| 00:00.08 | fang64 | lol |
| 00:00.18 | fang64 | I had 2 pizzaboxes before that |
| 00:00.25 | fang64 | Sparc Station 10s |
| 00:00.26 | fang64 | lol |
| 00:00.41 | Curs0r | Sparcs are fun |
| 00:00.54 | fang64 | yes they are |
| 00:00.54 | fang64 | lol |
| 00:01.23 | Curs0r | I got to play with a mips system once. That was a cool little cpu |
| 00:01.45 | KotCzarny | wrt54g has mips |
| 00:01.49 | KotCzarny | (or mipsel) |
| 00:01.49 | fang64 | Kot the sidewinder I have is 210D |
| 00:01.54 | fang64 | Rackmount |
| 00:02.05 | fang64 | I'm missing quite a bit of it's software |
| 00:02.12 | fang64 | but it is a bit overkill |
| 00:02.13 | fang64 | lol |
| 00:02.22 | KotCzarny | yeah |
| 00:02.31 | KotCzarny | i'm quite happy with my openwrt box here |
| 00:02.35 | fang64 | I wish i had the other stuff to go with it like the modules |
| 00:02.47 | KotCzarny | stable and uptimes in months |
| 00:02.50 | lcuk | gnite all |
| 00:02.55 | KotCzarny | nite nite |
| 00:03.01 | Curs0r | Good night |
| 00:03.01 | fang64 | cya |
| 00:03.12 | fang64 | it runs on a Modified version of FreeBSD, called SecureOS |
| 00:03.16 | *** join/#maemo lopz (n=Gentoo-D@unaffiliated/lopz) |
| 00:03.16 | fang64 | you think it would be exploitable |
| 00:03.37 | fang64 | but lacking root makes things real hard |
| 00:03.45 | KotCzarny | :) |
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| 00:03.50 | KotCzarny | lacking tools too |
| 00:04.03 | fang64 | well it has rudimentary stuff |
| 00:04.05 | fang64 | nothing crazy |
| 00:04.08 | KotCzarny | it barely fits my epic/screen session |
| 00:04.24 | fang64 | lol |
| 00:04.36 | KotCzarny | (yes, i run epic/screen on my router) |
| 00:04.37 | KotCzarny | ;) |
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| 00:04.55 | fang64 | does openwrt run on Fon Routers? |
| 00:05.00 | fang64 | been thinking about messing with it |
| 00:05.00 | KotCzarny | hmm |
| 00:05.07 | fang64 | I got a Fon when they were free |
| 00:05.08 | KotCzarny | it should have a compatibility chart |
| 00:05.09 | KotCzarny | moment |
| 00:05.10 | fang64 | never fiddled with it |
| 00:05.14 | Curs0r | what is epic/screen? |
| 00:05.23 | KotCzarny | epic is a ircii fork |
| 00:05.31 | KotCzarny | enhanced programmable irc client |
| 00:05.46 | Curs0r | ic |
| 00:06.00 | KotCzarny | screen is just a screen util |
| 00:06.06 | Mousey | huggles screen |
| 00:06.08 | fang64 | lol |
| 00:06.16 | Mousey | but when i use it in maemo, i can't use backspace |
| 00:06.18 | KotCzarny | that let's you detach a running session and reatach later/from diff machine |
| 00:06.19 | KotCzarny | eetc |
| 00:06.27 | Mousey | and stty erase ctrl-v ctrl-h doesn't work |
| 00:06.33 | KotCzarny | fang: http://wiki.openwrt.org/TableOfHardware |
| 00:06.47 | KotCzarny | mousey: you can add your own keys to the osk |
| 00:06.54 | Mousey | osk? |
| 00:06.55 | KotCzarny | and remap keys with xmodmap too |
| 00:06.59 | fang64 | eh it does |
| 00:06.59 | KotCzarny | on screen keyboard |
| 00:07.04 | Mousey | has a hardware keyboard |
| 00:07.08 | Mousey | n810 |
| 00:07.08 | Mousey | but |
| 00:07.08 | fang64 | surprising |
| 00:07.10 | Mousey | that's not the point |
| 00:07.20 | Mousey | i can't hit backspace inside screen |
| 00:07.48 | jott | hands mousey a proper termcap |
| 00:07.53 | KotCzarny | :> |
| 00:07.57 | Mousey | jott: srsly |
| 00:08.01 | fang64 | might do that, since my fon hasn't been updated |
| 00:08.09 | Mousey | jott: if i could just set the proper TERM in screen [and have screen honor it] |
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| 00:08.44 | KotCzarny | mousey: export TERM=something ? |
| 00:08.56 | Mousey | yea, but it doesn't work? |
| 00:09.05 | KotCzarny | try another then |
| 00:09.07 | Mousey | by default screen uses "screen" as the term |
| 00:09.30 | jott | i've got TERM=screen-256color and backspace works fine with osso-xterm |
| 00:09.31 | Curs0r | isn't there a way to screen "screen" from screen? hehe |
| 00:09.51 | KotCzarny | curs0r: there is |
| 00:09.55 | Mousey | Curs0r: yes, screen -e^Ee -S session name |
| 00:10.09 | KotCzarny | but you should map their command combo key to diff. chars |
| 00:10.20 | Mousey | then you can use ctrl-a as the control key for the first dimention and ctrl-e as the control key for the embedded screen |
| 00:10.25 | Curs0r | I was attempting to be hoomorous |
| 00:10.38 | Mousey | Curs0r: good try ;) |
| 00:10.44 | KotCzarny | curs0r: why? it's quite convenient feature |
| 00:10.57 | KotCzarny | consider screen that has multiple sessions at once |
| 00:11.05 | KotCzarny | so you don't have to relogin everytime |
| 00:11.07 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 00:11.08 | Mousey | consider the sheer lack of memory in the device |
| 00:11.18 | KotCzarny | define lack of memory |
| 00:11.26 | Curs0r | I forget.... |
| 00:11.27 | jott | Mousey: but really try to check if your terminfo is somehome outdated or broken |
| 00:11.30 | Mousey | 4 shells deep |
| 00:11.31 | jott | backspace should work.. |
| 00:11.39 | KotCzarny | i run 2x epic + screen + 5 shells + im client + logger |
| 00:11.44 | Mousey | reluctantly installs screen again |
| 00:11.44 | KotCzarny | and links browser sometimes |
| 00:12.46 | KotCzarny | ah, and sshd of course |
| 00:12.46 | KotCzarny | :) |
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| 00:13.18 | KotCzarny | dnsmasq, junkbuster proxy, crond, httpd |
| 00:13.19 | jott | add a mutt and elinks and you have everything you need ;) |
| 00:13.31 | KotCzarny | so.. which part of lack of memory you are talking about? |
| 00:13.32 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 00:13.52 | KotCzarny | jott: i prefer links2 |
| 00:14.04 | jott | why? |
| 00:14.13 | KotCzarny | laziness |
| 00:14.18 | jott | can it do 256 colors? ;) |
| 00:14.28 | KotCzarny | it can do graphics |
| 00:14.29 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 00:14.44 | jott | in screen? :) |
| 00:14.51 | KotCzarny | heh |
| 00:14.55 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 00:15.07 | KotCzarny | that's limited by sshd :) |
| 00:15.15 | elb | I'm not sure if this is relevant ... but I find that ^] is a fantastic screen escape key |
| 00:15.15 | KotCzarny | and screen itself :) |
| 00:15.30 | KotCzarny | elb: i have learned about it hard way |
| 00:15.39 | KotCzarny | when i setup 'resize +3' to it |
| 00:15.40 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 00:16.05 | fang64 | KotCzarny: have you seen these http://www.lantronix.com/device-networking/embedded-device-servers/xport-ar.html |
| 00:16.14 | jott | nearly as funny as [return] ~ . in a ssh session |
| 00:16.35 | KotCzarny | fang, heh |
| 00:16.43 | Mousey | you guys got screen from debfarm? |
| 00:16.57 | KotCzarny | mousey: i usually compile stuff myself |
| 00:17.10 | KotCzarny | heh.. 120mhz ? |
| 00:17.12 | KotCzarny | lol |
| 00:17.18 | fang64 | I know |
| 00:17.18 | fang64 | lol |
| 00:17.27 | elb | no, I mean I use ^] as screen's escape key |
| 00:17.46 | elb | and it's great ... because essentially nothing else uses it, and the things which do use it as an escape key |
| 00:18.27 | Mousey | yea, doesn't work |
| 00:18.47 | fang64 | KotCzarny: dunno add about acouple of those to your home network you might have a exploiters dream home lol and what's bad is appliances are beginning to use those |
| 00:19.07 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 00:19.18 | fang64 | It's like why are my windows opening themselves uhhhh |
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| 00:21.46 | KotCzarny | hmm |
| 00:21.52 | KotCzarny | it costs ~70$ ? |
| 00:22.00 | fang64 | probably cheaper in bulk |
| 00:22.06 | KotCzarny | humm |
| 00:23.28 | fang64 | I first saw those in a CNC shop to update older machines to support NC script loading over the network. they weren't that small though lol |
| 00:27.07 | Curs0r | fang64, do you know of a linux app that a SurfCAM user would find comfortable? |
| 00:27.26 | fang64 | uhm I've seen SurfCAM, never used it |
| 00:27.51 | fang64 | most guys I've seen run shops end up hiring a in house programmer to write their linux CAM programs |
| 00:28.11 | fang64 | if they don't they end up using something commercial and windows |
| 00:28.11 | fang64 | lol |
| 00:28.28 | Curs0r | I figured as much. I'm learning OpenGL for that reason |
| 00:28.47 | KotCzarny | hmm |
| 00:29.31 | fang64 | dunno seems like there would be a CAM app for linux that would simulate different cam interfaces |
| 00:29.42 | fang64 | I know alot of people using MasterCAM through wine |
| 00:30.09 | fang64 | can't quite quit the program to completely migrate away |
| 00:30.17 | Curs0r | I'm just going to write the ultimate spaghetti code kludge that does it all, the accounting, shipping/receiving, the machines, the art, the whole lot |
| 00:30.26 | fang64 | hehe |
| 00:30.42 | Curs0r | Because quickbooks sucks too |
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| 00:31.53 | fang64 | uhmm it is a problem |
| 00:32.42 | fang64 | I'm not much of a machinist person, I just deal with a lot of them, since when the computer breaks typically solution is to buy or replace. So they end up calling me when they run over budget. |
| 00:33.08 | fang64 | then again that's what alot of companies end up doing locally |
| 00:33.18 | Curs0r | The average peron sits down in front of modern accounting software and is pretty much immediately baffled by it. |
| 00:33.19 | fang64 | not the most effective system |
| 00:33.34 | fang64 | I would agree with you there |
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| 00:33.43 | Curs0r | So I'm just going to try and write from the perspective of the guy that owns the shop. |
| 00:34.12 | elb | the problem is, a lot of that confusing accounting stuff is there for a reason |
| 00:34.18 | KotCzarny | i like the cases when 'my computer is broken' == 'os doesn't start because of spyware/viruses' |
| 00:34.18 | KotCzarny | :) |
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| 00:34.58 | fang64 | it's quite annoying to roll up to company who has bought at least 30 machines to replace the 10 they had problems with originally |
| 00:35.07 | fang64 | the extra 20 is incase those fail |
| 00:35.22 | Curs0r | elb, the language can be simplified, with nice, safe, friendly, monosyllabic words. |
| 00:35.57 | elb | Curs0r: oh, yes, hte language can be simplified, or at least explained |
| 00:36.10 | elb | but a lot of the arcane *practices* turn out to be very nice in certain situations |
| 00:36.13 | elb | like tax time ;-) |
| 00:36.24 | elb | bless double-entry accounting ;-) |
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| 00:50.32 | smackpotato | i bought a fon router they use there on domain server and block some sights |
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| 00:51.04 | fang64 | I got mine free |
| 00:51.08 | fang64 | during the giveaway |
| 00:51.22 | fang64 | you can definitely take the fon part out of them |
| 00:51.26 | fang64 | lol |
| 00:51.34 | smackpotato | i bet u can set the domain name server too |
| 00:51.38 | fang64 | indeed |
| 00:51.45 | fang64 | it'll piss off the fonero guys |
| 00:52.17 | fang64 | not that it matters |
| 00:52.36 | smackpotato | noone has posted a how to for the latest |
| 00:53.33 | fang64 | which one do you have |
| 00:53.40 | smackpotato | i dont think |
| 00:54.20 | fang64 | there is a serial port |
| 00:54.23 | fang64 | you can tap into |
| 00:54.46 | smackpotato | fon2201 |
| 00:55.11 | smackpotato | im to shaky to solder |
| 00:55.19 | fang64 | ah |
| 00:55.24 | fang64 | yah that is a problem |
| 00:56.12 | smackpotato | i should take it appart for the h of it |
| 00:56.46 | smackpotato | so what do you do with the serial port |
| 00:57.13 | fang64 | well you need to drop the voltage of the serial interface they use |
| 00:57.19 | fang64 | right now I would wait a bit |
| 00:57.38 | smackpotato | k |
| 00:57.41 | fang64 | they might come out with something |
| 00:57.44 | fang64 | I'm just digging around |
| 00:57.48 | fang64 | didn't realize they had a new model |
| 00:59.25 | smackpotato | is yours very powerfull |
| 00:59.53 | fang64 | dunno yet |
| 01:00.01 | fang64 | haven't had a chance to play around with it really |
| 01:00.09 | smackpotato | ok |
| 01:00.10 | fang64 | I know it can be modified easily though |
| 01:00.26 | fang64 | I actually got it to use it but you mentioning the dns server blocking |
| 01:00.26 | smackpotato | good |
| 01:00.27 | fang64 | that's not good |
| 01:01.12 | smackpotato | i dont know about the older ones |
| 01:01.27 | fang64 | the older ones are easier |
| 01:04.19 | fang64 | smackpotato: http://fonblog.wordpress.com/2007/08/27/la-fonera-hack-it-if-you-can/ seems like slightly more trouble |
| 01:05.00 | smackpotato | tx for the link ill check it out now |
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| 01:05.50 | fang64 | there is one apparently now |
| 01:06.07 | fang64 | http://www.fonboard.nl/wiki/La_Fonera_Plus_Access |
| 01:06.25 | fang64 | smackpotato: good luck surprised me |
| 01:08.44 | smackpotato | some chance. take care |
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| 01:33.50 | mrmac | I had a question about the Nokia N800. |
| 01:34.38 | mrmac | Does anyone here know if you can use a Apple bluetooth keyboard with it? |
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| 01:36.13 | elb | someone was saying they do, just the other day |
| 01:36.19 | elb | or with an 810, I think |
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| 01:40.08 | jga23 | is there any real difference between dbus and osso? |
| 01:40.33 | mikedep333 | hey, how do I make it so the file manager in OS2008 reads a directory upon me opening it? |
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| 03:09.24 | randomperson83 | hi all |
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| 03:27.44 | pupnik | he said 'fiber channel' huhuhuh |
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| 03:30.18 | KotCzarny | who? |
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| 03:50.59 | Navi | johnx, you have an Eee PC? |
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| 03:58.40 | pupnik | http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/020569.html oil isn't getting more expensive... if you use real money |
| 03:59.10 | GeneralAntilles | Hehe |
| 03:59.30 | GeneralAntilles | rants for the gold standard for a bit. |
| 03:59.35 | elb | that chart doesn't say what you think it does |
| 03:59.48 | elb | but, yeah, a big problem with the "price of oil" is the suckitude of the dollar |
| 04:00.17 | elb | gold is artificially inflated right now for various good and not-so-good reasons |
| 04:00.36 | elb | it's not nearly as *useful* as its price, it's a fiat currency just like dollars or Euros or whatever |
| 04:00.44 | KotCzarny | it's not the gold, but deflation of other 'money' types |
| 04:01.01 | KotCzarny | only real currency is energy |
| 04:01.02 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 04:01.05 | elb | (the other precious metals are all much more representative of real value, because they have industrial value above and beyond their shiny factor) |
| 04:01.19 | elb | KotCzarny: Gold is inflated more than the dollar is deflated |
| 04:01.28 | pupnik | no it's not a fiat currency, it's a natural currency which evolved from the market |
| 04:01.43 | elb | oh, sure, it's a market-traded currency |
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| 04:01.52 | elb | but its value isn't based on any fundamental worth |
| 04:01.57 | KotCzarny | elb: it goes up and down, but it's a good indicator of rulers currency value |
| 04:01.58 | elb | unlike, say, silver or copper |
| 04:02.00 | doc|home | elb: frankly, that's bollocks |
| 04:02.22 | elb | doc|home: frankly, you're going to have to be a lot more specific |
| 04:02.28 | doc|home | gold has a value as a store of wealth |
| 04:02.34 | doc|home | has had one for thousands of years |
| 04:02.44 | elb | right, but that value is based on a perception |
| 04:02.50 | pupnik | and it's divisible, unlike diamonds |
| 04:02.53 | doc|home | given that the money supply increased 17% last year alone, how can you say gold of all things is overpriced |
| 04:02.58 | KotCzarny | and the fact that you can't just 'print' gold |
| 04:03.07 | doc|home | elb: what's the value of the dollar based on? |
| 04:03.17 | KotCzarny | doc: it's a promise |
| 04:03.18 | doc|home | it sure as hell isn't the value of the paper and the ink |
| 04:03.19 | elb | doc|home: and gold has increased by 100% in the past 48 months :-P |
| 04:03.21 | KotCzarny | from the rulers |
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| 04:03.24 | doc|home | KotCzarny: a promise of what? |
| 04:03.31 | KotCzarny | that it has a value |
| 04:03.32 | elb | oh, yes, the dollar is absolutely based on perception |
| 04:03.39 | elb | that doesn't make gold *not* perception |
| 04:03.39 | doc|home | elb: right, and why do you think that might be? |
| 04:03.39 | KotCzarny | and can be exchanged for goods |
| 04:03.42 | elb | there's a logical fallacy there |
| 04:03.43 | KotCzarny | or services |
| 04:03.48 | doc|home | KotCzarny: what quantity of goods? |
| 04:03.59 | doc|home | not a set one, that's for sure |
| 04:04.01 | KotCzarny | doc: that's where it goes murky |
| 04:04.05 | doc|home | precisely |
| 04:04.19 | doc|home | now, look at this and tell me it's not the dollar that's being inflated http://www.thedailygreen.com/environmental-news/latest/oil-gold-commodities-47041507 |
| 04:04.30 | elb | doc|home: because people *perceive* gold as having value which its intrinsic properties, in an industrial sense, do not support |
| 04:04.34 | elb | it's *shiny* |
| 04:04.57 | elb | yes, that is no doubt what pupnik pasted which started this conversation |
| 04:05.00 | doc|home | elb: who gives a shit about shiny? it's that it's long lasting, limited in supply and can not be printed at the whim off a politician |
| 04:05.08 | doc|home | *of a |
| 04:05.10 | elb | paying attention is awesome |
| 04:05.20 | elb | limited in supply is meaningless if it has no *value* |
| 04:05.23 | doc|home | elb: I joined late, so sue me, that doesn't make the graph any less true |
| 04:05.27 | elb | my fecal matter is limited in supply |
| 04:05.30 | elb | but none of you are going to buy it |
| 04:05.32 | doc|home | elb: its value is as a commodity that can be traded |
| 04:05.39 | elb | I think you need to read the beginning of the discussion |
| 04:05.48 | *** join/#maemo mbuf (n=shakthim@61.16.248.242) |
| 04:05.49 | elb | because I don't think you're arguing against what you think you're arguing against |
| 04:05.53 | doc|home | elb: right, because your fecal matter will disappear |
| 04:05.59 | elb | I might sue you for non sequitur drivel |
| 04:06.02 | doc|home | it degrades |
| 04:06.06 | doc|home | elb: huh? |
| 04:06.29 | elb | but ... I'll go to bed, instead |
| 04:06.32 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 04:06.34 | doc|home | nice, run along then |
| 04:06.52 | elb | (note that gold *also* cannot be traded for a "set quantity" of goods) |
| 04:06.53 | KotCzarny | truth is, rulers need cheap slaves |
| 04:06.57 | doc|home | see, introduce logic and people quickly disappear |
| 04:07.05 | KotCzarny | and money is a good way to control them |
| 04:07.09 | elb | think about that fr a few minutes and see if you can understand that gold is traded for value just like the dollar |
| 04:07.10 | *** join/#maemo oob (n=oob@photon-comb.akcr8.global-gateway.net.nz) |
| 04:07.25 | elb | I completely agree with you that printing money and etc. are bad, I think you're not arguing against what you think you are |
| 04:07.31 | doc|home | elb: 3.4 grams (or so) of it can be traded for a barrel of oil, just like 8 years ago, that's much more set than the dollar |
| 04:07.36 | elb | but that doesn't make gold something of magic ever-lasting value and use |
| 04:07.43 | *** join/#maemo opendeep (n=pradeep@61.16.248.242) |
| 04:07.53 | KotCzarny | yup |
| 04:07.56 | KotCzarny | ufo invasion |
| 04:07.58 | doc|home | elb: no it doesn't, but it's a hell of a lot better than the paper with the presidents heads on it |
| 04:08.02 | KotCzarny | from a gold rich planet |
| 04:08.03 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 04:08.14 | elb | yes, it is more set than the dollar -- but when the dollar regains traction and the value of gold falls (which it will, it always does), the dollar will appear to *gain* versus gold |
| 04:08.20 | elb | and likely the price of oil will not fall consummately |
| 04:08.21 | doc|home | KotCzarny: then I'll be the first to say gold is a bad idea |
| 04:08.31 | doc|home | elb: why is the dollar going to regain traction? |
| 04:08.36 | opendeep | hi |
| 04:08.40 | KotCzarny | i agree with elb that gold can loose value as well |
| 04:08.50 | doc|home | elb: look back at the last 90 years, where has it regained traction? |
| 04:08.53 | elb | ALL I said was, gold is also not based on intrinsic *useful* value, whereas several otehr precious metals *are* |
| 04:09.04 | KotCzarny | but for now it has more value than paper |
| 04:09.09 | elb | doc|home: 2001 |
| 04:09.15 | KotCzarny | hmm |
| 04:09.21 | KotCzarny | gold has useful value |
| 04:09.29 | doc|home | elb: sure, but that makes it more useful, not less, as a store of wealth, there's not going to be supply/demand cycles in its value |
| 04:09.32 | elb | KotCzarny: yes, it does, but not $900/oz useful value |
| 04:09.38 | doc|home | (i.e. the quantity of goods it can buy) |
| 04:09.39 | KotCzarny | heh |
| 04:09.44 | KotCzarny | because $$ has no value |
| 04:09.46 | doc|home | elb: pffft, 2001? that's a blip in the overall graph |
| 04:09.51 | elb | doc|home: of course |
| 04:09.58 | elb | the dollar is inherently inflationary |
| 04:10.00 | elb | I don't disagree |
| 04:10.00 | doc|home | the dollar is now worth 3 cents compared to 90 years ago |
| 04:10.09 | elb | as I said, you're not arguing against what you think you're arguing against |
| 04:10.25 | doc|home | what is it I'm arguing against if that's the case? |
| 04:10.37 | elb | I suspect I agree with you more than I disagree with you on basing a currency -- but you saw someone saying that Ron Paul's gift of gold was less than absolute gospel and blew your top |
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| 04:11.06 | elb | I already said -- ALL I claimed is that the value of gold is NOT based on its inherent worht as a substance, it has fiat value based on perceived worth |
| 04:11.22 | KotCzarny | true |
| 04:11.28 | doc|home | its value *is* it being a store of wealth, how is that not intrinsic? |
| 04:11.32 | KotCzarny | but that value is probably stable |
| 04:11.34 | elb | and note additionally that that value is currently propped up by major world governments hoarding it |
| 04:12.02 | elb | (as well as regulating the release of new supply) |
| 04:12.08 | KotCzarny | hmm |
| 04:12.18 | KotCzarny | world is moving to 'credit' money anyway |
| 04:12.23 | doc|home | elb: governments hoarding it? they mostly offloaded it as much as possible to keep its value down |
| 04:12.31 | KotCzarny | that's worth even less than paper |
| 04:12.32 | elb | doc|home: tell that to Fort Knox ;-) |
| 04:12.33 | doc|home | it having a high value shows openly how much their inflating |
| 04:12.48 | doc|home | elb: fort knox? which hasn't had a public audit in decades? |
| 04:12.59 | elb | there are many countries of the world where it's still not legal to own bullion |
| 04:13.08 | elb | oh, now I'm not going to get into conspiracy theories |
| 04:13.27 | doc|home | elb: that's no theory, it's a fact, there hasn't been one |
| 04:13.49 | elb | that's fine -- but suggesting that that means there's no gold left is a conspiracy theory |
| 04:14.13 | elb | anyway, I really am going to bed |
| 04:14.20 | elb | and I really do think we need to fix the currency |
| 04:14.20 | KotCzarny | :> |
| 04:14.21 | doc|home | elb: given that the ECB sells up to 500 tonnes a year, and the british sold off massive quantities early this decade, I really don't see how you can believe they're hoarding it |
| 04:14.41 | elb | (but I don't think gold, specifically, is a magic fairy dust) |
| 04:15.10 | doc|home | I don't either, but I don't care for its magical qualities, I care for it as a store of wealth and a means of preventing governments from inflating at their own whim |
| 04:15.24 | GeneralAntilles | starts hoarding magic fairy dust in preparation for its eventual use as currency. |
| 04:15.29 | doc|home | hahaha |
| 04:15.36 | doc|home | hadn't thought of that :o |
| 04:16.07 | elb | it's only a store of wealth because people believe it is a store of wealth |
| 04:16.09 | GeneralAntilles | also starts hoarding elb's poo through a proxy just in case. |
| 04:16.12 | elb | think about that until it registers ;-) |
| 04:16.26 | elb | "but it's a store of wealth, so it has inherent value" is a circular argument |
| 04:16.46 | KotCzarny | it was during most of the human history |
| 04:16.51 | KotCzarny | why should it change now? |
| 04:17.00 | doc|home | elb: you mean like the last few thousand years? |
| 04:17.03 | Navi | I'm a fairy |
| 04:17.12 | doc|home | Navi: in the gay sense? |
| 04:17.14 | elb | people love shiny things, don't get me wrong |
| 04:17.16 | GeneralAntilles | hold Navi hostage in his basement. |
| 04:17.20 | doc|home | good for you! hope thay works out for you |
| 04:17.27 | elb | look at diamonds as a good example of what I mean |
| 04:17.29 | Navi | doc|home, in they "Hey! Listen!" sense. |
| 04:17.34 | doc|home | hehe |
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| 04:17.37 | elb | (note that diamonds were essentially worthless until DeBeers got ahold of them) |
| 04:18.02 | doc|home | elb: really, it's not about the shiny, and you make yourself sound silly to anyone who actually has a clue about why gold has a value when you say such things |
| 04:18.09 | elb | (and they still *are* ... unless they've been blessed by a magical closed very fiat-like process -- industrial diamonds are nearly free, and they have actual *use*) |
| 04:18.13 | doc|home | mirrors are shiny too |
| 04:18.16 | elb | doc|home: it has value because it's a store of wealth! |
| 04:18.23 | elb | welcome to failing PHIL 101 ;-) |
| 04:18.43 | GeneralAntilles | Let's all bank on copper. |
| 04:18.44 | doc|home | nice, avoiding the reasoning as to why it's a store of wealth, congratulations |
| 04:18.52 | KotCzarny | hmm |
| 04:18.53 | doc|home | GeneralAntilles: I'll take it over paper :/ |
| 04:18.57 | elb | why is it a store of wealth? |
| 04:19.00 | elb | it's limited, fine |
| 04:19.00 | KotCzarny | it all boils down to humans |
| 04:19.03 | elb | so are lots of other things |
| 04:19.11 | elb | nice, avoiding reality |
| 04:19.13 | elb | now go look up diamonds |
| 04:19.17 | doc|home | elb: do I get a chance to reply? |
| 04:19.20 | elb | while I sleep |
| 04:19.30 | KotCzarny | and it doesn't matter what do you use as a currency as long it's stable |
| 04:19.32 | doc|home | or are you just going to try to say things quickly so you sound superior? |
| 04:19.44 | doc|home | and then rush off before I get the chance |
| 04:20.15 | doc|home | KotCzarny: definitely, but the demands of politics means there's waaaay too much temptation to do anything but keep it stable. |
| 04:20.20 | *** join/#maemo sarower (n=sarower@202.4.103.10) |
| 04:20.28 | sarower | hello, |
| 04:20.53 | sarower | I want to use OpenGL ES in maemo to develop the application in c++ |
| 04:20.53 | doc|home | that's been the downfall of currencies for most of history, even in metals when there's debasement |
| 04:20.56 | KotCzarny | yeah.. politics |
| 04:21.11 | sarower | any body can help to set up the development environment?? |
| 04:21.34 | elb | doc|home: you can reply if you like, I haven't seen anything logical yet |
| 04:21.48 | elb | maybe you're just slow and distracted by what I type ... but I've seen arguments from this rant before |
| 04:21.53 | elb | it all comes down to "it has value because it has value" |
| 04:21.57 | KotCzarny | Gold can be used in food and has the E Number 175. |
| 04:21.59 | KotCzarny | hehe |
| 04:22.22 | elb | but if you can't eat it, and you can't make stuff to process stuff you can eat from it, it ain't got intrinsic value |
| 04:22.32 | elb | it does ship those electrons mighty fast, though |
| 04:22.39 | sarower | How i Can use OpenGL ES / Mesa with maemo |
| 04:22.41 | sarower | ? |
| 04:22.46 | doc|home | elb: it has value because the supply can't grow any faster than it's mined. Politicians can't make it as they like, which reduces inflation. As fast as its mined is somewhere close to population growth. |
| 04:22.53 | Navi | sarower, with magic |
| 04:22.58 | doc|home | it's easily divisible and is durable |
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| 04:23.07 | kulve | sarower: have you installed the maemo SDK yet? |
| 04:23.10 | pupnik | sarower: is pretty useless imo |
| 04:23.20 | KotCzarny | and it's used by most countries |
| 04:23.30 | doc|home | elb: that is why, over history, non-metal based currencies fail and metal based ones always reappear |
| 04:23.37 | sarower | Kulve: yes i have installed Maemo SDK 3.X |
| 04:23.51 | kulve | I recommend 4.X, as the 3 is the old one |
| 04:24.00 | sarower | pupnik: Could not understand .. |
| 04:24.20 | pupnik | sarower: no hardware gl. only software. slow. useless |
| 04:24.20 | sarower | but 4.x do not have open gl support |
| 04:24.35 | KotCzarny | pupnik: he needs it for learning, probably |
| 04:24.38 | kulve | sarower: both 3 and 4 have the same support: none |
| 04:24.39 | pupnik | ohhh |
| 04:24.43 | KotCzarny | at least from i understood |
| 04:24.49 | KotCzarny | *from what |
| 04:24.57 | elb | doc|home: I totally agree with all of that |
| 04:25.01 | elb | but ti doesn't change my claims :-) |
| 04:25.22 | elb | as I said ... you're not arguing against what I'm saying, you're arguing against the fact that I wasn't kissy-kissy with gold |
| 04:25.25 | kulve | sarower: so, install the 4.0, then install e.g. the vincent packages, and start coding |
| 04:25.40 | pupnik | nah you just have a utilitarian view of value elb |
| 04:26.01 | sarower | kulve: If i install nincent package... will it work? |
| 04:26.06 | pupnik | whereas the austrians prove Ricardo and Adam Smith misunderstood valuation. |
| 04:26.11 | kulve | sarower: yse |
| 04:26.26 | sarower | what would be the syntax... ? |
| 04:26.33 | pupnik | So if people value gold because it's shiny, then gold has value. |
| 04:26.34 | sarower | Kulve? |
| 04:26.39 | *** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=salveti@189.44.51.122) |
| 04:26.41 | kulve | sarower: the normal open gl es C API |
| 04:26.49 | kulve | sarower: you can code that on a PC too.. |
| 04:26.51 | sarower | openglES or Glut or Glu? |
| 04:26.56 | kulve | ES |
| 04:27.09 | doc|home | elb: that is inherent value, we're not talking about industrial value |
| 04:27.14 | sarower | Ok lets have a try..! |
| 04:27.25 | doc|home | something doesn't have to have industrial value to have inherent value |
| 04:27.27 | pupnik | sorry i'll stopp offtopic |
| 04:27.33 | sarower | Kulve: Do you have any experience ? |
| 04:28.00 | KotCzarny | hmm, btw. any idea what can be used as a real indicator of value? |
| 04:28.09 | sarower | Then what would be the best way of installing the vincent package? |
| 04:28.13 | sarower | Kluve? |
| 04:28.14 | kulve | sarower: not much on open gl. I did run somebody's demo on my n810. The FPS was about 0.2 |
| 04:28.16 | KotCzarny | because from what i have seen everything moves up and down |
| 04:28.41 | KotCzarny | and the whole talk about gold value is meaningless a little |
| 04:28.44 | kulve | sarower: the normal way, adding the repository for apt, then installing it with apt-get |
| 04:29.07 | sarower | do you know the repository location? |
| 04:30.56 | soman | hii... how to install ogg-support on N810... when i try "gst-inspect oggdemux" it says no element oggdemux |
| 04:31.19 | sarower | Kulve: Thank you very much! lets see what happen! |
| 04:31.32 | sarower | Now can I talk to Mr. Navi please!!! |
| 04:31.43 | KotCzarny | lol |
| 04:31.47 | sarower | Navi: I want to talk to you now |
| 04:31.57 | Navi | Why? |
| 04:32.01 | sarower | What do you think?? |
| 04:32.11 | *** join/#maemo jga23_ (n=jga23@pool-71-107-35-138.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 04:32.12 | sarower | about using the open gl in maemo? |
| 04:32.55 | sarower | you saying: <Navi> sarower, with magic |
| 04:35.43 | pupnik | not many people do this sarower |
| 04:35.55 | GeneralAntilles | i.e. no people |
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| 04:36.03 | sarower | hmm... I know! |
| 04:38.30 | *** join/#maemo Sargun (i=nobody@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 04:42.31 | kulve | soman: you click the single install file from the maemo.org/downloads |
| 04:43.09 | *** join/#maemo lopz (i=Gentoo-D@unaffiliated/lopz) |
| 04:46.40 | soman | kulve: when i try to download oggsupport from N810 .. it it says "uanable to install. software contains updates to packages installed from a different source and is likely to harm the system. contact software author" |
| 04:47.35 | kulve | soman: oh, that's new to me.. |
| 04:47.49 | kulve | soman: have you installed mogg before install ogg-support? |
| 04:48.02 | soman | kulve : yup |
| 04:48.36 | kulve | ok, so you probably need to remove the libogg and libivorbisdec from the commandline :( |
| 04:48.38 | GeneralAntilles | I believe it's trying to pull updated packages from a different repo |
| 04:48.43 | GeneralAntilles | Try with apt-get. |
| 04:50.22 | kulve | GeneralAntilles: it is, because my packages comes from my repo, and mogg packages from extras |
| 04:50.45 | GeneralAntilles | wishes there weren't so many damn repos. |
| 04:51.09 | kulve | not that simple |
| 04:51.38 | GeneralAntilles | No, but still. ;) |
| 04:51.54 | GeneralAntilles | It hurts users more than it hinders developers. |
| 04:52.08 | kulve | and that error is only because nokia desided do something different than e.g. debian does |
| 04:52.36 | soman | kulve :how to remove libogg and libvorbisdec and mogg |
| 04:52.58 | KotCzarny | format c:\ |
| 04:53.14 | KotCzarny | (ok, that wasn't funny) |
| 04:53.32 | kulve | soman: log in as root, apt-get remove libogg libivorbisdec |
| 04:55.09 | *** join/#maemo eton (n=eton@ppp-58-8-1-246.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 04:57.17 | soman | kulve: do i need to remove all the packages with which theres a conflict.... in the application details - problems tab -- it lists many packages under "conflict with application packages" |
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| 04:58.30 | *** part/#maemo randomperson83 (n=Random@146-115-29-20.c3-0.wtr-ubr1.sbo-wtr.ma.cable.rcn.com) |
| 04:59.38 | kulve | there shouldn't be many.. |
| 05:00.04 | kulve | I'm sorry, but I have to leave now. |
| 05:00.05 | kulve | bbl |
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| 05:17.03 | Khertan_n810 | Hi |
| 05:21.05 | soman | kulve : it says "Application packages missing : libtheora0" |
| 05:21.20 | soman | do i need to install libtheora0 |
| 05:22.19 | Khertan_n810 | is there another irc client on 2008 than telepathy ? |
| 05:22.26 | Navi | xchat beta |
| 05:22.41 | Khertan_n810 | where can i found it |
| 05:22.43 | Navi | I was going to build irssi, but realized there was no point |
| 05:22.59 | Khertan_n810 | don t see it in gronmayer database' |
| 05:23.13 | Khertan_n810 | nor my current repos list |
| 05:23.31 | Navi | http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/xchat-chinook-betas/ |
| 05:23.43 | Navi | Link courtesy of GeneralAntilles |
| 05:24.11 | GeneralAntilles | Ha |
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| 05:24.26 | Navi | Don't ha me |
| 05:24.39 | doc|home | ha |
| 05:24.40 | Khertan_n810 | thx |
| 05:25.06 | Khertan_n810 | :) |
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| 05:28.11 | Khertan_on_n810 | re |
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| 05:30.34 | Navi | phail |
| 05:30.42 | Khertan_on_n810 | ? |
| 05:33.21 | Khertan_on_n810 | osso-xterm is really a pain to use on os200i |
| 05:33.23 | Khertan_on_n810 | 8 |
| 05:33.51 | Khertan_on_n810 | version for os2007 was far better and more stable |
| 05:34.06 | GeneralAntilles | http://www.sse2.net/xterm |
| 05:34.15 | *** join/#maemo dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 05:34.44 | GeneralAntilles | Blame a combination of Nokia's stupid-ass UI spec and rushed programming. |
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| 05:35.55 | *** join/#maemo Mousey (n=AreYou@dsl093-144-195.sba1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 05:36.09 | Khertan_on_n810 | the worst problem is the duplicate bug toolbar |
| 05:37.03 | Khertan_on_n810 | an other one is when script end ... no other windows can be open until precedent script window is closed |
| 05:38.08 | Navi | Hehe |
| 05:38.23 | Khertan_on_n810 | GeneralAntilles > what is your project about application installer ? i ve understood well what u say on your web site |
| 05:38.34 | GeneralAntilles | I have a website? |
| 05:38.55 | jeddy3 | wow, tabletschool article is spot on |
| 05:39.20 | Khertan_on_n810 | oups sorry it s not your with xchat packages |
| 05:39.41 | GeneralAntilles | Oh, right, I understand the misunderstanding. |
| 05:39.52 | GeneralAntilles | Navi was just referencing the fact that I'm always pasting that xchat link in here. ;) |
| 05:40.02 | Khertan_on_n810 | it s morning ... not really wake up yep :) |
| 05:40.13 | GeneralAntilles | Ugh, Canola is exactly the wrong interface to use for the tablets. :\ |
| 05:40.15 | Navi | Ooh, that xterm is awesome |
| 05:40.19 | GeneralAntilles | Krisse is dead wrong on this one. |
| 05:40.36 | Navi | What's wrong with the canola interface? |
| 05:40.38 | Khertan_on_n810 | i hate canola |
| 05:40.45 | Khertan_on_n810 | it s useless |
| 05:40.50 | GeneralAntilles | Nothing in particular |
| 05:40.59 | Khertan_on_n810 | too much thing to play a song |
| 05:41.04 | GeneralAntilles | but it doesn't make sense as a replacement for Hildon. |
| 05:41.16 | GeneralAntilles | Navi, http://tabletschool.blogspot.com/ |
| 05:41.17 | KotCzarny | i hate hildon |
| 05:42.05 | Khertan_on_n810 | i like the result of hildon but i hate the lack of signal on manyn hildon widget |
| 05:42.06 | jeddy3 | yeah, canola is maybe not excactly right, but it's far better than hildon |
| 05:42.06 | GeneralAntilles | I don't disagree with the fact that it needs an overhaul, but Canola is the wrong direction. |
| 05:42.13 | jeddy3 | GeneralAntilles, true |
| 05:42.30 | GeneralAntilles | Dumbing it down so idiots can pick it up and use it is a stupid reason to change a UI. |
| 05:42.35 | jeddy3 | GeneralAntilles, what direction would you prefer? |
| 05:42.52 | KotCzarny | having no choice is stupid direction |
| 05:43.21 | KotCzarny | if having hildon and/or canola vs hildon only |
| 05:43.29 | KotCzarny | i prefer the first option |
| 05:44.26 | jeddy3 | one thing i would like is fullscreen (or almost) applications by default, i hate that the sidebar and topbar takes up like one fourth of the screen estate |
| 05:44.36 | Khertan_on_n810 | how do u make all feature available with an interface like canola |
| 05:44.38 | RST38h | Canola is an application, it is no desktop |
| 05:45.04 | GeneralAntilles | The taskbar and statusbar need a workover |
| 05:45.13 | GeneralAntilles | Horizontal space is probably the most important. |
| 05:45.14 | jeddy3 | RST38h, i think the point is canolas user interface, not canola per se |
| 05:45.24 | GeneralAntilles | Taskbar needs to be cut down by half and maybe moved to the bottom. |
| 05:45.29 | RST38h | Canola's user interface is a pretty standard PMP UI |
| 05:45.33 | GeneralAntilles | (or at least be configurable) |
| 05:45.41 | RST38h | It is good for PMP, but not for general stuff |
| 05:45.47 | Khertan_on_n810 | jeddy3 > i like the toolbar on the right ... i can switch easily between apps |
| 05:45.56 | GeneralAntilles | Halving the taskbar would double the number of items it can hold. |
| 05:46.04 | KotCzarny | are there canola widgets? no, it's an standalone app |
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| 05:46.12 | KotCzarny | *a |
| 05:46.26 | RST38h | Nothing prohibits Nokia from starting Canola by default and always keeping it on, though |
| 05:46.38 | Khertan_on_n810 | horizontal space is important for some people ! but for others it s vertical space ! |
| 05:46.42 | RST38h | (they just need to throw in more SDRAM for that) |
| 05:46.48 | GeneralAntilles | Which is why it should be configurable. |
| 05:47.21 | jeddy3 | Khertan_on_n810, you could switch applications with something smaller than a two decimeter wide bar always visible =) |
| 05:47.40 | GeneralAntilles | But a much smaller taskbar at the bottom would both practically eliminates horizontal browser scrolling in windowed mode, increase the amount of space for statusbar applets, and increase taskbar space. |
| 05:47.52 | Khertan_on_n810 | jeddy3 > yes but i ll need to use stylus |
| 05:48.01 | Khertan_on_n810 | instead of my finger |
| 05:48.04 | jeddy3 | Khertan_on_n810, not necessarily |
| 05:48.23 | Khertan_on_n810 | (i ve large finger) |
| 05:48.43 | jeddy3 | Khertan_on_n810, if two click switching would be fine, it doesn't need to be stylus |
| 05:48.47 | GeneralAntilles | How do you get the taskbar to move with the rotation stuff, anyway? |
| 05:49.08 | KotCzarny | same as in m$ window$ |
| 05:49.09 | Khertan_on_n810 | jeddy3> so it ll be less use |
| 05:49.44 | jga23_ | can anybody help out with osso.Rpc.rpc_run on the system_bus in python? I get 'system_bus' is an invalid keyword argument for this function |
| 05:50.26 | jga23_ | here's the doc I'm looking at: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/apis/3-x/python-maemo-3.x/pyosso_rpc.html |
| 05:51.47 | Khertan_on_n810 | hum ... a new release of pypackager is near ... (with packages upload to maemo repository) |
| 05:52.54 | sxpert | ok. now I found a bug in the backup tool from 50.2 |
| 05:53.01 | Khertan_on_n810 | window closebox is really too small ! |
| 05:53.03 | Khertan_on_n810 | grrr |
| 05:53.07 | sxpert | dunno if the backup tool for 51.3 is also affected... |
| 05:53.16 | GeneralAntilles | sxpert, they're exactly the same. |
| 05:53.31 | jeddy3 | maybe i'm missing something, but i don't _need_ taskbar information and application menu taking up valuable screen estate _all_ the time, IMHO that is desktop computer thinking in a device thats not desktop |
| 05:53.39 | sxpert | the thing proposes to backup the apps list so that it can get them again, but forgets to backup the sources.list file |
| 05:53.52 | GeneralAntilles | It does backup sources.list |
| 05:53.53 | jeddy3 | but the interface needs to be adapted to such change |
| 05:53.54 | Khertan_on_n810 | is there a date announced for n810 wimax ? |
| 05:53.58 | GeneralAntilles | Extras just has to be re-enabled. |
| 05:54.09 | GeneralAntilles | "Q2 2008", Khertan_on_n810. |
| 05:54.14 | Khertan_on_n810 | thx |
| 05:54.23 | sxpert | GeneralAntilles, well, the restore procedure doesn't re-enable the thing properly |
| 05:54.26 | sxpert | which is a pain |
| 05:54.37 | Khertan_on_n810 | do we know the wimax chip ? |
| 05:54.38 | GeneralAntilles | But it does backup and restore sources.list |
| 05:54.43 | GeneralAntilles | No, Khertan_on_n810. |
| 05:54.53 | GeneralAntilles | It just doesn't enable Extras. |
| 05:54.55 | GeneralAntilles | There's already a bug. |
| 05:55.16 | sxpert | ok |
| 05:55.21 | GeneralAntilles | So just re-enable Extras before you restore applications. |
| 05:55.50 | sxpert | is there a "update everything" button ? |
| 05:56.04 | GeneralAntilles | Diablo |
| 05:56.22 | KotCzarny | sxpert: apt-get upgrade ? |
| 05:56.49 | sxpert | KotCzarny, I was expecting something in the install manager... |
| 05:57.02 | Navi | KotCzarny, apt-get please-put-me-into-an-infinite-reboot? |
| 05:57.03 | sxpert | 'coz clicking on every app is... |
| 05:57.04 | KotCzarny | never seen suck |
| 05:57.07 | KotCzarny | such |
| 05:57.08 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 05:57.12 | GeneralAntilles | Diablo, sxpert. |
| 05:57.18 | GeneralAntilles | It'll have an Update All |
| 05:57.19 | Navi | s/reboot/reboot-loop/ |
| 05:57.21 | KotCzarny | navi: apt-get your-sources-suck-then |
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| 05:57.43 | Navi | KotCzarny, apt-get it-happens-very-often-to-many-people |
| 05:57.54 | GeneralAntilles | Having the rtcomm beta and the SDK repo active when you apt-get upgrade will put you in a reboot loop. |
| 05:57.55 | KotCzarny | navi apt-get install brain |
| 05:58.05 | sxpert | KotCzarny, no such device |
| 05:58.10 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 05:58.10 | Navi | Oh, now we're mud slinging? |
| 05:58.22 | KotCzarny | navi nope, i wasn't talking about you |
| 05:58.35 | KotCzarny | unless you were the one of those people |
| 05:58.40 | Khertan_on_n810 | apt-cache search brain |
| 05:58.45 | Khertan_on_n810 | not found |
| 05:58.46 | Navi | Ha |
| 06:00.00 | Navi | Any way to add alt to the shortcut bar in xterm? |
| 06:00.08 | KotCzarny | nope |
| 06:00.19 | este_ | hey, any of you guys use (py)GTK ? I got a problem where I can clear a textView... frustrating... |
| 06:00.19 | KotCzarny | not without hacking source |
| 06:00.25 | KotCzarny | use xvkbd or xkbd |
| 06:00.44 | KotCzarny | (with special layout of course) |
| 06:01.02 | Navi | No thanks |
| 06:01.03 | este_ | erm, CAN'T clear a textView |
| 06:01.46 | Khertan_on_n810 | hum i want to make an home applet in python ... but i ven t idea ... |
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| 06:02.25 | Khertan_on_n810 | what applet would u wish to have ? |
| 06:02.40 | KotCzarny | without heavy memory footprint |
| 06:02.41 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 06:03.16 | Khertan_on_n810 | este_> TextView.get_buffer().set_text('') |
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| 06:04.12 | Khertan_on_n810 | kotCzarny > python applet haven t heavy memory footprint |
| 06:04.29 | KotCzarny | hmm |
| 06:04.32 | este_ | yea... except.... hmmm.... I know i tried that.... hmmmmm |
| 06:05.23 | este_ | wtf.... man... do I feel stupid |
| 06:05.37 | este_ | i Know i tied that though.... oh well, |
| 06:05.51 | Khertan_on_n810 | my cconnection will drop train enter u,derground |
| 06:06.30 | Khertan_on_n810 | bye |
| 06:06.57 | jga23 | anybody have any experience with dbus/osso in python on the n810? |
| 06:10.31 | Curs0r | Question about the n800. Is it possible to add new cities to the clock's location list? |
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| 06:23.07 | RST38h | X-Fade: Tried committing stuff to the repository last night. Still no luck. SSH refuses connection :( |
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| 07:04.27 | soman | how to play ogg file from command line on N810 |
| 07:05.52 | KotCzarny | mplayer file.name |
| 07:07.04 | g0ldfinGa | do pretty much all bluetooth headsets work with the n800? |
| 07:07.32 | mbuf | why was the FM radio removed in the N810? |
| 07:07.50 | *** join/#maemo jnettlet (n=jnettlet@62.79.78.198.adsl.arc.tiscali.dk) |
| 07:07.54 | KotCzarny | who knows, why was the 2x sd changed to 1x mini sd ? |
| 07:07.58 | g0ldfinGa | it wasnt really an open feature in the n800 either |
| 07:08.39 | KotCzarny | probably one of the ways to reduce size of the device |
| 07:09.21 | g0ldfinGa | hopes to get a GrandCentral account |
| 07:09.25 | mbuf | i see |
| 07:09.28 | soman | i want to play ogg file using gst-launch |
| 07:09.39 | *** join/#maemo hugolp (n=jo@unaffiliated/hugolp) |
| 07:09.49 | KotCzarny | install ogg decode plugin then |
| 07:09.52 | KotCzarny | (probably) |
| 07:13.26 | kulve | soman: gst-launch ! gnomevfssrc ! oggdemux ! ivorbisdec ! pcmdspsink |
| 07:13.29 | kulve | soman: something like that |
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| 07:15.44 | GeneralAntilles | Because fm radios take up space, mbuf. |
| 07:15.46 | soman | Nokia-N810-50-2:~# gst-launch-0.10 gnomevfssrc location=test.ogg ! oggdemux ! ivorbisdec ! audioconvert ! dsppcmsink |
| 07:15.46 | soman | Setting pipeline to PAUSED ... |
| 07:15.46 | soman | Pipeline is PREROLLING ... |
| 07:15.46 | soman | ERROR: from element /pipeline0/oggdemux0: Internal data stream error. |
| 07:15.46 | soman | Additional debug info: |
| 07:15.48 | soman | gstoggdemux.c(3085): gst_ogg_demux_loop (): /pipeline0/oggdemux0: |
| 07:15.50 | soman | stream stopped, reason not-linked |
| 07:15.54 | soman | ERROR: pipeline doesn't want to preroll. |
| 07:15.56 | soman | Setting pipeline to NULL ... |
| 07:15.58 | soman | FREEING pipeline ... |
| 07:16.00 | soman | it gives me this error |
| 07:16.07 | KotCzarny | soman: pastebin.com |
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| 07:17.37 | soman | kulve : what could be the problem |
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| 07:17.54 | kulve | what version you have of the libogg and libivorbisdec? |
| 07:18.38 | soman | i have removed all the packages which were in conflict, and i install ogg-support from maemo |
| 07:19.34 | soman | the version is 1.1.3-2 |
| 07:20.33 | soman | even though i installed ogg-support i am facing this problem |
| 07:21.07 | kulve | what's the version of the vorbis decoder? |
| 07:22.09 | soman | gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-ivorbis 0.10.5-4.tk1 and libvorbisidec1 1.2.0-mogg1 |
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| 07:22.27 | kulve | I have 1.2.0-1.svn20071106.tk1 and he pipeline you said works for me |
| 07:22.48 | kulve | soman: that's the gst plugin, not the vorbis decoder library |
| 07:23.02 | kulve | ah, sorry, I misread that.. |
| 07:23.26 | kulve | so your libvorbisidec1 is still from mogg project |
| 07:23.45 | soman | ofcourse, it came with the ogg-support |
| 07:24.07 | kulve | not "with". It came because it has higher version bumero |
| 07:24.09 | kulve | number |
| 07:24.20 | soman | ok |
| 07:24.41 | soman | then how to upgrade that |
| 07:25.06 | kulve | because mogg project decided to put their packages to extras, there's now conflict between ogg-support and mogg :( |
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| 07:25.36 | kulve | Maybe I'll just upgrade my version numbers to be higher than what the mogg provides.. |
| 07:25.52 | kulve | but it's just stupid to do things like this.. |
| 07:26.41 | soman | then how can i play ogg files on N810 |
| 07:27.11 | KotCzarny | kulve: have you talked to them? |
| 07:27.48 | Curs0r | Anyone know how to add locations to the clock/calendar settings on the n800? |
| 07:28.06 | kulve | KotCzarny: not lately |
| 07:31.24 | soman | kulve, what changes i have to do inorder to play ogg file |
| 07:31.46 | kulve | apt-get remove libvorbisidec1 |
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| 07:31.56 | kulve | apt-get install libvorbisidec1=1.2.0-1.svn20071106.tk1 |
| 07:31.58 | kulve | try that |
| 07:32.24 | KotCzarny | s/=/-/ |
| 07:32.26 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 07:32.55 | jani | Curs0r: there's one text file somewhere there.. i can check. |
| 07:32.55 | kulve | ? |
| 07:33.01 | mbuf | is there an example for a debian maemo source package, that has source code spread across multiple directories; would like to see the Makefile.am, and rules files for the same |
| 07:33.10 | KotCzarny | do you actually have '=' in a package name? |
| 07:33.16 | kulve | KotCzarny: no |
| 07:33.27 | kulve | KotCzarny: that = specifies the version number of the package to install |
| 07:33.40 | KotCzarny | i didn't know that |
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| 07:33.49 | KotCzarny | :) |
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| 07:34.18 | jani | Curs0r: /usr/share/osso-clock/wdb-parsed.txt |
| 07:34.35 | Curs0r | jani, thanks, the closest location I get here is like 400 miles away in another state, the second closest is in another country |
| 07:34.44 | g0ldfinGa | anyone here use grand central? |
| 07:35.36 | jani | Curs0r: *g* |
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| 07:36.39 | Curs0r | A little something to put in my review; Arizona does not exist according to the n800 lol |
| 07:36.46 | soman | kulve, I think i have to install bad plugin once again... coz it now it says "no element vorbisdec" |
| 07:37.40 | soman | do i require bad plugin for that |
| 07:38.10 | kulve | you |
| 07:38.12 | kulve | yup |
| 07:38.39 | kulve | the libvorbis is the actual decoder and the gst bad is provides the gstreamer plugin for the libvorbis |
| 07:39.49 | soman | kulve, still it gives the same error |
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| 07:40.52 | soman | kulve, i gave gst-launch-0.10 gnomevfssrc location=test.ogg ! oggdemux ! ivorbisdec ! audioconvert ! dsppcmsink |
| 07:41.01 | soman | is that a correct command |
| 07:41.05 | kulve | yes |
| 07:41.21 | soman | but,,, i face the same problem |
| 07:42.25 | kulve | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:42.25 | kulve | ii gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-ivorbis 0.10.5-4.tk1 GStreamer plugin for Tremor |
| 07:42.25 | kulve | ii libvorbisidec1 1.2.0-1.svn20071106.tk1 Ogg Bitstream Library |
| 07:42.26 | kulve | and you have those? |
| 07:42.35 | soman | yes, i have the same |
| 07:43.04 | kulve | and "gst-inspect-0.10 ivorbisdec" gives you the error about missing element? |
| 07:45.03 | soman | i did gst-inspect . please find it http://pastebin.com/d790e4c9f |
| 07:45.27 | kulve | ok, so it does find the element |
| 07:45.37 | kulve | are you sure you didn't mistype it before..? |
| 07:46.03 | kulve | on your error above you said "vorbisdec" and not "ivorbisdec".. |
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| 07:48.36 | soman | if i say vorbisdec, it gives me "no element vorbisdec", but if i use ivorbisdec it gives me the error.. http://pastebin.com/d76fb1b71 |
| 07:49.50 | kulve | that works for me. Sorry, cant' really help more and now I have to leave |
| 07:49.52 | kulve | bbl |
| 07:50.15 | soman | ok.. anyway thanks for ur support |
| 07:51.14 | Curs0r | This is a friendly room. I like it here. |
| 07:51.21 | KotCzarny | lol |
| 07:51.49 | Curs0r | I get so tired of linux distro channels and the constant wankerism. |
| 07:52.02 | KotCzarny | curs0r: that's because IT is so nice device :) |
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| 08:04.11 | Khertan | Hi ! |
| 08:07.08 | ralann | heh, wankerism |
| 08:07.15 | ralann | writes that down |
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| 08:26.24 | KotCzarny | lol.. |
| 08:26.33 | KotCzarny | anyone has fanoush's email address? |
| 08:27.59 | qwerty12 | Try dufkaf@seznam.cz |
| 08:28.10 | qwerty12 | Now I feel guilty for clicking the donate button... |
| 08:28.39 | qwerty12 | Although if I ever get me a card, I wouldn't hesitate in clicking it. |
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| 08:32.53 | Khertan | la lalala lala la la |
| 08:33.03 | qwerty12 | asjlkasdkolsad |
| 08:33.38 | Khertan | command not found. |
| 08:38.27 | t_s_o | hmm, replacing the current interface with the canola interface?! |
| 08:39.08 | Khertan | geurk |
| 08:39.17 | t_s_o | :P |
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| 09:07.47 | qwerty12 | Is there a replacement for dh_icons? A package I'm building needs it. |
| 09:08.51 | qwerty12 | Forget it, I extracted from debian sid, |
| 09:09.04 | Cptn-N800 | http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q187/Cptnodegard/DSC00203.jpg |
| 09:09.09 | Cptn-N800 | i might very possibly be bored |
| 09:09.32 | qwerty12 | hehe, is that a school? |
| 09:10.50 | Cptn-N800 | Yes |
| 09:11.10 | qwerty12 | Aww, if I had my N800 out, I'd get confiscated :( |
| 09:12.05 | *** join/#maemo bilboed (n=bilboed@pdpc/supporter/active/bilboed) |
| 09:15.36 | Cptn-N800 | This is a university college, we dont even have to show up |
| 09:15.46 | *** join/#maemo soman (n=somu@61.16.248.242) |
| 09:15.50 | Cptn-N800 | And we can use lappys etc |
| 09:15.59 | inz | And misuse |
| 09:16.11 | Cptn-N800 | In many cases i use my n800 for school stuff, just this subject is boring |
| 09:16.47 | qwerty12 | Hehe, I hate maths. |
| 09:16.59 | inz | math is fun! |
| 09:17.04 | qwerty12 | Thankfully, the teacher is dopey so I use my phone in class :P |
| 09:17.07 | qwerty12 | Never! :P |
| 09:18.09 | Cptn-N800 | This is statistics |
| 09:18.16 | Cptn-N800 | math is its own subject |
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| 09:28.46 | soman | kulve: Thanks for ur support.... i m able to play ogg file now.... im happy... thanks |
| 09:29.03 | kulve | soman: great |
| 09:29.08 | soman | thanks.. |
| 09:29.12 | kulve | soman: did you find out the reason? |
| 09:29.20 | soman | yup... |
| 09:29.48 | soman | first problem is .. i didnt had the libvorbisidec1 1.2.0-1.svn20071106.tk1 |
| 09:30.05 | *** join/#maemo mardi__ (n=mardi_@host81-146-14-124.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net) |
| 09:30.07 | soman | and secondly the ogg file which i have is corrupted one. |
| 09:30.26 | soman | now i tested with different one.. and its playing. |
| 09:30.32 | soman | thanks for ur help |
| 09:30.57 | soman | would like to be in touch with you kulve, |
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| 09:38.32 | Khertan | someone that has never install homeip can try to install it from extras-devel repository ... |
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| 09:46.57 | pupnik | Cptn-N800: funny pic. What course is that? |
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| 09:49.18 | kulve | soman: I'm here about always. I'm reading the maemo developers list too |
| 09:50.04 | Cptn-N800 | Pupnik: bachelor in economics and administration |
| 09:50.23 | Cptn-N800 | First year |
| 09:50.39 | Cptn-N800 | Statistics |
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| 09:54.43 | Gigabites | anyone ever use xgngeo emu? |
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| 10:45.09 | pupnik | it's well hidden |
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| 10:45.36 | pupnik | oops stuck in scrollback |
| 10:48.12 | lardman | any theme creators/users about? |
| 10:48.38 | termsig | guys, it's any chance to switch off dhclient on that applet for searching wireless network? |
| 10:48.47 | lardman | what's thre best one for transparent desktop, though I'd like to just about be able to see the side & top bars |
| 10:49.02 | qwerty12 | I like nuvoClear by Underscore |
| 10:49.10 | lardman | termsig: send it your nick |
| 10:49.38 | lardman | looks at nuvoClear |
| 10:50.08 | termsig | lardman: ? |
| 10:50.21 | lardman | :) I meant kill it |
| 10:50.45 | lardman | ...term sig |
| 10:50.55 | termsig | haha yeah sig term! |
| 10:51.08 | Gigabites | I liked NiceLite2 until nuvoClear came out |
| 10:51.24 | Gigabites | nuvoclear seems more finished |
| 10:51.27 | lardman | ok, 2 votes in favour |
| 10:51.58 | qwerty12 | qwerty121 says nuvoClear too. Does that make a 3rd vote :P |
| 10:52.05 | lardman | yay, N810 unused for a week still has full battery, well done Nokia :) |
| 10:52.10 | GeneralAntilles | Echo! :P |
| 10:52.22 | GeneralAntilles | milhouse got 12 days out of his idle test. |
| 10:52.49 | lardman | its far better than the N800, which is nice |
| 10:52.54 | qwerty12 | Eek, my N800 is really bad. |
| 10:53.01 | *** join/#maemo simon____ (n=simon@dyn167062.wlan.jku.at) |
| 10:53.13 | GeneralAntilles | It's the SD cards. |
| 10:53.21 | GeneralAntilles | Some don't idle like they should. |
| 10:53.34 | qwerty12 | But I use 48MHz MMC speed, wifi power saving off and cpu full speed with the dynamic speed changer disabled. |
| 10:53.35 | lardman | hw issue on n800 or for all ITs? |
| 10:53.51 | GeneralAntilles | It's a firmware, problem, I think. |
| 10:53.56 | GeneralAntilles | Tama^2 has investigated it more. |
| 10:54.06 | GeneralAntilles | It doesn't go into low power mode for some reason. |
| 10:54.16 | GeneralAntilles | Turning off wifi powersaving is a bad plan. |
| 10:54.21 | GeneralAntilles | Unless you have a really shitty router. |
| 10:54.28 | lardman | ~lart microb for appearing to have finished loading a page (no progress bar) but responding to taps 5s later |
| 10:54.28 | infobot | pulls out a ClueBat (tm) and thwaps microb for appearing to have finished loading a page (no progress bar) but responding to taps 5s later |
| 10:54.43 | qwerty12 | GeneralAntilles, that's me :P |
| 10:54.50 | GeneralAntilles | Why the hell would you disable cpu freq, anyway? |
| 10:55.31 | qwerty12 | With 48Mhz kernel, the cpu freq stops it from doing the full 48Mhz. |
| 10:55.52 | GeneralAntilles | Most cards wont get a lot of benefit from 48MHz, anyway. :\ |
| 10:56.12 | qwerty12 | True, my card seems to hate it. I keep on getting I/O errors. |
| 10:56.13 | *** join/#maemo sKaBoy (n=luogni@host57-218-static.90-82-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 10:56.21 | qwerty12 | With really large files when unpacking. |
| 10:56.30 | qwerty12 | Or downloading large files come to think of it. |
| 10:56.50 | lardman | GeneralAntilles: I saw your post on ITT about "no viruses"; I was tempted to ask if that was a philosophical statement ;D |
| 10:57.01 | GeneralAntilles | Ha |
| 10:57.15 | GeneralAntilles | Then why are you using it, qwerty12? <_< |
| 10:57.21 | qwerty12 | Funny thing is that it works fine when I put it into removable slot. But I had the mmc debug patch applied to my kernel and removable is forced at ~25Mhz for me. |
| 10:57.30 | qwerty12 | Because I don't know which part to patch back >.< |
| 10:58.23 | lardman | yes, nuvoclear2 looks pretty good, cheers chaps |
| 10:59.52 | qwerty12 | Any experts/developers around? Do me a favour please: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=170450 . I can't for the life of me figure out what an munmap is. |
| 11:00.51 | pupnik | ah i saw something like that |
| 11:01.10 | lardman | http://swoolley.org/man.cgi/2/mmap |
| 11:01.14 | lardman | for example |
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| 11:01.54 | qwerty12 | Ah thanks. I'm unsure as to why it works fine in ARMEL target but not on the ARM device itself :( |
| 11:02.14 | lardman | it's trying to map quite a bit of memory there |
| 11:02.51 | pupnik | it wants to make a 'shared writable mmap' |
| 11:02.55 | qwerty12 | Hmm :(. I'll take a better look at the code later. Thanks, I gtg. Bye and take care all. |
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| 11:03.47 | lardman | pupnik: do you know what it's wanting to share in there? |
| 11:04.17 | pupnik | i'd first suggest cutting down on repositories |
| 11:04.27 | pupnik | and see if it's a problem with the size requested |
| 11:04.35 | lardman | he's gone |
| 11:05.33 | pupnik | that's lame |
| 11:05.44 | pupnik | now i googled and have relevant answers |
| 11:05.46 | pupnik | https://bugs.launchpad.net/debian/+source/apt/+bug/24626 |
| 11:06.08 | pupnik | i'll post them to itt |
| 11:07.21 | pupnik | googling your error message = rocket science apparently |
| 11:09.21 | jani | maybe he was running on the device and not waiting to switch to browser because his irc client might have been bgkilled ? =)) |
| 11:14.05 | jani | btw, anyone know how shutdown stuff is handled in the devices ? obviously there's shutdown_ind message coming but there might be something else too ? Sigkill perhaps after graceperiod? just trying to think how to do state saving properly so that stuff wont go b0rk. |
| 11:14.38 | lardman | Is this for oom conditions? |
| 11:15.18 | jani | no, normal shutdown from shutdown menu. |
| 11:17.14 | lardman | ah, dunno then, I was just going to say I thought I'd seen something about oom on maemo.org in the docs |
| 11:17.45 | jani | those i have no problem with. |
| 11:19.59 | GeneralAntilles | Haha, it seems that way, doesn't it, pupnik? |
| 11:23.17 | lardman | jani: from observed behaviour, a message is sent to which the app should react and close. It appears that if this reaction doesn't occur, the desktop asks if you want to kill the app. |
| 11:27.34 | lardman | jani: you're working from this presumably?: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/tutorials/maemo_4-0_tutorial.html#System-exit-message |
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| 11:32.37 | Khertan | X-Fade_ are u away ? |
| 11:33.12 | Khertan | X-Fade_ you ve got a mail (aol horrible voice) ! |
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| 11:42.30 | pupnik | how do I wget a mms? |
| 11:42.36 | wnd | use mimms |
| 11:42.36 | johnx | replace the mms:// with http:// and give it a try? |
| 11:43.04 | pupnik | ah 'wgetpro' |
| 11:43.12 | wnd | mimms (1) - mms (e.g. mms://) stream downloader |
| 11:43.19 | pupnik | hmm thx |
| 11:43.20 | *** join/#maemo ssvb (n=ssvb___@viktor.cosmicparrot.net) |
| 11:43.27 | pupnik | hi ssvb! |
| 11:43.58 | pupnik | thanks wnd - mimms is in debian |
| 11:44.04 | *** join/#maemo lmoura (n=lmoura@mobile.cin.ufpe.br) |
| 11:44.19 | wnd | I know it is :-) |
| 11:45.29 | pupnik | woo. woooo |
| 11:46.16 | pupnik | thank you wnd :) maybe something to add to tablet |
| 11:48.07 | Navi | 7Lol |
| 11:48.28 | Navi | is wgetpro a registered copy of wget that has more features such as automatic mirror scanning? |
| 11:48.50 | Navi | kids |
| 11:49.22 | wnd | yes, it's part of the gnu genuine advantage program :-) |
| 11:49.28 | pupnik | is happy to see that the state run tv is now downloadable |
| 11:49.29 | Navi | :D |
| 11:50.48 | Navi | is happy that all of the tools that had cost money on Windows are free on Linux |
| 11:53.35 | X-Fade_ | Khertan: I'll look into it. |
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| 12:08.44 | ssvb | pupnik: hi |
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| 12:14.44 | lcuk | munches on dinner and peers in |
| 12:15.04 | johnx | lurks |
| 12:15.31 | lcuk | lobs a piece of tomato @ johnx |
| 12:16.04 | johnx | looks around...I don't think the tomato made it all the way here |
| 12:16.18 | lcuk | iTomato |
| 12:16.28 | johnx | throw harder, you have some distance to cover :P |
| 12:17.26 | lcuk | getting on topic: does anyone know anything major about the cpu govenor? |
| 12:18.45 | johnx | I *think* it's pretty much unchanged (in behavior, not low-level implementation) from cpufreq found on pretty much any linux box |
| 12:19.06 | johnx | basically there are several different governors it can use, which take different parameters |
| 12:19.16 | lcuk | i think i umm broke the govenor... my program was running as normal user in "slow" mode it was pulling about 10fps with the cpu on lowest setting. i was just playing around drawing circles for a while. when i stopped i think i must have wound it up because it was left in 400mhz mode and ran at fullspeed forever. maybe i need to tell people to wind it up |
| 12:19.27 | *** join/#maemo DaniloCesar (n=DaniloCe@nat/mandriva/x-7b1538fbe4861e70) |
| 12:19.27 | lcuk | this is with ondemand at the default 80% |
| 12:19.41 | GeneralAntilles | Haha |
| 12:19.46 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk's wind-up ebook reader. <_< |
| 12:19.51 | johnx | broke it? |
| 12:19.53 | lcuk | normally the gov will speed it up to full if i draw, but then a few seconds later it will drop back down |
| 12:20.05 | johnx | is it still up? |
| 12:20.09 | lcuk | yer GeneralAntilles thats what i was thinking |
| 12:20.10 | Navi | winds it up |
| 12:20.18 | lcuk | im not at home so i cant tell - ill check tonight |
| 12:20.33 | johnx | maybe there is a threshold for whether it should stay in "fast mode" for longer |
| 12:20.33 | lcuk | but i thought it worked entirely on a few seconds worth of data, but it seemed to get stuck |
| 12:21.14 | lcuk | i hope there is because that is a workaround - i only did it cos i was playing mario & sonic on my sons DS a few minutes before and did same thing on mine |
| 12:21.21 | *** join/#maemo wms (n=wms___@198.146.5.197) |
| 12:21.54 | lcuk | ill do prop[er testing, but just thought someone might know whether there was a speedup lock mechanism |
| 12:22.21 | lcuk | it certainly persisted beyond running the program |
| 12:22.32 | johnx | hmm |
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| 12:22.49 | lcuk | cos i came out and back in again a few times |
| 12:23.46 | lcuk | its not important. now more serious matters, linuxtag - ive got a couple of ideas for little toys which may work |
| 12:24.56 | lcuk | im gonna create this thumbprint identification/login program. it will need to run on startup and just lock out the system until my thumb has been pressed on it |
| 12:25.11 | lcuk | n00bs won't pass the test because htey will be too gentle and wiffly ;) |
| 12:25.40 | GeneralAntilles | Ha |
| 12:25.45 | GeneralAntilles | That'll fail hard. :P |
| 12:26.37 | lcuk | no it wont (especially if i know what my program is looking for pressure pattern wise) ;) |
| 12:27.00 | lcuk | and it will look good having the scanner program actually scanning down where my thumb is and displaying my picture to let me in ;0 |
| 12:27.02 | johnx | aaah, the "secret door knock" method? |
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| 12:27.26 | mgedmin | add hollywoody sound effects too! |
| 12:27.31 | lcuk | yes, but it will look all modern and biometricy |
| 12:27.43 | lcuk | YER mgedmin |
| 12:28.25 | lcuk | (i *might* even tie it in with bluetooth proximity ;) |
| 12:28.53 | lcuk | so no matter what they do if i walk away its locked out from them |
| 12:30.07 | lcuk | part two, how do i develop apps while i am at linuxtag - i was gonna get a laptop but funds have tightened up. is it simple and easy and relatively quick to install gcc and all required libraries? |
| 12:30.11 | lcuk | on the device itself |
| 12:31.17 | johnx | I don't think it's any of the three, but I may be wrong |
| 12:31.36 | lcuk | im not thinking of rebuilding the kernel |
| 12:32.00 | johnx | I know. I'm assuming you want to compile C programs linked against gtk/hildon? |
| 12:32.24 | lcuk | yes to the c programs, but its x + xv mainly |
| 12:32.36 | johnx | might be easier |
| 12:33.06 | johnx | if I were doing it, the first thing I'd do is boot to sd for this project |
| 12:33.09 | lcuk | where would i get gcc from, anyone know? |
| 12:33.21 | lcuk | ahhhh. |
| 12:33.39 | johnx | I don't think there's any way you'll fit the dev tools and the headers you need in internal flash |
| 12:33.41 | lcuk | sd because rewriting to bits of the internal card would be bad m'kay i gather? |
| 12:33.46 | lcuk | ahhhh |
| 12:33.55 | GeneralAntilles | Space issues. :P |
| 12:34.04 | johnx | aaaand, boot to sd because you will *break something badly* when you try this |
| 12:34.06 | lcuk | ok, i can get a new card |
| 12:34.08 | GeneralAntilles | The internal flash is more durable than any SD card. |
| 12:34.33 | lcuk | why would i break something - a compiler is just that and it has an include folder and a lib folder doesnt it? |
| 12:34.54 | johnx | largely version conflicts as you try to install header packages |
| 12:35.05 | johnx | also, maemo is fragile |
| 12:35.29 | lcuk | can i run gcc in a vmware_maemo session ;) |
| 12:35.47 | johnx | hmm? |
| 12:36.39 | lcuk | (that was a joke, vmware isnt avail is it |
| 12:36.45 | johnx | nope |
| 12:36.54 | *** part/#maemo leandroal (n=leandroa@150.165.63.86) |
| 12:37.02 | johnx | qemu is in testing I believe for arm *hosts* |
| 12:37.31 | johnx | actually, with the 4.0.1 sdk release the version mismatch might be less of a problem |
| 12:37.55 | lcuk | i am quite surprised though that installing dev files would break the actual system. in every other dev environment ive played with the files used for the compiler arent done as loaded runtime os modules |
| 12:38.38 | johnx | well of course they're not, but previously various downgrading of installed packages was required to make everything happy |
| 12:38.42 | lcuk | i will take a backup tonight and see how far i get |
| 12:39.03 | *** join/#maemo trbs (n=trbs@82-171-82-139.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 12:39.12 | johnx | it's not the .h files lying around that will get you in trouble, it's what you do to get foo-dev.deb to install that breaks things |
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| 12:41.05 | lcuk | thats a point, but thats a limitation of the packaging system. if i (for now) steer clear of installing *ANY* real dev libraries and just see if standard core c works then i can build from there |
| 12:41.35 | lcuk | i basically already have a full library myself that i can copy the headers and .o manually, so could continue developing using that without installing extras |
| 12:41.54 | lcuk | its only a problem them if i do need to extend that library and rebuild it |
| 12:44.08 | lcuk | hmm :) ok thanks johnx, you have given me enough to know i can at least give it a try |
| 12:44.31 | johnx | sure. as always, I look forward to hearing how it works out. :D |
| 12:44.58 | lcuk | so do i, even if the news is "its crap" at least then we will know |
| 12:45.47 | *** join/#maemo kenne (n=kenneth@200.184.118.132) |
| 12:46.11 | lcuk | goes and finds a ((someone confirm this is right:) Mini SDHC card with highest class rating i can find? |
| 12:47.18 | johnx | mini-sdhc with a high class rating |
| 12:47.47 | lcuk | excellent thx - cyas later |
| 12:47.49 | GeneralAntilles | Class 6 is the highest you'll find. |
| 12:47.58 | johnx | 'later lcuk |
| 12:48.15 | GeneralAntilles | That security thread on ITT cracks me up. |
| 12:48.47 | johnx | I gave up on reading it |
| 12:48.53 | johnx | it almost sucked me in, too |
| 12:48.58 | GeneralAntilles | meanwhile has a way with logical fallacies. |
| 12:49.38 | GeneralAntilles | You wonder where some of these people come from. <_< |
| 12:50.21 | johnx | some people are like that...they won't let their opinion be altered, no matter what evidence is presented to them |
| 12:51.07 | *** join/#maemo ramo102 (i=3e4d380b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-8906a93a3fe39cbf) |
| 12:51.35 | johnx | I used to drive myself crazy presenting bulletproof arguments, but I don't have that kind of time these days...heh |
| 12:51.49 | GeneralAntilles | Hehe |
| 12:51.55 | GeneralAntilles | Reminds me of that xkcd. . . . |
| 12:52.24 | GeneralAntilles | http://xkcd.com/386/ |
| 12:52.39 | johnx | heh |
| 12:52.52 | johnx | as soon as you mentioned xkcd I thought of that one |
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| 12:56.25 | *** join/#maemo cyberholic (n=Miranda@c181119.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 12:56.53 | cyberholic | hi everyone.... |
| 12:56.59 | johnx | hi |
| 12:58.47 | cyberholic | Hi John :) |
| 13:01.32 | cyberholic | To all those of you who are old enough to remember cassette-players *sigh*, i just finished a retro player in Flash: take a look and downlad the player at http://www.mojocafe.net/tape.swf ... you will need to press the PLAY tape :) ..... |
| 13:02.01 | johnx | ahahaha |
| 13:02.03 | johnx | that's awesome |
| 13:02.17 | cyberholic | that is totally not user-friendly *lol* |
| 13:02.34 | johnx | is old enough to remember listening to his walkman on car trips with his parents |
| 13:02.39 | GeneralAntilles | ^ |
| 13:02.43 | cyberholic | did you had the yellow sony one? |
| 13:02.47 | glass | don't need to be that old |
| 13:02.54 | johnx | nah, I had some aiwa rip-off |
| 13:02.56 | cyberholic | my parents could not afford it but that was a dream! |
| 13:03.13 | glass | cassette walkmans were pretty popular up untill cheap mp3 players |
| 13:03.32 | cyberholic | knowing that this may state me as a real geek, i just found my newewst pr0n page: http://www.tapedeck.org |
| 13:03.36 | johnx | and I miss my boombox |
| 13:03.46 | glass | boomboxes rule |
| 13:04.12 | johnx | I haven't found anything else that sounds quite as good without stepping up to a full home stereo system |
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| 13:05.44 | glass | some guys have selfmade boomboxes for parties at the univ here |
| 13:05.45 | cyberholic | the tapedeck page is just soooo SEXY. reminds me of my dad buying the maxell tapes for 10 German Marks per unit. That was a fortune at that time but my dad loved them soooo much. |
| 13:07.53 | cyberholic | glass: you know that poster where you see that boy with a boombox and a spraycan in its hands? |
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| 13:14.33 | glass | nope |
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| 13:37.12 | jani | last umf festival, there was onne chick with boombox made from "see thru" plastica, 2 big speakers, homemade amp and and nokia phone + tons of leds =) |
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| 13:39.45 | liquid217 | cyberholic: isn't the tape going in the wrong direction to be playing forward? |
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| 13:53.18 | X-Fade_ | Khertan: Ping? |
| 13:54.05 | ||cw | liquid217: no that's the right way |
| 13:54.14 | ||cw | cool flash though |
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| 14:10.03 | Khertan | X-Fade_ i'm here |
| 14:10.17 | X-Fade_ | Khertan: check your mail. |
| 14:10.28 | Khertan | check your's now :) |
| 14:10.36 | Khertan | and ... thanks ! |
| 14:11.03 | Khertan | i ll correct this in a few times today. |
| 14:11.27 | Khertan | now i understand why i ve never been able to make my maemo repository working ... |
| 14:11.51 | Khertan | as i ve never seen error in the log |
| 14:15.07 | *** join/#maemo zwnj (n=behnam@84.241.23.118) |
| 14:15.09 | X-Fade_ | Yeah, I guess that creating your own debian package creator is not that easy ;) |
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| 14:16.05 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
| 14:16.15 | X-Fade_ | Khertan: try do lintian checks, that will help you out. |
| 14:16.44 | X-Fade_ | Hi Jaffa. |
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| 14:18.03 | Khertan | X-Fade_ > lintian checks ? what is it ? |
| 14:18.10 | *** join/#maemo kcomex (n=kcome@58.213.220.20) |
| 14:18.28 | X-Fade_ | Khertan: http://lintian.debian.org/ |
| 14:18.47 | Khertan | X-Fade_ > Yeah, I guess that creating your own debian package creator is not that easy ;) specially when many things are broken due to busybox ... tar compression ... ar compression ... :) |
| 14:19.17 | mgedmin | yay, the filesystem on my n810's internal flash is BROKEN AGAIN |
| 14:20.10 | mgedmin | unless some program decided to create files on it named "ëz.ïz" and suchlike |
| 14:20.18 | mgedmin | dated from 1904 |
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| 14:20.40 | X-Fade_ | mgedmin: Ouch. |
| 14:21.25 | mgedmin | well, since it isn't the first time, I don't trust it AT ALL ANY MORE |
| 14:21.28 | mgedmin | so I don't keep any data in it |
| 14:21.33 | mgedmin | still, *ouch* is about right |
| 14:22.01 | GeneralAntilles | Did you ever get it formatted correctly? |
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| 14:22.19 | mgedmin | many times, assuming that n810's File Managers "format memory card" does its job correctly |
| 14:22.26 | mgedmin | which it seems to do |
| 14:23.50 | Khertan | maybe a corrupted device ? |
| 14:24.08 | *** join/#maemo Zic (n=Zic@ubuntu/member/zic) |
| 14:24.15 | mgedmin | that's what I assume |
| 14:24.21 | mgedmin | hardware problem |
| 14:24.28 | mgedmin | otherwise everybody would scream all the time |
| 14:25.00 | X-Fade_ | mgedmin: Did you check that the partition was the right size? |
| 14:25.07 | mgedmin | X-Fade_: yes |
| 14:25.19 | mgedmin | and then, to be doubly sure, I repartitioned it with cfdisk to use just 1 gig out of 2 |
| 14:25.53 | mgedmin | with the default partition size, I can corrupt the fs reliably by doing dd if=/dev/zero of=/media/mmc1/bigfile |
| 14:26.01 | mgedmin | when it runs out of disk space, I get a vfat error in dmesg |
| 14:26.09 | X-Fade_ | mgedmin: Try to enable logging? And see if there are errors in the log? |
| 14:26.11 | mgedmin | and the partition table also gets cleared |
| 14:26.25 | mgedmin | when I partitioned it to just 1 gig, I did not get any errors from the dd test |
| 14:26.33 | X-Fade_ | Kernel errors that is.. |
| 14:26.39 | *** join/#maemo NetBlade (n=osku@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) |
| 14:26.54 | mgedmin | but a week of use, a strange reboot today (32_wd -- i.e. cpu-too-busy-watchdog), and I see these corrupted filenames |
| 14:27.02 | mgedmin | well, a couple of weeks of use |
| 14:27.23 | mgedmin | where use = swap file + whatever the /media/mmc2/tmp gets used for (app installer?) + mytube |
| 14:27.25 | X-Fade_ | mgedmin: Heavy writing to flash causes a lot of cpu usage.. |
| 14:27.34 | mgedmin | I wasn't writing anything today |
| 14:27.42 | X-Fade_ | swap? |
| 14:28.06 | mgedmin | the nokia was idle on my desk, and then I picked it up and noticed it had rebooted an hour ago |
| 14:28.18 | mgedmin | (i've disabled sound effects so I didn't hear it) |
| 14:28.24 | X-Fade_ | mgedmin: Browser open or app installer? |
| 14:28.32 | mgedmin | no, just fbreader + xterm |
| 14:28.36 | mgedmin | hm, xterm |
| 14:28.49 | X-Fade_ | Well xterm causes the device not to go to sleep too.. |
| 14:28.50 | mgedmin | could be I did the ctrl+d trick and forgot that it doesn't actually close the window, just burns 100% cpu |
| 14:28.52 | X-Fade_ | So perhaps.. |
| 14:29.07 | mgedmin | but the battery is still at 100%, so maybe not |
| 14:29.20 | mgedmin | and the 100% cpu xterm bug doesn't make the device non-responsive, so watchdog shouldn't complain |
| 14:29.25 | mgedmin | hm |
| 14:29.42 | mbuf | what is the PKG_CHECK_MODULES name for hildon-1? |
| 14:30.37 | mbuf | I use `pkg-config gtk+-2.0 hildon-1 --cflags --libs`; but, need to translate the same to PKG_CHECK_MODULES in configure.ac |
| 14:31.11 | *** join/#maemo dhr (n=hugh@CPE00606767ed59-CM000f9fa81660.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 14:31.29 | mgedmin | which is better -- mogg or ogg-support? |
| 14:31.58 | *** join/#maemo NetBlade (n=osku@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) |
| 14:32.55 | qwerty12 | mgedmin, ogg-support works with canola too with an addon but is said to have problems with VOIP. but you can delete speex codec afair |
| 14:33.27 | kulve | and the canola support will get better soon.. |
| 14:33.51 | *** join/#maemo KevinVerma (n=KevinVer@122.169.0.21) |
| 14:33.53 | kulve | but currently it seems that mogg project broke the ogg-support :/ |
| 14:34.33 | *** join/#maemo fireun (n=ukobach@adsl-76-234-121-182.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 14:34.52 | mgedmin | yay, install both get neither |
| 14:34.55 | mgedmin | don't have canole |
| 14:34.59 | mgedmin | don't want canola |
| 14:35.05 | mbuf | never mind, found it, hildon-1 |
| 14:35.07 | mgedmin | want to listen to oggs and mp3es with the default media player |
| 14:35.14 | mgedmin | am I out of luck? |
| 14:35.15 | qwerty12 | Both will do fine then. |
| 14:35.19 | mgedmin | great |
| 14:35.23 | qwerty12 | I mean either one. |
| 14:35.24 | mgedmin | (or not) |
| 14:35.34 | KevinVerma | why doesn't i see my gtalk buddies online at times on meamo ? |
| 14:36.00 | KevinVerma | default gtalkt client , forgot its project name |
| 14:36.31 | Robot101 | telepathy |
| 14:37.17 | *** join/#maemo TPC (n=andreas@pdpc/supporter/student/TPC) |
| 14:37.30 | KevinVerma | telepathy is the framework i guess |
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| 14:39.25 | qwerty12 | Just out of question, does anyone have the acmonitor-0.1.tar.gz ? I'd be interested in looking at it, the original site just times me out. |
| 14:40.38 | mgedmin | keeps forgetting if OS2008 is bora or chinook |
| 14:41.06 | X-Fade_ | mgedmin: chinook ;) |
| 14:41.11 | mgedmin | right |
| 14:41.27 | lardman | was looking for http://maemo.org/community/wiki/codenames/ |
| 14:41.31 | mgedmin | let's hope they continue to be in alphabetical order (bora, chinook, ...) |
| 14:41.38 | mgedmin | what's a wind name starting with d? |
| 14:41.43 | qwerty12 | diablo :P |
| 14:41.47 | X-Fade_ | mgedmin: Diablo is also 2008 ;) |
| 14:41.48 | KevinVerma | anyone tried rtcomm ? does it support gtalk-voice ? |
| 14:41.58 | mgedmin | whee, but diablo isn't out yet, right? |
| 14:42.02 | lardman | the previous ones weren't though... Mistral, Scirocco, Gregale |
| 14:42.05 | X-Fade_ | Nope. |
| 14:42.08 | GeneralAntilles | mgedmin, are you living under a rock? :P |
| 14:42.14 | mgedmin | yes, why? |
| 14:42.23 | GeneralAntilles | Juuust wunderin' |
| 14:42.29 | lardman | :) |
| 14:42.35 | mgedmin | in fact, there are 81 unread rocks waiting in my google reader |
| 14:42.45 | mgedmin | and I-don't-know-how-many from mailing lists |
| 14:42.51 | lardman | too warm in my office, a nice cool rock sounds good... |
| 14:43.22 | *** join/#maemo tjafk1 (i=timj@e176219149.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 14:43.25 | mgedmin | bloody "this software is not from nokia" confirmation dialogs |
| 14:43.50 | mgedmin | installing apps is all wait-press-ok-wait-press-ok-wait-press-ok-wait-press-ok-wait-press-ok |
| 14:44.00 | mgedmin | too bloody interactive |
| 14:44.08 | mgedmin | is hungry |
| 14:44.15 | mgedmin | wants to walk to a cafe while listening to music |
| 14:44.23 | qwerty12 | That's an idea actually, patching that message out... |
| 14:44.27 | mgedmin | wants to listen to a specific song, which happens to be a .ogg file |
| 14:44.40 | mgedmin | therefore in a hurry and needs to deal with app installer |
| 14:46.02 | KevinVerma | maemo software management needs to be shaped up, each reflash takes few hours just to install packages one by one |
| 14:46.16 | GeneralAntilles | Not relevant anymore. |
| 14:46.19 | GeneralAntilles | Diablo has SSU. |
| 14:46.35 | KevinVerma | SSU ? |
| 14:46.44 | GeneralAntilles | Seamless Software Update |
| 14:46.50 | GeneralAntilles | No more reflashes after Diablo. |
| 14:46.54 | GeneralAntilles | Unless you hose your system. |
| 14:46.55 | Jaffa | Woohoo! |
| 14:47.00 | KevinVerma | hmm |
| 14:47.01 | MangoFusion_ | unless it craps up ;) |
| 14:47.22 | KevinVerma | wheen is a relase expected ? |
| 14:47.28 | KevinVerma | homepage pls? |
| 14:47.47 | mgedmin | ogg-support works not |
| 14:48.03 | GeneralAntilles | "Q2 2008" |
| 14:48.04 | Jaffa | KevinVerma: Homepage for what? Diablo release is 2Q08 |
| 14:48.11 | *** join/#maemo andrunko (n=andrunko@200.184.118.132) |
| 14:48.19 | mgedmin | specifically, ogg-support doesn't let me click on a .ogg file in file manager |
| 14:48.39 | kulve | I filed a bug report about that.. |
| 14:48.41 | mgedmin | otoh my oggs were metalayer-crawled |
| 14:48.44 | kulve | against File manager |
| 14:48.49 | mgedmin | which I didn't expect |
| 14:48.51 | *** join/#maemo Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 14:48.57 | mgedmin | seeing as how I copied them over through sshfs |
| 14:49.05 | mgedmin | yey, oggs play! |
| 14:49.06 | mgedmin | happy |
| 14:49.10 | mgedmin | out for lunch |
| 14:50.21 | KevinVerma | i don't think nokia is still in much favour of ogg support, do i figure correct ? |
| 14:51.14 | kulve | I haven't got any official comments from them. And no real comments to the bug reports |
| 14:51.20 | lardman | They won't do anything about it |
| 14:51.47 | lardman | KevinVerma: are you interested? |
| 14:52.26 | *** join/#maemo WormFood (n=wormfood@59.40.76.102) |
| 14:52.28 | KevinVerma | sure i will like to have full ogg support inbox of itos based on maemo |
| 14:52.54 | lardman | hmm, it don't think it will ever work out of the box without installing something |
| 14:53.05 | KevinVerma | even like to see if nokia can work off prop. drivers of n8x0 |
| 14:53.05 | pupnik | ssvb: any chance for some small demo that shows a working framesync? i'd like to update a pixel doubled sdl buffer at 50-60fps without tearing |
| 14:54.16 | pupnik | window is only approx 256x224 resolution |
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| 14:59.12 | opendeep | X_Fade_:I want to commit to repository ,please send me an invitation to opendeep@garage.maemo.org |
| 14:59.25 | *** join/#maemo liquid217 (n=chatzill@www.crsonesource.com) |
| 14:59.54 | X-Fade_ | opendeep: For the 3rd time orso. You have already been invited. |
| 15:00.58 | Khertan | lol :) |
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| 15:01.25 | Khertan | i'm not alone ... :) |
| 15:01.43 | X-Fade_ | Well, he doesn't respond to emails ;) |
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| 15:14.38 | lardman | Does anyone here have a2dp working on Chinook? |
| 15:15.26 | qwerty12 | I don't, unless you count the only way - the one that takes high cpu usage. |
| 15:15.29 | lardman | not that there's any reason to think it won't work, I'm just wondering about the CPU useage |
| 15:15.46 | lardman | yeah, that's the one; my understanding was that the code had been improved |
| 15:16.41 | qwerty12 | Well, the guys at INdT have said they have worked with the Bluez team and released a version that is ~70% optimised. I wonder if we will ever see it. |
| 15:16.52 | *** join/#maemo aloisiojr (n=aloisio@200.184.118.132) |
| 15:17.02 | GeneralAntilles | It's on the roadmap. |
| 15:17.10 | GeneralAntilles | So the answer is presumably, "Yes, once it's ready" |
| 15:17.14 | lardman | has it been released then? |
| 15:17.26 | lardman | even if it's not yet included |
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| 15:24.06 | GeneralAntilles | Hrm . . . interesting. lardman, do you want to go to LinuxTag? |
| 15:24.22 | lardman | I am going |
| 15:24.42 | GeneralAntilles | Should I put you forward to speak for "What's next?"? |
| 15:24.50 | GeneralAntilles | Wait |
| 15:24.52 | lardman | I'm already doing that afaik |
| 15:24.53 | GeneralAntilles | You're already speaking |
| 15:24.54 | GeneralAntilles | wakes up. |
| 15:24.55 | lardman | :) |
| 15:25.45 | GeneralAntilles | gives up again. |
| 15:26.06 | opendeep | hi lardman |
| 15:26.09 | lardman | Right, I need some help with _make_words() in the codebooks.c file of the Tremor decoder; any volunteers? |
| 15:26.14 | *** join/#maemo briand (n=brian@c-68-35-254-149.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 15:26.20 | lardman | codebook.c that should be |
| 15:27.52 | lardman | https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/test-code/dsp/codebook.c?root=dsp-tremor&rev=1&view=markup |
| 15:29.02 | lardman | hi opendeep |
| 15:30.38 | opendeep | I am getting problem while installing python-gtkmvc in sbox,it's throwing permission denied error |
| 15:30.53 | opendeep | can you help me |
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| 15:31.40 | opendeep | installed like this: fakeroot ./setup install |
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| 15:31.59 | lardman | installed what? |
| 15:32.14 | lardman | ah, read upward, silly me |
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| 15:32.52 | lardman | not really I'm afraid, I don't know all that much about Python |
| 15:34.01 | opendeep | It's OK |
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| 15:39.07 | Khertan_on_n810 | re |
| 15:39.55 | Khertan_on_n810 | what mean the number 3 in liblzo2-dev_2.02-3_armel.deb |
| 15:40.13 | lardman | sub-sub version |
| 15:40.21 | X-Fade_ | build version? |
| 15:40.40 | lardman | sounds better than mine |
| 15:40.41 | Khertan_on_n810 | does it is an obligation ? |
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| 15:41.20 | Khertan_on_n810 | (for maemo reository i mean) |
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| 15:41.26 | kulve | Khertan_on_n810: usually the 2.02 is the upstream version and the -x is increased always when a modification is done to the package by the package maintainer |
| 15:42.46 | Khertan_on_n810 | uh i always use the 0.0.x for package modification |
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| 15:43.13 | kulve | I think the meaning is stated in the debian package policy or something like that :) |
| 15:43.18 | Khertan_on_n810 | thx for the info |
| 15:43.20 | kulve | and I think maemo's policy is close to it |
| 15:43.30 | X-Fade_ | Khertan_on_n810: Yet more rules :) |
| 15:44.01 | X-Fade_ | Khertan_on_n810: You should really check out lintian. |
| 15:44.10 | Khertan_on_n810 | X-fade > i m reading again maintainer guide |
| 15:44.35 | X-Fade_ | Khertan_on_n810: Lintian will do all checks for you and tell you what you do wrong. |
| 15:44.38 | Khertan_on_n810 | but english isn't my native language |
| 15:44.52 | X-Fade_ | That is a lot easier than reading that thing over and over.. |
| 15:45.07 | Khertan_on_n810 | it s why i ve asked confirmation |
| 15:45.42 | X-Fade_ | Yeah, what you try to do is hard ;) |
| 15:45.52 | Khertan_on_n810 | where can i found it |
| 15:46.14 | X-Fade_ | http://lintian.debian.org/ |
| 15:46.32 | Khertan_on_n810 | x-fade > yes, but i hope this will help to have less independant repository |
| 15:46.53 | Khertan_on_n810 | an other tool, an other choice ... |
| 15:47.33 | X-Fade_ | If you ever want to get your packages into debian, they'd better pass lintian tests ;) |
| 15:48.43 | Khertan_on_n810 | is there a port of lintian on maemo ? |
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| 15:50.15 | X-Fade_ | Doesn't look like it. |
| 15:50.16 | lopz | hola |
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| 15:50.52 | kpel | hi |
| 15:53.12 | Khertan_on_n810 | arg. as u know i dev only on nit as i haven t time to do it on a desktop computer |
| 15:53.36 | X-Fade_ | That is a 'challenge' ;) |
| 15:53.55 | Khertan_on_n810 | :) |
| 15:54.55 | Khertan_on_n810 | it s why i ve ake pygtkeditor and pypackager :) |
| 15:55.11 | Khertan_on_n810 | to have tools to work onboard |
| 15:56.49 | Khertan_on_n810 | so i suppose that .changes file should be also homeip-0.0.5-1_armel.deb |
| 15:57.16 | Khertan_on_n810 | i mean homeip-0.0.5-1_armel.changes |
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| 16:11.33 | Khertan_on_n810 | ouch i really need to finish to hildonize glade |
| 16:11.46 | Khertan_on_n810 | it s open too many windows on my n810 |
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| 16:31.15 | Khertan_on_n810 | re |
| 16:31.31 | Khertan_on_n810 | x-fade are u still here ? |
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| 16:32.43 | Khertan_on_n810 | can i upload (maybe there is still error) package homeip-0.5.0-1_armel.deb ? |
| 16:33.00 | Khertan_on_n810 | <PROTECTED> |
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| 17:23.28 | lardman | evening all |
| 17:23.58 | Mousey | mornin |
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| 17:32.23 | WorkingOnWis1 | ae the maemo repos terrably painfully slow, so much so that dl's commonly fail? |
| 17:32.27 | WorkingOnWis1 | ae=are |
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| 17:32.49 | denny | heyla... does anyone have a link to instructions on setting the wayfinder files not to be indexed by ogg-support ? |
| 17:32.58 | denny | s/by/after installing/ |
| 17:33.07 | denny | blinks |
| 17:33.18 | denny | infobot: cookie |
| 17:33.28 | GeneralAntilles | WorkingOnWis1, there are a lot of maemo repositories. |
| 17:33.33 | GeneralAntilles | It really depends on which one. |
| 17:33.40 | GeneralAntilles | Lot of variables involved. |
| 17:35.01 | WorkingOnWis1 | I think my isp is throttling my pipe. it seeme EVERYthing I dl from any repo is pig slow. xornal, maps, fbreader, canola, gcomris, pidgin, everything! |
| 17:35.20 | Cptnodegard | Gayfinder sucks. im not paying that much for navigation |
| 17:35.23 | GeneralAntilles | Personally, I don't have much trouble. |
| 17:35.32 | GeneralAntilles | Then, don't, Cptnodegard. :P |
| 17:35.41 | Cptnodegard | there are cracks? o.o |
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| 17:36.10 | GeneralAntilles | Dunno, but my point is that if you don't want to pay for it, don't pay for it. :P |
| 17:36.13 | denny | the GPS in my N810 sucks so badly, it'd be quicker to send a carrier pigeon off to get a map from someone |
| 17:36.22 | WorkingOnWis1 | i can dl iso's to the N800 right? I'll test with an ubuntu hardy iso dl |
| 17:36.25 | denny | by the time it figures out where I am, I'll be two miles away from there |
| 17:36.33 | Cptnodegard | i want it (as maemo mapper sucks worse over here) but i dont want to pay for it |
| 17:36.36 | Mousey | apt-get install maemo-mapper |
| 17:36.51 | GeneralAntilles | Why does Maemo Mapper suck more in Europe? |
| 17:37.09 | GeneralAntilles | I was under the impression that Open Street was pretty good over there. |
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| 17:38.15 | lardman | aargh, I need a bigger buffer |
| 17:38.17 | Cptnodegard | maps vs meamo mapper maps isnt even a competition... and real images like google earth'ish stuff is waaaaay too undetailed to even see what part of town you are in |
| 17:39.30 | lcuk | lardman.buffer = malloc(9999999); |
| 17:39.38 | lardman | lcuk: :) |
| 17:39.48 | GeneralAntilles | What are "maemo mapper maps"? |
| 17:39.49 | lardman | nah, I mean to get dbg() info back from the DSP |
| 17:40.12 | lardman | lcuk: in fact I need dmesg to record more lines. Is that possible? |
| 17:40.36 | lcuk | dont know, never delved into the deeper aspects |
| 17:40.47 | lardman | I'll have to hit Google |
| 17:41.18 | lcuk | dmesg [ -c ] [ -n level ] [ -s bufsize ] |
| 17:41.24 | Cptnodegard | GeneralAntilles: open street, google maps etc... in open street i see the railways and E6.... |
| 17:41.48 | lcuk | seems possible... |
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| 17:44.23 | pH5 | lardman: CONFIG_LOG_BUF_SHIFT++ |
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| 17:44.55 | lcuk | from 14 to 17? (I think you are reading the same apges as me :P ) |
| 17:45.04 | lcuk | pages* |
| 17:45.46 | pH5 | lcuk: kernel/printk.c :) |
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| 17:46.58 | lcuk | of course you could look there |
| 17:47.21 | lcuk | knows why he has n00b status |
| 17:47.37 | pH5 | lcuk: that or google. fastest way to find out, depending on whether the keyboard focus is in a terminal window or the web browser. |
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| 17:48.38 | lardman | sorry chaps, keyboard went tits up so had to reboot |
| 17:48.49 | GeneralAntilles | Anybody else continually wondering how Nokia could've screwed up the fullscreen keyboard's enter-key behavior so badly? |
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| 17:49.14 | lardman | pH5: did you write something just before I left? |
| 17:49.25 | lcuk | since i dont use it dont see how they cocked up. but last night i was thinking the OSK would be better than the real 810 kb |
| 17:49.25 | pH5 | lardman: CONFIG_LOG_BUF_SHIFT++ |
| 17:49.31 | lcuk | first time ive ever wondered that |
| 17:49.47 | lardman | pH5: how does one use that? |
| 17:49.52 | lcuk | anyway, tea time, back later |
| 17:49.53 | GeneralAntilles | A buddy of mine with an N810 has been using the fullscreen keyboard more than the hardware keyboard lately. |
| 17:50.09 | pH5 | lardman: it's a kernel configuration parameter that determines the ring buffer size |
| 17:50.16 | pH5 | defaults to 14 (16k buffer) |
| 17:50.18 | lardman | ah, ok |
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| 17:51.00 | lardman | pH5: do you happen to know if dmesg returns all of the buffer by default? I may be able to extract some more from it I suppose |
| 17:51.50 | lardman|washing_ | _up |
| 17:52.06 | GeneralAntilles | N810 in the shower? <_< |
| 17:52.13 | Mousey | AWESOME! |
| 17:52.18 | Mousey | the ziplok bag mod |
| 17:52.20 | pH5 | lardman|washing_: dmesg defaults to 16k, so if your buffer is already bigger than that, you can gain something by dmesg -s somebigvalue. otherwise it's kernel recompile time. |
| 17:52.27 | glass | hehe |
| 17:52.31 | GeneralAntilles | Hehe, hell yeah, Mousey! :D |
| 17:52.40 | glass | ziplock mod works with phones too |
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| 17:53.13 | Mousey | double sanwhich bags, for your protection |
| 17:53.23 | Mousey | kant spel todai |
| 17:53.48 | GeneralAntilles | That's how I used to do it before I got an otterbox for canoeing. |
| 17:54.13 | pH5 | GeneralAntilles: how is wayfinder navigation on the waterways? |
| 17:54.35 | GeneralAntilles | It's not |
| 17:54.40 | GeneralAntilles | I used Google Sat. |
| 17:54.48 | GeneralAntilles | s/used/use/ |
| 17:54.53 | jgombos | GA, you use the otterbox 1900? |
| 17:55.32 | jgombos | I have the otterbox 1900.. but ima 'fraid to use it on the NIT.. I have to poke pretty deep on the plastic to contact the touchscreen |
| 17:55.46 | GeneralAntilles | 2600 |
| 17:55.52 | GeneralAntilles | It's a mildly tight fit. |
| 17:56.00 | GeneralAntilles | Works OK |
| 17:56.06 | jgombos | the 1900 is tight too |
| 17:56.22 | jgombos | I just wouldn't try using the touchscreen much |
| 17:56.41 | GeneralAntilles | I used to use an iQue 3600 with Garmin's BlueChart. |
| 17:56.55 | GeneralAntilles | Really nice for boating. |
| 17:57.22 | GeneralAntilles | But the aerial photos are better for canoeing. |
| 17:57.53 | GeneralAntilles | The 2000 is perfect as a shipping container, though. |
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| 17:59.18 | jgombos | I guess I would just use the 1900 as the shipping container too, if I had to ship it |
| 17:59.43 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah, that'd work. |
| 17:59.50 | GeneralAntilles | Expensive if you just need it for shipping, though. ;) |
| 18:00.39 | jgombos | yeah.. I managed to get 20% off retail, and that was a steal |
| 18:00.47 | jgombos | and still it was like $80 or something |
| 18:01.30 | jgombos | What's quite useful about the otterbox is the interface to ram-mounts parts |
| 18:01.44 | jgombos | I have yet to find a NIT holder that will interface with ram-mounts parts |
| 18:01.44 | GeneralAntilles | My buddy interns for the EPA during the summer down in the Everglades. |
| 18:02.00 | lardman | pH5: :thanks |
| 18:02.06 | GeneralAntilles | They've just tens of thousands of dollars of otterbox and pelican stuff down there for all of their equipment |
| 18:02.12 | GeneralAntilles | s/just/got/ |
| 18:02.41 | GeneralAntilles | should remember to turn his fingers off auto-pilot more often. |
| 18:02.53 | jgombos | great products.. not enough competition to make the prices good |
| 18:03.04 | GeneralAntilles | Hehe |
| 18:03.58 | lardman | hmm, it appears I'm already seeing it all; oh well |
| 18:04.49 | lardman | derf: you happen to be about and willing to answer questions? |
| 18:05.14 | derf | lardman: Yes. |
| 18:05.44 | lardman | I should probably dig through the spec, but will run it by you quickly |
| 18:05.48 | *** join/#maemo mazzen (n=mortel@u30-237.dsl.vianetworks.de) |
| 18:06.19 | lardman | I'm getting "overpopulated tree!" in _make_words() in codebook.c |
| 18:06.52 | lardman | I've added output info to the function, but for the time being at least, there's too much info for me to get more than the tail end from dmesg |
| 18:07.38 | jgombos | anyone from australia or NZ around here? Just wondering what you folks have out there for connectivity. |
| 18:07.48 | lardman | actually there's probably not much you can do; I need to sit down and work out how the function operates to work out what to try outputing |
| 18:09.42 | derf | Well, the relevant section of the spec is 3.2.1.1 |
| 18:10.05 | lardman | thanks, will take a look see |
| 18:12.30 | lardman | hmm, byte width of a leaf, sounds like it might be dangerous... |
| 18:13.48 | derf | Yeah... I would suspect the function you are actually having problems with is decpack(). |
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| 18:14.51 | lardman | derf: well that's useful; decpack is called so often I was going to try to see if I could nail down the data in _make_words(), but that's called far too often too |
| 18:15.36 | lardman | supper time, then I'll take a look at decpack() |
| 18:15.42 | lardman | derf: thanks for the pointer |
| 18:17.10 | derf | lardman|supper: Well, there's some fairly obvious braindamage in decpack() that you shouldn't need a debugger to see. |
| 18:17.35 | derf | Like the part where it does "entry/=quantvals" and then never uses the value of entry again. |
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| 18:18.11 | derf | I suspect it was meant to be used in the expression in the next line, but it simply doesn't appear there. |
| 18:24.22 | lardman|supper | hmm interesting |
| 18:24.49 | lardman|supper | The only problem is that I'm running the same code on x86 and it produces different (but perhaps also wrong) results |
| 18:25.40 | lardman|supper | I'll have to check the 16bit char thing for that code and see if it's producing the error; then check the function vs the current Tremor (not lowmem) code |
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| 18:28.37 | Jenn87 | hi |
| 18:29.06 | Jenn87 | I'd like to make my Nokia 770 an mp3 player. What free application would you recommend I use? |
| 18:30.04 | GeneralAntilles | Canola, Kagu, UKMP, Kilikali, mpd/MMPC, Media player, etc, etc |
| 18:30.07 | GeneralAntilles | There's tons of options |
| 18:30.18 | GeneralAntilles | The best bet is to look at them all until you find the one that suits you best. |
| 18:30.20 | Jenn87 | Is Canola free? |
| 18:30.25 | GeneralAntilles | They're all free. |
| 18:30.29 | Jenn87 | Oh OK |
| 18:30.35 | GeneralAntilles | There's maybe 3 applications on the platform that aren't free. |
| 18:30.57 | Jenn87 | I asked about Canola cause someone posted a comment saying "I use Canola everyday for listen music in the train. If it was free..." |
| 18:31.06 | GeneralAntilles | Oh |
| 18:31.10 | Jenn87 | It also says "Non-free license" |
| 18:31.12 | GeneralAntilles | They mean free as in speech. |
| 18:31.18 | GeneralAntilles | Not free as in beer. |
| 18:31.36 | Jenn87 | Which do you use? |
| 18:31.41 | GeneralAntilles | They're being stubborn for pointless philosophical reasons. |
| 18:31.43 | GeneralAntilles | Kinda depends |
| 18:31.49 | GeneralAntilles | Canola2 is probably what I use most. |
| 18:31.53 | GeneralAntilles | Have used UKMP in the past. |
| 18:31.58 | Jenn87 | OK |
| 18:32.00 | GeneralAntilles | Media player is useful for audio books. |
| 18:32.12 | GeneralAntilles | MMPC for when I'm playing networked stuff |
| 18:32.13 | Jenn87 | MPlayer |
| 18:32.15 | Jenn87 | ? |
| 18:32.20 | Jenn87 | I have lots of audio books |
| 18:32.26 | GeneralAntilles | gmplayer, you mean. ;) |
| 18:32.27 | Jenn87 | Which is what I'd like to use it for |
| 18:32.33 | GeneralAntilles | If it works for you, I suppose it's an option |
| 18:32.38 | Jenn87 | So gmplayer is good? |
| 18:32.41 | GeneralAntilles | It's just a touch . . . limited as a front-end, though. |
| 18:32.46 | Jenn87 | for Audio book purposes |
| 18:32.48 | Jenn87 | oh ok |
| 18:32.54 | GeneralAntilles | I use Media player for audio books. |
| 18:32.57 | GeneralAntilles | The built-in one. |
| 18:33.18 | GeneralAntilles | There's a patched version with better audio book support |
| 18:33.25 | GeneralAntilles | I haven't bothered investigating |
| 18:33.34 | Jenn87 | Ohhh ok |
| 18:33.39 | Jenn87 | I thought you meant MPlayer |
| 18:33.41 | GeneralAntilles | My audio books are generally chopped up into fairly small chunks, so bookmarking isn't a huge issue for me. |
| 18:33.53 | Jenn87 | My audio books are like an hour long each |
| 18:34.02 | GeneralAntilles | There's a patched version of mplayer, I should say. |
| 18:34.04 | Jenn87 | And my trips are 10-30 minutes |
| 18:34.19 | Jenn87 | so I'd have to stop or "bookmark" them often |
| 18:34.28 | Jenn87 | To continue them later |
| 18:34.57 | GeneralAntilles | Maybe look into the patched mplayer |
| 18:35.01 | Jenn87 | OK |
| 18:35.03 | GeneralAntilles | There's an audio book thread on ITT |
| 18:35.12 | GeneralAntilles | I haven't paid much attention, though. |
| 18:35.19 | GeneralAntilles | qwerty12 could tell you more whenever he's around. |
| 18:35.26 | Jenn87 | OK |
| 18:35.29 | Jenn87 | I'll check ITT |
| 18:35.31 | Jenn87 | Thanks GA |
| 18:35.38 | GeneralAntilles | Sure thing. |
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| 18:35.59 | Jenn87 | What battery life do you get on yours when listening to audio? |
| 18:36.23 | GeneralAntilles | Screen off, it's something like 8-12 hours. |
| 18:36.31 | GeneralAntilles | Maybe a little different on the 770. |
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| 18:36.40 | GeneralAntilles | I haven't run-down tested any of my 770s in a while. ;) |
| 18:38.30 | Jenn87 | OK |
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| 18:38.36 | Jenn87 | Cool |
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| 18:42.52 | lardman | derf: that line may be correct as it's in a loop |
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| 18:52.49 | derf | Ah, you're right. |
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| 18:53.33 | lardman | unfortunately that fn doesn't exist in the newer Tremor code |
| 19:03.23 | lardman | hmm, I don't understand the code |
| 19:03.33 | lardman | anyone here with experience of Huffman decoding? |
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| 19:12.50 | lardman | hmm, n is not incremented and passed to _make_words() |
| 19:14.20 | Jaffa | lardman: only theory of it |
| 19:15.40 | lardman | Jaffa: try this for size https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/test-code/dsp/codebook.c?root=dsp-tremor&view=markup |
| 19:16.07 | lardman | :) |
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| 19:19.36 | lardman | hmm, I wonder where my problem lies; it appears that the variable n in _make_words() is not altered |
| 19:20.11 | lardman | n is passed in from s->entries in _make_decode_table(); but is not altered in either of these functions |
| 19:22.22 | derf | Why would n be incremented? |
| 19:22.42 | derf | In is the length of the list, l (i.e., the number of codewords). |
| 19:22.45 | derf | *n |
| 19:23.10 | lardman | not incremented then, but jumps in powers of 2 |
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| 19:23.25 | derf | What? |
| 19:23.37 | lardman | 8, 64, etc |
| 19:23.41 | derf | I know what powers of two are. |
| 19:23.49 | lardman | hang on, let me pastebin the output |
| 19:25.17 | lardman | http://pastebin.com/m79c11a78 - DSP output |
| 19:25.32 | lardman | http://pastebin.com/m5490ad50 - x86 output (same code) |
| 19:26.11 | lardman | I was looking at the DSP output lines that go: _make_words: Entered; n=0; quantvals=8 |
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| 19:27.18 | lardman | hmm, looks like my parameters are swapped around... |
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| 19:29.10 | derf | I don't know how you managed that one. |
| 19:29.41 | lardman | no, nor do I; the code looks the same as far as I've looked |
| 19:30.11 | derf | _make_decode_table pulls one of those values from s, and the other directly from the stack. |
| 19:30.40 | lardman | yep, the function calls are identical between the two codes |
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| 19:30.46 | derf | And the value of quantvals on the stack should really be 0 unless you've somehow managed to get the mapping type completely wrong. |
| 19:30.47 | lardman | or rather calls to the function |
| 19:31.25 | lardman | well at least it explains why the code falls over; next thing is to work out how |
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| 19:34.29 | lardman | will try casting the output on the DSP side to a short just incase the dbg() function is splitting the 32bit number across 2 shorts and displaying it like that |
| 19:36.44 | lardman | yes, it can only display 16bit numbers as its params, so it was ignoring the second number I passed it |
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| 19:36.55 | lardman | so now they produce identical output |
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| 19:39.01 | lardman | identical in terms of the n and quantvals values anyway |
| 19:40.32 | *** join/#maemo tbf (n=mathias@ip-80-226-0-1.vodafone-net.de) |
| 19:41.24 | tbf | does maemo's kernel contain windows like patches, which boost i/o intensive processes? |
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| 19:42.56 | keesj | tbf: I don't know , send the source core I will have a look |
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| 19:43.54 | tbf | keesj: i don't understand |
| 19:45.06 | tbf | information about window's priority boost feature: http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms684828(VS.85).aspx |
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| 19:46.21 | tbf | well, and i believe to see similiar misbehaviour on maemo: i/o intensive processes (a verbose dbus service) seems to get all CPU cycles until it silences |
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| 19:51.34 | trickie | tbf: you can dynamically determine scheduling with the nice system call |
| 19:53.27 | trickie | i don't believe thats 'windows like' though |
| 19:53.47 | tbf | trickie: yup. seems i have to do that. |
| 19:54.17 | keesj | tbf: that "dynamic" priority in the article is similiar to what linux used yes |
| 19:55.28 | keesj | the thing is that "io" intensive tasks will "eat" up there share of time pretty soon. |
| 19:55.55 | lardman | derf: sorry for the slight sidetrack with the apparently different parameters; it's back to _make_words() |
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| 19:56.18 | trickie | scheduling in a windows kernel is probably a lot different, so its hard to say 'this feature matches that feature' |
| 19:56.38 | tbf | keesj: five ten of UI starvation due some greedy io intensive task doesn't fit any definition of soon - imho |
| 19:56.52 | tbf | s/five// |
| 19:57.08 | keesj | the unix strategy used to be give one thing very high proitiry at the time , but that has changed over time to give the system better responsiveness |
| 19:57.10 | tbf | ten seconds |
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| 19:57.34 | tbf | 'd prefer some kind of fairness |
| 19:57.51 | keesj | tbf: that sounds like a programmer errror :P |
| 19:58.24 | tbf | keesj: not really. |
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| 19:59.14 | tbf | well, if you assume it to be in the kernel... ok, agreed. |
| 19:59.22 | keesj | a ui thread is supposed to be not cpu(not talking about IO) intensive |
| 19:59.45 | tbf | keesj: man GtkTreeView |
| 19:59.52 | keesj | the dynamic proirity should go up and whenever it needs time I will get it (that is the idea) |
| 20:00.22 | tbf | that widget needs some cycles. |
| 20:00.23 | trickie | tbf: kernel has nothing to do with GTK |
| 20:00.24 | keesj | Gtk is also a good example of a non threaded program |
| 20:00.44 | keesj | under windows the system itself can redraw the window(if not resized) |
| 20:00.46 | tbf | keesj: you said "a ui thread is supposed to be not cpu intensive" |
| 20:00.58 | tbf | keesj: i only presented you the counter proof |
| 20:01.08 | keesj | yes 99% of the time it should be waiting for user input |
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| 20:02.01 | tbf | keesj: still UI processes have peak situations, were they also need quite alot of CPU cycles... |
| 20:02.05 | keesj | I am not here to defend anything merly trying to tell you what I thing is the version of the trueth |
| 20:02.13 | tbf | ...for instance when updating a tree view |
| 20:02.14 | derf | lardman: Is an int only 16 bits? |
| 20:03.02 | keesj | tbf: a tree or something else will not take more then 800x480 pixels how is that harder to draw? |
| 20:03.14 | lcuk | derf, in c int == 32bit |
| 20:03.19 | derf | lcuk: No. |
| 20:03.21 | keesj | (playing a little supid here) |
| 20:03.24 | derf | That is dead false. |
| 20:03.24 | keesj | stupid |
| 20:03.29 | KotCzarny | lcuk: depends on arch |
| 20:03.50 | lcuk | yer on here in maemo where we are sat and compiling with gcc an int is fuffin 32bit |
| 20:03.53 | tbf | keesj: yes, GtkTreeView is not the most efficient widget ever written |
| 20:04.18 | KotCzarny | lcuk: he is probably compiling for dsp |
| 20:04.31 | lcuk | ;) good point :P |
| 20:04.43 | keesj | I don't know about GtkTreeView , I don't even really know about gtk |
| 20:04.52 | trickie | tbf: but why would the kernel be responsible for scheduling the process that is using the gtktreeview |
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| 20:05.12 | trickie | beyond what it does normally |
| 20:05.46 | trickie | the widget itself, or gtk itself should be responsible for a responsive gui |
| 20:05.49 | tbf | trickie: well, a kernel has the resposiblity to properly schedule real applications |
| 20:06.13 | keesj | tbf: the proccess is probabely not I/O intensive but CPU bounded (if I understand correctly) |
| 20:06.14 | tbf | trickie: well, it cann't when the kernel is broken and doesn't give the UI process any cpu cycles |
| 20:06.48 | trickie | tbf: well is it a single process, just not async? |
| 20:06.55 | trickie | i don't know |
| 20:07.35 | trickie | tbf: but linux doesn't know if a process is UI or not |
| 20:07.58 | trickie | it can be told to determine scheduling somewhat from userspace, but it needs to be told |
| 20:08.08 | keesj | I guess this is not the right channel to get the best answers anyway. |
| 20:08.09 | tbf | trickie: well, i just say that boosting processes 'cause they cause alot of CPU load is wrong |
| 20:08.17 | tbf | at least in this case ;-) |
| 20:08.46 | keesj | the maemo kernel is able to increase speed even (freq scaling) and thus giving everybody a boost |
| 20:09.53 | keesj | tbf: so you changed your opinion , you started about I/O righht? |
| 20:09.55 | keesj | right |
| 20:10.48 | *** join/#maemo lopz (i=Gentoo-D@unaffiliated/lopz) |
| 20:12.30 | keesj | tbf: but I agree with you, maemo is just like windows 3.1 , and the app on the foreground should at least feel fast |
| 20:12.53 | tbf | keesj: well, but they cann't be fast for that scheduling bug |
| 20:13.07 | tbf | keesj: maemo uses many dbus services.... |
| 20:13.13 | trickie | i agree also, just not a good example, as the two scheduling systems are different |
| 20:13.14 | tbf | ....which means many io peaks... |
| 20:13.34 | trickie | tbf: but it works completely differently |
| 20:13.34 | tbf | ....which means many background processes get CPU time, when foreground processes should get it. |
| 20:14.14 | trickie | tbf: then renice them |
| 20:14.17 | trickie | it can be done |
| 20:16.00 | tbf | trickie: doing that right now. |
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| 20:17.21 | lcuk | though nicing processes doesnt always get things up to full speed. it might get processes taking up more of the timeslice, but if the cpu thinks it doesnt need the power it will stay down at 166mhz ;) |
| 20:21.53 | tbf | lcuk: well, guess fortunatly the horrors of GtkTreeView will convince the kernel that full cpu frequency is needed ;-) |
| 20:22.18 | liquid217 | anyone ever have any trouble with 'personal menu' launching 2 xterm windows? I am using osso-xterm 0.14 m12 |
| 20:22.44 | lcuk | tbf, so its worked for you? |
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| 20:26.34 | tbf | lcuk: somehow |
| 20:26.34 | trickie | lcuk: i know, i was just arguing that there was a way to reschedule UI process, its just done from userspace |
| 20:27.22 | lcuk | tbf, do repeated testings because what works now may not work in 5 minutes or even next run |
| 20:27.32 | lardman | derf: sorry about the delay; char = short = int = 16bits; long =float = double = 32bits; long long = 40bits |
| 20:28.33 | lcuk | trickie, just renicing doesnt work - ive got a blit routine here that kicks the cpu over its threshold only if i DOUBLE the workload. it needs to run at fullspeed but the governor wont let it |
| 20:28.49 | lcuk | doesn't always work* |
| 20:30.35 | trickie | lcuk: sure |
| 20:30.51 | derf | lardman: The int bit=... lines looks like a potential problem, then, though not _the_ problem. |
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| 20:35.19 | trickie | lcuk: could you use HAL to set the freq scaling? |
| 20:35.22 | trickie | http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/hal_howto.html |
| 20:37.18 | trickie | the chinook version seems to contain the org.freedesktop.Hal.Device.CPUFreq interface |
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| 20:38.15 | lcuk | hmmm, just looking now |
| 20:38.21 | trickie | lcuk: http://blog.homac.de/?p=42 |
| 20:38.26 | trickie | nver used it though |
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| 20:39.55 | lcuk | well i have modified the govenor and scaling directly with (/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor) and (/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/ondemand/up_threshold) in the past which does work. if this gives me a clean way to run the program which will not leave the device in a higher battery drain state than when i started that will be good. (assume the program crashes, will the setting be reset) |
| 20:41.17 | *** join/#maemo AStorm (n=astralst@unaffiliated/astralstorm) |
| 20:41.31 | lardman | derf: In my code that's a 16bit type now |
| 20:41.39 | lardman | ogg_int16_t bit=(entry>>(length-j-1))&1; |
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| 20:43.33 | trickie | lcuk: yeah looks, interesting, probably wouldn't reset though |
| 20:43.33 | derf | lardman: I was more concerned that entry and marker were 32-bit. |
| 20:44.08 | lardman | true |
| 20:44.51 | lcuk | trickie, what does appear interesting is that it appears to be a userspace api, the current governors cannot be written by default n810 user |
| 20:45.05 | trickie | could make a small request daemon that watches for exit of requesting processes |
| 20:45.35 | lardman | derf: It should be ok to make it a (dsp) long |
| 20:45.38 | lcuk | it may be acceptable to do the switching withing a small wrapper exe/script which would get called even if the main app dies |
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| 20:46.47 | trickie | lcuk: well it would be nice to have a small request daemon on the dbus also, so that processes don't clobber each others requests |
| 20:46.58 | trickie | anyway, food for thought... |
| 20:47.03 | trickie | im off, night! |
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| 20:47.27 | lcuk | the best idea would be to just allow this to be configured from the control panel and let the user choose once, but thats for another day |
| 20:47.39 | jott | lcuk: you could write your own signal handler so you will always get a more or less controlled exit |
| 20:47.41 | lcuk | thanks trickie |
| 20:51.05 | lardman | well I've forced the _make_words() fn to return after it's first invocation, and the length and entry values match for DSP vs x86 |
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| 20:51.42 | lcuk | i could (and have) write signal handler, but i just want to be as sure as possible |
| 20:52.32 | jott | lcuk: that would be really border cases :) |
| 20:52.49 | derf | Also, today is apparently my day for not being able to read code. |
| 20:52.53 | derf | bit is always 0 or 1. |
| 20:53.03 | lcuk | join the club.. |
| 20:53.04 | derf | So the type is completely irrelevant. |
| 20:53.08 | KotCzarny | :> |
| 20:53.09 | AStorm | derf: wrong :) |
| 20:53.16 | AStorm | derf: alignment? |
| 20:53.21 | lcuk | fell down stairs this afternoon :S |
| 20:53.24 | derf | It's a local variable. |
| 20:53.35 | KotCzarny | lcuk: all by yourself? |
| 20:53.36 | KotCzarny | o.O |
| 20:53.47 | AStorm | derf: still, some types cannot be accessed bit-by-bit |
| 20:53.47 | lardman | derf: ok, so no reason to change the type then |
| 20:54.08 | lcuk | yer i tripped near the top (only 4 steps) and went arse over tit and hurt my arm and legs :( |
| 20:54.15 | derf | AStorm: It's a good thing no one's trying to do that, then. |
| 20:54.25 | KotCzarny | huh |
| 20:54.25 | lcuk | (lip at the door caught on my shoe) |
| 20:54.36 | lcuk | and i went flying |
| 20:54.58 | KotCzarny | it's the moments like that when you really feel alive |
| 20:54.59 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 20:55.12 | lcuk | its moment like that that i wanted to cry |
| 20:55.13 | KotCzarny | good you didn't fractured anything |
| 20:55.14 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 20:55.16 | lcuk | it fuffin hurt |
| 20:55.24 | lcuk | i still dont know if i have |
| 20:55.29 | AStorm | it's the moment like that you wish you had recorded |
| 20:55.31 | lcuk | its swollen |
| 20:55.34 | KotCzarny | you would feel if |
| 20:55.35 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 20:55.43 | KotCzarny | hmm |
| 20:55.50 | lcuk | yer i know |
| 20:55.58 | lcuk | it is swolen but mobile |
| 20:56.13 | KotCzarny | could be a sprain |
| 20:56.18 | lcuk | most likely |
| 20:56.32 | GeneralAntilles | Hit it with a hammer and see if it hurts. |
| 20:57.24 | KotCzarny | still, you're alive |
| 20:57.42 | KotCzarny | so it wasn't that bad :) |
| 21:02.23 | *** part/#maemo jegp (n=jegp@200.26.178.71) |
| 21:04.00 | lardman | hmm, this will be interesting to try to debug |
| 21:04.08 | lardman | http://pastebin.com/m175a1104 for DSP |
| 21:04.16 | lardman | http://pastebin.com/m15675484 for x86 |
| 21:04.39 | lardman | search for the number 4559 to align (for want of a better suggestion) |
| 21:05.21 | lcuk | i'm doing science now and i am alive :) |
| 21:05.40 | lcuk | I feel fantastic and I'm still alive |
| 21:07.41 | KotCzarny | lol |
| 21:07.43 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 21:09.20 | *** join/#maemo AStorm (n=astralst@unaffiliated/astralstorm) |
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| 21:24.16 | derf | lardman: work & 0xffff =4294949584 |
| 21:24.18 | derf | Nice. |
| 21:24.37 | lardman | :) |
| 21:24.39 | KotCzarny | o.o |
| 21:24.49 | KotCzarny | endiannes fun |
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| 21:24.51 | lardman | well, I think it's supposed to come out as a signed 16bit integer |
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| 21:25.23 | lardman | I can probably fix that by fiddling with the dbg() format string |
| 21:25.57 | derf | It very nicely is 0xFFFFBAD0 in hex. |
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| 21:26.48 | lardman | :) |
| 21:27.06 | lardman | It looks like the length array has something wrong with it anyway |
| 21:27.10 | lardman | for that one case |
| 21:27.11 | flo_lap | re |
| 21:27.23 | flo_lap | re |
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| 21:33.07 | denny | somebody here linked me to instructions on how to stop the media indexer thingy picking up the navi sounds after you install ogg-support - I've reflashed and need the link again :) |
| 21:33.45 | lcuk | denny, this chan is indexed by google. entire history is available |
| 21:34.16 | denny | yah, but... picking the right keywords seems to be eluding me |
| 21:35.26 | lcuk | feels silly telling a staffer how the chan works ;) |
| 21:35.35 | Jaffa | Hmm, watching "Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles", then reading about Google intelligently spidering the deep web by trying to guess what to enter in search boxes etc: makes you worried about the future |
| 21:35.43 | derf | lardman: It concerns me that s->dec_table&0xffff is off by exactly 4096. |
| 21:36.06 | Jaffa | There's also the search engine in the logs in the topic |
| 21:36.20 | derf | lardman: But since I don't even know what you're really printing there, I have no idea what that means. |
| 21:36.25 | lardman | derf: that's an address, so probably not something to worry about |
| 21:36.26 | derf | Since I'm presuming you aren't printing the pointer. |
| 21:36.31 | lardman | I am |
| 21:36.36 | derf | Oh... |
| 21:36.43 | lardman | I wanted to see how large the allocated regions are |
| 21:37.03 | lardman | as they are "allocated" from a buffer |
| 21:37.18 | lardman | my apologies, I should have explained |
| 21:38.07 | lardman | if I do this a[i], it should be the same as *(a + i); does this account for the type size? |
| 21:38.08 | lcuk | denny, did you disable the indexer totally or just stop it picking up a few things? |
| 21:38.36 | derf | Point arithmetic always accounts for the type size. |
| 21:38.47 | derf | *Poitner |
| 21:38.49 | derf | *Pointer |
| 21:38.53 | lardman | let's hope the DSP's compiler agrees with that ;) |
| 21:39.22 | derf | The only case where that can possibly be different is if i is negative. |
| 21:39.22 | denny | lcuk: the instructions I was given guided me through setting the mime type of those files to something the indexer would ignore |
| 21:39.29 | denny | it was quite a neat trick, in a horrible sort of way :) |
| 21:39.40 | lardman | The DSP sometimes has problems accessing pointers as arrays, not altogether sure why; I'm wondering if I've hit one of those sorts of problems and it's knackered the values pointed to by *l |
| 21:40.14 | AStorm | lardman: maybe it's a race condition? |
| 21:40.25 | lardman | AStorm: no |
| 21:40.36 | *** join/#maemo cyberholic (n=Miranda@c181119.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 21:40.46 | cyberholic | Good evening everyone :) |
| 21:40.57 | Jaffa | beds. |
| 21:41.05 | AStorm | lardman: or it expects some alignment |
| 21:41.20 | AStorm | (e.g. lack of) |
| 21:41.33 | cyberholic | I have a noobish question: where are the contacts saved on my device? |
| 21:41.43 | lardman | AStorm: it works fine for 7 or so calls to the function, then goes wrong |
| 21:41.57 | AStorm | hmmhmm |
| 21:42.07 | AStorm | some counter overflow |
| 21:42.36 | AStorm | maybe you didn't do something required |
| 21:42.54 | lardman | without a doubt :) |
| 21:43.00 | AStorm | some register clear or whatnot |
| 21:43.16 | lardman | there's no reason to suspect any of those really |
| 21:43.23 | AStorm | mhm |
| 21:43.35 | lardman | it simply appears that the data I'm expecting to read is not as it should be |
| 21:43.52 | AStorm | transfer error? |
| 21:44.00 | AStorm | maybe there's some flag? |
| 21:44.12 | lardman | derf: changing from array to pointer accesses hasn't done anything, the length is still wrong |
| 21:44.20 | AStorm | we need docs :) |
| 21:44.23 | lardman | AStorm: like which one? |
| 21:44.28 | lardman | AStorm: we have docs |
| 21:44.33 | AStorm | gimme :) |
| 21:44.52 | AStorm | I don't have them at hand |
| 21:44.56 | lardman | Search on the Ti website for "c55 optimizing C compiler guide" |
| 21:45.02 | AStorm | mhm |
| 21:45.35 | lardman | spru281e.pdf |
| 21:49.32 | AStorm | jumps into reading mode |
| 21:51.49 | lardman | AStorm: The point is that the problem is in the code |
| 21:52.07 | lardman | or rather my alterations to the code to make it run on the DSP |
| 21:55.50 | AStorm | I hope so :P |
| 21:57.02 | lardman | there's no reason to think otherwise |
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| 22:04.35 | lardman | hmm, lengthlist points to an array which contains, in its latter parts, the wrong data |
| 22:05.49 | lardman | some spurious values, then filled with 1s.... |
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| 22:44.51 | lardman | derf: have summarised the position in a post soon to arrive here (I hope) https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/dsp-tremor-devel/ |
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| 22:48.59 | lardman | night all |
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| 23:21.21 | rafl | i wonder if there's an upnp media server that can reencode videos on the fly. |
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| 23:29.14 | WorkingOnWise | where can I get python-pygtksourceview I goggled it and nothing for the IT, bit I need it for pygtkeditor |
| 23:32.48 | jott | WorkingOnWise: it's the first hit when you google for: python-pygtksourceview pygtkeditor -> http://khertan.net/downloads.php |
| 23:33.42 | jott | sprays the some searchlores.org in the channel |
| 23:33.46 | WorkingOnWise | I didnt include pygtkeditor...dooh! |
| 23:34.03 | WorkingOnWise | thanks jott |
| 23:34.23 | jott | well "python-pygtksourceview maemo" gave khertans site as the second hit for me ... |
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| 23:57.34 | RedPenguin | Hey all, I'm going to get a new N810 and was wondering is it true how a website I just looked at says it has a swappable battery? |
| 23:57.52 | KotCzarny | huh? |
| 23:58.00 | KotCzarny | yes, batery is removable |
| 23:58.07 | KotCzarny | and is in fact normal nokia's battery |
| 23:58.23 | KotCzarny | compatible with some cellular models |
| 23:58.34 | KotCzarny | and is swappable in ~5s |
| 23:58.35 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 23:58.53 | KotCzarny | less if you are really fast |
| 23:59.58 | KotCzarny | look for: bp-4l |
