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| 00:36.30 | setite | n8 |
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| 02:14.09 | jordoncm | hello? |
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| 03:13.06 | pupnik | moorning |
| 03:14.11 | timeless | that it is :( |
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| 04:13.44 | pupnik | Ron Paul won the Republican Presidential debate - Fox Text Message Results Poll "driving Hannity crrazy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwtARO0Xpkk :) |
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| 05:14.31 | milhouse | Pavarotti dead - poor bugger. |
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| 05:26.31 | saaib | hi everyone |
| 05:28.16 | saaib | I finally sent my 770 to the repair center :S |
| 05:28.22 | saaib | SOD |
| 05:28.28 | saaib | after only 3 weeks of use |
| 05:28.58 | milhouse | that sucks :( |
| 05:28.59 | saaib | that's weird...and I noticed it happened after I shutdown the tablet |
| 05:29.16 | milhouse | yep, usually the case |
| 05:29.25 | milhouse | that it happens after a shutdown |
| 05:29.30 | saaib | I put the cover on the 770 and then my wife wanted to show something to a family member, when I turn the device, ugly lines! |
| 05:30.51 | saaib | nobody has figured out what exactly they do to fix them? |
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| 05:31.11 | saaib | do they actually replace the screen or they might hack something in the OS? |
| 05:31.19 | milhouse | screen |
| 05:31.19 | _Monkey | hmmm... screen is bigger, so it's much more natural |
| 05:31.26 | milhouse | forget screen |
| 05:31.27 | _Monkey | milhouse: I forgot screen |
| 05:31.33 | milhouse | screen is <reply> |
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| 05:33.19 | saaib | how long it takes once they receive the device to have it fixed? (average) |
| 05:33.39 | milhouse | dunno, my n800 took 5 weeks to fix the sensitivity problem (UK). |
| 05:33.59 | milhouse | it varies by region... some people have gone months |
| 05:34.49 | milhouse | but that was a while back during a period when Nokia had just closed a major repair center in the US and moved it to Mexico... should be better now |
| 05:35.47 | saaib | mhh.. I had to send mine from CA to AL |
| 05:35.57 | saaib | (US) |
| 05:36.17 | milhouse | i think there's an SLA of about 30 days |
| 05:36.36 | saaib | what's SLA? |
| 05:36.42 | milhouse | service level agreement |
| 05:36.46 | saaib | oh |
| 05:37.00 | milhouse | bascially a commitment to you to complete the job within that timeframe, after which it should be escalated |
| 05:38.24 | saaib | let me check the printout... |
| 05:39.51 | saaib | Will it says "Turnaround time for in-warranty repairs is approximately 7-10 business days" |
| 05:40.11 | saaib | 2 weeks is not bad, but they don't say anything about what I'm entitled if they exceed that timeframe |
| 05:40.47 | milhouse | you should check the itt forum for other users experiences |
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| 05:50.19 | pupnik | I have to say *thank you* to the community and the people who helped me learn how to use and port for this device. |
| 05:51.02 | pupnik | and the people at nokia who helped me too |
| 05:51.08 | milhouse | no, thank you :) |
| 05:51.28 | saaib | pupnik, thanks for the good comments/suggestions thrown into this channel |
| 05:52.09 | pupnik | You're welcome. It's been a lot of fun. |
| 05:53.13 | pupnik | And there's so much to do. |
| 05:53.40 | pupnik | It's like a feast of opportunities to do cool things. |
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| 05:54.11 | pupnik | On the PC there's always someone else, somewhere, who is already doing it. |
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| 05:54.17 | pupnik | (almost) |
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| 05:58.03 | saaib | pupnik, hehe, I wanted to get really deep into developing in 770 until the freaking unit broke |
| 05:58.38 | gregorovius | hi, I was wondering if anyone uses a nokia tablet with a keyboard to take notes in college? |
| 05:58.41 | saaib | I already had my development enviroment setup script and some ideas (based on some proposals I made on the openmoko mailing list) |
| 05:58.51 | saaib | now I need to wait :S |
| 05:59.43 | gregorovius | and cares to comment on their experience :) |
| 06:00.08 | saaib | gregorovius, my brother-in-law wanted to have one 770 with a laser keyboard... but I'll have to wait 'till I get back my 770 from repair :P |
| 06:00.35 | saaib | (I was going to test it and made the setup for him.. he'll buy the keyboard |
| 06:01.17 | saaib | I think the damn thing goes around $140? |
| 06:01.28 | gregorovius | yep, that's why i'm looking at it :) |
| 06:01.33 | saaib | which is about the current price of the 770 |
| 06:02.08 | gregorovius | I'm looking for a subnotebook or something alike under $300 or so, and it seemed like a good choice |
| 06:02.31 | gregorovius | but i'm not sure if the screen would be too small, or the keyboard/tablet combo too akward |
| 06:03.21 | gregorovius | and battery time, as well |
| 06:04.09 | saaib | If you'll be taking notes in classroom I bet will be easier if you have the nokia connected to the power outlet and using the bluetooth laser keyboard |
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| 06:05.32 | gregorovius | I was thinking in using a clicky keyboard, and a power outlet isn't always near |
| 06:08.21 | gregorovius | how long does the battery last when only playing music? |
| 06:08.49 | saaib | gregorovius, something like http://770.fs-security.com/maemo-bt-plugin/ ? |
| 06:09.13 | gregorovius | that's right, saaib |
| 06:14.11 | saaib | gregorovius, hope you find something nice |
| 06:14.25 | saaib | but for now, time for bed... good night everyone |
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| 06:30.48 | MoRpHeUz | ok, now we must have a good web-browser...because ipod touch is just a lot better regarding web-browsing experience.... |
| 06:39.19 | timelyx | hrm |
| 06:40.03 | timelyx | in order to do what the iPhone does, you need a decent touch screen |
| 06:40.09 | timelyx | maemo devices don't have such a thing |
| 06:40.29 | timelyx | you also need forward thinking UI designers and no legacy requirements |
| 06:40.42 | timelyx | and you certainly need flexibility |
| 06:40.46 | timelyx | we don't really have those things |
| 06:47.25 | timelyx | pupnik: ok, load about:config |
| 06:48.05 | MoRpHeUz | timelyx: yes! agreed! our main problems (on my point of view) are: touch screen, processor and gtk =P |
| 06:48.40 | lle2 | timelyx: sure we don't have a great touchscreen, but it's not really preventing anybody from creating a usable UI, sure you can't do two-finger zooming effects etc, but it's not /that/ bad |
| 06:48.40 | MoRpHeUz | timelyx: it's not developer's fault...I mean, the platform itself doesnt give sufficient power to developers do what they want to do. |
| 06:48.51 | MoRpHeUz | timelyx: imagine microb with 600 mhz... |
| 06:48.58 | timelyx | MoRpHeUz: actually, it wouldn't matter |
| 06:49.09 | timelyx | we could do most of what the iphone does in terms of features |
| 06:49.16 | pupnik | timelyx: for some reason it's crashing - can i start the browser from xterm? (hadn't crashed on me before) |
| 06:49.17 | timelyx | it's more a matter of engineering time than cycle time |
| 06:49.25 | timelyx | pupnik /usr/bin/browser |
| 06:49.32 | MoRpHeUz | timelyx: what do you mean with engineering time ? |
| 06:49.47 | timelyx | MoRpHeUz: we have a small team, they have tasks they need to do |
| 06:49.48 | pupnik | segfault :( |
| 06:49.52 | timelyx | there's no time to implement |
| 06:49.59 | timelyx | pupnik: do you have /media/mmc1/core-dumps? |
| 06:50.09 | MoRpHeUz | timelyx: ok...this is an issue also... |
| 06:50.18 | pupnik | timelyx: no - should i create that dir/ |
| 06:50.21 | timelyx | yes |
| 06:50.32 | MoRpHeUz | timelyx: but that's why "community" is out there hehe... |
| 06:50.50 | pupnik | it comes up with the browser window and i can see text entry field and icons |
| 06:50.52 | lle2 | timelyx: I have to say the priorities are totally fucked if the engineers don't have time to do what should be done... |
| 06:50.56 | MoRpHeUz | k-s proved that iphone keyboard is a piece of cake with evas... |
| 06:51.03 | timelyx | lle2: welcome to nokia |
| 06:51.03 | pupnik | ok got a core dump |
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| 06:51.14 | timelyx | i'm done w/ my work for the release, i finished ~2hrs ago |
| 06:51.20 | timelyx | and now it's time for me to take a vacation |
| 06:51.24 | timelyx | or at least pack for one |
| 06:51.54 | lle2 | timelyx: I call bullshit, there's no reason why we (osso) need to repeat every one of the mistakes the previous four platform organizations have done |
| 06:51.58 | timelyx | pupnik: in theory you can apt-get install -dbg packages for microb |
| 06:52.02 | MoRpHeUz | the other stuff we can do... |
| 06:52.26 | timelyx | lle2: organizational structure seems to demand it |
| 06:52.44 | timelyx | lle2: note: nothing i say here means i endorse these practices |
| 06:52.44 | pupnik | ok well i guess i can't be the quick tester - gonna reboot to see if it solves it |
| 06:52.47 | lle2 | timelyx: does not, I suggest that we go on strike to fix it |
| 06:52.54 | MoRpHeUz | we need to organize better ourselves... apple probably also has organization issues.. |
| 06:53.38 | jani | i think organization issues are more rule than exception =) |
| 06:53.53 | lle2 | timelyx: I know, it's just that the only thing I hear when talking to engineers is how /nothing/ can be done any other way than it's currently being screwed up |
| 06:53.58 | MoRpHeUz | jani: agreed.....I've worked for ibm before and it was even worse.... |
| 06:54.25 | timelyx | lle2: we're currently doing end runs around ui specifications by adding easter eggs into core :) |
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| 06:54.52 | pupnik | reboot fixed segfault |
| 06:55.02 | lle2 | timelyx: uhh :) |
| 06:55.06 | MoRpHeUz | timelyx: microb is almost perfect for me....just need more cpu power to make it faster and a better input (touchscreen + another vkbd) |
| 06:55.07 | timelyx | ok, that's a known bug |
| 06:55.29 | timelyx | MoRpHeUz: yes, i really want to fire the current vkb, it causes all sorts of problems for us |
| 06:55.40 | pupnik | ok about:config gives "illegal address // opera:config" |
| 06:55.52 | timelyx | pupnik: um, switch engines: ) |
| 06:55.56 | MoRpHeUz | timelyx: yeah...we need to thing something better than that for canola also |
| 06:56.10 | MoRpHeUz | s/canola/new version of canola/ |
| 06:56.25 | timelyx | s/new/the next/ |
| 06:56.26 | MoRpHeUz | hhmm |
| 06:56.41 | MoRpHeUz | exactly |
| 06:56.58 | MoRpHeUz | timelyx: btw, am I out of your blacklist ? lol =P |
| 06:57.16 | timelyx | yes |
| 06:57.46 | timelyx | sorry, i take demands on the browser personally |
| 06:59.08 | MoRpHeUz | haha =D |
| 07:01.12 | lardman | derf: ping |
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| 07:05.47 | lle2 | timelyx: but yeah, it's unbelievable that during the last 3-4 months that nokia has been evaluating/testing/developing sb2, they've yet to produce a single patch |
| 07:06.25 | lle2 | some valuable feedback and error reports, but that's it |
| 07:06.42 | timelyx | lle2: i sent you patches :) |
| 07:06.47 | timelyx | (don't count me as nokia) |
| 07:07.01 | lle2 | you don't count as nokia |
| 07:07.08 | timelyx | glad we agree :) |
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| 07:09.27 | pupnik | http://browser.garage.maemo.org/ i can't browse down this |
| 07:09.29 | pupnik | microb-browser - MicroB engine for OSSO browser |
| 07:09.32 | pupnik | Nokia770-49:~# apt-cache policy microb-browser |
| 07:09.34 | pupnik | Installed: 0.0.8-3 |
| 07:09.37 | pupnik | aah there's an update |
| 07:10.12 | pupnik | /bin/sh: /usr/sbin/dpkg-preconfigure: not found |
| 07:10.12 | pupnik | dpkg: cannot scan updates directory `/var/lib/dpkg/updates/': Input/output error |
| 07:10.36 | inz | Is your fs b0rken? |
| 07:10.48 | pupnik | must be |
| 07:10.58 | pupnik | ls -l /var/lib/dpkg/ shows now updates |
| 07:11.04 | pupnik | s/now/no/ |
| 07:11.20 | pupnik | ls: /var/lib/dpkg/updates: Input/output error |
| 07:11.39 | lle2 | sounds healthy |
| 07:11.59 | timelyx | apt-get new device |
| 07:12.35 | lle2 | apple-get new ipod |
| 07:12.46 | pupnik | well it's mmc - i'll reboot and copy a known good file system to the partition |
| 07:15.29 | timelyx | lle2: sounds better, probably works, definitely cheaper |
| 07:16.04 | timelyx | pupnik: you probably want to use 2g or smaller mmcs |
| 07:16.09 | timelyx | 1g recommended |
| 07:16.38 | pupnik | never had filesystem errors til now (just dropped the 770 again on the floor btw) |
| 07:16.49 | timelyx | heh |
| 07:17.07 | pupnik | ttyl |
| 07:20.10 | lardman | it's rather a slick way to get people to buy music |
| 07:21.36 | lardman | Cool, free starbucks wifi access and it automatically lines up the song playing in the store so you can download it (and pay) |
| 07:21.38 | lardman | very slick |
| 07:21.54 | jani | "yey" |
| 07:22.01 | suihkulokki | hah |
| 07:22.10 | lardman | The cool for me was the free wifi |
| 07:24.19 | suihkulokki | zune feels so pathetic after ipod touch :P |
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| 07:29.03 | MoRpHeUz | ipod touch wil be n800 competitor for web browsing and media playback... |
| 07:29.10 | MoRpHeUz | s/wil/will |
| 07:29.24 | MoRpHeUz | maybe nokia improves next devices touch screen ? |
| 07:29.25 | MoRpHeUz | =) |
| 07:29.34 | lle2 | no chance |
| 07:29.40 | lardman | add a keyboard! |
| 07:29.53 | gla55_ | does touch have bt? |
| 07:29.58 | lle2 | no |
| 07:32.30 | lle2 | the funny thing is that it's not what should be added to n800, it's what should be a) removed b) made to work |
| 07:33.21 | lardman | what's large resolution video playback like with mplayer these days? |
| 07:33.38 | lardman | I wonder what processor the ipod uses |
| 07:33.53 | lle2 | I'm pretty sure it's the same as iphone |
| 07:34.17 | lle2 | which would make it a samsung arm11 at 620MHz or so |
| 07:35.03 | lardman | ah, it's the one with powervr & hw accelerators for video, etc.? |
| 07:35.12 | lardman | bit like our omap? ;) |
| 07:35.40 | lle2 | not sure about those, but yeah. although apple has only support for a couple of video formats and has made sure those actually work |
| 07:36.59 | lle2 | they rely on the service or itunes to feed appropriate content, pretty smart move to avoid abysmal user experience. either it works or it's not supported. not this almost kinda fucked up support for everything |
| 07:37.38 | lardman | it does all fit together very nicely, not what I want, but certainly a nice end-user experience for those who just want music |
| 07:37.57 | lle2 | or video from itunes |
| 07:38.08 | suihkulokki | very very very good end user experience |
| 07:38.32 | lardman | the gimmicky download-the-music-playing-in-Starbucks thing is also an interesting idea (and may be useful) |
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| 07:53.30 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
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| 08:06.07 | Jaffa | Presumably the iPod Touch is running the same OS as the iPhone, so UNIX-like under the covers and the iPhone hacks (1m sold already!) will work. BT would be a killer feature for headphones/keyboards/phones tho |
| 08:07.54 | gla55_ | yeah.. phone connectivity would be killer.. but.. perhaps left out intentionally to improve iphone sales |
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| 08:09.28 | Jaffa | Perhaps. Either way, it's a direct competitor to the N800 (I think the iPhone is, but I know others strongly disagree) - remember the "N" stands for "multimedia". Which is ironic, due to the crapness of the built-in apps ;-) |
| 08:10.02 | pupnik | Built-in multimedia apps have to contend with patent-issues do they not? |
| 08:10.32 | pupnik | What else would stand in the way of nokia using ssvb's mplayer? |
| 08:11.17 | Jaffa | NIH-syndrome, it's viewed as not-finished, commitment to gstreamer, ... - take your pick. |
| 08:11.28 | pupnik | ok |
| 08:11.51 | Jaffa | Nokia have a big patent arsenal of their own, and I'm mostly talking UI anyway. As lle2 said - Apple improve the user experience by providing an end-to-end working solution |
| 08:12.28 | Jaffa | Nokia say "DivX" which is technically correct, but most people seem to expect to be able to play random 640x368 downloaded videos without problem when they hear that. |
| 08:12.30 | pupnik | Yeah, and apple thows their whole weight behind their OS, while Nokia has competing platforms |
| 08:12.37 | pupnik | heh yes |
| 08:12.51 | suihkulokki | Jaffa: you'll notice none of the pmp players in market (including apples solution) supports any significant amount of codecs |
| 08:13.49 | suihkulokki | supporting all the codecs used for warezing is a dead-end route, you'll never be able to support all of them, and you'll get sued |
| 08:13.58 | MoRpHeUz | lle2: you are right about iphone/ipod touch' s processor |
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| 08:15.02 | pupnik | I'm amazed that some of the very closed media players have any significant market success. But i am not joe sixpack. |
| 08:15.06 | MoRpHeUz | lle2: are you from osso ? |
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| 08:15.39 | suihkulokki | Jaffa: so the only sensible solution is to support one (1) codec with one (1) resolution (the screen's native one) and plug in a webshop that sells exactly those |
| 08:16.49 | MoRpHeUz | if the n800 had a better touchscreen + more power processor we could solve software issues (bad UI and so on)... |
| 08:18.25 | MoRpHeUz | the problem is that developers need more power from the platform...if nokia doesnt give this for us, it'll be really difficult to be cooler than ipod touch for example... |
| 08:18.33 | MoRpHeUz | for multimedia stuff we need good hardware.. |
| 08:18.41 | MoRpHeUz | our screensize is just great.... |
| 08:18.45 | pupnik | the N800 is 'good' |
| 08:18.55 | MoRpHeUz | we need that with a better touchscreen.... |
| 08:18.59 | MoRpHeUz | pupnik: exactly... |
| 08:19.06 | keesj | also we need IR , power usb-host, buttons on the right , working openvr , 3d display's 4d speakers, lazer keyboards, multi touch screen , webcam based controlling, hartbeat monitors, gps and gprs functionality |
| 08:19.23 | MoRpHeUz | pupnik: n800's hardware is nothing more than "good" |
| 08:19.37 | pupnik | actually the N800 is the best |
| 08:19.42 | MoRpHeUz | keesj: not that much hehe |
| 08:19.50 | keesj | the screen is just great |
| 08:20.04 | pupnik | best performance/power too |
| 08:20.04 | suihkulokki | keesj: you forgot coffee brewer and kitchen sink |
| 08:20.13 | Fatal | that's the most idiotic argument ever |
| 08:20.16 | MoRpHeUz | pupnik: if you consider the whole platform...but the hardware is not that good...imagine n800 with a 600 mhz processor ? |
| 08:20.19 | Jaffa | suihkulokki: indeed - and/or provide a nice client environment for downloading/finding/transcoding/syncing ones. Imagine Democracy (or whatever it's called now) + iTunes + YouTube + RSS + BitTorrent + transcoding + N800. Yum. |
| 08:20.35 | keesj | long battery live, blood or solar powered |
| 08:20.35 | Fatal | throw more processing power at it.. *rolleyes* |
| 08:20.42 | pupnik | MoRpHeUz: i don't think you know what hardware was available 1.5-2 years ago. |
| 08:21.01 | MoRpHeUz | pupnik: when do you think that apple started building their hardware ? |
| 08:21.06 | MoRpHeUz | ;-) |
| 08:21.24 | pupnik | Name a better SOC than the 2420 then |
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| 08:21.44 | suihkulokki | cpu power is the solution for lazy programmers |
| 08:22.00 | MoRpHeUz | ok, so let's forget cpu power.... |
| 08:22.14 | *** join/#maemo mgedmin (n=mg@office.pov.lt) |
| 08:22.24 | MoRpHeUz | let's talk about the bandwidth that makes that horrible "tilt" effect.... |
| 08:22.33 | MoRpHeUz | why did they put that bus ? |
| 08:22.49 | MoRpHeUz | and not one with a bigger bandwidth ? |
| 08:22.55 | suihkulokki | because it's not designed for 800x480 displays with video playback |
| 08:23.00 | pupnik | suihkulokki: cpu power is very relevant to a few applications. Unconverted movies, flashy UIs, ajax style websites. |
| 08:23.06 | keesj | soc/screen bandwidth bandwith right? |
| 08:23.21 | pupnik | SoC = System on a Chip |
| 08:23.48 | MoRpHeUz | suihkulokki: ok..so you give the user a 800x480 screen but do not want him to play his movies using this resolution ? |
| 08:24.14 | pupnik | MoRpHeUz: Nokia chose the right CPU (SoC) |
| 08:24.31 | *** join/#maemo alex-weej (n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust237.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 08:24.54 | MoRpHeUz | I mean, n800 is a good hardware device...but it needs some improvements to become a great one |
| 08:24.56 | pupnik | And i'm confident Nokia will choose the right SoC for the N800 successor. |
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| 08:25.12 | MoRpHeUz | pupnik: I'm not that confident hehe.... |
| 08:25.25 | MoRpHeUz | pupnik: but let's pray for it ! =D |
| 08:26.08 | pupnik | MoRpHeUz: again, take a look at the SoC's that were available during 770 and N800 development and let us know if you find any with the same power drain and double the performance. |
| 08:27.21 | pupnik | Because you're talking as if they made some terrible design decision in the hardware |
| 08:27.36 | MoRpHeUz | pupnik: maybe they just take too much time to release the hardware ? |
| 08:27.37 | suihkulokki | I think you guys are missing the picture from average users point of view |
| 08:27.47 | gla55_ | they could use the hw better though, powervr / h264 decoding |
| 08:27.49 | suihkulokki | what you want is a general purpose linux pc |
| 08:28.03 | suihkulokki | what they want is a easy to use web browser |
| 08:28.31 | MoRpHeUz | pupnik: I mean, at the time they designed the hardware it was the best possible solution, but it took so many time to release the hardware that it was not that good at release time... |
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| 08:28.56 | MoRpHeUz | suihkulokki: that's the point.. |
| 08:29.11 | MoRpHeUz | suihkulokki: our device does not have a good web-browsing experience... |
| 08:29.28 | gla55_ | it's pretty good |
| 08:29.34 | suihkulokki | MoRpHeUz: because they have added too many features that make it complicated |
| 08:29.51 | MoRpHeUz | suihkulokki: or because the touchscreen is not that responsive, the vkbd is not that good... |
| 08:29.55 | suihkulokki | and this ircing community is only suggesting to add more features |
| 08:29.57 | MoRpHeUz | gla55_: have you ever tried iphone's one ? =) |
| 08:30.25 | suihkulokki | when 90% of the current features should be cut out, and the remaining 10% implemented well |
| 08:30.26 | Jaffa | Gave up and used my wife's laptop for a much more enjoyable experience :-( Was very depressing |
| 08:30.30 | MoRpHeUz | Jaffa: that's the point...and did you see how amazing easy is to web browse with iphone ? |
| 08:30.51 | suihkulokki | so everyone and is sister is whining wabout flash pluging |
| 08:30.53 | gla55_ | MoRpHeUz: in some ways it's better web experience than iphone |
| 08:31.00 | MoRpHeUz | pupnik: but anyway, I was just trying to figure out what we can make better =) |
| 08:31.01 | suihkulokki | when iphone doesn't come with one |
| 08:31.19 | suihkulokki | -> remove flashplayer and add a hardcoded youtube player |
| 08:31.31 | MoRpHeUz | suihkulokki: maybe a good solution... |
| 08:31.49 | MoRpHeUz | suihkulokki: as the current flashplayer doesnt play well youtube videos...(looses some frames) |
| 08:31.55 | gla55_ | the mediaplayer plays 3gp, no? use youtube mobile? |
| 08:32.29 | *** join/#maemo mk8 (n=mk8@ip-212-138.sn1.eutelia.it) |
| 08:32.45 | MoRpHeUz | it's better to have simple things working than advanced ones that does not work so well |
| 08:33.54 | *** part/#maemo tommim (n=tommim@gw.solution.yomi.com) |
| 08:34.29 | MoRpHeUz | anyway, I'm just wondering what we can do to make our platform the best one =) |
| 08:34.36 | Jaffa | MoRpHeUz : indeed |
| 08:35.03 | pupnik | Support new users, advocate the tablet, help with wiki and bugzilla |
| 08:35.49 | MoRpHeUz | pupnik: give opinions about hardware, release good software... |
| 08:35.55 | MoRpHeUz | all of it =) |
| 08:36.38 | suihkulokki | MoRpHeUz: personally I think the biggest thing community could do is put some better finishing touch to 3rd party apps |
| 08:37.12 | pupnik | Yes. |
| 08:37.15 | suihkulokki | more hildonized ui, less crasy apps, put the apps in maemo extras instead of those damnded random repos |
| 08:37.27 | gla55_ | yea |
| 08:37.37 | MoRpHeUz | suihkulokki: yeah, as a community member I agree...and as an INdT worker I need to know the device's/platform's flaws... |
| 08:37.49 | pupnik | exactly what i need to be doing right now |
| 08:38.00 | MoRpHeUz | =P |
| 08:38.05 | pupnik | Or when i get back... - ttyl |
| 08:38.16 | Jaffa | suihkulokki: I think you just have to look at the iPhone to see how well polished third party apps are, if the ones on the platform itself are polished. |
| 08:39.33 | MoRpHeUz | Jaffa: for sure we need to take some lessons with this iphone release...one of them is: simplicity is much better than lot of "almost-working" features =) |
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| 08:42.55 | MoRpHeUz | btw, anybody from Oulu here ? |
| 08:42.56 | MoRpHeUz | =) |
| 08:43.28 | Mikho | \o |
| 08:44.11 | MoRpHeUz | Mikho: I'm working here in Oulu these days =) good city |
| 08:44.20 | Mikho | I like it here too |
| 08:44.56 | suihkulokki | MoRpHeUz: well I think you'll find more people in oulu who decide about the hardware than from here :P |
| 08:45.46 | MoRpHeUz | suihkulokki: haha, for sure...I'm inside nokia right now =) hehe |
| 08:46.03 | MoRpHeUz | suihkulokki: but it's good to know your opinion and so on |
| 08:46.20 | MoRpHeUz | good to talk about this subject anyway =) |
| 08:46.55 | suihkulokki | my opinion is kinda irrelevant :P |
| 08:48.10 | MoRpHeUz | suihkulokki: not for me hehe....everybody's opinion is important...(ok, there are some people that it's better to ignore but for sure you're not one of those hehe) |
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| 09:04.04 | sujan | Hello |
| 09:05.13 | sujan | I have 4 external file nammed *.PNG and *.txt.. I want to add these file in debian..How to do that? |
| 09:07.00 | henno | sujan: what do you mean 'external' |
| 09:07.17 | henno | and add them to what? |
| 09:07.46 | sujan | means i have an text file and i read data from that file |
| 09:07.52 | sujan | debian |
| 09:07.52 | _Monkey | debian is probably really easy to use, and I think the install that exists on the nokia devices are a lot more custom tailored for them than you think |
| 09:08.00 | gla55_ | your question really makes no sense |
| 09:08.15 | henno | sujan: I am sorry, I have no idea what you are asking |
| 09:08.38 | sujan | Ok |
| 09:08.41 | gla55_ | you read them with what? less? and where are the files if not in debian, if debian is the os that you run |
| 09:08.42 | MoRpHeUz | I think he means a debian package... |
| 09:08.47 | henno | sujan: you have a text file that you read, and you want to add it.. whatever that means |
| 09:09.17 | sujan | yes,debian package |
| 09:09.18 | MoRpHeUz | probably he has a program with these files and he wants to package everything..(I guess hehe) |
| 09:09.20 | MoRpHeUz | =) |
| 09:09.24 | sujan | ya |
| 09:09.51 | sujan | yes,<MoRpHeUz> is correct |
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| 09:14.42 | AD-N770 | good morning |
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| 09:36.05 | sujan | Can you please give me any idea about making debian package from eclipse IDE? |
| 09:36.25 | sujan | I am using laika |
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| 09:58.00 | Nermal | :) |
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| 10:40.45 | skler` | someone try angstrom-distro on n800? |
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| 10:46.21 | pupnik | yes |
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| 11:28.42 | lardman | How many bitstreams do ogg vorbis files normally have? |
| 11:29.28 | lardman | just wondering if I can write for the simplest case first, then extend if needs be |
| 11:33.23 | derf | lardman: Pong. |
| 11:33.30 | lardman | derf: Hi |
| 11:33.30 | _Monkey | hello, lardman |
| 11:33.52 | lardman | I'm taking another crack at method #2 |
| 11:34.11 | lardman | but throwing away most of the existing code, for the time being at least |
| 11:34.22 | lardman | ov_read() and sub-functions that is |
| 11:35.11 | lardman | derf: Is there any requirement to track granules? Other than for display/seeking purposes? |
| 11:37.21 | lardman | derf: the other question is: do normal ogg vorbis files contain a single bitstream? If so, I could make the code easier to understand and write (in the first instance at least) |
| 11:38.12 | derf | You need to know the granule position on the first page and last page of a chain. |
| 11:38.46 | derf | Because it's used to signal how many samples to trim off the beginning and end of the stream (for sample-accurate cuts). |
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| 11:39.44 | derf | And while we encourage proper chaining support, reality is of course that most people drop it on the floor. |
| 11:39.45 | lardman | is this as part of the decoding step (i.e. extra info can be included but not output), or simply so people can fiddle with which parts of the file are output? |
| 11:40.51 | lardman | I'd be happy to support chaining too, but implementing the whole lot in one go is painful, so I was going to go easiest case first, then add further support |
| 11:41.03 | derf | Yeah, that's certainly reasonable. |
| 11:41.13 | lardman | so most files don't need chaining? |
| 11:41.17 | derf | Correct. |
| 11:41.21 | lardman | good good |
| 11:41.28 | lardman | makes life easier |
| 11:42.07 | derf | Anyway, the idea behind sample accurate cutting is so someone can take a file and cut it at an exact location without re-encoding. |
| 11:42.27 | lardman | okay, so in the first instance, I don't need to pay that too much attention? |
| 11:42.56 | derf | Since of course the exact location won't necessarily fall on a block boundary, some of the beginning samples or ending samples will have to be discarded. |
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| 11:43.52 | derf | You don't really need to pay attention when decoding, but you should pay attention when routing the decoded output to the speakers. |
| 11:44.41 | lardman | why? surely the bitrate is set already? |
| 11:44.52 | lardman | so there's no need to track the amount of pcm data |
| 11:44.57 | lardman | other than to ensure that there's enough |
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| 11:46.43 | GS | someone use aircrack-ng? i installed it but not have aireplay-ng!! someideas? |
| 11:49.21 | derf | I don't see what bitrate has to do with anything. |
| 11:50.22 | derf | I'm saying the MDCT output of the first two blocks will be n samples, but you might only be supposed to output m of them, where 0<=m<=n. |
| 11:50.35 | derf | And similarly for the last two blocks. |
| 11:50.35 | lardman | ah, I see, that's what I was wondering |
| 11:50.54 | lardman | the bitrate was something else - about your comment of keeping track of what's sent to the speakers |
| 11:51.20 | derf | The granule position contains enough information to tell you how many samples to drop. |
| 11:51.28 | lardman | Is that because the output of the MDCT may sound odd for the first/last blocks due to padding? |
| 11:51.44 | lardman | or just doesn't contain information in fact |
| 11:51.49 | lardman | useful info that is |
| 11:52.21 | derf | Well, notice I said the first two blocks. |
| 11:52.34 | derf | It always takes at least two successive blocks to get any output at all. |
| 11:52.41 | lardman | okay |
| 11:53.06 | derf | So half of the first block is always padding. |
| 11:53.32 | derf | But that padding is supposed to be chosen in such a way that it doesn't compromise the real signal that follows (and is easy to compress). |
| 11:53.39 | lardman | and the latter half is constructed to improve the compression of the first actual audio data? |
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| 11:54.07 | derf | Right. |
| 11:54.46 | lardman | okay, so I'll get some odd bits and pieces if I output the entire stream. That's fine for the time being, I can add granule tracking once I've worked out how to structure the code |
| 11:54.47 | lardman | thanks |
| 11:54.49 | derf | Discarding leading samples is really just done to support cutting a file at somewhere other than a block boundary. |
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| 12:08.33 | kriebz | my 770 is getting really flakey |
| 12:08.41 | kriebz | might be time to consider a re-flash |
| 12:08.44 | *** join/#maemo bilboed (n=bilboed@pdpc/supporter/active/bilboed) |
| 12:08.50 | kriebz | but I thought I had the newest OS when I got it |
| 12:12.46 | *** join/#maemo robl^ (n=robl@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/robl) |
| 12:13.56 | robl^ | Mornin' |
| 12:14.04 | kriebz | hi |
| 12:14.05 | _Monkey | hello, kriebz |
| 12:14.12 | kriebz | hi! |
| 12:14.45 | robl^ | How is everyone? |
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| 12:16.01 | kriebz | * kriebz is sad |
| 12:16.01 | kriebz | <kriebz> my 770 is getting really flakey |
| 12:16.01 | kriebz | <kriebz> might be time to consider a re-flash |
| 12:16.45 | robl^ | Time for an n800 |
| 12:16.48 | kriebz | I got it from woot.com |
| 12:16.49 | pupnik | flake happens |
| 12:16.54 | kriebz | for all I know it's a re-furb |
| 12:17.12 | kriebz | I can't afford the n800 right now |
| 12:17.23 | kriebz | also, it's not a cool looking |
| 12:17.27 | kriebz | as* |
| 12:17.32 | pupnik | that's what's so nice about booting from mmc - just copy back an old OS image and you're at the same spot you left off on your last backup |
| 12:17.52 | kriebz | yeah, I'm going to buy one |
| 12:17.55 | kriebz | right now, why not |
| 12:17.56 | pupnik | no need to spend 2 afternoons reinstalling and reconfiguring one |
| 12:18.12 | pupnik | i have a 770 |
| 12:18.19 | robl^ | I need to see if i can figure out mmc boot on my 800 |
| 12:18.43 | kriebz | does the n800 support DS as well? I thought I heard that. |
| 12:18.54 | pupnik | ds? |
| 12:19.01 | kriebz | oops |
| 12:19.03 | kriebz | SD |
| 12:19.10 | pupnik | 800 has 2 sd slots |
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| 12:19.32 | kriebz | anyone hack an SD-IO stack for it yet? |
| 12:19.57 | robl^ | I have a 4gb mmc and a 1gb mmc instaled here |
| 12:20.01 | pupnik | i forgot what SDIO is |
| 12:20.14 | kriebz | cards like WiFi for an SD slot |
| 12:20.24 | kriebz | people with newer Palms use them |
| 12:20.36 | pupnik | robl^: help me out - i don't have an N800 - why do you say mmc? i thought the slots were for SD? |
| 12:20.54 | kriebz | maybe he has MMC cards in them even though they support SD |
| 12:21.22 | pupnik | oh i see, the slot size is the same, apparently |
| 12:21.27 | robl^ | Mmc works as well as SD |
| 12:21.31 | kriebz | SD are thicker |
| 12:21.41 | kriebz | and have two extra pins |
| 12:21.52 | kriebz | but same outline |
| 12:22.02 | pupnik | ok ty |
| 12:22.03 | kriebz | and pin placement for the n-2 pins |
| 12:22.33 | kriebz | http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134098 |
| 12:22.40 | robl^ | But nokia does support the extra security in those cards.. So it really doesnt matter |
| 12:22.42 | kriebz | that should do nicely |
| 12:25.51 | robl^ | Need to find a tool to convert a bunch of windows media wmv files for playback on n800 |
| 12:27.19 | pupnik | mplayer can handle a lot of wmv codecs |
| 12:27.28 | pupnik | (directly on the N800) |
| 12:27.42 | pupnik | but if they are > 240 height you will want to transcode regardless |
| 12:27.57 | kriebz | nice chatting |
| 12:27.59 | pupnik | 770-encode? |
| 12:28.00 | _Monkey | 770-encode is probably Jaffa's favourite - but I'm biased :) |
| 12:28.00 | pupnik | cu |
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| 12:29.47 | robl^ | Mplayer choked on these... |
| 12:30.33 | robl^ | VLC plays it on my laptop |
| 12:32.01 | ssvb | robl^: most likely that's because of wma audio in these files |
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| 12:43.59 | tso | hmm, is gnash available on the 770 or N800? |
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| 12:54.27 | pupnik | mediaconverter? |
| 12:54.27 | _Monkey | i heard mediaconverter was a frontend to mencoder which transcodes videos to a 770 or N800 optimized format. Get it here: http://mediaconverter.garage.maemo.org/ |
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| 13:01.07 | Jaffa | robl^: for i in *.wmv; do 770-encode -p good $i $i.avi; done; cp *.avi /media/n800/Video/ |
| 13:02.12 | Jaffa | 770-encode is at http://www.bleb.org/software/770/#encode |
| 13:03.08 | robl^ | Appears to be a codec issue... Cant seem to get converters to open it. "Windows media screen v7" |
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| 13:07.38 | robl^ | I'll try 770-convert, but i have little hope at the moment |
| 13:08.51 | cosmo | robl^: there's also my version http://www.modeemi.fi/~cosmo/projects/encode770/ |
| 13:09.04 | cosmo | dunno how well it works nowadays |
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| 13:11.34 | robl^ | Thanks for the pointers, cosmo et al.. Will try agin. |
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| 13:45.49 | lardman | derf: If a frame of vorbis data (produced from a single packet) has a usual size of 4096 (I think I remember reading that somewhere), that's 4 096 / 44 100 ~=0.09s of data |
| 13:46.09 | lardman | derf: So is it safe to assume that when pausing a decoder, I could simply pause at the next packet decode? |
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| 13:48.01 | GS | someone know where i can find url for maemo-mapper google maps? |
| 13:48.14 | lardman | isn't it built in? |
| 13:48.26 | pupnik | 770-encode? |
| 13:48.26 | _Monkey | 770-encode is a perl script to transcode video to 770/N800 friendly format. Get it at http://www.bleb.org/software/770/#encode A java GUI version for win/OSX/linux can be found at http://mediaconverter.garage.maemo.org and an alternative shellscript transcoder can be found at http://www.modeemi.fi/~cosmo/projects/encode770/ |
| 13:48.42 | lardman | GS: it will automatically fill in the required bits and bobs, certainly in the latest version |
| 13:48.58 | lardman | I wish _Monkey wouldn't do that |
| 13:49.06 | lardman | can't we get him to reply to the ~ instead? |
| 13:49.12 | lardman | ~770-encode |
| 13:49.42 | Nermal | !770-encode |
| 13:49.45 | Nermal | hmm |
| 13:50.03 | pupnik | i think it would be preferable also to use special character |
| 13:51.22 | derf | lardman: 4096 samples is the max. That's only used in some low bitrate modes IIRC, normaly blocks are smaller. So, yes. |
| 13:51.56 | lardman | derf: Cool, just thinking ahead |
| 13:53.04 | pupnik | nice clean script there cosmo |
| 13:53.42 | GS | lardman, thank u but i have the latest ... |
| 13:54.07 | cosmo | pupnik: thanks, it's based on some older script on maemo wiki |
| 13:55.47 | lardman | GS: menu-> maps>manage repos |
| 13:55.55 | lardman | GS: Then download iirc |
| 13:56.33 | Veggen | hmm. I should try the gmyth-things again...how does it work, anyone tried? |
| 13:56.40 | lardman | GS: that downloads a list of pre-generated formats from online iirc |
| 13:56.42 | GS | ooo cool ;) sorry lardman |
| 13:56.46 | GS | i cant see |
| 13:56.49 | GS | hehe |
| 13:57.34 | Veggen | Nowadays, when I schedule a recording in myth, I have to tick off on "tablet-encoding", then it ends up in a web-accessible directory where I can download it to my tablet. Sort of nice that too, but maybe gmyth is more elegant ;) |
| 13:59.33 | pupnik | interesting stuff Veggen - i'm looking to build a mythbox soon - just got the transmitter for it |
| 13:59.47 | pupnik | (for the analog tv upstairs) |
| 13:59.57 | Veggen | pupnik: I've so far avoided the digital hell. |
| 14:00.16 | suihkulokki | Veggen do you have link for the tablet-encoding script? |
| 14:00.33 | Veggen | it was a variant of 770-encode.pl things. |
| 14:02.28 | Veggen | http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Transcoding_for_the_PDA might have been the description, it's at least very like what I did. |
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| 14:07.51 | lardman | derf: A quickie, the ogg_reference objects (i.e. the things that contain the ogg_packet data) appear to be in a linked list. Is this linked list required/checked by the decoder? |
| 14:08.43 | GS | lardman, is normal that google sat not work? |
| 14:08.44 | Blacksitox | hi |
| 14:08.56 | lardman | GS: No idea, I've not tried it |
| 14:09.04 | GS | ok thank ;) |
| 14:11.19 | lardman | it's like russian dolls! ogg_packet contains ogg_reference contains ogg_buffer contains some data at last |
| 14:16.47 | lardman | derf: The docs are wrong with the definition of oggpack_readinit() |
| 14:18.55 | lardman | The code says this: void oggpack_readinit(oggpack_buffer *b,ogg_reference *r) |
| 14:19.35 | lardman | the docs say this: void oggpack_readinit(oggpack_buffer *b,unsigned char *buf,int bytes); |
| 14:19.48 | lardman | unless there's some difference between Tremor and standard Vorbis |
| 14:19.53 | lardman | could be I suppose |
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| 14:26.39 | kulve | I would guess there is a difference.. |
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| 14:40.35 | derf | lardman: There is. |
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| 14:40.51 | lardman | derf: Okay, not a problem, just a bit confusing |
| 14:41.02 | derf | Tremor uses libogg2, which was never formally released separately. |
| 14:41.39 | derf | The main ideas behind libogg2 being that it has a much smaller memory footprint and is zero-copy. |
| 14:42.30 | lardman | I want to copy an ogg_packet over |
| 14:42.40 | lardman | therefore I need to recreate the bits contained within it |
| 14:42.57 | lardman | at least to some degree. Are the reference tracking parts used by the decoder? I can't see that they are |
| 14:43.10 | lardman | s/bits/parts |
| 14:43.18 | lardman | bits is a loaded word in this context :) |
| 14:43.58 | zuh | Two-edged revolver |
| 14:44.00 | zuh | no, wait |
| 14:45.32 | derf | All the reference counting is handled in framing.c, I believe. |
| 14:49.36 | lardman | urgh |
| 14:49.39 | lardman | not sure that's good |
| 14:50.04 | lardman | looks like the bit reading functions may use them, though perhaps that's just if one reads out the end |
| 14:51.39 | lardman | more caffeine |
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| 15:26.10 | sladen | lardman|afk: jazelle |
| 15:26.11 | _Monkey | well, jazelle is a hardware extension for some ARM processors (like the one in the N800) that allows direct bytecode execution |
| 15:26.41 | tso | that is java bytecode |
| 15:26.41 | sladen | thank you _Monkey you need fixing to only speak when spoke to |
| 15:27.19 | sladen | a subset of zero or more java bytecodes |
| 15:28.12 | zeenix | sladen: yo |
| 15:28.25 | zeenix | sladen: didn't know you hang around on this channel :) |
| 15:28.59 | sladen | zeenix: don't generally, nchip pointed me here as lardman was doing some jazelle stuff too |
| 15:29.03 | lardman | sladen: What are your thoughts on Jazelle? |
| 15:30.11 | sladen | lardman: I have most of it specced, bar the exact interaction of the stack head shadowing and where the state of that shadowing is held (I'm suspecting PSR bits 20-23 and 25-26) |
| 15:30.22 | sladen | lardman: and I've tried to avoid reading the patents |
| 15:30.49 | lardman | sladen: Do you have anything I can read to see your progress? |
| 15:31.05 | lardman | sladen: You've not missed much in the patents ;) |
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| 16:52.37 | disq | uh |
| 16:52.55 | disq | i can't change the icons in the statusbar. it won't save my changes |
| 16:53.01 | disq | any ideas as to why? don't want to reflash |
| 16:58.55 | pupnik | Are you changing icon bitmaps/animations for pre-installed applets? |
| 16:59.13 | disq | no |
| 16:59.19 | disq | the navigation/statusbar thingy in the cp |
| 16:59.31 | disq | so i can't reorder or enable/disable statusbar icons |
| 16:59.42 | disq | erm, apps/plugins rather |
| 17:02.36 | disq | `chown -R user.users /home/user/.osso/hildon-status-bar` fixed it |
| 17:03.57 | pupnik | aha! |
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| 17:49.52 | zaf | ? |
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| 19:08.40 | erstazi | hello everyone |
| 19:09.23 | TonyMaro | hi |
| 19:11.19 | erstazi | hello TonyMaro |
| 19:11.32 | erstazi | TonyMaro: how are you? |
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| 19:12.30 | erstazi | hello mallum |
| 19:12.53 | mallum | erstazi: hey |
| 19:13.50 | erstazi | its quiet today... no one must want help ): |
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| 19:35.23 | amr | is there a way to get events in dates to repeat every week? |
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| 19:43.51 | qgil | mallum? Da real mallum ? |
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| 21:22.03 | __pv | any people using xkbd on n800? does pressing return on xkbd pop up the Maemo virtual keyboard for you? |
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| 21:39.53 | [31d1] | yikes! lots of people |
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| 21:44.31 | [31d1] | wondering if anyone knows of a package of diffutils for 770 |
| 21:45.02 | [31d1] | i couldn't find one - and managed to compile some working binaries |
| 21:45.28 | [31d1] | and i'll figure out how to make a .deb if it's really the case that no one has bothered to do it already |
| 21:46.46 | [31d1] | but i have a hard time believing no one has needed diff yet |
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| 22:53.10 | sully | Hey peeps. Dumb question no doubt, but has anyone tried YouTube Mobile on their 770/800? http://m.youtube.com/ |
| 22:53.18 | sully | It's a RealPlayer link so you'd think it'd work? |
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| 22:54.36 | NeoStrider | whats up, folks? |
| 22:54.42 | sully | hey NeoStrider |
| 22:54.43 | _Monkey | NeoStrider is, like, probably building you a checkers game as we speak :) |
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| 22:55.09 | [31d1] | m.youtube didnt work on my 770 |
| 22:55.42 | NeoStrider | yes |
| 22:55.44 | sully | hmm, mine either. too bad. |
| 22:55.53 | NeoStrider | and even if it worked, would be too slow |
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| 23:01.20 | user__ | Ex-Chat |
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