IRC log for #maemo on 20080423

`00:00.07`	`lcuk`	`(the ones on back of toothbrush)`
`00:00.08`	`KotCzarny`	`tongue scrubbers?`
`00:00.08`	`KotCzarny`	`O.o`
`00:01.25`	`lcuk`	`omg they have torture equipment for it now`
`00:01.44`	`lcuk`	`i meant the none brush side of the toothbrush having a rough patch specifically for tongue cleaning`
`00:02.05`	`KotCzarny`	`huh`
`00:02.18`	`*** join/#maemo BugBlauw (n=mendel@clamans.mobach.nl)`
`00:02.21`	`lcuk`	`http://www.clusterflock.org/images/Colgate_360.jpg`
`00:02.37`	`KotCzarny`	`fancy`
`00:02.48`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Hey, it's my toothbrush!`
`00:03.01`	`*** join/#maemo qnr-lt (n=terry@sourcemage/guru/pdpc.sustaining.qnr)`
`00:03.20`	`GeneralAntilles`	`The backing is rubber.`
`00:05.02`	`Tama^2`	`good to see they fully embrace the razorblade marketing technique`
`00:05.14`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Hehe`
`00:05.18`	`GeneralAntilles`	`MOAR IZ BETTAR!`
`00:05.41`	`GeneralAntilles`	`must admit to having a 5-blade razor.`
`00:06.11`	`KotCzarny`	`from the pic you look unshaved tohugh`
`00:06.17`	`KotCzarny`	`*though`
`00:06.27`	`qnr-lt`	`Question: where can I find what the permissions should be for particular directories? I'm having constant problems in certain respects. Apps install but say they didn't (figure they're not able to write some log files or something) - my settings never last through a shutdown, etc.`
`00:06.50`	`woodwizzle`	`Is there a good python IDE available for maemo?`
`00:07.13`	`qnr-lt`	`otherwise, things seem to work ok ... N800, OS2008, booting from MMC2`
`00:07.23`	`woodwizzle`	`MY buddy and I are learning python, and it'd be great if we could run edit and test on the go with the n800`
`00:07.44`	`lcuk`	`woodwizzle, yes there is. its called pygtkeditor`
`00:07.52`	`KotCzarny`	`just write a simple pygtk app to do it`
`00:08.07`	`lcuk`	`its fully designed and tested by a guy on his n800 and now 810 :)`
`00:08.10`	`KotCzarny`	`or just add the app to menu`
`00:08.12`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`00:08.26`	`Navi`	`I use pygtkeditor for quick comix tweaks`
`00:08.28`	`woodwizzle`	`sweetness`
`00:08.42`	`lcuk`	`its got syntax highlighting and a run button :)`
`00:08.48`	`KotCzarny`	`cool`
`00:08.49`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`00:08.56`	`lcuk`	`all a person could ask for`
`00:09.08`	`KotCzarny`	`what about massage?`
`00:09.12`	`lcuk`	`oh - and its the only program i know to use the zoom buttons - bigger fonts == + button ;)`
`00:09.22`	`lcuk`	`no sorry, but khertan himself might do`
`00:09.28`	`KotCzarny`	`hum`
`00:09.35`	`*** join/#maemo LastLemming (n=a@men13-2-82-224-174-159.fbx.proxad.net)`
`00:09.47`	`KotCzarny`	`if he is good at it, why not`
`00:09.49`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`00:09.54`	`KotCzarny`	`otherwise i'll pass`
`00:11.11`	`*** join/#maemo netx (n=rlange@osiris.darkempire.org)`
`00:12.02`	`lcuk`	`im off 2 bed, theres a new file on my ftp SDL_scrolly_sync_20080423_closest.zip if you wanna grab it and have a play kot. that function is inside. its defaulted to not running. find it and run it yourself if you wanna have a play`
`00:12.22`	`Navi`	`lcuk, zomg wut ur ftp :P`
`00:12.33`	`lcuk`	`its private for now :P`
`00:12.48`	`lcuk`	`that code there ^ isnt but i dont have webspace`
`00:12.53`	`KotCzarny`	`k k`
`00:12.54`	`lcuk`	`ermmm, hang on a min`
`00:13.49`	`lcuk`	`http://liquid.googlepages.com/SDL_scrolly_sync_20080423_closest.zip`
`00:13.52`	`lcuk`	`gnite`
`00:14.05`	`KotCzarny`	`k k`
`00:14.06`	`KotCzarny`	`nite`
`00:14.07`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`00:15.12`	`Navi`	`404`
`00:17.15`	`lcuk`	`hmm`
`00:17.38`	`KotCzarny`	`maybe it's missing index.html`
`00:17.39`	`lcuk`	`KotCzarny, can you see that file i put on google`
`00:17.39`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`00:17.50`	`KotCzarny`	`lcuk, nope, 404 on google`
`00:17.55`	`KotCzarny`	`ftp works though`
`00:20.33`	`lcuk`	`http://liquid.googlepages.com/testfiles`
`00:20.54`	`Navi`	`thur eet iz`
`00:20.57`	`Navi`	`woo`
`00:20.58`	`Navi`	`\o/`
`00:21.12`	`lcuk`	`i did that the other nite with pupnik and he got it`
`00:21.16`	`lcuk`	`wonder what was diff`
`00:22.42`	`lcuk`	`ahhh well, this is just a dirty test program for sdl, this is probably the closest i have gotten to making a smooth verison, but its not perfect and doesnt suit my rendering style still. there may be more someone can do though`
`00:22.48`	`*** join/#maemo greentux_ (n=lemke@Z5899.z.pppool.de)`
`00:23.20`	`lcuk`	`(like follow into shmPutImage and see where the rabbit hole leads`
`00:23.57`	`KotCzarny`	`hmm`
`00:24.16`	`KotCzarny`	`me thought for a moment to dump x`
`00:24.40`	`KotCzarny`	`but it would break compatibility for many apps`
`00:24.58`	`KotCzarny`	`ok, brushing time`
`00:25.00`	`lcuk`	`technically sdl can be fired with quite a lot of drivers`
`00:25.04`	`lcuk`	`there is one for directfb`
`00:25.26`	`*** join/#maemo Zetx\| (n=Zetx@65.89.103.130)`
`00:25.42`	`lcuk`	`plus, we have not seen RGB updates from any library yet at full speed, full resolution`
`00:31.00`	`KotCzarny`	`grrr`
`00:31.05`	`KotCzarny`	`you and your absolute paths`
`00:31.06`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`00:32.25`	`KotCzarny`	`hmm`
`00:32.36`	`KotCzarny`	`have you seen the first few pixels on the right?`
`00:32.48`	`lcuk`	`with the scaly thing?`
`00:32.59`	`KotCzarny`	`no, i mean on that scrolling thing`
`00:33.12`	`lcuk`	`yes`
`00:33.12`	`KotCzarny`	`when text goes up and down`
`00:33.38`	`lcuk`	`im not even sure if thats the ideal version anymore, its the closest i could get it`
`00:33.40`	`KotCzarny`	`interesting as it goes out of/in sync`
`00:33.50`	`lcuk`	`it seems to miss a frame every second`
`00:33.58`	`lcuk`	`! ding`
`00:34.06`	`AStorm`	`Apparently I'll be able to drive N8x0 from 1x AA even`
`00:34.08`	`KotCzarny`	`mm?`
`00:34.17`	`lcuk`	`dont we have ermmmmm whats the power/cpu updater thingy toolbar button whatsit`
`00:34.18`	`KotCzarny`	`astorm: tested or theory?`
`00:34.19`	`*** join/#maemo MoRpHeUz (n=morphbr@189.70.58.68)`
`00:34.19`	`AStorm`	`I'll make such an option in my battery pack`
`00:34.27`	`AStorm`	`KotCzarny: 100% possible`
`00:34.31`	`KotCzarny`	`lcuk: yes we have`
`00:34.44`	`AStorm`	`if it can live off 400 mA, surely`
`00:34.44`	`lcuk`	`that refreshes once a second and takes bandwidth from the lcd`
`00:35.04`	`AStorm`	`although efficiency will be shiz ;) like 75%`
`00:35.10`	`KotCzarny`	`erm`
`00:35.11`	`KotCzarny`	`:/`
`00:35.12`	`*** part/#maemo trbs (n=trbs@82-171-82-139.ip.telfort.nl)`
`00:35.13`	`lcuk`	`it refreshes even if you are doing other things. i noticed when i was messing with the framebuffer right at the start`
`00:35.38`	`AStorm`	`KotCzarny: Unless I plug that into battery port ;P`
`00:35.49`	`*** join/#maemo lopz (i=Gentoo-D@unaffiliated/lopz)`
`00:36.02`	`AStorm`	`then I would get about 80%`
`00:36.05`	`KotCzarny`	`astorm: the point is to make that battery pack complimentary`
`00:36.09`	`AStorm`	`yes`
`00:36.17`	`AStorm`	`so, 2x AA is more real`
`00:36.28`	`*** join/#maemo dopper (n=dopper@bas1-guelph22-1177617205.dsl.bell.ca)`
`00:36.32`	`KotCzarny`	`and it would fit along top/bottom/back`
`00:36.33`	`AStorm`	`800 mA at 89% is good`
`00:36.33`	`lcuk`	`4aa would be minimum for mw`
`00:36.50`	`AStorm`	`lcuk: nowhere near minimum`
`00:36.54`	`AStorm`	`much more than required`
`00:37.00`	`AStorm`	`I'm thinking NiMH, btw`
`00:37.05`	`AStorm`	`Not alkaline ;P`
`00:37.25`	`AStorm`	`would need a switch for normal battery too`
`00:37.30`	`lcuk`	`but i want longevity - play all day on one charge and leave the pack charging at night`
`00:37.37`	`AStorm`	`yup`
`00:37.42`	`AStorm`	`2x AA = 2800 mAh`
`00:37.49`	`AStorm`	`coupled with internal battery, that's a lot`
`00:37.54`	`KotCzarny`	`astorm: include possibility to piggyback those`
`00:38.02`	`KotCzarny`	`ie. to use 2 x 2AA`
`00:38.03`	`AStorm`	`this is inherent`
`00:38.06`	`KotCzarny`	`or 3 x 2AA`
`00:38.08`	`AStorm`	`ah, that, hmm`
`00:38.16`	`AStorm`	`good idea`
`00:38.27`	`AStorm`	`simple to add, if I get proper plugs`
`00:38.28`	`lcuk`	`but the AAs will be recharging the internal battery pack? i need to fully charge myself at least twice to do a whole day`
`00:38.34`	`AStorm`	`lcuk: they will`
`00:38.44`	`AStorm`	`they'll both charge it and power the device`
`00:39.17`	`KotCzarny`	`hmm`
`00:39.33`	`lcuk`	`im gonna have to get one of these extension chargers before i go on holiday - i will give you results`
`00:39.34`	`*** join/#maemo zoran (n=zoran@239.45.broadband3.iol.cz)`
`00:39.34`	`AStorm`	`it's essentially additional 2400 mAh`
`00:39.38`	`KotCzarny`	`i whink 890mA is reached only when charging + using the device`
`00:39.44`	`KotCzarny`	`otherwise it's much less`
`00:39.48`	`AStorm`	`KotCzarny: no, more can be even`
`00:39.51`	`AStorm`	`up to 1A`
`00:39.58`	`*** join/#maemo mk500 (n=mk500@netblock-72-25-104-105.dslextreme.com)`
`00:40.02`	`AStorm`	`that's why the device is straining AC-4E sometimes ;P`
`00:40.05`	`KotCzarny`	`because it goes into trickle charge mode`
`00:40.10`	`AStorm`	`yes`
`00:40.21`	`AStorm`	`then it's about up to 250-300 mA`
`00:40.26`	`AStorm`	`in full load`
`00:40.32`	`lcuk`	`right, goognight`
`00:40.35`	`KotCzarny`	`night night`
`00:40.36`	`AStorm`	`so quite high efficiency`
`00:40.36`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`00:40.39`	`AStorm`	`night`
`00:40.41`	`KotCzarny`	`astorm: more i think`
`00:40.47`	`*** join/#maemo behdad (n=behdad@CPE001217b19226-CM0012c9c84bc4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`00:40.47`	`KotCzarny`	`3-4h of usage`
`00:41.00`	`KotCzarny`	`on 1500mAh internal battery`
`00:41.02`	`AStorm`	`KotCzarny: 4-5h`
`00:41.11`	`AStorm`	`let's say 4h`
`00:41.17`	`KotCzarny`	`k`
`00:41.21`	`KotCzarny`	`420mA then`
`00:41.25`	`AStorm`	`400 mA`
`00:41.40`	`AStorm`	`that includes various losses`
`00:42.15`	`KotCzarny`	`lcuk: btw. no reboot is needed`
`00:42.17`	`KotCzarny`	`only kill -9`
`00:42.18`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`00:42.30`	`AStorm`	`well`
`00:43.10`	`AStorm`	`with 1x AA (NiCd/NiMH), the max current I'll be able to get will be about 400 mA, but that's old data`
`00:43.18`	`AStorm`	`these puppies have since improved`
`00:43.22`	`KotCzarny`	`yup`
`00:43.32`	`KotCzarny`	`you shouldn't worry about aa cell`
`00:43.36`	`AStorm`	`yep`
`00:44.00`	`KotCzarny`	`hmm`
`00:44.35`	`KotCzarny`	`6x 2.4Ah AA could be long time`
`00:44.36`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`00:44.56`	`AStorm`	`ok, have to drop into some shop, but a few MAX1703, schottky diodes, resistors, caps and inductors ;>`
`00:45.07`	`AStorm`	`KotCzarny: like a few days of usage`
`00:45.27`	`AStorm`	`6x 2800 mAh would give somewhere like 6x 2600 mAh, due to inefficiency of step-up`
`00:45.34`	`KotCzarny`	`also you should include cutoff switch`
`00:45.42`	`AStorm`	`although the link mode could use 4x AA almost directly`
`00:45.47`	`AStorm`	`with very high efficiency`
`00:45.50`	`AStorm`	`yes, I will`
`00:46.16`	`KotCzarny`	`because constant trickle charging may be damaging for internal battery`
`00:46.36`	`AStorm`	`no, it isn`
`00:46.37`	`AStorm`	`'t`
`00:46.39`	`KotCzarny`	`it is`
`00:46.41`	`AStorm`	`it's Li-Poly after all`
`00:46.42`	`KotCzarny`	`believe me`
`00:46.50`	`AStorm`	`and it's not trickle-charged`
`00:46.55`	`AStorm`	`:>`
`00:46.57`	`KotCzarny`	`it is`
`00:47.06`	`KotCzarny`	`from what i have seen`
`00:47.14`	`AStorm`	`I suspect not, just left to unload for a while`
`00:47.18`	`AStorm`	`then charged back up`
`00:47.45`	`KotCzarny`	`http://mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/n800/kcbatt/batt2gp.png`
`00:47.53`	`KotCzarny`	`i believe pink is charging rate`
`00:47.57`	`KotCzarny`	`or something`
`00:47.57`	`*** join/#maemo gribouille_ (n=user@96.27.100-84.rev.gaoland.net)`
`00:48.16`	`*** join/#maemo gribouille (n=rrrrrr@96.27.100-84.rev.gaoland.net)`
`00:48.20`	`KotCzarny`	`i mean violet`
`00:48.34`	`AStorm`	`where's the AC?`
`00:48.45`	`KotCzarny`	`i believe it's violet`
`00:48.51`	`*** join/#maemo kb7sqi (n=kb7sqi@cpe-075-183-106-019.triad.res.rr.com)`
`00:48.56`	`AStorm`	`if pink is, then it's definitely not trickle charging :>`
`00:49.10`	`KotCzarny`	`because it goes from 0 to some value after connecting charger`
`00:49.29`	`KotCzarny`	`look at the data from 24/03`
`00:49.50`	`KotCzarny`	`it charges for an hour then goes into some jumping state`
`00:49.57`	`gribouille_`	`not bad xchat on the tablet`
`00:50.19`	`AStorm`	`yup`
`00:50.28`	`AStorm`	`KotCzarny: I think it's protecting from overheating`
`00:50.32`	`*** join/#maemo TPC (n=andreas@pdpc/supporter/student/TPC)`
`00:50.40`	`KotCzarny`	`but then it goes into flat line`
`00:50.48`	`KotCzarny`	`with some spikes`
`00:51.08`	`KotCzarny`	`and i think reading is inverted`
`00:51.29`	`KotCzarny`	`excluding 'not connected' state, which is at real 0`
`00:51.44`	`AStorm`	`which spikes?`
`00:51.51`	`AStorm`	`these small at the bottom? it's noise`
`00:52.04`	`AStorm`	`trickle charge would have to be higher current`
`00:52.09`	`AStorm`	`like at least 1%`
`00:52.15`	`KotCzarny`	`hum`
`00:52.29`	`KotCzarny`	`on the second though you may be right`
`00:52.39`	`KotCzarny`	`it may be a fluctuation because of using the device`
`00:53.26`	`KotCzarny`	`btw. temperature reading is also inverted`
`00:53.38`	`KotCzarny`	`ie. hhigh on sclae mean low temp`
`00:53.53`	`AStorm`	`no`
`00:53.54`	`KotCzarny`	`temp. is blue and red`
`00:54.02`	`AStorm`	`temp. is read, right`
`00:54.10`	`KotCzarny`	`yes, because i know when it was hot.`
`00:54.10`	`AStorm`	`note that it is charging only when temp is low`
`00:54.12`	`KotCzarny`	`believe me on that`
`00:54.33`	`AStorm`	`:>`
`00:54.56`	`KotCzarny`	`ie. look at 24-25/03`
`00:55.04`	`KotCzarny`	`when it was starting to discharge`
`00:55.10`	`KotCzarny`	`temp. was high`
`00:55.21`	`KotCzarny`	`(and reading was low)`
`00:55.46`	`KotCzarny`	`then after i went to sleep it gradually fallen`
`00:55.54`	`KotCzarny`	`(and reading was high)`
`00:56.28`	`AStorm`	`the slate blue might be battery use`
`00:56.58`	`KotCzarny`	`what is slate blue?`
`00:57.15`	`KotCzarny`	`you have some legend in the middle of the pic`
`00:57.24`	`AStorm`	`#10`
`00:57.40`	`KotCzarny`	`i think it may be op_state`
`00:58.12`	`gribouille_`	`in xchat, I don't see where to put the passwords for servers. Does anyone know ?`
`00:58.31`	`AStorm`	`in Network window`
`00:58.35`	`AStorm`	`get to it using menu`
`00:58.41`	`AStorm`	`or ctrl+something`
`01:00.02`	`AStorm`	`this kcbatt could be useful for me - where do I get it and will it work on N810?`
`01:00.20`	`KotCzarny`	`astorm, same server`
`01:00.25`	`KotCzarny`	`just go up`
`01:00.58`	`AStorm`	`and how do I make a chart?`
`01:01.06`	`KotCzarny`	`there should be a subfolder`
`01:01.29`	`KotCzarny`	`usually i just ran the bin in a screen session`
`01:02.30`	`AStorm`	`let me check`
`01:02.30`	`KotCzarny`	`i think it reports battery voltage too`
`01:02.34`	`KotCzarny`	`but in unscaled values`
`01:02.35`	`AStorm`	`my N810 should still be charging`
`01:02.42`	`AStorm`	`mhm, no problem with it`
`01:03.22`	`KotCzarny`	`btw. if you gather some data let me look at it too`
`01:03.38`	`KotCzarny`	`i'm interested if n810 is much different`
`01:03.42`	`KotCzarny`	`from n800`
`01:03.46`	`*** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com)`
`01:04.01`	`KotCzarny`	`not in values, but more in usage patterns`
`01:06.17`	`*** join/#maemo christefano (n=christef@adsl-69-230-175-116.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net)`
`01:09.07`	`*** part/#maemo gribouille_ (n=user@96.27.100-84.rev.gaoland.net)`
`01:09.19`	`*** join/#maemo alex-weej_ (n=alex@cpc1-acto9-0-0-cust931.brnt.cable.ntl.com)`
`01:10.14`	`*** join/#maemo alex-weej_ (n=alex@cpc1-acto9-0-0-cust931.brnt.cable.ntl.com)`
`01:10.54`	`*** join/#maemo briand (n=brian@c-68-35-254-149.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)`
`01:13.03`	`AStorm`	`hmm, while charging, its telling me like, 4% or 1% ;P`
`01:13.20`	`KotCzarny`	`don't look at % number`
`01:13.25`	`KotCzarny`	`it's only a guesstimate`
`01:13.31`	`KotCzarny`	`look at the field #8`
`01:13.31`	`AStorm`	`reall guesstimate ;P`
`01:13.37`	`AStorm`	`#8 is 394 or so`
`01:13.49`	`AStorm`	`and varies a lot`
`01:13.53`	`AStorm`	`between runs`
`01:14.03`	`KotCzarny`	`yup`
`01:14.07`	`KotCzarny`	`it's raw read`
`01:14.12`	`KotCzarny`	`without any processing`
`01:14.54`	`KotCzarny`	`also #3 is the charging rate i think`
`01:14.58`	`KotCzarny`	`or charging voltage`
`01:15.30`	`AStorm`	`8 is increasing apparently`
`01:15.40`	`KotCzarny`	`just look at generated png`
`01:15.44`	`AStorm`	`3 is 0xdd`
`01:15.51`	`AStorm`	`nah, I don't have the script yet, wait :-)`
`01:16.11`	`KotCzarny`	`btw. to gather data use 'batt' binary`
`01:16.17`	`KotCzarny`	`kcbatt processes data`
`01:16.32`	`AStorm`	`yup`
`01:16.38`	`AStorm`	`but not kcbatt -d ;)`
`01:16.51`	`AStorm`	`wait, d/ling`
`01:16.59`	`KotCzarny`	`but if you gather data with kcbatt you will have to modify php script`
`01:17.06`	`KotCzarny`	`that will prepare data for gnuplot`
`01:17.07`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`01:17.21`	`*** part/#maemo kb7sqi (n=kb7sqi@cpe-075-183-106-019.triad.res.rr.com)`
`01:17.22`	`AStorm`	`heh, php, ugh`
`01:17.35`	`KotCzarny`	`you can write converting script in python`
`01:17.39`	`AStorm`	`sure`
`01:17.43`	`KotCzarny`	`it's just a shuffling fields`
`01:17.47`	`AStorm`	`heh`
`01:17.58`	`AStorm`	`actually, for kcbatt, parsing would be even easier`
`01:18.04`	`KotCzarny`	`and hex to int conversion`
`01:18.13`	`KotCzarny`	`astorm, you can modify the batt.c`
`01:18.18`	`AStorm`	`I know`
`01:18.21`	`KotCzarny`	`and just generate data in format you want`
`01:18.22`	`AStorm`	`but I'm lazy ;P`
`01:18.39`	`AStorm`	`and have to add gnuplot to the IT`
`01:18.44`	`*** join/#maemo gribouille (n=user@96.27.100-84.rev.gaoland.net)`
`01:18.49`	`KotCzarny`	`actually writing script in python will take more work than modifying printf`
`01:18.50`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`01:18.57`	`AStorm`	`ya`
`01:18.58`	`KotCzarny`	`or just copy .dat file to pc`
`01:18.59`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`01:19.36`	`KotCzarny`	`i like php because of preg_* functions`
`01:19.47`	`KotCzarny`	`and easiness of operations on arrays`
`01:19.53`	`AStorm`	`Python has perl regexes too :P`
`01:20.04`	`AStorm`	`arrays? who needs them when we have dictionaries and lists?`
`01:20.08`	`AStorm`	`;P`
`01:20.20`	`KotCzarny`	`i will convert to python one day`
`01:20.22`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`01:20.34`	`KotCzarny`	`but for now it's faster to write code in php`
`01:20.35`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`01:21.02`	`KotCzarny`	`i should make some tiny cli php port for IT`
`01:21.20`	`AStorm`	`there is normal php`
`01:21.47`	`*** join/#maemo unixSnob (n=jgombos@68-31-58-139.area4.spcsdns.net)`
`01:21.50`	`KotCzarny`	`-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 3303700 2007-09-19 20:49 /usr/bin/php*`
`01:21.51`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
`01:22.01`	`AStorm`	`huge, eh?`
`01:22.26`	`KotCzarny`	`that's kitchen sink for anyone in need`
`01:22.48`	`KotCzarny`	`+ classes and modules in /usr/share of course`
`01:22.59`	`AStorm`	`;P`
`01:23.11`	`AStorm`	`Python is still smaller ;)`
`01:23.38`	`KotCzarny`	`last time i checked package was ~15mb`
`01:23.39`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
`01:23.55`	`KotCzarny`	`which translated to ~40-60mb of disk space`
`01:24.07`	`KotCzarny`	`(for python)`
`01:24.21`	`AStorm`	`not that large`
`01:24.41`	`AStorm`	`it's mostly .py files, which is text, just bloats out on ext`
`01:24.46`	`*** join/#maemo astro76 (n=jtaji@unaffiliated/astro76)`
`01:24.48`	`KotCzarny`	`yup`
`01:24.50`	`KotCzarny`	`python-2.5.2-i486-1.tgz 01-Mar-2008 19:53 15M`
`01:24.52`	`KotCzarny`	`15mb`
`01:25.02`	`KotCzarny`	`let me check installed size`
`01:25.09`	`AStorm`	`i486? check IT one ;P`
`01:25.16`	`AStorm`	`there is one too`
`01:25.41`	`KotCzarny`	`UNCOMPRESSED PACKAGE SIZE: 65500 K`
`01:25.44`	`KotCzarny`	`64mb`
`01:25.44`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`01:25.58`	`KotCzarny`	`UNCOMPRESSED PACKAGE SIZE: 19520 K`
`01:26.01`	`KotCzarny`	`and that's for php`
`01:26.02`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
`01:26.14`	`AStorm`	`wicked`
`01:26.17`	`KotCzarny`	`yup`
`01:26.20`	`AStorm`	`its impossible`
`01:26.22`	`KotCzarny`	`as i said, modules, classes`
`01:26.28`	`AStorm`	`must be docs`
`01:27.05`	`KotCzarny`	`21M python-2.5.2`
`01:27.09`	`KotCzarny`	`21mb of dosc`
`01:27.10`	`KotCzarny`	`docs`
`01:27.11`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`01:27.18`	`KotCzarny`	`still 44mb vs 19`
`01:27.35`	`AStorm`	`38 MB here on Gentoo, ext4`
`01:27.42`	`KotCzarny`	`still 2x more`
`01:27.44`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`01:28.13`	`AStorm`	`hehe`
`01:28.16`	`AStorm`	`I'll check php`
`01:28.27`	`AStorm`	`17 MB`
`01:29.09`	`KotCzarny`	`i have seen working perl in ~500kb`
`01:29.23`	`KotCzarny`	`and i believe there was similiar version for php too`
`01:29.31`	`KotCzarny`	`(on openwrt)`
`01:31.02`	`AStorm`	`I think Python is very shrinkable too`
`01:31.09`	`KotCzarny`	`yes`
`01:31.10`	`AStorm`	`lib-dynload takes 3 MB`
`01:31.23`	`AStorm`	`you can ditch all the .py files too`
`01:31.31`	`AStorm`	`(after compiling them)`
`01:32.24`	`AStorm`	`huh, full collection of .pyc takes 12M`
`01:32.31`	`KotCzarny`	`fun`
`01:32.32`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`01:32.32`	`AStorm`	`on ext4`
`01:33.00`	`AStorm`	`next 12M is .pyo`
`01:33.17`	`AStorm`	`4M of .so files`
`01:33.51`	`AStorm`	`13M of .py files`
`01:35.34`	`AStorm`	`largest module is the test one :>`
`01:36.22`	`KotCzarny`	`The average human being produces about a litre of saliva every day.`
`01:36.23`	`KotCzarny`	`:>`
`01:36.36`	`AStorm`	`yup, why not?`
`01:36.43`	`KotCzarny`	`fun fact`
`01:36.49`	`KotCzarny`	`that's 365l/year`
`01:37.00`	`KotCzarny`	`imagine that amount of salive`
`01:37.02`	`KotCzarny`	`saliva`
`01:37.17`	`AStorm`	`hmm, no gnuplot in repos... wth?`
`01:37.36`	`AStorm`	`gimme a port :-)`
`01:37.40`	`KotCzarny`	`pf`
`01:37.48`	`KotCzarny`	`just use sshfs`
`01:37.48`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`01:37.53`	`AStorm`	`blah blah`
`01:37.55`	`AStorm`	`I know`
`01:38.03`	`AStorm`	`but I want gnuplot on IT`
`01:38.07`	`AStorm`	`for some plotting`
`01:38.10`	`KotCzarny`	`let me see`
`01:38.23`	`KotCzarny`	`if it compiles on the first try`
`01:38.56`	`AStorm`	`whee, gnumeric was updated`
`01:39.36`	`KotCzarny`	`why don't you setup sbox on your pc? :)`
`01:39.47`	`AStorm`	`because I have to code stupid SOAP ;P`
`01:40.00`	`AStorm`	`I'll do during national holiday weekend ;)`
`01:40.13`	`trollasaurus`	`KotCzarny, The solution was pretty easy... screenshots coming soon`
`01:40.38`	`KotCzarny`	`huh`
`01:40.46`	`KotCzarny`	`solution to what?`
`01:41.05`	`KotCzarny`	`had little sleep today`
`01:41.07`	`trollasaurus`	`Emulating a Nokia N800 with QEMU`
`01:41.15`	`trollasaurus`	`(Running Maemo)`
`01:41.16`	`*** join/#maemo Crfrod (n=Crfrod@88.214.193.26)`
`01:41.17`	`ImMelody`	`nini`
`01:41.20`	`*** part/#maemo ImMelody (n=Melody_L@ool-457709f8.dyn.optonline.net)`
`01:41.21`	`AStorm`	`uh? there's a port already`
`01:41.26`	`AStorm`	`so?`
`01:41.34`	`trollasaurus`	`AStorm, Right, but it doesn't work :-P`
`01:41.43`	`AStorm`	`no, it does, it's used in Scratchbox`
`01:42.00`	`trollasaurus`	`I thought Scratchbox used an x86 ?`
`01:42.02`	`AStorm`	`ofc not everything is emulated`
`01:42.15`	`AStorm`	`trollasaurus: both ARM + emulation or sbrsh`
`01:42.18`	`AStorm`	`and x86`
`01:42.24`	`KotCzarny`	`sbox used some tools natively and some emulated stuff`
`01:42.26`	`trollasaurus`	`This runs the Nokia blessed firmware unmodified`
`01:42.40`	`*** join/#maemo playya__ (n=playya@pD9E0889F.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`01:43.07`	`KotCzarny`	`erm`
`01:43.11`	`KotCzarny`	`so many deps`
`01:43.16`	`AStorm`	`oh, new mplayer`
`01:43.17`	`KotCzarny`	`hates debian sometimes`
`01:43.17`	`AStorm`	`.27`
`01:43.30`	`trollasaurus`	`hates Debian all the time`
`01:43.33`	`KotCzarny`	`astorm: yup, ssvb announced it few days ago`
`01:43.40`	`AStorm`	`KotCzarny: well, it deps on X, gfx libs, etc`
`01:43.48`	`AStorm`	`probably cairo`
`01:43.51`	`KotCzarny`	`dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: texinfo (>= 4.8) texlive-latex-base \| tetex-bin texlive-latex-recommended \| tetex-extra libgd2-noxpm-dev \| libgd-dev libwxgtk2.6-dev`
`01:43.59`	`KotCzarny`	`fun, isn't it?`
`01:43.59`	`AStorm`	`that should be optional`
`01:44.00`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`01:44.11`	`AStorm`	`libwxgtk is for wx UI`
`01:44.18`	`AStorm`	`tex is for latex output`
`01:44.23`	`KotCzarny`	`but libgd is essential`
`01:44.25`	`KotCzarny`	`i think`
`01:44.33`	`AStorm`	`yes`
`01:44.49`	`AStorm`	`does modest .17-2 works with gmail?`
`01:44.50`	`KotCzarny`	`and nonexistend in armel packages`
`01:45.06`	`AStorm`	`libgd2? naaah, should be`
`01:45.50`	`KotCzarny`	`no luck with apt-cache`
`01:45.53`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Works fine, AStorm.`
`01:46.03`	`AStorm`	`GeneralAntilles: great`
`01:46.20`	`AStorm`	`I hope .27 has flv performance improvements`
`01:47.45`	`KotCzarny`	`libgd should be without user/ in section ?`
`01:49.11`	`AStorm`	`might be, who knows`
`01:49.44`	`AStorm`	`hmm, weird, clock on my N is consistently 1h off`
`01:49.51`	`AStorm`	`I guess DST didn't record in retu`
`01:50.01`	`KotCzarny`	`grrr.`
`01:50.04`	`AStorm`	`and local is used for the clock`
`01:50.10`	`KotCzarny`	`no love from libgd2`
`01:50.14`	`KotCzarny`	`even more deps.`
`01:50.18`	`AStorm`	`;>`
`01:50.22`	`AStorm`	`like?`
`01:51.43`	`unixSnob`	`i hooked up a USB mouse to an n800... and no pointer`
`01:51.53`	`KotCzarny`	`life`
`01:51.54`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
`01:52.05`	`KotCzarny`	`it's possible to enable it though`
`01:52.10`	`KotCzarny`	`with a simple folder renaming`
`01:52.15`	`unixSnob`	`really.. cool`
`01:52.16`	`KotCzarny`	`in /usr/share/icons i think`
`01:52.20`	`KotCzarny`	`(and a reboot)`
`01:52.28`	`AStorm`	`yup`
`01:52.34`	`AStorm`	`you can install your own theme too`
`01:52.42`	`AStorm`	`and switch cursor themes w/o reboot even`
`01:52.51`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`01:52.51`	`AStorm`	`I have to remember how to do that`
`01:52.53`	`KotCzarny`	`more work`
`01:53.03`	`KotCzarny`	`dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: gnulib (>= 0.0.20041014-2) devscripts (>= 2.10.7) patchutils (>= 0.2.25) libfontconfig-dev d-shlibs (>= 0.30)`
`01:53.05`	`unixSnob`	`i've had to reboot a couple times lately.. it gets into a locked scrolling mode`
`01:53.08`	`KotCzarny`	`that's for libgd2`
`01:53.13`	`AStorm`	`build deps`
`01:53.17`	`AStorm`	`not run deps :>`
`01:53.23`	`KotCzarny`	`yeah`
`01:53.27`	`KotCzarny`	`but i don't have them`
`01:53.27`	`AStorm`	`:-)`
`01:53.31`	`AStorm`	`these are mostly minor`
`01:53.32`	`KotCzarny`	`so no build`
`01:53.36`	`KotCzarny`	`sure`
`01:53.39`	`AStorm`	`so grab them`
`01:53.42`	`KotCzarny`	`not today`
`01:53.43`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`01:53.55`	`KotCzarny`	`as i said, if it build without much fuss`
`01:53.56`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
`01:53.59`	`KotCzarny`	`*builds`
`01:54.04`	`*** join/#maemo slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo)`
`01:54.04`	`AStorm`	`hehe`
`01:54.17`	`unixSnob`	`any of you keep a keyboard in your car, so you can type on the NIT while driving?`
`01:54.17`	`KotCzarny`	`which is not happening`
`01:54.26`	`KotCzarny`	`doesn't have a car`
`01:54.30`	`KotCzarny`	`but i have a kb`
`01:54.33`	`KotCzarny`	`does it count?`
`01:54.34`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`01:54.35`	`AStorm`	`ok, how do I switch clocks to UTC and change timezone to be software-applied?`
`01:54.53`	`KotCzarny`	`change your home city in clock applet`
`01:54.54`	`AStorm`	`unixSnob: that's crazy and dangerous`
`01:54.54`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`01:55.03`	`AStorm`	`KotCzarny: I did, it's correct`
`01:55.07`	`KotCzarny`	`hmm`
`01:55.13`	`GeneralAntilles`	`unixSnob, . . .`
`01:55.14`	`unixSnob`	`well keyboarding in the car is a unique problem.. because it will involve cutting a hole to access the USB port`
`01:55.15`	`KotCzarny`	`then your proggy uses wrong gettime func`
`01:55.16`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`01:55.23`	`AStorm`	`hehe`
`01:55.29`	`KotCzarny`	`maybe some hack with /etc/TZ ?`
`01:55.30`	`AStorm`	`the clock is off`
`01:55.34`	`ds3`	`add voice recogonition`
`01:55.42`	`KotCzarny`	`busybox is notorious in that point`
`01:55.53`	`unixSnob`	`I've been able to participate in forums while driving.. but my messages are short`
`01:55.54`	`KotCzarny`	`try echo CEST > /etc/TZ`
`01:56.13`	`unixSnob`	`i figure the keyboard will remedy that`
`01:56.19`	`AStorm`	`heh`
`01:56.42`	`unixSnob`	`i wouldn't do IRC while on the road`
`01:56.56`	`KotCzarny`	`i think it's useful in traffic jams`
`01:57.04`	`unixSnob`	`good point`
`01:57.04`	`KotCzarny`	`when you move <1km/h`
`01:57.07`	`AStorm`	`KotCzarny: no such file here`
`01:57.17`	`KotCzarny`	`astorm: create one`
`01:57.18`	`KotCzarny`	`doh`
`01:57.30`	`AStorm`	`made, and?`
`01:57.33`	`unixSnob`	`or on a highway w/ little traffic`
`01:57.37`	`KotCzarny`	`and relogin`
`01:57.43`	`KotCzarny`	`open new term and see`
`01:57.46`	`KotCzarny`	`or just reopen app`
`01:57.51`	`*** join/#maemo philipl (i=1000@c-67-164-5-76.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`01:57.54`	`AStorm`	`/etc/localtime is correct`
`01:57.56`	`GeneralAntilles`	`You're nuts, unixSnob.`
`01:58.09`	`KotCzarny`	`busybox doesn't use timeconfig, only TZ`
`01:58.11`	`AStorm`	`tz is ok too, according to date`
`01:58.15`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Typing while driving is high idiocy.`
`01:58.20`	`AStorm`	`but time is 1h off ;P`
`01:58.38`	`KotCzarny`	`that's what TZ is for`
`01:58.39`	`*** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=salveti@189.44.51.122)`
`01:58.39`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`01:58.41`	`AStorm`	`Have to set ntpdate`
`01:58.52`	`AStorm`	`KotCzarny: no, TZ is correct (according to date proggy)`
`01:59.19`	`AStorm`	`I think retu is wrong, or something`
`01:59.25`	`KotCzarny`	`anyway, off to ff8`
`01:59.26`	`unixSnob`	`well, I'm a pilot, so I'm used to having to concentrate on action in front of me while operating electronics. And I consider the NIT a way to train for that`
`01:59.43`	`AStorm`	`unixSnob: do it somewhere else than on the road, please`
`01:59.45`	`AStorm`	`:-)`
`01:59.51`	`KotCzarny`	`yup`
`01:59.54`	`GeneralAntilles`	`You don't have hard objects 20 feet in front of you while flying. :\`
`01:59.56`	`KotCzarny`	`much more noise on road`
`01:59.57`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`02:00.07`	`KotCzarny`	`high frequency noise`
`02:00.08`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
`02:00.09`	`GeneralAntilles`	`When you fuck up while in the air, it's usually only you that pays`
`02:00.21`	`KotCzarny`	`ga: not true, see wtc`
`02:00.22`	`GeneralAntilles`	`When you do it on the interstate, you're putting other people in danger.`
`02:00.22`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
`02:00.36`	`GeneralAntilles`	`That, in my opinion, is incredibly irresponsible.`
`02:00.38`	`KotCzarny`	`or any bigger plane crash`
`02:01.01`	`AStorm`	`KotCzarny: k, there may be hard buildings`
`02:01.08`	`AStorm`	`and ground too`
`02:01.15`	`AStorm`	`sometimes other planes ;P`
`02:01.25`	`KotCzarny`	`and ice clouds`
`02:01.25`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`02:02.06`	`unixSnob`	`The way pilots handle it is look up most of the time.. look down to press one key, and look up again.. never pressing more than one key w/out looking up`
`02:02.38`	`*** join/#maemo gribouille (n=rrrrrr@96.27.100-84.rev.gaoland.net)`
`02:02.59`	`AStorm`	`unixSnob: still that makes at least 20ms in which you can crash`
`02:03.04`	`unixSnob`	`And that's how I write a forum post while driving.. one key at a time`
`02:03.06`	`AStorm`	`with planes, it's unlikely :>`
`02:03.16`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Doesn't matter how you do it.`
`02:03.27`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Taking your attention off the road is a good way to get yourself and others killed.`
`02:03.30`	`unixSnob`	`well w/ a keyboard, I don't even have to look down`
`02:03.31`	`AStorm`	`but in a car, 20ms might be enough to crash, esp. if driving >= 100 km/h`
`02:03.41`	`KotCzarny`	`yup`
`02:03.46`	`KotCzarny`	`bt kb can be useful`
`02:03.47`	`unixSnob`	`I can type w/out looking at the keyboard`
`02:03.50`	`AStorm`	`and yup, lack of attention is what kills :p`
`02:04.04`	`AStorm`	`btw, where is the retutime tool?`
`02:04.17`	`KotCzarny`	`<PROTECTED>`
`02:04.25`	`AStorm`	`damnit`
`02:04.29`	`AStorm`	`fanoush removed it`
`02:04.36`	`KotCzarny`	`just a guess`
`02:04.37`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`02:04.38`	`AStorm`	`at least thinks it's unnecessary`
`02:04.43`	`AStorm`	`idjit`
`02:04.48`	`KotCzarny`	`mail him`
`02:04.49`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`02:04.50`	`AStorm`	`I'll have to fix the initfs then`
`02:04.55`	`KotCzarny`	`or just copy to regular fs`
`02:04.57`	`*** join/#maemo Tama^2 (n=me@ip-118-90-51-155.xdsl.xnet.co.nz)`
`02:05.00`	`AStorm`	`ya`
`02:05.12`	`AStorm`	`but first I have to get orig. initfs unpacked and mountable`
`02:05.19`	`unixSnob`	`i'm thinking there must be a device out there to make it easier to steer w/ knees`
`02:05.26`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Nokia should pay him to do kernel hacking for the community.`
`02:05.30`	`AStorm`	`unixSnob: ubermad`
`02:05.40`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Yeah, they're called your hands.`
`02:05.48`	`KotCzarny`	`unixsnob, there was a kb embedded in pants`
`02:05.51`	`AStorm`	`unixSnob: maybe steering by eyes?`
`02:05.54`	`johnx`	`knee-hands!`
`02:05.54`	`KotCzarny`	`complete with trackball`
`02:05.55`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`02:05.56`	`AStorm`	`you look where you drive ;P`
`02:06.08`	`ds3`	`just take the train`
`02:06.10`	`AStorm`	`could be fun to use ;P`
`02:06.10`	`unixSnob`	`kotczarny - i heard about that keyboard recently`
`02:06.19`	`GeneralAntilles`	`AStorm, just hope you don't pass any hot women on the sidewalk. O_O`
`02:06.26`	`AStorm`	`GeneralAntilles: hahaha`
`02:06.28`	`AStorm`	`yup`
`02:06.31`	`gribouille`	`does anyone know where I can find a command like netsat for IT OS2008 ?`
`02:06.42`	`AStorm`	`you mean netstat?`
`02:06.42`	`johnx`	`busybox has one`
`02:06.45`	`unixSnob`	`ds3 - apparently you're not in the US :)`
`02:06.47`	`johnx`	`you want the real thing?`
`02:06.48`	`gribouille`	`astyes`
`02:06.53`	`gribouille`	`AStorm, yes`
`02:07.07`	`KotCzarny`	`http://www.vouspensez.com/2008/04/22/the-geekiest-pants-ever/`
`02:07.08`	`KotCzarny`	`this one`
`02:07.22`	`AStorm`	`KotCzarny: I'm feeling lazy, could you put retutime on your server?`
`02:07.31`	`KotCzarny`	`astorm: where it is?`
`02:07.37`	`KotCzarny`	`i have fanoush's initfs too`
`02:07.37`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`02:07.54`	`AStorm`	`should be in /mnt/initfs/sbin`
`02:08.17`	`AStorm`	`blah`
`02:08.18`	`AStorm`	`it is there`
`02:08.24`	`KotCzarny`	`hehe`
`02:08.25`	`AStorm`	`/mnt/initfs/usr/bin/retutime`
`02:08.33`	`KotCzarny`	`so you have it?`
`02:08.33`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`02:08.35`	`AStorm`	`bashes head against keyboard`
`02:08.36`	`AStorm`	`yup`
`02:08.52`	`ds3`	`unixSnob: yes, the People's Republic of California has succeded :P`
`02:09.04`	`unixSnob`	`thinks those pants would be better if the keyboard were a strap on device`
`02:09.06`	`gribouille`	`netstat gives the following error message : netstat: warning, got bogus unix line`
`02:09.18`	`ds3`	`trains are fine modes of transportation`
`02:09.34`	`AStorm`	`ok, retu is keeping time in UTC`
`02:09.38`	`unixSnob`	`CA only has one overpriced metro rail, right?`
`02:09.48`	`unixSnob`	`It's not good coverage`
`02:09.55`	`ds3`	`nope, we got 132493289230492138948123904890123489012849023 different rail systems`
`02:10.07`	`KotCzarny`	`rail system overflow`
`02:10.14`	`unixSnob`	`I figure if I get back to CA again, I'll either live next door to work, or fly to work.`
`02:10.26`	`AStorm`	`US fails at rail systems`
`02:10.33`	`KotCzarny`	`not true`
`02:10.36`	`AStorm`	`it does`
`02:10.38`	`KotCzarny`	`i find nj path quite nice`
`02:10.39`	`AStorm`	`no trains there`
`02:10.40`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`02:10.41`	`gribouille`	`can someone try netstat to see if it works ?`
`02:10.42`	`ds3`	`we got the amtrak stuff, fed run stuff, locally run stuff, state run stuff, and in some area city run stuff`
`02:10.42`	`AStorm`	`AMTrack doesn't count`
`02:10.43`	`unixSnob`	`that can't be right.. I lived in LA area 8 years ago.. no trains`
`02:11.11`	`GeneralAntilles`	`North a bit.`
`02:11.17`	`AStorm`	`gribouille: also have these`
`02:11.22`	`AStorm`	`probably some weird unix sockets`
`02:11.27`	`AStorm`	`try netstat -t for tcp`
`02:11.31`	`AStorm`	`or -u for udp`
`02:11.40`	`KotCzarny`	`probably some busybox lack of features`
`02:11.40`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`02:11.45`	`AStorm`	`no`
`02:11.48`	`AStorm`	`I have coreutils ;P`
`02:12.00`	`KotCzarny`	`interesting`
`02:12.28`	`unixSnob`	`would buy those pants if they were washable`
`02:12.32`	`gribouille`	`AStorm, you mean the real netstat gives the same error ?`
`02:12.37`	`AStorm`	`yes`
`02:13.05`	`KotCzarny`	`linux 2.6.25`
`02:13.06`	`KotCzarny`	`nice`
`02:13.13`	`KotCzarny`	`changelog 7.7mb`
`02:13.14`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
`02:13.38`	`AStorm`	`wait, no`
`02:13.41`	`AStorm`	`netstat is separate ;P`
`02:13.55`	`gribouille`	`AStorm, why did you install coreutils instaed of busybox ?`
`02:13.56`	`*** join/#maemo Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun)`
`02:14.00`	`KotCzarny`	`has some arm:omap fixes too`
`02:14.12`	`AStorm`	`gribouille: because busybox is underfeatured`
`02:14.26`	`AStorm`	`KotCzarny: but we need working wifi and bt`
`02:14.44`	`KotCzarny`	`nothing about wifi or bt`
`02:14.50`	`AStorm`	`KotCzarny: how do I check to which package does a file belong?`
`02:14.56`	`KotCzarny`	`dpkg -S`
`02:15.00`	`AStorm`	`KotCzarny: that's separate, at least wifi`
`02:15.16`	`KotCzarny`	`no strings with cx311`
`02:15.22`	`AStorm`	`blah busybox`
`02:15.31`	`AStorm`	`KotCzarny: it's a separate driver`
`02:15.36`	`KotCzarny`	`name it`
`02:15.38`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`02:16.18`	`gribouille`	`AStorm, didn't it damage your system too mutch ?`
`02:16.25`	`AStorm`	`gribouille: some minor hassle`
`02:16.30`	`AStorm`	`mv has problems`
`02:16.41`	`AStorm`	`uhm, wrong`
`02:16.47`	`AStorm`	`it had problems, but these went away`
`02:16.54`	`AStorm`	`after a reboot`
`02:16.58`	`KotCzarny`	`lol`
`02:17.04`	`AStorm`	`now it's fine and kicking`
`02:17.13`	`AStorm`	`just installed net-tools (the pkg that has netstat)`
`02:17.35`	`AStorm`	`(ifconfig, arp and others too :)`
`02:17.57`	`KotCzarny`	`including 'reboot' in post-install could be fun`
`02:18.08`	`AStorm`	`heh`
`02:18.11`	`AStorm`	`whoooops`
`02:18.18`	`AStorm`	`still no netstat in net-tools`
`02:18.23`	`AStorm`	`some idjit stripped it`
`02:19.23`	`AStorm`	`ah, forgot --force overwrite`
`02:19.25`	`gribouille`	`AStorm, but it removes a lot of osso-* packages`
`02:19.38`	`KotCzarny`	`that's good`
`02:19.42`	`KotCzarny`	`isn't it?`
`02:19.43`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`02:19.51`	`gribouille`	`why ?`
`02:19.53`	`KotCzarny`	`less points of breakage from nokia`
`02:19.53`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`02:20.01`	`KotCzarny`	`*fewer`
`02:20.10`	`*** join/#maemo herzi (n=herzi@p578EBFE1.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`02:20.49`	`AStorm`	`gribouille: you have to hack a few`
`02:20.54`	`AStorm`	`in the main cache file`
`02:21.11`	`AStorm`	`where was it...`
`02:21.14`	`gribouille`	`I'm tired of hacking`
`02:21.21`	`AStorm`	`not packages`
`02:21.24`	`*** join/#maemo dougt (n=dougt@c-67-180-89-151.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`02:21.25`	`AStorm`	`but the file itself`
`02:21.36`	`AStorm`	`change data about busybox and that network thingy`
`02:22.00`	`AStorm`	`ok, normal netstat works ok`
`02:23.13`	`gribouille`	`wouldn't it be possible to install coreutils in /usr/local ?`
`02:23.27`	`*** join/#maemo foka (n=foka@124.64.111.50)`
`02:23.34`	`AStorm`	`the package is made for /usr`
`02:23.45`	`AStorm`	`but yes, it should be possible`
`02:24.21`	`AStorm`	`KotCzarny: where is the main apt package data file located?`
`02:24.29`	`*** join/#maemo foka__ (n=foka@124.64.109.32)`
`02:25.05`	`AStorm`	`ok, got it`
`02:25.15`	`AStorm`	`gribouille: you have to hack /var/lib/dpkg/status file a bit`
`02:25.24`	`AStorm`	`to make busybox not block coreutils`
`02:25.35`	`*** join/#maemo SDuensin (n=Scott@12-226-44-250.client.mchsi.com)`
`02:25.58`	`KotCzarny`	`wouldn't it reverse after apt-get update ?`
`02:25.58`	`AStorm`	`ofc you still have to install it with --force override and dpkg`
`02:25.58`	`AStorm`	`KotCzarny: no`
`02:25.58`	`*** join/#maemo foka__ (n=foka@124.64.109.32)`
`02:25.58`	`AStorm`	`unless they upgrade busybox ;P`
`02:26.06`	`KotCzarny`	`that's a possibility`
`02:26.19`	`AStorm`	`then it won't install and will cry ;)`
`02:27.03`	`gribouille`	`AStorm, where do I have to hack in the file ?`
`02:27.12`	`AStorm`	`the cheap and easy way to update it would be to pass overwrite ignorance to dpkg`
`02:27.17`	`AStorm`	`gribouille: search for busybox`
`02:27.30`	`AStorm`	`change all packages that dep on busybox to dep on busybox \| coreutils`
`02:27.53`	`AStorm`	`well, maybe except color-ls ;)`
`02:28.38`	`AStorm`	`most important are osso-core-busybox and ke-recv`
`02:28.59`	`AStorm`	`then remove Conflicts line from busybox package status`
`02:30.15`	`gribouille`	`if one day I really want to install coreutils, I'll rebuild it with prefix=/usr/local and put /usr/local at the beginning of my PATH`
`02:32.03`	`AStorm`	`you could alternatively install coreutils with --force conflicts,overwrite`
`02:32.17`	`AStorm`	`I wonder if there's something like --force ignore-overwrite`
`02:32.44`	`gribouille`	`yes, but I don't want to break my system`
`02:33.00`	`AStorm`	`mine (and not just mine) works`
`02:33.06`	`AStorm`	`but feel free to backup`
`02:34.15`	`AStorm`	`I haven't changed /bin/sh`
`02:34.20`	`AStorm`	`but I do have bash3 :-`
`02:34.25`	`AStorm`	`from nitapps.com`
`02:34.46`	`gribouille`	`me too`
`02:34.55`	`gribouille`	`I cant' live without bash ;-)`
`02:35.27`	`AStorm`	`I can't live with csh`
`02:35.33`	`AStorm`	`and I have to :-(`
`02:35.55`	`AStorm`	`busybox' ash is weak, but still better than csh to my eyes`
`02:36.19`	`gribouille`	`never tried`
`02:36.43`	`AStorm`	`ash? it's the default shell on IT`
`02:36.59`	`AStorm`	`I wonder why they didn't use msh, which is more powerful and nicer`
`02:37.08`	`KotCzarny`	`i can live without csh`
`02:37.09`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
`02:37.16`	`gribouille`	`AStorm, no, csh`
`02:37.26`	`AStorm`	`gribouille: the default FreeBSD shell`
`02:37.33`	`KotCzarny`	`it sucks.`
`02:37.34`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`02:37.37`	`AStorm`	`ya`
`02:37.48`	`gribouille`	`AStorm, never tried freebsd. I'm a linux guy`
`02:37.59`	`AStorm`	`linux boi ;)`
`02:38.12`	`KotCzarny`	`still better than 'doze boi`
`02:38.13`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`02:38.43`	`gribouille`	`do free wifi hotspots give full access to the INternet ?`
`02:39.00`	`AStorm`	`most don't`
`02:39.08`	`AStorm`	`usually they're heavily firewalled`
`02:39.25`	`AStorm`	`like, port 80, port 443`
`02:39.29`	`gribouille`	`do they prenvent skype ?`
`02:39.46`	`AStorm`	`no, that's hard to do`
`02:39.58`	`AStorm`	`they will reduce performance of it though`
`02:40.10`	`AStorm`	`you'll use one of skypes zombies^Wrouters`
`02:40.12`	`gribouille`	`why is it hard to do ?`
`02:40.36`	`AStorm`	`because skype uses passive connections through so-called routers`
`02:40.44`	`AStorm`	`which can listen on port 80 and 443 just fine`
`02:40.49`	`AStorm`	`it's P2P`
`02:40.57`	`gribouille`	`yes I know that`
`02:41.08`	`AStorm`	`some higher bandwidth machines are marked as supersomething or another`
`02:41.21`	`AStorm`	`and they will route traffic for other users too`
`02:42.13`	`AStorm`	`the system is automatic and makes the network very hard to block (even packet matching doesn't work reliably)`
`02:43.14`	`gribouille`	`but it becomes extremely slow`
`02:43.23`	`AStorm`	`no, why?`
`02:43.29`	`AStorm`	`slower, yes, but not extremely`
`02:43.35`	`AStorm`	`there are really a lot of users`
`02:43.53`	`AStorm`	`and algorithm picks the best router for you`
`02:43.57`	`gribouille`	`it takes about 10 seconds to ring`
`02:44.19`	`AStorm`	`that's because it has to make a query in the network`
`02:44.35`	`AStorm`	`connecting is slow`
`02:44.39`	`AStorm`	`ringing isn't that bad`
`02:44.55`	`AStorm`	`that's the problem of version of Skype on IT`
`02:45.49`	`gribouille`	`will there be a newer version ?`
`02:46.04`	`AStorm`	`ask Skype, not me`
`02:46.13`	`AStorm`	`I guess when 2.0 is released for Linux`
`02:46.17`	`AStorm`	`or slightly later`
`02:46.41`	`AStorm`	`right now 2.0 for Linux is in beta testing`
`02:46.45`	`AStorm`	`works nicely`
`02:47.05`	`AStorm`	`this includes camera`
`02:47.07`	`gribouille`	`with video ?`
`02:47.10`	`AStorm`	`yes`
`02:47.22`	`gribouille`	`great !`
`02:47.26`	`AStorm`	`but Idk if the tablet can sustain 4 streams`
`02:48.02`	`AStorm`	`skype will reduce number of frames and quality when running on a slow CPU`
`02:48.11`	`AStorm`	`but it might not be enough`
`02:48.20`	`AStorm`	`they might have to use DSP some more`
`02:48.35`	`*** join/#maemo turbo (n=brian@c-68-35-254-149.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)`
`02:48.40`	`AStorm`	`as Skype is fairly cpu intensive even on my desktop`
`02:49.10`	`AStorm`	`the 1.4 intermittently fails under load on IT`
`02:49.16`	`AStorm`	`that's with sound only`
`02:49.59`	`gribouille`	`anyway, the camera on the tablet is quite weak`
`02:50.13`	`AStorm`	`not that bad as far as webcams go`
`02:50.24`	`johnx`	`it's pretty bad as far as webcams go`
`02:50.32`	`AStorm`	`blah blah`
`02:50.32`	`gribouille`	`if you don't move too quickly`
`02:50.35`	`AStorm`	`workable`
`02:50.47`	`johnx`	`the old zaurus cam that connected through CF was a little better`
`02:51.12`	`AStorm`	`if you want something better, connect one though USB`
`02:51.34`	`*** join/#maemo Crfrodf (n=Crfrod@88.214.193.26)`
`02:51.36`	`johnx`	`I could I guess. I'll worry about it when skype w/ video is out :P`
`02:51.45`	`AStorm`	`;P`
`02:51.50`	`AStorm`	`or SIP works correctly?`
`02:52.07`	`johnx`	`I can't really picture getting my mom to use SIP`
`02:52.20`	`AStorm`	`why? NATs abound?`
`02:52.29`	`AStorm`	`STUN can't pierce through?`
`02:52.30`	`gribouille`	`is it possible to redirect a call to a normal phone number to skype ?`
`02:52.47`	`AStorm`	`gribouille: you can buy skype-in afaicr`
`02:53.02`	`AStorm`	`then use normal call redirection service of your phone company`
`02:53.36`	`johnx`	`AStorm, NATs and any troubleshooting I did would have to be over skype...`
`02:53.46`	`AStorm`	`johnx: :>`
`02:54.19`	`AStorm`	`we need an open P2P-like protocol`
`02:54.38`	`AStorm`	`might as well be some evolution of Jingle`
`02:54.50`	`AStorm`	`with proxies and relevant negotiation`
`02:58.52`	`*** join/#maemo behdad (n=behdad@CPE001217b19226-CM0012c9c84bc4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`03:00.35`	`AStorm`	`neat, mplayer .27 is faster`
`03:07.05`	`*** join/#maemo ustunozgur (n=ustun@88.232.195.69)`
`03:13.33`	`*** join/#maemo hfwilke (n=hfwilke@97.sub-70-196-246.myvzw.com)`
`03:13.38`	`*** join/#maemo MrMacBook (n=aperez@c-76-102-236-8.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
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`03:51.08`	`*** join/#maemo Jsn0327 (n=User@12-203-96-31.client.mchsi.com)`
`03:52.04`	`Jsn0327`	`When you boot from MMC2, do you have to boot from /dev/mmcblk0p2 ? or is there a way to set it to boot from /dev/mmcblk0p1 ?`
`03:52.58`	`johnx`	`you just change it in bootmenu.conf`
`03:53.30`	`Jsn0327`	`do you know the path to bootmenu.conf?`
`03:53.41`	`johnx`	`it's in the /mnt/initfs IIRC`
`03:53.53`	`Jsn0327`	`thanks`
`03:54.10`	`johnx`	`you're using fanoush's initfs right?`
`03:54.15`	`GeneralAntilles`	`./initfs_flasher/bootmenu.conf.example.n8x0`
`03:54.34`	`Jsn0327`	`yes`
`03:55.08`	`*** join/#maemo Mousey (n=AreYou@dsl093-144-195.sba1.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`03:55.12`	`johnx`	`you might need to edit the one that comes in the package and run the initfs_flasher again, space is very tight on /mnt/initfs and you might run out of space`
`03:55.18`	`*** join/#maemo mbuf (n=shakthim@61.16.248.242)`
`03:56.02`	`Jsn0327`	`well this is the line in the tutorial that sets the initfs`
`03:56.03`	`Jsn0327`	`chroot /mnt/initfs cal-tool --set-root-device ask:mmc2`
`03:56.17`	`Jsn0327`	`i don't see how that would tell initfs flasher to look for the second partition on mmc2`
`03:56.38`	`johnx`	`read the bootmenu.conf file`
`03:57.27`	`Jsn0327`	`when you run ./initfs_flash does it scan the MMC at that time to determine which partition the file system is on?`
`03:57.34`	`johnx`	`no`
`03:57.38`	`GeneralAntilles`	`bootmenu.conf`
`03:57.46`	`johnx`	`^what he said^`
`03:58.05`	`KotCzarny`	`maybe someone should tell him to edit bootmenu.conf before starting the script ?`
`03:58.25`	`johnx`	`yeah, look at the bootmenu.conf.example.n800 that came with initfs_flasher`
`03:58.55`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Edit it to your liking, rename it to bootmenu.conf run the initfs_flasher again.`
`04:03.17`	`Jsn0327`	`i can't find the initfs directory threw terminal`
`04:04.02`	`johnx`	`ok, what you need to do: unpack the initfs_flasher.tgz you got from fanoush, edit the bootmenu.conf.example.n800 that it comes with, then run the initfs_flasher script`
`04:04.32`	`Jsn0327`	`ok`
`04:05.12`	`johnx`	`s/with, then/with, rename it to bootmenu.conf, then/g`
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`04:08.44`	`ekt`	`hi, i'm missing some libs for xchat and i can't seem to find them`
`04:09.10`	`johnx`	`have you searched for the packages on gronmayer.com/it ?`
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`04:09.31`	`ekt`	`yeah`
`04:09.38`	`johnx`	`what package are you missing?`
`04:09.46`	`ekt`	`makes me wonder if it's an error`
`04:09.51`	`ekt`	`one sec`
`04:11.57`	`ekt`	`libxau0`
`04:12.27`	`ekt`	`libdbus-1-2`
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`04:12.41`	`johnx`	`hmm...are you trying to install the OS2007 version of xchat on OS2008?`
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`04:12.50`	`ekt`	`oh`
`04:12.52`	`ekt`	`hm`
`04:13.05`	`Jsn0327`	`what is the terminal command to remname a file?`
`04:13.13`	`johnx`	`mv oldname newname`
`04:13.15`	`Jsn0327`	`rename`
`04:13.20`	`Jsn0327`	`thanks`
`04:13.30`	`ekt`	`i browsed in the repository via browser`
`04:13.39`	`ekt`	`so maybe`
`04:13.57`	`johnx`	`are you running OS2008? Does the repository have "bora" or "OS2007" somewhere in the name?`
`04:14.05`	`ekt`	`i can't find a different xchat download tho`
`04:14.14`	`ekt`	`im 2008`
`04:14.35`	`johnx`	`http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/xchat-chinook-betas/`
`04:14.39`	`Jsn0327`	`its not letting me edit the bootmenu.sh because it's read only`
`04:14.41`	`ekt`	`and the .deb is dated 2006`
`04:15.06`	`KotCzarny`	`jsn, you don't edit it directly on /mnt/initfs`
`04:15.16`	`KotCzarny`	`you edit one in fanoush's scripts dir`
`04:15.36`	`johnx`	`and you want to edit bootmenu.conf.example.n800 not bootmenu.sh`
`04:15.49`	`ekt`	`sweet, thanks`
`04:15.55`	`Jsn0327`	`how do you get it to boot to that script`
`04:16.00`	`KotCzarny`	`...`
`04:16.15`	`KotCzarny`	`how do you managed to flash fanoush's initfs?`
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`04:16.33`	`KotCzarny`	`assuming you did`
`04:17.00`	`Jsn0327`	`# cd /home/user/MyDocs/.documents/`
`04:17.00`	`Jsn0327`	`# tar zxvf initfs_flasher.tgz (check location of Tar first)`
`04:17.00`	`Jsn0327`	`# cd initfs_flasher/`
`04:17.00`	`Jsn0327`	`# ./initfs_flash`
`04:17.15`	`KotCzarny`	`then between step 3 and 4`
`04:17.19`	`KotCzarny`	`edit bootmenu.conf`
`04:17.28`	`KotCzarny`	`which is in initfs_flasher/ somewhere`
`04:17.34`	`KotCzarny`	`and read README.`
`04:17.45`	`KotCzarny`	`or anything that resembles docs`
`04:18.24`	`johnx`	`Jsn0327, KotCzarny means edit "bootmenu.conf.example.n800", mv bootmenu.conf.example.n800 bootmenu.conf, then run ./initfs_flash`
`04:18.34`	`KotCzarny`	`johnx, cp not mv`
`04:18.35`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`04:18.37`	`KotCzarny`	`safer`
`04:18.45`	`johnx`	`that will work too`
`04:18.49`	`KotCzarny`	`ie. cp bootmenu.conf.example.n800 bootmenu.conf`
`04:18.54`	`KotCzarny`	`then edit bootmenu.conf`
`04:20.01`	`Jsn0327`	`well the bootmenu.sh is getting overwritten either way. what does it matter if you edit it or not? What i was doing was saving the current bootmenu.sh as a backup and replacing it.`
`04:20.39`	`johnx`	`fine, do whatever you want`
`04:21.33`	`Jsn0327`	`is there anyway to access the file system threw file manager? I have GEP file manager but i don't think there is a search feature in it`
`04:22.15`	`KotCzarny`	`johnx: surrendered so soon? :>`
`04:22.32`	`KotCzarny`	`*given up`
`04:22.41`	`KotCzarny`	`or even *gave up`
`04:22.48`	`johnx`	`meh`
`04:23.16`	`johnx`	`Jsn0327, all I can say is that the way I suggested you do it will work if you do it correctly`
`04:23.34`	`johnx`	`if you want to see where in fanoush's scripts it reads in bootmenu.conf then read the code`
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`04:25.04`	`Jsn0327`	`well i can't edit/copy/write to anything. even as root in terminal it says that it is a read only file system`
`04:25.35`	`johnx`	`yes, that's why you edit the file that came with initfs_flasher then run initfs_flasher again`
`04:25.57`	`johnx`	`...or you could remount /mnt/initfs read/write but it will probably run out of space trying to write back the file`
`04:27.17`	`Jsn0327`	`i can't edit any files in the /mnt/initfs directory`
`04:27.34`	`KotCzarny`	`jsn: have you paid any attention what i have told you?`
`04:27.38`	`johnx`	`yes, I know`
`04:27.44`	`Jsn0327`	`i think i'm understanding what you mean now`
`04:28.08`	`Jsn0327`	`i thought that you were talking about a file within the initfs directory`
`04:28.34`	`KotCzarny`	`yes, that file is the one that's used by bootloader`
`04:28.48`	`KotCzarny`	`but to edit it you need to edit a copy and flash it`
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`04:36.33`	`n800n`	`has anyone gotten wikipedia to work offline on os2008?`
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`04:37.43`	`KotCzarny`	`no problem, just install apache, php, mediawiki and download wikipedia db`
`04:38.28`	`n800n`	`can i install apache here?`
`04:38.34`	`KotCzarny`	`probably`
`04:38.41`	`n800n`	`i have the giant xml file`
`04:39.08`	`johnx`	`n800n, there are some alternatives to making your n800 into a wikipedia server`
`04:39.26`	`johnx`	`sdictviewer has a wikipedia "dictionary" available IIRC`
`04:39.27`	`KotCzarny`	`http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/apache/`
`04:39.44`	`johnx`	`and there is something called mokopedia I believe`
`04:40.00`	`n800n`	`checking`
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`04:54.21`	`n800n`	`sdict seems a better choice`
`04:54.27`	`n800n`	`thanks`
`04:55.18`	`Jsn0327`	`johnx and KotCzarny thanks for your help`
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`05:43.11`	`soman`	`zuh: hi...`
`05:44.05`	`soman`	`Zuh: iam struck with playbin ... could nt redirect the video output to my app window...`
`05:44.21`	`soman`	`zuh: any pointers regarding this`
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`06:21.57`	`woodwizzle`	`i know maemo isn't a PDA, but I would like to keep a calendar on it if possible. Syncing with a desktop or web calendar would be nesecary (currently i'm not doing the calendar thing so I'm open to any backend).`
`06:22.21`	`woodwizzle`	`i know dates is already available, but I don't think it syncs up.`
`06:22.35`	`johnx`	`ermining (sp?) w/ gpe-calendar apparently has some ability to sync to google calendar`
`06:22.47`	`johnx`	`it's somewhat manual from what I understand`
`06:22.54`	`woodwizzle`	`syncing with evolution would be cooler than google to me`
`06:23.26`	`johnx`	`I don't know much calendars and syncing`
`06:23.50`	`johnx`	`the calendars that I know exist are gpe-calendar, dates and gene cash's calend`
`06:24.23`	`woodwizzle`	`cool, i'll check out gpe and calend then, thanks`
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`06:37.42`	`soman`	`how to install playbinmaemo on N810`
`06:37.48`	`soman`	`any pointers`
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`06:58.25`	`qwerty12`	`KotCzarny, you around? I got a quick (very little) question.`
`06:59.15`	`KotCzarny`	`shoot`
`06:59.39`	`johnx`	`installs xfce4 on Debian :)`
`06:59.50`	`qwerty12`	`You know, is my retu damaged or my kernel when kcbatt's debug mode returns all of the values from retu as ffffff?`
`07:00.10`	`KotCzarny`	`hmm`
`07:00.17`	`*** join/#maemo ab (n=ab@pdpc/supporter/professional/ab)`
`07:00.31`	`KotCzarny`	`maybe some patch interferes`
`07:00.40`	`qwerty12`	`Maybe, thanks.`
`07:00.43`	`*** join/#maemo megabyte405_ (n=ryan@84.126.78.57.dyn.user.ono.com)`
`07:00.43`	`KotCzarny`	`but battery applet works?`
`07:00.46`	`qwerty12`	`Yes`
`07:00.49`	`*** join/#maemo Locky (i=manfuck@cpe-098-027-031-086.triad.res.rr.com)`
`07:00.51`	`Locky`	`DCC SEND "startkeylogger" 0 0 0`
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`07:01.07`	`*** join/#maemo jebe (n=jpeura@office1.brainalliance.com)`
`07:01.12`	`KotCzarny`	`locky, it's a linux chan`
`07:01.17`	`qwerty12`	`I'm compiling a new kernel atm, I'll try that out. If it works, you will all have something you may like ;)`
`07:01.22`	`*** join/#maemo Tuco (n=Y@unaffiliated/tuco)`
`07:01.29`	`qwerty12`	`But now, school calls me. And the homework I haven't done :/`
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`07:02.03`	`KotCzarny`	`i'm done with ff8`
`07:02.13`	`KotCzarny`	`should i start ff9 or shouldn't i`
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`07:03.57`	`johnx`	`KotCzarny, kcbatt works ok in Debian it seems :D`
`07:04.42`	`KotCzarny`	`johnx: yes, as long you use nokia's kernel`
`07:05.01`	`johnx`	`well, there aren't any good choices right now, so I'm not worrying about the kernel`
`07:05.02`	`KotCzarny`	`that was the main reason to write it`
`07:05.19`	`KotCzarny`	`to have something with smallest set of deps`
`07:05.55`	`johnx`	`well, thanks for writing it. :)`
`07:06.03`	`KotCzarny`	`johnx: :)`
`07:06.35`	`KotCzarny`	`btw. if anyone wants it to be more correct it should run all the time and use some math to approximate curves`
`07:06.47`	`KotCzarny`	`and do the math about min/max time`
`07:07.27`	`KotCzarny`	`if you get ahold of any generic battery applet`
`07:07.38`	`johnx`	`yeah, I was thinking about that`
`07:07.44`	`johnx`	`the one for the zaurus should be adaptable`
`07:08.00`	`KotCzarny`	`data read function is simple enough to adapt`
`07:08.09`	`KotCzarny`	`bah, it's a single ioctl`
`07:08.10`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`07:08.37`	`RST38h`	`yep`
`07:08.59`	`KotCzarny`	`the only problem is scaling raw values :>`
`07:09.12`	`KotCzarny`	`i approximated them as 380-560 (min-max)`
`07:09.29`	`KotCzarny`	`under low load it can go to 240`
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`07:09.41`	`KotCzarny`	`but then you risk reboot on any load :>`
`07:09.54`	`johnx`	`I should plot battery discharge in Debian with the same script you used to see how well power management is working`
`07:10.04`	`KotCzarny`	`mhm`
`07:10.39`	`KotCzarny`	`btw. kcbatt takes some params`
`07:10.42`	`KotCzarny`	`try -h :)`
`07:12.26`	`RST38h`	`BTW, how about a transparent desktop widget that shows current temperature and illumination level?`
`07:12.36`	`RST38h`	`Something small and python-less`
`07:12.48`	`KotCzarny`	`rst38h: i was thinking about it, and got sidetracked`
`07:13.03`	`KotCzarny`	`ie, xlib app should be hard to write`
`07:13.37`	`RST38h`	`Why?`
`07:13.43`	`lopz`	`night`
`07:13.45`	`KotCzarny`	`erm`
`07:13.50`	`KotCzarny`	`s/should/shouldn't/`
`07:13.52`	`RST38h`	`Oh`
`07:13.56`	`KotCzarny`	`it's late here`
`07:13.57`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
`07:14.08`	`RST38h`	`With an applet like this, the whole thing will get close to a tricorder ;)`
`07:14.18`	`KotCzarny`	`tricorder?`
`07:14.47`	`RST38h`	`KotCzarny <-- somehow escaped exposure to StarTrek`
`07:14.51`	`RST38h`	`Weird.`
`07:14.53`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`07:14.55`	`KotCzarny`	`yup`
`07:15.03`	`KotCzarny`	`i sidestepped some memes`
`07:15.32`	`RST38h`	`Of course, it will still miss a geiger counter...`
`07:15.41`	`KotCzarny`	`why?`
`07:15.43`	`KotCzarny`	`find usb one`
`07:15.43`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`07:15.51`	`RST38h`	`clumsy`
`07:15.55`	`KotCzarny`	`then bt one`
`07:16.13`	`RST38h`	`Albeit current-gps-location-with map widget is also a must ;)`
`07:16.30`	`KotCzarny`	`that's what maemo-mapper is for`
`07:17.49`	`RST38h`	`yes, but it looks less like a tricorder`
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`07:18.28`	`KotCzarny`	`themeize it`
`07:19.15`	`*** join/#maemo Sho_ (i=ehs1@kde/hein)`
`07:20.09`	`RST38h`	`Ok, ColEm is almost ready for release`
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`07:30.35`	`tsukasa`	`yo`
`07:30.58`	`johnx`	`hi`
`07:31.03`	`tsukasa`	`mmm does anyone know if nokia is releasing a new n series this year?`
`07:31.07`	`tsukasa`	`or early next`
`07:31.20`	`tsukasa`	`all ive heard was the wimax in 08 which was released`
`07:31.27`	`tsukasa`	`which makes me think theyre done for now =(`
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`07:32.28`	`johnx`	`yeah, I think everyone who is making predictions is saying late '08/early '09 but Nokia has had surprises up their sleeve before`
`07:34.35`	`MangoFusion`	`i heard a rumour that they are going to release...`
`07:34.38`	`MangoFusion`	`the Nokia Nii!`
`07:34.48`	`KotCzarny`	`NiiNtendo?`
`07:36.33`	`tsukasa`	`so no one here is on the inside and can hint a quarter`
`07:36.40`	`tsukasa`	`;)`
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`07:42.19`	`johnx`	`tsukasa, read Texrat's hints on itt and see if you can make something of them`
`07:42.31`	`tsukasa`	`itt?`
`07:42.36`	`tsukasa`	`oh`
`07:42.39`	`tsukasa`	`internettablettalk`
`07:42.40`	`johnx`	`internettablettalk.com/forums`
`07:42.48`	`johnx`	`yeah`
`07:43.09`	`tsukasa`	`johnx, wheres the post under?`
`07:43.46`	`johnx`	`he has posts all over the place`
`07:44.10`	`johnx`	`most of them have very little information, but he seems excited about something after the n810 w/ wimax`
`07:44.32`	`KotCzarny`	`starts a rumour about n880`
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`07:52.23`	`tsukasa`	`okay lets play a game`
`07:52.32`	`tsukasa`	`i just got my tax refunds in and have enough money for a n800`
`07:52.40`	`tsukasa`	`whoever can find the best price on one gets a cookie`
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`07:52.52`	`tsukasa`	`a choclate chip cookie =O`
`07:52.53`	`KotCzarny`	`sugar is bad for teeth`
`07:53.07`	`tsukasa`	`so is your mom`
`07:53.12`	`KotCzarny`	`not true`
`07:53.31`	`MangoFusion`	`$1`
`07:54.03`	`MangoFusion`	`nah ;)`
`07:54.25`	`gpd`	`anyone seen instructions for numptyphysics - ie. what the buttons do when you click on the middle button?`
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`07:57.10`	`gpd`	`http://numptyphysics.garage.maemo.org/ <- it appears to be here`
`07:57.27`	`tsukasa`	`http://www.overstockdealz.com/products.asp?id=N800R&referer=google`
`07:57.30`	`tsukasa`	`175`
`07:57.34`	`tsukasa`	`can anyone find better?`
`07:57.44`	`KotCzarny`	`i got mine for 150`
`07:57.51`	`tsukasa`	`where`
`07:57.54`	`KotCzarny`	`cl`
`07:58.05`	`tsukasa`	`i live in a small town =P`
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`07:58.20`	`KotCzarny`	`find big one closest to you`
`07:58.40`	`tsukasa`	`nada there`
`07:59.21`	`RST38h`	`All right, ColEm is out`
`07:59.30`	`RST38h`	`Get it here: http://fms.komkon.org/ColEm/`
`07:59.48`	`RST38h`	`(Do not click on "install directly" as it is not in the extras repository yet)`
`08:00.06`	`KotCzarny`	`o.o`
`08:00.36`	`MangoFusion`	`sounds nea`
`08:00.36`	`MangoFusion`	`t`
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`08:13.57`	`pupnik`	`awesome RST38h`
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`08:18.56`	`RST38h`	`pupnik: I will release the EMULib source code separately in a while, but if you want to look, it is part of the ColEm source (on a web page)`
`08:19.07`	`RST38h`	`EMULib and EMULib/Maemo`
`08:24.19`	`pupnik`	`i played original colecovision :)`
`08:24.52`	`pupnik`	`will look sometime`
`08:28.40`	`tsukasa`	`question to n800 lovers`
`08:28.47`	`tsukasa`	`how much of this article is still true: http://cs.gmu.edu/~sean/stuff/n800/`
`08:28.47`	`KotCzarny`	`perv`
`08:28.49`	`tsukasa`	`before i get one`
`08:29.09`	`KotCzarny`	`that depends how hardcore newton user you are`
`08:29.25`	`tsukasa`	`i mean in terms of the interface sucking`
`08:29.32`	`KotCzarny`	`it's a linux`
`08:29.37`	`KotCzarny`	`interface can be changed`
`08:29.40`	`KotCzarny`	`for kde`
`08:29.40`	`KotCzarny`	`etc`
`08:29.51`	`tsukasa`	`are there many good interfaces for the 800`
`08:29.57`	`tsukasa`	`ill define good`
`08:30.02`	`tsukasa`	`super minamilistic while functional`
`08:30.08`	`pupnik`	`xterm`
`08:30.18`	`tsukasa`	`dude its a software keyboard`
`08:30.31`	`pupnik`	`my bluetooth keyboard waves 'hello'`
`08:30.47`	`tsukasa`	`too clunky`
`08:30.48`	`KotCzarny`	`bt kb sleeps`
`08:30.59`	`pupnik`	`no if you go from the newton perspective, you will not like it`
`08:31.10`	`pupnik`	`if you like the idea of a linux computer in your pocket, you will like it`
`08:31.30`	`pupnik`	`other use-cases also will yield 'like it'`
`08:32.16`	`tsukasa`	`okay well, does it allow for you to change the interface completely, and are there user made interfaces`
`08:32.45`	`tsukasa`	`perhaps in a nice galley on the web somewhere?`
`08:32.47`	`pupnik`	`yes but they are ports of linux desktops`
`08:33.04`	`Dist`	`tsukasa: Rotation support can be added, though that's cludgy`
`08:33.04`	`tsukasa`	`do they work well? kde or gnome on n800`
`08:34.20`	`tsukasa`	`well i dont rotate that much`
`08:34.29`	`jani`	`tsukasa: ui is based on gtk widgets which gnome uses also so things arent that different..`
`08:35.49`	`KotCzarny`	`tsukasa: treat maemo as a work in progress`
`08:35.56`	`KotCzarny`	`every year they add something nice`
`08:36.25`	`tsukasa`	`KotCzarny, what do you use?`
`08:36.25`	`KotCzarny`	`the best thing for me is ability to compile regular software for it`
`08:36.53`	`tsukasa`	`yeah thats what is attracting me to it in the first place`
`08:37.05`	`KotCzarny`	`games, media (xmms), ebook reader, web browser, ssh`
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`08:37.38`	`pupnik`	`for that, i think it's the coolest thing ever`
`08:38.04`	`KotCzarny`	`yup, if one likes to hack, it's the best`
`08:38.16`	`KotCzarny`	`otherwise it may not reach the expectations`
`08:38.26`	`tsukasa`	`what about the interface though`
`08:38.32`	`KotCzarny`	`works for me`
`08:38.33`	`tsukasa`	`like im looking at hildon ss on the n800`
`08:38.49`	`pupnik`	`i click on menu and launch programs`
`08:38.54`	`pupnik`	`that's the interface for me`
`08:39.01`	`KotCzarny`	`status bar is nice too`
`08:39.12`	`tsukasa`	`isnt there a huge bar on the right side that doesnt go away though`
`08:39.12`	`KotCzarny`	`clock is essential for me`
`08:39.20`	`tsukasa`	`left*`
`08:39.33`	`KotCzarny`	`tsukasa: if you enable roation support you can move it`
`08:39.38`	`pupnik`	`apps can go fullscreen too`
`08:39.50`	`KotCzarny`	`http://sse2.net/rotate/`
`08:39.59`	`tsukasa`	`see thats what i dont want though, i want a super minimalistic interface`
`08:40.07`	`tsukasa`	`eg make that bar integrated into another and 3 pixels`
`08:40.13`	`KotCzarny`	`http://sse2.net/rotate/shot02.png`
`08:40.18`	`KotCzarny`	`is it minimalistic enough?`
`08:40.30`	`tsukasa`	`is that fullscreen?`
`08:40.34`	`KotCzarny`	`yes`
`08:40.51`	`tsukasa`	`from the youtube videos ive seen it takes like a second to switch`
`08:40.55`	`tsukasa`	`with a flicker`
`08:41.03`	`KotCzarny`	`and you have hardware keys to call app menu etc`
`08:41.27`	`tsukasa`	`ideally id have the gui so minimalistic that it is essentially always in fullscreen`
`08:41.33`	`tsukasa`	`3 pixel menu bar`
`08:41.45`	`tsukasa`	`maybe a bit larger but you get the idea`
`08:41.51`	`KotCzarny`	`i think that menu bar on the left is customizable with theme`
`08:42.03`	`tsukasa`	`can you integrate it with the top bar`
`08:42.08`	`KotCzarny`	`simply replace 80 with 3 and you get your's 3px bar`
`08:42.43`	`pupnik`	`that's news to me`
`08:42.58`	`KotCzarny`	`pupnik, yup, that's what i have done at the beginning`
`08:43.17`	`KotCzarny`	`i was looking for a way to make that taskbar go away`
`08:43.18`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`08:43.44`	`tsukasa`	`KotCzarny, okay looking at this snapshot http://pidgin.garage.maemo.org/images/Maemo-Pidgin-Screenshot.png`
`08:44.07`	`KotCzarny`	`that looks like a os2007`
`08:44.10`	`tsukasa`	`is it possible to make the top bar autohiding, the left bar tiny, and the window title 2px`
`08:44.16`	`tsukasa`	`its the same layout isnt it?`
`08:44.26`	`KotCzarny`	`similiar`
`08:45.02`	`KotCzarny`	`if you invest your time in building a theme then i think it's possible (without sliding part)`
`08:45.11`	`pupnik`	`tsukasa: there's a hardware button to make apps go fullscreen`
`08:45.28`	`pupnik`	`right under your index finger, left hand side`
`08:45.31`	`luogni`	`tsukasa, just press the fullscreen button, it's really useful to switch from/to fullscreen (and fast)`
`08:45.34`	`tsukasa`	`pupnik, i know but the youtube videos ive seen show a 1 second lag and a screen flicker with that`
`08:45.44`	`tsukasa`	`plus i actually want the gui elements to be there`
`08:45.55`	`tsukasa`	`just infinitely less obtrusive`
`08:46.16`	`pupnik`	`then make it so!`
`08:46.17`	`KotCzarny`	`tsukasa, write/port some floating always-on-top bar?`
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`08:46.37`	`tsukasa`	`KotCzarny, im not that great at coding`
`08:46.42`	`tsukasa`	`whats involved in theming?`
`08:46.49`	`tsukasa`	`sliders or config files?`
`08:46.56`	`KotCzarny`	`have you ever heard about gtkrc ?`
`08:47.05`	`tsukasa`	`heard about yes used no`
`08:47.10`	`tsukasa`	`ive seen emerald theming`
`08:47.11`	`tsukasa`	`thats easy`
`08:47.26`	`KotCzarny`	`i think things may get complicated for you then :)`
`08:47.48`	`tsukasa`	`let me guess, its a giant list of key/value pairs`
`08:48.03`	`KotCzarny`	`kind of`
`08:48.04`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`08:48.09`	`tsukasa`	`sigh`
`08:48.24`	`KotCzarny`	`i have yet to spot a gtk theme editor`
`08:48.31`	`pupnik`	`theme maker`
`08:49.00`	`KotCzarny`	`pupnik: after adding simple parsing it can double as editor :)`
`08:49.32`	`KotCzarny`	`tsukasa: be prepared for the worst`
`08:49.56`	`KotCzarny`	`pupnik: does sdk provide usable maemo emulation?`
`08:50.11`	`KotCzarny`	`ie. to 'try and feel'`
`08:50.27`	`pupnik`	`ah good suggestion`
`08:50.48`	`pupnik`	`http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/ tsukasa`
`08:51.37`	`KotCzarny`	`tsukasa: there's an updated review from the same guy: http://cs.gmu.edu/~sean/stuff/n800/os2008/`
`08:51.38`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`08:52.18`	`pupnik`	`that guy is lucky he doesn't allow comments`
`08:52.44`	`KotCzarny`	`it should be noted 'for hxc newton users'`
`08:52.45`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`08:53.02`	`tsukasa`	`well its always good to read the review of the uber critic`
`08:53.31`	`pupnik`	`he's obviously not getting laid`
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`08:58.16`	`pupnik`	`reading through it, there are many good points`
`08:59.13`	`tsukasa`	`yeah`
`08:59.30`	`tsukasa`	`hmm sleep intrigues me`
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`08:59.37`	`tsukasa`	`does it work as bad as he claims?`
`08:59.46`	`tsukasa`	`(still?)`
`08:59.50`	`*** join/#maemo mbuf (n=shakthim@61.16.248.242)`
`08:59.57`	`KotCzarny`	`don't know nothing about it`
`09:00.21`	`KotCzarny`	`if i turn wifi off and have no badly written apps i get that ~10 days in standby`
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`09:01.22`	`pupnik`	`the dude clearly can't convince any female to fuck him`
`09:01.34`	`tsukasa`	`yeah but if its possible to get 30 day standby`
`09:01.35`	`tsukasa`	`im sold`
`09:01.39`	`tsukasa`	`because that is amazing`
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`09:02.08`	`KotCzarny`	`if astorm finally gets around to make 2xAA external battery pack, then yes`
`09:02.08`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
`09:02.24`	`pupnik`	`why the fuck do you care about 30 day standby`
`09:02.30`	`tsukasa`	`how does it fit in your pocket anyways`
`09:02.35`	`KotCzarny`	`good`
`09:02.38`	`tsukasa`	`pupnik, im a battery life whore`
`09:02.42`	`AStorm`	`hehehe`
`09:02.46`	`tsukasa`	`i slapped linux on my MBP for battery life`
`09:02.52`	`tsukasa`	`<3 powertop`
`09:02.53`	`AStorm`	`tsukasa: 2x AA should fit quite well`
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`09:04.03`	`pupnik`	`some people have 'problems' that make me want to bitchslap them`
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`09:04.42`	`KotCzarny`	`pupnik: i like the idea of 2 or 4xAA battery pack`
`09:04.44`	`KotCzarny`	`:>`
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`09:05.23`	`pupnik`	`yeah i have a spare power connector. will test it without a regulator on 770`
`09:05.53`	`KotCzarny`	`yyawn`
`09:05.56`	`KotCzarny`	`darn.`
`09:06.02`	`KotCzarny`	`it's morning again.`
`09:06.08`	`KotCzarny`	`gotta catch some sleep`
`09:06.18`	`pupnik`	`cheers KotCzarny`
`09:06.37`	`KotCzarny`	`night night`
`09:06.45`	`RST38h`	`midday, so it seems`
`09:07.14`	`AStorm`	`pupnik: you mean, you want to try 4x AA directly? let me tell how that fares`
`09:07.22`	`AStorm`	`it will work`
`09:07.42`	`AStorm`	`but if these are NiMH, the voltage may drop too much for further use after some time`
`09:07.48`	`AStorm`	`even though they aren't discharged`
`09:08.14`	`AStorm`	`you need at least a cheap power regulator`
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`09:08.52`	`AStorm`	`it's low to start with, 4,8V`
`09:08.57`	`pupnik`	`yes i'm curious how long before voltage drops too much`
`09:09.04`	`AStorm`	`if it drops more than about 0.2V, you lose`
`09:09.20`	`AStorm`	`I think about 2/3 of the capacity`
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`09:09.28`	`AStorm`	`ah, wait, no`
`09:09.29`	`pupnik`	`ah then it will be pretty useless`
`09:09.34`	`AStorm`	`it'll drop then by 0,1V`
`09:09.38`	`AStorm`	`which may or may not work`
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`09:09.48`	`AStorm`	`4,8V is pretty much guaranteed to work`
`09:11.10`	`pupnik`	`i just rarely run out of battery`
`09:11.20`	`pupnik`	`like twice this year`
`09:12.00`	`AStorm`	`:-)`
`09:12.10`	`AStorm`	`I also don't, but it's a close shave`
`09:12.30`	`AStorm`	`I certainly would if I used N as an MP3 player`
`09:13.36`	`tsukasa`	`hmm`
`09:13.37`	`Dist`	`My N95 shuts down every day just because I happen to use N810 through it`
`09:13.44`	`tsukasa`	`i guess i have one final question about the 800`
`09:14.05`	`tsukasa`	`can it connect to wpa/wpa2/wpa enterprise with peap`
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`09:24.01`	`pupnik`	`http://www.google.com/search?q=n800+wpa+peap`
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`09:38.27`	`florian`	`good morning`
`09:40.32`	`lardman`	`does anyone happen to know if C++ strings in structs are still zero terminated if they reach their maximum length in the struct? Don't tell me, up to the compiler....?`
`09:41.34`	`lardman`	`s/string/char array`
`09:42.15`	`inz`	`Why would char arrays in a struct differ from ones outside?`
`09:42.18`	`kaatis`	`lardman, i believe it's std library implementation specific`
`09:42.51`	`lardman`	`inz: only because if you don't meet the trailing 0x0 and you are at the know length of the array, you could not bother using one`
`09:43.05`	`lardman`	`though I imagine it will be included anyway`
`09:43.32`	`lardman`	`actually it was a silly question, need more caffeine to wake the brain`
`09:43.40`	`lardman`	`kaatis: cheers`
`09:44.50`	`lardman`	`~lart translating C++ into MATLAB`
`09:44.50`	`infobot`	`pries translating C++ into MATLAB's back open with a screwdriver and flashes a new bootldr to translating C++ into MATLAB`
`09:45.34`	`inz`	`lardman, can't be as pita as translating MATLAB into C`
`09:45.51`	`lardman`	`inz: yeah that is a real pain`
`09:46.03`	`derf`	`Depends on the C++.`
`09:46.17`	`derf`	`Matlab's language is basically completely deficient in a number of areas.`
`09:46.25`	`lardman`	`derf: yes, my question was a bit silly as it's up to the code using the array`
`09:47.01`	`lardman`	`but make up for it many times over by not needing to do array sizing`
`09:47.19`	`derf`	`I don't often spend a lot of time worrying about array sizing.`
`09:47.35`	`derf`	`And I'm mostly confused by people who do.`
`09:48.15`	`lardman`	`ah, my work is pretty much about manipulating image data in time, and taking chunks for it for processing, so lots of arrays`
`09:48.25`	`derf`	`lardman: So is mine.`
`09:49.14`	`lardman`	`theora stuff`
`09:50.01`	`derf`	`As well as my actual job.`
`09:50.13`	`lardman`	`ah, I didn't know if that was your actual job :)`
`09:50.20`	`derf`	`Theora is not.`
`09:50.25`	`lardman`	`ah, ok`
`09:53.17`	`derf`	`But no, I got my Ph.D. doing image analysis... and I'm probably the only person in the entire field who hates matlab.`
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`09:53.36`	`lardman`	`:) what do you hate about it?`
`09:53.41`	`lardman`	`out of interest`
`09:54.09`	`derf`	`It might be okay for doing an extremely small, limited set of things.`
`09:54.29`	`derf`	`The problems I want to solve almost never stay within that extremely small, limited set.`
`09:54.49`	`lardman`	`surely you then just write some code to cover a large set of things?`
`09:55.10`	`derf`	`No, I mean the language.`
`09:55.22`	`derf`	`Suddenly everything outside of that set becomes much more difficult to do.`
`09:55.50`	`derf`	`Almost as if these concepts were bolted on as an afterthought (gee, I can't imagine that's what happened).`
`09:56.31`	`derf`	`And I'd rather use a language that's mediocre at lots of things than one that's extremely good at a small set of things, and godawful at everything else.`
`09:57.13`	`lardman`	`I suppose it depends what you need to do, but as a procedural language it fits the bill, and saves having to write the glue code (array manipulation, various mathematical operations, etc.)`
`09:57.29`	`derf`	`You know, I can use LAPACK in C, too, if I really want to.`
`09:57.50`	`lardman`	`but it's more painful`
`09:58.09`	`derf`	`Matlab's problem is that it _requires_ obtuse array maniuplation to do anything.`
`09:58.15`	`derf`	`Including things that should have nothing to do with arrays.`
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`09:59.03`	`lardman`	`yes, but it trades that for cleaner code for things that do use arrays`
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`09:59.06`	`Khertan_TheReal`	`Joint`
`09:59.09`	`Khertan_TheReal`	`oups ...`
`09:59.12`	`Khertan_TheReal`	`Hi ! :)`
`09:59.44`	`derf`	`Which gets you crazy things like permute(reshape(fliplr(...),3,3,:),[1 3 2]) ... which leave you staring at that going, "What the hell does it _do_?"`
`10:00.36`	`lardman`	`but you cold write that in a different (slower) way if you wanted`
`10:00.41`	`lardman`	`s/cold/could`
`10:00.56`	`derf`	`Sure, but in matlab "slower" becomes by orders of magnitude, so nobody does.`
`10:01.12`	`lardman`	`but yes, the optimisations lead to obscure code`
`10:01.23`	`derf`	`They're not really optimizations.`
`10:01.27`	`derf`	`They're basically required.`
`10:01.50`	`lardman`	`agreed`
`10:02.10`	`derf`	`That's like saying, well, you _could_ use a garbage collector in C, so you can't complain about the fact that it makes you manually allocate things.`
`10:02.56`	`lardman`	`well if you wanted to garbage collect it would mean you'd need to write the glue code, the same is not true of MATLAB, you can write it whichever way you want, and then it just runs slower one way`
`10:03.09`	`lardman`	`or even both ways :)`
`10:03.18`	`jott`	`i see matlab rather as a prototyping language and for that matter it fulfills its purpose imo`
`10:04.13`	`lardman`	`yes, I was going to say that - to tackle new problems quickly, it does its job and allows you to tackle the algorithm (for which the obscure bits can be twiddled later) rather than the glue`
`10:06.50`	`lardman`	`though if I'd started using C rather than MATLAB and had written a library of functions to handle n-dim arrays, etc., I may not be so bothered about the 'advantages' that MATLAB has`
`10:08.56`	`jott`	`atleast the matlab convention trains you to think vectorized so it has some didactical value :)`
`10:11.41`	`lardman`	`it also has simulink which is why I started using it`
`10:11.49`	`lardman`	`bbiab`
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`10:23.09`	`Khertan_TheReal`	`does many of u use google calendar ?`
`10:23.31`	`Khertan_TheReal`	`i ask because i ll release a in few week a new calendar application for maemo ...`
`10:23.37`	`Khertan_TheReal`	`but it need syncing ...`
`10:24.13`	`Khertan_TheReal`	`so i ve two choice ... porting it to desktop, or using an online calendar ...`
`10:24.45`	`Khertan_TheReal`	`an other one will be to add support in erminig too`
`10:26.31`	`glass`	`if you want someone to use your calender, it better sync with something at least..`
`10:27.17`	`Khertan_TheReal`	`i ll make sync ... personnaly i ve preferences for google agenda`
`10:27.53`	`Khertan_TheReal`	`i ll be the main user ... the purpose of it is to have a calendar app that i ll use`
`10:28.05`	`Khertan_TheReal`	`not a killer application (but i still hope :) )`
`10:28.52`	`Khertan_TheReal`	`in fact it's a fork on winzing calendar ... with customisation, simplification, and some gui change to be easily be used on a nit`
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`11:10.13`	`soman`	`kulve: i solved the problem... now im getting the playbin video on my app window`
`11:10.19`	`soman`	`thanks for ur support`
`11:12.16`	`kulve`	`soman: great. What was the problem?`
`11:15.08`	`soman`	`the problem was the message was not exposed on the bus.,.. so i explicitly posted the message on the bus, and got it`
`11:15.19`	`soman`	`anyway thanks for ur support...`
`11:15.30`	`soman`	`would like to be in touch with you,,, in future`
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`12:28.53`	`lcuk`	`sneaks in from work`
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`12:55.13`	`hendry`	`is there a trick to make chinook keep its wlan0 online?`
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`13:02.54`	`pupnik`	`ping works`
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`13:04.23`	`mbuf`	`how can i run while (event) { inotifytools_printf} and also invoke gtk_main() ?`
`13:04.25`	`hendry`	`i thought there might be some hidden option somewhere`
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`13:46.46`	`hendry`	`who maintains http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/download/repo/dists/ ?`
`13:47.48`	`X-Fade_`	`hendry: I think some of the indt guys do that.`
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`14:06.55`	`Navi`	`Ooh`
`14:07.09`	`Navi`	`haptic feedback on the 5800`
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`14:32.24`	`qwerty12`	`Argh! God hates me :(. This kernel I built isn't booting. I'm gonna have to recompile :(`
`14:33.53`	`Navi`	`:(`
`14:34.36`	`qwerty12`	`I'm working on something good as well. Hopefully more functional than that unionfs I put out. :)`
`14:34.51`	`*** join/#maemo simon_ (n=simon@w208.wist.uni-linz.ac.at)`
`14:35.07`	`Navi`	`\o/`
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`14:44.53`	`fysa`	`\o/ = seconded`
`14:45.39`	`fysa`	`BTW qwerty12, I am running your super kernel.`
`14:45.48`	`fysa`	`thanks for that.`
`14:45.54`	`qwerty12`	`fysa, nice :). np :)`
`14:46.09`	`qwerty12`	`I call it experimental because I don't know if it has any problems :P`
`14:46.42`	`fysa`	`no worries`
`14:46.48`	`qwerty12`	`The only reason I made it was because I saw some other kernels but it would mean giving up the features that fanoush made in his kernel. So he gave the source patch and I applied it :)`
`14:46.49`	`qwerty12`	`Thanks :)`
`14:48.07`	`RST38h`	`what is in that kernel?`
`14:49.44`	`qwerty12`	`let me find the page a sec, I don't even remember. Basically, features I don't use :p`
`14:49.59`	`fysa`	`http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19104`
`14:50.13`	`qwerty12`	`You got there faster than me >.<`
`14:52.48`	`RST38h`	`=)`
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`14:53.49`	`RST38h`	`Umgh`
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`14:58.17`	`qwerty12`	`RST38h, Nice work on the Colecovision emulator. But it isn't for me as I wasn't even around then :P. My Dad still has memories of his one :p`
`14:59.11`	`*** join/#maemo zwnj (n=behnam@213.207.217.39)`
`15:04.32`	`RST38h`	`qwerty: Now you will have to buy a tablet for your dad =)`
`15:05.32`	`qwerty12`	`Hehe, my dad doesn't like my one. He wanted me to get a eee pc >.<. But I liked the N800 and I also wanted to do some wifi hacking lol`
`15:05.46`	`RST38h`	`And I still have MasterSystem, GameBoy and NES to port`
`15:06.26`	`qwerty12`	`Wow, gameboy would be amazing. I currently use PyBoy to run Cokemon. While not bad, it could be improved.`
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`15:15.46`	`elb`	`is the colecovision different from the coleco intellivision?`
`15:16.38`	`elb`	`oh, it looks like the intellivision was mattel`
`15:16.39`	`elb`	`hmm`
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`15:33.32`	`Khertan_TheReal`	`?`
`15:33.40`	`qwerty12`	`?`
`15:33.45`	`johnx`	`?!`
`15:33.48`	`qwerty12`	`???`
`15:33.50`	`Khertan_TheReal`	`<PROTECTED>`
`15:33.56`	`qwerty12`	`????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????`
`15:34.00`	`Khertan_TheReal`	`khertan_ > !shutdown`
`15:34.06`	`Khertan_TheReal`	`arg ww`
`15:34.23`	`johnx`	`two Khertans enter, one may leave!`
`15:34.28`	`qwerty12`	`I think Wanadoo still exists in the UK`
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`15:35.00`	`johnx`	`oh noes. O_o he got scared away`
`15:35.07`	`Khertan_TheReal`	`hehe`
`15:35.20`	`Khertan_TheReal`	`ouch wanadoo.fr ... huhu`
`15:35.27`	`Khertan_TheReal`	`i m in france :)`
`15:35.47`	`Khertan_TheReal`	`but orange/wanadoo many things aren't really well separated`
`15:35.49`	`Navi`	`/bu 2`
`15:35.53`	`Navi`	`uugh`
`15:36.05`	`Khertan_TheReal`	`in fact i has always be the same ... France Telecom`
`15:36.09`	`Khertan_TheReal`	`:)`
`15:36.30`	`qwerty12`	`Hehe :). But there was a UK one as well. I think they may have got bought out though. Wanadoo at the time bought freeserve, a UK ISP owned by Dixons in the UK :)`
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`15:37.28`	`Khertan_TheReal`	`was the same ... france telecom :)`
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`15:37.39`	`Khertan_TheReal`	`as alice was telecom italia`
`15:37.45`	`qwerty12`	`Ah :)`
`15:38.03`	`lopz`	`hi`
`15:38.16`	`Khertan_TheReal`	`t-mobile is deutsch telecom`
`15:38.32`	`lardman`	`lcuk: hmm, isn't the screen only 16bit though?`
`15:39.01`	`Khertan_TheReal`	`sfr is vivendi ... which is Universal ...`
`15:39.34`	`Khertan_TheReal`	`after this moment of history about this very small company ...`
`15:39.40`	`Khertan_TheReal`	`i ll go on ... take my train`
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`15:39.47`	`Khertan_TheReal`	`bye :)`
`15:39.51`	`qwerty12`	`Bye :)`
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`15:55.48`	`qwerty12`	`Has anyone built a kernel with CONFIG_TIMER_STATS enabled and the N800 boots fine? ATM, this is my second recompile and I think that option may be causing my N800 not to boot.`
`15:56.25`	`hrw`	`qwerty12: powertop?`
`15:56.31`	`qwerty12`	`hrw, yes`
`15:56.40`	`hrw`	`qwerty12: it booted for me but wifi did not worked`
`15:57.04`	`qwerty12`	`hrw, ah thanks. One of my other options seems to be conflicting then :/`
`15:57.18`	`hrw`	`qwerty12: enable only that then`
`15:57.39`	`qwerty12`	`hrw: I want other features too :)`
`15:57.47`	`hrw`	`;)`
`15:57.51`	`hrw`	`one step at time`
`15:58.29`	`qwerty12`	`I'm impatient :P`
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`15:58.39`	`qwerty12`	`(spelling?)`
`15:58.52`	`inz`	`qwerty, and it seems like you're getting much faster forward this way?`
`15:59.19`	`*** join/#maemo GAN8001 (n=ryan@c-69-244-211-19.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)`
`15:59.46`	`qwerty12`	`inz, No but I'm not one for problem solving TBH. (Not that I wouldn't like to be. I just lack the brain power)`
`16:00.31`	`hrw`	`qwerty12: impotent you meant?`
`16:00.57`	`qwerty12`	`Joke right? :p`
`16:01.40`	`qwerty12`	`I hope >.<. All my plumbing is fine afaik`
`16:02.10`	`hrw`	`;D`
`16:03.05`	`qwerty12`	`Hehe :D. I've taken out Timer option. I'm not so bothered about powertop, but if it worked it would be nice :)`
`16:04.17`	`*** join/#maemo GAN800 (n=ryan@pdpc/supporter/active/generalantilles)`
`16:05.31`	`hrw`	`qwerty12: wat you want to add to kernel?`
`16:06.58`	`qwerty12`	`hrw, Nothing much. I've already added "(fixed rotation, 48Hz Faster MMC, extended brightness & crypto api) , plus the USB DMA & Powercheck disabled, LUKS, IPv6 and the case copy symbol. Be careful when using this one." and I want to add something else, I'll keep it a surprise until (if) it works ;P`
`16:07.59`	`qwerty12`	`Yep, timer option was causing my N800 not to boot. Probably doesn't get on with the framebuffer enabled.`
`16:08.59`	`*** join/#maemo geaaru (n=geaaru@host23-213-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)`
`16:10.54`	`qwerty12`	`Does anyone else's kernels get compiled with no "sw-release"? It makes the about panel say <unknown>. It's odd because the kernel I compiled this morning had the version in and the one I compiled just now with EXACTLY the same settings as the one in the morning has no version info in it :(`
`16:14.38`	`qwerty12`	`Ok, sorry to be annoying but is there any way to fix modprobe on this device? A few scripts I've seen use modprobe over insmod :/ and I can't be bothered to replace modprobe strings :P`
`16:18.22`	`*** join/#maemo hugolp (n=jo@unaffiliated/hugolp)`
`16:19.54`	`*** join/#maemo dougt (n=dougt@guest-226.mountainview.mozilla.com)`
`16:23.45`	`fysa`	maybe something like.. a script with: insmod `which "$1"`
`16:23.50`	`fysa`	`wait, that wouldn't work.`
`16:24.16`	`qwerty12`	`fysa, Thanks but it doesn't matter. I couldn't get this to work when using insmod :(`
`16:28.49`	`*** join/#maemo playya (n=playya@pD9E0889F.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`16:29.55`	`qwerty12`	`Our camera sucks knob. Why? (Not because of the crappy picture quality btw)`
`16:29.55`	`qwerty12`	`http://pastebin.ca/994694`
`16:30.05`	`qwerty12`	`WTF IS UWVY?`
`16:30.20`	`qwerty12`	`s/UWVY/UYVY`
`16:31.55`	`GeneralAntilles`	`This: http://www.fourcc.org/yuv.php#UYVY`
`16:32.25`	`qwerty12`	`Most popular? :(. Now I'm upset.`
`16:34.28`	`qwerty12`	`Arg, I don't know anything about video's. I thought this would be a simple recompile (which it was) but stupid OMAP webcam :(`
`16:34.36`	`*** join/#maemo geaaru_ (n=geaaru@host194-218-dynamic.16-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)`
`16:34.38`	`qwerty12`	`All I wanted was video in flash.`
`16:34.56`	`qwerty12`	`s/I don't know anything about video's/I don't know anything about video systems`
`16:38.10`	`*** join/#maemo behdad (n=behdad@209.167.232.101)`
`16:38.38`	`Atarii`	`qwerty12, would it be possible to get rotation in the kernel in 2008he?`
`16:39.05`	`*** join/#maemo greentux (n=lemke@Z5899.z.pppool.de)`
`16:39.25`	`qwerty12`	`Atarii, probably. I'm not sure what kernel 770 uses and also I wouldn't be able to backport the code. More fanoush's area.`
`16:40.25`	`Atarii`	`2.6.16.27-omap1 kernel i think`
`16:41.47`	`qwerty12`	`Ahh, ok. If I have time, I will try and find the source of that kernel. But I can only do a quick "port" of the rotation code. May not work.`
`16:43.01`	`Atarii`	`awesome! thanks and i look forward to any progress`
`16:44.38`	`qwerty12`	`Np, but I must note I probably won't be able to do it (not from lack of trying but from lack of knowledge) and I'm not a developer. Plus I've never compiled 770 kernel before :). jott may be a good person to ask for info (he did the port of the mamona code to maemo)`
`16:46.31`	`Atarii`	`yea ive spoke to jott`
`16:49.37`	`qwerty12`	`fook, this flash webcam code is going to need some sorting.`
`16:49.59`	`qwerty12`	`BTW: Out of question, would anyone be interested if I did get camera to work in flash?`
`16:54.05`	`qwerty12`	`Interesting. The camera is RGBP on boot but Internet call program sets it to UYVY`
`16:56.26`	`*** join/#maemo [pcfe] (n=pcfe@a88-112-5-135.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`16:59.23`	`*** join/#maemo jeez (n=jeez@200.184.118.132)`
`16:59.52`	`johnx`	`Atarii, I'm not sure if the 770's LCD controller has rotation support. The reason it happened so quickly with the n8x0 is that the epson LCD controller does all the work`
`17:05.15`	`*** join/#maemo ralann (n=ralann@oit-142-157.OIT.EDU)`
`17:06.24`	`*** join/#maemo Crfrod (n=Crfrod@88.214.193.26)`
`17:06.40`	`*** join/#maemo smackpotato (n=user@69.158.250.136)`
`17:06.51`	`*** join/#maemo celesteh (n=celesteh@82-46-164-29.cable.ubr01.harb.blueyonder.co.uk)`
`17:06.55`	`*** join/#maemo dpap (n=chatzill@ppp079166034226.dsl.hol.gr)`
`17:07.18`	`dpap`	`Where can i find the list with all maemo phones?`
`17:07.30`	`pancake`	`phones?`
`17:07.44`	`*** part/#maemo celesteh (n=celesteh@82-46-164-29.cable.ubr01.harb.blueyonder.co.uk)`
`17:07.46`	`pancake`	`here: n770, n800, n810`
`17:07.48`	`qwerty12`	`Any developers around?`
`17:08.04`	`\|\|cw`	`there are no maemo "phones"`
`17:08.12`	`smackpotato`	`i think the wiki but thats a guess`
`17:08.13`	`dpap`	`mobiles what ever`
`17:08.19`	`pancake`	`internet tablets`
`17:08.22`	`pancake`	`or enhanced pdas`
`17:08.27`	`pancake`	`but not phones or mobiles`
`17:08.31`	`pancake`	`no gsm on them`
`17:08.33`	`dpap`	`yes`
`17:08.39`	`dpap`	`but where?`
`17:08.46`	`pancake`	`here: n770, n800, n810`
`17:08.59`	`\|\|cw`	`tablets, handhelds maybe... they aren't very good at being a PDA so "enhanced" wouldn't work`
`17:09.09`	`smackpotato`	`i think he wants to pair with bluetooth`
`17:09.24`	`\|\|cw`	`dpap: there's no "list" because there are only 3, as pancake has said`
`17:10.18`	`dpap`	`those 3 tablets has got the latest maemo software?`
`17:10.40`	`smackpotato`	`http://maemo.org/community/wiki/bluetoothdun/`
`17:10.44`	`\|\|cw`	`there's an outdated one, one with 2 SD slots for lots of storage, and one with a keyboard and gps`
`17:11.11`	`lcuk`	`there are technically 4, the new 810 wimax`
`17:11.28`	`\|\|cw`	`dpap: 770 won't run "the latest" officially, there is an endition that will install, but it's not really stable`
`17:12.29`	`dpap`	`can i have maemo 4 on n800?`
`17:12.40`	`qwerty12`	`Ok, from this snippet of code: http://pastebin.ca/994754 , can anyone tell me the format of the .flashcamrc file please?`
`17:12.55`	`GeneralAntilles`	`dpap, maemo 4 is the development platform`
`17:13.01`	`GeneralAntilles`	`You can have OS2008 on an N800.`
`17:13.07`	`lcuk`	`dpap, if you mean OS2008 then yes sure. nokia released the new one and its fully compatible`
`17:13.20`	`lcuk`	`os2008 is the hi GeneralAntilles`
`17:13.27`	`lcuk`	`offs - the other crap`
`17:13.27`	`*** join/#maemo jwatt____ (n=roslea@ip1-182-173-82.adsl2.versatel.nl)`
`17:13.38`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Hi, lcuk. :)`
`17:14.09`	`dpap`	`Is n800 upgradeable????`
`17:14.13`	`lcuk`	`yes`
`17:14.22`	`\|\|cw`	`dpap: the OS is, ye`
`17:14.29`	`lcuk`	`the os2007 that comes included on the n800 can be fully upgraded to os2008`
`17:14.42`	`lcuk`	`(reflashes actually)`
`17:14.50`	`GeneralAntilles`	`\|\|cw, what, you can install the latest Nvidia Geforce card? :P`
`17:14.55`	`GeneralAntilles`	`s/can/can't/`
`17:15.29`	`lcuk`	`why not, im sure theres some PCI express port somewhere on the n8x0 but we dont have drivers for it`
`17:15.34`	`\|\|cw`	`well, or add ram, or internal storage, or add an internal gps...`
`17:15.44`	`lcuk`	`has an internal gps in his n810`
`17:15.45`	`qwerty12`	`If only we could, maybe we'd get opengl`
`17:15.46`	`johnx`	`lcuk, pretty sure there's not even a PCI bus`
`17:15.50`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Somehow I doubt it, lcuk. :P`
`17:15.59`	`*** join/#maemo VimS (n=vims@dslb-084-061-063-047.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`17:16.03`	`GeneralAntilles`	`You can actually see all the buses we have on TI's website. :D`
`17:16.11`	`lcuk`	`johnx, there is, its driver will be installed for Duke Nukem Forever Maemo edition`
`17:16.11`	`johnx`	`lcuk, just repeat after me "Embedded systems are weeeeird."`
`17:16.12`	`\|\|cw`	`could be a pcicma interface`
`17:16.27`	`GeneralAntilles`	`There isn't, \|\|cw. ;)`
`17:16.28`	`qwerty12`	`I don't see any buses here: http://www.trapmuzik.com/`
`17:16.29`	`johnx`	`\|\|cw, keep guessing. :)`
`17:16.30`	`\|\|cw`	`but not likely cardbus`
`17:16.46`	`\|\|cw`	`extra gpio's?`
`17:17.12`	`johnx`	`probably plenty, especially if you rip out something useless (like the camera)`
`17:17.32`	`smackpotato`	`you can check out the omap chip on ti site`
`17:17.34`	`\|\|cw`	`i bet there's some freak out there that could make a pcmcia vga card work via some gio's`
`17:17.39`	`\|\|cw`	`gpio's`
`17:17.43`	`lcuk`	`dont need gpio - we have full 3d hardware. we can RENDER anything *`
`17:17.48`	`lcuk`	`*ymmv`
`17:17.56`	`\|\|cw`	`up to 640x480`
`17:18.03`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Up to and including Halo 3, lcuk?`
`17:18.04`	`\|\|cw`	`if I understand correctly`
`17:18.08`	`X-Fade_`	`There was this guy that had removed the FM radio chip in the N800 and used those..`
`17:18.17`	`johnx`	`O_o`
`17:18.20`	`lcuk`	`and - can you seriously see an individual pixel at 1/225inch?`
`17:18.25`	`lcuk`	`especially in a 3d game?`
`17:18.48`	`lcuk`	`3d 640*480 is NOT a reason to hold back on the driver`
`17:18.53`	`X-Fade_`	`I can't find the link to the page anymore, but that was a nice hardware hack :)`
`17:19.00`	`\|\|cw`	`no, but the bandwidth of the lcd is`
`17:19.14`	`lcuk`	`but 640*480 at 33fps is ENTIRELY doable`
`17:19.20`	`lcuk`	`i do it now from the cpu`
`17:19.36`	`lcuk`	`800*480 is also doable at 25fps`
`17:19.41`	`NOCmadman`	`can default programs such as pdf reader, and the file manager be removed to clean up space ?`
`17:19.47`	`lcuk`	`think outside the box and turn to yuv :)`
`17:20.13`	`GeneralAntilles`	`NOCmadman, you could, but it'll only save you a couple of MB`
`17:20.27`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Remove the ~40MB of PDFs and media that comes bundled instead.`
`17:20.30`	`lcuk`	`if you delete the file manager does it delete all the files it manages?`
`17:20.34`	`johnx`	`most of the stuff taking up space is used by everything`
`17:20.45`	`johnx`	`lcuk, yes, but only on your tablet`
`17:20.45`	`*** join/#maemo jwatt____ (n=roslea@ip1-182-173-82.adsl2.versatel.nl)`
`17:20.56`	`lcuk`	`phew, i thought he would wipe out everyones`
`17:21.26`	`fysa`	`compiz would be great. I would love a mini 3D desktop. ;)`
`17:22.03`	`fysa`	`the best part would be that zooming would be free.`
`17:22.10`	`fysa`	`and smooth.`
`17:23.06`	`johnx`	`probably not on an omap2...`
`17:23.08`	`lcuk`	`the thing about this resolution hang up: the iphone manages to have an amazing interface at a MUCH lower resolution to us - if we could use a lowres highly fancy front end and only switch to highres slower updating when required we would gain a lot of wow factor`
`17:23.39`	`johnx`	`they also have a faster processor and better (let alone working) 3D hardware`
`17:23.50`	`johnx`	`and a lot more man-hours of dev time`
`17:24.00`	`fysa`	`and corporate interest`
`17:24.10`	`GeneralAntilles`	`and a much smaller screen, lcuk.`
`17:24.16`	`\|\|cw`	`and rabid fanbois`
`17:24.21`	`johnx`	`and the Jobs hype-machine`
`17:24.22`	`lcuk`	`johnx, i thought they had identical 3d hardware to us (except for the drivers)`
`17:24.28`	`GeneralAntilles`	`No`
`17:24.38`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Their hardware is pretty radically different from ours.`
`17:25.01`	`lcuk`	`will be demonstrating something at linuxtag which will put money where my mouth is`
`17:25.09`	`johnx`	`I look forward to it :D`
`17:25.12`	`*** join/#maemo mtron_x86 (n=mtron@clnet-p03-203.ikbnet.co.at)`
`17:25.13`	`lcuk`	`so do i`
`17:25.18`	`johnx`	`though I won't be there in person :/`
`17:25.41`	`X-Fade_`	`http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24TXpqa9jG0 OpenGL ES 2.0 shader effects on OMAP3`
`17:25.53`	`lcuk`	`i love the 800*480 screen, but if it is seriously limited at that resolution the only possible thing to do with hardware is to allow resolution independence, let the user choose`
`17:25.56`	`X-Fade_`	`Can I have that please ;)`
`17:26.01`	`fysa`	`I think it's more similar than not?`
`17:26.07`	`johnx`	`X-Fade_, I don't think anyone is disputing what the OMAP3 is capable of :)`
`17:26.16`	`fysa`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerVR#Series_4_.28MBX.29`
`17:26.24`	`lcuk`	`X-Fade_, you are attending ltag arent u`
`17:26.28`	`NOCmadman`	`already removed pdf's, moves, mp3's was just trying to clean up stuff i have replaced by other programs`
`17:26.35`	`fysa`	`they are both PowerVR MBX?`
`17:26.36`	`GeneralAntilles`	`needs N900 now. . . .`
`17:26.42`	`johnx`	`X-Fade_, that looks like the Valve Source demo...`
`17:27.04`	`*** join/#maemo christefano (n=christef@adsl-69-230-175-116.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net)`
`17:27.05`	`smackpotato`	`when do we get omap3`
`17:27.19`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Hopefully this fall.`
`17:27.19`	`lcuk`	`never on this device`
`17:27.34`	`johnx`	`Every time someone asks it gets pushed back a month :)`
`17:28.05`	`smackpotato`	`gets out the soldering iron`
`17:29.46`	`*** join/#maemo Mousey (n=AreYou@dsl093-144-195.sba1.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`17:30.00`	`fysa`	`http://airlied.livejournal.com/39506.html`
`17:30.38`	`fysa`	`nm`
`17:31.56`	`johnx`	`yeah, I keep really picking the winners in terms of slow video in ARM Linux devices`
`17:32.13`	`johnx`	`Zaurus C1000 then N800...`
`17:32.35`	`*** join/#maemo Dantas (n=Dantas@201.35.247.192)`
`17:33.50`	`Dantas`	`Its ARM?`
`17:34.00`	`Dantas`	`on maemo's devices?`
`17:34.29`	`GeneralAntilles`	`armel`
`17:34.32`	`GeneralAntilles`	`specifically`
`17:34.37`	`johnx`	`the Nokia 770, N800, and N810 all have ARM CPUs`
`17:35.15`	`johnx`	`GeneralAntilles, hate to say it but "armel" isn't really a hardware archictecture, it stands for ARM w/ EABI (little endian)`
`17:35.28`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Yes, I know.`
`17:35.29`	`johnx`	`at least as Debian uses it`
`17:35.34`	`GeneralAntilles`	`But it might be relevant to his question. :P`
`17:35.44`	`johnx`	`fair enough. :)`
`17:35.55`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Ugh`
`17:35.59`	`*** join/#maemo term-sig (i=joshua@chaosarmy.org)`
`17:36.00`	`GeneralAntilles`	`meanwhile fucked up the maemo article again.`
`17:36.03`	`GeneralAntilles`	`What a dumbass`
`17:36.16`	`johnx`	`just let him 0wn it for a week until he forgets about it`
`17:36.24`	`johnx`	`you can only win by not playing`
`17:36.26`	`fysa`	`GA is seeping with wonderful knowledge that must envelope and consume all.`
`17:42.02`	`*** join/#maemo fab (n=bellet@bellet.info)`
`17:42.09`	`*** join/#maemo T0b0tras (n=boris@ppp91-76-138-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru)`
`17:42.22`	`*** join/#maemo l7 (n=l7@evil-wire.org)`
`17:45.48`	`*** join/#maemo Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun)`
`17:46.21`	`*** join/#maemo blassey (n=blassey@pc-a81192.wlan.inet.fi)`
`17:49.48`	`*** join/#maemo qwerty12_N800 (n=user@host-84-9-53-53.dslgb.com)`
`17:53.06`	`*** join/#maemo luizirber (n=lc@201-92-23-174.dsl.telesp.net.br)`
`17:56.07`	`Jaffa`	`re`
`17:56.25`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Howdy, Jaffa.`
`17:57.40`	`Jaffa`	`'s BT headphones have had one of their rubber buds fallen off`
`18:04.41`	`jott`	`haha man, this meanwhile is so pathetic.`
`18:04.49`	`qwerty12_N800`	`+1`
`18:05.29`	`qwerty12_N800`	`GeneralAntilles: Any removing plans?`
`18:06.02`	`Navi`	`omg`
`18:06.03`	`jott`	`i would pledge for a complaint`
`18:06.11`	`Navi`	`my n800 froze`
`18:06.12`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Somebody else can fight it.`
`18:06.19`	`Navi`	`duz any1 have a virus checker?`
`18:06.27`	`Navi`	`it might be a virus`
`18:06.30`	`jott`	`i think i'll write a virus scanner :)`
`18:06.35`	`johnx`	`Navi, I think Darius was working on one :D`
`18:06.37`	`Navi`	`i need 2 remove it`
`18:06.38`	`jott`	`(with a 0 bytes signature file)`
`18:07.01`	`jott`	`or just a messagebox "No virus found"`
`18:07.09`	`Navi`	`n800 is too unsecure. I dun kno how 2 use iptables`
`18:07.12`	`jott`	`maybe he feels more secure then ;)`
`18:07.31`	`Navi`	`so duz any1 haev another firewalll i can use?`
`18:07.50`	`fysa`	`I use ZoneAlarm on my N800.`
`18:07.58`	`Navi`	`Haha, all of those spelling mistakes are from me trying to type 100WPM`
`18:08.16`	`johnx`	`yeah "zonealarm: you know it's working cause now your virus scanner can't download new signatures..."`
`18:08.43`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Ha`
`18:08.53`	`Navi`	`lol`
`18:09.35`	`jott`	`we could also just build a clamav deb`
`18:09.51`	`Navi`	`I was going to do it, but I'm much too lazy.`
`18:09.56`	`johnx`	`that would actually have some marginal usefulness at least`
`18:10.02`	`Navi`	`clamav is even worthless on the desktop`
`18:10.03`	`*** join/#maemo b0unc3_ (n=b0unc3@host-84-223-137-122.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)`
`18:10.05`	`fysa`	`ZoneAlarm: Because you trust the State of Israel's national intelligence agency to protect your sensitive data.`
`18:11.01`	`GeneralAntilles`	`I love the Qtopia section.`
`18:11.19`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Because wikipedia is the perfect place for rumor mongering.`
`18:12.03`	`Navi`	`Can I set string object equal to a c-style string?`
`18:12.15`	`johnx`	`ahaha...my screensaver came on in N800/Debian and I thought my LCD controller had just given up the ghost`
`18:12.16`	`Mikho`	`Is there a difference between the terms Maemo and Internet Tablet OS?`
`18:12.28`	`Navi`	`like, tehstring = cstring`
`18:12.46`	`Navi`	`Ahh, ghost`
`18:12.48`	`qwerty12_N800`	`"Scratchbox-compatible rootstraps are available for both x86 and ARMEL, so the majority of development and debugging takes place on x86, with final packaging being for ARMEL." 5 star fucking idiot.`
`18:12.49`	`Navi`	`runs`
`18:12.52`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Mikho, maemo is the development platform, Internet Tablet OS is the OS shipped with the 770, N800, N810 and N810W`
`18:13.00`	`qwerty12_N800`	`1. source! 2. missing logic (ie explain why with rootstraps available for both cpus, x86 is used until the late stages) 3. does the term rootstrap really add enough meaning to counter for its obscurity? this is a general encyclopedia, and articles should be written appropriately 4. ditto "final packaging"`
`18:13.07`	`Mikho`	`okay`
`18:13.17`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Hehe, I don't disagree that the SDK section sucks.`
`18:13.32`	`GeneralAntilles`	`But rather than blabbering about it on the talk page, I wish he would do something useful and fix it.`
`18:14.15`	`jott`	`as if he knew anything about the sdk or even linux/unix in general`
`18:14.18`	`johnx`	`a rootstrap (after much pain on my part learning this) is just another word for chroot`
`18:14.24`	`qwerty12_N800`	`Definitely but we know he has a problem with adding to articles.`
`18:14.50`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Hopefully brontide jumps in there again`
`18:14.52`	`jott`	`and citing himself in a forum thread ...`
`18:14.58`	`GeneralAntilles`	`he seems to have the will and energy to fight idiocy.`
`18:15.05`	`GeneralAntilles`	`jott, yeah, impressive isn't it?`
`18:15.29`	`Navi`	`I demand the purge of all stupid people`
`18:15.33`	`Navi`	`starting with Navi`
`18:15.35`	`Navi`	`I hate his guts`
`18:15.52`	`qwerty12_N800`	`Really?`
`18:16.08`	`johnx`	`reminds me of a penny arcade strip "But if we kill anyone who's stupid or ugly we'll never make it out of the mall!"`
`18:16.21`	`Navi`	`Haha`
`18:16.22`	`qwerty12_N800`	`lol`
`18:16.32`	`Navi`	`I need to catch up on penny arcade strips`
`18:16.39`	`johnx`	`that's a real old one`
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`18:20.11`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Dead Rising was a fun one.`
`18:20.52`	`Navi`	`Dead Rising is a funny game`
`18:21.55`	`Navi`	`So uh, can anyone answer that question? I don't want to resort to the #c++ guys`
`18:22.02`	`Navi`	`They're evil and trolly >_>`
`18:22.26`	`Navi`	`and raped me when I was five years old`
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`18:22.34`	`Navi`	`s/raped/raeped/`
`18:26.27`	`elb`	`Navi: you can do thestring = string(cstring), if not`
`18:26.35`	`elb`	`or string thestring(cstring)`
`18:26.49`	`Navi`	`kk, thanks :D`
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`18:29.00`	`elb`	`(I suspect there's an assignment operator, but it's been a long time since I was forced to stoop to C++)`
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`18:32.54`	`nomis`	`Navi: it is not the C++ guys that is evil and trolly, it is C++.`
`18:33.03`	`mgedmin`	`wonders why Navi doesn't just try it out and see`
`18:33.27`	`mgedmin`	`was at one point honestly convinced C++ was a great programming language`
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`18:34.09`	`jott`	`it's really what you make out of it.`
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`18:34.50`	`nomis`	`mgedmin: yay for the recklessness of the youth! :)`
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`18:35.36`	`nomis`	`jott: yeah, that is exactly the problem. C++ gives you lots of rope to hang yourself with. And everyone picks different ropes.`
`18:35.59`	`RST38h`	`Actually, there is a limited set of ropes`
`18:36.10`	`jott`	`nomis: just pick the right ones and use qt :>`
`18:36.13`	`mgedmin`	`that's not the problem; the problem is that it requires you to wave your own ladder out of the rope instead of giving you an elevator`
`18:36.22`	`mgedmin`	`s/wave/weave/`
`18:36.30`	`mgedmin`	`thank you very much, infobot`
`18:36.38`	`nomis`	`RST38h: I guess it is countable finite.`
`18:36.51`	`RST38h`	`anyway, what was the initial question/`
`18:36.51`	`nomis`	`infinite.`
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`18:38.00`	`Navi`	`elb, what do you work with nowadays, python? Ruby on Rails?`
`18:38.14`	`elb`	`whatever I choose`
`18:38.19`	`Navi`	`mmk`
`18:38.28`	`elb`	`80% of what I do is in either C or Ruby (no rails)`
`18:38.50`	`elb`	`the other 20% is perl, python, tcl, whatever some specific project uses`
`18:38.55`	`Navi`	`The RoR community is full of jerks :(`
`18:39.10`	`elb`	`well, if you discount Make and bourne ... those are a good 50% of my total output ;-)`
`18:39.53`	`nomis`	`RST38h: I admittedly did not see it, I guess something like "How do I create a string object from a const char array" or "how do I assign a const char array to a string" or whatever. Stuff that should be easy but is full of traps.`
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`18:40.54`	`jott`	`well most languages are full of traps if you are not used to them.`
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`18:41.50`	`nomis`	`jott: true. C++ is my special favourite though.`
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`18:42.56`	`Navi`	`likes ropes`
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`18:47.40`	`elb`	`C++ is more full of traps than most`
`18:48.03`	`elb`	`I highly recommend Stroustrup's "Design and Evolution of The C++ Programming Language" (or something like that)`
`18:48.08`	`elb`	`it's ... instructive`
`18:48.29`	`jott`	`well it really depends on what parts you consider - stl/boost for example or with the great abstractions qt.`
`18:48.36`	`Navi`	`needs ebook copies`
`18:48.46`	`nomis`	`actually recommends the C++ FQA (sic!): http://yosefk.com/c++fqa/`
`18:48.49`	`Navi`	`If it doesn't fit in my pocket, it's likely that I'm not going to read it`
`18:49.01`	`nomis`	`it definitely is biased but it has a lots of good points on why C++ is bad.`
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`18:50.20`	`jott`	`it's like "the language has some subsets that contain flaws but you are fine not using them - still i use them as my main argument"`
`18:50.59`	`jott`	`(or atleast knowing the flaws)`
`18:51.07`	`elb`	`the thing about C++ is that you can't just ignore many parts of it`
`18:51.16`	`elb`	`people love to say you can, but mostly they dont' know enough of the language to know why it's dangerous`
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`18:51.23`	`nomis`	`C++ is "oh, lets do OO in C and trick the C programmers into thinking it is the same language and they would gain from their prior knowledge. Then we reuse all their operators with totally different semantics!"`
`18:51.29`	`elb`	`and as long as you don't hit the corner cases for the parts you don't understand, you're mostly OK`
`18:51.37`	`elb`	`but then when it explodes, figuring out why takes a true guru`
`18:51.56`	`nomis`	`"lets use the shift operator for iostreams. That is clever!"`
`18:52.04`	`fysa`	`it takes a guru meditation.`
`18:52.39`	`lcuk`	`SOFTWARE FAILURE. PRESS LEFT MOUSE BUTTON TO CONTINUE`
`18:52.47`	`elb`	`while the choice of operator for iostreams is a little lame, typed output is a nice idea`
`18:52.50`	`nomis`	`and "std::cout << std::hex << std::setfill('0') << std::setw(8) << x << std::dec << std::endl;" is so much easier than "printf("0x%08xn", x)"`
`18:52.55`	`elb`	`I don't think iostreams got it right, but still`
`18:53.17`	`nomis`	`loves how input with iostreams leads to endless loops on CTRL-D.`
`18:54.03`	`jott`	`nomis: this is just some cosmetic argument and it's not even valid in my eyes.`
`18:54.27`	`nomis`	`jott: why?`
`18:55.05`	`nomis`	`(cosmetics is btw. IMHO important. Not that C would be much better in that regard)`
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`18:56.15`	`keesj`	`ruby give love, try to beat that :p`
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`18:56.51`	`jott`	`nomis: 1) you can use printf in c++ or some other function for special purposes. 2) you could also just stream some complex objects as a counter example and then the printf would look ugly`
`18:56.54`	`johnx`	`gimp on the N800 is disturbingly usable O_o`
`18:57.28`	`nomis`	`jott: yeah, if your complex has exactly one desired output. Typically this is not true though.`
`18:57.50`	`jott`	`printf("%s",my_object_to_string(OBJECT_CAST(object))); std::out << object;`
`18:57.50`	`nomis`	`e.g. one human readable and one serialized form of your complex object.`
`18:58.49`	`nomis`	`jott: is the latter the serialized form that gets sent to the network or the form that gets printed to the terminal?`
`18:59.18`	`jott`	`well fwiw, std::out << object.toString();`
`18:59.53`	`nomis`	`jott: ok, but then we're at the same level as the printf again: printf ("%s", object.toString());`
`19:00.06`	`nomis`	`oh wait, we probably need object.toString().c_str()`
`19:00.30`	`jott`	`see it's a really pointless discussion`
`19:01.29`	`nomis`	`:)`
`19:01.42`	`RST38h`	`nomis: The answer is "string objects are evil"`
`19:01.47`	`RST38h`	`Don't use them`
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`19:02.30`	`nomis`	`the fun really starts when you try to figure out why the C++ compilers have to be so dog slow. It is a problem inherent to the language.`
`19:02.41`	`nomis`	`(it is not context free)`
`19:02.47`	`RST38h`	`C++ compilers are not slow`
`19:03.08`	`nomis`	`RST38h: compared to C compilers? They are. By a huge difference.`
`19:03.15`	`RST38h`	`If you mean that you can write slower code using C++, it is true, but why blame the compiler?`
`19:03.30`	`nomis`	`RST38h: I mean the actual act of compiling. Not the resulting binary.`
`19:03.46`	`RST38h`	`GCC works at the same speed for me`
`19:03.49`	`RST38h`	`C or C++`
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`19:05.38`	`nomis`	`RST38h: mhm. Whenever I have to compile (even small) C++ programs it feels like ages. Ok, granted, I usually run my Laptop at 600MHz, but pure C programs are compiled in a snap.`
`19:06.01`	`RST38h`	`Are you using templates?`
`19:06.17`	`elb`	`g++ is absolutely slower than C++, with or without templates`
`19:06.41`	`RST38h`	`trantor: {976} C++`
`19:06.42`	`RST38h`	`C++: Command not found.`
`19:06.48`	`RST38h`	`What is "C++" ?`
`19:06.56`	`elb`	`err, g++ is absolutely slower than gcc`
`19:06.57`	`elb`	`typo`
`19:07.08`	`RST38h`	`Both will compile C++ code though`
`19:07.11`	`nomis`	`RST38h: well, not intentionally, but it is hard to avoid with the standard libraries.`
`19:07.20`	`RST38h`	`nomis: So you are using STL?`
`19:07.43`	`nomis`	`RST38h: I guess that most of the programs I compile do use STL, yes.`
`19:07.45`	`elb`	`a C "hello world" takes about 1.5x as long to compile in g++ as gcc, with hot caches`
`19:07.55`	`RST38h`	`nomis: Here is the answer to your question then`
`19:08.25`	`RST38h`	`nomis: Do not use STL. And your C++ compiler will run like a cheeta`
`19:08.35`	`nomis`	`RST38h: that is not the only problem.`
`19:08.48`	`RST38h`	`nomis: Believe me, that IS the only problem ;)`
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`19:08.58`	`elb`	`did you not read what I just wrote?`
`19:09.11`	`elb`	`hello world takes 1.5x as long with C++, and it's a trivial example`
`19:09.14`	`nomis`	`RST38h: as I said earlier: C++ is not context free, that means the compiler has to try a lot of different approaches for some statements to compile them properly.`
`19:09.34`	`RST38h`	`elb: takes same time for me`
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`19:09.46`	`elb`	`RST38h: then you're not using the same g++ I am`
`19:09.52`	`RST38h`	`nomis: could ou give an example`
`19:09.59`	`elb`	`(4.1.3)`
`19:10.02`	`RST38h`	`elb: maybe`
`19:10.26`	`elb`	`using <iostream> and std::cout instead of <stdio.h> and printf takes the c++ example to four times slower`
`19:10.31`	`nomis`	`RST38h: a line like "AA BB(CC);" is impossible to parse without knowing what AA, BB and CC actually are`
`19:10.32`	`RST38h`	`3.4.2 here`
`19:10.37`	`elb`	`it's a more complicated language, there's no getting around that`
`19:10.48`	`elb`	`and to claim that doesn't affect the compiler is disingenuous`
`19:11.09`	`RST38h`	`elb: do not use iostream and srtd:out`
`19:11.26`	`nomis`	`RST38h: (is it an function prototype or a object instanciation?)`
`19:11.28`	`elb`	`yes, polymorphism slows the compiler down a lot`
`19:11.48`	`nomis`	`that is not even a problem with polymorphy. It is a problem of a bad grammar.`
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`19:12.15`	`elb`	`yeah, I misparsed your statement`
`19:12.19`	`elb`	`but polymorphism also does so :-)`
`19:12.31`	`elb`	`because there may be more than one applicable function to a given context, and one of them is "more correct" than another`
`19:12.43`	`elb`	`(due to, e.g., possible implicit casts)`
`19:12.50`	`nomis`	`true.`
`19:12.52`	`elb`	`or simply finding the possible casts, for that matter`
`19:13.37`	`elb`	`so ... I guess if you don't know how C++ works, and you don't time an actual C++ compiler, you can claim it compiles just as fast ;-)`
`19:14.41`	`RST38h`	`nomis: and how does this slow things down?`
`19:16.28`	`nomis`	`RST38h: the compiler has to look up AA, BB and CC among lots of different language elements (Types, currently defined variables/objects etc.)`
`19:16.35`	`RST38h`	`elb: Close but not exactly like that`
`19:16.50`	`nomis`	`RST38h: A C compiler can look up CC in the types database and if it is not in there --> Bang! it gives an error.`
`19:16.58`	`RST38h`	`elb: I am aware of how C++ works, so I use only those features of C++ that I really need and that do not slow me down`
`19:17.10`	`RST38h`	`nomis: But C++ compiler also makes a database like that`
`19:17.16`	`RST38h`	`It makes a tree basically`
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`19:17.33`	`nomis`	`RST38h: A C++ compier might look in the type database, not find it there, then look it up among the currently defined variables.`
`19:17.45`	`elb`	`RST38h: oh, so I assume you never use polymorphism, virtual functions, or inheritance?`
`19:17.51`	`flo_lap`	`re`
`19:17.51`	`elb`	`because all three of those slow the compiler down`
`19:18.02`	`RST38h`	`It should always be in the type database, just in several different places in a tree`
`19:18.04`	`nomis`	`it has to do some more operations until it finally can figure out if that statement is correct or not.`
`19:18.12`	`RST38h`	`elb: I use these every now and then`
`19:18.14`	`nomis`	`RST38h: no!`
`19:18.15`	`RST38h`	`elb: But sparingly`
`19:18.28`	`RST38h`	`it does have to do a few more operations but not by much`
`19:18.30`	`nomis`	`RST38h: it might be an defined object, which would make it a constructor invocation.`
`19:18.42`	`elb`	`I just use C, and C++ doesn't slow me down at all ;-)`
`19:19.07`	`elb`	`if I want objects, I jump to something at a higher level`
`19:19.19`	`elb`	`(typically ruby)`
`19:19.30`	`elb`	`although it has its own unfortunate interactions`
`19:20.14`	`RST38h`	`nomis: So, it will check another tree, and?`
`19:20.37`	`nomis`	`RST38h: the compiler has to try different approaches of compiling said statement before it can determine if a statement is correct or not. That slows it down drastically. It might even have to try the other approaches if it found a valid one.`
`19:21.02`	`RST38h`	`nomis: Do you know how expensive is looking up an item in a tree?`
`19:21.06`	`RST38h`	`How about a hash?`
`19:21.35`	`nomis`	`RST38h: I know that two lookups in two trees are twice as expensive as one lookup in one tree.`
`19:22.00`	`RST38h`	`And one disk access is 100 times as expensive :)`
`19:22.11`	`elb`	`in fact, in some cases it has to look up every possible interpretation`
`19:22.19`	`elb`	`because what is a conflict in one context may be legal in another`
`19:22.52`	`elb`	`and yes, that's an excellent point -- C++ does make far more disk accesses`
`19:23.03`	`nomis`	`RST38h: please read up a bit about why everything more complicated than a LALR(1) grammar is basically insanely hard to parse. Context sensitive Grammars are way more complicated than LALR.`
`19:23.07`	`elb`	`as its base set of definitions and standard components is rather larger`
`19:23.32`	`RST38h`	`"rather larger" is how much?`
`19:23.48`	`nomis`	`RST38h: by "context sensitive" I don't mean some vague feeling, I mean hard CS concepts.`
`19:24.45`	`elb`	`to be fair, C isn't LALR(1) either`
`19:25.14`	`RST38h`	`As far as I know, both are LALR(1)`
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`19:25.25`	`RST38h`	`let me verify`
`19:25.27`	`nomis`	`elb: eh, why?`
`19:25.33`	`elb`	`I don't remember`
`19:25.37`	`nomis`	`elb: because of the preprocessor?`
`19:26.06`	`elb`	`but we definitely went over this in one of my undergrad courses oh-so-long-ago`
`19:26.21`	`RST38h`	`Google says C++ is LALR(1)`
`19:26.49`	`elb`	`a LALR(1) parser can read C++ syntax at some level, but it may not be compilable without farther checks`
`19:27.01`	`elb`	`because syntax and semantics get confused`
`19:27.15`	`elb`	`the very example nomis gave above is not LALR(1) in just three tokens`
`19:27.19`	`RST38h`	`ok, I'll buy that`
`19:27.56`	`RST38h`	`I won't buy "c++ compiler slower than c" part though`
`19:28.02`	`nomis`	`RST38h: take the example above: you have to know (it is not immediately obvious from the grammar) if CC is a type or an object before you're able to parse the statement (into two totally different things)`
`19:28.17`	`RST38h`	`Don't you goddamn STL and those bloody iostreams that are only good for textbook examples`
`19:28.36`	`RST38h`	`Use printf() as all normal people do, and implement your own data structures.`
`19:29.00`	`elb`	`oh, and yes -- templates are completely not lalr(1)`
`19:29.13`	`RST38h`	`screw templates together with STL`
`19:29.13`	`elb`	`but we've already put those out of scope`
`19:29.19`	`nomis`	`elb: well, yeah. But we seem to agree anyway that templates are bad :)`
`19:29.40`	`elb`	`templates as decorations are interesting`
`19:29.45`	`elb`	`but ... not worth using C++ :-)`
`19:29.59`	`RST38h`	`C++ gives you data and function encapsulation`
`19:30.09`	`RST38h`	`that is what it is worth using for`
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`19:30.53`	`nomis`	`RST38h: weeell, we now could start arguing if this is not just syntactic sugar and if the method as used by glib enables you to do this as well.`
`19:30.55`	`RST38h`	`the rest (templates, exceptions, RTTI, STL, other shit) isn't of much use`
`19:31.12`	`RST38h`	`nomis: You know better than me that the method used by glib is an abomination`
`19:31.36`	`RST38h`	`Yes, it works. No, it is not pretty and damn hard to maintain`
`19:31.37`	`nomis`	`RST38h: I disagree.`
`19:32.02`	`nomis`	`RST38h: it is not pretty, true, but it gives you tools that C++ does not give you.`
`19:32.20`	`RST38h`	`no type checking whatsoever`
`19:32.29`	`nomis`	`RST38h: huh?`
`19:32.41`	`RST38h`	`not clear what to do with pointers you are getting as results`
`19:32.55`	`RST38h`	`do you free() them? do you g_free() them? do you unreference-count them?`
`19:33.00`	`nomis`	`RST38h: all the Type-Casting macros do type checking if you don't optimize it away.`
`19:33.06`	`RST38h`	`do you g_free_xxx_object() them?`
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`19:33.17`	`RST38h`	`I am probably optimizing them away`
`19:33.31`	`RST38h`	`Otherwise it would run slow, wouldn't it? :)`
`19:33.41`	`nomis`	`RST38h: the key is to read the stuff that glib spits out at runtime and take the warnings seriously.`
`19:33.56`	`RST38h`	`nomis: thanks, but I will take comile-time checks.`
`19:34.04`	`RST38h`	`c++ has them`
`19:34.18`	`nomis`	`RST38h: C++ has no dynamic type system though.`
`19:34.29`	`nomis`	`Which sucks badly sometimes.`
`19:34.29`	`Mikho`	`what's wrong with STL?`
`19:35.17`	`nomis`	`has to run, sorry.`
`19:35.43`	`RST38h`	`Mikho: slow to compile, difficult to debug, full of cruft`
`19:35.55`	`RST38h`	`And you need a BOOK to use it`
`19:36.16`	`RST38h`	`Wherever you need a book to use something, it is probably not worth using`
`19:36.27`	`Mikho`	`Actually I wish I had a book`
`19:37.09`	`Mikho`	`The reason I'm using it, is because I don't want to program every container type myself`
`19:37.18`	`Mikho`	`are there really any good alternatives?`
`19:38.50`	`elb`	`better languages ;-)`
`19:39.05`	`elb`	`passes out the free Objective C`
`19:39.18`	`flo_lap`	`re`
`19:39.23`	`flo_lap`	`hehe`
`19:40.03`	`Mikho`	`better languages with C compability?`
`19:40.24`	`flo_lap`	`Mikho: C ;)`
`19:40.37`	`Navi`	`Lol`
`19:40.41`	`Mikho`	`?`
`19:43.22`	`pupnik_`	`is there OpenStep for the tablets? :P`
`19:43.27`	`flo_lap`	`In fact with the right tools C is quite nice - of course there are better languages, but this does not include C++`
`19:43.35`	`flo_lap`	`pupnik_: yes`
`19:44.03`	`Mikho`	`I don't like the type casting macros either`
`19:44.29`	`pupnik_`	`you kidding flo_lap? url?`
`19:44.31`	`Mikho`	`Type-checking runtime is not as good as type-checking compile-time`
`19:47.54`	`flo_lap`	`pupnik_: well... almost: http://www.quantum-step.com/wiki.php?page=Maemo-Edition&referer=About`
`19:48.36`	`RST38h`	`Mikho: What is wrong with programming your own data structures?`
`19:48.44`	`RST38h`	`Only takes a few minutes after a while`
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`20:41.57`	`jott`	`lol @ anonymous changes to the maemo wikipedia page`
`20:42.19`	`GeneralAntilles`	`This cracked me up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:TE`
`20:44.08`	`*** join/#maemo kupesoft (n=dave@unaffiliated/kupesoft)`
`20:48.56`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Hahaha http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maemo#Possible_use_of_ITOS_in_phones`
`20:49.01`	`GeneralAntilles`	`That's beautiful`
`20:49.19`	`GeneralAntilles`	`maemo now has blood on its hands.`
`20:50.10`	`pupnik`	`GeneralAntilles: do you know if it's possible for a wlan driver to alert (via sound or something) when it gets DEAUTH'd?`
`20:50.12`	`jott`	`hehe yeah. have you seen the guerillia changes to the security section? ;)`
`20:50.30`	`KotCzarny`	`pupnik: dbus ?`
`20:50.40`	`KotCzarny`	`i mean listen for dbus message?`
`20:50.45`	`pupnik`	`ah`
`20:51.02`	`jott`	`ah already reverted`
`20:51.14`	`pupnik`	`i don't have time to try. But seems like in general, it'd be a useful thing for linuxy wlan drivers/clients to do.`
`20:51.24`	`KotCzarny`	`could be annoying`
`20:51.25`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`20:52.01`	`Cptnodegard`	`anyone know wtf is the difference between rss feed and rss channel?`
`20:52.29`	`KotCzarny`	`there can be multiple feed of one in other?`
`20:52.38`	`KotCzarny`	`or other way round`
`20:52.39`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`20:53.32`	`Cptnodegard`	`uuuh`
`20:53.39`	`Cptnodegard`	`seems like what i was after then`
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`20:55.36`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Haha, jott, that's awesome.`
`20:55.40`	`GeneralAntilles`	`"e.g. by installing a keylogger to steal email and pornography passwords."`
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`20:56.08`	`GeneralAntilles`	`"meaning that a hostile application could easily seize ultimate climate control over a machine where this password has not been changed and start killing virtual kittens."`
`20:56.19`	`KotCzarny`	`climate control?`
`20:56.28`	`GeneralAntilles`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Maemo&oldid=207689252`
`20:56.37`	`KotCzarny`	`trollish`
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`21:02.38`	`jott`	`KotCzarny: actually read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Maemo&diff=207689252&oldid=207687931 :)`
`21:02.48`	`KotCzarny`	`i don't know if i want..`
`21:02.51`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`21:02.55`	`pupnik`	`yuv420. heh heh heh.`
`21:03.12`	`jott`	`(and yes it's a trollish parody of a trollish original section :)`
`21:03.18`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`21:05.16`	`RST38h`	`Oh, the meanwhile guy continues on his crusade?`
`21:05.30`	`GeneralAntilles`	`It's becoming quite the spectacle.`
`21:08.02`	`RST38h`	`The key is, as always, making him kill himself`
`21:08.32`	`*** join/#maemo acydlord (n=acydlord@ip68-98-117-41.ph.ph.cox.net)`
`21:08.33`	`RST38h`	`Preferably while being online, although I understand we can't hope for a live video feed of the event`
`21:09.11`	`acydlord`	`man, i was all excited cause i got mitter running well on the n810, till i closed it`
`21:10.38`	`*** join/#maemo Jsn0327 (n=User@12-203-96-31.client.mchsi.com)`
`21:11.04`	`Jsn0327`	`does anyone know of a command within terminal to display the properties of a device/directory? like the size of it`
`21:11.22`	`KotCzarny`	`df`
`21:12.07`	`Jsn0327`	`thanks`
`21:15.53`	`Jsn0327`	`do you know what the terminal command is to change directories back one level?`
`21:16.06`	`GeneralAntilles`	`cd ..l`
`21:16.09`	`GeneralAntilles`	`cd ../`
`21:16.17`	`KotCzarny`	`cd ..`
`21:17.13`	`Jsn0327`	`thanks i didn't know that you had to put the spaces`
`21:17.22`	`KotCzarny`	`it's not winDOS`
`21:17.42`	`*** join/#maemo christefano (n=christef@adsl-69-230-175-116.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net)`
`21:17.43`	`KotCzarny`	`but you can always set up an alias`
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`21:27.30`	`term-sig`	`argh!`
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`21:43.07`	`Jsn0327`	`i can not get a partition on my mmc to mount. is this because i set a boot flag to the partition?`
`21:43.43`	`qwerty12_N800`	`Over USB?`
`21:44.04`	`*** join/#maemo Dylan_ (n=chatzill@d141-39-188.home.cgocable.net)`
`21:44.27`	`Dylan_`	`Hello, is there anybody here who could help me out?`
`21:44.31`	`Jsn0327`	`what do you mean over usb?`
`21:44.56`	`Dylan_`	`I am trying to install a .tgz file on my N770.`
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`21:45.08`	`Jsn0327`	`i'm trying to mount it using mount /dev/mmc2blk0p2 /opt and it says mounting failed`
`21:45.37`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Dylan_, extracting it to /usr/local/bin is the way to go.`
`21:45.47`	`qwerty12_N800`	`Jsn0327: Ah, excuse me then.`
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`21:46.08`	`KotCzarny`	`jsn: do dmesg\|tail -n 30`
`21:46.14`	`Dylan_`	`Exactly how do I do that? :p`
`21:46.15`	`KotCzarny`	`it may tell you what's wrong`
`21:46.23`	`qwerty12_N800`	`But have you inserted modules for filesystem etc?`
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`21:47.38`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Dylan_, get the .tgz to /usr/local/bin`
`21:47.43`	`GeneralAntilles`	`(you may have to create it)`
`21:47.53`	`GeneralAntilles`	`and expand it with tar`
`21:48.01`	`KotCzarny`	`ga, your advice may be wrong`
`21:48.03`	`Jsn0327`	`KotCzarny: that output doesn't say anything about the mmc except "setting voltage 'vmmc' to 300 mV`
`21:48.08`	`KotCzarny`	`you don't know that's in that .tgz file`
`21:48.17`	`Dylan_`	`It is.`
`21:48.19`	`KotCzarny`	`jasn: try to mount, then do the dmesg`
`21:49.03`	`Jsn0327`	`i just did that. it says EAC mode: play disabled, rec disabled like 10 times`
`21:49.07`	`Dylan_`	`Thank you for the help, GeneralAntilles.`
`21:50.04`	`KotCzarny`	`jsn: pasting error message may be helpful`
`21:50.12`	`KotCzarny`	`(from the mount)`
`21:50.22`	`*** join/#maemo dougt (n=dougt@c-67-180-89-151.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`21:50.33`	`Jsn0327`	`i know that the partition is good, when i connect it to my ubuntu desktop via the usb cable it brings up both of the partitions on the mmc`
`21:50.52`	`qwerty12_N800`	`Jsn0327: Also post the result of lsmod if you can too.`
`21:51.00`	`KotCzarny`	`you can't have partition mounted in both places at one time`
`21:51.04`	`Jsn0327`	`mount: mounting /dev/mmcblk0p2 on /opt failed`
`21:51.12`	`Dylan_`	`Out of curiousity, has any one tried installing other OS's on the N770?`
`21:51.17`	`KotCzarny`	`well, oyu can, but your data will be deadbits then`
`21:51.23`	`Mousey`	`so`
`21:51.30`	`Mousey`	`i figured out why it keeps rebooting`
`21:51.43`	`KotCzarny`	`jsn: nothing else?`
`21:51.44`	`Mousey`	`don't ln -s all of /var/cache to /media/mmc2/*/var/cache`
`21:51.53`	`Mousey`	`hal will get mad at you`
`21:52.02`	`Mousey`	`and not open the pod bay doors anymore`
`21:52.08`	`KotCzarny`	`mousey: life, you can ln, but you have to mount it early`
`21:52.10`	`KotCzarny`	`very early`
`21:52.23`	`Mousey`	`or`
`21:52.24`	`lcuk`	`hmm`
`21:52.28`	`Jsn0327`	`no thats all from the mount. i'm trying to open up irc on the tablet to past the lsmod`
`21:52.35`	`Mousey`	`i can just remain ignorant ^_^`
`21:52.42`	`lcuk`	`any idea how to replace SDL_GetTicks with a standard system function?`
`21:52.51`	`KotCzarny`	`lcuk: what does it do?`
`21:52.56`	`lcuk`	`it gets the ticks..`
`21:53.02`	`KotCzarny`	`like time() ?`
`21:53.03`	`lcuk`	`incrimenting timer`
`21:53.03`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`21:53.08`	`lcuk`	`MS resolution`
`21:53.13`	`*** join/#maemo Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun)`
`21:53.26`	`KotCzarny`	`i think there is a function to get higher res timers`
`21:53.43`	`*** join/#maemo ^Jsn^ (n=user@12-203-96-31.client.mchsi.com)`
`21:53.43`	`lcuk`	`yer i would think so as well, it appears to be the only thing still requiring sdl`
`21:54.05`	`lcuk`	`is up to his armpits in a code reorganization`
`21:54.06`	`KotCzarny`	`i think time() returns time_t strict`
`21:54.10`	`^Jsn^`	`this is the first time that i've gotten to try out the new bluetooth keyboard with irc. i like it`
`21:54.12`	`KotCzarny`	`which has us too`
`21:54.24`	`^Jsn^`	`here is my lsmod`
`21:54.30`	`KotCzarny`	`or was it another one`
`21:54.41`	`*** join/#maemo Pio (n=sean@207.181.14.102)`
`21:54.46`	`lcuk`	`time is to the second`
`21:54.55`	`^Jsn^`	`Module Size Used by`
`21:55.01`	`KotCzarny`	`jsn: pastebin.com`
`21:55.06`	`lcuk`	`not very good when i am trying to pull out fast things, ill look from there thx kot`
`21:55.18`	`KotCzarny`	`man utime`
`21:55.19`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`21:55.20`	`^Jsn^`	`ok`
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`21:55.24`	`KotCzarny`	`erm, sorry`
`21:55.32`	`KotCzarny`	`that's for files`
`21:56.25`	`jott`	`lcuk: man gettimeofday -> tv_usec`
`21:56.32`	`*** join/#maemo Andy80 (n=andy80@79.9.14.251)`
`21:56.42`	`KotCzarny`	`yeah, that's the name`
`21:57.16`	`KotCzarny`	`you can also set up a timer for you`
`21:57.16`	`Jsn0327`	`alright i just posted it under jason`
`21:57.31`	`KotCzarny`	`jsn: link`
`21:57.50`	`^Jsn^`	`http://pastebin.com/m4f00bb89`
`21:58.15`	`lcuk`	`thx jott`
`21:58.16`	`KotCzarny`	`what is filesystem on the partition you are mounting`
`21:58.27`	`qwerty12_N800`	`Insert correct modules.`
`21:58.36`	`Jsn0327`	`ext 2`
`21:59.05`	`Jsn0327`	`qwerty12: talkin to me?`
`21:59.33`	`qwerty12_N800`	`Jsn0327: Yes. For ext2, lts smething llike mbcache, jbd and ext2`
`22:00.17`	`qwerty12_N800`	`Insmod them from /mnt/initfs/llib/modules/2.6.21-o<something>`
`22:00.17`	`KotCzarny`	`qwerty: about your earlier question about modprobe, just symlink or copy modules to /lib/modules`
`22:00.18`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`22:00.42`	`KotCzarny`	`cp -a /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/* /lib/modules/`
`22:00.43`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`22:01.01`	`qwerty12_N800`	`KotCzarny: Thanks :), some things I got depend on modprobe`
`22:01.58`	`jott`	`qwerty12_N800: http://sse2.net/depmod <- you might also want to run this after you have the modules in /lib/modules/$(uname -r)`
`22:02.16`	`KotCzarny`	`jott: usually modprobe.dep file exists`
`22:02.28`	`KotCzarny`	`it's the matter of copying modules tree to the proper place`
`22:02.29`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`22:02.39`	`qwerty12_N800`	`jott: Many thanks`
`22:02.51`	`qwerty12_N800`	`KotCzarny: Not on my n800 :)`
`22:03.06`	`jott`	`KotCzarny: no modprobe.dep here and not for new modules either`
`22:03.08`	`KotCzarny`	`on mine it is`
`22:03.10`	`KotCzarny`	`i believe`
`22:03.12`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`22:03.22`	`KotCzarny`	`jott: but if you compile your own kjernel`
`22:03.28`	`KotCzarny`	`and issue make modules_install`
`22:03.37`	`KotCzarny`	`it will run depmod -a on your new moduels dir`
`22:03.47`	`KotCzarny`	`then if you copy that dir you will have it`
`22:04.12`	`jott`	`but depmod is missing :)`
`22:04.29`	`KotCzarny`	`but it's only needed when you copy single module file`
`22:04.42`	`KotCzarny`	`not the whole dir after make modules_install`
`22:04.43`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`22:04.45`	`*** part/#maemo andre__ (n=andre@f053153055.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`22:05.01`	`Jsn0327`	`that was it. thanks alot!`
`22:05.27`	`qwerty12_N800`	`Thanks both :). This will make things easier. I'm trying to get flashcam to run on my n8800. After messing in sbox, I got`
`22:05.37`	`KotCzarny`	`n880?`
`22:05.38`	`KotCzarny`	`o.o`
`22:05.43`	`*** join/#maemo renatofilho^ (n=renato@200.184.118.132)`
`22:05.45`	`qwerty12_N800`	`module and prog to build`
`22:06.02`	`qwerty12_N800`	`Lol, hildon kbd messing me around :p`
`22:06.12`	`KotCzarny`	`n8800 even`
`22:06.13`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`22:06.22`	`qwerty12_N800`	`Jsn0327: Great :)`
`22:06.35`	`qwerty12_N800`	`It has omap3 :p`
`22:06.47`	`KotCzarny`	`it has or it hasn't`
`22:06.57`	`KotCzarny`	`no one knows, yet`
`22:07.53`	`Jsn0327`	`does anyone know the terminal command to remove a directory and all contents inside?`
`22:08.01`	`KotCzarny`	`rm -rf`
`22:08.15`	`Jsn0327`	`thanks i tried rm but i didn't know about the flags`
`22:08.20`	`KotCzarny`	`heh`
`22:08.23`	`KotCzarny`	`read manuals`
`22:08.28`	`qwerty12_N800`	`I once did that with / >.<`
`22:08.31`	`KotCzarny`	`if you don't have a linux system`
`22:08.36`	`KotCzarny`	`jut google for: man rm`
`22:09.15`	`Jsn0327`	`believe me i do read the manuals. i'm just trying to do this quickly. i don't have time to go threw manuals for one command`
`22:09.36`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`22:09.36`	`*** join/#maemo andre___ (n=andre@f053153055.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`22:09.45`	`KotCzarny`	`but you will be using it often`
`22:09.49`	`KotCzarny`	`so it's good to know`
`22:11.20`	`qwerty12_N800`	`I should build man for myself and move docpurge script. I have quite a bit to learn tbh with myself.`
`22:11.28`	`*** join/#maemo NullM0dem (n=brian@215-150-139-71-rev.omegacomminc.com)`
`22:11.28`	`KotCzarny`	`nah.`
`22:11.35`	`KotCzarny`	`just do man in sbox`
`22:11.39`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`22:15.24`	`qwerty12_N800`	`I'm not always near my comp though :). I wish Linux could have more sense though. I was trying to run a program and I set it executable and place it in bin and it says it isn't found. Of course, a day later I realise It's a script and was trying to call bash which I didn't have at the time. If it said bash not found, I'd have understood a lot faster.`
`22:15.44`	`chrisak`	`I posted in ITT but will try here; cannot edit my google group - cannot select text area. Last comment on this is back in 12/2007 re: google spreadsheet. Has there been a solution found?`
`22:16.15`	`KotCzarny`	`qwerty: it's not linux but default shell i guess`
`22:17.04`	`qwerty12_N800`	`KotCzarny: True. I guess I am in wrong habit of classifying everything as linux :/`
`22:17.38`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`22:18.00`	`KotCzarny`	`i think busybox can be compiled for m$ windows too`
`22:18.05`	`*** join/#maemo milhouse (n=irc_milh@dsl-217-155-26-150.zen.co.uk)`
`22:18.30`	`NullM0dem`	`cygwin?`
`22:19.15`	`KotCzarny`	`for example`
`22:19.35`	`qwerty12_N800`	`KotCzarny: Probably go well together :p..Cut down things...`
`22:19.35`	`qwerty12_N800`	`But since`
`22:19.35`	`qwerty12_N800`	`eek hildon kbd :(`
`22:20.36`	`qwerty12_N800`	`But since I got N800 and realised I work well with linux, I haven't booted in windows for months except recently to try and flash dead p1i I have.`
`22:20.54`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`22:21.14`	`NullM0dem`	`im waiting on mine, anxiously`
`22:21.47`	`qwerty12_N800`	`NullM0dem: N8*0?`
`22:22.01`	`NullM0dem`	`n810, n800`
`22:22.16`	`*** part/#maemo chrisak (n=chrisak@199-187-165-209.mvl.nwc.static.gci.net)`
`22:22.18`	`NullM0dem`	`still tossing it, i mat get both... one for my brother`
`22:22.31`	`KotCzarny`	`don't forget to repartition sd drive on n810`
`22:22.39`	`KotCzarny`	`factory default is broken afair`
`22:23.14`	`*** join/#maemo henrique (n=henrique@unaffiliated/henrique)`
`22:23.25`	`NullM0dem`	`ill read into that, thanks!`
`22:23.52`	`*** join/#maemo andre___ (n=andre@f053153055.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`22:24.45`	`jott`	`hm the nokia tube will already be out this summer?!`
`22:25.10`	`qwerty12_N800`	`The S60 touch phone?`
`22:25.33`	`jott`	`yes.`
`22:25.51`	`Mousey`	`will it run maemo?`
`22:26.31`	`jott`	`no but it will probably have an omap3.`
`22:26.31`	`GeneralAntilles`	`No, Mousey.`
`22:26.31`	`KotCzarny`	`if it's s60 it will run symbian os`
`22:26.31`	`Mousey`	`oooh..`
`22:26.31`	`Mousey`	`stops caring ^_^`
`22:26.35`	`qwerty12_N800`	`Ah, I'm not keen on that. I think Nokia should have put standard s60 buttons as the range of apps available for s60 is amazing`
`22:26.53`	`qwerty12_N800`	`And`
`22:27.10`	`qwerty12_N800`	`no touchscreen means less, if any, compatibity`
`22:27.31`	`*** join/#maemo borism (n=boris@195-50-205-192-dsl.krw.estpak.ee)`
`22:27.43`	`qwerty12_N800`	`I mean no buttons`
`22:28.14`	`jott`	`so it's an indicator for the omap3 platform availability at nokia and i doubt a n900 will be out before an s60 device with omap3 is out.`
`22:30.06`	`Mousey`	`will rhapsody play realmedia video?`
`22:30.33`	`KotCzarny`	`real media is meh.`
`22:30.51`	`Mousey`	`maybe, but i have two episodes of Trigun i MUST WATCH`
`22:30.56`	`KotCzarny`	`transcode`
`22:30.57`	`Mousey`	`they're regrettably rm`
`22:31.05`	`Mousey`	`i'm missing drv2.so or some such`
`22:31.22`	`KotCzarny`	`on pc or nokia?`
`22:31.28`	`Mousey`	`debian`
`22:31.51`	`KotCzarny`	`grab the mplayer-codecs package`
`22:31.56`	`Mousey`	`it's in the w32codecs package, but not the w64codecs pack`
`22:32.09`	`KotCzarny`	`curse rm for binary drivers`
`22:32.09`	`Mousey`	`...or i just play them in rhapsody?`
`22:32.17`	`Mousey`	`=)`
`22:32.29`	`jott`	`can't helix play rms?`
`22:32.44`	`Mousey`	`apt-cache search's helix`
`22:34.24`	`qwerty12_N800`	`Does our Internet Tablets have the real binary codec?`
`22:37.36`	`Mousey`	`writes a gnarly script to remove all -dev and -dbg packages and free up all kindsa space on his /`
`22:38.04`	`Mousey`	`KNOWS you don't care, Mousey goes off to bother another #channel`
`22:38.17`	`qwerty12_N800`	`dev packages are quite useful`
`22:38.30`	`*** join/#maemo TimRiker (n=timr@rikers.org)`
`22:39.53`	`*** join/#maemo Tuco (n=Y@unaffiliated/tuco)`
`22:41.52`	`*** join/#maemo Deform (i=United-T@c-68-61-240-49.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)`
`22:45.33`	`tsukasa_`	`so`
`22:45.40`	`tsukasa_`	`i bought my n800 this morning`
`22:45.44`	`NullM0dem`	`:)`
`22:45.46`	`NullM0dem`	`how is it`
`22:45.47`	`tsukasa_`	`$150 online`
`22:45.50`	`Mousey`	`wow`
`22:45.51`	`tsukasa_`	`not here yet =P`
`22:45.56`	`KotCzarny`	`with s&h ?`
`22:45.59`	`KotCzarny`	`and tax?`
`22:46.08`	`tsukasa_`	`nah $9 fedex standard shipping`
`22:46.09`	`tsukasa_`	`no tax`
`22:46.14`	`NullM0dem`	`where did you pick it up?`
`22:46.14`	`tsukasa_`	`so $159 total`
`22:46.15`	`KotCzarny`	`not a bad deal`
`22:46.25`	`tsukasa_`	`overstockdealz.com`
`22:46.35`	`tsukasa_`	`its $175 listed then i offered them 150`
`22:46.50`	`tsukasa_`	`and was like ebay its selling for 140 but id rather buy on this site`
`22:46.51`	`KotCzarny`	`lol`
`22:46.57`	`tsukasa_`	`a mixutre of bluffing and kissup`
`22:46.59`	`tsukasa_`	`it worked`
`22:47.11`	`KotCzarny`	`is ebay selling them for 140?`
`22:47.12`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`22:47.15`	`tsukasa_`	`no =)`
`22:47.32`	`KotCzarny`	`i wonder if they find out`
`22:47.33`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`22:47.39`	`KotCzarny`	`or if you get your device`
`22:47.40`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
`22:47.52`	`tsukasa_`	`shipping out of tenessee tomorrow at 8am`
`22:48.07`	`KotCzarny`	`you will get finely packaged brick`
`22:48.08`	`KotCzarny`	`:>`
`22:48.10`	`tsukasa_`	`what kindof cards should i get`
`22:48.23`	`tsukasa_`	`4gb micro sdhc`
`22:48.29`	`Mousey`	`toshiba 32GB SDHC!!`
`22:48.32`	`Mousey`	`two of them!!`
`22:48.33`	`KotCzarny`	`n800 uses standard sized sd`
`22:48.34`	`Mousey`	`^_^`
`22:48.40`	`tsukasa_`	`:<`
`22:48.44`	`tsukasa_`	`so 2gb is max per slot?`
`22:48.45`	`KotCzarny`	`why ':<'`
`22:48.47`	`KotCzarny`	`it's good`
`22:48.50`	`tsukasa_`	`oh`
`22:48.54`	`Mousey`	`tsavola: 32gb!`
`22:48.55`	`KotCzarny`	`sd == sd and sdhc`
`22:49.07`	`tsukasa_`	`i thought you meant non hc lol`
`22:49.08`	`NullM0dem`	`the 800 takles 32gb?`
`22:49.08`	`tsukasa_`	`okay`
`22:49.17`	`Mousey`	`NullM0dem: well i know it does 16gb`
`22:49.20`	`trollasaurus`	`My N810 should be in this week :-)`
`22:49.21`	`Mousey`	`so i hope it does 32`
`22:49.21`	`GeneralAntilles`	`NullM0dem, the hardware is limited to 2048GB`
`22:49.23`	`Mousey`	`that's when i get mine`
`22:49.37`	`Mousey`	`GeneralAntilles: that's a lot of GBs`
`22:49.37`	`NullM0dem`	`:)`
`22:49.52`	`NullM0dem`	`Ive read the n810 takes less than the n800 has this changed?`
`22:49.57`	`tsukasa_`	`hey.... could you raid0 the cards? o_0`
`22:50.05`	`Mousey`	`NullM0dem: the n810 [which i have currently] only takes 1 miniSD`
`22:50.06`	`NullM0dem`	`that would be odd :-P`
`22:50.10`	`qwerty12_N800`	`Or plug in an hard drive :p`
`22:50.17`	`Mousey`	`tsukasa_: unionfs`
`22:50.32`	`Mousey`	`tsukasa_: my idea was LVM, but unionfs is probably a better solution`
`22:50.36`	`KotCzarny`	`nah`
`22:50.38`	`KotCzarny`	`too much fuss`
`22:50.46`	`KotCzarny`	`and 4gb is more than enough`
`22:50.49`	`Mousey`	`HA!`
`22:50.52`	`tsukasa_`	`well its still interesting from a technical standpoint`
`22:50.55`	`tsukasa_`	`no its not rofl`
`22:51.02`	`Mousey`	`clearly your anime/music collection is quite small`
`22:51.09`	`tsukasa_`	`<PROTECTED>`
`22:51.15`	`KotCzarny`	`ever heard about network drive?`
`22:51.16`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`22:51.22`	`Mousey`	`my n800 will be my external USB storage for my n810`
`22:51.28`	`NullM0dem`	`Housey: do you have a 16gb card in your n810 ?`
`22:51.31`	`NullM0dem`	`lol`
`22:51.33`	`KotCzarny`	`why usb`
`22:51.36`	`KotCzarny`	`sshfs is better`
`22:51.36`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`22:51.42`	`NullM0dem`	`scp`
`22:51.43`	`Mousey`	`KotCzarny: but USB is faster =)`
`22:51.48`	`KotCzarny`	`mousey: prove it`
`22:51.49`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`22:51.51`	`Mousey`	`uh`
`22:51.57`	`Mousey`	`ok, lemme borrow your n800`
`22:51.58`	`Mousey`	`;)`
`22:52.12`	`KotCzarny`	`ok, but i won't let you see my data`
`22:52.13`	`qwerty12_N800`	`Muhahahaz`
`22:52.13`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`22:52.22`	`Mousey`	`fine, i just want it for the slots anyway`
`22:52.27`	`KotCzarny`	`perv.`
`22:52.30`	`Mousey`	`^________^`
`22:52.39`	`KotCzarny`	`it has a soul too, you know?`
`22:52.53`	`tsukasa_`	`so you can use it as a usb drive? what connector?`
`22:52.56`	`Mousey`	`it wouldn't be any fun to corrupt without a soul`
`22:53.03`	`tsukasa_`	`its not usb <-> usb is it`
`22:53.04`	`Mousey`	`tsukasa_: microUSB to mini`
`22:53.05`	`KotCzarny`	`tsukasa: miniusb afair`
`22:53.10`	`tsukasa_`	`oh`
`22:53.15`	`*** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com)`
`22:53.16`	`NullM0dem`	`im buying a ts-7800 to build as a cusotm fileserver / media player, in wish i wish to interface form the nokia.`
`22:53.30`	`NullM0dem`	`the ts-7800 is an arm based embedded board`
`22:53.36`	`Mousey`	`i have the microUSB host cable, so all i need is the n800 to mount the fs's on my n810`
`22:53.37`	`KotCzarny`	`nullm0dem: does it have sshd ?`
`22:53.38`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`22:53.43`	`NullM0dem`	`yit runs debain`
`22:53.49`	`NullM0dem`	`yit has whatever i want it too :P`
`22:53.51`	`KotCzarny`	`then sshfs`
`22:53.55`	`KotCzarny`	`or anything`
`22:53.55`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`22:53.59`	`Mousey`	`aaaaaaaaaaanything`
`22:54.02`	`Mousey`	`except LVM`
`22:54.18`	`KotCzarny`	`darn. my head hurts`
`22:54.20`	`Mousey`	`^_^`
`22:54.21`	`KotCzarny`	`i hate summer`
`22:54.52`	`NullM0dem`	`heres the link if interested http://www.embeddedarm.com/products/board-detail.php?product=TS-7800`
`22:55.00`	`NullM0dem`	`the site is hosted on the board as well`
`22:55.12`	`qwerty12_N800`	`ddos?`
`22:55.12`	`tsukasa_`	`Cons: will only see 14.9 gb, tried LL format made no difference..oh well its still 14.9 gbs`
`22:55.16`	`qwerty12_N800`	`anyone?`
`22:55.20`	`tsukasa_`	`god i hate newegg reviews`
`22:55.23`	`tsukasa_`	`people are so stupid`
`22:55.35`	`Mousey`	`wow pc104`
`22:55.38`	`NullM0dem`	`yep`
`22:55.44`	`tsukasa_`	`that goes hand in hand with laptops... Cons: has vista`
`22:55.53`	`tsukasa_`	`sigh`
`22:56.02`	`Mousey`	`cons: has windows`
`22:56.20`	`KotCzarny`	`cons: isn't free`
`22:56.32`	`Mousey`	`cons: has antivirus software!`
`22:56.45`	`KotCzarny`	`cons: doesn't do what i want it to do without me telling it to do it`
`22:57.05`	`Mousey`	`cons: steals your money and spies on your parents`
`22:57.14`	`KotCzarny`	`cons: doesn't walk the dog`
`22:57.36`	`Mousey`	`cons: steals your girlfriend`
`22:57.47`	`KotCzarny`	`that's useful sometimes`
`22:58.08`	`Mousey`	`good point`
`22:58.40`	`tsukasa_`	`wow`
`22:58.46`	`tsukasa_`	`why is 10 gigabit so expensive`
`22:58.52`	`tsukasa_`	`$35000`
`22:58.52`	`KotCzarny`	`because.`
`22:58.54`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`22:59.08`	`KotCzarny`	`just remember what was the price for 10mbit 10 years ago`
`22:59.11`	`tsukasa_`	`is it normally that high for new ethernet standards?`
`22:59.27`	`tsukasa_`	`lol idremember`
`23:00.58`	`tsukasa_`	`i wonder why they arent more worried about the rest of the bottlenecks out there`
`23:01.50`	`Mousey`	`i remember when 1Gb was expensive. now it comes free with your happy meal`
`23:02.18`	`NullM0dem`	`i remember when 20 megs was expensive`
`23:02.20`	`KotCzarny`	`but now happy meal is expensive`
`23:02.25`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
`23:04.20`	`KotCzarny`	`Un-brickable design ensures 100% recoverability from SD card in case of onboard flash erasure.`
`23:04.21`	`KotCzarny`	`nice`
`23:04.24`	`NullM0dem`	`yes`
`23:04.30`	`KotCzarny`	`nokia should include feature like this`
`23:05.05`	`NullM0dem`	`I couldant decide if i wanted the n8*0 or that board first, Should be alot of fun to play with`
`23:05.14`	`KotCzarny`	`uhum`
`23:05.27`	`KotCzarny`	`just decide based on what features you need more`
`23:05.34`	`KotCzarny`	`portable tablet or home server`
`23:05.35`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`23:05.53`	`KotCzarny`	`home server can be done on free p3 box :)`
`23:06.03`	`NullM0dem`	`well they will be symbiotic to each other`
`23:06.21`	`NullM0dem`	`true`
`23:06.34`	`NullM0dem`	`but this is lowpowerd with ARM ;-)`
`23:07.26`	`KotCzarny`	`otoh nokia's prices are falling all the time`
`23:09.36`	`KotCzarny`	`hmm`
`23:09.41`	`KotCzarny`	`i could use third screen`
`23:09.56`	`KotCzarny`	`irc/epsxe/web/txt`
`23:10.09`	`*** join/#maemo corq-FL (n=MI5@197.138.204.68.cfl.res.rr.com)`
`23:13.10`	`NullM0dem`	`wow, i just read the n8*0's swap to flash.. Is that default?`
`23:14.04`	`NullM0dem`	`I would think swap would be turned off`
`23:16.10`	`KotCzarny`	`?`
`23:16.15`	`KotCzarny`	`nope`
`23:16.20`	`KotCzarny`	`it's not enabled by default`
`23:16.25`	`KotCzarny`	`but useful sometimes`
`23:18.07`	`NullM0dem`	`ok thanks`
`23:18.45`	`NullM0dem`	`ive been reading pretty much every google hit i can find, some mis info out there`
`23:19.09`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`23:19.12`	`KotCzarny`	`yup`
`23:19.19`	`NullM0dem`	`i have not bought a handheld since the ipaq 39xx series`
`23:19.27`	`NullM0dem`	`felt ripped off`
`23:19.29`	`NullM0dem`	`:)`
`23:20.25`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`23:20.29`	`*** join/#maemo airtonarantes (n=airton@189.71.141.29)`
`23:20.40`	`Mousey`	`NullM0dem: i don't know how much of a linux0r you are, but my n810 is the best handheld i've ever even heard of`
`23:20.44`	`Mousey`	`much less owned`
`23:20.50`	`Mousey`	`i don't even carry a notebook anymore`
`23:21.02`	`Mousey`	`not that i'm a nokia fan or anything`
`23:21.05`	`NullM0dem`	`ive used linux since 2000 as my primary os`
`23:21.11`	`NullM0dem`	`mainly slack and debian`
`23:21.13`	`Mousey`	`nice`
`23:21.18`	`Mousey`	`well then you'll love the n810`
`23:21.48`	`NullM0dem`	`I switched to linux for the free programming tools, and the baility to read source:)`
`23:21.50`	`Mousey`	`i can't speak about the 800, i couldn't own a handheld without a keyboard. but i'm clearly not the majority`
`23:22.22`	`NullM0dem`	`i dont have patiencs for stylus typing`
`23:22.28`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Stylus typing is lame`
`23:22.33`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Fullscreen keyboard is the way to go.`
`23:22.47`	`NullM0dem`	`I type too much, I have been looking at the frogpads on think geek, anyone use these?`
`23:22.58`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Just get an iGo`
`23:23.03`	`GeneralAntilles`	`The frogpad is way too expensive.`
`23:23.08`	`NullM0dem`	`ill check it out`
`23:23.24`	`Mousey`	`fullscreen keyboards shorten touchscreen lives`
`23:23.26`	`Mousey`	`hardware keyboard!`
`23:23.45`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Pfft`
`23:23.56`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Hardware keyboards kill features.`
`23:23.57`	`Mousey`	`lies!`
`23:24.05`	`Mousey`	`hardware keyboard IS the feature! =P`
`23:24.06`	`NullM0dem`	`iGo is the brandname?`
`23:24.11`	`KotCzarny`	`yes`
`23:24.18`	`KotCzarny`	`google for 'igo slim'`
`23:24.24`	`KotCzarny`	`or 'igo ultra slim'`
`23:32.24`	`*** join/#maemo smackpotato (n=user@69.158.250.136)`
`23:36.05`	`*** join/#maemo MoRpHeUz (n=morphbr@189.70.58.68)`
`23:37.55`	`*** join/#maemo dolske_ (n=dolske@guest-226.mountainview.mozilla.com)`
`23:44.09`	`*** join/#maemo Lateralus (n=derek@gateway.linspire.com)`
`23:44.48`	`*** join/#maemo dolske (n=dolske@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com)`
`23:45.34`	`Lateralus`	`Is anyone else experiencing a problem with file handles remaining open in chinook? I have a piece of code writing a file, fopen(), fwrite(), fflush() and then fclose(), but afterwards trying to delete that file in the file manager it reports that "the file is in use"`
`23:52.01`	`jott`	`Lateralus: you could use "fuser filename" to check which pid still has the file open`
`23:52.27`	`jott`	`and also make sure to check the return value of the f*() functions`
`23:53.09`	`*** join/#maemo christefano (n=christef@adsl-69-230-175-116.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net)`
`23:53.12`	`Mousey`	`so relocating /usr/share/locale ... not so good idea`
`23:53.29`	`KotCzarny`	`mousey, just go 'boot from sd card' route`
`23:54.12`	`*** join/#maemo vcgomes (n=Vinicius@189.70.242.120)`
`23:54.21`	`Mousey`	`i know i know! i'm tryna stay ignorant as long as i can`
`23:54.22`	`Lateralus`	`jott: Actually, I'm not checking those values (blush). lsof reports that my process is the one with the file open, though`
`23:54.32`	`Mousey`	`it's a respectable course of action, i know`
`23:55.55`	`jott`	`Lateralus: ok so maybe something went wrong while using those funtions. just check the return values - it might help.`
`23:56.39`	`*** join/#maemo pupnik_ (n=pupnik@dslb-084-059-044-202.pools.arcor-ip.net)`

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