| 00:00.16 | l7 | just trying to do my homework before buying it |
| 00:00.30 | l7 | i suppose i could still file a bug report, but i'm not sure it would be useful |
| 00:00.30 | _|Nix|_ | elb: ... but I'm rapidly running out of consciousness, unfortunately ... |
| 00:01.38 | elb | _|Nix|_: all right, I should probably do some work, anyway |
| 00:01.43 | elb | if this works, I'll let you know |
| 00:02.09 | _|Nix|_ | elb: Alright. Cool. I'll get Pidgin built and running on i386 ... |
| 00:02.16 | _|Nix|_ | ... Chinook. |
| 00:02.28 | timelyx | that's the second lame app that has an Exit menu item |
| 00:02.38 | timelyx | not to mention the fact that it's a Status Bar applet! |
| 00:02.55 | _|Nix|_ | timelyx: What, Pidgin? |
| 00:03.17 | timelyx | devicescape |
| 00:03.20 | timelyx | the first being map |
| 00:03.25 | shackan | _|Nix|_: is piding ever going to do video? |
| 00:03.31 | shackan | *pidgin, sorry |
| 00:03.46 | _|Nix|_ | *shrug* |
| 00:03.53 | _|Nix|_ | No idea ... |
| 00:04.08 | shackan | upstream seems not to care |
| 00:04.30 | elb | shackan: if someone implements it, sure |
| 00:04.38 | timelyx | expecting downstream to care is absolutely unreasonable |
| 00:04.43 | timelyx | where do you guys get off? |
| 00:04.46 | shackan | elb: heh |
| 00:04.47 | elb | there are a lot of people willing to ask about it, but no one willing to implement it |
| 00:05.11 | elb | there seems to be a "those who can, don't care" problem with video |
| 00:05.32 | timelyx | that assumes people can |
| 00:05.54 | shackan | well, it's not rocket science |
| 00:06.05 | timelyx | it also assumes that everyone is idle |
| 00:06.14 | elb | it must be, because no one who asks about it ever does anything |
| 00:06.35 | timelyx | perhaps people who theoretically can practically speaking are busy working to earn money to pay for pizza so they (and their [potential] family) won't starve |
| 00:07.25 | shackan | well, nokia could well do something |
| 00:07.29 | _|Nix|_ | timelyx: If that were the situation of the majority, OSS would've collapsed a long time ago ... |
| 00:07.43 | pupnik | oss is all about caring |
| 00:07.55 | shackan | I mean, they popped a webcam in there, but no way to make calls with it |
| 00:07.55 | timelyx | _|Nix|_: the majority of oss is sponsored and hence directed |
| 00:08.10 | timelyx | it just happens that sponsors tend to have generally reasonable and useful interests |
| 00:08.10 | _|Nix|_ | timelyx: ... and it got there, how? |
| 00:08.11 | elb | Pidgin is just about entirely unsponsored |
| 00:08.15 | elb | and directed only by its developers |
| 00:08.38 | elb | ... none of whom have a web cam, or at least want to use one to voice chat |
| 00:08.54 | timelyx | _|Nix|_: *shrug*, mozilla has always been sponsored |
| 00:09.03 | timelyx | netbeans was always sponsored |
| 00:09.08 | timelyx | openoffice was always sponsored |
| 00:09.12 | timelyx | eclipse was always sponsored |
| 00:09.16 | pupnik | good points |
| 00:09.17 | timelyx | sp |
| 00:09.21 | timelyx | red hat was always sponsored |
| 00:09.21 | _|Nix|_ | GNU? |
| 00:09.27 | timelyx | ubuntu was always sponsored |
| 00:09.34 | daniels | timelyx: none of the first four projects you mention have a remotely viablecommunity |
| 00:09.53 | timelyx | daniels: is maemo a viable community? |
| 00:09.55 | shackan | elb: okay, but since nokia designed a webcam for the device, it's assumed there has to be a way to use it other than taking small blurred pictures when you're bored |
| 00:09.55 | daniels | the fifth has a passable one, the sixth is very similar to maemo, community-wise, but with more contributions, admittedly |
| 00:09.58 | daniels | timelyx: no. |
| 00:10.05 | timelyx | qt was always sponsored |
| 00:10.10 | shackan | hi daniels |
| 00:10.15 | daniels | yes, and it has no community contributors. |
| 00:10.16 | timelyx | (although i suppose calling qt a community is questionable) |
| 00:10.22 | daniels | shackan: hi |
| 00:10.22 | _Monkey | what's up, daniels |
| 00:10.56 | pupnik | thanks for all the help, daniels |
| 00:11.16 | elb | and, of all those projects, the only ones I use are moz and Ubuntu ;-) |
| 00:11.19 | daniels | pupnik: i hope you don't mean in this channel :) |
| 00:11.28 | pupnik | no, mailing list |
| 00:11.49 | timelyx | i'm not really sure what people would say about gcc |
| 00:11.56 | timelyx | practically speaking, at this point, it's sponsored |
| 00:12.06 | timelyx | but i don't really want to play that game, the same applies for the kernel today |
| 00:12.41 | timelyx | as for gnu, fsf is a sponsor, it might not sponsor many people, but it does technically sponsor at least 2 (iirc 4?) |
| 00:13.05 | daniels | pupnik: ah, np. i'm not subscribed these days, but feel free to email me directly on anything related to x or the display/video. |
| 00:13.09 | timelyx | but sure, for some amorphous definition of gnu ... |
| 00:13.27 | timelyx | cygwin/cygnus are another set of sponsoreds |
| 00:13.45 | pupnik | my issues are all resolved (pixel doubling headaches) |
| 00:13.51 | daniels | timelyx: it's not about who pays it, it's about the development style. the kernel may be purely corporate, but it's such a diverse range of interests as to not matter, and it's a brutally open source development style. |
| 00:13.56 | daniels | pupnik: ah, sweet. |
| 00:14.13 | daniels | pupnik: moz doesn't seem to have ever had anything remotely resembling an open source/community development style. |
| 00:14.18 | daniels | s/pupnik/timelyx/, sorry |
| 00:14.25 | shackan | roar, scratchbox is killing me |
| 00:14.35 | daniels | i mean, either you work for netscape/mozilla corporation, or you're irrelevant. |
| 00:14.38 | timelyx | bah, don't you have work tomorrow? |
| 00:14.47 | timelyx | that's untrue |
| 00:15.04 | timelyx | a large portion of the contributors don't work for moco (or its ancestors) |
| 00:15.18 | pupnik | most small-time open source projects are unsponsored and driven by idealism and 'want this to happen'-ness |
| 00:15.38 | timelyx | pupnik: and most die or fade away |
| 00:15.59 | pupnik | so, 90% of business ventures fail in the first year or two |
| 00:16.03 | daniels | timelyx: indeed, i do have work tomorrow. |
| 00:16.06 | shackan | so, I'm running a make file, is makes some object files, but those files are NOT MADE, even if the rule appears to be executed! but if I copy and paste the command from the terminal, the object file is there! please please I've tried for a week to get this damn thing to build |
| 00:16.07 | _|Nix|_ | Where's the Chinook i386 rootstrap? |
| 00:16.12 | elb | _|Nix|_: something is broken, but it ran |
| 00:16.23 | daniels | timelyx: well, from my outsider's perspective, i've seen moco seeing volunteers as free work, and that's incredibly depressing, regardless of who does it. |
| 00:16.23 | elb | (it uses a standard Gtk theme, looks like) |
| 00:16.31 | _|Nix|_ | elb: Aaaah, OK ... |
| 00:16.43 | timelyx | daniels: i've never worked for nscp/moco |
| 00:16.45 | daniels | shackan: if you haven't declared your dependencies, your rule might not ever get executed |
| 00:16.54 | timelyx | and i've never felt my work was abused by them |
| 00:16.55 | daniels | timelyx: indeed, but have you ever attempted to steer core browser issues? |
| 00:17.01 | timelyx | i do |
| 00:17.04 | timelyx | and have for years |
| 00:17.06 | _|Nix|_ | elb: Can you check which package provides af-sb-init.sh? |
| 00:17.08 | daniels | timelyx: no disrespect to bz, but it's not exactlymoco's core business |
| 00:17.12 | pupnik | shackan: it's hard to understand what is wrong by your description |
| 00:17.20 | timelyx | ? |
| 00:17.31 | elb | _|Nix|_: osso-af-sb-startup |
| 00:17.32 | _Monkey | well, osso-af-sb-startup is the package |
| 00:17.37 | timelyx | most of my life in mozilla hasn't been bugzilla developing |
| 00:17.44 | timelyx | that's a recent thing |
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| 00:17.49 | timelyx | mostly i was core and other webtools |
| 00:17.52 | daniels | timelyx: okay, i had a somewhatmistaken impression then; apologies |
| 00:17.58 | daniels | (god, this broken spacebar is getting old) |
| 00:18.00 | timelyx | i avoided bugzilla because i didn't want to learn sql |
| 00:18.08 | shackan | daniels, pupnik: I didn't write the makefiles, and outside of sb it builds correctly (it's the llvm compiler btw) |
| 00:18.09 | timelyx | daniels: heh, it replaced my t key on firday |
| 00:18.31 | timelyx | daniels: the problem is that you don't realize just how varied my interests are |
| 00:18.32 | zerojay | timelyx: It's about time. ;) |
| 00:18.39 | timelyx | yeah yeah |
| 00:18.44 | daniels | timelyx: i've been avoiding bugzilla because it'sbugzilla. hopefully (and i'm told it is) 3.0 is orders of magnitudebetter. |
| 00:18.47 | timelyx | i'm credited in webkit for work in gecko core that hyatt lifted |
| 00:19.04 | daniels | 'lifted' is a harsh word |
| 00:19.11 | zerojay | I'm working to push bugzilla 3.0 at work. |
| 00:19.19 | timelyx | he copied it and credited the people who touched the file |
| 00:19.21 | _|Nix|_ | elb: af-sb-init.sh start doesn't work for me. I get things like "qemu: Unsupported syscall: 307" |
| 00:19.28 | timelyx | i'm not calling it theft |
| 00:19.54 | shackan | pupnik , daniels: it is hard to understand for me too, 'make' appears to work correctly, but the files it's supposed to be building are not there (of course it complains when it tries to link them) |
| 00:19.54 | elb | _|Nix|_: I got a TON of errors, but it ran and splatted up an (ugly) desktop |
| 00:20.05 | daniels | timelyx: sounds like he's following the licenceconditions exactly? |
| 00:20.11 | timelyx | yes |
| 00:20.21 | _|Nix|_ | elb: Not for me ... I'll check the target params. |
| 00:20.38 | daniels | well, in that case, implying theft when he was merely following your wishes, seems a little harsh ... |
| 00:20.42 | elb | nothing can connect to dbus |
| 00:20.43 | pupnik | shackan: maybe it is a problem with your specific package - try compiling a known good app |
| 00:20.44 | elb | looks like |
| 00:20.49 | timelyx | i didn't mean to imply theft |
| 00:20.53 | timelyx | do you have a better word? |
| 00:20.58 | timelyx | "used"? |
| 00:20.59 | daniels | 'used'? :) |
| 00:21.02 | daniels | indeed. |
| 00:21.13 | daniels | possibly just a dialect issue, but lifted for me is stolen |
| 00:21.14 | elb | and it's crying about my UID |
| 00:21.19 | timelyx | using code doesn't give the right meaning in my mind |
| 00:21.28 | timelyx | to me, you use something once and discard it |
| 00:21.34 | timelyx | that's not what's happening here |
| 00:21.49 | shackan | pupnik: it is a problem with this package only, but I have no idea why the object files are not actually produced |
| 00:22.35 | timelyx | daniels: fwiw, i wasn't hired to work on osso's browser because i'm a bugzilla hacker... |
| 00:23.43 | shackan | timelyx: I fail to see the conflict |
| 00:23.46 | elb | "lifted" means stolen to me in the sense of physical property, but in the sense of code it means "taken out of one context to be used in another" |
| 00:24.16 | timelyx | shackan: local external perspective bug |
| 00:24.23 | timelyx | daniels's thinks i'm an ignored bugzilla developer |
| 00:24.27 | timelyx | because i know something about bugzilla |
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| 00:24.45 | zerojay | Oh, is that what's going on here? |
| 00:24.49 | daniels | timelyx: nor i x because i'm also an fd.o admin, but remember that a lot of people are hired merely because i have a degree, not because they've participated in projects for years and haveknowledge |
| 00:24.56 | timelyx | but that's not really me, i'm a gecko developer first, and a webtool developer later |
| 00:25.03 | daniels | timelyx: sigh, that's not really what i'm saying and you knowit |
| 00:25.07 | daniels | i guess i do have work tomorrow |
| 00:25.11 | daniels | -> bed |
| 00:25.15 | timelyx | i said that >30mins ago :) |
| 00:25.55 | zerojay | Maemo isn't a viable community? Mmkay. |
| 00:26.06 | *** join/#maemo l7 (n=l7@evil-wire.org) |
| 00:26.17 | timelyx | personally, i assume that some sizable portion of people nokia hired were hired for specific skill sets |
| 00:26.22 | timelyx | especially if they were relocated |
| 00:26.26 | timelyx | otherwise, why not pick random people? |
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| 00:46.30 | _|Nix|_ | Boy! I have to install hildon-desktop by hand? Weird! |
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| 00:54.06 | zerojay | Greasemonkey addon for Microb was just updated. |
| 00:57.56 | sciboy | Cool. |
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| 01:04.59 | edistar | quick question, is there a way to set the n770 as an AP? so as to let other wifi devices log in on the 770? |
| 01:06.07 | _|Nix|_ | You gotta love it when a script says "Everything seems to be ok." :o) |
| 01:06.17 | *** part/#maemo edistar (n=edistar@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 01:06.33 | _|Nix|_ | Reeks of famous last words :o) |
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| 01:11.11 | moofoo | hello, i just installed scratchbox and the chinook sdk, added the extras repo and installed python2.5-runtime. when i try to run the osso_test_app.py example, i get "D-Bus library appears to be incorrectly set up; failed to read machine uuid: Failed to open "/var/lib/dbus/machine-id": No such file or directory". is there a way to fix this? |
| 01:11.29 | pupnik | intel = evil |
| 01:12.47 | pupnik | dunno moofoo - maybe you have to start some dbus service / hal thingy |
| 01:14.39 | *** join/#maemo ScreamingN800 (n=user@d83-191-52-89.cust.tele2.es) |
| 01:18.03 | moofoo | atleast "af-sb-init.sh start" claimed it started dbus.. .and /etc/init.d/dbus does not seem to do anything .. :-( |
| 01:18.42 | moofoo | and a "/usr/bin/dbus-daemon --system" is actually running.. mh |
| 01:18.44 | *** join/#maemo pupnik (n=pupnik@dslb-084-059-043-022.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 01:19.14 | ScreamingN800 | Anyone tried downloading the N810 flash image and trying it on an N800 yet? Its a different version to the bugfix 2007 image - ergo it must be 2008. And supposedly 2008 is identical for N800 and N810. Or am I deluding myself? |
| 01:20.52 | astro76 | ScreamingN800, it's not out yet, but yes apparently it will be identical for both |
| 01:20.53 | moofoo | ah it looks as i have to set the environment variable that dbus-launch prints... hmm |
| 01:21.06 | moofoo | (as in DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS) |
| 01:22.52 | moofoo | another question: does the sdk only contain "Contact" and "Help" as applications or are the apps that supposed to be on the device missing because the 2008 release is not out yet? |
| 01:26.30 | pupnik | the sdk for the 770 did not include several apps |
| 01:26.51 | pupnik | install what you need from a repository |
| 01:27.13 | elb | _|Nix|_: as long as you're still up ... do you have a desktop starting? |
| 01:27.19 | elb | _|Nix|_: and, if so, is it as ugly as mine? ;-) |
| 01:27.36 | _|Nix|_ | elb: I'm running the installer script right now. |
| 01:27.44 | _|Nix|_ | elb: I couldn't reproduct whatever it does by hand. |
| 01:27.46 | moofoo | pupnik: what can i install from the repos? it seems i have installed everything with maemo or hildon in it.. |
| 01:27.52 | *** join/#maemo simon__ (n=simon@w208.wist.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 01:28.00 | moofoo | or am i missing additional repositories i have to add? |
| 01:28.07 | _|Nix|_ | I think I'm'na get rid of the chinook targets I made myself and keep the ones it generates. |
| 01:28.12 | _|Nix|_ | Assuming they're any good. |
| 01:29.26 | _|Nix|_ | OK. I'm'na call it. I gotta force myself to sleep ... |
| 01:29.34 | elb | I don't seem to have hildon-libs.pc |
| 01:29.48 | _|Nix|_ | elb: Nor should you. You should have hildon-1.pc |
| 01:29.54 | _|Nix|_ | elb: hildon-libs is deprecated. |
| 01:29.58 | elb | ahhh |
| 01:30.22 | elb | so this example is probably too old |
| 01:30.24 | _|Nix|_ | elb: I have hildon-libs in Pidgin because I also support Gregale. |
| 01:30.32 | ScreamingN800 | So I AM gonna be the first with 2008 on my N800 ;-) In fact it looks like you need a real N810 id to get it -anyone with an N810 gonna sneak me one so I can give it a shot-I promise I won't tell Nokia. |
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| 01:37.19 | *** join/#maemo Monkulus (n=Metatron@pool-68-160-254-184.nycmny.east.verizon.net) |
| 01:42.37 | moofoo | mh python still seems broken in the sdk (or dbus or what ever)... if i start a (hildon) python application it shows up with the default ugly gtk theme and afterwards dbus is totally broken and i can't even launch the "Contacts" application anymore.. |
| 01:44.40 | elb | _|Nix|_: running 'adduser' for my user and uid made the theme work |
| 01:46.44 | ScreamingN800 | I guess that´s a "No" then. Either that or 226 lurkers are scurrying off trying to get 2008 ahead of me ;-( |
| 01:50.42 | pupnik | congrats ScreamingN800 |
| 01:51.15 | ScreamingN800 | 4? |
| 01:52.21 | ScreamingN800 | NOT getting ahead of the game I get congrats? |
| 01:52.50 | shackan | ScreamingN800: you really can't wait? |
| 01:54.32 | ScreamingN800 | I''m like dying over here, aren't you? 400Mhz lower battery consumption, decent browser..need I go on? |
| 01:57.13 | ScreamingN800 | On another tack, am I the only one with big probs getting stuff from big tar's onto the MMC cards. Mine dies all the time. |
| 02:05.56 | derf | No. |
| 02:06.11 | derf | I've had problems with _any_ large amount of I/O on the MMC. |
| 02:07.11 | hircus | derf: MMC, as opposed to SD or SDHC? |
| 02:07.21 | ScreamingN800 | I've been trying to figure it out and I reckon the only logical place is misplaced spinlock in the mmc driver. I have some rather in-conclusive tests that suggest the driver goes into a non-responsive state when it gets hit by large quantities of data. Anyone got any other suggestions? I could file a lone bugzilla but soome other peoples experiences might help me frame it so the poor devs can actually find the problem. Xactly derf - tar is |
| 02:07.56 | ScreamingN800 | Just a minute let me see what I've got. |
| 02:08.35 | hircus | ScreamingN800: what was that you said earlier about N810 images? I missed the context, wasn't here |
| 02:09.23 | ScreamingN800 | TakeMS SD card 155x |
| 02:10.58 | ScreamingN800 | hircus: Wondering if we could snarf the flash image for the N810 and use it on N800. |
| 02:11.27 | hircus | ScreamingN800: ah ok. I thought you found a source already |
| 02:12.35 | hircus | that'd be interesting. it should work, more or less, unless the flasher is configured to sniff the device type |
| 02:14.27 | ScreamingN800 | I reckon the write rate to the MMC card is abysmal, far less than the read rate which suggests my thoughts abotvspinlocks may becright particularly since it just seems to stop dead when writing. |
| 02:15.30 | *** join/#maemo unique311 (n=unique31@ool-457ae2a6.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 02:15.30 | FMz_ | Anyone know if there is a cron daemon compiled for the n800? |
| 02:15.43 | ScreamingN800 | hircus: like I said, I (we <grin>) just need an illicit N810 code. I tried my N800 - no joy. |
| 02:16.32 | hircus | ScreamingN800: count me out -- sold my N800 already :) can't wait for the launch date |
| 02:16.58 | ScreamingN800 | s/becright/be right |
| 02:17.03 | hircus | anyone here thinking of doing Release Parties? like the ones Mozilla and GNOME user groups sometimes do |
| 02:17.28 | ScreamingN800 | s/abotvspinlocks/about spinlocks |
| 02:18.05 | hircus | if we can get Nokia to release press kits, with videos, brochures etc. |
| 02:18.25 | ScreamingN800 | hircus: I vote for virtual beer - lots of it! |
| 02:18.51 | hircus | ScreamingN800: haha :) |
| 02:19.15 | hircus | speaking of which, how many open source beers are there right now? I've seen mention of two, one European and one American |
| 02:19.40 | ScreamingN800 | free as in? |
| 02:20.31 | hircus | em? I said open source -- the exact brewing recipe is available for experimentation |
| 02:20.54 | FMz_ | How does one send Escape in osso-xterm? |
| 02:21.13 | hircus | FMz_: the back key, I think |
| 02:21.50 | FMz_ | Hrmm.. nope :( |
| 02:23.41 | ScreamingN800 | Curly arrow, 2 up from the little house, works for me |
| 02:24.06 | FMz_ | :) thanks.... just found it : |
| 02:24.52 | l7 | hircus: you sold your n800 to buy the n810? |
| 02:24.58 | l7 | ] |
| 02:25.03 | zerojay | l7: I'm doing the same. |
| 02:25.14 | l7 | zerojay: hmm, why? |
| 02:25.27 | zerojay | Like I said, to get the N810. |
| 02:25.36 | l7 | need for the brighter screen / keyboard or GPS? |
| 02:26.01 | ScreamingN800 | Hey you guys! THE SHIPS NOT SINKING! |
| 02:26.05 | zerojay | I do a heavy amount of chatting.. and with the N800, I'm far too passive because of being forced to use the touchscreen. |
| 02:26.26 | zerojay | My screen's getting wear from tapping on the virtual keyboard keys. |
| 02:26.34 | l7 | i'm just curious what features about the n810 are the most voluable to people |
| 02:26.38 | hircus | l7: yes. you can get a good price from international buyers (Eastern Europe or Asia), since they don't have access to the recent price cuts anyway |
| 02:26.50 | l7 | zerojay: even witha screen protector? |
| 02:27.03 | zerojay | l7: What screen protector? |
| 02:27.04 | _Monkey | i heard screen protector was yah thick and the credit card was able to work it out |
| 02:27.22 | l7 | hircus: ah, where can you sell your n800 internationally? |
| 02:27.24 | hircus | the keyboard, the transflective screen .. |
| 02:27.30 | hircus | l7: eBay |
| 02:27.44 | l7 | zerojay: those transparent, flexible screen protectors? |
| 02:27.49 | hircus | sold my 770 to a Malaysian, and 800 to a Ukrainian, both for about the same price -- $250 before shipping |
| 02:27.58 | zerojay | About the only things I don't like about the N810 is the fact that the camera doesn't rotate and the one less card slot. |
| 02:28.03 | zerojay | l7: I don't have one. |
| 02:28.25 | ScreamingN800 | Ooooh you just reminded me. The only reason I would get the N810 is the screen. CAN I SEND MY N800 BACK and get one fitted????? Please, pretty please. |
| 02:28.36 | l7 | zerojay: did you avoid getting one because they make operation more difficult? |
| 02:28.55 | hircus | I normally carry a pocket camera anyway, but yes, being able to reverse the camera, or even just change its tilt angle, would have been nice |
| 02:28.56 | zerojay | l7: No, I didn't purposely avoid them.. I just didn't get one. |
| 02:28.59 | l7 | hircus: geez, that's a pretty good price |
| 02:29.07 | l7 | zerojay: ah for what reason? |
| 02:29.33 | zerojay | l7: Didn't feel the need. |
| 02:29.33 | pupnik | how is the 810 screen better than the 800? |
| 02:29.33 | l7 | ah |
| 02:29.33 | zerojay | pupnik: It's glass and transflective. |
| 02:29.33 | hircus | l7: I was surprised myself, yes. my first N800 auction even got to > $300, but a Nigerian scammer got in at the end, bah. it got cancelled |
| 02:29.37 | hircus | pupnik: 20% brighter and transflexive |
| 02:29.42 | l7 | pupnik: it's brighter, if you need to use it outdoors in sun |
| 02:29.46 | hircus | zerojay: ah, it's actually glass? neat |
| 02:29.53 | zerojay | hircus: Supposedly. |
| 02:30.01 | hircus | l7: I included a case and two memory cards as well, which helps |
| 02:30.03 | pupnik | i thought transflective was a myth |
| 02:30.09 | l7 | hircus: ah, how did you find out he was a scammer? |
| 02:30.28 | zerojay | So on the N810, I wouldn't have the screen wearing out thanks to the virtual keyboard.. but it won't matter because I won't use it much now anyways. |
| 02:30.31 | hircus | l7: ebay cancelled the auction, and then he sent me a fake Paypal payment receipt |
| 02:30.39 | pupnik | so in sunlight, there is no backlight active on the N810? |
| 02:30.57 | zerojay | pupnik: The screen adjusts. |
| 02:31.29 | pupnik | does 'transflective' mean that in sunlight the screen uses incoming sunlight instead of a backlight? |
| 02:31.36 | hircus | thus the light sensor :). I love how the keyboard is backlit as well -- the kind of feature that on full-sized laptop, I've only seen on Macbook Pros |
| 02:32.18 | hircus | pupnik: yup. the reviews from people who have the device all said it's transflective, so hopefuly they're not all wrong |
| 02:32.50 | l7 | mmm, backlight |
| 02:33.25 | pupnik | I have never seen a transflective screen. If this is possible it means that battery usage is very low in sunlight? |
| 02:33.50 | hircus | pupnik: nice, yes? whereas it's the opposite with most other LCD screens |
| 02:33.56 | ScreamingN800 | Another by-the-way I used the thin plastic film you use for bookcovers as a screen-protector. €2 gets you enough for about 100 years. |
| 02:34.16 | hircus | I've only heard of a NEC laptop with trans LCD, but I'd think a lot of toughened laptops have it too |
| 02:34.53 | pupnik | then this screen makes the n810 useful in many situations where the n800 is not |
| 02:34.57 | hircus | would be nice if Nokia would give the option to buy the device with screen protectors pre-installed .. |
| 02:35.03 | hircus | .. for people with clumsy fingers like yours truly |
| 02:35.04 | l7 | pupnik: i hear some GPS units use a transflexive screen |
| 02:36.30 | pupnik | i think nokia is a hero for making linux handhelds |
| 02:36.45 | pupnik | like sharp was |
| 02:37.14 | pupnik | lets all make them sell |
| 02:37.31 | ScreamingN800 | Here here.. Sharp were, but eventually chickened out. |
| 02:38.24 | hircus | I'd second that too. once the Modest client is out, and we get better contacts management and syncing, it'd be brilliant |
| 02:38.27 | l7 | i think sharp still sells some of those pda in japan |
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| 02:38.33 | ScreamingN800 | I loved my zaurus to death-literally-it fell apart. |
| 02:38.44 | pupnik | i have persuaded a few people to buy n800s |
| 02:39.40 | ScreamingN800 | n800 is way better, cept the screen. youncould read the z in daylight. |
| 02:39.52 | l7 | http://www.connectedhomemag.com/Mobile/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=25863 |
| 02:40.17 | l7 | it seems sony was using transflexive screens in it's PDAs as early as 2002 |
| 02:40.41 | hircus | l7: ah. pity those did not work out too, the Cliés were way better than the Palms of the time |
| 02:41.39 | l7 | hircus: i guess so, i never liked Sony's premium pricing strategies and proprietary nature |
| 02:41.55 | l7 | hurrah for Nokia :) |
| 02:42.00 | hircus | l7: ah yes, though the PDAs are too small to take a memory stick, thankfully :P |
| 02:42.07 | l7 | heh |
| 02:42.17 | FMz_ | Does anybody have any suggestions as to the best way to automatically download a podcast to my n800 each day? |
| 02:42.18 | hircus | I bought the 770 just for the screen, actually |
| 02:42.19 | l7 | don't get me started on memory sticks! >:) |
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| 02:42.40 | hircus | after all those laptop manufacturers moving to glossy just because that's the only thing they can get from LCD makers |
| 02:42.57 | hircus | .. we get this beautiful bright (well, not relative to N800 and N810 but still), super-sharp screen |
| 02:43.02 | l7 | FMz_: maybe download it to your PC and automatically sync? |
| 02:43.35 | l7 | depends on how often you use your PC though |
| 02:43.52 | hircus | FMz_: or if you have wi-fi, some of the multimedia players do podcasts, I think |
| 02:43.54 | hircus | UKMP or Kagu? |
| 02:44.07 | FMz_ | Well, I want to do it wirelessly... I want to ultimately be able to leave my Nokia in the car in the garage (have it charge in there). I spend a lot of time in the car and don't want to bother moving the charger from place to place. |
| 02:44.38 | FMz_ | Canola does podcasts, but it doesn't automatically download the file... it just streams when you start it. |
| 02:45.00 | FMz_ | Which is less than desirable when on the road ;) |
| 02:46.13 | hircus | FMz_: ah, I forgot -- gPodder (which I use on my Linux desktop) has a Maemo port as well |
| 02:46.34 | FMz_ | And that downloads them on a schedule? |
| 02:46.41 | FMz_ | automatically |
| 02:46.51 | hircus | it's quite good, though there's one feature missing -- you can tell it to remove a podcast episode, but not to remove it but maintain the link so you can redownload |
| 02:47.18 | l7 | itunes has that failing too |
| 02:47.23 | hircus | FMz_: um, that's still missing |
| 02:47.35 | hircus | l7: though the gpodder author is more responsive to feedbacks :) |
| 02:48.14 | hircus | FMz_: ah, checking the desktop version and it does not seem to have it. there's an option to download on startup |
| 02:48.47 | hircus | .. so you can script it if you want, with cron. send a SIGTERM signal to terminate the application and then restart it every day |
| 02:48.59 | FMz_ | Hmm... I wonder how a PHP "daemon" (i.e. constantly running PHP script with 10 minute delays) would work |
| 02:50.05 | l7 | hircus: yeah i try to avoid itunes |
| 02:50.12 | l7 | not entirely possible on a mac though |
| 02:50.17 | ScreamingN800 | hircus I thought we didnt have a cron for thre n800 |
| 02:50.18 | l7 | http://google-cnet.com.com/cell-phone-and-smart/nokia-n800-navigation-kit/4505-6448_7-32516755.html?tag=b_readfull |
| 02:50.32 | hircus | l7: really, how so? |
| 02:50.33 | l7 | cnet is rather harsh towards the GPS kit |
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| 02:51.16 | hircus | I mean, Finder now has CoverFlow, but as I understand it it's just a library shared by iTunes and Finder |
| 02:51.34 | hircus | ScreamingN800: you can install it, though |
| 02:51.39 | hircus | just go to red pill mode |
| 02:51.53 | hircus | would be nice to have a cron editor, but not that hard to read the config files anyway |
| 02:52.32 | l7 | hircus: well having your music and photos and itunes and iphoto makes things more convenient in some ways |
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| 02:52.59 | hircus | l7: ah yes, there's that |
| 02:53.18 | l7 | i've been wanting to find an open alternative though |
| 02:53.47 | l7 | can you sync your music easily with an open source itunes clone to the n800? |
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| 02:54.15 | l7 | i don't mind copy paste, but sometimes i get too lazy |
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| 02:55.34 | hircus | l7: on Linux, with Rhythmbox you can |
| 02:56.00 | hircus | it can treat any removable storage as a portable music collection, and sync to that -- even with transcoding |
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| 02:56.18 | hircus | so you can keep your music on the desktop in lossless format and transcode on the fly for the device |
| 02:56.43 | hircus | you don't get integrated play count and rating though |
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| 02:57.15 | l7 | hircus: hrm, keeping everything in loseless is a cool feature... |
| 02:57.45 | l7 | if i get a n800 though , i might have to migrate my desktop to linux... |
| 02:58.10 | hircus | l7: I'd welcome you to the club, but .. why? |
| 02:58.26 | l7 | or i could get an ipod touch and stick with apple gear... |
| 02:59.13 | hircus | ah, the integration thing |
| 02:59.24 | l7 | yeah exactly :) |
| 02:59.24 | hircus | you can run Rhythmbox on a Mac. it'd just look out of place |
| 02:59.30 | l7 | heh |
| 02:59.54 | hircus | or use the KDE program, err.. what's it called |
| 03:00.01 | hircus | KDE 4 can run natively on a Mac |
| 03:00.03 | l7 | yeah i dunno you can do more on an n800 though |
| 03:00.36 | l7 | how fast is the n800's browser by the way? |
| 03:01.04 | hircus | quite fast on most sites, as long as it's not flash-heavy |
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| 03:01.31 | l7 | i tried it out in the nokia store and for some reason the browser lagged horribly |
| 03:02.15 | l7 | how many windows can you have open at the same time before it starts to bog down? |
| 03:02.23 | ScreamingN800 | hircus: not according to #maemo as of 10 Nov. General Antilles and zoran. You know some repo with it? |
| 03:02.27 | l7 | it might have just been a lslow connection at t with the store's wifi |
| 03:02.58 | hircus | ScreamingN800: ah, maybe it's just my perspective as a long-time Linux user |
| 03:03.10 | hircus | I avoid like plague sites that are not standards-compliant :) |
| 03:03.30 | l7 | even wikipedia was really slow |
| 03:03.33 | hircus | l7: the standard install comes with the Opera browser. I switched to MicroB which will be default in OS 2008 |
| 03:03.48 | hircus | that might be it too. Wikipedia was decent on both browsers I tested |
| 03:03.55 | l7 | i suspect their wifi... |
| 03:04.37 | hircus | heh, you guys haven't seen my university's public wifi |
| 03:04.41 | ScreamingN800 | hircus Same perspective..thas why I'm missing it. |
| 03:05.02 | ScreamingN800 | s/thas/that's |
| 03:05.02 | hircus | a few years ago, voted #1 campus wifi by Intel. it's an equal opportunity hater -- Mac, Windows and Linux clients all have problems with it |
| 03:06.42 | FMz_ | OK, I've figured it out. I have my server pull down the podcasts as usual, rename them to include the date. Install PHP and wget on the n800, and create a php script to run scp and pull down any files from my server with the date in the filename. Then, each morning before I leave for work (pending a n800 cron install), and it will pull everything down for that day. |
| 03:07.07 | FMz_ | s/wget/NULL |
| 03:08.02 | hircus | FMz_: why not have your server push to the N800? then you don't need any additional software |
| 03:08.04 | l7 | hrm, that's a cool idea |
| 03:08.11 | hircus | FMz_: oh, you might want to install rsync |
| 03:08.21 | hircus | or unison -- is unison ported? |
| 03:08.22 | *** join/#maemo doublec (n=doublec@203-211-107-93.ue.woosh.co.nz) |
| 03:08.29 | FMz_ | hircus: Mainly because I can't set a static IP on the n800, so my server wouldn't know what to push to. |
| 03:09.05 | lcdd | pulling works better in theory since the tablet is not always reachable |
| 03:09.07 | pupnik | i used unison to do incremental backups of a company server |
| 03:09.12 | pupnik | it was convenient |
| 03:09.17 | hircus | FMz_: what router do you use? |
| 03:09.31 | hircus | most let you do static DHCP assignments, so your N800 always get the same IP |
| 03:10.06 | FMz_ | Crappy ISP provided... only problem with that is, the network doesn't belong to me, and my roommate is a net-nazi / BOFH. |
| 03:10.18 | hircus | FMz_: I feel your pain then. ugh |
| 03:10.42 | FMz_ | I think my plan might work, provided I can get PHP to scp the files. |
| 03:10.58 | hircus | I have a nice flatmate, but took me a while to get him to accept that if he set his Bittorrent upload speed too high, it screws up the router |
| 03:11.24 | hircus | FMz_: just use bash scripts if all you want is to pull files |
| 03:11.36 | FMz_ | I'm not too good at bash scripts... |
| 03:11.43 | hircus | how about Python? |
| 03:11.44 | _Monkey | Python is at pymaemo.garage.maemo.org! |
| 03:11.58 | FMz_ | lol, same for Python, never used it. |
| 03:12.08 | hircus | PHP is an awfully-designed language -- even Python would complain if you use an undeclared variable |
| 03:12.18 | hircus | PHP would just silently assign it a default value |
| 03:12.45 | hircus | so y = x + 42 <-- result is 42 since the undeclared x is used as an integer |
| 03:12.48 | FMz_ | I'm fine with that hircus... :) As long as I know it will do it. PHP still complains tho... just sends a warning, no fatal. |
| 03:13.02 | pupnik | damn hallucinations |
| 03:13.13 | FMz_ | I use @$undeclaredvar a lot. |
| 03:13.18 | hircus | eek |
| 03:13.36 | FMz_ | Meh, as long as it's accounted for and I know what's going on with it, it's fine. |
| 03:13.53 | hircus | to each his own :) I have a personal allergy to languages with funny behaviors and $@# variable types .. Perl and PHP |
| 03:14.20 | FMz_ | $a = (@$a == '') ? '1' : $a; |
| 03:14.34 | FMz_ | ^ if $a is undeclared, I declare it without throwing any errors... |
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| 03:15.40 | rubiks | is the a usb to mini usb converter? |
| 03:15.50 | rubiks | there |
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| 03:18.21 | hircus | FMz_: that is neat. I know people who know their way around Perl and PHP, it's just that I'd be less comfortable with reusing someone else's library |
| 03:18.35 | rubiks | How would I connect a flash drive to my n800? |
| 03:18.56 | l7 | hmm |
| 03:20.49 | hircus | FMz_: if 'a' not in dir(): a = 1 |
| 03:21.24 | hircus | rubiks: not sure you can do that with N800 -- it's not supposed to have USB on-the-go support |
| 03:21.49 | rubiks | o ok |
| 03:21.58 | FMz_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:22.37 | rubiks | so what is the cable that came with the nokia? |
| 03:22.52 | hircus | FMz_: Python to do the same thing you did |
| 03:22.58 | rubiks | miniusb with usb? |
| 03:23.06 | rubiks | cable |
| 03:23.07 | FMz_ | Ahh... :) Shows how little I know about Py :P |
| 03:23.18 | hircus | rubiks: lets you connect your N800 to your PC |
| 03:23.26 | hircus | and make it act like a mass-storage device |
| 03:24.16 | hircus | FMz_: it's a neat language to learn -- almost as good for, say, string processing as Perl, and you can use techniques from more theoretical functional languages |
| 03:24.25 | hircus | (well, not in an optimized way, but still, possible) |
| 03:25.31 | FMz_ | If I were to learn a language, I think I'd have to go back to good ol |
| 03:25.37 | FMz_ | ol' C... |
| 03:26.03 | rubiks | for what? power? |
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| 03:26.18 | FMz_ | I looked into Ruby... but... Meh, if I'm going to put the time into learning a language, I may as well use what I already know, and get the most functionality. |
| 03:26.46 | hircus | FMz_: uh, do yourself a favour and at least learn C++ rather than plain C :) |
| 03:26.52 | FMz_ | Hmm... not so much processing efficiency "power"... but raw ability. |
| 03:27.49 | FMz_ | I learned C and C++ around the ages of 13 and 14, I just forgot most of it. |
| 03:28.02 | FMz_ | Used to program shareware with my father... heh |
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| 03:46.03 | zerojay | FMz_: Er.. is there a reason you aren't using video center for your podcast downloading? |
| 03:46.39 | tuxthepenguin | Hi all, I've run into a snag trying to setup maemo SDK 3.1 so I can then upgrade it to 3.2 |
| 03:47.11 | *** join/#maemo hfwilke_ (n=hfwilke@158.sub-70-218-59.myvzw.com) |
| 03:48.12 | FMz_ | zerojay: Does it download them automatically? |
| 03:48.52 | zerojay | It shows you when new shows are available. One tap and you've got it. |
| 03:49.11 | tuxthepenguin | scratchbox is in, maemo SDK install script ran successfully and recommended I do fakeroot apt-get install of maemo-explicit on each of the two scratchbox configs (SDK_ARMEL and X86). The X86 one went without a hitch but the SDK_ARMEL one is giving me errors about various packages including some configuration errors. The first error appearing seems to be: Updating the IM modules list for GTK+-2.4.0.../usr/sbin/up |
| 03:49.15 | FMz_ | Wow... sounds perfect... Where do I download it? |
| 03:49.38 | zerojay | Despite the name, it works for audio podcasts too. |
| 03:49.51 | zerojay | I believe it's http://videocenter.garage.maemo.org |
| 03:50.25 | FMz_ | Cool, taking a look |
| 03:50.57 | zerojay | http://www.jablet.net/videocenter/ <-- some simple one click installs for certain podcasts for video center... just a database at the moment, ignore the look of it. |
| 03:51.44 | FMz_ | I'm digging the idea of this... did you have anything to do with the dev? |
| 03:52.15 | zerojay | No, but the Video Center one click installs thing is mine. |
| 03:52.33 | FMz_ | Awesome.. thanks man :) |
| 03:52.46 | *** join/#maemo Luria (n=ibnNagre@pool-68-160-254-184.nycmny.east.verizon.net) |
| 03:52.54 | zerojay | Part of a set of services I'm going to offer to tablet users... including Jabber (with AIM, MSN, others).. and whatever else people want. |
| 03:53.41 | zerojay | Just starting now.. Jabber server is up and available for anyone interested. |
| 03:54.17 | Luria | sigh, i wish rtcomm supported aim, yahoo, etc. i don't like transports and i don't like running pidgin. |
| 03:54.33 | zerojay | Transports are fine. |
| 03:54.38 | zerojay | Set it up once and forget it. |
| 03:54.57 | zerojay | I don't like running pidgin either. |
| 03:55.12 | Luria | of course, responding to an incoming chat takes way too long. |
| 03:55.37 | zerojay | It's a little slow, sure.. not Jabber's fault though. |
| 03:55.51 | zerojay | Probably won't be there anymore on IT2008. |
| 03:56.00 | Luria | no, complaining about rtcomm |
| 03:56.37 | zerojay | The extra speed in the IT2008 update combined with some fixes.. we might see that weird delay disappear completely. |
| 03:56.55 | FMz_ | Can't find how to add my podcast feed to it =/ |
| 03:57.24 | zerojay | FMz_: Add your podcast feed to.. the video center program or my site? |
| 03:57.46 | FMz_ | The program.... there doesn't seem to be an option. Or I'm an idiot.. heh |
| 03:58.31 | zerojay | Application menu while in initial screen (new videos/saved videos) -> Tools -> Services |
| 03:58.45 | zerojay | FMz_: If you want me to make it easier for ya, just give me the URL to your podcast. |
| 03:58.51 | zerojay | I'll add it to the database. :) |
| 03:59.26 | zerojay | Once it's added, one click, it's in. |
| 03:59.42 | FMz_ | http://curry.podshow.com/wp-rss2.php << Adam Curry's Daily Source Code... I have no idea how the hell I missed the menu option.. lol |
| 03:59.48 | Luria | i don't like transports cause 1)i already have accounts everywhere and thus everyone would have to readd me. 2)i already have 3 jabber accounts and 3)two of my email accounts already map to jabber accounts(gmail and dreamhost). more adds more confusion. |
| 04:00.01 | zerojay | Luria: No, they don't. |
| 04:00.20 | zerojay | Oh, and the Dreamhost Jabber server blows. |
| 04:00.35 | Luria | they don't in resposw to what? |
| 04:01.13 | zerojay | If you've got people on AIM/MSN and others.. they don't have to be readded if you use transports (that's something that happens on Dreamhost though). |
| 04:01.33 | zerojay | I was going to use the Dreamhost server for hosting Jabber, but it's horrid. |
| 04:01.58 | FMz_ | zerojay: Kudos, this program rocks... I love it already. |
| 04:02.00 | Luria | no kidding, but it maps to my imap account which is firstname@lastname.com . you can understand why i'd be reluctant to give that up. |
| 04:02.15 | zerojay | No, not really. |
| 04:02.36 | Luria | ps i'm slow on the n800 thumb board. |
| 04:02.42 | zerojay | That's fine. :) |
| 04:02.43 | *** join/#maemo Synchronicity (n=Stick@unaffiliated/relate) |
| 04:02.50 | zerojay | FMz_: Didn't forget about you, hang on. ;) |
| 04:03.38 | zerojay | FMz_: I've got an RSS feed for the database so that when new shows are added, you can also add it directly from the RSS feed reader. |
| 04:03.53 | Luria | you don't understand why having an account that maps isomorphically to my full name isn't of value ? |
| 04:04.14 | zerojay | Luria: Not when the server it's hosted on is as bad as the Dreamhost server is. |
| 04:04.24 | tuxthepenguin | Any maemo devlopers here? Any ideas on the problem I described? |
| 04:04.24 | Luria | ps, does anyone else use mauku ? |
| 04:04.32 | zerojay | Luria: I am. |
| 04:04.46 | Luria | what do you think? |
| 04:05.30 | FMz_ | zerojay: I found it, no worries... but more people need to listen to the DSC anyway ;) |
| 04:05.37 | FMz_ | Thanks again man, this is perfect. |
| 04:05.49 | Luria | yes, it's a cheap host, but sufficient for a vanity/personal online storage. |
| 04:05.57 | zerojay | Luria: I like it, but the most recent version is giving me problems where it runs away with my CPU use. |
| 04:07.11 | Luria | the one thing that is really unique about jaiku - the insertion and merging of rss feeds - doesn't work. |
| 04:07.48 | zerojay | Um.. works for me. |
| 04:08.32 | Luria | can't see the source of the rss post, the content beyond the title, or click a link to actually read what it's all about |
| 04:08.50 | zerojay | In Mauku, perhaps. |
| 04:08.55 | Luria | that's not working. |
| 04:08.57 | zerojay | I know you can definitely do that on the site. |
| 04:09.21 | zerojay | FMz_: Well, if you haven't added it already, it's in the DB now. |
| 04:09.52 | Luria | of course. that's why i asked about mauku |
| 04:09.55 | FMz_ | Awesome... thanks man. |
| 04:10.10 | zerojay | I think Mauku broke someting recently.. most of the time, I'm able to click on an RSS feed and it takes me to the Jaiku site.. but that doesn't seem to work anymore. |
| 04:10.14 | zerojay | np |
| 04:10.26 | FMz_ | I just added the Dawn and Drew show, also. Highly recommended. |
| 04:11.00 | Luria | yeah, i thought it used to do that. then i thought i was imagining it. |
| 04:11.08 | zerojay | No, it did. |
| 04:11.14 | zerojay | Not sure what happened. |
| 04:12.14 | FMz_ | This is perfect zerojay... wow, exactly what I needed. Everyone download it! |
| 04:12.52 | zerojay | FMz_: The video stuff isn't perfect. Some feeds only work in Media player if streamed.. some if downloaded, some only in Mplayer, etc... |
| 04:12.59 | Luria | are you zerojay on jaiku too? i'll add you. |
| 04:13.13 | zerojay | I tried to mark those with the video icons in the DB.. I'm mainly trying to add stuff that works. |
| 04:13.19 | zerojay | Luria: Sure. |
| 04:13.47 | zerojay | <--- on Jaiku |
| 04:14.34 | FMz_ | Does Mplayer play mp4s? |
| 04:14.47 | Luria | there you are :-) |
| 04:15.21 | Luria | not if you are trying to play that itt 810 video. |
| 04:15.37 | zerojay | FMz_: Dawn And Drew added. |
| 04:15.43 | Luria | i thought that was a bit ironic. |
| 04:15.52 | FMz_ | You're a star zerojay :) |
| 04:16.04 | zerojay | Hah. |
| 04:16.28 | FMz_ | http://media.podshow.com/media/240/episodes/86644/dawnanddrew-86644-11-09-2007.mp4 << won't play |
| 04:16.42 | FMz_ | But, that's not your fault... downloading Mplayer to try it now |
| 04:16.59 | zerojay | Try it with mplayer.. and set Video Center to use External Player. |
| 04:18.46 | Luria | i'm on my n800. ill give it a shot. |
| 04:18.57 | FMz_ | Cool :) |
| 04:19.06 | FMz_ | I might try Kagu too, if Mplayer does't work. |
| 04:20.39 | Luria | no go |
| 04:21.19 | zerojay | Might be too high a bitrate or resolution or something. |
| 04:22.00 | FMz_ | Possibly. No big deal, really. I mainly want the podcasts anyway. |
| 04:22.03 | Luria | i can paste the output, but it's a lot |
| 04:27.41 | Luria | or not. |
| 04:27.55 | FMz_ | ? |
| 04:28.40 | Luria | i can paste the mplayer output, if youd like |
| 04:29.20 | FMz_ | To be honest, I wouldn't have the first clue as to what to do with it... heh =/ |
| 04:29.46 | Luria | but it doesn't seem to like the video stream. |
| 04:30.21 | FMz_ | Thanks for the offer though :) |
| 04:30.34 | Luria | <PROTECTED> |
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| 04:51.05 | FMz_ | zerojay: Something you might want to put in the ear of the Media Center devs... a "mark all as read" button :) |
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| 05:03.59 | zerojay | FMz_: You mean like the one in the application menu? ;) |
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| 05:09.30 | FMz_ | Now that one I really can't find :P |
| 05:09.53 | zerojay | There's three different views in the program. |
| 05:09.58 | zerojay | One split in the middle. |
| 05:10.24 | zerojay | wait, hang on |
| 05:10.26 | FMz_ | Wow... I swear, this stuff just starts working when you say something about it. |
| 05:10.32 | zerojay | lol |
| 05:11.03 | zerojay | Click on Internet Videos. Once you are there, you can open the application menu and find it under File. |
| 05:11.16 | zerojay | Mark as watched. |
| 05:11.32 | FMz_ | Got it, awesome, thanks :) |
| 05:11.34 | zerojay | If you highlight the show and not just a particular episode, it will mark all of that show as watched. |
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| 05:21.42 | FMz_ | K, too much excitement for me... bedtime. Thanks again for all the help zerojay. Enjoy :) |
| 05:25.56 | zerojay | FMz_: Same here. Later. |
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| 05:34.23 | lopz | bye |
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| 06:07.17 | Syntra | Hey guys |
| 06:07.27 | Syntra | Is it possible to put the N800 into USB Host mode? |
| 06:07.34 | Syntra | I've seen it done on the 770 |
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| 06:34.59 | kulve | it's possible. Search the mailing list |
| 06:35.11 | kulve | I'm not sure how easy though |
| 06:36.28 | kulve | Syntra: this thread I think: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-developers/2007-October/thread.html#11962 |
| 06:36.56 | Syntra | Neat! |
| 06:37.17 | Syntra | I would like to know that its fully working before buying anything, though |
| 06:37.26 | Syntra | I wanna get a USB keyboard, by the way. |
| 06:37.54 | kulve | It's probably not "fully working".. |
| 06:38.11 | kulve | like the thread title says, "experimental" |
| 06:39.17 | kulve | why not bt keybaord? |
| 06:39.37 | Syntra | Lack of Money. |
| 06:39.56 | kulve | oh, the same old. :) |
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| 06:40.00 | Syntra | XD |
| 06:40.30 | Syntra | I found like these Dell Bluetooth keyboards on eBay for like 30$, but I've yet to find out if there HID or anything |
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| 06:45.12 | Tb0n3 | :) |
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| 08:09.59 | doc|home | does ekiga work on the n800? |
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| 08:18.46 | doc|home | seems it does |
| 08:18.53 | doc|home | alpha |
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| 08:22.53 | Khertan | Hi |
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| 08:45.17 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
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| 08:58.23 | DRoBeR | Good morning. |
| 09:04.26 | timelyx | bad morning |
| 09:04.26 | timelyx | could someone please help me? |
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| 09:21.46 | hhedberg | I bet you can save me a lot of time: How does osso-contact-plugin (in navigator panel) know that there is new email available? Some kind of D-BUS signal maybe? (It seems that the source is not available.) Is that going to be changed when modest arrives? |
| 09:22.21 | timelyx | modest is open source, although it's spread across two repositories |
| 09:22.41 | timelyx | hhedberg: are you oulu.nokia? |
| 09:22.48 | timelyx | if so, i can save you and myself time |
| 09:22.58 | hhedberg | timelyx, no. :) |
| 09:24.28 | timelyx | the useful part of modest is here: |
| 09:24.31 | timelyx | http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/source/modest/modest/trunk/ |
| 09:24.36 | timelyx | you should be able to do a find or search to find what interests you |
| 09:24.53 | timelyx | the part not in garage is tinymail (mail core) |
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| 09:26.39 | timelyx | offhand, i don't see the relevant bit, you might want to look through the dbus bits |
| 09:26.45 | AD-N770 | bon dia / good morning |
| 09:26.47 | matmo | morning all. Is anyone having problems reaching maemo.org? |
| 09:26.57 | timelyx | garage was fine |
| 09:26.59 | timelyx | maemo.org is fine |
| 09:27.01 | timelyx | repository was fine |
| 09:27.07 | matmo | yeah garage ok |
| 09:27.09 | timelyx | bugzilla was fine |
| 09:27.32 | X-Fade | maemo.org works for me. |
| 09:27.45 | matmo | X-Fade: ok, thanks |
| 09:28.42 | hhedberg | however, not sure if the modest supports osso-contact-plugin yet. |
| 09:28.55 | matmo | strange thing is I can't reach it but my router is getting hit by maemo.org on http port |
| 09:29.41 | matmo | each line in the routers security log ends with " -Black List Defens" |
| 09:29.58 | suihkulokki | sounds very much like a problem at your end |
| 09:30.07 | matmo | I obviously have not blacklisted maemo :-))) |
| 09:30.07 | timelyx | hhedberg: i'm pretty sure it does |
| 09:33.23 | X-Fade | hhedberg: I'm looking into your screenshot upload bug atm. |
| 09:33.42 | matmo | hmmm, last leg on tracert to maemo.org is: ufi10189.fi.customer.alter.net [62.176.60.94] |
| 09:34.50 | X-Fade | hhedberg: in the mean while, I removed the corrupted screenshot. |
| 09:35.49 | hhedberg | x-fade: thanks. now i can mess the entry again :) |
| 09:36.18 | X-Fade | hhedberg: I'm testing some things in your entry, so things might break again in the next few minutes ;) |
| 09:36.47 | hhedberg | x-fade: sound excellent ;) well, there is two Mauku entries in the 2006 catalog... |
| 09:37.24 | timelyx | so, can someone please explain maemo.org's karma rankings for news items? :) |
| 09:37.47 | X-Fade | hhedberg: Which one do you want removed? |
| 09:39.09 | hhedberg | x-fade, I do not know, since they have exactly the same unix name. |
| 09:39.56 | X-Fade | hhedberg: Ok, i'll check them based on guid. |
| 09:40.38 | hhedberg | x-fade: of course I like more the entry with the 5 stars rating. :) |
| 09:41.36 | hhedberg | but the entry with the shorter description is the one I have not been able to modify because the other entry with the same name has precedence. |
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| 09:42.43 | rothiel | Hi guys :) |
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| 09:44.42 | hhedberg | x-fade: Thanks for you help. BTW, you may know that I have expressed my dissatisfaction with the new division of the Downloads section. It is not very nice to enter and update the same application data three times (for every different IT OS release). |
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| 09:48.00 | X-Fade | hhedberg: Now you only have 1 mauku in 2006.. |
| 09:48.45 | hhedberg | x-fade: very good. I just updated the version info of it. |
| 09:55.23 | matmo | problem solved, bloody belkin routers |
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| 09:58.08 | teprrr | kind of offtopic, but can anyone clarify what are the main differences between jaiku and twitter? besides that jaiku has been developed in Finland.. |
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| 10:04.44 | hhedberg | teprrr, I think it is the possibility to comment other users' Jaikus (messages). And of course the native Maemo application supporting jaiku. :) |
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| 10:06.25 | timelyx | > But memorial day (or whatever it is)? Hello? Ask anyone in Europe when that day is and you get a "What's Memorial day? Did they move our national holiday again?" |
| 10:14.13 | teprrr | hhedberg, ah, I see. and looks like Jaiku has channels while twitter doesn't. or at least their page doesn't seem to talk much about it anyways... |
| 10:20.48 | hhedberg | teprrr, yes, channels are another thing that separates twitter and jaiku. |
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| 10:21.48 | Molagi | hello |
| 10:21.56 | Molagi | im having some problems with media converter |
| 10:22.07 | Molagi | im trying to execute it on windows xp |
| 10:22.13 | Molagi | and nothing happens |
| 10:23.05 | teprrr | hhedberg, looking at the code and just wondering. is it normal procedure to use com.nokia. prefix for dbus for 3rd party apps? |
| 10:23.33 | Molagi | oh damn |
| 10:23.34 | Molagi | i need java |
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| 10:26.49 | Jaffa | timelyx: yesterday was Remembrance Sunday in the UK - suppose that's equivalent to Memorial Day. |
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| 10:27.59 | czr | teprrr, no |
| 10:28.08 | hhedberg | teprrr: The tutorial encourages to use different prefix, but I think it is a bug. At least the osso_initialize() adds the com.nokia prefix to the application name and uses it as a DBUS name. If the app does not use the com.nokia prefix, it is killed by the system after few seconds, or it must register a DBUS callback handler with its own prefix to receive top_application notify. Of course, the libosso_initialize may be designed wrong. |
| 10:28.10 | czr | teprrr, you should use real d-bus prefixes. |
| 10:28.21 | czr | hhedberg, that is not true |
| 10:28.39 | *** part/#maemo matmo (n=chatzill@doconnel.force9.co.uk) |
| 10:28.40 | czr | if you pass an app name which has dots in it, osso_initialize will use that directly (no forced com.nokia prefix will be added) |
| 10:29.00 | hhedberg | czr, oh, well... another undocumented thing :) |
| 10:29.05 | czr | indeed |
| 10:29.10 | hhedberg | czr, should have read the source |
| 10:29.15 | czr | probably |
| 10:29.36 | czr | actually the first implementation of it was buggy (back in the 1.0 days). it contained the avoidance logic but the logic contained a bug :-) |
| 10:29.49 | czr | but anything since 1.0 has a working implementation. just not documented. |
| 10:30.31 | hhedberg | however, the tutorial tells to just use the application name without prefix. |
| 10:30.58 | czr | :-) |
| 10:31.01 | czr | what can I say. |
| 10:31.01 | teprrr | czr, ah, got it :P |
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| 10:32.41 | hhedberg | but what a wonderful day, I have learnt something new again :) |
| 10:33.00 | czr | me too. |
| 10:33.16 | teprrr | that's how it usually goes ;) |
| 10:33.32 | czr | well, the stuff that I learnt wasn't connected to the stuff that you did :-) |
| 10:33.56 | czr | been building a better vm for maemo development |
| 10:34.11 | teprrr | vm as in virtualmachine? |
| 10:34.14 | czr | got slightly cranky because of all the fancy ubuntu stuff that mainly just gets in the way with vms |
| 10:34.15 | *** join/#maemo simon_ (n=simon@dyn167169.wlan.jku.at) |
| 10:34.17 | czr | yes teprrr |
| 10:34.28 | czr | note, this is not the same vm as the "official" nokia-one |
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| 10:34.35 | czr | that's packeged/built by indt/.br |
| 10:34.42 | czr | afaik |
| 10:35.45 | teprrr | hmm, what's the official vm? qemu? |
| 10:35.56 | czr | err. you misunderstand. |
| 10:36.09 | czr | qemu is used for the armel emulation for SDK (when building software in SDK) |
| 10:36.12 | teprrr | that what I was thinking :) |
| 10:36.24 | teprrr | that's even |
| 10:36.28 | czr | the vm I'm talking about is a prebuilt virtual machine which contains a linux environment, installed sbox and installed maemo SDK |
| 10:36.40 | czr | (for vmware) |
| 10:36.46 | teprrr | ahh. some vmware based image or something like.. ahh, got it |
| 10:37.10 | czr | although I could imagine it would be pretty easy to convert the disk into something that qemu or xen understand, but that's not my problem atm. |
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| 10:37.24 | czr | and one would have to modify the system slightly as well, at least for xen |
| 10:37.33 | Gubbe | hello |
| 10:37.37 | hhedberg | teprrr, so, you are reading the Mauku source? |
| 10:38.00 | TPC | czr, as far as I know qemu can read lots of disk formats, including vmwares |
| 10:38.44 | TPC | czr, anyway, this virtual machine of yours, is it for OS2008? |
| 10:40.49 | czr | TPC, yes |
| 10:42.05 | TPC | are you going to post it somewhere? |
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| 10:42.25 | czr | why? |
| 10:42.37 | czr | I don't have adequate bw to serve large files |
| 10:42.57 | TPC | I've been meaning to set up scratchbox to play around with some things, but I can't get it to work since I don't run x86 architecture |
| 10:43.06 | TPC | a virtual machine would be a nice workaround |
| 10:43.09 | czr | what do you run? |
| 10:43.12 | TPC | amd64 |
| 10:43.22 | czr | ah, yeah. that's what I do as well |
| 10:43.33 | czr | plus vms isolate the stuff from my real working environment |
| 10:43.43 | TPC | yep, thats another bonus |
| 10:44.09 | czr | if you find some server with proper bw, I can think about it. you could always try to use the "official" vm as well. not sure whether it's ready yet |
| 10:44.24 | czr | ppl have complained about very slow dl speeds with it though (getting the image that is) |
| 10:44.27 | kamal_gar | Is any one tried the example alarm source of maemo on emulator? |
| 10:44.50 | TPC | czr, you could always create a torrent |
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| 10:45.33 | onion | is the libmetalayer+extractors (defined in metadata_lib.conf) documented anywhere ? |
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| 10:47.36 | teprrr | hhedberg, yup, looking at it just for curiosity. |
| 10:47.40 | czr | TPC, no I couldn't. |
| 10:48.39 | czr | if someone is willing to host one, I'm all for that. but I'm not. |
| 10:48.51 | czr | (drop me a note if you want to) |
| 10:51.20 | onion | I was able to the the crawler to add mod, s3m, xm and oggs to the metastorage database using the libmtext_mime module, but the MIME field is null, so the media player won't list the files. If I fix the mime type then it will list the files (playing an ogg right now..) |
| 10:51.44 | onion | any documentation on how to make an metaextractor module myself ? |
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| 11:03.09 | kulve | zuh: say fooogg |
| 11:03.23 | zuh | fooogg (yes, mastah) |
| 11:03.26 | kulve | thx |
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| 11:05.06 | kulve | onion: if you find out how to do that, please let me know :) |
| 11:07.49 | onion | kulve: sure |
| 11:10.37 | suihkulokki | onion: try asking the mailing list |
| 11:13.12 | onion | suihkulokki: I'll do that |
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| 11:29.02 | _berto_ | does anyone know if this is working?? -> https://maemo.org/downloads/product/create/OS2008/application.html |
| 11:29.18 | _berto_ | I'm trying to add a new app there but I'm getting an error |
| 11:31.02 | X-Fade | _berto_: What kind of error? |
| 11:31.23 | _berto_ | Failed to create a new product under product group #0, cannot continue. |
| 11:31.25 | _berto_ | Error: Access Denied |
| 11:31.38 | _berto_ | the App Category and ITOS combos appear empty |
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| 11:32.47 | X-Fade | _berto_: You are right. I'll look into it.. |
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| 11:32.58 | _berto_ | X-Fade: thanks! |
| 11:38.07 | kulve | _berto_: you need to login in, select it2008, select the category and then select "create maemo application" from the Page item in the menu at the top of the page.. |
| 11:38.31 | kulve | the big "add new application" button doesn't seem to work.. |
| 11:38.48 | _berto_ | ah, ok |
| 11:39.12 | _berto_ | i'll try |
| 11:40.12 | X-Fade | kulve: Yeah, that is a safe workaround. |
| 11:40.23 | _berto_ | yes, it seems to work, I'm adding the app now |
| 11:40.28 | _berto_ | I'll tell you in a couple of minutes |
| 11:40.29 | _berto_ | thanks |
| 11:40.33 | kulve | X-Fade: I just tried what _berto_ did, and I got the same error |
| 11:40.59 | X-Fade | I will fix the button asap ;) |
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| 11:50.37 | _berto_ | it works, thanks! -> https://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/vagalume/ |
| 11:50.37 | _berto_ | :) |
| 11:52.03 | X-Fade | _berto_: I've been using the app for listening a lot of hours already. I really like it. |
| 11:52.16 | _berto_ | thanks :) |
| 11:52.21 | inz | _berto_, I suggest taking the s away from https when posting such links |
| 11:52.41 | _berto_ | oops, I just copied & pasted from the browser, sorry |
| 11:53.01 | inz | _berto_, https links to maemo.org require login, so people who don't have accounts will not see it |
| 11:53.10 | inz | _berto_, not that I care, I do have one ;) |
| 11:54.01 | solmumaha | _berto_: thanks for vagalume |
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| 11:54.12 | _berto_ | you're welcome, solmumaha |
| 11:54.27 | *** join/#maemo simon_ (n=simon@dyn167169.wlan.jku.at) |
| 11:54.32 | _berto_ | :) |
| 11:55.08 | X-Fade | _berto_: Also makes my N800 feel nice and warm ;) |
| 11:56.02 | _berto_ | I was very surprised that no one had made a similar app before |
| 11:56.07 | _berto_ | the protocol is quite simple |
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| 11:56.51 | X-Fade | _berto_: Any plans for future versions? |
| 11:57.06 | _berto_ | yes, my immediate plan |
| 11:57.14 | _berto_ | is support for previews |
| 11:57.17 | _berto_ | lastfm://play/... urls |
| 11:57.26 | _berto_ | there are lots of free albums out there |
| 11:57.30 | _berto_ | but they're not working right now |
| 11:57.34 | _berto_ | and then, the UI |
| 11:57.45 | X-Fade | Album art? :) |
| 11:57.52 | _berto_ | yes, it's part of the UI |
| 11:58.39 | _berto_ | and libconic support |
| 11:58.58 | _berto_ | so it detects whether the device is online or not |
| 11:58.59 | X-Fade | The UI is pretty basic (some might even call it ugly), but it is just so great in use that it doesn't matter.. |
| 11:59.11 | _berto_ | yes, it's ugly, you can call it that way |
| 11:59.11 | _berto_ | :D |
| 11:59.19 | solmumaha | i like the simplicity of it |
| 11:59.45 | X-Fade | Yeah, me too. Just add a love / ban icon and it is perfect ;) |
| 11:59.47 | _berto_ | I wanted to have a decent UI before releasing it, but then I thought that if it was working and people could use it... |
| 11:59.58 | tigert | vagalume rox0rs |
| 12:00.24 | tigert | _berto_: it would be nice to maybe just have the same buttons as on last.fm? |
| 12:00.27 | X-Fade | vagalume needs a bit of tigert's styling love ;) |
| 12:00.33 | tigert | tango icon set has icons for those already |
| 12:00.33 | _berto_ | yes, that's the idea |
| 12:00.48 | tigert | and I could help with the layout |
| 12:01.07 | tigert | can you do album art in practice for it? |
| 12:01.11 | tigert | I mean, should I design for that? |
| 12:01.17 | tigert | if you want help, of course |
| 12:01.31 | _berto_ | I have a friend here who is making some design |
| 12:01.33 | tigert | also, is it possible to control the volume from the app? |
| 12:01.39 | tigert | _berto_: sounds great then! :) |
| 12:01.40 | _berto_ | but I'd appreciate your help |
| 12:01.45 | _berto_ | I'll call you if I need it |
| 12:01.46 | _berto_ | :) |
| 12:01.47 | tigert | keep it finger-usable |
| 12:01.50 | tigert | that is the main thing |
| 12:01.53 | tigert | ie, big buttons |
| 12:01.55 | _berto_ | right now you can use hw +/- buttons |
| 12:01.58 | _berto_ | to control the volume |
| 12:02.08 | tigert | and the fave / "never play this shit again" - buttons should be in the ui, not just in the menus |
| 12:02.13 | tigert | _berto_: oh ok, good |
| 12:02.16 | _berto_ | yes, I agree |
| 12:02.22 | tigert | an indicator would be nice for volume too |
| 12:02.29 | tigert | but yeah, good stuff |
| 12:02.31 | _berto_ | yes, a volume bar |
| 12:02.38 | tigert | I am loving the app |
| 12:02.41 | solmumaha | tigert: you haven't updated it, have you? :) |
| 12:04.12 | tigert | no :) |
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| 12:04.20 | tigert | just realized my copy doesnt do volume changing |
| 12:04.25 | tigert | and I assume it has other new goodies too :) |
| 12:04.27 | _berto_ | 0.2 is out |
| 12:04.30 | _berto_ | it has volume control |
| 12:04.45 | tigert | is it in repos? |
| 12:05.03 | _berto_ | not yet, it's in garage.maemo.org |
| 12:05.06 | _berto_ | I have to create a .install file |
| 12:05.10 | tigert | ok |
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| 12:06.45 | tigert | yea, got the package |
| 12:07.30 | alterego | Sho_, how is it broken? |
| 12:07.47 | Sho_ | alterego: 404? :) |
| 12:07.54 | alterego | Ah |
| 12:08.36 | alterego | Because who ever maintians pidgin has set their updated date to the 17th. Which is causing them to stay at the top of the "Fresh" list :/ |
| 12:09.18 | Sho_ | It's the feed URL embedded into the download pages ... the format seems to be correct, for news it's news/rss.xml, too. So it was probably just forgotten to set up. |
| 12:09.56 | alterego | Yeah, like how the IT2008 site link on the front page 404's ;) |
| 12:10.03 | _berto_ | oh, and one feature I have to add is the alarm clock :) |
| 12:10.10 | _berto_ | it should be easy |
| 12:11.08 | alterego | _berto_, what are you developing? |
| 12:12.03 | _berto_ | a last.fm client, http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/vagalume/ |
| 12:12.17 | alterego | Cool, what's the alarm for? |
| 12:12.34 | X-Fade | alterego: Wake up with your favorite music? |
| 12:12.37 | _berto_ | for waking you up in the morning |
| 12:12.41 | alterego | Oh nice. |
| 12:12.48 | alterego | Add that and I'll install it ;) |
| 12:12.52 | Sho_ | I'll file a bug at the tracker, I guess |
| 12:13.12 | alterego | I might even rate it too :P |
| 12:13.34 | solmumaha | _berto_: maybe a timer for long it plays? :) i use it to fall asleep and have to charge every morning |
| 12:13.45 | alterego | Heh |
| 12:13.51 | _berto_ | alterego: but you'll need to register at www.last.fm |
| 12:14.03 | _berto_ | solmumaha: I had never thought about that, it might be a good idea |
| 12:14.12 | alterego | Sure, I've been putting it off for a while .. |
| 12:14.58 | solmumaha | alterego: desktop applet support coming soon? |
| 12:15.30 | alterego | solmumaha, I've been working on it over the weekend. |
| 12:15.35 | alterego | It should work but it's not :/ |
| 12:16.12 | alterego | For some reason my loader isn't being recognised. If I finish my current /job/ project today I'll have a closer look. |
| 12:16.23 | alterego | But I need money ;) |
| 12:16.31 | alterego | Christmas just around the corner and everything. |
| 12:16.53 | solmumaha | sleep less |
| 12:17.08 | alterego | I'm not sure that's possible. |
| 12:17.13 | alterego | I got 4 hours last night :P |
| 12:17.35 | alterego | If I carry on like that a few more days I wont have the brain function to do anything ^_^ |
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| 12:18.51 | mk8 | Hi to all ... :) |
| 12:19.33 | solmumaha | alterego: well after you are done with ruby, you could port pulseaudio ;) |
| 12:20.10 | alterego | Never heard of it. |
| 12:20.28 | alterego | What does it do? |
| 12:20.50 | solmumaha | it's a sound server with advanced features |
| 12:21.48 | solmumaha | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PulseAudio |
| 12:22.24 | solmumaha | would be nice to switch output from tablet to server connected to speakers and vice versa |
| 12:22.34 | alterego | Interesting. |
| 12:23.27 | cosmo | solmumaha: you can do that with esd already |
| 12:24.01 | solmumaha | well it's not the only feature i like |
| 12:24.34 | solmumaha | cosmo: is that easy to do on the fly? |
| 12:24.38 | Sho_ | Bah, Bugzilla seems to be lazy on sending out account confirmations today |
| 12:25.06 | solmumaha | does tablet have tools for that? |
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| 12:26.43 | acydlord | pulseaudio made my local system keep crashing |
| 12:26.47 | cosmo | solmumaha: not real tools |
| 12:26.49 | *** join/#maemo svu (n=svu@089-101-232199.ntlworld.ie) |
| 12:26.59 | cosmo | you must set environment variable manually |
| 12:27.59 | solmumaha | and restart playback? |
| 12:28.09 | cosmo | yep i think |
| 12:28.30 | cosmo | pulseaudio looks better though |
| 12:28.40 | solmumaha | yes, haven't tested it though |
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| 12:38.47 | db48x | um, dumb question maybe, but how do I send an escape to vi with the n800 onscreen keyboard? |
| 12:39.09 | Veggen | db48x: you don't. you use the hardware escape. (the round arrow) |
| 12:39.40 | db48x | ahh |
| 12:40.24 | db48x | thanks |
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| 13:10.37 | timeless | zerojay: fwiw, bug 2263 |
| 13:10.38 | _Monkey | Bug 2263 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2263 |
| 13:10.43 | timeless | i finally got the guy to file the bug :) |
| 13:11.40 | timeless | hrm, it's in the wrong component, oh well |
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| 13:22.20 | Tak | anyone do c++ unit testing? |
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| 13:24.21 | Tak | that sounds like a yes ;-) |
| 13:24.39 | alterego | I've not touched C++ in years :/ |
| 13:24.49 | Sho_ | ah, http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/500_fortunate_applicants.html |
| 13:24.57 | alterego | And I'd rather not do it again ;) |
| 13:25.07 | alterego | A! |
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| 13:26.27 | mgedmin | last time I tried unit-testing C code, I ended up creating a very hacky Python binding and writing the tests in Python... |
| 13:27.09 | Tak | I see |
| 13:27.32 | Tak | I was looking at cppunit, since I've used [nj]unit before |
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| 13:36.01 | anders_ | I did some experiments with cunit a while back.. |
| 13:36.38 | anders_ | http://blog.0x63.nu/2007/08/c-unit-testing-framework.html |
| 13:37.16 | vegai | I wrote a C testing framework when I was writing Maemo software |
| 13:37.25 | vegai | just a few macros, really. Nothing fancy. |
| 13:37.32 | Tak | interesting |
| 13:37.32 | vegai | Of course, it totally failed for segfaults and such :) |
| 13:37.42 | robtaylor | there's now a glib unit testing lib thats being discussed on gtk-devel |
| 13:38.38 | vegai | I think it was like 50 loc |
| 13:38.46 | Tak | a test framework would be a solid addition to glib |
| 13:39.10 | robtaylor | looks pretty likely it'll be going in |
| 13:39.33 | anders_ | robtaylor: Got direct link to archive? |
| 13:40.02 | monkeyiq | anders_: maybe this? http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gtk-devel-list/2007-November/msg00000.html |
| 13:40.05 | robtaylor | http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gtk-devel-list/2007-November/msg00000.html |
| 13:40.07 | robtaylor | heh |
| 13:40.20 | monkeyiq | ;-) |
| 13:40.40 | monkeyiq | I usually do testing in dejagnu, though its more system testing than unit testing |
| 13:40.53 | vegai | yep, that has some good features there |
| 13:41.15 | Tak | hmm @ expect |
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| 13:41.47 | monkeyiq | well, atleast expect handles some of the fringe cases for me |
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| 13:42.17 | Tak | yeah |
| 13:42.28 | monkeyiq | of course you have to brew up a few handle functions to cover up some of the boiler plates for the simpler tests |
| 13:42.37 | Tak | hmm, I'd have to generate driver stubs for all my test cases using dejagnu |
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| 13:45.26 | Tak | if the glib code was in a more finalized state, I'd be sorely tempted to use it |
| 13:46.53 | rothiel | Hi guys ! |
| 13:47.16 | rothiel | I begun to code a game for n800, with SDL |
| 13:47.32 | rothiel | it works on debian, bue not on n800 |
| 13:47.48 | rothiel | no error |
| 13:47.57 | rothiel | I run the game and nothing happens |
| 13:48.03 | rothiel | any idea ? >_> |
| 13:48.11 | Tak | rothiel: does it work in scratchbox? |
| 13:48.39 | rothiel | neither |
| 13:48.39 | _Monkey | well, neither is n800 if you shut it down.. |
| 13:49.29 | alterego | rothiel, is it an OpenGL app? |
| 13:49.35 | rothiel | Tak > ARMEL ou X86 same thing |
| 13:49.42 | rothiel | no alterego , just SDL |
| 13:49.49 | alterego | O_o |
| 13:49.57 | alterego | It should be ARMEL |
| 13:50.26 | Tak | what kind of game it it? what does it do for audio? what's the default screen resolution? |
| 13:51.04 | rothiel | no audio, on fullscreen |
| 13:51.12 | Tak | what is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow? |
| 13:51.16 | rothiel | it's a "push & go" type game |
| 13:51.46 | rothiel | it's really simple, that's why I don't understand... |
| 13:51.58 | Tak | what screen resolution does it default to? |
| 13:52.14 | rothiel | 800*480 |
| 13:52.14 | _Monkey | 384000 |
| 13:52.44 | czr | heh |
| 13:52.45 | Tak | does it crash? |
| 13:52.48 | rothiel | no, 640*480 |
| 13:52.53 | rothiel | no crash |
| 13:53.00 | rothiel | just nothing |
| 13:53.04 | Tak | ok - does it consume all the cpu? |
| 13:53.15 | rothiel | int main(void) { |
| 13:53.19 | rothiel | return 0; |
| 13:53.21 | rothiel | } |
| 13:53.27 | rothiel | that's the same result >_> |
| 13:53.46 | Tak | so it runs, but then exits? |
| 13:54.25 | rothiel | no trace of my programm in the top list |
| 13:54.44 | Tak | are you running from xterm, or menu item? |
| 13:55.31 | rothiel | I use the osso-xterm |
| 13:55.37 | rothiel | (brb, sorry) |
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| 14:06.19 | rothiel | re |
| 14:08.15 | Khertan | someone have already try gnucash on an it ? |
| 14:08.39 | Tak | hmm - it seems like gnucash would require extensive UI modifications |
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| 14:09.52 | Khertan | it seems :) |
| 14:10.05 | rothiel | salut Khertan |
| 14:10.22 | Khertan | do you know good account manager with a small footprint ? |
| 14:10.27 | Khertan | salut rothiel |
| 14:10.46 | rothiel | tiens dis moi... t'as deja essayé de coder sdl sur scratchbox ? |
| 14:10.56 | Khertan | non jamais |
| 14:11.02 | rothiel | j'ai un jeu qui complie nickel, que ce soit sous debian ou sous le sdk |
| 14:11.12 | Khertan | le sdl spa trop mon truc :) |
| 14:11.16 | rothiel | elle se lance nickel sous debian, mais rien sous n800.. |
| 14:11.36 | Khertan | ta pas une fenetre x11 sous le maemo-launcher ? |
| 14:11.36 | rothiel | arf donc je suppose que tu vois pas où pourrait etre le pb ^^ |
| 14:11.46 | Khertan | si je vois un peu pres ... |
| 14:11.49 | rothiel | bah jla lance avec l'osso-xterm |
| 14:11.59 | Khertan | sur scratchbox ? |
| 14:12.10 | rothiel | non sur le n800 |
| 14:12.36 | Khertan | essaye sur scratchbox ... cela sera plus facile. |
| 14:12.56 | Tak | how much code is it? can you pastebin it? |
| 14:13.16 | rothiel | même resultat que sur le n800 |
| 14:13.35 | rothiel | il ne se lance bien que directement sous debian |
| 14:13.53 | rothiel | et quand je compile sus scratchbox j'ai aucune erreur, c'est ça que je ne comprends pas |
| 14:13.53 | Khertan | (we are on an english chan, i think it ll be better if we talk in english) |
| 14:14.04 | rothiel | (yeah sorry) |
| 14:14.04 | Khertan | (so other users can join the talk) |
| 14:15.19 | Khertan | can you pastebin the code ? |
| 14:15.29 | *** join/#maemo tsavola (i=tsavola@nat/movial/x-8cb33de420c070c7) |
| 14:15.41 | Khertan | i think there is something wrong with the windows managment ;) |
| 14:16.14 | Khertan | ps : GnuCash require Guile, someone know this library ? |
| 14:17.08 | *** join/#maemo lindever__ (n=eton@202.106.109.66) |
| 14:17.09 | tsavola | in zeenix's words, guile is the official extension language of the gnu project :) |
| 14:18.02 | rothiel | #include "SDL/SDL.h" |
| 14:18.02 | rothiel | const int SCREEN_WIDTH = 800; |
| 14:18.02 | rothiel | const int SCREEN_HEIGHT = 480; |
| 14:18.02 | rothiel | const int SCREEN_BPP = 16; |
| 14:18.02 | rothiel | SDL_Surface *message = NULL; |
| 14:18.03 | rothiel | SDL_Surface *background = NULL; |
| 14:18.05 | rothiel | SDL_Surface *screen = NULL; |
| 14:18.35 | rothiel | (sorry for the paste) |
| 14:18.37 | rothiel | int main( int argc, char* args[] ) |
| 14:18.37 | rothiel | { |
| 14:18.37 | rothiel | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:18.37 | rothiel | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:18.37 | rothiel | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:18.40 | rothiel | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:18.42 | rothiel | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:18.44 | rothiel | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:18.46 | rothiel | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:18.48 | rothiel | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:18.50 | *** join/#maemo aloisiojr (n=aloisio@200.184.118.132) |
| 14:18.50 | rothiel | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:18.52 | rothiel | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:18.54 | rothiel | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:18.56 | rothiel | here is the beginning of the code |
| 14:19.22 | Khertan | http://pastebin.com/ |
| 14:19.23 | Khertan | :) |
| 14:19.25 | Tak | rothiel: for one thing, you're missing SDL_FULLSCREEN from the flags |
| 14:19.51 | rothiel | Khertan, > I dunno this webiste sorry :p |
| 14:20.01 | rothiel | but I'll remember :) |
| 14:20.16 | Khertan | nope your welcome :) |
| 14:20.52 | Tak | for the next thing, I'd put printfs on the error conditions so you know when they're failing |
| 14:21.16 | rothiel | yes I'll do that |
| 14:21.31 | Khertan | tsavola > thanks :) |
| 14:24.31 | Tak | I suspect it's refusing to initialize the screen because you're trying to do 800x480 in a window |
| 14:25.52 | rothiel | I check it with printf |
| 14:26.03 | zeenix | tsavola: you have the memory of an elephant :) |
| 14:26.56 | rothiel | hum it's segfaulting |
| 14:27.16 | rothiel | I'll test with SDL_FULLSCRREN :) |
| 14:27.25 | rothiel | -R+E |
| 14:28.58 | *** join/#maemo ryanfaerman (n=ryanfaer@crlspr-69.65.71.237.myacc.net) |
| 14:31.16 | *** part/#maemo trevarthan (n=jesse@c-71-59-54-137.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 14:32.43 | Jaffa | Yay, I've now got my actual discount code. |
| 14:32.56 | *** join/#maemo lardman (n=lardman@enpc-smm11.bath.ac.uk) |
| 14:33.09 | Jaffa | No clue as to release date, yet. |
| 14:33.18 | Jaffa | My bet's now firming up on the end of this week. |
| 14:35.22 | *** join/#maemo linuxjoergen (n=m-lund@0x573e4bb7.arcnxx16.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk) |
| 14:36.05 | tsavola | zeenix: i have selective memory. the selection criteria cannot be configured. |
| 14:36.54 | *** join/#maemo eton_ (n=eton@202.106.109.34) |
| 14:39.24 | lardman | How can I extract an email (the raw source) to send as an attachment |
| 14:40.10 | rothiel | yeah Tak ! |
| 14:40.15 | rothiel | u found the trick :p thx |
| 14:44.16 | Khertan | jaffa > me too :) |
| 14:44.27 | Tak | np, I'm looking forward to seeing the game ;-) |
| 14:45.28 | Khertan | :) |
| 14:49.48 | ywwg | I'm on ubuntu gutsy and I installed scratchbox, and now I'm trying to install python-maemo, but dpkg-reconfigure is not installed. how best to fix this? |
| 14:55.13 | Khertan | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=539&stc=1&d=1194878408 |
| 14:55.16 | Khertan | sniff |
| 14:56.29 | alterego | discount code and pre instructions?! |
| 14:56.39 | lardman | makes sense, they wouldn't want to stop people buying a new one |
| 14:57.25 | alterego | I wont lose it there. Muahahaha |
| 14:58.20 | db48x | songbird on n810? |
| 14:58.25 | db48x | that would be pretty cool |
| 14:58.59 | Khertan | songbird ? |
| 14:59.19 | db48x | top right corner of that screenshot |
| 14:59.44 | alterego | Cool, one of my friends got accepted as well. He's not told me about that :) |
| 14:59.44 | Khertan | lol |
| 14:59.48 | Khertan | not see it :) |
| 15:00.36 | db48x | blue background, black birds playing musical instruments |
| 15:02.08 | db48x | weird that it would be on that page |
| 15:04.36 | alterego | Hmm, pidgin wont install. |
| 15:04.42 | *** join/#maemo MagicFab (n=magicfab@ubuntu/member/magicfab) |
| 15:04.43 | alterego | Where's gnutls13? |
| 15:06.00 | pupnik_ | how about someone pick up mtpaint as a project |
| 15:06.25 | Sho_ | whee, just got the discount code email ;) |
| 15:06.59 | *** join/#maemo ian_brasil (n=ian@dasasob.nokia.com) |
| 15:07.58 | *** join/#maemo hexa (n=hexa@67.70.246.100) |
| 15:08.53 | Khertan | in fact nokia talk about songbird as a great player to sync your n800 and n810 music with your desktop |
| 15:09.04 | Khertan | not a port of songbird on an nxxx |
| 15:09.10 | Khertan | http://tableteer.nokia.com/tableteer/os2008/exp_songbird.xhtml#top |
| 15:11.36 | lardman | Is there a list implementation for maemo? |
| 15:11.40 | lardman | lisp even |
| 15:14.31 | tsavola | hedgehog! (i'm not sure if it's easily available for maemo) |
| 15:14.41 | jumpula | "sometimes all of or thoughts are misgiven" |
| 15:14.48 | tsavola | but it's lisp designed for embedded environments |
| 15:14.59 | *** join/#maemo Dar (i=Dar_K@nat/sun/x-cbe2c7d0d28bbfd4) |
| 15:15.15 | tsavola | but i guess you would want some maemo integration, too :) |
| 15:20.17 | pupnik | btw complements to Reggie on the facelift on internettablettalk (in case this ever shows up in a google search for you) |
| 15:21.25 | alterego | lardman, tsavola, I was going to work on a lisp implementation (maybe scheme) for maemo after I'm happy with ruby-maemo |
| 15:21.39 | alterego | pupnik, :) |
| 15:22.20 | alterego | Yeah, the new design is quite cute. |
| 15:22.44 | alterego | I like the old site layout inset into the N810 display :) |
| 15:24.45 | *** join/#maemo rubiks (n=user@139.94.60.41) |
| 15:25.20 | rubiks | hello |
| 15:25.21 | _Monkey | niihau, rubiks |
| 15:26.16 | *** join/#maemo josephus (n=josephus@huwico/developer/josephus) |
| 15:30.15 | rubiks | anything new? |
| 15:30.28 | josephus | I've recompiled the kernel for my n800 to have ipv6 support which rendered my zImage file 120kbyte bigger. Will it fit? |
| 15:32.49 | *** join/#maemo lopz (n=gentoo-D@unaffiliated/lopz) |
| 15:33.03 | *** join/#maemo red-zack (n=mk@dslb-084-062-051-021.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 15:33.20 | lopz | hola |
| 15:34.02 | josephus | Also the kernel-source-rx-34-2.6.18 source package has no extraversions while the stock kernel does. (-omap1) Will my new kernel work with the older modules? |
| 15:41.36 | *** join/#maemo unique311 (n=unique31@ool-457ae2a6.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 15:47.42 | *** join/#maemo kabtoffe1 (n=kbergstr@kosh.hut.fi) |
| 16:01.52 | *** join/#maemo mbuf (n=mbuf@121.246.172.117) |
| 16:09.08 | kulve | josephus: you really should compile using the maemo kernel source |
| 16:09.29 | alterego | That is the maemo kernel source .. |
| 16:09.30 | kulve | and maybe you could compile the ipv6 as module, if the kernel is too big? |
| 16:09.45 | alterego | That would certainly be a good option. |
| 16:09.48 | pupnik | what class minisdhc to buy? class 4, class 6? (mB/s)? |
| 16:09.59 | alterego | class 6 is ~6M |
| 16:10.03 | alterego | 4 ~4M |
| 16:10.12 | alterego | I think .. |
| 16:10.32 | alterego | I was researching them last night. |
| 16:10.33 | pupnik | can N810 make use of 6M? |
| 16:10.40 | alterego | ebuyer.com was the best purchase for me I think. |
| 16:10.50 | alterego | Don't know. |
| 16:10.59 | alterego | I went with a class 4 |
| 16:11.02 | pupnik | wow i even see 'class 2' |
| 16:11.06 | pupnik | >_, |
| 16:11.10 | MagicFab | Hi there - got accepted to the N810 program |
| 16:11.15 | alterego | MagicFab, congrats. |
| 16:11.20 | MagicFab | see http://www.fabianrodriguez.com/blog/archives/2007/11/12/joining-the-nokia-n810-maemo-device-program/ for what it' s worth |
| 16:12.08 | MagicFab | my focus will be on usability, particulary in regards to Ubuntu and free+open video/audio plus bug reporting and docs around that |
| 16:13.56 | pupnik | MagicFab: since you're in montreal, check out Cafe Ferreira |
| 16:14.13 | alterego | Free open wireless networks .. |
| 16:14.17 | alterego | Lucky punk :P |
| 16:14.53 | pupnik | do cities provide these? or is there just a culture of private people having open wlans? |
| 16:16.00 | *** join/#maemo kabtoffe (n=kbergstr@hoas-fe2add00-192.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 16:16.31 | alterego | Now, to find some kind of sleek hardcase. |
| 16:16.35 | alterego | I suppose I could make one. |
| 16:17.34 | TPC | interesting: http://pimlico-project.org/ |
| 16:17.56 | TPC | its a PIM suite for portable linux devices, and they mention maemo on the front page |
| 16:17.58 | bgm | not all canadian cities have good wifi networks. some have corporate-managed networks, some have community-managed. Montreal has a community network |
| 16:18.28 | bgm | I haven't tested SIP on the wifi network yet though |
| 16:19.16 | alterego | They even have screenshots .. |
| 16:19.47 | pupnik | TPC wow there's a maemo version too - have you tried pimlico yet? |
| 16:20.00 | TPC | no |
| 16:20.05 | TPC | but I'm going to |
| 16:20.15 | TPC | altought not tonight |
| 16:20.28 | TPC | a friend recommended it, he has used it on his zaurus |
| 16:20.36 | alterego | They have debs too. |
| 16:22.10 | alterego | 3.1M for a task manager seems somewhat excessive. |
| 16:23.21 | TPC | I wonder if it can import iCal or vCal |
| 16:24.01 | *** join/#maemo E78C8EE4BABA (n=hunter@shell.icgroup.com) |
| 16:27.17 | ||cw | gpe-calendar can |
| 16:27.57 | *** join/#maemo hfwilke (n=hwilke_@gateway.grayinsco.com) |
| 16:29.55 | Jaffa | pupnik: I've got a SanDisk 6M MicroSD card on the way. |
| 16:30.02 | alterego | I didn't really like the GPE suite,. |
| 16:30.14 | alterego | Not very refined. |
| 16:30.19 | josephus | kulve: i don't want to insmod modules manually |
| 16:30.34 | TPC | I agree, GPE was a bit strange |
| 16:30.48 | ||cw | I had a script that would sync google calendars into gpe, can't seem to find it though |
| 16:30.50 | maddler | Jaffa: jaa |
| 16:30.51 | pupnik | i can only find a kingston 6M 4GB here - 37 euro |
| 16:31.05 | alterego | josephus, add it to a bootscript. |
| 16:31.17 | maddler | Jaffa: where did you buy it? |
| 16:31.17 | script | hi, is it possible to develop for gregale AND chinook in the same scratchbox? |
| 16:31.32 | alterego | script, yes. |
| 16:31.39 | alterego | Just install the appropriate SDK's |
| 16:31.43 | script | alterego: do you have an howto handy? |
| 16:31.54 | alterego | The installation instructions? |
| 16:31.57 | pupnik | well you should really set up a different target for each |
| 16:31.59 | script | alterego: chinook installed fine ... gregale docs are missing |
| 16:32.12 | script | http://maemo.org/development/documentation/tutorials/Maemo_2.2_Tutorial.html |
| 16:32.12 | *** join/#maemo rodarvus (n=rodarvus@ubuntu/member/rodarvus) |
| 16:32.22 | alterego | http://stage.maemo.org |
| 16:32.46 | Jaffa | maddler: mobymemory.com |
| 16:32.49 | script | alterego: thanks, that what i needed :) |
| 16:33.03 | Jaffa | About 50eur for 6GB |
| 16:33.11 | alterego | Jaffa, I found ebuyer to be cheaper .. |
| 16:33.39 | Jaffa | Really? I had a look. Ah well. |
| 16:34.03 | Jaffa | Can't really complain what with the device being only 99eur |
| 16:34.10 | alterego | Jaffa, only a couple of quid. |
| 16:34.23 | alterego | I was buying other stuff from their too anyway. |
| 16:34.31 | Jaffa | Makes sense, then |
| 16:34.37 | alterego | Anyone know how Series 40 phones perform with tablets? |
| 16:34.51 | alterego | Thinking of getting a 6300 |
| 16:34.59 | Jaffa | Should work well |
| 16:35.25 | Jaffa | Nice phone. Know a few people here who've got them. Only 2.5G, though |
| 16:35.40 | alterego | The calendar widget on in the pimlico suite is impressive. |
| 16:36.20 | maddler | Jaffa: lemme have a look... |
| 16:37.08 | josephus | alterego: thanks for the advice. btw i've heard there are tools for complete initfs/fiasco rebuilds. Do you know anything about them? |
| 16:37.26 | alterego | josephus, unfortunately not. |
| 16:37.56 | maddler | Jaffa: 6GB costs less than 4GB?! |
| 16:38.13 | alterego | What about the Nokia 5700? |
| 16:38.44 | alterego | It's over twice the price, series 60 though |
| 16:38.44 | maddler | no... misread :) |
| 16:38.52 | *** join/#maemo l7 (n=l7@evil-wire.org) |
| 16:39.21 | alterego | HSCSD |
| 16:40.21 | maddler | Jaffa: damn! they don't ship to Italy! |
| 16:40.24 | *** join/#maemo fab (n=bellet@bellet.info) |
| 16:41.05 | *** join/#maemo RobAtWork (n=ecc@70.43.98.34.nw.nuvox.net) |
| 16:42.41 | Khertan | 6630 work well too |
| 16:42.46 | Khertan | s60 v2 phone |
| 16:43.28 | alterego | 5300 looks quite nice. |
| 16:43.41 | alterego | I don't want to spend that much on a phone. |
| 16:43.46 | alterego | But I really need a new one ^_^ |
| 16:44.55 | Jaffa | maddler: If you don't find anywhere locally, I can always forward on to you. |
| 16:44.56 | Khertan | i get mine on ebay for 35Euros |
| 16:45.37 | kulve | josephus: I think there's no fiasco tools :( |
| 16:45.54 | Khertan | alterego > pimlico date is good ... really better than gpe :) |
| 16:45.55 | alterego | Can't even find the 6630 |
| 16:46.06 | alterego | Khertan, yeah. It's impressive. |
| 16:46.08 | Khertan | but gpe have a google sync ... :) |
| 16:46.18 | alterego | A few more refinements for maemo and it would be perfect. |
| 16:46.18 | *** join/#maemo bueroman (n=setanta@200.184.118.132) |
| 16:46.38 | Khertan | yes an hildon windows and alarmd bind :) |
| 16:46.58 | flip^ | how goes the random game developments pupnik? |
| 16:47.05 | Khertan | the task is more useless as category can t be entered |
| 16:47.15 | Khertan | due to a bug on the combobox popup |
| 16:47.29 | Khertan | so i go on ... |
| 16:47.33 | Khertan | bye |
| 16:47.59 | alterego | £300 is quite a bit of money. Is it really worth it? ^_^ |
| 16:49.08 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (n=tso@241.84-49-135.nextgentel.com) |
| 16:50.55 | pupnik | flip^: mucking about with new pingus. it is almost playable on 770. |
| 16:51.17 | flip^ | thought you'd stopped developing that :o |
| 16:51.30 | pupnik | well i'm not really doing much except for trying to find tweaks |
| 16:52.02 | *** join/#maemo astro76n800 (n=james@unaffiliated/astro76) |
| 16:52.41 | flip^ | cool... lemme know when you've got it packaged again... i could do with something to idle away some time with (and wiped my tablet since i put it on last) |
| 16:53.00 | pupnik | oh and setting up one-click installs too. i have to find a place to host .install files with the proper mimetype (my webhoster won't let me set the htaccess) |
| 16:53.59 | Tak | pupnik: host them on garage |
| 16:54.43 | flip^ | did the php fix not help, pupnik ? |
| 16:55.06 | pupnik | can't do the php either - yeah i will have to host on garage i think |
| 16:55.43 | pupnik | at least the install file - the repo will probably have to stay on my webhost due to garage size constraints |
| 16:55.59 | pupnik | unless they are generous with exceptions |
| 16:56.18 | flip^ | how big is it? |
| 16:56.21 | pupnik | oh and i did finally get the repository working |
| 16:56.55 | pupnik | a number of things are > 2MB |
| 16:57.14 | *** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@gozur.sunflowerbroadband.com) |
| 16:57.40 | flip^ | not sure how to set up the mime type properly, but i'd be happy to set you up some hosting space on a box i have full control over, if you ever need it |
| 16:58.03 | *** join/#maemo mzlplx (n=admin@12-202-30-153.client.mchsi.com) |
| 16:58.52 | *** part/#maemo mzlplx (n=admin@12-202-30-153.client.mchsi.com) |
| 16:59.49 | Tak | xmame is ~3.5M |
| 17:00.43 | *** join/#maemo l7 (n=l7@evil-wire.org) |
| 17:02.47 | pupnik | flip^: yeah if i could just upload some .install files and point to them from my site, that'd be all i need. |
| 17:03.03 | pupnik | i could also host them on a box at home and set up dyndns |
| 17:03.07 | *** join/#maemo ijon_ (n=ijon@dhcp218-147.yandex.ru) |
| 17:03.58 | flip^ | pupnik: give me a mo :) |
| 17:04.28 | *** join/#maemo ryanfaerman (n=ryanfaer@crlspr-69.65.71.237.myacc.net) |
| 17:05.31 | *** join/#maemo JussiP (n=jpakkane@xdsl-83-145-207-155.nebulazone.fi) |
| 17:07.50 | *** join/#maemo mzlplx (n=admin@12-202-30-153.client.mchsi.com) |
| 17:11.20 | script | how do you handle differences between organisation of hildon-headers between gregale and chinook? <hildon/..> vs. <hildon-widgets/...> in your code? |
| 17:11.42 | _berto_ | with #ifdef's |
| 17:11.55 | script | how does that #ifdef look? |
| 17:12.26 | _berto_ | #if defined(MAEMO2) || defined(MAEMO3) |
| 17:12.26 | _berto_ | #include <hildon-widgets/hildon-program.h> |
| 17:12.26 | _berto_ | #elif defined(MAEMO4) |
| 17:12.26 | _berto_ | #include <hildon/hildon-program.h> |
| 17:12.26 | _berto_ | #endif |
| 17:12.46 | script | and these MEAMO[23] get defined where? |
| 17:13.13 | _berto_ | have a look at my configure.ac -> https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/2533/vagalume_0.2-1.tar.gz |
| 17:13.55 | script | _berto_: thanks |
| 17:14.08 | script | is that robust? is that best practice? |
| 17:14.38 | _berto_ | well, of course there are other ways, but that worked for me |
| 17:14.54 | _berto_ | you could check for those headers in your configure.ac |
| 17:15.07 | script | ok, i'm just curious if there's a standard-way |
| 17:16.53 | script | but anyways, your way looks pretty nice |
| 17:17.09 | script | i guess i'll adopt that |
| 17:21.57 | _berto_ | I guess that the best way would be to check for those particular headers |
| 17:22.06 | _berto_ | and define HAVE_HILDON_WIDGETS or something like that |
| 17:22.25 | _berto_ | but this one's working now, I'll change it someday |
| 17:24.32 | alterego | Well, that way isn't exactly fool proof. |
| 17:24.46 | alterego | And it'll get complicated pretty quickly. |
| 17:25.14 | _berto_ | yes, might be, I chose to detect which version of Maemo I'm compiling on |
| 17:25.37 | alterego | You're not compiling against maemo though are you. |
| 17:25.42 | _berto_ | I only have 3 possible options so it isn't difficult |
| 17:25.47 | alterego | You're compiling against Hildon & OSSO or whatever. |
| 17:26.17 | alterego | If you want to be portable. To other platforms using Hildon you should check for Hildon versions. |
| 17:26.35 | _berto_ | true |
| 17:26.44 | alterego | If you're dead set on just Maemo, then you only really need to support the most recent OS for each tablet (2006 & 2008) |
| 17:27.16 | _berto_ | but there are many users of 2007 out there |
| 17:27.37 | alterego | Not for long. |
| 17:27.59 | alterego | Sure, right now 2007 but in two weeks it'll be 2008 and no one will be using 2007 :) |
| 17:28.19 | Tak | ...except people with 770s |
| 17:28.21 | _berto_ | I'm not that sure, but anyway if that ever happens I can stop making packages for 2007 |
| 17:28.30 | _berto_ | that's not a problem |
| 17:28.39 | *** join/#maemo vivijim (n=vivijim@200.184.118.132) |
| 17:28.43 | alterego | Tak, presumably if they're that into their 770 they'll install 2008HE when it gets released. |
| 17:28.52 | Tak | ...in 2010 |
| 17:28.58 | _berto_ | I'm targeting 2006 2007 and 2008, changing the configure.ac to support other platforms that use hildon is not complicated |
| 17:29.08 | _berto_ | but I probably won't do that until the problem appears |
| 17:29.30 | alterego | I tend to target the latest (2008) and backport the problem API's :) |
| 17:30.39 | *** join/#maemo Atarii (n=Atarii@82-46-182-49.cable.ubr02.perr.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 17:30.44 | _berto_ | I'm targeting the latest as well, but as long as it compiles in 2007 and 2006 I'll add support for them too |
| 17:31.33 | alterego | Well, I'll be stopping support for 2007 when 2008 comes out. So they wont get any of the new API I implement. |
| 17:31.45 | alterego | I've not done any recent 2006 packages either. |
| 17:31.50 | alterego | Though I'll do those on request. |
| 17:32.56 | _berto_ | well, I'll try to support any platform as long as there are users |
| 17:33.29 | _berto_ | if it's not difficult to make the program work on a particular platform, I can add support for it |
| 17:33.42 | bedboi | what's this android shit. Java, please be serious. |
| 17:34.28 | alterego | Hmm, Android. They're pretty much directly competing with ARM's own brand that they recently announced. |
| 17:35.06 | bedboi | lol, google-- |
| 17:35.13 | bedboi | java, damn they must be joking. |
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| 17:42.24 | _berto_ | and it seems that it uses a different bytecode |
| 17:42.54 | alterego | I wonder why apple didn't stick Java on the iBone |
| 17:44.21 | solmumaha | alterego: os2006 package request |
| 17:44.33 | alterego | solmumaha, okay :P |
| 17:44.42 | solmumaha | thanks |
| 17:44.55 | alterego | That does mean installing the 2.2 SDK again :/ |
| 17:45.05 | solmumaha | :( |
| 17:46.00 | solmumaha | i'm in no hurry |
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| 17:46.39 | alterego | Cool, you can wait until I get my new laptop next week :P |
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| 17:47.11 | solmumaha | sure |
| 17:47.37 | zoran | alterego, where is the pool/repo? |
| 17:48.06 | alterego | maemo.rubyx.co.uk |
| 17:48.09 | alterego | There is no repo. |
| 17:48.15 | zoran | k |
| 17:48.18 | alterego | I'll stick them into extras when I release the next version. |
| 17:48.32 | alterego | The 770 packages haven't been updated since you last used them though. |
| 17:49.19 | zoran | we are talking about rubymaemo for 2006? |
| 17:50.42 | alterego | zoran, indeed. |
| 17:52.09 | *** join/#maemo pdz- (n=paul@135.14.169.217.in-addr.arpa) |
| 17:52.16 | solmumaha | alterego: i'm in no hurry for the packages, but i think you should support 770 if it's not hard |
| 17:52.18 | pupnik | anybody with a N810 here ? |
| 17:52.35 | pupnik | yes plz support 770 :) |
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| 17:59.19 | Andy80 | hi |
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| 18:06.32 | alterego | solmumaha, it's not that it's hard. It's just there are deprecated libraries in OS2006 that don't exist in later versions. |
| 18:07.37 | alterego | So sure, you can have the libs that are shared across. Like Hildon and OSSO. But things like the internet connection managing library is different. Which means binding a whole new library solely for the 770 |
| 18:08.46 | solmumaha | well that sounds hard :) |
| 18:09.09 | alterego | Not hard, just time consuming. |
| 18:09.19 | alterego | That's if it's possible. Some libraries just can't be bound. |
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| 18:09.23 | pupnik | what is developer price for N810? |
| 18:09.33 | alterego | 99EUR |
| 18:10.05 | alterego | £69.12 at the moment :) |
| 18:10.47 | _matthias_ | alterego: 69.12 ??? |
| 18:11.15 | alterego | _matthias_, that's what google says. |
| 18:11.23 | alterego | google "99EUR in GBP" |
| 18:11.26 | *** join/#maemo Masca (n=Masca@131.178.167.238) |
| 18:11.37 | _matthias_ | ah ok ;) |
| 18:11.56 | _matthias_ | fortunately my payments are in EUR ... saves conversion calculations on my side ;) |
| 18:12.16 | _berto_ | and the retail price? |
| 18:12.38 | alterego | ~360EUR I believe |
| 18:13.10 | _berto_ | cheaper than the N800 |
| 18:13.21 | alterego | Then I'm probably wrong. |
| 18:13.27 | solmumaha | 460 more like it |
| 18:14.01 | alterego | Still, I wonder why they're so much cheaper than the N series |
| 18:14.04 | alterego | phones .. |
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| 18:14.24 | alterego | New lot that is. There are obviously cheaper N series phones. |
| 18:15.16 | alterego | I suppose without carriers and a contract they have to have lower prices to make them affordable to Joe public. |
| 18:16.22 | _matthias_ | jap probably |
| 18:16.36 | alterego | Heh, I don't think so ;) |
| 18:16.55 | alterego | The tablets are built in the same way as their handsets. |
| 18:18.35 | pupnik | the high-end phones are also sold to businessmen who have much money :) |
| 18:19.52 | alterego | Heh |
| 18:20.11 | alterego | Okay, the 6500 looks sweat. |
| 18:20.17 | alterego | ~sweet .. Not sweat |
| 18:22.13 | alterego | I suppose the money I'm saving from not having to pay full price for the N810 covers it .. |
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| 18:24.55 | czr | "the money you save"? :-) |
| 18:25.00 | czr | interesting logic :-) |
| 18:25.28 | _matthias_ | alterego: hm ... can i connect you with my girlfriend on the phone to explain her ;) |
| 18:25.29 | czr | sounds like my justification for buying expensive hw "just think of all the money I'll save by not going to bars and movies while working on this stuff" |
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| 18:27.02 | alterego | Hahah |
| 18:27.17 | alterego | I didn't think of that czr. Thanks, another good reason ;) |
| 18:27.29 | czr | alterego, I've been doing this for ages :-) |
| 18:27.39 | czr | I have any self-deceptive reasons. |
| 18:27.54 | czr | many. should vacuum the keyboard it seems. |
| 18:28.32 | alterego | The problem with phones, unlike tablets is they can't be updated (software wize) which kind of stops me from wanting to spend money on the neat ones :/ |
| 18:30.16 | alterego | Would give me an oportunity to work on Ruby S60 though :) |
| 18:33.55 | czr | S60 always did sound like a Volvo model in my ears |
| 18:34.13 | czr | "why on earth would you want to write java applications for that?!?" |
| 18:34.33 | czr | let's see whether 4.0 works properly |
| 18:35.09 | alterego | :) |
| 18:35.23 | alterego | The install was painless. |
| 18:35.36 | alterego | I edited the installer script to install using custom target names. |
| 18:35.43 | alterego | I like 'maemo4-sdk-armel' etc. |
| 18:35.59 | czr | yup |
| 18:36.04 | czr | at least the name has some logic now |
| 18:36.15 | czr | I wish they'd drop the silly capitalization though |
| 18:37.36 | tko | SillyCaps |
| 18:37.53 | czr | tko, noooo, how dare you insult them? :-) |
| 18:38.04 | czr | I call them HumanFriendlyButUnnecessarilyLongCaps |
| 18:38.08 | tko | oh.. silly_caps then? |
| 18:38.18 | czr | much better :-) |
| 18:39.55 | czr | bleh. seems that I forgot to add the composite thingy to xephyr again. what was the xephyr cmdline? |
| 18:40.15 | czr | ah, it's in the install.txt |
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| 18:49.40 | lopz | brb |
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| 18:52.35 | lopz | re |
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| 19:09.30 | alterego | FOTA? That sounds promising. |
| 19:13.15 | czr | hmm. is it possible to pass an envvar from outside sbox to inside, when doing login? |
| 19:13.24 | czr | (just want the DISPLAY to pass automatically) |
| 19:14.23 | czr | hmm. when I start appmanager in the sdk, it starts by outputting "Operation Failed" hildon_banner. any idea why? |
| 19:14.38 | *** join/#maemo simon_ (n=simon@w208.wist.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 19:14.50 | czr | also "check for updates" yields the same hildon_banner |
| 19:16.10 | suihkulokki | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:16.42 | *** join/#maemo shackan (n=frob@87.17.139.199) |
| 19:17.44 | alterego | You could always wrap your /scratchbox/login into a scratchbox script/ |
| 19:18.15 | alterego | Make it edit a .varsrc file or something |
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| 19:19.01 | alterego | I'm half sold on getting a S40 phone that as AV out rather than the cheaper N73 :/ |
| 19:19.03 | alterego | :) |
| 19:19.46 | alterego | Sure, the N73 has 2G miniSD supplied, which is directly compatible with the N810. But I really like the AV out idea .. |
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| 19:23.29 | daniels | czr: passing $DISPLAY is usually no good unless you also bind-mount /tmp |
| 19:23.51 | Andy80 | is it possible to use the browser application from the maemo SDK? |
| 19:24.15 | czr | daniels, hmm. one can use TCP for the connection though |
| 19:24.22 | czr | no need to pass tmp/X-sock |
| 19:24.34 | daniels | well, you _can_ use TCP, sure ... |
| 19:24.52 | daniels | (that was the 'usually' in my sentence above, but it's not like using TCP is any good.) |
| 19:25.26 | czr | daniels, yes, but TCP is used in the current SDK setup. so what's the problem? |
| 19:25.33 | czr | I know it's not as fast or anything. but this is for SDK. |
| 19:26.26 | daniels | right. if you're doing it on the local machine, why faff around with tcp? just pass the socket. |
| 19:26.45 | czr | who said I was using a local machine? |
| 19:26.55 | czr | X-forwarding over ssh actually :-) |
| 19:28.16 | *** join/#maemo penguinbait (n=sage-@207.148.201.82) |
| 19:28.24 | czr | so, back to the original question. how do I pass an envvar on /scratchbox/login automatically? |
| 19:28.43 | penguinbait | add it to your profile? |
| 19:28.49 | alterego | czr, .varsrc ? |
| 19:28.54 | alterego | ;P |
| 19:28.59 | czr | alterego, .varsrc? |
| 19:29.09 | alterego | or .displayrc |
| 19:29.16 | czr | penguinbait, it's going to be different each time. |
| 19:29.21 | czr | bleh :-) |
| 19:29.41 | penguinbait | sorry comming in late, have no idead about what your talking about :) |
| 19:29.43 | alterego | cat sock > $SCRATCHBOX_HOME/.displayrc |
| 19:30.01 | alterego | Then in your scratchbox .bashrc. Get it to source that file. |
| 19:31.13 | *** join/#maemo javamaniac (n=gerardo@pwnd.gerardo.com.ve) |
| 19:31.16 | czr | alterego, bleh |
| 19:31.23 | czr | I don't want to type anything within sbox.. |
| 19:31.34 | czr | _automatic_. |
| 19:31.48 | penguinbait | may I ask what your trying to accomplish? czr? |
| 19:31.54 | czr | is there a file with envvars that will be read for a user on sbox-login then? |
| 19:32.07 | czr | penguinbait, getting DISPLAY to pass over into sbox on /scratchbox/login |
| 19:32.15 | czr | independent of its contents. |
| 19:32.16 | daniels | czr: .bashrc |
| 19:32.22 | czr | daniels, how? |
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| 19:32.30 | alterego | czr, you wont need to. |
| 19:32.37 | alterego | .bashrc!!! |
| 19:32.41 | alterego | Jeez. |
| 19:32.48 | penguinbait | .bashrc is executed on login |
| 19:32.49 | *** join/#maemo Crying_EM0_Soul (n=emo-soul@195.5.124.14) |
| 19:32.57 | czr | no it's not, but that's besides the point |
| 19:33.04 | alterego | .profile then |
| 19:33.09 | czr | yup |
| 19:33.09 | penguinbait | .profile then |
| 19:33.11 | alterego | Hey |
| 19:33.11 | penguinbait | hehe |
| 19:33.13 | czr | or .bash_profile. |
| 19:33.25 | penguinbait | failing to see the issue? |
| 19:33.43 | czr | let me see then. I'll need to wrap the login so that executing that will store the contents of DISPLAY into the .bash_profile within sbox before executing the sbox/login |
| 19:33.47 | alterego | so: source ~/.displayrc |
| 19:34.00 | alterego | in your profile. |
| 19:34.05 | Crying_EM0_Soul | hello |
| 19:34.16 | alterego | And cat sock > $sbox_home/.displayrc |
| 19:34.25 | czr | alterego, cat sock? |
| 19:34.27 | alterego | Exactly what I've been trying to say the whole time .. |
| 19:34.35 | *** join/#maemo beavis (n=mk@dslb-084-062-051-021.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 19:34.37 | lopz | bye |
| 19:34.38 | alterego | You gave a location. |
| 19:34.39 | czr | ah yes. I see now. |
| 19:34.44 | penguinbait | BEAVIS!! |
| 19:34.51 | czr | alterego, location of what? :-) |
| 19:34.57 | czr | sorry for being such an idiot :-) |
| 19:35.01 | alterego | X_sock or something. |
| 19:35.09 | alterego | If it's the SSH env var just echo it :P |
| 19:35.11 | czr | ah, I see |
| 19:35.20 | czr | yup. that's the plan |
| 19:35.35 | czr | it's an SSH env var called "DISPLAY" ;-) |
| 19:35.44 | alterego | Suprise :P |
| 19:36.13 | alterego | Hmm .. This must be bad karma after me. |
| 19:36.24 | czr | me? :-) |
| 19:36.31 | czr | I'm not bad karma. just annoying mostly. |
| 19:36.41 | alterego | No, not you :P |
| 19:39.46 | *** join/#maemo AD-N770 (n=jep@24.Red-80-26-22.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 19:40.29 | Crying_EM0_Soul | íàõóé |
| 19:41.56 | alterego | O_o |
| 19:42.16 | Crying_EM0_Soul | ãã |
| 19:42.34 | czr | spambot |
| 19:42.35 | alterego | What are you trying to accomplish Crying_EM0_Soul ? |
| 19:42.40 | czr | don't feed it |
| 19:42.45 | alterego | Spam bot with a low IQ. |
| 19:42.57 | czr | hey, it's EMO, emotionally challeneged, after all :-) |
| 19:43.46 | Crying_EM0_Soul | do you speak Russia? |
| 19:43.50 | alterego | No |
| 19:43.55 | Crying_EM0_Soul | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:44.00 | alterego | (maybe he thinks MaEmo is for emo's ..) |
| 19:44.11 | Crying_EM0_Soul | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:44.13 | czr | alterego, heh, could be :-) didn't realize that before |
| 19:44.18 | czr | Crying_EM0_Soul, please stop. english only. |
| 19:44.30 | czr | or UTF-8 at least. |
| 19:44.33 | Crying_EM0_Soul | ãã |
| 19:44.48 | Crying_EM0_Soul | only-uu |
| 19:45.10 | *** join/#maemo chelli (n=chelli@p54B86E64.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:46.27 | *** join/#maemo shackan (n=frob@87.10.147.84) |
| 19:46.53 | Crying_EM0_Soul | I am from Ukraine |
| 19:47.05 | alterego | Great |
| 19:47.11 | alterego | We don't speak Russian |
| 19:47.24 | alterego | You could always try using google translate if you want to communicate. |
| 19:47.25 | Crying_EM0_Soul | ïëîõî |
| 19:47.28 | alterego | STOP IT! |
| 19:47.36 | czr | alterego, actually some of us do read it. |
| 19:47.41 | czr | but he's not using utf-8. |
| 19:47.46 | alterego | I know. |
| 19:47.47 | daniels | koi8-r? |
| 19:47.51 | alterego | Yes |
| 19:47.54 | czr | or koi8-u |
| 19:47.59 | alterego | He's not? |
| 19:48.06 | alterego | He must be using that other one then |
| 19:48.31 | czr | UTF-13 maybe :-) |
| 19:48.55 | Cord | . o O ( quad-rot13 ( |
| 19:50.21 | alterego | Heh |
| 19:50.56 | Crying_EM0_Soul | òîîëàã |
| 19:51.01 | Crying_EM0_Soul | ãã |
| 19:51.21 | czr | ops? |
| 19:52.11 | alterego | Strange how he repeats the same sequence. |
| 19:52.14 | czr | alterego, I now have displayrc. works nicely. |
| 19:52.24 | czr | alterego, must be generic programming. |
| 19:52.28 | czr | genetic even :-) |
| 19:52.39 | Crying_EM0_Soul | my name is Nastay |
| 19:53.34 | *** join/#maemo red-zack (n=mk@dslb-084-062-051-021.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 19:54.02 | _|Nix|_ | Dammit! I created a page on the Maemo wiki and I don't remember what I called it! Is there a place that lists the wiki pages created by me? |
| 19:55.01 | penguinbait | http://maemo.org/list-pages-I-created.htm |
| 19:55.07 | alterego | Heh |
| 19:55.07 | penguinbait | hehe |
| 19:55.15 | penguinbait | OK perhaps thats not correct |
| 19:55.48 | *** part/#maemo Crying_EM0_Soul (n=emo-soul@195.5.124.14) |
| 19:56.05 | _|Nix|_ | ... but seriously, folks ... |
| 19:56.18 | *** join/#maemo l7 (n=l7@evil-wire.org) |
| 19:56.39 | alterego | wget http://wiki.maemo.org/recent_changes | grep '_|Nix|_' |
| 19:56.47 | alterego | IF you did it recently :) |
| 19:56.51 | *** join/#maemo pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 19:56.52 | alterego | Those names are a guess .. |
| 19:57.10 | _|Nix|_ | Page "recent_changes" not found in wiki Wiki. |
| 19:57.24 | _|Nix|_ | :o( |
| 19:57.30 | l7 | you could google site:wiki.maemo.org |
| 19:57.34 | _|Nix|_ | At least firefox says so ... |
| 19:57.38 | alterego | Those names are a guess. |
| 19:57.46 | alterego | Look for the recent pages page. |
| 19:57.58 | alterego | recent changse .. |
| 19:58.32 | _|Nix|_ | Your search - site:wiki.maemo.org recent changes - did not match any documents. |
| 19:59.14 | _|Nix|_ | It's "latest changes", not "recent changes" ... |
| 19:59.45 | alterego | I told you I wasn't sure. |
| 19:59.51 | alterego | Use your imagination :P |
| 19:59.51 | l7 | _|Nix|_: does googling for your name work? |
| 20:00.27 | penguinbait | That is one thing penguinbait, likes about the name penguinbait |
| 20:00.33 | penguinbait | there is only one :) |
| 20:00.39 | _|Nix|_ | l7: http://www.informatik.uni-trier.de/~ley/db/indices/a-tree/s/Schulhof:Gabriel.html |
| 20:00.48 | _|Nix|_ | l7: That's the first link ... |
| 20:01.05 | l7 | weird |
| 20:01.08 | alterego | There's loads of alterego's .. |
| 20:01.23 | alterego | But it's been my nick for a long time. |
| 20:01.25 | _|Nix|_ | Oh, you mean my garaga username? |
| 20:01.32 | _|Nix|_ | s/garaga/garage/ |
| 20:01.33 | l7 | _|Nix|_: it looks like google did not index wiki.maemo.org |
| 20:01.39 | l7 | only maemo.org |
| 20:02.07 | _|Nix|_ | l7: But wiki.maemo.org simply redirects to maemo.org/community/wiki ... that's probably why. |
| 20:02.16 | alterego | Do a search for alterego and ruby-maemo though. And I'm all over the shop :) |
| 20:02.44 | l7 | yeah |
| 20:02.51 | _|Nix|_ | Hmmm ... have you guys tried to tag the wiki pages with your projects UNIX name to have it show up under product/OS200x/yourproduct? |
| 20:02.54 | l7 | try site:maemo.org/community/wiki/ |
| 20:02.56 | _|Nix|_ | I tried it and it didn't. |
| 20:03.11 | l7 | is this it? http://maemo.org/community/wiki/latest |
| 20:03.21 | _|Nix|_ | Yep. |
| 20:03.43 | l7 | ah good |
| 20:04.39 | *** join/#maemo shackan (n=frob@87.10.147.84) |
| 20:05.13 | pupnik | that nickname disturbs my eyes when scanning the channel |
| 20:07.03 | alterego | Holy moley |
| 20:10.42 | alterego | N800 doesn't get OS2008 until december :/ |
| 20:11.06 | daniels | the n800 and n810 os2008 downloads will be released simultaneously |
| 20:11.18 | alterego | That's not what the Nokia site says. |
| 20:11.29 | daniels | it's not a port, like the hacker edition, so it's not a matter of trying to make it run |
| 20:11.32 | daniels | which site? |
| 20:11.40 | alterego | tableteer.nokia.com |
| 20:12.30 | alterego | "For current Nokia N800 users we will launch the online availability of th new OS2008 upgrade during December" |
| 20:13.52 | penguinbait | DEC for 2008OS on n800? |
| 20:13.53 | alterego | Which is a pain, because I can't download skype because it's just showing the OS2008 page >:( |
| 20:13.58 | daniels | well, i'm not going to try to argue with you ... |
| 20:14.08 | penguinbait | hmm, they already have people with n800's running it |
| 20:14.18 | alterego | You're arguing with the statement on that site. |
| 20:14.20 | alterego | I couldn't care less. |
| 20:14.38 | *** join/#maemo pc_speaker (n=Miranda@170-212-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net) |
| 20:16.43 | *** join/#maemo lardman (n=lardman@enpc-smm11.bath.ac.uk) |
| 20:20.53 | pc_speaker | Hi everyone! |
| 20:20.55 | pc_speaker | Any new rumors on OS update release? |
| 20:20.58 | alterego | I can't find the flippin' rootfs download page >:( |
| 20:21.06 | timeless | ? |
| 20:21.09 | alterego | Zere are deh flash images. |
| 20:21.11 | timeless | it's at the obvious location |
| 20:21.22 | timeless | the flash image itself wasn't up last i checked |
| 20:21.28 | timeless | although the md5sum was posted :) |
| 20:21.34 | alterego | I don't want the OS2008 |
| 20:21.38 | alterego | I need the OS2007 |
| 20:21.58 | timeless | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N800.php |
| 20:22.09 | timeless | assuming you don't want he |
| 20:22.22 | timeless | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/os2007_hacker_edition.php |
| 20:23.15 | alterego | Neah, I don't need the wanker edition |
| 20:25.00 | timeless | "support"? |
| 20:25.05 | timeless | oh, for wankering? |
| 20:25.07 | alterego | It does with the strapon |
| 20:25.07 | pc_speaker | And what about other n800 channel, The #n800? What server is it on? |
| 20:25.09 | alterego | I mean add on, |
| 20:25.13 | czr | heh alterego |
| 20:25.29 | pc_speaker | Hacker edition is great thing for 770 owners :) |
| 20:25.42 | alterego | Yeah, |
| 20:25.44 | alterego | Me too. |
| 20:25.52 | czr | have an 770 lying around |
| 20:26.01 | czr | I don't think I've booted it up for.. ages. |
| 20:26.13 | alterego | Strange how the first OS2007 release was tagged 2006 |
| 20:26.21 | alterego | Maybe that's the release date. |
| 20:26.28 | alterego | When was the N800 released? |
| 20:26.38 | pc_speaker | Ages ago :) |
| 20:26.39 | czr | gah. 4.0 env takes 2.7 gigs of space |
| 20:27.00 | czr | (including the distro) |
| 20:27.05 | alterego | czr, you installed _all_ the debugging libs didn't you .. |
| 20:27.12 | czr | alterego, ummmm. no? :-) |
| 20:27.20 | *** join/#maemo BloodyO (n=stevew@72.19.174.1) |
| 20:27.21 | alterego | Whas that a no? |
| 20:27.23 | alterego | Or a yes? |
| 20:27.24 | alterego | :) |
| 20:27.25 | czr | no |
| 20:27.28 | czr | used the defaults :-) |
| 20:27.33 | alterego | Ah. |
| 20:27.50 | czr | note that I removed all the rootstrap tars and downloaded debs already |
| 20:28.19 | alterego | Well, mines ~4G |
| 20:28.25 | alterego | That's maemo3 and maemo4 |
| 20:28.33 | alterego | But that's just the scratchbox install .. |
| 20:28.48 | alterego | I've not looked into VMWare server yet. |
| 20:28.52 | daniels | alterego: the releases are named yyyy.ww-n. so, 2006.47-n was the nth release of week 47, 2006. likewise 2006.51-n. |
| 20:28.59 | czr | sbox/ takes ~1.5 GiB |
| 20:29.06 | czr | rest is distro stuff |
| 20:29.08 | daniels | (obviously, to be in stores on jan 8th, they had to be manufactured in 2006.) |
| 20:29.09 | alterego | daniels, that's what I thought. |
| 20:29.22 | alterego | Well, except the week bit. |
| 20:29.35 | daniels | welcome to finland: everything here is dealt with in week numbers. |
| 20:29.41 | alterego | What's RX-34 about then? |
| 20:29.54 | pupnik | week numbers make things easier for task planning |
| 20:30.06 | daniels | rx-34 is just the model number of the n800, as su-18 was to the 770. all our products have a model number. |
| 20:30.18 | alterego | I presume (PR) is "public release" |
| 20:30.20 | daniels | (rx-44 is the n810, as can be ascertained from the label.) |
| 20:30.33 | alterego | Cool |
| 20:30.33 | BloodyO | Hello, I just upgraded my N800 to the latest software and I can no longer get a working Wlan connection. It shows it is receiving data but not sending and I am in the same room as the access point so it has full bars. Any clues on what to do next? I aleady tried restarting it, removing the battery, restarting the access point. |
| 20:30.34 | timeless | i think it's actually product release |
| 20:30.36 | daniels | alterego: PR = product image. we have a few more internally, for testing, etc. |
| 20:30.55 | timeless | "few" |
| 20:31.02 | timeless | is that half a dozen, or an even dozen? |
| 20:31.06 | alterego | So you try and release an image every quarter? |
| 20:31.10 | *** join/#maemo fysa (n=j@653414hfc175.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 20:31.11 | timeless | no |
| 20:31.16 | timeless | there are weekly builds |
| 20:31.19 | timeless | often quite a few |
| 20:31.20 | daniels | pupnik: except when someone asks you if you can do something by w45, so you have to reflexively turn around and open up the calendar popup on your laptop, to map that to a week range. |
| 20:31.28 | alterego | I meant a public release image. |
| 20:31.30 | timeless | each set w/ images (pr) and e.g. testing |
| 20:31.38 | daniels | timeless: last i checked, 6. (pr, tr, ta, rd, ex, and one more i can never remember) |
| 20:31.38 | timeless | management decides |
| 20:31.46 | timeless | and they change their mind more often than they decide |
| 20:31.51 | alterego | Hahah |
| 20:31.52 | timeless | if they told us, we couldn't tell you |
| 20:32.02 | timeless | on that, they seem to be clear |
| 20:32.13 | daniels | indeed. if it's public, you already know it. if it isn't, we can't talk about it. |
| 20:32.24 | pupnik | weeknumbers only work if you use them frequently and always know what weeknumber it is |
| 20:32.28 | timeless | i'm fairly surprised daniels listed the image names |
| 20:32.35 | timeless | although technically the web browser leaks them :) |
| 20:32.38 | *** part/#maemo fysa (n=j@653414hfc175.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 20:32.40 | *** join/#maemo fysa (n=j@653414hfc175.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 20:32.45 | timeless | but no one seemed to care :) |
| 20:32.56 | alterego | how did he leak the image names? |
| 20:33.06 | timeless | he listed them a few lines ago? |
| 20:33.08 | *** part/#maemo fysa (n=j@653414hfc175.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 20:33.10 | *** join/#maemo fysa (n=j@653414hfc175.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 20:33.15 | daniels | but it might help to see them as separate products. itos2007 was one 'product', which had two enhancement releases (2006w47 originally, then 2006w51, then 2007w10). os2008 is a new product, so i guess draw your own conclusions. but it's not a straight 2006w47->2006w51->2007w10 evolution. |
| 20:33.42 | timeless | you missed a product :) |
| 20:33.42 | alterego | Sure, I get that. |
| 20:33.50 | daniels | timeless: if disclosing that information (without attached names, even) is bad, then that's the least of our problems ... |
| 20:33.53 | timeless | since somewhere floating around there was something after 10 :) |
| 20:34.03 | timeless | daniels:... :) |
| 20:34.05 | alterego | I presumed they were timestamps of some sort. |
| 20:34.07 | daniels | timeless: oh, there was? i didn't notice. |
| 20:34.17 | timeless | there was an entire name after it :) |
| 20:34.21 | *** join/#maemo Ivan_Chelubeev (n=ijon@ppp85-141-80-74.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) |
| 20:34.22 | timeless | and that i won't mention, that'd be telling |
| 20:34.23 | pupnik | i can't wait to see what a transflective screen looks like in sunlight! |
| 20:34.25 | fysa | finally. ZNC working. |
| 20:34.25 | daniels | alterego: the n is the release number within that week, and we might roll a few before it's perfect. but there's no real timestamp other than yyyy.ww. |
| 20:34.37 | alterego | Right |
| 20:34.37 | fysa | better than dircproxy I think as it supports multi simultaneous clients |
| 20:34.41 | alterego | That's cool. |
| 20:34.49 | timeless | yeah that last number is basically useless |
| 20:34.54 | timeless | you could have an 18 |
| 20:34.59 | timeless | or you could have a 2 |
| 20:34.59 | alterego | I see an 8 |
| 20:35.08 | timeless | daniels: that first stuff wasn't |
| 20:35.10 | alterego | That must have been a bad week ;) |
| 20:35.11 | daniels | yeah, it's meaningless, unless you have the other 7 to compare with |
| 20:35.17 | timeless | it was on the previous name |
| 20:35.29 | daniels | timeless: mumble mumble handwave |
| 20:35.44 | daniels | as far as the external world's concerned, it's all pure and seamless |
| 20:35.47 | alterego | Nokia seems like a really nice company to work there. |
| 20:35.54 | alterego | If I was in Finland I'd apply :) |
| 20:36.00 | *** join/#maemo amrileria (n=Amrileri@a88-114-52-184.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 20:36.06 | timeless | daniels only covered through 10 |
| 20:36.11 | timeless | Software Edition 2007 version 4.2007.26-8 for Nokia N800 |
| 20:36.11 | timeless | Software Edition 2007 version 4.2007.38-2 for Nokia N800 |
| 20:36.15 | timeless | are listed on |
| 20:36.16 | alterego | The skiing opportunities are good too ^_^ |
| 20:36.16 | timeless | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N800.php |
| 20:36.20 | shackan | daniels: what do people use for on-device profiling over there? oprofile? (gprof is broken btw) |
| 20:36.23 | timeless | 38 of course is actually a joke |
| 20:36.28 | timeless | since it's really 26-8+1 patch |
| 20:36.33 | czr | ah. /me noticed it is now winter. which is evil. |
| 20:36.46 | solmumaha | alterego: why would you want to make tires? |
| 20:36.47 | timeless | shackan: oprofile |
| 20:36.49 | *** part/#maemo fysa (n=j@653414hfc175.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 20:36.55 | *** join/#maemo fysa (n=j@653414hfc175.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 20:36.59 | shackan | timeless: okay |
| 20:37.01 | timeless | but because of the stupid week numbering |
| 20:37.05 | timeless | it ended up being 38 |
| 20:37.08 | timeless | just to confuse people |
| 20:37.13 | daniels | shackan: yeah, oprofile |
| 20:37.18 | shackan | timeless: oprofile doesn't work in scratchbox tough .... |
| 20:37.23 | czr | solmumaha, I wish they'd still make the rubber boots though |
| 20:37.23 | timeless | for kicks, you can't assume that there is a week between say 1 and 3 |
| 20:37.29 | daniels | timeless: hmm, i can't remember what's in w26, but yeah, i did forget w38 for the mmc fix. |
| 20:37.35 | pupnik | does OS2008 let me do like a fd = open("/dev/dsp",O_WRONLY,0) ? |
| 20:37.39 | timeless | sometimes they get skipped for reasons beyond our understanding |
| 20:37.50 | timeless | daniels: skype/rhapsody/flash |
| 20:37.58 | timeless | it was the only one that had the code name you listed to me |
| 20:38.06 | timeless | the others had the other *handwave* |
| 20:38.09 | Tak | what? os2008 has oss? |
| 20:38.13 | daniels | alterego: the skiing in finland is crap, since we have no mountains greater than 15m elevation. |
| 20:38.20 | alterego | Oh |
| 20:38.22 | alterego | That's a shame. |
| 20:38.23 | daniels | timeless: oh christ, yeah. the stuff i don't care about. |
| 20:38.24 | timeless | yeah, you don't come here to ski |
| 20:38.27 | solmumaha | czr: yes, they kicked ass, nowadays i have to buy a new pair every two years :( |
| 20:38.35 | alterego | daniels, what about hiking/camping? |
| 20:38.38 | timeless | daniels: that makes two of us? |
| 20:38.39 | czr | solmumaha, indeed. that was my point. |
| 20:38.52 | timeless | in theory i believe they fixed some other miscelaneous junk |
| 20:38.57 | czr | solmumaha, they were the best nokia product ever. including the 300 baud models, with the smiley coloration and things. |
| 20:38.58 | timeless | but i don't care enough to check :) |
| 20:38.59 | daniels | alterego: cross-country skiing opportunities are plentiful, ditto camping (only in summer, of course). |
| 20:39.16 | timeless | plenty of opportunities for mosquitos |
| 20:39.17 | czr | daniels, you can go camping up north with snow mobiles. pretty nice too |
| 20:39.22 | solmumaha | stop it, you are making me sad here |
| 20:39.26 | czr | just remember to take a good shovel with you for digging into the snow |
| 20:39.39 | alterego | You don't to winter camping? |
| 20:39.48 | shackan | daniels: what about the language? |
| 20:39.50 | alterego | Camping in snow is awesome .. |
| 20:40.04 | timeless | shackan: the further north you go, the more Finnish you'll want to know |
| 20:40.14 | czr | it's cool yes. which reminds me that I should do it once before leaving the country. |
| 20:40.18 | timeless | in Helsinki, 0 finnish is fine |
| 20:40.38 | alterego | czr, do what? |
| 20:40.41 | daniels | shackan: the language is fucked. nothing wrong with it per se, but persian has a far closer relationship to english than finnish does. |
| 20:40.45 | timeless | go north? |
| 20:40.58 | czr | alterego, go north to bury myself in snow and have fun with snow mobiles |
| 20:41.09 | alterego | czr, yes. That sounds fun :) |
| 20:41.17 | daniels | so don't count on familiarity, unless you're in helsinki or on the south or west coasts, where you'll get signs etc in finnish and swedish alike (though the swedish is often merely lip service). |
| 20:41.35 | alterego | Heh |
| 20:41.39 | alterego | What about English? |
| 20:41.44 | timeless | ok, fwiw, the flashes are still not up |
| 20:41.48 | czr | there's not much english |
| 20:41.56 | alterego | I met someone who works for Nokia the other week. He came to Cambridge to watch a band. |
| 20:42.05 | czr | most people will understand you though |
| 20:42.25 | alterego | Tom something or other. |
| 20:42.29 | daniels | alterego: in helsinki, english is flawlessly understood everywhere. outside of hki, depends, but you can't count on it. as timeless said, latitude is usually a decent metric. |
| 20:42.31 | Jiten | young people especially. It's the old ones who have problems. |
| 20:42.44 | alterego | Nice. |
| 20:42.52 | timeless | young = <40 |
| 20:42.57 | timeless | at this point maybe <45 |
| 20:42.59 | alterego | I should fly over to Helsinki one of these days. |
| 20:43.00 | *** join/#maemo p| (n=pi@62.13.168.67) |
| 20:43.09 | timeless | note that children under 10 are problematic |
| 20:43.09 | alterego | Hah |
| 20:43.17 | timeless | since they start English in 3rd grade |
| 20:43.20 | alterego | Yeah, 10 yo's are b*stards ^_^ |
| 20:43.36 | timeless | so your mileage may vary |
| 20:43.42 | timeless | bring a responsible adult? |
| 20:43.58 | alterego | Me, I'm 24 |
| 20:44.04 | daniels | well, put it this way. any service you receive in a store or restaurant, will have functional english if youneed it. |
| 20:44.14 | timeless | unless you want ingredients |
| 20:44.17 | timeless | in which case, forget it |
| 20:44.20 | alterego | Heh |
| 20:44.29 | timeless | asking for "masking tape" is problematic |
| 20:44.33 | czr | most menus in helsinki area are avail in english as well |
| 20:44.41 | alterego | Are there more nokias in finland than most other phones? |
| 20:44.47 | daniels | alterego: by far |
| 20:44.47 | timeless | yes |
| 20:44.49 | czr | alterego, yes |
| 20:44.51 | alterego | Hah |
| 20:44.58 | daniels | timeless: misc supermarket goods are a fun challenge |
| 20:45.01 | timeless | there are more nokias than people too |
| 20:45.06 | alterego | Hahah |
| 20:45.06 | Jiten | Then again, in some restaurants you sometimes have problems getting service in Finnish :) |
| 20:45.08 | timeless | daniels: indeed |
| 20:45.09 | daniels | usually they result in a phonecall to a friend (e.g. acquiring draino tonight) |
| 20:45.14 | alterego | Know the ratio? |
| 20:45.18 | czr | jiten :-) |
| 20:45.18 | daniels | (kodin putkimies, fwiw) |
| 20:45.30 | alterego | *cough* send me one *cough* |
| 20:45.37 | timeless | note: washing machines and similar appliances ime are also painful |
| 20:45.55 | timeless | getting a laptop that runs windows anything and speaks english turned out to be very painful |
| 20:46.02 | Jiten | some cheaper restaurants have foreigners working and some of the time they won't understand a word of finnish. |
| 20:46.08 | timeless | (we failed, truth be told) |
| 20:46.09 | daniels | alterego: nokia pays 25% of finland's corporate tax, and has 50% of the net worth of the entire helsinki stock exchange. that kind of presence is seriously distorting: travel agents, numerous software subcontractors, hotels, etc, etc, would all go down the drain if n did. |
| 20:46.09 | *** join/#maemo metrox (n=jse@p57B1745E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:46.29 | alterego | Wow. |
| 20:46.32 | alterego | That's .. Amazing .. |
| 20:46.44 | timeless | i like to think of nokia in helsinki as equivalent of the usgov in washington, d.c. |
| 20:46.45 | *** join/#maemo TimRiker (n=timr@psnet.cc) |
| 20:46.55 | timeless | if you aren't working for <whichever> you're working for someone supporting <whichever> |
| 20:46.59 | alterego | Hahah |
| 20:47.11 | daniels | timeless: interesting. when i arrived, i had two laptops on my desk: a t43 with nothing (for linux), and an x40 with winxp. i blew away the x40 since i wanted that as my primary linux laptop, but point being, english winxp was there by default ... |
| 20:47.25 | daniels | my officemate's laptop (he's japanese) is english windows too, and i don't recall him doing anything special. |
| 20:47.28 | timeless | daniels: yeah but NBI gave it to you |
| 20:47.30 | daniels | or do you mean in the mythical land outside of work? |
| 20:47.30 | timeless | no? |
| 20:47.34 | timeless | yes |
| 20:47.34 | daniels | correct |
| 20:47.37 | alterego | Yeah, I hear you need windows for your VPN |
| 20:47.37 | czr | getting en-versions of laptops shouldn't be an issue |
| 20:47.39 | *** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com) |
| 20:47.45 | daniels | alterego: no, vpnc works fine |
| 20:47.48 | daniels | (thank fuck) |
| 20:47.48 | timeless | this was a normal human not working for N |
| 20:47.54 | czr | at least with the branded ones. not sure about the cheap ones |
| 20:47.58 | timeless | alterego: no |
| 20:48.05 | alterego | Maybe it's some collaboration software then. |
| 20:48.06 | timeless | the n800 and 770 and most phones can vpn |
| 20:48.11 | timeless | it's a fairly standard vpn |
| 20:48.26 | alterego | Are there Nokians that _only_ run Linux or Mac? I.E. no windows at all? |
| 20:48.28 | daniels | alterego: exchange is imappable, but some bits do require notes, yes |
| 20:48.29 | timeless | czr: we went with something like dell |
| 20:48.29 | _Monkey | daniels: that doesn't look right |
| 20:48.33 | timeless | i can't remember which major brand |
| 20:48.36 | timeless | but this time, i failed |
| 20:48.39 | daniels | \o/ |
| 20:48.42 | daniels | it died |
| 20:48.44 | czr | timeless, I like dell too. hassle-free service when you know who to call |
| 20:48.47 | timeless | they basically said we could contact ms and pay for one |
| 20:48.55 | alterego | Ghostbusters. |
| 20:48.56 | czr | timeless, and with business models you can drop the windows-tax |
| 20:49.06 | daniels | alterego: i only run linux. i use my officemate's xp laptop whenever i need to file an expense report, but that's it. i have a linux desktop and two linux laptops. |
| 20:49.07 | timeless | czr: in the past, i've called companies and had them ship cds |
| 20:49.12 | alterego | I watched a fan film last night "The return of the ghostbusters" it was pretty good :) |
| 20:49.12 | timeless | it might not have been dell |
| 20:49.19 | timeless | but whichever one this last one was, it was a name brand |
| 20:49.22 | czr | timeless, cds of what? |
| 20:49.24 | timeless | and they wouldn't send english disks |
| 20:49.27 | timeless | cds=dvds |
| 20:49.29 | alterego | daniels, good for you :) That's how I like to work. |
| 20:49.31 | czr | ah, you actually wanted windows :-) |
| 20:49.31 | timeless | os install disk |
| 20:49.38 | czr | I normally want to get laptops without windows :-) |
| 20:49.50 | timeless | you're in this channel, you aren't normal |
| 20:49.55 | timeless | this was a guy about to retire |
| 20:50.01 | czr | ah. |
| 20:50.01 | timeless | and i don't want to do full time tech support |
| 20:50.09 | timeless | hrm, or maybe he's already retired |
| 20:50.26 | timeless | anyway, normally the big companies ship disks anywhere |
| 20:50.28 | timeless | and it's not a problem |
| 20:50.36 | timeless | but whichever vendor this last one was didn't |
| 20:50.45 | timeless | i think the previous time we did it, lg shipped from canada |
| 20:50.48 | timeless | which was nice |
| 20:50.52 | alterego | Hmm .. 6500 or N73 .. |
| 20:51.10 | alterego | I really can't decide. |
| 20:51.20 | czr | get both |
| 20:51.23 | czr | you know you want to |
| 20:51.26 | timeless | don't buy either |
| 20:51.29 | timeless | save for something better |
| 20:51.51 | *** join/#maemo lardman (n=lardman@enpc-smm11.bath.ac.uk) |
| 20:51.56 | alterego | I need a new phone. |
| 20:52.07 | czr | hmm. what's the policy of redistributing the nokia binaries? |
| 20:52.22 | daniels | czr: 'don't.' |
| 20:52.24 | czr | (after they've already been installed, as part of a virtual machine image) |
| 20:52.24 | timeless | "don't" |
| 20:52.28 | czr | ok |
| 20:52.31 | daniels | (this does not constitute official legal advice.) |
| 20:52.32 | czr | thought so |
| 20:52.37 | timeless | ibid |
| 20:52.40 | timeless | or ditto |
| 20:52.42 | czr | oh, don't worry, didn't think so :-) |
| 20:52.47 | daniels | but yeah, iirc the eula is the usual 'one backup for private use only' job. |
| 20:52.58 | czr | yup |
| 20:53.13 | timeless | nokiausa.com doesn't list the 6500 |
| 20:53.15 | czr | well, I won't be releasing the vm then :-) |
| 20:53.23 | czr | makes it easier for me really. |
| 20:53.47 | alterego | It's quad band. |
| 20:54.02 | alterego | You'll have to do a search for it. |
| 20:54.07 | alterego | It's a series 40 |
| 20:54.34 | alterego | There are two models, 'slide' and 'classic' |
| 20:54.44 | *** join/#maemo doublec (n=doublec@202.180.114.137) |
| 20:55.14 | alterego | I dunno, phones are so over priced. |
| 20:55.17 | *** join/#maemo _Monkey (n=_Monkey@dsl-217-155-26-150.zen.co.uk) |
| 20:55.19 | alterego | Or at least I think so .. |
| 20:55.34 | daniels | the 6500 is very nice indeed. slim and sleek. |
| 20:55.42 | timeless | n73 or n73 music? |
| 20:55.46 | alterego | music |
| 20:55.51 | timeless | bah |
| 20:55.56 | alterego | Which comes with a 2G miniSD too |
| 20:56.04 | *** join/#maemo vanhoofp (n=pvanhoof@d54C0EE14.access.telenet.be) |
| 20:56.07 | timeless | 6400 slide or classic? |
| 20:56.10 | timeless | s/4/5/ |
| 20:56.40 | alterego | Well, the classic looks nicer. But the slide has better features for only £10 more. |
| 20:56.44 | timeless | talk is better on 6500 |
| 20:56.53 | timeless | as is colors (claim) |
| 20:57.14 | timeless | max on memory card is also better (4gb v 2gb) |
| 20:57.20 | alterego | I like the idea of having a small thin phone though. The N73 looks kind of bulky. |
| 20:57.33 | timeless | no speakerphone on the 6500?? |
| 20:57.47 | timeless | oh and 6500 is s40 instead of s60 |
| 20:57.53 | alterego | Yeah |
| 20:57.54 | timeless | i think people tend to like s40 better |
| 20:58.05 | timeless | personally, i consider speakerphone a requirement |
| 20:58.12 | alterego | It does have speaker phone. |
| 20:58.15 | Robot101 | 6500 is a more polished 6233 I think |
| 20:58.25 | timeless | alterego: compare claims it doesn't |
| 20:58.27 | alterego | Well, I'm pretty sure it does. It's got video calling for godsake :P |
| 20:58.39 | alterego | Oh, you're looking at the classic right? |
| 20:58.47 | timeless | slide |
| 20:58.53 | timeless | i'd give you a link |
| 20:58.55 | alterego | Sh*t |
| 20:58.57 | timeless | but this stupid thing is a flash app |
| 20:59.05 | alterego | Doesn't matter. I'm there ;) |
| 20:59.23 | suihkulokki | ncurses |
| 20:59.35 | timeless | fwiw, i have 2 documents printed hanging outside my office highlighting bugs in the 770/n800 listings from this site |
| 20:59.39 | alterego | Cool, the N810 just popped up on the nokia site ;) |
| 20:59.40 | timeless | daniels can attest to it |
| 20:59.45 | *** join/#maemo {abo} (n=abo@c-5c4ae455.029-135-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 20:59.57 | timeless | if he hasn't seen it, he can visit tomorrow and then attest :) |
| 21:00.04 | daniels | yeah, i don't often visit that part of the world |
| 21:00.06 | alterego | Hah |
| 21:00.22 | timeless | so in case it isn't clear, i wouldn't actually _trust_ this site |
| 21:00.32 | {abo} | hi |
| 21:00.34 | timeless | i think it's about time to compare n800 w/ n810 |
| 21:00.45 | alterego | Oh, believe me. I've seen plenty of "glitches"/"misinformation" on the nokia sites :) |
| 21:00.57 | alterego | I also respect how much effort must go into maintaining them. |
| 21:01.11 | alterego | The nokia site is probably bigger than Microsoft.com .. |
| 21:01.26 | {abo} | Uhm... The N800 CPU will run at 400 MHz, once you upgrade to the 2008 release, right? |
| 21:01.34 | timeless | {abo} max speed, sure |
| 21:01.37 | timeless | always? no |
| 21:01.40 | timeless | same for the n810 |
| 21:01.59 | *** join/#maemo lardman_ (n=lardman@enpc-smm11.bath.ac.uk) |
| 21:02.07 | penguinbait | yes abo |
| 21:02.07 | timeless | it's the same cpu, but w/ 2008 it's a variable speed w/ a higher max |
| 21:02.12 | {abo} | Is there a good source for this? I believe it, but the delete squads at Wikipedia requires a source. :/ |
| 21:02.25 | timeless | cat /users/daniels |
| 21:02.30 | timeless | i'm not a valid source |
| 21:02.57 | alterego | Okay, I have my discount code. When it hits the country. Can I buy the N810 from a nokia outlet? |
| 21:03.04 | alterego | With the code? |
| 21:03.06 | timeless | doubtful :) |
| 21:03.14 | penguinbait | Mara did some testing with my compiled version of CPUFREQ and it shows 400Mhz on n800 running 2008os |
| 21:03.17 | *** join/#maemo pc_speaker1849 (n=Miranda@170-212-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net) |
| 21:03.45 | penguinbait | Nokia online I think is the only way |
| 21:03.47 | timeless | what would be a valid source? |
| 21:03.57 | *** join/#maemo dshep (n=user@ext-gw.dev.sf.yav4.com) |
| 21:03.59 | alterego | Right, I was just curious. |
| 21:04.14 | alterego | There's a nokia retailer (CBS) right near me. |
| 21:04.26 | alterego | Would be neat if I could just walk in and pick it up :) |
| 21:04.33 | penguinbait | whats there return policy :) |
| 21:04.57 | alterego | Heh |
| 21:05.05 | timeless | ok |
| 21:05.11 | timeless | according to http://europe.nokia.com/products |
| 21:05.14 | *** join/#maemo Pierre (n=nPierre@o207.orange.fastwebserver.de) |
| 21:05.18 | timeless | the n800 does not have "Internet browser with HTML" |
| 21:05.22 | timeless | i'm glad to hear that |
| 21:05.28 | alterego | Hahahah |
| 21:05.39 | penguinbait | My n800 box says I can do video messaging |
| 21:05.41 | timeless | today's going to be a long night |
| 21:05.44 | |R | haha wtf |
| 21:05.45 | penguinbait | anyone know how to do that |
| 21:05.46 | penguinbait | hehe |
| 21:05.50 | *** join/#maemo dockane_ (n=dockane@f048037065.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 21:06.07 | timeless | it also says the n800 doesn't have an fmradio |
| 21:06.11 | alterego | penguinbait, open the camera |
| 21:06.13 | pc_speaker1849 | N800 can do everything if it's operated by Chuck Norris :) |
| 21:06.29 | alterego | timeless, when it was released it didn't ;) |
| 21:06.31 | penguinbait | ok camera open, now what |
| 21:06.35 | alterego | Wait. |
| 21:06.36 | timeless | the n800 doesn't have a speakerphone |
| 21:06.47 | {abo} | timeless: Mah, nevermind, I'll let the "citation needed" stay until the N810 is out, it should be easier to find something that'll be accepted then... |
| 21:07.42 | timeless | {abo} it'll take a bit longer i believe |
| 21:07.43 | penguinbait | says no suitable account defined |
| 21:07.43 | timeless | ok |
| 21:07.43 | timeless | the winners for today |
| 21:07.43 | timeless | the n810 has no weight |
| 21:07.45 | alterego | penguinbait, tah-dah! :P |
| 21:07.54 | timeless | daniels: does the n810 really not have hwr? |
| 21:08.01 | alterego | Must be that new antigrav Nokia have been developing. |
| 21:08.07 | alterego | You know. Drop proof phones. |
| 21:08.13 | alterego | I.E. they can't drop .. |
| 21:08.40 | penguinbait | hopefully 2008 will bring the ability for n800 to talk to n810 and other non nokia devices, like computers |
| 21:08.50 | daniels | {abo}: i can't really speak to the cpu issue, except to say that the power management code is exactly the same, and that 400mhz isn't optimal anyway. running a 400mhz reduces the dsp and, crucially, display bus (rfbi) speeds. |
| 21:09.09 | timeless | ok, the site says the n810 doesn't have hwr |
| 21:09.11 | timeless | too bad it does |
| 21:09.13 | daniels | so, any time you do a display update or use the dsp, it drops the cpu back down to 330mhz in order to run the dsp and rfbi at more optimal speeds. |
| 21:09.19 | timeless | the n810 has no memory card type |
| 21:09.21 | {abo} | daniels: Oh, interesting. |
| 21:09.21 | penguinbait | I am curious how sound quality qill be effected |
| 21:09.21 | timeless | which is funny |
| 21:09.41 | milhouse | timeless - any idea if Media Queries will be supported by Microb? http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-mediaqueries/ |
| 21:09.47 | daniels | but yes, it will hit the odd 400mhz peak. |
| 21:09.57 | timeless | milhouse: does gecko support it? |
| 21:10.02 | daniels | timeless: n810 still has hwr, on account of the software being identical |
| 21:10.12 | daniels | penguinbait: sound quality being affected how? |
| 21:10.16 | timeless | daniels: yeah, i'm just reading the europe.nokia.com compare list |
| 21:10.21 | milhouse | timeless: not firefox 2 but i don't know about the gecko in microb |
| 21:10.22 | timeless | which is lying right and left |
| 21:10.31 | timeless | milhouse: 99.99% certain it doesn't |
| 21:10.39 | daniels | maybe we need to ship more coke to the marketing department. |
| 21:10.47 | timeless | i think they have enough |
| 21:10.53 | penguinbait | by lowering DSP |
| 21:11.04 | alterego | Maybe that's why Linux Format thought the N810 had 10G storage. |
| 21:11.05 | milhouse | timeless: thanks (bit of a shame) - interesting article here about using it to load stylesheets optimised based on screen resolution http://www.alistapart.com/articles/putyourcontentinmypocket |
| 21:11.19 | daniels | penguinbait: ah, no. as soon as you open the dsp device, it doesn't go above 330mhz. so you won't notice any difference: the dsp never drops speed while there's an active task. |
| 21:11.20 | alterego | Admittedly you can see where that number came from. 2+8(max) |
| 21:11.25 | timeless | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=156716 dbaron@mozilla.com bugzilla_kl@3dots.de Future style-system@core.bugs CSS3 "media queries" |
| 21:11.40 | timeless | milhouse: tell the author to take a flying leap |
| 21:12.04 | timeless | ok, this is funny |
| 21:12.16 | milhouse | :) |
| 21:12.23 | timeless | the n810 has Internet Tablet OS 2007 edition: maemo Linux based OS2008 |
| 21:12.25 | timeless | what in the world is that? |
| 21:12.39 | alterego | Sounds funky. |
| 21:12.41 | alterego | I want it. |
| 21:12.53 | timeless | note to anyone reading: i'm quiting a site which is smoking more substances than any person i've ever encountered w/in a couple of miles |
| 21:13.20 | alterego | Heh |
| 21:13.40 | timeless | hrm |
| 21:13.50 | timeless | they recommend a nokia fm transmitter ca 300 |
| 21:14.05 | |R | is the fm radio gone in n810? |
| 21:14.05 | alterego | For cars |
| 21:14.12 | pc_speaker1849 | BTW Apple managed to get 600MHz to the iPhone... Why not use faster CPU in nokia tablets? |
| 21:14.13 | timeless | |r: yes |
| 21:14.16 | |R | k :| |
| 21:14.22 | timeless | pc_speaker: no |
| 21:14.31 | timeless | they have something like 750mhz in the iphone |
| 21:14.34 | alterego | pc_speaker, that sounds wrong. The iPhone's CPU is the same. |
| 21:14.41 | alterego | Wtf? |
| 21:14.47 | pc_speaker1849 | I've heared that iPhone has Samsung 600Mhz ARM... |
| 21:14.49 | |R | actually, the mhz count was overrrated no? |
| 21:14.53 | |R | it was more like 450 |
| 21:15.01 | *** join/#maemo Jiten (n=blight@a88-112-184-11.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 21:15.04 | |R | can't remember where i read that, but the specs were wrong |
| 21:15.14 | alterego | I thought the CPU in the iPhone was the same OMAP in the N8X0 |
| 21:15.18 | *** join/#maemo red-zack (n=mk@dslb-084-062-005-165.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:15.21 | daniels | no, the iphone isn't using the omap. |
| 21:15.26 | pc_speaker1849 | I played with iPod touch recently and the UI is FAST. |
| 21:15.47 | daniels | in any case, they probably just have different priorities. our priority #1 is power consumption. theirs, as can be seen from the use time, isn't. |
| 21:15.48 | *** join/#maemo bstock (n=bstock@68.78.185.227) |
| 21:15.49 | pc_speaker1849 | And the N800 seems a bit slow for me... |
| 21:15.57 | bstock | hey, so any updated release date for 810? |
| 21:15.59 | alterego | Well, they probably have drivers for their 3D/2D acceleration processor *** cough *** |
| 21:16.03 | daniels | pc_speaker1849: that's not the cpu, that's software. we're fixing it,but it's a slow process. |
| 21:16.04 | {abo} | The N95 has the same OMAP, though, right?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? |
| 21:16.07 | {abo} | oups |
| 21:16.13 | alterego | bstock, any day now. |
| 21:16.13 | daniels | alterego: that wouldn't help a bit. |
| 21:16.14 | timeless | {abo} the n95 has a smaller screen |
| 21:16.25 | daniels | {abo}: yes, omap 2420, but otherwise very similar hw |
| 21:16.28 | alterego | Would if you used them :P |
| 21:16.42 | daniels | lacking a couple of chips we have, and then they obviously have the gsm/umts radio too |
| 21:16.44 | daniels | alterego: actually, no, it wouldn't |
| 21:16.46 | {abo} | (Darn VNC and key repeats) |
| 21:16.52 | daniels | alterego: the issue is all to do with latency and roundtrips |
| 21:17.10 | daniels | alterego: you'll notice if you look closely at the ipod touch that they just blit a saved image of what it probably looks like, then re-render it later |
| 21:17.11 | alterego | It's look prettier .. |
| 21:17.19 | timeless | http://forum.brighthand.com/showthread.php?t=237218 |
| 21:17.27 | alterego | It'd look prettier .. |
| 21:17.33 | *** join/#maemo skiburr (n=chatzill@12.197.204.137) |
| 21:17.44 | daniels | we don't do any of that, plus both gtk and our apps insist on doing some very, very dumb things. i'm working to get that one fixed for the next major os revision, but it's a massive set of changes, so don't hold your breath. |
| 21:17.49 | *** join/#maemo lardman (n=simon@89.241.235.55) |
| 21:17.56 | daniels | alterego: yes, it'd look very pretty with the same (or worse) latency. |
| 21:18.05 | alterego | So, hypothetically, if we had the PowerVR core working. Would we be able to get fullscreen OGL rendering? |
| 21:18.06 | skiburr | what is a good case for a N800? |
| 21:18.13 | daniels | (or possibly look like crap, but look like crap with projective transforms.) |
| 21:18.15 | daniels | alterego: yes |
| 21:18.33 | alterego | Would that help Cairo? |
| 21:18.41 | timeless | opengl is 3d |
| 21:18.43 | timeless | cairo is 2d |
| 21:18.50 | alterego | cairo can use OpenGL |
| 21:18.54 | alterego | OpenGL is also 2D |
| 21:18.54 | _Monkey | okay, alterego. |
| 21:19.05 | alterego | It is a graphics library. |
| 21:19.11 | alterego | For 2D and 3D graphics. |
| 21:19.12 | daniels | timeless: you can use the hw to accelerate cairo though |
| 21:19.26 | timeless | daniels: that'd be nice |
| 21:19.32 | daniels | especially given that most opengl (es) hardware also supports openvg these days, which maps on top of cairo |
| 21:19.34 | timeless | can you accelerate it this year, please? |
| 21:19.36 | milhouse | _monkey forget opengl |
| 21:19.36 | _Monkey | milhouse: I forgot opengl |
| 21:19.42 | pupnik | daniels: can you give us any hints of powervr support, or possible way for community to integrate it? |
| 21:19.42 | alterego | Cool. |
| 21:19.49 | daniels | timeless: it won't make a difference for the browser's font rendering though :P |
| 21:19.52 | milhouse | Skiburr - the official Nokia case is a good case for the N800 |
| 21:20.05 | skiburr | the one that comes with it? |
| 21:20.05 | milhouse | Skiburr - plenty of pictures on the ITT forum |
| 21:20.05 | _Monkey | i guess the one that comes with it is 6, there is no upgrade |
| 21:20.10 | alterego | I don't like tan leather .. |
| 21:20.14 | alterego | Not on cases .. |
| 21:20.16 | *** join/#maemo pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0EE14.access.telenet.be) |
| 21:20.17 | timeless | _monkey forget the one that comes with it |
| 21:20.18 | daniels | pupnik: that one's firmly in 'no comment' territory, sorry |
| 21:20.19 | _Monkey | timeless: I forgot one that comes with it |
| 21:20.21 | timeless | _monkey the one that comes with it is <reply> |
| 21:20.22 | _Monkey | OK, timeless. |
| 21:20.24 | timeless | ... |
| 21:20.29 | skiburr | hum... |
| 21:20.40 | milhouse | Skiburr - no, it's an accessory (have a look in tableteer it's got a direct link to buy, although the link is not working for English speaking countries such as the US and UK) |
| 21:20.42 | skiburr | I was looking at some leather ones, but I'm not sure |
| 21:20.44 | daniels | pupnik: but, safe to say we aren't exactly ignoring opengl |
| 21:20.56 | skiburr | o ok |
| 21:20.57 | lardman | Just to recap, PowerVR support is planned by Nokia? |
| 21:21.01 | alterego | The PowerVR core vendor's site had a glitch asking me if I wanted to be notified of N800 support .. |
| 21:21.02 | pc_speaker1849 | ARMv6KZ ARM1176JZ(F)-S SIMD, Jazelle DBX, (VFP) variable, MMU+TrustZone Apple iPhone, Conexant CX2427X, Motorola RIZR Z8 |
| 21:21.08 | pc_speaker1849 | Iphone cpu... |
| 21:21.15 | skiburr | thanks milhouse |
| 21:21.15 | timeless | lardman: i don't think you can get "planned" from people here |
| 21:21.23 | skiburr | thanks guys/gals |
| 21:21.24 | timeless | either it's in an official roadmap announcement |
| 21:21.29 | pupnik | ok i hope that definitive no-comment helps #maemo stop whining and wondering. |
| 21:21.29 | timeless | or we couldn't say |
| 21:21.34 | alterego | Either they're talking about a different N800 or .. |
| 21:21.46 | shackan | daniels: are binary powerVR drivers available anywhere "for free" (any platform would do) ? |
| 21:21.50 | *** join/#maemo blassey (n=chatzill@mozca02.ca.mozilla.com) |
| 21:21.55 | pupnik | yes TI has some shackan |
| 21:21.58 | timeless | hi blassey |
| 21:21.59 | alterego | shackan, yes. But not for the ABI we use. |
| 21:22.02 | lardman | shackan: they are available, but not with source |
| 21:22.25 | alterego | There was a rumour only for 2.4 kernels. Though I'm sure I saw 2.6 when I looked. |
| 21:22.26 | *** join/#maemo zodman (n=zodman@189.151.54.194) |
| 21:22.38 | daniels | shackan: i don't believe the kernel module they use works with our kernels. iirc pepperpad was 2.6.14 or something. |
| 21:23.11 | lardman | alterego: I have 2.6.12 (iirc) in front of me |
| 21:23.23 | blassey | hi timeless |
| 21:23.27 | alterego | lardman, like I said. I was sure there was support for 2.6 ;) |
| 21:23.45 | alterego | Someone told me they only supported 2.4 but I was sure I saw 2.6 and couldn't bother looking :P |
| 21:23.51 | shackan | daniels: yes, I just want to take a look at a binary, for whichever platform it is |
| 21:24.02 | timeless | shackan: check the license |
| 21:24.03 | daniels | the pepperpad ships with it; can't remember theothers |
| 21:24.06 | timeless | that may or may not be allowed :) |
| 21:24.15 | lardman | it's on the Ti site, I'll find you a link |
| 21:24.52 | pupnik | lardman - any news on the dsp kernel crashes and the <=1MB shared memory problem? |
| 21:24.54 | lardman | OMAPSW_GFX_2430__L16.4_SDK.zip |
| 21:24.54 | timeless | ok, wow |
| 21:24.59 | timeless | nokiausa.com is really confused |
| 21:25.03 | alterego | If I try and mate my N800 and N810 will I get an N95 ? |
| 21:25.07 | timeless | it doesn't know anything about the n810 |
| 21:25.35 | lardman | pupnik: I've not had time to debug, but I've heard from a chap on dspgateway-devel who was able to map 7MB on one of the boards, so it may be possible still |
| 21:25.43 | daniels | lardman: note that the 2430 and 2420 are subtly different |
| 21:25.51 | daniels | timeless: cmo |
| 21:25.57 | timeless | cmo? |
| 21:26.02 | *** join/#maemo dshep (n=user@ext-gw.dev.sf.yav4.com) |
| 21:26.09 | pupnik | can you use 2 512kB buffers and just 'page flip' between them? |
| 21:26.10 | daniels | i think nokia.com is common market operations, and nseries.com is multimedia |
| 21:26.15 | lardman | daniels: yes I'd thought that, the Ti site no longer has a 2420 download and points to the 2430 version |
| 21:26.21 | *** join/#maemo tank17 (i=tank17@gateway/tor/x-7b5df9d0ca39cf00) |
| 21:26.31 | alterego | O_o |
| 21:26.34 | alterego | That sucks. |
| 21:26.37 | lardman | pupnik: You can only map one section of memory, it's the total size that is the issue |
| 21:26.44 | timeless | daniels: but who would you yell at? |
| 21:26.54 | alterego | The 6110 looks sweet but what would I do with two GPS devices? |
| 21:27.09 | timeless | alterego: i picked up a bluetooth gps device |
| 21:27.16 | daniels | timeless: i wouldn't bother, if it were me |
| 21:27.19 | timeless | if i could remove the n810's, i would :) |
| 21:27.21 | pupnik | maybe we could all go outside and do a 'rain dance' to bring the openGL support |
| 21:27.23 | alterego | I suppose I'm less likely to get mugged holding a phone as opposed to the tablet, |
| 21:27.24 | daniels | timeless: but i don't know actual names, anyway |
| 21:27.26 | *** join/#maemo p| (n=pi@62.13.168.67) |
| 21:27.30 | daniels | pupnik: too late, it's already snowing |
| 21:27.37 | timeless | is it snowing? |
| 21:27.40 | lardman | daniels: you wouldn't bother because it's in hand? |
| 21:27.58 | alterego | pupnik, I reckon it will happen. Even if it's not for another 3-4 months. |
| 21:28.14 | alterego | Just be patient and continue your work like the rest of us :) |
| 21:28.18 | alterego | Karma and all that ;) |
| 21:28.27 | daniels | dude, it's been snowing _all day_. there was snow on the ground (visible from the 6th floor) when i woke up, i got blatted with icy chunks on the way to work, and the footpaths were mildly iced over when i was walking to work. |
| 21:28.38 | timeless | it was hailing when i came to work |
| 21:28.41 | timeless | no snow, just hail |
| 21:28.44 | timeless | and i haven't been out since |
| 21:29.14 | timeless | hrm, it wasn't iced along my path |
| 21:29.31 | timeless | perhaps the bridge to the falafel place is a bad idea |
| 21:29.39 | _|Nix|_ | I think it let up a bit towards evening. |
| 21:29.54 | penguinbait | where r u that its snowing? |
| 21:30.01 | timeless | helsinki |
| 21:30.10 | timeless | as are daniels and _|nix|_ |
| 21:30.16 | penguinbait | ah |
| 21:30.17 | _|Nix|_ | I went to Meri Tähti around 20:15 and it was more crunchy than icy. |
| 21:30.22 | alterego | I'll have to come and visit you in the new year timeless :) |
| 21:30.28 | alterego | What's the coffee like in Helsinki? |
| 21:30.35 | suihkulokki | hehe |
| 21:30.46 | timeless | _|nix|_: got a url for that? whic is it? |
| 21:30.54 | _|Nix|_ | timeless: For what? |
| 21:30.57 | daniels | timeless: hm, i guess it's a fine line between snow and hail. but the ground was covered in fine white powder, and white chunks were coming out of the sky. too small to be hail imo, but eh. |
| 21:30.58 | timeless | Meri TC$hti |
| 21:31.07 | daniels | (australians aren't exactly authorities on snow.) |
| 21:31.12 | timeless | heh |
| 21:31.21 | timeless | i worked on a product called Hailstorm |
| 21:31.26 | _|Nix|_ | timeless: What?! You dunno where Meri Tähti is?! |
| 21:31.29 | alterego | You're Aussie? |
| 21:31.37 | timeless | we got hail once while we worked there, (golf ball sized iirc) |
| 21:31.44 | _|Nix|_ | LOL :o) |
| 21:31.48 | alterego | That's not fun |
| 21:31.50 | _|Nix|_ | This was /not/ hail. |
| 21:31.55 | alterego | Happened to me when I went windsurfing |
| 21:32.05 | timeless | _|nix|_: dunno, i'm terrible w/ names |
| 21:32.06 | timeless | which is it? |
| 21:32.19 | alterego | I had blood dripping down my face after that. Had to use my board as a f*ing shield. |
| 21:32.22 | _|Nix|_ | timeless: Next to the subway station. |
| 21:32.30 | suihkulokki | meritahti.net =) |
| 21:32.46 | daniels | alterego: yeah |
| 21:32.50 | _|Nix|_ | suihkulokki: No way ... |
| 21:32.51 | daniels | timeless: hailstorm is the bane of my life |
| 21:32.54 | alterego | I now don't windsurf very much when it's cold O_O |
| 21:33.15 | _|Nix|_ | OMG ... I can't believe it ... that /is/ their site ... |
| 21:33.17 | suihkulokki | _|Nix|_: ? |
| 21:33.23 | timeless | suihkulokki: thanks, but does it speak English? |
| 21:33.32 | _|Nix|_ | suihkulokki: ... that they should have a site called meritahti.net :o) |
| 21:33.33 | shackan | daniels: how legal would it be to take register addresses and other 'magic values' from such a binary? |
| 21:33.37 | shackan | lardman: thanks |
| 21:33.41 | shackan | alterego: you get a helluwa screen, but still can't make phone calls (which is a friggin' shame) |
| 21:34.03 | alterego | shackan, ? |
| 21:34.08 | suihkulokki | timeless: nope =) lounaslista = lunch menu |
| 21:34.09 | _|Nix|_ | timeless: It says "copyright © 2007 int2000 & entertum" |
| 21:34.18 | _|Nix|_ | timeless: That's English ... |
| 21:34.32 | timeless | correct legaleese... |
| 21:34.39 | timeless | i suppose that's better English than i'm used to here... |
| 21:35.02 | _|Nix|_ | I dunno ... I've heard quite good English while here ... |
| 21:35.03 | alterego | I'm English what's "entertum"? |
| 21:35.07 | shackan | alterego: yes? |
| 21:35.17 | _|Nix|_ | alterego: A proper noun, I expect. |
| 21:35.20 | timeless | a person equivalent |
| 21:35.20 | suihkulokki | _|Nix|_: I've used the page for years to know if it's the day to go there =) |
| 21:35.28 | alterego | shackan, Just wondered what you were talking to me about :) |
| 21:35.28 | timeless | http://www.int2000.net/ http://www.entertum.com/ |
| 21:35.32 | daniels | shackan: i can't even pretend to give you advice on such issues, and even if i could, it would be staggeringly unwise to do so |
| 21:35.35 | shackan | alterego: eh? |
| 21:35.36 | shackan | daniels: how different is the 2430 from the 2420 ? |
| 21:35.39 | alterego | Oh |
| 21:35.40 | _|Nix|_ | suihkulokki: What makes it the day to go there ... for you? |
| 21:35.47 | alterego | My N800/N810 baby ^_^ |
| 21:35.48 | alterego | Hahah |
| 21:35.55 | alterego | I have a cool idea. |
| 21:36.00 | daniels | shackan: i don't think they're wildly different, just a few different clocks etc, plus a different dsp |
| 21:36.02 | alterego | For a HW project I think I'll start soon. |
| 21:36.08 | lardman | Any Python gurus here? What's pycentral? |
| 21:36.23 | suihkulokki | _|Nix|_: the intersect of what's on the lunch menu and what a crave for that day :) |
| 21:36.24 | lardman | daniels: do you know the structure of the IVA? |
| 21:36.28 | alterego | BT controlled toy helicopter |
| 21:36.42 | _|Nix|_ | suihkulokki: Aaaah ... *nod* ... |
| 21:36.51 | shackan | alterego: when on earth did I say entertum ? |
| 21:36.56 | daniels | lardman: it's basically just a dsp |
| 21:37.06 | suihkulokki | _|Nix|_: you'r a regular too ? |
| 21:37.13 | daniels | lardman: iirc it looks very similar to the c55x |
| 21:37.21 | timeless | could you guys take me the next time you go? |
| 21:37.24 | lardman | daniels: there's no info about it available. I imagine the omap technical reference manual is the thing to look at |
| 21:37.31 | timeless | just send me an sms if you can't walk the extra wings |
| 21:37.46 | lardman | daniels: but with different hardware accelerations? |
| 21:38.06 | daniels | shit, looks like today was a good meritähti lunch day. wednesday and thursday look good too. nice. |
| 21:38.17 | alterego | This conversation is obiously confusing everyone .. |
| 21:38.19 | daniels | lardman: yeah, pretty much. |
| 21:38.20 | suihkulokki | according to rumours iva1 is arm7 + special multimedia thingis, while iva2 is new version c55x dsp with multimedia thingys |
| 21:38.24 | alterego | conversations .. |
| 21:38.33 | lardman | suihkulokki: interesting |
| 21:38.40 | timeless | seriously, please take me |
| 21:38.51 | lardman | strange there's lots of info for the c55, but little/none for the IVA |
| 21:39.04 | daniels | otoh, it looks like tomorrow is the only worthwhile day for eating at the work cafeteria. |
| 21:39.12 | alterego | Pfft, that's a bad product name actually .. |
| 21:39.13 | timeless | alterego: nokia numbering convention doesn't make sense |
| 21:39.16 | timeless | don't even bother |
| 21:39.20 | daniels | cabbage rolls stuffed with mushrooms |
| 21:39.22 | alterego | timeless, I know :) |
| 21:39.40 | daniels | suihkulokki: that's more or less my recollection, yeah. |
| 21:39.51 | alterego | The N series has opened up a whole new range of numbers to play with though :) |
| 21:39.56 | alterego | The NX |
| 21:40.04 | alterego | Very start trek .. |
| 21:40.09 | timeless | personally i prefer n00 |
| 21:40.17 | alterego | 00N here |
| 21:40.24 | suihkulokki | n360 =) |
| 21:40.30 | alterego | Heh |
| 21:40.33 | alterego | Nii |
| 21:40.39 | Cord | yuk! |
| 21:40.40 | alterego | Thats roman for N2 by the way .. |
| 21:41.00 | alterego | NT |
| 21:41.03 | alterego | or NiT |
| 21:41.08 | timeless | _|nix|_: so... i want to get my phone to speak English |
| 21:41.14 | timeless | any idea how to get a proper flash? :) |
| 21:41.15 | alterego | Interesting .. NIT .. I never saw that before. |
| 21:41.25 | penguinbait | nit is headlice eggs |
| 21:41.38 | alterego | (N)okia (I)nternet (T)ablet |
| 21:41.41 | daniels | timeless: it doesn't already? |
| 21:41.51 | timeless | no, it speaks British High English |
| 21:41.52 | penguinbait | still looks like lice eggs to me |
| 21:41.57 | daniels | timeless: success! |
| 21:42.06 | alterego | penguinbait, that's what I was trying to say ;) |
| 21:42.17 | penguinbait | oh, well then |
| 21:42.19 | daniels | you can't blame your phone for knowing how to spell colour. |
| 21:42.19 | penguinbait | I agree |
| 21:42.21 | penguinbait | :) |
| 21:42.27 | sp3000 | N00ooo! |
| 21:42.28 | alterego | Colour! |
| 21:42.31 | timeless | just watch me! |
| 21:42.34 | penguinbait | color |
| 21:42.38 | alterego | I even use Colour in my programs. |
| 21:42.45 | alterego | Dumbass yanks .. |
| 21:42.59 | alterego | No offence to any Americans here :) |
| 21:43.04 | Cord | my shell isn't colo(u)red |
| 21:43.06 | penguinbait | none taken |
| 21:43.10 | lardman | timeless: when you say English, what you mean is American I assume? |
| 21:43.16 | alterego | Hah |
| 21:43.17 | timeless | yes |
| 21:43.24 | lardman | I speak English, I am English |
| 21:43.31 | penguinbait | is there another type of english |
| 21:43.33 | *** join/#maemo pdz (n=paul@135.14.169.217.in-addr.arpa) |
| 21:43.33 | penguinbait | heh |
| 21:43.37 | daniels | i speak english, i am _not_ english. |
| 21:43.37 | alterego | pfft :P |
| 21:43.42 | czr | lardman, do you write programs or programmes? |
| 21:43.49 | penguinbait | how about spanglish? |
| 21:43.49 | alterego | I speak English, I don't know what I am ^_^ |
| 21:44.00 | alterego | I am a Rubyist. |
| 21:44.04 | alterego | I come from Ruby |
| 21:44.13 | czr | alterego, you're the person who promised me that I could do a single click install of the task manager :-) |
| 21:44.17 | lardman | czr: 'tis a good question, programs, but I watch programmes on TV |
| 21:44.25 | penguinbait | I am Bush hater |
| 21:44.31 | penguinbait | but not bush hater |
| 21:44.35 | penguinbait | i dont knwo |
| 21:44.36 | czr | lardman, yup. I seem to remeber that the official work for both was programmes many years ago |
| 21:44.46 | czr | but I think people have given up on the computer-related version by now |
| 21:44.46 | alterego | czr, I'll stick them in extras-devel when I get the time :P |
| 21:45.03 | lardman | czr: yes, but one sees program so much nowadays it's sort of caught on |
| 21:45.05 | alterego | czr, check out pimlico-project.org |
| 21:45.08 | alterego | It's very promising. |
| 21:45.19 | alterego | The Task manager isn't as good as mine though. |
| 21:45.26 | alterego | Very minimalistic. |
| 21:45.28 | czr | lardman, yup. I think it will slowly happen to colour as well |
| 21:45.54 | alterego | I admit .. I use program |
| 21:46.01 | czr | alterego, does pimlico work? |
| 21:46.05 | *** part/#maemo richieeee72 (n=richard@82-69-62-183.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 21:46.06 | czr | i.e., where can I install from? |
| 21:46.08 | daniels | (en_AU does differ in a couple of places, and one of those is universal use of program. i still say stuff like analogue, though.) |
| 21:46.14 | *** join/#maemo lardman_ (n=lardman@enpc-smm11.bath.ac.uk) |
| 21:46.15 | shackan | daniels: of course I understand, but mmm, I said just how different they are :) |
| 21:46.15 | shackan | anyway.. |
| 21:46.15 | shackan | daniels, have you learned finnish yet? :D |
| 21:46.22 | shackan | alterego: especially those with a stuttering wireless connection |
| 21:46.24 | alterego | czr, sure. They have OS2007 one-click-install on their sites for Task and Calendar |
| 21:46.25 | daniels | shackan: getting there ... ish. |
| 21:46.26 | shackan | suihkulokki: what are those? |
| 21:46.26 | _Monkey | those are /dev/rfcomm, maybe? |
| 21:46.34 | lardman | czr: pehaps in computer code, but the U will never go, it's mainly a case of annoyance |
| 21:46.51 | alterego | I do use Programmer though and Programming .. |
| 21:46.59 | czr | lardman, it will go eventually. will take many many years :-) |
| 21:47.14 | alterego | I've seen quite a few people use Programing .. Which just looks .. Wrong .. |
| 21:47.15 | lardman | when we're annexed as the 51st state and all that :) |
| 21:47.31 | shackan | daniels: sorry my connection sucks dog nuts tonight, there.. where? |
| 21:47.35 | czr | lardman, that depends on whether you behave or not :-) |
| 21:47.50 | czr | lardman, plural you. not singular :-) |
| 21:47.51 | daniels | shackan: getting there -> learning finnish. |
| 21:48.06 | shackan | daniels: oh, I see :D |
| 21:48.10 | lardman | czr: lol, future of the UK hanging on my next few words :) |
| 21:48.21 | czr | lardman, it would be a terrible power, wouldn't it. |
| 21:48.49 | tigert | daniels: yksi olut? |
| 21:49.02 | tigert | daniels: should we talk finnish to you? |
| 21:49.04 | lardman | but would be great :) |
| 21:49.24 | *** join/#maemo richieeee72 (n=richard@82-69-62-183.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 21:49.38 | *** join/#maemo niteOwl (n=jeff@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com) |
| 21:49.44 | *** part/#maemo richieeee72 (n=richard@82-69-62-183.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 21:49.52 | alterego | Meh, I'd like to be properly part of the EU to be honest. |
| 21:50.16 | alterego | Holy Moley |
| 21:50.20 | alterego | The Eee has been released. |
| 21:50.35 | alterego | I wonder how that'd run scratchbox .. |
| 21:50.53 | penguinbait | how much for an Eee |
| 21:51.05 | shackan | anyway, nokia people, any future plans to integrate android somehow ? |
| 21:51.18 | alterego | £220 |
| 21:51.19 | daniels | tigert: ei olutta :\ |
| 21:51.33 | daniels | tigert: not feeling very well at all |
| 21:51.36 | alterego | Why would maemo intergrate android? |
| 21:51.43 | daniels | hence why i'm chating shit on #maemo, instead of hacking on x |
| 21:51.45 | *** join/#maemo lardman (n=lardman@enpc-smm11.bath.ac.uk) |
| 21:52.14 | doublec | they came just out in NZ too. $599. |
| 21:52.16 | czr | alterego, you a nokie people now? :-) |
| 21:52.20 | czr | nokia even. |
| 21:52.23 | tigert | daniels: flu? |
| 21:52.26 | czr | damn wannabe :-) |
| 21:52.42 | penguinbait | I like the Nokie |
| 21:52.45 | tigert | android hada nice sdk |
| 21:52.51 | tigert | with emulator etc |
| 21:52.54 | tigert | all java it seems |
| 21:52.55 | penguinbait | Nokie is hokey |
| 21:52.56 | alterego | czr, I wish :P |
| 21:53.02 | timeless | shackan: i'm pretty sure nokians can't comment at all about that |
| 21:53.10 | timeless | i think there's even an official no comment statement |
| 21:53.25 | shackan | timeless: oh, wow |
| 21:53.35 | czr | android is in direct competition with maemo though. and S60 for that matter. |
| 21:53.43 | timeless | --- chinook/release/clinkc-2.0/include/cybergarage/upnp/event/csubscriber.h |
| 21:53.46 | czr | (IMHO obviously) |
| 21:53.48 | tigert | timeless: I heard of no official statements really |
| 21:53.50 | timeless | +++ chinook-20071107/release/clinkc-2.0/include/cybergarage/upnp/event/csubscrib |
| 21:53.51 | timeless | er.h |
| 21:53.52 | shackan | <rant> god damn, is there anything you're allowed to talk about? </rant> :) |
| 21:54.03 | tigert | lets see how open android is, and how the toolkit is |
| 21:54.04 | czr | shackan, they're allowed to talk finnish :-) |
| 21:54.05 | timeless | shackan: we can talk about the n810 |
| 21:54.08 | timeless | since it shipped |
| 21:54.08 | alterego | czr, I'd say S60 definitely. |
| 21:54.11 | alterego | Not sure about Maemo. |
| 21:54.14 | timeless | -* This is licensed under BSD-style license, |
| 21:54.14 | timeless | +* This is licensed under BSD-style license with patent exclusion, |
| 21:54.18 | czr | alterego, I think both. |
| 21:54.21 | shackan | yeah |
| 21:54.30 | timeless | how can clinkc have changed its content w/o changing its version number? |
| 21:54.41 | alterego | czr, it's also in direct competition with ARM's endeavour into the mobile Linux OS market. |
| 21:54.53 | tigert | shackan: I dont know of any official statements about android |
| 21:54.56 | czr | alterego, what's that? |
| 21:55.09 | alterego | czr, something I heard about the other day. |
| 21:55.18 | tigert | why should there be any? if it is open source, all the better |
| 21:55.18 | alterego | Maemo are launching their own Mobile Linux platform. |
| 21:55.22 | timeless | maybe unofficially we don't comment? |
| 21:55.27 | tigert | timeless: dunno |
| 21:55.28 | timeless | same difference |
| 21:55.28 | pc_speaker1849 | Google Androind sounds kinda scary :) |
| 21:55.31 | czr | "giving developers the ability to start writing software for phones due to start shipping in 2008 and $10 million in prizes to lure them." |
| 21:55.41 | czr | why didn't maemo give 10 MUSD in prizes? ;-) |
| 21:55.42 | tigert | timeless: maybe some people run around scared again? :) |
| 21:55.43 | daniels | tigert: yeah, i think something flu-ish. the usual cold symptoms, plus can't think properly or focus. |
| 21:56.02 | alterego | czr, what's that? |
| 21:56.09 | alterego | 10M USD for what?! |
| 21:56.17 | czr | alterego, for writing apps for android |
| 21:56.28 | shackan | alterego: it's lots of money |
| 21:56.31 | alterego | Christ. |
| 21:56.33 | czr | that too :-) |
| 21:56.35 | shackan | alterego: for software |
| 21:56.48 | daniels | tigert: which means we have to sit down over coffee instead of beer to plan the x.org logo. ;) |
| 21:56.48 | czr | see. I told you. competition. |
| 21:56.58 | tigert | daniels: eek :) |
| 21:56.59 | alterego | Wait .. |
| 21:57.05 | alterego | This could be their plan! |
| 21:57.05 | tigert | daniels: that damn logo turned out tough |
| 21:57.13 | tigert | I tried to look into it but it didnt go quickly |
| 21:57.15 | alterego | Is their SDK even out yet? |
| 21:57.26 | tigert | alterego: it is |
| 21:57.35 | czr | alterego, http://www.news.com/8301-13580_3-9815165-39.html |
| 21:57.43 | *** join/#maemo pdz- (n=paul@135.14.169.217.in-addr.arpa) |
| 21:57.45 | timeless | i need a tool to find symlinks to . and similar things |
| 21:57.48 | shackan | alterego: it is, just got it |
| 21:57.49 | timeless | anyone have suggestions? |
| 21:58.02 | daniels | tigert: yeah, no rush :) i don't really have any ideas tbh |
| 21:58.04 | shackan | alterego: emulator, eclipse integration etc etc etc |
| 21:58.16 | alterego | :/ |
| 21:58.26 | czr | timeless, combination of find -type l and readlink? |
| 21:58.26 | alterego | I really don't give 2x sh*t about eclipse. |
| 21:58.28 | tigert | daniels: yeah |
| 21:59.10 | alterego | I think that 10M USD is split between all developers that do something cool I'd imagine. |
| 21:59.23 | timeless | google could do it either way |
| 21:59.27 | timeless | it wouldn't hurt their bottom line |
| 21:59.32 | shackan | alterego: I seriously hope so |
| 21:59.35 | czr | alterego, "$10 million total in prizes, each ranging from $25,000 to $275,000, to programmers picked by a panel of judges. " |
| 21:59.47 | *** join/#maemo blassey (n=chatzill@mozca02.ca.mozilla.com) |
| 21:59.48 | alterego | Wow |
| 21:59.56 | shackan | timeless: yeah, at this point they're just drowing in cash :D |
| 21:59.58 | alterego | I guess something like that you can't refuse. |
| 22:00.09 | czr | I think it was a seriously good decision from google |
| 22:00.18 | pc_speaker1849 | $275,000 to the first guy who manages to run doom :) |
| 22:00.49 | kaltsi | too late, there was a demo already running quake.. |
| 22:01.00 | czr | "The API used to access the 3D capabilities of the platform is the OpenGL ES API." |
| 22:01.02 | kaltsi | well ok not doom.. |
| 22:01.13 | db48x | czr: cool |
| 22:01.21 | czr | I think so too |
| 22:01.39 | czr | it's used for the GUI composition as well |
| 22:01.56 | pc_speaker | So mobile google earth possible :) |
| 22:02.12 | pc_speaker | And no problem with fancy 3d games... |
| 22:02.19 | czr | sure. there's an api for google map stuff as well |
| 22:02.26 | pc_speaker | BTW are there some 3d games for N800? |
| 22:02.29 | czr | pc_speaker, it will depend on the phone in question though |
| 22:02.32 | czr | pc_speaker, no |
| 22:02.34 | timeless | what's a 3d game? |
| 22:02.36 | tigert | pc_speaker: there are no 3d drivers |
| 22:02.42 | czr | or rather, yes, but not what you mean probably |
| 22:02.42 | pc_speaker | Besides quake :) |
| 22:02.46 | lardman|away | pc_speaker: there's doom & quake |
| 22:02.51 | tigert | and well, for gaming you want a psp |
| 22:03.05 | pc_speaker | I tryed PSP too... |
| 22:03.08 | timeless | input methods so far for nokia products are lacking |
| 22:03.12 | timeless | at least for gaming |
| 22:03.19 | czr | damn. even their sw stack graph looks much sexier than the ones in maemo ;-) |
| 22:03.30 | timeless | czr: url? |
| 22:03.39 | czr | timeless, http://code.google.com/android/images/system-architecture.png |
| 22:03.44 | pc_speaker | I'll try to run Wolfenstein 3D in the DosBox :))) |
| 22:03.57 | pc_speaker | And follout too... |
| 22:04.07 | tigert | czr: hey, nothing looks more sexy than the gnome mobile and embedded graph |
| 22:04.09 | tigert | !! |
| 22:04.10 | tigert | :) |
| 22:04.12 | pc_speaker | But I think fallout won't work well... |
| 22:04.20 | timeless | interesting |
| 22:04.27 | timeless | webkit is listed as a library |
| 22:04.35 | czr | tigert, well. it is also sexy. but I rather like the "information comes first" approach of the android one :-) |
| 22:04.46 | shackan | tigert: true! (you did it? :)) |
| 22:04.55 | tigert | shackan: :) |
| 22:05.05 | czr | timeless, the stock browser will be webkit |
| 22:05.22 | czr | timeless, I guess the idea is that you can either use a completely different one, or one that uses webkit |
| 22:05.29 | czr | maybe. /me shrugs |
| 22:05.29 | daniels | tigert: well, i'll grab you one day in the office, or i can have people rock around here for random shenanigans. i'll let you know when, but i guess not soon, given that you're probably tukholmalle, and i'm away this weekend (funnily enough, tukholmassa). |
| 22:05.29 | tigert | man, I need to go to a conference soon again |
| 22:05.31 | tigert | too long since |
| 22:05.42 | shackan | holy shit, do I read "binder (IPC) driver" ? |
| 22:05.50 | shackan | are they using openbinder?? |
| 22:05.57 | czr | shackan, what is it? |
| 22:05.58 | pc_speaker | Webkit is good for mobile devices since it has small footprint... |
| 22:05.59 | daniels | tigert: i assume tukholma{lle,ssa} can't possibly be right ... |
| 22:06.05 | tigert | daniels: yes, tukholmaan, mutta ei pois laivasta |
| 22:06.07 | pc_speaker | And where is the webkit for N800? |
| 22:06.09 | timeless | pc_speaker: *cough* |
| 22:06.20 | timeless | what do you know about web browsers? |
| 22:06.20 | daniels | tigert: ah, tukholmaan/tukholmas[st]a? |
| 22:06.20 | tigert | tukholmalle is wrong, tukholmaan is right |
| 22:06.22 | shackan | czr: a component based ipc system, cool stuff |
| 22:06.23 | timeless | what makes you an expert? |
| 22:06.26 | tigert | daniels: gotcha! |
| 22:06.26 | _Monkey | i think gotcha is you have to patch the system fonts |
| 22:06.27 | czr | shackan, url? |
| 22:06.35 | daniels | tigert: ah, noniin :) didn't know you could do -an as well |
| 22:06.36 | timeless | _monkey forget gotcha |
| 22:06.36 | _Monkey | timeless: I forgot gotcha |
| 22:06.37 | czr | and why is it part of the kernel? :-) |
| 22:06.43 | timeless | _monkey gotcha is <reply> |
| 22:06.44 | _Monkey | OK, timeless. |
| 22:06.53 | daniels | tigert: only -in, e.g. hki:in |
| 22:07.08 | pc_speaker | http://www.habrahabr.ru/pictures/00/00/00/08/80/picture_3.png |
| 22:07.35 | czr | timeless, "LibWebCore - a modern web browser engine which powers both the Android browser and an embeddable web view" |
| 22:07.37 | tigert | daniels: dont ask me about finnish grammar |
| 22:07.43 | {abo} | Curious, what's tukholmaan? |
| 22:07.43 | tigert | daniels: it is insane |
| 22:07.47 | tigert | daniels: I just don't know |
| 22:07.55 | tigert | I just know how things are but I have no idea why |
| 22:07.56 | czr | abo, "into/to stockholm" |
| 22:07.57 | tigert | :/ |
| 22:08.00 | timeless | czr: the system-architecture graph is sufficient |
| 22:08.05 | {abo} | Thought so :) |
| 22:08.14 | shackan | timeless: I know shit about browsers too, but Alp Toker told me the other day webkit used one third of the memory of firefox in some tests (by kde people) |
| 22:08.16 | czr | timeless, yup |
| 22:08.27 | timeless | shackan: that's nice |
| 22:08.27 | skiburr | anybody here like angle drawings? |
| 22:08.31 | timeless | kinda useless |
| 22:08.39 | timeless | there are many possible tests |
| 22:08.48 | timeless | i'm sure i could show you tests for just about anything |
| 22:08.59 | skiburr | angel |
| 22:09.00 | skiburr | sorry |
| 22:09.13 | db48x | angles are nice |
| 22:09.30 | shackan | timeless: well, that, and the fact that I have to kill firefox a couple of times a day to free some memory :) |
| 22:09.40 | timeless | ... |
| 22:09.44 | timeless | that makes you an expert? |
| 22:09.45 | daniels | tigert: yeah, native speakers usually only have a tenuous grasp of their own grammar, but for a huge table of special cases |
| 22:09.46 | {abo} | Buffy was cool too :) |
| 22:09.52 | *** join/#maemo kenne (n=kenneth@200.184.118.132) |
| 22:09.53 | skiburr | I have a drawing that I could never find on the net anymore |
| 22:09.54 | skiburr | :( |
| 22:10.12 | shackan | timeless: <shackan> timeless: I know shit about browsers too |
| 22:10.14 | shackan | see ? |
| 22:10.15 | _Monkey | i think see is only really good at interfacing with hardware. |
| 22:10.21 | timeless | _monkey forget see |
| 22:10.21 | _Monkey | timeless: I forgot see |
| 22:10.27 | timeless | _monkey see is <reply> |
| 22:10.27 | _Monkey | OK, timeless. |
| 22:10.42 | alterego | If I was going to do something with android .. |
| 22:10.49 | alterego | I'd not use Java. |
| 22:10.53 | alterego | I'd port Ruby ^_^ |
| 22:10.56 | shackan | not saying I'm an expert or anything |
| 22:10.58 | db48x | yea, java is boring |
| 22:11.05 | czr | alterego, I think you can |
| 22:11.12 | czr | the primary SDK is for java though |
| 22:11.14 | shackan | alterego: except many ARM cpus can execute java bytecode natively |
| 22:11.17 | czr | the base libs are in C though. |
| 22:11.23 | timeless | maemo: including the n800's |
| 22:11.27 | timeless | too bad there's no binding for it |
| 22:11.32 | shackan | right |
| 22:11.35 | pc_speaker | "CTO Jean-Charles Verdie was kind enough to answer my email and highlighted a number of reasons why they went for the Webkit engine rather than Mozilla engine. |
| 22:11.36 | pc_speaker | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:11.36 | pc_speaker | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:11.36 | pc_speaker | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:11.36 | pc_speaker | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:11.37 | pc_speaker | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:11.39 | alterego | shackan, that's good. I can compile ruby into JVM bytecode :P |
| 22:11.43 | shackan | not, yet :) |
| 22:11.44 | pc_speaker | Sorry for long message :) |
| 22:11.58 | shackan | pc_speaker: argh! |
| 22:12.07 | czr | alterego, the bytecode is slightly non-standard on the android I think |
| 22:12.25 | {abo} | So, what's the wordon Maemo/Android synthesis? |
| 22:12.27 | czr | or maybe I misunderstood something. just causally browsing through the docs |
| 22:12.29 | tigert | daniels: ye |
| 22:12.31 | tigert | ah |
| 22:12.40 | czr | abo, you mean Maeroid? |
| 22:12.41 | alterego | czr, yeah someone was saying that earlier .. Was that you? ^_^ |
| 22:12.53 | czr | alterego, I'm not confessing to anything :-) |
| 22:12.58 | {abo} | czr: Oh, there's a name for it even? :) |
| 22:13.05 | czr | abo, there could be ;-) |
| 22:13.06 | alterego | What has Maemo got to do with Android? |
| 22:13.12 | czr | abo, I have no idea. |
| 22:13.17 | alterego | Why do people keep asking about some crappy hybrid? |
| 22:13.30 | czr | Maeroid just sounded like a sufficiently bad name for a project like that. |
| 22:13.34 | alterego | Want a crappy hybrid? DO IT! ^_^ |
| 22:13.42 | alterego | Haemoriod |
| 22:13.49 | czr | yes |
| 22:13.54 | czr | that was the inspiration for it. |
| 22:13.57 | shackan | tigert: is it possible to have the os2008 theme without waiting until december? (when os2008 comes out) |
| 22:13.57 | {abo} | alterego: If you have a device that rund one, you could easily get the idea that it might be useful to be able to run the apps for the other one. |
| 22:14.03 | *** join/#maemo Nermal (n=peter@host81-154-16-75.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) |
| 22:14.15 | alterego | {abo}, do it |
| 22:14.25 | timeless | not worth effort |
| 22:14.39 | {abo} | alterego: Sure. :) |
| 22:15.13 | alterego | Why not just program in Ruby and it'll run on both devices. |
| 22:15.21 | pc_speaker | http://www.sand-labs.org/owb/wiki/OwbN800 -- anyone tryed this? |
| 22:15.21 | czr | ah. transparency is one of the elements I see: http://code.google.com/android/reference/view-gallery.html |
| 22:15.22 | alterego | You just need to make custom UI and interface with the system. |
| 22:15.31 | timeless | pc_speaker: fwiw, gecko supports acid2 |
| 22:15.42 | timeless | so people making posts about acid2 are usually clueless |
| 22:15.45 | tigert | shackan: the theme wont work with current os :( |
| 22:15.55 | pc_speaker | Latest builds of gecko you mean? |
| 22:16.00 | tigert | shackan: since it relies a lot on the transparency stuff etc that will be in 2008 |
| 22:16.08 | tigert | though you can get that stuff from sardine already |
| 22:16.10 | timeless | gecko is gecko |
| 22:16.17 | timeless | i'm not talking about a 2 or 3 year old gecko |
| 22:16.18 | pc_speaker | Because my current firefox 2.0.0.9 broke the acid2 test... |
| 22:16.20 | timeless | what's the point? |
| 22:16.21 | _Monkey | the point is to make the user happy |
| 22:16.25 | tigert | but unfortunately the theme is not free, as it is official product theme |
| 22:16.31 | timeless | most people don't talk about 2 or 3 year old webkits |
| 22:16.36 | timeless | _monkey forget point |
| 22:16.36 | _Monkey | timeless: I forgot point |
| 22:16.40 | timeless | _monkey forget the point |
| 22:16.40 | _Monkey | timeless, I didn't have anything matching point |
| 22:16.49 | timeless | _monkey point is <reply> |
| 22:16.49 | _Monkey | OK, timeless. |
| 22:16.55 | tigert | shackan: but I might have time for an update for plankton at some point |
| 22:17.02 | tigert | to do the transparency stuff |
| 22:17.06 | Solarion | tigert! |
| 22:17.06 | _Monkey | tigert is totally confused :-) |
| 22:17.09 | db48x | timeless: out of curiosity, why the <reply> bit? |
| 22:17.13 | tigert | maybe I am :) |
| 22:17.16 | timeless | _monkey forget tigert |
| 22:17.16 | _Monkey | timeless: I forgot tigert |
| 22:17.17 | db48x | heh |
| 22:17.22 | timeless | _monkey tigert is <reply> |
| 22:17.23 | _Monkey | OK, timeless. |
| 22:17.31 | tigert | _Monkey: you suck :/ |
| 22:17.31 | _Monkey | tigert: excuse me? |
| 22:17.34 | timeless | _monkey tigert is something |
| 22:17.35 | _Monkey | ...but tigert is <reply>... |
| 22:17.35 | tigert | _Monkey: you suck. |
| 22:17.36 | _Monkey | tigert: huh? |
| 22:17.39 | timeless | it's afiller |
| 22:17.39 | tigert | :) |
| 22:17.46 | ||cw | what does <reply> do |
| 22:17.47 | timeless | _monkey s s is <reply> ! |
| 22:17.48 | tko | _Monkey is stupid.. |
| 22:17.48 | _Monkey | OK, timeless. |
| 22:17.51 | timeless | _monkey s s? |
| 22:17.52 | _Monkey | ! |
| 22:18.00 | db48x | timeless: oh, just so it doesn't pick up some new pointless thing? |
| 22:18.00 | timeless | it replies with empty |
| 22:18.01 | tigert | _Monkey is mostly annoying |
| 22:18.03 | timeless | yes |
| 22:18.07 | timeless | _monkey forget s s |
| 22:18.08 | _Monkey | timeless: I forgot s s |
| 22:18.13 | timeless | i.e., it's filler |
| 22:18.15 | shackan | tigert: woot! :) |
| 22:18.18 | elb | boo infobots |
| 22:18.20 | tigert | Solarion: ? |
| 22:18.37 | alterego | This is getting kind of retarded .. |
| 22:18.43 | tigert | shackan: so unfortunately the 2008 theme is not free, but at least it looks pretty sweet |
| 22:19.02 | tigert | it relies a lot on the wallpaper though |
| 22:19.22 | alterego | free? |
| 22:19.23 | tigert | and we are going to post some wallpapers made from our photos etc for the community once the theme is out |
| 22:19.58 | *** join/#maemo alex-weej (n=alex@cpc1-acto9-0-0-cust931.brnt.cable.ntl.com) |
| 22:20.05 | alterego | Crap .. Those eee's are going pretty quick. |
| 22:20.37 | tigert | eee? |
| 22:20.37 | _Monkey | eee is, like, the Asus Eee PC is a tiny, cheap, Linux-powered x86 laptop: http://eeepc.asus.com/ |
| 22:20.48 | Solarion | tigert: hi |
| 22:20.48 | _Monkey | what's up, Solarion |
| 22:20.48 | db48x | wow, he was useful |
| 22:20.59 | Solarion | _Monkey: how goes? |
| 22:21.00 | _Monkey | solarion: i don't know |
| 22:21.00 | alterego | Should I buy one. |
| 22:21.04 | alterego | There's only 6 left. |
| 22:21.05 | tigert | db48x: I was just thinking of the same |
| 22:21.16 | Solarion | tigert: seen you around #gnome-hackers. :) |
| 22:21.17 | _Monkey | I haven't seen 'you', Solarion |
| 22:21.21 | tigert | Solarion: yeah |
| 22:21.23 | db48x | haha |
| 22:21.34 | tigert | I should join #g-h again |
| 22:21.37 | alterego | Neah, I'll wait for the next revision. |
| 22:21.40 | tigert | but gimpnet keeps kicking me out from the server |
| 22:21.50 | czr | you're not gimpy enough? |
| 22:21.53 | tigert | I am |
| 22:22.01 | tigert | but I am lazy too :) |
| 22:22.03 | czr | hmm. maybe your ISP is not gimpy enough :-) |
| 22:22.07 | tigert | maybe |
| 22:22.13 | alterego | The battery life is supposed to improve in the next revision,. |
| 22:22.28 | tigert | anyway, gotta sleep so I can wake up for work tomorrow |
| 22:22.34 | tigert | good night boys and girls! :) |
| 22:22.37 | czr | night |
| 22:22.47 | alterego | Talking of battery life. Is OS2008 supposed to last longer? |
| 22:22.57 | czr | it will last up to the end of 2008. |
| 22:22.59 | tigert | alterego: if you use viagra, yes |
| 22:23.00 | alterego | Faster, More efficient, Last Longer? |
| 22:23.14 | Solarion | czr: that's a longbattery life. |
| 22:23.18 | alterego | Viagra? Is that like Android? |
| 22:23.32 | Solarion | alterego: It's a little blue pill |
| 22:23.35 | czr | Solarion, it would be nice though :-) |
| 22:23.41 | Solarion | czr: definitely. :) |
| 22:23.43 | alterego | As opposed to the red pill? |
| 22:23.46 | tigert | I dunno, I just hear thigns from the big boys |
| 22:23.47 | shackan | faster! harder! better! stronger! |
| 22:23.48 | alterego | Is this some new power save mode? |
| 22:23.49 | czr | although I'd need to start using valgrind finally ;-) |
| 22:24.07 | Solarion | alterego: I wouldn't say that viagra was intended to *save* power.... |
| 22:24.31 | alterego | If it's not green I'm not interested :P |
| 22:24.32 | pc_speaker | Enlarge your stylus :) |
| 22:24.36 | tigert | anyway, definitely the time to sleep |
| 22:24.43 | alterego | I just need a GPS in my stylus. |
| 22:24.46 | tigert | I cannot contribute much any useful stuff here anymore |
| 22:24.50 | tigert | see you tomorrow :) |
| 22:24.53 | alterego | Later |
| 22:26.08 | czr | alterego, cool. not do you not type suprise correctly, you smoke too. now, if I'd only convince you to switch to python, you'd be a perfect clone to me :-) |
| 22:26.18 | czr | not only even |
| 22:26.57 | tigert | czr: resistance is futile, your ass will be laminated! |
| 22:27.08 | czr | tigert, it is very tiny! |
| 22:27.12 | zerojay | timeless: Glad to see that bug finally entered. |
| 22:27.22 | czr | tigert, so one would need to be careful. |
| 22:27.27 | tigert | :) |
| 22:27.37 | tigert | anyway, night! |
| 22:27.41 | tigert | zZzZ & |
| 22:27.45 | czr | night |
| 22:27.56 | solmumaha | czr: forget python |
| 22:27.56 | _Monkey | solmumaha: I forgot python |
| 22:27.57 | timeless | Warning: missing newline at end of file chinook-20071107/release/alsa-plugins-1.0.14s/debian/control |
| 22:28.04 | czr | haha |
| 22:28.07 | solmumaha | :p |
| 22:28.07 | timeless | does debian care about that? |
| 22:28.19 | Solarion | timeless: it's a warning, not an error |
| 22:28.22 | timeless | zerojay: yeah, i had to lean on _|NiX|_ |
| 22:28.25 | czr | solmumaha, your evil jedi tricks might work on _Monkey, but I'm not that easy :-) |
| 22:28.30 | timeless | solarion: so i cna legally file a bug against it? |
| 22:28.36 | Solarion | timeless: surewhynot? ;) |
| 22:28.44 | timeless | solarion: because i don't speak debian |
| 22:28.47 | Solarion | you can file a bug about anything you want. |
| 22:28.54 | timeless | chinook-20071107/release/clinkc-av-1.0/config/config.guess: No such file or directory |
| 22:29.03 | timeless | that sounds like a bug |
| 22:29.07 | Solarion | yep |
| 22:29.09 | timeless | (typically it means a link to scratchbox) |
| 22:30.56 | zerojay | Someone with an N810 feel like helping me check on a bug? |
| 22:31.22 | timeless | btw, zerojay, meet _|nix|_, _|nix|_ meet zerojay |
| 22:31.58 | zerojay | _|Nix|_: hiya.. you're the guy working on Pidgin, right? |
| 22:32.08 | alterego | Nice,. |
| 22:32.12 | alterego | Where's gnutls13? |
| 22:33.08 | _|Nix|_ | zerojay: Yeah. |
| 22:33.19 | zerojay | _|Nix|_: I guess we're rivals then. ;) |
| 22:33.28 | _|Nix|_ | Wha ... ? |
| 22:33.32 | timeless | zerojay: bah, he's the guy nice enough to file the fkb bug :) |
| 22:33.36 | zerojay | Hehe. |
| 22:33.39 | zerojay | That's good enough for me. |
| 22:33.49 | _|Nix|_ | zWhat exactly are we fighting over? |
| 22:33.57 | zerojay | _|Nix|_: I'm pushing Jabber to kill Pidgin. ;P |
| 22:34.13 | zerojay | I'm just kidding, of course. |
| 22:34.18 | _|Nix|_ | zerojay: Oh, you mean those gateways ... |
| 22:34.22 | _|Nix|_ | Cool. |
| 22:34.31 | zerojay | I'm running a public Jabber server with all the gateways enabled and working and free for all tablet users. |
| 22:34.35 | zerojay | Well, anyone, actually. |
| 22:34.46 | _|Nix|_ | zerojay: Much like a-message.de ... |
| 22:35.08 | pupnik | if anyone is interested in doing something really helpful, getting xkbd virtual keyboard working with fullscreen SDL apps would be much appreciated... |
| 22:35.19 | Tb0n3 | ... |
| 22:35.34 | Tb0n3 | I had a check statement on my bank account, overdrawing |
| 22:35.39 | Tb0n3 | never wrote it |
| 22:35.41 | pupnik | working knowledge of X and input handling is probably required |
| 22:35.45 | zerojay | _|Nix|_: I suppose. We're pushing for other services for tablet users, showing them how to do things... stuff like that. |
| 22:36.25 | zerojay | One click adding of various podcasts and video casts to video center... |
| 22:36.38 | zerojay | Fun fun fun. |
| 22:36.58 | elb | jabber transports and pidgin solve two different problems |
| 22:37.23 | zerojay | I suppose. |
| 22:37.43 | zerojay | We're just kind of trying to offer everything a tablet user might want in one place. |
| 22:37.48 | zerojay | Eventually. |
| 22:37.53 | elb | no harm in that |
| 22:38.19 | elb | also, as long as jabber does not have the Pidgin concept of contact (which I believe it does not) with respect to transports, it will be shamefully behind ;-) |
| 22:38.29 | elb | of course, if one uses Pidgin as their jabber client ... |
| 22:38.30 | elb | ;-) |
| 22:38.40 | elb | but, I digress from the topic |
| 22:38.41 | _|Nix|_ | :o) |
| 22:38.51 | zerojay | I'm going to write up something in PHP for new users... so that they can sign up, add in their MSN, AIM and whatever on the site so they won't need a PC program to add the transports. |
| 22:38.56 | _|Nix|_ | Yeah ... ever since I've discovered contacts, I've never looked back ... |
| 22:39.19 | zerojay | elb: That's something that's client-based and almost every decent Jabber program has had that long before Pidgin ever did. :) |
| 22:39.26 | elb | I doubt that |
| 22:39.30 | zerojay | Even the N800's Jabber client does that. |
| 22:39.42 | elb | as when Pidgin sprouted the feature, it was one of the few working jabber clients ;-) |
| 22:39.58 | zerojay | Pidgin was late to the party. :) |
| 22:40.20 | elb | it's unfortunate if Jabber treats it as client-based |
| 22:40.30 | elb | that is a weakness that Pidgin has, by design, but jabber could do better |
| 22:40.31 | zerojay | Well, Pidgin does the same thing. |
| 22:40.36 | pc_speaker | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FJHYqE0RDg |
| 22:40.41 | pc_speaker | Android demo |
| 22:40.47 | elb | pidgin has to, as the various protocols are ignorant of each other |
| 22:41.02 | elb | but the jabber transport mechanism need not be so |
| 22:41.08 | zerojay | I'm pretty sure it COULD be done pretty easily... if it wasn't already done. |
| 22:41.48 | Tb0n3 | holy fucking hell |
| 22:42.17 | elb | Tb0n3: become a victim of identity theft? |
| 22:42.18 | Tb0n3 | I bought a meal at las vegas airport 3 weeks ago and they just fucking charged me last wednesday |
| 22:42.23 | Tb0n3 | that's what it was |
| 22:42.35 | elb | oh |
| 22:42.37 | Tb0n3 | 18.95 for 2 burgers at burger king |
| 22:42.40 | Tb0n3 | fuck airport prices |
| 22:42.42 | Tb0n3 | T_T |
| 22:42.49 | Tb0n3 | and their suck ass credit ways |
| 22:43.01 | elb | that possibly violates card agreements |
| 22:43.13 | *** join/#maemo shacka1 (n=frob@host146-147-dynamic.17-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 22:43.15 | elb | (I assume it was debit, and not a paper check?) |
| 22:43.24 | Tb0n3 | debit |
| 22:43.30 | Tb0n3 | on the 27th |
| 22:43.37 | Tb0n3 | 11 days later I'm charged |
| 22:43.40 | elb | if I recall correctly from the last place I was with a card processing station, we were required to process all transactions within 7 business days |
| 22:43.55 | elb | or perhaps 7 calendar days, I forget |
| 22:44.53 | _|Nix|_ | Woah ... the "contacts" icon looks like the Maemo one O_o |
| 22:45.35 | lardman|away | anyone know if python-central should confilict with debhelper? |
| 22:45.40 | *** join/#maemo acydlord (n=acydlord@ip68-3-221-156.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 22:45.41 | timeless | heh |
| 22:46.35 | pc_speaker | http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=D7C64411AF40DEA5 -- Androidology Architecture Overview |
| 22:46.59 | _|Nix|_ | Yaaay ... browser history via coverflow ... *sigh* ... |
| 22:47.34 | timeless | heh |
| 22:48.11 | _|Nix|_ | Ooooh ... street view ... |
| 22:48.46 | _|Nix|_ | Brin's accent is /almost/ gone. |
| 22:50.57 | alterego | ASUS make phones? |
| 22:51.32 | *** join/#maemo guru3_ (n=guru3@2002:5ae3:8196:1:0:0:0:1) |
| 22:52.59 | *** join/#maemo nelson (n=nelson@rrcs-72-43-17-50.nys.biz.rr.com) |
| 22:54.05 | *** join/#maemo fysa (n=j@653414hfc175.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 22:54.56 | pc_speaker | No, asus made a tiny notebook which some strange people compare to n800... |
| 22:55.10 | pc_speaker | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eeepc |
| 22:55.57 | alterego | They make phones |
| 22:56.05 | alterego | The Eeepc looks nice. |
| 22:56.08 | alterego | I think I'll get one. |
| 22:56.23 | alterego | I need something inbetween my laptop and tablet |
| 22:56.48 | pc_speaker | Good for people with huge laptops... |
| 22:56.59 | alterego | Well, mines pretty big. |
| 22:57.18 | alterego | It's the weight that kills me mostly. I don't drive so I have to walk every where or bus/train. |
| 22:57.25 | alterego | It takes it's toll after a whole day. |
| 22:57.28 | alterego | I like walking .. |
| 22:57.37 | pc_speaker | Useless for guys with 12" or even 11.1" notebooks... |
| 22:57.57 | pc_speaker | But very handy for 15.4 and 17 folks :))) |
| 22:57.59 | alterego | I need a bit more power than those have to offer :) |
| 22:58.07 | alterego | Yeah, mines 15.4" |
| 22:58.20 | pc_speaker | eeePC is very underpowered. |
| 22:58.28 | alterego | 900Mhz isn't underpowered. |
| 22:58.31 | pc_speaker | But it's x86 |
| 22:58.40 | pc_speaker | It runs in 634 now. |
| 22:58.46 | pc_speaker | Until BIOS update |
| 22:58.51 | alterego | meh |
| 22:59.03 | pc_speaker | Yeah, very strange. |
| 22:59.11 | alterego | I think I'll wait till the next iteration. With the lower power CPU (no fan) |
| 22:59.17 | alterego | Better battery life |
| 22:59.20 | pc_speaker | And bigger screen :) |
| 22:59.27 | alterego | Maybe, I dunno :) |
| 22:59.30 | pc_speaker | Whick takes all available space... |
| 22:59.36 | alterego | That would be cool. |
| 22:59.37 | *** join/#maemo ajturner (n=ajturner@c-68-43-182-233.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 22:59.44 | alterego | 1024x640 |
| 22:59.46 | elb | I have been demanding a laptop with 12 hour battery life for years |
| 22:59.47 | ||cw | then where would you put the speakers |
| 22:59.51 | elb | there's no reason we can't do it |
| 23:00.03 | alterego | You can do it now. |
| 23:00.07 | pc_speaker | I wanted the eee but bought n800 and fed my gadget addiction for some time.... |
| 23:00.08 | alterego | It'd be very heavy though. |
| 23:00.12 | elb | I didn't need a 10GHz processor five years ago, and I don't do anything different today than I did then |
| 23:00.33 | alterego | Yeah, I could probably get away with 800Mhz for most things. |
| 23:00.41 | alterego | Even maemo development. |
| 23:00.49 | pc_speaker | YouTube works well |
| 23:00.59 | pc_speaker | Not like in N800 :)))) |
| 23:01.13 | alterego | flash will be better in 2008 |
| 23:01.59 | *** join/#maemo ajturner (n=ajturner@c-68-43-182-233.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 23:02.01 | alterego | Hmm, ebuyer sold out of eeepc's anyhow. |
| 23:02.16 | elb | a laptop could easily be produced with a 500MHz or so ARM or G3-ish generation PowerPC that functioned perfectly well as a general purpose laptop for most of what I use it for; put a 4GB or so solid state disk in it for the main system, as well as a spinning disk for large media (which can be spun down most of the time), omit the massive graphics adapter and attendant power-hungry memory required for 3-D games, and a 12 hour battery life is easily within reach |
| 23:02.28 | pc_speaker | It will be sold out everywhere soon :))) |
| 23:02.41 | elb | maybe even more |
| 23:02.59 | pc_speaker | "500MHz or so ARM or G3-ish generation PowerPC" is to slow for laptom |
| 23:03.02 | elb | I mean, my iBook G3 got 5 hours on a new battery, and that was in 2001 with a spinning disk that virtually never spun down |
| 23:03.06 | elb | pc_speaker: not at all |
| 23:03.17 | pc_speaker | Don't wake up PAlm Foleo ghost :)))) |
| 23:03.25 | alterego | Well, you can have the nice low power PowerVR core in the SoC for compiz/beryl :) |
| 23:03.29 | elb | I'd be perfectly content with a 500MHz G3-class processor |
| 23:03.34 | alterego | Gotta have some candy every now-and-again ;) |
| 23:04.01 | alterego | I think 800 is my lower limit as far as a workstation is concerned. |
| 23:04.04 | derf | I'd rather underclock a newer processor that uses smaller lithography and can dynamically shut pieces of itself off. |
| 23:04.06 | pc_speaker | I prefer for battery time over effects on mobile platforms... |
| 23:04.20 | elb | we're not talking about a workstation, we're talking about a laptop |
| 23:04.29 | alterego | pc_speaker, the point is it won't severly drain that battery. |
| 23:04.33 | pc_speaker | Compiz is overkill for pocket devices :)))) |
| 23:04.35 | *** join/#maemo Atarii (n=Atarii@82-46-182-49.cable.ubr02.perr.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 23:04.36 | elb | my laptop is a glorified X terminal and web browser a large portion of the time |
| 23:05.32 | alterego | My laptop .. |
| 23:05.36 | alterego | Well, it's a POS |
| 23:05.49 | alterego | ~4 years old |
| 23:06.00 | alterego | Wasn't particularly good back then either. |
| 23:06.20 | elb | mine was OK when it was new, but the death of the media bay battery has confined me to 2.5-3h away from mains |
| 23:06.23 | elb | which is PITIFUL |
| 23:06.34 | alterego | The battery doesn't work in mine. |
| 23:06.41 | elb | anything that won't make a transatlantic flight is pathetic |
| 23:06.42 | alterego | Has to be plugged in |
| 23:06.50 | alterego | Hah |
| 23:06.54 | elb | which means basically all laptops, I guess ;-) |
| 23:06.59 | shacka1 | elb: puh |
| 23:07.01 | alterego | And internet tablets :P |
| 23:07.08 | pc_speaker | http://www.laptopgiving.org/en/index.php |
| 23:07.12 | timeless | how long are transatlantic flights these days? |
| 23:07.15 | pc_speaker | OLPC is available too :) |
| 23:07.26 | shacka1 | elb: I do as much with an almost new battery, and never drained it yet |
| 23:07.33 | timeless | i think cranking an olpc counts as cheating |
| 23:07.34 | zerojay | Aren't they like.. 6 hours? |
| 23:07.42 | shacka1 | timeless: lol... |
| 23:07.45 | zerojay | Maybe 8? |
| 23:08.09 | elb | timeless: about 6:30 one direction and 7:30 the other, I think |
| 23:08.14 | elb | depends on where to where, of course |
| 23:08.28 | timeless | theoretically that's doable w/ a tablet |
| 23:08.42 | shacka1 | timeless: in standby? |
| 23:08.43 | timeless | and possibly some laptops w/ that extra battery in the bay and max power configured |
| 23:08.49 | timeless | not standbye |
| 23:08.53 | pc_speaker | Not watching a movie :) |
| 23:08.58 | timeless | no |
| 23:08.58 | elb | there have been various laptops over the years which could do it, but generally not without some gyrations and luck |
| 23:09.14 | pc_speaker | N800 last for one full time movie in mplayer... |
| 23:09.19 | elb | as I said, my iBook G3 got 5 hours in 2001, that's close |
| 23:09.32 | alterego | You can plug in the tablets in planes now. |
| 23:09.38 | pc_speaker | Apple has strong batteries... |
| 23:09.47 | pc_speaker | Sometimes exploding... |
| 23:09.47 | elb | Apple *had* !x86 |
| 23:09.52 | elb | x86 is a filthy power whore |
| 23:09.54 | pc_speaker | But it's OK :))) |
| 23:10.04 | elb | the newest generations are better, but still ... |
| 23:10.12 | daniels | the thinkpad x40 will haul about 6h on the 8-cell battery, and 11h or thereabouts with the extended life battery. |
| 23:10.15 | alterego | I think I'll strip down my spare noke charger and make a external battery pack this weekend. |
| 23:10.50 | pc_speaker | BTW can n800 be charged over USB? |
| 23:10.53 | alterego | Think I'll also get a solar charger for next summer. |
| 23:10.55 | timeless | no |
| 23:10.57 | elb | I'm yet to fly even a transatlantic (or transpacific) flight that had power jacks |
| 23:10.59 | zerojay | I wish Nokia would sell a higher capacity battery. They would fly off the shelves.. if they can put it into the same amount of space, anyways. |
| 23:11.01 | elb | though people act like they're commonplace |
| 23:11.13 | timeless | zerojay: last i checked, nokia batteries were very expensive |
| 23:11.15 | timeless | but that reminds me |
| 23:11.26 | elb | maybe they are if you're not in coach, which is where I invariably am ;-) |
| 23:11.29 | timeless | someone said there was a nokia product that operated on batteries for charging others |
| 23:11.32 | pc_speaker | Even PSP can by charged over USB :))) |
| 23:11.38 | zerojay | timeless: I wouldn't know. I've never paid for it. |
| 23:11.46 | zerojay | pc_speaker: PSP doesn't charge by USB. |
| 23:11.50 | timeless | zerojay: iirc it's 50<cur>+ |
| 23:11.54 | lcdd | hp claims ~14 hour battery life for some of their laptops |
| 23:11.56 | zerojay | pc_speaker: Only the PSP Slim can. |
| 23:12.06 | elb | there is a nokia USB power adapter, I saw it on the accessories page |
| 23:12.08 | alterego | pfft. |
| 23:12.13 | pc_speaker | PSP Slim is still PSP :))) |
| 23:12.17 | elb | it plugs into a USB port on one end, and the nokia power port on the other |
| 23:12.20 | alterego | psp is cack at anything but playing games. |
| 23:12.29 | alterego | elb yeah. That's possible. |
| 23:12.30 | *** join/#maemo unique311 (n=unique31@ool-457ae2a6.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 23:12.47 | alterego | That would be quite handy actually. |
| 23:12.50 | zerojay | alterego: Disagree with you there. I used it for all my portable media before the N800. |
| 23:12.54 | zerojay | anyways.. bbl |
| 23:12.54 | alterego | Would only need one plug for laptop and tablet. |
| 23:13.18 | alterego | Yeah, suppose it'd be good for video/audio. |
| 23:13.23 | alterego | Well, adequate. |
| 23:13.40 | timeless | bah |
| 23:13.42 | zerojay | Browser's okay.. nothing special, but helpful when needed. |
| 23:13.47 | fysa | If the PSP had a touchscreen, it would have taken over the world. |
| 23:13.56 | pc_speaker | PSP can't play non-converted movies, but N800 can :) |
| 23:13.58 | alterego | Yes, I refer mainly to the lack of touchscreen. |
| 23:14.01 | zerojay | fysa: Touchscreens for games suck. |
| 23:14.05 | timeless | ok, how would one search for a device which has disposable batteries w/ a mini nokia power output plug |
| 23:14.09 | alterego | Wouldn't be for the games. |
| 23:14.11 | timeless | for charging nokia phones |
| 23:14.17 | timeless | someone claims it exists |
| 23:14.21 | pc_speaker | Yes |
| 23:14.21 | timeless | but i can't think of how to seek it |
| 23:14.26 | alterego | "USB phone charger" |
| 23:14.27 | zerojay | pc_speaker: The PSP can play almost all the same formats the N800 can. |
| 23:14.29 | timeless | not usb |
| 23:14.30 | fysa | and/or bluetooth for a keyboard/mouse |
| 23:14.36 | timeless | standard nokia plug |
| 23:14.49 | lardman|back | has anyone used opengl on the n800? |
| 23:14.59 | alterego | timeless, just make one :) |
| 23:15.05 | alterego | lardman, no, it's not possible. |
| 23:15.08 | pc_speaker | http://nds3.nokia.com/pressphotos/public/global/enhancements/other/nokia_power_pack_dc1_low.jpg |
| 23:15.11 | alterego | (yet) |
| 23:15.15 | lardman|back | alterego: in software it ought to be |
| 23:15.16 | pc_speaker | Here it is :))) |
| 23:15.18 | _|Nix|_ | zerojay: "almost"? That's not much, then ... but, I guess I'm no judge ... |
| 23:15.30 | alterego | I tried to cross-compile mesa |
| 23:15.33 | lardman|back | alterego: I compiled it a while back as a dep for something |
| 23:15.33 | alterego | Didn't get very far. |
| 23:15.40 | alterego | Though, I didn't actually do anything. |
| 23:15.45 | alterego | Probably missing deps |
| 23:15.50 | lardman|back | oh, I've probably got a binary somewhere, no idea if it works or not |
| 23:16.24 | fysa | but not having to transcode SD TV anymore quickly gets me to forget the PSP |
| 23:16.25 | alterego | You should team up with sciboy .. He wants blender mobile (real bad) |
| 23:16.39 | lardman|back | I want some snazzy 3D graphs |
| 23:16.48 | zerojay | _|Nix|_: No one uses Real anymore, so we can ignore that. ;) |
| 23:16.48 | pc_speaker | Will N800 blend? :) |
| 23:16.59 | alterego | pc_speaker, what the hell is that? |
| 23:17.00 | _|Nix|_ | zerojay: I do ... |
| 23:17.01 | timeless | _|nix|_: any idea? |
| 23:17.07 | timeless | (dc-1) |
| 23:17.15 | pc_speaker | Packed with Power: Nokia Power Pack DC-1 |
| 23:17.15 | pc_speaker | A busy lifestyle means you may not always be conveniently near a power outlet when you need one - but now you can be. The Nokia Power Pack DC-1 has reserve power in a pretty and portable package, so you can take the equivalent of up to three batteries** with you and recharge your mobile device when you most need it. Compatible with Nokia 2mm charging interfaces, the power pack has two charge output cables so you can easily charge two dev |
| 23:17.15 | pc_speaker | ly, it will cost an estimated 105 euro, without taxes. |
| 23:17.18 | pc_speaker | These enhancements will be available globally from the fourth quarter of 2007. |
| 23:17.22 | pc_speaker | *When supported by a compatible mobile device |
| 23:17.23 | daniels | elb: fwiw, both ba and qantas have laptop power in economy plus and business on uk<->au flights |
| 23:17.24 | pc_speaker | **with battery capacity of 950 mAh |
| 23:17.26 | _|Nix|_ | timeless: I dunno ... it was fairly simple for me ... |
| 23:17.31 | *** join/#maemo Tb0m3 (n=Tb0n3@cpe-74-76-253-9.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 23:17.39 | timeless | _|nix|_: you ordered the dc-1? |
| 23:17.52 | *** join/#maemo vivijim (n=vivijim@200.184.118.132) |
| 23:17.52 | alterego | Cool, tablet & phone chargine at the same time ^_^ |
| 23:17.58 | pc_speaker | 105 euro is overkill... |
| 23:18.14 | timeless | pc_speaker: if nokia pays, how can i complain? |
| 23:18.20 | _|Nix|_ | timeless: Dunno what that is (an airplane?). I ordered a PC. /That/ was easy. |
| 23:18.23 | alterego | That's more than I'm gonna pay for the N810 :/ |
| 23:18.33 | pc_speaker | Lucky :) |
| 23:18.41 | timeless | _|nix|_: http://europe.nokia.com/A4487188 |
| 23:18.52 | fysa | i picked up an iGo universal charger kit the other day. it can do battery charging with nokia/usb/ipod/anything plugs |
| 23:19.05 | timeless | how much? |
| 23:19.08 | pc_speaker | N810 and N800 compatible :) |
| 23:19.12 | alterego | Heh |
| 23:19.36 | _|Nix|_ | timeless: nift-o ... |
| 23:19.38 | fysa | 30 usd + 5-10 per plug end |
| 23:19.55 | timeless | _|nix|_: now i just need you to help me order it :) |
| 23:19.57 | lardman|back | ~lart relocation error |
| 23:19.57 | infobot | DoSes relocation error |
| 23:19.58 | elb | daniels: yeah, I hear things like that all the time -- but last time I flew Qantas LAX->SYD and MEL->LAX, I had no such thing |
| 23:20.04 | _|Nix|_ | No I wonder how much heavier it is charged than empty ... |
| 23:20.04 | pc_speaker | http://www.ultramobilegeek.com/2007/11/asus-eee-mini-hands-on.html |
| 23:20.12 | pc_speaker | eeePC and N810 =))) |
| 23:20.14 | elb | daniels: perhaps I'm just monumentally unlucky :-) |
| 23:20.33 | daniels | elb: qantas definitely has it in business on their 747s. if you ask the flight attendants, they'll generally take your laptop and put it under a spare seat to charge. |
| 23:20.39 | fysa | and the plug ends go into either a wall, car or battery charger.. with optional splitter for 2 devices |
| 23:20.47 | elb | and, no love on Aeroflot (unsurprising, I don't think there were power jacks in 1973) or Delta to/from Moscow |
| 23:20.47 | timeless | daniels: wow |
| 23:21.11 | elb | daniels: hah business, that would cement my unfamiliarity with any such service ;-) |
| 23:21.17 | elb | I would fly baggage if they'd let me |
| 23:21.19 | alterego | That's mobile development .. Code in your hands .. |
| 23:21.47 | _|Nix|_ | elb: LOL :o) |
| 23:22.12 | _|Nix|_ | elb: In Soviet Russia, we had treadmills for power jacks :o) |
| 23:22.16 | daniels | elb: they're usually pretty fine with it; i've done it a couple of times now on mel<->lhr. |
| 23:22.47 | elb | daniels: I'll try that with Delta next month on the ATL<->SVO run |
| 23:23.00 | elb | I'll no doubt exhaust my battery at some point :-P |
| 23:23.20 | fysa | http://www.amazon.com/iGo-powerXtender-PS00264-0001-Universal-Battery-Operated/dp/B000O2X2OU |
| 23:25.37 | pc_speaker | Intel promises N800 like devices on x86 next year. That could be interesting... |
| 23:26.15 | pc_speaker | Will make porting even simplier task... |
| 23:26.43 | alterego | Yeah .. Wonder about price range. |
| 23:26.52 | timeless | price range isn't interesting |
| 23:26.54 | *** join/#maemo kuzew (n=kuzew@ool-182d17d7.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 23:26.54 | timeless | battery life is |
| 23:27.07 | timeless | the price range for a device needs to be less than $300 |
| 23:27.17 | alterego | Also, I wonder if Nokia will move from ARM to Intel in the future .. |
| 23:28.06 | pc_speaker | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_Internet_Device#Menlow_.282008.29 |
| 23:28.12 | pc_speaker | Like apple moved from ppc :))) |
| 23:28.27 | pc_speaker | N800 is a MID :) |
| 23:28.28 | |R | n900 with 1Ghz x86, 1024x600, tilt sensors, tactil screen, 300$... 6h battery while playing quake, i'm all for that :P |
| 23:28.49 | pc_speaker | 300$ are you kidding? |
| 23:28.52 | |R | yes |
| 23:28.53 | |R | :) |
| 23:28.56 | pc_speaker | Even 810 cost more :))) |
| 23:29.07 | alterego | Erm .. I don't think the screen should get any bigger. |
| 23:29.11 | alterego | Or higher res .. |
| 23:29.23 | alterego | The N810 screen is almost pixel perfect in my books. |
| 23:29.28 | alterego | I can't imagine a better screen. |
| 23:29.36 | pc_speaker | I can :) |
| 23:29.42 | |R | alterego : well 5", covering the whole front, not taking any more space... with higher res, could be very nice :) |
| 23:29.51 | pc_speaker | Yes :) |
| 23:29.55 | alterego | An internal projector capable of 1600 widescreen .. That would be better. |
| 23:30.00 | ds3 | HMD! |
| 23:30.01 | |R | haha yeah |
| 23:30.05 | |R | oh yes |
| 23:30.09 | |R | give me HMD! |
| 23:30.09 | pc_speaker | Personal teleportation :) |
| 23:30.18 | ds3 | I'll settle for NTSC in the mean time ;) |
| 23:30.21 | |R | i want something like Steve Mann has |
| 23:30.27 | alterego | Seriously, they're making 1cm^2 projectors. |
| 23:30.28 | |R | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:30.32 | |R | that thing is sooo slick |
| 23:30.57 | |R | let me find a link :) |
| 23:30.59 | alterego | Add a laser pointing device so you can just rotate/pan the device for point and click on the projector :) |
| 23:31.43 | alterego | Maybe have corner sensors so it can adjust the image aspect ratio, crop resize trapezoid the image depending on distances between projection and surface. |
| 23:32.07 | _|Nix|_ | Right ... sleep ... I remember sleep ... |
| 23:32.34 | alterego | I actually dreamt of a device. Identical to the internet tablet range. With just a few more features in 2001 |
| 23:32.48 | alterego | The projector was one of those features. Screw TV-Out ;) |
| 23:32.49 | |R | uhm, can't find it, but there was a freakin' nice HMD :P |
| 23:32.50 | pc_speaker | Apple Newton! :) |
| 23:33.01 | timeless | in 2001, i had an audrey |
| 23:33.11 | alterego | In 2001 I had .. |
| 23:33.13 | alterego | Erm .. |
| 23:33.13 | *** join/#maemo ywwg (n=owen@c-71-232-7-53.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 23:33.30 | timeless | it was about as fast as the 770, had a touch screen, and cost about what a 770 costs today |
| 23:33.38 | alterego | 800Mhz PIII and an Acorn RiscPC SA prototype |
| 23:33.41 | timeless | but it was prettier |
| 23:33.51 | timeless | audrey = 200mhz geode |
| 23:34.33 | alterego | I played with a neat Acorn prototype. It was an SA (233Mhz) A4 size tablet PC. |
| 23:34.36 | ds3 | NTSC out would let you use a cheap HMD |
| 23:34.37 | alterego | That thing was awesome. |
| 23:34.51 | alterego | Way before tablet PC's were as popular as they are now ;) |
| 23:35.14 | alterego | NTSC is for kids. |
| 23:35.15 | elb | re: higher-resolution screen, an extremely high resolution B&W reflective display overlaid with the color display (a là OLPC) would be nice |
| 23:35.29 | timeless | you mean a micro olpc? |
| 23:35.40 | timeless | or more like some of those ebooks i've seen planned |
| 23:35.51 | pc_speaker | For micro african kids :) |
| 23:36.00 | pc_speaker | Pigmeys :) |
| 23:36.04 | alterego | Yeah, I'd like to try an eInk device. |
| 23:36.14 | elb | I mean in an "internet tablet"; I was responding to alterego's comment that he didn't see the need for a higher resolution |
| 23:36.26 | pc_speaker | e-ink is expensive and useless. |
| 23:36.27 | elb | for color display, he's almost certainly right |
| 23:36.44 | elb | but for document reading, high-resolution grayscale is a powerful thing |
| 23:36.46 | alterego | elb, interesting idea. |
| 23:36.47 | pc_speaker | No backlighting is not good :) |
| 23:37.04 | elb | pc_speaker: no backlighting is very good for your eyes |
| 23:37.12 | czr | hmm. what different deprecation defines are there for hildon? |
| 23:37.19 | alterego | Yeah, backlights hurt meh eyez |
| 23:37.46 | alterego | czr, I came across one but I can't remember what it was :P |
| 23:37.50 | *** join/#maemo tnoleto (n=tnoleto@201-75-60-123-ma.cpe.vivax.com.br) |
| 23:37.50 | elb | backlit displays are very tiring for eyes, particularly in low-light situations -- reflective displays encourage sufficient lighting for proper reading |
| 23:37.51 | pc_speaker | But you can read with very bad light around :) |
| 23:37.59 | alterego | And I've looked quite deeply at hildon .. |
| 23:38.21 | pc_speaker | And back scared? |
| 23:38.23 | alterego | It's bad for your eyez. |
| 23:38.30 | czr | alterego, any hint? |
| 23:38.30 | elb | (I keep my office and other workspaces quite dark, but do light sufficiently for reading) |
| 23:38.35 | *** join/#maemo mzlplx (n=user@12-202-30-153.client.mchsi.com) |
| 23:38.39 | czr | (others are free to answer too :-) |
| 23:38.45 | alterego | czr, I can tell you the differences and you can look around there. |
| 23:39.00 | czr | alterego, does not compute. differences of what? |
| 23:39.07 | alterego | API changes |
| 23:39.15 | czr | I'm not after API changes |
| 23:39.27 | czr | I'm after the define to drop deprecated stuff |
| 23:39.36 | czr | similar to ones in GLIB and GTK+ |
| 23:39.49 | alterego | Yeah, I can tell you the deprecated items and you should be able to find defines there. |
| 23:39.51 | alterego | If there are any. |
| 23:39.59 | czr | GTK_DISABLE_DEPRECATED for example |
| 23:40.02 | alterego | Am I making sense? |
| 23:40.06 | pupnik | with OS2008 we're slowly running out of things to want |
| 23:40.07 | alterego | I'm kind of tired :) |
| 23:40.07 | czr | maybe I'll just grep for DEPRECATED :-) |
| 23:40.14 | alterego | czr, perfect ;) |
| 23:40.20 | alterego | Like I said, I saw one occurance. |
| 23:40.27 | alterego | Let me know how many you find ;) |
| 23:41.29 | pc_speaker | grep for "I don't know how it works so don't touch this" :) |
| 23:41.37 | czr | HILDON_DISABLE_DEPRECATED, GCONF_DISABLE_DEPRECATED GNOME_VFS_DISABLE_DEPRECATED PANGO_DISABLE_DEPRECATED and others |
| 23:41.53 | czr | (+ the regular ones for GLib and GTK+) |
| 23:41.57 | alterego | Right |
| 23:42.25 | |R | http://www.trittontechnologies.com/products/TRIUV100.htm |
| 23:42.38 | |R | VGA out from the USB... |
| 23:42.40 | pc_speaker | Wow :) |
| 23:42.48 | |R | now we need a head mounted display for single eye.. |
| 23:43.02 | ywwg | can someone help me get started with scratchbox, etc? I'm trying to do something simple and it's not working |
| 23:43.04 | alterego | czr, I'm gonna make a Ruby programmable bluetooth remote control helicopter for indoor use this weekend ^_^ |
| 23:43.08 | pc_speaker | Samsung sells USB displays BTW :) |
| 23:43.10 | pupnik | PhoneMEAdvanced MR2 Java CDC/FP version 1.1 VM for the N800 << what is missing from that? http://wiki.java.net/bin/view/Mobileandembedded/PhoneMEAdvancedPlatformsNokia800 |
| 23:43.20 | alterego | czr, want a "one-click-install" for that? |
| 23:43.32 | alterego | Oh, it'll be controlled by the tablet. |
| 23:43.36 | alterego | Or a phone |
| 23:43.36 | |R | pc_speaker oh :) |
| 23:43.37 | _Monkey | hmmm... a phone is for voice and data |
| 23:43.46 | fysa | would that play cell phone games? |
| 23:43.51 | czr | alterego, I prefer the real rc controls for thos things. they're fun though :-) |
| 23:44.02 | alterego | _Monkey forget phone |
| 23:44.03 | _Monkey | alterego: I forgot phone |
| 23:44.11 | alterego | _Monkey phone is <reply> |
| 23:44.11 | _Monkey | OK, alterego. |
| 23:44.20 | pupnik | yes that is my question, i don't know much about java and how it needs to integrate with hildon |
| 23:44.38 | alterego | Integration with hildon should be easy pupnik. |
| 23:44.46 | alterego | Just look at the Gtk bindings and add your own hildon stuff. |
| 23:44.51 | pc_speaker | Java in N800? What's next? Cobol? |
| 23:44.57 | pc_speaker | :) |
| 23:45.02 | alterego | I don't know how to make Java C extensions though .. |
| 23:45.11 | czr | pc_speaker, it's COBOL. |
| 23:45.15 | elb | I demand a HUD |
| 23:45.15 | alterego | I presume it's pretty simple once you get usde to it .. |
| 23:45.19 | czr | besides, porting COBOL would be easy :-) |
| 23:45.25 | pupnik | well if anybody is curious and interested in java there's the link |
| 23:45.35 | czr | and the language does actually have some nice features |
| 23:45.37 | timeless | ok, fwiw, i'm building a newer xref for chinook, i'll push it in +12 hours |
| 23:45.38 | doublec | use jna (if possible) |
| 23:45.42 | czr | too bad it got such a bad reputation :-) |
| 23:45.45 | doublec | that makes it really easy to use native libraries from java |
| 23:45.47 | |R | anyone know if the OS2008 for n800 will be a different image than the one for N810? |
| 23:46.00 | pupnik | "Right now, Java on the N800 is purely a command line affair, i.e. no Maemo GUI integration exists as yet" |
| 23:46.02 | timeless | |r: why do you care? |
| 23:46.04 | zerojay | |R: Same one. |
| 23:46.11 | zerojay | As far as we know. |
| 23:46.20 | |R | timeless : to have a boot card that could work on both (for example) |
| 23:46.30 | |R | zerojay : ok |
| 23:46.32 | pc_speaker | So there is a way to extract it from 810 and install on 800... |
| 23:46.45 | pc_speaker | Have anyone tried this? |
| 23:46.55 | lardman|back | what does ## do in a #define? concatenate? |
| 23:46.56 | timeless | during development, the images used to be the same |
| 23:46.56 | czr | what's up with pkg-config in 4.0 sdk? |
| 23:47.05 | czr | why doesn't it list the installed pc files with --list-all? |
| 23:47.06 | timeless | it's unclear that this will actually be the case for the release |
| 23:47.17 | alterego | I don't like JAva so I'm not going to do it. |
| 23:47.23 | czr | can anyone verify on 4.0: pkg-config --list-all | grep gconf |
| 23:47.33 | alterego | Ruby is a far better Java |
| 23:47.45 | elb | amen |
| 23:47.45 | timeless | czr: would that require a working sdk? |
| 23:47.56 | czr | timeless, err, I'd assume so :-) |
| 23:47.56 | alterego | Like, Python is a better C/C++ |
| 23:48.06 | czr | alterego, or python is a better ruby. |
| 23:48.07 | daniels | the kernel and initfs are the same. the bootloader is not the same, though the one fiasco image will almost certainly contain both, as it did during development. the rootfs may or may not be different, but this won't have any functional effect. |
| 23:48.13 | alterego | czr, not likely. |
| 23:48.14 | zerojay | Anyone with a N810 can confirm a bug for me? |
| 23:48.17 | alterego | Python isn't fully OO |
| 23:48.23 | pc_speaker | Ruby is anime of programming languages... :) |
| 23:48.29 | daniels | (the rootfs difference, if it exists, will just be documentation: either the n810 or n800 user manual. the software is completely device-agnostic.) |
| 23:48.31 | *** join/#maemo mallum (n=mallum@host86-136-65-61.range86-136.btcentralplus.com) |
| 23:48.33 | daniels | zerojay: go on |
| 23:48.37 | |R | zerojay : /msg :) |
| 23:48.42 | zerojay | |R: I can't send private messages and I'm not registering to do it. |
| 23:48.46 | alterego | Ruby is Perl/Python/Java/Smalltalk/Lisp |
| 23:48.47 | |R | oh ok |
| 23:48.48 | czr | alterego, forcing OO on all people is somehow a good thing? |
| 23:48.49 | |R | ehhe |
| 23:48.54 | zerojay | |R: Ouais, par les states. |
| 23:48.57 | alterego | czr, it's not forced. It's just there. |
| 23:49.02 | czr | alterego, so it is forced. |
| 23:49.06 | czr | just like in java. |
| 23:49.06 | zerojay | daniels: Bug #2265 |
| 23:49.07 | _Monkey | Bug 2265 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2265 |
| 23:49.07 | alterego | You can be as procedural or whatever as you like. |
| 23:49.12 | pc_speaker | Brainfuck IDE fpr N800? Anyone? |
| 23:49.14 | daniels | wow, that thing was useful |
| 23:49.26 | |R | zerojay : ok, j'ai mis france parceque j ai de la famille là bas mais je suis en train de me demander si avoir un clavier azerty et le canal wifi 12-13 c est une bonne idée :P |
| 23:49.27 | zerojay | daniels: Jabber connection issue. |
| 23:49.36 | daniels | zerojay: i'll have a look tomorrow |
| 23:49.38 | alterego | czr, Just because "_everything_ is an object" doesn't mean you have to act like it :) |
| 23:49.47 | timeless | daniels: /join |
| 23:49.52 | czr | alterego, I'll wait until you come to work for nokia in helsinki and then we'll have a showdown on the streets about this issue. (I'll whoop your ass, or at least attempt to) :-) |
| 23:49.54 | zerojay | |R: Ouais.. azerty... ca marche pas pour moi. ;) |
| 23:49.56 | alterego | I didn't like OO much until Ruby |
| 23:49.58 | daniels | timeless: already did ... |
| 23:50.04 | zerojay | daniels: Okay, thanks. |
| 23:50.05 | procto | so, anyone know if the BH-800 Headset will work with the N800? |
| 23:50.07 | timeless | oops |
| 23:50.08 | elb | czr: ruby really doesn't force OO at all |
| 23:50.12 | |R | zerojay : hehe, je mettrai de stickers, tant que c est que de settings logiciel :) |
| 23:50.18 | alterego | I was more into Lisp and functional programming. |
| 23:50.19 | elb | it's quite a beautiful language in many ways |
| 23:50.21 | czr | timeless, what was your question about a working sdk though? |
| 23:50.21 | procto | I made some progress in getting a regular old bluetooth headset working |
| 23:50.25 | procto | (that is, not A2DP) |
| 23:50.26 | elb | and I'm glad to see it's arriving on Maemo ;-) |
| 23:50.33 | timeless | czr: i have a source xref for chinook |
| 23:50.33 | procto | but still not so great |
| 23:50.51 | czr | timeless, and that helps how? :-) |
| 23:50.56 | alterego | elb, it's pretty usable now. I'm working for desktop plugin support at the moment. |
| 23:51.02 | czr | ah, you mean you don't have a working sdk setup? |
| 23:51.06 | timeless | right |
| 23:51.09 | czr | right. |
| 23:51.14 | czr | anyone with working 4.0 sdk setup? |
| 23:51.15 | zerojay | |R: Peut etre un peut problematique avec le backlight du clavier. ;) |
| 23:51.21 | alterego | czr, yes |
| 23:51.30 | elb | ruby is my go-to language for pretty much everything that doesn't require super performance |
| 23:51.32 | czr | alterego, can you verify one thing: pkg-config --list-all | grep gconf |
| 23:51.34 | elb | which is basically everything ;-) |
| 23:51.35 | alterego | czr, it's gconf2 I believe |
| 23:51.43 | czr | alterego, it should show up in the grep |
| 23:51.52 | |R | zerojay : ah shit... j avais oublié ca haha ... bon, uh... ahh argh oh well, j vais vivre avec q=a etc ;P |
| 23:51.52 | czr | list-all after all. |
| 23:51.54 | alterego | I'll just check. |
| 23:51.54 | procto | so, uh, any news about headsets on any maemo device? |
| 23:52.33 | alterego | Duplicate definition of variable 'prefix' in '/usr/lib/pkgconfig/sofia-tools.pc' |
| 23:52.45 | czr | alterego, but no gconf. right? |
| 23:52.47 | alterego | That's not good. |
| 23:52.49 | alterego | Right |
| 23:52.56 | czr | it isn't indeed. --list-all misses a lot of packages |
| 23:53.01 | zerojay | |R: J'ai jamais utilizer un clavier azerty... ca doit etre un peut.... melangent. |
| 23:53.03 | czr | the issue was already present in 4.0beta |
| 23:53.09 | zerojay | |R: Sorry, my french sucks. |
| 23:53.09 | alterego | It's in /usr/lib/pkgconfig |
| 23:53.19 | czr | alterego, I know. |
| 23:53.25 | pupnik | David Weinehall said: "No ogg this time either =( I'm pissed about this too, but it's not my decision. You'll have to take this up with Ari, Anssi Vanjokki or similar instead, to let the management know it's a desired feature" |
| 23:53.26 | czr | alterego, that wasn't the issue either. |
| 23:53.26 | |R | zerojay : oh hehe thought it was fine since you were in qc.qc :) |
| 23:53.40 | |R | took a guess ;) |
| 23:53.41 | alterego | czr, pkg-config reports correct when it's queried too. |
| 23:53.52 | czr | alterego, I know that too. that again isn't the issue :-) |
| 23:53.53 | *** join/#maemo erstazi (n=erstazi@unaffiliated/erstazi) |
| 23:53.58 | pupnik | Feel free to send nokia feedback about ogg support :) |
| 23:54.03 | alterego | czr, so pkg-config is lazy? |
| 23:54.14 | alterego | Or are you thinking there's something more sinister ;) |
| 23:54.21 | czr | alterego, the grep idiom is very useful when you don't exactly remember what you need or maybe a package changed the name (like hildon-libs -> hildon-1 and hildon-fm-2 and such) |
| 23:54.26 | |R | zerojay : azerty is just well, the same as qwerty except for q=a w=z m=; and some number think that won't matter on the n810 i think |
| 23:54.37 | czr | I always think sinister. that too, is besides the point :-) |
| 23:54.37 | alterego | czr, I know. I use grep all the time ;) |
| 23:54.42 | zerojay | |R: C'est pas un probleme. C'est juste que c'est pas ma langue maternelle (ooops, fucked that up). |
| 23:54.42 | *** part/#maemo mzlplx (n=user@12-202-30-153.client.mchsi.com) |
| 23:54.49 | *** join/#maemo dolske (n=dolske@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com) |
| 23:54.57 | czr | alterego, I'll try to do a silly fix |
| 23:55.11 | |R | zerojay : theoretically mine is Czech but i forgot it in kindergarden ;) |
| 23:55.19 | alterego | czr, I just didn't know why you were asking me to do that above 'pkg-config --exists' |
| 23:55.24 | alterego | Now I do :) |
| 23:55.39 | czr | alterego, ah, sry. should've explained |
| 23:55.51 | pupnik | if lardman gets his ogg working i am sending him some german beer or something |
| 23:55.53 | alterego | No matter, I'm heading to bed now. |
| 23:55.57 | czr | pkg-config stops on the first pc file in which it has problems. moving sofia.pc out of that directly fixed the problem |
| 23:56.00 | pupnik | cu alterego |
| 23:56.14 | alterego | Groovy. |
| 23:56.19 | alterego | Good night folks. |
| 23:56.25 | czr | night alterego |
| 23:56.25 | *** join/#maemo mzlplx (n=user@12-202-30-153.client.mchsi.com) |
| 23:56.42 | |R | zerojay : in the end having channel 12-13 for wifi might be more useful than a keyboard whose key i won't be looking at when typing... |
| 23:56.47 | lardman|back | pupnik: ogg's annoying me |
| 23:56.57 | |R | zerojay : but i'm still hesitating :P |
| 23:56.58 | lardman|back | pupnik: I don't use it, am feeling quite unmotivated atm |
| 23:57.04 | czr | where do I report a bug in sofia.pc against? (it's the sip tools library smt) |
| 23:57.14 | pupnik | this I can understand! |
| 23:57.28 | *** part/#maemo MoRpHeUz (n=morphbr@200.184.118.132) |
| 23:58.11 | lardman|back | pupnik: I should create a garage project, might get more people helping, and perhaps more motivation |
| 23:58.36 | timeless | oh right |
| 23:58.46 | timeless | someone was complaining about radio yesterday |
| 23:58.48 | timeless | who was that? |
