IRC log for #maemo on 20071028

00:00.03sciboyNo interest or patience, not a programmer.
00:00.12BlueGeneI'm a programmer :)
00:00.39alteregoBut you expect someone else to do it for you? Seriously, it's probably not that a greater task.
00:00.40sciboyI'm just an animator looking for an engine to work with so I can focus on content.
00:00.55alteregoIf you get somewhere with it I'd be happy to take on and maintain the project.
00:01.19BlueGenealterego what is this project?
00:01.43alteregoBlender 3D modeller and game SDK on maemo
00:01.53sciboyBlueGene, Just to see whether a blender ge port could work under major performance restrictions.
00:02.06raflso i got some perl ports working, but building them requires some modifications to the scratchbox environment. is that fine or do you maemo people have things link FTBFS bugs like we debian people do?
00:02.35sciboyBlueGene, So I can actually stop worrying about code and just crank out games on an easy to use engine.
00:02.38alteregorafl, what kind of modifications?
00:02.43BlueGeneI don't like this kind of applicatios, this is the problem :P
00:02.55alteregorafl, you're probably also best asking on the mailing list for something like FTBFS.
00:03.21*** join/#maemo smok (n=richard@clyne.plus.com)
00:03.24raflalterego: two symlinks in /usr and some env vars which scratchbox fucks up.
00:03.30BlueGeneI think we must port MatLab :P
00:04.01raflBlueGene: that'd be cool, indeed.
00:04.03alteregorafl, as long as it runs on the device without any odd modifications it should be fine.
00:04.24alteregoThough, you should probably submit a bug report too.
00:04.25BlueGenerafl I think MathWorks must say something about it :P
00:04.26sciboyBlueGene, If it did work I got lots of game designs I'd be happy to produce for it.
00:04.29alteregoFor the SDK.
00:04.31*** join/#maemo Jiten_ (n=blight@KMMMDCCLXV.gprs.saunalahti.fi)
00:05.19*** join/#maemo npt (n=npt@12-218-7-27.client.mchsi.com)
00:05.41raflalterego: i'm fairly sure it would as it doesn't have all those scratchbox hacks, but i really don't want to try that.
00:05.53BlueGenerafl but R or octave could be ported, it's a nice idea
00:06.08raflalterego: i don't have infinite time, you know? :-)
00:06.20alteregoYou don't want to try it on the device?
00:06.34rafldo the tablets have an fpu?
00:06.40alteregoNo
00:07.05raflalterego: right. compiling perl the way i do takes a while.
00:07.27alteregoI don't mean compile it on the device ..
00:07.28*** join/#maemo pna (n=pna@87.253.117.157)
00:07.33raflalterego: on recent laptop hardware, that is.
00:07.35alteregoI mean as long as your packages work on the device.
00:07.41rafloh..
00:07.53alteregoIt doesn't matter how you screw around with your SDK to get your package working.
00:08.18alteregoBut if it seems like there's something wrong with scratchbox or the rootstrap etc. Then you should definitely file a bug report.
00:08.49rafldoesn't that suck as you can't apt-get source and debuild?
00:09.18BlueGeneon monday I will start a mobile devices developing course in C# with visual studio 2005
00:09.22BlueGeneI'm so excited!!!
00:09.32zerojayUm...
00:09.37alteregoSounds interesting
00:09.39zerojayMost mobile devices use Java.
00:09.40pupnikare you bringing a shotgun?
00:09.41*** join/#maemo jhassine_ (n=jhassine@cs27013248.pp.htv.fi)
00:09.52raflit's mostly caused by the perl shipped with the perl devkit. i don't really know where to fix this, though.
00:10.05raflBlueGene: you fail!
00:10.14alteregoThat sounds like a scratchbox isue.
00:10.15BlueGenerafl why?!
00:10.39raflBlueGene: visual anything? come on..
00:10.47BlueGenexDDDDDD
00:10.53raflalterego: or a perl issue
00:11.12pupnikrafl: what is the problem
00:11.21raflalterego: i'd blame the former, but,i'm not entirely sure.
00:11.39BlueGenerafl you must know your enemy to hate him
00:11.40pupnikyou are missing perl things in scratchbox?
00:12.11alteregoRight
00:12.25raflpupnik: missing /bin/pwd and /usr/bin/perl and weird $PATH and $PER5LIB.
00:12.55BlueGenethin I will port mono and monodevelop to maemo platform :P
00:12.58alteregoWeird
00:13.11BlueGeneand you can develop with C# in the bath!!!!
00:13.12raflsymlinking the two paths.and sanatising those env vars fixes it.
00:13.14alteregoI think someone is already working on mono
00:13.29alteregoAnd I'd rather develop in Ruby than C#
00:13.42alteregoHell .. I'd rather develop in Python than C#
00:13.52raflyeah - i've seen several mono related maemo things.
00:13.56BlueGeneC# is the microsoft's Java :P
00:13.58pupnikmy scratchbox has /bin/pwd and /bin/perl
00:14.13alteregoBlueGene, I know, I don't like Java much either.
00:14.31BlueGenejava is so good programming language
00:14.41raflpupnik: mine didn't. freshly installed from latest packages
00:14.47alteregoI disagree.
00:14.58BlueGeneand you can compile it without bitecodes to have much more speedly applications
00:15.04*** join/#maemo Jiten (n=blight@KMMMDCCXXVIII.gprs.saunalahti.fi)
00:15.07alteregoJava could have been so much better.
00:15.14pupnikapt-cache search perl shows among others, perl-base, perl, perl-modules
00:15.15alteregoIf it had syntax like Ruby
00:15.22raflpupnik: but i can try to reproduce tomorrow if you,want me to.
00:15.26BlueGenehow?
00:15.30zerojayJava is the worst thing to put on a mobile device... made no sense.
00:15.54alteregozerojay, it makes perfect sense. It works on all the varying hardware that is around.
00:15.55raflpupnik: real packages or fake packages?
00:15.57BlueGenewhy?
00:16.03alteregoThat's one good use I can see for Java ..
00:16.06BlueGenewhen? lol
00:16.30zerojayalterego: Only because it was put on all of them.
00:16.44*** join/#maemo Gray9Mar_ (i=surf@gateway/tor/x-2e9d59f9054fbe46)
00:17.03zerojayJust about anything else would have been better on such a limited resource platform.
00:17.04alteregoThere was/is literally no better alternative for mobile handset development,
00:17.11BlueGeneI like so much Java, C# and C++
00:17.14alteregoIf you want to target the entire market.
00:17.23zerojayalterego: Java isn't the entire market.
00:17.32pupniklooks real to me rafl - I don't know what your prob is, but if you want me to run any commands i can do that for you (i.e. apt-cache show or such)
00:17.33alteregoBlueGene, then you're the opposite of me :P
00:17.54alteregozerojay, I  was exaggerating.
00:18.06BlueGenethe entire market are the users, the users do not matter what the language program you're using
00:18.09alteregoBut seriously, Java on mobile handsets is the best thing to happen to them.
00:18.29rafli have an application where it doesn't make sense to turn the display brightness down. is there an api which allows me to tell maemo not to do that?
00:18.32zerojayI do mobile development professionally.. and putting Java on cell phones was just about the worst idea anyone could have.
00:18.37alteregoI think you're missing the point BlueGene Java isn't a great language, it's not even that good.
00:18.48alteregozerojay, whatever ..
00:18.59alteregozerojay, what would you prefer?
00:19.02shackanand most ARM processors are optimized to run java bytecode natively, so it supposedly runs better than mono
00:19.06zerojayAnything else. Literally ANYTHING else.
00:19.12BlueGenealterego why Java is a goof language?
00:19.13zerojayBREW isn't bad.
00:19.15alteregozerojay, there is nothing else!
00:19.19raflpupnik: dpkg -l perl-base
00:19.24zerojayalterego: Head in the sand?
00:19.29shackanzerojay: have you ever developed on BREW ?
00:19.37zerojayshackan: Yes.
00:19.43zerojayI work for a cell phone gaming company.
00:19.48shackanomg
00:19.49zerojayJava and BREW is what we do.
00:20.15zerojayNot that BREW is all that great anyways...
00:20.32zerojayThe one and only thing Java gives us is the portability... but that's not even really true.
00:20.52shackanwell, it's not so bad if you have a company who pays for signing certificates and stuff :)
00:20.53zerojaySo many different phones have different JVMs.
00:21.02zerojayAll of them with their own bugs.
00:21.08alteregoBlueGene, it's not very flexible. Has barely any introspective (reflection) capabilities. It's not very dynamic.
00:21.09pupnikii  perl-base         5.8.3-3osso4      The Pathologically Eclectic Rubbish Lister
00:21.23shackanhahahahaha, sooo true!
00:21.40zerojayGot a Samsung that thinks a Rect with a 1 pixel border means "1 pixel border on the left and right sides and 0 border on top and bottom".
00:21.41shackanzerojay: unrelated, but do you do OpenglES stuff too ?
00:21.50zerojayshackan: Can't say we do.
00:21.52raflzerojay: my condolence
00:21.59zerojaybut we are spreading out into other areas.
00:22.05alteregoI'll give it credit, it's cleaner than C++
00:22.09zerojayWhich I can't talk about.. but I'm sure anyone could guess.
00:22.10BlueGenealterego could you explain this?
00:22.21raflpupnik: erm.. how did you create that target?
00:22.21zerojayalterego: Not really. It's also slow as shit.
00:22.25shackanzerojay: SNAP and N-Gage ? :)
00:22.30alteregozerojay, maybe on the hardware you use ..
00:22.39zerojayalterego: 500+ phones.
00:22.47alteregozerojay, exactly ..
00:22.48*** join/#maemo Quinlan^ (n=codestre@c-24-21-48-161.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
00:22.55zerojayshackan: No, think further out.
00:23.04pupnikFilename: pool/herring/main/p/perl/perl-base_5.8.3-3osso4_armel.deb
00:23.12*** join/#maemo lopz (n=gentoo-d@unaffiliated/lopz)
00:23.22shackanzerojay: I'm in deep water then...
00:23.23raflherring?
00:23.36lopzhola
00:23.50pupnikdeb http://repository.maemo.org/ herring main
00:23.52rafl_Monkey: where are you when i need you?
00:23.52_Monkeybugger all, i dunno, rafl
00:23.55BlueGenelopz hola
00:24.11pupnikrafl try repository search
00:24.14pupnikrepositories?
00:24.14lopzhey BlueGene :P
00:24.14_Monkeyrepositories is probably http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ApplicationRepositories  and a searchable index at http://www.gronmayer.com/n800/repos/index.php
00:24.19raflpupnik: what does herring stand for?
00:24.24lopzBlueGene, speak spanish ?
00:24.35BlueGenelopz que remedio, soy de Leon
00:24.36raflpupnik: some branch? something unofficial?
00:24.40zerojayThe whole idea behind Java on phones is the idea that you could take the same executable and run it anywhere. But that's not true in practice. That's why for 200 phones, we have about 120 different builds.
00:24.44alteregorafl, it doesn't _stand_ for anything it's a tag
00:24.54lopzBlueGene, ah vale, y tienes la n800 ?
00:24.59rafli see
00:25.06zerojayBREW in the US isn't very exciting, but the stuff going on in Korea with BREW is nuts.
00:25.09pupniklike gregale, mistral
00:25.10celestehthere's another idea behind java on phones, and that's the sandbox
00:25.15celestehusers can't get at thw hardware
00:25.17BlueGenelopz no, pero tu nick me suena mucho
00:25.25zerojaycelesteh: Also not true in practice.
00:25.27lopzBlueGene, mm.. por que ? xD
00:25.37BlueGeneen q canales sueles andar por el hispano?
00:25.41lopzBlueGene, entonces tienes la 770 ?
00:25.43rafli haven't seen any tagged debian repository yet.. although i'm developing denian.
00:25.48lopzBlueGene, en ninguno, solo freenode :)
00:25.52BlueGenelopz no, no tengo ninguna
00:25.52celestehtheoretically a user with C or something could break telecom laws
00:26.03BlueGenelopz y has estado metido en algun lug de linux o algo asi?
00:26.11celestehjava is such a lovely theory.  really.
00:26.34zerojayI understand the choice when it was made.. it's just too bad it didn't work out.
00:26.36BlueGenewell!! I think we have a new great flame!!!!!! ;P
00:26.46alteregoIf it was a nicer language .. It would be awesome.
00:26.58zerojayIf they all used the same JVM, it would be awesome.
00:27.21BlueGenezerojay this is impossible
00:27.28zerojayBlueGene: It is now.
00:27.34lopzBlueGene, hazme un whois y mira xD
00:27.36zerojayWasn't back when they started.
00:28.12BlueGenelopz pues sabe dios de q te conozco
00:28.15zerojayGot the LG CU920... a bit of a problem with it.
00:28.15BlueGenepero me suenas fijo
00:28.24BlueGeneyo antes usaba el nick de DHUNCAN
00:28.34zerojayIt's sort of like the iphone. No buttons.. entire screen.. software keyboard.
00:28.45zerojayProblem.. there's no way for us to use it in Java.
00:29.05zerojaySo we either write our own virtual keyboard, or abandon the phone.
00:29.13alteregoHahah
00:29.18BlueGenezerojay the same JVM but each mobile phone has its peculiarities
00:29.28zerojayBlueGene: Wrong. Not the same JVM.
00:29.39raflalterego: openssh gives me the same issue, except it just hangs for a while and doesn't just disconnect
00:29.44zerojayOtherwise, they would all leak memory like those fucking Nokia 3650/7650s do.
00:29.51lopzBlueGene, pues no lo sé, igual aqui paro siempre xD
00:29.55alteregorafl, maybe it's a server configuration issue then.
00:30.14BlueGeneaqui nos ves, midiendonos las pollas a ver q lenguaje de programacion es mejor.....
00:30.14alteregorafl, or your wireless connection is turning off after being idle for so long
00:30.20BlueGenelo q hace el aburrimiento
00:30.20alteregoCheck your connection settings.
00:30.30zerojayrafl: You can have ssh send keep alive packets.
00:30.32BlueGenelopz tu de donde eres??
00:30.41raflalterego: but my laptop, which is connected to the same host and screen session over the same route doesn't have those problems.
00:30.45lopzBlueGene, Santa Cruz, y tu ?
00:30.50BlueGeneLeon
00:31.09BlueGeneal rico frio del norte, oiga!
00:31.15alteregorafl, check the connection settings, specifically the idle timeout.
00:31.16lopzOkko_, que haces aqui ?
00:31.17BlueGeney q qrias preguntar en el canal?
00:31.25lopzBlueGene, nada, siempre entro :)
00:31.34BlueGeneyo entre hoy por primera vez
00:31.36lopzcuando tengo un problema suele preguntar, pero rar vez , y tu ?
00:31.37BlueGenese aprenden muchas cosas
00:31.48raflzerojay: it's not that i've been idle, but i'll investigate into this.
00:31.50lopzBlueGene, si, pero tienes algun cacharo con mamemo ?
00:31.52BlueGenehasta ahora solo estaba suscrio a la lista d desarollo
00:31.53lopzmaemo*
00:31.54raflalterego: it's 0
00:31.59zerojayrafl: It might help. Worth a shot.
00:32.03BlueGenelopz no pero estamos en ello
00:32.07raflalterego: i.e. turned off.
00:32.13alterego0?
00:32.19alteregoIt shouldn't go to 0
00:32.27alteregoIt should be "unlimited"
00:32.51BlueGeney tu? tienes algun trasnto de estos?
00:33.05alterego"Connection Manager" -> (menu) "tools" -> "Connectivity Settings" -> "Idle times"
00:33.44raflright. i didn't check it right now but i remembered i set it to "no idle timeout"
00:34.18lopzBlueGene, si, la n800
00:34.24lopzesta a mi lado xD
00:34.47BlueGenea mi me molaria pillar la 810 pero no se yo si se me arreglara
00:34.51BlueGenecomo pillaste la tuya?
00:35.14rafloh.. hi Fatal!
00:38.32raflis there anything i can do about a bad quality of the bui;tin camera on the n800?
00:38.48timely_changeloglower your expectations
00:38.55raflaye
00:38.56alteregoHeh
00:39.04timely_changelogwith sufficiently lowered expecations, you should not be disappointed
00:39.26raflcan i connect arbitrary devices to the usb port?
00:39.41timely_changelogas long as they're hosts
00:39.47alteregoSure, if you enable USB OTG host mode.
00:39.52raflwell.. in a way where the devices actually work..
00:40.00raflhrm..
00:40.01timely_changelogsince the n800 is considered a dummy mass storage device typically
00:40.04rafltoo bad
00:40.12alteregoDevices that need power must be powered somehow.
00:40.21raflusb keyboard would have been cool.
00:40.30timely_changelogif you don't  mind unsupported, things are possible
00:40.44timely_changelogit's only hardware+software...
00:40.48rafli actually do mind
00:41.23raflbut i'll give it a try when i have infinite time.
00:41.57alteregotime is infinite
00:42.11alteregoRelatively infinite ..
00:42.19Quinlan^Thats deep.
00:43.37raflmine isn't
00:44.28BlueGenedoes somebody knows visual paradigm?
00:45.20raflanyone running zsh on maemo?
00:45.46timely_changelogglimpseindex -R is my friend
00:45.50lopzBlueGene, la 810 ? ya hay esa ? :S
00:46.03BlueGenecomo pillaste la tuya?
00:46.50lopzme la trajeron de EEUU
00:47.55lopznoooooooooooooooo!!!
00:48.01lopzBlueGene, tio, me pillo la N810
00:48.11lopzno sabia que ya estaba a la venta xD
00:48.29celestehwow.  i knew i should have taken spanish in high school
00:48.38BlueGenelol
00:48.50timely_changelogceelesteh: personally, i regret not having taken french in high school
00:48.59timely_changelogbut, that's because i moved to europe
00:49.08alteregoHeh
00:49.11celestehheh, me too
00:49.19zerojayI was forced to learn it in high school, which meant I didn't learn it.
00:49.24raflcelesteh: shouldn't they have taken english?
00:49.40celestehi took german and i can still understand a lot of it.  but i've lived in france, the netherlands and england.  i might never get to germany
00:49.40zerojayI learned more in the last two years than I did all through school.
00:49.42timely_changelografl: having visited various european countries
00:49.47rene4jazzcan I install libboost-dev debian testing package inside maemo gregale?
00:49.52timely_changelogjust because people take English doesn't mean they can use it
00:50.10celestehenglish is one of the most difficult languages to learn.
00:50.25BlueGeneI don't think so
00:50.31rafltimely_changelog: i guess i pretty much prove your point.
00:50.31celestehit's sort of obnoxious to expect everybody else on earth to have to spend years studying may native language
00:50.40lopzBlueGene, me pillo la n810 tio, me pongo al caso :)
00:50.57BlueGenelops pues a ver de donde la sacas, xq aun no ha salido a la venta
00:51.02celestehmi lernis esperanton, sed mi forgesis tuton
00:51.17BlueGeneNobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!!!!!!!!
00:51.26celestehhahaha!
00:51.31BlueGenelopz pues a ver de donde la sacas, xq aun no ha salido a la venta
00:51.42zerojayNobody expects Japanese Herpes either.
00:51.52celestehum.  ew.
00:52.27zerojaySorry. I felt the need to match up with BlueGene's completely random sentence. ;)
00:52.42rene4jazzun minuto por favor: Can I install a debian testing package inside maemo gregale?
00:52.49timely_changelogyou succeeded
00:52.56lopzBlueGene, ni en EEUU ?
00:53.01BlueGeneno
00:53.06BlueGenemediados de noviembre
00:53.10*** join/#maemo doublec (n=doublec@203-211-92-51.ue.woosh.co.nz)
00:53.36BlueGenezerojay :P
00:53.52BlueGenerene4jazz solo sabes decir eso? :P
00:54.05lopzBlueGene, joder, espero que baje un pco el precio
00:54.10BlueGenemejor
00:54.14BlueGene480 euros xD
00:54.17rene4jazzno sé decir otras cosas, pero éso es una duda que tengo ahora ;)
00:54.31BlueGenede donde eres??
00:54.37rene4jazzcubano
00:55.08BlueGeneme ha dado clases de microsoft wpf las dos ultimas semanas un cubano llamado octavio
00:55.20timely_changelogis an email w/ only 3 letters in it "spam"?
00:55.24rene4jazznice
00:55.25lopzBlueGene, a esperar no queda mas
00:55.41zerojaytimely_changelog: Are the 3 letters "yes"?
00:55.46BlueGenerene4jazz un cachondo mental :P
00:55.47timely_changelogMsD
00:55.49raflaw.. i have a shiny device with a touchscreen now and i already start using it like any other computer.. with the commandline :-/
00:55.50BlueGenelopz pues si
00:56.02zerojaytimely_changelog: Spam.
00:56.03BlueGeneyo me piro para la cama q estoy reventado!!!!!!!!!
00:56.12BlueGeneI go to bed, I'm so tired
00:56.18*** join/#maemo aloisiojr (n=aloisio@189.70.50.111)
00:56.22BlueGenegood night to all :)
00:56.35BlueGenezerojay be careful with the Spanish Inquisition
00:56.52lopzbye BlueGene good look
00:56.59zerojayzerojay: Watch out for Antarctic assblasters.
00:58.08BlueGenelopz tu sabes lo que es un assblaster??
00:58.14zerojaylol
00:58.19BlueGenezerojay what is an assblaster??
00:58.44lopzBlueGene, no, que es ?
00:59.05raflyou'll get to know those soon enough.
00:59.07*** join/#maemo sixpence (n=sixpence@bas5-toronto63-1128541166.dsl.bell.ca)
00:59.07BlueGenecreo que algo malo, no se xq me da
00:59.10sixpenceAlright!
00:59.13sixpenceI sold my n770 and mustered up the cash for an n800
00:59.13zerojayBlueGene: Just kidding around. It's nothing, man. Sleep well.
00:59.15sixpenceNow the big question...
00:59.18sixpenceDo I buy it?!
00:59.51raflsixpence: why not an n810?
01:00.02*** join/#maemo astro76 (n=james@unaffiliated/astro76)
01:00.07sixpencerafl: I dunno maybe a TWO HUNDRED DOLLAR DIFFERENCE?!
01:00.27BlueGenezerojay I think it's something bad
01:00.54GeneralAntillesBuy.com is under $220
01:00.58raflsixpence: i wouldn't know. i have an n800 and i'm quite happy with it.
01:01.02zerojayBlueGene: It was just a stupid joke.. nothing meant against you whatsoever. Just another random two words.
01:01.07sixpenceWell.
01:01.16lopzxD
01:01.26sixpenceLooking at the n810 and n800 side by side. What's the main difference? GPS? I don't own a car. Youtube works on both.
01:01.30sixpenceBoth have a camera..
01:01.36sixpenceI don't really like the slider keyboard anyway..
01:01.40timely_changelogthe screen
01:01.45timely_changelogdo you walk around in the sun
01:01.52timely_changelogi.e. do you live somewhere outside of finland?
01:01.53doublecthe n810 is smaller too from the pics
01:01.57sixpencetimely_changelog: Nah.
01:02.02sixpenceI live in Ontario
01:02.06sixpencePlus
01:02.09timely_changelogit's slightly smaller
01:02.11sixpenceI won't be taking it outside in the Sun.
01:02.15GeneralAntillesand heavier.
01:02.17BlueGenebut you can close your window's bath, no sun then
01:02.20timely_changelogbecause they moved the menu/humb keys into the keyboard
01:02.35timely_changelogthat's actually fairly annoying ime
01:02.36rene4jazzcan I install debian testing packages inside maemo gregale?
01:02.45timely_changelogsince i really do use the menu key
01:02.45BlueGeneuno que se va pra la cama
01:02.52BlueGenerene4jazz creo q tienes algo en el wiki de maemo
01:03.04BlueGeneale, un besin
01:03.10BlueGenezerojay night :)
01:03.12timely_changeloganyway, if you don't need the screen or the keyboard, get the n800
01:03.20rene4jazzok, lo voy a buscar
01:03.27BlueGenelopz nos vemos....
01:03.30timely_changelogand flash w/ itos2008 when it arrives
01:03.34lopzadiós BlueGene
01:03.42raflisn't the nseries intended to be used,in baths only anyway?
01:03.45timely_changeloghi doublce
01:03.45lopzBlueGene, me dejaste con la n810 xD
01:03.47timely_changelogblah
01:03.50doublechi timely_changelog
01:03.56BlueGenejodete xD
01:04.00doublechehe
01:04.04BlueGeneq yo no tengo ni una ni otra
01:04.08timely_changelogtonight i hope to finish this changelog
01:04.14timely_changelogit's haunted me for over a week
01:04.27timely_changelogi think i've decided to move all the negatives into bugs though :)
01:04.35timely_changelogmuch better than in a changelog
01:04.41timely_changelogoh
01:04.48BlueGenebye bye....
01:04.52timely_changelogdoublec: fwiw, there's a sardine xref up
01:04.52lopzBlueGene, pero yo ahora la quiero pues
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01:05.16zerojaytimely_changelog: The weird first attempt at scrolling bug brings you back to the top of the page is fixed?
01:06.07timely_changelogzerojay: i believe we properly resolve bugs in bugs.maemo when we fix them
01:06.17timely_changelogso if you were a good boy and filed it :)
01:06.24timely_changelog.. you wouldn't have to ask me :)
01:06.30raflhow much traffic do the -users and -devel lists have?
01:06.57timely_changelogenough that i refuse to subscribe to either :)
01:07.10timely_changelogdoublec: of course, browser is http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/source/browser/
01:07.11zerojayI'll look.. but there's a lot of bugs that are actually fixed that don't get marked as fixed in Bugzilla or not until much later.
01:07.18timely_changelogso you have both :)
01:07.20rafltimely_changelog: what are you changelogging for?
01:07.36timely_changelografl: microb of course
01:08.05timely_changelogzerojay: if you want to look through my latest incomplete draft...
01:08.13zerojaytimely_changelog: Sure.
01:08.32rafltimely_changelog: where from should i know? usung maemo for just a few days now..
01:09.27timely_changelog_monkey timely?
01:09.27_Monkeytimely_changelog: i don't know
01:09.36timely_changelog_monkey timeless?
01:09.37_Monkeybugger all, i dunno, timely_changelog
01:09.46timely_changeloguseless bot
01:09.51zerojaylol
01:09.58timely_changeloghttp://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/4/
01:10.05timely_changelogis the beta changelog for reference
01:10.16timely_changeloghe changelog is a delta agains the release there
01:10.28timely_changelogand as you can see, my 't' key does't really work
01:10.41timely_changelogso if you see 'wo' i's probably a typo for 2
01:11.14timely_changeloghe stuff in <pre> isn' done yet
01:11.46timely_changelogwhich name?
01:11.47zerojayLooks like a good list to me.
01:12.07rene4jazzBlueGene: do you have the maemo wiki link?, I search for it, and did not find anything about installing debian packages
01:12.15raflalthough ~8mb aren't too micro.
01:12.24rafltimely_changelog: microb.
01:12.25_Monkeymicrob is the nokia sponsored gtk2-cairo hack of gecko for use by /usr/bin/browser via eal on n800 (4.2007)
01:13.01rafl_Monkey--
01:13.01_Monkeyrafl: i'm not following you...
01:13.19raflthought so
01:14.07timely_changelog_monkey: _monkey-- is <reply> ~nobody likes me, everybody hates me, ...~
01:14.12timely_changelog_monkey--
01:14.12_Monkeytimely_changelog: what?
01:14.16timely_changelogbah
01:14.54rafl_Monkey-- # again
01:14.54_Monkeyrafl: i'm not following you...
01:30.59rafldammit.. this n800 is too slow to play my favourite video podcast :-/
01:31.32sixpenceHow is youtube on the n800?
01:33.09rafli'll give it a try.
01:35.23zerojayWorks well enough for me usually.. just slightly lower framerate.. probably will be better in IT2008 though with the bump up in speed.
01:35.30raflnot all that good
01:36.06pupnikthoughtfix showed youtube on the N810 - it was better
01:36.35pupnikbut a youtube frontend that downloads and launches mplayer will always be smooth
01:37.01raflzerojay: hows the os involved in youtube speed? better flash plugin? faster browser? less overall overhead?
01:37.28timely_changelografl: "os" is sorta a useless term
01:37.44timely_changelogbetween ios2007 and itos2008, the clock speed changed
01:37.44rafltimely_changelog: i agree
01:37.53timely_changelogin 2007 i was always fixed at less than max
01:37.55zerojayrafl: The N800 is underclocked to 330mhz.. and supposedly will be allowed to run fullspeed in IT2008 because of improved power management.
01:38.08timely_changelogin 2008, it's variable, and will change dynamically, up to full speed
01:38.08zerojay400mhz, I believe.
01:38.15rafli see
01:38.15timely_changelogyes
01:38.24raflthat sounds good
01:38.31zerojaySame thing Sony did with the PSP.
01:38.39timely_changelogwell, it really depends
01:38.53raflwhy isn't it available for the n800 already?
01:39.13timely_changeloghey're still rying to pick the final flash image for the release
01:39.14zerojayBecause it's probably in the final stages of testing/approval.
01:39.17pupnikGeneralAntilles: your post on N900 features should be gospel :) http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=87569&postcount=6
01:39.20raflthought it would be shipped on the n810 already
01:39.27timely_changelogmy mailbox lists 2 official final images for itos2008
01:39.31zerojayrafl: It will be.
01:39.38rafli see
01:39.39timely_changelogthere's supposed o be only one <g>
01:39.42GeneralAntillesHa, thanks, pupnik. :)
01:39.49timely_changelogplease don't ask me how they managed to do hat
01:40.01timely_changelogor when they expect to finalize it
01:40.13timely_changelogi'm pretty sure they're overdue :)
01:40.38timely_changelogfwiw, browser team actually does care, but not because there are browser bugs we could get fixed (we can't)
01:40.47timely_changelogand not between the two images in question (They don't help us)
01:40.58timely_changelogbut because there are bugs in media player that we wan fixed
01:41.06zerojayGood.
01:41.09timely_changelog(for which fixes seem in hand, but not yet in candidate images)
01:41.16timely_changelogwhich means i really don't care
01:41.18zerojayI know I saw four of my media player bugs fixed a few days ago.
01:41.32timely_changelogwow
01:41.49zerojayA nice surprise to wake up to.
01:42.24timely_changelogzerojay: speaking of which
01:42.47timely_changelogif you could help out by setting targetmilestones to 4.0 (or whichever makes sense) on FIXED bugs, that'd be great :)
01:43.46zerojaytimely_changelog: Sure, but I don't think I have the ability to do so. Let me check.
01:44.54zerojayAh, indeed I do.
01:45.08zerojaytimely_changelog: Change it to 4.0 on newly fixed bugs then?
01:45.09_Monkeyzerojay: that doesn't look right
01:45.12zerojayThe four I mentioned?
01:45.14timely_changelogyes
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01:45.37timely_changelogas long as they indicae it'll be fixed for 2008 and not some service release
01:46.00zerojayOkay.
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02:06.31Rask330Hm.  The N800's not too hot on the youtube videos.  :<
02:07.46pupnikthe power of our thumbs will compel you
02:08.04Rask330Thumbs?
02:08.28GeneralAntillesHa
02:08.43pupnik(buttons for both thumbs)
02:09.20pupnikRask330: i think there are media players for the tablet that download vids then play them in mplayer
02:09.42Rask330Hm.  Can you link me? :o
02:09.55pupniki forgot - is it ukmp/
02:10.15GeneralAntillesIt's not UKMP, but it's from the same people/person.
02:11.18pupnikhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i26UXJOTkTk GeneralAntilles
02:11.29pupnikthumb want
02:11.36GeneralAntillesYeah, just saw that on ITT.
02:11.39GeneralAntilleslooks cool.
02:11.58pupnikthumb *will* get
02:12.01GeneralAntillesI think it's probably a little big to be realistically put into an IT.
02:12.29pupnikthere are smaller versions too
02:12.33pupnikbut that's the basic idea
02:12.43GeneralAntillesMake for a cool scrolling system.
02:13.02GeneralAntillesHehe, IT = new N-Gage
02:13.05GeneralAntillesI like the idea.
02:13.54pupniki'm betting it won't happen though.  so the other option is the craigulator, and putting pda-apps on it
02:15.08pupnikcraigulator will probably get openembedded.  Will have all the controls i want, and be omap 3430 + GL
02:16.20pupnikthe tablets will probably not want to go with buttons on both sides, for marketing/image reasons
02:16.45GeneralAntillesWhich is stupid
02:16.48GeneralAntillesand too bad
02:16.53pupniki dunno...
02:17.14pupniki can imagine a lot of people with money, who won't like a device with buttons for both thumbs
02:17.24GeneralAntillesI buy devices for what they do and how functional they are, not for image. :\
02:19.06GeneralAntillesbuttons for both thumbs . . . makes me think of thumbboards and laugh.
02:22.58pupnikWell at least nokia did a great thing and gave us the N810 - a different hardware layout for the N800
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03:04.30sixpenceSo how do you all think the n800 will handle the os 2008?"
03:05.06timely_changelogsince it's equivalen to the n810 wrt hardware, about as well as the n810
03:05.36sixpenceReally?
03:05.42sixpenceThe processor and ram is exactly equivilent?
03:05.50timely_changelogprocessor is
03:05.53sixpenceSo does that mean youtube becomming more smooth is software and NOT hardware?
03:06.18timely_changelog*shrug*, i work on the web browser
03:06.51zerojaysixpence: First, as far as I know, Flash has been updated to the latest beta.
03:06.52timely_changelogand "more smooth" in the vague context of "some extremely complicated and highly ambiguous web application" is at best hard to quantify
03:07.27zerojaysixpence: Second, the tablets will allow dynamically changing the clock speed higher for more intensive applications and stuff.
03:07.36zerojayI'd imagine flash would be able to take advantage of that.
03:08.09timely_changelogthe platform does it automaically, flash doesn't have any influence (or shouldn't)
03:09.11sixpencezerojay: On BOTh tablets.
03:09.58zerojaysixpence: Both tablets use the same firmware and are virtually the same to the kernel. If it sees GPS when it boots, it'll load the GPS kernel module.. if not, it's ignored.
03:10.14zerojayIf the modules are not built into the kernel, that is.
03:10.44sixpencezerojay: Alright. I got it. :d
03:18.46zerojayA lot of people don't realize that the N810 isn't really meant to be an upgrade like the N800 was to the 770.. but more of a consumer mainstream friendly version of the N800.
03:19.34pupnikAn alternative form factor
03:19.54zerojayYep.
03:21.29pupnikFor maemo to take off, i think we need a diverse set of portables running the ITOS
03:21.38pupnikFrom different manufacturers even
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04:42.32cesmananyone using gmyth and maemomyth around?
04:42.40sparris there a good forum for maemo users?
04:42.50cesmansparr: internettablettalk.com
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05:04.55sparrok, maybe someone will buy my 770s
05:06.19zoranit could serve you fine for years
05:06.31sparrside-grading back to a gp2x soon
05:06.52sparrim mostly a gamer, and since the new gp2x has a touch screen it can fill my small PIM needs too
05:06.57zoranyou could consider 770 as full grade pc
05:07.42sparrhttp://sparrsstuff.com/maemo  <--  its not like i am unaware of what it can do :-p
05:08.21zoranI wasn't aware of gp2x, have to admit
05:08.58lopzbye
05:09.00sparrhad one before my 770.  got stolen  :(
05:09.07sparrsome jackass thought it was a PSP, had it in a PSP case
05:09.11sparrwont make that mistake again
05:09.12zoranhow much it costs?
05:10.27sparrabout $180
05:10.56zorannot so much
05:11.06zoranit could kill n810
05:11.24sparrnah
05:11.26sparrno wifi
05:11.27sparrno keyboard
05:11.36sparrno [large] built in storage
05:11.37macluvjaygp2x only playstation?
05:11.37zorancommand line?
05:11.39sparrno package manager
05:11.46sparrmacluvjay: huh?
05:11.47zoranah
05:11.58macluvjayi want nes emu
05:12.00zorank, looks similar to 770/800
05:12.09sparrgp2x has a great NES emulator.  ditto SNES.  crappy PSX emulator
05:12.26macluvjayawesome thanks
05:12.39sparrnokia could make a killing with a game device based on maemo...  real d-pad, shoulder buttons and right side buttons, it would rock
05:12.50sparrbut it wouldnt be as fast as the gp2x
05:12.52macluvjaywhere can i get?
05:13.01sparrgp2x has two ~250MHz ARM cores
05:13.04zoranthe first result on google
05:13.12sparrmacluvjay: http://wiki.gp2x.org/wiki/Where_to_Buy%3F
05:13.30sparrfirst google result is probably gp2x.co.uk, not the cheapest or fastest place to order from unless you live in the UK
05:13.31macluvjaytakes me to the archive index
05:13.46sparrhttp://wiki.gp2x.org/wiki/Where_to_Buy
05:14.04sparrthe gp2x is designed for gaming, with PIM as an afterthought.  the opposite of maemo.
05:14.06zoransparr, I see 800/810 as play on device
05:14.22macluvjayah
05:14.28sparrzoran: without a real d-pad its mostly impossible to play most real action/arcade games for more than a few minutes
05:14.48zoran-hm, not a fan of gaming
05:15.04macluvjaywas hoping for a small emu for the 800
05:15.04cesmansparr: I wouldn't say it is the opposite for maemo
05:15.13cesmanthe ITs aren't PIM devices
05:15.20sparrgp2x doesnt [normally] run X11 like maemo does, they have their own light weight GUI that shuts down when you run a game.  the games tend to be very low level as well, often written with large chunks in asm, manipulating the device hardware directly instead of using high level stuff
05:15.34sparrcesman: i know, but the gp2x is also not an internet tablet
05:15.37zoranfor those $180 it plays mp3 and shoes video, if I see it correctly
05:15.40cesmansparr: I think the perfect portable would be a combination of the N8xx and a GP2X
05:15.47sparryes, it plays mp3 and shows video
05:15.49zoran*shows
05:16.17sparrcesman: i have thought that for a long time, with influences from the NDS and PSP and Mylo as well
05:16.31zoransparr, a lot of folks want just that
05:16.34sparrcesman: somewhere in N-space, there is an imaginary handheld with all the great features of all those platforms...  but no one makes it  :(
05:16.51sparrzoran: QVGA isnt as good for video as the 770/8xx
05:16.55zoranconmpaq has fine line of ipaqs
05:17.17zoransparr, you are correct
05:17.35sparr"the" gp2x software archive: http://archive.gp2x.de/cgi-bin/cfiles.cgi
05:18.03sparrshould see a major influx of new stuff once the new model hits the streets, with a touch screen.
05:18.15sparrtouch screen opens up a lot of options for non-gaming apps, and for non-action games
05:18.23cesmansparr: there is a new gp in the works?!
05:18.51zoranit reminds me of what people want from new phone model: good camera, video, music, organizer...; no phone usage?
05:19.44sparrcesman: yes, gp2x F200.  its the MK2 with a touch screen and a d-pad
05:19.54cesmangot a link?
05:19.56sparrcesman: and not "in the works"...  it shipped to distributors this week.
05:20.11sparrhttp://www.google.com/search?q=gp2x+f200 :)
05:20.21cesman:)
05:20.22cesmanjust did
05:20.23zoransomeone knows what is going on with 2600.net?
05:20.47sparrhttp://gp2x.co.uk/
05:21.29sparrother than those two things, and a slot for the stylus, its supposed to be functionally identical to the F100, and perfectly software compatible.
05:21.49sparrlots of devs are doubtful about the "perfectly" part, odds are some hardware addresses have changed that they didnt bother to document, but thats small change
05:23.41sparrthe gp2x is an excellent platform for very low level development.  if i ever get off my ass and do something original, instead of crappy ports (i ported enigma, mostly), it will be a good item for my portfolio trying to find a game development job
05:24.22sparrgp2x restarted my interest in very low level programming
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05:49.01niosopFigure you might be getting this alot, but anyone gotten python installed on latest revision for the n800?
05:49.28zerojayYes.
05:50.01niosopany hints?  Keep getting dependancy errors w/ libsdl-ttf and a couple others
05:50.27zerojayEr.. that's odd.
05:50.38zerojayNever had those issues.
05:50.39zoranchange fonts?
05:50.39_Monkeyzoran: that doesn't look right
05:50.48zerojayInstalled perfectly fine in blue pill mode.
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05:51.20niosopIt installed fine for me earlier today, but after reflashing to latest version, it doesn't anymore  :(
05:51.41zorannew os version?
05:52.08niosopnod, 4.2007.38-2
05:52.19zerojayThat's a month or so old now.
05:52.25timeless38 isn't a new version anyway
05:52.35timelessit's the same as he previous version w/ a kernel fix
05:52.52niosopnod.  That's why I didn't get why it would cause dependancy problems.
05:52.56zoranI meant, is it different from the previous?
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06:39.47keesjzoran: how about wifi and bleutooth , ain't that handy?
06:40.04zorankeesj, remind me, please
06:40.24keesjthe gp2x does not have such connectivity right?
06:40.44zoransupose so; don't have the gadget
06:41.03zoransparr is the guy with that dude
06:41.20keesjI think that the 770 + wii controller should beat the gp2x anyday anytime
06:41.36zoranI like my 770 as all round box
06:42.31zoranbut I think it as real computer, with linux as method
06:42.52sparrgp2x does not have built in wifi or bluetooth
06:43.50zoranI read phone reviews now and found it close to any pc already
06:44.11sparrbut the gp2x has more processing power than the 770
06:45.03keesjtwo cpu's but not really used right?
06:45.34sparrthe core OS uses one.  the other is used by some stock apps, some homebrew apps.
06:45.44sparrthere are libraries to do math and 2d and 3d graphics on the second cpu
06:46.07keesjnice, I did not know that
06:46.09sparrthe built in media player uses both, so it can decode more compressed video than the 770
06:47.22zoranI see people on the bus playing fabulous games on their phones; some phones are the size of medium brick
06:48.35zoranI recall people in flight, using laptops for some basic game, that children almost have it on the wrist watch
06:50.46sparryeah
06:51.04sparrim happy with SNES emulation on the gp2x.  that alone is enough gaming to last a lifetime
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06:51.27sparrthe homebrew and such is just icing on the cake
06:52.04zoransparr, what is snes?
06:52.37sparrsuper nintendo entertainment system
06:52.41zoran:)
06:52.46sparrnintendo's 16 bit console, circa 1990
06:53.10zoranmy cousin likes game emulators on his xp, for old spwctrum amiga etc
06:53.29sparrthere are emulators for almost every old console for the gp2x
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06:53.44sparrhttp://archive.gp2x.de/cgi-bin/cfiles.cgi?0,0,0,0,5
06:54.02zoranI recall of the game called "elite", about space traders and more
06:54.20sparrelite, elite 2, elite plus.  if you liked elite and have a PC, try oolite
06:54.42zoranhm, not so interested, but liked it that days
06:54.48sparrand if you like MMO games, there is Jumpgate (out of business?) and Earth and Beyond and EVE Online
06:55.08zerojayA version of Elite for the NES was finished but never was produced... the programmers released a free ROM if you're interested.
06:55.33zoranI like another kind of stuff now
06:56.21sparrzerojay: im sure i already have it...  years ago i took the time to download every ROM of every game for every console up to the SNES  :)
06:56.41zerojaysparr: There's always new dumps.
06:56.50sparrsure, but odds are i wont be looking for them
06:57.18zoransparr could build a library of games and ask nokai to fund it
06:57.51sparrhttp://rafb.net/p/nIkH8I80.html
06:58.18zerojayI've got a huge rom collection as well.
06:58.20zorangames and video and music feed all those devices like phones, 770/800, all kind of players
06:58.41zerojayGot you beat.
06:58.59sparrat some point there are diminishing returns
06:59.03sparri wasnt really trying to set a record
06:59.09zerojayMe either.
06:59.18zerojayI just want everything I could possibly want to play.
06:59.22sparrjust trying to reach the "i probably wont have to hunt for a ROM for [insert game here] next year when i want to play it" point
06:59.27zerojayFull MAME set, full PS1 set..
06:59.42sparrPS1 is a little more disk space than i want to dedicate
06:59.49zerojayUnderstandably.
06:59.53sparrMAME is on my to-do list
07:00.01zerojayFull US set, ~390GB.
07:00.32zoranor nas as game server?
07:00.38sparrzoran: that too
07:01.03zerojayzoran: I've got my PC set up for playing games locally but also serving by Samba to two Xboxes.
07:01.04zoranyou could hae all games on the storage and call them from emulator, not having it all around at your box
07:02.05zoranif emu supports net protocol
07:02.21zerojayUnfortunately, not all do.
07:02.50zoranI saw one linksys nas device for about $70 and space for 2 usb hdd
07:03.06zerojayNSLU-2.
07:03.10zoranyes
07:03.20zerojayI wanted one of those for a while.
07:03.21zorannot sure ifit is fast enough
07:03.28zoranme too
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07:04.12zoranthere is newer one, but does not look so fine as nslu2
07:04.36zerojayLinksys?
07:04.40zoranyep
07:04.45zorancannot recall the name
07:04.50zorangonna google
07:05.29zorannas200
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07:17.35pupniksparr: awesome pic http://sparrsstuff.com/gallery2/d/6656-2/img_3088.jpg?g2_GALLERYSID=e4842c01406e6bea705c5446938f73c8
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07:22.04pupnikAnybody want to work on porting arm-optimized SNES emulator to 770/N800?
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07:35.31czrleg-optimized might be better
07:35.41czrI'd like to work on it, but no spare time sadly :-(
07:51.41pupnikneato - java http://alexander.lash.googlepages.com/n800n770work
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08:19.27JaffaMorning, all
08:21.07sparrpupnik: so many different varieties of ARM, and most optimizations arent so much for the CPU as for the supporting hardware
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08:24.39pupnikAnd the number of hours you have spent learning SNES emulation = ?
08:26.19pupnikSorry - anyway i don't think that's right.
08:27.56pupnikBig gains are achieved with ARM ASM rewrites of cores and ppu
08:29.10pupnikblitting to screen and sound output should be efficient, but only becomes a real issue at > 10fps
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08:47.04sparrlearning?
08:47.08sparrnot sure what you mean
08:47.36sparrmost good SNES emulators on weak hardware make very specific use of the hardware for things like sprite and tile blitting
08:48.05sparrsure, someone could write an uber all-ARM-asm implementation of that, but it would be crap compared to an emulator optimized for a specific platform
08:48.38sparrand it would still only run on a particular subset of ARM chips.  ARM 5?  ARM 7?  ARM 9?  with or without THUMB?  with or without the FPU?
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10:12.22sp3000guess what doesn't have the right time this morning
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10:21.44Jaffasp3000: European clocks went back last night.
10:22.03sp3000right.
10:22.50sp3000everything else handled it
10:23.29sp3000oh maybe everything else has the wrong time. hmm.
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10:24.22JaffaIt's currently 10:24 GMT/UTC
10:27.36sp3000well doh is me
10:28.56sp3000so everything else is wrong, instead :)
10:29.04sp3000that's ...a kind of encouraging
10:30.49sp3000that's what you get when you're not up at 3am with your machines to see them cope with a dst switch with hwclock set to local
10:31.13sp3000time sucks
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11:46.45crazyjimhi there.....
11:46.56crazyjimreal noob needs some help from a wise one
11:47.10pupniksparr: ok Granted, I should have specified that the ARM-optimized SNES emus  use ARM7 / ARM9 instructino sets.  Beyond that, no target-hardware-specific acceleration has been implemented in any of them.  No emulator offloads sound emulation onto a dsp.  No emulator implements SNES PPU (pixel processing unit) acceleration using target-hardwar gpu acceleration (compositing/sprites).
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11:47.46pupnikjo crazyjim
11:47.51crazyjimhi
11:47.51_Monkeywhat's up, crazyjim
11:48.10crazyjimummmm well I got a cheap nokia 770
11:48.21crazyjimand I have put some apps and games on it
11:48.28pupnikI have an expensive one :|
11:48.36crazyjimi need a good browser as I am having issues with some sites
11:48.43pupnikmicrob?
11:48.44_Monkeymicrob is the nokia sponsored gtk2-cairo hack of gecko for use by /usr/bin/browser via eal on n800 (4.2007)
11:48.59pupnikminimo?
11:48.59_Monkeyminimo is (Mini Mozilla) Web browser, a slimmed down version of mozilla browser aiming resource reduced devices. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/minimo/
11:49.02crazyjimcan i run minimo  .2?
11:49.46crazyjimor is it just minimo_0.16.8-2
11:50.03crazyjimi did install that but found it would crash or disapear
11:50.06pupnikdunno - i just use opera and avoid nasty sites
11:50.34crazyjimits sites with applets and clever stuff
11:51.17pupnikhttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9125&highlight=microb
11:52.20crazyjimi will have a read
11:52.34crazyjimis there anything real cool to run on your 770?
11:52.41crazyjimlike the best thing ever??
11:53.07GeneralAntillesScummVM
11:53.08_MonkeyScummVM is a program which allows you to run certain classic graphical point-and-click adventure games, provided you already have their data files. http://770.fs-security.com/scummvm/
11:53.12GeneralAntillesor bash
11:53.17GeneralAntillesdepending on your slash
11:53.19GeneralAntilleswell . . . ash
11:53.23GeneralAntilles*slant
11:54.32crazyjimthats cool... really want to get some goof flash games going but no joy
11:54.40crazyjimsummit like swords and sandals
11:55.01pupnikthe flash games are awful slow, unique311 put together a flash games package you can download
11:55.16pupnikbut most of them suck on 770
11:55.45pupnikyou have mplayer?  that's a great movie player.
11:56.20sbzthe best :)
11:57.03crazyjimyeah I have that
11:57.13crazyjimwhat sort of res do you convert the film too?
11:57.30crazyjim352x288?
11:57.40pupnik400x240 - do not exceed 240 in height
11:57.47pupnikmediaconverter?
11:57.48_Monkeyi heard mediaconverter was a frontend to mencoder which transcodes videos to a 770 or N800 optimized format.  Get it here: http://mediaconverter.garage.maemo.org/
12:03.20crazyjimsite wont load :(
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12:05.02pupnikgarage looks down
12:06.26pupnikhttp://www.bleb.org/software/770/770-encode.pl  there's the command line version
12:06.29pupnik770-encode?
12:06.30_Monkeyhmmm... 770-encode is a perl script to transcode video to 770/N800 friendly format.  Get it at http://www.bleb.org/software/770/#encode   A java GUI version for win/OSX/linux can be found at http://mediaconverter.garage.maemo.org  and an alternative shellscript transcoder can be found at http://www.modeemi.fi/~cosmo/projects/encode770/
12:09.52zeenixunfortunately, it will continue to be so for another month or two
12:10.41Dasajevfor about six months :)
12:11.05suihkulokkizeenix: that's why we invented sauna
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12:18.58zeenixDasajev: wrong
12:19.05zeenixDasajev: it's much better when there is snow
12:19.18Dasajevif there is
12:19.34zeenixsuihkulokki: no! you invented sauna because you people like to be naked :)
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12:26.43crazyjimmy 770 fails to update rge package list and has not done so for 2 months.... anyone else had that issue ever
12:30.45Robot101zeenix: is it Cold(tm) now?
12:31.48zeenixRobot101: not so cold but dark
12:32.20Robot101zeenix: did your clocks change today?
12:36.52zeenixRobot101: yup
12:37.47Robot101phew, could have got confusing otherwise :)
12:37.54crazyjimwhen you convert a full film (700mb avi) what sort of size is it for Nokia 770?
12:38.24zeenixRobot101: ?
12:38.43Robot101I think the US didn't change yet? or does that only happen in spring?
12:39.22GeneralAntilles~600-700MB, crazyjim
12:40.36crazyjimreally?
12:40.41crazyjimthats massive!
12:41.31crazyjimits half the resolution so i was thing 350/
12:41.53crazyjim*thinking
12:42.39GeneralAntillesHalf the resolution, same bitrate, basically.
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12:47.17crazyjimwhere can i get the convertion software from as the garage site is down
12:48.12GeneralAntillesDunno, but you can just use your favorite video conversion software
12:48.21crazyjimlol....
12:48.30crazyjim240 max height?
12:49.11GeneralAntillesMPEG4 video, MP3 audio, 1000-1500Kbps 20-30fps, 400x240 (400x*** for widescreen and 320x240 for 4:3)
12:49.30zeenixRobot101: when is UK joining the schengen? i want to visit there for a weekend but tooo lazy to go through the visa process :(
12:50.55Robot101zeenix: it's we're not that likely to any time soon as far as I know, something to do with not really trusting the rest of europe to do good enough imigration control :P
12:51.12Robot101s/it's //
12:51.30GeneralAntillesand who could blame you?
12:51.35GeneralAntillesJust look at France. :\
12:52.59zeenixGeneralAntilles: what about france?
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13:02.18alteregolibsmbclient .. Interesting.
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13:22.03JaffaApparently the Bunsfield Oil Depot fire destroyed the computer system which was handling the details of Britain joining Schengen, so now it's not happening.
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13:24.19alteregoHahah
13:25.06JaffaIt's little far-fetched, then you think about other Governmental computer systems...
13:25.54alteregoYeah
13:26.05alteregoLike the farse with the NHS last year
13:26.10raflwtf.. apt-get update doesn't say there was an error but still returns != 0 and tells me to run it again to to correct the problem. what might be happening here?
13:26.36raflhave you guys branched apt for maemo?
13:26.58alteregoNot as far as I know rafl.
13:27.05alteregoWhat does apt actually say?
13:27.12alteregoapt-get install -f ?
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13:28.24raflthe dpkg database is consistent, so -f install doesn't do anything.
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13:29.26raflupdate just gives a few warnings wrt archive keys and then just fails.
13:33.14pupnikhttp://205.243.100.155/frames/shrinkergallery.html  coin shrinking
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13:37.59raflis the automatic onscreen keyboard completion hackable somehow?
13:38.48raflwill os2008 reduce batterylife as it's not underclocking anymore?
13:39.28Jitenrafl: it'll be underclocking more ... most of the time.
13:39.30alteregorafl, it shouldn't.
13:39.51alteregoThe frequency scaling and power saving is very good in the tablets.
13:41.17raflso basically better powermanagement which allows the cpu to run at higher frequencies when needed?
13:41.21raflcool..
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13:44.50p|re
13:45.19p|if i format my mmc2 in ext2 format, after boot how to reload the ext2 module automatically ?
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14:09.00raflhow about an init script?
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14:12.14rafluh.. garage refuses to work :-/
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14:31.44p|mmm
14:32.11p|after latest firmare i'm unable to load ext2 module...
14:32.25zorandevice/os?
14:32.43p|it report "Unknown symbol in module (-1):no such file o directory
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14:33.14p|n800/2007.38.2
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14:33.27zorando you have ext2.ko in current?
14:33.30p|no
14:33.34zoranah!
14:33.58zoranext3?
14:34.08p|'/mnt/initfs/lib/modules/2.6.18ecc....
14:34.20zoranlist it
14:34.20p|i have not current
14:34.24p|dunno why
14:34.35zoranwhat is in 2.6.18... ?
14:35.19L0c-[N800]insmod /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/2.6.18-omap1/ext2.ko
14:36.03zoranyou read my minds
14:36.50L0c-[N800]ext2 and 3 modules does exists
14:37.35L0c-[N800]also bnep module is gone, so no PAN connections...
14:37.55zoranloading manualy would give the answer
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14:39.31zpolhola
14:39.31_Monkeybonjour, zpol
14:40.00DRoBeRHola, zpol .
14:40.12L0c-[N800]ciao   zpol
14:40.13zoran_Monkey speaks even swiss language
14:40.13_Monkeyzoran: i'm not following you...
14:40.40zoran_Monkey got R2D2 extension
14:40.40_Monkeyzoran: what?
14:40.59zpolheya L0c-[N800] DRoBeR
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14:46.35raflcan i adjust the onscreen keyboards size?
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14:48.13alteregoWhy would you want to?
14:50.52raflbecause i prefer to see more of the actual application.
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15:02.38JaffaFor those who haven't seen mediaserv in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBmU_I_FlXc
15:05.10pupnikvery fast startup time
15:05.20pupnikis that family guy thing transcoded?
15:05.52flip^anyone wanna buy me a n810...
15:06.06GeneralAntillesYeah, mediaserv is wonderfully fantastic. :)
15:06.07JaffaThe source is DVD rip at 720x576 at ~1000kbps video bitrate and 192kbps audio on a 1GHz VIA C3 processor.
15:07.00sparrJaffa: fulls creen would be nice
15:07.29JaffaPress the full screen key: it's the standard media player (or mplayer, depending on how you've configured your web browser and/or Video Center)
15:08.24pupniki don't see how it starts the transcoding so fast.  must have a small buffer on the server side.
15:08.55JaffaBuffer size is configurable, defaults to 2 seconds.
15:09.30JaffaThat's 770-encode's "average" preset too.
15:10.07raflhrm.. mediaserv <3
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15:17.03rafli wonder how hard it would be to set up a crosscompilation environment without scratchbox. it's constantly biting me..
15:19.21raflLD_PRELOAD, LD_LIBRARY_PATH, PATH, ... it's just insane :-/
15:20.07pupniki never mess with default scratchbox ld environment
15:20.17raflesp. that libresolv hack bugs me.
15:21.08raflwell.. i'd like to not mess with it, but i want my things to be ported..
15:21.57rafli wonder if sb2 would be better. at least it sounds less insane.
15:22.10pupniki just mentioned this because it might be informative to know that pupnik does not need to mess with these things to compile many programs
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15:22.47suihkulokkirafl: sb1 "works" for current stuff, so nobody bothers working on sb2 rulesets
15:23.24rafli got your point, but my apps seem to have weird build systems
15:23.37suihkulokkiwhat apps?
15:23.37_Monkeyapps are small
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15:23.57suihkulokkifuck _Monkey
15:24.03rafllike things depending on perl.
15:24.41suihkulokkithat's tricky
15:24.54suihkulokkiyou really want to use host perl for most stuff
15:25.16suihkulokkiso it needs to be figured out when you actually need the target perl
15:25.25zoranperl could be life saving for development
15:25.29raflindeed. i got it working but it required lots of hacks.
15:26.02zoranwith perl and python, no need for sb
15:26.19raflzoran: eh?
15:26.35zoranit is ascii
15:26.57suihkulokkithere is still lots of perl/python modules compiled in c
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15:27.01zoranjust copy needed libs or modules from desktip
15:27.21zoransuihkulokki, correct
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15:29.32raflgetting xs (i.e. compiled) modules working wasn't that hard
15:30.27raflother apps with unflexible build systems linking against shared perl are hard.
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15:32.41raflvim, for example.
15:32.52zoran?
15:33.36zoranyou already have vi
15:34.26raflsure, I do.
15:34.34rafland I want vim with embedded perl.
15:34.39zoranah
15:37.10rafland I think I got that now
15:37.16raflthat and vim-gkt
15:37.18rafl*gtk
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15:47.17macluvjaywhatś´the secret to getting screen on the n800?
15:47.31macluvjaybah, silly bt keyboard
15:47.55macluvjaylooks like it requires debconf, but we only get fakedebconf
15:47.59zoranscreen for more then one shell?
15:48.09macluvjaycorrect
15:48.32zorandoes apt-get help?
15:48.46macluvjaylike I said ^
15:50.42zoranmacluvjay, I installed it on 770 with no hiss, but cannot recall deps
15:51.25raflaww.. die scratchbox! die!
15:51.32raflbuggy python wrapper around chmod :-(
15:51.47zoranbad wizard takes all
15:51.57macluvjayapt-cache show debconf only returns fakedebconf
15:52.37zoranI took bin file and just followed, what app manager asked
15:52.53sp3000macluvjay: screen from where?
15:52.55zorancould be diff for your device
15:53.11sp3000oh, nm
15:53.24macluvjayapt-get install screen returns screen: PreDepends: debconf (>= debconf 0.2.17
15:53.54*** part/#maemo rene4jazz (n=rene@WLL-40-pppoe016.t-net.net.ve)
15:54.00zorando you see it in any rep?
15:54.26sp3000oh, actually
15:54.27macluvjayin the gui application manager and apt-cache search
15:54.28sp3000macluvjay: screen from where?
15:54.56zoranApplicationCatalog2006 has it for sure
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15:55.52macluvjaythis is n800 IT2007
15:56.00sp30004.0.3-0.3osso2 from rmo/bora Pre-Depends: debconf (>= 0.5) | debconf-2.0, the latter of which is provided by fakedebconf
15:56.18sp3000which repository, rather
15:56.46macluvjayhmm, apt-cache show doesnt tell what repo?
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15:56.58cbx33hey guys
15:57.01sp3000apt-cache policy does to some extent
15:57.02zoranI see debconf in repository/maemo.org/pool
15:57.09cbx33can we mount webdav shares yet on the n800
15:57.49sp30004.0.2-5maemo3 from mg.pov.lt would seem to have more demanding predeps
15:57.58macluvjayaha!
15:58.19macluvjay4.0.2-5maemo3
15:58.46macluvjaymg.pov.lt bora/user Packages
15:59.28macluvjaysp3000: what would you suggest?
16:00.23macluvjaywhat is the repo for the 4.0.3 you listed?
16:00.25konttorihey pupnik: you around?
16:02.25sp3000oh
16:03.35sp3000macluvjay: well, 4.0.3-0.3osso2(/var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_dists_bora_free_binary-armel_Packages)
16:04.00sp3000of course that's a repository thatäs "meant to be used with the 'apt-get' tool only within the SDK environment" so go figure
16:04.56sp3000per http://repository.maemo.org/#sdk_debian, but then again http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ApplicationRepositories has no such admonishment
16:05.06sp3000in the future, this all will make sense! ...right
16:10.53amris it just me or is the garage down
16:13.07sp3000seems moderately dead yeah
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16:19.48raflwhy isn't ar available? :-(
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16:27.17macluvjaysp3000: tahnk you so much!
16:27.50sp3000amr, seems to be back fwiw
16:28.34zerojayIt went down last night too, around 1am.
16:28.37zerojay1am EST.
16:29.56playyaanyone tried to compile e for n800?
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16:32.32sp3000wasn't so much down as very slow for me
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16:38.42macluvjayplayya: rasterman has scrots on his site about having it running
16:38.55macluvjayyou probably want to speak with him
16:39.04playyaok
16:39.13playyai found a video on youtube
16:39.28macluvjayoh?
16:39.32macluvjayurl
16:40.26p|what about bnep.ko module for latest n800 firmware ?
16:40.40p|does it exists ?
16:42.47playyahttp://youtube.com/results?search_query=enlightenemnt+n800&search=Search
16:44.23raflI looked into edje on maemo as well for writing a shiny xmms2 client with it, but I must admin that I still prefer the clutter api.
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16:51.11macluvjayI like the onscreen keyboard, but tttttttthe others I wasnt so impressed with
16:51.43macluvjays/with/by/
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16:52.52macluvjaybtw, the new plankton theme is way hot
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17:31.48BlueGenehi hi hi :)
17:31.50BlueGenehola :)
17:33.55*** join/#maemo fsmw (n=Fernando@87-74-112.adsl.terra.cl)
17:34.32BlueGeneis somebody from Poland?
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18:14.52pupniki love nvi for a vi
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18:20.45lopzhola
18:22.02BlueGeneq pasa nene
18:22.42lopzBlueGene, tio, anoche me soñé con el n810 :\
18:22.53BlueGeneme q?
18:23.07lopzestoy pensando seriamente comprarme ese cacharo
18:23.14lopzBlueGene, que me he soñado
18:23.30BlueGeneno deberias
18:23.33BlueGenenadie lo recomienda
18:23.53lopzBlueGene, por que no ?
18:24.05BlueGenexq es casi lo mismo q el 800
18:24.07BlueGeneyo no lo haria
18:25.10lopzmm.. pero el GPS mola tio
18:25.17lopzpero no, creo que tienes razón, mejor me quedo con mi n800 y espero que salga otro con alguna caracterítica que valga la pena
18:25.20BlueGenesi, no te vayas a perder en esa isla tan enorma xDD
18:25.41lopzBlueGene, tu cual quieres pillarte ?
18:27.17zerojayAnyone here use Blogger?
18:27.31celestehyes
18:27.40celestehI use blogger
18:28.00zerojaycelesteh: Think you can try to reproduce my bug on Microb... https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2180
18:28.22celestehum
18:28.30celestehi need to update my os first
18:29.51BlueGenelopz yo no tengo un duro
18:30.34lopzxD
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18:55.13amrthememaker is pretty cool
18:55.23amrits going to take utterly ages to make my theme though
18:56.02zerojayamr: Why>
18:56.03zerojay?
18:56.34amri have nothing planned and i'm kind of winging it
18:56.50amratm its a plankton rip off for the 770 :P
18:56.57amrwell, the colours
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19:14.05Andy80hi
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19:24.57alteregoThumb scrollbar?
19:25.01alteregoInteresting ..
19:25.29zerojayWhere's that?
19:25.42alteregohildon-helper.h
19:26.49alteregoI'll have to look into that.
19:28.13zerojayIs it new in Chinook?
19:28.17alteregoYes
19:28.19alteregoI think so.
19:28.28alteregoThough it's not documented.
19:28.56alteregoI think it makes up for the functions that are documented that aren't actually in the SDK.
19:29.05zerojayHah.
19:29.05alteregoLike Karma ..
19:29.16zerojayKarma? What is it supposed to be?
19:29.27alteregoA natural order to things :)
19:29.46alteregoWell, it's a force that balances good and bad.
19:30.07zerojayOh, I thought you meant that Karma was a function documented in the SDK.
19:30.13alteregoHah
19:30.43alteregohildon_find_toolbar_get_last_index()
19:30.44zerojayIt would explain people saying "my tablet doesn't like me anymore".
19:30.45alteregoThat's missing.
19:31.18alteregoWhen I've finished scanning Hildon I'll send a mail with all my complaints to the mailing list ;)
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19:37.33BlueGenehi :)
19:37.43alteregoHello there.
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19:49.17tkoalterego: hildon-list, right? :)
19:49.46alterego:)
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19:55.07lopzre
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20:15.25pupnik"A child's second language should be a programming language."
20:16.06glasslearning english in current world helps a lot towards that.. at least if you intend to be serious about it
20:16.18pupnikyeah i'll change that to third
20:16.23glassthough, for learning basic english all you need is to leave around copies of leisure suit larry
20:16.34pupnikhehe
20:16.53pupnikinfocom taught me typing
20:17.14pupnikwell - it helped
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20:23.55sp3000irc!11
20:24.01sp3000...or ...not.
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20:42.36pupnikhmm 3430 claims support for 1024x768 displays.  This is 2.048 times as large as framebuffer needed for 800x480
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20:56.01pupnikhttp://www.pvr-extremist.com/default.asp#ID634  Games running on PowerVR MBX (omap2420) demoe'd at GDC Expo 2006
21:02.13pupnik<PROTECTED>
21:05.02Rask330Have any of you guys on the USA side of things managed to get AT&T to set you up with a halfway decent data plan that works with the N800?  :D
21:06.07deejoeRask330: wouldn't that depend on the phone used, too?
21:06.18Rask330Probably.
21:06.39Rask330I'm just getting a ton of inconsistent responses from their idiot sales department... X)
21:06.48deejoeah, yeah, good luck with that.
21:07.26deejoenot that I have experience with AT&T idiocy per se, just with sales departments generally.
21:08.09Rask330"Duh, you want to use your phone to download more ringtones?"
21:08.35Rask330One rep actually said, in the same call, the following:
21:08.49Rask330(1) My phone did, in fact, support use as a bluetooth networking gateway.
21:08.59Rask330(2) They didn't have any data plans that were compatible with the phone.
21:09.17Rask330(3) They could put a data plan on my phone, but it would cost thousands of dollars because it's a "manufacturer concern".
21:09.36Rask330(What a "manufacturer concern" was, they did not say.)
21:10.14Rask330One wonders why Motorola would be concerned that someone was using a data-enabled phone for data.
21:10.15pupnikUS needs europes data plans, and europe needs US's culture of open hotspots
21:10.40alteregodata plans in the UK are aweful.
21:10.43Rask330The US telecommunications industry needs to pull its head out of its arse...
21:11.00alteregoAt least they were last time I looked ^_^
21:11.24Rask330I am still amused and disgusted that they charge as much as $0.15 per text message with a straight face.
21:11.56alteregoText messaging hasn't been all that popular in America.
21:12.05Rask330Maybe it would be if it wasn't so overpriced...
21:12.23Rask330You're using a tiny fraction of the bandwidth needed for a voice call, yet they actually seem to charge more.
21:12.29alteregoWell, you can pay twice that for texts in the UK.
21:12.49alteregoAlmost twice that.
21:13.03alteregoI think I get charged 10p per text.
21:13.14pupnikin germany i see video calls and television over umts advertised
21:13.28pupnikow
21:14.01glasstelevision over umts is pretty widespread
21:14.43glassoperators like to have "mobile tv"(even if almost nobody actually watches it).. and thats the current way to deliver it
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21:27.57lautihallo?
21:29.07zerojayHello.
21:31.17lautinew on this channel...
21:31.38lautigoing to develop a upnp control point
21:31.52zerojaySounds good to me.
21:32.08lautiafter the one offensichtlich nokia is buggy and closed source
21:32.22lautigui hangs regularily...
21:32.34laution n700 at least
21:32.40lautiannoying-...
21:33.21lautiwill be here frequently asking questions ;-)
21:35.58lauticheckout http://wap-5000.wikispot.org
21:38.00alteregoN700?
21:38.03alteregoIs that a tablet>
21:39.43lautin770, sorry
21:39.59zerojayJust 770. It's not in the N series.
21:40.04alteregoAh, the Nokia 770
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21:42.15lautican anyone tell me if the canola team israelischen going to support external renderers?
21:42.34alteregoisrealischen?
21:42.50alteregoWhat's with the strange random words ..
21:43.27pupniki can translate from german if that helps
21:43.32lautishit... auto-completion of the virtual keyboard...
21:43.33MoRpHeUzpupnik: plz =)
21:43.33k-s[WORK]lauti: it's sunday, 18:42 here... were're still working on canola 2
21:43.37alteregoHah
21:43.42MoRpHeUz=)
21:43.44k-s[WORK]lauti: so, we're quite busy :-P
21:44.05MoRpHeUzlauti: anyway, what does israelischen mean ?
21:44.07alteregoIt's 21:46 here, and I'm still working on Ruby-Maemo ^_^
21:44.21k-s[WORK]:-D
21:44.34k-s[WORK]at least we're paid to do so... and it's a good amount :-P
21:44.41alteregoOh thanks.
21:44.47alteregoI'll just give up now then shall I :P
21:44.52MoRpHeUzhahaha
21:44.59pupnikmaybe a diminuitive israeli girl in lederhosen and pigtails
21:45.05k-s[WORK]alterego: it was not directed to ya!
21:45.12alterego:)
21:45.59lautiall: israelischen was a typo... the auto-completion placed it next to the spacebar
21:46.05alteregoI've got a few more classes to implement (5). Then I can look forward to a few hours of testing.
21:46.08Ryback_lol
21:46.20lautii am writing on n770 right now
21:46.22alteregoIF the tests go well. I should be able to release some chinook packages tomorrow.
21:46.49k-s[WORK]alterego: there are some bindings for EFL-Ruby
21:46.54k-s[WORK]alterego: could you take a look?
21:47.02alteregok-s[WORK], sure.
21:47.08k-s[WORK]alterego: you could try to rewrite my iphone-like vkbd in ruby!
21:47.10k-s[WORK]:-)
21:47.11alteregoI'll put it on my things to do.
21:47.28k-s[WORK]then people can write beautiful apps in ruby too
21:47.32alteregok-s[WORK], are you the indt guy that wrote that vkbd in Python then?
21:47.37k-s[WORK]yep
21:47.40k-s[WORK]:-)
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21:47.44alterego:)
21:47.58amranyone here ever used thememaker?
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21:48.10lautik-s: are you from canola team?
21:48.18k-s[WORK]cmarcelo, MoRpHeUz and Ryback_ are the (un)fortunate to work with me in the canola team
21:48.18raflk-s[WORK]++ # your edje on maemo stuff
21:48.20alteregoI'm just looking forward to getting this release out so I can start developing my own apps.
21:48.25k-s[WORK]lauti: yes
21:49.43amri'm getting a gap on my left border
21:49.46amra solid blue line
21:49.50amrand i can't seem to find where it is
21:51.01k-s[WORK]anyone will be at ELC-2007/Austria?
21:51.20k-s[WORK](from CELF)
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21:59.23lautik-s: so what about controlling external upnp renderers by canola?
22:00.31devk-s[WORK]: I'll be there
22:01.34*** join/#maemo guardian_ (n=Guardian@ANantes-252-1-103-216.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr)
22:02.34k-s[WORK]lauti: we want to, as well as a2dp
22:02.50k-s[WORK]lauti: but I'm not sure if it will be available in this first try
22:03.08k-s[WORK]lauti: however this release will keep living after it's released
22:03.22k-s[WORK]lauti: unlike previous version :-P
22:03.53k-s[WORK]lauti: and it support "options" per-screen, so one can easily write a plugin to support extra output devices
22:03.54lautik-s: would be cool, this would make it the killer
22:04.06k-s[WORK]and it will be in python
22:04.08k-s[WORK]:-)
22:04.14lautiand i could save a lot of time ;-)
22:04.26k-s[WORK]dev: present something or what?
22:06.57devk-s[WORK]: yeah, I'll talk about Coherence
22:07.24lautik-s: so canola has not yet been released officially?
22:08.51*** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com)
22:08.52k-s[WORK]lauti: no, it's beta2 yet
22:09.05k-s[WORK]lauti: but we aborted that and rewrite it
22:09.11k-s[WORK]actually, we're still doing
22:09.15k-s[WORK]C -> Python
22:09.17k-s[WORK]SDL -> EFL
22:09.36*** join/#maemo ijon_ (n=ijon@dhcp218-147.yandex.ru)
22:09.54k-s[WORK]hopefully it will be more powerful yet smaller (code base)
22:10.08rafli wonder how insecure a bluetooth keyboard would be. is there a way for others to sniff what i'm typing via bluetooth?
22:10.24k-s[WORK]rafl: bluetooth is usually secure
22:10.34raflhooray
22:10.40k-s[WORK]rafl: it operates on a number of channels
22:10.50k-s[WORK]and change among them very fast
22:10.50_Monkeyk-s[WORK]: that doesn't look right
22:11.00*** join/#maemo _Monkey (n=_Monkey@dsl-217-155-26-150.zen.co.uk)
22:11.11k-s[WORK]thus it's hard to snif
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22:11.24k-s[WORK]you'd have to know the next frequency to snif
22:11.27mk8Hi to all ... :)
22:11.28k-s[WORK]_Monkey: ?
22:11.29_Monkeyk-s[work]: bugger all, i dunno
22:11.49wumpusk-s[WORK]: or sniff them all, it's possible
22:12.06k-s[WORK]wumpus: but other device may be using the channel at that time
22:12.14wumpusjust google on bluetooth and security and you'll find some interesting stuff
22:12.15k-s[WORK]and thus you'd have a hard time doing that
22:12.30wumpusthey succeeded in hacking some general purpose bluetooth chipset to act as full band sniffer
22:12.30k-s[WORK]but it's possible, yes... hard to say something is impossible nowadays
22:13.02wumpusbut that doesn't defeat te encryption of course
22:13.10k-s[WORK]better ask holtmann when he's online at #bluez
22:13.40wumpusI think the host stacks are quite secure, but you can fool some devices in various ways
22:14.28wumpusthen again, non-bluetooth wireless keyboards are probably even less secure
22:14.37wumpusas bt at least enforces some security mechanism
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22:17.02lautibye folks
22:20.27*** join/#maemo Astro (n=astro@2001:8d8:80:11:0:0:0:105)
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23:07.09*** join/#maemo amr (n=amr@cpc3-leed7-0-0-cust755.leed.cable.ntl.com)
23:07.27amrhow come when i go to instsall canola it goes all through the process then at the very end i get 'unable to install canola'
23:08.05amrit still shows up as installed, but has an empty library, and it shows up in my installed apps
23:11.54GeneralAntillesWhat does the log say?
23:12.20amrmentions somethings about dependencies
23:12.21amrone minute
23:14.16amrwhoops i cleared it
23:17.14*** join/#maemo erstazi (n=erstazi@cpe-24-93-196-95.neo.res.rr.com)
23:17.24*** join/#maemo Thanatermesis (n=Enlighte@unaffiliated/thanatermesis)
23:29.15*** join/#maemo javamaniac (n=gerardo@201.208.62.22)
23:38.44zerojayFinally got mediaserv working.
23:38.50zerojayMy movies all work great.
23:38.55zerojayNone of my TV shows, however.
23:40.18*** join/#maemo Jiten_ (n=blight@MYCD.gprs.saunalahti.fi)
23:41.22GeneralAntillesWhat's the matter with the TV shows?
23:41.40*** join/#maemo ryanfaerman (n=ryanfaer@c-76-109-91-246.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
23:41.47zerojayMedia player comes up, as usual, but before it plays them, it stops.
23:41.57zerojayI can see mencoder working.
23:42.03zerojayBut it just refuses to play them.
23:42.16zerojayThe only difference I can see is that they're in a separate directory than the movies.
23:42.45zerojayBoth in the same data directory.
23:52.10macluvjayhow would you take a screenshot on an n800
23:55.45GeneralAntillesI just use VNC. ;)
23:55.54GeneralAntillesBut there are a couple of screenshot tools in the repos.

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