IRC log for #maemo on 20080519

00:10.15*** join/#maemo Navi_ (n=Navi@unaffiliated/navi)
00:15.34*** join/#maemo rwhitby (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby)
00:16.22raflwhere to find the config file for the x server?
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01:13.46GeneralAntillesThink we should resolve this as WONTFIX? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2267
01:13.52GeneralAntillesWhat with the mediawiki and all.
01:15.12KotCzarnycode in [code] shouldn't get parsed in any way
01:15.28KotCzarnymaybe except htmlization of some chars
01:15.49KotCzarnyit's the code dammit.
01:15.56KotCzarnydon't touch the code. etc
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02:06.06unixSnobSuppose I know the full path of a deb file that I want to install (http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo3.2/free/binary/curl_7.15.5-1osso1_armel.deb)... how do I add the relevent catalog/repository so apt-get finds the package, along w/ deps?
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02:07.13GeneralAntillesjust wget it?
02:07.23GeneralAntillesthen dpkg -i
02:08.29unixSnobI know that would get it started.. then it would start looking for dependancies, right?  If I can add it to the catalog, then I figure it'll find the deps
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02:36.43unixSnobwell I got lucky.. did't ask for any missing dependancies
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02:39.11rm_youjohnx: you still don't seem to be here.
02:39.16rm_youit's very depressing
02:39.20KotCzarny:)
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02:53.46NaviJaffa, ping
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02:57.54GeneralAntillesWhat are you, kidding?
02:58.00GeneralAntillesIt's 4 in the morning over there. :P
03:00.07unixSnobwhat's version 2.2007.53-3?  Chinook?
03:00.18GeneralAntilles51-3
03:00.23GeneralAntillesis chinook
03:00.30unixSnobthanks
03:00.30infobotgern geschehen, unixSnob
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03:08.44skibur?
03:09.17GeneralAntillesinfobot now responds without a trigger. . . .
03:09.23GeneralAntillesinfobot, go kill yourself.
03:09.34KotCzarnyga: who owns infobot?
03:10.01KotCzarnyand why it's a person which is never here?
03:11.10tank-maninfobot, what's my name!?
03:12.19GeneralAntillesinfobot, you're a useless, heaping, pile of trash.
03:12.19infobotI know you are but what am I?
03:12.33GeneralAntillesA 2nd grader.
03:12.38megabyte405_whoah, it can spit back grade school retorts
03:12.40megabyte405_impressive
03:13.17KotCzarnyit's just stupid to leave a bot running without supervision..
03:13.22KotCzarnyand irritating
03:15.23GeneralAntillesI miss _Monkey
03:15.31GeneralAntillesat least he was personable.
03:16.40rm_youi thought infobot was supposed to be useful
03:16.45rm_youdoesn't he have some sort of...
03:16.50rm_you!infobot debian
03:16.53rm_you!debian
03:16.56rm_youinfobot debian
03:16.57infobothttp://www.debian.org.  See http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/project-history/index.en.html#contents
03:17.07rm_youinfobot ukmp
03:17.08KotCzarnyrm_you: now it's getting retarded
03:17.13KotCzarnyand lagged
03:17.18rm_youhrm
03:17.29rm_youi thought he had some sort of maemo-wiki tie-in
03:31.14unixSnobwould like to grab this cheap battery for backup power => http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=204290527 - but suspects the NIT will overdraw it
03:32.36KotCzarny1A at 5V is ~5W
03:32.48KotCzarnytech specs list: Output - 20 watts = 3 minutes; 16 watt = continuous
03:32.59KotCzarnyso you should be fine
03:33.19KotCzarnyor not
03:33.28KotCzarnythey also list: USB - 5V DC (250mA)
03:33.58KotCzarnyperson that prepared that listing is clueless
03:33.59KotCzarny:)
03:34.25GeneralAntillesSomebody want to try and reproduce this? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2702
03:36.21unixSnobKotCzarny: I suspect the USB port is has some extra electronics that can't take the same output that the AC output can
03:36.41tank-mannasty bug if its reproducable
03:37.01AStormKotCzarny: not exactly clueless
03:37.10unixSnobUSB compliance means <= 500mA
03:37.15AStormnope
03:37.20AStorm100 mA for low power
03:37.25AStorm(no negotiation)
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03:37.58AStormbut then, they draw 300mA @ 9.5V
03:38.20AStorm250 mA could only be a drawback of their DC/DC converter
03:38.29unixSnobMost USB hubs will supply 500mA, and they are still within USB specs
03:38.41KotCzarnystill, that price suggests this battery is old
03:38.41unixSnobthat's 500mA per port
03:38.44AStormunixSnob: 500 mA is actually required by Full USB spec
03:38.52KotCzarnyand they want to clear their warehouse
03:39.10AStormwell, 1200 mAh NiMH is replacable
03:39.18AStormoh wait, it's 9V NiMH?
03:39.23KotCzarnydepends on cells used
03:39.25KotCzarny:)
03:39.25AStormmight be hard to find
03:39.43rm_youi just want to walk around with a backpack full of some sort of battery
03:39.51rm_yoube it a car battery or a bunch of cells
03:39.55AStorm;>
03:40.09AStormI'm building such a device, got almost everything ready
03:40.11KotCzarnyrm_you 12V gel accus are nice
03:40.12KotCzarny:)
03:40.15AStormexcept proper soldering iron
03:40.24AStormKotCzarny: and very expensive
03:40.25rm_youknow anywhere i can buy them like... bulk? :P
03:40.28KotCzarnyastorm: have you done any tests?
03:40.30rm_youlol
03:40.32KotCzarnyastorm: not really
03:40.37AStormKotCzarny: tests like?
03:40.47AStormit's not soldered yet
03:40.55KotCzarnyastorm: what voltages/currents n8x0 needs/accepts
03:40.59AStormah, that
03:41.09AStormcurrent I haven't tested
03:41.17AStormit can take 5,5V in w/o a problem
03:41.29AStormand 4,8V too
03:41.41KotCzarnyhow about 3.6V ?
03:41.42KotCzarny:)
03:42.05AStormNot sure, don't have proper power source to test ;P
03:42.13KotCzarny3xAA ?
03:42.15KotCzarny:P
03:42.23AStorm3x NiMH you mean
03:42.33AStormthe problem is plug, duh
03:42.37KotCzarnynimh come in misc form factors
03:42.50AStormnot some random AA, because that is 1,5V
03:43.02AStorm3x 1,5V is a bit more than 3,6V
03:43.14KotCzarnydepends on usage
03:43.15KotCzarny:)
03:43.25AStormblah blah, drops to at least 1,4V
03:43.59AStormif it's Menelaus controlling power, then it should work even off 2,8V
03:44.19AStormbut it will be wasteful
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03:44.47AStormmaximum current drain is 800-something mA
03:44.47KotCzarnyhmm
03:44.59KotCzarnyi think it can simply shutdown on low power
03:45.23AStormsorry, wrong
03:45.44AStorm800-something is just the power usage of the device
03:45.54AStormcharging eats like to 400 mA
03:46.16AStormso, 1A and up is nice
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03:46.36AStormI wonder why Nokia used this weak power supply then...
03:47.05KotCzarnymaybe it's not that weak
03:47.17AStormthis 800-something mA is only pulled during full usage, with BT, Wifi and both SD cards active
03:47.20GeneralAntillesSomebody want to try and reproduce this? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2757
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03:47.26AStormand full CPU usage
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03:47.56KotCzarnyi would like to scale #8 from retu to actual battery voltage
03:47.56AStormand fully lit screen
03:48.14AStormKotCzarny: grab a cheap multimeter, cost is about 20 PLN
03:48.32KotCzarnyyeah
03:48.34KotCzarnyi have one
03:48.35AStorm(well, calling that a multimeter is overstatement, but it will be accurate enough in this range)
03:48.36rm_youGeneralAntilles: if i knew where my n800 was
03:48.45rm_youit's packed away in one of my suitecases
03:48.48GeneralAntillesFirst it doesn't work, now you've lost it?
03:48.48rm_you<_<
03:48.51AStormthen plug battery through it
03:48.53GeneralAntilleslol
03:48.55rm_youi'm in the process of moving
03:48.57GeneralAntillesI travel with it in my POCKET. :P
03:49.01rm_youi WILL be
03:49.07rm_youbut my flight isnt for a week
03:49.11GeneralAntillesHa
03:49.16rm_youand i have a lot of stuff to carry
03:49.22AStormGeneralAntilles: I guess you have huge pockets
03:49.26rm_youand i'm house-hopping like every other day
03:49.29AStormas N810 barely fits
03:49.32GeneralAntillesNo, I have perfectly normal sized pockets.
03:49.38GeneralAntillesI just don't wear women's pants. :P
03:49.50AStorm*stab*
03:49.55KotCzarnyi carry n800 in my backpack
03:50.07rm_youAStorm: normally, i carry my n800, travel keyboard, gps, cell phone, wallet, keys, headphones and usb SD reader
03:50.10rm_youall in my pockets
03:50.20KotCzarnywhy do you need sd reader
03:50.23KotCzarnyyou have n800
03:50.23AStormwell, the trick is I only have two of these
03:50.24KotCzarny:)
03:50.29GeneralAntillesrm_you frequently looks like he has leg tumors.
03:50.32AStormKotCzarny: full-size SD
03:50.41rm_youso i can pull the card out of my n800 wherever i am and put stuff on it / pull stuff off it
03:50.57unixSnobGeneralAntilles: I can't reproduce.. kuz my control panel doesn't have an option to create a swap file
03:50.58AStormso, USB reader is handy (not sure if it can run on 100 mA N810 provides on USB port)
03:51.03KotCzarnyastorm: yes, adapters are tiny
03:51.04KotCzarny:)
03:51.29rm_youwell, i have n800, so the usb SD reader is so other computers can read my SD card
03:51.31GeneralAntillesunixSnob, Control Panel: Menu: Virtual -> Check the box.
03:51.31KotCzarnyastorm: and you can simply put adapter inside n800
03:51.34AStormKotCzarny: down size?
03:51.35rm_youbrb
03:51.42AStormwhere do I get such an adapter?
03:52.02KotCzarnyastorm: allegro ?
03:52.03GeneralAntilles7th dimension, AStorm.
03:52.04KotCzarny:)
03:52.05AStormrm_you: somebody doesn't have a laptop?
03:52.07GeneralAntillesFrom Marry Poppins.
03:52.15AStormGeneralAntilles: that was weak ;P
03:52.28GeneralAntillesMinus extra r
03:52.28KotCzarnyastorm: he has n800
03:52.30KotCzarnynot n810
03:52.33AStormrm_you: and, use USB cable
03:52.38AStormah, I lose
03:52.39rm_youAStorm: i'm on my laptop right now :P
03:52.53GeneralAntillesLaptops suck.
03:52.55AStormI need a down-size SD to miniSD
03:52.58AStorm;P
03:52.59rm_youand it has an SD reader in it
03:53.05AStormmay stick out of the port
03:53.10rm_youbut i'm talking about for random other machines
03:53.15rm_youlike any of the machines at school
03:53.23AStormrm_you: N800 has a reader too, so... use the USB cable
03:53.23KotCzarnyrm_you, n800 can act as a usb reader
03:53.24KotCzarny:)
03:53.32KotCzarny*an
03:53.38unixSnobGeneralAntilles: control panel does not have a "virtual" option in the menu
03:53.51rm_youyeah <_< but it does weird things when i plug it in
03:53.55GeneralAntillesAre you following my steps? No.
03:53.57rm_youcause it takes away the drives
03:54.03GeneralAntillesControl Panel, open the Memory item
03:54.05GeneralAntillestap the Virtual tap
03:54.09AStormrm_you: yes, it does
03:54.10GeneralAntilless/tap/tab/2
03:54.14rm_youi generally only want it to take one
03:54.30rm_yousince i'm usually running things off one of them :P
03:54.32AStormthen use the other
03:54.34AStorm:>
03:54.43rm_youright
03:54.49GeneralAntillesYou should get one of jolouis's adaptors and take a flash drive with you.
03:54.51rm_youbut if i plug the n800 in to usb it automatically steals both
03:54.55rm_you<_<
03:55.11GeneralAntillesLess bulk than an sd reader.
03:55.15AStormGeneralAntilles: uhm, which pendrive works on 100mA?
03:55.24unixSnobGeneralAntilles: found it.. you didn't say 'memory' the first time.  It's creating it.. and it's rather slow
03:55.30AStorm(most new larger ones don't)
03:56.11GeneralAntillesMy SanDisk Cruzer Titanium 2GB
03:56.15AStormanyway, a tiny battery-powered hub would be great
03:56.23AStormGeneralAntilles: ah, that's not huge
03:56.27AStormbut big enough :-)
03:56.33unixSnobdamn that's slow.. probably 60-80 secs to create a 16MB swap file
03:56.45GeneralAntillesIt's creating a loopback image.
03:56.55KotCzarnyga: not true
03:57.05GeneralAntillesSeems faster in Diablo, anyway.
03:57.08KotCzarnyswapfile isn't mounted via loopback
03:57.20AStormexactly
03:57.31AStormswapfile is mounted directly via swap driver
03:57.42AStorm(AKA cachefs?)
03:57.56KotCzarnybut swapfile on vfat sucks
03:57.58KotCzarny:)
03:58.06AStormnah, why?
03:58.15AStormif it's contiguous, it doesn't matter which FS it's on
03:58.24KotCzarnybecause vfat and mmc drivers are not a best fit
03:58.37KotCzarnysomeone mentioned that vfat is quirky with mmc
03:58.38AStormext and mmc drivers aren't either
03:59.00AStormyes, vfat and ext both hit the first few writeblocks hard
03:59.20AStormreiser would be better (talking stable FSes)
03:59.37AStormalthough journalling, meh, not that good too
03:59.42KotCzarnyastorm: doesn't matter with wear levelling
03:59.48AStormdoes matter
03:59.52KotCzarnynot that much
03:59.53AStormit limits performance
04:00.03AStormif you make a write, you have to rewrite the whole block
04:00.09KotCzarnyyes, i know
04:00.28AStormthus, you get at least two blocks (allocation tables)
04:01.09AStormB-tree FSes are more spread out
04:01.22AStormand usually tree is closer to files
04:01.52AStormalthough you'd need copy-on-write to be fully efficient (or a spread-out journal)
04:01.53KotCzarnydoesn't matter with flash
04:01.59AStormdoes matter
04:02.03KotCzarnynot that much
04:02.04AStormnumber of writeblocks
04:02.12AStormesp. with slower flash
04:02.20KotCzarnybut no seek hit
04:02.21AStormand the writeblocks are becoming larger
04:02.31AStormno seek, but lowers transfer a lot
04:02.36AStormhalves actually
04:02.43AStorm(or worse)
04:02.50KotCzarnybut reads are fast
04:02.51KotCzarny:)
04:02.55AStormyes
04:03.08AStormanyway, we need an FS optimized for flash disks
04:03.21AStorm(i.e. btrfs)
04:03.27KotCzarnyyou can always try having journal on another card
04:03.28KotCzarny;)
04:03.30unixSnobGeneralAntilles: I could not repeat the issue on an n800.  No trash left behind on either mmc chip
04:03.42GeneralAntillesExcellent, thanks unixSnob.
04:04.02AStormKotCzarny: that won't help
04:04.09AStormthe problem is wear then ;)
04:04.21KotCzarnyastorm: nope, it will help
04:04.23AStormif it were that easy, you could just use RAID0
04:04.49KotCzarnyremember that you write to journal too on most write operations
04:04.51AStormthe trick is placing all writes close together
04:05.05AStormyou don't care too much about fragmentation on flash drives
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04:05.22KotCzarnyastorm: or cloning whole blocks?
04:05.27AStormtoo slow
04:06.13AStormthink 400 * 1MB blocks
04:06.44AStormadd a write to the first block every few, you'll see how it impacts performance
04:07.00KotCzarnybigger caches would be nice
04:07.01AStormthe best case is only one write to the allocation table
04:07.04KotCzarnyif we had the mem
04:07.05KotCzarny;)
04:07.34KotCzarnybtw. is write caching on for mmc on maemo?
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04:07.45AStormI guess not.
04:07.50AStormcheck dmesg
04:08.05KotCzarnywhat should i look for?
04:08.52AStormfor write-through and write-back
04:09.20AStormomg, JSP *sucks*
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04:10.02AStormbonus points for having to set up some Tomcat server
04:10.04AStormargh!
04:10.26KotCzarny:)
04:11.44AStormalso, I don't seem to have javax.servlet... or NetBeans (suck) isn't reading that
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04:12.30blahdeblah-lapHi.  Is the package osso-software-version important?  To upgrade my packages, it says i must remove this.  Running an N800 on OS2008.
04:12.43AStormNo, I do, suck isn't reading it.
04:12.50AStormblahdeblah-lap: you can hack around it
04:12.58blahdeblah-lapAStorm: how?
04:13.04AStormit is just the control panel applet though
04:13.29blahdeblah-lapwhat do you mean?
04:13.30AStormblahdeblah-lap: in /var/cache/apt/something...
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04:28.33*** topic/#maemo is development platform for Nokia Internet Tablets | http://maemo.org/news/events/maemo_irc_meeting-001/ | http://freedesktop.org/Software/sbox2/Maemo | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | http://www.gronmayer.com/it | http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook
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04:48.14Italodanceguys
04:48.16ItalodanceThe N900 will come with support for Quad-band GSM, HSDPA, WiMAX, Wi-Fi and Bluetooth.
04:48.23Italodanceis it really true?
04:48.25Italodance:'''(
04:48.27johnxno
04:48.33Italodancei wish my n800
04:48.37GeneralAntillesHa
04:48.39Italodancehi johnx
04:48.39GeneralAntillesHi, johnx.
04:48.48johnxhi all
04:48.55ItalodanceN900 can insert a simcard?
04:49.08KotCzarnycan i has n900 ?
04:49.20Italodancehttp://mivadika.com/forum/communications/1562-10-things-about-nokia-s-iphone.html
04:49.27GeneralAntillesItalodance, nobody but Nokia knows a damn thing about the N900.
04:49.31GeneralAntillesThat's a fake article.
04:49.36GeneralAntillesIt's not based on any really information
04:49.41GeneralAntillesIt's what the stupid author wants.
04:49.43KotCzarny'real'
04:49.45ItalodanceREAD: For sure it will offer Quad-band GSM at 850/900/1800/1900Mhz and the European 2100Mhz for 3G HSDPA, however we hope for support of all 3G and GSM bands in a single device, more specifically we hope for support of Quad-Band GSM along with Quad-Band 3G HSDPA offering support for 850/1700/1900/2100Mhz. (2100Mhz is for Europe and most of the world, 850/1900Mhz is AT&T's bands in the USA and 1700Mhz is the upcoming 3G band for T-Mobile USA)
04:49.46ItalodanceThe phone will also offer Wi-Fi (probably 802.11b/g) Bluetooth and GPS.
04:49.46ItalodanceFor the WiMax we beleive is too soon but if they offer it is great addition and more than welcome!
04:49.57GeneralAntillesIt's fake.
04:50.02Italodanceoh
04:50.29Stskeepsi would be scared how much battery such a n8x0 would take
04:50.29Stskeeps:P
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04:56.24Italodanceummm http://www.infosyncworld.com/reviews/internet-tablets/samsung-q1-ultra/
04:57.17johnxthat's been out for a long time
04:57.43Italodancejohnx when?
04:57.58GeneralAntillesHrm, how do I make a bugzilla search for showing all bugs with new comments from the last 2 days? The "Bug Changes" field doesn't seem to have a Comments item.
04:58.59johnxItalodance, May 2007
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05:05.40Navikaboom!
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05:06.22GeneralAntillesYou cleaning your toilet, Navi?
05:06.29NaviNo
05:09.36GeneralAntillesYes you are.
05:09.37GeneralAntillesDon't lie.
05:17.43timelyGeneralAntilles: do you really need commentS?
05:17.52GeneralAntillesOf course.
05:17.57GeneralAntillesI want to read bugzilla like a forum. :P
05:17.58timelyif you select nothing you'll get all bugs changed in the last 2 days
05:18.07GeneralAntillesAh, really? Cool.
05:18.33timelydon't forget to stick the '2' in the other field of course...
05:19.10GeneralAntillesBeautiful
05:19.10GeneralAntillesThanks
05:19.49timelybtw, have you ever clicked the help link?
05:20.30GeneralAntillesOn the front page?
05:20.44GeneralAntillesThis? https://bugs.maemo.org/page.cgi?id=quicksearch.html
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05:23.47timelyhttps://bugs.maemo.org/query.cgi?help=1
05:24.15timelynot sure where the help link is, but i trust it's somewhere...
05:24.47GeneralAntillesThe "Give me some help (reloads page.)" at the top here: https://bugs.maemo.org/query.cgi
05:27.11timelyyeah...
05:27.24timelythat requires js which i typically disable :)
05:27.37KotCzarnyhmm
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05:27.42KotCzarnystupid
05:27.46KotCzarnyovercomplication
05:27.46GeneralAntillesSomebody ought to get rid of that period. . . .
05:28.07timelyhrm, it is misplaced, oh well
05:28.20KotCzarnysomebody should learn about target=_blank
05:28.30KotCzarnyand drop js
05:32.15Navitargets don't conform to xhtml 1.1 strict and later
05:32.55KotCzarnybroken js is worse than nonconformance to xhtml strict
05:33.55Navibroken anything is bad
05:34.25timelyKotCzarny: where would you use _blank?
05:34.47Naviwithin the <a> tag
05:34.56timelywhose a tag, and why?
05:35.21KotCzarnydarn, my connection is dying
05:35.41Navigood
05:35.53Navitimely, http://www.htmlcodetutorial.com/linking/_A_TARGET_95y98y108y97y110y107y.html
05:36.03timelyNavi: i know html
05:36.11NaviNo you don't
05:36.12timelyi just don't understand who wants to actually use that feature
05:36.25NaviYeah, that link shows you :P
05:36.34KotCzarnytimely: why is there js for a help link used?
05:36.49timely?
05:36.57NaviYou don't know html, you only do work on a layout engine, after all
05:37.11timelythe help version requires data that isn't sent w/ the normal version of the page
05:37.33timelyit could be rewritten to dynamically retrieve all that data, but it'd be moderately painful
05:37.37NaviMeh, it's better you don't know how to use target="_blank" anyways :P
05:37.43KotCzarnywhere is that help link anyway?
05:37.43timely:)
05:38.01timelyhttps://bugs.maemo.org/query.cgi?format=advanced
05:38.09timelynear the top (if you have js enabled) i guess
05:38.12KotCzarnyon the page
05:38.23timelyuse find?
05:38.25KotCzarnyi have js enabled, but i don't see anything
05:38.32NaviOh
05:38.41NaviI didn't read your sentence correctly
05:38.48KotCzarny(that looks like a help button)
05:39.07NaviMorons love target="_blank"
05:39.21NaviIt's easier than setting up something proper
05:39.45sxperttarget is pretty useless
05:40.00sxpert(as most frames are)
05:40.22timelyshrugs
05:40.37KotCzarnyok, at what page i should look for that help link?
05:40.38KotCzarny:)
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05:41.43KotCzarnyok, found it
05:42.18Navisxpert, every beginning html writer knows that frames are awesome
05:42.26sxperthahaha
05:43.09KotCzarnyok, now what is the use of:
05:43.10KotCzarny<PROTECTED>
05:43.10KotCzarny<PROTECTED>
05:43.10KotCzarny<PROTECTED>
05:43.11KotCzarny:)
05:44.22KotCzarnyover plain html, that is
05:44.23KotCzarny:)
05:45.46sxperthow about creating a hidden class and changing the "visiblility"
05:46.19KotCzarnybut it doesn't do anything other than printing some string
05:46.29KotCzarnyno ifs, no nothing
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05:53.42timelythe page doesn't work w/o js enabled
05:53.55timelyso providing a link to a page that won't work is stupid
05:53.59KotCzarnyok, that can be a reason
05:53.59timelyhence you protect it
05:54.15timely"click me, reloads page, results in broken page"
05:54.20timelyyeah. that's a good idea.
05:54.37KotCzarnybut wouldn't it be wiser to use <divs> hidden by js ?
05:54.46timelyno
05:54.55timelynoscript and friends would show them
05:54.56KotCzarnythat would help for people without js
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05:55.06timelyoh...
05:55.06KotCzarnyand that's the point
05:55.07KotCzarny:)
05:55.10timelyyou mean on the other page
05:55.13timelywelli'm late
05:55.23timelyyou're free to try to redesign the advanced page
05:55.25timelygood luck.
05:55.31KotCzarny:)
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05:55.58KotCzarnyuser can modify it?
05:56.38timelyjust start by rewriting the html you get
05:56.47timelythen i'll show you how to get the tmpl that generates it
05:56.52timelyleaves
05:56.55KotCzarnyhmm
05:57.04KotCzarnyi will do it if i don't forget about it :)
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06:00.43KotCzarnyofftopic: http://www.partshelf.com/lacrbc900.html
06:00.46KotCzarnynice charger
06:00.46KotCzarny:)
06:02.12kulvehttp://www.arm.com/products/esd/openmax_home.html
06:02.27kulveI wonder how powerful those codecs are..
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06:13.18myschi all. anyone know of a place that sells microA <--> female A dongle?
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06:42.55tank-manmysc, if thats what i think it is, circut city/the source has it
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07:08.18mysctank, it's a usb dongle. microA to female A
07:08.45johnxmysc, there was some thread on internettablettalk.com/forums about it I thought...
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07:10.32myscyeah, i've looked. the best i've found is micro A to male A (so you need a gender changer)
07:10.57myscthere's also micro B to female A (which i don't quite understand)
07:11.23johnxfor the n800
07:11.40myscthe n800 is mini, i thought
07:11.48johnxah, sorry
07:11.49johnxmy mistake
07:11.57johnxmicro b would work for you too
07:12.03johnxbut you'd have to change to host mode in software
07:12.10myscid have to change sw though
07:12.21myscyeh
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07:16.12myscthere is a micro A to female A but it's a company in HK and you have to buy 1000 :)
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07:39.18RahimTuxhi
07:41.37RahimTuxIs there a deb/deb-src repository available for the contents of garage.maemo.org?
07:42.05kulveno
07:43.01RahimTuxMight it be possible to setup one?
07:43.17RahimTuxIt would make things easier.
07:43.34johnxyou'd have to get everyone who submits a project there to also submit a buildable src debian package
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07:45.24RahimTuxA build-system could generate a repository for all projects which support it.
07:47.48RahimTuxHaving a part of the projects available as deb repository is IMHO better than nothing. Just my 2¢...
07:48.16johnxI think the direction things are going is to have a deb-src repository for extras and extras-devel
07:48.23kulvethe extras repo is similar to what your want
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07:54.39RahimTuxWhat is necessary to add a garage project to the extra repository? Are the garage project maintainers responsible to do that or one of the maemo.org operators?
07:55.14kulvethe package maintainer
07:55.25johnxgarage users have to submit the project to maemo.org maintainers *I think*
07:57.00RahimTuxThanks.
07:57.42Naviyawns
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08:26.01Navijohnx, any progress on getting hildon apps working in debian?
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08:45.02RST38hHeh, got complaints of dpad center acting as START
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09:01.57hendrythe maemo wiki sucks
09:02.11hendryspending ages trying to get sshd working after flashing chinook on
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09:02.24KotCzarnylol
09:02.35KotCzarnymaybe that's because problems is of pebcak type?
09:02.36KotCzarny:)
09:02.48KotCzarny*problem
09:03.27lardmanhendry: just install it using red pill mode and it should work....
09:03.29lardman?
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09:05.20acydlordso, anyone alive at the moment that has an up to date /etc/apt/sources.list with most or all of the repos that they could pastebin?
09:07.34hendrylardman: that's so UN obvious
09:07.58lardmanis that what you did?
09:08.25lardmanif not, add a note to the top of the wiki page
09:09.17acydlordnevermind, i'll just backup my sources.list before i reflash
09:09.31lardmanacydlord: sorry, don't have N8x0 on me at,
09:09.33lardmanatm
09:09.38acydlordthats alright
09:10.08acydlordi forgot my sources list is about 2 months old, just need to fix up a few problematic repos and i should be fine
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09:14.23hendryyay found http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/openssh/ after searching
09:14.31hendrynow I need to figure out how to get root
09:15.32Knirchafter installing it it will prompt you to set a password for root
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09:15.43Knirchthen it's as easy as ssh root@localhost
09:16.16KotCzarnyssh root@0 should work too
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09:23.20Jonhendry: out of curiosity, what version is that openssh package, is it derived from the debian one, does openssl get pulled in with it or is there an openssl already deployed in os2008, does it inherit the ssl bug?
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09:30.34lardmanX-Fade: do you have a LinuxTag ticket yet?
09:30.42lardmanX-Fade: I've been sent 10 to distribute
09:32.06trickielardman: do you know if you can buy them at event? or do you *have* to preorder?
09:32.12JaffaNavi: pong
09:32.16JaffaMorning, all
09:32.23KotCzarnymourning
09:32.24trickiemorning
09:32.29lardmantrickie: you can get them at the event, just costs a bit more
09:32.43trickielardman: k, ta
09:45.39hendryJon: i will check with the debian black list shortly
09:45.42lardmantrickie: are you coming for sure?
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09:48.24trickielardman: yes im booked to fly there etc
09:48.28trickieim only for the thurday and friday
09:48.40RST38hKot: Any ideas what may grow process' VSZ to 100+MB?
09:48.52KotCzarnymemleaks?
09:49.11KotCzarnybad memory management?
09:49.26KotCzarnyhoarding mallocs?
09:49.26RST38hNo, it is not memory leaks, it does not grow
09:49.32RST38hAnd Load applet shows 13MB onlyt
09:49.47RST38hLooks like some link dependencies
09:50.05lardmantrickie: send me an email, I have a few tickets
09:50.11lardmanlikewise anyone else
09:50.26lardmanI may not reply today though as I have to sit on a train for 6hrs
09:50.50KotCzarnyvirtual memory usage of entire process. vm_lib + vm_exe + vm_data + vm_stack
09:51.01KotCzarnythat's vsz
09:51.38KotCzarnyit's not necesarily malloced then
09:51.41kulveRST38h: http://maemo.org/development/tools/doc/chinook/sp-endurance/
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09:52.00KotCzarnyjust some kind of we could use that much, but doesn't matter we will
09:53.18trickielardman: sure, sounds good
09:54.01KotCzarnyrst, i may be wrong though
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09:54.44lardmantrickie: Loeve, is that an umlaut?
09:54.59RST38hkulve: it's not a leak
09:55.25RST38hkulve: does not grow, just stays that way, like if I linked to 100MB of libraries
09:55.26trickielardman: i think it may have originally, but since my family moved out to australia they haven't used one
09:55.42lardmantrickie: long trip to Germany then!
09:55.45kulveRST38h: but I guess that provides some info which could show what is using what
09:55.55KotCzarnyrst ldd ? :)
09:55.56RST38hpossible...
09:55.57trickietrickie: nah, i live in Amsterdam ATM
09:56.00trickiepff
09:56.01lardman:)
09:56.03RST38hKot: is there ldd for N810? =)
09:56.05lardmantrickie: done
09:56.05RST38hI have not found it
09:56.10lardmanI'm off, see you chaps on Friday
09:56.10trickielardman: cheers!
09:56.12KotCzarnyrst: there is one in sb
09:56.12KotCzarny:)
09:56.23RST38hI am at work and my sb is at home =)
09:56.45KotCzarnyyou put your servers to sleep when you leave home?
09:56.47KotCzarnyO.o
09:57.02RST38hI do not run servers at home =)
09:57.13KotCzarnyok, home-servers
09:57.13KotCzarny;)
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09:58.16hendryJon: Not blacklisted
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10:11.33RST38hKot: hey, maybe you can download ines-maemo and fmsx-maemo and run ndd on both executables?
10:12.06RST38hwonders what the hell got linked since fmsx to make a difference in cvsz
10:12.22KotCzarnylink?
10:12.36RST38hfms.komkon.org/iNES, fms.komkon.org/fMSX/
10:13.48KotCzarnyi hope they don't need crazy deps
10:13.48KotCzarny:)
10:15.54KotCzarnyhmm
10:15.58KotCzarnyquite a lot libs
10:15.58KotCzarnyhehe
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10:18.05pupnikRST38h: do you make your own text / menu system, or use some library for those emus?
10:18.26KotCzarnyrst: http://pastebin.com/m4774f853
10:19.16KotCzarnywhole x/gtk/hildon/pango
10:19.19hrwmorning
10:19.35pupnikRST38h: if you want me to demo it, please let me know - privmsg any info you want to share
10:19.39KotCzarnyand cairo too
10:19.40KotCzarny:)
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10:26.06trickiehrw: morning
10:29.26hrwhi trickie
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10:44.55lopzmorning
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10:47.35dnearyhi
10:47.35infobothi, dneary
10:48.06dnearyany bugzilla wizards here know how to query bugzilla for "all the bugs where the assignee is me, or someone I'm watching"?
10:48.17dnearyinfobot: Hellp
10:48.25dnearyinfobot: Hello, even
10:49.55hrwhi dneary
10:50.17hrwdneary: is there a way to get login/pass to mediawiki on maemo.org?
10:51.34dnearyhi hrw
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10:51.50dnearyYou click on "Login", and then "Register", I think
10:52.15hrwthere was no login last time
10:52.22hrwno register at login page I mean
10:53.00hrwand still only 'Log in' button present
10:53.27dnearyOr click "Create account" directly
10:53.36dnearyThat's the one :)
10:53.44dnearyNeeded to look at the site to refresh memory
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10:56.30hrwI will make a shot
10:57.10RST38hback
10:57.13RST38hKot: Thanks!
10:57.25KotCzarny:)
10:57.40RST38hpupnik: I have my own tiny UI/gfx library, just for small applications when you do not want to use gtk/etc
10:57.55hrwdneary: http://blog.haerwu.biz/tmp/desktop12.png
10:58.04RST38hpupnik: The name is EMULib. If you want the source code, get ColEm sources (http://fms.komkon.org/ColEm)
10:58.16dnearyAh - for MediaWiki
10:58.22dnearyYou need to ask me :)
10:58.27KotCzarnylol
10:58.35KotCzarnyisn't that what he did?
10:58.37KotCzarny:)
10:58.59dnearyhrw: What username?
10:59.05dnearyAnd what's the real name?
11:00.04hrwdneary: MarcinHrwJuszkiewicz, Marcin Juszkiewicz
11:00.21RST38hKot: the only difference is gconf changing place...hmmm
11:00.31RST38hso it must be something I do in the code then...
11:01.23RST38hpupnik: btw, ColEm also eats 100+MB of virtual memory, so if you feel like finding out why, please do =)
11:01.40KotCzarnyrst, maybe it's just a shared libs
11:02.00KotCzarnytry running 2 instances at once?
11:02.14KotCzarnyif you don't run out of mem then it's something shared ;)
11:02.30dnearyhrw: Is that the same username you have for garage?
11:02.54hrwdneary: so I can use garage login there? will have to test then
11:03.06dnearyhrw: I need to add the account first
11:03.13hrwdneary: ok - logged on garage name 'hrw'
11:03.18hrwYou are now logged in to maemo wiki as "hrw".
11:03.21dnearybut once I've done that, you're good to go
11:03.36pupnikRST38h: thanks.  i'll mention it.  Have you tried iNES on Nokia 770 yet?
11:05.14dnearyOK, you're good to log in
11:05.30dnearyDo you want me to add you to the wikiadmin group
11:07.03RST38hKot: Well, you have just run ldd - and it is identical for fmsx and ines
11:07.07RST38hfmsx does not eat 100MB
11:07.18RST38hpupnik: I have no N770
11:08.17RST38hpupnik: Where do you want to demo/mention it anyway?
11:08.27dnearyhrw: You're good to go.
11:09.09RST38hAudit Scotland's second major comparison of public sector databases has identified 36 per cent less fraud than its first attempt!
11:11.15pupnikRST38h: linuxtag, berlin
11:11.55KotCzarny2008
11:11.55KotCzarny;)
11:12.37KotCzarnypupnik: did you know that lhc will start in mid june ?
11:12.42hrwdneary: wikiadmin? no - normal user for now
11:12.49KotCzarnyso it may be your first and last linuxtag ;)
11:13.42dnearyhrw: Too late ;)
11:14.07pupnikwhat is lhc?
11:14.16KotCzarnylarge hadron collider
11:14.19KotCzarnycern
11:14.21KotCzarnyetc.
11:14.22KotCzarny:)
11:14.30glassend of the world!
11:14.32glass:)
11:14.34pupnikoh yeah the end of the world
11:14.34KotCzarnywell
11:14.40KotCzarnyend of earth
11:14.48KotCzarnyworld will continue to exist
11:14.49KotCzarny:)
11:15.12pupnikhey lets place a bet, if the world ends, i owe you 10 euro
11:15.34KotCzarnypupnik, can i have it before?
11:15.35KotCzarny:)
11:16.09pupnikwe'll probably have time for a quick 'lol' in irc
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11:17.39KotCzarnybut if we are unlucky nothing catastrophic will happen
11:18.23RST38hpupnik: ah
11:18.37RST38hCthulhu will wake up and rise
11:19.17KotCzarnywell
11:21.52RST38hREMEMBER: Cthulhu is sleeping for our sins.
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11:22.15KotCzarnys/for/in/
11:22.27RST38hfor!
11:22.38KotCzarnychicken
11:23.26RST38hIn case you have not seen it: http://www.macguff.fr/goomi/unspeakable/vault261.html
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11:24.48KotCzarnyhmm
11:24.51*** join/#maemo iomari (n=chatzill@41.223.64.58)
11:25.01KotCzarny:)
11:26.21RST38hEspecially this one: http://www.macguff.fr/goomi/unspeakable/vault255.html
11:26.21KotCzarnyhttp://poteflon.pl/16927
11:26.23KotCzarnylol
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11:29.33acydlordhttp://xkcd.com/424/
11:30.09KotCzarny'who wanna be a millionaire' http://fun.noshit.pl/DIR-2008.05.19/fnp12.jpg
11:30.09KotCzarny;)
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11:32.20RST38hwill pass
11:35.35GeneralAntillesdneary, how's the wiki reorg going?
11:44.53GeneralAntillespupnik, if that HD cam works out, thing you could use it to film some presentations? :D
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11:50.31pupnikDepends on when it arrives.  I might have to return it.  Otherwise sure.
11:51.19GeneralAntillesJudging by the sample videos, I suspect that might be something it'd be good for. ;)
11:51.51pupnikYes they did seem not so bad.  Bad compression artefacts when panning and shaking though.
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11:58.45dnearyGeneralAntilles: Still getting organised, really
11:58.59KotCzarny'organized' ?
11:59.42GeneralAntillesdneary, I don't really have the desire to invest time in the reorg, but I'm fairly familiar with mediawiki, so I hope I can help once things get moving on that end.
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12:06.35trickiedneary: i can help with the migration (im familiar with media wiki), i don't have heaps of time, but can certainly put an hour or two in here and there
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12:07.36dnearytrickie: Great!
12:08.12dnearyKotCzarny: No, organised
12:08.24KotCzarny<PROTECTED>
12:08.25KotCzarnyhmm
12:08.29KotCzarnyare you british?
12:08.30KotCzarny:)
12:08.35dnearyKotCzarny: Irish :)
12:08.40KotCzarnyahm
12:08.41KotCzarny:)
12:08.55trickiedneary: im following maemo2midgard-discussion so if i see a task that i can help out on ill get in the mix
12:09.16dnearyKotCzarny: Organised = deciding what to migrate, identify any tools which might help with the migration
12:09.23dnearytrickie: Rocks!
12:09.36trickieKotCzarny: organised was the original spelling
12:09.44KotCzarnydneary: i know the meaning of the word
12:09.47trickieamericans saw fit to need to change it
12:10.06KotCzarnytrickle: british grammar isn't consistent
12:10.11dnearyKotCzarny: I assumed you were asking what needed organising, rather than questioning my spelling :)
12:10.17trickiewe use 'organised' in .au also
12:10.28KotCzarnyit's just that some person in history decided that or this
12:10.30KotCzarny:)
12:10.31dnearyKotCzarny: American usage of English is illogical
12:10.43trickieKotCzarny: doesn't matter its where the english language came from
12:10.51dneary"british" grammar is actually "English" grammar
12:11.03KotCzarnyus english is getting dominant
12:11.05KotCzarny:)
12:11.11KotCzarnybecause of the internet :)
12:11.41GeneralAntillesWoo, go Noah Webster!
12:11.44timelesstrickie: err...
12:11.49timelessdon't go near spelling
12:12.58trickie:)
12:14.08timelessdneary: so, did you finish mapping the world?
12:14.28dnearytimeless: It's taken a back seat to the wiki migration for the next week or so
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12:15.55timelesswiki migration? :)
12:18.45RST38hKot: Aluminum forevah!
12:19.29KotCzarny<PROTECTED>
12:19.29KotCzarny<PROTECTED>
12:19.30KotCzarny;)
12:19.41GeneralAntillesI'm rather excited about the mediawiki move. I think it'll finally give us a GOOD central wiki for NIT/maemo stuff. Especially as the itT wiki is mostly just a horrifying abortion.
12:19.53RST38hFreaked me out when I found out - always though it was "aluminium" for everybody
12:20.16KotCzarnyin .pl it's aluminium too :)
12:20.28KotCzarnyand 'glin' if it's a name of element
12:20.29RST38hShould we add "nucular" to US English vocabulary?
12:20.39KotCzarnyrst: nucular?
12:20.42RST38hKot: aluminium in Russian as well
12:20.45KotCzarnydubia's dict?
12:20.45KotCzarny:)
12:20.59RST38hKot: But the ore is known as kaolin
12:21.16KotCzarnyore != pure element?
12:21.19RST38hAnd yes, it does look like glina (which is Russian for "mud")
12:21.31RST38hNo, pure element is Aluminium
12:21.39KotCzarnychecks
12:21.57RST38hKot: YouPoles probably call it "glin" because it does come from mud
12:23.28KotCzarnyhmm
12:23.39KotCzarnyno name origin in wikipedia
12:26.38RST38hBtw, the industrial aluminium extraction process is as close as you can get to hell
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12:27.15KotCzarnyyeah, alu cans fun
12:27.22KotCzarnyand no
12:27.49KotCzarnyblack holes are worse
12:27.49KotCzarny;)
12:27.55RST38hyou have better chance of visiting hell by hanging yourself =)
12:28.05KotCzarnywell
12:28.27KotCzarnyif human soul is really immortal
12:28.40KotCzarnythen i will visit at least black hole some day
12:28.41KotCzarny;)
12:28.51patohwould love to see what is in a black hole
12:29.05patohand somehow report back to prove at least one group wrong :P
12:29.19patohthan again no one would belive you
12:29.46RST38hKot: does it bother you that you may visit that blackhole reborn as an ornate horned toad? =)
12:30.17KotCzarnynot at all
12:30.26KotCzarnyas i don't believe in reincarnation ;)
12:30.36KotCzarnyhttp://webwereld.nl/articles/51099/nasa-moves-to-save-computers-from-swarming-ants.html
12:30.38KotCzarnylol
12:30.39RST38hyeh =)
12:30.49KotCzarnybe afraid, be very afraid ;)
12:31.15RST38hKit: It has started!
12:31.29KotCzarnyyeah, they trying to stop us
12:31.34RST38hLHC is still dormant but IT has started!
12:31.35KotCzarnybut they are too late
12:31.36KotCzarny;)
12:31.49KotCzarnyrst: how do you know it's dormant
12:31.51RST38hTHE END OF THE WORLD IS COMING
12:32.03KotCzarny'cumming' ?
12:32.04KotCzarny:)
12:32.11RST38hKot: true (on how do I know)
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12:33.54KotCzarny<PROTECTED>
12:34.01KotCzarnymm
12:34.08KotCzarny4k ants in a pc
12:34.14RST38h4096
12:34.44KotCzarnyi would freak out on 1 in my pc
12:34.45KotCzarny:)
12:35.32RST38hseen mice and mosquitoes in a PC
12:35.37RST38hmice actually had a nest with babies
12:35.39trickiei had a laptop that had coffee spilt on it, ants got in and completly stuffed it
12:35.49KotCzarnywell, 1mice != 4k ants
12:36.12RST38hKot: nutrition wise, it may well be ==
12:36.12KotCzarnys/mice/mouse
12:36.22KotCzarnyrst: horror wise ants rule
12:36.23KotCzarny:)
12:36.45*** join/#maemo Dar (n=Dar_K@nat/sun/x-506579c5110d22ab)
12:39.02RST38htrickie: yes, but did they arch?!?
12:39.23RST38h'cause one of those mice arched! =)
12:39.28*** join/#maemo birunko (n=birunko@200.184.118.132)
12:39.37*** join/#maemo thopiekar (n=thopieka@p57A16026.dip.t-dialin.net)
12:39.49RST38h(and then smelled for a few weeks, until somebody figured out where smell came from)
12:39.58KotCzarny:>
12:40.07KotCzarnyfew weeks?
12:40.10trickieRST38h: :)
12:40.13KotCzarnythose geeks
12:40.20KotCzarnyresistant to nature
12:40.21KotCzarny;)
12:41.22KotCzarnyPart of the problem is that exterminators have found it nearly impossible to kill the ants. Oh, you can kill some of them - the first wave, maybe. However, there are so many more ants coming behind them, that the first wave falls dead in the insecticide and the subsequent waves merely walk on the dead bodies, keeping themselves out of the poison and safe from harm.
12:41.41KotCzarny'huston, you have a problem'
12:41.42KotCzarny;)
12:41.47RST38hSend the marines!
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12:43.12KotCzarnyhmm, *houston
12:43.41*** join/#maemo booiiing__ (n=[booiiin@e180037191.adsl.alicedsl.de)
12:44.49KotCzarnyP.S. look at the bright side they are not flesh eating ants or bees
12:44.50KotCzarnylol
12:45.05RST38hit is the bright side?!?
12:45.58KotCzarnyin your pc, would you like 4k ants not interested in human meat or 4k bees ?
12:45.59KotCzarny:)
12:46.12RST38hIn my PC, I would prefer to have no ants at all
12:46.13*** join/#maemo Vudentz (n=luiz@200.184.118.132)
12:46.38*** join/#maemo thopiekar (n=thopieka@p57A16026.dip.t-dialin.net)
12:46.43RST38hBut in an average PC in Houston, TX I would like flesh eating, fire breathing, penis burrowing ants
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12:47.41RST38hAnything that will reduce the population of that place
12:47.48KotCzarnyi wonder why no one attributed it to a fidel
12:47.50GeneralAntilles<_<
12:48.04KotCzarnyor to a god's revenge for dubya
12:48.05KotCzarny:>
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12:48.44IR4506do anyone has N810 ?
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12:49.41JOHNY-7i would like to know if N810 is a 3G
12:49.47KotCzarnyno
12:49.54GeneralAntillesHa
12:50.29RST38hKot: No Fidel attribution - 'cause Texans *can* distinguish an ant from a Cuban
12:50.31JOHNY-7:S
12:50.52RST38hKot: No revenge for Dubya - 'cause it is widely known that Dubya does nt use electronics
12:50.58GeneralAntillesJOHNY-7, the N810 is not a cellphone.
12:51.01KotCzarnyrst: but they probably came in a contener from caribbean (spelling?) area
12:51.08GeneralAntillesIt has a Bluetooth radio and an 802.11g radio.
12:51.26RST38hKot: Yea, but Cubans coming in the same containers are usually somewhat larger and darker in color
12:51.39KotCzarny:)
12:51.47KotCzarnyrst, i'm just kidding
12:52.00RST38h:E~
12:52.10JOHNY-7GeneralAntilles? is not a cellphone ?:O
12:52.24JOHNY-7i can't put my sim card inside?
12:52.25RST38hGA is not a cellphone either
12:52.27GeneralAntillesWhat, did you see it and come directly here?
12:52.28KotCzarnyjohny: no, no sim card
12:52.42*** join/#maemo guardian (n=guardian@mar44-1-87-90-32-28.dsl.club-internet.fr)
12:52.45KotCzarnyjohny: you want gsm data, you connect to a bluetooth gsm phone
12:52.48RST38hYou may be able to insert a SIM card into him but he won't handshake to the tower
12:53.00GeneralAntillesYou may not live through the process either.
12:53.13JOHNY-7:(
12:53.27KotCzarnyjohny: wan't gsm, get an iphone
12:53.29KotCzarny:)
12:53.34KotCzarny*want
12:53.42RST38hor get N810+E51
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12:53.43JOHNY-7i was ready to buy it for Cell :P
12:53.50RST38hand treat it as a portable deskphone
12:54.21disqtimeless: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3061
12:54.24term-sigE51?
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12:54.36term-signokia?
12:54.38timelessdisq: i'm lagged
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12:55.11KotCzarny"Ants On A Plane." lol
12:56.49JOHNY-7pfff :S
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12:58.42JOHNY-7ill go back to symbian :P cause win mobile is tooooooo slow
12:58.48RST38hhehe
12:58.54KotCzarnysure
12:58.55RST38hYet another happy WinMobile user
12:58.58KotCzarnyn8x0 is for hackers
12:59.40JOHNY-7[RST38h] i was thinking for HTC TyTn II
12:59.50JOHNY-7but when i show it....
12:59.55JOHNY-7slowwwwwwww :p
13:00.04KotCzarnyget an iphone
13:00.05KotCzarny:P)
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13:00.14JOHNY-7is it faster ?
13:00.21KotCzarnyappears to be so
13:00.23KotCzarny;)
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13:02.41disqtimeless: that bug is about 4.1 being nonexistent in bugzilla version field
13:03.01KotCzarnyis it 4.1 released, yet?
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13:10.59KotCzarnyhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_IV
13:11.00KotCzarnyhehe
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13:12.43KotCzarnydarn, those ants are scary
13:13.03timelessdisq: yeah well...
13:13.06hrwhttps://wiki.maemo.org/index.php/Main_Page
13:13.08timelessum, "oops" :)
13:13.41timelessi'd rather get feedback about problems now, w/ some prayer of getting them fixed
13:13.49timelessthan get bugs tomorrow after the official ship
13:14.12disqtimeless: there's also a "diablo bug thread" in ITT developers forum section
13:14.27KotCzarnyhrw, shouldn't main page list sections rather?
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13:14.43KotCzarnyhrw: thinkwiki has it nicely organized
13:14.44KotCzarny:)
13:15.03timelessdisq: afaik people don't read that :)
13:15.30GeneralAntillesTextrat and others have been pushing the useful bugs from there somewhere internally.
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13:22.23timelessi hate to ask, but does itt have complaints about microb in diablo?
13:23.02GeneralAntillesA few.
13:27.52GeneralAntillesOnly from non-retarded people, though.
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13:56.27hrwKotCzarny: feel free to edit ;D
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14:03.36dnearyAnyone know the nick of Anthony Nguyen?
14:03.59KotCzarnysounds like 419
14:04.01KotCzarny:)
14:04.45KotCzarny(sorry for being stereotypical)
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14:19.19RST38hNguyen is Vietnamese afaik
14:19.37RST38hSo, no, wrong stereotype
14:20.19KotCzarny:)
14:20.26KotCzarnynap time, bbl
14:20.55RST38hsleep tight, ants are coming
14:21.12KotCzarnyi have a terminator in teh building
14:21.15KotCzarnyi'm not afraid
14:21.30jaskaahnold?
14:21.41KotCzarnyhaven't asked about the name
14:22.11KotCzarnyhe usually says 'terminator' to 'who is it'
14:22.54KotCzarnyok, night
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14:49.15timelessok, i did my one good deed for the day
14:49.31timelesswe'll try to finally fix the hardware key submits instead of opening finger keyboard :(
14:49.33timelessno guaranteees
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14:52.16GeneralAntillesThe latest Diablo MicroB is hilariously non-functional where the finger keyboard is concerned. <_<
14:52.48timelessgot a list of bugs?
14:53.04timelessi just pushed 2405 to a dev, hopefully we'll fix it this week
14:53.25timelesssadly most people don't remember the n800
14:53.37timelessin fact, it was "hard" for me to find an n800 to demo the bug :)
14:53.47GeneralAntillesYeah, that one is currently rather ludicrous.
14:54.01timelessfwiw, the summary's very wrong
14:54.05timelessit has nothing to do w/ the start page
14:54.11timelessi seem to recall explaining the bug to someone
14:54.12qwerty12My biggest fault in MicroB is sometimes, when using the normal touch screen keyboard, tapping backspace on a input field closes the touch screen keyboard and sends the backspace signal to the browser which goes a page back.
14:54.15timelessbut i clearly didn't comment in the bug
14:54.24GeneralAntillesstart page is where I experience it
14:54.28timelesssure
14:54.32timelessbut it doesn't relate to start page
14:54.40timelessit's any <input> in any submitable form
14:54.41GeneralAntillesI can't guess that. :P
14:54.56timelessdata:text/html,<form action="data:text/plain,"><input>
14:54.58timelesstry it
14:55.11timelessheck, once you're satisfied, fill in the url field and fix the summary :)
14:55.56timelessqwerty12: got a bug # and testcase?
14:56.03GeneralAntillesI don't disagree, but guessing that at the time of bug submission was a highly unlikely occurrence. ;)
14:56.36qwerty12timeless, Don't really check the bugzilla much. I find it randomly happens but most of the time with the Internet Tablet Talk quick reply.
14:56.49timelessqwerty12: hrm
14:56.58timelesssounds like focus changed and the ime didn't kill itself
14:57.23timelessthe problem is that i think we're actually *required* to honor backspace= go back for the hardware+bt keyboards
14:57.27timeless(this is insane imo, but ...)
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14:57.39timelesshas lost just about every ui decision imaginable
14:57.47GeneralAntillesHa
14:58.01timeless(hrm, forget imaginable, i never imagined needing to decide or explain any of these points)
14:58.05qwerty12Can't there be a gconf value somewhere? I already know that on first boot it runs different commands depending on which RX it is running off.
14:58.05GeneralAntillesHopefully that bugzilla component for that damnable UI spec gets some traction. :\
14:58.21timelessqwert12: hrm
14:58.28timelesshave you seen http://timeless.justdave.net/maemo/
14:58.40timelessspecifically http://timeless.justdave.net/maemo/microb-pageupdown-0.1.deb
14:58.51qwerty12Yeah, I saw that one :)
14:58.56timelessdepending on how "clever" we were, you may be able to do something for goback
14:59.06timelesstraditionally goback is boudn in a similar way
14:59.14timelessi'm not sure if it is in our system
14:59.20timelessi'm also fairly certain i don't want to look
14:59.38qwerty12Ah, ok, thanks. I'll see if I can take a look sometime in that mozilla file.
14:59.44GeneralAntillesWould this be a better summary: "Center d-pad press sends blank form instead of activating finger keyboard when input field is highlighted"
14:59.56timelessgeneral: doesn't matter if it's blank or not
15:00.09timelessd-pad press is treated as <enter> key triggering form submit
15:00.17timelesss/^/center /
15:00.46timelessuse my text to replace your Center...form
15:01.07timelessfwiw, try it w/ data:text/html,<textarea>
15:01.19timelessyou'll see it sends both the <enter> and opens the fkb :)
15:01.38johnxconfirmed :)
15:01.51timelessactually, include that as part of the url...
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15:02.03GeneralAntillesOh, also, enter in the finger keyboard closes the finger keyboard instead of sending the form/url.
15:02.05timelessand include steps to show both bugs and expected results/actual
15:02.13timelesshrm
15:02.24timelessthat's funny, but please treat that as a distinct bug
15:02.40GeneralAntillesWhich was something that actually got a lot better in everything ELSE in Diablo, except MicroB.
15:02.49timelessheh
15:02.59timelesskeep in mind that web browsers basically reimplement everything
15:03.03GeneralAntillesThough, strangely, just better, instead of FIXED. <_<
15:03.04timelessbecause they have to
15:03.21timelessyou can't honestly tell me you're surprised by that? :)
15:03.29GeneralAntillesNo, I can't.
15:03.40GeneralAntillesBut if I think about the fact that I'm not surprised I'll just get depressed.
15:03.45timelessanyway, if you have bugs, i think there's time to report them
15:03.59GeneralAntillesNot that we have a 4.1. . . .
15:04.07timelessso please, report... let's try to have a relatively debug'd version :)
15:04.27timelessum... yeah well... enough people have that leaked version to go bug hunting
15:04.44qwerty12coughs
15:04.51qwerty12So where are those bugs reported?
15:05.05timelessi'd prefer you file them in bugs.maemo.org
15:05.11timelessi'll try to find people to pull them in
15:05.17timelessbe sure to include the system information
15:05.40timeless(especially the week number so that people recognize it isn't the official release)
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15:05.53GeneralAntillesOK, I guess we do have a 4.1 now.
15:06.01timelessyeah *cough*
15:06.04timeless"oops" ;-)
15:06.11GeneralAntillesHa
15:06.46timelesshistorically people have actually been given prereleases and filed bugs in bugs.maemo.org w/ a private flag
15:07.10*** join/#maemo vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim)
15:07.13qwerty12Is there a chinook equivalent of the gtk-infoprint.h? :/
15:07.31GeneralAntillesWhat's the term for the drop-down on the URL bar?
15:07.41timelesshttp://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/find?string=gtk.*infop.*h
15:07.45timelesssays not by that name
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15:08.07qwerty12Ah, thanks :/
15:08.30timelesshttp://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/os2008/search?string=infoprint&find=gtk.*h
15:09.03qwerty12Thanks
15:09.03infobotqwerty12: bitte
15:09.05RST38hhello qwerty
15:09.11qwerty12hi RST38h :)
15:09.18timelesshttp://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/os2008/find?string=hildon.*note&tree=os2008&hint=
15:09.21timelessis probably what you want
15:09.28timelessif i were to hazard a guess
15:09.42qwerty12I'll try it out, many thanks :)
15:09.54timelessthe xref is your friend :)
15:10.24qwerty12I've never really understood it before but now I will try and use it :)
15:10.50timelessmind you, figuring out you want a note from infoprint isn't easy or obvious
15:11.59timelesshttp://www.mirrors.docunext.com/cgi-bin/maemo-hildon/view/hildon-1/ChangeLog.2
15:12.06timelessis probably the evidence of its death
15:13.04qwerty12Hehe, I need a copy in my fight for USB Networking.
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15:15.34GeneralAntillestimeless, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3179
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15:28.41timelessok, so um... any other major bugs i should know about? :)
15:29.07GeneralAntillesNope, only two I've run into.
15:30.13lopzre
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15:32.30*** topic/#maemo is development platform for Nokia Internet Tablets | http://maemo.org/news/events/maemo_irc_meeting-001/ | http://freedesktop.org/Software/sbox2/Maemo | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | http://www.gronmayer.com/it | http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook
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15:33.32keesjtimeless: did you look at the survey one ? http://maemo.mmapps.net/n810_survey/
15:34.47*** join/#maemo infobot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
15:34.47*** topic/#maemo is development platform for Nokia Internet Tablets | http://maemo.org/news/events/maemo_irc_meeting-001/ | http://freedesktop.org/Software/sbox2/Maemo | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | http://www.gronmayer.com/it | http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook
15:35.27qwerty12wishes infobot didn't come back.
15:35.44GeneralAntillesSomebody go find TimRiker and beat him with a stick.
15:36.04TimRiker~lart GeneralAntilles
15:36.04infobotblasts GeneralAntilles with a huge firehose then strangles GeneralAntilles with it
15:36.10GeneralAntillesthanks
15:36.10infobotGeneralAntilles: my pleasure
15:36.15GeneralAntillesNo more of that, please.
15:36.18johnxahaha
15:36.20qwerty12That's actually a good curse.
15:36.33qwerty12Compared to what it normally says :/
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15:40.34*** topic/#maemo is development platform for Nokia Internet Tablets | http://maemo.org/news/events/maemo_irc_meeting-001/ | http://freedesktop.org/Software/sbox2/Maemo | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | http://www.gronmayer.com/it | http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook
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15:42.05timelesskeesjy: i meant to
15:42.08timelesslemme do that now
15:43.29timelesskeesj: ok, first thing i see, the page doesn't fit on my device
15:44.08timelesswow
15:44.20timelessum, could you reduce the select problem into a simple page and file a bug for just that?
15:44.23timelessit's um... *bad*
15:44.29keesj:P
15:44.38timelessgah
15:44.48timelesswhat idiot decided that American (nationality) was a language?
15:45.04johnxso you can't speak American?
15:45.06qwerty12hehe
15:45.11timelessnope
15:45.11keesj:p so you can at least reproduce it . ok
15:45.31timelessi suppose i should say "which idiot"
15:45.42timelesssighs and goes back to reviewing slides written by a humble non native speaker
15:45.47timelessa wise humble non native speaker...
15:45.52timelessone wise enough to ask for a review...
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15:46.21timelessbtw, are there supposed to be other slides?
15:46.28timelessall it asks me for is my language
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15:46.56keesjthis was already a copy or course there are about 60 slides so ...
15:47.10timelessok
15:47.27timelessanyway, please reduce and find/file a bug
15:47.29timelessthat sucks :(
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15:49.37timelessi know there was a bug where you played pong w/ quim
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15:49.44timelessit's probably best to just use another bug
15:50.21keesjyes , perhaps it really is a css issue
15:50.52timelessoh brother
15:50.59timelesssomeone wants me to verify the ssl fix
15:51.06timelessanyone know how to verify it?
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15:51.48johnxis this the debian related thing?
15:51.51timelessyes
15:51.56johnxverify a "suitable" amount of entropy?
15:52.04timelessa guy is stupid enough to file a bug to derail a release
15:52.09timelessand what thanks does he get
15:52.15timelesshe's obligated to verify the fix
15:52.24timelessthat'll teach me never to file critical bugs
15:53.22andre___obligated? who sid that?
15:53.41timelessinternal politics
15:53.47timelessor bean counting
15:53.50johnxuse the entropy to make a random number, let 10 N8x0s sit their generating random numbers for 3 days, make sure the numbers look random
15:54.07andre___people are not obligated at all. it would just be nice if  they could confirm it
15:54.18timelessemployees are obligated
15:54.22timelesspeople are special
15:54.26timelessemployees are not people
15:54.41andre___ah, employees - thats okay indeed
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15:54.49timelessoh sure, no sympathy
15:54.52andre___thought you refered to users
15:55.25andre___well - of course it could also be done by qa
15:55.44andre___nokia's decision how to organize that :-)
15:56.03timelesssadly, it ought to be done by someone who has a clue
15:56.10timelessand in this case, i don't know anyone who qualifies
15:56.11andre___hehe
15:56.15dougtis there any difference between launch an application from SSH, and launching the same application via an the gui?  For example, is it a fair test to ssh into the device, run fennec, and measure performance?  Or is there something special when you double tap on an icon that launches fennec?  Reason I am asking is that there are some reports of better perf when not ssh'ing in.
15:56.17timelessthat includes me
15:56.25dougthttps://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=433578#c6
15:56.29andre___argh, understand
15:56.44timelessdougt: i did my measurement from ssh
15:57.07timelessare you using wifi or usb for ssh?
15:57.14dougtwifi
15:57.18timelesskeep in mind that you might be influencing the network stack
15:57.21timelesstry usb?
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15:57.40dougtmaybe.
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15:58.13timelessi like the changes to the commented out block
15:58.45timelessanyway, the touchscreen driver is fairly sensitive
15:58.52timelesswe found all sorts of things changed behaviors
15:58.56timelesse.g. using the serial console
15:59.01timelessyou should talk to sp3000
15:59.07timelesshe can connect you to people who know more/better
15:59.11dougtk
15:59.25dougtdid you see my patch to expose mouse pressure in the DOM?
15:59.28dougtpretty cool demo.
15:59.56timelessi missed it
16:00.08dougthttp://dougt.wordpress.com/2008/05/05/mouseevent-pressure-property/
16:00.09timelessare you trying to put maemopadplus out of business?
16:00.22dougtno, i just want to make the web better.
16:00.37dougtlooks at maemopadplus
16:01.12timelessfor a while maemopadplus was used to help people demonstrate how busted their n800 touchscreens were :)
16:01.22GeneralAntillesHa
16:01.33GeneralAntillesI hope the N900 has a slightly less-shitty touchscreen. . . .
16:02.20qwerty12I hope the N900 is what the N800 isn't.
16:02.24qwerty12/wierd mode over.
16:02.44timelessdougt: fwiw, most toucpads on windows expose pressure
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16:02.48timelessso you should add it for win32
16:03.02timelessbut keep in mind that people will start breaking the web
16:03.06timelessby requiring/expecting the feature
16:03.12timelessmicrob is already hosed because of this
16:03.37Knirchoh god yes please, break the web!
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16:03.55Knirchbring gopher back! Bring Gopher Back! *rallies*
16:04.52timelessdougt: i'd agrue that by default apps should not be allowed access to pressure information
16:05.17dougttimeless: i disagree that it breaks the web.
16:05.30timelessdougt: if someone writes an app that requires pressure
16:05.35timelessand i'm using a browser that isn't pressure enabled
16:05.37timelessi'm locked out
16:05.40timelessthis is not good.
16:05.42sp3000timeless, dougt: eero seems to watch maemo-developers
16:06.18sp3000but I suppose one thing to check is if you're spewing enough through ssh to slow things down, indeed :)
16:07.14qwerty12scratchbox: "configure: error: Your system doesn't have "bc", which has been a standard part of Unix since the 1970s.  Come back when your vendor has grown a clue."
16:07.15qwerty12hehe
16:07.23johnxahaha
16:07.26johnxqwerty12, what distro?
16:07.27timelessnice
16:07.31RST38hpoor poor vendor
16:07.36qwerty12No distro :). Maemo SDK :p
16:07.41RST38hpoor poor configure
16:07.45johnxah...classy
16:07.55RST38hqwerty: do you want a setup that will not require qutoconf & fiends?
16:07.58*** join/#maemo sm00th_trac3r (n=sm00th@91.195.111.236)
16:08.01johnxyeah...I kinda hate people's configure scripts a lot of the time...
16:08.03timelesssp3000: help
16:08.03RST38hs/quotoconf/autoconf/
16:08.22qwerty12I don't mind compiling bc etc, that error made me chuckle :)
16:08.24qwerty12Thanks
16:08.24infobotqwerty12: my pleasure
16:08.38qwerty12beats the shit out of infobot
16:08.43NaviHeh
16:08.48NaviI built bc already.
16:08.49dougttimeless: there are a bunch of DOM features that are going to be optional.
16:08.58RST38hremembers creating a project in KDevelop - the system hung for about 5 minutes and, when stopped, managed to create >200 files in the project directory
16:09.01GeneralAntillesqwerty12, just highlight TimRiker everytime it does that. :P
16:09.02dougttimeless: GPS/location, pressure, camera, etc.
16:09.13timelessdougt: features can't be optional
16:09.15RST38hautoconf, automake, copy of GPL, whatever
16:09.18timelessyou need to let users set values
16:09.18qwerty12GeneralAntilles, hehe
16:09.27timelessdoing otherwise is discriminatory
16:09.37timelessand you have to let the users lie
16:09.37TimRikerGeneralAntilles: it's a lame bug introduced by troubled. spam him. :)
16:09.52timelessesp gps
16:09.55befordhello, I've started running out of space on the internal memory for n810, i installed severals apps, downloaded cover art for my mp3, etc. I've got a microSD of 8gb. What kind of files can I move to the microsd? I've already moved the covers folder, and symlinked it. but I dont know what else should I move.
16:09.56timelessbut also camera
16:10.05timelessif someone tries to use a camera on a device that doesn't have a camera
16:10.13GeneralAntillesbeford, delete the documentation PDFs.
16:10.26GeneralAntillesThat's 32MB or so right there.
16:10.36timelessthe user should be able to feed the app an image
16:10.44dougttimeless: have you looked at any of the capabilities spec?
16:10.55qwerty12And the weird tracks included with the N810/N800. Where's my RnB and grime and hip-hop!?!
16:11.05timelessdoubtful mailto timeless@gmail
16:11.27GeneralAntillesOh be quite Mr. I-have-no-taste-in-music
16:11.32GeneralAntilless/quite/quiet/
16:11.52elbheh yeah the tracks that come on the 810 are pretty lame
16:11.58qwerty12GeneralAntilles, Just stick with your Bob Marley ;)
16:12.01elbI dunno about RnB and hip-hop, but still
16:12.11mrlanratAnd the music video.
16:12.22RST38hKILL KILL RM
16:13.33RST38hNEC "invented" heart shaped LCD
16:13.44qwerty12NEC are cheesy
16:13.49RST38hhow touching!
16:14.04qwerty12Baby! I gave you my heart,
16:14.18mrlanratWow, who would buy sutch a thing?
16:14.26*** join/#maemo mardi__ (n=mardi_@host81-146-46-123.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net)
16:14.34qwerty12RST38h keeps a few for himself
16:14.34RST38hwonders how marketing department managed to justify that
16:14.38johnxI think I know some people...
16:14.41NaviHeh
16:14.49qwerty12Don't be shy johnx!
16:14.50X-FadePhotoframes..
16:14.50johnxis this sold only in Japan by any chance?
16:15.14GeneralAntillesTimRiker, he says it's a non-reproducible bug unique to your bot, and that you should revert back to 1.5.2.
16:15.22NaviYay for Japanese overpriced consumer electronics
16:15.34johnx...with incredibly cutesy themes
16:15.38TimRikerGeneralAntilles: thanx for the obvious.
16:16.01GeneralAntillesThe people suffering here are the ones at the receiving end of the spambot. ;)
16:16.09NaviHello Kitty Heart Shaped LCDs - BUY NOW!
16:16.43qwerty12Lets keep on excess flooding the bot :p
16:16.50qwerty12Navi, Sure, where from?
16:17.06befordIs the 'n810' storage different to the 'Internal memory card' storage?
16:17.15GeneralAntillesThere are 2 parts
16:17.29GeneralAntillesThe internal flash memory where the OS is which is 256MB
16:17.40GeneralAntillesand the internal soldered-on SD card that's 2GB.
16:18.29befordok, so all the apps are installed on the 256 mb?
16:18.34GeneralAntillesYes
16:18.43GeneralAntillesI recommend investigating booting from an SD.
16:20.04TimRikerhello
16:20.07TimRikerthanks
16:20.16TimRikerGeneralAntilles: should be fixed now.
16:20.24GeneralAntillesWonderful. Thanks, TimRiker. :)
16:20.24qwerty12thanks
16:20.37qwerty12w00t, infobot isn't replying :)
16:20.42NaviThanks
16:20.47Naviawesome
16:20.52johnxthanks for shutting the hell up infobot!
16:21.09qwerty12infobot, I <3 you again :wub:
16:21.10infobotYou <3 you again :wub:?
16:21.26Navi>_>
16:21.26qwerty12That would be going round in circles...
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16:22.40GnutonQt 4.4.0 packages with webkit are available for maemo
16:22.56Navisex
16:23.03Gnutonon qt4.garage.maemo.org
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16:26.35befordwhat's the worst thing it could happen if a firmware update/installation goes wrong
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16:26.48keesjtimeless: it is a font thingy http://maemo.mmapps.net/test2/index.html (me will bug later)
16:26.54timelessyou have an expensive brick
16:26.58timelesssay ~$450
16:27.09GeneralAntillesWell, if it goes wrong during the NOLO flash you'd need a serial JTAG cable to flash that again.
16:27.12qwerty12Even with a serial cable that could be fixed
16:27.16qwerty12General beat me to it.
16:27.22GeneralAntillesBut that's incredibly unlikely.
16:27.31*** join/#maemo pH5 (n=user@e178254212.adsl.alicedsl.de)
16:27.40GeneralAntillesand even if it fails at any OTHER point, you can still reflash again without issue.
16:27.52timelesskeesj: be sure to tell people to use 100% zoom
16:27.54qwerty12I've only seen 2 people brick theirs on ITT and thats only because they were writing to mtd from the tablet, not from an update.
16:27.57timeless@80% zoomm the bug isn't visible :)
16:28.16Naviawesome
16:28.18johnxI've never actually heard of anyone bricking their tablet with any official Nokia flashing tool
16:28.21GeneralAntillesYes, NOLO is extremely small and the flasher moves quite rapidly.
16:28.35qwerty12I've never bricked mine with 0xFFFF, forget official :)
16:29.13timelesswell, someone asked what was possible
16:29.18timelessi love answering such questions :)
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16:30.04GeneralAntillesYes, scaring users out of updating their tablets is definitely the way to go. :P
16:30.20johnxtimeless, oh c'mon...you can make up a better worst case scenario than that! :P
16:30.28GeneralAntillesHehe
16:30.31qwerty12timeless, Wrong place to ask but can you please put back the confirmation when asking to update the package list? I use it to see when application manager is non busy and tapping it in diablo makes it busy again :/
16:30.40johnxwhat about some random single bit error while flashing bme or something?
16:30.58qwerty12Does bme get flashed? I thought bme was a proggie on initfs?
16:31.11GeneralAntillesinitfs gets flashed. :P
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16:31.27GeneralAntillesI like your thinking, though, johnx.
16:31.28johnx"flashed" is kind of a confusing word with NAND I think...
16:31.46johnxGeneralAntilles, I try to be a good pessimist
16:31.47GeneralAntilles*explosion*
16:32.20GeneralAntillesSo, instead of a $450 brick, you end up with a $450 grenade and no fingers. :D
16:32.34johnxnah...you're still not thinking big picture
16:32.53GeneralAntillesEducate me in the ways of pessimism, master.
16:33.06johnxin the *worst* case it lights on fire next to your curtains in the middle of the night and burns down your apartment complex
16:33.19GeneralAntillesand the orphanage next door?
16:33.32johnxdon't forget the old folks home on the other side
16:33.43GeneralAntillesI . . . think I understand now.
16:33.58qwerty12If it burnt down my neighbours house, I wouldn't be pessimistic...
16:34.02timelesssorry, you're right
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16:34.12GeneralAntillesHey, you have bad neighbors, too, qwerty12? :D
16:34.13timelessit is possible to cause your device to blow up
16:34.21GeneralAntillesmy neighbors breed pitbulls.
16:34.24timelessif you mess up the battery charger regulation mechanism
16:34.36johnxconfirmation for Nokia! I'll start a thread on ITT! woo!
16:34.40johnxs/for/from/
16:34.44Mouseyconfromation on what?
16:34.44GeneralAntillesHaha
16:34.51qwerty12GeneralAntilles, Yep :). The dodgy music they put on at 11PM in the night and I swear they go into our garden...
16:34.58GeneralAntillesThat flashing your device will result in it blowing up. :D
16:35.04Mouseyoh
16:35.07timelessno no
16:35.26timelessif you use an unofficial flash or somehow void your warrantee
16:35.30timelesssomething like that could happen
16:35.37qwerty12Don't worry, we got logs :p. Timeless confirmed it :P
16:35.37Mouseyuh huh
16:36.16johnxyeah and I'm the only one offering insurance for this important issue! :D
16:36.32johnxyou wouldn't want anything *bad* to happen to your tablet, now would'ya?
16:36.40GeneralAntillesthinks we somebody should alert Darius.
16:36.51GeneralAntilless/we//
16:36.59timeless?
16:37.15JaffaNokia support terrorists!
16:37.25johnxtimeless, Darius is semi-famous for his "interesting" posts on ITT and maemo-dev
16:37.36timeless:( please don't quote me
16:37.40timelessi don't want to get in trouble
16:37.50timelessbut basically if you do void your warrantee
16:37.50GeneralAntillesHehe, we're only kidding. ;)
16:38.00timelessand say directly apply voltage to the battery or something
16:38.10timelessit should be possible to make it at least smoke if not do something worse
16:38.22qwerty12Make it rain
16:38.30timelessi'm not sure how, but i suspect that a chemist could explain
16:38.48summatusmentiswell, you see...
16:38.57johnxyeah definitely. I've heard the stories about RC plane guys having Li-Ion batteries go up from improper charging
16:39.02summatusmentisis not a chemist
16:39.25GeneralAntillesdariusjack2006 at yahoo.com is his email on the lists.
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16:45.36qwerty12is happy that diablo's apt has autoremove
16:46.00befordjust wondering, when I type exit on the X terminal, it seems to closes busybox, but osso_xterm keeps running. that's *normal* right?
16:46.08johnxyup
16:46.17sp3000beford: bug
16:46.20qwerty12It's a bug. Grab a svn version where it was fixed.
16:46.31GeneralAntillesBehavior is fixed in Diablo.
16:46.37summatusmentisdiablo? is that OS2008 4.1?
16:46.42qwerty12yes
16:46.59summatusmentisDiablo is also the Nokia software used for flashing phones IIRC
16:47.09qwerty12That's Phoenix ;)
16:47.27summatusmentiswell, Phoenix for some phones
16:47.32johnxit's also...ya'know...the devil
16:47.34summatusmentisolder phones used Diablo, I think
16:47.39summatusmentisjohnx: well, yes :)
16:47.41qwerty12It's phoenix for all the new BB5 phones.
16:47.44qwerty12Diego is the old one
16:47.54summatusmentisoh... yeah, Diego
16:48.08summatusmentiss/abl/ie/
16:48.09qwerty12Ironically, N800 is BB5 so Phoenix has N800 support too.
16:48.21summatusmentisI can't type, nvm
16:49.00summatusmentisI'm gonna break down and do it
16:49.18summatusmentisI'm pretty sure I'm buying an N810 within the next few days
16:49.36qwerty12Go on, you know you want to :p
16:49.51summatusmentisI do want to, most definitely
16:49.57summatusmentisit's a matter of whether or not I can
16:50.14summatusmentisneed to make sure the check won't bounce, all that
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16:51.36summatusmentisalright, leaving now.
16:51.38summatusmentispeace all
16:51.41qwerty12Bye
16:52.19*** join/#maemo simboss_ (n=chatzill@79.27.13.84)
16:52.34qwerty12MUST get rocks and diamonds compiled :/
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16:59.37befordthere is an application that says 'teach handwriting' but I can't see any app to handwrite :|
16:59.40*** join/#maemo s1d (n=s1d@64.81.136.196)
16:59.54johnxit's an input method
17:00.02fysatouch to bring up the stylus keypad
17:00.08johnxin the small keyboard click the lowest left key I think
17:00.14fysathen there is a button on that keyboard that lets you switch to handwriting
17:00.25fysayes, lower left
17:01.27jdiazcan the external flash memory be used as swap memory on n810?
17:01.46GeneralAntillesjdiaz, Control Panel: Memory -> Virtual tab
17:01.56jdiazcontrol panel only gives the option of using the internal flash memory
17:02.02GeneralAntillesIt'll use the internal with GUI
17:02.08eocanhaHi
17:02.08GeneralAntillesYou could change it to external if you wanted, though.
17:02.17qwerty12jdiaz, Make a swap file with dd and use swapon
17:02.18GeneralAntillesJust not through the GUI.
17:02.33jdiazGA, thanks, that is what I was asking for
17:02.59eocanhamaemo_4-0_tutorial recommends the usage of gtk_window_fullscreen() and gtk_window_unfullscreen() but, is there any way to know the current fullscreen state of a window?
17:04.04*** join/#maemo PhosphoricX (n=Phosphor@76-14-181-155.wsac.wavecable.com)
17:05.58eocanhabeford: you have to select one letter in the left list and you'll see its current handwriting patterns
17:06.14eocanhathen you can click on "Add" button to add a new pattern for that letter.
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17:08.34befordyea but, I'm still unable to use handwriting my virtual keyboard still doesn't appear
17:09.02jdiazhmm.. before creating the swap file with dd, should I defragment the unit? Or the defragmenting concept is not applicable to flash drives?
17:09.03*** join/#maemo _matthias__ (n=matthias@w216-2.wist.uni-linz.ac.at)
17:09.03PhosphoricXAnybody know a good tutorial on setting up sbrsh, especially with ESBox. I've followed the Maemo HOWTO, but I'm still having problems
17:09.15*** join/#maemo unixSnob_ (n=jgombos@68-29-205-4.area4.spcsdns.net)
17:09.50johnxjdiaz, exactly. the "sectors" reported by an SD card aren't really the way the data is organized on the card
17:09.52*** join/#maemo Pio (n=sean@h94.149.4.12.cable.frzr.cablerocket.net)
17:10.19jdiazso I can't jump ahead to dd/mkswap/swapon
17:10.28johnxyou can
17:10.45eocanhabeford: do you see a popup appearing? It says "draw desired shape in the entry area" (translated back from spanish), and shows a box similar to the one in the virtual keyboard, but doesn't really show the virtual keyboard itself
17:10.49jdiazyes, I can, sorry. That's what I intended to write :-)
17:10.59befordgot it working :] I had disabled stylus input method on the control panel
17:11.10befordit was probably me, heh.
17:11.12johnxjdiaz, kind of what I thought. I figured I'd be clear though. :)
17:11.52jdiazeocanha, español?
17:11.57eocanhasí
17:12.00eocanha(yes)
17:12.07jdiazme too
17:12.08jdiaz:)
17:12.16befordyo too
17:12.35eocanhahehe, I supposed that from your surname
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17:15.58befordthere is a #maemo-es channel registered but is dead
17:16.31beford-ChanServ-      Channel: #maemo-es
17:16.32beford-ChanServ-      Contact: Skyhusker
17:16.32beford-ChanServ-   Registered: 2 years 30 weeks (19h 3m 9s) ago
17:16.32beford-ChanServ-    Last Used: 2 years 23 weeks 4 days (2h 26m 24s) ago
17:16.43beford:/
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17:19.29lopzmm how actualice scale in python+gtk+gstreamer ? for control position the file multimedia :\
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17:38.22jdiazHum... I created a swapfile on /media/mmc1 using dd and mkswap, and then swapon. All this was almost instantaneous
17:38.37jdiazhowever, when using the GUI, a progress bar is displayed, and it takes a lot of time to complete
17:38.44jdiazwhat is it doing?
17:39.14johnxI really don't know
17:39.19zapfilling with zeros perhaps :)
17:39.42jdiazthat is what dd is for, and it takes less than half of the time
17:39.56jdiazwell, it doesn't matter much
17:39.57zapwell I think the sources should be available :)
17:39.58elbyou didn't skip= did you?
17:40.26jdiazi didn't... where I sould did it?
17:40.31zapin dd
17:40.36elbOK
17:40.38jdiazno
17:40.42elbskip= will make dd much faster, but it's not safe
17:41.18elb(well, not safe on filesystems which support sparse files, anyway)
17:41.19zapare you sure you mean skip?
17:41.39zapskip just skips blocks in output
17:41.40elbyes
17:41.42elbright
17:41.52zapand fills previous sectors with zero you mean?
17:42.03elbno, it doesn't do anything to the previous sectors
17:42.08elbit seeks to the skipped point before writing
17:42.09zapit depends on file system
17:42.19elbso on filesystems which support sparse files, those blocks won't be allocated
17:42.20zapsafe filesystems will fill with zeros
17:42.37elb"safe" isn't the issue, really
17:42.39zapon filesystems which support sparse files anything won't be written to disk afaik
17:42.42elbwhen you read back, you'll get zeroes
17:43.00zapsame when you write zeros, some fs will optimize out such writes
17:43.08elbbut it's dangeorus for swap files, because you can oversubscribe your disk space using sparse files
17:43.17elbno filesystem I'm aware of optimizes out blocks of zeroes
17:43.22elbthat's a lot of overhead
17:43.52elbanyway, if he didn't use it, that's not the answer to the speed question, which is the only reason I asked
17:44.12zapI have read about this not so long ago
17:44.18zapperhaps about ext4 or ocfs2
17:44.47elbcompressed filesystems might do such a thing, that's the only place it makes sense
17:44.56elbverifying that a block is full of zeroes means you have to touch every byte
17:44.59elbwhich is Not Cool
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17:45.17zapwell, when you read blocks from /dev/zero I'm not sure they really exist
17:45.27elbthey do
17:45.41zapthey could be just marked somehow until first access
17:45.58elbwhatever reads from /dev/zero actually gets zeroes
17:46.18zapsure it does, when it accesses it
17:46.34PhosphoricXHow do the permissions work with sbrsh? I keep getting "permission denied"
17:46.37elbI'm not sure where you're getting this information, but I think it's unfounded speculation
17:46.42elband it's not related to johnx's question anyway
17:46.49zap=)
17:46.51elberr, jdiaz
17:46.55PhosphoricXThe sbrshd log tells me that it's trying to use an invalid uid and gid
17:47.31johnxI actually scrolled back to see if I had asked a question and then totally forgotten...
17:47.33*** join/#maemo mysc (i=damancha@DOMINIA.MIT.EDU)
17:47.55johnxThat's totally the kind of thing I would do... ;)
17:48.28myscanyone else notice the n810 battery cover is not airtight, a tad loose and battery moves
17:48.59elbI'm not sure why you'd expect it to be airtight
17:49.21elbmine isn't "loose", but you can move it around a little with a bit of force
17:49.39myscnot literally airtight, but if you press it on the left side it does depress
17:50.03befordis there any option to lock the applets on the home screen?
17:50.21johnxno
17:50.37beford:[
17:50.55johnxthere's an enhancement request on bugs.maemo.org though, I believe
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17:51.04myscelb, yours doesn't at all?
17:51.12elbdoesn't what?
17:51.42befordits a PITA to move them to the right places
17:51.53myscflip it over and with your thumbs slide it downwards, doesn't it give a bit?
17:52.10elbyes, as I said, it will move around with a bit of force
17:52.10zapelb: can you look at drivers/char/mem.c? Look at function read_zero_pagealigned()
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17:53.25elbzap: what am I looking at?
17:53.26zapit first does zap_page_range() there, then zeromap_page_range()
17:53.32zaphow /dev/zero works
17:53.39zaplinux kernel I mean
17:53.47elbsure, what's your point?
17:54.28zapit doesn't fill pages with zeros
17:54.31keesjis there a mmmmeting today?
17:54.38zapit just marks them as 'needs to be zeroed when accessed'
17:54.39elbsure it does, it's just deferred
17:54.43zapyep
17:55.01elbnothing will ever see pages which aren't zero-filled
17:55.01zapso when you're writing them to some device, someone could detect such pages
17:55.03*** join/#maemo thopiekar (n=thopieka@p57A16026.dip.t-dialin.net)
17:55.13zapand it doesn't have to scan it to know that it's filled with zeros
17:55.18thopiekarhi @ all
17:55.19elbthis is wild speculation again
17:55.21zapyep
17:55.27zapbut you said the same about /dev/zero :)
17:55.32elbno, I didn't
17:55.32thopiekarwho of you worked with alsa-oss?
17:55.39elbI never said anything about /dev/zero which wasn't correct
17:55.57zapok
17:55.57elbthe *manner* in which the zero pages are created is irrelevant -- userspace *really does* read zeroes
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17:56.13zapyes, but if you just do read()/write() you don't actually access the pages
17:56.16elbI assume, by the fact that you found that, that you understand how the MMU works at at least some basic level
17:56.22elbthe kernel will access them when it writes
17:56.27zapnope
17:56.41zapthe pages will be handed to the block device driver in a iob
17:56.48zapuntouched
17:56.56elbyes, it's possible that the write() path reaches deep into the VM subsystem to find out if the pages have ever been initialized -- but that would be a pretty gross hack
17:56.58zapor to the fs
17:57.02thopiekari'm searching for /etc/modules.d/alsa but i can't find it on my it
17:57.03elbfor more or less no benefit
17:57.05thopiekar..
17:57.12zapperhaps you're right
17:57.20thopiekarcan someone help me?
17:57.36zapthopiekar: there's no ALSA in N810 :)
17:57.51thopiekarwhat's about mplayer?
17:57.59Yjohas anyone here had any luck setting up usbnet with vista?
17:58.01thopiekari can use it with alsa..
17:58.08elbit also ties every write path which wants to do so to specific architectures, which is ugly
17:58.44zapthopiekar: there is some virtual alsa device which routes sound through /dev/dsp/pcm*
17:59.02johnxthopiekar, what exactly are you trying to do?
17:59.48thopiekari wanna use alsa-oss to hear music from the mediaplayer
18:00.03*** join/#maemo playya_ (n=playya@p57B2830B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
18:00.11johnxthe built-in media player?
18:00.11thopiekarand "link" it to my bluetooth earspeaker
18:00.16thopiekarusing a2dp
18:00.22thopiekaryes
18:00.23zapit already does that
18:00.31zapmediaplayer plays through gstreamer
18:00.45johnxbut it can't output to a2dp
18:00.49thopiekarbut not trough a2dp
18:00.53zapif you're connected via bluetooth to some device
18:01.02zapwhich supports the respective protocol
18:01.05zapit will play via it
18:01.22zapI've connected via BT to my laptop and to my surprise music started to come out of laptop speakers
18:01.26qwerty12_N800He doesn't want to use hfp or hsp
18:01.36elbhah nice
18:01.39johnxzap, only for hsp, not a2dp
18:01.41thopiekarthats it
18:01.48zapI'm not a bluetooth guru though
18:01.52elbso the it provides an a2dp *output*?
18:02.11zapno idea really :) it just worked for me
18:02.14thopiekarno it is "hackable"
18:02.18elboh, you mean the other way around
18:02.20thopiekartrough alsa
18:02.20myscshit, my "t" key sends two keypresses
18:02.23elbthe it played out of the laptop speakers?
18:02.26thopiekarright johnx??^^
18:02.27myscdid i get a DOA model?
18:02.32elbmysc: does it always do it?
18:02.36zapn810 plays through laptop speakers
18:02.37myscyes
18:02.39elbthe 810 keys are a bit bouncy
18:02.43*** join/#maemo shackan (n=frob@host101-143-dynamic.1-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
18:02.49elbbut I don't have any which consistently bounce
18:02.49myscit's the only key which does it
18:02.53johnxthopiekar, yeah, you can do a2dp through mplayer without too much trouble...but it doesn't work that well
18:02.56elband a t key that doubles isn't "DOA" ;-)
18:03.00Yjohas anyone found Vista drivers that work with n800 usb networking?
18:03.21thopiekari know ... i checked out you thread on ott
18:03.24thopiekar*itt
18:03.24myscwell it ain't good
18:03.39johnxthopiekar, however, I don't think anyone's found out a way to get it working with the built-in media player
18:04.01johnxits output device isn't configurable, if I understand correctly
18:04.17johnxit outputs directly through gstreamer
18:04.26thopiekarisn't it possible to use alsa-oss to fix this?
18:04.53johnxerr
18:04.55myscelb, the
18:04.57johnxI don't think so
18:04.57myscthe
18:05.10myscthe "t" and "u" do it. and the "t" makes a u
18:05.12zapthere are no OSS nor ALSA hw devices
18:05.14*** join/#maemo playya (n=playya@p57B283B1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
18:05.14qwerty12_N800Does gstreamer use oss? I thought it was esd.
18:05.16*** join/#maemo Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun)
18:05.25johnxthopiekar, it depends on the chain of gstreamer "sinks" media player uses
18:05.30johnxqwerty12_N800, I'm thinking neither
18:05.36thopiekar"aoss /usr/bin/*mediaplayer-bin" works fine
18:05.39zapsome sinks in gstreamer routes sound directly to DSP
18:05.45zapand there's no output from them
18:05.54thopiekarbut the sound comes out of the "default" pcm
18:05.55thopiekar...
18:06.15qwerty12_N800thopiekar, try aoss on the osso-media-server
18:06.16johnxthopiekar, the alsa "devices" on the tablet are an emulation
18:06.22johnxthey're not the real hardware devices
18:06.55*** join/#maemo Khertan_n810 (n=Khertan_@193.253.141.89)
18:07.10thopiekarqwerty12_N800, I tried... it works...
18:07.23qwerty12_N800What works?
18:07.30thopiekarjohnx, is it possible to port alsa?
18:07.36zapmplayer for n810 has no OSS support
18:07.36thopiekaraoss...
18:07.42Khertan_n810Hi !
18:07.44zapalsa is there
18:07.48zapyou don't have to port it :)
18:07.50thopiekarhi
18:08.00thopiekarjust emulated...
18:08.05johnxthopiekar, gstreamer access the dsp directly and uses it to play sound
18:08.05Khertan_n810someone can help me i m looking for extras autorized section
18:08.06zapnot quite true
18:08.13Khertan_n810?
18:08.26zapit's the native alsa libs, just that there are only 'software' output devices
18:08.34thopiekarI wanna port alsa without emulating
18:08.35thopiekar...
18:08.41thopiekarpossible??
18:08.44zapyou cannot
18:08.46X-FadeKhertan_n810: What's up?
18:08.47johnxthopiekar, you would need to write an entirely new sound driver
18:09.11johnxthopiekar, on a desktop linux system it looks like this: mplayer -> alsa -> sound hardware
18:09.20Khertan_n810x-fade : i m fine and u
18:09.23thopiekarisn't it possible to get the gstreamers one (driver)?
18:09.25Khertan_n810?
18:09.26zapthopiekar: that your bluetooth program, it intercepts OSS or ALSA?
18:09.39johnxthopiekar, on the tablet it looks like this: mplayer -> alsa layer -> gstreamer -> dsp -> sound hardware
18:09.54X-FadeKhertan_n810: Debugging some new features for the autobuilder.
18:10.12Khertan_n810i ll publish in a few minutes to extras devel my own calendar application ... with google calendar sync
18:10.25johnxKhertan_n810, woo!
18:10.27Khertan_n810i just need to found the right section
18:10.43X-FadeKhertan_n810: I'll give you a lit.. I'll look it up.
18:10.47X-Fade*list
18:10.51Khertan_n810johnx : it s still alpha
18:10.52thopiekarzap, if you mean the player.. i want to bypass every oss-player into alsa with a2dp to my bluetooth speakers
18:11.17zapthopiekar: that aoss program... it intercepts access to /dev/dsp ?
18:11.32thopiekarhas dsp something like a2dp??
18:11.41zapno
18:11.59zapDSP is just a number crunching device
18:12.02thopiekaraoss is a script from alsa-oss
18:12.08zapwith access to sound hardware, if I understand correctly
18:12.09Khertan_n810johnx : reccurent event time dont sync on google ... but it ll be fixed in a few days
18:12.31johnxKhertan_n810, i'll still play with it. :)
18:12.35thopiekarif you use you packagemanager in redpill, you will see it in your list..
18:12.40Khertan_n810and of course there is a home applet
18:12.57*** join/#maemo mardi__ (n=mardi_@host81-146-46-123.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net)
18:12.58zapwhat is redpill by the way... often referenced on tableeter forums?
18:13.10thopiekar"it emulates oss for alsa"
18:13.20qwerty12_N800enter the matrix
18:13.30zapqwerty12_N800: which matrix exactly :)
18:13.38zapthopiekar: well you don't have to emulate OSS here, mplayer can use alsa directly
18:13.39Khertan_n810i must go on ...
18:13.49GeneralAntilleszap, enables a few extra features in Application manager and lets you see stuff outside of User/
18:13.59Khertan_n810x-fade > i come back in twenty minute
18:14.02X-FadeKhertan_n810: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/making_application_packages.html#sections
18:14.02Khertan_n810s
18:14.06Khertan_n810thx
18:14.06zapGeneralAntilles: cool, and how one does it? :)
18:14.27pH5http://hildon-app-mgr.garage.maemo.org/redpill.html
18:14.31GeneralAntilleszap, google. :P
18:14.34zapIt allows to install any package that apt-search will show you?
18:14.59zappH5: thank you
18:15.13thopiekarzap, i know... i wanna emulate oss ( which is used by the "onboard" mediaplayer) to hear music on my bluetooth speakers with alsa+a2dp!
18:15.15thopiekar^^
18:15.30GeneralAntilleszap, it's largely pointless.
18:15.47GeneralAntilles95% of the stuff outside of User/ doesn't need to be installed by the user.
18:15.51zapGeneralAntilles: perhaps you're right, but it's a easter egg ;-)
18:15.53X-Fadethopiekar: Isn't it easier to just play your media via mplayer and a2dp ?
18:16.02zapexactly
18:16.04myscelb, sounds like i got a defective one, eh?
18:16.04qwerty12_N800When bt headset is connected, how is all sound intercepted by hfp/hsp?
18:16.11GeneralAntillesand everything else you might as well just install through apt-get since you'll be in xterm when you need it anyway.
18:16.13zapmysc: a defective what?
18:16.31myscn810. both the "t" and "u" produce a "tu" when clicked
18:16.48zapmysc: it seems you shouldn't drink coffee over the n810 ;-)
18:16.56*** join/#maemo thopiekar_ (n=thopieka@p57A16026.dip.t-dialin.net)
18:17.07myscit's my first boot! nothing was spilled
18:17.08thopiekaryes it is... but i want to feel the possibilities of my it^^
18:17.23johnxqwerty12_N800, If I understand right, it actually gets sent into the dsp, mixed, and send back out
18:17.31X-Fadethopiekar: You mean pain, agony and suffering? :)
18:17.41zapback out???
18:18.05johnxzap, I'm a little fuzzy on this process too
18:18.22qwerty12_N800johnx, ahh :(. hope lardman ever gets sbc-dsp workng
18:18.41zapjohnx: perhaps you're right, what if I play accelerated mp3, it should go to bt as well
18:18.42johnxqwerty12_N800, yes...though I tested the latest bluez on debian just a bit ago
18:18.50johnxzap, yes
18:18.55thopiekarno^^ fun of hacking out possibilities^^
18:19.21*** join/#maemo benh (n=benh@nat/ibm/x-945be12afd2ffc57)
18:19.41johnxzap and qwerty12_N800, don't take my word without a grain of salt...
18:19.55zapsure we don't, we're all trying to guess here :()
18:20.01qwerty12_N800sure :)
18:20.18zapopensource, doh :)
18:21.32johnxa lot of my picture of the situation comes from post #8 on this bug: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=667
18:22.25thopiekarthis would fix my problem:
18:22.26thopiekarhttps://garage.maemo.org/projects/dsp-sbc/
18:22.43thopiekarwho of you is working on it?
18:23.13zapI hope he's working on it
18:23.19zapand not chitchatting here ;-)
18:23.35johnxthopiekar, ironically, it probably wouldn't solve your problem with media player
18:23.59johnxthough I could be mistaken
18:23.59thopiekar!?
18:24.09zaphmm
18:24.16zapisn't this what you look for: http://1976th.com/bluetooth/2007/n800-simplified-instructions-for-adding-bluetooth-a2dp/
18:24.39johnxthopiekar, your problem is that media player very specifically tells gstreamer *exactly* what to do with audio
18:25.26qwerty12_N800loves nokia and their oss stuff. /sarcasm
18:25.30johnxthis sbc-dsp encoder would (at first) just be a way to accelerate the sbc encoding and then pass it off to also which give it to the headphones
18:25.31zapdoesn't it just use playbin?
18:25.39thopiekarbut dsp is the last before the hardware..
18:25.56johnxthopiekar, the dsp can do *anything you want*
18:26.08johnxif you tell the dsp "encode this sound and give it back to me"
18:26.13johnxthat's what it will do
18:26.23johnxzap, maybe? or maybe playbin2? I have no idea
18:26.45zapwell playbin will autodetect anything including the sink
18:26.57zapso if you remove the mp3dsp sink, you can put any other sink in place ;)
18:27.28johnxzap, compile a custom gstreamer module/sink?
18:27.30zapby the way, Nokia mplayer is closed source? It works horribly with non-latin tags
18:27.46GeneralAntillesNokia doesn't have an mplayer. . . .
18:27.47zapjohnx: yes, that's my first priority as soon as I get a bit of free time
18:27.55zapGeneralAntilles: I mean the builtin media player
18:27.56johnxzap, their media player is largely closed source
18:28.02zaplargely?
18:28.03GeneralAntilles"Media player"
18:28.04*** join/#maemo ustunozgur (n=ustun@88.232.26.150)
18:28.07*** join/#maemo Kt_ (n=Kirsat@96.243.196.167)
18:28.10thopiekaraahh i've got an other question, too...
18:28.18zapwell currently I'm interested in the part that reads the tags :)
18:28.19johnxzap, well some of its libraries are probably open
18:28.24thopiekarhow can i set up eth0 on my it
18:28.25thopiekar??
18:28.40johnxthopiekar, it doesn't have an ethernet port
18:29.01thopiekarthe asix.ko driver for my usb.adapter-to-lan works
18:29.02johnxthopiekar, the wireless device is called wlan0 and you can do networking over usb0
18:29.11*** join/#maemo megabyte405 (n=ryan@user-0cdvlum.cable.mindspring.com)
18:29.17thopiekar* thanks qwerty^^
18:29.18johnxthopiekar, ah ok. then you can set it up with ifconfig as root
18:29.25thopiekaraha..
18:29.36qwerty12_N800grab usblan and replace one of the included modules with the asix.ko :)
18:29.38johnxifconfig eth0 192.168.1.123
18:29.38thopiekarim using dhcp
18:29.43thopiekar..
18:29.49johnxthopiekar, udhcpc -i eth0
18:30.03thopiekarwhen i use usblan my it crashs
18:30.04thopiekar...
18:30.12thopiekarthen it crashs
18:30.12johnxcan't help you there
18:30.32qwerty12_N800Also to answer question from last time, there is no usbnet.ko, it's included in the kernel.
18:30.38thopiekaris then some thing bad with the driver
18:30.41thopiekar??
18:30.45qwerty12_N800thopiekar, i'll try repackiing usblan
18:30.56qwerty12_N800tommorow :/
18:30.57johnxthopiekar, maybe or it could be a power issue or it could be another bug
18:31.00thopiekarok
18:31.01*** join/#maemo playya (n=playya@p57B283FE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
18:31.13thopiekarit is...
18:31.28thopiekari had to plug in a powered hub
18:31.29thopiekar...
18:31.30johnxthopiekar, does it immediately turn off? does the blue light flash? does the screen slowly fade?
18:32.03thopiekarhmm mom
18:32.16zaphmm, what is the 'line' input in the mixer? does n810 have line-in ?
18:32.50thopiekarno but maybe on the mainchip..^^
18:33.18johnxzap, well it has a mic built-in and it can accept sound in through a wired headset
18:33.33johnxI haven't play around with those volume sliders while using either though
18:34.28zapOMG, the 'line' input affects actual sound output volume (touchscreen click volume for example)
18:34.55zapI don't understand what 'line' means here then
18:35.18johnxah line is obviously Nokian for "labeled incorrectly"
18:35.53zapsomebody should port alsamixer
18:36.00zapthis aumix looks a bit limited
18:36.25zapPCM affects volume and Line affects volume
18:36.35zapPCM much stronger
18:36.56*** join/#maemo red-zack (n=mk@dslb-084-062-058-081.pools.arcor-ip.net)
18:37.15johnxyou could probably unpack the debian armel .deb of alsamixer and just copy the binary and run it
18:37.23johnxI wouldn't install the deb though
18:37.41zapI tried that a couple of times, it doesn't work - wrong libc and so on
18:37.50*** part/#maemo ReKlipz (n=administ@137.48.130.85)
18:38.07zap/usr/lib/alsa-lib/libasound_module_ctl_bluetooth.so
18:38.14zapseems that bluetooth works at ALSA level too
18:38.23qwerty12_N800someone should  make some metapackages with symlinks for the debian pkgs...
18:38.45zapor better, recompile everything needed for n810 :)
18:38.55zapfor *maemo
18:38.55johnxor better, just get debian running
18:39.05johnxc'mon someone...it can't be that hard
18:39.19zapwith closed source drivers it is
18:39.29johnxit's over here: http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=Debian
18:39.36qwerty12_N800I do :). But i prefer maemo. I'm gonna look into qole's chroot stuff.
18:39.46qwerty12_N800use debian that is
18:40.06zapwell, debian is not exactly a table os
18:40.09zap*tablet
18:40.35zapI prefer specialized things like maemo
18:40.45johnxnot exactly...but the current tablet OS is just a stripped down, old version of debian
18:41.00zapbecause a full-blown linux is too heavy for such hardware
18:41.08johnxzap, it's really not
18:41.12zapyep, what I like is that it's stripped :)
18:41.33johnxthe GUI is the most important thing to have "optimized" I think
18:41.42GeneralAntillesIt is when you factor in 256MB of flash. :P
18:42.01johnxfair enough
18:42.13zapX11 for omap is opensource?
18:42.18johnxzap, yup
18:42.32johnxand has some neat patches too :)
18:42.36zapaha, so you can take nokia's kernel and nokia's dsp stuff
18:42.42zapand the rest should be easy to recompile :)
18:42.48johnxno need to recompile
18:42.59johnxDebian has an armel distro with 10,000+ packages
18:42.59qwerty12_N800just realised xomap = x omap after zap saying that. stupid me.
18:43.14GeneralAntillesgj, qwerty12_N800.
18:43.19GeneralAntilles*high-five*
18:43.24qwerty12_N800Thanks :p
18:43.57zapjohnx: but you can't live without maemo, microb, all thouse neat games etc, aren't you? :)
18:44.32qwerty12_N800I do prefer microb over webkit imo
18:44.53johnxzap, epiphany webkit is a lot faster than microb for some things
18:44.56johnxslower for others
18:45.15zapa full-blown browser is slow
18:45.23zapI've seen firefox on zaurus sl3100
18:45.27zapit's a horror
18:45.38johnxit's funny you should mention firefox
18:45.43johnxwhat do you think microb is?
18:45.49zapI know that
18:45.59zapI mean the full-blown firefox, not microb
18:46.04zapand not minimo
18:46.18johnxgah...minimo is almost worse
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18:46.32johnxbut really epiphany webkit is actually faster than microb in many situations
18:46.35zapalmost worse than what?
18:46.45johnxminimo is almost worse than full firefox3
18:46.48zapjohnx: you mean epiphany on PC or on ARM?
18:46.50*** join/#maemo l7 (n=l7@evil-wire.org)
18:46.58johnxon my very own n800
18:47.11zaphow you run it?
18:47.15johnxin Debian
18:47.16GeneralAntillesSomebody needs to slap a decent GUI on webkit.
18:47.23zapwith chroot?
18:47.29johnxzap, no
18:47.33johnxread the wiki I linked earlier
18:47.44qwerty12_N800remembers seeing old minimo os2007 versions
18:47.55GeneralAntillesshudders.
18:48.00johnxwell...kinda chroot in a way...but it's more of a pivot_root, then run debian's init
18:48.13GeneralAntillesI still think people were lying when they said they used that steaming pile of garbage.
18:48.15zapand how far it goes?
18:48.26johnxit boots, runs, is nice to use
18:48.29johnxI have XFCE running
18:48.40GeneralAntillesIt was so awesome, you screw up one little thing and you have to restart it to get input working again. <_<
18:48.48zapjohnx: what doesn't work?
18:48.52johnxpower saving needs some love...
18:49.07qwerty12_N800<3's power saving
18:49.08zapyep, there's no mce and systemui
18:49.08johnxGeneralAntilles, hey now... I didn't see a bug or a patch...
18:49.25GeneralAntillesTo minimo?
18:49.25johnxGeneralAntilles, aaah...minimo. I thought you meant debian
18:49.28GeneralAntillesI wouldn't know where to start. :P
18:49.56GeneralAntillesBut since you brought it up, debian sux uhlot n so doez johnz
18:50.27johnx:P
18:50.39johnxtoo tired to come up with something clever
18:50.44qwerty12_N800>.<
18:51.02qwerty12_N8001 - 0 GeneralAntilles
18:51.15GeneralAntillesI figure Debian is worth at least 100 points. :P
18:51.26GeneralAntillesSo, more like: 1 - 100 johnx
18:51.37johnxthanks :D
18:51.52johnxzap, the biggest problem I'm running into is figuring out how to turn on wifi power saving reliably
18:51.57GeneralAntilles'course, we gotta take points away from johnx for sucking
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18:52.04GeneralAntillesso, 1 - -1 GeneralAntilles
18:52.05GeneralAntilles:P
18:52.06zapjohnx: does dsp work?
18:52.20johnxyes...I borrowed Nokia's libs, etc
18:52.31qwerty12_N800evil muhahaha
18:52.45zapbut to be honest, I don't see any reason to use Debian
18:52.51johnxqwerty12_N800, says the hax0r del diablo himself :P
18:52.57zapI'd better concentrate on making Maemo a better place to live :)
18:53.09johnxzap, ask the 770 users how well that worked for them
18:53.15hrwre
18:53.18qwerty12_N800johnx, I still assert I didn't hack! :p
18:53.36zapjohnx: I see what you're meaning, but you'll be anyway stuck to Nokia kernel
18:53.44johnxzap, though to be honest I don't see why we can't have both.
18:53.50zapand this is the most important closed piece of code (the wifi stuff etc)
18:54.06zapjohnx: because having both will mean less polished every of them
18:54.13GeneralAntillesI hoping the 770 community support that's been talked about so much recently actually gets some traction from Nokia.
18:54.25qwerty12_N800is trying to make my version number say 666 to reflect diablo :p
18:54.36johnxzap, time I spend in Debian isn't coming out of some kind of "maemo hacking" time fund
18:55.07zapjohnx: perhaps for you, not so sure about others
18:55.14*** join/#maemo jegp (n=jegp@200.26.178.201)
18:55.26johnxzap, and what I was about to say is that the hildon libs are present in debian *as well* and some of my motivation for debian on the tablet is to get hildon to a wider audience, such as zaurus users
18:55.59GeneralAntillesI'm still waiting for a Hildon/Matchbox that's actually usable in Debian.
18:56.06zapjohnx: isn't making maemo available on zaurus a better thing?
18:56.09GeneralAntillesThe virtual keyboard input is the big tripping up point for me.
18:56.12zapor perhaps porting it to Angstrom
18:56.23johnxzap, maemo isn't all open source.
18:56.24GeneralAntilleszap, the important parts of maemo are in Debian
18:56.28GeneralAntillesSo that doesn't really make sense.
18:56.52zapAngstrom, Debian, ITOS... too much OSes for such a small audience
18:56.53johnxzap, yes. hildon (the core GUI libs for maemo) on zaurus is my goal
18:57.17GeneralAntillesFragmentation is a big issue in the mobile space
18:57.24zapyep
18:57.24GeneralAntillesbut maemo isn't something that'll solve that.
18:57.34zapeveryone's going to do His Own Ultimate OS
18:57.42johnxzap, I thought about that too. I saw how fractured the zaurus community got...but I think that anyone who's really interested in debian probably wasn't going to be spending lots of time on maemo to begine with
18:57.42zap(and hist grandmother, too)
18:57.43GeneralAntillesDebian + Matchbox/Hildon MIGHT be. ;)
18:57.48*** join/#maemo konttori (n=konttori@a88-113-140-60.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
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18:58.29GeneralAntillesHowdy, konttori.
18:58.30johnxan app that uses hildon for GUI stuff will work on Debian/N8x0 *and* maemo with very minor packaging tweaks
18:58.39konttorihi
18:59.18zapwith Maemo you have a team of full-time paid Nokia devs behind it
18:59.26johnxfor another year
18:59.40zapwith Debian you'll have a bunch of entusiasts, which will quit randomly
18:59.41keesjwith maemo you do have end-user portable quality
18:59.54johnxzap, anyways, this isn't an either or situation
19:00.03zapsure
19:00.10zapIt's just my thoughts
19:00.16johnxfair enough
19:00.57johnxpeople may stop developing debian but the source is out there for someone to pick it up if they care. Nokia *will* drop the OS dev for the N8x0...it's only a matter of when, and most of the source isn't out there
19:01.21zapI agree, but with Debian you have the same problem
19:01.26*** join/#maemo khertan (n=khertan@AAmiens-151-1-59-54.w83-192.abo.wanadoo.fr)
19:01.35zapwhen Nokia drops n810 support, you'll be stuck with kernel 2.6.21
19:01.42johnxzap, some of the same problem
19:01.43zapor whatever will be the last
19:01.52zapabsolutely same problem
19:01.57khertanjohnx: mcalendar is now available on extras-devel
19:02.07khertanX-Fade: thx for the validation
19:02.11zapno new kernel, no new dsp, no new mplayer
19:02.12johnxzap, there's more closed source in maemo than just hardware support, I hope you realize
19:02.26GeneralAntillesLots of the user-space stuff is closed.
19:02.27johnxzap, why no new mplayer?
19:02.27zapalas I don't know the full picture here
19:02.30qwerty12_N800"MPlayer 1.0rc1-maemo.26.n8x0 (C) 2000-2006 MPlayer Team CPU: ARM Internet Tablet OS version: 666"
19:02.39zapjohnx: I mean mediaplayer, not mplayer
19:02.47GeneralAntilles"Media player"
19:02.54johnxzap, I don't even use it on OS2008 :)
19:03.02zapwhat do you use?
19:03.07GeneralAntillesThere really isn't much point
19:03.11johnxI use mpd on debian and canola on os2008
19:03.12GeneralAntillesalthough the UPnP support is nice
19:03.14zapI'd use MediaBox but it has many bugs yet
19:03.19GeneralAntillesand stupid fast in Diablo.
19:03.19*** join/#maemo flo_lap (n=fuchs@f049002135.adsl.alicedsl.de)
19:03.49zapwell media player is end-user friendly, my wife can use it without much thought :)
19:04.00qwerty12_N800I'd better change the 666 before el diablo finds me.
19:04.03GeneralAntillesTry Canola?
19:04.04flo_lapre
19:04.22johnxkhertan, thanks...I'll look at it
19:04.22zapGeneralAntilles: I'll try but it looks heave
19:04.24zap*heavy
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19:05.04konttorizap: canola is nice.
19:05.19khertanjohnx: send me a mail if you have any remakrs
19:05.23khertanremarks
19:05.32johnxkhertan, will do
19:06.24konttoriAnyway, if nokia would stop supporting maemo, as someone said, the only thing not updateable really is the driver stack and it's good that no-one but really professionals are messing with radio related components anyway.
19:06.55konttoriAll of the rest can be easily patched upgraded and so on (well, the closed source applications would need to be replaced with opensource counterparts)
19:07.10johnxkonttori, the driver stack, the browser ui, media player, image viewer I think, backlight statusbar applet,
19:07.26zapjust tried canola, same partial problem with non-latin symbols in tags :(
19:07.27konttoriYeah, so it would be a little bit of work
19:07.32johnxrandom stuff like the control panel
19:07.51qwerty12_N800the browser ui  being closed always makes me laugh.
19:07.51konttorijohnx: and so? It's not like it would disappear
19:08.03johnxwell of course not
19:08.17konttoriYou only would need to make the parts that would need to be replaced.
19:08.35GeneralAntillesSpeaking of which, any answers on the wiki questions yet?
19:08.37johnxright...it's just a matter of how you replace them
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19:09.10johnxdo you take the parts that *are* open source and move on? or do you try and graft on open source bits to the current OS?
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19:10.30johnxit's something users will have to consider *eventually* but for now I'd like to keep my options open...and also poking around with debian on the n800 is partially just for my own entertainment
19:11.02zapsure, fun is the main thing in open source :)
19:11.11johnxglad we agree on something. :)
19:11.31zapI'm not really opposing you :)
19:11.38ricko73I had a good experience with the gps this weekend
19:12.02johnxzap, and I do think hildon is the way to go (even if it's not perfect)
19:12.11ricko73I don't know if I'm lucky or should be considered lucky, but it worked quite well with Roadmap
19:12.20johnxricko73, that's good news
19:12.22ricko73it took about 7 minutes to get an initial fix
19:12.26johnxI'll have to try roadmap out
19:12.29GeneralAntillesHa
19:12.37ricko73I then went into a store, turned off the gps.
19:12.59ricko73Returned to the car and turned it on.  The gps fix was re-acquired within 30 seconds
19:13.11zapjohnx: hildon is really the best UI for small pda-like devices I've ever seen...
19:13.20ricko73seemed to track well too
19:13.41Veggenjohn: agreed, the advantage with hildon is that it's close enough to gtk (and will get closer?) that it makes it easier to port applications...
19:14.11Veggen(ref the discussion about replacing the UI with something like canola)
19:14.29johnxthat would be a lot of work from the ground up O_o
19:14.39GeneralAntillesThoughtfix has been really disappointing lately.
19:14.42johnxbut yeah, hildon on zaurus is my next step
19:15.00GeneralAntillesThe whole "let's throw everything we've done out and make something new that totally sucks" line is tiresome.
19:15.08johnxI'd really like to see zaurus users get in on using and developing hildon apps
19:15.12zapjohnx: as part of Angstrom?
19:15.27johnxzap, some of the base libs are in angstrom already
19:15.56johnxinitially I'll probably work in zaurus/debian just because it's easier for me to build natively
19:16.06zapdoh :)
19:16.55johnxhey, I like and *use* angstrom...but it's easier for me to figure things out on a native system first
19:17.06zapdon't you fear you'll lose too much time on fighting with debian?
19:17.15johnxfighting where?
19:17.22johnxhmm?
19:17.29zapmaking it to work where it doesn't
19:17.32zapor doesn't too well
19:18.03johnxwell, for my purposes it's already *there* on zaurus and n800
19:18.10*** part/#maemo Saviq (n=Saviq@sawicz.net)
19:18.49zapdoes Canola have a bugtracker? I like it really, but I'd fill a bug report :)
19:19.31johnxhttps://garage.maemo.org/tracker/?atid=529&group_id=125&func=browse
19:19.43johnxbut also, look at the canola forum on itt
19:19.53GeneralAntillesBugging them directly in #canola is fun, too. :P
19:20.55zapaha
19:21.43keesjGeneralAntilles: I do value hildon for what is has achieved. for some reason I dislike (A)many things that evolve around gnome. It might be an atidute thing. whas come close to describing yhr frrling is "you all treat me like a (l)user"
19:23.00zapOMG Canola is Python!!!
19:23.03keesjI just realiszed it about a few hours ago
19:23.05zapcool
19:23.11keesjCanola rulez!!
19:23.12johnxGUI complexity and options are a fine line to tread...
19:23.26qwerty12_N800hates python
19:23.35johnxqwerty12_N800, ?! why?
19:23.48GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N800 is a h8ter.
19:23.49zappython is cool, you can fix bugs directly without needing to set up a dev env :)
19:23.55qwerty12_N800Prefer the speed of "native" apps
19:24.04keesjlike I would never write a tool that states this as goal  http://www.gnome.org/projects/NetworkManager/developers/design_goals.html
19:24.15qwerty12_N800plus I cannot figure out how to pkg them :p
19:24.20zapqwerty12_N800: it's like using hammers and nails forever, and hating drills and such
19:24.23elbI hope NM says its goal is sucking
19:24.25elbotherwise it fails hard
19:24.26qwerty12_N800stupid setup.py...
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19:24.59elboh, I totally agree with all those design principles
19:25.13keesjSimplicity,Visual Clarity and Automation. it does not fail at that
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19:25.38johnxkeesj, eh. if I need more complexity I'll dig into /etc/network/interfaces
19:25.54johnxbut there are a lot of cases where I'm perfectly happy to let network manager do it's thing
19:26.12qwerty12_N800h8's networkmanager too. I leave it disabled.
19:26.18johnxI guess that makes me a luser
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19:27.41zapohoh, just a bunch of .pyo files :) no py source
19:27.50keesjjohnx: I do use it (specialy for vpn)
19:28.15johnxand you like it, or dislike it?
19:28.20Saviqhi all, anyone here using mobile mythtv?
19:29.04GeneralAntilleszap, Canola isn't open.
19:29.38zapoh
19:29.44zapwhat a surprise :)
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19:29.51SaviqI like nm quite a lot, and 0.7 does gsm, too :)
19:30.07GeneralAntillesMeh, the INdT guys contribute a stupid amount of stuff to open source.
19:30.13GeneralAntillesPython is on maemo because of them.
19:30.20etrunkois the extras repo infinitely slow?
19:30.34etrunkoor is it just me?
19:30.44johnxetrunko, only for you. :P (but honestly yes, it has problems sometimes.)
19:30.48zapGeneralAntilles: this is good or bad?
19:30.52qwerty12_N800tries btterror on maemo...
19:31.08GeneralAntillesContributing to open source? I'd say it's a good thing.
19:31.29zapI just can't imagine what is a 'stupid amount'
19:31.44johnxah, "American internet slang"
19:32.01johnxstupid = mind blowingly huge
19:32.14johnx...in this case
19:32.24qwerty12_N800ezi
19:32.43zap:)
19:32.45qwerty12_N800have some ldn ones :p
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19:35.08johnxCanola is interesting because the part that's closed source is actually probably the part that has the least amount of interesting, reusable code, from what I can tell
19:36.10GeneralAntillesYeah, it's just the front-end, basically.
19:36.32GeneralAntilleslms, efl, etc, etc
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19:38.53RST38hqwerty: Here?
19:38.59qwerty12_N800Any "sis" unpackers exist for the tablet? Don't really feel like booting into windows...
19:39.08qwerty12_N800RST38h, yes :)
19:39.20RST38hqwerty: I have found the cause of 100+MB VSZ reading
19:39.43qwerty12_N800Great! :)
19:39.49RST38hqwerty: Not really
19:39.59RST38hIf you are eating, stop
19:40.27qwerty12_N800Not eating :p
19:41.17RST38hIt is Maemo File-Open dialog.
19:41.34RST38hYou can run pretty much ANY program using it, run "top" in a separate ssh
19:42.16RST38hThe invoke that fucking dialog and see program's VSZ grow. You don't need to actually open a file, just click Cancel - the dialog will disappear but the VSZ will stay above 100MB
19:42.48johnxwow...yet more reasons to hate it
19:42.54RST38hWhoever feels like filing a bug with Nokia, please do it
19:42.56qwerty12_N800wtf. you should steal fbreader open dialog
19:43.00RST38hI can't make myself do it, sorry
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19:43.31RST38hI have my own old-skool open dialog, but want to stay within style guidelines for Maemo
19:43.35*** part/#maemo f_mohr (n=f_mohr@dslb-084-059-026-227.pools.arcor-ip.net)
19:43.53qwerty12_N800The guy who made fbreader open dialog did brilliant job, never seen a faster one on my n800.
19:44.09RST38hUnfortunately, this misfeature does not explain the iNES slowdown problem
19:44.36GeneralAntillesYou found the bug, you get the honor of filing it. ;)
19:44.52johnxanyways, good talking to you all, but I need to catch some sleep. 'night
19:44.59qwerty12_N800night
19:45.25RST38hGeneral: it is 23:45, I had a day of work + commute
19:45.38GeneralAntillesSave it for the morning, then. :P
19:45.38RST38hThe maximum I can do is bitch about it on ITT
19:45.51qwerty12_N800RST38h, In Russia? :)
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19:47.40qwerty12_N800pǝɹoq sı
19:50.17RST38hzap: I am. Sorry, can't send private messages.
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19:50.52RST38hqwerty: I can't read what you have just written - it's probably Unicode and IRCII does not support it
19:51.19qwerty12_N800hehe, its flipped text saying i'm bored :)
19:51.35qwerty12_N800btw, xchat ftw ;)
19:52.55RST38hit's an ssh session to a box in Connecticut
19:53.10RST38hrunning xchat over it would be a bit too fat
19:53.19derfThat's what irssi is for.
19:53.58RST38hhas used ircii for ages, no way he is switching to a different client now
19:54.18qwerty12_N800Ah. I should install bitchx, ircii and weechat for fun again :p
19:54.34RST38hbitchx - definitely sucks
19:54.42*** join/#maemo dforsyth (n=dforsyth@129-2-175-85.wireless.umd.edu)
19:54.44RST38hirssi - may be good, do not know
19:54.49RST38hxchat - nice X client
19:54.50GeneralAntillesHa
19:54.55GeneralAntillesirssi is the best console client ever.
19:55.05RST38hhasn't tried
19:55.10glassirssi rocks
19:55.10GeneralAntillesYou're missing out.
19:55.23glassit's like ircii or bitchx with a good script..without having to mess with scripts
19:55.24RST38hwe do have it on the system, somebody uses it...a moment
19:55.35qwerty12_N800ircii is that fugly one afaik. before, i was misreading ircii with irssi
19:55.40GeneralAntilles<3's irssi-proxy.
19:56.06GeneralAntilles3 NITs, one nick.
19:56.07*** join/#maemo RST38bis (i=marat@trantor.komkon.org)
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19:56.22RST38bisumgh
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19:56.35qwerty12_N800OmG, RST38h was cloned!
19:56.38qwerty12_N800:o
19:56.52RST38bis<PROTECTED>
19:57.04qwerty12_N800which client?
19:57.05RST38bisdoes not show a nice condensed list like ircii
19:57.54RST38bisoh well
19:57.59RST38bisirssi
19:58.12qwerty12_N800irssi is da shit!
19:58.17qwerty12_N800:p
19:58.31RST38hlooks bitchxy
19:58.31*** join/#maemo ssvb (n=ssvb___@84-230-109-89.elisa-mobile.fi)
19:58.45RST38hnot as "eleet" as bitchx though :)
19:59.20glassirssi has themes
20:00.13*** join/#maemo jait (i=jait@otitsun.oulu.fi)
20:00.30qwerty12_N800weechat is probably the only prog i've seen that sets osso-xterms's title
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20:05.32zapqwerty12_N800: mc does it too
20:05.50zapbut both versions I've seen are hell buggy
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20:21.21Cptnodegardhttp://xkcd.com/424/
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20:40.22RST38h"By today's standards, all of the Convicts sent to Australia had only committed trivial crimes. The serious crimes, such as rape, murder, or impersonating an Egyptian, were punished with the death penality."
20:40.41RST38hqwerty: Have you impersonated an Egyptian lately?
20:41.14qwerty12_N800No :p
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20:41.32RST38hpity
20:41.32Stskeepswalk like an egyptian ;)
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20:42.48qwerty12_N800That's that  dodgy bangles song :p
20:43.10johnxthere was a good punk cover of it though
20:43.19Navizomg
20:43.20johnxI forgot who did it at the moment
20:43.53GeneralAntillesGo to bed.
20:43.57NaviYour sleep habits must be fux'd up, johnx
20:44.00qwerty12_N800lol
20:44.01johnxyeah
20:44.09johnxcomes from working the night shift :/
20:44.14Navi:P
20:44.57johnxplus I decided to work on my website...I can still get plenty of sleep before work tonight
20:45.05Naviwoo
20:45.06Navisecks
20:45.12qwerty12_N800I need to be getting me some sleep. 9:45 but i know I wont. This channel keeps me awake :p
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20:46.07Naviknocks qwerty12_N800 with a mallet
20:46.09NaviEh
20:46.21qwerty12_N800Ow.
20:46.28GnutoN810hi
20:46.40qwerty12_N800hi
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20:57.09halleyI've come across an SDL_ttf problem in pygame on OS2008, and it seems to match this I found on Google:  http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=446734
20:57.56halleyIt looks like the appropriate solution that people found was to go up to a later freetype2 build, but it appears I've got the latest known for OS2008.
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20:58.50kpelhi all
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21:02.16hrwhalley: and as freetype is part of system image you cannot update it ;(
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21:29.14halleyhrw, ick, okay... thanks for letting me know why it's so old.
21:29.48halleyhrw, have to code an inner loop that lets me render u'text with spaces' then.  :P
21:30.35halleyApparently r'text with spaces' works fine.  Just u'text with spaces' hits it.
21:32.13hrwhttps://wiki.maemo.org/index.php/Installation - experienced Maemo people needed for review
21:32.38hrwI will later add other systems so it will be split a bit
21:33.26halleyWas going to say, OSX and Win are a bit different.
21:34.15hrwbut some parts are same - first ones
21:34.27GeneralAntilleshrw, http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=Flashing_OS2008_With_Mac_OS_X_%28Console%29 might be useful for OS X.
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21:35.07RST38hDoes anyone know if setitimer(ITIMER_REAL,..) works on OS2008?
21:35.08hrwGeneralAntilles: feel free to add
21:35.19GeneralAntillesSetting up the HAVA right now. :P
21:35.24acydlordugh, so my roomates didnt pay their portion of the cable/internet bill and it got shut off
21:35.34acydlordnow i'm using my cell as a modem and wow it is slow
21:37.35hrwcan someone with garage account try to login into wiki?
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21:46.24acydlordmy garage login works fine
21:46.37hrwthx
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22:18.58|penguinbait|anyone in here running a 800 or 810 with 51-3 firmware, using USB host support??
22:19.06johnxyes
22:19.15practisevoodooany got claws mail working with gmail?
22:19.26johnxhasn't
22:19.41|penguinbait|I have a 800 and 810 neither will go into host mode
22:19.41johnxbut then again, I've never tried claws
22:19.56|penguinbait|I have a 810 at 42-19 and it works fine
22:20.19johnx|penguinbait|, interesting. I know a lot of other people are using usb host on 51-3
22:20.32GeneralAntillesIt's not the firmware
22:20.42GeneralAntillesMine goes into host just fine on 51-3 (or 50-2)
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22:21.02|penguinbait|maybe boot from SD issue, I should try from flash
22:21.11|penguinbait|GA are you runing from flash?
22:21.35GeneralAntillesAt the moment, no, but I WAS
22:22.04balrog-kunhow do you stop maemo from filling the card with core dumps again?
22:22.08|penguinbait|800 or 810 GA
22:22.16GeneralAntilles800
22:22.26GeneralAntillesbalrog-kun, delete the directory.
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22:23.49balrog-kunGeneralAntilles: oh. thanks
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22:26.27|penguinbait|It works if I am booting from flash on my 810, WTF?
22:27.51johnx|penguinbait|, that's even weirder
22:28.00|penguinbait|???
22:28.04|penguinbait|testing 800 now
22:28.09johnxwell, it works for me in debian just fine
22:28.32johnxall the usb stuff is compiled into the kernel, so it shouldn't matter where you boot from
22:28.48practisevoodoocome on ppl, claws mail with gmail? anyone?
22:28.54johnxanyways, does dmesg say anything interesting right after you do echo host > /sys/..../mode
22:29.11GeneralAntillespractisevoodoo, just use Modest?
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22:30.01practisevoodoonot heard of that one
22:30.29|penguinbait|whynot use the webmail, it seems like the easiest solution?
22:30.41GeneralAntilleshttp://modest.garage.maemo.org/
22:30.50johnxmodest rocks :)
22:31.24practisevoodoo'cause i would like to have the messages download automatically while i have internet for easy reading when i dont
22:31.39|penguinbait|and the n800 works from flash too???
22:31.58johnx|penguinbait|, yes. it has. both keyboard and usb-stick
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22:32.07johnxI'm on the diablo kernel right now though
22:33.14GeneralAntillesanybody thought about an enhancement request for SSU and custom kernel/initfs yet?
22:33.47johnxGeneralAntilles, I'm not sure if it's worth it
22:34.17|penguinbait|yes john
22:34.21johnxjust replace flash-and-reboot with a a script that does "exec true"
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22:34.55GeneralAntillesThat's no fun. :P
22:35.03GeneralAntillesI wonder how much of the ssu stuff will be open.
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22:48.18|penguinbait|can anyone confirm, (besides debian) that usb host mode is working on 51-3 firmware, when booting from SD?
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22:54.58|penguinbait|WTF, now they are both working
22:55.02|penguinbait|$%#@%^&%
22:55.07KotCzarny:)
22:56.36GeneralAntillesPEBKAC :P
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22:59.00jsidhu2im not good with c/or gtk, and would like to develop a appliaction that i can run via a browser.. but I wont have network or internet connectivity, so it needs to run localy. Maybe with apache + php.. so before i go and buy this tablet, can you guys tell me if I can run apache + php on these tablets? will the 770 do this? or do i need the newer 810? what alternatives should i look at? I dont want to develop in c/gtk, dev time is too long for me to
22:59.44KotCzarnymaybe pygtk then?
23:00.00jsidhu2KotCzarny: ive never done anything with python either..
23:00.05KotCzarnyhmm
23:00.45KotCzarnyi think there is apache and php for maemo, though i don't know anything about 770
23:01.09jsidhu2do you have a link to the apache/php project for maemo?
23:01.34KotCzarnynope, but i believe google will return a link :)
23:01.36GeneralAntillesjsidhu2, there's a magic bullet for everything maemo related. Google: "<thing you're looking for> maemo"
23:01.56jsidhu2yes, been looking, havnt found it with that magic bullet yet
23:02.02jsidhu2but my maghic bullet was n770
23:02.04jsidhu2let me try maemo
23:02.17GeneralAntillesThat's not a magic bullet.
23:02.24GeneralAntillesThere's no such thing as an "n770". ;)
23:02.36KotCzarnywell, you would be better of using os200[678]
23:02.42KotCzarnyinstead of n770
23:02.54KotCzarnyalso, 770 has no n before number
23:03.02jsidhu2ok
23:03.42KotCzarnyon a 770 memory can be a problem a little
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23:04.09jsidhu2im not commited to a tablet yet.. but it would be nice to use the 770.. i already own one but havnt used in a few months
23:04.31KotCzarnyso you can test it yourself, good
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23:04.31KotCzarny:)
23:05.06jsidhu2yeah but i havnt found anything that indicates that apache/php runs well on these tablets, so i decided to ask the users of #maemo
23:05.53jsidhu2..maybe ive been looking for the wrong keyword
23:06.08KotCzarnyyou would be running browser + php, that could be a little heavy memory wise for 770
23:06.18GeneralAntilleshttp://maemo.org/downloads/product/apache/
23:06.26GeneralAntillesFirst result for 'apache maemo' . . .
23:06.29jsidhu2KotCzarny: how about the newer tablets? 800 or 810?
23:06.34jsidhu2GeneralAntilles: needs php
23:06.41KotCzarnya little better i think
23:06.45NaviApache is too heavy to use well on the NITs :|
23:06.47KotCzarnybecause it has 128mb of mem
23:06.54KotCzarnynavi: not true
23:06.59KotCzarnyapache itself isn't heavy
23:07.00KotCzarny:)
23:07.02AStormI wonder if maemo-generated public keys are vulnerable to that Debian OpenSSL bug
23:07.05jsidhu2so what do you guys think... should i rethink my route?
23:07.14GeneralAntillesI would.
23:07.19GeneralAntillesIt's not a very good route
23:07.22KotCzarnyjsidhu2: just try it
23:07.26jsidhu2GeneralAntilles: what would you recommend?
23:07.29KotCzarnyall you have to do is to install 2 packages
23:07.30GeneralAntillessacrificing a lot to maybe save a little time programming side
23:07.32GeneralAntillesPython
23:07.32KotCzarny:)
23:07.40jsidhu2KotCzarny: yeah, i'll look
23:07.44jsidhu2GeneralAntilles: pyGTK?
23:07.45KotCzarnythen you will see if it's fast enough for you
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23:08.29GeneralAntillesKhertan has a nice little on-device programming suite for Python, even. http://www.khertan.net/
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23:09.29jsidhu2yeah but if i have to spend the time to learn py, might as well get started with gtk
23:09.50jsidhu2i thought i might be able to get away with php and a local server
23:09.58KotCzarnyjsidhu2: just try it then
23:10.04jsidhu2so anyways, i still dont see any php packages
23:10.25KotCzarnyjsidhu2: google for: php <your os version>
23:10.35jsidhu2ok, will do
23:10.37jsidhu2thanks fellas
23:10.39GeneralAntillesMaybe try Vala, jsidhu2.
23:11.14jsidhu2vala?
23:11.14KotCzarnyjsidhu2: for a lighter browser try links2
23:11.27AStormKotCzarny: is maemo vulnerable to Debian OpenSSL debackle?
23:11.33KotCzarnyastorm: i don't know
23:11.45GeneralAntilleshttp://arstechnica.com/journals/linux.ars/2007/09/02/vala-high-level-programming-with-less-fat
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23:11.47KotCzarnyastorm: any test script?
23:11.51AStormsimple
23:12.00AStormgenerate a key and check if it's on the blacklist
23:12.06AStormhttp://www.metasploit.com/users/hdm/tools/debian-openssl/
23:12.20GeneralAntilleshttp://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/36896?page=last
23:12.23jsidhu2GeneralAntilles: looks good, thanks man
23:13.08jsidhu2ahaha
23:13.21jsidhu2"turns out distro is actually just windows vista with a few custom themes"
23:14.01AStormNah, just some stupid developers who shouldn't *ever* touch any security-related code.
23:14.09AStormthey can't read it
23:16.07AStormFortunately, all my keys were generated on Gentoo and none on any Debian derivative.
23:16.30KotCzarnyi think slackware isn't a debian derivative too
23:16.31KotCzarny:>
23:16.38AStormyes, it isn't
23:16.48AStormand it doesn't have the bug
23:17.03jsidhu2hey, nginx/php might work
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23:21.32KotCzarnyhrm
23:21.45KotCzarnyit says pass, but i need some debian host to test if the script works
23:22.01AStormfirst, check the version of OpenSSL
23:22.15AStormif it's <0.9.8, you're 99,9% safe
23:23.08KotCzarnylibssl.so.0.9.7
23:23.11KotCzarnyon n800
23:23.29KotCzarnyheh
23:23.30KotCzarnyok
23:23.33KotCzarnyscipt works
23:23.44KotCzarnyi have tested on my unis server
23:23.45KotCzarny;)
23:23.53KotCzarnyTEST_RESULT_RSA: fail
23:23.56KotCzarnyTEST_RESULT_DSA: fail
23:24.02AStormwhich has broken OpenSSL? :P
23:24.03KotCzarnyand pass for n800/slackware
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23:24.08AStormwhee
23:24.19AStorma pity the bug isn't in FreeBSD
23:24.23KotCzarnyNokia-N800-51-3:/usr/lib# ssh -v
23:24.23KotCzarnyOpenSSH_4.7p1  Debian-2.maemo2, OpenSSL 0.9.7e 25 Oct 2004
23:24.30AStormwould love a root on our main boxes
23:24.55KotCzarny[root@x32 19:23:22 /tmp/debian_ssh_scan_v4]# ssh -v
23:24.55KotCzarnyOpenSSH_4.7p1, OpenSSL 0.9.8g 19 Oct 2007
23:25.30KotCzarnyand: OpenSSH_4.3p2 Debian-9 on that debian box
23:25.36AStorm:>
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23:27.04KotCzarnydo you want me to test some ip?
23:27.05KotCzarny:)
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