| 00:01.32 | [31d1] | this guy is an idiot http://informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2007/10/first_glance_th.html |
| 00:02.56 | pupnik | Comments section... kill him with fire |
| 00:04.23 | pupnik | well looks like it's been debunked already |
| 00:04.48 | [31d1] | "i dont get it - it's neither a crappy cellphone nor is it windows xp" |
| 00:04.52 | pupnik | 1) "You have to spend *more* money on *another* smartphone." No, you can use an existing phone. |
| 00:04.56 | pupnik | yep |
| 00:05.06 | [31d1] | therefore it must not exist |
| 00:05.45 | [31d1] | i do think that teh N's don't make alot of sense if you're not a linux person |
| 00:06.24 | zerojay | Disagree. |
| 00:06.36 | zerojay | You don't need to know anything about Linux to use them as intended. |
| 00:06.57 | zerojay | It's once you want to go beyond that you need to learn. |
| 00:07.00 | zerojay | Which is good. |
| 00:07.11 | pupnik | Is double-tapping to zoom-in on a column of a webpage such a great idea? |
| 00:07.19 | zerojay | No. |
| 00:07.21 | [31d1] | yeah but out of the box i think they are kind of lame - at least comparatively |
| 00:07.39 | [31d1] | i gues fbreader and maemo mapper are bot worth at the least the price of a 770 |
| 00:07.43 | zerojay | A double tap is too easy to initiate by accident if you are scrolling and aren't pressing down quite hard enough. |
| 00:07.50 | pupnik | yeah |
| 00:08.11 | db48x | it may be a better idea when you're using your fingers |
| 00:08.11 | [31d1] | but all the kismet, ssh, fuse, terminal stuff is _solid-gold_ imo |
| 00:08.18 | db48x | since you have better tactile feedback |
| 00:08.36 | db48x | but I haven't used an iphone, so I don't know |
| 00:09.10 | zerojay | Great for about five minutes. |
| 00:09.21 | zerojay | Once the novelty of the interface wears off... not much left. |
| 00:09.23 | SLi | I often double-tap by mistake while trying to tap-and-hold. |
| 00:09.30 | zerojay | SLi: Same here. |
| 00:09.52 | derf | I _really_ wish the required hold time was configurable. |
| 00:10.21 | zerojay | I'm sure it is. |
| 00:10.37 | derf | I thought it was hard-coded in the public headers. |
| 00:10.39 | zerojay | Buried somewhere in gconf, I'd imagine. |
| 00:10.43 | zerojay | Maybe. |
| 00:10.47 | zerojay | I haven't looked. |
| 00:10.48 | derf | Trust me, I looked. |
| 00:11.12 | zerojay | Nothing stopping you from recompiling with a different value. |
| 00:11.42 | derf | I'd have to recompile everything... and that's too much work. |
| 00:11.59 | derf | Especially since we don't have the source code for everything. |
| 00:12.43 | SLi | I wonder if Nokia developed their own gps software for n810, bought it or modified something free. |
| 00:12.55 | derf | I'm sure they just bought it. |
| 00:13.00 | SLi | Probably yes. |
| 00:13.20 | derf | It is certainly not Maemo Mapper-based. |
| 00:13.45 | SLi | I hope it won't kill interest in maemo-mapper. |
| 00:13.45 | Fatal | that'd been a waste :) |
| 00:13.53 | zerojay | I doubt it. |
| 00:14.09 | zerojay | People won't always want to pay $100 for routes, etc.. |
| 00:14.20 | derf | In fact, people will refuse to. |
| 00:14.27 | zerojay | Some. |
| 00:14.28 | derf | Like me. |
| 00:14.39 | zerojay | Others will pay because it'll be easier for them to deal with. |
| 00:14.42 | SLi | Hm, right. Didn't think about their business model for the maps yet :) |
| 00:14.57 | zerojay | Maps are free. |
| 00:14.58 | derf | I also _really_ like being able to run a script and populate my POI database with entries from Wikipedia surrounding my current location. |
| 00:15.04 | zerojay | Routing, voice commands are extra. |
| 00:15.10 | SLi | Interesting. |
| 00:15.17 | zerojay | derf: How did you manage to do that? |
| 00:15.29 | derf | Someone wrote a Python script for it. |
| 00:15.38 | derf | Using Geoclue. |
| 00:15.40 | zerojay | I didn't see that. Send me a link? |
| 00:15.41 | zerojay | Oh. |
| 00:15.46 | zerojay | Geoclue's broken. |
| 00:16.00 | derf | Well, that's going to be a problem then. |
| 00:16.05 | zerojay | Well, maemoplazer's broken, actually. |
| 00:16.28 | zerojay | Because plazes changed their API. |
| 00:16.36 | zerojay | I think Geoclue was recently fixed. |
| 00:16.38 | derf | I've been meaning to integrate it into Maemo Mapper itself, so you could just use the GPS directly. |
| 00:16.53 | derf | (and so I didn't need an 8MB Python interpreter for a 200-line script) |
| 00:17.20 | zerojay | Well, quite a lot of people have Python installed anyways. |
| 00:17.32 | derf | It is literally the only reason I have it installed. |
| 00:17.36 | db48x | if the python interpreter was smaller, the script would end up being longer |
| 00:17.45 | derf | db48x: Not really. |
| 00:17.54 | SLi | Yeah, but not 8 MB :) |
| 00:17.57 | derf | It does all the work with dbus and 3rd party libraries, anyway. |
| 00:18.05 | derf | I mean, it would probably be 300 lines of C. |
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| 00:18.20 | *** join/#maemo Ivan (n=ivan@213.85.152.162) |
| 00:18.40 | derf | Aha, there's the link: http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/maemo_mapper-openstreetmap_and_wikipedia.html |
| 00:18.41 | db48x | if it was the size of bash (10x smaller), then it would certainly be longer. so long you wouldn' |
| 00:18.43 | db48x | t have written it |
| 00:18.49 | zerojay | derf: Thanks. |
| 00:19.55 | ds3 | it is not just willingness to pay for maps... it is more of willingness to pay for ACCURATE maps |
| 00:20.28 | SLi | Commercial maps have deliberate mistakes to prove copyright infringement, I wonder if that's better. |
| 00:20.38 | derf | No, I would pay for maps. |
| 00:20.51 | derf | I would not pay a significant fraction of the cost of the device for maps. |
| 00:21.02 | ds3 | yahoo used to direct people into brick walls or locate addresses miles away from where it should be |
| 00:21.34 | derf | Especially when the marginal cost to them of the maps is virtuall $0. |
| 00:21.45 | SLi | Depends on the type of maps. Good 1:25000 or so maps with height curves and stuff (I forget what they are called in English) for the whole world, I might well pay 100 euros for them ;) |
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| 00:22.23 | derf | Oh yeah, the whole world is also a must. |
| 00:22.23 | SLi | I think maps aren't very cheap to produce commercially. |
| 00:22.27 | zerojay | derf: Does the script work well? |
| 00:22.29 | ds3 | topological maps? |
| 00:22.42 | derf | zerojay: It's worked fine for me. |
| 00:23.14 | db48x | topographic is the word you're looking for |
| 00:23.17 | SLi | I guess. |
| 00:24.56 | ds3 | did see it but has it been confirmed if the 810 will do vorbis? |
| 00:25.02 | ds3 | and thorea |
| 00:25.22 | derf | It has been confirmed that they will not. |
| 00:25.29 | ds3 | ah :( |
| 00:25.33 | Ivan | Guys, does anyone use IDEA! ? |
| 00:25.34 | derf | Yes. :( |
| 00:26.01 | SLi | Officially? Unofficially? I guess they shouldn't been too hard to port, though, if the CPU is fast enough. |
| 00:26.04 | derf | The closest thing to a straight answer as to why that I've seen thus far is that their lawyers will not let them ship them. |
| 00:26.07 | SLi | -en |
| 00:26.28 | ds3 | lawyers would not let them ship vorbis?!! |
| 00:26.31 | SLi | Caution. That might be wise, for a company, maybe. |
| 00:26.37 | derf | Well, lardman is working on Vorbis. I'm hoping when he's made some progress to maybe take a look at Theora. |
| 00:27.20 | SLi | ds3, Fraunhofer (or someone else? I don't remember who) has asserted that there "must be" some of their patent minefield used in those, and that they will investigate and litigate if it gains enough market share. |
| 00:27.34 | ds3 | I'd be happier if they dropped MP3 entirely and went with Vorbis |
| 00:27.41 | ds3 | SLi: oh more FUD |
| 00:27.49 | derf | Never mind the fact that several independent patent reviews of Vorbis have been conducted, and all disagree with Fraunhofer. |
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| 00:28.22 | ds3 | they should litigate and get their patents declared invalid instead ;) |
| 00:28.29 | SLi | ds3, I know. Though they may be right. But I wouldn't be worried unless they identify some specific patent. After that, well, it would be tough for a company to quickly drop functionality from their devices. |
| 00:28.32 | derf | Yes. That would be nice. |
| 00:28.37 | db48x | FUD is easier |
| 00:28.44 | derf | Assuming we (Xiph) had any money to defend ourselves. |
| 00:28.56 | derf | Which, honestly, we do not. |
| 00:29.33 | ds3 | having seen then results with SCO... |
| 00:29.57 | derf | Well, the real reason they'll never sue us is that we don't have a bikkion dokkars. |
| 00:30.10 | SLi | Don't underestimate software patents. I'm not sure about sound/audio codecs (I'd guess they as heavily patented as compilers), but I'm confident that it isn't possible to write a modern compiler without infringing at least some granted sw patents (of course whether those patents are actually valid is another unsolved issue). |
| 00:30.29 | derf | SLi: Oh. I'm quite aware. |
| 00:30.59 | SLi | derf, that's why they will attack a major company, not the OSS developer community. |
| 00:31.19 | ds3 | when's the patent expire? |
| 00:31.33 | derf | SLi: Right. I didn't say I didn't understand why they chickened out. |
| 00:31.42 | SLi | Depends on the country. Usually something like 20 years. |
| 00:31.59 | ds3 | but when was it issued |
| 00:32.07 | SLi | Which patent? |
| 00:32.18 | ds3 | the MP3 ones |
| 00:32.40 | derf | But that doesn't change the fact that they gave up doing the right thing in order to do the easier thing. |
| 00:33.02 | derf | Unlike, say, IBM. |
| 00:33.15 | SLi | http://www.tunequest.org/a-big-list-of-mp3-patents/20070226/ |
| 00:35.15 | SLi | The funny thing is, most big companies are protected against most other big companies because both have enough patents that are relevant to the other. |
| 00:35.38 | SLi | But it's companies that just (invent and) patent stuff that are problematic. |
| 00:35.55 | SLi | And of course it doesn't help you if you aren't a big company. :P |
| 00:36.58 | derf | SLi: Most patent troll companies do not do any actual inventing. |
| 00:37.03 | derf | They buy their patent portfolios. |
| 00:37.36 | derf | If they were comptent enough to actually innovate in some field, they wouldn't need to resort to litigation as a business model. |
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| 00:38.15 | SLi | derf, that's true. But if I've understood correctly, e.g. Fraunhofer Institute tries to live mostly on research and have little products of their own. |
| 00:38.18 | db48x | well, that or an MBA was competent enough to innovate in _his_ field, and invent the patent-litigation company |
| 00:38.51 | derf | db48x: Sadly, that is not a new innovation. |
| 00:39.04 | db48x | it was at some point |
| 00:40.25 | db48x | my bedtime |
| 00:40.37 | SLi | Luckily, and sadly, sw patents are a bit of grey area nearly everywhere (if I've understood correctly, in the US they are quite mainstream accepted, but it hasn't been proven in the supreme court; In Japan they are quite definitely enforceable; and in Europe, we have de facto sw patents in most countries, and they are a very grey area). |
| 00:41.14 | SLi | My country, Finland supports software patents, because we are owned by Nokia. |
| 00:41.29 | db48x | heh |
| 00:41.48 | SLi | And US tries to push them hard to other countries too. |
| 00:42.11 | derf | Yes, because we own most of them. |
| 00:43.23 | SLi | I'm not sure how relevant that is, US patents wouldn't probably be directly enforceable elsewhere, but then, even now of course European companies can't sell stuff in US that infringes US patents. |
| 00:43.48 | derf | SLi: It's even worse than that. |
| 00:44.06 | zerojay | US laws might as well be world laws now. |
| 00:44.06 | derf | Europen companies cannot sell stuff in Europe that infringe US patents if they also wish to sell them in the US. |
| 00:44.29 | derf | Because the patent agreements they sign for the US demand royalties for everywhere else, also. |
| 00:44.30 | SLi | I.e. if you really want worldwide coverage, you have to patent it everywhere. Most companies dodge the expenses by getting patents only in a few key countries. |
| 00:44.34 | derf | Irregardless of jurisdiction. |
| 00:44.40 | zerojay | Makes me think about how they grabbed that Aussie teenager and extradited him for piracy to the US even though he's never been there. |
| 00:44.45 | SLi | Hmm, that kind of makes sense. |
| 00:45.13 | SLi | I once was in a heart rate monitor coder team in a company, I think it was in 2000... |
| 00:45.46 | SLi | We made distinct EU and US versions of our devices, with an one-bit difference in the code. |
| 00:46.26 | SLi | The EU version could show the amount of ascent or descent (it estimated it from air pressure variations), the US version could only show the start level and the current level. |
| 00:46.47 | SLi | In ft, estimated, from the sea level. |
| 00:47.16 | SLi | Because using air pressure variations to estimate amount ascended or descended was patented in the US! |
| 00:47.24 | SLi | Brillian. |
| 00:47.26 | SLi | +t |
| 00:47.51 | derf | Yes, who could possibly have come up with that idea. |
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| 00:48.29 | SLi | Now I must say some ideas seem more brilliant, but I'm still not convinced that patents are the right way to protect them. |
| 00:48.53 | derf | They're not. |
| 00:49.05 | derf | For software in particular, patents do far more harm than good. |
| 00:49.16 | SLi | For example, the devices had a way to transfer data to them from computers "using sound", i.e. you put them in front of your speaker and push a button in the Windows UI to play some sound. |
| 00:49.19 | derf | Pretty much every economic study in existence concludes the same thing. |
| 00:49.22 | pupnik | I don't see software patents requiring enough monetary investment to require patent protection. Weighed against the harms, benefits are negligible. |
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| 00:49.49 | SLi | The genious thing (that wasn't told to the user anyway) is that the sound was entirely a byproduct, the device used the magnetic field of the speaker. |
| 00:50.44 | derf | But see, that sounds like an actual device. |
| 00:50.50 | SLi | Now I don't like the patent system even outside the sw field, but I don't really know how such inventions should be protected either. Although I doubt innovation would stop even if the entire patent system was scrapped. |
| 00:50.53 | derf | I.e., someone had to build some hardware to measure the field. |
| 00:51.15 | SLi | Yeah, but the air pressure thing involves air pressure sensors too ;) |
| 00:51.33 | SLi | (And it's really just an antenna in the sound thing.) |
| 00:52.03 | derf | We do antenna design. It's not always as easy as you might think. |
| 00:52.09 | SLi | Yeah. |
| 00:52.32 | derf | But anyway... if the antenna itself was not patentable, I don't see why the software should've been. |
| 00:53.08 | derf | Just like if your air pressure sensors were not patentable, the software to estimate altitude from them should not have been, either. |
| 00:53.12 | SLi | Well, the argument usually goes, why should you be able to get around a patent just by using sw instead of hardware in some step? |
| 00:53.44 | SLi | That's why they try to talk a lot about "computer-implemented inventions". |
| 00:54.11 | derf | Well, that and the US Supreme Court has ruled they have to. |
| 00:54.15 | SLi | Because they argue that it's not in the nature of the inventions that you need a computer, you just can use a computer as a part of the invention and that arguably shouldn't get you around the patent protection. |
| 00:55.11 | pupnik | that's the german law iirc |
| 00:55.53 | SLi | Well, yeah, in US it's not the software that's patented, it's the computer that does something and the software just happens to be part of it. "Method and apparatus for ...". And showing stuff on the screen is considered a physical interaction with the world. |
| 00:56.22 | SLi | And the pro-patent people would like to confuse things in the EU in the same way. |
| 00:56.35 | pupnik | well it has kept ogg off my tablet, and for that alone i hate it. |
| 00:56.46 | pupnik | sorry to be so banal :) |
| 00:56.57 | bmidgley | ogg is mixed up with patents? |
| 00:57.24 | derf | The entire point of the Ogg project is to provide patent-unencumbered alteratives. |
| 00:57.34 | pupnik | there are persistent rumors of threats by mp3 patentholders against ogg |
| 00:57.46 | SLi | And again, in some cases it kind of makes sense. If we assume the patent system is a good thing (which I generally don't), then it probably shouldn't be possible to get around a patent just by replacing some hardware with software. The problem is that software is becoming more and more powerful. |
| 00:57.49 | pupnik | they would probably never hold up in court |
| 00:57.55 | derf | Rumors that have all been well and thoroughly debunked. |
| 00:58.07 | derf | But not in a court of law. |
| 00:58.32 | pupnik | right, and the mp3 patentholders know this, so they don't sue - knowing that the threat is effective only until struck down |
| 00:58.39 | derf | The problem is that software is just math. |
| 00:58.46 | derf | And math is not, and should not, be patentable. |
| 00:59.01 | SLi | I agree wholeheartedly with that. |
| 00:59.12 | SLi | And interestingly in the US it's been ruled to be speech too. |
| 00:59.12 | pupnik | i could be wrong about patent threat affecting the decision to support ogg in dsp |
| 00:59.14 | SLi | Like a recipe. |
| 00:59.18 | pupnik | nice |
| 00:59.27 | derf | pupnik: You are not wrong. |
| 00:59.40 | SLi | And basically, patents shouldn't prevent people from telling how something is done. |
| 00:59.43 | derf | SLi: I thought that ruling went the other way. |
| 00:59.50 | SLi | But that's exactly what they do - with programs! |
| 00:59.55 | ds3 | I want a patent on PI! ;) |
| 00:59.59 | SLi | derf, it was in the PGP case. |
| 01:00.09 | derf | ds3: Apply for one. You'll probably get it. |
| 01:00.20 | SLi | derf, that got crypto export restrictions scrapped. |
| 01:00.20 | wumpus | pupnik: not the only problem of decoding ogg on the dsp |
| 01:00.32 | ds3 | derf: then file patent suits against all the universities ;) |
| 01:00.36 | pupnik | i think vorbisidec/tremor is free |
| 01:00.37 | wumpus | I wanted to implement it but decoding ogg takes *a lot* of memory |
| 01:00.44 | pupnik | ah :/ |
| 01:00.48 | derf | ds3: You're going about this wrong. |
| 01:00.51 | ds3 | give me a PhD or I'll sue you out of existance! =) |
| 01:00.55 | derf | Universities don't have any money. |
| 01:01.09 | derf | Sue the car manufacturers, for all their insidious WHEELS. |
| 01:01.27 | pupnik | wumpus: maybe you could hook up with other ppl to get it worked-out? |
| 01:01.29 | SLi | Some of the granted bogus patents are truly hilarious. |
| 01:01.37 | ds3 | but if you talk to PhD students and the number years of their lives they paid to get it, it is worth more then money! |
| 01:01.39 | SLi | Like the Method of Swinging on a Swing patent. |
| 01:01.41 | pupnik | i liked the patent on XOR in australia |
| 01:01.45 | pupnik | haha |
| 01:01.54 | derf | ds3: My Ph.D. only took 4 years. |
| 01:02.01 | SLi | And then someone patented wheel, literally, IIRC in Australia. The Swing patent was in the US. |
| 01:02.05 | derf | And I came out with a lot more money than I went in with. |
| 01:02.17 | ds3 | derf: but that's 4 years ofyour life you'll never get back |
| 01:02.24 | pupnik | congrats derf :) |
| 01:02.26 | disq | maemo-installer-utils not included in chinook sdk? wonder if it's installed on the device |
| 01:02.37 | celesteh | man, i'm in the wrong phd program |
| 01:02.39 | derf | Yes. Similarly to all the years before it I won't get back, either. |
| 01:02.49 | SLi | http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?u=%2Fnetahtml%2Fsrchnum.htm&Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&r=1&l=50&f=G&d=PALL&s1=6368227.PN.&OS=PN/6368227&RS=PN/6368227 |
| 01:03.01 | SLi | I like it. "A method of swing on a swing is disclosed, in which a user positioned on a standard swing suspended by two chains from a substantially horizontal tree branch induces side to side motion by pulling alternately on one chain and then the other." |
| 01:03.18 | celesteh | i think i can claim prior art on that |
| 01:03.40 | SLi | celesteh, possibly, but you have to pay the reexamination fee to do that. |
| 01:04.08 | ds3 | PI: a method of measuring angular relationships where 2 entities.... |
| 01:04.38 | ds3 | hence forth claim pi as: 1 a method of determining distances around round objects.... |
| 01:04.39 | ds3 | :) |
| 01:05.25 | derf | This would be an excellent time to mention http://www.keithschofield.com/pi/std.html |
| 01:05.26 | SLi | There's the Australian wheel patent, "circular transportation facilitation device": http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~gfx/Courses/2002/BigData/papers/Misc/Wheel%20Patent.pdf |
| 01:05.59 | SLi | I'd say it's still a bit more obscured than "method of swinging on a swing", but.. |
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| 01:07.30 | celesteh | i'm going to patent the tuba |
| 01:07.57 | SLi | There's even a picture of, well, a wheel on the wheel patent. |
| 01:08.21 | celesteh | an arephone of extreme length with which can be used to produce bass tones through the user making a "raspberry" sound with their lips |
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| 01:08.47 | derf | I'm sure the patent examiner who saw that said, "Hah, I'll show my bosses. APPROVED." |
| 01:09.25 | SLi | "In particular, the device relates to a circular object which enables such goods and persons to be held above a surface and simultaneously moved with respect to the surface approximately parallel thereto." |
| 01:11.03 | celesteh | I can't believe that got granted |
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| 01:13.33 | thejapanesegeek | hello? |
| 01:13.36 | SLi | The response from the Commissioner of Patents? "To obtain the patent for a wheel would require a false claim, which is a very serious matter and would certainly invalidate the patent as well as amounting to a misrepresentation on the part of the applicant and unprofessional conduct by any professional advisor". |
| 01:14.50 | SLi | That case was some kind of fast-track thing I think, the US patent for Method of Swinging on a Swing passed full examination. |
| 01:15.28 | celesteh | that pi viedeo is truly weird |
| 01:15.58 | thejapanesegeek | Can anyone help me with what I assume is a bug? |
| 01:16.24 | zerojay | thejapanesegeek: Sure. |
| 01:17.27 | thejapanesegeek | zerojay: I installed a bunch of apps on my n800. I didn't like that they where in the Extras folder, so I moved them out of that folder. |
| 01:17.34 | thejapanesegeek | The folder was still there, but empty. |
| 01:17.46 | thejapanesegeek | I deleted it, which may not have been a great idea. |
| 01:18.05 | thejapanesegeek | I tried to install some new apps today. |
| 01:18.22 | thejapanesegeek | they appear in the app manager, but they do not appear anywhere else. |
| 01:18.37 | thejapanesegeek | I tried to make a new Extras folder in Navigation, but it tells me the folder already exists. |
| 01:18.38 | zerojay | Hmm. |
| 01:18.50 | zerojay | Yeah, I'd call that a bug. File it. |
| 01:19.01 | thejapanesegeek | okay. |
| 01:19.51 | zerojay | I would say that the expected behavior is that the apps are moved to a folder that exists or Extras is recreated if missing in the menu. |
| 01:20.40 | thejapanesegeek | anything to do but reflash it to get it to work? |
| 01:20.55 | zerojay | I don't know. I haven't come across that problem myself. |
| 01:21.11 | zerojay | But it would be nice to have it fixed before the next IT OS comes out. :) |
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| 01:25.35 | thejapanesegeek | Reinstalling will be a pain. I can't get wifi here right now, so I have to manually download debs from apt repos. It's not fun. |
| 01:33.42 | thejapanesegeek | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2144 |
| 01:33.46 | thejapanesegeek | submitted. |
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| 02:03.21 | disq | maemoscrobbler build for chinook ready in extras repo |
| 02:21.18 | derf | SLi, pupnik, et al.: http://www.pledgebank.com/nokia-ogg |
| 02:21.30 | derf | If you really would like Vorbis support out of the box. |
| 02:24.27 | Solarion | *sigh* I need an account to file a website bug about being unable to use my garage account on maemo.org? |
| 02:24.59 | Solarion | o is bugzilla separate? |
| 02:25.23 | Solarion | separate |
| 02:27.30 | Solarion | is weird that https://maemo.org and http://maemo.org are so different |
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| 02:42.16 | disq | rdesktop 0.4 chinook build ready in extras repo |
| 02:45.54 | zerojay | Solarion: Yes, bugzilla is separate. |
| 02:46.06 | Solarion | zerojay: I've filed my bug. :) |
| 02:46.13 | zerojay | Cool. |
| 02:46.26 | Solarion | zerojay: cool will be when its cause is found and fixed. :) |
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| 04:50.59 | disq | maemopad+ chinook build ready in extras repo if anybody's interested |
| 04:51.00 | disq | and night |
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| 05:34.34 | czr | mornink |
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| 05:50.57 | rene4jazz | hi all |
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| 05:51.46 | rene4jazz | how can I install libhildonwidgets.so |
| 05:51.48 | rene4jazz | _ |
| 05:51.49 | rene4jazz | ? |
| 05:53.34 | rene4jazz | Oh, sorry I all ready have it in the target |
| 05:53.42 | zoran | :) |
| 05:54.13 | czr | that's akin to asking "how do I install libc.so"? |
| 05:54.19 | rene4jazz | I'm starting to know laika eclipse plugin for scratchbox development |
| 05:54.20 | czr | always raises a brow or two :-) |
| 05:54.55 | czr | someone actually uses eclipse for maemo development? |
| 05:55.19 | zerojay | Oooh.. you poor bastard. |
| 05:55.45 | rene4jazz | I'm a eclipse C developer, I'll try to setup de enviroment for maemo |
| 05:55.59 | rene4jazz | de = the |
| 05:56.09 | czr | rene4jazz, you develop eclipse? or use eclipse for C development? |
| 05:56.34 | rene4jazz | the last one (use eclipse for C development) |
| 05:56.43 | czr | ok. thought so :-) |
| 05:56.52 | zoran | have enough room on 770/800? |
| 05:57.17 | zoran | scratchbox? |
| 05:57.18 | _Monkey | scratchbox is a cross-compilation toolkit for maemo application development. Homepage: http://www.scratchbox.org/ Maemo 3.x (bora/N800) tutorial: http://qurl.org/yN Maemo 2.2 (gregale/770) tutorial: http://qurl.org/zN A walkthrough for 3.x: http://qurl.org/0O Scratchbox Downloads: http://qurl.org/1O |
| 05:57.31 | rene4jazz | sorry for my poor english, it is not my mother language |
| 05:58.58 | rene4jazz | some one here uses eclipse for maemo development to? |
| 05:59.30 | czr | rene4jazz, you are the first person I know that does :-). that's why I asked |
| 05:59.40 | czr | but maybe someone does too. /me shrugs |
| 06:00.14 | zoran | rene4jazz, what would you like to develop for maemo? |
| 06:01.08 | rene4jazz | I'm developing a SCADA application (Supervisory Control and Data Adquisition...bla bla) |
| 06:01.56 | rene4jazz | and I want to build a port of the hmi module (hmi -> Human Machine Interface) |
| 06:02.56 | rene4jazz | the current desktop version uses gtk 2.10 i we use libcairo extensively for the mimics |
| 06:05.54 | rene4jazz | but in the n770 we can not use libcairo because of the lack of FP capability of the ARM processor of nokia has. |
| 06:06.36 | zoran | something like avocent remote manager? |
| 06:07.25 | rene4jazz | I dont know what is "avocent" |
| 06:07.46 | zoran | handheld device, that manages remote nodes |
| 06:07.58 | zoran | looks like tv remote |
| 06:08.11 | zoran | neve saw it with my eyes, frankly |
| 06:08.25 | rene4jazz | a sort of |
| 06:08.41 | zoran | could be a valuable project |
| 06:08.52 | zoran | spite I use ssh to do the same |
| 06:09.18 | rene4jazz | siemens have something like that |
| 06:09.34 | zoran | how much could it cost |
| 06:09.36 | rene4jazz | is for industrial appliances |
| 06:10.15 | rene4jazz | I dont know |
| 06:10.27 | zoran | some folks on this list use sshfs for data approach |
| 06:11.50 | rene4jazz | If any one is interested on developing with eclipse take a look at: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~laika/screenshots.shtml |
| 06:12.19 | rene4jazz | I'm taking now my first steps |
| 06:13.29 | zoran | the very first match on google :) |
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| 06:22.11 | czr | zoran, and the only one? :-) |
| 06:22.36 | zoran | :) |
| 06:23.02 | czr | damn, your nick reminds me of one analog TV-capture chip which did MJPEG compression |
| 06:23.08 | czr | zoran 1100 or smt like that |
| 06:23.32 | zoran | I don't show my metal extensions to the world |
| 06:23.44 | czr | safer that way, for sure :-) |
| 06:23.49 | zoran | :-) |
| 06:24.36 | zoran | readu to buy new 810 in fi? |
| 06:25.09 | czr | I need to test the keyboard first. make my decision after that. and I'm too busy to think about buying anything right now, maybe in couple of weeks |
| 06:25.43 | zoran | keyboard may be over, if it has to go in and out |
| 06:25.55 | zoran | do it 100 times |
| 06:25.57 | czr | otoh, I've bought all the previous models at least once, so I see why not :-) |
| 06:26.13 | zoran | hey, just 2 of them |
| 06:26.37 | czr | considering that I don't actually use them for anything, it's 2 too many :-) |
| 06:26.38 | zoran | btw, I don't see a lot my favorite apps on 800 |
| 06:26.48 | zoran | he-he |
| 06:26.51 | czr | yeah, seems a lot of sw is stagnating |
| 06:27.06 | zoran | nothing for command line users on n800 |
| 06:27.13 | zoran | so screen |
| 06:27.13 | czr | osso-xterm ftw |
| 06:27.36 | zoran | I know, xterm, but no mutt etc |
| 06:27.44 | zoran | lemme check now |
| 06:28.06 | czr | maybe the situation will improve once chinook comes out for the N800 |
| 06:28.07 | czr | maybe |
| 06:28.22 | zoran | probably not |
| 06:28.33 | czr | unless someone does something about it |
| 06:28.37 | zoran | if you have 12 years, you will like music and video and... |
| 06:28.49 | czr | have 12 years? |
| 06:28.54 | zoran | not me :) |
| 06:28.59 | zoran | no mutt for 800 |
| 06:29.18 | czr | have 12 years causes syntax error in my filological unit. please provide more data. |
| 06:29.45 | zoran | 10010010100101010100001010101 |
| 06:30.17 | czr | yarrr, no synchronization bits! |
| 06:30.25 | kala | I installed http://browser.garage.maemo.org/ on a ITOS 2007 HE running on 770 and now the "Web browser" gets "Internal error. Application Web closed". Can I run it from shell or with strace or how to find out whats wrong? |
| 06:30.51 | zoran | I am aware that it is not bug free; so I don't have it |
| 06:31.16 | zoran | personaly, I would like just x and simple window manager |
| 06:31.26 | zoran | liek fvwm or evilwm |
| 06:31.50 | czr | matchbox on the device is as simple as a wm can get btw |
| 06:32.07 | zoran | k, if I remove osso and hildon... |
| 06:32.12 | czr | heh |
| 06:32.16 | zoran | no netcat and no nmap for 800 |
| 06:32.27 | czr | zoran, why don't you build them? |
| 06:32.31 | czr | they're trivial to build |
| 06:32.43 | zoran | I have no spare box for linux in my room |
| 06:32.51 | czr | hmm. you want me to build them for you? |
| 06:32.57 | czr | I could use some break from my real work |
| 06:33.02 | zoran | no, I just have 770 and it works fine |
| 06:33.14 | czr | damn. I really could've used the break :-) |
| 06:33.38 | zoran | if somebody could help me, would think about firewall |
| 06:33.57 | czr | that'd require rebuilding the kernel afaik |
| 06:34.05 | zoran | I never feel happy and save without |
| 06:34.10 | zoran | *safe |
| 06:34.35 | zoran | hm, maybe adding module for nat and conntrack couldbe enough |
| 06:34.54 | czr | I don't think netfilter is included at all, let me check |
| 06:35.06 | zoran | it is! |
| 06:36.14 | czr | ah no. indeed. there are /proc/net/ip_tables_{matches,names,targets} |
| 06:36.19 | czr | my mistake |
| 06:36.54 | zoran | it has it's role to stop traffic from and to the box |
| 06:37.14 | zoran | but just in stateless mode |
| 06:37.21 | zoran | I tried it |
| 06:37.25 | zoran | and works |
| 06:37.45 | zoran | also takes imput file to work as rule set |
| 06:37.46 | czr | sure, I know netfilter, just didn't know it was enabled in the device kernel |
| 06:37.52 | czr | which one? |
| 06:37.53 | zoran | :) |
| 06:37.53 | _Monkey | somebody said which one was it? :) |
| 06:38.05 | zoran | ah, 3.2006.49-2 |
| 06:38.09 | czr | stfu _Monkey |
| 06:38.13 | zoran | lemme fire it up |
| 06:38.24 | czr | I'm running 2007 here though |
| 06:38.38 | zoran | 2.6 something |
| 06:38.47 | zoran | needs time |
| 06:38.47 | czr | no. I meant which file does it read |
| 06:39.06 | czr | on the device. for the packet rules. |
| 06:39.06 | zoran | I made my own to start from rc2.d |
| 06:39.14 | czr | ah. so it doesn't by default. |
| 06:39.15 | zoran | and lives in init.d |
| 06:39.21 | zoran | not now |
| 06:39.27 | czr | I thought you meant by default :-) |
| 06:39.31 | zoran | after fail, I removed it in furiosity |
| 06:40.09 | zoran | not as default, it was some nokia way to hide it |
| 06:40.25 | zoran | it works, maybe the name is different |
| 06:40.36 | zoran | however, it is up and ready to listen |
| 06:41.05 | zoran | and I had an issue with --state |
| 06:41.23 | rene4jazz | zora: do you know what is the "osso_initialize failed." message when I execute a binary? |
| 06:41.25 | zoran | then I got he light it was not built with nat and conntrack |
| 06:42.12 | zoran | rene4jazz, not sure, but sounds like graphics are not up cause come mistake in start up call |
| 06:42.25 | czr | rene4jazz, are you running it in the SDK or the device? |
| 06:42.32 | rene4jazz | SDK |
| 06:42.42 | czr | if in SDK, you need to run it with "run-standalone.sh ./name-of-app" |
| 06:42.57 | rene4jazz | I have the xephyr up and running on :2 display |
| 06:43.09 | czr | ossoinit binds to the D-Bus, and that won't work without proper env vars, which are setup by run-standalone.sh |
| 06:43.29 | rene4jazz | ok, I'll see |
| 06:43.56 | czr | also, do you have AF running? |
| 06:44.03 | czr | af-sb-init start? did you do that? |
| 06:44.03 | rene4jazz | nop |
| 06:44.11 | czr | ah. you need to start the AF in the SDK |
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| 06:44.36 | rene4jazz | segfault |
| 06:44.37 | _Monkey | i guess segfault is from trying to get listings |
| 06:44.37 | czr | that will start the d-bus daemons and the task navigator and all that (on xephyr, if your DISPLAY is set correctly) |
| 06:44.40 | rene4jazz | ups |
| 06:44.48 | rene4jazz | :-/ |
| 06:44.53 | czr | segfault in which step? |
| 06:44.59 | rene4jazz | af |
| 06:45.02 | rene4jazz | starting af |
| 06:45.05 | rene4jazz | wait |
| 06:45.16 | rene4jazz | i have to do some clean up first |
| 06:45.18 | zoran | czr, kernel is 2.6.16.rel-osso29 |
| 06:45.22 | czr | your SDK is not setup correctly most likely. which SDK version are you using? |
| 06:45.33 | czr | zoran, and that helps what and how? :-) |
| 06:45.44 | zoran | dunno :) |
| 06:45.48 | czr | ok :-) |
| 06:46.31 | czr | zoran, you might want to get the kernel source at some point. at least for n800. not sure about 770, how it works |
| 06:46.32 | zoran | what do you think about packet injection on maemo? |
| 06:46.44 | czr | depends on what you mean by packet injection, and maemo. |
| 06:46.59 | zoran | open port making outboud connection |
| 06:47.16 | zoran | should be trivial to find port and address |
| 06:47.41 | czr | err. I'm not following. what does opening outbound connections have to do with packet injection? |
| 06:47.48 | rene4jazz | it works!!!, :-D, i have my first example, compiled up and running |
| 06:47.56 | czr | rene4jazz, good for you :-) |
| 06:47.59 | zoran | \o/ |
| 06:48.39 | zoran | czr, if you know headers, you could pretend to be server that responds |
| 06:49.20 | czr | zoran, you'd need to do MAC-spoofing first |
| 06:49.30 | zoran | if protocols does not memorize the session, to me it looks dead duck |
| 06:49.35 | czr | unless you're trying to spoof client programs running on the device |
| 06:49.52 | czr | but what's the point? |
| 06:49.53 | _Monkey | the point is to make the user happy |
| 06:49.57 | zoran | mac spoofing is easy |
| 06:50.14 | czr | I mean, what would one achieve with this that isn't already possible with proper tools, and why on maemo? |
| 06:50.31 | zoran | only maemo has no firewall |
| 06:50.43 | czr | and that has what to do with this? |
| 06:50.46 | zoran | did you use device in public? |
| 06:51.05 | czr | firewalls don't protect against mac spoofing or other stuff happening outside your device |
| 06:51.08 | zoran | I'm scared to connect public ap |
| 06:51.14 | czr | then don't connect. |
| 06:51.27 | zoran | :) |
| 06:51.34 | mik_ | or use a vpn |
| 06:51.37 | czr | the device _does_ have 'offline mode' |
| 06:51.46 | zoran | k, mac spoofing stops then the next packet misses the line |
| 06:52.30 | zoran | ah, yes, I disable wifi out home net |
| 06:54.12 | zoran | folks, duty calls! bbl |
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| 07:10.56 | ticapix | morning |
| 07:10.56 | _Monkey | aloha |
| 07:12.48 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
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| 07:18.24 | tom0006 | morning |
| 07:18.25 | _Monkey | aloha |
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| 07:42.26 | rene4jazz | can I use sdl with openGL support on n770? |
| 07:43.25 | czr | rene4jazz, no |
| 07:43.32 | czr | you can use sdl. you can't use opengl |
| 07:43.50 | czr | hey jaffa |
| 07:49.12 | rene4jazz | I saw a screenshot of blender ported to nokia |
| 07:50.56 | czr | consider the device doesn't have a FPU, never mind 3D acceleration, why on earth would you want to? |
| 07:51.10 | czr | so yes, it is possible to get _software_ rendered opengl on the device. |
| 07:52.05 | rene4jazz | I know it has no FP unit, I just want to know how they did it |
| 07:52.16 | czr | swmesa reference renderer |
| 07:52.21 | czr | aka very very slowly. |
| 07:53.19 | rene4jazz | I looking at plutohome package on garage.maemo.org |
| 07:53.49 | rene4jazz | it has xlibmesa-glu-nokia770_arm.deb package as dependece |
| 07:54.09 | czr | right. glu != opengl though. |
| 07:54.30 | czr | or rather, glu is just one part of it. |
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| 07:54.41 | rene4jazz | and xlibmesa? |
| 07:55.13 | czr | xlibmesa above is where the implementation of glu comes from (the mesa project in this case, which is part of xorg nowadays AFAIK) |
| 07:55.33 | rene4jazz | roger that, thank's |
| 07:55.43 | czr | there can be other implementations of GLU on other systems, the mesa one is the most common on linux desktops |
| 07:56.13 | czr | glu just a bunch of utility functions which are useful to most opengl programs. it is not the complete opengl, and specifically, does not contain any of the gl_ functions (only glu_ ones) |
| 07:56.31 | czr | glu needs a proper libgl to run as well. |
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| 08:30.42 | tom006 | is flash working on the os2007 he ? |
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| 09:25.37 | _|Nix|_ | Aaaarrgh! I'm tryingf to set up a new /scratchbox for Chinook, and it keeps thinking it's arm, not armel ... grrrrr! |
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| 09:39.46 | kala | I'm following the http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_easily_boot_from_mmc_card/ instructions, but why are two partitions (VFAT and Ext2) needed? |
| 09:40.16 | kala | if I don't plan to use this MMC on Windows PC, then I could just use one large Ext2 part? |
| 09:41.56 | konttori | hey, just thought to let you guys know that fceu works on n810 |
| 09:42.34 | czr | konttori, cool. lardman was looking for someone with n810 btw. dmesg printouts and such. |
| 09:44.20 | konttori | so, no probs in there. For n810 would be better to position A+B in place of select+start though. ... I think |
| 09:44.32 | konttori | yeah. would be better |
| 09:47.31 | konttori | soo... is the super nintendo emulator also running already? |
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| 09:55.02 | kala | ok, it seems the first partition is needed when I connect N770 to PC with USB |
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| 10:41.20 | alterego | Transflective display :) That's been a long time coming. |
| 10:41.40 | ptman | is the n810 display transflective? |
| 10:42.08 | ptman | I thought transflective displays were worse in low-light conditions |
| 10:42.15 | alterego | So it would appear, check out the planet |
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| 10:43.28 | _|Nix|_ | OK, don't all briefly explain it to me at once ;o) |
| 10:44.13 | alterego | It means the display is viewable in sunlight :) That would explain the light sensor. |
| 10:44.44 | alterego | Should have guessed when I saw that :) |
| 10:44.51 | _|Nix|_ | :o) |
| 10:44.54 | _|Nix|_ | OK. Thanks! |
| 10:45.55 | _|Nix|_ | Ooooh! Cool! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transflective |
| 10:46.30 | _|Nix|_ | So, that means the display can essentially use the sun as a light source, obviating (to some extent) the need for a backlight ... |
| 10:52.11 | alterego | Exactly, it also means the GPS is useable during the day time. :) |
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| 10:54.58 | alterego | Right, back to work .. |
| 10:55.04 | _|Nix|_ | alterego: Well, after thinking about it for 1.5s, I realize that, just because it has a light sensor doesn't mean that it has a transflective display. The light sensor might be there only to determine that "Oh no, he's using it in the sunlight! I better /really/ crank the backlight and murder the battery!" I sincerely hope that's not the case. |
| 10:55.25 | gla55 | _|Nix|_: thats how it works on nokias phones |
| 10:55.29 | alterego | :) |
| 10:55.45 | _|Nix|_ | The N810 is not a phone ;o) |
| 10:55.48 | gla55 | just for determining how bright the backlight should be |
| 10:56.02 | alterego | _|Nix|_, that was actually my guess. But like gla55 said, on Nokia's phones that is how they're designed. I should have drawn a more appropriate assumption because of that ;) |
| 10:56.19 | suihkulokki | _|Nix|_: and setting the keypad backlight on when it's dark |
| 10:56.20 | alterego | Also, dimming when it's ultra-dark. |
| 10:56.28 | alterego | But obviously that's not the case :) |
| 10:56.56 | _|Nix|_ | OK, so no elegant harnessing-the-power-of-the-sun technology? :o( |
| 10:57.38 | alterego | Heh |
| 10:57.44 | alterego | You mean a solar panel? ^_^ |
| 10:58.08 | alterego | That would be a bad idea. Direct sunlight and LCD's aren't a particularly goodmix over long periods of time. |
| 10:58.19 | GeneralAntilles | I want an oveclocking app for the N800. |
| 10:58.29 | _|Nix|_ | alterego: No, the technology where the display can make use of the ambient lighting to reduce its reliance on the backlight. |
| 10:59.02 | alterego | Isn't that what transflective is all about? And the light sensor? |
| 10:59.10 | _|Nix|_ | GeneralAntilles: It's not that cold yet. I don't use a space heater until, at least December ;o) |
| 10:59.19 | GeneralAntilles | Hehe |
| 10:59.22 | alterego | Heh |
| 10:59.23 | GeneralAntilles | That's my PowerMac G5. |
| 10:59.37 | GeneralAntilles | I don't need heat during the winter. |
| 10:59.46 | GeneralAntilles | Though that could be due to the fact that I'm in Florida. ;) |
| 11:00.13 | _|Nix|_ | GeneralAntilles: There's been snow in Florida before, hasn't there? Just not often ... |
| 11:00.29 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah, it actually knows in jacksonville every once and a while. |
| 11:00.46 | GeneralAntilles | Last snow south of there was late 80s |
| 11:01.27 | GeneralAntilles | 1989 and 1993 |
| 11:01.28 | _Monkey | 3982 |
| 11:01.48 | GeneralAntilles | Haha |
| 11:01.55 | GeneralAntilles | Thanks, _Monkey! |
| 11:01.56 | _Monkey | GeneralAntilles: sure thing |
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| 11:23.25 | kala | anyone knows if http://www.hczim.de/software/mmc-unionfs.html works with OS2007? seems to be wonderful idea. |
| 11:25.49 | kala | nah, probably the package will not install and kernel module will not load. |
| 11:35.02 | Jiten | kala: well, I'd think it needs someone who isn't afraid to mess with kernel stuff. |
| 11:36.13 | Jiten | the code should mostly be complete since the module exists and is usable on desktop computers. Many live-cd:s use it to combine ramdisk and the filesystem on cd. |
| 11:37.42 | Jiten | however, it's probably better to just follow the "boot from MMC" instructions on the wiki. |
| 11:39.49 | kala | I think I'll just point the /usr and /home directory to filesystem on MMC |
| 11:40.13 | kala | its ugly but I somehow don't feel like "booting entirely from MMC" |
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| 11:41.51 | czr | I want a make where I don't need to write a makefile.. |
| 11:42.23 | |tbb| | synergy rocks |
| 11:42.26 | GeneralAntilles | Get to work, then. :P |
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| 11:47.08 | czr | GeneralAntilles, neh. just trying to save some typing from myself :-) |
| 11:47.39 | czr | the makefile is almost automatic now. one needs to list target filenames and it will decide what to do and which tools to use, and which source files too |
| 11:48.10 | alterego | czr, I use mkmf :) |
| 11:48.24 | czr | alterego, you assume that I'm building software with make. I'm not. |
| 11:48.54 | alterego | Shat on Earth are _your_ "makefiles" then? :) |
| 11:48.59 | alterego | ~What .. |
| 11:48.59 | infobot | ACTION .. to understand recursion, you must first understand recursion |
| 11:49.16 | czr | alterego, part of the material building framework |
| 11:49.29 | czr | the material production pipeline is driven by make |
| 11:49.34 | alterego | Ah |
| 11:50.57 | czr | the thing is, that I have a perfectly working system already for my own projects. but I can't use that for this project. |
| 11:51.17 | alterego | :/ |
| 11:51.26 | czr | copyright/ownership reasons basically. |
| 11:51.40 | _|Nix|_ | What's this? Whenever I try to use a python not provided by a devkit (such as bora's python2.5) I get a bunch of "sem_post: Function not implemented" |
| 11:52.00 | _|Nix|_ | How do I get around that? |
| 11:52.02 | czr | _|Nix|_, you're running that in armel target? |
| 11:52.08 | _|Nix|_ | czr: Yes. |
| 11:52.17 | alterego | czr, do you know why osso_application_unset_autosave_cb require's the callback data? |
| 11:52.21 | _|Nix|_ | czr: I need a higher version of python than scratchbox provides. |
| 11:52.29 | czr | it's the glibc/qemu/atomic-ops problem. don't run in ARMEL ;-) |
| 11:52.31 | alterego | (osso docs are a bit bad) |
| 11:52.50 | _|Nix|_ | czr: OK, and how am I supposed to roll a distro? |
| 11:52.50 | czr | alterego, throw me a link to the api, I'll tell you |
| 11:53.00 | czr | _|Nix|_, ask Nokia :-) |
| 11:53.26 | alterego | http://maemo.org/api_refs/3.0/libosso/index.html |
| 11:53.28 | czr | the ARMEL is supposed to be used only to cross-compile stuff. running python obviously is slightly problematic |
| 11:53.34 | _|Nix|_ | czr: Well, so far the messages have only been a nuisance. Lessee if they're fatal. ... |
| 11:53.42 | czr | _|Nix|_, have you tried the python2.5 in the extras-repo on bora? |
| 11:53.44 | _|Nix|_ | czr: Pyton is a build tool, in my case. |
| 11:53.49 | alterego | czr, it's under 'autosave' |
| 11:53.51 | _|Nix|_ | czr: Yep. |
| 11:53.52 | czr | _|Nix|_, yeah. feel your pain |
| 11:54.02 | czr | I feel your pain even :-) |
| 11:54.42 | czr | alterego, so that it knows which callback to remove |
| 11:54.52 | czr | alterego, since it supports multiple callbacks at the same time |
| 11:55.03 | alterego | Interesting. |
| 11:55.08 | alterego | Wait, no it doesn't. |
| 11:55.12 | czr | it doesn't? |
| 11:55.15 | alterego | I checked the source, it complains if there's |
| 11:55.21 | alterego | already a callback sdet. |
| 11:55.24 | czr | heh |
| 11:55.33 | czr | must be mistake in the API design |
| 11:55.49 | czr | hmm. or it calls the callback once more |
| 11:56.28 | alterego | Well, looking at the source, it doesn't use that parameter O_O |
| 11:56.43 | alterego | It doesn't even check it's value. |
| 11:56.48 | czr | then it's a mistake in the API. it's not the only one *coughs* |
| 11:57.01 | alterego | Anyhow, I only asked because I thought you were playing with this stuff the other day ;) |
| 11:57.08 | czr | I was. I still am |
| 11:57.11 | alterego | Ah |
| 11:57.14 | czr | but I didn't look at the autosaving bit |
| 11:57.41 | czr | since that's more related to the GUI side |
| 11:57.47 | czr | and I'm not writing about GUI now |
| 11:57.52 | alterego | :) |
| 11:58.46 | alterego | I've been rewriting my libosso bindings. |
| 11:58.58 | alterego | It's making me a bit nuts. |
| 11:59.40 | czr | well. "you can always read the source". That seems to be the standard answer for questions relating to libosso |
| 11:59.48 | alterego | Hah |
| 11:59.58 | czr | the sad part is that I'm not joking. |
| 11:59.58 | alterego | I'm just thankful I _can_ read the source :) |
| 12:01.11 | alterego | Yeah, OSSO is quite important, but it's __really__ badly documented, at least the C API is. |
| 12:01.28 | czr | alterego, under modules ->RPC, then find osso_rpc_get_timeout |
| 12:01.38 | czr | what does the function do? :-) |
| 12:01.41 | alterego | I've already bound that. |
| 12:01.47 | czr | yup |
| 12:01.49 | alterego | Returns the timeout? |
| 12:01.57 | czr | according to the API :-) |
| 12:02.00 | czr | the ref I mean |
| 12:02.12 | czr | "Sets the timeout value used by the RPC functions." |
| 12:02.20 | czr | now. see the small problem? :-) |
| 12:02.33 | czr | lucky us, the _set_timeout according to docs will return it. |
| 12:02.36 | czr | so all is well :-) |
| 12:03.02 | alterego | Strange. |
| 12:03.03 | _Monkey | Strange. is my / filesystem full? |
| 12:03.23 | czr | alterego, also, it never mentions what the default timeout is, and whether there is a timeout by default |
| 12:03.28 | alterego | So the API says it accepts a gint but the paramter documentation seems to think it accepts a pointer :) |
| 12:03.31 | czr | and such small matters are left to the developer |
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| 12:03.58 | czr | alterego, get_timeout will store the timeout behind a pointer |
| 12:04.00 | alterego | Well, I'm going to be very happy when I've finished this. |
| 12:04.13 | alterego | I hate the doxygen format. |
| 12:04.27 | alterego | That and ruby/maemo 1.0 will be complete :) |
| 12:04.28 | czr | I don't mind doxygen. when done properly. line in libdbus docs |
| 12:04.50 | czr | it was a joy to read those, esp after all the stuff in maemo api refs |
| 12:04.57 | czr | s/line/like/ |
| 12:05.04 | alterego | Heh, yeah. |
| 12:07.12 | *** join/#maemo sciboy (n=sciboy@124-171-244-32.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
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| 12:13.24 | _|Nix|_ | What's this now? "remember to run `libtool --finish /usr/lib/purple-2'" |
| 12:13.49 | _|Nix|_ | Geez! How will I ever manage to get this thing to build when it tells me I have to run things manually? |
| 12:19.10 | *** join/#maemo msh (n=matt@evil.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au) |
| 12:20.29 | alterego | Hmm .. |
| 12:20.51 | alterego | How can a function return OSSO_ERROR without actually ever returning it .. |
| 12:21.18 | Jaffa | ? |
| 12:21.47 | alterego | osso_application_unset_autosave_cb |
| 12:22.32 | alterego | The only explanation I have is that I'm looking at different source. |
| 12:22.40 | alterego | To the version that is in my SDK. |
| 12:22.45 | Jaffa | Hmm, any Nokians willing to comment on the quote in http://www.drobe.co.uk/riscos/artifact2114.html saying that Nokia are a big RISC OS user? Ah, presumably in one of their STBs |
| 12:23.03 | alterego | I'm a big Risc OS user :) |
| 12:24.39 | alterego | :) |
| 12:24.53 | alterego | My dad used to work for Acorn and ARM |
| 12:24.57 | Jaffa | Cool. |
| 12:25.40 | alterego | I've got an SA RiscPC that runs debian most of the time ^_^ |
| 12:26.08 | sciboy | I wonder how much easier it is to type on the hardware keyboard on the N810. |
| 12:26.23 | Jaffa | For the occasional order of http://www.jaffasoft.co.uk/product/wimpworks.html |
| 12:26.23 | alterego | My dad still uses his A7000 for GPS mapping. |
| 12:26.36 | Jaffa | Interesting. Using serial comms? |
| 12:26.48 | alterego | Yeah, he wrote a BBC BASIC program |
| 12:26.58 | Jaffa | sciboy: easier than the thumb keyboard, stylus keyboard or a Bluetooth keyboard? |
| 12:27.05 | alterego | It downloads the track log, opens a window and displays a map with the track log on it. |
| 12:27.20 | sciboy | Jaffa, Than on-screen keyboard. |
| 12:27.39 | sciboy | Jaffa, Bluetooth disqualified on the grounds of it already being a hardware keyboard. =P |
| 12:27.47 | alterego | I'd imagine it a lot better, because you can use two thumbs :) |
| 12:27.54 | alterego | And everyone loves buttons!!! |
| 12:27.58 | alterego | (backlit too!) |
| 12:32.49 | alterego | Shame it doesn't have a MP camera. |
| 12:32.59 | alterego | That would be great for those mobile bloggers. |
| 12:33.08 | alterego | Though I guess most phones have 'em now-a-days. |
| 12:36.39 | *** join/#maemo k-s (n=gustavo@20150184134.user.veloxzone.com.br) |
| 12:41.27 | czr | alterego, by the magic of copy-paste-comments :-) |
| 12:41.49 | czr | you just have to have source code that is compatible with the comments, and hey presto :-) |
| 12:48.54 | sciboy | I'm so annoyed that they aren't shipping my N800 in the 3-4 days they said it would take. Up to the second week now with no news. |
| 12:50.49 | alterego | sciboy, where did you order it from? |
| 12:51.37 | sciboy | Harris Technology, ht.com.au |
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| 12:52.25 | davis | hello |
| 12:52.42 | alterego | Right, never heard of them :) |
| 12:53.38 | sciboy | If I was willing to wait around a few weeks I would've ordered it from overseas with the recent price drop. =/ |
| 12:54.04 | alterego | Yeah |
| 12:54.31 | alterego | I got an N800 about 4 months ago. |
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| 12:59.37 | alterego | Oh. |
| 12:59.42 | alterego | Hmm .. I should have seen that. |
| 13:00.23 | disq | hmmm |
| 13:00.38 | alterego | I was calling the wrong function :) |
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| 13:10.19 | disq | wonder why my hildon_color_button_get_popup_shown call doesn't work. funny name for a function |
| 13:10.44 | disq | anybody else installed the 4.0 beta sdk? i have some questions, it's very weird for me |
| 13:10.51 | disq | not having questions, the sdk is. |
| 13:11.00 | *** join/#maemo konttori (n=konttori@a88-114-91-19.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 13:11.31 | disq | konttori: oh, hey. have you used the 4.0 beta sdk? keyboard bindings are off, right? or is it just me? |
| 13:11.53 | konttori | I haven't used it at all. sorry |
| 13:11.58 | disq | okay :) |
| 13:12.10 | disq | got some apps in the chinook extras repo if you're interested |
| 13:12.21 | disq | rdesktop, maemopad+ and maemoscrobbler |
| 13:12.36 | konttori | I decided that I won't install any programming related stuff @ work until chinook is out. well, it's out now, so I might end up installing it. |
| 13:13.03 | konttori | ahh... great. Thanks! Wow. so coo. I'll test them out asap (well, not rdesktop, as I don't use it) |
| 13:13.39 | disq | had to switch to libwpeditor-plus from the modest svn, as libwpeditor was not included in the sdk or anywhere, and didn't compile |
| 13:14.22 | konttori | what is libwpeditor? For the maemopad? |
| 13:14.33 | disq | my sdk is really acting up so i can't tell whether it's all working all not. keyboard bindings are off, all i got is the green channel (X server issue) and as there's no xterm can't get debug output |
| 13:15.02 | disq | yeah. it was used in osso-notes in bora. a gtktextview with easy to use markup support |
| 13:15.32 | disq | i like using nokia-developed components (as long as they're open source) |
| 13:15.51 | konttori | makes sense. |
| 13:15.58 | konttori | I installed maemopad+ now. |
| 13:16.10 | konttori | testing it quickly |
| 13:16.26 | konttori | does it use sqlite as backend ? |
| 13:16.30 | disq | yeah sqlite3 |
| 13:17.21 | konttori | great. I've been more and more interested in usage of sqlite. |
| 13:17.34 | disq | it's good, been using it since IT2005 :) |
| 13:17.37 | konttori | maemopad+ works perfectly. Great. Testing scrobbler now. |
| 13:18.31 | konttori | I hope my user settings are correct... now starting ukmp |
| 13:18.41 | disq | couldn't test scrobbler very much as the cp applet requires keyboard input :) btw maemo-install-utils are not included in the sdk and not in any repository either so i had to get rid of maemo-confirm-text in the installer |
| 13:19.08 | disq | filed a bug on bugzilla for that though. |
| 13:19.17 | konttori | I hope it's fixed quickly |
| 13:19.28 | disq | yeah. it also provides maemo-select-menu-location |
| 13:19.42 | konttori | the utils work on the device though. (ukmp shows confirmation dialog perfectly) |
| 13:19.55 | disq | ah. nice. they're bundled then |
| 13:20.12 | konttori | By the way, I'm managing application manager along with marius, so if you have any ideas / things that need fixing, please let me know. |
| 13:20.20 | alterego | Is the SDK out of Beta yet? |
| 13:20.30 | konttori | I don't think so. |
| 13:20.43 | alterego | Just checking that I don't have to upgrade ;) |
| 13:20.49 | konttori | but the beta is a bit outdate from what I've heard, so probably there will be non - beta soon |
| 13:21.07 | alterego | My scratchbox partition is getting dangerously low on space. I think I'm going to have to do someting about that soon. |
| 13:21.23 | *** join/#maemo b0unc3 (n=b0unc3@217.202.195.103) |
| 13:21.26 | b0unc3 | hello |
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| 13:21.44 | konttori | sweet! maemo scrobbler is working: http://www.last.fm/user/konttori/ |
| 13:21.49 | disq | yeah my /scratchbox is 3.2 gigs :) |
| 13:21.52 | disq | oh. good news |
| 13:21.53 | _Monkey | i heard good news was that pretty much all of this applies to the N800, too. (with OS2008). |
| 13:21.55 | disq | thanks for the testing :) |
| 13:22.02 | disq | _Monkey: forget good news |
| 13:22.02 | _Monkey | disq: I forgot good news |
| 13:22.05 | disq | _Monkey: good news is <reply> |
| 13:22.06 | _Monkey | OK, disq. |
| 13:22.10 | konttori | np. thanks for making such a great service! |
| 13:22.13 | alterego | disq, same as mine :) |
| 13:22.25 | alterego | I've only got 400Mb free space on that partition now :/ |
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| 13:24.45 | konttori | disq: do you guys use sqlite in kagu for cover image storage as well? |
| 13:24.57 | konttori | Just wondering if you did any performance testing for that |
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| 13:25.27 | pupnik | i think maemo devs should all have psions |
| 13:25.59 | quinlan^ | Whys that? |
| 13:26.02 | disq | i think they should all have newtons. |
| 13:26.06 | pupnik | :P |
| 13:26.14 | konttori | I've been thinking of either using a sqlite db for the cover images, or making cache image approach to store all the covers in one biggish image. to speed up the initial cover loading. |
| 13:26.34 | konttori | for some reason reading images from the file system takes large overhead for just opening the file. |
| 13:26.44 | disq | konttori: no, cover images and albumcache are in seperate files in ~/.kagu. not sure how it'd work with sqlite blobs |
| 13:26.50 | konttori | so, either the cropping image approach, or the sqlite would make sense |
| 13:27.09 | konttori | you can store and load image in pygame as strings |
| 13:27.20 | konttori | so, it's easy to store them in db |
| 13:27.22 | disq | we use a big albumcache.tga and a big artistcache.tga for album/artist covers, with reflections and all |
| 13:27.31 | disq | serializing images as strings is not a good idea |
| 13:27.37 | disq | you could just store them as blobs in sqlite |
| 13:27.37 | konttori | why so? |
| 13:27.41 | konttori | true |
| 13:28.19 | disq | because it'd take time |
| 13:28.19 | konttori | does it? |
| 13:28.19 | konttori | I mean, it should be the same bits, just in a different datatype, right? |
| 13:28.19 | disq | why wouldn't it? few hundred images? |
| 13:29.17 | pupnik | konttori: can the N810 receive dpad input at the same time as pressing an alphanumeric key? |
| 13:29.25 | disq | good question |
| 13:29.28 | konttori | yeah. |
| 13:29.49 | pupnik | ok then fceu just needs some alternate/equivalent keymaps for buttons |
| 13:29.57 | konttori | There's a good story to tell about that, but I'll have to skip telling it this time. |
| 13:30.21 | konttori | pupnik: I tested fceu and it works brilliatly. thanks for that. |
| 13:30.52 | pupnik | Tak ported fceu. It's good to hear that re: dpad+keys |
| 13:31.07 | konttori | pupnik: backspace for A, p for B. (would be my initial test configuration for the keys) |
| 13:31.51 | konttori | anyone eager to port xchat? |
| 13:31.55 | konttori | I would love that! |
| 13:32.03 | pupnik | it's available |
| 13:32.27 | celesteh | xchat? |
| 13:32.27 | _Monkey | xchat is a gtk-based IRC client. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/maemo-xchat/ |
| 13:32.34 | celesteh | awesome! |
| 13:33.06 | celesteh | I've been using gaim. this will be way better! |
| 13:33.45 | disq | konttori: could you test that, in maemopad+, in a "sketch node", menu->tools->color... work? it's supposed to "click on the" colorbutton. i replaced the function with a new one hildon-1 provides but doesn't work in the sdk, no crashes either. maybe an assert but can't see them right now |
| 13:34.52 | disq | also, does "pressure sensitive brush size" work OK? touching the drawing area with the finger is supposed to do something (which i forgot, full screen? disable toolbar/left bar?) does it do that? |
| 13:35.07 | pupnik | thanks disq - maemopad+ is one of my favorites |
| 13:35.29 | disq | it still needs paged sketches support and a better organized sourcecode :P |
| 13:36.12 | *** join/#maemo Quinlan^ (n=quinlan@c-24-21-48-161.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 13:36.22 | Jaffa | disq: does maemopad+ have an option for creating notes with no title? i.e. it'll take the first line or something? I haven't tried it for ages, I find input on my N800 to be too slow for my quick mind ;-) |
| 13:36.56 | disq | we should add that (now that I have two more developers working on mp+) |
| 13:37.12 | konttori | disq: menu tools color does not work |
| 13:37.23 | disq | though it could only be active for text nodes or checklists |
| 13:37.28 | Jaffa | One of the big advantages of Psion's Jotter - I could just open it up and start typing (similarly, reloading the previous note file woud be handy) |
| 13:37.35 | disq | konttori: ok thanks :) |
| 13:37.36 | konttori | clicking on the color works though |
| 13:37.41 | konttori | in the toolbar |
| 13:37.58 | pupnik | agree with Jaffa |
| 13:38.06 | disq | Jaffa: it saves the state and loads it automatically on startup |
| 13:38.12 | konttori | but its saying that color cannot be modified whn I try to change the color |
| 13:38.14 | Jaffa | disq: cool - told you it had been ages :-) |
| 13:38.22 | disq | it was there from the beginning i think :P |
| 13:38.31 | Jaffa | Yeah, I'm blaming my memory now |
| 13:38.48 | disq | konttori: mmm. weird. choose a color, or change the chosen color via a color picker? |
| 13:39.09 | disq | i could switch to other colors in the beta sdk, didn't try to modify the preset ones tho |
| 13:39.17 | konttori | Pressure sensitive brush color seems to work |
| 13:39.52 | davis | anybody use usb networking? |
| 13:39.59 | konttori | If I choose any of the predefined colors, they work... ah damn! sorry. I mistook the behavior. |
| 13:40.09 | konttori | I had to choose an empty slot to have user color |
| 13:40.14 | konttori | now its working perfectly |
| 13:40.16 | disq | any idea why would launching the app from sbox prompt doesn't work? I have to launch it from the desktop menu and can't see assert/debug messages that way |
| 13:40.25 | disq | ah, ok |
| 13:40.47 | disq | davis: i think i did once, in a hotel room. but it has been a long long time |
| 13:41.18 | davis | disq: I was able to ping the nokia from my pc using usb networking. |
| 13:41.35 | davis | disq: but, i can not get routing to work in opera though. |
| 13:41.56 | disq | ah, you need to create a dummy access point |
| 13:42.03 | davis | i did that |
| 13:42.08 | *** join/#maemo hell (n=hell@87.252.242.16) |
| 13:42.14 | disq | set it to ad-hoc and set ip to 0.0.0.0 so that it won't interfere |
| 13:42.23 | davis | i even added an entery in /etc/resolv.conf for my pc's nameserver. |
| 13:42.43 | disq | oh. opera works (doesn't try to connect) but routing doesn't work? |
| 13:42.58 | davis | let me try to set ad-hoc and 0.0.0.0 |
| 13:43.11 | konttori | disq: can you consider adding support for text entry element to the maemopad+ |
| 13:43.15 | disq | yeah. just setting the name to "dummy" worked in OS2006, doesn't in bora. |
| 13:43.21 | konttori | also, a clear button in the toolbar would be cool |
| 13:43.29 | davis | ping from my pc to the nokia works. opera will not bring up webpages, and nslookup on the nokia fails to find hosts. |
| 13:43.37 | disq | konttori: text entry element? on sketches, i presume? |
| 13:44.20 | disq | konttori: to be honest it's a lot of work and not even sure how to do that (provided the text should be always editable, not like cheap paint programs) |
| 13:45.29 | disq | davis: the dummy access point only helps to skip some apps' "oh i'm not connected" behavior. it won't fix the routing or other things. no idea, though |
| 13:45.48 | davis | disq: how do I change the ip for the default connection? |
| 13:46.03 | disq | the advanced button in the last step |
| 13:46.43 | zoran | does it write some ifconfig line in conf file? |
| 13:46.44 | disq | that UI desperately needs a redesign, though. it's so painful to configure connections manually |
| 13:47.03 | disq | ah, no idea how it works. i'm away for a few minutes, good luck |
| 13:47.12 | davis | hmm. i am using connection manager. I can search connections and connect to them only. |
| 13:47.12 | zoran | :) |
| 13:47.40 | konttori | disq: I think editable until unselected would be cool enough |
| 13:47.56 | zoran | I bet it makes conf file somewhere |
| 13:48.16 | disq | konttori: wouldn't be practical for real "sketching" |
| 13:48.50 | konttori | true. Just wondering. |
| 13:49.14 | konttori | mostly because there is the kb now, so it might have been usefull for commenting parts of the sketch. |
| 13:49.26 | konttori | but, of course, if needed, there is always the text note method then |
| 13:49.42 | disq | i agree we need a unified memo type |
| 13:49.53 | disq | but give me the widget and i'll write the code for it :P |
| 13:50.46 | disq | implementing the sketch widget with multiple tiled undo levels (it takes so little memory, even usable in the 770) was adventure enough :) |
| 13:52.15 | konttori | I can imagine that it cannot have been too much fun! |
| 13:52.50 | konttori | I have been wondering whether the approach of supporting to move 30 secs or 1 minute back would be good idea for scetching |
| 13:53.25 | konttori | so that instead of 20 levels of small changes undo, you would have go back 15,40,45,60,120 seconds. |
| 13:54.06 | konttori | so, that would be 5 levels of undo, but with full size image for all of them. |
| 13:54.15 | konttori | does that make any sense? |
| 13:54.46 | konttori | at the moment, I was sketching something and I ran out of undo levels, because I was doing small lines all the time (a lot of them) |
| 13:54.56 | *** join/#maemo Agogo (n=root@115.109.50.60.klj03-home.tm.net.my) |
| 13:55.04 | zerojay | Anyone happen to know if any sort of work was done on the Media Player in IT 2008 to fix the tons of bugs against it? |
| 13:55.59 | konttori | from what I understood, it's a complete re-write (although I may be mistaken, so don't count on that) |
| 13:56.26 | zerojay | Oh, that's a surprise. |
| 13:56.32 | konttori | Hey, anyone interested in taking the time to compile mplayer for the device? |
| 13:56.39 | konttori | serge hasn't been around too much lately |
| 13:56.58 | zerojay | I would but I don't have scratchbox/sdk set up. |
| 13:57.39 | davis | hmm. i am trying to get this usb networking to work 100%. I have an ssh session from my pc to the nokia using usb. I have edited /etc/resolv.conf to add my company's dns server. I have done a route and the default route goes to my pc. My pc is winXP(shudder) and I have sharing enabled on the usb networking connection. What am I doing wrong? |
| 13:59.39 | konttori | disq: any chance of you considering adding offline support to maemoscrobbler? |
| 14:00.01 | konttori | so that it would cache listened music and when online, send the notifications to lastfm? |
| 14:00.06 | *** join/#maemo rev` (n=rev|x@208-45-124-181.dlth.qwest.net) |
| 14:00.06 | zerojay | Doesn't it already support that? If you're offline, it saves up your song data until you're connected again. |
| 14:00.16 | konttori | ahhh.. sorry then. I didn't know that |
| 14:00.28 | zerojay | At least it does for me when I used it last. |
| 14:00.29 | konttori | cool. even better than I had hoped then! |
| 14:00.40 | zerojay | (Wish Media Player would support scrobbling...) |
| 14:00.49 | konttori | it doesn't support that? |
| 14:00.59 | konttori | well, just use ukmp ... ;) |
| 14:01.04 | konttori | or kagu... ;) |
| 14:01.14 | davis | if on the nokia, I do nslookup www.google.com 9.0.6.1 It says *** unknown host. |
| 14:01.24 | zerojay | Yeah, that's the thing... I want to stay as far away from those as possible, no offense. ;) |
| 14:02.02 | disq | :) |
| 14:02.06 | zerojay | I don't like music players I won't be looking at much to have a huge shiny non-standard interface. |
| 14:02.13 | zerojay | But that's just me. ;) |
| 14:02.30 | disq | add scrobbler support to mpd. or, there might already be something for it |
| 14:02.32 | zoran | davis, what kind of connection do you have, again? |
| 14:02.44 | davis | zoran: i have a usb networkingn setup. |
| 14:02.53 | davis | i am trying to follow the howto's at maemo. |
| 14:03.08 | zoran | sure 770/800 could work usb net? |
| 14:03.16 | zerojay | I filed a bug a few months ago asking the built in Media Player to support Maemoscrobbler.. Doubt that will be fixed though. |
| 14:03.18 | zoran | not wireless? |
| 14:03.34 | davis | not wireless. |
| 14:03.45 | konttori | zerojay: I can completely understand that you like music player to be small and simple. |
| 14:03.51 | zoran | via ppp? |
| 14:03.54 | davis | i am at work. we require a leap account sestup in order to use wireless. |
| 14:04.03 | davis | setup |
| 14:04.35 | zoran | what protocol do you use, I'm curious? |
| 14:04.45 | zerojay | Media Player isn't the greatest, but I like the library and having all of my media in one program, videos, music, internet radio, etc... |
| 14:05.28 | *** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com) |
| 14:05.48 | zerojay | I just wish that the N800 supported Samba by default. |
| 14:05.56 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah, there's a lot to be said for the centralization in media player. |
| 14:06.04 | GeneralAntilles | zerojay, I think OS2008 will. |
| 14:06.13 | GeneralAntilles | It keeps coming up on the ITT forums. |
| 14:06.16 | davis | zoran: its the usb networking setup as described on the wiki. |
| 14:06.16 | *** join/#maemo NickDe (n=fd5ffbab@121.sub-75-214-207.myvzw.com) |
| 14:06.23 | GeneralAntilles | Mara said something about Samba support. |
| 14:06.35 | zoran | davis, could you point me to that page? |
| 14:06.39 | davis | you basically add a script to /etc/init.d/ ... yes. |
| 14:06.40 | zerojay | If Media Player could also scrape Shoutcast for streams, that would be awesome too... another bug I filed ages ago. |
| 14:06.41 | davis | hold on. |
| 14:07.01 | konttori | well, you have videos in ukmp... ;) Anyway, I actually like music player to be music player and then a good video player for videos. |
| 14:07.13 | davis | http://maemo.org/community/wiki/usbnetworking/ |
| 14:07.19 | zoran | k, looking at |
| 14:07.32 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah, I'd agree for a desktop. |
| 14:07.45 | GeneralAntilles | But it makes it easier to get to what your after if it's all together on a mobile platform. |
| 14:08.42 | zerojay | Video Center does a good job of not getting in Media Player's way. Download what you want through Video Center, they show up in Media Player.. |
| 14:09.27 | zoran | davis, huh! |
| 14:09.31 | zerojay | When I first got my N800, I downloaded pretty much every 3rd party app out there. |
| 14:09.49 | zerojay | These days, I'd rather just have more stuff integrated. |
| 14:09.52 | davis | zoran: huh? |
| 14:10.08 | zoran | to me it seems better to first do --enable-usb-host mode |
| 14:10.24 | GeneralAntilles | It'll be easier when we don't have to wipe everything and start over with each OS update, zerojay. |
| 14:10.47 | zoran | but I did not see that 770 could use xp box as a router |
| 14:10.54 | zerojay | Yeah, that's true, though that doesn't really bother me much... except for the fact that our cookies/saved passwords are wiped as well. |
| 14:11.02 | zoran | just oposite, if even possible |
| 14:11.04 | alterego | GeneralAntilles, well, yes and no. An update could break software, like it usually does. |
| 14:11.05 | zerojay | And not backed up. |
| 14:11.19 | alterego | Sure, userdata should be persistant but OS and programs should be installed together. |
| 14:11.39 | GeneralAntilles | True, but then we just download the update from app manager when the dev updates things, right? |
| 14:11.56 | alterego | Provided they're there sure. |
| 14:12.01 | zoran | davies, you need outboud connection from your 800? |
| 14:12.08 | zoran | *outbound |
| 14:12.20 | alterego | If all deps are correct, apt should uninstall things that it can't upgrade to work with a dist upgrade. |
| 14:12.23 | GeneralAntilles | Seems likely that there'll be fewer breaks going forward now that Gtk is up to date, no? |
| 14:12.39 | alterego | Well, Gtk is only half of the story :) |
| 14:12.44 | alterego | If half ^_^ |
| 14:12.49 | GeneralAntilles | Hehe, true. |
| 14:13.25 | alterego | I have a couple of lose ends and then I've got the last part of this module to do. |
| 14:13.40 | alterego | I saved the hardest, most complicated, bit til last .. |
| 14:13.44 | GeneralAntilles | But, still, breaks should probably come less often going forward as maemo stabilizes. |
| 14:13.55 | alterego | Yes, definitely. |
| 14:14.53 | GeneralAntilles | Either way, I wub my N800. :D |
| 14:14.59 | alterego | Heh |
| 14:15.04 | alterego | Yes, it's a neat device :) |
| 14:15.21 | alterego | I've probably spent more time coding for it than actually using it though ^_^ |
| 14:16.25 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah, I know the feeling (though with game content creation and not coding >_>) |
| 14:16.32 | alterego | I've wrote 640 lines so far today :/ |
| 14:18.20 | zerojay | all comments? ;) |
| 14:19.15 | alterego | Hah, no. |
| 14:19.24 | alterego | I don't generally comment my code much. |
| 14:19.32 | alterego | I try to code in a way that documents itself ^_^ |
| 14:19.59 | zerojay | maemo sdk |
| 14:20.00 | _Monkey | i think maemo sdk is the software development environment for nokia tablets - a quick howto for installing is here: http://www.ptlug.org/wiki/Howto_Installing_Maemo_SDK_for_Nokia_770 |
| 14:20.01 | alterego | I have been writing in a test driven manner and simultaneously writing API documentation ^_^ |
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| 14:21.43 | zoran | davis, if nokia device is a router, it must have inner and outer interface |
| 14:22.11 | davis | zoran: my nokia is not a router. that is not my wish. |
| 14:22.15 | konttori | I've been quite happy that since I got the n810 I have been using it quite a lot (and not only for listening to music / coding for it). It's much more useful device than n800 was / is |
| 14:22.29 | konttori | Have you all guys subscribed to the developer program? |
| 14:22.39 | zoran | davis, what did you try to connect? |
| 14:22.45 | davis | i want my pc to be the router. ie. my pc is connected to LAN via ethernet and to my pc via usb. |
| 14:23.08 | davis | from my pc, I tried to ssh/ping my nokia. Which I can do. I have a shell open on the nokia via pc now. |
| 14:23.16 | GeneralAntilles | Howso, konttori? |
| 14:23.23 | GeneralAntilles | Mostly due to OS2008 or keyboard? |
| 14:23.39 | davis | however, on nokia if I do a nslookup foo, it fails. it does not know how to handle route or dns info. i am not sure what is the problem. |
| 14:23.43 | zoran | should be oposite |
| 14:23.55 | Robot101 | konttori: have you tried the SIP stuff? :) |
| 14:24.04 | davis | route -a on the nokia shows the default gw is the pc, so it seems that routing is ok. |
| 14:24.16 | zoran | davis, 770 should be the one that starts the ssh connection |
| 14:24.19 | davis | i wish I had ping on nokia so i could try to ping something. |
| 14:24.32 | alterego | konttori, I applied yesterday afternoon. |
| 14:24.43 | davis | on the 770, i start sshd. I ssh to the nokia using my pc as the client. |
| 14:24.45 | zoran | in repository? |
| 14:24.47 | alterego | Not getting my hopes up or anything though :) |
| 14:24.58 | davis | i dont have a sshd running on my pc so I can not ssh to it. |
| 14:25.18 | zoran | davis, I think yu hafe to run sshd on the pc |
| 14:25.35 | zoran | or just netcat? |
| 14:25.42 | zoran | it could be better |
| 14:25.48 | zerojay | E: Currently Scratcbox can only run in 32 bit i386 architecture. <-- boooooooooooooooo |
| 14:25.50 | zoran | you could make 2 way talk |
| 14:26.11 | zoran | there is netcat for win and linux |
| 14:26.26 | zoran | -L is flag to listen on the port |
| 14:26.53 | zerojay | konttori: It looks a little less useful as I won't be able to take pictures with it. |
| 14:27.09 | zoran | davis, bbl |
| 14:27.16 | konttori | GeneralAntille: Yeah, mostly due to the keyboard. I's so much easier to use all the web related stuff, take notes and so on with the kb |
| 14:27.28 | davis | i hate to say this but my employeer considers ncat to be a trojan. even if I try to unpack a zip file with ncat in it, the corporate antivirus sw will delelte it. |
| 14:27.33 | davis | so, i can not do that. |
| 14:27.43 | zerojay | davis: Most do. |
| 14:27.55 | konttori | zerojay: just point the device to where you want to take a pic from (or use your camphone) |
| 14:28.13 | zerojay | konttori: I don't and won't ever get a phone. |
| 14:28.30 | *** join/#maemo AD-N770 (n=jep@24.Red-80-26-22.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 14:28.38 | konttori | I didn't try SIP, but I've heard that it works surprisingly well |
| 14:28.51 | zerojay | It's the final version of RTCOMM as far as I know. |
| 14:28.56 | konttori | a few co-workers have been using it to call abroad to friends/relatives. |
| 14:28.58 | gla55 | using voip kind of defeats whole "i won't ever get a phone" |
| 14:29.23 | zerojay | gla55: As I use phones all day every day for work, I can tell you that it doesn't. |
| 14:29.34 | gla55 | just different protocol |
| 14:29.41 | zerojay | Doesn't matter. |
| 14:29.48 | gla55 | who cares if it's voip or gsm packets |
| 14:30.11 | zerojay | I guess you don't care if you get monthly bills either, huh? |
| 14:30.38 | konttori | wimax might make the SIP even more useful in the future. |
| 14:30.44 | gla55 | if i used voip, i'd still get an umts modem(some phone probably) and 10e/month |
| 14:30.44 | zerojay | Yes, it will. |
| 14:30.48 | konttori | Don't know how the phone companies will handle that |
| 14:31.05 | zerojay | I'm glad Canada's almost completely covered by Wimax. |
| 14:31.07 | gla55 | phone companies will provide the wimax, duh, and the data connections to the base stations |
| 14:31.35 | konttori | but will they be able to charge as ridiculous amounts as they do in the states for phone connections at the moment |
| 14:31.43 | gla55 | if it's just "i want to phone for free", it's not exactly the same as "i don't want a phone" |
| 14:32.07 | zerojay | gla55: I don't want a cell phone. Plain and simple. N800 is not a cell phone. Get over it. |
| 14:34.49 | alterego | Yeah, cell phones will be completely dead when WiMAX takes over. |
| 14:35.11 | konttori | get a n95 (quoting nokia: look at what computers have become) ;) Just teasing. In the end n800 and n95 are pretty much the same thing inside. |
| 14:35.17 | gla55 | they'll still be cellphones.. just with wimax |
| 14:36.51 | alterego | I'm just saying that the "cell" architecture, GSM etc will eventually die out. |
| 14:37.07 | alterego | Which is cool. |
| 14:37.46 | davis | cool. |
| 14:37.54 | alterego | It opens up possibilities for providers though, they could maybe do deals with customers, free access in a local zone and charge when using a more global scope. |
| 14:38.08 | davis | i can listen to radioparadise.com mp3 streams with my nokia connected to my pc via usb. |
| 14:38.27 | gla55 | well sure, i mostly use my phone for data anyhow.. but currently, i don't see much advantage from wimax as i don't see anyone building a statewide wimax network here and offering it at 10e per month |
| 14:39.46 | alterego | Data rates in England are obscene. Luckily I know where all the free access points are around where I live so I can get by quite easily :) |
| 14:40.00 | davis | and install .debs from net. |
| 14:40.38 | *** join/#maemo lopz (n=gentoo-D@unaffiliated/lopz) |
| 14:40.49 | gla55 | alterego: hunting for wifi in london sucked bigtime |
| 14:41.01 | lopz | hola |
| 14:41.01 | _Monkey | hi, lopz |
| 14:41.09 | gla55 | and the wifi visible in the hotel was like 20£ per week |
| 14:41.10 | alterego | I've not been to London in _ages_ .. |
| 14:41.22 | alterego | Sheesh |
| 14:41.25 | gla55 | i was last week.. for the smartphone show |
| 14:41.42 | konttori | n810 seems to have wimax locator in the navigation application. That is pretty neat |
| 14:41.42 | alterego | I live in Cambridge. |
| 14:43.35 | alterego | Hmm .. Think I'll move on to something else for a while. |
| 14:43.41 | alterego | I'm getting a bit sick of OSSO now :) |
| 14:44.07 | davis | hmm. so where can I get alternate busyboxes, or sources and sdk's to build my own? |
| 14:44.31 | alterego | busybox source code is available on the internet. |
| 14:44.47 | alterego | There are tutorials on installing the SDK on the maemo.org site. |
| 14:45.09 | davis | are they on the garage site or regular maemo? |
| 14:45.28 | alterego | busybox is busybox. |
| 14:45.34 | alterego | Go to the busybox website. |
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| 15:43.39 | bedboi | hi there |
| 15:43.55 | celesteh | howdy |
| 15:47.32 | alterego | Hmm, anyone know how I can force an autosave event to occur for an application I'm writting? But it has to occur from _outside_ my program. |
| 15:49.58 | derf | Isn't that what dbus is for? |
| 15:50.15 | alterego | Sure .. |
| 15:50.16 | alterego | How? |
| 15:50.39 | derf | Go read your friendly dbus documentation. |
| 15:50.44 | alterego | -_- |
| 15:50.52 | alterego | Yeah, because that's going to help. |
| 15:51.17 | alterego | Ah, nevermind. It just got triggered by accident. |
| 15:53.34 | Jaffa | zerojay: btw, my on-demand transcoding server's coming along well. Proof of concept is working, just making it more robust for a proper release (rather than pointing people at the source code in here the other night) |
| 15:56.30 | GeneralAntilles | Hehe, I sorted failed with that, Jaffa. |
| 15:56.39 | GeneralAntilles | My perl installation is absolutely broken on here. >_> |
| 16:02.38 | *** join/#maemo truaddict (n=truaddic@77.246.241.242) |
| 16:03.14 | Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: writing instructions is also on the TODO list for a proper release :) |
| 16:03.22 | *** join/#maemo zwnj (n=behnam@213.207.210.231) |
| 16:03.27 | truaddict | hi all |
| 16:03.33 | GeneralAntilles | Hehe, well, it's a much appreciated service. |
| 16:03.57 | GeneralAntilles | My one request: have the ability to save the transcoded files on the server so you can access them in the future without going through transcoding again. |
| 16:04.15 | Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: OK, I'll make that an option. |
| 16:04.40 | truaddict | please, can anyone tell is there DOSbox ported for nokia tablets? |
| 16:06.27 | Jaffa | pupnik or unique311 did it, I think. Screenshots on ITT. |
| 16:07.55 | truaddict | thanks |
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| 16:17.42 | *** part/#maemo truaddict (n=truaddic@77.246.241.242) |
| 16:20.49 | *** join/#maemo mirko (n=mirko@000-377-500.area4.spcsdns.net) |
| 16:21.07 | *** part/#maemo mirko (n=mirko@000-377-500.area4.spcsdns.net) |
| 16:21.58 | *** join/#maemo j_ck (n=mirko@000-377-500.area4.spcsdns.net) |
| 16:23.19 | j_ck | hi, just bought n800, put on some apps, and now I'm getting "Internal error. Application "xx" closed." with anything that access the disk. It's OS2007, any ideas? |
| 16:25.20 | wumpus | do you have the latest patch? I remember something about SDHC corruption fixes in the patch notes |
| 16:26.13 | j_ck | if it's not pre-installed - then no. could you direct me to a source and a manual and i can take it from there (i have my maemo for 24h now) |
| 16:26.37 | GeneralAntilles | flash firmware |
| 16:26.42 | GeneralAntilles | Guess not. |
| 16:26.53 | GeneralAntilles | What platform? |
| 16:27.06 | j_ck | os2007 is the best i can tell for now |
| 16:27.14 | GeneralAntilles | No, your computer. |
| 16:27.22 | j_ck | linux - gentoo |
| 16:27.42 | GeneralAntilles | http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HOWTO_FlashLatestNokiaImageWithLinux |
| 16:28.02 | j_ck | tnx |
| 16:28.27 | *** join/#maemo alterego (n=alterego@88-110-143-150.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 16:29.27 | *** join/#maemo febb (n=febb@189.135.59.221) |
| 16:31.11 | *** join/#maemo timelyx (n=timeless@a88-115-13-211.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 16:32.03 | *** join/#maemo timelyx (n=timeless@a88-115-13-211.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 16:32.17 | *** join/#maemo tko (n=tko@jumbo180.adsl.netsonic.fi) |
| 16:32.25 | zwnj | seems the N800 Java CDC zip file (i found the link on wiki.java.net) is not unzip-able with n800's unzip |
| 16:33.03 | zwnj | and trying zip -FF, i get a lot of corruption errors |
| 16:33.32 | zwnj | any suggestion? |
| 16:34.06 | GeneralAntilles | Corrupted download? |
| 16:34.12 | GeneralAntilles | Trip unzipping it on a real machine? |
| 16:35.01 | febb | hi all |
| 16:37.54 | zwnj | GeneralAntilles: i get same "End-of-central-directory signature not found." error on my ubuntu box too |
| 16:38.20 | zwnj | anyone have the md5sum of the file? |
| 16:38.22 | zwnj | http://thehereweb.googlepages.com/N800-java-cdc-fp-pmea-mr2-rev5444.zip |
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| 16:40.50 | *** join/#maemo Pinguozzz (n=pinguo@host-84-220-114-56.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 16:42.33 | zwnj | thanks GeneralAntilles |
| 16:43.39 | zwnj | yes, correpted download! |
| 16:49.12 | *** join/#maemo k-s[WORK] (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132) |
| 16:54.43 | *** join/#maemo railk (n=railk@77-56-76-193.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 16:58.37 | *** join/#maemo koen_ (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 17:02.14 | *** join/#maemo MSameer (n=user@cs181150042.pp.htv.fi) |
| 17:05.23 | dpryo | Does the nokia n800 have a input for microphone? Or is the layout same as on 770? |
| 17:06.40 | celesteh | the jack on the side is for headphones + mic |
| 17:07.15 | sciboy | That reminds me, does Maemo have a voice memo/recording app? |
| 17:07.29 | celesteh | yes |
| 17:07.32 | railk | isn't there a mic on top of the n800 too? or what is that? |
| 17:07.35 | dpryo | Maemo Recorder |
| 17:07.43 | celesteh | it's ok for voice |
| 17:07.50 | celesteh | but it has a really annoying noisegate on it |
| 17:07.56 | celesteh | that makes it terrible for field recordings |
| 17:08.21 | celesteh | it's extremely irritating. It might be possible to disable it. I haven't looked |
| 17:08.47 | *** part/#maemo railk (n=railk@77-56-76-193.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 17:08.50 | czr | maybe because intended voip-usage? |
| 17:09.45 | celesteh | i don't know if it's in hardware or software |
| 17:10.16 | celesteh | the setting is also annoying for voice, since the noise gets clipped when you trigger the gate, but then slowly creeps back up when you don't |
| 17:10.26 | celesteh | so silences get noisy |
| 17:10.50 | celesteh | which is too bad, since the n800 would be an extremely handy field recorder |
| 17:10.57 | celesteh | even if lo-fi |
| 17:10.59 | czr | yup. didn't even think of that |
| 17:11.36 | jani | there was some conversation on maemo devel about the schematics of the mic jack some weeks ago. |
| 17:13.07 | celesteh | the gate is almost certainly in software |
| 17:13.20 | DRoBeR | I'm having a trouble with a package while I'm trying to update it :S ncurse-bin. http://pastebin.com/d62775646 |
| 17:13.42 | DRoBeR | I'm using N800 OS 2007 :/ |
| 17:14.09 | *** join/#maemo Ginmanx (n=perreaul@c-24-147-166-232.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 17:14.09 | DRoBeR | Is anyone having this trouble too? :S |
| 17:15.38 | DRoBeR | ncurses-bin* |
| 17:21.11 | *** join/#maemo Pinguozzz (n=pinguo@host-84-220-114-56.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 17:34.51 | GeneralAntilles | DRoBeR: dpkg -r --force-remove-reinstreq ncurses-bin |
| 17:34.58 | GeneralAntilles | ncurses-bin collides with busybox |
| 17:35.01 | GeneralAntilles | You don't want it |
| 17:35.07 | GeneralAntilles | uninstall it and leave it gone. |
| 17:35.26 | GeneralAntilles | You just want ncurses-base |
| 17:41.17 | *** join/#maemo slomo_ (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 17:45.17 | DRoBeR | Really? |
| 17:45.27 | GeneralAntilles | Yes. ;) |
| 17:45.36 | *** join/#maemo ch4os_ (n=ch4os@unaffiliated/ch4os/x-059673) |
| 17:45.39 | DRoBeR | When I try to do that... it says the classic text: "Yes, do what I say, stupid machine!" |
| 17:45.45 | GeneralAntilles | I had the same problem a few months ago and shapr fixed it on his machine last night. |
| 17:45.58 | MSameer | am trying to discover the protocol used by metalayer-crawler to discover music on the network ? Any tips ? |
| 17:45.59 | GeneralAntilles | Doing it as root? |
| 17:46.10 | MSameer | thought avahi might be involved |
| 17:46.15 | MSameer | but seems not |
| 17:46.28 | GeneralAntilles | It's UPnP |
| 17:46.34 | MSameer | mmmmm |
| 17:46.36 | MSameer | cool |
| 17:46.38 | GeneralAntilles | Twonky, EyeConnect, etc. |
| 17:46.39 | MSameer | thanks |
| 17:47.10 | GeneralAntilles | Try ORB or TVersity for Windows |
| 17:48.05 | MSameer | or gmediaserver (-: |
| 17:48.13 | *** join/#maemo VimSi (n=vims@dslb-084-061-067-123.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 17:48.18 | GeneralAntilles | Hehe |
| 17:48.45 | MSameer | me too, just did an apt-get search |
| 17:48.46 | GeneralAntilles | There's an MPD client (Glurp) for music, too. |
| 17:48.52 | DRoBeR | Ok then. Thank you very much, GeneralAntilles. |
| 17:49.03 | DRoBeR | MSameer, apt-cache |
| 17:49.03 | *** join/#maemo patu (n=patu@dgy77.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 17:49.18 | MSameer | DRoBeR: aha yes |
| 17:49.22 | patu | hi |
| 17:50.31 | DRoBeR | Nice, now the same with bsdutils... I'm trying to do an apt-get dist-upgrade ;) |
| 17:51.17 | DRoBeR | Damned busybox... |
| 17:51.27 | patu | I have a question about N770 |
| 17:52.33 | GeneralAntilles | Uh, don't do that, DRoBeR. |
| 17:52.40 | GeneralAntilles | You'll break shit. |
| 17:52.50 | GeneralAntilles | Shoot, patu. ;) |
| 17:53.16 | patu | I'm dumb I think, or something's not ok |
| 17:53.26 | GeneralAntilles | So . . . what's the problem? |
| 17:53.36 | patu | I bought it today and set the lock code temporarily to the last numbers of my phone number |
| 17:53.42 | patu | now it wouldn't unlock |
| 17:53.47 | patu | can I flash it? |
| 17:53.51 | GeneralAntilles | Nope |
| 17:53.55 | patu | then what? |
| 17:53.57 | GeneralAntilles | Try 12345? |
| 17:54.00 | patu | yes |
| 17:54.02 | GeneralAntilles | Or 01234 |
| 17:54.11 | GeneralAntilles | Try the last numbers of your phone number? |
| 17:54.21 | patu | I did |
| 17:54.28 | GeneralAntilles | What did you set it to? |
| 17:54.34 | zwnj | i just install CDC on n800, but i don't get it. PhoneMEAdvanced doesn't include javax.mircoedition? |
| 17:54.39 | patu | precisely? |
| 17:54.44 | patu | 229986 |
| 17:54.51 | GeneralAntilles | and that doesn't work? |
| 17:54.54 | patu | no |
| 17:55.06 | GeneralAntilles | Maybe you had a typo? |
| 17:55.16 | patu | two times? |
| 17:55.18 | patu | maybe |
| 17:55.24 | GeneralAntilles | Hehe, it's happened to me. :D |
| 17:55.33 | patu | but since it's new I thought I could like hard-reset it? |
| 17:55.37 | GeneralAntilles | Otherwise, you gotta take it to Nokia. |
| 17:55.46 | GeneralAntilles | The lock-code is hardware level |
| 17:55.51 | GeneralAntilles | Reflashing wont get around it. |
| 17:56.23 | GeneralAntilles | You might try calling Nokia |
| 17:56.27 | GeneralAntilles | see what they can tell you. |
| 17:56.33 | GeneralAntilles | You in the US? |
| 17:56.37 | patu | nope |
| 17:56.46 | GeneralAntilles | Got any Nokia stores near you? |
| 17:56.47 | patu | if I can't unlock it I'll be forced to sell it |
| 17:56.52 | patu | and buy another one |
| 17:57.05 | patu | I do, but they don't sell those |
| 17:57.13 | GeneralAntilles | Try them |
| 17:57.27 | GeneralAntilles | In the US, there aren't any Nokia stores |
| 17:57.34 | GeneralAntilles | they're all cellular carrier stores |
| 17:57.46 | patu | we have nokia stores here |
| 17:57.47 | GeneralAntilles | so, unless you have a flagship store nearby, you have to ship it to Nokia |
| 17:57.51 | GeneralAntilles | But try those Nokia stores |
| 17:57.52 | patu | but they don't sell pda's |
| 17:58.01 | GeneralAntilles | if they can't do it in-store, they can tell you who to send it to. |
| 17:58.22 | zwnj | patu: IIRC lock-code should be exactly 5 digits |
| 17:58.40 | zwnj | patu: try 22998 or 29986 |
| 17:58.44 | patu | then why did it let me set it to 6? |
| 17:59.07 | zwnj | patu: also try 22986 |
| 18:00.25 | *** join/#maemo b0unc3 (n=b0unc3@217.202.165.191) |
| 18:01.46 | MSameer | yup, gmediaserver worked fine. cool... |
| 18:01.53 | patu | zwnj you're sure it can't be six? i'd take that into accouny trying to come up with something then |
| 18:02.20 | zwnj | patu: let me see |
| 18:02.43 | GeneralAntilles | MSameer: Jaffa is working on an on-the-fly on-demand transcoding solution for video, too. |
| 18:02.49 | GeneralAntilles | Should be pretty slick. |
| 18:03.13 | MSameer | that's impressive |
| 18:03.21 | DRoBeR | A good IRC client for N800? I have installed pidgin-irc but I want to connect it over a proxy and I need to send especial commands and it has not "/raw" cmd. |
| 18:03.24 | MSameer | was about to try watching a divx movie ;-) |
| 18:03.28 | GeneralAntilles | xchat |
| 18:03.42 | MSameer | DRoBeR: heard there's xchat |
| 18:03.43 | zwnj | patu: no, it's at least 5 digits |
| 18:04.00 | GeneralAntilles | xchat? |
| 18:04.00 | _Monkey | well, xchat is a gtk-based IRC client. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/maemo-xchat/ |
| 18:04.07 | zwnj | patu: try 7 digit seqs, i.e. 2299866, etc |
| 18:04.12 | DRoBeR | which mirror? |
| 18:04.17 | DRoBeR | Thanks, _Monkey :) |
| 18:04.18 | _Monkey | de rien DRoBeR |
| 18:04.34 | DRoBeR | Merci beaucoup then. |
| 18:04.34 | Fatal | DRoBeR: sure it isn't /quote ? |
| 18:05.02 | DRoBeR | hmmm, I didn't try it, Fatal... ^_^U |
| 18:05.03 | *** join/#maemo cigar (n=neil@038-175-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 18:08.41 | alterego | Wow, the N810 webpage actually works really well on the N800 |
| 18:09.14 | GeneralAntilles | One would hope |
| 18:09.16 | GeneralAntilles | same hardware |
| 18:09.28 | alterego | I kind of meant the flash stuff. |
| 18:09.53 | alterego | You know how nokia have those 3D images that you can move around to look at the devices. |
| 18:10.01 | alterego | It works pretty smoothly on the N800 |
| 18:10.01 | GeneralAntilles | Oh, right. |
| 18:10.03 | GeneralAntilles | Hehe |
| 18:10.18 | GeneralAntilles | Should be even more awesome with OS2008 |
| 18:10.25 | alterego | Indeed :) |
| 18:10.39 | GeneralAntilles | Now, if only for PowerVR. |
| 18:10.43 | alterego | I just hope I've got ruby-maemo 1.0 out the window by then,. |
| 18:10.48 | GeneralAntilles | I don't get why Nokia doesn't just pony up and get the drivers written. |
| 18:10.57 | alterego | The drivers are already written. |
| 18:11.06 | GeneralAntilles | Then why don't we have them. :\ |
| 18:11.11 | alterego | Costs money. |
| 18:11.19 | alterego | That would be my guess. |
| 18:11.21 | GeneralAntilles | Then PAY! |
| 18:11.36 | GeneralAntilles | It's such a huge value increase. |
| 18:11.50 | alterego | Well, I have a feeling we'll be seeing the PowerVR support pretty soon ;) |
| 18:11.54 | GeneralAntilles | cesman, I'm guessing the first update to OS2008 will have it. |
| 18:12.13 | GeneralAntilles | Hehe, is that a texrat-style feeling or a random-guess feeling? :P |
| 18:12.17 | cesman | I hope so... |
| 18:12.36 | alterego | Well, it's kind of a psuedo-guess :) |
| 18:12.45 | GeneralAntilles | Hehe |
| 18:12.48 | GeneralAntilles | Well, here's to hoping! |
| 18:12.49 | cesman | there is no valid excuse for no Ogg |
| 18:13.01 | GeneralAntilles | It's a managerial thing, would be my guess. |
| 18:13.14 | alterego | I got the impression from someone on the mailing list that it was planned but they weren't exactly if/when it would happen. |
| 18:13.28 | GeneralAntilles | People are bitching pretty hard about it, and I think it came up with Reggie/thoughtfix/Jonathan at the N810 launch |
| 18:13.29 | alterego | sure when/if it would happen .. |
| 18:13.52 | alterego | People bitch all the time. |
| 18:14.32 | GeneralAntilles | Really, the better question, is why the built-in Media Player doesn't have a better plugin interface. |
| 18:14.45 | cesman | :) |
| 18:14.49 | GeneralAntilles | Just put together a decent interface and let 3rd parties work for you. |
| 18:15.04 | pupnik | A lot of opengl stuff will require > 128MB ram and faster cpu, to run a straight port. |
| 18:15.05 | cesman | GeneralAntilles: either way |
| 18:15.28 | alterego | That depends on what you mean by a lot of OpenGL stuff. |
| 18:15.29 | pupnik | OpenGL is a bit of a pandora's box for the tablets |
| 18:15.58 | GeneralAntilles | Seems like it would be able to help out a lot of with Quake/Quake II |
| 18:16.12 | GeneralAntilles | Also, how hard would it be to accelerate the GUI? |
| 18:16.37 | alterego | Cairo can take advantage of OpenGL already |
| 18:16.38 | pupnik | Accelerate what? |
| 18:16.59 | pupnik | 1) alpha blending and 2) animations |
| 18:17.01 | alterego | Anyone want to start porting beryl? |
| 18:17.09 | alterego | :) |
| 18:17.35 | alterego | Personally, I'd much prefer a 3D GPS app :) |
| 18:17.50 | pupnik | there you go, great use |
| 18:18.03 | alterego | Well, that's on my to do list. |
| 18:18.23 | alterego | I'm almost a week behind my planned release of ruby-maemo >:( |
| 18:18.27 | pupnik | the mapper demoed on the 810 is 3d, but not with street signs |
| 18:18.50 | alterego | Well, it's kind of 3D. I meant full topographical detail. |
| 18:19.28 | alterego | The software with the N810 kind of just looks like looking at a map infront of you. It's flat, but it's flat in 3D ^_^ |
| 18:19.34 | GeneralAntilles | Google Earth. ;) |
| 18:19.44 | pupnik | anyway i think market pressure will be enough to force them to do OpenGL in 2008 on the OMAP3430 |
| 18:19.44 | alterego | GeneralAntilles, yeah, I mentioned that last night ;) |
| 18:19.49 | bmidgley | we need a driver for the 3d accel |
| 18:19.51 | GeneralAntilles | That you did. :D |
| 18:20.23 | *** join/#maemo booiiing (i=[booiiin@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x32459B0C) |
| 18:20.30 | alterego | There are already drivers for the PowerVR chip. |
| 18:20.40 | bmidgley | iphone glitz may be what forces it ironically |
| 18:20.48 | GeneralAntilles | I don't understand how the market pressure hasn't forced them to do it for the N800 already. >_> |
| 18:20.49 | bmidgley | the useless stuff i mean |
| 18:20.56 | alterego | The N95 takes advantage of it, though it's not Linux :) |
| 18:21.27 | bmidgley | they probably have headaches to make it OSS |
| 18:21.51 | alterego | I don't see why, the wifi driver isn't OSS either is the BT driver. |
| 18:22.14 | alterego | Nokia don't have any problems keeping things they want closed closed. That's why I don't understand why we don't have drivers :) |
| 18:22.23 | GeneralAntilles | We'd have drivers if there hadn't been a break with 2.4 -> 2.6 kernel |
| 18:22.36 | GeneralAntilles | They only have drivers for 2.4 |
| 18:22.43 | derf | That was forever ago. |
| 18:22.54 | alterego | Yeah, there are drivers for 2.6 now. |
| 18:23.02 | GeneralAntilles | Are there really? |
| 18:23.08 | alterego | You can download them in binary format. |
| 18:23.12 | DRoBeR | What about VPN client ipsec/strongswan/freewsan/openvpn? :) Is vpnc compatible with this? |
| 18:23.14 | DRoBeR | ^_^ |
| 18:23.16 | alterego | Unfortunately they're not the right ABI |
| 18:23.23 | GeneralAntilles | Why wont they work on the N800 now, then? |
| 18:23.31 | alterego | They're not armel |
| 18:23.44 | alterego | I believe they're the wrong endian too. |
| 18:24.02 | zwnj | anyone tried to add MIDP to n800's CDC? |
| 18:24.41 | patu | god, I have it -_- |
| 18:24.49 | patu | I was seriously afraid there for a while |
| 18:24.56 | GeneralAntilles | Now, who's going to get 500MHz for us? http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=84783#post84783 |
| 18:25.05 | zwnj | patu: what was the code? |
| 18:25.10 | GeneralAntilles | Hehe |
| 18:25.11 | patu | 229985 -_- |
| 18:25.22 | GeneralAntilles | Now, patu, change it to something you'll be sure to remember |
| 18:25.23 | patu | what I thought - 1 |
| 18:25.24 | zwnj | lol |
| 18:25.32 | patu | yeah, the problem is |
| 18:25.39 | patu | I was using Palm OS pda's for years |
| 18:25.47 | patu | and they accept four digits codes -_- |
| 18:26.30 | *** join/#maemo truls (n=kerfue@sakura.chem.ntnu.no) |
| 18:26.53 | *** join/#maemo pupnik_ (n=pupnik@dslb-088-068-113-010.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 18:27.19 | truls | is it usual for programs to hang when opening a file dialog box in a bora armel target in scratchbox? |
| 18:27.31 | truls | trying to pinpoint the problem, but... |
| 18:27.36 | Jaffa | no |
| 18:27.44 | Jaffa | dodgy NFS mounts or something? |
| 18:27.52 | truls | no |
| 18:28.23 | zwnj | https://phoneme.dev.java.net/phone_me_faq.html#cdc2 says i should have MIDP, but there's no javax.microedition package on my installation. ? |
| 18:28.33 | truls | stracing the qemu didn't reveal much either... |
| 18:28.46 | truls | but something hangs when it tries to go through the filesystem |
| 18:28.58 | truls | or rather crashes |
| 18:29.56 | patu | I'll go and play now |
| 18:29.57 | patu | bye |
| 18:36.04 | truls | or rather segfaults |
| 18:36.08 | truls | evil |
| 18:37.10 | *** join/#maemo Thanatermesis (n=Enlighte@unaffiliated/thanatermesis) |
| 18:39.45 | *** join/#maemo shapr (i=shae@c-76-18-120-222.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 18:43.16 | *** join/#maemo pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 18:45.08 | *** join/#maemo simon_ (n=simon@w208.wist.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 18:46.36 | alterego | :) |
| 18:46.42 | alterego | It's dinner time now :P |
| 18:47.20 | alterego | truls, qemu is somewhat unreliable. If it works fine in X86 then you might aswell just try it on device. |
| 18:47.56 | truls | alterego: ah, ok, i heard it was somewhat unreliable, but didn't think it was unusable :) |
| 18:48.11 | truls | i guess it's not for most though |
| 18:48.42 | truls | just find it strange as i have a pretty fresh install (not much crud in the scratchbox yet), and it still fails on pretty basic stuff |
| 18:48.48 | alterego | Well, I used to use it and it worked fine. But I keep getting segfaults from it under chinook :/ |
| 18:49.02 | alterego | Yeah, I've had the same. |
| 18:49.21 | alterego | It used to work fine for me. But it's been terrible recently. |
| 18:49.35 | alterego | Even after I completely blitzed->reinstalled everything. |
| 18:49.38 | truls | just for chinook targets? |
| 18:49.46 | truls | or recently also for bore? |
| 18:49.53 | alterego | Both now. |
| 18:49.58 | alterego | It used to only be chinook. |
| 18:49.59 | truls | bora |
| 18:50.12 | truls | so might be new version of scratchbox? |
| 18:50.18 | alterego | It's possible. |
| 18:50.30 | alterego | Or the version of qemu |
| 18:50.36 | truls | yeah |
| 18:50.39 | alterego | What version are you using? I haven't tried the cvs. |
| 18:51.13 | truls | 0.8.2+dfsg-0ubuntu1 i assume |
| 18:51.29 | truls | unless scratchbox has one internally |
| 18:51.33 | alterego | Well, I'm using 0.8.2 but not ubuntu ;) |
| 18:52.03 | truls | ah, it does |
| 18:53.23 | truls | hm, scratchbox-devkit-cputransp is version 1.03 |
| 18:53.26 | truls | 1.0.3 |
| 18:53.53 | truls | qemu-arm -> qemu-arm-0.7.0-sb2 |
| 18:54.49 | truls | no, actually it uses qemu-arm-0.8.2-sb2 |
| 18:55.06 | truls | the symlink above doesn't matter |
| 18:56.26 | czr | chinook uses a more recent glibc which has instructions that don't work in qemu (armel) |
| 18:56.32 | czr | just fyi. |
| 18:57.03 | czr | it doesn't always trip though. simple things might work |
| 18:57.25 | czr | gcc/binutils work since they're not run using qemu anyway |
| 19:04.44 | timelyx | flash tends to be a no go w/ qemu |
| 19:06.24 | alterego | czr, yeah, That's probably it :) |
| 19:08.22 | kaltsi | qemu is only supposed to be used to compile/build stuff, running applications under qemu may or may not work and it's not officially supported in the maemo environment |
| 19:09.12 | alterego | But we don't need qemu to compile or build stuff. |
| 19:09.22 | czr | some people do. |
| 19:09.29 | czr | people who use python to build stuff for example. |
| 19:09.37 | alterego | Yeah, I guess some tools need to be compiled first. |
| 19:09.37 | czr | python doesn't work in qemu/armel with chinook |
| 19:09.41 | kaltsi | configure scripts do execute a simple a.out thingy to find out thingies (very techincal) :) |
| 19:10.14 | alterego | Oh yeah, the tests. |
| 19:10.23 | kaltsi | some stuff does get run under qemu when building packages |
| 19:10.44 | alterego | Yes, I know. I was just being a bit short sighted there ;) |
| 19:10.51 | kaltsi | you can take a look at /tmp/cputransp_something to see what was run under qemu |
| 19:14.44 | *** join/#maemo lsobral (n=sobral@200.184.118.132) |
| 19:16.34 | truls | hm, i've been trying to avoid asking this, as it's such a newbie-question, but i could find no info in the docs/web: when entering text in widgets in the xserver used by scratchbox, why doesn't enter go to the next line? |
| 19:18.21 | GeneralAntilles | It's reserved for fullscreen keyboard transition, I think. |
| 19:19.00 | *** join/#maemo dolske (n=dolske@firefox/developer/dolske) |
| 19:21.30 | pupnik | truls, try the keypad enter key |
| 19:22.43 | truls | pupnik: thanks, that worked beautifully |
| 19:22.55 | truls | ctrl-j worked some times, but didn't now |
| 19:23.46 | truls | pupnik: is "why?" a silly question to ask? (about why numpad enter works, and not "regular" enter) |
| 19:31.49 | GeneralAntilles | Uh, because it's reserved for calling up the fullscreen keyboard. >_> |
| 19:33.01 | truls | hm, so why doesnt the fullscreen keyboard appear when i press regular enter? |
| 19:33.48 | GeneralAntilles | Probably because it's scratchbox. |
| 19:34.07 | truls | ok |
| 19:34.28 | GeneralAntilles | Yummy |
| 19:34.34 | *** join/#maemo lopz (n=gentoo-D@unaffiliated/lopz) |
| 19:34.57 | lopz | re |
| 19:35.55 | pupnik | i've figured out what imagonnado with large game packages |
| 19:36.00 | *** join/#maemo lmoura (n=lmoura@189.13.179.30) |
| 19:36.01 | pupnik | *game data |
| 19:36.28 | pupnik | still use .debs for them, but have the application installer wget and unpack them onto mmc |
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| 19:37.37 | pupnik | that way if someone has tons of space and they want to install the data .deb the normal way - they still can |
| 19:37.57 | GeneralAntilles | Nice, pupnik. |
| 19:38.25 | pupnik | putzing with it right now |
| 19:38.31 | timelyx | truls: ime there are two enters, and the one near shift does trigger the vkb |
| 19:38.42 | timelyx | at least, it's funny watching devs here fight scratchbox |
| 19:39.11 | truls | heh |
| 19:39.21 | timelyx | s/vkb/fkb/ |
| 19:39.22 | timelyx | sorry |
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| 19:40.58 | czr | timelyx, it's the devs vs scratchbox. chinook making stuff much more interesting though :-) |
| 19:41.27 | timelyx | czr: i want sb2 to win |
| 19:41.29 | GeneralAntilles | Haha |
| 19:41.34 | timelyx | let sb0.*/sb1 die |
| 19:41.43 | czr | let? that's.. visual basic! |
| 19:41.49 | czr | that's evil. although on par with sbox. |
| 19:42.22 | czr | someone should rewrite sbox in VB though. that would really show the devs who's the master. |
| 19:42.48 | derf | LET has a history that far precedes VB. |
| 19:43.13 | czr | hmm. basics yes. was it used in other languages as well? |
| 19:43.14 | timelyx | actually, vb doesn't really need let |
| 19:43.23 | timelyx | let's been optional since what, qbasic? |
| 19:43.51 | *** join/#maemo zpol (n=gentoo-D@unaffiliated/lopz) |
| 19:45.33 | cigar | is it possible to have a non hildon app visible in the taskbar ? |
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| 19:51.05 | cigar | I am trying to make xfe work on my n800. It does show up but when minimized I found no easy way to get it visible again. What can I do? |
| 19:51.43 | Thanatermesis | what "word" applications exists ? my GF needs to opend and edit .doc files for the university |
| 19:52.01 | *** join/#maemo alterego (n=alterego@88-110-143-150.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 19:52.01 | truls | Thanatermesis: google document editor? |
| 19:52.24 | truls | or rather google docs as it's called |
| 19:52.32 | Thanatermesis | hu ? i can open .rtf, .doc etc.. with google editor ? |
| 19:52.38 | truls | yes |
| 19:52.45 | Thanatermesis | google is crazy lol |
| 19:52.53 | truls | docs.google.com |
| 19:53.00 | Thanatermesis | well but, not exists any app builded in any repo for that ? aparently abiword is not on the repos |
| 19:53.43 | alterego | Yeah, abiwork really needs to be ported to the new OS |
| 19:53.49 | alterego | ~abiword |
| 19:53.49 | infobot | Fully featured word processor. URL: http://www.abisource.com/ |
| 19:53.51 | alterego | And gnumeric |
| 19:53.53 | _Monkey | gnumeric is the gnu spreadsheet http://www.maemo.org.br/platform/apt/pool/user/g/gnumeric/ |
| 19:54.37 | renatofilho | alterego, I finish the port of abiwor now to new OS :D |
| 19:54.50 | alterego | :) |
| 19:54.54 | renatofilho | I will commit this today |
| 19:54.54 | alterego | Cool., |
| 19:54.59 | celesteh | awesome! |
| 19:55.00 | alterego | What about 2007? |
| 19:55.10 | Thanatermesis | gnumeric is |
| 19:55.20 | alterego | gnumeric is out of date. |
| 19:55.27 | Thanatermesis | renatofilho, do you have ported abiword to bora ? |
| 19:56.07 | renatofilho | I think entrunko already have the abiword packages to bora |
| 19:56.29 | Thanatermesis | how i can have a "build system" ready to be used ? (any qemu image?), i want to make ports and packages and stuffs but i don't want to lost time making that system, i have a lot of things to do |
| 19:57.27 | Jaffa | Thanatermesis: there are qemu and VMware images with scratchbox and the dev environment. Then <plug> http://mud-builder.garage.maemo.org </plug> makes ports & packaging easier (IMNSHO) |
| 19:57.40 | deejoe | Jaffa: cool |
| 19:59.40 | *** join/#maemo bign00b (n=gf@p54A56B16.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:01.05 | juh0 | Thanatermesis: http://setanta.wordpress.com/2007/10/15/maemo-sdk-appliance-release-03/ |
| 20:01.15 | Thanatermesis | renatofilho, where is the entrunko repo ? i don't found it on http://maemo.org/community/wiki/applicationrepositories/ we can have other repo's available apart of the ones of that list ? |
| 20:02.04 | Thanatermesis | thanks Jaffa, btw, about vmware... from my knowledgements vmware can't emulate ARM processors, qemu yes, how can be used on vmware then ? |
| 20:02.26 | alterego | Thanatermesis, the SDK runs in vmware player. |
| 20:02.36 | alterego | The SDK has qemu |
| 20:02.42 | Jaffa | what he said ;) |
| 20:03.42 | Thanatermesis | what ? run a virtual machine that runs a qemu ? |
| 20:03.54 | alterego | Yes |
| 20:03.56 | Jaffa | Yep |
| 20:04.02 | Thanatermesis | heh, sounds funny :) |
| 20:04.05 | Thanatermesis | ok, let me download it |
| 20:04.20 | *** join/#maemo pipomolo42 (n=alex@ALille-152-1-61-38.w83-198.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 20:05.07 | Thanatermesis | btw, i can simply "apt-get source" packages from debian repo sources and make the ports ? |
| 20:05.53 | Jaffa | Thanatermesis: theoretically, but there are a few other bits and bobs - which is why I started mud-builder to make the process easier |
| 20:06.40 | Thanatermesis | interesting, any link ? |
| 20:06.47 | juh0 | http://www.gronmayer.com/n800/repos/index.php?lang=en Repositories for N800 and N770 Internet Tablet |
| 20:06.54 | Jaffa | see above, http://mud-builder.garage.maemo.org/ |
| 20:07.13 | *** join/#maemo Quinlan^ (n=quinlan@c-24-21-48-161.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 20:07.46 | Thanatermesis | ok, thx |
| 20:08.09 | *** join/#maemo Ginmanx (n=perreaul@c-24-147-226-127.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 20:16.32 | *** join/#maemo jacques (n=jacques@nslu2-linux/jacques) |
| 20:16.33 | renatofilho | Thanatermesis, I don't know and he is off now :( |
| 20:20.40 | alterego | Anyone have a use for setting a gmain context when initializing osso? |
| 20:20.41 | alterego | If it's useful I'll add it .. |
| 20:21.32 | *** join/#maemo alterego (n=alterego@88-110-143-150.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 20:22.03 | Jiten | http://jkaartinen.dyndns.org/~blight/mnemosyne-maemo.png the first version that's actually useful :) Still missing functionality for import/export/editing/adding and such. |
| 20:22.31 | alterego | What is it? |
| 20:22.37 | Jiten | flashcard program |
| 20:23.18 | Jiten | quite optimally decides when to ask them again |
| 20:23.26 | alterego | Ah |
| 20:23.35 | alterego | Cool. |
| 20:23.51 | Jiten | There was one with less optimal mechanism and an UI I couldn't figure out so I started to port this one |
| 20:24.31 | Jiten | original version is done with qt so it's taken me 3 days so far to get it to this point. |
| 20:28.11 | alterego | Heh |
| 20:28.19 | *** join/#maemo javamaniac (n=gerardo@2001:5c0:914f:0:0:0:0:1) |
| 20:28.52 | Thanatermesis | renatofilho, ok, i have installed abiword... but aparently don't opens correctly the .doc of my GF, idk, maybe is a crappy MS incompatibility thing, i need to try it on this computer, when i have time, brb |
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| 20:58.54 | timely_changelog | czr: ping |
| 20:59.00 | timely_changelog | do you have week 42 handy? |
| 20:59.14 | timely_changelog | i have week 41 and an interesting dailog appeared, i want to know if we'r shipping w/ it :) |
| 20:59.39 | czr | took me a while to realize what you meant by w42, let me check :-) |
| 20:59.46 | czr | (was looking at the calendar for a while ;-) |
| 20:59.50 | timely_changelog | heh |
| 21:00.08 | alterego | Hahah |
| 21:00.12 | czr | w38 |
| 21:00.28 | suihkulokki | "teh form you are about to send may be insecurely sent over interweb" |
| 21:00.42 | alterego | maybe ? |
| 21:03.04 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (n=tso@192.84-49-130.nextgentel.com) |
| 21:03.44 | timely_changelog | ok, anyone here have week 42? :) |
| 21:03.46 | *** join/#maemo cambba (n=cambba@82-128-202-239-Korvensuora-TR1.suomi.net) |
| 21:04.49 | *** join/#maemo eXeonical (n=exeonica@82-128-216-202-Karjasilta-TR1.suomi.net) |
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| 21:05.01 | czr | heh |
| 21:05.10 | timely_changelog | one per person on oaverage |
| 21:05.12 | alterego | Well, libosso is almost finished, and chinook ready. |
| 21:05.21 | sp3000 | speaking of which |
| 21:05.24 | sp3000 | timely_changelog: I don't really see centring in nofit w/o script or pos:fixed; the former jumps a bit and the latter has overflow issues |
| 21:05.25 | alterego | libalarm is also almost ready. |
| 21:05.39 | timely_changelog | sp3000: hrm |
| 21:05.47 | timely_changelog | sp3000: do you happen to have 41 or later? |
| 21:06.04 | timely_changelog | i'm trying to verify thatt we're really really stupid |
| 21:06.17 | sp3000 | I'm still w26 :) |
| 21:06.22 | czr | hey, you should've just ask me that question |
| 21:06.26 | timely_changelog | bah |
| 21:06.29 | czr | I know the answer to that :-) |
| 21:06.32 | alterego | Heh |
| 21:06.36 | timely_changelog | czr: i'm pretty sure i do too :) |
| 21:06.40 | czr | :-) |
| 21:07.04 | alterego | Geez, can you guys stop distracting me. :) I've got work to do dagnamit. |
| 21:07.16 | czr | hmm. me too. |
| 21:08.04 | timely_changelog | sp3000: anyway |
| 21:08.13 | timely_changelog | visit me monday morning |
| 21:08.37 | *** join/#maemo _Monkey (n=_Monkey@dsl-217-155-26-150.zen.co.uk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 21:08.37 | sp3000 | for some value of morning |
| 21:08.43 | *** join/#maemo Sho_ (n=EHS1@kde/hein) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 21:08.46 | *** join/#maemo mat (n=mat@igoan/mat) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 21:09.32 | timely_changelog | sp3000: see moznet/query |
| 21:12.09 | timely_changelog | sp3000: you saw the draft for 9/, right? |
| 21:12.50 | sp3000 | yep ...it was still quite changeloggy |
| 21:13.17 | *** join/#maemo kala (i=kala@tux.linux.ee) |
| 21:14.09 | timely_changelog | http://swift/~timeless/blog/news/news.html <- art now above fold :) |
| 21:14.28 | *** join/#maemo pickl1 (n=pat@host-84-9-200-16.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 21:14.43 | czr | swift? |
| 21:15.19 | *** join/#maemo cambba (n=cambba@82-128-202-239-Korvensuora-TR1.suomi.net) |
| 21:15.31 | pickl1 | Does anyone have a mirror for the chinook vmware image - http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/ gives a 403 |
| 21:18.11 | timely_changelog | it's my computer at work :) |
| 21:18.23 | timely_changelog | url is intenionally private :) |
| 21:18.47 | timely_changelog | that url is equivalent to http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/news.html |
| 21:19.24 | pickl1 | its linked from forum nokia as the official download |
| 21:20.14 | timely_changelog | if it's in svn, you can try http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/source/maemovmware/www/ |
| 21:20.49 | timely_changelog | anyway, that has all the svn content for www as of the last time i svn updated |
| 21:20.58 | timely_changelog | you can figure out that detail by tacking on /.svn/ |
| 21:21.17 | *** join/#maemo MSameer (n=user@cs181150042.pp.htv.fi) |
| 21:21.44 | timely_changelog | http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/source/maemovmware/www/index.html |
| 21:21.48 | timely_changelog | is the root page |
| 21:22.32 | pickl1 | i'm confused now |
| 21:22.37 | czr | timely_changelog, figured that much. just thought that maybe it was a mistake or smt :-) |
| 21:22.44 | timely_changelog | oh, if you need the vm bit, it looks like |
| 21:22.53 | timely_changelog | czr: nah, "i don't make mistakes" ;-) |
| 21:23.03 | timely_changelog | (i do, of course) |
| 21:23.16 | timely_changelog | ... you should try the torrent |
| 21:23.18 | czr | you call them "features"? :-) |
| 21:23.26 | czr | or just "testing"? |
| 21:23.44 | timely_changelog | alpha work |
| 21:24.04 | pickl1 | torrent is going at 2kB/s with 3 peers and 0 seeds :( |
| 21:24.11 | timely_changelog | heh |
| 21:24.26 | czr | exactly the reason why I build my own vmware images :-) |
| 21:24.36 | czr | there's been talk about the images on -devel for some days now |
| 21:24.47 | timely_changelog | heh |
| 21:24.59 | czr | plus my images rule. that's the other reason. |
| 21:25.03 | timely_changelog | well, i should be able to host a copy on timeless.justdave.net |
| 21:25.12 | timely_changelog | if someone gives me a url that isn't dead :) |
| 21:25.30 | pickl1 | aye, there's the rub |
| 21:25.45 | czr | I'd give you mine, but I can't redistribute (the image has nokia "binaries") |
| 21:25.57 | timely_changelog | heh |
| 21:26.01 | pickl1 | i'd look after them :) |
| 21:26.06 | *** join/#maemo doublec (n=doublec@203-97-173-6.cable.telstraclear.net) |
| 21:26.12 | timely_changelog | hi doublec |
| 21:26.17 | czr | pickl1 :-) |
| 21:26.30 | czr | pickl1, just write to -devel, maybe "someone" will see that it's really a problem |
| 21:26.33 | doublec | hi timely_changelog |
| 21:26.34 | czr | and do something about it |
| 21:26.53 | pickl1 | think i'll just throw scratchbox on my other machine and have a play |
| 21:27.19 | pickl1 | might as well do things properly |
| 21:27.20 | czr | or you could install your own vmware image |
| 21:27.38 | timely_changelog | pickl1: how about http://www.maemo.org.br/platform/download/maemo-sdk-qemu.tar.bz2 |
| 21:27.42 | pickl1 | good point |
| 21:27.54 | alterego | :) |
| 21:28.17 | *** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com) |
| 21:28.18 | pickl1 | is that not the bora release? |
| 21:28.29 | timely_changelog | http://www.maemo.org.br/platform/download/ |
| 21:28.46 | timely_changelog | just use that link :) |
| 21:29.24 | timely_changelog | the directory is browsable |
| 21:29.24 | timely_changelog | and the files seem readable |
| 21:29.28 | timely_changelog | you need to think more like a hacker |
| 21:29.50 | pickl1 | heh |
| 21:31.29 | *** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com) |
| 21:34.37 | pickl1 | downloading now, cheers for your help all |
| 21:36.36 | *** part/#maemo pickl1 (n=pat@host-84-9-200-16.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 21:49.08 | timely_changelog | some of these release notes are scary |
| 21:51.00 | alterego | Well, it is almost halloween. |
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| 21:52.36 | timely_changelog | halloween used to mean DST |
| 21:52.40 | timely_changelog | or !DST |
| 21:53.38 | alterego | That's funny, I didn't know the pagans had daylight saving time. |
| 21:53.55 | alterego | Woo! |
| 21:53.59 | alterego | Another item of the todo list :) |
| 21:54.34 | alterego | Would you say having the ability to define the GMain context in calls to OSSO.initialize is important? |
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| 21:56.37 | *** join/#maemo jacques (n=jacques@nslu2-linux/jacques) |
| 21:57.41 | timely_changelog | no |
| 21:57.52 | timely_changelog | i'd say deleting glib is important |
| 21:57.53 | thejapanesegeek | Are there settings that are not changed a firmware flash? |
| 21:57.55 | timely_changelog | it's a POS |
| 21:58.22 | timely_changelog | thejapanesegeek: the WiFi and BT ideas |
| 21:58.27 | timely_changelog | s/ideas/IDs/ |
| 21:58.47 | thejapanesegeek | you mean the mac addresses? |
| 21:58.51 | timely_changelog | yes |
| 21:58.55 | thejapanesegeek | How about folder structures? |
| 21:59.06 | timely_changelog | good bye :) |
| 21:59.13 | alterego | thejapanesegeek, if they're in the flash it get's completely rewritten. |
| 21:59.14 | timely_changelog | the entire file system is replaed |
| 21:59.19 | timely_changelog | unless it's on a memory card |
| 21:59.24 | thejapanesegeek | Hmm... |
| 21:59.49 | thejapanesegeek | I'm having some trouble getting my Extras folder back. |
| 22:00.15 | thejapanesegeek | I deleted it, and it won't come back, even after several firmware flashes. |
| 22:00.32 | timely_changelog | err, you could create it .. |
| 22:00.40 | timely_changelog | but it'll come back if you add something that wants to live there |
| 22:00.50 | *** join/#maemo guardian_ (n=Guardian@ANantes-252-1-43-218.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 22:00.53 | thejapanesegeek | no, I can't. |
| 22:01.00 | thejapanesegeek | It claims the filename is already in use. |
| 22:01.05 | timely_changelog | heh |
| 22:01.16 | thejapanesegeek | I filed the bug: |
| 22:01.16 | thejapanesegeek | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2144 |
| 22:01.38 | thejapanesegeek | I was hoping that a firmware flash would fix the issue. |
| 22:01.42 | thejapanesegeek | It didn't. |
| 22:01.51 | thejapanesegeek | I can't install any apps now. |
| 22:01.56 | alterego | O_o |
| 22:01.58 | timely_changelog | nice |
| 22:02.23 | alterego | I've deleted that folder loads of times and never had any issues .. |
| 22:02.48 | thejapanesegeek | I don't understand it. |
| 22:02.56 | timely_changelog | strace time.. |
| 22:03.05 | thejapanesegeek | The firmware flash should refresh everything, right? |
| 22:03.12 | alterego | Yes |
| 22:03.14 | timely_changelog | do you restore your backup? |
| 22:03.18 | thejapanesegeek | no. |
| 22:03.26 | alterego | backup? :P |
| 22:03.34 | timely_changelog | ... |
| 22:04.05 | timely_changelog | alterego: backup: a write once - read never medium designed to wrongfully raise hopes |
| 22:04.20 | alterego | :) |
| 22:04.36 | db48x | heh |
| 22:06.56 | thejapanesegeek | could this have something to do with the fact that I have been installing debs manually as oppesed to via the internet? |
| 22:07.16 | timely_changelog | internet? |
| 22:07.26 | timely_changelog | where's application manager in this picture? |
| 22:07.34 | alterego | You've been using dpkg? |
| 22:07.44 | alterego | Well, that would be why then .. |
| 22:08.25 | timely_changelog | resolved: invalid |
| 22:08.55 | thejapanesegeek | any ideas? |
| 22:09.24 | alterego | thejapanesegeek, how are you installing the package? Are you using the application installer? Or are you doing it via the console? |
| 22:11.46 | *** join/#maemo teegijee (i=3f5697f6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-e252fce4758c988b) |
| 22:14.18 | GeneralAntilles | Ha |
| 22:14.21 | GeneralAntilles | Just not helping some people. |
| 22:14.26 | GeneralAntilles | *no |
| 22:15.25 | alterego | :) |
| 22:15.59 | *** join/#maemo florian (n=fuchs@f048035216.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 22:16.01 | *** join/#maemo thejapanesegeek (i=3f5697f6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-93a6f40115936767) |
| 22:16.36 | thejapanesegeek | sorry. cgi-irc is a terrible client. |
| 22:16.42 | alterego | Heh |
| 22:16.49 | zerojay | The N810 manual mentions an icon in the status area for bluetooth headsets. :) |
| 22:16.50 | thejapanesegeek | but it's the only one that gets through my firewall. |
| 22:17.19 | *** join/#maemo jeremyb (n=jeremy@unaffiliated/jeremyb) |
| 22:17.20 | alterego | zerojay, indeed. If you look at the accessories you'll see the nokia one. |
| 22:17.27 | jeremyb | wow, ya'll are big |
| 22:17.33 | timely_changelog | zerojay: i seem to recall that was in the n800 |
| 22:17.43 | GeneralAntilles | thoughtfix had one working when he did his demo. |
| 22:18.02 | zerojay | Did it work well? I guess it would be time to get myself a headset then. |
| 22:19.05 | zerojay | Well, actually I just want bluetooth headphones. |
| 22:19.18 | GeneralAntilles | Ah, not AD2P yet |
| 22:19.29 | thejapanesegeek | altergo: in response to your question, I have been using app manager, but I've been using the "install from file" option. |
| 22:19.31 | alterego | There's a manual? |
| 22:19.40 | zerojay | I thought they were one and the same? |
| 22:19.47 | alterego | thejapanesegeek, right |
| 22:19.50 | zerojay | alterego: FCC confidentiality is up. |
| 22:20.14 | thejapanesegeek | is that the problem? |
| 22:20.25 | alterego | No, it shouldn't be. |
| 22:21.19 | thejapanesegeek | Is it possibly just bad packages? I've tried two, but neither showed up |
| 22:21.24 | timely_changelog | alterego: docs for the produc go to bed fairly early |
| 22:21.33 | timely_changelog | getting things changed for them is amazingly painful |
| 22:21.33 | alterego | Yeah, I know. |
| 22:21.36 | timely_changelog | since they go to printers |
| 22:21.37 | alterego | I've just not seen it. |
| 22:21.41 | timely_changelog | i've rtied, i generally fail |
| 22:22.04 | alterego | Hmm, the N810 takes a different battery to the N800 |
| 22:22.05 | timely_changelog | i have it on my devices and internal xrefs, presumably anyone who got a device for press got one |
| 22:22.16 | timely_changelog | alterego: it takes a battery compatible w/ the e61i |
| 22:22.24 | timely_changelog | which is nice, since that's the phone i have :) |
| 22:22.28 | alterego | :P |
| 22:22.44 | jeremyb | hehe, timely |
| 22:22.45 | timely_changelog | and if you think people don't pick phones based on devices... |
| 22:22.52 | alterego | Heh |
| 22:22.57 | timely_changelog | when they started working on the 770 they didn't have chargers for them |
| 22:23.09 | timely_changelog | so they provided people 9500s to use for charging the batteries |
| 22:23.17 | alterego | Haha |
| 22:23.18 | GeneralAntilles | Haha |
| 22:23.26 | zerojay | Yeah, I have to do that sometimes at work too. |
| 22:23.38 | zerojay | Pop the battery into another phone and charge it that way. |
| 22:23.53 | timely_changelog | i took my 770 + 3 n800s on my vacation |
| 22:23.57 | timely_changelog | + chargers for each |
| 22:24.00 | alterego | My phone is a POS |
| 22:24.01 | timely_changelog | + 2 extra batteries |
| 22:24.12 | timely_changelog | mostly just o charge the bateries for 2 n800s |
| 22:24.12 | alterego | But I'm too tight to buy a new one :) |
| 22:24.40 | timely_changelog | i only had 1 device to charge my 3 batteries for my e61i whichi made it a problem when i ran through my batteries :( |
| 22:25.25 | timely_changelog | next time i travel, i'll just take spare n810s :) |
| 22:25.39 | alterego | Do you buy them all? |
| 22:25.47 | alterego | Seems a little extravagant :P |
| 22:26.13 | timely_changelog | so far nokia has given me a 770, a 9300i, an n800, an e61i and has promised an n81-8g and an n810 |
| 22:26.27 | zerojay | I'm sure they toss N95's around like newspapers. |
| 22:26.30 | timely_changelog | the n800s i travelled w/ were requisitioned |
| 22:26.47 | timely_changelog | he n81s are being tossed around like newspapers |
| 22:27.17 | alterego | I've not had a decent phone since my 7650 :) |
| 22:27.22 | zerojay | LOL |
| 22:27.27 | alterego | I've just been buying crappy disposable ones. |
| 22:27.27 | zerojay | Dude, are you serious? |
| 22:27.30 | alterego | Yup. |
| 22:27.35 | zerojay | 7650 is horrible. |
| 22:27.42 | alterego | It's in pieces unfortunately. |
| 22:27.55 | zerojay | Its JVM has a massive memory leak whenever GetResourceAsStream is used. |
| 22:27.57 | alterego | I did a bit of work for Symbian. |
| 22:28.21 | alterego | Hey, at the time that phone was the coolest thing out there :P |
| 22:28.49 | zerojay | I was stuck testing it's brother, the 3650 (same problem) for almost a month straight. |
| 22:28.57 | zerojay | Had to reboot it every 15 minutes. :/ |
| 22:29.01 | alterego | Heh |
| 22:29.32 | alterego | Right now I'm using my sisters old phone. Some crappy sony ericcson. |
| 22:29.46 | alterego | The VGA camera lens has come off. |
| 22:29.49 | zerojay | Gameloft came to us and told us to just give up... there's no way to work around it. |
| 22:29.53 | alterego | As well as a small plastic panel at the top. |
| 22:30.19 | alterego | It's also got some very suspect signal connection habits and charging is a bit awkward too. |
| 22:30.39 | *** join/#maemo |tbb| (n=tb@p5081519C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:30.59 | zerojay | Most of the SE's are decent. |
| 22:31.07 | alterego | This is very old. |
| 22:31.22 | alterego | Old and cheap by the looks of it. |
| 22:31.28 | zerojay | Stay away from the Samsung A650 unless you enjoy getting a static shock every time you touch it while it's charging. |
| 22:31.35 | alterego | Hahah |
| 22:31.39 | alterego | Nice! |
| 22:31.40 | db48x | oohh, that sounds fun |
| 22:32.03 | alterego | To be honest, I really don't like phones. |
| 22:32.10 | alterego | I only have one because I _need_ it .. |
| 22:32.11 | db48x | neither do I |
| 22:32.20 | zerojay | I hate phones. |
| 22:32.20 | db48x | I want a real wearable computer |
| 22:32.33 | zerojay | I hated them before, I hate them now after working with them for two years straight. |
| 22:32.39 | alterego | :) |
| 22:32.42 | zerojay | db48x: Yeah, same here. |
| 22:32.53 | alterego | It's like, (ring ring) oh, it's my phone. |
| 22:33.10 | db48x | heh |
| 22:33.18 | zerojay | Heh... some of the testers have found some of the funniest ringtones. |
| 22:33.36 | zerojay | Some of those on the Disco Phone (Nokia 3220) are hilariously funny. |
| 22:33.38 | alterego | If they didn't ring I think I'd like them more :) |
| 22:34.14 | alterego | So, what's with libalarm? |
| 22:34.22 | alterego | Where are the headers for all the gobjects? |
| 22:36.01 | *** join/#maemo ebel (n=rory@78.16.44.128) |
| 22:36.31 | alterego | This is silly, how can you have API documentation for something that doesn't even exist?! |
| 22:38.15 | zerojay | Imagination is a wonderful thing. |
| 22:38.29 | alterego | Heh |
| 22:38.37 | GeneralAntilles | Wasn't libalarm removed in one of the recent updates? |
| 22:38.43 | alterego | O_O |
| 22:38.50 | alterego | Why is it in Chinook then? |
| 22:38.57 | GeneralAntilles | Dunno |
| 22:39.05 | alterego | There's some of libalarm |
| 22:39.09 | alterego | Just not the glib objects. |
| 22:39.27 | GeneralAntilles | Where's that big list of package changes from Bora to Chinook? |
| 22:39.27 | alterego | Which is annoying, because I like binding glib objectx >:( |
| 22:39.40 | alterego | s/objectx/objectx |
| 22:39.42 | alterego | s/objectx/objects |
| 22:39.45 | alterego | :) |
| 22:40.19 | alterego | I suppose I should be happy really, one less thing to do .. |
| 22:40.54 | *** join/#maemo jacques (n=jacques@nslu2-linux/jacques) |
| 22:41.39 | alterego | No libcrt either? |
| 22:42.08 | GeneralAntilles | Would Cairo have anything to do with the PowerVR driver predictions? |
| 22:42.19 | alterego | GeneralAntilles, not really. |
| 22:42.32 | alterego | Cairo is because of Gtk 2.10 |
| 22:42.44 | alterego | >2.8 requires Cairo |
| 22:46.24 | *** join/#maemo aloisiojr (n=aloisio@189.70.1.141) |
| 22:49.29 | Jiten | any ideas on how to track what is creating this extra window my program seems to be creating? |
| 22:50.04 | Jiten | it likely has something to do with this hildonglade.py that I modified a bit so it actually works. |
| 22:51.37 | *** join/#maemo blkno1 (n=jim@pool-70-109-167-85.cncdnh.east.verizon.net) |
| 22:52.42 | Jiten | yes, changing the program to use gtk.glade.XML instead of hildonglade.XML makes it work. I guess hildonglade.py does imperfect job destroying the gtk.window that glade creates |
| 22:55.50 | *** join/#maemo vivijim (n=vivijim@189.13.206.48) |
| 23:00.14 | |tbb| | anyone knows if the wlan adapter of the n810 is the same chip as on the n800 |
| 23:00.41 | timely_changelog | presumably the fcc filings? |
| 23:07.06 | *** join/#maemo _Logic_ (n=logic@70.251.114.247) |
| 23:08.11 | _Logic_ | greetings. Any n800 devs alive here? |
| 23:11.37 | alterego | I develop on the n800 |
| 23:11.48 | _Logic_ | I failed miserably configuring my FC7 system. As far as I could tell, using an AMD64 (even with a 32 bit install) doesn't work with scratchbox. |
| 23:11.58 | alterego | O_o |
| 23:12.01 | alterego | Install debian |
| 23:12.17 | zerojay | _Logic_: Crap, don't say that. I'm in the middle of doing a 32-bit chroot for it. ;/ |
| 23:12.19 | _Logic_ | Will that work with a 64-bit architecture? |
| 23:12.36 | alterego | zerojay, you're not using FC :P |
| 23:12.43 | zerojay | Thankfully. |
| 23:13.05 | alterego | Someone should really do a good tutorial on this .. |
| 23:13.08 | _Logic_ | I tried getting Ubuntu and Kubunti (32 bit and 64 bit) installed. It hangs in what appears to be partition detection |
| 23:13.22 | alterego | 64 bit machines are common place now .. |
| 23:13.25 | _Logic_ | What I would *love* is an install CD with everything needed for the dev platform |
| 23:13.37 | _Logic_ | I'll buy a 32 bit system if I can hit the ground running :) |
| 23:13.41 | alterego | LiveCD. |
| 23:13.43 | zerojay | I'm installing scratchbox on my Gentoo 64-bit box. Hoping it'll go well. |
| 23:13.50 | alterego | I think there is a Live CD floating around. |
| 23:13.55 | alterego | If not there's always the VMWare image. |
| 23:14.03 | alterego | Which you can use with VMWare player. |
| 23:14.20 | alterego | Meh, gentoo. |
| 23:14.39 | alterego | Only weirdos use that dist :P |
| 23:14.46 | zerojay | Control freaks. ;) |
| 23:14.52 | _Logic_ | arg. need to go make some dinner for the kiddos. bbl |
| 23:15.07 | alterego | I'm more of a perfectionist than a control freak. |
| 23:15.12 | alterego | I guess that's why I use Debian :P |
| 23:15.26 | zerojay | That would be one reason I'd stay away from Debian. |
| 23:15.39 | zerojay | I can't stand it. |
| 23:15.46 | alterego | Debian is _the_ best Linux OS. |
| 23:15.52 | alterego | Gentoo isn't even in the top 10 |
| 23:15.56 | alterego | Well, top 5 |
| 23:16.05 | celesteh | holy war alaert! |
| 23:16.06 | zerojay | Debian's horrible. Dependancies are complete hell. |
| 23:16.13 | alterego | Heh |
| 23:16.13 | zerojay | dependencies. |
| 23:16.19 | celesteh | s/alaert/alert/ |
| 23:16.39 | alterego | I can't believe you're saying that when you use the most broken package management system invented for Linux :P |
| 23:16.42 | derf | You make being a weirdo sound bad. |
| 23:16.52 | zerojay | I got so tired of hunting down .deb B and .deb C compiled properly so that .deb A would work without bloat all over the place. |
| 23:17.01 | alterego | O_o |
| 23:17.10 | celesteh | debian has better tools for music than many otehr distros |
| 23:17.14 | alterego | You see, that's your control freak side. |
| 23:17.15 | celesteh | unless i'm thinking of fedora |
| 23:17.21 | pupnik | funny, i have no problems with sidux (debian sid) |
| 23:17.42 | alterego | I can't say I've ever had any problems with debian. |
| 23:17.42 | zerojay | I generally just want stuff to work.. without hunting for stuff constantly or using some really really old packages. |
| 23:17.49 | alterego | This just work and they work in tune with how I think. |
| 23:18.14 | pupnik | gentoo was a good learning experience |
| 23:18.14 | zerojay | It was good for an old laptop that I had.. but I couldn't even imagine running that for a desktop. |
| 23:18.18 | alterego | I _understand_ how debian operates, the choices the team make are the choices I'd probably make. |
| 23:18.20 | *** part/#maemo toed (i=toad@proxima.lp0.eu) |
| 23:18.35 | *** join/#maemo akai- (n=akai@apn-101-27.gprsbal.plusgsm.pl) |
| 23:18.44 | pupnik | :) |
| 23:18.48 | akai- | hi |
| 23:18.48 | _Monkey | bonjour, akai- |
| 23:19.00 | pupnik | "whatever works for you, is good" |
| 23:19.02 | zerojay | Slack was alright for a while though it's not been as good since Pat got sick a year or two ago. |
| 23:19.04 | alterego | gentoo, well. It's so broken. |
| 23:19.08 | x2 | hey guys |
| 23:19.10 | x2 | i have a questing |
| 23:19.14 | x2 | http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowTo_EASILY_Partition_your_MMC_card |
| 23:19.15 | alterego | I've never used slack but I've heard good things about it. |
| 23:19.19 | x2 | i have 07 hacker |
| 23:19.27 | x2 | so I should do the steps fr the n800 right? |
| 23:19.29 | zerojay | alterego: People throw that word around constantly. The fact that my box works perfectly fine shows that it's not broken. :) |
| 23:19.43 | alterego | zerojay, no, it shows you're lucky. |
| 23:19.48 | alterego | Or you're not trying hard enough :P |
| 23:20.01 | alterego | We'll see how successful your sbox install is :P |
| 23:20.09 | x2 | anyone? |
| 23:20.10 | x2 | :/ |
| 23:20.15 | derf | My 32-bit sbox install worked perfectly on Gentoo. |
| 23:20.23 | zerojay | A string of 6 years of good luck? I'd say that's pretty good. :) |
| 23:20.24 | alterego | x2, no. |
| 23:20.28 | x2 | oh? |
| 23:20.28 | derf | On 32-bit Gentoo, I should say. |
| 23:20.42 | zerojay | derf: That's what I'm worried about... but we'll see. |
| 23:20.57 | timely_changelog | the only good linux is a dead linux :) |
| 23:21.01 | derf | I haven't tried it on my 64-bit Gentoo box. |
| 23:21.11 | zerojay | derf: I'll let you know how it goes. |
| 23:21.20 | alterego | I can't take the risk with gentoo. |
| 23:21.29 | x2 | alterego? |
| 23:21.30 | _Monkey | i guess alterego is yes ;) |
| 23:21.32 | alterego | In theory it's a nice idea but it's just not worth it. |
| 23:21.33 | zerojay | alterego: Risk of...? |
| 23:21.56 | alterego | Stability, it breaking and me having to spend an hour or so reinstalling again. |
| 23:22.04 | timely_changelog | _monkey forget alterego |
| 23:22.04 | _Monkey | timely_changelog: I forgot alterego |
| 23:22.06 | alterego | These are things that just wont happen under debian. |
| 23:22.13 | timely_changelog | _monkey alterego is <reply> |
| 23:22.14 | _Monkey | OK, timely_changelog. |
| 23:22.21 | zerojay | alterego: You should talk to our IT guy then. |
| 23:22.45 | alterego | Just like, I wouldn't trust anything but debian on my servers. |
| 23:22.51 | alterego | Anything else would be crazy ! |
| 23:22.52 | alterego | :) |
| 23:23.09 | derf | In my experience, no distro I've ever seen properly handles upgrading software on a live system. |
| 23:23.16 | derf | 99% of the time things work. |
| 23:23.22 | timely_changelog | 90% |
| 23:23.23 | derf | But I have a lot more than 100 packages installed. |
| 23:23.27 | zerojay | We tried it... we encountered so many problems that the company just decided to wipe it out after three days and they replaced it with.. I think it's SuSE. |
| 23:23.44 | timely_changelog | the other 9% of the time you just don't notice the corruption until later :) |
| 23:23.49 | derf | The difference between Gentoo and Debian is that on Gentoo, I can _always_ find a way to fix it. |
| 23:23.51 | alterego | zerojay, your "IT guy" obviously wasn't very useful. |
| 23:23.59 | alterego | Which is sad. |
| 23:24.02 | zerojay | alterego: Bzzzzt. Try again. |
| 23:24.13 | alterego | I'm not convinced. |
| 23:24.31 | alterego | I can setup a LAMP install with debian in about 10 minutes. |
| 23:24.40 | zerojay | That's fine. You don't need to be. You weren't there for the days upon days of deailing with broken packages and libraries that no longer existed, etc... |
| 23:25.00 | alterego | zerojay, sounds like you're talking about another OS. You wouldn't get that with debian. |
| 23:25.11 | zerojay | Got that with Debian. |
| 23:25.11 | derf | alterego: It sounds like you're living with your head in the sand. |
| 23:25.16 | derf | That sounds _exactly_ like Debian. |
| 23:25.22 | alterego | O_o |
| 23:25.33 | alterego | Maybe the unstable tree .. |
| 23:25.40 | derf | I never ran unstable. |
| 23:25.47 | zerojay | And once broken packages make it into Debian, it takes *ages* to get them fixed. |
| 23:25.56 | alterego | I remember I once installed an unstable package and it actually uninstalled half of my system. |
| 23:25.59 | alterego | That was quite fun. |
| 23:26.04 | derf | Yes, that also. |
| 23:26.14 | x2 | LOL |
| 23:26.20 | derf | But substitute testing for unstable. |
| 23:26.29 | alterego | Well, I've never had a broken package like you describe. Not outside of unstable. |
| 23:26.37 | zerojay | Debian's got some upsides to it, that's for sure... but it just wasn't working out for us. I had far less problems with it on an old laptop though, but I never really installed much on that anyways. |
| 23:26.48 | alterego | Yeah well, I wouldn't use anything but stable now. |
| 23:26.49 | derf | Then you are either phenomenally lucky, or you throw your computers away every 6 months. |
| 23:26.55 | alterego | If I want something new I'll compile it myself. |
| 23:27.02 | zerojay | Gentoo's not the sort of thing you'd usually use on production machines most of the time either. |
| 23:27.10 | derf | Oh, good God now. |
| 23:27.12 | derf | No. |
| 23:27.27 | derf | But for a personal development machine? Yes, please. |
| 23:27.39 | alterego | Riiight .. |
| 23:28.05 | derf | Though I know a guy who uses Gentoo for all his production machines. |
| 23:28.06 | zerojay | I've built a few Gentoo boxes for people... the only downside is the compilation time, but that's barely noticable anymore anyways. |
| 23:28.14 | alterego | debian: server; gentoo: toy robot; |
| 23:28.18 | alterego | That's what I'd use those for. |
| 23:28.32 | alterego | Heh, barely noticeable .. |
| 23:28.49 | zerojay | It's nice being able to type one command and have everything you need installed to run it and not have to worry about a bazillion extra programs being installed because a packager compiled it with every option possible. |
| 23:28.55 | alterego | Why, why compile the whole system? |
| 23:29.06 | alterego | For a 0.1% speed increase? :P |
| 23:29.10 | zerojay | You don't have to. I just like to do it. |
| 23:29.11 | zerojay | No. |
| 23:29.15 | Jiten | you know, I'm using a mix of Debian etch and testing/unstable and your problems sounds just unimaginable. I haven't had any problems I couldn't fix in 10 minutes. |
| 23:29.20 | zerojay | So that you can exclude the crap you don't need. |
| 23:29.21 | jeremyb | timelyx: is there a microb channel? |
| 23:29.23 | derf | It has nothing to do with speed. |
| 23:29.29 | zerojay | Which equals less possibility of security problems. |
| 23:29.34 | alterego | Jiten, exactly :) |
| 23:29.39 | zerojay | Less cruft you'd never need. |
| 23:29.58 | alterego | microbe? |
| 23:29.59 | alterego | :) |
| 23:30.02 | jeremyb | hehe |
| 23:30.04 | alterego | Or Micro Bee |
| 23:30.06 | zerojay | I just say Micro-Bee. |
| 23:30.14 | alterego | Yeah, me too. |
| 23:30.24 | alterego | I think I'll start calling it Microbe from now on though, It's cooler. |
| 23:30.31 | jeremyb | hehe |
| 23:30.37 | *** join/#maemo ryanfaerman (n=ryanfaer@crlspr-69.65.71.237.myacc.net) |
| 23:31.27 | derf | I mean, I started using Debian at potato. |
| 23:31.36 | derf | By sarge, I gave up. |
| 23:31.48 | TPC | ha |
| 23:31.48 | zerojay | I don't remember which we were using at the time. |
| 23:31.59 | TPC | debian potato was my first distro |
| 23:32.04 | TPC | I didn't know anything about linux |
| 23:32.09 | alterego | Mandrake was my first :X |
| 23:32.12 | alterego | Then sarge |
| 23:32.15 | TPC | I got the install and tried installing.. and failed miserably |
| 23:32.18 | TPC | ahh.. the memories |
| 23:32.31 | zerojay | Mandrake was my first install of Linux I did with X. |
| 23:32.52 | zerojay | Before that.. I think a console only version of VectorLinux. |
| 23:32.53 | alterego | Then LFS, then FC, then Ubuntu, then debian again, and now etch :) |
| 23:33.11 | alterego | I missed gentoo. |
| 23:33.16 | deejoe | slackware |
| 23:33.17 | _Monkey | slackware is the only os I have tried so far that fights setite's network card |
| 23:33.19 | alterego | It wouldn't do anything. |
| 23:33.26 | alterego | Kept screwing everything up. |
| 23:33.30 | alterego | So I went to LFS |
| 23:33.40 | jj- | Is there some feature equal to gentoo use-flags in debian apt-get ? |
| 23:34.11 | alterego | apt-get doesn't compile packages jj- |
| 23:34.23 | deejoe | jj- I think you can set some defaults for apt-build |
| 23:34.24 | zerojay | You probably didn't read the (admittedly lengthy) installation docs for Gentoo then... everyone I know that had problems just didn't read it or didn't know enough about their system (built for the wrong arch, for example). |
| 23:34.31 | Jiten | I heard it's possible to set apt up to compile everything |
| 23:34.33 | jj- | alterego: Yeah, I know that, that is why I'm asking =) |
| 23:34.34 | zerojay | Or got tired of dealing with it. |
| 23:34.41 | alterego | zerojay, I was reading them from start to finish. |
| 23:34.55 | alterego | Jiten, yeah. It's pretty cool. |
| 23:35.01 | zerojay | Yeah, I know. That's what they all say. ;) |
| 23:35.03 | deejoe | jj-, Jiten: http://julien.danjou.info/article-apt-build.html |
| 23:35.14 | derf | I actually hate the new automated Gentoo installer. |
| 23:35.19 | derf | I still do it from scratch by hand. |
| 23:35.19 | zerojay | derf: Same here. |
| 23:35.21 | alterego | zerojay, that's what I say. |
| 23:35.28 | zerojay | What a horrible piece of crap it is. |
| 23:35.41 | derf | Of course, I hated Debian's installer, also. |
| 23:35.48 | zerojay | Debian's wasn't bad. |
| 23:35.51 | alterego | the etch installer is nice. |
| 23:36.03 | alterego | the Gtk framebuffer installer that is |
| 23:36.19 | zerojay | I haven't played with their latest ones though, but most of the time, it went well enough. |
| 23:36.22 | TPC | I used gentoo for years |
| 23:36.27 | alterego | The old sarge one was pretty easy. As long as you knew what a partition was etc. |
| 23:36.30 | TPC | but I stopped about 6 months ago |
| 23:36.38 | TPC | the quality control of gentoo has been bad lately |
| 23:36.57 | zerojay | Yeah, there's been a few more problems than usual lately. |
| 23:37.04 | zerojay | A few key people getting burned out. |
| 23:37.23 | derf | Gentoo does need to do a better job of recruiting competent volunteers. |
| 23:37.25 | TPC | broken packages not getting fixed, non-essential packages not getting new versions for over a year even thought a simple version change in the ebuild is all that is required, bug reports not getting attention, etc |
| 23:37.42 | TPC | gentoo has too few good developers for a distro of its size |
| 23:37.52 | TPC | no one to take care of the non-core packages |
| 23:37.53 | derf | But I do not know a distro for which that is not true. |
| 23:37.57 | zerojay | I haven't come across any real problems though. Nothing that wasn't a quick text file fix away. |
| 23:38.09 | zerojay | But I know a few people that have. |
| 23:38.22 | TPC | well, debian has many developers that are only responsible for one or a few packages |
| 23:38.34 | TPC | that works well, since there is a maintainer for each package |
| 23:38.37 | TPC | there is always someone who cares |
| 23:38.48 | alterego | :) |
| 23:38.49 | zerojay | If they're still involved with the project, anyways. |
| 23:38.49 | TPC | freebsd do the same thing with their ports system |
| 23:38.53 | derf | I was very impressed by the Theora package maintainer. |
| 23:39.07 | TPC | and often the package maintainer in debian is the author of the software |
| 23:39.17 | alterego | Yeah |
| 23:39.21 | alterego | Which is even better :) |
| 23:39.24 | TPC | which is nice for getting bugs fixed and new versions pushed into unstable |
| 23:39.39 | zerojay | Most of the time, but I did come across quite a few completely abandoned packages as well. |
| 23:40.06 | TPC | yes, there will obviously always be a few packages where the maintainer left and no one new has stepped up |
| 23:40.07 | zerojay | FreeBSD is pretty good about their stuff as well. |
| 23:40.49 | TPC | here is a list: http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/orphaned |
| 23:41.05 | zerojay | Ports is generally good, but there were a few times where it didn't know what to do anymore. |
| 23:41.12 | TPC | altought 300 packages out of (last time I saw a figure, which was at least a year ago) 15000 packages isn't that bad |
| 23:42.13 | zerojay | I wouldn't mind going back to FreeBSD... though if I make a switch anytime soon, I'm going to give OpenSolaris a shot. |
| 23:42.22 | *** join/#maemo Agogo (n=root@115.109.50.60.klj03-home.tm.net.my) |
| 23:42.48 | zerojay | Mainly because I haven't played with it and want to learn more about it. |
| 23:42.55 | zerojay | Agogo: IRC as root? |
| 23:42.59 | x2 | wtf |
| 23:43.04 | x2 | i installed xterm |
| 23:43.15 | x2 | and when I do sudo gainroot |
| 23:43.36 | x2 | I get a message saying "enable RD mode if you want to break your device" |
| 23:43.42 | x2 | what am I doing wrong? |
| 23:43.47 | TPC | I wouldn't mind going to freebsd again as well |
| 23:44.09 | TPC | except that all my disks are encrypted with dm-crypt |
| 23:44.18 | TPC | which is linux-only |
| 23:44.39 | TPC | x2, I suggest you install a ssh server |
| 23:45.00 | TPC | and then ssh to the root account on the device |
| 23:45.05 | TPC | and add yourself to sudoers |
| 23:45.13 | x2 | o.0 |
| 23:45.19 | x2 | http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowTo_EASILY_BecomeRoot |
| 23:46.21 | *** join/#maemo doublec (n=doublec@203-97-173-6.cable.telstraclear.net) |
| 23:47.01 | TPC | x2, I think thats only for the 770 |
| 23:47.12 | x2 | i have the 770 |
| 23:47.26 | x2 | that should be for both though |
| 23:47.55 | TPC | ah, well, then I have no idea |
| 23:48.35 | TPC | but the ssh approach is easy and works |
| 23:50.35 | x2 | rofl |
| 23:50.37 | x2 | i gots it |
| 23:52.45 | alterego | Hmm, I might actually finish ConIc before I go to bed. |
| 23:52.50 | alterego | Though it is 1am :S |
| 23:53.09 | TPC | only 1 in you're timezone? you're lucky :P |
| 23:53.14 | TPC | almost 2 here |
| 23:56.07 | alterego | I think I'll just finish this class. |
| 23:57.17 | alterego | Which I've just done :) |
| 23:58.03 | sp3000 | two even |
| 23:59.46 | alterego | SVN makes me horny. |
