IRC log for #maemo on 20080214

`00:00.12`	`jott`	`hm does anyone actually know of a plug/adapter that fits onto the n810 serial port?`
`00:00.22`	`Navi`	`bt and wifi is really draining`
`00:00.32`	`Navi`	`s/is/are/`
`00:01.10`	`chong-`	`Navi, they also run in the same part of the spectrum`
`00:01.28`	`chong-`	`i can't use my bt headset when my phone is connected to an access point`
`00:03.22`	`GeneralAntilles`	`jott, gotta build one.`
`00:03.28`	`*** join/#maemo pdz (n=paul@135.14.169.217.in-addr.arpa)`
`00:03.47`	`\|tbb\|`	`night all`
`00:04.10`	`ryoohki`	`GeneralAntilles: i have two 16gb sdhc cards for my n800 os2008 and was unsure if they would work. johnx said they would work: "15:30 < johnx> ryoohki, yes. or two 32GB SDHC cards when they come out."`
`00:04.29`	`GeneralAntilles`	`or two 64GB card`
`00:04.32`	`GeneralAntilles`	`or 128GB`
`00:04.35`	`GeneralAntilles`	`or 256GB :D`
`00:05.30`	`derf`	`The SDHC standard maxes out at 32GB.`
`00:05.35`	`ryoohki`	`johnx: so if i flash with the latest os2008( not sure what the version number is) then sdhc will work and there should be no unpleasant surprises`
`00:05.44`	`GeneralAntilles`	`SDHC maxes at 2048GB`
`00:06.58`	`johnx`	`ryoohki, that's correct. if you're really worried about it poke at internettablettalk.com/forums and look at what cards people are using`
`00:06.58`	`GeneralAntilles`	`ryoohki, SDHC has been in OS2007 for a while.`
`00:08.04`	`derf`	`I swear I remember reading 32, but Wikipedia now agrees with you.`
`00:08.12`	`*** join/#maemo svu_ (n=svu@089-101-232125.ntlworld.ie)`
`00:10.18`	`johnx`	`It would have been pretty ridiculous of them to break backwards compatibility with SD and not have it fixed for at least a few years...`
`00:15.20`	`*** join/#maemo bergie (n=bergie@cs181192153.pp.htv.fi)`
`00:19.57`	`Navi`	`haha, someone edited the wiki to agree with him`
`00:20.02`	`Navi`	`it's a conspiracy >:3`
`00:26.51`	`*** join/#maemo skibur (n=skibur@12.197.204.137)`
`00:28.15`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Be nice if somebody could actually cite it either way`
`00:28.28`	`GeneralAntilles`	`but it would be incredibly stupid of them to have only moved the bar up to 32GB`
`00:31.48`	`Navi`	`google says 32`
`00:32.09`	`Navi`	`32 is still quite a ways up from 2 and barely working 4`
`00:32.28`	`johnx`	`yeah, I see 32GB as well from sandisk and kingston`
`00:32.33`	`GeneralAntilles`	`32gb released`
`00:32.41`	`GeneralAntilles`	`But that's not indicating the limit of the spec.`
`00:32.54`	`Navi`	`I was reading from here http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Secure-Digital-High-Capacity-(SDHC)-Explained.htm`
`00:32.55`	`johnx`	`GeneralAntilles, I'm reading their "specifications" PDFs`
`00:33.17`	`johnx`	`I wonder if they're just planning to switch filesystems for the 64GB cards or the whole electrical interface O_o`
`00:33.30`	`Navi`	`the current version of the specification is 32 max`
`00:35.13`	`johnx`	`wow...well that was fantasically short sighted`
`00:36.55`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Is it just a filesystem issue?`
`00:37.07`	`jott`	`hey if the consortium made up something that would last too long the consortium would loose its purpose ... it's just to secure the own job ;)`
`00:37.09`	`cancerbero`	`hello. everybody`
`00:37.15`	`johnx`	`FAT32 supports up to 2048GB I thought...`
`00:37.36`	`*** join/#maemo Ostebaro1en (n=Ostebaro@212.242.131.63)`
`00:38.22`	`Navi`	`They get monies for spec revisions`
`00:38.47`	`cancerbero`	`with the n810 can read and create files .doc nd .xls??`
`00:39.00`	`Navi`	`With the appropriate software, yes`
`00:39.41`	`johnx`	`cancerbero, gnumeric is out already (which can work with .xls files) and abiword (which can read .doc) is in semi-closed beta`
`00:40.05`	`Navi`	`Heh`
`00:40.30`	`Navi`	`The more I look into the tablets`
`00:40.47`	`Navi`	`the more I want to send a "fuck you" to the hildon interface`
`00:40.56`	`johnx`	`GeneralAntilles, reading "Physical Layer Simplified Specificatio Ver2.00" it looks like they might actually need to make some kind of change to the physical spec to support more than 32GB cards ... but hopefully it will just be a driver thing`
`00:41.09`	`johnx`	`Navi, what is it this time? :)`
`00:41.41`	`Navi`	`I'm not a fan of it`
`00:42.16`	`johnx`	`yeah...I really don't see why more people don't just rip off Palm whole-sale`
`00:42.53`	`*** join/#maemo rlaager (n=rlaager@chili.wiktel.com)`
`00:43.21`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Palm sucks. <_<`
`00:43.24`	`cancerbero`	`thanks`
`00:43.37`	`johnx`	`GeneralAntilles, the interface is nice for lots of stuff`
`00:43.48`	`GeneralAntilles`	`For PIM, basically.`
`00:43.55`	`johnx`	`did you ever own a Palm OS device?`
`00:43.59`	`Navi`	`Heh`
`00:44.02`	`Navi`	`wrong question.`
`00:44.03`	`GeneralAntilles`	`But doing anything remotely complex on Palm was always a pain for me.`
`00:44.06`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Yeah, 3.`
`00:44.54`	`Navi`	`Huh`
`00:44.57`	`johnx`	`like name one thing that was harder on palm and is actually easier in maemo?`
`00:44.57`	`Navi`	`s\|Huh`
`00:45.00`	`Navi`	`damn it`
`00:45.09`	`Navi`	`Thumbing around`
`00:45.12`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Web browsing.`
`00:45.25`	`Navi`	`typing medium length emails`
`00:45.28`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Multitasking. :P`
`00:45.39`	`Navi`	`Running programs`
`00:45.53`	`johnx`	`Navi, the "tap the icon" bit was too hard?`
`00:45.54`	`jott`	`enjoying a high resolution display`
`00:45.56`	`jott`	`:)`
`00:46.33`	`johnx`	`right, all are pretty trivial problems...if someone just ripped off palm with the intention of fixing a couple little things the world would be a better place`
`00:46.40`	`Navi`	`johnx, in different cases, my thumb was too big for different parts of the software interface`
`00:46.52`	`GeneralAntilles`	`If you're gonna rip off`
`00:46.55`	`GeneralAntilles`	`rip off Newton`
`00:47.18`	`Navi`	`Beat up Martin`
`00:47.25`	`jott`	`GeneralAntilles: just run einstein :)`
`00:47.29`	`Navi`	`s\|Beat\|eat\|`
`00:47.33`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Blew`
`00:47.48`	`Navi`	`"Eat up Martha"`
`00:47.50`	`Navi`	`:3`
`00:47.59`	`johnx`	`eh?`
`00:48.03`	`*** join/#maemo blkno1 (n=jim@pool-70-20-49-81.man.east.verizon.net)`
`00:48.08`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Simpsons dig at the Newton.`
`00:48.11`	`Navi`	`That's what I think of when someone mentions the newton`
`00:48.18`	`johnx`	`anyways, emulators are a "head in the sand" approach to things`
`00:48.37`	`Navi`	`http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/06/iPhone%20Newton%20Screen.jpg`
`00:48.40`	`johnx`	`"I'll just hide here while someone else works out the way forward" then you take your head out of the sand and see that things got worse...`
`00:48.56`	`johnx`	`heh`
`00:49.40`	`johnx`	`oh, GeneralAntilles it looks like the current physical layer spec for SDHC really does say 32GB for now O_o`
`00:49.52`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Weirdness.`
`00:49.57`	`johnx`	`I'm pretty sure it's something that can be addressed by drivers though`
`00:50.08`	`Navi`	`it'll be boosted when 32GB SDHC become standardized`
`00:50.31`	`johnx`	`well they need to hurry the *(&$ up then`
`00:50.35`	`Navi`	`then the corporations get to go, "Oh yay, the saps bought our expensive SD cards... let's make more even more expensive!"`
`00:51.01`	`johnx`	`I assume it's so that people have to buy new cameras and mp3 players actually`
`00:51.14`	`Navi`	`pfft`
`00:51.27`	`Navi`	`Flash carts for the DS wasn't like that.`
`00:51.41`	`Navi`	`SDHC support through firmware update`
`00:52.02`	`johnx`	`right, for people who aren't trying to milk all the money out of you...`
`00:52.35`	`Navi`	`I buy my crap from Nokia, I'm used to getting milked :3`
`00:54.19`	`johnx`	`if you grab the PDF here: http://www.sdcard.org/about/memory_card/pls and turn to page 98 you get to see that C_SIZE+1 * 512KB = memory capacity but the upper 6bits of C_SIZE are currently undefined so 32GB is the max`
`00:54.29`	`johnx`	`neat, huh?`
`00:54.59`	`jott`	`johnx: then go and fix wikipedia ;)`
`00:55.05`	`*** join/#maemo egsavage (n=egsavage@cpe-066-057-088-238.nc.res.rr.com)`
`00:55.12`	`Navi`	`wikipedia cannot be fixed`
`00:55.16`	`Navi`	`it's inherently flawed`
`00:55.19`	`johnx`	`to me it reads as "we could support more right now but we decided not to."`
`00:55.31`	`johnx`	`Navi, the world waits for your better alternative...`
`00:55.43`	`Navi`	`SkyNet`
`00:55.49`	`jott`	`johnx: see me remark above ;p`
`00:55.52`	`jott`	`my`
`00:55.54`	`Navi`	`and you read it right`
`00:56.13`	`*** join/#maemo Luria (n=user@207-237-215-123.c3-0.80w-ubr16.nyr-80w.ny.cable.rcn.com)`
`00:56.48`	`Navi`	`ls`
`00:56.51`	`Navi`	`damn it`
`00:57.37`	`johnx`	`ls: command not found. Go away!`
`00:58.12`	`jott`	`alias ls=sl`
`00:58.27`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Ha`
`00:58.46`	`Navi`	`s/it/you/`
`00:59.04`	`johnx`	`ahaha`
`00:59.10`	`Navi`	`s/"s/it/you/"/whore/`
`00:59.26`	`Navi`	`aw, doesn't work`
`01:01.02`	`Navi`	`at least I haven't been using dir.`
`01:01.15`	`*** join/#maemo k-s (n=gustavo@189.70.136.15)`
`01:01.45`	`*** join/#maemo jpuderer (n=jpuderer@76-10-134-165.dsl.teksavvy.com)`
`01:02.22`	`*** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com)`
`01:04.39`	`*** join/#maemo ligerzero03 (n=admin@dsl-216-227-12-202.pivot.net)`
`01:04.59`	`jott`	`http://sse2.net/sl_3.03-15_armel.deb ;>`
`01:05.19`	`ligerzero03`	`installing java?`
`01:05.33`	`jott`	`?`
`01:05.38`	`Navi`	`jott, that was fast.`
`01:05.43`	`johnx`	`ligerzero03, I'm not`
`01:05.53`	`ligerzero03`	`lol`
`01:05.56`	`ligerzero03`	`how do you?`
`01:05.59`	`jott`	`i am ;)`
`01:06.25`	`johnx`	`ligerzero03, for development or to run a specific program?`
`01:06.33`	`jott`	`ligerzero03: https://wiki.evolvis.org/jalimo/index.php/Main_Page`
`01:07.20`	`jott`	`Navi: it's just a very trivial command line tool to annoy people who mistype ;)`
`01:07.42`	`Navi`	`:P`
`01:09.00`	`Navi`	`jott, you totally sidetracked me`
`01:09.25`	`jott`	`haha ;)`
`01:09.56`	`Navi`	`my usb cable is giving out`
`01:10.47`	`johnx`	`maybe it's just coiled too tightly and the data is falling off on the bends? :P`
`01:11.00`	`ligerzero03`	`lol`
`01:11.07`	`ligerzero03`	`nah it's just tired of the tight corners`
`01:11.30`	`johnx`	`also: don't shake hard drives or all the data will fall off.`
`01:11.32`	`jott`	`or it always wanted to be a parallel cable and has it's coming out now ;)`
`01:11.58`	`Navi`	`:P`
`01:12.05`	`johnx`	`as geeks, it's important for us to spread misinformation about technology`
`01:12.06`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Haha`
`01:12.12`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Amen, johnx!`
`01:12.23`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Wouldn't want to be out of a job.`
`01:12.30`	`Navi`	`luls`
`01:12.30`	`johnx`	`do you really think car mechanics all tell the truth?`
`01:12.56`	`ligerzero03`	`you forget to format a drive you have to take your hard drive to the laundromat and put your hard drive in for dry cleaning.`
`01:12.59`	`glass`	`not about the geeky bits, sw upgrade is very serious business on a car ;)`
`01:13.11`	`lcuk_3`	`the problem is computers CAN be tough. now cars have computers even the mechanics are beginning to come to us`
`01:13.15`	`lcuk_3`	`WORLD DOMINATION`
`01:13.35`	`egsavage`	`I'm about to try to install OS2008 HE on my N770 with a 2GB Mobile MMC card and am wondering... Which is the _best_ guide on doing that now? I ran across a couple guides on the web but am not sure which is considered the best.`
`01:13.50`	`johnx`	`lcuk_3, have you seen what an ECU looked like, circa 1982 or so? craziness!`
`01:13.54`	`GeneralAntilles`	`He's got OS2008HE!`
`01:13.56`	`GeneralAntilles`	`MOB HIM!`
`01:14.05`	`johnx`	`egsavage, 2007HE I assume?`
`01:14.09`	`egsavage`	`oh, did I mistype? ;-)`
`01:14.14`	`Navi`	`;-)`
`01:14.16`	`egsavage`	`2007HE, sorry ;-)`
`01:14.21`	`egsavage`	`wish i had 2008`
`01:14.28`	`egsavage`	`freudian slip`
`01:14.34`	`johnx`	`it'd be pretty heavy on a 770`
`01:14.42`	`lcuk_3`	`is it just a full recompile, or is it fixing the closed source bits as well?`
`01:14.53`	`Navi`	`It's sexiness is overwhelming`
`01:15.09`	`Navi`	`s/It's/Its`
`01:15.13`	`GeneralAntilles`	`http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw`
`01:15.15`	`GeneralAntilles`	`That creeps me out.`
`01:15.21`	`Navi`	`Too used to not using the last forward slash`
`01:15.37`	`egsavage`	`so which guide is best for getting a dual boot going for a 2GB M-MMC card on a N770?`
`01:15.38`	`lcuk_3`	`johnx, not a specific model but its like the "driver board" on a printer. they are just black boxen to mechanics`
`01:15.43`	`Navi`	`Oh yeah, I've seen that`
`01:16.18`	`GeneralAntilles`	`4:00`
`01:16.40`	`johnx`	`lcuk_3, well, they're embedded electronics. they're pretty much a blackbox to anyone...I think the only thing anyone cares about them for is what trouble codes they're emitting`
`01:17.23`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Well, or haxing for more HP.`
`01:17.40`	`jott`	`johnx: it's alot of reverse-engineering to do that ;)`
`01:17.40`	`johnx`	`GeneralAntilles, that is an awesome video`
`01:18.20`	`egsavage`	`is this one considered current? http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_easily_boot_from_mmc_card/`
`01:18.30`	`jott`	`johnx: the guy did alot of funny stuff`
`01:19.02`	`jott`	`http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~johnny/projects/`
`01:19.40`	`johnx`	`that guy is doing some really neat stuff`
`01:19.51`	`jott`	`the "Low-Cost Multi-point Interactive Whiteboards Using the Wiimote" is also nice`
`01:20.23`	`GeneralAntilles`	`There's so much untapped potential with the Wii.`
`01:20.40`	`jott`	`it's on my todo list on things to build ;)`
`01:21.03`	`johnx`	`GeneralAntilles, and they're closer to easy-homebrew on the console itself as well :D`
`01:21.23`	`jott`	`hehe well all the stuff he did does not even need a wii ;)`
`01:21.25`	`jott`	`just a wiimote`
`01:21.44`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Well, sure, but the Wii made it cheap and easy to find.`
`01:21.49`	`jott`	`indeed`
`01:22.14`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Wish there were more gutsy game developers to take advantage of it.`
`01:24.19`	`lcuk_3`	`the wiimote was invented with one purpose. light sabre. now i have that, my gaming experience is complete`
`01:25.03`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Haha`
`01:25.29`	`GeneralAntilles`	`lcuk_3, did you ever get an opportunity to try one of those LED lightsabers?`
`01:25.51`	`GeneralAntilles`	`http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/warfare/69de/`
`01:25.55`	`lcuk_3`	`yes ive got my proper luke skywalker one and ive got a wii light sword`
`01:26.15`	`lcuk_3`	`the lightsword though impears the signal to the wii`
`01:26.19`	`lcuk_3`	`it is defective :\|`
`01:26.19`	`GeneralAntilles`	`My friends and I used to go downtown and duel with them in high school.`
`01:26.42`	`lcuk_3`	`i faught darth vader the other night at a great party`
`01:27.00`	`GeneralAntilles`	`It's too bad they're not very durable.`
`01:27.17`	`lcuk_3`	`http://www.play.com/Games/Wii/4-/3517983/Wii-Light-Sword/Product.html`
`01:27.27`	`lcuk_3`	`yer, the vader one broke...`
`01:28.07`	`jott`	`hehe what a crap ;)`
`01:28.08`	`lcuk_3`	`the most random thing about that night was the fact darth vader was also the barman for part of the evening`
`01:28.11`	`GeneralAntilles`	`I ended up taking mine apart to repair the LEDs about a half-dozen times.`
`01:28.26`	`jott`	`(the design flaw)`
`01:28.55`	`lcuk_3`	`you are not a true jedi until you can build (or fix) your own sabre`
`01:29.57`	`lcuk_3`	`GeneralAntilles, read the review on that play.com link i gave, thats the problem i had`
`01:30.10`	`ryoohki`	`anyone know why nokia wants your product ID( wlan mac address) for the os2008 download?`
`01:30.20`	`GeneralAntilles`	`I was contemplating filling it with resin or something`
`01:30.27`	`johnx`	`omg, i think I finally got webkit-gtk to build O_o`
`01:30.29`	`GeneralAntilles`	`but it would just mess up the balance.`
`01:30.35`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Send it here!`
`01:30.43`	`jott`	`johnx: congratulation :p`
`01:30.48`	`johnx`	`GeneralAntilles, some libs compiled for zaurus? :P`
`01:30.54`	`lcuk_3`	`just put a proper sabre inside it`
`01:31.31`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Where's my EAL Webkit?`
`01:31.43`	`johnx`	`GeneralAntilles, I have no real interested in EAL...`
`01:31.52`	`johnx`	`as much as people knock autotools it worked pretty much out of the box when I switched from qmake to autotools`
`01:32.34`	`jott`	`johnx: well qmake for building webkit-gtk is not maintained anymore :)`
`01:32.44`	`jott`	`the qt build runs nice with qmake :>`
`01:33.19`	`johnx`	`yeah, I was trying to not have to do too much work in OE, making a new .bb and all...but using autotools turned out to be less work`
`01:33.35`	`Navi`	`Luls`
`01:35.03`	`jott`	`hehe yeah.. gtk should be removed from the qmake buildsystem all along to prevent confusion and strange errors`
`01:35.26`	`jott`	`or switch everything to cmake ;>`
`01:35.27`	`acydlord`	`have you guys read up about the new internet freedom preservation act yet?`
`01:35.39`	`johnx`	`I read the /. summary`
`01:35.45`	`Navi`	`Freedom sucks`
`01:36.10`	`tank-man`	`what is better than freedom?`
`01:36.19`	`Navi`	`Slavery`
`01:36.26`	`johnx`	`Navi, can I have a temporary feeling of security in return for my future freedom and privacy?`
`01:36.42`	`johnx`	`that sounds like a good trade to me...`
`01:36.48`	`tank-man`	`i'm ok with slavery, i buy made in china all the time`
`01:36.48`	`acydlord`	`you forgot liberty`
`01:36.57`	`Navi`	`johnx, yes, you can.`
`01:37.03`	`johnx`	`woo!`
`01:37.33`	`acydlord`	`there is something unnerving with the fact that my local representative is "representative flake"`
`01:38.12`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Ew Glock.`
`01:38.13`	`johnx`	`representative flake: never more than one standard deviation away from the average flake!`
`01:38.21`	`Navi`	`Warzone 2100 any fun?`
`01:38.29`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Yes.`
`01:38.40`	`Navi`	`I don't trust GeneralAntilles`
`01:38.47`	`*** join/#maemo blasse1 (n=Administ@c-24-60-19-25.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)`
`01:38.50`	`Navi`	`He's a general, after all.`
`01:39.09`	`acydlord`	`he could be a generalization`
`01:39.43`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Mine isn't a political position.`
`01:40.17`	`Navi`	`still reason enough to cast doubt`
`01:41.01`	`Navi`	`s/sneases/sneezes/`
`01:41.04`	`johnx`	`mmm...new android sdk`
`01:41.08`	`Navi`	`cool`
`01:41.40`	`jott`	`johnx: with the new ui?`
`01:41.49`	`johnx`	`looks like :)`
`01:41.50`	`Navi`	`I wonder how Google's going to stick their ads on`
`01:41.59`	`jott`	`and finally the sources? ;)`
`01:42.12`	`johnx`	`haven't looked yet but I think no sources for now`
`01:42.23`	`jott`	`haha just kidding "open" means "closed" where as "closed" means "patented" ;)`
`01:42.45`	`Navi`	`closed open source`
`01:42.56`	`Navi`	`s/closed open/patented closed/`
`01:43.12`	`johnx`	`jott, they have committed to opening all (most?) under the apache license`
`01:43.50`	`jott`	`johnx: i know.. well we still have to see what the commitment is worth`
`01:44.06`	`johnx`	`I'm willing to be we'll see all of the android source before we see all the maemo source`
`01:44.26`	`jott`	`;)`
`01:44.29`	`*** join/#maemo astro76 (n=jtaji@unaffiliated/astro76)`
`01:45.10`	`jott`	`well quim made it clear that they have no intention of releasing anything..`
`01:45.15`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Is never before never?`
`01:45.24`	`jott`	`ever ;)`
`01:46.07`	`Navi`	`s/never/Duke Nukem Forever/g`
`01:46.30`	`johnx`	`yeah...I'm still deciding on what to do in terms of Debian on the N800...whether to try and use the parts of hildon that are open or not bother at all and just do xfce or matchbox or something :/`
`01:46.48`	`lcuk_3`	`s/never/duke nukem forever on the hud of my flying car/g`
`01:47.00`	`Navi`	`lcuk_3, cannot find pattern`
`01:47.08`	`jott`	`well it would be more debian if all closed parts would be killed :)`
`01:47.19`	`Navi`	`Ha`
`01:47.31`	`Navi`	`I'd like the hildon keyboard`
`01:47.38`	`Navi`	`that's the only part of it that I like`
`01:48.02`	`johnx`	`Navi, that is pretty nice..I have mixed feelings about sapwood`
`01:49.04`	`Navi`	`the rest should go the debian netinstall way`
`01:49.05`	`johnx`	`jott, do you have a feeling for how much of the power management needs specific poking of dsme to work and how much just works automagically?`
`01:50.00`	`jott`	`hm i would guess one could get quite alot working without dsme`
`01:50.16`	`johnx`	`you mean without it running at all?`
`01:50.25`	`jott`	`i hope so..`
`01:50.41`	`Navi`	`People are talking too much, I can't keep up with conversations`
`01:50.56`	`johnx`	`well battery charging needs bme and for some reason I thought bme needed dsme`
`01:51.00`	`johnx`	`maybe I misunderstood`
`01:51.08`	`jott`	`but not sure about this.. we should look into the dsme binary`
`01:51.36`	`jott`	`maybe it's just some kernel methods/ioctls`
`01:51.42`	`johnx`	`if we try and kill off dsme I think we'll need to turn off watchdog-timeout-reboot`
`01:52.10`	`johnx`	`someone on maemo devel list said that dsme wouldn't be that hard to replace`
`01:52.11`	`jott`	`yeah in the end the watchdog will only harm..`
`01:55.27`	`johnx`	`what I don't understand is if dsme causes dvfs stuff to take place or whether the kernel just handles it behind the scenes`
`01:56.05`	`jott`	`hmm atleast dsme has debug symbols in it`
`01:56.13`	`johnx`	`oh, that's nice`
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`01:58.30`	`jott`	`hm so everthing goes through the libstartup that in turn loads other modules?!`
`02:04.50`	`jott`	`hmm most of the modules look quite trivial`
`02:06.26`	`jott`	`they just seem to be some wrapper around sysfs ;)`
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`02:07.45`	`johnx`	`O_o`
`02:07.55`	`johnx`	`well I know brightness has controls in sysfs`
`02:08.17`	`johnx`	`if I can do this in a couple sh scripts I'll be grinning for days`
`02:08.27`	`jott`	`hehe`
`02:09.07`	`jott`	`libinactivity-blank.so seems to handle brightness`
`02:09.24`	`johnx`	`there's a patch to bring dpms into xomap`
`02:09.44`	`johnx`	`brightness is pretty much a solved problem I think`
`02:10.19`	`jott`	`more or less, yeah`
`02:11.32`	`jott`	`still the module also uses /dev/fb0 :>`
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`02:11.42`	`jott`	`besides /sys/devices/platform/omapfb/panel/backlight_level`
`02:13.38`	`johnx`	`well there's the rtc`
`02:15.11`	`jott`	`i suppose you can disable the lcd via /dev/fb0 ioctl stuff, right?`
`02:15.44`	`jott`	`(that should be easy to find out as the kernel parts are open ;-)`
`02:15.55`	`johnx`	`and so is the x server (thank god!) O_o`
`02:16.03`	`johnx`	`found the temp sensor in sys`
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`02:16.26`	`johnx`	`I think it just outputs Celsius with a couple extra digits tacked on`
`02:16.53`	`johnx`	`maybe if we just ignore dsme it will go away :D`
`02:17.21`	`jott`	`johnx: for some little infos: strings /mnt/initfs/usr/lib/dsme/*.so`
`02:17.43`	`jott`	`(grep sys e.g. ;-)`
`02:17.46`	`johnx`	`that's what I'm reading :D`
`02:18.04`	`johnx`	`one term for reading strings, one for poking at sysfs`
`02:20.44`	`johnx`	`the cynic in me says obfuscation`
`02:21.12`	`johnx`	`also, keeping binary, proprietary stuff out of the kernel`
`02:21.44`	`jott`	`yeah well in the end it's not that much proprietary stuff in there`
`02:21.53`	`jott`	`just some infrastructure and obfuscation ;)`
`02:22.01`	`johnx`	`I'm still fuzzy on how bme interacts with the whole mess`
`02:22.20`	`johnx`	`it definitely links to libdsme.so.0.1.0...`
`02:22.33`	`jott`	`libdsme is used for the socket communication`
`02:22.43`	`jott`	`that in turn is just the dsme`
`02:22.49`	`jott`	`that loads the libs in the initfs`
`02:22.56`	`jott`	`atleast thats what i guess`
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`02:28.05`	`johnx`	`people agree that bme seems to be the hard part...but don't really say how much stuff is in bme to begin with`
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`02:28.46`	`jott`	`yeah hard to tell.. a quit objdump is not as easy to parse as the dsme stuff ;)`
`02:28.56`	`jott`	`s/quit/quick/`
`02:31.58`	`johnx`	`OT: I'm really surprised that the 770 hasn't spawned even one real alternative distro while each zaurus had maybe half a dozen in their day`
`02:32.10`	`GeneralAntilles`	`johnx, community size?`
`02:32.21`	`johnx`	`I wonder if it's because Nokia's Maemo/ITOS was actually good enough or what...`
`02:32.33`	`johnx`	`GeneralAntilles, hmm...maybe`
`02:32.47`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Or ITOS is actually OK, too.`
`02:32.50`	`jott`	`it's not size that matters :P`
`02:33.00`	`johnx`	`maybe a device without a keyboard just doesn't draw the hardcore Linux crowds`
`02:33.56`	`GeneralAntilles`	`A bit of both sounds like a safe answer.`
`02:35.32`	`Tak`	`itos is pretty nice for the most part`
`02:36.02`	`johnx`	`Tak, it really is, for the most part`
`02:36.20`	`Tak`	`anybody know how to keep the opera backend from re-rendering 10x before a page loads?`
`02:36.40`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Is there a setting for delay in the config file?`
`02:37.50`	`Tak`	`I didn't see one - I'm trying to search ITT, but I'm on the tablet...`
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`02:40.18`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Been a long time since I used Opera`
`02:41.04`	`jott`	`i hope we can get rid of firefox in the near future..`
`02:41.16`	`johnx`	`jott, me too O_o`
`02:41.21`	`GeneralAntilles`	`What Firefox? :P`
`02:41.22`	`Tak`	`I remember seeing a hack ages ago`
`02:41.27`	`jott`	`gecko`
`02:41.30`	`jott`	`what ever ;)`
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`02:41.50`	`jott`	`this bulky thing with the bulky slow browsers using it ;)`
`02:41.51`	`johnx`	`epiphany-webkit works so well on the tablet in debian...google maps is actually usable`
`02:42.36`	`Tak`	`on the pc side, ff3 is pretty snappy`
`02:42.46`	`Navi`	`I suppose`
`02:42.57`	`Navi`	`1.9 is an improvement on 1.8`
`02:43.11`	`jott`	`if they would not use gtk i would might even use it on my desktop ;)`
`02:43.12`	`Tak`	`johnx: what's all working in debian now?`
`02:43.20`	`Tak`	`hardware-wise`
`02:43.29`	`johnx`	`Tak, everything but sound output (which might be close)`
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`02:43.44`	`GeneralAntilles`	`MicroB is 1.9`
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`02:44.22`	`Navi`	`which is nice... Gecko's been getting slower since forever`
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`02:44.23`	`Navi`	`GeneralAntilles, I know`
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`02:44.23`	`johnx`	`and sometimes hardware buttons don't work until you restart the x server...`
`02:44.23`	`Tak`	`that's killer - anybody using it on 770?`
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`02:44.23`	`Navi`	`Unfortunately, it doesn't match webkit in terms of size and speed`
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`02:44.47`	`johnx`	`Tak, debian? b0unc3 has at least tested it, but I haven't heard from anyone else :/`
`02:45.08`	`johnx`	`I'd actually like to get my hands on a 770 to test on, but I can't really justify the purchase right now`
`02:45.16`	`Tak`	`I see - what about power management?`
`02:45.30`	`johnx`	`well, actually jott and I are looking at that right now :P`
`02:46.03`	`Navi`	`If I wanted an IT right _now_, I could get a 770`
`02:46.22`	`Navi`	`:(`
`02:46.35`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Ew gross`
`02:46.38`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Don't do it!`
`02:46.57`	`Navi`	`But I must submit to peer pressure and listen to GeneralAntilles`
`02:47.05`	`johnx`	`still looks like $100 on ebay :/`
`02:47.10`	`Navi`	`it is`
`02:47.16`	`Navi`	`amazon too, I believe`
`02:48.42`	`Navi`	`hrm`
`02:48.42`	`jott`	`party time ;>`
`02:48.42`	`johnx`	`there's enough sold that I assume I'll be able to pick one up later`
`02:48.42`	`johnx`	`the hardware buttons look soooo much nicer on the 770 vs the n800`
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`02:49.08`	`Navi`	`I like the 770's form overall`
`02:49.09`	`Navi`	`sexy black over geeky silverish gray`
`02:49.09`	`Tak`	`I agree`
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`02:49.32`	`Navi`	`Epic split`
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`02:51.23`	`Navi`	`odd.`
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`02:56.04`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Navi, stop playing with the routers.`
`02:56.22`	`Navi`	`Sorry. I'm done`
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`02:59.33`	`Navi`	`New internet meme: "So the N800..."`
`02:59.38`	`Navi`	`http://youtube.com/watch?v=bIllSv0TIQo`
`02:59.41`	`rm_you`	`yeah i'm going to need one of each eventually :/`
`02:59.56`	`j0tt`	`this bme binary is really ugly :/`
`03:01.14`	`johnx`	`j0tt, I imagine so`
`03:08.18`	`*** join/#maemo Dregz (n=Dregs@unaffiliated/dregz) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`03:09.56`	`rm_you`	`johnx: whats the stuff called... with the rice... and the mix thing... and the green tea...`
`03:09.59`	`rm_you`	`ochazuke`
`03:10.00`	`rm_you`	`nm`
`03:10.04`	`johnx`	`yes`
`03:10.06`	`rm_you`	`lol`
`03:10.06`	`Proteous`	`how big of a memory card would I need to test debian on my 770?`
`03:10.08`	`rm_you`	`it finally came to me`
`03:10.20`	`johnx`	`1GB if you use my tarball`
`03:10.24`	`Proteous`	`hmf`
`03:10.31`	`johnx`	`a reasonable minimum would fit in 512MB`
`03:10.49`	`Proteous`	`since I'm probably not going to buy an 810 soon I might as well get a bigger mem card for my 770`
`03:10.50`	`johnx`	`and maybe if I squished it quite a lot something would fit in 256MB...`
`03:10.53`	`Proteous`	`heh`
`03:11.04`	`Proteous`	`I only have the stock 64 meg card :P`
`03:11.12`	`Proteous`	`a 2 gig one is pretty cheap`
`03:11.16`	`johnx`	`ah, I can't work miracles`
`03:11.19`	`Proteous`	`lol`
`03:11.27`	`Proteous`	`I don't expect you too`
`03:11.46`	`Proteous`	`got my appleTV delivered today !`
`03:11.51`	`Proteous`	`haven't hooked it up yet`
`03:11.58`	`Proteous`	`also haven't started haxoring it up yet`
`03:14.40`	`ryoohki`	`I'm fixing to "./flasher-3.0 -F <firmware> -f -R"... What the latest OS2008 on http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N800.php?f=??????.bin ?`
`03:15.04`	`ryoohki`	`Why does nokia want to know your wlan mac address?`
`03:15.23`	`GeneralAntilles`	`So they can tell if you have a device?`
`03:15.25`	`Proteous`	`to make sure you have a real nokia tablet and are not just downloading the update`
`03:15.37`	`Proteous`	`also to report you to the NSA`
`03:15.48`	`ryoohki`	`so what's the url for the latest os2008?`
`03:16.00`	`Proteous`	`so they can track your every move through thier covert system of wifi access points`
`03:16.09`	`GeneralAntilles`	`tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N800.php`
`03:16.11`	`johnx`	`just go to tablets-dev.nokia.com and look up the one that says "latest"`
`03:16.41`	`rm_you`	`johnx: AIM me a link to the tarball so i can put it on my flash later`
`03:16.48`	`rm_you`	`or a link to the thread or something`
`03:17.01`	`johnx`	`rm_you, http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=Debian`
`03:17.10`	`ryoohki`	`RX-34_2008SE_2.2007.50-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin ?`
`03:17.26`	`Proteous`	`I have my brothers WSODed 770`
`03:17.27`	`johnx`	`ryoohki, yes`
`03:18.26`	`johnx`	`Proteous, aaah...that will be tough`
`03:19.03`	`johnx`	`if you try debian I'll give you a hack to get usb networking up early in the boot process`
`03:19.13`	`Proteous`	`well, I have one that works`
`03:19.21`	`Proteous`	`I also have my brothers that doesn't`
`03:19.27`	`johnx`	`well, why make it easy? :P`
`03:19.30`	`johnx`	`that's like cheating`
`03:19.31`	`Proteous`	`lol`
`03:19.35`	`Proteous`	`so true`
`03:19.48`	`Proteous`	`with debian on there who needs a screen?`
`03:20.01`	`Proteous`	`just need usb networking and ssh`
`03:20.10`	`Proteous`	`put apache on there or something...`
`03:20.12`	`johnx`	`yeah, it will make a nice little portable web server once you bring up wireless`
`03:21.03`	`Proteous`	`I can have it beep out morse code of output, and use morse code tap on the screen for input`
`03:21.09`	`Proteous`	`s/of/for/`
`03:21.27`	`Proteous`	`that would make IRC fun`
`03:21.45`	`johnx`	`just use text to speech`
`03:21.55`	`Proteous`	`heh`
`03:22.02`	`Proteous`	`there's no mic`
`03:22.15`	`Proteous`	`I could use a bluetooth headset I guess`
`03:22.28`	`johnx`	`I thought there was a mic?`
`03:22.45`	`Proteous`	`is there?`
`03:23.02`	`Proteous`	`ghmm`
`03:23.08`	`Proteous`	`google says maybe yes`
`03:23.17`	`johnx`	`linuxdevices says yes :)`
`03:24.07`	`GeneralAntilles`	`There's a mic on every NIT ever produced.`
`03:24.17`	`Proteous`	`it also says it has stereo speakers...`
`03:24.18`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Don't mistake the 770's for a reset port, please.`
`03:24.32`	`GeneralAntilles`	`On 3.5mm it does, Proteous. ;)`
`03:24.35`	`Proteous`	`maybe they ment stereo speaker`
`03:24.39`	`Proteous`	`hehe`
`03:24.53`	`Proteous`	`it has a stereo headphone output`
`03:24.55`	`Proteous`	`but only one speaker`
`03:25.44`	`GeneralAntilles`	`The N800's stereo separation is really awesome when you put your nose to the screen.`
`03:25.50`	`Proteous`	`heh`
`03:26.30`	`Proteous`	`I did think the mic hole was a reset button`
`03:26.31`	`tank-man`	`i love the n800's speakers, they are so loud`
`03:26.40`	`Proteous`	`although I never tried to press it :P`
`03:29.46`	`Tak`	`GeneralAntilles: plus that's a great way to type on the fullscreen kb`
`03:30.00`	`ryoohki`	`how long does flashing take for the n800?`
`03:30.04`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Gets greasy fast. <_>`
`03:30.15`	`GeneralAntilles`	`30 seconds?`
`03:34.14`	`Tak`	`well, wash your nose!`
`03:34.30`	`johnx`	`woo! midori on zaurus is usable as a web browser`
`03:35.11`	`johnx`	`and it only takes ~40MB while running`
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`03:37.23`	`Navi`	`usable?`
`03:37.31`	`johnx`	`pretty much`
`03:37.39`	`Navi`	`compared to unusable?`
`03:37.42`	`Navi`	`:3`
`03:37.53`	`johnx`	`yes`
`03:37.58`	`dskippy`	`Does anyone know if the level element is in gstreamer maemo? I can't find it. It's usually in plugins-good`
`03:38.09`	`johnx`	`compared to basically any other browser on the zaurus, it works better`
`03:38.15`	`Navi`	`hehe`
`03:38.37`	`johnx`	`Navi, you have no idea... shakes head`
`03:38.44`	`Navi`	`of course not`
`03:39.53`	`johnx`	`Nokia has actually accomplished quite a bit in getting good web browsing on the NITs...`
`03:43.21`	`j0tt`	`johnx: run this on your z ;) http://www.abrahamjoffe.com.au/ben/canvascape/`
`03:43.56`	`j0tt`	`http://www.abrahamjoffe.com.au/ben/canvascape/textures.htm or better the texture version :)`
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`03:47.37`	`johnx`	`ha!`
`03:47.39`	`johnx`	`yeah right`
`03:48.17`	`johnx`	`google maps is painfully slow`
`03:48.24`	`johnx`	`like 1 frame every 5 seconds`
`03:48.34`	`j0tt`	`so no playable canvas shooter?! :/`
`03:49.01`	`johnx`	`I'll try it if you really want`
`03:49.06`	`johnx`	`it will probably render...`
`03:49.18`	`j0tt`	`hehe well yeah as there is no fps display its not worth it i guess ;)`
`03:49.43`	`j0tt`	`but maybe it well be blazing fast :>`
`03:50.00`	`johnx`	`I think there's something holding up screen refreshes`
`03:50.16`	`johnx`	`epiphany-webkit seemed to be faster in debian/zaurus actually than midori on angstrom/zaurus`
`03:50.46`	`j0tt`	`svn webkit?`
`03:50.57`	`johnx`	`I will need to check on that actually`
`03:51.49`	`johnx`	`my dependencies might have gotten screwed up and I might have an old webkit installed while I built with a new one`
`03:52.02`	`johnx`	`my gut feeling is that it might be a midori thing vs epiphany...`
`03:52.32`	`johnx`	`still the rendering speed is reasonable, just the refresh isn't that fast`
`03:52.51`	`johnx`	`engadget is my usual test for "big bloated site" and midori has no problem with it`
`03:56.32`	`johnx`	`tried it, maybe up to 2fps if I do only small movements`
`03:56.51`	`johnx`	`anyways, have to go to work, will be back later tonight, maybe`
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`04:06.33`	`Navi`	`http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9FOVJP81ew`
`04:06.35`	`Navi`	`o_o`
`04:09.19`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Win.`
`04:10.27`	`Navi`	`very much so`
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`04:21.49`	`rm_you`	`rofl`
`04:21.53`	`rm_you`	`that's awesome`
`04:22.01`	`rm_you`	`in the way that i want to go kill some people`
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`04:54.59`	`joebloe`	`hello`
`04:55.10`	`*** join/#maemo dskippy (n=dskippy@c-76-118-159-31.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)`
`04:55.36`	`dskippy`	`Does anyone know if I can capture the HOME key and prevent it from doing anything while my program is running?`
`04:55.47`	`Proteous`	`probably not`
`04:55.52`	`Proteous`	`but I"m not sure`
`04:56.05`	`dskippy`	`It seems to be the only button that I can't stop`
`04:56.05`	`Proteous`	`I also don't seem to lift of the shift key fast enough`
`04:57.36`	`joebloe`	`was thinking about upgrading to OS2008 on n800 ... has anyone had problems with reverting back to 2007 ?`
`04:57.37`	`acydlord`	`so it seems`
`04:58.26`	`GeneralAntilles`	`You can swap back and forth without trouble.`
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`05:01.18`	`kaje`	`Anyone in here own an n810?`
`05:01.48`	`acydlord`	`yup`
`05:02.27`	`kaje`	`can you tell me which SD card I should get (micro or mini)? I really don't want a card that is sticking halfway out`
`05:02.45`	`*** join/#maemo dpb__ (i=dbainton@nat/movial/x-d3d6ad52767d2cbf)`
`05:03.18`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Either or`
`05:03.21`	`GeneralAntilles`	`It's a minisd slot`
`05:03.28`	`GeneralAntilles`	`but micro cards work fine with an adaptor.`
`05:03.35`	`Proteous`	`micro < mini`
`05:03.37`	`*** join/#maemo kaatis_ (i=jkataja@nat/movial/x-dbc9a839c031169c)`
`05:03.39`	`kaje`	`so either will not be sticking out of the device?`
`05:03.45`	`Proteous`	`yes`
`05:03.58`	`Proteous`	`well, the micro will have to go in a mini sized adaptor`
`05:04.04`	`GeneralAntilles`	`It's minisd slot, why would a minisd card stick out?`
`05:04.25`	`kaje`	`great... are you glad you bought the device? I'm on the verge of buying one`
`05:04.26`	`Proteous`	`because it put on a few pounds`
`05:04.35`	`kaje`	`hehe`
`05:05.26`	`acydlord`	`i like my n810`
`05:05.59`	`Proteous`	`who can afford such excess`
`05:06.05`	`kaje`	`since I can use either micro or mini does one have an advantage over the other?`
`05:06.12`	`acydlord`	`but... honestly... if it hadnt been for the developer discount i problably would have stuck with my n800 for another year`
`05:06.31`	`acydlord`	`micro can fit in most newer cell phones`
`05:06.32`	`Proteous`	`wierdly, it seems like the larger capacity cards are micro`
`05:07.13`	`GeneralAntilles`	`MiniSD doesn't really have much of a purpose.`
`05:07.14`	`Proteous`	`how much was the developer discount?`
`05:07.15`	`Navi`	`micros work the best for multiple devices`
`05:07.16`	`acydlord`	`i wish it had full sizesd`
`05:07.23`	`acydlord`	`cause i've seen sd cards up to 32gb`
`05:07.24`	`Navi`	`there's always adapters`
`05:07.41`	`Proteous`	`Sd to micro adaptors?`
`05:07.41`	`acydlord`	`developer discount knocked it down to $160USD after everything`
`05:07.42`	`Proteous`	`heh`
`05:07.45`	`Proteous`	`damn`
`05:07.49`	`Proteous`	`that's quite a discount`
`05:07.54`	`acydlord`	`indeed`
`05:07.56`	`Navi`	`micro -> normal`
`05:07.57`	`kaje`	`wow, where can I get that discount!? hehe`
`05:08.15`	`acydlord`	`kaje, if you have access to a time machine, september would be a start :p`
`05:08.37`	`kaje`	`hehe`
`05:08.48`	`kaje`	`thanks a bunch for all the help guys`
`05:08.52`	`*** join/#maemo pyhimys (n=kytomaki@v6.fi)`
`05:09.00`	`acydlord`	`geekbrief.tv has a discount code somewhere for it too`
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`06:05.44`	`joebloe`	`doesn't the n800 only have 128mb ram .. upgraded to OS2008 .. and it reads 251.5MB "device memory" ?`
`06:06.21`	`*** join/#maemo EruditeHermit (n=Erudite@unaffiliated/eruditehermit)`
`06:08.55`	`Navi`	`Swappage?`
`06:10.39`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Flash. . . .`
`06:10.56`	`Navi`	`Oh, device memory :o`
`06:14.16`	`*** join/#maemo irque (n=dan@cpe-76-88-2-144.san.res.rr.com)`
`06:17.44`	`irque`	`ever since i made my n810 boot from SD, application manager will sometimes fail to install/update a package with an odd error message:`
`06:17.48`	`irque`	`dpkg-deb (subprocess): error in buffer_read(stream): failed to write to pipe in copy: Input/output error`
`06:18.05`	`irque`	`ever see that before?`
`06:18.22`	`irque`	`it doesn't say what path it is failing to write to, etc`
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`06:18.32`	`irque`	`and i've ruled out filesystem corruption`
`06:21.28`	`irque`	`any ideas?`
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`06:27.22`	`irque`	`ah i think i figured it out, it's trying to use a named pipe on a vfat fs`
`06:27.36`	`*** join/#maemo Zic (n=Zic@ubuntu/member/zic)`
`06:28.00`	`irque`	`and we all know that the only named pipe microsoft is familiar with is Crackpipe`
`06:28.57`	`Proteous`	`lol`
`06:30.31`	`*** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com)`
`06:30.47`	`irque`	`now i just need to figure out why application manager insists on using /media/mmc1`
`06:31.06`	`irque`	`any idea how i can change that setting?`
`06:35.48`	`irque`	`yup, that fixed it!`
`06:35.57`	`*** join/#maemo t_s_o (n=tso@63.84-49-135.nextgentel.com)`
`06:36.38`	`irque`	`there's an option in prefs for app manager (only accessible in red pill mode) that says to download packages to mmc. i turned that off and now my problem is gone.`
`06:36.59`	`irque`	`though no one here helped me, i thank you, #maemo`
`06:37.05`	`irque`	`goodnight!`
`06:40.09`	`*** join/#maemo konttori (n=konttori@a88-114-91-19.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
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`07:20.45`	`rm_you`	`lol`
`07:20.46`	`rm_you`	`damn`
`07:20.58`	`rm_you`	`no LCARS iconset till tomorrow :(`
`07:21.08`	`sxpert`	`boohoo !!`
`07:22.28`	`inz`	`yay, the world is safe for one morre day`
`07:22.32`	`rm_you`	`lol`
`07:23.01`	`rm_you`	`i'll do it tomorrow, really :P`
`07:23.05`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Ha`
`07:23.09`	`GeneralAntilles`	`You get the code figured out?`
`07:23.12`	`rm_you`	`eh`
`07:23.24`	`rm_you`	`didn't really have time`
`07:23.56`	`rm_you`	`had some womenfolk over <_<`
`07:24.06`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Good enough excuse. :P`
`07:24.17`	`rm_you`	`well, one. anyways, hard to code in that environment :P`
`07:25.05`	`Luria`	`lcars is back?`
`07:25.47`	`GeneralAntilles`	`and better than ever.`
`07:25.57`	`GeneralAntilles`	`http://synthesize.us/LCARS_PADD`
`07:26.33`	`Luria`	`noice`
`07:27.29`	`rm_you`	`bbl, i have an appointment with my pillow for the next 7 hours`
`07:28.07`	`*** join/#maemo \|tbb\| (i=d95b155b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-fcfee0ab1768b708)`
`07:28.10`	`solmumaha`	`internet is broken :(`
`07:28.40`	`solmumaha`	`inz: have any problems with foreign connections?`
`07:29.13`	`\|tbb\|`	`morning all`
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`07:29.37`	`solmumaha`	`morning`
`07:29.46`	`inz`	`solmumaha, at least google works here a-ok`
`07:29.59`	`solmumaha`	`k`
`07:30.10`	`solmumaha`	`i can't access anything outside finland atm`
`07:30.26`	`inz`	`solmumaha, no idea what operator i am using though, just that the wlan is called "default" ;)`
`07:30.36`	`solmumaha`	`i bet it's not sonera`
`07:32.01`	`inz`	`no traceroute on the device`
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`07:33.32`	`inz`	`solmu, seems to be elisa`
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`07:34.37`	`solmumaha`	`k, prolly just the storm then`
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`08:21.37`	`inz`	`solmu, http://www.sonera.fi/Asiakastuki/H%E4iri%F6tiedotteet/Datayhteydet+ulkomaille+eiv%E4t+toimi+140208`
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`08:25.03`	`hrw`	`morning`
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`08:29.14`	`\|tbb\|`	`morning`
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`08:30.06`	`b0unc3`	`good morning`
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`08:52.47`	`juliux`	`hi`
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`08:55.26`	`oilinki`	`shirt.`
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`08:55.45`	`oilinki`	`anyone using pidgin with IRC proxy?`
`08:56.17`	`oilinki`	`how to avoid parting the channel when pidgin is closed?`
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`08:59.54`	`wwp`	`oilinki: how would you remain connected to IRC if you quit your IRC client?`
`09:00.18`	`oilinki`	`wwp: with irc-proxy (using miau currently).`
`09:00.18`	`wwp`	`if you use a proxy to bounce your IRC connection, it's up to the proxy to keep you alive`
`09:00.34`	`wwp`	`tried killing pidgin instead of quitting? ;)`
`09:00.37`	`oilinki`	`eg. the proxy is keeping it up`
`09:00.45`	`oilinki`	`wwp: heh. I suppose I need to do that :)`
`09:00.51`	`wwp`	`eheh maybe`
`09:01.15`	`wwp`	`not sure, if the proxy doesn't keep you alive, the IRC server will shoot your nick after a timeout`
`09:01.22`	`oilinki`	`but anyway. with xchat, ircII etc. this works fine.`
`09:02.03`	`oilinki`	`but when pidgin is closed the app sends /part or /leave message to the channels.. and all my other clients get kicked out as well`
`09:02.05`	`doc\|home`	`dogs--`
`09:02.16`	`doc\|home`	`fucker just chewed one of my styluses`
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`09:02.46`	`oilinki`	`doc\|home: well, you'll know where to put the spare ;)`
`09:03.03`	`doc\|home`	`oilinki: yeah, good thing I put it aside :( know where I can get spares?`
`09:03.17`	`Tobotras`	`Is there any web-camera apps f/maemo?`
`09:03.30`	`doc\|home`	`Tobotras: garage.maemo.org has at least one`
`09:03.46`	`oilinki`	`doc\|home: sorry, don't know. nokiashop maybe?`
`09:04.22`	`doc\|home`	`thanks, will look`
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`09:14.48`	`Tobotras`	`doc\|home: any hints on name? :)`
`09:15.26`	`Tobotras`	`doc\|home: ok, found it, thanks`
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`09:23.21`	`playya2`	`Hi`
`09:23.58`	`playya2`	`hi`
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`09:27.29`	`lcuk_3`	`gah!!! xchat is flashing but its gone from scrollback`
`09:27.32`	`lcuk_3`	`(hates that)`
`09:27.40`	`Jaffa`	`Morning, all`
`09:27.50`	`Jaffa`	`lcuk_3: check the log on the web?`
`09:28.31`	`lcuk_3`	`mornin jaff, i would do if it was important, and quicker i could check my local disk log but its like a needle in a haystack without local highlighting`
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`09:52.28`	`\|tbb\|`	`my sylog of desktop pc says -> kernel: [10216.501687] usb0: no IPv6 routers present`
`09:52.38`	`\|tbb\|`	`what could i do to fix that`
`09:55.31`	`*** join/#maemo AD-N770 (n=jep@nat/fluendo/x-bfa6e57ad4460ec0)`
`09:55.55`	`AD-N770`	`bon dia / good morning`
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`09:58.09`	`felipec`	`buenos dias AD-N770`
`09:59.40`	`solmumaha`	`\|tbb\|: disable ipv6`
`10:04.24`	`playya2`	`anyone tried to install build depencies for osso-rss-feed-reader in scratchbox?`
`10:04.54`	`playya2`	`cant find osso-rss-feed-reader-l10n-mr0 in the reposittories`
`10:10.50`	`\|tbb\|`	`solmumaha: could u tell me how?`
`10:14.53`	`*** join/#maemo florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69)`
`10:16.08`	`solmumaha`	`\|tbb\|: blacklist ipv6 module?`
`10:16.15`	`*** join/#maemo LinuxCode (n=Titan@unaffiliated/linuxcode)`
`10:16.28`	`LinuxCode`	`morning all`
`10:16.40`	`LinuxCode`	`is it just me...or can it be that GPS pathc drains your battery ?!?!`
`10:16.42`	`LinuxCode`	`patch`
`10:16.46`	`LinuxCode`	`I think I will have to reflash`
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`10:18.04`	`Juhaz`	`it probably drains your battery because now you're actually using the gps ;)`
`10:18.45`	`LinuxCode`	`no more like it never switches off..hence its faster but also drains the battery`
`10:18.57`	`LinuxCode`	`which sucks if the N810 only lasts a day`
`10:18.58`	`LinuxCode`	`haha`
`10:19.02`	`LinuxCode`	`priorities!`
`10:19.08`	`LinuxCode`	`gps is no priority`
`10:19.27`	`LinuxCode`	`besides...around this neck of the woods I cant get a lock`
`10:19.40`	`LinuxCode`	`so its pointless`
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`10:21.26`	`wwp`	`hmm googling didn't help me knowing if a libxlst is really available for chinook. anyone has a hint?`
`10:22.49`	`\|tbb\|`	`solmumaha: sorry got no clue havent activate it by myself`
`10:26.15`	`solmumaha`	`what distribution?`
`10:26.22`	`\|tbb\|`	`ubuntu gutsy`
`10:26.33`	`solmumaha`	`echo "blacklist ipv6" >> /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist`
`10:27.40`	`LinuxCode`	`thats one thing I would like to see in the N810`
`10:27.43`	`LinuxCode`	`ipv6!`
`10:27.56`	`LinuxCode`	`so I can tunnel ipv6 over openvpn`
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`10:34.02`	`playya2`	`where can i find the osso-rss-feed-reader-l10n-mr0 package and all depencies?`
`10:34.28`	`michele_`	`well, I skimmed through the "what would you like in the N900" thread and it's amazing how people can be out of touch with reality`
`10:36.11`	`LinuxCode`	`michele_, I want a burger maker in it please`
`10:36.23`	`LinuxCode`	`and a microwave`
`10:36.55`	`LinuxCode`	`on a serious note.... Id like it to have bash instead of busyboxes ash`
`10:36.57`	`playya2`	`after the new patents of nokia you will slide it in 5 directions an fold it like a folding ruler`
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`10:37.29`	`LinuxCode`	`morning \|tbb\|`
`10:38.31`	`michele_`	`LinuxCode: there is no real reason to have bash. the only people who'd want it can easily install it by themselves`
`10:39.04`	`jku`	`LinuxCode, do you know how slow bash is?`
`10:40.00`	`LinuxCode`	`jku, maybe...`
`10:40.07`	`LinuxCode`	`but its more usable`
`10:40.09`	`LinuxCode`	`imho`
`10:40.27`	`LinuxCode`	`even if it was optional`
`10:40.31`	`LinuxCode`	`that be nice`
`10:40.35`	`LinuxCode`	`let people chose`
`11:57.57`	`*** join/#maemo infobot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)`
`11:57.57`	`*** topic/#maemo is development platform for Nokia Internet Tablets \| http://freedesktop.org/Software/sbox2/Maemo \| http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog \| http://www.gronmayer.com/it \| http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook`
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`12:41.58`	`Spakman_`	`does anyone know if lynx is in any repository?`
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`12:59.28`	`johnx`	`Spakman, no lynx but there is links`
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`13:05.03`	`Tak`	ugh - my build works if I do `make distclean; ./configure; make` but not if I do `dpkg-buildpackage -rsudo`
`13:06.26`	`\|tbb\|`	`hey tak`
`13:06.38`	`Tak`	`hello \|tbb\|`
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`13:20.33`	`Spakman_`	`johnx: thanks a lot. I found a .deb on garage.`
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`13:22.56`	`Tobotras`	`No wokring camera app for os2008 :(`
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`13:32.36`	`hrw`	`Tobotras: really?`
`13:32.47`	`hrw`	`Tobotras: I have camera on n810 working`
`13:33.26`	`Tobotras`	`hrw: using what?`
`13:34.04`	`Stskeeps`	`Tobotras: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/3-x/howto_camera_api_bora.html , - can possibly build something with that? i saw a camera app in repository though too?`
`13:34.18`	`Zero_Dogg`	`me too, nokia shipped some program in one of the repos`
`13:34.20`	`Drag0s`	`Hello. Where can I an evince os 2008 unstable repo/package?`
`13:35.09`	`Tobotras`	`Stskeeps: that's for os2007`
`13:35.15`	`Stskeeps`	`Tobotras: works just fine on os2008`
`13:35.16`	`Stskeeps`	`:P`
`13:35.18`	`Stskeeps`	`just tested it`
`13:36.11`	`Stskeeps`	`atleast the python version`
`13:36.14`	`Tobotras`	`Stskeeps: oh!`
`13:39.08`	`hrw`	`Tobotras: camera app`
`13:39.42`	`hrw`	`http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com chinook/user Packages`
`13:39.46`	`hrw`	`there is camera app`
`13:41.48`	`jku`	`Stskeeps, that document is available for 4.0 too, suggest using that (there could be changes)`
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`13:43.37`	`Tobotras`	`hrw: like others, cannot grab camera [after SIP client pops up]`
`13:44.05`	`Tobotras`	`up to rebot`
`13:44.08`	`Stskeeps`	`Tobotras: from somewhere: . Disable video chat from loading on camera coming out "gconftool-2 --set --type bool '/system/osso/af/launch-on-camera' 'false'"`
`13:44.09`	`Tobotras`	`reboot`
`13:44.23`	`Tobotras`	`Stskeeps: that's it, thanks`
`13:47.18`	`Zero_Dogg`	`Anyone have any clue how to use the Norwegian keys on the N810 slide-out keyboard? They've put all of the scandinavian countries into one keyboard setting, and the keys "�" and "�" thus doesn't work`
`13:48.17`	`hrw`	`Zero_Dogg: the hw keyboard mapping suxx`
`13:48.27`	`hrw`	`Zero_Dogg: tried Chr+r for "�"?`
`13:48.32`	`Zero_Dogg`	`hrw: I've noticed :/`
`13:49.16`	`hrw`	`Zero_Dogg: you can need to press chr+r few times to get your r-thing`
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`13:49.53`	`Zero_Dogg`	`hrw: ah, bah. Chr+the � button yields �. That's silly, because the char that appears when I just press the button is never ever used in Norwegian :/`
`13:50.17`	`Tobotras`	`Heh. Still camera works only once after boot, next invocation yields v4l2_next: VIDIOC_DQBUF: Input/output error`
`13:50.34`	`hrw`	`Zero_Dogg: I would like to know how to edit that list so for my Polish keymap chr+o would give � in first place`
`13:51.18`	`Zero_Dogg`	`hrw: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/ukeyboard/ does it, so might be possible to just look at the source of that and modify it`
`13:51.35`	`hrw`	`ukeyboard allow to use other keymaps then official ones`
`13:53.34`	`hrw`	`but even if my keymap has '�' on Chr+c it will not give it at first press`
`13:54.20`	`hrw`	`keyboard handling is not solved in maemo in good way`
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`13:59.18`	`\|tbb\|`	`is maemo.org down?`
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`14:01.23`	`Navi`	`No.`
`14:03.29`	`Zero_Dogg`	`What is the issue with maemo.org any way? Is it actually running on an N800 or something?`
`14:04.21`	`*** join/#maemo b0r0las (n=mmejiav@190.84.254.27)`
`14:04.30`	`mwaldron`	`that's why they upped the clockspeed for the 800 in os2008, to improve performance of maemo.org`
`14:04.57`	`*** join/#maemo luck^ (n=Luciano@200.184.118.132)`
`14:05.06`	`Zero_Dogg`	`lol`
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`14:09.38`	`\|tbb\|`	`it cant be a n810 cause there is not enough storage possibility (only one sdcard slot :)`
`14:09.45`	`pupnik_`	`why do I see 4 clients on my network with kismet :\|`
`14:10.06`	`pupnik_`	`only 1 tablet connected`
`14:10.13`	`\|tbb\|`	`your neighbors ;)`
`14:10.20`	`mwaldron`	`i saw this morning there are 8gb microSDHC cards. so where are our 16gb minisdhc? :)`
`14:11.36`	`Navi`	`that crap is so expensive.`
`14:11.46`	`mwaldron`	`nosd`
`14:11.47`	`mwaldron`	`nosd`
`14:11.51`	`mwaldron`	`nods dammit i typed nods`
`14:12.00`	`hrw`	`32GB sdhc exists in SD format...`
`14:12.00`	`mwaldron`	`going to be one of those days`
`14:12.24`	`mwaldron`	`i picked up a 4gb minisdhc for $18. i can wait a bit for more storage`
`14:12.31`	`Navi`	`I've always been able to fit my life within 10GB sans the music collection`
`14:12.37`	`Navi`	`and the anime`
`14:13.01`	`mwaldron`	`i do wish the 810 had a microsdhc for it's 'internal' memory, hiding under teh battery`
`14:14.18`	`Navi`	`I'm pretty content`
`14:14.25`	`pupnik_`	`ahh kismet is finding the MAC addresses of the LAN devices on the router - router broadcasting Routing info`
`14:14.31`	`Navi`	`The 2GB internal memory is enough for me`
`14:15.06`	`Navi`	`Of course, I don't have an N810, so what do I know?`
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`14:18.05`	`\|tbb\|`	`pupnik_ your luck ;)`
`14:18.34`	`mwaldron`	`so far i like my 810`
`14:18.43`	`mwaldron`	`but i need to stop complaining about lack of vpn and get it working`
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`14:20.10`	`ol_schoola`	`what is the status of openVPN on os2008? i've been distracted by my AppleTV lately and haven't checked in at ITT in a while`
`14:21.32`	`mwaldron`	`i think openvpn works`
`14:21.37`	`mwaldron`	`i need ms pptp though`
`14:21.44`	`mwaldron`	`i saw packages for openvpn anyway`
`14:21.47`	`Veggen`	`Hmm. I should get around to setting up openvpn at home.`
`14:22.04`	`Veggen`	`can you bridge through openvpn?`
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`14:22.21`	`mwaldron`	`i use it at home (via sveasoft linksys) and we use it here at work too`
`14:22.24`	`K-Fox`	`hi`
`14:22.26`	`mwaldron`	`i could change home, but not work`
`14:22.36`	`Veggen`	`...i.e. can you make those upnp-filebrowsing/multimedia-stuff work through it?`
`14:22.37`	`mwaldron`	`well, i could, but my boss prolly not like me much fi i did`
`14:22.55`	`K-Fox`	`is it possible to listen lastfm on canola2 ?`
`14:23.16`	`K-Fox`	`vagalume is no volume`
`14:23.26`	`ol_schoola`	`ah, i thought the vpn util was for the Cisco clients only, works with openVPN too? will use it with openWRT at home`
`14:24.15`	`ol_schoola`	`Veggen: if it can land on your internal LAN over VPN, yep`
`14:24.17`	`mwaldron`	`hrm, i could easily be wrong :)`
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`14:25.11`	`ol_schoola`	`mwaldron: i'll get off my a$$ and look into it. just gotta install Perian on the appleTV and it'll play wmv's`
`14:25.16`	`\|tbb\|`	`k-fox vagalume works fine for me`
`14:25.24`	`ol_schoola`	`too many toys, so little time`
`14:25.55`	`ol_schoola`	`K-Fox: vagalume worked for me too`
`14:26.05`	`\|tbb\|`	`wish i can record the streams ;)`
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`14:27.59`	`mwaldron`	`that's my problem with vpn. 90% lazy 10% scared`
`14:28.00`	`K-Fox`	`vagalume have no volume control`
`14:28.07`	`mwaldron`	`but i need to get it working`
`14:28.51`	`Veggen`	`ol_schoola: of course it can. I was thinking of setting up openvpn towards my firewall (openBSD based)`
`14:29.14`	`Veggen`	`...and I run my home wireless on it's own zone on the firewall.`
`14:32.11`	`ol_schoola`	`interesting. i have a buffalo linkstation and a wrt54g. i've been thinking of setting up the linksys as a captive access point for guests that visit (happens more often than i thought)`
`14:33.04`	`ol_schoola`	`but i really need to tie the IT back to the home net to simplify the SMTP conundrum`
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`14:39.34`	`tony2001`	any idea why `dsmetool -k "/path/to/binary"` doesn't kill the process started with `dsmetool -f "/path/to/binary"` ?
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`14:43.25`	`\|tbb\|`	`kfox use the hardware zoom +/- button s`
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`14:50.56`	`K-Fox`	`\|tbb\|: oh it''s good , really i did not know this function .... thank you`
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`14:59.37`	`michele_`	`man monotone is painful...`
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`15:02.07`	`melmoth`	`Anybody knows why i do not get the vprintf output of maemomapper to stdout ?`
`15:02.26`	`melmoth`	`if i change them to g_printf, it works..but i guess there are vrptinf for a good reason`
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`15:32.45`	`ywwg`	`On my desktop, I can call os.nice(someval) and then I can call os.nice(0 - someval) to return to regular 0 niceness. But, on maemo, when I try to increment a negative niceness I get Operation Not Permitted. Is this unavoidable?`
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`15:37.05`	`*** part/#maemo gomiam (n=magao@157.88.94.233)`
`15:38.11`	`wwp`	`ywwg: tried as user or root?`
`15:38.24`	`ywwg`	`wwp: user`
`15:38.37`	`ywwg`	`user works on the desktop, but not on the nokia`
`15:38.41`	`wwp`	`ywwg: IIRC renicing could be a root-thing under certain conditions`
`15:39.00`	`wwp`	`I'm not sure if that applies to this case, though`
`15:39.37`	`*** join/#maemo msanchez (n=Mario@cm216016.red83-165.mundo-r.com)`
`15:39.56`	`*** join/#maemo skibur (n=skibur@12.197.204.137)`
`15:40.45`	`\|\|cw`	`a user cna't make a processes less nice`
`15:46.12`	`ywwg`	`whine.`
`15:46.42`	`ywwg`	`it works on the desktop tho :/. I'm trying to find a way to make my program not clobber the system quite as much while it's working`
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`15:49.52`	`trickie`	`ywwg: a user can only renice processes belonging to them, and only in the range 0-20`
`15:50.04`	`trickie`	`root can renice what they want to whatever value`
`15:50.26`	`ywwg`	`trickie: that's ok, I want to nice to 2, and then back to 0. it won't let me go backwards (where it was)`
`15:53.09`	`trickie`	`is it a process that your active user owns?`
`15:55.59`	`melmoth`	`any maemo mapper around ?`
`15:56.08`	`melmoth`	`i meant maemomapper developper :`
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`17:23.40`	`michele_`	`is it possible, modifying rx-44 to change the chars I get with the Chr key?`
`17:26.30`	`mgedmin`	`I'm sure it is`
`17:26.38`	`mgedmin`	`it's not necessarily easy`
`17:26.55`	`michele_`	`do you have pointers?`
`17:27.10`	`mgedmin`	`the configuration lives somewhere in /usr/share/X11/xkb/`
`17:27.21`	`michele_`	`yes, I already modified it`
`17:27.36`	`mgedmin`	`then you know more than I do :)`
`17:27.37`	`michele_`	`but I don't know how to change the beaviour of the Chr key`
`17:27.55`	`mgedmin`	`what's the keysym assigned to Chr?`
`17:27.57`	`*** join/#maemo jegp (n=jegp@200.26.176.183)`
`17:28.32`	`michele_`	`no idea, I guess Mod5, but I'm not sure`
`17:28.43`	`mgedmin`	`I don't have a N810 myself`
`17:29.01`	`mgedmin`	`it could be ISO_Level3_Shift, or Multi_key`
`17:29.17`	`michele_`	`yes Mod5 is mapped on Level3`
`17:29.18`	`mgedmin`	`how does it work? Do you press Chr e = to get a Euro sign, or do you hold Chr and press something to get something?`
`17:29.46`	`michele_`	`you hold Chr and press e to get è or é`
`17:29.50`	`mgedmin`	`aha`
`17:30.04`	`*** join/#maemo skibur (n=skibur@12.197.204.137)`
`17:30.23`	`mgedmin`	`if so then editing columns 3 and 4 in /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-44 ought to change the characters you get`
`17:30.32`	`mgedmin`	`(after a reboot)`
`17:30.36`	`michele_`	`no, that's for Fn, not Chr`
`17:31.26`	`michele_`	`btw, I hate how everybody in the US is changing € to be \| ;)`
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`17:32.13`	`mgedmin`	`do you have xev?`
`17:32.22`	`michele_`	`no`
`17:32.31`	`mgedmin`	`there's a package with it out there somewhere`
`17:33.03`	`mgedmin`	`oh, actually I built it and uploaded to my repo (http://mg.pov.lt/770 chinook user)`
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`17:34.35`	`michele_`	`I'll have a look at wath hrw did for the polish layout first`
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`18:01.43`	`melmoth`	`still no maemomapper developper around ?`
`18:02.32`	`michele_`	`melmoth: there's only one, and does not hang on here usually`
`18:03.10`	`melmoth`	`ok, i ll send him a mail then. (funny though, the garage project show several people commiting in the tree)`
`18:05.46`	`*** join/#maemo pdz- (n=paul@135.14.169.217.in-addr.arpa)`
`18:06.22`	`michele_`	`in that case I am just wrong`
`18:06.32`	`*** join/#maemo pope523 (n=pope523@cpe-65-24-105-94.columbus.res.rr.com)`
`18:07.16`	`melmoth`	`no problemo, i use to be wrong quite often too :)`
`18:07.21`	`\|tbb\|`	`lardman: around?`
`18:07.44`	`pope523`	`I have OS2007 installed on my 770. I have found a couple of howtos on configuring the 770 to allow you to mount Windows shares, but none of them have worked for me. It says the modules is invalid when I try to load it. Can anyone help me out?`
`18:10.12`	`lcuk_3`	`anyone using an apple bluetooth keyboard with their 8x0?`
`18:10.23`	`*** join/#maemo pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be)`
`18:10.36`	`mgedmin`	`lcuk_3: I am`
`18:10.57`	`lcuk_3`	`how do i pair it with my device - ive got one here and its trying to pair and giving a passcode on 810 but obviously pairing fails`
`18:11.09`	`lcuk_3`	`is there a passcode default or something`
`18:11.56`	`michele_`	`I found this just minutes ago http://cs.gmu.edu/~sean/stuff/n800/keyboard/`
`18:12.06`	`michele_`	`might be useful`
`18:12.56`	`mgedmin`	`lcuk_3: you're supposed to type the same passcode on the keyboard and press enter`
`18:13.18`	`mgedmin`	`also, there's a bug that sometimes pops up a 'pairing failed' error before you even get a chance to do that`
`18:13.43`	`lcuk_3`	`thanks`
`18:13.46`	`lcuk_3`	`ive done it`
`18:13.51`	`lcuk_3`	`:D`
`18:14.03`	`lcuk_3`	`now ive gotta put it away for a week until my birthday`
`18:14.17`	`lcuk_3`	`apple dorks in the apple shop didnt think it would work with anything other than a mac`
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`18:16.07`	`Solarion`	`how do I get the n810 to receive OBEX transfers ove bluetooth?`
`18:16.36`	`s1d`	`have something that accepts opex push requests on that rfcomm port`
`18:17.01`	`Solarion`	`s1d: I want to receive files on the n810`
`18:19.03`	`lcuk_3`	`my missus says she actually managed to baffle the apple people. she is mega chuffed now`
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`18:21.06`	`mgedmin`	`Solarion: I just commented on a maemo bug about that :)`
`18:21.10`	`mgedmin`	`coincidence?`
`18:21.15`	`Solarion`	`mgedmin: w00t!`
`18:21.31`	`mgedmin`	`I managed to get my 770 with sobexsrv to accept OBEX PUSH transfers from a Palm Tungsten T`
`18:21.43`	`mgedmin`	`it required a change in the server code to advertise an additional data format (0xFF)`
`18:21.49`	`Solarion`	`mgedmin: ouch`
`18:21.52`	`mgedmin`	`I don't know what exactly N8x0 uses`
`18:21.52`	`Solarion`	`that doesn't sound simple`
`18:21.58`	`mgedmin`	`but it might require an equivalent patch`
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`18:23.09`	`\|tbb\|`	`NAT is not enabled in the kernel by default, anyone knows how to insmod that nat thing?`
`18:23.29`	`mgedmin`	`insmod /path/to/iptables-nat.ko, I assume`
`18:23.34`	`mgedmin`	`after you've built it somehow`
`18:26.20`	`\|tbb\|`	`anyone built a nat module for bora, before?`
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`18:44.44`	`pope523`	`Can soemone help me mount Windows shares?`
`18:46.03`	`mwaldron`	`not yet, but hopefully i'll get to that part of my 810 next week`
`18:46.16`	`mgedmin`	`I don't know if you can mount them, but you can browse them with the File Manager`
`18:46.42`	`pope523`	`Can I access files on shares through the file manager?`
`18:46.46`	`mgedmin`	`yes`
`18:46.51`	`pope523`	`On OS2007?`
`18:46.53`	`mgedmin`	`no`
`18:46.56`	`mgedmin`	`on OS2008`
`18:47.13`	`mgedmin`	`I suggest an upgrade`
`18:47.16`	`pope523`	`And I can't install OS2008 on a 770, right?`
`18:47.23`	`mgedmin`	`ah, no`
`18:47.29`	`mgedmin`	`I withdraw my suggestion`
`18:47.34`	`pope523`	`heh`
`18:47.38`	`mgedmin`	`(you said OS2007, not OS2007HE!)`
`18:47.39`	`b0unc3`	`pope523: you can use wizard-mounter on OS2007`
`18:48.00`	`b0unc3`	`oh OS2007HE... well.. I dont' know :)`
`18:48.05`	`pope523`	`I tried Wizard Mounter. I click the button to mount the share and it appears that the program closes without mounting it`
`18:48.06`	`Zero_Dogg`	`mgedmin: how is it possible to browse network shares in the file manager? (is sftp possible by the way?)`
`18:49.08`	`*** join/#maemo Tuco1 (n=Tuco1@unaffiliated/tuco1)`
`18:49.15`	`pope523`	`Maybe I should have spent the extra $100 for an n800 :)`
`18:49.26`	`Navi`	`pope523, you should have.`
`18:49.32`	`mgedmin`	`Zero_Dogg: it just works for me`
`18:49.38`	`Navi`	`Zero_Dogg, sftp should be possible`
`18:49.45`	`mgedmin`	`open file manager, wait a few seconds, notice the 'Shared Folders' entry at the bottom on the left`
`18:49.50`	`Zero_Dogg`	`isn't there an unofficial os2008 for it?`
`18:49.53`	`Zero_Dogg`	`mgedmin: ah, right`
`18:49.54`	`mgedmin`	`open it, see all the network servers`
`18:49.59`	`Zero_Dogg`	`Navi: any clue how?`
`18:50.18`	`Zero_Dogg`	`mgedmin: right, guess that's smb then`
`18:50.18`	`Navi`	`any clue how what?`
`18:50.25`	`Zero_Dogg`	`Navi: how to access sftp`
`18:50.27`	`mgedmin`	`a 770 is just on wrong side of 'too slow, too little RAM', a n800 is just on the right side of 'barely fast enough, sufficient RAM'`
`18:50.45`	`Navi`	`Zero_Dogg, set up openssh-server`
`18:50.48`	`mgedmin`	`hm, maemo uses gnome-vfs`
`18:50.51`	`Navi`	`and connect to it`
`18:50.56`	`mgedmin`	`gnome-vfs supports sftp`
`18:51.06`	`mgedmin`	`but is that support compiled in the maemo version?`
`18:51.18`	`Zero_Dogg`	`I know gnome-vfs does, but I haven't found any way to actually connect in the maemo file manager`
`18:56.05`	`mwaldron`	`i know this question is out of left field, but has anyone dissected a n810 that would know who the physical manufacturer of the screen it?`
`18:56.08`	`mwaldron`	`s/it/is`
`18:56.23`	`*** part/#maemo pope523 (n=pope523@cpe-65-24-105-94.columbus.res.rr.com)`
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`19:05.35`	`hrw\|gone`	`michele_: key <AB06> { type="EIGHT_LEVEL", [ nacute, Nacute, dollar, dollar, n, N, dollar, dollar ] };`
`19:05.57`	`michele_`	`I was sure you knew`
`19:05.58`	`michele_`	`thanks`
`19:06.00`	`*** part/#maemo bedboi (n=bedboi@c3lab.poliba.it)`
`19:06.11`	`hrw\|gone`	`michele_: its: chr+n, chr+shift+n, fn+n, fn+shift+n, n, shift+n, fn+n, fn+shift+n`
`19:06.23`	`hrw\|gone`	`michele_: but chr+SOMETHING is ignored ;(`
`19:06.39`	`hrw\|gone`	`michele_: find how to change and give info ;D`
`19:06.41`	`hrw\|gone`	`bye`
`19:06.51`	`michele_`	`I don't understand what's being ignored`
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`19:16.53`	`mgedmin`	`aha, so the Chr key is actually <RCTL>`
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`20:33.37`	`jott`	`hrw\|gone (and others) fyi, i solved the "Chr" issue by setting the "key <COMP>" to "ISO_Level5_Shift" and adding a modifier_map (e.g. modifier_map Mod3 { ISO_Level5_Shift } )... this way the EIGHT_LEVEL works`
`20:34.19`	`jott`	`then you have ... type="EIGHT_LEVEL", [ None, Shift, LevelThree, Shift+LevelThree, LevelFive, Shift+LevelFive, LevelThree+LevelFive, Shift+LevelThree+LevelFive ] ...`
`20:34.29`	`jott`	`wher LevelThree = Fn and LevelFive = Chr`
`20:35.01`	`mgedmin`	`ah, so Chr is <COMP> after all`
`20:35.07`	`mgedmin`	`which is mapped to Multi_key by default, right?`
`20:35.17`	`mgedmin`	`then it must be the input method that's doing stuff to it`
`20:35.44`	`mgedmin`	`because Gtk's standard handling of Multi_key is to map three keystrokes into one (e.g. Multi_key c o => copyright)`
`20:37.16`	`*** part/#maemo bhearsum (n=bhearsum@durhamlug/pdpc.basic.bhearsum)`
`20:37.40`	`jott`	`yes, it was multi_key.. but i like it more to have a direct mapping :)`
`20:38.28`	`jott`	`i wished they had not used the F-keys for Menu/Zoom/etc... so one could actually use them in applications.. (like Chr+Q => F1)`
`20:39.46`	`mgedmin`	`have you noticed symbols/level5?`
`20:39.55`	`mgedmin`	`(and types/level5, and compat/level5)`
`20:40.10`	`jott`	`yes.. thats why i concluded i need a Level5 key ;)`
`20:40.28`	`mgedmin`	`I've been scratching my head trying to understand where these were used`
`20:40.35`	`mgedmin`	`which is apparently nowhere by default :)`
`20:41.01`	`jott`	`the "types/default" and "compat/default" includes them`
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`20:41.32`	`jott`	`(i suppose thats why they are loaded ;)`
`20:43.56`	`mgedmin`	`right, I was looking for a key actually mapped to those`
`20:44.11`	`mgedmin`	`and why does it use 0xffwhatever instead of ISO_Level5_Shift?`
`20:44.59`	`jott`	`sorry i'm not that deep into xkb config files ;).. i also wondered why..`
`20:46.59`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Whoa whoa whoa. Did anybody notice this? http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/internet_tablet_hacker_edition_pushed_at_chinook_level.html`
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`20:48.36`	`jott`	`hehe nice, so drop suport for everything < os2008 NOW! :)`
`20:49.02`	`jott`	`no excuses are tolerated anymore :>`
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`20:51.49`	`fysa`	`cool.`
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`21:15.47`	`maddler`	`ls -ltr`
`21:15.50`	`maddler`	`wops! :D`
`21:16.11`	`t_s_o`	`ugh, iphone...`
`21:16.33`	`GeneralAntilles`	`ls: Command not found. Go away!`
`21:17.18`	`keesj`	`ls -lart > GeneralAntilles`
`21:19.23`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Just installed OS2008HE.`
`21:20.37`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Creeps me out.`
`21:20.44`	`rm_you`	`wait, WHAT?!`
`21:20.48`	`rm_you`	`2008HE!?`
`21:20.55`	`rm_you`	`wtf?`
`21:21.07`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Ha`
`21:21.30`	`rm_you`	`lol`
`21:21.43`	`rm_you`	`i hope you're kidding... or that you're not. I'm not sure which would be better.`
`21:21.46`	`pupnik`	`wow oprofile is totally awesome`
`21:21.49`	`mwaldron`	`www.maemo.org`
`21:21.50`	`mwaldron`	`ww`
`21:21.51`	`mwaldron`	`:P`
`21:28.17`	`*** join/#maemo Navi_ (i=816b4980@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-0dcb2da5c8330040)`
`21:30.18`	`pupnik`	`esd takes up a fair amount ot time`
`21:30.45`	`*** join/#maemo skibur (n=skibur@12.197.204.137)`
`21:31.40`	`pupnik`	`http://pastebin.ca/904328`
`21:36.03`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Well, I'm not unimpressed by OS2008HE.`
`21:36.08`	`GeneralAntilles`	`It's reasonably responsive.`
`21:38.36`	`pupnik`	`GeneralAntilles: hows the browser?`
`21:44.04`	`pupnik`	`<PROTECTED>`
`21:44.18`	`pupnik`	`144808 31.9373 dosbox CPU_Core_Simple_Run()`
`21:44.18`	`pupnik`	`43815 9.6634 dosbox mem_writew(unsigned int, unsigned short)`
`21:44.21`	`pupnik`	`39148 8.6341 dosbox OPL2::YM3812UpdateOne(int, short*, int)`
`21:44.30`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Feels REALLY good, actually.`
`21:44.34`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Startup is a little slow.`
`21:44.41`	`GeneralAntilles`	`But it's pretty responsive on normal sites.`
`21:45.55`	`pupnik`	`why were they so pessimistic on the wiki then?`
`21:45.57`	`rm_you`	`GeneralAntilles: wow. I'm actually amazed they were working on that.`
`21:46.15`	`rm_you`	`GeneralAntilles: you have a 770?!`
`21:46.33`	`GeneralAntilles`	`So the ravenous hordes don't take a little optimism and turn it into unmet hype. <_<`
`21:46.50`	`GeneralAntilles`	`2, rm_you.`
`21:46.54`	`rm_you`	`GeneralAntilles: !?! >_>`
`21:46.57`	`rm_you`	`GeneralAntilles: send me one :P`
`21:47.14`	`rm_you`	`why would you have 2x 770?`
`21:47.20`	`GeneralAntilles`	`woot.com`
`21:47.23`	`rm_you`	`>_>`
`21:47.28`	`rm_you`	`but... WHY`
`21:47.45`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Mostly for an extra battery for my N800.`
`21:47.50`	`rm_you`	`rofl`
`21:48.15`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Partly because they make great couch/nightstand/kitchen/wherever browsers/terminals/ebook readers/media playback controllers.`
`21:48.33`	`GeneralAntilles`	`mmpc means I can control music playback from just about anywhere. :D`
`21:49.10`	`GeneralAntilles`	`pupnik, it chokes a bit on the heavier AJAX stuff.`
`21:49.14`	`GeneralAntilles`	`digg is a little painful`
`21:49.17`	`GeneralAntilles`	`slashdot is good`
`21:49.19`	`Navi_`	`:3`
`21:49.22`	`GeneralAntilles`	`wikipedia work nicely.`
`21:49.37`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Mostly during rendering`
`21:49.40`	`Navi_`	`Wikipedia isn't very javascript heavy`
`21:49.42`	`pupnik`	`digg suxx`
`21:49.42`	`GeneralAntilles`	`it gets better after it's loaded.`
`21:49.56`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Well, duh, but it's good for testing bloated sites. :P`
`21:50.05`	`pupnik`	`true`
`21:50.35`	`Juhaz`	`how's the memory usage? 2007he wasn't really usable for me since it keeps hogging everything down by itself and leaves almost nothing for the poor apps`
`21:51.45`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Probably a lot worse than OS2007HE.`
`21:52.13`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Avoiding too much multitasking wouldn't be a bad idea.`
`21:52.46`	`rm_you`	`use swap >_>`
`21:53.03`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Only gets you 128MB total.`
`21:55.46`	`jott`	`...use more swap :)`
`21:56.03`	`Juhaz`	`well, you could use a partition or your own file instead of the one the control panel applet creates, but the universe only lasts so long.`
`21:57.00`	`jott`	`the universe collapses if you manually create swap space on a n770? :O`
`21:57.16`	`Navi_`	`ha`
`21:57.26`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Nah, I'm just way too lazy.`
`21:58.39`	`Juhaz`	`well, no, it's just that the 770 with that much swap is so slow that I'd still be waiting for it to do something when the universe collapses (or however it will eventually choose to go) naturally`
`21:59.07`	`mgedmin`	`a linux machine with no swap is much slower when it runs out of ram than a linux machine with swap`
`21:59.46`	`Navi_`	`ha`
`21:59.51`	`Navi_`	`lockup if you're out of ram`
`22:00.00`	`Navi_`	`and have no swap`
`22:00.18`	`Navi_`	`Faster if you kill everything than waiting for load times`
`22:02.06`	`*** join/#maemo mmr (n=mm@bzq-79-182-141-250.red.bezeqint.net)`
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`22:04.12`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Poor INdT guys are gonna have to work up a Canola for OS2008HE now.`
`22:04.35`	`mmr`	`whys that`
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`22:04.39`	`*** join/#maemo jegp (n=jegp@200.26.176.183)`
`22:04.42`	`Navi_`	`Heh`
`22:04.46`	`mmr`	`have i missed the new version`
`22:04.51`	`k-s[WORK]`	`GeneralAntilles: it would be easier`
`22:04.57`	`k-s[WORK]`	`GeneralAntilles: 2007 sucks hard`
`22:05.06`	`GeneralAntilles`	`I don't envy the work.`
`22:05.16`	`Vudentz__`	`?`
`22:05.16`	`GeneralAntilles`	`mmr, see maemo.org`
`22:05.17`	`k-s[WORK]`	`it's not stable AND it's old/broken`
`22:05.31`	`Vudentz__`	`The newer the better`
`22:05.43`	`Navi_`	`heh`
`22:05.43`	`mmr`	`ah gotcha`
`22:05.57`	`mmr`	`unbelievable`
`22:06.13`	`mmr`	`who would have thought the old 770 still had some lif eleft`
`22:07.18`	`Navi_`	`ha`
`22:08.13`	`jku`	`so no more hacker editions after this, that's what the announcement looks like to me...`
`22:08.48`	`mmr`	`i wonder when 2008 next edition is coming out for n800/810 and what the improvements are`
`22:09.28`	`jku`	`mmr, probably whenever the WIMAX version is released`
`22:09.54`	`GeneralAntilles`	`jku, "She jus' canna take anymore!"`
`22:10.09`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Supposed a fix for the race issue should be out soon.`
`22:10.18`	`GeneralAntilles`	`So, probably that, then the WiMAX version.`
`22:10.27`	`mmr`	`race issue?`
`22:10.29`	`jku`	`GeneralAntilles, :) yeah I understand the reasons`
`22:11.59`	`GeneralAntilles`	`The power-on problems, mmr.`
`22:12.12`	`mmr`	`ah`
`22:12.13`	`jku`	`GeneralAntilles, still, that will be the time when the important proprietary bits will hurt the most: I guess no-one will be able to upgrade the kernel and still keep wireless working on the 770...`
`22:12.51`	`jku`	`... even if there was community driven 770 OS development`
`22:13.01`	`mmr`	`isnt it a shame they dont worry about europeans who are not likely to ever see wimax`
`22:13.12`	`mmr`	`seeing as 3g is hitting 7.2meg`
`22:13.25`	`jku`	`mmr, what do you mean?`
`22:13.54`	`jku`	`that they should have released a 3G version and not wimax?`
`22:14.19`	`mmr`	`well it would be an idea`
`22:14.48`	`jku`	`then someone would be saying " isnt it a shame they dont worry about americans..."`
`22:15.09`	`mmr`	`yes but nokia usually worries first about europeans`
`22:15.17`	`mmr`	`cdma came waay after gsm`
`22:15.24`	`jku`	`I guess they see that as a problem :)`
`22:15.26`	`lcuk_3`	`have we heard anything about the gps initialization problem yet? do we know if nokia are wroking on it`
`22:16.06`	`jku`	`I don't know if there is a specific problem. I guess the chip is just really bad without assistance...`
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`22:16.11`	`Navi_`	`I have a 3G phone, I think. If I had money to go on a non-prepaid plan, I would know :3`
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`22:36.59`	`maddler`	`yawn!`
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`23:20.49`	`t_s_o`	`gah, why is it that it seems apple invented on the go web surfing with the iphone?!`
`23:21.25`	`glass`	`because there's the truth and then theres apple advertising`
`23:21.39`	`glass`	`you know why they didn't participate on mwc or last years 3gsm..`
`23:21.58`	`glass`	`they like to pretend others don't exist(and also that others don't have decent batt life in 3g etc)`
`23:22.20`	`glass`	`it's just basic apple marketing`
`23:22.44`	`t_s_o`	`and when presented with the N800 or N810 they grasp multitouch as the holy grail...`
`23:23.43`	`glass`	`and "virtual"gps as "as good as real thing"`
`23:23.56`	`wnd`	`glass, s/apple //`
`23:23.57`	`t_s_o`	`have not seen that yet`
`23:24.22`	`glass`	`t_s_o: it was on this one video`
`23:24.44`	`glass`	`t_s_o: where someone went on to interview people lining up before iphone release`
`23:24.54`	`t_s_o`	`still, a magazine that writes about mobile phones and similar gave the N810 and ipod touch about the same overall score, with the touch getting 1 point more because of default multimedia capabilities`
`23:25.08`	`glass`	`t_s_o: he shot the video with a n95 and asked all kinda things about people who were lining up`
`23:25.12`	`glass`	`about gps etc`
`23:25.18`	`t_s_o`	`:P`
`23:25.30`	`glass`	`someone of them said it has "virtual gps" and shit like that(apparently a map program is 'virtual gps')`
`23:27.59`	`t_s_o`	`got to love the RDF...`
`23:29.32`	`jott`	`has someone by any chance a gdbserver that works in the n8x0 initfs uclibc env?`
`23:29.51`	`jku`	`glass, not that wlan positioning isn't cool...`
`23:30.05`	`glass`	`jku: it wasnt that`
`23:30.05`	`jku`	`<PROTECTED>`
`23:30.24`	`glass`	`yeah.. saying such a thing when you're pinpointing your location by hand is just bs`
`23:30.29`	`jku`	`vrirtual gps, I mean`
`23:30.38`	`jku`	`god, I can't spell`
`23:31.08`	`glass`	`dunno if they've added some cellid or something positioning to it now`
`23:31.11`	`glass`	`probably not`
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`23:31.22`	`jku`	`glass, yes, that's it`
`23:31.34`	`glass`	`jku: have they added it to iphone? it didn't ship with it`
`23:31.51`	`jku`	`haven't seen it, but so I've understood`
`23:31.59`	`glass`	`googlemaps on mobiles has it`
`23:32.22`	`Stskeeps`	`on the ones that let you get cell id, probably :P`
`23:32.27`	`t_s_o`	`btw, is it just me or is a increasing number of pages providing special iphone layouts? talk about mindshare...`
`23:32.31`	`glass`	`Stskeeps: ye`
`23:32.43`	`Stskeeps`	`and then it takes a big db of cell id -> location, which for some reason is hard to get in some EU countries (denmark)`
`23:32.43`	`glass`	`t_s_o: it's to be in the hype..`
`23:32.46`	`Stskeeps`	`:P`
`23:32.52`	`Stskeeps`	`which makes it even more useless`
`23:32.59`	`glass`	`Stskeeps: it's hard to get anywhere where the operator isn't willing to give you the db`
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`23:33.06`	`\|tbb\|`	`gnight all`
`23:33.17`	`jku`	`glass, just checked: both iphone and touch support wlan positioning`
`23:33.26`	`Stskeeps`	`now, if we were talking RSS & tower IDs, we might be talking`
`23:33.27`	`Stskeeps`	`:P`
`23:33.54`	`glass`	`jku: ok's`
`23:33.59`	`Stskeeps`	`hrm. reminds me, i should try out the n800 and see if it's even remotely suitable for wlan positioning`
`23:34.12`	`jku`	`Stskeeps, I'm ahead of you...`
`23:34.17`	`jku`	`it is`
`23:34.37`	`Stskeeps`	`sounds good - how sensitive is it?`
`23:35.11`	`jku`	`sensitive in what?`
`23:35.16`	`jku`	`seeing networks?`
`23:35.44`	`Stskeeps`	`well, wlan positioning quality usually depends on the sensitivity/quality of the RSS value :)`
`23:37.20`	`jku`	`it looks fine, but I didn't actually use it yet -- in urban areas there are so many networks that just stupid triangulation is fairly usable`
`23:37.43`	`Stskeeps`	`nod`
`23:37.58`	`jku`	`this is with an extremely stupid positioning algo;`
`23:38.10`	`jku`	`http://maps.google.fi/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=fi&msa=0&msid=103576186623008880757.0004455aea7187c72b5f2&z=17`
`23:38.17`	`Stskeeps`	`i worked as a student programmer on a WLAN/DECT positioning project for 3 years, hence my wierd questions :P`
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`23:39.32`	`jku`	`I had 10 control locations, only 5 are shown, but the rest were similar: ~45m difference to GPS`
`23:39.48`	`Stskeeps`	`nod`
`23:40.15`	`jku`	`I imagine using signal quality should get to around 30 which is what skyhook et al advertize`
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