IRC log for #maemo on 20080311

`00:03.04`	`*** join/#maemo tjafk (n=tjlocal@e179030155.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`00:03.59`	`*** join/#maemo pdz- (n=paul@135.14.169.217.in-addr.arpa)`
`00:08.01`	`smackpotato`	`that pay later must be great`
`00:08.08`	*** join/#maemo barision` (n=barision@dhansak.collabora.co.uk)
`00:08.11`	`unixSnob`	`lol.. $1600 to get a backorder on a NIT`
`00:08.19`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
`00:08.30`	`KotCzarny`	`300 available`
`00:08.32`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
`00:08.44`	`smackpotato`	`1 in 5 dont actually pay`
`00:08.52`	`unixSnob`	`that can't be in USD`
`00:09.00`	`unixSnob`	`That must be in rupees`
`00:09.16`	`KotCzarny`	`it's all over the page`
`00:09.23`	`smackpotato`	`could be hk dollars`
`00:09.55`	`unixSnob`	`it would be a good deal, if it came w/ free delievery.. to antarctica`
`00:09.58`	`KotCzarny`	`Based in West Los Angeles, CA`
`00:10.11`	`KotCzarny`	`(from about us)`
`00:10.53`	`unixSnob`	`anyone have a coupon code for this thing xD`
`00:11.30`	`smackpotato`	`a big scam for canadians when there dollor was 70 was to take american express checks to the states and hope the cashier didnt notice`
`00:11.56`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`00:12.50`	`elb`	`... for stupid Canadians, maybe`
`00:13.10`	`elb`	`"financial fraud" is a pretty serious charge, and the US and Canada do have extradition treaties`
`00:14.11`	`unixSnob`	`i'm about to checkout.. shipping is indeed free`
`00:14.14`	`KotCzarny`	`i believe n800 didn't cost more than 500$ even preordered`
`00:15.43`	`unixSnob`	`hey, maybe they have a pricematching policy that knocks a percent of the difference off`
`00:15.49`	`unixSnob`	`that would be sweet`
`00:17.01`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`00:18.08`	`unixSnob`	`If there are any credit cards out there that still have price protection, this is the time to take advantage of it.. if you want to get back at the credit card co.`
`00:18.17`	`KotCzarny`	`:>`
`00:18.37`	`KotCzarny`	`what's a price protection?`
`00:19.50`	`unixSnob`	`I used to have one.. it's a credit card that had a feature where you could claim a refund of the difference if you found a product for less within 30 days after buying it.`
`00:20.09`	`KotCzarny`	`wow`
`00:20.13`	`KotCzarny`	`nice`
`00:20.13`	`unixSnob`	`Citibank had it for a few years, then discontinued it.`
`00:20.26`	`KotCzarny`	`but i believe it was a loss for a bank`
`00:21.09`	`unixSnob`	`their rationale was that folks would make more purchases on the card because of it, and thus make more profit for the bank`
`00:21.26`	`unixSnob`	`obviously they lost more than they gained, because they discontinued it`
`00:21.31`	`KotCzarny`	`:>`
`00:21.49`	`unixSnob`	`But I think some cards still have it.. but it's a premium feature. I don't see it on the free credit cards anymore`
`00:23.04`	`unixSnob`	`when the program was still in action, I ran up purchases at cyberrebate.com.. where everything was free after rebate`
`00:23.13`	`KotCzarny`	`:>`
`00:23.15`	`KotCzarny`	`lol`
`00:23.17`	`unixSnob`	`but the up front cost was 4 times the shelf price`
`00:23.32`	`unixSnob`	`So I got the rebate, plus the difference in price`
`00:23.47`	`unixSnob`	`essentially getting paid to take the stuff`
`00:23.53`	`KotCzarny`	`not bad`
`00:24.02`	`KotCzarny`	`how much stuff did you get that way?`
`00:24.03`	`unixSnob`	`then I sold the junk`
`00:24.04`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`00:24.33`	`unixSnob`	`probably spent a couple thousand in junk.. some if it was kitchen appliances that I kept`
`00:24.41`	`KotCzarny`	`:>`
`00:25.10`	`unixSnob`	`It was all free after MIR; and then I made an equal number of claims through the banks price protection program`
`00:25.23`	`unixSnob`	`it was a fun college hobby`
`00:25.42`	`unixSnob`	`cyberrebates eventually went out of business`
`00:25.48`	`KotCzarny`	`lol`
`00:25.52`	`KotCzarny`	`because of you?`
`00:25.53`	`KotCzarny`	`:>`
`00:25.53`	`unixSnob`	`They were probably doing a scam of some kind themselves`
`00:25.59`	`KotCzarny`	`hehe`
`00:26.17`	`unixSnob`	`it pissed me off.. because I never got the last rebate`
`00:26.42`	`KotCzarny`	`but you're on the + side anyway`
`00:26.44`	`unixSnob`	`it was a 100 dollar rebate for some cheap ass 50 cent haning fruit basket for a kitchen`
`00:26.45`	`KotCzarny`	`of the balance`
`00:26.57`	`unixSnob`	`yeah, i still came out ahead`
`00:27.45`	`unixSnob`	`you know that bank never gives me a break when I ask to have a fee reversed.. now that I think of it`
`00:27.57`	`KotCzarny`	`http://mobilereviews.freehostia.com/wordpress/?p=39`
`00:28.11`	`KotCzarny`	`n800 was meant to have gps and wimax?`
`00:28.12`	`KotCzarny`	`lol`
`00:28.17`	`*** join/#maemo Crfrod (n=Crfrod@88.214.193.26)`
`00:30.00`	`unixSnob`	`i hope my n800 breaks on the last month of the warranty.. maybe I can return it for warranty repair, and end up with one that has wimax`
`00:30.12`	`KotCzarny`	`dreamer`
`00:30.26`	`KotCzarny`	`i haven't seen any other news site mentioning it`
`00:31.07`	`smackpotato`	`i wore out the touch screen on my 770. nokia replaced it`
`00:35.03`	`KotCzarny`	`what's needed for a return?`
`00:38.15`	`Veggen`	`hmmf.`
`00:38.53`	`Veggen`	`never try to adjust your bicycle brakes for the first time after midnight the day before you plan to start bicycle season.`
`00:38.59`	`KotCzarny`	`:>`
`00:39.22`	`Veggen`	`<---ten thumbs. Now I need to see a bicycle shop before I can use it ;P`
`00:39.36`	`*** join/#maemo VimS (n=vims@dslb-084-061-052-101.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`00:39.41`	`KotCzarny`	`lol`
`00:40.03`	`KotCzarny`	`good for you nokia is quite easy to use with thumbs`
`00:40.04`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`00:40.14`	`Veggen`	`mmm.`
`00:42.46`	`*** part/#maemo smackpotato (n=user@69.158.250.136)`
`00:44.17`	`*** join/#maemo j0tt (n=j@unaffiliated/jott)`
`00:46.27`	`*** join/#maemo bowlarium (n=ppfeifer@ool-44c4f75a.dyn.optonline.net)`
`00:46.49`	`KotCzarny`	`hm. weird`
`00:46.52`	`KotCzarny`	`http://www.skype.com/intl/en/download/skype/nokia/`
`00:46.59`	`KotCzarny`	`lists 1.7.62.49.1`
`00:47.06`	`KotCzarny`	`dpkg shows 1.7.62.51.1`
`00:48.21`	`*** join/#maemo Tuco (n=Y@unaffiliated/tuco)`
`00:49.01`	`KotCzarny`	`tableteer.nokia has newer one`
`00:49.05`	`KotCzarny`	`still, weird`
`00:52.47`	`*** join/#maemo jegp (n=jegp@200.26.176.183)`
`00:57.23`	`cLin`	`is there anyway to modify autocomplete so i can add in url entries?`
`00:57.43`	`timely`	`for the browser?`
`00:57.59`	`KotCzarny`	`just type them?`
`00:58.19`	`timely`	`(or the input methods...)`
`00:58.43`	`KotCzarny`	`for the browser bookmarks seem favourable`
`00:58.44`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`01:01.40`	`*** join/#maemo moa- (n=moa_@host-69-145-242-178.grf-mt.client.bresnan.net)`
`01:03.14`	`cLin`	`yes, but i like typing`
`01:03.52`	`cLin`	`or is there something like keyword search on firefox? i can type keyword + search`
`01:04.59`	`*** join/#maemo tufei (n=Alex@cpe-70-116-11-214.austin.res.rr.com)`
`01:05.42`	`timely`	`if you're feeling really evil, you could change the "search" behavior to a javascript: url`
`01:05.52`	`timely`	`which would probably let you bunch a couple of keywords together`
`01:06.28`	`timely`	`(search is generally triggered by typing more than one word into the urlbar and triggering "go")`
`01:07.21`	`moa-`	`Does anyone know where I can find maemofuse and sshfs for os2008?`
`01:08.22`	`KotCzarny`	`moa: as a deb?`
`01:08.29`	`KotCzarny`	`or tar.gz is enough?`
`01:08.37`	`moa-`	`tar.gz is fine with me`
`01:08.45`	`moa-`	`All I can find is the os2006 debs`
`01:08.54`	`KotCzarny`	`i can give you mine binaries`
`01:09.19`	`KotCzarny`	`mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/n800/fuse_sshfs.tar.gz`
`01:09.42`	`moa-`	`sweet`
`01:09.47`	`moa-`	`Let me give those a try`
`01:11.36`	`KotCzarny`	`i should really make a proper package from it`
`01:11.46`	`KotCzarny`	`but i'm a slackware man`
`01:11.47`	`KotCzarny`	`:>`
`01:11.57`	`KotCzarny`	`.tgz should be enough`
`01:11.59`	`moa-`	`I lost them once I untared`
`01:12.05`	`moa-`	`usr/local/`
`01:12.07`	`moa-`	`:P`
`01:12.29`	`KotCzarny`	`you should untar to /`
`01:12.41`	`KotCzarny`	`that will put files in proper places`
`01:12.53`	`KotCzarny`	`otherwise you will need to move them yourself`
`01:13.08`	`moa-`	`in the process of moving them now`
`01:14.45`	`KotCzarny`	`i should've added mount.sshfs symlink, but busybox's mount seems to ignore it`
`01:23.07`	`moa-`	`can't open libfuse.so.2 shared object`
`01:23.19`	`KotCzarny`	`add /usr/local/lib to /etc/ld.so.conf`
`01:23.22`	`KotCzarny`	`and run ldconfig`
`01:23.36`	`KotCzarny`	`or just put it in /usr/lib`
`01:24.00`	`moa-`	`nevermind got it`
`01:24.04`	`KotCzarny`	`hehe`
`01:24.07`	`moa-`	`i forgot to to that`
`01:24.07`	`moa-`	`lol`
`01:27.58`	`moa-`	`fuse: device not found, try 'modprobe fuse' first`
`01:28.02`	`moa-`	`almost there!`
`01:28.11`	`moa-`	`that command doesn't work btw`
`01:28.15`	`KotCzarny`	`yes`
`01:28.29`	`KotCzarny`	`because you should do insmod /usr/local/lib/modules/fuse.ko`
`01:28.43`	`moa-`	`ah yes`
`01:28.44`	`KotCzarny`	`because you don't have /lib/modules`
`01:29.21`	`moa-`	`and voila it works!`
`01:29.30`	`KotCzarny`	`seriously?`
`01:29.32`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
`01:29.33`	`moa-`	`Yup`
`01:29.36`	`KotCzarny`	`no kidding!`
`01:29.52`	`moa-`	`many thanks to you`
`01:30.06`	`KotCzarny`	`i though i just put some random files and pretend to make it work!`
`01:30.08`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
`01:30.09`	`moa-`	`lol`
`01:30.12`	`KotCzarny`	`*thought`
`01:30.13`	`moa-`	`yea yea`
`01:31.03`	`KotCzarny`	`That's the metacrawler, something Nokia added for brain-dead users who cannot remember by themselves where they left their stuff. Unfortunately, metacrawler cannot be turned off safely (Nokia must assume all users are brain-dead), so we're stuck with the crap.`
`01:31.07`	`KotCzarny`	`'safely' ?`
`01:33.02`	`cLin`	`i just changed the name`
`01:33.34`	`KotCzarny`	`i disabled it's starting script in /etc/rc2.d`
`01:35.53`	`*** join/#maemo ajturner (n=ajturner@69.111.59.163)`
`01:41.25`	`johnx`	`KotCzarny, did you have to change anything to make it build?`
`01:41.31`	`KotCzarny`	`nope`
`01:41.48`	`KotCzarny`	`only have to do make install when building fuse`
`01:41.56`	`KotCzarny`	`i was too lazy to fiddle with libfuse`
`01:42.16`	`KotCzarny`	`so sshfs will find lib/includes`
`01:42.16`	`johnx`	`great...maybe I can just mangle the dependencies on debian's package so we get debs of it :)`
`01:42.23`	`KotCzarny`	`hehe`
`01:42.32`	`johnx`	`hey, it worked for cron`
`01:42.44`	`*** join/#maemo db48x (n=db48x@cl-76.qas-01.us.sixxs.net)`
`01:42.53`	`KotCzarny`	`i bet simply copying debian/ dir from 2006 package would suffice`
`01:42.54`	`KotCzarny`	`:>`
`01:43.05`	`johnx`	`maybe`
`01:43.13`	`johnx`	`I wonder how much fuse has changed since then...`
`01:43.25`	`KotCzarny`	`remove patches etc`
`01:43.37`	`KotCzarny`	`just leave descriptive files`
`01:43.47`	`KotCzarny`	`it really builds out-of-the-box`
`01:44.25`	`johnx`	`and this is the newest version?`
`01:44.31`	`KotCzarny`	`yes i believe`
`01:44.37`	`KotCzarny`	`downloaded it from sf`
`01:50.23`	`KotCzarny`	`if you're at it, you can probably add other fuse fs'`
`01:50.29`	`KotCzarny`	`like ntfs-3g ;)`
`01:51.10`	`johnx`	`only if it's incredibly easy`
`01:51.19`	`KotCzarny`	`could be handy for folks connecting external drives`
`01:51.20`	`KotCzarny`	`yes`
`01:51.23`	`johnx`	`I really have no use for anything except sshfs`
`01:51.27`	`KotCzarny`	`it builds in the same way as sshfs`
`01:52.29`	`johnx`	`yeah, but if it actually needs hacking to get it to build a .deb package...`
`01:55.15`	`shackan`	`haha, Darius is back`
`01:55.54`	`shackan`	`(the weird guy on the maemo-developers ml)`
`01:56.35`	`*** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com)`
`01:56.54`	`johnx`	`he's on itt too`
`01:57.10`	`johnx`	`if you missed his great wimax thread you really need to see it to believe it...`
`01:57.13`	`shackan`	`and he writes the same nonsense over and over ?`
`01:57.16`	`*** join/#maemo vivijim (n=vivijim@189.70.77.198)`
`01:57.42`	`*** part/#maemo vivijim (n=vivijim@189.70.77.198)`
`01:57.44`	`KotCzarny`	`what nonsense?`
`01:57.51`	`johnx`	`usually, different nonsense, but I've read him in both places. 90% sure it's the same guy`
`01:58.03`	`shackan`	`johnx: I'm not on itt, what's the thread called?`
`01:58.13`	`johnx`	`let me find a link`
`01:59.19`	`johnx`	`http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10694&highlight=wimax`
`01:59.37`	`shackan`	`wtf?`
`01:59.54`	`johnx`	`keep in mind, this was before USB host worked as well`
`02:00.51`	`johnx`	`he lost some credibility after that thread I think :)`
`02:02.50`	`johnx`	`shackan, this is what you miss by not reading itt :D`
`02:03.09`	`KotCzarny`	`btw. he said in the post he wants to buy 2 nokias`
`02:03.19`	`KotCzarny`	`and then people misread it as 'give'`
`02:04.08`	`johnx`	`well the wording of his post didn't help`
`02:04.14`	`KotCzarny`	`true`
`02:04.21`	`KotCzarny`	`but people got carried away`
`02:04.31`	`KotCzarny`	`by the idea of 'free n810s'`
`02:04.32`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`02:05.17`	`KotCzarny`	`also he said wimax hardware will be provided by 3rd parties, not by nokia (or n810 itself)`
`02:05.29`	`*** join/#maemo smackpotato (n=user@69.158.250.136)`
`02:05.35`	`KotCzarny`	`so it could be bt/wifi solution still`
`02:05.37`	`johnx`	`right, but at that point in time there was no known way to attach it :)`
`02:05.53`	`johnx`	`i guess through wifi...but then why is the N810 necessary?`
`02:05.54`	`KotCzarny`	`he never mentioned how he was going to attach`
`02:06.23`	`johnx`	`you're reaching pretty far to defend him here...check out the thread where he accuses nokia of distributing viruses`
`02:06.25`	`KotCzarny`	`johnx: that i do not know`
`02:06.27`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`02:06.35`	`KotCzarny`	`link?`
`02:06.36`	`KotCzarny`	`:>`
`02:06.45`	`johnx`	`one sec`
`02:08.23`	`KotCzarny`	`wow, i have hw rev. 1302`
`02:10.10`	`johnx`	`neat, I have 1301`
`02:12.45`	`johnx`	`virus thread: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11800&highlight=virus`
`02:13.09`	`*** join/#maemo ajturner (n=ajturner@69.111.59.163)`
`02:13.24`	`KotCzarny`	`do you know about changes in hw revs ?`
`02:13.43`	`johnx`	`I don't think anyone has found a difference`
`02:13.59`	`*** join/#maemo Pio (n=sean@h94.149.4.12.cable.frzr.cablerocket.net)`
`02:14.21`	`johnx`	`and for the N800 I think that 1301 and 1302 are pretty much the only releases "in the wild"`
`02:14.43`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`02:15.07`	`*** join/#maemo unixSnob (n=jg@68-29-241-227.area4.spcsdns.net)`
`02:16.06`	`johnx`	`there was a guy who had a 1202 and couldn't get it to flash, but that's all I've heard`
`02:16.32`	`shackan`	`hahaha`
`02:18.01`	`KotCzarny`	`i agree with a technut comment`
`02:18.02`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`02:18.43`	`johnx`	`I didn't read those threads past the first couple comments...`
`02:18.54`	`KotCzarny`	`http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=95558&postcount=9`
`02:18.56`	`KotCzarny`	`this one`
`02:18.57`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`02:19.11`	`*** join/#maemo cmarcelo (n=cmarcelo@189.70.25.198)`
`02:19.42`	`KotCzarny`	`http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=95581&postcount=15`
`02:19.49`	`KotCzarny`	`hehe, and this one :>`
`02:19.52`	`johnx`	`yeah, he really needs to chill out, make a new account/change his name and email address and come back in a week or two`
`02:21.46`	`Proteous`	`NEED 2 810s TO TEST OUT 3GiPHONE NOW, WILL BUY DIRECT FROM NOKIA`
`02:21.58`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`02:22.03`	`KotCzarny`	`that.. could work!`
`02:22.16`	`Proteous`	`I HAVE NO IDEA WHY I AM TELLING YOU ALL THIS, I JUST THOUGHT YOU WOULD WANT TO KNOW MY EVERY NOKIA RELATED THOUGHT`
`02:22.20`	`unixSnob`	`i went a couple rounds w/ Texrat myself`
`02:22.30`	`KotCzarny`	`NEED FIX CAPS LOCK`
`02:22.33`	`Proteous`	`heh`
`02:22.34`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`02:22.43`	`Proteous`	`CAPSLOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR AWESOME`
`02:22.48`	`johnx`	`heh`
`02:22.57`	`KotCzarny`	`CAPS LOCK IS FOR PUSSIES`
`02:23.06`	`KotCzarny`	`let me get my colors script...`
`02:23.06`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
`02:23.11`	`Proteous`	`ONLY PUSSIES SAY THAT CAPSLOCK IS ANYTHING BUT AWESOME`
`02:23.15`	`KotCzarny`	`with a figlet`
`02:23.15`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
`02:23.34`	`Navi`	`Proteous, lul`
`02:24.20`	`*** join/#maemo halley (n=halley@ip72-209-15-92.ri.ri.cox.net)`
`02:24.27`	`KotCzarny`	`hehe, end of that thread is nice`
`02:24.28`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
`02:24.57`	`halley`	`If I've removed the gdbm file for maemo-mapper, how can I convince the app to make a new one?`
`02:25.02`	`Proteous`	`%rhmf%`
`02:25.22`	`halley`	`It just starts with a "downloaded maps will not be cached" message rather than make a new file.`
`02:26.03`	`KotCzarny`	`where was that file?`
`02:26.17`	`Proteous`	`colors`
`02:26.43`	`Proteous`	`hmm`
`02:27.00`	`KotCzarny`	`halley: maybe just select new dir/file ?`
`02:27.15`	`KotCzarny`	`it probably tries to look into inexistent directory`
`02:27.46`	`Proteous`	`test`
`02:27.53`	`halley`	`The path looked good, but it does look like that worked, KotCzarny.`
`02:27.57`	`Proteous`	`I think I have blinking turned off in my client`
`02:28.02`	`KotCzarny`	`protoeous: FAIL`
`02:28.03`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
`02:28.18`	`Proteous`	`it might be blinking for some of you though :P`
`02:28.27`	`KotCzarny`	`blink`
`02:28.32`	`KotCzarny`	`:P`
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`02:33.57`	`moa-`	`well, after the fight, canola doesn't play very well with sshfs`
`02:34.07`	`KotCzarny`	`hehe`
`02:34.14`	`KotCzarny`	`it tries indexing the files?`
`02:34.17`	`KotCzarny`	`:>`
`02:34.21`	`KotCzarny`	`medialibraries suck!`
`02:34.38`	`KotCzarny`	`get some sane player :)`
`02:34.44`	`moa-`	`lol`
`02:34.45`	`moa-`	`like ?`
`02:35.05`	`KotCzarny`	`there was one, i don't remember the name`
`02:35.12`	`KotCzarny`	`but supported simple directory browsing`
`02:35.35`	`johnx`	`xmms? the player that wouldn't die`
`02:35.41`	`KotCzarny`	`hehe`
`02:35.47`	`KotCzarny`	`is there a package?`
`02:35.53`	`johnx`	`yeah, I think so`
`02:36.04`	`johnx`	`or a binary .tar.gz or something`
`02:36.08`	`KotCzarny`	`E: Couldn't find package xmms`
`02:36.14`	`KotCzarny`	`not in extras`
`02:36.17`	`KotCzarny`	`i think`
`02:36.41`	`johnx`	`google xmms n800`
`02:36.51`	`johnx`	`ah, from debfarm`
`02:37.03`	`KotCzarny`	`farm sounds omnious`
`02:37.22`	`Proteous`	`heh`
`02:37.23`	`johnx`	`they grow and harvest organic .debs there`
`02:37.40`	`johnx`	`no pesticides or growth hormones, guaranteed!`
`02:37.47`	`KotCzarny`	`i won't pollute my nokia with their poison!`
`02:38.07`	`johnx`	`what, gtk1?`
`02:38.10`	`KotCzarny`	`:>`
`02:38.13`	`johnx`	`it is a scary thought...`
`02:38.13`	`KotCzarny`	`yup`
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`02:38.20`	`KotCzarny`	`xmms1 is gtk1 based`
`02:38.42`	`KotCzarny`	`http://blog.gustavobarbieri.com.br/2007/04/19/new-maemo-player-catota/`
`02:38.46`	`KotCzarny`	`maybe this one?`
`02:38.56`	`johnx`	`hey, that looks nice`
`02:40.45`	`KotCzarny`	`looks like a quick hack`
`02:41.55`	`KotCzarny`	`http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/disq/2007/02/17/a_step_in_the_wrong_direction_the_n800_s`
`02:41.58`	`KotCzarny`	`This post has 901 feedbacks awaiting moderation...`
`02:41.59`	`KotCzarny`	`lol`
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`02:43.42`	`KotCzarny`	`hi texel`
`02:43.43`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`02:44.11`	`texel`	`Hey! =o)`
`02:44.18`	`KotCzarny`	`what's hacking up?`
`02:44.23`	`texel`	`Mm. Not much.`
`02:44.32`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`02:44.38`	`texel`	`Just bought a DSLR camera yesterday -- having lots of fun with it. =o)`
`02:44.45`	`KotCzarny`	`heh`
`02:44.55`	`texel`	`It's amazing how addictive they really are. =o)`
`02:44.56`	`KotCzarny`	`you're stealing souls!`
`02:44.59`	`texel`	`=op`
`02:45.05`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`02:45.09`	`texel`	`Nah. I take photos of landscape and still life mostly.`
`02:45.27`	`KotCzarny`	`landscape are people too!`
`02:45.28`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
`02:45.38`	`KotCzarny`	`landscapes`
`02:46.24`	`texel`	`Heh`
`02:47.30`	`texel`	`So. Many. MacPorts. Commits!`
`02:47.41`	`KotCzarny`	`macports?`
`02:47.54`	`texel`	`Yeah.`
`02:48.14`	`KotCzarny`	`oh.`
`02:48.16`	`texel`	`http://www.macports.org`
`02:48.22`	`KotCzarny`	`i don't use a mac`
`02:48.23`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`02:49.52`	`texel`	`Mm.`
`02:54.51`	`KotCzarny`	`'15 GB free. This feels very weird. This device replaces my 8 MB Palm.'`
`02:55.00`	`KotCzarny`	`wonders of tech`
`02:55.00`	`KotCzarny`	`:>`
`02:55.22`	`texel`	`Haha`
`02:55.31`	`johnx`	`really, I was just reading about MP3 players only being 10 years old...`
`02:55.40`	`johnx`	`somehow they seem like they've been around forever...`
`02:55.56`	`KotCzarny`	`:>`
`02:56.02`	`texel`	`Mm. Yeah, I equate the original iPod as a yellowing plastic relic. =op`
`02:56.03`	`KotCzarny`	`forever and everywhere`
`02:56.12`	`KotCzarny`	`your teeth can do mp3 playing`
`02:56.39`	`texel`	`Pretty close. Starting to reach into the era of Mr. Macx, methinks.`
`02:56.48`	`KotCzarny`	`original ipod had (relatively) sharp edges`
`02:56.51`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
`02:57.18`	`johnx`	`I'm still waiting for a heads-up-display to become socially acceptable`
`02:57.27`	`johnx`	`the price is almost there...`
`02:57.51`	`KotCzarny`	`mr. macx ?`
`02:58.13`	`texel`	`KotCzarny: Manfred Macx, from Robert Stross' /Accelerando/`
`02:58.15`	`johnx`	`KotCzarny, Charles Stross' Accelerando`
`02:58.23`	`texel`	`Charles?`
`02:58.25`	`KotCzarny`	`i don't watch tv`
`02:58.29`	`texel`	`Bleh -- shows how much I don't keep an eye on it.`
`02:58.30`	`KotCzarny`	`(internet tv too)`
`02:58.32`	`texel`	`KotCzarny: It's a book.`
`02:58.37`	`KotCzarny`	`oh`
`02:58.41`	`johnx`	`ahahhaa`
`02:58.57`	`texel`	`It should be made a movie, though. =o)`
`02:59.11`	`johnx`	`texel, Stross' blog: http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/`
`03:00.04`	`johnx`	`guess I should have pointed at the FAQ :)`
`03:00.09`	`texel`	`Heh`
`03:00.11`	`texel`	`Yeah.`
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`03:03.48`	`texel`	`Bah. Too many netsplits.`
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`03:03.52`	`KotCzarny`	`yeah`
`03:03.58`	`KotCzarny`	`on ircnet too`
`03:04.26`	`johnx`	`I wonder if it's still the same problem they were having before (ddos attacks)`
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`03:04.52`	`KotCzarny`	`kiddos`
`03:04.54`	`KotCzarny`	`pf.`
`03:05.01`	`KotCzarny`	`they should be spanked hard`
`03:05.15`	`KotCzarny`	`and allowe 1h internet max/day`
`03:05.16`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`03:05.18`	`KotCzarny`	`allowed`
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`03:05.32`	`texel`	`Darn. Halting State isn't an ebook yet.`
`03:05.34`	`texel`	`Bleh.`
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`03:09.35`	`KotCzarny`	`http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=81347#post81347`
`03:11.21`	`unixSnob`	`something to be careful of.. if you don't use a FAT for an SD card, then every read will also be a write (writing when the file was last read)`
`03:11.38`	`unixSnob`	`and SD chips have a limited number of updates in their lifetime`
`03:11.41`	`KotCzarny`	`it will?`
`03:11.46`	`johnx`	`doesn't noatime prevent this?`
`03:11.56`	`KotCzarny`	`does it also apply to a cf cards?`
`03:12.00`	`unixSnob`	`yeah, noatime should prevent that`
`03:12.11`	`KotCzarny`	`noatime everywhere`
`03:12.17`	`KotCzarny`	`unixsnob: df\|grep noatime`
`03:12.22`	`johnx`	`also, I'd be much more worried about swap...`
`03:12.24`	`KotCzarny`	`check if your vfat is noatime`
`03:12.25`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
`03:12.41`	`elb`	`you'll want to mount SD noatime,nomtime`
`03:12.51`	`KotCzarny`	`i mean mount\|grep noatime`
`03:12.58`	`johnx`	`not too worried about mtime...`
`03:13.01`	`KotCzarny`	`mtime is ok`
`03:13.08`	`elb`	`mtime is not necessarily OK`
`03:13.19`	`KotCzarny`	`it's the atime that's the killer`
`03:13.27`	`elb`	`(wear leveling improves the situation, when it comes into play)`
`03:13.27`	`johnx`	`by the time it's a problem the same size card will cost $5`
`03:13.34`	`johnx`	`I'll pay $5 to get mtime`
`03:13.49`	`KotCzarny`	`that too`
`03:13.56`	`KotCzarny`	`but data is priceless`
`03:13.58`	`KotCzarny`	`sometimes`
`03:13.58`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
`03:14.14`	`KotCzarny`	`if you can't get that one particular photo ;)`
`03:14.20`	`johnx`	`backup, backup, backup...and it's soo easy with sd cards too, just put it in a card reader and rsync`
`03:14.32`	`elb`	`yeah, back up flash for sure`
`03:14.37`	`elb`	`since it's unstable as all hell :-P`
`03:14.41`	`elb`	`(comparatively)`
`03:14.46`	`johnx`	`backup everything especially mobile stuff`
`03:14.49`	`unixSnob`	`so back to my point.. I was just pointing out that one need not concern w/ noatime if they use a FAT fs.. it's a lazy solution`
`03:15.12`	`elb`	`on the other hand ... you're limited to FAT's rather pathetic feature set and performance`
`03:15.16`	`johnx`	`the failure mode of "too many writes" should be for the overall size to be reduced, not catastrophic failure`
`03:15.32`	`elb`	`it is, to a point, I think`
`03:15.38`	`KotCzarny`	`yup`
`03:15.43`	`KotCzarny`	`and ext2/3 handles that`
`03:15.45`	`elb`	`but the device can only remap so many blocks`
`03:15.52`	`elb`	`just like a spinning disk`
`03:15.53`	`unixSnob`	`that would assume all the bad blocks are tracked`
`03:16.05`	`unixSnob`	`And the first failure would be data loss`
`03:16.23`	`elb`	`I think flash has read-after-write, and actually does catch these things`
`03:16.28`	`elb`	`at least some flash does; I don't know about all`
`03:16.28`	`johnx`	`hmm? a failure should only happen on write, if I understand correctly`
`03:16.53`	`johnx`	`so something like: write -> fail -> mark bad block and write somewhere else`
`03:16.58`	`unixSnob`	`perhaps`
`03:16.59`	`elb`	`and the hardware has to track the bad blocks, because the software sees virtual blocks which bear little relation to reality`
`03:17.04`	`elb`	`johnx: right`
`03:17.44`	`unixSnob`	`well in that case, noatime isn't as important as I had thought`
`03:17.45`	`johnx`	`however, catastrophic failure in mobile storage devices that are removed/inserted repeatedly is far from uncommon :D`
`03:17.54`	`KotCzarny`	`unix: it is`
`03:18.05`	`KotCzarny`	`you still don't want to overuse your flash`
`03:18.25`	`unixSnob`	`meh.. I don't care if the size shrinks a little`
`03:18.27`	`johnx`	`KotCzarny, it depends on how long you want it to live, and how much you use it`
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`03:18.49`	`KotCzarny`	`smaller probability that you will have to handle failure of some blocks`
`03:19.05`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
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`03:19.11`	`unixSnob`	`The time spent in configuring noatime is probably not worth the tiny amount of space lost years from now`
`03:19.18`	`KotCzarny`	`hehe`
`03:19.35`	`johnx`	`it's one word in fstab`
`03:19.40`	`johnx`	`or one line in a boot script`
`03:19.41`	`KotCzarny`	`still, idea of writes happening on read is not my favourite`
`03:19.42`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`03:19.53`	`unixSnob`	`well, I'm not even to the point of editing my fstab on my NIT`
`03:20.01`	`KotCzarny`	`hehe`
`03:20.01`	`elb`	`unixSnob: it will not shrink at all, and then it will fail totally`
`03:20.04`	`johnx`	`neither am I under ITOS`
`03:20.06`	`unixSnob`	`I have yet to even see the command prompt on it`
`03:20.09`	`johnx`	`it's waaay to fragile`
`03:20.19`	`KotCzarny`	`it's a linux`
`03:20.27`	`johnx`	`KotCzarny, it's a fragile linux`
`03:20.28`	`KotCzarny`	`if it crashes, it's a bug`
`03:20.28`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`03:20.29`	`unixSnob`	`elb - that's not what johnx just concluded`
`03:20.36`	`unixSnob`	`so I guess this is unsettled`
`03:20.43`	`johnx`	`hmm? concluded?`
`03:20.44`	`KotCzarny`	`i see it as a debian with binary drivers`
`03:20.51`	`KotCzarny`	`and customized ui`
`03:20.52`	`johnx`	`KotCzarny, it's not debian...`
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`03:21.03`	`unixSnob`	`elb is saying flaws are catastrophic.. y'all just said it's a write failure on a block`
`03:21.10`	`KotCzarny`	`johnx: in that matter i see ubuntu as a debian too`
`03:21.10`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
`03:21.21`	`johnx`	`ubuntu is closer to debian than ITOS`
`03:21.23`	`KotCzarny`	`i know it's not a debian`
`03:21.35`	`elb`	`unixSnob: the problem is that it interacts with things like wear leveling`
`03:21.38`	`johnx`	`right, but I don't even consider it as a debian-like thing any more`
`03:21.42`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`03:21.48`	`elb`	`unixSnob: the device can only handle so many bad blocks, before its firmware fails, basically`
`03:21.49`	`johnx`	`it acts too differently`
`03:22.04`	`KotCzarny`	`i have never played with debian so long to tell the difference`
`03:22.05`	`unixSnob`	`this is the 1st time I hear the term wear leveling`
`03:22.09`	`KotCzarny`	`so bear with my ignorance ;)`
`03:22.15`	`KotCzarny`	`unixsnob: lol`
`03:22.28`	`unixSnob`	`So how does atime become catastrophic?`
`03:22.35`	`unixSnob`	`if it's enabled, that is`
`03:22.49`	`KotCzarny`	`it's not visible on the outside`
`03:22.55`	`unixSnob`	`So it can't just mark the block as unwritable, and stop using it?`
`03:22.58`	`texel`	`johnx: 100% agree.`
`03:23.00`	`KotCzarny`	`card firmware does it internally`
`03:23.14`	`KotCzarny`	`think of it as a harddisk spare sectors`
`03:23.23`	`KotCzarny`	`and s.m.a.r.t.`
`03:23.26`	`texel`	`ITOS is far too... weird. It's like a version of Linux that has apt-get and dpkg bolted on.`
`03:23.35`	`johnx`	`texel, exactly`
`03:23.40`	`unixSnob`	`Are you saying it'll run out of spares, and become a catastrophy`
`03:23.53`	`KotCzarny`	`unix: but only in a particular 4mb 'sector'`
`03:23.56`	`KotCzarny`	`at least on sandisk`
`03:23.57`	`unixSnob`	`I would think it would just shrink once it runs out of spares`
`03:24.04`	`texel`	`unixSnob: As time goes on, the fuses in the flash will wear out and fail to repair themselves when you need to clear a bit.`
`03:24.10`	`johnx`	`Having done a web kiosk system based on Debian I know firsthand how easy it is to stray from "the debian way" when you're running out of flash space...`
`03:24.38`	`texel`	`SD cards contain a reserved set of bits that can be used later on when bits fail.`
`03:24.48`	`KotCzarny`	`unixsnob: http://www.sandisk.com/Assets/File/OEM/WhitePapersAndBrochures/RS-MMC/WPaperWearLevelv1.0.pdf`
`03:24.56`	`KotCzarny`	`read from the first hand`
`03:24.56`	`KotCzarny`	`:>`
`03:24.58`	`*** join/#maemo Tama^2 (n=me@ip-118-90-104-210.xdsl.xnet.co.nz)`
`03:25.00`	`unixSnob`	`texel - i understand that.. but I don't see why it would be catastrophic`
`03:25.03`	`texel`	`johnx: Yeah... =o)`
`03:25.10`	`johnx`	`"well, just a little change here will save me 5MB, and who really needs thing zyz anyways...?"`
`03:25.33`	`elb`	`unixSnob: the firmware can't handle it`
`03:25.51`	`texel`	`I had to take Slackware at one point and make it client-server on one server zip disk and several client disks.`
`03:25.52`	`elb`	`unixSnob: look at it this way ... you have an X block device. in reality, it has X + k blocks on it`
`03:25.57`	`texel`	`Had to be VERY picky as to how things were put on that thing.`
`03:26.05`	`texel`	`By the time I was done, it was nothing like Slackware. =op`
`03:26.11`	`KotCzarny`	`:>`
`03:26.12`	`elb`	`unixSnob: as blocks go bad, they are replaced with the k spares, and there is enough bookkeeping on the device to handle k replacements`
`03:26.22`	`unixSnob`	`right`
`03:26.23`	`elb`	`unixSnob: on the k + 1st failure ... bookkeeping runs out, and the device becomes unreliable`
`03:26.30`	`KotCzarny`	`elb: one correction`
`03:26.37`	`KotCzarny`	`it's made in 'sectors' of 4mb`
`03:26.46`	`KotCzarny`	`so EACH such sector has it's spare blocks`
`03:26.54`	`KotCzarny`	`and can't use spares from others`
`03:26.56`	`unixSnob`	`I would have thought it would just shrink at k+1 failures`
`03:27.01`	`elb`	`it can't shrink`
`03:27.04`	`elb`	`the firmware can't handle it`
`03:27.09`	`unixSnob`	`ok`
`03:27.20`	`unixSnob`	`and the filesystem doesn't handle it?`
`03:27.23`	`johnx`	`elb, thanks for the info. :D`
`03:27.24`	`elb`	`and it can't be corrected on the host, because blocks are randomly mapped, with the mapping changing on each write`
`03:27.33`	`elb`	`("wear leveling")`
`03:27.37`	`KotCzarny`	`filesystem sees series of badblocks`
`03:27.43`	`KotCzarny`	`what it does it's up to fs`
`03:27.44`	`elb`	`as KotCzarny points out, the real details are somewhat more complicated`
`03:27.44`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`03:27.50`	`johnx`	`KotCzarny, is that the wear leveling scheme that everything uses?`
`03:27.59`	`elb`	`but the bottom line is that flash memory is much more complicated than a rotating disk`
`03:28.00`	`KotCzarny`	`johnx: probably it's updated few times`
`03:28.05`	`KotCzarny`	`wpaper is from ~2000`
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`03:28.22`	`KotCzarny`	`but gives an idea how it can be done`
`03:28.25`	`elb`	`(note that modern rotating disks have some similar features, such as hardware block replacement, etc. -- but their overflow bad blocks are stable, and can be mapped out by the software)`
`03:28.58`	`elb`	`johnx: in reality, every Flash technology is slightly different`
`03:29.00`	`KotCzarny`	`elb: isn't that firmware does it too on hdds?`
`03:29.25`	`elb`	`I have no idea what SD/MiniSD actaully do in detail, or even if the standard has any requirements for how they handle such things`
`03:29.26`	`KotCzarny`	`Reallocated_Event_Count, Current_Pending_Sector, Reallocated_Sector_Ct`
`03:29.41`	`elb`	`KotCzarny: yeah, the firmware can map out bad blocks up to a point`
`03:30.01`	`elb`	`that's an artifact of the fact that disk geometry is almost never related to logical geometry any mor`
`03:30.04`	`elb`	`e`
`03:30.09`	`unixSnob`	`So the mapping table of bad blocks is constrained by k?`
`03:30.10`	`elb`	`so you wind up with sectors which are unaddressable anyway`
`03:30.15`	`elb`	`unixSnob: right`
`03:30.32`	`KotCzarny`	`unixsnob: check the capacity of your card`
`03:30.38`	`unixSnob`	`All they had to do is make the table a little larger, and problem nearly solved`
`03:30.40`	`elb`	`(which is one reason that performance of old disks really does degrade in some instances)`
`03:30.45`	`KotCzarny`	`flash chips are probably made in sizes that are powers of 2`
`03:30.56`	`KotCzarny`	`and actually you see a number a little different`
`03:31.19`	`elb`	`unixSnob: there is a tradeoff between write resiliance and wasted space ... they chose a point in that tradeoff, and simply gave you a device of declared size with a probable number of writes`
`03:31.30`	`elb`	`unixSnob: if you make the device "smaller", you can increase the writes`
`03:31.44`	`KotCzarny`	`unixsnob: bad idea`
`03:31.45`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`03:32.03`	`unixSnob`	`yeah, I was only half serious`
`03:32.14`	`KotCzarny`	`but could work to a point`
`03:32.18`	`unixSnob`	`I have some 16MB chips I could sacrifice`
`03:32.31`	`KotCzarny`	`ie. refreshing content`
`03:33.01`	`KotCzarny`	`but running badblocks -n would do the same`
`03:33.06`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`03:33.27`	`elb`	`don't flash chips auto-refresh these days?`
`03:33.30`	`elb`	`(I don't know)`
`03:33.32`	`KotCzarny`	`i don't know`
`03:33.35`	`KotCzarny`	`but probably not`
`03:33.44`	`johnx`	`refresh?`
`03:33.45`	`KotCzarny`	`ie. there's 'data retention' spec usually`
`03:33.46`	`johnx`	`hmm?`
`03:33.53`	`elb`	`johnx: flash is only quasi-stable`
`03:34.05`	`elb`	`johnx: it will eventually lose data, if you just leave it unpowered and untouched`
`03:34.12`	`johnx`	`I thought the retention spec was like 10years+`
`03:34.16`	`KotCzarny`	`yes`
`03:34.18`	`elb`	`depends on the device`
`03:34.30`	`KotCzarny`	`but after 10 years your photos can go buh-bay`
`03:34.31`	`elb`	`note that magnetic media is the same way`
`03:34.31`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`03:34.39`	`KotCzarny`	`or 9`
`03:34.41`	`KotCzarny`	`or 12`
`03:34.46`	`KotCzarny`	`it's just an estimate`
`03:34.52`	`elb`	`yeah, all of these things are probabilities`
`03:34.58`	`elb`	`10 years is probably like the 50% point or something`
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`03:35.11`	`unixSnob`	`10 yrs is pretty bad`
`03:35.20`	`elb`	`with Flash, you know that it will, eventually, be all 1s`
`03:35.21`	`KotCzarny`	`not actually`
`03:35.21`	`johnx`	`I think the test only ran for 10 years`
`03:35.31`	`KotCzarny`	`in 10 years you will buy yourself much larger card`
`03:35.35`	`elb`	`with magnetic media, it will eventually be totally random ;-)`
`03:35.36`	`KotCzarny`	`and copy all data to it`
`03:35.39`	`unixSnob`	`I read an article talking about microfiche being superior to all digital forms of archiving`
`03:35.43`	`KotCzarny`	`and forget about old one`
`03:35.56`	`johnx`	`flash around here barely has time to cool off from use... :)`
`03:36.02`	`unixSnob`	`Which is why microfiche is still used.. nothing outlasts film`
`03:36.04`	`KotCzarny`	`just remember what have you got 1-3 years ago`
`03:36.05`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
`03:36.16`	`johnx`	`just store the index on a flash card!`
`03:36.45`	`KotCzarny`	`and film doesn't need electricity to be accesible`
`03:36.46`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
`03:36.59`	`elb`	`unixSnob: film actually decays quite rapidly, too, in the big scheme of things`
`03:37.03`	`KotCzarny`	`and complicated hardware`
`03:37.13`	`johnx`	`to paraphrase roughly, "real men don't do backups, they just upload to public ftp and let the world mirror it"`
`03:37.16`	`elb`	`it just takes much longer to decay in the presence of background EM`
`03:37.23`	`unixSnob`	`Stanford still uses microfiche`
`03:37.26`	`elb`	`but ... leave it out in the light for a year or wo`
`03:37.27`	`elb`	`two`
`03:37.36`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`03:37.45`	`KotCzarny`	`how about radiation?`
`03:37.57`	`elb`	`I'm not sure how UV-resistant microfiche is, but I'm betting it's not good`
`03:37.57`	`KotCzarny`	`but that will be bad to everything anyway`
`03:38.26`	`johnx`	`meh, keeping your stuff in one storage format is never a good idea`
`03:38.32`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`03:38.36`	`johnx`	`some formats are just worse ideas than others`
`03:38.39`	`unixSnob`	`film is good in damp, molding environments`
`03:38.41`	`KotCzarny`	`keeping in separate places creates a mess`
`03:38.41`	`elb`	`basically, yeah`
`03:38.42`	`KotCzarny`	`:>`
`03:38.43`	`elb`	`it's all relative`
`03:39.09`	`johnx`	`KotCzarny, do you care about your data or its organization? (pick one)`
`03:39.10`	`unixSnob`	`not sure how equal things are in the hot, radiation smothered environment`
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`03:39.27`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`03:39.38`	`KotCzarny`	`i usually trust harddrives`
`03:39.50`	`KotCzarny`	`as long they are not overused`
`03:39.51`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`03:40.12`	`elb`	`oh man`
`03:40.15`	`unixSnob`	`folks pull old war negatives out of moldy basements and everything is still good, from what I hear`
`03:40.17`	`elb`	`hard disks are horribly unreliable`
`03:40.27`	`elb`	`unixSnob: that depends on a LOT of factors`
`03:40.33`	`KotCzarny`	`elb: i find seagate barracudas iv quite nice`
`03:40.36`	`johnx`	`your choice, but it's russian roulette with any one storage format`
`03:40.37`	`elb`	`negatives are relatively easy to destroy`
`03:40.53`	`elb`	`particularly old cellulose negatives`
`03:41.24`	`KotCzarny`	`unixsnob: but do you know what happens afterwards?`
`03:41.31`	`KotCzarny`	`after contact with air?`
`03:41.35`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`03:41.42`	`elb`	`yeah, and oxygen is a stone bitch`
`03:41.43`	`elb`	`;-)`
`03:41.45`	`unixSnob`	`Well, the govs bureau of archives chose to stay w/ microfiche for a reason`
`03:41.53`	`*** join/#maemo MoRpHeUz (n=morphbr@189.70.50.222)`
`03:41.54`	`elb`	`right -- because it's all relative`
`03:42.05`	`KotCzarny`	`and because some people never change?`
`03:42.05`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
`03:42.09`	`elb`	`if you keep microfiche out of the light, cool, and humidity-controlled, it lasts a long time`
`03:42.18`	`elb`	`so do reel-to-reel tapes ;-)`
`03:42.20`	`KotCzarny`	`and don't trust all that shiny thingies`
`03:42.34`	`johnx`	`people still manage to make a good case for magnetic tape, but it's easier to keep redundant backups on different hard disks`
`03:42.46`	`unixSnob`	`reel-to-reels have to be baked after so much time`
`03:42.46`	`elb`	`johnx: yes, but magnetic tape is far more stable`
`03:42.57`	`elb`	`and isn't hooked to a power source ;-)`
`03:42.59`	`unixSnob`	`but perhaps that's because the humidity isn't optimum`
`03:43.21`	`johnx`	`right, but it's easier/cheaper to keep mulitple online copies`
`03:43.32`	`johnx`	`in different locations`
`03:43.59`	`KotCzarny`	`unixsnob: some talk about wear leveling: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=25832#post25832`
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`03:44.27`	`dererk`	`Hi guys :D`
`03:44.55`	`johnx`	`hello`
`03:45.44`	`unixSnob`	`what's interesting about that thread is fanoush mentions that FAT is less safe, because the fat table is updated in the same place every time`
`03:45.46`	`dererk`	`I managed to get a Bluetooth keyboard for my N770 running HE2008`
`03:46.21`	`KotCzarny`	`unixsnob: i believe he was talking about cameras etc`
`03:46.23`	`dererk`	`But I can't get it run, as It requires a validation key to be input in the other Bluetooth side`
`03:46.54`	`johnx`	`dererk, don't you just type the key in?`
`03:47.01`	`unixSnob`	`he was talking about mmc cards`
`03:47.15`	`KotCzarny`	`sd is pretty the same as sd`
`03:47.20`	`KotCzarny`	`erm, as mmc`
`03:47.45`	`unixSnob`	`ah, nevermind.. wear leveling prevents that.. I spoke too soon`
`03:47.50`	`dererk`	`johnx, I typed about 100x and hitted enter, but nothing happens on the box`
`03:48.10`	`KotCzarny`	`dererk: do you have some program open that reacts to keys?`
`03:48.27`	`johnx`	`dererk, so it paired? or didn't pair?`
`03:48.36`	`dererk`	`KotCzarny, yes, 'notes'`
`03:48.50`	`KotCzarny`	`hum`
`03:48.58`	`dererk`	`johnx, didn't, but I guess it's beacose it timed out`
`03:49.00`	`dererk`	`:/`
`03:49.37`	`johnx`	`dererk, have you paired it successfully in 2007HE or OS2006?`
`03:49.42`	`unixSnob`	`what rude people in #macosx.. I describe a mac problem, and totally irrelevant to the problem, they ask "what kind of mac do you have".. well you can probably guess the rest`
`03:50.07`	`johnx`	`made fun of you for having an old mac?`
`03:50.10`	`KotCzarny`	`:>`
`03:50.14`	`dererk`	`johnx, I've just got it, didn't tryed in anything besides 2008HE`
`03:50.22`	`KotCzarny`	`how old?`
`03:50.31`	`unixSnob`	`no.. it's like "oh, you have a hackintosh.. we don't support hackintosh's"`
`03:50.44`	`KotCzarny`	`what's a hackintosh?`
`03:50.45`	`Tama^3`	`lol`
`03:50.51`	`unixSnob`	`I've seen hackintosh users get the same treatment in forums`
`03:50.56`	`Tama^3`	`"they have paid more so should you"`
`03:50.56`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`03:51.05`	`Tama^3`	`xD`
`03:51.16`	`unixSnob`	`they tried to tell me it was rules not to talking about it`
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`03:51.23`	`johnx`	`dererk, ah, from what I understand you type the key/pin on the tablet like 0000, then hit 0000 on the keyboard and hit enter`
`03:51.25`	`KotCzarny`	`lol`
`03:51.28`	`unixSnob`	`But someone removed the rule at some point.. but they enforced it anyway`
`03:51.30`	`johnx`	`it can be different from keyboard to keyboard`
`03:51.48`	`KotCzarny`	`unixsnob: remove 'snob' from you nick then`
`03:51.56`	`KotCzarny`	`if you don't like snobbish behaviour`
`03:51.56`	`Tama^3`	`mac it's a religion`
`03:51.56`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
`03:52.05`	`dererk`	`johnx, yes, I fully agree`
`03:52.06`	`unixSnob`	`not sure that would help w/ this group`
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`03:52.22`	`dererk`	`johnx, I'm going to search anything like my problem on the net`
`03:52.26`	`KotCzarny`	`still, may help with others ;)`
`03:52.45`	`dererk`	`johnx, and then came back if I got no luck`
`03:52.57`	`johnx`	`dererk, check on internettablettalk.com/forums for threads about your model of keyboard`
`03:52.57`	`johnx`	`likely someone already solved the problem :)`
`03:53.05`	`unixSnob`	`makes me want to wait for the slimeball who cornered me to come up with a problem.. so I could say "i know the answer, but I only help hackintosh users"`
`03:53.13`	`dererk`	`johnx, I will, thanks :)`
`03:53.43`	`unixSnob`	`"it's my policy" i'll say`
`03:53.51`	`KotCzarny`	`unixsnob: bad idea`
`03:53.53`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`03:54.22`	`johnx`	`KotCzarny, well, if his goal is to reduce the channel to a flame war, then it would probably work`
`03:54.31`	`unixSnob`	`xD`
`03:54.31`	`KotCzarny`	`:>`
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`03:54.58`	`KotCzarny`	`hatin' is usually counterproductive`
`03:55.11`	`unixSnob`	`The thing is, mac users identify their equipment by /color/`
`03:55.24`	`unixSnob`	`So when they ask what kind of mac I have, i say beige`
`03:55.44`	`unixSnob`	`what gave me away was I said my video card was AGP when they grilled me on that`
`03:56.02`	`unixSnob`	`guess I need to get a good cover story when I'm in there`
`03:56.07`	`elb`	`not to mention the beige macs won't run recent OSX ;-)`
`03:56.10`	`johnx`	`and ubuntu users identify their distro by animal names or adjectives...everyone is weird`
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`03:56.32`	`unixSnob`	`actually, I'm running jaguar on a true beige mac`
`03:56.45`	`unixSnob`	`but it took some hacking to get it on there`
`03:57.00`	`elb`	`yeah, they won't support that, either ;-)`
`03:57.03`	`unixSnob`	`That's a G3 w/ 128 MB ram`
`03:57.30`	`KotCzarny`	`what i like in macs is plentiness of ram slots`
`03:57.31`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`03:57.31`	`unixSnob`	`i'll tell them I bought my osx jaguar license`
`03:58.01`	`unixSnob`	`what pisses me off about the old macs was the height of the ram chips was limited by the chassis!`
`03:58.18`	`unixSnob`	`So I could only use low-profile simms, or grind the case down`
`03:58.22`	`johnx`	`I want one of the older imacs that had a half-sphere base...those looked awesome, but they're still expensive`
`03:58.38`	`dererk`	`fuck me`
`03:58.42`	`dererk`	`johnx, I got it running`
`03:58.43`	`dererk`	`:D`
`03:58.44`	`unixSnob`	`not sure what you mean by half spare`
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`03:58.51`	`johnx`	`dererk, had to type the key on the keyboard?`
`03:59.07`	`dererk`	`yes, but the enter key was REALLY strange`
`03:59.13`	`elb`	`the desk lamp imacs`
`03:59.18`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`03:59.20`	`johnx`	`elb, yeah, those`
`03:59.25`	`dererk`	`this keyboard has 2 FN keys`
`03:59.43`	`dererk`	`it was shift+fn blue+fn green+ enter`
`04:00.05`	`johnx`	`wow, that makes it twice as awesome`
`04:00.14`	`unixSnob`	`ah, yeah, nice looking case style`
`04:00.33`	`johnx`	`I wonder if I'm the only one who thinks a desk-lamp mac would make a great case mod project for a mac mini or a mini-itx system...`
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`04:01.24`	`KotCzarny`	`or as a n8x0 display`
`04:01.25`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
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`04:24.05`	`unixSnob`	`Asus is making bamboo cases -> http://www.electronista.com/articles/08/03/10/asus.bamboo.computers/`
`04:24.20`	`unixSnob`	`where can I get my bamboo NIT chassis?`
`04:24.39`	`KotCzarny`	`make one`
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`05:01.46`	`*** join/#maemo lubyou (n=lubyou@dslb-088-070-030-108.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`05:11.13`	`KotCzarny`	`http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16445`
`05:11.14`	`KotCzarny`	`hehe`
`05:11.30`	`unixSnob`	`has anyone tried to see if the browser in the NIT works well in a dd-wrt config page?`
`05:11.47`	`KotCzarny`	`you mean webif^2 ?`
`05:11.51`	`KotCzarny`	`or something else?`
`05:11.56`	`unixSnob`	`and thus w/ wi-vix`
`05:12.05`	`unixSnob`	`s/vix/vis/`
`05:12.23`	`unixSnob`	`not sure.. I don't know yet how to know what app I'm running`
`05:12.31`	`unixSnob`	`there is no About menu choice`
`05:12.43`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`05:12.52`	`unixSnob`	`and all these apps are named generically`
`05:13.19`	`KotCzarny`	`http://wiki.x-wrt.org/index.php/White_Russian_Presentation`
`05:13.46`	`unixSnob`	`x-wrt isn't the same as dd-wrt, i don't think`
`05:14.05`	`*** join/#maemo hwilke (n=hwilke_@218.sub-72-123-47.myvzw.com)`
`05:14.17`	`*** join/#maemo Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun)`
`05:14.19`	`*** join/#maemo derf (i=ptolemy@pool-71-163-166-222.washdc.fios.verizon.net)`
`05:18.01`	`*** join/#maemo hwilke (n=hwilke_@218.sub-72-123-47.myvzw.com)`
`05:19.15`	`cLin`	`anyone use kagu media player?`
`05:20.43`	`*** join/#maemo turbo (n=brian@c-68-35-254-149.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)`
`05:23.32`	`*** join/#maemo KotCzarny (n=ariel@pool-68-162-37-171.nwrk.east.verizon.net)`
`05:23.35`	`KotCzarny`	`re`
`05:25.35`	`cLin`	`damn i wished canola worked, its the only interface i can use while on the road, the others have too small buttons`
`05:26.45`	`texel`	`Which brings up a rather interesting question: does canola use metacrawler at all?`
`05:26.47`	`KotCzarny`	`medialibraries suck!`
`05:26.56`	`texel`	`s/metacrawler/metalayer-crawler/`
`05:26.58`	`cLin`	`they dont when you drive`
`05:27.37`	`texel`	`Eh.`
`05:27.43`	`texel`	`Depends on how your personal tastes are.`
`05:27.47`	`cLin`	`?`
`05:27.58`	`texel`	`Quite frankly, I'd rather have the software organize my music for me rather than do it all by hand.`
`05:28.12`	`texel`	`Some people don't like libraries -- I was one of them for the longest time.`
`05:28.24`	`cLin`	`i tried ukmp and kagu. ukmp, i dont like how the shuffling works, plus its hard to see the title of the song`
`05:28.33`	`cLin`	`kagu, i hate making playlsit, i just need a shuffle all option`
`05:28.49`	`texel`	`Then I got really busy and didn't have /time/ to be crazy particular to maintain the organization of my music myself.`
`05:29.26`	`cLin`	`actually, xmms was nice, just the always on top bug bothered me`
`05:29.38`	`KotCzarny`	`texel: it's easy`
`05:29.46`	`KotCzarny`	`simply don't put all mp3s in one dir`
`05:29.47`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
`05:30.10`	`KotCzarny`	`clin: it can be a feature ;)`
`05:30.17`	`*** join/#maemo Blain_ (n=demonbob@24-158-220-75.dhcp.slid.la.charter.com)`
`05:30.19`	`cLin`	`which one?`
`05:30.25`	`KotCzarny`	`always on top`
`05:30.52`	`cLin`	`no its not`
`05:30.56`	`cLin`	`i thought so too`
`05:31.02`	`cLin`	`but turning it on or off does nothing`
`05:31.06`	`cLin`	`its a bug i think`
`05:31.12`	`KotCzarny`	`minimization doesn't work?`
`05:31.28`	`cLin`	`thats a bug too`
`05:31.37`	`cLin`	`it minimizes to nowhere`
`05:31.38`	`cLin`	`haha`
`05:31.43`	`KotCzarny`	`hildonization`
`05:31.48`	`KotCzarny`	`simple to fix`
`05:32.00`	`cLin`	`maybe for you :P`
`05:32.04`	`KotCzarny`	`sometimes it's enough to create xmms.desktop file`
`05:32.06`	`*** join/#maemo hrw\|gone_ (n=hrw@ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl)`
`05:32.13`	`KotCzarny`	`no recompiling necessary`
`05:32.14`	`KotCzarny`	`:P`
`05:40.13`	`KotCzarny`	`http://gizmodo.com/351518/vista-box-needs-instructions-to-open`
`05:40.14`	`KotCzarny`	`lol`
`05:40.34`	`cLin`	`lol`
`05:42.00`	`KotCzarny`	`http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=86816`
`05:42.00`	`KotCzarny`	`lol2`
`05:45.45`	`*** join/#maemo Cptnodegard (n=none@unaffiliated/cptnodegard)`
`05:46.19`	`cLin`	`lol`
`05:46.28`	`cLin`	`why are people so stupid :(`
`05:46.45`	`KotCzarny`	`that's ok, as long they can be milked`
`05:46.52`	`KotCzarny`	`it's even better then`
`05:55.24`	`unixSnob`	`now whenever someone asks for help in #macosx, I say.. "that depends.. are you running a hackintosh.. we can only answer your problem if you're not running hackintosh"`
`05:55.30`	`unixSnob`	`I need a bot to do that for me`
`05:55.35`	`KotCzarny`	`pf.`
`05:55.41`	`unixSnob`	`just to rub that shit in`
`05:55.48`	`KotCzarny`	`won't work`
`05:55.58`	`KotCzarny`	`and you will get banned`
`05:56.00`	`KotCzarny`	`:>`
`05:56.36`	`unixSnob`	`why should I get banned? I'm making sure the rules are being followed, right ;)`
`05:56.47`	`Tama^3`	`it's your fault, your actions made you impure and for that you shall pay xD`
`05:56.48`	`unixSnob`	`I'm on the right side of the rules ;)`
`05:58.04`	`*** join/#maemo philipl (i=1000@c-76-21-109-3.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`05:58.11`	`unixSnob`	`I'll get the bot to say "/me writes from his hackintosh" before I quote the rule xD`
`05:58.49`	`*** join/#maemo NetBlade (n=osku@a91-152-105-218.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`05:59.58`	`lopz`	`bye`
`06:00.15`	`*** join/#maemo NetBlade_ (n=osku@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net)`
`06:04.14`	`ds3`	`streaming TV on the N800 is so neat`
`06:04.42`	`KotCzarny`	`and eats your battery like crazy`
`06:05.34`	`ds3`	`don't matter... worse case, I'll put my 12V 17AH battery in a backpack and.... :)`
`06:05.48`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`06:06.24`	`ds3`	`only way it could be better is if it had NTSC/TV out`
`06:06.47`	`KotCzarny`	`yeah, 'look at all this device features! and how small it is! - what do you have in that backpack? - a battery for it'`
`06:06.48`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`06:07.45`	`ds3`	`it looks like I can do at least 1 to 1.5 hours per charge`
`06:07.54`	`KotCzarny`	`more`
`06:08.00`	`ds3`	`and with an external pack the size of the 800, it'll double that`
`06:08.07`	`KotCzarny`	`more`
`06:08.09`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`06:08.10`	`ds3`	`so it isn't that horrible`
`06:08.34`	`KotCzarny`	`internal batt is 3.7V 1.5Ah`
`06:08.52`	`KotCzarny`	`3xAA will give you additional 2.5-3Ah`
`06:08.53`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`06:08.58`	`ds3`	`those small 2.5" LCDs TV with 4AA's don't last that long either`
`06:09.25`	`ds3`	`not really unless, alkalines have too high of an internal resistance to give you that full charge`
`06:09.37`	`KotCzarny`	`not alkalines`
`06:09.44`	`KotCzarny`	`rechargeable`
`06:09.49`	`KotCzarny`	`akkus`
`06:09.50`	`ds3`	`NiMHs are about 2.2Ah`
`06:09.51`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`06:09.56`	`KotCzarny`	`more`
`06:10.10`	`KotCzarny`	`i have bough 2.5Ah few months ago in riteaid`
`06:10.10`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`06:10.21`	`ds3`	`that's labeled, measure it!`
`06:10.26`	`KotCzarny`	`i agree`
`06:10.28`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`06:10.38`	`KotCzarny`	`but those were duracells`
`06:10.54`	`ds3`	`also depends on your charger but regardless`
`06:10.58`	`KotCzarny`	`so i suspect nothing more than 10% off`
`06:11.26`	`ds3`	`2.5 - 0.25 = 2.25Ah... didn't I say about 2.2Ah? :)`
`06:11.35`	`KotCzarny`	`but still, 2.2Ah is ~1.5 more than internal battery`
`06:12.13`	`ds3`	`but then you loose another 10% or so going through the charger circuit`
`06:12.17`	`KotCzarny`	`and 3xAA isn't too big physically`
`06:12.36`	`ds3`	`3xAA can't charge directly, you'll have to step it up to 5.5V so that's another 10% there`
`06:12.52`	`KotCzarny`	`just add fourth then`
`06:12.53`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`06:12.55`	`ds3`	`all considered, it is about the capacity of the internal cell`
`06:13.02`	`KotCzarny`	`so no stepping up`
`06:13.08`	`ds3`	`4.8V won't charge, I tried`
`06:13.16`	`KotCzarny`	`hum?`
`06:13.19`	`KotCzarny`	`weird`
`06:13.33`	`*** join/#maemo behdad (n=behdad@p54BEB2ED.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`06:13.34`	`ds3`	`seem to be common to most "recent" Nokia devices`
`06:14.30`	`ds3`	`5xAA's might do it but donno what's the upper tolerance`
`06:14.32`	`sxpert`	`wierd... 1 Li-ion cell is 3.7v`
`06:14.37`	`*** join/#maemo behdad (n=behdad@p54BEB2ED.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`06:14.59`	`sxpert`	`or mebbe it's 2 cells in series, which would be 7.4v`
`06:15.00`	`KotCzarny`	`may be some control circuit?`
`06:15.16`	`KotCzarny`	`sxpert: charger is 5V`
`06:15.22`	`KotCzarny`	`(rated)`
`06:15.33`	`ds3`	`think so. plugging in 5V causes it to see a charger but then it puts up a message saying "Not Charging"`
`06:15.52`	`sxpert`	`it's not exactly 5.`
`06:15.57`	`KotCzarny`	`i know`
`06:15.59`	`sxpert`	`it's more like 5.1 our 5.2`
`06:16.01`	`sxpert`	`or something`
`06:16.13`	`ds3`	`for me the threshold seems to be 5.5V`
`06:16.30`	`KotCzarny`	`anyone with variable dc supply?`
`06:16.31`	`KotCzarny`	`:>`
`06:16.34`	`sxpert`	`then putting in 6 volts should do`
`06:16.55`	`ds3`	`should if it doesn't burn out ;)`
`06:17.19`	`KotCzarny`	`and that's a possibility..`
`06:17.22`	`Tama^3`	`there are specs for the charging voltage available from Nokia`
`06:17.36`	`ds3`	`Tama^3: got link?`
`06:18.03`	`Tama^3`	`will not be easy to find it again, I will try. hold on`
`06:18.44`	`ds3`	`didn't think they made that info public`
`06:19.06`	`sxpert`	`alternatively, you can hack up a car charger :-)`
`06:19.16`	`ds3`	`assuming it works`
`06:19.23`	`ds3`	`the dollar store Nokia chargers don't charge`
`06:19.26`	`sxpert`	`hopefully, they'll switch to USB charging at some point`
`06:20.56`	`KotCzarny`	`'hey, you're sucking my battery!'`
`06:20.57`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
`06:21.05`	`ds3`	`a direct solar charger or a crank charger would be nice`
`06:21.47`	`sxpert`	`I believe there are chinese crank or solar chargers for nokia phones...`
`06:22.41`	`ds3`	`the lack of transreflective LCD does hamper the solar charging a bit :/`
`06:23.05`	`sxpert`	`haha... integrating the charger in the screen. now that's an idea`
`06:23.28`	`ds3`	`no, using a solar charger means you have to be outside...`
`06:23.28`	`KotCzarny`	`ds3: n810 has transreflective lcd`
`06:23.52`	`ds3`	`KotCzarny: i am not giving up my 2 full size SD slots!`
`06:23.55`	`KotCzarny`	`:>`
`06:23.57`	`KotCzarny`	`i know`
`06:24.04`	`KotCzarny`	`it's inferios to n800`
`06:24.14`	`KotCzarny`	`inferior`
`06:24.31`	`*** join/#maemo netx (n=rlange@osiris.darkempire.org)`
`06:24.57`	`Tama^3`	`cannot find it arrgh`
`06:25.03`	`sxpert`	`doesn't care much for 2 slots anyways`
`06:25.06`	`KotCzarny`	`also from what i have read n810 screen isn't that nice in the sun`
`06:25.06`	`ds3`	`i really need to finish up setting up printing`
`06:25.17`	`ds3`	`Tama^3: thanks for trying`
`06:25.19`	`KotCzarny`	`and without sun the colors are 'washed'`
`06:25.28`	`sxpert`	`KotCzarny, works for me in the car`
`06:25.39`	`ds3`	`wonder if there is a hack for microb to add a printing option...`
`06:25.45`	`KotCzarny`	`probably`
`06:25.46`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`06:25.56`	`KotCzarny`	`tried pressing ctrl-p ?`
`06:25.57`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`06:25.57`	`pupnik`	`i really hate the maemo/hildon file chooser`
`06:26.18`	`cLin`	`KotCzarny: ho do you add Alt to the list of shortcuts on xterm?`
`06:26.20`	`pupnik`	`takes way too long to build list of subdirectory entries`
`06:26.28`	`cLin`	`i tried putting in Alt as the value but it didn't work`
`06:26.41`	`sxpert`	`hmmm... still can't post stuff from a bluetooth phone to a web site...`
`06:26.42`	`unixSnob`	`Tama, just curious about that "3" in your handle.. what does that mean?`
`06:26.54`	`sxpert`	`that bug is erh, 2 years old`
`06:27.06`	`sxpert`	`gives some stupid obex error of some kind`
`06:27.12`	`KotCzarny`	`clin: i don't use xterm`
`06:27.16`	`cLin`	`bah`
`06:27.21`	`KotCzarny`	`..yet`
`06:27.22`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`06:27.36`	`Tama^3`	`unixSnob: nothing Tama was already taken, I registered Tama^2 and tama^3 is a backup`
`06:27.49`	`unixSnob`	`ah`
`06:28.31`	`unixSnob`	`I guess I'm just a perv.. I thought that was code for 'i have big tits' sorry, no offense`
`06:28.47`	`KotCzarny`	`that nokia's charger issue is a drag`
`06:28.48`	`Tama^3`	`lol, none taken`
`06:28.51`	`ds3`	`checked in case you were right... no, ctrl-p does not do it :P`
`06:28.57`	`KotCzarny`	`they did it on purpose :/`
`06:29.12`	`KotCzarny`	`ds3: hack in opera?`
`06:29.14`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`06:29.38`	`ds3`	`how does opera help?`
`06:29.41`	`KotCzarny`	`also how did you do ctrl-p ?`
`06:29.55`	`ds3`	`the obvious way :P`
`06:30.05`	`KotCzarny`	`external kb?`
`06:30.06`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`06:30.15`	`ds3`	`of course`
`06:30.21`	`KotCzarny`	`hah.`
`06:31.22`	`ds3`	`it would be so nice to have a little portable printer to print coupons from website while at the store`
`06:32.20`	`*** join/#maemo VimSi (n=vims@dslb-084-061-009-255.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`06:33.05`	`KotCzarny`	`ds3: btw. is any kind of a printing supported?`
`06:33.06`	`KotCzarny`	`:>`
`06:33.20`	`KotCzarny`	`i believe lp(r) is not installed`
`06:33.33`	`ds3`	`KotCzarny: I just need it to be able to generate a PS file`
`06:34.13`	`ds3`	`got ghostscript installed so it should just be a matter of doing something like gs -sOuputFile=/dev/ttyUSB0 -sDEVICE=foo /tmp/file.ps`
`06:35.26`	`*** join/#maemo jeddy3 (n=mattiast@gw.sbg.se)`
`06:37.20`	`KotCzarny`	`http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16201`
`06:37.21`	`KotCzarny`	`nice`
`06:37.45`	`*** join/#maemo Crfrod (n=Crfrod@88.214.193.26)`
`06:37.46`	`doc\|home`	`well I'll be damned`
`06:38.45`	`pupnik`	`heh, i bet like < 1% of tablet users know that`
`06:38.50`	`unixSnob`	`that could be annoying`
`06:39.21`	`unixSnob`	`what if you realize you didn't want to tap a letter.. dragging it far is an intuitive way to ditch it`
`06:39.38`	`KotCzarny`	`unixsnob: how many times have you did that?`
`06:39.43`	`KotCzarny`	`ie. happened to you?`
`06:39.58`	`*** join/#maemo b0unc3_ (n=b0unc3@host-84-223-136-165.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)`
`06:40.16`	`doc\|home`	`by the way, I talked to some plastics people about getting styluses made. You're looking at $1000+ just to have a mould made`
`06:40.23`	`doc\|home`	`well, between one and two`
`06:40.41`	`unixSnob`	`not yet.. but I do like the feature`
`06:40.48`	`KotCzarny`	`huh`
`06:40.53`	`unixSnob`	`You really have to drag far to get the behavior`
`06:41.03`	`KotCzarny`	`doc: i'v got my stylus back, fortunatelly`
`06:41.07`	`ds3`	`doc\|home: what do you want to do that is different?`
`06:41.26`	`doc\|home`	`ds3: actually acquire styluses :)`
`06:41.38`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`06:41.42`	`ds3`	`okay`
`06:41.48`	`*** join/#maemo mbuf (n=mbuf@61.16.248.242)`
`06:41.51`	`doc\|home`	`they're practically impossible to get`
`06:41.55`	`doc\|home`	`in north america anyway`
`06:42.17`	`ds3`	`you need one that fits the holder? cuz I saw some at the dollar store`
`06:42.29`	`KotCzarny`	`fits and locks there`
`06:42.30`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`06:42.38`	`doc\|home`	`ds3: that fit?`
`06:42.40`	`mbuf`	`any pymaemo, pygst developers here? does Example 2.1 need any modification before it can be played on OS20007? http://pygstdocs.berlios.de/pygst-tutorial/playbin.html`
`06:42.40`	`KotCzarny`	`it's no fun losing them again :>`
`06:42.51`	`ds3`	`doc\|home: fit in the holder`
`06:42.58`	`doc\|home`	`ds3: right, and actually lock in?`
`06:43.00`	`*** join/#maemo geaaru (n=geaaru@host249-228-dynamic.11-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)`
`06:43.08`	`mbuf`	`*OS2007`
`06:43.22`	`doc\|home`	`I lost one and the dog chewed another, so I filed that one down. It's usable but falls out :/`
`06:43.45`	`KotCzarny`	`doc: but after you got the mould it would be cheap?`
`06:44.11`	`doc\|home`	`KotCzarny: yeah, but hardly worth it. Not sure I'd get my money back`
`06:44.22`	`ds3`	`for just a one or two off, you can probally get them made for around $100-$200 a each..cheaper then a mould`
`06:44.23`	`doc\|home`	`I ain't paying a grand for a couple of styluses :)`
`06:44.23`	`KotCzarny`	`you need to find 99 people then`
`06:44.24`	`KotCzarny`	`:>`
`06:44.34`	`KotCzarny`	`10$ per stylus isn't that bad`
`06:44.49`	`ds3`	`or you can just carry one of those multipens with a stylus`
`06:45.11`	`KotCzarny`	`200$ will get you used n800`
`06:45.16`	`KotCzarny`	`with 2 styluses`
`06:45.16`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
`06:45.19`	`doc\|home`	`heh`
`06:45.39`	`ds3`	`but for $200, it can be custom made, engraved with your name :)`
`06:46.00`	`doc\|home`	`of silver`
`06:46.08`	`KotCzarny`	`or titan`
`06:46.09`	`doc\|home`	`pure .999 silver`
`06:46.23`	`doc\|home`	`man, how pissed would you be losing that?`
`06:46.24`	`unixSnob`	`or $1600 would get you a new n800`
`06:46.33`	`KotCzarny`	`doc: not much`
`06:46.42`	`KotCzarny`	`it's still cheap`
`06:46.47`	`KotCzarny`	`but gold..`
`06:46.52`	`unixSnob`	`Kot- actually a new n800 is $190 (mine was)`
`06:47.02`	`KotCzarny`	`unix: mine was 150$`
`06:47.04`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`06:47.05`	`doc\|home`	`heh`
`06:47.18`	`unixSnob`	`doh!`
`06:47.21`	`unixSnob`	`where?`
`06:47.21`	`KotCzarny`	`(:`
`06:47.25`	`KotCzarny`	`on craiglist`
`06:47.55`	`KotCzarny`	`and i got it with screen protector (and 9 of them unused)`
`06:47.59`	`KotCzarny`	`and wiping cloth`
`06:48.02`	`KotCzarny`	`:>`
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`06:50.17`	`unixSnob`	`$250 looks like the norm on craigslist`
`06:50.39`	`KotCzarny`	`yeah, but often it's a matter of luck`
`06:50.47`	`KotCzarny`	`or just haggling`
`06:52.02`	`unixSnob`	`damn i gotta get to sleep. this IRC is responsible for keeping me up till 2am.. gotta control that`
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`06:52.10`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`06:52.21`	`KotCzarny`	`cut you network line?`
`06:52.46`	`liri`	`where did you get an n800 for $150/$190?`
`06:52.48`	`unixSnob`	`I should be able to control this.. I've just been off irc for a decade, and just got on again this past month`
`06:52.56`	`KotCzarny`	`liri: on craiglist`
`06:53.03`	`KotCzarny`	`and 190 are on froogle`
`06:53.04`	`unixSnob`	`For $190, I went to macmall.com`
`06:53.13`	`unixSnob`	`But the macmall price fluctuates`
`06:53.47`	`unixSnob`	`The shelf price has been up and down.. it's like they can't decide whether to treat it as obsolete or not`
`06:54.00`	`unixSnob`	`Since n810 is not a direct upgrade`
`06:55.06`	`KotCzarny`	`http://www.shopstormcomputer.com/ssproduct.asp?pf_id=1010846905`
`06:55.10`	`unixSnob`	`u folks know how long till the wifi goes to sleep? does wifi sleep when the lcd does?`
`06:55.11`	`liri`	`ahh nice`
`06:55.14`	`KotCzarny`	`here you have one for 186`
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`06:55.38`	`liri`	`why do they call it a navigation kit?`
`06:55.40`	`KotCzarny`	`unix: it sleeps when there's no data moving over it`
`06:55.46`	`KotCzarny`	`erm`
`06:55.48`	`KotCzarny`	`sorry`
`06:55.50`	`KotCzarny`	`wrong link`
`06:55.51`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`06:55.55`	`liri`	`heh`
`06:56.23`	`KotCzarny`	`http://www.superdigitalmedia.com/product_info.php?products_id=2156`
`06:56.28`	`KotCzarny`	`here's one for 181`
`06:56.30`	`KotCzarny`	`171`
`06:56.37`	`KotCzarny`	`but they don't list if it's in stock`
`06:57.09`	`KotCzarny`	`A minimum order amount of $USD 500 is required in order to checkout.`
`06:57.10`	`KotCzarny`	`lol`
`06:57.18`	`KotCzarny`	`madness`
`06:57.38`	`KotCzarny`	`but i guess one can take 3 of them`
`06:57.44`	`KotCzarny`	`and simply sell them off`
`06:57.45`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
`06:58.53`	`doc\|home`	`that site looks like a scam`
`06:59.07`	`KotCzarny`	`probably`
`06:59.18`	`KotCzarny`	`that's why i like CL`
`06:59.19`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`06:59.30`	`doc\|home`	`CL?`
`06:59.37`	`KotCzarny`	`craigslist`
`06:59.39`	`doc\|home`	`ah`
`07:00.01`	`doc\|home`	`well this is no good, I seem to have lost an email :(`
`07:00.30`	`KotCzarny`	`no backup in sent/trash ?`
`07:01.34`	`doc\|home`	`seems not :/`
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`07:03.11`	`doc\|home`	`Canon EOS 40D SLR Digital Camera Body Only $828.00`
`07:03.20`	`doc\|home`	`there is zero chance of that site being legit`
`07:03.29`	`KotCzarny`	`hehe`
`07:04.14`	`KotCzarny`	`btw. 200-250 seems to be the shopping mall price for a n800`
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`07:05.57`	`KotCzarny`	`http://www.overstockdealz.com/products.asp?id=N800&referer=google`
`07:06.03`	`KotCzarny`	`here's one for 210`
`07:06.50`	`doc\|home`	`I got mine for 260 CAD or so`
`07:07.06`	`doc\|home`	`and that was after price matching`
`07:07.36`	`KotCzarny`	`i have stalked CL for a few months`
`07:07.49`	`KotCzarny`	`originally wanted any of them, even 770`
`07:07.51`	`KotCzarny`	`:>`
`07:08.14`	`KotCzarny`	`but then prices for n800 have fallen`
`07:08.16`	`KotCzarny`	`:>`
`07:08.55`	`liri`	`I'm wondering`
`07:09.02`	`liri`	`what do you use the n800 for mainly?`
`07:09.10`	`KotCzarny`	`fun`
`07:10.07`	`doc\|home`	`liri: sitting in a cafe reading news articles after work. Reading emails sometimes. It has a funky mpd client which, when mpd hasn't shat itself, is useful for when I'm in bed and don't want to get out. And mahjong :o`
`07:10.34`	`liri`	`are you using it more for home-use or do you find it useful on the road as well? (I'm saying on the road cause in active use it only lasts 3 hours which isn't a whole lot)`
`07:10.52`	`liri`	`what's mpd doc?`
`07:10.54`	`doc\|home`	`yeah, that's one thing I wish it had, usb charging :/`
`07:11.13`	`doc\|home`	`liri: media player daemon. Means I can control my computer's music from the n800`
`07:11.30`	`liri`	`ahh`
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`07:12.52`	`liri`	`I'm actually more excited about the possibility of developing some pygtk apps for it`
`07:12.55`	`liri`	`more than anything else`
`07:13.04`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`07:13.13`	`KotCzarny`	`as i said 'fun factor'`
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`07:13.27`	`liri`	`yeah`
`07:13.48`	`liri`	`though I'm wondering how relatively easy it would be to get started with some nice apps`
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`07:54.51`	`christefano`	`has anyone seen their Airport Extremes die on a regular basis when an N8x0 starts using the network?`
`07:55.01`	`mbuf`	`how to fix this error on N800? http://pastebin.ca/937860`
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`08:00.54`	`KotCzarny`	`mbus: basically it says you it has alread parts of it installed`
`08:01.54`	`KotCzarny`	`but i don't know..`
`08:01.58`	`mbuf`	`KotCzarny, it conflicts with some plugins-bad, i think?`
`08:02.25`	`mbuf`	`KotCzarny, but, if i apt-get remove it, it says, it is not installed!`
`08:02.34`	`KotCzarny`	`W: You may want to run apt-get update to correct these problems`
`08:02.35`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`08:02.46`	`KotCzarny`	`try running apt-get update`
`08:03.30`	`mbuf`	`KotCzarny, have done that many a time now`
`08:03.30`	`KotCzarny`	`hum`
`08:03.31`	`mbuf`	`KotCzarny, do you use OS2007?`
`08:03.54`	`KotCzarny`	`nope, 2008`
`08:04.15`	`mbuf`	`KotCzarny, ohh, is it possible for you test this Example 2.1, and see if it works or not? http://pygstdocs.berlios.de/pygst-tutorial/playbin.html`
`08:04.18`	`KotCzarny`	`isn't 2007 a 'bora' ?`
`08:07.34`	`KotCzarny`	`ok, i'm off to sleep`
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`08:18.43`	`mbuf`	`KotCzarny, yes, 2007 is Bora`
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`08:19.06`	`KotCzarny`	`so why are you using repo for mistral?`
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`08:35.24`	`lardman`	`morning`
`08:35.58`	`*** join/#maemo sergio_ (n=sergio@fanzine.igalia.com)`
`08:46.58`	`Jaffa`	`Morning, all`
`08:47.21`	`Spakman`	`hello`
`08:47.33`	`solmumaha`	`morning`
`08:50.33`	`lardman`	`johnx: I fear the card is pretty knackered, using dd (with sync, notrunc, etc.) or ddrescue produces a file which is ~750Mb. The original one I dd'd (with no options) was closer to 900Mb`
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`08:59.41`	`aquatix`	`morning all`
`09:02.49`	`solmumaha`	`does os2008 use hal to mount mass-storage devices?`
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`09:34.34`	`christefano`	`is there a version of abiword for OS 2008?`
`09:35.01`	`christefano`	`the one I found won't install, so I assume it's for OS 2007 or earlier`
`09:35.13`	`christefano`	`http://www.abisource.com/downloads/abiword/2.3.4/Linux/Maemo/abiword_2.3.4-1maemo1_arm.deb`
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`09:40.21`	`solmumaha`	`ntfs read/write works nicely, just need to make the os mount it automatically`
`09:40.37`	`hugolp`	`Hi, my N800 doesnt connect to my Ericsson k800i through bluetooth`
`09:40.59`	`hugolp`	`anyone know where I should look to solve it?`
`09:42.04`	`timely`	`the future`
`09:42.27`	`timely`	`hrm, not sure how good my distance vision is, in fact, i need glasses :)`
`09:42.52`	`timely`	`alternatively, you could grab the bluez source code and hack it until it works :)`
`09:43.28`	`lardman`	`hugolp: using gnokii?`
`09:43.56`	`lardman`	`seems ui responsiveness is a big thing atm`
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`09:44.04`	`lardman`	`I'm not too bothered about app startup time (it's good enough), but the web browser starts up and just sits there apparently doing nothing; that annoys me`
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`09:49.36`	`hugolp`	`lardman: using the N800 bluetooth config application`
`09:49.41`	`hugolp`	`dont know whats gnokii`
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`09:52.06`	`timely`	`lardman: the web browser has two pieces`
`09:52.16`	`timely`	`the ui which is very fast to load, and gecko, which is not as fast (by far)`
`09:52.39`	`timely`	`atm they're not really parallelized, hopefully they will be`
`09:54.28`	`lardman`	`hugolp: ah ok, was wondering if it was bluetooth related or the protocol ontop to do things (send sms, etc.)`
`09:54.54`	`lardman`	`timely: all it needs is a notification saying that it's doing something (IMO)`
`09:55.09`	`timely`	`lardman: um, i thought it had a useless one "updating"`
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`09:55.27`	`lardman`	`hmm, if so it must be displayed quite late`
`09:55.34`	`lardman`	`I'll have to take another look`
`09:55.59`	`hugolp`	`lardman: I think its the protocol, cause it accepts the internet access but then the phone asks me to accept N800 as controller and then fails`
`09:56.11`	`hugolp`	`lardman: any idea where to look to solve this?`
`09:56.21`	`timely`	`"controller"?`
`09:56.30`	`timely`	`did you mark it as trusted in bluetooth in the phone?`
`09:56.35`	`lardman`	`hugolp: no idea, sorry`
`09:56.47`	`hugolp`	`timely: yes, I marked it as trusted`
`09:56.59`	`hugolp`	`should I try untrusted?`
`09:57.12`	`timely`	`no :)`
`09:58.32`	`hugolp`	`ok, this is weird, now they connect but the phone wants to act as a remote control`
`09:58.50`	`lardman`	`updating is displayed briefly, if there is no connectivity no message is displayed while the connection is started`
`09:59.25`	`lardman`	`I'll have to do some more testing when my wifi connection actually starts working.`
`09:59.42`	`timely`	`lardman: what connection?`
`09:59.47`	`timely`	`out of the box, the homepage is local`
`09:59.57`	`lardman`	`ah, my apologies`
`10:00.06`	`lardman`	`talking about starting something from the bookmark menu`
`10:00.23`	`lardman`	`the top "world" item on the LHS`
`10:01.46`	`hugolp`	`ok, now it connects but only as a remote control`
`10:02.01`	`hugolp`	`I just want to have internet on the N800`
`10:03.02`	`lardman`	`does you phone support the correct profile?`
`10:03.30`	`hugolp`	`lardman: yes, I have configured internet bluetooth account`
`10:03.31`	`lardman`	`DUN I suppose`
`10:03.34`	`hugolp`	`so Im guessing it does`
`10:03.41`	`hugolp`	`its the Ericsson k800i`
`10:04.11`	`lardman`	`quite new so it ought to`
`10:04.29`	`lardman`	`dunno then`
`10:04.34`	`hugolp`	`lardman: yes in the N800 device details it says Supported profiles: DUN, FTP, HID,OPP,SPP`
`10:05.01`	`hugolp`	`its weird cause when the N800 tries to connect its only posible to act as a remote control`
`10:05.09`	`hugolp`	`and when the phone tries to connect it fails`
`10:05.27`	`hugolp`	`who didnt heard about respecting standards here?`
`10:05.29`	`hugolp`	`....`
`10:05.55`	`lardman`	`On one of my phones, I had to click yes to enable each different feature when the N800 asked for it`
`10:06.17`	`lardman`	`do it asked if it would be allowed to access the internet, use serial link, be a remote control, etc.`
`10:06.31`	`lardman`	`I wonder if the settings on the phone preclude this for some reason`
`10:06.51`	`hugolp`	`lardman: I clicked yes to the internet`
`10:06.56`	`hugolp`	`it was the first question`
`10:07.21`	`lardman`	`ok, back to my standard response then ;): dunno`
`10:07.26`	`lardman`	`bbiab`
`10:08.22`	`hugolp`	`for their reputation Im guessing its Sony who didnt heard about standards`
`10:09.31`	`aquatix`	`well, it worked immediately on my SE m600i`
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`10:09.43`	`aquatix`	`i was pleasantly surprised :)`
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`10:10.18`	`thux`	`hello what are tahvo and retu devices?`
`10:21.37`	`solmumaha`	`thux: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/codenames/`
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`10:56.08`	`doktoreas`	`hello everybody`
`10:56.22`	`doktoreas`	`I have just discovered Meamo project :d`
`10:56.27`	`doktoreas`	`any maemo mapper user?`
`11:03.54`	`lardman`	`yep`
`11:04.46`	`doktoreas`	`hi lardman`
`11:05.17`	`*** join/#maemo ab_ (n=ab@nat/ibm/x-ed51cd101c7923ee)`
`11:05.17`	`lardman`	`hi doktoreas, what did you want to know?`
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`11:06.03`	`doktoreas`	`lardman, just for knowing with maemo map is there an option to create preset tags`
`11:06.07`	`*** part/#maemo ab (n=ab@pdpc/supporter/professional/ab)`
`11:06.17`	`doktoreas`	`and then assign them to each track you recorded?`
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`11:06.35`	`*** join/#maemo ab (n=ab@pdpc/supporter/professional/ab)`
`11:06.52`	`lardman`	`hmm, I don't know about that I'm afraid`
`11:07.12`	`doktoreas`	`ok np`
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`11:21.05`	`*** join/#maemo denny (i=denny@freenode/staff/denny)`
`11:22.57`	`denny`	`so I installed ogg support, and now I keep getting random snippets of german navigation instructions played at me :) Is the recommended solution for this 'install a media player that lets you choose where your music is'? (any recommendations?)`
`11:24.25`	`kulve`	`denny: there's a workaround for that..`
`11:25.02`	`timely`	`denny: that's the ogg map voices`
`11:25.05`	`timely`	`you could remove the ;-)`
`11:25.21`	`timely`	`http://tuomas.kulve.fi/blog/category/maemo/`
`11:26.20`	`kulve`	`timely: thanks ;)`
`11:26.21`	`kulve`	`https://garage.maemo.org/forum/message.php?msg_id=4089`
`11:26.40`	`kulve`	`there's an ugly hack to remove them from the metalayer crawler's Library`
`11:27.24`	`timely`	`you said that in your blog ;-)`
`11:28.04`	`kulve`	`yep, I was looking for the link but couldn't find it until you posted it ;)`
`11:28.20`	`denny`	`oh, and I tried to install Skype last night and it said it couldn't install as it had conflicts and might screw the system - any idea what that might be about?`
`11:28.41`	`denny`	`I don't have anything particularly weird installed... couple of games from maemo.org, ogg support, mapper, I think that's it`
`11:29.03`	`timely`	`denny: there are ~3 different ways to try to get skype`
`11:29.12`	`timely`	`and are you using the latest os2008 or an earlier one`
`11:29.16`	`*** join/#maemo tjafk (n=tjlocal@p54BEB2ED.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`11:29.20`	`timely`	`if you aren't using the latest, upgrade.`
`11:30.29`	`denny`	`I have whatever came on the 810 when I bought it last week`
`11:31.03`	`denny`	`I tried to install it via the my selection -> skype menu option`
`11:31.18`	`kulve`	`denny: did you upgrade the os2008 to the latest version?`
`11:31.48`	`timely`	`denny: afaik, the devices in stores are likely to have an old version of the os`
`11:31.58`	`timely`	`go to the nokia download site and grab the updater`
`11:32.07`	`*** part/#maemo zwnj (n=zwnj@relay.linux.ir)`
`11:32.10`	`denny`	`hokay`
`11:32.32`	`denny`	`is that going to flash it clean, or will it leave installed apps and settings as they are?`
`11:33.41`	`*** join/#maemo Bayk (n=chatzill@c-68-59-53-94.hsd1.al.comcast.net)`
`11:33.59`	`kulve`	`settings can be backuped and restored quite nicely`
`11:34.09`	`Bayk`	`Hello`
`11:34.09`	`kulve`	`with applications it's a bit harder as there is a bug..`
`11:34.47`	`kulve`	`denny: you need to deny restoring the apps in next boot after the flash, enable the extras repo in Application Manager and then restore the apps`
`11:35.08`	`denny`	`fun.`
`11:35.19`	`denny`	`think I'll leave that until I have some spare time then :)`
`11:35.34`	`denny`	`hrm, I can't install modest either`
`11:35.36`	`denny`	`same error as skype`
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`11:43.02`	`aquatix`	`denny: iirc, that's indeed because you have an older OS2008 version`
`11:43.09`	`aquatix`	`it'll work after an upgrade`
`11:45.23`	`denny`	`I guess I should go buy a data card for this thing at some point`
`11:45.34`	`denny`	`I ordered the wrong size with it :)`
`11:45.39`	`denny`	`never mind, made my digicam happy`
`11:45.57`	`*** join/#maemo vims0r (n=vims@dslb-084-061-005-081.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`11:46.42`	`aquatix`	`as they make larger capacity microsd's than minisd's`
`11:47.09`	`hrw`	`timely: two last os2008 releases were same`
`11:47.20`	`denny`	`I meant to buy a MicroSD (after reading an incorrect review on the site I bought the tablet from) but misread the page and actually bought a full size SD card`
`11:47.22`	`denny`	`double fail :)`
`11:47.24`	`hrw`	`timely: .51.3 only changed bootloader - rootfs was the same`
`11:48.14`	`denny`	`how do I find out what I have?`
`11:48.58`	`hrw`	`denny: control panel - there is 'about device' or sth like that`
`11:49.42`	`denny`	`Version: 1.2007.42-19`
`11:50.04`	`kulve`	`2.2007.50-2`
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`11:53.10`	`denny`	`we're a major version apart?`
`11:53.35`	`denny`	`I can't find any MiniSD cards over 2GB, but I can find MicroSD at 4GB`
`11:53.39`	`denny`	`that seems odd`
`11:54.06`	`hrw`	`denny: 50-2 and 51-3 were last releases - upgrade`
`11:54.14`	`*** join/#maemo Tobotras (n=tobotras@it.niir.ru)`
`11:54.39`	`denny`	`so I've been told :)`
`11:54.45`	`kulve`	`yeah, there's a big difference between 42 and 50. And some rare boot fix in 51 (iirc)`
`11:54.55`	`denny`	`seems like a job for when I have (a) some time, and (b) a powe adaptor`
`11:54.57`	`denny`	`*power`
`11:55.46`	`hrw`	`kulve: 51 had important boot fix yes`
`11:55.59`	`hrw`	`kulve: my n810 finally works`
`11:56.00`	`kulve`	`mine boots just fine ;)`
`11:56.11`	`hrw`	`mine now too`
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`11:56.24`	`hrw`	`with 51-3 nolo and 50-2 based rootfs`
`11:58.34`	`aquatix`	`denny: i got my 4GB minisd at amazon.com`
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`11:59.18`	`denny`	`yeah, just looking at their .co.uk now`
`11:59.28`	`denny`	`I try to avoid buying from them though - the old patent thing`
`11:59.35`	`aquatix`	`heheh`
`11:59.47`	`aquatix`	`myeah, bought my n810 in the us, and got a minisd with it`
`12:00.04`	`aquatix`	`as the device doesn't sell here in the netherlands yet`
`12:00.08`	`aquatix`	`or at least didn't at that moment`
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`12:00.36`	`aquatix`	`denny: microsd -> minisd adapters are about 1 euro at dealextreme.com`
`12:00.51`	`aquatix`	`so i bought 2 [free shipping anyway]`
`12:01.05`	`aquatix`	`so i can buy an 8GB microsd or something`
`12:03.07`	`denny`	`howcome microsd has higher capacity than minisd, that doesn't seem to make sense`
`12:03.23`	`aquatix`	`well, minisd isn't just used anymore`
`12:03.30`	`aquatix`	`all cellphones and such use microsd`
`12:03.39`	`aquatix`	`and digicams and such use normal sd`
`12:03.47`	`denny`	`why didn't they put microsd in the tablet then?`
`12:03.53`	`aquatix`	`[of course, sdhc versions of it all, but whatev']`
`12:03.58`	`aquatix`	`dunno`
`12:04.03`	`aquatix`	`microsd is freaking tiny :)`
`12:04.32`	`denny`	`yeah, full size SD in the tablet would have been nice - I read the forums about it though, they ran out of space it seems`
`12:04.33`	`aquatix`	`i prefer having a microsd card in an adapter to carry with me`
`12:04.33`	`denny`	`shame`
`12:04.33`	`aquatix`	`fullsize would've been cool though indeed`
`12:04.33`	`aquatix`	`yeah`
`12:05.54`	`hrw`	`bottom part of n810 is not thick enough to use SD slot probably`
`12:06.02`	`hrw`	`same with microUSB instead of miniUSB`
`12:06.16`	`hrw`	`at least it is not nokiaUSB connector...`
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`12:07.42`	`denny`	`these say stop the metacrawler as root`
`12:07.45`	`johnx`	`maybe they had a whole bunch of mini-sdhc slots left over?`
`12:07.49`	`denny`	`the webpage I found about gaining root says sudo gainroot`
`12:07.58`	`denny`	`sudo gainroot says something about read errors and breaking my device :)`
`12:08.08`	`kulve`	`denny: I use sshd to get the root access..`
`12:08.20`	`aquatix`	`hrw: good point`
`12:08.40`	`johnx`	`denny, use becomeroot, easyroot or install openssh and "ssh root@localhost"`
`12:09.26`	`aquatix`	`denny: i followed http://devnoob.blogspot.com/2008/01/root-access-on-nokia-n810.html`
`12:09.35`	`denny`	`ta`
`12:09.36`	`aquatix`	`using openssh indeed`
`12:10.03`	`denny`	`having ssh and sshd sounds useful anyway`
`12:10.14`	`aquatix`	`indeed`
`12:10.24`	`aquatix`	`but be sure to follow their hints on changing the pw's :)`
`12:10.25`	`kulve`	`I do most of my hacking by loggin in as ssh`
`12:10.38`	`kulve`	`..as root through ssh`
`12:10.49`	`johnx`	`aquatix, it makes you set the password at install...`
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`12:11.17`	`aquatix`	`johnx: true`
`12:11.24`	`aquatix`	`but i disabled remote root too`
`12:11.31`	`aquatix`	`and added the sudo option`
`12:11.33`	`johnx`	`ah, I like to live dangerously`
`12:11.35`	`aquatix`	`so i now just do sudo su -`
`12:12.11`	`johnx`	`I drink milk from the carton, I remote login as root, and sometimes I don't wear matching socks :)`
`12:12.33`	`aquatix`	`the latter: bleh ;)`
`12:13.17`	`johnx`	`:P`
`12:13.27`	`buddylee`	`you could also configure sshd to only allow root from localhost`
`12:13.42`	`johnx`	`or set a good password and not worry about it too much`
`12:13.57`	`aquatix`	`myeah, i disable remote root on all my machines`
`12:14.09`	`aquatix`	`why risk an attack`
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`12:17.14`	`*** join/#maemo woodong50 (n=rouu5478@121.176.37.249)`
`12:17.26`	`woodong50`	`hi`
`12:17.34`	`*** join/#maemo luck^ (n=Luciano@200.184.118.132)`
`12:20.15`	`woodong50`	`....`
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`12:29.07`	`denny`	`hrmph.`
`12:29.12`	`denny`	`denny@starbug ~ $ file .meta_storage`
`12:29.13`	`denny`	`.meta_storage: SQLite 3.x database`
`12:29.13`	`denny`	`denny@starbug ~ $ sqlite .meta_storage`
`12:29.13`	`denny`	`Unable to open database ".meta_storage": file is encrypted or is not a database`
`12:29.56`	`kulve`	`denny: your sqlite is not sqlite3?`
`12:30.06`	`Juhaz`	`indeed it probably isn't`
`12:30.25`	`*** join/#maemo dexter (n=dexter2l@80.88.144.155)`
`12:31.07`	`*** join/#maemo aloisiojr (n=aloisio@200.184.118.132)`
`12:31.41`	`Juhaz`	`since the command line app for sqlite3 is called sqlite3.`
`12:31.51`	`*** part/#maemo dexter (n=dexter2l@80.88.144.155)`
`12:32.53`	`denny`	`hah.`
`12:32.54`	`denny`	`thank you`
`12:33.01`	`*** join/#maemo dexter (n=dexter2l@80.88.144.155)`
`12:33.09`	`*** part/#maemo dexter (n=dexter2l@80.88.144.155)`
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`12:35.33`	`denny`	`thanks for your help :)`
`12:36.43`	`kulve`	`if I would have the time I would create a small app to do that for you.. But I don't.`
`12:41.57`	`*** join/#maemo henrique (n=henrique@unaffiliated/henrique)`
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`13:23.04`	`*** join/#maemo msh_ (n=matt@bright-snat.ucc.asn.au)`
`13:23.15`	`SDuensin`	`Greetings.`
`13:23.25`	`*** join/#maemo behda1 (n=behdad@p54BEB0B7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`13:24.22`	`*** join/#maemo jegp (n=jegp@main.netvision.com.py)`
`13:24.36`	`henrique`	`hi, it seems my n800 isn't connecting to google talk, does anybody had the same problem?`
`13:25.01`	`henrique`	`the "chat status icon" only blinks in red and green and never connect`
`13:27.16`	`Tobotras`	`mine just works`
`13:27.31`	`*** join/#maemo blassey (n=blassey@18.36.7.63)`
`13:27.34`	`Tobotras`	`henrique: Is internet connectivity generally ok?`
`13:28.59`	`msh_`	`any maemo-mapper developers about?`
`13:29.24`	`henrique`	`Tobotras, yes, I can access sites, just the IM doesn't works`
`13:29.50`	`Tobotras`	`henrique: using pidgin or "native" chat client (forgot the name)?`
`13:31.00`	`henrique`	`Tobotras, the native one`
`13:31.16`	`*** join/#maemo mazzen (n=mortel@vpn-ce242011.extern.uni-duisburg-essen.de)`
`13:35.28`	`Tobotras`	`henrique: nothing special then. Triple check account settings? :)`
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`13:38.33`	`ccooke`	`Is there a command line interface to the LEDs?`
`13:39.03`	`*** join/#maemo hugolp (n=jo@unaffiliated/hugolp)`
`13:39.04`	`inz`	`ccooke, dbus-send ;)`
`13:39.07`	`ccooke`	`although come to think of it, I could probably do everything in python/perl/whatever`
`13:39.11`	`ccooke`	`inz: oh, that's easy :-)`
`13:39.25`	`henrique`	`Tobotras, is there some tip? I've just put my gmail account and my password, it is enough right?`
`13:39.28`	`inz`	`ccooke, depends a bit on how you want to use it`
`13:39.40`	`ccooke`	`inz: will that also allow you to pop up those notification messages that IM/mail clients do?`
`13:39.43`	`Tobotras`	`henrique: should work`
`13:40.00`	`inz`	`ccooke, actually it does ;)`
`13:40.01`	`*** join/#maemo chenca (n=chenca@200.184.118.132)`
`13:40.19`	`inz`	`ccooke, it won't, however, allow you to act when one is activated`
`13:40.31`	`ccooke`	`My reason is simple: I'm bored, and thus I'm contemplating creating a native irssi plugin for the chat functions...`
`13:40.32`	`henrique`	`very strange`
`13:40.41`	`ccooke`	`inz: Drat. But a python script, say, could?`
`13:40.50`	`henrique`	`Tobotras, we are talking about the maemo which comes with n800, right?`
`13:41.01`	`inz`	`ccooke, I think so, yes`
`13:41.22`	`ccooke`	`(if I get it working, I'll probably do a Mutt script, too ;-)`
`13:42.00`	`ccooke`	`basically, I want to see if I can get text-based IM and mail facilities the same integration as the GUI apps.`
`13:42.07`	`ccooke`	`It really should be possible`
`13:43.04`	`ccooke`	`irssi with a bitlbee server would easily do the job for every IM protocol I'm likely to use... mutt for email...`
`13:44.11`	`*** join/#maemo _matthias_ (n=matthias@dyn167085.wlan.jku.at)`
`13:44.19`	`Tobotras`	`henrique: erhm... I've installed upgrade, of course. You think there might be difference?`
`13:44.42`	`ccooke`	`Is there a recommended scripting language for maemo?`
`13:44.55`	`henrique`	`Tobotras, should be the problem`
`13:45.33`	`henrique`	`Tobotras, how can I do the upgrade?`
`13:46.06`	`Tobotras`	`henrique: by following instructions on nokia site? :)`
`13:46.37`	`ynezz`	`ccooke: python probably`
`13:47.14`	`ccooke`	`ynezz: Mmm. Looks it, yeah`
`13:47.22`	`ccooke`	`I've been meaning to learn python.`
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`13:50.28`	`henrique`	`Tobotras, right`
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`14:29.09`	`pupnik_`	`slim is sexy`
`14:29.27`	`KotCzarny`	`sometimes`
`14:29.29`	`pupnik`	`ah stuck in scrollback`
`14:29.38`	`pupnik`	`(re N810 case)`
`14:29.46`	`KotCzarny`	`but sometimes having full body is sexy too`
`14:29.47`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
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`14:31.05`	`\|\|cw`	`slim != skinny`
`14:32.28`	`ccooke`	`pupnik: Which case is that?`
`14:32.39`	`pupnik`	`the unit itself`
`14:32.43`	`ccooke`	`ahhh`
`14:32.46`	`ccooke`	`it is nice.`
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`14:33.26`	`desertc`	`Does anyone read ebooks on their N800/N810 ?`
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`14:33.31`	`KotCzarny`	`lol`
`14:33.33`	`desertc`	`Any suggestion for software?`
`14:33.41`	`KotCzarny`	`evince, fbreader`
`14:33.49`	`desertc`	`Hiya, KotCzarny. Morning.`
`14:34.11`	`desertc`	`Thanks - I will research them both.`
`14:34.57`	`KotCzarny`	`btw. anyone used hidhspeed mmc mode?`
`14:35.04`	`KotCzarny`	`(kernel patch)`
`14:35.52`	`desertc`	`fbreader was just what I was seeking`
`14:37.02`	`ccooke`	`desertc: FBreader is great.`
`14:37.43`	`ccooke`	`(I'm really pleased with the PDair aluminium case. Very solid, and I can read ebooks without opening the case :-)`
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`14:40.51`	`desertc`	`ccooke: Slashdot had a story on the trend to release ebooks without Digital Restriction Management, so I thought it might be a good time to look at reader software again, now that that annoying trend is passing. I really enjoyed my Franklin eBookReader back 8 years ago.`
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`14:41.18`	`desertc`	`http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/03/11/0633233`
`14:42.26`	`elb`	`there are quite a few publishers who release DRM-free ebooks at very reasonable prices`
`14:42.37`	`elb`	`Baen releases almost everything they publish at paperback prices`
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`14:43.36`	`ccooke`	`desertc: that's not ebooks - that's audio books.`
`14:43.41`	`desertc`	`ccooke: You have one of these cases? http://www.pdair.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=10100000_1900000_11000089`
`14:43.48`	`ccooke`	`It's still a good thing, mind`
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`14:44.46`	`desertc`	`Heh - you are right - audio books. Well, I guess I am a typical /. reader. Never read the articles - this one required a login. Aren't the comments the best part anyway? ;-)`
`14:44.49`	`ccooke`	`desertc: One of these: http://www.pdair.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=10100000_1900000_11000208&products_id=7317`
`14:45.24`	`ccooke`	`desertc: ... the comments on slashdot? you read them? ;-)`
`14:46.31`	`truls`	`comments > stories`
`14:46.40`	`desertc`	`Most of the time the comments are useful even when the article is garbage! Although, the quality has gone down hill so much in the last several years.`
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`14:47.08`	`ccooke`	`desertc: I admit - I do sometimes read the comments. They (and the site itself) are just an easy target:-)`
`14:47.10`	`*** join/#maemo hugolp (n=jo@unaffiliated/hugolp)`
`14:47.10`	`Brains`	`Comments on Slashdotnare about the only thing worth reading.. Stories tend to lag other sources.`
`14:47.13`	`*** join/#maemo jaggen (n=armando@modemcable106.102-201-24.mc.videotron.ca)`
`14:48.00`	`desertc`	`Got a feel for which is which... for example, the article on Linux gaming. I have an interest in it. The article was garbage, but it was interesting to see /. readers still have lots of misconceptions on the topic.`
`14:48.02`	`Brains`	`(And we'll skip talking about trolling via story summary...)`
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`14:49.00`	`desertc`	`Brains: I typically read the /. Old Story scroll - less annoying editor copy and more stories displayed per page. It is down right now, but I find it better than even the RSS feed.`
`14:49.55`	`desertc`	`ccooke: That's a nice looking case. I was looking at my N800 screen yesterday wondering what I would do when the screen finally needs to get replaced.`
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`14:55.57`	`desertc`	`More on-topic, /. also had a story a few minutes ago how iPhone users are specifically prohibited from adding Firefox, VoIP software, and other applications. (Funny, I can't find the link now.) I don't think any N800 owner read that without feeling a bit more confident about their purchase.`
`14:56.44`	`*** join/#maemo lopz (n=gentoo-d@unaffiliated/lopz)`
`14:57.10`	`desertc`	`http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/08/03/11/1216211.shtml`
`14:57.41`	`*** join/#maemo hugolp (n=jo@unaffiliated/hugolp)`
`14:58.54`	`desertc`	`KotCzarny: Thanks again for your help. I'd better take my inane ramblings elsewhere! ;-)`
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`15:01.34`	`lopz`	`hi`
`15:03.47`	`dererk`	`hi`
`15:04.16`	`*** join/#maemo skibur (n=skibur@12.197.204.137)`
`15:08.07`	`*** join/#maemo T0b0tras (n=boris@ppp91-76-136-25.pppoe.mtu-net.ru)`
`15:12.14`	`*** join/#maemo johnx (n=john@softbank221106232002.bbtec.net)`
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`15:12.59`	`Dazgard`	`hi there`
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`15:13.07`	`Dazgard`	`are there any perl for maemo please ?`
`15:14.21`	`johnx`	`you mean, just a perl interpreter? or perl bindings for hildon?`
`15:14.51`	`Dazgard`	`both`
`15:15.11`	`Dazgard`	`but only the interpreter would be good`
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`15:15.14`	`johnx`	`well perl is already on the device...`
`15:15.19`	`johnx`	`so yes`
`15:15.30`	`Dazgard`	`cool`
`15:15.45`	`johnx`	`I think it's a dependency of dpkg or apt-get or something`
`15:15.45`	`Dazgard`	`are there bindings for hildon ?`
`15:15.52`	`Dazgard`	`ok`
`15:15.58`	`Dazgard`	`happy to read this`
`15:16.11`	`johnx`	`no hildon bindings are far as I know`
`15:16.14`	`johnx`	`but I haven't looked`
`15:16.32`	`Dazgard`	`ok, so i think, i'll try to stick with python`
`15:17.08`	`Dazgard`	`im trying to make an ardour (http://ardour.org) controller with my n800`
`15:17.30`	`johnx`	`ah, that would be neat`
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`15:18.58`	`denny`	`shame the perl bindings aren't there, you could have used gellyfish's module`
`15:20.29`	`*** join/#maemo morbec (n=morbec@189.19.4.78)`
`15:20.32`	`Dazgard`	`denny: ;)`
`15:21.09`	`h3sp4wn`	`denny: You know him ?`
`15:21.22`	`denny`	`we've met a few times, yeah`
`15:21.31`	`h3sp4wn`	`One of the best people I ever worked with`
`15:21.36`	`denny`	`perl conferences, that kind of thing`
`15:21.47`	`denny`	`we're both in London and on the london.pm irc channel`
`15:21.53`	`denny`	`or at least, I am when I'm not dying of deadline`
`15:21.55`	`denny`	`speaking of which...`
`15:24.08`	`bstock`	`hey on my n810 if i want to update from 50-2 to 51-3 OS, can i do that without wiping my nokia?`
`15:24.18`	`bstock`	`every time i've updated before i did a format, didn't know if that's necessary`
`15:25.22`	`johnx`	`there should be a way in this case, nothing is changed except for nolo (the nokia bootloader)`
`15:25.34`	`johnx`	`are you having the power on/off issue it fixes?`
`15:25.49`	`bstock`	`no, i haven't had any power issues`
`15:25.56`	`bstock`	`is that all it fixes? in that case i just wont bother`
`15:27.00`	`johnx`	`yeah, everything else is the same. You can use a parameter to the Linux flasher to have it not flash the rootfs`
`15:28.10`	`bstock`	`alright thx`
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`15:44.11`	`magicrobotmonkey`	`hey, i was trying to move maemo-mappers cache to my external card and I messed it all up, i ended up resetting the cache, now i only have openstreets as a repo, where do i get the others from?`
`15:45.00`	`aol_`	`can somebody point me a good tutorial to start learning maemo development? And is there books already on this?`
`15:45.37`	`glass`	`books would probably be outdated`
`15:45.42`	`magicrobotmonkey`	`nm me, im a doofus`
`15:46.09`	`aol_`	`yeah I guess maemo is moving target`
`15:46.40`	`johnx`	`aol_, this is the official tutorial: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/tutorials/maemo_4-0_tutorial.html`
`15:46.51`	`aol_`	`all right thanks`
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`15:49.21`	`pupnik`	`When i create a binary with -fprofile-generate, should I add 'tweaking' flags like -funroll-loops to the intial build? Should I add them to the -fprofile-use stage? Or if I leave them out, will gcc decide optimally where and whether to use such flags?`
`15:49.25`	`pupnik`	`for e.g. flags like`
`15:49.28`	`pupnik`	`fomit-frame-pointer -fforce-addr -fforce-mem -falign-loops=2 -falign-functions=2 -falign-jumps=2 -funroll-loops`
`15:50.09`	`*** join/#maemo jono (n=jono@ubuntu/member/jono)`
`15:50.14`	`jono`	`hey`
`15:50.19`	`jono`	`does quim gill come in here?`
`15:51.15`	`pupnik`	`don't recall seeing him`
`15:51.28`	`jono`	`thanks`
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`15:59.15`	`KotCzarny`	`yawn`
`15:59.21`	`KotCzarny`	`i'm sleepy`
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`16:25.29`	`doktoreas`	`hello everybody`
`16:25.31`	`doktoreas`	`jsut back :D`
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`16:27.56`	`pupnik`	`get to work KotCzarny`
`16:28.04`	`KotCzarny`	`i'm sleepy`
`16:28.08`	`pupnik`	`jhehe`
`16:28.10`	`KotCzarny`	`and have to do some non-comp work`
`16:28.18`	`KotCzarny`	`and i don't like it`
`16:28.23`	`*** join/#maemo wms (n=wms___@198.146.5.194)`
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`16:30.50`	`doktoreas`	`anyone using Maemo Mapper knows if it can be used with DGPS fix?`
`16:32.25`	`Navi`	`I was wondering, do you have to subscribe to a service to get a GPS fix?`
`16:32.41`	`pupnik`	`Navi, no`
`16:32.50`	`Navi`	`sweet`
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`16:33.19`	`doktoreas`	`Navi, are you using Maemo Mapper?`
`16:33.25`	`Navi`	`Nah`
`16:33.38`	`doktoreas`	`k`
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`16:34.59`	`bhima`	`Isn't a DGPS fix just a GPS fix with the GPS unit being slightly smarter?`
`16:35.48`	`Navi`	`pupnik, that was one of the reasons keeping me from getting a receiver :D`
`16:36.39`	`*** join/#maemo fab (n=bellet@bellet.info)`
`16:37.11`	`bhima`	`Navi: You're referring to just straight GPS reception? As in, do you need to pay the US department of defense to use GPS?`
`16:39.55`	`\|\|cw`	`not sure where you got the impression that you would need to pay`
`16:40.03`	`bhima`	`Navi: Do you have a job? Have you ever looked at your W2 statement? That's where you pay. :)`
`16:40.12`	`KotCzarny`	`http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=106408&postcount=16`
`16:40.12`	`KotCzarny`	`hehe`
`16:40.14`	`Navi`	`Heh`
`16:40.17`	`KotCzarny`	`ga being scorned`
`16:40.17`	`KotCzarny`	`:>`
`16:40.31`	`bhima`	`\|\|cw: The European GPS alternative includes subscription services as one of the options.`
`16:40.46`	`aol_`	`DGPS is better`
`16:40.49`	`\|\|cw`	`bhima: yes, and that's been a big deal because the US's is free`
`16:40.58`	`\|\|cw`	`and is available in many parts of the world`
`16:41.19`	`aol_`	`USA has "WAAS" and Europe has "EGNOS" systems`
`16:41.35`	`*** join/#maemo rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@gtsgw.ttc.cz)`
`16:41.40`	`aol_`	`this is done by satellite, so the correction signal comes from dedicated satellite`
`16:41.49`	`aol_`	`instead of the normal radio beacon approach`
`16:42.46`	`aol_`	`should be no problem to use maemo software (or any else) with DGPS fix`
`16:42.54`	`\|\|cw`	`radio beacon is for local correction to improve accuracy, accuracythat most people don't need`
`16:43.06`	`\|\|cw`	`do i care if it says in the right or left hand lane?`
`16:43.09`	`aol_`	`since in NMEA protocol it's just one parameter will be 2 instead of 1 ....`
`16:43.47`	`aol_`	`\|\|cw: depends on software. for me it's _very_ important`
`16:44.00`	`aol_`	`look my project at http://www.racechrono.com :)`
`16:44.07`	`\|\|cw`	`yes, and for those in which it is important, they pay to install a local beacon`
`16:44.24`	`aol_`	`not really feasible solution`
`16:44.36`	`aol_`	`a bit black and white approach there`
`16:44.50`	`\|\|cw`	`I see, interesting project`
`16:45.37`	`aol_`	`WAAS and EGNOS "satellite DGPS" are excellent for that`
`16:45.44`	`aol_`	`and use of them is free`
`16:45.54`	`aol_`	`you need just receiver that supports them`
`16:46.04`	`doktoreas`	`aol_, but is it possible right now using DGPS with meamo mapper?`
`16:46.23`	`doktoreas`	`i need to buy the whole system`
`16:46.32`	`aol_`	`doktoreas: well if you have receiver that supports WAAS or EGNOS depending which continent you live, yes`
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`16:46.45`	`doktoreas`	`nokia and receiver`
`16:46.50`	`doktoreas`	`nice`
`16:46.53`	`aol_`	`look at the specs`
`16:46.55`	`doktoreas`	`yep we have EGNOS`
`16:47.10`	`aol_`	`its not as accurate as radio beacon, but its better than without anything`
`16:47.30`	`\|\|cw`	`anything that speaks NMEA to the host can work with maemo mapper`
`16:47.33`	`doktoreas`	`thx for the info`
`16:47.50`	`doktoreas`	`aol_, any suggestion for receiver?`
`16:47.58`	`aol_`	`doktoreas: sorry not really`
`16:48.26`	`aol_`	`I have tried some MTK chipset ones and it works after sending the chipset some commands`
`16:48.35`	`aol_`	`but not all receivers accept any commans`
`16:48.42`	`bhima`	`I thought I'd read that WAAS and EGNOS used the same or similar protocols and were easy to get on one receiver.`
`16:48.45`	`aol_`	`the command was to enable "EGNOS test satellites"`
`16:49.09`	`aol_`	`atleast in finland you need that to be able to use EGNOS (probably the only official satellite can not be seen from here)`
`16:49.16`	`aol_`	`but test satellites work well`
`16:49.38`	`KotCzarny`	`hasn't egnos go official already?`
`16:49.48`	`aol_`	`bhima: they are pretty similar but for some reason you need a receiver that supports the right one`
`16:50.46`	`bhima`	`aol_: They use the same spectrum as GPS, right? So they're easy for hardware designers to add to the system.`
`16:50.50`	`aol_`	`KotCzarny: "EGNOS is now fully deployed and in its pre-operational phase. The system will undergo certification for safety-of-life applications before becoming fully operational."`
`16:51.05`	`aol_`	`bhima: yeah its just software that is needed`
`16:52.11`	`doktoreas`	`so won't easy fine a right receiver`
`16:52.11`	`aol_`	`I guess you need to turn on that "test bit" to enable use of those pre-operational transmitters`
`16:52.27`	`aol_`	`well`
`16:52.35`	`doktoreas`	`*find`
`16:52.43`	`aol_`	`try cheap Holux 1000 from ebay`
`16:53.01`	`aol_`	`msg me I'll send you specs what to send to that chipset to enable the test bit`
`16:53.08`	`aol_`	`when you get it`
`16:53.15`	`aol_`	`they are like 50 eur`
`16:53.23`	`doktoreas`	`aol_, are you a MM developer?`
`16:53.44`	`aol_`	`future maemo developer hopefully`
`16:53.51`	`aol_`	`currently I do stuff for symbian`
`16:54.08`	`aol_`	`want to port my app to maemo`
`16:54.18`	`bhima`	`doktoreas: There are lots of EGNOS compatible receivers.`
`16:54.18`	`aol_`	`+I`
`16:54.18`	dtahtbot`	`aol_: Error: "I" is not a valid command.`
`16:54.53`	`aol_`	`bhima: but you need to enable the test bit :/`
`16:55.44`	`doktoreas`	`bhima, any suggestion is nice :D`
`16:56.19`	`bhima`	`doktoreas: Well, I have a Garmin GPS 76, but that's an old model.`
`16:56.58`	`aol_`	`bhima: where do you live?`
`16:57.38`	`aol_`	`I mean atleast it's impossible to get egnos fix in Finland without that test bit enabling. Central europeans might be luckier`
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`16:58.30`	`bhima`	`aol_: US right now. I think I got a fix in Germany with my GPS 76 but I don't remember for sure.`
`16:58.48`	`aol_`	`all right, WAAS is a bliss there :)`
`16:59.23`	`doktoreas`	`i have about 200 € to invest in receiver`
`16:59.23`	`aol_`	`I've seen some WAAS vs. plain GPS comparisions and seems rather impressive`
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`17:02.31`	`doktoreas`	`aol_, last thing, how is the download of gpx trax with windows?`
`17:02.42`	`doktoreas`	`the nokia is seen as a storage device?`
`17:02.51`	`KotCzarny`	`yes`
`17:02.57`	`KotCzarny`	`at least sd cards`
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`17:03.23`	`doktoreas`	`k`
`17:03.56`	`*** join/#maemo smackpotato (n=user@69.158.250.136)`
`17:05.18`	`aol_`	`doktoreas: sorry I don't know`
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`17:25.37`	`plb`	`Is there a limit to the size sdhc card that will work on n800? was wondering if the 16gb will work`
`17:25.47`	`KotCzarny`	`probably`
`17:25.58`	`GnutoN810`	`hi`
`17:26.17`	`johnx`	`16GB will work`
`17:26.18`	`KotCzarny`	`in the worst case you will have to partition it`
`17:26.28`	`johnx`	`KotCzarny, that makes no sense at all`
`17:26.30`	`johnx`	`:)`
`17:26.38`	`KotCzarny`	`johnx: just guessing`
`17:26.39`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`17:26.49`	`KotCzarny`	`and notice 'in the worst case'`
`17:27.07`	`plb`	`Was looking at this sdhc card specifically.. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211245`
`17:27.08`	`johnx`	`if it's over the max size supported then it won't work`
`17:27.13`	`*** join/#maemo bilboed (n=bilboed@pdpc/supporter/active/bilboed)`
`17:27.14`	`johnx`	`the current SDHC spec released supports up to 32GB`
`17:27.18`	`KotCzarny`	`but there's a rumour that 16gb takes more power`
`17:27.30`	`aol_`	`great price`
`17:27.35`	`bilboed`	`hmm... ksoftirqd is taking all available cpu on my n800 with os2008`
`17:27.43`	`bilboed`	`any see that issue before ?`
`17:27.50`	`bilboed`	`it's draining my battery like mad`
`17:28.00`	`KotCzarny`	`bbl`
`17:28.07`	`johnx`	`does it keep doing that through a reboot?`
`17:28.15`	`bilboed`	`yeah`
`17:28.36`	`fysa`	`turn off and take the battery out for a sec`
`17:28.47`	`johnx`	`and unplug it (if applicable)`
`17:28.47`	`plb`	`btw any know how many hours of just straight audio playback can be expected`
`17:28.55`	`fysa`	`right, make sure there's no power so it can really shot off.`
`17:28.57`	`fysa`	`.. shut off.`
`17:29.10`	`fysa`	`http://blip.tv/file/733960?filename=Chippysteve-GigabyteM528UserInterface102.wmv`
`17:29.18`	`fysa`	`new Gigabyte M528 (Ubuntu Mobile) video if anyone is interested.`
`17:29.29`	`johnx`	`cool`
`17:29.59`	`bilboed`	`nce`
`17:29.59`	`plb`	`eww wmv file`
`17:30.09`	`johnx`	`oh noes!`
`17:30.23`	`fysa`	`it's a web stream.`
`17:30.27`	`fysa`	`with flash player I think.`
`17:30.33`	`fysa`	`HD`
`17:30.41`	`czr`	`with harley davidson?`
`17:30.42`	`johnx`	`it's a wmv file I think`
`17:30.42`	`bilboed`	`mkay... now it's jff2_gcd_mtd4 which is maxing the cpu`
`17:30.44`	`fysa`	`oh maybe no flash`
`17:30.56`	`bilboed`	`ah ... no, it's done now`
`17:31.07`	`fysa`	`http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76NviXg_1g4`
`17:31.14`	`fysa`	`flash via Youtube, but lower res`
`17:32.48`	`pupnik`	`i need newer gcc`
`17:32.57`	`pupnik`	`too many problems with 3.4`
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`17:33.10`	`plb`	`that thing is a phone?`
`17:33.19`	`johnx`	`nope`
`17:33.26`	`plb`	`ah`
`17:33.31`	`plb`	`neat openoffice`
`17:33.57`	`plb`	`wonder when that thing comes out`
`17:34.03`	`plb`	`and the price`
`17:34.06`	`johnx`	`sometime this year`
`17:34.08`	`johnx`	`Q3 I think`
`17:34.35`	`plb`	`neat`
`17:34.41`	`johnx`	`and it has a tab key O_o`
`17:34.46`	`plb`	`probably be expensive as hell`
`17:34.57`	`johnx`	`supposed to be 700 Euros`
`17:35.01`	`plb`	`damn`
`17:35.04`	`aol_`	`should be rather easy to port maemo stuff for that ubuntu mobile?`
`17:35.22`	`aol_`	`python and gtk atleast`
`17:35.23`	`johnx`	`as long as you don't depend on Nokia closed source stuff`
`17:35.34`	`aol_`	`all right`
`17:35.35`	`plb`	`I don't think I'll be buying it for that price`
`17:35.40`	`aol_`	`and all apis can be ported anyway`
`17:35.47`	`aol_`	`or wrapped I mean`
`17:36.36`	`aol_`	`plb: I'm thinking about business, supporting as many platform as possible easily :)`
`17:38.30`	`plb`	`true`
`17:38.48`	`plb`	`I'm still waiting for debian on the n800/810 to become usable`
`17:38.50`	`plb`	`heh`
`17:38.58`	`johnx`	`so lend a hand :P`
`17:39.12`	`johnx`	`see if you can work out sound stuff`
`17:39.28`	`*** join/#maemo mazzen (n=mortel@vpn-ce242010.extern.uni-duisburg-essen.de)`
`17:39.34`	`plb`	`who's from nyc again?`
`17:41.29`	`plb`	`has anyone tested to see how long the battery last for just audio playback?`
`17:41.37`	`plb`	`in offline mode`
`17:41.40`	`plb`	`kinda like an mp3 player`
`17:42.23`	`johnx`	`anyways, if you just wait for debian chances are it will take a long time. I'll be a lot more motivated to work on it if other people help...`
`17:42.25`	`johnx`	`'night`
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`18:14.58`	`*** part/#maemo alterego (n=alterego@88-109-92-119.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)`
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`18:15.49`	`pepie34`	`hy`
`18:15.53`	`pepie34`	`hie`
`18:16.09`	`pepie34`	`is there a way to clean the keyboard cache on maemo?`
`18:18.23`	`*** join/#maemo fab (n=bellet@bellet.info)`
`18:19.23`	`pupnik`	`dosbox.gcno`
`18:19.29`	`pupnik`	`there, google didn't have that word yet`
`18:19.44`	`*** join/#maemo alex-weej (n=alex@cpc1-acto9-0-0-cust931.brnt.cable.ntl.com)`
`18:22.30`	`*** join/#maemo lindever__ (n=eton@ppp-58-8-4-145.revip2.asianet.co.th)`
`18:23.24`	`*** join/#maemo morbec (n=morbec@189.19.4.78)`
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`18:28.40`	`pupnik`	`Tip: if your vmware scratchbox is running out of room, clear out /scratchbox/ccache`
`18:28.46`	`pupnik`	`it can grow to hundreds of megabytes`
`18:30.31`	`pupnik`	`not to mention /var/cache/apt/archives`
`18:31.08`	`pupnik`	`jott: ping ?`
`18:33.10`	`*** join/#maemo qwerty12 (n=we@84.9.55.34)`
`18:33.32`	`pepie34`	`if you use xterm and do an ssh on it, the passwd is recorded in the keyboard cache, how can i erased it ?`
`18:35.17`	`Navi`	`lol`
`18:36.31`	`pepie34`	`hildon does not recognize when you type a passwd on a term windows`
`18:36.41`	`pepie34`	`so it records it on the cache`
`18:36.51`	`*** join/#maemo playya (n=playya@pD9E0A873.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`18:36.51`	`pepie34`	`that's not cool`
`18:36.54`	`pepie34`	`:(`
`18:37.27`	`Veggen`	`pepie: OS2007?`
`18:37.31`	`pepie34`	`yes`
`18:38.11`	`Veggen`	`OS2008 is changed in that way - the cache isn't used in xterm.`
`18:38.29`	`pepie34`	`but it ther a way to ereased it`
`18:38.31`	`pepie34`	`?`
`18:40.14`	`*** join/#maemo Zword (n=Zword@bos94-3-82-226-234-106.fbx.proxad.net)`
`18:40.33`	`fysa`	`from the control panel, under keyboard settings`
`18:40.51`	`fysa`	`you can reset the database for it I believe somewhere. the same place you can disable it entirely.`
`18:41.09`	`pepie34`	`look at it now`
`18:41.15`	`pepie34`	`but i have searched there`
`18:41.24`	`*** join/#maemo lcuk (i=lcuk@cpc2-oldh5-0-0-cust994.manc.cable.ntl.com)`
`18:42.44`	`pepie34`	`can't find it`
`18:42.46`	`*** join/#maemo qwerty13 (n=user@84.9.55.34)`
`18:42.47`	`*** join/#maemo zwnj (n=behnam@213.207.218.102)`
`18:42.53`	`jott`	`pupnik: pong`
`18:43.32`	`*** join/#maemo DaniloCesar (n=DaniloCe@nat/mandriva/x-b8fe9b16abf3f4d6)`
`18:43.38`	`*** join/#maemo buddylee (n=ryanc@cpe-024-162-254-083.nc.res.rr.com)`
`18:45.39`	`pupnik`	`jott which packages from http://scratchbox.org/~jhakala/unofficial/ do I install? should I make a new sb armel target?`
`18:45.55`	`*** join/#maemo gopi (n=gopi@63.83.135.35)`
`18:46.01`	`pupnik`	`gcc 3.4 is broken for profile-generation purposes`
`18:46.59`	`pupnik`	`also apt-cache search scratchbox shows me scratchbox-toolchain-arm-gcc4.1-uclibc20061004 - arm-gcc4.1-uclibc20061004 compiler for Scratchbox`
`18:47.36`	`pupnik`	`so if i install that on my host, will i get gcc 4.1 in my existing sb armel target?`
`18:47.55`	`*** part/#maemo jegp (n=jegp@main.netvision.com.py)`
`18:50.31`	`pepie34`	`fysa i can't find the erase database thing`
`18:50.41`	`pepie34`	`wether in keayboard or input methods`
`18:50.52`	`*** join/#maemo Masca (n=Masca@189.153.63.68)`
`18:50.57`	`fysa`	`I thought there was. :)`
`18:50.59`	`fysa`	`one sec`
`18:52.50`	`*** join/#maemo Navi (n=not_root@ppp-70-245-128-143.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net)`
`18:53.11`	`*** join/#maemo frade (n=ivan@a88-114-90-214.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`18:53.18`	`fysa`	`ah, my device is in the car.`
`18:53.34`	`fysa`	`from xterm in $HOME or ~, I would try something like .. "grep -R commonword *"`
`18:53.37`	`fysa`	`or ls -a`
`18:53.52`	`fysa`	`and look for a hidden directory that starts with .`
`18:54.20`	`pepie34`	`oki thanks`
`18:55.02`	`*** part/#maemo qwerty13 (n=user@84.9.55.34)`
`18:55.06`	`fysa`	`you could grep for your password or something else you know is in the prediction dictionary`
`18:56.00`	`*** join/#maemo playya (n=playya@pD9E0A873.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`18:58.29`	`pepie34`	`not in the user folder`
`18:59.19`	`*** join/#maemo richieeee72 (n=richard@host86-151-146-90.range86-151.btcentralplus.com)`
`19:00.16`	`*** join/#maemo qwerty12 (n=user@84.9.55.34)`
`19:01.00`	`*** join/#maemo hfwilke (n=hwilke_@gateway.GRAYINSCO.COM)`
`19:01.04`	`pepie34`	`fysa found`
`19:01.17`	`fysa`	`cool`
`19:01.18`	`pepie34`	`.osso/hildon-input-method/.used.dictionary`
`19:01.24`	`fysa`	`aha`
`19:01.27`	`fysa`	`nice.`
`19:01.40`	`fysa`	`maybe I should fill that with commonly-typed xterm commands.`
`19:02.46`	`*** join/#maemo hfwilke (n=hwilke_@gateway.GRAYINSCO.COM)`
`19:05.44`	`*** join/#maemo krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132)`
`19:05.46`	`jott`	`pupnik: you can just install the debs ( http://scratchbox.org/~jhakala/unofficial/ ) and use sb-menu to change the toolchain (you could also create another target to make it cleaner)`
`19:06.14`	`jott`	`it's also possible to change SBOX_CROSS_GCC_* in your config to the cs2007 toolchain`
`19:06.43`	`jott`	`and uclibc is definitely wrong :)`
`19:07.37`	`pupnik`	`ok thanks`
`19:09.49`	`pupnik`	`you mentioned building with 4.2. i have a little patch to generate avg fps display for uae4all. pls let me know if you find any positive effects to gcc 4.2 optimizations`
`19:10.10`	`morbec`	`do I need something extra before to install PyMaemo on scratchbox?`
`19:10.46`	`lmoura`	`morbec, did you add repository.maemo.org/extras to sources.list?`
`19:12.16`	`morbec`	`lmoura, yes ... i got problems when the some packages are trying to configure itself`
`19:12.34`	`lmoura`	`what command did you use to install?`
`19:13.03`	`morbec`	`apt-get install python2.5-runtime`
`19:13.49`	`jott`	`morbec: maybe you have to use "fakeroot apt-get install python2.5-runtime"`
`19:14.29`	`morbec`	`jott, ok .. i will try`
`19:14.46`	`*** part/#maemo aol_ (n=aol@nblzone-225-22.nblnetworks.fi)`
`19:16.52`	`jott`	`pupnik: well gcc 4.2 can optimize better sometimes - not sure if uae will benefit much from it.. the core is asm anyway`
`19:17.43`	`*** join/#maemo thopiekar (n=thopieka@p57A155C3.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`19:18.33`	`pupnik`	`jott -fprofile-generate yielded significant gains in uae4all. I want to try it with dosbox but gcc3.4 profiling (gcov) is broken`
`19:18.44`	`pupnik`	`ok so i have scratchbox-core 1.0.8`
`19:19.11`	`pupnik`	`http://scratchbox.org/~jhakala/unofficial/scratchbox-toolchain-arm-linux-cs2007q3-51sb1_1.0.7~20071012154500-1_i386.deb so this is the toolchain i need?`
`19:19.23`	`pupnik`	`(sb1)`
`19:19.30`	`*** join/#maemo Masca (n=Masca@189.153.63.68)`
`19:19.32`	`*** part/#maemo thopiekar (n=thopieka@p57A155C3.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`19:20.35`	`jott`	`i think so.. not sure what the difference is but the sb1 worked here`
`19:21.00`	`*** join/#maemo Nazgul-N810 (n=Nazgul@79.23.147.23)`
`19:21.21`	`Nazgul-N810`	`hello`
`19:21.26`	`jott`	`hello`
`19:22.03`	`Nazgul-N810`	`hi`
`19:22.23`	`pupnik`	`jott, so the toolchain is all i need to install to create a new target with gcc4.2?`
`19:22.39`	`jott`	`afair it sufficient`
`19:22.43`	`jott`	`its`
`19:22.46`	`pupnik`	`thanks`
`19:23.14`	`jott`	`just keep in mind that this can easily break binary compatibility :)`
`19:23.52`	`*** join/#maemo dhd (n=dhuggins@LIMA.LTI.CS.CMU.EDU)`
`19:24.04`	`*** part/#maemo qwerty12 (n=user@84.9.55.34)`
`19:24.07`	`dhd`	`hi, have the oprofile packages been updated for ITOS2008?`
`19:24.54`	`pupnik`	`thanks jott. gcc compile profiling is just too good to pass up. i must use it`
`19:25.05`	`jott`	`:)`
`19:25.06`	`pupnik`	`and 3.4 breaks dosbox`
`19:25.11`	`dhd`	`:) alternately ... gprof works now?!`
`19:25.17`	`jott`	`3.4.4 is broken anyway :P`
`19:26.20`	`morbec`	`jott, i got the same error, can you look at please? http://rafb.net/p/hFLHvd39.html`
`19:26.46`	`pupnik`	`dhd i think gprof is x86-only?`
`19:27.06`	`dhd`	`hmm, I just saw you say "gcc compile profiling" and I thought you were talking about it`
`19:27.15`	`jott`	`morbec: hmm i think there where other with missing users.. don't know what the actual cause was..`
`19:27.20`	`dhd`	`I think I have used gprof on ARM, although not on armel`
`19:27.32`	`dhd`	`oprofile is actually a bit more useful anyway`
`19:27.36`	`*** join/#maemo crashanddie (n=crashand@lns-bzn-47f-81-56-209-63.adsl.proxad.net)`
`19:27.36`	`pupnik`	`building with -fprofile-generate, running on device, copying .gcda files back to scratchbox, then compiling with -fprofile-use`
`19:27.44`	`jott`	`dhd: oprofile works fine on os2008`
`19:28.04`	`dhd`	`jott: sweet, is it built into the os2008 kernel?`
`19:28.12`	`jott`	`no`
`19:28.17`	`jott`	`you have to boot an other kernel`
`19:28.25`	`dhd`	`are there precompiled ones around?`
`19:28.25`	`jott`	`there is a howto in the wiki...`
`19:28.28`	`dhd`	`ahhh`
`19:28.29`	`jott`	`yeah`
`19:28.30`	`dhd`	`thanks`
`19:28.52`	`jott`	`google oprofile maemo :)`
`19:29.04`	`dhd`	`thanks, sorry for dumb questions :)`
`19:29.05`	`jott`	`i think you have to adjunst the kernel revision ;)`
`19:29.28`	`dhd`	`yeah I had it working in ITOS2007`
`19:29.34`	`dhd`	`just wasn't sure about 2008`
`19:30.13`	`jott`	`yeah just follow (basically) http://maemo.org/development/tools/doc/oprofile/ .. the -200743 has changed but i guess that's not too hard to find out ;)`
`19:30.26`	`h3sp4wn`	`Has anyone compiled a kernel with the realview compiler for maemo ?`
`19:30.31`	`dhd`	`another potentially annoying question, does anyone know what the properties of the cache are on the CPU in the N800/N810`
`19:30.35`	`dhd`	`e.g. size, associativity`
`19:31.09`	`elb`	`you're going to want to reference the OMAP documentation for that`
`19:31.14`	`dhd`	`yeah`
`19:31.23`	`dhd`	`it is an OMAP2430 right?`
`19:31.41`	`pH5`	`2420`
`19:31.45`	`dhd`	`ahh`
`19:32.30`	`pH5`	`but never mind, it's the same arm core :)`
`19:34.29`	`pupnik`	`32kb instructino 32kb data`
`19:34.33`	`pupnik`	`don't know assoc`
`19:34.38`	`dhd`	`yeah`
`19:34.54`	`pupnik`	`arm1136j-s`
`19:34.59`	`*** part/#maemo oilinki (n=oil@ppp-124-120-2-177.revip2.asianet.co.th)`
`19:35.17`	`dhd`	`4-way set associative, apparently`
`19:37.41`	`*** join/#maemo pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@p54BEB0B7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
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`19:44.10`	`ywwg`	`how do I make labels in a panel applet transparent? The text in the clock applet, for instance, is properly transparent, but my own text, which are just regular gtk labels, have an opaque background`
`19:44.39`	`ywwg`	`(this only shows up if the panel background is set to anything other than system)`
`19:48.55`	`KotCzarny`	`yawn`
`19:49.03`	`KotCzarny`	`i should really take some sleep`
`19:50.44`	`*** join/#maemo qwerty12 (n=user@84.9.55.34)`
`19:50.59`	`cLin`	`oh what the hell`
`19:51.05`	`cLin`	`my desktop keeps resetting`
`19:51.10`	`KotCzarny`	`corruption!`
`19:51.13`	`cLin`	`fucking bug`
`19:51.15`	`cLin`	`its a bug right?`
`19:51.40`	`KotCzarny`	`you should be reported for breaking the desktop`
`19:51.52`	`cLin`	`im going to kill everyone now`
`19:52.09`	`KotCzarny`	`good`
`19:52.18`	`KotCzarny`	`start from the nearest person (you)`
`19:52.19`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`19:52.26`	`cLin`	`its already been done`
`19:52.39`	`KotCzarny`	`nope, i see you're still alive`
`19:52.48`	`cLin`	`this is my computer talking`
`19:52.48`	`KotCzarny`	`btw. is it full device reset or just wm?`
`19:53.06`	`cLin`	`wm i guess`
`19:53.23`	`KotCzarny`	`try sshing and looking around`
`19:53.25`	`cLin`	`one minute i leave it alone, next minute it's back to default. and not the theme or wallpaper`
`19:53.34`	`cLin`	`just the status bar and left sidebar`
`19:53.54`	`KotCzarny`	`maybe some rogue status bar app`
`19:54.00`	`qwerty12`	`That happens too when it is force killed 2`
`19:55.07`	`cLin`	`yea, i saw someone else list that bug when their BT keyboard connects`
`19:55.19`	`cLin`	`what's the command for control panel?`
`19:55.49`	`KotCzarny`	`try sniffing around /home/user dir`
`19:57.02`	`pupnik`	`if I set up a new target for gcc 4.2 do i have to extract a new rootstrap? or can i just symlink my old chinook rootstrap`
`19:57.19`	`qwerty12`	`controlpanel works 4 me in xterm @clin`
`19:57.54`	`cLin`	`clin@debian:~$ controlpanel`
`19:57.54`	`cLin`	`-sh: controlpanel: command not found`
`19:58.17`	`KotCzarny`	`Nokia-N800-51-3:/mnt/1/20/uae4all_gp2x_0.7.2a-data# which controlpanel`
`19:58.24`	`KotCzarny`	`<PROTECTED>`
`19:59.00`	`pupnik`	`wheee`
`19:59.43`	`pupnik`	`gcc version 4.2.1`
`19:59.43`	`KotCzarny`	`pupnik: report as soon as you get the results :)`
`20:01.02`	`KotCzarny`	`get more cpu power`
`20:01.04`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`20:01.13`	`*** join/#maemo geaaru (n=geaaru@host222-222-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)`
`20:01.21`	`*** join/#maemo morbec (n=morbec@189.19.4.78)`
`20:03.14`	`*** join/#maemo Pio__ (n=sean@64.251.10.106)`
`20:03.27`	`morbec`	`how can I fix this? ==> /scratchbox/tools/bin/sh: line 1: /usr/sbin/dpkg-preconfigure: No such file or directory`
`20:03.47`	`KotCzarny`	`morbec: use nokia's provided scripts?`
`20:03.56`	`KotCzarny`	`to install sb, that is`
`20:04.17`	`pupnik`	`is this related to -rfakeroot ?`
`20:04.53`	`*** join/#maemo Tama^2 (n=me@ip-118-90-104-210.xdsl.xnet.co.nz)`
`20:05.10`	`morbec`	`i am trying to install python maemo on scratchbox`
`20:05.49`	`lmoura`	`morbec, how did you get these errors?`
`20:06.30`	`morbec`	`I ran fakeroot apt-get install python2.5-runtime`
`20:06.48`	`lmoura`	`chinook?`
`20:07.12`	`morbec`	`yes`
`20:07.30`	`lmoura`	`which sbox? from ubuntu or maemo script?`
`20:07.45`	`lmoura`	`(I mean manual installation)`
`20:07.55`	`morbec`	`i used maemo script to install scratchbox and maemo`
`20:08.02`	`lmoura`	`hum`
`20:08.32`	`KotCzarny`	`weird`
`20:08.38`	`lmoura`	`did you try fakeroot apt-get dist-upgrade?`
`20:08.53`	`morbec`	`no`
`20:08.55`	`KotCzarny`	`btw. are you installing python in sb?`
`20:09.00`	`KotCzarny`	`then you don't use fakeroot`
`20:09.14`	`KotCzarny`	`ie. if you're logged into sb`
`20:09.19`	`morbec`	`i got the same error without the fakeroot`
`20:09.21`	`KotCzarny`	`you treat it as 'device'`
`20:09.40`	`KotCzarny`	`are you logged into sb and target is selected?`
`20:09.45`	`morbec`	`yes`
`20:10.39`	`*** join/#maemo a-l-e (n=ale@9-71.76-83.cust.bluewin.ch)`
`20:11.14`	`KotCzarny`	`were there any errors during sb+sdk installation?`
`20:11.33`	`morbec`	`no`
`20:12.03`	`KotCzarny`	`it looks like an incomplete install for me`
`20:12.20`	`morbec`	`I'm running atp-get dist-upgrade now then I will try again`
`20:12.28`	`KotCzarny`	`or not`
`20:12.33`	`KotCzarny`	`i don't have /usr/sbin/dpkg-preconfigure too`
`20:12.52`	`KotCzarny`	`but i have installet packaged via apt-get in sb without a problem`
`20:13.20`	`KotCzarny`	`installed`
`20:13.28`	`*** join/#maemo djcb (n=djcb@a88-112-252-116.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`20:14.25`	`morbec`	`i don't know what can be because I followed the instructions in the PyMaemo website ...`
`20:14.39`	`KotCzarny`	`is it instruction for sb or device?`
`20:14.52`	`morbec`	`sb`
`20:15.29`	`lmoura`	`http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/sdk_installation.html`
`20:15.30`	`lmoura`	`?`
`20:16.02`	`jott`	`KotCzarny: it's better to use fakeroot within scratchbox, some postinst stuff breaks without it`
`20:16.20`	`morbec`	`http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/index.html#news`
`20:16.22`	`KotCzarny`	`jott: i believe fakeroot is only for building packages`
`20:16.27`	`jott`	`no`
`20:16.27`	`a-l-e`	`5Chello. i don't if i'm in the good channel... i'm trying to figure out how to change some keys on the n810 but i can't get any interesting value from xev.`
`20:16.59`	`jott`	`sbox runs in user context`
`20:17.15`	`Veggen`	`a-l-e: hmm. which keys?`
`20:17.29`	`*** part/#maemo ywwg (n=owen@66.92.95.82)`
`20:17.37`	`Veggen`	`(I successfully made some xmodmap-scripts once, probably by using xev)`
`20:17.39`	`KotCzarny`	`jott: sbox is chrooted`
`20:17.40`	`a-l-e`	`what i would like to do, is to modify the zoom keys in page up and down... and to get a tab on the keyboard (fn+return?)`
`20:17.58`	`KotCzarny`	`that's why i assumed it's ok to go with it`
`20:18.21`	`a-l-e`	`Veggen: i'd also like to have some { } []`
`20:18.22`	`jott`	`KotCzarny: try chown to a different user`
`20:18.33`	`KotCzarny`	`jott: better not`
`20:18.35`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`20:18.46`	`KotCzarny`	`works for now`
`20:18.53`	`KotCzarny`	`and i'm happy with it`
`20:20.29`	`a-l-e`	`i also have a german keyboard and would like to have é as shift+ö :-)`
`20:20.30`	`jott`	`KotCzarny: well "touch foo && chown nobody foo && echo YEAH" vs. "touch foo && fakeroot chown nobody foo && echo YEAH"`
`20:21.21`	`morbec`	`I installed scratchbox using sudo, is it all right?`
`20:21.39`	`a-l-e`	`ach ok! i can run xev from a ssh session and then type the keys on the n810! so i directly see the output!!!!!`
`20:22.06`	`KotCzarny`	`a-l-e: we're glad we could help`
`20:22.07`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
`20:22.08`	`jott`	`morbec: yeah, the host tools (debs) have to be installed as root`
`20:22.23`	`a-l-e`	`it's all about the karma :-)`
`20:22.44`	`*** join/#maemo f_mohr (n=f_mohr@dslb-084-058-226-128.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`20:22.45`	`KotCzarny`	`and aura`
`20:22.46`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`20:23.04`	`KotCzarny`	`wisdom sipping through tcp/ip`
`20:23.15`	`Veggen`	`a-l-e: The file you probably want to modify is /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-44, btw :)`
`20:23.33`	`KotCzarny`	`xmodmap?`
`20:23.34`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`20:24.16`	`a-l-e`	`i was thinking about creating a .xmodmap and loading it manually... but i'll take a look at the rx-44 file!`
`20:24.18`	`*** join/#maemo sven-tek (i=linux@p508EE5E1.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`20:24.42`	`jott`	`it's better to use rx-44 than xmodmap`
`20:24.49`	`jott`	`use/modify`
`20:25.03`	`morbec`	`ok ... i will do the follow ... I run the command sb-reinstall, then I will do dist-upgrade and install again the pymaemo`
`20:25.03`	`a-l-e`	`jott: ok!`
`20:25.05`	`*** join/#maemo wasabi (n=wasabi@207.55.182.70)`
`20:25.18`	`wasabi`	`So does the n810 have any expansion bay capabilities other than the USB/`
`20:25.41`	`Veggen`	`wasabi: uhm...mini-SD? bluetooth?`
`20:25.59`	`KotCzarny`	`wifi too`
`20:26.24`	`wasabi`	`let me be more specific. any arbitrary device expansion capabilities that do not involve wireless.`
`20:26.35`	`KotCzarny`	`what are you lloking for?`
`20:26.37`	`KotCzarny`	`looking`
`20:26.46`	`wasabi`	`potential for connecting an expresscard to it in some crazy ass way.`
`20:26.52`	`KotCzarny`	`hmm`
`20:26.55`	`wasabi`	`which will probably end up being usb`
`20:26.56`	`KotCzarny`	`there was usb adapter`
`20:26.58`	`KotCzarny`	`for that`
`20:27.25`	`KotCzarny`	`otherwise yes, usb is the only option`
`20:28.04`	`jott`	`doesn't the minisd port support sdio?`
`20:28.38`	`a-l-e`	`i'm also trying to get a lan usb card or to let a mac mini share its connection through bluetooth :-) ... but no success up to now :-(`
`20:28.53`	`KotCzarny`	`jott: you will have to find mini sdio card first`
`20:28.53`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
`20:29.18`	`KotCzarny`	`in n800 it's easier`
`20:29.34`	`wasabi`	`Just screwing around with possibilities. For instance, connecting a HSUDA card to it, with voice support.`
`20:29.35`	`jott`	`well there are wifi cards and some other stuff`
`20:29.40`	`wasabi`	`And coming up with a dialer app of some sort.`
`20:29.44`	`KotCzarny`	`another reason that n800 is superior`
`20:29.45`	`wasabi`	`HSUPA`
`20:29.45`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`20:30.07`	`jott`	`no keyboard is just a killer..`
`20:30.15`	`KotCzarny`	`go external`
`20:30.27`	`jott`	`on the road?!`
`20:30.30`	`KotCzarny`	`yes`
`20:30.57`	`KotCzarny`	`n800 shape allows keyboard to be stored with it :)`
`20:31.00`	`Robot101`	`wasabi: it'd be cooler to hook in tp-phony from gnome phone manager so you could drive it with the built-in chat/call UIs :)`
`20:31.14`	`wasabi`	`Yeah. I suspect it would come to that.`
`20:31.21`	`jott`	`store but not USE`
`20:31.25`	`wasabi`	`Hardware is the main obstacle though.`
`20:31.25`	`jott`	`e.g. while walking`
`20:31.36`	`pupnik`	`jott btw to get my new armel42 target compiling i'm linking /scratchbox/users/maemo/targets/CHINOOK_ARMEL/usr/ to /scratchbox/users/maemo/targets/armel42/usr/ to save space. seems to work`
`20:31.47`	`KotCzarny`	`using electronic devices while walking is dangerous`
`20:31.47`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
`20:31.53`	`jott`	`pupnik: well you could just switch configs files then :)`
`20:32.10`	`jott`	`naa..`
`20:32.11`	`Robot101`	`wasabi: throw a beat-up bluetooth phone in your backpack and work out how to make the N800 pretend to be a USB headset?`
`20:32.14`	`a-l-e`	`i'm happy with the n810 keyboard... or will be once i've modded a bit its layout :-)`
`20:32.17`	`qwerty12`	`A quick question, is there a command (if so an example please ) that recursivly copies one folders contents ;including sub and sub-sub folders etc to another folder ; not overwriting any files in the destination folder with the same name but copies everything else? I ask because I want the extras of the Maemo SDK VMWare Appliance on my real scratchbox installed on gutsy and i have 4.0.1 and i believe the Maemo SDK VMWare Appliance has 4.0. Sorry for my bad t`
`20:32.28`	`jott`	`yeah you have to mod the n810 layout to make it usable`
`20:32.35`	`jott`	`but then it's pretty neat`
`20:32.42`	`a-l-e`	`qwerty12: cp -ru ?`
`20:32.43`	`wasabi`	`Robot101: Short term thats fine. Long term it doesn't really help... I'm only doing this because I'm tired of crappy phones and would rather carry around the n810.`
`20:32.43`	`KotCzarny`	`qwerty12: cp -a`
`20:32.56`	`qwerty12`	`Thanks :)`
`20:32.58`	`KotCzarny`	`-a preserves misc things`
`20:33.00`	`*** join/#maemo GNUton (n=GNUton@kde/developer/aloisio)`
`20:33.03`	`KotCzarny`	`but use tar`
`20:33.08`	`wasabi`	`Was thinking about grabbing one of these USB things, wirign it up, and affixing it to the back of the n810.`
`20:33.08`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`20:33.09`	`jott`	`http://www.oztion.com.au/-mini-SDIO-miniSD-video-adapter-pda-projector-monitor/auction/2989738.aspx speaking of minisd :)`
`20:33.26`	`a-l-e`	`qwerty12: but you'd better check the man page of cp :-)`
`20:33.34`	`GNUton`	`sera\|evening!`
`20:33.39`	`pupnik`	`wowww`
`20:33.50`	`qwerty12`	`Ok will do, thanks.`
`20:34.18`	`KotCzarny`	`jott: nice`
`20:34.44`	`jott`	`wonder if this would work with linux/n8x0`
`20:34.46`	`*** join/#maemo dolske (n=dolske@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com)`
`20:34.55`	`Robot101`	`wasabi: stick a nokia 6500 to the back of it? it's pretty small. :)`
`20:34.55`	`KotCzarny`	`dreamer..`
`20:34.56`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`20:35.06`	`*** join/#maemo christefano (n=christef@pool-68-239-44-155.bos.east.verizon.net)`
`20:35.25`	`wasabi`	`Robot101: separate battery.`
`20:35.50`	`Robot101`	`well, you can probably rig that more easily than your plan... :)`
`20:35.51`	`GNUton`	`jott: it's really cheaper! :P`
`20:36.10`	`Robot101`	`and thinking of that, probably wire it in to be a modem over USB anyway`
`20:36.11`	`wasabi`	`http://www.sierrawireless.com/product/mc8785v.aspx`
`20:36.44`	`Robot101`	`maybe you could just dismantle a simple phone that can charge and be a modem over USB?`
`20:37.06`	`wasabi`	`pci express mini card seems the right size.`
`20:37.36`	`wasabi`	`hahah check this out`
`20:37.37`	`wasabi`	`http://cgi.ebay.com/Sierra-Wireless-USB-PCI-Express-Mini-Card-Board_W0QQitemZ130202837275QQcmdZViewItem`
`20:37.41`	`a-l-e`	`how do i reload the definition from the rx-44 file?`
`20:39.11`	`wasabi`	`Robot101: A solution like that looks creative. Maybe doable.`
`20:39.22`	`*** join/#maemo ajturner (n=ajturner@c-24-5-43-12.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`20:40.35`	`Robot101`	`that pretty much is a phone, it has a separate battery and everything :P`
`20:40.38`	`wasabi`	`Yeah.`
`20:40.53`	`wasabi`	`But he's wired it all up himself. Wonder if I can get him to make a similar board for me for the HSUPA stuff.`
`20:40.57`	`jott`	`a-l-e: setxkbmap -symbols nokia_vndr/rx-44`
`20:41.10`	`wasabi`	`The idea is it's FLAT.`
`20:41.15`	`wasabi`	`It will be grafted to the back of the n810`
`20:42.35`	`lcuk`	`hmmm`
`20:42.39`	`jott`	`a-l-e: may add ...rx-44(de) or your particular layout`
`20:42.49`	`lcuk`	`unaligned memory access doesnt cause as much of a penalty as i thought it would`
`20:42.58`	`a-l-e`	`jott: ok! thanks i'll try it!`
`20:43.43`	`jott`	`(remember to escape it when using brackets :)`
`20:45.10`	`Stskeeps`	`jott: neat`
`20:45.19`	`Stskeeps`	`(minisd thing :P)`
`20:46.48`	`jott`	`yeah seems to be available for <100$ (SDV-841)`
`20:50.10`	`a-l-e`	`jott: it worked: thanks!`
`20:50.26`	`a-l-e`	`no i have to figure out why i get a È instaed of a è...`
`20:51.00`	`*** join/#maemo VimSi (n=vims@dslb-084-061-058-135.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`20:51.24`	`*** join/#maemo christefano (n=christef@pool-68-239-44-155.bos.east.verizon.net)`
`20:52.39`	`pupnik`	`me too`
`20:53.04`	`KotCzarny`	`grunt?`
`20:53.12`	`pupnik`	`power i guess`
`20:53.25`	`lcuk`	`i had to repeat my inner loop 18 times so i could reduce the frame rate down from 27 to 15!`
`20:53.44`	`lcuk`	`(thats when i started testing the unaligned writes)`
`20:54.01`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`20:54.13`	`morbec`	`it's seems the PyMaemo was installed !`
`20:54.25`	`pupnik`	`there are also some asm optimized memcpy floating around`
`20:54.25`	`lmoura`	`morbec, fine :)`
`20:54.31`	`lcuk`	`writing 32bits on a 32bit boundary gets 17fps. being off by 1 byte is 15fps, off by 2 is 15fps, off by 3 is 14fps!`
`20:54.35`	`KotCzarny`	`morbec: so it was reinstallation issue?`
`20:54.53`	`KotCzarny`	`lcuk: how about 16bit boundary?`
`20:54.59`	`KotCzarny`	`erm`
`20:55.01`	`KotCzarny`	`scratch that`
`20:55.02`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`20:55.03`	`lcuk`	`this is just a tight 32bit blit loop with gcc opts on`
`20:55.55`	`morbec`	`KotCzarny, I ran sb-reinstall, after I dist-upgraded, then I installed python2.5-runtime`
`20:56.12`	`KotCzarny`	`morbec: so i was right then :)`
`20:56.13`	`lcuk`	`it means i can write glyphs at any pixel - before i hard coded myself to a 4 pixel horizontal`
`20:57.17`	`morbec`	`:)`
`20:57.27`	`jott`	`lcuk: use something like .. char __attribute__ ((aligned(32)))`
`20:57.39`	`lcuk`	`KotCzarny, you are right quite a lot of the time - i am most impressed by your knowledge`
`20:57.44`	`KotCzarny`	`:>`
`20:57.56`	`KotCzarny`	`it's not knowledge, it's magic`
`20:58.06`	`lcuk`	`and the fact you are a cyborg`
`20:58.14`	`KotCzarny`	`bot, to be exact`
`20:58.19`	`pupnik`	`lcuk i do not understand why your blits are slower than standard sdl`
`20:58.36`	`lcuk`	`R. KotCzarny Olivaw :)`
`20:58.41`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`20:58.51`	`KotCzarny`	`ok, bbl folks`
`20:58.55`	`KotCzarny`	`have a nice hacking`
`20:58.59`	`pupnik`	`cheers`
`20:59.02`	`lcuk`	`800*480 YUV framerate is limited to 27fps tearfree`
`20:59.16`	`pupnik`	`ah`
`20:59.19`	`lcuk`	`no matter how much work i do in the middle`
`20:59.28`	`pupnik`	`you have code that uses tearsync?`
`20:59.42`	`lcuk`	`i render whole page of glyphs 9 times and its still 27 fps`
`20:59.49`	`pupnik`	`ah`
`20:59.52`	`lcuk`	`xv handles it`
`21:00.30`	`lcuk`	`handles scaling as well - so anything from a 200*120 screen upto fullsize fills the area`
`21:00.34`	`lcuk`	`whether that is fullscreen or not`
`21:00.44`	`*** join/#maemo denny (i=denny@freenode/staff/denny)`
`21:00.57`	`lcuk`	`not fullscreen 800*480 looks strange through because its squashed to fit in the client area`
`21:01.09`	`pupnik`	`my emus would run better if they could wait() for a vsync and then pageflip`
`21:01.25`	`lcuk`	`so i use APPVIEW_WIDTH and HEIGHT from somewhere`
`21:01.32`	`pupnik`	`hmm`
`21:02.00`	`pupnik`	`so how is it possible to have no tearing without double buffering?`
`21:02.27`	`*** join/#maemo dholbert (n=dholbert@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com)`
`21:02.28`	`pupnik`	`you have to copy the data sometime... to the active screen`
`21:02.39`	`lcuk`	`it is double buffered though (as far as i can tell) the lcd has enough memory to handle 2x fullscreen YUV displays (wh+(wh/2)+w*h/2)`
`21:02.41`	`pupnik`	`sorry for my ignorance`
`21:02.47`	`pupnik`	`ohh`
`21:03.04`	`lcuk`	`but it hasnt got enough memory for 2x fullscreen rgb (wh2)`
`21:03.43`	`pupnik`	`so using vx tearsync, xomap handles the double-buffering / pageflipping automagically?`
`21:03.51`	`pupnik`	`s/vx/xv/`
`21:04.00`	`pupnik`	`with yuv mode?`
`21:04.22`	`lcuk`	`as far as i can tell yes. ill let you browse the code if ya want`
`21:04.32`	`lcuk`	`its messy but shaped enough to understand i think`
`21:04.39`	`pupnik`	`yes i need to investigate this stuff very soon`
`21:05.07`	`morbec`	`lmoura, KotCzarny and jott: thanks for help!`
`21:05.17`	`lmoura`	`np`
`21:05.34`	`jott`	`lcuk: i would be interested too in your code so far`
`21:06.01`	`lcuk`	`oooh if its gonna have a grand viewing ill have to tidy it up :P`
`21:06.20`	`pupnik`	`is lcd controller 60hz? i hear conflicting numbers`
`21:06.28`	`KotCzarny`	`51hz`
`21:06.36`	`pupnik`	`sure?`
`21:06.39`	`KotCzarny`	`nope`
`21:06.45`	`KotCzarny`	`but that's what i remember`
`21:06.49`	`KotCzarny`	`from googling`
`21:06.52`	`lcuk`	`does it have a proper refresh rate?`
`21:06.53`	`pupnik`	`k`
`21:06.56`	`KotCzarny`	`run xvidtune ?`
`21:07.26`	`lcuk`	`lololol`
`21:08.18`	`lcuk`	`OUCH!`
`21:08.38`	`lcuk`	`ifucking zippo! the flintlock just ate me`
`21:08.47`	`KotCzarny`	`don't smoke`
`21:08.53`	`KotCzarny`	`it's awfull habit`
`21:09.13`	`KotCzarny`	`and kind of slavery you subdue to`
`21:09.14`	`lcuk`	`i agree`
`21:09.22`	`KotCzarny`	`erm`
`21:09.24`	`KotCzarny`	`wrong word`
`21:09.38`	`Tama^2`	`o,o`
`21:09.38`	`KotCzarny`	`surrender`
`21:10.03`	`KotCzarny`	`or 'subdue yourself to'`
`21:10.03`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`21:10.06`	`pupnik`	`jott, which libstdc++ works with gcc4.2?`
`21:10.07`	`KotCzarny`	`ok. bbl`
`21:10.47`	`pupnik`	./dosbox: /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6: version `GLIBCXX_3.4.9'
`21:11.11`	`jott`	`pupnik: yeah well the one for gcc4.2 .)`
`21:11.34`	`pupnik`	`well i set up a target with that toolchain`
`21:12.12`	`jott`	`that's the point where things tend to break when switching to a different compiler major version :/`
`21:13.09`	`*** join/#maemo cmarcelo (n=cmarcelo@200.184.118.132)`
`21:13.31`	`pupnik`	`i should be able to LD_PRELOAD if I find the right version`
`21:14.13`	`jott`	`yeah`
`21:14.25`	`pupnik`	`but the /usr/lib/libstdc++ in target armel42 is linked to the /usr/lib/ in the gcc 3.4 target`
`21:14.29`	`pupnik`	`so that might be "bad"`
`21:14.46`	`jott`	`the debian armel thing should work i suppose`
`21:18.22`	`*** join/#maemo BTobotras (n=boris@ppp91-76-136-25.pppoe.mtu-net.ru)`
`21:18.49`	`pupnik`	`<PROTECTED>`
`21:20.15`	`pupnik`	`oh wait, maybe i want armv4t`
`21:21.03`	`*** part/#maemo qwerty12 (n=user@84.9.55.34)`
`21:22.26`	`*** join/#maemo gopi (n=gopi@63.83.135.35)`
`21:28.22`	`christefano`	`has anyone seen their Airport Extremes die on a regular basis when an N8x0 starts using the network?`
`21:28.55`	`\|\|cw`	`hm, n810 official price drop...`
`21:29.07`	`pupnik`	`wooo it works!`
`21:29.23`	`christefano`	`l\|\|cw: what price drop?`
`21:29.48`	`\|\|cw`	`http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/nokias-n810-internet-tablet-gets-a-90-price-cut/`
`21:30.21`	`christefano`	`interesting. it's good I got mine on eBay :)`
`21:30.58`	`\|\|cw`	`how do you like hte kb on the 810?`
`21:31.49`	`christefano`	`it's not as nice as I'd hoped. it's been less then a week but so far I haven't really adjusted to the keys yet`
`21:32.10`	`pupnik`	`don't forget the height limitations`
`21:32.29`	`christefano`	`what limitations?`
`21:32.35`	`jott`	`yeah you have to adjust it to really use it in shell etc.. but when you get used to it, you can type pretty fast`
`21:32.36`	`*** join/#maemo jegp (n=jegp@200.26.176.183)`
`21:32.42`	`christefano`	`I haven't seen an N800, so please forgive my ignorance`
`21:32.42`	`pupnik`	`there's no vertical space for big knobby keys like some requested`
`21:32.55`	`christefano`	`ah, true`
`21:33.21`	`Robot101`	`are there any S40 HSDPA phones?`
`21:34.01`	`\|\|cw`	`if the top row bing close to the case hard to get used to?`
`21:34.39`	`*** join/#maemo GnutoN810 (n=Gnutonio@host13-173-dynamic.60-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)`
`21:34.47`	`pupnik`	`for me it's only an issue with the d-pad, which should have been lowered 2 mm`
`21:34.55`	`GnutoN810`	`hi`
`21:35.07`	`jott`	`yeah the dpad really sucks`
`21:35.08`	`christefano`	`no, not for me. I'd say I have slightly larger fingers than average for my age/sex`
`21:35.21`	`christefano`	`the d-pad really does suck`
`21:35.21`	`jott`	`atleast for everything but scrolling up and down`
`21:36.13`	`*** join/#maemo mk8 (n=GLaforge@151.16.203.89)`
`21:36.16`	`jott`	`i wonder who came up with the physical design for it :/`
`21:37.34`	`christefano`	`is LAMP running on OS 2008?`
`21:37.40`	`\|\|cw`	`same on the 770, have to take the cover off the back to really use it`
`21:38.36`	`jott`	`i wish someone made some kind of stick that could be attached to it`
`21:41.09`	`pupnik`	`boo.. i get no .gcda files`
`21:42.28`	`GnutoN810`	`why i'm unable to see my deb package in the maemo installer?`
`21:42.56`	`pupnik`	`which deb package, located where?`
`21:43.24`	`GnutoN810`	`it's in my repository.`
`21:43.55`	`jott`	`is it in a user/* section?`
`21:43.58`	`GnutoN810`	`section: utils`
`21:44.04`	`pupnik`	`can you see it with apt-cache search $package ?`
`21:44.12`	`pupnik`	`maybe you forgot to update?`
`21:44.38`	`jott`	`it has to be in user/* to be visible by the crap gui installer thingie..`
`21:44.53`	`GnutoN810`	`pupnik, yeah i can see my package with apt-cache`
`21:44.54`	`pupnik`	`jott wins`
`21:45.20`	`GnutoN810`	`jott, ok so i'll use section user/utils`
`21:45.36`	`GnutoN810`	`isn't right?`
`21:46.12`	`pupnik`	`http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/3-x/howto_making_an_application_package_bora.html here is a list of standard sections GnutoN810 (still applies to 4.0 afaik)`
`21:46.38`	`*** join/#maemo captainigloo_ (n=silent@gar31-4-82-240-198-102.fbx.proxad.net)`
`21:47.19`	`GnutoN810`	`pupnik, thank you :)`
`21:47.50`	`*** join/#maemo cyberholic (n=Miranda@c170247.adsl.hansenet.de)`
`21:48.02`	`cyberholic`	`GOOOD Evening Everyone! :)`
`21:48.08`	`*** join/#maemo lopz (n=gentoo-d@unaffiliated/lopz)`
`21:48.21`	`KotCzarny`	`yawn`
`21:48.30`	`cyberholic`	`I need some Beta-Testers for my n800xn810 website service, who would like to???`
`21:48.55`	`MoRpHeUz`	`anybody ever had problems with CTRL key being sent without modifier bit turned on ?`
`21:49.16`	`*** join/#maemo christefano (n=christef@pool-68-239-44-155.bos.east.verizon.net)`
`21:49.28`	`lopz`	`hi`
`21:52.49`	`cyberholic`	`hey, no one wants to test out my new n800 service???? Come on guys.... i invented something to spice up your Device!!!!`
`21:52.56`	`cyberholic`	`at least i hope`
`21:52.59`	`*** join/#maemo roue (n=roue@afterthought.ACS.Carleton.edu)`
`21:53.07`	`cyberholic`	`at least it spiced up mine :)`
`21:53.14`	`shackan`	`what?`
`21:53.25`	`pupnik`	`what website service cyberholic ?`
`21:53.36`	`cyberholic`	`shackan: you have a n800 or n810 ?`
`21:53.44`	`shackan`	`yes`
`21:54.01`	`shackan`	`but it's turned off`
`21:54.05`	`cyberholic`	`shackan: would be great if you could test this out and tell me about bugs....`
`21:54.09`	`cyberholic`	`www.mojocafe.de`
`21:54.28`	`shackan`	`AAAAAAAAAARGH`
`21:54.34`	`shackan`	`fullscreen flash`
`21:54.37`	`cyberholic`	`:)`
`21:54.38`	`shackan`	`my eye!`
`21:54.41`	`cyberholic`	`;)`
`21:54.47`	`cyberholic`	`only one?`
`21:54.51`	`cyberholic`	`what about your other eye?`
`21:55.10`	`GnutoN810`	`ho can encode an image to base64?`
`21:55.52`	`GnutoN810`	`i want to set an icon to my deb package.`
`21:55.54`	`shackan`	`GnutoN810: that's a WHO ?`
`21:56.06`	`Tama^2`	`an 'how' I think`
`21:56.12`	`cyberholic`	`shackan, would be great if you could tell me if you understood what mojocafe.de is about....`
`21:56.26`	`shackan`	`cyberholic: I have no idea`
`21:56.26`	`GnutoN810`	`how`
`21:56.52`	`shackan`	`cyberholic: looks like.. I don't know, there's a list of applets`
`21:57.03`	`shackan`	`but they're called with another name to sound cool`
`21:57.09`	`cyberholic`	`it is quite easy: while you have your device on your desktop, instead of showing the today screen, you could have a nice clock, the weather info or calender and much more widgets to come....`
`21:57.50`	`shackan`	`oh that's sooo cool`
`21:57.54`	`shackan`	`[sic]`
`21:58.01`	`solmumaha`	`anyone familiar with hal?`
`21:58.31`	`cyberholic`	`shackan: at least a nice reason to keep my device on while on the desktop ;)`
`21:58.51`	`shackan`	`cyberholic: I turn it off`
`21:59.00`	`*** join/#maemo playya (n=playya@pD9E0A873.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`21:59.08`	`shackan`	`I have, you know, a real clock, an a real calendar`
`21:59.14`	`cyberholic`	`ok, then i will need some other Beta-Testers.... who would like to???`
`22:01.13`	`cyberholic`	`shackan: what is a real calendar? ...... ;)`
`22:01.56`	`jott`	`cyberholic: when i "browse mojos" only half of the big preview on the right is visible`
`22:01.57`	`shackan`	`looks like someone has been staring at screens for too long`
`22:02.20`	`cyberholic`	`jott: what screen resolution do you have?`
`22:02.36`	`jott`	`a real calender is something anachronistic from the last millenium :)`
`22:02.47`	`cyberholic`	`jott: smiiiiiiiiiiiiiiile .`
`22:03.11`	`jott`	`cyberholic: 800x480 (fullscreen microb without urlbar etc on n810)`
`22:03.55`	`cyberholic`	`jott: are you surfing the site with your device? In fact you visit www.mojocafe.de with an usual pc. There you set up the 4 widgets aka Mojos you would like to have and then you surf to my.mojocafe.de with your Device and start the software.`
`22:04.04`	`jott`	`oh..`
`22:04.06`	`jott`	`ok`
`22:04.08`	`cLin`	`i wish the escape button doubled as a reload button in microb`
`22:04.19`	`shackan`	`cyberholic: what software?`
`22:04.22`	`jott`	`i have disabled flash on all my desktop browsers :)`
`22:04.31`	`shackan`	`jott++`
`22:04.49`	`cyberholic`	`shackan: sorry... no software, the website.... my fault. you do not need to install anything. jott: oh.. ok :)`
`22:05.10`	`jott`	`i guess the selection site could also be used on the device itself`
`22:05.16`	`jott`	`no need to use a desktop`
`22:05.49`	`cyberholic`	`jott: i tried that before, but my fat fingers where too fat for the amount of tiny buttons :)`
`22:06.14`	`jott`	`increase the size of the checkboxes etc ;)`
`22:06.15`	`shackan`	`no need to use a site at all, the worldclock is nice and works without a connection :D`
`22:06.34`	`jott`	`shackan: well it's nice to have a choice .. :)`
`22:06.45`	`cyberholic`	`shackan: what do you mean?`
`22:07.03`	`cyberholic`	`shackan: oh, you mean the clock that comes with the OS?`
`22:07.13`	`pupnik`	`jott: i can't get dosbox to create .gcda files on device. if you're ever interested in trying it, let me know`
`22:07.34`	`shackan`	`cyberholic: no, I mean the full screen clock+calendar overlaid with the worldmap which I installed last week`
`22:08.00`	`cyberholic`	`any screenshot?`
`22:08.03`	`shackan`	`cyberholic: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2007/mclock/`
`22:08.16`	`jott`	`pupnik: do other apps (simple test cases) generate the data?`
`22:08.17`	`shackan`	`I'd say it looks nice`
`22:08.27`	`pupnik`	`yes uae4all did it fine`
`22:08.28`	`shackan`	`and dosn't need a connection :D`
`22:08.49`	`pupnik`	`but i am not getting a .gcno for dosbox.o on generate state`
`22:08.57`	`pupnik`	`stage... so perhaps that's the problem`
`22:09.07`	`pupnik`	`i'll keep trying stuff`
`22:09.18`	`cyberholic`	`ah, what i said... :)`
`22:09.30`	`shackan`	`what did you say?`
`22:09.41`	`ynezz`	`cyberholic: strip poker would be more popular :)`
`22:09.46`	`cyberholic`	`shackan: does it show the actual weather condition? does it have a connection to your flickr account? Does it show you your gmail or yahoo mail account?`
`22:10.04`	`shackan`	`cyberholic: do I need it?`
`22:10.07`	`shackan`	`no :)`
`22:10.20`	`cyberholic`	`ynezz: thanks for the tipp, will think about such a widget ;)`
`22:10.38`	`jott`	`weather is important.. you do not have to look out of the window to see if it rains g`
`22:10.51`	`shackan`	`jott: EXACTLY :D`
`22:11.04`	`cLin`	`is there anyway to use the shortcut keys in gmail on the microb browsers? seems like the only time i can bring up the keyboard is for inputting something`
`22:11.51`	`*** join/#maemo fsmw (n=Fernando@200.113.154.144)`
`22:12.02`	`cyberholic`	`jott: thanks :)`
`22:12.03`	`jott`	`thats what vintage devices are for :P`
`22:13.01`	`*** join/#maemo l7_ (n=l7@evil-wire.org)`
`22:13.11`	`jott`	`oh it also shows how long its to next sunrise/sunset so you can prepare your sunglasses when your coding session went too long :)`
`22:14.15`	`cyberholic`	`looool`
`22:15.24`	`lcuk`	`i dont code too long - the sun is just ahead of schedule`
`22:15.56`	`jott`	`lcuk: either way.. it's good to have an up-to-date schedule :)`
`22:16.26`	`lcuk`	`deadlines scare me`
`22:16.43`	`lcuk`	`i do less knowing that i am running out of time`
`22:16.44`	`jott`	`hehe deadline increase productivity :)`
`22:17.33`	`lcuk`	`i am actually quite efficient tho - when scheduling for things i can generally hit the nail on the head`
`22:17.34`	`KotCzarny`	`true`
`22:17.50`	`KotCzarny`	`without deadlines projects tend to take forever`
`22:17.52`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
`22:18.02`	`KotCzarny`	`also priorities are usefull ;)`
`22:18.35`	`lcuk`	`my todo/scheduling is a piece of paper with stars and numbers and ticks`
`22:18.50`	`KotCzarny`	`paper?`
`22:18.52`	`KotCzarny`	`o.O`
`22:18.55`	`KotCzarny`	`what's that`
`22:18.57`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`22:18.57`	`lcuk`	`yes`
`22:19.15`	`lcuk`	`i havent found a piece of software yet which wastes less of my time and gives me the right amount of information`
`22:19.42`	`lcuk`	`i keep electronic logs of past work, but on a day to week basis i have a sheet which i get through`
`22:20.36`	`lcuk`	`and this is from the guy that has written multiple schedulers and timesheet and task apps ;)`
`22:21.23`	`jott`	`hehe so none of the apps you wrote was really good?! :p`
`22:21.34`	`lcuk`	`they werent written for me :)`
`22:21.45`	`jott`	`:)`
`22:21.58`	`lcuk`	`my tasks app is used daily by all in the offices and currently contains around 200k tasks`
`22:22.22`	`lcuk`	`i was shocked actually because i was asked to make a change and realised i started working on it 7 years ago`
`22:22.51`	`lcuk`	`and yes, if i had a schedule it would have been finished in 3 months ;)`
`22:22.52`	`jott`	`eheh yeah just rewrite it :)`
`22:22.55`	`*** join/#maemo buddylee (n=ryanc@cpe-024-162-254-083.nc.res.rr.com)`
`22:23.08`	`*** join/#maemo guardian (n=guardian@ANantes-252-1-71-102.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`22:23.12`	`lcuk`	`no need - it suits its purpose amazingly well and has scaled as required`
`22:23.27`	`lcuk`	`and the bosses can get the information they require out of it`
`22:25.27`	`lcuk`	`bathtime`
`22:25.29`	`lcuk`	`back later`
`22:25.42`	`*** join/#maemo fsmw_ (n=Fernando@200.54.152.205)`
`22:28.25`	`*** join/#maemo herzi (n=herzi@p54BEB0B7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`22:42.48`	`*** part/#maemo jegp (n=jegp@200.26.176.183)`
`22:45.56`	`*** join/#maemo seraph1 (n=ecrespo@200.47.151.107)`
`22:47.20`	`*** join/#maemo cyndis__ (n=cyndis@82-128-201-29-Korvensuora-TR1.suomi.net)`
`22:51.04`	`*** join/#maemo behdad (n=behdad@p54BEB0B7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`22:51.59`	`*** join/#maemo pigeon (n=pigeon@218-214-60-232.people.net.au)`
`22:52.36`	`*** join/#maemo tjafk2 (i=timj@e176198088.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`22:54.08`	`*** join/#maemo Vytas (n=vytas@c-d24071d5.163-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)`
`22:55.42`	`*** join/#maemo behdad (n=behdad@p54BEB0B7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`22:56.35`	`cyberholic`	`ok... back again... just in case someone is still interested about seeing it in action, visit www.mojocafe.de with your device (!)`
`22:57.55`	`pupnik`	`flash based?`
`22:58.36`	`pupnik`	`url not found cyberholic`
`22:58.44`	`pupnik`	`redirects to mymojo.html`
`22:59.36`	`*** join/#maemo spirytusick (n=spiryt@82-43-35-225.cable.ubr01.croy.blueyonder.co.uk)`
`22:59.44`	`cyberholic`	`pupnik: sorry.... it should work now.`
`23:01.40`	`spirytusick`	`elou :)`
`23:02.12`	`jott`	`cyberholic: redirects here too and wants a nlogin :/`
`23:02.24`	`jott`	`spirytusick: hello :)`
`23:04.01`	`cyberholic`	`jott: yeah, because you must register first at the "big site" with your pc :)`
`23:04.02`	`spirytusick`	`jott: :) hey :)`
`23:04.04`	`spirytusick`	`hey pupnik:)`
`23:04.11`	`pupnik`	`hi`
`23:04.12`	`spirytusick`	`KotCzarny: lo krajanie :)`
`23:04.40`	`KotCzarny`	`spirytusik: ja spie`
`23:04.42`	`KotCzarny`	`;)`
`23:04.51`	`KotCzarny`	`http://www.techamok.com/?pid=4217`
`23:04.54`	`KotCzarny`	`Ed.note: I can confirm Firefox 3 beta 4 is much faster than IE7. FINALLY!`
`23:04.54`	`KotCzarny`	`lol`
`23:04.55`	`spirytusick`	`KotCzarny: not bad for a sleepwalker :)`
`23:05.24`	`spirytusick`	`KotCzarny: they will fix it to be as slow as usual in the final release :)`
`23:05.26`	`jott`	`cyberholic: i dont want to register :/... you should make a guest account`
`23:06.18`	`*** join/#maemo smackpotato (n=user@69.158.250.136)`
`23:06.18`	`cyberholic`	`jott: ok.... just a second.`
`23:06.23`	`spirytusick`	`KotCzarny: seriously, I cant wait as firefox under linux is very slow (compared to win ver anyway)`
`23:06.46`	`KotCzarny`	`jott: who was the guy that told me to register on bugs.meamo.org?`
`23:06.47`	`KotCzarny`	`:>`
`23:06.51`	`spirytusick`	`KotCzarny: I can make a cup of coffe during startup, and drink it before the window opens up in full :)`
`23:06.56`	`cyberholic`	`kot: loooool`
`23:07.11`	`smackpotato`	`why dont i have gdkwindows.h`
`23:07.36`	`KotCzarny`	`spirytusick: mine firefox works fine :)`
`23:07.59`	`cyberholic`	`jott: tell me a password as private mssge plllliiise and i add you manualy to the DB.`
`23:08.04`	`jott`	`KotCzarny: you can browse bugs.m.o without registration ;)`
`23:08.12`	`spirytusick`	`KotCzarny: Mine works fine, but slow :)`
`23:08.15`	`KotCzarny`	`jott: but not post ;)`
`23:08.30`	`cyberholic`	`Kot: you wanna try out my new site?`
`23:08.35`	`KotCzarny`	`cyberholic: noe`
`23:08.37`	`KotCzarny`	`no`
`23:08.38`	`KotCzarny`	`:)`
`23:08.50`	`KotCzarny`	`i think i'll go to bed`
`23:08.55`	`cyberholic`	`:( ... okay`
`23:09.05`	`cyberholic`	`you could have one of the nice clocks right next to your bed ;)`
`23:09.31`	`spirytusick`	`KotCzarny: good night Kot. C U 2morrow`
`23:09.44`	`KotCzarny`	`night night`
`23:09.48`	`KotCzarny`	`[d]`
`23:13.56`	`*** join/#maemo christefano (n=christef@pool-68-239-44-155.bos.east.verizon.net)`
`23:14.10`	`*** join/#maemo turbo (n=brian@c-68-35-254-149.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)`
`23:21.20`	`cyberholic`	`jott: still there?`
`23:22.28`	`*** join/#maemo Raistl\|n (n=TheCrow@c-76-25-173-241.hsd1.co.comcast.net)`
`23:22.34`	`*** join/#maemo SDuensin (n=Scott@12-226-44-250.client.mchsi.com)`
`23:23.38`	`cyberholic`	`Ok, due to the good idea of Jott, i have added a "Demo" Mode of my new n800 "service". You can visit http://www.mojocafe.de with your device and at the bottom left there is a DEMO Mode button.`
`23:25.13`	`pupnik`	`will do :)`
`23:25.56`	`cyberholic`	pupnik: what do you mean? sorry ma english ain`t the best :(
`23:26.06`	`pupnik`	`werde es probieren`
`23:26.28`	`cyberholic`	`:) ... habe verstanden`
`23:26.32`	`cyberholic`	`thanks a lot :)`
`23:27.00`	`pupnik`	`nice design cyberholic`
`23:27.10`	`Cptnodegard`	`god i hate flash`
`23:27.13`	`cyberholic`	`Does anyone know how i can tell the mbrowser to go Fullscreen by html?`
`23:27.19`	`cyberholic`	`pupnik: thanks a lot`
`23:27.43`	`Cptnodegard`	`somewhere along the way people tripped, lost html and decided to crap all over common sense. they named the projevt flash`
`23:27.51`	`cyberholic`	cptnodegard: i had to realize that a lot of people do but unfortunately it`s an easy and nice way to make some beauty interactivity.
`23:28.20`	`Cptnodegard`	`flashblock ftw :d`
`23:29.44`	`cyberholic`	`well, not if you want to be entertained, i think :)`
`23:30.17`	`cyberholic`	`Who wants me to make a Flash Clock for him? Pupnik: you want your own Flash Clock? I can add it to the MOJO archive`
`23:30.55`	`pupnik`	`hehe @ tissot urh`
`23:30.57`	`pupnik`	`uhr`
`23:31.22`	`cyberholic`	`pupnik: what is tissot?`
`23:31.50`	`pupnik`	`famous old scheizer uhr`
`23:32.13`	`cyberholic`	`oh, well... i think i better dont do that or their lawyers will get in contact with me :)`
`23:33.23`	`pupnik`	`i don't think they can trademark a swiss flag icon, can they?`
`23:33.29`	`pupnik`	`http://simplyswiss.typepad.com/simplyswiss/images/tissot_logo_and_product.jpg`
`23:33.40`	`*** join/#maemo celesteh (n=celesteh@82-46-164-29.cable.ubr01.harb.blueyonder.co.uk)`
`23:33.50`	`*** part/#maemo celesteh (n=celesteh@82-46-164-29.cable.ubr01.harb.blueyonder.co.uk)`
`23:35.15`	`pupnik`	`btw jott - speed not noticeably improved for dosbox from gcc 3.4 to 4.2 (no profile-generate data used). too many errors in 4.2 to run benchmarks`
`23:35.43`	`f_mohr`	`watch reminds me .. is there a way to change the clock display to 24hrs instead of am/pm?`
`23:35.50`	`cyberholic`	`no, but their name :) i just finished the clock and will put it online now.... gimme a second`
`23:37.04`	`cyberholic`	`f_mohr: are you talking about one of the Mojocafe clocks?`
`23:37.27`	`*** join/#maemo ajturner (n=ajturner@c-24-5-43-12.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`23:38.14`	`f_mohr`	`clock applet and the world clock that come with the device`
`23:38.41`	`*** join/#maemo jegp (n=jegp@prometeo.idea.com.py)`
`23:38.51`	`cyberholic`	`f_mohr: oh... you should ask Kot about that, he is more into that tool instead of the Mojocafe.de ones.`
`23:39.15`	`cyberholic`	`pupnik: check the mojocafe site with your desktop pc... your clock is online ;)`
`23:39.27`	`cyberholic`	`Hope you like it ;)`
`23:39.46`	`pupnik`	`do you do professional flash work cyberholic ?`
`23:39.52`	`cyberholic`	`yep`
`23:40.16`	`pupnik`	`did you work for INM frankfurt?`
`23:40.24`	`cyberholic`	`nope :)`
`23:40.31`	`pupnik`	`ok, just a guess`
`23:40.58`	`cyberholic`	`Since i typed the word PRINT for the first time on my Commodore 116, i never had a fulltime job for anyone :)`
`23:41.08`	`cyberholic`	`i am a freelancer`
`23:41.42`	`pupnik`	`hehe @ pupnik mojo`
`23:42.16`	`pupnik`	`do you have a network of clients or get most work from online jobboerse?`
`23:42.31`	`*** join/#maemo herzi (n=herzi@p54BEB0B7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`23:44.06`	`cyberholic`	`network of clients. 2006 i did the sensationwhite.de website by myself and this year there is another big event that i was asked to develop the onlinesite for. I do these kind of thinks (like endorphinum.de and now mojocafe.de) just within my sparetime....`
`23:46.10`	`pupnik`	`cyberholic - in confirmation email, s/weren't/was not/`
`23:47.17`	`cyberholic`	`pupnik: what do you mean? sorry for my bad english.`
`23:47.51`	`*** join/#maemo MagicFab_ (n=magicfab@modemcable178.77-70-69.static.videotron.ca)`
`23:48.41`	`pupnik`	`pm`
`23:51.55`	`pupnik`	`123`
`23:52.24`	`*** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com)`
`23:58.55`	`pupnik`	`now i can brag to my friends that i have a 450 euro watch :)`
`23:59.14`	`pupnik`	`thanks cyberholic`
`23:59.54`	`cyberholic`	`:)`

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