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| 00:19.29 | rm_you | time to set up scratchbox2. everything is basically switched over to that now, right? |
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| 00:19.37 | KotCzarny | not me |
| 00:19.38 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 00:19.54 | rm_you | lol |
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| 00:25.26 | rm_you | if I follow the guides on http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_4_chinook_sdk.html |
| 00:25.36 | rm_you | is that going to get me Scratchbox 1 or 2? |
| 00:25.56 | KotCzarny | probably 1 |
| 00:25.57 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 00:26.22 | KotCzarny | unless it was updated since i used it |
| 00:29.02 | NullM0dem | Anyone know of a tutorial to install the mameo-SDK on centOS or RHEL? i tried manual install and its giving me pains |
| 00:29.28 | KotCzarny | nm: i used the intructions rm pasted |
| 00:29.38 | KotCzarny | and it worked on slackware |
| 00:29.52 | KotCzarny | i used automatic script to install it though |
| 00:29.52 | KotCzarny | :) |
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| 00:30.57 | NullM0dem | Im on Centos 5 at work, i tried the manual install but cannot run the maemo-sdk.xxx.sh install script |
| 00:31.39 | KotCzarny | what's the error? |
| 00:32.19 | NullM0dem | unable to open /dev/null |
| 00:32.23 | KotCzarny | lol |
| 00:32.25 | KotCzarny | lame |
| 00:32.27 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 00:32.33 | KotCzarny | bug the admin |
| 00:32.37 | NullM0dem | lame as in im a noob or... |
| 00:32.49 | KotCzarny | do you have root on that machine? |
| 00:33.01 | NullM0dem | yeah but the admin has sudo not sure of the changes he made |
| 00:33.20 | KotCzarny | you need to chmod +rw /dev/{null,zero} |
| 00:34.00 | rm_you | lol thats ridiculous |
| 00:34.03 | KotCzarny | yeah |
| 00:34.11 | rm_you | you could just edit the script to not redirect to /dev/null |
| 00:34.12 | KotCzarny | i have spotted that braindamageness on freebsd too |
| 00:34.22 | rm_you | you'd get a lot of extra crap on the screen, but it would work fine |
| 00:34.24 | KotCzarny | rm, proper fix is to fix the evice node |
| 00:34.25 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 00:34.44 | NullM0dem | I re ran the script and the actual error is: Scratchbox user's /dev is not properly set up. Couldn't read /dev/null |
| 00:34.46 | rm_you | yeah, but he only needs to run it once and probably just wants it to work :P |
| 00:34.59 | NullM0dem | would that fix work as well for that |
| 00:35.03 | KotCzarny | rm, but it will break other things too |
| 00:35.08 | KotCzarny | nm: probably |
| 00:35.21 | rm_you | does anything else in there RELY on /dev/null that much? |
| 00:35.25 | KotCzarny | assuming there is no other b0rkenness |
| 00:35.27 | rm_you | i agree, it's important to get that fixed |
| 00:35.27 | rm_you | but |
| 00:35.35 | rm_you | bah, that still makes no sense |
| 00:35.35 | KotCzarny | rm: fix is a one liner |
| 00:35.40 | KotCzarny | so no buts |
| 00:35.41 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 00:35.51 | rm_you | does RHEL use a different /dev structure?! |
| 00:35.58 | rm_you | yeah, a oneliner that requires root access >_> |
| 00:36.18 | KotCzarny | no, probably some braindamaged app removed /dev/null and created it with wrong permissions |
| 00:36.22 | rm_you | though a large portion of the setup requires root already, i guess |
| 00:36.29 | rm_you | meh |
| 00:36.40 | NullM0dem | possibly vmware |
| 00:36.43 | KotCzarny | rm: disabling vdso needs root too :) |
| 00:36.43 | rm_you | heh |
| 00:36.46 | rm_you | >_> |
| 00:37.09 | rm_you | i hate redhat and centos >_> |
| 00:37.21 | rm_you | tried to use centOS a few times and it always just aggrivated me |
| 00:37.30 | rm_you | i'll stick with gentoo or debian based systems I think |
| 00:37.35 | rm_you | or arch... arch seemed nice |
| 00:37.48 | KotCzarny | slackware :) |
| 00:37.54 | rm_you | never tried it :P |
| 00:37.56 | rm_you | maybe i will |
| 00:38.02 | rm_you | fedora pissed me off too |
| 00:38.06 | NullM0dem | I love slack |
| 00:38.06 | rm_you | most RPM distros just piss me off |
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| 00:38.13 | KotCzarny | it's fun if you like it to be simple |
| 00:38.17 | rm_you | :P |
| 00:38.29 | rm_you | does it have any kind of package management? |
| 00:38.32 | KotCzarny | yes |
| 00:38.40 | rm_you | everything i saw is always like... "for slackware, just use this tar.gz" |
| 00:38.46 | NullM0dem | my main os is slack, i use cent at work to be a sheepie |
| 00:38.47 | rm_you | so i always kind of stayed away from me |
| 00:38.49 | rm_you | *from it |
| 00:38.53 | KotCzarny | rm: .tgz != .tar.gz |
| 00:38.54 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 00:39.05 | rm_you | isn't it? |
| 00:39.13 | rm_you | i use the same commands to open em |
| 00:39.16 | KotCzarny | it's like saying that .deb is ar x |
| 00:39.22 | rm_you | thought it was just an abbreviation |
| 00:39.46 | KotCzarny | it uses tar and gzip for packages, but also adds meta files to them |
| 00:39.51 | rm_you | so... i should probably stop calling my random tar.gz files .tgz :P |
| 00:39.56 | KotCzarny | yup |
| 00:39.57 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 00:39.58 | rm_you | lol |
| 00:40.21 | KotCzarny | if you want to build packages for it i can share my scripts |
| 00:40.26 | rm_you | i learned it as just an abbreviation about 7 years ago |
| 00:40.30 | rm_you | and just kept using it that way |
| 00:40.37 | KotCzarny | i usually use mconf, mmake and mpkg |
| 00:40.50 | rm_you | i'll try it out in a bit |
| 00:40.53 | rm_you | does it have a liveCD? |
| 00:40.56 | KotCzarny | probably |
| 00:40.59 | rm_you | is there a slackware based Live distro? |
| 00:41.00 | rm_you | hrm |
| 00:41.23 | KotCzarny | there was thing called zipslack that was ~100mb |
| 00:41.32 | KotCzarny | though i don't know if they do it anymore |
| 00:42.03 | rm_you | what's the slackware mascot? :P |
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| 00:42.23 | rm_you | which one used to have the guy with a pipe? |
| 00:42.27 | rm_you | wasn't that slackware? |
| 00:42.49 | KotCzarny | well, i think mascott would be tux with a pipe |
| 00:42.50 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 00:43.06 | KotCzarny | i don't care about it though :) |
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| 00:43.27 | KotCzarny | i don't like penguins too :) |
| 00:44.04 | NullM0dem | rm_you: there are alot of slackware based distros |
| 00:44.10 | |penguinbait| | WHAT!!!!!!!!!1 |
| 00:44.27 | NullM0dem | ermm... slackware based live cd's |
| 00:44.33 | |penguinbait| | penguins rule!!!!!!!!! |
| 00:44.45 | KotCzarny | penguinbait: i'm a cat |
| 00:44.47 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 00:44.53 | KotCzarny | well, i'm me |
| 00:44.54 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 00:44.57 | NullM0dem | penguins pwn catz |
| 00:44.59 | |penguinbait| | do cats eat penguins? |
| 00:45.05 | KotCzarny | don't know |
| 00:45.07 | KotCzarny | i like pancakes |
| 00:45.08 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 00:45.55 | KotCzarny | darn. i lost my op_H patch |
| 00:46.07 | NullM0dem | rm_you: the guy with the pipe is bob dobbs from the church of the subgenius |
| 00:46.41 | rm_you | ah |
| 00:46.43 | rm_you | yeah |
| 00:46.44 | |penguinbait| | I got a pipe, but I prefer my volcano |
| 00:47.16 | NullM0dem | slax is a slackbased live cd, as well as backtrack |
| 00:47.17 | KotCzarny | maemo logs should be split by hour |
| 00:47.31 | KotCzarny | otherwise google isn't helpful |
| 00:47.34 | KotCzarny | :/ |
| 00:47.49 | NullM0dem | |penguinbait|: volcano?? |
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| 00:48.02 | rm_you | i wonder why i associate subgenius with slackware >_< |
| 00:48.18 | NullM0dem | ummm.... slack |
| 00:48.31 | rm_you | lol |
| 00:48.34 | |penguinbait| | http://www.thevolcanovaporizer.com/ |
| 00:48.38 | NullM0dem | heh, it's all based aorund slacking |
| 00:49.37 | NullM0dem | haha: should know not too click random links at work.... |
| 00:49.56 | KotCzarny | hah, found it. for future reference: op_0 op_1 patch http://en.pastebin.ca/raw/986472 |
| 00:50.07 | KotCzarny | maybe this way i won't lose it again |
| 00:50.07 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 00:50.21 | NullM0dem | |penguinbait|:In vermont on the farm we used the milking system and piled into the milk tank |
| 00:51.45 | |penguinbait| | that seems really large? |
| 00:53.14 | |penguinbait| | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=183466&postcount=15 |
| 00:53.24 | |penguinbait| | there is a good link to have some fun with |
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| 01:02.58 | |penguinbait| | no takers? the bounty is up to 35$ :) |
| 01:03.27 | KotCzarny | ? |
| 01:03.47 | |penguinbait| | BOUNTY for running Microb in KDE |
| 01:03.51 | |penguinbait| | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=183466&postcount=15 |
| 01:04.01 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 01:04.24 | |penguinbait| | I got a n800 with ssh and vnc waiting for you to play :) |
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| 01:04.39 | KotCzarny | i have my own n800 |
| 01:04.39 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 01:04.59 | |penguinbait| | people asked, so I figured why not |
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| 01:05.23 | |penguinbait| | hack away :) |
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| 01:26.27 | KotCzarny | for future reference: fbconsole http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=167960 |
| 01:43.51 | term-sig | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:44.14 | KotCzarny | <PROTECTED> |
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| 02:00.20 | |penguinbait| | oooooh Console :) thats sweet |
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| 02:20.31 | KotCzarny | mmm |
| 02:20.58 | KotCzarny | hacked fanoush initfs to be white-on-black |
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| 02:28.15 | rm_you | lol |
| 02:28.26 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 02:28.29 | rm_you | i'm failing at downloading slackware |
| 02:28.34 | KotCzarny | lol |
| 02:28.35 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 02:28.36 | rm_you | i can't find the ISO |
| 02:28.43 | KotCzarny | use bittorent |
| 02:28.45 | rm_you | in this maze of directories on their mirrors |
| 02:28.52 | KotCzarny | or use google |
| 02:28.52 | KotCzarny | :) |
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| 02:29.02 | rm_you | <_< |
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| 02:32.08 | rm_you | ah got it |
| 02:32.42 | NullM0dem | slack 12.1? |
| 02:32.48 | rm_you | yeah |
| 02:32.50 | NullM0dem | nice |
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| 02:44.29 | rm_you | it's weird tho... |
| 02:44.41 | rm_you | cause I just did my Hardy Heron launch party last month <_< |
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| 02:47.07 | rm_you | http://www.splitbrain.org/projects/dokuwiki |
| 02:47.13 | rm_you | is that .tgz actually a slackware package?! |
| 02:47.18 | rm_you | or did they mislabel too |
| 02:47.29 | KotCzarny | many people misuse .tgz |
| 02:47.30 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 02:47.42 | rm_you | lol |
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| 03:09.53 | NullM0dem | rm_you: hardy heron launch? |
| 03:11.07 | beford | hey, I'm trying to install a package manually from terminal on n810 |
| 03:11.16 | beford | its asking me for a password, what should I use? |
| 03:12.25 | beford | i'm actually running 'sudo dpkg --install xx.deb' |
| 03:12.41 | Navi | install easyroot/becomeroot |
| 03:14.46 | KotCzarny | http://mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/bootmenu/bootmenu-kc-colors.jpg |
| 03:14.52 | KotCzarny | behold! |
| 03:14.53 | KotCzarny | :) |
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| 03:32.31 | KotCzarny | ahm, sorry, wrong link |
| 03:32.37 | KotCzarny | http://mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/n800/bootmenu/bootmenu-kc-colors.jpg |
| 03:32.37 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 03:36.14 | timely | AStorm / KotCzarny: fwiw, diablo 4.1 pre is vulnerable to the openssl thing :) |
| 03:36.32 | KotCzarny | is still on 4.0 |
| 03:36.33 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 03:39.56 | Navi | eh |
| 03:40.47 | timely | just in case people ask |
| 03:40.58 | KotCzarny | timely: btw. have you tested it? |
| 03:40.58 | timely | although from what i understand that's just openssl |
| 03:41.09 | timely | KotCzarny: no, i filed a blocker bug against the system |
| 03:41.14 | timely | i had the sources |
| 03:41.17 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 03:41.31 | timely | i'm not actually sure what it means for maemo though |
| 03:41.36 | KotCzarny | is hacking linuxrc |
| 03:41.42 | timely | afaict the openssh package links against 097 |
| 03:41.58 | timely | which means it shouldn't be any more vulnerable than any other normal ssh package |
| 03:42.07 | timely | and gecko uses nss for crypto |
| 03:42.33 | timely | it probably means that anyone stupid enough to install a debian openssh package onto the maemo 4.1 leaked system would be in trouble |
| 03:42.46 | KotCzarny | i think main impact is on keys generated with broken openssl |
| 03:42.54 | timely | actually... |
| 03:42.57 | timely | don't think that :) |
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| 03:43.05 | timely | or don't think it the way you think you should think it |
| 03:43.10 | timely | what is a key? |
| 03:43.19 | timely | a certificate used for web servers is a key |
| 03:43.33 | timely | a one time key for a crypto channel is still a key |
| 03:43.34 | KotCzarny | from what i have read keys generated on broken debian and used somewhere else are vulnearable |
| 03:43.44 | timely | correct |
| 03:43.54 | Navi | johnx, I hate you |
| 03:44.01 | timely | basically there are 3 or 4 major things that are vulnerable |
| 03:44.05 | KotCzarny | same goes with keys generated and used after upgrading openssl |
| 03:44.08 | timely | web server certificates are among them |
| 03:44.31 | timely | so are session keys, which probably includes someone logging session traffic |
| 03:44.47 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 03:44.56 | timely | however, in maemo 4.1 pre, i don't know of anything specifically vulnerable that would actually matter |
| 03:45.01 | KotCzarny | i wonder if it was a sabotage |
| 03:45.13 | timely | because the https session keys are managed by nss not openssl |
| 03:45.28 | timely | and the ssh session keys would be managed by openssl097 |
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| 03:46.02 | timely | (supposedly, i never actually checked that detail, but someone made that claim) |
| 03:46.15 | timely | i only know of two components that actually used 098 |
| 03:46.35 | timely | one is for parsing afaiu, so it shouldn't matter |
| 03:46.47 | timely | and the other is for a wire protocol which you can't use w/o new hardware |
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| 03:49.53 | benuski | does anyone know how to reinstall the navicore software on the n810? i've messed it up something awful |
| 03:50.39 | GeneralAntilles | Purge the settings from mmc2 |
| 03:50.50 | GeneralAntilles | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:50.57 | GeneralAntilles | or /media/mmc2/maps/ |
| 03:51.01 | GeneralAntilles | Or something similar |
| 03:59.29 | benuski | that worked great |
| 03:59.29 | benuski | thanks! |
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| 04:43.48 | lsobral_ | hi guys, the new release of canola, beta9, is available! |
| 04:43.55 | lsobral_ | check it out: http://openbossa.indt.org/canola/news.html |
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| 04:46.18 | Navi | Sweet. |
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| 04:50.34 | GeneralAntilles | Application manager really needs to use something other than the error-sound for a successful install. |
| 04:50.51 | KotCzarny | post a bug |
| 04:51.21 | KotCzarny | is having fun with n800+fbconsole+btkb |
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| 05:32.21 | lopz | night |
| 05:32.39 | Navi | night |
| 05:32.44 | KotCzarny | night |
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| 05:50.18 | KotCzarny | qwerty, have you seen my new bootmenu? |
| 05:50.19 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 05:50.31 | qwerty12 | KotCzarny, no, just came down :) |
| 05:50.40 | KotCzarny | http://mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/n800/bootmenu/bootmenu-kc-colors.jpg |
| 05:50.41 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 05:51.00 | qwerty12 | Ooh, very nice :) |
| 05:51.05 | KotCzarny | indeed :) |
| 05:51.16 | qwerty12 | I did a black one once, looked odd :D |
| 05:51.34 | KotCzarny | wanna know what to change? |
| 05:51.35 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 05:52.18 | qwerty12 | Alright then please, I need to make another diablo initfs anyway :) |
| 05:53.11 | KotCzarny | .conf and .sh files are in the same dir :) |
| 05:53.20 | qwerty12 | Ok, thanks :) |
| 05:53.31 | KotCzarny | though you are interested in .sh one |
| 05:53.32 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 05:53.59 | KotCzarny | i have made some other changes too |
| 05:54.03 | qwerty12 | Yep, I see it, thanks :) |
| 05:54.10 | qwerty12 | Have you done the FB mod? |
| 05:54.18 | KotCzarny | not finished yet |
| 05:54.18 | qwerty12 | I need to reapply that one. |
| 05:54.27 | KotCzarny | though most pieces are there |
| 05:54.28 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 05:54.55 | KotCzarny | ie. i need to make /etc/rc2.d detect that we need fbconsole and not x |
| 05:55.15 | qwerty12 | You can also change the colour of the "press menu button" and "boot from mmc failed, using flash" etc by changing linux rc |
| 05:55.17 | qwerty12 | Ah cool :) |
| 05:55.23 | qwerty12 | *linuxrc |
| 05:55.26 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 05:55.31 | KotCzarny | yes, i did that |
| 05:55.41 | KotCzarny | files in fs/* are replacing the original ones |
| 05:55.42 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 05:56.05 | qwerty12 | Cool :). I wish Nokia used Black instead of white. Hurts my eyes in the night heh. |
| 05:56.13 | KotCzarny | yeah |
| 05:56.18 | KotCzarny | i made it grey |
| 05:56.26 | KotCzarny | to differentiate from fanoush initfs |
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| 05:57.14 | qwerty12 | wants someone to make tool to extract NOLO's pictures and repack with new ones :p |
| 05:57.25 | KotCzarny | heh |
| 05:57.38 | KotCzarny | nolo is a little fragile without serial cable |
| 05:57.38 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 05:58.10 | qwerty12 | I've got a usb to serial converter from my sony ericsson days, I could try and make a plug for that :) |
| 05:58.31 | KotCzarny | i don't know if usb is available that early |
| 05:58.31 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 05:58.47 | qwerty12 | I mean for my computer :) |
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| 06:12.42 | KotCzarny | For the moment, rotation isn't possible in the UI (lots of hardcoded |
| 06:12.42 | KotCzarny | 800x480s abound), so it's not been a high priority on my list, but it is |
| 06:12.42 | KotCzarny | certainly on it, and I'll hopefully be adding the support at some stage. |
| 06:12.51 | KotCzarny | that's from: Jan 16, 2007, 10:57 AM |
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| 06:15.57 | AStorm | timely: well, given weak OpenSSL on both sides, the system is vulnerable to online attack |
| 06:16.12 | AStorm | given weak OpenSSL on one side, to a MITM attack |
| 06:16.24 | AStorm | (of course, only if keys are weak) |
| 06:16.42 | KotCzarny | astorm: have you seen my bootmenu? |
| 06:16.43 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 06:16.52 | AStorm | no, I haven't |
| 06:17.01 | KotCzarny | no more black-on-white |
| 06:17.03 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 06:17.09 | AStorm | blah blah |
| 06:17.17 | KotCzarny | maybe blah for you |
| 06:17.20 | AStorm | how did you disable that horrible Nokia screen? |
| 06:17.21 | KotCzarny | but it hort my eyes |
| 06:17.31 | KotCzarny | just edited linuxrc |
| 06:17.31 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 06:17.42 | AStorm | and set diff colors? heheh |
| 06:17.47 | KotCzarny | yes |
| 06:17.48 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 06:17.52 | AStorm | weak |
| 06:17.56 | KotCzarny | but working |
| 06:18.00 | AStorm | tell me when you replace Nokia logo |
| 06:18.03 | KotCzarny | and the effect is what counts |
| 06:18.13 | KotCzarny | astorm, which one? |
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| 06:18.21 | AStorm | both |
| 06:18.21 | KotCzarny | because it's set few times during boot |
| 06:18.27 | AStorm | no, twice |
| 06:18.32 | KotCzarny | and only the one from nolo isn't replaceable atm |
| 06:18.37 | qwerty12 | wants to get rid of the nolo one |
| 06:18.41 | AStorm | is, if you get a replacement nolo |
| 06:18.42 | KotCzarny | the rest you can simply comment out |
| 06:18.48 | qwerty12 | logo-nokia don't mean shit. I've already deleted it. |
| 06:18.58 | AStorm | ~lart Nokia and its closed stuff |
| 06:18.58 | infobot | cats /dev/urandom into Nokia and its closed stuff's ear |
| 06:19.17 | KotCzarny | i wonder how much nolo does |
| 06:19.31 | AStorm | it is a Fiasco kernel image |
| 06:19.41 | KotCzarny | hmm? |
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| 06:19.58 | AStorm | yes, you heard right |
| 06:20.04 | GeneralAntilles | qwerty12, you tried mounting NOLO on your computer yet? |
| 06:20.13 | AStorm | Nokia is hiding here a RTOS |
| 06:20.16 | qwerty12 | GeneralAntilles, NOLO isn't jffs2 |
| 06:20.23 | AStorm | yes, it isn't |
| 06:20.25 | GeneralAntilles | Ah, nevermind. |
| 06:20.29 | KotCzarny | hehe |
| 06:20.43 | KotCzarny | yeah, it's like trying to mount command.com |
| 06:20.44 | KotCzarny | :> |
| 06:20.52 | KotCzarny | well |
| 06:20.54 | qwerty12 | Best I ever saw was the probably incorrect info on the 0xFFFF site. |
| 06:20.55 | KotCzarny | more like mbr |
| 06:20.56 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 06:21.14 | AStorm | KotCzarny: yes, but it's a proggie for Fiasco |
| 06:21.25 | KotCzarny | i know |
| 06:21.46 | AStorm | ~lart Nokia for not using Fiasco to full extent |
| 06:21.46 | infobot | strangles Nokia with a 9-pole serial cable for not using Fiasco to full extent |
| 06:22.03 | AStorm | that would be great, really |
| 06:22.11 | AStorm | first real consumer use of RTOS |
| 06:22.25 | AStorm | and there's L4Linux already |
| 06:23.57 | AStorm | infobot: have a cookie |
| 06:23.58 | infobot | Ta. *Munch* |
| 06:24.24 | KotCzarny | then all we need is someone with jtag cable who tries few loaders |
| 06:24.25 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 06:25.07 | AStorm | jtag? I couldn't see any port... |
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| 06:25.45 | AStorm | why do you need a jtag cable, when there's a cold flasher in rom? |
| 06:25.55 | qwerty12 | The port's above the battery. |
| 06:26.10 | AStorm | qwerty12: really? I only saw serial there... |
| 06:26.27 | qwerty12 | That is the jtag |
| 06:26.35 | AStorm | no, sorry |
| 06:26.40 | AStorm | that's the serial port |
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| 06:26.52 | qwerty12 | You can plug jtag into there iirc |
| 06:27.04 | AStorm | mhm, serial-based, plausible |
| 06:27.22 | AStorm | but I also couldn't see any chip governing it |
| 06:27.33 | AStorm | (unless it's built into one of the TI chips) |
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| 06:27.52 | qwerty12 | It's meant for cold flashing so I guess it would be somewhere low level. |
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| 06:28.37 | AStorm | maybe you can just send the flasher over it |
| 06:29.13 | KotCzarny | i wonder if anyone did a nolo reflash |
| 06:29.13 | GeneralAntilles | JTAG is how the factory recovers from NOLO brickings. |
| 06:29.29 | AStorm | q: where is it? |
| 06:29.41 | AStorm | it probably won't be the serial port |
| 06:29.45 | qwerty12 | wonders if nokia also use phoenix for other things. |
| 06:29.47 | AStorm | although it is possible |
| 06:29.57 | AStorm | qwerty12: like, unit testing? definitely |
| 06:29.59 | GeneralAntilles | It's next to the battery in the N800. |
| 06:30.06 | KotCzarny | http://mamona.mmapps.net/n800_serial/pics/ |
| 06:30.07 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 06:30.09 | KotCzarny | here it is |
| 06:30.09 | AStorm | GeneralAntilles: where in N810 then? |
| 06:30.17 | GeneralAntilles | Somewhere else. |
| 06:30.32 | AStorm | if it is also the serial port... it means the controller is in TI chip |
| 06:30.37 | AStorm | possible |
| 06:30.41 | GeneralAntilles | It is. |
| 06:31.20 | qwerty12 | wants someone to crack latest phoenix so I can connect my N800 up. I've already downloaded the files that correspond to the N800. |
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| 06:31.43 | AStorm | qwerty12: what is that phoenix? |
| 06:31.48 | KotCzarny | phone flasher |
| 06:31.49 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 06:31.56 | AStorm | blah |
| 06:32.04 | qwerty12 | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17665 |
| 06:32.22 | qwerty12 | N800 is based off BB5 so Phoenix supports it. |
| 06:32.32 | AStorm | ok, if they got Fiasco to run, they must've built it for ARM... expected that to work, yes |
| 06:33.38 | KotCzarny | qwerty: look at the pics i have pasted, maybe you can create your own dongle :> |
| 06:33.56 | qwerty12 | Hehe, my hardware skills are **** :p |
| 06:33.56 | KotCzarny | i mean, cable |
| 06:33.57 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 06:33.57 | AStorm | as I said, they should've written the drivers for Fiasco |
| 06:34.06 | AStorm | and used slightly patched L4Linux |
| 06:34.27 | AStorm | would actually be more stable :> |
| 06:34.38 | AStorm | (e.g. broken camera driver wouldn't hang the device) |
| 06:34.45 | qwerty12 | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:34.53 | qwerty12 | next bb5 phone I plan on getting. |
| 06:34.59 | qwerty12 | Sorry, enter button slipped. |
| 06:35.13 | GeneralAntilles | WTF are you on about, AStorm? |
| 06:35.23 | GeneralAntilles | FIASCO is just the firmware image |
| 06:35.33 | AStorm | GeneralAntilles: no, it's a full scale RTOS kernel |
| 06:35.36 | AStorm | :> |
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| 06:35.57 | AStorm | http://os.inf.tu-dresden.de/fiasco/ - this one, I suspect |
| 06:36.42 | qwerty12 | http://www.nopcode.org/0xFFFF/?p=docu&q=fiasco |
| 06:36.47 | AStorm | (site is old, devel is alive) |
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| 06:37.50 | AStorm | blah format is quick and easy it seems |
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| 06:37.58 | AStorm | we need to look what's in omap-nand |
| 06:38.10 | AStorm | because that is the true kernel |
| 06:38.20 | AStorm | (which then passes control to Linux) |
| 06:42.24 | qwerty12 | All qwerty wants to know is that which one of these contain the images: 2nd.bin-RX-34:1301,1302,1501,1502,1503,1504,1601,1602, xloader.bin-RX-34:1301,1302,1501,1502,1503,1504,1601,1602, secondary.bin-RX-34:1301,1302,1501,1502,1503,1504,1601,1602 |
| 06:42.50 | KotCzarny | probably all of them |
| 06:42.50 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 06:42.57 | qwerty12 | is also glad I can delete the stupid hands pictures. me laughs at my friend with N95... |
| 06:43.19 | KotCzarny | qwerty, hands are replaceable on rootfs |
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| 06:43.25 | KotCzarny | you don't even have to reflash anything |
| 06:43.26 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 06:43.30 | qwerty12 | KotCzarny, I don't think so. different sizes. for the images. |
| 06:43.42 | qwerty12 | KotCzarny, I know :). I'm glad that you can delete them. |
| 06:43.46 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 06:43.48 | KotCzarny | well |
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| 06:43.51 | KotCzarny | i replaced them |
| 06:43.54 | KotCzarny | with my own pic |
| 06:43.55 | KotCzarny | :) |
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| 06:44.56 | qwerty12 | My guess is that secondary.bin-RX-34:1301,1302,1501,1502,1503,1504,1601,1602 holds the images. I wouldn't consider images to be a massivly important/required part and its got the biggest size. |
| 06:45.47 | GeneralAntilles | You should change some random bits, flash it and find out. :P |
| 06:46.03 | qwerty12 | GeneralAntilles, Maybe another day when I feel in a killing mood ;P |
| 06:47.00 | KotCzarny | yeah, flash your n95 with n800 image |
| 06:47.01 | KotCzarny | :) |
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| 06:48.36 | KotCzarny | qwerty: anything interesting diablo wise? |
| 06:48.44 | qwerty12 | rd flags make me laugh. Quite a bit of the stuff enabled with them are done by the initfs and init scripts. They run cal-tool to see if a flag has been enabled. |
| 06:48.50 | qwerty12 | KotCzarny, I've only got diablo initfs. |
| 06:48.55 | qwerty12 | NOLO wasn't touched. |
| 06:51.03 | qwerty12 | thinks linux hex editors suck. I'm probably gonna run winhex from wine. |
| 06:51.31 | trickie_ | http://os.inf.tu-dresden.de/pipermail/l4-hackers/2006/002036.html |
| 06:51.34 | trickie_ | interesting |
| 06:51.36 | qwerty12 | Also any arm asm experts here? Try running the bootloaders through IDA or summat like that. |
| 06:52.07 | KotCzarny | qwerty: use mc, it has hex editor |
| 06:52.08 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 06:52.53 | qwerty12 | Ok, thanks. But now, the homework that is expected to take 1hr to complete must be done in 20 mins >.< and be given in today. |
| 06:52.55 | qwerty12 | Bye. |
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| 07:00.49 | KotCzarny | trickie_: indeed, interesting |
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| 07:17.39 | KotCzarny | heh |
| 07:17.40 | KotCzarny | fun |
| 07:17.50 | KotCzarny | someone should try: apt-get remove gcc-3.4-base |
| 07:17.55 | KotCzarny | it cries so hard :> |
| 07:18.20 | KotCzarny | To continue type in the phrase 'Yes, do as I say!' |
| 07:18.21 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 07:18.28 | summatusmentis | for real? |
| 07:18.58 | KotCzarny | ok, stupid question, how to install gcc? |
| 07:18.58 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 07:19.35 | KotCzarny | hint: apt-get install gcc doesn't work |
| 07:19.36 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 07:20.10 | summatusmentis | you may need to specify the correct name |
| 07:20.15 | summatusmentis | apt-get install gcc-3.4-base |
| 07:20.19 | summatusmentis | etc. etc. |
| 07:20.25 | KotCzarny | i have it installed |
| 07:20.32 | KotCzarny | but i don't see gcc |
| 07:20.43 | summatusmentis | what? |
| 07:21.19 | summatusmentis | like... you can't run it? |
| 07:21.30 | KotCzarny | -sh: gcc: not found |
| 07:21.46 | KotCzarny | apt-get install gcc-3.4-base |
| 07:21.48 | KotCzarny | gcc-3.4-base is already the newest version. |
| 07:22.01 | kulve | dpkg -L gcc-3.4-base |
| 07:22.15 | KotCzarny | only docs |
| 07:22.16 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 07:22.27 | summatusmentis | KotCzarny: maybe a symlink? |
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| 07:22.45 | KotCzarny | ls: /usr/bin/gcc*: No such file or directory |
| 07:22.51 | summatusmentis | uh oh |
| 07:23.05 | summatusmentis | I don't remember... is there a force option? |
| 07:23.15 | KotCzarny | probably gcc lives in another package |
| 07:23.18 | summatusmentis | or apt-get install --reinstall gcc-3.4-base |
| 07:23.19 | lcdd | how about gcc-3.4 |
| 07:23.43 | KotCzarny | Package gcc-3.4 is not available |
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| 07:24.50 | summatusmentis | try install --reinstall |
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| 07:24.58 | summatusmentis | debian has it, I'm not sure about maemo |
| 07:25.45 | trickie_ | KotCzarny: is there a build-essential package? |
| 07:25.57 | kulve | maemo probably doesn't have gcc as there's little use for it |
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| 07:27.05 | KotCzarny | i remember i have installed it one day |
| 07:27.14 | KotCzarny | just don't remember which repo had it |
| 07:27.41 | KotCzarny | and yes, gronmayer is down still |
| 07:30.41 | KotCzarny | Reinstallation of gcc-3.4-base is not possible, it cannot be downloaded. |
| 07:30.43 | KotCzarny | hmm |
| 07:34.34 | KotCzarny | it looks like it's living in http://repository.maemo.org/pool/chinook/free/g/gcc-3.4/ |
| 07:35.10 | KotCzarny | Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.0.1/free/g/gcc-3.4/gcc-3.4-base_3.4.4cs2005q3.2-5.osso8_armel.deb 401 Unauthorized [IP: 69.22.179.82 80] |
| 07:35.16 | KotCzarny | D'OH. |
| 07:35.39 | KotCzarny | it's not mine ip |
| 07:35.50 | KotCzarny | o.o |
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| 07:36.34 | KotCzarny | but wait |
| 07:36.41 | jdiaz | help! |
| 07:37.04 | kulve | KotCzarny: 401 here too.. |
| 07:37.11 | jdiaz | I modified sudoers file, I put there something wrong... and now I can't sudo |
| 07:37.14 | KotCzarny | kulve, wtf |
| 07:37.21 | jdiaz | so i can't gain root access |
| 07:37.22 | KotCzarny | they went crazy |
| 07:37.32 | jdiaz | and cannot undo the sudoers changes |
| 07:37.33 | kulve | jdiaz: login as root through ssh and fix it |
| 07:37.47 | jdiaz | yep, that is the first I tought |
| 07:37.54 | KotCzarny | kulve, good thing i have mirrored whole repository.maemo.org |
| 07:37.55 | jdiaz | however, I can't either, I do not why... |
| 07:38.04 | jdiaz | perhaps I forgot the root password |
| 07:38.15 | jdiaz | perhaps I disabled the root pasword and forgot about it |
| 07:38.43 | jdiaz | I used "easyroot" for so long, that I forgot the ssh way |
| 07:38.49 | KotCzarny | kulve, i see, akamai sees me as unauthorized ip |
| 07:39.00 | KotCzarny | i can get the package from repostory.maemo.org |
| 07:39.07 | KotCzarny | wtf. |
| 07:39.13 | kulve | jdiaz: then you need to install the initfs and use the "emergency ssh access" to login to initfs and mount the rootfs by hand and fix things |
| 07:39.35 | jdiaz | kulve, thanks... there is a hope then |
| 07:39.44 | kulve | jdiaz: there could be easier way too, but can't think of any right now |
| 07:39.50 | trickie_ | jdiaz: or maybe reinstalling openssh lets reset the password? |
| 07:39.58 | trickie_ | i think i have done that before |
| 07:40.02 | jdiaz | hmm... |
| 07:40.06 | trickie_ | maybe have to remove it first |
| 07:40.23 | kulve | that would be easier, if it works :) |
| 07:40.28 | trickie_ | when i installed openssh the package configuration let me set the root pass |
| 07:40.45 | jdiaz | trickie_, I don't think so, /etc/passwd is not related to ssh, but you gave me an idea |
| 07:40.45 | trickie_ | no |
| 07:40.45 | KotCzarny | lol |
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| 07:40.45 | kulve | yeah, install a package that sets the root passwd |
| 07:40.48 | trickie_ | but the installer has a prompt to set the password |
| 07:40.48 | KotCzarny | i'm getting 401 on catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com too |
| 07:40.54 | KotCzarny | akamai is b0rken. |
| 07:41.07 | KotCzarny | (or my dns) |
| 07:41.19 | kulve | and mine? |
| 07:41.29 | KotCzarny | can you check what ip gets you repository.maemo.org ? |
| 07:41.47 | KotCzarny | 69.22.179.90, 69.22.179.82 for me |
| 07:42.12 | kulve | tkulve@sd056:~$ host repository.maemo.org |
| 07:42.12 | kulve | repository.maemo.org is an alias for repository.maemo.org.edgesuite.net. |
| 07:42.12 | kulve | repository.maemo.org.edgesuite.net is an alias for a515.g.akamai.net. |
| 07:42.12 | kulve | a515.g.akamai.net has address 195.215.37.63 |
| 07:42.12 | kulve | a515.g.akamai.net has address 195.215.37.56 |
| 07:42.19 | jdiaz | uh oh... |
| 07:42.25 | jdiaz | I can't install anything! |
| 07:42.35 | jdiaz | apparently the application manager also uses sudo, which is broken |
| 07:42.50 | KotCzarny | wtf.. now repostory is 401 for me too |
| 07:43.32 | kulve | jdiaz: yeah, it seems to use sudo too |
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| 07:44.10 | kulve | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:44.10 | kulve | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:44.51 | jdiaz | is getting nervous |
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| 07:45.05 | trickie_ | jdiaz: it seems the only way to fix it without flashing rootfs again is to install the intifs from http://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/ |
| 07:45.29 | jdiaz | but how can I install it when broken sudoers? |
| 07:45.36 | KotCzarny | from windows |
| 07:45.37 | kulve | you need to flash it |
| 07:45.40 | trickie_ | you can flash it |
| 07:45.41 | KotCzarny | or another linux box |
| 07:45.42 | kulve | it flasher tool |
| 07:45.59 | KotCzarny | darn. i can't install anything on my n800 |
| 07:45.59 | kulve | trickie_: you can also boot from mmc and fix the rootfs from there |
| 07:46.06 | KotCzarny | everything goes 401 |
| 07:46.10 | kulve | s,trickie_,jdiaz, |
| 07:46.27 | trickie_ | kulve: yes assuming he has set up a mmc to boot to |
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| 07:46.59 | jdiaz | I didn't |
| 07:47.05 | jjo | I got 401 also using the link to the repository but when I went to the parent directory and clicked the file again I was able to download it |
| 07:47.08 | kulve | I would guess that you could just download one from the net? And the boot system to mmc with flasher without the need to flash the new initfs |
| 07:47.38 | trickie_ | sounds like a plan :) |
| 07:47.49 | KotCzarny | jjo, so it's one of akamai server freaking out or someone at nokia working on repositories |
| 07:47.58 | GeneralAntilles | jdiaz, or talk somebody into giving you the jffs2 image that initfs flasher spits out. |
| 07:47.59 | Cptnodegard | weee, my BT gps is here |
| 07:48.00 | kulve | although I recommend using the fanoush's initfs. It's just convenient :) |
| 07:48.03 | GeneralAntilles | and flash that with the flasher |
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| 07:48.18 | jjo | nobody at nokia should be working on the repsitories atm |
| 07:48.30 | KotCzarny | jjo, why? it's morning there |
| 07:48.31 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 07:48.36 | jdiaz | I never reflashed my n810 yet, so I'm a bit lost now... |
| 07:48.41 | jdiaz | I'm reading about initfs |
| 07:48.59 | hugolp | jdiaz: its easy |
| 07:48.59 | GeneralAntilles | You never flashed your N810? |
| 07:49.04 | GeneralAntilles | So you're running on the factory firmware? |
| 07:49.06 | jjo | KotCzarny: I hope I would know if someone was |
| 07:49.08 | GeneralAntilles | old. . . |
| 07:49.17 | jdiaz | GA, correct |
| 07:49.24 | GeneralAntilles | old and very buggy. :\ |
| 07:49.35 | jdiaz | no.. i checked the version |
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| 07:49.43 | kulve | cat /etc/osso_software_version |
| 07:49.44 | kulve | RX-34+RX-44_2008SE_2.2007.50-2_PR_MR0 |
| 07:49.51 | KotCzarny | jjo, any idea why 401? |
| 07:49.53 | jdiaz | i have the penultimate version |
| 07:49.55 | KotCzarny | and how to fix it? |
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| 07:51.26 | jjo | KotCzarny: no idea yet |
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| 07:51.40 | summatusmentis | dang it! I did not realize it was this late |
| 07:51.51 | summatusmentis | I need to stop researching/obsessing over the N810, and sleep |
| 07:52.06 | KotCzarny | jjo, the worst thing is that catalogueer repo also went 401 |
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| 07:52.25 | GeneralAntilles | Just buy it so you can do that. |
| 07:52.55 | summatusmentis | GeneralAntilles: buying it later this week, if I do. I get a $100 discount on it because of a conference I'm flying to tomorrow |
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| 07:58.37 | KotCzarny | hmm |
| 07:58.45 | KotCzarny | great |
| 07:58.56 | KotCzarny | major repository breakage |
| 07:59.13 | RST38h | KILL KILL |
| 07:59.23 | KotCzarny | rst, can you try refreshing repo list? |
| 07:59.28 | KotCzarny | if you get 401 too? |
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| 07:59.36 | RST38h | Left N810 at home |
| 07:59.41 | KotCzarny | hrm |
| 07:59.59 | RST38h | Too warm outside, could not take a jacket with me =) |
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| 08:01.50 | KotCzarny | i hate akamai. |
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| 08:03.20 | KotCzarny | good thing i have a mirror. |
| 08:03.53 | kulve | I guess akamai usually works quite well even under very heavy load? |
| 08:04.12 | KotCzarny | kulve, it's not the problem with load but config |
| 08:04.21 | KotCzarny | or maybe with repos themselves |
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| 08:04.33 | KotCzarny | ok, how to reinstall a package with dpkg? |
| 08:04.45 | KotCzarny | or with apt using local file |
| 08:04.51 | RST38h | dpkg -i |
| 08:04.55 | RST38h | no? |
| 08:05.00 | kulve | I guess yes |
| 08:05.15 | legind | im trying to use insmod to insert modules with specific module options.. why wouldn't this work: insmod usbserial.ko vendor=0x1410 product=0x4100 |
| 08:05.24 | kulve | iirc, dpkg doesn't mind if the package is installed already |
| 08:05.42 | RST38h | http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN1916854720080519 |
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| 08:06.15 | RST38h | hehe |
| 08:06.39 | KotCzarny | black indian? |
| 08:06.47 | RST38h | believe it or not |
| 08:07.00 | RST38h | I guess McCain will be known as "White Eagle"... |
| 08:07.05 | KotCzarny | lol |
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| 08:09.37 | KotCzarny | gcc version 3.4.4 (release) (CodeSourcery ARM 2005q3-2) |
| 08:09.38 | KotCzarny | hah. |
| 08:09.41 | KotCzarny | installed |
| 08:09.52 | KotCzarny | by it didn't created a symlink |
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| 08:10.19 | legind | anyone have experience with os2008 kernel modules |
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| 08:18.17 | jdiaz | argh! this is frustrating... I remembered the root password, and I can check it remembered it correctly, because I did crypt() on my guess and compared the output with the one stored in /etc/passwd, and they match |
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| 08:18.34 | jdiaz | but I can't still login via ssh, because the password is disabled (it has a ! in fromt) |
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| 08:19.06 | jdiaz | if I only could delete that "!"... but of course this needs root privileges |
| 08:19.12 | jdiaz | I guess I have to reflash... |
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| 08:19.37 | GeneralAntilles | jdiaz, get a copy of fanoush's initfs |
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| 08:19.55 | jdiaz | GA, but I can't install it without root privileges, can I? |
| 08:20.05 | GeneralAntilles | You can get the jffs2 it outputs from somebody and flash that with flasher. |
| 08:20.27 | jdiaz | Excuse my ignorance... what would do that flash? |
| 08:20.34 | jdiaz | Would it replace only the boot sector? |
| 08:20.35 | GeneralAntilles | flasher-3.0 |
| 08:20.42 | GeneralAntilles | You can just flash the initfs |
| 08:20.50 | GeneralAntilles | Then that gives you initfs with usb net and ssh/telnet |
| 08:20.57 | *** join/#maemo Mousey (n=littleb@dsl093-144-195.sba1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 08:21.24 | jdiaz | but I can't login via ssh... |
| 08:21.41 | GeneralAntilles | The initfs dropbear server is separate from the rootfs openssh server. |
| 08:21.46 | jdiaz | ah, ok |
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| 08:22.02 | jdiaz | and it has a default well-known root password, I assume |
| 08:22.19 | GeneralAntilles | lol |
| 08:22.31 | GeneralAntilles | It's purpose is for recovering after situations like this. :P |
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| 08:22.47 | jdiaz | empty root passwd, then? |
| 08:22.54 | GeneralAntilles | rootme |
| 08:23.00 | jdiaz | ok |
| 08:23.02 | GeneralAntilles | Download the flasher and read the readme for now. |
| 08:23.06 | GeneralAntilles | http://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/ |
| 08:23.11 | jdiaz | thanks |
| 08:23.19 | jdiaz | I'll come back soon, I'm afraid :) |
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| 08:27.39 | Italodance | http://www.megamobilecontent.com/Nokia-N800-wallpapers.html |
| 08:27.43 | Italodance | nice source |
| 08:28.16 | GeneralAntilles | http://interfacelift.com/wallpaper/index.php?sort=date&aspect=mobile_devices&w=800&h=480 |
| 08:28.53 | GeneralAntilles | I'm still waiting for the command-line method for changing the desktop. . . . |
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| 08:28.59 | GeneralAntilles | I'd like to cycle it every night. |
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| 08:29.10 | Italodance | ummm good idea |
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| 08:31.27 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
| 08:31.34 | KotCzarny | mourning |
| 08:31.49 | GeneralAntilles | Howdy, Jaffa. |
| 08:31.56 | sp3000 | roar |
| 08:32.19 | Italodance | morning |
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| 08:33.13 | GeneralAntilles | jdiaz, I've got the initfs image for you. |
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| 08:37.16 | KotCzarny | ok, is there a cvs .deb of application manager somewhere? |
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| 08:44.25 | jdiaz | GA, really? |
| 08:44.31 | jdiaz | oh! Thank you! Thank you! |
| 08:44.43 | jdiaz | I was writing right now to a colleague asking him help |
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| 08:45.21 | jdiaz | could you please send it to my mail box? |
| 08:45.28 | jdiaz | jldiaz@gmail.com |
| 08:46.23 | GeneralAntilles | http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/initfs.bootmenu.jffs2.zip |
| 08:47.23 | GeneralAntilles | You able to flash now, jdiaz? |
| 08:47.23 | hrw | morning etc |
| 08:47.28 | GeneralAntilles | Howdy, hrw. |
| 08:47.36 | jdiaz | I don't know... I never did it before |
| 08:47.42 | GeneralAntilles | Well, you have stuff? :P |
| 08:47.46 | jdiaz | If I understood correctly, the initfs package contains a flasher |
| 08:47.47 | hrw | did someone tried to flash tablet with rootfs taken from device? |
| 08:47.48 | GeneralAntilles | Linux computer, USB cable and N810. |
| 08:48.03 | jdiaz | it is preferable to flash from the PC than from the tablet? |
| 08:48.10 | GeneralAntilles | You'll have to in this case. |
| 08:48.14 | jdiaz | I have all the hardware, yes |
| 08:48.17 | hrw | I would like to test some things on n810 but do not want to reinstall everything on maemo |
| 08:48.21 | GeneralAntilles | OK, then you're good to go. |
| 08:48.37 | jdiaz | oh, of course, flashing from the tablet would require root privileges... |
| 08:48.44 | KotCzarny | hrw, mmc boot? |
| 08:48.45 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah, that's your problem. ;) |
| 08:48.56 | GeneralAntilles | jdiaz, download the flasher-3.0 from here: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/d3.php |
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| 08:49.32 | jdiaz | ok. I've read in the docs of initfs about some problems on OS2008 |
| 08:49.49 | GeneralAntilles | That's prior to 51-3 |
| 08:50.11 | trickie_ | jdiaz: i have never had trouble with it on OS2008 |
| 08:50.19 | trickie_ | and i have even modified it a bit |
| 08:50.27 | GeneralAntilles | You'll know if you have problems. |
| 08:50.38 | GeneralAntilles | It's an OMAP timing issue that'll prevent the device from starting up. |
| 08:52.05 | jdiaz | oh |
| 08:52.16 | jdiaz | if that happens, the solution would be to reflash the OS? |
| 08:52.22 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah |
| 08:52.35 | GeneralAntilles | It's actually not an initfs thing, anyway |
| 08:52.37 | GeneralAntilles | It's NOLO |
| 08:53.39 | GeneralAntilles | Get the flasher-3.0, jdiaz? |
| 08:54.19 | jdiaz | Well, I've downloaded your initfs, the flahser, and I'll try the whole thing |
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| 08:54.53 | GeneralAntilles | OK, step one is to get the flasher ready |
| 08:54.57 | GeneralAntilles | chmod +x etc |
| 08:55.02 | jdiaz | It will take me a while, because I want to read the docs and understand what I'm doing |
| 08:55.12 | GeneralAntilles | It's very straightforward |
| 08:55.16 | GeneralAntilles | I can explain as I go if you want. |
| 08:55.21 | hrw | KotCzarny: prefer to jffs2 boot due to lack of minisd card |
| 08:55.26 | jdiaz | thank you, your are very kind |
| 08:55.42 | hrw | KotCzarny: internal n810 card filling would take too much time ;) |
| 08:55.52 | GeneralAntilles | Just let me know when you're ready. |
| 08:55.55 | KotCzarny | hrw: but it's simpler to do a backup/restore |
| 08:55.56 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 08:56.28 | *** join/#maemo AD-N770 (n=jep@nat/fluendo/x-01658ec294261578) |
| 08:56.29 | trickie_ | hrw: i use flasher to boot a kernel with out actually flashing it |
| 08:56.33 | jdiaz | ok, I downloaded the program flasher-3.0-static |
| 08:56.43 | trickie_ | hrw: im not sure if you could do the same for a rootfs |
| 08:56.46 | jdiaz | and chmod +x it |
| 08:56.49 | hrw | trickie_: you cannot |
| 08:56.58 | jdiaz | now, I plug my n810 to the PC via usb |
| 08:57.06 | KotCzarny | hrw, you would have to boot to usb |
| 08:57.12 | GeneralAntilles | Make sure everything you need on the N810 is backed up first. |
| 08:57.24 | KotCzarny | or some rsync magic |
| 08:57.53 | jdiaz | you mean what is in the internal 256Mb flash, don't you? |
| 08:57.59 | GeneralAntilles | Yes |
| 08:58.02 | jdiaz | and what is accesible as user... |
| 08:58.04 | GeneralAntilles | It wont do anything to the cards |
| 08:58.11 | jdiaz | because I can't access as root... |
| 08:58.15 | GeneralAntilles | and, actually, it wont be doing anything to the 256MB flash, either. |
| 08:58.24 | GeneralAntilles | But just in case. ;) |
| 08:58.36 | jdiaz | well, I'll backup all under /home/user |
| 08:58.41 | GeneralAntilles | Good plan. |
| 08:58.51 | *** join/#maemo Jonashdsf (n=jonas@wop.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.be) |
| 08:59.50 | jdiaz | I mounted /home/user to my PC via sshfs |
| 08:59.55 | jdiaz | and I'll copy it |
| 09:01.42 | jdiaz | (no, better I'm tar-ing it) |
| 09:10.38 | *** join/#maemo X-Fade_ (n=xfade@91.103-247-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 09:12.13 | *** join/#maemo Sho_ (i=ehs1@kde/hein) |
| 09:12.18 | *** join/#maemo ramo102 (i=3e4d3811@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-df8c2dccb14789f8) |
| 09:14.49 | *** join/#maemo andre__1 (n=user@conference/ubuntu-developer-summit/x-e5db5754a2fcfb32) |
| 09:14.52 | *** join/#maemo kpanic (n=kpanic@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/kpanic) |
| 09:16.58 | kpanic | hi, I'm in the process to port an application to n800, specifically I have to recompile obex-data-server on maemo, I don't know pretty nothing of cross-compiling, is there an howto for maemo? thanks |
| 09:18.14 | KotCzarny | kpanic: 3 words: vmware sdk image |
| 09:18.34 | RST38h | Why does he need vmware? |
| 09:18.59 | KotCzarny | because it doesn't require setting up anything? |
| 09:19.10 | KotCzarny | download and run kind of solution |
| 09:20.09 | RST38h | but don't you have to set up vmware? |
| 09:20.23 | *** join/#maemo Tester_` (n=tester@modemcable254.102-83-70.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 09:20.27 | KotCzarny | i believe it's click and install too |
| 09:21.34 | RST38h | sounds compliczted |
| 09:21.47 | RST38h | why not install it on an existing system? |
| 09:22.06 | KotCzarny | because he is a little lost already? |
| 09:22.07 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 09:22.23 | RST38h | he will just get lost further... |
| 09:23.25 | RST38h | usually suggests installing sb2 in such cases |
| 09:23.37 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 09:23.52 | kpanic | ok, I'll go the vmware route :) |
| 09:26.05 | *** join/#maemo zap (n=zap@lan-233-014.users.mns.ru) |
| 09:26.38 | *** join/#maemo ustunozgur (n=ustun@ug12.vpn.bilkent.edu.tr) |
| 09:27.24 | *** join/#maemo baa (n=n2@76-191-148-47.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 09:28.26 | GeneralAntilles | jdiaz, backed up? |
| 09:29.20 | baa | any consensus on maemo's future, given nokia's acquisition of trolltech? |
| 09:29.31 | *** join/#maemo florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
| 09:29.43 | GeneralAntilles | There's plenty of very official feedback about that. |
| 09:30.17 | GeneralAntilles | There's a lot of good references here, baa: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Tablet_OS#Qt |
| 09:30.25 | Mikho | I'm trying to install Maemo 4 in scratchbox using the installation script, but after downloading a ton of packages the script spawns a number of package-not-configured-yet-errors. What gives? |
| 09:30.29 | baa | thanks! |
| 09:31.00 | GeneralAntilles | In summary, Qt libraries likely to ship with maemo in the winter/spring 2009 |
| 09:31.10 | GeneralAntilles | Nothing else so far |
| 09:31.20 | GeneralAntilles | maybe same application-code sharing between S60 and maemo. |
| 09:31.33 | jdiaz | I've just finished the backup |
| 09:31.39 | GeneralAntilles | OK, next step |
| 09:31.46 | jdiaz | I had problems with the wifi connection during the backup |
| 09:31.48 | GeneralAntilles | Turn the N810 off and plug it into USB on the PC. |
| 09:31.56 | jdiaz | turn it off? |
| 09:31.58 | jdiaz | ok |
| 09:32.17 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah, NOLO handles the flashing so we gotta catch it during boot. |
| 09:32.38 | GeneralAntilles | It's fairly well-charged, right? |
| 09:32.39 | jdiaz | I didn't understand a word, but it's done |
| 09:32.48 | jdiaz | can I connect the charger? |
| 09:32.53 | jdiaz | just in case... |
| 09:32.55 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah, that's one way we can do it. |
| 09:33.18 | GeneralAntilles | But for now, start the flasher with this command: ./flasher-3.0-static -n <myinitfsimage> -f -R |
| 09:33.39 | GeneralAntilles | -n points it to the initfs image (in this case, the .jffs2 image I generated from fanoush's flasher) |
| 09:33.44 | GeneralAntilles | -f tells it to flash that image |
| 09:33.52 | GeneralAntilles | and -R tells it to reboot when it's done. |
| 09:33.55 | *** join/#maemo andre___ (n=user@conference/ubuntu-developer-summit/x-69ce7e47b3880651) |
| 09:34.06 | jdiaz | initfs.bootmenu.jffs2 ? |
| 09:34.10 | GeneralAntilles | Right |
| 09:34.16 | GeneralAntilles | You may or may not need to do it as root. |
| 09:34.24 | GeneralAntilles | Depends on how your machine is set up. |
| 09:34.34 | GeneralAntilles | Hi, andre___. :) |
| 09:35.00 | jdiaz | Suitable USB device not found, waiting |
| 09:35.04 | GeneralAntilles | OK, good. |
| 09:35.09 | GeneralAntilles | Now go back to the N810 |
| 09:35.15 | GeneralAntilles | First, find your charger cable. |
| 09:35.25 | Italodance | guys i found it the volume of n800 is louder |
| 09:35.25 | jdiaz | At hand |
| 09:35.29 | GeneralAntilles | Then hold down the Swap key on the front of the N810 |
| 09:35.33 | GeneralAntilles | Looks like two overlapping squares |
| 09:35.34 | Italodance | N810: 4.13-inch (800 x 480) screen, two hardware buttons, 128cc volume |
| 09:35.41 | GeneralAntilles | Should be the topmost button on the front of the device. |
| 09:35.45 | Italodance | N800: 4.13-inch (800 x 480) screen, three hardware buttons and D-pad, 137cc volume. |
| 09:35.50 | jdiaz | swap? Is it what the manual call it "Home" key? |
| 09:35.55 | GeneralAntilles | Exactly. |
| 09:36.01 | jdiaz | below the camera, ok |
| 09:36.10 | GeneralAntilles | Now, while holding down the Home key, plug in the charger. |
| 09:36.13 | onion_ | yay, nokia linux *phones* someday |
| 09:36.47 | jdiaz | nokia screen with small usb icon |
| 09:36.56 | jdiaz | USB device found found at bus 006, device address 012 |
| 09:36.57 | jdiaz | Error claiming USB interface: Operation not permitted |
| 09:36.57 | GeneralAntilles | flasher should be doing its thing now |
| 09:37.01 | GeneralAntilles | OK |
| 09:37.04 | GeneralAntilles | Set the N810 down |
| 09:37.07 | jdiaz | oops... then sudo |
| 09:37.09 | GeneralAntilles | Right |
| 09:37.26 | jdiaz | I have to switch off the n810 again? |
| 09:37.31 | GeneralAntilles | Nope |
| 09:37.34 | GeneralAntilles | It's ready and waiting |
| 09:37.42 | GeneralAntilles | Just rerun the flasher with sudo and it'll do its thing. |
| 09:37.49 | jdiaz | Flashing initfs... done. |
| 09:37.55 | GeneralAntilles | Now it should restart |
| 09:37.57 | jdiaz | booting menu in n810 |
| 09:38.02 | GeneralAntilles | You can go ahead and pull the USB cable. |
| 09:38.13 | *** join/#maemo zwnj (n=behnam@194.225.70.245) |
| 09:38.42 | jdiaz | Hm... |
| 09:38.46 | jdiaz | set date and time |
| 09:39.01 | GeneralAntilles | The wizard is showing up? |
| 09:39.02 | GeneralAntilles | Interesting |
| 09:39.16 | jdiaz | booting finished, all looks normal |
| 09:39.20 | GeneralAntilles | Good |
| 09:39.27 | GeneralAntilles | Now, go ahead and power it back off. |
| 09:39.42 | GeneralAntilles | Did you grab the initfs_flasher and readme? |
| 09:39.47 | jdiaz | yes |
| 09:40.07 | GeneralAntilles | PC setup for USBnet? |
| 09:40.13 | jdiaz | When switching off, the system sound was choppy... |
| 09:40.23 | jdiaz | nevermind |
| 09:40.35 | jdiaz | no, I do not have USBnet |
| 09:40.42 | jdiaz | I'm using ubuntu in the pc |
| 09:40.44 | GeneralAntilles | OK, you'll have to do that first. |
| 09:40.52 | GeneralAntilles | I'm not sure how to set it up for Linux |
| 09:41.04 | GeneralAntilles | Looks like fanoush has links to a couple of guides in the readme file |
| 09:41.12 | GeneralAntilles | google will probably turn up something useful, too. |
| 09:41.15 | jdiaz | yes I'll do that |
| 09:41.31 | GeneralAntilles | Once that's done, you just need to follow the directions in the readme |
| 09:41.46 | GeneralAntilles | Then you can get in with ssh/telnet and fix the sudoers file. |
| 09:42.36 | GeneralAntilles | You'll have to mount the rootfs (256MB flash) before you can work on it |
| 09:42.48 | GeneralAntilles | He's got that covered in the readme, too. |
| 09:46.02 | jdiaz | hum... I've configured an usb0 interface in the PC |
| 09:46.20 | jdiaz | when I try ifup usb0, i get errors |
| 09:46.22 | *** join/#maemo andre__1 (n=user@conference/ubuntu-developer-summit/x-ea3a4855c29aa603) |
| 09:46.23 | *** join/#maemo ustunozgur_ (n=ustun@88.232.26.150) |
| 09:46.29 | jdiaz | I assume these are due to the usb cable unplugged? |
| 09:46.37 | GeneralAntilles | Don't have a clue. ;) |
| 09:46.50 | jdiaz | ok, then I'll try to continue |
| 09:47.00 | GeneralAntilles | Maybe google the errors |
| 09:47.14 | jdiaz | I have to switch-on the tablet now, with the usb cable plugged to the PC, right? |
| 09:47.30 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah, plug in the USB cable |
| 09:47.33 | GeneralAntilles | Turn it on |
| 09:47.39 | *** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com) |
| 09:47.40 | GeneralAntilles | Then at the bootmenu press the Home key. |
| 09:47.48 | *** join/#maemo k-s[WORK] (n=gustavo@enlightenment/developer/k-s) |
| 09:47.51 | GeneralAntilles | Then you can plug it in and leave it while you get the computer ready. |
| 09:48.31 | jdiaz | oh, there was no bootmenu this time |
| 09:48.34 | jdiaz | only the nokia logo |
| 09:48.40 | jdiaz | and the wizard again... |
| 09:49.02 | GeneralAntilles | No bootmenu at all? |
| 09:49.36 | jdiaz | I think I understand... |
| 09:49.43 | jdiaz | the real booting occurs when I plug the charger |
| 09:49.49 | jdiaz | the charger was still plugged |
| 09:49.53 | GeneralAntilles | Oh, right |
| 09:49.56 | GeneralAntilles | That'd be the issue. |
| 09:50.08 | GeneralAntilles | Gotta power it down completely |
| 09:50.10 | jdiaz | I unplugged it |
| 09:50.13 | GeneralAntilles | Hehe |
| 09:50.14 | jdiaz | the plugged again |
| 09:50.18 | jdiaz | bootmenu appeared |
| 09:50.24 | jdiaz | i hold Home key |
| 09:50.26 | GeneralAntilles | It's actually booted most of the way for charging. |
| 09:50.33 | jdiaz | nothing occured apparently |
| 09:50.38 | jdiaz | the icon "Charging" is displayed |
| 09:50.46 | GeneralAntilles | Need to start it up normally. |
| 09:50.48 | jdiaz | Should be able to ssh now? |
| 09:50.53 | GeneralAntilles | Unplug the charger, wait for it to turn off. |
| 09:50.58 | GeneralAntilles | Then just start it up with the power key. |
| 09:51.02 | *** join/#maemo bilboed-tp (n=bilboed@83.217.98.132) |
| 09:51.03 | jdiaz | ok |
| 09:51.05 | GeneralAntilles | Press the Home key when the bootmenu appears. |
| 09:51.25 | GeneralAntilles | Fun times with runlevels. :P |
| 09:52.12 | jdiaz | how much time need I to hold the home key? |
| 09:52.22 | GeneralAntilles | Should just need to press it, actually. |
| 09:52.27 | jdiaz | I released when the nokia hands screen appeared |
| 09:52.35 | GeneralAntilles | It'll say stuff about usb networking |
| 09:52.39 | jdiaz | no |
| 09:52.41 | jdiaz | no mention to usb |
| 09:52.42 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah, it didn't catch it then. |
| 09:53.05 | jdiaz | the only message was something like "booting from /...." |
| 09:53.17 | GeneralAntilles | Press it once when the bootmenu actually appears. |
| 09:53.34 | jdiaz | the wizard asking the time appears all the times |
| 09:53.58 | jdiaz | should the usb cable be plugged during booting? |
| 09:54.03 | GeneralAntilles | Yes |
| 09:54.42 | jdiaz | a message "Press and hold home key while menu,,," appears for an instant (I have no time to read it completely) |
| 09:54.43 | GeneralAntilles | Though it probably doesn't depend on it. |
| 09:54.49 | GeneralAntilles | Damn |
| 09:54.51 | *** join/#maemo blahdeblah-lap (n=paulgear@124-171-161-161.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 09:55.00 | GeneralAntilles | The timeout on the initfs is set to zero on something. :\ |
| 09:55.17 | jdiaz | Can I have the home key pressed in advance? |
| 09:55.26 | GeneralAntilles | Actually, yes. |
| 09:55.29 | GeneralAntilles | (I just tried it) |
| 09:55.36 | GeneralAntilles | Just release it as soon as you see the bootmenu come up. |
| 09:56.09 | jdiaz | this is tricky :-) |
| 09:56.26 | jdiaz | no luck |
| 09:56.32 | jdiaz | the message is "Booting from flash.." |
| 09:56.41 | jdiaz | (mtdblock4 jffs2) |
| 09:56.49 | GeneralAntilles | OK, let me put together another initfs image with a real timeout. :\ |
| 09:56.59 | jdiaz | btw... there is no a real bootmenu |
| 09:57.05 | jdiaz | only a message line at the top |
| 09:57.21 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah, I screwed it up. |
| 09:57.27 | GeneralAntilles | 2 minutes |
| 09:57.30 | jdiaz | no problem |
| 09:57.33 | blahdeblah-lap | Can anyone tell me what are the big features/fixes in RX-34_2008SE_2.2007.51-3_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin? |
| 09:57.36 | jdiaz | you are being very helpful |
| 09:57.44 | GeneralAntilles | Compared to, blahdeblah-lap? |
| 09:57.51 | hrw | blahdeblah-lap: compared to 50.x? only bootloader |
| 09:57.56 | blahdeblah-lap | .50-2 |
| 09:57.56 | GeneralAntilles | 50-2, just the updated NOLO (which you'd know if you needed) |
| 09:58.16 | blahdeblah-lap | The tableteer web site told me i needed it, so i updated. |
| 09:58.19 | hrw | blahdeblah-lap: if your n800/n810 has problems to start after power off you want nolo from 51.3 |
| 09:58.44 | jdiaz | what kind of problems? |
| 09:58.47 | blahdeblah-lap | I don't suppose it fixes that stupid metalayer-crawler issue where it chews all the CPU and runs down your battery in no time at all? |
| 09:59.02 | hrw | jdiaz: if you did not noticed then do not worry |
| 09:59.04 | jdiaz | Sometimes, I have to press several times the power button |
| 09:59.12 | jdiaz | or hold it |
| 09:59.14 | jdiaz | release it |
| 09:59.17 | jdiaz | hold it again... |
| 09:59.22 | hrw | jdiaz: in short - poweroff, 1h on charger to poweron |
| 09:59.22 | jdiaz | until the led becomes blue |
| 09:59.31 | jdiaz | aha, no my problem them :-) |
| 09:59.48 | hrw | jdiaz: I cursed nokia a lot after bought n810 |
| 10:00.14 | hrw | jdiaz: especially when got informations about time which it took to nokia to test that fix |
| 10:00.34 | GeneralAntilles | blahdeblah-lap, metalayer-crawler shouldn't give you any trouble. Either you've got a recursive symlink or a corrupted card. |
| 10:01.03 | GeneralAntilles | jdiaz, I'm testing this one on mine first to be sure. ;) |
| 10:01.39 | blahdeblah-lap | GeneralAntilles: Regardless, it shouldn't do that! |
| 10:01.41 | jdiaz | can I modify from the PC the initfs image you provided me before? |
| 10:02.02 | GeneralAntilles | If you can figure out how to mount a jffs2 loopback device. ;) |
| 10:02.18 | GeneralAntilles | It's just a matter of changing a line or two if you can. |
| 10:03.18 | GeneralAntilles | shrugs. |
| 10:03.32 | jdiaz | :) I better wait |
| 10:03.36 | GeneralAntilles | Just make sure neither of your cards are corrupted and that you don't have any recursive symlinks. |
| 10:03.44 | GeneralAntilles | Or disable it if you don't need Media player |
| 10:03.47 | jdiaz | I tried to mount the image from nokia, but I hadn't enough ram |
| 10:04.52 | *** join/#maemo ustunozgur_ (n=ustun@88.232.26.150) |
| 10:05.59 | GeneralAntilles | OK, this one's good, jdiaz. |
| 10:06.07 | jdiaz | same url? |
| 10:06.08 | GeneralAntilles | Let me grab it off the device and upload it. |
| 10:06.18 | GeneralAntilles | When it gets uploaded, yes. |
| 10:09.03 | GeneralAntilles | Uploading. . . . |
| 10:09.29 | GeneralAntilles | http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/initfs.bootmenu.jffs2.zip |
| 10:09.40 | GeneralAntilles | Same steps as before, just use this one instead. |
| 10:11.58 | jdiaz | I think this time can do it on my own :-) |
| 10:12.51 | GeneralAntilles | Hey, the good part of this is that you get to remember it even better 'cause you got to do it right! :D |
| 10:12.56 | GeneralAntilles | s/right/twice/ |
| 10:14.21 | hendry | do people here use maemo-sdk or http://www.scratchbox.org/download/scratchbox-apophis/ ? |
| 10:15.52 | *** join/#maemo ustunozgur (n=ustun@88.232.26.150) |
| 10:18.24 | jdiaz | i reflashed this one, but apparently it is the same than before (at least, the same behaviour) |
| 10:18.30 | jdiaz | perhaps the proxy cache... |
| 10:18.35 | GeneralAntilles | Really? |
| 10:18.37 | GeneralAntilles | Weirdness. :\ |
| 10:18.37 | jdiaz | how can I tell if it is a new one? |
| 10:18.52 | GeneralAntilles | Well, the menu layout should be different. |
| 10:18.59 | jdiaz | there is no menu layout |
| 10:19.04 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah. . . . |
| 10:19.14 | jdiaz | I mean.. how can I tell if the zip file is different? |
| 10:19.21 | jdiaz | or my proxy is giving me the same file |
| 10:19.27 | GeneralAntilles | I'll change the name. |
| 10:19.35 | jdiaz | ok, thanks |
| 10:19.49 | GeneralAntilles | http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/initfs.bootmenu.new.jffs2.zip |
| 10:20.53 | jdiaz | weird |
| 10:21.04 | jdiaz | that url gives me an html instead of a zip |
| 10:21.14 | jdiaz | a mostly empty html file |
| 10:21.37 | GeneralAntilles | OK, round 3 |
| 10:22.09 | *** join/#maemo balrog-k1n (n=balrog@ckn144.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 10:22.11 | GeneralAntilles | http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/initfs.new.jffs2.zip |
| 10:23.01 | jdiaz | this one is good |
| 10:23.08 | GeneralAntilles | Woo! |
| 10:23.31 | jdiaz | i mean, the zip file |
| 10:23.39 | jdiaz | however, once flashed, there is no menu :-( |
| 10:23.44 | GeneralAntilles | STILL? |
| 10:23.46 | GeneralAntilles | Yeesh |
| 10:23.51 | GeneralAntilles | Honestly, I don't have a clue. . . . |
| 10:24.42 | GeneralAntilles | You might try holding down the menu key on the slider when it's starting up |
| 10:24.49 | GeneralAntilles | that might force it to bring up the bootmenu |
| 10:25.07 | jdiaz | menu key on the slider? |
| 10:25.22 | GeneralAntilles | Below the dpad |
| 10:25.34 | *** join/#maemo Jonashdsf (n=jonas@wop.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.be) |
| 10:25.50 | jdiaz | yes! |
| 10:26.00 | jdiaz | I have a menu now |
| 10:26.05 | GeneralAntilles | Woo |
| 10:26.08 | GeneralAntilles | Now press home to start USB net |
| 10:26.12 | KotCzarny | by the time he would have clean reflsh already.. |
| 10:26.26 | jdiaz | done |
| 10:26.35 | jdiaz | usb networking mode running |
| 10:27.01 | jdiaz | and usb0 was automagically bring up in the PC |
| 10:27.05 | GeneralAntilles | OK, ssh in from the PC |
| 10:27.13 | sergio | there were some people the other day talking about a problem in Modest |
| 10:27.27 | GeneralAntilles | The mark-as-read issue, sergio? |
| 10:27.32 | sergio | regarding read/unread status of emails |
| 10:27.35 | sergio | yep |
| 10:27.38 | jdiaz | ssh 192.168.10.1 |
| 10:27.42 | sergio | I found the problem :-) |
| 10:27.51 | jdiaz | I get no connection |
| 10:28.06 | jdiaz | ah, sorry |
| 10:28.11 | jdiaz | that was not the correct IP |
| 10:28.12 | sergio | so it'll be fixed in one of the next releases |
| 10:28.16 | GeneralAntilles | 192.168.1.15 |
| 10:28.29 | GeneralAntilles | Awesome, sergio. It'll make a lot of people happy. ;) |
| 10:29.01 | sergio | I'll post about it when that bugfix is included in a public release |
| 10:29.29 | GeneralAntilles | Might if I make mention of the fact that a fix is coming on itT, or should I wait? |
| 10:30.42 | sergio | itT? |
| 10:30.43 | GeneralAntilles | s/Might/Mind/ |
| 10:31.42 | sergio | what's itT? |
| 10:31.49 | GeneralAntilles | internettablettalk.com |
| 10:31.54 | sergio | ah ok :-) |
| 10:32.00 | GeneralAntilles | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13029 |
| 10:32.07 | sergio | yeah of course |
| 10:32.13 | sergio | it's open source |
| 10:32.17 | GeneralAntilles | Excellent, thanks! |
| 10:32.53 | jdiaz | grr... i have to leave |
| 10:32.58 | jdiaz | and still was unable to connect... |
| 10:33.07 | jdiaz | ifconfig problems, tough, not tablet related |
| 10:33.14 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah, it's PC issues now |
| 10:33.18 | GeneralAntilles | Tablet is ready for you whenever. |
| 10:33.30 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah, well, Nokia's involved. ;) There's always been a little touchiness with pre-release stuff. |
| 10:33.43 | jdiaz | thank you very much |
| 10:33.54 | GeneralAntilles | Sure, let me know how it works out |
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| 10:37.17 | Cptnodegard | gps is phun ^_^ |
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| 10:45.53 | b0unc3 | good morning |
| 10:46.32 | b0unc3 | is there any way to see .ppt files on tablet ? |
| 10:47.42 | X-Fade_ | Openoffice? :) |
| 10:48.19 | X-Fade_ | There was this post about it being available, but I think it is a resource hog.. |
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| 10:48.47 | KotCzarny | wrote a simple script to rip images from .ppt |
| 10:48.48 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 10:49.10 | X-Fade_ | Yeah, I think you can also convert them to pdf with openoffice? |
| 10:49.36 | Saviq | yeah, file > save as pdf |
| 10:49.50 | KotCzarny | pdf? save as avi! |
| 10:49.51 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 10:50.05 | Saviq | right, and that's no resource hog? ;) |
| 10:50.08 | KotCzarny | or even better mpeg2 stream |
| 10:50.30 | KotCzarny | well, you start with .ppt, so why stop in the middle of the fun? |
| 10:50.55 | jdiaz | upload it to google docs |
| 10:51.09 | jdiaz | and use the browser to see it |
| 10:52.42 | jdiaz | (GeneralAntilles, I'm back, but from a different computer without usbnet. I can't continue the recovering process) |
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| 10:53.03 | GeneralAntilles | Well, a straight reflash is always an option at this point. ;) |
| 10:53.16 | GeneralAntilles | You already backed up your user folder at least. |
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| 10:55.21 | jdiaz | I'll wait until I can continue the recovering process in my office PC |
| 10:55.46 | GeneralAntilles | Alternatively, you could try beating it with a stick until it gives up all of its secrets. :D |
| 10:55.50 | jdiaz | I can also prepare a SD "rescue" card, I guess |
| 10:56.32 | blahdeblah-lap | GeneralAntilles: Is fsck.vfat -fnvV of my SD card on a desktop system a good enough test to prove no corruption? |
| 10:57.00 | GeneralAntilles | Should be, blahdeblah-lap. |
| 10:57.04 | GeneralAntilles | Both cards? |
| 10:57.55 | blahdeblah-lap | Yep |
| 10:58.43 | GeneralAntilles | Well, the only other reproducible thing that causes metalayer to go crazy is recursive symlinks. |
| 10:59.03 | blahdeblah-lap | Are any 3rd party apps known to create them? |
| 10:59.26 | GeneralAntilles | I suppose that's a possibility |
| 10:59.32 | GeneralAntilles | But I don't know of any. |
| 11:03.19 | jdiaz | there exists some kind of "rescue disk" for NIT, which can be copied into the external flash memory, and then used to boot? |
| 11:03.30 | KotCzarny | not yet |
| 11:03.40 | KotCzarny | though you can create copy of your normal os |
| 11:03.41 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 11:03.45 | KotCzarny | and run from it as usual |
| 11:03.53 | jdiaz | only mount, vi, and busybox would be required |
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| 11:03.59 | jdiaz | I only need to edit /etc/passwd! |
| 11:04.01 | GeneralAntilles | jdiaz, you could always stick Debian on an ext2 partition on the card and boot that. |
| 11:04.05 | KotCzarny | then it's included in fanoush initfs |
| 11:04.07 | KotCzarny | i think |
| 11:04.08 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 11:04.28 | Stskeeps | did anyone manage to do usbnet with a windows machine yet, per chance? |
| 11:06.02 | blahdeblah-lap | GeneralAntilles: Are there any tools to find recursive symlinks? |
| 11:06.13 | GeneralAntilles | metalayer-crawler? :D |
| 11:06.21 | blahdeblah-lap | Well, it's working! |
| 11:07.00 | blahdeblah-lap | This is freaking driving me crazy |
| 11:07.08 | blahdeblah-lap | goes back to the bug 1842 workaround |
| 11:07.11 | GeneralAntilles | Just kill it and move on. :P |
| 11:07.46 | blahdeblah-lap | But every time i reboot it will come back! |
| 11:08.26 | Stskeeps | http://maemo.org/community/wiki/USBnetworkingWinXP/ <- neat :) |
| 11:08.32 | blahdeblah-lap | Hmmm... Bug 1842 doesn't seem to have that workaround - maybe it was another one... |
| 11:09.07 | GeneralAntilles | There's a number of workaround on itT. |
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| 11:13.35 | K-Fox | hi |
| 11:14.10 | K-Fox | fennec browser is fast than microb? |
| 11:15.49 | GeneralAntilles | Not in practice |
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| 11:16.26 | GeneralAntilles | It's based on a much newer version of Firefox that has a lot of memory and js optimizations |
| 11:16.41 | GeneralAntilles | but Fennec's is pretty slow and broken otherwise right now. |
| 11:16.42 | K-Fox | ok |
| 11:17.04 | GeneralAntilles | MicroB will be merged with trunk for Diablo+1 |
| 11:17.36 | GeneralAntilles | Once Fennec and MicroB are inline, then MicroB should be a little faster on the NITs. |
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| 11:48.27 | GeneralAntilles | Ugh: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=183607#post183607 |
| 11:48.37 | GeneralAntilles | Like we need more fragmentation on the software front. |
| 11:49.19 | KotCzarny | well, seems like another repo |
| 11:49.20 | KotCzarny | :> |
| 11:49.50 | X-Fade_ | I'm biased, so I might want to stay out of this one ;) |
| 11:50.08 | KotCzarny | x-fade: no! |
| 11:50.13 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 11:50.21 | KotCzarny | just kidding |
| 11:50.26 | GeneralAntilles | It seems like a very ill-considered decision. . . . |
| 11:50.38 | GeneralAntilles | What's wrong with setting up some sort of syndication from garage/downloads? |
| 11:50.40 | X-Fade_ | GeneralAntilles: Well, without discussion... |
| 11:50.52 | GeneralAntilles | We've already got a perfectly good system in place. . . . |
| 11:50.58 | KotCzarny | well |
| 11:51.04 | KotCzarny | perfectly isn't a good word for it |
| 11:51.05 | KotCzarny | :> |
| 11:52.43 | KotCzarny | well, reading that post it's even worse.. |
| 11:52.54 | KotCzarny | it's encouraging users to post their own repos |
| 11:52.55 | KotCzarny | :) |
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| 12:09.18 | hrw | GeneralAntilles: maemo so-called community did not learnt anything from Zaurus guys |
| 12:09.42 | *** join/#maemo Dar (n=Dar_K@nat/sun/x-9b54fe09e554f71c) |
| 12:09.46 | hrw | GeneralAntilles: Zaurus had many distros and users used even antique ones. lot of fragmentation... |
| 12:10.07 | hrw | GeneralAntilles: now maemo users follow same direction within one distro |
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| 12:19.01 | Sakkath | Will aircrack-ng work on on n800? |
| 12:19.55 | Sakkath | http://mfresh-n800.blogspot.com/2007/08/using-aircrack-ng-suite-on-nokia-n800.html says 'become root'. I don't know the user psasword and it can't be changed with passwd |
| 12:20.07 | hrw | ~becameroot |
| 12:20.13 | hrw | ~becomeroot |
| 12:20.26 | KotCzarny | ~fail |
| 12:20.27 | infobot | Sorry, kotczarny, you have failed. |
| 12:20.27 | Sakkath | ty |
| 12:20.29 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 12:20.53 | KotCzarny | hrw, do you know owner of that bot? |
| 12:21.27 | Sakkath | . |
| 12:21.39 | Cptnodegard | infobot is i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt * TimRiker's infobot |
| 12:21.43 | GeneralAntilles | Sakkath, nitapps.com has easyroot |
| 12:21.52 | GeneralAntilles | Just type "root" to gain a root shell once it's installed. |
| 12:22.00 | KotCzarny | cpt: but do you know him? |
| 12:22.03 | Sakkath | ok |
| 12:22.24 | Cptnodegard | no |
| 12:22.47 | KotCzarny | then it's not helping much |
| 12:23.09 | KotCzarny | bots shouldn't run unattended |
| 12:23.10 | hrw | infobot: becomeroot is on Maemo to get root run "sudo gainroot" or dig in maemo.org wiki for proper howto |
| 12:23.11 | infobot | hrw: okay |
| 12:23.15 | hrw | ~becomeroot |
| 12:23.16 | infobot | [becomeroot] on Maemo to get root run "sudo gainroot" or dig in maemo.org wiki for proper howto |
| 12:23.52 | KotCzarny | grammar failed? |
| 12:23.53 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 12:24.24 | GeneralAntilles | infobot, easyroot is an easy way to gain a root shell. http://nitapps.com/dists/chinook/user/binary-armel/easyroot_1.0-4_armel.deb |
| 12:24.25 | infobot | ...but easyroot is already something else... |
| 12:24.31 | GeneralAntilles | ~easyroot |
| 12:24.32 | infobot | it has been said that easyroot is an easy way to get root access on OS2008 and can be found at http://nitapps.com |
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| 12:24.52 | KotCzarny | infobot: root is to get root look for: easyroot, becomeroot or ssh |
| 12:24.52 | infobot | ACTION uses a keylogger to pwnz all is to get root look for: easyroot, becomeroot or ssh 's boxen. |
| 12:25.05 | KotCzarny | o.o |
| 12:25.09 | KotCzarny | ~root |
| 12:25.09 | infobot | from memory, root is not a Good Thing to use when using IRC. Please use a different account. |
| 12:25.15 | KotCzarny | fail. |
| 12:25.17 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 12:25.17 | hrw | KotCzarny: remember that this bot is not only #maemo |
| 12:25.29 | KotCzarny | hrw: then double fail |
| 12:25.42 | hrw | KotCzarny: maemo suxx anyway |
| 12:25.48 | KotCzarny | hrw: lol |
| 12:26.02 | KotCzarny | hrw: anyway, have you seen my bootmenu? |
| 12:26.03 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 12:26.20 | hrw | KotCzarny: have it installed, never used |
| 12:26.32 | KotCzarny | http://mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/n800/bootmenu/bootmenu-kc-colors.jpg |
| 12:26.33 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 12:27.04 | hrw | KotCzarny: bootmenu suxx when kernel outputs data |
| 12:27.20 | KotCzarny | you can configure it for this |
| 12:27.25 | Sakkath | cal_read_block(r&d_mode): size zero, block not found? Enable RD mode if you want to break your device |
| 12:28.42 | Sakkath | I need pc connection for R&D mode? |
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| 12:28.48 | Sakkath | damn |
| 12:29.05 | hrw | Sakkath: get used to it |
| 12:29.11 | Sakkath | dropbear? |
| 12:29.35 | GeneralAntilles | Sakkath, install easyroot or becomeroot or ssh |
| 12:29.40 | Sakkath | Oh, I can install becomeroot |
| 12:29.48 | Sakkath | I can't connect to wireless atm though, i don't know what's wrong |
| 12:29.58 | Sakkath | 'Network connection error' <-- not too verbose |
| 12:33.20 | RST38h | New Canola is out! |
| 12:33.25 | KotCzarny | yes |
| 12:33.27 | RST38h | [and I am away from my tablet!] |
| 12:34.44 | Cptnodegard | away from your tableT+ o.o |
| 12:34.46 | Cptnodegard | omfg |
| 12:34.54 | Cptnodegard | cruel person |
| 12:34.58 | RST38h | weeps silently |
| 12:35.31 | Cptnodegard | operates a BT device into his arms and makes an app that goes "hi daddy" when connection is made between device and tablet |
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| 12:38.18 | hrw | RST38h: no samba support? |
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| 12:45.59 | Khertan_TheReal | Hi ! |
| 12:46.57 | *** join/#maemo khertan_ (n=khertan@AAmiens-151-1-59-54.w83-192.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 12:47.39 | Khertan | :) |
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| 12:56.57 | kcome | my N810 :P |
| 12:56.58 | kcome | http://img501.imageshack.us/my.php?image=20080520008bd1.jpg |
| 12:57.31 | KotCzarny | looks stock |
| 12:57.33 | KotCzarny | ;) |
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| 13:00.32 | Blom | FAN! |
| 13:00.40 | Blom | Fajka i alla fall. |
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| 13:09.34 | RST38h | is happy to see that he is not the only one with N810 front panel slightly caved in at the right side |
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| 13:22.55 | RST38h | "A former Gentoo developer yesterday revealed that he has been working on a new hardcore Linux distribution, dubbed Exherbo." |
| 13:23.22 | KotCzarny | lets hope actual distro will be better than name |
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| 13:23.33 | RST38h | [and these people used to trash BSD for "many forks"?] |
| 13:23.45 | KotCzarny | 'these' ? |
| 13:23.53 | KotCzarny | it's a one person |
| 13:23.56 | RST38h | Kot: will be another crapload of pseudo-hardcore stuff |
| 13:23.58 | KotCzarny | at least from your citation |
| 13:23.59 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 13:24.14 | KotCzarny | well, for me slacware is quite hardcore |
| 13:24.15 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 13:24.18 | RST38h | Kot: I don't mean this particular guy, I mean the tendency |
| 13:24.18 | GeneralAntilles | Hehe, I know the guy. |
| 13:24.21 | GeneralAntilles | he's no chump |
| 13:24.31 | kulve | "OK, I Want to Try Exherbo |
| 13:24.32 | kulve | No you don't." |
| 13:24.41 | RST38h | GA: Wants to be even more "hardcore" than Slackware? =) |
| 13:24.43 | kulve | "In Conclusion |
| 13:24.44 | kulve | It's not that we hate you (unless we do). It's just that we have nothing to offer you, and you have nothing to offer us." |
| 13:24.59 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 13:25.02 | Veggen | KotCzarny/RST38h: Getting rid of forks like that can't be done without getting rid of some of the creativity surrounding Linux. |
| 13:25.06 | thopiekar | hi @ all |
| 13:25.12 | GeneralAntilles | It's not a "hardcore" epenis issue. |
| 13:25.18 | RST38h | "-- Then why the hell did you write this in the first place?" |
| 13:26.01 | KotCzarny | 'just because he can' ? |
| 13:26.02 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 13:26.05 | RST38h | Veggen: I do not see creativity here. I see people continually repackaging somebody else's work adorned with their own configuration/management/installation/packaging scripts |
| 13:26.24 | trickie_ | its not a fork |
| 13:26.34 | GeneralAntilles | It's largely new stuff, actually. |
| 13:26.37 | RST38h | it is another distro |
| 13:26.37 | trickie_ | it has some in common from gentoo land |
| 13:26.39 | Veggen | RST38h: but sometimes, someone makes something radically better or in a better way than done before. |
| 13:26.54 | RST38h | Veggen: sometimes yes. very very rarely. |
| 13:27.00 | KotCzarny | name is bad, still |
| 13:27.00 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 13:27.26 | GeneralAntilles | uproot in latin. |
| 13:27.36 | Veggen | RST38h: True, but still - since there is so much interest in Linux, it's not possible to differ between good forks and bad forks like that. |
| 13:27.43 | thopiekar | i've got a problem getting up eth0 of my usb-lan adapter... it is using the asix.ko - module... if i set in the command in the console: ifconfig eth0 up.. my n800 freezes and the screen "crashes"... how can i fix this and get eth0 working?? |
| 13:27.52 | RST38h | GA: So, what is this guy uprooting, anyway? |
| 13:28.16 | Veggen | RST38h: THere's noone to tell someone that "this is a bad fork". And sometimes, that's a good thing, because sometimes something that looks bad ends up being the good choice. |
| 13:28.27 | Veggen | In the end, the ability to fork leads to better systems. |
| 13:28.44 | KotCzarny | well |
| 13:28.58 | KotCzarny | in commerce many brands fork |
| 13:29.08 | KotCzarny | just to confuse customers |
| 13:29.09 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 13:29.19 | RST38h | Veggen: with the current number of distros, the first thing that comes to mind is "let's wait until these guys figure out just what exactly Linux is" :) |
| 13:29.21 | KotCzarny | 'hey, we've got something new' |
| 13:29.22 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 13:29.24 | Khertan | RST38h > pfff |
| 13:29.40 | KotCzarny | linux is a kernel |
| 13:29.41 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 13:29.42 | *** join/#maemo _matthias_ (n=matthias@ap164126.wlan.jku.at) |
| 13:29.51 | Khertan | lol |
| 13:29.52 | RST38h | And no, as a layman, I will not buy "Linux is a Kernel!" crap ;) |
| 13:30.11 | RST38h | Kot <-- types faster ;) |
| 13:30.24 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 13:30.33 | KotCzarny | unless you talk about linux os |
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| 13:32.27 | KotCzarny | rst: but hey, if i take away all the libs, is it still linux? |
| 13:32.41 | RST38h | "...in related news, a company called Ulteo took a well known public coLinux project and advertises it as 'Ulteo Virtual Desktop'" :) |
| 13:33.02 | RST38h | Kot: My guess is, it is not Linux unless it works |
| 13:33.18 | KotCzarny | rst: ok, kernel + one static binary |
| 13:33.20 | RST38h | Kot: Which means, you are gonna have kernel, libs, and apps |
| 13:33.21 | KotCzarny | is it linux? |
| 13:33.22 | KotCzarny | :) |
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| 13:33.37 | RST38h | Probably, but do not try selling it to users =) |
| 13:33.41 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 13:33.43 | KotCzarny | why |
| 13:33.54 | KotCzarny | 'do one thing, but do it good' |
| 13:33.55 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 13:34.06 | RST38h | like...like...like run BASH! |
| 13:34.17 | KotCzarny | you run, then you bash? |
| 13:34.31 | *** join/#maemo jegp (n=jegp@main.netvision.com.py) |
| 13:34.44 | RST38h | Kot: you run, then customers bash you |
| 13:34.56 | KotCzarny | you need firewall then |
| 13:35.07 | KotCzarny | burn the bastards |
| 13:35.48 | *** join/#maemo jpuderer (n=jpuderer@76-10-137-50.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 13:37.25 | czr | just hope they don't install the firewall the wrong way around |
| 13:37.43 | RST38h | Kot: you said ONE binary ;) |
| 13:37.46 | KotCzarny | 'fire in the hole' ? |
| 13:37.47 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 13:38.18 | czr | RST38h, one could use the kuserm (or smt like that) that allows you to run executables in kernel, then fuze the initramfs into the kernel image. |
| 13:38.27 | KotCzarny | rst, well, you can always links some firewall.o to your binary |
| 13:38.28 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 13:38.30 | czr | although maybe the latter part would be enough.. |
| 13:38.47 | KotCzarny | *link |
| 13:38.53 | *** join/#maemo hiho-man (n=ichwills@p549E5E6E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:39.01 | KotCzarny | or load your apps as modules? |
| 13:39.02 | KotCzarny | :> |
| 13:39.10 | RST38h | load them as kernel modules, right |
| 13:39.15 | KotCzarny | that would be fun |
| 13:39.15 | KotCzarny | :> |
| 13:39.18 | RST38h | include GIMP as a kernel module |
| 13:39.26 | GeneralAntilles | Haha |
| 13:39.33 | RST38h | then sell the whole pile as a "new virtualization paradigm" |
| 13:39.36 | *** join/#maemo alextreme (n=alex@82-171-161-1.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 13:39.39 | *** part/#maemo thopiekar (n=thopieka@p57A13889.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:39.53 | KotCzarny | you can even make them disposable |
| 13:39.58 | KotCzarny | ie. you can even them once |
| 13:40.03 | KotCzarny | then you need new licence |
| 13:40.04 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 13:40.06 | GeneralAntilles | With a monolithic kernel, anything is possible! |
| 13:40.28 | KotCzarny | s/even/load/ |
| 13:40.35 | hiho-man | http://xrl.us/bkj9x |
| 13:40.59 | KotCzarny | hiho-man: obscure language |
| 13:41.25 | KotCzarny | hates spam in foreign languages |
| 13:41.56 | hrw | ;) |
| 13:42.33 | KotCzarny | hmm |
| 13:42.42 | KotCzarny | jvm as kernel module |
| 13:42.46 | Khertan | a stupid online game |
| 13:42.47 | KotCzarny | mmm |
| 13:43.03 | KotCzarny | they put it in arm, so why not in kernel? |
| 13:43.17 | Khertan | KotCzarny > kernel module should not eat more that 512Mo of RAM ... |
| 13:43.33 | KotCzarny | should not != can not |
| 13:43.34 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 13:43.55 | KotCzarny | and what unit it is? |
| 13:43.55 | Khertan | yeah of course ... so jvm in a kernel module ... |
| 13:44.03 | KotCzarny | Mega ovums? |
| 13:44.04 | *** join/#maemo vik_ (n=vik@atjizj6ycp.adsl.datanet.hu) |
| 13:44.05 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 13:44.12 | Khertan | arf ... sorry i'm french |
| 13:44.15 | Khertan | Mb |
| 13:44.20 | KotCzarny | Mega bits? |
| 13:44.21 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 13:45.03 | Khertan | i'm a french dev ... which code in a french language ... (4D ... for who know) |
| 13:45.17 | Khertan | so sometimes ... the switch isn't well made ... |
| 13:45.20 | czr | I thought 4D was just time. not a french programming language. |
| 13:45.27 | czr | learns new things |
| 13:45.30 | Khertan | ... 4D is it |
| 13:45.42 | *** join/#maemo b0unc3_ (n=b0unc3@host-84-223-154-118.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 13:45.42 | Khertan | http://4d.fr/ |
| 13:45.45 | Khertan | :) |
| 13:45.49 | Khertan | it s a rad ... |
| 13:45.50 | czr | adfr? |
| 13:45.50 | KotCzarny | another spam? |
| 13:45.55 | czr | it's like asdfasdf |
| 13:46.08 | *** join/#maemo hfwilke (n=hwilke_@gateway.grayinsco.com) |
| 13:46.09 | Khertan | 4d.com |
| 13:46.10 | Khertan | :) |
| 13:46.14 | KotCzarny | yeah |
| 13:46.21 | KotCzarny | obscure language too |
| 13:46.27 | Khertan | too :) |
| 13:46.33 | czr | with gurgling sounds and stuff? |
| 13:46.40 | Khertan | lol |
| 13:46.40 | czr | gurgle(params) |
| 13:47.04 | KotCzarny | but motto they have in english |
| 13:47.06 | KotCzarny | weirdos |
| 13:47.08 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 13:47.40 | Khertan | what's is funny is that the programming language is available in French, English, Deutsh, and Spain language |
| 13:47.48 | *** join/#maemo eton (n=eton@ppp-58-8-8-222.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 13:47.57 | czr | what. no finnish? |
| 13:48.03 | czr | pities the fools |
| 13:48.04 | KotCzarny | you can translate c names to french too |
| 13:48.12 | KotCzarny | not that it would make much sense |
| 13:48.13 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 13:48.15 | czr | the parser would be much more interesting |
| 13:48.17 | Khertan | and is stored in the file as bytecode ... so you can see a french source code |
| 13:48.29 | czr | french sauce code. |
| 13:48.29 | Khertan | in spain |
| 13:48.30 | KotCzarny | french bytes.. mm |
| 13:48.34 | Khertan | lol |
| 13:48.44 | Khertan | but ... it s bit lazy |
| 13:48.57 | KotCzarny | for lazy projects i like php |
| 13:48.58 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 13:49.20 | Khertan | i prefer goto++ |
| 13:49.32 | czr | does it have turtles? |
| 13:49.34 | KotCzarny | goto is to stiff |
| 13:49.39 | KotCzarny | *too |
| 13:49.39 | Khertan | http://www.gotopp.org//index.html.en |
| 13:49.47 | czr | without turtles the language is not useful! |
| 13:49.53 | czr | a language needs to have turtles. |
| 13:49.59 | czr | or snakes |
| 13:50.19 | KotCzarny | snakes on a language? |
| 13:50.30 | czr | "Designed in the middle of the nineties by the scientists of ©NIACsoftware, this brand new method to approach the computer science will change your life! " |
| 13:50.36 | czr | somehow I doubt that sentence.. |
| 13:50.41 | Khertan | lol |
| 13:50.51 | czr | KotCzarny, :-) |
| 13:51.10 | Khertan | goto++ (or gotopp) tg |
| 13:51.10 | KotCzarny | available in drug store near you? |
| 13:51.14 | czr | "A new version of the GOTO++ is available! It is the 0.30 version and it adds a lot of bugs, yahoo!" |
| 13:51.15 | Khertan | the best french language |
| 13:51.21 | Khertan | §1 |
| 13:51.21 | Khertan | GOTOPRINTDUTEXTE() ; «Hello World !» |
| 13:51.21 | Khertan | GOTO which do nothing |
| 13:51.21 | Khertan | GOTOGOTO() *(1) |
| 13:51.28 | czr | now I know why microsoft wanted to buy yahoo. |
| 13:51.44 | Khertan | yahoo is not french ? |
| 13:51.45 | czr | so that they could migrate all their INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY from VB to Pogo++ |
| 13:52.11 | czr | my logic is convoluted, |
| 13:52.28 | czr | "The language has been sligthy modified but the documentation is not entirely up to date, in order to stiffen the transition." |
| 13:52.47 | czr | somehow I get the impression that the dev team of GOTO++ strives to add problems that most other people try to get rid of :-) |
| 13:53.00 | RST38h | liked PERL in Latin more |
| 13:53.21 | KotCzarny | in piglatin? |
| 13:53.30 | RST38h | more or less |
| 13:53.33 | RST38h | a moment |
| 13:53.48 | Khertan | CreerTortue () :Fenetre |
| 13:53.48 | Khertan | ? Tortue |
| 13:53.52 | RST38h | http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~damian/papers/HTML/Perligata.html |
| 13:54.05 | Khertan | there is a function CreerTortue ... (in english CreateTurtle) |
| 13:54.15 | czr | sorry but are these people serious? ( http://www.gotopp.org//images/logo10.jpg ) |
| 13:54.16 | KotCzarny | did you know that latin was lacking letter 'v' ? |
| 13:54.44 | RST38h | czr: no. did you have to ask?:) |
| 13:54.51 | RST38h | kot: yes |
| 13:54.57 | Khertan | |
| 13:54.57 | Khertan | GOTOCHEPA (GOTODONTKNOW) |
| 13:54.57 | Khertan | This command is very similar to GOTOGOTO, the only difference is that it is possible to return to education which follows with a REGOTO. |
| 13:54.57 | Khertan | It is possible to recover the value returned by REGOTO. |
| 13:55.00 | czr | RST38h, long day.. I've lost my humour :-) |
| 13:55.10 | RST38h | Kot: it was lacking U actually |
| 13:55.14 | RST38h | Use V for U |
| 13:55.17 | *** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@gozur.sunflowerbroadband.com) |
| 13:55.24 | KotCzarny | or other way round |
| 13:55.25 | Khertan | this is not a serious language ... but it work |
| 13:55.26 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 13:55.31 | Khertan | there is binding for gtk |
| 13:55.35 | RST38h | Check the nearest courthouse in the US for confirmation |
| 13:55.37 | Khertan | and a real compiler |
| 13:55.44 | disq | ooh grumby is good |
| 13:55.46 | KotCzarny | rst, yeah, i know |
| 13:55.49 | Khertan | but i ll never use this ... |
| 13:55.51 | RST38h | those places usually have thoughtful latin inscriptions at the front |
| 13:55.53 | czr | Khertan, does it compile itself? |
| 13:55.58 | czr | Khertan, it's not a real compiler otherwise. |
| 13:56.12 | Khertan | i think no ... |
| 13:56.15 | *** join/#maemo K-Fox (n=wow@211.197.45.50) |
| 13:56.25 | czr | RST38h, like "HEE HEE, NO ONE WILL EVER BOTHER TRANSLATING THIS ANYWAY" |
| 13:56.41 | czr | in latin it will sound profound. |
| 13:56.47 | KotCzarny | or 'KEEP RIGHT' |
| 13:57.15 | KotCzarny | maybe in 3000 years some guys would find ruins of our civilization |
| 13:57.22 | RST38h | and be puzzled |
| 13:57.39 | czr | damn, I knew one day a book that I have would become handy |
| 13:57.46 | czr | "Pulle! Visne Frustum?" |
| 13:57.57 | Khertan | http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ook |
| 13:57.58 | czr | (Polly want a cracker? in Latin) |
| 13:57.59 | RST38h | Plastic Ronald McDonald statues would probably generate the biggest amount of scholarly papers |
| 13:58.32 | czr | or: Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant! |
| 13:58.44 | czr | (May faulty logic undermine your entire philosophy!) |
| 13:58.50 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 13:59.33 | czr | Foras gradiamur (Let's step outside) |
| 13:59.33 | GeneralAntilles | The idols of our civilization, RST38h? :D |
| 13:59.44 | RST38h | GA: Most likely |
| 14:00.17 | KotCzarny | well, plastic is edible |
| 14:00.19 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 14:00.32 | RST38h | Would probably qualify as a minor deity local to thenorthwestern indochina |
| 14:01.05 | czr | videris humilor seniorque coram |
| 14:01.12 | czr | it sounds profound, I tell you |
| 14:01.19 | czr | (You look shorter and older in person) |
| 14:01.50 | GeneralAntilles | Ha |
| 14:02.42 | RST38h | If Ronald is lucky, he may even be considered a God of Pedophilia |
| 14:02.50 | KotCzarny | unlikely |
| 14:03.05 | KotCzarny | more like god of bad diet |
| 14:03.08 | RST38h | With all those pictures of Him with children? With that Smile? |
| 14:03.30 | RST38h | Well, hamburgers won't survive into that time, but advertising materials will |
| 14:03.42 | KotCzarny | paper is edible too |
| 14:03.58 | RST38h | Everything is edible under certain circumstances =) |
| 14:04.07 | KotCzarny | yes |
| 14:05.03 | RST38h | Forget the Ronald though, the really big question is what archeologists would think of all those iPod docks. |
| 14:05.14 | *** join/#maemo smancke (n=smancke@gate.tarent.de) |
| 14:05.29 | KotCzarny | there would be no music on them |
| 14:05.32 | KotCzarny | by that time |
| 14:05.38 | RST38h | no iPods either |
| 14:06.02 | KotCzarny | iNtropia |
| 14:06.09 | RST38h | They would probably not be classified to be the same kind of device, with all those shapes |
| 14:06.37 | *** join/#maemo lopz (n=gentoo-d@unaffiliated/lopz) |
| 14:06.41 | KotCzarny | that depends if aliens profile us already |
| 14:06.42 | RST38h | Would look like somebody sticking weird sockets into household items |
| 14:07.07 | lopz | morning |
| 14:07.17 | KotCzarny | stick it in a hole |
| 14:07.27 | RST38h | It does not: an iPod dock has not constant shape, so whatever aliens think of us, they would have to figure out that all those pieces of plastic srve the same function |
| 14:07.38 | *** join/#maemo beford (n=beford@190.68.14.34) |
| 14:07.54 | czr | "it must be some kind of device where these things plugged themselves to watch simulporn" |
| 14:08.15 | KotCzarny | it's shiny |
| 14:08.19 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 14:08.26 | czr | right. "shiny simulporn" |
| 14:09.24 | KotCzarny | it has a button |
| 14:09.51 | czr | to join/detach from the session obviously. |
| 14:10.08 | KotCzarny | death ray |
| 14:10.25 | KotCzarny | well, maybe not originals |
| 14:10.34 | czr | or. maybe. "Summon Dragon" |
| 14:10.39 | RST38h | Kot: You reminded me |
| 14:10.41 | KotCzarny | but some chinese models have it |
| 14:10.48 | RST38h | Forget McDonalds. Forget iPod docks. |
| 14:10.51 | *** join/#maemo benh (n=benh@nat/ibm/x-d2ba34a9eec85a1e) |
| 14:11.05 | RST38h | What about StarWars light saber replicas? |
| 14:11.13 | czr | heh |
| 14:11.14 | KotCzarny | plastic |
| 14:11.17 | KotCzarny | edible |
| 14:11.18 | RST38h | If you were an archeologist, what would you say of THAT |
| 14:11.30 | czr | RST38h, piece of some fancy exhaust piping system? |
| 14:11.30 | KotCzarny | rst: do they vibrate? |
| 14:11.31 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 14:11.58 | KotCzarny | they are just dildos for boys |
| 14:12.14 | KotCzarny | psychological dildos |
| 14:12.15 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 14:13.26 | KotCzarny | spaceballs |
| 14:13.27 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 14:13.34 | RST38h | I agree with Kot on dildo function |
| 14:14.42 | KotCzarny | that reminds me, http://imagechan.net/img/5512/Wrong%20convention/ |
| 14:14.43 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 14:15.33 | RST38h | Ewoks! |
| 14:16.36 | *** join/#maemo andre__1 (n=user@conference/ubuntu-developer-summit/x-f44551b519ca4fb1) |
| 14:17.05 | KotCzarny | heh |
| 14:18.01 | *** part/#maemo fr01 (n=jex_o_je@212.30.2.18) |
| 14:19.00 | jdiaz | back |
| 14:19.11 | jdiaz | GeneralAntilles, are you still here? |
| 14:19.15 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah |
| 14:19.50 | *** join/#maemo fr01 (n=jex_o_je@212.30.2.18) |
| 14:20.30 | jdiaz | hi |
| 14:20.47 | jdiaz | I finally got the usb network connection |
| 14:21.11 | jdiaz | I'm root now. How is named the device which represents the old root filesystem? |
| 14:21.27 | KotCzarny | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:21.28 | KotCzarny | probably |
| 14:21.29 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 14:21.36 | jdiaz | thanks |
| 14:21.44 | GeneralAntilles | The mount command is in fanoush's readme file. |
| 14:21.57 | jdiaz | oops... the tablet shut down |
| 14:22.05 | jdiaz | probably too much time without activity? |
| 14:22.15 | jdiaz | but I had a telnet connection established... |
| 14:22.21 | KotCzarny | maybe watchdog |
| 14:22.23 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 14:22.44 | KotCzarny | or accidental ctrl-d |
| 14:23.27 | jdiaz | mount /dev/mtdblock4 /mnt/new_root/ |
| 14:23.29 | jdiaz | doesnt work |
| 14:23.43 | jdiaz | Invalid argument |
| 14:24.18 | GeneralAntilles | mount -t jffs2 /dev/mtdblock4 /tmp/mnt |
| 14:24.20 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12 (n=faheem@host-84-9-55-182.dslgb.com) |
| 14:24.55 | jdiaz | yeah |
| 14:25.20 | jdiaz | ok, mounted, and /etc/passwd edited |
| 14:25.21 | RST38h | Holographic Bill Gates terrorizes Kuala Lumpur tech conference |
| 14:25.22 | jdiaz | rebooting noe |
| 14:25.24 | jdiaz | now |
| 14:25.32 | *** join/#maemo seraph1 (n=Ernesto@200-71-150-172.static.telcel.net.ve) |
| 14:25.35 | RST38h | The crowd cheered -- or screamed in terror -- as the giant 4.6-meter holographic specter assured them that technology is, in fact, the future. |
| 14:26.17 | *** join/#maemo krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132) |
| 14:26.28 | KotCzarny | future terror has a bright future? |
| 14:27.58 | *** join/#maemo zpol (n=gentoo-d@unaffiliated/lopz) |
| 14:28.37 | jdiaz | GA done. /etc/passwd and /etc/sudoers fixed |
| 14:28.41 | GeneralAntilles | Woo |
| 14:28.47 | jdiaz | :D |
| 14:28.51 | GeneralAntilles | Only took 2 hours. :D |
| 14:29.07 | jdiaz | naah, you are also counting 1:30h for launch |
| 14:29.34 | jdiaz | one minor problem remains, now after each reboot, the tablet keeps asking me the date and time |
| 14:29.38 | KotCzarny | now you are prepared for some serious breakages |
| 14:29.44 | jdiaz | probably something in linuxrc |
| 14:29.54 | qwerty12 | is surprised 31 people actually downloaded upstart |
| 14:30.09 | pupnik_ | testing the camera, GeneralAntilles |
| 14:30.14 | GeneralAntilles | Cool |
| 14:30.34 | qwerty12 | jdiaz, Not in linuxrc. Linuxrc is for the initfs. After linuxrc mounts rootfs on /, control is gone. |
| 14:30.35 | jdiaz | can I freely edit /mnt/initrc scripts? |
| 14:30.40 | qwerty12 | jdiaz, no |
| 14:30.50 | RST38h | wonders why nobody has used camera as a cheapo replacement fo accelerometer yet |
| 14:30.52 | KotCzarny | why no? |
| 14:31.04 | pupnik_ | great idea RST38h |
| 14:31.09 | qwerty12 | Not straight from /mnt/initfs iirc |
| 14:31.12 | jdiaz | hmmm... then why the tablet ask me the date, if all what was modified was initrc? |
| 14:31.13 | KotCzarny | rst: because camera is crappy? |
| 14:31.21 | RST38h | Kot: does not matter |
| 14:31.25 | qwerty12 | Unless you are doing it through bootmenu :/ |
| 14:31.30 | qwerty12 | jdiaz, what did you change? |
| 14:31.31 | RST38h | It will do for computing visual flow |
| 14:31.38 | RST38h | and theless pixels - the better |
| 14:31.40 | KotCzarny | rst: well, if you want to compute noise flow |
| 14:31.41 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 14:32.03 | RST38h | it's not that bad, although you MAY need to wear a striped tshirt to play =) |
| 14:32.12 | KotCzarny | not to mention i only managed mplayer/mencoder to work with it |
| 14:32.35 | RST38h | there should be interface that lets you download the current image |
| 14:32.36 | KotCzarny | none other v4l[12] app wanted to grab |
| 14:32.48 | jdiaz | I installed fanoush initrc |
| 14:32.50 | KotCzarny | ie, they can set mode, params |
| 14:33.01 | RST38h | you do not need a v4l app, just direct access to the image and some highly optimized math |
| 14:33.02 | KotCzarny | but actual read from fd fails with 'invalid argument' |
| 14:33.20 | RST38h | lemme check |
| 14:33.23 | KotCzarny | rst: how do i grab data from webcam then? |
| 14:33.32 | jdiaz | no, wait... fanoush initrc has nothing to do here... |
| 14:33.34 | RST38h | checking |
| 14:33.39 | qwerty12 | jdiaz, That's it? i've been using bootmenu fine. I even added it in manually off a computer for the diablo initfs which it doesn't support officially yet. |
| 14:33.44 | KotCzarny | working example would be nice |
| 14:33.44 | qwerty12 | I just saw new msg. |
| 14:33.45 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 14:34.03 | jdiaz | GeneralAntilles used fanoush initrc in order to create an initrc jffs2 image |
| 14:34.08 | jdiaz | he gave the image to me |
| 14:34.15 | jdiaz | I flashed it using nokia flasher |
| 14:34.21 | GeneralAntilles | initfs |
| 14:34.26 | jdiaz | that is |
| 14:34.27 | jdiaz | initfs |
| 14:34.36 | jdiaz | now, when I boot, I have a boot menu |
| 14:34.42 | qwerty12 | You can make an fanoush initfs image off the device. |
| 14:34.43 | RST38h | Kot: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/how_to_use_camera_api.html |
| 14:34.56 | GeneralAntilles | But not without root access, qwerty12. ;) |
| 14:34.57 | RST38h | Using GStreamer for it is atrocious though |
| 14:34.58 | KotCzarny | checking |
| 14:35.01 | jdiaz | yes, but I was unable because I'd lost root access |
| 14:35.11 | Khertan | someone have try mCalendar ? |
| 14:35.18 | qwerty12 | GeneralAntilles, Ahh, I see. My bad. |
| 14:35.31 | qwerty12 | KotCzarny, Applying your colour mod now :) |
| 14:35.33 | RST38h | Kot: you do nt need the jpeg stuff |
| 14:35.37 | qwerty12 | With fb_update mode. |
| 14:35.49 | RST38h | Kot: And if you really want to know how to compute motion flow, let me know |
| 14:35.53 | KotCzarny | rst: you call using gstreamer direct access? |
| 14:35.53 | jdiaz | now, when I boot from internal flash, all looks as ever, but a dialog appears asking me the date |
| 14:36.10 | RST38h | Kot: I call it available access. |
| 14:36.19 | jdiaz | hm |
| 14:36.21 | RST38h | Sometimes, you have to do with whatever [shit] you are given |
| 14:36.21 | *** join/#maemo Kt_ (n=Kirsat@96.243.196.167) |
| 14:36.25 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 14:36.30 | trickie_ | jdiaz: maybe you need to set the hardware clock |
| 14:36.32 | *** join/#maemo pcfe (n=pcfe@a88-112-5-135.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 14:36.34 | KotCzarny | i would prefer mencoder then |
| 14:36.42 | jdiaz | perhaps some datetime skew between the files GA provided me, and my own clock |
| 14:36.45 | jdiaz | ? |
| 14:37.05 | KotCzarny | jdiaz: flash your original initfs now ? |
| 14:37.06 | RST38h | Kot: I am currently checking if more direct approach is possible |
| 14:37.17 | KotCzarny | rst: it certainly is |
| 14:37.24 | KotCzarny | rst: mencoder just grabs /dev/video0 |
| 14:37.26 | jdiaz | how can I obtain my original initfs now? |
| 14:37.41 | KotCzarny | jdiaz: you made a backup, didn't you? |
| 14:37.42 | RST38h | Kot: http://www.thedirks.org/v4l2/v4l2cap.htm |
| 14:37.46 | *** join/#maemo summatusmentis (n=summatus@c-24-118-78-158.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 14:37.52 | jdiaz | no, I was unable. I'd lost root access |
| 14:37.59 | RST38h | You will need to do a few ioctl()s before being able to read |
| 14:38.10 | jdiaz | that was the only way to regain root access, indeed |
| 14:38.21 | RST38h | QUERYCAP is probably a must on Maemo - that is why everybody but mencoder fails reading it |
| 14:38.26 | KotCzarny | rst, i know, and as i said, i have tried normal v4l[12] apps |
| 14:38.40 | qwerty12 | jdiaz, You can extract it using flasher. |
| 14:38.56 | GeneralAntilles | jdiaz, just grab the FIASCO image from http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N810.php |
| 14:38.57 | qwerty12 | I've got an Chinook original initfs on my desktop if you want it? |
| 14:38.58 | KotCzarny | qwerty: to olate |
| 14:39.15 | qwerty12 | KotCzarny, Why? |
| 14:39.23 | GeneralAntilles | then: ./flasher-3.0-static -F <FIASCO bin> --flash-only=initfs -R |
| 14:39.41 | KotCzarny | qwerty: too late for making a backup from an already overwritten one :) |
| 14:40.00 | jdiaz | well, in fact I do prefer this initfs, because of the usbnetwork rescue mode |
| 14:40.08 | qwerty12 | KotCzarny, I'm not saying to make a backup :/ |
| 14:40.25 | jdiaz | only that dialog about the date/time annoys me a bit |
| 14:40.26 | *** join/#maemo matt_c_ (n=mcroydon@gozur.sunflowerbroadband.com) |
| 14:40.26 | KotCzarny | qwerty: it's late here, sorry if i say anything stupid :) |
| 14:40.34 | GeneralAntilles | jdiaz, alternatively you can download fanoush's initfs flasher onto the device and setup the bootmenu.conf how you want it. |
| 14:40.40 | qwerty12 | KotCzarny, No worries :) |
| 14:40.44 | jdiaz | anyway, the suggested date time is always correct. All what I need to do is to hit the "OK" |
| 14:41.12 | qwerty12 | jdiaz, Edit it out of the init script :/. osso-af-init handles it somewhere. |
| 14:41.13 | GeneralAntilles | jdiaz, yeah, I don't have a clue as to why that's popping up. |
| 14:41.37 | qwerty12 | jdiaz, here's another idea. set the hardware clock using retutime |
| 14:42.32 | qwerty12 | /mnt/initfs/usr/bin/retutime --get-time-from-system |
| 14:42.37 | qwerty12 | or somehting like that :p |
| 14:42.45 | *** join/#maemo matt_c_ (n=mcroydon@gozur.sunflowerbroadband.com) |
| 14:43.26 | trickie_ | /mnt/initfs/usr/bin/retutime --rtc-from-system |
| 14:43.34 | qwerty12 | That's it :) |
| 14:43.57 | *** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@gozur.sunflowerbroadband.com) |
| 14:44.56 | jdiaz | ok, the command was run |
| 14:45.03 | jdiaz | no output |
| 14:45.05 | jdiaz | I'll reboot |
| 14:46.06 | jdiaz | worked! |
| 14:46.11 | qwerty12 | Cool :) |
| 14:46.27 | GeneralAntilles | Actually, now that I think about it, maybe N800/N810 thing? |
| 14:46.35 | jdiaz | n810 |
| 14:46.45 | *** join/#maemo dforsyth (n=dforsyth@pool-71-191-206-107.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 14:46.45 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah, it was generated on an N800. |
| 14:47.02 | qwerty12 | Doesn't matter. linuxrc checks to see which RX it is running off. |
| 14:48.04 | KotCzarny | rst: yeah, that may be the reason, ie. read() vs mmap() |
| 14:48.10 | *** join/#maemo behdad (n=behdad@209.167.232.100) |
| 14:48.14 | KotCzarny | mplayer uses mmap |
| 14:48.30 | *** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@gozur.sunflowerbroadband.com) |
| 14:49.24 | RST38h | My guess is read() will work as well |
| 14:49.34 | RST38h | when you send right ioctls up front |
| 14:49.43 | *** join/#maemo dforsyth (n=dforsyth@pool-71-191-206-107.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 14:49.54 | jdiaz | is documenting the whole odisea |
| 14:50.12 | KotCzarny | rst: which one? |
| 14:50.17 | RST38h | Dunno |
| 14:50.28 | *** join/#maemo dforsyth (n=dforsyth@pool-71-191-206-107.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 14:50.31 | RST38h | I am looking at this thing for the first time |
| 14:51.04 | RST38h | Would try with gstreamer first as the method of obtaining video is not important for a prototype |
| 14:51.49 | *** join/#maemo sparr_ (n=sparr@pdpc/supporter/active/sparr) |
| 14:52.00 | sparr_ | whats the best route if i forget the startup passcode for my 770? |
| 14:52.11 | qwerty12 | burn it |
| 14:52.20 | *** join/#maemo alex-weej_ (n=alex@cpc1-acto9-0-0-cust931.brnt.cable.ntl.com) |
| 14:52.27 | KotCzarny | hit it with a hammer |
| 14:52.32 | qwerty12 | I don't know if powerlaunch with powertool runs on 770 |
| 14:52.45 | KotCzarny | what's the startup passcode? |
| 14:53.14 | qwerty12 | sparr_, Do you have fanoush bootmenu installed? Are you trying to get the code for fun or has your 770 locked you out? |
| 14:55.26 | sparr_ | no. locked out. |
| 14:55.45 | beford | now that somebody is talking about the lock code, what's the default code? |
| 14:55.46 | sparr_ | and its not mine, its a friend of a friends |
| 14:55.59 | KotCzarny | 12345 ? |
| 14:56.01 | johnx | beford, 12345 I think |
| 14:56.08 | beford | tries |
| 14:56.21 | KotCzarny | can be found in config partition |
| 14:56.35 | RST38h | All right, one more patch and I am going home |
| 14:56.58 | K-Fox | what is port of rdesktop? |
| 14:56.58 | qwerty12 | I've never figured out how to retrieve it from config. I ran cat on the config partition and never saw the number :/ |
| 14:57.13 | K-Fox | port number |
| 14:57.22 | qwerty12 | check www.portforward.com |
| 14:57.36 | beford | that worked, thanks |
| 14:58.13 | KotCzarny | rst: to your beloved n8x0 ? |
| 14:58.24 | RST38h | somthing like that |
| 14:58.45 | RST38h | so sodomize it with Canola |
| 14:58.51 | *** join/#maemo Zic (n=Zic@ubuntu/member/zic) |
| 14:59.11 | *** join/#maemo doc|home (n=doc@gentoo/contributor/doc-007) |
| 14:59.11 | KotCzarny | btw. max for camera is 16fps at 352x288 |
| 14:59.12 | qwerty12 | I plug USB cables into the N800 but I draw the line at sodomizing it... |
| 14:59.27 | KotCzarny | *4 or /4 depending on res |
| 14:59.37 | RST38h | Kot: what is the min? |
| 14:59.41 | RST38h | Only need the min |
| 14:59.47 | *** join/#maemo eichi (n=eichi@ip-80-226-0-1.vodafone-net.de) |
| 14:59.53 | KotCzarny | 176x144 worked |
| 14:59.58 | KotCzarny | haven't tried smaller |
| 14:59.59 | RST38h | enough |
| 15:00.15 | qwerty12 | 176x144 is max resolution of video on my phone :/ |
| 15:00.41 | RST38h | qwerty<-- owns a pre-S60e3 phone |
| 15:00.42 | KotCzarny | i should get me some sleep |
| 15:00.53 | KotCzarny | owns s60v1 phone |
| 15:01.01 | RST38h | also had one |
| 15:01.05 | qwerty12 | smashed up S60v1 |
| 15:01.05 | KotCzarny | n-gage |
| 15:01.11 | RST38h | Actually, two, 7650 and 3650 |
| 15:01.35 | qwerty12 | I have W810 - ENEA OSE, P1i - Symbian 9.1 UIQ3 and N80 - Symbian 9.1 S60v3 |
| 15:01.43 | RST38h | 7650 was a real brick, pretty much like N95 now |
| 15:01.45 | qwerty12 | I used to have N-Gage but I smashed it up. |
| 15:01.55 | RST38h | N80 is cool |
| 15:01.59 | qwerty12 | My friend has 7650, started taking the piss out of him. |
| 15:02.02 | qwerty12 | It's a brick :p |
| 15:02.18 | qwerty12 | I just carry the W810 and P1i. (with n800 ofc) |
| 15:02.35 | RST38h | two at the same time? |
| 15:02.38 | RST38h | AND n800? |
| 15:02.43 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 15:02.48 | qwerty12 | Yeah, my school blazer has pockets :p |
| 15:02.50 | KotCzarny | and probably a bunch of other stuff |
| 15:03.15 | sparr_ | once pandora comes out (http://openpandora.org/) ill be able to ditch all my other handhelds... will be sad to see my gp2x and n770 go, but my pockets will thank me |
| 15:03.32 | beford | I have a w810 too and got me the n810 this week :P |
| 15:03.36 | KotCzarny | what's the price estimate on pandora? |
| 15:03.52 | GeneralAntilles | Soooo ugly. :shudder: |
| 15:04.00 | pupnik | Ok i finally got basically decent recording from the N810 screen http://www.megaupload.com/?d=HJHXMKQY (duke nukem) |
| 15:04.04 | RST38h | sparr: don't hold your breath though |
| 15:04.26 | sparr_ | RST38h: why? |
| 15:04.46 | sparr_ | KotCzarny: $500 if the dollar keeps going the way it is... was less when i first heard about it |
| 15:05.05 | qwerty12 | £250 is too expensive. |
| 15:05.06 | sparr_ | about $350 today |
| 15:05.10 | qwerty12 | I bought my PSP for less. |
| 15:05.19 | RST38h | sparr: Small company, ugly prototype |
| 15:05.22 | sparr_ | that's £199 |
| 15:05.32 | *** join/#maemo mysc (i=damancha@DOMINIA.MIT.EDU) |
| 15:05.38 | RST38h | either burns through funds before it reaches product quality OR shortly thereafter |
| 15:05.40 | sparr_ | ugly prototype? the prototype doesnt even have a case yet, of course its ugly |
| 15:05.41 | KotCzarny | hmm |
| 15:05.50 | KotCzarny | 350$ for omap3 ? |
| 15:05.55 | KotCzarny | and the open one ? |
| 15:05.58 | RST38h | has seen it in a case - the ugly boxy one, with qwerty keyboard |
| 15:05.59 | mysc | KotC, you were right, the n810 is not worth the extra $$ over the n800 |
| 15:06.13 | sparr_ | or are you talking about the case in the photo? that's not even a prototype yet |
| 15:06.22 | RST38h | see? |
| 15:06.30 | *** join/#maemo K-Fox2 (n=wow@220.119.226.210) |
| 15:06.37 | qwerty12 | If it's better than N900, I'll go for the Pandora. I bet N900 will still be closed. Usually, I wouldn't give a shit but I've seen what happens with N800 with closed source stuff. |
| 15:06.51 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 15:06.56 | RST38h | Anyways. I would rather wait 6 more months for Nokia to switch to OMAP3 |
| 15:07.01 | KotCzarny | unless n900 come with all libs |
| 15:07.11 | mysc | n900 is already being talked about? |
| 15:07.13 | KotCzarny | and everything going at high performance |
| 15:07.25 | sparr_ | im a big gamer, i cant buy another handheld without gaming controls. playing even simple stuff on nokia's handhelds is annoying |
| 15:07.26 | *** join/#maemo geaaru (n=geaaru@host21-218-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 15:07.34 | pupnik | pandora is a fairly heroic effort by a dedicated tiny team with very little money |
| 15:07.36 | GeneralAntilles | Since at least last year, mysc. |
| 15:07.42 | RST38h | sparr: buy a nokia phone |
| 15:07.49 | K-Fox2 | when n900 is out? |
| 15:07.51 | mysc | GA, i thought it was ppl thinking the wimax was the 900 :) |
| 15:07.52 | KotCzarny | rst: or psp? |
| 15:07.53 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 15:07.59 | RST38h | pupnik: which is a delicate way to say "doomed to failure" :) |
| 15:08.00 | GeneralAntilles | No, mysc. |
| 15:08.08 | RST38h | Kot: PSP is way too closed |
| 15:08.10 | johnx | K-Fox2, everytime you ask it gets delayed by a year |
| 15:08.15 | qwerty12 | PSP pwns for games. I'd use mine more if the joystick wasn't broken. |
| 15:08.22 | KotCzarny | rst: but has commercial, dedicated games |
| 15:08.23 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 15:08.25 | GeneralAntilles | It has always been clear that the WiMAX tablet was just going to be an existing tablet with WiMAX |
| 15:08.28 | mysc | have any of you played with installing ubuntu on the n8x0? |
| 15:08.39 | pupnik | RST38h: financially it is quite risky, yes. |
| 15:08.41 | johnx | mysc, no. just debian. |
| 15:08.43 | GeneralAntilles | Except, maybe, to some idiots who made a stupid article about Nokia's "iPhone Killer" |
| 15:08.44 | RST38h | Kot: At $50+ a pop, they will have to find somebody else to buy it |
| 15:09.00 | qwerty12 | m33 |
| 15:09.05 | qwerty12 | walks away... |
| 15:09.12 | mysc | johnx, heard of the mojo group? |
| 15:09.14 | RST38h | Kot: Albeit in Moscow you can easily buy a hacked PSP |
| 15:09.22 | KotCzarny | rst: any games you can get for n8x0 ? |
| 15:09.22 | johnx | mysc, yeah. |
| 15:09.32 | sparr_ | RST38h: i really don't want all the hoopla in a phone |
| 15:09.45 | RST38h | Kot: yea, I have got some |
| 15:10.07 | RST38h | does not play fancy 3d stuff anyway so psp isn't very important for him |
| 15:10.13 | sparr_ | KotCzarny: "commercial dedicated games" are overrated. ill take my gp2x with 20000 snes/nes/sms/genesis/neogeo games on it over a nds with a few dozen "commercial dedicated games" |
| 15:10.17 | RST38h | Less important than ability to run gcc |
| 15:10.28 | hrw | mysc: the problem with non-maemo systems is that they have to rely on maemo anyway |
| 15:10.29 | KotCzarny | gp2x: 20000 games are stolen |
| 15:10.31 | KotCzarny | :> |
| 15:10.35 | mysc | johnx, do you have an 800 or 810? |
| 15:10.40 | johnx | n800 |
| 15:10.51 | mysc | hrw, yes and no...nokia is incorporating qt in addition to hildon. |
| 15:10.51 | sparr_ | let's not have a discussion about abadonware. to each their own. |
| 15:11.17 | KotCzarny | there is no such thing as abandonware (law wise) |
| 15:11.24 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 15:11.35 | mysc | johnx, would you consider the n810 or paying double for bad gps is not worth it :) |
| 15:11.37 | hrw | mysc: show me non-maemo distro for n8x0 which will have working wifi, bt, sound, battery and will not use components from maemo |
| 15:11.40 | RST38h | KILL, my little lawyers, KILL! |
| 15:11.47 | qwerty12 | is dreaming but I would like to try rockbox on my N800. Need something that feels like a proper mp3 player (except canola) |
| 15:12.00 | johnx | mysc, it depends on how much you want a built in keyboard and a sunlight viewable screen |
| 15:12.15 | pupnik | just did some xterm in full sunlight |
| 15:12.24 | pupnik | with backlight all the way down - amazingly good |
| 15:12.27 | hrw | mysc: I bought n810 because it has hw keyboard. |
| 15:12.40 | RST38h | hrw: a mediocre keyboard |
| 15:12.44 | KotCzarny | yeah, the screen i could fall for |
| 15:12.47 | mysc | the kb is nice, but to be honest, i rather plug in a usb kb or a bt kb |
| 15:12.47 | hrw | RST38h: but keyboard |
| 15:12.54 | RST38h | E70 phone has better keyboard then N810 |
| 15:13.14 | hrw | RST38h: but is not armv6 linux powered device? |
| 15:13.14 | qwerty12 | http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/images/e70_tot8.jpg |
| 15:13.20 | sparr_ | KotCzarny: not entirely true... some copyrights are truly abandoned, the entities that held them having ceased to exist without transferring them. but, that point aside, if a company is not willing to sell me their software, then i have no problem "stealing" it |
| 15:13.23 | *** join/#maemo andre___ (n=user@conference/ubuntu-developer-summit/x-d80b6324e783f1a1) |
| 15:13.34 | mysc | if you're gonna do serious typing the hw kb on 810 is not good. if you're not then the on screen is enough |
| 15:13.36 | RST38h | hrw: it is symbian |
| 15:13.37 | KotCzarny | yeah, e70 |
| 15:13.41 | KotCzarny | but 5510 was first |
| 15:13.42 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 15:14.13 | johnx | mysc, if you want to use IM or IRC the onscreen keyboard is annoying |
| 15:14.14 | RST38h | Kot: true, but no programmable platform |
| 15:14.27 | KotCzarny | rst: not true |
| 15:14.38 | qwerty12 | Java isn't really great on S40 phones. |
| 15:14.51 | patoh | and s40 phones love to crash |
| 15:14.53 | GeneralAntilles | johnx, it's not that bad. :P |
| 15:14.54 | KotCzarny | rst: http://nokix.pasjagsm.pl/?type=intro&lang=en |
| 15:15.10 | glass | on midp2(and midp1) textboxes etc gui building is pretty primitive |
| 15:15.11 | mysc | johnx, it doesn't justify the $200+ though |
| 15:15.16 | KotCzarny | rexx on 5510 |
| 15:15.17 | glass | hard to make good looking/feeling stuff |
| 15:15.21 | KotCzarny | (and few others ;) |
| 15:15.34 | johnx | GeneralAntilles, the bad part isn't typing, it's that it takes over the whole screen |
| 15:15.39 | RST38h | urgh |
| 15:15.41 | *** join/#maemo zpol (n=gentoo-d@unaffiliated/lopz) |
| 15:15.41 | RST38h | Rexx. |
| 15:15.42 | hrw | mysc: to tell the truth none of nokia tablets is fine device |
| 15:15.44 | RST38h | Java. |
| 15:15.51 | qwerty12 | java sucks. |
| 15:15.57 | johnx | mysc, right. so the N800 would be better for you then |
| 15:15.59 | RST38h | sucks moose balls |
| 15:16.08 | hrw | each of them has ugly parts but also each has some good parts (except 770 which has only one) |
| 15:16.20 | mysc | johnx, yeah, i mean ima gonna irc from it, i'll just use one of those nice igo bt kb's |
| 15:16.24 | qwerty12 | lol, "Warning Maybe NSFW => Naked RX-48" |
| 15:16.40 | KotCzarny | mysc: be aware that bt kb is laggy |
| 15:16.46 | sparr_ | RST38h: is this the case you think is ugly? http://openpandora.org/bigone.jpg |
| 15:16.47 | KotCzarny | on my n800 at least |
| 15:16.49 | johnx | mysc, that will work fine as long as you're sitting somewhere |
| 15:17.01 | GeneralAntilles | Just gotta type faster, johnx. :P |
| 15:17.01 | mysc | yeah, laggy and also can fall prey to timing attacks |
| 15:17.07 | GeneralAntilles | Spend as little time there as possible. ;) |
| 15:17.08 | hrw | bye |
| 15:17.21 | KotCzarny | hmm |
| 15:17.36 | KotCzarny | that pandora box will be a hand killer |
| 15:17.49 | KotCzarny | with those sharp corners sticking into palms |
| 15:17.55 | mysc | are there any other cheap linux-on-pda alternatives? |
| 15:18.08 | KotCzarny | mysc: zaurus? |
| 15:18.09 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 15:18.15 | mysc | is that sharp? |
| 15:18.17 | qwerty12 | Is there any other port of doom rather than INdT's one? |
| 15:18.19 | sparr_ | KotCzarny: you never spent 8 hours with a NES controller in your hand did you? |
| 15:18.19 | KotCzarny | probably |
| 15:18.26 | KotCzarny | sparr: nope |
| 15:18.30 | johnx | yeah. it's also discontinued |
| 15:18.39 | sparr_ | those "sharp" corners don't really matter |
| 15:18.40 | mysc | ah, smallish screen, right? |
| 15:18.47 | KotCzarny | sparr: not true |
| 15:19.03 | johnx | sparr_, the render has *really* sharp looking corners |
| 15:19.14 | sparr_ | johnx: the one i just linked? |
| 15:19.20 | johnx | sp3000, yes. I doubt they'll do that for the real product of course |
| 15:19.21 | mysc | i shoulda gotten an n800 when the prices hit bottom some weeks ago...instead got an 810 and now the 800s have gone back up in price |
| 15:20.09 | johnx | the zaurus screen isn't that small...but it is smaller than the n800/n810 |
| 15:20.47 | johnx | sparr, look at the edges on the left and right side of the keyboard where they curve up to a knife edge |
| 15:20.59 | KotCzarny | http://www.dcemu.co.uk/dcemupandora.jpg |
| 15:21.10 | sparr | johnx: ahh |
| 15:21.28 | qwerty12 | eww. looks ugly :/. Seeing dcemu reminds me of my dreamcast :( |
| 15:21.34 | sparr | that render is old |
| 15:21.40 | sparr | KotCzarny: ^^ |
| 15:21.42 | johnx | misses his dreamcast :/ |
| 15:21.47 | sparr | johnx: they should probably curve them more, youre right. |
| 15:21.53 | KotCzarny | but gives some impression about possibilities |
| 15:22.09 | johnx | sparr, I'm sure they will for the actual production |
| 15:22.12 | KotCzarny | newer render has sharper edges |
| 15:22.28 | sparr | newer render has better keyboard |
| 15:22.31 | KotCzarny | some rubber could fix it though |
| 15:22.48 | sparr | the neat thing about sharp corners on a prototype... they can be fixed without fancy tools :) |
| 15:23.10 | mysc | can any of you do a screenshot of an xterm on an n800 with the onscreen kb on? (both the full finger and the small one made for the stylus)? |
| 15:23.12 | johnx | yeah, just a file and 20 minutes :) |
| 15:23.32 | KotCzarny | johnx: or a can of silicone |
| 15:23.33 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 15:23.40 | johnx | mysc, well the fullscreen keyboard looks the same in all apps |
| 15:23.44 | GeneralAntilles | ^ |
| 15:23.51 | GeneralAntilles | Exactly the same as the screenshot I gave you before. :P |
| 15:23.57 | mysc | johnx, about 50% of the screen? |
| 15:24.01 | sparr | mysc: on my 770 i preferred to use the terminal with the transparent keyboard |
| 15:24.13 | qwerty12 | mysc, full finger looks same everywhere |
| 15:24.15 | johnx | mysc, the fullscreen keyboard takes *the whole screen* |
| 15:24.16 | KotCzarny | 770 had a transparent osk? |
| 15:24.26 | qwerty12 | There was xterm build |
| 15:24.35 | KotCzarny | hmm hmm |
| 15:24.37 | mysc | whole screen? eek |
| 15:24.39 | johnx | thus "full" "screen" "keyboard" |
| 15:24.40 | *** join/#maemo eichi_ (n=eichi@ip-80-226-0-1.vodafone-net.de) |
| 15:24.45 | GeneralAntilles | mysc, http://www.sense-datum.org/tim/images/xterm.jpg |
| 15:24.51 | mysc | is the small kb the same as the 810's about 40-45% of screen? |
| 15:24.51 | GeneralAntilles | mysc, you saw my screenshot. . . . |
| 15:25.02 | qwerty12 | OWW. Bad colour scheme. |
| 15:25.07 | GeneralAntilles | http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/maemofingerkeyboard.jpg |
| 15:25.23 | sparr | http://dastych.sh.cvut.cz/~jtra/download/maemo/xterm/xterm-screenshot-1.png |
| 15:25.26 | KotCzarny | hates black-on-white |
| 15:25.32 | mysc | GA, ah nice. that's the small kb, like the 810s. yours GA was bigger and transparent |
| 15:25.42 | qwerty12 | sparr, nice |
| 15:25.42 | GeneralAntilles | Not transparent. |
| 15:25.45 | sparr | that's translucent, it has a mode where the keys are invisible, just letters |
| 15:26.23 | mysc | do you have to patch xterm for this functionality? |
| 15:26.25 | sparr | i liked that one because the keyboard could be hidden/unhidden/moved without affecting the size/shape of the terminal window |
| 15:26.37 | KotCzarny | sparr: try xvkbd |
| 15:26.38 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 15:26.49 | qwerty12 | The source is available. Anyone want to integrate it into the current xterm? |
| 15:26.54 | KotCzarny | i have to add enter for hildonized apps though :/ |
| 15:28.08 | mysc | do you have a garage for this Kot? |
| 15:28.19 | KotCzarny | mysc: yes, on my laptop |
| 15:28.20 | KotCzarny | hehe |
| 15:28.21 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 15:28.22 | mysc | hah |
| 15:28.53 | mysc | so what's the best translucent virt kb that'll work on the latest set of apps (os 08) ? |
| 15:28.56 | KotCzarny | mysc: try googling for n800 xvkbd |
| 15:29.34 | *** join/#maemo K-Fox3 (n=wow@220.119.226.64) |
| 15:30.13 | mysc | oh one pet peeve: if i input using handwriting in xterm i can't do words... so "hello" quickly yields "hhehelhellhello" |
| 15:32.03 | mysc | sparr, is the one you showed out for os2008? |
| 15:32.35 | sparr | i dont think so |
| 15:32.53 | *** join/#maemo unixSnob (n=jgombos@dialup-4.225.103.127.Dial1.Cincinnati1.Level3.net) |
| 15:32.59 | qwerty12 | Source is there though. Anyone willing to add it into current xterm? I may try and fail sometime. |
| 15:33.19 | *** join/#maemo red-zack (n=mk@p5085F0F8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:34.15 | KotCzarny | qwerty: link? |
| 15:34.24 | johnx | Khertan, installing mcalendar right now :) |
| 15:34.38 | *** join/#maemo solmumaha (n=solmis@mikkeli.wsoy.fi) |
| 15:34.48 | qwerty12 | http://dastych.sh.cvut.cz/~jtra/download/maemo/xterm/ |
| 15:35.04 | *** join/#maemo simon_ (n=simon@w208.wist.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 15:35.29 | *** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@gozur.sunflowerbroadband.com) |
| 15:35.47 | qwerty12 | Keyboard is just python program, my guess xterm runs it on opening. |
| 15:36.13 | KotCzarny | i'm interested in transluency |
| 15:36.27 | mysc | can you go back to standard kb after installing that qwerty? |
| 15:37.03 | qwerty12 | mysc, You should be able to, just install libvte and osso-xterm from the svn. |
| 15:37.18 | Khertan | argggg g!!! g!gg! !g g!g still looking why my icon isn't show in the taskbar ! |
| 15:37.39 | mysc | i meant on the fly flipping between kb styles |
| 15:38.00 | qwerty12 | No idea, that isn't even for OS2008 anyway. |
| 15:38.07 | qwerty12 | I've never had a 770 to try it on. |
| 15:38.09 | patoh | Away |
| 15:38.12 | patoh | oops |
| 15:38.14 | Khertan | someone know if their is somewhere a thing where i can get error on a .desktop at launch or other things like .services |
| 15:38.24 | Khertan | s/error/error log |
| 15:38.50 | qwerty12 | Maybe launch the program with dbus-send, but not sure on how to do it. |
| 15:38.58 | johnx | Khertan, I guess I'm missing sqlite for python. Any idea where to get it? |
| 15:39.00 | mysc | hrmmm, i guess you could become a pro with thumb typing on the stylus kb :) |
| 15:39.27 | GeneralAntilles | It's not bad, actually, mysc. |
| 15:39.29 | johnx | I guess my thumbs are too big :/ |
| 15:39.29 | mysc | just have to file away the sides of your thumbs with some sandpaper :> |
| 15:39.44 | GeneralAntilles | Use the tips of your thumbs |
| 15:39.53 | GeneralAntilles | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:39.56 | KotCzarny | johnx, stick something to your thumbs |
| 15:40.03 | GeneralAntilles | Pads don't work for that. ;) |
| 15:40.13 | KotCzarny | maybe thinble? |
| 15:40.17 | KotCzarny | thimble |
| 15:40.20 | mysc | hah |
| 15:40.36 | johnx | I'll stick to using the fullscreen keyboard... |
| 15:40.40 | mysc | the new market for thimbles, old women who sew and young geeks who irc on n800 :> |
| 15:40.49 | qwerty12 | never uses fullscreen keyboard |
| 15:40.58 | johnx | I'll just keep irc'ing on the zaurus :P |
| 15:41.06 | GeneralAntilles | Why, qwerty? |
| 15:41.12 | GeneralAntilles | The fullscreen keyboard is great. |
| 15:41.14 | Khertan | johnx > it s not in the python2.5-runtime ? |
| 15:41.21 | mysc | johnx, what zaurus do you have and what linux is on it? |
| 15:41.23 | KotCzarny | full laptop keyboard is great |
| 15:41.24 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 15:41.25 | Khertan | oups ... so it seems i should add some depandancy ... |
| 15:41.32 | qwerty12 | GeneralAntilles, Because I prefer to see the program and I'm too used to the small keyboard now. |
| 15:41.57 | johnx | mysc, C1000 w/ angstrom on SD and Debian on USB |
| 15:41.57 | johnx | Khertan, one sec |
| 15:42.04 | mysc | do they still sell the zaurus' ? |
| 15:42.13 | johnx | they don't make it |
| 15:42.22 | johnx | I think you can find leftover stock or a used model |
| 15:43.07 | Khertan | johnx : http://david.hautbois.free.fr/joomla/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=28&func=fileinfo&id=5 |
| 15:43.14 | mysc | johnx how does it compare to nokia |
| 15:43.26 | Khertan | mysc > no integrated wifi |
| 15:43.39 | Khertan | and using an card sucks battery power |
| 15:43.47 | Khertan | it s the main differences for me |
| 15:43.49 | johnx | mysc, nice keyboard, good open source linux support, but half the RAM, half the flash, slower CPU, less idle time |
| 15:44.07 | johnx | the formfactor is nice and solid |
| 15:44.18 | mysc | ah, i see. |
| 15:44.19 | johnx | the lack of built in wifi and bluetooth is kind of a PITA though |
| 15:44.35 | mysc | what do you need a usb->wifi adaptor? |
| 15:44.51 | johnx | compactflash wifi is the only reasonable way |
| 15:44.58 | johnx | usb wifi would need a powered hub |
| 15:45.08 | KotCzarny | and a lot of power |
| 15:45.09 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 15:45.22 | johnx | eh...not *a lot* |
| 15:45.22 | *** join/#maemo smancke (n=smancke@ip-62-143-122-209.hsi.ish.de) |
| 15:45.35 | johnx | just 2 nimh AAs would be fine I think |
| 15:45.41 | KotCzarny | i have yet to see a card with lower than 500mA spec |
| 15:46.01 | johnx | but they don't use that *all the time* |
| 15:46.11 | KotCzarny | probably |
| 15:46.24 | KotCzarny | but it won't be 100mA too |
| 15:46.28 | *** join/#maemo jnettlet (n=jnettlet@c-76-118-159-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 15:46.32 | johnx | well of course not |
| 15:47.52 | johnx | hmm...maybe 4 AAs would be better...anyways the point is, once you involve an external hub it's not really mobile any more |
| 15:48.28 | KotCzarny | johnx: backpack |
| 15:48.29 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 15:48.40 | mysc | so you all would not hesistate to recommend the 800? cause i am having trouble justifying a higher pricetag on the n810 |
| 15:49.01 | johnx | yeah, just toss a couple car batteries back there, run some low guage wire up over your back... |
| 15:49.09 | KotCzarny | johnx: yup |
| 15:49.10 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 15:49.18 | Khertan | johnx> pysqlite for maemo : http://tinyurl.com/5rms6w |
| 15:49.19 | KotCzarny | weeks of fun |
| 15:49.20 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 15:49.24 | johnx | Khertan, thanks |
| 15:49.52 | johnx | Khertan, you might want to add that as a dependency, then :) |
| 15:49.57 | Khertan | this is the one build by Tahitibob ... |
| 15:50.03 | Khertan | yes i ll do it ... |
| 15:50.34 | Khertan | first report :) |
| 15:50.34 | unixSnob | Any Australians or Belgians in here? |
| 15:50.48 | unixSnob | would like to know if Australia or Belgium have per diem for traveling contractors |
| 15:50.48 | johnx | mysc, what do you want it for? hacking around in linux? web surfing? PIM? |
| 15:50.52 | Khertan | what the link between Australians and Belgian ? |
| 15:51.22 | unixSnob | khertan - no link.. I may work in either of those countries soon |
| 15:51.51 | KotCzarny | they lie on the opposite ends of earth? |
| 15:51.52 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 15:51.59 | Khertan | mysc> zaurus is better for one thing : wifi packet sniffing ... |
| 15:52.06 | qwerty12 | That's a link? :/ |
| 15:52.12 | mysc | johnx, hacking around linux, irc, occasional webmail |
| 15:52.21 | unixSnob | yeah, I live right between them |
| 15:52.25 | mysc | Khertan, i don't want to sniff wifi or inject :P |
| 15:52.39 | johnx | mysc, an n800 will work well for you I think :) |
| 15:52.46 | johnx | Khertan, kismet runs fine on my n800... |
| 15:52.48 | Khertan | i hope as inject level 4 packet isn't possible |
| 15:52.55 | unixSnob | although there are some connections between Australia and the UK |
| 15:53.23 | qwerty12 | Well, I believe it is our Queen that is the Queen there? |
| 15:53.44 | Khertan | johnx > yes ... it can scan network ... but channel hopping kill the network, and injecting doesn't work very well |
| 15:54.05 | johnx | Khertan, it doesn't as long as wlancond isn't running I think |
| 15:54.08 | mysc | johnx, thanks. cheers |
| 15:54.32 | johnx | Khertan, It's not a hardware or driver problem I think |
| 15:55.47 | *** join/#maemo juergbi (n=juerg@80-219-17-53.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 15:56.46 | KotCzarny | http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/multimedia/2008/04/gallery_DandDStats |
| 15:56.46 | KotCzarny | o.o |
| 15:57.19 | qwerty12 | More like ( . )( . ) :p |
| 15:57.23 | Khertan | johnx> it s a driver problem wich doesn't accept it ... and we can make an other one without specs :) |
| 15:57.56 | Khertan | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:58.09 | Khertan | s/can/can't |
| 15:58.11 | johnx | Khertan, I can channel hop with kismet while collecting packets for >1 hour without problems |
| 15:58.24 | qwerty12 | Do we have uinput module on N800? |
| 15:58.39 | johnx | this is while booted into Debian...but it's the same driver |
| 15:58.49 | Khertan | hum? serious ? |
| 15:58.53 | johnx | Khertan, yeah |
| 15:59.06 | Khertan | oh ... interesting ... |
| 15:59.14 | Khertan | so it s not a driver problem ... |
| 15:59.19 | johnx | I don't think it is |
| 15:59.23 | johnx | maybe I was just lucky |
| 15:59.28 | johnx | I'd put my money on wlancond though |
| 15:59.34 | Khertan | me too now |
| 15:59.35 | johnx | it seems to tweak lots of wifi stuff |
| 15:59.57 | johnx | I'll try it again right now to make sure I'm not lying to you |
| 15:59.57 | Khertan | and injecting packet work ? |
| 16:00.04 | johnx | nope |
| 16:00.06 | johnx | of course not |
| 16:00.08 | Khertan | arg :( |
| 16:00.15 | johnx | that's just not avaiable in the drivers at all |
| 16:00.59 | qwerty12 | fook, CONFIG_INPUT_UINPUT isn't available in my kernel source too :/ |
| 16:01.30 | Khertan | Ook ? |
| 16:01.44 | qwerty12 | s/fook/fuck then :/ |
| 16:02.03 | qwerty12 | infobot, no i didn't but nice try. |
| 16:02.44 | Khertan | Ooook ..? |
| 16:03.54 | qwerty12 | didn't know that google translate does Suomi translation too :/ |
| 16:04.29 | KotCzarny | you wouldn't know if it does it right |
| 16:04.36 | KotCzarny | or if it just plays a joke on you |
| 16:04.37 | KotCzarny | :> |
| 16:04.42 | qwerty12 | Meh, it's the best I can rely on :p |
| 16:05.00 | Khertan | oOok ? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Librarian_%28Discworld%29) |
| 16:05.14 | qwerty12 | WTF http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Librarian_(Discworld).jpg |
| 16:05.32 | KotCzarny | qwerty: you have never read discworld novels? |
| 16:05.38 | KotCzarny | what a pity |
| 16:05.39 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 16:05.41 | qwerty12 | If my librarian looked like that, i'd throw the books on his face. |
| 16:05.45 | qwerty12 | Don't like them :/ |
| 16:05.55 | Khertan | The Librarian of Unseen University :) |
| 16:05.55 | KotCzarny | read colour of magic |
| 16:05.56 | KotCzarny | :> |
| 16:06.07 | Khertan | if u have this one near u let me know |
| 16:06.15 | KotCzarny | first ones are the best |
| 16:07.13 | *** join/#maemo z72ka_ntb (n=hermanj@r5af183.net.upc.cz) |
| 16:07.14 | Khertan | Men at Arms is a good one too |
| 16:07.23 | KotCzarny | nah |
| 16:07.39 | qwerty12 | I'll er, take your words for it |
| 16:07.41 | Khertan | SI |
| 16:08.04 | mysc | the n800 uses standard sdhc size right? |
| 16:08.12 | KotCzarny | yes |
| 16:08.21 | KotCzarny | sd and mmc would work too |
| 16:08.36 | mysc | but over 2gig its sdhc, right? |
| 16:08.46 | KotCzarny | not necessarily |
| 16:08.48 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 16:08.48 | Khertan | but i ve never see mmchc ... |
| 16:08.56 | Khertan | 4go can be sd ... |
| 16:09.00 | Khertan | and not sdhc |
| 16:09.01 | mysc | does it come with any already installed like the n810? |
| 16:09.11 | KotCzarny | ? |
| 16:09.17 | Khertan | yes a 64Mb if i remember well |
| 16:09.21 | qwerty12 | 128MB |
| 16:09.21 | Khertan | sd |
| 16:09.23 | Khertan | ;) |
| 16:09.28 | KotCzarny | mine had 128mb sd |
| 16:09.33 | qwerty12 | same here |
| 16:09.34 | KotCzarny | never used it |
| 16:09.42 | Khertan | so 64Mb should be my Nokia Phone |
| 16:09.43 | Khertan | ;) |
| 16:09.44 | KotCzarny | it's pins are virgin ;) |
| 16:10.46 | *** join/#maemo ac7ss (n=ac7ss@c-24-17-138-99.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 16:11.26 | Khertan | what s the link between this : Egyptian mythology, quantum physics, Greek philosophy (including Zeno's paradoxes), United Kingdom driving test[7] |
| 16:11.34 | Khertan | ? |
| 16:11.40 | Khertan | :) |
| 16:11.47 | qwerty12 | They all have letters in those words? |
| 16:12.16 | mysc | they're all subjects you should _not_ be thinking about whilst driving |
| 16:12.16 | *** join/#maemo pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 16:12.25 | Khertan | Pyramids (7th tome of the DiscWorld) |
| 16:12.54 | qwerty12 | When I apply for my provisional in the UK, I won't be thinking about DiscWorld ;) |
| 16:12.58 | *** join/#maemo captainigloo (n=silent@gar31-4-82-240-198-102.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:13.46 | johnx | that's what you say now...but then it'll just pop into your head |
| 16:14.06 | qwerty12 | Of course, I always have DiscWorld on my mind :/ |
| 16:14.20 | qwerty12 | My teacher in my last school tried getting me to read the colours one. |
| 16:15.07 | KotCzarny | as i said, the firstest is teh bestest ;) |
| 16:15.49 | Khertan | johnx > do u have installed pysqlite ? |
| 16:15.55 | *** join/#maemo rev (n=rev|x@71-214-159-68.dlth.qwest.net) |
| 16:16.09 | Khertan | if you make an import sqlite3 in python ... does modules exists ? |
| 16:16.15 | johnx | yeah...then I booted into debian to test kismet again :) |
| 16:16.31 | Khertan | (only relevant if u haven't install sqlite) |
| 16:16.36 | *** part/#maemo rev (n=rev|x@71-214-159-68.dlth.qwest.net) |
| 16:17.03 | Khertan | someone with an ipython shell can give me the result of : import sqlite3 |
| 16:17.11 | Khertan | print sqlite3.version |
| 16:17.17 | Khertan | on chinook ? |
| 16:17.38 | Khertan | (it seems that sqlite3 is in the python runtime) |
| 16:18.44 | Khertan | http://www.gronmayer.com/it/ don't work ? |
| 16:18.55 | Navi | gronmayer is broken |
| 16:19.03 | qwerty12 | Am I right in assuming I can safely delete the /usr/include folder off my tablet? |
| 16:19.07 | mysc | john, you can boot into vanilla debian on you n800? |
| 16:19.11 | *** join/#maemo lmoura (n=lmoura@200.184.118.132) |
| 16:19.44 | johnx | mysc, it's a little less than vanilla |
| 16:19.51 | johnx | there's a hint of almond |
| 16:20.06 | johnx | but yes |
| 16:20.16 | mysc | hah |
| 16:20.20 | qwerty12 | with chocolate. HOW COULD YOU FORGET THE CHOCOLATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 16:20.21 | qwerty12 | :p |
| 16:20.22 | mysc | any url? |
| 16:20.35 | johnx | http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=Debian |
| 16:20.43 | *** join/#maemo tortoise_ (n=tortoise@87-194-162-231.bethere.co.uk) |
| 16:20.46 | *** join/#maemo sm00th_trac3r (n=sm00th@91.195.111.236) |
| 16:21.05 | KotCzarny | vanilla chocolate? |
| 16:21.08 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 16:21.19 | mysc | sweet. any benefits to it? |
| 16:21.28 | mysc | aside from a broken openssl :) |
| 16:21.35 | KotCzarny | :> |
| 16:21.55 | johnx | uhm, your choice of 10,000 packages ready to install? |
| 16:22.24 | mysc | there are arm-compiled packages already sitting there? |
| 16:22.47 | KotCzarny | dependency hell fun? |
| 16:22.55 | *** join/#maemo zap (n=zap@28.169.249.ozerki.net) |
| 16:23.00 | *** join/#maemo unixSnob (n=jgombos@70-9-212-115.area4.spcsdns.net) |
| 16:23.04 | Navi | mysc, yeah |
| 16:23.12 | johnx | KotCzarny, hmm? |
| 16:23.12 | Navi | debian's autobuilder took care of that |
| 16:23.25 | mysc | sweet. |
| 16:23.38 | johnx | mysc, hit packages.debian.org and search for your favorites. Select "armel" distribution |
| 16:23.41 | Navi | They have packages like Warsow on there too |
| 16:23.44 | mysc | hey, can you plot the debian in a card and have a dual-boot kind of setup? |
| 16:23.52 | mysc | plot=plop |
| 16:23.58 | johnx | that's the only way to do it at present |
| 16:24.20 | Navi | it's much too big to not do it anyways |
| 16:24.34 | johnx | you just install fanoush's bootmenu and then untar a starter tarball onto an SD card |
| 16:24.36 | mysc | what about things like the virtual kb, etc? |
| 16:24.45 | johnx | there's a different one |
| 16:24.50 | johnx | matchbox-keyboard |
| 16:24.50 | Navi | matchbox-keyboard is preinstalled |
| 16:24.52 | johnx | it's not as nice |
| 16:25.31 | mysc | hrmmm, this is pretty neat. so you keep os2008 on your flash and you nuked debian onto a card? |
| 16:25.57 | johnx | yup |
| 16:26.06 | johnx | just reboot and select from the bootmenu |
| 16:26.24 | johnx | or you can keep debian on the card and chroot into it from os2008 if you want |
| 16:26.25 | KotCzarny | has os2008 on a flash and os2008 on a sd card |
| 16:26.29 | mysc | sweet. and then when ubuntu comes out you can nuke another card and hotswap os's |
| 16:26.35 | KotCzarny | johnx: kexec ?:) |
| 16:26.39 | Navi | >_> |
| 16:26.41 | mysc | or coldswap i guess... |
| 16:26.45 | johnx | KotCzarny, you could if you want |
| 16:26.53 | KotCzarny | johnx: why? |
| 16:26.56 | *** join/#maemo sergio_ (n=sergio@cm216016.red83-165.mundo-r.com) |
| 16:27.08 | qwerty12 | Does kexec work? |
| 16:27.10 | johnx | KotCzarny, you're asking me why you want to do something? |
| 16:27.17 | KotCzarny | sorry, it's late |
| 16:27.18 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 16:27.27 | johnx | mysc, I still don't see the point in ubuntu though... |
| 16:27.45 | mysc | hrmm, this is a different concept of chroot jails than i'm used to, can you expand? |
| 16:28.10 | johnx | well it's like a chroot jail except there's a whole system in there and you can run whatever you want |
| 16:28.32 | mysc | but with the os2008 overhead? |
| 16:28.43 | johnx | yeah |
| 16:28.51 | unixSnob | Why would chmod fail to work, yet not show any errors? |
| 16:29.11 | mysc | that sounds a lot less efficient than booting directly off the card |
| 16:29.13 | unixSnob | I ran chmod both as root and as a user, and it did not change the permissions |
| 16:29.19 | johnx | mysc, I don't really chroot into debian from os2008...but some people seem to love it for some reason |
| 16:29.34 | qwerty12 | unixSnob, Welcome to the feeling :(. My ~ is still messed up. |
| 16:29.38 | mysc | what size card do you recommend john? |
| 16:29.56 | GeneralAntilles | unixSnob, FAT? |
| 16:30.10 | mysc | would you get 4gb int and 4gb ext? |
| 16:30.20 | unixSnob | I think it is fat.. guess that would explain it |
| 16:30.32 | qwerty12 | has 8gb internal and 1gb external |
| 16:30.41 | unixSnob | hmm, on second thought, I'm uncertain |
| 16:30.48 | GeneralAntilles | mysc, 8gb is the sweet spot right now. |
| 16:30.51 | johnx | mysc, yeah, I'd probably choose two 4GB over one 8GB |
| 16:30.57 | unixSnob | My windows box read the SD card, but then I also have ext2fs installed on the windows box |
| 16:30.57 | KotCzarny | hmm |
| 16:31.16 | Khertan | so .... go ... see u later |
| 16:31.25 | *** join/#maemo Mousey (n=mprov@dsl093-144-195.sba1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 16:31.27 | KotCzarny | one big card is better future wise |
| 16:31.27 | mysc | can a debian install (with X and programming stuff) fir on 4gb these days? |
| 16:31.28 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 16:31.36 | Navi | mysc, yes :P |
| 16:31.44 | Navi | 4GB is a lot of space |
| 16:31.45 | *** join/#maemo eichi (n=eichi@ip-80-226-0-1.vodafone-net.de) |
| 16:31.59 | mysc | Navi, you have a to ask, these newbie linux distribs install like 6GB off thebat |
| 16:31.59 | KotCzarny | maemo-mapper 1.7gb, cloned os 0.5-1gb |
| 16:32.04 | mysc | :) |
| 16:32.18 | johnx | mysc, mine is still around 1GB |
| 16:32.22 | Navi | Pfft, fook dat sheet |
| 16:32.24 | KotCzarny | some mp3 0.1-500gb |
| 16:32.26 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 16:33.11 | mysc | john, with X and standard bells & whistles? |
| 16:33.48 | johnx | with a nice comfie xfce desktop and a browser |
| 16:34.15 | johnx | it's closer to 1.5GB now that I've been playing around though |
| 16:34.41 | mysc | firefox? |
| 16:34.51 | johnx | v2 had some issues with ARM |
| 16:35.01 | johnx | v3 has yet to be compiled by the debian guys for ARM |
| 16:35.05 | johnx | I think |
| 16:35.13 | mysc | so what browser do you use? |
| 16:35.19 | johnx | epiphany-webkit |
| 16:35.23 | unixSnob | how does one find out what filesystem has been mounted? |
| 16:35.29 | mysc | ok. did you upgrade your libssl? |
| 16:35.31 | johnx | on unix? |
| 16:35.33 | johnx | mount |
| 16:35.40 | johnx | mysc, of course O_o |
| 16:35.44 | mysc | yeah, mount |
| 16:35.50 | johnx | the one in the tarball might be old still |
| 16:35.53 | Navi | I've got 150MB left on my 1GB card |
| 16:36.03 | mysc | the 5/14/08 tarball? |
| 16:36.10 | johnx | yeah |
| 16:36.19 | mysc | but then you just upgrade off the bat, right? |
| 16:36.25 | johnx | yeah |
| 16:36.43 | mysc | ok, no problem, i'll just not generate any keys or ssh anywhere until i upgrade |
| 16:37.10 | johnx | yup...you can add a warning to the wiki if you feel like it too :) |
| 16:37.13 | mysc | now i have to learn debians package management...slackware monkey here :) |
| 16:37.18 | johnx | aaah |
| 16:37.32 | johnx | apt is nice and friendly, I promise |
| 16:37.39 | wnd | most of the time |
| 16:37.48 | mysc | yes, i've heard great things about apt. |
| 16:38.03 | unixSnob | thanks johnx and GeneralAntilles... I have vfat, which must be why I can't change permissions |
| 16:38.03 | johnx | actually making your own .debs is kind of a pain |
| 16:38.10 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 16:38.23 | mysc | it's always been wget; tar -xzvf; ./configure; make for me though |
| 16:38.30 | mysc | hope the learning curve isn't too steep |
| 16:38.44 | johnx | I prefer to let something else handle my dependencies |
| 16:38.44 | KotCzarny | in slackware it's a make install && makepkg |
| 16:38.44 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 16:38.55 | *** join/#maemo simboss (n=chatzill@host84-13-dynamic.27-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 16:39.13 | johnx | and building things from scratch on ARM would be a ridiculous waste of time if someone else has already done it for you |
| 16:39.35 | gpd | can anyone confirm that using BT to a phone with HSDPA and tethering the N800 is classified as 'using the phone as a modem' - therefore causing O2 to charge me 3 GBP per Mb rather than Free if on the phone directly? |
| 16:39.37 | Navi | bleh, I can't stand APT |
| 16:39.47 | simboss | ayone there for a stupid question on pymamemo + urllib2 ? :-) |
| 16:39.48 | Navi | aptitude makes it a bit more bearable |
| 16:40.19 | KotCzarny | gpd: that's a question for a local lawyer |
| 16:40.20 | KotCzarny | :> |
| 16:40.25 | qwerty12 | uses apt-get and dpkg only :/ |
| 16:40.29 | mysc | johnx, i'll be playing with making my debian card later one. so help along the way would be much appreciated. |
| 16:40.55 | mysc | later on |
| 16:41.06 | johnx | uhm sure, but it's pretty simple to get started :) just tar jxvf foo.tar.bz2 |
| 16:41.22 | gpd | I can't get a straight answer from o2 - hoped someone here does it. |
| 16:41.41 | johnx | gpd, that sounds a lot like "using the phone as a modem" |
| 16:41.59 | qwerty12 | Same here, but I'm on Orange UK so I'm not really sure about 02 - UK. |
| 16:42.01 | johnx | I would say O2 could claim that's what you are doing and it would be difficult to argue |
| 16:42.09 | mysc | how do you get the tarball onto the card in the first place? |
| 16:42.21 | gpd | a while ago someone mentioned that thetherining to HSDPA goes under the radar somehow... ie not a modem - but a direct link? feasible - or nonsense? |
| 16:42.28 | johnx | you uhm...download it |
| 16:42.33 | johnx | or use a card reader on your PC |
| 16:43.12 | johnx | gpd, ah...so you want to know whether they'll catch you or not? :P |
| 16:43.22 | mysc | no card reader :( |
| 16:43.32 | gpd | johnx: :) |
| 16:43.43 | johnx | mysc, just plug the n800 into your desktop with usb. instant card reader :) |
| 16:43.50 | mysc | h0h0 |
| 16:44.18 | mysc | and from slack ima just mkfs? |
| 16:44.26 | johnx | yeah |
| 16:44.47 | johnx | or do it on the tablet itself |
| 16:44.48 | *** join/#maemo MangoFusion (n=jamesu@host86-159-88-124.range86-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 16:44.48 | mysc | i need to make sure i get the device names right, don't wanna fry my flash |
| 16:45.04 | KotCzarny | just check the sizes |
| 16:45.04 | qwerty12 | Flash would be / |
| 16:45.06 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 16:45.08 | johnx | you can't access flash through USB |
| 16:45.12 | KotCzarny | with df or cfdisk |
| 16:45.18 | johnx | or the NAND where the OS lives |
| 16:45.33 | johnx | s/or// |
| 16:45.44 | mysc | OK. i presume you put the debian on the ext card? |
| 16:48.17 | johnx | or the int card |
| 16:48.27 | mysc | ima psyched now. gonna go get my 800. bbl. |
| 16:48.30 | *** join/#maemo shackan (n=frob@host151-80-dynamic.57-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 16:48.53 | mysc | great chat, will report tonight hopefully with xfce on board. |
| 16:49.05 | johnx | sounds good |
| 16:52.20 | *** join/#maemo Blastur (n=blastur@kr-lun-168-149-233-83.3.cust.bredband2.com) |
| 16:52.45 | Blastur | hey! anyone know where i can find a working list of package repositories? gromayer.com/it seems to be malfunctioning |
| 16:53.12 | GAN800 | Extras is the only important one. |
| 16:53.31 | johnx | heh |
| 16:53.31 | GAN800 | The rest of them you can pretty much go without. |
| 16:53.49 | GAN800 | At least until gronmayer is back. |
| 16:54.07 | Blastur | id like a repo with aircrack-ng in it |
| 16:54.10 | Blastur | anyone know one? |
| 16:54.22 | qwerty12 | I think mulliners has it |
| 16:54.38 | *** join/#maemo konttori (n=konttori@a88-113-140-60.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 16:55.29 | Blastur | ah, great |
| 16:55.29 | Blastur | thanks |
| 16:55.42 | qwerty12 | http://www.mulliner.org/nokia770/ |
| 16:55.42 | *** join/#maemo eathprod (n=user@194.117.188.161) |
| 16:55.49 | qwerty12 | Has one click install for OS2008 :) |
| 16:56.22 | qwerty12 | Yeah, just checked, chinook aircrack-ng is there. |
| 16:56.51 | *** join/#maemo greentux (n=lemke@Z60d9.z.pppool.de) |
| 16:57.15 | *** join/#maemo Sho_ (i=ehs1@kde/hein) |
| 16:57.59 | johnx | hmm...running kismet shows I should switch my WLAN to a different channel... |
| 16:58.05 | Blastur | btw, is it possible to tunnel all traffic through a socks server? |
| 16:58.29 | Blastur | like i can setup a "global" http-proxy, is it possible to do the same with socks? |
| 16:58.45 | mysc | can i rm -rf ./mozilla (to remove all my cache)? |
| 16:58.51 | *** join/#maemo solarion (n=solarion@cruftix.physics.uiowa.edu) |
| 16:59.29 | qwerty12 | You can do but you can also do it from the browser itself. |
| 16:59.41 | mysc | how? |
| 16:59.56 | KotCzarny | socks trafficking? O.o |
| 17:00.13 | qwerty12 | mysc, Menu > Tools > Clear > Cache |
| 17:00.17 | *** join/#maemo cekay (n=cekay@xdsl-213-196-225-113.netcologne.de) |
| 17:00.17 | mysc | found it :) |
| 17:00.54 | *** join/#maemo Sho_ (i=ehs1@kde/hein) |
| 17:02.37 | mysc | how do you clear the xterm history? "history -c" doesn't work |
| 17:02.51 | qwerty12 | rm the .ash_historyfile? |
| 17:03.55 | mysc | yep!, okay tablet is clear. |
| 17:04.19 | qwerty12 | Don't worry, I won't tell about the pr0n you were wgetting :p |
| 17:04.30 | mysc | shhh!! |
| 17:04.38 | qwerty12 | hehe |
| 17:11.56 | Blastur | hmm, what is the root password of my n810? |
| 17:12.02 | Blastur | or how do i become super user? |
| 17:12.08 | johnx | khertan_, I've been running kismet for 30 minutes now and collected 25,000 packets. How long does it usually take to have the channell hopping die? |
| 17:12.33 | qwerty12 | Blastur, www.nitapps.com |
| 17:12.40 | johnx | Blastur, go to nitapps.com and install easyroot or install openssh server and ssh in or use flasher to put your tablet into rd mode |
| 17:14.29 | Blastur | thanks |
| 17:16.41 | *** join/#maemo eton_ (n=eton@ppp-58-8-8-81.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 17:17.27 | qwerty12 | My user name is on a word list. Should I be proud? |
| 17:19.51 | KotCzarny | if it's not a blacklist or hitlist.. |
| 17:20.04 | *** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@gozur.sunflowerbroadband.com) |
| 17:20.19 | qwerty12 | If it's hitlist, goodbye all. I guess Nokia would want to kill me with the Diablo stuff :p |
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| 17:22.06 | johnx | khertan_, hmm...actually something is definitely a little bit off with kismet. It's really showing me a lot of random networks, including misnamed versions of my own AP |
| 17:22.29 | johnx | what kind of problems should I be looking for? |
| 17:23.19 | *** join/#maemo dmsuperman_ (n=dmsuperm@cpe-75-185-4-94.columbus.res.rr.com) |
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| 17:26.33 | Blastur | where did you find kismet, johnx ? |
| 17:26.39 | *** join/#maemo megabyte405 (n=ryan@user-0cdvlum.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 17:26.56 | johnx | I'm using the one from debian |
| 17:27.08 | Blastur | not on n810? |
| 17:27.20 | johnx | on n800 |
| 17:27.37 | Blastur | which repository url is that? |
| 17:27.57 | johnx | my n800 is running debian |
| 17:28.24 | johnx | so it's ftp.us.debian.org/debian unstable main |
| 17:28.27 | Blastur | oh.. okay. is it really stable yet? or are you developing? |
| 17:28.46 | johnx | kismet or debian? |
| 17:28.52 | *** join/#maemo jeff1f (n=dack@adsl-75-40-255-153.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net) |
| 17:28.52 | Blastur | debian on n810 |
| 17:28.58 | Blastur | i read that it has no sound and that power management isnt perfected yet |
| 17:29.05 | johnx | sound works |
| 17:29.11 | johnx | power management still needs more work |
| 17:29.57 | johnx | I'm not going to put much more work into it for a while...so if you're waiting for it to be perfect it might be a long wait... |
| 17:30.45 | kulve | johnx: what have you done for it? Where are the patches? :) |
| 17:31.15 | johnx | debian? |
| 17:31.51 | johnx | I've copied a whole bunch of stuff from os2008 to make sound work. and put together a tarball out of stuff other people have made |
| 17:32.39 | kulve | so, you haven't patched any sources and compiled the whole thing? |
| 17:32.48 | johnx | nope |
| 17:32.57 | *** part/#maemo eathprod (n=user@194.117.188.161) |
| 17:32.58 | johnx | I've compiled maybe one package |
| 17:33.17 | Blastur | im quite happy with os2008 |
| 17:33.17 | johnx | tablet-utils from pkg-maemo.alioth.debian.org's bzr repo |
| 17:33.36 | johnx | good |
| 17:33.39 | johnx | so am I :) |
| 17:33.43 | johnx | I still use it everyday |
| 17:33.47 | Blastur | btw, does gps work on debian johnx ? and if so, is it better Time to fix? |
| 17:34.01 | *** join/#maemo pH5 (n=user@e178220077.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:34.01 | johnx | aaah...gps on the n810 |
| 17:34.06 | johnx | now that is a good question |
| 17:34.15 | johnx | I don't have an n810 so I haven't done any work on that |
| 17:34.27 | Blastur | oh ok. n800 doesnt have gps or? |
| 17:34.36 | johnx | nope |
| 17:35.05 | johnx | accepting n810 donations in return for support :P |
| 17:35.34 | *** join/#maemo krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132) |
| 17:35.52 | *** join/#maemo l7 (n=l7@evil-wire.org) |
| 17:36.32 | lopz | re |
| 17:38.26 | Blastur | hehe, ill remember than when i get fed up with mine johnx |
| 17:38.39 | Blastur | didn't someone mention a Openstreetmap program for N810? |
| 17:38.44 | Blastur | i cant find it on maemo.org |
| 17:38.53 | johnx | maemomapper? roadmap? navit? |
| 17:39.43 | Blastur | i'd like to edit the maps.. maemo mapper only seems to provide read-only access |
| 17:39.51 | *** join/#maemo flo_lap (n=fuchs@f049186137.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:39.56 | johnx | aaah |
| 17:39.58 | Saviq | Blastur: edit maps? |
| 17:40.12 | glass | for fixing them i suppose |
| 17:40.19 | t_s_o | well its official, nokia wants nothing to do with my wsod 770. sadly it brught it via expansys, as they where selling of some leftover us ones in europe... |
| 17:40.31 | Blastur | openstreetmap is an ongoing effort, i have added pretty much all roads in my town |
| 17:40.48 | Blastur | it'd be really good if i could walk around adding stuff like parking spaces and pubs in "real time" |
| 17:40.54 | *** join/#maemo guenther (n=guenther@IP-213157009244.dialin.heagmedianet.de) |
| 17:41.07 | Blastur | otherwise its so much work to do when you get home and unload the gps traces |
| 17:41.07 | glass | surely some of the apps has points of interest adding? |
| 17:41.25 | Blastur | yeah, but this is not POIs, this is openstreetmap tags |
| 17:41.40 | Blastur | so i need something like JOSM (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/JOSM) |
| 17:41.58 | Blastur | but java is not available, right? |
| 17:42.01 | *** join/#maemo dholbert (n=dholbert@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com) |
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| 17:45.39 | glass | dunno how java on maemo has progressed |
| 17:45.45 | glass | there was some effort for it tho |
| 17:45.56 | glass | that would be probably too heaby |
| 17:47.27 | *** join/#maemo thopiekar (n=thopieka@p57A13889.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 18:07.36 | johnx | khertan_, ok...It looks like after 1 hour 16 minutes it's stopped seeing new packets this time :/ |
| 18:07.58 | johnx | sorry if I got your hopes up |
| 18:09.25 | *** part/#maemo thopiekar (n=thopieka@p57A13889.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 18:17.29 | Blastur | hmm |
| 18:17.40 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (n=hannes@chello062178165054.12.14.vie.surfer.at) |
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| 18:18.55 | Blastur | im trying to bounce traffic via my n810, so i set /proc/sys/ipv4/forward = 1 on my N810, and then on my workstation, i set the IP of my n810 as gateway. It seems to work, but as soon as the n810 detects that the workstation has a better (direct) path to the real router, it sends ICMP redirect messages |
| 18:19.09 | Blastur | how can I prevent this and make sure all traffic goes through the n810, even though its not the optimal path |
| 18:19.35 | AStorm | disable redirects :> |
| 18:19.42 | AStorm | also in /proc/sys/ipv4 |
| 18:22.22 | *** join/#maemo felipec (n=felipec@a91-153-254-143.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 18:24.02 | Blastur | i did .. /proc/sys/net/ipv4/conf/all/send_redirects = 0 |
| 18:24.08 | Blastur | however, it still sends them according to wireshark |
| 18:25.16 | AStorm | that's not it |
| 18:25.20 | AStorm | wrong option |
| 18:25.33 | *** join/#maemo seraph1 (n=Ernesto@200-71-150-172.static.telcel.net.ve) |
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| 18:27.41 | Blastur | which one is it then? |
| 18:29.22 | AStorm | that, and secure_redirects |
| 18:30.43 | *** join/#maemo mazzen__ (n=mortel@u30-237.dsl.vianetworks.de) |
| 18:31.17 | Blastur | still sending them :( |
| 18:31.25 | Blastur | do i need to reload something after changing these? |
| 18:37.22 | Blastur | test |
| 18:38.28 | *** join/#maemo m-c (n=mmm@ubuntu/member/desertc) |
| 18:38.30 | m-c | hi |
| 18:38.44 | m-c | you maemo devs seen the iphone? |
| 18:39.04 | m-c | I just got shown a bunch of features this weekend |
| 18:39.17 | m-c | the virtual keyboard has some really nice UI features: |
| 18:39.33 | m-c | 1) keys expand above the cursor so you can see what you are hitting |
| 18:39.48 | m-c | 2) the key will not depress until you RELEASE the cursor |
| 18:40.09 | johnx | I think most people here have used an ipod touch/iphone at some point... |
| 18:40.17 | m-c | right away, wondered whether there were people bringing this to the NIT |
| 18:41.03 | m-c | johnx: you would think so, but I could not see how someone could use that virtual keyboard and not want to put those features into a NIT right away |
| 18:41.24 | inz | m-c, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrWpUBTDDr0 |
| 18:42.05 | johnx | re: 2) That's the same behavior on the tablet |
| 18:42.26 | johnx | Also, there's nothing stopping someone from making a hildon input method that has features like that |
| 18:44.01 | *** join/#maemo smackpotato (n=user@bas4-sudbury98-1279295016.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 18:44.36 | m-c | what is that software called that does the virtual keyboard on the NIT? |
| 18:45.06 | qwerty12_N800 | apt-get source hildon-input-method |
| 18:45.24 | m-c | qwerty12_N800: thank you |
| 18:45.51 | m-c | Nokia_Support: Please hire Edge from that youtube video straight-away. All the best. |
| 18:45.59 | m-c | *Edje |
| 18:46.07 | m-c | ;-) |
| 18:46.17 | pupnik | synergy |
| 18:46.19 | m-c | inz: Yes, that is exactly what I mean |
| 18:46.20 | AStorm | johnx: not exactly the same |
| 18:46.30 | m-c | inz: do you have any other insight into that demo ? |
| 18:46.33 | AStorm | Nokia has autorepeat |
| 18:46.38 | AStorm | which sucks |
| 18:47.12 | *** join/#maemo eton_ (n=eton@ppp-58-8-8-81.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 18:47.18 | johnx | AStorm, actually I was just playing with it and realized there was a "gesture" for "space" |
| 18:47.50 | m-c | I see there is more information in the youtube comments |
| 18:48.34 | m-c | ... because, the NIT virtual keyboard... it's not good, at least compared to the iPhone virtual keyboard |
| 18:48.48 | m-c | in terms of usability |
| 18:49.07 | johnx | I prefer it to the iphone keyboard, but everyone has an opinion |
| 18:49.27 | roope | the iPhone one is predictive, the tablet one is not. It's a quite big difference. |
| 18:49.28 | m-c | I see iPhone people tapping out messages quickly, and I see NIT people buying bluetooth keyboards |
| 18:49.33 | *** join/#maemo playya (n=playya@p57B29C4F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:49.54 | johnx | I can type pretty quickly on the onscreen keyboard actually |
| 18:49.55 | unixSnob | Navi, are you around? |
| 18:49.55 | unixSnob | wonders if navi is south african |
| 18:49.59 | m-c | and the limitation just seems to be the two UI things I mentioned |
| 18:50.05 | AStorm | roope: that's optional in iPhone |
| 18:50.20 | AStorm | m-c: that's because of use case |
| 18:50.24 | AStorm | NIT is a PC |
| 18:50.28 | AStorm | iPhone is a phone |
| 18:50.37 | johnx | m-c, the "zoom" thing is probably difficult to do without dedicated 3D |
| 18:50.43 | m-c | if the NIT had "click on release" |
| 18:50.55 | *** join/#maemo eton (n=eton@ppp-58-8-8-81.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 18:50.56 | AStorm | johnx: it's actually simple, heh |
| 18:51.00 | m-c | at least on the keyboard, it would be a lot more helpful |
| 18:51.17 | AStorm | m-c: hmm, not as nice as you think |
| 18:51.19 | johnx | AStorm, aaah...I wasn't remembering the effect properly |
| 18:51.34 | johnx | (also, iphone users don't use bt keyboards because they *can't*) |
| 18:51.45 | AStorm | yep |
| 18:51.50 | m-c | I am not someone who thinks all things apple should be on linux, but when you see a UI design that works really well, then I think it should get incorporated |
| 18:52.00 | acydlord | i preferred the NIT virtual keyboard |
| 18:52.14 | AStorm | well, actually we're missing source code to some of the components |
| 18:52.25 | acydlord | it's annoying when a predictive input keyboard shrinks the letter you want to type |
| 18:52.29 | johnx | m-c, well filing an enhancement request with Nokia on bugs.maemo.org would be a good place to start |
| 18:52.33 | AStorm | do we have code for handwriting recognition? hildon-input-method? virtual keyboard? |
| 18:52.36 | johnx | or coding up a demo in python |
| 18:52.43 | AStorm | or both :> |
| 18:52.55 | johnx | AStorm, the actual keyboard itself? I think not, sadly :/ |
| 18:53.04 | m-c | AStorm: the youtube video shows that someone has the code available for just what I was saying was needed, about a year ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrWpUBTDDr0 |
| 18:53.07 | roope | http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=5964&tag=nl.e622 |
| 18:53.33 | AStorm | ~lart Nokia and their lawyers |
| 18:53.33 | infobot | sends a legion of lawyers after Nokia and their lawyers's head |
| 18:53.36 | roope | But then again, people prefer anecdotal stuff more. |
| 18:53.39 | *** join/#maemo philipl_ (i=1000@c-67-164-5-76.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 18:53.43 | AStorm | infobot: lol |
| 18:53.44 | infobot | from memory, lol is stands for Laughing Out Loud. It is grammatically incorrect to use LOL in the first person; use 'heh' or 'haha' instead. If you want to use LOL, do '/me lol' instead. |
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| 18:54.03 | AStorm | what a pointless bot |
| 18:54.06 | johnx | m-c, but it was never plugged into the actual input method if I recall |
| 18:54.26 | AStorm | well, plugging it in (hackish) is simple |
| 18:54.40 | AStorm | you just need to set a certain tag on the window |
| 18:54.53 | AStorm | and it will be nicely swallowed, hidden and shown when needed |
| 18:55.21 | johnx | ah, interesting |
| 18:56.49 | AStorm | hildon-im just sends proper X events |
| 18:57.05 | AStorm | its window isn't focused (that'd break stuff) |
| 18:57.29 | johnx | ah...wow that's actually a lot more reasonable than I thought! |
| 18:58.03 | johnx | m-c, well, I nominate you to develop a demo to get other people interested |
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| 18:58.20 | m-c | roope: interesting link, thx |
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| 18:59.10 | roope | But there is of course a difference between what it _feels_ like to use and what the actual average input speed is. |
| 18:59.17 | roope | subjective feelings are of course important also. |
| 18:59.19 | m-c | johnx: like I said, I am only interested in what people were thinking about it. I do not know how someone could have seen it and not said, "yeah, the NIT needs it" |
| 19:00.12 | m-c | roope: my perspective is just watching three different people using iphones at a conference, and hearing the rapid "pop, pop, pop, pop" of their finger typing |
| 19:00.38 | johnx | I actually like the fullscreen keyboard quite a bit, and I have had a chance to try an ipod touch |
| 19:01.01 | roope | m-c: In best cases it works very well, yes. Once people learn and start to trust it, and don't write anything that strange, especially in English. |
| 19:01.09 | AStorm | yep |
| 19:01.16 | AStorm | other languages *will* have problems |
| 19:01.36 | m-c | I have no doubt QWERTY typing is faster |
| 19:01.41 | AStorm | btw, NIT has predictive text for handwriting recognition |
| 19:01.55 | m-c | but I would not mind seeing a comparison of NIT finger typing and iPhone typing |
| 19:01.56 | AStorm | so it shouldn't be too hard for Nokia to add it to the keyboard |
| 19:02.08 | qwerty12_N800 | has no doubt too ;) |
| 19:02.11 | AStorm | m-c: anyway, N810 has a hardware keyboard |
| 19:02.12 | johnx | it's also has some prediction with the keyboards... |
| 19:02.12 | roope | astorm: No, there's no predictive text. |
| 19:02.25 | AStorm | roope: there are dictionary suggestions |
| 19:02.32 | AStorm | so, predictive text |
| 19:02.34 | AStorm | :> |
| 19:02.47 | roope | :) Well, but not in the capacity you would need for a iphone style keyboard. |
| 19:03.01 | AStorm | enough :> |
| 19:03.20 | johnx | but the iphone keyboard is more "corrective" than predictive |
| 19:03.24 | m-c | http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/30/tenacious-hacker-brings-the-iphone-keyboard-to-a-nokia-n800/ |
| 19:03.33 | *** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@gozur.sunflowerbroadband.com) |
| 19:04.01 | roope | That thing that Gustavo did is nice but a very superficial copy of it, there's no intelligence behind it. |
| 19:04.08 | johnx | and thus we circle back to the original video... |
| 19:04.16 | roope | The speed doesn't really come from type on release. |
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| 19:04.57 | AStorm | johnx: well, that's easy to do |
| 19:05.05 | m-c | speed comparison >>> http://snoyt.vox.com/library/post/n800810-n95-and-iphone-typing-speeds-and-their-future.html |
| 19:05.17 | AStorm | n95 is smaller ;P |
| 19:05.25 | AStorm | compare n810 please |
| 19:05.30 | AStorm | or n800 |
| 19:05.35 | m-c | they do |
| 19:05.43 | AStorm | n810 hardware keyboard still wins ;P |
| 19:06.18 | johnx | looks like the n800 wins :P |
| 19:06.24 | AStorm | m-c: as you see, N800 won |
| 19:06.43 | AStorm | and they can't use n810 hardware keyboard properly ;P |
| 19:06.49 | AStorm | maybe too big thumbs |
| 19:07.33 | m-c | well, it is one study, but I am willing to admit I am wrong |
| 19:07.40 | m-c | *it is just one study |
| 19:07.45 | acydlord | i started typng on my n810 a lot faster after i got my centro |
| 19:07.53 | t_s_o | hmm, is that os07? i seem to get way to many wayward presses on my N800... |
| 19:07.54 | AStorm | :> |
| 19:07.58 | acydlord | as the centro has the smallest qwerty keyboard i have ever seen |
| 19:08.03 | m-c | I would be happily surprised if my n800 has the fastest input method |
| 19:08.13 | AStorm | acydlord: you see, I also got practice |
| 19:08.23 | AStorm | and that guy probably didn't have any |
| 19:08.28 | johnx | even if it's not the fastest it's still perfectly reasonable |
| 19:08.30 | acydlord | yeah |
| 19:08.32 | roope | m-c: Basically. Um. If you want a fast input method, you need a hardware keyboard. |
| 19:08.36 | qwerty12_N800 | Has anyone tried quikscript (something like that)? |
| 19:08.36 | t_s_o | btw, is there supposed to be a keyboard press sound on the N800 fullscreen keyboard? |
| 19:08.46 | roope | the iPhone predictive and tablet non-predictive reach about the same speeds. |
| 19:08.49 | AStorm | t_s_o: it's optional afaicr |
| 19:08.55 | AStorm | you can turn it on in the options |
| 19:09.18 | AStorm | roope: so tablet predictive could be better still |
| 19:09.32 | AStorm | I wonder how that compares to trained Dasher ;> |
| 19:09.44 | AStorm | the only problem with it is that it requires full attention |
| 19:09.44 | roope | astorm: I ... I don't think that there are studies that would show that predictive input is... would be faster. |
| 19:09.46 | AStorm | (visual) |
| 19:09.48 | m-c | roope: I want an accurate input method, actually |
| 19:10.08 | roope | It's faster than multitap, but there aren't studies that would show that it's faster than a proper size non-predictive. |
| 19:10.09 | AStorm | m-c: yeah, they should measure error rate |
| 19:10.43 | m-c | actually, the fullscreen virtual keyboard is pretty good |
| 19:10.47 | t_s_o | AStorm: i only find the generic touch screen sound. no matter what level i set that keyboad option in "sounds" to i get nothing... |
| 19:11.09 | roope | It has always two sides: for the times that it corrects user input, it a) user might feel from his muscle memory that he typed wrong anyway and stop to check, b) the "correction" might actually be wrong, c) the user needs to stop and see that the prediction agrees with the user. |
| 19:11.13 | m-c | dunno - I should think about it a bit more - look up some other studies online. Just wanted to get people's opinions here. thanks for your insights |
| 19:11.17 | roope | These extra steps eat away the gains of a predictive system. |
| 19:11.22 | AStorm | t_s_o: that's for the full screen keyboard |
| 19:11.23 | m-c | roope: interesting |
| 19:11.38 | AStorm | roope: yes |
| 19:11.50 | AStorm | Dasher has nifty error correction mode |
| 19:11.56 | roope | (as a sidenote, I wrote my master's thesis on text input... And well, I actually designed the NIT virtual input methods, so...) |
| 19:12.03 | AStorm | although I could use a "jump to previous letter" key |
| 19:12.04 | t_s_o | AStorm: and thats what i was looking for. but no matter what i set it to i only get the generic touchscreen sound... |
| 19:12.07 | roope | So I have some opinions on these matters. :) |
| 19:12.10 | AStorm | like a backspace |
| 19:12.21 | AStorm | t_s_o: hm |
| 19:12.30 | AStorm | probably a bug, go notify Nokia |
| 19:12.36 | t_s_o | yay... |
| 19:12.39 | roope | Still, I'm not here to say that they aren't perfect, they certainly aren't. |
| 19:12.55 | roope | (minus n't) |
| 19:13.06 | AStorm | KotCzarny: could you build new Dasher package for me? |
| 19:13.10 | AStorm | just for testing |
| 19:13.18 | AStorm | no need for GNOME or speech support |
| 19:13.42 | johnx | roope, very cool. I didn't know what was you :) |
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| 19:14.24 | roope | http://maemo.org/intro/presentations/ my thesis is there, if you're interested. :) |
| 19:14.47 | AStorm | roope: btw, how does chord typing fare? |
| 19:15.03 | roope | astorm: Umm, with chord hardware and plenty of time, yes it's quite fast. |
| 19:15.06 | AStorm | (I know, impossible on N8x0, no multitouch) |
| 19:15.22 | roope | Chord typing is rather different than multitouch input. |
| 19:15.33 | AStorm | hmm? |
| 19:15.42 | AStorm | i know it is |
| 19:16.21 | AStorm | I'd have to check if N8x0 touchscreen (if it supported multitouch) could be used as chord input |
| 19:16.28 | roope | Things like that fall into the category of being interesting things that will 'never' really go to a mass market device, unfortunately. |
| 19:16.35 | AStorm | yep |
| 19:16.52 | AStorm | I'd rather have those 3D gloves ;) |
| 19:16.54 | roope | Chord input on a touch screen would ... be just slower, actually. |
| 19:17.16 | roope | Since if you assume that normal input is a quick tap in and out, chord input requires multiple inputs in and out. It cannot be faster, it can be slower. |
| 19:17.27 | Veggen | hmm. Anyone knows if Sandisk 8GB mini-SDHC works in n810? |
| 19:17.39 | AStorm | Veggen: mini? they have one? |
| 19:17.47 | Veggen | eh, micro. |
| 19:17.53 | AStorm | ah, that one, yes, it does |
| 19:18.04 | roope | Unless you assume that you can hold your fingers still with the chord touchscreen version. But you can't really if there are no hard keys. |
| 19:18.44 | Veggen | ok. Almost picked one up on impulse, but he said they didn't have a "no questions asked"-return policy, so I didn't. |
| 19:18.46 | AStorm | really, have to check how well dasher does with the pen |
| 19:19.26 | Veggen | (here, you can always return if it's defective, but return because it wasn't the right purpose-device isn't guaranteed by law) |
| 19:19.33 | AStorm | stupid GTK input box insert a tab when you send them tab key event |
| 19:19.36 | *** join/#maemo mgedmin (n=mg@195.182.77.65) |
| 19:19.39 | AStorm | or that's just stupid XChat ;P |
| 19:19.43 | roope | astorm: Advanced users of Dasher can reach speeds of 15-25 wpm. |
| 19:19.50 | AStorm | -35 |
| 19:19.51 | AStorm | :-) |
| 19:20.13 | AStorm | it needs a better "back out" mode |
| 19:20.14 | roope | Yes, the mouse version is faster, I actually quoted the eye version. |
| 19:20.27 | AStorm | pen should be faster than mouse |
| 19:20.54 | roope | Well, not really. The speed is more governed by the mental stuff happening in the mind. :) |
| 19:21.01 | roope | You need to see and think what you're doing. |
| 19:21.08 | AStorm | It'll lose anyway. |
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| 19:21.19 | roope | Scan all the options. I've tried to learn Dasher for some time, it's ... exhausting. :) |
| 19:21.42 | *** join/#maemo cekay (n=cekay@xdsl-87-79-218-21.netcologne.de) |
| 19:21.54 | AStorm | Not that much. |
| 19:22.15 | *** join/#maemo dhr (n=hugh@CPE00606767ed59-CM000f9fa81660.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 19:22.44 | AStorm | The trick is keeping constant pace. |
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| 19:23.04 | m-c | what's a good, inexpensive BT keyboard solution? |
| 19:23.34 | AStorm | And mobile? |
| 19:23.44 | roope | Stowaway keyboard is quite nice. |
| 19:23.49 | roope | You don't want a crappy, mobile one. :D |
| 19:23.54 | roope | that would kind of ruin the whole point. |
| 19:24.11 | johnx | roope, did you design the fullscreen keyboard as well? |
| 19:24.14 | AStorm | But it's expensive. |
| 19:24.31 | roope | johnx: yeah. |
| 19:24.35 | timely | m-c/ johnx: having used the ipod touch on a number of occasions, i hate its keyboard |
| 19:24.38 | roope | It's ... well, it's functional. |
| 19:24.52 | m-c | I am thinking about an apple bt keyboard -- I do not need an ultra-mobile one |
| 19:25.05 | m-c | timely interesting |
| 19:25.20 | AStorm | Yeah, it's okay. |
| 19:25.38 | m-c | roope: I keep hearing about the stowaway, and I see a lot of people using htem with the NIT. where did you buy yours? |
| 19:26.00 | roope | m-c: I don't actually know. Nokia has a nice system of getting stuff. ;) |
| 19:26.06 | roope | It just arrives. |
| 19:26.10 | timely | fwiw, i would like to see an osk keyboard where key sizes varied (among other things) |
| 19:26.11 | AStorm | I wanted to steal one ;) |
| 19:26.13 | m-c | :) :) :) |
| 19:26.33 | roope | but out of the ones I've tried the Stowaway is probably the best. It folds quite nicely etc. |
| 19:26.53 | timely | AStorm: sadly hildon-im does trigger resizes, and that *does* break stuff |
| 19:26.59 | m-c | what is the model number you like roope? |
| 19:27.13 | m-c | they have different stowaways |
| 19:27.19 | keesj | register now it is free! |
| 19:27.30 | roope | http://homepage.mac.com/axg4903/images/770keyboard.jpg it's the one that looks like this. |
| 19:27.39 | m-c | ty |
| 19:27.48 | roope | I think it's just Stowaway Bluetooth Keyboard, really. |
| 19:27.51 | AStorm | heh, caught a bug |
| 19:27.56 | AStorm | in xfce4-panel version I have |
| 19:27.59 | roope | It was some years ago, i'm not sure if they have newer ones. |
| 19:28.18 | johnx | IIRC, there is a similar foldable keyboard with 5 rows |
| 19:28.19 | hrw | roope: did you one of guys who also wrote control-panel for choosing keyboard layout/language? |
| 19:28.46 | roope | hrw: Umm, well. I'm an interaction designer, so I don't write them. But yes, I've specified some of them. |
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| 19:29.06 | roope | (just avoiding any possible blame beforehand ;) |
| 19:29.17 | hrw | roope: please kick that someone's ass from me. |
| 19:29.25 | roope | hrw: what's the matter there? |
| 19:29.29 | *** join/#maemo p| (n=kvirc@62.13.169.90) |
| 19:29.47 | hrw | roope: no possibility to add own layout of internal n810 hw keyboard |
| 19:30.23 | timely | hrw: are you sure? |
| 19:30.26 | timely | it's just software |
| 19:30.31 | roope | hrw: Well, it's technically not easy to do. And besides, if there are printings on the keys, then umm. |
| 19:30.40 | timely | roope: oh give me a break |
| 19:30.44 | timely | nokia already messed that up |
| 19:30.44 | hrw | timely: it is just *closed* software |
| 19:30.54 | timely | hrw: i'll black box with you if you need |
| 19:31.01 | timely | you can get a device from one region |
| 19:31.07 | timely | and switch the hardware keylayout |
| 19:31.09 | hrw | roope: technically it is *easy* to do. look at ukeyboard package which do that |
| 19:31.15 | timely | when you do, there are 5 keys which rotate their blue function |
| 19:31.21 | hrw | timely: to one of provided ones |
| 19:31.25 | timely | which is just insane |
| 19:31.36 | timely | => roope |
| 19:31.37 | hrw | timely: I can not add Polish layout to that list |
| 19:31.43 | roope | hrw: Well, it wasn't really seen as a use case that normal users would do. The effort to build the UI would be rather big. |
| 19:32.00 | AStorm | roope: while you're at it, add an option for user dictionaries too |
| 19:32.05 | timely | hrw: hrm, so you want to know how to force the ui to list polish as a selectable layout? |
| 19:32.13 | timely | gimme a bit to pull up a vpn |
| 19:32.13 | roope | Developers can create their own ones manually and then put them into the device. |
| 19:32.16 | hrw | timely: exactly |
| 19:32.26 | AStorm | I'd love to get that handwriting recognition to recognize Polish chars too :> |
| 19:32.30 | roope | astorm: you can choose a custom dictionary. I think. |
| 19:32.34 | hrw | roope: maemo team lack lot of use cases |
| 19:32.38 | AStorm | just needs a minor expansion |
| 19:32.48 | roope | hrw: I think lacking that use case is a good thing. |
| 19:32.48 | *** join/#maemo fab (n=bellet@bellet.info) |
| 19:32.53 | AStorm | (like, "add character" |
| 19:33.08 | AStorm | btw, it balks after you add too many character signatures |
| 19:33.11 | hrw | roope: I would not agree |
| 19:33.15 | AStorm | I mean, too many custom ones |
| 19:33.27 | AStorm | can't add any more then |
| 19:33.39 | AStorm | and the error message is not too precise |
| 19:33.47 | roope | With limited resources the question is that do we put designers doing stuff like that or then doing actually something that people need and want and would help sell the devices. |
| 19:33.47 | AStorm | need to write a bug about that ;P |
| 19:33.48 | hrw | roope: current maemo i18n situation is deeply broken |
| 19:33.54 | roope | And I don't think that feature would really sell more devices. |
| 19:34.11 | AStorm | roope: well, bugs != features I hope? |
| 19:34.14 | *** join/#maemo liquid217 (n=chatzill@www.crsonesource.com) |
| 19:34.20 | hrw | roope: then open sources of that application so we will be able to provide patches for review |
| 19:34.26 | roope | astorm: Well, bugs are a separate issue of cousre. |
| 19:34.27 | AStorm | (about that epitext or what it's called) |
| 19:34.33 | roope | hrw: I'm all for open sourcing them. |
| 19:34.41 | AStorm | adding your own chars to be recognized there would be great |
| 19:34.59 | timely | hrw: sadly i suspect things aren't open sourced for reasons that are equivalent to them having poor scalability |
| 19:35.04 | timely | lack of focus / desire |
| 19:35.04 | hrw | roope: I heard that in 2012 sources of 2005 calculator will be finally open |
| 19:35.17 | AStorm | ;P |
| 19:35.28 | roope | I couldn't care less about the sources of the calculator app, really. |
| 19:35.40 | hrw | timely: look at ukeyboard source - it is very easy to read and expand |
| 19:35.51 | hrw | timely: and it do the same thing as maemo closed one |
| 19:36.01 | timely | hrw: you don't want me to look at the open source code |
| 19:36.12 | timely | if i'm about to look at the closed source code and give you black box hints |
| 19:36.28 | hrw | timely: ok |
| 19:36.31 | roope | For the keyboard issue there is not intentional done from preventing people to create new keymaps, there is just no UI in the device for it. |
| 19:36.46 | AStorm | s/in the device/in the applet/ |
| 19:36.50 | AStorm | there's no need for UI to add |
| 19:36.57 | timely | hrw: ok, can you give me some string unique to the ui in question? |
| 19:36.57 | AStorm | there is need for UI to select :> |
| 19:37.04 | timely | like the window title or label? |
| 19:37.07 | hrw | roope: there is no new ui for it |
| 19:37.14 | timely | roope: this is stupid |
| 19:37.17 | hrw | timely: control panel -> regional & settings |
| 19:37.18 | AStorm | yep, selector is just broken |
| 19:37.26 | timely | hrw: pretend i don't have a device handy |
| 19:37.27 | roope | timely: could you be a bit more specific? |
| 19:37.34 | hrw | timely: moment then |
| 19:37.35 | timely | could you be patient? |
| 19:37.38 | timely | i'm not a fast typist |
| 19:37.51 | timely | all it needs is a way to check a file system directory and list each item from that directory |
| 19:37.56 | roope | Perhaps you could start with the issue first and then add the opinion, and not the other way round. |
| 19:37.59 | timely | it can use the filenames to lookup their localized translations |
| 19:38.10 | timely | there's a keyboard layout chooser |
| 19:38.17 | timely | it presumably has a hard coded list of entries |
| 19:38.21 | timely | and hrw wants to add polish |
| 19:38.34 | timely | i'm not sure it's hard coded yet, i'll find out once hrw helps me find the code |
| 19:38.42 | AStorm | :> |
| 19:38.44 | roope | Yes, it might be hard coded, since all of those names are localized. |
| 19:38.47 | hrw | timely: 'keyboard layout' is one message |
| 19:38.53 | roope | And there is one for each sales region for the device. |
| 19:38.58 | AStorm | roope: I smell misfeature :> |
| 19:39.17 | AStorm | can't you people just use gettext? |
| 19:39.17 | timely | roope: so what? |
| 19:39.26 | timely | AStorm: no, we have to do it "better" |
| 19:39.32 | timely | you can switch hardware layouts from the ui |
| 19:39.41 | timely | and the result is Blue incompatible w/ the layout |
| 19:39.47 | timely | which means we clearly don't care |
| 19:39.55 | AStorm | yep |
| 19:40.02 | AStorm | but, we can write new layouts |
| 19:40.02 | timely | therefore that is not a valid reason to block accepting a third party layout |
| 19:40.07 | timely | as for l10n of the string |
| 19:40.09 | timely | that is solvable |
| 19:40.11 | AStorm | :-) |
| 19:40.16 | AStorm | yes, it is |
| 19:40.25 | AStorm | just use gettext properly |
| 19:40.34 | AStorm | and not hardcode names everywhere |
| 19:40.37 | timely | AStorm: don't mention gettext |
| 19:40.39 | AStorm | :> |
| 19:40.48 | AStorm | ok, then write your own tiny variant |
| 19:40.48 | hrw | timely: or 'Finnish/Swedish/Norwegian/Danish' is other text |
| 19:41.00 | timely | hrw: your first string worked |
| 19:41.02 | timely | patience |
| 19:41.05 | hrw | ok |
| 19:41.05 | *** join/#maemo pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0EE14.access.telenet.be) |
| 19:41.07 | roope | Well, yes, for that particular issue you might want to put a bug in the bugzilla. Perhaps Richard or Tomas can then comment. |
| 19:41.20 | roope | It's how it's been implemented. |
| 19:41.32 | hrw | roope: maemo bug #2899 is filled |
| 19:41.33 | timely | this seems to come from hildon-input-method-plugins |
| 19:41.34 | AStorm | Ok, I finally have to write these two annoying bugs in closed code |
| 19:41.37 | pvanhoof | test |
| 19:41.42 | hrw | pvanhoof: failed |
| 19:42.09 | AStorm | about epitext |
| 19:42.09 | roope | hwr: ok, that's good to know. |
| 19:42.09 | *** join/#maemo khertan (n=khertan@AAmiens-151-1-59-54.w83-192.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 19:42.09 | khertan | Hi ! |
| 19:42.09 | AStorm | pvanhoof: enter password to continue |
| 19:42.27 | qwerty12_N800 | Theres ur password ;P |
| 19:42.28 | hrw | AStorm: do not mention any i18n bugs rather - nokia devs do not even use strftime() |
| 19:42.29 | khertan | Does someone can say me if sqlite3 is a default module of python2.5-runtime or does if it s a python2.5 module available in extras ? |
| 19:42.44 | AStorm | hrw: it's not that bad |
| 19:42.46 | *** join/#maemo pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0EE14.access.telenet.be) |
| 19:42.54 | AStorm | I mean, just make an option to add a symbol to epitext |
| 19:42.55 | hrw | AStorm: really? look at clock applet |
| 19:42.59 | AStorm | could be really useful |
| 19:43.06 | AStorm | hrw: well, I know ;P |
| 19:43.27 | Saviq | AStorm: what's wrong with the clock applet? |
| 19:43.28 | AStorm | maybe even s/symbol/word/ |
| 19:43.32 | hrw | AStorm: on my tablet it should say "Wtorek" not "Tuesday" |
| 19:43.37 | johnx | khertan, I believe python2.5-runtime does not depend on any sqlite stuff |
| 19:43.41 | Saviq | hrw: it does, on mine |
| 19:43.43 | AStorm | Saviq: it can't use i18n'd names |
| 19:43.49 | timely | hrw: sorry, reading this code isn't easy |
| 19:44.04 | AStorm | timely: hack over hack over bandaid? :P |
| 19:44.15 | Saviq | hrw: mine's 'wtorek\n2008-05-20' |
| 19:44.20 | hrw | Saviq: but you installed whole Polish translation - right? |
| 19:44.24 | Saviq | yes |
| 19:44.29 | hrw | Saviq: I do not |
| 19:44.32 | AStorm | that fakes it, yep |
| 19:44.34 | timely | AStorm: i'm not a native gtk speaker |
| 19:44.39 | AStorm | timely: ah |
| 19:44.40 | Saviq | ah ok |
| 19:44.48 | timely | oh |
| 19:44.51 | timely | there we go |
| 19:44.53 | timely | how nice |
| 19:44.56 | hrw | Saviq: normal gtk apps show Wtorek with my Polish regional settings and English language |
| 19:44.58 | timely | static FOOPY barpy[] = |
| 19:44.59 | timely | { |
| 19:45.01 | timely | {...} |
| 19:45.03 | timely | ... |
| 19:45.03 | timely | } |
| 19:45.07 | AStorm | rotfl |
| 19:45.18 | AStorm | ~lart static arrays of text |
| 19:45.18 | infobot | farts in static arrays of text's general direction |
| 19:45.19 | Saviq | hrw: understood |
| 19:45.22 | timely | i hate to ask |
| 19:45.24 | AStorm | infobot: suck |
| 19:45.25 | infobot | hey, i'm on lunchbreak, screw off |
| 19:45.31 | timely | do those fields change their values when you change languages? |
| 19:45.36 | timely | e.g. switch your language to russian |
| 19:45.40 | timely | what does it say? |
| 19:45.50 | timely | if so, tell roope to bugger off wrt localizability :) |
| 19:46.03 | hrw | timely: rotfl!!! |
| 19:46.22 | *** join/#maemo svu (n=svu@089-101-187063.ntlworld.ie) |
| 19:46.24 | timely | hrw: well, come on, check ;-) |
| 19:46.26 | hrw | now I know why it is closed.... |
| 19:46.37 | timely | it's too embarassing to release? :) |
| 19:46.42 | timely | (sp) |
| 19:46.50 | AStorm | they should anyway |
| 19:46.58 | AStorm | a team of cleaners would make it shine |
| 19:47.06 | timely | or commit suicide |
| 19:47.08 | AStorm | would game |
| 19:47.12 | AStorm | no, why |
| 19:47.19 | AStorm | we could rewrite the worst parts |
| 19:47.21 | khertan | johnx: thx, i ask because i ve two sqlite module in my nit |
| 19:47.27 | timely | each person has a tolerance for bad code |
| 19:47.31 | hrw | timely: restarting to Dansk language |
| 19:47.43 | johnx | khertan, I got it running with the pysqlite you showed me |
| 19:47.44 | AStorm | so, someone with high tolerance would rewrite it to something better |
| 19:47.49 | hrw | AStorm: we would replace it with ukeyboard code |
| 19:47.55 | AStorm | maybe |
| 19:48.03 | timely | hrw: anyway... i think it should be possible for you to write a binary patch |
| 19:48.13 | timely | or possibly if you understand gtk well enough some sort of library patch |
| 19:48.15 | AStorm | timely: that is so wrong |
| 19:48.36 | timely | AStorm: you don't want to reimplement this whole thing |
| 19:48.45 | AStorm | we already did |
| 19:48.48 | hrw | timely: I can even try to catch my left elbow with left hand |
| 19:48.49 | AStorm | it's called ukeyboard |
| 19:49.02 | *** join/#maemo Ulysses222 (n=daniel@218.63.161.205) |
| 19:49.04 | timely | it replaces the pref panel in control panel? |
| 19:49.09 | hrw | timely: it does |
| 19:49.21 | hrw | timely: but it cannot replace pref panel in onscreen keyboard |
| 19:49.30 | timely | oh sure it can |
| 19:49.38 | hrw | but it does not |
| 19:49.40 | timely | goes looking for apis |
| 19:50.04 | *** join/#maemo christefano (n=christef@ppp-69-238-216-75.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 19:51.52 | AStorm | btw, is the variant of matchbox used in Maemo OSS? |
| 19:52.18 | AStorm | because, it crashes on me for some reason, I want to debug that |
| 19:52.25 | timely | yes |
| 19:52.29 | timely | http://mxr.maemo.org/os2008/source/matchbox-window-manager-1.2/ |
| 19:52.36 | AStorm | mhm |
| 19:52.43 | AStorm | debug build exists? |
| 19:52.47 | timely | http://timeless.justdave.net/maemo/mxr-maemo-org-dns-0.1.deb |
| 19:52.55 | timely | you need that deb installed to use the previous url |
| 19:53.11 | AStorm | mhm |
| 19:53.14 | timely | um... doubtful |
| 19:53.19 | timely | but you can rebuild it yourself |
| 19:53.24 | AStorm | yes, I can |
| 19:53.34 | AStorm | I mean, I will be able to in a few days |
| 19:53.41 | AStorm | finally some "free" time |
| 19:54.22 | timely | ok |
| 19:55.46 | *** join/#maemo thopiekar (n=thopieka@p57A13889.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:56.44 | *** join/#maemo summatusmentis (n=summatus@70.158.103.10) |
| 19:56.49 | *** part/#maemo summatusmentis (n=summatus@70.158.103.10) |
| 19:56.54 | *** join/#maemo summatusmentis (n=summatus@70.158.103.10) |
| 19:56.57 | *** join/#maemo jnettlet (n=jnettlet@c-76-118-159-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 19:57.06 | m-c | hmm - trying to contact someone on Voice over IP using Google Talk, but Command Center will only let me chat with them |
| 19:57.14 | timely | struct _private2 { GTypeInterface base_iface; GtkWidget *(*meth1) ( _private1*, _private3, GtkSizeGroup *, gint*); void (*meth2)( _private1*, const gchar*, GType, gpointer); void (*meth3) (_private1*, _private3); void (*meth4) (_private1*); void (*meth5) (_private1*, _private4*); } |
| 19:57.31 | AStorm | hopefully these aren't real names :-) |
| 19:57.33 | m-c | I wonder if I have something misconfigured, or if the Google Talk interface only allows chat and not SIP |
| 19:57.52 | AStorm | w/o access to the headers we can't use that API |
| 19:58.00 | hrw | I love api with lot of "private" names |
| 19:58.03 | summatusmentis | m-c: I don't believe it supports sip? |
| 19:58.11 | timely | i'm not sure i'm allowed to disclose such things |
| 19:58.13 | hrw | execPrivate13() in AmigaOS was nice |
| 19:58.20 | timely | so what i'm providing is merely an ABI |
| 19:58.25 | AStorm | execPrivateRyan ;P |
| 19:58.34 | hrw | timely: can we summary it? |
| 19:58.43 | AStorm | timely: which will be broken in the next version? |
| 19:58.51 | AStorm | that's heart-warming |
| 19:58.51 | timely | AStorm: um... lemme check :) |
| 19:59.33 | AStorm | Nokia could at least provide headers for the darned binary stuff |
| 19:59.47 | m-c | summatusmentis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_talk |
| 20:00.07 | hrw | timely: os2008 control panel for selecting keyboards use hardcoded lists of entries without any possibility to add new entries. It is also written so ugly that no one want to show its code to outside people (probably to not increase amount of people who died laughing). |
| 20:00.13 | AStorm | btw, is there a version of mencoder for NIT? (could be nice for MJPEG and screencaps) |
| 20:00.14 | timely | well, os 2007 didn't have the same api afaict :) |
| 20:00.35 | summatusmentis | m-c: I stand corrected |
| 20:00.36 | hrw | timely: os2007 use gtk 2.6 so it is normal that gtk related api changed |
| 20:00.41 | m-c | summatusmentis: perhaps you were saying Command Center does not support voice with Google Talk ? But, regardless, Google Talk does support voice |
| 20:00.55 | timely | hrw: this is just the api that opens the settings dialog and friends :) |
| 20:01.03 | summatusmentis | m-c: no, I was confused. I don't have an NIT yet |
| 20:01.18 | m-c | summatusmentis: oh, you are in for a treat when you get one :) |
| 20:01.18 | AStorm | timely: yet they couldn't make it public for some reason or another? doh! |
| 20:01.32 | hrw | AStorm: we have to get used to it |
| 20:01.50 | AStorm | and they couldn't use dbus to launch it either... |
| 20:01.59 | hrw | AStorm: nokia just prefer to ignore people from 'we-do-not-like-you' countries |
| 20:02.01 | m-c | anyone here done a voice chat using google talk with their NIT ? |
| 20:02.01 | summatusmentis | m-c: I'm hoping so. I'm hoping it's all it's cracked up to be |
| 20:02.10 | *** join/#maemo jukey (n=user@BAA2d6f.baa.pppool.de) |
| 20:02.10 | AStorm | stabs randomly around |
| 20:02.36 | m-c | summatusmentis: it has some getting used to - it is obviously not a laptop interface, but it is a true pocket pc |
| 20:02.56 | summatusmentis | m-c: well, I'm used to GPE on a Zaurus |
| 20:03.30 | summatusmentis | but my Z is big, and I wish it had better wifi range, hence, the NIT |
| 20:03.48 | timely | afaict in gagarin this stuff was just a "standard" maemo "thing" |
| 20:04.20 | AStorm | hmmhmmm |
| 20:04.28 | hrw | timely: gagarin was 3-4 years ago |
| 20:04.54 | timely | hrw: thankfully https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/hildon-test-aut-tc-commit/2007-August/000024.html gagarin is not 100% private as black words go :) |
| 20:07.27 | AStorm | hrw: where can I grab maemopad+ source code? |
| 20:07.35 | m-c | I see - it is an Google Talk account thing - needs to authorize communication access :) :) |
| 20:07.36 | hrw | AStorm: garage? |
| 20:07.45 | AStorm | Have to fix major screwups in db handling and add resizable canvas support |
| 20:08.01 | AStorm | and maybe real export |
| 20:08.10 | hrw | timely: thx for help and answering questions. |
| 20:08.21 | hrw | also for providing some fun about maemo code |
| 20:08.25 | summatusmentis | what browser does maemo use?(default) |
| 20:08.36 | timely | microb / mozilla based browser for maemo ... |
| 20:08.40 | AStorm | yep |
| 20:08.51 | timely | http://mxr.maemo.org/garage/source/maemopadplus/ |
| 20:09.07 | AStorm | The requested URL /garage/source/maemopadplus/ was not found on this server. |
| 20:09.16 | timely | "https://garage.maemo.org/svn/maemopadplus/trunk" |
| 20:09.16 | hrw | summatusmentis: it is based on firefox 3.0-alpha code |
| 20:09.21 | timely | AStorm: you need to install that deb |
| 20:09.34 | summatusmentis | hrw: oh, cool :) |
| 20:09.34 | AStorm | uhm, tried a brower.... |
| 20:09.37 | timely | http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/source/maemopadplus/trunk/.svn/entries |
| 20:09.39 | timely | otherwise urls look like that ^ |
| 20:09.53 | timely | AStorm: the deb adds a /etc/hosts line for mxr.maemo.org |
| 20:10.03 | AStorm | mhm |
| 20:10.07 | hrw | 66.33.212.254 mxr.maemo.org |
| 20:10.10 | timely | the deb is open source ;) |
| 20:10.11 | AStorm | ok |
| 20:10.28 | timely | http://timeless.justdave.net/maemo/mxr-maemo-org-dns-0.1/ |
| 20:10.32 | hrw | having deb package for such change is overload of packaging ;) |
| 20:10.43 | timely | hrw: it means you can uninstall it ! |
| 20:10.50 | timely | and it was fun to write :) |
| 20:11.07 | timely | and it's reusable code, i have 2 debs that do the same thing :) |
| 20:11.13 | AStorm | timeless: wth? there's almost no code in it... |
| 20:11.24 | timely | AStorm: to add a line to /etc/hosts ? |
| 20:11.25 | AStorm | *timely |
| 20:11.28 | AStorm | no no |
| 20:11.34 | AStorm | maemopadplus |
| 20:11.35 | timely | AStorm: i am timeless |
| 20:12.15 | timely | http://mxr.maemo.org/garage/source/maemopadplus/trunk/unified/src/ui/ |
| 20:12.22 | AStorm | as I expected |
| 20:12.25 | timely | callbacks.c 117k Nov 21 18:53 |
| 20:12.29 | AStorm | it loads the whole database at once |
| 20:12.29 | timely | interface.c 34k Nov 21 18:53 |
| 20:12.32 | timely | sketchwidget.c 46k Nov 21 18:53 |
| 20:12.33 | AStorm | *stabs* |
| 20:12.38 | timely | not exactly tiny |
| 20:12.43 | AStorm | tiny enough |
| 20:12.46 | AStorm | could use some splitting |
| 20:13.00 | AStorm | callbacks.c is evil ;P |
| 20:13.12 | timely | waits for the xref to finish parsing callbacks |
| 20:13.24 | hrw | AStorm: svn checkout https://garage.maemo.org/svn/maemopadplus |
| 20:13.26 | timely | well, it might not be sqlite (combined form) |
| 20:13.31 | AStorm | 9 indentation levels in sketchwidget.c ;P |
| 20:13.45 | timely | but 4000 lines isn't shabby |
| 20:14.01 | AStorm | this code needs some love |
| 20:14.03 | timely | AStorm: anyway, for quick searches through garage, i hope you find mxr useful |
| 20:14.14 | timely | sadly i don't update the index very often |
| 20:14.16 | timely | but... |
| 20:14.22 | AStorm | timely: it's great, yes |
| 20:14.46 | timely | goes back to hrw |
| 20:15.22 | summatusmentis | how's the CPU on the N810? full screen video works? |
| 20:15.25 | timely | ok, first public entrypoint |
| 20:15.41 | AStorm | summatusmentis: it does, more or less |
| 20:15.47 | AStorm | maybe some skipping |
| 20:15.49 | johnx | summatusmentis, video up to around 5xx X 3xx works and plays fullscreen |
| 20:15.57 | AStorm | it depends on the codec and compression level |
| 20:15.57 | johnx | 800x480 video isn't going to happen |
| 20:16.02 | summatusmentis | johnx: ok, cool |
| 20:16.07 | AStorm | johnx: no, it does play DVD-class |
| 20:16.09 | summatusmentis | thanks AStorm, also |
| 20:16.11 | hrw | summatusmentis: 400x240 scalled videos plays |
| 20:16.12 | timely | _private4 hildon_im_settings_plugin_manager_new(void); |
| 20:16.14 | *** join/#maemo andre___ (n=user@conference/ubuntu-developer-summit/x-487c4f73dc1dbeec) |
| 20:16.18 | timely | hrw: you need to export that :) |
| 20:16.34 | johnx | AStorm, hmm? 720x480? |
| 20:16.37 | AStorm | yes |
| 20:16.45 | AStorm | w/o or with just minor skipping |
| 20:16.47 | johnx | at 30fps? |
| 20:16.49 | AStorm | DivX |
| 20:16.50 | AStorm | yes |
| 20:16.58 | AStorm | mplayer of course |
| 20:17.00 | johnx | uhm...with magic? |
| 20:17.02 | timely | hildon_im_settings_plugin_manager_destroy(_private4*); |
| 20:17.02 | summatusmentis | hrw: alright, fair enough. Much better than on the Z |
| 20:17.15 | hrw | timely: possible without internal maemo headers? |
| 20:17.16 | AStorm | johnx: no magic |
| 20:17.24 | timely | hrw: yes |
| 20:17.24 | johnx | AStorm, it would have to be skipping frames until it was down to about 20 I would imagine |
| 20:17.35 | AStorm | not really |
| 20:17.41 | timely | hrw: you'll basically get to replace the .so that is the current thing |
| 20:17.42 | AStorm | might be 25 fps, I'm not sure |
| 20:17.50 | *** join/#maemo Free_maN (n=Free_maN@unaffiliated/freeman) |
| 20:17.51 | AStorm | it visibly skips in a few high-speed scenes |
| 20:17.58 | AStorm | but never <17 or so |
| 20:17.59 | timely | hrw: i need to poke eero or someone |
| 20:18.02 | timely | oh |
| 20:18.03 | timely | sorry |
| 20:18.14 | timely | _private4* hildon_im_settings_plugin_manager_new(void); |
| 20:18.26 | timely | curses people for putting pointers on the wrong side of spaces |
| 20:18.35 | timely | be wary of pointers... they're obviously important :) |
| 20:18.56 | timely | note to people who might be nosy: these entrypoints could be found by using nm |
| 20:18.59 | AStorm | timely: well, Nokia could just use dbus some more |
| 20:19.12 | timely | AStorm: quiet, i'm working :) |
| 20:19.17 | AStorm | that's easier to plug into |
| 20:19.18 | AStorm | ;) |
| 20:19.33 | timely | gboolean hildon_im_settings_plugin_manager_load_plugins(_private4*); |
| 20:20.08 | timely | GSList* hildon_im_settings_plugin_manager_get_plugins(_private4*); |
| 20:20.12 | AStorm | ok, so who will get me some screencap tool and mencoder for Maemo? |
| 20:20.14 | johnx | AStorm, I'd believe 24fps with some skipping |
| 20:20.30 | AStorm | johnx: I can get you a benchmark :> |
| 20:20.37 | AStorm | a nice feature of mplayer |
| 20:20.48 | timely | void hildon_im_settings_plugin_manager_set_internal_value(_private4*, GType, gchar*, gpointer); |
| 20:20.50 | AStorm | although the movie is long |
| 20:20.59 | johnx | AStorm, I don't doubt that mplayer can decode the movie |
| 20:21.12 | johnx | I doubt that our LCD controller bus can accept the data |
| 20:21.13 | timely | void hildon_im_settings_plugin_manager_unset_internal_value(_private4*, gchar*); |
| 20:21.15 | *** join/#maemo MangoFusion (n=jamesu@host86-159-88-124.range86-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 20:22.05 | timely | gpointer hildon_im_settings_plugin_manager_get_internal_value(_private4*, gchar*, GType *); |
| 20:22.19 | AStorm | johnx: I'll check the size, I might be wrong :-) |
| 20:23.00 | johnx | I don't really care all that much...I just don't want to create false hope for summatusmentis |
| 20:23.02 | timely | osso_context_t* hildon_im_settings_plugin_manager_get_context(_private4*); |
| 20:23.11 | hrw | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:23.15 | hrw | 20 22:27 < timely> _private4* hildon_im_settings_plugin_manager_new(void); |
| 20:23.21 | hrw | whic one is proper one? |
| 20:23.26 | AStorm | johnx: ok, I fail |
| 20:23.34 | timely | void hildon_im_settings_plugin_manager_set_context(_private4*, osso_context_t*); |
| 20:23.35 | johnx | hmm? |
| 20:23.38 | AStorm | it's 528x272 |
| 20:23.54 | timely | hrw: eww, did i write that? heh |
| 20:24.03 | timely | pretend i only ever wrote _private4* :) |
| 20:24.09 | hrw | timely: which one is proper one? your or http://mxr.maemo.org/os2008/source/hildon-input-method-1.99.33/src/hildon-im-settings-plugin.h one? |
| 20:24.20 | *** join/#maemo mk8 (n=GLaforge@151.16.206.191) |
| 20:24.26 | timely | oh? it's open? |
| 20:24.26 | timely | bah |
| 20:24.35 | timely | ... |
| 20:24.42 | timely | this is why people should use the cross reference |
| 20:24.46 | AStorm | :> |
| 20:25.21 | timely | goes to ask the xref to compare them |
| 20:25.46 | *** join/#maemo gnuSnob (n=jgombos@70-9-212-115.area4.spcsdns.net) |
| 20:25.58 | timely | i don't think they changed the api since 2008 |
| 20:26.05 | timely | they weren't supposed to have |
| 20:26.47 | timely | you should find that what i wrote is equivalent to what's there, except i tried to replace words i wasn't sure were public w/ "private" and "meth" and friends :) |
| 20:26.59 | hrw | ukeyboard do not use hildon_im_settings api |
| 20:27.11 | timely | you need to implement it |
| 20:27.20 | timely | because that's what the soft keyboard uses to talk to settings |
| 20:27.33 | timely | if you implement it, you can replace the stupid settings dialog |
| 20:27.36 | hrw | heh... I love to reinvent wheel |
| 20:27.49 | hrw | ~curse nOKIA |
| 20:27.49 | infobot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, nOKIA ! |
| 20:27.52 | timely | it could be worse |
| 20:28.00 | hrw | timely: really? |
| 20:28.00 | *** join/#maemo JackCrow (i=jcrow@gateway/tor/x-3e172faa570e4e2d) |
| 20:28.05 | timely | they could have statically linked in the ui :) |
| 20:28.19 | hrw | timely: I would prefer to have whole maemo closed then current situation |
| 20:28.30 | hrw | situation would be much cleaner then |
| 20:28.38 | timely | shrugs |
| 20:29.16 | *** join/#maemo smancke (n=smancke@ip-62-143-122-209.hsi.ish.de) |
| 20:29.41 | *** part/#maemo smackpotato (n=user@bas4-sudbury98-1279295016.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 20:30.34 | hrw | now it is like: to get battery info you need closed binary, to change hw keyboard layout you need to rewrite few maemo components from scratch, to do X you need to hack nokia binary, to do Y you need 3rd party util, to do ...... |
| 20:31.09 | timely | so much more excitement this way |
| 20:31.13 | hrw | if maemo would be 100% closed (except (l)gpl 3rdparty components) it would be much easier - I would not buy that device at all |
| 20:31.14 | timely | it'd be boring otherwise |
| 20:31.29 | timely | see, precisely my point :) |
| 20:31.31 | hrw | timely: no - I would be able to run own linux system on it |
| 20:31.54 | timely | shrugs |
| 20:32.06 | hrw | now I cannot use own linux system because nokia blocks it very badly with closed components like wifi/battery |
| 20:32.12 | timely | i don't think you'll find many nokians who actually like the current situation |
| 20:32.27 | timely | wifi was a hardware choice |
| 20:32.45 | timely | they took an available component whose source they couldn't share |
| 20:32.49 | timely | can you blame them? |
| 20:33.07 | hrw | timely: no, but I can blame them for a way which they go |
| 20:33.08 | AStorm | I can blame them for not working with conexant on a driver :> |
| 20:33.09 | timely | would you pay 800EUR for a device just like the n800 but w/ open source drivers for the wifi chip |
| 20:33.19 | AStorm | the driver it somewhat done |
| 20:33.27 | hrw | I would like to have umac.fw loaded by opened driver |
| 20:33.29 | AStorm | someone ported a bit of prism54 to SPI interface |
| 20:33.45 | AStorm | so, Nokia could hire someone to finish the job |
| 20:33.45 | hrw | or having umac.o with opensource wrapper |
| 20:33.57 | AStorm | hrw: uhm, that's the current state |
| 20:34.06 | AStorm | umac.o wrapped by open driver |
| 20:34.11 | timely | thought we were very close to that |
| 20:34.18 | hrw | AStorm: which does not work with 2.6.25 |
| 20:34.20 | johnx | umac.ko is a separate module |
| 20:34.32 | AStorm | hrw: it only needs hacking |
| 20:34.37 | AStorm | minor too |
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| 20:34.43 | hrw | umac.ko can be stripped to umac.o but it is hack |
| 20:34.43 | AStorm | the open part, not the umac |
| 20:34.48 | AStorm | yes |
| 20:34.54 | AStorm | minor and simple hack |
| 20:35.32 | hrw | umac.fw would be better way anywya |
| 20:35.45 | AStorm | uhm, it can't be done that way |
| 20:35.55 | AStorm | umac is not just firmware |
| 20:35.58 | hrw | anyway we have it like we have. |
| 20:36.03 | AStorm | it's not uploaded anywhere |
| 20:36.13 | timely | hrw: anyway, that file is equivalent to what i have |
| 20:36.17 | timely | so yes, just implement that |
| 20:36.26 | hrw | it can be hacked to be used with non-maemo systems (like Poky or other OE based) |
| 20:36.29 | AStorm | so yes, just port prism54 to SPI |
| 20:36.33 | hrw | but lack of battery info suxx |
| 20:36.34 | AStorm | and add support for that chip |
| 20:36.43 | timely | oh wait |
| 20:36.46 | timely | chuckles |
| 20:36.56 | timely | hrw: the settings stuff seems to be open too |
| 20:37.01 | timely | http://mxr.maemo.org/os2008/source/hildon-input-method-1.99.33/src/hildon-im-settings-plugin.c#450 |
| 20:37.18 | timely | so you could just hack it directly... |
| 20:37.24 | johnx | hrw, there is a way to get battery info by polling retu |
| 20:37.26 | timely | or copy what you need |
| 20:37.33 | hrw | johnx: with charging? |
| 20:37.34 | AStorm | exactly, there is |
| 20:37.41 | AStorm | hrw: yes, with charging state |
| 20:37.50 | hrw | nice |
| 20:38.00 | AStorm | Retu has a correct kernel driver :> |
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| 20:38.06 | johnx | bme needs to do the actual charging, I believe |
| 20:38.10 | hrw | ok - time to back to qemu hacking |
| 20:38.12 | johnx | but the info is available |
| 20:38.15 | AStorm | yes |
| 20:38.40 | timely | hrw: anyway... in this case... the code you wanted was open |
| 20:38.52 | AStorm | so we're only missing wifi and powervr |
| 20:39.02 | AStorm | and DSP kernel |
| 20:39.08 | hrw | AStorm: powervr... |
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| 20:39.23 | johnx | hrw, see "kcbatt" for an example of an app that reads retu-adc and prints battery level |
| 20:39.46 | hrw | ok |
| 20:40.17 | AStorm | we're missing minor voltage control stuff, but Menelaus is well documented, so writing a driver is simple |
| 20:40.34 | johnx | it's also an example of how much free time KotCzarny has O_o |
| 20:41.04 | timely | AStorm: i thought nokia was also missing powervr |
| 20:41.15 | AStorm | timely: no, they have the driver for N95 and up |
| 20:41.27 | AStorm | for Symbian |
| 20:41.49 | timely | yeah, that's helpful |
| 20:41.50 | AStorm | there is a closed 3D Linux driver |
| 20:41.55 | timely | s/nokia/maemo/ |
| 20:42.16 | AStorm | rewrite it to be open+blob and it's good to go |
| 20:44.12 | timely | 120 g_debug ("Not a HildonIMSettignsPlugin: %s. Skip it.", g_module_error ()); |
| 20:44.14 | timely | sighs |
| 20:44.22 | timely | high quality published code |
| 20:44.32 | AStorm | :> |
| 20:44.34 | timely | so guys... the code is open, why isn't there a patch to fix the spelling? :) |
| 20:44.45 | timely | http://mxr.maemo.org/os2008/source/hildon-input-method-1.99.33/src/hildon-im-settings-plugin.c#120 |
| 20:44.59 | AStorm | because nobody has checkin rights to that SVN |
| 20:44.59 | *** join/#maemo jegp (n=jegp@200.26.178.201) |
| 20:45.17 | timely | file a bug in bugs.maemo.org w/ a patch |
| 20:45.20 | AStorm | and it's not important enough to post a patch through bugs |
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| 20:45.31 | AStorm | too much overhead ;> |
| 20:45.34 | timely | has no idea if there's actually a public svn for it |
| 20:46.10 | timely | http://mxr.maemo.org/maemo/source/projects/haf/trunk/hildon-input-method/ |
| 20:46.17 | timely | shows that there *is* a public svn |
| 20:46.30 | AStorm | ok, maemopad+ is a total mess |
| 20:46.33 | timely | http://mxr.maemo.org/maemo/source/projects/haf/trunk/hildon-input-method/.svn/entries |
| 20:46.34 | timely | 5 https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/hildon-input-method |
| 20:46.40 | AStorm | I'll better rewrite it in Python. |
| 20:46.51 | AStorm | will be 15 KB or so ;P |
| 20:46.57 | AStorm | (of code) |
| 20:47.05 | timely | anyway... |
| 20:47.11 | timely | please browse around mxr.maemo.org :) |
| 20:47.16 | AStorm | :-) |
| 20:47.30 | timely | it's not perfect, but i think you'll find it can be quite helpful |
| 20:48.15 | timely | wonders why mxr.maemo.org's l&f doesn't match timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test |
| 20:48.51 | AStorm | why oh why people continue to use plain C for UI apps... |
| 20:48.57 | AStorm | or C++ for that matter |
| 20:49.03 | AStorm | they're not meant for that |
| 20:49.06 | AStorm | :> |
| 20:49.15 | johnx | pokes at sapwood/hildon-desktop on the zaurus... |
| 20:49.41 | summatusmentis | is hildon the wm? |
| 20:49.47 | AStorm | no |
| 20:49.53 | AStorm | it's the graphic toolkit |
| 20:49.57 | AStorm | a variant of GTK |
| 20:49.59 | johnx | summatusmentis, matchbox is the wm |
| 20:50.11 | summatusmentis | johnx: right... |
| 20:50.15 | summatusmentis | AStorm: oh, ok, thanks |
| 20:50.31 | Jaffa | re |
| 20:50.40 | timely | hrw: /join #hrw |
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| 20:51.09 | AStorm | timely: well, there's /invite ;) |
| 20:51.28 | Jaffa | should probably not have a moan at ppl on maemo-dev when he's feeling ill. Oh well, too late. |
| 20:52.57 | AStorm | timely: I suspect there are Python bindings to hildon and that nice sketch widget? |
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| 21:01.13 | AStorm | ah, it's been implemented by hand |
| 21:01.32 | AStorm | still need Python hildon bindings |
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| 21:03.45 | AStorm | omg, maemopad+ stores full GC pixmaps for undo |
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| 21:09.48 | johnx | hey rm_you| |
| 21:10.10 | rm_you| | hey johnx |
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| 21:19.53 | timely | AStorm: i use /invite |
| 21:20.01 | timely | but i can never be sure if people see it |
| 21:20.19 | timely | and i don't really care if other people seem me inviting ... if people join, i'll kick em :) |
| 21:22.17 | hrw | timely: I did not noticed that invite |
| 21:22.38 | hrw | but thats due to separate status window |
| 21:23.01 | AStorm | ok, what's the name of Python hildon bindings? |
| 21:23.15 | AStorm | are there any? |
| 21:23.34 | hrw | http://ok.research.nokia.com/pipermail/qemu-arm/2008-April/000060.html anyone? |
| 21:23.35 | lmoura | AStorm, package python2.5-hildon |
| 21:23.42 | AStorm | mhm |
| 21:23.46 | AStorm | which Python package? |
| 21:23.51 | AStorm | hildon.*? |
| 21:24.17 | lmoura | oh |
| 21:24.19 | lmoura | hildon |
| 21:24.50 | AStorm | argh, no .py file |
| 21:24.52 | AStorm | stabs |
| 21:25.22 | *** join/#maemo vcgomes (n=Vinicius@189.70.25.218) |
| 21:25.52 | AStorm | no docs either |
| 21:25.56 | AStorm | stabs again |
| 21:26.47 | AStorm | oh no, a separate file dialog :P |
| 21:28.47 | Jaffa | hrw: link no worky (and s/ok.// gives 404) |
| 21:29.11 | AStorm | some seekrit server |
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| 21:29.49 | Blafasel | Hrmpf. Nokia died today. At least everything S60 |
| 21:30.14 | hrw | Jaffa: its internal nokia server ;( I got that url as referrer to one of my blog posts |
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| 21:32.08 | Jaffa | hrw: interesting |
| 21:33.22 | Blafasel | Can anyone comment on the inability of S60 to use S40 supported bluetooth profiles? Is that a known fact and I just ran into it blindly? |
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| 21:40.21 | hrw | Blafasel: iirc it is #maemo not #nokia |
| 21:40.21 | timely | Jaffa / hrw: fwiw, ok is a generic server, kinda like swift |
| 21:40.26 | timely | it happens to host mailing list archives |
| 21:40.30 | timely | which is why it'd show up |
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| 21:44.13 | RST38h | gentlemen, how do I delete a branch from gconf during postinst? |
| 21:45.44 | Saviq | anyone savvy in why would canola not be able to read id3 tags from some songs of mine? I suppose it doesn't do ogg yet, either? |
| 21:46.11 | handfulOf_nothin | hey |
| 21:46.20 | handfulOf_nothin | enter #canola we can help you (I lead the project ) |
| 21:46.36 | Saviq | yeah I noticed the nick |
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| 21:46.40 | RST38h | hello handful |
| 21:46.43 | handfulOf_nothin | savi : it indeed does, but it seems that tuomas support still with problems in his repos. .then we are waiting |
| 21:46.45 | handfulOf_nothin | : / |
| 21:46.47 | Saviq | didn't know there was a channel |
| 21:46.54 | handfulOf_nothin | yes.. enter there we will get your files.. |
| 21:46.56 | handfulOf_nothin | and try to debug.. |
| 21:47.12 | handfulOf_nothin | it's possible a bug in our code : / so we need files from all around the world to improve the code :) |
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| 22:20.22 | RST38h | X-Fade: Here? |
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| 22:43.50 | summatusmentis | http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/20/nokia-definitely-preparing-linux-based-phones-flavor-unknown/ ?? |
| 22:43.55 | summatusmentis | that might be exciting :) |
| 22:45.00 | lopz | hola |
| 22:46.49 | flo_lap | Using my s60 phones here I would say that there is no way to avoid this for Nokia. |
| 22:48.09 | flo_lap | Basically s60 is not bad, but integration of "modern" features like wifi and sip is bad. |
| 22:49.30 | summatusmentis | flo_lap: you're talking about the linux thing I linked to? |
| 22:49.51 | summatusmentis | one of the comments discusses closed dev branches of maemo, how true is this? |
| 22:50.09 | flo_lap | summatusmentis: yes |
| 22:50.14 | timely | closed dev branches? |
| 22:50.26 | timely | there are various groups which go off into the woods doing strange things |
| 22:50.30 | timely | sometimes they never come back |
| 22:50.58 | summatusmentis | "Nokia is increasingly exerting proprietary control over Maemo via closed development branches, which will accelerate after the Trolltech acquisition is complete. This is one of the reasons why multiple developers have left Nokia's Maemo development team, citing philosophical differences within the company. |
| 22:51.04 | summatusmentis | You'll soon see the S60 UI evolve to run atop the Maemo platform in place of Symbian. At that point, Nokia will own the whole widget, which is exactly what they've always wanted. |
| 22:51.06 | flo_lap | summatusmentis: well... quite likely, but they won't tell you. I know Nokia does a lot of research with devices and Linux. |
| 22:51.07 | summatusmentis | " |
| 22:51.10 | timely | my guess is he's talking about the gtk devs |
| 22:51.28 | summatusmentis | oh, I didn't see the update on that. maybe not specifically phones |
| 22:51.42 | summatusmentis | although, I'd love a carrier that had a linux phone worth purchasing |
| 22:51.47 | timely | afaik the amount of closed code in maemo hasn't significantly increased in recent memory |
| 22:52.05 | flo_lap | summatusmentis: quite likely, that's Nokias core competence - and they are really good with UIs |
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| 22:52.46 | summatusmentis | flo_lap: maemo based linux though? |
| 22:52.58 | summatusmentis | or some stupid linux + proprietary everything else like Moto does? |
| 22:53.12 | flo_lap | timely: Right, not for the tablets but there might be other projects. |
| 22:53.39 | timely | shrugs |
| 22:53.41 | flo_lap | summatusmentis: that's hard to guess... you never know |
| 22:53.56 | timely | i suppose you could argue that skype and the 2008 maps apps are "closed source" |
| 22:54.03 | jdiaz | hola lopz |
| 22:54.03 | summatusmentis | yeah... I hate all this guessing stuff :) |
| 22:54.06 | timely | however, skype is a third party app |
| 22:54.15 | timely | and maps is a bundled third party app |
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| 22:55.06 | lopz | heya jdiaz ! |
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| 22:57.00 | summatusmentis | can Nokia now fix the US flight system, so that there aren't stupid delays related to weather? |
| 22:57.23 | timely | heh |
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| 22:59.34 | timely | offers summatusmentis a tornado warning |
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| 23:02.39 | summatusmentis | timely: that's the last thing I need. There is rain in Newark, and I've been delayed for 3 hours now |
| 23:04.20 | timely | sadly, i don't think nokia has much experience dealing w/ tornados |
| 23:09.19 | m-c | re: closed source software, the important part is the software that enables the NIT hardware functionality remains free and open source |
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| 23:11.00 | m-c | open source and open API applications are awesome and much better than closed apps (like skype), but the software that runs the hardware is the most important software. you can always just replace a closed sourced app. |
| 23:12.17 | summatusmentis | m-c: I agre |
| 23:12.21 | summatusmentis | agree* |
| 23:12.28 | summatusmentis | I'm worried that this is gonna change though |
| 23:12.47 | summatusmentis | all conjecture, obviously |
| 23:12.51 | m-c | as long as you have some GPL code in the wild to run your hardware, you're good for the long-term |
| 23:13.10 | m-c | unless your hardware depends on non-free infrastructure (WiMAX, for example). |
| 23:13.31 | Navi | timely, do you know where I can find the source to the old browser-ui? |
| 23:15.43 | summatusmentis | alright, I'm gonna try and get on the plane again |
| 23:15.55 | m-c | no plane for you! |
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| 23:26.14 | Navi | Anyone know if there are any libfuse2 packages? |
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