IRC log for #maemo on 20070820

`00:13.09`	`*** join/#maemo Emh5945 (n=Emh5945@c-75-69-10-72.hsd1.vt.comcast.net)`
`00:13.51`	`*** join/#maemo shacka1 (n=frob@host71-76.pool8253.interbusiness.it)`
`00:14.08`	`Emh5945`	`Is there a way to get swfdec or gnash running with minimo?`
`00:19.44`	`*** join/#maemo NeoStrider (n=daniel@cm-tvcidade-nri-C8B1D5A3.dynamic.brdterra.com.br)`
`00:20.15`	`*** join/#maemo Andy80 (n=eyufghhg@158.Red-81-39-10.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)`
`00:25.19`	`Blacksitox`	`re`
`00:26.14`	`NeoStrider`	`hey`
`00:42.32`	`*** join/#maemo cesman (n=cecil@dsl-64-30-204-164.static.linkline.com)`
`00:42.58`	`*** join/#maemo NeoStrider (n=daniel@cm-tvcidade-nri-C8B1D5A3.dynamic.brdterra.com.br)`
`00:43.18`	`*** join/#maemo Pio (n=sean@h175.149.4.12.cable.frzr.cablerocket.net)`
`00:43.50`	`*** join/#maemo MCCob (n=MCCob@bre91-1-82-238-224-20.fbx.proxad.net)`
`00:44.22`	`NeoStrider`	`hey`
`00:44.23`	`MCCob`	`hello :)`
`00:44.29`	`MCCob`	`hello guardian ;)`
`00:44.41`	`MCCob`	`a and guerby`
`00:44.43`	`NeoStrider`	`you guys know how can I #IFDEF that my app is running on device`
`00:44.46`	`MCCob`	`(from France)`
`00:45.08`	`NeoStrider`	`s/device/device?/`
`00:46.11`	`MCCob`	`Does anyone know if there is a Gmail Notifier for OS 2006 (and N 770) ?`
`00:48.32`	`pupnik`	`ifdef is a compile time option, not a runtime option infobot`
`00:48.36`	`pupnik`	`i mean NeoStrider`
`00:48.58`	`MCCob`	`Too late for neostrider I think ;)`
`00:49.16`	`pupnik`	`gah i /am/ tired`
`00:50.50`	`erstazi`	`MCCob: that would be a neat applet to make, but I am sure there is one out there, have you checked http://maemo.org?`
`00:51.03`	`MCCob`	`yep`
`00:51.14`	`erstazi`	`pupnik, I am tired as well, but you have to be really tired being GMT+3`
`00:51.16`	`MCCob`	`There is an applet for N800 (OS 2007)`
`00:51.31`	`MCCob`	`but not for OS 2006`
`00:51.33`	`erstazi`	`MCCob, I will have to port it then for OS2006 heh`
`00:51.37`	`MCCob`	`:)`
`00:51.50`	`MCCob`	`so cool :)`
`00:52.39`	`pupnik`	`#maemo is one of few places where you can get a port just by asking :)`
`00:52.55`	`MCCob`	`Oooo !`
`00:52.57`	`erstazi`	`well, I would not mind porting it because I would use it myself`
`00:53.02`	`MCCob`	`Ok more difficult`
`00:53.22`	`MCCob`	`I want the last release of Minimo for OS 2006`
`00:53.23`	`MCCob`	`:)`
`00:53.24`	`erstazi`	`MCCob, you said you are from france, is this correct?`
`00:53.29`	`MCCob`	`Yeah :)`
`00:53.40`	`*** join/#maemo greentux__ (n=lemke@Z62c2.z.pppool.de)`
`00:53.49`	`erstazi`	`_Monkey: tell MCCob about minimo`
`00:54.05`	`*** join/#maemo ajturner (n=ajturner@67.38.16.92)`
`00:54.11`	`erstazi`	`MCCob, _Monkey (a bot) pm'ed you with info about minimo`
`00:54.21`	`MCCob`	`I have minimo`
`00:54.25`	`erstazi`	`ok nevermind heh`
`00:54.32`	`*** join/#maemo ajturner (n=ajturner@adsl-67-38-16-92.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net)`
`00:54.36`	`MCCob`	`but it isn't the _last_ release ;)`
`00:55.23`	`erstazi`	`ah`
`00:55.31`	`erstazi`	`that would be a project that I would not be able to take on myself`
`00:55.58`	`MCCob`	`Yep, Minimo is a hard to developp software :)`
`00:56.16`	`MCCob`	`but Gmail notifier must be much easier ! http://www.flickr.com/photos/atmasphere/462203848/ :)`
`00:56.37`	`MCCob`	`also another Question :)`
`00:56.55`	`*** join/#maemo pdz (n=paul@135.14.169.217.in-addr.arpa)`
`00:56.56`	`erstazi`	`MCCob, I am looking at the gmail notifier at this moment, shoot your question`
`00:57.14`	`BigMac`	`Hey, anyway to uninstall gtalk/stop it from loading on start up?`
`00:57.15`	`MCCob`	`I've downloaded GPSDrive deb here : http://www.elisanet.fi/tapio.tolvanen/nokia770.html`
`00:57.41`	`MCCob`	`but package make error while installing them`
`00:57.42`	`erstazi`	`I haven't messed with GPS yet, so I am not to sure about that one`
`00:57.54`	`erstazi`	`MCCob, is it for OS2006 also?`
`00:57.59`	`MCCob`	`particulary maemo-libpcre3_0.0.1_arm.deb`
`00:58.03`	`erstazi`	`MCCob, is Gmailmon what you mean?`
`00:58.44`	`MCCob`	`Gmailmon isn't Gmail Notifier I think but I can be acceptable also ;)`
`00:58.54`	`MCCob`	`If you see what I mean`
`00:58.59`	`erstazi`	`yes I do`
`00:59.08`	`MCCob`	`cool :)`
`00:59.46`	`MCCob`	`I think Gmail Notifier is a software developped by Nokia and released on tableeter`
`01:00.26`	`erstazi`	`ah`
`01:00.27`	`MCCob`	`GmailMon is an application developp for OS 2005 I Think`
`01:00.30`	`erstazi`	`let me see if they give source code`
`01:02.41`	`*** join/#maemo Radar (n=radar@pool-72-84-194-207.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net)`
`01:03.04`	`MCCob`	`and GmailMon is available here : http://www.tabletcorner.com/nokia770/products.html but package must be build for OS 2005`
`01:03.46`	`*** join/#maemo pdz- (n=paul@135.14.169.217.in-addr.arpa)`
`01:03.57`	`MCCob`	`and (finally :) ) I think "official" Gmail Notifier (by Nokia ?) must be better`
`01:04.20`	`erstazi`	`MCCob, hmm, it runs on OS2006 though`
`01:04.36`	`erstazi`	`the GmailMon,... but I think the Gmail Notifier will be a better choice of course`
`01:06.44`	`*** join/#maemo behdad (n=behdad@CPE001217b19226-CM0012c9c84bc4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`01:06.45`	`MCCob`	`when I try to install gmailmon, apt-get visual interface say to me : uncompatible deb (in French), and logs say ; "Package must have "Section: user:FOO" to be considered compatible"`
`01:07.17`	`*** part/#maemo behdad (n=behdad@CPE001217b19226-CM0012c9c84bc4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`01:08.08`	`*** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com)`
`01:08.36`	`erstazi`	`ah`
`01:08.51`	`MCCob`	`so ? :)`
`01:10.15`	`MCCob`	`You found anything about Gmail Notifier ?`
`01:11.45`	`erstazi`	`MCCob, is it mnotify`
`01:11.47`	`erstazi`	`?`
`01:11.51`	`MCCob`	`yees !`
`01:12.30`	`MCCob`	`http://bp0.blogger.com/_Ki_XGZxWsq4/RsNdpciefzI/AAAAAAAABsE/AIOfo_Q8nhc/s1600-h/screenshot02.png`
`01:12.36`	`MCCob`	`We can see it here`
`01:13.23`	`erstazi`	`MCCob, its closed source (meaning nokia did not release the source code) but I can attempt to make an applet for it`
`01:13.38`	`erstazi`	`MCCob: http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/certified/pool/bora/user/source/m/mnotify/`
`01:13.41`	`MCCob`	`Thank's a lot`
`01:13.50`	`*** join/#maemo high_roller (n=user@208.76.93.22)`
`01:14.06`	`MCCob`	`Why Nokia don't relaese source code ! ?`
`01:14.10`	`erstazi`	`that would be where the sources would be, I see the debs in the other directory but its not released, or I can ask the maintainer for the source code but it might fall on deaf ears`
`01:14.17`	`erstazi`	`MCCob, proprietary`
`01:14.26`	`MCCob`	`They release source code for maemo and no for this ?!`
`01:14.44`	`MCCob`	`erstazi, and you, where are you from ?`
`01:15.21`	`erstazi`	`MCCob, yes, that happens, not everything is OSS (: I am from the USA`
`01:15.55`	`MCCob`	`ok :) You will have 2 Ghz wiMax soon with Sprint ;)`
`01:16.34`	`MCCob`	`Nokia source manager doesn't listen community ?`
`01:17.29`	`erstazi`	`MCCob, it doesn't matter what the maintainers opinion was, Nokia made it proprietary and did not release the source code`
`01:17.39`	`MCCob`	`ok ok ok ;)`
`01:17.51`	`MCCob`	`so that's strange...`
`01:17.58`	`erstazi`	`MCCob, does the follow URL look interesting? http://www.tabletcorner.com/nokia770/guides/gmm_usersguide.html`
`01:18.15`	`erstazi`	`I understand you want the gmail notifer in the toolbar at the top`
`01:18.30`	`high_roller`	`is anyone running os2007 on their 770?`
`01:18.36`	`MCCob`	`not me`
`01:18.44`	`erstazi`	`high_roller, some are but not all`
`01:18.55`	`erstazi`	`high_roller, some even dual boot both OS2006 and OS2007HE`
`01:19.05`	`high_roller`	`is it worth it?`
`01:19.19`	`erstazi`	`high_roller, personally, I don't see the worth, I kept OS2006`
`01:19.27`	`MCCob`	`erstazi> I see that, but I think a Python lib can't solve problem in application manager while problem installing a deb file....`
`01:19.49`	`erstazi`	`MCCob, hmm, I am not sure, let me check some more things`
`01:19.57`	`high_roller`	`to dual boot you need a 1gb mem card right?`
`01:20.50`	`erstazi`	`high_roller, its suggested, a 2gb rs-mmc card is only $20 USD last I checked`
`01:21.02`	`high_roller`	`oh nice`
`01:21.09`	`MCCob`	`http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowTo_GetStartedWithSardine`
`01:21.18`	`MCCob`	`"Realistically, a 512MB memory card."`
`01:21.38`	`MCCob`	`http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/3-x/howto_dualboot_bora.html`
`01:21.41`	`MCCob`	`"256 Mb MMC card (minimum)"`
`01:21.52`	`MCCob`	`"ask google ;)"`
`01:22.11`	`MCCob`	`$20 !`
`01:22.16`	`high_roller`	`i'm on my 770 now`
`01:22.39`	`high_roller`	`just seeing how good chat is`
`01:22.49`	`erstazi`	`high_roller, did you just receive your 770?`
`01:23.11`	`high_roller`	`i got mine from woot`
`01:23.14`	`MCCob`	`In France, a 2 Gb RS-MMC is about 40 � (about $53)`
`01:24.03`	`high_roller`	`about a month ago`
`01:24.11`	`MCCob`	`like me :)`
`01:24.38`	`MCCob`	`so bedtime`
`01:24.40`	`MCCob`	`bye !`
`01:25.05`	`high_roller`	`bye`
`01:25.36`	`erstazi`	`MCCob, I will try working on that tonight`
`01:25.45`	`erstazi`	`MCCob, but I might get tired myself, talk to you later`
`01:26.23`	`MCCob`	`ok ok`
`01:26.31`	`MCCob`	`I will go back ;)`
`01:27.28`	`MCCob`	`"take your time"`
`01:31.54`	`*** join/#maemo zodttd (n=zottd@user-142glmm.cable.mindspring.com)`
`01:32.19`	`zodttd`	`Hi pupnik. Just heard about the issues you had with cdrmooby`
`01:32.35`	`pupnik`	`hi`
`01:32.46`	`pupnik`	`author said he fixed it in 2003`
`01:32.55`	`zodttd`	`I had other issues with it too`
`01:33.01`	`pupnik`	`aah`
`01:33.26`	`zodttd`	`I landed up reverting to my own "plugin" I wrote. But it did work with .z / .bin`
`01:33.39`	`zodttd`	`What happens exactly when it fails?`
`01:34.19`	`zodttd`	`Also, for better performance, try Dr Hells Soft GPU ;)`
`01:34.31`	`pupnik`	`'Read past EOF'`
`01:34.41`	`pupnik`	`i have only tested with a few PD isos`
`01:34.52`	`pupnik`	`transferring large isos at 200kB/s is a pain`
`01:34.53`	`zodttd`	`PCSX also has a BIAS define, edit it to underclock the psx timers`
`01:34.56`	`zodttd`	`Ahhh`
`01:35.10`	`pupnik`	`well the error only occurs on the small isos`
`01:35.16`	`pupnik`	`ok will do that`
`01:35.18`	`zodttd`	`Weird, but I can see that`
`01:35.27`	`pupnik`	`Dr. Hells is available for DL?`
`01:35.29`	`zodttd`	`Yup`
`01:35.43`	`zodttd`	`http://members.at.infoseek.co.jp/DrHell/labo/index.html`
`01:36.26`	`zodttd`	`I wonder if my dynarec works well on the OMAP, havent tested it on it`
`01:38.36`	`pupnik`	`does lowering samplerate on the SPU help performance much?`
`01:40.12`	`pupnik`	`i got rid of stuttering on freesci by going down to 11025 mono on the adlib opl2 synth - sounds surprisingly good`
`01:40.14`	`zodttd`	`Not really`
`01:40.22`	`zodttd`	`Depends on the SPU though`
`01:40.26`	`zodttd`	`You using Pete's?`
`01:40.29`	`pupnik`	`yes`
`01:40.51`	`*** join/#maemo NeoStrider (n=daniel@cm-tvcidade-nri-C8B1D5A3.dynamic.brdterra.com.br)`
`01:41.03`	`zodttd`	`I used Pete's at first. It can be made faster, as Franxis basically rewrote the SPU for us.`
`01:41.32`	`zodttd`	`What will be tempting, is when you get a real PSX commercial game running with a BIAS set high`
`01:41.39`	`zodttd`	`It will go through menu's and such very fast`
`01:41.51`	`zodttd`	`From your 2fps to 20 :P`
`01:42.06`	`zodttd`	`Problem is, it makes things extremely incompatible`
`01:42.36`	`zodttd`	`Which is what took me ages to figure out. The counters.c are poorly designed but correctly done`
`01:42.46`	`zodttd`	`Except!`
`01:43.03`	`NeoStrider`	`hey folks!!!!`
`01:43.03`	`zodttd`	`If you use that SPU_Async ;)`
`01:43.11`	`NeoStrider`	`angstron just got BETA!!!!`
`01:43.20`	`NeoStrider`	`finished everything`
`01:43.32`	`NeoStrider`	`made a good packing, bulding the levels inside the .deb`
`01:43.34`	`zodttd`	`If SPU_Async is tied into the root counters of pcsx then it triggers an interrupt way too often`
`01:43.35`	`NeoStrider`	`very easy`
`01:43.43`	`pupnik`	`ahh`
`01:43.43`	`zodttd`	`NeoStrider: awesome. Congrats RP`
`01:44.11`	`yllus`	`Someone needs to port Zuma to the Nokia ITs :o`
`01:44.59`	`zodttd`	`Someone would need to release the source or get a really freaky recompiler for X86 on ARM, and thats not happenin ;)`
`01:45.30`	`zodttd`	`Unfortunately WindowsBox doesnt exist :P`
`01:45.33`	`pupnik`	`i'll build dr hell into this and take a look at your tips`
`01:46.11`	`pupnik`	`but i'm not going to spend very much time on pcsx`
`01:46.18`	`zodttd`	`pupnik: I'm about to get a lot of stuff rewritten in my emulator. I'll try to get you on our SVN when its up.`
`01:46.20`	`pupnik`	`did some work on the config menus`
`01:46.26`	`Radar`	`has no one created the .deb firefox plugins for MicroB yet?`
`01:47.47`	`pupnik`	`cool zodttd`
`01:47.56`	`zodttd`	`:)`
`01:48.25`	`NeoStrider`	`770 packaging system doesnt handle checksums?`
`01:49.14`	`zodttd`	`To be honest, if you get about 2 FPS on a N770, I wouldnt worry about fixing it up. It took years to get from PCSX to where psx4all is now. I rather have you manage a psx4nokia port then have you go through the trouble.`
`01:49.56`	`zodttd`	`It was 2 FPS and less when I first ported PCSX to the GP2X though. Sometimes games got 5, that was after some work too.`
`01:49.59`	`pupnik`	`yes, i wanted an 'unoptimized baseline psx emulator' so we could compare psx4all to it`
`01:50.42`	`zodttd`	`Heh :)`
`01:50.47`	`trevarthan`	`new kagu release if you all hadn't noticed yet: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9007`
`01:51.13`	`zodttd`	`Im suprised you got PCSX working though, as theres a few bugs and lots of wrong ways of porting it`
`01:51.55`	`pupnik`	`it was probably good that i didn't know what i was getting into`
`01:52.22`	`zodttd`	`Im still suprised nobody used that OMAP processor overclocker on the Nokia N770/800`
`01:52.47`	`pupnik`	`we have had reports from nokia that they weren't able to get much OCing out of it`
`01:53.14`	`zodttd`	`I basically started psx4all when I ported PCSX to the Tapwave Zodiac over one night, and kept trying to improve it until it became something completely different. :P`
`01:53.23`	`zodttd`	`Ahhh. Could very well be true`
`01:54.08`	`Luria`	`anyone know how to decompile a vkb file?`
`01:55.22`	`pupnik`	`what's a good way to stay in touch about splitting-up work on this zodttd ?`
`01:56.27`	`pupnik`	`there are a couple of tricks i can share for fast rendering/blitting`
`01:56.31`	`NeoStrider`	`pupnik: have you worked on the data packages for smw?`
`01:56.39`	`NeoStrider`	`I just solved that issue for angstron`
`01:56.40`	`pupnik`	`otherwise it's pretty straightforward linux`
`01:56.45`	`NeoStrider`	`"one package does it all"`
`01:56.50`	`pupnik`	`NeoStrider: for packaging? no`
`01:56.59`	`NeoStrider`	`quite easy`
`01:57.01`	`pupnik`	`do you prompt for the data directory?`
`01:57.10`	`NeoStrider`	`just hacked the .deb`
`01:57.23`	`NeoStrider`	`added the filed in ./usr/share/angstron`
`01:57.37`	`NeoStrider`	`the .deb already had the structured...I just dropped the files there`
`01:57.45`	`NeoStrider`	`that you can do in 2 minutes!`
`01:57.55`	`pupnik`	`i've merged data plus program debs from another game`
`01:58.29`	`pupnik`	`but the right way (imo) is to prompt user for game data directory`
`01:59.18`	`pupnik`	`also with smw there are many user-designed levels, which probably shoudln't go into /usr/share`
`01:59.51`	`NeoStrider`	`my plan is to provide to versions`
`01:59.57`	`NeoStrider`	`one for the average joe`
`02:00.01`	`NeoStrider`	`and other for the power user`
`02:00.10`	`NeoStrider`	`the poweruser version look for datafiles on the mmc card`
`02:01.39`	`*** join/#maemo zodman (n=zodman@189.151.70.240)`
`02:05.44`	`vmarks`	`superglue is brittle. I would have used a hotmelt that has some flex to it.`
`02:06.15`	`vmarks`	`<PROTECTED>`
`02:06.26`	`Darksmurf`	`Good idea. I'll give that a go when I rip this out and fix it.`
`02:06.59`	`Darksmurf`	`I'm worried how well it will adhere (sp?) to the metel of the usb connector.`
`02:07.13`	`vmarks`	`there are hotmelts that do good metal adherence.`
`02:07.53`	`BigMac`	`Hey, anyway to uninstall gtalk/stop it from loading on start up?`
`02:08.14`	`Luria`	`wow. yanks are only four back.`
`02:13.49`	`erstazi`	`hmm`
`02:14.47`	`erstazi`	`so, I think porting a statusbar app to OS2006 from OS2007 wasn't going to be this difficult but I am surprised by the required libraries and 100% of them are in need of update, but if they released the source code, I could start from scratch`
`02:14.53`	`Luria`	`somehow it seems that microb has gotten worse when it comes to scrolling (with the obvious exception of the keyboard popup thing)`
`02:16.27`	`NeoStrider`	`hey guys, check it out!`
`02:16.29`	`NeoStrider`	`https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/1983/angstron_a5_armel.deb`
`02:17.04`	`pupnik`	`will do NeoStrider`
`02:20.49`	`trevarthan`	`Luria: yeah, and all you need to do to crash microb is visit ITT and browse around a bit. then boom!`
`02:22.04`	`Luria`	`i got a better one`
`02:22.36`	`Luria`	`anyone wanna test a bug? dunno if it's filed.`
`02:24.50`	`Luria`	`got to gmail, type in your name, hit tab to switch fields, type in your password`
`02:25.09`	`Luria`	`got=go`
`02:25.54`	`erstazi`	`I got a better one, install an app through ssh with unmet libraries and you cannot use applicaton manager on your tablet`
`02:25.58`	`Luria`	`password should appear as plaintext in key/thumb board`
`02:27.06`	`Luria`	`well, i was talking about fixable things in microb. the pack manager is beyond help.`
`02:27.27`	`erstazi`	`Luria, haha I am just playing, but that did happen though`
`02:30.41`	`Luria`	`i should reread that arrl book. i think im gonna take the technician test tomorrow`
`02:36.05`	`Luria`	`anyone still use gizmo on the n800?`
`02:40.12`	`rwhitby`	`Luria: I do`
`02:40.47`	`*** join/#maemo DaniloCesar (n=user@201-14-37-76.ctame705.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br)`
`02:41.51`	`*** join/#maemo user__ (n=user@74.92.226.209)`
`02:42.33`	`user__`	`anyone running orb?`
`02:44.07`	`*** join/#maemo pdz (n=paul@135.14.169.217.in-addr.arpa)`
`02:44.19`	`Luria`	`rwhitby, if i may ask, why?`
`02:45.52`	`rwhitby`	`cause it uses the standard SIP protocol, rather than a proprietary Skype protocol, and it's EULA doesn't require me to allow Skype to use my computer and network to route other people's calls.`
`02:47.34`	`rwhitby`	`Since it's SIP, it interoperates with a softphone on my laptop, a hardware ATA adapter at my home, and a usb handset attached to an NSLU2, and the Gizmo presence client that runs on my Treo650.`
`02:48.06`	`rwhitby`	`(and any of the other million different things that interoperate with the open IETF SIP standard.`
`02:49.04`	`Luria`	`oh - you misunderstand me`
`02:49.20`	`Luria`	`i understand why you use sip`
`02:49.51`	`Luria`	`but i would have thought most here would have switched to rtcomm`
`02:50.43`	`Luria`	`i was just wondering if any n800 users are still using the full client`
`02:51.11`	`rwhitby`	`ah, I have loaded rtcomm, but haven't really tested it out yet.`
`02:51.38`	`rwhitby`	`(sorry for the misunderstanding)`
`02:52.16`	`Luria`	`no prob. i've ranted against skype a few times too ;-)`
`02:54.55`	`*** join/#maemo canyouscore (n=canyousc@c-68-40-20-72.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)`
`02:57.01`	`Rocketman`	`Any ORB users here?`
`02:57.29`	`erstazi`	`Rocketman, user_ is an orb user (:`
`03:05.43`	`BigMac`	`Rocketman: Yah, just set i up today`
`03:06.12`	`BigMac`	`Anyone know if any bluetooth headsets work with the 770 yet?`
`03:08.47`	`Rocketman`	`Do you have volume issues with video in Orb, sometimes?`
`03:09.29`	`BigMac`	`Yes, it is very low`
`03:09.43`	`BigMac`	`I usually just pop in headphones, then it sounds fine`
`03:10.17`	`Rocketman`	`yeah, I have the volume at max most the time and can hardly hear it`
`03:10.55`	`BigMac`	`Rocketman: Yup, just plug in some headphones`
`03:11.26`	`Rocketman`	`...but I like my speakers!`
`03:11.58`	`BigMac`	`Rocketman: Ah, ok`
`03:13.42`	`Rocketman`	`I also get a "Video resolution not supported" message when using MicroB`
`03:14.04`	`yllus`	`That'll teach you.`
`03:14.07`	`Rocketman`	`I have to use Opera to get it to work`
`03:15.46`	`BigMac`	`So is there any headset support for the 770?`
`03:15.49`	`BigMac`	`wired or not`
`03:18.39`	`Blacksitox`	`bye`
`03:27.29`	`*** join/#maemo Blacksito (n=FuckYou@unaffiliated/blacksito)`
`03:35.39`	`*** join/#maemo pdz- (n=paul@135.14.169.217.in-addr.arpa)`
`03:39.33`	`Luria`	`can someone dcc me a smoke?`
`03:40.21`	`Blacksito`	`gcc on n800?`
`03:40.29`	`BigMac`	`DCC SEND LURIA_A_SMOKE_AND_A_LIGHTER`
`03:40.40`	`erstazi`	`Luria: pall mall 100?`
`03:40.41`	`BigMac`	`there ya go`
`03:40.43`	`*** join/#maemo JohnMeacham (n=JohnMeac@h-66-167-104-43.lsanca54.dynamic.covad.net)`
`03:40.45`	`*** join/#maemo straind (n=stupidpe@n080s062.bbr1.shentel.net)`
`03:41.20`	`Luria`	`ill take whatever`
`03:48.04`	`*** join/#maemo ryanfaerman (n=ryanfaer@crlspr-69.65.71.237.myacc.net)`
`04:01.30`	`Luria`	`wow the technician test is stupid easy. what happened to the circuit diagrams?`
`04:02.30`	`*** join/#maemo povbot (n=supybot@office.pov.lt)`
`04:15.43`	`*** join/#maemo Muz_ (n=moose@last.fm/staff/moose/Muz)`
`04:17.08`	`else58`	`Anybody know why ping is root only?`
`04:17.59`	`else58`	`I get "ping: permission denied. (are you root?)"`
`04:18.07`	`else58`	`and it works fine as root`
`04:22.18`	`*** join/#maemo rhys (n=rhys@adsl-75-60-201-65.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net)`
`04:23.43`	`Luria`	`you could add it to sudoers`
`04:23.50`	`Luria`	`or just su ping`
`04:28.03`	`else58`	`Thanks, will do.`
`04:30.19`	`*** join/#maemo rkaway1 (n=timj@e176222172.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`04:39.03`	`BigMac`	`So is there any headset support for the 770?`
`04:44.33`	`*** join/#maemo slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo)`
`04:44.42`	`*** join/#maemo philipl (i=philipl@c-76-21-109-3.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`04:48.21`	`Luria`	`hmm... this is actually one of the larger freenode channels. interesting.`
`04:50.20`	`*** join/#maemo netx (n=rlange@osiris.darkempire.org)`
`04:54.37`	`*** join/#maemo unique311 (n=stan@ool-457ae2a6.dyn.optonline.net)`
`04:59.13`	`*** join/#maemo vivijim (n=vivijim@201.32.145.37)`
`05:00.06`	`kreig`	`else58: ICMP packet creation usually requires root prics, that is why ping requires root. On many systems it is setuid root, or used to be back in the day`
`05:00.35`	`*** part/#maemo vivijim (n=vivijim@201.32.145.37)`
`05:03.28`	`*** join/#maemo netx (n=rlange@osiris.darkempire.org)`
`05:14.52`	`else58`	`kreig, strange, I've only seen ping flood restricted...`
`05:15.44`	`*** join/#maemo aloril (n=aloril@kaar72.airix.fi)`
`05:22.15`	`BigMac`	`So is there any headset support for the 770?`
`05:32.32`	`rik`	`hi all.`
`05:32.32`	`_Monkey`	`hi all. is, like, there a decent flickr mass uploader for the n800 ye`
`05:32.51`	`rik`	`_Monkey: status`
`05:32.52`	`_Monkey`	`Since Sat Aug 11 20:55:03 2007, there have been 747 modifications and 204 questions. I have been awake for 8 days, 9 hours, 35 minutes, 18 seconds this session, and currently reference 4135 factoids. Addressing is in optional mode.`
`05:33.05`	`rik`	`i thought so. i suspect that was one of my comments, too :(`
`05:33.10`	`rik`	`i know that the answer is no, so far.`
`05:33.18`	`rik`	`_Monkey: forget hi all.`
`05:33.19`	`_Monkey`	`rik, I didn't have anything matching hi all`
`05:34.34`	`rik`	`so, anyone know anything about canola, and the codecs it can use? lovely interface, but doesn't appear to be able to see any of my video files.on the other hand, mplayer, with its sucky interface, shows me my media and plays it. what's the deal with canola?`
`05:37.23`	`Luria`	`_Monkey, nokia?`
`05:37.24`	`_Monkey`	`nokia is in bed with all the large ones so anything Nokia releases they got to be carefull`
`05:38.15`	`Luria`	`i dunno who did that but it's so nonsensical to be absurd.`
`05:39.14`	`Luria`	`absurd = amusing`
`05:41.08`	`BigMac`	`So is there any headset support for the 770?`
`05:42.27`	`*** join/#maemo pleemans (n=peter@leemanpe.ugent.be)`
`05:44.39`	`timely`	`rik: hi all and friends are greetings`
`05:44.42`	`timely`	`they're a different module`
`05:44.46`	`rik`	`they are?`
`05:44.52`	`rik`	`well. that would make sense.`
`05:44.58`	`rik`	`what are the modules called? :)`
`05:46.00`	`timely`	`Luria: fwiw, I wouldn't call any of the betas "parts of chinook"`
`05:46.13`	`timely`	`that presumes you or someone else understands what chinook will be. and even I don't`
`05:46.44`	`Luria`	`we`
`05:47.06`	`timely`	`sparr: I haven't seen any testing of dist-upgrade, so I doubt it.`
`05:47.24`	`Luria`	`well, iirc, rtcomm describes itself that way`
`05:50.10`	`Luria`	`btw, timely, the password cleartext thing is a known microb bug, yes?`
`05:51.27`	`timely`	`_Monkey: literal pidgins`
`05:51.28`	`_Monkey`	`timely: pidgins =are= flying rats in NYC`
`05:52.04`	`pigeon`	`koo koo`
`05:52.32`	`rik`	`timely: what are the canola codec packages called? nothing obvious showed up in package manager when searching for canola.`
`05:52.44`	`Luria`	`damnflyingrats`
`05:54.07`	`pigeon`	`:(`
`05:54.11`	`Luria`	`oh... case in point: http://rtcomm.garage.maemo.org/`
`05:54.30`	`Luria`	`"This software will be officially included in maemo 4.0 Chinook release."`
`05:55.16`	`Luria`	`pigeon, why are you always lying around dead with your guts hanging out in central park?`
`05:55.48`	`pigeon`	`that wasn't me, i swear, that was just my clone...`
`05:56.00`	`timely`	`_Monkey: forget pidgins`
`05:56.00`	`_Monkey`	`timely: I forgot pidgins`
`05:56.09`	`timely`	`_Monkey: literal irc`
`05:56.10`	`_Monkey`	`timely: irc =is= only a couple of days old for me`
`05:56.14`	`timely`	`_Monkey: forget irc`
`05:56.15`	`_Monkey`	`timely: I forgot irc`
`05:56.29`	`*** join/#maemo aloril (n=aloril@kaar72.airix.fi)`
`05:56.33`	`timely`	`_Monkey: irc is Internet Relay Chat, http://irchelp.org, if you can see this message, you're using it.`
`05:56.34`	`_Monkey`	`OK, timely.`
`05:56.39`	`rik`	`lol`
`05:56.53`	`Luria`	`_Monkey, nokia?`
`05:56.53`	`_Monkey`	`i heard nokia was in bed with all the large ones so anything Nokia releases they got to be carefull`
`05:57.07`	`timely`	`_Monkey forget nokia`
`05:57.08`	`_Monkey`	`timely: I forgot nokia`
`05:57.40`	`Luria`	`what did that even mean?`
`05:57.50`	`timely`	`_Monkey Nokia is a company. It also sponsors maemo using sales of N800s. Buy one. Buy two!`
`05:57.51`	`_Monkey`	`OK, timely.`
`05:58.25`	`timely`	`Luria: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2007-07-07.log.html`
`05:58.30`	`timely`	`search for the string`
`05:58.51`	`timely`	`Charbax said it about 1/6th into the log`
`05:59.02`	`Luria`	`ok`
`05:59.10`	`Luria`	`re: what?`
`05:59.21`	`timely`	`"what did that ever mean"`
`05:59.29`	`Luria`	`ah`
`05:59.36`	`timely`	`_Monkey learns by passively listening`
`05:59.37`	`_Monkey`	`timely: i'm not following you...`
`05:59.41`	`timely`	`indeed`
`05:59.53`	`timely`	`95% of all knowledge in the bot should appear in this channel's log`
`06:00.09`	`timely`	`you can do private address in /query, which wouldn't appear in the log`
`06:00.47`	`timely`	`and you can do =~ s/x/y/ replacement which would mean the log wouldn't show exact matches to the resultant string. But most people don't`
`06:00.54`	`timely`	`heck, even I don't most of the time`
`06:04.12`	`Luria`	`er... timely, about that microb thing?`
`06:04.22`	`Luria`	`its a known bug?`
`06:05.42`	`timely`	`which?`
`06:06.33`	`timely`	`fwiw, I'm going to try to file bugs I know about into bugs.maemo so people won't have to ask me if I know about bugs :).`
`06:06.52`	`Luria`	`oh. go to a site, tap to enter your user name, hit tab on the keyboad to go to the password entry box (not tap)`
`06:07.18`	`Luria`	`it goes clear`
`06:07.26`	`timely`	`vkb or fkb?`
`06:07.41`	`Luria`	`fkb, and autocomplete`
`06:07.45`	`Luria`	`for vkb`
`06:07.53`	`Luria`	`go to gmail.com and try`
`06:08.09`	`timely`	`i need to go to work, we haven't shipped microb for 770 and that's all i have handy amt`
`06:08.12`	`timely`	`s/mt$/tm/`
`06:08.17`	`Luria`	`type in some random name with vkb and hit tab on the vkb`
`06:08.45`	`Luria`	`ive been trying to find someone to replicate this, but no one listens to me :-(`
`06:08.54`	`timely`	`o`
`06:09.00`	`timely`	`i'll be at work in ~20mins`
`06:11.01`	`Luria`	`its really a vkb problem, but if you switch from vkb to fkb, the text is displayed`
`06:11.28`	`timely`	`anyway. i'm off, i'll grab a device at work and have you guide me through steps`
`06:11.41`	`Luria`	`sure`
`06:11.42`	`timely`	`btw, does: data:text/html,<input><input type=password>`
`06:11.46`	`timely`	`work as a testcase?`
`06:11.54`	`timely`	`it's preferred over something annoying like gmail`
`06:12.12`	`Luria`	`i just noticed it`
`06:13.00`	`Luria`	`i assume its because the tap registers in a non hidden field and then never checks again b/c a keypress shifts the input field`
`06:13.11`	`Luria`	`rather than another tap`
`06:13.29`	`timely`	`heh, great`
`06:14.16`	`Luria`	`so the text is starred in the field, but the password displays on the bottom of the screen :-(`
`06:14.30`	`Luria`	`under the vkb, of course`
`06:15.26`	`*** join/#maemo NetBlade (n=osku@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net)`
`06:15.45`	`Luria`	`.8-3, btw`
`06:31.40`	`BigMac`	`So is there any headset support for the 770?`
`06:35.54`	`keesj`	`Hi`
`06:36.49`	`sparr`	`its so sad that dist-upgrade doesnt just work`
`06:37.32`	`*** join/#maemo Sulis_ (n=syrinx@87.114.133.212.plusnet.thn-ag1.dyn.plus.net)`
`06:42.15`	`timeless`	`luria: ok, i'm at work`
`06:42.23`	`timeless`	`i'm /slowly/ trying to install microb`
`06:42.30`	`timeless`	`looks like i get to file bugs as i go`
`06:42.42`	`timeless`	`each bug takes 10mins minimum to file, this may take a while`
`06:45.04`	`*** join/#maemo melmoth (n=melmoth@did75-18-88-171-132-204.fbx.proxad.net)`
`06:46.20`	`Luria`	`i understand`
`06:46.50`	`BigMac`	`I find it hard to believe nobody has any idea if headsets work...`
`06:48.44`	`Luria`	`dont have a 770, and most of the channel is asleep`
`06:49.37`	`rik`	`gah. i uninstalled canola to reinstall, because i don't remember rebooting. now it won't reinstall. about 3/4 of the way in it stop with "cannot install canola"`
`06:53.30`	`*** join/#maemo zaferna (n=zaferna@c-24-18-157-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)`
`06:53.52`	`Luria`	`i like ukmp`
`06:53.59`	`BigMac`	`Luria: I have been asking for most of the day`
`06:54.17`	`sparr`	`i have a 770`
`06:54.22`	`sparr`	`and i have no idea if headsets work`
`06:54.31`	`sparr`	`by which i assume you mean bluetooth headsets`
`06:54.41`	`sparr`	`rik: install from a console`
`06:54.41`	`BigMac`	`I have been asking since 11 at the least`
`06:54.55`	`BigMac`	`or if there is a wired alternative`
`06:55.04`	`BigMac`	`I don't really care, I just need a headset for gizmo`
`06:55.39`	`kulve`	`BigMac: afaik, at least no bt headset support`
`06:56.21`	`BigMac`	`kulve: But ebay has headsets for the 770 supposedly`
`06:57.03`	`kulve`	`ok`
`06:57.40`	`BigMac`	`so I am not sure which to go by`
`06:57.46`	`*** join/#maemo zaferna (n=zaferna@c-24-18-157-51.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)`
`07:01.58`	`Luria`	`timeless, im about to head off to sleep... you see what i was talking about?`
`07:03.11`	`*** join/#maemo tank17 (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-423be799c914c715)`
`07:03.59`	`kulve`	`BigMac: have you found any article/blog/whatever with google saying that the bt headset works?`
`07:06.10`	`BigMac`	`Nope, not of the few I have seen`
`07:09.37`	`*** join/#maemo kabtoffe (n=kbergstr@hoas-fe2add00-192.dhcp.inet.fi)`
`07:13.50`	`*** join/#maemo sp3000 (n=tt@hoasb-ff0ddd00-250.dhcp.inet.fi)`
`07:21.06`	`Luria`	`ah, how you do manage glib and deeply insightful at the same time.`
`07:25.30`	`*** join/#maemo guardian (n=Guardian@mar44-1-87-90-32-28.dsl.club-internet.fr)`
`07:26.30`	`*** join/#maemo bilboed (n=bilboed@pdpc/supporter/active/bilboed)`
`07:26.48`	`*** join/#maemo smok (n=richard@629953232P001.rain.fr)`
`07:26.49`	`*** join/#maemo netx (n=rlange@osiris.darkempire.org)`
`07:27.59`	`timeless`	`luria: sorry, got stuck w/ a more pressing problem`
`07:28.51`	`Luria`	`np`
`07:29.03`	`*** join/#maemo sKaBoy (n=luogni@host57-218-static.90-82-b.business.telecomitalia.it)`
`07:30.15`	`rik`	`bah.`
`07:30.15`	`rik`	`so my issue is:`
`07:30.15`	`rik`	chage: can't open shadow password fileStopped: `/usr/bin/chage -M 99999 avahi' returned error code 1. Exiting.
`07:31.04`	`rik`	`that's while installing avahi as part of canola.`
`07:31.04`	`rik`	`not sure what could cause it though. i'm too much of a newbie.`
`07:35.38`	`*** join/#maemo greentux (n=lemke@ip-217-18-177-19.static.reverse.dsi.net)`
`07:37.20`	`*** join/#maemo bergie (n=bergie@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net)`
`07:41.45`	`*** join/#maemo saerdnaer (n=andi@p5B07B16C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`07:46.59`	`*** join/#maemo senuxis (n=olatunji@5ac719f3.bb.sky.com)`
`08:01.00`	`*** join/#maemo pleemans (n=peter@leemanpe.ugent.be)`
`08:07.03`	`*** join/#maemo AD-N770 (i=jep@nat/fluendo/x-46a26a186a0d1550)`
`08:07.53`	`AD-N770`	`good morning`
`08:11.51`	`*** join/#maemo jhe (n=jhedberg@vipunen.hut.fi)`
`08:12.53`	`timeless`	`mn #dreamhost yet another pastebin??`
`08:26.42`	`*** join/#maemo Yamazaki-kun (n=bsa3@212.183.134.208)`
`08:32.58`	`*** join/#maemo mk8 (n=mk8@ip-212-138.sn1.eutelia.it)`
`08:33.01`	`mk8`	`Hi to all`
`08:34.23`	`guardian`	`hi maemo`
`08:34.40`	`*** join/#maemo AD-N770 (i=jep@nat/fluendo/x-16888f4c1f015a53)`
`08:34.45`	`timeless`	`Description: MicroB engine for OSSO browser`
`08:34.46`	`timeless`	`<PROTECTED>`
`08:34.46`	`timeless`	`<PROTECTED>`
`08:34.46`	`timeless`	`<PROTECTED>`
`08:34.46`	`timeless`	`<PROTECTED>`
`08:34.46`	`timeless`	`<PROTECTED>`
`08:34.48`	`timeless`	`<PROTECTED>`
`08:34.50`	`timeless`	`<PROTECTED>`
`08:34.52`	`timeless`	`how bad does that sound?`
`08:35.13`	`AD-N770`	`good morning`
`08:38.27`	`*** join/#maemo kabtoffe (n=kbergstr@hoas-fe2add00-192.dhcp.inet.fi)`
`08:38.54`	`timeless`	`Description: MicroB engine for OSSO browser`
`08:38.55`	`timeless`	`<PROTECTED>`
`08:38.55`	`timeless`	`<PROTECTED>`
`08:38.55`	`timeless`	`<PROTECTED>`
`08:38.55`	`timeless`	`<PROTECTED>`
`08:38.55`	`timeless`	`<PROTECTED>`
`08:38.57`	`timeless`	`<PROTECTED>`
`08:38.59`	`timeless`	`<PROTECTED>`
`08:39.01`	`timeless`	`<PROTECTED>`
`08:39.03`	`timeless`	`<PROTECTED>`
`08:40.22`	`*** join/#maemo VRe (n=vre@vre.iki.fi)`
`08:42.42`	`keesj`	`:P not me ;P`
`08:42.52`	`timeless`	`Description: MicroB engine for OSSO browser`
`08:42.52`	`timeless`	`<PROTECTED>`
`08:42.53`	`timeless`	`<PROTECTED>`
`08:42.53`	`timeless`	`<PROTECTED>`
`08:42.53`	`timeless`	`<PROTECTED>`
`08:42.53`	`timeless`	`<PROTECTED>`
`08:42.55`	`timeless`	`<PROTECTED>`
`08:42.57`	`timeless`	`<PROTECTED>`
`08:42.59`	`timeless`	`<PROTECTED>`
`08:43.01`	`timeless`	`<PROTECTED>`
`08:43.03`	`timeless`	`is what i've settled on`
`08:43.08`	`keesj`	`btw I solved my browser not working issue by removing the .browser file`
`08:43.25`	`timeless`	`people w// objections should speak now, or hold their peace for at least one release`
`08:43.30`	`timeless`	`keesj: interesting`
`08:45.49`	`*** join/#maemo kabtoffe (n=kbergstr@hoas-fe2add00-192.dhcp.inet.fi)`
`08:46.36`	`keesj`	`one I saw it worked I tried to find out what was wrong with the .browser file. the problem is that I have lost it by now :( , I think there where lines like browser=opera and some storage location /media/mmc2 . I do have a codedump + log message but I guess thats of no use :(`
`08:47.30`	`timeless`	`coredump?`
`08:47.39`	`timeless`	`theoretically i can get someone to investigate those`
`08:47.55`	`timeless`	`however, we're not spending any time on opera`
`08:48.09`	`timeless`	`so if it was an opera related crash, i mostly have deaf ears available`
`08:48.11`	`timeless`	`sorry :)`
`08:48.13`	`*** join/#maemo ssvb (n=ssvb@vbaltd.vba.com.by)`
`08:48.23`	`keesj`	`I don't think I was using opera, at least I was not trying :p`
`08:48.58`	`timeless`	`heh`
`08:49.23`	`*** join/#maemo greentux (n=lemke@ip-217-18-181-130.static.reverse.dsi.net)`
`08:49.27`	`timeless`	`well, provide a url and i'll find someone to look. log + coredump is best if you have`
`08:49.41`	`keesj`	`here http://www.keesj.dds.nl/core-dumps/`
`08:50.29`	`timeless`	`message shared..`
`08:50.43`	`timeless`	`2. configure and enable wifi access to the internet`
`08:50.53`	`timeless`	`that step isn't as easy to do as it was to write into my bug report`
`08:55.57`	`rik`	`hm. i wonder why avahi is failing to install`
`09:04.39`	`keesj`	`timeless: I managed to "recover" the .browser file. now when I try to reproducs the bug the .browser file gets overridden any tips to prevent that?`
`09:06.07`	`*** join/#maemo florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69)`
`09:06.22`	`keesj`	`ok if I boot and copy the .browser file over the existing and start my browser I get the internal error. Appication 'Web' closed`
`09:06.50`	`keesj`	`this is my file when it fails , perhaps something is running out ot sync? http://www.keesj.dds.nl/core-dumps/bowser_fails`
`09:07.50`	`timeless`	`well, w/ engine=opera, i'd assume that it's loading opera`
`09:07.58`	`timeless`	`strace -f would tell`
`09:08.03`	`*** join/#maemo saerdnaer2 (n=andi@p5B07B16C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`09:08.22`	`*** join/#maemo kabtoffe (n=kbergstr@hoas-fe2add00-192.dhcp.inet.fi)`
`09:12.10`	`*** join/#maemo VRe (n=vre@vre.iki.fi)`
`09:12.41`	`keesj`	`any I am very happy it works! and having a good open-source browser in the embeded world was really a missing link!`
`09:13.04`	`timeless`	`oh, detail`
`09:13.11`	`timeless`	`when the browser quits, it overwrites .browser`
`09:13.20`	`timeless`	`so never try to change the file while it's running :)`
`09:14.11`	`*** join/#maemo saerdnaer2 (n=andi@p5B07B16C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`09:17.38`	`keesj`	`can't touch this la la la la. the ajax drag-drop demo page crashes on me :p`
`09:18.30`	`timeless`	`someone complained about that`
`09:18.40`	`timeless`	`lemme file my bug about application manager sucking first`
`09:19.01`	`timeless`	`oh, doh`
`09:19.05`	`timeless`	`no wonder this didn't work`
`09:25.00`	`timeless`	`https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1863 in case people were curious`
`09:28.19`	`*** join/#maemo Gigabites (i=Gigabite@c-24-7-75-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`09:42.19`	`*** join/#maemo greentux (n=lemke@ip-217-18-177-19.static.reverse.dsi.net)`
`09:52.08`	`*** join/#maemo NetBlade (n=osku@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net)`
`09:52.16`	`timeless`	`fwiw, the first stack you gave was a crash in opera`
`10:12.09`	`*** join/#maemo oil (n=oil@ppp-124.120.10.117.revip2.asianet.co.th)`
`10:14.44`	`*** join/#maemo nnod (n=nnod@129.194.71.124)`
`10:18.31`	`*** join/#maemo red-zack (n=mk@p5B044314.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`10:32.32`	`*** join/#maemo senuxis (n=olatunji@5ac719f3.bb.sky.com)`
`10:52.03`	`*** join/#maemo florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69)`
`10:52.03`	`*** join/#maemo bergie (n=bergie@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.03`	`*** join/#maemo Luria (n=ibnNagre@207-237-220-85.c3-0.80w-ubr16.nyr-80w.ny.cable.rcn.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.03`	`*** join/#maemo svu (n=svu@89.101.232.199) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.03`	`*** join/#maemo javamaniac (n=gerardo@pwnd.gerardo.com.ve) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.03`	`*** join/#maemo amr (n=amr@cpc3-leed7-0-0-cust755.leed.cable.ntl.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.04`	`*** join/#maemo lle2 (n=lleukkun@vipunen.hut.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.04`	`*** join/#maemo GeneralAntilles (n=GeneralA@68.200.13.208) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.04`	`*** join/#maemo vmarks (n=vmarks@cpe-069-134-131-077.nc.res.rr.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.04`	`*** join/#maemo jkyro (n=jasu@cs181090066.pp.htv.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.04`	`*** join/#maemo Silicium (n=marco@2001:1620:2003:1:1:0:0:1) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.04`	`*** join/#maemo vol (n=shaun@cpe-74-76-187-153.nycap.res.rr.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.04`	`*** join/#maemo mikian (n=mikian@kota.fidisk.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.04`	`*** join/#maemo nslu2-log (n=nslu2-lo@nslu2-linux/dyoung) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.04`	`*** join/#maemo milhouse (n=irc_milh@dsl-217-155-26-150.zen.co.uk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.04`	`*** join/#maemo solmumaha (n=ukki@mikkeli.wsoy.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.04`	`*** join/#maemo MikaT (i=mtapoja@projects.sse.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.04`	`*** join/#maemo Firehand (i=adrian@port-212-202-69-199.static.qsc.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.04`	`*** join/#maemo jait (i=jait@otitsun.oulu.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.04`	`*** join/#maemo Zenton (n=vicente@212.166.192.135) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.04`	`*** join/#maemo toi (n=pleemans@d5152D3B4.access.telenet.be)`
`10:52.04`	`*** join/#maemo veli (i=veli@smooth.piipiip.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.04`	`*** join/#maemo _Monkey (n=_Monkey@dsl-217-155-26-150.zen.co.uk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.04`	`*** join/#maemo inz (i=inz@maemo-hackers.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.04`	`*** join/#maemo tigert (n=tigert@nblzone-208-37.nblnetworks.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.04`	`*** join/#maemo gla55_ (i=glass@puistokemistit.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.05`	`*** join/#maemo orakle (i=orakle@siteops.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.05`	`*** join/#maemo dev (n=dev@master.netzflocken.de)`
`10:52.05`	`*** join/#maemo Phil770_ (n=pveale@another.domain.name) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.05`	`*** join/#maemo protocol_ (i=muhammai@shell.evtek.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.05`	`*** join/#maemo [mbm] (i=mbm@openwrt/developer/mbm) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.05`	`*** join/#maemo kaatis_ (i=jkataja@nat/movial/x-91976ed482c636e0) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.05`	`*** join/#maemo gw280 (n=george@vm.gwright.org.uk)`
`10:52.05`	`*** join/#maemo zorrolero (n=zorroler@85.88.5.125) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.05`	`*** join/#maemo jumpula (i=jussi@smooth.piipiip.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.05`	*** join/#maemo `0660 (i=nevalaio@mustatilhi.cs.tut.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
`10:52.05`	`*** join/#maemo cy- (n=cy@208.69.76.73) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.05`	`*** join/#maemo Sparrow- (n=sparrow@mushroom.yok.utu.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.05`	`*** join/#maemo lnx^ (i=lnx@zux.sjr.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.05`	`*** join/#maemo vesa (n=vesku@net29.projectcast.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.05`	`*** join/#maemo plr_ (i=juhali@shell.evtek.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.05`	`*** join/#maemo Gathaja (i=oikarinr@lehtori.cc.tut.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.05`	`*** join/#maemo pyhimys (n=kytomaki@v6.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.05`	`*** join/#maemo hallu_ (n=hallu@bgran.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.05`	`*** join/#maemo lool (i=lool@debian/developer/lool) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.06`	`*** join/#maemo Enok (i=pellikkm@amadeus.cc.tut.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:52.06`	`*** join/#maemo RP (i=1000@tim.rpsys.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:56.25`	`*** join/#maemo Silicium (n=marco@2001:1620:2003:1:1:0:0:1)`
`10:56.40`	`*** join/#maemo jhe_ (n=jhedberg@vipunen.hut.fi)`
`11:00.24`	`*** join/#maemo giga (i=Gigabite@c-24-7-75-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`11:07.46`	`*** join/#maemo zwnj (n=behnam@193.189.122.196)`
`11:11.56`	`*** join/#maemo pleemans (n=peter@leemanpe.ugent.be)`
`11:13.00`	`*** join/#maemo Sho_ (i=ehs1@kde/hein)`
`11:25.23`	`*** join/#maemo oil (n=oil@ppp-124.120.10.117.revip2.asianet.co.th)`
`11:27.29`	`*** join/#maemo ryanfaerman (n=ryanfaer@crlspr-69.65.71.237.myacc.net)`
`13:05.02`	`*** join/#maemo infobot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)`
`13:05.02`	`*** topic/#maemo is maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets \| Good questions deserve better answers \| irc logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ \| https://garage.maemo.org/projects/os2007on770/ \| http://maemo.org/news/ login and fav!`
`13:05.02`	`kulve`	`_Monkey: forget kulve`
`13:05.03`	`_Monkey`	`kulve: I forgot kulve`
`13:05.14`	`kulve`	`kulve?`
`13:05.19`	`kulve`	`\o/`
`13:05.34`	`timeless`	`why'd you do that?`
`13:05.37`	`Cyorxamp`	`Another question :D The zaurus came with a nice linux OS - then people didn't like it and made a boat load of branches off it and even total reworks`
`13:05.52`	`Cyorxamp`	`Since you lot are the community and support the official`
`13:05.58`	`kulve`	`timeless: because it was throwing .. stuff .. at me..`
`13:06.00`	`Cyorxamp`	`Will there be other distro's ?`
`13:06.09`	`timeless`	`kulve is <reply>`
`13:06.21`	`timeless`	`kulve: but it'll learn the next thing someone says about you`
`13:06.35`	`timeless`	`_monkey: kulve is helpful`
`13:06.36`	`_Monkey`	`...but kulve is <reply>...`
`13:06.41`	`kulve`	`;)`
`13:06.52`	`timeless`	`if you want it to shut up, that's how`
`13:06.55`	`pupnik_`	`kulve?`
`13:07.14`	`pupnik_`	`nice - Cyorxamp yes, openrox and kde are being experimented with`
`13:07.24`	`lardman`	`kulve: If you look at example test8, it does appear that each task runs to completion, then the next one with the highest priority is run`
`13:07.37`	`Cyorxamp`	`KDE just a desktop enviro tho`
`13:07.42`	`pupnik_`	`althouth 'distro' doesn't really apply`
`13:07.53`	`kulve`	`lardman: I can run dsp src & dsp sinks at the same time`
`13:07.56`	`Cyorxamp`	`so just different interfaces for same OS?`
`13:08.14`	`lardman`	`kulve: Yes, because they are probably fifo ordered`
`13:08.32`	`kulve`	`lardman: and there is some audio prosessing tasks too running, so there are usually several tasks running at the same time ("simultaneously")`
`13:08.55`	`lardman`	`kulve: Do your tasks ever block and wait for something ?`
`13:08.58`	`Cyorxamp`	`pupnik_ ?`
`13:08.59`	`_Monkey`	`i guess pupnik_ is right, you can use a proxy to get rid of the error messages`
`13:09.04`	`*** join/#maemo vivijim (n=vivijim@200.184.118.132)`
`13:09.12`	`timeless`	`_monkey forget pupnik_`
`13:09.13`	`_Monkey`	`timeless: I forgot pupnik_`
`13:09.15`	`pupnik_`	`Cyorxamp: i think they come as a full rootfs`
`13:09.23`	`timeless`	`_monkey pupnik_ is <reply>`
`13:09.24`	`_Monkey`	`OK, timeless.`
`13:09.53`	`Cyorxamp`	`ok ... why would anyone want to! ?`
`13:09.54`	`pupnik`	`_monkey pupnik is <reply>`
`13:09.56`	`_Monkey`	`...but pupnik is here...`
`13:10.11`	`pupnik`	`_Monkey forget pupnik`
`13:10.13`	`_Monkey`	`pupnik: I forgot pupnik`
`13:10.21`	`pupnik`	`_Monkey pupnik is <reply>`
`13:10.23`	`_Monkey`	`OK, pupnik.`
`13:10.33`	`pupnik`	`Cyorxamp: to experiment and play`
`13:11.00`	`Cyorxamp`	`is maemo true debian, i.e 'apt-get' fun etc... ?`
`13:11.10`	`timeless`	`yes`
`13:11.16`	`timeless`	`apt-get breakworld`
`13:11.23`	`Cyorxamp`	`do you see maemo becoming more than just for Nokias purposes`
`13:11.25`	`pupnik`	`it uses apt, it's not official debian though`
`13:11.37`	`pupnik`	`yes new devices are coming based off maemo`
`13:11.50`	`Cyorxamp`	`non-nokia!? :D`
`13:11.52`	`kulve`	`lardman: no. It just asks for next buffer and then the function is exited`
`13:12.06`	`pupnik`	`yes, 'intel MID'`
`13:12.17`	`kulve`	`and it works for 30-90 secs before jamming..`
`13:12.39`	`lardman`	`kulve: When it asks for the next buffer and stops processing, a mailbox request is passed to ARM, then once filled back to the DSP to add to the queue`
`13:12.47`	`Cyorxamp`	`ok if nokia N800 comes with 'Internet Tablet 2007' - if the N800 came as a blank slate, what would you put on it? 'Maemo' ?`
`13:12.49`	`*** join/#maemo ryanfaerman (n=ryanfaer@adsl-153-24-66.mia.bellsouth.net)`
`13:13.04`	`lardman`	`kulve: At that point, the next task in the queue will be handled, rather than the one that just made the request`
`13:13.05`	`Cyorxamp`	`i.e. can they be seen as two different OS's? i.e. one that is proprietary and one that is not`
`13:13.18`	`*** join/#maemo sully (i=sully@CPE00508d7bbe5b-CM00159a07f436.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`13:13.18`	`kulve`	`Cyorxamp: not really`
`13:13.19`	`Jaffa`	`pupnik: No, the MID devices aren't using Maemo, they're based on Red Flag Linux. They are, however, using the Hildon Desktop (the most visible part of Maemo)`
`13:13.29`	`pupnik`	`Jaffa: ok thanks for the correction`
`13:13.42`	`Cyorxamp`	`kulve: the IT comes with a multitude of things that are not in the spirit of debian or GNU/Linux`
`13:13.57`	`kulve`	`true`
`13:14.08`	`kulve`	`but you need some closed source stuff to get it running.. :/`
`13:14.15`	`kulve`	`maemo is just a community`
`13:14.24`	`Cyorxamp`	`mp3 ability, google talk, skype, etc...`
`13:14.34`	`kulve`	`lardman: yes`
`13:14.37`	`Cyorxamp`	`So theres no alternative 'Free' OS?`
`13:14.49`	`kulve`	`Cyorxamp: hmm..`
`13:14.57`	`Cyorxamp`	`like IT is the RedHat and Maemo is the Fedora`
`13:15.07`	`*** join/#maemo Protocol- (n=Protocol@protocol.be)`
`13:15.21`	`kulve`	`I think you can't get e.g. wlan working without the closed source binary driver`
`13:15.58`	`Cyorxamp`	`So theres a good chance that just like the original Zaurus 'ROM' got abandoned when Sharp moved on - this will be too`
`13:16.00`	`lardman`	`kulve: I'm looking at how to get a vorbis callback for more file data to be able to return immediately, as the code expects`
`13:16.36`	`lardman`	`Cyorxamp: Nokia do actually give updates, which is a lot more than Sharp did`
`13:16.44`	`Jaffa`	`Cyorxamp: there are installable images of GPE, Poky and Angstrom which are "alternative" free OSes. There are varying degrees of success here as no-one's felt the need to work around some of the still-closed bits.`
`13:16.57`	`kulve`	`Cyorxamp: they are even going to publish new hacker update for 770..`
`13:17.16`	`Cyorxamp`	`Well OpenZaurus (basically Angstom) is what I use on my zaurus now`
`13:17.33`	`Cyorxamp`	`since the original Sharp OS is abandoned`
`13:18.20`	`Cyorxamp`	`Nokia seems intent on keeping a strong grip then given the closed bits`
`13:18.42`	`Jaffa`	`Of course, Nokia could pull the plug on future updates or go bust (!) - then the community will have an incentive to produce a fully open OS. Currently, there's no real desire, except on the fringes, so no effort.`
`13:18.47`	`lardman`	`Cyorxamp: If Sharp had released a more modern kernel (and updates, etc.), then the OS development may not have proceeded so fast`
`13:19.09`	`Jaffa`	`Cyorxamp: I don't think it's strategic. It's just inertia. Most of Nokia management still don't "get" OSS.`
`13:19.10`	`Cyorxamp`	`Seems convenient, we get a Linux PDA that _actually_ works and is moden.... in return! Nokia get a community to do the development for free for them`
`13:20.15`	`Cyorxamp`	`something just smells a bit off`
`13:20.20`	`pupnik`	`lardman and jaffa said it best`
`13:20.42`	`lardman`	`kulve: Semaphores may be the answer to my problems`
`13:20.49`	`Jaffa`	`Nokia currently aren't getting any development done for free either (one of the problems, TBH)`
`13:20.50`	`Cyorxamp`	`I've been burned twice now... one by HP for dropping the Jornada range when I bought their latest PDA/Phone... and then Sharp for ditching things and going back to Japan`
`13:21.10`	`lardman`	`Cyorxamp: Which model do you have?`
`13:21.12`	`Cyorxamp`	`I doub't nokia paid for (example) Pidgin to be ported`
`13:21.17`	`kulve`	`lardman: sounds like a deadlock ;)`
`13:21.19`	`pupnik`	`buying a product doesn't mean 'free upgrades for life'`
`13:21.25`	`Cyorxamp`	`lardman: Jornada was a 928, Zaurus is a SL-5500`
`13:21.33`	`lardman`	`kulve: I'll have to be careful :)`
`13:21.37`	`Jaffa`	`Cyorxamp: no, but neither did Ubuntu or Microsoft (other OSes I use Pidgin), so I don't see the point.`
`13:21.47`	`lardman`	`Cyorxamp: Ah, so an old one then. I have one of those too`
`13:22.33`	`Jaffa`	`The 770/N800 are the most open pocketable Linux devices money can buy. Nokia aren't showing any signs of taking their ball away entirely, although opening up the OS2007on770 development so more people can get involved would be handy.`
`13:22.39`	`Cyorxamp`	`Ok, last thing on this point... A bit of a hands up jobby - Who thinks Nokia will continue there 'Linux' efforts enough to start replacing what would normally be symbian ?`
`13:22.39`	`lardman`	`kulve: Take a look at this: http://www.des.udc.es/~escudero/docencia/str/TSK_Scheduling.pdf`
`13:23.05`	`lardman`	`It will take some considerable time for that to ever happen`
`13:23.17`	`Cyorxamp`	`what I said u mean?`
`13:23.21`	`lardman`	`yes`
`13:23.22`	`Jaffa`	`And such disparate parts of the business...`
`13:23.39`	`lardman`	`They have a large investment (people, time, money - part ownership) in Symbian`
`13:23.40`	`Jaffa`	`I wouldn't bet on it in the next 3 years (i.e. short term). Longer term... dunno.`
`13:23.54`	`kulve`	`lardman: looks interesting. I'll need to read that later, now I'm off`
`13:24.02`	`lardman`	`kulve: Ok, one thing to add`
`13:24.09`	`kulve`	`yes`
`13:24.13`	`lardman`	`kulve: tsk_yield() may implement time slicing`
`13:24.14`	`Cyorxamp`	`My bet is on the N800 going to the dump in years to come`
`13:24.26`	`Cyorxamp`	`But unfortunately its the best going at the moment`
`13:24.28`	`lardman`	`kulve: from the kernel side, so I may be wrong about tasks running to completion`
`13:25.13`	`Jaffa`	`Cyorxamp: years? perhaps. But years is a long time in IT ;)`
`13:25.14`	`kulve`	`lardman: ok, that may help with the tremor case.. Maybe I need to check that tremor stuff too, since my speex isn't making progress now..`
`13:25.31`	`lardman`	`kulve: let me know what issues you're having later on`
`13:25.39`	`Cyorxamp`	`ok another question!! :P , Nokia has said that for stereo bluetooth headsets to work... the device needs to support the AD-2P profile but the E65 / N800 doesn't - any ideas on if the N800 ever will, is this another kernel level thing?`
`13:25.40`	`kulve`	`with tremor?`
`13:25.45`	`kulve`	`lardman: or with speex?`
`13:25.46`	`lardman`	`with Speex`
`13:25.58`	`kulve`	`I posted them to dspgw mailing list..`
`13:26.17`	`lardman`	`hmm, that list is full of spam, I'll see if I can find your post`
`13:26.37`	`lardman`	`or perhaps I'm thinking of the Ti Linux tools list...?`
`13:26.41`	`kulve`	`well, I haven't received yet anything from there but my posts and replies to it..`
`13:26.43`	`Jaffa`	`Cyorxamp: there is third party support for A2DP (i.e. Bluetooth stereo headphones), but it is more CPU intensive as it doesn't use the DSP. There is a pretty GUI for it though.`
`13:26.48`	`Jaffa`	`_Monkey: tell Cyorxamp about Kagu`
`13:27.06`	`Cyorxamp`	`the media player?`
`13:27.08`	`_Monkey`	`the media player is sooo shit!`
`13:27.20`	`Jaffa`	`_Monkey: forget the media player`
`13:27.20`	`_Monkey`	`Jaffa: I forgot media player`
`13:27.23`	`lardman`	`I'm planning on looking at a2dp on the DSP - I just bought a headset for testing`
`13:27.29`	`Jaffa`	`lardman: cool`
`13:27.34`	`Cyorxamp`	`how very iPhone`
`13:27.51`	`Jaffa`	`I've got headphones too. Not tried them yet as they were delivered to my office and I'm on holiday for a week :-/`
`13:27.54`	`lardman`	`Jaffa: But it will be ARM->DSP->ARM as I don't know how to access the BT chip from the DSP side`
`13:27.59`	`*** join/#maemo Ryback_ (n=ulisses@200.184.118.132)`
`13:28.08`	`Jaffa`	`lardman: if it's even possible to...`
`13:28.19`	`lardman`	`Jaffa: I found the tempo of the music varied quite alot, sounds pretty rubbish`
`13:28.19`	`Cyorxamp`	`so eventually it'll get supported?`
`13:28.28`	`*** join/#maemo andrunko (n=andrunko@200.184.118.132)`
`13:28.31`	`lardman`	`Jaffa: I hope it's bg load that caused that`
`13:28.40`	`Cyorxamp`	`I rang Nokia and they said the E65 may get an update in time to support A2DP`
`13:28.42`	`lardman`	`Cyorxamp: It's on Nokia's ToDo list`
`13:28.47`	`Cyorxamp`	`but he couldn't comment on the N800`
`13:28.51`	`Cyorxamp`	`ok`
`13:29.12`	`Jaffa`	`Cyorxamp: no, not "eventually". It works now. It's also on Nokia's roadmap for proper support.`
`13:29.40`	`Cyorxamp`	`umm, the headset for the N800 - its a mic/speaker yeah for voip? does it have a button for accept/reject calls?`
`13:30.45`	`lardman`	`Cyorxamp: yes`
`13:31.09`	`Cyorxamp`	`but can't be used on a normal nokia as its a normal 3 channel jack 3.5mm mic/speak jack?`
`13:31.25`	`Jaffa`	`correct`
`13:31.30`	`Cyorxamp`	`aghahG! :D`
`13:31.43`	`Cyorxamp`	`I've seen converters but I don't know if they carry the mic or not`
`13:31.46`	`Jaffa`	`Unusual to moan that the headset connector is too standard ;-)`
`13:31.55`	`Cyorxamp`	`lol`
`13:32.02`	`*** join/#maemo bldewolf (n=noplzlol@cpe-76-171-52-203.socal.res.rr.com)`
`13:32.17`	`Cyorxamp`	`POP port > 3.5mm - if it carried the mic i'd be cool`
`13:34.01`	`Cyorxamp`	`http://www.datakits.co.uk/store/35mm-stereo-audio-adapter-microphone-nokia-6230i-6680-n80-n70-p-952.html`
`13:34.04`	`Cyorxamp`	`yay :D`
`13:34.25`	`Cyorxamp`	`a dongle that converts POP to 3.5mm but adds a mic and a button on the dongle`
`13:38.43`	`*** join/#maemo \|tbb\| (n=user@dslb-084-056-142-225.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`13:43.32`	`*** join/#maemo Molagi (i=samurai@a88-112-4-196.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`13:46.01`	`*** join/#maemo adoyle (n=adoyle@static-72-74-246-2.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)`
`13:46.45`	`disq`	`"What's the problem with the way a pirate speaks? - Arrrrticulation!"`
`13:47.40`	`*** join/#maemo kupesoft (n=dave@red-gw.cs.toronto.edu)`
`13:47.53`	`kupesoft`	`So what's the status of usb host mode for the n800. Any links?`
`13:48.04`	`*** join/#maemo kabtoffe (n=kbergstr@hoas-fe2add00-192.dhcp.inet.fi)`
`13:49.02`	`*** join/#maemo renatofilho_ (n=renato@200.184.118.132)`
`13:50.07`	`Cyorxamp`	`Bought :D`
`13:50.24`	`Cyorxamp`	`Everyone have a party on me, I've bought one - I'll get it Wednesday`
`13:50.31`	`Cyorxamp`	`£250`
`13:50.34`	`sully`	`congrats!`
`13:51.06`	`disq`	`:)`
`13:51.15`	`Cyorxamp`	`Hopefully the nitty gritty techy geeky fun stuff won't be that dissimilar from the Zaurus`
`13:51.16`	`disq`	`hey sully, any luck with python/pygame/kagu?`
`13:51.54`	`sully`	`Haven't given it a try unfortunately, any feedback from the forums?`
`13:52.21`	`disq`	`all positive, your prob seems to be unique so far`
`13:52.28`	`sully`	`haha, that figures!`
`13:52.49`	`sully`	`well to be honest I don't have much use for it anyways, the 2GB is too limiting for music`
`13:53.09`	`sully`	`I just wanted to show off with it :o`
`13:53.15`	`disq`	`:/`
`13:53.29`	`sully`	`People lust my 770.`
`13:54.16`	`Cyorxamp`	`And the neat thing is, I've arranged with O2 (my mobile phone people) to go on contract with a Nokia E65 and the tarrif (for only £8.51) includes unlimited 3G data :P`
`13:54.41`	`Jaffa`	`Cyorxamp: nice.`
`13:54.41`	`Cyorxamp`	`Shame the N800 can't directly be 3G`
`13:54.44`	`disq`	`that's sexy`
`13:55.08`	`timeless`	`cyorxamp: imagine you're a sprint customer`
`13:55.11`	`Cyorxamp`	`Do you suppose the N800 will update to WiMax when it becomes popular?`
`13:55.20`	`timeless`	`you pay an extra $100 for an n800 that's 3g`
`13:55.31`	`timeless`	`and doesn't work on your wimax network`
`13:55.38`	`disq`	`they'll release a wimax version (i'm guessing early 2008)`
`13:55.52`	`timeless`	`better to buy a cheap 3g phone w/ bluetooth`
`13:56.00`	`Cyorxamp`	`Hang on Hang on!`
`13:56.06`	`Cyorxamp`	`Theres other editions of the N800 ?`
`13:56.10`	`Cyorxamp`	`Ones with 3G built in!?!`
`13:56.15`	`*** join/#maemo Sho_ (i=ehs1@dslb-088-073-011-134.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`13:56.19`	`timeless`	`there aren't`
`13:56.29`	`timeless`	`but i'm trying to explain why including 3g doesn't make sense`
`13:56.38`	`timeless`	`it adds cost, increases regulatory pains`
`13:56.42`	`timeless`	`and then doesn't work on the network you have`
`13:56.54`	`Cyorxamp`	`<timeless>> you pay an extra $100 for an n800 that's 3g`
`13:57.03`	`pupnik`	`*you would`
`13:57.34`	`Cyorxamp`	`hmm ok`
`13:57.47`	`timeless`	`there was an "imagine" line in there somewhere`
`13:57.59`	`Cyorxamp`	`Well when BT finishes the 21CN in the UK and WiMax is everywhere - it'll become the defacto over 3G for wireless national data access`
`13:58.32`	`Cyorxamp`	`Along with the death of the phone systems and going to all IP based`
`13:58.49`	`timeless`	`anyway, i really can't find a decent sprint announcement`
`13:58.51`	`timeless`	`http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS8069179684.html`
`13:58.52`	`timeless`	`perhaps`
`13:59.08`	`timeless`	`but yeah, there essentially will be what seems like an n800 w/ wimax`
`13:59.16`	`timeless`	`if i'm reading the announcements correctly`
`13:59.33`	`timeless`	`what a mess`
`13:59.42`	`timeless`	`cdma, gsm, wimax, wifi`
`14:00.05`	`Cyorxamp`	`so my current, just bought, will arrive wednesday - will be non-upgradable :( ?`
`14:00.28`	`lardman`	`back to work`
`14:01.38`	`Cyorxamp`	`also doesn't this N800 have hidden FM radio support ? :P`
`14:01.59`	`Cyorxamp`	`I read that somewhere ages back I think`
`14:03.12`	`Cyorxamp`	`timeless: ?`
`14:03.52`	`disq`	`i never understood british postal addresses. are the 4 letter combinations zip/area codes?`
`14:03.52`	`Cyorxamp`	`timeless: I wouldn't need gsm or cdma by that stage`
`14:04.21`	`Cyorxamp`	`3G mainly comes with a GSM tarriff these days... but I'd use it for the VoIP - the ulimately would be just a WiMax tarriff`
`14:04.48`	`Cyorxamp`	`and no phone <period>`
`14:05.24`	`*** join/#maemo k-s[WORK] (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132)`
`14:10.44`	`pupnik`	`I don't see the attraction of phones. They are these loud, annoying things that give people who want things from me universal access to my time.`
`14:12.17`	`dpb_`	`Then stop using phones. Easy solution.`
`14:12.29`	`Mikho`	`I love my phone`
`14:14.27`	`Jaffa`	`disq: Post codes (aka zip codes) are of the form: ABnn nCD. "AB" is the code for the area, which is broken down in sub-divisions. e.g. "CV21-23" is Rugby. The last bit is then generally a street within the area, i.e. "7RB" is my street.`
`14:15.10`	`disq`	`ah. thanks for the explanation :)`
`14:16.38`	`*** join/#maemo garrett (i=garrett@nat/novell/x-5bdf44ea8f097ace)`
`14:17.18`	`*** join/#maemo Cyorxamp (n=Cyorxamp@212.57.229.111)`
`14:17.29`	`disq`	`Jaffa: so it's actually ABnn-nn nCD?`
`14:18.31`	`disq`	`ah, CV21 to 23, ok`
`14:21.45`	`*** join/#maemo zodman (n=zodman@189.151.70.240)`
`14:23.47`	`Jaffa`	`Yeah, CV21 doesn't cover the whole of Rugby. "CV" for Coventry, btw.`
`14:27.05`	`sparr`	`gmail on the 770 has an unprintable character at the start of every email subject line in my inbox`
`14:27.06`	`sparr`	`weird`
`14:27.12`	`*** part/#maemo zodman (n=zodman@189.151.70.240)`
`14:38.03`	`*** join/#maemo red-zack (n=mk@p5B044314.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`14:38.03`	`Cyorxamp`	`No Kia or Nok ia ?`
`14:38.33`	`Cyorxamp`	`He said No Kia .... bWHAH!`
`14:39.00`	`*** join/#maemo krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132)`
`14:40.52`	`*** join/#maemo Cyor (n=Cyorxamp@212.57.229.111)`
`14:40.58`	`disq`	`well it's no-kia :P`
`14:41.17`	`Mikho`	`no-ki-a`
`14:41.38`	`Mikho`	`I'm pretty sure of that`
`14:42.39`	`disq`	`erm, sounds better yeah`
`14:44.55`	`*** join/#maemo kabtoffe_ (n=kbergstr@hoas-fe2add00-192.dhcp.inet.fi)`
`14:45.49`	`*** join/#maemo jnettlet (n=jnettlet@c-76-118-159-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)`
`14:45.54`	`*** join/#maemo kabtoffe (n=kbergstr@hoas-fe2add00-192.dhcp.inet.fi)`
`14:46.06`	`*** join/#maemo cosmo (n=cosmo@jolt.modeemi.cs.tut.fi)`
`14:46.57`	`Cyor`	`NONSENSE!`
`14:47.04`	`Cyor`	`Silly americans :P`
`14:47.49`	`*** join/#maemo jkyro (n=jasu@cs181090066.pp.htv.fi)`
`14:48.03`	`Cyor`	`Nokia (pronounced /nok-iɑ/ in IPA`
`14:48.08`	`Cyor`	`Wikipedia agrees`
`14:48.46`	`Cyor`	`It's also Li Nux not Lin ux`
`14:49.26`	`cosmo`	`i'm trying to install maemo-sdk-nokia-binaries_3.2 to scratchbox, but apt-get update ignores the local repository for some reason. any ideas?`
`14:50.20`	`Cyor`	`And while we are at it!!! Colour not Color, Favourite not Favorite!`
`14:52.05`	`*** join/#maemo philipl (i=1000@c-76-21-109-3.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`14:54.01`	`amr`	`in the uk its pronounced knock-eeah`
`14:54.11`	`sully`	`There's slightly more than 60 million Americans`
`14:54.24`	`amr`	`Cyor, its linucks`
`14:54.27`	`amr`	`not lyenucks`
`14:54.30`	`cosmo`	`in Finland we pronounce it just "Nokia"`
`14:54.44`	`cosmo`	`and "Linux"`
`14:55.55`	`*** join/#maemo kabtoffe (n=kbergstr@hoas-fe2add00-192.dhcp.inet.fi)`
`14:56.46`	`Cyor`	`amr: Wrong, totally wrong`
`14:56.53`	`amr`	`wrong on what`
`14:57.13`	`*** join/#maemo mgedmin (n=mg@213.226.144.3)`
`14:57.18`	`amr`	`linus pronounces it as linucks so im good with that`
`14:57.38`	`*** join/#maemo kabtoffe (n=kbergstr@hoas-fe2add00-192.dhcp.inet.fi)`
`14:58.34`	`Cyor`	`you don't pronounce his surname in the same way tho`
`14:58.51`	`amr`	`huh`
`14:58.51`	`cosmo`	`torvalds?`
`14:59.00`	`amr`	`who cares what his surname is`
`14:59.35`	`Cyor`	`bah I mean first name`
`15:00.22`	`*** join/#maemo bilboed (n=bilboed@pdpc/supporter/active/bilboed)`
`15:00.41`	`Cyor`	`'li' is pronounced with a short [ee] sound: compare prInt, mInImal etc.`
`15:00.41`	`Cyor`	`says Linux`
`15:00.44`	`amr`	`http://www.paul.sladen.org/pronunciation/torvalds-says-linux.wav`
`15:00.48`	`Cyor`	`Thus lienux not li-nux`
`15:00.56`	`Cyor`	`needs to have the E`
`15:01.01`	`disq`	`where's that linux.au? ah, there it is`
`15:01.03`	`Cyor`	`*says Linus`
`15:01.07`	`disq`	`cat linux.au >/dev/dsp`
`15:01.31`	`Cyor`	`I just read his post!`
`15:01.34`	`Cyor`	`http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux/msg/53a76cbbbcb6e1c8`
`15:02.33`	`*** join/#maemo kabtoffe (n=kbergstr@hoas-fe2add00-192.dhcp.inet.fi)`
`15:02.36`	`amr`	`listen to him freaking say it`
`15:02.45`	`Crofton\|home`	`I remember that post :)`
`15:10.03`	`melmoth`	`grumble...`
`15:10.30`	`melmoth`	`something unsubscribed me from maemo-user, and i cannot re subscribe anymore (no answer from the robot)`
`15:10.42`	`melmoth`	`does this ring a bell to anyone ?`
`15:13.08`	`*** join/#maemo jkyro (n=jasu@cs181090066.pp.htv.fi)`
`15:13.19`	`timeless`	`lemoth: you're the same person who complained this morning?`
`15:14.40`	`melmoth`	`yes`
`15:15.17`	`melmoth`	`i also send a mail to maemo-users-owner@maemo.org about this`
`15:16.07`	`disq`	`you could use the web interface`
`15:17.44`	`melmoth`	`well, yes thats how i know i miss some post :)`
`15:18.10`	`disq`	`you could use the web if to subscribe`
`15:20.06`	`melmoth`	`nope, i did it 5 time since this morning. Never received an answer.`
`15:20.09`	`*** join/#maemo erstazi (n=erstazi@unaffiliated/erstazi)`
`15:20.52`	`sparr`	`i say tomato, you say it wrong.`
`15:23.35`	`Mikho`	`what a nice argument about pronunciation`
`15:23.49`	`sparr`	`:)`
`15:24.33`	`Cyor`	`Not Lynux, not Linux... Lienux`
`15:26.16`	`jonek`	`there seem to be no hardware specs of the N800 in the maemo wiki, are they available elsewhere?`
`15:26.28`	`Mikho`	`english is pretty nice. People who invent new words get to define both written and pronounced form. Some people in the world get to define only the former`
`15:27.36`	`*** join/#maemo X-Fade_ (n=xfade@2.17-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)`
`15:30.01`	`*** join/#maemo Giuliastro (n=user@213-156-52-127.fastres.net)`
`15:31.33`	`*** part/#maemo Giuliastro (n=user@213-156-52-127.fastres.net)`
`15:34.46`	`sparr`	`Mikho: or the latter`
`15:35.15`	`Mikho`	`true`
`15:35.44`	`*** join/#maemo k-s (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132)`
`15:48.53`	`*** join/#maemo bipolar (n=bflong@216-164-162-138.pa.subnet.cable.rcn.com)`
`15:52.52`	`kupesoft`	`Is there a decent how-to for USB Host mode with the n800?`
`15:54.14`	`*** join/#maemo jani (i=[U2FsdGV@pcuf.fi)`
`15:55.09`	`jani`	`does anyone know how to check properly if writes to gconf are actually successfull ?`
`15:56.10`	`jani`	`basicly the cache is my problem, writing stuff allways results true but i can see from the logs few seconds later that write was not successfull because of memory full condition..`
`15:56.29`	`jani`	`(true and null GError struct)`
`16:16.15`	`*** join/#maemo spect (n=spect@polsl4-193.rybnet.pl)`
`16:29.59`	`*** join/#maemo bergie (n=bergie@cs181223139.pp.htv.fi)`
`16:30.41`	`*** join/#maemo bueroman (n=setanta@200.184.118.132)`
`16:31.26`	`*** join/#maemo lmoura (n=lmoura@200.184.118.132)`
`16:32.10`	`*** join/#maemo alex-weej (n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust237.midd.cable.ntl.com)`
`16:34.34`	`*** join/#maemo fsmw (n=snmartin@200.113.154.144)`
`16:35.11`	`*** join/#maemo eijk (n=til@BAA764b.baa.pppool.de)`
`16:35.22`	`eijk`	`Hi!`
`16:36.23`	`eijk`	`Did anyone of you experience RAM corruption problems with the 770 yet?`
`16:36.49`	`threeish`	`not i`
`16:37.49`	`eijk`	`Mine seems to have some hardware problems. Tested with http://pyropus.ca/software/memtester/`
`16:38.37`	`eijk`	`Funny thing: Problems only turn up when wifi packets are transmitted...`
`16:40.03`	`eijk`	`Any ideas?`
`16:40.40`	`eijk`	`Sounds like returning it, doesn't it?`
`16:41.31`	`eijk`	`Any experience how Nokia handles service for second hand owners? Warranty period is still in effect in principle...`
`16:41.54`	`*** join/#maemo TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128)`
`16:43.33`	`*** join/#maemo greentux (n=lemke@Z62c2.z.pppool.de)`
`16:50.49`	`0660	`no experience with n800, but usually you have the full warranty as long as you have the receipt`
`16:51.06`	`0660	`at least in countries where consumers have some protection :)`
`16:52.28`	`*** join/#maemo Lynoure (n=lynoure@lynoure.net)`
`16:52.29`	`*** join/#maemo red-zack (n=mk@p5B04475C.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`16:53.16`	`Lynoure`	`hi, I have a N770 with a really early 2005s OS version. Can I flash it with OS 2006 Edition version 3.2006.49-2 or do I need to use OS 2005 Edition version 5.2006.13-7?`
`16:53.20`	`ssvb`	`eijk: yes, I did enconter these problems`
`16:53.59`	`eijk`	`ssvb: interesting, did you have your 770 replaced>`
`16:54.00`	`eijk`	`?`
`16:54.08`	`*** join/#maemo Blacksitox (n=fuckyou@unaffiliated/blacksito)`
`16:54.23`	`ssvb`	`eijk: they look very much like software problems in the wifi driver`
`16:54.25`	`*** join/#maemo fsmw (n=snmartin@200.113.154.144)`
`16:55.33`	`*** join/#maemo Blacksito (n=fuckyou@unaffiliated/blacksito)`
`16:55.42`	`eijk`	`ssvb: so, you think it's not a hardware problem?`
`16:56.10`	`eijk`	`ssvb: I had all kinds of strange problems lately...`
`16:56.20`	`ssvb`	`eijk: memory corruption pattern changes with different firmware versions`
`16:56.23`	`eijk`	`ssvb: used to work fine...`
`16:57.18`	`eijk`	`ssvb: i just reflashed with the 3.2006.49-2`
`16:57.48`	`eijk`	`ssvb: before I had 49-1 if I remember correctly...`
`16:58.09`	`eijk`	`ssvb: didn't find the download anymore...`
`16:58.09`	`ssvb`	`eijk: check this link in maemo bugzilla: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=820`
`16:58.45`	`Lynoure`	`The exact version it has is 1-2005.42-9`
`16:59.39`	`ssvb`	`eijk: I had these problems with all the versions of firmware, what did you use to detect memory corruption issues?`
`16:59.54`	`*** join/#maemo red-zack (n=mk@p5B04475C.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`17:00.33`	`eijk`	`<PROTECTED>`
`17:01.58`	`eijk`	`After a few months of flawless operation I had a strange crash after which the tablet wouldn't boot anymore: No progress bar, only Nokia logo. White screen in charging mode...`
`17:02.16`	`ssvb`	`eijk: yes, I used the same test program for doing these tests (but earlier detected them with some other memory hungry software)`
`17:02.27`	`eijk`	`Then I reflashed. Flasher complained, it couldn't flash. 2nd try worked...`
`17:03.10`	`ssvb`	`eijk: was your battery fully charged when flashing?`
`17:03.24`	`eijk`	`Yes, on charger.`
`17:04.58`	`ssvb`	`eijk: also check 'dmesg' log, it may have weird wifi driver related error messages when you encounter memory corruption`
`17:05.24`	`eijk`	`No, didn't see anything on dmesg...`
`17:05.31`	`Lynoure`	`Are OS 2005 and OS 2006 just different software versions, or is there two different versions of N770 hardware, one for OS 2005 and another for OS 2006?`
`17:07.49`	`eijk`	`Lynoure: I think, you can flash the OS 2006.`
`17:08.25`	`ssvb`	`eijk: what router/access point are you using by the way? mine is Asus WL-520G`
`17:08.36`	`eijk`	`D-Link 624+`
`17:09.53`	`eijk`	`It's so irreproducible... Now it seems fine....`
`17:11.25`	`*** join/#maemo jjazz (n=jjazz@cpe-72-225-187-239.nyc.res.rr.com)`
`17:12.18`	`Lynoure`	`eijk: Thanks`
`17:13.24`	`ssvb`	`eijk: yes, it is sometimes quite hard to reproduce, but you are definitely not alone having this issue`
`17:13.34`	`eijk`	`Ok...`
`17:13.41`	`*** join/#maemo zwnj (n=behnam@193.189.122.196)`
`17:13.45`	`jjazz`	`The instructions (at http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowTo_EASILY_Boot_From_MMC_card) for booting from the MMC slot advise making a fat partition and an ext2 partition. Is there any reason I shouldn't make them both ext2? Or just make one large ext2 partition? I don't generally have need of fat partitions.`
`17:13.47`	`*** join/#maemo Blacksitox (n=fuckyou@unaffiliated/blacksito)`
`17:14.04`	`Blacksitox`	`re`
`17:14.22`	`eijk`	`ssvb: so, you think, it's really no hardware issue?`
`17:15.09`	`eijk`	`ssvb: sll the different problems seemed to turn up quite at the same time for me...`
`17:15.18`	`ssvb`	`eijk: I can't be really sure, but my intuition tells me that the problem is in software`
`17:16.17`	`eijk`	`ssvb: ok...`
`17:17.52`	`ssvb`	`eijk: I suspect that lots of users blaming opera crashes and thinking that these are caused by out of memory problem actually suffer from the same memory corruption issue`
`17:17.59`	`eijk`	`ssvb: then I'll take its good mood and reflash it now...`
`17:18.22`	`*** join/#maemo dev (n=dev@master.netzflocken.de)`
`17:18.39`	`*** join/#maemo kabtoffe (n=kbergstr@hoas-fe2add00-192.dhcp.inet.fi)`
`17:18.43`	`*** join/#maemo dev (n=dev@master.netzflocken.de)`
`17:19.00`	`ssvb`	`eijk: I'm using only usbnet and bluetooth now, the device works fine and quite stable`
`17:19.43`	`eijk`	`ssvb: Ok. did you try reducing the transmit power from 100 mW to 10 mW?`
`17:21.29`	`ssvb`	`eijk: I don't remember, but I tried a lot of settings both on the device and on the router (excluding insecure WEP), nothing helped`
`17:21.47`	`*** join/#maemo vivijim (n=vivijim@200.184.118.132)`
`17:21.48`	`eijk`	`ssvb: ok...`
`17:22.57`	`ssvb`	`eijk: are you using WEP or WPA encryption?`
`17:23.28`	`eijk`	`ssvb: WEP :-/`
`17:24.06`	`ssvb`	`eijk: ok...`
`17:25.40`	`*** join/#maemo CardinalFang (n=c@user-0c6ti96.cable.mindspring.com)`
`17:29.42`	`ssvb`	`eijk: Well, if somebody could build a debug version of wifi driver and investigated this issue, that might provide some more information regarding this issue. Unfortunately it is much easier for me to just pretend that Nokia 770 does not have wifi at all, I'm quite satisfied with bluetooth`
`17:35.06`	`*** join/#maemo tso (n=tso@183.84-49-135.nextgentel.com)`
`17:41.10`	`*** join/#maemo richieeee72 (n=richard@82-69-62-183.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk)`
`17:41.40`	`*** join/#maemo notpeter (n=nope@flexo.psych.columbia.edu)`
`17:42.21`	`notpeter`	`Hey all, I know this sounds like Richard Stallman -esque ramblings, but has anyone made an attempt at a 100% free software 770/n800?`
`17:42.59`	`notpeter`	`I really like the device, but I know that Nokia has abandoned the 770 (that's why they got so cheap) and would like to make a crack at a fully open source distribution.`
`17:44.03`	`kulve`	`there's no open source wlan driver`
`17:44.10`	`kulve`	`that's the biggest issue`
`17:44.22`	`notpeter`	`what's the chipset?`
`17:44.45`	`kulve`	`google tells. I can't remember it now`
`17:45.03`	`kulve`	`but Nokia is planning to release a new HE rootfs for 770..`
`17:45.12`	`notpeter`	`HE?`
`17:45.13`	`_Monkey`	`HE is active in here..so just check back ...`
`17:45.24`	`kulve`	`hacker edition`
`17:45.33`	`kulve`	`most of the n800 sw on 770`
`17:45.41`	`notpeter`	`right.`
`17:45.55`	`kulve`	`not intended for end users though`
`17:46.14`	`*** join/#maemo guardian (n=Guardian@86.203.108.13)`
`17:49.19`	`notpeter`	`Yeah, I'm interested going after some things that were never really important to Nokia. Namely simplifying the UI.`
`17:50.05`	`notpeter`	`I've used HE briefly but was wholey unimpressed, which is unsuprising as it is really just for developers with a 770 who want to see how there stuff would (kinda sorta) work on the n800`
`17:51.08`	`CardinalFang`	`kulve, Yet another HE rootfs? OS2007+1?`
`17:51.20`	`*** join/#maemo DaniloCesar (n=user@201-14-37-76.ctame705.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br)`
`17:51.36`	`jjazz`	`The instructions (at http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowTo_EASILY_Boot_From_MMC_card) for booting from the MMC slot advise making a fat partition and an ext2 partition. Is there any reason I shouldn't make them both ext2? Or just make one large ext2 partition? I don't generally have need of fat partitions.`
`17:52.04`	`kulve`	`HE edition including the stuff now in the newest n800 release. That's what I read from the mailing list, iirc`
`17:53.10`	`kulve`	`jjazz: maybe the one is intended for "normal" use..`
`17:53.21`	`kulve`	`i.e. file manager could see it, etc`
`17:53.57`	`jjazz`	`kulve: Can file manager not read an ext2 partition?`
`17:54.10`	`kulve`	`I guess it can't`
`17:54.30`	`notpeter`	`Also, I could be wrong about this, but isn't the stock setup looking for an fat32 partition to put the virtual memory file`
`17:54.47`	`kulve`	`i.e. it's probably quite hard coded to read mount and read first partition and assume it's vfat (mounting is actually done on lower level..)`
`17:54.56`	`jjazz`	`Ah. Ugh.`
`17:54.58`	`jjazz`	`OK`
`17:55.37`	`pupnik`	`you could manually insmod ext2, mount and symlink your ext2 partition to a dir under ~/MyDocs if you want fm to use it`
`17:55.47`	`eijk`	`ssvb: thanks for your thoughts... actually, for me wifi is quite essential...`
`17:56.22`	`kulve`	`I'm not actually sure if FM cares about the fs type, but the mounting scripts does`
`17:56.23`	`pupnik`	`vfat works fine for data though`
`17:56.25`	`kulve`	`do`
`17:56.33`	`eijk`	`ssvb: but for now I'll try and monitor the problem with memtester...`
`17:56.37`	`notpeter`	`jjazz: you might also find this guide useful. Similar content, but a little simpler. http://examplified.net/guide/Nokia_770/`
`17:56.49`	`jjazz`	`notpeter: thanks. I'll look at it.`
`17:57.01`	`eijk`	`ssvb: maybe I'll also try to have it replaced as long as under warranty...`
`17:57.17`	`*** join/#maemo Yamazaki-kun (n=bsa3@212.183.134.208)`
`17:58.51`	`jjazz`	`notpeter: That link is quite helpful. It includes some of the missing detail as to why a fat partition might be useful. Thanks.`
`18:01.56`	`rik`	`so`
`18:02.00`	`rik`	`shadow passwords.`
`18:02.17`	`rik`	`do we use them? aparently not, on my system. why the heck not?`
`18:06.17`	`*** join/#maemo krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132)`
`18:06.52`	`kulve`	`on the device? Because there's only one passwd and everybody knows it..`
`18:07.02`	`*** join/#maemo procto (i=[U2FsdGV@urchin.unet.brandeis.edu)`
`18:07.10`	`*** join/#maemo ryanfaerman (n=ryanfaer@adsl-153-24-66.mia.bellsouth.net)`
`18:10.29`	`*** part/#maemo richieeee72 (n=richard@82-69-62-183.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk)`
`18:12.25`	`*** join/#maemo Cwiiis (n=cwiiis@82-43-46-194.cable.ubr02.croy.blueyonder.co.uk)`
`18:17.40`	`*** join/#maemo smok (n=richard@629953232P001.rain.fr)`
`18:18.48`	`*** join/#maemo threeish (n=sedated@pool-71-180-177-94.tampfl.fios.verizon.net)`
`18:21.39`	`*** join/#maemo ssvb (n=user@87.252.225.64)`
`18:26.42`	`kupesoft`	`Is there a decent walkthrough for the n800 usb host mode?`
`18:26.56`	`ssvb`	`kulve: as for the wifi driver sources, something seems to be available here: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/cx3110x/`
`18:31.09`	`procto`	`only part of it is source`
`18:31.12`	`procto`	`the rest is a chunk of binary`
`18:31.18`	`procto`	`it's the one part of the device nokia won't open`
`18:31.24`	`procto`	`(or more likely, it's conexant that wont')`
`18:32.04`	`derf`	`In the US at least there are FCC regulation problems with a fully open software radio.`
`18:32.11`	`kreig`	`likely conexant yah`
`18:33.16`	`ssvb`	`procto: if we suppose there is some bug (or a lot of them) in wifi driver, what part, open or closed is more likely to be affected by them?`
`18:33.53`	`procto`	`uhm, both are just as likely, I'd say`
`18:34.05`	`kreig`	`I would say closed`
`18:34.07`	`procto`	`I'm planning on reversing it and writing a new driver, so it can do packet injection in monitor mode`
`18:34.08`	`tso`	`hmm, the internal mail client interpret & as "`
`18:34.17`	`kreig`	`because if it's full software driver, then it's doing alot more work`
`18:34.19`	`procto`	`but I haven't had the time yet`
`18:34.23`	`kreig`	`but it is specualtion`
`18:35.35`	`kupesoft`	`procto: What's your timeframe on that? ;p`
`18:35.39`	`ssvb`	`procto: if that binary blob comes from conexant, maybe it was better tested, I wonder if it is reused in other devices too`
`18:35.45`	`*** join/#maemo pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be)`
`18:35.53`	`kupesoft`	`procto: Packet injection on the n800 is very important to some`
`18:37.27`	`kreig`	`might wanna hook up with the OpenBSD efforts to get conexant and intel to open the blobs`
`18:37.37`	`procto`	`kupesoft: I really don't know. solely depends on time availability.`
`18:37.52`	`kupesoft`	`How much time do you need? I'm willing to sponsor the project.`
`18:37.54`	`procto`	`kupesoft: it's important to me`
`18:38.07`	`procto`	`but I'm relaly busy with work until the end of august`
`18:38.13`	`procto`	`and after that I have university, AND work`
`18:38.18`	`kreig`	`Apparently Theo is already in conversation with Conexant about some of the wifi chipsets`
`18:38.23`	`procto`	`I can't estimate my availability right now`
`18:38.36`	`kreig`	`oh, that is old news tho, so who knows what is going on now`
`18:38.54`	`procto`	`kupesoft: but I talked with dragorn about it (author of kismet) and he's not willing to put in the time to do it (he's an n800 owner)`
`18:39.17`	`procto`	`he says, however, that's it's similar to prism54 softmac`
`18:39.34`	`dragorn`	`google, there WAS a 770 softmac package, but the softmac dev as far as I can tell is pretty dead`
`18:39.47`	`dragorn`	`and there was no package source`
`18:39.48`	`procto`	`dragorn: howdy :>`
`18:39.58`	`procto`	`ah`
`18:44.06`	`procto`	`I wonder how similar it is to islsm`
`18:44.06`	`*** join/#maemo HerrFuxx (n=Herr_Fux@p57AA6B4A.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`18:45.26`	`*** join/#maemo Tahitibob (n=david@guy78-4-82-243-43-241.fbx.proxad.net)`
`18:47.00`	`procto`	`so it looks like islsm would support aireplay`
`18:47.06`	`procto`	`but not airodump?`
`18:47.09`	`*** join/#maemo Vudentz (n=luiz@200.184.118.132)`
`18:50.04`	`kupesoft`	`With the n800 in host mode you could use a dongle for aircrack,`
`18:57.12`	`*** join/#maemo fcarvalho (n=fcarvalh@200.184.118.132)`
`18:59.18`	`procto`	`has anyone attested to a working n800 usb host mode?`
`18:59.23`	`procto`	`say, from this: http://www.muru.com/linux/n800-usb-host/`
`18:59.23`	`*** join/#maemo TomCreer (n=irc@89.107.5.203)`
`18:59.57`	`straind`	`What would you use a dongle for?`
`19:04.01`	`procto`	`the dongle would be doing the injection`
`19:06.12`	`*** join/#maemo dolske (n=dolske@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com)`
`19:06.14`	`*** join/#maemo behdad (i=behdad@nat/redhat-ca/x-f066880bc5eae377)`
`19:06.49`	`kupesoft`	`I think a decent how-to wiki should be written up for how to get host mode working.`
`19:06.56`	`kupesoft`	`Unfortunately, I haven't gotten it working yet ;p`
`19:10.19`	`*** join/#maemo eijk_ (n=til@BAA1dc9.baa.pppool.de)`
`19:10.25`	`*** join/#maemo kabtoffe (n=kbergstr@hoas-fe2add00-192.dhcp.inet.fi)`
`19:12.08`	`straind`	`procto: Thanks. I didn't see that you were talking about injection. I've been running kismet and aircrack-ng without too much trouble. :)`
`19:16.55`	`TomCreer`	`aircrack work well?`
`19:19.24`	`*** join/#maemo DaniloCesar (n=user@201-14-37-76.ctame705.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br)`
`19:20.07`	`*** join/#maemo mallum (n=mallum@host86-136-65-190.range86-136.btcentralplus.com)`
`19:21.18`	`TomCreer`	`mplayer won't install ('unable to install').. any ideas why?`
`19:21.52`	`pupnik`	`something's wrong`
`19:22.04`	`pupnik`	`what does the application manager log say?`
`19:22.51`	`*** join/#maemo fsmw (n=snmartin@200.113.154.144)`
`19:23.02`	`TomCreer`	`where's the log?`
`19:23.08`	`TomCreer`	`nvm`
`19:23.23`	`procto`	`TomCreer: aircrack will work. pretty much all the tools in the package besides airmon and aireplay`
`19:23.30`	`procto`	`and you don't really need airmon`
`19:23.34`	`procto`	`I sorta got airmon to work`
`19:23.38`	`procto`	`but it's better to use ignore it`
`19:23.42`	`TomCreer`	parse error, invalid package name (charachter ` not allowed)...
`19:23.53`	`TomCreer`	`ah, sweet`
`19:24.00`	`TomCreer`	`even airodump?`
`19:25.41`	`eijk_`	`eijk`
`19:30.00`	`pupnik`	`TomCreer: i haven't heard of that mplayer issue before - if you could post the mplayer version, os version and how you installed it (from a file or web or .install file) to garage.maemo.org it might help the package maintainer become aware of an error`
`19:30.16`	`TomCreer`	`i don't think it's an mplayer issue`
`19:30.25`	`TomCreer`	`i'll post full log entry in sec`
`19:30.59`	`kupesoft`	`straind: With injection?`
`19:31.29`	`lle2`	`anybody here with an intel mac interested in os x port of sb2?`
`19:31.42`	`TomCreer`	`Installing mplayer 1.0rc1-maemo.18.n770`
`19:31.43`	`TomCreer`	`apt-worker: not configuring unrelated package vncviewer`
`19:31.43`	`TomCreer`	`apt-worker: not configuring unrelated package libsqlite0`
`19:31.43`	`TomCreer`	dpkg: parse error, in file `/var/lib/dpkg/status' near line 8883
`19:31.43`	`TomCreer`	package `osso-applet-sound-l10n-itit':
`19:31.43`	`TomCreer`	`<PROTECTED>`
`19:31.45`	`TomCreer`	`digits and -+._ allowed)`
`19:31.47`	`TomCreer`	`E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (2)`
`19:32.16`	`*** join/#maemo qgil (n=qgil@a88-112-12-130.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`19:33.00`	`DaniloCesar`	`someone uses fmradio? I can't hear any useful sound, just the noises....`
`19:33.54`	`kreig`	`plug in your headphones`
`19:34.02`	`kreig`	`they are the antaena (sp?)`
`19:34.28`	`pupnik`	`TomCreer: i've seen that three times now - /var/lib/dpkg/status is corrupt. You can restore from a backup statusfile in /var/lib/dpkg/ or edit the file yourself (textfile) to fix the offending line`
`19:34.45`	`TomCreer`	`pupnik : cheers :)P`
`19:35.12`	`*** part/#maemo kreig (i=craig@h-68-164-14-24.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net)`
`19:35.14`	`DaniloCesar`	`Do I need the original headphones?`
`19:36.27`	`notpeter`	`lle2: what's sb2? (I have an intel mac...)`
`19:36.44`	`qgil`	`DaniloCesar: just any headphones you can plug`
`19:36.47`	`lle2`	`notpeter: http://freedesktop.org/Software/sbox2`
`19:36.52`	`pupnik`	`no, but different headphones will give varying results with reception depending on lead length (in general with headphone antennae)`
`19:37.46`	`notpeter`	`lle2: Umm...yeah...that'd be sweet. Have you gotten it working for Maemo dev yet?`
`19:37.47`	`qgil`	`Sparr ?`
`19:37.48`	`*** join/#maemo adoyle (n=adoyle@72.74.246.2)`
`19:37.51`	`_Monkey`	`someone should fill in the blank`
`19:38.00`	`lle2`	`notpeter: I've a ppc mac myself and am currently working on porting sb2 to it, would be nice to see how it goes with the intel version`
`19:38.05`	`notpeter`	`lle2: I've been doing my stuff with Ubuntu under parallels`
`19:38.55`	`DaniloCesar`	`pupnik, qgil, kreig, Thanks! its working`
`19:39.02`	`lle2`	`notpeter: I've built some maemo debs using sb2 on a debian box, it's not there yet completely`
`19:39.30`	`lle2`	`notpeter: I'd initially be just happy to see if it's at all possible to do sb2 style tricks on the os x. so far it looks quite promising`
`19:40.11`	`TomCreer`	`err, any easy way to press 'escape' on x term on 770?`
`19:40.34`	`lle2`	`notpeter: I'll get back to you once I've got something running on my ppc mac`
`19:40.57`	`lle2`	`notpeter: might take a week or two`
`19:42.47`	`notpeter`	`lle2: sure. You can eamil me at 'not' + mynick + '@yahoo.com'`
`19:42.59`	`lle2`	`ok`
`19:43.24`	`notpeter`	`i'm out...gotta go fix a printer that doesn't print the letter J.`
`19:43.29`	`notpeter`	`(no kidding)`
`19:44.19`	`*** join/#maemo colinl (n=colin@ABayonne-256-1-75-169.w86-205.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`19:44.40`	`*** part/#maemo notpeter (n=nope@flexo.psych.columbia.edu)`
`19:46.10`	`lle2`	`TomCreer: isn't the back arrowy thingy esc?`
`19:48.13`	`TomCreer`	`ok :)`
`19:48.33`	`TomCreer`	`would maemo care if i just deleted /var/lib/dpkg/status?`
`19:51.20`	`Silicium`	`http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0bKq3x74UE`
`19:51.58`	`*** join/#maemo Andy80 (n=ftrewgg@adsl-ull-203-187.41-151.net24.it)`
`19:54.33`	`qgil`	`Silicium: i like the sofa`
`19:54.55`	`Silicium`	`lol`
`19:55.17`	`*** join/#maemo NetBlade (n=osku@xdsl-206-183.nblnetworks.fi)`
`19:58.10`	`*** join/#maemo MCCob (n=MCCob@bre91-1-82-238-224-20.fbx.proxad.net)`
`20:03.50`	`qgil`	`milhouse: Carlos wrote today "We're close to releasing a new version of the hacker edition" -http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-developers/2007-August/011388.html - he knows better than me`
`20:05.25`	`lle2`	`qgil: the kernel thing is strange`
`20:05.52`	`lle2`	`qgil: I mean, there's really not that much preventing us from having an up to date kernel on it`
`20:06.16`	`qgil`	`lle2: I'm really not following the details`
`20:06.37`	`qgil`	`lle2: you might want to discuss with Carlos or Joni`
`20:07.03`	`lle2`	`qgil: sure, but omap1 is actively used by many, so the kernel is not in too bad shape for it`
`20:07.26`	`lle2`	`qgil: it's mostly some minor breakage + our wifi`
`20:08.33`	`lle2`	`qgil: and I would really like to have 770 supported with the new software releases, at least from core sw's point of view`
`20:09.09`	`lle2`	`qgil: but it seems there's absolutely zero demand internally for it`
`20:09.14`	`qgil`	`lle2: sure, but... I'm really not involved in the HE :) I just posted the update now because milhouse was asking yesterday`
`20:09.28`	`ssvb`	`lle2: N800 kernel may have some OMAP1 related stuff broken (dspgateway?), see http://linux.omap.com/pipermail/linux-omap-open-source/2007-August/011016.html`
`20:10.47`	`ssvb`	`lle2: this post confirms broken dsp theory: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-developers/2007-August/011392.html`
`20:11.39`	`lle2`	`qgil: sure, but... I guess what I'm aiming at here is that I know a few guys who could really easily fix the 770 support in current kernel, in all other ways except maybe for the dsp and wifi`
`20:11.47`	`*** join/#maemo Zword (n=Zword@bos94-3-82-226-234-106.fbx.proxad.net)`
`20:12.34`	`qgil`	`lle2: should I insist that you could contact Carlos & Joni to discuss your ideas and proposal in a more fruitful way?`
`20:13.01`	`lle2`	`qgil: just that core doesn't have anyone to do it, or manage doing it. if somebody else would find it as something that's useful I would happily give pointers as to how to get it done in practise`
`20:13.05`	`qgil`	`lle2: my involvement in the HE is a) to make sure the project is there and b) write about it in maemo.org when a new release come`
`20:13.52`	`lle2`	`qgil: yeah, but do you think it would be useful? I've not followed what 770 users want at all`
`20:14.06`	`qgil`	`lle2: I can copy&paste this log in an email and send it to Carlos - you could do the same, or just walk some meters and find him :)`
`20:14.26`	`lle2`	`qgil: he's hiding in my kitchen?!?`
`20:17.05`	`qgil`	`lle2: most 770 users want Mozilla based browser, Skype, SIP support and whatever cool stuff available in the IT OS 2007`
`20:17.36`	`lle2`	`qgil: figures, people always want everything`
`20:17.53`	`pupnik`	`updating software for the tablet doesn't require an open wlan driver any less than it does on desktop linux`
`20:18.02`	`pupnik`	`/less/more/`
`20:18.26`	`qgil`	`lle2: of course`
`20:20.52`	`lle2`	`pupnik: upgrading the kernel from 2.6.16(?) to 2.6.22 will definitely break the wlan driver, fixing it is not trivial, most likely.`
`20:20.53`	`amr`	`can i get gps to track where i am without a network connection`
`20:20.59`	`amr`	`if i downloaded the maps etc`
`20:21.14`	`amr`	`is it possible at all or is it a lost cause`
`20:21.27`	`ssvb`	`qgil: are there any plans to make HE development more open or even relay it almost completely to the community?`
`20:22.30`	`qgil`	`ssvb: the community can do completely the part that is currently open, unless someone goes ahead with some serious reverse engineering`
`20:22.43`	`qgil`	`ssvb: complicated`
`20:23.09`	`qgil`	`ssvb: more open development, I really don't know the short term details`
`20:23.15`	`qgil`	`ssvb: but`
`20:23.54`	`qgil`	`ssvb: (let me find a URL)`
`20:24.47`	`qgil`	`ssvb: perhaps http://desdeamericaconamor.org/blog/node/378 could influence in the openness and emancipation of the HE development`
`20:24.51`	`qgil`	`ssvb: perhaps`
`20:25.13`	`lle2`	`if somebody sends a patch fixing 770 support in the kernel to linux-omap mailing list, it's very likely to be well received`
`20:26.49`	`*** part/#maemo Lynoure (n=lynoure@lynoure.net)`
`20:28.15`	`*** join/#maemo svu (n=svu@89.101.232.199)`
`20:29.47`	`lle2`	`but, as is quite often the case, it gets damn quiet when it would be time to actually do some of the dirty work instead of just talking about it.`
`20:30.53`	`*** join/#maemo Yaco2 (n=Yaco2@201.255.241.111)`
`20:33.07`	`TomCreer`	`anyway to apt-get an app + its dependencies?`
`20:34.55`	`*** join/#maemo nelson (n=nelson@rrcs-72-43-17-50.nys.biz.rr.com)`
`20:35.47`	`ssvb`	`qgil: thanks, but that blog is quite long and seems to overcomplicate some things :) what a community developer needs is some way to 1. fix a problem in a core package (can be done if the sources of the package are available) 2. deploy the fix in a convenient way to end users who are willing to try it (we have some serious problems here)`
`20:37.22`	`qgil`	`ssvb: define 2`
`20:37.32`	`qgil`	`ssvb: "convenient way"`
`20:39.23`	`*** join/#maemo NeoStrider (n=daniel@cm-tvcidade-nri-C8B1D673.dynamic.brdterra.com.br)`
`20:39.54`	`NeoStrider`	`anybody home?`
`20:40.02`	`NeoStrider`	`_Monkey: anybody home?`
`20:40.04`	`_Monkey`	`neostrider: bugger all, i dunno`
`20:40.22`	`pupnik`	`hi neo`
`20:41.23`	`amr`	`http://bergie.iki.fi/midcom-serveattachmentguid-23ae2cfed62711db8ed1550673c568ae68ae/maemomapper-openstreetmap-mapnik.jpg`
`20:41.24`	`amr`	`what theme is that`
`20:41.24`	`pupnik`	`what's wrong with the current kernel?`
`20:41.49`	`NeoStrider`	`hi`
`20:42.17`	`NeoStrider`	`have you tried my new release, pupnik?`
`20:42.19`	`bergie`	`amr: Plankton`
`20:42.21`	`_Monkey`	`Plankton is a good theme eh?`
`20:42.46`	`amr`	`cool thanks`
`20:46.26`	`ssvb`	`qgil: first the developer needs to be sure that he does not introduce any problems while building the package and the only changes will be introduced by his fix (that means the result of building a package from the same sources by nokia and any other developer should be the same)`
`20:47.37`	`NeoStrider`	`gtg`
`20:47.40`	`NeoStrider`	`cya`
`20:48.04`	`ssvb`	`qgil: second, it should be possible to build either a full firmware image with a replaced package or it should be possible to install a replacement for a core package from a .deb file without too much hassle`
`20:50.30`	`qgil`	`ssvb: deb packages, build dependencies resolution, sources available, update via packages or whole image...`
`20:50.48`	`qgil`	`ssvb: does that ring a bell? :)`
`20:51.56`	`qgil`	`ssvb: isn't a distro a simplification (and not an overcomplication) of an integrated process taking care of all the elements you are describing?`
`20:53.33`	`*** join/#maemo krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132)`
`20:55.31`	`ssvb`	`qgil: not quite, centralized distro maintained by somebody who is not particularly interested in a random community developer's fixes slows down a lot of things quite significantly`
`20:56.24`	`qgil`	`ssvb: "maintained by somebody who is not particularly interested in a random community developer's fixes" are your words`
`20:56.36`	`qgil`	`ssvb: from my point of view the logical principle is`
`20:56.43`	`*** join/#maemo maddler (n=maddler@217-133-171-24.b2b.tiscali.it)`
`20:56.57`	`qgil`	`ssvb: if the maintainer is like this then it won't go ahead with a distro`
`20:57.13`	`qgil`	`ssvb: if the maintainer goes ahead with a distro is because is not like this`
`20:57.27`	`qgil`	`ssvb: the other options make no sense`
`20:58.06`	`qgil`	`ssvb: but you could say that non-sense happens sometimes, yes :)`
`21:00.02`	`qgil`	`ssvb: however, what about shared responsibility of the HE repository? HE means not official Nokia support, and this provides flexibility for ownership in a way that is more difficult for the officially supported software - just an idea`
`21:00.40`	`ssvb`	`qgil: well, maintainers are usually quite conservative and don't like to change things that work acceptable from their point of view (decision to stick with an old kernel is old kernel is one of the examples) :)`
`21:01.01`	`qgil`	`ssvb: open an experimental branch`
`21:03.08`	`qgil`	`ssvb: but... what am I doing trying to convince you? :) otoh what would you do if you were Nokia? How would you answer the question you ar asking now?`
`21:04.19`	`maddler`	`hey all!!!`
`21:04.27`	`maddler`	`qgil: hi, dude!`
`21:05.34`	`*** join/#maemo shackan (n=frob@host173-146-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)`
`21:06.23`	`pupnik`	`nokia should drop symbian and invest everything in linux :P`
`21:06.58`	`shackan`	`get serious :P`
`21:07.17`	`*** join/#maemo greentux (n=lemke@Z62c2.z.pppool.de)`
`21:07.58`	`qgil`	`symbian is a good business, you wouldn't drop it if you were Nokia :)`
`21:08.01`	`*** join/#maemo kabtoffe (n=kbergstr@hoas-fe2add00-192.dhcp.inet.fi)`
`21:08.06`	`ssvb`	`qgil: making FIASCO image creation tool available + providing some hosting for experimental community improved images would certainly help to solve a lot of problems with the deployment of community fixes, but that may be too much :)`
`21:09.45`	`qgil`	`ssvb: there is a FIASCO creation tool available in the community and, well, hosting itself is not a problem nowadays`
`21:10.10`	`qgil`	`ssvb: what you need is relicensing of some packages to make them distributable`
`21:10.35`	`amr`	`is the plankton theme only available for the n800?`
`21:10.46`	`ssvb`	`qgil: is there a FIASCO creation tool available? or even FIASCO format description?`
`21:11.25`	`ssvb`	`qgil: hosting of an image elsewhere may introduce legal problems`
`21:11.27`	`*** join/#maemo notpeter (n=nope@flexo.psych.columbia.edu)`
`21:11.47`	`qgil`	`ssvb: the 'seamless software update' project (allowing updates via deb packages) will help in this relicensing, the distro (if it happens at all) will help in this sense as well`
`21:11.55`	`ssvb`	`qgil: I guess you are asking to enter a serial number for downloading images not just for fun`
`21:12.14`	`qgil`	`ssvb: for license restrictions`
`21:12.31`	`amr`	`anyone?`
`21:13.20`	`qgil`	`anyway, too late for an early bird like me - my bed is waiting`
`21:13.44`	`qgil`	`thanks for the conversation and the good ideas`
`21:13.50`	`ssvb`	`qgil: any idea when this 'seamless software update' project can become available? will it support Nokia 770 too?`
`21:13.51`	`pupnik`	`cheers`
`21:14.00`	`ssvb`	`ah, sorry, good bye then`
`21:14.12`	`ssvb`	`see you later again :)`
`21:14.27`	`qgil`	`yeah, let's talk another day about the seamleszzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz`
`21:14.35`	`*** part/#maemo qgil (n=qgil@a88-112-12-130.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`21:16.57`	`pupnik`	`ssvb do you think it is practical to do general-purpose optimization on 770/N800 SDL?`
`21:17.03`	`amr`	`:\|`
`21:17.35`	`pupnik`	`i suppose that's a strange question`
`21:18.32`	`*** join/#maemo birunko (n=birunko@200.184.118.132)`
`21:18.41`	`pupnik`	`my guess is that these games that do compositing interally at 24/32bpp then use standard SDL are wasting a lot of cpu`
`21:19.27`	`ssvb`	`pupnik: maybe DSP core could handle screen updates with automatic 32->16bpp conversion`
`21:23.21`	`ssvb`	`pupnik: there are lots of ideas about what can be improved in the core packages, maybe some of them will work, maybe some will not, but I would better prefer code hacking over taking too much care about packaging and distro maintaining :)`
`21:23.41`	`pupnik`	`yeah i can understand that`
`21:24.54`	`pupnik`	`at 320x240 or 400x240 things are good enough as they are in sdl land`
`21:25.44`	`pupnik`	`for homebrew games at least`
`21:25.58`	`pupnik`	`there might be a couple that run 800x480 which would benefit`
`21:29.11`	`pupnik`	`what i have to do now is integrating things with maemo-games startup, which isn't very interesting`
`21:29.45`	`pupnik`	`And then learn more about the gp2x system and the software`
`21:30.39`	`pupnik`	`Our emulators are not very good right now`
`21:31.36`	`*** join/#maemo kupesoft (n=dave@CPE003018b02a53-CM0018c0c44e76.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`21:31.58`	`pupnik`	`The xkbd virtual keyboard can run alongside a 320x240 pixel doubled window with a narrow layout`
`21:32.33`	`pupnik`	`but sdl fullscreen apps currently can't get input from it`
`21:33.18`	`*** join/#maemo shackan (n=frob@host4-150-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)`
`21:33.32`	`amr`	`is the plankton theme only available for the n800?`
`21:34.36`	`pupnik`	`themes?`
`21:34.36`	`_Monkey`	`themes is, like, http://downloads.maemo.org/other/ for recent Bora themes, http://thememaker.garage.maemo.org/About%20Theme%20Maker.html for the 'Theme Maker' applet, https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/hildon-theme-tools/README for tools http://icct.blogspot.com/2006/04/maemo-themes-are-here.html`
`21:35.16`	`pupnik`	`i think plankton can work on 770`
`21:36.09`	`amr`	`oh cool thanks`
`21:38.40`	`amr`	`i cant find plankton on those links`
`21:38.50`	`amr`	`i can find the n800 one on the guys blog`
`21:39.14`	`ssvb`	`pupnik: 320x240 (pixel doubled) resolution leaves 160x480 (nondoubled) part of screen at one of the sides, do you plan to use it for virtual keyboard?`
`21:44.44`	`*** join/#maemo sp3000 (n=tt@hoasb-ff0ddd00-250.dhcp.inet.fi)`
`21:45.25`	`amr`	`im sure ive banned myself from ssh`
`21:45.27`	`amr`	`how can i check`
`21:47.44`	`*** join/#maemo NeoStrider (n=daniel@cm-tvcidade-nri-C8B1D673.dynamic.brdterra.com.br)`
`21:53.39`	`pupnik`	`ssvb yes that works`
`21:54.00`	`pupnik`	`i made a keyboard layout for 160width`
`21:54.48`	`*** join/#maemo sbaturzio (n=sbaturzi@host244-136-static.36-88-b.business.telecomitalia.it)`
`21:54.52`	`ssvb`	`pupnik: that's cool`
`21:55.04`	`*** join/#maemo lardman (n=simon@78.145.54.217)`
`21:55.13`	`pupnik`	`http://pupnik.de/xkbd_game2_xsp.png`
`21:55.20`	`lardman`	`evening all`
`21:56.41`	`straind`	`kupesoft:`
`21:56.59`	`straind`	`dfrggvddfvfvfcfcv`
`21:57.08`	`pupnik`	`kupo!`
`21:57.51`	`lardman`	`Anyone familiar with the internals of vorbis?`
`21:58.48`	`pupnik`	`no, have you compiled it for dsp?`
`21:59.22`	`lardman`	`not yet, trying to work out how to keep the buffer filled and whether I need to worry about it is ov_read() has an internal buffer anyway`
`22:00.12`	`lardman`	`ov_read() is called with an output buffer and desired size of pcm output data, it calls a fn to read data from somewhere (I can define the function)`
`22:01.03`	`lardman`	`just wondering whether I can call the ov_read() part as a callback for a bulk transfer (but probably not), or whether to use shared memory and poll to ensure I have enough data on the DSP side`
`22:01.27`	`pupnik`	`yeah`
`22:01.59`	`lardman`	`all rather esoteric unless you happen to have read the docs, so don't worry too much :) ;)`
`22:02.31`	`pupnik`	`anytime you call the output buffer function, your handler code knows the dsp needs another x milliseconds input?`
`22:03.04`	`lardman`	`for implementing tremor, or random dsp stuff or just random stuff?`
`22:03.08`	`lardman`	`Either way, fire away`
`22:03.11`	`*** join/#maemo sp3000 (n=tt@hoasb-ff0ddd00-250.dhcp.inet.fi)`
`22:04.16`	`pupnik`	`well normally i'd expect the vorbisidec to tell the handler 'i want another X frames now please'`
`22:04.46`	`lardman`	`I think a frame can be an arbitrary size`
`22:04.51`	`lardman`	`up to ~1TB`
`22:04.57`	`lardman`	`so rather large in theory`
`22:05.05`	`pupnik`	`oh`
`22:05.50`	`pupnik`	`no point in babbling about it`
`22:05.50`	`lardman`	`So my understanding is that you ask it for a given amount of output, and it reads data in and processes it untill it can complete that request (or less than that request)`
`22:06.01`	`lardman`	`less presumably if it would need to start decoding another portion, etc.`
`22:06.18`	`pupnik`	`*my babbling`
`22:06.31`	`*** join/#maemo straind (n=stupidpe@n080s062.bbr1.shentel.net)`
`22:06.31`	`pupnik`	`ok`
`22:06.39`	`lardman`	`The problem for me is that the input (compressed) data can be arbitrarily large, and I need to define a buffer at compile time`
`22:06.52`	`lardman`	`pupnik: Babbling is good, helps with ideas`
`22:07.18`	`pupnik`	`what about two input buffers?`
`22:07.32`	`pupnik`	`it reads from one, you write to the next one`
`22:07.41`	`pupnik`	`data always available`
`22:07.42`	`lardman`	`ah, there's another caveat`
`22:07.45`	`straind`	`lardman: Did my son's babbling help with any ideas?`
`22:07.59`	`lardman`	`straind: I thought he's struck again!`
`22:08.14`	`lardman`	`straind: yep, thank him for me with the following: "ndisnldaihda;fosajf"`
`22:08.58`	`straind`	`He's sure to get more out of than than anyone else. BBL. Switching desktops so he won't do it again...`
`22:09.01`	`lardman`	`The caveat being that I'd prefer to keep the code intact rather than pulling out and implementing each of the 'page' decompression steps`
`22:09.20`	`lardman`	`and that means that the ov_read() call has to return`
`22:09.42`	`*** join/#maemo edt (n=Ed@dsl-149-135.aei.ca)`
`22:09.52`	`lardman`	`In the dspgateway, to obtain data from ARM, you generally make a call to ask for it, then return, and a callback funtion is run when the data is ready`
`22:10.01`	`lardman`	`this isn't going to work with ov`
`22:10.05`	`lardman`	`_read`
`22:10.09`	`*** join/#maemo vims0r (n=vims@dslb-084-061-001-065.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`22:10.34`	`edt`	`any ideas on why the application installer does not get started when I click on a .deb file from the garage?`
`22:10.40`	`pupnik`	`why not lardman?`
`22:11.27`	`straind`	`Perhaps I should recruit my son to help me with this bluetooth thing as he randomly presses the keys.`
`22:11.29`	`pupnik`	`ov_read() is not returning?`
`22:12.07`	`lardman`	`ov_read() must return the data in a buffer, but to obtain data from the ARM side I have to request the data, then let the function return so that my callback can be called`
`22:12.11`	`*** join/#maemo Luria (n=ibnNagre@dyn-160-39-254-47.dyn.columbia.edu)`
`22:12.57`	`Luria`	`sitting at my ham test, waiting ...`
`22:13.14`	`lardman`	`honey glazed?`
`22:13.25`	`edt`	`I have run: update-mime-database /usr/share/mime, osso-update-category-database /usr/share/mime & update-desktop-database to try to fix the problem...`
`22:13.29`	`straind`	`Virginia ham?`
`22:13.45`	`Luria`	`radio kind`
`22:13.59`	`lardman`	`well you might still be glazed then :)`
`22:14.08`	`pupnik`	`what happens edt? do you get prompted to download the .deb?`
`22:14.12`	`Luria`	`not as tasty, but much more geektastic`
`22:15.37`	`edt`	`pupnik yes. stranger still if I go to www.mulliner.org and try the .deb files there they work. I am begining to suspect its a garage problem...`
`22:15.46`	`lardman`	`pupnik: There is a possible, nice way around the problem, in ov_read(), block (semaphore) until enough data is available in a local buffer, and while blocked a lowe priority task can run and fill the buffer`
`22:16.00`	`lardman`	`pupnik: I'm not sure I can transfer data between tasks though`
`22:16.02`	`*** join/#maemo sp3000 (n=tt@hoasb-ff0ddd00-250.dhcp.inet.fi)`
`22:17.04`	`edt`	`garage uses https and mulliner uses http. On mulliner its reconized as application/x-debian-package, on garage the type is unknown.`
`22:17.31`	`edt`	`the garage package was/is the 1.60 version of UKMP`
`22:17.42`	`*** join/#maemo VRe (n=vre@vre.iki.fi)`
`22:18.00`	`pupnik`	`looks like you've hit upon an issue that affects many people edt`
`22:18.05`	`pupnik`	`is this a new problem`
`22:19.07`	`edt`	`I have install from the garage many times. Just got back from vacation and now the garage installs fail to work...`
`22:19.23`	`derf`	`lardman: You shouldn't need threads or tasks or whatever to decode data.`
`22:19.29`	`derf`	`What exactly is the problem you're trying to solve?`
`22:20.52`	`lardman`	`derf: To interface with the DSP kernel I must use at least one task`
`22:21.03`	`lardman`	`derf: Tremor (vorbis) on the DSP in the n800`
`22:21.15`	`derf`	`Yes, I know _that_ much.`
`22:21.23`	`lardman`	`sorry`
`22:21.40`	`lardman`	`do you know anything about vorbis, and how it's functions work?`
`22:22.14`	`lardman`	`My main issue is that a frame of data is arbitrarily sized (so I understand) so to implement a callback on the DSP side that reads some amount of data and then retutns PCM data...`
`22:22.19`	`derf`	`Absolutely I do.`
`22:22.34`	`lardman`	`won't necessarily work, as I may not get enough data (or I may get too much)`
`22:22.43`	`derf`	`"Frames" are not arbitrarily sized.`
`22:23.00`	`lardman`	`vorbis 'frames' rather than ogg ones?`
`22:23.15`	`derf`	`Ogg doesn't know anything about frames.`
`22:23.34`	`lardman`	`but it has pages of some size, wanted to make sure that's not what we're talking about`
`22:24.16`	`derf`	`Ogg has pages. Pages store compressed packets. Packets decode into uncompressed blocks. Blocks contain many frames, where a frame contains one (1) sample from each channel.`
`22:24.30`	`derf`	`At least using the Vorbis documentation's terminology.`
`22:24.40`	`lardman`	`Okay, so I ideally want to read the data for a packet and decompress it`
`22:24.43`	`derf`	`I will assume you meant "blocks".`
`22:24.56`	`lardman`	`okay`
`22:25.15`	`lardman`	`sorry about my poor terminology`
`22:25.22`	`derf`	`No, it's no problem.`
`22:25.41`	`derf`	`Anyway...`
`22:25.43`	`pupnik`	`reading that, i'd think you'd be fetching packets`
`22:25.52`	`lardman`	`So I need to read packets, then decompress them, etc`
`22:25.53`	`edt`	`using wget shows:`
`22:25.57`	`edt`	`WARNING: Certificate verification error for garage.maemo.org: unable to get local issuer certificate`
`22:26.07`	`derf`	`You are using vorbisfile, correct?`
`22:26.14`	`edt`	`could this be an issue triggering the garage error?`
`22:26.15`	`*** join/#maemo pdz (n=paul@135.14.169.217.in-addr.arpa)`
`22:26.16`	`derf`	`Since you're using ov_read.`
`22:26.33`	`pupnik`	`edt - i assume so, and i assume the garage maintainer must know about it`
`22:26.39`	`lardman`	`derf: I was basing on the lowmem-no-byte branch of Tremor`
`22:26.58`	`derf`	`vorbisfile will handle reading the pages, parsing out the packets, and decompressing the blocks.`
`22:27.13`	`lardman`	`ah, but there is the problem`
`22:27.21`	`edt`	`would you know if a bug has been filed? If not I will open one - its the only way to be sure the maintainer really does know.`
`22:27.33`	`lardman`	`derf: I need to pass data to the DSP, where ov_read will be running`
`22:27.55`	`lardman`	`derf: Therefore I need to either know how much to pass, or to be able to let the code ask for arbitrary amounts of data from the ARM`
`22:28.36`	`derf`	`Are you really running all of ov_read on the DSP?`
`22:28.46`	`lardman`	`derf: My goal here is to get all of the code running on the DSP, then think about splitting it across both the ARM and DSP`
`22:29.05`	`lardman`	`so the answer is not yet, but that looks like the easiest way to see if it works`
`22:29.44`	`derf`	`Well, the way ov_read currently works is, it buffers the available from one packet's worth of data.`
`22:30.22`	`derf`	`If you ask for data and it has none, it will decode one packet, and then return you data from that packet up to the amount you asked for.`
`22:30.30`	`lardman`	`yep`
`22:30.57`	`lardman`	`does it read in exactly one packet's worth of data from file/callback fn`
`22:31.03`	`derf`	`If it had some data left over from the last packet, it returns that.`
`22:31.25`	`derf`	`lardman: It reads exactly enough pages to be able to decode one additional packet.`
`22:32.20`	`derf`	`If you ask for more data than is immediately availble (from the previous packet, or from the just decoded packet if it didn't have any left over from the previous packet), it returns what was available, and no more.`
`22:32.33`	`lardman`	`ah, okay, that's good`
`22:32.50`	`*** join/#maemo eichi (n=eichi@p3EE0757C.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`22:33.01`	`lardman`	`so I could set my buffer size to be large enough to hold the pages to decode one packet`
`22:33.14`	`lardman`	`assuming I can know that at compile time?`
`22:33.33`	`derf`	`Buffer for which direction, compressed data to the DSP, or uncompressed data back?`
`22:33.50`	`lardman`	`compressed to DSP, the other way doesn't matter too much`
`22:34.07`	`lardman`	`as I can just keep calling ov_read to get rid of it`
`22:34.22`	`lardman`	`I think...`
`22:34.39`	`derf`	`Well, technically the size of the compressed packets is in fact unbounded.`
`22:34.52`	`lardman`	`yeah, that was my worry`
`22:35.01`	`*** join/#maemo booiiing_ (i=[booiiin@gateway/tor/x-6aa37c5cd4382671)`
`22:35.08`	`derf`	`At least from the Ogg level.`
`22:35.14`	`derf`	`There may be a Vorbis-specific maximum.`
`22:35.56`	`derf`	`The size of a page is limited to just under 64K.`
`22:36.03`	`lardman`	`I couldn't find one mentioned, though it must be possible to calculate at runtime`
`22:36.04`	`derf`	`But a packet can span multiple pages.`
`22:37.43`	`derf`	`Let's see what the DirectShow filters use, since they also require fixed-size buffers...`
`22:38.06`	`lardman`	`they have more memory to play with than I do`
`22:38.29`	`lardman`	`from what I read on the ml, ~0.5Mb is reckoned to be enough`
`22:38.30`	`derf`	`That's true. What neighborhood are you looking for?`
`22:38.38`	`*** join/#maemo booiiing_ (i=[booiiin@gateway/tor/x-50f8b1b42014ceac)`
`22:39.02`	`lardman`	`Not sure to tell the truth, my total memory is something like 64kb`
`22:39.10`	`lardman`	`but that is shared by the kernel too`
`22:39.24`	`derf`	`The buffer comes out of that?`
`22:39.30`	`lardman`	`If I memory map, I think I can access up to 16Mb, which would be enough`
`22:39.41`	`lardman`	`Yes, that's my understanding of it`
`22:39.52`	`derf`	`You're probably going to have to memory map, then.`
`22:39.57`	`lardman`	`DSP kernel, not Linux kernel`
`22:40.05`	`derf`	`Yes, I realize that.`
`22:40.21`	`derf`	`A single Ogg page is allowed to be almost 64KB by itself.`
`22:40.31`	`derf`	`And a packet can certainly span 2 pages.`
`22:40.48`	`derf`	`Regardless of the packet's actual size.`
`22:40.58`	`lardman`	`I think it may turn out to be easier to pick apart the Tremor code and only run part of it on the DSP`
`22:41.12`	`derf`	`That was my thought as well.`
`22:41.28`	`lardman`	`I'd just hoped I could get some test code running quickly`
`22:41.59`	`derf`	`I'm not sure you can do anything with 64K quickly.`
`22:42.05`	`lardman`	`:)`
`22:42.32`	`lardman`	`It looks like the code I need to target is localised in dsp.c`
`22:43.23`	`lardman`	`though decompression of the tables, etc., ought to be done on the DSP too`
`22:43.45`	`lardman`	`as they will only be needed there`
`22:44.17`	`derf`	`Hmm, it had been so long since I updated my copy I didn't even have a dsp.c.`
`22:44.20`	`derf`	`I wonder when that got added.`
`22:44.40`	`derf`	`Oh, in June.`
`22:45.14`	`lardman`	`it contains vorbis_dsp_pcmout called from ov_read`
`22:45.31`	`lardman`	`which I guess does the work`
`22:46.19`	`lardman`	`what is vf->vd ?`
`22:46.37`	`derf`	`vorbisfile's Vorbis decoder.`
`22:46.49`	`lardman`	`ah, so it contains the tables, etc.`
`22:46.56`	`derf`	`vorbis_dsp_state.`
`22:47.13`	`derf`	`Yes.`
`22:47.18`	`*** join/#maemo shackan (n=frob@host4-150-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)`
`22:47.52`	`derf`	`Anyway, dsp.c is really just the high-level driver.`
`22:47.59`	`lardman`	`hmm, dsp.c has a lot of calls into libogg, which is inconvenient`
`22:48.57`	`derf`	`Well, libogg also contains the bitpacker, needed to read the bits from the packet.`
`22:49.24`	`lardman`	`that can be done on the ARM side before the buffer is passed to the DSP`
`22:49.36`	`lardman`	`it's just where to make the split really`
`22:49.43`	`lardman`	`need to do more reading`
`22:49.55`	`derf`	`I mean, the part that pulls out individual bits, not bytes.`
`22:50.11`	`lardman`	`ah`
`22:54.21`	`derf`	`Something else to worry about later (when you're not just trying to get something running quickly), is if the codebooks will even fit in 64k.`
`22:54.31`	`lardman`	`yeah`
`22:54.34`	`derf`	`I'm pretty sure all the ones produced by the reference encoder will.`
`22:54.52`	`lardman`	`just wondering if I'd be better off just implementing the mdct_unroll_lap() fn on the DSP`
`22:56.06`	`Darksmurf`	`so..I just got my tablet. I was trying to add 'Http://repository.maemo.org/' as a repository (thats where osso-xterm is supposed to be I thought) and it failed. I had to add /extras to the end. Is that the way its supposed to be, or is there something I'm missing?`
`22:56.22`	`derf`	`I would think you'd want mdct_backward also.`
`22:56.32`	`derf`	`As that's really the bulk of the work, IIRC.`
`22:56.57`	`lardman`	`yep, didn't see where that was called from`
`22:57.07`	`derf`	`From mapping0.c`
`22:57.56`	`derf`	`vorbis_dsp_synthesis to mapping_inverse to mdct_backward.`
`22:58.15`	`lardman`	`right, got it`
`23:00.17`	`*** join/#maemo bipolar (n=bflong@70.44.53.89)`
`23:01.54`	`lardman`	`looking at _fetch_and_process_packet(), I need to encapsulate all of the dsp functions and whatever they call`
`23:02.24`	`lardman`	`<PROTECTED>`
`23:02.29`	`lardman`	`argh, markup`
`23:02.58`	`Darksmurf`	`whats better, dropbear or openssh on the 770?`
`23:03.36`	`lardman`	`Darksmurf: dropbear only ever used to do scp, not sftp`
`23:03.54`	`Darksmurf`	`thanks`
`23:04.50`	`*** join/#maemo jufo (i=jufo@87-94-131-248.tampere.customers.dnainternet.fi)`
`23:06.31`	`*** join/#maemo Luria (n=ibnNagre@dyn-160-39-254-47.dyn.columbia.edu)`
`23:06.46`	`derf`	`lardman: Are you going to be releasing source for this at some point?`
`23:06.55`	`lardman`	`of course`
`23:06.59`	`Luria`	`well, i'm i licenced technician ham.`
`23:07.17`	`Luria`	`not to be confused with a ham technician`
`23:07.39`	`derf`	`I may try to do something similar for Theora at some point, but I don't actually know anything about the N800's DSP.`
`23:08.38`	`lardman`	`well I can help with that, though I've only learned as I've gone along`
`23:08.49`	`lardman`	`an interesting pass-time`
`23:08.51`	`derf`	`Well, having a working example to cheat from is a big help.`
`23:09.19`	`lardman`	`theora is slightly more difficult, because the n800 doesn't do direct framebuffer access from the DSP anymore`
`23:09.23`	`lardman`	`I don;t know why`
`23:09.45`	`derf`	`Hardware scaling issues, maybe?`
`23:09.54`	`Luria`	`a working example to cheat from is called scientific progress.`
`23:09.54`	`lardman`	`with that said, there is no info about doing direct audio codec out either, but hopefully when a couple of codecs turn up (kulve is working on Speex) then Nokia will see the light`
`23:10.29`	`lardman`	`derf: Not sure, but it's possible to map the framebuffer according to the docs, like the 770 did`
`23:10.38`	`lardman`	`Luria: Exactly :)`
`23:11.36`	`derf`	`I've met a couple of the Nokia multimedia guys if you want me to try to ping them for help.`
`23:12.20`	`lardman`	`I was sent some source for Tremor on the C55 by a chap from Fluendo, but thought I'd start out by learning the hard way`
`23:12.43`	`lardman`	`Plus the code I was sent was not directly implementable, if that makes sense`
`23:12.56`	`derf`	`I meant help with info about doing direct audio out.`
`23:13.12`	`lardman`	`But yes, if you can ask nicely for some headers/example code for audio out that would be very useful`
`23:13.28`	`lardman`	`I have a bug for it, let me find the number`
`23:13.33`	`pupnik`	`i have 5 games that use ogg`
`23:13.37`	`derf`	`If you give me an e-mail address, I'll cc you.`
`23:14.05`	`lardman`	`derf: s dot g dot pickering at bath dot ac dot uk`
`23:14.21`	`lardman`	`pupnik: The more the merrier`
`23:15.14`	`lardman`	`derf: Can the packet size be calculated at runtime?`
`23:15.34`	`lardman`	`derf: and is it constant for all packets (I fear not)?`
`23:15.40`	`derf`	`You mean the maximum packet size?`
`23:15.50`	`lardman`	`well more for a given file`
`23:16.03`	`derf`	`Right... in theory it would depend on the codebooks.`
`23:16.07`	`lardman`	`so I can tell the ARM how much memory to reserve`
`23:16.17`	`derf`	`But I suspect it will not be much different from your "half a meg" estimate.`
`23:16.38`	`lardman`	`The codebooks are large, but they only appear once don;t they?`
`23:16.47`	`lardman`	`in the header?`
`23:16.53`	`Luria`	`speaking of which - are there any in/out splitters for the noika 3.5mm jack?`
`23:17.08`	`derf`	`lardman: Yes, the codebooks only appear once.`
`23:17.25`	`derf`	`But I mean, if the VQ codebook has a 32-bit entry in it, presumably you could have a packet stuffed with those.`
`23:17.57`	`lardman`	`derf: But I should be able to work out how large it will be to pass over, and say no if it's too big`
`23:18.07`	`lardman`	`pass over to the DSP that is`
`23:18.28`	`derf`	`You can calculate the actual packet size from the data in the pages.`
`23:18.53`	`lardman`	`But does that mean I need to scan the whole file before I can allocate memory, or is it in the header?`
`23:19.06`	`derf`	`It's different for every packet.`
`23:19.15`	`lardman`	`hmm`
`23:19.29`	`lardman`	`I now understand the talk on the mailing list about defining limits to the sizes`
`23:19.49`	`derf`	`Yeah, the spec is fairly unbounded.`
`23:20.26`	`lardman`	`not the end of the world though, I can scan the file as I'm only writing some test code`
`23:21.25`	`derf`	`We had a similar problem when spec'ing out Theora: we weren't hardware people, and we had real trouble finding any who would give us input as to what reasonable limits would be.`
`23:22.13`	`lardman`	`I suppose what one could do is see what common encoders produce, and see if there are any complaints about the decoder failing`
`23:22.35`	`derf`	`For Vorbis I believe that's what most people do.`
`23:22.39`	`*** join/#maemo telexl (n=lex@host86-138-207-192.range86-138.btcentralplus.com)`
`23:22.59`	`derf`	`I think Monty also has some specially designed test files.`
`23:23.29`	`telexl`	`hi folks. I'm having some trouble with my Bluetooth keyboard on the N800 - is this the right place to get help about such things?`
`23:23.53`	`lardman`	`telexl: yes, ask away and see if anyone can help`
`23:24.10`	`telexl`	`lardman: thanks. I'll ask. It's a bit technical.`
`23:24.48`	`Darksmurf`	`is there a way to enable hostusb w/o the flasher?`
`23:24.51`	`telexl`	`My bluetooth keyboard is a Nokia SU-8W. It's supported, but the keymap is incomplete: when I press the '/" key, I get a blank key and the doublequote doesn't work at all.`
`23:25.05`	`telexl`	`I was wondering if I could fix it and where hwkbd stores its configs.`
`23:26.16`	`*** join/#maemo zodman (n=zodman@189.151.70.240)`
`23:26.20`	`lardman`	`derf: hmm, looks like I need to define the mmap and/or buffer sizes at compile time for the DSP`
`23:26.41`	`lardman`	`derf: so I'll try the 'most common sizes' approach`
`23:27.10`	`lardman`	`telexl: You trawled through the mailing list archive?`
`23:27.37`	`lardman`	`derf: Then implement the dsp functions on the DSP - the ogg_bitpack stuff looks reasonable`
`23:27.38`	`telexl`	`lardman: no - I Googled for an answer and found the IRC logs for this channel. Someone mentioned xmodmap.`
`23:28.05`	`telexl`	`lardman: I'm not sure where to look for help on these things - Nokia or Maemo.org?`
`23:28.05`	`lardman`	`http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-developers/`
`23:28.19`	`jjazz`	`telexl: What's wrong with using xmodmap?`
`23:28.35`	`telexl`	`jjazz: Nothing - I don't have it though, or can't find it.`
`23:28.45`	`jjazz`	`telexl: I packaged it. I can email it to you.`
`23:29.11`	`telexl`	`jjazz: thanks! brooknet (at) imap (dot) cc is my address.`
`23:29.12`	`derf`	`Keyboard config is usually in /usr/share/X11/xkb`
`23:29.27`	`derf`	`Not sure about on the N800.`
`23:29.43`	`telexl`	`derf: Thanks. I'm logged in now and am looking at that dir.`
`23:30.30`	`lardman`	`Also try /etc/X11/`
`23:30.45`	`lardman`	`at least on the Zaurus it used to live somewhere under /etc`
`23:31.13`	`*** join/#maemo svu (n=svu@89.101.232.199)`
`23:31.14`	`telexl`	`Great, this makes sense.`
`23:31.21`	`lardman`	`derf: Thanks for your help, bed time`
`23:31.24`	`lardman`	`Night all`
`23:32.01`	`telexl`	`jjazz: don't suppose you have xev too?`
`23:32.09`	`jjazz`	`telexl: Of course.`
`23:32.14`	`jjazz`	`I'll send it with xmodmap`
`23:32.33`	`telexl`	`jjazz: thank you kindly - that'd be very helpful.`
`23:33.42`	`telexl`	`My name's Lex, by the way.`
`23:33.43`	`jjazz`	`telexl: Sent them to you.`
`23:34.04`	`jjazz`	`Mine's james.`
`23:34.15`	`telexl`	`jjazz: Ta. I can do this all remotely.. cool`
`23:35.03`	`jjazz`	`I should really set up a repository for the maemo packages I build.`
`23:35.37`	`erstazi`	`jjazz: for what maemo do you package for?`
`23:35.43`	`jjazz`	`erstazi: n800`
`23:36.10`	`erstazi`	`jjazz: ah, OS2007, well, I am looking at packaging PocketSphinx for both OS2006 and OS2007`
`23:36.27`	`erstazi`	`I think that is something that no one else has done yet`
`23:36.44`	`erstazi`	`which is speech to text...`
`23:36.54`	`*** join/#maemo pdz- (n=paul@135.14.169.217.in-addr.arpa)`
`23:37.01`	`jjazz`	`erstazi: You realize that Sphinx isn't a full speech to text engine, right?`
`23:37.17`	`erstazi`	`jjazz: yes`
`23:37.36`	`erstazi`	`jjazz: but to get a full speech to text engine that is open source is hard to find`
`23:37.59`	`jjazz`	`erstazi: ok. I spent a lot of time at the cross section of linux and speech recognition and it's... depressing.`
`23:38.01`	`erstazi`	`I realize the limitations, especially the part about different languages and dialects`
`23:38.12`	`telexl`	`jjazz and everyone, thanks for your help. I'm off now to answer mails and have some lunch.`
`23:38.13`	`erstazi`	`jjazz: yes, I realize that, and I feel the same`
`23:38.17`	`jjazz`	`telexl: Have fun.`
`23:38.25`	`telexl`	`thanks! bye`
`23:38.36`	`erstazi`	`it is depressing, I think the first step is to promote the ones that are attempting speech to text`
`23:38.48`	`jjazz`	`erstazi: Sphinx for some simple voice command stuff would be very cool.`
`23:38.54`	`erstazi`	`yes exactly`
`23:38.59`	`erstazi`	`thats what I was aiming for`
`23:39.31`	`jjazz`	`Speaking of packaging things, has anybody packaged tomboy? I couldn't quite get the mono build environment working in scratchbox.`
`23:39.31`	`erstazi`	`jjazz: but before I attempt pocketsphinx, I want to understand hildonizing more heh, which is relearning gnome again`
`23:40.07`	`jjazz`	`erstazi: I don't claim to know anything about hildonizing apps.`
`23:40.30`	`erstazi`	`jjazz: not saying that you do, I just need to read up more`
`23:40.54`	`*** join/#maemo dougb (n=Administ@bdsl.66.12.249.106.gte.net)`
`23:41.24`	`dougb`	`hi, i was wondering if there is a pptp application for the n800?`
`23:41.33`	`jjazz`	`I looked at it briefly. There are some apps I might have a go at, but I've only had the device a few weeks, so for now I'm still soaking it in.`
`23:42.04`	`erstazi`	`jjazz: thats good, the maemo dev community is very active`
`23:42.15`	`erstazi`	`the maemo community as a whole is a great community`
`23:42.47`	`erstazi`	`I have been part of other *nix communities and usually there is too much infighting that nothing gets done`
`23:43.09`	`jjazz`	`erstazi: Yeah, seems like there's a lot of good work being done. It would be nice if we had a central repository for unofficial debs. I'm sort of hoping one emerges.`
`23:43.19`	`erstazi`	`but what I have found is, people who usually have a tablet are business orientated`
`23:43.50`	`erstazi`	`jjazz: well, I understand that and agree...`
`23:44.23`	`erstazi`	`I wish a lot of packages could be merged into extras with the maemo repo`
`23:44.55`	`*** part/#maemo vivijim (n=vivijim@200.184.118.132)`
`23:45.25`	`jjazz`	`erstazi: I can understand why Nokia doesn't want to host all those packages. What's needed is a third-party host that's generally trusted, has some procedures in place for vetting package maintainers, etc.`
`23:45.46`	`erstazi`	`jjazz: I think thats what maemo.org is for`
`23:46.33`	`jjazz`	`erstazi: Are they vetting packages in any way at maemo.org?`
`23:46.35`	`erstazi`	`jjazz: and nokia supports maemo... but people who put up their own repos probably found the issue probably of including into the repos of maemo`
`23:46.38`	`*** join/#maemo pdz- (n=paul@135.14.169.217.in-addr.arpa)`
`23:46.41`	`erstazi`	`jjazz: some are`
`23:46.55`	`jjazz`	`erstazi: I didn't realize.`
`23:48.16`	`erstazi`	`jjazz: yeah, it goes through a process`
`23:48.51`	`erstazi`	`jjazz: let me grab my info first before speaking on it`
`23:49.11`	`jjazz`	`s'ok. I can go read the maemo.org website.`
`23:49.49`	`erstazi`	`basically, for applications that are still in development and not yet end-user ready they go to ApplicationCatalogWip.`
`23:50.12`	`erstazi`	`some are planned and then there is a wishlist also`
`23:50.38`	`*** join/#maemo MaemoUser (n=MaemoUse@189.25.90.145)`
`23:50.42`	`erstazi`	`jjazz: for project hosting use the Garage`
`23:50.49`	`erstazi`	`(garage.maemo.org)`
`23:54.49`	`jjazz`	`erstazi: Ah. I see garage projects can be included in the extras repo at their invitation.`
`23:55.05`	`jjazz`	`So it's not as bleak as I thought. But still, the repository lacks too many apps.`
`23:57.49`	`*** join/#maemo hein (i=ehs1@dslb-088-073-011-134.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`23:58.12`	`erstazi`	`jjazz: well some apps would be too complex to port`
`23:58.27`	`erstazi`	`mainly because they would consume too much power or ram`
`23:58.30`	`erstazi`	`or space`
`23:58.41`	`erstazi`	`like I was surprised to see vncviewer as a working app`
`23:59.06`	`erstazi`	`I use it sometimes to play games on my windows box (I primarily use Linux everything but games)`
`23:59.24`	`erstazi`	`but I use vncviewer and rdesktop a lot with my work`
`23:59.46`	`pupnik`	`ncxlient would be a fun project`
`23:59.47`	`erstazi`	`and it surprises me that they are both working applications`
`23:59.52`	`erstazi`	`nxclient?`
`23:59.58`	`pupnik`	`freenx`

Generated by irclog2html.pl Modified by Tim Riker to work with infobot.