| 00:03.24 | GAN800 | Where the hell are you? |
| 00:03.44 | GAN800 | Hell? |
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| 00:33.12 | sjgadsby | I parsed that as "New Mae Mouser" at first. |
| 00:33.24 | summatusmentis | me too |
| 00:46.38 | newmaemouser | You're not the first today :) |
| 00:47.21 | summatusmentis | I actually asked what a mae mouser was before I realized |
| 00:47.21 | newmaemouser | I should probably get a proper name soon |
| 00:48.22 | lcuk | be quick, they tend to stick |
| 00:48.31 | lcuk | is still in his temp name |
| 00:48.49 | summatusmentis | I was wondering what your nick was about lcuk |
| 00:49.10 | lcuk | well its not a typo on luck, the uk is where i am from :) |
| 00:49.33 | summatusmentis | oh, that makes sense |
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| 01:13.42 | nelson | ds3: guess what? |
| 01:14.12 | nelson | ds3: a four-cell battery pack with *alkaline* D cells powers the NIT just fine. |
| 01:14.15 | rm_you | GAN800: morning |
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| 01:14.59 | GAN800 | evening |
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| 02:16.13 | GeneralAntilles | sjgadsby, https://wiki.maemo.org/User:Generalantilles/Sandbox/Bug_Jar |
| 02:16.22 | GeneralAntilles | I was overcome by laziness, you get the idea anyway. |
| 02:16.30 | GeneralAntilles | I can set up templates to make most of that pretty easy. |
| 02:18.39 | sjgadsby | Thanks! I'll poke at it, see if I can move it into my own sandbox, and play. |
| 02:19.00 | GeneralAntilles | Just play with it there. |
| 02:19.25 | Dekaritae | Bought a Skeletool |
| 02:20.10 | sjgadsby | Okay, will do. |
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| 02:32.31 | GeneralAntilles | sjgadsby, http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Category#Sort_order |
| 02:32.38 | GeneralAntilles | We can probably turn the index page into a category |
| 02:32.46 | GeneralAntilles | and sort by year/month or something. |
| 02:43.52 | sjgadsby | GA: Sounds good. |
| 02:44.21 | GeneralAntilles | Just get something that you think will work and I'll turn it into templates. :D |
| 02:47.52 | sjgadsby | Okay. I won't be able to work on it tonight, but I will work on it. Thanks! |
| 02:57.21 | rm_you | Dekaritae: ?? |
| 02:57.50 | GeneralAntilles | rm_you, new Leatherman multitool. |
| 02:58.07 | rm_you | ah |
| 02:58.09 | GeneralAntilles | hugs his Charge Ti. |
| 02:58.17 | rm_you | ? |
| 02:58.50 | GeneralAntilles | http://www.leatherman.com/products/tools/charge-TTi/default.asp |
| 02:58.56 | GeneralAntilles | Only the best Leatherman ever made. |
| 02:59.27 | rm_you | oh yeah, well, I just bought this: http://www.joann.com/joann/catalog.jsp?CATID=cat3217&PRODID=prd31268 |
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| 02:59.42 | rm_you | 3 yards :) |
| 03:00.17 | GeneralAntilles | lol |
| 03:00.31 | summatusmentis | erm... why? |
| 03:00.36 | GeneralAntilles | Leathermans are invaluable tools. |
| 03:01.16 | summatusmentis | I feel like I'd carry one around, forget I had it, and then try to go through airport security with it |
| 03:01.26 | rm_you | cheap!!! Projector Screen |
| 03:01.55 | rm_you | putting it on the wall currently |
| 03:01.59 | summatusmentis | I see |
| 03:02.12 | rm_you | 102" diagonal :P |
| 03:02.17 | rm_you | win :P |
| 03:02.22 | GeneralAntilles | Mine's become a hip tumor. |
| 03:02.49 | GeneralAntilles | Projectors suck |
| 03:03.12 | derf | I'm _still_ pissed about TSA confiscating my precision screwdriver set in 2003. |
| 03:03.27 | summatusmentis | they took screwdrivers? |
| 03:03.45 | derf | They sure did. |
| 03:04.05 | summatusmentis | for what reason? |
| 03:04.17 | derf | Because they could. |
| 03:04.28 | summatusmentis | :-/ |
| 03:04.29 | summatusmentis | lame |
| 03:04.32 | GeneralAntilles | The agent needed a set |
| 03:04.42 | derf | Well, too bad for him. |
| 03:04.48 | summatusmentis | I've carried knitting needles through and noone said anything |
| 03:04.50 | derf | He got the bits, but not the driver. |
| 03:05.41 | derf | I've never seen another set like it... had a nice, thick plastic handle on the driver that really let you get some torque on the things. |
| 03:06.16 | Dekaritae | GeneralAntilles: Some people won't buy Leatherman because they don't make lefty tools, but I can one-hand the blade on the Skeletool lefted |
| 03:06.33 | derf | They were part of a grab-bag of gifts from a contest I won, so I wouldn't even know where to look to buy something like that. |
| 03:06.41 | derf | I've never seen anything remotely similar in a store. |
| 03:07.28 | Dekaritae | http://www.linux-mag.com/images/2007-12/gift-guide/Skeletool_CX_Beauty.jpg |
| 03:07.48 | summatusmentis | the TSA get's anal about stupid things |
| 03:07.50 | lopz | night |
| 03:08.41 | summatusmentis | 'night lopz |
| 03:09.07 | lopz | yeah |
| 03:09.09 | lopz | bye |
| 03:09.09 | lopz | xD |
| 03:09.17 | derf | I mean, I work for a defense contractor, and was taking them on a business trip because I _actually_ _needed_ them. |
| 03:09.44 | derf | But I didn't think trying to explain to the guy that he was hurting national security more than he was helping it would've done much good. |
| 03:10.10 | summatusmentis | you don't get like... security clearance or something that you can just flash and they leave you alone? |
| 03:10.25 | derf | As it was he almost made my miss my (domestic) flight despite arriving at the airport 3 hours early. |
| 03:10.54 | derf | summatusmentis: Only if you actually work for the government itself. |
| 03:11.19 | derf | But even that doesn't work very well outside your chosen agency. |
| 03:11.26 | summatusmentis | psh, no fair |
| 03:12.03 | derf | Like, my sister works for TSA, so she's got creds to flash. But if she wanted to get into, say, Coast Guard headquarters, they'd just look at her funny. |
| 03:12.41 | summatusmentis | well, sure |
| 03:12.57 | summatusmentis | but I feel like some creds would trump stupid TSA rules |
| 03:13.23 | derf | I'm pretty sure if someone from the Coast Guard tried to flash creds at a TSA worker, they still wouldn't buy it. |
| 03:13.50 | derf | The people at the bottom don't know nothing _but_ the rules. |
| 03:13.55 | summatusmentis | they might if it were NSA or something |
| 03:14.13 | derf | I don't think the NSA goes around flashing creds. |
| 03:14.46 | derf | FBI or CIA maybe, but now you're talking actual law enforcement officials, and that's different. |
| 03:14.55 | summatusmentis | heh, alright, fair enough |
| 03:15.12 | derf | An NSA employee would just as soon no one knew he worked for them at all. |
| 03:15.33 | summatusmentis | probably true |
| 03:19.50 | nelson | yeah, but "..... because of the terrorist threat" trumps all civilian rules. |
| 03:20.14 | nelson | derf An NSA employee would just as soon no one knew he worked for them at all .... because of the terrorist threat. |
| 03:20.25 | nelson | summatusmentis probably true .... because of the terrorist threat. |
| 03:20.42 | nelson | It's like catsup -- it goes with everything and you can put as much as you want on. |
| 03:23.21 | summatusmentis | except... ketchup doesn't go with ice cream |
| 03:23.24 | summatusmentis | or peanut butter |
| 03:23.40 | derf | You don't need ice cream or peanut butter. What are you, some kind of terrorist? |
| 03:24.10 | derf | I remember thinking, when the Berlin wall fell, "What bogeyman is the government going to use to scare people now?" |
| 03:24.12 | summatusmentis | who doesn't need ice cream or peanut butter?!? |
| 03:24.18 | derf | It took them longer than I expected to find one. |
| 03:25.34 | summatusmentis | does it bother you, being a government contractor? |
| 03:25.56 | derf | Not really, no. |
| 03:25.57 | nelson | it's your patriotic duty to be scared of terrorists. |
| 03:26.34 | derf | I mean, _I'm_ not trying to scare people. |
| 03:26.47 | summatusmentis | derf: you don't ever feel like you're supporting something you shouldn't be? |
| 03:27.17 | derf | Are you kidding? Every dollar they spend on me is one they can't spend hurting citizens. |
| 03:28.06 | summatusmentis | even though you're in the end, helping a system |
| 03:29.06 | derf | So is everyone who pays taxes. |
| 03:29.16 | nelson | So is everyone who votes. |
| 03:29.21 | derf | That was my next example. |
| 03:29.32 | summatusmentis | yes, to an extent. I'm not trying to rip into you, just genuinely curious |
| 03:29.46 | derf | Or, if you want to get down to it, everyone who _doesn't_ pick up arms and try to storm the capitol. |
| 03:30.01 | derf | I know what the government does with the stuff I build, and I've got no problem with any of it. |
| 03:30.24 | summatusmentis | I guess that was my question, yes |
| 03:30.50 | derf | I suppose some day they could ask me for something I did have a problem with, but I'm a civilian. I can say "no". |
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| 03:32.13 | summatusmentis | I suppose that's true, I assumed you were working for a company that got contracts |
| 03:32.25 | derf | I am. |
| 03:32.51 | summatusmentis | so you get enough leeway to decide if you want to contribute to the contract? |
| 03:33.00 | summatusmentis | or just end up leaving the company |
| 03:33.09 | derf | I'm usually the one writing the proposals these days. |
| 03:33.20 | derf | But yes, if it came down to it, there's lots of contractors out there. |
| 03:33.29 | summatusmentis | fair enough |
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| 04:40.33 | acydlord | sprint is shafting all their data/phone users |
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| 04:54.43 | rm_you | I've been thinking about getting a data plan for my phone... |
| 04:54.53 | rm_you | anyone know of an actual DECENT data plan? |
| 04:55.13 | rm_you | i dont know how to interpret the consumer BS they throw at us |
| 04:55.28 | rm_you | it doesnt actually have any stats, they just say shit that would impress soccer moms |
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| 04:57.07 | rm_you | http://www.t-mobile.com/shop/plans/Default.aspx?plancategory=7#Internet+Only |
| 04:57.14 | rm_you | is that *really* unlimited? |
| 04:57.24 | rm_you | http://www.t-mobile.com/shop/plans/cell-phone-plans-detail.aspx?tp=tb1&rateplan=T-Mobile-Total-Internet |
| 05:00.37 | acydlord | the sprint data plans were decent |
| 05:00.52 | acydlord | but now they are putting caps on them and threatening to terminate service if you go over |
| 05:01.02 | acydlord | t-mobiles data network sucks |
| 05:01.15 | acydlord | it's slow and spotty |
| 05:01.20 | rwhitby | dreams of an Australian data plan that is not limited with hefty excess usage fees ... |
| 05:02.33 | acydlord | this recent change in the data plans over at sprint doesnt give me high hopes for xohm |
| 05:05.37 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12 (n=faheem@host-84-9-54-98.dslgb.com) |
| 05:11.38 | rm_you | so basically, give up on getting a decent data plan? >_> |
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| 05:16.17 | ds3 | nelson: Nice |
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| 05:29.43 | *** join/#maemo RussB (n=RussB@24.130.8.206) |
| 05:30.17 | RussB | Does anyone know why Aislerot hasn't gotten ported to Maemo 4.x yet? |
| 05:30.59 | RussB | I keep waiting for someone to get around to recompiling it or something.. (as I don't have the knowledge myself to do it). |
| 05:31.04 | GAN800 | Somebody did |
| 05:31.04 | qwerty12 | It has been. A long time ago now. Check the debfarm repo. |
| 05:31.17 | GAN800 | look harder |
| 05:31.42 | RussB | Well, I looked on the maemo download site and on the official gnome.org Hildon page... |
| 05:31.53 | RussB | You know, just the obvious places. :-) |
| 05:32.45 | rm_you | check gronmayer? |
| 05:32.50 | GAN800 | google? |
| 05:33.00 | GAN800 | 'aisleriot os2008' |
| 05:33.27 | GAN800 | 'obvious' by an interesting definition. |
| 05:36.05 | RussB | Hmm. Still looking... |
| 05:36.22 | qwerty12 | 0.o |
| 05:38.23 | RussB | Ahh, I found a thread from April with Christian Persch from gnome.org... |
| 05:38.56 | qwerty12 | Please tell me, how is it possible to miss the first result? |
| 05:39.17 | RussB | The thread with the random packages to install? |
| 05:39.41 | RussB | have you actually gotten that working? Or are you just assuming that's correct? |
| 05:39.46 | qwerty12 | The thread with *the* aisleriot packages to install? |
| 05:39.50 | qwerty12 | Yes, I have had it working. |
| 05:40.21 | RussB | Sure. |
| 05:40.46 | qwerty12 | Well, it ain't just me who has had it working ;) |
| 05:41.03 | GAN800 | lol. . . . |
| 05:41.13 | RussB | And it ain't just me asking about it... :-) |
| 05:42.16 | qwerty12 | Easiest way would be to go to gronmayer, add the debfarm repo and go to application manager and install aisleriot from the list. |
| 05:43.03 | qwerty12 | The debfarm is a repo which really should be gone and the packages on extras btw, very very unstable (probably because it's on a free web hosting) |
| 05:43.32 | GAN800 | qwerty12, who maintains it? |
| 05:43.46 | GAN800 | poke them in the eye and tell them to fix it. |
| 05:44.04 | qwerty12 | GeneralAntilles, This guy here: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/member.php?u=9312 |
| 05:44.22 | GAN800 | poke him in the eye for me |
| 05:44.27 | *** join/#maemo ab (n=ab@pdpc/supporter/professional/ab) |
| 05:44.38 | qwerty12 | Will do |
| 05:45.16 | rm_you | RussB: http://gronmayer.com/it/dl.php?id=205 |
| 05:45.29 | RussB | Yep, thanks! I'm adding it... |
| 05:49.39 | RussB | GAN800, qwerty12, rm_you - Installed and working! Thanks for your help! |
| 05:50.14 | RussB | I can now better keep myself occupied while taking a dump. |
| 05:50.25 | qwerty12 | Lol |
| 05:51.04 | rm_you | lol |
| 05:52.47 | rm_you | GeneralAntilles: I'm... at a loss |
| 05:52.53 | rm_you | not sure which ticket to work on |
| 05:53.18 | rm_you | I'm failing at figuring out #2593 |
| 05:54.03 | GAN800 | fix it! fix it! fix it! |
| 05:54.09 | rm_you | >_> |
| 05:54.13 | GAN800 | fix it! fix it! fix it! |
| 05:54.14 | rm_you | will work on it... |
| 05:54.20 | rm_you | I need a better way to do logging |
| 05:54.37 | rm_you | than calling exec() on "echo debugtext > /tmp/mylog" >_> |
| 05:54.56 | rm_you | how do I get my app to output to syslog? |
| 05:55.45 | qwerty12 | printk? |
| 05:56.00 | qwerty12 | Not sure if it would work here though. |
| 05:56.04 | rm_you | AH |
| 05:56.11 | rm_you | apparently... include syslog.h |
| 06:03.13 | RussB | Got sidetracked with all the other repositories on that list... Browser Extras looks very useful as well! |
| 06:03.18 | RussB | Thanks again! bye! |
| 06:03.23 | *** part/#maemo RussB (n=RussB@24.130.8.206) |
| 06:03.57 | GAN800 | Browser-extras needs to be pushes to just Extras. |
| 06:04.42 | GAN800 | s/pushes/pushed/ |
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| 06:10.33 | acydlord | most of those need to be pushed to just Extras |
| 06:22.17 | rm_you | grrr |
| 06:22.23 | rm_you | can never get this thing to crash when i need it to |
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| 06:27.03 | rm_you | Nokia-N800-51-3 DSME: error reading fd (11): Resource temporarily unavailable |
| 06:27.12 | rm_you | anyone know what might be causing that? |
| 06:27.32 | rm_you | failing to read file descriptor 11? how would i find out which file that is supposed to reference |
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| 06:39.43 | rm_you | ok, got logs from a normal start and a crash start |
| 06:43.19 | rm_you | wtf |
| 06:45.00 | rm_you | http://pastebin.org/45296 |
| 06:47.41 | qwerty12 | s**tf**k, has anyone here daemonized a python app? |
| 06:49.15 | rm_you | dunno, but I'll demonize your python app :P |
| 06:50.26 | qwerty12 | Heh, lol, I've got the actual program to work when I invoke it manually from the command line but I can't get init to start it up :/. I've set up all the daemon.py scripts etc correctly, just can't figure it out lol |
| 06:50.52 | qwerty12 | Doh, I know what I did. |
| 06:51.01 | qwerty12 | slaps myself |
| 06:51.17 | rm_you | i need to get back to coding in python |
| 06:51.18 | rm_you | i miss it |
| 06:51.21 | rm_you | but i need a project |
| 06:53.21 | qwerty12 | Meh, I can't code in python anyway, this is just stolen code from lots of places and pimped by me :P |
| 06:53.29 | rm_you | lol |
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| 06:57.49 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
| 06:58.01 | qwerty12 | Morning |
| 07:06.56 | rm_you | morning |
| 07:07.05 | rm_you | anyone? http://pastebin.org/45296 |
| 07:07.32 | rm_you | line 29 is the last output from advanced-backlight... |
| 07:07.56 | rm_you | and on like 46 is where hildon-desktop dies |
| 07:14.56 | rm_you | hrm |
| 07:16.13 | Dekaritae | Is there a way to enable applications like File Manager and Leafpad to browse outside of the home directory? |
| 07:18.54 | qwerty12 | For leafpad, you can try the one without any hildonisation: (Older though) http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14510&highlight=leafpad |
| 07:19.13 | qwerty12 | As for File Manager, you can make a symlink but I hear reports of some apps going crazy |
| 07:20.07 | Dekaritae | What about setting a file association so that text files open in Leafpad? |
| 07:20.19 | qwerty12 | Google dbus-switchboard |
| 07:20.41 | Dekaritae | Yya |
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| 07:22.11 | rm_you | Dekaritae: yeah, you can make a symlink to / somewhere in your home directory... but then you will have to disable metalayer-crawler |
| 07:22.16 | rm_you | /etc/init.d/metalayer-crawler0 stop |
| 07:22.44 | Dekaritae | I've already disabled it |
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| 07:28.01 | rm_you | k |
| 07:29.34 | rm_you | OMFG |
| 07:29.41 | rm_you | watching spider-man on cable... |
| 07:30.09 | rm_you | willem defoe just said the exact same line in the exact same way with the exact same body expression as in Boondock Saints >_< |
| 07:30.32 | rm_you | I need to clip those side-by-side and put it on youtube :P |
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| 07:36.05 | *** part/#maemo zwnj (n=behnam@213.207.219.40) |
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| 07:36.43 | acydlord | which line? |
| 07:38.03 | rm_you | err |
| 07:38.14 | rm_you | i forget exactly what he said now, it's been like 10 minutes :P |
| 07:38.39 | rm_you | but when he's like... "gah, i don't know what to do! someone tell me what to do" |
| 07:38.42 | rm_you | or something like that |
| 07:39.07 | rm_you | in both cases, it's his internal good-evil struggle :P |
| 07:39.32 | rm_you | in both cases, it's deciding on the fate of a vigilante |
| 07:48.51 | Dekaritae | Damn teenagers out side makin a ruckus |
| 07:49.32 | rm_you | mmm spiderman getting his ass kicked by the green goblin... is HD! :P |
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| 07:59.40 | rm_you | GeneralAntilles: yoyoyo |
| 07:59.45 | rm_you | GeneralAntilles: do me a favor |
| 08:00.01 | rm_you | or anyone who uses advanced-backlight |
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| 08:02.35 | aquatix | morning all |
| 08:02.45 | aquatix | rm_you: hm? |
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| 08:04.52 | blueskiesokie | Is there a repository that has corkscrew or something like it? |
| 08:07.03 | rm_you | wget http://cs.trinity.edu/~acm/debs/advanced-backlight.so && mv advanced-backlight.so /usr/lib/hildon-desktop/advanced-backlight.so |
| 08:07.16 | rm_you | aquatix: do that on your n800 as root :P |
| 08:07.17 | aquatix | rm_you: new version? |
| 08:07.23 | aquatix | [n810 ;) ] |
| 08:07.24 | rm_you | aquatix: unload the old version first |
| 08:07.28 | aquatix | ok |
| 08:07.29 | rm_you | n810 whatever :P |
| 08:07.31 | qwerty12 | blueskiesokie, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8710&highlight=corkscrew |
| 08:07.38 | rm_you | unload, run that, reload |
| 08:07.46 | rm_you | and immediately try to change the volume |
| 08:10.06 | aquatix | *boom* |
| 08:11.03 | rm_you | crashed? |
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| 08:11.07 | rm_you | >_> damn |
| 08:11.11 | aquatix | yup |
| 08:12.25 | aquatix | tapped the little `less volume' button twice, then it crashed |
| 08:14.28 | acydlord | i borked advanced backlight bigtime earlier |
| 08:14.35 | blueskiesokie | Qwerty12: thanks |
| 08:14.59 | rm_you | acydlord: ? |
| 08:15.38 | acydlord | it was super sunny out, and i usually let my n810 auto adjust the backlight |
| 08:17.15 | acydlord | and i accidentally set it to full, so i couldnt see my screen, when i went to tap it to turn it down the menu just kept opening and closing |
| 08:17.54 | rm_you | .,..... |
| 08:17.57 | rm_you | odd |
| 08:18.11 | acydlord | havent been able to recreate it though so i think it was partly due to the fact that it was 115 out and my tablet was at least 100 itself |
| 08:19.08 | acydlord | but for the most part the n810 handles extreme heat pretty well |
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| 08:20.58 | rm_you | rm |
| 08:21.01 | rm_you | *hrm |
| 08:21.12 | rm_you | damnit, this bug is kicking my ass |
| 08:22.22 | acydlord | what the butt, my dvd-rom drive vanished from xp |
| 08:22.36 | rm_you | acydlord: open regedit and search for "lowerfilters" |
| 08:22.37 | qwerty12 | I never use mine anymore :/ |
| 08:22.52 | rm_you | errr |
| 08:22.56 | acydlord | i was actually about to use mine to watch a roomates movie |
| 08:22.57 | rm_you | here just read this: http://support.microsoft.com/KB/314060 |
| 08:23.27 | rm_you | any chance you have Roxio CD burning software? |
| 08:23.39 | acydlord | nope |
| 08:23.46 | rm_you | well, anyway, do that |
| 08:23.53 | rm_you | just do it manually |
| 08:23.57 | acydlord | it was working till i had to put the xp disk in to install a postscript driver |
| 08:23.58 | rm_you | dunno wtf their guided thing is |
| 08:24.16 | acydlord | dunno wtf their guided thing is either, i've had to do it manually before |
| 08:24.26 | qwerty12 | You don't have AnyDVD installed? |
| 08:24.29 | rm_you | ah, you've done this before? |
| 08:24.40 | rm_you | I've had to do this like 40 times, lol... |
| 08:24.52 | rm_you | worked as a computer repair technician for about 10 years |
| 08:25.12 | rm_you | ... since I was 11. seriously :) |
| 08:25.12 | acydlord | i still work as a repair tech off and on |
| 08:27.43 | acydlord | that was an easy fix =x |
| 08:27.50 | rm_you | :) |
| 08:28.08 | acydlord | went into the device manager and reset the drive letter |
| 08:28.13 | acydlord | and bam it popped back up |
| 08:28.17 | rm_you | lol |
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| 08:30.34 | chibiAcyd | now that was odd |
| 08:30.56 | chibiAcyd | went to play the dvd and my display adapter went out |
| 08:31.24 | chibiAcyd | i really need to get a new psu for my main linux box |
| 08:32.50 | rm_you | i really need 5 million dollars |
| 08:33.02 | rm_you | err, well it would be very helpful |
| 08:33.37 | qwerty12 | rm_you, Sure, know any banks with weak security? |
| 08:33.57 | rm_you | doubt we could get 5 mill from one bank |
| 08:34.06 | rm_you | doubt we could get one mil |
| 08:34.11 | qwerty12 | We'll target a chain then |
| 08:34.14 | rm_you | lol |
| 08:34.32 | qwerty12 | But I sense one flaw in this plan, THIS CHANNEL IS LOGGED! ARRGH! |
| 08:35.05 | rm_you | lol |
| 08:35.25 | aquatix | wants in |
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| 08:36.27 | chibiAcyd | its easy to get 5mil |
| 08:36.55 | qwerty12 | Now, this sounds like someone talking from experience, tell us the secret |
| 08:37.17 | chibiAcyd | one of Chase's lovely outsorced offices got around 6mil collectively |
| 08:37.27 | *** join/#maemo unique311 (n=unique31@ool-18be66e9.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 08:37.34 | chibiAcyd | so just go work for a chase call center overseas |
| 08:37.53 | qwerty12 | Any in London? |
| 08:37.59 | qwerty12 | puts on evil grin |
| 08:38.10 | chibiAcyd | personally i'm tempted to move to nigeria and sap money out of all the morons on the internet |
| 08:38.30 | rm_you | chibiAcyd: i don't think you need to actually be in nigeria :P |
| 08:38.44 | qwerty12 | But I thought that money was for your dying uncle?! :O |
| 08:38.53 | chibiAcyd | lol |
| 08:39.42 | chibiAcyd | i got one of the scammers to buy me stuff off ebay and then gave them fake bank info |
| 08:40.01 | qwerty12 | Haha |
| 08:40.06 | chibiAcyd | i should get back into that hobby |
| 08:40.24 | acydlord | oh hey. windows booted back in faster than expected |
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| 08:47.52 | acydlord | i think i need to install more wireless cards in this machine, that way when one neighbors wireless bogs down I can use the next seamlessly |
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| 09:13.54 | sven-tek | is it possible to open N800's DISPLAY to other applications in the network? xhost+ or something? |
| 09:15.26 | sven-tek | ... or setting up a vnc server, like vino in gnome? |
| 09:15.51 | towo | I'd just attempt using SSH and X-Forwarding from the N800. |
| 09:19.04 | sven-tek | never figured that out... i'll give it a try |
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| 09:33.54 | sven-tek | gee, that works |
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| 09:38.37 | lardman | ph5, lcuk: Did you see the latest on the PowerVR bug? |
| 09:38.56 | pH5 | lardman: no.. |
| 09:39.10 | lardman | a pointer to some code from Android |
| 09:39.26 | lardman | but it just looks like a complicated framebuffer driver, with mbx in the name |
| 09:39.36 | lardman | http://git.android.com/?p=kernel.git;a=tree;f=drivers/video/mbx;hb=HEAD |
| 09:40.25 | pH5 | oh that. it's in the mainline kernel :/ |
| 09:40.30 | pH5 | yup, just a dumb fb driver |
| 09:41.04 | pH5 | intel 2700G is a companion chip to pxa27x cpus that contains a powervr |
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| 09:41.21 | lardman | yeah, annoying naming :) |
| 09:41.28 | lardman | misleading naming :) |
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| 09:46.26 | lcuk | i am starting to wonder if we actually have 3dinside ;) |
| 09:46.45 | lardman | lcuk: I'm sure we do, remember what Kate said?! |
| 09:47.59 | lcuk | yes (barely though, not fully functioning yet..) |
| 09:50.29 | lardman | ah I heard that it works, but the code is crappy and buggy and wouldn't be released like that |
| 09:50.42 | lardman | and equally there's no point in paying someone to rewrite it |
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| 09:52.26 | lcuk | yes, she said she had seen in nokia |
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| 09:59.51 | rm_you | lcuk: yo |
| 10:00.56 | rm_you | lcuk: http://pastebin.org/45296 |
| 10:00.58 | rm_you | >_> |
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| 10:04.03 | lcuk | :D cool rm_you has that logging helped (note you should remove after you know it works) |
| 10:05.42 | rm_you | yeah it's all attached to a debug variable >_> |
| 10:05.47 | rm_you | anyways... no |
| 10:05.50 | rm_you | it isn't helping |
| 10:06.02 | rm_you | line 29 is the last thing my program outputs |
| 10:06.12 | lcuk | you sure, it shoes the dmse closing, is that right? |
| 10:06.14 | rm_you | line 45 shows hildon-desktop crashing |
| 10:06.29 | rm_you | lcuk: it does the same thing when it doesn't crash :/ |
| 10:06.48 | rm_you | in fact, everything looks EXACTLY the same |
| 10:07.09 | lcuk | exactly? you mean theres no more logging even though it doesnt crash? |
| 10:07.13 | rm_you | the only difference is line 30+ |
| 10:07.42 | rm_you | yeah, when it doesn't crash, it gets to line 29, and then... sits |
| 10:07.51 | rm_you | and then i can do other stuff and it continues logging |
| 10:07.56 | lcuk | scary - a google search for adv-backlight brings microsoft as first result :P |
| 10:08.00 | rm_you | >_< |
| 10:08.20 | rm_you | gah |
| 10:08.30 | rm_you | windows CE has an advanced-backlight module >_< |
| 10:15.19 | rm_you | lcuk: reading over IRC logs... you ever get around to writing a patch for the size of adv-backlight's buttons? :P |
| 10:16.10 | lcuk | whistles quietly, i downloaded it but got sidetracked with dr who.. |
| 10:16.16 | rm_you | lol |
| 10:16.41 | rm_you | doesnt the original applet have identically sized buttons? >_> |
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| 10:21.42 | rm_you | hrm |
| 10:21.51 | rm_you | GeneralAntilles: I think I'm gonna start a bounty |
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| 10:22.47 | rm_you | I'll put up 20 bucks to anyone who submits a patch that puts advanced-backlight in a proper Hildon Menu thing |
| 10:22.57 | rm_you | wanna pitch in? :P |
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| 10:36.07 | Jaffa | lcuk: quite right, it was worth getting distracted over. |
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| 10:40.42 | lcuk | jaffa.o.m.g. im not going to mention a single word of the plot, just simply jaw dropping |
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| 10:41.14 | Jaffa | lcuk: aye. Can't wait till next week. |
| 10:42.54 | lcuk | do you think the doctor gets into watching tv during the week when hes not fighting aliens and zips foreward in time to watch the rest of the series ;) |
| 10:45.57 | Saviq | you're talking 'bout Doctor Who, guys? |
| 10:46.22 | lcuk | yer but for the sake of others who havent seen recent eps, dont discuss plot |
| 10:47.00 | Saviq | sure, I haven't seen 'em yet, either |
| 10:47.33 | lcuk | are you in the uk |
| 10:50.29 | sven-tek | anyone here played around with virtualgl or something like that to play 3d games on a n8x0? |
| 10:50.57 | lcuk | sven-tek, virtualgl being software gl stack? |
| 10:51.26 | sven-tek | no, it is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VirtualGL |
| 10:52.43 | sven-tek | the idea is, to use a high performance 3D capable PC and transport the rendered images to a client, e.g. a VNC Client. |
| 10:53.01 | lcuk | sven-tek, the problem i see with that implementation would be lack of 3d drivers, unless you know something the rest of us dont |
| 10:53.24 | sven-tek | I have nvidia with good 3D drivers. |
| 10:53.55 | lcuk | ahhh i see which direction, i was thinking of you directly on the device still |
| 10:54.31 | Jaffa | What's the benefit VirtualGL gives you? You have a PC playing the game, which presumably has a monitor, and you need a fast network link. I don't, quite, get it. |
| 10:54.45 | lcuk | no then, dont think its been suggested, could you get the framerate via vnc up there and rendered quickly? remember the framebuffer on here doesnt like fullscreen updates of the 3d type |
| 10:55.03 | lcuk | 2d type |
| 10:56.35 | sven-tek | Jaffa, i can go to nokia and tell them i made 3D work on N810. Get lots of money and run away as they play quake3d on their n810. |
| 10:57.20 | rm_you | lol |
| 10:57.35 | rm_you | grabs the newest who |
| 10:58.17 | lcuk | sven-tek, why would nokia give you lots of money, they have 3d devices up and running in their ivory towers |
| 10:58.32 | Saviq | lcuk: no, I'm in poland |
| 10:59.05 | lcuk | saviq, how far behind are you - i suggest you find a way to catch up and watch everything. if you are a who fan they are well worth it |
| 11:00.03 | Saviq | the last one I've seen was The Unicorn and The Wasp |
| 11:00.13 | Saviq | so 3 eps behin |
| 11:00.14 | Saviq | d |
| 11:00.26 | lcuk | that makes a nice afternoon of viewing then :) |
| 11:02.03 | sven-tek | lcuk, and multitouch i suppose... |
| 11:02.32 | rm_you | Saviq: got at least the library to go |
| 11:02.36 | rm_you | plus last nights |
| 11:02.59 | lcuk | sven-tek, don't know for sure about that, but it would seem logical that most large research labs have many magical technologies hiding away |
| 11:05.05 | lcuk | im still waiting for true proper lcd hardware multitouch :) instead of just 3 voxels for rgb, they use 4: RGB+sensor every single pixel has a light sensor and they know when its covered up. should be possible using the same tech as current displays just bidirectional |
| 11:06.22 | Jaffa | Our luck says we'd only be able to read 1 pixel inbound every second, due to "bandwidth constraints" |
| 11:06.30 | AStorm | lcuk: how does that react to light? |
| 11:06.58 | AStorm | anyway, capacitive screens can do multitouch not-so-expensively |
| 11:07.24 | AStorm | although they have other drawbacks |
| 11:07.46 | AStorm | I'd love to see a portable sonic screen (sound-wave based) |
| 11:07.55 | AStorm | that should do fairly good multitouch too |
| 11:08.47 | lcuk | jaffa, it should work quite nicely i read a paper on it a while back |
| 11:09.14 | lcuk | and astorm, what do you mean react to light? it would react just like the CCD sensor in your camera cos thats all it is |
| 11:09.19 | AStorm | yes |
| 11:09.35 | AStorm | I mean, would it work in low-light conditions? |
| 11:09.38 | AStorm | or high-light? |
| 11:10.07 | lcuk | well since the lcd is backlit and you always have some leakage you always have *some* light around to pickup on |
| 11:10.24 | lcuk | high light is fine because your finger would cover it up.. |
| 11:10.31 | AStorm | hm |
| 11:10.35 | Jaffa | Would be very cool if it could be used as a camera: look at the screen and you're dead on for the webcam. That'd be *very* cool tech |
| 11:10.35 | AStorm | what about medium light then? :P |
| 11:10.51 | AStorm | Jaffa: w/o any lenses? crazy and low-res |
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| 11:11.02 | AStorm | you'd be totally out of focus |
| 11:11.18 | AStorm | it could be used as a motion sensor though |
| 11:11.27 | AStorm | (heck, it is one) |
| 11:11.45 | AStorm | lcuk: I'd improve on the tech by using infrared instead of light |
| 11:11.52 | AStorm | that should work better |
| 11:11.58 | AStorm | although more expensively |
| 11:12.02 | lcuk | well its still light |
| 11:12.16 | lcuk | you mean an IR backlight? |
| 11:12.23 | lcuk | type thing |
| 11:12.25 | AStorm | no, what for? |
| 11:12.39 | AStorm | your hands emit or block IR |
| 11:12.45 | lcuk | to reflect from your finger back into the sensor |
| 11:12.49 | AStorm | why? |
| 11:13.13 | lcuk | because then you have a single screen without the need for any outside tech |
| 11:13.19 | sven-tek | i hate touchscreen, they are not responsive |
| 11:13.32 | AStorm | sven-tek: they are great for some uses |
| 11:13.32 | sven-tek | iam much slower with touchscreen than with keys |
| 11:13.41 | AStorm | heh, that's just you |
| 11:13.50 | AStorm | they are not a replacement for key input |
| 11:13.53 | sven-tek | yeah, touchscreens are great for mahjongg |
| 11:14.00 | AStorm | blah, and drawing |
| 11:14.05 | AStorm | and entering handwriting |
| 11:14.05 | lcuk | here is the original LED one i saw, which actually just used the LEDs themselves as sensors |
| 11:14.05 | lcuk | http://www.cs.nyu.edu/~jhan/ledtouch/index.html |
| 11:14.24 | sven-tek | cool tech |
| 11:14.36 | AStorm | lcuk: note he uses very bright leds |
| 11:14.44 | AStorm | you'd need an excellent sensor |
| 11:14.50 | AStorm | to use normal backlight levels |
| 11:15.14 | lcuk | but the idea is there, hence my original post "im still waiting" |
| 11:15.17 | AStorm | and the sensor with the controller would have to be fairly fast |
| 11:15.31 | rm_you | wait |
| 11:15.32 | lcuk | just like most modern CCD sensors |
| 11:15.32 | sven-tek | touching a black area in an jpg is not possible then? |
| 11:15.34 | rm_you | does he have other sensors there |
| 11:15.38 | lcuk | no |
| 11:15.43 | rm_you | or is he using the LCDs themselves? |
| 11:15.49 | AStorm | lcuk: not really, more like hq digital camera |
| 11:16.05 | AStorm | not your plain webcam (low sensitivity) or scanner (slow) |
| 11:16.13 | lcuk | leds themselves - when they get light on them the current drop or whatever it is changes |
| 11:16.24 | rm_you | err yeah LEDs |
| 11:16.24 | AStorm | fotodiodes actually? :) |
| 11:16.44 | lcuk | In 1977, Forrest M. Mims reminds us in one of his "Engineer's Notebooks" that LEDs can also be used as photodiodes... |
| 11:16.50 | AStorm | lcuk: the problem is... how do you detect the distance from the screen? |
| 11:16.51 | rm_you | yeah |
| 11:16.58 | lcuk | you dont - its touch |
| 11:17.04 | AStorm | lcuk: no, it's not |
| 11:17.09 | AStorm | it's reflected light |
| 11:17.12 | glass | it's shadow |
| 11:17.20 | AStorm | glass: or shadow, yes, depends |
| 11:17.21 | glass | so.. need good ambient light |
| 11:17.30 | AStorm | glass: these are actually reflected light |
| 11:17.33 | glass | ah |
| 11:17.35 | glass | from the led itself? |
| 11:17.49 | AStorm | no, from the 1000W light source behind them? ;) |
| 11:17.53 | AStorm | sure |
| 11:18.02 | AStorm | from the led |
| 11:18.08 | lcuk | or others or the backlight - and something astorm just said, IR light - put that in with the backlight and use that |
| 11:18.17 | AStorm | I'm positive the effect isn't sensitive enough |
| 11:18.27 | AStorm | plain physics tells you :) |
| 11:18.28 | lcuk | its being worked on though :) |
| 11:18.32 | AStorm | or you'll get a lot of noise |
| 11:18.36 | sven-tek | perhaps you can modulate some frequency on the rgb light, so the sensor can distinguish the signal |
| 11:18.38 | glass | thats neat then, but dunno how workable as anything else than touchpad(without screen) |
| 11:18.53 | AStorm | glass: think OLED |
| 11:19.06 | AStorm | shrink the leds down, make a screen that reacts to touch |
| 11:19.14 | AStorm | fairly workable |
| 11:19.24 | AStorm | you could even apply this to any screen |
| 11:19.29 | AStorm | using transparent photodiodes |
| 11:19.37 | AStorm | goes to file the patent ;P |
| 11:19.44 | lcuk | yes astorm, RGB+input per pixel |
| 11:20.08 | AStorm | I suspect it won't work anyway ;P |
| 11:21.07 | AStorm | the resolution can be 1/3 of the screens |
| 11:21.09 | AStorm | or even less |
| 11:21.17 | AStorm | just how much you want |
| 11:21.30 | lcuk | why 1/3? 1 sensor per pixel |
| 11:21.45 | AStorm | what for? |
| 11:21.50 | AStorm | that would be expensive |
| 11:22.05 | AStorm | and touch isn't that precise |
| 11:22.07 | lcuk | why expensive, its part of the same fab process as the lcd panel itself |
| 11:22.14 | AStorm | you need about 1/2 the size of the stylus |
| 11:22.27 | lcuk | touch is normally MORE precise - on this device its got something like... umm lemme look it up |
| 11:22.33 | *** join/#maemo lbt (n=david@78-32-229-233.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 11:23.04 | AStorm | no, it's not |
| 11:23.08 | AStorm | it won't ever be |
| 11:23.26 | AStorm | you can't touch with pixel precision anyway |
| 11:23.57 | lcuk | 3585 pixels X, 3195 pixels Y |
| 11:24.13 | lcuk | the sensor is VERY capable on our nokias and we have to downsample |
| 11:24.20 | lcuk | this is common in touch displays |
| 11:24.38 | AStorm | yes |
| 11:24.47 | AStorm | but anyway, what's the diff? |
| 11:24.55 | AStorm | what is the accuracy for? |
| 11:25.26 | lcuk | because its free :) |
| 11:25.27 | *** join/#maemo Free_maN (n=Free_maN@unaffiliated/freeman) |
| 11:25.46 | AStorm | blah, but not in the CCD design |
| 11:26.06 | lcuk | and the touch display people have standard tech that can handle resolutions which have gone beyond LCDs. the panel people dont know what LCD its going to be used with |
| 11:26.24 | lcuk | no, the ccd design would use 1 sensor per pixel |
| 11:26.37 | AStorm | no |
| 11:26.40 | lcuk | no alignment issues or drifting and always at the correct resolution |
| 11:26.41 | AStorm | that's expensive |
| 11:26.44 | AStorm | it can use less |
| 11:27.00 | AStorm | note, 800x480 sensor is fairly expensie |
| 11:27.07 | AStorm | such sensors are used in scanners |
| 11:27.18 | AStorm | cost is like, 50$/unit |
| 11:27.26 | lcuk | but it will be made with the same fab process as current LCD boards, why would it be more expensive |
| 11:27.38 | AStorm | because the materials are |
| 11:27.48 | lcuk | ? the same materials |
| 11:27.53 | AStorm | and it has to be transparent CCD, increasing the cost |
| 11:27.53 | lbt | hi - I'm having a problem with the latest sdk+ using sb2... ERROR: ld.so: object 'libsb2.so.1' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded: ignored. |
| 11:28.00 | lbt | anyone know anything? :) |
| 11:28.05 | AStorm | lcuk: seen any 800x480 OLED LCD lately? |
| 11:28.09 | AStorm | color? |
| 11:28.16 | AStorm | that small? |
| 11:28.17 | lcuk | im not thinking oled - im thinking lcd |
| 11:28.26 | AStorm | OLED is cheaper LCD |
| 11:28.29 | lcuk | just like we currently have - oled is still not workable |
| 11:28.37 | AStorm | normal LCD would be uberexpensive at these sizes |
| 11:28.51 | lcuk | the lcd i have in front of me is 19" and very cheap |
| 11:28.52 | AStorm | and very hard to produce |
| 11:29.00 | AStorm | and what's the dot size? |
| 11:29.03 | AStorm | :) |
| 11:29.08 | AStorm | wait, wait |
| 11:29.14 | lcuk | not 225dpi, but i have a 4" one here |
| 11:29.15 | AStorm | LCD... no, that's diff tech than CCD |
| 11:29.17 | AStorm | sorry |
| 11:29.27 | AStorm | CCDs are diodes |
| 11:29.35 | lcuk | LEDs are diodes as well |
| 11:29.38 | AStorm | CMOS light sensors are cheaper, but less sensitive |
| 11:29.43 | AStorm | LEDs are expensive :) |
| 11:30.19 | AStorm | LCDs are cheap in comparison |
| 11:30.39 | AStorm | actually, a capacitive screen could use similar tech to LCDs |
| 11:30.48 | AStorm | just have a coat of transparent transistors |
| 11:31.52 | AStorm | anyway, really, CCD touch sensor will be expensive |
| 11:31.58 | AStorm | and hard to mass produce |
| 11:32.05 | AStorm | unless OLEDs get cheap and available |
| 11:32.34 | lcuk | which is something all the related companies are working towards |
| 11:32.37 | AStorm | :) |
| 11:32.57 | AStorm | yes, for oled screen, traditional touch sensors won't work good |
| 11:33.07 | lcuk | ccd is not hard to mass produce - just look at how much of the world is covered by a ccd right now |
| 11:33.22 | *** join/#maemo felipec (n=felipec@a88-113-6-7.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 11:33.25 | AStorm | it is at large sizes and resolutions |
| 11:33.38 | AStorm | you need a fairly large CCD matrix (not of too high res though) |
| 11:33.50 | lcuk | do you think they fab these things in tiny chip sized sections? they make entire sheets of the things like cpus |
| 11:34.09 | AStorm | they do make these things in sheets, but |
| 11:34.19 | AStorm | they're made using the same tech as CPUs |
| 11:34.26 | AStorm | esp. CMOS sensors |
| 11:34.34 | AStorm | (CCDs are different technology) |
| 11:34.42 | AStorm | (but related) |
| 11:34.53 | AStorm | problem will be scaling the sensor up |
| 11:34.58 | AStorm | and making it transparent |
| 11:35.09 | AStorm | w/o OLED which could react to light |
| 11:35.17 | *** join/#maemo m-c (n=mmm@ubuntu/member/desertc) |
| 11:35.54 | lcuk | why make it transparent? the aim is to sit it amongst the light generating voxels not infront of |
| 11:36.50 | AStorm | then you have to make it tinier |
| 11:36.59 | AStorm | and have light focus on it somehow |
| 11:37.14 | AStorm | = add microlenses? |
| 11:37.15 | lcuk | what? like 12megapixel in a tiny 5mm^2 area? |
| 11:37.19 | AStorm | no |
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| 11:37.38 | AStorm | see, you need a lens t have enough light to focus on that tiny sensor |
| 11:38.06 | *** join/#maemo BabelO (n=Fabrice@lun34-2-82-238-28-28.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 11:38.06 | AStorm | it's easier to make a big one and transparent |
| 11:38.30 | AStorm | hopefully sensitive enough |
| 11:38.58 | *** join/#maemo alextreme (n=alex@82-171-161-1.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 11:40.08 | lcuk | not really, sensitivity depends upon refresh rate, slow refresh == more light, its been the same and theres lots of camera engineers around who work magic in signal processing around the world to make it work |
| 11:40.18 | AStorm | not really |
| 11:40.27 | AStorm | you need it to have high bit depth |
| 11:40.27 | lcuk | anyway, like i said originally, im still waiting but my tummy is rumbling so im grabbing breakfast |
| 11:40.29 | AStorm | at least 4-bit |
| 11:40.31 | AStorm | :) |
| 11:40.37 | AStorm | and low noise |
| 11:40.46 | lcuk | bit depth comes from the a2d converter |
| 11:40.47 | AStorm | sensitivity is related to amount of light |
| 11:41.00 | AStorm | needed to excite the transistor or diode |
| 11:41.05 | AStorm | not to speed |
| 11:41.22 | AStorm | lcuk: yes and no, there's always some floor :) |
| 11:41.33 | AStorm | and these are all quantum effects too |
| 11:41.51 | lbt | hi - I'm having a problem with the latest sdk+ using sb2... ERROR: ld.so: object 'libsb2.so.1' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded: ignored. |
| 11:41.56 | lbt | anyone know anything? :) |
| 11:42.05 | AStorm | not me :P |
| 11:42.11 | lbt | guessed not :) |
| 11:42.36 | *** join/#maemo b0unc3__ (n=b0unc3@host-84-223-137-56.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 11:42.37 | lcuk | http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=ERROR%3A+ld.so%3A+object+%27libsb2.so.1%27&btnG=Google+Search&meta= |
| 11:42.53 | lcuk | lbt, try those people mention the same, but i dont use sb2 (or sb1) so dunno |
| 11:43.10 | lbt | Oh, if I change LD_PRELOAD I can get different effects. |
| 11:43.24 | lbt | basically it looks like it's simulating some kind of overlay fs |
| 11:44.06 | lbt | it does also differ with suid commands too (eg mount) |
| 11:46.14 | lbt | oh, btw, lcuk - I asked on -dev a while back.... are you making the code for your scrolling notes thingy available (david greaves here - gtk rotation/finger scrolling etc) |
| 11:48.00 | *** join/#maemo b0unc3___ (n=b0unc3@host-84-223-154-48.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 11:50.25 | rm_you | lbt: I keep poking him about that as well... it would be awesome if he would just GPL it, but it looks like we may get a QT style dual license at best |
| 11:50.30 | *** join/#maemo zwnj (n=behnam@91.184.75.164) |
| 11:50.35 | rm_you | lbt: and he doesn't seem to be in any sort of hurry <_< |
| 11:52.08 | lbt | rm_you: fair enough, each to their own :) |
| 12:01.10 | rm_you | lbt: dunno... i almost feel personally insulted now when people release closed source software <_< |
| 12:01.28 | rm_you | at least, for personal projects |
| 12:04.35 | lcuk | im not releasing yet because thats not a personal priority - i would have to do a lot more work towards packaging and actual software finalization than just me relearning c |
| 12:05.12 | lbt | that's not really true |
| 12:05.25 | lcuk | why not? |
| 12:05.26 | lbt | you can literally just post up the code |
| 12:05.44 | *** join/#maemo vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim) |
| 12:05.50 | lbt | I agree that end users won't be able to use it |
| 12:05.55 | lbt | but other devs can |
| 12:06.01 | Jaffa | if it's interesting enough, people will help you improve the build process etc. |
| 12:06.10 | lbt | and some of them/us are good at packaging/docs etc |
| 12:06.12 | *** part/#maemo vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim) |
| 12:07.27 | Jaffa | Oh, I like michael's bubbles logo designs. |
| 12:07.29 | lbt | if you don't want to release then you don't have too - seriously; to each their own.... OTOH |
| 12:07.57 | lbt | if you aren't releasing code because 'people might not like it' or "it's messy" |
| 12:08.01 | lcuk | i know those are the immense positive aspects of release, but im not even sure what i want to do with the code (there is more than just this device) and keep looking for something which allows best of both |
| 12:09.01 | lbt | Are you thinking of doing a proprietary app? |
| 12:09.34 | lcuk | not specifically for this platform, but im thinking more than just maemo |
| 12:09.45 | lbt | ah, so multiple device support? |
| 12:09.59 | lbt | some open, some proprietary? |
| 12:10.17 | lcuk | thats a long time in the future but if i release now and accept code modifications it prevents me doing things in future in closed environments |
| 12:10.30 | lbt | Not necessarily |
| 12:10.52 | lbt | You need a copyright assignment |
| 12:11.09 | lbt | which may limit contributors |
| 12:11.41 | lcuk | but i keep swaying |
| 12:11.48 | lcuk | flipflops constantly on this |
| 12:12.12 | lcuk | i got as far as putting gpl headers on all the files and going to the garage upload the other day.. |
| 12:12.26 | lcuk | but then bottled it |
| 12:12.29 | lbt | :) |
| 12:13.20 | lbt | Until you accept your first change then you really don't have a future problem - you fully own the code you wrote and you don't have to continue to release changes |
| 12:13.23 | lbt | however |
| 12:13.40 | lbt | any code you release will always be available under the GPL. |
| 12:13.53 | *** join/#maemo kkrusty (n=cache@5ad4c42f.bb.sky.com) |
| 12:13.57 | lbt | so there's no taking back (of the initial version anyhow) |
| 12:14.09 | lbt | But |
| 12:14.11 | lcuk | thats actually ok i understand that |
| 12:14.28 | lbt | OK - never sure if people get the implications |
| 12:14.50 | lbt | I've no idea what you know - and it sounds like you're not an old hand at GPL... |
| 12:15.14 | lcuk | im not, but ive spent long enough observing from the sidelines |
| 12:15.15 | lbt | was just going to add that no-one can take the gpl version and compete commercially |
| 12:15.37 | lcuk | yes they can, but they are under the same rules |
| 12:16.12 | lcuk | thats also not a consideration, its getting caught supporting a feature which was transitory |
| 12:16.14 | lbt | well, by commercially, I meant they can't take your GPL-released code and sell it as a closed app |
| 12:16.40 | lcuk | sure they can (at least until we catch them) |
| 12:16.45 | lbt | Hah :) |
| 12:17.13 | lcuk | david, do you have a vid of your gtk stuff? |
| 12:17.22 | lbt | gosh no!! |
| 12:17.30 | lbt | I'm just writing a noddy shopping list :) |
| 12:17.38 | lcuk | released it yet? |
| 12:17.44 | lbt | no |
| 12:17.47 | lcuk | :D heh |
| 12:17.56 | lbt | but if you want the code I'll email it to you |
| 12:18.02 | lbt | it's in a git repository |
| 12:18.38 | lcuk | what im actually thinking is putting all the base code out there to the graphics library and books part and seeing what people can do with it but just holding back on my graffiti app (which is looking better and better everyday) |
| 12:19.20 | lcuk | if we can get people used to working with rapid applications on maemo maybe the future for other things will be rosey |
| 12:19.25 | lbt | hey, that's cool... maybe you could throw up a simple app to get people started though? |
| 12:19.42 | lbt | Seriously I was looking at the base library as a launcher... |
| 12:19.51 | lbt | together with finger scrolling |
| 12:20.25 | lcuk | yer exactly - mini library for setting up and drawing to the screen with the text reader thing and a few of the other modules ive made - and then i can carry on with whats important to me and just link to the latest bit of a lib that can be expanded upon by anyone |
| 12:20.30 | lbt | and I wondered it could be made to scale in a non linear way which gives a 'lensing' appearance |
| 12:20.41 | lcuk | and ill forever use the lgpl lib in whatever i need :) |
| 12:20.54 | *** join/#maemo harryl (n=kcome@58.213.219.62) |
| 12:21.17 | lbt | gotta go for a bit (wife had an op on friday and needs some tlc... + a cup of tea) back l8r |
| 12:21.25 | lcuk | scaling is easy, before i had the graffiti wall i had the sketches all scaling in response to user touch |
| 12:21.36 | lcuk | alright lbt :) nice to chat |
| 12:22.12 | *** join/#maemo ssvb (n=ssvb___@81-197-35-49.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 12:22.24 | lcuk | who wants to do this VB work for me whilst i cleanse the code to release? ;) |
| 12:22.48 | aquatix | VB?! |
| 12:23.05 | *** join/#maemo pH5_ (n=ph5@p5485CE66.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:23.20 | lcuk | yer aquatix my alter ego is a visual basic developer.. |
| 12:23.26 | aquatix | eek |
| 12:23.38 | lcuk | its served me well since my amiga died, but its always felt like methadone |
| 12:23.57 | aquatix | well, i'm a sinner too |
| 12:24.01 | aquatix | i program php ;) |
| 12:24.13 | lcuk | lol am i meant to look up or down on you? |
| 12:24.27 | aquatix | but that was as hobby |
| 12:24.33 | aquatix | moving on to python and such :) |
| 12:27.05 | rm_you | heh |
| 12:27.07 | rm_you | I do VB for work :P |
| 12:27.15 | rm_you | its icky, but I get paid for it :) |
| 12:27.17 | aquatix | did java for work for years |
| 12:27.25 | rm_you | would love to do Java for work <_< |
| 12:27.36 | rm_you | Java is a language I can actually DO things in |
| 12:27.54 | aquatix | ghehe |
| 12:28.10 | rm_you | I hate C so much |
| 12:28.20 | rm_you | and the more I use it and get used to it, the more I hate it |
| 12:28.22 | lcuk | can do anything in vb that i can do in any other language |
| 12:28.38 | rm_you | lcuk: besides be cross-platform compatible <_< |
| 12:28.45 | lcuk | and its got runtime type information so i can do more than i can do with c |
| 12:28.52 | rm_you | unless you're in .NET and make sure you only use libs that work in Mono |
| 12:28.58 | lcuk | up until 6 months ago that wasnt a consideration |
| 12:29.10 | aquatix | lcuk: i absolutely positively hate the VB syntax |
| 12:29.15 | lcuk | spits on .net and then throws it into the bin |
| 12:29.28 | rm_you | I thought .net was supposed to be cool :/ |
| 12:29.30 | *** join/#maemo Zic_ (n=zic@ubuntu/member/zic) |
| 12:29.32 | aquatix | and VBA is even worse |
| 12:29.37 | lcuk | some people say the same about french, but its still used as a language |
| 12:29.46 | rm_you | all my windoze fanboi friends go on about how awesome it is |
| 12:30.16 | aquatix | preferred delphi |
| 12:30.17 | *** join/#maemo Free_maN (n=Free_maN@unaffiliated/freeman) |
| 12:30.32 | rm_you | and i go on about how blind they are for worshiping the mighty Gates, so whatev :P |
| 12:30.37 | lcuk | they go on about how awesome it is until they come across one of the many bugs in the interface |
| 12:30.44 | rm_you | nah |
| 12:30.50 | rm_you | they prolly thing they're features |
| 12:30.52 | rm_you | *think |
| 12:31.02 | lcuk | 5 minute delays here or there, strange little bugs which you cannot cure |
| 12:31.08 | rm_you | damn windoze fanboiz |
| 12:31.23 | rm_you | s/windoze/micro$oft/ |
| 12:31.37 | aquatix | rm_you: yeah, never could wrap my head around that concept |
| 12:32.06 | rm_you | they try to make me jealous of their MSDN subscriptions |
| 12:32.12 | aquatix | hahahahaha |
| 12:32.13 | lcuk | rm_you, do your friends write large projects in .net? |
| 12:32.31 | rm_you | and then i remind them I would rather shoot myself than run any of the software in there |
| 12:32.48 | lcuk | MSDN and the whole .net documentation took a massive step backwards - it used to be that i could press f1 and get proper context sensitive help |
| 12:32.49 | rm_you | lcuk: no, they spend most of their time being bill gates wannabes |
| 12:33.24 | rm_you | fortunately I can only think of two of them |
| 12:33.47 | rm_you | I do also have sane friends :) |
| 12:33.56 | rm_you | like johnx! |
| 12:33.59 | rm_you | misses johnx |
| 12:34.07 | lcuk | chose to rejoin his c roots rather than work in .shit |
| 12:34.33 | rm_you | <lcuk> i got as far as putting gpl headers on all the files and going to the garage upload the other day.. |
| 12:34.34 | rm_you | >_< |
| 12:34.36 | lcuk | and now im slowly working through 8 years of code tested in vb and porting it to c |
| 12:34.41 | lcuk | ;) |
| 12:35.32 | rm_you | it's this easy... create garage project... svn checkout... copy all of your source in... svn add *; svn commit |
| 12:35.34 | rm_you | done :P |
| 12:35.57 | *** join/#maemo Rhoruns (n=Rhoruns@ip98-165-84-98.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 12:37.18 | lcuk | not really, what about the code i dont want to post |
| 12:37.36 | rm_you | post that too? :P |
| 12:37.41 | rm_you | what don't you want to post? |
| 12:38.23 | rm_you | oh, and I'm still down for helping get your ebook reader thing displaying pdfs :P |
| 12:38.49 | lcuk | now that would be worthwhile :) |
| 12:38.54 | rm_you | yeah |
| 12:38.57 | rm_you | so release your code :P |
| 12:39.07 | lcuk | and that doesnt intefere with the other side of what i want to do |
| 12:39.10 | rm_you | has been waiting for at least a week |
| 12:39.31 | lcuk | but ive got a metric shitload of code to write today thats not c |
| 12:39.36 | rm_you | >_> |
| 12:40.01 | lcuk | since lastweek you realised its been your lifelong ambition to write a pdf reader .. |
| 12:40.12 | rm_you | lcuk: it took me a little bit to get used to "release early, often".... |
| 12:40.14 | rm_you | so get used to it |
| 12:40.16 | rm_you | :P |
| 12:40.36 | rm_you | not life ambition... month's ambition |
| 12:41.58 | lcuk | thinks life was easier back in the day. source didnt matter |
| 12:42.19 | *** join/#maemo Free_maN (n=Free_maN@unaffiliated/freeman) |
| 12:42.39 | rm_you | back when people were willing to accept sub-optimal software because they had no other choice? >_> |
| 12:42.57 | rm_you | doesn't miss that |
| 12:43.01 | lcuk | i dont think apples software is suboptimal |
| 12:43.11 | lcuk | wheres the code for most of that? |
| 12:43.23 | rm_you | ooooooooooooo |
| 12:43.26 | lcuk | or photoshops? |
| 12:43.27 | rm_you | do NOT get me started on Apple |
| 12:43.46 | lcuk | or any one of thousands of software products in use worldwide right now |
| 12:43.49 | rm_you | photoshop is great... but locked to windoze and mac, when it could easily be cross-platform |
| 12:43.53 | lcuk | autocad? |
| 12:43.54 | rm_you | Mac is already halfway there |
| 12:44.05 | rm_you | same with autocad |
| 12:44.37 | lcuk | why should any of these companies open up the code, it does not get them anywhere just yet |
| 12:45.29 | rm_you | not saying THEY should, just pointing out how the software has problems that people who care (like me and many others) could work on and fix |
| 12:46.23 | rm_you | are you planning to use this application to make a living? >_> |
| 12:46.25 | lcuk | i agree entirely, but (lets look closer to home) do nokia listen and update and change and fix their software? |
| 12:46.38 | rm_you | not really |
| 12:46.43 | rm_you | at least, not enough |
| 12:46.54 | rm_you | I thoroughly believe all of ITOS should be open |
| 12:47.09 | rm_you | ITOS isn't what they're profiting from anyway, they sell the hardware |
| 12:47.19 | rm_you | so what is the point of keeping the software closed? >_> |
| 12:48.00 | rm_you | if people can improve the software, thereby making their hardware more desirable, wouldn't that put them in a better position? |
| 12:48.28 | rm_you | it irks me DAILY that so much of their code is still closed :/ |
| 12:49.04 | lcuk | thats because you are usign a feature that is closed (for whatever stupid reason) |
| 12:49.06 | rm_you | s/DAILY/HOURLY/ |
| 12:49.35 | rm_you | s/DAILY/CONSTANTLY/ |
| 12:50.34 | rm_you | it would still be aggrivating, though admittedly not quite as immediately so, if the closed code in question weren't directly impeding the development of my own app, yes |
| 12:50.53 | rm_you | wow, that was a very long and horribly structured sentence |
| 12:52.46 | lcuk | you are replicating functionality which has been chosen to be closed, im more frustrated by lack of binary |
| 12:53.32 | *** join/#maemo Tuco (n=Y@unaffiliated/tuco) |
| 12:53.47 | lcuk | if i were rewriting autocad i could not expect nor push for the source for it because i know its closed |
| 12:54.02 | lcuk | but that would not exactly prevent me from making a cad program |
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| 12:54.49 | rm_you | it would if the cad program had to interface with a cad server somewhere due to hardware constraints, and that server was also closed source >_< |
| 12:57.04 | lcuk | but if the interface was documented would it matter about the source? |
| 12:57.33 | rm_you | yes, if there were features you needed that didn't exist in the server and you needed to add them :) |
| 12:57.33 | lcuk | (like you have all the interface specs for dmse and gtk and everything) |
| 12:57.43 | rm_you | pft |
| 12:57.51 | rm_you | the specs we have for dsme are useless |
| 12:58.12 | rm_you | and for the Hildon GTK stuff |
| 12:58.19 | lcuk | then you would be making a none standard server which the original program couldnt use |
| 12:58.22 | rm_you | a bunch of the Hildon docs are just blank |
| 12:58.45 | rm_you | just additional functionality, totally backwards compatible :P |
| 12:59.06 | lcuk | in a critical environment can you guarantee that? |
| 12:59.13 | rm_you | like adding the ability to manually disable the light sensor dimming, or to change the "dimmed" light level |
| 12:59.17 | rm_you | yes |
| 12:59.26 | rm_you | extra options that aren't utilized will not interfere |
| 12:59.36 | rm_you | it's done with all manner of projects |
| 12:59.47 | lcuk | are you sure, the levels might be fixed in hardware and without being a fully trained engineer may end up shorting something out and setting fire to your pocket |
| 12:59.56 | rm_you | you only run into problems if you REMOVE functionality, or change existing functions |
| 12:59.56 | lcuk | its the same with the battery charging stuff people keep talking about |
| 13:00.16 | rm_you | it's most definitely in software >_> |
| 13:00.33 | rm_you | if the source was open i could prove it :P |
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| 13:00.45 | rm_you | and if it was in hardware, the source would prove that too |
| 13:00.50 | lcuk | what i mean is the limits to the software might be there because communication with the hardware people let them know those limits |
| 13:00.55 | rm_you | so i would know not to mess with it |
| 13:01.57 | lcuk | what if those limits change iwth different hardware revisions (new supplier etc) could you be certain the software supplied by you fits all |
| 13:02.02 | rm_you | i'll assume we're talking theoretically? |
| 13:02.07 | lcuk | of course |
| 13:02.10 | rm_you | because I *know* it's in software :P |
| 13:03.00 | lcuk | yes, just like its possible in software to set various things which screw up the display scanlines and stuff - its entirely possible with your software to render the device unusable |
| 13:03.09 | rm_you | if it didn't work with all hardware, then any good maintainer would reject those patches |
| 13:03.36 | lcuk | do you have hardware for all revisions of n8x0? |
| 13:03.50 | rm_you | i *know* it's in software, because fanoush's custom kernels let us bypass DSME for that stuff and do it manually :) |
| 13:04.10 | rm_you | no, but before I release I make sure it has been tested on all of the hardware :) |
| 13:04.41 | lcuk | but nokia have not sanctioned any of those - a user has to change their kernel to do so - which an average joe would do about as often as they replace windows with linux |
| 13:04.47 | rm_you | right |
| 13:05.02 | rm_you | which is why one upstream patch to DSME would be a much better solution |
| 13:05.14 | rm_you | which is why i want the source open in the first place :P |
| 13:05.44 | lcuk | but you have the dmse flags to set, however you write your interface is up to you surely? |
| 13:05.56 | rm_you | not enough |
| 13:06.03 | rm_you | DSME doesn't support setting custom dim levels |
| 13:06.13 | rm_you | or turning off the lightmeter dimming |
| 13:06.24 | rm_you | but those flags would be easily addable |
| 13:06.27 | rm_you | if the source were open |
| 13:06.35 | rm_you | they just didn |
| 13:06.48 | rm_you | they just didn't include the proper controls in the dsme interface |
| 13:07.59 | rm_you | http://pastebin.org/45350 |
| 13:08.11 | rm_you | can change the dim timeout, but not what the dim brightness level is |
| 13:08.23 | rm_you | and no way to deal at all with the light sensor dimming |
| 13:10.07 | rm_you | and I know for a fact that DSME is handling those things, there just isn't a provided interface for it, because Nokia didn't think to add one, and I can't do it for them because the source is closed.... |
| 13:10.08 | lcuk | whats the datestamp on that dmsetest? |
| 13:10.10 | rm_you | all i need is --dimlevel |
| 13:10.23 | lcuk | is it possible they just havent yet released a later version which does |
| 13:10.35 | lcuk | that talks about the cover state - 770 only? |
| 13:10.51 | rm_you | this is on my n800 |
| 13:10.58 | rm_you | and is exactly the same on n810, as it is part of os2008 |
| 13:11.02 | lcuk | which doesnt have a sensor? |
| 13:11.04 | rm_you | datestamp is dec 7, 2007 |
| 13:11.21 | rm_you | get the output from n810, is exactly the same |
| 13:11.45 | rm_you | and dim level should be available on anything, even back to 770 |
| 13:11.46 | lcuk | i believe you :) |
| 13:11.59 | rm_you | you see my frustration? >_> |
| 13:12.07 | rm_you | if they gave me the source I could have it fixed inside the day |
| 13:12.24 | lcuk | so its the dmse code you want, not the backlight applet |
| 13:12.37 | rm_you | I want the backlight applet for a different reason |
| 13:12.40 | lcuk | the same dmse code which does all the talking directly to hardware |
| 13:13.04 | lcuk | you want to know how they do the fancy widget inside menu thing that you keep asking about |
| 13:13.04 | rm_you | the backlight applet contains code that somehow massages some very strange widgets into a GtkMenu >_< |
| 13:13.29 | lcuk | are you sure its a gtkmenu? |
| 13:13.46 | rm_you | not 100%... |
| 13:13.56 | rm_you | see: http://wiki.maemo.org/Rm_you |
| 13:14.04 | rm_you | "IRC with Timeless concerning GTK stuff with the sound applet:" |
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| 13:15.51 | lcuk | so they created their own custom menu item which essentially subclasses the basic menu item (or at least implements its interface) |
| 13:15.58 | rm_you | as you can see, I got lost fairly quickly in that conversation |
| 13:16.21 | rm_you | I think they rewrote the entire gtkmenu system |
| 13:16.25 | rm_you | like, their own version |
| 13:16.33 | rm_you | I started working on that myself |
| 13:16.38 | lcuk | yer its common with lots of systems |
| 13:16.39 | rm_you | but i don't know nearly enough about GTK |
| 13:16.44 | rm_you | I |
| 13:16.48 | jott | rm_you: the important part is the "hildon-status-bar-popup" that what i also traced when i tried to find out how to get a slider in a sb applet.. |
| 13:16.58 | rm_you | I'll give you $20 if you make it work :P |
| 13:17.10 | rm_you | jott: i'm already using that kind of container |
| 13:17.36 | rm_you | just can't get it to look/behave like the other applets |
| 13:17.55 | lcuk | rm_you, perhaps you may need to sidetrack away from maemo. have you tried looking around to see if people made active menus using gtk anywhere else |
| 13:18.06 | rm_you | yes |
| 13:18.14 | lcuk | and do you know of any |
| 13:18.15 | rm_you | and asked in #gtk+ a lot |
| 13:18.18 | rm_you | nope |
| 13:18.37 | rm_you | as I told timeless, people in #gtk+ told me it would require a gigantic hack |
| 13:18.41 | jott | the gtk menu stuff has basically to be replicated afaiu... |
| 13:18.52 | rm_you | yeah |
| 13:18.56 | lcuk | require a hack, but not gigantic |
| 13:18.56 | rm_you | pretty much completely |
| 13:19.08 | rm_you | completely replacing GtkMenu? >_> |
| 13:19.15 | lcuk | menuitem? |
| 13:19.20 | rm_you | GtkMenu. |
| 13:19.27 | jott | i wonder if it's an lgpl violation on nokias side :) |
| 13:19.31 | rm_you | I started with just menuitem |
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| 13:19.41 | lcuk | jott, doubt it if they have reimplimented it |
| 13:19.44 | rm_you | jott: well, unless they open their code we can't prove it :P |
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| 13:19.51 | Stskeeps | ponders idly if gnustep would be nice on a tablet |
| 13:20.01 | jott | rm_you: well there are ways to prove it without the source :) |
| 13:20.15 | jott | lcuk: well when they derived their implementation from the gtkmenu one..... |
| 13:20.17 | AStorm | Stskeeps: nope |
| 13:20.22 | rm_you | heh, that would be convenient :P |
| 13:20.29 | rm_you | well, anyway, i really need to sleep |
| 13:20.31 | Stskeeps | AStorm: too many right clicks is my primary concern :P |
| 13:20.32 | AStorm | gnustep is ugly regardless of input devices available to it |
| 13:20.37 | Stskeeps | meh |
| 13:20.38 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 13:20.38 | lcuk | they used the same interface - its only a user control |
| 13:20.47 | AStorm | Stskeeps: I'd love modified awesome 3 on the tablet |
| 13:20.50 | lcuk | ok rm_you :) gnite |
| 13:20.55 | jott | rm_you: night :) |
| 13:21.01 | AStorm | adapt it to work better with pens |
| 13:21.05 | rm_you | BUT, as a standing offer, I will give $20 to any person that submits a patch to advanced-backlight that makes it look and behave like all of the other applets |
| 13:21.39 | rm_you | working on getting more to that bounty, but i'm poor at the moment :) |
| 13:22.08 | lcuk | rm_you, before you sleep - one thing, there is an option menu which has ticks etc - if the code is open then perhaps you should look at how that differs from a normal menu item |
| 13:22.09 | jott | lcuk: if they gone to gtkmenu.c and took some parts of it and put it in their (closed) implementation that would be a (l)gpl violation |
| 13:22.32 | Stskeeps | AStorm: isn't it sortof keyboard-centric or is it actually navigatable with mouse? |
| 13:22.43 | lcuk | once you know how its different then you could possibly adapt to put a whole scrollbar in |
| 13:22.50 | rm_you | lcuk: which is that> |
| 13:23.03 | AStorm | Stskeeps: working on improving mouse capabilities of it |
| 13:23.16 | rm_you | i have been looking for 6 months for a program like that |
| 13:23.24 | lcuk | im not sure, but doesnt gtk have proper tick menus like any other menuing system? |
| 13:23.49 | rm_you | oh... yeah, that may just be built in as a type |
| 13:25.01 | jott | lcuk: they are all gtkmenuitems, you could write your own gtkmenuitem but afaiu the event management hinders proper mouse click propagation |
| 13:26.11 | jott | and apparently the #gtk folks did not know a simple solution either - so it's propbably not be THAT simple ;) |
| 13:26.12 | lcuk | on windows i have a program called spy++ which allows me to see the window classes used created to make anything, is anything similar available for linux/gtk? |
| 13:27.18 | jott | hm not reallly sure, probably only on the x11 layer... |
| 13:27.37 | jott | hm g-inspector |
| 13:28.08 | jott | but it's from 2005 :P |
| 13:28.08 | lcuk | G-Inspector invokes a GTK+ application and inspects its objects. It shows widgets hierarchy, properties of widgets, etc. It can blink a specific widget instance so that you can identify it. It can handle Glib objects too. |
| 13:28.33 | lcuk | age isnt important, good code is timeless |
| 13:28.45 | rm_you | https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/gbounty/index.php?type=group&group_id=564&pluginname=gbounty |
| 13:28.46 | rm_you | :P |
| 13:29.08 | jott | lcuk: well depends on the compatiblity of gtk i suppose ;) |
| 13:29.23 | rm_you | now, must sleep |
| 13:29.26 | lcuk | jott, all that would be needed would be to run the correct nokia applet with ginspector in the way |
| 13:29.41 | lcuk | "all" |
| 13:29.45 | rm_you | >_> |
| 13:29.49 | rm_you | ttyl |
| 13:29.55 | jott | yeah might be worth a try to atleast see some basic inheritance ;) |
| 13:29.56 | lcuk | gnite |
| 13:30.02 | rm_you | lcuk: I hope to see some code posted :P |
| 13:30.08 | jott | rm_you: bye |
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| 13:30.55 | jott | lcuk: i bet we end up in NokiaProprietaryWidget :) |
| 13:31.09 | lcuk | :) |
| 13:31.47 | rm_you | lcuk: just a note... as far as becoming locked into something because people are already using your program... release it with the standard "no warranty" clauses, and then tell people "tough luck, if i change stuff, you'll lose your work :P" |
| 13:31.59 | rm_you | and i bet people would rather have that than nothing :) I know I would |
| 13:32.10 | Jaffa | decides to write his Hildon countdown timer app in Vala, do see what a Gtk+ high level, Java-like language is like. |
| 13:32.42 | rm_you | sleeps |
| 13:33.33 | aquatix | sleep well |
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| 14:16.01 | lardman | GeneralAntilles: You about? |
| 14:16.16 | lardman | GeneralAntilles: How do I edit the wiki? |
| 14:19.19 | Jaffa | lardman: Log in, click "Edit" at the top of a page (on its little tab bar). |
| 14:19.33 | Jaffa | lardman: see http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Editing for syntax etc |
| 14:19.34 | lardman | Jaffa: hmm, I thought I was logged in |
| 14:19.52 | lardman | Jaffa: The old wiki always made me log in if I wasn't, is the new one different? |
| 14:20.23 | Jaffa | Correct. Over https it'll let anyone edit. Over http - at the moment - anonymous edits are banned. |
| 14:20.35 | Jaffa | lardman: If you're not logged in, your IP address is stored. |
| 14:20.52 | Jaffa | lardman: See http://wiki.maemo.org/Meta:Anonymous_editing, and its Talk page |
| 14:20.58 | lardman | ah ok |
| 14:21.11 | lardman | I just thought I was logged in as it han't asked me to do so |
| 14:21.17 | lardman | sorry :) |
| 14:21.58 | timely | lcuk: eh? |
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| 14:28.48 | timely | Jaffa / lardman, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3275 |
| 14:28.50 | timely | i'm confused |
| 14:28.56 | timely | i don't recall the urlbar ever hiding on its own |
| 14:29.08 | timely | unless you manually said not to show it in normal/full screen |
| 14:30.11 | lbt | funny that, I just replied to the mailing list saying that my machine does the same thing |
| 14:30.41 | lbt | as in it shows the url box |
| 14:30.50 | lardman | I thought it always just rescaled the window to fit in the gap left |
| 14:30.59 | lardman | so the url bar would be there, etc. |
| 14:32.20 | lbt | Hmm... |
| 14:33.12 | lbt | OK, so if I start the browser, and then untick Menu->view->show toolbar->Normal screen |
| 14:33.23 | lbt | I lose the toolbar (of course) |
| 14:33.41 | lbt | then clicking into a text box does not cause it to reappear |
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| 14:34.17 | lbt | same for fullscreen... |
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| 14:36.12 | timely | so the reporter's just very confused, right? |
| 14:36.33 | lbt | I think he's reporting a behaviour change between 2 versions |
| 14:36.43 | timely | but what change? |
| 14:36.49 | timely | afaik we've always behaved the same way |
| 14:37.09 | timely | i'm not saying that what the reporter expects wouldn't be nice, however, it's not what we've ever done, and well.. i don't know what will come in the next version, but i think it's a new ui :) |
| 14:37.10 | lbt | I guess he thinks that the toolbar used to 'autohide' |
| 14:37.23 | lbt | when the keyboard pops up |
| 14:37.32 | timely | afaik, it hasn't ever done that |
| 14:38.23 | lbt | I'm new; only seen the current version |
| 14:38.34 | timely | current== |
| 14:38.35 | timely | ? |
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| 14:39.08 | lbt | err |
| 14:39.12 | lbt | lemme see |
| 14:39.56 | lbt | ii osso-browser 2.1.3-1 Meta-package for Browser aplication |
| 14:40.03 | lbt | from dpkg-query |
| 14:40.09 | timely | and the os release? |
| 14:40.24 | lbt | Linux Nokia-N800-51-3 2.6.21-omap1 #14 Sat Mar 15 22:23:21 CET 2008 armv6l unknown |
| 14:40.28 | lbt | hmm |
| 14:40.37 | lbt | 2008 from the last 3 weeks... |
| 14:40.53 | lbt | actually the kernel isn't standard anymore... |
| 14:41.03 | lbt | how do I find out a useful value? |
| 14:41.16 | timely | cat /etc/osso_software_release ? |
| 14:41.42 | lbt | RX-34+RX-44_2008SE_2.2007.51-3_PR_MR0 |
| 14:41.58 | lbt | cat /etc/osso_software_version :) |
| 14:44.18 | lbt | Anyhow, much earlier today I asked: I'm having a problem with the latest sdk+ using sb2... ERROR: ld.so: object 'libsb2.so.1' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded: ignored. |
| 14:44.27 | lbt | anyone around now know anything? |
| 14:45.38 | Jaffa | timely: just experimenting now |
| 14:45.50 | AStorm | lbt: is it n810? |
| 14:45.55 | AStorm | does it have working DVFS? |
| 14:46.12 | lbt | this is the sb2 dev environment on my desktop |
| 14:46.21 | AStorm | blah |
| 14:46.23 | lbt | It was working... |
| 14:46.34 | lbt | then I tried to install the gtkmm stuff |
| 14:46.54 | lbt | and ended up 'upgrading' to latest (3day old?) sdk+ release |
| 14:47.10 | lbt | then it allows the gtkmm install and fails to run anything :( |
| 14:47.43 | lbt | I think the LD_PRELOAD is managing an overlay filesystem type thingy |
| 14:47.51 | lbt | badly... <grin> |
| 14:48.17 | Jaffa | timely: I'm resolving it as INVALID as using the version he claims works properly, the same thing happens.\ |
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| 14:49.14 | lopz | hi |
| 14:49.46 | lbt | Jaffa: he does say in his email: |
| 14:49.55 | lbt | Obviously I've managed to change a setting somewhere, but I can't work it out. |
| 14:50.13 | lbt | just FYI - I think the bug report may just be badly worded... |
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| 14:50.42 | lbt | WORKSFORME and a request for more info may be better???? |
| 14:51.07 | Jaffa | lbt: The bug as described is invalid. But, hmm, maybe. Trouble is, no-one experienced in the platform ever experienced what he's describing AFAICT |
| 14:51.45 | lbt | which indicates a bug? |
| 14:53.19 | lbt | Actually - you're right. |
| 14:53.54 | lbt | slinks off to kick his sb2 somemore.... |
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| 15:09.01 | lcuk | timeley eh at your eh? |
| 15:09.16 | lcuk | -e |
| 15:10.26 | lcuk | timely * |
| 15:15.03 | timely | lcuk: you made a comment about age/code/timeless :) |
| 15:15.06 | timely | is timeless |
| 15:15.17 | timely | Jaffa: thanks... |
| 15:16.09 | timely | lbt: strace and ldd and things are your friends |
| 15:16.23 | lcuk | :) did wonder what i'd done |
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| 15:19.34 | Jaffa | timely: no probs |
| 15:20.02 | timely | fwiw you didn't mark it as invalid... i guess you got there too late :) |
| 15:20.25 | Jaffa | Damn. I'd intended to, but thought it might've been marked as invalid when I clicked "Create a new attachment" |
| 15:20.54 | timely | i suspect it was open before you clicked create attachment |
| 15:20.59 | timely | but dead by the time you attached it |
| 15:21.05 | timely | so you didn't notice |
| 15:21.43 | timely | killed it after testing a 770 |
| 15:21.48 | Jaffa | Fair enough. I'd written all the text, set the status then went "doh, haven't attached the screenshot" |
| 15:22.12 | timely | yeah, your screen shot + comments were very good |
| 15:22.16 | timely | should have just left the bug alone |
| 15:23.21 | timely | and you're absolutely right about breaking platform behaviors being bad :) |
| 15:23.50 | timely | goes to hunt volleyball |
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| 16:13.09 | qwerty12 | Hmm, does the DNDEBUG cflag compile with debug code or remove debug code? |
| 16:15.22 | summatusmentis | I don't know... DN would seem to suggest DO NOT, but I made that up |
| 16:16.36 | qwerty12 | Yeah, probably, I dunno, I'll use it anyway :P :) |
| 16:17.51 | lcuk | qwerty12, if you compile with that flag, dave neary gets an email every time your program crashes |
| 16:18.39 | qwerty12 | Heh, best not compile with that then. Is that where my Nitro logs go too? |
| 16:21.29 | lardman | qwerty12: look for NDEBUG define in the code |
| 16:21.44 | lardman | the -D flag #DEFINEs whatever follows it |
| 16:21.55 | qwerty12 | Ah, ok, thank you, I'm looking now. |
| 16:23.50 | lbt | I'm back on scratchbox 1 and just installed the 4.01 rootstrap. I had a problem with dbus complaining : D-Bus library appears to be incorrectly set up; failed to read machine uuid: Failed to open "/var/lib/dbus/machine-id": No such file or directory |
| 16:24.10 | lbt | Anyhow.... it appears I need to run : /usr/bin/dbus-uuidgen --ensure |
| 16:24.14 | qwerty12 | Prefix the command you are running with run-standalone.sh |
| 16:24.43 | lbt | oh |
| 16:24.55 | lbt | goes to see.. |
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| 16:27.51 | lbt | when am I supposed to use run-standalone.sh |
| 16:28.50 | lbt | does it simulate being launched from the menubar? I guess that makes sense... |
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| 16:29.44 | lbt | the docs here: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/4.0.1/INSTALL.txt |
| 16:31.20 | lbt | don't mention it... |
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| 16:34.33 | Jaffa | ~seen keesj |
| 16:34.35 | infobot | keesj is currently on #maemo #oe. Has said a total of 19 messages. Is idling for 2d 21h 4m 16s, last said: 'X-Fade: did you get some help for the extras's repo?'. |
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| 16:40.33 | GeneralAntilles | lardman, ping. |
| 16:43.33 | lardman | GeneralAntilles: sorted, I wasn't logged in and didn't expect to be allowed to do anonymous edits |
| 16:43.51 | GeneralAntilles | Sign your comments with '~~~~' |
| 16:44.00 | lardman | so was confused when I was told I wasn't allowed to edit (thinking I must have been logged in) |
| 16:44.07 | GeneralAntilles | and you can change how your nickname appears here: https://wiki.maemo.org/Special:Preferences |
| 16:46.14 | lardman | Right, done that |
| 16:54.15 | GeneralAntilles | lol |
| 16:54.22 | GeneralAntilles | Garage has BOUNTIES? |
| 16:54.25 | GeneralAntilles | https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/gbounty/index.php?type=group&group_id=564&pluginname=gbounty&action=getdetail&bounty_id=2 |
| 16:55.11 | Navi | Woo |
| 16:55.13 | Navi | bounties |
| 16:57.37 | Navi | Twenty bucks! Someone should do it NAO |
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| 17:09.33 | summatusmentis | I... ah... how hard would it be for that to happen? |
| 17:09.49 | summatusmentis | and why hasn't the author(rm_you?) done it? |
| 17:10.34 | GeneralAntilles | summatusmentis, lol |
| 17:10.34 | GeneralAntilles | You don't even KNOW |
| 17:10.34 | GeneralAntilles | He's spent 6 months trying to figure this out. ;) |
| 17:10.43 | summatusmentis | trying to figure out how hard it is for the applet to be put in a container? |
| 17:10.49 | summatusmentis | or how to do it? |
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| 17:10.56 | GeneralAntilles | Uh, how to do it. . . . |
| 17:11.27 | summatusmentis | not documented or something? |
| 17:11.33 | Navi | Nah |
| 17:11.48 | GeneralAntilles | summatusmentis, what do you think? ;) |
| 17:11.49 | lcuk | sounds like it needs a custom control to replace the existing menuitem class |
| 17:12.09 | lcuk | but there may be some magic hack that some gtk god will know |
| 17:12.24 | summatusmentis | GeneralAntilles: I have no idea. I'm assuming not, but I know virtually nothing about hildon/maemo coding practices |
| 17:12.53 | GeneralAntilles | summatusmentis, maybe, after 6 months, you think one of us might've stumbled across the documentation and figured it out from that if it existed? ;) |
| 17:13.02 | summatusmentis | lol |
| 17:13.09 | summatusmentis | one would asusme so |
| 17:13.11 | lcuk | but no1 is doing applets |
| 17:13.30 | GeneralAntilles | "no1"? <_< |
| 17:13.41 | lcuk | not really |
| 17:13.42 | summatusmentis | lollerskates! |
| 17:13.46 | GeneralAntilles | Lots of people make applets, but nobody is trying to put sliders in them except Nokia. |
| 17:14.38 | lbt | hmm - sounds like this is a good way to encourage Nokia devs to stay closed... |
| 17:14.47 | lbt | then they can turn round and claim all the bounties ... <LOL> |
| 17:14.59 | Navi | Yeah |
| 17:15.00 | lcuk | ok, let me rephrase, you can probably count on one hand the number of people who are making applets |
| 17:15.07 | Navi | They'll totally want to claim the 20 dollar bounty |
| 17:15.24 | lcuk | lol lbt i thought of that before, they could relocate to mexico with the bountry |
| 17:15.54 | lcuk | live like kings for seconds before the money runs out |
| 17:16.21 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk, my comment was more directed at the lame aol speak. ;) |
| 17:16.45 | Navi | aolspeek |
| 17:16.45 | lbt | $20 - oh, I thought it was a worthwhile currency - like lira or something... |
| 17:17.04 | lcuk | yer, do we get to decide which country the $ is from.. |
| 17:17.10 | GeneralAntilles | No. |
| 17:17.19 | Navi | rm_you decides |
| 17:17.28 | Navi | make him pay in ounces of gold |
| 17:17.32 | Navi | 20 ounces should do |
| 17:18.21 | lcuk | GeneralAntilles, whats aol? |
| 17:18.54 | lbt | shouldn't you be running tar or something? |
| 17:19.20 | lcuk | lol no ive got visual basic open and am procrastinating |
| 17:19.29 | lbt | <sigh> |
| 17:20.07 | lcuk | however i might be able to run make later |
| 17:21.14 | lbt | that'd be nice - I'm playing with gtkmm now... still getting the lay of the land. |
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| 17:23.26 | lcuk | its bumpy and little molehills turn out to be mountains |
| 17:24.41 | lbt | and then you find the fences and have to go the long way round.... |
| 17:27.16 | timely | summatusmentis: in short the code to make it work is basically an entire file |
| 17:27.22 | timely | (rm_you's bounty) |
| 17:27.41 | timely | and there's no way i can give away closed sources :( |
| 17:28.52 | lcuk | timely, are we right in thinking that it is a replacement menu or menuitem class which impliments the additional functionality? |
| 17:29.03 | lbt | do the nokia applets overload the standard widget? |
| 17:29.16 | timely | lcuk: it's a raw widget that acts like a menu |
| 17:29.52 | lbt | but has no published api? |
| 17:30.01 | timely | it's not a library |
| 17:30.05 | timely | just part of the app |
| 17:30.34 | timely | this is what happens when ui designers write specifications... |
| 17:30.38 | timely | people implement them... |
| 17:30.43 | timely | speaking of which |
| 17:30.47 | timely | i need to scribble on a few specs |
| 17:30.54 | timely | which have things like: 1=1, 2=2, 3=2 |
| 17:31.00 | timely | yeah, that'll work well |
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| 17:31.37 | lbt | is there any chance of the relevant headers being released? |
| 17:31.46 | timely | no relevant header |
| 17:31.51 | timely | it's really just code |
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| 17:32.08 | lbt | OK - just wondering if there's any assist to reverse engineering something... |
| 17:32.23 | timely | i've already given out as much info as possible |
| 17:32.29 | timely | but basically the thing to do is instrument gtk |
| 17:32.31 | lcuk | lbt, most controls are reimpliments from each other i was looking before |
| 17:32.34 | timely | and listen to all the method calls |
| 17:32.37 | lbt | yeah - I guess it's an old discussion... |
| 17:32.37 | lcuk | look at the code for the ummm... |
| 17:32.51 | lcuk | only today |
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| 17:33.59 | lcuk | things like tick menus and check menus etc all have active functionality within the standard menu - most things are built from combines of generic gtkbasecontrolwidgetthiny |
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| 17:36.25 | lcuk | https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/maemo-branches/IT-2005/gtk+/gtk/gtkcheckmenuitem.c |
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| 17:37.30 | lcuk | im sure its not anything magical and impossible |
| 17:37.42 | lbt | what's actually wanted? |
| 17:38.04 | lcuk | yer, hes after a scrollbar in a menu |
| 17:38.18 | lbt | OK |
| 17:38.39 | lcuk | so when you pop the menu open you can adjust the scrollbar - just like the volume and brightness applets |
| 17:39.04 | lbt | OK |
| 17:39.31 | lbt | can't he create a widget which is a label containing an hbox and a hscroll? |
| 17:39.37 | lbt | a composite? |
| 17:39.42 | lbt | then add that in the menu? |
| 17:40.21 | lcuk | im not sure of his gtk knowedge, all i know is its bugged him for ages and he has pecked at loads of things to try |
| 17:40.27 | lcuk | hence his bounty |
| 17:40.28 | lbt | is reading the wiki entry |
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| 17:46.16 | kkrusty | I just installed gngeo. Now I feel like I have something better than a psp |
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| 17:55.49 | sp3000 | scale I suppose it would be, rather than scrollbar |
| 17:59.35 | pekuja_ | kkrusty, unless you have modded your device with a proper gamepad-like interface, I'd say PSP still wins |
| 17:59.54 | lbt | says "well, he's released the code here: https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/4147/advanced-backlight_0.9-2.tar.gz so we can dig in and take a look" whilst not looking at lcuk... |
| 18:00.03 | kkrusty | pekuja_: dont take away my happiness >:| |
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| 18:00.17 | lcuk | lbt, yes we know that code doesnt work :P |
| 18:00.22 | kkrusty | pekuja_: you already did. the n800 crashed on a particular rom |
| 18:00.36 | lbt | and yet he's still released it - how brave of him :) |
| 18:00.45 | GeneralAntilles | Well, it does work |
| 18:00.53 | lcuk | no - it doesnt have the feature he wants |
| 18:00.56 | lbt | ah, but it's not "finished" |
| 18:01.07 | GeneralAntilles | The applet is perfectly functional. |
| 18:01.13 | lcuk | he has implemented the changing and thats ok and lots of ppl use it, but he cant make it work |
| 18:01.24 | lcuk | whilst looking like the original nokia ones |
| 18:01.27 | lbt | which is lcuk's.... err.... "hangup" for not releasing his code :) |
| 18:01.34 | GeneralAntilles | It just doesn't look right and doesn't close correctly unless you tap on the taskbar or statusbar. |
| 18:01.44 | pekuja_ | kkrusty, :-< |
| 18:01.50 | GeneralAntilles | Depends on your definition of "work" |
| 18:01.56 | pekuja_ | kkrusty, at least Metal Slug still works, right? |
| 18:01.56 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk, release early, release often. |
| 18:02.01 | GeneralAntilles | You fail at open source. ;) |
| 18:02.07 | lbt | GeneralAntilles: no-one dies. |
| 18:02.42 | kkrusty | pekuja_: yeah that works. But some roms are blacked out during game play |
| 18:02.46 | lcuk | no, if i had written an applet, it would have too many options, which arent finished, would offer functionality that people would see and request of me, would do things which they arent expecting (clicking buttons perform actions that are inverse to what you would expect etc |
| 18:03.15 | lcuk | just because i can add a "no warranties" sticker to it does not mean i would be happy giving it to people |
| 18:03.37 | GeneralAntilles | Again, you fail at open source. ;) |
| 18:03.38 | lbt | lcuk: you think like a shareware bod |
| 18:03.43 | pekuja_ | kkrusty, hmm, the gngeo port for maemo actually has the four buttons onscreen? |
| 18:03.54 | pekuja_ | that's weird, although I guess it might be better than using the keyboard |
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| 18:04.28 | kkrusty | pekuja_: Well it doesnt unless I leave the n800 to go into idle mode after which they appear |
| 18:04.36 | lbt | lcuk: your attitude is very commendable and professional for a commercial world... seriously |
| 18:04.46 | pekuja_ | kkrusty, ah, so it's kinda buggy then? |
| 18:04.57 | kkrusty | pekuja_: 'very' buggy |
| 18:05.04 | lbt | but it's different in the OS world... |
| 18:05.04 | lcuk | lbt, no its commendable for me learning from a system and finding out what works |
| 18:05.14 | Proteous | my cellphone has a passable dpad on it, what would be cool is a java app for it that would make is show up as a bluetooth keyboard/gamepad for my n810 so I could use it as a gamepad |
| 18:05.32 | pekuja_ | if you could run a DS emulator on Maemo, it'd be a pretty awesome gaming device :-P |
| 18:05.45 | pekuja_ | that's fantasy though, there isn't even enough screen real estate |
| 18:06.01 | lbt | yeah - I agree - but you put together something that looks cool - and others want to play too. That's about the size of it :) |
| 18:06.28 | lcuk | and i will release when im ready :) |
| 18:06.30 | lbt | Anyhow - wasn't meaning to nag. |
| 18:06.34 | lcuk | lol |
| 18:06.57 | lbt | I'm just waiting for an install so I can learn about the hell that is autoconf |
| 18:07.00 | lcuk | is wrestling with sqlite at the moment |
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| 18:07.21 | lcuk | well you wont get that from mine, i havent got autotools on my 810 ;) |
| 18:07.36 | lbt | I'm playing with scratchbox 1 now... |
| 18:07.38 | kkrusty | I would say that the n800 does everything badly but is better than everything else in trying to do everything |
| 18:07.40 | pekuja_ | Proteous, which phone model is that? |
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| 18:08.07 | GeneralAntilles | kkrusty, I would disagree. |
| 18:08.07 | lbt | I was starting with the packaging - then I'll write some code... |
| 18:08.12 | lcuk | lbt :) i couldnt handle vmware so i setup gcc on my device and can now edit and compile direct on 810 or use ssh and whichever os i want to edit |
| 18:08.21 | kkrusty | GeneralAntilles: I would hit you with a shovel |
| 18:08.32 | qwerty12_N800 | lol |
| 18:08.33 | GeneralAntilles | Alrighty then |
| 18:08.35 | lbt | no vmware needed - scratchbox uses cross-compile |
| 18:08.43 | lcuk | in windows? |
| 18:08.49 | lbt | oh |
| 18:08.57 | lbt | shudders. |
| 18:09.03 | Proteous | pekuja_: a pantech c150 |
| 18:09.06 | pekuja_ | the internet tablet is really probably just hitting really close to a sweet spot for a PDA-like device |
| 18:09.12 | lbt | steps away from the keyboard... |
| 18:09.14 | pekuja_ | Pantech? O__o |
| 18:09.16 | pekuja_ | never heard of them |
| 18:09.23 | lcuk | pantech make my phone |
| 18:09.23 | pekuja_ | then again I live in Finland so everybody has a Nokia |
| 18:09.30 | lcuk | o2 ice |
| 18:09.35 | Proteous | neither had I, but it realy is a nice phone, ATT only in the us though |
| 18:09.36 | qwerty12_N800 | lcuk, http://i29.tinypic.com/15ht1w.jpg |
| 18:10.22 | lcuk | yer i saw qwerty12_N800, but why would i run xepyhr when i can run on device faster and safer in knowledge that its actual hardware |
| 18:11.23 | Jaffa | BTW, anyone want an Asus Eee 701? http://bleb.org/photos/show.html?id=0&album=asus-eee |
| 18:11.30 | pekuja_ | yes |
| 18:11.45 | qwerty12_N800 | lcuk, true. for me, sbox is better because it's faster and has proper coreutils etc |
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| 18:11.45 | pekuja_ | are you giving one away? ;-) |
| 18:12.33 | lcuk | qwerty12_N800, :) agree - for grown up compiling big established projects its essential |
| 18:12.36 | Jaffa | pekuja_: practically! ;-) 150ukp/190 euro/local equivalent, or it'll end up on eBay |
| 18:12.53 | pekuja_ | haha, ok |
| 18:12.57 | lcuk | 3 radishes and a packet of peanuts |
| 18:13.19 | Jaffa | lcuk: meet you at 140ukp and a packet of peanuts |
| 18:13.31 | lcuk | lol, what you replacing it with |
| 18:13.34 | pekuja_ | how about chili peanuts? |
| 18:13.57 | aquatix | hm, 701 |
| 18:14.16 | pekuja_ | anyways, I'm probably still waiting for Eee 901 |
| 18:14.22 | aquatix | 901 s really nice, but more expensive than 190 euro :) |
| 18:14.28 | pekuja_ | yep |
| 18:14.36 | qwerty12_N800 | A packet of weed with nothing on top, should cover it. |
| 18:14.39 | Jaffa | lcuk: nothing much really. Getting a better laptop from work, and I'm not using it much. Shame to see a gadget go to waste, and it was primarily bought as a stopgap before my N810 arrived. |
| 18:14.44 | pekuja_ | I wonder how much it'll be. I've heard it might be as low as 400 euro |
| 18:14.45 | vegai | I'm looking for the Acer Aspire One... |
| 18:15.59 | aquatix | 701 is with atom? |
| 18:16.39 | lcuk | cool jaffa, its not a vista machine is it? :P |
| 18:17.20 | lcuk | actually, i best stop wasting time, ive got a load of data moving to do |
| 18:17.23 | lcuk | back later |
| 18:19.29 | GeneralAntilles | Does this zeenix character on Planet EVER blog about Maemo? |
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| 18:31.30 | pekuja_ | aquatix, nope, it has a Celeron |
| 18:31.36 | pekuja_ | aquatix, 901 has Atom |
| 18:31.52 | pekuja_ | aquatix, 900 also has Celeron |
| 18:32.29 | ShadowJK | what's battery life of 701 like? |
| 18:32.30 | aquatix | kk |
| 18:32.41 | aquatix | just read about it |
| 18:32.50 | aquatix | i prefer a 901 |
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| 18:33.01 | pekuja_ | yeah, 901 is a lot better |
| 18:33.36 | pekuja_ | ShadowJK, 2 hours? maybe Jaffa can confirm this... |
| 18:33.49 | aquatix | 701 is a big n810 :) |
| 18:33.50 | forge | Should be much higher |
| 18:34.04 | forge | I think 701 has ~4h or so battery life |
| 18:34.04 | GeneralAntilles | Should be, but isn't. |
| 18:34.49 | forge | Crank the settings a bit and it should yeild that much |
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| 18:46.36 | Jaffa | 701 has around 4h, I think. Much longer than 900, a bit less than 901 (which has a bigger/heavier battery and more efficient CPU) |
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| 19:05.23 | Po84 | quietest IRC room ever |
| 19:06.00 | forge | How's so ? |
| 19:06.18 | Po84 | nobody said anything for 10 minutes |
| 19:07.00 | forge | Because everyone's still getting over the mid-summer hangover they managed to aquire in the past three days |
| 19:07.08 | Po84 | hehe |
| 19:07.38 | *** join/#maemo playya (n=playya@p57B2B27D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:08.01 | GeneralAntilles | Po84, you don't IRC much, do you? |
| 19:08.19 | Po84 | not any more |
| 19:09.15 | GeneralAntilles | Most channels are mostly idling most of the time. |
| 19:09.21 | *** join/#maemo b0unc3__1 (n=b0unc3@host-84-223-152-124.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 19:09.25 | Po84 | yeah I think that's why I quit it to be honest |
| 19:09.37 | *** join/#maemo Khertan (n=user@AAmiens-151-1-3-165.w83-192.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 19:10.06 | aquatix | this channel comes in waves, so to say |
| 19:11.16 | Po84 | I just came in to see if it was all people talking about development stuff or what |
| 19:11.38 | aquatix | they do, actually |
| 19:12.09 | Po84 | just that |
| 19:12.21 | aquatix | but i think they are currently quietly consuming some alcoholic beverages, contemplating how to take over the world |
| 19:12.30 | Proteous | muhahahahahaa |
| 19:12.41 | aquatix | doesn't type fast on his n810 |
| 19:12.53 | Proteous | gives aquatix more caffine |
| 19:12.56 | Po84 | what IRC client you using? |
| 19:13.02 | Proteous | sirc |
| 19:13.07 | aquatix | irssi |
| 19:13.12 | Proteous | er, yeah, that one |
| 19:13.14 | Proteous | irssi |
| 19:13.19 | Po84 | mind you IRC on N800 sucks because you have to eitehr use the stylus or the full screen keyboard |
| 19:13.37 | Proteous | but on the n810 isn't like butta |
| 19:13.43 | Proteous | er |
| 19:13.46 | Proteous | man, I can't type |
| 19:13.52 | Proteous | on the n810 it's great |
| 19:13.55 | GeneralAntilles | Meh, IRC is fine for me on the N800. |
| 19:13.56 | Po84 | yeah |
| 19:14.42 | aquatix | that's why i have an n810 ;) |
| 19:15.00 | Proteous | the ctrl being on only one side of the n810 keypad and the lack of an alt key makes screen and irssi a little annoying, but it's not too bad |
| 19:15.02 | aquatix | hm, wifi dropped out |
| 19:15.16 | aquatix | true |
| 19:15.31 | aquatix | ctrl+p/n is my friend |
| 19:15.35 | Proteous | yeah |
| 19:15.43 | aquatix | and esc+p/n |
| 19:15.58 | lbt | Me, I like my dual 24" widescreens and a full size keyboard... |
| 19:16.04 | lbt | size matters |
| 19:16.05 | aquatix | heheh |
| 19:16.12 | aquatix | i like my 30'' |
| 19:16.19 | Proteous | also, since they made the number pad only accessable by using the func key, why didn't they just put the numbers in a npad layout on the right side of the keyboard |
| 19:16.22 | *** join/#maemo krau (n=cktakaha@189.70.82.124) |
| 19:16.25 | aquatix | indeed does :P |
| 19:16.55 | aquatix | Proteous: i think the layout is quite ok |
| 19:17.11 | *** join/#maemo b0unc3 (n=b0unc3@host-84-223-137-73.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 19:17.36 | Proteous | typing numbers would have been easier if I could hold down the func key with my left thumb and type the numbers with my right thumb |
| 19:17.48 | Proteous | which I can't really due since half the numbers are on the left side |
| 19:18.41 | Proteous | but, I like having a hardware keyboard much better then the on screen one |
| 19:18.45 | jott | Proteous: you could always define your own custom mapping :) |
| 19:19.01 | Proteous | and repaint the keyboard maybe |
| 19:19.02 | Proteous | heh |
| 19:19.34 | jott | yeah just use a permanent marker |
| 19:19.50 | Po84 | I was thinking about buying a neat little USB keyboard I saw in maplin but it was ?20. Slightly too much |
| 19:19.53 | aquatix | Proteous: hm, true |
| 19:19.57 | Proteous | ever wonder why the number pad on a keyboard/calculator is different then the layout on a telephone? |
| 19:19.58 | jott | or paint your brain :) |
| 19:20.05 | aquatix | has a bt kb |
| 19:20.15 | aquatix | but don't use it much |
| 19:20.16 | *** join/#maemo pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 19:21.04 | aquatix | not very usable at the couch ;) |
| 19:21.16 | lbt | Po84: have you seen this: http://www.play.com/Mobiles/Mobile/4-/5175580/iGo-Stowaway-Ultra-Slim-Bluetooth-Keyboard/Product.html |
| 19:21.22 | lbt | £18 delivered |
| 19:21.45 | jott | Proteous: well better ask why a phone number pad differs from a calculator layout ;) |
| 19:22.05 | jott | ah |
| 19:22.09 | jott | you said that ;) |
| 19:22.16 | Po84 | lbt: I'm wondering if using a bluetooth keyboard would drain the batteries faster than using a USB one |
| 19:22.17 | GeneralAntilles | Why are phone number pads so broken? :D |
| 19:22.26 | Po84 | but I can't afford to buy 2 and trial them side by side |
| 19:22.27 | Proteous | heh |
| 19:22.32 | lbt | actually it looks like the offer ended :( |
| 19:22.43 | GeneralAntilles | Po84, I can't imagine that being the case. |
| 19:22.44 | Proteous | Po84: the BT would would use more battery |
| 19:23.07 | Proteous | s/would would/one would/ |
| 19:23.18 | Po84 | yeah I got that |
| 19:23.22 | *** join/#maemo Sho_ (n=EHS1@kde/hein) |
| 19:23.55 | Po84 | plugged a memory stick in the other day and it seemed to really cane the battery, but then memorysticks are not the same as keyboards |
| 19:24.21 | Proteous | I think I'm going to hack up an oldschool NES controller. Do a USB retrofit and install a retractable USB cable inside it |
| 19:24.47 | Po84 | i'm sure someone made a nes controller into an ipod game controller using USB |
| 19:25.04 | Po84 | but I cannot remember where I saw it |
| 19:25.05 | Proteous | wonder if I could install some batteries in it to make it self powered |
| 19:25.41 | lbt | piezo |
| 19:25.46 | Proteous | lol |
| 19:26.07 | aquatix | bt kb is quite decent qua battery |
| 19:26.15 | Po84 | http://www.hackaday.com/2007/01/12/ipod-nes-controller/ here we go |
| 19:26.26 | Po84 | except it's not usb |
| 19:26.32 | aquatix | used it for hours in the train with bt gprs |
| 19:28.28 | *** join/#maemo kkrusty (n=cache@5ad4c42f.bb.sky.com) |
| 19:28.47 | Proteous | Po84: that's slick, docking it into the controller like that is nifty |
| 19:29.08 | Po84 | yeah I thought so when I saw it. I only have an ancient 1st gen ipod else I'd have been all over that |
| 19:29.47 | GeneralAntilles | Just get a Wiimote to go with your NIT for emulators. |
| 19:30.06 | Po84 | yeah I saw that. not tried it yet |
| 19:30.14 | GeneralAntilles | I know Navi does it that way. |
| 19:30.24 | Proteous | that was a neat hack, but a wiimote is too large |
| 19:30.38 | Po84 | I paired a wiimote with my imac once and for some reason i behaved screwey when I tried to re-pair to the wii |
| 19:30.41 | Proteous | well, not as portable as I'd like |
| 19:30.41 | GeneralAntilles | Smaller than an NES controller. |
| 19:30.42 | Po84 | *it |
| 19:30.56 | Proteous | GeneralAntilles: a wiimote isn't smaller then and NES controller |
| 19:31.39 | glass | wiimote needs less work and is available easily though |
| 19:31.53 | glass | i just wish nokia put a proper direction controller on their phones and other devices |
| 19:33.46 | Po84 | the D-Pad is in totally the wrong place for gaming |
| 19:34.40 | lbt | not if you use xrandr and invert the screen |
| 19:34.52 | GeneralAntilles | It'd be nice if they would keep the N800's formfactor and clone all the buttons over to the right side. |
| 19:35.22 | GeneralAntilles | Just think what you could do with twice the buttons! :D |
| 19:35.36 | aquatix | lol |
| 19:35.49 | aquatix | being twice as productive! |
| 19:35.58 | *** join/#maemo disq (n=hede@84.16.227.90) |
| 19:36.09 | glass | left or right side doesnt matter that much |
| 19:36.20 | GeneralAntilles | The dpad still sucks |
| 19:36.21 | GeneralAntilles | but still. |
| 19:36.23 | glass | but it not being great for gaming matters and lacking buttons on the other side of screen does |
| 19:36.24 | Po84 | some sort of N800 adaptor that fits around the screen and turns it into a handheld game with a few more buttons |
| 19:36.53 | GeneralAntilles | They make one for phones. |
| 19:37.05 | jott | GeneralAntilles: hah i bet nokia would end up with something like the nokia 6820 :) |
| 19:37.12 | lbt | you see - they're encouraging a market for accesories.... |
| 19:37.28 | GeneralAntilles | http://www.pocketnow.com/index.php?a=portal_detail&t=reviews&id=651 |
| 19:44.18 | *** join/#maemo lopz (n=gentoo-d@unaffiliated/lopz) |
| 19:45.20 | *** join/#maemo NullM0dem (n=brian@215-150-139-71-rev.omegacomminc.com) |
| 19:47.12 | *** join/#maemo b0unc3_ (n=b0unc3@host-84-223-137-116.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 19:47.34 | kkrusty | anyone here has a list of roms which worked on maemo gngeo? |
| 19:47.50 | *** join/#maemo p| (n=kvirc@62.13.169.90) |
| 19:49.07 | *** join/#maemo sinak (n=sinak@ppp079166241045.dsl.hol.gr) |
| 19:49.55 | *** join/#maemo ssvb (n=ssvb___@84-230-107-216.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 19:50.41 | ssvb | lardman: hi |
| 19:51.15 | *** join/#maemo ImMelody (n=melody@ool-457709f8.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 19:51.21 | ssvb | lardman: I have finally successfully used DMA example |
| 19:51.29 | ImMelody | hey guys.. |
| 19:52.14 | *** join/#maemo b0unc3__ (n=b0unc3@host-84-223-155-89.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 19:52.40 | ImMelody | I am so fed up right now >.< |
| 19:52.52 | ssvb | lardman: the one from spru433 does not work because of the issue explained in section "3.8 DMA1 example/DMA transfers to SARAM or EMIF" of http://c5000.spectrumdigital.com/files/dsk5x_faq.html |
| 19:53.13 | *** join/#maemo l7 (n=l7@evil-wire.org) |
| 19:53.34 | ImMelody | Maybe one of you will know the answer to this question.. |
| 19:53.43 | *** part/#maemo l7 (n=l7@evil-wire.org) |
| 19:54.03 | ImMelody | How can a Samba share be viewable on a Windows computer, but not show up on any version of linux? |
| 19:54.04 | *** join/#maemo l7 (n=l7@evil-wire.org) |
| 19:54.12 | sinak | Hello! How can i do a backup to my N800? |
| 19:54.12 | *** part/#maemo l7 (n=l7@evil-wire.org) |
| 19:56.02 | ssvb | lardman: now I will try to benchmark and find out the fastest DMA transfer method for SDRAM->SARAM and SARAM->DARAM |
| 19:56.08 | *** join/#maemo Khertan (n=user@AAmiens-151-1-3-165.w83-192.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 19:57.31 | lcuk_ | ImMelody, hi, i dunno, firewall issues or refreshes or something like that? |
| 19:58.06 | ImMelody | Well, I can go to the shares if I manually input the IP |
| 19:58.18 | ImMelody | except for the printer share..which I can't see altogether |
| 20:03.47 | lbt | OK - real quick - what's the best pdf reader for the n800? |
| 20:04.23 | *** join/#maemo zwnj (n=behnam@194.225.70.244) |
| 20:04.58 | GeneralAntilles | Depends |
| 20:05.02 | GeneralAntilles | But most people like Evince |
| 20:05.37 | Jaffa | 's first little Vala program is working in Scratchbox. Woohoo *cough* |
| 20:05.38 | lbt | ok ta :) |
| 20:06.05 | lopz | bye |
| 20:06.05 | GeneralAntilles | gives Jaffa a cookie. |
| 20:06.30 | Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: it displays two labels: one containing a big "dd:hh:MM:ss", the other a smaller ".cc" |
| 20:06.32 | lbt | Jaffa: cool - I just got my first gtkmm running :) - the pdf reader is for the pdf here http://www.gtkmm.org/documentation.shtml |
| 20:06.42 | lbt | l8r all :) |
| 20:07.05 | Jaffa | wants a totally power mgmt compliant countdown timer app to a specified time or for a given duration. |
| 20:07.53 | Jaffa | But I dispair at Gtk+'s documentation (which is fine, once you find the bit you need), and Vala's current "look at the Gtk+ docs and try and work out the name of something using this naming convention" approach to API docs. |
| 20:07.55 | GeneralAntilles | I was thinking about filing an enhancement request to have Extras shipped enabled. |
| 20:08.05 | GeneralAntilles | Anybody else think that's a largely pointless idea? |
| 20:08.10 | Jaffa | Indeed. I assume you've just seen my comment on the talk page? |
| 20:08.14 | GeneralAntilles | Yes |
| 20:08.23 | dieman | im guessing theres no chance on extras shipped enabled |
| 20:08.30 | Jaffa | I'd vote for it. |
| 20:08.53 | dieman | theres too much stuff in extras with insanely rough edges |
| 20:09.00 | Jaffa | dieman: I'd like to see a categorical statement from Nokia though, and why. The "legal responsibility" answer I'd expect is a little thin |
| 20:09.07 | Toba_ | excuse my poor knowledge |
| 20:09.15 | Toba_ | but what is extras shipping? |
| 20:09.22 | Jaffa | dieman: that's a QA problem, if that's a stumbling block we can find ways of fixing that (that are on the radar anyway) |
| 20:09.22 | dieman | i think if there was an extras-super-shiny catalog |
| 20:09.28 | dieman | it'd be really cool. |
| 20:09.43 | dieman | stuff that you'd be ok having your dad happen to find and install |
| 20:09.47 | dieman | on his tablet |
| 20:09.52 | Toba_ | oh |
| 20:09.55 | dieman | [my dad is a use case because he went out and bought one] |
| 20:10.07 | juergbi | Jaffa: maybe this helps in addition to the gtk documentation, http://www.vala-project.org/doc/docu/gtk+-2.0.vapi/index.html |
| 20:10.09 | dieman | [so honestly, this isn't hypothetical for me] |
| 20:10.24 | juergbi | Jaffa: we want a complete documentation of the bindings in the end, of course |
| 20:10.33 | sjgadsby | dieman: Mine too. |
| 20:10.40 | GeneralAntilles | Part of it, for me, is that even though it ships on the device 99% of users wont find it and enable it without help. |
| 20:10.40 | Jaffa | Toba_: the extras repository is an "application catalog" (sic) containing lots of third party extra applications. The Application Manager ships with it configured, but disabled, and so the user has to go and explicitly tick a hidden checkbox to see a whole bunch of extra applications which could value-add their tablet experience. |
| 20:10.52 | Toba_ | oh, so stable software that isn't completely old and boring? |
| 20:11.09 | Toba_ | I use it, but you mean 'shipping' as in 'working when you get it' |
| 20:11.10 | GeneralAntilles | and a lot of the questions I see popping up these days can be solved by shipping it enabled |
| 20:11.13 | Jaffa | juergbi: cool, ta. I should've looked at the Vala website a bit better (which, sitting as it does within gnome.org's overall layout is a little hard to navigate without lots of back-button pressing) |
| 20:11.21 | GeneralAntilles | or making it easier for the user to find their way to enabling it. |
| 20:11.31 | dieman | Jaffa: if anything, point to Ubuntu's decision to enable universe as a shipped option |
| 20:12.30 | Jaffa | dieman: but they've got a whole raft of s/w available out-of-the box so that's an argument in favour. It's just good quality, QA-ed software. If we had an extras QA process, we could enable extras on shipped devices (I say "we", I mean Nokia) |
| 20:12.34 | Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: agreed 100% |
| 20:12.53 | *** join/#maemo acydlord (n=acydlord@ip70-190-193-200.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 20:12.54 | juergbi | Jaffa: yes, a properly strcutured website is also on the plan ;) |
| 20:13.02 | GeneralAntilles | This would be another possible approach: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:GeneralAntilles/Improving_the_Application_manager#New_buttons |
| 20:13.40 | lcuk_ | jaffa, dont most users find "extras" switched on after their first visit to maemo.org website and clicking one of the many .install files on the games list? |
| 20:14.08 | Jaffa | juergbi: one thing you might be able to answer, I want to add a timer (which I can enable/disable on certain DBUS events). The tutorial shows doing it in a GLib mainloop, but I'd expect to see Gtk.timeout_add()... but don't (not even a grep of the vapi files turns it up) |
| 20:14.11 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk_, I doubt MOST users find their way to maemo.org |
| 20:14.19 | dieman | anyhow |
| 20:14.21 | dieman | must go |
| 20:14.26 | Jaffa | lcuk_: I think you're over-estimating the experience of the "average" (i.e. median, or mode) user. |
| 20:15.10 | Jaffa | Especially if, when we get to step 5, it's a consumer device and OS which will be available through, say, high-street stores like Argos, Woolworths or various local equivalents. |
| 20:15.14 | *** join/#maemo b0unc3 (n=b0unc3@host-84-223-137-96.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 20:15.30 | rm_you | morning.... |
| 20:15.38 | aquatix | hey you |
| 20:15.50 | juergbi | Jaffa: gtk_timeout_add is deprecated for quite some time. Gtk.main () uses a normal GLib main loop, so you can use GLib.Timeout.add() |
| 20:16.17 | Jaffa | juergbi: ah, fair enough. Not done enough Gtk development recently. |
| 20:16.17 | juergbi | (feel free to join #vala on gimpnet) |
| 20:16.23 | Jaffa | Ta. |
| 20:16.27 | juergbi | yw |
| 20:17.00 | Jaffa | Cuppa first. Then some TV. Then trying to get an early night so may try and resist a late-night hacking session. Want to kick some donkey on my first day back at work tomorrow in 2 weeks :-) |
| 20:17.02 | sjgadsby | Give a Yes/No option to enable extras--along with the standard, Nokia "this may eat your tablet" disclaimer--as part of initial setup. |
| 20:17.24 | GeneralAntilles | sjgadsby, that's an option. |
| 20:17.34 | GeneralAntilles | Part of the tutorial home applet, maybe? |
| 20:17.34 | Jaffa | sjgadsby: nice idea, especially if it included the option to never show the "eat your tablet" warning again. Or hell, even if it did. |
| 20:17.37 | sjgadsby | Or upon first opening of app manager. |
| 20:18.10 | Jaffa | I like it as part of initial setup. You've done date/time, phone, Internet access. Third party apps are a crucial part of the maemo vision, AIUI. |
| 20:18.56 | GeneralAntilles | Alright, I guess I'll put this together as a sort of meta bug. |
| 20:20.16 | *** join/#maemo b0unc3_ (n=b0unc3@host-84-223-153-111.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 20:22.24 | lcuk_ | what i find strange is: from the default tableteer page they are heavily pushing numptyphysics - following default instructions takes you to a garage page.. |
| 20:22.30 | lcuk_ | http://tableteer.nokia.com/tableteer/os2008/os2008.xhtml |
| 20:24.05 | lcuk_ | maemomapper links take you to maemo.org and a .install file |
| 20:24.31 | lcuk_ | isnt this tableteer link the first and only thing on your desktop at install time? |
| 20:24.53 | GeneralAntilles | Default desktop: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6c/Itos_2008_desktop.jpg |
| 20:25.14 | lcuk_ | whats streamtuner? i had tableteer |
| 20:25.18 | GeneralAntilles | It rotates. |
| 20:25.52 | lcuk_ | you sure? mine only ever showed 1 |
| 20:26.30 | lcuk_ | "web shortcut" has 1 image and 1 web address |
| 20:26.51 | GeneralAntilles | Yes, I'm quite sure. |
| 20:28.19 | lcuk_ | hmmm, did you update to the strange 50.3 thing that noone knew what was different on it was? |
| 20:28.34 | GeneralAntilles | 51-3 was just the NOLO upgrade. |
| 20:29.11 | lcuk_ | go into the settings of your "web shortcut" applet - how does it get a list of things to view? how does it change the images? |
| 20:29.25 | GeneralAntilles | OK, whatever, it doesn't rotate. |
| 20:29.28 | GeneralAntilles | I don't care right now. :P |
| 20:29.31 | GeneralAntilles | Just let me write up this bug. |
| 20:29.35 | Dekaritae | I am root and I have a document open in vi, but I cannot edit it |
| 20:29.36 | lcuk_ | lol |
| 20:31.12 | *** join/#maemo evaryont (n=colin@pool-141-156-162-51.esr.east.verizon.net) |
| 20:31.34 | Dekaritae | I think the file is read only but I do not know the equivalent to "attrib" |
| 20:31.59 | evaryont | what keys do I need to add to apt-key to allow apt-get update to successfully & smoothly run? |
| 20:36.29 | Po84 | later gators |
| 20:36.59 | Dekaritae | Ok, I have done 'chmod a+w matchbox.defs' |
| 20:37.03 | *** join/#maemo l7_ (n=l7@evil-wire.org) |
| 20:37.10 | Dekaritae | But I still cannot make changes in vi |
| 20:39.32 | Dekaritae | Durr command mode |
| 20:41.15 | *** join/#maemo b0unc3 (n=b0unc3@host-84-223-153-144.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 20:41.41 | Dekaritae | Yay worked |
| 20:42.24 | Dekaritae | <keebler> And to my proudness, my 3yrd just made her first kill on halo... (I left to check my email and she picked up the controller. |
| 20:44.20 | acydlord | congrats lol |
| 20:45.29 | sinak | does n800 have a sudo password? |
| 20:46.15 | *** join/#maemo b0unc3__ (n=b0unc3@host-84-223-154-208.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 20:46.19 | sinak | i tried to make a tar of my root folder |
| 20:46.26 | GeneralAntilles | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3279 |
| 20:46.29 | *** join/#maemo Khertan_ (n=user@AAmiens-151-1-3-165.w83-192.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 20:46.35 | sinak | and it said Permission Denied |
| 20:46.47 | GeneralAntilles | ~easyroot |
| 20:46.48 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, easyroot is an easy way to get root access on OS2008 and can be found at http://nitapps.com |
| 20:49.01 | sinak | GeneralAntilles ~easyroot is the password? |
| 20:49.21 | GeneralAntilles | sinak, click the link |
| 20:49.27 | GeneralAntilles | scroll down to the easyroot package. |
| 20:50.13 | acydlord | i never installed easyroot and sudo gainroot - worked just fine |
| 20:50.37 | sinak | ah ok! |
| 20:50.39 | sinak | thanks |
| 20:50.41 | acydlord | and i put way too much milk in this coffee |
| 20:50.45 | Proteous | heh |
| 20:50.51 | GeneralAntilles | Then you must've enabled R&D mode, acydlord. |
| 20:50.51 | Proteous | just add more coffeeeeeee |
| 20:51.14 | *** join/#maemo BabelO (n=Fabrice@lun34-2-82-238-28-28.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 20:51.19 | acydlord | it's a cup at a time maker, so i'm stuck with this one till its gone |
| 20:51.31 | acydlord | and at $13 a lb i'm not gonna pour it out lol |
| 20:51.43 | Proteous | that's not too bad of a price |
| 20:52.00 | *** join/#maemo BabelO (n=Fabrice@lun34-2-82-238-28-28.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 20:52.20 | GeneralAntilles | lol coffee |
| 20:52.23 | *** join/#maemo RP_ (i=1000@tim.rpsys.net) |
| 20:52.24 | GeneralAntilles | sugar highs are more exciting |
| 20:52.37 | Proteous | we have a local roaster here in town that does good work, the prices are about that, $11-$13 per lb |
| 20:53.55 | rm_you | Dekaritae: w! |
| 20:53.59 | rm_you | exclamation does a force |
| 20:54.05 | rm_you | don't need to change write perms |
| 20:54.17 | acydlord | there are a couple local roasters out here, but i've only been buying fairtrade coffee lately |
| 20:54.51 | Dekaritae | rm_you: When I started vi I was not able to edit the document. I did not know of command mode |
| 20:55.19 | rm_you | OH lol |
| 20:55.24 | rm_you | never used VI before? :P |
| 20:55.29 | Dekaritae | My preferred editor is TextPad 5 |
| 20:55.35 | Proteous | joe FTW!! |
| 20:55.38 | rm_you | VIM is win :P |
| 20:55.40 | Proteous | or pico/nano |
| 20:55.48 | Proteous | for us n00bs that are scared of VI |
| 20:55.48 | Dekaritae | I would rather Leafpad |
| 20:55.48 | rm_you | bleh pico |
| 20:56.09 | sjgadsby | TextPad is nice. I love block select mode. |
| 20:56.14 | Dekaritae | Yus! |
| 20:56.24 | GeneralAntilles | nano is segfault hell on the tablet |
| 20:56.50 | Dekaritae | I am trying to launch the gpe-filemanager as root but I get an error |
| 20:57.26 | Dekaritae | Something about D-Bus library being incorrectly set up |
| 20:57.36 | acydlord | I have a vi cheatsheet on my n810 |
| 20:57.47 | rm_you | I have a VI cheatsheet in my brain |
| 20:57.50 | rm_you | wait, that isn't cheating |
| 20:57.52 | rm_you | nm |
| 20:57.56 | acydlord | i used to but i got out of practice |
| 20:58.09 | Dekaritae | I haven't received my hardware keyboard yet so I am fumbling with the virtual |
| 20:58.10 | rm_you | it has taken me about 5 years :P |
| 20:58.32 | acydlord | gksu corrupted me |
| 20:59.04 | *** join/#maemo andpoul (n=andpoul@c-76-115-184-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 20:59.21 | andpoul | hi, I've been having difficulty creating an account on maemo.org |
| 20:59.31 | andpoul | whom should I address this to? |
| 20:59.52 | Dekaritae | Whom are you addressing now? |
| 20:59.55 | andpoul | ok, nm, working now |
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| 21:25.29 | Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: do we know how 'peterschneider' is, BTW? |
| 21:25.35 | Jaffa | s/how/who/ |
| 21:25.41 | GeneralAntilles | Quim's manager, evidently. |
| 21:25.54 | Jaffa | only saw the name for the first time today. |
| 21:25.56 | Jaffa | Ah, I see. |
| 21:26.15 | GeneralAntilles | He may be a bit new |
| 21:26.27 | GeneralAntilles | I think X-Fade mentioned meeting him early in the year. |
| 21:27.43 | Jaffa | It's interesting that a more senior Nokia person than Quim is drafting "Welcome to the maemo.org community" things whilst both Nokia and that community are trying to put more control in the community itself. |
| 21:27.58 | GeneralAntilles | Hehe |
| 21:28.56 | GeneralAntilles | If it's well-written and useful, it's not skin off my back. :D |
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| 21:29.01 | GeneralAntilles | s/not/no/ |
| 21:30.07 | timely | Jaffa: where is this doc? |
| 21:30.25 | Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: True, but it's harder (both mentally and physically) to totally redefine something from someone senior. It starts reading like a front page of the community website, but who's going to read it, rather than just close their browser? Hence, my question about purpose on the talk page. |
| 21:30.27 | GeneralAntilles | https://wiki.maemo.org/User:Peterschneider |
| 21:30.45 | Jaffa | s/physically/politically/ |
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| 21:31.16 | GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, sign that properly. |
| 21:31.21 | GeneralAntilles | Oh |
| 21:31.22 | GeneralAntilles | You did |
| 21:31.55 | Jaffa | Just have. Forgot I wasn't logged in (one of the reasons I've a distaste for anonymous edits ;-)) |
| 21:32.18 | GeneralAntilles | There's a mediawiki plugin to log you in when you submit an edit if you aren't already. |
| 21:32.29 | timely | GeneralAntilles: zeenix changed groups, he probably can't say much until close to the next release :) |
| 21:32.44 | GeneralAntilles | Oh, he's with Nokia? |
| 21:32.50 | Jaffa | hadn't realised that either. |
| 21:33.14 | Jaffa | All he'd talked about s/w wise that I'd seen was gupnp stuff (which I've no interest in, seemed to be desktop software, but at least /was/ software ;-)) |
| 21:34.01 | GeneralAntilles | We could really use that "Who's who" map right about now. |
| 21:34.23 | Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: enableble in my account or is it a global thing? |
| 21:34.34 | GeneralAntilles | It's a plugin |
| 21:34.37 | GeneralAntilles | Somebody'd have to install it. |
| 21:34.37 | timely | jaffa / GeneralAntilles : #jaffa ? |
| 21:35.28 | timely | so not my fault... i gave dneary his head start over a month ago |
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| 21:42.25 | timely | GeneralAntilles: in general i think it's safe to assume people talking about helsinki probably are |
| 21:42.30 | timely | especially if they don't make sense and don't sound like finns :) |
| 21:42.36 | timely | if they sound like finns, assume they aren't :) |
| 21:42.45 | GeneralAntilles | lol |
| 21:43.03 | timely | hey, the logic works... |
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| 21:51.11 | Dekaritae | Is there a trick to moving the xterm toolbar from the bottom to the right? |
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| 21:52.43 | rm_you | wow, upgraded bash-completion package in Sid and now it just FAILS |
| 21:52.59 | sinak | is there an openoffice for N800? |
| 21:53.38 | lardman | ssvb: hi |
| 21:53.54 | lardman | ssvb: Sorry for the late reply, I'll be interested to hear how you get on |
| 21:54.08 | acydlord | no OOo for maemo yet |
| 21:54.26 | lardman | ssvb: I timed the data transfer vs processing and it's ~3.4s for transfer vs ~20s for transfer + processing |
| 21:54.36 | lardman | s/3.4/3.5 |
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| 21:55.12 | ssvb | lardman: so data transfer takes almost the same time as full processing on ARM? |
| 21:55.23 | lardman | yes, perhaps even a bit more |
| 21:55.54 | ssvb | lardman: regarding DMA, I got it working |
| 21:56.07 | lardman | ah, good to hear |
| 21:56.13 | lardman | have you documented it anywhere? |
| 21:57.07 | ssvb | lardman: I posted a link to this channel, I'm still experimenting with its performance |
| 21:57.28 | lardman | ssvb: Am heading for bed now, but will have a look at the channel log tomorrow for your link |
| 21:57.43 | ssvb | lardman: right now I'm verifying if instructions cache is enabled on DSP |
| 21:58.17 | lardman | ssvb: lower level than I've been looking at; I look forward to seeing what you find |
| 21:58.18 | ssvb | lardman: because I suspect that it might be not enabled |
| 21:58.47 | lardman | got to go; will have a chat with you in the week |
| 21:58.50 | lardman | night all |
| 22:06.11 | Dekaritae | My N800 is stuck in a reboot loop again |
| 22:06.23 | Dekaritae | Immediately after installing VIM and EmelFM2 |
| 22:08.36 | GeneralAntilles | You did something wrong, then. |
| 22:09.12 | Dekaritae | I rebooted so that the change I made to matchbox.defs would take effect |
| 22:10.13 | Jaffa | So your N800 is stuck is a reboot loop again, immediately after *editing the window manager's configuration files*. Nothing to do with the application's you've installed. |
| 22:10.41 | Dekaritae | I edited them based on a post on the forums, which led me to assume that other people have tried this and had it succeed |
| 22:10.53 | Jaffa | Dekaritae: disable the lifeguard reset using a flasher tool, fix the problem in matchbox.defs and try again. |
| 22:10.59 | Dekaritae | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18920 |
| 22:11.08 | Jaffa | Dekaritae: pff, 1) never make changes blind, 2) never believe anything you read in a forum ;-) |
| 22:11.40 | Dekaritae | This is making me appreciate Palm much more |
| 22:11.52 | Jaffa | Where you couldn't hack around with the window manager? |
| 22:12.04 | Dekaritae | What? |
| 22:12.16 | Dekaritae | I just changed the DIALOGMODE=static to DIALOGMODE=free |
| 22:12.45 | Jaffa | And how would you do that on Palm? You said you appreciated Palm a lot more after this. |
| 22:13.02 | Jaffa | 's experience of Palm OS was so brief and painful, I'm really interested. |
| 22:13.28 | Dekaritae | In the sense that if you fuck up and render the device unbootable, you can completely restore from backups |
| 22:13.39 | GeneralAntilles | You can do that here, too. |
| 22:13.45 | acydlord | funny, you can do that on the tablet too |
| 22:13.52 | Dekaritae | Rather than backed up user files and having the reinstall from packages |
| 22:14.08 | GeneralAntilles | Woo, tar! |
| 22:14.16 | acydlord | my n810 backs up everything to one of my servers twice a day |
| 22:14.31 | GeneralAntilles | Palm had to do it that way because running out of battery meant you lost everything |
| 22:14.38 | GeneralAntilles | or going through airport security |
| 22:14.43 | Dekaritae | Which I can't do because that thing next door is blotting my wifi |
| 22:14.52 | GeneralAntilles | Uh, change channels? |
| 22:14.59 | Dekaritae | I've done that before |
| 22:15.11 | acydlord | or plug in the usb cable like you have to do with a palm device |
| 22:15.18 | Dekaritae | Channel 11 allows for wi-fi signal _sometimes_ |
| 22:15.27 | Dekaritae | Everything else is blot |
| 22:15.28 | acydlord | pick up a mimo router |
| 22:15.54 | Dekaritae | I'm thinking USB ethernet |
| 22:16.12 | acydlord | or buy some copper mesh and make a faraday cage |
| 22:16.19 | kkrusty | is there any mplayer frontend with decent support for playlists? |
| 22:16.28 | acydlord | canola |
| 22:17.53 | Dekaritae | Grr, I cannot download 2008HE from Nokia because it says my WLAN ID is invalid |
| 22:19.11 | acydlord | just do what we did to get os2008 earlier |
| 22:19.23 | Dekaritae | Eh |
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| 22:20.53 | Dekaritae | Fook it I will just flash it regular and be done with it |
| 22:21.11 | Dekaritae | I am taking this as a sign that I should make a real computor if I wish to fook with linux |
| 22:21.45 | acydlord | if you want to fully use linux, yes |
| 22:22.51 | kkrusty | acydlord: hmm no playlists for flv files |
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| 22:31.06 | kkrusty | is there a secret pact to treat that question with silence? :) |
| 22:32.26 | summatusmentis | is there a vnc viewer for maemo? |
| 22:33.00 | GeneralAntilles | http://www.google.com/search?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&q=vnc+viewer+maemo |
| 22:33.08 | summatusmentis | lol, alright alright |
| 22:33.19 | summatusmentis | I didn't knwo if there was one in extras or nt |
| 22:33.30 | GeneralAntilles | No, somebody needs to push that to Extras. |
| 22:34.44 | acydlord | kkrusty, i didnt know that was a question, looked like a statement to me :p and to be honest, i've never even bothered to play flv files on my tablet |
| 22:34.48 | Jaffa | We've not really got a clear policy on whether it's acceptable for a semi-actively maintained application to be pushed to extras by anyone not involved in its development. I suppose dropping the author "mind if I upload it" wouldn't get a "no" response, but then we're in the "what if the person who uploaded it, doesn't ever upload a newer version" situation. |
| 22:35.11 | Jaffa | Oh, that gets us back to my ideas on auto-updating extras when the author releases something. |
| 22:35.31 | GeneralAntilles | s/somebody/the guy that put it together/ |
| 22:35.47 | Jaffa | Better :-) |
| 22:36.12 | Jaffa | Anyway, sleep. I already think I'm going to be dealing with work email and drinking a Red Bull on the train tomorrow morning. |
| 22:36.17 | GeneralAntilles | What I actually meant to say was, "No, somebody needs to get the author to push that to Extras." |
| 22:36.26 | kkrusty | acydlord: the FE that comes with mplayer seems to be able to play flv files. If canola is just a frontend then I guess its simply an act of allowing flvs through the filter |
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| 22:40.25 | summatusmentis | GeneralAntilles: that's awesome :) OS X on my n810 :-D |
| 22:40.35 | GeneralAntilles | Slow though |
| 22:40.56 | GeneralAntilles | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=194414&postcount=713 Where do people come up with this shit? |
| 22:40.59 | summatusmentis | yes, but it'll be nice if I need to get something from my laptop and I'm not near it |
| 22:42.04 | summatusmentis | why is that unreasonable? |
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| 22:42.34 | GeneralAntilles | Well, Fennec is still in "broken as shit" mode |
| 22:42.47 | GeneralAntilles | and Nokia isn't licensing Opera anymore |
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| 22:43.50 | summatusmentis | ok, so licensing issues might get in the way, but the poster did have an 'both browsers would need to be not in alpha mode' disclaimer |
| 22:44.10 | summatusmentis | but I tend to agree that broser choice is good(not that I care, I like microb) |
| 22:44.25 | sinak | gn ppl |
| 22:44.37 | GeneralAntilles | Well, getting Opera for OS2008 costs $$$ |
| 22:45.09 | GeneralAntilles | So, the first question to answer is, why the hell would Nokia pay for Opera to be ported and licensed when they're already paying for a perfectly good browser? |
| 22:45.27 | GeneralAntilles | Fennec is still a ways from actually being usable. |
| 22:45.31 | GeneralAntilles | Besides, at boot up? |
| 22:45.37 | GeneralAntilles | You have plenty of browser choice |
| 22:45.46 | GeneralAntilles | but it's stupid to present that choice to clueless users at boot up. |
| 22:45.55 | GeneralAntilles | They're just going to pick a random choice |
| 22:45.59 | GeneralAntilles | or maybe the one they recognize |
| 22:47.02 | summatusmentis | well, they do a 'what's your cell privder' dialog at first boot, with no exlanation |
| 22:47.09 | summatusmentis | not any idfferent really |
| 22:47.18 | GeneralAntilles | Yes it is |
| 22:47.21 | summatusmentis | urgh... laggy interwebs |
| 22:47.22 | GeneralAntilles | that question has a clear answer. |
| 22:47.27 | GeneralAntilles | What cellphone provider do you use? |
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| 22:47.42 | summatusmentis | sure, but there's no reason given |
| 22:48.37 | GeneralAntilles | It's a flawed analogy. |
| 22:48.41 | GeneralAntilles | and a stupid idea. ;) |
| 22:49.12 | summatusmentis | well, flawed analogy, maybe, more config options at first boot, maybe not |
| 22:49.24 | lcuk | best reason not to: space considerations. BUT i would also like the choice to be available to user via installation from extras or something |
| 22:49.24 | summatusmentis | s/maybe not/maybe not a stupid idea/ |
| 22:49.46 | summatusmentis | lcuk: touche |
| 22:49.48 | GeneralAntilles | Well, Opera's never going to happen unless Nokia pays up |
| 22:49.52 | GeneralAntilles | which they have no reason to do. |
| 22:49.59 | GeneralAntilles | and Fennec is still a long ways from being usable. |
| 22:50.03 | GeneralAntilles | So the point is pretty moot. |
| 22:50.13 | summatusmentis | wrt browsers, yes |
| 22:50.28 | GeneralAntilles | Which is the point we're discussing. |
| 22:50.29 | lcuk | would a webkit based browser work on here? |
| 22:50.43 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk, sure, but you'd have to get somebody to actually code it up. |
| 22:50.53 | GeneralAntilles | You can already use WebKit + Epiphany |
| 22:51.08 | lcuk | or find one of the cheap and cheerful test versions im sure someone has made throughout the internets |
| 22:51.10 | GeneralAntilles | They both just suck right now. |
| 22:51.30 | GeneralAntilles | So offering WebKit/Epiphany to new users at bootup would be retarded. |
| 22:51.42 | GeneralAntilles | They pick that and their browser works like shit. |
| 22:51.44 | lcuk | no i agree GeneralAntilles 100% with you |
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| 22:51.55 | lcuk | asking the user is pointless |
| 22:52.15 | GeneralAntilles | The choice should be: decent-quality browsers are available to be installed from Extras |
| 22:52.29 | lcuk | but if the user wants something else they could see just how bad they are (and it might be site specific) whether they work for them |
| 22:52.30 | GeneralAntilles | and the user can pick their preferred browser just like on a desktop machine. |
| 22:52.53 | GeneralAntilles | Nokia needs to revamp the dbus file handing a bit |
| 22:53.04 | GeneralAntilles | So you can choose default applications to handle certain types of files |
| 22:53.31 | lcuk | thats simply the default file explorer |
| 22:54.34 | lcuk | "simply" is relative of course ;) |
| 22:57.05 | Dekaritae | So after restoring from backup. It opens application manager, and installs nothing |
| 22:57.36 | Dekaritae | How do I restore apps |
| 22:58.03 | GeneralAntilles | What OS version? |
| 22:58.07 | Dekaritae | OS2008 |
| 22:58.41 | GeneralAntilles | It's somewhere in the menu. |
| 22:59.38 | Dekaritae | I see nothing relevant |
| 23:00.01 | GeneralAntilles | Look harder |
| 23:00.03 | GeneralAntilles | it's definitely in there. |
| 23:00.08 | Dekaritae | On the sidebar I have two Web navigators and no Contacts |
| 23:00.19 | GeneralAntilles | Er, Application manager menu. |
| 23:00.29 | GeneralAntilles | You definitely need to re-enable Extras first. |
| 23:00.59 | Dekaritae | Ah yes |
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| 23:10.58 | acydlord | woops, soft reset explorer |
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