IRC log for #maemo on 20080528

`00:00.28`	`GAN8001`	`summatusmentis, I'm pulling down the firmware right now. If you don't manage it with Windows, I'll have it ready for you in about an hour.`
`00:02.02`	`summatusmentis`	`GAN8001: I'm working on summer of code simlutaneously, I'd appreiate just using yours`
`00:02.39`	`GAN8001`	`It's an N800 image, so you'll have to do a little tap dancing to get it to flash, but it'll work.`
`00:06.00`	`summatusmentis`	`GAN8001: what sort of tap dancing?`
`00:06.30`	`wolfspirit`	`ok vgba says it's unable to load the .sta file when loading any of my games.. I don't have an sta file.. that looks like a special format for vgba to load save states`
`00:07.09`	`GAN8001`	`The FIASCO image has to be extracted and each part needs to be flashed individually.`
`00:07.24`	`summatusmentis`	`heh, ok...`
`00:07.34`	`GAN8001`	`Simple to do, but more work than just flasher-2.0 -F <FIASCO image> -f -R ;)`
`00:12.47`	`GAN8001`	`Hrm, what happened to the Misdirected product in Bugzilla?`
`00:15.14`	`*** join/#maemo greentux_ (n=lemke@Z6bf2.z.pppool.de)`
`00:16.25`	`GAN8001`	`sighs.`
`00:16.39`	`GAN8001`	`We need somebody in the Western hemisphere working on this stuff`
`00:16.47`	`GAN8001`	`Dem Euros go to bed too early. . . .`
`00:21.20`	`GAN8001`	`Ah, Quim's on it.`
`00:24.18`	`GAN8001`	`summatusmentis, 40-ish minutes . . . Comcast is being stupid.`
`00:25.41`	`summatusmentis`	`GAN8001: no worries`
`00:26.43`	`GAN8001`	`is gonna maintain a mirror of this stuff on my non-shitty connection in the future.`
`00:27.16`	`GAN8001`	`summatusmentis, I've tried to help at least 3 other people update their new tablets over the past two months . . . tablets-dev has been down or generally unresponsive every time. <_<`
`00:27.46`	`summatusmentis`	`:-/ that's annoying`
`00:27.49`	`summatusmentis`	`I appreciate it`
`00:27.58`	`GAN8001`	`Yessir. :D`
`00:31.05`	`*** join/#maemo Grackle_ (n=alex@164-207.suscom-maine.net)`
`00:41.16`	`*** join/#maemo yllus (i=sully@CPE00508d7bbe5b-CM00159a07f436.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`00:41.44`	`yllus`	`hey guys. Anyone running PyPlucker? I wish I could get it working on my 770.`
`00:54.02`	`*** join/#maemo harry (n=kcome@58.213.222.45)`
`01:00.02`	`GAN8001`	`summatusmentis, 5 minutes.`
`01:00.05`	`*** join/#maemo \|penguinbait\| (n=kvirc@c-68-62-90-22.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)`
`01:00.17`	`summatusmentis`	`GAN8001: ok, thanks :)`
`01:00.34`	`\|penguinbait\|`	`whats up with the repos?`
`01:01.34`	`GAN8001`	`https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3194`
`01:02.01`	`\|penguinbait\|`	`I could care less about the stupid bug`
`01:02.07`	`\|penguinbait\|`	`this crap is getting old`
`01:02.25`	`\|penguinbait\|`	`ARGH!!!!!!!!`
`01:02.38`	`GAN8001`	`\|penguinbait\|, well, it's where you're going to get status updates. :\`
`01:02.54`	`GAN8001`	`So, you want to know what's up, but you don't want the answer?`
`01:03.12`	`\|penguinbait\|`	`I assume the status update will come when I can use it again`
`01:03.37`	`GAN8001`	`Then why ask what's up if you know you wont get an answer? :P`
`01:03.53`	`\|penguinbait\|`	`I thought someone might actually know something`
`01:05.22`	`GAN8001`	`Yeah, the bug.`
`01:05.49`	`GAN8001`	`We know Quim knows about it.`
`01:06.03`	`GAN8001`	`That's as much usefulness as I can give you, no need to snap at me. ;)`
`01:06.43`	`\|penguinbait\|`	`Not aware that I did`
`01:07.19`	`GAN8001`	`[9:02pm] <\|penguinbait\|> I could care less about the stupid bug`
`01:07.33`	`GAN8001`	`Evidently I misinterpreted your meaning. My apologies.`
`01:07.36`	`\|penguinbait\|`	`Its just a fact`
`01:07.41`	`*** join/#maemo Benson (n=root@gluggar.aero.nd.edu)`
`01:07.49`	`GAN8001`	`It's Benson!`
`01:07.55`	`GAN8001`	`(XChat or irssi?)`
`01:08.07`	`\|penguinbait\|`	`Telling people to file bug requests for a server being down is stupid at best`
`01:08.15`	`Benson`	`irssi`
`01:08.23`	`GAN8001`	`Good choice. ;)`
`01:08.41`	`GAN8001`	`\|penguinbait\|, it'd be nice to have a red phone lying about somewhere.`
`01:08.46`	`Benson`	`I'm in trouble...`
`01:08.57`	`Benson`	`I was messing with initfs`
`01:08.58`	`GAN8001`	`But bugzilla is a fairly effective way to get as many eyes on it as possible as quickly as possible.`
`01:09.11`	`Benson`	`On the day the server happens to go down`
`01:09.16`	`GAN8001`	`lol`
`01:09.17`	`\|penguinbait\|`	`you can just reflash the original initfs Benson`
`01:09.25`	`GAN8001`	`Give me a minute or two, Benson.`
`01:09.28`	`Benson`	`And found out I don't have the original image anywhere`
`01:09.33`	`Benson`	`:(`
`01:09.35`	`GAN8001`	`I'm mirroring the FIASCO image for summatusmentis.`
`01:09.44`	`\|penguinbait\|`	`you can unback from flash, cant you`
`01:09.45`	`GAN8001`	`I'll pull the initfs for you.`
`01:09.55`	`GAN8001`	`Just md5ing it to make sure it didn't get screwed up.`
`01:10.01`	`Benson`	`Thanks!`
`01:11.00`	`Benson`	`\|penguinbait\|: You mean retrieve the current flash contents?`
`01:12.27`	`GAN8001`	`MD5 looks good . . . Unpacking. . .`
`01:13.28`	`GAN8001`	`http://thor.homeunix.org/initfs.jffs2.zip for Benson`
`01:13.30`	`\|penguinbait\|`	`I mean you can use the flash tool and unpack the initfs from the flash image`
`01:13.42`	`GAN8001`	`http://thor.homeunix.org/flasher-2.0.zip for summatusmentis`
`01:13.59`	`\|penguinbait\|`	`the RX image not flash on the system`
`01:14.10`	`GAN8001`	`Benson, MD5 (/Library/WebServer/Documents/initfs.jffs2) = dea5e55cf693f77ee982f3efe9462336`
`01:14.59`	`Benson`	`Downloading...`
`01:16.51`	`Benson`	`Got it! Thanks.`
`01:16.55`	`GAN8001`	`Sure`
`01:16.58`	`GAN8001`	`Good timing. ;)`
`01:17.52`	`Benson`	`\|penguinbait\|: Yes, but I don't have the image. I downloaded with a liveCD here on my Windows machine, and I didn't save it to harddrive.`
`01:21.43`	`GAN8001`	`By the bye, Benson, Benson is already registered, but it hasn't been used in almost two years.`
`01:22.07`	`GAN8001`	`(Assuming it wasn't you) You'll need to talk to a staffer about having it dropped and re-registered.`
`01:22.23`	`Benson`	`I couldn't get /msg nickserv <anything> to give any output.`
`01:22.50`	`Benson`	`Which probably means I'm doing something wrong. (And it definitely wasn't me.)`
`01:22.51`	`GAN8001`	`It'll show up in another tab`
`01:22.55`	`GAN8001`	`Switch tabs with alt-#`
`01:23.17`	`WorkingOnWise`	`does anyone here use Debian on their N800?`
`01:23.35`	`Benson`	`WorkingOnWise: I do, a little`
`01:24.21`	`WorkingOnWise`	`is there a good on screen keyboard for it? one that pops up as neede like in the default ui?`
`01:24.52`	`GAN8001`	`press center-dpad`
`01:24.56`	`GAN8001`	`It uses the matchbox keyboard`
`01:26.18`	`*** join/#maemo Crfrod (n=Crfrod@88.214.193.26)`
`01:26.24`	`WorkingOnWise`	`I havent actually put it on yet. I ran KDE and have troubles with the on screen keyboard there. It's a bit cumbersom. Was wondering (hoping) if the debial setup was a little more touchscreen friendly?`
`01:27.25`	`Benson`	`OK, so that's alt-#, where # is the tab number, not where # is shift+3...`
`01:27.32`	`GAN8001`	`Haha`
`01:27.35`	`GAN8001`	`Yessir.`
`01:27.37`	`Benson`	`Now it does something :o`
`01:29.51`	`GAN8001`	`Decent introduction, Benson: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=186393`
`01:30.06`	`GAN8001`	`Also, get it into a screen session ASAP`
`01:31.47`	`Benson`	`That looks like an introduction to... Nokia's server being down?`
`01:31.56`	`GAN8001`	`Ugh`
`01:32.05`	`GAN8001`	`The clipboard is really slow on this machine`
`01:32.06`	`GAN8001`	`http://linuxreviews.org/software/irc/irssi/`
`01:32.08`	`GAN8001`	`That's the one.`
`01:32.35`	`Benson`	`ATM I'm running on a liveCD, for flashing. (Which, BTW, worked beautifully) So it wouldn't be horribly helpful to put it in screen.`
`01:32.52`	`GAN8001`	`Ha`
`01:32.53`	`Benson`	`I'll do that though, on the tablet and/or cygwin.`
`01:32.54`	`GAN8001`	`OK then`
`01:33.01`	`GAN8001`	`Windows?`
`01:33.04`	`GAN8001`	`Gross.`
`01:33.15`	`Benson`	`Need it for Mathcad...`
`01:33.25`	`GAN8001`	`Best plan is to find yourself a VPS to stick it on.`
`01:34.18`	`*** join/#maemo vcgomes (n=Vinicius@189.70.25.218)`
`01:35.16`	`Benson`	`Well, my cygwin box is pretty reliable, and always on except when I need to flash (at school).`
`01:35.36`	`Benson`	`I think I'll probably leave it on there, and ssh with the tablet.`
`01:35.39`	`*** join/#maemo dick-richardson (n=joshua@host-193-138-220-24.midco.net)`
`01:37.09`	`GAN8001`	`You may also look into irssi-proxying`
`01:37.30`	`GAN8001`	`It'll let you use XChat on the tablet (which is arguably more usable than irssi with the N800).`
`01:38.31`	`*** join/#maemo ab_ (n=ab@ppp91-76-44-240.pppoe.mtu-net.ru)`
`01:39.01`	`*** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=salveti@189.70.178.222)`
`01:41.55`	`summatusmentis`	`is there a way to get rid of this stupid ad widget?`
`01:42.09`	`GAN8001`	`Tap the menu while you're on the desktop`
`01:42.13`	`beford`	`Home -> Select Applets`
`01:42.23`	`GAN8001`	`^`
`01:42.40`	`beford`	`Disable Get Started / Tableteer info`
`01:43.09`	`summatusmentis`	`awesome, didn't realize that menu was there`
`01:43.25`	`GAN8001`	`summatusmentis, the Getting Started applet and movie can also be uninstalled from Application manager (free up a couple of MB).`
`01:44.26`	`*** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=salveti@189.70.178.222)`
`01:44.41`	`summatusmentis`	`GAN8001: thanks`
`01:47.09`	`*** join/#maemo DaniloCesar (n=DaniloCe@200-103-246-62.ctame705.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br)`
`01:47.49`	`beford`	`quick question, how do you delete objects on numtyphysics`
`01:48.41`	`GAN8001`	`Press the escape key`
`01:49.37`	`Navi`	`or you can open the editing panel`
`01:50.04`	`GAN8001`	`Or give Navi vnc access and he'll beat the game for you.`
`01:50.31`	`beford`	`:P`
`01:50.47`	`beford`	`nah I can't figure out how to delete 'em`
`01:51.05`	`*** join/#maemo dougt (n=dougt@c-67-180-89-151.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`01:52.18`	`beford`	`I have the editing panel, (that's the one that appears with the full screen key, right?)`
`01:53.49`	`DaniloCesar`	`Hey, I can't update N8X0... I'm receiving a "Time-out" message on apt-get update... Are anyone having this pb too, or it' s my connection?`
`01:54.06`	`beford`	`repositories are down`
`01:54.07`	`Benson`	`Server's having grief.`
`01:54.13`	`GAN8001`	`https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3194`
`01:54.36`	`GAN8001`	`Add yourself to the CC list if you want to know when things are back to normal.`
`01:54.57`	`DaniloCesar`	`Thanks guys.....`
`01:56.01`	`*** join/#maemo T0b0tras (n=boris@ppp91-76-25-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru)`
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`01:59.54`	`DaniloCesar`	`I was thoughing that it was a pb with my internet connection...`
`02:03.00`	`*** join/#maemo herz1 (n=herzi@p578EBEDB.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`02:04.02`	`Cymor`	`is back (gone 22:25:50)`
`02:12.50`	`*** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=salveti@189.70.135.237)`
`02:20.44`	`*** join/#maemo rsalveti_ (n=salveti@189.70.135.237)`
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`02:41.15`	`summatusmentis`	`is anyone else having issues refreshing their package list?`
`02:42.46`	`beford`	`yes, the server is down https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3194`
`02:43.40`	`GAN800`	`Ah,right, forgot to mention that, summatusmentis, repos are down, too. :/`
`02:57.40`	`DaniloCesar`	`Can someone put this information on channel topic?`
`02:57.44`	`DaniloCesar`	`please`
`02:58.09`	`Cymor`	`is away: afk`
`03:00.18`	`*** topic/#maemo by GAN800 -> development platform for Nokia Internet Tablets \| http://maemo.org \| http://freedesktop.org/Software/sbox2/Maemo \| http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog \| http://www.gronmayer.com/it \| http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook \| Servers are down temporarily https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3194`
`03:23.10`	`summatusmentis`	`GAN8001: that would've been good to know :)`
`03:23.39`	`*** join/#maemo Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun)`
`03:24.14`	`GAN800`	`Slipped my mind. ;)`
`03:28.07`	`*** part/#maemo Benson (n=root@gluggar.aero.nd.edu)`
`03:28.56`	`summatusmentis`	`no worries, it just means my n810 is not terribly exciting until they're back up`
`03:41.09`	`*** part/#maemo zwnj (n=behnam@213.207.218.184)`
`03:45.16`	`*** join/#maemo netx (n=rlange@osiris.darkempire.org)`
`03:48.13`	`*** join/#maemo scriptex (n=scriptex@69.7.250.171)`
`03:48.34`	`scriptex`	`anyone here have a problem installing pluthon on os2008?`
`03:48.50`	`scriptex`	`depends maemo-pc-connectivity (broken packages)`
`03:53.04`	`beford`	`if its trying to install a package from the repositories it will probably fail`
`03:53.21`	`*** join/#maemo nikosapi (n=nikosapi@ip-58.46.99.216.dsl-cust.ca.inter.net)`
`03:54.41`	`nikosapi`	`not sure if I'm asking in the right place, but does anyone know where I can get sshfs for OS 2008?`
`03:55.34`	`scriptex`	`beford: thanks, I'll try to find the deb package`
`04:04.59`	`*** join/#maemo skibur (n=skibur@adsl-69-153-62-126.dsl.snantx.swbell.net)`
`04:06.52`	`*** join/#maemo l7_ (n=l7@evil-wire.org)`
`04:09.01`	`scriptex`	`anyone know where can I download the deb packages aside from the repository (which is erroring)`
`04:26.23`	`johnx`	`nikosapi, http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/download/target/pool/chinook/free/binary/`
`04:27.04`	`*** join/#maemo tjafk2 (i=timj@e176207144.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`04:29.50`	`lopz`	`night`
`04:32.36`	`scriptex`	`night`
`04:40.45`	`*** join/#maemo dforsyth (n=dforsyth@pool-71-178-203-147.washdc.fios.verizon.net)`
`04:44.25`	`nikosapi`	`johnx: cool, thanks! It works perfectly :)`
`04:44.34`	`johnx`	`:)`
`04:51.24`	`beford`	`repositories seem to be working again`
`04:55.15`	`timely`	`there's an old mirror of things at http://timeless.justdave.net/repository/repository.maemo.org/`
`04:55.18`	`*** join/#maemo mrlanra1 (n=ian@netblock-208-127-195-14.dslextreme.com)`
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`04:55.30`	`timely`	`http://timeless.justdave.net/maemo/repository-maemo-org-dns.deb`
`04:55.31`	`*** join/#maemo mrlanra1 (n=ian@netblock-208-127-195-14.dslextreme.com)`
`04:55.37`	`timely`	`would bind it if you need it for a bit`
`04:55.54`	`timely`	`when you're done, just uninstall the deb`
`04:55.55`	`johnx`	`:D You love those DNS-adjusting .deb's huh?`
`04:56.29`	`timely`	`i can't remember which one i wrote first :)`
`04:56.34`	`timely`	`but code reuse is code reuse`
`04:56.35`	`*** part/#maemo mrlanra1 (n=ian@netblock-208-127-195-14.dslextreme.com)`
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`05:44.20`	`*** join/#maemo WorkingOnWise (n=WorkingO@97-83-156-31.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com)`
`05:46.25`	`*** part/#maemo WorkingOnWise (n=WorkingO@97-83-156-31.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com)`
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`05:51.59`	`*** join/#maemo christefano (n=christef@ppp-69-239-86-229.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net)`
`06:08.50`	`*** join/#maemo benh (n=benh@147.17.168.202-static.velocitynet.com.au)`
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`06:19.37`	`zetheroo`	`I am wondering why my N800 does not see any of the shared content on the network?`
`06:23.59`	`*** join/#maemo tkharju (n=tikiviha@84-253-228-222.satp.customers.dnainternet.fi)`
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`06:54.02`	`RST38h`	`Aaaargh! N810 ate its battery during the night`
`06:54.39`	`karbas`	`what?`
`06:54.41`	`Proteous`	`how did it taste?`
`06:54.43`	`karbas`	`not mine`
`06:59.48`	`herwood`	`good morning`
`07:01.51`	`*** join/#maemo jpetersen (n=petersen@xdsl-81-173-146-186.netcologne.de)`
`07:02.38`	`herwood`	`I'm trying to hack the osso file manager. Does someone know that what should I do to make it possible to drag files from the file manager to other widget?`
`07:08.26`	`*** join/#maemo Dar (n=Dar_K@nat/sun/x-b0e9db96daf2b48b)`
`07:11.03`	`RST38h`	`Space station's toilet begins to fail, panic sinking in`
`07:11.29`	`RST38h`	`herwood: you probably can't`
`07:11.50`	`RST38h`	`at least API does not show any evidence of drag&drop support`
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`07:13.18`	`herwood`	`so is the drag&drop implemented only internally in file manager?`
`07:14.34`	`herwood`	`I'm having these problems because I'm not familiar with drag&drop functionality :P`
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`07:16.31`	`RST38h`	`herwood: I do not think it is implemented in hildon fm`
`07:16.53`	`herwood`	`hmm`
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`07:19.21`	`herwood`	`RST38h: but it is possible to drag for example files to other directories in fm or am I missing something here?`
`07:19.53`	`RST38h`	`yea, you can do it internally`
`07:20.03`	`RST38h`	`it is just not exposed`
`07:20.37`	`RST38h`	`wait, there may be a way to hack it, let me check`
`07:20.45`	`herwood`	`ok thanks`
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`07:23.45`	`RST38h`	`herwood: I have checked and none of the hildondesktop windows appear to accept drag&drop events`
`07:23.56`	`RST38h`	`looks like it is not supported after all`
`07:24.30`	`RST38h`	`there is some discussion of drag&drop in hildon, but it all appears to be centered around intra-application functionality`
`07:24.36`	`hrw`	`morning`
`07:24.40`	`RST38h`	`ehlo`
`07:24.47`	`RST38h`	`[it is your sendmail speaking]`
`07:25.30`	`RST38h`	`btw, whoever was complaining about that mysterious "maemo style guide" recently, I have found it`
`07:25.45`	`herwood`	`RST38h: ok thanks`
`07:26.07`	`RST38h`	`maemo.org/forrest-images/pdf/UI_Style_Guide_Summary_2.0.pdf`
`07:26.12`	`RST38h`	`(slightly outdated)`
`07:26.54`	`nomis`	`moin.`
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`07:45.57`	`qwerty12`	`is happy. I figured out using the powers that be CAL how to fix my <unknown> version string in About. I also figured out how to change it to anything I want.`
`07:48.52`	`inz`	`Gone to the dark side you have.`
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`07:49.43`	`qwerty12`	`Hehe, I was getting tired of reflashing to fix it. Plus my nitro stopped working when the CAL was dodgy, I saw it on the framebuffer output.`
`07:49.49`	`*** join/#maemo Vudentz_ (n=dentz@192.100.124.156)`
`07:50.00`	`inz`	`nitro?`
`07:50.18`	`qwerty12`	`That bug reporting tool nokia use internally`
`07:50.29`	`qwerty12`	`When a program crashes, it actually tells me what process crashed`
`07:50.35`	`qwerty12`	`That's it's value to me`
`07:50.40`	`inz`	`ah`
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`07:51.40`	`qwerty12`	`will always keep a copy of the first leak of the diablo repo. They leaked out some useful stuff which I never saw again on that repo.`
`07:55.20`	`qwerty12`	`kimrhh, Are you around? Sorry about yesterday, my internet got cut off. Did you compile that module?`
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`07:59.51`	`kimrhh`	`qwerty12: i am :)`
`08:00.03`	`kimrhh`	`qwerty12: i was hoping you would return`
`08:00.13`	`qwerty12`	`I'm really sorry :/`
`08:00.20`	`qwerty12`	`Did you manage to get that module compiled?`
`08:00.24`	`kimrhh`	`qwerty12: no no :) no problem`
`08:02.23`	`kimrhh`	`well, I think I get the module compiled allright, but when I use modinfo on it, it tells me that it's the wrong arch, and when i try to insmod it on the n810 i get "wrong exec. format" or something like that. But I think I have might tried something stupid. Since I didn't see any .ko file in the dir where I make the module, I just tried to use the .o, but that is wrong isn't it? there should be a .ko somewhere`
`08:02.27`	`hrw`	`qwerty12: OS2010 53.7?`
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`08:03.13`	`qwerty12`	`kimrhh, .o files aren't modules. Which module are you trying to compile?`
`08:03.20`	`qwerty12`	`hrw, if I wanted to ;p`
`08:03.30`	`kimrhh`	`i should mention that I use a dir inside the kernel sources, with a modified Makefile from another place in the kernel source`
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`08:03.38`	`kimrhh`	`qwerty12: thought so`
`08:03.53`	`kimrhh`	`(when I woke up and was more fresh :)`
`08:04.38`	`kimrhh`	`qwerty12: it's a module we use for some research, so our own module. It is working on a Gumstix if you know that device? also an Arm CPU`
`08:04.46`	`*** join/#maemo zwnj (n=behnam@213.207.218.184)`
`08:05.09`	`qwerty12`	`Ah, yes i've heard of gumstix :)`
`08:05.16`	`qwerty12`	`brb, 1 second :)`
`08:07.38`	`qwerty12`	`Ok, with an external module, when I just run make on an external, I get "make: *** /lib/modules/2.6.24-17-generic/build: No such file or directory. Stop."`
`08:07.45`	`qwerty12`	`So here is what I did`
`08:08.57`	`qwerty12`	`Using nautillus as root (outside scratchbox), I went into /scratchbox/users/faheem/targets/CHINOOK_ARMEL/lib/modules`
`08:09.22`	`qwerty12`	`I made a folder called 2.6.24-17-generic but this will differ on your system, check your uname`
`08:11.03`	`qwerty12`	`Then I made a symlink of my Nokia kernel folder (kernel-source-rx-34-2.6.21.0) (it resides in /scratchbox/users/$USER/home/$USER/ for me) and called the symlink build`
`08:11.34`	`qwerty12`	`I then moved my new build symlink into the /scratchbox/users/$USER/targets/CHINOOK_ARMEL/lib/modules/2.6.24-17-generic folder`
`08:12.03`	`qwerty12`	`Then kernel modules compiled just fine with make and a *.ko file would be in my module folder.`
`08:12.28`	`qwerty12`	`I must add that I compiled a Nokia Stock/Generic kernel in my kernel-source-rx-34-2.6.21.0 to make sure`
`08:18.20`	`*** join/#maemo foka (n=foka@124.64.109.125)`
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`08:21.43`	`Jaffa`	`Morning, all`
`08:21.48`	`qwerty12`	`morning`
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`08:25.34`	`*** join/#maemo sbodo_w (n=sbodo@80-121-66-217.adsl.highway.telekom.at)`
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`08:27.11`	`hrw`	`jo Jaffa`
`08:27.20`	`trickie`	`howdy`
`08:28.13`	`hrw`	`who will be tomorrow on linuxtag?`
`08:30.41`	`*** join/#maemo benh (n=benh@147.17.168.202-static.velocitynet.com.au)`
`08:33.17`	`kimrhh`	`qwerty12: kool`
`08:33.23`	`kimrhh`	`qwerty12: cool even :)`
`08:33.28`	`kimrhh`	`qwerty12: and thx`
`08:33.29`	`qwerty12`	`hehe :)`
`08:33.47`	`kimrhh`	`I'll try that tonight when I get home to my dev machine`
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`08:39.48`	`trickie`	`hrw: i will be`
`08:39.55`	`trickie`	`hrw: you?`
`08:40.12`	`hrw`	`just printed tickets`
`08:40.31`	`trickie`	`nice`
`08:40.36`	`hrw`	`I have to think which bag to get`
`08:40.59`	`hrw`	`and to take laptop or not. if I will take it then probably would have to show maemo in qemu...`
`08:41.13`	`kimrhh`	qwerty12: what command did you use to make? "make -C build/ -M=`pwdÂ´ ARCH=arm CROSS_COMPILE=arm-linux-" or just "make" ? because I don't see how you get a Makefile by doing what you told me there :)
`08:41.21`	`trickie`	`hrw: yes please`
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`08:41.35`	`trickie`	`hrw: i have been experiementing with mamona in qemu`
`08:41.45`	`trickie`	`using latest poky .bb's`
`08:41.52`	`qwerty12`	`kimrhh, the external modules I compiled already had a makefile :)`
`08:42.57`	`hrw`	`crap - linuxtag eticket is in german only..`
`08:43.45`	`hrw`	`trickie: qemu on 600MHz x86 is not so fun`
`08:44.46`	`trickie`	`hrw: ha ha i could imagine, sometimes not too fun a core duo 2.33 either :)`
`08:45.09`	`qwerty12`	`hasn't tried on a 2.8GHz core duo with 2gb ram :p`
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`08:45.20`	`hrw`	`trickie: on my athlon64 x2 2.2GHz it was ok.`
`08:45.36`	`hrw`	`trickie: it was even more ok on core2quad 2.4GHz`
`08:46.03`	`trickie`	`yeah its definately usable, i just meant compared to a 600MHz x86 i could imagine`
`08:46.04`	`hrw`	`but this laptop is 1.6GHz working on 600MHz... I suspect cpu fan`
`08:46.18`	`trickie`	`ouch, that must be frustrating`
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`08:50.07`	`hrw`	`time to look at updating qemu again - n810 keyboard is in now`
`08:50.34`	`trickie`	`hrw: yeah i was taking a look at that... trying to get a recent omap kernel working on it`
`08:51.01`	`trickie`	`its the OH guys/gals adding that support to qemu yeah?`
`08:52.52`	`hrw`	`trickie: Andrew (irc:balrog) works for OH and is our qemu hacker`
`08:53.14`	`hrw`	`he added Sharp Zaurus, Openmoko neo1973 to qemu and few more`
`08:53.33`	`trickie`	`hrw: cool! yeah i have been looking at some of his recent qemu patches`
`08:54.05`	`trickie`	`hrw: gonna try get a full emulated sdk for mamona (ala poky style) when i get back from berlin`
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`09:14.57`	`Gatestone`	`Trying this out, just installed Scratchbox, now installing the MAEMO SDK...I have Ubuntu, but it was not clear to me if the installation would be straightforward and similar on a Red Hat machine? (Like my vmware Centos installation..)`
`09:15.50`	`qwerty12`	`Not really, sbox and deb prefer to use apt/dpkg/deb based distributions. But it can be installed on a non-deb distro too.`
`09:15.58`	`qwerty12`	`*sbox and sdk`
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`09:20.01`	`kimrhh`	`qwerty12: hehe ok, could you tell me what they are?`
`09:20.13`	`kimrhh`	`qwerty12: then I could still ideas from them`
`09:20.49`	`qwerty12`	`There was this module: http://www.asix.com.tw/FrootAttach/driver/AX88772_772A_178_LINUX2.6.14_REV105.zip - after making the symlink, this one compiles brilliantly`
`09:22.14`	`qwerty12`	`waits for my kernel with CONFIG_TIMER_STATS to compile :/`
`09:23.57`	`qwerty12`	`now goes and installs strace into initfs`
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`09:24.31`	`hrw`	`hi florian`
`09:25.19`	`flo_lap`	`hi all`
`09:26.57`	`hrw`	`flo_lap: how goes LT?`
`09:27.34`	`flo_lap`	`hrw: not too bad - i guess i can post a photo later :)`
`09:29.11`	`hrw`	`;)`
`09:29.36`	`hrw`	`flo_lap: how many stands between OE and T2?`
`09:30.18`	`flo_lap`	`hrw: two demopoints :)`
`09:30.29`	`hrw`	`enough ;)`
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`09:31.59`	`qwerty12`	`is a tosser. I can't believe I ran halt by accident >.<`
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`09:35.56`	`sp3000`	`...hammerzeit`
`09:35.59`	`sp3000`	`dances`
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`09:39.20`	`*** join/#maemo yerga (n=yerga@87.223.209.227)`
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`09:55.57`	`Gatestone`	`Sorry, did anyone answer me? My connection droppe...`
`09:56.03`	`Gatestone`	`d`
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`09:56.36`	`*** join/#maemo patoh (n=patoh@207.10.233.37)`
`09:57.19`	`trickie`	`Gatestone: its still straight forward but doesn't .debs to install it all`
`09:57.29`	`trickie`	`doesn't use .debs`
`09:57.36`	`trickie`	`obviously`
`09:58.52`	`Gatestone`	`Ok, but my next question: can I run a command line hello.c in MAEMo`
`09:59.07`	`RST38h`	`yes`
`09:59.45`	`trickie`	`Gatestone: yeah, you can compile it in scratchbox for ARM or x86 in scratchbox`
`09:59.55`	`Gatestone`	`So how? Using the same commands as for maemo_hello.c results in the hello.c running in sbox window, not in a terminal on Xephyr?`
`10:00.44`	`Gatestone`	`run-standalone.sh ./maemo_hello runs it in sbox...?`
`10:01.11`	`Gatestone`	`I mean run-standalone.sh ./command_line_hello`
`10:01.20`	`RST38h`	`where do you want to run it?`
`10:01.45`	`Gatestone`	`In a Xephyr terminal Window? Or in a real device Terminal Window?`
`10:03.34`	`trickie`	`Gatestone: in sb, compile it for ARM, copy it to the device, and then in oss-xterm run it`
`10:04.21`	`trickie`	`s/oss-xterm/osso-xterm/`
`10:04.37`	`Gatestone`	`Actually I don't have the device here. How do I run it in a Xephyr window?`
`10:05.14`	`Gatestone`	`Should I install osso-xterm first to the Xephyr environment? How?`
`10:05.41`	`Gatestone`	`Sorry but is my first night with this...`
`10:06.13`	`*** join/#maemo MangoFusion (n=jamesu@host217-43-242-247.range217-43.btcentralplus.com)`
`10:06.35`	`Gatestone`	`My Application manager seems to do nothing? Shows no available packages?`
`10:09.23`	`*** join/#maemo red-zack (n=mk@p5B04495B.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`10:09.31`	`Gatestone`	`I am currentlyu compiling for CHINOOK-X86`
`10:09.59`	`Gatestone`	`How do I get osso-xterm running?`
`10:10.16`	`qwerty12`	`You don't need it, you use the scratchbox to run commands`
`10:11.25`	`Gatestone`	`But I want to see my command line programs running in the Xephyr Window?`
`10:11.38`	`qwerty12`	`hrw, is config partition checksummed?`
`10:11.44`	`Gatestone`	`So pretending it a the real device?`
`10:11.57`	`hrw`	`qwerty12: no idea`
`10:12.04`	`qwerty12`	`ah, ok thanks.`
`10:12.07`	`qwerty12`	`Gatestone, http://andrew.olmsted.ca/maemo/osso-xterm/`
`10:12.18`	`qwerty12`	`It's meant for real device but I've installed in sbox fine`
`10:12.21`	`qwerty12`	`use dpkg`
`10:12.33`	`qwerty12`	`and make sure you apt-get the ttf-bitstream-vera too`
`10:13.47`	`Gatestone`	`So in scratchbox I can use apt-get?`
`10:13.51`	`qwerty12`	`yes`
`10:14.03`	`trickie`	`Gatestone: also the SDK stuff is not an emulator, so things maybe behave differently or not at all`
`10:14.28`	`*** join/#maemo greentux_ (n=lemke@217.237.166.99)`
`10:14.58`	`*** join/#maemo red-zack (n=mk@p5B04495B.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`10:16.43`	`Gatestone`	`Ok, just to test I tried to apt-get install osso-clock, but it gives errors about permissions...`
`10:17.13`	`Gatestone`	`sudo apt-get... says "sudo must be setuid root"?`
`10:17.35`	`Gatestone`	`Should i use sudo with apt-get in Scratchbox or not?`
`10:17.53`	`qwerty12`	`fakeroot`
`10:18.50`	`Gatestone`	`"FAKEROOTKEY not defined..." ? I mean I try "fakeroot apt-get..."`
`10:19.22`	`Gatestone`	`ok, I got it!`
`10:19.26`	`Gatestone`	`wait`
`10:20.35`	`Gatestone`	`So I got osso-clock installed wth apt-get. How do I run it in Xephyr Window?`
`10:20.46`	`*** join/#maemo guardian (n=guardian@mar44-1-87-90-32-28.dsl.club-internet.fr)`
`10:25.08`	`Gatestone`	`BTW, The Control panel on Xephyr opens an empty Window...`
`10:26.41`	`*** join/#maemo kcome (n=kcome@58.213.195.31)`
`10:27.23`	`*** join/#maemo eichi (n=eichi@ip-80-226-0-1.vodafone-net.de)`
`10:30.10`	`Gatestone`	`Is it normal that there is no Control Panel ('/usr/share/applications/hildon-control-panel': No such file or directory in Scratchbox and empty Control Panel window in Xephyr)`
`10:30.49`	`qwerty12`	`Yes. The SDK is not an emulator. I once had a working control panel and I still don't see why I bothered.`
`10:34.43`	`Gatestone`	`So, can you test MAEMO apps on the SDK or not? Do you really need the device?`
`10:35.34`	`Gatestone`	`And moreover: if I just manage to compile things in the Scratchbox, does it mean that basically they should run also on the device?`
`10:37.02`	`trickie`	`Gatestone: you can test and compile for the target device but is not an emulator`
`10:37.07`	`*** join/#maemo qwerty12 (n=as@host-84-9-52-131.dslgb.com)`
`10:38.43`	`Gatestone`	`I mean that like the libraries and dependencies can be tested? So if my programs run in the sbox, they are not using functionality that would not be available on MAEMO devices?`
`10:39.33`	`*** join/#maemo wazd (n=az@195.91.167.225)`
`10:40.25`	`trickie`	`yes libs and deps etc can be tested, and its where you can do your packaging`
`10:40.36`	`trickie`	`i suggest reading through the documents available at maemo.org`
`10:40.40`	`trickie`	`explains alot about ti`
`10:40.46`	`trickie`	`it`
`10:41.00`	`Gatestone`	`Well, I read the tutorials but looks like it is not so easy...`
`10:41.49`	`Gatestone`	`At least not to be grasped on one night with no prior experience in cross-compiled environments..`
`10:42.31`	`trickie`	`yes you are probably right`
`10:42.42`	`trickie`	`its not like developing a pc dekstop app`
`10:43.48`	`hrw`	`trickie: unless you have all libs and wole environment compiled for x86 and run it in xephyr`
`10:44.05`	`hrw`	`teuthen you can forget about scratchbox and do development.`
`10:44.16`	`hrw`	`but I do not know does it is possible with maemo`
`10:44.19`	`trickie`	`yes true`
`10:46.35`	`*** join/#maemo atlas95 (n=cyril@fw-asn2.ornis.com)`
`10:46.36`	`*** join/#maemo Sho_ (i=ehs1@kde/hein)`
`10:47.22`	`*** join/#maemo sbodo_w (n=sbodo@80-121-71-172.adsl.highway.telekom.at)`
`10:49.45`	`RST38h`	`Galestone: Need a shortcut?`
`10:49.59`	`Gatestone`	`Yes?`
`10:50.45`	`RST38h`	`Galestone: 1) Install MaemoSDK+ (based on sb2) 2) Compile stuff as you would on your host system, but add "sb2" in front of gcc and other tools 3) When compiled, copy binary to the tablet using scp and run it using ssh`
`10:51.11`	`RST38h`	`And, probably, 4)Avoid using autoconf and friends`
`10:52.02`	`Gatestone`	`I don't have the device, I was hoping to use CHINOOK-X86 and Xephyr`
`10:54.04`	`hrw`	`autotools and friends are good company`
`10:54.22`	`hrw`	`if maemo does not handle them properly then maemo is broken`
`10:54.54`	`RST38h`	`Gatestone: these are braindamaged, unfortunately`
`10:55.00`	`RST38h`	`hrw: it handles them properly`
`10:55.14`	`RST38h`	`hrw: the main problem is the amount of garbage they create in your project directory`
`10:56.20`	`RST38h`	CFLAGS = `sb2 pkg-config gtk+-2.0 gconf-2.0 libosso hildon-1 hildon-fm-2 --cfl
`10:56.32`	`RST38h`	ags --libs`
`10:56.50`	`RST38h`	`Or something of this kind.`
`10:58.25`	`MangoFusion`	`sometimes i wish the maemo sdk was as good as the iphone sdk ;)`
`11:00.21`	`wazd`	`iPhone SDK suxx`
`11:00.35`	`wazd`	`it's like you're sitting in the sanbox`
`11:00.43`	`wazd`	`with highvoltage walls`
`11:00.50`	`trickie`	`Gatestone: an alternative if you just want to start playing with hildon etc is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded`
`11:01.09`	`Veggen`	`wazd: Apple has never been a proponent of open systems and freedom, no.`
`11:01.12`	`trickie`	`Gatestone: then you can use a dev setup similar to what hrw described above`
`11:01.18`	`wazd`	`It's good nicely designed sandbox`
`11:01.24`	`RST38h`	`Mango: I.e. you wish it came with a toilet plunger?`
`11:01.28`	`wazd`	`with good sand and pretty forms :)`
`11:01.51`	`wazd`	`But with armed guards by the perrimeter`
`11:01.54`	`Veggen`	`wazd: Exactly. That's apple for you. The only reason they're better than MS is that their solutions are technically better, but they`
`11:02.00`	`Veggen`	`'re not more open.`
`11:02.25`	`trickie`	`Gatestone: ie. platform compiled for x86 that runs under a xephyr instance`
`11:02.43`	`wazd`	`But iPhone SDK is still better for UI designing :(`
`11:02.54`	`trickie`	`Gatestone: i think anyway.. as i have not tried it`
`11:04.10`	`*** part/#maemo wolfspirit (n=Wolfspir@cpe-65-27-171-201.cinci.res.rr.com)`
`11:09.10`	`fysa`	`see: webkit`
`11:09.58`	`fysa`	`imagine Microsoft opening any part of IE.`
`11:10.09`	`glass`	`Veggen: apple are the lock-in kings..`
`11:10.30`	`fysa`	`they just know when to pick their battles.`
`11:11.16`	`glass`	`if steve could choose, all osx soft would be sold on itunes`
`11:11.34`	`*** join/#maemo Zic (n=Zic@ubuntu/member/zic)`
`11:11.37`	`MangoFusion`	`i don't really have much of an issue with the sandboxing. it's not as if i'd want to jump out and read a load of files or anything`
`11:13.11`	`*** join/#maemo playya__ (n=playya@p57B2A09E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`11:16.44`	`RST38h`	`fysa: Microsoft opened part of IE`
`11:17.20`	`RST38h`	`Mango: Do you have an issue with having to pay $100 to Jobs just to distribute your program?`
`11:18.01`	`RST38h`	`Maybe you happen to have an issue with the fact that Apple may refuse distributing your program at any moment, telling you to go fuck yourself?`
`11:18.18`	`MangoFusion`	`not if i am making money out of it ;)`
`11:18.28`	`RST38h`	`Ok.`
`11:18.43`	`RST38h`	`Let us say you are making money out of it but then Apple says "go fuck yourself"`
`11:18.52`	`RST38h`	`Will this be satisfactory for you?`
`11:19.44`	`MangoFusion`	`that would be quite unfortunate. i'd hope that they were quite lenient as to what they find acceptable to distribute`
`11:19.49`	`*** join/#maemo teenel (n=chatzill@125.33.190.185)`
`11:19.55`	`RST38h`	`They will not be`
`11:20.22`	`MangoFusion`	`but hey - there are plenty of other platforms to target`
`11:20.34`	`RST38h`	`For example, Sun can't port its Java to iPhone because Apple SDK licensing terms explicitely prohibit virtual machine development`
`11:20.37`	`MangoFusion`	`including just the browser`
`11:21.04`	`glass`	`RST38h: i don't have an issue with paying to apple or 30% of revenue share going to them, thats not actually too bad distributors share nowadays..`
`11:21.10`	`RST38h`	`Yea, you can target a different platform. But then, what does Apple SDK have to do with it?`
`11:21.17`	`glass`	`RST38h: the issue is as you say is them being the one to choose what you can do or not`
`11:21.26`	`*** join/#maemo luck^ (n=Luciano@200.184.118.132)`
`11:21.28`	`RST38h`	`glass: I pay ~11% to my CC processor`
`11:21.46`	`glass`	`RST38h: talking about mobile soft distribution in general`
`11:21.57`	`RST38h`	`30% is a lot if all they do is placing your program onto some ftp-like server`
`11:22.00`	`glass`	`RST38h: sms etc, or cc where there are multiple hands in between`
`11:22.13`	`MangoFusion`	`one can see why that is prohibited as they would be loosing money from licensing as developers could just skip them when distributing`
`11:22.17`	`RST38h`	`glass: you don'tneed most of this crap`
`11:22.21`	`glass`	`RST38h: handling the sms stuff with the 300+ operators`
`11:22.29`	`RST38h`	`Why do you need sms stuff?`
`11:23.04`	`glass`	`RST38h: for mobile convinient payments`
`11:23.11`	`RST38h`	`Mango: Well, they would be losing money anyway, after all, they COULD WRITE ï¤ALL THES PROGRAMTHEMSELVES! :)`
`11:23.21`	`glass`	`RST38h: handango etc take 30% with cc too`
`11:23.32`	`RST38h`	`glass: That is why I broke dist deal with Handango`
`11:23.50`	`RST38h`	`glass: They don't sell a shit, charge 30%, and behave like if they are some kind of AT&T`
`11:24.01`	`MangoFusion`	`in any case, will be interesting to see how the app store pans out`
`11:24.08`	`glass`	`RST38h: do they even still have proper sms payments?`
`11:24.17`	`RST38h`	`glass: No idea`
`11:24.27`	`MangoFusion`	`or even if it will be replicated on other platforms (e.g. maemo)`
`11:24.47`	`glass`	`RST38h: anyways, sms, wap etc payments are needed for selling the high volume entertainment shit`
`11:24.59`	`glass`	`RST38h: doesn't matter that much for more sophisticated apps`
`11:25.12`	`RST38h`	`WAP - no longer being used`
`11:25.16`	`RST38h`	`SMS - well, may be`
`11:25.24`	`glass`	`RST38h: but most game publishers etc don't see that much of the revenue`
`11:25.25`	`RST38h`	`for ringtones :)`
`11:25.47`	`glass`	`RST38h: for registering stuff etc sms is used too`
`11:25.48`	`glass`	`and games`
`11:26.04`	`RST38h`	`glass: actually, I can run SMS distribution out of my house`
`11:26.12`	`*** join/#maemo lmoura (n=lmoura@200.184.118.132)`
`11:26.23`	`RST38h`	`Even wrote the software for that`
`11:26.33`	`glass`	`RST38h: and make the deals with every operator on the planet yourself? true you can cover a lot of them with something like ericcson ipx`
`11:26.40`	`glass`	`it's not the soft thats the problem`
`11:26.44`	`glass`	`but the deals..`
`11:26.45`	`RST38h`	`It is kind of pointless though`
`11:26.56`	`RST38h`	`glass: I only need a phone to send SMS messages`
`11:27.10`	`glass`	`RST38h: to receive payments with it`
`11:27.12`	`RST38h`	`Can't do payments easily`
`11:27.18`	`RST38h`	`but distribution - no problem`
`11:27.32`	`glass`	`yes thats not a problem`
`11:27.56`	`glass`	`(anyways, i work in a company involved in this)`
`11:27.58`	`*** join/#maemo ssvb (n=ssvb___@viktor.cosmicparrot.net)`
`11:28.17`	`*** join/#maemo calvaris (n=calvaris@fanzine.igalia.com)`
`11:32.16`	`*** join/#maemo mgedmin810 (n=mg@217.237.166.99)`
`11:33.11`	`mgedmin810`	`anyone at linuxtag?`
`11:33.18`	`*** join/#maemo qwerty12_N800 (n=faheem@host-84-9-52-131.dslgb.com)`
`11:34.31`	`hrw`	`goes tomorrow`
`11:34.49`	`hrw`	`have to wake ~6 inthe morning`
`11:36.22`	`*** join/#maemo kcome (n=kcome@58.213.216.49)`
`11:36.43`	`*** join/#maemo atlas95 (n=cyril@fw-asn2.ornis.com)`
`11:39.53`	`KotCzarny`	`http://www.techamok.com/?pid=4596`
`11:39.54`	`KotCzarny`	`lol`
`11:41.58`	`qwerty12_N800`	`is pissed off that messenger service is disappeared in my xp :/`
`11:42.56`	`hrw`	`KotCzarny: sure`
`11:43.18`	`hrw`	`KotCzarny: people mostly think about such acts as music/video/software piracy`
`11:43.49`	`hrw`	`I wonder does people going to US would have to take all NDA papers for NDA files on their laptops to prove that they are worth reading them`
`11:43.52`	`KotCzarny`	`i like 'right to destruct' part`
`11:44.06`	`KotCzarny`	`hrw, it's not us, it's canada+eu+jp`
`11:44.59`	`qwerty12_N800`	`eu? shit.`
`11:45.21`	`*** join/#maemo dreamerns (n=dreamern@whiterabbit.rz.uni-mannheim.de)`
`11:45.22`	`glass`	`crap`
`11:46.24`	`hrw`	`KotCzarny: first it has to be signed by eu countries`
`11:46.49`	`KotCzarny`	`yeah`
`11:46.54`	`KotCzarny`	`but i will be`
`11:46.58`	`KotCzarny`	`sooner or later`
`11:47.08`	`KotCzarny`	`be it 5 or 25 years`
`11:47.31`	`*** join/#maemo setanta (n=setanta@200.184.118.132)`
`11:48.57`	`hrw`	`time to invest into high bandwidth lines to china or africa`
`11:49.10`	`KotCzarny`	`bad idead`
`11:49.12`	`KotCzarny`	`idea`
`11:49.22`	`KotCzarny`	`china could kill you for 'piracy'`
`11:49.30`	`KotCzarny`	`and africa.. heh`
`11:49.42`	`RST38h`	`hrw: Here is something you have to know`
`11:49.44`	`KotCzarny`	`it's being destroyed`
`11:50.26`	`RST38h`	`hrw: Whether EU signs this stuff or not, US court has decided that US customs have a right to seach your whole HD and other storage, same as your physical belongings`
`11:50.50`	`RST38h`	`hrw: And they don't care if you carry any industrial secrets, etc.`
`11:51.07`	`hrw`	`RST38h: USA is country on a list of countries which I do not plan to visit`
`11:51.14`	`hrw`	`first place on a list`
`11:51.20`	`RST38h`	`If you have encrypted stuff, they will ask you for a key and have a right to keep your hardware for an undefined period of time`
`11:51.38`	`RST38h`	`Well, just in case you have to go there`
`11:51.50`	`hrw`	`RST38h: and if I would have to then I would take my laptop without any harddrive/pendrive etc and will buy harddisk locally + debian install cd`
`11:51.52`	`RST38h`	`Make sure you do not carry any sensitive stuff on your HD :)`
`11:52.28`	`RST38h`	`hrw: THAT will surely make them think you are planning something! =)`
`11:52.29`	`KotCzarny`	`or have a backup`
`11:52.31`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`11:52.32`	`hrw`	`the problem is that such hdd would have to stay iin us to not give me any problems on passing border next time`
`11:53.14`	`qwerty12_N800`	`hrw, I like that idea :>`
`11:53.16`	`*** join/#maemo disq (n=hede@87.118.100.103)`
`11:53.33`	`hrw`	`qwerty12_N800: it came to my mind when I first time read about problem`
`11:54.13`	`hrw`	`I even have crap enough phone to not have anything illegal to put on it`
`11:54.41`	`hrw`	`nokia 6230i or something - never used it for calling`
`11:55.02`	`hrw`	`no storage for files (as no mmc card inside slot)`
`11:55.08`	`RST38h`	`you can juststore stuff online and access it with scp`
`11:55.22`	`KotCzarny`	`sshfs`
`11:55.23`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`11:55.34`	`hrw`	`sshfs does not handle ports other then 22 ;(`
`11:55.35`	`RST38h`	`They still do not have right to force this information out of you while you are inside the country`
`11:55.42`	`KotCzarny`	`hrw no?`
`11:55.45`	`KotCzarny`	`-p port`
`11:55.45`	`RST38h`	`You have a right not to incriminate yourself`
`11:55.46`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`11:55.57`	`hrw`	`KotCzarny: hm. last time when I checked I missed it`
`11:56.06`	`hrw`	`my home machine is not on 22`
`11:56.10`	`KotCzarny`	`or -o port=PORT`
`11:56.19`	`KotCzarny`	`try sshfs -h`
`11:56.32`	`hrw`	`40 minutes to have a copy of maemo image for qemu..`
`11:56.42`	`hrw`	`and 2h to end qemu compilation ;(`
`11:57.41`	`qwerty12_N800`	`what machine? took me 1/2 hour :(`
`11:57.51`	`qwerty12_N800`	`*half-hour`
`11:57.57`	`hrw`	`pentium-M 600MHz with 5400rpm disk`
`11:58.04`	`qwerty12_N800`	`eek`
`11:58.24`	`KotCzarny`	`hrw, just bump speed temporarily`
`11:58.24`	`patoh`	`wouldn't suck much power but :D`
`11:58.25`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`11:58.52`	`teenel`	`I used mplayer -ac mad to play video but there's no sound in my n800, the audio is code by lame. I also tried ffmp3 and dspmp3, no help`
`11:59.07`	`hrw`	`KotCzarny: bumping to 1.6GHz switch back to 600 in less then 1s`
`11:59.23`	`KotCzarny`	`hrw, switch to userspace cpufreq?`
`12:00.02`	`hrw`	`KotCzarny: http://blog.haerwu.biz/2008/05/27/stuck-at-600mhz/`
`12:00.44`	`ssvb`	`teenel: do you have a log from mplayer?`
`12:00.51`	`hrw`	`and when I think that 5-6 years ago my desktop was even slower... duron/600 with 128MB ram`
`12:01.16`	`KotCzarny`	`hrw, i remember my thinkpad did something similiar when switching power options in bios`
`12:01.31`	`KotCzarny`	`ie. locking cpu to 600-1000 (instead of 600-1600)`
`12:01.35`	`hrw`	`KotCzarny: in bios it is set to fastest possible`
`12:01.43`	`teenel`	`ssvb:it said mad cann't codec the audio format`
`12:01.47`	`KotCzarny`	`and lowering other things too`
`12:01.59`	`KotCzarny`	`try another kernel version?`
`12:02.20`	`teenel`	`ssvb: but I can use mad to decode the audio format in my PC`
`12:02.30`	`hrw`	`KotCzarny: 2.6.24-rc7 2.6.25-rc1 2.6.26-rc4 all have same. it ws working fine before`
`12:03.12`	`KotCzarny`	`try speedstep-centrino instead of acpi-cpufreq ?`
`12:04.29`	`ssvb`	`teenel: run mplayer with -v option and post this log somewhere (probably even to garage mplayer tracker)`
`12:04.29`	`hrw`	`speedstep-centrino fails to load`
`12:04.45`	`hrw`	`KotCzarny: it is ICH4 with 855GM. 3.5 years old`
`12:04.50`	`KotCzarny`	`i know`
`12:04.54`	`KotCzarny`	`mine too`
`12:04.55`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`12:05.20`	`KotCzarny`	`well, 855PM`
`12:05.30`	`teenel`	`ssvb: thank you`
`12:05.33`	`KotCzarny`	`but ich4 too`
`12:05.49`	`KotCzarny`	`hrw: tried looking for another acpi versions?`
`12:05.56`	`hrw`	`855GM+ICH4-M to be exact`
`12:06.08`	`hrw`	`KotCzarny: other dsdt you mean?`
`12:06.13`	`KotCzarny`	`yes`
`12:07.31`	`hrw`	`did not looked for`
`12:07.34`	`KotCzarny`	`http://acpi.sourceforge.net/dsdt/view.php?id=391`
`12:07.47`	`hrw`	`also have to find a moment to update bios back to last ver`
`12:08.01`	`KotCzarny`	`you should try looking into it`
`12:09.42`	`hrw`	`id=760 is my laptop`
`12:09.44`	`hrw`	`will test`
`12:11.04`	`KotCzarny`	`but cpufreq detects all speeds`
`12:11.18`	`hrw`	`sure - just stuck at 600-600`
`12:11.25`	`KotCzarny`	`what happens on userspace ?`
`12:11.45`	`hrw`	`same`
`12:12.28`	`hrw`	`nevermind which governor - 600-600 is stuck`
`12:13.00`	`*** join/#maemo TPC (n=andreas@pdpc/supporter/student/TPC)`
`12:13.10`	`hrw`	`next time I will take linux cd to test does laptop export battery/ac/fan/thermal etc before buy`
`12:13.14`	`KotCzarny`	`hrm`
`12:13.32`	`KotCzarny`	`well, ibm x3[0-2] doesn't have a problem`
`12:13.45`	`KotCzarny`	`with x31 and x32 you can even undervolt it`
`12:13.56`	`KotCzarny`	`(only way to reach 46C == fan off)`
`12:15.49`	`*** join/#maemo ijon_ (n=ijon@dhcp218-147.yandex.ru)`
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`12:18.46`	`*** join/#maemo atlas95 (n=cyril@xvm-14-34.ghst.net)`
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`12:31.44`	`hrw`	`KotCzarny: this laptop at 1.6GHz with heavy load was getting 80°C and over it`
`12:34.13`	`*** topic/#maemo by GAN800 -> development platform for Nokia Internet Tablets \| http://maemo.org \| http://freedesktop.org/Software/sbox2/Maemo \| http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog \| http://www.gronmayer.com/it \| http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook`
`12:36.02`	`*** join/#maemo vik_ (n=vik@jmc6r9wex0.adsl.datanet.hu)`
`12:36.56`	`Gatestone`	`How do I run ARM binaries in scratchbox? I compiled hello_world.c and running it says "SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD not set"`
`12:37.02`	`Gatestone`	`What should I set there?`
`12:38.30`	`Gatestone`	`Shoudl I use qemu....something to run the ARM binary?`
`12:38.45`	`*** join/#maemo flo_lap (n=fuchs@217.237.166.82)`
`12:39.18`	`KotCzarny`	`hrw: mine did that with 1.8ghz and poor ventilation`
`12:39.20`	`johnx`	`it should be set by default if your target is armel`
`12:39.42`	`KotCzarny`	`and without undervolting`
`12:39.43`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`12:40.03`	`johnx`	`gah...neither of you have it as bad as my poor P4 laptop O_o`
`12:40.11`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`12:40.13`	`KotCzarny`	`yeah`
`12:40.21`	`KotCzarny`	`pentium-m are nice`
`12:40.30`	`johnx`	`95f is not uncommon for me to see`
`12:40.39`	`johnx`	`errr...95c rather :/`
`12:40.49`	`KotCzarny`	`95f would be good`
`12:40.51`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
`12:40.54`	`johnx`	`yeah really`
`12:41.01`	`johnx`	`my A64 desktop is close to that :D`
`12:41.10`	`hrw`	`johnx: p4 suxx always`
`12:41.17`	`*** join/#maemo vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim)`
`12:41.35`	`GAN800`	`fries eggs on johnx's laptop.`
`12:41.38`	`Gatestone`	`If I look up target info, it sasy CPU transparency "none". So what should I do to get qemu-arm or something in place?`
`12:41.43`	`johnx`	`hrw, no, really? :P`
`12:43.07`	`johnx`	`I got that laptop for free because the last guy who had it hated it so much he never used it anymore`
`12:44.02`	`hrw`	`;))`
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`12:46.19`	`Gatestone`	`ok, I did not do sbox_ctl start as root....now it works`
`12:46.31`	`Gatestone`	`I can emulate ARM`
`12:47.29`	`*** join/#maemo calvaris (n=calvaris@fanzine.igalia.com)`
`12:49.02`	`KotCzarny`	`heh, freeeestuuuuffff`
`12:49.03`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`12:49.12`	`KotCzarny`	`got toshiba magnia sg20 for free`
`12:49.20`	`KotCzarny`	`also because of hateness`
`12:51.10`	`johnx`	`yeah...using my n800 is almost infinitely preferable to using that P4 toshiba`
`12:51.26`	`johnx`	`it weighs 9 freakin' pounds!`
`12:51.42`	`hrw`	`but still can be used as file/printer server at home`
`12:51.48`	`*** join/#maemo cmarcelo (n=cmarcelo@200.184.118.132)`
`12:52.00`	`johnx`	`hrw, if I could trust it`
`12:52.18`	`johnx`	`I wouldn't let any files I care about anywhere near it`
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`13:52.00`	`andre___`	`hmm. looks i can attend LinuxTag too. nice.`
`13:56.17`	`*** join/#maemo opendeep (n=pradeep@61.16.248.242)`
`14:04.08`	`*** join/#maemo etrunko (n=edulima@200.184.118.132)`
`14:07.36`	`nomis`	`will leave for berlin in about half an hour.`
`14:07.46`	`*** join/#maemo avs (n=avs@a88-113-36-102.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`14:07.58`	`*** part/#maemo avs (n=avs@a88-113-36-102.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`14:11.58`	`*** join/#maemo atlas95 (n=cyril@fw-asn2.ornis.com)`
`14:15.41`	`*** join/#maemo qwerty12_N800 (n=faheem@host-84-9-52-131.dslgb.com)`
`14:15.52`	`*** join/#maemo florian_ (n=fuchs@217.237.166.82)`
`14:17.13`	`*** join/#maemo andrunko (n=andrunko@200.184.118.132)`
`14:18.16`	`GAN8001`	`OK, there's my UI spec rant for the day. . . . <_<`
`14:24.10`	`*** join/#maemo guaka (n=guaka@78-27-41-41.dsl.alice.nl)`
`14:24.55`	`Jaffa`	`GAN8001: And a marvellous rant it is. I especially like the mythical rabbit`
`14:25.19`	`GAN8001`	`"Don't accept"`
`14:25.23`	`GAN8001`	`Who is he kidding? <_<`
`14:25.39`	`Jaffa`	`Indeed, somewhat scoff worthy.`
`14:26.57`	`johnx`	`I like the idea of sitting in front of my computer "not accepting" your answers`
`14:27.04`	`johnx`	`s/your/their/`
`14:27.06`	`GAN8001`	`Getting into a "fix this" "I can't" "fix it anyway" "I can't" with an engineer isn't my idea of productive bug work.`
`14:27.24`	`johnx`	`...kind of like giving Nokia the silent treatment :D`
`14:27.35`	`*** join/#maemo calvaris (n=calvaris@cm216016.red83-165.mundo-r.com)`
`14:27.51`	`GAN8001`	`Hehe, johnx. <whiney three-year-old>NO! DO IT!</whiney three-year-old>`
`14:28.16`	`*** join/#maemo sergio__ (n=sergio@cm216016.red83-165.mundo-r.com)`
`14:28.24`	`johnx`	`Nokia, until you fix bug #3161 I won't talk to you. :P`
`14:29.01`	`*** join/#maemo msanchez (n=Mario@cm216016.red83-165.mundo-r.com)`
`14:29.09`	`johnx`	`also, has anyone else seen high memory usage and eventual system slowdown involving browersd on diablo?`
`14:29.27`	`johnx`	`*browserd`
`14:29.28`	`GAN8001`	`Not particularly, but I haven't paid much attention.`
`14:29.30`	`\|\|cw`	`simply "i can't" isn't an acceptable answer... I hope you had a good reason behind it, like "i can't without rewriting 90% of the the backend"`
`14:29.51`	`*** join/#maemo _berto_ (n=berto@217.237.166.99)`
`14:29.57`	`GAN8001`	`\|\|cw, the "I can't" answer is follow by "because the UI spec says . . ."`
`14:30.04`	`qwerty12_N800`	`johnx, me.`
`14:30.28`	`\|\|cw`	`refile the bug as a UI spec problem`
`14:30.37`	`qwerty12_N800`	`shit slows down the rest of the n800. browser is a step back from chinook''s.`
`14:30.45`	`johnx`	`qwerty12_N800, can you reproduce it consistently?`
`14:30.59`	`GAN8001`	`\|\|cw, that wasn't possible until two days ago.`
`14:31.00`	`johnx`	`otherwise I'll bash on it tonight and see if I can...`
`14:31.24`	`qwerty12_N800`	`just go on a heavy site and open another window :/`
`14:31.42`	`johnx`	`ah...I can get it with one window and only browser open :/`
`14:32.40`	`*** join/#maemo juergbi (n=juerg@80-219-17-53.dclient.hispeed.ch)`
`14:32.44`	`fysa`	`check your about:config settings`
`14:32.53`	`qwerty12_N800`	`johnx, same here but it's consistant like that :/`
`14:33.05`	`GAN8001`	`Did we decide that bugzilla was a good place to request sources?`
`14:33.11`	`johnx`	`fysa, my only local modifcations are minimum font size bumps`
`14:33.18`	`qwerty12_N800`	`no mods here`
`14:33.28`	`*** join/#maemo WorkingOnWise (n=WorkingO@97-83-156-31.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com)`
`14:33.42`	`fysa`	`maybe the defaults are bad.`
`14:33.55`	`qwerty12_N800`	`it's browserd that is bad`
`14:34.17`	`fysa`	`are you using debian/xfce daily, johnx?`
`14:34.23`	`johnx`	`fysa, nope.`
`14:34.29`	`johnx`	`definitely not :)`
`14:34.45`	`WorkingOnWise`	`good morning all`
`14:34.59`	`johnx`	`I prefer hildon/matchbox . I did the xfce release for people who seemed interested in that sort of thing`
`14:35.06`	`WorkingOnWise`	`johnx: what stops you from using it daily?`
`14:35.14`	`qwerty12_N800`	`anyone know anything else that is useless in initfs? need to shove a strace binary in there.`
`14:35.39`	`johnx`	`eh...usability, polish, available apps, power management,`
`14:36.11`	`WorkingOnWise`	`wow....thats a show stopper list ... power management especially`
`14:36.19`	`fysa`	`hildon/matchbox on debian, or maemo? :)`
`14:36.27`	`GAN8001`	`qwerty12_N800, bme, you should delete that. :P`
`14:36.39`	`qwerty12_N800`	`Nah! :p`
`14:36.45`	`WorkingOnWise`	`guess I shouldnt waste my time looking there for my maemo alternative huh?`
`14:36.45`	`fysa`	`still longing for webkit`
`14:37.05`	`GAN8001`	`Somebody needs to put together a non-shit frontend for the one that's in Extras, fysa.`
`14:37.07`	`johnx`	`fysa, either`
`14:37.27`	`WorkingOnWise`	`no disresoect to you johnx.. thad didnt come out right at all`
`14:37.34`	`johnx`	`WorkingOnWise, it's worth a try, but if you want a ready to go solution it's not ready yet`
`14:37.36`	`WorkingOnWise`	`disrespect either`
`14:38.26`	`johnx`	`that's ok. I didn't perceive it as disrespect`
`14:38.38`	`johnx`	`I'll be the first to admit it's not ready for prime-time yet`
`14:38.50`	`WorkingOnWise`	`johnx: do you know much about the ubuntu ports?`
`14:39.16`	`johnx`	`WorkingOnWise, that it's 99% Debian, except without official support from the package maintainers?`
`14:39.27`	`johnx`	`;) or did you mean something else?`
`14:39.35`	`*** join/#maemo ynyr_ (n=ynyr@host86-146-66-212.range86-146.btcentralplus.com)`
`14:40.22`	`GAN8001`	`OK, I just went for it.`
`14:40.24`	`GAN8001`	`https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3195`
`14:40.26`	`WorkingOnWise`	`i read a blurb saying some conical devs were porting fiesty and gutsy to the N8x0 series.`
`14:40.39`	`GAN8001`	`I'd really like to see this get somewhere: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=148283`
`14:40.45`	`WorkingOnWise`	`can-whatever its spelled`
`14:41.16`	`johnx`	`WorkingOnWise, I heard it was actually INDT guys who started it. but feisty/gutsy are old now. Debian is up-to-date`
`14:42.30`	`johnx`	`I'm waiting for someone to give a good answer why they would choose ubuntu over debian on embedded ARM...`
`14:42.44`	`fysa`	`the nvidia ARM releases look promising.`
`14:42.47`	`WorkingOnWise`	`that was kind of my thought. and why port 2 versions? exciting to see another option, but wondering if it is a "because we can" kind of project....`
`14:42.54`	`qwerty12_N800`	`<PROTECTED>`
`14:43.05`	`johnx`	`<PROTECTED>`
`14:43.06`	`qwerty12_N800`	`because i want to! :p`
`14:43.10`	`WorkingOnWise`	`lol`
`14:43.22`	`johnx`	`WorkingOnWise, I get that feeling too. :/`
`14:43.23`	`*** join/#maemo boz (n=boz@235.sse.fi)`
`14:43.30`	`GAN8001`	`Ha`
`14:43.32`	`qwerty12_N800`	`sorry, i pressed tab and then enter by accident :/`
`14:43.50`	`WorkingOnWise`	`it is looking like penguinbaits KDE is the most reasonable alternative right now.`
`14:43.50`	`GAN8001`	`Today should be "Do Whatever I Want To" day`
`14:44.16`	`WorkingOnWise`	`it is GAN8001 isnt it?`
`14:45.05`	`*** join/#maemo pupnik810 (n=pupnik@217.237.166.99)`
`14:45.20`	`GAN8008`	`Because I want to.`
`14:45.23`	`WorkingOnWise`	`is there a reasonable way to develop for maemo on Windows with Visual Studio?`
`14:45.26`	`pupnik810`	`lcuk here?`
`14:46.32`	`*** join/#maemo dougt (n=dougt@c-67-180-89-151.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`14:47.27`	`Navi`	`WorkingOnWise, :\|`
`14:47.28`	`WorkingOnWise`	`I ask because it is what I have, and I just cant cut to Linux till I get a more capable laptop.`
`14:47.45`	`Navi`	`:\|`
`14:47.50`	`GAN8008`	`Ha`
`14:48.02`	`\|\|cw`	`WorkingOnWise: and then what tools would you use on linux?`
`14:48.07`	`qwerty12_N800`	`er, linux runs better on crap hardware than windows`
`14:48.13`	`Navi`	`^^^`
`14:48.34`	`WorkingOnWise`	`there ae a few apps I need dailr that only run in windows, so it means running xp or vista virtualixed pretty much all the time`
`14:48.46`	`GAN8008`	`Navi and qwerty12_N800 would know better than anybody with their crap hardware. :P`
`14:49.03`	`Navi`	`\o/`
`14:49.05`	`WorkingOnWise`	`qwerty12_N800: it does, till you run a windows vm and break linux's knees with it :)`
`14:49.16`	`qwerty12_N800`	`GAN8008, Says the person with a mac :p`
`14:49.28`	`GAN8008`	`Ooooh BUUUUUURN`
`14:49.33`	`qwerty12_N800`	`I feel for navi`
`14:49.39`	`qwerty12_N800`	`though :p`
`14:49.45`	`qwerty12_N800`	`256mb ram...`
`14:50.00`	`Navi`	`\o/`
`14:50.03`	`GAN8008`	`He brought it on himself.`
`14:50.05`	`WorkingOnWise`	`\|\|cw: I would imagine eclipse or KDevelop`
`14:50.07`	`Navi`	`No need to feel for me`
`14:50.08`	`lopz`	`hi`
`14:50.14`	`johnx`	`eh...that's 4 times as much as one of my build boxes...`
`14:50.23`	`\|\|cw`	`there' a win32 version of eclipse isn't there?`
`14:50.31`	`\|\|cw`	`and you could always use vmware`
`14:50.31`	`Navi`	`I don't use more than 20MB without X`
`14:50.33`	`qwerty12_N800`	`it's java`
`14:50.42`	`*** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=salveti@200.184.118.132)`
`14:51.06`	`WorkingOnWise`	`\|\|cw: never bothered to look to be honest. I think the biger thing would be scratchbox wouldnt it?`
`14:51.33`	`WorkingOnWise`	`in a Windows enviroment?`
`14:52.06`	`*** join/#maemo calvaris_ (n=calvaris@fanzine.igalia.com)`
`14:52.08`	`*** join/#maemo Kt_ (n=Kirsat@96.243.196.167)`
`14:52.12`	`\|\|cw`	`I don't see the scratchbox vmware image using all that much ram`
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`14:53.31`	`*** join/#maemo msanchez (n=Mario@fanzine.igalia.com)`
`14:53.40`	`WorkingOnWise`	`I'm missing something here I think. \|\|cw are you saying I could run scratchbox via vmware image on Windows?`
`14:53.53`	`WorkingOnWise`	`or did I totally miss that flight?`
`14:53.53`	`\|\|cw`	`yes, there's a premade one`
`14:54.47`	`WorkingOnWise`	`ahhh...now that simplifies things.`
`14:56.15`	`\|\|cw`	`I think this is the official page http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/`
`14:56.22`	`WorkingOnWise`	`so barring any lack of competence on my part, I could use VS or Eclipse in Windows to develop for Maemo, using the vmware image to run the build environment. Right?`
`14:56.23`	`*** join/#maemo TimRiker (n=timr@70-1-42-40.area1.spcsdns.net)`
`14:56.47`	`johnx`	`yes...or just use eclipse inside the vmware image`
`14:56.49`	`\|\|cw`	`the vmware image include ecplise too`
`14:57.22`	`WorkingOnWise`	`oh...that was slick of whoever did that!`
`14:57.35`	`johnx`	`yup...it's a whole system ready to go`
`14:57.55`	`*** join/#maemo qwerty12 (n=faheem@host-84-9-52-131.dslgb.com)`
`14:58.06`	`WorkingOnWise`	`so I have this shiney new Visual Studio 2008 gifted by Microsoft and still no need for it!`
`14:58.37`	`johnx`	`yup!`
`14:58.37`	`WorkingOnWise`	`damn Open Source!`
`14:58.37`	`johnx`	`woo!`
`14:58.37`	`WorkingOnWise`	`lol`
`14:58.37`	`*** join/#maemo eton (n=eton@ppp-58-8-3-181.revip2.asianet.co.th)`
`14:58.37`	`johnx`	`give it as a christmas present maybe?`
`14:58.38`	`qwerty12`	`I have 2003 somewhere gifted by RS...`
`14:58.41`	`johnx`	`your grandpa might like it`
`14:59.02`	`WorkingOnWise`	`went to the launch or Win Serv 2008 2 weeks ago. Git that and Vista Ultimate`
`14:59.06`	`qwerty12`	`He could make a reminder program to clean the false teeth...`
`14:59.08`	`qwerty12`	`:p`
`14:59.18`	`WorkingOnWise`	`and a nifty soft side lunch bag`
`14:59.22`	`WorkingOnWise`	`lol`
`14:59.37`	`*** join/#maemo etrunko_lap (n=edulima@200.184.118.132)`
`15:00.08`	`WorkingOnWise`	`see, at thos prices, I dont mind crap software so much.`
`15:00.28`	`WorkingOnWise`	`I'm off to play with maemo. Thanks guys`
`15:00.36`	`johnx`	`sure, have fun :D`
`15:01.55`	`*** join/#maemo wazd (n=az@195.91.167.225)`
`15:04.30`	`*** join/#maemo nomeata (i=nobody@nomeata.de)`
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`15:09.54`	`nomeata`	`hi. iâm trying to use maemo-mapper on os2007 hacker edition (n770) with a bluetooth gps dongle. maemo-mapper runs fine, displays maps and finds the device when I scan for it. But when I try to connect, it tries for a while and then displays an error "GPSD not found". do I need to have GPSD running even for a bluetooth dongle?`
`15:10.50`	`qwerty12`	`yes`
`15:12.12`	`nomeata`	`should maemo-mapper start it by itself, or can I help somehow?`
`15:12.22`	`trickie`	`is off to linuxtag! ciao!`
`15:12.47`	`Navi`	`woo`
`15:12.51`	`*** join/#maemo TPC (n=andreas@pdpc/supporter/student/TPC)`
`15:12.57`	`qwerty12`	`I'm not actually sure how it works on os2007. (Never used it :/). On OS2008, I have GPS control panel.`
`15:13.47`	`nomeata`	`hmm. when I try to start rfcomm and gpsd manually from the command line, it does not work ("illegal instruction")`
`15:14.25`	`hrw`	`nomeata: run prefs in maemo-mapper and add gps as BT device`
`15:15.17`	`nomeata`	`hrw: I tried that, it finds the device, but when I activate it it gives me the GPSD error`
`15:17.44`	`nomeata`	`hrw: if I select bluetooth there, does this mean that maemo-mapper (tries to) set up gpsd itself, or that it talks to the dongle without gpsd?`
`15:19.05`	`hrw`	`probably directly`
`15:19.15`	`hrw`	`never used with bt gps`
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`15:20.50`	`*** join/#maemo Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun)`
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`15:24.03`	`*** join/#maemo z72ka (n=hermanj@r5af152.net.upc.cz)`
`15:25.33`	`*** join/#maemo konttori (n=konttori@a88-113-140-60.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`15:30.54`	`*** join/#maemo skibur (n=skibur@adsl-66-142-66-43.dsl.snantx.swbell.net)`
`15:36.33`	`*** join/#maemo GeneralAntilles_ (n=GAN8001@2416422hfc34.tampabay.res.rr.com)`
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`15:37.30`	`hrw`	`I hope that someone at maemo part of LT will have laptop - mine is too slow to show n800 qemu maemo`
`15:38.27`	`*** join/#maemo jpuderer (n=jpuderer@128.224.252.2)`
`15:38.29`	`qwerty12`	`Who else has a config partition working with it?`
`15:38.37`	`qwerty12`	`(OS2008 that is, not poky)`
`15:39.06`	`hrw`	`I will take qemu binaries + maemo image with me`
`15:39.27`	`*** join/#maemo florian_ (n=fuchs@217.237.166.82)`
`15:39.28`	`hrw`	`will only need machine with working usb port to show it (linux 32bit/x86 capable)`
`15:39.40`	`hrw`	`debian 'sid' or ubuntu 7.10+`
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`15:41.27`	`hrw`	`on my laptop boot of it would take >10 minutes`
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`15:44.29`	`*** part/#maemo ac7s1 (n=ac7ss@c-24-17-138-99.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)`
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`15:48.23`	`GAN8001`	`hrw, it'd be really sad if there weren't a single usable laptop around at a conference like LinuxTag. :D`
`15:48.59`	`hrw`	`;)`
`15:49.14`	`hrw`	`my d400 is fscking slow now`
`15:49.28`	`hrw`	`600MHz suxx`
`15:49.45`	`johnx`	`your n810 is pretty close to that :)`
`15:49.51`	`hrw`	`yep`
`15:50.25`	`konttori`	`GAN8001: If you're at linuxtag, come to nokia booth tomorrow.`
`15:50.30`	`konttori`	`I'm at there all day`
`15:50.45`	`johnx`	`so, hrw, what are your thoughts on the "Open Pandora" linux handheld?`
`15:50.49`	`GAN8001`	`Nah, I'm remaining in the States`
`15:50.55`	`GAN8001`	`Tickets are expensive. :P`
`15:50.58`	`konttori`	`ah`
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`15:51.36`	`hrw`	`johnx: first let them release it`
`15:51.42`	`johnx`	`fair enough :)`
`15:51.50`	`hrw`	`johnx: then we will talk. now it is prototype maybe`
`15:52.02`	`*** join/#maemo MangoFusion (n=jamesu@host217-43-242-247.range217-43.btcentralplus.com)`
`15:52.05`	`*** join/#maemo msanchez (n=Mario@cm216016.red83-165.mundo-r.com)`
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`15:52.10`	`hrw`	`johnx: look at beagleboard from TI guys - thats interesting device`
`15:52.26`	`johnx`	`definitely, just saw that the other day`
`15:52.43`	`hrw`	`and this one exists \`
`15:52.53`	`hrw`	`and is fully supported by OpenEmbedded`
`15:53.05`	`johnx`	`I don't think it will survive long in my pocket though :/`
`15:53.09`	`*** join/#maemo behdad (n=behdad@209.167.232.100)`
`15:53.18`	`GAN8001`	`Ha`
`15:53.20`	`*** join/#maemo sergio_ (n=sergio@cm216016.red83-165.mundo-r.com)`
`15:53.32`	`*** join/#maemo Mousey (n=mprov@dsl093-144-195.sba1.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`15:53.33`	`GAN8001`	`BeagleBoard looks cool as a home server of some sort, though.`
`15:53.47`	`johnx`	`or even a mobile server`
`15:54.08`	`johnx`	`or if you feel really geeky, a good start to a wearable computer`
`15:54.08`	`GAN8001`	`Certainly be quieter than the 2001 Quicksilver tower I'm using now.`
`15:54.15`	`qwerty12`	`Can anyone with a N8*0 with US wifi frequences run cat /dev/mtd1ro \| grep wlan-tx-gen plz? Mine is reported as wlan-tx-gen2, I wonder if it is different on another N800.`
`15:54.52`	`johnx`	`qwerty12, I see the same thing`
`15:55.01`	`qwerty12`	`Ah, thanks`
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`15:58.17`	`GAN8001`	`Hehe: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jadon/2295700120/sizes/l/in/pool-705532@N22/`
`15:58.27`	`hrw`	`have a nice evening and rest of week`
`15:58.37`	`hrw`	`see you on linuxtag guys`
`15:58.53`	`GAN8001`	`http://www.flickr.com/photos/jadon/2414674548/sizes/l/in/pool-705532@N22/`
`15:59.06`	`johnx`	`qwerty12, I don't see many interesting strings :/`
`15:59.18`	`johnx`	`...in mtd1ro`
`15:59.50`	`qwerty12`	`It's config partition where CAL is stored. After I can get a cold flasher cable, I plan to try and reflash my own :/`
`16:00.32`	`johnx`	`GAN800, that is quite interesting once I figured out what was going on O_o`
`16:00.51`	`johnx`	`is that the beagleboard?`
`16:01.10`	`GAN8001`	`Yeah`
`16:01.14`	`GAN8001`	`$149`
`16:01.18`	`GAN8001`	`wants NOA`
`16:02.07`	`unixSnob`	`qwerty12: I see wlan-tx-gen3`
`16:02.23`	`*** join/#maemo zap (n=zap@28.169.249.ozerki.net)`
`16:03.06`	`qwerty12`	`unixSnob, mind running osso-product-info and saying what WLAN_CHANNEL is? thanks`
`16:03.35`	`unixSnob`	`qwerty12: ha.. I was just messing with you.. I saw wlan-tx-gen2 too :)`
`16:03.46`	`qwerty12`	`lol`
`16:03.57`	`qwerty12`	`hehe, I thought you were serious :p`
`16:04.07`	`*** join/#maemo eton (n=eton@ppp-58-8-4-164.revip2.asianet.co.th)`
`16:04.25`	`unixSnob`	`i just wanted to see if you would get excited about seeing another version.. though I have no idea what this string is`
`16:10.30`	`*** join/#maemo behdad (n=behdad@209.167.232.100)`
`16:10.35`	`GAN8001`	`Mmm . . . this Beagle is hot.`
`16:11.07`	`*** join/#maemo andre___ (n=andre@f053153217.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`16:11.57`	`GAN8001`	`It's mildly disheartening that all the new OMAP3 devices I've seen have the same amount of NAND/RAM as the N8x0. . . .`
`16:12.03`	`*** join/#maemo pupnik810 (n=pupnik@217.237.166.99)`
`16:12.09`	`*** join/#maemo florian_ (n=fuchs@217.237.166.82)`
`16:12.26`	`johnx`	`a little, but that seems to be par for the course in embedded ARM land`
`16:12.31`	`pupnik810`	`keesj, huhu`
`16:12.34`	`johnx`	`at least we're bumped to 128MB now`
`16:13.00`	`GAN8001`	`Fortunately it doesn't seem OMAP dependent.`
`16:13.16`	`GAN8001`	`"The Beagle uses the OMAP3 version ES2.1. It is in a .4mm pitch POP package. POP (Package on Package) is a technique where the memory, NAND and SDRAM, are mounted on top of the OMAP3. For this reason, when looking at the Beagle, you will not find an actual part labeled OMAP3."`
`16:13.45`	`pupnik810`	`ti is showing beagleboard at ltag here`
`16:14.01`	`GAN8001`	`"A 4 pin DIN connector is provided to access the S-Video output of the Beagle. This is a separate output from the OMAP processor and can contain different video output data from what is found on the DVI-D output."`
`16:14.02`	`GAN8001`	`Nice.`
`16:14.12`	`GAN8001`	`pupnik810, lotsa pics plz? :D`
`16:15.21`	`johnx`	`man, it's almost like this whole linux thing is starting to catch on :D`
`16:15.36`	`pupnik810`	`cam is chrgin`
`16:15.39`	`pupnik810`	`i hope`
`16:15.55`	`GAN8001`	`pupnik810, you there?`
`16:15.59`	`pupnik810`	`lots of cute females actually`
`16:16.03`	`GAN8001`	`Hehe`
`16:16.04`	`pupnik810`	`yeah`
`16:16.35`	`pupnik810`	`yeah the bgl is tiiiny`
`16:18.18`	`pupnik810`	`i will film the beagle demo 4 u`
`16:18.58`	`GAN8001`	`pupnik810, thanks!`
`16:19.25`	`johnx`	`yeah, thanks pupnik :D`
`16:19.27`	`GAN8001`	`http://www.beagleboard.org/uploads/Beagle_HW_Reference_Manual_A_5.pdf`
`16:19.35`	`GAN8001`	`The OMAP3 is rather disturbingly small`
`16:20.29`	`GAN8001`	`Page 35 is nicely labelled.`
`16:21.07`	`*** join/#maemo atlas95 (n=cyril@mlv95-3-88-168-37-51.fbx.proxad.net)`
`16:22.34`	`johnx`	`hmm...that would make a darn nice start to a wearable computer`
`16:23.32`	`*** join/#maemo zpol (n=gentoo-d@unaffiliated/lopz)`
`16:26.01`	`*** join/#maemo harry (n=kcome@58.213.216.49)`
`16:26.13`	`johnx`	`sony had some nice glasses to provide a heads-up display too`
`16:26.15`	`GAN8001`	`The price is beyond perfect.`
`16:26.27`	`*** join/#maemo huats (n=chris@ubuntu/member/huats)`
`16:28.21`	`*** join/#maemo Mousey (n=mprov@dsl093-144-195.sba1.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`16:36.28`	`*** join/#maemo woojjob (n=wmirc_us@211.197.45.66)`
`16:37.11`	`qwerty12`	`Man, qemu does take a crapload of time to compile :/`
`16:37.22`	`GAN8001`	`You and your shit hardware. :P`
`16:37.25`	`qwerty12`	`And as soon as I said that, it finished 8-)`
`16:37.59`	`qwerty12`	`Nah, 2.8GHz 2 core and 2gb ram baby`
`16:38.37`	`*** join/#maemo Anunakin (n=fazzi@189.82.118.174)`
`16:38.44`	`qwerty12`	`Although my old computer was too chungg, 700mhz and 128mb ram... ripped it apart and used it to softmod the xbox and binned the old computer...`
`16:38.46`	`*** join/#maemo captainigloo (n=silent@gar31-4-82-240-198-102.fbx.proxad.net)`
`16:39.20`	`johnx`	`enjoys using his a shell account on his friend's machine for compiling 8)`
`16:40.26`	`qwerty12`	`Aww, johnx's computer is too crap for the job :p`
`16:40.55`	`johnx`	`it works fine, but this lets me do 2 compiles at once`
`16:41.03`	`johnx`	`or one compile without slowing down my computer :)`
`16:41.27`	`johnx`	`anyways, a quad core phenom chews through compile way quicker than your desktop or mine :P`
`16:41.34`	`qwerty12`	`of course :p`
`16:42.14`	`*** join/#maemo simon_ (n=simon@w208.wist.uni-linz.ac.at)`
`16:42.37`	`johnx`	`heh...except when it hard-locks while compiling glibc and it's a little far away to run over and reboot -_-`
`16:45.08`	`pupnik810`	`odd im the only guy at ltag with xchat`
`16:45.20`	`qwerty12`	`wtf`
`16:45.22`	`qwerty12`	`xchat pwns`
`16:45.53`	`pupnik810`	`wheres keesj`
`16:46.20`	`GAN800`	`Go and beat the up with the .deb, pupnik. :D`
`16:46.36`	`pupnik810`	`??`
`16:46.43`	`GAN800`	`xchat`
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`16:48.20`	`woojjob`	`is it possible to make php server on n8x0`
`16:48.35`	`qwerty12`	`Bollox. I thought I was compiling qemu with n800 emulation but it seems like the binary isn't there.`
`16:48.42`	`johnx`	`woojjob, I think so`
`16:48.54`	`pupnik810`	`well if lcuk or keesj show up here im in room 402`
`16:49.00`	`johnx`	`qwerty12, shouldn't it just be part of qemu-system-arm?`
`16:49.03`	`woojjob`	`it.s good`
`16:49.38`	`qwerty12`	`johnx, Dunno, I'm compiling qemu from cvs with hrw's patch. Just gonna have to look around :/`
`16:50.49`	`johnx`	`right, so it should make a binary called qemu-system-arm that can emulate an n800...`
`16:56.47`	`GAN8001`	`Ha: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-developers/2008-May/033508.html`
`16:56.50`	`qwerty12`	`That's great: "svn: URL 'http://svn.o-hand.com/repos/poky/trunk/meta/packages/qemu/qemu-0.9.1%2Bcvs20080307' doesn't exist". Until: http://svn.o-hand.com/view/poky/trunk/meta/packages/qemu/qemu-0.9.1%2Bcvs20080307/?rev=4233#dirlist`
`16:57.57`	`*** join/#maemo zwn1 (n=behnam@91.184.74.95)`
`16:58.00`	`*** join/#maemo Anunakin (n=fazzi@189.82.118.174)`
`16:58.36`	`Anunakin`	`hi all!`
`16:58.41`	`*** join/#maemo fnordianslip (n=fnoridan@client-86-27-181-43.popl.adsl.virgin.net)`
`16:58.43`	`GAN8001`	`Howdy`
`16:59.32`	`Anunakin`	`Any here using Debian? on N810?`
`16:59.45`	`qwerty12`	`uses Debian on N800`
`16:59.51`	`johnx`	`Anunakin, yup :)`
`17:01.03`	`johnx`	`sorry, didn't read that completely. I'm using it on an n800`
`17:01.25`	`Anunakin`	`hum`
`17:01.34`	`*** join/#maemo jeez_ (n=jeez@200.184.118.132)`
`17:03.25`	`johnx`	`have a question?`
`17:05.17`	`*** join/#maemo k-s (n=gustavo@201.82.9.119)`
`17:05.28`	`*** join/#maemo booiiing_ (n=[booiiin@e180044229.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
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`17:07.21`	`Anunakin`	`Johnx...`
`17:07.23`	`Anunakin`	`yes`
`17:07.37`	`Anunakin`	`I talking with qwerty12`
`17:07.56`	`qwerty12`	`is clueless I have to add`
`17:07.59`	`Anunakin`	`about patch X, to have middle and left mouse clicks`
`17:08.28`	`*** join/#maemo BTobotras (n=boris@ppp85-140-5-127.pppoe.mtu-net.ru)`
`17:08.41`	`johnx`	`so you want to rebuild xomap with your middle/right click patch?`
`17:09.14`	`Anunakin`	`but ... we have Xomap sources?`
`17:09.21`	`johnx`	`yup`
`17:09.48`	`Anunakin`	`The patchs files for X ... we can found on pdaXrom project...`
`17:10.37`	`Anunakin`	`There are more... like a handwriter tool for X`
`17:11.32`	`Anunakin`	`A light plugin to use with kernel 2.6... this uses python ...`
`17:11.40`	`*** join/#maemo atlas95 (n=cyril@mlv95-3-88-168-37-51.fbx.proxad.net)`
`17:11.46`	`johnx`	`xomap sources are here: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.0.1/free/x/xorg-server/`
`17:12.27`	`Anunakin`	`This plugin controls backlight`
`17:13.03`	`*** join/#maemo svu_ (n=svu@89.100.3.26)`
`17:13.14`	`Anunakin`	`We can patch it for write to /sys/devices/platform/omapfb/panel/backlight_level`
`17:13.37`	`johnx`	`there's also one for angstrom written in C`
`17:14.14`	`*** join/#maemo atlas95_ (n=cyril@mlv95-3-88-168-37-51.fbx.proxad.net)`
`17:14.42`	`johnx`	`if you wanted to work on some that stuff, that would be really great`
`17:15.13`	`*** join/#maemo kabtoffe_ (n=kbergstr@hoas-fe2add00-192.dhcp.inet.fi)`
`17:17.40`	`Anunakin`	`I think... better then work on plugins from Angstron`
`17:18.55`	`*** part/#maemo jam-one (n=chatzill@c-98-221-58-141.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)`
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`17:32.59`	`woojjob`	`good daybreak`
`17:36.10`	`RST38h`	`all right`
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`17:44.19`	`johnx`	`watches python-hildon compile on debian/armel`
`17:44.40`	`Navi`	`woo`
`17:45.07`	`Navi`	`got hildonness working?`
`17:45.20`	`johnx`	`libhildon is in debian proper`
`17:45.27`	`Navi`	`mmk`
`17:45.32`	`johnx`	`tinymail and modest are being packaged by someone else`
`17:45.50`	`Navi`	`so you have modest running?`
`17:45.51`	`johnx`	`so I decided to take a swing at repackaging python-hildon and seeing how many apps will "just work"`
`17:46.00`	`johnx`	`not yet`
`17:46.06`	`Navi`	`mmk`
`17:46.15`	`johnx`	`waiting on someone else to finish with libtinymail packaing`
`17:46.24`	`Navi`	`lol`
`17:47.18`	`*** join/#maemo ultralord (n=ultralor@150.Red-83-33-157.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)`
`17:47.38`	`johnx`	`actually, it should be pretty easy to do a quick/dirty job...but more work to bring it up to debian standards`
`17:47.53`	`summatusmentis`	`woot! feeds are up!`
`17:47.54`	`ultralord`	`Hola. En su dÃa recibi el cupon de descuento para comprar el N810. Donde lo puedo solicitar de nuevo? Gracias.`
`17:48.07`	`ultralord`	`Lo perdi`
`17:48.12`	`Navi`	`feeds for what?`
`17:48.19`	`summatusmentis`	`Navi: the repos`
`17:48.27`	`Navi`	`?`
`17:48.50`	`summatusmentis`	`ultralord: hablas ingles? nosotros preferemos hablar en ingles`
`17:49.03`	`summatusmentis`	`Navi: for whateve reason, I couldn't download any packages last night`
`17:49.12`	`Navi`	`ah`
`17:49.49`	`GAN8001`	`Navi, #3191`
`17:49.57`	`GAN8001`	`Er, #3194, rather`
`17:50.42`	`*** join/#maemo zwnj (n=behnam@91.184.72.244)`
`17:50.58`	`*** join/#maemo Dregs (n=Dregs@unaffiliated/dregz)`
`17:51.43`	`ultralord`	`Hello, a time ago I received a coupon of discount. In order to buy the N810. There am it lost. Where I can ask for it again? Thanks.`
`17:51.58`	`GAN8001`	`ultralord, email Nokia support.`
`17:52.08`	`GAN8001`	`Expires in June, as far as I know.`
`17:52.10`	`GAN8001`	`So act fast.`
`17:53.19`	`gnuSnob`	`wonders what the n810 promo was`
`17:53.34`	`GAN8001`	`gnuSnob, it wasn't a "promo", really`
`17:53.46`	`GAN8001`	`It's the discount program for developers and community folks.`
`17:53.52`	`gnuSnob`	`ah`
`17:53.57`	`GAN8001`	`http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/500_fortunate_applicants.html`
`17:56.11`	`*** join/#maemo Navi_ (n=Navi@unaffiliated/navi)`
`17:57.13`	`Navi_`	`Ugh`
`17:58.40`	`ultralord`	`Thanks, already I have sent a request to the Support of Nokia. To see if it responds to me.`
`17:59.57`	`ultralord`	`Like the code of discount, as it is the price of the N810?`
`18:01.00`	`RST38h`	`Hehe: http://www.regdeveloper.co.uk/2008/05/28/eclipse_e4_old_java/`
`18:01.33`	`GAN8001`	`ultralord, (assuming I read the question correctly) the N810 should go for about $160 USD with the discount code.`
`18:01.44`	`RST38h`	`Anybody knows why a brand new N810 would refuse to power up after flashing it with the latest firmware?`
`18:02.36`	`GAN8001`	`Low battery?`
`18:03.09`	`Navi`	`No battery?`
`18:03.27`	`*** part/#maemo ultralord (n=ultralor@150.Red-83-33-157.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)`
`18:03.31`	`GAN8001`	`Somebody stole the insides? :P`
`18:03.56`	`johnx`	`that's not an n810, it's actually a dead badger?`
`18:04.45`	`GAN8001`	`Put your glasses on, RST38h. :P`
`18:05.17`	`*** join/#maemo atlas95__ (n=cyril@mlv95-3-88-168-37-51.fbx.proxad.net)`
`18:07.51`	`*** join/#maemo JussiP (n=jpakkane@xdsl-83-145-207-155.nebulazone.fi)`
`18:09.24`	`*** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com)`
`18:12.46`	`*** join/#maemo TPC (n=andreas@pdpc/supporter/student/TPC)`
`18:13.36`	`RST38h`	`No, seems ok otherwise`
`18:13.51`	`RST38h`	`Turns on every now and then, seemingly at random`
`18:14.05`	`RST38h`	`(but still after pressing the power key of course :))`
`18:15.15`	`*** join/#maemo dholbert (n=dholbert@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com)`
`18:15.37`	`*** join/#maemo qwerty12_N800 (n=faheem@host-84-9-52-131.dslgb.com)`
`18:16.05`	`*** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com)`
`18:22.59`	`*** join/#maemo alex-weej (n=alex@cpc1-acto9-0-0-cust931.brnt.cable.ntl.com)`
`18:23.21`	`kimrhh`	`does anyone have a simple Makefile for making a C app to the ARMEL target?`
`18:24.01`	`johnx`	`kimrhh, you want to cross compile? or compile natively on am arm machine?`
`18:24.28`	`kimrhh`	`johnx: cross, it's for the n810`
`18:24.30`	`kimrhh`	`:)`
`18:24.53`	`kimrhh`	`and I'm no autotools expert myself :)`
`18:24.58`	`johnx`	`so you're not using scratchbox?`
`18:26.01`	`kimrhh`	`johnx: well yes, but reading through the docs I can't find an example Makefile, guess I could grap one from one of the .deb packages`
`18:26.04`	`*** join/#maemo thopiekar (n=thopieka@p57A15B01.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`18:26.22`	`kimrhh`	`since this is only 1 .c file`
`18:26.43`	`johnx`	`if you're in scratchbox you can just act as if you're compiling natively and it should "just work" (tm)`
`18:26.54`	`kimrhh`	`and not something that should be installed on other n810s I actually just the the right gcc command`
`18:27.00`	`kimrhh`	`johnx: aha`
`18:27.05`	`kimrhh`	`fancy :)`
`18:27.09`	`kimrhh`	`let me try that`
`18:29.50`	`*** join/#maemo tortoise_ (n=tortoise@87-194-162-231.bethere.co.uk)`
`18:30.40`	`Navi`	`johnx, illegal use of trademarks`
`18:30.49`	`Navi`	`arrests johnx`
`18:30.52`	`johnx`	`heh`
`18:31.04`	`johnx`	`to quote slashdot tags goodluckwiththat`
`18:31.11`	`Navi`	`:D`
`18:31.44`	`Navi`	`obconf takes up a huge amount of ram caching everything :`
`18:31.45`	`*** join/#maemo Gatestone (n=app@192.100.104.170)`
`18:31.46`	`Navi`	`:\|`
`18:31.54`	`johnx`	`though, to be honest, I assumed that comment in red in my IRC window was going to say "illegal instruction"`
`18:32.15`	`johnx`	`I actually had to reread it to figure out what was going on`
`18:32.25`	`*** join/#maemo ReKlipz (n=administ@137.48.130.85)`
`18:33.08`	`Gatestone`	`Greeting from Vancouver, we are trying install Maemo here in the class...`
`18:33.53`	`johnx`	`hi`
`18:37.17`	`GAN8001`	`Hi, Vancouver. :P`
`18:37.31`	`Navi`	`troll`
`18:37.34`	`*** join/#maemo foka (n=foka@124.64.109.125)`
`18:37.59`	`*** join/#maemo WorkingOnWise (n=WorkingO@97-83-156-31.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com)`
`18:39.13`	`*** join/#maemo Rimdar_Klall (i=80e38f4d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-a1dcd14ff6f28818)`
`18:39.26`	`ReKlipz`	`ï»¿A question: I've enabled R&D Mode on my n810. without installing ssh, how can I access the root account, and what is the default password?`
`18:39.27`	`Rimdar_Klall`	`Please help me, I just accidentally revealed my password`
`18:39.30`	`Rimdar_Klall`	`how do I change it!`
`18:39.48`	`qwerty12_N800`	`ReKlipz, sudo gainroot`
`18:40.09`	`johnx`	`ReKlipz, yup, no root password is set by default`
`18:40.10`	`qwerty12_N800`	`no default password if you don't have ssh`
`18:40.23`	`ReKlipz`	`so, it's just "enter"?`
`18:40.31`	`Navi`	`ReKlipz, on IRC?`
`18:40.34`	`Navi`	`er`
`18:40.37`	`Navi`	`Rimdar_Klall, on IRC?`
`18:40.44`	`johnx`	`ReKlipz, sudo gainroot<enter>`
`18:40.57`	`johnx`	`Rimdar_Klall, run passwd`
`18:41.31`	`Navi`	`johnx, running passwd doesn't help if it's for IRC :P`
`18:42.15`	`johnx`	`Navi, since this is #maemo I figured it was tablet related. :shrugs:`
`18:43.22`	`ReKlipz`	`is there anyway to connect to a network via usb instead of wlan? the wlan doesnt seem to be very good with my n810...`
`18:43.55`	`johnx`	`ReKlipz, yup. It's called usbnet.`
`18:45.21`	`GAN8001`	`ReKlipz, your router may not like the wifi powersaving`
`18:45.27`	`GAN8001`	`You could try turning it off.`
`18:46.00`	`ReKlipz`	`the WLAN idle time?`
`18:46.05`	`ReKlipz`	`it is set to unlimited`
`18:46.13`	`johnx`	`ReKlipz, nope, in advanced`
`18:47.01`	`ReKlipz`	`advanced is where?`
`18:47.36`	`ReKlipz`	`ah, found it`
`18:47.37`	`johnx`	`control panel -> connectivity -> connections -> select your ap -> edit -> next, next, next, advanced`
`18:47.38`	`johnx`	`IIRC`
`18:47.59`	`ReKlipz`	`yeah, it's specific to AP`
`18:48.15`	`*** part/#maemo Rimdar_Klall (i=80e38f4d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-a1dcd14ff6f28818)`
`18:48.32`	`johnx`	`it's a well kept secret O_o`
`18:48.48`	`*** join/#maemo n800m (n=n800@207-181-235-144.mct-bsr1.chi-mct.il.cable.rcn.com)`
`18:49.46`	`ReKlipz`	`i think it's just crappy signal strength, we're in the process of redoing the whole network, wired and all. Is there support for 802.1x authentication (specifically RADIUS)`
`18:49.56`	`Navi`	`dun steel mah seeckrehts`
`18:51.10`	`GAN8001`	`ReKlipz, it pretends it's specific, but it's actually a global setting`
`18:51.29`	`GAN8001`	`There's a bug somewhere. . . .`
`18:51.39`	`johnx`	`GAN800, it's part of the UI spec :D`
`18:51.49`	`Navi`	`yay UI spec`
`18:52.04`	`johnx`	`actually joking this time...though I wouldn't be surprised`
`18:52.14`	`GAN8001`	`blows his top.`
`18:52.31`	`*** join/#maemo DaniloCesar (n=DaniloCe@lapis-ap.inf.ufpr.br)`
`18:52.38`	`GAN8001`	`is waiting for Quim to get out of whatever meeting he's in so I can jump down his throat again. ;)`
`18:52.51`	`johnx`	`and dance upon his liver?`
`18:53.12`	`GAN8001`	`Actually, johnx, joking you may be, but I believe it actually is a UI spec issue. <_<`
`18:53.45`	`RST38h`	`KILL KILL`
`18:54.24`	`Navi`	`PHOENIX DOWN PHOENIX DOWN`
`18:54.37`	`ReKlipz`	`what happened to phoenix?`
`18:55.09`	`GAN8001`	`It landed. :P`
`18:55.22`	`ReKlipz`	`so, it's not "down"`
`18:55.26`	`ReKlipz`	`it's been landed for like 2 days`
`18:55.27`	`GAN8001`	`Yes it is.`
`18:55.31`	`johnx`	`well it's not up`
`18:55.47`	`ReKlipz`	`they've gotten pictures back from it...`
`18:55.50`	`GAN8001`	`Landing is frequently referred to as being "down". :P`
`18:55.58`	`johnx`	`in fact I'm pretty sure it's going to have trouble even making orbit, let alone escape velocity...`
`18:56.02`	`Navi`	`O_o`
`18:56.09`	`GAN8001`	`A pilot might say, "We're down"`
`18:56.09`	`ReKlipz`	`yeah, i guess, but it landed over 48 hours ago...`
`18:56.22`	`johnx`	`and hasn't floated away yet!`
`18:56.26`	`GAN8001`	`Yeah, Navi's just being trollish and I'm just making a joke. :P`
`18:56.30`	`ReKlipz`	`:P`
`18:56.34`	`Navi`	`:P`
`18:56.37`	`*** join/#maemo BabelO (n=Fabrice@lun34-2-82-238-28-28.fbx.proxad.net)`
`18:56.39`	`ReKlipz`	`i thought it broked`
`18:56.47`	`Navi`	`I'm totally not trolling`
`18:56.56`	`GAN8001`	`Don't lie`
`18:57.08`	`Navi`	`lies`
`18:57.24`	`Navi`	`I lied about lying`
`18:58.33`	`ReKlipz`	`the statement, "I'm a liar" is true no matter what.`
`18:59.42`	`*** join/#maemo NullM0dem (n=brian@215-150-139-71-rev.omegacomminc.com)`
`18:59.53`	`johnx`	`yay...for random packaging of maemo apps! woo!`
`19:00.03`	`Navi`	`Woo!`
`19:00.06`	`*** join/#maemo qwerty12_N800 (n=faheem@host-84-9-52-131.dslgb.com)`
`19:00.06`	`Navi`	`Sup?`
`19:00.28`	`johnx`	`a script called "makedeb" instead of control, rules, changelog`
`19:01.24`	`qwerty12_N800`	`Anyone know where the patch to run the N800's Cpu at 400 when dsp is enabled or running at 133?`
`19:01.59`	`Navi`	`shrugs`
`19:02.02`	`GAN8001`	`johnx, you going to join pkg-maemo?`
`19:02.05`	`GAN8001`	`They seem a little dead.`
`19:02.20`	`GAN8001`	`qwerty12_N800, check fanoush's site?`
`19:02.30`	`johnx`	`GAN8001, I poked at them. They're working on tinymail so I decided to give python-hildon a try`
`19:02.40`	`qwerty12_N800`	`GAN800, Thanks, checking now`
`19:03.33`	`ReKlipz`	`so, if I remove hildon, I will still have the hardware drivers / api, right?`
`19:04.00`	`n800m`	`http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/6555/1210300064121rv8.jpg`
`19:04.10`	`*** join/#maemo jpuderer (n=jpuderer@128.224.252.2)`
`19:04.13`	`qwerty12_N800`	`No, can't see the patch there. I think it's included in his kernel, will take a look`
`19:04.18`	`johnx`	`ReKlipz, yes, but all your GUI programs will be broken`
`19:04.25`	`*** join/#maemo foka (n=foka@124.64.109.125)`
`19:04.29`	`GAN8001`	`Throw rocks at fanoush until he gives up his secrets, then.`
`19:04.49`	`ReKlipz`	`johnx: but I'll still have the GTK, no?`
`19:04.50`	`kimrhh`	`hmm, so where are the folder which the Application Manager can see actually located in the fs hierachy?`
`19:05.04`	`GAN8001`	`"folder"?`
`19:05.10`	`ReKlipz`	`I just want to remove the whole "window manager/navigation" piece, and replace it with my own single app.`
`19:05.17`	`kimrhh`	`GAN8001: directories then :)`
`19:05.27`	`johnx`	`ReKlipz, aaah, ok`
`19:05.32`	`johnx`	`the window manager is matchbox`
`19:05.32`	`GAN8001`	`The question still isn't entirely meaningful, kimrhh. :P`
`19:05.39`	`kimrhh`	`Documents, Audio Clips, Images etc`
`19:05.42`	`johnx`	`and the side panels are "hildon desktop"`
`19:05.55`	`johnx`	`hildon is also the name of the GUI lib`
`19:05.55`	`GAN8001`	`kimrhh, Application manager?`
`19:06.06`	`kimrhh`	`GAN8001: well, they are not in /home/user at least :)`
`19:06.18`	`GAN8001`	`is confused.`
`19:06.26`	`kimrhh`	`GAN8001: yees, you know, the one that comes with the OS2008 :)`
`19:06.30`	`GAN8001`	`Documents, Audio Clips, and Images have nothing to do with the Application manager.`
`19:06.35`	`GAN8001`	`You mean File manager?`
`19:06.46`	`kimrhh`	`GAN8001: it's possible to choose, "install from file"`
`19:06.49`	`kimrhh`	`nope`
`19:06.49`	`GAN8001`	`If so, it's /home/user/MyDocs/.documents etc`
`19:06.54`	`*** join/#maemo puffandstuff (n=puffands@lns-bzn-22-82-249-92-78.adsl.proxad.net)`
`19:06.55`	`johnx`	`kimrhh, the folders app manager installs to? or where it looks for files?`
`19:07.09`	`johnx`	`where it looks for files: below /home/user/MyDocs`
`19:07.16`	`kimrhh`	`johnx: looks, think the . prefix is the answer :)`
`19:07.18`	`johnx`	`and also on sd cards /media/mmc1 /media/mmc2`
`19:07.18`	`kimrhh`	`thanks`
`19:07.42`	`GAN8001`	`Application manager was unrelated. :P`
`19:07.51`	`kimrhh`	`i just scp'ed the .deb og bluez-utils over, thought it was easier`
`19:08.06`	`GAN8001`	`kimrhh, just dpkg -i it over ssh`
`19:08.09`	`johnx`	`kimrhh, just mv it to MyDocs`
`19:08.39`	`kimrhh`	`johnx: it is in MyDocs, that doesn't seem to be a dir visible to app manager`
`19:08.46`	`kimrhh`	`GAN8001: ah, much nicer`
`19:08.49`	`lopz`	`mm... gobject.GError: no element "multimpartdemux" any ideas ?`
`19:08.52`	`johnx`	`kimrhh, it is`
`19:09.03`	`lopz`	`multipartdemux*`
`19:09.44`	`kimrhh`	`johnx: oh it is, just me who fails it :) but a little non-logic that it's called Nokia N810 :)`
`19:10.27`	`johnx`	`yeah, it's a little annoying that Nokia couldn't just let us poke around in /home/user but had to move things one level down instead`
`19:10.48`	`kimrhh`	`indeed`
`19:11.03`	`kimrhh`	`not sure I get the whole "you cannot sudo" thing`
`19:11.09`	`GAN8001`	`It's "user friendly" johnx. :P`
`19:11.36`	`*** join/#maemo Anunakin (n=fazzi@189.82.151.191)`
`19:11.43`	`kimrhh`	`but i guess, switching to R&D mode actually is like saying "ok, I know that I can harm my device now" :)`
`19:11.51`	`johnx`	`basically`
`19:11.57`	`GAN8001`	`Better off just installing easyroot`
`19:12.00`	`johnx`	`or just install easyroot from nitapps.com`
`19:12.09`	`GAN8001`	`R&D mode has some other consequences.`
`19:12.45`	`qwerty12_N800`	`uses tablet in rd mode because i keep forgetting to turn it off :p`
`19:12.57`	`*** join/#maemo virusc (n=virusc@host86-149-17-104.range86-149.btcentralplus.com)`
`19:14.19`	`kimrhh`	`GAN8001: i'll remember that, only found the guides about replacing openssh with dropbear, and thought it was just easier to drop into R&D`
`19:16.26`	`GAN8001`	`I'm really digging Benson's backpack server idea.`
`19:17.02`	`johnx`	`GAN8001, on ITT?`
`19:17.31`	`GAN8001`	`The BeagleBoard thread`
`19:17.38`	`GAN8001`	`Dump a beagle in a backpack`
`19:17.45`	`johnx`	`yeah...that's what I thought at first too`
`19:17.55`	`GAN8001`	`put a stack of batteries in there, GPS, WAP, WWAN, NAS`
`19:17.58`	`johnx`	`with a big 9 cell laptop battery and a cellphone uplink`
`19:18.07`	`johnx`	`bluetooth for a2dp too`
`19:18.15`	`GAN8001`	`Some good antennas so you get decent range.`
`19:18.30`	`qwerty12_N800`	`erm, does a dev_dbg function mean more dmesg output?`
`19:18.34`	`johnx`	`I was actually thinking of a gumstix for that kind of project`
`19:18.44`	`GAN8001`	`I doubt if I'd get much use out of something like that as it stands, but still.`
`19:18.45`	`johnx`	`but beagleboard would work too`
`19:18.55`	`GAN8001`	`Be a fun project`
`19:19.13`	`johnx`	`and a beagleboard does svideo out too :D`
`19:19.21`	`GAN8001`	`Yeah`
`19:19.34`	`johnx`	`nice to take over to a friend's house and plug into the TV`
`19:19.41`	`GAN8001`	`I wonder if they've got the PowerVR or IVA2 working on that thing.`
`19:20.01`	`qwerty12_N800`	`likes the way maemo is running on the beagleboards :)`
`19:20.02`	`johnx`	`actually...if it's pandora compatible it might make a neat linux-based console :D`
`19:20.54`	`GAN8001`	`Fun fun fun`
`19:21.17`	`GAN8001`	`I like it as a invisible desktop, too.`
`19:21.30`	`johnx`	`vesa mount to the back of an LCD?`
`19:22.00`	`GAN8001`	`Something like that`
`19:22.11`	`johnx`	`heh`
`19:22.28`	`johnx`	`maybe you could find someplace inside the LCD bezel to stick it`
`19:22.34`	`johnx`	`or in the base of the stand`
`19:22.38`	`GAN8001`	`I wonder if anybody sells a 5-8" LCD I could attach to it easily`
`19:22.45`	`johnx`	`sure`
`19:22.48`	`*** join/#maemo LinuxCode (n=Titan@unaffiliated/linuxcode)`
`19:22.48`	`johnx`	`look for carpc stuff`
`19:22.55`	`GAN8001`	`Crappy and lowres`
`19:23.02`	`johnx`	`not necessarily`
`19:23.03`	`GAN8001`	`I'm thinking touch, too.`
`19:23.16`	`GAN8001`	`Build myself a wooden tablet`
`19:23.30`	`*** join/#maemo BabelO (n=Fabrice@lun34-2-82-238-28-28.fbx.proxad.net)`
`19:23.51`	`*** join/#maemo kkrusty (n=cache@5ad5f387.bb.sky.com)`
`19:24.44`	`kulve`	`afaik, beagle doesn't have SGX nor IVA in use, at least not yet`
`19:25.09`	`GAN8001`	`So I figured`
`19:25.14`	`GAN8001`	`The future holds hope, though`
`19:26.15`	`johnx`	`that's the same omap as the pandora though, right?`
`19:26.24`	`GAN8001`	`Think so`
`19:26.40`	`GAN8001`	`Effectively the same as the N900 is likely to have, too.`
`19:26.52`	`GAN8001`	`wonders how easily drivers/libraries can be shared.`
`19:27.03`	`johnx`	`and the pandora will definitely have a working powervr driver`
`19:27.32`	`*** join/#maemo skibur (n=skibur@adsl-66-142-66-43.dsl.snantx.swbell.net)`
`19:27.44`	`summatusmentis`	`wait, n900? I hope that's not coming soon...`
`19:28.09`	`*** join/#maemo jukey (n=jukey@BAA199e.baa.pppool.de)`
`19:28.33`	`johnx`	`summatusmentis, it's a rumor only`
`19:28.37`	`GAN8001`	`summatusmentis, earliest'll be late Q3`
`19:28.48`	`GAN8001`	`But, like johnx says, there's absolutely nothing concrete yet`
`19:28.49`	`johnx`	`if I had to bet, I'd say Q4 2008 or Q1 2009`
`19:28.58`	`GAN8001`	`really hopes it's this year`
`19:29.11`	`GAN8001`	`2009 will put them way behind the curve. :\`
`19:29.36`	`summatusmentis`	`I just bought a n810! :-/`
`19:29.43`	`summatusmentis`	`I hate how fast tech turns over`
`19:29.52`	`Anunakin`	`yes`
`19:30.05`	`Anunakin`	`I just bought a N810 too...`
`19:30.27`	`GAN8001`	`Get over it.`
`19:30.32`	`GAN8001`	`Technology moves`
`19:30.41`	`GAN8001`	`It doesn't invalidate the device you have in your hands right now`
`19:31.00`	`GAN8001`	`Me, personally, I've had this tablet since January 2007 . . . I'm ready for an upgrade.`
`19:31.49`	`*** join/#maemo sxpert_ (n=sxpert@2001:6f8:347:0:20c:76ff:fe3f:8b0f)`
`19:32.00`	`Anunakin`	`hehe`
`19:32.17`	`Anunakin`	`Jan 2007... I had a Zaurus SL 3100`
`19:32.26`	`kkrusty`	`I bought an n800 a few weeks ago :(`
`19:33.35`	`kkrusty`	`cost me 149 pounds`
`19:33.37`	`johnx`	`the n8x0 will have a long road ahead as a hackable linux handheld`
`19:33.43`	`kkrusty`	`is that cheap?`
`19:33.49`	`kkrusty`	`I think it is`
`19:33.54`	`GAN8001`	`Pounds of what? :P`
`19:33.57`	`GAN8001`	`Pig fat?`
`19:34.02`	`johnx`	`kkrusty, probably for the UK`
`19:34.04`	`kkrusty`	`British pounds`
`19:34.09`	`GAN8001`	`;)`
`19:34.13`	`kkrusty`	`:)`
`19:34.19`	`johnx`	`I think it was going for <$200 in the US a bit ago`
`19:34.55`	`kkrusty`	`here they have VAT which is supposed to be about 17% of everything`
`19:36.21`	`GAN8001`	`Europe is so awesomely socialist`
`19:36.28`	`GAN8001`	`I don't know how anybody puts up with it.`
`19:36.35`	`johnx`	`GAN8001, actually a little projector with integrated power supply and beagleboard would be pretty awesome in my book :D`
`19:36.44`	`GAN8001`	`Yeah`
`19:36.50`	`johnx`	`GAN8001, health care?`
`19:36.54`	`GAN8001`	`Stick it onto a baseball cap.`
`19:36.57`	`GAN8001`	`Shitty health care?`
`19:37.00`	`GAN8001`	`Yeah, sounds good. ;)`
`19:37.09`	`GAN8001`	`So the projector is projecting wherever you look.`
`19:37.25`	`johnx`	`blinding everyone you talk to!`
`19:37.31`	`GAN8001`	`Woo`
`19:37.41`	`GAN8001`	`Those new micro projectors probably wouldn't cut it`
`19:37.48`	`GAN8001`	`You need to get an industrial sized one`
`19:37.51`	`GAN8001`	`Work those neck muscles.`
`19:38.11`	`GAN8001`	`You'll look like Barry Bonds in no time at all!`
`19:39.01`	`johnx`	`I was really enjoying not having inherited my family's hereditary back problems...but I guess it wasn't meant to be`
`19:39.10`	`GAN8001`	`I want some retinal projectors.`
`19:39.39`	`johnx`	`ah, did you see the sony prototype things on gizmodo the other day?`
`19:39.52`	`GAN8001`	`Yeah, cool shit isn't it?`
`19:40.04`	`johnx`	`yeah`
`19:40.16`	`GAN8001`	`Mount a projector in my glasses.`
`19:40.19`	`johnx`	`I've been following the whole wearable computer thing for 10+ years now`
`19:40.25`	`johnx`	`finally starting to get close I think :D`
`19:40.43`	`ReKlipz`	`johnx: best way to remove the hildon desktop?`
`19:40.57`	`johnx`	`ReKlipz, easy: don't.`
`19:41.00`	`GAN8001`	`apt-get nuke hildon-desktop`
`19:41.10`	`johnx`	`just don't run it`
`19:41.19`	`ReKlipz`	`that'll work too, :P`
`19:41.24`	`Anunakin`	`haha`
`19:41.38`	`ReKlipz`	`how can i do that?`
`19:41.40`	`*** join/#maemo atlas95 (n=cyril@mlv95-3-88-168-37-51.fbx.proxad.net)`
`19:41.48`	`johnx`	`first, are you booting from SD?`
`19:41.52`	`ReKlipz`	`no`
`19:41.56`	`ReKlipz`	`i can be though`
`19:41.57`	`Anunakin`	`Hey johnx, is any way to close Xomap... and dont crash ?`
`19:42.00`	`johnx`	`are you backed up?`
`19:42.05`	`ReKlipz`	`nothing to back up`
`19:42.07`	`ReKlipz`	`so, yes`
`19:42.25`	`johnx`	`Anunakin, on debian? just kill it`
`19:42.29`	`*** join/#maemo foka (n=foka@124.64.109.125)`
`19:42.34`	`Anunakin`	`hum!`
`19:42.35`	`Anunakin`	`ok`
`19:42.37`	`johnx`	`or /etc/init.d/x-server stop`
`19:42.48`	`johnx`	`and that script will kill it :)`
`19:43.13`	`johnx`	`ReKlipz, you're very likely to need to reflash soon when you start messing around with boot order stuff`
`19:43.41`	`johnx`	`I would do this from SD so you can fall back to booting from flash to fix your mistakes`
`19:43.43`	`ReKlipz`	`i've already reflashed once, so no worries`
`19:43.48`	`*** join/#maemo christefano (n=christef@ppp-69-239-86-229.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net)`
`19:44.27`	`*** join/#maemo j0tt (n=j@unaffiliated/jott)`
`19:44.41`	`Anunakin`	`I have 3 partitions on my microSD, one with files(vfat), debian and other with maemo+kde`
`19:45.02`	`ReKlipz`	`the SD slot, an SDHC slot?`
`19:45.13`	`Anunakin`	`but... my problem ... now is run gnuplot under maxima`
`19:46.18`	`summatusmentis`	`wait, kde can be installed on top of maemo? I thought it needed to be debian?`
`19:46.28`	`ReKlipz`	`kde is a desktop environment`
`19:46.35`	`ReKlipz`	`debian is the linux distro`
`19:46.45`	`ReKlipz`	`hildon is a version of gnome`
`19:46.50`	`ReKlipz`	`sort of...`
`19:46.54`	`GAN8001`	`summatusmentis, look at Penguinbait's deb install`
`19:47.03`	`GAN8001`	`Extension, really, ReKlipz.`
`19:47.05`	`summatusmentis`	`yeah, but I assumed it needed the debian sub system to run on top of`
`19:47.14`	`ReKlipz`	`maemo is debian...`
`19:47.36`	`summatusmentis`	`GAN8001 I've seen it, I assumed it was for pure debian`
`19:47.39`	`johnx`	`maemo is close enough to debian that penguinbait was able to get KDE working with quite a bit of effort`
`19:48.08`	`ReKlipz`	`can i put straight debian on the n810?`
`19:48.11`	`johnx`	`yes`
`19:48.18`	`ReKlipz`	`any disadvantages?`
`19:48.25`	`johnx`	`power management doesn't work as well`
`19:48.47`	`GAN8001`	`Interface isn't well set up for the device`
`19:48.48`	`johnx`	`a little more CLI work to manage wlan`
`19:48.52`	`GAN8001`	`Hardware keys, etc.`
`19:49.09`	`johnx`	`GAN8001, hardware keys work fine in debian now`
`19:49.21`	`GAN8001`	`Not as smoothly as OS2008. :P`
`19:49.30`	`johnx`	`ReKlipz, also, hildon-desktop is actually a nice system`
`19:49.41`	`GAN8001`	`and text input is a royal pain without an N810.`
`19:49.43`	`*** join/#maemo foka_ (n=foka@124.64.106.244)`
`19:50.23`	`ReKlipz`	`johnx, I don't need the window manager`
`19:50.45`	`GAN8001`	`ReKlipz, I really think you're wasting effort trying to dump all the system stuff`
`19:50.50`	`GAN8001`	`Just keep it and build your application.`
`19:50.51`	`johnx`	`ReKlipz, what do you plan to replace it with?`
`19:51.00`	`ReKlipz`	`my own app`
`19:51.09`	`johnx`	`just run your app fullscreen`
`19:51.12`	`*** join/#maemo p\| (n=kvirc@62.13.169.90)`
`19:51.20`	`GAN8001`	`Saves you the trouble of doing complicated setup with each new unit`
`19:51.25`	`ReKlipz`	`i guess so..`
`19:51.27`	`GAN8001`	`just leave it as-is and install the application`
`19:51.43`	`ReKlipz`	`i could just as easilly flash each one with the new binary though... and that'd be that`
`19:52.24`	`johnx`	`matchbox is pretty lightweight`
`19:52.39`	`GAN8001`	`But your wasting time now trying to dump things that really don't need to be dumped.`
`19:52.40`	`johnx`	`ReKlipz, I would look at how penguinbait handles it with KDE`
`19:52.46`	`ReKlipz`	`... ok, you've convinced me`
`19:52.59`	`*** part/#maemo WorkingOnWise (n=WorkingO@97-83-156-31.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com)`
`19:53.14`	`johnx`	`GAN8001, it will save some memory if his app is big enough to have issues running out of memory`
`19:53.50`	`ReKlipz`	`I just don't see the need for running matchbox and the like if it's never gonna be touched`
`19:54.11`	`johnx`	`it all comes down to effort/benefit ratio`
`19:54.29`	`GAN8001`	`Out of interest, how's the code going to be licensed, ReKlipz?`
`19:54.33`	`johnx`	`get your app running first, then see if you need to put in the effort to make matchbox not run`
`19:55.01`	`*** join/#maemo qwerty12_N800 (n=faheem@host-84-9-52-131.dslgb.com)`
`19:55.04`	`ReKlipz`	`GAN8001, honestly, not sure`
`19:55.26`	`ReKlipz`	`we've not really thought about it at all...`
`19:55.28`	`johnx`	`I've been in a similar situation making thin clients into linux web kiosks`
`19:55.38`	`johnx`	`optimize last: you'll be much happier`
`19:55.47`	`ReKlipz`	`sounds like a plan`
`19:55.57`	`ReKlipz`	`ok, how to get usbnet working...`
`19:56.17`	`johnx`	`insmod g_ether.ko && ifup usb0`
`19:56.36`	`ReKlipz`	`oh, and is it just me, or is the usb cable a proprietary connector?`
`19:56.44`	`johnx`	`ReKlipz, it's not`
`19:56.51`	`ReKlipz`	`it looks smaller...`
`19:56.52`	`johnx`	`also, re: usbnet, read here: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howtosetupusbnetworkingdebian/`
`19:56.54`	`LinuxCode`	`mini-usb`
`19:56.54`	`GAN8001`	`It's new`
`19:56.57`	`GAN8001`	`MicroUSB`
`19:57.02`	`LinuxCode`	`or that`
`19:57.02`	`ReKlipz`	`microsub, ok`
`19:57.04`	`Blafasel`	`It's just a stupid f...king connector that noone uses.`
`19:57.05`	`ReKlipz`	`usb`
`19:57.07`	`GAN8001`	`But not proprietary.`
`19:57.13`	`ReKlipz`	`its no smaller than mini usb...`
`19:57.16`	`GAN8001`	`Blafasel, because it's new. . . .`
`19:57.18`	`GAN8001`	`Yes it is`
`19:57.22`	`Blafasel`	`So that you can sell the cable for $$$$ instead of some cents..`
`19:57.25`	`GAN8001`	`It's significantly smaller than MiniUSB`
`19:57.31`	`Blafasel`	`Yeah, but what for?`
`19:57.31`	`LinuxCode`	`yah`
`19:57.36`	`LinuxCode`	`half the size`
`19:57.38`	`GAN8001`	`http://www.ringnokia.com/images/2007/05/27/motorola_razr2_v8img_3995.jpg`
`19:57.57`	`Blafasel`	`Don't tell me that they needed the mm on the device ;)`
`19:57.58`	`LinuxCode`	`Blafasel, a standard usb wouldnt fit on a n810`
`19:58.08`	`qwerty12_N800`	`Nokia recently put out something in a repo to set usbnet via control panel applet.`
`19:58.11`	`GAN8001`	`Blafasel, MUCH smaller, MUCH more durable (significantly more plug/unplug cycles).`
`19:58.13`	`ReKlipz`	`it's half as thing, but 10x as brekable`
`19:58.20`	`Blafasel`	`Mini (or whatever) would have fittet.`
`19:58.30`	`GAN8001`	`Several orders of magnitude more durable than Mini, actually, ReKlipz.`
`19:58.34`	`ReKlipz`	`really?`
`19:58.36`	`GAN8001`	`Yes`
`19:58.38`	`ReKlipz`	`thats good then`
`19:58.39`	`Blafasel`	`And is in use all over the place (cameras, gadgets)`
`19:58.44`	`ReKlipz`	`it looks much more brekable`
`19:59.17`	`GAN8001`	`Blafasel, there was a time nobody used USB`
`19:59.30`	`GAN8001`	`It takes more than 6 months for new standards to get moving in the market place.`
`19:59.30`	`ReKlipz`	`and it wasn't that long ago...`
`19:59.37`	`GAN8001`	`It's a BIG improvement over MiniUSB`
`20:00.22`	`GAN8001`	`Blafasel, cables will get cheaper when economies of scale kick in.`
`20:01.50`	`Blafasel`	`GAN8001: Your points are theoretical imo. You cite "smaller" which I'd counter with insignificant for this device and "more durable" which I'd counter with "See these old mini using devices of mine"`
`20:02.00`	`*** join/#maemo felipec (n=felipec@a91-153-241-202.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`20:02.22`	`Blafasel`	`Well.. I don't like the decision and just cannot see the point. Even their own mobile brand doesn't use it (Had an E51 lately).`
`20:02.34`	`*** join/#maemo NetBlade (n=osku@xdsl-206-183.nblnetworks.fi)`
`20:02.34`	`johnx`	`Blafasel, I think they were trying to save all the room they could, and as for more durable there is a spec somewhere that states the number of plug/un-plug cycles`
`20:02.35`	`GAN8001`	`OK, Blafasel, believe whatever you want to believe, I don't need to convince you. Just check your facts before you spew. :)`
`20:03.02`	`GAN8001`	`Get back to me when you design a mobile device.`
`20:03.37`	`*** join/#maemo christefano (n=christef@ppp-69-239-86-229.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net)`
`20:03.51`	`Blafasel`	`GAN8001: Renewable energy is the future. We should have a solar-based N810. The price and output will catch on with the requirements. But it's def. "better" ;)`
`20:03.53`	`glass`	`miniusb is more common.. thats why i like having them on my devices over microusb`
`20:04.03`	`glass`	`finding a microusb charger is a bitch for example`
`20:04.09`	`Blafasel`	`johnx: Yeah, I don't doubt that the numbers are right.`
`20:04.22`	`Blafasel`	`glass: Thanks for jumping in.`
`20:04.52`	`glass`	`the new nokia smaller charger plug sucks bigtime because it's not durable`
`20:05.24`	`Blafasel`	`That's another point that I'd agree with. Wonder what the plugin cycles are for that tiny pin.`
`20:05.42`	`*** join/#maemo mat (n=mat@igoan/mat)`
`20:05.48`	`*** join/#maemo dougt (n=dougt@c-67-180-89-151.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`20:09.07`	`ReKlipz`	`so, there is 2GB internal flash, and one miniSDHC slot on the outside of the n810?`
`20:09.15`	`GAN8001`	`Right`
`20:09.24`	`GAN8001`	`Plus the 256MB of NAND the rootfs is on.`
`20:10.24`	`puffandstuff`	`I would like to know the average "stratup time" of an application using maemo please`
`20:10.42`	`ReKlipz`	`poop on the NAND flash, go with NOR next time...`
`20:10.52`	`ReKlipz`	`i assume 2GB internal is NAND as well?`
`20:11.14`	`GAN8001`	`It's a soldered on SD card, more or less.`
`20:11.15`	`ReKlipz`	`is that an SD card and is it accessable? (physically?)`
`20:11.31`	`ReKlipz`	`hmm, so it's not upgradable`
`20:11.33`	`LinuxCode`	`GAN800, are you certain ?!?!`
`20:11.36`	`johnx`	`puffandstuff, any app in particular?`
`20:11.38`	`LinuxCode`	`I was sure it was NAND`
`20:12.18`	`ReKlipz`	`SD is nand...`
`20:12.56`	`puffandstuff`	`johnx, i missexplained the purpose, sorry. I would like to know how much is the startup time from pushing power on until displaying the desktop`
`20:13.03`	`johnx`	`ah`
`20:13.04`	`GAN8001`	`30 seconds`
`20:13.09`	`GAN8001`	`But it's an always-on device`
`20:13.09`	`puffandstuff`	`thanks`
`20:13.12`	`LinuxCode`	`ReKlipz, no its not`
`20:13.15`	`GAN8001`	`So the idea is to never turn it off.`
`20:13.53`	`qwerty12_N800`	`That c`
`20:13.58`	`qwerty12_N800`	`soz`
`20:14.03`	`ReKlipz`	`LinuxCode: how do you figure?`
`20:14.14`	`penguinbait`	`with expr usually`
`20:14.19`	`johnx`	`LinuxCode, might want to correct wikipedia then...`
`20:14.21`	`puffandstuff`	`GAN8001, i'm planning to use maemo in automotive`
`20:14.27`	`LinuxCode`	`nand has 2000 writes`
`20:14.42`	`GAN8001`	`puffandstuff, it'll idle for about 12 days doing nothing.`
`20:14.46`	`LinuxCode`	`cant recall..actually I think it was more`
`20:14.48`	`GAN8001`	`No need to power cycle it.`
`20:15.04`	`johnx`	`LinuxCode, more like 10,000 to 100,000 I believe`
`20:15.14`	`johnx`	`then wear leveling helps that quite a bit`
`20:15.29`	`LinuxCode`	`johnx, yah`
`20:15.35`	`GAN8001`	`Though automotive temperatures are hell on batteries.`
`20:15.36`	`LinuxCode`	`standard flash is considerably less`
`20:15.47`	`puffandstuff`	`GAN8001, thanks for the information, as i said we aim to port maemo on other cpu targets targeting automotive industry`
`20:15.51`	`johnx`	`LinuxCode, what is "standard flash"?`
`20:15.58`	`ReKlipz`	`nor is faster than nand`
`20:16.02`	`ReKlipz`	`and more expensive`
`20:16.05`	`GAN8001`	`puffandstuff, then startup time is entirely irrelevant. ;)`
`20:16.07`	`LinuxCode`	`ok so "apparently" that samsung has a nand chip`
`20:16.12`	`GAN8001`	`As it's entirely dependent on the CPU.`
`20:16.20`	`LinuxCode`	`cant be arsed to check the chip specs`
`20:16.20`	`GAN8001`	`. . . and flash memory speed.`
`20:16.22`	`puffandstuff`	`GAN800, not really`
`20:16.33`	`LinuxCode`	`johnx, I cant recall`
`20:16.39`	`LinuxCode`	`it was 10.000 or so`
`20:16.46`	`LinuxCode`	`before you get degradation`
`20:16.46`	`ReKlipz`	`The endurance of NAND flash is much greater than that of NOR flash (typically 1,000,000 cycles vs. 100,000 cycles). (wikipedia)`
`20:16.52`	`johnx`	`LinuxCode, I think you might be a little confused :)`
`20:17.00`	`LinuxCode`	`its been some time before I saw the test specs`
`20:17.02`	`ReKlipz`	`gotta run, back in a few`
`20:17.05`	`LinuxCode`	`johnx, possibly`
`20:17.07`	`GAN8001`	`puffandstuff, honestly, you'd be better off looking at Debian with Hildon/Matchbox or Ubuntu Mobile and Embedded`
`20:17.11`	`puffandstuff`	`GAN800, all the application that we're using actually boots in about 5-7 seconds`
`20:17.21`	`GAN8001`	`"Maemo" doesn't port very well to other hardware at the moment.`
`20:17.45`	`puffandstuff`	`GAN8001, thanks`
`20:18.01`	`LinuxCode`	`Ive got better things to do than argue on the internet anyway`
`20:18.05`	`LinuxCode`	`hehe`
`20:18.11`	`GAN8001`	`What I'm saying, is the startup time of maemo on a 400MHz ARM will have zero resemblance to the startup time of maemo on a 1.3GHz Atom. ;)`
`20:18.35`	`johnx`	`no one's arguing but you LinuxCode :)`
`20:18.43`	`LinuxCode`	`k`
`20:18.45`	`LinuxCode`	`lol`
`20:18.47`	`penguinbait`	`depends it metalayer-crawler is running`
`20:18.59`	`puffandstuff`	`GAN8001, i agree`
`20:19.07`	`LinuxCode`	`goes to do better things`
`20:19.24`	`qwerty12_N800`	`sheet, i just read ke-recv is oss. now come on nokia, we need mce, dsme & bme...`
`20:19.39`	`*** join/#maemo Mousey (n=mprov@dsl093-144-195.sba1.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`20:19.46`	`johnx`	`qwerty12_N800, dsme is pretty thin`
`20:19.52`	`johnx`	`they'll never give you bme though`
`20:20.10`	`qwerty12_N800`	`I can dream! :p`
`20:21.16`	`GAN8001`	`Yeesh, it's like the hour-of-idiocy in here. <_<`
`20:21.34`	`GAN8001`	`mce would be nice.`
`20:21.38`	`qwerty12_N800`	`takes gold`
`20:22.33`	`johnx`	`all I want is little documentation on wifi powersaving through /sys and I'll be happy`
`20:22.51`	`GAN8001`	`Hehe`
`20:22.57`	`GAN8001`	`It's the small wishes that kill you. ;)`
`20:23.16`	`johnx`	`I think Nokia might actually be able to do that though`
`20:23.54`	`johnx`	`it's a public interface, and the code that controls it is in cx3110x`
`20:23.56`	`GAN8001`	`You'd think Nokia could add a little 12/24 hour switch in the settings, too`
`20:23.56`	`qwerty12_N800`	`really really wants docs on /dev/mtd1 ;)`
`20:24.00`	`GAN8001`	`But you know how it is. :P`
`20:24.35`	`summatusmentis`	`penguinbait's KDE isn't in the extra's repo, is it?`
`20:25.12`	`johnx`	`summatusmentis, nope, it's on internettablettalk.com/forums`
`20:25.25`	`qwerty12_N800`	`I was reading that wiki page on editing the locales, i'm sure it would work but I have no need for 24h.`
`20:25.41`	`summatusmentis`	`johnx: yep, I'm looking at that page`
`20:26.18`	`*** join/#maemo t_s_o (n=tso@129.84-49-131.nextgentel.com)`
`20:26.23`	`ReKlipz`	`the tech specs for the n810 are confusing, is it telling me that i can use a microsd card directly, or that I can, but only with a minisd adapter (if thats the case, then why put it on there?)`
`20:26.52`	`*** join/#maemo NetBlade_ (n=osku@xdsl-206-183.nblnetworks.fi)`
`20:27.11`	`johnx`	`only with a mini-sd adapter`
`20:27.25`	`johnx`	`so that people realize that adapters exist`
`20:27.31`	`ReKlipz`	`ok, so in reality i need a minisd card`
`20:27.39`	`ReKlipz`	`or a micro, but will need an adapter`
`20:27.43`	`johnx`	`yes`
`20:27.51`	`johnx`	`but lots of micros come with mini and full adapters`
`20:28.50`	`*** join/#maemo krau (n=cktakaha@pc-a80090.wlan.inet.fi)`
`20:30.29`	`qwerty12_N800`	`just found repo with maemo boost libraries, w00t, time to start running a lot of dpkg's tommorow...`
`20:31.15`	`summatusmentis`	`johnx: and the deb that he provides to clone it, should close my entire system to SD ?`
`20:31.25`	`summatusmentis`	`(before installing kde)`
`20:31.26`	`johnx`	`I have no experience with that`
`20:31.34`	`penguinbait`	`whats up sum?`
`20:31.54`	`summatusmentis`	`your .deb that you provide to clone my rootfs should clone everything to SD`
`20:32.06`	`summatusmentis`	`and then I can install KDE on top of that`
`20:32.09`	`penguinbait`	`it will clone running flash to SD`
`20:32.15`	`summatusmentis`	`right`
`20:32.16`	`penguinbait`	`yes everything`
`20:32.39`	`*** join/#maemo skibur (n=skibur@adsl-66-142-66-43.dsl.snantx.swbell.net)`
`20:32.43`	`summatusmentis`	`am I reading the KDE thread right? will it fail if I've already installed third party stuff?`
`20:32.59`	`summatusmentis`	`or anything beyond factory settings`
`20:33.12`	`penguinbait`	`if you have 2GB card, and lots of software installed the KDE installer will fail`
`20:33.29`	`summatusmentis`	`well, not lots, but some`
`20:33.53`	`penguinbait`	`after clone is complete you need like 1350MB free to install KDE`
`20:34.50`	`penguinbait`	`you could clone it and remove software on the cloned partition if it wont fit, it will still all be available if you bot to flash`
`20:35.06`	`summatusmentis`	`oh, ok`
`20:37.12`	`*** join/#maemo mazzen (n=mortel@u30-237.dsl.vianetworks.de)`
`20:38.17`	`*** join/#maemo alex-weej (n=alex@cpc1-acto9-0-0-cust931.brnt.cable.ntl.com)`
`20:42.20`	`qwerty12_N800`	`Well, remember me asking for dsp patch? I found it... http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2008-January/013604.html .I'll add it into my kernel tommorow...`
`20:45.11`	`GAN8001`	`qwerty12_N800's frankenkernel`
`20:46.11`	`*** join/#maemo Vudentz_ (n=dentz@pc-a80154.wlan.inet.fi)`
`20:46.11`	`skibur`	`Is Diablo any good?`
`20:46.30`	`qwerty12_N800`	`Browser's worse`
`20:46.59`	`qwerty12_N800`	`is seriously tempted to grab Bundyo's opera for os2008`
`20:47.17`	`*** join/#maemo jegp (n=jegp@200.26.178.201)`
`20:47.28`	`Veggen`	`qwerty: worse than current OS2008 browser?`
`20:47.33`	`summatusmentis`	`does the map app that comes factory installled store it's map data on the internal sd card?`
`20:47.52`	`GAN8001`	`Keep in mind, it's still very beta.`
`20:48.01`	`GAN8001`	`The browser isn't done being worked on.`
`20:48.13`	`GAN8001`	`Yes, summatusmentis.`
`20:48.32`	`qwerty12_N800`	`browserd idea sucks though. that's still probably gonna be in final`
`20:48.38`	`GAN8001`	`skibur, Diablo is a big improvement over Chinook for what it is.`
`20:48.41`	`qwerty12_N800`	`Veggen, yes atm`
`20:48.54`	`GAN8001`	`qwerty12_N800, do you really think you're qualified to decide that. :P`
`20:49.13`	`Veggen`	`hmm. I'll resist the temptation to do an unofficial upgrade, then.`
`20:49.19`	`qwerty12_N800`	`I haven't decided anything, it's what I think.`
`20:49.20`	`GAN8001`	`But, more seriously, I haven't actually seen an explanation of the new implementation, so where are you getting your info?`
`20:49.58`	`fysa`	`he looked?`
`20:50.08`	`GAN8001`	`Where?`
`20:50.10`	`fysa`	`I take qwerty12_N800's word.`
`20:50.12`	`GAN8001`	`There's nowhere TO look.`
`20:50.24`	`GAN8001`	`It's not documented publicly yet.`
`20:50.44`	`skibur`	`some dude claims that he/she is runing it`
`20:50.53`	`GAN8001`	`Lots of people are running it`
`20:51.02`	`skibur`	`link?`
`20:51.02`	`GAN8001`	`I'm running it, qwerty12_N800 is running it`
`20:51.07`	`GAN8001`	`To?`
`20:51.20`	`GAN8001`	`You gotta figure out the password to the repo yourself.`
`20:51.45`	`skibur`	`Diablo explanation`
`20:51.53`	`GAN8001`	`What explanation? How to run it?`
`20:52.11`	`skibur`	`well the improvements and add ons etc..`
`20:52.26`	`summatusmentis`	`penguinbait: I'm getting an "Installation file corrupted" for install-tools.deb`
`20:52.29`	`qwerty12_N800`	`check the bunch of screenies i made`
`20:52.34`	`GAN8001`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Tablet_OS#Diablo`
`20:52.40`	`skibur`	`thanks`
`20:52.58`	`Blafasel`	`qwerty12_N800: Any link to those pictures?`
`20:53.29`	`qwerty12_N800`	`They are in that massive diablo thread somewhere...`
`20:53.30`	`GAN8001`	`qwerty12_N800, seriously, where's your browserd implementation documentation?`
`20:54.22`	`skibur`	`SSU <---- Nice!`
`20:54.32`	`qwerty12_N800`	`What documentation do I need? i haven't gone into technical stuff to say it sucks. i know it crashes more and uses more memory`
`20:55.37`	`*** join/#maemo benh (n=benh@147.17.168.202-static.velocitynet.com.au)`
`20:55.48`	`GAN8001`	`That doesn't mean the _idea_ sucks, though. . . .`
`20:55.57`	`GAN8001`	`That just means the current implementation is buggy. :\`
`20:56.12`	`summatusmentis`	`GAN8001: :-/ I had one of the boxwave screen protectors on my 3200, and I sucked hard at putting it on :)`
`20:56.29`	`GAN8001`	`I have a guide for application somewhere on itT, summatusmentis.`
`20:57.09`	`GAN8001`	`Here: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=117031&postcount=18`
`20:58.42`	`qwerty12_N800`	`is honoured to have a thread named after me : http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20483`
`20:59.12`	`GAN8001`	`Extrapolating that the concept of browserd sucks from some memory consumption and crash data on a pre-release product doesn't make a lot of sense. Especially lacking a complete understanding of why it was implemented or what it does. ;)`
`20:59.50`	`skibur`	`sounds great`
`20:59.59`	`skibur`	`need to find where to start`
`21:00.11`	`qwerty12_N800`	`finding the password ;)`
`21:00.27`	`qwerty12_N800`	`is the master of that task`
`21:00.28`	`summatusmentis`	`oh god, that sounds like so much work :)`
`21:00.36`	`summatusmentis`	`GAN8001: ^`
`21:00.43`	`skibur`	`:)`
`21:00.43`	`GAN8001`	`It's not that bad`
`21:00.46`	`GAN8001`	`and it's a one-off deal`
`21:00.51`	`GAN8001`	`You only need to apply it once`
`21:00.56`	`summatusmentis`	`right`
`21:01.09`	`GAN8001`	`and the results are amazing. ;)`
`21:01.19`	`*** join/#maemo kxto (n=kx@114.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es)`
`21:01.25`	`GAN8001`	`qwerty12_N800, did you ever successfully get to 21-4?`
`21:01.34`	`qwerty12_N800`	`Yeah, reflashed`
`21:02.38`	`skibur`	`Here it is????? ---> http://mariusv.wordpress.com/2008/05/07/a-pleasant-surprise/`
`21:02.41`	`qwerty12_N800`	`I keep flashing to the first diablo repo I have archived as it has me favourite tool ftd`
`21:03.00`	`GAN8001`	`Wonder what caused the loop`
`21:03.32`	`GAN8001`	`skibur, that's after you get the password.`
`21:03.38`	`puffandstuff`	`too confused ! is ubuntu mobile Open Source / Free ? does it comme with SDK ?`
`21:04.11`	`GAN8001`	`puffandstuff, it's free and opensource`
`21:04.25`	`GAN8001`	`There's no cross compiling like for maemo, as it's just straight x86`
`21:04.36`	`puffandstuff`	`GAN8001, many thanks`
`21:04.45`	`qwerty12_N800`	`If you build the diablo version of apt, you don't need the password.`
`21:04.47`	`skibur`	`o ok`
`21:04.48`	`skibur`	`:(`
`21:04.53`	`*** join/#maemo Mousey (n=mprov@dsl093-144-195.sba1.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`21:04.59`	`qwerty12_N800`	`built`
`21:05.10`	`GAN8001`	`puffandstuff, the reason I recommend that or Debian + Matchbox/Hildon is because all the important non-hardware-specfic parts of maemo are in them.`
`21:05.26`	`skibur`	`dpm`
`21:05.38`	`puffandstuff`	`GAN8001, yes`
`21:05.42`	`skibur`	`don't have time to built`
`21:05.46`	`skibur`	`moves on`
`21:06.16`	`GAN8001`	`Ubuntu Mobile is still gearing up, really.`
`21:06.23`	`GAN8001`	`Targeted at the MIDs.`
`21:06.31`	`GAN8001`	`puffandstuff, #ubuntu-mobile`
`21:06.48`	`GAN8001`	`skibur, it's mostly just bug fixes at the moment`
`21:06.57`	`GAN8001`	`Really better off waiting for the final. ;)`
`21:07.25`	`skibur`	`true`
`21:07.30`	`crashanddie`	`same as with Diablo :P`
`21:07.51`	`skibur`	`lol just very curious :P`
`21:07.57`	`Blafasel`	`I'm interested in using ubuntu mobile on the eeePC. The screenshots were quite nice.`
`21:08.13`	`qwerty12_N800`	`was really glad to "beta test", means i got some internal nokia progs`
`21:08.16`	`GAN8001`	`Hrm, I wanted to bug crashanddie about something but now I can't remember what. . . . :\`
`21:08.43`	`qwerty12_N800`	`plumbing problems?`
`21:08.46`	`qwerty12_N800`	`runs`
`21:08.53`	`*** join/#maemo Disconnect (n=nnndis@sigkill.net)`
`21:09.04`	`crashanddie`	`GAN8001, hmm?`
`21:09.14`	`GAN8001`	`I don't remember. :P`
`21:09.32`	`crashanddie`	`Well you're bugging me anyhow now that you've said that`
`21:09.35`	`crashanddie`	`so I'd say...`
`21:09.38`	`crashanddie`	`MISSION ACCOMPLISHED`
`21:10.20`	`GAN8001`	`Woo!`
`21:10.58`	`crashanddie`	`GAN8001, last thing we talked about was my ISP, FiOS, all that`
`21:11.04`	`ReKlipz`	`ok, how to boot from sd card?`
`21:11.21`	`ricko73`	`wishes FiOS was available here`
`21:11.21`	`GAN8001`	`Yeah, it was something maemo-related.`
`21:11.29`	`Saviq`	`ReKlipz: google`
`21:11.41`	`ReKlipz`	`:) am`
`21:11.41`	`GAN8001`	`Ship google your N810`
`21:11.41`	`GAN8001`	`They'll set it up for you. :P`
`21:11.43`	`qwerty12_N800`	`crashanddie, You get FiOS in France?`
`21:11.50`	`crashanddie`	`qwerty12_N800, sure`
`21:11.52`	`GAN8001`	`http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8631`
`21:12.35`	`ricko73`	`we can get 16M/2M cable internet (for US$75/mo)`
`21:12.40`	`GAN8001`	`ReKlipz ^`
`21:12.46`	`qwerty12_N800`	`crashanddie, Man, we don't afaik :( (btw, how long before you move here) :)`
`21:12.46`	`crashanddie`	`GAN8001, or maybe microb ?`
`21:13.06`	`crashanddie`	`qwerty12_N800, I should be moving begin august`
`21:13.11`	`GAN8001`	`Hrm, maybe`
`21:13.23`	`GAN8001`	`crashanddie, you were having trouble with the connecting bouncing?`
`21:13.48`	`crashanddie`	`GAN8001, well, the browser takes it time, yeah`
`21:13.54`	`GAN8001`	`Yeah, that was it.`
`21:14.14`	`GAN8001`	`I asked timeless about it, he thought it could be DNS, but didn't know offhand`
`21:14.19`	`GAN8001`	`I never actually got an answer`
`21:14.29`	`GAN8001`	`So I'm not sure why I thought I needed to talk to you. :P`
`21:15.05`	`*** join/#maemo greentux_ (n=lemke@ip-77-24-220-113.web.vodafone.de)`
`21:15.12`	`GAN8001`	`may have been running over the people experiencing it in his head when he asked.`
`21:15.21`	`qwerty12_N800`	`My N800 does that when it's low on memory`
`21:15.23`	`crashanddie`	`qwerty12_N800, I'm currently planning a few trips to Liverpool, Cardiff, Bristol, Birmingham, London, see what I like most, and what I'll be able to afford`
`21:15.51`	`qwerty12_N800`	`crashanddie, Cool! (but you know London is King ;) :p)`
`21:16.00`	`crashanddie`	`Yeah, but London is big, and expensive`
`21:16.13`	`qwerty12_N800`	`Btw, why not Manchester?`
`21:16.14`	`qwerty12_N800`	`ah`
`21:16.20`	`crashanddie`	`Gunchester ? Nha`
`21:16.55`	`crashanddie`	`I mean, I'm just a junior dev, and I'd rather not get caught up in a city where 60% of my wage goes into a crappy flat`
`21:17.24`	`qwerty12_N800`	`Hehe, I feel at home in Manchester due to yorkshire roots but I <3 london`
`21:17.27`	`qwerty12_N800`	`eek`
`21:17.28`	`summatusmentis`	`where are Documents, Videos, etc. stored? what path?`
`21:17.40`	`crashanddie`	`summatusmentis, /home/user/`
`21:17.57`	`crashanddie`	`summatusmentis, /home/user/MyDocs`
`21:17.59`	`GAN8001`	`<PROTECTED>`
`21:18.09`	`crashanddie`	`ctrl + h ftw`
`21:20.16`	`GAN8001`	`wonders how LinuxTag is going.`
`21:22.34`	`ReKlipz`	`so, why can't i do things like sudo ifconfig as "user"?`
`21:23.05`	`skibur`	`qwerty lol ----> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=180084&postcount=232 HOLY **** Program`
`21:23.07`	`skibur`	`:P`
`21:23.12`	`summatusmentis`	`what do you guys use for IRC on the tablets?`
`21:23.53`	`GAN800`	`xchat`
`21:23.55`	`crashanddie`	`xchat`
`21:24.02`	`Johnny5`	`ssh into a box and run irssi/bitchx/whatever else you want :)`
`21:24.21`	`summatusmentis`	`Johnny5: I'm considering it, but I need to setup krb5 auth for that first`
`21:24.26`	`GAN800`	`Console stuff is a pain on thr tablets.`
`21:24.40`	`summatusmentis`	`even w/ the keyboard?`
`21:24.43`	`GAN800`	`xchat is much better suited.`
`21:24.51`	`*** join/#maemo DaniloCesar (n=DaniloCe@lapis-ap.inf.ufpr.br)`
`21:24.56`	`crashanddie`	`GAN800, I just noticed something... You're General Antilles, right ?`
`21:25.03`	`GAN800`	`I have less experience with the N810`
`21:25.14`	`GAN800`	`Yeah, crashanddie`
`21:25.17`	`*** join/#maemo qwerty12_N800 (n=faheem@host-84-9-53-199.dslgb.com)`
`21:25.21`	`crashanddie`	`hmm`
`21:25.22`	`crashanddie`	`ok`
`21:25.26`	`summatusmentis`	`I need to remap my keyboard too, I keep thinking the bottom left Fn key is a shift`
`21:25.40`	`summatusmentis`	`also, I need to find a key to map tab too`
`21:25.42`	`summatusmentis`	`to*`
`21:25.42`	`GAN800`	`GeneralAntillesN800 is a little long`
`21:25.54`	`summatusmentis`	`I disagree`
`21:26.01`	`summatusmentis`	`long nicks ftw`
`21:26.03`	`skibur`	`<PROTECTED>`
`21:26.28`	`Johnny5`	`OpenSSH on the tablet can use keys. Just use publickey auth`
`21:26.38`	`*** join/#maemo shackan (n=frob@host133-86-dynamic.22-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)`
`21:27.15`	`CrashandDie`	`thinks his n810 battery is dying`
`21:27.17`	`*** join/#maemo jpetersen (n=petersen@xdsl-81-173-148-14.netcologne.de)`
`21:27.46`	`summatusmentis`	`Johnny5: I know it can, but the place I'm ssh'ing into likes krb5`
`21:27.47`	`CrashandDie`	`It just went from 3hours left, to "OMG RED ALERT Please recharge" in about 10 minutes`
`21:27.56`	`Johnny5`	`Gotcha`
`21:28.20`	`GAN800`	`Did you reboot?`
`21:28.41`	`CrashandDie`	`nope`
`21:28.48`	`summatusmentis`	`I've got krb5 installed, just haven't done anything to it yet`
`21:28.53`	`CrashandDie`	`just been testing out an app I wrote`
`21:29.06`	`CrashandDie`	`so either this app drains battery`
`21:29.16`	`GAN800`	`Well, 3 hours was probably at 165MHz`
`21:29.31`	`GAN800`	`Then it kicks up to 400MHz and boom.`
`21:29.43`	`CrashandDie`	`It underclocks when idle ?`
`21:30.07`	`GAN800`	`It basically turns off when idle`
`21:30.11`	`CrashandDie`	`ok`
`21:30.16`	`CrashandDie`	`Well, this app is kinda memory intensive`
`21:30.21`	`CrashandDie`	`and CPU intensive`
`21:30.34`	`GAN800`	`ARM/OMAP powersaving is some crazy stuff.`
`21:30.45`	`GAN800`	`But it's variable`
`21:30.46`	`CrashandDie`	`XML validating/parsing/constructing ftw`
`21:30.57`	`GAN800`	`So battery usage is all over the map.`
`21:31.14`	`CrashandDie`	`like pretty much all the mobile devices out there`
`21:31.26`	`GAN800`	`Except worse.`
`21:31.46`	`GAN800`	`ceiling is a lot higher for us.`
`21:32.00`	`CrashandDie`	`Well, for any mobile device, I look upon the battery manager as something to warn me when it's going to die`
`21:32.04`	`*** join/#maemo mazzen (n=mortel@u30-237.dsl.vianetworks.de)`
`21:32.09`	`CrashandDie`	`not exactly "oh cool, I still have 3hours and 13 minutes left"`
`21:32.31`	`GAN800`	`Yeah, small lion level detection is a little hard`
`21:32.40`	`GAN800`	`voltage is so variable with load`
`21:32.53`	`CrashandDie`	`true`
`21:33.09`	`GAN800`	`and Nokia's worse than most (their mobiles, too)`
`21:33.11`	`CrashandDie`	`I remember an old Nokia, when going into the hidden menu, you could see the current battery voltage output`
`21:33.30`	`CrashandDie`	`current as in now, not electrical`
`21:34.01`	`GAN800`	`You can get the values from retu`
`21:34.15`	`GAN800`	`There's an app on nitapps.com`
`21:34.25`	`GAN800`	`For percentage anyway`
`21:34.26`	`CrashandDie`	`and when it was at something like 2.96v, you'd have 3 bars on your battery... at 2.86v, you'd have about 10 seconds to plug it in`
`21:34.36`	`GAN800`	`There's another one with more values.`
`21:34.53`	`GAN800`	`Hehe`
`21:35.01`	`skibur`	`I will continue with slackware on the N800`
`21:35.26`	`NullM0dem`	`slack on n800?`
`21:35.45`	`NullM0dem`	`wakes up`
`21:36.21`	`skibur`	`is just a side project for me`
`21:36.51`	`NullM0dem`	`me too though i do not have much time for it`
`21:36.52`	`skibur`	`just reading about embedded systems and slackware`
`21:37.04`	`*** join/#maemo b0unc3_ (n=b0unc3@host-84-223-153-91.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)`
`21:37.05`	`NullM0dem`	`armedslack?`
`21:37.09`	`skibur`	`yeah`
`21:37.52`	`skibur`	`will It be done you ask? nah, but I'm learning on the way. who knows, it just might come true. :)`
`21:37.54`	`CrashandDie`	`isn't slackware source-based ?`
`21:38.00`	`NullM0dem`	`skibur: where were you reading about slack?`
`21:38.14`	`NullM0dem`	`CrashandDie: yes slack is source based`
`21:38.18`	`\|\|cw`	`CrashandDie: not any more so than anything else`
`21:38.29`	`CrashandDie`	`hmm`
`21:38.31`	`CrashandDie`	`luckily`
`21:38.32`	`\|\|cw`	`slack has binary packages`
`21:38.40`	`*** join/#maemo qwerty12_N800 (n=faheem@host-84-9-52-194.dslgb.com)`
`21:38.43`	`NullM0dem`	`true, alot of packages are precompiled`
`21:38.43`	`\|\|cw`	`just doens't have a lot of them`
`21:38.48`	`CrashandDie`	`Imagine compiling Xorg on the NIT... \o/`
`21:38.49`	`NullM0dem`	`but just the basics`
`21:38.50`	`*** join/#maemo unixSnob_ (n=jgombos@72-60-221-77.area4.spcsdns.net)`
`21:38.53`	`NullM0dem`	`no way`
`21:39.11`	`\|\|cw`	`why not, we used to compile everything on 486's`
`21:39.15`	`NullM0dem`	`I wish directFB could be used, though i do not know enough about it`
`21:39.28`	`CrashandDie`	`"Why d'you get yourself a new Nokia ? Wasn't the other one like 2 months old ?" "Yeah, but it's still compiling OpenOffice"`
`21:39.32`	`\|\|cw`	`remeber when a kernel compile would take a full day?`
`21:39.42`	`CrashandDie`	`\|\|cw, shrug`
`21:39.55`	`CrashandDie`	`djeezus`
`21:40.03`	`CrashandDie`	`and say I'm pissed cuz my app takes about 2 minutes to compile :(`
`21:40.41`	`NullM0dem`	`LFS is fun`
`21:40.42`	`NullM0dem`	`:P`
`21:40.45`	`*** join/#maemo tchan (n=tchan@lunar-linux/developer/tchan)`
`21:40.51`	`GAN800`	`You can, NullM0dem`
`21:41.02`	`CrashandDie`	`http://slexy.org/view/s20oKwkQ8g \o/`
`21:41.05`	`GAN800`	`Debian does it.`
`21:41.19`	`qwerty12_N800`	`Via fanoush tools iirc`
`21:41.31`	`qwerty12_N800`	`Took me ages to setup :/`
`21:41.48`	`NullM0dem`	`GAN800: directfb? from http://www.directfb.org ?`
`21:41.49`	`qwerty12_N800`	`But it means I can do it in maemo`
`21:42.07`	`mazzen`	`i'm running openssh server on my n810, but i cann't connect the device. i googled and noticed, that i'm not the only one who has this problem, but unfortunately i didn't find a solution. does anyone knows something about it?`
`21:42.13`	`skibur`	`NullM0dem ---> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=185452`
`21:42.27`	`*** join/#maemo atlas95_ (n=cyril@mlv95-3-88-168-37-51.fbx.proxad.net)`
`21:42.28`	`CrashandDie`	`mazzen, can't connect isn't really an error message`
`21:42.40`	`CrashandDie`	`mazzen, I have no problem whatsoever with openssh server on the IT`
`21:42.54`	`CrashandDie`	`mazzen, can you run a port scanner, stuff like that ?`
`21:43.37`	`mazzen`	`CrashandDie: dude you are right, sry. i get "no route to host", when i try to connect the device from my computer`
`21:44.57`	`CrashandDie`	`http://slexy.org/view/s20RbikYEI :D 1m57s :D`
`21:45.00`	`summatusmentis`	`what's the user username?`
`21:45.14`	`CrashandDie`	`summatusmentis, user ?`
`21:45.51`	`*** join/#maemo dougt (n=dougt@c-67-180-89-151.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`21:46.17`	`CrashandDie`	`btw, remember me, some time, to send a box of chocolates or a six pack to Niels, the Garage maintainer`
`21:47.45`	`summatusmentis`	`CrashandDie: ok, then how do I ssh in as user?`
`21:47.57`	`CrashandDie`	`summatusmentis, you can't, iirc`
`21:48.14`	`ReKlipz`	`which repo do i need for usbnet?`
`21:48.23`	`GAN800`	`Just, fwiw, he's X-Fade here, CrashandDie`
`21:48.36`	`CrashandDie`	`GAN800, good to know`
`21:49.19`	`CrashandDie`	`summatusmentis, I never tried using a cert-based authentication on the user account, I only SSH into the root account of the NIT`
`21:49.48`	`CrashandDie`	`summatusmentis, but IIRC, you can't set a password on the user account, hence, no ssh login`
`21:49.58`	`summatusmentis`	`CrashandDie: do you know why you can't? is it because there's no password set?`
`21:50.06`	`GAN800`	`Keep an eye out for dneary (new docmaster), and andre and guenther (new bugmasters), too.`
`21:50.52`	`CrashandDie`	`X-Fade, you'll have to email me your home address so I can get you a present`
`21:50.52`	`andre___`	`looks up`
`21:51.14`	`GAN800`	`looks up.`
`21:51.19`	`GAN800`	`screams.`
`21:51.33`	`CrashandDie`	`GAN800, told you you should've taken care of those spiderwebs`
`21:51.50`	`GAN800`	`andre___, how's LinuxTag`
`21:51.58`	`CrashandDie`	`anyway, back to coding`
`21:52.10`	`andre___`	`i'm not there yet - tomorrow :)`
`21:52.19`	`andre___`	`just for one day`
`21:52.44`	`andre___`	`could convince my teacher today that i'm allowed to miss his lesson tomorrow ;-)`
`21:53.00`	`ReKlipz`	`would someone mind explaining to me the partition structure of the n810?`
`21:53.10`	`summatusmentis`	`CrashandDie: you can set a passwd for user if you're root`
`21:53.14`	`CrashandDie`	`btw, anyone in here use doxygen with graphviz/dot ?`
`21:53.15`	`summatusmentis`	`will this break things?`
`21:53.35`	`CrashandDie`	`summatusmentis, I dunno, wouldn't try it, considering the limited helpfulness`
`21:53.51`	`*** join/#maemo hfwilke (n=hwilke_@gateway.GRAYINSCO.COM)`
`21:53.53`	`summatusmentis`	`erm.... already did :)`
`21:54.26`	`CrashandDie`	`summatusmentis, logging in as user would require you to sudo gainroot to become root, logging in as root would require you to su user to become user... So real difference in the end`
`21:54.32`	`CrashandDie`	`so no real**`
`21:55.28`	`summatusmentis`	`I do things via command line a decent amount, w/out needing root`
`21:55.42`	`summatusmentis`	`scp, etc.`
`21:55.53`	`CrashandDie`	`summatusmentis, try cert based approach, tell me if it works`
`21:56.32`	`*** join/#maemo puffandstuff (n=puffands@lns-bzn-43-82-249-178-227.adsl.proxad.net)`
`22:02.06`	`ReKlipz`	`what is a FIASCO image?`
`22:04.22`	`GAN800`	`The firmware image.`
`22:04.48`	`CrashandDie`	`http://www.co.washington.or.us/sheriff/media/photos/carhse.jpg`
`22:04.53`	`CrashandDie`	`that's a fiasco image`
`22:05.29`	`ReKlipz`	`so..., it doesn't contain the kernel, or anything pertaining to the os really`
`22:06.11`	`GAN800`	`It contains everything`
`22:06.29`	`GAN800`	`kernel, NOLO, initfs, rootfs`
`22:07.04`	`ReKlipz`	`mmk, so, if, say, I wanted to put straight up debian on my n810, how would i go about that?`
`22:07.19`	`ReKlipz`	`putting the loader on an sd card, and the installing?`
`22:07.44`	`GAN800`	`untar the tar image onto a card.`
`22:07.56`	`GAN800`	`flash fanoush's initfs`
`22:08.16`	`ReKlipz`	`well, im not actually going to do it, i just want to learn more about what the underlying parts are`
`22:08.33`	`*** part/#maemo jukey (n=jukey@BAA199e.baa.pppool.de)`
`22:09.55`	`*** join/#maemo beford (n=beford@190.68.2.95)`
`22:10.34`	`ReKlipz`	`so, initfs, rootfs, are partitions on the internal 2GB mem?`
`22:11.25`	`GAN800`	`No.`
`22:12.01`	`GAN800`	`Forget the 2GB, it's just an SD card they soldered on. Everything is on the 256MB internal flash.`
`22:12.13`	`ReKlipz`	`ok`
`22:12.21`	`ReKlipz`	`so, it's on the 256mb internal flash`
`22:13.00`	`ReKlipz`	`what is NOLO?`
`22:13.07`	`GAN800`	`bootloader`
`22:13.14`	`GAN800`	`NOkia LOader`
`22:13.51`	`ReKlipz`	`mmk, and this is placed in at the beginning of the 256mb flash?`
`22:14.36`	`ReKlipz`	`wait, it seems X-Loader is first...`
`22:14.47`	`GAN800`	`pressumably, though I haven't bothered to confirm that.`
`22:15.26`	`ReKlipz`	`mmk, so, xloader, noloader, and the secondary loader are all bootloaders...`
`22:15.31`	`ReKlipz`	`or part of the booting stage`
`22:15.44`	`ReKlipz`	`the initfs and rootfs reside on the 256mb internal flash as well`
`22:16.23`	`ReKlipz`	`as for what is actually on them, well, that will have to wait for another day (tomorrow, :p). I assume the initfs is essentially the equiv of grub on the MBR of an hdd`
`22:17.33`	`CrashandDie`	`ReKlipz, erhm... There's initfs on hdds too :P`
`22:18.22`	`CrashandDie`	`erhm`
`22:18.23`	`CrashandDie`	`scrap that`
`22:19.01`	`ReKlipz`	`initrd?`
`22:19.17`	`ReKlipz`	`gotta run to class, hopefully i will have it figured out by tomorrow`
`22:19.20`	`CrashandDie`	`yeah, was confused for a while`
`22:27.03`	`*** join/#maemo vivia (n=vivia@server.amsn-project.net)`
`22:28.15`	`vivia`	`Hello everyone... I am having SERIOUS issues with my N810 discount code - mainly the spanish online store is to blame, but I'm tired of calling them, any place on maemo.org where I can get some help?`
`22:29.06`	`*** join/#maemo MangoFusion_ (n=jamesu@host81-152-69-233.range81-152.btcentralplus.com)`
`22:29.54`	`*** join/#maemo BabelO (n=Fabrice@lun34-2-82-238-28-28.fbx.proxad.net)`
`22:30.53`	`summatusmentis`	`CrashandDie: fwiw, running 'passwd user' as root allows you to set the user password, which you can then use to ssh into as user`
`22:31.07`	`CrashandDie`	`summatusmentis, reboot ?`
`22:31.29`	`summatusmentis`	`yep, already did, nothing seems to be broken`
`22:31.37`	`CrashandDie`	`fair enough`
`22:32.05`	`summatusmentis`	`or rather, I haven't run into anything that is broken yet :)`
`22:33.15`	`summatusmentis`	`is the camera on the n810 used for anything?`
`22:34.20`	`CrashandDie`	`excepted taking pictures and webcam ?`
`22:34.33`	`summatusmentis`	`well, like, skype doesn't use it`
`22:34.34`	`lopz`	`re`
`22:34.45`	`summatusmentis`	`so what is the webcam compat w/?`
`22:36.25`	`beford`	`You can use it with gizmo`
`22:36.57`	`beford`	`SIP + h.323`
`22:37.03`	`summatusmentis`	`gizmo is... another SIP app?`
`22:37.44`	`*** join/#maemo b0unc3_ (n=b0unc3@host-84-223-137-107.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)`
`22:37.46`	`CrashandDie`	`http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=8XExv3goeAI&feature=related`
`22:37.47`	`beford`	`gizmo is jabber I think`
`22:38.02`	`Saviq`	`it's based on xmpp, yes`
`22:39.19`	`summatusmentis`	`oh, so for things like Google talk, for instance`
`22:39.35`	`*** join/#maemo lmoura (n=lauro@189.70.97.225)`
`22:39.42`	`beford`	`Google Talk is jabber too, but the current client doesn't support Video talk`
`22:40.16`	`beford`	`I read somewhere that Google will be probably releasing a new client with Video support`
`22:42.03`	`summatusmentis`	`but could one use gizmo for Google Talk video?`
`22:45.41`	`*** join/#maemo Relate (n=dieb@unaffiliated/relate)`
`22:49.59`	`*** join/#maemo aloisiojr (n=aloisio@200.184.118.132)`
`22:50.06`	`GAN8001`	`Gizmo works Gizmo-to-Gizmo for tablet-to-PC`
`22:50.13`	`GAN8001`	`summatusmentis, it's an open alternative to Skype`
`22:50.15`	`GAN8001`	`Very nice`
`22:50.24`	`GAN8001`	`works with the built-in SIP client (no video, though)`
`22:53.19`	`*** join/#maemo vcgomes (n=Vinicius@200.184.118.132)`
`22:53.48`	`Robot101`	`gizmo uses xmpp for chat, and sip for calling`
`22:53.49`	`Robot101`	`its kinda weird`
`22:57.03`	`GAN8001`	`But nice, because you don't need to the stupid proprietary client.`
`22:58.20`	`summatusmentis`	`I guess that's true... I just installed the stupid proprietary client`
`22:59.43`	`beford`	`lol`
`22:59.58`	`GAN8001`	`I always recommend Gizmo over Skype if your contacts aren't already all using Skype.`
`23:00.09`	`GAN8001`	`Especially on the tablet, as you can use rtcomm`
`23:00.22`	`summatusmentis`	`I'm not really using any of it`
`23:00.32`	`beford`	`The only way to do video is with the proprietary client I believe`
`23:00.43`	`summatusmentis`	`I've got one skype client, and it's my family(for when I'm at school, I'm at my parents house for the summer)`
`23:01.02`	`summatusmentis`	`s/client/contact/`
`23:01.19`	`summatusmentis`	`the proprietary client doesn't do video either`
`23:01.24`	`beford`	`it does`
`23:01.33`	`GAN8001`	`To the Gizmo 4 beta`
`23:01.35`	`GAN8001`	`For Windows`
`23:01.38`	`beford`	`you need to click on a button once the call was stablished`
`23:01.38`	`GAN8001`	`or to other tablets.`
`23:01.39`	`Robot101`	`thats a bit odd, I wonder what gizmo do which makes video not work with our SIP client`
`23:01.50`	`fysa`	`how is Gizmo over EDGE? ;)`
`23:02.01`	`GAN8001`	`I tested it ONCE, fysa`
`23:02.05`	`GAN8001`	`It actually worked OK`
`23:02.14`	`fysa`	`lag?`
`23:02.29`	`GAN8001`	`But no idea if it'd actually pan out with real usage, as it was only a 20 second, connect and say hi test.`
`23:03.16`	`GAN8001`	`Robot101, if you could figure out Gizmo video with rtcomm that'd be amazing.`
`23:06.03`	`vivia`	`if anyone is interested in reading my n810 story and how i'm still trying to receive it, i just emailed it to maemo-developers , or you can also read it here: http://pastebin.com/d1e62cdca any help would be more than welcome...`
`23:06.30`	`GAN8001`	`vivia, Quim may pick it up from developers`
`23:06.45`	`GAN8001`	`Keep in mind that most everybody is at LinuxTag this week, so don't expect a response until next week.`
`23:07.18`	`vivia`	`GAN8001: i've been trying since december/january or something... so a week seems like nothing`
`23:07.23`	`Navi`	`I would think they'd be watching the dev list`
`23:07.32`	`GAN8001`	`Ha`
`23:07.38`	`vivia`	`i don't mind waiting, i just hope i can get some help here`
`23:07.44`	`vivia`	`i ended up even losing money`
`23:07.46`	`GAN8001`	`vivia, it's what you get for living in a country with a crappy Nokia shop. :P`
`23:08.20`	`vivia`	`well, i was born here, still doing my phd here, nothing much i can do i guess. :)`
`23:08.43`	`GAN8001`	`You could always go trout-walloping at Nokia HQ`
`23:09.05`	`GAN8001`	`I'm sure we could get enough people together to pay your expenses and more. :D`
`23:09.44`	`summatusmentis`	`bum deal, the openssh packages don't have GSSAPI options implemented`
`23:09.45`	`vivia`	`enough people together.. :) that's why i decided to send to maemo-developers... it's different to have one freaking customer yelling in greece, and it's different to have a whole team supporting :)`
`23:10.57`	`vivia`	`anyway, thanx... :) don't know whether you've read the story but i'm about to have a nervous breakdown after all this story`
`23:11.25`	`GAN8001`	`Your not the only one to have trouble with the discount codes`
`23:11.35`	`vivia`	`oh really?`
`23:11.37`	`GAN8001`	`but probably one of the few remaining stragglers. ;)`
`23:11.51`	`GAN8001`	`Everybody had a lot of trouble initially`
`23:11.53`	`vivia`	`and probably the only one to lose money on top of that :)`
`23:12.04`	`GAN8001`	`Then it was mostly just the Canadians`
`23:12.09`	`GAN8001`	`then it was some odd others`
`23:12.15`	`GAN8001`	`now mostly everybody seems to be good.`
`23:12.19`	`vivia`	`spain too, i was told that a guy had problems where neither code worked`
`23:12.39`	`summatusmentis`	`what does the discount code get you?`
`23:13.00`	`vivia`	`summatusmentis: i've already used 3 discount codes in vain and the 4th one is a petty 5%...`
`23:13.32`	`GAN8001`	`summatusmentis, it's a developer/contributor discount`
`23:13.40`	`GAN8001`	`$160 USD N810 initially.`
`23:13.43`	`vivia`	`oh sorry, misunderstood the "get you" part`
`23:13.48`	`GAN8001`	`http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/500_fortunate_applicants.html`
`23:13.58`	`summatusmentis`	`GAN8001: omg, that's an awesome deal`
`23:14.09`	`GAN8001`	`Yeah, they did it for the 770 and N800, too`
`23:14.14`	`vivia`	`i guess i'll end up paying the full price after all`
`23:14.14`	`*** join/#maemo christefano (n=christef@ppp-69-239-86-229.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net)`
`23:14.15`	`GAN8001`	`and hopefully for the N900.`
`23:14.21`	`vivia`	`but hell, i at least want the money i spent`
`23:14.22`	`GAN8001`	`So time to get developing/contributing, summatusmentis. ;)`
`23:15.26`	`summatusmentis`	`I'm contributig to openafs this summer`
`23:15.42`	`vivia`	`summatusmentis: maybe you can apply next year too :)`
`23:16.23`	`summatusmentis`	`well, maybe :)`
`23:16.25`	`vivia`	`OT: it's 2am here and I"m so frustrated I can't sleep. And I can't even count sheep, because I'm working on a stupid asp+m$sql project about... sheep... and they stress me out even more`
`23:16.55`	`summatusmentis`	`my summer of code will be done at the end of summer :) then I'll maybe be able to focus my time elsewhere`
`23:17.04`	`sp3000`	`you could count some other animals`
`23:17.06`	`sp3000`	`bugs maybe?`
`23:17.27`	`vivia`	`lol, that's another way to stress a developer - counting bugs :)`
`23:17.55`	`vivia`	`i can also count (live) mosquitos but that's not quite relaxing either :p`
`23:18.39`	`summatusmentis`	`:-D`
`23:25.36`	`n800m`	`hey i'm stuck in zelda`
`23:25.38`	`n800m`	`help`
`23:25.57`	`GAN8001`	`Kill the bad guys.`
`23:26.04`	`summatusmentis`	`cmd+q`
`23:26.15`	`summatusmentis`	`oh, zelda, wrong platform`
`23:26.15`	`*** join/#maemo legind (n=legind@70-5-96-246.area3.spcsdns.net)`
`23:26.21`	`n800m`	`hah`
`23:26.38`	`n800m`	`the gba emulator is pretty good on the n800`
`23:26.41`	`n800m`	`on some games`
`23:26.46`	`n800m`	`about half are too slow`
`23:27.03`	`GAN8001`	`summatusmentis, out of interest, how often do you have to explain where the Command key is?`
`23:27.50`	`summatusmentis`	`not often, I don't help people that often :)`
`23:27.59`	`GAN8001`	`Ha, OK.`
`23:28.14`	`summatusmentis`	`and usually when I do, I tell them "apple q" or some such thing`
`23:28.20`	`GAN8001`	`I help people A LOT, and I don't want to think about how many times I've explain its location.`
`23:28.21`	`vivia`	`could be worse... looking for the any key`
`23:28.43`	`vivia`	`or taking "any key" too literally and pressing caps lock`
`23:29.15`	`summatusmentis`	`does caps lcok not register`
`23:29.17`	`n800m`	`eject`
`23:29.17`	`summatusmentis`	`?`
`23:29.52`	`vivia`	`usually not, though i guess you could make it ...`
`23:30.05`	`Navi`	`Heh`
`23:30.07`	`n800m`	`the function key`
`23:30.13`	`n800m`	`my favorite`
`23:30.15`	`Navi`	`I mapped my caps to control and control to tab`
`23:30.19`	`Navi`	`er`
`23:30.23`	`Navi`	`control to tab`
`23:30.24`	`Navi`	`er`
`23:30.27`	`Navi`	`GOD DAMN`
`23:30.31`	`Navi`	`control to caps lock`
`23:30.35`	`GAN8001`	`pats Navi on the back.`
`23:30.41`	`GAN8001`	`Breath . . . type it SLOWLY`
`23:30.54`	`Navi`	`So whenever someone's over at my house and tries to hit control, they go "wtf?"`
`23:30.58`	`GAN8001`	`I tried to do that for a while`
`23:31.07`	`GAN8001`	`but my muscle memory doesn't want to change.`
`23:31.21`	`Navi`	`I like it`
`23:31.27`	`summatusmentis`	`why would you do that?`
`23:31.36`	`GAN8001`	`Caps is closer`
`23:31.39`	`summatusmentis`	`I guess easier access`
`23:31.45`	`Navi`	`Caps is easier to hit than control`
`23:31.51`	`vivia`	`GAN8001: do you have a laptop? THAT's an example of muscle memory nto wanting to change..`
`23:31.52`	`GAN8001`	`Less contortionism`
`23:31.57`	`Navi`	`and you accidentally hit it a lot AND SOUND LIKE YOU'RE PISSED OFF`
`23:31.58`	`GAN8001`	`Ugh`
`23:32.00`	`GAN8001`	`Screw laptops`
`23:32.01`	`summatusmentis`	`mine would light up all the time`
`23:32.07`	`GAN8001`	`They're the worst things in the world`
`23:32.10`	`summatusmentis`	`oh really? <3 my macbook`
`23:32.16`	`GAN8001`	`has a big, loud, hot, dual G5`
`23:32.22`	`GAN8001`	`and a bunch of NITs. ;)`
`23:32.32`	`Navi`	`Like twenty of them.`
`23:32.33`	`n800m`	`pfft there's no zelda chan on freenode`
`23:32.49`	`Navi`	`Freenode isn't much of a gaming network`
`23:32.53`	`vivia`	`Navi: how about accidentaly hitting control and ending up giving a command?`
`23:32.59`	`vivia`	`Navi: i guess that's worse than typing in caps :)`
`23:33.03`	`Navi`	`Nah`
`23:33.04`	`GAN8001`	`Zelda isn't really "on topic" for Freenode.`
`23:33.07`	`summatusmentis`	`my theory was originally to buy a Z, and use that instead, but this NIT might be finally what I'm looking for in th at regard`
`23:33.21`	`summatusmentis`	`the Z never did what I wanted`
`23:33.26`	`summatusmentis`	`or not well enough`
`23:33.29`	`GAN8001`	`Lot of ex-Z owners about.`
`23:33.39`	`n800m`	`there's one on efnet!`
`23:33.50`	`summatusmentis`	`they were awesome machines, for their time`
`23:33.57`	`vivia`	`efnet?.... is that still alive? :)`
`23:33.57`	`summatusmentis`	`now, they're big and out-dated`
`23:33.58`	`GAN8001`	`n800m, Freenode is really for free and opensource projects`
`23:34.09`	`Navi`	`EFNet is still around`
`23:34.18`	`Navi`	`Lotta channels on there`
`23:34.22`	`Navi`	`I'm a Rizon guy myself`
`23:34.23`	`n800m`	`yeah been on efnet since 98 i think`
`23:34.25`	`vivia`	`yikes, that must have been the first irc network i remember`
`23:34.43`	`vivia`	`94-95 ...`
`23:34.54`	`Navi`	`But half of my autojoin channels are on Freenode`
`23:34.57`	`n800m`	`yeah it's old`
`23:35.31`	`summatusmentis`	`I don't have any autojoin channels setup anymore, since I switched to irssi+screen`
`23:35.34`	`summatusmentis`	`:-/`
`23:35.47`	`vivia`	`i'm only idling around on #amsn for support... and maybe 1-2 more channels occasionally`
`23:35.58`	`vivia`	`summatusmentis: <3 irssi+screen`
`23:36.09`	`summatusmentis`	`GAN8001: are you on leopard? check out Visor+SIMBL`
`23:36.21`	`GAN8001`	`It's broken`
`23:36.30`	`GAN8001`	`I have to activate it twice to get it to focus`
`23:36.34`	`Navi`	`I like weechat+screen`
`23:36.43`	`summatusmentis`	`GAN8001: what's broken?`
`23:36.48`	`CrashandDie`	`Don't you love it how the day before you have to give in your project, you want to add a few modifications that basically brick the whole app...`
`23:36.51`	`GAN8001`	`I open it, but it doesn't have focus`
`23:37.02`	`GAN8001`	`so text goes into lalaland instead of the terminal.`
`23:37.06`	`CrashandDie`	`And then your teacher/boss comes around, seeing how everything goes "Well, it worked a few minutes ago, hang on"`
`23:37.11`	`Navi`	`CrashandDie, that's why you either make backups or have revision control`
`23:37.15`	`summatusmentis`	`working fine here`
`23:37.20`	`summatusmentis`	`and loving it!`
`23:37.26`	`GAN8001`	`The way to do it is with irssi-proxy and xchat. :P`
`23:37.28`	`CrashandDie`	`Navi, working with git here, but still... It's frustrating`
`23:37.34`	`Navi`	`I've had svn set up for a while. Should switch to git`
`23:37.44`	`Navi`	`Much too lazy though`
`23:37.49`	`vivia`	`hardware projects can be more fun`
`23:38.05`	`vivia`	`i once handed it out a few days before it was examined so they could keep it, it worked perfectly`
`23:38.08`	`Navi`	`No revision control for hardware projects :(`
`23:38.08`	`CrashandDie`	`vivia, it's part hardware, that's the dangerous part :P`
`23:38.41`	`CrashandDie`	`Camera + free DV tape == Hardware proof of concept revision control`
`23:39.05`	`Navi`	`Lol`
`23:39.07`	`vivia`	`during the examination, must have been bad grounding at the lab, but one of the two main ICs just decided to stop working`
`23:39.22`	`CrashandDie`	`heh... Don't you love when that happens...`
`23:39.35`	`summatusmentis`	`I should make sure my n810 always gets the same address on our home router`
`23:39.38`	`vivia`	`fortunately the team next to us had incidentally decided to use the same IC so we borrowed theirs and it worked`
`23:40.02`	`CrashandDie`	`Also, notice how the probability of shit happening to you [or the project] tends to 1 proportionally with the importance of the exam`
`23:41.20`	`n800m`	`i think efnet is about 99% idling`
`23:41.26`	`CrashandDie`	`Hardware revision control would be awesome though... I want to live in the Matrix... git checkout HEAD^1... "C'MON GUYS, WE GOT NEW CAPACITORS"`
`23:41.39`	`Navi`	`CrashandDie, indeed it would...`
`23:42.12`	`GAN8001`	`Haha`
`23:42.14`	`CrashandDie`	`I remember a couple years back, I was passing my electronics degree`
`23:42.19`	`GAN8001`	`VR baby!`
`23:42.33`	`*** join/#maemo christefano (n=christef@ppp-69-239-86-229.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net)`
`23:42.37`	`CrashandDie`	`We had a stupid project, and maybe two days before the exam`
`23:42.58`	`*** join/#maemo svu_ (n=svu@89.100.3.26)`
`23:43.09`	`CrashandDie`	`We go into the classroom, with our cards at the ready, for the final inspection before the exam... Teacher tells us to go on a workbench`
`23:43.50`	`CrashandDie`	`I get to my workbench, some idiot kicks me away, I was just about to hit the switch... I take my card, go to the next bench... The guy plus in his card, flips the switch`
`23:44.00`	`CrashandDie`	`48V drilling through a 5V card`
`23:44.15`	`vivia`	`ouch!!`
`23:44.29`	`CrashandDie`	`I see a little bit of smoke rising up from the remains, as I see all hope leaving his eyes`
`23:44.37`	`Navi`	`woot`
`23:44.41`	`GAN8001`	`Ha`
`23:44.42`	`*** part/#maemo jegp (n=jegp@200.26.178.201)`
`23:45.52`	`vivia`	`i once abandoned a project about serially connecting a 6502 (yeah they were still used until a few years ago) to the PC`
`23:46.27`	`vivia`	`for some odd reason, as soon as i connected the 6502's signal ground to the PC's signal ground, the voltage on the 6502 IC would drop to 2.5V`
`23:46.40`	`CrashandDie`	anyone know where this comes from: GLIB CRITICAL ** Gtk - gtk_scrolled_window_add_with_viewport: assertion `GTK_BIN (bin->child)->child == NULL' failed ? Trying to add a Table to a ScrolledWindow
`23:47.37`	`CrashandDie`	`(I'm using the C++ GTK wrappers)`
`23:51.52`	`*** join/#maemo befr0d (n=befr0d@icecream.rdlabs.org)`
`23:51.55`	`n800m`	`microB is base on firefox, correct?`
`23:51.59`	`n800m`	`+d`
`23:52.08`	`GAN8001`	`It's mozilla-based`
`23:52.12`	`n800m`	`right right`
`23:52.21`	`GAN8001`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MicroB`
`23:52.28`	`*** join/#maemo behdad (n=behdad@CPE001217b19226-CM0012c9c84bc4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`23:52.55`	`CrashandDie`	`GAN800, wouldn't have an idea ?`
`23:53.23`	`n800m`	`ooh there's a divx plugin`
`23:53.57`	`GAN8001`	`I fail at GTK, CrashandDie. ;)`
`23:54.09`	`n800m`	`fail, crash, die`
`23:54.15`	`CrashandDie`	`GAN800, so that's your weak point ? GTK? :P`
`23:54.21`	`CrashandDie`	`Mhuwhahahaha, finally found it`
`23:54.26`	`GAN8001`	`One of many, yes. :P`
`23:54.45`	`CrashandDie`	`GAN800, you do a good job at hiding them then :P`
`23:54.55`	`GAN8001`	`Haha`
`23:55.00`	`GAN8001`	`When you have enough . . . :D`
`23:56.07`	`CrashandDie`	`I asked on #c++ @ gimpnet about half an hour ago... No one dared moving, no join, no leave... Nobody dares answering my question...`
`23:57.35`	`GAN8001`	`Hehe`
`23:57.46`	`GAN8001`	`You just gotta go through and highlight everybody individually.`
`23:58.18`	`Navi`	`or highlight everyone at the same time`
`23:58.26`	`Navi`	`They'll really appreciate that`
`23:58.59`	`GAN8001`	`A kickban or an answer . . . either way, you'll have closure.`
`23:59.46`	`CrashandDie`	`well... They're usually quite helpful`
`23:59.52`	`CrashandDie`	`just... Not at 2AM I guess`

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