IRC log for #maemo on 20080703

`00:00.05`	`*** join/#maemo sully_ (n=jsulliva@nmd.sbx05710.oaklaca.wayport.net)`
`00:00.32`	`lcuk`	`bex, try here http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/xchat-chinook-betas/`
`00:00.54`	`lcuk`	`no need for a repo, the one you were trying was an older version (i believe)`
`00:03.35`	`*** join/#maemo nemtersis (n=chatzill@78.180.195.141)`
`00:03.38`	`bex`	`thanks`
`00:03.41`	`bex`	`you rule!`
`00:04.28`	`*** join/#maemo UserID10T (n=toyotato@adsl-99-128-99-171.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net)`
`00:04.38`	`UserID10T`	`Hey everyone!`
`00:04.55`	`UserID10T`	`For those who aren't idle at least, heh.`
`00:04.59`	`crashanddie`	`hi`
`00:05.07`	`Raytray`	`Uhm, Hello.`
`00:05.48`	`UserID10T`	`Ray you act as if saying hi is weird.`
`00:06.12`	`UserID10T`	`Anywho, I had a question about editing a file on my n800, if anyone wouldn't mind helping me out.`
`00:06.32`	`Raytray`	`I suppose it is when you're saying hi to 273 people. If they all reply, well, that'd be some amount of spam.`
`00:06.52`	`UserID10T`	`Your logic rings true. I shake my fist at it.`
`00:07.06`	`crashanddie`	`yet, of the 273 users, only 3 are active`
`00:07.14`	`UserID10T`	`Go figure, huh crash?`
`00:07.20`	`*** join/#maemo blkno1 (n=jim@pool-70-20-48-243.man.east.verizon.net)`
`00:07.34`	`Raytray`	`True, which is why I struggled to say it hehe.`
`00:08.04`	`UserID10T`	`Well, on my n800, I was trying to edit /etc/mce/mce.ini, but after I hit save, emelfm2(my file manager) said "cannot create: permission denied"`
`00:08.08`	`UserID10T`	`Is this normal?`
`00:08.13`	`UserID10T`	`If not, what might be the cause?`
`00:08.29`	`Mousey`	`bad permissions`
`00:08.31`	`crashanddie`	`because it's ran as user`
`00:08.32`	`Mousey`	`i just fixed that`
`00:08.36`	`Mousey`	`chown is your friend`
`00:08.39`	`crashanddie`	`and user is not allowed to write there`
`00:08.53`	`UserID10T`	`I used sudo gainroot to try as root...`
`00:09.03`	`UserID10T`	`Does this not work, when using a file manager program?`
`00:09.15`	`crashanddie`	`dunno, I don't know your file manager`
`00:09.23`	`UserID10T`	`And also...if you've fixed it, what should I do? I am very very new to the tablets, and even newer to linux.`
`00:09.35`	`crashanddie`	`UserID10T, try this: sudo gainroot then vi /etc/mce/mce.ini`
`00:09.51`	`UserID10T`	`vi /etc/mce/mce.ini as a command in xterm?`
`00:09.51`	`crashanddie`	`UserID10T, once you're in vi, hit colon, then w, and enter`
`00:09.52`	`UserID10T`	`Right on.`
`00:11.38`	`UserID10T`	`I have no idea what that did but it was awesome doing it.`
`00:11.42`	`UserID10T`	`Hehe.`
`00:11.49`	`crashanddie`	`lol`
`00:11.58`	`crashanddie`	`basically, you opened the file as root, and wrote the content to disk`
`00:11.59`	`UserID10T`	`Now I should be able to access and edit the file?`
`00:12.07`	`crashanddie`	`in other words, as rood, you can access/write to it`
`00:12.17`	`crashanddie`	`root**`
`00:12.38`	`UserID10T`	`So simply using sudo gainroot is not effective?`
`00:12.44`	`crashanddie`	`it would seem`
`00:13.00`	`crashanddie`	`I'm guessing your file manager forks the child process as the normal user ID`
`00:13.22`	`crashanddie`	`UserID10T, there's 3 ways of doing what you want, well, 4 actually`
`00:13.40`	`UserID10T`	`How do I give my file manager root access?`
`00:13.53`	`crashanddie`	`UserID10T, first: edit the file using a root-enabled manner (vi, for example, or creating the file, and copy it over when being root)`
`00:14.01`	`UserID10T`	`As of this point, I am not comfortable enough with xterm to do it all from there.`
`00:14.13`	`crashanddie`	`second: give everyone write permission on the file (not very secure)`
`00:14.38`	`crashanddie`	`third: change the owner of the file, to the "normal user", so that you can edit it using your favo editor`
`00:15.02`	`crashanddie`	`and fourth would be to hard to explain`
`00:15.18`	`crashanddie`	`I would definitely encourage number 1`
`00:15.57`	`UserID10T`	`Well using method 1...how is vi used, or is there documentation on it's purpose and use?`
`00:16.14`	`UserID10T`	`Also, as I followed your direction, :w(enter) did a lot of...nothing?`
`00:16.26`	`crashanddie`	`it wrote the content of the file :)`
`00:16.28`	`crashanddie`	`try :q`
`00:18.02`	`UserID10T`	`Doh I accidentally ran vi by itself...`
`00:18.14`	`crashanddie`	`not a problem`
`00:18.14`	`crashanddie`	`:q`
`00:18.16`	`crashanddie`	`will quit`
`00:18.27`	`UserID10T`	`did`
`00:18.28`	`UserID10T`	`Heh`
`00:18.41`	`crashanddie`	`basic run through, vi filename`
`00:18.43`	`crashanddie`	`opens filename`
`00:19.05`	`crashanddie`	`hitting "i" (once or twice, can't remember) will put you in insert mode, so you can add stuff`
`00:19.12`	`crashanddie`	`to exit insert mode, hit esc`
`00:19.26`	`UserID10T`	`I see how it works now...`
`00:19.33`	`crashanddie`	`when you're in command mode, type :wq to save and quit`
`00:19.46`	`crashanddie`	`:q! to force quit without saving (if you modified)`
`00:19.49`	`UserID10T`	`I see! so i to edit, then :w to save`
`00:19.54`	`UserID10T`	`:q to quit`
`00:19.56`	`UserID10T`	`nods`
`00:20.07`	`crashanddie`	`double tap d to delete a line`
`00:20.09`	`crashanddie`	`etc`
`00:21.09`	`derf`	`And most important, u to undo.`
`00:21.29`	`derf`	`For when you type something in command mode when you thought you were in insert mode and crazy things start happening.`
`00:22.11`	`UserID10T`	`hmmmm I went into insert mode...and I'm done editing.`
`00:22.17`	`Veggen`	`esc`
`00:22.19`	`qgil`	`Ready for http://tllts.org/`
`00:22.19`	`UserID10T`	`How do I exit insert mode to :w?`
`00:22.29`	`crashanddie`	`(crashanddie) to exit insert mode, hit esc`
`00:22.29`	`qgil`	`damn, is 3:22am in Helsinki!`
`00:22.38`	`Veggen`	`2:22 in Bergen.`
`00:22.56`	`UserID10T`	`Hooray, let's see if it works.`
`00:22.57`	`Veggen`	`And I just got home from an evening trip to a mountain.`
`00:22.58`	`wiza`	`it's 3:22am in Pori!`
`00:22.59`	`wiza`	`:d`
`00:23.16`	`*** join/#maemo sully_ (n=jsulliva@nmd.sbx05710.oaklaca.wayport.net)`
`00:23.20`	`crashanddie`	`anyway`
`00:23.26`	`crashanddie`	`like some people pointed out`
`00:23.27`	`crashanddie`	`way too late`
`00:23.31`	`wiza`	`and I'm moving 700 meg sql dumps`
`00:23.35`	`crashanddie`	`I'm heading out, crashing to bed`
`00:23.35`	`crashanddie`	`cheers`
`00:23.47`	`wiza`	`I'm thinking about lunch break...`
`00:23.48`	`UserID10T`	`Thank you crash!`
`00:23.53`	`crashanddie`	`np`
`00:23.55`	`UserID10T`	`and everyone who gave me amazing info!`
`00:24.02`	`UserID10T`	`7:23 here in Austin,Texas`
`00:24.08`	`crashanddie`	`btw, you can actually put "vi user" on your CV :p`
`00:24.19`	`UserID10T`	`CV?`
`00:24.24`	`crashanddie`	`resume`
`00:24.31`	`UserID10T`	`Oh. lol`
`00:24.52`	`wiza`	`ffs mysql dump compatibility error`
`00:25.00`	`UserID10T`	`It worked <3`
`00:25.46`	`crashanddie`	`wiza, reminds me when I worked for the french national scientific research center, I bought 3 gigs of ram for my laptop cuz I had to run a 2gig+ SQL database`
`00:26.04`	`*** join/#maemo \|penguinbait\| (n=kvirc@c-68-62-90-22.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)`
`00:26.19`	`wiza`	`I'm just trying to get the freaking databases copied from production server to staging server`
`00:26.47`	`crashanddie`	`add drop table and data structure`
`00:28.09`	`wiza`	`they are there, but production is running(of course) newer mysql`
`00:28.12`	`wiza`	`ffs`
`00:28.21`	`wiza`	`this is so not in my job description`
`00:29.17`	`wiza`	`maybe compatible=mysql40 will fix it`
`00:29.40`	`wiza`	`or I'm going home and cry myself to sleep with 18yo glennfiddich`
`00:30.10`	`wiza`	`-n`
`00:30.25`	`qgil`	`fyi 1 one min Ihttp://tllts.org/ starts and I have been invited tot talk about Maemo and stuff`
`00:30.56`	`qgil`	`"see you" there, switching off here for concentration`
`00:30.59`	`*** part/#maemo qgil (n=qgil@a88-112-27-165.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`00:31.25`	`\|penguinbait\|`	`qgil - wow, never seen you in person :)`
`00:31.33`	`\|penguinbait\|`	`sort of`
`00:32.01`	`*** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com)`
`00:34.12`	`UserID10T`	`So I've heard there was an issue with the softpoweroff feature?`
`00:34.19`	`UserID10T`	`For the n800`
`00:34.29`	`UserID10T`	`well, for n800/810`
`00:42.17`	`*** join/#maemo sully__ (n=jsulliva@nmd.sbx05710.oaklaca.wayport.net)`
`00:43.00`	`*** join/#maemo sin18 (n=sin18@pool-71-180-214-243.tampfl.fios.verizon.net)`
`00:45.15`	`Proteous`	`I haven't heard that`
`00:45.23`	`*** join/#maemo zumbi (n=zumbi@193.132.219.87.dynamic.jazztel.es)`
`00:45.33`	`Proteous`	`I did hear my cat fart though`
`00:45.50`	`UserID10T`	`That's pretty gross. Did you shoo the cat, or revel in the glory?`
`00:46.08`	`Proteous`	`no reveling here`
`00:46.23`	`UserID10T`	`Well...I set softpoweroff to short power press...and it blacks the screen out.`
`00:46.32`	`UserID10T`	`Buuuuuuut, you can press the screen and bring it back.`
`00:46.33`	`bex`	`is there a car charger i can buy for my n800?`
`00:46.38`	`UserID10T`	`Yes`
`00:47.27`	`Proteous`	`is it plugged in while you try this?`
`00:47.36`	`UserID10T`	`Nope.`
`00:48.03`	`UserID10T`	`I found instructions for modifying /etc/mce/mce.ini to enable softpoweroff...but when I use it, it doesn't STAY in softpoweroff.`
`00:48.19`	`UserID10T`	`I especially want this to save power when not using it, and disabling wifi automatically.`
`00:48.23`	`Proteous`	`I don't know what softpoweroff does`
`00:48.37`	`Proteous`	`you can set the wifi timeout to something short`
`00:48.45`	`UserID10T`	`it's SUPPOSED to lock the keys, dim screen, and drop wifi automatically`
`00:48.50`	`UserID10T`	`And reconnect wifi upon return`
`00:49.03`	`UserID10T`	`Pretty slick if you ask me.`
`00:49.59`	`*** join/#maemo greentux_ (n=lemke@Z6cd0.z.pppool.de)`
`00:51.27`	`Proteous`	`sounds interesting`
`00:51.30`	`*** join/#maemo harry (n=kcome@58.213.221.238)`
`00:52.13`	`whooper`	`kewl`
`00:52.39`	`*** join/#maemo behdad (n=behdad@CPE001217b19226-CM0012c9c84bc4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`00:53.27`	`Proteous`	`https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2306`
`00:55.21`	`*** join/#maemo Capn_Fish (n=Capn_Fis@ktaylor.dsl.visi.com)`
`00:56.22`	`bex`	`hmm do you think i could use my nokia cell phone charger for my n800?`
`00:56.44`	`Proteous`	`you need to check to mA rating`
`00:56.44`	`bex`	`car charger, that is`
`00:57.15`	`lcuk`	`i use my gfs older home charger`
`00:57.18`	`UserID10T`	`If you want one, and want it now...let me give you the specs for the power.`
`00:57.23`	`Proteous`	`if it outputs over 890mA`
`00:57.25`	`lcuk`	`and ive got a single AA charger`
`00:57.28`	`Proteous`	`at 5v then it is okay`
`00:57.55`	`lcuk`	`Proteous, my gfs is nokia but not over 890, i think its 600 but cant b certain`
`00:57.56`	`bex`	`lemme see which charger i have`
`00:58.58`	`UserID10T`	`Here is a cheap cheap cheap charger`
`00:59.00`	`UserID10T`	`For the care`
`00:59.01`	`UserID10T`	`car*`
`00:59.02`	`UserID10T`	`http://www.topsellings.com/en/nokia-n800-car-charger-p2444.html`
`00:59.07`	`UserID10T`	`2 bucks????`
`01:00.33`	`Proteous`	`I wouldn't plug my $350 device into a $2 device killer`
`01:00.47`	`UserID10T`	`I would. Then again I'm dumb.`
`01:00.52`	`UserID10T`	`Plus paid 190 for mine.`
`01:01.03`	`UserID10T`	`I HAD one at 150, but the deal fell through :(`
`01:01.42`	`*** join/#maemo smackpotat1 (n=user@os-dsl-0191.bmts.com)`
`01:03.07`	`*** join/#maemo Raytray (n=raytray@unaffiliated/raytray)`
`01:03.18`	`UserID10T`	`http://www.nokiausa.com/link?cid=EDITORIAL_184765`
`01:03.24`	`UserID10T`	`This is the Nokia brand charger.`
`01:03.40`	`UserID10T`	`It does NOT clearly state it is for the n800, but is the only one with the correct adapter.`
`01:05.59`	`bex`	`hmm i cannot find my car charger anyways`
`01:06.21`	`UserID10T`	`I see.`
`01:08.42`	`*** join/#maemo mardi__ (n=mardi_@host81-146-44-69.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net)`
`01:11.56`	`*** join/#maemo RobW (n=RobW@CPE001310484031-CM00140459ab10.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`01:23.02`	`whooper`	`quit "Boooooring!"`
`01:28.24`	`*** join/#maemo seraph1 (n=Ernesto@200-71-150-172.static.telcel.net.ve)`
`01:33.46`	`*** part/#maemo smackpotat1 (n=user@os-dsl-0191.bmts.com)`
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`01:48.59`	`*** join/#maemo m-c (n=mmm@ubuntu/member/desertc)`
`01:49.11`	`UserID10T`	`Welcome everyone who joined in the last 5 mins.`
`01:49.22`	`UserID10T`	`Anyone before that, forget you.`
`01:49.30`	`Raytray`	`:(`
`01:49.34`	`UserID10T`	`LOL RAY`
`01:49.38`	`UserID10T`	`Ok ok, Ray too.`
`01:49.41`	`UserID10T`	`Welcome back Ray.`
`01:52.33`	`*** join/#maemo gentooer (n=asdfsf@pool-72-90-161-236.nwrknj.east.verizon.net)`
`01:53.42`	`*** join/#maemo vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim)`
`01:59.49`	`*** join/#maemo Capn_Fish (n=Capn_Fis@ktaylor.dsl.visi.com)`
`01:59.57`	`Capn_Fish`	`johnx: You here?`
`02:01.02`	`*** join/#maemo corq (n=MI5@195.194.8.67.cfl.res.rr.com)`
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`02:04.19`	`m-c`	`penguinbait here?`
`02:04.46`	`Proteous`	`I got my $8.00 bluetooth keyboard to pair with my n810`
`02:04.57`	`Proteous`	`wewt`
`02:05.01`	`m-c`	`waaaaaaht?`
`02:05.05`	`m-c`	`wants.`
`02:05.13`	`m-c`	`I just paid $80 for one.`
`02:05.36`	`Raytray`	`Holy crap where did you find that keyboard?`
`02:05.51`	`Proteous`	`http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=BT-KB01B-DEU-R&cat=KYB`
`02:06.01`	`Proteous`	`cheap-o referb german laybout`
`02:06.03`	`Proteous`	`layout`
`02:06.10`	`Proteous`	`although it's not that much different'`
`02:06.36`	`Proteous`	`going to try to hack it into a NES gamepad to play NES games on my n810`
`02:06.38`	`*** join/#maemo vcgomes (n=Vinicius@189.70.25.218)`
`02:07.04`	`Proteous`	`I was wrong, it's just $6.00 plus shipping`
`02:08.43`	`Capn_Fish`	`Why don't you just use the N810's KB to play NES games?`
`02:08.50`	`Capn_Fish`	`Too cramped?`
`02:09.19`	`Proteous`	`the dpad sucks for games`
`02:09.26`	`\|penguinbait\|`	`I play quake2 with my logitech rublepad :)`
`02:09.32`	`Proteous`	`:)`
`02:09.39`	`Capn_Fish`	`I'd be inclined to agree. What about using like wasd?`
`02:09.39`	`\|penguinbait\|`	`usb cordless`
`02:09.44`	`Proteous`	`I am trying to get a gamepad that will fit in my pocket`
`02:10.00`	`\|penguinbait\|`	`usb?`
`02:10.38`	`Proteous`	`the fun part is the project, not so much the result`
`02:10.43`	`Proteous`	`although that is an added bonus`
`02:11.21`	`\|penguinbait\|`	`I have a bgp100 bt gamepad, but it was responsive enough`
`02:11.27`	`*** join/#maemo TPC (n=andreas@pdpc/supporter/student/TPC)`
`02:11.56`	`Proteous`	`wasn't?`
`02:12.04`	`\|penguinbait\|`	`hehe`
`02:12.06`	`\|penguinbait\|`	`uh yeah`
`02:12.17`	`\|penguinbait\|`	`doh`
`02:15.41`	`*** join/#maemo Tuco (n=Y@unaffiliated/tuco)`
`02:16.29`	`*** join/#maemo bradd (n=bradd@d57-50-194.home.cgocable.net)`
`02:16.40`	`m-c`	`\|penguinbait\|: Hey, thanks for posting that article on a-droid - I just got it working on my n800 - nice to see it`
`02:19.08`	`m-c`	`Proteous: Do you have that keyboard now, or did you just order it?`
`02:20.25`	`Proteous`	`I orderd it on sunday, I have it now, and successufly paired it with my n810`
`02:20.46`	`Proteous`	`now it's all take apart :P`
`02:20.57`	`m-c`	`so paired up no problemo ?`
`02:20.59`	`Proteous`	`seems the board is totaly small enough to fit in a NES controler`
`02:21.20`	`Proteous`	`m-c: there were no instructions, so I have to do some googling to figure out what to do`
`02:21.31`	`Proteous`	`but yeah, once I figured out what to do I didn't have a problem`
`02:21.42`	`m-c`	`suggests posting HOWTO to the ITT Forum. ;)`
`02:22.11`	`Proteous`	`probably a good idea`
`02:22.20`	`m-c`	`I am tempted to buy a stack of them, except that I already have this $80 apple one`
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`03:01.10`	`lcuk`	`gnite maemo`
`03:02.30`	`johnx`	`'night lcuk`
`03:04.21`	`*** part/#maemo jegp (n=jegp@200.26.178.201)`
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`03:40.10`	`clijunkie`	`Hello all. I'm messing with my n810 and would like to know if there is a "hook"bto toggle the light from the cli, like you can with a thinkpad.`
`03:41.18`	`clijunkie`	`For my thinkpad I would use /proc/acpi/ibm/light`
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`05:11.43`	`jitu3485`	`Hi, on my system (ubuntu gusty) when i added vm.mmap_min_addr=4096, to install CHINOOK, it hanged and now refusing to boot`
`05:11.57`	`jitu3485`	`how to resolve this?`
`05:12.25`	`qwerty12`	`Can you use single user/recovery mode? It's on the grub menu.`
`05:14.58`	`jitu3485`	`qwerty12, i tried that but it is also not throwing me on prompt`
`05:15.31`	`qwerty12`	`Boot up the ubuntu install cd and mount the drive and edit the sysctl.conf and umount and reboot again.`
`05:21.43`	`RST38h`	`qwerty: moo`
`05:21.55`	`qwerty12`	`baa, hi :)`
`05:23.18`	`jitu3485`	`qwerty12, thanks`
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`05:29.18`	`RST38h`	`is it normal that canola starts for longer than 1 minute on Diablo?`
`05:29.34`	`qwerty12`	`Yes, python is throwing a hissy fit about modules it cannot find.`
`05:30.48`	`RST38h`	`urgh :( any way to fix it?`
`05:31.08`	`qwerty12`	`Use the python from chinook extras :/`
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`05:31.39`	`qwerty12`	`If you use canola -vvv, you may be able to spot the modules and extract them manually instead.`
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`05:33.53`	`RST38h`	`is using python from chinook extras afaik`
`05:34.21`	`RST38h`	`Do I run canola -vvv once, from command line?`
`05:35.01`	`qwerty12`	`Yeah, you may want to pipe the output to a file to see the problem. Also pythonlauncher helps with canola quite a bit.`
`05:36.15`	`RST38h`	`1215063515.1733 DEBUG manager:114:get_classes() looking for classes with filter 'Model/Multitask'`
`05:36.40`	`RST38h`	`Are these lines the sign of a problem?`
`05:37.27`	`RST38h`	`It actually looks to be legitimate Canola attempts to look for plugins`
`05:37.55`	`qwerty12`	`Hmm,probably sounds like it. It won't be modules if you are using chinook python.`
`05:38.13`	`RST38h`	`Lemme try ptyhonlauncher then`
`05:42.40`	`jitu3485`	`qwerty12, i booted from live cd, mounted filesystem,changed file and rebooted but still system is not booting.`
`05:43.15`	`qwerty12`	`Are you sure that you haven't made any other change? Did you put vdso=0 in the sysctl as well?`
`05:45.02`	`jitu3485`	`qwerty12, yes and i did nothing aprt from that`
`05:45.33`	`jitu3485`	`:%s/aprt/apart`
`05:45.39`	`qwerty12`	`The vdso is the thing that is probably causing your problem. Another person here had a problem with vdso=0 in sysctl.`
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`05:46.25`	`RST38h`	`Hey-who-the-hell-changed-personal-launcher-icon?!? =)`
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`05:58.42`	`Navi`	`O_O`
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`05:59.52`	`Navi`	`you know`
`06:00.04`	`Navi`	`I haven't been getting update warnings`
`06:01.35`	`Navi`	`Ugh`
`06:01.38`	`Navi`	`that new icon is gross`
`06:02.10`	`Navi`	`Well, not totally gross`
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`06:02.24`	`Navi`	`The single thing the new one has over the old one is the dropshadow`
`06:05.37`	`RST38h`	`I definitely want the old icon back though`
`06:05.50`	`qwerty12`	`Extract it from the old deb on garage.`
`06:05.57`	`timelyx`	`heh`
`06:06.06`	`RST38h`	`can we have it as an option in the current deb? =)`
`06:06.50`	`qwerty12`	`You could repack the deb and update the md5sum but I've got homework to do >.>`
`06:07.04`	`timelyx`	`i don't think it's in app-mgr`
`06:07.11`	`timelyx`	`it should be in some theme thing`
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`06:07.31`	`qwerty12`	`It's a custom icon provided by the app :)`
`06:07.42`	`timelyx`	`really?`
`06:07.45`	`qwerty12`	`Actually, I don't know with the latest version`
`06:07.51`	`timelyx`	`http://mxr.maemo.org/garage/source/hildon-app-mgr/`
`06:07.53`	`timelyx`	`i couldn't find it`
`06:08.19`	`qwerty12`	`We were talking about the personal launcher :)`
`06:08.38`	`jitu3485`	`qwerty12, i removed vm.vsdo_enabled from /etc/sysctl.conf also, and system is booting smmothly now thanks`
`06:08.51`	`timelyx`	`sorry, all i saw was "update warnings" i assumed you meant the app update icon :)`
`06:09.06`	`qwerty12`	`:)`
`06:09.57`	`qwerty12`	`jitu3485, You can add vdso=0 to grub. Seems to work better for some people (just don't add it onto the default boot option, make a new boot entry first)`
`06:10.30`	`RST38h`	`Looks like memory usage is much higher in Maemo`
`06:10.50`	`RST38h`	`Modest and Browserd eat up a lot of memory, whatever timeless says`
`06:11.20`	`qwerty12`	`I disabled the modest daemon as I never use it and I can agree with you for browserd`
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`06:14.58`	`RST38h`	`qwerty: The problem is that we have to make timeless agree...`
`06:15.15`	`qwerty12`	`gets the gun ready, agreed yet? :P`
`06:17.41`	`RST38h`	`yyeeaaaaa!`
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`06:23.01`	`bex`	`is there an about option on maemo? i could have sworn i saw it`
`06:24.09`	`hrw`	`morning`
`06:24.35`	`hrw`	`guys: is there any text editor with hildon interface?`
`06:25.09`	`hrw`	`simple gedit like even`
`06:25.32`	`qwerty12`	`leafpad was hildonised`
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`06:28.53`	`ds3`	`'`
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`06:38.20`	`hrw`	`qwerty12: but not in extras?`
`06:38.30`	`qwerty12`	`no`
`06:38.57`	`qwerty12`	`RST38h, I see what you mean about the icon :/`
`06:40.50`	`timelyx`	`RST38h: browserd shouldn't really cost significantly more than browser did in chinook`
`06:43.04`	`qwerty12`	`timelyx, mind pausing time for me?`
`06:43.19`	`timelyx`	`sorry, not yet implemented`
`06:43.26`	`qwerty12`	`:(`
`06:44.53`	`Jaffa`	`Mirbubgm akk`
`06:44.59`	`Jaffa`	`Morning, all even`
`06:45.35`	`qwerty12`	`Jaffa, aas Mirbubgm? !!!! dsfj jkaskads`
`06:45.59`	`qwerty12`	`Morning :)`
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`06:54.50`	`timelyx`	`http://www.woot.com/Blog/Archive.aspx?StartDate=3/2/2008`
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`07:44.48`	`eichi__`	`good morning`
`07:45.14`	`eichi__`	`if i boot from mmc i cant use the usb client mode without problem?`
`07:46.01`	`hrw`	`not for usb-storage mode`
`07:46.34`	`eichi__`	`okay, thats what i mean`
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`08:37.52`	`timelyx`	`andre__: so,... could we figure out a plan for garage in bugs.maemo?`
`08:38.04`	`timelyx`	`esp, i'd love to move browser-extras into bugs.maemo`
`08:38.15`	`timelyx`	`then a certain bug could just be moved :)`
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`08:41.39`	`disq`	`so who's coming to guadec this year?`
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`08:44.28`	`timelyx`	`i think it's basically figuring out a timeline for upgrading bugzilla to current`
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`08:51.27`	`eichi__`	`something like mount -o /mnt/initfs/ rw so remount initfs rw?`
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`08:56.57`	`florian`	`good morning`
`08:57.11`	`disq`	`morning`
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`08:58.20`	`__t`	`good moin`
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`09:07.28`	`florian`	`hi __t`
`09:07.45`	`__t`	`hi florian`
`09:12.59`	`__t`	`florian: do you know about maemo developers arround berlin?`
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`09:14.01`	`florian`	`__t: rschuster (not here right now) does is located there iirc`
`09:14.54`	`florian`	`__t: define "around", since maemo is worldwide thingy Siegen might count as well ;)`
`09:15.45`	`__t`	`florian: arround as in "up for a beer in the evening" ;-) so it depends on you`
`09:17.16`	`florian`	`__t: heh, well might be a little bit far for a beer, but a good idea... I happen to be there sometimes.`
`09:18.10`	`__t`	`I guess in september you will come?`
`09:20.10`	`__t`	`florian: https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_summit_2008`
`09:20.55`	`florian`	`__t: quite likely, yes :)`
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`09:39.34`	`aquatix`	`hm, how actively is telepathy being worked on?`
`09:39.44`	`aquatix`	`packages for maemo are at least half a year old`
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`10:07.38`	`lcuk`	`will be parking liqbase in the garage tonight. gulp`
`10:08.04`	`X-Fade`	`lcuk: Great!`
`10:08.34`	`X-Fade`	`I know that is a big step for you, thanks for doing that!`
`10:10.42`	`lcuk`	`its not there yet (i only decided on the drive in this morning). if some devs could post a few words in the iTT thread about their first time it might make me feel a bit better`
`10:10.46`	`*** join/#maemo alex-weej (n=alex@cpc1-darl2-0-0-cust537.midd.cable.ntl.com)`
`10:14.26`	`lcuk`	`gets back to work`
`10:14.28`	`aquatix`	`is watching lcuk's youtube movie`
`10:14.31`	`aquatix`	`looks great`
`10:14.54`	`aquatix`	`what exactly is it?`
`10:14.59`	`aquatix`	`a graphics lib?`
`10:15.44`	`aquatix`	`how cool, those drawings`
`10:16.00`	`aquatix`	`dang, should've had an n810 with this app years ago`
`10:16.52`	`crashanddie`	`lcuk, about their first time ?`
`10:17.03`	`aquatix`	`g`
`10:23.03`	`*** join/#maemo red-zack (n=mk@p5085FAB9.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`10:24.50`	`crashanddie`	`what the hell is the midgard project ?`
`10:27.01`	`wiza`	`cms`
`10:28.03`	`pupnik`	`i like how lcuk's app handles the large graphics file and doesn't have problems scrolling through it`
`10:30.05`	`aquatix`	`yeah`
`10:30.09`	`aquatix`	`it's damn smooth`
`10:30.21`	`aquatix`	`eagerly awaits .deb`
`10:34.09`	`pupnik`	`didn't he post the binary a while back?`
`10:34.25`	`pupnik`	`http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21259`
`10:34.52`	`pupnik`	`oh 'no deb yet'`
`10:36.12`	`hellwolf`	`How could I use bluetooth to access N800's camera remotely`
`10:36.33`	`*** join/#maemo wazd (n=az@195.91.167.225)`
`10:36.43`	`wazd`	`Lo there :)`
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`10:37.58`	`wazd`	`Does anybody knows, is there an ICQ fix for tablets? pidgin have updatet it's lib so on Desktop it works fine but I haven't heard about tablet version :(`
`10:38.55`	`minti_`	`hi hw can i use libsofia-tools ? can i use it to test sofsip application ?`
`10:40.07`	`aquatix`	`wazd: doesn't it work on your tablet anymore?`
`10:40.27`	`trickie`	`aquatix: they started blocking non-icq clients`
`10:40.33`	`aquatix`	`i know`
`10:40.35`	`trickie`	`or changed something in the proto`
`10:40.41`	`aquatix`	`but some older versions of libpurple still work`
`10:40.46`	`*** join/#maemo borism (n=boris@195-50-204-144-dsl.krw.estpak.ee)`
`10:41.13`	`aquatix`	`trickie: the latest libpurple sends the newest client version strings and such`
`10:41.38`	`*** join/#maemo sergio_ (n=sergio@fanzine.igalia.com)`
`10:41.50`	`hrw`	`re`
`10:42.12`	`trickie`	`yeah i don't use it on the tablet... just saw people have been having issues`
`10:42.20`	`trickie`	`hrw: hi`
`10:42.44`	`wazd`	`aquatix: ICQ released some weird opdate 2 days ago, that bricked all side-clients (all except ICQ6 itself)`
`10:43.23`	`aquatix`	`wazd: jups, my pidgin doesn't work anymore indeed [don't have 2.4.3 yet], but bitlbee still works :)`
`10:43.27`	`wazd`	`Most have released urgent updates`
`10:43.35`	`pupnik`	`I banned ICQ client from my last workplace.`
`10:43.45`	`aquatix`	`and i read remarks about libpurple 2.1.2 or something still logging in`
`10:44.20`	`aquatix`	`hence my question, as telepathy haze uses an older libpurple on maemo yet`
`10:44.21`	`wazd`	`Well, I would like to not use ICQ but my contacts are not sharing this point with me :)`
`10:44.35`	`aquatix`	`most of my contacts are msn...`
`10:44.38`	`aquatix`	`even more evil`
`10:45.00`	`wazd`	`I think Russia is the only country that still uses ICQ :)`
`10:46.24`	`minti_`	`<PROTECTED>`
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`11:04.21`	`GeneralAntilles`	`is listening to the tllts from this morning.`
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`11:07.58`	`pupnik`	`the Quim interview?`
`11:08.02`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Yeah`
`11:08.22`	`X-Fade`	`Sound quality is a bit bad, but it is doable.`
`11:08.54`	`hrw`	`wazd: will omweather get option 'show city from gps as default'?`
`11:09.09`	`crashanddie`	`GeneralAntilles, I might have found something amazing`
`11:09.21`	`GeneralAntilles`	`crashanddie, I was poking you to find out whether this was your radio show. :P`
`11:09.34`	`crashanddie`	`ah, no lol`
`11:09.48`	`*** join/#maemo atul (n=qvantel@61.16.248.242)`
`11:10.16`	`crashanddie`	`GeneralAntilles, There seems to be a promotional offer from RyanAir. I'm on their website right now, flying from Stansted to Berlin, september 18 to 20, Â£20 (tax included, the flights are free, only tax)`
`11:10.33`	`hrw`	`crashanddie: nice price`
`11:10.45`	`hrw`	`has to pay for bus Szczecin<>Berlin`
`11:11.34`	`atul`	`My Xephyr is running and form scratchbox I did export display and I start dbus daemon but in Xephyr it wont display anythig why ?`
`11:11.53`	`crashanddie`	`atul, my balls ain't made of crystal, sorry`
`11:12.16`	`crashanddie`	`atul, mind posting some error messages, or the output of af-sb-init.sh start`
`11:12.27`	`atul`	"/usr/bin/af-sb-init.sh: line 1: export: `/usr/bin/dbus-daemon:': not a valid identifie"
`11:12.34`	`atul`	`this Error message I got`
`11:13.34`	`crashanddie`	`atul, dbus-daemon --system`
`11:14.21`	`atul`	`crashanddie: so what to do ? to fix this problem ? Any Idea ? this is reported but in maemo`
`11:14.28`	`crashanddie`	`atul, dbus-daemon --system`
`11:17.15`	`lardman`	`What's the quickest way of doing an array comparison in C?`
`11:17.33`	`zap`	`memcmp`
`11:17.48`	`crashanddie`	`only works if it's the same type though`
`11:17.57`	`lardman`	`ah yes, it is. Good stuff`
`11:17.58`	`zap`	`provided your array doesnt have holes`
`11:18.08`	`hrw`	`sent first not polite help mail to maemo-devs..`
`11:18.09`	`lardman`	`nah, will be same size & type`
`11:18.35`	`lardman`	`awaits hrw's impolite help mail with baited breath :)`
`11:18.46`	`zap`	`if array elements are 3 bytes. it wont work`
`11:18.54`	`hrw`	`lardman: it is not so hard one`
`11:19.16`	`lardman`	`zap: how do you mean?`
`11:19.40`	`hrw`	`lardman: padding to 4bytes`
`11:19.43`	`lcuk`	`how do i apply for tickets - thers no mail address or site on the sponsorship thingy`
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`11:20.04`	`X-Fade`	`lcuk: We are testing it now, will be available today..`
`11:20.11`	`lardman`	`Ah ok, not an issue, the data will be chars`
`11:20.21`	`lcuk`	`:) thx x-fade`
`11:20.38`	`lcuk`	`is still shitting bricks`
`11:20.39`	`zap`	`for chars memcmp is always the best`
`11:20.46`	`aquatix`	`lcuk: why?`
`11:21.00`	`aquatix`	`because you're putting a first version of something awesome online? ;)`
`11:21.37`	`lcuk`	`well if you had seen me last time i stood up in front of people you would know, but what i learnt after was why im trying again`
`11:21.44`	`lardman`	`zap: cheers (am converting MATLAB code to C)`
`11:22.02`	`lcuk`	`aquatix, its everything :) ty for compliment`
`11:23.25`	`florian`	`lardman: maybe start with converting matlab to octave ;)`
`11:23.56`	`zap`	`:)`
`11:23.58`	`lardman`	`florian: yeah, that's not enough of a challenge though :)`
`11:24.31`	`aquatix`	`lcuk: seriously looking forward to playing with it`
`11:24.53`	`aquatix`	`lcuk: i always get sahara-mouthed when in front of people too ;)`
`11:26.11`	`lardman`	`hrw: Must be quite some lag on the list, I've still not seen your email`
`11:26.23`	`lardman`	`or lag on my email server of course`
`11:26.33`	`wiza`	`lardman: so how is the dsp stuff for a2dp coming? =)`
`11:26.56`	`lardman`	`wiza: oh yeah, I've just finished the tweaks, need to compile and see if it runs`
`11:27.49`	`lardman`	`wiza: It was running, but too slowly, so I've changed the central (called lots of times) fn. to use DSP instriniscs and Q15 arithmetic`
`11:28.18`	`hrw`	`lardman: nevermind`
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`11:29.00`	`wiza`	`lardman: I recall that it was slow`
`11:29.40`	`lardman`	`wiza: I'll compile it at lunch time and push the changes, then I imagine there'll be some fixing to do before it actually works`
`11:31.19`	`wiza`	`no hurry :D`
`11:32.22`	`lardman`	`wiza: I'd like to get it finished and get on with other things :)`
`11:33.14`	`wiza`	`:p`
`11:35.15`	`RST38h`	`yawn`
`11:35.24`	`johnx`	`so much cool software getting released these days :)`
`11:35.55`	`RST38h`	`johnx: Like Modest?`
`11:36.17`	`johnx`	`like lardman's sbc-on-dsp and lcuk's liqbase`
`11:36.20`	`aquatix`	`anybody knows whether telepathy is frequently updated? the latest maemo packages are over 6 months old`
`11:36.39`	`aquatix`	`has a buglet in modest btw`
`11:36.42`	`RST38h`	`johnx: They finally released? =)!!!`
`11:36.51`	`hrw`	`aquatix: as they are in system image they will probably not be updated`
`11:36.56`	`aquatix`	`every time i open the window, the left list is a bit wider`
`11:37.00`	`johnx`	`"getting released" as in "in the process" :)`
`11:37.13`	`RST38h`	`ah`
`11:37.14`	`aquatix`	`hrw: hm, i installed collabora haze`
`11:37.16`	`crashanddie`	`say guys`
`11:37.20`	`RST38h`	`getting being released then =)`
`11:37.22`	`lardman`	`yeah, WIP is more like it :)`
`11:37.29`	`johnx`	`installed the modest beta for chinook`
`11:37.31`	`crashanddie`	`who should I talk to if I want to point out a cheap flight service ? (for Maemo Summit)`
`11:37.33`	`johnx`	`hasn't screwed up on me yet`
`11:37.50`	`RST38h`	`crash: A PR company?`
`11:38.12`	`aquatix`	`johnx: on diablo?`
`11:38.17`	`johnx`	`yeah`
`11:38.26`	`RST38h`	`maybe this is what I have to do...`
`11:38.27`	`aquatix`	`might try that too`
`11:38.32`	`crashanddie`	`RST38h, eh ?`
`11:38.43`	`johnx`	`I had to let it overwrite a file as the packaging is done differently`
`11:38.48`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Hopefully the beta repo will be updated for Diablo soon.`
`11:38.52`	`johnx`	`and don't come crying to me if it eats all your mail or something`
`11:39.08`	`aquatix`	`uses imaps`
`11:39.16`	`aquatix`	`and used the beta on chinook`
`11:39.17`	`johnx`	`me too, just sayin :)`
`11:39.22`	`aquatix`	`heh, fair enough`
`11:39.36`	`johnx`	`also, used a2dp all day today in canola`
`11:39.53`	`johnx`	`had maybe about 10 skips in 2 hours`
`11:39.58`	`lardman`	`johnx: have you got it working again for you?`
`11:40.02`	`johnx`	`yeah`
`11:40.11`	`lardman`	`what was the problem?`
`11:40.17`	`johnx`	`it was the same error you posted to maemo-developers`
`11:40.22`	`johnx`	`I don't know :/`
`11:40.23`	`lardman`	`ah ok`
`11:40.24`	`*** part/#maemo zap (n=Zap@48.gprs-nat.mtsnet.ru)`
`11:40.29`	`johnx`	`and it went away after a power cycle on my headphones and tablet`
`11:40.30`	`*** join/#maemo rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@gtsgw.ttc.cz)`
`11:40.32`	`lardman`	`reboot :)`
`11:40.37`	`johnx`	`sometimes my headphones do tend to crash O_o`
`11:40.43`	`crashanddie`	`sorry`
`11:40.54`	`crashanddie`	`promise, I'll ask 'em to stop`
`11:40.58`	`johnx`	`you crashed my headphones?`
`11:41.03`	`aquatix`	`GeneralAntilles: the modest one?`
`11:41.12`	`aquatix`	`GeneralAntilles: or for telepathy?`
`11:41.13`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Yes`
`11:41.16`	`GeneralAntilles`	`er, Modest`
`11:41.19`	`aquatix`	`kk`
`11:41.24`	`GeneralAntilles`	`You guys might try the svn for Modest`
`11:41.31`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Supposedly a lot has been at least partially fixed.`
`11:41.34`	`johnx`	`ah, that's a good idea`
`11:41.36`	`aquatix`	`GeneralAntilles: you recommended collabora to me right?`
`11:41.40`	`aquatix`	`GeneralAntilles: cool`
`11:41.47`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Yeah, I don't follow Telepathy at all, though.`
`11:41.53`	`aquatix`	`ok`
`11:42.08`	`aquatix`	`was wondering when they where going to update again`
`11:42.26`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Robot101, if anybody, would be the one to ask.`
`11:42.28`	`aquatix`	`a diablo modest weekly would be cool indeed :)`
`11:42.35`	`aquatix`	`Robot101: ping ;)`
`11:42.39`	`RST38h`	`wonders when Pidgin is going to get upgraded...`
`11:42.42`	`aquatix`	`[sorry for nagging]`
`11:43.15`	`Robot101`	`aquatix: hola`
`11:43.29`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Somebody who sucks less than Navi and qwerty12 needs to get the MicroB svn compiled.`
`11:43.32`	`johnx`	`good workout for scratchbox`
`11:43.32`	`johnx`	`as soon as I find libosso-abook-dev`
`11:43.35`	`aquatix`	`Robot101: i was wondering whether telepathy receives updates`
`11:43.49`	`aquatix`	`GeneralAntilles: g`
`11:43.56`	`RST38h`	`GA: BTW, I did thorough checking of browserd yesterday`
`11:44.02`	`aquatix`	`GeneralAntilles: is that with newer gecko btw?`
`11:44.05`	`Robot101`	`aquatix: yes, there's a lot of development, but do you specifically mean packages for diablo :)`
`11:44.11`	`*** join/#maemo mazzen (n=mortel@vpn-ce242009.extern.uni-duisburg-essen.de)`
`11:44.13`	`aquatix`	`Robot101: yups ;)`
`11:44.15`	`RST38h`	`GA: Looks like it is eating6-7MB of RAM when it is resident`
`11:44.31`	`aquatix`	`Robot101: i have it installed, but those are from december last year iirc`
`11:44.34`	`Robot101`	`aquatix: we need to check with nokia and arrange to do the builds for diablo`
`11:44.43`	`aquatix`	`ah, k`
`11:45.01`	`GeneralAntilles`	`RST38h, that's about what I was seeing with htop.`
`11:45.08`	`aquatix`	`btw, my jabber accounts stopped working when i installed collabora stuff`
`11:45.12`	`aquatix`	`they won't connect`
`11:45.31`	`aquatix`	`which is weird, as they worked fine, and also with the rtcomm beta i had in chinook`
`11:45.31`	`RST38h`	`GA: Same here (with htop)`
`11:46.09`	`RST38h`	`About the same amount is taken by resident Modest. I am not sure if it is actually doing something or just hanging there though.`
`11:46.20`	`Robot101`	`aquatix: stopped working? that's very weird`
`11:46.32`	`Robot101`	`aquatix: can you get a log?`
`11:46.32`	`RST38h`	`Turned off background mail checks but Modest is still in memory`
`11:46.34`	`*** join/#maemo \|tbb\| (i=d95b155b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-abbf1daaff2f548f)`
`11:46.50`	`aquatix`	`Robot101: lets see...`
`11:47.36`	`Robot101`	`aquatix: http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/Debugging has some information`
`11:47.41`	`Robot101`	`aquatix: the gabble debug log is the most interesting`
`11:48.14`	`Robot101`	`(you can sign off, run LM_DEBUG=xxx GABBLE_DEBUG=xx GABBLE_PERSIST=... from xterm, then see what gabble says when you try to sign in)`
`11:52.09`	`*** join/#maemo mgedmin (n=mg@office.pov.lt)`
`11:52.10`	`*** join/#maemo kabtoffe (n=kbergstr@hoasnet-ff03dd00-85.dhcp.inet.fi)`
`11:54.37`	`*** join/#maemo hannesw (n=hannes@pluto.systemone.at)`
`11:57.15`	`*** join/#maemo greentux (n=lemke@ip-217-18-181-130.static.reverse.dsi.net)`
`11:58.39`	`aquatix`	`Robot101: hm, odd, some of them work, some don't`
`11:58.47`	`aquatix`	`i thought all didn't work`
`11:59.04`	`*** join/#maemo booiiing_ (n=[booiiin@e180020032.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`11:59.17`	`aquatix`	`gtalk one works, but i have an account on hyves.org that doesn't`
`11:59.27`	`aquatix`	`worked with chinook and rtcomm beta`
`11:59.33`	`aquatix`	`but it doesn't work in pidgin too`
`11:59.44`	`aquatix`	`so it's weird anyway`
`11:59.45`	`Robot101`	`maybe it just broke at the same time?`
`12:00.13`	`aquatix`	`not sure, but it worked in rtcomm beta while it didn't in pidgin at the same time`
`12:00.19`	`aquatix`	`is a bit confused now`
`12:00.27`	`Robot101`	`do they have broken SRV records?`
`12:00.35`	`aquatix`	`does collabora haze use libpurple for xmpp?`
`12:00.42`	`aquatix`	`how do i check?`
`12:00.57`	`Robot101`	`it should use gabble for XMPP`
`12:01.07`	`aquatix`	`it does`
`12:01.14`	`aquatix`	`i just wasn't sure what gabble was :)`
`12:01.17`	`hrw`	`guys - who will be on guadec?`
`12:01.49`	`aquatix`	`Server uses XEP-0078 (jabber iq auth) instead of SASL`
`12:01.54`	`aquatix`	`connection_auth_cb: failed`
`12:01.56`	`aquatix`	`hm`
`12:02.02`	`aquatix`	`i have the right pw and stuff`
`12:02.51`	`Robot101`	`oh, yeah. if the server claims to do XMPP 1.0, and doesn't actually, then a) it sucks and b) diablo's version of loudmouth doesn't have a workaround for that flavour of breakage`
`12:03.17`	`aquatix`	`ah :)`
`12:03.22`	`aquatix`	`likely it sucks indeed`
`12:03.37`	`aquatix`	`knowing that network`
`12:03.46`	`aquatix`	`tries with amessage.info`
`12:03.54`	`aquatix`	`which has troubles with pidgin too`
`12:05.43`	`aquatix`	`oh cool, that one works on my n810 even though it talks about the ssl certificate having a mismatching name`
`12:07.38`	`aquatix`	`hm, it keeps reconnecting`
`12:07.54`	`aquatix`	`notes he's spamming the chan a bit`
`12:13.02`	`hrw`	`lunch time`
`12:20.02`	`*** join/#maemo ralann\|mbp (n=ralann@c-76-22-113-126.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)`
`12:21.38`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Guess we need Flash 10 on Maemo for v4l2`
`12:23.46`	`*** join/#maemo etrunko (n=edulima@200.184.118.132)`
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`12:29.43`	`inz`	`aquatix, telepaty-haze does use libpurple, gabble uses libloudmouth`
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`12:30.17`	`mgedmin`	`speaking about conferences, anyone coming to EuroPython?`
`12:30.34`	`*** join/#maemo wms (n=wms___@198.146.5.54)`
`12:31.03`	`aquatix`	`inz: check`
`12:33.37`	`*** join/#maemo luck^ (n=Luciano@200.184.118.132)`
`12:33.52`	`crashanddie`	`anyone know if there's gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad ported to the maemo platform ?`
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`12:36.00`	`*** join/#maemo yerga (n=yerga@87.223.204.201)`
`12:37.12`	`Ave`	`crashanddie: afaicr it is available`
`12:37.20`	`lardman`	`does that include vorbis?`
`12:37.29`	`lardman`	`if so, it just compiles, no porting needed`
`12:37.46`	`crashanddie`	`yeah well, by porting I mean compiled/packaged`
`12:38.21`	`lardman`	`aargh, bt headset battery is flat`
`12:41.11`	`Ave`	`gstreamer0.10-plugins-base-ogg - Collection of GStreamer plugins for OGG`
`12:41.16`	`Ave`	`gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-ivorbis - GStreamer plugin for Tremor`
`12:42.44`	`Ave`	`theres multiple vorbis-libraries and I don't know whats different between them`
`12:43.11`	`Ave`	`and none currently use dsp like the mp3-side does`
`12:43.39`	`lardman`	`hmm, on the sbc front, the output is different, which might be a loss in precision, but more likely indicates a mistake`
`12:43.53`	`lardman`	`headphones are charging, I'll see if I can head anything this evening`
`12:43.59`	`lardman`	`s/head/hear`
`12:45.17`	`kulve`	`Ave: no dsp support for ogg`
`12:45.41`	`Ave`	`kulve: ever?`
`12:45.45`	`lardman`	`kulve: unless someone wants to help debug a buffer problem that is`
`12:45.52`	`Ave`	`someone from here was digging the dsp stuff as is`
`12:46.19`	`*** join/#maemo T0botras (n=tobotras@it.niir.ru)`
`12:46.50`	`lardman`	`Ave: me`
`12:47.09`	`Ave`	`gotcha :P`
`12:47.20`	`lardman`	`and others including kulve`
`12:47.54`	`lardman`	`Ave: Take a look at the dsp-tremor garage project mailing list`
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`12:49.05`	`*** join/#maemo mardi__ (n=mardi_@nat/ibm/x-7419a5662447fea7)`
`12:49.19`	`Ave`	`k`
`12:51.37`	`lardman`	`hmm, headphones came to life for a minute, just got a burst of noise, so some problem in my tweaks :)`
`12:53.15`	`crashanddie`	`packages.debian.org down for anyone else ?`
`12:53.16`	`wiza`	`:p`
`12:53.31`	`*** join/#maemo Sho_ (n=EHS1@kde/hein)`
`12:53.40`	`lardman`	`please feel free to take a look and tell me if you see anything wrong: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/mk3/dsp/?root=dsp-sbc`
`12:54.26`	`GeneralAntilles`	`crashanddie, yes.`
`12:55.38`	`Ave`	`lardman: seems quite hairy to say the least`
`12:56.50`	`lardman`	`Ave: I'm sure the error will be simple enough, it's got to be somewhere in the _sbc_analyze_eight()/_sbc_analyze_four() fns or the tables of constants`
`12:59.08`	`Ave`	`are we talking about integer overflow somewhere or what kind of problem`
`12:59.33`	`lardman`	`Could be integer overflow, I also am worried about the matrix dimensions`
`12:59.45`	`lardman`	`whether I've placed the dimensions the right way round`
`13:00.11`	`lardman`	`2D arrays are an array of pointers to 1D arrays?`
`13:00.54`	`lardman`	`in which case, I wonder if the 2D matrices I've created get padded; I read into them manually (as 1D arrays)`
`13:01.49`	`lardman`	`or are 2D arrays actually just allocated as array(1st_dim_size*2nd_dim_size)?`
`13:04.01`	`lardman`	`'s pocket C reference doens't have enough detail`
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`13:04.35`	`mgedmin`	`crashanddie: http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/packages.debian.org`
`13:05.20`	`mgedmin`	`lardman: 2D arrays are allocated in a single contiguous block`
`13:05.26`	`lardman`	`Actually I could change the code easily to use 2d array references`
`13:05.31`	`lardman`	`mgedmin: ah cool, thanks`
`13:05.43`	`mgedmin`	`in row-major form, I think it's called`
`13:05.44`	`lardman`	`which array elements are contiguous? the last dimension?`
`13:05.48`	`mgedmin`	`yes`
`13:06.10`	`crashanddie`	`mgedmin, 502 Server Error`
`13:06.13`	`crashanddie`	`the irony`
`13:06.15`	`lardman`	`ok, will have to check, that's what I had thought, but I may have still made a mistake`
`13:06.20`	`mgedmin`	`array[row][col] = (&array + row row_width + col)`
`13:07.18`	`lardman`	`mgedmin: thanks`
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`13:11.12`	`hrw`	`lardman: going to guadec?`
`13:12.04`	`*** join/#maemo cmarcelo (n=cmarcelo@200.184.118.132)`
`13:14.02`	`lardman`	`hrw: no, am pretty busy; away to Chicago later in the month`
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`13:18.11`	`lcuk`	`hrw, does openmoko have an x11 driver (and xv library?)`
`13:19.13`	`hrw`	`lcuk: yes - it is x11 based still`
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`13:19.44`	`lcuk`	`does the hardware support YUV format? ;)`
`13:20.24`	`lcuk`	`could do with getting his head into it and having a looksee`
`13:21.18`	`lcuk`	`lardman, arrays are normall [ y * XMax + x ] so for a 800480 grid you do Y800+x`
`13:21.49`	`lardman`	`hmm, so the first dimension is contiguous then?`
`13:22.03`	`GeneralAntilles`	`should unsubscribe from -users already.`
`13:22.24`	`lardman`	`GeneralAntilles: I've got it set to digest and it goes straight to storage`
`13:22.35`	`GeneralAntilles`	`It's worse than itT`
`13:23.20`	`lardman`	`lcuk: heading back to work, but I'll see what you write in the meantime`
`13:24.18`	`lcuk`	`array[y][x] normally if i remember rightly, but i havent used that format for years, i just allocate a single array and do the indexing like i said originally`
`13:24.23`	`*** join/#maemo atul (n=qvantel@61.16.248.242)`
`13:24.33`	`lcuk`	`grrr @ his quick exits ;)`
`13:25.10`	`lcuk`	`mgedmin, did we just say the same thing (with yours first)`
`13:25.24`	`GeneralAntilles`	`There's just so much bad advice flying around on -users that I can't help but step in. <_<`
`13:27.02`	`*** join/#maemo chenca (n=chenca@200.184.118.132)`
`13:27.40`	`*** join/#maemo wazd (n=az@195.91.167.225)`
`13:27.50`	`lcuk`	`GeneralAntilles, what you mean`
`13:28.09`	`lcuk`	`tries to stay out of the way of mailing lists and doesnt know where most are`
`13:28.30`	`GeneralAntilles`	`-users has sort of the same retarded tone as itT, but with very few intelligent voices to ameliorate the stupidity.`
`13:28.33`	`GeneralAntilles`	`maemo-users`
`13:28.39`	`*** join/#maemo borism_ (n=boris@195-50-201-215-dsl.krw.estpak.ee)`
`13:30.24`	`*** join/#maemo herz1 (n=herzi@p578EBCDD.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`13:31.36`	`lcuk`	`http://slashdot.org/~LiquidCoooled/journal/206313`
`13:32.44`	`pupnik`	`yaay`
`13:33.50`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Woo, lower /. uid than lcuk. :P`
`13:34.16`	`lcuk`	`why where are you gen?`
`13:34.40`	`GeneralAntilles`	`500k something`
`13:34.48`	`GeneralAntilles`	`I don't ever post, though.`
`13:35.38`	`lardman`	`re`
`13:35.46`	`wiza`	`little under 600k on /. :D`
`13:35.50`	`lcuk`	`but ive wrote a shed load more comments than you :P`
`13:36.11`	`*** join/#maemo pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be)`
`13:36.16`	`lcuk`	`and for the first time in about 5 years have mod points`
`13:36.31`	`GeneralAntilles`	`I get mod points all the time, don't use them much`
`13:36.33`	`RST38h`	`Slashdot has ALSO got a blog engine?!?`
`13:36.46`	`lcuk`	`its had the zoo for ages`
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`13:36.51`	`*** join/#maemo TPC (n=andreas@pdpc/supporter/student/TPC)`
`13:37.05`	`glass`	`RST38h: the journal thing has been in there for ages.. like 8 years or so`
`13:37.06`	`RST38h`	`Oh, the horror...`
`13:37.24`	`lcuk`	`they can be submitted as articles as well if required. :) visibility and good things for the nokia tablets can only be a good thing`
`13:37.40`	`Veggen`	`I was only 1855 registrations too late to get a 4 digit slashdot uid.`
`13:37.57`	`lcuk`	`i was only 600000 too late`
`13:38.03`	`glass`	`i stopped reading/commenting at slashdot regularly at some point years and years ago`
`13:38.06`	`lcuk`	`curses missing the boat`
`13:38.12`	`glass`	`got some 2500comments / excellent karma`
`13:38.27`	`lcuk`	`i stopped regularly posting sometime in december, i wonder why`
`13:38.31`	`glass`	`some fans too! :)`
`13:38.32`	`lcuk`	`strokes his 810`
`13:38.35`	`Veggen`	`(1856, infact, since my uid is 11855)`
`13:38.47`	`RST38h`	`lcuk <--- betrayed slashdot for itt!`
`13:38.48`	`*** join/#maemo Andy80 (n=andy80@host63-200-dynamic.46-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)`
`13:38.56`	`lcuk`	`<PROTECTED>`
`13:39.02`	`Andy80`	`hi all`
`13:39.34`	`glass`	`some 40 fans to be exact, "yay"`
`13:39.41`	`RST38h`	`Slashdot is filled with really dull geek people though. Switched to TheRegister as my news source years ago.`
`13:39.50`	`Andy80`	`has Maemo-pc-connectivity been substituted by the "USB Networking" applet?`
`13:39.55`	`Veggen`	`I don't comment very often, tho, as I have only 62 comments in total :)`
`13:40.13`	`Veggen`	`(but excellent karma, so obviously people like it when I comment)`
`13:40.26`	`glass`	`it's pretty easy to learn to do comments that get modded +5`
`13:40.41`	`lcuk`	`its an artform to get +5 troll though :)`
`13:40.46`	`hendry`	`wonders why there isn't any diablo liveCDs. takes AGES to setup an SDK currently... :(`
`13:40.48`	`glass`	`hah yeah`
`13:41.14`	`lcuk`	`hendry, ive seen one linux vmware image, but it was console only i think`
`13:41.14`	`RST38h`	`lcuk: Not really, those guys luck any sense of humor`
`13:41.24`	`RST38h`	`s/luck/lack`
`13:41.38`	`*** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=salveti@200.184.118.132)`
`13:41.44`	`*** join/#maemo jpuderer (n=jpuderer@76-10-136-190.dsl.teksavvy.com)`
`13:41.57`	`lcuk`	`anyway, back later, thought it was time to explain where the lc comes from :)`
`13:42.16`	`lcuk`	`plenty of folks have asked and assumed it was a typo, but i live in the uk`
`13:42.50`	`RST38h`	`will you change it if you move though?`
`13:43.38`	`*** join/#maemo hfwilke (n=hwilke_@gateway.GRAYINSCO.COM)`
`13:44.19`	`lcuk`	`NEVER!`
`13:44.27`	`lcuk`	`ive gotten used to it`
`13:44.45`	`lcuk`	`damn, im closing vnc from home end, back at 6`
`13:44.55`	`aquatix`	`besides, lcnl isn't pronouncable ;)`
`13:44.56`	`*** join/#maemo T0b0tras (n=boris@ppp91-78-35-79.pppoe.mtu-net.ru)`
`13:45.02`	`aquatix`	`[or aren't you moving here ;)]`
`13:45.12`	`aquatix`	`lcuk: ok, cya`
`13:47.44`	`RST38h`	`aquatix: To Niue you mean?`
`13:48.01`	`andre__`	`timelyx, figuring out a plan for garage in bugs.maemo does not make sense if nearly no developer wants to move to bugs.maemo`
`13:48.40`	`andre__`	`at least so far the feedback was... not much`
`13:48.40`	`GeneralAntilles`	`andre__, start by poking some of them directly?`
`13:48.40`	`aquatix`	`RST38h: niwha? .nl = the netherlands`
`13:48.46`	`RST38h`	`*** aquatix is n=aquatix@higgs.soleus.nu <===`
`13:48.55`	`aquatix`	`ah`
`13:49.01`	`RST38h`	`hehe`
`13:49.04`	`aquatix`	`don't mind that hostname :)`
`13:49.20`	`andre__`	`heh... some is good... well, for me it's clear that it's up to them to decide, and not me actively pushing it`
`13:49.21`	`aquatix`	`it's even hosted here in .nl`
`13:49.29`	`GeneralAntilles`	`I would actively push it.`
`13:49.40`	`GeneralAntilles`	`I think the vast majority of people are apathetic`
`13:49.44`	`RST38h`	`aquatix: aka Rock of Polinesia`
`13:49.50`	`GeneralAntilles`	`But the net result for the community will be a very positive one`
`13:49.55`	`GeneralAntilles`	`and it's something I'd like to see move forward.`
`13:50.02`	`andre__`	`hmm, understand`
`13:50.04`	`aquatix`	`RST38h: yeah, i know it`
`13:50.36`	`GeneralAntilles`	`andre__, I think some others may be in a sort of "where's the beef?" state`
`13:50.55`	`GeneralAntilles`	`So I wouldn't take the lack of response too negatively.`
`13:51.44`	`GeneralAntilles`	`A good step would probably be to figure out the dozen or so top projects in the garage tracker and talk to their developers directly.`
`13:51.55`	`GeneralAntilles`	`I'm sure a lot of them don't follow itT`
`13:52.08`	`GeneralAntilles`	`some may not follow -developers, and it's easy to lose a thread in there.`
`13:52.27`	`andre__`	`hmm, okay...`
`13:52.49`	`sp3001`	`what he manes it's easy to get naked in -developers.`
`13:52.56`	`sp3001`	`...or something else.`
`13:53.05`	`sp3001`	`means even.`
`13:53.06`	`andre__`	`not really :)`
`13:53.11`	`GeneralAntilles`	`s/thread/threads/`
`13:53.14`	`RST38h`	`GA: Some may not even want to have a bugtracker`
`13:53.34`	`andre__`	`reminds me of postgres. unbelievable`
`13:53.47`	`RST38h`	`GA: 'Cause it implies extra time needed to manage bug records`
`13:53.50`	`GeneralAntilles`	`RST38h, of course, which is why the bugzilla use should be opt-in.`
`13:54.07`	`RST38h`	`no argument there`
`13:54.36`	`RST38h`	`Let us put it this way: you may want to start by persuading projects that already HAVE bugtrackers to move to bugs.maemo.org`
`13:54.44`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Actually, I think all gforge features should be opt-in for new projects.`
`13:55.10`	`RST38h`	`And of course this implies having to have a painless way to migrate bug reports`
`13:55.11`	`andre__`	`GeneralAntilles, I wonder whether it's possible to deactivate the GForge bug tracker at all`
`13:55.12`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Well, we need a system in place at bugzilla for handling garage bug tracking first.`
`13:55.14`	`*** join/#maemo borism (n=boris@195-50-197-150-dsl.krw.estpak.ee)`
`13:55.23`	`GeneralAntilles`	`andre__, I think so, but dunno.`
`13:55.23`	`andre__`	`yes, the painless migration way is missing`
`13:55.50`	`RST38h`	`Shouldn't be difficult, pretty much a specialized PERL or Python script`
`13:55.56`	`andre__`	`no, garage bugs should be cleaned up before importing them to bugs.maemo`
`13:56.29`	`andre__`	`the modest guys made this in a very easy (and maybe a bit rude) way: closing all tickets in garage, and asking to report to bugs.maemo if it still exists`
`13:56.32`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Definitely`
`13:56.57`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Oh, is the Modest tracker finally done for?`
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`13:57.19`	`mgedmin`	`yes`
`13:57.22`	`andre__`	`yupp`
`13:57.24`	`mgedmin`	`and they migrated old bugs using the CADT model`
`13:57.45`	`andre__`	`harhar`
`13:57.49`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Personally, I'd be happy to volunteer to help triage and migrate bugs from tracker to bugzilla.`
`13:58.04`	`RST38h`	`GA: That is a LOT of bugs`
`13:58.14`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Not really`
`13:58.20`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Most of them are 770 backport bugs`
`13:58.30`	`RST38h`	`Oh...`
`13:58.31`	`GeneralAntilles`	`and I'm talking volunteering on a project-by-project basis.`
`13:58.36`	`RST38h`	`Those may go, right?`
`13:58.46`	`GeneralAntilles`	`If a dev wants help migrating, I'll volunteer. ;0`
`13:58.51`	`GeneralAntilles`	`s/0/)/`
`14:00.58`	`andre__`	`hmm. lots of things to discuss next week with Karsten wehen we both meet physically at guadec... sigh :)`
`14:01.35`	`*** join/#maemo ralann\|mac (n=ralann@c-76-22-113-126.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)`
`14:02.18`	`*** join/#maemo m-c (n=mmm@ubuntu/member/desertc)`
`14:03.52`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Barring any particularly vocal objection from any of the garage devs, a certain amount of "what's good for the community" should be factored into the decision to push the bugzilla move, and bugzilla is definitely that. ;)`
`14:07.22`	`hendry`	`i have diablo scratchbox 1 going. i'm unsure how to share library headers with the host system. any clues? symlinking into /scratchbox/host_shared doesn't work`
`14:11.02`	`zuh`	`hendry: Bind-mounting is the way, symlinks to outside world don't work within sb due to chrooting and other black magic`
`14:12.05`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Did Maemo Mapper make it into Diablo Extras yet?`
`14:12.15`	`hrw`	`heh.. I am unable to draw few circles with same center point..`
`14:12.44`	`hendry`	`zuh: can you give me an example of a bind mount?`
`14:13.03`	`zuh`	`mount -o bind /mydir /someotherdir`
`14:13.51`	`zuh`	`after that mydir == someotherdir (wrt contents)`
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`14:17.57`	`hendry`	`zuh: you do this outside the scratchbox/chroot right? can you give an example mounting host's /usr/lib/java`
`14:18.19`	`zuh`	`yes, outside.`
`14:18.28`	`zuh`	`So you want to mount something under your target?`
`14:20.17`	`zuh`	`mkdir /scratchbox/users/whatever/targets/770/usr/lib/java ; sudo mount -o bind /usr/lib/java /scratchbox/users/whatever/targets/770/usr/lib/java`
`14:20.37`	`zuh`	`eh, 770 == the name of the scratchbox target`
`14:21.04`	`hendry`	`and to preserve these mounts, you put them in fstab?`
`14:21.15`	`zuh`	`for example, yes`
`14:22.04`	`zuh`	`I have lines like '/mnt/storage/home /home none defaults,bind 0 0' there`
`14:22.11`	`hendry`	`zuh: kiittos`
`14:22.17`	`zuh`	`np`
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`14:23.25`	`*** join/#maemo jegp (n=jegp@200.26.178.201)`
`14:27.07`	`*** join/#maemo qwerty12 (n=faheem@host-84-9-53-26.dslgb.com)`
`14:28.29`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Great picture: http://www.engadget.com/2008/07/03/cops-adopt-sms-tip-lines-to-help-fight-crime-find-out-where-the/`
`14:28.44`	`aquatix`	`:)`
`14:28.47`	`crashanddie`	`high 5's qwerty12`
`14:29.04`	`qwerty12`	`returns the high 5 :)`
`14:29.19`	`pupnik`	`http://new.music.yahoo.com/videos/MichaelPenn/Long-Way-Down-Look-What-The-Cat-Drug-In--2162287 love this song so much - and the Brothers Quay video to it`
`14:32.21`	`pekuja`	`"drug"? isn't the proper past tense of "drag" "dragged"?`
`14:32.33`	`pekuja`	`I had to wonder for a while what that sentence meant`
`14:32.43`	`pekuja`	`"is the cat taking drugs? what does this mean?"`
`14:32.54`	`pupnik`	`i dunno`
`14:33.09`	`qwerty12`	`Meh, if my cat brought in weed, I'd buy a shitload of cat treats for him.`
`14:33.14`	`pupnik`	`hahaha`
`14:33.36`	`pupnik`	`i think it's poetic license - drug in sounds better`
`14:33.37`	`*** join/#maemo zhur (n=zhur@cold.ispras.ru)`
`14:33.37`	`GeneralAntilles`	`http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/drug#Verb_2`
`14:33.48`	`GeneralAntilles`	`It's US usage.`
`14:34.23`	`pupnik`	`achaa`
`14:34.47`	`qwerty12`	`Actually in my language, achaa roughly translates to ahh, I see :)`
`14:35.08`	`pupnik`	`jawohl`
`14:35.19`	`qwerty12`	`Maybe not that one :P`
`14:36.06`	`qwerty12`	`I have 2 hours before I get shouted at :P. May as well release the kernel with fixed n800 touchscreen in android in that time.`
`14:36.36`	`pupnik`	`there's a Brothers Quay dvd collection that's quite um.. well... appropriate for watching with a high fever`
`14:36.37`	`pekuja`	`cool`
`14:37.06`	`pekuja`	`how's android today? is it actually usable for stuff?`
`14:37.27`	`pekuja`	`there are no devices shipping with it yet, correct?`
`14:37.46`	`*** join/#maemo lnx^_ (i=lnx@zux.sjr.fi)`
`14:37.49`	`qwerty12`	`The version on tablets is quite an old one (m3), the latest runs but due to the suckiness of the shitty epson lcd controller, it doesn't run that great.`
`14:39.49`	`*** join/#maemo vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim)`
`14:40.07`	`m-c`	`qwerty12: I was very happy to get to see android, thank ye!`
`14:40.10`	`pupnik`	`eh, what's it doing, fullscreen refreshes for no reason?`
`14:41.14`	`qwerty12`	`m-c, it's penguinbait's work too :)`
`14:41.36`	`qwerty12`	`pupnik, something like that. the epson controller doesn't support page flipping, something like that`
`14:41.41`	`hendry`	`i don't understand DIABLO_X86. why would you want to build under DIABLO_x86? why not just use the host environment?`
`14:41.50`	`qwerty12`	`You don't build. It's for testing.`
`14:42.09`	`hendry`	`qwerty12: how so?`
`14:42.13`	`pupnik`	`yeah but.. why not test the arm build itself`
`14:42.28`	`qwerty12`	`hendry, For example, you can't use dsptasks under diablo_armel`
`14:42.33`	`pupnik`	`oh there's some debugging you can do under x86 i think, if you're hardcore in that`
`14:42.36`	`pupnik`	`achaa`
`14:46.42`	`*** join/#maemo bergie (n=bergie@83.150.93.9)`
`14:48.28`	`hrw`	`bye`
`14:50.20`	`crashanddie`	`hrw\|gone, cheers mate`
`14:52.52`	`*** join/#maemo Talus_n810 (n=user@69.248.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt)`
`14:53.03`	`*** join/#maemo ralann\|mbp (n=ralann@c-76-22-113-126.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)`
`14:53.25`	`Talus_n810`	`greetings`
`14:55.54`	`*** join/#maemo Vaseki (n=user@r5e201.net.upc.cz)`
`14:56.59`	`*** join/#maemo GNUton (n=franco@cs181170147.pp.htv.fi)`
`14:57.03`	`*** join/#maemo tbf (n=mathias@p57BBC412.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`14:57.11`	`GNUton`	`Hi there`
`14:57.35`	`*** join/#maemo sven-tek (i=linux@p508ECB68.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`14:59.38`	`*** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@gozur.sunflowerbroadband.com)`
`15:00.37`	`crashanddie`	`Hey`
`15:00.43`	`crashanddie`	`first time I have an update warning`
`15:00.44`	`crashanddie`	`sweet`
`15:00.54`	`Talus_n810`	`:)`
`15:01.19`	`Talus_n810`	`anyone here developing ?`
`15:01.28`	`crashanddie`	`yup`
`15:01.31`	`qwerty12`	`developing what?`
`15:01.32`	`crashanddie`	`quite a few in fact :)`
`15:01.44`	`Talus_n810`	`cool`
`15:01.50`	`crashanddie`	`GeneralAntilles, update all is bliss`
`15:02.00`	`crashanddie`	`ah, no, sorry`
`15:02.02`	`crashanddie`	`I don't develop cool`
`15:02.06`	`Talus_n810`	`i'm starting with the toturials`
`15:02.26`	`crashanddie`	`Talus_n810, are you a programmer ?`
`15:02.29`	`crashanddie`	`Talus_n810, or just starting out ?`
`15:02.33`	`Talus_n810`	`yes`
`15:02.44`	`Talus_n810`	`i'm a programmer`
`15:02.50`	`crashanddie`	`ok :)`
`15:03.00`	`Talus_n810`	`just new to maemo stuff`
`15:03.23`	`qwerty12`	`is somewhat halfway. I can't program but I wrote a quick program in python and I hack around with the kernel a bit. So I dunno what I am :P`
`15:03.35`	`crashanddie`	`a hacker ?`
`15:03.37`	`Talus_n810`	`hehe`
`15:03.41`	`crashanddie`	`just not a code guru`
`15:03.58`	`qwerty12`	`crashanddie, yeah :). I've done so much stuff to my N800, heh :D`
`15:04.06`	`qwerty12`	`(and paid the reflashing price >.<)`
`15:04.34`	`Talus_n810`	`i just have this n810 2 days`
`15:04.44`	`crashanddie`	`Talus_n810, updated to diablo ?`
`15:04.49`	`Talus_n810`	`yep`
`15:04.54`	`crashanddie`	`ok :)`
`15:04.56`	`Talus_n810`	`up and running`
`15:05.53`	`Talus_n810`	`i'll be developing m-health system into the n810`
`15:07.04`	`*** join/#maemo fab (n=bellet@bellet.info)`
`15:07.05`	`eichi__`	`is there somethink like a "repo-rss" ?`
`15:07.18`	`eichi__`	`that i can see, if my apps are available for diablo?`
`15:07.25`	`eichi__`	`if/when`
`15:11.08`	`crashanddie`	`Nokia goes green: http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/2609/photo0219wx4.jpg`
`15:11.34`	`qwerty12`	`OH GOD, GIVE ME SOME!! :P`
`15:11.45`	`crashanddie`	`Haha :D`
`15:12.18`	`GeneralAntilles`	`shakes his head.`
`15:12.26`	`GeneralAntilles`	`It's like qwerty12's catnip`
`15:13.05`	`crashanddie`	`yeah`
`15:13.13`	`crashanddie`	`just a little less minty`
`15:13.19`	`pupnik`	`lol`
`15:13.29`	`Talus_n810`	`hehe`
`15:13.31`	`qwerty12`	`I'll meow for some.`
`15:14.12`	`pekuja`	`damn drug addicts`
`15:14.34`	`qwerty12`	`I'm offended :(`
`15:14.41`	`crashanddie`	`why addicts ?`
`15:14.51`	`crashanddie`	`just because I have a leaf doesn't mean I'm stoned to death 24/7`
`15:14.58`	`qwerty12`	`(Heh, I'm only joking, I've never touched the stuff, can't deny though, if I had the chance...)`
`15:15.21`	`lardman`	`qwerty12: never seen the appeal myself`
`15:15.27`	`crashanddie`	`It's quite rare on my part`
`15:15.33`	`Talus_n810`	`;) we all addicted to life`
`15:15.41`	`lardman`	`and beer`
`15:15.46`	`lardman`	`:)`
`15:16.02`	`crashanddie`	`I must've been high... 3 times in the last year ?`
`15:16.08`	`Talus_n810`	`spot on lardman`
`15:16.19`	`crashanddie`	`And drunk... 30 times ?`
`15:16.21`	`pekuja`	`well mostly I just find it weird how it's so socially acceptable in some places`
`15:16.31`	`pekuja`	`I don't think I even know any drug users`
`15:16.37`	`qwerty12`	`Meh, I should join my friend in Denmark...`
`15:16.40`	`RST38h`	`a lot stranger things are socially acceptable in some places...`
`15:17.13`	`RST38h`	`used to know some. Wondering how many of them are still reasonably human though...`
`15:17.17`	`pekuja`	`I guess I might, but nobody's ever offered me any and I've never seen anyone use anything, apart from nicotine, alcohol and caffeine.`
`15:17.30`	`*** join/#maemo __t (n=t@extern.bootlab.org)`
`15:17.54`	`crashanddie`	`alcohol is equally dangerous as weed, maybe even more, considering it's not "considered" a drug`
`15:18.06`	`qwerty12`	`Ok, can anyone with an N810 and who's running android test out a kernel for me?`
`15:18.10`	`pekuja`	`I mean I just get thrown off when somebody just casually mentions smoking weed or whatever on IRC, because it's not something I expect people to admit to`
`15:18.35`	`crashanddie`	`I think it would be quite pathetic to not admit it`
`15:18.53`	`RST38h`	`pekuja: that is only because you live in a country that has strong social taboo on it`
`15:19.15`	`crashanddie`	`I'm in fact quite proud of the fact that I've been in contact with it (and regularly am), but have never fallen into the vice of it`
`15:19.17`	`RST38h`	`did not know drug addicts existed until 1990 or so`
`15:19.36`	`lardman`	`crashanddie: weed has proven long-term psychosis inducing abilities though`
`15:20.22`	`Talus_n810`	`anyone here using ubuntu and have pc connectivity configured?`
`15:20.48`	`crashanddie`	`lardman, I'd even say more, weed triggers a genetic-disorder that causes long-term paranoia, schizophrenia, and that, even if it's the first time you use it`
`15:20.50`	`RST38h`	`crash: Just wait until you discover the wonders of pills. Most weed users I knew eventually switched to pills, then cocaine`
`15:20.54`	`Talus_n810`	`can't get usb0 to work`
`15:21.07`	`crashanddie`	`RST38h, I'll never touch that shit, trust me`
`15:21.15`	`RST38h`	`crash: You never know...`
`15:21.32`	`qwerty12`	`Meh, heroin /NEVER/ appealed to me`
`15:21.34`	`crashanddie`	`well, I do know, as long as I'm conscious, I'll never try out shit like that`
`15:21.38`	`RST38h`	`crash: "Why smoke and fly when you can drop and teleport?"`
`15:22.03`	`pupnik`	`hahah`
`15:22.18`	`*** join/#maemo vik_ (n=vik@damm3qdbhn.adsl.datanet.hu)`
`15:22.40`	`crashanddie`	`RST38h, because like I said, it's casual, extremely casual, I'm not in any need of getting high, never have. And I refuse to touch something which I have seen destroy lives (admittedly, I have seen weed destroy lives, too)`
`15:23.02`	`pekuja`	`and alcohol and tobacco`
`15:23.02`	`*** join/#maemo povbot (n=supybot@office.pov.lt)`
`15:23.04`	`GeneralAntilles`	`andre__, I wonder if it'd be worth putting together a pilot in order to pique some interest.`
`15:23.07`	`pekuja`	`dunno if caffeine has destroyed any`
`15:23.09`	`qwerty12`	`Sniff, No one with N810 and android?`
`15:23.18`	`*** join/#maemo mgedmin (n=mg@office.pov.lt)`
`15:23.19`	`qwerty12`	`(No pun intended)`
`15:23.44`	`Talus_n810`	`that would be nice`
`15:24.00`	`RST38h`	`pekuja: "legal" amphetamines have, though`
`15:24.09`	`crashanddie`	`I hardly consider myself a "user". I'd just say I'm someone who knows about it, I'm educated in it, educated enough so that I could make an educated decision.`
`15:24.42`	`crashanddie`	`And to be honest, I've seen way more lives destroyed because of alcohol than weed, or any other kind of drugs`
`15:24.47`	`lardman`	`sounds like me a C++`
`15:24.56`	`lardman`	`s/a/and`
`15:25.01`	`crashanddie`	`lardman, hahahahaha`
`15:26.09`	`Talus_n810`	`:)`
`15:26.15`	`crashanddie`	`btw, topic should be updated, we're hardly July 1st anymore`
`15:26.27`	`crashanddie`	`and that, no matter what timezone :P`
`15:27.27`	`GeneralAntilles`	`dneary's job`
`15:27.37`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Anybody see pagerate and pageview in Extras?`
`15:27.52`	`qwerty12`	`No, what does it do?`
`15:27.57`	`qwerty12`	`Oh wait.`
`15:28.00`	`qwerty12`	`Doh.`
`15:28.00`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Dunno`
`15:28.03`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Installing now.`
`15:29.26`	`RST38h`	`seen them`
`15:31.06`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Interesting`
`15:31.46`	`andre__`	`GeneralAntilles, it can never hurt :)`
`15:31.54`	`*** join/#maemo borism_ (n=boris@195-50-204-145-dsl.krw.estpak.ee)`
`15:32.08`	`GeneralAntilles`	`andre__, any Nokia-vetting involved with that?`
`15:33.02`	`andre__`	`how do you mean?`
`15:33.23`	`*** join/#maemo oilinki3 (n=oil@ppp-124-120-13-121.revip2.asianet.co.th)`
`15:33.23`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Is a pilot program something that's just a technical issue, or is there Nokia approval involved?`
`15:34.00`	`andre__`	`err.... ok. explain first what exactly you understand under "pilot program" then :)`
`15:34.27`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Pick a garage project, and set up a section in bugzilla for it.`
`15:34.55`	`GeneralAntilles`	`So, let's take extra-cauldron, what needs doing to get that into bugzilla?`
`15:35.56`	`andre__`	`well, if the devs want to move away from garage, okay. but we also need to think about component structure, and default assignee policy and so on`
`15:36.50`	`GeneralAntilles`	`and, by pilot, I mean a test program with a single garage project to show developers how it might work.`
`15:37.00`	`andre__`	`you see,i'm not yet that totally motivated yet as long as there's stuff to work out :)`
`15:37.07`	`andre__`	`modest? :-D`
`15:37.13`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Hehe, too late.`
`15:37.17`	`GeneralAntilles`	`and that's shipped on-device`
`15:37.24`	`GeneralAntilles`	`so it's not a Garage project, really. :P`
`15:37.51`	`andre__`	`it was two months ago :)`
`15:38.10`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Still not quite the same, though.`
`15:38.15`	`GeneralAntilles`	`As it's a Nokia project.`
`15:38.28`	`*** join/#maemo pupnik (n=pupnik@dslb-084-059-053-076.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`15:38.30`	`andre__`	`hmm, right`
`15:39.34`	`andre__`	`another issue is that it makes it harder for me to do statistics and reports, because nokia of course wants to differentiate maemo bug data between "core products" (own responsibility) and community ones`
`15:39.49`	`andre__`	`latter one is really something that Karsten will comment on, that's more his area`
`15:40.00`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Do the classifications timeless mentioned help with that?`
`15:40.31`	`crashanddie`	`Well, I'm going to work out a bit, then shower, and then workshop night, see ya later guys`
`15:40.54`	`andre__`	`hmm, a bit`
`15:41.29`	`*** join/#maemo anders_ (i=andersg@0x63.nu)`
`15:41.34`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Later, crashanddie.`
`15:41.58`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Why's guenther failing so much at idling these days? :P`
`15:42.05`	`andre__`	`hehe`
`15:42.07`	`andre__`	`students...`
`15:42.42`	`andre__`	`i'm also going to be away in half an hour :)`
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`15:43.58`	`Talus_n810`	`anyone here had problems with g_ether driver in ubuntu?`
`15:44.12`	`*** join/#maemo bilboedpi (n=bilboed@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net)`
`15:44.30`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Anyway, I know you were looking for more response before pushing a wiki task, but mind if I go ahead and do that?`
`15:45.27`	`*** join/#maemo gentooer (n=asdfsf@pool-72-90-161-236.nwrknj.east.verizon.net)`
`15:45.30`	`andre__`	`GeneralAntilles, go ahead!`
`15:46.18`	`andre__`	`as long as you explicitly mention that it's work and thoughts in progress, i'd owe you a beer at maemo summit for doing this :)`
`15:46.47`	`GeneralAntilles`	`;)`
`15:47.34`	`*** join/#maemo florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69)`
`15:47.50`	`andre__`	`also tries to repair a violin in real life, beside trying to catch up with irc conversations :-D`
`15:48.08`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Violin repair?`
`15:48.13`	`GeneralAntilles`	`That sounds difficult`
`15:48.39`	`wazd`	`patching kernel sounds the same xD`
`15:48.48`	`andre__`	`yeah, thought today of bringing it to a professional, but then i thought: hmm, why not try first :)`
`15:48.55`	`RST38h`	`A violin cannot be backed up`
`15:49.02`	`RST38h`	`Or versioned, for this matter`
`15:49.08`	`andre__`	`hehe`
`15:49.16`	`GeneralAntilles`	`I'm with RST38h here. :P`
`15:49.21`	`wazd`	`pity :)`
`15:49.38`	`*** join/#maemo ijon_ (n=ijon@dhcp218-147.yandex.ru)`
`15:50.03`	`andre__`	`hah! i can still remove my version if it does not work and let a professional recompile the violin :-P`
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`15:55.48`	`RST38h`	`The destruction process is way more satisfying than rm -rfing it...`
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`15:58.06`	`andre__`	`heh`
`16:01.39`	`*** part/#maemo fr01 (n=jex_o_je@212.30.2.18)`
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`16:03.42`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Hrm, what should I call this? "Task:Bugzilla and Garage" or "Task:Community bug tracking in Bugzilla"? Or any other suggestions?`
`16:04.24`	`GeneralAntilles`	`or maybe "Task:Garage bug tracking in Bugzilla"`
`16:06.22`	`andre__`	`Moving from Garage tracker to Bugzilla?`
`16:06.26`	`andre__`	`hmm`
`16:06.40`	`andre__`	`"Task:Garage bug tracking in Bugzilla" also sounds good`
`16:06.52`	`andre__`	`and my violin works. whoot. i need to blog :-)`
`16:06.59`	`GeneralAntilles`	`moar bloging!`
`16:07.02`	`GeneralAntilles`	`cracks the whip.`
`16:07.42`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Going with Garage bug tracking in Bugzilla`
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`16:12.00`	`*** join/#maemo Sho_ (n=EHS1@kde/hein)`
`16:14.46`	`Talus_n810`	`cheers mates, i'll be back later`
`16:15.50`	`*** join/#maemo gentooer (n=asdfsf@pool-72-90-161-236.nwrknj.east.verizon.net)`
`16:26.13`	`*** join/#maemo playya (n=playya@p57B294A0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`16:26.21`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Alright, it's started: https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Garage_bug_tracking_in_Bugzilla will flesh out some details and issues later.`
`16:29.31`	`*** join/#maemo foka (n=foka@123.115.249.130)`
`16:31.56`	`timeless`	`ok, i think one thing you'll need/want is to upgrade bugzilla`
`16:32.53`	`timeless`	`sadly, my computer is busy watering the weeds, so i can't type particularly quickly :(`
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`16:34.30`	`timeless`	`actually, i'm wrong`
`16:34.33`	`timeless`	`classifications are available`
`16:34.45`	`*** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@gozur.sunflowerbroadband.com)`
`16:35.09`	`timeless`	`GeneralAntilles: would you like to see this?`
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`16:56.12`	`*** join/#maemo tw-nym (n=silverfi@c-98-223-123-112.hsd1.in.comcast.net)`
`16:57.44`	`*** join/#maemo foka (n=foka@123.115.249.130)`
`17:01.04`	`*** join/#maemo lcuk (i=lcuk@cpc1-oldh7-0-0-cust232.manc.cable.ntl.com)`
`17:01.15`	`crashanddie`	`ok`
`17:01.16`	`crashanddie`	`well`
`17:01.29`	`*** join/#maemo avs (n=avs@a88-114-235-126.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`17:01.46`	`crashanddie`	`bleh`
`17:01.50`	`crashanddie`	`is tired`
`17:07.35`	`*** join/#maemo lmoura (n=lmoura@200.184.118.132)`
`17:12.46`	`*** join/#maemo dougt_ (n=dougt@c-67-180-89-151.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`17:12.50`	`eichi__`	`is there something like a rss file for the maemo repo?`
`17:13.23`	`crashanddie`	`laterz !`
`17:14.44`	`*** join/#maemo greentux (n=lemke@Z6cd0.z.pppool.de)`
`17:15.31`	`johnx`	`eichi__, that's a good question actually. I think the answer is no, but a script to generate an rss feed from a releases file would be neat`
`17:19.24`	`*** join/#maemo foka (n=foka@123.115.249.130)`
`17:19.49`	`johnx`	`muahaha...my compiles will expand to take over any machine I have a shell on :D`
`17:20.11`	`inz`	`eichi, johnx, I think there is one, that was just transferred to rm_you, dunno if he's got it up yet tho`
`17:20.37`	`johnx`	`aaah, right, the pack rat feed aggregator`
`17:20.49`	`johnx`	`I didn't know it could generate an RSS feed though`
`17:20.55`	`johnx`	`searches the logs`
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`17:33.14`	`*** join/#maemo ion_cu_vaca (n=man@74.93.190.107)`
`17:33.35`	`ion_cu_vaca`	`hi all`
`17:33.40`	`ion_cu_vaca`	`question about /sys/devices/platform/wlan-omap/cal_mac_address`
`17:34.49`	`ion_cu_vaca`	`if I replace the mac value in cal_mac_address with $(cat /home/user/MyDocs/mac.txt)`
`17:35.19`	`ion_cu_vaca`	`and have a mac address in mac.txt, will that brick my n800 or that should work fine?`
`17:35.36`	`johnx`	`probably won't brick it`
`17:36.10`	`johnx`	`you probably just want to change it early at boot though`
`17:36.24`	`johnx`	`or do you want to change it constantly?`
`17:36.55`	`ion_cu_vaca`	`yes, and I'm changing (same way) in /etc/init.d/rcS`
`17:37.19`	`ion_cu_vaca`	`ifconfig wlan0 down hw ether $(cat /home/user/MyDocs/mac.txt)`
`17:37.19`	`ion_cu_vaca`	`ifconfig wlan0 up`
`17:37.25`	`ion_cu_vaca`	`and that works`
`17:37.46`	`ion_cu_vaca`	`but in cal_mac_address I still have the mac unchanged`
`17:39.10`	`ion_cu_vaca`	`ok, I'll try it :-)`
`17:39.15`	`johnx`	`also, echoing to that file seems to make my MAC address 30:30:3A:30:30:3A`
`17:39.33`	`johnx`	`and I lose my connection to my AP of course too`
`17:40.12`	`johnx`	`I'm about 99% sure that playing around with /sys/devices/platform/wlan-omap/cal_mac_address won't do anything permanent`
`17:40.23`	`johnx`	`ideally you'd want to change it in the hidden NAND partition`
`17:40.40`	`johnx`	`I think someone managed to get enough access to recover lost lock codes, so maybe that's a place to start`
`17:41.06`	`*** join/#maemo sbodo_w (n=sbodo@15.26.30.213.rev.vodafone.pt)`
`17:41.11`	`tank-man`	`better not use my mac address`
`17:41.13`	`*** join/#maemo guardian (n=guardian@ANantes-252-1-42-230.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`17:41.28`	`johnx`	`what is it? 00:00:DE:AD:BE:EF ?`
`17:41.31`	`ion_cu_vaca`	`tank-man, I'm using random generated`
`17:41.32`	`ion_cu_vaca`	`:-)`
`17:41.43`	`johnx`	`or 00:00:C0:FF:EE ?`
`17:41.50`	`johnx`	`where's the fun in randomly generated`
`17:42.10`	`tank-man`	`is this for the wayfinder map?`
`17:42.17`	`ion_cu_vaca`	`yes`
`17:42.21`	`johnx`	`heh`
`17:42.45`	`johnx`	`ah, I thought this was something fun, like security testing...`
`17:43.01`	`ion_cu_vaca`	`the old version of map works if you just change the mac with ifconfig`
`17:43.28`	`ion_cu_vaca`	`but the new one is testing the mac in /sys/devices/platform/wlan-omap/cal_mac_address`
`17:44.04`	`johnx`	`wouldn't it be easier to do a string replace in the binary to have it read a different file?`
`17:45.45`	`ion_cu_vaca`	`modifying the exe is stealing`
`17:45.47`	`ion_cu_vaca`	`:-))`
`17:46.09`	`*** join/#maemo foka (n=foka@123.115.249.130)`
`17:46.11`	`tank-man`	`fuzzy line you walk there`
`17:46.53`	`GeneralAntilles`	`^`
`17:46.57`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Is there a line?`
`17:47.16`	`johnx`	`Johnny Cash says yes`
`17:47.24`	`Mousey`	`Johnny Cash is dead`
`17:47.41`	`johnx`	`and now ion_cu_vaca walks the line, though not as musically`
`17:48.21`	`lcuk`	`lbt, are you knocking about and since you have a bit of nounce about git is there any possibility that you could get git compiled for n8x0?`
`17:49.23`	`GreyFoxx`	`Anyone here using any of those foldable bluetooth keyboards?`
`17:49.36`	`GreyFoxx`	`I'm thinking of picking one up`
`17:50.48`	`tank-man`	`i have the apple bt one`
`17:51.52`	`*** join/#maemo ScreamingN800 (n=user@d83-191-8-19.cust.tele2.es)`
`17:52.00`	`GreyFoxx`	`tank: A foldable one? I didn't know they made them.`
`17:52.19`	`tank-man`	`no, just normal flat one`
`17:52.23`	`tank-man`	`:P`
`17:52.34`	`GreyFoxx`	`heh ok :)`
`17:52.37`	`*** part/#maemo ScreamingN800 (n=user@d83-191-8-19.cust.tele2.es)`
`17:52.52`	`GreyFoxx`	`I'm looking for something foldable to stuff in my backpack pocket`
`17:53.27`	`*** join/#maemo ScreamingN800 (n=user@d83-191-8-19.cust.tele2.es)`
`17:53.35`	`ion_cu_vaca`	`well, i replaced the mac from /sys/devices/platform/wlan-omap/cal_mac_address with $(cat /home/user/MyDocs/mac.txt), but after the reboot, in cal_mac_address I still have the n800's original mac`
`17:54.25`	`ion_cu_vaca`	`any ideas how to get a fake value in /sys/devices/platform/wlan-omap/cal_mac_address`
`17:54.44`	`ion_cu_vaca`	`?`
`17:56.18`	`johnx`	`it's set by cal, so maybe do a string edit of that binary to look someplace besides NAND for the MAC?`
`17:59.14`	`lcuk`	`GreyFoxx, i heard of a swap 800 for 810 program from some development company`
`17:59.30`	`*** join/#maemo richieeee72 (n=richard@host86-135-130-81.range86-135.btcentralplus.com)`
`17:59.48`	`lcuk`	`http://smancke.blogs.evolvis.org/2008/06/19/give-a-n800-get-a-n810/`
`18:00.01`	`lcuk`	`ooops, closed now`
`18:01.26`	`GreyFoxx`	`heh`
`18:02.04`	`ScreamingN800`	`loves the new bigger writeable initfs in Diablo`
`18:02.58`	`ion_cu_vaca`	`johnx, where is cal?`
`18:03.02`	`*** join/#maemo qwerty12_N800 (n=faheem@host-84-9-53-26.dslgb.com)`
`18:03.08`	`johnx`	`ion_cu_vaca, /mnt/initfs`
`18:03.15`	`*** join/#maemo sully__ (n=jsulliva@adsl-67-124-33-81.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net)`
`18:03.26`	`ion_cu_vaca`	`thanks`
`18:03.34`	`johnx`	`'cal' is the name of the thing, but not necessarily the file you need to edit`
`18:03.40`	`ScreamingN800`	`FINALLY! We can have ext3 filesystems booting. Journalling forever!`
`18:04.07`	`johnx`	`has been using ext3 as a bootable FS for months now`
`18:04.12`	`ion_cu_vaca`	`well, what's the file?`
`18:04.16`	`*** join/#maemo borism (n=boris@195-50-197-65-dsl.krw.estpak.ee)`
`18:04.36`	`johnx`	`ion_cu_vaca, there are a lot of files involved, find the one with the string you're interested in :)`
`18:04.43`	`johnx`	`I really haven't looked into this`
`18:05.20`	`qwerty12_N800`	`perks on cal. i looked into it a little bit`
`18:05.26`	`qwerty12_N800`	`*up`
`18:05.30`	`ScreamingN800`	`johnx is a smart bu**er --- Needs a tiny patch to /mnt/initfs/linuxrc`
`18:06.04`	`johnx`	`nah, I just used fanoush's little bootmenu modification`
`18:06.46`	`pupnik`	`GreyFoxx: i have the Thinkoutside Stowaway and i think it's excellent`
`18:06.56`	`ScreamingN800`	`Which you no longer need now /mnt/initfs can be mounted writeable`
`18:07.57`	`ScreamingN800`	`Just mount -o remount,rw /mnt/initfs and use you fave editor`
`18:08.18`	`johnx`	`fair enough`
`18:08.20`	`*** join/#maemo sully__ (n=jsulliva@adsl-67-124-33-81.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net)`
`18:08.28`	`johnx`	`I thought he made the bootmenu a little nice or something though`
`18:08.34`	`qwerty12_N800`	`cal isn't in initfs. it's not even a filesystem.`
`18:08.56`	`johnx`	`qwerty12_N800, hmm? what's not an FS?`
`18:09.14`	`GreyFoxx`	`pup: cool :)`
`18:09.21`	`qwerty12_N800`	`cal :). it's part of config partition`
`18:09.51`	`johnx`	`but there's also the things that access cal from initfs`
`18:09.54`	`*** join/#maemo jeddy3 (n=mattiast@78-69-111-16-no83.tbcn.telia.com)`
`18:09.54`	`*** join/#maemo foka (n=foka@123.115.249.130)`
`18:09.59`	`qwerty12_N800`	`i guess wlancond reads value of wlan mac from cal and sets it there`
`18:10.27`	`qwerty12_N800`	`but if you know how to edit cal itself, initfs is irrelevant`
`18:11.02`	`johnx`	`right, but all he care's about is the entry in /sys, not the actual mac address used for networking`
`18:11.12`	`johnx`	`modest built BTW, any takers?`
`18:11.24`	`ScreamingN800`	`johnx: No longer needed, (though nice). I just added a line "mount /dev/$root_dev -t ext3 -o rw,noatime,nodiratime /mnt/new_root" into mount_device and Bob is you mothers brother`
`18:11.34`	`ion_cu_vaca`	`qwerty12, so, where and what should I modify to get a fake mac in /sys/devices/platform/wlan-omap/cal_mac_address?`
`18:12.30`	`ScreamingN800`	`s/you/you're/`
`18:12.45`	`qwerty12_N800`	`ion_cu_vaca, you can't :(. the format of the cal isn't reversed.`
`18:13.00`	`qwerty12_N800`	`here are my notes on it : http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20465`
`18:13.45`	`johnx`	`right, and since it's poking at a raw NAND system, not a file there's no string to replace`
`18:13.45`	`qwerty12_N800`	`it's probably easier to reverse the map app itself and get it to read another file`
`18:13.56`	`johnx`	`made a mistake :)`
`18:14.08`	`johnx`	`which is what I suggested in the first place :)`
`18:14.24`	`ion_cu_vaca`	`yeah, johnx :-)`
`18:14.57`	`ScreamingN800`	`While I am here, if anyone else has a MicroSD in the Kingston Micro-FullSize converter.`
`18:15.32`	`ion_cu_vaca`	`what editor should I use to try to edit a binary file? vi?`
`18:15.47`	`qwerty12_N800`	`nope, an hex editor`
`18:15.50`	`ScreamingN800`	`Which is impossible to get of the slot having no thumbnail hole`
`18:15.53`	`johnx`	`hexedit is my choice`
`18:16.09`	`qwerty12_N800`	`if that fails, scream and load up ida`
`18:16.20`	`*** part/#maemo richieeee72 (n=richard@host86-135-130-81.range86-135.btcentralplus.com)`
`18:17.07`	`ScreamingN800`	`A little Cellotape tag made by doubling the stuff after the end of the card works a treat.`
`18:17.08`	`qwerty12_N800`	`i'll take a look at the map app too, i never used the trial despite activating it`
`18:18.03`	`*** join/#maemo vcgomes (n=Vinicius@200.184.118.132)`
`18:18.17`	`johnx`	`anyways ion_cu_vaca, you're on your own from here :)`
`18:18.32`	`ScreamingN800`	`G'nite all and sundry`
`18:20.28`	`ion_cu_vaca`	`johnx, I know and I think I'll give up for now. I don't have linux on my computer`
`18:21.33`	`qwerty12_N800`	`you don't need linux :(`
`18:21.36`	`qwerty12_N800`	`*:)`
`18:21.55`	`johnx`	`anyways, I'm off to bed anyways`
`18:21.58`	`johnx`	`sleeps, lurks`
`18:22.02`	`qwerty12_N800`	`night :)`
`18:22.11`	`johnx`	`'night qwerty12_N800`
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`18:24.24`	`ion_cu_vaca`	`tx johnx, gn.`
`18:24.47`	`*** join/#maemo crashanddie (n=crashand@ken66-2-88-160-23-179.fbx.proxad.net)`
`18:26.19`	`qwerty12_N800`	`hi crashanddie`
`18:31.46`	`*** join/#maemo dholbert (n=dholbert@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com)`
`18:32.03`	`*** join/#maemo foka (n=foka@123.115.249.130)`
`18:34.53`	`*** join/#maemo qgil (n=qgil@a88-112-27-165.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
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`18:37.05`	`qgil`	`Hi there`
`18:37.24`	`qgil`	`We are going to announce the registration of the Maemo Summit right now`
`18:37.37`	`qgil`	`only the time to put the links and write announcement & blog`
`18:37.50`	`qgil`	`you have the link with the info above in the topic`
`18:37.59`	`qgil`	`the registration form is here: https://maemo.org/news/events/registrations/register/2f91448248e711dd8bcbb7b26102ad49ad49.html`
`18:38.07`	`lcuk`	`waves`
`18:38.15`	`qgil`	`you can follow who is registered at https://maemo.org/news/events/maemo_summit-001/`
`18:38.44`	`qgil`	`if you find any issue please report bugs to http://bugs.maemo.org - Product Website component Calendar`
`18:38.51`	`lcuk`	`qgil, do I have to mention my workplace even though this has NOTHING to do with them?`
`18:38.58`	`qgil`	`up to you`
`18:39.04`	`qgil`	`this is just for information to others`
`18:39.11`	`lcuk`	`fair enough`
`18:39.27`	`*** join/#maemo MishaS (n=MishaS@a91-154-120-151.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`18:39.40`	`qgil`	`please ask all these questions in the wiki page, so we can answer there and all keeps well documented`
`18:42.25`	`lcuk`	`:( @ my karma`
`18:43.23`	`timeless`	`can i get someone to change the form`
`18:43.31`	`timeless`	`"The company that hires you"`
`18:43.37`	`timeless`	`s.b. /employs/`
`18:43.46`	`timeless`	`unless you can predict your next employer...`
`18:44.01`	`lcuk`	`wants to`
`18:44.02`	`qgil`	`timeless: there are typos that even myself can see :)`
`18:44.06`	`qgil`	`file bugs`
`18:44.12`	`qgil`	`I just didn't want to wait one day more`
`18:44.17`	`qgil`	`tomorrow I'm flying to GUADEC etc`
`18:44.18`	`timeless`	`qgil: but that'd be karma whoring :)`
`18:44.24`	`timeless`	`ok, enjoy guadec`
`18:45.03`	`timeless`	`tries to figure out what 'main volunteering project' means`
`18:45.09`	`timeless`	`doesn't speak this form's language`
`18:45.11`	`qgil`	`... and now I will ignore your some time until I get all this up and ready ;)`
`18:45.19`	`lcuk`	`qgil, one thing, related to linuxtag: could you find out when the reimbursement will be due, the cc is maxed here...`
`18:45.44`	`qgil`	`should be on its way, really`
`18:46.00`	`*** join/#maemo BabelO (n=Fabrice@lun34-2-82-238-28-28.fbx.proxad.net)`
`18:46.00`	`lcuk`	`ok cool :) thx`
`18:46.46`	`*** join/#maemo DaniloCesar (n=DaniloCe@nat/mandriva/x-74332ac9d227d072)`
`18:47.10`	`lcuk`	`timeless, i sussed it anyway, its what you are there to do/discuss/code/expand`
`18:48.56`	`lcuk`	`how do i put my user and date in the wiki`
`18:49.10`	`lcuk`	`its some combo of squiggles but i have no idea what`
`18:49.47`	`timeless`	`typically ~~~~ or something, isn't there a preview button?`
`18:50.15`	`lcuk`	`yer, ill see if it works - id tried 2 and 3`
`18:50.16`	`lcuk`	`..`
`18:50.59`	`GeneralAntilles`	`~~~~`
`18:50.59`	`infobot`	`ARGH!!! STOP IT generalantilles!!!`
`18:51.06`	`timeless`	`lol`
`18:51.09`	`qwerty12_N800`	`haha`
`18:51.13`	`GeneralAntilles`	`~$50`
`18:51.14`	`infobot`	`ACTION takes the cash and sucks generalantilles off`
`18:51.17`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Is funnier`
`18:51.25`	`GeneralAntilles`	`<PROTECTED>`
`18:51.45`	`qwerty12_N800`	`sucks off sounds like it's giving heads`
`18:52.14`	`GeneralAntilles`	`~$5`
`18:52.23`	`GeneralAntilles`	`~$20`
`18:52.27`	`GeneralAntilles`	`~$100`
`18:52.27`	`infobot`	`ACTION gives generalantilles full service!`
`18:52.49`	`qwerty12_N800`	`oh shit :D`
`18:53.00`	`timeless`	`um`
`18:53.01`	`timeless`	`https://maemo.org/news/events/registrations/registration/view/bf1e6a1e493011ddb23f551b85fcedc6edc6.html`
`18:53.07`	`timeless`	`Midgard CMS`
`18:53.08`	`timeless`	`Access denied`
`18:53.09`	`qwerty12_N800`	`infobot, you a boy or a girl?`
`18:53.10`	`infobot`	`I'm a transexual transvestite from transylvania.`
`18:53.13`	`timeless`	`it won't let me visit the registration page`
`18:53.23`	`*** join/#maemo red-zack (n=mk@p5085FAB9.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`18:54.16`	`lcuk`	`timeless: DENIED`
`18:54.28`	`lcuk`	`dances around cos he registered :P`
`18:56.22`	`timeless`	`Bug 3388 Submitted`
`18:56.48`	`qgil`	`timeless: appreciated`
`18:57.00`	`timeless`	`qgil: i don't like karma whoring :)`
`18:57.14`	`timeless`	`on that note, i think i'll release a blog :)`
`18:57.19`	`qgil`	`mmm in fact it shouldn't show up there`
`18:57.28`	`timeless`	`?`
`18:57.33`	`crashanddie`	`hey qwerty12_N800`
`18:58.01`	`qgil`	`no, I asked for it but only internally so we could have it as additional value when going through sponsoring requests`
`18:58.09`	`qwerty12_N800`	`crashanddie, hi :)`
`18:58.25`	`*** join/#maemo unixSnob (n=jgombos@66-81-75-219.bayarea.dialup.o1.com)`
`18:58.33`	`*** join/#maemo gomiam (n=Administ@84.79.25.26)`
`18:58.47`	`*** join/#maemo foka (n=foka@123.115.249.130)`
`19:00.56`	`*** join/#maemo DaniloCesar (n=DaniloCe@nat/mandriva/x-226808ed6e779f5d)`
`19:02.41`	`timeless`	`fwiw, i've updated http://viper.haque.net/~timeless/blog/144/ and http://viper.haque.net/~timeless/blog/143/ for people who don't recognize the terms :)`
`19:04.49`	`GeneralAntilles`	`lol`
`19:04.51`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Nice pictures`
`19:05.19`	`timeless`	`Bug 3389 has been added to the database`
`19:05.46`	`timeless`	`wishes someone would fix http://maemo.org`
`19:05.50`	`timeless`	`actually wait a second`
`19:05.55`	`timeless`	`i can fix bugs.maemo.org :)`
`19:06.09`	`qgil`	`https://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/maemo_summit-registration_open-_free.html`
`19:06.37`	`qgil`	`can you please spam the maemo lists and ITt? I'm going to blog about this right now - thanks!`
`19:07.36`	`qgil`	`an one important thing: those of you having invested soooooo many hours in this beloved Maemo platform: please register`
`19:08.08`	`qgil`	`https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_2008/Sponsorship is for contributors like you, if that helps`
`19:08.32`	`*** part/#maemo chille (n=chille@dogbert.swehack.se)`
`19:10.12`	`JamieBennett`	`:) Registered`
`19:12.24`	`pupnik`	`143 is great`
`19:13.58`	`Jaffa`	`re`
`19:14.06`	`lcuk`	`\o hi jaffa`
`19:14.22`	`Jaffa`	`qgil: I need to investigate flights from London to Berlin and then Berlin to Amsterdam/Eindhoven. Fun fun fun.`
`19:15.31`	`JamieBennett`	`I was looking at flights from Bristol to Berlin, Â£57 return!`
`19:15.40`	`*** join/#maemo fysa (n=j@6532148hfc121.tampabay.res.rr.com)`
`19:16.43`	`*** join/#maemo rlinfati (n=rlinfati@pc-186-77-104-200.cm.vtr.net)`
`19:16.55`	`*** join/#maemo __t (n=t@echelon.ext.c-base.org)`
`19:17.47`	`timeless`	`pupnik: feel fre to vote for 145 when planet finds it :)`
`19:17.59`	`timeless`	`if 143 is still in planet archives, you can vote for it too :)`
`19:18.37`	`*** join/#maemo shackan (n=frob@host61-141-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)`
`19:18.55`	`GeneralAntilles`	`karma whore!`
`19:19.06`	`timeless`	`hey, i deserve that karma! :)`
`19:19.13`	`GeneralAntilles`	`What is with crap like this? http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/maemo-planet.jpg Spammy. . . .`
`19:19.35`	`*** join/#maemo bmidgle1 (n=bmidgley@conference/mtnwestrubyconf/x-ff41f3a8d5edde03)`
`19:19.39`	`timeless`	`what is legacyofflies.com ?`
`19:20.15`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Plugin hosting website for Redline that I help setup and run http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redline_%28video_game%29`
`19:21.07`	`timeless`	`sighs`
`19:21.13`	`timeless`	`someone really needs to move planet off maemo.org`
`19:21.29`	`*** join/#maemo foka (n=foka@123.115.249.130)`
`19:23.03`	`RST38h`	`timeless: I have checked memory consumption with htop`
`19:23.04`	`qgil`	`Jaffa: https://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Maemo_Summit_2008#Travel`
`19:23.27`	`qgil`	`JamieBennett: please share also at https://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Maemo_Summit_2008#Travel`
`19:23.28`	`RST38h`	`timeless: browserd takes 6-7MB on the average when nothing is running`
`19:23.48`	`*** join/#maemo tbf (n=mathias@86.56.69.25)`
`19:23.53`	`timeless`	`i think that's reasonable/expected`
`19:23.59`	`RST38h`	`timeless: Is there any way to make it quit after 5-15 minutes?`
`19:24.05`	`timeless`	`does browser start faster today than it did in chinook?`
`19:24.10`	`RST38h`	`not really`
`19:24.21`	`timeless`	`that's somewhat unforunate..`
`19:24.25`	`bmidgle1`	`how do you guys type a \| into an n810?`
`19:24.37`	`timeless`	`maemo: depends if you're using en-gb or en-us for the keylayout`
`19:24.45`	`timeless`	`s/maemo/bmidgle1/`
`19:24.53`	`bmidgle1`	`en-us`
`19:24.57`	`RST38h`	`well, it would be fortunate to be able to make browserd quit if it is not being used for more than n minutes`
`19:25.02`	`timeless`	`but mostly you hit the &!ae button`
`19:25.19`	`timeless`	`rst38h: /maybe/`
`19:25.21`	`aquatix`	`bmidgle1: hit the Chr key`
`19:25.27`	`aquatix`	`and go on row down`
`19:25.27`	`RST38h`	`the way it is right now though, it does not speed things up much while eating 6MB of RAM`
`19:25.46`	`timeless`	`rst38h: is that resident?`
`19:26.00`	`bmidgle1`	`thanks aquatix`
`19:26.25`	`JamieBennett`	`qgil: ok`
`19:27.20`	`*** join/#maemo andre___ (n=andre@f053153127.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`19:27.31`	`bmidgle1`	`is obexsrv part of the base os? I installed something before the diablo upgrade and i'm trying to debug obex connection failures...`
`19:28.09`	`timeless`	`bmidgle1: if it's open source, http://mxr.maemo.org/ should answer the question`
`19:31.25`	`timeless`	`wah, people voted against wile e coyote`
`19:32.01`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Not Warner Bros fans, I suppose.`
`19:34.15`	`timeless`	`heh`
`19:34.22`	`timeless`	`i can't bury this item properly`
`19:37.11`	`*** join/#maemo TPC (n=andreas@pdpc/supporter/student/TPC)`
`19:39.53`	`timeless`	`sighs`
`19:39.55`	`timeless`	`garage sucks`
`19:40.02`	`timeless`	`or planet sucks`
`19:40.05`	`ricko73`	`lol`
`19:40.21`	`ricko73`	`so Diablo is the way to go?`
`19:40.31`	`lcuk`	`dont tell me that, im just trying to work out how to get my project into it`
`19:40.42`	`bmidgle1`	`diablo obex issues: obexsrv -l is being spawned on n810 but connecting from a trusted device fails`
`19:41.08`	`bmidgle1`	`from the hcidump, it looks like the n810 just drops the connection`
`19:41.26`	`timeless`	`lcuk: sorry, this isn't garage, it's a blog article about a garage :o`
`19:41.44`	`lcuk`	`:S oook`
`19:42.06`	`ricko73`	`could use a garage, about 20x22ft would be great`
`19:42.14`	`bmidgle1`	`strange, "-l" isn't a documented flag`
`19:42.20`	`bmidgle1`	`for obexsrv`
`19:44.28`	`Jaffa`	`qgil: presumably maemo summit registration is free, but doesn't get you into OSiM World for free? (Thinking, in particular about Ari's keynote)`
`19:45.18`	`JamieBennett`	`OSim is 399 euros+tax for a developer`
`19:45.26`	`JamieBennett`	`I'll be there`
`19:45.42`	`*** join/#maemo foka (n=foka@123.115.249.130)`
`19:46.12`	`Jaffa`	`Anyone know a cheap airline which operates between Amsterdam/Eindhoven and Berlin?`
`19:46.22`	`*** join/#maemo madhav (n=venu@122.167.104.6)`
`19:46.32`	`JamieBennett`	`KLM?`
`19:46.49`	`lorelei_`	`AirBerlin?`
`19:46.55`	`qgil`	`Jaffa: we still have to get a deal closed with the organizers`
`19:47.02`	`qgil`	`th developer sessions are entrance free`
`19:47.07`	`qgil`	`but this is not enough`
`19:47.09`	`Jaffa`	`qgil: interesting`
`19:47.22`	`qgil`	`"developer registration" is """"only""""" 300â¬ or so`
`19:47.30`	`qgil`	`a plan could be`
`19:47.34`	`madhav`	`gtk + xshm , how to use it?`
`19:47.39`	`RST38h`	`imeless: yes`
`19:47.44`	`Jaffa`	`JamieBennett/lorelei_: thanks. Additionally, anyone know which Berlin airport is best?`
`19:47.58`	`qgil`	`a bunch of guys with full registration covered, those that (we could say) really deserve the best`
`19:48.07`	`RST38h`	`timeless: it reports 11MB resident browserd, but only 6-7MB are actually private`
`19:48.13`	`madhav`	`any one have an answer?`
`19:48.14`	`lcuk`	`madhav, do you want to sit gtk ontop of a shm bitmap or just want a shm memory block within a gtk app?`
`19:48.22`	`qgil`	`then the rest a combination of dev sessions + the morning when ari has keynote`
`19:48.26`	`qgil`	`or something like that`
`19:48.34`	`qgil`	`let's see what they say`
`19:48.37`	`lorelei_`	`Jaffa: hmmm, actually AirBerlin doesn't do the Eindhoven-Berlin route..sorry :(`
`19:48.40`	`Jaffa`	`qgil: that'd be cool`
`19:48.59`	`qgil`	`and how many people requests sponsorship, how fits in our budget, how cheap flights and accommodation can be....`
`19:49.40`	`Jaffa`	`If I can find cheap enough flights, and a cheap hotel, I can probably get away without sponsorship`
`19:49.46`	`madhav`	`lcuk: i am basically looking for perf improvement..right now i am using pixbuf to show image for widget/window.. so thought using Xshm will improve perf (blitting would be better)`
`19:49.48`	`*** join/#maemo zs (n=zs@87-205-130-255.adsl.inetia.pl)`
`19:50.11`	`JamieBennett`	`Jaffa: I'm in the same boat, do it on the cheap if possible (OSim and Maemo summit)`
`19:50.12`	`RST38h`	`madhav: it does improve things but not by much`
`19:50.23`	`RST38h`	`madhav: direct fb access should be faster`
`19:50.47`	`lcuk`	`madhav, you will have trouble housing gtk within anything other than native x (from that i could gather)`
`19:51.17`	`lcuk`	`sdl uses a shm buffer if i remember rightly but that doesnt even bring remarkable perf benefits`
`19:51.31`	`lcuk`	`i managed to sidestep the issue by using the xv library and writing as YUV`
`19:51.51`	`madhav`	`xv library?`
`19:52.28`	`lcuk`	`yer, Xv overlay YUV bitplanes - what mplayer and the standard media player displays movies on (the only thing that moves quick...)`
`19:52.36`	`lcuk`	`http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUPp_mE7rwI`
`19:52.39`	`*** join/#maemo mardi__ (n=mardi_@host81-146-44-69.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net)`
`19:52.40`	`pupnik`	`will there be a maemo developers wet t-shirt competition?`
`19:53.05`	`Jaffa`	`Ewww`
`19:53.07`	`JamieBennett`	`Just bring the man boobs ;)`
`19:53.15`	`lcuk`	`throws up`
`19:53.41`	`madhav`	`lcuk: i have gtk widgets with pixbuf images as bkground/icon...will that improve.. with YUV?`
`19:53.49`	`lcuk`	`no...`
`19:54.18`	`lcuk`	`well, not unless you redesign SQL to use YUV, or adapt x11 to natively work in YUV or something like that`
`19:54.41`	`lcuk`	`not SQL - i meant GTK and/or SDL`
`19:54.48`	`lcuk`	`has databases on his mind`
`19:55.13`	`madhav`	`SDL with directfb?? something like that?`
`19:56.01`	`lcuk`	`not really, the framebuffer cannot display fullscreen RGB data fast enough. the only way round that is to lower the resolution (and solve the tearing issue) or screw everything and try YUV format`
`19:56.11`	`lcuk`	`look at my video i just posted to see where ive got up to`
`19:56.20`	`madhav`	`okay`
`19:56.59`	`lcuk`	`i will be releasing the source at some point (hopefully this evening if crashanddie hurries up ;)) but dont know if it will be generically useful at this point`
`19:58.06`	`lbt`	`:D`
`19:58.20`	`crashanddie`	`STOP HIGHLIGHTING ME, I'M GIVING A LESSON HERE`
`19:58.23`	`lcuk`	`ahhh lbt :D just the person i need to see. ...`
`19:58.26`	`pupnik`	`i'll release a new emulator youknowwhen`
`19:58.27`	`lcuk`	`PMSL!`
`19:58.32`	`wazd`	`Back again :) Hello everybody :)`
`19:58.35`	`crashanddie`	`gimme a sec, I'm giving 'em an exercise`
`19:58.49`	`lcuk`	`thats ok crashanddie, close your irc`
`19:59.24`	`lcuk`	`pupnik, so you are comin?`
`19:59.40`	`pupnik`	`no i have no idea where'll i'll be in sept`
`19:59.50`	`wazd`	`i'm planning to part Moscow to the Maemo Summit right after Queen concert :)`
`19:59.53`	`lbt`	`I only stopped by to say hi - Mrs lbt is calling...`
`19:59.57`	`lcuk`	`can see you riding across germany, laptop in hand "i got video out to work, it works, it works!"`
`20:00.03`	`pupnik`	`kisses to mrs lbt from me`
`20:00.03`	`lbt`	`was it quick lcuk?`
`20:00.11`	`madhav`	`lcuk: i had a look at that video...how did u achieve that perf..with xv YUV?`
`20:00.12`	`*** join/#maemo oilinki3 (n=oil@ppp-124-120-13-121.revip2.asianet.co.th)`
`20:00.14`	`lbt`	`pupnik: I'll enjoy that ;)`
`20:00.17`	`wazd`	`The information about hotels is extremely useful btw`
`20:00.22`	`lcuk`	`yes lbt, if you could have a look at getting git compiled for nit i would be most appreciative`
`20:00.27`	`lcuk`	`not now obviously`
`20:00.33`	`lbt`	`OK - why not...`
`20:00.40`	`lcuk`	`but i havent got enough installed here and i cant get my vmware working`
`20:00.41`	`lbt`	`on my todo then...`
`20:01.12`	`lcuk`	`excellent :) you go and service mrs lbt :P :D`
`20:01.13`	`lbt`	`I 'ported' ddd the other day - absolute doddle - just worked`
`20:01.30`	`madhav`	`lcuk:?`
`20:01.35`	`lcuk`	`ive got a feeling i could get git working, but it needs perl as one of its build steps`
`20:01.48`	`lcuk`	`madhav, yes`
`20:02.07`	`lcuk`	`i wrote the entire rendering engine, from pixels to rectangles to lines to font glyph blitting`
`20:02.13`	`lcuk`	`and all the classes on top`
`20:02.17`	`lcuk`	`has tired fingers`
`20:02.24`	`lbt`	`hmm - I wish SDK+ wasn't dead - that uses host apps.... still...`
`20:02.31`	`lbt`	`has gone now`
`20:03.02`	`madhav`	`lcuk: have u tried SDL with opengl backend?`
`20:03.37`	`lcuk`	`how would that help?`
`20:04.02`	`*** join/#maemo qwerty12_N800 (n=faheem@host-84-9-52-191.dslgb.com)`
`20:04.39`	`*** join/#maemo unixSnob (n=jgombos@66-81-75-63.bayarea.dialup.o1.com)`
`20:05.01`	`madhav`	`X gets accelerated with GPU i guess..`
`20:05.13`	`lcuk`	`wicked! i didnt know that`
`20:05.33`	`lcuk`	`awww man, theres me working my fingers to the bone when i couldv just done that :P`
`20:05.51`	`JamieBennett`	`git in scratchbox, yeah, done`
`20:05.58`	`GNUton`	`night`
`20:06.00`	`lcuk`	`we dont have drivers on this device for the powervr hardware on our machine`
`20:06.22`	`*** join/#maemo ralann (n=ralann@c-76-22-113-126.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)`
`20:06.23`	`madhav`	`powervr?`
`20:07.02`	`RST38h`	`madhav: the short story is that opengl in maemo is currently not accelerated`
`20:07.23`	`*** join/#maemo foka (n=foka@123.115.249.130)`
`20:08.14`	`madhav`	`RST38h: how about direct fb?`
`20:08.33`	`RST38h`	`direct fb is faster than going through gtk but it is not accelerated either`
`20:08.33`	`qwerty12_N800`	`that sucks too :/`
`20:08.48`	`lcuk`	`qwerty12_N800, what res is android running in?`
`20:09.07`	`qwerty12_N800`	`lcuk, no idea :/`
`20:09.26`	`lcuk`	`cos theres a yt vid of a rotating cube`
`20:09.28`	`wazd`	`800x480 I think`
`20:09.48`	`wazd`	`didn't noticed quaded-pixels`
`20:09.59`	`*** join/#maemo oilinki3 (n=oil@ppp-124-120-13-121.revip2.asianet.co.th)`
`20:10.02`	`lcuk`	`i cant see single pixels anyway so i wouldnt know`
`20:10.33`	`wazd`	`is ther eany screenshot software?)`
`20:10.46`	`wazd`	`It might give an answer)`
`20:10.50`	`qwerty12_N800`	`for android?`
`20:10.58`	`wazd`	`yep`
`20:11.21`	`glass`	`android on what device?`
`20:11.29`	`wazd`	`n8x0`
`20:11.46`	`glass`	`probably the native 800x480.. i'd guess`
`20:12.15`	`qwerty12_N800`	`i don't know for android, i don't think it's meant to allow direct access to things.`
`20:12.26`	`glass`	`it's meant to limit to their javalike vm`
`20:12.30`	`wazd`	`yep, maps software looks very sharp`
`20:12.37`	`wazd`	`so I think it's native`
`20:12.42`	`RST38h`	`btw, does android run normal midp apps?`
`20:12.48`	`glass`	`but still, it runnin on other than native reso would sound weird`
`20:12.58`	`glass`	`RST38h: well.. sorta no`
`20:13.05`	`lcuk`	`not really, none native res on this device looks fine`
`20:13.05`	`RST38h`	`sorta?`
`20:13.15`	`lcuk`	`ie 640*480 is indistinguishable`
`20:13.25`	`glass`	`RST38h: they'll have to ship a midp vm with the devices to be taken seriously..`
`20:13.27`	`qwerty12_N800`	`shouldn't be too straining to make a quick app to read /dev/fb2 using load-applet as example to make program to run over ssh`
`20:13.46`	`glass`	`RST38h: but haven't read of any yet`
`20:13.50`	`RST38h`	`glass: aren't midp classes sufficient though>`
`20:13.52`	`RST38h`	`?`
`20:14.00`	`GeneralAntilles`	`lcuk, how blind are you?`
`20:14.08`	`glass`	`RST38h: the android vm isn't normal java, it's converted bytecode to their own format`
`20:14.08`	`qwerty12_N800`	`brb, i'll try and get a screenshot`
`20:14.11`	`RST38h`	`that, btw, would have shown us how fast android really is`
`20:14.32`	`RST38h`	`glass: well, as long as there is convertion from java bytecode, it should not be a problem`
`20:14.35`	`*** join/#maemo jpuderer (n=jpuderer@76-10-136-190.dsl.teksavvy.com)`
`20:14.40`	`glass`	`RST38h: pre-conversion`
`20:14.48`	`glass`	`RST38h: the installer could do it i suppose`
`20:14.58`	`glass`	`RST38h: but like said, i've yet to read anything on it`
`20:15.03`	`lcuk`	`android isnt just java though is it - i thought it was an entire kernel platofmr with a java frontend`
`20:15.12`	`glass`	`RST38h: remember, lots of folk assumed iphone to have j2me apps too because thats just industry standard..`
`20:15.21`	`RST38h`	`lcuk: yes, but google oly wants you to see the frontend`
`20:15.24`	`glass`	`lcuk: 3rd party apps are pretty much supposed to just be java`
`20:15.31`	`*** join/#maemo Wikier (n=wikier@36.Red-80-37-218.staticIP.rima-tde.net)`
`20:15.35`	`RST38h`	`glass: well, iphone has no java, android is java`
`20:15.38`	`glass`	`lcuk: the kernel part customisation is meant just for device manufacturers etc`
`20:15.39`	`lcuk`	`but im seeing examples which are using opengles`
`20:16.01`	`glass`	`RST38h: yeah but the point is to not assume features, especially from first entries to market..`
`20:16.11`	`glass`	`lcuk: so?`
`20:16.14`	`RST38h`	`lcuk: a few people who complained about lack of native developemnt have been eventually kicked off andoird mailing lists`
`20:16.23`	`glass`	`lcuk: opengles like stuff can be doen in java you know`
`20:16.47`	`lcuk`	`yes, but doesnt that imply you have the low level library to support the java top layer?`
`20:17.11`	`glass`	`hmm?`
`20:17.31`	`glass`	`as in getting the powervr drivers from it?`
`20:17.36`	`glass`	`or what you're shooting at?`
`20:17.47`	`lcuk`	`now you are seeing why it has piqued my curiosity`
`20:18.00`	`glass`	`heh, well that is a possibility`
`20:18.02`	`*** part/#maemo JamieBennett (n=JamieBen@5ad9bcd7.bb.sky.com)`
`20:18.05`	`glass`	`i wouldn't count on it tho`
`20:18.23`	`pupnik`	`can someone quickly sum-up why one should care about android at all?`
`20:18.31`	`glass`	`lot of android hypers don't understand the level of sandboxing theres going to be..`
`20:18.43`	`glass`	`pupnik: because it's google.. but thats not really a reason to care at all`
`20:18.48`	`lcuk`	`pupnik, its multiplatform linux core`
`20:18.57`	`glass`	`pupnik: lot of people care because it's linux, but thats not really a reason to care at all either`
`20:19.13`	`Jaffa`	`pupnik: Google wanting to beat the growth of Windows Mobile with a fairly-open mobile platform, which seems to care about usable/pretty UI`
`20:19.26`	`glass`	`pupnik: theres no reason to care untill they start shipping devices in big numbers, if they ever do`
`20:19.41`	`Jaffa`	`It's all very buzzword compliant. Java. Google. Linux. Open.`
`20:19.47`	`pupnik`	`it's a whole linux OS running on a java vm?`
`20:19.53`	`glass`	`no..`
`20:19.57`	`glass`	`linux is just used to run the vm`
`20:19.58`	`lcuk`	`no, its a whole linux os`
`20:20.07`	`glass`	`and interact with hw and shit`
`20:20.10`	`Jaffa`	`It's a Java app environment running on a Linux OS`
`20:20.18`	`pupnik`	`ok ty`
`20:20.38`	`glass`	`and they delayed the first devices to late year`
`20:20.40`	`Jaffa`	`Or Java-language/API-based app environment`
`20:20.41`	`Toba`	`the thing about android`
`20:20.51`	`Toba`	`is that it's not fully 'open' in its development`
`20:20.52`	`lcuk`	`now if they have got drivers in there for the omap2420 and they work i would want to know why cant we have them in maemo`
`20:20.57`	`lcuk`	`all pie in sky atm`
`20:21.00`	`Toba`	`supposedly it will be fully once they release the big 1.0 (or something)`
`20:21.20`	`Toba`	`but i'll believe it when I see the gpl stamped all over it`
`20:21.30`	`glass`	`Toba: they totally bullshitted the openness on it's hype launch, even though pretty short afterwards after reading the api stuff etc it was obvious it doesn't matter at all for normal devs that it runs linux`
`20:21.41`	`Toba`	`yes. I know.`
`20:21.48`	`jott`	`lcuk: i doubt there will be omap2420 based android devices..`
`20:21.50`	`Jaffa`	`Toba: Maemo's not fully open in its development either (historically, at least); that hasn't stopped us`
`20:22.06`	`lcuk`	`jott, have you seen gl on 810 looking like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ae1EuH-59VE&feature=related`
`20:22.06`	`Toba`	`true true`
`20:22.56`	`lcuk`	`granted it might be my eyes, or just a partial display window updating, but that looks smoother than any 3d ive seen on device`
`20:23.05`	`Jaffa`	`lcuk: interesting`
`20:23.11`	`jott`	`lcuk: well i have seen quake, doom, etc on the devices`
`20:23.18`	`lcuk`	`lower resolution`
`20:23.27`	`lcuk`	`hence my initial question`
`20:23.29`	`Jaffa`	`lcuk: remember YouTube is 15fps and it looks a little slow-mo`
`20:23.36`	`jott`	`quake at full res is quite performant..`
`20:23.39`	`jott`	`and it's more than a cube ;)`
`20:23.41`	`lcuk`	`faster than nobounds`
`20:24.04`	`GeneralAntilles`	`thinks the Flash 10 beta doesn't work so well with YouTube. . . .`
`20:24.09`	`lcuk`	`jott, quake is not 3d in the same sense`
`20:24.11`	`lcuk`	`it doesnt use gl`
`20:24.17`	`GeneralAntilles`	`I see lots of green rectangles.`
`20:24.35`	`jott`	`lcuk: gl is just a language specification`
`20:24.59`	`ShadowJK`	`Maybe someone could poke in android and see if they find any powervr code?`
`20:24.59`	`jott`	`or api specification`
`20:25.03`	`glass`	`youtube vids arent much for judging quality/speed`
`20:25.14`	`lcuk`	`well mine looks good in it :)`
`20:25.21`	`jott`	`and andorid does a software rasterizer fallback`
`20:25.25`	`lcuk`	`its ok, it just looked faster and made me curious`
`20:25.33`	`jott`	`and i suppose it could be reasonable fast`
`20:26.15`	`ShadowJK`	`Oh, that rotating cube... My Nokia E70 phone, which does not have accelerated 3D... the Python SDK comes with a spinning cube opengles demo, and it's prefectly smooth on that phone... It has less powerful CPU than N810 iirc`
`20:26.52`	`*** join/#maemo qwerty12_N800 (n=faheem@host-84-9-52-191.dslgb.com)`
`20:27.15`	`jott`	`well, yeah just look at warzone 2100, quake 1/2, doom, etc to see what the n8x0 can do without hw accelerated gl..`
`20:27.27`	`wazd`	`oh, btw, is there any friendly way to exit android?)`
`20:27.43`	`lcuk`	`brb`
`20:30.27`	`qwerty12_N800`	`is it possible to make modules.dep for initfs? insmod /mnt/initfs/lib/ etc is getting boring now.`
`20:30.54`	`jott`	`qwerty12_N800: depmod?`
`20:31.20`	`RST38h`	`ShadowJK: Rotating cube is just 12 triangles`
`20:31.24`	`jott`	`like.. http://sse2.net/depmod`
`20:31.37`	`RST38h`	`ShadowJK: Twice less if you are culling them`
`20:31.41`	`qwerty12_N800`	`would I have to chroot for modprobe?`
`20:31.47`	`qwerty12_N800`	`thanks for depmod`
`20:32.00`	`jott`	`RST38h: you never know, you could subdivide the faces like hell g`
`20:32.19`	`jott`	`qwerty12_N800: i copied the modules to /lib`
`20:32.26`	`*** join/#maemo t_s_o (n=tso@211.84-49-138.nextgentel.com)`
`20:32.33`	`jott`	`you could equally symlink etc.`
`20:32.34`	`qwerty12_N800`	`ah, i see, nice idea`
`20:33.40`	`*** join/#maemo oilinki (n=oil@ppp-124-120-13-121.revip2.asianet.co.th)`
`20:33.59`	`jott`	`hm speaking of initfs, has someone a running toolchain for its uclibc?`
`20:34.07`	`*** join/#maemo foka (n=foka@123.115.249.130)`
`20:34.23`	`*** join/#maemo sven-tek (i=linux@p508ECB68.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`20:34.44`	`AStorm`	`jott: I had a similar one, but not the same`
`20:34.45`	`lcuk`	`jott, i gather you are coming to the summit`
`20:34.48`	`AStorm`	`newer uclibc and gcc`
`20:34.49`	`RST38h`	`jott: yes, but demo writers do not`
`20:35.00`	`jott`	`RST38h: yeah sure just kidding ;)`
`20:35.01`	`qwerty12_N800`	`fanoush filed a bug for it, would like to see outcome`
`20:35.33`	`jott`	`lcuk: yeah i guess so..`
`20:35.59`	`lcuk`	`what do you mean you guess so, you have to get us all from the airport and put all of us up at your house`
`20:36.20`	`jott`	`AStorm: hm yeah getting an abritrary uclibc toolchain is fine but do your binaries work in the diablo initfs?! ;P`
`20:36.33`	`AStorm`	`who cares?`
`20:36.38`	`AStorm`	`build statically`
`20:36.46`	`AStorm`	`they're not larger that way`
`20:37.18`	`AStorm`	`I wonder why they even put uclibc there`
`20:37.23`	`jott`	`nah i could build statically with a normal libc if i wouldn't care ..`
`20:37.27`	`AStorm`	`it's a huge waste of space`
`20:37.27`	`*** join/#maemo oilinki3 (n=oil@ppp-124-120-13-121.revip2.asianet.co.th)`
`20:37.28`	`qwerty12_N800`	`but initfs isn't brilliantly large though (round 4m now)`
`20:37.34`	`AStorm`	`jott: not really, glibc is huge`
`20:37.42`	`AStorm`	`and network code is still a lib, so not really static`
`20:38.27`	`jott`	`AStorm: still statically linking is mediocre..`
`20:38.34`	`AStorm`	`no, it's better for initfs`
`20:38.37`	`AStorm`	`you save a bit space`
`20:39.25`	`jott`	`eh? compared to dynamically linking against the existing uclibc?!`
`20:39.29`	`AStorm`	`yes`
`20:39.37`	`AStorm`	`initfs uses just a bit of uclibc`
`20:39.41`	`AStorm`	`no need for the whole thing`
`20:39.51`	`AStorm`	`even with static duplication, it's size savings`
`20:39.55`	`*** join/#maemo snowmoon-work (n=snowmoon@venus.smog.albany.edu)`
`20:39.56`	`AStorm`	`esp. thanks to compression`
`20:40.43`	`jott`	`doubts that this is generally true`
`20:40.55`	`AStorm`	`it usually is`
`20:41.01`	`AStorm`	`except for whole systems`
`20:41.10`	`AStorm`	`static is a pain to upgrade though`
`20:42.17`	`*** join/#maemo rlinfati (n=rlinfati@pc-186-77-104-200.cm.vtr.net)`
`20:42.53`	`AStorm`	`I even compared a static uclibc VPS for linux-vserver with a dynamic uclibc one`
`20:43.07`	`AStorm`	`the difference in size was close to 0`
`20:43.44`	`AStorm`	`(glibc one was much larger though, both static and dynamic, static being really huge)`
`20:45.39`	`*** join/#maemo whooper (n=whooper@c-76-112-96-81.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)`
`20:45.53`	`whooper`	`hey guys`
`20:45.58`	`whooper`	`new problem`
`20:46.23`	`jott`	`AStorm: hm i just build a printf("hello world") and the static one is 20kb the shared 3kb...`
`20:46.33`	`jott`	`(with uclibc 0.9.28)`
`20:47.35`	`whooper`	`i uninstalled android with the proper .deb`
`20:47.36`	`*** join/#maemo corq-FL (n=MI5@195.194.8.67.cfl.res.rr.com)`
`20:47.55`	`whooper`	`however, mplayer is still screwed up`
`20:48.24`	`whooper`	`is there any way to fix it without waiting for qwerty12 or completely reflashing?`
`20:49.28`	`*** join/#maemo p\| (n=kvirc@62.13.169.90)`
`20:49.41`	`*** join/#maemo blablabla (i=d8b798c0@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-a301a3dd09c04ee8)`
`20:50.07`	`*** part/#maemo qgil (n=qgil@a88-112-27-165.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`20:50.26`	`*** join/#maemo qwerty12_N800 (n=faheem@host-84-9-52-191.dslgb.com)`
`20:51.22`	`*** join/#maemo smackpotat (i=d8b798c0@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b47e7464752c82b1)`
`20:51.52`	`whooper`	`any idea?`
`20:53.20`	`smackpotat`	`where is the url with all the intall files`
`20:53.56`	`GeneralAntilles`	`http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/chinook/install/`
`20:54.11`	`qwerty12_N800`	`whooper, penguinbait made a deb which flashes back old kernel.`
`20:54.44`	`*** join/#maemo flo_lap (n=fuchs@f048033065.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`20:55.06`	`qwerty12_N800`	`i'm fixing that in the next kernel which should be released tomorrow (just gotta wait for my n810 tester :))`
`20:56.18`	`*** join/#maemo foka (n=foka@123.115.249.130)`
`20:56.53`	`smackpotat`	`I was thinking about the url at the top that had.../daveh...`
`20:57.18`	`smackpotat`	`..../dave/...`
`20:59.05`	`Knirch`	`all urls with dave should result in 403`
`20:59.10`	`Knirch`	`crawls back under rock`
`20:59.34`	`GeneralAntilles`	`gronmayer.com/it ?`
`20:59.39`	`GeneralAntilles`	`mxr.maemo.org?`
`21:00.19`	`qwerty12_N800`	`~lart myself for moving my old initfs.jffs2 onto the computer, i need to jack the diablo version of kotc's colour mod`
`21:00.19`	`infobot`	`whips out his power stapler and staples myself's foot to the floor for moving my old initfs.jffs2 onto the computer, i need to jack the diablo version of kotc's colour mod`
`21:01.46`	`*** join/#maemo eichi (n=eichi@p3EE04C74.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`21:03.43`	`RST38h`	`Women working on Debian have been getting death threats from a nut job who believes they're killing free software.Á`
`21:03.44`	`Veggen`	`woa. my n810 says "no availabe programs". something's wrong.`
`21:03.59`	`Veggen`	`(on "installable programs" screen)`
`21:03.59`	`RST38h`	`GA: See, how easy you have it with Maemo Wiki?`
`21:04.11`	`Jaffa`	`RST38h: whoa`
`21:04.14`	`towo`	`Veggen: Quick, the world is ending!`
`21:04.16`	`towo`	`Load the backup!`
`21:04.48`	`qwerty12_N800`	`RST38h, is the retard named?`
`21:05.00`	`RST38h`	`Doesn't beat the "Massacre people, suicide, go to heaven, kill God" guy, but gets pretty close`
`21:05.13`	`towo`	`Named retards? Is that something of a special class of enemy, like named monsters?`
`21:05.14`	`RST38h`	`qwerty: Of course not`
`21:05.16`	`*** join/#maemo mgedmin (n=mg@musmire.b4net.lt)`
`21:05.47`	`qwerty12_N800`	`sorry,i thought they know who done it.`
`21:06.04`	`RST38h`	`qwerty: But they would never say. Against Western sensibilities.`
`21:06.09`	`jott`	`and sometimes people are too stupid and leave obvious traces..`
`21:06.25`	`RST38h`	`Shouldn't be difficult to trace down, most of the time`
`21:08.29`	`qwerty12_N800`	`heh, ke-recv-test is fun to play with, thx nokia for ossing it.`
`21:08.50`	`Veggen`	`there's something wrong with resolving.`
`21:08.53`	`AStorm`	`jott: bad comparison`
`21:08.58`	`AStorm`	`most apps aren't hello world`
`21:09.01`	`AStorm`	`:)`
`21:09.03`	`*** join/#maemo bex (n=bex@adsl-68-74-145-168.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net)`
`21:09.18`	`AStorm`	`they're more complex, yet still use little of libc's power`
`21:09.29`	`AStorm`	`so, in some situations, you can save space`
`21:09.49`	`AStorm`	`esp. with a compressed filesystem (same code produces similar blocks which compress well)`
`21:10.17`	`Jaffa`	`is registered for the summit :-) Cheap flight from Stansted to Berlin with Ryanair for 10ukp (not booked yet in case Quim says stuff about the stuff on Wednesday), found a nice Ibis Hotel for 74eur/night and then rail service from Berlin to Appledoorn for 36eur.`
`21:10.20`	`AStorm`	`note, that for 3 KB hello world you need 900 KB of libc`
`21:10.22`	`AStorm`	`;P`
`21:10.29`	`AStorm`	`or more`
`21:10.42`	`jott`	`AStorm: well the (uc)libc is already there...`
`21:11.51`	`Veggen`	`hmmf. dnsmasq doesn't work.`
`21:13.13`	`AStorm`	`jott: but it's large, compare static busybox to dynamic one`
`21:13.15`	`AStorm`	`:)`
`21:13.26`	`AStorm`	`(and it's the most bulk of initfs)`
`21:13.38`	`*** join/#maemo Ivan_Chelubeev (n=ijon@ppp85-141-83-83.pppoe.mtu-net.ru)`
`21:13.44`	`GeneralAntilles`	`RST38h, hehe, I guess so.`
`21:13.45`	`AStorm`	`you lose like, 30 KB vs 900 KB of libc`
`21:14.00`	`qwerty12_N800`	`what does apt-get update say the ip is? atarii on here fixed his problem of the repo "having" 1.0.0.0 ip by putting dns server entry manually into resolver.conf`
`21:14.11`	`AStorm`	`that's one reason why busybox is one executable - to save space in static build`
`21:14.11`	`qwerty12_N800`	`@Veggen`
`21:15.14`	`jott`	`AStorm: what's your point? i have a ready libuClibc.* on the device, my claim was, "i will save space if i compile dynamically against this existing lib compared to statically linking against it" and i still don't think you proved me wrong..`
`21:15.29`	`Veggen`	`qwerty: it couldn't resolve anything.`
`21:15.31`	`Veggen`	`at all.`
`21:16.00`	`Veggen`	`afraid I had no energy to debug, I've had a few beers, but next time ;)`
`21:16.06`	`Veggen`	`(I rebootet. Shame on me)`
`21:16.22`	`AStorm`	`jott: just rebuild busybox statically (and add some more utils while you're at it)`
`21:16.32`	`AStorm`	`and dropbear`
`21:16.47`	`Veggen`	`I restarted dnsmasq without it helping.`
`21:16.55`	`AStorm`	`most other tools are not needed (maybe text2screen, but I think that has source code available too)`
`21:17.13`	`AStorm`	`there really isn't much on the initfs`
`21:17.25`	`jott`	`bme? dsme?`
`21:17.38`	`AStorm`	`static`
`21:17.40`	`AStorm`	`:)`
`21:17.42`	`jott`	`still i don't want to rebuild the initfs`
`21:17.47`	`AStorm`	`do as you wish`
`21:17.54`	`jott`	`dsme is not static, it uses serveral sos..`
`21:17.57`	`AStorm`	`it's uclibc 0.9.28`
`21:18.07`	`AStorm`	`just drop its headers and you're done`
`21:18.15`	`jott`	`and even bme is dynamically linked`
`21:18.17`	`AStorm`	`and you can build against it`
`21:18.27`	`AStorm`	`heh, you could relink it statically even`
`21:18.33`	`AStorm`	`not sure how to do that with ld though`
`21:18.35`	`jott`	`bleh stop talking bs`
`21:19.13`	`jott`	`you are wrong i accept your apology :p`
`21:19.57`	`AStorm`	`no, I'm not ;P`
`21:20.04`	`AStorm`	`I did a lot of crazy stuff back then`
`21:20.15`	`AStorm`	`can't remember though how to relink it`
`21:20.34`	`jott`	`bleh that has nothing to do with anything`
`21:20.50`	`AStorm`	`yup`
`21:21.00`	`AStorm`	`yes, you only need headers for that uclibc`
`21:21.13`	`AStorm`	`it's not patched in any special way`
`21:21.27`	`AStorm`	`would have to check which exact version`
`21:21.27`	`jott`	`and the right gcc :p`
`21:21.43`	`AStorm`	`yes`
`21:21.45`	`AStorm`	`close enough`
`21:21.53`	`AStorm`	`arm-pc-linux-gnueabi`
`21:22.13`	`AStorm`	`the same as in scratchbox`
`21:22.18`	`AStorm`	`same version too`
`21:23.27`	`AStorm`	`so, if you just dump uclibc 0.9.28 into scratchbox, you have the right toolchain ;>`
`21:23.41`	`AStorm`	`no special stuff needed`
`21:24.08`	`AStorm`	`I'd personally replace that handicapped build of busybox with a real one`
`21:24.41`	`qwerty12_N800`	`tar really needs to be built for initfs`
`21:24.57`	`AStorm`	`yup, and vi`
`21:24.57`	`*** join/#maemo foka (n=foka@124.64.109.112)`
`21:25.00`	`jott`	`AStorm: ok, will try it this way.. thanks`
`21:25.02`	`AStorm`	`with more features`
`21:32.42`	`*** join/#maemo bergie (n=bergie@cs181192153.pp.htv.fi)`
`21:46.45`	`*** join/#maemo foka (n=foka@124.64.109.112)`
`21:47.14`	`*** join/#maemo tw-nym (n=silverfi@c-98-223-123-112.hsd1.in.comcast.net)`
`21:51.22`	`tw-nym`	`This may be the wrong place for the question but is there any way to flash an N810 from mac os x 10.5? I try to run flasher-2.0.macosx and it tells me "Bad CPU type in executable" which I assume means "this was compiled for PPC"`
`21:51.38`	`*** join/#maemo svu (n=svu@89.100.3.26)`
`21:52.12`	`GAN800`	`it works fine on Intel.`
`21:52.29`	`GAN800`	`Try renaming it to flasher-2.0?`
`21:52.37`	`tw-nym`	`I'm using an intel mac.`
`21:52.38`	`tw-nym`	`Hrm.`
`21:52.39`	`tw-nym`	`ok.`
`21:52.58`	`GAN800`	`chmod +x ?`
`21:53.07`	`tw-nym`	`No, there'd be a different error.`
`21:53.14`	`tw-nym`	`The perms are right.`
`21:53.26`	`GAN800`	`it was something stupid`
`21:53.26`	`tw-nym`	`just checked. Tried renaming too, it didn't run.`
`21:53.43`	`GAN800`	`but I'm blanking on what it was`
`21:53.49`	`Knirch`	`does macosx has some standard identification utils, like 'file' ?`
`21:54.02`	`GAN800`	`~maemo-irclogs`
`21:54.03`	`tw-nym`	`file flasher-2.0`
`21:54.03`	`tw-nym`	`flasher-2.0: Mach-O executable ppc`
`21:54.18`	`tw-nym`	`So maybe I don't have rosetta installed properly?`
`21:54.33`	`GAN800`	`Ah, you know what, I think safari sometimes mangles the file`
`21:54.38`	`GAN800`	`~maemo-logs`
`21:54.38`	`infobot`	`i heard maemo-logs is IRC channels are logged at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog`
`21:54.50`	`GAN800`	`Redownload it?`
`21:54.56`	`tw-nym`	`Ah... ok, I'll use FF to get it.`
`21:55.13`	`GAN800`	`Solution is probably in those logs if you want to google them.`
`21:55.14`	`lcuk`	`ok, let me ask this one simple license related question and my decision will be complete`
`21:56.30`	`*** join/#maemo smackpotato (n=user@os-dsl-0191.bmts.com)`
`21:57.01`	`lcuk`	`if i release liqbase under the gpl. as it stands i am still able to still grab all my code and compile it up inside a piece of software which i am commissioned by a company to create and have that as proprietary. however what i cannot do is take any additional modifications which i merge into the main gpl version by other people. and the modifications by others remain as gpl`
`21:57.50`	`GeneralAntilles`	`You can do whatever the hell you want with the code you wrote`
`21:58.00`	`GeneralAntilles`	`You can't do whatever the hell you want with patches people submit.`
`21:58.01`	`tw-nym`	`not a lawyer but that sounds correct. You can relicense whatever code you write however you please.`
`21:58.12`	`lcuk`	`GeneralAntilles, NO, i cannot`
`21:58.29`	`*** join/#maemo Zic (n=zic@ubuntu/member/zic)`
`21:58.34`	`lcuk`	`if people submit patches to a gpl project those patches are owned by the developer who submitted them`
`21:58.36`	`GeneralAntilles`	`One solution is to require all patches to submitted under a license that would let you do that.`
`21:58.52`	`lcuk`	`no, i would not attempt to do that`
`21:59.02`	`lcuk`	`i know which is my code and svn/git will tell me`
`21:59.08`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Or just maintain a private fork.`
`21:59.08`	`lcuk`	`i know what i want to use in other words`
`21:59.33`	`lcuk`	`thats not the problem gen, im just being cautious`
`21:59.42`	`lcuk`	`and garage tells me i have to choose a license`
`21:59.52`	`lcuk`	`not multiple licenses :) and the gpl is right`
`22:01.24`	`*** join/#maemo gomiam (n=magao@84.79.25.26)`
`22:01.46`	`lcuk`	`GeneralAntilles, i dont want to burden the developers who may choose to assist me in creating great apps for maemo platform`
`22:02.10`	`lcuk`	`but if i am asked to do something proprietary for a company i can also still do that but i have to know whats mine`
`22:03.02`	`lcuk`	`is trying to improve collaboration not stifle it`
`22:03.26`	`GeneralAntilles`	`lol`
`22:05.02`	`*** join/#maemo pcfe (n=pcfe@a88-114-150-225.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`22:07.09`	`tw-nym`	`GAN800: You were exactly right, safari mangled the binary.`
`22:08.59`	`crashanddie`	`notice his arrogance`
`22:09.00`	`jott`	`lcuk: otoh you could also choose a bsd-like license.. but gpl will ensure you'll always get the code from "forks"...`
`22:09.14`	`crashanddie`	`when he says "those who want to assist me in creating great apps"`
`22:09.41`	`*** join/#maemo sully_ (n=jsulliva@nmd.sbx05710.oaklaca.wayport.net)`
`22:09.57`	`crashanddie`	`like, we're never going to be able to make anything great`
`22:10.12`	`crashanddie`	`only he can... And he might need some assistance at one point`
`22:10.48`	`crashanddie`	`I told you lcuk, you're going to have to get a new house... The one you have is starting to be small with such a huuuge ego :D`
`22:11.28`	`timelyx`	`Jaffa: there are a couple of hostels in Berlin, i stayed at one a month or so ago...`
`22:11.47`	`pupnik`	`i found some nice empty areas around the tracks behind the zoo :P`
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`22:13.53`	`GeneralAntilles`	`tw-nym, it's server-side weirdness. :\`
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`22:14.44`	`lcuk`	`crashanddie im crap at lots of things in life, but i have a knack of finding a way of doing things. lots of apps are much better than anything i will ever build - hence my incomplete modules. but i have found a way to do this and i havent seen anyone else stepping up to even try`
`22:14.46`	`GeneralAntilles`	`pupnik will rent you a sleeping bag for $10/hour`
`22:15.44`	`lcuk`	`was very unhappy with the graphics of this nokia, but damn it looks good to me now :)`
`22:17.23`	`crashanddie`	`lcuk, like I said, you're a maniac for doing what you did. Not a lot of us would have the moral capacity to think all this over, and keep such a project over the course of a few years.`
`22:18.01`	`lcuk`	`this is only the first part though, the facilitator so to speak`
`22:18.12`	`lcuk`	`i cant do anything if i cant draw on the screen fast enough`
`22:18.42`	`crashanddie`	`lcuk, plus, there's not a lot to step up, considering you "already own the niche", so either we wait for you to release something we'll be able to use, and go forward, all of us, either we start our own project, we're going to fuck everything over most probably, and it'll be yet another deadborn project`
`22:18.43`	`lcuk`	`and tbh, i dont care if its used - it was done so i could expand on things`
`22:19.09`	`lcuk`	`good point, but competition makes life interesting`
`22:19.25`	`lcuk`	`i really thought all the angles wouldv been done by now - we have been doing computer graphics for years`
`22:19.42`	`lcuk`	`i was genuinely shocked when i realised it was so slow`
`22:19.52`	`timelyx`	`jott: choosing gpl isn't really helpful`
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`22:20.03`	`timelyx`	`because it ensures he gets code he can't use elsewhere from the forks`
`22:20.17`	`timelyx`	`bsd means less guarantees, but whatever comes should be usable anywhere`
`22:21.00`	`lcuk`	`timelyx, gpl will be fine, i know what i need and anything else built is niceness required for other projects - i just needed to draw lines tbh`
`22:21.08`	`lcuk`	`and fonts*`
`22:21.37`	`jott`	`timelyx: yes, i know.`
`22:22.44`	`jott`	`(that's why i came up with bsd in the first place ;-)`
`22:22.51`	`lcuk`	`if it can be shaped into a library and usable for all the nice projects ive heard about (ie if its easy enough for others to use and does things in the general case) then thats an added bonus`
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`22:25.38`	`flo_lap`	`then consider to use lgpl`
`22:26.42`	`lcuk`	`flo, hi, its not a library yet, its just a set of functions. it needs a lot of moulding but i want it out there`
`22:27.20`	`lcuk`	`im sick of hearing how fluid the iphone is, and want to see if we can do similar :)`
`22:27.21`	`jott`	`lgpl would bring no benefit when he wants to accept patches (without extra constraints) and still use it in an closed app..`
`22:27.44`	`flo_lap`	`lcuk: but if you have the idea in mind to shape it into a library it would be a useful thing`
`22:28.22`	`flo_lap`	`jott: uh?`
`22:29.22`	`jott`	`flo_lap: he might want to use his code base in an closed source project..`
`22:29.33`	`lcuk`	`is it a compatable step to license liqbase as gpl then at a later date create a standalone liqlib (or whatever) and license that as lgpl, or are gpl<->lgpl transfers not permitted`
`22:29.58`	`jott`	`lcuk: not when you accepted "gpl" patches`
`22:29.59`	`lcuk`	`jott, yes but i know which code is mine and i understand the implications`
`22:30.06`	`lcuk`	`ok`
`22:30.13`	`flo_lap`	`lcuk: you can do this, but accepting patches is hard then`
`22:30.47`	`lcuk`	`alright, so if i start as lgpl it is clearer for all concerned`
`22:30.50`	`jott`	`so you have to ask every contributor if he/she is fine with lgpl ..`
`22:30.56`	`flo_lap`	`that's why lgpl is easier`
`22:31.04`	`jott`	`does not like lgpl`
`22:31.11`	`lcuk`	`:D`
`22:31.23`	`lcuk`	`i could use the microsoft shared license`
`22:31.24`	`jott`	`gpl < bsd < lgpl ;p`
`22:31.26`	`lcuk`	`ducks`
`22:31.30`	`jott`	`erm`
`22:31.35`	`flo_lap`	`jott: we ran into this with gpe... splittinc code from applications into libraries. that's a pain.`
`22:31.41`	`jott`	`otherway around ;)`
`22:32.06`	`jott`	`yeah just stick with gpl at a whole or use bsd ;p`
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`22:33.52`	`lcuk`	`flo_lap, since you have a bit of experience, would there be implications if someone wanted to include (for instance) GPE sync or some other component`
`22:33.56`	`flo_lap`	`jott: I agree lgpl is not perfect, but it is easy to understand, widely used and most important: made for exactly this purpose: libraries`
`22:34.23`	`jott`	`flo_lap: yes, it has it purpose ;)`
`22:34.58`	`lcuk`	`i've dreaded this conversation more than actually coding it`
`22:35.15`	`flo_lap`	`lcuk: well... gpe has the same license model gnome uses: gpl for applications and lgpl for libraries.`
`22:35.18`	`lbt`	`:)`
`22:35.29`	`lbt`	`I too think lgpl is appropriate for a library`
`22:35.44`	`lcuk`	`or a future library`
`22:36.04`	`flo_lap`	`lcuk: that's what we missed to take care of`
`22:36.25`	`jott`	`thinks there are people confusing the l in "lgpl" with "library" :p`
`22:36.31`	`flo_lap`	`lcuk: so we had a pile of contributors who had to change their codes licenese`
`22:36.57`	`derf`	`lcuk: What's the reason you want non-GPL'd applications to be able to use your code?`
`22:37.00`	`lbt`	`lcuk: have you actually carefully read the GPL and LGPL?`
`22:37.17`	`flo_lap`	`jott: iirc that was the purpose ;)`
`22:37.33`	`flo_lap`	`argh! another license discussion!`
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`22:37.55`	`jott`	`http://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-not-lgpl.html :)`
`22:37.56`	`jott`	`hides`
`22:38.00`	`lbt`	`flo_lap: but this time there is code attached - so it's fair :)`
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`22:38.16`	`lcuk`	`yes lbt`
`22:38.34`	`lbt`	`OK - just checking...`
`22:38.56`	`lbt`	`it's been a while - and I've not read v3 yet :)`
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`22:40.21`	`lbt`	`none of this really matters until you get patches`
`22:40.23`	`jott`	`infects lcuk with a highly contagious gpl virus`
`22:41.08`	`lbt`	`releasing gpl code will prevent people from legally using it in commercial apps`
`22:41.10`	`lcuk`	`you are right lbt, but i am at the garage page and its forcing my hand`
`22:41.28`	`lcuk`	`no, it will prevent them from using it in closed commercial apps`
`22:41.30`	`lbt`	`from prior discussions I think gpl`
`22:41.51`	`lcuk`	`nothing wrong with selling a gpl program`
`22:42.17`	`lbt`	`mmm do you want help picking a license or arguing pedantry? :)`
`22:42.32`	`lcuk`	`:P`
`22:42.50`	`lbt`	`if you pick GPL now then you can pick LGPL later`
`22:43.10`	`lbt`	`if you pick LGPL now then other people can take the LGPL and use it in closed apps.`
`22:43.12`	`lcuk`	`the license which stood out when reading was the artistic license. this fits with what i thought, but would not necessarily fit with other existing applications`
`22:43.17`	`lbt`	`is my understanding`
`22:43.33`	`lcuk`	`ie, if somebody decided to patch fbreader to use liqbase rendering`
`22:43.51`	`lcuk`	`using the binary is not the issue`
`22:44.44`	`lcuk`	`lgpl does solve that case..`
`22:44.47`	`lbt`	`I think artistic is almost public domain (I'm not a license analyst) - very liberal (and 'nice') but not protective`
`22:45.06`	`jott`	`and if you are fine that others use your code in closed commercial apps, then bsd-like is the easiest solution`
`22:45.16`	`lbt`	`ISTR you wanted to reserve the right to be the only one allowed to use the code in a closed app`
`22:45.27`	`jott`	`you can accept patches and later turn into lgpl/gpl without much hassle or use it in your own closed app`
`22:45.31`	`lbt`	`if that is correct then it's important`
`22:45.37`	`lbt`	`(in choosing)`
`22:46.18`	`lcuk`	`ISTR has thrown me`
`22:46.22`	`lbt`	`jott: I think the key thing is "does lcuk want to make it hard to use his code in closed apps"`
`22:46.36`	`jott`	`yeah, if not, then i would thing bsd is the better choice`
`22:46.38`	`lbt`	`I seem to recall (we chatted about this a few days ago)`
`22:46.51`	`jott`	`as he can accept patches and still use it in his private closed project`
`22:47.03`	`lbt`	`yes - but`
`22:47.27`	`lbt`	`anyone else can take his code and use it in a closed app too`
`22:47.54`	`lbt`	`so lcuk - do you want (at the moment) to allow or hinder use of your code in other peoples closed apps?`
`22:47.55`	`jott`	`yes.. also with lgpl...`
`22:48.24`	`jott`	`that's why i vote for either gpl or bsd :)`
`22:48.29`	`lbt`	`jott: hence I suggest GPL is a 'safer' first release (until patches)`
`22:48.56`	`lcuk`	`yes, i want to hinder closed apps`
`22:49.02`	`jott`	`well then use gpl`
`22:49.09`	`lbt`	`yep`
`22:49.10`	`jott`	`easy as that ;)`
`22:49.12`	`lbt`	`no brainer`
`22:49.20`	`lcuk`	`right, decision made :) thank you`
`22:49.24`	`lcuk`	`canola is #1`
`22:49.41`	`lcuk`	`if they want it they can open themselves up`
`22:49.42`	`jott`	`hah infect canola with gpl :P`
`22:49.45`	`lcuk`	`if not, tough`
`22:50.00`	`lbt`	`nb, in the future you could license your code to a closed app even if you release it GPL - cf Qt`
`22:50.42`	`lcuk`	`yes lbt, anything coded right up until patch day is clean and untainted. anything after the waters are muddy, but git is meant to help, hence the request earlier`
`22:50.56`	`lbt`	`src dl'ed`
`22:51.04`	`lcuk`	`:) thanks`
`22:51.27`	`lcuk`	`doesnt even know if canola needs it you know`
`22:52.01`	`lcuk`	`anyway, ill go and scrub the code and add some headers`
`22:52.07`	`lcuk`	`thank you all`
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`23:14.37`	`whooper`	`hullo`
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`23:15.03`	`Maximander`	`hello`
`23:15.07`	`lbt`	`HULLO hullo hull hu`
`23:15.18`	`Maximander`	`I keep getting sb2 errors`
`23:15.30`	`Maximander`	`when trying to configure`
`23:15.34`	`Maximander`	`"checking whether the C compiler works... configure: error: cannot run C compiled programs."`
`23:15.56`	`Maximander`	`including when I do maemo-rootstrap install chinook40_armel`
`23:17.17`	`Maximander`	`in the program i was building, ./configure ran fine, but sb2 ./configure encountered that error, so I went to re-init sb2, and got the error again during sb2-init`
`23:17.58`	`lbt`	`sorry Maximander, I had LD_PRELOAD issues with sb2 and haven't yet fixed them so I can't help :(`
`23:25.33`	`Maximander`	`where is config.log written?`
`23:25.37`	`Maximander`	`during sb2-init`
`23:28.16`	`Maximander`	`solved: echo 4096 \| sudo tee /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr`
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`23:54.25`	`lbt`	`night all`
`23:54.37`	`lbt`	`lcuk - git on its way`
`23:54.55`	`lcuk`	`ahhhh cool, thank you v muchly`
`23:55.40`	`lcuk`	`i was falling asleep at the desk when you binged`
`23:56.47`	`lcuk`	`lbt, c++ compiles slower than straight c :(`
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