| 00:00.16 | hillct | depends what you're doing I suppose |
| 00:00.26 | hillct | anyway... |
| 00:00.32 | fysa | for 80% of users who don't know what root means |
| 00:00.59 | alterego | You really think that 80% of maemo users _don't_ know what 'root' means .. |
| 00:01.06 | fysa | yes. |
| 00:01.18 | alterego | I think that's naive. Sure, in the future it should be like that but it's blatantly not the case now .. |
| 00:01.23 | fysa | you don't think they can make a market out of people with linux/unix knowledge, do you? |
| 00:01.25 | hillct | users are - on the whole - stupid |
| 00:01.38 | fysa | it's naive to think most maemo users are as savvy as us. |
| 00:02.05 | alterego | I still think the highest selling point is the fact it runs Linux for a lot of people. |
| 00:02.07 | hillct | what's truly iritating though.... |
| 00:02.14 | fysa | certainly, but that's a different market |
| 00:02.22 | alterego | That's the current market. |
| 00:02.28 | fysa | according to? |
| 00:02.34 | alterego | My guess |
| 00:02.34 | tontsa | atleast over here n8x0 is marketed as ebook reader/webbrowser/media player |
| 00:02.47 | hillct | is I was asked to help a neighbor yesterday, with her Vista PC. I hadn't used Windoze since Win2K |
| 00:02.50 | hillct | scary |
| 00:02.52 | hillct | very scary |
| 00:03.03 | fysa | you can't market this as a linux device, no one would buy it and they couldn't afford to produce it. |
| 00:03.16 | alterego | Who said anything about marketing? |
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| 00:03.31 | hillct | I'm suprised they can afford to produce it as is... |
| 00:03.34 | tank-man | only marketing i've seen is word of mouth |
| 00:03.49 | alterego | I'm trying to point out that the majority of current maemo users probably know what 'root' is. |
| 00:03.49 | *** join/#maemo pdz- (n=paul@135.14.169.217.in-addr.arpa) |
| 00:03.56 | fysa | here is how it works: 1) identify the desired market 2) produce for the desired market 3) market for the desired market 4) sell to the desired market -- if 4 doesn't work, adjust #2 or #3 |
| 00:04.04 | alterego | I'd say 80% of maemo users know what 'root' is. Which is the opposite of what you said. |
| 00:04.07 | fysa | look at who they are marketing to, and you will see who they WANT to sell it to. |
| 00:04.18 | fysa | they may know the word 'root' |
| 00:04.32 | fysa | but they don't know that if someone can gain root on your device, they can access /media/mmc1, /home/user, /media/mmc2 |
| 00:04.39 | fysa | browser cache |
| 00:04.45 | fysa | email account settings |
| 00:04.50 | alterego | They can do that as 'user' .. |
| 00:04.51 | hillct | alterego: you're probably correct but that's only due to a failure of marketing, not a function of the adverage inteligence of consumer electronics customers |
| 00:05.15 | fysa | my point is that leaving root open is a bad idea. |
| 00:05.16 | alterego | hillct, sure. But that's not really the point :P |
| 00:05.22 | alterego | Yes, I agree. |
| 00:05.25 | fysa | because most people don't understand the implications. |
| 00:05.27 | alterego | Leaving root open is a bad idea :) |
| 00:05.28 | hillct | alterego: I know |
| 00:05.47 | hillct | I was just trying to be Agreeable :) |
| 00:05.51 | alterego | Hah |
| 00:05.59 | alterego | Agreeable with a capital 'A'! :D |
| 00:06.09 | hillct | hey |
| 00:06.20 | hillct | at least I spelled it correctly |
| 00:06.35 | hillct | remember, the average inteligence of consumer electronics customers... |
| 00:06.43 | alterego | I think we all know that Nokia want the internet tablets to be mass market devices for everyone. And in the future I think they've got a good chance. The platform has matured greatly over the past 3 years. |
| 00:07.16 | alterego | The biggest problem for them, from what I can see. Is the amount of quality software. |
| 00:07.32 | hillct | and the maturity of Voip |
| 00:07.34 | fysa | definitely. |
| 00:08.15 | hillct | It took Palm a at least 4 years to develop a large enough developer base |
| 00:08.27 | alterego | I'm thinking they'll probably need to employ a few more application developers to beef up their software list. |
| 00:08.36 | hillct | they went through three generations of hardware in that time |
| 00:08.46 | shackan | it's too bad there's ie. a webcam and no way to make video calls (unless you have gtalk, but I know nobody who does) |
| 00:08.51 | alterego | hillct, sounds quite similar to how Nokia are moving now. |
| 00:09.00 | alterego | Though the N8X0's are pretty much the same generation. |
| 00:09.03 | hillct | pretty much |
| 00:09.06 | alterego | Actually, scrap that. |
| 00:09.16 | alterego | The N810 is the next gen, it has a keyboard and GPS. |
| 00:09.26 | hillct | er pretty much the same growth pattern |
| 00:09.31 | alterego | I'd say that's enough to push it into the next stage of evolution. |
| 00:09.36 | hillct | without the extra investment in hardware |
| 00:09.36 | tontsa | .. where the GPS is totally botched |
| 00:09.47 | alterego | I disagree. |
| 00:09.50 | alterego | I think the GPS sounds good. |
| 00:09.58 | alterego | But I don't have an N810 .. Yet .. |
| 00:10.00 | tontsa | it sounds good, but it doesn't work in real life |
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| 00:10.09 | alterego | O_o |
| 00:10.12 | alterego | How so? |
| 00:10.18 | tontsa | atleast i still haven't been able to lock on more than 3 satellites with it |
| 00:10.31 | tontsa | and when comparing to bluetooth gps dongle it just sucks |
| 00:10.40 | alterego | There have been a few complaints. But I've also heard people that are very happy with it. |
| 00:11.27 | lopz | hola |
| 00:11.43 | tontsa | well it's totally unusable atleast in urban environment, where the nokia's regular gps dongle performs just fine |
| 00:12.15 | alterego | I'd guess they use the same reciever .. |
| 00:12.54 | tontsa | no clue what chip is inside n810, but it's bad. or the antenna is bad |
| 00:13.05 | alterego | It's not bad. |
| 00:13.09 | alterego | It's a good chip. |
| 00:14.04 | alterego | Hmm, VM's are quite a bit slower when running under 64 bit hipervisor :/ |
| 00:14.12 | alterego | Great .. Another damn reinstall -_- |
| 00:15.01 | tontsa | well you need one more level of pagetables to support 64bit so it doesn't come as a huge surprise |
| 00:15.56 | alterego | It seems _very_ sluggish .. |
| 00:16.19 | tontsa | you prolly run some onboard SATA right? |
| 00:16.46 | alterego | A single SATA 250G drive. |
| 00:17.21 | alterego | I don't see what that has to do with a performance hit when moving from 32 to 64 bit :P |
| 00:17.35 | tontsa | yeah could be the disk access too then, atleast in my experience the ich5/6 drivers suck in 64bit |
| 00:18.05 | alterego | Wouldn't that effect my host system as well? |
| 00:18.19 | tontsa | yep |
| 00:18.34 | alterego | Well, my host system seems to run fine .. |
| 00:19.01 | tontsa | why did you switch to 64bit? |
| 00:19.08 | alterego | Felt like it .. |
| 00:19.18 | alterego | Seems a waste having a 64 bit CPU and not using it :P |
| 00:19.53 | tontsa | well if you have intel or amd "64" bit cpu then it's just few registers that are 64bit, otherwise it's pretty much illusion |
| 00:20.03 | tontsa | and you only see real benefit in math intensive stuff |
| 00:20.14 | alterego | Hmm, |
| 00:20.21 | alterego | Yeah. It's a Core2Duo |
| 00:21.12 | tontsa | otherwise it's just waste to have 4 megabyte block sized memory compared to 4kilobyte units.. unless of course you have more than 16 gigs and wanna use it well |
| 00:21.59 | alterego | So you think it's pointless using 64 distro then? |
| 00:22.07 | elb | you can use 64-bit instructions without using 4MB pages |
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| 00:22.12 | elb | those two things are orthogonal |
| 00:22.42 | tontsa | yeah you can, but the benefit is marginal in most real life situations |
| 00:23.15 | elb | x86-64 is definitely a pile of tradeoffs, though ... you get quite a few more general purpose registers (relative to the anemic x86 instruction set), but you double the size of pointers and have longer instructions |
| 00:23.23 | alterego | I should probably run some benchmarks to be sure really. |
| 00:23.30 | tontsa | alterago, atleast i think so. if you don't have more than 16 gigs of memory of specific tasks where you need the memory or "math" bandwidth |
| 00:23.47 | alterego | Okay |
| 00:23.47 | elb | very few things actually benefit from 64-bit math, yeah |
| 00:23.55 | elb | but you *do* get more registers |
| 00:23.57 | elb | which is Good |
| 00:24.20 | alterego | But you get slow hipervised VM's .. Which is bad .. |
| 00:24.34 | alterego | I plan on using KVM extensively. |
| 00:25.18 | elb | I don't know why that would be the case, particularly, but I don't follow the VM scene, so it may be |
| 00:25.38 | alterego | It's a _lot_ slower .. |
| 00:25.47 | tontsa | i'm guessing you need to restore more state between the VMs when in 64bit |
| 00:26.38 | alterego | Yes, that would be my guess too. |
| 00:26.50 | elb | of course -- if nothing else, you have 4x or more data in the register file |
| 00:26.57 | alterego | Though, I wouldn't have thought it would have created this much over head. |
| 00:27.03 | elb | but I don't know what that would make it a "_lot_" slower -- there must be more to it |
| 00:27.19 | alterego | This is a 32bit guest in a 64bit hipervisor. |
| 00:33.14 | derf | Any software that uses enough pointers that doubling them matters much deserves what it gets. |
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| 00:34.28 | halley | It's usually not the 64bit math but the 64bit memory. |
| 00:35.48 | halley | I can *easily* fill 2GB or even 20GB with image data. I work with jet engine engineering routines that need many gigs of lookup tables. |
| 00:36.24 | derf | Yeah, no kidding. |
| 00:36.45 | derf | But most of that data isn't pointers! |
| 00:37.26 | derf | I find my software tends to run quite a bit faster on 64-bit systems. |
| 00:37.39 | alterego | Do you use KVM or Xen? |
| 00:37.43 | derf | No. |
| 00:37.48 | alterego | What processor? |
| 00:37.55 | hillct | fysa: gainroot worked like a champ |
| 00:38.04 | derf | Doesn't matter. |
| 00:38.17 | alterego | I'm just curious :P |
| 00:38.29 | derf | Well, I first noticed it on the original 64-bit Athlons. |
| 00:38.38 | hillct | still not clear on why I was able to login as root without it or R&D mode using OS2007. Guess it doesn't much matter |
| 00:38.43 | alterego | What kind of apps do you normally run? |
| 00:38.48 | derf | But it holds just as well on the Core2's. |
| 00:38.58 | derf | alterego: I'm talking about software I write. |
| 00:39.03 | alterego | Ah |
| 00:39.12 | derf | I don't benchmark random applications. |
| 00:39.28 | alterego | I can't say I've noticed much performance difference between 32 and 64 on this, (except the virtualization stuff) |
| 00:39.45 | alterego | It all seems fast to me ^_^ |
| 00:40.01 | alterego | Considering my previous machine was a crappy old 1.2Ghz Sempron |
| 00:40.09 | derf | Well, the typical desktop user's CPU spends 99% of its time idle. |
| 00:40.22 | alterego | Yes, I've noticed that ^_^ |
| 00:40.31 | alterego | My graph applet is all black .. |
| 00:41.29 | alterego | Looks like I'm gonna have to use express delivery if I want my N810 before Christmas now .. |
| 00:41.43 | alterego | That's provided the codes are activated before the 19th. |
| 00:42.07 | derf | I'd very much like to get mine by then, since I'm going out of town on the 26th. |
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| 00:42.50 | alterego | I'd love to get it by Christmas eve .. As I tend to get drunk and lost a lot at that time of year ^_^ |
| 00:44.05 | shackan | and what on earth would you do while drunk on a tablet? |
| 00:44.13 | zerojay | Do what I did. |
| 00:44.19 | zerojay | Drunk dial from the bar. |
| 00:44.22 | zerojay | Over and over again. |
| 00:44.30 | hillct | use it to watch porn of course... |
| 00:44.35 | shackan | you sir, are a major nerd |
| 00:44.46 | zerojay | me? |
| 00:44.54 | pupnik | alcohol+tablet = dropped tablet :/ |
| 00:45.45 | steri | still no canola2 :( |
| 00:46.01 | hillct | maybe they need a loop for a lanyard in the next hardware so it can reliably be used when drunk |
| 00:46.16 | hillct | because after all, that's when the GPS is most valuable |
| 00:46.17 | alterego | Luckily the drops my tablet has had to endure have been very soft landings :) |
| 00:47.52 | Andy80 | ih |
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| 01:19.09 | Toma- | Does anyone know if a 6110 navigator can be used with a 770 as a GPS device? |
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| 02:19.24 | zapada | does vnc work well on the n800? |
| 02:19.46 | zapada | and does x forwarding work on the n800? |
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| 03:27.49 | GAN800 | Anybody else having issues with the desktop crashing when a bluetooth keyboard wakes from sleep? |
| 03:37.31 | *** join/#maemo thoughtfix (n=thoughtf@ip68-3-71-161.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 03:38.46 | GAN800 | Well hello there, thoughtfix. Unusual to see you 'round this neck of the woods. :) |
| 03:39.02 | thoughtfix | Nah... I've been trying to IRC more |
| 03:39.39 | GAN800 | It's a good place to be. ;) |
| 03:39.57 | thoughtfix | That and you all keep me company while I am without an N810 |
| 03:39.58 | thoughtfix | hehe |
| 03:40.51 | GAN800 | Haha, had to send it back to Nokia then, I suppose? |
| 03:41.47 | thoughtfix | Yeah |
| 03:41.51 | thoughtfix | It was a pre-release, after all |
| 03:42.10 | GAN800 | The N800 is a better machine anyway. ;) |
| 03:42.17 | thoughtfix | Mmm ... Not for mobile blogging |
| 03:42.22 | thoughtfix | and I want one for the CES show floor |
| 03:42.35 | thoughtfix | The N800 is a better media machine, to be sure. |
| 03:42.37 | halley | Isn't that in March or something? |
| 03:42.45 | thoughtfix | CES? Second week of January |
| 03:42.54 | halley | Oh, earlier than I thought. |
| 03:43.06 | halley | I guess I needed a thought fix. |
| 03:43.07 | halley | ;) |
| 03:44.06 | thoughtfix | Hahaha |
| 03:44.19 | thoughtfix | Want to know how I came by "thoughtfix?" |
| 03:44.20 | halley | Is there a way to package things up into install debs ON the device? Scratchbox isn't for OSX. |
| 03:44.40 | thoughtfix | .... Parallels or VMWare? ;) |
| 03:44.43 | thoughtfix | <3 parallels |
| 03:45.29 | halley | I guess that's an option but ugh. |
| 03:45.54 | pupnik | yes thoughtfix |
| 03:46.55 | thoughtfix | Parallels or VMWare will give you a native dev environment for Scratchbox. |
| 03:46.59 | thoughtfix | :) |
| 03:47.26 | thoughtfix | pupnik: I started googling, then punching stuff through thesaurus sites, and more. |
| 03:47.32 | thoughtfix | Thoughtfix had zero google results |
| 03:47.36 | thoughtfix | So I kept it |
| 03:48.06 | halley | The 2000's equivalent of the 'Grateful Dead' story. |
| 03:48.10 | *** join/#maemo ol_schoola (n=meatwad@c-67-162-50-202.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 03:48.29 | thoughtfix | haha |
| 03:48.53 | shackan | oh, thoughtfix in "person" |
| 03:49.06 | thoughtfix | You say that like I am famous |
| 03:49.07 | thoughtfix | heh |
| 03:49.16 | halley | I guess the question now is, is that "fix" like "spay"? |
| 03:49.26 | GAN800 | That's not far from the truth around here. :P |
| 03:49.30 | thoughtfix | <-- trying to be just another guy of the community.... Except one who bugs PR people more :D |
| 03:49.36 | thoughtfix | Yes... the words were "brain neuter" |
| 03:49.39 | thoughtfix | ;) |
| 03:50.26 | halley | 思直 |
| 03:50.52 | ol_schoola | not in front of the children halley |
| 03:51.00 | thoughtfix | :o |
| 03:51.03 | thoughtfix | What was that? |
| 03:51.35 | halley | utf-8 kanji: omou naosu, or thought fix. |
| 03:51.57 | thoughtfix | Now I have to save it :) |
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| 03:52.16 | thefool | any word on the canola release? |
| 03:52.18 | shackan | thoughtfix: I just rehashed your n800 disassembly video a couple of days ago to see if there's any possibility to mod it into a different case + a homemade keyboard, since I have an unused leather 'box' (it's like a wallet, but rigid) at home which fits the n800 perfectly |
| 03:52.39 | halley | Hm, is there poetic justice if "canola" is to "slip"? |
| 03:52.55 | shackan | thefool: no, sorry, now pull your pants on please |
| 03:53.01 | thefool | lol |
| 03:53.03 | ol_schoola | thoughtfix: tramp-stamp! |
| 03:53.12 | thoughtfix | rofl |
| 03:53.43 | thoughtfix | My brain/tool logo is my next tattoo ... going under my collar (brain stem!) |
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| 03:54.26 | thoughtfix | shackan: I think it's possible to build your own case but it won't be as secure. |
| 03:54.44 | shackan | yeah, I tought that |
| 03:54.48 | thoughtfix | halley: Slip as in "leak out?" |
| 03:55.06 | GAN800 | I'd be worried about durability with a custom case. |
| 03:55.14 | halley | slip as in canola oil slick, or slip as in schedule shift |
| 03:55.53 | GAN800 | Can you imagine them shipping canola oil around in super-tankers? |
| 03:55.54 | thoughtfix | GAN800: Exactly - I'd worry about ANY flex. That board is not made to bend |
| 03:55.56 | shackan | thoughtfix: the thing would be closed with a zip (so pieces won't fly accidentally) when not in use and then would hold open like a microlaptop, at least that's what I had in mind |
| 03:56.08 | shackan | s/hold/fold/ |
| 03:56.41 | GAN800 | Mobile devices tend to be designed to put stress on the case, a custom case is going to put stress right on the device componentsw |
| 03:56.44 | GAN800 | which is bad. |
| 03:57.37 | thoughtfix | shackan: Could be a challenge. |
| 03:57.40 | halley | I've not really seen the N810 as being delicate. Slippery as a bar of wet soap, yes. Delicate, not really. |
| 03:57.42 | GAN800 | To make up for the fact that you're never actually going to get yours, pupnik? :P |
| 03:58.36 | ol_schoola | thoughtfix: speaking of slippery/wet, i should dig up thte irc log detailing my n800's unplanned swimming trip |
| 03:58.42 | thoughtfix | Why mournfully? |
| 03:58.52 | thoughtfix | What happened? |
| 03:59.02 | ol_schoola | lemme find the log.... |
| 03:59.14 | halley | Who owns the infobot? They should be shot. |
| 03:59.16 | pupnik | it rolled down the stairs |
| 03:59.22 | pupnik | infobot is fine |
| 03:59.22 | GAN800 | ol_schoola, it did come out OK in the end, right? |
| 03:59.29 | ol_schoola | i'll do a re-write as an after action report |
| 03:59.30 | shackan | pupnik: ...and ? |
| 03:59.32 | ol_schoola | yes it lives |
| 03:59.46 | pupnik | thoughtfix: well .. things aint so hot over here. |
| 03:59.52 | GAN800 | It's the anti-botism channel here. |
| 04:00.41 | GAN800 | First _Monkey, now infobot . . . where will it end?! |
| 04:01.50 | shackan | resistance in futile |
| 04:01.56 | shackan | s/in/is/ |
| 04:02.00 | shackan | see? |
| 04:02.10 | thefool | hey..I like that |
| 04:02.41 | thefool | s/../... |
| 04:02.55 | GAN800 | close it |
| 04:02.57 | thefool | s/\.\./\.\.\. |
| 04:03.06 | thefool | s/../.../ |
| 04:03.27 | thoughtfix | s/".."/"/..." |
| 04:03.30 | thoughtfix | Recurse |
| 04:03.31 | thoughtfix | loop |
| 04:03.34 | thoughtfix | destroy world |
| 04:03.40 | thoughtfix | "It was a bad period day" |
| 04:04.20 | halley | s/shot/`rm -rf \/`/e |
| 04:05.37 | ol_schoola | found it! it is at 07:40 http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2007-12-05.log.html |
| 04:05.57 | zerojay | If you need a bot to tell you what s/foo/bar means, you're in the wrong channel. :) |
| 04:06.31 | pupnik | anybody know where N810s are manufactured? |
| 04:06.52 | halley | ol_schoola, er, no timestamps? |
| 04:07.06 | shackan | pupnik: wanna grab one off a truck leaving the factory? :D |
| 04:07.37 | pupnik | curous about costs, exchange rates, how much the dollar slide will hurt N810 sales etc |
| 04:07.55 | pupnik | but it's probably sekrit |
| 04:08.07 | ol_schoola | halley: stamps are on the right side |
| 04:08.27 | halley | Oh, quality html. |
| 04:08.42 | thoughtfix | That is a big log there |
| 04:11.18 | halley | Sounds like a very long process to dry it out. Some folks say "stick it in a toaster oven" but low pressure is better than elevated heat. Put it on the SUCTION side of a large housefan for an hour. Voila. |
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| 04:14.47 | *** join/#maemo Dregz (n=Dregs@unaffiliated/dregz) |
| 04:15.04 | pupnik | or a lab-grade dessicator |
| 04:15.17 | pupnik | well ... vacuum might break something :) |
| 04:15.29 | pupnik | insects do amazingly well in a vacuum btw |
| 04:16.20 | dragorn | pupnik: problem w/ your 810? |
| 04:21.42 | unique311 | the internet is boring now. random |
| 04:23.56 | ol_schoola | sorry bout that, Mr Plow came around. we have a deal -- he steps in for a cuppa, i get to do the cul-de-sac |
| 04:24.41 | ol_schoola | the biggest frontend loader i've ever operated, has a full size plow on it |
| 04:25.42 | ol_schoola | pupnik: would have if i could. the QA/shipping were i used to work had all the enviro chambers. neat stuff |
| 04:28.06 | pupnik | the internet is going to get very exciting in about 1/2 hour :) ~T-E-A P-A-R-T-Y!~ :D :D :D |
| 04:29.28 | zerojay | ? |
| 04:29.40 | dragorn | if that's anything like lemonparty, get out now :P |
| 04:29.47 | *** join/#maemo Tuco (n=Y@pool-71-125-248-50.nycmny.east.verizon.net) |
| 04:30.15 | halley | I'm thinking more like Boston Tea Party. |
| 04:30.41 | thoughtfix | Teaparty? |
| 04:31.10 | dragorn | I suppose I should try to find out what this packet corruption nonsense people are complaining about is |
| 04:35.12 | pupnik | http://ronpaulgraphs.com/yesterday_vs_today_line.html You can watch history being made tomorrow here... :) |
| 04:35.27 | pupnik | 25 minutes to blastoff :) |
| 04:35.41 | shackan | history? |
| 04:35.45 | shackan | am I missing something? |
| 04:35.58 | pupnik | A new record for campaign donations |
| 04:36.25 | shackan | mkay |
| 04:36.27 | shackan | so what? |
| 04:36.51 | lopz | bye |
| 04:37.04 | shackan | pupnik: 100k is a drop in the water for a presidential campaign |
| 04:38.17 | pupnik | This is just the first breeze before the storm. :) Those first wafts of wind. Blastoff in 22 minutes :) |
| 04:38.56 | halley | Nullifying *!n=pupnik@*.pools.arcor-ip.net for 1 hour. |
| 04:39.00 | shackan | WAAAT happens in 22 minutes? |
| 04:39.10 | shackan | 21... |
| 04:39.53 | GAN800 | It's #maemo, halley. |
| 04:39.56 | GAN800 | We discuss a lot of things. |
| 04:40.00 | shackan | and I'm curious |
| 04:40.58 | halley | It's not a discussion, it's fanboi politics. |
| 04:41.39 | GAN800 | Pfft |
| 04:41.48 | GAN800 | Only because you write it off as such. |
| 04:41.52 | zerojay | So why do we need to know that you have him "nullifiied" then? |
| 04:42.03 | zerojay | Who cares? |
| 04:42.07 | *** part/#maemo halley (n=halley@ip72-209-15-92.ri.ri.cox.net) |
| 04:42.16 | thoughtfix | Okay |
| 04:42.16 | thoughtfix | so |
| 04:42.25 | *** join/#maemo FMz (n=keith@adsl-70-245-232-195.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net) |
| 04:42.28 | thoughtfix | Ever see that movie Twins? |
| 04:42.34 | pupnik | nope |
| 04:42.36 | zerojay | Long time ago. |
| 04:42.43 | thoughtfix | Danny DeVito and some big guy who spoke funny? |
| 04:42.44 | thoughtfix | Anyway |
| 04:42.49 | shackan | with schwarzie? |
| 04:43.01 | thoughtfix | Let's take the "genetic material" from all the male candidates |
| 04:43.07 | thoughtfix | And make a supercandidate |
| 04:43.11 | thoughtfix | and implant it in Hillary |
| 04:43.21 | zerojay | Didn't the Nazis already try that? |
| 04:43.29 | thoughtfix | rofl |
| 04:43.53 | shackan | zerojay: I tought dna was discovered in the sixties |
| 04:44.21 | zerojay | shackan: Oh, so you think the Nazis just kind of went away after 1945? |
| 04:44.38 | shackan | uhmmm |
| 04:44.54 | zerojay | Hillary's 200 years old, so that's not a problem. |
| 04:45.14 | shackan | ok, this doesn't make any sense |
| 04:45.25 | zerojay | Anyone else see that page of horrible Hillary pics? Just hilarious. |
| 04:45.26 | shackan | at least Godwin was proven right once again.. |
| 04:45.29 | zerojay | None touched up. |
| 04:45.54 | zerojay | Just taken at the worse possible times when she's got her mouth wide open... that sort of thing. |
| 04:48.46 | pupnik | structure of dna was watson and crick, they knew about it before then though |
| 04:49.31 | thoughtfix | Mmm |
| 04:49.33 | thoughtfix | she may be old |
| 04:49.36 | thoughtfix | but I'd still hit it |
| 04:49.38 | pupnik | thoughtfix: the gps performance in your vid seemed pretty good. Surprised by the number of complaints about it |
| 04:49.48 | zerojay | thoughtfix: With a baseball bat, maybe. |
| 04:49.56 | thoughtfix | pupnik: The performance is good but lock-on times are still slow. |
| 04:50.19 | pupnik | did the contest for the n810 video end yet? |
| 04:50.55 | thoughtfix | Yep... And some contestants have their prizes already |
| 04:51.01 | zerojay | Is Reggie still going through with that idea that the ITT community will vote for someone to get a free N810? |
| 04:51.03 | thoughtfix | I hope the winner gets her N810 soon |
| 04:51.24 | dragorn | pupnik: My 810 gps is disappointing |
| 04:51.54 | dragorn | pupnik: Another friends took an hour to get a lock, too. But I'm used to a sirf3, I don't know what's in there |
| 04:53.43 | pupnik | who won? i can't find the poll atm |
| 04:56.12 | thoughtfix | http://tabletblog.com/2007/11/nokia-n810-giveaway-winners-circle.html |
| 04:59.00 | pupnik | her daughter is awesome |
| 04:59.11 | pupnik | "look! music!" <dances> |
| 05:00.51 | pupnik | heeeere weeeee gooooo! :) |
| 05:01.17 | shackan | so, who? |
| 05:02.04 | pupnik | Jennifer, jdsvid |
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| 05:03.09 | shackan | pupnik: I was talking about the election |
| 05:04.06 | pupnik | the moneybomb for Ron Paul has begun :) teaparty07.com |
| 05:04.38 | shackan | oh, fine |
| 05:04.43 | shackan | whatever that means.. |
| 05:06.44 | pupnik | Buon giorno shackan :) |
| 05:06.58 | thoughtfix | Hmm |
| 05:07.12 | thoughtfix | I can find no fault in Ron Paul because I can find no stands he's taken. |
| 05:07.51 | thoughtfix | For or against abortion? For or against gay marriage? Style of educational funding? I can't find it. |
| 05:09.14 | zerojay | I'm glad I don't ever have to think about those questions in Canada. |
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| 05:11.01 | *** join/#maemo oil_ (n=oil@ppp-124.120.8.5.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 05:11.06 | pupnik | ronpaullibrary.org antiwar.com/paul lewrockwell.com/paul ronpaulaudio.com |
| 05:11.12 | pupnik | Holy hell... $15,000 per minute the last couple minutes. |
| 05:11.24 | zerojay | We don't care. |
| 05:11.34 | shackan | seriously |
| 05:19.00 | *** join/#maemo pupnik_ (n=pupnik@dslb-084-059-142-028.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 05:20.32 | GAN800 | thoughfix, if it's not in the Constitution, then he's against it. :)p |
| 05:22.13 | thoughtfix | Hmm |
| 05:23.27 | pupnik_ | Elevation: $200,000, cruising speed: $400,000/hr |
| 05:23.35 | zerojay | ugh... |
| 05:23.57 | GAN800 | You don't need to read it, zerojay. |
| 05:24.08 | GAN800 | Not like anything else important is happening. :P |
| 05:24.46 | thefool | pupnik: he has no chance of actually winning, get over it |
| 05:25.03 | GAN800 | That's a nice attitude |
| 05:25.23 | thoughtfix | Well |
| 05:25.28 | thoughtfix | There's good reason behind it |
| 05:25.33 | thoughtfix | http://www.issues2000.org/Ron_Paul.htm <-- too many things to not like |
| 05:25.39 | thoughtfix | er |
| 05:25.41 | thoughtfix | to dislike |
| 05:25.43 | GAN800 | Like what? |
| 05:26.00 | GAN800 | What's with the hate on personal freedom and responsibility these days? |
| 05:26.15 | GAN800 | Why does the government need to babysit everybody? |
| 05:26.15 | thefool | how about him calling the ICC a threat to our soverneigty |
| 05:26.26 | shackan | pupnik_: I tought elections were won over votes rather than funding |
| 05:26.59 | GAN800 | funding helps to get votes. ;) |
| 05:27.05 | zerojay | My problem is that I just don't see the excitement about giving yet another old white guy money just like every other time before when people that could really use that money, like the homeless are freezing out there during the Christmas holidays. |
| 05:27.09 | GAN800 | You try and run a campaign for president with no money. |
| 05:27.25 | zerojay | And I certainly don't need second by second updates about how much money is being wasted on it either. |
| 05:27.39 | GAN800 | zerojay, the homeless have plenty of opportunities available to them. |
| 05:27.39 | thefool | He is old and ugly, Americans are stupid and shallow. I will say it again; Not a chance! |
| 05:27.54 | GAN800 | There are dozens of shelters in any city of decent size. |
| 05:28.00 | shackan | who has the best hair among the candidates? |
| 05:28.11 | thefool | GAN800: and they are ALL full at ALL times |
| 05:28.17 | pupnik_ | shackan: the news media has been ignoring the campaign, as he is a threat to the vested interests, the political elite, and the corporate welfarists :) The money bomb is a way to show support and get media coverage. |
| 05:28.45 | GAN800 | You have some numbers to back that claim up, thefool? |
| 05:28.49 | thefool | shackan: now thats something Americans would be willing to decide a presidency on |
| 05:29.04 | pupnik_ | http://techpresident.com/scrape_plot/meetup_supporter <<< stats for grassroots support |
| 05:29.08 | thefool | to back what up exactly? |
| 05:29.26 | shackan | thefool: tall guy, best hair, is how it works |
| 05:29.32 | GAN800 | You claim that all shelters are full all the time. |
| 05:29.37 | GAN800 | I disagree |
| 05:29.45 | *** join/#maemo rkaway1 (n=timj@e176193038.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 05:30.00 | GAN800 | Around here, shelters turn away a lot of people because they don't accept you when you're drunk or high. |
| 05:30.02 | thefool | I have allegorical proof... the tall guy best looks that doesn't do something stupid wins the caucus. |
| 05:30.09 | shackan | pupnik_: ok, but those are private citizens, right? not big corporations, it doesn't make sense.. why would they waste their money like that? |
| 05:30.25 | zerojay | Because they think it's going to change things. |
| 05:30.27 | zerojay | It won't. |
| 05:30.31 | pupnik | shackan: it's an investment in future prosperity and liberty |
| 05:30.38 | shackan | ok, wow |
| 05:30.47 | GAN800 | Yes, zerojay, sitting back and taking it is the way to do it. :P |
| 05:30.49 | zerojay | You lost all of that long again. |
| 05:30.51 | zerojay | ago |
| 05:31.01 | thefool | GAN800: ah that I only have allegorical proof on, I am in South Florida. I have visited Atlanta, Georgia and in both I frequently go to homeless shelters to try and help out. |
| 05:31.03 | shackan | pupnik: you're sounding just like an idealistic naive idiot, y'know? |
| 05:31.06 | GAN800 | What's wrong with trying to get it back. |
| 05:31.18 | pupnik | shackan: i know, Dr. Paul cured my apathy! :) |
| 05:31.28 | shackan | sigh, poor soul... |
| 05:31.45 | GAN800 | Attitudes like that are how we got here in the first place. |
| 05:31.51 | thefool | And I always see the shelters shut their doors while there are lines wrapping around the block |
| 05:32.36 | shackan | GAN800: what scares me is that there's actually lots of people like pupnik who rooted for bush, TWICE |
| 05:32.44 | thefool | All in all though, I do think he is one of the better choices, if not the best. |
| 05:33.23 | thefool | shackan: since 2003 I have met about two dozen people that will actually admit to that. |
| 05:33.39 | zerojay | pupnik: Voting for yet another old white guy that's disconnected from the public and giving him money, just like every other time before *is* sitting back and taking it. |
| 05:33.41 | pupnik | shackan: I never supported Bush. thanks |
| 05:33.47 | GAN800 | shackan, are you saying that Paul is another Bush? |
| 05:34.02 | shackan | thefool: because the others are ashamed of their votes? |
| 05:34.06 | GAN800 | zerojay, how is Paul disconnected from the public? |
| 05:34.17 | pupnik | he's stuck in left vs right politics. There is another dimension, freedom vs authoritarianism. |
| 05:34.19 | thefool | shackan: note I said 2003...as in before the election |
| 05:34.29 | GAN800 | "old white guy" sound incredibly racist to me. |
| 05:34.36 | zerojay | GAN800: The same way every other guy in politics is. |
| 05:34.40 | shackan | GAN800: to me it's all the same, I really don't know (living on the old continent and all that) |
| 05:34.50 | thefool | GAN800: oh get over it. It's descriptive |
| 05:34.54 | GAN800 | zerojay, do you know anything about the guy? |
| 05:34.59 | zerojay | GAN800: No, it's not racist, but it's pretty much what you get in presidential races. |
| 05:35.28 | GAN800 | zerojay, you seem to be suggesting that a minority is automatically a better presidential candidate. ;) |
| 05:35.34 | shackan | pupnik: no, I didn't say YOU supported bush, I'm saying there were lots of people enthusiastic about him just like YOU are about ron |
| 05:35.37 | zerojay | GAN800: It's nothing personal against Paul himself. It's the same for everyone in the race. |
| 05:35.38 | thefool | are either of you registered republicans? |
| 05:35.44 | pupnik | ok sorry shackan - no problems :) |
| 05:35.48 | zerojay | GAN800: I'm not saying that either. |
| 05:35.50 | GAN800 | <-registered libertarian |
| 05:36.01 | thefool | and what is Ron Paul running as? |
| 05:36.06 | GAN800 | shackan, so you're saying Paul is another Bush |
| 05:36.21 | shackan | where did I ? |
| 05:36.23 | pupnik | nah don't attack shackan |
| 05:36.45 | zerojay | What I am saying is that it doesn't make sense to vote in another rich old guy and expect him to fight for the middle and lower class, regardless of their platform or who they are. |
| 05:37.00 | zerojay | And that's never going to change. |
| 05:37.04 | pupnik | http://techpresident.com/scrape_plot/meetup_supporter <<< that is votes, shackman. Votes for the primary. |
| 05:37.07 | GAN800 | zerojay, Paul has a track record to back up his politics. |
| 05:37.33 | zerojay | GAN800: Heard it all before in each and every other previous election. |
| 05:37.36 | GAN800 | He's been in Congress for a while, and consistently voted with his stated beliefs the whole time. |
| 05:38.00 | zerojay | These people aren't there for us. |
| 05:38.07 | thefool | zerojay: In all probability you are right, but he has a better chance of making a change than anyone else I see running |
| 05:38.17 | zerojay | thefool: That could be true. |
| 05:38.22 | shackan | I want to re read this log a couple of years into his mandate :D |
| 05:39.10 | zerojay | I have nothing against the man whatsoever, by the way. I'm a Canadian, so I really don't give a shit about who you have running the place so long as they don't decide to attack us. |
| 05:39.22 | shackan | same here |
| 05:39.38 | shackan | 'cept I'm in europe |
| 05:40.19 | zerojay | From what I've seen, Paul seems more down to earth... but I don't think putting him in power is going to automatically change things for the better. |
| 05:40.20 | thefool | zerojay: the US has a surprisingly remarkable ability to drag other countries into the wars we start |
| 05:41.19 | thefool | what we really need is a Supreme Court with some balls |
| 05:41.34 | shackan | but canada doesn't have an army in any case :D |
| 05:41.35 | *** join/#maemo cesman (n=cecil@76.91.116.141) |
| 05:41.41 | zerojay | thefool: It's because the US was held in such high regard, so people were willing to join the fight if it bought them brownie points, but it looks like that regard has been lost quite a while ago, unfortunately. |
| 05:41.42 | thefool | um yea they do |
| 05:41.43 | GAN800 | We need a government that's set up and run as the constitution intended. |
| 05:41.52 | pupnik | thefool: and an understanding of the original intent of the constitution :) |
| 05:42.01 | thefool | zerojay: yet isn't canada still in Iraq? |
| 05:42.12 | pupnik | "We have given you a republic... if you can keep it." - Benjamin Franklin |
| 05:42.16 | zerojay | shackan: We have an army.. and the last time the US tried to invade Canada, they got their asses kicked. |
| 05:42.23 | zerojay | thefool: Canada never went to Iraq. |
| 05:42.27 | shackan | zerojay: I know :) |
| 05:42.56 | thefool | pupnik: "I can not overly stress the danger of the word 'party'" -Benjamin Franklin |
| 05:42.57 | zerojay | thefool: Canada was against the war in Iraq and never joined. |
| 05:43.10 | thefool | hmm, my mistake good for you |
| 05:43.28 | thefool | I was pretty sure I read something on BBC about canadian troops |
| 05:43.42 | zerojay | thefool: Maybe Canadian peacekeepers. |
| 05:43.52 | thefool | not in Iraq |
| 05:43.54 | zerojay | Canada is in Afghanistan. |
| 05:44.03 | *** join/#maemo l7 (n=l7@evil-wire.org) |
| 05:44.05 | thefool | why? |
| 05:44.17 | thefool | trying to rebuild it? |
| 05:44.25 | zerojay | Peacekeeping missions as far as I remember. |
| 05:44.33 | zerojay | Whatever that means. |
| 05:44.42 | *** part/#maemo GAN800 (n=user@pdpc/supporter/active/generalantilles) |
| 05:45.19 | thefool | Usually I admire peacekeeping missions. But it seems they backfire in the Middle-East as the Peacekeepers tend to do a lot of shooting |
| 05:45.51 | zerojay | Well, when you ignore them telling you that they don't want you there, they tend to get upset. :) |
| 05:46.59 | thefool | Thats why peacekeepers are supposed to go into an area only at the behest of the goverments |
| 05:47.47 | thefool | Anyways... |
| 05:48.04 | thefool | What is Ron Paul running as? A republican or a libertarian? |
| 05:48.10 | doc|home | republican... |
| 05:48.23 | penguinbait | its bizare eh?? |
| 05:48.40 | thefool | he is a republican member of congress |
| 05:48.49 | penguinbait | I watched the debates and wondered why ron paul was at the wrong one |
| 05:48.50 | doc|home | not really, that's what a real conservative used to be |
| 05:49.10 | doc|home | what you see in the republican party now is mostly neoconservatives |
| 05:49.19 | doc|home | which is little different to democrats |
| 05:49.20 | thefool | and he is a strict isolationist |
| 05:49.25 | doc|home | no he's not |
| 05:49.26 | thefool | which is simply stupid |
| 05:49.30 | thefool | no? |
| 05:49.32 | doc|home | he's an non-interventionist |
| 05:49.42 | thefool | So called free trade deals and world governmental organizations like the International Criminal Court (ICC), NAFTA, GATT, WTO, and CAFTA are a threat to our independence as a nation. They transfer power from our government to unelected foreign elites. |
| 05:49.42 | doc|home | yes, because being in Iraq was oh so smart |
| 05:49.53 | doc|home | it's not at all isolating the US, nope, not in the slightest |
| 05:50.11 | thefool | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:50.26 | doc|home | thefool: vincente fox has already said on tv that that was the plan |
| 05:50.30 | *** join/#maemo Vulc|Sleeps (n=Sporks@ool-43566062.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 05:50.40 | thefool | We must withdraw from any organizations and trade deals that infringe upon the freedom and independence of the United States of America. |
| 05:50.40 | doc|home | and that chavez put a spanner in the works for that |
| 05:51.11 | doc|home | are you even reading what I'm saying? :) |
| 05:51.25 | thefool | now I am |
| 05:51.28 | Vulc|Sleeps | [00:50:44] <thefool> We must withdraw from any organizations and trade deals that infringe upon the freedom and independence of the United States of America. -- the United States of America infringes upon the freedom and independance of The United States of America. |
| 05:51.34 | pupnik | absolutely, that's government managed trade, thefool - and in particular a danger of international agencies and bodies managing trade and usurping national law |
| 05:51.43 | pupnik | free trade != managed trade |
| 05:52.06 | shackan | thefool: while you're at it, could you withdraw from the countries you've invaded too? thanks |
| 05:52.19 | pupnik | that's the plan shackan ! |
| 05:52.44 | shackan | pupnik: including all the nato military bases on foreign soil |
| 05:52.50 | thefool | pupnik: no that is not goverment managed trade |
| 05:52.59 | pupnik | yep! :) Dr. Paul is the only candidate for you. |
| 05:53.03 | doc|home | thefool: of course these foreign armies aren't costing any money at all (a trillion a year) and aren't devaluing the dollar at all (17% this year) |
| 05:53.14 | thefool | pupnik: goverment managed trade is what we have right now, where a congress intitutes legal monopolies |
| 05:53.30 | doc|home | thefool: which nafta cafta etc encourage |
| 05:53.32 | pupnik | right, that's bad too thefool |
| 05:53.46 | thefool | pupnik: no really? |
| 05:53.47 | zerojay | I find it kind of funny how there's such an anti-immigration thing going on in the US.. as if 95% of the people there weren't immigrants themselves. |
| 05:53.47 | Vulc|Sleeps | pupnik: Too bad Ronnie is insane... |
| 05:53.51 | penguinbait | 7 years |
| 05:53.52 | thefool | but the WTO is a good thing |
| 05:53.54 | shackan | like the monopoly on health care.. |
| 05:54.04 | thefool | and the ICC is a great thing. It needs more support not less |
| 05:54.25 | doc|home | Vulc|Bleh: it's sad when *he's* the insane one, when that's what the country has come to |
| 05:54.38 | doc|home | because giuliani is better, or hillary. ugh |
| 05:54.45 | Vulc|Bleh | He'd be fine, if not for all the religeous stuff. |
| 05:54.46 | thefool | doc|home: in case you didn't know I totally agree that we have no buisiness invading soviergn countries |
| 05:54.50 | Vulc|Bleh | ALL of the candidates are idiots |
| 05:54.55 | shackan | oh, rudy's running as well? |
| 05:55.01 | *** join/#maemo Tuco (n=Y@pool-71-125-248-50.nycmny.east.verizon.net) |
| 05:55.02 | doc|home | Vulc|Bleh: erm, he's not that openly religious |
| 05:55.41 | doc|home | he's personally religious, but that's about it |
| 05:55.41 | pupnik | And Romney, our Berlusconi :) |
| 05:55.41 | Vulc|Bleh | Doc: Yeah, but some of his views represent the one syou would associate about that. But not as many as, say, the other republicans |
| 05:55.46 | shackan | pupnik: oh wow, you have YOUR OWN berlusconi now? |
| 05:56.04 | pupnik | shackan: yeah Romney just bought clearchannel communications, with 1000 radio stations |
| 05:56.04 | shackan | pupnik: is he a mafioso as well? |
| 05:56.06 | doc|home | Vulc|Bleh: can ou rephrase that please? |
| 05:56.11 | doc|home | *you |
| 05:56.16 | doc|home | I'm not parsing it :/ |
| 05:56.16 | Vulc|Bleh | Doc: I'm too tired to think, I may be getting a few confused. |
| 05:56.26 | *** join/#maemo Tuco (n=Y@pool-71-125-248-50.nycmny.east.verizon.net) |
| 05:56.31 | doc|home | Vulc|Bleh: I think you might be thinking about huckabee, who *is* insane |
| 05:56.43 | thefool | I am pretty sure there are commandments against lying and murdering...I don't really associate religion with republicans |
| 05:56.45 | Vulc|Bleh | No, ronnie is, too, just less-so than the other GOP candidates. |
| 05:56.47 | doc|home | he is very openly religious |
| 05:56.55 | Vulc|Bleh | insane, that is |
| 05:57.07 | thefool | why is openly religious insane? |
| 05:57.21 | Vulc|Bleh | I never said that was why he was insane. |
| 05:57.32 | doc|home | Vulc|Bleh: find me another candidate who gets the economy and the foreign policy mess that the country is and then I'll believe you when you say that he's insane |
| 05:57.37 | thefool | guess the timing threw me off |
| 05:57.39 | Vulc|Bleh | Doc: He won't. |
| 05:57.43 | doc|home | thefool: I didn't say that |
| 05:57.52 | doc|home | Vulc|Bleh: he won't what? |
| 05:57.55 | *** join/#maemo Tuco (n=Y@pool-71-125-248-50.nycmny.east.verizon.net) |
| 05:58.00 | Vulc|Bleh | Fix everything he claims he will. |
| 05:58.18 | Vulc|Bleh | Every presidential candidate claims they will fix things. Do they? Maybe two out of five on the list. |
| 05:58.31 | doc|home | Vulc|Bleh: check out his voting record, he will try his hardest, he'll have opposition in congress but he'll do his best within the system. |
| 05:58.41 | thefool | Vulc|Bleh: who fixed two out of five? I would love to shake his hand. |
| 05:58.55 | Vulc|Bleh | Fool: Don't know, though I'm pretty sure it was done. |
| 05:59.14 | doc|home | thefool: I think huckabee is insane because he takes the bible literally, not even the catholic church does that. |
| 05:59.15 | thefool | Vulc|Bleh: If a canidate actually fixes one thing in their four years I would be content |
| 05:59.36 | Vulc|Bleh | Doc: I know he is _trying_ to fix things, but I don't think it will happen when he becomes pres. |
| 05:59.40 | thefool | doc|home: as in the earth is only a few thousand years old? |
| 05:59.43 | Vulc|Bleh | but that goes for every one of them |
| 05:59.52 | Vulc|Bleh | You fools! The earth is only HUNDREDS of years old. |
| 05:59.53 | doc|home | thefool: I don't know to be honest, I avoid reading the bible. |
| 06:00.28 | doc|home | Vulc|Bleh: right, but I'd trust him to actually try his hardest, while I wouldn't even trust the rest to do that much |
| 06:01.02 | Vulc|Bleh | Eh. There are a few dems that might. I can't vote this election, so we'll see how it happens. But personally? I'd rather none of them ruled our country for four years. |
| 06:01.25 | pupnik | "These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman." -Thomas Paine |
| 06:01.36 | shackan | it's a dirty job, someone has to do it |
| 06:01.52 | doc|home | Vulc|Bleh: none of the dems will, besides, the race is Clinton VS Obama, they won't do anything intelligent. She wants to make it so everyone has equally shit healthcare, and he thinks bombing pakistan isn't an entirely stupid idea. |
| 06:02.11 | thefool | As far as Dems go this year we only have a choice between Hillary and Obama, and both would continue to destroy this country |
| 06:02.25 | Vulc|Bleh | Hillary, from what I remember, is against net neutrality, which is bad |
| 06:02.37 | doc|home | thefool: do some in-depth research into Paul's ideas and you'll see they're actually cool |
| 06:02.38 | shackan | doc|home: what's wrong with free health care? it works in canada |
| 06:02.46 | doc|home | shackan: I live in Canada, it doesn't |
| 06:02.56 | Vulc|Bleh | Doc: I have, and, again, hes probably one of the lesser evils |
| 06:02.57 | shackan | mmmmm |
| 06:03.00 | thefool | I agree with everything except his views on the ICC and WTO |
| 06:03.05 | Vulc|Bleh | but none of them are good. |
| 06:03.13 | thefool | I think the ICC is the best thing since sliced bread |
| 06:03.16 | Vulc|Bleh | we need the _old_ republicans back |
| 06:03.18 | Vulc|Bleh | pre-1950 |
| 06:03.19 | doc|home | thefool: will the ICC do anything about the mess that Bush has made? |
| 06:03.20 | *** join/#maemo zncbtrn_ (n=zencubot@modemcable027.33-81-70.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 06:03.25 | thefool | I am trying to get an internship in prague... |
| 06:03.29 | shackan | doc|home: so, how it doesn't? |
| 06:03.35 | thefool | They would if they had enough support |
| 06:03.51 | thefool | doc|home: but the ICC is not about dealing with whole nations |
| 06:03.52 | doc|home | shackan: people here are constantly complaining about it. |
| 06:04.01 | doc|home | thefool: Bush is one person |
| 06:04.06 | thefool | doc|home: they want to have Bush arrested |
| 06:04.09 | pupnik | "We have a president who claims the ability to kidnap anyone on earth and torture them. This is dictatorial power that exceeds that of any ruler in the history of the world." |
| 06:04.11 | doc|home | thefool: right, but? |
| 06:04.26 | shackan | doc|home: they'd rather pay for everything out of their pocket? |
| 06:04.36 | thefool | doc|home: well so far only Switzerland has agreed to hand him over to the ICC |
| 06:04.46 | thefool | lol |
| 06:04.49 | doc|home | thefool: the ICC is useful when the people they don't like does something bad. When they people they do like does something bad nothing will happen. |
| 06:04.51 | shackan | doc|home: if you want to, there's always private clinics, at least we have them here |
| 06:05.01 | doc|home | shackan: not legal here |
| 06:05.10 | shackan | doc|home: hahaha, really? |
| 06:05.28 | shackan | but that's... COMMUNISM! |
| 06:05.36 | doc|home | shackan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care#Canada |
| 06:05.56 | thefool | a single payer system makes a crap load of sense |
| 06:06.06 | doc|home | thefool: single payer system? |
| 06:06.08 | shackan | very interesting |
| 06:06.11 | thefool | Canada's is not perfect but... |
| 06:06.31 | thefool | Basically the goverment is your insurance company and they don't make a profit |
| 06:06.42 | thefool | Its what Canada has |
| 06:06.45 | doc|home | thefool: so if I can actually afford to pay the best doctors for treatment but my local doctor sucks, I should be forced to go to my local doctor? |
| 06:06.54 | thefool | heck no |
| 06:07.16 | thefool | If you feel like going elsewhere do it, but it wont necessarily be covered |
| 06:07.27 | thefool | just like with insurrance |
| 06:07.37 | doc|home | thefool: except governments suck at lots of things. They don't generally even work towards the best deals. I worked for a company doing contracting to the government, the government paid more than most other clients. |
| 06:07.43 | thefool | And a decent system should not care if the doctor is local |
| 06:07.50 | doc|home | thefool: except that's not legal, you can't go elsewhere |
| 06:07.59 | shackan | doc|home: that's nonsense |
| 06:08.01 | thefool | doc|home: of course you can |
| 06:08.06 | doc|home | "Canada is the only industrialized country that has banned private medical insurance for services covered by the public health plan." |
| 06:08.15 | shackan | that's INSURANCE |
| 06:08.29 | shackan | if you pay out of your pocket it's another business |
| 06:08.36 | zerojay | doc|home: None of the stuff you said is a problem here. |
| 06:09.03 | doc|home | zerojay: I've heard of water drips costing $15 |
| 06:09.03 | shackan | I guess doctors can exercise privately in canda, I hope so |
| 06:09.19 | zerojay | You aren't forced to go to any doctor.. you choose. |
| 06:09.23 | doc|home | water drips aren't the real term, I forget the name they were given |
| 06:09.24 | celesteh | i lived in France for a while. Can we copy their system? It was great |
| 06:09.35 | thefool | doc|home: The goverment will waste tons of money, they will be horridly inefficent. But in the end it will still be more cost effective then paying an insurance company because of the insurance company's huge profit margins |
| 06:09.41 | doc|home | zerojay: you aren't forced to go to a specific doctor |
| 06:09.55 | *** join/#maemo cesman (n=cecil@76.91.116.141) |
| 06:10.02 | zerojay | doc|home: Hell no. You just go to whatever doctor you want and give them your medicare card. |
| 06:10.23 | doc|home | right |
| 06:10.37 | shackan | so what's the problem? |
| 06:10.41 | pupnik | I haven't felt this excited since christmas when I was 4 years old. |
| 06:11.04 | zerojay | It is right. That's what we've always done. Never had to think about what doctors to go to, what was or wasn't covered, none of that crap. |
| 06:11.05 | thefool | This is a great polotics channel... |
| 06:11.20 | zerojay | That's why it was shocking to me how crazy the US system is. |
| 06:11.30 | Vulc|Bleh | Yeah, its what happens when canola gets pushed back, thefool. |
| 06:11.54 | thefool | zerojay: lets put it this way, my family's health insurance (HMO) is more than our mortgage |
| 06:12.09 | thefool | thats just insane |
| 06:12.10 | pupnik | 12 MILLION! Woohooooooo! :) |
| 06:12.12 | doc|home | zerojay: so how do they apportion doctors? I mean, if everyone wants one doctor who's an expert, what happens? |
| 06:12.22 | zerojay | thefool: Not a surprise. I lived in the US for five years. I know how it is. |
| 06:12.25 | doc|home | pupnik: no one here knows what you're talking about :) |
| 06:12.37 | pupnik | i'm used to that |
| 06:12.44 | thefool | doc|home: yea we do...because he does not shut up about it lol |
| 06:12.49 | doc|home | hah |
| 06:12.59 | thefool | Ron Paul is raking in money |
| 06:13.05 | zerojay | doc|home: The doctor will take everyone that he can. The others can wait or go elsewhere. |
| 06:13.12 | celesteh | he wants to withdraw from the UN? |
| 06:13.14 | celesteh | this guy is a loon |
| 06:13.24 | thefool | my sentiments exactly |
| 06:13.27 | doc|home | zerojay: no political interference at all? i.e. his bosses telling him who he must see? |
| 06:13.30 | shackan | thefool: ... and pupnik is happy for that, does that make any sense? |
| 06:13.38 | zerojay | doc|home: No. Why would there be? |
| 06:13.58 | celesteh | oh, and he's against women being able to control their own bodies |
| 06:14.00 | celesteh | how exciting |
| 06:14.02 | zerojay | doc|home: And who is a doctor's boss anyways? That makes zero sense. |
| 06:14.13 | thefool | celesteh: oh don't start on that one |
| 06:14.18 | doc|home | celesteh: no, he's not, he's against the federal government having a say one way or the other. |
| 06:14.42 | celesteh | right, cuz "states rights" doesn't mean 90% of women get no say in such things |
| 06:15.24 | doc|home | celesteh: some states want it, some don't. You can figure that out within your own state, but why should you be forced to not have abortion if enough people in iowa say you shouldn't |
| 06:15.32 | celesteh | why should the bill of rights get to trump "states rights" in telling disempowered people what thyey can and can't do |
| 06:16.01 | thefool | why should I be forced to not murder my son because enough people in florida think its wrong? |
| 06:16.05 | celesteh | what about the women in iowa? no rights for them |
| 06:16.12 | doc|home | what do the bill of rights say about abortion? |
| 06:16.18 | zerojay | My body's nobody's body but mine. You have your body so let me have mine. |
| 06:16.21 | thefool | absolutely nothing! |
| 06:16.35 | doc|home | celesteh: again, that's up to them to fight. he can only work at what the federal government regulates. |
| 06:17.08 | thefool | great have your body, but that body inside you...it's not your body it's the body of a parasite called your child. Leave that one alone |
| 06:17.10 | celesteh | like Jim Crow was up to them? States rights has a long history of screwing people |
| 06:17.11 | doc|home | zerojay: that's the libertarian way of thinking, but he can only do what the president is allowed to do. |
| 06:17.12 | pupnik | it's all defined by when you consider the unborn child to gain the rights of an individual. This is an issue where there is no clear cut answer, and no mandate in the constitution for the federal govt to rule on. |
| 06:17.36 | penguinbait | wow its getting pretty wild in here |
| 06:17.41 | zerojay | doc|home: Huh? What? I think I missed something there. |
| 06:17.51 | celesteh | individuals do not have the right to comandeer the internal organs of other individuals |
| 06:18.06 | doc|home | <zerojay> My body's nobody's body but mine. You have your body so let me have mine. <- That is a libertarian belief |
| 06:18.15 | celesteh | you cannot be forced to give your liver to somebody who needs it |
| 06:18.27 | zerojay | doc|home: It's a song taught to kids to teach them that other people shouldn't be touching them in naughty areas. |
| 06:18.28 | doc|home | zerojay: but at the same time, he's not supposed to regulate within states, only at the federal level |
| 06:18.34 | thefool | where is that one coming from? |
| 06:18.41 | doc|home | zerojay: heh, I hadn't heard that one |
| 06:19.01 | celesteh | but somehow a fetus has the right to exist within a PERSON WHO DOES NOT WISH IT TO BE THERE |
| 06:19.07 | celesteh | capslock sorry |
| 06:19.53 | penguinbait | that person made a choice |
| 06:20.05 | doc|home | celesteh: that's another reason why abortion is such a contentious issue, and not something you can really make a law for that you can make people happy about. States rights means it can be regulated at the state level so each state can decide for itself. |
| 06:20.07 | celesteh | slut shaming |
| 06:20.11 | thefool | celesteh: because some think that a fetus is a person |
| 06:20.25 | doc|home | penguinbait: what if the condom broke? |
| 06:20.34 | penguinbait | I am pro-choice but against abortion |
| 06:20.40 | pupnik | Altitude: $413,800, Current velocity: $357,000/hr |
| 06:20.41 | celesteh | "End birthright citizenship." |
| 06:20.48 | celesteh | oh man, this guy is a xenophobic loon |
| 06:20.49 | thefool | doc|home: who cares, if she does not want it adoptions is better than death |
| 06:20.52 | penguinbait | doc its still your choice, risks and all |
| 06:21.04 | celesteh | let's ammend the consitutions to take away rights |
| 06:21.13 | zerojay | ... |
| 06:21.21 | doc|home | celesteh: not at all, he just knows that people are coming to the US, having a baby soon after, then using that to stay. We see the same thing in Ireland. |
| 06:21.21 | zerojay | Hey, how about that Maemo Mapper, huh? |
| 06:21.47 | thefool | I think I am mozing to New Zealand |
| 06:21.55 | celesteh | yes, women 9 months pregnant, swimming across the rio grande. that's totally plausible |
| 06:21.55 | doc|home | celesteh: he's all for immigration, just legal and when the economy can support it. |
| 06:21.59 | thefool | s/mozing/moving |
| 06:22.01 | penguinbait | mozing |
| 06:22.03 | penguinbait | ah |
| 06:22.11 | penguinbait | where are you now |
| 06:22.16 | doc|home | celesteh: do some more research into his explanations for these opinions |
| 06:22.21 | thefool | south florida |
| 06:22.23 | doc|home | they're all on youtube. |
| 06:22.29 | penguinbait | why NZ |
| 06:22.37 | celesteh | i've been in immigrant. anybody who wants to make immigrant lives harder sucks |
| 06:22.47 | thefool | have you heard about all their political issues? |
| 06:22.55 | zerojay | I think this is the first time in my memory that we've had a woman actively participating in #maemo. Cool. :) |
| 06:22.55 | penguinbait | not quite as was as Florida,but its real nice |
| 06:23.07 | penguinbait | s/was/warm |
| 06:23.20 | pupnik | http://ronpaulgraphs.com/dec_16_vs_nov_5_total.html Tea Party 07 vs ThisNovember5th |
| 06:23.21 | doc|home | celesteh: a legal one or illegal? |
| 06:23.23 | celesteh | oh, and he's against the international criminal court |
| 06:23.31 | celesteh | i've been both |
| 06:23.34 | thefool | neither have I, and thats why I want to move there. |
| 06:23.42 | doc|home | celesteh: as I've said, because it sucks. Will anything ever happen to Bush with the ICC? |
| 06:23.45 | shackan | thefool: where? |
| 06:23.53 | thefool | shackan: NZ |
| 06:24.08 | doc|home | celesteh: right, so if you can do it through the legal methods, why can't everyone? He wants to reform those too. |
| 06:24.12 | celesteh | the icc is established by treaty. the us is specifically exempted from it |
| 06:24.14 | shackan | thefool: oh, and I wanted to move to australia myself :) |
| 06:24.26 | doc|home | celesteh: convenient that |
| 06:24.35 | celesteh | i've been both legal and illegal. the paperwork is confusing and complicated in some countries |
| 06:24.49 | doc|home | celesteh: I'm Irish and in Canada, I'm well aware of that :) |
| 06:24.52 | thefool | celesteh: in the US the paperwork is just plain insane |
| 06:24.53 | doc|home | so many forms :( |
| 06:24.59 | zerojay | doc|home: The US immigration department basically stole $10000 from my wife and I. |
| 06:25.03 | celesteh | the only reason to pull the us out of the icc, which this dude wants, is to undermine international law in general |
| 06:25.18 | celesteh | milosovich should not be prosecuted according to ron paul |
| 06:25.25 | doc|home | zerojay: yeah, and coming to Canada's not much cheaper. |
| 06:25.37 | thefool | I had a friend born on a french island to two Americans. Took him till after his 19th birthday to get his citizenship straightened out |
| 06:25.41 | zerojay | We had to file and refile and refile because "the paperwork's been lost".. and even though they had a record of us paying all the fees, they made us repay over and over again. |
| 06:25.51 | zerojay | doc|home: Wrong. *MUCH CHEAPER*. |
| 06:26.02 | doc|home | zerojay: do you think that makes a case for entering the country illegally? |
| 06:26.03 | thefool | celesteh: I agree, the US needs to submit itself fully to the ICC |
| 06:26.27 | doc|home | zerojay: er, no, immigration lawyer want 8.5k off me. 1100 or so just in application fees to the government, |
| 06:26.28 | zerojay | My wife's just finishing her immigration to Canada. I think the final cost of everything is about $1000. |
| 06:26.29 | thefool | celesteh: people like Bush should be tried alongside people like Milosovich |
| 06:26.34 | *** join/#maemo rwhitby (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 06:26.41 | doc|home | zerojay: you're doing it yourself, right? |
| 06:26.43 | zerojay | doc|home: I'm talking just application fees. |
| 06:26.49 | zerojay | doc|home: Yep. |
| 06:26.52 | penguinbait | i agree |
| 06:27.04 | doc|home | zerojay: you have to admit though that your case in the US should be outside the norm. |
| 06:27.07 | timeless | anyone here know mplawner? |
| 06:27.08 | zerojay | US basically made us pay four times more than we should have had to pay. |
| 06:27.11 | celesteh | "It is the federal government that most divides us by race, class, religion, and gender. Through its taxes, restrictive regulations, corporate subsidies, racial set-asides, and welfare programs, government plays far too large a role in determining who succeeds and who fails." |
| 06:27.13 | celesteh | hahahahaha |
| 06:27.27 | doc|home | celesteh: look into his explanations of that |
| 06:27.33 | celesteh | yes. white men in the US are doing SO BADLY because the feds dscriminate against them constantly |
| 06:27.35 | zerojay | doc|home: Doesn't matter, because to me, it is the norm... so after all that, we said fuck it, lets go to Canada instead. |
| 06:27.44 | thefool | that was hogwash, his real view isn't quite as bad |
| 06:27.52 | doc|home | celesteh: you know hedge funds make about 2200 times what most people make, yet they, by their own admission, pay less taxes than a cleaner. |
| 06:28.14 | doc|home | zerojay: what happens to you does not make that the norm :) |
| 06:28.22 | doc|home | zerojay: a sample of one is not a good sampling rate :) |
| 06:28.22 | pupnik | Of course the govt does promote collectivism, and through tax-and-spend it promotes certain groups over others. This is not one of the enumerated powers of the constitution |
| 06:28.23 | celesteh | "racial set-asides" -> white guys are being discriminated against. boo-hoo |
| 06:28.24 | zerojay | When legal immigration is next to impossible for a separated family to get, there's something wrong. |
| 06:28.30 | penguinbait | MONKEY!!, HERE MONKEY MONKEY, Where the hell did that monkey go? |
| 06:28.33 | zerojay | doc|home: No, but it makes it the norm to *me*. |
| 06:28.44 | zerojay | doc|home: Because I was always treated the same way. |
| 06:28.48 | doc|home | zerojay: yes, but that makes no _legal_ justification for doing it outside the system. |
| 06:29.02 | doc|home | zerojay: again, a sample of one is not right |
| 06:29.19 | zerojay | doc|home: I'm not saying a sample of one means it's the norm for the US. |
| 06:29.20 | celesteh | immigration to the UK is f-ing impossible. |
| 06:29.23 | doc|home | those same people are the people you think should look after health care? |
| 06:29.24 | celesteh | the US is so much worse |
| 06:29.27 | thefool | doc|home: it might not be legally justified, but one is often left with no vialbe alternative |
| 06:29.47 | doc|home | thefool: so you think anyone who wants to enter the country should be allowed? |
| 06:29.56 | zerojay | doc|home: What I am saying is that I don't know or care about every other case. I only care about my own.,.. and in my case, I was always given the runaround and forced to pay more, so for me, them trying to fuck us over IS the norm. |
| 06:30.01 | celesteh | doc|home: why the heck not? |
| 06:30.07 | pupnik | You can't advocate unconstitutional laws based on exceptionalism without ratcheting up the leviathan state. |
| 06:30.18 | penguinbait | zj, has marijuana been decriminalized everywhere in Canada or only certain places? |
| 06:30.21 | doc|home | celesteh: no security checks? |
| 06:30.21 | timeless | penguinbait: monkey was killed by popular request |
| 06:30.27 | zerojay | penguinbait: No idea. |
| 06:30.36 | penguinbait | I tried to bring him back |
| 06:30.43 | pupnik | the popular request was for monkey to be changed to reply only when spoken to, timeless |
| 06:30.43 | zerojay | doc|home: Why not. Everyone that got to the US before didn't have to submit to that. |
| 06:30.45 | celesteh | the way the Dutch do immigration is that people from certain countries just arrive and then apply for paperowrk |
| 06:30.45 | thefool | doc|home: I think that I have not met an imigrant that was not a boon to the US |
| 06:30.48 | doc|home | zerojay: then you seem to have pretty narrow vision on these things :( |
| 06:31.14 | doc|home | zerojay: ok then, I think there should be security checks. Even the Canadian government agrees. |
| 06:31.15 | celesteh | why can't we have the Dutch system? Just show up and if you can stay and participate, that's great |
| 06:31.15 | zerojay | doc|home: Well, I can only speak from experience. If my experience was completely shitty... well, I'm sorry, but that's the way I was treated. |
| 06:31.20 | timeless | penguinbait: *shrug* i'm pretty sure _monkey got killed while i was on a vacation |
| 06:31.23 | thefool | doc|home: yet I have met a lot of lazy bums whos parents or great great grandparents were imigrants and are legal citizens who just collect welfare |
| 06:31.45 | *** join/#maemo shacka1 (n=n800@host11-151-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 06:31.51 | doc|home | zerojay: celesteh do you think taxes should go to social welfare for immigrants? |
| 06:32.02 | doc|home | if they can't get jobs |
| 06:32.10 | celesteh | immigrants pay more in taxes than they user services, so yes |
| 06:32.16 | zerojay | doc|home: I live in a place where we take care of the needy and the sick.. so yes. |
| 06:32.17 | penguinbait | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12594&highlight=monkey |
| 06:32.22 | doc|home | celesteh: illegal ones don't |
| 06:32.35 | celesteh | yes they do. they pay sales taxes and often payroll witholdings |
| 06:32.51 | celesteh | also, california agriculture would not exist without undocumented workers |
| 06:33.04 | doc|home | zerojay: it's not about sick and needy, it's about people who don't/can't/won't work |
| 06:33.06 | celesteh | they do pay taxes and they make farming here possible |
| 06:33.22 | thefool | I don't think taxes should go to social welfare for people that can get jobs and don't only those that "can't" and those that pay taxes should reap the benefit of taxes. Instead of trying to get rid of our imigrants we should tax the "illegal" ones like everyone else |
| 06:33.32 | celesteh | why shouldn't they get to go to a doctor when they're sick and send their kids to school just because their paperwork isn't in order? |
| 06:33.42 | zerojay | doc|home: Doesn't matter. People are people, regardless of artificial lines we've drawn around the planet. |
| 06:33.55 | thefool | BINGO |
| 06:33.55 | penguinbait | I was just poking around #politics and its pretty quiet?? |
| 06:34.15 | thefool | penguinbait: have a maemo related topic you want to shift things to? |
| 06:34.35 | timeless | penguinbait: afaict infobot is in requiremode |
| 06:34.36 | thefool | I blame this whole debate on canola...and pupnik |
| 06:34.37 | celesteh | maemo political mapper helps you navigate through the primary candidates |
| 06:34.40 | timeless | infobot i am timeless |
| 06:34.41 | infobot | it is my pleasure to meet you, timeless |
| 06:34.44 | timeless | infobot who am i? |
| 06:34.45 | infobot | timeless shut up, you are a nobody |
| 06:34.52 | zerojay | pwnd. |
| 06:34.55 | thefool | lol |
| 06:34.56 | timeless | ok, how rude |
| 06:35.10 | thefool | infobot I am TheFool |
| 06:35.11 | infobot | it is my pleasure to meet you, TheFool |
| 06:35.32 | thefool | infobot who am I? |
| 06:35.32 | infobot | thefool shut up, you are a nobody |
| 06:35.32 | doc|home | zerojay: I think those lines are important, otherwise you're also in with those people who invaded Iraq :/ (new lines will be drawn, people are always grouped, you'd be a "north american") |
| 06:35.43 | thefool | was wondering if it was random or constant |
| 06:36.00 | timeless | thanks :) |
| 06:36.10 | celesteh | when is OS2008 supposed to be out? |
| 06:36.32 | thefool | 2xth I think |
| 06:36.33 | timeless | when it's ready? |
| 06:36.41 | zerojay | doc|home: When it comes to dealing with people on a daily basis, I don't think anyone's going to confuse me with a guy armed with an AK47 and taking over other countries, but thanks for playing. :) |
| 06:36.43 | thefool | yea |
| 06:36.50 | celesteh | my n800 won't sign on to my airport network correctly. it only gets a link local IP. I'm hoping it's fixed in 2008 |
| 06:37.02 | pupnik | OS2008 will be a pile of tissue one second, then a full fledged OS when it is released. It's magic! |
| 06:37.04 | timeless | celesteh: did you file a bug? |
| 06:37.06 | Vulc|Bleh | you could try installing 08 now... |
| 06:37.17 | Vulc|Bleh | pup: Do we have a release date yet? |
| 06:37.39 | celesteh | no, i didn't file a bug. i'm wondering if it's because i bought the tablet in the Netherlands and it's something funny about american vs EU radio? |
| 06:37.40 | *** join/#maemo ryanfaerman (n=ryanfaer@crlspr-69.65.76.240.myacc.net) |
| 06:37.43 | zerojay | celesteh: I've been told that a lot of Apple's products don't do proper DHCP so... |
| 06:37.56 | doc|home | zerojay: right, just like those not armed with ak47s don't get called "sand monkeys". That never happens. People never just group a large number of people and tar them all with the one brush. |
| 06:38.09 | thefool | so just use a normal router...the airport is overpriced hogwash anyway |
| 06:38.22 | zerojay | doc|home: Hard to paint me with the same brush when I'm not over there doing it. |
| 06:39.07 | Vulc|Bleh | [01:37:43] <celesteh> no, i didn't file a bug. i'm wondering if it's because i bought the tablet in the Netherlands and it's something funny about american vs EU radio? -- it may be that |
| 06:39.07 | zerojay | And if helping people around me means that I would be painted with that same brush, then I'd happy welcome it. |
| 06:39.21 | celesteh | it's even more overpriced if i have to replace it with a new one when the rest of the network is doing fine |
| 06:39.24 | zerojay | celesteh: EU goes from 1-13.. US goes from 1-11. |
| 06:39.25 | doc|home | zerojay: sure, and it's hard to paint the "brown people" with being "islamofascists" yet that's what's happening. People don't care about the middle east because they're all getting grouped in as one when that's not even close to the case no more than all americans voted for Bush. |
| 06:39.26 | thefool | doc|home: i believe "towel-heads" is the PC term in the US |
| 06:39.38 | thefool | celesteh: good point... |
| 06:39.41 | zerojay | doc|home: That's what's happening in the US. :) |
| 06:39.44 | doc|home | thefool: same thing :) |
| 06:39.46 | doc|home | zerojay: exactly |
| 06:39.53 | zerojay | doc|home: Not happening here. |
| 06:40.01 | doc|home | zerojay: because there are those lines |
| 06:40.10 | zerojay | Wrong. |
| 06:40.31 | doc|home | really? what denotes one country if not those lines? |
| 06:40.33 | thefool | I totally decked a guy about a month ago for talking about how he thinks we should "nuke all those towel-heads" |
| 06:40.46 | doc|home | thefool: good move :) |
| 06:40.58 | celesteh | wow. if anybody deserved a decking |
| 06:41.03 | doc|home | although I'd have probably not done quite that :) |
| 06:41.09 | thefool | have you looked at the EU thats a lot of countries that have largely forogtten about those lines |
| 06:41.12 | shacka1 | It's diaper-heads |
| 06:41.23 | doc|home | thefool: exactly, and the same is going to happen to the US |
| 06:41.30 | doc|home | and canada and mexico |
| 06:41.32 | thefool | and I don't see that as a problem |
| 06:41.35 | zerojay | doc|home: You're going really way off on a tangent here to try to get away from my point that the people up here care for one and all and if it means higher taxes and other problems, so be it. |
| 06:41.39 | thefool | I see that as a good thing |
| 06:41.55 | doc|home | it's terrible even economically because different regions have different economic set ups |
| 06:42.01 | celesteh | i'd rather pay higher taxes and know that i wasn't going to be totally screwed if i got cancer |
| 06:42.15 | doc|home | e.g. Ireland is going to suffer because interest rates in the EU are set to what suits germany and france |
| 06:42.18 | thefool | and yet they are all doing fine |
| 06:42.21 | doc|home | spain will suffer too |
| 06:42.23 | thefool | just like Canada is |
| 06:42.43 | doc|home | thefool: give it time, the EU has increased the number of euro in circulation by 12.3% in the last year |
| 06:42.46 | zerojay | Yep. We have a government surplus... not a huge backbreaking debt. |
| 06:42.53 | shacka1 | Italy is not :( |
| 06:43.02 | thefool | they have a pretty open immigration policy, they take care of their immigrants, they provide universal healthcare...and yet they are doing fine |
| 06:43.06 | doc|home | thefool: canada will do better because it has resources, but the US hurting will hurt canada too as exports drop |
| 06:43.16 | celesteh | One more quote from the ron Paul website: "Today, the Social Security system is broke and broken." bzzzt. thanks for playing. better luck next time |
| 06:43.23 | zerojay | doc|home: In the short term, yes. |
| 06:43.41 | celesteh | if by "broke" you mean funded for the next 30 years AT LEAST |
| 06:43.44 | doc|home | unless you have the NAU which will mean Canada will will have no control over its resources and will also get the US's debt |
| 06:43.46 | thefool | celesteh: wait, are you seriously suggesting that it is not broken? |
| 06:43.55 | celesteh | i'm suggesting that it's not broke |
| 06:43.57 | doc|home | celesteh: funded, but the money has been spent already |
| 06:44.01 | thefool | celesteh: really? where is that money? |
| 06:44.16 | zerojay | doc|home: I don't see that ever happening because everyone up here would make sure it wouldn't. |
| 06:44.21 | doc|home | celesteh: he wants people to be able to opt out of that, and go private if they want |
| 06:44.22 | thefool | celesteh: then with all due respect, you my friend are an idiot |
| 06:44.31 | celesteh | did i miss the headline where retirees didn't get their checks? |
| 06:44.38 | doc|home | zerojay: I hope so, but if harper gets a majority he may not listen |
| 06:45.05 | celesteh | it's a bunch of treasury bonds |
| 06:45.13 | celesteh | that's in the fund |
| 06:45.16 | doc|home | celesteh: they're getting them now, but will they in the future |
| 06:45.24 | doc|home | ? |
| 06:45.25 | zerojay | doc|home: He'd have to. There would be too much of a public outcry. We don't want to lose what's great about our country because the US screwed up theirs. |
| 06:45.29 | thefool | no but you missed the 100 of them about my kids generation not getting their checks when they retire...and about the whole america is in the most dept it has ever been in thing... |
| 06:45.37 | doc|home | zerojay: exactly, that's why lines are important |
| 06:46.20 | celesteh | the projections where the system goes "broke" all place it at 30 years in the future or sometimes 50 and assume that there will be zero economic growth |
| 06:46.22 | doc|home | the US debt is now at 9 trillion, that'll have to be paid |
| 06:46.40 | doc|home | celesteh: I think it has started already |
| 06:46.56 | doc|home | celesteh: you have a recession (negative growth) and a quickly declining dollar |
| 06:47.06 | celesteh | yes, debt is out of control, but seriously, if the us starts defaulting on treasury bonds, a private system won't save you |
| 06:47.07 | thefool | STARTED? when someone is in dept they are not starting to be "broke" they are past that point |
| 06:47.22 | thefool | it is not so different with countries |
| 06:47.38 | doc|home | celesteh: not now they won't |
| 06:47.42 | celesteh | really? so if somebody is paying off a morgage, they're broke? |
| 06:48.05 | doc|home | celesteh: if you have -300,000 are you not broke? |
| 06:48.43 | celesteh | well, when i first purchased a home, i had -300 000, but would not have described myself as broke, since i was paying all my bills on time |
| 06:48.48 | thefool | that analogy is flawed as the US has made no investment, they are just spending the money |
| 06:49.00 | zerojay | And spending the money and spending the money. |
| 06:49.25 | celesteh | if the problem is that we're spenind too much money and this is going to hurt retirees, maybe we could do something like, i dunno, stop invading other countries? |
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| 06:49.45 | thefool | I would not call buying a house in dept as you now have something of worth. The US is simply buying a bunch of beer kegs... |
| 06:49.50 | celesteh | quit building insanely expensive weapons for the cold war? |
| 06:49.54 | doc|home | celesteh: sure, find another politician who'll do that? |
| 06:50.00 | celesteh | kucinich |
| 06:50.02 | thefool | and sloppily pouring them on the ground |
| 06:50.14 | shacka1 | Kuciwho? |
| 06:50.21 | celesteh | dennis kucinich |
| 06:50.38 | zerojay | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_current_account_balance <-- Kinda says it all. |
| 06:50.38 | doc|home | celesteh: he has zero chance against obama and hillary. Ron Paul has a lot of support, even if polls don't show it. Look at how much money he's pulling in. He's going to really surprise people in the primaries. |
| 06:50.44 | celesteh | actually, he said he wanted ron paul for a running mate. which is rather unfortunate |
| 06:51.10 | Fang64 | wow you guys pick topics that start arguments often? |
| 06:51.13 | doc|home | celesteh: I've heard he'd also be Ron Paul's running mate |
| 06:51.20 | doc|home | Fang64: debate != argument :) |
| 06:51.34 | celesteh | alas, why does everybody cool turn into ralph nader |
| 06:51.35 | Fang64 | ah I stepped in the wrong time |
| 06:51.36 | Fang64 | lol |
| 06:51.46 | doc|home | celesteh: hmmm? |
| 06:52.05 | celesteh | these guys all seem to actually have good ideas and then they go shred their credibility |
| 06:52.10 | shacka1 | Fang64: and it's more interesting than canola |
| 06:52.29 | celesteh | kucinich says he wants to promite peace internationally, but he wants to run with the guy who wants to kill all international institutions? |
| 06:52.35 | Fang64 | lol agreed |
| 06:52.58 | doc|home | celesteh: check his credibility, you may not always agree with everything he says but he's very consistent, and he gets that the economy is fucked without change (which will hurt but a lot less than without change) and that the foreign policy is utterly stupid. |
| 06:53.29 | shacka1 | celesteh: it's callaed, 'politics', or 'fool the electors' |
| 06:53.33 | doc|home | celesteh: why should the US get to tell another country how it should act? |
| 06:53.55 | thefool | goodnight all |
| 06:54.35 | doc|home | what did the UN do to stop the US invading Iraq? nothing, What would it do to stop the US invading Iran? Nothing, or any other country for that matter. |
| 06:54.35 | celesteh | i like international greements. specifically, i like ones designed to promote peace. like the anti-nucleart proliferation treaties. i just have a sneaking suspision that nuclear war would suck. probably delay some maemo releases and whatnot |
| 06:54.51 | doc|home | celesteh: he's not against any agreements, he's against these agreements. |
| 06:55.40 | celesteh | the UN has done quite a bit to promote peace and prevent another world war. that the us chooses to run roughshod over it only shows the US to be a law-breaking state, not anyhting intrinsically wrong with the organization |
| 06:56.04 | doc|home | celesteh: check out his videos and you'll see he promotes discussion and trade and is opposed "entangling alliances" which is what those agreements are |
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| 06:57.01 | celesteh | What do I, as an American citizen, get from having extra soverignty? |
| 06:57.07 | doc|home | I thought he was a bit off the wall too, specifically some of the stuff he wanted to dismantle, but they make a lot of sense when you see the justification |
| 06:57.12 | celesteh | I get the ICC falling apart. That doesn't help me |
| 06:57.29 | celesteh | I get the UN falling apart. That doesn't help me. |
| 06:57.51 | doc|home | celesteh: the US makes up a large part of the UN forces, that costs the US money, paid for in taxes and national debt (which leads to inflation) both of which affect you. |
| 06:58.07 | celesteh | The more the US turns into an outlaw state, the lower the dollar falls and the harder it is for me to move abroad. This hurts me as a citizen |
| 06:58.08 | pupnik | Wow, celesteh is technically american |
| 06:58.34 | doc|home | celesteh: thanks to the government which he wants to help remove the power from. |
| 06:58.51 | doc|home | celesteh: that's also thanks to the federal reserve, which he wants to dismantle. |
| 06:59.12 | celesteh | Withdrawing from international organizations does not help the US's status/perception as an outlaw state. |
| 06:59.19 | doc|home | they've only been there since 1913 and the dollar has inflated at an unprecedent rate since then |
| 06:59.34 | doc|home | celesteh: he'll pull out of every country US forces are in. That would mean a hell of a lot more. |
| 06:59.35 | celesteh | pupnik: wow, what. I'm in Berkeley |
| 07:00.09 | celesteh | blame william jennings bryant and his cross if gold |
| 07:00.12 | doc|home | celesteh: international organisations mean nothing. You can still talk to people. |
| 07:00.18 | celesteh | s /if/of/ |
| 07:01.24 | celesteh | indeed, nothing prevents you from talking to people, but withdrawing from the forum in which suchs discussions take place does send a signal about isolationism. not the good kind of stop-meddling isolationism, but the we-don't care-what-you-think kind |
| 07:01.53 | doc|home | celesteh: it also says you're not happy with how the organisation has progressed. It's a lot different to how it was when it was formed. |
| 07:02.02 | doc|home | china and russia can veto anything |
| 07:02.09 | celesteh | so can we |
| 07:02.09 | doc|home | as can france and britain |
| 07:02.11 | doc|home | exactly |
| 07:02.22 | celesteh | on the security counsil, not in the general assembly |
| 07:02.26 | doc|home | so you may want to do something which is completely justified and right, but they can veto it |
| 07:02.27 | celesteh | and losing the vetos would be a good thing |
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| 07:02.46 | doc|home | exactly, but then it's a completely different organisation |
| 07:02.50 | celesteh | but ditching vetos and ditching the whole org are different things |
| 07:03.06 | celesteh | the security counsil would, indeed, change. |
| 07:03.06 | doc|home | celesteh: yeah, but can you see anyone ditching their veto? |
| 07:03.34 | celesteh | i'm reminded of a proverb about babies and bathwater |
| 07:03.53 | doc|home | meh, sometimes babies suck |
| 07:03.54 | doc|home | ;) |
| 07:04.03 | celesteh | heh |
| 07:04.18 | celesteh | they only get rights until they're born. |
| 07:04.24 | celesteh | then they're not so innocent anymore |
| 07:05.37 | doc|home | you gave those quotes so I'm going to give you another one of his quotes: "The purpose of government is to protect the secrecy and privacy of all individuals, not the secrecy of the government". Does that sound like any other politician to you? And he's a ten term congressman who has voted against even congressional pay raises. |
| 07:05.49 | syntux | is there any way to connect N800 to Garmin device ? |
| 07:06.01 | doc|home | you're looking at the negatives, look at the positives too |
| 07:06.09 | celesteh | those quotes, btw, were from his campaign website |
| 07:06.17 | celesteh | on the part where he explains his positions |
| 07:06.29 | doc|home | celesteh: right, but as with any politician you have to look deeper to find out anything |
| 07:06.44 | celesteh | they're the little blurbs you see before you click for more. they were not unfair in any way |
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| 07:07.49 | doc|home | anything that you see as a negative generally has a reasonable explanation once you find it. I'm not so bothered about immigration, but it supposedly is a big problem in some states. The up sides far outweigh the downsides with him. More than any othe politician. |
| 07:08.41 | pupnik | Someone has to pull the brakes on the train heading off the cliff. |
| 07:08.49 | celesteh | there is not a good justification for ending brithright citizenship. |
| 07:09.15 | celesteh | the states that are all up in arms about immigrants are the states with the fewest |
| 07:09.15 | doc|home | celesteh: in Ireland we have people from countries outside the EU who come over weeks before they're due to give birth. Then demand citizenship. |
| 07:09.27 | doc|home | the same supposedly is happening in the US |
| 07:10.23 | celesteh | california is a border state and it's not going crazy |
| 07:10.23 | doc|home | but hey, that's just one issue |
| 07:10.23 | celesteh | anything that ammends the consitution to remove rights from particular individuals because of their parents legal status is not just one issues. it is a huge issue |
| 07:10.24 | doc|home | is it really a killer issue? I mean, look at the rest of them, can you tell me that that's the problem in the world :/ |
| 07:10.47 | celesteh | fine, underminding the ICC would also be enough for me to dismiss him outright |
| 07:11.00 | doc|home | celesteh: hah, because they're important? |
| 07:11.13 | celesteh | the US should increase it's participation in peace-promiting international orgs, not reduce |
| 07:11.23 | doc|home | really, if Bush can get away with what he's done and the ICC has done nothing of any great use, how can they be a key issue for you? |
| 07:11.43 | celesteh | if the most armed country in the world suddenly up and quits the UN, don't you think that would have implications? |
| 07:11.49 | doc|home | celesteh: again, the US should not be intervening at all. That's what it should do. Where does it get to say what another country should do? |
| 07:11.58 | celesteh | the ICC's charter is such that it will not prosecute americans |
| 07:11.58 | syntux | whoo haa, politics at #Maemo :-) |
| 07:12.01 | syntux | that's wonderful |
| 07:12.13 | doc|home | celesteh: and you think that's ok? |
| 07:12.14 | celesteh | you can't criticize it for not violating it's charter |
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| 07:12.28 | syntux | do you think #Politics folks would be talking about Maemo ? maybe discussing OS2008? |
| 07:12.43 | celesteh | if you want the ICC to start prosecuting americans, you can amend the charter |
| 07:12.53 | celesteh | withdrawing from it will just cause it to collapse |
| 07:13.02 | celesteh | no more world court. that promotes peace how? |
| 07:13.09 | doc|home | how is it doing it now? |
| 07:13.23 | celesteh | charles taylor is being held in the hague |
| 07:13.42 | celesteh | (couldn't have ahppened to a nicer guy) |
| 07:14.06 | doc|home | and you think that has stopped anyone else from committing atrocities? |
| 07:14.11 | doc|home | or will in the future? |
| 07:14.25 | doc|home | do you think these people really consider the ICC when they carry out their actions? |
| 07:14.42 | doc|home | "Oh well, I was going to kill thousands of people but the ICC, they'll dislike that" |
| 07:14.44 | celesteh | what kind of nihilism causes people to give up on the rule of law because it's not perfect? |
| 07:15.00 | celesteh | shoudl we get rid of laws against murder because serial killers do it anyway? |
| 07:15.24 | doc|home | celesteh: has the ICC stopped the murder of close to a million people in Iraq |
| 07:15.43 | doc|home | is it not for the people of Liberia to try Charles taylor? |
| 07:16.08 | celesteh | no, the ICC has not violated the treaties that established it |
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| 07:16.21 | pupnik | NP: The The - I've been waiting for this moment, all of my life. |
| 07:16.36 | celesteh | sometimes, it can be very difficult for people who have just gotten out from under a dictator to do a trial themselves due to lingering fear and corruption |
| 07:16.48 | doc|home | celesteh: again, who gets prosecuted by the ICC, the people who should be or the people who the supporters of the ICC dislike? |
| 07:16.52 | pupnik | ICC has been partisan in NATO wars, it's a joke for post-facto criminalization of the west's opponents. |
| 07:16.57 | doc|home | celesteh: the Italians did it |
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| 07:17.05 | doc|home | many do, history is full of examples of it |
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| 07:17.37 | celesteh | many don't. Taylor was a US a puppet. That makes it somehwat more complicated for them |
| 07:17.41 | doc|home | sorry, they didn't try mussolini, he was dealt with otherwise |
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| 07:18.35 | celesteh | no international org is perfect. we can try to fix them. we should try to fix them |
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| 07:19.03 | celesteh | fixing them != breaking them |
| 07:19.10 | doc|home | sometimes they can't be fixed, the US would never agree to a change in the charter |
| 07:19.13 | celesteh | fixing them != abadoning them |
| 07:19.46 | celesteh | who is the US in this case? The citizens? The guy who is running for president who wants out because they voerpriviledge the country? |
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| 07:19.59 | celesteh | s /voer/over/ |
| 07:20.19 | doc|home | celesteh: I've to go now, go vote for whoever suits you. If the ICC is your key issue I'm a little worried, I have to say. Failing economy? Fine, Terrible Foreign policy? fine. But dismantle the ICC? NEVAR! |
| 07:20.32 | celesteh | if we'd elect a guy who says, "wow, we shouldn't have this veto," wouldn't that indicate that we'd then have a government which would act to get rid of the veto? |
| 07:21.16 | pupnik | Altitude: $634,000 Velocity: $300,000/hr |
| 07:21.25 | celesteh | Screing international orgs is worse foreign policy! It doesn't fix anything! It exacerabtes recent negative trends. Not only do we invade people but we drop out of everything designed to stop such things! |
| 07:22.58 | doc|home | celesteh: his foreign policy is to NOT invade anywhere in the first place. |
| 07:23.13 | doc|home | and to pull out of those places US forces are already |
| 07:23.14 | pupnik | celesteh: they don't stop such things. |
| 07:23.29 | pupnik | celesteh: only the american people can stop it - by voting for Ron Paul |
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| 07:40.57 | thoughtfix | OK kind sirs. Must get ready for $girl arrival. |
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| 08:10.17 | corevette | http://paulcash.slact.net/ - amazing |
| 08:17.59 | pupnik | :D |
| 08:18.23 | pupnik | at 3:00 AM! (est) |
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| 08:59.25 | L0cutus | Consumes more energy an usb keyboard or a bluetooth? |
| 09:00.34 | pupnik | with rechargeable AAA akkus, my bluetooth keyboard lasts 3 days to 2 weeks |
| 09:01.17 | *** join/#maemo zodman (n=zodman@189.151.47.79) |
| 09:02.21 | L0cutus | i mean wich one drain the tablet more fast |
| 09:02.25 | *** join/#maemo gopi (n=gopi@168.187.88.161) |
| 09:02.50 | L0cutus | since the tablet can give max 200mA to an usb device |
| 09:04.49 | pupnik | good question |
| 09:05.48 | L0cutus | in other words, consumes more power a bluetooth connection or an usb connection ? |
| 09:05.49 | L0cutus | :) |
| 09:06.03 | L0cutus | i think a n usb connection drain more power... |
| 09:06.20 | pupnik | i think so too - i think bluetooth is somewhere around 10mw |
| 09:06.23 | *** join/#maemo red-zack (n=mk@p5B0477F2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:06.31 | L0cutus | and also has power saving |
| 09:06.38 | L0cutus | have* |
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| 09:07.29 | pupnik | there are three classes of bluetooth RF power levels, 1, 10 and 100mw sending power |
| 09:08.40 | L0cutus | is automatically selected ? |
| 09:09.51 | L0cutus | i have see that synergy is less usable with os2008 |
| 09:10.11 | L0cutus | since i don't know how to switch input type |
| 09:10.20 | L0cutus | the old script are gone |
| 09:12.36 | pupnik | input type for syn? |
| 09:12.53 | pupnik | i can find it |
| 09:13.29 | pupnik | maemo-gtk-im-switch xim |
| 09:13.33 | L0cutus | yes |
| 09:14.12 | L0cutus | can't find it anymore :-\ |
| 09:14.32 | pupnik | ohhh |
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| 09:22.48 | L0cutus | http://tabletblog.com/2006/01/usb-power-injector-2.html |
| 09:22.49 | L0cutus | :) |
| 09:22.54 | L0cutus | interesting |
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| 09:49.39 | maddler | morning all... |
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| 10:40.22 | sciboy | http://www.blackberrycool.com/2006/07/27/002065/ - That would be neat to have. |
| 10:44.05 | sciboy | Predictive text with only 6 buttons for the alphabet. |
| 10:45.14 | pupnik | L0cutus: i think the 4 AA 1.25 volt NiMH batteries would be preferable to that 9V going through the voltage convertor - at least easier to wire up without ordering parts. |
| 10:52.01 | sciboy | The big different being the distance you hand has to travel, all the buttons you need directly border each other. |
| 10:52.08 | sciboy | difference* |
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| 11:14.16 | b0unc3 | good morning |
| 11:22.06 | syntux | Yes, good morning |
| 11:22.13 | syntux | is there any way to connect N800 to Garmin device ? |
| 11:22.24 | syntux | or is there any way to install Google Earth on N800 ? |
| 11:22.41 | pupnik | dunno |
| 11:22.50 | pupnik | is there a collaborative text editor for maemo? |
| 11:25.45 | pupnik | testing gobby right now |
| 11:25.48 | pupnik | tons of dependencies tho |
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| 11:52.01 | pupnik | anybody up for a quick gizmo test? |
| 11:53.02 | gomiam | pupnik: what do you want to test? |
| 11:53.12 | pupnik | if it works - had problems with another person |
| 11:53.18 | pupnik | need to see whose end the problem is on |
| 11:53.24 | pupnik | the call would connect, but no sound |
| 11:54.27 | gomiam | give me a couple of minutes and we can try it |
| 11:54.33 | pupnik | ok ty |
| 11:54.43 | pupnik | much obliged :) |
| 11:58.09 | gomiam | ok, starting Gizmo up... |
| 11:58.22 | gomiam | logging in as magao3046 |
| 11:58.49 | gomiam | downloading latest update... |
| 11:59.55 | gomiam | launching application manager... |
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| 12:00.50 | pupnik | i'm on as pupnik |
| 12:01.32 | gomiam | updating.... |
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| 12:03.44 | gomiam | relaunching gizmo... |
| 12:04.09 | *** join/#maemo guardian (n=guardian@82.126.69.95) |
| 12:04.42 | gomiam | adding pupnik... |
| 12:04.59 | gomiam | calling |
| 12:05.48 | gomiam | waitiing for callback... |
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| 12:07.14 | pupnik | thanks - problem was on his end |
| 12:08.49 | gomiam | ok, shutting down Gizmo |
| 12:09.48 | pupnik | i do not have any special ports open for gizmo either |
| 12:09.55 | pupnik | it must be the other guy's firewall or something |
| 12:10.50 | gomiam | yup, must be that |
| 12:11.06 | gomiam | it might even be the Windows Firewall (going out on a limb here) |
| 12:11.50 | gomiam | if it decided the Gizmo application has no permissions to receive data and your pal didn't know how to change that, it might do that |
| 12:13.25 | gomiam | well, now it's time to get back to trying to find the elusive "Windows patch" that allows Xen-izing Windows without paravirtualization :-) |
| 12:14.07 | gopi_ | hmm. colloquy seems to be leaving this window blank for some reason. |
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| 12:15.45 | gopi | Let's see if this works now. |
| 12:16.56 | gomiam | pupnik: it seems I cut the conversation short and Gizmo decided I needed to get a voicemail XD |
| 12:17.04 | gomiam | (from you, that is) |
| 12:17.37 | pupnik | yes i sent a mail before you got online with the client |
| 12:17.52 | pupnik | well i placed a call, and gizmo seems to have a server-based answering machine |
| 12:18.09 | gomiam | well, it got your message quite clearly |
| 12:18.20 | gomiam | (listening to the .WAV file right now) |
| 12:18.31 | pupnik | i like the app. just need to learn how to connect to other SIP clients, not just gizmo |
| 12:19.48 | gomiam | it would seem you can set what protocol a contact uses while adding it |
| 12:20.00 | gomiam | (at least I got a drop-down list that included SIP) |
| 12:20.06 | pupnik | ok thx |
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| 12:45.11 | t_s_o | hmm, is it much point in getting a 770 fixed these days? or should i just grab a N800? still, its about 6 months since i got the 770, so... |
| 12:47.10 | gopi | I prefer the 770's physical design for handheld use. |
| 12:51.23 | hugolp | bah, get a N800 |
| 12:51.29 | hugolp | OS2008 is great |
| 12:55.38 | kulve | the double memory in n800 compared to 770 is quite useful.. |
| 12:58.47 | *** join/#maemo sp3000 (n=tt@hoasb-ff0ddd00-250.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 12:58.52 | gomiam | and, since OS2008, you can use the N800 as a USB _host_ |
| 12:58.59 | gomiam | which can be quite interesting |
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| 12:59.33 | tontsa | what do you mean as host? |
| 13:00.02 | t_s_o | as in, plug in a usb device like say a memory stick? |
| 13:00.17 | gomiam | tontsa: I mean you can connect USB drives, mice, and keyboards through the right cable |
| 13:00.23 | gomiam | and the N800 will even power them |
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| 13:00.37 | tontsa | oh ok |
| 13:00.52 | t_s_o | hmm, sounds like ill grab a N800 then if i can find the cash. and maybe get that 770 fixed later |
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| 13:01.11 | gomiam | (of course, you'd better have a powered USB hub so the N800 won't suffer giving out too much power) |
| 13:01.12 | gomiam | ;-) |
| 13:02.02 | tontsa | i'm just happy using my n810 on the road without any plugs or wires coming out of it :) |
| 13:02.27 | t_s_o | hmm, can that carmonitor thingy use usb based devices to? |
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| 13:35.11 | pupnik | n800 can power a usb hard drive (notebook)? |
| 13:35.40 | t_s_o | probably, if running 08. but i wonder how long the battery would last |
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| 13:49.53 | astro76 | I was under the impression you need to inject power externally for anything with significant current draw |
| 13:49.53 | astro76 | like this http://wrlabs.shacknet.nu/~vw/tmp/USB-PI/ |
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| 13:56.59 | lopz | hola |
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| 14:21.09 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
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| 14:58.43 | oil_ | quickie. how to determinate from which repository I can find wireless-tools ? |
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| 15:07.08 | myk0n | hi |
| 15:08.22 | myk0n | gst_element_factory_make segfaults when running in the Nokia N800, does anyone has a clue about it? |
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| 16:00.58 | mgedmin | turns out you do need to reboot a n800 after calibrating the screen for the calibration to take effect |
| 16:01.08 | mgedmin | at least now I know my n800 isn't broken |
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| 16:17.44 | sp3000 | mgedmin: os? |
| 16:17.52 | mgedmin | 2007 |
| 16:17.58 | sp3000 | k, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1728 says fixed now |
| 16:18.04 | mgedmin | great |
| 16:18.13 | mgedmin | I won't need to file a bug report then :-) |
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| 17:57.13 | skibur | ok... Any word on official OS2008 bin file for N800? |
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| 18:07.12 | kulve | skibur: I think there isn't |
| 18:10.21 | skibur | o ok |
| 18:11.38 | skibur | wondering why bigomips = 160.68? |
| 18:12.16 | kulve | BogoMIPS : 320.37 |
| 18:12.23 | kulve | I think it depends on what you are doing.. |
| 18:12.40 | skibur | hum... |
| 18:13.19 | skibur | are you using os2008 or os2007? |
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| 18:34.58 | kulve | 2008 |
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| 19:16.29 | dick-richardson | where is the path specified? |
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| 19:23.09 | dick-richardson | when I type into my vnc client in os2008, the letters are doubled on the vnc server...anyone come across this? |
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| 19:25.55 | bz_g | looks like OS2008 (used to) double keystrokes on xterm as well: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/archive/index.php/index.php?t-12295.html |
| 19:28.35 | bz_g | any news from maemo for the final release of OS2008 ? |
| 19:29.30 | kulve | no news on the final os2008 (at least I haven't seen any) |
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| 19:38.21 | bz_g | kulve: thanks. |
| 19:39.10 | bz_g | I've got my N800 yesterday, I plan to upgrade quite soon. |
| 19:39.40 | bz_g | But one thing: will it be possible to upgrade from 0S2008 (beta) to 0S2008 (final) smoothly? |
| 19:39.57 | bz_g | Or will that require to flash again ? |
| 19:40.40 | timeless | bz_g: asking's pointless |
| 19:40.43 | tontsa | definately a flash. there's no point for nokia to waste time QA:ing some smooth upgrade from beta |
| 19:40.54 | timeless | when there's news,it'll be on maemo.org/, planet.maemo.org, and the channel topic |
| 19:41.35 | timeless | note: for a final, like os2008/n800, it'd obviously be at least a flash |
| 19:41.41 | dick-richardson | I'd leave it 2007 until the final release |
| 19:41.44 | timeless | and most likely there will be flashed for a while |
| 19:41.52 | timeless | s/flashed/flashes/ |
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| 19:41.59 | timeless | whether or note there are also updates available |
| 19:42.40 | timeless | s/note/not/ |
| 19:44.40 | bz_g | dick-richardson: thanks, I think I'll do this. |
| 19:45.21 | timeless | bz_g: epic via screen/ssh/putty atm |
| 19:45.27 | timeless | watching "The siege" on tv |
| 19:45.47 | timeless | sometimes i do use terminal's on my 770/n800/n810s |
| 19:45.57 | timeless | but in this case, i'm mostly tired |
| 19:47.51 | dick-richardson | I have some movies I've encoded xvid/mp3 (vbr) and I'm getting a media corrupted message on my n810... |
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| 19:49.07 | timeless | dick: internal card? |
| 19:49.21 | dick-richardson | external...or samba |
| 19:49.45 | timeless | media corrupted is from a movie player about the movie |
| 19:49.53 | timeless | or from the device/platform about the file systems? |
| 19:50.04 | dick-richardson | movie player about the movie |
| 19:50.52 | timeless | dick: look into jaffa's media thingy |
| 19:50.55 | dick-richardson | "Unable to open. Media clip corrupted." |
| 19:50.58 | dick-richardson | kk |
| 19:51.11 | timeless | btw, if you feel the English text sucks, please file a bug :) |
| 19:51.52 | dick-richardson | where is it? |
| 19:52.29 | timeless | maemo.org/downloads |
| 19:52.34 | timeless | the trick is remembering its name :) |
| 19:52.57 | dick-richardson | tablet-encode v2.15 - now with GUI |
| 19:53.05 | dick-richardson | ? |
| 19:53.14 | timeless | i really don't remember :) |
| 19:53.22 | *** join/#maemo trickie_ (n=trickie@a82-93-157-78.adsl.xs4all.nl) |
| 19:59.29 | dick-richardson | here we go...we'll see how well it works :D |
| 20:01.51 | konttori | has canola been published yet? |
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| 20:21.24 | *** join/#maemo univac (n=univac@xmms2/user/univac) |
| 20:21.31 | univac | hi |
| 20:21.42 | univac | who have n800 for sell? ;p |
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| 20:24.02 | alterego | univac, Nokia |
| 20:24.34 | univac | i dont need brand new :) |
| 20:24.47 | alterego | This isn't a market place univac |
| 20:25.17 | univac | Eh, maybe whos have for sell .. |
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| 20:40.18 | tank-man | univac, how much would you pay for a used one? |
| 20:43.05 | zerojay | I wouldn't go higher than $100 for a used N800 now. |
| 20:44.23 | tank-man | i wouldnt sell my used one for $100 |
| 20:44.27 | tank-man | my precious |
| 20:45.22 | zerojay | Can't be too precious if you'd sell it at all. :) |
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| 20:46.40 | alterego | I'd sell my used one for $200 |
| 20:46.46 | alterego | $100 is way too cheap .. |
| 20:46.53 | zerojay | They sell brand new for $200. |
| 20:47.01 | alterego | They do? |
| 20:47.02 | tank-man | exactly :) hahaha |
| 20:47.04 | univac | true :) |
| 20:47.05 | zerojay | Yeah? |
| 20:47.15 | zerojay | N800s are about $200 new now. |
| 20:47.15 | alterego | That's pretty cheap. |
| 20:47.41 | alterego | Well, I'm not selling mine any way :P |
| 20:47.52 | alterego | I'm going to rip it apart instead. |
| 20:48.00 | univac | nokia.com wouldnt ship to my country, blach |
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| 20:49.29 | alterego | immigrate ;) |
| 20:49.50 | |R | they'll ship to canada though now, i'm happy :) |
| 20:50.37 | univac | alterego: pff, never ;d |
| 20:52.32 | alterego | Well, obviously Nokia don't recognise your country. You must be in a crap place :P |
| 20:52.49 | univac | poland ;p |
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| 20:53.01 | alterego | Must be pretty lonely there now. |
| 20:53.02 | edistar | has jack been ported to maemo? |
| 20:55.50 | alterego | Why would you want that on Maemo? |
| 20:56.28 | edistar | alterego: I'd like to run idjc on maemo |
| 20:56.51 | alterego | Don't know what that is :) |
| 20:57.18 | edistar | alterego: a dj program |
| 20:57.34 | alterego | I seriously doubt that'd work well. |
| 20:57.40 | alterego | But you can try porting it yourself .. |
| 20:57.44 | edistar | alterego: me too, but I wanted to try :) |
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| 21:56.48 | shackan | who is this Darius Jack guy and why does he always act like a dick? |
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| 22:13.04 | |tbb| | is the navigation software for os2008 available right now |
| 22:21.14 | timeless | |tbb|: it's part of the flash image |
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| 22:21.35 | timeless | although from what i understand some paid feature is not currently available |
| 22:21.42 | timeless | i think that's the audio guidance or something |
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| 22:23.12 | |tbb| | is it possible to use it with n800 |
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| 22:51.15 | jeremym | anyone here familiar with maemo mapper? |
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| 22:52.27 | jeremym | I would like to get it to talk to a file (/tmp/nmeaNP) . It only seems to want to talk bluetooth. |
| 22:54.09 | GNUton | hi! |
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| 23:03.16 | lardman|home | soooo, does the week start on a Sunday or a Monday...? |
| 23:04.14 | tontsa | that depends on culture |
| 23:04.57 | lardman|home | for the Finnish, or Spaniards who work for Finnish companies? |
| 23:06.33 | lardman|home | anyway, my code didn't work when I tried it an hour ago |
| 23:07.38 | |tbb| | gimme the code i will try it for u ;) |
| 23:08.05 | lardman|home | N0tAchAnCe |
| 23:08.28 | lardman|home | but thanks for the offer :) |
| 23:08.39 | tontsa | weeks start on mondays in finland |
| 23:08.58 | tontsa | like it's week 51 now |
| 23:09.14 | derf | They said it would become active next week, but not _when_ during the week. |
| 23:09.17 | lardman|home | that's true, it's tomorrow over there isn't it |
| 23:09.28 | lardman|home | derf: I know, wishful thinking |
| 23:09.30 | tontsa | 1am in monday right now |
| 23:10.04 | derf | Presumably you'll get e-mail. |
| 23:10.23 | lardman|home | good point |
| 23:11.24 | lardman|home | derf: I sidestepped the issues with memcpy() (though I still can't memcpy), now tweaking _checksum() to work with 16bit bytes |
| 23:12.44 | dragorn | jeremym: the latest version has file support |
| 23:12.49 | dragorn | jeremym: though I haven't tried it |
| 23:15.53 | tontsa | i wonder why nokia offers fm-radio app to n810.. or is there actually some special headset that works as antenna |
| 23:16.11 | timeless | anyone here use modest? |
| 23:16.59 | timeless | http://www.wirelessgalaxy.com/headsets/productdetails.asp?productid=102 |
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| 23:17.16 | Sho_ | timeless: The repos is per-OS, not per-Device, I guess |
| 23:17.31 | Sho_ | tontsa, that is |
| 23:17.35 | timeless | sho: i wasn't wondering :) |
| 23:17.43 | timeless | and while the repo is per os |
| 23:17.52 | timeless | you can easily make a package that means "n800" |
| 23:17.58 | timeless | and depend on the n800 package |
| 23:17.59 | Sho_ | timeless: Sorry, tab completion that completes to the most recently active user for the given prefix ;) |
| 23:18.20 | timeless | or better, make a package that provides "hardware-camera" and "hardware-fmradio" |
| 23:18.23 | timeless | and depend on that |
| 23:18.42 | timeless | sho: lesson learned, don't rely on tab completion ;-) |
| 23:22.10 | tontsa | i think that HDD-1 is discontinued for some reason |
| 23:23.05 | tontsa | atleast nokia.fi can't find the product anymore |
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| 23:25.18 | tontsa | not that either n800 or n810 product specs advertise fm-radio |
| 23:27.58 | tontsa | ohh.. in n800 it's "hidden" |
| 23:30.35 | tontsa | pity they changed that to lousy gps-radio in n810 :) |
| 23:31.13 | tontsa | i finally found out what was killing bluetooth connection, it's the os2008 built-in mail client |
| 23:31.43 | tontsa | everytime my mailbox had more than 3 or 4 messages, everything would get really slow and eventually bluetooth would be dropped |
| 23:31.54 | tontsa | although n810 still thought the bluetooth connection is on |
| 23:33.06 | lardman|home | what's 0^0? |
| 23:33.26 | tontsa | ? |
| 23:33.31 | lardman|home | should be 1 |
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| 23:33.38 | lardman|home | debugging crc code |
| 23:33.59 | tontsa | glad i'm not into math |
| 23:34.21 | tontsa | looks like an emoticon for non math guy |
| 23:34.29 | lardman|home | :) |
| 23:34.47 | lardman|home | I'm not having much luck with it, can't quite work out what's causing a bus error |
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| 23:37.03 | lardman|home | wierd, something in this is causing the bus error: crc_lookup[((crc_reg >> 24)&0xff)^data[j]] |
| 23:37.15 | lardman|home | but crc_lookup[0] works and =0 |
| 23:37.35 | lardman|home | and ((crc_reg >> 24)&0xff)^data[j] also works and =0 |
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| 23:45.11 | timeless | tontsa: you don't like 4=1+1+1? |
| 23:46.25 | tontsa | what's there to like |
| 23:47.49 | timeless | lardman, there are two operations "^", if you have a decent browser, you can ask it: javascript:[0^0,Math.pow(0,0)] -- 0,1 |
| 23:48.24 | lardman|home | timeless: Octave tells me 1, as expected |
| 23:48.31 | timeless | typically in cs, the first one is what ^ is, and the second one has the other meaning |
| 23:48.41 | timeless | s/the other meaning/some other notation/ |
| 23:49.32 | timeless | javascript:(3^1)==2 |
| 23:49.34 | timeless | true |
| 23:49.45 | lardman|home | interesting |
| 23:49.46 | timeless | in cs, ^ = exclusive or |
| 23:49.52 | lardman|home | ah, I see |
| 23:49.53 | timeless | (bitwise) |
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| 23:50.05 | lardman|home | in C I assume it's still pow() |
| 23:50.07 | timeless | along w/ | and & |
| 23:50.09 | timeless | no |
| 23:50.22 | timeless | c, js, just about every "normal" language uses it for bitwise |
| 23:50.34 | tontsa | ** is the math equilevant |
| 23:50.41 | timeless | some languages use ** for the math equivalent |
| 23:50.43 | timeless | some don't |
| 23:50.46 | timeless | (js doesn't) |
| 23:50.51 | lardman|home | aah, I use MATLAB too much |
| 23:51.21 | fysa | what's needed to get videocenter going on os2008? |
| 23:51.27 | timeless | anyway, in general, assume that js is close enough to C |
| 23:51.31 | lardman|home | makes more sense being a logical operation than raising to a power |
| 23:51.44 | timeless | js can easily be evaluated in most web browsers, as demo'd above |
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| 23:53.02 | timeless | http://silver.warwickcompsoc.co.uk/mozilla/misc/nserror |
| 23:53.09 | timeless | is an example of heavy abuse of creatures |
| 23:53.49 | timeless | http://viper.haque.net/~timeless/nsError/shlr.pl |
| 23:53.52 | timeless | is probably relevant |
| 23:54.07 | lardman|home | very strange, I can't do this: temp_index=0; crc_lookup[temp_index], but can do this: (ogg_uint32_t)*(&crc_lookup + temp_index) |
| 23:54.11 | timeless | << is typically how one encounters Math.pow |
| 23:54.30 | timeless | can't=compile error? |
| 23:54.39 | timeless | what's the type for crc_lookup? |
| 23:54.44 | lardman|home | produces a bus error |
| 23:54.55 | lardman|home | ogg_uint32_t |
| 23:55.11 | timeless | for crc_lookup? |
| 23:55.15 | lardman|home | the DSP compiler doesn't like using arrays to access memory it seems |
| 23:55.28 | lardman|home | yes, crc_lookup is an array of ogg_uint32_t |
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| 23:56.16 | timeless | 120 typedef __u32 uint32_t; |
| 23:56.24 | timeless | that just means it's a number, no? |
| 23:56.27 | timeless | not a pointer? |
| 23:56.37 | lardman|home | it's just a number, 32bit unsigned |
| 23:56.52 | timeless | why would you expect 4[5] to do something useful? |
| 23:57.25 | lardman|home | crc_lookup is an array of 256 elements |
| 23:57.30 | timeless | oddly, int y; int *x=&y; 0[x]; does something useful |
| 23:57.45 | timeless | gah, what's the type of the token |crc_lookup| |
| 23:57.59 | timeless | the whole type, not the type of something related to it |
| 23:58.06 | nomis | the [] operator is commutative, i.e. a[b] = b[a] |
| 23:58.18 | timeless | nomis: depends on the language :) |
| 23:58.21 | timeless | in js, it isn't :) |
| 23:58.21 | lardman|home | ah, it's an array of ogg_uint32_t, so it's a pointer I suppose |
| 23:59.02 | timeless | a bus error, eh? |
| 23:59.19 | timeless | only on arm, i'm assuming? |
| 23:59.26 | lardman|home | dsp |
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| 23:59.46 | skibur | seinor |
| 23:59.47 | cbx33 | hey all I just updated my howto for maemo 4.0 |