| 00:01.13 | jldiaz | rafael_, I'm going to bed, sorry |
| 00:01.35 | rafael_ | Ok :( |
| 00:01.37 | jldiaz | did you have any progress with the ps command? |
| 00:01.52 | rafael_ | Thanks to help |
| 00:02.13 | rafael_ | no, this is result of ps, "rafael 6458 0.0 0.0 3020 764 pts/0 R+ 20:57 0:00 grep ssh" |
| 00:02.17 | jldiaz | can you see if you have the folder /etc/ssh ? |
| 00:03.04 | rafael_ | yes, I have :) |
| 00:03.13 | jldiaz | and if it contains the files ssh_host_dsa_key ssh_host_key ssh_host_rsa_key ? |
| 00:03.31 | jldiaz | among others |
| 00:04.31 | jldiaz | if yes, as root, issue the command: /etc/init.d/ssh start |
| 00:04.39 | jldiaz | this should start your sshd server |
| 00:04.41 | rafael_ | no, only "moduli" and "ssh_config" |
| 00:04.45 | jldiaz | oh |
| 00:04.49 | jldiaz | so this is the problem |
| 00:05.14 | jldiaz | apparently the script which installs sshd did not set up correctly the server |
| 00:05.15 | rafael_ | how I try? reinstall the ssh package? |
| 00:05.46 | rafael_ | wait, this is on Ubuntu right? or on Device? |
| 00:05.48 | rafael_ | :S |
| 00:05.56 | jldiaz | all on device |
| 00:06.49 | jldiaz | on ubuntu you only require the command ssh, not the server |
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| 00:08.04 | rafael_ | ok |
| 00:08.50 | rafael_ | I understand wrong, sorry again |
| 00:09.02 | rafael_ | on device, this folder no exists |
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| 00:09.30 | rafael_ | I need of any repositories to install openssh? |
| 00:14.52 | jldiaz | no |
| 00:15.05 | jldiaz | just try as root: |
| 00:15.19 | jldiaz | apt-get install openssh |
| 00:17.16 | rafael_ | it return "couldn't find package openssh" |
| 00:19.00 | rafael_ | and, it order that I run "apt-get update", and I run many times, and the return is the same |
| 00:19.51 | jldiaz | you need the repository "maemo" |
| 00:20.15 | jldiaz | I thought it was standard |
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| 00:22.32 | jldiaz | http://repository.maemo.org/ |
| 00:22.43 | rafael_ | uhm |
| 00:22.47 | rafael_ | just this |
| 00:23.11 | rafael_ | I am listed only "Maemo Extras" |
| 00:23.12 | jldiaz | you can add it throuh the app manager |
| 00:23.36 | rafael_ | yaeh, I know! ;) |
| 00:24.03 | jldiaz | not extras, only maemo |
| 00:25.20 | jldiaz | free non-free collections |
| 00:25.41 | rafael_ | ok, "maemo Extras" was standard, I can Delete? or only add "maemo" on "http://repository.maemo.org/"? |
| 00:26.00 | jldiaz | (only free is required for openssh, but better leave both) |
| 00:26.19 | jldiaz | better add a new one |
| 00:27.01 | jldiaz | if you delete a reposigory from which you installed somethin, you break the upgrade mechanism |
| 00:30.11 | rafael_ | Yes, I know, only thought in my case was not necessary, but I leave it so good there, anyway now it makes no difference |
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| 00:31.32 | rafael_ | (I do not know how to express laughter in English in Brazil is "haha" or something like) |
| 00:31.34 | rafael_ | :D |
| 00:31.38 | rafael_ | haha |
| 00:31.47 | rafael_ | Its worked! |
| 00:31.49 | rafael_ | :D |
| 00:32.43 | jldiaz | haha |
| 00:32.54 | jldiaz | jaja in spanish |
| 00:33.11 | rafael_ | very very, thanks, I never imagined it would be a repository my problem |
| 00:33.13 | KotCzarny | jaja means 'eggs' in polish |
| 00:33.14 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 00:33.26 | jldiaz | XD |
| 00:33.32 | rafael_ | yeah, the "jaja" I know! :P |
| 00:34.01 | rafael_ | I have speaked with argentines |
| 00:34.31 | rafael_ | "eggs"? hahahahahahaha |
| 00:34.53 | rafael_ | I did not mind |
| 00:34.53 | jldiaz | jaja is pronounced like haha, but with a stronger h, like th x in mexico or TeX |
| 00:35.24 | KotCzarny | in polish it's pronounced like yaya |
| 00:36.04 | jldiaz | so no confusion wirh eggs when a spaniard is laughing :D |
| 00:36.15 | rafael_ | si si, mi amygo, yo coñeso un poco de spañol, pero, no mucho! |
| 00:36.29 | *** part/#maemo mibus (n=mibus@eth11081.sa.adsl.internode.on.net) |
| 00:36.35 | rafael_ | aeuhuiaehuiaehae |
| 00:36.50 | rafael_ | this is laughter too |
| 00:37.06 | KotCzarny | chihuahua? |
| 00:37.07 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 00:37.18 | jldiaz | well, now really I'm going to sleep |
| 00:37.39 | rafael_ | indeed in the Brazilian Portuguese, anything that has not entered sense is laugh! : P |
| 00:37.41 | rafael_ | haha |
| 00:37.47 | jldiaz | good night (at least here) |
| 00:38.19 | rafael_ | sorry for disturb dear fried |
| 00:38.23 | rafael_ | *friend |
| 00:38.44 | rafael_ | good night |
| 00:38.52 | jldiaz | I'm feeling fried too |
| 00:39.01 | rafael_ | thank you make much again |
| 00:39.24 | rafael_ | hahaha |
| 00:39.28 | jldiaz | youre welcome |
| 00:39.34 | rafael_ | :D |
| 00:39.36 | rafael_ | thanks |
| 00:40.18 | rafael_ | maybe one day I also help others as you, for now I only develop ... :) |
| 00:40.28 | rafael_ | good night |
| 00:43.44 | rafael_ | I am going too |
| 00:44.45 | rafael_ | I'm tired, although not so late here in brazil |
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| 00:44.56 | rafael_ | thanks all that help me :) |
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| 00:45.20 | Proteous | hagalahaglalhahgla |
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| 00:58.01 | benh | hrm... having a hard time trying to find the source for maemo-pc-connectivity |
| 00:58.29 | benh | trying to figure out if it does something to dnsmasq when hooking up the USB networking |
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| 01:06.57 | benh | how do one setup a DNS for the DEFAULT connection ? |
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| 01:18.32 | pupnik | Wow asus claims 1 million Eee PCs sold. |
| 01:18.46 | pupnik | we gotta make teh nokias even bettur :) |
| 01:20.40 | Grackle | They're not really competing, are they? |
| 01:20.56 | pupnik | yes true |
| 01:21.15 | pupnik | perhaps a subset of consumers will be weighing the two vs each other |
| 01:21.28 | Grackle | I guess if I carried an eee around, I might not carry the n800. I'm not sure. |
| 01:21.53 | Grackle | got an IT because it is pocket sized and doesn't require a bag to carry it in |
| 01:22.21 | pupnik | yes pocket sized is a different world |
| 01:22.23 | Grackle | I'd like an eee or something similar, though. They look awfully fun. |
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| 01:23.02 | pupnik | yes looking at my thinkpad, i might be just as well off with eee. just runs linux anyway |
| 01:25.09 | Grackle | I bought a fairly hefty laptop because I needed something portable, but didn't have money to get a decent desktop as well. I stand by that decision, but now that I have a nice desktop, I'd like a more portable laptop. |
| 01:25.18 | Grackle | What thinkpad do you have? |
| 01:25.34 | KotCzarny | x32 |
| 01:25.35 | KotCzarny | :> |
| 01:25.40 | KotCzarny | the best one |
| 01:25.55 | KotCzarny | though i like x30 too |
| 01:26.39 | Grackle | I think I'd get a T40 if I were to buy a thinkpad |
| 01:26.47 | WormFood | T42 |
| 01:26.53 | KotCzarny | name t40 features you need |
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| 01:27.02 | WormFood | I have a T30 (I'm using it now)...great machine! |
| 01:27.25 | KotCzarny | http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:X32 |
| 01:28.19 | Grackle | KotCzarny: I like how solid thinkpads are. The t40 is affordable, has well supported hardware, and doesn't contain a battery-gobbling core duo like the t69s |
| 01:28.22 | Grackle | t60s even |
| 01:28.27 | Grackle | Have a better suggestion? |
| 01:28.31 | KotCzarny | x40 |
| 01:28.38 | KotCzarny | the best in battery life |
| 01:28.43 | KotCzarny | ulv version of course |
| 01:28.58 | SenileBob | I'm looking to develop a custom application for the N800/810, I need to get hold of someone who knows their stuff who can help me out. Anyone interested in doing some programming work for me? :) |
| 01:29.20 | Grackle | the x40 "lacks" a touchpad :| |
| 01:29.29 | KotCzarny | grackle: i hate touchpads |
| 01:29.29 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 01:29.51 | Grackle | Yeah. Seems like people go one way or the other. |
| 01:29.54 | KotCzarny | my fingers get wet often |
| 01:30.05 | KotCzarny | so touchpads stop working for me then |
| 01:30.29 | Grackle | I've never had such problems with my hp touchpad. It works quite well, even if I lick my finger (ew). |
| 01:30.44 | Grackle | But I have had older laptops with horrific touchpads |
| 01:30.54 | Grackle | I think the technology has come a long way.. |
| 01:31.00 | KotCzarny | probably |
| 01:31.11 | KotCzarny | but i still prefer point stick way |
| 01:31.22 | KotCzarny | it's less distracting when i'm typing |
| 01:31.27 | Grackle | In any case, I have seen people use the stick point quite efficiently, and it looks nice for those who are used to it. |
| 01:31.53 | Grackle | feels like a fish out of water if he's stuck with the trackpoint thing |
| 01:32.05 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 01:32.19 | KotCzarny | you should try 'power dome' cap sometimes |
| 01:32.22 | KotCzarny | hum |
| 01:32.54 | Grackle | If it weren't for web pages, I wouldn't need a mouse. |
| 01:32.57 | Grackle | Damn you, internet. |
| 01:33.02 | KotCzarny | ah, sorry |
| 01:33.05 | KotCzarny | it's 'soft rim' |
| 01:33.09 | KotCzarny | http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/VLAR-443LTU.html |
| 01:33.12 | KotCzarny | third one |
| 01:33.24 | KotCzarny | provides the best feeling |
| 01:33.29 | KotCzarny | and is easiest to move |
| 01:33.40 | Grackle | Hmm, I didn't realize they came in different flavors. |
| 01:33.47 | Grackle | I think my friend has the soft dome one |
| 01:34.05 | Grackle | I'm sure I'd get used to it if I gave it a chance. |
| 01:34.09 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 01:34.15 | KotCzarny | they are interchangeable too |
| 01:34.22 | Grackle | I see. |
| 01:38.16 | pupnik | SenileBob: feel free to ask questions. Check topic for links. And tell about your project. |
| 01:39.08 | pupnik | think i might order some of those softrims |
| 01:39.24 | pupnik | SenileBob: you doing that home automation thing? |
| 01:42.56 | SenileBob | yes pupnik, thats the one :) |
| 01:43.19 | SenileBob | I found a programmer, but turns out he didnt have the time |
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| 02:17.40 | unixSnob | SenileBob, what's the home automation idea? To use a NIT to control your lights? |
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| 02:20.02 | SenileBob | Something like that :) |
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| 02:20.48 | SenileBob | basically, control a whole house automation system (lighting, security, AV, heating/cooling, etc) - possibilities are endless |
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| 02:21.20 | unixSnob | very cool.. and are the switches x10? |
| 02:21.38 | SenileBob | not x10 - all Crestron hardware |
| 02:21.46 | SenileBob | high end automation |
| 02:21.59 | SenileBob | used in multi-million dollar residences, company board rooms, etc |
| 02:22.05 | unixSnob | I became an x10 fanatic (for a couple weeks), then one of the switches melted |
| 02:22.13 | unixSnob | I don't trust x10 |
| 02:22.18 | SenileBob | either do i ;) |
| 02:22.27 | unixSnob | haven't heard of crestron |
| 02:22.29 | SenileBob | Crestron on the other hand - very reliable stuff |
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| 02:22.53 | SenileBob | its not something the average home owner uses, used mainly in high-end stuff |
| 02:22.56 | SenileBob | www.crestron.com |
| 02:23.49 | unixSnob | I like x10's prices.. too bad the stuff is a fire hazard, and flakey |
| 02:24.01 | SenileBob | yep. Crestron aint cheap... |
| 02:24.02 | unixSnob | I've had some switches simply die |
| 02:24.14 | SenileBob | are you getting my PM's? |
| 02:24.35 | unixSnob | ah, sorry didn't notice |
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| 02:47.18 | SenileBob | Is there any way to store a website link, like a favourite, in the main menu on N800, and force the web browser to start in full screen mode? |
| 02:48.08 | SenileBob | and also to have the N800 automatically load a webpage in full screen mode when its turned on? |
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| 03:38.28 | __raFaeL__ | maemo-br |
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| 04:17.08 | lopz | night |
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| 04:48.37 | benh | hrm |
| 04:48.50 | benh | so bluez-utils on maemo doesn't contain any of the utils in /usr/bin ? |
| 04:48.54 | benh | like pand is missing... |
| 04:48.58 | benh | any idea what's up ? |
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| 05:06.49 | benh | ok, found |
| 05:06.54 | benh | stupid new network services |
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| 05:43.42 | pupnik | benh: bluez is deprecated now, yes? |
| 05:44.08 | benh | well, not really, the code still comes from bluez |
| 05:44.29 | benh | but yeah, they deprecated good ol pand in favor of the new dbus based garbage |
| 05:46.06 | benh | well, it may not be garbage per-se but it's a pain in the neck :-) |
| 05:46.14 | mibus | what part of it aren't you happy with? having to use d-bus? |
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| 05:54.21 | benh | mibus: I like ranting :-) |
| 05:54.29 | benh | mibus: but yeah, having to use dbus |
| 05:54.48 | benh | mibus: I find it a pain in the neck, but that's just personal opinion |
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| 05:54.58 | tsukasa | yo |
| 05:55.11 | benh | mibus: nothing as simple as pand --help to figure out what you need to do |
| 05:55.16 | tsukasa | is the svn of the browser faster then whats builtin |
| 05:55.27 | tsukasa | because the built in is slower then all fuck |
| 05:55.34 | mibus | benh: thanks for the info :) |
| 05:55.37 | tsukasa | i tried to load my netvibes homepage and it died |
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| 05:56.03 | Navi | The built in one lacks desperately needed optimizations |
| 05:56.04 | Navi | >_> |
| 05:56.12 | Navi | Especially to the JavaScript core |
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| 05:56.30 | tsukasa | so the svn is faster? |
| 05:56.53 | benh | I'm totally new to maemo (and in fact to gtk etc... ) so I'm going to ask around the lazy way ... but is there any piece of code you suggest I look at to |
| 05:56.59 | Navi | tsukasa, should be |
| 05:57.01 | benh | do a control panel and to scan bluetooth devices ? |
| 05:57.26 | benh | before I waste days digging in docos and .h files |
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| 06:07.42 | johnx | benh, I think "personal menu" has a pretty nice control panel |
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| 06:08.05 | johnx | as for scanning bluetooth, I don't know any open source software that does that with dbus stuff |
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| 06:09.20 | mibus | I don't know if it uses bluetooth, but in GNOME there's a bluetooth applet that can browse for devices |
| 06:09.51 | mibus | I'm fairly certain that there's a reusable drop-down gtk selector widget somewhere that allows choosing of bluetooth devices, again not sure if it's dbusified |
| 06:10.13 | mibus | (I'm picking up my n810 next week, so no maemo, but I've done gtk+ stuff in the past) |
| 06:19.48 | benh | johnx: ok, I'll dig, thanks |
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| 06:20.09 | benh | mibus: ok, I'll google around and look |
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| 06:20.42 | johnx | personal menu is here: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/personal-menu/ |
| 06:20.54 | benh | johnx: yeah, I found it, but thanks |
| 06:21.34 | johnx | ah, ok |
| 06:22.04 | benh | now we'll see if I manage to find enough time to actually do anything... might take the laptop on the plane |
| 06:22.07 | benh | next week |
| 06:22.18 | benh | though I don't think I'm going to do BT scanning in flight :-) |
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| 06:23.20 | johnx | ahaha, I remember messing with bt at work during lunch and accidentally bringing up "connection attempt, enter passkey" on 3 computers and a couple phones :D |
| 06:23.49 | mibus | I really wonder about the range of bluetooth, given I can often see phones that aren't mine, when I'm in my loungeroom |
| 06:24.00 | mibus | (and it's a full house, not a flat or unit, no shared walls, ...) |
| 06:24.11 | benh | yeah, I can see phones from another level of the building here |
| 06:24.27 | johnx | it's especially crazy on trains |
| 06:24.40 | benh | the n810 BT antenna is good ... unlike the GPS one |
| 06:24.52 | benh | at first I though the GPS was busted ... |
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| 06:25.32 | mibus | benh: http://www.hadess.net/2007/03/return-of-bluetooth-stuff.html |
| 06:25.36 | benh | I pretty much have to acquire the sattelites outside of the car in fact |
| 06:25.44 | benh | then I can go in and it works once it's locked |
| 06:25.50 | benh | mibus: thanks |
| 06:25.55 | mibus | benh: my pleasure |
| 06:26.07 | mibus | benh: I knew reading planet gnome every day for several years would pay off eventually ;) |
| 06:26.51 | mibus | benh: how does the n810 deal with maps these days? do you have to buy them, or are the openstreemaps maps OK? |
| 06:27.02 | mibus | benh: and does it do route calculations with them? |
| 06:27.12 | benh | it came with a commercial map for .au |
| 06:27.22 | benh | but for navigation, you have to pay for wayfinder |
| 06:27.31 | benh | about $150AUD for 3 years iirc for australia |
| 06:27.35 | benh | (you pay per region) |
| 06:27.35 | mibus | benh: cool (I'm in SA) |
| 06:27.42 | benh | I'm in ACT |
| 06:27.52 | benh | I haven't toyed with the open stuff yet |
| 06:27.54 | mibus | benh: you must be the only person there with an n810! :) |
| 06:28.10 | mibus | benh: there seem to be so few places that have them here |
| 06:28.13 | benh | heh, found it at dick smith in sydney |
| 06:28.22 | benh | they are trickling in it seems |
| 06:28.46 | benh | I didn't expect to find one in fact, that was a surprise. A bit on the pricey side of things tho .. about $650 |
| 06:28.48 | benh | (AUD) |
| 06:29.06 | benh | now, I need to find a good BT keyboard bcs the internal one sucks :-) |
| 06:29.33 | benh | I should read planet gnome ... funnily enough, I've never done anything with GUI on linux |
| 06:29.50 | mibus | benh: I ordered through Tandy, paying & picking upnext weekend |
| 06:29.57 | benh | I have little clues about either GTK or QT, though i've done my share of GUI stuff on MacOS (classic) in the old days |
| 06:30.05 | mibus | benh: I'm paying $700 including a longer warranty |
| 06:30.09 | benh | and all GUI toolkits generally share the same basic principles |
| 06:30.29 | mibus | benh: I have an apple BT keyb that I'm hoping to use (collecting dust ATM) |
| 06:30.34 | benh | so It's a good excuse for me to start to look at GTK :-) |
| 06:30.43 | mibus | I really like Gtk+, but I've not had a huge amount of experience |
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| 06:30.52 | benh | well, Apple BT is not quite the deal to travel with, I'm hoping something in between |
| 06:30.55 | mibus | (no QT, but I've done Gtk+/Cocoa/Swing) |
| 06:31.00 | mibus | yeah it's a giant keyboard |
| 06:31.09 | benh | when I'm home, I'll look into using synergy from the desktop :-) |
| 06:31.23 | mibus | yeah I want to use it for writing notes in meetings |
| 06:31.29 | mibus | anyway, got to run off for a sec :) |
| 06:31.32 | benh | I've only looked at Cocoa quickly, back when I had Rhaspody DR1 :-) |
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| 06:44.40 | mibus | b |
| 06:45.02 | mibus | benh: I really liked Cocoa. Never used it for any "real" apps, but the interface builder was really easy to use |
| 06:45.20 | mibus | benh: and I liked ObjC too, once I got used to the syntax |
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| 06:46.07 | benh | ObjC is interesting, though yeah, the syntax is somewhat alien |
| 06:46.07 | mibus | benh: Swing was just a nightmare. The only way it ended up usable for me, was use layout widgets to act like hbox & vboxes do in Gtk |
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| 06:48.06 | mibus | benh: I'm just dying to get my hands on my n810, after waiting all this time |
| 06:48.23 | mibus | benh: I used to do Gtk+ stuff on PDAs back maybe 2001-2003 |
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| 07:08.12 | SenileBob | benh, mibus: Another aussie here. Any of you guys developers for Maemo? |
| 07:08.30 | mibus | SenileBob: Alas, no |
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| 07:08.48 | SenileBob | dang |
| 07:08.49 | mibus | SenileBob: I'm still waiting for my n810, but I intend to at least get back into app development for it |
| 07:09.38 | SenileBob | im developing a home automation app for it, well - want to. I'm not a linux guy, .net developer, so need someone to do some work for me |
| 07:09.58 | benh | SenileBob: nah |
| 07:10.11 | SenileBob | but worst case, i have a web app working for what i want, so i can just run the web app fullscreen on the N800 |
| 07:10.33 | benh | SenileBob: I do linux powerpc kernel stuffs :-) just got myself a n810 and toying with it |
| 07:10.38 | mibus | SenileBob: web apps are so useful sometimes (I'm a PHP dev right now) |
| 07:10.59 | SenileBob | it uses flash to communicate with the automation processor, flash XMLSockets are a godsend for my line of work |
| 07:11.06 | mibus | benh: wait, you're *that* benh? |
| 07:11.12 | trickie_ | hey aussies |
| 07:11.23 | SenileBob | hey trickie |
| 07:11.33 | trickie_ | is one also... but stuck on the other side of the world |
| 07:11.43 | mibus | hi trickie_ |
| 07:12.01 | SenileBob | trickie: you a maemo dev? |
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| 07:12.24 | benh | mibus: is there another one ? :-) |
| 07:12.27 | trickie_ | SenileBob: no, but i have been hacking on my n800 for a while |
| 07:12.40 | mibus | benh: well, I don't go around assuming stuff ;). Didn't realise you were an aussie |
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| 07:12.49 | benh | mibus: I'm not :-) |
| 07:12.56 | benh | mibus: I'm french but I live in australia |
| 07:13.01 | mibus | benh: ah, got it |
| 07:13.02 | KotCzarny | o.o |
| 07:13.08 | benh | mibus: most of the linux powerpc stuff happens here in Canberra :-) |
| 07:13.15 | mibus | benh: my last laptop was a G3/800, so I used a lot of your work I figure - thanks :) |
| 07:13.20 | benh | heh |
| 07:13.28 | mibus | benh: is there still much going on, now apple has shifted over? |
| 07:13.41 | benh | I'm quite busy yes :-) |
| 07:13.48 | mibus | cool |
| 07:13.56 | benh | less visible stuff ... IBM power machines support, cell stuffs, etc... |
| 07:14.00 | SenileBob | ive posted a question on internettablettalk about communicating with a N800 via SSH/SFTP - anyone got any experience with that stuff? http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19795 |
| 07:14.00 | trickie_ | benh: this is offtopic but do you know a Philippe Loève (he lives in paris)? |
| 07:14.01 | benh | lots of embedded bits too |
| 07:14.12 | benh | trickie: how old ? |
| 07:14.21 | benh | trickie: he's probably a cousin of mine |
| 07:14.25 | trickie_ | benh: 40 -45 ish |
| 07:14.28 | trickie_ | yes i think so |
| 07:14.31 | benh | trickie: my mom is a Loeve :-) |
| 07:14.31 | trickie_ | so am i apparently :) |
| 07:14.34 | benh | heh |
| 07:14.36 | trickie_ | distantly |
| 07:14.42 | trickie_ | i am a loeve |
| 07:14.46 | benh | heh |
| 07:14.55 | benh | I don't know the loeve part of the familiy that well :-0 |
| 07:15.01 | trickie_ | he he |
| 07:15.07 | benh | so you're a descendant of max ? |
| 07:15.14 | trickie_ | yep |
| 07:15.28 | benh | privmsg :-) |
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| 07:42.23 | aquatix | old family unite :) |
| 07:43.40 | aquatix | SenileBob: i would say that it worked similar to that iPhone situation |
| 07:43.49 | aquatix | just remote commands over ssh |
| 07:43.56 | trickie_ | aquatix: yep ha ha |
| 07:44.10 | aquatix | btw, use scp instead of sftp, eliminates another service ;) |
| 07:44.18 | aquatix | scp works over ssh and is neat |
| 07:44.21 | KotCzarny | use sshfs |
| 07:44.24 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 07:44.49 | aquatix | that's fuse |
| 07:44.55 | aquatix | is that available on n8x0? |
| 07:44.59 | KotCzarny | yes |
| 07:44.59 | aquatix | oh wait |
| 07:45.10 | aquatix | it only has to be available on his pc |
| 07:45.18 | KotCzarny | but is available on n8x0 too |
| 07:45.25 | aquatix | except... that he wants to do it from a vb.net app |
| 07:45.38 | KotCzarny | vb.. urrgrhgrhghh |
| 07:45.40 | aquatix | would stick with scp ;) |
| 07:45.43 | aquatix | KotCzarny: yeah |
| 07:46.08 | aquatix | *whyyy* :P |
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| 08:38.27 | Italodance | what is dimdim? |
| 08:39.36 | Italodance | i got it |
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| 08:53.16 | AD-N770 | bon dia / good morning |
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| 09:08.42 | jldiaz | anyone uses BitchX for irc? |
| 09:09.04 | eichi | jldiaz, dont use ugly words like bitch please ;) |
| 09:09.57 | jldiaz | ok, so, anyone uses Bit*X for irc? :-) |
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| 09:15.14 | eichi | jldiaz, ;) |
| 09:15.27 | jldiaz | re |
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| 09:24.28 | jeddy3 | uhm, how do you enter a channel on irc with built-in-messenger and rtcomm? :) |
| 09:25.18 | solmumaha | jeddy3: not sure you do :) but if you can find it, do tell |
| 09:25.49 | jeddy3 | solmumaha, ;) |
| 09:27.28 | Blom | :D |
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| 10:09.25 | hrw | jeddy3: simple it is |
| 10:09.50 | hrw | jeddy3: add irc account and then use 'internet chat' application to enter chat room |
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| 10:13.05 | jeddy3 | hrw: ah, yes, found it x_X |
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| 10:27.14 | solmumaha | hrw: thanks |
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| 10:47.17 | florian | good morning |
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| 11:12.44 | lcuk | morning florian :) |
| 11:13.14 | florian | hi lcuk |
| 11:13.22 | lcuk | are you all set for ltag |
| 11:13.23 | X-Fade_ | Hi all |
| 11:13.33 | lcuk | hi x |
| 11:13.45 | hrw | not yet lcuk |
| 11:14.08 | lcuk | are you goin as well hrw |
| 11:15.07 | hrw | lcuk: plan to but it is not decided yet |
| 11:15.41 | lcuk | ahh, well i have flights arranged which involve waking at some ungodly time |
| 11:16.15 | lcuk | the milkman wont have brought my milk! |
| 11:16.30 | hrw | lcuk: Berlin is few hours by car |
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| 11:17.18 | lcuk | it was 23 hours last time i travelled by car to germany - and that was just over the border |
| 11:21.42 | lcuk | grabs dinner |
| 11:22.23 | Blafasel | 5 hours to berlin from here |
| 11:22.40 | shapr | Many hours from Boston to Berlin. |
| 11:22.45 | benh | about 25 to 30 hours or so from here :-) |
| 11:22.53 | benh | involving 2 to 3 flights :-) |
| 11:23.09 | Blafasel | =) |
| 11:23.38 | Blafasel | 5 hours chilling or 3.5 during the night and with full speed ;) |
| 11:24.13 | benh | hrm... I could do faster than 25 hours I suppose if I hijacked a concorde :-) |
| 11:24.20 | benh | though it would have to refuel a couple of times ! |
| 11:24.25 | Blafasel | Hmm.. Scratch that. They are adding far too many speed limits these days |
| 11:24.36 | benh | hehe |
| 11:26.54 | Blafasel | benh: Better suggestion: Get yourself a Blackbird from the US ;) |
| 11:27.13 | Blafasel | Same problem with fuel, but even faster |
| 11:27.25 | benh | heh true :-) |
| 11:27.28 | lcuk | hitch a lift on the next shuttle |
| 11:27.35 | lcuk | hop out where required |
| 11:27.44 | benh | and blow up half way through ? no thanks ! |
| 11:28.14 | lcuk | thinks its an acceptable risk |
| 11:28.36 | benh | I'd rather hitch a lift on a russian rocket with a soyouz :-) |
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| 11:28.50 | benh | those things seem to be good at keeping monkeys alive :-) |
| 11:29.05 | lcuk | from what i heard the occupants almost ended up like pizza last time |
| 11:29.11 | benh | but then, I don't have the kind of $ to do that or create a linux distro :-) |
| 11:29.22 | benh | lcuk: it's all in the "almost" :-) |
| 11:30.44 | lcuk | but this isnt the first time, arent they now reconsidering them and putting them through lots of tests to confirm just whats going wrong - its seemingly a common fault |
| 11:31.17 | benh | heh possibly, but stats are still in favor of the russian sack of bolts |
| 11:32.08 | johnx | plus, with even more tests it will be even safer. The safest time to fly (in space or on an airline) is probably right after a crash |
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| 11:32.28 | lcuk | i dunno, there is still something elegent about the shuttle. for all its creaky old failings it is still more impressive as a rocket |
| 11:32.46 | benh | yeah, it looks good on TV :-) |
| 11:32.46 | johnx | ah, the elegance of the space bus |
| 11:33.10 | benh | SW engineers know the danger inherent in complexity :-) |
| 11:33.37 | lcuk | im just reading a niven book where a group of adventurers have been using old space junk to make their own space colony :) |
| 11:33.55 | benh | lcuk: which one ? I wonder if I read that one |
| 11:33.58 | johnx | The Suyouz is the epitomy of the "Unix way": Do one thing, do it well, be robust against catestrophic failure |
| 11:34.13 | benh | johnx: so true :-) |
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| 11:34.40 | johnx | The shuttle has feature creep :) |
| 11:34.52 | lcuk | descent of anansi http://www.amazon.com/Descent-Anansi-Steven-Barnes/dp/0812512928 |
| 11:34.59 | benh | johnx: it can only end in tears :-) |
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| 11:35.11 | benh | lcuk: thx |
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| 11:36.30 | lcuk | i dunno if its any good - i only started it a couple of days ago |
| 11:36.51 | benh | lcuk: don't worry, I've read enough bad sci-fi to have a pretty low threshold :-) |
| 11:37.00 | benh | lcuk: better than getting drunk on a plane :-) |
| 11:37.10 | Blafasel | And cheaper! |
| 11:37.22 | benh | Blafasel: nah, on intl, booze is usually free :-) |
| 11:37.38 | Blafasel | You see, I have to fly more often.. |
| 11:37.40 | Blafasel | Damn. |
| 11:37.55 | benh | heh |
| 11:38.01 | lcuk | just for the booze? buy a bottle and sit in a box and pretent |
| 11:38.05 | lcuk | pretend |
| 11:38.06 | benh | :-) |
| 11:38.41 | lcuk | you might still crash, but somehow escaping out of your lounge by inflatable slide is still safer than a plane |
| 11:38.59 | benh | hehe |
| 11:39.25 | benh | qantas first class lounge in sydney rocks :-) |
| 11:39.36 | Blafasel | Yeah, good point. For the price of an international flight I _might_ be able to drink enough to feel like flying anyway. |
| 11:39.36 | benh | full high end restaurant free :-) |
| 11:39.42 | benh | hehe |
| 11:39.59 | benh | but then, you have to fly first class ... which isn't in my budget |
| 11:40.09 | benh | or get lucky and be invited in by somebody who does :-) |
| 11:40.23 | lcuk | and an added bonus, in your lounge you get to play with the controls and pretend to be the pilot! |
| 11:40.49 | johnx | even if I had the money to blow on first class I'd still take one look at the ticket price and say "Nah, I'd rather buy a brand new laptop..." |
| 11:41.14 | benh | hehe, point ! |
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| 11:41.43 | johnx | I prefer driving when I can. (darn gas prices!) |
| 11:41.59 | benh | johnx: driving from australia won't take you anywhere tho :-) |
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| 11:42.41 | Blafasel | Gas is free for me, gladly. I therefor even prefer driving to flights ;) |
| 11:42.49 | johnx | yeah, like I said "When I can." |
| 11:42.57 | johnx | Blafasel, how did you manage that? |
| 11:43.12 | johnx | SO works for Exxon/Shell? |
| 11:43.33 | Blafasel | My boss pays (which means "free for me"). ;-p |
| 11:43.44 | johnx | ah, as long as you go where he wants :P |
| 11:44.03 | johnx | still, it's a good deal. |
| 11:44.23 | Blafasel | Nope, for every single mile. And I had to drive for the company twice so far. In the last 18 month.. |
| 11:44.31 | johnx | O_o |
| 11:44.48 | johnx | ok, what's the catch? |
| 11:45.20 | Blafasel | Miles/kilometer are limited. Leasing contract allows 30.000km/year. Which limits the fuel of course ;) |
| 11:45.25 | lcuk | thats not a catch, thats a perk :) |
| 11:45.48 | johnx | 30,000km/year isn't bad |
| 11:45.53 | lcuk | goes to his mums |
| 11:45.55 | lcuk | back later |
| 11:45.58 | johnx | even when I drove the most it was still only about that much |
| 11:46.14 | johnx | have fun, lcuk |
| 11:46.18 | Blafasel | lcuk: "Perk": Actually you have to pay taxes for stuff like that, yes. |
| 11:51.02 | andre___ | where is the maemo Internet search (mis) applet code located to check out? |
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| 11:54.44 | X-Fade_ | andre___: Isn't it part of the hildon desktop? |
| 11:56.15 | *** part/#maemo Cptn-N800 (n=user@158.36.200.176) |
| 11:56.38 | andre___ | hmm, should take a closer look. thanks |
| 11:57.35 | hrw | diablo reappeared on maemo devels.. |
| 11:57.38 | hrw | ml |
| 11:57.50 | X-Fade_ | hrw: Yeah, that is my post ;) |
| 11:57.57 | hrw | I wonder will it be so fucked like chinook is or more |
| 11:58.15 | X-Fade_ | I want developer's input on that. |
| 11:58.26 | hrw | I want *docs* |
| 11:58.43 | X-Fade_ | hrw: Ask dave ;) |
| 11:58.53 | hrw | and ability to edit system more then crapook allows |
| 11:59.43 | hrw | X-Fade_: I will not be suprised if diablo will get 80% of nokia apps closed this time |
| 12:00.15 | hrw | 'we closed it just because we can etc' |
| 12:00.27 | hrw | s/ etc'/' etc |
| 12:01.16 | X-Fade_ | hrw: I don't think Nokia will do that. The slowly start to learn. |
| 12:01.30 | X-Fade_ | They certainly won't go to 'more closed'. |
| 12:02.08 | hrw | in maemo 'less closed' does not mean 'less fscked up' |
| 12:02.16 | hrw | i18n is fscked deeply |
| 12:02.45 | hrw | 'we care about few countries - rest have to fuck up' |
| 12:03.26 | hrw | sorry for language but I have this feeling each time when I think about maemo and i18n |
| 12:03.41 | solmumaha | hrw: bad day? |
| 12:03.45 | hrw | solmumaha: not at all |
| 12:04.05 | RST38h | shares i18n philosophy |
| 12:07.25 | hrw | solmumaha: to buy n810 I had to order it in other part of europe. to have proper name names I had to build locale pack. to have national chars on keyboard I had to learn how to make x11 keymaps. then had to find out how to get my keymap working -- had to use 3rd party app just to be able to set own keymap and it is not seen in few places anyway |
| 12:07.55 | pyhimys | Has anyone got a good idea how to disable dictionary when eg. entering password on terminal to ssh? |
| 12:08.09 | hrw | solmumaha: and nOKIA has official stores here in Poland |
| 12:08.37 | RST38h | hrw: Just learn English already |
| 12:08.50 | hrw | RST38h: who told that I do not know it? |
| 12:09.02 | hrw | RST38h: but English lack ±æê³ñó궼¿ chars still |
| 12:09.29 | RST38h | hrw: hey, English lacks pretty much *all* the cyrillic chars |
| 12:09.37 | hrw | not to mention that officially there is no way to enter | {} and few more chars |
| 12:09.44 | RST38h | Do you see me complaining though? :) |
| 12:09.49 | hrw | RST38h: but n810 has russian keymap |
| 12:10.11 | RST38h | Yes, and there is even a physical russian keyboard, but I could not buy it here either - had to order from US |
| 12:10.13 | *** join/#maemo kenne (n=kenneth@200.184.118.132) |
| 12:10.47 | RST38h | Who gives a damn though, as long as it can display cyrillic UTF-8... |
| 12:10.49 | hrw | RST38h: at least less problem less - keymaps |
| 12:12.38 | RST38h | hrw: I get to use it at most once a week or so |
| 12:12.45 | RST38h | Most stuff is in English anyway |
| 12:13.05 | hrw | I also would like to run !maemo on n810 without having to use binaries to have working device (I can accept binary kernel module for wifi). |
| 12:13.40 | RST38h | hrw: What do you mean? |
| 12:14.12 | hrw | RST38h: bt, wpa, battery |
| 12:14.17 | johnx | he's probably referring to the proprietary parts of maemo, the battery charging stuff, the dsme power saving stuff, the sound situation, etc |
| 12:14.23 | RST38h | ah |
| 12:14.33 | keesj | hrw: did you follow the last disc on maemo-dev ? |
| 12:14.38 | hrw | known also as 'curse of maemo' |
| 12:14.40 | RST38h | Well, no way to avoid that, with all the NDAs |
| 12:14.51 | hrw | keesj: have to read whole - just looked at few |
| 12:14.57 | RST38h | Even OMAP2 has not publicly available datasheets |
| 12:15.06 | keesj | I have the feeling that we stand a chance |
| 12:15.39 | hrw | keesj: if someone will manage to get all small projects more united |
| 12:15.47 | keesj | the wifi talk is going to right way |
| 12:16.07 | hrw | umac.ko can be adapted to other kernels with some tricks |
| 12:16.13 | keesj | idem there seams to be enough animo for this |
| 12:17.25 | hrw | sharp zaurus had better OS support then nokia tablets... |
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| 12:18.08 | keesj | hrw: you never look on the bright side. try it sometimes it is fun |
| 12:18.36 | hrw | keesj: I have covered window to not get sun on screen ;) |
| 12:19.22 | keesj | lol |
| 12:20.12 | keesj | I am in the sun and wear 3d cyber sun glasses, with x-ray vision |
| 12:21.44 | *** join/#maemo krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132) |
| 12:22.18 | hrw | ~curse gtk for gdouble |
| 12:22.19 | infobot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, gtk for gdouble ! |
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| 12:24.19 | hrw | gtk_vscale_new_with_range() takes 3s |
| 12:27.40 | hrw | ~hail serial jigs |
| 12:27.41 | infobot | ACTION bows down to serial jigs and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!" |
| 12:27.46 | hrw | too bad that I lack one for nokias |
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| 12:32.29 | RST38h | You don't stand a chance against TI |
| 12:33.14 | RST38h | If Nokia tells TI to open up programming interfaces or fuck off, it stands some chance, but Nokia is not going to do it |
| 12:33.48 | johnx | Apparently from the thread on maemo-dev, Nokia *did* ask for more open info for the 770 |
| 12:33.50 | glass | it's only a problem for nokia with IT |
| 12:34.06 | glass | on phone side, they might view it as an advantage |
| 12:34.07 | glass | for now |
| 12:34.27 | ralann | http://img.skitch.com/20080505-ty13hf482q76rui2ra4tmdjxbk.jpg |
| 12:34.57 | johnx | cute pic. :) how's the emulation speed? |
| 12:35.06 | ralann | perty decent |
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| 12:35.41 | MangoFusion | ralann: basilisk? |
| 12:35.43 | ralann | unfortunatly i cant run marathon because of it wanting to see 256 colors :/ |
| 12:35.46 | ralann | ya |
| 12:36.14 | MangoFusion | personally i prefer a real mac. but cool nonetheless ;) |
| 12:36.24 | MangoFusion | would be neat if there was an acorn emulator |
| 12:36.24 | ralann | i have several of those |
| 12:36.35 | ralann | real macs that is |
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| 12:37.57 | hrw | I used macos only on emuls |
| 12:38.11 | hrw | but shapeshifter was fast |
| 12:38.50 | RST38h | glass: There is no advantage in this |
| 12:39.23 | RST38h | The only company that may see it as advantage is TI but I guess that even for them it is more like a coverup for their own bugs |
| 12:39.54 | MangoFusion | ralann: so how usable is mac os on an IT? |
| 12:40.16 | ralann | it is more usable than on an old mac imo |
| 12:40.18 | johnx | probably more like dealing with their own NDAs and as someone from Nokia said, they'd also worry about people monkeying around with battery charging and blowing up their phones/tablets |
| 12:41.09 | johnx | TI probably took one look at the immediate cost/benefit ratio and said "no thanks" |
| 12:41.23 | ralann | only problem can be double clicking |
| 12:41.30 | johnx | they seem to be making noises about being more open with the omap3 but only time will tell... |
| 12:42.20 | keesj | johnx: I have seen pretty nice emails on the omap kernel mailing list |
| 12:42.43 | johnx | thanks, I'll do some reading :) |
| 12:42.52 | ralann | ya just have to fix that in control panel |
| 12:46.44 | johnx | keesj, ok, what I'm reading looks great so far. :D |
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| 12:51.50 | Blafasel | What's great? Future related (OMAP3)? Or interesting for the current devices as well? |
| 12:52.19 | johnx | future related. TI actually making their dspbridge code available |
| 12:52.30 | johnx | also it looks like they have an open source bootloader available too |
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| 12:53.05 | kulve | what bootloader? |
| 12:53.09 | johnx | u-boot |
| 12:53.28 | kulve | I think that has been available for very long time. But Nokia just doesn't use it |
| 12:53.45 | johnx | ah, well nevermind then |
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| 12:53.59 | johnx | hmm...and x-load |
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| 12:58.13 | RST38h | johnx: The "blow your battery" argument is fake. |
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| 12:59.30 | johnx | all it matters is that the legal dept. thinks it's real :/ |
| 12:59.42 | RST38h | You have to get *really* deep into hardware and be very specific about your actions |
| 13:00.02 | jaska | thatd make a nice cellphone worm |
| 13:01.13 | RST38h | will probably just end up with an exception in Symbian |
| 13:01.16 | johnx | RST38h, definitely, but when the PHB does his "return on investment" analysis on opening the code, things like that pop into his/her mind... |
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| 13:01.44 | RST38h | johnx: There is no investment in opening programming interfaces and there is no deifnite return too |
| 13:02.09 | RST38h | So, normally, this should be a minor engineering task + a cursory review from the legal dep |
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| 13:02.37 | RST38h | Guys who should be responsible for this are Developer Relations Dep |
| 13:02.49 | RST38h | At least this is how it works in Intel |
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| 13:03.22 | johnx | but intel is selling hardware, and they *rely* on people writing software to run on their hardware |
| 13:03.50 | johnx | I think there is a difference in perspective and attitude in terms of Intel vs Nokia |
| 13:03.57 | RST38h | TI is also selling hardware |
| 13:04.19 | johnx | right, and they're starting to open up |
| 13:04.21 | RST38h | And OMAP specs belong to TI not Nokia. Nokia is pretty much like Apple or IBM |
| 13:04.25 | johnx | they're slowly coming around |
| 13:05.02 | RST38h | It is ridiculous that things like VR instruction set are closed |
| 13:05.32 | johnx | that doesn't bother me nearly as much as ridiculous simple things like the browser UI being closed |
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| 13:10.47 | hrw | johnx: or hildon components |
| 13:10.59 | johnx | hrw, agreed. |
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| 13:11.41 | hrw | hm. linux-omap git moved to same modem as maemo.org use ;( |
| 13:12.20 | johnx | someone should tell the new intern to stop playing tetris on the n800 that's hosting maemo.org :P |
| 13:12.46 | johnx | (though maemo.org seems ok here) |
| 13:13.10 | solmumaha | johnx: i heard it's 770 with 2008he |
| 13:13.10 | trickie_ | hrw: http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/tmlind/linux-omap-2.6.git;a=summary |
| 13:13.12 | trickie_ | a mirror |
| 13:13.18 | trickie_ | not always directly up to date |
| 13:13.36 | hrw | trickie_: thhx |
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| 13:13.51 | kulve | http://git2.kernel.org/ |
| 13:17.32 | hrw | n810 is charging now |
| 13:17.47 | hrw | will try linux-omap head later |
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| 13:20.04 | trickie_ | hrw: http://www.muru.com/linux/n8x0/ |
| 13:20.15 | trickie_ | you will need to at least change the machine id |
| 13:22.03 | trickie_ | i have to booting into mamona on mmc1 |
| 13:22.13 | trickie_ | but my usbnet is stuffed, and it all breaks after that :) |
| 13:23.19 | hrw | trickie_: already fetched that patchset |
| 13:23.26 | johnx | trickie_, that's some great info. thanks! |
| 13:23.38 | trickie_ | np, wasn't me :) |
| 13:23.56 | johnx | ah, was it someone here on #maemo? |
| 13:24.04 | trickie_ | no |
| 13:24.12 | trickie_ | tony is the linux-omap maintainer |
| 13:24.15 | trickie_ | i think |
| 13:27.37 | johnx | ah, interesting |
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| 13:34.37 | hrw | ~curse gtk_vscale_new_with_range() |
| 13:34.38 | infobot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, gtk_vscale_new_with_range() ! |
| 13:35.09 | hrw | why it takes 3s to create slider.. |
| 13:35.33 | |Nazgul| | hello |
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| 13:38.36 | |Nazgul| | . |
| 13:38.42 | johnx | hi |
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| 13:45.12 | RST38h | hrw: must be doing it via DBus ;) |
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| 14:36.02 | lcuk | i am working on a way to allow user to switch between ondemand and performance in cpufreq. i am considering adding the required commands to the sudoers file as part of installation. would i be best adding a small shell script to the sudoers, or just the 2 echo lines required? |
| 14:36.46 | *** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@gozur.sunflowerbroadband.com) |
| 14:37.01 | lcuk | version 1: user ALL = NOPASSWD: /path/to/changecpu.sh |
| 14:37.23 | qwerty12 | Maybe the shell script? Because then, if you need to make any changes to the echo line, it would be easier editing the script. |
| 14:37.24 | lcuk | version 2: user ALL = NOPASSWD: echo performance >/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor |
| 14:37.39 | lcuk | but the same can be said for if anyone ELSE changes the script |
| 14:38.34 | qwerty12 | True. I guess they both work the same, listen to what your heart tells you :p |
| 14:38.38 | lcuk | if i mark a whole userspace script as allowed doesnt that mean it can be replaced and run for the wrong purpose |
| 14:38.39 | trickie_ | id go version 2 |
| 14:38.51 | trickie_ | lcuk: yep |
| 14:39.07 | lcuk | right, ill put the specific 2 lines i require then - its much cleaner :) |
| 14:39.16 | qwerty12 | Good points. I change my mind to v2 :p |
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| 14:39.53 | lcuk | i could technically put my whole program in there and just run that, but for similar reasons i dont want to do that |
| 14:40.16 | Navi | woo |
| 14:42.45 | lcuk | as a third option, if i just added the cpufreq itself: /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor could i then write it as i need |
| 14:43.11 | lcuk | that way i wouldnt even need a script nor the echo |
| 14:43.26 | Navi | Plugin support in webkitgtk |
| 14:43.28 | Navi | :o |
| 14:44.27 | Navi | Now everyone can watch their youtubes :P |
| 14:49.27 | *** join/#maemo monkeywraith (n=monkeywr@ip70-189-183-230.lv.lv.cox.net) |
| 14:49.43 | monkeywraith | anybody around? |
| 14:50.10 | johnx | isn't around |
| 14:51.07 | johnx | what's the question? |
| 14:51.19 | monkeywraith | i can get gjiten (japanese dictionary) working on os2007 or gcjk (chinese / japanese / korean input support) working on os2008, but not both together :( |
| 14:51.27 | monkeywraith | any ideas? |
| 14:52.09 | johnx | have you checked itt for anyone else who tried to get gjiten working on os2008? |
| 14:52.23 | johnx | also, have you looked at the dictionaries available for sdictviewer? |
| 14:53.16 | monkeywraith | in os2007 i can install the input support, but can not get the im switch to show up, in os2008 it claims the os2008 version of gjiten is not a compatible install file |
| 14:53.19 | qwerty12 | gjiten can be installed on os2008, just takes a while. johnx is right, check itt for the solution. |
| 14:53.30 | monkeywraith | i am not familiar with itt or sdictviewer |
| 14:53.44 | johnx | ~itt |
| 14:53.45 | monkeywraith | where is itt? |
| 14:53.51 | johnx | internettablettalk.com/forums |
| 14:54.01 | qwerty12 | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17258&highlight=gjiten |
| 14:54.04 | monkeywraith | oh, thank you :) |
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| 14:54.58 | johnx | infobot, itt is the forums on internettablettalk.com ( http://internettablettalk.com/forums ) |
| 14:54.59 | infobot | johnx: okay |
| 14:55.00 | monkeywraith | ahhh, thank you both very much, looks like that should do it |
| 14:55.48 | johnx | lots of good stuff on itt, but the search there isn't so great |
| 14:55.52 | lcuk | via ssh how do i run a program as the regular user - ie not root |
| 14:56.08 | johnx | ssh user@my-tablet |
| 14:56.14 | lcuk | is the username user |
| 14:56.19 | johnx | yes :) |
| 14:56.23 | lcuk | ahhh right :) thx |
| 14:56.39 | johnx | the command of the day is: whoami |
| 14:56.48 | hrw | does someone use 2.6.25-omap1 on n800/n810 or at least have it ready to boot? |
| 14:57.19 | johnx | Astorm was trying it a couple days ago I think |
| 14:57.22 | *** join/#maemo matt_c_ (n=mcroydon@gozur.sunflowerbroadband.com) |
| 14:57.26 | trickie_ | hrw: yep im running it on my n800 |
| 14:57.35 | lcuk | i am SPARTA! |
| 14:57.36 | trickie_ | hrw: well master not the tag |
| 14:57.43 | hrw | trickie_: cool |
| 14:58.00 | trickie_ | hrw: some good fixes went in after the tag |
| 14:58.03 | hrw | trickie_: I will give you kernel module - will you report me back results? |
| 14:58.31 | trickie_ | hrw: im at work ATM, and i stuffed my usbnet so i don't have a console |
| 14:58.41 | trickie_ | but when ifx it then yeah for sure! |
| 14:58.50 | trickie_ | s/ifx/fix/ |
| 14:59.13 | hrw | trickie_: http://blog.haerwu.biz/download/maemo/2.6.25/ |
| 14:59.24 | hrw | trickie_: you probably notice familiar names there ;D |
| 14:59.43 | trickie_ | he he |
| 14:59.48 | qwerty12 | ooh wifi |
| 14:59.51 | qwerty12 | I think |
| 15:00.02 | hrw | no warranty that it will work of course |
| 15:00.10 | johnx | very interesting :) |
| 15:00.10 | trickie_ | hrw: ill let you know if get success! |
| 15:00.14 | trickie_ | np |
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| 15:01.47 | monkeywraith | i have to say, after 10+ flashes in the last few hours, i love how quick and easy it is to flash this thing XD |
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| 15:03.11 | Navi | Woo |
| 15:03.34 | qwerty12 | is having fun with sound servers on my desktop |
| 15:04.24 | johnx | Navi, playing with webkitgtk? |
| 15:04.47 | Navi | Yes |
| 15:05.08 | johnx | working well for you? |
| 15:05.25 | Navi | I try it every so often to see how it's progressing |
| 15:05.37 | Navi | on the desktop, it's nice and fast |
| 15:06.02 | Navi | plugin support is a recent thing |
| 15:07.20 | Navi | At start up, midori uses 61MB or so |
| 15:07.25 | Navi | with google loaded |
| 15:08.00 | johnx | it seems to actually use less on my zaurus... |
| 15:08.02 | RST38h | urgh |
| 15:08.04 | Navi | Compared to the latest firefox beta, which uses double that |
| 15:08.11 | trickie_ | later |
| 15:08.19 | RST38h | Mobile firefox uses 120MB at startup? |
| 15:08.23 | RST38h | How come? |
| 15:08.31 | Navi | I'm not talkings about mobile :/ |
| 15:08.51 | RST38h | Even the desktop version (2.x) starts at something like 30MB |
| 15:08.54 | Navi | Mobile firefox has a lot of the fat trimmed away |
| 15:09.12 | Navi | I haven't tried it to make fun of it yet, though. |
| 15:09.13 | hrw | monkeywraith: quick and easy? |
| 15:09.27 | hrw | monkeywraith: try to get Vernier LabQuest into your hands |
| 15:09.53 | hrw | monkeywraith: you put sd card or usb stick with firmware files, reboot with one key pressed and it is upgrading |
| 15:10.08 | hrw | monkeywraith: no other machines needed during flashing |
| 15:10.11 | Navi | johnx, still no cookies, though. |
| 15:10.25 | Navi | That's on the top of my list for things that I want |
| 15:10.35 | Navi | flash support was pretty low |
| 15:10.38 | johnx | have you tried the newer epiphany-webkit? |
| 15:10.43 | Navi | Nope |
| 15:11.00 | Navi | I was meaning to, but never got around to it |
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| 15:11.40 | Navi | Though, midori supports user stylesheets now |
| 15:11.59 | Navi | That was pretty high on my "wants" list |
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| 15:12.42 | johnx | I tried to use it as a main browser on my desktop for a while, but some things like "open in a new tab" aren't quite working |
| 15:12.53 | Navi | heh |
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| 15:13.10 | Navi | midori is more complete with webkitgtk than midori, it sounds :P |
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| 15:13.33 | Navi | The devs work pretty hard to support features from webkitgtk as soon as they pop out |
| 15:13.42 | Navi | since webkitgtk itself is lacking |
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| 15:13.57 | johnx | the epiphany guys are focusing on webkitgtk going forward |
| 15:14.05 | Navi | mhm |
| 15:14.07 | johnx | so things should improve rapidly |
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| 15:26.20 | Navi | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:26.59 | Navi | I remember exactly why I don't use webkit full time |
| 15:27.17 | Navi | No support to download files >_> |
| 15:27.46 | johnx | is that really a webkit feature? I thought for sure that would be a browser feature... |
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| 15:42.14 | Navi | johnx, it's a bit of both |
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| 15:42.58 | Navi | webkitgtk just needs a file handler |
| 15:43.18 | Navi | which it lacks |
| 15:43.30 | johnx | ah |
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| 15:49.32 | johnx | Are you sure cookies aren't working? |
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| 15:52.34 | johnx | nevermind, I guess not :/ |
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| 16:02.18 | Navi | :P |
| 16:02.28 | Navi | It supports temporary sessions |
| 16:02.31 | Navi | but no cookies |
| 16:02.42 | johnx | yeah, just found that out |
| 16:03.04 | Navi | mmk |
| 16:03.45 | johnx | <whine>there's so much nice hardware that comes with winmo attached :/ </whine> |
| 16:04.11 | Navi | heh |
| 16:04.18 | Navi | yeah |
| 16:07.37 | johnx | jeez, nevermind. I was looking at some pics of the htc advantage but it's $1350 |
| 16:08.13 | glass | hehe |
| 16:08.22 | glass | it's a nice piece of hw imho |
| 16:08.33 | glass | but with winmo.. |
| 16:08.35 | Navi | XD |
| 16:08.37 | Navi | Yeh... |
| 16:08.45 | Navi | Way to expensive for a phone |
| 16:08.49 | Navi | s/o/oo/ |
| 16:08.54 | glass | way too nonphone to use as phone |
| 16:08.57 | johnx | oh yeah, it looks nice, but that's the price of an n810 wimax and a thinkpad to go with it |
| 16:09.12 | glass | yeah.. |
| 16:09.14 | johnx | plus, nice hardware != nice experience |
| 16:09.20 | johnx | as I have learned repeatedly... |
| 16:09.29 | glass | hehe |
| 16:09.45 | glass | the kb attachment was nicely done |
| 16:10.57 | Navi | Reminds me, if you buy your PCs as apposed to building them, buy from psystar |
| 16:11.14 | johnx | ahahaha |
| 16:11.14 | johnx | why? |
| 16:11.21 | Navi | http://psystar.com/open_and_open_pro.html |
| 16:11.26 | johnx | I mean I've heard of psystar, but why bother? |
| 16:11.31 | Navi | No windows license forced on you :P |
| 16:11.38 | Navi | s'all |
| 16:11.45 | johnx | meh |
| 16:11.51 | Navi | Meh you! |
| 16:11.53 | johnx | there's like a million other companies that offer that |
| 16:11.57 | *** join/#maemo solarion (n=solarion@cruftix.physics.uiowa.edu) |
| 16:11.58 | johnx | dell being one of them |
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| 16:12.07 | Navi | Dell is meh |
| 16:12.09 | Navi | Lol ^_^ |
| 16:12.11 | glass | how are psystar different than ordering just all parts and assembly from any of the million shops that do that sort of thing? |
| 16:12.33 | glass | practically every parts store offers assembly too |
| 16:12.42 | johnx | dell even sells laptops with parts selected to work nice with linux with ubuntu all setup and waiting for you |
| 16:12.52 | Navi | johnx, yeah, I know. |
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| 16:12.59 | johnx | so, why push psystar? |
| 16:13.13 | Navi | 'cuz they're funny :P |
| 16:13.23 | johnx | aaah, I see |
| 16:13.23 | Navi | Get OS X preinstalled |
| 16:13.41 | johnx | woo! it's all the things that annoy me in OSX without the software updates working right! |
| 16:13.44 | johnx | what a deal! |
| 16:14.01 | Navi | XD |
| 16:14.10 | Navi | It is indeed |
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| 16:14.39 | johnx | I build my desktops anyways, so it's all a moot point |
| 16:15.13 | johnx | and when I eventually get a new laptop it will probably end up being a macbook running osx or a thinkpad running debian or ubuntu |
| 16:15.20 | Navi | Heh |
| 16:15.34 | Navi | has only owned one laptop in his life |
| 16:15.47 | johnx | I've technically owned two |
| 16:15.53 | Navi | Compaq Contura 420c |
| 16:16.02 | johnx | both were given to me |
| 16:16.05 | johnx | both were DOA |
| 16:16.10 | johnx | one I managed to resurrect and use |
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| 16:16.19 | elb | I've owned numerous -- and of them all, the iBook was the best, hands down |
| 16:16.38 | johnx | I got to use a macbook for work at my last job and I really liked that machine |
| 16:17.08 | Navi | I loved the 350MB HDD in my Contura |
| 16:17.22 | Navi | and the 8MB of ram was great for running slackware at the time |
| 16:17.37 | Navi | Plus, it had an optical trackball |
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| 16:18.12 | glass | i liked the laptops with trackballs on right bottom side of screen |
| 16:18.52 | Navi | I need a real laptop, but the N800 really killed my motivation in getting one |
| 16:19.07 | johnx | I have one of thse sitting on my floor: http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-Satellite-5205-S703-2-0-GHz-Pentium/dp/B00006LS94 |
| 16:19.51 | Navi | Heh |
| 16:19.55 | Navi | weird hinge |
| 16:19.55 | johnx | Navi, agreed. Between my zaurus and N800 w/ usb keyboard and a general lack of $1000 burning a hole in my pocket, I don't see getting a new laptop soon |
| 16:20.10 | Navi | Contura was 2500 back in '95 >_> |
| 16:20.11 | johnx | yeah, stupid hinge with a huge screen |
| 16:20.17 | johnx | guess what's broken on it? |
| 16:20.22 | Navi | Both? |
| 16:20.30 | johnx | nah, screen works |
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| 16:20.33 | Navi | k |
| 16:20.35 | johnx | hinge is busted |
| 16:20.40 | johnx | CPU overheats |
| 16:20.45 | Navi | Same on my contura |
| 16:20.51 | Navi | not the overheating part, the broken hinge part |
| 16:20.58 | glass | hinges are busted on my acer too |
| 16:21.00 | johnx | it gets <30min on its *9* cell battery |
| 16:21.01 | glass | that i'm writing from now |
| 16:21.11 | glass | some glue and it stays together well enough |
| 16:21.14 | Navi | XD |
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| 16:21.21 | Navi | stupid laptop hinges |
| 16:21.30 | Navi | need to make 'em out of something other than cheap plastic |
| 16:21.34 | glass | it's actually the plastic on the screen that the hinge attaches on these acers |
| 16:21.42 | johnx | ah, I mean the actual metal hinge part |
| 16:21.53 | glass | the metal parts are as good as new |
| 16:22.07 | johnx | both of the actual internal metal hinges on mine broke |
| 16:22.10 | glass | but the plastic on the back of the screen is too thin |
| 16:22.33 | johnx | the screen is two heavy and the hinge holds it at a weird angle which increases the amount of force it has to put up with |
| 16:22.41 | johnx | s/two/too |
| 16:22.59 | johnx | also: 8 (*&$%$ing pounds! |
| 16:23.24 | johnx | seriously! I don't even think that includes the battery |
| 16:23.35 | Navi | heh |
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| 16:24.18 | Navi | That's heavier than the giant that is this contura... |
| 16:24.39 | Navi | 6lb :/ |
| 16:25.03 | johnx | I haven't even powered the thing on in weeks |
| 16:25.13 | Navi | >_> |
| 16:25.20 | Navi | What a waste |
| 16:25.23 | Navi | You should give it to me. |
| 16:25.37 | johnx | ok, come by and pick it up in exchange for an n800 stylus |
| 16:25.43 | Navi | kk |
| 16:26.07 | Navi | I really need to visit my uncle |
| 16:26.31 | Navi | Make a mold and start selling N800 stylus replacements |
| 16:26.49 | johnx | if it wasn't for the overheating->thermal throttling I might use it sometimes |
| 16:27.30 | johnx | but that when combined with everything else makes it pretty useless as a portable machine *or* a compile farm *or* a server |
| 16:27.40 | Navi | heh |
| 16:28.03 | johnx | I'm open to ideas. :) What do you think? boat anchor? door stop? |
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| 16:31.49 | Blafasel | Give it as a present to the Nokia guys. |
| 16:31.49 | johnx | a new server to host maemo.org? |
| 16:31.49 | Blafasel | "See, I thought you like useless" ;) |
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| 17:04.43 | lopz | hi |
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| 17:53.46 | pupnik | !linuxtag-news |
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| 18:02.57 | lcuk | pupnik, whats not linuxtag-news |
| 18:06.44 | johnx | I think he was giving a command to the channel :) |
| 18:07.04 | johnx | or rather an apparently non-existant bot |
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| 19:11.41 | pupnik810 | who dere? |
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| 19:41.40 | konttori | here |
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| 19:46.42 | keesj | yearrrrrrrrr |
| 19:46.59 | keesj | square |
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| 20:32.54 | hrw | re |
| 20:33.12 | RST38h | upgraded osso-xterm |
| 20:33.13 | hrw | just posted 2 mails to 'lwn' thread on maemo-devs |
| 20:33.24 | RST38h | too bad that the version with the sidebar was too buggy =( |
| 20:33.27 | hrw | I wonder what will reply be |
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| 20:35.58 | RST38h | pupnik: do you by any chance know if wesnoth installs into / or does it make use of mmc? |
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| 20:40.53 | hrw | no one built debfoster/deborphan for maemo? |
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| 20:47.29 | hrw | hmm.. looking at 'quality' of maemo packages it is probably good to not use such apps |
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| 21:12.27 | GNUton | hi |
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| 21:51.40 | evaryont_ | How do I remove the bottom SD card from my nokia n800? A quick scan of the user guide didn't revail anything. I tried pressing the card in further so maybe a spring would push it out, but that didn't work :/ |
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| 21:57.51 | nomis | evaryont_: there is no clicking mechanism. Just lift it up a bit and pull it out |
| 21:58.31 | cLin | no springs |
| 21:58.57 | cLin | my card has a little dip so i put my fingernail there and pull it out |
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| 22:02.19 | zap | Hello guys! I got today this wonderful n810 and I like it a lot, but what makes me worry is that I couldn't get a GPS fix for all the day. Is this a known problem, or its just a defective exemplar? |
| 22:02.34 | hrw | zap: normal |
| 22:02.54 | zap | is it supposed to 'work' like this? |
| 22:03.02 | tank-man | takes like up to 5min to get a signal |
| 22:03.51 | term-sig | it's depence, my get ready after 5-10 seconds when i`m outside but inside any buildings it takes ages to catch signal.. |
| 22:03.54 | hrw | zap: gps in n810 was made for phones where it can get additional data from gsm network - 'a' in agps |
| 22:04.09 | zap | oooh |
| 22:04.17 | zap | so I have to connect it to a phone? |
| 22:04.39 | hrw | no |
| 22:04.42 | jldiaz | nonw and hated problem |
| 22:04.43 | jldiaz | benh/window refresh |
| 22:05.00 | benh | ? |
| 22:05.08 | benh | ah yes, I have this problem too |
| 22:05.10 | benh | pretty annoying |
| 22:05.20 | benh | once it's locked, it stays locked fine tho, but it's a pain |
| 22:05.42 | zap | hrw: how its supposed to get additional data from GSM then? |
| 22:05.49 | pupnik | RST38h: i think it still installs to / - not sure |
| 22:06.27 | pupnik | ar x wesnoth*.deb or dpkg --contents we*.deb |
| 22:06.48 | pupnik | or ar t rather |
| 22:07.15 | hrw | zap: it is chip for phones rather but got installed in non-phone |
| 22:07.38 | hrw | zap: you just have to live wit fact that n810 gps is crap |
| 22:07.47 | term-sig | what chip it's n95? |
| 22:07.59 | hrw | benh: once it is locked it does not warrant that it will keep it |
| 22:08.16 | benh | hrw: it tends to from my experience |
| 22:08.34 | benh | hrw: in fact, I lost it through the sydney M5 tunnel and it picked it back up quickly when out |
| 22:08.59 | hrw | benh: last friday I had 250km trip. n810 self-rebooted few times during that. when it got fix it keeped it for some time and then lost for 40-50km to get it back later (if at all) |
| 22:09.20 | benh | weird |
| 22:10.44 | hrw | for me n810 as gps device is unreliable too much |
| 22:10.56 | hrw | not to mention lack of usable navigation software |
| 22:12.10 | jldiaz | yes, the gps is the most dissapointing feature of the n810 |
| 22:12.50 | hrw | gps, os2008, hw keyboard |
| 22:13.02 | hrw | 3 most dissapointing features of n810 |
| 22:13.36 | evaryont_ | where are the folders for Documents, Images, Games, etc? |
| 22:13.41 | jldiaz | I find the keyboard pretty useable |
| 22:14.06 | hrw | evaryont_: /home/user/.myDocs/ iirc |
| 22:14.49 | jldiaz | I mean, for typing while standing or holding the tablet, wich is its intended use |
| 22:14.49 | hrw | jldiaz: rshift==lshift |
| 22:15.01 | jldiaz | for typing on a table, of course, an usb or bluetooth kb is preferred |
| 22:15.26 | zap | I too find the keyboard on my old Zaurus SL-C3100 a lot better |
| 22:15.27 | jldiaz | yes, hrw, but this has little impacg |
| 22:15.31 | jldiaz | impact |
| 22:15.43 | jldiaz | more annoying is the lack of a alt key |
| 22:15.53 | hrw | zap: I prefer c7x0 keyboards over sl-cxx00 one |
| 22:16.14 | hrw | jldiaz: I use Chr for extra keymapping |
| 22:16.22 | evaryont_ | hm, how do I find the device name? I think it's something along NOKIA-N800-FKJ or whatever |
| 22:16.24 | jldiaz | I'm typing now from the n810 |
| 22:16.50 | evaryont_ | hrw: how is os2008 a bad thing? Better CPU speed is really nice.... |
| 22:17.18 | jldiaz | I know hrw, I hacked a lot the rx-44 file, but I do need chr as the altgr key |
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| 22:17.33 | pupnik | zap how was keyboard better? |
| 22:17.54 | pupnik | more space between keys? |
| 22:18.12 | hrw | evaryont: better cpu speed is not related to os2008 |
| 22:18.25 | hrw | evaryont: os2008 is closed system. |
| 22:18.31 | evaryont | hrw: no? I've heard reports that it was... |
| 22:18.36 | jldiaz | btw, anyone understands the difference btween iso-level3-shift and iso-level5-shift? |
| 22:18.41 | evaryont | how is os2008 closed? :( |
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| 22:19.07 | hrw | evaryont: os2006/2007 had 330MHz limit in kernel. os2008 bumped it to 400MHz |
| 22:19.11 | zap | pupnik: it was usable, I could type fast without training |
| 22:19.21 | evaryont | oh. kernel limits, heh |
| 22:19.23 | hrw | evaryont: how? try to run non-maemo system on tablet |
| 22:19.29 | ds3 | 0 |
| 22:19.37 | evaryont | hrw: why would I? |
| 22:19.46 | hrw | evaryont: I want to do it |
| 22:20.13 | evaryont | :/ what's the default root password? |
| 22:20.20 | zap | what means 'has 400MHz limit' in the kernel? |
| 22:20.33 | hrw | evaryont: read http://blog.haerwu.biz/tag/maemo/ posts as it is 00:20 and I do not want to talk again about why maemo is closed |
| 22:20.45 | evaryont | heh, fine. thanks |
| 22:21.14 | pupnik | it used to be 'rootme' but i forgot if that changed in OS2008 |
| 22:22.04 | pupnik | zap given the low-profile (slider) design constraint, they keyboard is about perfect for me. i just remapped a tab and a | |
| 22:23.11 | evaryont | pupnik: It's changed :/ |
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| 22:23.52 | jldiaz | I put tab at Fn+Backspace, and life is much more easier now at command-line |
| 22:24.29 | pupnik | try 12345 or 123456 - sorry i can't remember - google probly knows |
| 22:25.18 | term-sig | 12345 |
| 22:25.19 | term-sig | ;] |
| 22:25.35 | evaryont | lol I just changed it :P |
| 22:25.46 | jldiaz | Is it possible to get rid of the status/autocompleion bar? |
| 22:26.41 | jldiaz | it is specially unuseful for xter;, and wastes precious vertical space |
| 22:26.52 | jldiaz | (xterm) |
| 22:27.28 | evaryont | hm, Pictures, Images, Games, Documents, etc aren't in /home/user... :/ |
| 22:27.48 | elb | jldiaz: yeah, you can turn it off in the control panel |
| 22:28.08 | jldiaz | really?? silly of me! |
| 22:28.28 | evaryont | ah, found it! |
| 22:28.29 | elb | I turned it off for that very reason |
| 22:28.40 | jldiaz | I was thinking about some obscure config file tinkering... |
| 22:28.47 | elb | osso-xterm is still a PITA, though, because it won't size to a proper 80x25 in any reasonable fashion :-P |
| 22:29.16 | evaryont | hrw: fyi Documents, Pictures, etc are in /home/user/MyDocs/.{documents,images,sounds,videos,games} |
| 22:29.29 | hrw | elb: since when 80x25 is proper? just because vt100/vt420 had it? |
| 22:29.37 | hrw | elb: 80x24 is more proper iir |
| 22:29.37 | hrw | c |
| 22:29.46 | jldiaz | but I guess that is not possiblr to turn it on/off on a per-application basis |
| 22:30.53 | pupnik | i think it is possible, but i haven't gotten it to work reliably |
| 22:32.31 | jldiaz | ok, I found the option. It was a bit obscure imho |
| 22:32.47 | pupnik | what did you find? |
| 22:32.56 | elb | hrw: depends on whether you use a hardware status line |
| 22:33.18 | pupnik | used to have a real vt100 for fun |
| 22:33.21 | jldiaz | because what you have to turn off is predictive typing, not "keyboard statusbar" or something alike |
| 22:33.23 | elb | hrw: the majority of my terminals are 80x24; if I use a hardware status line (e.g., with screen) I use 80x25 |
| 22:33.54 | hrw | elb: I used hp2623a - it had 80x24 with not reusable hardware status line |
| 22:33.57 | evaryont | what are some really good time wasters? |
| 22:34.02 | elb | hrw: suck |
| 22:34.37 | hrw | now I usually use 120x40 -> 200x60 x-terminals |
| 22:34.37 | pupnik | pytube or canola for youtube. games/emulators at http://pupnik.de/software |
| 22:34.46 | pupnik | software.html |
| 22:34.52 | jldiaz | Now, in order to get rid of xterm toolbar also, I need to think about a good mapping for PgUp and PgDown keys |
| 22:35.04 | jldiaz | any suggestion? |
| 22:35.12 | elb | I very seldom resize X terminals width-wise |
| 22:35.27 | pupnik | maybe fn+dpad up/down would be mappable? |
| 22:35.27 | jldiaz | is it possible to use for example Fn+Up? |
| 22:35.42 | pupnik | havent tried |
| 22:35.49 | elb | though sometimes I resize them vertically to 80x50 (which is within pixels of the height of two 80x24 terminals including window decorations on my display) |
| 22:35.55 | jldiaz | I'll try that |
| 22:36.36 | hrw | bye all |
| 22:36.46 | lcuk | lots of linux terminal commands dont adapt to width most of the time so theres no point in trying for more |
| 22:36.58 | hrw | lcuk: examples? |
| 22:37.05 | lcuk | make |
| 22:37.21 | hrw | lcuk: really? |
| 22:37.24 | elb | most commands do |
| 22:37.35 | hrw | lcuk: on my system 'make' output is full width |
| 22:37.39 | lcuk | no matter how wide my terminal it gets wrapped around 79ish |
| 22:38.08 | lcuk | other commands are more willing, but make isnt |
| 22:38.20 | evaryont | pupnik: THANK YOU! THANK YOU! I love programming in Ruby, I was pretty downhearted that there isn't a ruby interpreter for the n800 but you're hosting it! THANK YOU! |
| 22:38.44 | hrw | lcuk: interesting.. especially due to fact that make does not use any terminal library - it just prints text |
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| 22:38.56 | hrw | lcuk: 'cat' also wrap on 79? |
| 22:39.38 | lcuk | no, some parts of make do, but whenever i get an error message its formatted to that max |
| 22:39.46 | lcuk | ill break it and find an example |
| 22:39.54 | hrw | -> bed |
| 22:39.55 | hrw | bye |
| 22:40.11 | term-sig | guys any idea where i can get micro usb -> female cable in uk? adapter will be the best option because i dont like cables.. |
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| 22:41.22 | lcuk | you have a micro->male - easier finding yourself a standard female-female dongle |
| 22:41.52 | elb | you probably don't want to put an adapter directly in the port on the device, that's an awful lot of leverage on a port which isn't designed to take force |
| 22:42.29 | term-sig | ok, then female-female dongle, amazon or something else? |
| 22:42.38 | lcuk | n810<->standardchargingcable<->female2female<->usb_keyboard |
| 22:43.11 | lcuk | i dunno, when i was playing i had a big computer PCI extension with a pair of plugs on. |
| 22:43.25 | lcuk | i just connected them together |
| 22:43.41 | benh | evaryont: ruby ? yuck |
| 22:43.59 | benh | had a look at the interpreter source code the other day, tracking some distro bug, it's a hell hole |
| 22:44.29 | benh | a language designed by somebody who doesn't understand synchronization and locking... I wouldn't touch it with a 10 feet pole |
| 22:45.11 | pupnik | evaryont: i'm just mirroring some packages. check out 'dosbox' and 'rubybox' to see a nicely written ruby frontend using the gtk/hildon bindings |
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| 22:45.53 | elb | benh: or maybe by someone who understands that concurrency is best avoided ;-) |
| 22:45.57 | pupnik | solmumaha wrote it. it can autodownload a bunch of free/shareware games, with config files |
| 22:46.19 | benh | elb: then he should have completely avoided it in his implementation :-) |
| 22:46.45 | benh | iirc, constructs like lock++ won't do good when you use a timer or a signal handler |
| 22:47.02 | benh | I don't remember the details of the warts I found in there (in addition to the code being just plain fugly) |
| 22:47.15 | elb | benh: the original interpreter did |
| 22:47.37 | elb | then support for an in-process interpreter-provided threading model was introduced |
| 22:47.41 | benh | elb: now as to avoiding concurrency, well, you may be right, and I know tridge will very much agree with you |
| 22:47.51 | elb | I'm not sure what the current status is |
| 22:47.53 | benh | elb: but it does somewhat against the HW evolution lately :-) |
| 22:47.58 | elb | I think most people just avoid ruby threads whenever possible ;-) |
| 22:48.17 | elb | benh: all those cores can take advantage of multiple processes, though ;-) |
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| 22:48.20 | lcuk | hmmm, ok the terminal scrollback is fixed size |
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| 22:48.29 | benh | elb: yes, well, you are totally in sync with tridge here :-) |
| 22:48.45 | benh | I personally like threads but then, I -do- understand locking & sync :-) |
| 22:49.01 | lcuk | benh, get into serious dsp code then :) |
| 22:49.04 | benh | (though I suspect tridge does too .. it's just the average programmer doesn't) |
| 22:49.18 | elb | there's definitely a place for threading |
| 22:49.25 | elb | but I consider it a last-ditch effort |
| 22:49.29 | benh | lcuk: did a bit a looooong time ago... nowadays, I do serious kernel code :-) |
| 22:49.41 | benh | elb: well, the kernel is a good spot for that :-) |
| 22:49.42 | pupnik | real programmers should make dosbox sound emulation faster |
| 22:49.43 | elb | you should always let the operating system do everything it can for you -- and protecting memory space is something it can do |
| 22:50.09 | benh | elb: I tend to agree in principle... in practice however, it's expensive in terms of performances |
| 22:50.18 | elb | yeah, it depends on what you're doing, for sure |
| 22:50.21 | pupnik | someday ... lcuk :) someday... |
| 22:50.37 | benh | elb: a good example is good old mach with non colocated server for those who remember mklinux... |
| 22:50.43 | benh | elb: the cost of memory protection was huge |
| 22:50.50 | benh | elb: though it provides a really nice design |
| 22:51.04 | elb | but the windows model of "create a thread for everything", for example, I think is too far |
| 22:51.24 | elb | especially since a LOT of applications are blocked most of the time, anyway |
| 22:51.41 | benh | elb: I agree, and the average windows programmer has no idea about locking |
| 22:52.01 | elb | yeah |
| 22:52.08 | elb | that's actually my biggest problem with ubiquitous threading |
| 22:52.15 | benh | elb: ported various windows app to other platforms in a former life, it was scary what you would find in there |
| 22:52.19 | elb | it requires a level of cluefulness that most programmers just don't have |
| 22:52.24 | benh | very true |
| 22:52.40 | elb | so while the original author may even understand what's going on, the probability of the next guy Getting It goes down rapidly |
| 22:52.40 | jldiaz | what is the official X11 name of PgUp PgDn? |
| 22:52.45 | elb | jldiaz: Prior/Next |
| 22:52.57 | jldiaz | elb, thx! |
| 22:53.11 | benh | have to run, bbl |
| 22:53.32 | elb | benh: I've always considered Ousterhout's little talk on concurrency versus event-driven programming an excellent position |
| 22:53.45 | benh | elb: I think tridge did a talk on the matter too, I can't find a reference now |
| 22:54.01 | benh | elb: I tend to prefer event driven for anything GUI |
| 22:54.21 | elb | well, event driven maps well to GUI paradigms, as well |
| 22:54.30 | elb | so you're not really *losing* by going event driven |
| 22:54.32 | benh | elb: I agree that threads tend to bring a false sense of simplicity... no complicated state machines, linear programming ... and races |
| 22:54.54 | elb | yeah |
| 22:55.16 | elb | basically, when threads are the right solution, they're the right solution and nothing else even comes close |
| 22:55.31 | elb | the rest of the time, you'll be happier with fork() or select() or a mixture thereof |
| 22:55.42 | jldiaz | ok, it works. You can map Fn+dpad Up/Down to Prior/Next |
| 22:56.11 | benh | really have to run now tho :-) bbl |
| 22:56.25 | jldiaz | this will simplify the use of BitchX, and get rid of the xterm toolbar forever |
| 22:56.51 | elb | jldiaz: yeah, that's exactly what I did |
| 22:56.52 | jldiaz | also useful over vnc |
| 22:57.17 | elb | that and Fn+space to tab go a long way toward making things more usable |
| 22:57.38 | elb | I almost never use Prior/Next on my PC, because C-v M-v are easier |
| 22:57.48 | elb | but on the tablet, Fn+arrows become easier |
| 22:58.03 | jldiaz | for some reason I prefer Fn+Bkspace for Tab |
| 22:58.48 | jldiaz | what did you with chr key? |
| 23:01.03 | jldiaz | i mapped it to iso_level5_shift, and then used type="EIGTH_LEVEL" for most of the other keys |
| 23:01.40 | jldiaz | this gave me access to a lot of latin1 symbols I need |
| 23:01.56 | jldiaz | but I miss an Alt key for vnc |
| 23:02.45 | GNUton | nught |
| 23:03.05 | jldiaz | and do not really know the difference between level3 and level5 shift |
| 23:03.37 | jldiaz | only noticed that with level3 (the default) some keys were no re-mapeable |
| 23:04.27 | elb | I left Chr as-is |
| 23:04.33 | *** join/#maemo christefano (n=christef@ppp-71-128-71-115.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 23:04.58 | jldiaz | so you dont have Alt either |
| 23:05.20 | elb | no |
| 23:05.22 | elb | I use Esc |
| 23:06.20 | jldiaz | that works for emacs, but not for cycling windows over vnc |
| 23:06.32 | elb | I don't use vnc ;-) |
| 23:06.36 | jldiaz | (alt-tab) |
| 23:06.46 | jldiaz | lucky of you :) |
| 23:10.40 | elb | my window manager uses Super+Tab, anyway |
| 23:10.41 | jldiaz | I'm getting obsessed with having a truly full-screen console |
| 23:10.45 | elb | and I sure don't have a Super key ;-) |
| 23:10.56 | jldiaz | can I get rid of the scroll bar? |
| 23:11.04 | *** join/#maemo evaryont_ (n=colin@pool-138-88-44-68.res.east.verizon.net) |
| 23:11.13 | jldiaz | this is the last space consumer |
| 23:11.35 | jldiaz | wich ia not required once I have Prior/Next keys |
| 23:11.59 | elb | you can, in gconftool |
| 23:12.04 | elb | but it comes back every time you restart |
| 23:12.15 | jldiaz | :( |
| 23:12.17 | elb | apparently that's fixed in some version of osso-xterm floating around the web |
| 23:12.31 | elb | (you'll also notice that the toolbar comes back every time you restart) |
| 23:12.51 | jldiaz | I have the latest svn version of osso-xterm |
| 23:13.10 | jldiaz | in this version the toolbar does not come back |
| 23:13.13 | elb | oh, then you can probably get rid of the scrollbar with gconftool and have it say gone |
| 23:13.17 | elb | stay |
| 23:13.31 | jldiaz | is trying that |
| 23:16.31 | *** join/#maemo ogi1234 (n=ogi@bg-id.ddns.cablebg.net) |
| 23:17.02 | ogi1234 | hi there |
| 23:17.04 | jldiaz | hum |
| 23:18.09 | ogi1234 | i am trying to make a keyboard layout for n810 |
| 23:18.13 | jldiaz | gconftool is only an interface to the %gconf files scattered under /var/lib/gconf, right? |
| 23:18.38 | jldiaz | ogi1234, we were talking about this very subject |
| 23:20.34 | ogi1234 | i have problem - is i write key <COMP>{ [ ISO_Level5_Shift,ISO_Level5_Shift,ISO_Level5_Shift,ISO_Level5_Shift] }; |
| 23:20.44 | ogi1234 | everything is fine |
| 23:20.59 | ogi1234 | but i have to hold chr key |
| 23:22.05 | jldiaz | so, if I edit /var/lib/gconf/apps/osso/xterm/%gconf.xml I can access to the same options than with gconftool, true? |
| 23:22.23 | ogi1234 | with key <COMP>{[Multi_key,Multi_key,Multi_key,Multi_key]}; i cannot go to level5 |
| 23:22.28 | ogi1234 | any idea? |
| 23:22.44 | *** join/#maemo benh (n=benh@nat/ibm/x-b4b7fb87b3065254) |
| 23:22.47 | jldiaz | ogi1234, what do you pretend? |
| 23:23.17 | jldiaz | I mean, what do you want to do? |
| 23:23.49 | ogi1234 | I want to make a layout for the hardware keybord - n810 |
| 23:23.59 | jldiaz | "pretend" was not the right word, I guess, it is a "false friend" in spanish |
| 23:24.28 | jldiaz | ogi1234 , I mean what is the desired behavior for the chr key |
| 23:25.45 | ogi1234 | when I hold ctrl and pres chr there is a label "input language switched" |
| 23:26.15 | ogi1234 | but it is only a label |
| 23:26.22 | ogi1234 | in fact nothing hapens |
| 23:26.58 | ds3 | \ |
| 23:27.25 | *** join/#maemo christefano (n=christef@ppp-71-128-71-115.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 23:27.45 | ogi1234 | i need to toggle the layout on ctrl+chr |
| 23:28.19 | *** join/#maemo sp3000 (n=chatzill@hoasb-ff0ddd00-250.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 23:28.40 | jldiaz | it happens if the alphanumeric keys have type "EIGHT_LEVEL" |
| 23:29.10 | ogi1234 | i have put so - but it does not work... |
| 23:29.19 | jldiaz | then, each key has 8 mappings |
| 23:29.52 | jldiaz | the first 4 and the last 4 get swapped when you press Ctrl-Chr |
| 23:30.17 | ogi1234 | yes, exactly - my defs seems correct |
| 23:30.40 | jldiaz | but <COMP> needs to be ISO_LEVEL3_SHIFT |
| 23:30.40 | ogi1234 | i have put 8 mappings |
| 23:31.22 | ogi1234 | what do i have to put for the key <COMP> - why does it have 4 values? |
| 23:31.38 | *** join/#maemo dougt (n=dougt@c-67-180-89-151.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
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| 23:53.58 | jldiaz | 4 values for: chr, shift+chr, Fn+chr, Fn+shift+chr |
| 23:54.30 | *** part/#maemo mardi__ (n=mardi_@212.183.136.194) |
| 23:56.27 | ogi1234 | thanks jldiaz - i am still fighting... |
| 23:57.47 | ogi1234 | I have put keybord layouts from http://upir.cz/maemo/keyboards/ |
| 23:57.54 | *** join/#maemo pupnik_ (n=pupnik@dslb-088-068-106-179.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 23:58.52 | ogi1234 | do you know if there is a difference if i modify /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-44 or /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/ukeyboard files? |
