| 00:00.17 | timely_changelog | svn sucks |
| 00:00.18 | deejoe | TMI |
| 00:00.27 | alterego | You suck :P |
| 00:01.21 | alterego | Are hornets fatal? |
| 00:02.03 | alterego | Meh, whatever. Good night folks. |
| 00:05.53 | x2 | http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowTo_EASILY_Partition_your_MMC_card |
| 00:06.09 | x2 | where is mbcache.ko located? |
| 00:06.19 | celesteh | cvn makes hir what??! |
| 00:06.27 | celesteh | s/cvn/svn/ |
| 00:06.44 | x2 | ? |
| 00:08.51 | x2 | how do I find a file? |
| 00:08.55 | x2 | from xterm |
| 00:10.53 | TPC | find and grep |
| 00:11.01 | TPC | its crude, but effective |
| 00:11.22 | TPC | find / | grep -i <word> |
| 00:11.25 | TPC | where word is part of the file name |
| 00:11.41 | x2 | thanks! |
| 00:11.44 | deejoe | find / -name "*word*" |
| 00:12.17 | deejoe | I expect find / | grep to bomb with an error about too many arguments |
| 00:12.49 | TPC | deejoe, eh? |
| 00:13.00 | TPC | find passes its findings to grep using stdin |
| 00:13.04 | TPC | not as arguments |
| 00:13.04 | deejoe | yes |
| 00:13.08 | deejoe | ah |
| 00:13.13 | deejoe | hmm |
| 00:13.43 | x2 | holy mother |
| 00:13.44 | pupnik | someday i want to find a tablet with default password, ssh-in and run the echoplex script |
| 00:13.53 | x2 | i think that worked |
| 00:13.57 | x2 | brb wjile I try to mount the rest of my mmc card |
| 00:14.04 | TPC | deejoe, your way uses slightly less kernel resources |
| 00:14.15 | TPC | but I doubt you would notice any difference :P |
| 00:14.16 | pupnik | echoes the mic-in to gstreamer output for a nifty echo box :) |
| 00:14.44 | deejoe | TPC: yes, TMTOWTDI |
| 00:14.47 | deejoe | :-) |
| 00:17.25 | x2 | omfg |
| 00:17.35 | x2 | why cant i mount this partition :( |
| 00:19.33 | *** join/#maemo snowmoon (n=ew2193@cpe-74-70-152-0.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 00:26.30 | timely_changelog | hrm, can someone tell me who or what this lady is and why she's on tv? http://www.nelonen.fi/alastonhollywood/ |
| 00:27.13 | timely_changelog | tpc: btw do you have a blog you'd want credited? |
| 00:29.26 | TPC | timely_changelog, no, I don't have a blog |
| 00:29.42 | timely_changelog | would you want a name credited or just TPC? |
| 00:30.53 | TPC | TPC is fine, if you want to you can include my e-mail, andreas@tpwch.com |
| 00:32.12 | timely_changelog | disq: same offer |
| 00:33.10 | x2 | how do I cd to the documents folder? |
| 00:33.16 | x2 | # cd /home/user/MyDocs/.documents/ |
| 00:33.25 | x2 | tried that btu it says I cant cd there |
| 00:33.50 | TPC | whats the exact error? |
| 00:34.07 | x2 | can't cd to "path" |
| 00:34.18 | x2 | path being whatever I type |
| 00:34.29 | timely_changelog | try it piecemeal |
| 00:34.31 | timely_changelog | cd / |
| 00:34.33 | timely_changelog | cd home |
| 00:34.35 | timely_changelog | cd user |
| 00:34.38 | timely_changelog | cd MyDocs |
| 00:34.42 | timely_changelog | cd .documents |
| 00:35.05 | TPC | hm.. busybox cd doesn't give the same error messages as bash cd |
| 00:35.16 | x2 | ahh |
| 00:35.18 | TPC | I suppose that is to be expected, more general error messages to save disk space |
| 00:35.22 | x2 | wtf |
| 00:35.27 | x2 | no mydoc folder |
| 00:35.46 | timely_changelog | busybox is fiarly sucky |
| 00:35.52 | x2 | how do i dir list |
| 00:35.58 | TPC | ls |
| 00:36.03 | x2 | ty |
| 00:36.05 | celesteh | busybox? |
| 00:36.05 | _Monkey | busybox is, like, weak by default |
| 00:36.11 | celesteh | what is it? |
| 00:36.20 | x2 | i type ls |
| 00:36.27 | x2 | it shows Mydocs |
| 00:36.29 | x2 | cd Mydocs |
| 00:36.31 | x2 | wont do it |
| 00:36.32 | x2 | lol |
| 00:36.45 | solmumaha | it's case sensitive |
| 00:36.50 | x2 | yea |
| 00:36.50 | celesteh | oh, you're trying to get to your home dir |
| 00:36.54 | x2 | oh. |
| 00:36.56 | x2 | fuck me |
| 00:37.00 | celesteh | maybe later |
| 00:37.08 | timely_changelog | in scratchbox it's not 'user' |
| 00:37.08 | x2 | LOL |
| 00:37.12 | timely_changelog | it's typically your username |
| 00:37.14 | x2 | im n00b |
| 00:37.19 | x2 | thanls Solarion |
| 00:37.22 | x2 | solmumaha |
| 00:37.47 | TPC | celesteh, its a software project, it has a minimal version of core utilities like the shell, ls, mount, chown, and so on |
| 00:38.02 | TPC | all in one statically linked binary that isn't taking up alot of space |
| 00:38.15 | TPC | then you can symlink things like /bin/ls to it and it will work like the real thing |
| 00:38.20 | x2 | ahh |
| 00:38.22 | x2 | untaring |
| 00:38.23 | TPC | its nice for emergencies |
| 00:38.33 | TPC | say if you broke libc |
| 00:38.47 | celesteh | aren't those commands built-in when you install the xterm? |
| 00:38.50 | TPC | or need a complete set of utilities on a small system, like a floppy distro |
| 00:39.06 | celesteh | oh, this isn't a maemo program |
| 00:39.18 | TPC | nope |
| 00:39.27 | TPC | maemo is using it thought to provide those basic utilities |
| 00:39.38 | celesteh | cool |
| 00:40.35 | TPC | xterm is just a terminal emulator, it doesn't really do much, it takes input from things like the keyboard and sends them to a shell, then shows the output of the shell on the screen |
| 00:40.52 | TPC | or whatever app you are running obviously |
| 00:41.56 | TPC | would have been nice if maemo had used linux-utils and coreutils to provide those tools, its the "full" versions of the tools, they may take up more space and use more ram, but they are alot easier to work with if you are used to them |
| 00:42.59 | *** join/#maemo greentux__ (n=lemke@Z5c69.z.pppool.de) |
| 00:43.17 | TPC | anyway, its getting late, goodnight everyone |
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| 01:21.51 | timely_changelog | m heh |
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| 01:34.26 | pupnik | busybox was a good choice. people who need more can install it. |
| 01:35.10 | zerojay | Good choice when resources are limited. |
| 01:35.32 | pupnik | in general, 80% of 'Nokia should have' comments fail the 'have a clue' test. |
| 01:35.46 | zerojay | Hah.. agreed. |
| 01:37.35 | pupnik | btw if busybox vi annoys you, the BSD-based 'nvi' is great! (and small) |
| 01:37.46 | pupnik | vim - wayyy to big |
| 01:37.48 | pupnik | *too |
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| 01:44.10 | pupnik | thx to lardman for this interesting performance comparison http://hbmobile.org/wiki/index.php?title=Application_Processor_Benchmarks |
| 01:47.56 | snowmoon | I wonder how the 8x0 will perform @ 400 compared to those specs |
| 01:47.57 | pupnik | look at the N800's crazy specs on the fourier transform test |
| 01:48.37 | pupnik | (Curse Intel. We hates it! We hates it! We hates foreevaaaahhhh! </gollum>) |
| 01:49.29 | pupnik | Well since memory speed doesn't increase afaik, improvement factor is <= 400/333 |
| 01:50.04 | snowmoon | But it should bring it much closer to the PXA255 |
| 01:50.11 | snowmoon | where it's not already beating it |
| 01:51.44 | pupnik | yeah and PCA270s have been out since at least 2004 |
| 01:51.47 | pupnik | *PXA |
| 01:52.19 | snowmoon | One thing it doesn't list though is wattage per unit |
| 01:53.59 | pupnik | "the 624-MHz PXA 270 dissipated 530 milliwatts," |
| 01:54.31 | snowmoon | Is that better or worse than the TI chips |
| 01:54.38 | pupnik | "the PXA 320 operating at the same frequency dissipates 327 mW" |
| 01:54.46 | *** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com) |
| 01:58.42 | x2 | :/ |
| 01:58.47 | x2 | bricked my 770 |
| 01:58.52 | x2 | reflashing... |
| 01:58.53 | _Monkey | Reflashing will reset your devices memory to factory default and wipe your home directory - use backup so that you can restore your data to the new firmware |
| 01:59.00 | x2 | cant do it on 64 bit (gay) |
| 01:59.17 | celesteh | 64 bit machines are homosexual? |
| 01:59.24 | celesteh | what? |
| 01:59.24 | x2 | i cant backup if I cant boot mr bot |
| 01:59.25 | x2 | :p |
| 01:59.32 | x2 | RAM: Used: 1824/4094MB |
| 01:59.36 | x2 | i need 64 bit |
| 01:59.38 | x2 | ^ |
| 01:59.48 | celesteh | what does that have to do with being gay? |
| 01:59.58 | x2 | uh |
| 02:00.03 | x2 | no drivers for the 770? |
| 02:00.08 | x2 | so i cant flash it on 64 bit |
| 02:00.33 | celesteh | i don't see the connection to sexual orientation? |
| 02:00.41 | x2 | well |
| 02:00.51 | x2 | i have to put the flasher and bin on my flash drive |
| 02:00.55 | x2 | walk to my sisters room |
| 02:00.58 | x2 | and flash it on xp |
| 02:01.03 | x2 | OR |
| 02:01.08 | x2 | install linux in vmware |
| 02:01.10 | x2 | taking forever |
| 02:01.15 | x2 | and flash in linux |
| 02:01.16 | x2 | lol.. |
| 02:01.33 | celesteh | ok, that sounds like a pain in the ass |
| 02:01.53 | celesteh | but, unless you're implying something totally inappropriate about your relationship with your sister |
| 02:02.00 | x2 | lol |
| 02:02.01 | celesteh | i still don't see what it has to do with being gay? |
| 02:02.32 | pupnik | afaik the TI omaps give you more bang per milliwatt than PXAs, but this is just an impression |
| 02:03.57 | snowmoon | I've left my 770 running pidgn for 8-10 hours and still had most of the charge left |
| 02:05.12 | snowmoon | Now if I can just figure out how not to crash the browser I would be all set |
| 02:05.27 | x2 | lol |
| 02:05.31 | pupnik | looks like Cortex-A8 will weigh-in around 300mW in 65nm fab |
| 02:09.01 | *** part/#maemo rene4jazz (n=rene@WLL-40-pppoe090.t-net.net.ve) |
| 02:10.56 | pupnik | btw that link above gives interesting CFLAGS to try for optimizing performance on 770 / N800 |
| 02:14.13 | *** join/#maemo jacques_ (n=jacques@nslu2-linux/jacques) |
| 02:15.41 | snowmoon | Speed is just one factor... -Os is probably the best choice except for very small, speed critical, sections |
| 02:16.17 | zerojay | -Os should be the best for the tablets. |
| 02:17.35 | pupnik | i generally look at what ssvb does :) |
| 02:19.54 | pupnik | oh dear - runt |
| 02:20.28 | zerojay | I got enough positive feedback about the post I made on the ITT forum about IT2008 apps needing to be recompiled that I'm going to just start a blog. |
| 02:20.37 | pupnik | :) |
| 02:20.43 | zerojay | As much as I hate the term... eh. |
| 02:21.24 | zerojay | Seems like there's a need for some of the technical stuff to be explained in plain english... so, why not. |
| 02:22.31 | *** join/#maemo lmoura (n=lmoura@189.13.179.30) |
| 02:22.51 | snowmoon | zerojay: memory bandwith vs microbenchmark ;-) |
| 02:23.02 | zerojay | hah. |
| 02:24.23 | pupnik | wow new flags reduced dosbox from 6.8MB to 3.4MB (with debug symbols) |
| 02:24.37 | pupnik | wtf |
| 02:24.50 | snowmoon | zerojay: which post specificall ( curious ) |
| 02:25.01 | zerojay | I don't remember where it was exactly on the forums. |
| 02:25.09 | zerojay | There were so many threads posted that got to 10+ pages. |
| 02:25.27 | snowmoon | lol, I think I'll try searching first |
| 02:26.04 | zerojay | People were complaining about developers needing to recompile their apps for IT2008 because of the switch to a current GTK... along with the pluses and minuses of it and why it needed to be done. |
| 02:26.45 | zerojay | uhh... would be nice if blogger let me actually TYPE in the text entry field. |
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| 03:12.16 | x2 | :/ |
| 03:12.18 | x2 | anyone there? |
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| 03:52.47 | pupnik | hi x2 |
| 03:56.33 | x2 | hey pupnik |
| 03:57.25 | pupnik | how did flashing go? |
| 03:57.44 | x2 | great |
| 03:57.50 | x2 | im trying to do os06 now |
| 03:57.52 | x2 | to my mmc |
| 03:57.56 | x2 | then flash hacker |
| 03:58.03 | x2 | so it should dual boot it |
| 03:58.17 | x2 | maybe.. |
| 03:58.58 | x2 | http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowTo_EASILY_Partition_your_MMC_card |
| 03:59.04 | x2 | on the 2nd to bottom code box |
| 03:59.04 | *** join/#maemo jacques (n=jacques@nslu2-linux/jacques) |
| 03:59.13 | x2 | where you make the other partition on the mmc.. |
| 03:59.22 | x2 | it wont let me do mke2fs |
| 03:59.31 | x2 | says it is not valid |
| 03:59.41 | x2 | oh yay its done copying everything |
| 03:59.47 | x2 | let me finish and see if it even boots.. |
| 04:02.44 | x2 | lolol |
| 04:02.46 | x2 | i dont know wtf |
| 04:02.49 | x2 | same exact boot loop |
| 04:03.25 | pupnik | hrm |
| 04:03.32 | x2 | i know whats messed up too |
| 04:03.37 | x2 | http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowTo_EASILY_Partition_your_MMC_card |
| 04:03.42 | x2 | 2nd box up |
| 04:03.49 | x2 | and bottom box |
| 04:03.50 | pupnik | you gotta insmod the ext2fs module |
| 04:03.53 | x2 | I doubt it got mounted right |
| 04:04.08 | x2 | I do? |
| 04:04.09 | pupnik | or modprobe it rather |
| 04:04.30 | pupnik | why don't they mention that you have to modprobe the module |
| 04:04.40 | x2 | is that why im getting owned |
| 04:04.41 | x2 | lol |
| 04:04.57 | x2 | im going to flash back to hacker 07 and try again |
| 04:05.03 | pupnik | hmm nono |
| 04:05.03 | x2 | how do i modprobe it? |
| 04:05.04 | pupnik | lsmod |
| 04:05.08 | x2 | er? |
| 04:05.14 | pupnik | type lsmod in xterm |
| 04:05.20 | x2 | hacker o7 or os06 |
| 04:05.27 | x2 | i need to fraking reflash it again now |
| 04:05.31 | pupnik | stick with 06 if that's wha. |
| 04:05.37 | x2 | ok |
| 04:05.49 | x2 | brb |
| 04:05.50 | pupnik | if you reflash do 06 and then install xterm and do the becomeroot bit |
| 04:05.57 | x2 | yea |
| 04:06.03 | x2 | i can do that quick |
| 04:06.16 | x2 | maybe you can walk me through it after that? |
| 04:06.17 | pupnik | then before you do the mke3fs |
| 04:06.18 | x2 | im getting nowhere |
| 04:06.25 | pupnik | do 'lsmod' |
| 04:06.32 | pupnik | and see if it has the "ext2" module loaded |
| 04:06.37 | pupnik | if not, then "modprobe ext2" |
| 04:06.47 | x2 | ok |
| 04:06.52 | pupnik | otherwise it can't (afaik) format ext2 |
| 04:06.59 | x2 | is there something else that can cause it? |
| 04:07.10 | pupnik | afaik, ext2 isn't loaded by default |
| 04:07.14 | x2 | on hacker 07 everything seemed to be ok |
| 04:07.17 | x2 | then it boot looped |
| 04:07.22 | x2 | http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_easily_boot_from_mmc_card/ |
| 04:07.27 | x2 | does that look alright? |
| 04:07.33 | x2 | ill brb a sec though |
| 04:07.37 | x2 | flasha again |
| 04:07.43 | pupnik | k |
| 04:08.58 | *** join/#maemo acme (n=acme@201.21.150.73) |
| 04:11.57 | x2 | ok |
| 04:11.58 | x2 | im back |
| 04:12.25 | pupnik | i'll be around - no hurry |
| 04:12.38 | x2 | everything on that page ^ look ok? |
| 04:12.43 | x2 | ill try this once more :/ |
| 04:12.49 | x2 | repeat flashing is annoying me |
| 04:14.21 | pupnik | no afaik that page is missing "modprobe ext2" |
| 04:14.34 | pupnik | ohhh |
| 04:14.38 | pupnik | sorry i see it at the end |
| 04:15.00 | x2 | wha? |
| 04:15.07 | pupnik | so maybe mke2fs doesn't really require ext2.ko |
| 04:15.17 | x2 | lol |
| 04:15.24 | x2 | if this bricks it again.. |
| 04:15.25 | pupnik | well run through it and maybe we can figure out what's not working |
| 04:15.28 | x2 | i swear :/ |
| 04:15.30 | x2 | ok |
| 04:15.43 | x2 | installing xterm and bluetooth |
| 04:17.00 | pupnik | also let me know if you want to install two OSes on mmc instead of one |
| 04:17.16 | x2 | hrm |
| 04:17.16 | x2 | thats fine |
| 04:17.27 | x2 | i guess this boot selector isnt working |
| 04:17.34 | x2 | sicne it doesnt even show that |
| 04:17.40 | x2 | probably the mmc2 not being mounted right.. |
| 04:17.56 | pupnik | on n770 you only have mmc1 |
| 04:18.11 | x2 | h |
| 04:18.12 | x2 | [00:14] <pupnik> sorry i see it at the end |
| 04:18.14 | x2 | bleh |
| 04:18.19 | x2 | # insmod /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/current/ext2.ko |
| 04:18.19 | x2 | # mount /dev/mmcblk0p2 /media/mmc2 |
| 04:18.34 | x2 | that bottom mount shouldnt be there? |
| 04:18.34 | pupnik | oh that :)_ |
| 04:18.41 | x2 | it never has mounted for me |
| 04:18.52 | pupnik | i meant in the normal configuration |
| 04:18.56 | x2 | ah |
| 04:19.04 | x2 | ok, lets get started here |
| 04:19.06 | x2 | :/ |
| 04:19.10 | x2 | oh wow |
| 04:19.18 | x2 | i just tried to touch my monitor... |
| 04:19.22 | x2 | too much 770 syndrom |
| 04:20.13 | pupnik | heh i think i did that once |
| 04:20.19 | x2 | lol |
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| 04:32.43 | x2 | ok |
| 04:32.44 | x2 | all set |
| 04:32.50 | x2 | shall i start getting owned again? |
| 04:33.22 | pupnik | you're at the sfdisk step yes? |
| 04:33.40 | x2 | just about |
| 04:33.47 | x2 | im getting the package |
| 04:34.23 | x2 | ok |
| 04:34.27 | x2 | where should I stop at? |
| 04:34.47 | pupnik | well after you do the sfdisk stuff |
| 04:34.55 | pupnik | you should be able to see the partitions with fdisk -l |
| 04:35.19 | pupnik | actually nothing* there should mess up your system |
| 04:35.26 | x2 | ok |
| 04:35.32 | x2 | ill do that whole block as it shows |
| 04:39.04 | x2 | ok all done |
| 04:39.07 | x2 | i have a 2gb card |
| 04:39.14 | x2 | that souldnt matter should it? |
| 04:39.51 | x2 | try to format them now? |
| 04:40.32 | x2 | ok i just shutdown |
| 04:40.38 | x2 | once its rebooted |
| 04:40.43 | x2 | its mke2fs time |
| 04:40.45 | x2 | what do I do? |
| 04:41.42 | pupnik | hm |
| 04:41.44 | pupnik | lsmod |
| 04:41.57 | pupnik | my 2gb card worked |
| 04:42.00 | x2 | ok |
| 04:42.36 | x2 | ok |
| 04:42.41 | x2 | whats lsmod supposed to show |
| 04:42.54 | x2 | do i try mke2fs? |
| 04:43.44 | pupnik | yeah |
| 04:44.01 | pupnik | did mkdosfs work? |
| 04:44.07 | x2 | yea |
| 04:44.12 | pupnik | ok go for it |
| 04:44.34 | x2 | omg! |
| 04:44.35 | x2 | it worked |
| 04:44.50 | x2 | i did this on hacker and it still bricked |
| 04:44.56 | x2 | so hopefully... |
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| 04:56.09 | x2 | omfg |
| 04:56.10 | x2 | im a noob |
| 04:56.16 | x2 | on the boot flasher.. |
| 04:56.20 | x2 | it prompts yes/no |
| 04:56.23 | x2 | i was typing y |
| 04:56.26 | x2 | .... |
| 04:56.30 | x2 | y <> yes |
| 04:56.54 | pupnik | ah |
| 04:57.03 | x2 | hm |
| 04:57.22 | pupnik | what boot flasher are you running now? |
| 04:57.38 | x2 | whatever it told me to |
| 04:57.44 | x2 | in that link |
| 04:58.48 | x2 | yay bootloader works! |
| 05:02.23 | pupnik | cool |
| 05:05.17 | x2 | thanks so much for the help |
| 05:05.44 | pupnik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LR-jaFegt5w&NR=1 For those not in the USA - here are the media lies that are flooding the US media to justify an attack on Iran |
| 05:06.08 | pupnik | cheers- you did it all :) |
| 05:16.26 | czr | mornink |
| 05:22.43 | pupnik | Iran funding Al-Quaeda... LIE |
| 05:22.47 | pupnik | haha sorry offtopic |
| 05:24.59 | czr | pupnik, unless you can tie that up with the internet tablets somehow |
| 05:25.12 | czr | I'm pretty sure there's some consipracy theory that fits that purpose too :-) |
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| 06:50.50 | czr | any ideas on how exactly to simulate the signal the mce emits when entering flight mode? (on the SDK) |
| 06:52.20 | czr | I'm trying this: run-standalone.sh dbus-send --system --type=signal --dest=com.nokia.mce /com/nokia/mce/signal com.nokia.mce.signal.sig_device_mode_ind string:'flight' |
| 06:52.29 | czr | but it doesn't register in libosso |
| 06:54.41 | czr | ah. found it |
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| 07:44.29 | pupnik | got a new build of dosbox for testing |
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| 08:04.36 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
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| 09:04.25 | AD-N770 | good morning |
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| 10:37.55 | db48x | I don't like the way the n800 lets you type accented characters |
| 10:38.32 | db48x | I type fast enough that my "it's" always comes out as "it'ś" |
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| 10:47.43 | alterego | I've not had that problem |
| 10:47.43 | alterego | Maybe you should try relaxing more :) |
| 10:47.43 | alterego | I do have a problem with upcasing characters and the web browser. |
| 10:47.50 | alterego | If I make any of the top row upcase the focus switches from what ever input I'm using to the location bar, which is a pain in the ass :) |
| 10:51.08 | timely_changelog | yes, that's a common problem |
| 10:51.11 | timely_changelog | very annoying |
| 10:51.20 | Jaffa | Another reason for a real keyboard. |
| 10:51.41 | Jaffa | Although hopefully the general performance improvements mean that resizing the window to accomdate the popup keyboard is a little more seamless. |
| 10:51.55 | timely_changelog | i think i ended up blaming the ui |
| 10:52.09 | timely_changelog | actually i think we stopped resizing the window |
| 10:52.36 | timely_changelog | jaffa: wanna read a long draft? :( |
| 10:52.51 | Jaffa | Yeah, better than helping with the Sunday lunch ;-) |
| 10:53.08 | alterego | Heh |
| 10:53.24 | timely_changelog | hese people must be dyslexic |
| 10:53.48 | timely_changelog | how do they manage to draw a slash for the same object going in two different directions.. |
| 10:53.52 | timely_changelog | *again* |
| 10:54.13 | Jaffa | Oh no. Am I going to get annoyed at the lack of grammar, punctuation and proper speeling? I get enough of that at work, from supposed client-facing "professionals" :( |
| 10:54.40 | timely_changelog | if you buy or use a Nokia product, i believe it's impossible not to |
| 10:54.50 | Jaffa | Only if you RTFM ;) |
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| 10:55.11 | timely_changelog | or TFM, TF-UI, TF-Help, TF-Forums |
| 10:55.22 | timely_changelog | or Anything with letters |
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| 10:56.00 | Jaffa | TFUI can be so annoying in other ways, I tend to ignore it. Although I got *really* annoyed when Blocks was included officially but still said "You loose". |
| 10:56.35 | timely_changelog | i got them to fix that one |
| 10:56.38 | timely_changelog | idiots |
| 10:57.05 | timely_changelog | i still haven't managed to get them to spell "ring tones" correctly |
| 10:57.17 | timely_changelog | they insist that nokia style is more important than what's on nokiausa.com |
| 10:57.25 | timely_changelog | don't ask me why |
| 10:57.56 | timely_changelog | not that marketing seems to have any sway here, they seem to be given orders like "please march off the following cliffs" |
| 10:58.40 | db48x | heh |
| 10:59.01 | Jaffa | Aren't marketing usually in charge? (Whether that's for the best or not...) |
| 10:59.07 | timely_changelog | only in sane places |
| 10:59.18 | suihkulokki | timely_changelog: damn, that order should have been sent to the legal department |
| 10:59.20 | timely_changelog | here we have product management which has "Vision" |
| 10:59.35 | Jaffa | Oh. PHBs FTW. |
| 10:59.44 | timely_changelog | suihkulokki: the legal department is yet another group which can't manage to write proper English sentences |
| 10:59.58 | timely_changelog | not specifically the person with whom I work, he's a nice and good lawyer |
| 11:00.04 | timely_changelog | but the ones who manage to get text into our content |
| 11:00.08 | Jaffa | Still, Steve Jobs has vision and he seems to be doing all right. |
| 11:00.11 | timely_changelog | i'll offer text from maemo.org |
| 11:00.16 | timely_changelog | jaffa: he's steve jobs |
| 11:00.26 | timely_changelog | we have these guys who readily admit they aren't him |
| 11:00.30 | timely_changelog | but don't bother trying to emulate him |
| 11:00.38 | timely_changelog | and still make absolute decissions |
| 11:00.47 | timely_changelog | anyway, maemo.org url in a sec |
| 11:00.51 | Jaffa | The Application Manager's legalese is annoying. |
| 11:00.52 | timely_changelog | https://maemo.org/legal/contribution_guidelines |
| 11:01.04 | timely_changelog | iirc it doesn't have many bugs other than being verbose |
| 11:01.12 | timely_changelog | Please note that, Nokia makes no representations or warranties of any kind, including express or implied that your Contribution will end up to this or any other project of Nokia. |
| 11:01.18 | timely_changelog | "will end up to this" |
| 11:01.25 | db48x | nice |
| 11:01.31 | timely_changelog | yes, right, that could be English in some alternate dimension |
| 11:02.01 | timely_changelog | at this point, i'm happy with verbose legalese as long as it's proper English |
| 11:02.05 | timely_changelog | i just can't even find tha |
| 11:02.25 | timely_changelog | and the sad thing is, these people should know that the more words they write, the less likely they are to achieve proper English |
| 11:02.32 | Jaffa | "Your Contribution must be under license accepted by Open Source Initiative." Missing an "a" there. |
| 11:02.53 | timely_changelog | yeah well, i didn't say this was the only bug in that sentence |
| 11:03.00 | timely_changelog | or paragraph... the next one isn't great either |
| 11:03.08 | Jaffa | "If the contribution or parts thereof are copyrighted by someone else than you and it is not evident form the license terms [...]". Two mistakes in that phrase alone. |
| 11:03.09 | timely_changelog | but that's a nit! |
| 11:03.18 | timely_changelog | does it say "Form"? |
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| 11:03.29 | Jaffa | timely_changelog: yep, that's a c&p. |
| 11:03.44 | timely_changelog | ... |
| 11:04.19 | suihkulokki | well, the bloggers have replaced journalists dispite the typoes and grammar problems |
| 11:04.23 | timely_changelog | dear sir: your legal text has been rejected for failing to pass evaluation by a 4th grade American student |
| 11:04.29 | suihkulokki | so it could happen to lawyers as well :P |
| 11:04.49 | timely_changelog | suihkulokki: i'd rather replace them with engineers |
| 11:04.57 | timely_changelog | preferably ones who know that Firefox has a spellchecker |
| 11:05.08 | timely_changelog | although, even those seem relatively rare :( |
| 11:05.26 | timely_changelog | granted, that won't save us from form, but ... |
| 11:05.46 | timely_changelog | .invite jaffa |
| 11:06.13 | alterego | Why is spelling so important to you? |
| 11:06.33 | timely_changelog | alterego: total lack of professionalism |
| 11:06.39 | alterego | Oh, really. |
| 11:06.40 | timely_changelog | often the meaning is changed when you mess up |
| 11:06.52 | alterego | Well, I disagree. |
| 11:06.57 | timely_changelog | any text that will be translated will be corruped if the ext didn't start off correct |
| 11:07.12 | timely_changelog | s/ext/text/ |
| 11:07.19 | timely_changelog | no, i didn't! |
| 11:07.22 | db48x | heh |
| 11:07.26 | alterego | I guess if your application requires it to be exact that's a good reason. |
| 11:07.36 | timely_changelog | alterego: oddly, legal contexts DO! |
| 11:07.42 | timely_changelog | and translations absolutely do! |
| 11:07.49 | db48x | that's totally unprofessional of you, timeless |
| 11:07.50 | alterego | Meh, |
| 11:07.52 | timely_changelog | since otherwise you get the image viewer application which has |
| 11:07.58 | alterego | legal contexts shmeagle flotexts. |
| 11:08.04 | timely_changelog | "(finn)turn to horizontaol" |
| 11:08.06 | timely_changelog | err |
| 11:08.10 | timely_changelog | "(finn)turn to horizontal" |
| 11:08.12 | timely_changelog | and |
| 11:08.17 | timely_changelog | "(finn)turn to vertical" |
| 11:08.23 | timely_changelog | which if you try to read it basically means |
| 11:08.30 | timely_changelog | for a wide image and the first option, do nothing |
| 11:08.36 | alterego | Why don't you just get lawyers from whatever country the language you're translating to? |
| 11:08.36 | timely_changelog | for a tall image and the second option, do nothing |
| 11:08.49 | timely_changelog | alterego: sorry, unrelated problem spaces |
| 11:08.59 | alterego | Ah |
| 11:09.10 | timely_changelog | the translation space is what i'm describing here |
| 11:09.40 | timely_changelog | for a tall image and the first option, it means "rotate 90deg" to a random direction |
| 11:09.48 | timely_changelog | and similarly for a wide image and the second option |
| 11:10.00 | timely_changelog | too bad the intent means something very different |
| 11:10.25 | timely_changelog | s/means/was/ |
| 11:10.51 | alterego | Well, I can't say I get annoyed by poor translations, or other peoples spelling mistakes. I do get annoyed about my own spelling mistakes. |
| 11:11.31 | db48x | alterego: timely works for Nokia, so in a sense they are his own spelling mistakes |
| 11:11.51 | timely_changelog | they make me look bad |
| 11:11.55 | alterego | :) |
| 11:12.08 | timely_changelog | they result in a product which won't sell well in our target market |
| 11:12.10 | alterego | To who? I think you're quite pretty ;) |
| 11:12.23 | timely_changelog | have you seen a photo of me? |
| 11:12.27 | alterego | No |
| 11:12.27 | timely_changelog | and did you mean petty? |
| 11:12.31 | alterego | Hah |
| 11:12.40 | timely_changelog | see, spelling counts! |
| 11:12.45 | alterego | :) |
| 11:12.52 | timely_changelog | and if i can't trust you to spell words right, i can't trust anything you say |
| 11:12.56 | timely_changelog | maybe you misspelled that too... |
| 11:13.09 | alterego | s/No/Yes |
| 11:13.13 | alterego | :) |
| 11:13.28 | alterego | I generally always correct myself. |
| 11:13.37 | timely_changelog | generally always = contradiction |
| 11:13.39 | timely_changelog | redo from start |
| 11:13.47 | timely_changelog | usually? |
| 11:13.57 | alterego | I will usually correct myself :P |
| 11:14.43 | timely_changelog | btw, i've removed most of the spelling errors from the numbered section |
| 11:14.47 | timely_changelog | that doesn't mean there weren't any |
| 11:15.05 | timely_changelog | it just means they annoyed me so much that i couldn't stand them / waiting to rewrie them |
| 11:15.35 | timely_changelog | oh, for the record, since not everyone here knows, my 't' key fails some portion of the time |
| 11:15.59 | konttori | Hey, does anyone know if n810 actually has the fm sender functionality? |
| 11:16.06 | timely_changelog | fm? |
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| 11:16.12 | konttori | yeah. radio |
| 11:16.16 | timely_changelog | no raido |
| 11:16.18 | konttori | it was mentioned somewhere |
| 11:16.20 | timely_changelog | s/id/di/ |
| 11:16.32 | alterego | It's an external unit I thought. |
| 11:16.34 | timely_changelog | we swapped the radio for gps :) |
| 11:17.45 | konttori | ahh. well, makes sense |
| 11:17.59 | konttori | would have been nice while waiting for the final a2dp support |
| 11:18.21 | konttori | I was mainly interested in it for the transmitter part. |
| 11:18.56 | konttori | to be able to hook sound signal to the stereo |
| 11:19.21 | konttori | they were saying in here: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3669465936.html |
| 11:19.28 | konttori | that it contained the trasmitter. |
| 11:19.51 | konttori | anyway, gps is much better to have in there. |
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| 11:24.16 | db48x | hey, am I the only one that is annoyed that the butt of the stylus is not perpendicular to it's shaft? |
| 11:24.31 | db48x | I keep idly trying to stand the thing on end |
| 11:24.37 | db48x | and always failing |
| 11:24.49 | timely_changelog | heh |
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| 11:27.24 | db48x | ooh, the slope of my keyboard is just right |
| 11:27.33 | db48x | I can stand it up there if I orient it correctly |
| 11:31.03 | alterego | Damnit, I know what I should have done. |
| 11:31.26 | alterego | I should have made an image of my partitioned SD card so I could reinstate it easily .. |
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| 11:32.25 | db48x | timely_changelog: got a minute for a stupid question? |
| 11:32.58 | timely_changelog | sure |
| 11:33.03 | db48x | I need to know how to launch microb from the command line, in order to get Talos working on the n800. However, simply executing /usr/bin/browser doesn't do anything |
| 11:33.10 | db48x | is there a trick? a secret handshake perhaps? |
| 11:33.29 | timely_changelog | um |
| 11:33.33 | timely_changelog | typically tha should work |
| 11:33.46 | timely_changelog | you can try /usr/bin/browser --engine=microb --url=about:blank |
| 11:34.00 | alterego | Shouldn't he use the dbus service? |
| 11:34.13 | timely_changelog | the fewer headaches the better |
| 11:34.23 | timely_changelog | and given talos integrates w/ a number of geckos |
| 11:34.39 | timely_changelog | all of which use shell scripts or equivalents to run, no |
| 11:34.48 | timely_changelog | he shouldn't be customizing the thing to deal with lame apis |
| 11:34.58 | timely_changelog | especially ones likely to change weekly |
| 11:35.02 | db48x | well, Talos has a different Python module for each OS already |
| 11:35.11 | db48x | and I'm adding one specifically for the n800 |
| 11:35.17 | alterego | Right |
| 11:35.19 | db48x | so if I must use dbus then I will |
| 11:35.21 | timely_changelog | ok: i don't support dbus |
| 11:35.29 | timely_changelog | if you want to deal w/ it, you're on your own |
| 11:35.34 | db48x | if there's documentation on it, and the command line doesn't work |
| 11:35.36 | timely_changelog | you can talk to swift, but um, you can't :) |
| 11:36.05 | db48x | ahh, adding the --url param fixed it |
| 11:36.11 | db48x | well, almost |
| 11:36.18 | db48x | it opened a window and then segfaulted |
| 11:36.34 | timely_changelog | heh |
| 11:36.35 | alterego | Is IT2006 mistral or gregale? |
| 11:36.38 | timely_changelog | close enough for government work |
| 11:36.42 | timely_changelog | alterego: yes |
| 11:36.47 | alterego | Heh |
| 11:36.57 | timely_changelog | http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/8/ |
| 11:37.11 | timely_changelog | you scipped scirocco |
| 11:37.16 | timely_changelog | s/c/k/ |
| 11:37.23 | db48x | ahh |
| 11:37.28 | alterego | Well, I never owned a 770 so I don't really know about it. |
| 11:37.32 | db48x | it only crashes if there's already a copy of the browser open |
| 11:37.39 | alterego | I think I'll drop support for the 770 and ruby-maemo |
| 11:37.51 | alterego | I'll compile one set of packages but that's it for now. |
| 11:38.00 | timely_changelog | alterego: well, that page is designed to solve the problem, at least until 4.0 comes out |
| 11:38.16 | timely_changelog | which reminds me |
| 11:38.24 | timely_changelog | i was going to rename 3.x to 4.0 in bugs.maemo |
| 11:41.38 | timely_changelog | what is a Internet Tablet Video Converter |
| 11:41.41 | alterego | So would it be better to tag releases as 'maemo2' and 'maemo3' and 'maemo4' etc? |
| 11:41.43 | timely_changelog | and why does it deserve a produc? |
| 11:41.56 | timely_changelog | alterego: i'd suggest giving up |
| 11:42.02 | alterego | :( |
| 11:42.08 | alterego | Giving up what? |
| 11:42.53 | timely_changelog | well, you're going to do it, you probably want 2.0, 2.1, 2.2., ... |
| 11:43.07 | alterego | I'm not going to do it for _every_ release .. |
| 11:43.13 | alterego | I'll do it for 2.2 3.2 and 4.0 |
| 11:43.36 | alterego | Which should be inline with the latest ITOS releases for each HW platform? |
| 11:43.42 | timely_changelog | does svn not suppor symlinks? |
| 11:43.55 | alterego | Not as far as I know. |
| 11:43.56 | timely_changelog | n800s will run 4.0 |
| 11:44.04 | alterego | timely_changelog, yes. I know. |
| 11:44.11 | alterego | Like 770 can run 3.2 |
| 11:44.13 | timely_changelog | so if you're counting hardware plaforms, then, um... |
| 11:44.25 | alterego | (HE) |
| 11:48.20 | db48x | oh, hrm |
| 11:48.43 | db48x | I bet there's no way to specify a new profile location when you launch microb |
| 11:49.06 | timely_changelog | iirc the env vars probably work |
| 11:49.10 | timely_changelog | but otherwise, right |
| 11:49.14 | timely_changelog | no commandline parsing |
| 11:50.08 | db48x | env var is worth a try |
| 11:50.26 | db48x | MOZ_PROFILE_DIR or something, right? |
| 11:50.50 | timely_changelog | sounds right, but ask mxr |
| 11:53.13 | db48x | hmm, no luck |
| 11:56.17 | sp3000 | yes, svn can store symlinks |
| 11:57.07 | timely_changelog | personally, i'd suggest you use symlinks |
| 11:57.11 | timely_changelog | 3.x => 3.2 |
| 12:03.31 | db48x | why does the browser's save as feature use '.htm' as the filename extension? |
| 12:05.18 | timely_changelog | 8.3 suppor :) |
| 12:06.04 | timely_changelog | bu seriously, i have no idea, i'm sure we inheritted it from some ancient spec |
| 12:09.28 | zerojay | tm? |
| 12:10.13 | timely_changelog | target milestone |
| 12:10.57 | timely_changelog | if you have js enabled, load https://bugs.maemo.org/query.cgi?format=advanced&resolution= |
| 12:11.21 | timely_changelog | oh, heh |
| 12:11.30 | timely_changelog | tm's aren't enabled |
| 12:11.34 | timely_changelog | well now, ain't that a trick |
| 12:11.42 | db48x | hmm |
| 12:11.47 | db48x | this is interesting |
| 12:11.50 | zerojay | We can always just pretend. :) |
| 12:12.02 | db48x | the File Manager on my n800 shows a 'Shared media' as a peer of the n800 |
| 12:12.09 | db48x | with 'Azureus' inside it |
| 12:12.23 | zerojay | Azureus probably has a upnp server. |
| 12:12.33 | db48x | yea, I think it does |
| 12:12.37 | timely_changelog | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=187&ctype=xml |
| 12:12.45 | timely_changelog | note the target_milestone is 1.2 :) |
| 12:13.27 | alterego | ruby-libconic done :) |
| 12:13.31 | timely_changelog | zerojay: datamining for experts courses :) |
| 12:13.37 | zerojay | Hah. |
| 12:13.37 | timely_changelog | isn't libconic deprecated? |
| 12:13.50 | db48x | so what exactly does the n800 look for in a upnp server? |
| 12:13.50 | alterego | It's in chinook. |
| 12:14.05 | timely_changelog | "hello upnp server" |
| 12:14.05 | alterego | I don't see any deprecation notes anywhere .. |
| 12:14.42 | db48x | oh, also |
| 12:14.46 | alterego | http://maemo.org/development/documentation/apis/4-x/ |
| 12:14.53 | alterego | Are you saying there's deprecated libs in there? |
| 12:14.54 | zerojay | db48x: Like most guys when asked what they look for in women, it just looks for ANY UPNP server. ;) |
| 12:15.04 | db48x | why are does the wifi signal strength indicator look like it's disabled? |
| 12:15.07 | db48x | zerojay: heh |
| 12:15.09 | timely_changelog | oh, sorry |
| 12:15.24 | timely_changelog | osso-ic is the deprecated one |
| 12:15.29 | alterego | :) |
| 12:15.43 | alterego | Good, so I've not wasted the past few hours ;) |
| 12:16.41 | timely_changelog | why does my device think it's a good idea to randomly hunt for ntworks and then bug my screen with "save this network" sysem modal dialogs |
| 12:16.45 | timely_changelog | while the device is *idl* |
| 12:16.55 | timely_changelog | s/dl/dle/ |
| 12:16.58 | alterego | 810? |
| 12:17.01 | timely_changelog | yes |
| 12:17.07 | alterego | Sounds like a bug. |
| 12:17.12 | timely_changelog | sounds like a feature |
| 12:17.17 | alterego | Oh wait, is there a "auto connect" feature? |
| 12:17.20 | timely_changelog | fwiw, i could use 2008 on my n800s |
| 12:17.23 | timely_changelog | alterego: yes |
| 12:17.34 | alterego | Maybe turn that off? |
| 12:17.36 | timely_changelog | but, to do so, i'd have to backup everything, which takes way too long |
| 12:17.41 | timely_changelog | alterego: why should i have to? |
| 12:17.46 | *** join/#maemo Sho_ (i=ehs1@kde/hein) |
| 12:17.55 | timely_changelog | i didn't tell it to "automatically bug me to save networks" |
| 12:18.06 | alterego | Well, if you want those "annoying system notifications". |
| 12:18.13 | zerojay | Put it in offline mode. |
| 12:18.16 | alterego | Hah |
| 12:18.23 | alterego | Send it to me. |
| 12:18.27 | timely_changelog | zerojay: but maybe i don't want it offline |
| 12:18.38 | timely_changelog | alterego: sorry, i can only ship official hardware |
| 12:18.43 | alterego | :) |
| 12:18.45 | timely_changelog | and i think i've already offered my n810 |
| 12:19.01 | alterego | What about an N95? |
| 12:19.06 | timely_changelog | i don't have one |
| 12:19.06 | snowmoon | disable the app that's bringing up the networking? |
| 12:19.16 | timely_changelog | snowmoon: there isn't one afaict |
| 12:19.22 | timely_changelog | there's nothing on the desktop |
| 12:19.23 | snowmoon | there is |
| 12:19.26 | alterego | Actually, after seeing one the other day I'm not sure I want one anyway. |
| 12:19.29 | timely_changelog | media player is the only app running |
| 12:19.31 | zerojay | timely_changelog: Your tablet is a junkie needing its fix... plug the ethernet cable directly to its veins! |
| 12:19.33 | timely_changelog | and it's idle |
| 12:19.40 | alterego | Think I'll stick to my SE pos |
| 12:19.47 | timely_changelog | se? |
| 12:19.53 | alterego | sony eric |
| 12:19.57 | czr | sucky edition? |
| 12:19.59 | czr | oh :-) |
| 12:20.15 | alterego | It's actually disintergrating. |
| 12:20.20 | alterego | Every week something new falls off. |
| 12:20.21 | timely_changelog | hey, w950i's are good phones |
| 12:20.44 | zerojay | timely_changelog: Control Panel -> Connectivity -> Search interval |
| 12:20.51 | alterego | This phone must be 3 years old, at least. |
| 12:20.52 | zerojay | Well.. if it's still the same on IT2008 anyways. |
| 12:20.54 | alterego | Maybe more |
| 12:21.00 | timely_changelog | 10mins |
| 12:21.12 | zerojay | timely_changelog: Change it to Never. |
| 12:21.12 | _Monkey | zerojay: that doesn't look right |
| 12:21.35 | zerojay | Boom, no more annoying popups. |
| 12:21.54 | timely_changelog | zerojay: click the ? in that dialog |
| 12:22.00 | timely_changelog | scroll to "Tip:" |
| 12:22.04 | timely_changelog | do you see: |
| 12:22.11 | timely_changelog | If you enable Any connection... ? |
| 12:22.24 | zerojay | Yes. |
| 12:22.36 | timely_changelog | is the next word wrong? |
| 12:22.58 | zerojay | "and"? |
| 12:23.06 | timely_changelog | that's the word |
| 12:23.13 | zerojay | Yeah, i guess it should be "or". |
| 12:23.26 | Jiten | ok, there is something weird about gtk.TextView. If I type a literal string and put it in there, I can select the text just fine. However, for some other strings that come from an unpickling operation (I think) I can't select the text. Even if I combine them with literals before showing. |
| 12:23.28 | timely_changelog | there's a bugs.maemo.org/Documentation product |
| 12:23.31 | timely_changelog | please file a bug :) |
| 12:23.35 | zerojay | Will do. |
| 12:23.35 | timely_changelog | specify version 4.0 |
| 12:23.37 | timely_changelog | it's still broken |
| 12:23.41 | zerojay | Alrighty. |
| 12:23.46 | timely_changelog | feel free to read throught the rest of the page |
| 12:24.07 | timely_changelog | if you're feeling evil, you can try setting target milestone of "Next" |
| 12:24.15 | zerojay | I'll do that if my kid won't be bothering me. |
| 12:24.17 | zerojay | Hah. |
| 12:24.35 | timely_changelog | (use another bugzilla to find out the field name, and use dom inspector or abuse bugzilla to insert the field into the submission) |
| 12:24.38 | *** join/#maemo celesteh (n=celesteh@82-46-164-232.cable.ubr01.harb.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 12:25.00 | timely_changelog | easiest way to abuse bugzilla is to get jesse's frmget bookmarklet (google it) |
| 12:25.01 | db48x | wow, the tabs in osso-xterm look terrible |
| 12:25.04 | timely_changelog | and then add '@' |
| 12:25.07 | zerojay | Hahaha. |
| 12:25.13 | timely_changelog | to the CC field |
| 12:25.20 | *** join/#maemo _Monkey (n=_Monkey@dsl-217-155-26-150.zen.co.uk) |
| 12:25.23 | timely_changelog | when you submit, you'll have an error, but the url will let you abuse it |
| 12:25.24 | Jiten | I guess my problem isn't too widely known one. I guess I'll try to dig some more. |
| 12:25.32 | timely_changelog | db48x: they're gone in 4.0 |
| 12:25.38 | timely_changelog | thank g-d |
| 12:25.43 | db48x | good |
| 12:25.44 | zerojay | timely_changelog: I think I'll just let you add it properly after it's filed. ;) |
| 12:25.52 | timely_changelog | tabs on maemo are about the dumbest thing imaginable |
| 12:25.53 | db48x | can you launch multiple xterms instead? |
| 12:25.58 | timely_changelog | db48x: um |
| 12:26.12 | timely_changelog | dunno, since xterm isn't on my product image :) |
| 12:26.13 | zerojay | timely_changelog: Agreed.. but everyone keeps bitching for tabbed browsing. |
| 12:26.23 | timely_changelog | but there's a new window option in the app menu |
| 12:26.31 | zerojay | It's as though they want to LOSE more screen space. |
| 12:26.41 | timely_changelog | zerojay: users are clever |
| 12:26.43 | GeneralAntilles | Ha, no, tabs are a fine idea. |
| 12:26.47 | GeneralAntilles | You just have to implement them right. |
| 12:26.55 | GeneralAntilles | For instance: transparency. |
| 12:26.59 | timely_changelog | see... we already have a ui |
| 12:27.05 | timely_changelog | it's this button which keeps changing its icon |
| 12:27.10 | timely_changelog | atm it looks like a house |
| 12:27.16 | timely_changelog | but in the n810 it will look like a square |
| 12:27.19 | timely_changelog | with a shadow |
| 12:27.29 | timely_changelog | press it once, and you get a list of "tabs" |
| 12:27.33 | GeneralAntilles | That's two clicks |
| 12:27.34 | timely_changelog | including 64x54 icons |
| 12:27.35 | GeneralAntilles | I want one click |
| 12:27.46 | sp3000 | timely_changelog: pretty sure it autoconns shouldn't give you dialogs by default? |
| 12:27.50 | snowmoon | if you don't want to loose screen realestate just have the tab bar auto-hide on fullscreen mode |
| 12:28.00 | timely_changelog | sp3000: that'd be logical and reasonable |
| 12:28.02 | sp3000 | since the autoconns are to saved networks, prompting to save would be ...weird |
| 12:28.04 | timely_changelog | but my device disagrees |
| 12:28.04 | GeneralAntilles | Just make the tab background transparent. |
| 12:28.41 | timely_changelog | ok, fwiw, transparency on our device is a big cpu killer |
| 12:28.54 | sp3000 | timely_changelog: fwiw when I open a link in a new window, I'll then to switch back and would like to know when the new page has loaded |
| 12:28.56 | timely_changelog | so can you just pretend that transparency is both impossible and simply doesn't exist? |
| 12:28.56 | alterego | Heh |
| 12:29.10 | sp3000 | s/then/tend/ |
| 12:29.11 | timely_changelog | sp3000: an info bannner wouldn't make you happy? |
| 12:29.25 | snowmoon | doesn't the TI chip have asmall 3d unit on it? |
| 12:29.26 | sp3000 | timely_changelog: it might |
| 12:29.30 | GeneralAntilles | Then, how about 100% transparent? |
| 12:29.35 | timely_changelog | snowmoon: and no driver for it, yep |
| 12:29.44 | timely_changelog | sp3000: i'll gladly give you that |
| 12:29.47 | zerojay | snowmoon: We don't have access to it and the only driver available is for Linux 2.4. |
| 12:29.53 | timely_changelog | especially if i can trade it for the current "updating" banner ... |
| 12:30.21 | timely_changelog | 100% transparent? sure, as long as i can optimize it away |
| 12:30.28 | timely_changelog | since that means i don't need to do any drawing |
| 12:30.41 | timely_changelog | what's next? |
| 12:31.02 | db48x | is there any way to make 'return' behave properly? |
| 12:31.05 | timely_changelog | hrm, you don't want to be able to click on your 100% transparent tabs, i hope |
| 12:31.14 | timely_changelog | db48x: use the numeric keypad one instead? |
| 12:31.19 | GeneralAntilles | Divider bars and title text |
| 12:31.21 | db48x | that's 'enter' |
| 12:31.27 | db48x | and it's really far away from my pinky |
| 12:31.32 | timely_changelog | it usually does what people want |
| 12:31.35 | timely_changelog | anyway, xmodmap ? |
| 12:31.41 | timely_changelog | just remap return to enter |
| 12:31.54 | db48x | yea, I figured that's how I'd have to do it |
| 12:32.00 | alterego | snowmoon, that it does but it's not utilised yet. |
| 12:32.09 | timely_changelog | yet... |
| 12:32.12 | *** join/#maemo aloisiojr (n=aloisio@189.70.1.141) |
| 12:32.13 | db48x | I was hoping to just be able to disable the on screen keyboard thing that pops up instead |
| 12:32.15 | timely_changelog | you assume i will ever be used |
| 12:32.25 | timely_changelog | db48x: tell your sdk you're an n810 |
| 12:32.34 | GeneralAntilles | Actually, really, if I could just change something to "Open in new background window" I'd be happy. |
| 12:32.43 | timely_changelog | it doesn't open the vkb by default if you're an n810 |
| 12:32.53 | db48x | timely_changelog: mmm. how do I go about doing that? |
| 12:33.04 | timely_changelog | maemo.org/api_refs/4.0/ |
| 12:33.09 | timely_changelog | good question :) |
| 12:33.30 | sp3000 | meh, it doesn't have what I was looking for |
| 12:33.49 | timely_changelog | db48x: try control panel/text input settings |
| 12:33.49 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (n=tso@192.84-49-130.nextgentel.com) |
| 12:34.04 | timely_changelog | under on screen, i have "enable stylus input methods" |
| 12:34.11 | timely_changelog | if you have that, you can uncheck i |
| 12:34.30 | timely_changelog | if you don't, get a vpn and ask swift to help you find out the logic it uses :) |
| 12:35.03 | timely_changelog | ok... |
| 12:35.07 | timely_changelog | anyone here have microb? |
| 12:35.11 | db48x | no, I don't have that |
| 12:35.12 | GeneralAntilles | Yup |
| 12:35.18 | timely_changelog | in about: |
| 12:35.21 | db48x | I do have microb though |
| 12:35.25 | timely_changelog | do you have something abou "internal settings" |
| 12:35.30 | timely_changelog | db48x: if you're using trunk, i don't care |
| 12:35.36 | timely_changelog | i need latest release i think |
| 12:36.16 | db48x | I've still got the release version on my n800 |
| 12:36.23 | timely_changelog | oh, ok |
| 12:36.26 | timely_changelog | check about: :) |
| 12:36.27 | db48x | it does not have anything about internal settings |
| 12:36.32 | zerojay | timely_changelog: I don't see anything about internal settings either. |
| 12:36.34 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah, nothing. |
| 12:36.38 | timely_changelog | ok, good |
| 12:36.39 | db48x | it's got a link to about:config though |
| 12:36.45 | timely_changelog | err |
| 12:36.57 | zerojay | See the build config used in this version... |
| 12:37.02 | timely_changelog | same for the rest of you? |
| 12:37.08 | timely_changelog | about:config is what i'm asking about |
| 12:37.21 | db48x | heh, the link to the release notes is missing |
| 12:37.29 | timely_changelog | yeah |
| 12:37.36 | timely_changelog | i suppose we could try fixing that someday |
| 12:37.40 | db48x | the text is 'See the prefs config for this version' |
| 12:37.41 | timely_changelog | especially since i do write them |
| 12:38.15 | db48x | is the release version really based on 3.0a1? |
| 12:38.33 | timely_changelog | i think we always forge the useragentn |
| 12:38.48 | timely_changelog | it's based on something from this summer |
| 12:39.08 | db48x | the gecko version number is a6pre |
| 12:39.23 | db48x | they should at least be in sync :) |
| 12:39.32 | timely_changelog | why? :) |
| 12:39.44 | timely_changelog | personally, if i'm going to fight the ua |
| 12:39.50 | timely_changelog | i want it to stop violating the ua spec |
| 12:39.52 | db48x | haven't the gecko and firefox alphas been in sync this time around? |
| 12:39.53 | timely_changelog | which it does... |
| 12:40.26 | db48x | I know we're up to 1.9a9pre and 3.0a9pre, respectively |
| 12:40.54 | timely_changelog | fwiw, the reason for channels is because i'm unregistered |
| 12:40.57 | timely_changelog | hence, i can't /msg |
| 12:41.20 | db48x | yea, freenode is annyoing |
| 12:41.23 | db48x | annoying |
| 12:41.23 | _Monkey | annoying are things that require 2.4 as a dependancy. i cba to hack them onto the device |
| 12:41.39 | sp3000 | >_< |
| 12:41.42 | zerojay | Annoying is that bot. |
| 12:41.50 | db48x | heh |
| 12:41.58 | timely_changelog | _monkey forget annoying |
| 12:41.59 | _Monkey | timely_changelog: I forgot annoying |
| 12:42.06 | timely_changelog | _monkey annoying is <reply> |
| 12:42.07 | _Monkey | OK, timely_changelog. |
| 12:42.14 | *** join/#maemo mazzen (n=mortel@u30-237.dsl.vianetworks.de) |
| 12:43.52 | db48x | doh |
| 12:43.59 | *** join/#maemo guerby (n=guerby@gut75-4-82-235-162-148.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 12:44.05 | db48x | what was I thinking when I checked this out anonymously? |
| 12:44.36 | timely_changelog | heh |
| 12:46.55 | snowmoon | any way to default new app windows ( not dialogs ) to be fullscreen on the 770 |
| 12:47.42 | zerojay | timely_changelog: Aww, the Maemo bugzilla doesn't inline image attachments. ;/ |
| 12:48.36 | zerojay | timely_changelog: 2148 if you want to throw in the evil Next milestone. |
| 12:50.08 | zerojay | The N810 release is going to be a fun time on Bugzilla. |
| 12:50.18 | zerojay | Tons of shit to do, check, verify... |
| 12:50.31 | timely_changelog | you assume someone will do a decent job of resolving bugs |
| 12:50.37 | timely_changelog | is tha reasonable? |
| 12:50.52 | zerojay | Considering how many open bugs there are, probably not. |
| 12:51.22 | Jaffa | Historical evidence would not suggest it is something Nokia engineers/QA will do. |
| 12:51.45 | zerojay | I'd do it, but I'm not Nokia and I don't want my wrist slapped for doing so. |
| 12:52.02 | timely_changelog | zerojay: talk to quim |
| 12:52.11 | timely_changelog | they recently undid my effors to grant editbugs |
| 12:52.16 | timely_changelog | explain you know what you're doing |
| 12:52.23 | Jaffa | No, I think it's exactly the kind of thing the community should do if Nokia aren't going to. |
| 12:52.31 | Jaffa | Ah, but that's dependent on still having editbugs. |
| 12:52.38 | zerojay | I have editbugs. |
| 12:52.38 | timely_changelog | right :( |
| 12:52.42 | timely_changelog | oh good |
| 12:52.49 | timely_changelog | because someone said they removed most of those bits |
| 12:53.02 | zerojay | Yeah, I still have it. |
| 12:53.06 | timely_changelog | anyway, i'd suggest contacting quim to make sure he's ok w/ it |
| 12:53.14 | zerojay | Yeah, of course. |
| 12:53.15 | timely_changelog | he absolutely should be, but... |
| 12:53.15 | db48x | what would they get out of doing that? |
| 12:53.33 | timely_changelog | anyway, i need to talk to quim about enabling milestones |
| 12:53.46 | zerojay | db48x: Cleaner bugzilla helps everyone. |
| 12:54.14 | db48x | no, what would they get out of removing editbugs from a bunch of accounts? |
| 12:54.33 | zerojay | I guess one of my previous bugs might have scared them into doing it. |
| 12:54.45 | timely_changelog | yes |
| 12:54.50 | timely_changelog | well, no |
| 12:54.51 | timely_changelog | not sure |
| 12:54.59 | timely_changelog | since the case in question was a nokian |
| 12:55.03 | timely_changelog | and hence it shouldn't have :) |
| 12:55.17 | zerojay | Well, maybe it woke them up to the possibility. |
| 12:55.23 | timely_changelog | and they were at work, there's no way for them not to be able to figure out he's a nokian |
| 12:55.35 | timely_changelog | your bugs are definitely driving some of the pieces |
| 12:55.42 | timely_changelog | btw, jaffa/zerojay/someone |
| 12:55.51 | timely_changelog | any idea how to look at other people's profiles in maemo.org? |
| 12:56.05 | Jaffa | I was wondering that too, I assume it's supposed to be possible. |
| 12:56.12 | zerojay | I haven't seen anything, but i haven't looked much yet. |
| 12:56.20 | timely_changelog | if you can guess the username |
| 12:56.22 | timely_changelog | you can: |
| 12:56.24 | timely_changelog | https://maemo.org/profile/view/qgil.html |
| 12:56.35 | Jaffa | Right. But no search? |
| 12:56.37 | timely_changelog | https://maemo.org/profile/view/timeless.html |
| 12:56.43 | zerojay | timely_changelog: I just hope my bugs are driving something positive. |
| 12:57.07 | timely_changelog | jaffa: i certainly haven't found it |
| 12:57.16 | timely_changelog | https://maemo.org/profile/view/timeless.html |
| 12:57.25 | timely_changelog | zerojay: drive everyone to use ohloh ! |
| 12:57.41 | *** join/#maemo alterego (n=alterego@88-110-143-150.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 12:57.54 | timely_changelog | :) |
| 12:57.58 | db48x | hmm |
| 12:58.05 | db48x | been a while since I looked at ohloh |
| 12:58.08 | zerojay | timely_changelog: Ohloh's developer specific though, isn't it? |
| 12:58.09 | timely_changelog | load the link from mine https://maemo.org/profile/view/timeless.html |
| 12:58.20 | timely_changelog | zerojay: well, mostly, i suppose |
| 12:58.28 | timely_changelog | but you can just sign up and select stacks |
| 12:58.37 | timely_changelog | which basically is a way of saying what you use |
| 12:58.38 | zerojay | Where's this new changelog? |
| 12:58.46 | timely_changelog | it's unfinished/unpublished |
| 12:58.58 | timely_changelog | it's in the same style as browser/news/4 and will be browser/news/9 |
| 12:59.05 | timely_changelog | but it's a few hundred lines from done |
| 12:59.18 | timely_changelog | there's not much point in collecting feedback on it atm |
| 12:59.30 | zerojay | Well, anything that gives us more information can't be bad. |
| 12:59.47 | *** join/#maemo sx|lappy (n=sxpert@LSt-Amand-152-31-6-115.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 12:59.48 | timely_changelog | https://maemo.org/profile/__ais/folder/move/85a549e4057311dcb8e1f74febf87b497b49.html |
| 12:59.52 | timely_changelog | Server Error |
| 12:59.52 | timely_changelog | Error 500 |
| 12:59.52 | timely_changelog | maemo.org |
| 12:59.53 | timely_changelog | Sun, 21 Oct 2007 15:59:42 +0300 |
| 12:59.53 | timely_changelog | Apache/2.2.3 (Debian) DAV/2 PHP/5.2.0-8+etch7 mod_ssl/2.2.3 OpenSSL/0.9.8c Midgard/1.8.4 |
| 12:59.55 | timely_changelog | nice |
| 13:00.00 | db48x | heh, I tried to edit my maemo.org profile and was told I don't have the right permissions |
| 13:00.01 | timely_changelog | try loading: |
| 13:00.02 | timely_changelog | https://maemo.org/profile/socialweb/ |
| 13:00.10 | timely_changelog | db48x: lol |
| 13:00.21 | jumpula | it does that sometimes |
| 13:00.28 | jumpula | try shift+reload? |
| 13:00.29 | timely_changelog | from that page, hover over the midguard bar [page] |
| 13:00.33 | timely_changelog | then click move |
| 13:00.47 | timely_changelog | jumpula: this action is designed to fail |
| 13:00.47 | Jaffa | Bang :) |
| 13:00.53 | timely_changelog | someone file a bug? :) |
| 13:01.04 | timely_changelog | (just one, coordinate, no dupes needed...) |
| 13:01.14 | timely_changelog | jumpula: i'm evil when i'm not busy |
| 13:01.25 | jumpula | timely_changelog: perhaps. but anyway, if you want your profile page now, it's worth to try. |
| 13:02.19 | timely_changelog | want it? |
| 13:02.25 | timely_changelog | i was just trying to break things |
| 13:02.30 | timely_changelog | i already have a profile page |
| 13:02.36 | timely_changelog | db48x is the one who can't edit his |
| 13:02.57 | jumpula | yeah. but you're the one that commented the action will fail. |
| 13:03.11 | alterego | Is the N810 case hard or soft? |
| 13:03.12 | timely_changelog | the action is nonsensical |
| 13:03.14 | db48x | oh, you mean that floating bar thingy |
| 13:03.17 | db48x | I had stopped seeing that |
| 13:03.22 | timely_changelog | alterego: same soft case as n800 |
| 13:03.25 | timely_changelog | different color |
| 13:03.40 | jumpula | timely_changelog: does it matter if it gets you the thing you want? |
| 13:03.41 | alterego | Ooo .. What color? |
| 13:04.03 | alterego | My N800 case is well worn O_O |
| 13:04.21 | timely_changelog | jumpula: i'm looking for things that break |
| 13:04.25 | timely_changelog | what i wanted was something that broke |
| 13:04.26 | timely_changelog | i got it |
| 13:04.33 | zerojay | Anyone already filing that midgard bug? |
| 13:06.32 | timely_changelog | zerojay: i think i'll send you a shirt at the end of the month |
| 13:06.52 | timely_changelog | friend of bugs.maemo.org :) |
| 13:07.00 | alterego | :) |
| 13:07.05 | alterego | Awww |
| 13:07.23 | Jaffa | Gotta count towards an N810 discount :) |
| 13:07.31 | zerojay | zerojay: I'd appreciate that. heh.. I'll wear it to work and surprise a few people. "What? You mean there are OTHER bugzillas?" |
| 13:08.16 | zerojay | Jaffa: Hah, I hope. A friend of mine said he'll straight buy the N810 for me if I get the discount and send him my (battle-scarred) N800. |
| 13:09.44 | timely_changelog | the shirt doesn't actually say bugs.maemo.org |
| 13:10.02 | timely_changelog | it's the one pictured in http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/7/ |
| 13:10.25 | zerojay | Awesome. |
| 13:10.26 | timely_changelog | the bugzilla shirts i can get cost money |
| 13:10.30 | sp3000 | (tablet not included.) |
| 13:10.38 | zerojay | Hope you have them in my size. Heh. |
| 13:10.45 | timely_changelog | i only have XL iirc |
| 13:10.47 | timely_changelog | hope that's ok |
| 13:10.48 | alterego | Hah |
| 13:10.58 | zerojay | ...I'll make it work. ;P |
| 13:11.23 | timely_changelog | fwiw, i'm not above giving away n800s |
| 13:11.30 | timely_changelog | (or other similar hardware) |
| 13:11.36 | timely_changelog | but i need a slightly better business reason :) |
| 13:11.41 | alterego | Heh |
| 13:12.04 | zerojay | timely_changelog: Haha.. well, I'll work on that. ;) |
| 13:12.20 | zerojay | RTCOMM video calling bugs? ;) |
| 13:12.40 | timely_changelog | i'm browser team, if you want them to send you a device, i can get you a contact :) |
| 13:12.45 | alterego | I need a unit I can continually stuff as I'm experimenting with ruby-maemo |
| 13:12.59 | *** join/#maemo Thana` (n=Enlighte@228.Red-81-32-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 13:13.00 | timely_changelog | alterego: use quim's grant |
| 13:13.07 | alterego | What's that? |
| 13:13.16 | timely_changelog | most likely devices i'd have would be his leftover's anyway |
| 13:13.18 | alterego | quim is a dev right? |
| 13:13.20 | timely_changelog | tha's what happened last ime around |
| 13:13.26 | zerojay | timely_changelog: Sure, but I feel a little weird sending them an e-mail and saying "hey, I filed a few bugs on RTCOMM... send me some shit." ;) |
| 13:13.26 | timely_changelog | quim's the maemo.org coordinator |
| 13:13.37 | alterego | Ah |
| 13:13.42 | alterego | Cool |
| 13:13.49 | timely_changelog | i'm sure he has a better title than that |
| 13:13.52 | timely_changelog | hrm |
| 13:13.54 | alterego | God? |
| 13:13.55 | zerojay | timely_changelog: But sure, send me a contact if you've got one. |
| 13:14.06 | alterego | "The mad" ? |
| 13:14.10 | alterego | s/mad/man/ |
| 13:14.26 | timely_changelog | zerojay: got the url for the bug where i described roles instead of simply "Nokian"? |
| 13:14.32 | timely_changelog | preferably #c format |
| 13:14.34 | zerojay | 2035, I believe. |
| 13:15.13 | timely_changelog | yes |
| 13:15.23 | timely_changelog | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2035#c3 |
| 13:15.25 | timely_changelog | somewhere in there |
| 13:15.42 | snowmoon | damn, why is the UI so heavy... just restarted and it's got 6mb free memory |
| 13:15.50 | timely_changelog | search for "For Quim, this would be something like:" |
| 13:15.57 | snowmoon | no wonder the web keeps crashing |
| 13:16.06 | *** join/#maemo _Monkey (n=_Monkey@dsl-217-155-26-150.zen.co.uk) |
| 13:16.09 | timely_changelog | /topic #maemo <snowmoon:#maemo> no wonder the web keeps crashing |
| 13:16.27 | timely_changelog | but why is _Monkey crashing? |
| 13:17.12 | zerojay | timely_changelog: Filling in my own details to give them less of a reason to say no? |
| 13:17.50 | timely_changelog | zerojay: sorry, which context are we in? |
| 13:17.54 | zerojay | I wouldn't be surprised if the box it's running on is killing it's process because it's taking up too much CPU time due to the logs he's parsing now being bigger. |
| 13:18.06 | *** join/#maemo florian_ (n=fuchs@f048034167.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 13:18.21 | timely_changelog | oh, you mean _Monkey? |
| 13:18.35 | zerojay | For that last sentence, yes. |
| 13:19.10 | zerojay | Oh, it's probably just running on Milhouse's home box, never mind. |
| 13:19.10 | *** join/#maemo florian (n=fuchs@f048034167.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 13:19.13 | timely_changelog | this is so wrong |
| 13:22.35 | *** join/#maemo k-s (n=gustavo@189.70.209.253) |
| 13:22.36 | zerojay | Hm. |
| 13:23.00 | timely_changelog | this bug is the "should we break acid2" bug |
| 13:23.18 | zerojay | I assume the Move command in Midgard's bar is supposed to allow you to move the page to a different URL/place.. I've never used it, so I'm not entirely sure. |
| 13:23.40 | timely_changelog | expected results: No crash. Unsure beyond that |
| 13:24.01 | zerojay | Yeah, a more graceful error message or just disabling the command for pages that shouldn't be moved. |
| 13:24.02 | timely_changelog | while i have users around |
| 13:24.11 | czr | heh timely. nice. |
| 13:24.18 | timely_changelog | which bookmarks do people use? |
| 13:24.25 | czr | expected results: it works. <3. |
| 13:24.29 | zerojay | Just in general? |
| 13:24.33 | timely_changelog | sure |
| 13:24.39 | zerojay | czr: I kill people that put that on our bugzilla. |
| 13:24.55 | czr | zerojay, it seems a logical response to many people :-) |
| 13:24.56 | *** join/#maemo zwnj (n=behnam@213.207.210.231) |
| 13:25.10 | czr | timely_changelog, lwn.net |
| 13:25.11 | czr | lxr too. |
| 13:25.18 | timely_changelog | you use lxr? which? |
| 13:25.24 | zerojay | timely_changelog: Digg, NME, MaxConsole, PS2Dev... |
| 13:25.28 | czr | http://lxr.linux.no/source/ |
| 13:25.33 | timely_changelog | oh wow |
| 13:25.51 | timely_changelog | czr: have you played w/ timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/ ? |
| 13:26.05 | czr | timely_changelog, nope. will take a look |
| 13:26.23 | timely_changelog | sp3000: fwiw i ran into a big error w/ sardine, i think i have a fixed version i can push, but i need to be more careful when i check before pushing |
| 13:27.43 | czr | timely_changelog, no useful search though :-) |
| 13:28.28 | timely_changelog | czr: eh? |
| 13:28.49 | czr | hmm. maybe I misunderstood. it recurses? |
| 13:29.39 | timely_changelog | czr: it's something like 8gb of data |
| 13:29.47 | timely_changelog | searching from the top w/o a hint is mean |
| 13:29.53 | czr | how's the search implemented? |
| 13:30.02 | timely_changelog | however, entering "about:config" into http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/source/browser/mozilla/trunk/ 's search |
| 13:30.09 | timely_changelog | yields: |
| 13:30.10 | timely_changelog | Found 9 matching lines in 4 files |
| 13:30.10 | timely_changelog | about:config |
| 13:30.11 | _Monkey | it has been said that about:config is one |
| 13:30.19 | timely_changelog | and not such bad hits either |
| 13:30.27 | timely_changelog | _monkey forget about:config |
| 13:30.28 | _Monkey | timely_changelog: I forgot about:config |
| 13:30.35 | timely_changelog | _monkey about:config is <reply> |
| 13:30.35 | _Monkey | OK, timely_changelog. |
| 13:31.10 | timely_changelog | search is still based on glimpse |
| 13:31.30 | czr | right |
| 13:31.33 | timely_changelog | db48x: you have a trunk microb, right? |
| 13:31.33 | czr | not bad |
| 13:31.41 | timely_changelog | does it pass acid2? |
| 13:31.55 | db48x | it's kindof old, but I can try it |
| 13:32.05 | db48x | gotta start up that VM first though |
| 13:35.56 | timely_changelog | i'm assuming it's nsIPromptService.select or something |
| 13:37.53 | *** join/#maemo atmasphere (n=atmasphe@ool-4578ecb2.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 13:37.55 | timely_changelog | "storage" isn't in w41\s about:buildconfig |
| 13:38.04 | db48x | could be, but make up your mind which channel you want to talk about it in :) |
| 13:38.05 | timely_changelog | so that means whatever the default microb buildconfig is |
| 13:38.23 | atmasphere | test |
| 13:38.24 | timely_changelog | bah |
| 13:38.37 | zerojay | atmasphere: Test failed. |
| 13:38.46 | atmasphere | hello |
| 13:38.47 | _Monkey | hello, atmasphere |
| 13:38.49 | zerojay | Hi. |
| 13:38.52 | atmasphere | just testing |
| 13:39.01 | db48x | well, hrm |
| 13:39.01 | zerojay | ;) |
| 13:39.09 | db48x | I may have broken my trunk build at some point |
| 13:39.11 | zerojay | atmasphere: A IT2008 version of Xchat? |
| 13:39.15 | atmasphere | on the N810... |
| 13:39.19 | db48x | or my scratchbox environment |
| 13:39.21 | zerojay | An, I mean. |
| 13:40.21 | *** join/#maemo fsmw (n=Fernando@124-79-112.adsl.terra.cl) |
| 13:40.24 | zerojay | atmasphere: I can't wait to be pounding those chicklets myself soon... I hope. |
| 13:41.00 | db48x | does anyone here VNC into their n800? |
| 13:41.19 | atmasphere | i have db48x... |
| 13:41.41 | db48x | atmasphere: did you notice that clicking on the toolbar doesn't do anything over vnc? |
| 13:41.46 | zerojay | VNC in instead of VNC from? |
| 13:42.03 | db48x | ah, microb is working after all. it just took ages to start up |
| 13:42.06 | db48x | VNC in |
| 13:42.14 | atmasphere | not that i recall ... it was essentially a virtual machine |
| 13:42.42 | atmasphere | though my n800 is acting odd after the last firmware now |
| 13:43.06 | *** join/#maemo ryanfaerman (n=ryanfaer@crlspr-69.65.71.237.myacc.net) |
| 13:43.11 | atmasphere | guess it will be hanging out anyway with the N810 here ;) |
| 13:43.40 | timely_changelog | db48x: do you remember.... |
| 13:43.45 | db48x | timely_changelog: yes, it passes acid2 |
| 13:44.09 | timely_changelog | oh good |
| 13:45.38 | timely_changelog | do you remember Egghead? |
| 13:45.49 | db48x | [sbox-SDK_X86: ~/browser] > svn up |
| 13:45.50 | db48x | svn: This client is too old to work with working copy ''; please get a newer Subversion client |
| 13:46.06 | db48x | Egghead? can't say I do |
| 13:46.16 | timely_changelog | (tvseries<batman>, not store<software>) |
| 13:46.21 | timely_changelog | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egghead_(Batman) |
| 13:46.58 | db48x | no |
| 13:47.02 | *** join/#maemo trunneml_ (n=trunneml@dslb-084-056-171-130.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 13:47.02 | db48x | I never really watched that |
| 13:47.15 | trunneml_ | Hi |
| 13:48.06 | trunneml_ | have any buddy here expierens in developing dbus applications? |
| 13:51.04 | db48x | timely_changelog: so what about egghead? |
| 13:52.22 | *** part/#maemo atmasphere (n=atmasphe@ool-4578ecb2.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 13:53.36 | db48x | scratchbox is very annoying |
| 13:53.45 | trunneml_ | yes |
| 13:55.07 | zerojay | At least you probably aren't running it in a 32-bit chroot on a 64-bit machine. :/ |
| 13:55.47 | cosmo | db48x: use svn outside scratchbox |
| 13:58.00 | czr | trunneml_, hey |
| 13:58.05 | trunneml_ | hi |
| 13:58.06 | _Monkey | hi, trunneml_ |
| 13:58.06 | czr | trunneml_, just answered to your email |
| 13:58.14 | trunneml_ | oh nice |
| 13:58.43 | trunneml_ | aleksandr? |
| 13:58.48 | czr | o/ |
| 13:58.48 | *** join/#maemo sx|lappy (n=sxpert@LSt-Amand-152-31-6-115.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 13:58.59 | czr | yes :-) |
| 13:59.38 | trunneml_ | okay I will try |
| 14:00.09 | trunneml_ | the mail arrived now |
| 14:00.56 | *** join/#maemo konttori (n=konttori@a88-114-91-19.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 14:04.19 | *** join/#maemo guerby (n=guerby@gut75-4-82-235-162-148.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 14:07.57 | *** join/#maemo lopz (n=gentoo-D@unaffiliated/lopz) |
| 14:08.21 | lopz | hi |
| 14:08.21 | _Monkey | bonjour, lopz |
| 14:15.15 | *** join/#maemo playya (n=playya@ubucon.hochschule-niederrhein.de) |
| 14:22.02 | *** join/#maemo lmoura (n=lmoura@189.13.179.30) |
| 14:22.36 | *** join/#maemo guru3 (n=guru3@2002:5ae3:8196:1:0:0:0:1) |
| 14:25.35 | alterego | I need a test osso service to run >:( |
| 14:27.00 | trunneml_ | czr? |
| 14:27.27 | alterego | Yes gone to the office. |
| 14:27.34 | alterego | s/Yes/He's/ |
| 14:28.04 | trunneml_ | oh |
| 14:28.31 | trunneml_ | okay can some one else can help me with a dbus problem? |
| 14:28.40 | alterego | trunneml_, what's that? |
| 14:29.01 | *** join/#maemo guru3 (n=guru3@2002:5ae3:8196:1:0:0:0:1) |
| 14:29.12 | trunneml_ | I try to write a small app that has a dbus methode |
| 14:29.22 | trunneml_ | I have it running in ubuntu |
| 14:29.33 | alterego | Right |
| 14:29.36 | trunneml_ | but on the n800 I can not call that function |
| 14:29.51 | alterego | Are you initializing osso correctly? |
| 14:29.56 | trunneml_ | the calling app freezes until timeout |
| 14:30.02 | trunneml_ | no osso |
| 14:30.08 | trunneml_ | glibc and dbus |
| 14:30.17 | alterego | How is the program executed console? |
| 14:30.25 | trunneml_ | yes |
| 14:30.45 | alterego | Hmm, well I'm not sure I can help you there :) |
| 14:30.50 | alterego | Sorry |
| 14:30.56 | trunneml_ | no problem |
| 14:32.26 | *** join/#maemo Zword (n=Zword@bos94-3-82-226-234-106.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 14:42.28 | trunneml_ | does anyone know an application that has a dbus methode? Or has a libosso sample for a dbus methode? |
| 14:46.34 | timely_changelog | browser listens to dbus... |
| 14:46.43 | timely_changelog | no sure about methodE |
| 14:48.01 | trunneml_ | okay |
| 14:49.01 | zerojay | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1740 - I guess this is the kind of thing you were talking about earlier, timely_changelog. |
| 14:49.23 | zerojay | Bug apparently fixed on IT2008... no resolution on the bug though. |
| 14:59.13 | *** join/#maemo Dregz (n=Dregs@unaffiliated/dregz) |
| 15:00.27 | *** join/#maemo MoRpHeUz (n=morphbr@200.184.118.132) |
| 15:05.28 | zoran | some1 used nokia phones to connect 770/800 via bluetooth? I read reviews about 6120. |
| 15:05.58 | *** join/#maemo k-s (n=gustavo@189.70.209.253) |
| 15:06.25 | script_ | zoran: 6230i worked fine here |
| 15:06.31 | *** join/#maemo satd (n=silivay@bas19-toronto12-1167854966.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 15:07.05 | timely_changelog | 9300i/9500/e61i all work |
| 15:07.07 | zoran | script_, gonna surf for it now |
| 15:07.30 | zoran | hm, 6120 is under E200 now |
| 15:07.47 | zoran | and I see report about heating |
| 15:09.06 | suihkulokki | heating what? |
| 15:09.28 | zoran | seems that battery BL-5C makes phone hot |
| 15:09.44 | zoran | in my region it it 5B, as I see it correctly |
| 15:10.22 | suihkulokki | 6120 does not take BL-5C so whatever you are reading is bullshit |
| 15:10.30 | alterego | Anyone recommend a good phone? |
| 15:10.31 | zoran | :) |
| 15:10.42 | alterego | I suppose I really should get a new one and stop being so cheap about it ^_^ |
| 15:10.45 | timely_changelog | i recommend bad phones |
| 15:10.52 | suihkulokki | bluetooth is standard, pretty much everything except locked phones and windows mobile phones (suprise, microsoft incompatible?) may not work |
| 15:11.01 | GeneralAntilles | I like my Samsung SGH-A717 for the HSDPA |
| 15:11.05 | GeneralAntilles | but short battery life |
| 15:11.09 | alterego | Hmm, |
| 15:11.16 | GeneralAntilles | Nice and small, though. |
| 15:11.25 | GeneralAntilles | Fairly cheap with contract discounts. |
| 15:11.30 | alterego | Ideally I'd like another S60 phone. |
| 15:11.40 | alterego | Or S90 ^_^ |
| 15:12.06 | zoran | hey, talk about it! |
| 15:12.07 | alterego | I have a couple of apps I want to write to integrate the internet tablets with handsets. |
| 15:12.33 | GeneralAntilles | on-screen caller-id would be pretty cool. |
| 15:12.35 | zoran | so no warm as blond in a tub? |
| 15:13.06 | *** join/#maemo Gray9Mar_ (i=surf@gateway/tor/x-5328d44b756bb12b) |
| 15:13.30 | zoran | suihkulokki, does it have answering machine? |
| 15:13.31 | alterego | Meh, I suppose I don't really have the money right now to get a new phone. If I'm gonna be forking out for the N810 |
| 15:13.53 | alterego | I'll put it on the backburner and maybe do it later on. |
| 15:14.04 | suihkulokki | zoran: the answering machine is the feature of the phone network |
| 15:14.13 | zoran | k |
| 15:14.40 | zoran | happy with 6120 or looking for something else? |
| 15:15.19 | suihkulokki | zoran: battery life could be better (same old song), but other than that I'm happy |
| 15:15.22 | alterego | Blasphemy! |
| 15:16.00 | GeneralAntilles | I, for one, don't want to pay $250 for a keyboard. |
| 15:16.27 | zoran | said should be 9 days at no talk mode |
| 15:16.33 | GeneralAntilles | Perhaps, but I find the fullscreen thumbboard very usable. |
| 15:16.35 | GeneralAntilles | 40wpm |
| 15:16.40 | alterego | I suppose $250 for a thumb board and GPS is pretty steap. |
| 15:16.58 | *** join/#maemo sciboy (n=sciboy@124-171-244-32.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 15:17.09 | GeneralAntilles | Losing the extra storage would be a big hit for me, too. |
| 15:17.20 | konttori | Yeah, for owners of n800 it may not make perfect sense. For some it's good, for some its better to stick with n800. |
| 15:17.21 | alterego | I just don't like sacrificing screen space for onscreen keyboards. Especially in landscape. |
| 15:17.56 | timely_changelog | the reason to buy the n810 is for a screen you can use outside in the sun |
| 15:17.57 | GeneralAntilles | Hehe, and I don't like sacrificing hundreds of dollars. |
| 15:18.15 | GeneralAntilles | Meh, the N800 screen isn't that bad outside. |
| 15:18.17 | timely_changelog | however, it's impossible for me to test that until May, as there's no Sun scheduled for Heslinki until then |
| 15:18.24 | alterego | GeneralAntilles, it's awefull .. |
| 15:18.30 | timely_changelog | it's worse? |
| 15:18.30 | GeneralAntilles | I'm in Florida |
| 15:18.32 | GeneralAntilles | it's not that bad. |
| 15:18.41 | suihkulokki | zoran: it's been 3-4 days normal usage for me. YMMV. |
| 15:18.51 | zoran | good enough |
| 15:19.06 | zoran | I mostly do not talk :) |
| 15:19.21 | *** join/#maemo b0unc3 (n=b0unc3@217.201.202.43) |
| 15:19.28 | b0unc3 | hello |
| 15:19.29 | _Monkey | salut, b0unc3 |
| 15:19.53 | zerojay | The screen's barely been a problem for me in the sunlight, but when it is, it's a huge pain in the ass... needing to find shade, etc.. |
| 15:20.22 | GeneralAntilles | Either way, transflective and a keyboard still aren't worth $250 |
| 15:20.30 | sciboy | zerojay, Really? My PDA's and laptop screen completely flush out to green. |
| 15:20.45 | sciboy | GeneralAntilles, TRANSREFLECTIVE?!@? OMFG WHERE?~ |
| 15:20.47 | zerojay | sciboy: Okay. So? |
| 15:20.53 | GeneralAntilles | N810 |
| 15:20.57 | sciboy | zerojay, Just good to know. |
| 15:21.00 | zoran | I saw some asus 7 intch laptop for 200 something on the net |
| 15:21.02 | alterego | It's been a long time coming, |
| 15:21.05 | zerojay | I don't care about your PDA... I'm talking about the N800. ;) |
| 15:21.05 | sciboy | WTF, N810 is transreflective. |
| 15:21.07 | GeneralAntilles | eee pc |
| 15:21.09 | alterego | Why they didn't put one in the N800 I'll never know .. |
| 15:21.13 | sciboy | F*** |
| 15:21.21 | timely_changelog | i have to assume it cost money |
| 15:21.31 | sciboy | I thought they just cranked the brightness. |
| 15:21.32 | alterego | Everything costs money. |
| 15:21.37 | alterego | :P |
| 15:21.40 | timely_changelog | i'm not sure how much it's worth, and again, i can't know for something like 8 months |
| 15:21.53 | GeneralAntilles | The Asus has the same resolution as the ITs at almost twice the diagonal length |
| 15:21.56 | timely_changelog | but ask me next june and i'll let you know how much it's worth to me :) |
| 15:21.57 | db48x | why 8 months? |
| 15:21.58 | GeneralAntilles | Which makes it a joke. |
| 15:22.05 | timely_changelog | when's May? |
| 15:22.17 | timely_changelog | that's when there's Sun, and I want a month to study/review/compare |
| 15:22.26 | db48x | oh, heh |
| 15:22.26 | GeneralAntilles | Northern latitudes and sunlight. |
| 15:22.28 | timely_changelog | maybe only 7? |
| 15:23.54 | derf | I'll be in Australia in late January. |
| 15:24.00 | sciboy | alterego, I can let you know about the N800. |
| 15:24.06 | *** join/#maemo kaltsi (n=kaltsi@a88-112-249-20.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 15:24.45 | zoran | alterego would trace flight all down to australia over maps |
| 15:24.54 | alterego | :) |
| 15:24.59 | alterego | with 4 hours battery life? |
| 15:25.02 | alterego | Hah not likely ^_^ |
| 15:25.13 | zoran | I know, you would ask for charger |
| 15:25.40 | zoran | some carriers has it on the seat side |
| 15:25.45 | zoran | *have |
| 15:25.53 | alterego | That would be useful. |
| 15:26.03 | alterego | Though, the GPS may not work. A lot don't work over 99Mph |
| 15:26.12 | celesteh | there's a nice solar charger too |
| 15:26.14 | *** join/#maemo alex-weej (n=alex@cpc1-acto9-0-0-cust931.brnt.cable.ntl.com) |
| 15:26.15 | sciboy | I can't find any info about the N810 being transreflective. |
| 15:26.18 | celesteh | if you're flying in full sun |
| 15:26.27 | zoran | I saw in semtember linux journal about using n800 in flight |
| 15:26.29 | sciboy | Everywhere just says it's 20% brighter than the N800 screen. |
| 15:26.29 | alterego | sciboy, trust me, it is. Check out planet.maemo.org |
| 15:26.29 | celesteh | from soldius |
| 15:26.49 | GeneralAntilles | sciboy, tabletblog.com |
| 15:26.50 | celesteh | the n800 would have a bluetooth dongle gps, though |
| 15:27.06 | GeneralAntilles | My i-blue 737 worked fine on a 737 doing about 480mph. :D |
| 15:27.08 | alterego | Well, I've never actually owned a GPS. |
| 15:27.12 | alterego | My dad has a few. |
| 15:27.21 | alterego | A couple of Garmins. |
| 15:27.24 | flip^ | sciboy: tabletblog has a photo of it being readable in sunlight |
| 15:28.21 | zoran | doc sears from lj coupled n800 with bt gps box and made a map of his flight |
| 15:28.32 | alterego | Cool. |
| 15:28.52 | zoran | also using maps from rep and some proprietary software |
| 15:29.10 | zoran | prop comes with sd cards |
| 15:29.29 | zoran | maps tried to cennect the internet too often |
| 15:29.40 | alterego | I'm gonna write a program that periodically turns on GPS for a few minutes. Waits for a fix or timeout, if it's near a recognized wifi zone it'll login and download my email :) |
| 15:29.47 | GeneralAntilles | I was going to do that on my trip to San Francisco with Maemo Mapper, but didn't want any of the flight attendants freaking out about the GPS. :D |
| 15:29.47 | zoran | not so easy at 30000 feet |
| 15:29.48 | alterego | Then make some gay sound effect. |
| 15:29.51 | sciboy | Damn.... |
| 15:29.52 | _Monkey | it has been said that damn is a very sad thing to say |
| 15:30.22 | derf | Why would you bother with GPS? |
| 15:30.32 | sciboy | Well at least I know I have something to upgrade to in the future. |
| 15:30.38 | derf | If you're near a recognized WiFi zone, you're near a recognized WiFi zone. |
| 15:30.45 | alterego | Good point. |
| 15:31.05 | zerojay | And the N800 already checks e-mail automatically once connected so... |
| 15:31.13 | alterego | Yes, that I know. |
| 15:31.14 | zoran | huh |
| 15:31.23 | zoran | is it good? |
| 15:31.34 | alterego | The N800 email app is a POS |
| 15:31.37 | zerojay | Unless you want to blacklist some hotspots. |
| 15:31.41 | alterego | Usable but crap. |
| 15:31.45 | zerojay | Works for me. |
| 15:31.53 | derf | It can't even open my inbox. |
| 15:31.59 | derf | Fills up all of RAM and then crashes. |
| 15:32.04 | zoran | imap? |
| 15:32.05 | alterego | Heh |
| 15:32.07 | derf | Yes. |
| 15:32.11 | db48x | or subscribe to IMAP folders, apparently |
| 15:32.12 | zerojay | I'm not a heavy e-mail user.. I'm not a business user, so for me, it's more than enough. |
| 15:32.15 | alterego | Well, IMAP works for me. |
| 15:32.15 | zoran | mutt works fine with that |
| 15:32.19 | GeneralAntilles | It amazes me that after 2 years we still don't have a decent e-mail app. |
| 15:32.28 | zerojay | Modest is coming. |
| 15:32.29 | zoran | mutt |
| 15:32.37 | alterego | What's Modest? |
| 15:32.38 | _Monkey | hmmm... Modest is an email client built on libtinymail |
| 15:32.44 | alterego | Oooo |
| 15:32.45 | zerojay | Bingo. |
| 15:32.53 | derf | I run my own webmail server. |
| 15:32.54 | alterego | Neat |
| 15:32.56 | derf | So I can deal. |
| 15:33.11 | alterego | Web mail is for girls and emos :P |
| 15:33.14 | zerojay | alterego: http://modest.garage.maemo.org/ |
| 15:33.14 | db48x | I couldn't imagine using my email client on the n800 |
| 15:33.26 | GeneralAntilles | Actually, I haven't touched the e-mail client since OS2005, so it may have gotten better. |
| 15:33.39 | derf | Web mail is for people whose work blocks imap ports. |
| 15:33.45 | alterego | Mutt is the mail client of choice for me :) |
| 15:33.50 | zoran | I have my system using mutt and getmail |
| 15:33.53 | zerojay | The one and only problem I have with the e-mail client is that it sees &s as "s in links. :/ |
| 15:34.23 | zerojay | So confirmation e-mail links usually don't work unless you edit them manually. |
| 15:35.20 | db48x | derf: ssh tunnels cure all ills |
| 15:35.33 | zerojay | db48x: If you don't mind being fired, sure. |
| 15:35.42 | alterego | ssh is the bestest. |
| 15:36.13 | derf | The point is there are still a lot of situations in which you have access to a web browser, and not much else. |
| 15:36.18 | db48x | I could never work somewhere that wouldn't let me use ssh |
| 15:36.38 | zoran | it also has open port, so you could talk to that port in any language yu like |
| 15:36.41 | zerojay | db48x: I guess you don't work in tech, electronics or video games then. |
| 15:36.54 | alterego | I'm not sure I could work anywhere that hindered my internet access. |
| 15:37.08 | db48x | I do work in tech |
| 15:37.12 | zerojay | At my job, only outbound 80 and 443 is allowed. |
| 15:37.19 | alterego | That's horrible. |
| 15:37.20 | zerojay | So I run sshd on 443. ;P |
| 15:37.25 | zerojay | Well, no... it makes sense. |
| 15:37.26 | alterego | I couldn't work under those circumstances. |
| 15:37.39 | *** join/#maemo rene4jazz (n=rene@WLL-40-pppoe090.t-net.net.ve) |
| 15:37.43 | db48x | I suppose if ssh will get you fired, then you could always tunnel the traffic over dns or something |
| 15:37.43 | alterego | All the fiddling just to get out onto the net. |
| 15:37.50 | zerojay | When you have major security concerns, it's really important. |
| 15:37.55 | derf | A couple weeks ago I was at a hotel in San Francisco where the only port that worked was 80. |
| 15:38.02 | zerojay | db48x: Yeah, that won't work either. |
| 15:38.02 | derf | I mean, not even 443. |
| 15:38.15 | alterego | Wow, that _is_ horrible. |
| 15:38.23 | alterego | Especially for someplace as trivial as a hotel :) |
| 15:38.31 | zoran | so, one box with service on port 80 could make a thing |
| 15:38.32 | zerojay | Yeah, that's shit. |
| 15:38.38 | derf | I don't think it was intentional... they didn't actually _block_ it. |
| 15:38.49 | derf | But you'd get about 4K of data, and then the connection would die off. |
| 15:39.11 | derf | But everything on port 80 was blazing fast. |
| 15:39.12 | zoran | the rason to have phone and use 810 over it |
| 15:39.15 | db48x | heh |
| 15:39.36 | zerojay | I just use my N800 for most other stuff anyways, so I don't care if work blocks stuff. |
| 15:39.57 | zerojay | Of course, we're not allowed to use wifi either and my N800 technically isn't allowed either, but whatever. |
| 15:40.32 | zoran | for linux or what? |
| 15:40.44 | db48x | yea, I'd go crazy in an environment like that |
| 15:40.47 | alterego | Wow, that's a lot of core dumps .. |
| 15:41.04 | zerojay | But because we're kind of a separate company from Ubisoft now.. the security stuff is less problematic for me anyways. |
| 15:41.15 | zerojay | USB ports are completely banned. |
| 15:41.23 | alterego | ? |
| 15:41.29 | zerojay | They're all blocked off on all PCs normally. |
| 15:41.42 | alterego | Your job sucks :P |
| 15:41.42 | zerojay | Not for us because we HAVE to have them to do stuff like load our games on phones, etc.. |
| 15:41.45 | zerojay | Nope. |
| 15:41.53 | zerojay | It's the best thing ever, honestly. |
| 15:42.05 | zerojay | Most of those rules don't apply to my company anyways. |
| 15:42.10 | alterego | Heh |
| 15:42.26 | alterego | I want a new job. |
| 15:42.30 | zoran | you could always transfer files over port 80 |
| 15:42.31 | zerojay | It's because Ubi is paranoid about people leaking their games, IP, etc.. and it makes total sense. |
| 15:42.38 | alterego | Preferably something involving programming internet tablets :) |
| 15:42.44 | Juhaz | it makes zero sense if http(s) is open |
| 15:42.53 | zerojay | zoran: Everything is logged and they use huge firewalls with packet inspection and all. |
| 15:42.56 | zerojay | It's hardcore stuff. |
| 15:43.09 | alterego | Maybe I could start my own business writing software for internet tablets. |
| 15:43.29 | zoran | nokia would like you |
| 15:43.49 | zerojay | So would most here. |
| 15:43.52 | alterego | Heh |
| 15:44.12 | GeneralAntilles | Software is one thing we can always use more of. |
| 15:44.59 | alterego | Well, once I've got ruby-maemo 1.1 out of the door I'll be able to start writing software :) |
| 15:45.03 | zerojay | I'd like to see some of the software we already have get better. |
| 15:45.04 | alterego | I've got some cool ideas .. |
| 15:45.09 | zerojay | Like all the game ports that were made. |
| 15:45.17 | alterego | I'm not really a big gamer. |
| 15:45.19 | zerojay | A lot of them were just done quick and never touched again. |
| 15:45.27 | alterego | So I'm not that interested in doing that side of things. |
| 15:45.45 | *** join/#maemo b0unc3 (n=b0unc3@217.202.20.45) |
| 15:46.05 | *** join/#maemo philipl (i=1000@c-76-21-109-3.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 15:46.33 | *** join/#maemo simon_ (n=simon@w208.wist.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 15:47.03 | GeneralAntilles | That's what Python is for, no? |
| 15:47.12 | alterego | With any luck ruby-maemo will be out tomorrow. |
| 15:47.24 | alterego | I just need a chance to clean some things up and write more documentation. |
| 15:47.50 | alterego | I've been working on it non-stop since friday morning O_O |
| 15:48.04 | GeneralAntilles | Ouch |
| 15:48.22 | zoran | working on 2006? |
| 15:48.26 | flip^ | I really should get round to learning python, but i'm not impressed with the way they went from 2.4 to 2.5 on maemo, releasing a whole new package rather than upgrading |
| 15:48.34 | alterego | Yeah, I'm starting to slow down now .. |
| 15:49.35 | GeneralAntilles | I'm going to guess there was a good reason for it, flip^, though I don't know it. :D |
| 15:50.48 | zerojay | Probably for the same reason they went to GTK 2.10... more current. |
| 15:51.08 | flip^ | I keep meaning to learn either python or ruby, and the fact that i have a choice there has actually slowed my picking up either |
| 15:53.26 | GeneralAntilles | I'd go with ruby |
| 15:53.29 | GeneralAntilles | Don't care for Python |
| 15:53.40 | zerojay | Agreed. |
| 15:53.53 | tko | what good is ruby without rails? *g* |
| 15:54.02 | zerojay | I can't stand a language where just having whitespace kills everything. |
| 15:54.25 | alterego | Ruby is a really nice language. |
| 15:54.36 | alterego | Personally I think it's a _lot_ nicer than Python. |
| 15:54.46 | GeneralAntilles | Most certainly. |
| 15:54.52 | Mikho | what's so nice about it? |
| 15:54.56 | zoran | perl and python for 770/800 are really winners |
| 15:55.00 | flip^ | what can you actually do with ruby/python though... i mean, when it comes to the crunch, outside api's and documentation, what are they respectively good for doing? |
| 15:55.15 | shapr | Whatever any programming language can do. |
| 15:55.17 | GeneralAntilles | http://tryruby.hobix.com/ |
| 15:55.17 | alterego | They're good at writing programs in. |
| 15:55.27 | shapr | Turing completeness and all that. |
| 15:55.31 | db48x | I wonder how hard it would be to get a cl implementation working on the n800 |
| 15:55.40 | shapr | I want Haskell. |
| 15:55.42 | derf | I don't think you understand the meaning of the word "good". |
| 15:55.46 | alterego | I was toying with porting tinyscheme :) |
| 15:55.52 | alterego | shapr, do it :) |
| 15:55.55 | tko | I just can't be bothered getting annoyed by something like syntax. lisp, python, haskell, braces.. it's just irrelevant |
| 15:56.16 | flip^ | Yes, but php is good for writing whatever prgramming languages can do, but i wouldn't try and write a standalone graphical application in it ... all languages have something they tend to do better at |
| 15:56.22 | alterego | Who's annoyed about syntax? |
| 15:56.24 | GeneralAntilles | Yes, shapr, get to work. :P |
| 15:56.36 | flip^ | or was anyway |
| 15:56.53 | shapr | alterego: Won't happen today :-) |
| 15:56.53 | shapr | flip^: Sure, but php was never designed to be a general purpose programming language, ruby/python/perl are/were. |
| 15:57.02 | shapr | flip^: I've had a Haskell job for a while.. 1.5 years? |
| 15:57.02 | zerojay | eh.. i'm bored. I guess I'll add screenshots to all my bugs. |
| 15:57.21 | alterego | Writing anything in Ruby is fun and easy. It might not be the most efficient implementation but it's fun, and easy. The language stays out of your way and lets you do things how you want to do things. |
| 15:57.25 | alterego | That is why I like ruby. |
| 15:57.29 | GeneralAntilles | time |
| 15:57.39 | GeneralAntilles | Ignore that. |
| 15:57.51 | shapr | alterego: But each person has a different definition of 'stays out of my way' so different people like different languages. |
| 15:57.54 | Mikho | sounds like a commercial |
| 15:58.05 | alterego | :) |
| 15:58.06 | zoran | ruby could be a lot for 770, if some1 has no ext2 partition on mmc |
| 15:58.09 | derf | Everyone also has a different definition of "how you want to do things". |
| 15:58.13 | shapr | yup |
| 15:58.38 | alterego | So could Python. |
| 15:58.38 | derf | And generally, for everything I do efficiency is hugely important. |
| 15:58.58 | alterego | When efficiency is important I write a C extension. |
| 15:59.10 | tko | efficiency first, correctness later? ;-) |
| 15:59.31 | shapr | tko: Are you the tko I used to work with in Tornio? |
| 15:59.48 | tko | shapr: no, I'm in Helsinki |
| 15:59.58 | shapr | tko: Oh ok. |
| 16:00.04 | tko | I might've visited Tornio once. not sure |
| 16:00.13 | alterego | Heh, that memorable aye ;) |
| 16:00.15 | shapr | Not much to see in Tornio. |
| 16:02.38 | Mikho | there's a beer factory there |
| 16:04.08 | shapr | Yeah, I lived right next to it, I got totally sick of the smell of brewing beer. |
| 16:04.12 | shapr | Lapin Kulta |
| 16:04.36 | alterego | If I get this done by the end of this evening. I'm gonna head to the pub and have a few drinks to celebrate :) |
| 16:06.24 | *** join/#maemo kulve (i=kulve@xdsl-179-201.nblnetworks.fi) |
| 16:07.27 | Mikho | been touring the factory three times :) |
| 16:07.29 | *** join/#maemo NickDe (n=fd5ffbab@205.sub-75-215-210.myvzw.com) |
| 16:10.39 | *** join/#maemo niluth_ (n=per@c-c4cbe755.043-44-6b736810.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 16:11.03 | zerojay | Considering how much Nokia mentioned Facebook in their ads and stuff for the N810, you'd think someone would have tested it more. |
| 16:11.15 | flip^ | is it a little dodgy then? |
| 16:11.31 | flip^ | scrabulous was *just* about playable on a n800 i found... very slow though |
| 16:12.00 | zerojay | The links Facebook sends in its notification e-mails don't work because the e-mail client sees a & character and replaces it with a " instead. |
| 16:12.14 | flip^ | shapr: you have a haskell *job*? people actually work with that, outside the uni i work at? |
| 16:12.32 | zerojay | flip^: https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=576 |
| 16:15.52 | flip^ | zerojay: what's wrong in the screenshot? |
| 16:16.13 | zerojay | [12:09] <zerojay> The links Facebook sends in its notification e-mails don't work because the e-mail client sees a & character and replaces it with a " instead. |
| 16:16.20 | flip^ | aah |
| 16:16.21 | flip^ | i see |
| 16:16.29 | zerojay | The " you see in the link shouldn't be there. It should be a &. |
| 16:16.38 | flip^ | i've not touched the built in email client in a long time |
| 16:16.40 | zerojay | Works fine when you replace it manually. |
| 16:16.55 | flip^ | the lack of imap folder subscriptions made it of little use to me |
| 16:17.09 | zerojay | Just one of those stupid things I want to see fixed before IT2008 goes out the door. |
| 16:18.07 | Jiten | is there any package installable on n800 that provides simple embeddable html editor? It'd need to be able to add images, bold/italic/underline and tweak font settings. |
| 16:18.37 | timely_changelog | zerojay: pracically speaking itos2008 is out the door |
| 16:18.44 | timely_changelog | which is why i'm writing relnotes for the browser |
| 16:18.51 | zerojay | timely_changelog: Crap. |
| 16:19.41 | zerojay | This one is a personal favorite of mine. |
| 16:19.43 | zerojay | https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=501 |
| 16:19.48 | timely_changelog | note that the mail client has been in maintenance mode for a while |
| 16:19.57 | timely_changelog | they had hoped to replace it |
| 16:20.24 | timely_changelog | are those track numbers? |
| 16:20.32 | zerojay | Yep. |
| 16:20.42 | zerojay | 187 doesn't fit.. but 188 does. :) |
| 16:21.06 | zerojay | https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=500 |
| 16:21.10 | zerojay | Fucks up at 99+. |
| 16:21.36 | timely_changelog | very nice |
| 16:21.49 | zerojay | That bug is one of the reasons why I think no one's touched the media player either in a while. |
| 16:22.08 | timely_changelog | actually, in theory they work on it |
| 16:22.24 | timely_changelog | in practice, i don't think they have qa who checks the public bugzilla |
| 16:22.50 | *** join/#maemo Dasajev (i=dankkan@kapsi.fi) |
| 16:22.56 | zerojay | I really should give Mr. Gil a nudge then. |
| 16:23.22 | niluth_ | hi, what kind of file manager does maemo use? Some kind of Nautilus or something custom? |
| 16:23.46 | timely_changelog | custom |
| 16:25.03 | niluth_ | alright, would it be interesting with a project that integrates Nautilus with Maemo/GMAE? |
| 16:25.30 | niluth_ | (thinking about applying to the N810 developer program) |
| 16:25.45 | zerojay | Please, please, please keep Nautilus as far away from our tablets as possible. :~( |
| 16:25.59 | niluth_ | heavyweight? |
| 16:26.06 | zerojay | No. Just crap. |
| 16:26.27 | tko | niluth_: traditional file manager isn't too user friendly anyway |
| 16:26.28 | zerojay | It's too late for me to beg to keep GTK away from the tablets though. :/ |
| 16:27.05 | niluth_ | but if the user interface were customized for small form factors and touch screens? |
| 16:27.17 | tko | zerojay: you can always use Xlib :) |
| 16:27.25 | zerojay | hehe. |
| 16:27.26 | Jiten | gtk has it's problems, I agree. Though, considering what I believe are Nokia's goals, there really isn't much choicce. |
| 16:27.38 | tko | niluth_: it is, but even still |
| 16:28.05 | zerojay | Jiten: Yeah, I agree. I'm just afraid to see GTK go ahead and dump everything and break everything yet again. |
| 16:28.21 | timely_changelog | jiten: eventually maybe we can switch to widget based apps |
| 16:28.27 | timely_changelog | and ditch gtk/glib |
| 16:28.36 | niluth_ | how does the file manager in maemo differ from traditional file managers, such as Nautilus? |
| 16:28.41 | Jiten | widget based apps? |
| 16:28.51 | timely_changelog | html, xul, whatever |
| 16:29.06 | timely_changelog | things that don't use C(++) |
| 16:29.17 | tko | timely_changelog: just make the browser better performing than gtk.. |
| 16:29.55 | timely_changelog | tko: someday... |
| 16:30.08 | alterego | Heh |
| 16:30.11 | derf | "Someday" the processor will just be significantly faster. |
| 16:30.22 | zerojay | Someday in November. |
| 16:30.35 | alterego | Well, ARM performance hasn't really changed much. |
| 16:30.49 | alterego | Though I did hear about some >1Ghz designs .. |
| 16:30.55 | zerojay | Quad-cores coming by 2010. |
| 16:30.59 | alterego | That was a long time ago .. |
| 16:31.20 | derf | If ARM doesn't improve, Intel and AMD will. |
| 16:31.21 | zerojay | alterego: They just announced quad-core ARMs running at 1ghz this past week. |
| 16:31.31 | alterego | Hah, cool. |
| 16:31.35 | alterego | I had no idea :) |
| 16:31.39 | derf | They've saturated the desktop market, so there's not a lot of other places for them to expand to. |
| 16:31.45 | zerojay | Won't be ready until 2010, but still. |
| 16:31.48 | alterego | I heard about them a few years ago from a friend and ARM. |
| 16:32.11 | alterego | friend _at_ ARM. |
| 16:32.23 | timely_changelog | hrm |
| 16:33.19 | Jiten | widget based apps would be okay, I guess, as long as I wouldn't have to use javascript with them. |
| 16:34.15 | derf | I don't know... I'm actually fond of programming my user interfaces with a real programming language. |
| 16:34.47 | db48x | Jiten: what would you prefer to use? |
| 16:34.54 | *** join/#maemo ebel_ (n=rory@78.16.53.76) |
| 16:36.25 | Jiten | db48x: python :) |
| 16:36.39 | db48x | you can write a xul app in python |
| 16:36.51 | Jiten | ok, that's good to know. |
| 16:36.52 | timely_changelog | derf: you must like crashy code |
| 16:37.14 | deejoe | infobot: seen arnims |
| 16:37.16 | infobot | deejoe: i haven't seen 'arnims' |
| 16:37.16 | _Monkey | I haven't seen 'arnims', deejoe |
| 16:37.34 | derf | timely_changelog: No, I like being competent. |
| 16:37.55 | timely_changelog | derf: i'm no familiar with that concept |
| 16:37.57 | db48x | derf: writing in C++ makes you competent? writing in JS makes you incompetent? |
| 16:38.04 | pupnik | ? |
| 16:38.18 | derf | timely_changelog: I can tell. |
| 16:38.21 | db48x | or did I confuse two simultaneous conversations? |
| 16:38.30 | derf | db48x: I wasn't talking about javascript at all. |
| 16:38.31 | pupnik | what is your question deejoe |
| 16:39.25 | derf | Or C++, for that matter. |
| 16:39.30 | db48x | derf: so what's your idea of a 'real' language? |
| 16:39.56 | derf | I will give you a hint: it is not XML- or SGML-based. |
| 16:40.03 | db48x | oh, you just mean something other than a declarative 'language' like html or xul |
| 16:40.11 | derf | Yes. |
| 16:40.53 | timely_changelog | so you like the idea of writing lots of really shitty code to generate an inflexible ui in C / Python? |
| 16:41.00 | timely_changelog | gotcha |
| 16:41.31 | derf | Yes, that is precisely what I said. |
| 16:41.38 | alterego | You can generate JScript well enough not to need to code in it :) |
| 16:41.38 | alterego | Maybe an XUL->glade_xml XSLT stylesheet :) |
| 16:41.41 | alterego | You could use Ruby as the scripting language. |
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| 16:44.22 | alterego | Hah |
| 16:45.28 | db48x | maybe it's because I'm having to program in python |
| 16:46.12 | alterego | I'm tired, I'm tired of program in C for the past 3 days solid .. |
| 16:46.28 | db48x | yea |
| 16:46.33 | db48x | that would make me tired too |
| 16:49.36 | alterego | It is nice when everything starts to work though :) |
| 16:50.44 | db48x | yea, I know that feeling |
| 16:50.57 | db48x | hmm |
| 16:51.09 | db48x | ssh key generation is not very fast on an n800 |
| 16:51.15 | alterego | Hah |
| 16:51.22 | alterego | That's why I did that on my laptop ;) |
| 16:52.05 | Jiten | my n800 was quite warm after generating keys :) |
| 17:00.57 | *** join/#maemo DRoBeR (n=supein@fillo.galaico.eu) |
| 17:01.07 | DRoBeR | pepeepepepepeeeee pepeppepepeeeeeee I wanna be sedated. |
| 17:01.15 | DRoBeR | Hello :) |
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| 17:05.55 | db48x | timely_changelog: uh, does dump work in microb? |
| 17:08.25 | db48x | close function doesn't seem to work either |
| 17:08.31 | db48x | neither does alert |
| 17:09.33 | db48x | oh, alert does |
| 17:09.59 | db48x | hrm |
| 17:10.06 | db48x | so does close, when called from the urlbar |
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| 17:18.54 | snowmoon | If I'm running it2007he does that disable the internal mic? |
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| 17:23.46 | db48x | man, debugging a script is pretty frustrating with no error console |
| 17:25.40 | GeneralAntilles | Hehe |
| 17:26.00 | GeneralAntilles | "Bet you can't guess what went wrong! :P" |
| 17:26.01 | trunneml_ | hi can some one help me with dbus-monitor and dbus-send |
| 17:26.23 | db48x | GeneralAntilles: yea, that's basically what it's doing to me |
| 17:27.56 | Jiten | db48x: why are you debugging without error console? |
| 17:29.09 | zerojay | GeneralAntilles: Welcome to my daily life at work. ;) |
| 17:29.14 | shapr | flip^: Yeah, Haskell jobs aren't so rare. |
| 17:29.37 | GeneralAntilles | Haha, I can only imagine the pain, zerojay. |
| 17:30.00 | zerojay | It becomes trial and error. |
| 17:31.03 | zerojay | Made worse still if you don't have the phone physically on hand to play with. |
| 17:31.46 | GeneralAntilles | Urg, "Here, try this and tell me it doesn't work in 24 hours."? :P |
| 17:32.08 | zerojay | Average week at work for me. |
| 17:32.35 | zerojay | E-mail from our publisher... "we have the XXXXX prerelease phone in the office for the week, we want builds." |
| 17:32.44 | zerojay | Me: "Specs?" Them: "None." |
| 17:32.57 | pupnik | heh |
| 17:33.06 | zerojay | Me: "Screen size?" Them: "You expect us to count pixels?" |
| 17:33.13 | zerojay | Me: "YES." |
| 17:33.41 | pupnik | work can be nutty like that |
| 17:33.56 | zerojay | We fire off a build trying to stick close to norms for that manufacturer's phones.. send builds off, wait a day. |
| 17:34.15 | zerojay | Receive a bunch of bugs written in very broken english. |
| 17:34.33 | zerojay | "Pressing 5 key makes text disappear." |
| 17:34.46 | zerojay | Me: "You are SCROLLING, you idiot!" |
| 17:34.53 | GeneralAntilles | Haha |
| 17:35.14 | zerojay | "Text in box 94 is completely incorrect." |
| 17:35.23 | zerojay | Um... why? |
| 17:35.32 | pupnik | "Text in box 94 now incompletely incorrect." |
| 17:35.49 | zerojay | pupnik: They have a tendancy to surprise you like that, honestly. |
| 17:35.56 | pupnik | this reminds me of the famous pilot-mechanic dialogues |
| 17:36.49 | pupnik | http://www.footflyer.com/Articles/JustForFun/AviationHumor/pilots_mechanics.htm pilot bug reports |
| 17:36.59 | pupnik | P: Target radar hums. |
| 17:37.00 | pupnik | S: Reprogrammed target radar with lyrics. |
| 17:37.07 | zerojay | Yeah, I remember these. |
| 17:37.50 | pupnik | P: Evidence of leak on right main landing gear. |
| 17:37.51 | pupnik | S: Evidence removed. |
| 17:37.54 | pupnik | lmao |
| 17:38.24 | zerojay | It's very easy to respond cynically. |
| 17:38.43 | zerojay | The only reason I don't is because I know it just means they're going to spend the next three days asking what I said. |
| 17:39.03 | pupnik | heh |
| 17:39.35 | pupnik | sucks they don't always give you specs tho |
| 17:40.15 | zerojay | Yeah, that's a pain. |
| 17:40.43 | zerojay | Send us the screen size and a few other basic things. |
| 17:40.54 | zerojay | I do backflips if I get a keymap. |
| 17:41.37 | pupnik | that's how it goes tho, dealing with bigger companies |
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| 17:42.23 | Andy80 | hi all |
| 17:42.29 | pupnik | been there myself doing software work for autodesk many aeons ago |
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| 17:44.18 | zerojay | Wonder if working for ye olde Nokia would be better. |
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| 17:46.48 | sp3000 | woo. |
| 17:46.57 | zerojay | +t |
| 17:51.26 | alterego | Working for Nokia would be my dream job :) |
| 17:51.51 | alterego | Especially if it was in Finland .. I could go skiing for cheap :) |
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| 18:02.02 | Jiten | is it just me or does this gtk.TreeModel just look too complex for what it does to others too? |
| 18:04.47 | DRoBeR | alterego, one friend went to Finland for his Erasmus. He said that Finnish girls are so hot... haha |
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| 18:31.31 | alterego | Jiten, that's a side effect of it being written in C. IT is very flexible though and once you understand using it it's quite easy :) |
| 18:31.39 | alterego | Like everything I guess ^_^ |
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| 18:36.18 | Jiten | alterego: well, I'm mostly annoyed at the interface being presented as is in pygtk. |
| 18:36.33 | alterego | Yeah, I don't like the pyGTK interface. |
| 18:36.48 | alterego | Ruby's is a _lot_ nicer especially signal handling. |
| 18:37.16 | alterego | The people that did the ruby-gnome2 stuff are genius' in my book :) |
| 18:38.08 | Jiten | pygtk is mostly ok but ... a few things are glaring exceptions. |
| 18:38.48 | alterego | What are you working on? |
| 18:39.22 | Jiten | this mnemosyne port I've been working on for the last few days |
| 18:39.44 | zerojay | alterego: I haven't ever played with Ruby before, but your work has me interested in trying it. |
| 18:40.02 | Jiten | for some reason ComboBox widget wants me to use TreeStore for the list. |
| 18:40.11 | alterego | Interesting. |
| 18:40.27 | Jiten | umm TreeModel |
| 18:40.30 | alterego | Not ListStore? |
| 18:40.48 | alterego | ListStore is a descendant of TreeModel .. |
| 18:41.19 | Jiten | yes, ListStore I'm using. I guess I'm getting tired when I slip like this. |
| 18:41.35 | alterego | :) |
| 18:41.43 | alterego | Tell me about it. |
| 18:41.47 | alterego | I'm sick of libosso :) |
| 18:41.50 | Jiten | anyway, back to figuring out why the list gets populated but every choice is empty. |
| 18:41.51 | alterego | and dbus .. |
| 18:42.20 | alterego | Jiten, have you created a text renderer? |
| 18:42.28 | alterego | And assigned it to the column? |
| 18:42.35 | *** join/#maemo k-s[WORK] (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132) |
| 18:42.43 | alterego | Oh wait .. This is a ComboBox .. My bad :) |
| 18:42.50 | SE-Wilco | My N800 can't load some URLs at one WiFi site. Like Community at maemo.org. Any TCP/IP issues? |
| 18:43.13 | Jiten | alterego: I'm starting to think I just might have to do that. |
| 18:43.14 | alterego | SE-Wilco, sounds more like an issue with your location. |
| 18:43.54 | Jiten | or then just forget letting glade create this one and create new one with the simplifying functions |
| 18:44.32 | alterego | :) |
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| 18:45.37 | Juhaz | sounds like cell renderers aren't getting created/set up for some reason |
| 18:46.28 | Jiten | I'm completely baffled at what hoops I have to jump through to get something this simple to work. |
| 18:46.50 | Jiten | gtk.Combo widget looks pretty much what I want and simple enough but that's deprecated. |
| 18:47.02 | Jiten | and glade doesn't even list that anywhere. |
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| 18:48.43 | Jiten | ah, now it works, I just had to add a dummy element in the list in glade. |
| 18:48.48 | juh0 | SE-Wilco: buggy wlan-router, check this out https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1636 |
| 18:48.52 | alterego | Weird |
| 18:49.16 | SE-Wilco | I can see the main maemo.org page but Community just keeps saying "Connecting". |
| 18:49.33 | *** join/#maemo guerby (n=guerby@gut75-4-82-235-162-148.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:49.57 | snowmoon | SE-Wilco: Works for me |
| 18:50.09 | SE-Wilco | Same for 'Bugs and features'. Hard to look for this bug. |
| 18:50.27 | Jiten | anyway, I want this done so I can get started on trying if I can manage to make usable input method. |
| 18:53.38 | Jiten | I've got an idea of how to make usable input system with which you can input whole words with one stroke. |
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| 18:56.56 | alterego | Sounds interesting. |
| 18:58.35 | SE-Wilco | Grr. Also the lib for Pidgin won't finish downloading into AppMgr. |
| 18:59.04 | Jiten | yes, it's quite simple really. first assign an angle for each letter, for example 0 for a, 13 for b, 26 for c and so on. |
| 18:59.36 | Jiten | then when you want to type a word, you try to draw lines as close to the angles as you can. |
| 19:00.29 | Jiten | when you lift the stylus from the touchscreen, it decodes the input with the assumption that there are some errors. Finds the closest word in it's dictionary that matches. |
| 19:00.55 | juh0 | SE-Wilco: did you try this to solve connection problem? gconftool-2 --set --type int '/system/osso/connectivity/IAP/wlan_sleep_timeout' |
| 19:00.58 | juh0 | '1000' |
| 19:02.07 | Jiten | could benefit from predictive text input as well as pattern matching how close the angles are to the ideal angles for different words. |
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| 19:05.21 | czr | trunneml_, I'm back now |
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| 19:41.34 | eichi__ | hello, is there a way to make an n800 to a wlan access point? to use umts/hsdpa with handy to n800 and then to laptop(s) |
| 19:42.10 | shapr | Yes |
| 19:42.27 | shapr | I've seen something like that on the maemo wiki |
| 19:48.24 | konttori | Hi guys, ukmp 1.7alpha 7 is now available for testing. |
| 19:48.25 | konttori | https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/2371/UKMP-1.70Alpha7.deb |
| 19:48.37 | konttori | Works on n810 as well (need python though) |
| 19:49.19 | konttori | It has been bug fixes as well as new realtime reflection and pointer glow. |
| 19:49.50 | konttori | Both of these will be improved before the 1.7 final, but I would like to get impressions from you guys early on. |
| 19:50.20 | konttori | So, in case you have n800 / n810 and have been using ukmp on it, please test that out and let me know what you think |
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| 19:51.15 | m-vo | everyone who has a n810 raise their hands! :-) |
| 19:53.26 | konttori | if you need python installer file, let me know. I can add that to garage. |
| 19:53.34 | konttori | (for n810 that is) |
| 19:53.51 | timely_changelog | stardust was good |
| 19:54.13 | timely_changelog | too bad i almost missed it because i couldn't figure out that the movie with the Finnish title that i was looking a was stardust... |
| 19:54.42 | konttori | https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/2372/python2.5-runtime.install |
| 19:54.49 | konttori | python for n810 install is there |
| 19:55.02 | konttori | It contains all the needed repos. |
| 19:55.05 | m-vo | t?htip?ly... |
| 19:55.11 | konttori | stardust was truly great! |
| 19:55.16 | konttori | I loved it! |
| 19:55.58 | GeneralAntilles | One bug, it doesn't parse em-dashes in my media filenames correction, konttori. |
| 19:56.00 | straind | Anyone want an easy wiki edit? |
| 19:56.04 | GeneralAntilles | *correctly |
| 19:56.48 | m-vo | konttori, your .install has lots of bora repositories, that doesn't sound right for a device running chinook (like the n810). |
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| 19:58.14 | konttori | what is em-dash? |
| 19:58.45 | GeneralAntilles | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dash#Em_dash |
| 19:58.52 | konttori | m-vo: yeah, but it seems that to get python installed (there is no final release yet), you need all those repos |
| 19:59.00 | m-vo | A dash that is as wide as a upper case "M". |
| 19:59.23 | konttori | ahh... So, how do they turn out ? Does it drop them completely? |
| 19:59.37 | m-vo | Yes, still doesn't sound right. I am just pointing out instances of your repository mess. |
| 20:00.15 | GeneralAntilles | äa? or something like that |
| 20:00.20 | GeneralAntilles | Only showed up during loading |
| 20:00.31 | GeneralAntilles | and I can't seem to pull up the videos section to check the file it was on. |
| 20:02.23 | konttori | m-vo: what mess? If it depends on something that is only available in bora, then so be it. That is for testing purposes only until nokia is done with the chinook implementation of python |
| 20:02.52 | konttori | GeneralAntilles:Hmm... as in nothing happens when you click on the videos link? |
| 20:03.15 | m-vo | If the python implementation in the bora distribution works for a chinook device, why isn't it in the chinook distribution? |
| 20:03.19 | GeneralAntilles | One video comes a quarter of the way onto the left side of the screen |
| 20:03.22 | GeneralAntilles | but stays there |
| 20:03.26 | GeneralAntilles | Music works fine. |
| 20:03.37 | |tbb| | what chinook stays for |
| 20:03.46 | GeneralAntilles | m-vo, probably because the device and the OS aren't released yet. |
| 20:06.05 | eichi__ | maybe with hostapd?? |
| 20:06.06 | m-vo | well, the SDK beta is out already. |
| 20:06.27 | GeneralAntilles | beta |
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| 20:07.13 | konttori | m-vo: the python comes from sardine. The dependencies are in bora. |
| 20:07.38 | konttori | so it's almost there now, but not quite. |
| 20:08.18 | m-vo | Right, that's the Sardine mess. (My fault due to lazyness.) It should have been rebased on the SDK beta as soon as it came out. (The alpha SDK was based on Sardine, btw.) |
| 20:08.26 | tko | wtf? some dependencies that were in bora are missing from chinook? |
| 20:09.27 | m-vo | GeneralAntilles, I blame myself for half of the mess, btw, but I seem to be one of only few people who perceive the current situation as a mess. |
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| 20:10.38 | konttori | I think some of the bindings just aren't there yet. e.g. gpsd. |
| 20:10.42 | tko | I'm perceiving too many individual messes all round :-/ |
| 20:10.44 | konttori | so that's why it's not out yet |
| 20:11.05 | konttori | and probably why it hasn't been properly fixed to put the dependencies to chinook. |
| 20:11.43 | m-vo | maybe, that would fit our usual approach of laying a golden eggs or die trying. |
| 20:11.48 | konttori | anyway, GeneralAntilles: Did you find the glow effect irritating? |
| 20:11.59 | GeneralAntilles | Not really, mostly pointless. |
| 20:12.17 | roope | Hmm. |
| 20:12.25 | tko | m-vo: without the trying part, really |
| 20:12.26 | GeneralAntilles | Less interesting when it doesn't so much move around as jump from place to place. |
| 20:12.59 | konttori | Ahh.. Indeed, it is pointless. I'm hoping to add to it to get some wow effect out of it. That point is mostly a stub at the moment |
| 20:13.14 | konttori | waiting for the right content. |
| 20:13.35 | GeneralAntilles | I would highlight the selected media icon, though. |
| 20:13.54 | GeneralAntilles | The reflections on the images look good |
| 20:14.02 | GeneralAntilles | don't care for the reflections on the title text, though |
| 20:14.07 | GeneralAntilles | it mostly just makes it hard to read. |
| 20:14.19 | konttori | You mean that when you click on the music icon, it highlights that? Yeah, I intend to drop that. |
| 20:14.46 | konttori | I agree on the title thing. It's waiting for text repositionings |
| 20:14.54 | GeneralAntilles | Add a Photoshop glow filter to the icon that's selected. |
| 20:14.58 | konttori | should look cooler after the text is repositioned. |
| 20:15.24 | konttori | GeneralAntilles: I may drop the icons completely soon. |
| 20:15.53 | konttori | So, I won't add the 'selected item' functionality there for that reason. |
| 20:16.02 | konttori | but it is a good point nevertheless |
| 20:16.11 | GeneralAntilles | Right, right. :) |
| 20:16.19 | GeneralAntilles | What are you replacing the icons with? |
| 20:16.43 | m-vo | err, "uploading sqlite docs into brain..." |
| 20:16.51 | GeneralAntilles | Also, think you could change the transition from overview to selection so that the item you select moves into place in the bottom right corner? |
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| 20:27.40 | konttori | I'm adding a view for that .. a 'main menu' of sorts. |
| 20:32.43 | konttori | m-vo: how is it going? Did you read about virtual tables? They sound really interesting |
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| 20:34.29 | m-vo | no, not yet. Manifest types sound great to a fan of dynamic typing like me. |
| 20:34.53 | m-vo | I have no clue about sql, tho. Have to learn that, too.... |
| 20:36.50 | pupnik_ | first thing to learn is when not to use it |
| 20:37.47 | pupnik_ | a two dimensional data-set alone does not justify it |
| 20:39.03 | konttori | yeah. As long as you are just using it for simple retrieval from 2d table, hash tables are usually superior to using sql engine for it |
| 20:39.10 | pupnik_ | Seen too much of this attitude: 'you have data? then you need a RDBMS!' |
| 20:39.11 | _Monkey | I haven't seen 'too', pupnik_ |
| 20:39.21 | m-vo | sqlite is not interesting because of sql, but because it has figured out transactions, etc. Wouldn't want to reimplement all of that just to avoid sql. :) |
| 20:39.43 | konttori | But for storing and sharing, it is really good, even for those 2d tables. |
| 20:40.01 | pupnik_ | i'm not saying anyone here is guilty of misapplying sql :) |
| 20:41.02 | konttori | not many even use it to begin with ;) |
| 20:41.43 | konttori | Nope, seriously, your point is well taken. It is indeed easy to use it for pointless tasks as well and slow down your program because of the overhead. |
| 20:41.58 | m-vo | heh, the sql tutorial starts by explaining SELECT. But I don't even have a table yet! |
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| 20:42.55 | db48x | unfortunately you need to know how SELECT works in order to design a table |
| 20:43.14 | *** join/#maemo joejaxx (i=joejaxx@fluxbuntu/founder/joejaxx) |
| 20:43.39 | db48x | (well, designing one table isn't too hard, but the whole set you tables you will need requires that understanding) |
| 20:44.16 | m-vo | yeah, but the tutorial could tell me to how to create a example table. It's a tutorial, after all. |
| 20:44.22 | db48x | yea |
| 20:44.49 | pupnik_ | you have to store a few pages of information in brain before you can do anything |
| 20:45.02 | m-vo | It's actually not a tutorial, just a brief explanation of SQL concepts.... :/ |
| 20:45.42 | db48x | once you get past the initial hurdles, sql is pretty straight-forward |
| 20:46.01 | db48x | the really funny thing is that it was essentially designed as the primary user interface for the database |
| 20:46.07 | konttori | Try out this indt guys tutorial on sqlite: http://www.initd.org/tracker/pysqlite/wiki/basicintro |
| 20:46.36 | konttori | It goes pretty quickly though all the simple stuff. easy to test the code. |
| 20:47.15 | tko | why do you want documentation anyway? :) |
| 20:47.53 | konttori | night! |
| 20:48.43 | inz | Hmm, I wonder if I should release wordpress 2.3 package for maemo -- upgrade from 2.0.9 is not perfect :/ |
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| 20:50.00 | _|Nix|_ | m-vo: Ping! Can I have a variable on the right-hand-side of "Build-Depends:"? You know, like "Depends:" can have "${shlibs:Depends}" on its RHS? |
| 20:50.29 | _|Nix|_ | It'd be useful if I could do that, so I can use the same setup to build on both bora and chinook ... |
| 20:51.11 | suihkulokki | _|Nix|_: not really. however you can alternatives like "Build-Depends: foo-bora | foo-chinook" |
| 20:51.36 | _|Nix|_ | suihkulokki: Ooooh! So, it'll build if at least one is present. |
| 20:51.48 | _|Nix|_ | suihkulokki: Is it a short-circuit | ? |
| 20:52.27 | _|Nix|_ | suihkulokki: Cuz, I'm thinking libhildon1-dev | hildon-libs-dev *grin* |
| 20:52.32 | suihkulokki | short-circuit ? |
| 20:52.47 | tko | IIRC there were three different algorithms for install Build-Depends (at least) :) |
| 20:52.48 | _|Nix|_ | suihkulokki: If it finds the first one it doesn't look for the second one. |
| 20:53.04 | suihkulokki | _|Nix|_: yep. |
| 20:53.14 | tko | dpkg-buildpackage just checks the presence of things, not try to install anything |
| 20:53.33 | _|Nix|_ | tko: I know, but I've already done the right things in configure.ac |
| 20:53.47 | _|Nix|_ | tko: However, my control file was good only on Bora. |
| 20:54.03 | _|Nix|_ | tko: But "|" is a simple answer. |
| 20:54.36 | _|Nix|_ | Oooh ... but now I need foo | <nothing> :o) |
| 20:54.49 | _|Nix|_ | So, an optional Build-depends ... |
| 20:56.15 | tko | wouldn't it be nice if someone had already thought this through while breaking all the APIs...? |
| 20:56.20 | m-vo | _|Nix|_, foo | <nothing> can be optimized away. |
| 20:56.50 | m-vo | in other words, foo isn't really a build-dependency. |
| 20:56.59 | _|Nix|_ | m-vo: True ... |
| 20:57.32 | _|Nix|_ | I guess I really /do/ want it, it's just that etrunko hasn't added it to chinook-extras yet :o) |
| 20:57.41 | _|Nix|_ | I'm talking about avahi |
| 20:57.56 | _|Nix|_ | ... and if I don't have it, I can't build the Bonjour plugin ... |
| 20:58.17 | _|Nix|_ | ... and I have it on Bora, but not Chinook ... |
| 20:58.32 | m-vo | just stick the bora binary into chinook extras. |
| 20:58.45 | tko | debian isn't too great in handling optional build dependencies |
| 20:58.49 | _|Nix|_ | m-vo: Not gonna work. Needs a rebuild. |
| 20:58.50 | m-vo | >:-) |
| 20:59.15 | _|Nix|_ | m-vo: The Bora binary depends on dbus-1-2, whereas Chinook ships dbus-1-3 |
| 20:59.22 | tko | _|Nix|_: so rebuild and upload to extras? =) |
| 20:59.35 | m-vo | tko, i thnk it's good to be flexible in configure.ac and strict in debian/control and debian/rules. |
| 20:59.58 | inz | _|Nix|_, I use libhildon1-dev | hildon-libs-dev and it works fine |
| 20:59.58 | _|Nix|_ | tko: I've asked etrunko to do that. I don't wanna mess with that, because, who knows, I may not have the right environment, etc. He's done it before. I haven't. |
| 21:00.07 | _|Nix|_ | inz: I'm about to do that :o) |
| 21:00.12 | m-vo | I.e., upstream should be portable and cope with optional packages not being present, but when building for debian, you want a well controlled configuration. |
| 21:01.14 | tko | m-vo: I almost hope you get to maintain many debian packages that come with build dependencies to mysql and the kitchen sink :) |
| 21:01.14 | m-vo | Now, having more than one well controlled configuration in one debian source package (one for Debian itself, one for Ubuntu, one for Emdebian, one for maemo), that's where it gets interesting. |
| 21:01.54 | _|Nix|_ | *sigh* ... I'm thinking about committing a horrible attrocity: "Build-Depends: ... @AVAHI_DEV_PACKAGE@ ..." + wrapper script for dpkg-buildpackage - at least until etrunko comes through. |
| 21:02.35 | tko | that's where the madness lies |
| 21:02.48 | tko | it's evil enough for SONAME |
| 21:02.52 | m-vo | Hmm, what about just leaving it out. You have to rerelease once avahi becomes available anyway. |
| 21:03.18 | _|Nix|_ | m-vo: I'm not releasing. I'm waiting for upstream's 2.2.2. This is just for me. |
| 21:03.42 | m-vo | Ahh, then just build avahi for yourself. |
| 21:03.50 | _|Nix|_ | I just wanna have one command to run that'll build on both Bora and Chinook. |
| 21:04.02 | tko | jhbuild install :) |
| 21:04.41 | m-vo | _|Nix|_, right, I get it. Hmm.... |
| 21:04.48 | _|Nix|_ | m-vo: ... but then I can't test it on the tablet ... well, I suppose I could install avahi on the tablet. However, this may become an "endless shopping list" (as my QM professor called the dependency tree). |
| 21:04.55 | alterego | I wrote a script to do that for ruby-maemo :) |
| 21:05.40 | _|Nix|_ | Attrocity it is ... *wipe hands* |
| 21:07.33 | tko | of course you could just tell dpkg to ignore missing build-depends (after verifying that you're missing only the ones blocking on someone else) |
| 21:08.23 | m-vo | Hmm, bora is 'obsolete' once chinook comes out, and what you are doing is maintaining a backport of a chinook package for bora. And you want to make it as easy as possible... maintaining a separate backporting branch is too much work? |
| 21:08.39 | _|Nix|_ | m-vo: Not bora, actually ... gregale. |
| 21:08.50 | _|Nix|_ | gregale and bora are binary-compatible. |
| 21:09.09 | alterego | Version numbers are easier to work out for me. |
| 21:09.10 | _|Nix|_ | So, I could ship one binary for N770 and N800. This will no longer be true once Chinook ships. |
| 21:09.12 | alterego | What version is gregale? |
| 21:09.17 | _|Nix|_ | alterego: 2.2 |
| 21:09.22 | alterego | Right |
| 21:09.33 | alterego | Well, 2.2 is binary compatible but there are API changes. |
| 21:09.46 | tko | g < b < c .. the version/naming scheme almost makes sense |
| 21:10.10 | alterego | m < g< b < c ? |
| 21:10.20 | _|Nix|_ | Yep. |
| 21:10.45 | alterego | I think I'll definitely use numbers instead of those tags. |
| 21:10.57 | m-vo | _|Nix|_, gregale is the 770 hacker edition? |
| 21:11.00 | alterego | It's confusing to me, I'd hate to think what users would do .. |
| 21:11.14 | alterego | No, gregale is 2.2 |
| 21:11.17 | alterego | HE is 3.2 |
| 21:11.26 | _|Nix|_ | m-vo: Whatever it is, building against it makes things run on the last N770 firmware |
| 21:11.42 | tko | 2.0 mistral, 2.1 something, 2.2 gregale |
| 21:12.15 | _|Nix|_ | m-vo: ... as well as on all things pre-chinook. |
| 21:12.25 | _|Nix|_ | m-vo: ... one binary. |
| 21:12.30 | m-vo | 2.1, scirocco. |
| 21:12.58 | m-vo | _|Nix|_, wow, is that by accident or did we plan it? |
| 21:13.00 | tko | I got the s correct |
| 21:13.15 | tko | m-vo: yes, I think so :-P |
| 21:13.18 | _|Nix|_ | m-vo: Dunno, don't care ... WORKSFORME :o) |
| 21:14.02 | m-vo | Didn't we break compatibility with each major release? I am confused now. |
| 21:14.14 | tko | partially |
| 21:14.24 | tko | it's a great confusion |
| 21:14.25 | m-vo | Anyway, I know that compatibility is not black and white if you look at a complete OS. |
| 21:14.28 | _|Nix|_ | m-vo: That may be the case on the system as a whole, but, I guess, not on those parts needed for Pidgin. |
| 21:14.55 | _|Nix|_ | m-vo: So, if you had a "Christmas tree" project, you'd need separate binaries. |
| 21:16.13 | alterego | Heh |
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| 21:21.06 | Jiten | I got a rather fresh idea of how slow n800 actually is. I decided to finally see if my program works on the device too. |
| 21:21.54 | Jiten | apparently not so good idea to implement simple html parser in python. it's _slow_ even for just a couple of lines. |
| 21:22.12 | alterego | Doesn't sounds so simple .. |
| 21:22.20 | alterego | REXML works pretty well. |
| 21:23.01 | Jiten | well, it parses html and sets up gtk.TextView so it shows it as well as it can. |
| 21:24.18 | Jiten | I was initially thinking about using gtkhtml instead but couldn't find python bindings |
| 21:24.20 | m-vo | Jiten, be happy that it is just slow, and not impossible. :) |
| 21:25.47 | Jiten | it takes ~200ms to show the text I guess. |
| 21:28.05 | Jiten | I guess I get to learn how to make a python wrapper for gtkhtml. |
| 21:29.30 | tko | gtkhtml wrapper was in python-gnome IIRC |
| 21:31.52 | Jiten | maemo has a version of gtkhtml from which gnome dependencies have been removed... |
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| 21:47.56 | m-vo | Is there any magic in relational data base theory? Seems all pretty straightforward to me. |
| 21:57.53 | Jiten | alterego: you're right, the parser I'm using isn't so simple ... that's what you get when you use other people's code. |
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| 23:34.37 | snowmoon | anyone have experience with IT2007HE? Will it work with a BT headset? Is there a way to tweak the finger use to be more like IT2006 |
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| 23:41.12 | drseashell | on the n800, how do i save url of a picture ... to the C+P buffer |
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