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| 00:14.50 | Navi | Gah |
| 00:14.59 | Navi | the N800 doesn't detect my finger most of the time |
| 00:15.11 | Navi | so I get the stupid stylus board |
| 00:15.56 | Navi | Also, after reflashing and restoring a backup without apps, I can't open the applet panel |
| 00:16.00 | Navi | for choosing applets |
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| 00:34.25 | b0unc3 | any hints on how to make a trasparent home plugin on OS2008? |
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| 01:05.06 | Navi | the N800 doesn't detect my finger most of the time, anyone know how to get it to detect my finger? |
| 01:05.13 | Navi | for the finger board |
| 01:06.10 | unixSnob | do you use your nail at all? that works for me (even w/ my nails clipped) |
| 01:06.24 | Navi | No, not at all |
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| 01:07.02 | unixSnob | Any kernel experts here? |
| 01:07.48 | Navi | Also, I can't open the dialog to enable/disable applets |
| 01:08.12 | unixSnob | Suppose a rogue driver tries to access a restricted part of memory. Is Maemo good enough to deny access, and continue running, or does it kernel panic? |
| 01:09.33 | unixSnob | my finger works on the n800 even if I don't use my nail |
| 01:10.07 | unixSnob | but try flipping your hand palm facing up, and tap w/ your nails.. it'll probably work better for you navi |
| 01:10.51 | nomis | unixSnob: drivers running in the kernel may access all kinds of restricted parts. Unless you have a memory protection unit or something similiar the rogue driver won't be stopped. |
| 01:11.30 | unixSnob | What do you mean a "memory protection unit"? |
| 01:11.41 | unixSnob | is that something that can be added to the kernel? |
| 01:12.25 | nomis | unixSnob: that is a hardware part in some CPUs. |
| 01:12.59 | unixSnob | interesting.. I'd like to know more about that |
| 01:13.03 | nomis | (I actually don't know what facilities the ARM based CPUs in the nokia tablets have. |
| 01:13.24 | nomis | it might be part of the MMU. |
| 01:13.29 | unixSnob | Well, in terms of desktop PCs, is that available in some cpus? |
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| 01:14.51 | nomis | unixSnob: I can only tell you that in the blackfin CPU a protection unit is available (and - if enabled - tends to bite you) despite blackfin not having a MMU. |
| 01:14.58 | unixSnob | I always thought linux was more reliable than Windows, because I get BSODs all the time, but almost never get kernel panics.. but folks are telling me it only appears that way because linux drivers are better. |
| 01:16.26 | unixSnob | In fact someone over in #linux said linux would get kernel panics as often as Windows gets BSODs if it ran as many rogue drivers. |
| 01:16.57 | nomis | unixSnob: that is true. It is quite easy to crash/hang the kernel with buggy drivers. |
| 01:17.39 | nomis | unixSnob: the key part is, that nearly all linux drivers are free software and everybody can try to fix them if they behave problematic. |
| 01:18.10 | unixSnob | I'm surprized OSs don't have a protective layer of some kind |
| 01:18.37 | unixSnob | Seems like a kernel could simply deny access to bad requests |
| 01:19.11 | nomis | unixSnob: if some taiwan company produces some random hardware and of course also has to ship a driver for win, they might hack on the driver to get something that works for them. But since they don't open up the source the only party able to fix the drivers are themselves. If they are working on the next product, the motivation to fix an "old" driver is pretty low. |
| 01:19.59 | nomis | unixSnob: if I understood that correctly microkernels might have such an architecture. |
| 01:20.18 | nomis | (Linux is not a microkernel) |
| 01:20.57 | unixSnob | yeah, i've heard that a microkernel can actually be proven to be crash free. |
| 01:21.11 | unixSnob | I suppose it has to be a very small feature poor type of OS |
| 01:21.28 | nomis | unixSnob: that probably is a misconception. |
| 01:21.52 | nomis | unixSnob: at one point there has been a huge (famous) flamewar on that topic between Tanenbaum and Torvalds. |
| 01:22.13 | unixSnob | who's tanenbaum? |
| 01:22.22 | nomis | unixSnob: google for him. |
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| 01:24.19 | unixSnob | Do linux and Windows both make use of the memory protection logic if the hardware offers it? |
| 01:24.52 | unixSnob | ah, minix.. I recall reading about that.. part of where linux came from.. or inspired it |
| 01:25.40 | nomis | unixSnob: I believe that you overestimate the importance of that memory protection logic thingie. |
| 01:25.53 | unixSnob | s/logic/unit/ |
| 01:26.13 | nomis | unixSnob: being able to access protected memory is the whole Point of kernel and/or drivers. |
| 01:26.20 | unixSnob | Well, look at what a bsod/kernel panic does.. kills everything that's running fine. |
| 01:26.45 | unixSnob | If that can be intercepted, and not bring the whole system down, seems like a big plus. |
| 01:27.20 | lcuk | ok, so the video driver b0rks. how do you carry on working? |
| 01:27.33 | lcuk | or the hard disk controller? |
| 01:27.42 | unixSnob | Those are essential. |
| 01:27.45 | nomis | unixSnob: Linux has non-fatal oopses. But if your system for some reason gets into an inconsistent state would you rather ignore that and risk corrupting data? |
| 01:28.17 | unixSnob | However, I currently get a bsod if I simply insert a CD. I don't care if windows disables my CD drive so everything else can continue |
| 01:29.07 | lcuk | thats usually because windows tried to access data off the disk bus and oooh looksie something is corrupt in the ide driver |
| 01:29.11 | unixSnob | I might.. I might like to be offered an option.. red pill or blue pill. |
| 01:29.31 | nomis | unixSnob: BSODs is not something to take lightly. There is nothing that guarantees that this only affects the CD drive. |
| 01:29.55 | unixSnob | Right, but it seems an OS could prevent non-essential rogue processes from crashing a whole system |
| 01:30.07 | lcuk | it could be the northbridge overheating or the memory is bad, the biggest thing i would say there is: check the hardware - i never see bsods or anything - i have stable hardware |
| 01:30.36 | lcuk | the software is doing its best to tell you theres a big problem |
| 01:30.37 | nomis | unixSnob: if you are talking about user space processes then you are right and this already happens. A user space process accessing the wrong memory gets killed with a segfault. |
| 01:31.41 | unixSnob | Yeah, I see that seg fault on things I'm working on (on linux). |
| 01:31.57 | unixSnob | Does windows have the same protection from user space processes? |
| 01:32.06 | nomis | but a CD drive relies on the IDE bus which in turn probably depends on the DMA engines which access the Memory. Which part do you want to disable when it turns out that somewhere in that pipeline something goes very wrong? |
| 01:32.37 | nomis | unixSnob: current Windows'ses yes. If a user space application crashes it usually does not affect the other running processes. |
| 01:32.43 | unixSnob | I would just want it to disable the CDROM driver |
| 01:33.13 | nomis | unixSnob: so if the problem is actually in the IDE driver and it starts randomizing your data on the harddisk, this is fine with you? |
| 01:33.59 | lcuk | unixSnob, go into device manager and disable it then |
| 01:34.36 | unixSnob | I would feel confident that it's the driver at fault, because it happens when a CD is inserted, and never when HDD activity is called for |
| 01:34.53 | Navi | I can't open the applet selector :/ |
| 01:35.00 | unixSnob | lcuk - I'm not given time to do that between inserting the CD, and getting the BSOD |
| 01:35.05 | nomis | unixSnob: but that is your human intuition telling you this. The OS cannot know. |
| 01:36.27 | lcuk | hint: you can disable it right now *before* you put another cd in, or you know, you could use your head and not put cds in. i haven't asked but is it a specific cd you are putting in which makes it crash, or do other cds work? |
| 01:37.15 | lcuk | "Sony rootkit edition" |
| 01:37.22 | unixSnob | It's when I start a NERO burn process, and insert a blank. Brand doesn't matter. |
| 01:37.31 | unixSnob | And it doesn't happen every time, just half the time. |
| 01:37.57 | unixSnob | Also, I've only seen it with NERO I think.. not with the HP provided app. |
| 01:38.18 | unixSnob | But I know it can't be Nero, right, because that's in the user space. |
| 01:38.30 | lcuk | right, so now we are getting somewhere. its not the actual operating system thats doing this, its the interaction between neros funky none standardness and another none standard app and windows's own cd burning thing |
| 01:38.50 | lcuk | nero has some aspi driver scsi cover thing doesnt it |
| 01:38.56 | nomis | oh, and I would suspect that nero installs custom drivers. |
| 01:39.21 | nomis | anyway. /me heads for the bed now. Night all. |
| 01:39.22 | unixSnob | So Nero is operating outside of the user space? |
| 01:39.40 | unixSnob | night |
| 01:39.46 | lcuk | so - the operating system driver works. the oem providers software works. the custom nero tool doesnt. go whine at them not debating operating systems |
| 01:40.28 | nomis | unixSnob: look, at #maemo we are not really experts for windows problems. If it only happens with nero you could just call the nero support. |
| 01:40.41 | unixSnob | What do you whine at them? I don't even care if that problem gets solved, that's not why I brought it up |
| 01:41.28 | unixSnob | nomis, thanks.. you actually seem to know more than the folks in #linux, and I'm almost afraid of what I'll find in #windows |
| 01:42.42 | lcuk | lol |
| 01:42.58 | nomis | unixSnob: going back to the memory protection thing - each driver would have to register where it has to access protected memory. The driver itself is the only one knowing this. The kernel maybe then could prevent them from accessing memory other than their registered memory. |
| 01:43.23 | nomis | unixSnob: however, this does not help if a rogue driver registers the wrong memory addresses and writes nonsense to them. |
| 01:44.11 | unixSnob | damn, so the memory protection unit is nearly worthless |
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| 01:44.16 | nomis | I don't know how microkernels are supposed to work, but they have (I think) a strong layering in their internal infrastructure. That might help there. |
| 01:44.33 | unixSnob | I might explore that |
| 01:45.52 | nomis | but I think microkernels is more about a sane architecture than protecting random memory accesses/corruptions from buggy drivers. The question is: How do you specify what a driver is allowed to and what not? |
| 01:46.16 | nomis | ... and how do you detect a misbehaviour and the responsible party? |
| 01:46.24 | unixSnob | I would expect the driver to /ask/ the OS for an allocation |
| 01:46.25 | lcuk | you make all rouge processes indicate themselves with an evil bit |
| 01:46.39 | lcuk | rogue even, they arent red |
| 01:46.43 | unixSnob | And the OS should decide what block of memory the driver gets |
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| 01:47.17 | lcuk | but what if all that happens and the driver writes bad data to its own memory block corrupting everything? |
| 01:47.42 | unixSnob | And then whenever a driver wants to write, it sends what it wants written to the OS, who does it. |
| 01:47.57 | unixSnob | And if the reference is bad, the OS rejects it |
| 01:47.57 | lcuk | but how does the os know what is right? |
| 01:48.06 | unixSnob | The OS did the allocation |
| 01:48.12 | lcuk | the reference location is correct, im just stuffing the wrong data into it |
| 01:48.26 | lcuk | like image width 0xfffe |
| 01:48.31 | ljp | anyone know if there is a developer reference rootfilesystem for OS2008? |
| 01:48.33 | unixSnob | Right, and that's fine, that's not going to corrupt /other/ processes |
| 01:48.53 | nomis | unixSnob: wait, we're not only talking about the usual RAM memory. |
| 01:48.54 | lcuk | but the device is the hard disk |
| 01:49.03 | unixSnob | If a process wants to trash itself, there's only so much you can do |
| 01:49.15 | unixSnob | Sure, but that's always a risk |
| 01:49.19 | lcuk | so its now writing directly to the hard drive at arbitary sectors |
| 01:49.21 | nomis | unixSnob: there are things like IO-Adresses, Registers etc. pp. which are adressed the same way as the regular memory. Drivers need to access this. |
| 01:49.49 | nomis | unixSnob: *and* which affect the behaviour of the whole CPU. |
| 01:50.29 | unixSnob | Yeah, well, there's a limitation on how much one can protect. |
| 01:50.50 | unixSnob | But it seems in the current state of things, kernels are not protecting half of what they could |
| 01:51.23 | lcuk | so, you just made the system 10 times slower and you arent any better off because when your legitimate nero device driver does the wrong thing on the ide port the next process needing data becomes borken |
| 01:51.30 | unixSnob | I mean, there's no reason to give a video driver access to IDE drivers memory space |
| 01:51.44 | lcuk | they are protected just fine. if software is unstable, uninstall the fucking thing |
| 01:52.26 | nomis | unixSnob: did you ever do driver development? |
| 01:52.33 | unixSnob | no |
| 01:52.48 | unixSnob | but it sounds like a free for all :) |
| 01:53.22 | unixSnob | I could write a webcam driver that dumps all over a USB drivers space, if I wanted, apparently |
| 01:53.29 | nomis | unixSnob: I did, and I think that you're barking up the wrong tree. Most problems have other reasons than memory corruption I think. |
| 01:53.49 | lcuk | ok, microsoft have thought of this, they have a designed for xxx. ONLY use legit software - that means NOT installing anything else |
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| 01:54.16 | lcuk | if the "i cant see a digital signature" warning comes up, heed it and dont install the driver |
| 01:54.30 | unixSnob | Well, my CD driver happens to be Windows certified, in fact, produced by MS. |
| 01:54.35 | nomis | unixSnob: I think it is quite likely that the nero driver fucks up your IDE bus. Memory protection would not help, because the CDROM driver *has* to use the IDE stuff. |
| 01:54.42 | unixSnob | But I guess it's the nero driver that's bad |
| 01:54.49 | lcuk | but not the ones from nero, or the others which are in the cd chain |
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| 01:55.06 | lcuk | have you installed any games? |
| 01:55.15 | nomis | that signature stuff is bogus anyway. |
| 01:55.30 | lcuk | because THEY install drivers through hidden back doors to "validate" your disks authenticity. those cause problems |
| 01:55.40 | nomis | lcuk: well, as far as I understood this discussion we're not really trying to fix the specific problem. |
| 01:55.49 | nomis | thats not the point. |
| 01:55.51 | unixSnob | hm.. dunno if i've installed games since my last reinstall |
| 01:56.16 | lcuk | no, but its making the point about his issue because he keeps bringing it back up re: protecting the system |
| 01:56.17 | unixSnob | Right, i don't care about the problem.. just want to understand BSODs generally |
| 01:56.25 | unixSnob | And why I don't see as many kernel panics |
| 01:56.44 | unixSnob | I always thought the linux kernel was more reliable |
| 01:56.51 | unixSnob | (apparently I was wrong) |
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| 01:57.38 | nomis | unixSnob: It is more reliable. main reason: Windows drivers come from various sources, namely the hardware vendors. Linux drivers usually undergo a strong peer review, because their source is open. |
| 01:57.44 | lcuk | for the nokia, bad software comes around like in windows, but more often than not its repaired quickly. there was a storm in a teacup recently when people installed the rfcomm stack |
| 01:58.36 | lcuk | now aparantly thats all fixed and people can install it without it breaking (unless its regressed) |
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| 01:58.56 | nomis | unixSnob: an observation I made is that as soon as you isntall closed source drivers for linux (e.g. for graphics cards) the system stability tends to get hurt. |
| 01:59.16 | nomis | unixSnob: the obvious downside is, that there are by far less drivers for linux. |
| 01:59.26 | nomis | i.e. you have to pick your hardware more carefully. |
| 01:59.53 | unixSnob | Yeah, I agree closed source isn't /seen/ as much, thus less reliable |
| 02:00.17 | unixSnob | I'm just not sure why that principle doesn't carry into the kernel itself |
| 02:00.25 | nomis | huh? |
| 02:00.33 | unixSnob | Eg. the Windows kernel is as reliable as teh linux kernel |
| 02:00.41 | unixSnob | (drivers aside) |
| 02:01.02 | unixSnob | closed source has fewer eyes on it, so fewer defects are discovered |
| 02:02.09 | lcuk | i would hazard thats not entirely the case all the time. certain projects get the lions share of eyes whilst others trundle along with users and exploits just sitting under then like anything else |
| 02:03.01 | nomis | lcuk: that probably is true. But the drivers that get shipped with the Linux-Kernel usually have had quite a few eyeballs on them. |
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| 02:03.56 | nomis | unixSnob: well, Microsoft has lots of smart people. They have a lot of ressources at hand to get a rock solid kernel. |
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| 02:04.50 | nomis | unixSnob: the problem is, that with every china-webcam you install a driver from some "fire-and-forget" driver development guy. This is what brings down the windows system. |
| 02:04.52 | unixSnob | it's probably better than I give it credit for |
| 02:05.16 | nomis | and a typical windows installation has a *lot* of third party drivers. |
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| 02:05.40 | nomis | "Certified by microsoft" does not mean that microsoft has put a lot of ressources into it to find all the bugs. |
| 02:06.01 | unixSnob | It just amazes me that there's no practical way for the OS to completely do its job, and protect the system from a bad rapid-fire driver |
| 02:06.30 | unixSnob | Cerfied drivers just mean they were tested by MS, AFAIK |
| 02:06.55 | nomis | unixSnob: I tried to explain it above: it is simply a *very* hard problem to tell, which access to some IO-Memory/Registers is legitimate. |
| 02:07.10 | nomis | unixSnob: that problem sounds a lot like a problem for an AI. |
| 02:07.37 | unixSnob | Right, I understood that.. I suppose drivers must be able to access registers and the like. |
| 02:08.32 | unixSnob | But it sounds like drivers have free rein on every element in the system, and I think a smartly designed OS could stop that |
| 02:08.53 | nomis | the best thing a kernel can do is to provide APIs to access the ressources in a controlled manner, so that driver developers can use a more high level stuff with less chances to get stuffwrong. |
| 02:09.18 | unixSnob | Right, that makes sense |
| 02:09.30 | unixSnob | Does that happen? |
| 02:09.49 | nomis | (and the linux kernel does that, although the internal APIs tend to change frequently) |
| 02:10.13 | unixSnob | Does the windows kernel do that? |
| 02:10.18 | nomis | unixSnob: yeah. For examle if you want to use a DMA there is an API to request it, configure it and use it. |
| 02:10.37 | nomis | unixSnob: I would suspect that windows does that as well. I have no real clue though. |
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| 02:12.17 | unixSnob | That would actually be a good way to assess reliability on an OS.. by how much of an API is offered to drivers |
| 02:12.23 | nomis | anyway. It is 3:15 AM here and I'll head for the bed now. |
| 02:12.26 | nomis | Night all. |
| 02:12.31 | unixSnob | wow.. where are you? |
| 02:13.02 | nomis | unixSnob: Germany. |
| 02:13.15 | unixSnob | gooontahgin! |
| 02:13.21 | unixSnob | I'm sure I botched that |
| 02:13.47 | nomis | hm? |
| 02:14.04 | unixSnob | I was trying to say good night in german.. guess I really botched it |
| 02:14.08 | nomis | was that supposed to mean "Gute Nacht"? |
| 02:14.18 | unixSnob | lol.. yeah |
| 02:14.22 | nomis | :) |
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| 03:01.10 | oilinki3 | good morning |
| 03:04.03 | johnx | mornin' |
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| 03:45.43 | user__ | does anyone know what the default lock code is for the n810? |
| 03:48.29 | oilinki3 | lock code? |
| 03:49.04 | oilinki3 | ah, it can be locked as well :) |
| 03:49.59 | oilinki3 | I would try, 12345 |
| 03:51.09 | oilinki3 | The default lock code for the N810 is 12345 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14221 |
| 03:52.49 | ^Jsn^ | thanks |
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| 03:59.27 | ^Jsn^ | does anyone know how to refresh a webpage on the n810? |
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| 04:00.09 | elb | I think it's in the click-and-hold menu |
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| 04:01.18 | elb | it's also in the menu menu |
| 04:01.20 | dospod | hey |
| 04:02.08 | ^Jsn^ | i couldn't find it in the menu |
| 04:03.38 | ^Jsn^ | i was told that it was thre tab button but there isn't a tab key |
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| 04:14.56 | elb | the "tab button" as in the little icon on the window's tab |
| 04:14.58 | elb | I'm sure |
| 04:15.08 | elb | and it's under Navigation |
| 04:18.43 | *** part/#maemo smackpotato (n=user@bas2-toronto12-1128663887.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 04:22.26 | ^Jsn^ | does anyone know if there is an update for maemo mapper for the n810 that fixes the gps receiver problem? |
| 04:22.42 | elb | the problem is not in maemo mapper |
| 04:23.01 | *** join/#maemo Zetx (n=Zetx@user-105nbki.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 04:24.57 | ^Jsn^ | so it hasn't been fixed? |
| 04:27.37 | *** join/#maemo Raghu (n=Raghu@pool-71-96-215-151.dfw.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 04:31.09 | ^Jsn^ | is there any way to get satellite type images in maemo mapper? |
| 04:31.19 | *** join/#maemo livinded (n=livinded@cpe-24-24-189-105.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 04:32.09 | elb | I believe that is covered in the itt thread on the topic |
| 04:32.55 | ^Jsn^ | ok |
| 04:34.15 | livinded | which repos are safe and play nicely of the ones listed at http://gronmayer.com/it/ |
| 04:34.23 | livinded | and are actually useful to install? |
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| 05:08.12 | dookdook | nd_770 isn't around is he? |
| 05:17.31 | livinded | wow, maemopad+ is awesome |
| 05:21.12 | *** join/#maemo aloisiojr (n=aloisio@189.70.9.215) |
| 05:23.06 | T0b0tras | livinded: if only there was useful calendar application |
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| 05:24.18 | livinded | T0b0tras: I'm going to try to contribute to one, I need one as well |
| 05:24.52 | livinded | I'm fairly decent with C but have never touched gtk before |
| 05:27.52 | T0b0tras | livinded: yep. It's pretty easy if you ever made GUI programming. |
| 05:28.22 | T0b0tras | livinded: I didn't touch C for, erhm... 10 years maybe, and wrote pretty decent (I believe, huh-huh) utility in four days :) |
| 05:28.35 | livinded | I'm a kde guy but I dislike programming in C++ so I avoid a lot of gui programming |
| 05:28.50 | T0b0tras | livinded: See http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/notap/ |
| 05:30.19 | livinded | I'm working on a bluetooth chat program |
| 05:30.39 | livinded | I'm looking into integrating it with pidgin |
| 05:31.01 | livinded | there really isn't a reason to design a whole new gui when a pretty good one already exists |
| 05:31.30 | livinded | how does that contact viewer differ from the one that comes with the n810? |
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| 05:32.21 | derf | GTK is good stuff, compared to most GUI toolkits. |
| 05:32.40 | derf | It's still got its warts, but they're livable. |
| 05:33.02 | livinded | I like Qt a lot and cocoa is pretty nice, but I just don't like programming in C++ and I don't own a mac or know objective-c |
| 05:33.10 | BTobotras | livinded: it doesn't require six clicks to see one's phone number :) |
| 05:33.24 | derf | Well, if you don't like programming in C++, that already means you have good taste. |
| 05:34.08 | livinded | derf: I know, it's a shame that there are a few things that C++ actually almost is useful for |
| 05:34.31 | derf | livinded: I've never found one. |
| 05:34.49 | livinded | the way that qt is designed, it wouldn't really work well with C |
| 05:35.13 | derf | This is true of many libraries. I stand by my answer. |
| 05:35.41 | derf | Actually, I take it back. C++ has one useful feature, which is that it identifies bad programmers (i.e., those who want to use it). |
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| 05:35.59 | livinded | alright, maybe I phrased it wrong, C++ isn't really good for it, but there isn't an alternative available that as many programmers know |
| 05:36.22 | derf | That I'll believe. |
| 05:37.22 | derf | There's still a whole quantity vs. quality argument to be had in there, however. |
| 05:37.27 | livinded | the problem with C++ is that it badly fills a void that no other language does |
| 05:37.34 | derf | I suppose you can argue for many applications it doesn't really matter. |
| 05:37.57 | derf | Most programming in the real world is just plumbing, anyway. |
| 05:38.26 | *** part/#maemo desrt (n=desrt@copacetic.desrt.ca) |
| 05:39.34 | livinded | it's low level enough to be used in situations where you need speed and low level optimization while being high level enough to allow for object oriented design patterns |
| 05:39.56 | derf | Yes, but object-oriented design patterns are often completely inappropriate. |
| 05:40.12 | derf | The problem is they're often the _only_ design patterns taught in schools, so nobody knows anything else. |
| 05:40.21 | derf | And when all you've got's a hammer... |
| 05:41.05 | livinded | I hate the comp sci program at my school, they teach it so backwards |
| 05:41.43 | livinded | and waste a ton of time teaching concepts in useless ways |
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| 05:43.56 | derf | Welcome to the comp sci program in almost every school. |
| 05:45.10 | derf | It's okay though, a bad education system keeps me well employed. |
| 05:45.18 | livinded | hopefully I'll be able to test out of the assembly class and go straight into the compiler design, I don't want to waste a semester learning a virtual architecture that I will never see again |
| 05:45.50 | derf | As long as you know a _real_ architecture, that's okay. |
| 05:45.54 | livinded | ia32 |
| 05:46.08 | livinded | and I've done some work with arm |
| 05:46.13 | derf | But there's some value in learning a simplified, virtual architecture for people who've never had experience with that sort of thing before. |
| 05:46.38 | livinded | they could at least teach mips or arm, at least that would be potentially useful and still simplified |
| 05:47.10 | derf | But someone would have to write a textbook around it, and they're constantly changing. |
| 05:47.23 | derf | So whatever you learned would be out of date, anyway. |
| 05:49.02 | derf | But honestly... we spent less than half a semester on the virtual architecture when I took that course, and I'd already learned a similar virtual architecture in high school, so I spent maybe a grand total of 3 hours out of class on all of the projects for it. |
| 05:49.08 | derf | This does not strike me as a large time investment. |
| 05:49.11 | livinded | not really, the architecture manual available for free online and maybe a small intro into hardware design covering the different components, memory sections, should be sufficient |
| 05:49.41 | derf | livinded: I think you over-estimate most undergraduates' abilities. |
| 05:50.26 | derf | Normal people, even normal CS people, don't read architecture manuals. |
| 05:50.30 | livinded | considering the assembly class isn't required for the major I think it would be alright |
| 05:50.40 | derf | It isn't?! |
| 05:50.47 | derf | That's downright wrong. |
| 05:51.19 | livinded | my experience with arm was diassembling a binary I had carved out of a restore image by hand and reading the architecture manual to figure out how the bits were packed and what it was doing |
| 05:51.26 | derf | Please tell me there's _some_ kind of computer architecture class that's required. |
| 05:51.33 | livinded | nope |
| 05:51.40 | livinded | it's optional |
| 05:52.00 | derf | Don't tell me what school you go to. I don't want to lose all respect I might have for anyone who graduated from there. |
| 05:54.42 | derf | The one that really bothers me, and that I've run into a lot, are the people who don't know what the << and >> operators were originally for. |
| 05:56.50 | livinded | bitwise shift? |
| 05:57.09 | derf | Yes... there's a whole generation of students who don't know them as anything other the C++ I/O operators. |
| 05:57.19 | livinded | really? |
| 05:57.23 | derf | Really. |
| 05:57.25 | derf | It's astounding. |
| 05:57.57 | livinded | I'm totally against top down teaching of comp sci and they start us with java at my school |
| 05:58.09 | derf | I've talked to tenure-track professors who had never used them as such in their life. |
| 05:58.36 | derf | Well, Java is at least moderately cleaner than C++. |
| 05:58.51 | derf | It's a good language for mediocre programmers, which is probably what most students will wind up being. |
| 05:59.27 | livinded | I'd rather use something like SICP and teach scheme as the first class to get the students to understand what the language actually is doing |
| 06:00.12 | derf | The problem is, if you drown them in detail, many will give up before they figure out the big picture. |
| 06:00.20 | livinded | then use assembly for algorithms and work up from there teaching higher level languages as most graduates are going to be working with .net, java, or C++ most likely |
| 06:00.27 | derf | Now... maybe that's what you want. |
| 06:00.56 | derf | I know my undergrad university actively attempted to weed out students in the first two years. |
| 06:00.58 | livinded | derf: why should you saturate the field with incompetent programmers because there were a lot of lazy ones who wouldn't have graduated otherwise |
| 06:01.25 | derf | livinded: It's not that they're incompetent, it's that they don't learn the same way you do. |
| 06:02.09 | derf | There's also a big market for semi-competent programmers out there. |
| 06:02.23 | derf | As I said, most real-world programming is just plumbing. |
| 06:02.58 | derf | If all you had were extremely skilled programmers, they'd get bored out of their minds, and be ridiculously expensive in the bargain. |
| 06:03.08 | livinded | I just can't wait until I can take the security class, I'm going to just be evil to the other students |
| 06:03.58 | livinded | one of the rules is that you have to run a windows box, I'm going to run one with the NIC bound to a vmware device running openbsd which will only run publicfile and openssh |
| 06:04.15 | livinded | and maybe djbdns |
| 06:04.27 | derf | Nice. |
| 06:05.15 | livinded | not a single packet will ever touch the windows machine |
| 06:07.25 | Paavo | Sufficiently evil :) |
| 06:07.29 | derf | You might want to check before you do so, however. Some TA's do not have a sense of humor. |
| 06:08.50 | livinded | Paavo: this is the kind of stuff I think of when I zone out during my intro to java class |
| 06:09.16 | derf | You should definitely look into testing out more. |
| 06:09.24 | derf | I was taking 3rd-year courses by my second semester. |
| 06:09.35 | livinded | they wont let me |
| 06:10.02 | livinded | I wanted to go straight into the data structure class and compiler design class |
| 06:10.19 | derf | No, you usually have to jump through some administrative hoops first. |
| 06:10.25 | livinded | it doesn't help that I'm like 3 semesters behind in math though |
| 06:10.40 | derf | Oh, no, that won't help at all. |
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| 06:10.59 | livinded | I'm supposed to be in calc 1 or 2 and I'm in college algebra |
| 06:11.14 | derf | And it's too bad, too. I don't know about your school, but at mine the math department was MUCH nicer about just letting you take whatever courses you wanted. |
| 06:11.37 | derf | The only reason I didn't die of boredom. |
| 06:11.53 | livinded | I've always been a really bad student because I just didn't care, and now I'm stuck taking math classes over again |
| 06:12.05 | livinded | it's holding up everything else |
| 06:12.20 | derf | You're supposed to actually care when you're paying good money for it. |
| 06:12.29 | livinded | no, this was in high school |
| 06:12.48 | derf | Well, they wouldn't let me take advanced math courses in high school either. |
| 06:12.59 | derf | Then I finished a BS in math in two and a half years. |
| 06:13.08 | livinded | oh, if I had actually passed my classes I could have gone into them |
| 06:13.26 | livinded | I just never studied or did my homework |
| 06:13.50 | derf | It usually takes a concerted effort to fail high school courses. |
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| 06:28.21 | Robdgreat | There any morse code training programs for Maemo? |
| 06:32.32 | Proteous | -. --- |
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| 06:35.12 | doc|home | did you just answer someone who was looking to learn morse code *in* morse code, which they won't understand? :) |
| 06:35.14 | Proteous | -.-- --- ..- -- .. --. .... - -... . .- -... .-.. . - --- ..-. .. -. -.. .- ..-. .-.. .- ... .... --- -. . |
| 06:35.21 | Proteous | me? no |
| 06:35.22 | Proteous | :P |
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| 06:39.33 | Robdgreat | flash is a no-go. I'm going to attempt to write one in python |
| 06:39.43 | Robdgreat | thanks for confirming what I suspected :) |
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| 06:55.37 | pupnik | http://blogs.adobe.com/penguin.swf/linuxaudio.png welcome to linux audio |
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| 06:57.57 | Stskeeps | it kind of looks how i've linked my electronics together with cables |
| 06:57.57 | Stskeeps | :P |
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| 07:10.21 | doc|home | http://www.revver.com/video/522307/iphysics-09-for-the-iphone/ |
| 07:12.45 | czr | doc|home, I learned chinese that way |
| 07:13.05 | doc|home | erm, what? :) |
| 07:13.19 | doc|home | by dropping graphically drawn objects onto the characters? :) |
| 07:13.19 | czr | yeah. they taught chinese _in_ chinese while I stayed there. |
| 07:13.39 | czr | well, we did have books, crappy ones, which had _some_ english. but the teacher didn't know any english. only chinese. |
| 07:13.51 | czr | it was an "interesting" method to learn a foreign language. |
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| 07:16.30 | dookdook | if i compile something for the armel thing, then just copy it over to the nokia, can i run it? or does it need to be packaged in some debian package? |
| 07:16.44 | truls | czr: i liked that approach for japanese |
| 07:17.56 | czr | truls :-) |
| 07:18.00 | jku | dookdook, that works |
| 07:18.18 | dookdook | hmm...maybe i compiled it wrong... |
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| 07:21.18 | Cptn-N800 | Ugh |
| 07:21.30 | Cptn-N800 | whats the link to the site with the repos again? |
| 07:23.47 | pupnik | gronmayer.com/it |
| 07:24.05 | Cptn-N800 | Thx |
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| 07:25.29 | dookdook | to be clear, if scratchbox, i do 'sb-conf select CHINOOK_ARMEL', 'gcc blabedyblah' and that will create an executable that i can just copy over to the nokia to run? |
| 07:26.11 | doc|home | czr: erm, I think you misunderstand what it is I linked to :) |
| 07:26.19 | jku | dookdook, yes should work |
| 07:26.48 | jku | dookdook, what does "file <executable_name>" say? |
| 07:26.58 | czr | doc|home, what is? linked to? bleh :-) just woke up, need clear semantics! |
| 07:27.17 | jku | dookdook, and does it work in scratchbox? |
| 07:27.22 | dookdook | hell: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.8, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped |
| 07:27.32 | doc|home | czr: the url :) |
| 07:27.46 | dookdook | and it does work in scratchbox. i do 'run-standalone.sh ./hell' and it runs fine |
| 07:28.13 | czr | doc|home, ahhh. I never noticed the link. meant that in the same way as the morse-thingy that you noted about before :-) |
| 07:30.25 | jku | dookdook, cli or gtk application? |
| 07:31.02 | dookdook | gtk+ i believe...its the simple hello world from the tutorial |
| 07:31.06 | dookdook | and whats cli? |
| 07:31.15 | dookdook | also, notice that on the nokia, its not executable... |
| 07:31.31 | jku | ah, dookdook is it on a card? |
| 07:31.39 | dookdook | yes |
| 07:31.44 | jku | move it out :) |
| 07:33.21 | dookdook | and then change properties to executable? |
| 07:33.37 | jku | yes |
| 07:33.50 | jku | FAT doesn't have fancy things like that |
| 07:35.17 | jku | for easy testing cycle I suggest install ssh -- you can just scp things to the tablet and even run things remotely |
| 07:35.58 | pupnik | nfs for me |
| 07:36.39 | dookdook | ok, so i moved it into a directory under MyDocs, changed it so its executable, but still no luck |
| 07:36.59 | jku | error messages? |
| 07:37.45 | dookdook | ah! never mind |
| 07:37.57 | dookdook | ok, so running from the command line works, but clicking on it from the file menu doesn't execute it... |
| 07:38.06 | jku | yeah |
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| 07:38.54 | dookdook | so you can't launch applications from the file manager? |
| 07:39.19 | jku | no, but there's really no need, is there? |
| 07:39.39 | dookdook | its just typing is so slow... |
| 07:40.22 | jku | there may be some desktop applets that let you add an icon to desktop... |
| 07:40.34 | jku | but really, try ssh |
| 07:42.00 | dookdook | yeah, i'll get that installed |
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| 07:43.04 | dookdook | just a few questions, if you don't mind. you can't run applications from the memory cards? and whats up with the permissions? i noticed that the group was root for the file on the memory card, making it so i couldn't change its properties.. |
| 07:43.36 | melmoth | vfat does not store owner/group info as far as i know |
| 07:44.04 | dookdook | is there an equivalent of sudo in this environment |
| 07:44.13 | melmoth | sudo :) |
| 07:44.14 | dookdook | ah, ok, sorry, you mentioned that earlier jku, i missed it... |
| 07:44.36 | dookdook | right right...so i sudo, asking for a password...i never set up a root account... |
| 07:44.47 | melmoth | thouhg i have problems with it when i add myself to the sudoers files (boot hang), so i just ssh root@localhost when needed |
| 07:45.21 | melmoth | dookdook: install ssh from extras repo, the configuration part will prompt you for a root password |
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| 07:47.42 | dookdook | melmoth, can i just do something like apt-get install ssh on the nokia? |
| 07:48.01 | jku | as root yes |
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| 07:48.39 | dookdook | um...if i can't change root password till i install ssh and i can't install ssh until i have root... |
| 07:49.03 | dookdook | oh, meaning, i can't until i have ssh set up via other means |
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| 07:49.59 | melmoth | you should do, as long as the extras reposiory is activated |
| 07:50.35 | melmoth | (go in the pakcages installer application , it s there by default but not enabled) |
| 07:50.44 | melmoth | now, i have to rush. good luck. |
| 07:52.32 | dookdook | wait, sorry, wheres the packages installer? |
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| 07:55.53 | jku | dookdook, Application Manager |
| 07:56.14 | jku | in settings, IIRC |
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| 07:56.24 | dookdook | thanks, got it |
| 07:56.30 | dookdook | wow, flite too |
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| 07:58.31 | dookdook | ach...application manager quits out every once in a while. is it still a little buggy? |
| 07:58.43 | jku | haven't seen that |
| 08:02.26 | GeneralAntilles | App Manager is open |
| 08:02.36 | GeneralAntilles | I'm not sure why somebody hasn't gone in and tried to patch it up a bit. |
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| 08:12.54 | jku | that somebody sure is lazy |
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| 08:23.19 | dagb | Is there a definitve answer to the question if the CX3110x/STLC4550 |
| 08:23.26 | dagb | can work in master mode |
| 08:23.35 | dagb | I.e. as an AP. |
| 08:24.00 | GeneralAntilles | No. |
| 08:24.18 | GeneralAntilles | Unless you want to re-write the drivers, then "maybe". |
| 08:25.38 | dagb | 'No' as in 'there is no definitve answer' or as in 'cannot work in master mode' or 'cannot work in master mode with current drivers'? |
| 08:26.12 | dagb | I was under the impression that this is also a hardware feature. I might be mistaken. |
| 08:26.20 | GeneralAntilles | <GeneralAntilles> Unless you want to re-write the drivers, then "maybe". |
| 08:26.32 | GeneralAntilles | I don't know whether or not the hardware supports it. |
| 08:26.43 | GeneralAntilles | But I do know it is definitely not possible with the current drivers. |
| 08:26.43 | dagb | Ok. thanks. |
| 08:31.14 | dagb | Would be cool to be able to use the n800 as a mobile hotspot, with uplink via bluetooth/3G. |
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| 08:32.45 | jku | oh, finally. A new stable D-Bus release (1.1.20) |
| 08:33.09 | jku | I hope it makes it to Diablo |
| 08:34.36 | dookdook | scummvm doesn't come with any games, does it? |
| 08:34.49 | dookdook | (and if not, where can i find games for scumm?) |
| 08:35.42 | jku | several games on scummvm.org |
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| 08:36.38 | jku | the rest you mostly can't get legally if you don't own them already |
| 08:37.37 | dookdook | nice, thanks. |
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| 08:38.07 | dookdook | there definately seems to be something wrong with my battery. it hasn't been on more than an hour and its saying its as if it has 4 hours of use... |
| 08:38.29 | dookdook | oh, wait, nevermind |
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| 08:42.50 | Zic | somebody know the format of the futur MID of Intel ? |
| 08:42.58 | Zic | more like a N810, or a Samsung Q1 Ultra ? |
| 08:43.08 | Zic | (not hardware skill, just format) |
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| 08:43.28 | dookdook | yeah, video is definately a little slow. playing an .avi under mplayer and its a little jerky |
| 08:44.30 | johnx | you'll probably have to re-encode a lot of your videos to make them playable 400x240 divx/mp4 w/ mp3 audio @ 700 - 1000Kb/s is pretty optimal |
| 08:44.56 | GeneralAntilles | Zic, somewhere between a NIT and a UMPC. |
| 08:45.05 | GeneralAntilles | Intel has reference designs on their website. |
| 08:45.18 | Zic | oh, I don't see it, thanks |
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| 08:45.41 | GeneralAntilles | dookdook, I've had good success with a lot of stuff in the ~560x420 range. |
| 08:45.42 | Zic | GeneralAntilles: the final question, is, is it « pocketable » |
| 08:45.55 | GeneralAntilles | and low-motion widescreen stuff up into the 600-pixel range horizontal. |
| 08:45.58 | Zic | for example, the actual hardware to dev Ubuntu Mobile is a Samsung Q1 Ultra |
| 08:46.08 | dookdook | ok, thanks for the suggestions |
| 08:46.16 | Zic | it's definately not "pocketable" like a N810 |
| 08:46.21 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
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| 08:48.58 | johnx | Zic, on google, search "intel mid site:engadget.com" and you'll end up with a lot of examples |
| 08:49.07 | Zic | thanks |
| 08:50.06 | GeneralAntilles | http://www.intel.com/products/mid/index.htm |
| 08:50.40 | Zic | GeneralAntilles: yes, I found this page, but no info about dimension |
| 08:50.45 | Zic | just pictures … |
| 08:51.00 | GeneralAntilles | LCD ~5 in. |
| 08:51.45 | Zic | so, the futur MID of Intel will be more a N810 platform ? |
| 08:52.00 | Zic | like a* |
| 08:52.05 | GeneralAntilles | <GeneralAntilles>Zic, somewhere between a NIT and a UMPC. |
| 08:52.18 | Zic | ok |
| 08:53.12 | dookdook | and why is the camera so poor? isn't it supposed to be 640x480? |
| 08:53.49 | GeneralAntilles | Resolution has little to do with image quality. |
| 08:53.58 | johnx | it's a crappy lens attached to a crappy sensor |
| 08:54.41 | dookdook | oh... |
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| 08:56.50 | hrw | morning |
| 09:00.04 | solmumaha | morning |
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| 09:02.38 | Zic | somebody use it ? => https://garage.maemo.org/projects/usb-otg-plugin/ |
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| 09:11.03 | dookdook | um...ifconfig and misc. other tools? |
| 09:11.44 | hrw | johnx: camera sensor was added as bonus from chip vendors probably |
| 09:12.06 | johnx | swag handed out at a convention maybe? :) |
| 09:12.09 | hrw | 'take 100 000 of chips and we will give you 100 000 crappy camera sensors as bonus' |
| 09:12.31 | johnx | dookdook, ifconfig is in /sbin |
| 09:12.35 | johnx | it's a symlink to busybox |
| 09:12.57 | hrw | same was with gps chip - TI added chips as bonus to cpu order |
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| 09:13.25 | dookdook | johnx, thanks. i really hate being so stupid sometimes |
| 09:13.26 | hrw | yesterday I drove 15-20km and n810 was not able to get fix during that time |
| 09:14.17 | johnx | hrw, nice... ;) |
| 09:14.24 | Stskeeps | mm, any pymaemo developers around? i have an odd problem when trying to build the python package using both dpkg-buildpackage and pythonsdk - ending up in failing in sharedinstall with build/lib-armel-something "illegal seek" or "function not implemented", when running under chinook-armel |
| 09:15.01 | BTobotras | Zic: yes. Looks like working one :) |
| 09:15.35 | Zic | thanks :) |
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| 09:25.52 | jku | Stskeeps, "function not implemented": code probably does something that qemu is not capable of |
| 09:26.06 | AD-N770 | bon dia / good morning |
| 09:26.22 | Stskeeps | jku: yeah, figured as much :P just wondered how they built the package in the first place then |
| 09:26.54 | jku | Stskeeps, hmm? you said it fails when running? |
| 09:27.13 | Stskeeps | yeah, dpkg-buildpackage with the usual parameters fails when building |
| 09:27.16 | Stskeeps | in make sharedinstall |
| 09:27.22 | jku | oh right |
| 09:27.29 | Stskeeps | (with the source from apt-get source python-2.5) |
| 09:27.46 | jku | well that's weird |
| 09:28.18 | Stskeeps | so now i'm just trying to see if trying under maemo-sdk+ would make any difference |
| 09:28.56 | jku | big thing like python, you're bound to end up in problems... but probably different ones :) |
| 09:29.04 | Stskeeps | probably :P |
| 09:29.18 | Stskeeps | why i'm asking is because i'm attempting to make a stackless python port as well to experiment with migrating code using pickling tasklets |
| 09:29.45 | jku | cool |
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| 10:15.21 | Zic | Hmm, I've somme issue with Hardy Heron and the Maemo Scratchbox => http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/57672/ |
| 10:15.33 | Zic | somebody has an idea ? |
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| 10:20.54 | jjo | Zic: http://www.progbox.co.uk/wordpress/?p=453 comments 12 and 13 |
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| 10:23.42 | dookdook | ad-n770, you around? |
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| 10:26.45 | AD-N770 | yes, dookdook |
| 10:26.57 | AD-N770 | dookdook: good morning |
| 10:27.31 | dookdook | ad-n770 gm. so, i got scratchbox running, along with xephyr and the sdk. i got a hello world program going and put it on the nokia |
| 10:27.58 | dookdook | so, i was hoping to try my hand at the mpeg2 stuff |
| 10:29.23 | AD-N770 | dookdook: last time that I was doing this stuff I noticed that qemu cann't run arm6 instructions, so you will have to write and test it on the device |
| 10:29.51 | Zic | jjo: thanks, it works |
| 10:29.57 | dookdook | i might be remembering incorrectly, i thought qemu could but it was just slow? |
| 10:30.24 | AD-N770 | dookdook: my approach would be create a unit test simple code to test your assembly and including the C reference |
| 10:31.07 | AD-N770 | dookdook: last time that I checked qemu can't run arm6 media instructions due a legal restriction from arm |
| 10:31.19 | zuh | It was lifted recently |
| 10:31.48 | AD-N770 | zuh: and qemu emulates it now? |
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| 10:32.17 | zuh | http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.emulators.qemu/21268/match=permission |
| 10:32.35 | dookdook | ad-n770, i compiled the hello world for arm, set up the appropriate scratchbox environment and it ran fine... |
| 10:32.40 | dookdook | same code ran on the nokia... |
| 10:32.43 | AD-N770 | zuh: nice news |
| 10:34.32 | zuh | jumpula: Was an ARMv6-cabable qemu included in the recent sb cputransparency release? |
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| 10:35.43 | AD-N770 | dookdook: seems that I was wrong, I use to add -march=armv6j -mtune=arm1136j-s when the target device is n8x0 |
| 10:36.15 | AD-N770 | dookdook: I use to install ssh server and gdb on the device also |
| 10:36.27 | dookdook | i've got ssh running |
| 10:36.39 | dookdook | and you use gdb? |
| 10:36.42 | AD-N770 | dookdook: with a mini unit test it's easier to debug that with the decoder |
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| 10:37.06 | dookdook | i don't want to pollute this channel..you want to go somewhere else and chat? |
| 10:37.15 | AD-N770 | dookdook: yes, I use gdb on the device |
| 10:38.07 | jumpula | zuh: depends how capable you want it to be |
| 10:38.33 | jumpula | zuh: as you know, the userland qemu is far from perfect |
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| 10:40.07 | florian | good morning |
| 10:40.11 | jumpula | but there are qemu's in the devkit that should run code compiled with options like -march=armv7a -mcpu=cortex-a8 |
| 10:40.33 | jumpula | so, arm6 *should* be pretty okay... |
| 10:41.16 | jumpula | i've grown too cautious to say things like a simple yes :] |
| 10:41.51 | jumpula | (not implying that a simple yes would do in this case) |
| 10:43.38 | zuh | Oh yes, the "cabable" was more like "after the support has been implemented" not "v6 instructions work" :) |
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| 10:54.29 | Andy80 | hi all |
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| 11:23.48 | b0unc3 | good morning |
| 11:27.48 | maddler | hey b0unc3 |
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| 11:42.08 | pupnik | solmumaha ported/builded Duke Nukem 3d! Very fast :) Discussion at http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17315 OS2007 and 2008 deb download at http://pupnik.de/duke3d_1.5.deb |
| 11:43.43 | aquatix | ooh :) |
| 11:48.56 | Tama^2 | wow |
| 11:48.59 | Tama^2 | great stuff! |
| 11:49.18 | Blafasel | *waits for Duke Nukem Forever* |
| 11:49.51 | solmumaha | it should be out anytime now! |
| 11:50.26 | Blafasel | Repeat that for years to stay close ot the original ;) |
| 11:52.24 | MoRpHeUz | pupnik: any place to get duke3d.grp ? =/ hehe |
| 11:54.13 | MangoFusion | buy it? ;) |
| 11:57.01 | MoRpHeUz | MangoFusion: where can I buy the game these days ? hehe =) |
| 11:58.09 | solmumaha | 3drealms store |
| 11:58.29 | *** join/#maemo pupnik_ (n=pupnik@dslb-088-068-123-119.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:58.48 | *** join/#maemo red-zack (n=mk@p5B04497F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:02.14 | solmumaha | but it kinda needs a hardware keyboard, you run out of controls with n800 |
| 12:02.57 | glass | shoulder buttons would help |
| 12:03.11 | aquatix | get an iGo? :) |
| 12:03.22 | aquatix | maemo.org is down? |
| 12:03.37 | MoRpHeUz | better not play. US$20,00 the cdrom + 77% of taxes. too expensive. |
| 12:03.57 | GeneralAntilles | Works fine here, aquatix. |
| 12:04.06 | aquatix | weird |
| 12:04.50 | *** join/#maemo CrashandLie (n=Crashand@lns-bzn-47f-81-56-209-63.adsl.proxad.net) |
| 12:05.23 | pupnik_ | i got duke nukem free from the publisher :P |
| 12:06.22 | *** join/#maemo Sho_ (i=ehs1@kde/hein) |
| 12:06.34 | pupnik_ | it should be great with a bluetooth keyboard |
| 12:06.46 | aquatix | me is happy with his iGo kb |
| 12:07.02 | aquatix | didn't know it would be made of aluminum |
| 12:07.21 | dookdook | um, i have apt-get, but apparently nothing in my sources.list |
| 12:07.29 | dookdook | what should i put there (specifically to get gdb?) |
| 12:08.20 | pupnik_ | on os2008 there's a subdir with various sources |
| 12:08.38 | *** join/#maemo edistar_ (n=edistar@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 12:08.40 | pupnik_ | not sure where users are supposed to add em |
| 12:08.50 | pupnik_ | but the repo is |
| 12:09.35 | pupnik_ | on gronmayer :P |
| 12:10.50 | *** join/#maemo kenne (n=kenneth@200.184.118.132) |
| 12:12.18 | dookdook | pupnik_, thanks |
| 12:12.44 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (n=tso@61.84-49-136.nextgentel.com) |
| 12:13.06 | *** join/#maemo tony2001 (n=tony@mail.daylessday.org) |
| 12:13.08 | tony2001 | re |
| 12:14.09 | tony2001 | does anyone from Nokia know if there are any plans on opensourcing the Metalayer Crawler or at least releasing its specifications/documentation? |
| 12:15.58 | Jaffa | tony2001: if it's not already open source, qgil's previously said the best way is to raise an issues in bugs.maemo.org explaining why it should be opensource (or at least documented). |
| 12:16.18 | tony2001 | already done |
| 12:16.29 | tony2001 | but that doesn't seem to work =| |
| 12:16.38 | Tama^2 | tony can you paste the link to the bug report? |
| 12:16.44 | tony2001 | wait a sec |
| 12:16.49 | Tama^2 | thanks :) |
| 12:17.14 | tony2001 | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2836 |
| 12:17.31 | tony2001 | this one is very annoying (well.. to me) |
| 12:17.44 | *** join/#maemo henrique (n=henrique@unaffiliated/henrique) |
| 12:17.45 | Tama^2 | IMO a substitute for the metalayer crawler would be easy to write becaus ethe sqlite db where it stores data is VERY simple |
| 12:17.57 | felipec | tony2001: we canot comment on any plans but I'll try to give this more visibility to this issue |
| 12:18.40 | *** join/#maemo luck^ (n=Luciano@200.184.118.132) |
| 12:19.01 | Tama^2 | anyway it should store metadata together with the data, not on the internal flash |
| 12:19.13 | tony2001 | Tama^2: I thought about it, but it would be much easier to fix the crawler than to write something similar from scratch |
| 12:19.27 | *** join/#maemo batiestuta (n=chatzill@123.112.5.238) |
| 12:19.32 | tony2001 | Tama^2: good point |
| 12:19.38 | tony2001 | felipec: thanks in advance |
| 12:19.43 | dookdook | hm...can't seem to find gcc, though it says its installed when i try and apt-get |
| 12:20.03 | aquatix | anyone an idea why adblock plus won't work on my microb? |
| 12:20.32 | aquatix | i installed it, it started working, then i installed some dictionary plugins, uninstalled them again, and now it won't work |
| 12:20.38 | aquatix | shows up in the list though |
| 12:21.05 | GeneralAntilles | It's a gross CPU hog on the tablet, anyway. |
| 12:21.09 | GeneralAntilles | Better off with hosts/css. |
| 12:21.36 | aquatix | hm, maybe |
| 12:21.49 | aquatix | but it really helps preserving bandwidth when on gprs |
| 12:22.01 | GeneralAntilles | That's what the hosts file is for. |
| 12:22.03 | aquatix | and it's more finegrained |
| 12:22.12 | aquatix | no, not all |
| 12:22.30 | aquatix | as you might want to block http://example.com/images/banner/ but not the rest |
| 12:22.44 | Tama^2 | I installed OS2007 and found that the battery consumption problem goes away |
| 12:22.56 | Tama^2 | so it's a regression in OS2008 |
| 12:22.57 | GeneralAntilles | Meh, the big CPU and memory hit from AdBlock doesn't make finegrained control worth it. |
| 12:22.59 | Tama^2 | :( |
| 12:23.17 | GeneralAntilles | Tama^2, what's eating your CPU? |
| 12:23.19 | aquatix | GeneralAntilles: do you have a good hosts file somewhere? |
| 12:23.27 | GeneralAntilles | google it, aquatix. . . . |
| 12:23.32 | MoRpHeUz | lightmediascanner does a great job regarding scanning metadata =) |
| 12:23.34 | aquatix | yeah, googling |
| 12:23.49 | aquatix | but there are loads of them; just wondering whether you found a good one |
| 12:23.58 | GeneralAntilles | They're all about the same as far as I can tell. |
| 12:23.59 | Tama^2 | GA: the kernel :P |
| 12:24.02 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (n=tso@61.84-49-136.nextgentel.com) |
| 12:24.05 | aquatix | kk |
| 12:24.47 | Tama^2 | with sdcards inserted it drains 10x more power |
| 12:24.54 | Tama^2 | on OS2008 that is |
| 12:25.02 | aquatix | it does? |
| 12:25.05 | Tama^2 | no problem with OS2007 |
| 12:25.06 | GeneralAntilles | and it idles properly with the OS2007 kernel? |
| 12:25.09 | GeneralAntilles | Interesting. |
| 12:25.30 | Tama^2 | well, OS2008 reports to be at the lowest clock setting too |
| 12:25.51 | GeneralAntilles | Whether the SD cards are idling will have nothing to do with CPU usage, aquatix. |
| 12:26.11 | aquatix | metalayer-crawler is on 0.0 here |
| 12:26.15 | aquatix | with minisd card |
| 12:26.17 | Tama^2 | nonetheless the battery lasts 25 hours on OS2008 and *many* days on OS2007 |
| 12:26.33 | Tama^2 | aquatix: it's not a metalayer problem |
| 12:26.48 | aquatix | ok, i'm missing a part of the conversation then, sorry :) |
| 12:26.48 | GeneralAntilles | Tama^2, is there an easy way to check if the SD cards go to idle? |
| 12:27.03 | aquatix | ah, like that |
| 12:27.08 | Tama^2 | with a modified kernel one can see log lines indicating the power mode |
| 12:27.18 | Tama^2 | power mode '3' should be the lowest |
| 12:27.26 | GeneralAntilles | I left my alternate in N800 in car for 3 days and it had 7 days idle remaining. |
| 12:27.32 | Tama^2 | and I verified taht in OS2008 it always goes to more '3' |
| 12:27.32 | GeneralAntilles | Though it only has two SD cards. |
| 12:28.14 | Tama^2 | O.o |
| 12:28.24 | Tama^2 | you mean it had two cards inserted? |
| 12:28.31 | GeneralAntilles | Yes. |
| 12:28.43 | GeneralAntilles | One 512MB and one 2GB |
| 12:29.01 | Tama^2 | that is what I get when the cards are *not* inserted |
| 12:29.05 | Tama^2 | :/ |
| 12:29.28 | *** join/#maemo Khertan (n=khertan@nax2.naxos-fr.net) |
| 12:29.35 | Khertan | Hi ! |
| 12:29.41 | Tama^2 | I will check the logs when it's done with the current rundown test |
| 12:29.47 | Tama^2 | Hi Khertan |
| 12:30.02 | GeneralAntilles | Tama^2, didn't we decide last time that there may have been some difference between SD and SDHC cards? |
| 12:30.27 | Tama^2 | I do not remember that |
| 12:30.35 | Tama^2 | yours are SDs? |
| 12:30.42 | Khertan | Maybe someone can explain me how to use Hildon.TimeEditor ... there is now signal to connect when value is change by user |
| 12:30.43 | GeneralAntilles | On the alt-N800, yeah. |
| 12:30.45 | Tama^2 | mina are SDHC |
| 12:30.58 | Tama^2 | *mine |
| 12:31.02 | GeneralAntilles | I haven't bothered to do any idle-rundowns on my primary device |
| 12:31.05 | GeneralAntilles | Use it too much. ;) |
| 12:31.32 | melmoth | ok. |
| 12:31.34 | melmoth | oups |
| 12:31.37 | dookdook | i noticed that too. the battery was dead after about 24 hours. i have a n800 with 2 2gb sd cards... |
| 12:31.40 | *** join/#maemo alterego (n=alterego@88-109-191-31.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 12:31.42 | Tama^2 | I am tired of running these tests... I want to start using this tablet! |
| 12:31.48 | GeneralAntilles | Tama^2, out of interest, have you done the rundown with different cards? |
| 12:31.58 | Tama^2 | Yes I have, GA |
| 12:32.15 | *** join/#maemo barisione (n=barision@host150-71-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 12:32.21 | GeneralAntilles | Huh |
| 12:32.29 | Tama^2 | but all the cards I have are SDHC (except for the nokia one) |
| 12:32.37 | GeneralAntilles | Somebody take this sharpened stick and go poke fanoush. :P |
| 12:33.54 | Tama^2 | I think I will stick with OS2007 for a while so I can finally use the tablet to listen to music |
| 12:34.25 | *** join/#maemo shackan (n=frob@87.1.93.221) |
| 12:34.41 | Tama^2 | and does not die when leave it sitting there for an afternnon |
| 12:34.45 | Tama^2 | *afternoon |
| 12:35.31 | GeneralAntilles | No trouble here using OS2008. |
| 12:35.35 | GeneralAntilles | You should just charge more often. |
| 12:37.00 | *** join/#maemo X-Fade_ (n=xfade@63.111-247-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 12:37.39 | Tama^2 | with 2 sdhc cards in and in use it does not last enough to be used as a portable music player |
| 12:37.52 | Tama^2 | at least not with the problem I am experiencing |
| 12:37.59 | aquatix | :( |
| 12:38.22 | GeneralAntilles | Have you opened a bug yet? |
| 12:38.41 | BTobotras | Looks okay |
| 12:38.53 | Tama^2 | it depends on the cards apparently |
| 12:39.12 | Tama^2 | No, I want to have some hard evidence before opening a bug |
| 12:39.29 | Tama^2 | I do not want to get asked the usual silly questions |
| 12:39.40 | *** part/#maemo killfill (n=killfill@200.73.13.54) |
| 12:39.44 | Tama^2 | if this or that is running and in which mode |
| 12:40.14 | aquatix | something else, do you guys use a screen protector? |
| 12:40.31 | GeneralAntilles | Yes. |
| 12:40.41 | GeneralAntilles | Used a 770 for year without one. |
| 12:40.47 | tony2001 | felipec: thanks |
| 12:40.52 | Tama^2 | I do, I mean... I left on the film it had when I took it out of the box |
| 12:40.57 | GeneralAntilles | It noticeably scratched. |
| 12:41.07 | GeneralAntilles | s/It/It is/ |
| 12:41.49 | GeneralAntilles | I recommend the anti-glare |
| 12:41.55 | aquatix | myeah |
| 12:42.04 | aquatix | i have the anti-glare on my clie |
| 12:42.09 | GeneralAntilles | Excellent visibility improvement in most lighting conditions. |
| 12:42.18 | GeneralAntilles | Great texture for stylus and fingers. |
| 12:42.18 | aquatix | and a cleartouch on my smartphone |
| 12:42.21 | aquatix | like them both |
| 12:42.33 | GeneralAntilles | Durable, and reapplicable. |
| 12:42.43 | aquatix | yups, i love boxwave screen protectors |
| 12:42.54 | aquatix | i'll get a cleartouch though |
| 12:43.14 | aquatix | i think |
| 12:43.34 | GeneralAntilles | I wouldn't. |
| 12:43.46 | GeneralAntilles | Anti-glare really improves outdoor visibility. |
| 12:43.55 | aquatix | that's true |
| 12:44.00 | aquatix | i love it on my clie |
| 12:44.02 | aquatix | hm :) |
| 12:44.55 | Juhaz | I haven't found 770 scratching very easily, given you don't touch it with sand/dirt on your fingers, and keep the freaking cover on when putting it in pocket |
| 12:45.02 | Juhaz | only few after several years |
| 12:45.29 | aquatix | well, i use the tip of my finger nail quite a lot on the screen |
| 12:45.39 | aquatix | so i'm more comfortable with a protector |
| 12:46.05 | GeneralAntilles | Juhaz, regardless, the improvements in visibility and texture are well worth it. |
| 12:46.49 | aquatix | GeneralAntilles: can't use it as quick mirror anymore though ;) |
| 12:47.05 | GeneralAntilles | Compacts are for women. :P |
| 12:47.22 | aquatix | spying on the chick behind you ;) |
| 12:47.55 | Juhaz | fingernails aren't that hard, unless you're sharpening them that shouldn't be an issue, probably safer than with the stylus. |
| 12:48.03 | Juhaz | but sure, it might be worth a shot for just anti-glare |
| 12:48.42 | BTobotras | aquarius-: that's what camera is for :) |
| 12:49.10 | aquatix | BTobotras: immediately record it ;) |
| 12:49.15 | *** join/#maemo aloisiojr (n=aloisio@200.184.118.132) |
| 12:51.24 | aquatix | it lowers the clarity of the screen a bit though |
| 12:51.36 | *** join/#maemo achadwick (n=achadwic@nat-alpha.ceu.ox.ac.uk) |
| 12:51.43 | Juhaz | sure, no free lunch. |
| 12:51.44 | aquatix | might be annoying in xterminal |
| 12:51.47 | aquatix | heheh |
| 12:51.59 | aquatix | speaking of which... |
| 12:52.07 | GeneralAntilles | Not noticeably. |
| 12:52.20 | aquatix | GeneralAntilles: a bit, iirc from my clie th55 |
| 12:52.30 | aquatix | but indeed, only a bit |
| 12:53.10 | jeddy3 | nice tip on boxwave, ordered one right now |
| 12:53.23 | aquatix | jeddy3: yeah, they are the best imho |
| 12:53.29 | dookdook | so i found a /var/lib/dpkg/info/gcc-3.4-base.list and it shows a couple of files having to do with documentation but no actual gcc...does gcc-3.4-base not actually install gcc? |
| 12:53.33 | achadwick | maemo-mapper users: anyone know if Track>Save... will export Marks to GPX? |
| 12:53.34 | GeneralAntilles | It mostly just reduces brightness a bit (Boxwave says 5%), it really doesn't affect clarity. |
| 12:53.53 | aquatix | and they have screen protectors for almost all things with a touch screen ;) |
| 12:53.57 | GeneralAntilles | jeddy3, I used that one for 6 months. |
| 12:54.01 | aquatix | GeneralAntilles: i meant brightness indeed |
| 12:54.03 | jeddy3 | ...so i'm guessing most real protectors will be an improvement :) |
| 12:54.05 | GeneralAntilles | It was . . . messy when I took it off. |
| 12:54.08 | lcdd | jeddy3: i do too, but it scratches like hell |
| 12:54.33 | *** join/#maemo Vudentz_ (n=dentz@200.184.118.132) |
| 12:54.40 | aquatix | there was a screen protector in the package? |
| 12:54.55 | hrw | only transport foil was with n810 |
| 12:54.57 | GeneralAntilles | "shipping protector" |
| 12:55.07 | aquatix | hrw: ah :) |
| 12:55.10 | GeneralAntilles | It doubles nicely as a screen protector, though. |
| 12:55.22 | achadwick | "remove to ensure proper operation of the touchscreen" IIRC |
| 12:55.27 | GeneralAntilles | Well, with the earlier units, anyway, they started putting a nasty sticker on them with the newer ones. |
| 12:55.28 | hrw | GeneralAntilles: if you remove all those non-transparent parts from it |
| 12:55.35 | achadwick | Also, mine had a little tab on it for removal. |
| 12:55.45 | jeddy3 | aquatix, yes...one sheapo already attached to screen with a plastic thingy to pull it off with...just removed the plastic :) |
| 12:56.00 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah, the earlier ones just had the easy-to-remove tab, the new ones also have a little 2d barcode sticker. |
| 12:56.12 | jeddy3 | GeneralAntilles, :/ |
| 12:57.02 | lcdd | removing the sticker wasn't too difficult |
| 12:57.47 | *** join/#maemo MangoFusion (n=jamesu@host217-43-242-39.range217-43.btcentralplus.com) |
| 12:58.07 | aquatix | iirc, my sony ericsson smartphone shipped with some sticker that stuck so darn well i almost tore off the touch screen |
| 12:58.16 | aquatix | while being very careful |
| 12:58.20 | GeneralAntilles | Tab: http://jkontherun.blogs.com/jkontherun/Nokia_20N800_20Internet_20Tablet.jpg |
| 12:58.31 | GeneralAntilles | You can also see the nasty sticker here: http://myskitch.com/markguim/nokia_n810_package_contents-20071123-141936.jpg |
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| 13:02.07 | *** join/#maemo krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:03.32 | *** join/#maemo vcgomes (n=Vinicius@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:04.04 | jeddy3 | GeneralAntilles, btw, you have any tips on how to clean the screen before applying, does the boxwave include cleaningtools? |
| 13:04.23 | aquatix | jeddy3: yes |
| 13:04.30 | aquatix | it even comes with tips |
| 13:04.33 | GeneralAntilles | Their included lint-free wipe and a little water works just fine. |
| 13:04.41 | aquatix | indeed |
| 13:04.49 | GeneralAntilles | Heck, you don't even really need the water. |
| 13:04.49 | aquatix | and apply it in a room with almost no dust |
| 13:05.04 | aquatix | they recommend doing it in your shower room after showering :) |
| 13:05.09 | GeneralAntilles | jeddy3, I posted a full tutorial on how to apply the boxwave protector on ITT somewhere. |
| 13:05.15 | Robot101 | heh |
| 13:05.20 | GeneralAntilles | All my little tips are included with it. |
| 13:05.30 | jeddy3 | GeneralAntilles, ah nice :D |
| 13:05.31 | aquatix | GeneralAntilles: ITT? |
| 13:05.36 | GeneralAntilles | internettablettalk.com |
| 13:05.38 | jeddy3 | internettablettalk |
| 13:05.40 | jeddy3 | :) |
| 13:05.41 | aquatix | ah yes :) |
| 13:05.45 | aquatix | duh ;) |
| 13:05.49 | Navi | I carry a microfiber wipe, takes away all teh dust and oil |
| 13:05.59 | Robot101 | the "shipping protector" scratches and marks incredibly easily, it can make the device practically unusable versus just taking it off and keeping your device in its cover :P |
| 13:07.04 | GeneralAntilles | Robot101, did you use it for 6 months? :P |
| 13:07.05 | Jaffa | Although I ensure there's never any sharp object which could touch the screen |
| 13:07.11 | GeneralAntilles | It gets gross, but it wont impact usability. |
| 13:07.29 | *** join/#maemo kaie (n=kaie@s15277822.onlinehome-server.info) |
| 13:08.09 | Robot101 | GeneralAntilles: I saw someone who didn't realise it was there, and was showing me like "omg my screen is fucked" and it was scratched and illegible, then we realised and took it off... |
| 13:08.22 | Robot101 | Jaffa: right, I have a key <-> device pocket exclusion principle :) |
| 13:08.35 | Jaffa | :) |
| 13:08.52 | GeneralAntilles | Meh, mine was definitely scratched, but it didn't impact legibility while the backlight was on. |
| 13:09.10 | aquatix | Robot101: me too |
| 13:09.23 | GeneralAntilles | Only stupid or rich people don't. |
| 13:09.28 | aquatix | the combination is a surefire way to get your device fscked |
| 13:09.43 | aquatix | problem is, i'm short on pockets ;) |
| 13:10.00 | aquatix | as i don't want to put things with my phone in one pocket too |
| 13:10.07 | aquatix | thankfully the n810 has a case |
| 13:10.13 | Navi | Can maemo mapper plot routes without an internet connection |
| 13:10.43 | Robot101 | Navi: no it's just a UI for google maps |
| 13:10.59 | Navi | aw :| |
| 13:11.02 | GeneralAntilles | Navi, you can save routes ahead of time, though. |
| 13:14.39 | aquatix | GeneralAntilles: hm, can't seem to find your article on screen protectors at ITT |
| 13:15.01 | GeneralAntilles | Somebody should stick it on the wiki for me. |
| 13:15.48 | GeneralAntilles | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=117031&postcount=18 |
| 13:15.59 | aquatix | ah, google search helps |
| 13:16.05 | *** join/#maemo red-zack (n=mk@p5B045ACA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:17.11 | Navi | I was planning on trying to apply it after a hot shower |
| 13:17.18 | Navi | :3 |
| 13:18.17 | aquatix | :) |
| 13:18.17 | Zic | to have a full hildon desktop on a poor hardware, xserver-xorg and hildon-desktop, a meta package of Ubuntu (+ some scripts of running) is sufficient ? |
| 13:18.45 | *** join/#maemo cmarcelo (n=cmarcelo@200.184.118.132) |
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| 13:21.47 | Navi | I've never been able to pull off screen protectors |
| 13:21.50 | Navi | I get scared :o |
| 13:22.15 | aquatix | heheh |
| 13:22.22 | *** join/#maemo geaaru (n=geaaru@host93-201-dynamic.30-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 13:22.37 | aquatix | Navi: those boxwave protectors don't use glue |
| 13:23.35 | Navi | I've read. |
| 13:23.59 | GeneralAntilles | I've swapped mine to different units a couple times. |
| 13:24.13 | Navi | I'm afraid I'd pull to hard or something :P |
| 13:24.27 | GeneralAntilles | You'll end up removing and reapplying a lot in the process of getting it on dust-free. |
| 13:24.38 | GeneralAntilles | Really, there's more danger in applying it than removing it. |
| 13:24.46 | GeneralAntilles | You can stick the touch-layer to the LCD |
| 13:25.03 | Navi | <_< |
| 13:26.01 | hrw | Brando protectors are easy to put/pull |
| 13:26.11 | hrw | atleast normal ones |
| 13:38.56 | *** join/#maemo fsmw (n=Fernando@200.113.154.144) |
| 13:45.07 | ynezz | Does anybody use package manager in OS2008? It can't install anything bigger than 500kB. Everything bigger fails with 'Download failed' error. |
| 13:45.37 | *** join/#maemo Navi_ (n=not_root@ppp-70-244-170-192.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 13:46.00 | *** join/#maemo Ivan_Chelubeev (n=ijon@ppp85-141-80-8.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) |
| 13:46.47 | ynezz | Ah there's a log, 'MD5SUM failed', cool. Crap wifi. |
| 13:46.59 | Khertan | Maybe someone can explain me how to use Hildon.TimeEditor ... there is now signal to connect when value is change by user |
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| 14:03.46 | ynezz | moving near access point fixed the problem, oh dear |
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| 14:19.27 | Khertan | grrr |
| 14:22.24 | melmoth | graouarr too |
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| 14:24.02 | jeddy3 | damn, this is a sweet thing http://www.boxwave.com/products/batteryadapter/index.htm |
| 14:24.26 | zedstar | so there really a bug to cause delays in getting a gps fix? |
| 14:24.57 | tontsa | n810 internal gps? |
| 14:25.07 | zedstar | yeh n810 internal |
| 14:25.16 | tontsa | i think it's more like feature than anything |
| 14:25.39 | tontsa | the chip inside just can't do better.. but once you have fix it keeps it very well |
| 14:25.55 | zedstar | i see....im not used to such a unsensitive receiver |
| 14:26.02 | zedstar | just got n810 today and no fix |
| 14:26.15 | tontsa | yeah i was shocked too comparing it to my bt-gps dongles |
| 14:26.15 | melmoth | can take up to half an hour here |
| 14:26.32 | tontsa | takes about 5 minutes if there's perfect visibility |
| 14:26.47 | tontsa | not really useful though if you are in hurry and want to find where you are |
| 14:26.49 | zedstar | btw in software update it lists update to Map application but this install fails? |
| 14:27.11 | tontsa | you need to uninstall your map or update to the final os2008 |
| 14:27.20 | tontsa | then you can install the update |
| 14:28.08 | zedstar | ah ok great thanks..... im running 2.2007.50-2 is that latest? |
| 14:28.28 | GeneralAntilles | No, but 51-3 is only a bootloader change. |
| 14:28.29 | tontsa | there that should be fixed.. atleast was for me |
| 14:28.43 | GeneralAntilles | You can force it with red pill if you want. |
| 14:28.43 | tontsa | but you can uninstall the map and then get it again |
| 14:28.49 | GeneralAntilles | I'd just uninstall and reinstall, though. |
| 14:29.03 | aquatix | what was changed in the bootloader? |
| 14:29.19 | tontsa | aquatix, some units didn't wanna power on after a while |
| 14:29.21 | zedstar | ok so just upgrades to bootloader i can live without |
| 14:29.24 | aquatix | ah |
| 14:29.42 | GeneralAntilles | Unless you're having issues with powering on, there's no reason to update the bootloader. |
| 14:29.44 | aquatix | was wondering about it too :) |
| 14:29.47 | aquatix | kk |
| 14:29.58 | aquatix | getting root now on the thing |
| 14:30.01 | GeneralAntilles | It's just OMAP timing changes to fix the race issue. |
| 14:30.04 | tontsa | i was hoping the new version fixed some bluetooth issues |
| 14:30.09 | tontsa | but i guess need to wait bit longer |
| 14:30.16 | zedstar | not seen red pill?...im used to flashing new updates |
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| 14:30.25 | lcdd | zedstar: try not to move while the gps is getting a fix. from my limited experience it seems to make all the difference |
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| 14:31.21 | zedstar | it is a cloudy today here which doesnt help either :) |
| 14:32.54 | zedstar | ok cool that got rid of that map update problem thanks |
| 14:33.31 | tontsa | if it wants to update bluez-utils, don't even try :) |
| 14:33.52 | zedstar | ok yeh i dont wanna break anything on first day yet lol |
| 14:35.55 | zedstar | so what is red pill mode? something to force application installs? |
| 14:36.20 | tontsa | developer mode |
| 14:36.30 | tontsa | you get to see lots of dev packages in the app manager |
| 14:36.41 | zedstar | ah ok i want that then |
| 14:37.11 | aquatix | zedstar: maybe of interest too - http://devnoob.blogspot.com/2008/01/root-access-on-nokia-n810.html |
| 14:37.23 | GeneralAntilles | Well, sorta, it shows packages outside of User, anyway. |
| 14:37.45 | GeneralAntilles | Urgh |
| 14:37.51 | GeneralAntilles | That website kills my eyes. |
| 14:38.12 | tontsa | it reminds me of mda monitors |
| 14:38.25 | GeneralAntilles | easyroot is the best way to get root. |
| 14:38.29 | zedstar | ah ok done it i notice a couple of extra things in software update |
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| 14:39.06 | tontsa | also you should subscribe to some extra repos, good way to get them is surf with the n810 to http://www.gronmayer.com/it |
| 14:39.19 | zedstar | the Operating System update is that just bootloader upgrades? |
| 14:39.23 | zedstar | thanks tontsa |
| 14:39.32 | GeneralAntilles | No. |
| 14:39.39 | GeneralAntilles | It's a meta package for other stuff. |
| 14:39.44 | GeneralAntilles | Don't worry about it and don't install it. |
| 14:39.49 | zedstar | ok |
| 14:40.18 | zedstar | root i got easily already by just installing openssh and ssh root@localhost |
| 14:40.30 | Navi | lol |
| 14:40.34 | GeneralAntilles | Easy root is easier. ;) |
| 14:40.35 | aquatix | ah, that's possible too :) |
| 14:40.36 | GeneralAntilles | "root" |
| 14:40.38 | hrw | zedstar: http://blog.haerwu.biz/2008/02/22/resolving-power-on-drama/ has instructions how to install only bootloader |
| 14:40.56 | tontsa | i'm still doing sudo gainroot cause i was lazy to reinstall openssh |
| 14:40.59 | GeneralAntilles | zedstar, there's no point in installing the bootloader if you don't have the poweron issue. |
| 14:41.07 | tontsa | the one version early os2008 didn't ask for root password |
| 14:41.24 | zedstar | thanks hrw |
| 14:41.35 | aquatix | hm, i have that problem now and then i think |
| 14:41.36 | zedstar | yeh not gonna update bootloader i dont like touching those |
| 14:41.40 | aquatix | that power on thing |
| 14:45.53 | Khertan | tontsa > more a test mode :) |
| 14:45.55 | zedstar | those 2 buttons embedded to the side of the screen on the left....they seem a bit sticky...anyone else like that? |
| 14:46.01 | Khertan | oups ... |
| 14:46.14 | aquatix | zedstar: a bit, yeah |
| 14:46.46 | aquatix | hrw: that bin, can i download that from nokia? |
| 14:47.02 | aquatix | or is that the complete flash? |
| 14:47.32 | hrw | its in flash image |
| 14:48.00 | hrw | aquatix: grab image, unpack (using flasher), flash needed parts |
| 14:48.18 | *** join/#maemo mazzen (n=mortel@vpn-ce242006.extern.uni-duisburg-essen.de) |
| 14:48.21 | aquatix | first comment says ``Actually you don’t need to unpack the image, you can also use flasher –fiasco RX-44_2008SE_2.2007.51-3_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin –flash-only=nolo –flash'' |
| 14:48.27 | aquatix | so that's nice |
| 14:48.33 | hrw | ah right |
| 14:48.56 | zedstar | thanks for info...gonna go see if i can crank up the gps outside for a fix |
| 14:49.29 | *** part/#maemo jegp (n=jegp@main.netvision.com.py) |
| 14:51.51 | Khertan | Maybe someone can explain me how to use Hildon.TimeEditor ... there is now signal to connect when value is change by user |
| 14:51.53 | Khertan | ? |
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| 15:16.02 | Khertan | Maybe someone can explain me how to use Hildon.TimeEditor ... there is now signal to connect when value is change by user ? |
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| 15:21.22 | felipec | Khertan.question.timeout = 1H |
| 15:22.08 | felipec | Khertan: I think that would be a sensible time to wait for people in other timezones to log-in and see your question :) |
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| 15:42.45 | Khertan | felipec > yes ... and my answer is about question.answer.timeout = 2 :) |
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| 16:04.21 | greedo | hi |
| 16:04.36 | greedo | are there problems with the repos right now ? |
| 16:05.01 | greedo | Couldn't stat source package list http://repository.maemo.org chinook/free Packages |
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| 16:38.45 | Screaming | morning #maemo |
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| 16:39.55 | Screaming | Anyone else noticed that the screen rotation hack kill |
| 16:40.57 | Screaming | the nokia media server? |
| 16:41.19 | wwp | what screen rotation hack? |
| 16:41.20 | *** part/#maemo jegp (n=jegp@main.netvision.com.py) |
| 16:42.37 | Screaming | ...and that the vkbis viirtually unusable. |
| 16:42.38 | wwp | oh enlightenment + xrandr commands |
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| 16:43.17 | Screaming | wwp: xatly. |
| 16:43.31 | wwp | just saw a video about that |
| 16:43.51 | Screaming | wwp: except under maemo |
| 16:43.54 | wwp | nice but if requires apps to support rotation (and the vertical layout) |
| 16:44.00 | wwp | yeah |
| 16:44.41 | GeneralAntilles | It's a hack, what did you expect, Screaming? :P |
| 16:45.21 | Screaming | wwp: Yep, but the media server one is interesting |
| 16:46.46 | *** join/#maemo jprieur_ (n=jprieur@hoasb-ff03dd00-31.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 16:46.50 | Screaming | wwp: It says the files are corrupt with the rotation enabled kernel but not with the nokia one. |
| 16:47.43 | Screaming | While mplayer accepts it either way. |
| 16:49.12 | Screaming | TeeHee! Someone in Nokia is making VERY silly assumptions. |
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| 16:57.23 | Screaming | The only kernel modification is to add a field on an internal struct to recall which way round it is and to send the right things to the LCD chip AFAICT. Media-server is simply being crazy, saying "wibble-wibble" for no reason cos it goes wrong even when NOT rotated. |
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| 17:00.54 | SDuensin | Good morning. |
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| 17:02.30 | Screaming | The vkb problem is probably fixable, it simply needs a rotated .vkb file. Media-server is more irrational. Maybe a nokian can find some reason, I assume media-server is closed isn't it? |
| 17:05.35 | Screaming | No nokians around then? |
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| 17:06.20 | elb | patience is a virtue |
| 17:06.32 | elb | but I doubt any nokians are going to show up and be like, "oh yes let's fix our app for this total hack" |
| 17:07.50 | Screaming | I guess, but often testing things at their lmits shows up incipient problems. |
| 17:08.02 | Screaming | s/lm/lim |
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| 17:10.24 | Screaming | elb: Damn nice hack! Reading 24 lines of irc instead of 5 |
| 17:11.15 | Robot101 | elb: hack? :) |
| 17:12.03 | Screaming | gtg I'll watch the log see if anyone picks up on the prodding. |
| 17:12.28 | elb | Robot101: it all depends on perspective :-) |
| 17:12.43 | elb | Robot101: if it requires a modified kernel etc., to Nokia it's going to be a hack |
| 17:12.43 | Robot101 | what is the hack? |
| 17:12.55 | elb | Robot101: oh, xrandr support |
| 17:13.14 | Navi | zomghacx |
| 17:13.57 | aquatix | :) |
| 17:14.37 | *** join/#maemo doc|work (n=doc@gentoo/contributor/doc-007) |
| 17:14.50 | Navi | gah |
| 17:14.55 | doc|work | has anyone managed to find n800 styluses in North america for a reasonable price? |
| 17:15.06 | Navi | the N800 keeps thinkin' my thumb is a stylus :P |
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| 17:16.20 | doc|work | nah, you really do need a stylus, and having one not eaten by a dog is usually the best option :o |
| 17:16.29 | doc|work | s/not/ |
| 17:16.40 | doc|work | er, ignore that s/ |
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| 17:17.39 | Navi | heh |
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| 17:24.05 | doc|work | argh, why the fuck do they make it so hard to get replacement styluses |
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| 17:29.15 | Navi | doc|work, because, they're lazy! |
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| 17:29.51 | Navi | if I had the equipment, I'd totally make a mold for the stylus and start selling metal styluses |
| 17:31.22 | Navi | charge 200% mark up too, for labor |
| 17:31.29 | Navi | "labor" |
| 17:31.59 | doc|work | hehe |
| 17:32.32 | doc|work | seriously though, if they sold them for 5 dollars each + delivery they'd still make money |
| 17:33.21 | Navi | It's just cheap plastic with a stainless steel head, not costly to make |
| 17:33.31 | Navi | from a mold, anyways |
| 17:34.03 | Navi | 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 |
| 17:34.06 | Navi | oops |
| 17:34.25 | elb | heh the n810 stylus is just cheap plastic |
| 17:34.27 | elb | no stainless ;-) |
| 17:34.59 | Navi | :D |
| 17:35.25 | Zero_Dogg | I like that the n810 came with one extra stylus though |
| 17:35.34 | Navi | The N800 does as well |
| 17:35.47 | Zero_Dogg | ooh :) |
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| 17:37.27 | elb | so does the Nintendo DS! |
| 17:38.01 | elb | I think my Palm IIIx did, too, although the stylus that came *in* it had an aluminum barrel, and the spare was all plastic |
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| 17:40.42 | Navi | heh |
| 17:41.18 | Navi | 0000000000000000 |
| 17:41.22 | Navi | oops :| |
| 17:41.24 | doc|work | Navi: aye, very cheap, but still non-existent, not even on ebay :/ |
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| 17:44.12 | Navi | ha |
| 17:44.18 | Navi | camera app froze my N800 |
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| 17:49.03 | zedstar | u shud see the style that came with the Neo 1973 (OpenMoko) that was a pen, stylus, torch, laser all in one....that is just showing off :) |
| 17:49.13 | zedstar | stylus even |
| 17:49.13 | Navi | heh |
| 17:49.14 | doc|work | bah, one place I can find them has 1 in stock, at 10 euro with an 8 euro delivery charge to somewhere in euro land and then I have to have it shipped from there :( |
| 17:49.25 | doc|work | zedstar: yeah, and you can buy those for a couple of euro |
| 17:49.45 | zedstar | yeh annoying as it is a matter of time u use the pen on your screen :) |
| 17:49.59 | doc|work | :( |
| 17:51.23 | *** part/#maemo leandroal (n=leandroa@150.165.63.86) |
| 17:52.40 | doc|work | hehe, shopping basket in dutch is "winkelwagen" |
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| 18:12.33 | Stskeeps | anyone interested in a .deb of python stackless 2.5.1? |
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| 18:16.42 | felipec | Stskeeps: what's that? |
| 18:17.12 | Stskeeps | felipec: www.stackless.com |
| 18:17.39 | Stskeeps | managed to port it with some parts of the port for Nintendo DS and parts of pymaemo :P |
| 18:18.12 | Stskeeps | it is used in civilization 4 and EVE Online, for instance |
| 18:18.26 | jku | Stskeeps, did you end up using sb2? |
| 18:18.27 | Stskeeps | seems to work as a drop-in replacement for python without issues |
| 18:18.35 | Stskeeps | jku: for a while until it gave same error |
| 18:18.40 | jku | :) |
| 18:19.10 | *** join/#maemo seraph1 (n=ecrespo@200.47.151.107) |
| 18:19.22 | Stskeeps | but figured out PYTHONPATH shouldn't be exported while compiling python, and i would have to hot-switch and do some of the packaging manually between CHINOOK-X86 and ARMEL :P |
| 18:19.36 | Stskeeps | cos dh_builddeb failed |
| 18:19.59 | jku | right |
| 18:20.28 | jku | you can do that with some scratchbox magic too, no doubt |
| 18:20.34 | Stskeeps | probably :P |
| 18:20.35 | jku | without switching target |
| 18:21.43 | Stskeeps | am just bloody glad i got it to work now :P some of the researchers at my hallway at uni are quite interested in the possibility of pickling tasklets, and use the n800s as platform for migrating code :P |
| 18:28.31 | *** join/#maemo mazzen (n=mortel@vpn-ce242007.extern.uni-duisburg-essen.de) |
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| 19:12.42 | ddavies | Hi! What's the least disruptive way to get ogg files to play on a 770? |
| 19:12.55 | GeneralAntilles | Convert them to mp3. :P |
| 19:13.44 | ddavies | GeneralAntilles: I would like to stream the music from another PC. Do you know of sw to do the conversion and also stream? |
| 19:14.18 | GeneralAntilles | For Linux? |
| 19:14.28 | ddavies | Yes |
| 19:14.46 | *** join/#maemo konttori (n=konttori@a88-114-91-19.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 19:14.46 | ddavies | My stuff was ripped using Rhythmbox |
| 19:14.57 | GeneralAntilles | Not a clue. |
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| 19:15.19 | ddavies | Ok, is it hard to get ogg support onto a 770? |
| 19:15.46 | GeneralAntilles | Haven't a clue. |
| 19:16.31 | ddavies | NP GeneralAntilles. Has anyone else here tried that? |
| 19:16.53 | lcdd | i'm using ampache to stream music |
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| 19:17.26 | solmumaha | ddavies: mediatomb |
| 19:18.07 | solmumaha | svn version has transcoding |
| 19:18.13 | kulve | ddavies: have you seens this: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/mogg/ |
| 19:18.15 | kulve | -s |
| 19:19.32 | ddavies | Thanks! Checking out ampache, mediatomb and mogg now... |
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| 19:34.56 | ddavies | Thanks for the info. Bye! |
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| 19:44.04 | lcuk | how do i turn the time figure in dmesg into a proper time? ie what relation to now does it have |
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| 19:58.07 | kulve | it's seconds from the boot? |
| 20:01.00 | mgedmin | yes |
| 20:01.09 | mgedmin | only it doesn't count seconds while suspended (on my laptop) |
| 20:01.16 | mgedmin | iow uptime |
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| 20:03.36 | lcuk | i think it might be :) im walking backwards now |
| 20:03.42 | lcuk | thanks |
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| 20:07.07 | konttori | Discount n810s!!! http://curry.podshow.com/?page_id=846 |
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| 20:07.45 | konttori | it's suprisingly big discount. 15% |
| 20:07.52 | konttori | quite a lot I would say |
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| 20:08.31 | konttori | 60 dollars or so. |
| 20:08.43 | doc|work | till too expensive for me |
| 20:08.46 | doc|work | *still |
| 20:08.57 | konttori | less than 400. |
| 20:09.13 | konttori | ah.. sorry just about 400 |
| 20:13.00 | doc|work | my next toys are potentially this: openmoko freerunner, eeePC (or similar) with 9/10inch screen and suitable resolution |
| 20:14.16 | lcuk | touch is the winner for me, gimma upgraded eee |
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| 20:15.40 | doc|work | lcuk: touchscreen 9/10inch would be nice, with keyboard :) |
| 20:16.19 | lcuk | well thats on the wishlist for the next one and its certainly not outside the realms |
| 20:16.43 | doc|work | it is? nice |
| 20:17.21 | lcuk | http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/news.phtml/12330/13354/asus-prepping-9-inch-touchscreen-eee.phtml |
| 20:17.38 | konttori | sounds really interesting |
| 20:17.40 | Navi | OpenMoko's too expensive for my blood. |
| 20:17.54 | konttori | openmoko isn't interesting product at all |
| 20:17.55 | Navi | plus it lacks buttons |
| 20:18.04 | Navi | and it has extremely ugly buttons |
| 20:18.05 | konttori | why buy a poor phone for linux development |
| 20:18.18 | Navi | s/buttons/casing/ |
| 20:18.22 | konttori | eee pc with touchscreen otoh sounds very tempting |
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| 20:19.05 | doc|work | the phone itself isn't attractive, but if you want open, it's the way to go. There's nothing comparable for phones either. The n800 is far from a phone |
| 20:19.23 | Navi | What about the android phones coming up. |
| 20:19.41 | doc|work | that's not open |
| 20:19.44 | doc|work | not even close |
| 20:20.22 | doc|work | they've even said that if the networks want to lock them down, they can |
| 20:20.33 | Navi | Android's Linux-based, though. |
| 20:21.10 | sxpert | Navi, more like java based |
| 20:21.17 | jku | "java" |
| 20:21.20 | doc|work | aye |
| 20:22.02 | doc|work | openmoko >>> android, hopefully the freerunner 2 or whatever is a far more attractive phone, but I can take ugly over practically useless |
| 20:22.26 | Navi | I take buttons over no buttons. |
| 20:22.46 | jku | openmoko has a long way to go |
| 20:22.48 | doc|work | I can live without buttons |
| 20:22.48 | Navi | Everyone should own a Windows Mobile phone |
| 20:22.56 | Navi | Fuck OpenMoko. |
| 20:22.57 | doc|work | Navi: eh no thanks |
| 20:23.12 | doc|work | jku: it does, but it's nice all the same |
| 20:23.29 | jku | sure is, and I do hope they succeed |
| 20:23.32 | konttori | yeah. android will be very closed phone |
| 20:23.56 | lcuk | has anyone seen my stylus? |
| 20:24.00 | Navi | no |
| 20:24.04 | jku | sorry |
| 20:24.09 | doc|work | lcuk: my dog probably ate that one too :( |
| 20:24.18 | lcuk | damn! how much do nokia charge for their bespoke ones? |
| 20:24.20 | lcuk | lol doc |
| 20:24.25 | Navi | tuxphone > openmoko |
| 20:24.37 | doc|work | lcuk: if you find out, tell me. I can't find anywhere they sell them :/ |
| 20:24.50 | lcuk | just looking now |
| 20:24.50 | doc|work | Navi: tuxphone? |
| 20:25.41 | doc|work | bwahaha, you think openmoko sucks but like the tuxphone? what sort of crack are you smoking? :) |
| 20:26.05 | Navi | doc|work, Better crack than you, apparently. |
| 20:26.30 | GeneralAntilles | My crack is the best crack! |
| 20:26.33 | doc|work | you realise that openmoko started out with the same intentions as tuxphone, right? |
| 20:26.43 | jku | so, what's the problem with openmoko, Navi? |
| 20:26.53 | jku | apart from not working yet :) |
| 20:27.05 | GeneralAntilles | Wonder troll powers, activate! |
| 20:27.11 | doc|work | GeneralAntilles: hah |
| 20:27.42 | doc|work | http://www.opencellphone.org/images/c/c6/Colin.jpg my father had a smaller mobile phone in 1995 |
| 20:27.48 | Navi | jku, openmoko is an expensive turd. |
| 20:27.59 | GeneralAntilles | Like Bono? |
| 20:28.05 | Navi | Yes |
| 20:28.13 | elb | haha |
| 20:28.48 | doc|work | Navi: it's cheaper than the iphone and has potential for much more functionality |
| 20:28.54 | jku | Navi, that's pretty detailed, but could go even more in details? |
| 20:29.12 | doc|work | admittedly, it's ugly, but again, I'll take ugly over locked down |
| 20:29.23 | Navi | jku, it's too open. Everyone needs to use proprietary devices. |
| 20:29.30 | jku | ah, ok |
| 20:29.31 | Navi | jku, plus, it's ugly. |
| 20:29.38 | doc|work | too open? :D |
| 20:29.42 | *** part/#maemo Zero_Dogg (n=zerodogg@mandriva/developer/Zero-Dogg) |
| 20:29.45 | lcuk | GeneralAntilles, n810 stylus replacement - you seem to know everything, where can i get one |
| 20:29.51 | Navi | doc|work, use windows mobile, you'll thank yourself in six months |
| 20:29.59 | doc|work | Navi: heh, sure |
| 20:29.59 | GeneralAntilles | Nowhere. |
| 20:30.00 | GeneralAntilles | Go away. |
| 20:30.00 | jku | openmoko is not hardware, but I guess a software stack can be ugly too |
| 20:30.21 | lcuk | :( |
| 20:30.22 | Navi | jku, openmoko includes it's ugly interface |
| 20:30.22 | doc|work | jku: meh, their whole marketing thing sucks, openmoko.com is about the phone :/ |
| 20:30.36 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk, ebay? |
| 20:30.37 | lcuk | are the styluses the same for all models of n8x0 /770? |
| 20:30.42 | jaska_ | yes, software stack can be ugly, look at symbian :) |
| 20:30.44 | jku | well ,that's true |
| 20:30.50 | GeneralAntilles | Either that, or run the stylus cart around here a bit. :P |
| 20:30.58 | GeneralAntilles | "Bring out your styluses!" |
| 20:31.00 | GeneralAntilles | "Bring out your styluses!" |
| 20:31.04 | doc|work | lcuk: I was told the n770 is different |
| 20:31.05 | Navi | jku, plus, Linux is extremely ugly, no matter how you look at it. |
| 20:31.05 | elb | <clang> |
| 20:31.21 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk, no. |
| 20:31.30 | GeneralAntilles | The 770's are black and thin. |
| 20:31.33 | doc|work | Navi: heh, says a windows mobile person? |
| 20:31.35 | GeneralAntilles | The N800's are black and fat. |
| 20:31.40 | GeneralAntilles | and the N810's are gray and thin. |
| 20:31.46 | Navi | doc|work, windows mobile is superior to openmoko |
| 20:31.57 | doc|work | Navi: of course, open moko's not finished |
| 20:32.19 | Navi | doc|work, openmoko can never surpass windows mobile. |
| 20:32.23 | doc|work | Navi: so what you're trying to do is compare something that's not finished against something which is? |
| 20:32.37 | GeneralAntilles | doc|work, IT'S A TRAP! |
| 20:32.38 | doc|work | Navi: sure, just like linux can never surpass windows... |
| 20:32.45 | jku | Navi, that's not difficult. current GTA01 battery time is like 5 hours |
| 20:32.45 | Navi | The Linux kernel is flawed |
| 20:32.53 | jku | without calls |
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| 20:33.14 | doc|work | jku: yep, hardware bug, but that's looking like 2 days+ right now |
| 20:33.20 | doc|work | hard to tell yet |
| 20:33.21 | jku | yeah? |
| 20:33.30 | jku | in current images? |
| 20:33.31 | doc|work | yep |
| 20:33.32 | lcuk | GeneralAntilles, you should remove the filter. your porn will show up then |
| 20:33.45 | doc|work | jku: not on the gta01 because the hardware bug will still be there afaik |
| 20:33.47 | GeneralAntilles | "maemo stylus comparison" should give me a picture of all three styluses side-by-side. :< |
| 20:33.52 | jku | oh right |
| 20:33.57 | doc|work | jku: but on the gta02 (freerunner0 |
| 20:34.01 | doc|work | *freerunner) |
| 20:34.22 | doc|work | GeneralAntilles: if we get to make wishes can we wish nokia would sell the fuckers? :( |
| 20:34.51 | jaska_ | erm, the 810 came with two styluses afaik, lost both?:| |
| 20:34.52 | GeneralAntilles | If wishes were fishes . . . we'd all have really well-stocked aquariums. |
| 20:35.15 | doc|work | jaska_: for me, the dog chewed one and I seem to have misplaced the other :/ |
| 20:35.22 | jaska_ | oh :/ |
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| 20:35.57 | doc|work | sell me one! :) |
| 20:36.08 | Navi | I'll sell you one for thirty bucks |
| 20:36.16 | GeneralAntilles | Go away. |
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| 20:36.35 | doc|work | thanks, I can get it from europe for less including delivery |
| 20:36.55 | Navi | That's too bad, then. |
| 20:36.57 | GeneralAntilles | All of you scatterbrained folk should get a petition together to send to Nokia. :P |
| 20:37.16 | Navi | GeneralAntilles, send it to Samsung, they'll respond quicker. |
| 20:37.17 | jaska_ | with one of those 80s style whistling keychain |
| 20:37.48 | GeneralAntilles | Everybody has to pitch in a wiener whistle! |
| 20:37.53 | GeneralAntilles | That'll convince them. |
| 20:43.42 | lcuk | oooh i just contacted nokia:Thank you |
| 20:43.42 | lcuk | Your question has been sent. A customer service agent will respond as soon as possible. |
| 20:44.29 | lcuk | what do you think nokia does with all the pap they get sent through the email, its not even like they can recycle the electrons |
| 20:45.41 | doc|work | lcuk: spamassassin with specific filters for "from customer" |
| 20:45.47 | doc|work | > /dev/null |
| 20:46.19 | lcuk | sounds reasonable, i actually hope they do respond, has anyone actually tried it (apart from me) |
| 20:46.26 | jku | lcuk, it's AC/DC it automatically reccycles |
| 20:46.44 | jku | same electrons going back and forth |
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| 20:48.40 | doc|work | lcuk: if you get a response that says "no enough interest" let me know and I'll email them too |
| 20:49.46 | lcuk | okies |
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| 21:01.21 | jeff1f | Wee, here's some free 3gp tv thanks to sprint: humpa.com/tv |
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| 21:17.56 | konttori | https://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/usbcontrol/ |
| 21:20.06 | jaska_ | huh, asks for login/pass |
| 21:20.38 | sp3000 | s/https/http/ |
| 21:20.45 | doc|work | usb control? |
| 21:20.55 | jaska_ | yeah, tried that.. worked |
| 21:21.26 | jaska_ | need to loot a gender-changer somewhere tho |
| 21:22.37 | sp3000 | This application is also available for: OS2008 |
| 21:22.52 | doc|work | hmmm, how does that work, can you get mini-usb to normal usb size adaptors? |
| 21:22.58 | *** join/#maemo atlas95 (n=atlas@mlv95-3-88-168-37-51.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 21:23.07 | GeneralAntilles | konttori, there's a statusbar applet that'll switch for you floating around somewhere. |
| 21:23.21 | jaska_ | lcuk: ahhah.. i probably have some of those floating around... didnt think of it :( |
| 21:23.34 | konttori | GA for usb host mode you mean? |
| 21:23.39 | konttori | the one kate made? |
| 21:23.50 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah. |
| 21:23.58 | lcuk | doc|work, if you use your nokia USB cable into a gender changer then into your keyboard it can be coerced into working |
| 21:24.01 | konttori | doc: you just buy one usb F-F adaptor |
| 21:24.13 | doc|work | ah, ok |
| 21:24.14 | Navi | or make one |
| 21:24.33 | konttori | f-f costs less than a euro. |
| 21:24.42 | konttori | so it's not worth to make one |
| 21:24.50 | lcuk | but if the shops are closed (as they were when i needed one)... |
| 21:24.52 | jaska_ | i wonder what other usb ethernet thingies are supported other than rtl8150 |
| 21:24.54 | Navi | But if you're too lazy to go out,.. |
| 21:24.59 | Navi | s/,/./ |
| 21:25.01 | doc|work | bwahaha |
| 21:25.14 | konttori | GA: status bar applets are not nice as there is so little space for those on the device. |
| 21:25.33 | konttori | application is thus better than a applet that's hard to enable / disable |
| 21:25.35 | konttori | IMHO |
| 21:25.37 | GeneralAntilles | My taskbar space is smaller than my statusbar space. :P |
| 21:25.37 | lcuk | its ugly what it does if you have too many |
| 21:25.48 | lcuk | adjusted theme? |
| 21:25.58 | konttori | GA. but you cn close usbcontrol aftter you have made the switch |
| 21:26.03 | GeneralAntilles | Be nice if the drop-down button for the statusbar overflow didn't steal a slow. |
| 21:26.04 | konttori | you don't have to keep it open |
| 21:26.14 | Navi | or you could just have a taskbar toggle |
| 21:26.15 | GeneralAntilles | s/slow/slot/ |
| 21:26.21 | jaska_ | hmmh, guess i'll have to rip out the scrollbar from osso-xterm, doesnt seem to listen to the gconf setting... and didnt notice anything really out of hand in the src (albeit ive never used gtk before) |
| 21:26.25 | Navi | press the icon to toggle it, that's all you need. |
| 21:26.47 | jott | just make a volume-brightness-usb-rotation-wireless-battery-clock all-in-one applet :) |
| 21:26.55 | GeneralAntilles | Woo |
| 21:27.09 | GeneralAntilles | We'll be down to one applet in no time! |
| 21:27.17 | Navi | Sweet. |
| 21:27.29 | jaska_ | bloatlet |
| 21:27.41 | GeneralAntilles | ~100KB of meat, 6MB of icons. |
| 21:27.45 | doc|work | rotation? |
| 21:27.47 | GeneralAntilles | Plus the LCARS theme! |
| 21:27.51 | GeneralAntilles | So, 12MB of icons. |
| 21:27.59 | jott | hehe GeneralAntilles ever heared of compositing :P |
| 21:28.03 | jaska_ | dwim-button |
| 21:28.11 | GeneralAntilles | doc|work, http://sse2.net/rotate/ |
| 21:28.27 | GeneralAntilles | Massive icon sets are more exciting. :P |
| 21:28.35 | lcuk | GeneralAntilles, which nokia did you quickdraw that link from? |
| 21:28.37 | *** join/#maemo dmz (n=dmz@64.253.5.180.dyn-cm-pool75.pool.hargray.net) |
| 21:28.49 | GeneralAntilles | What, lcuk? |
| 21:28.57 | doc|work | doc|home: ^ |
| 21:29.17 | lcuk | quickfire linkage |
| 21:30.28 | GeneralAntilles | The rotation link? |
| 21:30.45 | dmz | hey y'all, is there any just plain ol' sip clients that have been built for maemo |
| 21:30.58 | GeneralAntilles | It comes with one built in, dmz. |
| 21:31.25 | GeneralAntilles | Assuming the rotation link, lcuk, Quicksilver's searchable browser history. |
| 21:31.38 | doc|work | dmz: rtcomm works and embeds itself into the OS |
| 21:31.38 | dmz | which one? |
| 21:32.05 | dmz | hmm (btw i'm on a 770 using hacked os2008 install) |
| 21:32.11 | doc|work | o.O |
| 21:32.32 | dmz | do i have to run from xterm or am i just missing it in the menus |
| 21:33.07 | GeneralAntilles | The Presence applet, dmz. |
| 21:33.35 | GeneralAntilles | <PROTECTED> |
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| 21:34.17 | dmz | hmm the presence applet i see was for google talk / jabber, didn't see any sip settings |
| 21:34.52 | GeneralAntilles | Account . . . New Service: SIP |
| 21:35.22 | jku | GeneralAntilles, that only works after installing rtcomm, right? |
| 21:35.30 | GeneralAntilles | rtcomm is bundled with OS2008. |
| 21:35.31 | jku | dmz: http://rtcomm.garage.maemo.org/ |
| 21:35.36 | jku | oh? |
| 21:35.41 | GeneralAntilles | Yes. |
| 21:36.36 | jku | apparently so. No-one told me |
| 21:37.04 | doc|work | hmm |
| 21:38.05 | *** join/#maemo mazzen (n=mortel@u30-237.dsl.vianetworks.de) |
| 21:39.06 | dmz | must not be on the 770 hacked version, i'll try rtcomm |
| 21:39.07 | dmz | thanks |
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| 21:42.00 | jku | jeesus, someones really on fire on maemo-users: 14 posts 23 minutes |
| 21:42.13 | Myk0n | did anyone here had success streaming H263-1998 content with gstreamer and hantro decoders?! |
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| 22:01.22 | lcuk | :O i love my missus |
| 22:01.31 | lcuk | she is the best :D |
| 22:01.50 | lcuk | :D she found my stylus |
| 22:01.52 | GeneralAntilles | She crafted you a stylus out of soap? |
| 22:02.00 | Navi | sexy |
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| 22:02.32 | lcuk | shes gonna gloat about it for a week now tho |
| 22:02.44 | GeneralAntilles | Haha |
| 22:02.44 | lcuk | cos a few days ago she said "if you dont put it away you'll lose it..." |
| 22:03.16 | lcuk | i had to go all sheepish and ask if she had seen it cos i had "misplaced" it. the cow laughed so loud she nearly set off another earthquake |
| 22:03.50 | lcuk | but i love her now, and *cough* she was right all along. |
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| 22:25.57 | livinded | are any of the open source maps good for the n810? |
| 22:26.10 | Navi | open source maps? |
| 22:26.34 | johnx | openstreetmap looks nice, if it covers your area |
| 22:27.19 | livinded | no way am I paying $129 for 36 months |
| 22:27.56 | GeneralAntilles | The price is just for voice nav. |
| 22:28.00 | GeneralAntilles | You can use the maps for free. |
| 22:28.39 | livinded | it keeps asking me to buy it |
| 22:29.08 | johnx | try maemo mapper |
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| 23:39.11 | *** join/#maemo lopz (i=gentoo-D@unaffiliated/lopz) |
| 23:40.34 | lopz | buenas noches :D |
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| 23:45.25 | dospod | hey peeps |
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