IRC log for #maemo on 20070818

`00:00.00`	`*** part/#maemo r3pek (n=r3pek@gentoo/developer/r3pek)`
`00:05.09`	`*** join/#maemo greentux_ (n=lemke@Z5926.z.pppool.de)`
`00:09.19`	`*** join/#maemo bipolar_ (n=bflong@216-164-162-138.pa.subnet.cable.rcn.com)`
`00:17.42`	`trevarthan`	`http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8937&page=2`
`00:18.13`	`kulve`	`lardman\|gone: I haven't yet tried it.`
`00:21.53`	`*** join/#maemo Junior_23 (n=gutember@201.79.160.32)`
`00:22.34`	`Junior_23`	`Plz, anyone know how to make an adhoc connection with a n800???`
`00:23.25`	`Junior_23`	`im geting local ip addres all the time and i cant open anything in the browser`
`00:23.26`	`*** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@98.64.124.24.cm.sunflower.com)`
`00:24.00`	`pupnik`	`that would be another good wiki article`
`00:25.29`	`kulve`	`Junior_23: uhm, aren't you supposed to get local IP only with ad-hoc..`
`00:25.45`	`kulve`	`there's no-one to give that address..`
`00:26.10`	`pupnik`	`<PROTECTED>`
`00:26.33`	`Junior_23`	`its using dhcp...`
`00:27.15`	`kulve`	`isn't the whole point of ad-hoc to work without dhcp.. I might be wrong here..`
`00:29.44`	`Junior_23`	`well... when i used a computer to share the internet with an adhoc network it worked fine... but i did the same with the n800 and i always get this... and the connection icon is with a red quetion mark...`
`00:31.07`	`Junior_23`	`im really newbie with this... ive get my n800 today... so theres a lot of things that i dont know how to do...`
`00:33.43`	`*** join/#maemo dolske (n=dolske@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com)`
`00:33.56`	`*** join/#maemo matt_c_ (n=mcroydon@98.64.124.24.cm.sunflower.com)`
`00:37.23`	`Junior_23`	`i saw a lot of people with this problem when connecting the n800 with a computer-to-computer network... but no answers about it...`
`00:40.03`	`erstazi`	`pupnik: are you still here?`
`00:41.23`	`erstazi`	`Junior_23: normally, I just connect to a wlan`
`00:42.08`	`erstazi`	`Junior_23: does the laptop/computer/whatever allow sharing of internet connection?`
`00:42.13`	`*** join/#maemo \|tbb1 (n=user@p50815DE7.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`00:42.22`	`shackan`	`erstazi: of course it's possible`
`00:42.57`	`Junior_23`	`yeah... im sharing the connection... but always it catch a local ip in wal0:1 interface`
`00:43.05`	`erstazi`	`shackan: I never said it wasn't`
`00:43.07`	`Junior_23`	`ops... wlan0:1`
`00:43.26`	`shackan`	`Junior_23: windows or linux ?`
`00:43.32`	`Junior_23`	`mac os x`
`00:43.41`	`shackan`	`ah :\`
`00:43.58`	`shackan`	`no idea how to enable dhcp there, sorry`
`00:44.23`	`Junior_23`	`whats the interface that the n800 have to catch an ip??`
`00:44.32`	`Junior_23`	`is it wlan0 or wlan0:1??`
`00:44.36`	`shackan`	`wlan0`
`00:45.04`	`Junior_23`	`hmmm... so it isnt getting an ip...`
`00:45.30`	`erstazi`	`Junior_23: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=35821`
`00:45.44`	`rik`	`hi`
`00:45.44`	`_Monkey`	`hey, rik`
`00:46.48`	`Junior_23`	`:D, thx erstazi... ill read this..`
`00:50.41`	`rik`	`right. time to install kismet. again.`
`00:53.34`	`*** join/#maemo gomiam (n=user@26.Red-81-34-9.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)`
`00:53.44`	`rik`	`uh. is there a way of installing a .deb but following dependancies using catalogs? i've got the .deb on disk here.`
`00:53.56`	`gomiam`	`?`
`00:57.06`	`gomiam`	`rik: I was thinking of 2-clicking it from the file manager so it would launch the app mgr, but I do't know if that will work`
`00:57.31`	`rik`	`i'll give t a try`
`00:57.46`	`gomiam`	`((Typing on the N800 is slooow:)`
`00:58.56`	`gomiam`	`I'll have to find a cheap HID foldable bluetooth keyboard :)`
`00:59.10`	`gomiam`	`Bye all`
`00:59.23`	`*** part/#maemo gomiam (n=user@26.Red-81-34-9.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)`
`01:01.45`	`*** join/#maemo Pio (n=sean@h175.149.4.12.cable.frzr.cablerocket.net)`
`01:03.47`	`*** join/#maemo Blacksitox (n=fuckyou@unaffiliated/blacksito)`
`01:04.37`	`Blacksitox`	`re`
`01:19.12`	`*** join/#maemo NeoStrider (n=daniel@cm-tvcidade-nri-C8B1D613.dynamic.brdterra.com.br)`
`01:20.56`	`*** join/#maemo xeos (n=user@192.Red-83-37-232.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)`
`01:21.12`	`*** join/#maemo rhys (n=rhys@adsl-75-60-200-218.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net)`
`01:21.28`	`*** part/#maemo aoirthoir39 (n=giorrais@wsip-68-99-156-37.ri.ri.cox.net)`
`01:22.25`	`*** part/#maemo xeos (n=user@192.Red-83-37-232.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)`
`01:23.32`	`*** join/#maemo sully (i=sully@CPE00508d7bbe5b-CM00159a07f436.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`01:24.13`	`*** join/#maemo Pio_ (n=sean@h175.149.4.12.cable.frzr.cablerocket.net)`
`01:25.01`	`NeoStrider`	`hello folks`
`01:31.01`	`rhys`	`ello\`
`01:31.16`	`Blacksitox`	`hola, alguien habla español ¿?`
`01:31.48`	`Blacksitox`	`hello, speak spanish ?`
`01:31.54`	`Blacksitox`	`xD`
`01:39.27`	`bldewolf`	`hablo espanol pequeno`
`01:41.41`	`NeoStrider`	`Blacksitox: un tiquito`
`01:41.50`	`NeoStrider`	`falo português realmente`
`01:42.30`	`bldewolf`	`man, mirc really doesn't like those characters`
`01:43.28`	`Blacksitox`	`bldewolf, de donde eres ? ( where are you from )`
`01:43.55`	`Blacksitox`	`NeoStrider, oh! que bien, aqui pocos hablan español :(`
`01:46.55`	`NeoStrider`	`si, inglês es la norma aqui`
`01:52.35`	`Blacksitox`	`NeoStrider, bueno, solo me queda leer nada mas :(`
`01:54.03`	`*** join/#maemo DaniloCesar (n=Danilo@200-181-169-180.ctame705.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br)`
`01:54.06`	`rik`	`hm`
`01:54.12`	`rik`	`okay. pim apps recommendations, anyone?`
`01:56.08`	`sully`	`shucks. Freedom Mini Keyboard isn't working.`
`01:56.25`	`DaniloCesar`	`Hi Everybody`
`01:59.09`	`NeoStrider`	`hello Danilo`
`02:00.40`	`DaniloCesar`	`Thanks! Someone answered me =)`
`02:01.12`	`DaniloCesar`	`Where are U from Neo?`
`02:01.27`	`*** join/#maemo Artemisprime (n=user@CPE-65-30-176-32.wi.res.rr.com)`
`02:01.40`	`Artemisprime`	`Hi`
`02:02.02`	`DaniloCesar`	`NeoStrider, Where are U from Neo?`
`02:02.05`	`DaniloCesar`	`Artemisprime, Hi!`
`02:02.17`	`NeoStrider`	`RJ,Brazil`
`02:02.20`	`NeoStrider`	`and U?`
`02:02.27`	`NeoStrider`	`hi Artemisprime`
`02:05.45`	`DaniloCesar`	`NeoStrider, I imagined that... You recognized my name in my nickname.... I'm from Brazil too. Curitiba PR specifically.`
`02:06.36`	`DaniloCesar`	`Are U Nokia's or INdT employee?`
`02:07.12`	`NeoStrider`	`not really`
`02:07.24`	`NeoStrider`	`I would love to be one`
`02:07.31`	`NeoStrider`	`but not YET =-)`
`02:08.13`	`DaniloCesar`	`So I'm not the only one that have personal interests in maemo here.. Thanks God... Lol....`
`02:08.53`	`DaniloCesar`	`I'm think that everybody wants to be INdT's employee... LOL =)`
`02:09.54`	`*** join/#maemo Luria (n=trashed@cpe-68-175-110-250.nyc.res.rr.com)`
`02:09.57`	`DaniloCesar`	`NeoStrider, Are you developing something under maemo?`
`02:09.59`	`Luria`	`hola`
`02:10.07`	`NeoStrider`	`holla Luria`
`02:10.12`	`DaniloCesar`	`Luria, Hola! Welcome`
`02:10.13`	`NeoStrider`	`DaniloCesar: a game`
`02:10.14`	`_Monkey`	`somebody said a game was very funny!`
`02:10.15`	`NeoStrider`	`angstron`
`02:10.15`	`_Monkey`	`angstron is http://angstron.garage.maemo.org/`
`02:10.27`	`Luria`	`anyone used pyro on the n800?`
`02:10.30`	`DaniloCesar`	`let me see`
`02:11.22`	`DaniloCesar`	`NeoStrider, Owww! I knew that!`
`02:12.17`	`NeoStrider`	`I've just finished it`
`02:12.18`	`DaniloCesar`	`I saw yours messages on maemo garage asking for testers, right?`
`02:12.23`	`NeoStrider`	`it is now beta =-)`
`02:12.27`	`Luria`	`guess not`
`02:12.27`	`NeoStrider`	`yeah`
`02:12.35`	`NeoStrider`	`still doesnt work well with n800`
`02:12.46`	`DaniloCesar`	`I will try it now!`
`02:12.56`	`DaniloCesar`	`Ow.... really?!??! Its a shame.`
`02:13.03`	`DaniloCesar`	`What is the problem?`
`02:13.04`	`_Monkey`	`the problem is probably that bash depends on debianutils and coreutils, which conflict with busybox, and pretty much everything depends on busybox.`
`02:13.35`	`NeoStrider`	`_Monkey: the problem is that angstron looks for the data files on the wrong place`
`02:13.35`	`_Monkey`	`...but problem is that bash depends on debianutils and coreutils, which conflict with busybox, and pretty much everything depends on busybox....`
`02:13.36`	`NeoStrider`	`;-)`
`02:13.50`	`NeoStrider`	`_Monkey: forget the problem`
`02:13.50`	`_Monkey`	`NeoStrider: I forgot problem`
`02:13.53`	`NeoStrider`	`_Monkey: the problem is that angstron looks for the data files on the wrong place`
`02:13.54`	`_Monkey`	`OK, NeoStrider.`
`02:14.03`	`NeoStrider`	`and yes, Im selfish =-P`
`02:14.18`	`Luria`	`_Monkey, the problem is that monkey forgot that _Monkey is a monkey`
`02:14.19`	`_Monkey`	`...but problem is that angstron looks for the data files on the wrong place...`
`02:14.27`	`Luria`	`or something`
`02:14.36`	`rhys`	`does anyone know how i get jffs2 support in the kernel?`
`02:14.41`	`Luria`	`_Monkey, jump.`
`02:14.42`	`_Monkey`	`Luria: excuse me?`
`02:14.45`	`DaniloCesar`	`_Monkey, The problem is that we need a better bot. Not just a monkey....`
`02:14.45`	`_Monkey`	`...but problem is that angstron looks for the data files on the wrong place...`
`02:14.53`	`Luria`	`_Monkey, climb a tree`
`02:14.54`	`_Monkey`	`Luria: i'm not following you...`
`02:15.08`	`Luria`	`_Monkey, thats cause im not up a tree`
`02:15.08`	`_Monkey`	`Luria: sorry...`
`02:15.32`	`rhys`	`:(`
`02:15.42`	`DaniloCesar`	`NeoStrider, And what do you use to build your app? Pygame, openGL or something like it?`
`02:15.45`	`rhys`	`jffs2 isnt under the filesystem options`
`02:16.08`	`NeoStrider`	`_monkey: problem/`
`02:16.09`	`_Monkey`	`NeoStrider: sorry...`
`02:16.11`	`NeoStrider`	`_monkey: problem?`
`02:16.12`	`_Monkey`	`problem is probably that angstron looks for the data files on the wrong place`
`02:16.18`	`NeoStrider`	`_monkey: forget problem`
`02:16.18`	`_Monkey`	`NeoStrider: I forgot problem`
`02:16.19`	`DaniloCesar`	`_Monkey, The problem is that we need a better bot. Not just a monkey....`
`02:16.20`	`_Monkey`	`OK, DaniloCesar.`
`02:16.20`	`DaniloCesar`	`_Monkey, The problem is that we need a better bot. Not just a monkey....`
`02:16.20`	`_Monkey`	`i already had it that way, DaniloCesar.`
`02:16.24`	`NeoStrider`	`better this way`
`02:16.47`	`NeoStrider`	`DaniloCesar: just plain SDL and SDL_gfx`
`02:16.52`	`NeoStrider`	`I do the 3D on my own`
`02:16.58`	`NeoStrider`	`GL is not suitable`
`02:17.05`	`Luria`	`_Monkey, do you run on maemo?`
`02:17.06`	`_Monkey`	`i haven't a clue, luria`
`02:17.20`	`Luria`	`clearly not self aware.`
`02:17.28`	`DaniloCesar`	`Its a hard job, hãn?`
`02:18.33`	`sully`	`That'd be neat. An IRC bot hosted on a 770.`
`02:19.22`	`Luria`	`why not?`
`02:19.27`	`NeoStrider`	`I once saw a webpage hosted on a MS handheld ;-)`
`02:19.39`	`Luria`	`i think garage is on a n800?`
`02:19.50`	`sully`	`:o`
`02:19.53`	`Luria`	`:-)`
`02:19.54`	`sully`	`you lie like a rug`
`02:20.09`	`DaniloCesar`	`Could N800 host garage? I think that it can! lol`
`02:20.33`	`Luria`	`i doubt anyone would notice ;-)`
`02:20.49`	`Luria`	`so, no one has used pyro on maemo?`
`02:21.03`	`DaniloCesar`	`_Monkey, pyro ?`
`02:21.04`	`_Monkey`	`i don't know, danilocesar`
`02:21.18`	`Luria`	`python remote objects`
`02:21.22`	`NeoStrider`	`actually, I tried mario animated desktop on the 770`
`02:21.26`	`NeoStrider`	`and it works flawlessly`
`02:21.29`	`Luria`	`its a net lib for python`
`02:21.31`	`NeoStrider`	`you guys know it?`
`02:21.35`	`DaniloCesar`	`_Monkey, Pyro is short for PYthon Remote Objects. It is an advanced and powerful Distributed Object Technology system written entirely in Python.`
`02:21.36`	`_Monkey`	`OK, DaniloCesar.`
`02:21.39`	`DaniloCesar`	`_Monkey, pyro ?`
`02:21.40`	`_Monkey`	`pyro is, like, short for PYthon Remote Objects. It is an advanced and powerful Distributed Object Technology system written entirely in Python`
`02:22.21`	`Luria`	`_Monkey, banana ?`
`02:22.22`	`_Monkey`	`wish i knew, luria`
`02:22.28`	`Artemisprime`	`What is mario animated desktop ?`
`02:22.52`	`DaniloCesar`	`Nintendo's Mario? I think that in US it have a another name....`
`02:23.03`	`NeoStrider`	`http://overdrawn.net/mario/`
`02:23.10`	`NeoStrider`	`check it out`
`02:23.34`	`Artemisprime`	`Thanx`
`02:23.55`	`DaniloCesar`	`NeoStrider, forget what I said`
`02:24.37`	`sully`	`This has nothing to do with anything, but it's hilarious. http://www.somethingawful.com/flash/shmorky/babby.swf`
`02:25.01`	`sully`	`(A tribute to the idiocy of Yahoo Answers)`
`02:25.26`	`Artemisprime`	`How do u unzip on maemo`
`02:25.31`	`*** join/#maemo giga (i=Gigabite@c-24-7-75-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`02:25.37`	`Artemisprime`	`I have zip`
`02:25.39`	`DaniloCesar`	`So, a javascript version of Mario... for iphone....`
`02:25.48`	`DaniloCesar`	`unzip filename.zip`
`02:26.05`	`Artemisprime`	`On the cli ?`
`02:26.12`	`NeoStrider`	`not really a game`
`02:26.19`	`NeoStrider`	`just a javascript wallpaper`
`02:26.22`	`DaniloCesar`	`I do on cli...`
`02:26.27`	`NeoStrider`	`but proves that js games can be done on 770`
`02:28.19`	`*** join/#maemo VimS (n=vims@dslb-084-061-023-190.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`02:28.48`	`DaniloCesar`	`Artemisprime, Do you use N800 or 770? On N800 you have a unzip package. So, when you click on zip files it will be automatically unziped.`
`02:30.11`	`Luria`	`speaking of the yahoo answers bit`
`02:30.15`	`DaniloCesar`	`NeoStrider, Is not easier build games with pygame for N770? Pygame is simpler than JS to build games, isn't it?`
`02:30.17`	`Luria`	`it reminds me of http://xkcd.com/202/`
`02:30.35`	`Artemisprime`	`I have 770`
`02:30.47`	`DaniloCesar`	`Artemisprime, OS2006?`
`02:30.53`	`NeoStrider`	`but DaniloCesar, the 770 doesnt bundle the python`
`02:30.58`	`Artemisprime`	`I cant seem to unzip`
`02:31.07`	`Artemisprime`	`Yes os2006`
`02:31.07`	`DaniloCesar`	`NeoStrider, REALLY?!?!?`
`02:31.08`	`_Monkey`	`os2006 is the second ABI (armel) for the Nokia 770`
`02:31.12`	`NeoStrider`	`yeah`
`02:31.24`	`NeoStrider`	`DaniloCesar: yeah`
`02:31.53`	`DaniloCesar`	`NeoStrider, but you can put OS2007 to run under 770 right?`
`02:32.15`	`NeoStrider`	`yes...but then it wont be the end user's machine`
`02:32.35`	`DaniloCesar`	`NeoStrider, Yes... you're right`
`02:32.46`	`Artemisprime`	`Dan; can u help me unzipon this os ?`
`02:32.54`	`NeoStrider`	`im building costumer's entertainment`
`02:33.15`	`Artemisprime`	`Im on the 770 now`
`02:33.43`	`sully`	`Using Pidgin?`
`02:33.47`	`NeoStrider`	`xchat?`
`02:33.48`	`_Monkey`	`i guess xchat is a gtk-based IRC client. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/maemo-xchat/`
`02:33.50`	`DaniloCesar`	`Artemisprime, I don't know how OS2006 works.... Do you have a cli in your n770?`
`02:33.57`	`Artemisprime`	`Yes`
`02:34.12`	`NeoStrider`	`i remember gaim on 770 being quite unstable`
`02:34.19`	`Artemisprime`	`Dan i have xterm installed`
`02:34.24`	`Luria`	`xchat rocks`
`02:34.29`	`NeoStrider`	`sure`
`02:34.32`	`NeoStrider`	`im using it now`
`02:34.32`	`Artemisprime`	`Pidgin works great`
`02:34.35`	`NeoStrider`	`(ubuntu desktop)`
`02:34.37`	`Luria`	`i started using it under windows`
`02:34.38`	`Artemisprime`	`On 770`
`02:34.43`	`Luria`	`(free build)`
`02:34.47`	`sully`	`Are you using a BT keyboard?`
`02:34.56`	`Artemisprime`	`Nope`
`02:34.59`	`DaniloCesar`	`Luria, I use to use xchat under maemo and its very stable and useful`
`02:35.03`	`Luria`	`damn`
`02:35.09`	`Artemisprime`	`Just the stylus`
`02:35.10`	`sully`	`whew, I'd not IRC for fun on the 770.`
`02:35.17`	`NeoStrider`	`tough guy`
`02:35.28`	`DaniloCesar`	`Artemisprime, Do you have unzip packet installed?`
`02:35.28`	`Luria`	`oh, i use xchat on maemo 80% of the time im here`
`02:35.39`	`sully`	`Stylus or BT keyboard?`
`02:35.42`	`NeoStrider`	`i dont have a working wifi here =(`
`02:36.13`	`Luria`	`NeoStrider, you connect with happy thoughts?`
`02:36.16`	`Luria`	`(j/k)`
`02:36.20`	`DaniloCesar`	`Luria, I don't use all time because the maemo's virtual keyboard is not so good....`
`02:36.35`	`NeoStrider`	`I simply use the 770 for debugging`
`02:36.42`	`Artemisprime`	`I have zip installed`
`02:36.43`	`Luria`	`DaniloCesar, its cause i use a bt keyboard`
`02:36.55`	`sully`	`which one, Luria?`
`02:37.01`	`Artemisprime`	`Not unzip`
`02:37.08`	`Luria`	`the small thinkoutside one`
`02:37.12`	`sully`	`I like the Stowaway, but it's odd. I wish the back of it was of a uniform height`
`02:37.15`	`DaniloCesar`	`Luria, 770 or N800? What is your keyboard model?`
`02:37.40`	`DaniloCesar`	`Artemisprime, I think that you need to install this package right?`
`02:37.50`	`DaniloCesar`	`Artemisprime, http://download.maemo.org`
`02:38.04`	`DaniloCesar`	`and search for zip or unzip`
`02:38.06`	`Artemisprime`	`Ok`
`02:38.13`	`Luria`	`hold on they changed the name`
`02:38.20`	`DaniloCesar`	`NeoStrider, Canola?`
`02:38.22`	`Artemisprime`	`I have zip installed`
`02:38.26`	`NeoStrider`	`not really`
`02:38.30`	`NeoStrider`	`just plain media player`
`02:38.41`	`NeoStrider`	`without wifi, I cant install canola`
`02:40.26`	`sully`	`I think you could do a apt-get -d install canola to get the .deb file`
`02:40.26`	`DaniloCesar`	`Artemisprime, And what about unzip package? Have you found it?`
`02:41.04`	`Artemisprime`	`Nope not yet`
`02:41.06`	`NeoStrider`	`sully, wrong arch`
`02:41.49`	`Artemisprime`	`The link u gave me is for repos`
`02:42.47`	`DaniloCesar`	`http://downloads.maemo.org/search/application.html?org_openpsa_products_search%5B1%5D%5Bproperty%5D=description&org_openpsa_products_search%5B1%5D%5Bconstraint%5D=LIKE&org_openpsa_products_search%5B1%5D%5Bvalue%5D=unzip&org_openpsa_products_search%5B2%5D%5Bproperty%5D=os&org_openpsa_products_search%5B2%5D%5Bconstraint%5D=LIKE&org_openpsa_products_search%5B2%5D%5Bvalue%5D=IT2007&org_openpsa_products_search%5B3%5D%5Bpr`
`02:42.48`	`DaniloCesar`	`operty%5D=license&org_openpsa_products_search%5B3%5D%5Bconstraint%5D=LIKE&org_openpsa_products_search%5B3%5D%5Bvalue%5D=&org_openpsa_products_search%5B4%5D%5Bproperty%5D=status&org_openpsa_products_search%5B4%5D%5Bconstraint%5D=LIKE&org_openpsa_products_search%5B4%5D%5Bvalue%5D=&fetch=Fetch%21`
`02:43.07`	`DaniloCesar`	`Better! Just click on this link:`
`02:43.09`	`DaniloCesar`	`http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/gregale/install/unzip.install`
`02:43.30`	`DaniloCesar`	`unzip is able for OS2006 too.`
`02:43.45`	`DaniloCesar`	`Artemisprime, OK?`
`02:44.05`	`Artemisprime`	`That is the repo ?`
`02:44.13`	`Artemisprime`	`For unzip`
`02:44.26`	`*** join/#maemo rhsanborn (n=user@74-36-48-118.br1.aurr.mn.frontiernet.net)`
`02:44.47`	`Luria`	`DaniloCesar, http://www.google.com/products?q=igo+ultra+slim&hl=en&scoring=p`
`02:44.50`	`DaniloCesar`	`Why you dont use the install file?`
`02:44.53`	`Luria`	`um, not the mirror`
`02:45.27`	`Luria`	`on n800`
`02:45.40`	`Luria`	`its good, not perfect`
`02:46.33`	`DaniloCesar`	`Luria, can U connect your BT keyboard and your cell phone at the same time?`
`02:46.50`	`Luria`	`and gps`
`02:46.56`	`DaniloCesar`	`* Bt keyboard + cell phone + N800 (or 770)`
`02:47.03`	`DaniloCesar`	`hummm`
`02:47.06`	`Artemisprime`	`From where ?`
`02:47.22`	`Luria`	`kybd, iblue 757 pro, mot v551 (hacked for edge)`
`02:47.24`	`Artemisprime`	`The install`
`02:47.48`	`DaniloCesar`	`From Nokia's official repository`
`02:48.40`	`Luria`	`DaniloCesar, all running at once`
`02:49.18`	`DaniloCesar`	`Luria, I thought that BT had problems with simultaneous connections`
`02:49.44`	`Luria`	`not that i noticed, though gprs/edge sucks in nyc`
`02:50.13`	`NeoStrider`	`DaniloCesar: are you from any org like indt or embedded academy?`
`02:52.56`	`DaniloCesar`	`Luria, So I never bought a BT keyB because of it. I need of my cellphone's BT connection (EDGE). But if you are saying that U can use more than one BT connection at the same time I will think about buy a KB.`
`02:53.30`	`Luria`	`i have done gps+map downloads`
`02:53.45`	`Luria`	`just choose the right one for your needs`
`02:53.57`	`DaniloCesar`	`NeoStrider, my graduate task is about embedded processors. But I don't work with this stuffs....`
`02:54.49`	`NeoStrider`	`I used to work with 8051's...but it was a long time ago`
`02:54.50`	`DaniloCesar`	`Luria, Here in my country we don't have many options of KB that works with N800...`
`02:55.05`	`NeoStrider`	`now Im just doing gamedev =-)`
`02:55.17`	`DaniloCesar`	`Atmel 8051?`
`02:56.42`	`Luria`	`oh god, im at a cafe where they put the public net with their office machines`
`02:57.01`	`Luria`	`now, i know the staff, and they dont care - ive mentioned this -`
`02:57.04`	`DaniloCesar`	`NeoStrider, I made a Atmel simulator with archC before. Now I working in a Motorola DSP 56**** simulator and trying to build a gnu assembler for it.`
`02:57.30`	`DaniloCesar`	`Do your work with gamedev? For some company, by your self or just for fun?`
`02:57.37`	`Luria`	`but i just noticed they have an hp net printer... without a password`
`02:58.25`	`NeoStrider`	`just for fun`
`02:58.46`	`DaniloCesar`	`Luria, Its very normal here. Some guys still using WEP and thinking that they're safe....`
`02:58.51`	`NeoStrider`	`my games are GPL indeed`
`02:59.14`	`Luria`	`that i can understand`
`02:59.22`	`Luria`	`but they have ethernet jacks`
`02:59.36`	`sully`	`odd, shouldn't any HID keyboard work with the 770? This B-Speech MiniPad doesn't get detected`
`03:00.02`	`Luria`	`if it is hid, yeah`
`03:00.06`	`DaniloCesar`	`NeoStrider, Do U have a website where I can found your job?`
`03:00.16`	`Luria`	`make sure its discoverable`
`03:00.24`	`Luria`	`(obvious, i know)`
`03:00.31`	`NeoStrider`	`I have a blog where I comment my works`
`03:00.37`	`NeoStrider`	`http://corporatedrones.wordpress.com`
`03:01.07`	`sully`	`I think it not being discoverable is the problem, yet I can't get it going`
`03:01.21`	`*** join/#maemo lmoura (n=lauro@189.13.200.32)`
`03:02.39`	`Luria`	`oh cool stuff`
`03:03.03`	`Luria`	`never seen that company`
`03:03.40`	`Luria`	`oh i have seen that keyboard`
`03:03.51`	`Luria`	`i think its rebranded`
`03:03.55`	`sully`	`yeah`
`03:04.06`	`sully`	`Just won't get discoverable for the life of me`
`03:05.03`	`Luria`	`arg i hate java and the jvms that come along with it`
`03:06.55`	`NeoStrider`	`well folks`
`03:06.57`	`NeoStrider`	`got to go`
`03:07.20`	`NeoStrider`	`cya`
`03:07.25`	`Luria`	`did you try fn+bullseye+home key?`
`03:08.03`	`Luria`	`it clears the pairing and sets discoverable`
`03:08.12`	`sully`	`yeah, multiple times. damn thing.`
`03:08.21`	`Luria`	`sorry`
`03:08.51`	`sully`	`no big deal, still got the other keyboard and I didn't pay for either!`
`03:08.56`	`Luria`	`shame, sucks for you and i wanted to hear whether it was a serviceable kybd`
`03:09.04`	`DaniloCesar`	`I think that the only think that miss on N800 is java applets.. I can access my bank in my N800 and its a little frustrating`
`03:09.16`	`Luria`	`f java`
`03:09.57`	`Luria`	`ooooh i can run my slow code on slow vms anywhere`
`03:10.26`	`DaniloCesar`	`f java! I agree! But please, say this to my bank IT managers! lol`
`03:11.42`	`Luria`	`its like someone took c++ and lobotomized it`
`03:12.17`	`Luria`	`garbage disposal is wonderful... except that the jvm takes all my ram anyway`
`03:12.38`	`rik`	`i tune java vm's for a living.`
`03:12.46`	`rik`	`i like java.`
`03:12.46`	`DaniloCesar`	`Luria, But is not a big problem anymore. I can use my bank applet under SSH and X-Forward`
`03:13.00`	`rik`	`i notice that cat /proc/cpuinfo mentions java as a cpu feature though.`
`03:13.04`	`rik`	`on my n800 at least.`
`03:13.11`	`*** part/#maemo rhsanborn (n=user@74-36-48-118.br1.aurr.mn.frontiernet.net)`
`03:13.35`	`Luria`	`no offense intended here rik. still holding to my opinion :-)`
`03:14.15`	`rik`	`no offense taken`
`03:14.23`	`Luria`	`especially after it took my pM/1ghz/512MB on k-meleon 5 minutes to load the aforementioned open hp config page`
`03:14.41`	`rik`	`personally, i dislike c++ a lot, always ave. seems like there's too many ways to do the same thing, and they're all slight variotions on each other, for maximum complexity.`
`03:14.52`	`rik`	`java seems like c++ done much better. i won't say "right" though.`
`03:15.02`	`DaniloCesar`	`Folks! I'm going to my bed. Good night for everyone (If is night in your country)`
`03:15.17`	`rik`	`it's 4:18am here`
`03:15.20`	`rik`	`but i'm jet lagged :)`
`03:15.41`	`Luria`	`that i do understand`
`03:15.50`	`Luria`	`still, i like rope to hang myself with`
`03:15.59`	`rik`	`yes.`
`03:16.11`	`rik`	`if you can't screw yourself in interesting ways, then the language isn't as useful as it can be :)`
`03:16.11`	`Luria`	`plus, i often treat it as c with classes`
`03:16.21`	`Luria`	`which is a lot of rope, but can be done right`
`03:16.56`	`Luria`	`i like c :-)`
`03:17.23`	`Luria`	`i was sad to see people move away from teaching it for basic comp sci`
`03:18.15`	`Luria`	`or c++`
`03:18.40`	`rik`	`i was taught C, Java and Haskell, to appreciate all the big styles.`
`03:18.53`	`rik`	`i love C. but i haven't writen any serious C in a long time.`
`03:20.18`	`Luria`	`im kinda teaching a friend of mine python as a way to learn python and get back into programming (using the how to think like a compscientist book)`
`03:20.56`	`rik`	`i learned python. then i learned haskell.. or at least, what Haskell should have taught me - i still can't write haskell code, bt i can read it... and hten my python improved.`
`03:20.58`	`Luria`	`on the one hand, its nice that he can make somewhat functioning code...`
`03:21.39`	`Luria`	`on the other hand, it doesnt promote thinking in some fundamental ways that are integral to programming`
`03:23.07`	`rik`	`such as?`
`03:23.13`	`rik`	`memory allocation, etc?`
`03:23.20`	`Luria`	`when we hit chap 5, i figured that now that he had learned to write a function (with returns), import libraries, and some basic io, he could get the hello world example`
`03:23.37`	`Luria`	`but the concept of streams didnt work`
`03:23.59`	`rik`	`hm`
`03:24.07`	`Luria`	`maybe if it were c and printf...`
`03:24.31`	`*** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@98.64.124.24.cm.sunflower.com)`
`03:24.39`	`Luria`	`still, the idea of encapsulating the main "script" in a function was problematic`
`03:25.23`	`Luria`	`and his eyes kinda glazed, even though he should have had the vocabulary by this point, as i had him write some basic functions`
`03:25.37`	`rik`	`hmm`
`03:25.38`	`Luria`	`nor is he particularly dumb`
`03:26.13`	`Luria`	`i dunno, there are some bad problems with that book`
`03:26.30`	`Luria`	`i dont like the fact that they use stupid variable names...`
`03:27.11`	`Luria`	`when teaching string operations, you dont give def repeat_text(bruce): as an example`
`03:27.30`	`Luria`	`wtf is bruce? it looks like something you'd pass to the function!`
`03:28.23`	`Luria`	`so he (rightly) got confused between literals and variables`
`03:28.37`	`rik`	`i can understand`
`03:29.51`	`Luria`	`i started to say, "you know what, stick a "str_" in front of string variables, etc. etc."`
`03:29.57`	`Luria`	`it helped a lot`
`03:30.26`	`rik`	`RPN!`
`03:30.27`	`rik`	`no`
`03:30.34`	`rik`	`Hungarian notation. that's the one.`
`03:30.49`	`Luria`	`ok fine`
`03:30.53`	`Luria`	`but this aint it`
`03:30.55`	`Luria`	`http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/html/book004.html#toc32`
`03:31.05`	`Luria`	`i swear, i wasnt making this up`
`03:31.16`	`rik`	`that's unhelpful.`
`03:31.46`	`Luria`	`im regretting using this book, somewhat`
`03:32.15`	`*** join/#maemo ekim\|irc (i=ekim@dt061n59.tampabay.res.rr.com)`
`03:32.16`	`rik`	`shame. the concept was good.`
`03:32.16`	`ekim\|irc`	`Hi`
`03:32.16`	`Luria`	`in many respects it is good, but really bad about laying the foundations for design`
`03:32.25`	`ekim\|irc`	`I just ordered a nokia 770 on amazon`
`03:32.37`	`ekim\|irc`	`with a 1 gig rs-mmc card`
`03:32.49`	`ekim\|irc`	`when I get it...what should I do with it first ?`
`03:32.57`	`ekim\|irc`	`What is the "Killer App"`
`03:33.33`	`Luria`	`there are a lot of great apps... maemo mapper is portable google earth... gizmo for sip voip`
`03:33.43`	`Luria`	`gaim/pidgin for multi network im`
`03:34.05`	`ekim\|irc`	`so...`
`03:34.07`	`ekim\|irc`	`what about skype`
`03:34.15`	`ekim\|irc`	`any luck with that ?`
`03:35.01`	`Luria`	`rik, similarly, iit covers syntax, runtime, and sematic errors - but not issues with style.`
`03:35.48`	`ekim\|irc`	`what apps do you use Luria ?`
`03:35.52`	`Luria`	`or thinking algorithmically`
`03:36.00`	`Luria`	`ekim\|irc, i have an n800`
`03:36.11`	`Luria`	`so my list may be different`
`03:36.29`	`Luria`	`no skype afaik for the 770`
`03:36.48`	`Luria`	`xournal is really nice`
`03:36.51`	`ekim\|irc`	`whats the difference betweenthe 770 and the 800`
`03:36.57`	`Luria`	`keep an eye out for that`
`03:37.02`	`ekim\|irc`	`I bought the 770 bevause I could afford it :0`
`03:37.25`	`ekim\|irc`	`are there a lot of apps that are n800 only ?`
`03:37.28`	`Luria`	`i understand. its a fine machine too. im thinking of picking up a 770 too.`
`03:37.36`	`ekim\|irc`	`rik, ...nice`
`03:37.47`	`Luria`	`i skipped pims cause i love the rtcomm stack`
`03:37.56`	`ekim\|irc`	`Wow...because there is TOTALLY a lefitate use for metasploit`
`03:38.02`	`ekim\|irc`	`lol`
`03:38.08`	`rik`	`what i want is a google calendar interface, actually.`
`03:38.10`	`Luria`	`metasploit is hard on the IT`
`03:38.11`	`ekim\|irc`	`now all we need is ethereal`
`03:38.13`	`ekim\|irc`	`wait`
`03:38.16`	`ekim\|irc`	`thats what kismet does`
`03:38.18`	`ekim\|irc`	`right ?`
`03:38.23`	`rik`	`tcpdump. dsniff, etc.`
`03:38.25`	`Luria`	`no`
`03:38.31`	`Luria`	`well, sorta`
`03:38.37`	`ekim\|irc`	`kismet is a sniffer no ?`
`03:38.47`	`Luria`	`kismet is wireless, and will isolate certain packets`
`03:38.51`	`ekim\|irc`	`Ohh`
`03:39.04`	`ekim\|irc`	`ethereal will run on linux right ?`
`03:39.10`	`Luria`	`mostly an ap finder`
`03:39.13`	`rik`	`yes. the point is that i'm a security consultant. i walk on site and a client says "we're secure. we'll pay yuou X thousand dollars for each vulnerability you acn find!" and i pull out the N800 and tell them what it's found so far.`
`03:39.31`	`Luria`	`hahah`
`03:39.43`	`ekim\|irc`	`I was just messin' with you :)`
`03:40.03`	`Luria`	`i would love to copy your setup :-) i just reflashed and havent redone the metasploit install`
`03:40.10`	`Luria`	`but it was so damn slow`
`03:40.37`	`ekim\|irc`	`what is thedifference between the 800 and the 770`
`03:40.45`	`ekim\|irc`	`I got the 770 for only 150 bucks on amazon`
`03:41.26`	`Luria`	`ram, internal storage, cpu speed, sd(hc) vs stupidflash`
`03:41.44`	`ekim\|irc`	`aww damn`
`03:41.48`	`*** join/#maemo pdz- (n=paul@135.14.169.217.in-addr.arpa)`
`03:41.49`	`ekim\|irc`	`the n800 uses sd cards`
`03:41.59`	`ekim\|irc`	`but is it THAT much better`
`03:42.07`	`ekim\|irc`	`having a litter buyers remorse`
`03:42.26`	`*** join/#maemo bladerunner (n=bladerun@189.25.90.145)`
`03:42.33`	`Luria`	`oh, camera too`
`03:42.45`	`ekim\|irc`	`the 770 doesn't have a camera ?`
`03:42.45`	`Luria`	`depends what you want it for`
`03:42.55`	`ekim\|irc`	`Ohh`
`03:42.56`	`ekim\|irc`	`Nope`
`03:43.02`	`ekim\|irc`	`well...that is cool`
`03:43.03`	`Luria`	`no, iirc and wikipedia is correct`
`03:43.31`	`ekim\|irc`	`but I have to be honest ... the camera would be really fun to play with for liek the first hour ... then I would never use it`
`03:43.31`	`Luria`	`look, i like it for certain things - like i said, i have a n800 and am thinking about getting one`
`03:43.37`	`Luria`	`yup`
`03:43.44`	`ekim\|irc`	`getting one what ?`
`03:43.50`	`Luria`	`770`
`03:43.52`	`ekim\|irc`	`why ?`
`03:43.55`	`ekim\|irc`	`you have an 800`
`03:44.17`	`ekim\|irc`	`also...`
`03:44.18`	`_Monkey`	`rumour has it also is there a nice tutorial for setting up a python dev environment for the n800`
`03:44.24`	`ekim\|irc`	`OHH DUUUUDE`
`03:44.28`	`ekim\|irc`	`for ereal ?`
`03:44.36`	`ekim\|irc`	`has anyone got IDLE running on it yet ?`
`03:44.42`	`bladerunner`	`where?`
`03:44.42`	`Luria`	`ignore the damn bot`
`03:44.57`	`Luria`	`there is ipython`
`03:45.00`	`ekim\|irc`	`I am really excited about canola`
`03:45.03`	`ekim\|irc`	`Ahh`
`03:45.06`	`ekim\|irc`	`I never use those anywauy`
`03:45.11`	`ekim\|irc`	`is ther egvim on it ?`
`03:45.20`	`ekim\|irc`	`it is not my day for typing...`
`03:45.35`	`Luria`	`there is real vim`
`03:45.50`	`ekim\|irc`	`gvim is real vim`
`03:45.56`	`ekim\|irc`	`gvim is gtk a gtk gui for vim`
`03:46.07`	`ekim\|irc`	`because using vim in the windows command prompt sucks :)`
`03:46.14`	`ekim\|irc`	`command line vim is fine on linux`
`03:46.20`	`Luria`	`egvim - easy gvim`
`03:46.31`	`*** join/#maemo Gigabites (i=Gigabite@c-24-7-75-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`03:46.32`	`ekim\|irc`	`with gnome-terminal , konsole , aterm ... or even xterm .... but not in the windows command prompt`
`03:46.34`	`ekim\|irc`	`I forgot rxvt`
`03:46.44`	`ekim\|irc`	`egvim ?`
`03:46.46`	`ekim\|irc`	`Never heard of it`
`03:46.55`	`ekim\|irc`	`I use the official gvim`
`03:46.55`	`Luria`	`oh btw - the n800 can just about replace a notebook (with a keyboard) for data consumption and some typing and blogging`
`03:47.13`	`ekim\|irc`	`can you plug a usb keyboard into the 770 ( with some modification ) ?`
`03:47.14`	`Luria`	`the 770 is fine for the purposes of an internet tablet`
`03:47.17`	`Luria`	`yes`
`03:47.22`	`ekim\|irc`	`is ther ea link ?`
`03:47.29`	`ekim\|irc`	`Imn sure there is a project on this somewhere ?`
`03:47.32`	`Luria`	`you have to make a cable`
`03:47.35`	`Luria`	`search itt`
`03:48.00`	`Luria`	`damn... bitchx`
`03:48.06`	`Luria`	`havent seen that in a while`
`03:48.11`	`ekim\|irc`	`yeah...Im an irssi guy`
`03:48.18`	`ekim\|irc`	`lol`
`03:48.29`	`ekim\|irc`	`im a vim guy...and I do the same thing when people use emacs`
`03:48.30`	`ekim\|irc`	`seriously`
`03:48.36`	`ekim\|irc`	`all the emacs people are total masachists`
`03:48.55`	`ekim\|irc`	`did I spell that right...`
`03:49.01`	`ekim\|irc`	`today is not my day for spelling either`
`03:49.03`	`Luria`	`i know the guy who rewrote the file save and did the ocr for emacs`
`03:49.21`	`Luria`	`he's like look at all the cool shit you can do with emacs....`
`03:49.32`	`Luria`	`(i was demoing vim on the n800)`
`03:49.39`	`Luria`	`i stare at him and say`
`03:49.51`	`Luria`	`i want to edit a text file`
`03:49.55`	`ekim\|irc`	`Dude...there is no doubt...you can do some cool shit with emacs`
`03:50.12`	`ekim\|irc`	`but eventually...your gonna ctualyl want to EDIT TEXT FILES`
`03:50.15`	`Luria`	`yeah, like load vim to edit`
`03:50.29`	`ekim\|irc`	`the emacs zealots are all like ... dude ... look`
`03:50.39`	`*** join/#maemo pdz-_ (n=paul@135.14.169.217.in-addr.arpa)`
`03:50.51`	`ekim\|irc`	`my editor reads my mail , reads my news , walks my dog , and does my fscking dishes`
`03:50.58`	`*** join/#maemo rhys (n=rhys@adsl-75-60-200-218.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net)`
`03:50.59`	`ekim\|irc`	`o yeah...and if you want...it even edits text`
`03:51.01`	`Luria`	`frankly, emacs is for people who forgot to run the other stuff before hand... are at a shell... and dont know how to use screen`
`03:51.09`	`ekim\|irc`	`lol`
`03:51.15`	`ekim\|irc`	`I hate it when I do that`
`03:51.21`	`ekim\|irc`	`forget to start screen`
`03:51.38`	`ekim\|irc`	`I get into an app and press CTRL-A + C and nothing happens`
`03:52.03`	`Luria`	`oddly enough, he had never heard the escape-meta-alt-control-shift joke`
`03:52.23`	`rik`	`emacs has a great os, but i don't like the editor`
`03:53.09`	`ekim\|irc`	`so...what happens if you press escape-meta-alt-control-shift ?`
`03:53.15`	`ekim\|irc`	`and what if your meta key is alt`
`03:53.16`	`ekim\|irc`	`?`
`03:53.30`	`Luria`	`i said "dont you need to hold escape-meta-alt-control-shift-a here?" and he's like "no, you never need to hit that many keys simultatiously..." before he got the joke`
`03:53.45`	`Luria`	`e-m-a-c-s`
`03:53.51`	`ekim\|irc`	`ohh`
`03:53.53`	`ekim\|irc`	`Nice`
`03:54.21`	`ekim\|irc`	`do you have a keyboard on your n800 ?`
`03:54.27`	`Luria`	`the look on his face was priceless, cause it sounded like a legit emacs question`
`03:54.33`	`Luria`	`yes, i bought one`
`03:54.44`	`ekim\|irc`	`it was`
`03:54.50`	`ekim\|irc`	`an e-m-a-c-s question`
`03:55.00`	`ekim\|irc`	`seriouly ... vim FTW`
`03:55.02`	`ekim\|irc`	`anyhow`
`03:55.06`	`ekim\|irc`	`is it bluetooth ?`
`03:55.10`	`Luria`	`yes`
`03:55.19`	`ekim\|irc`	`because for me...bluetooth seems overkill if the device is right next to it`
`03:55.24`	`ekim\|irc`	`how much was it ?`
`03:55.24`	`Luria`	`igo ultra slim`
`03:55.32`	`Luria`	`$100`
`03:55.38`	`Luria`	`but i got b&m`
`03:55.42`	`ekim\|irc`	`yeah...still pretty expensive`
`03:55.47`	`Luria`	`you can find it cheaper online`
`03:55.59`	`ekim\|irc`	`b&m ?`
`03:56.04`	`Luria`	`but actually it was cheap compared to many online places`
`03:56.05`	`ekim\|irc`	`the baked bean people ?`
`03:56.09`	`Luria`	`brick and mortar`
`03:56.15`	`Luria`	`physical stores`
`03:56.23`	`ekim\|irc`	`I know what brick and mortar is`
`03:56.28`	`ekim\|irc`	`I like beans though :)`
`03:56.37`	`Luria`	`ok. why not.`
`03:56.40`	`ekim\|irc`	`why no love for the beans :(`
`03:56.47`	`ekim\|irc`	`I DEMAND love for the beans!`
`03:57.07`	`ekim\|irc`	`seriously...is there a way to connect a regular usb keyboard to the 770`
`03:57.13`	`Luria`	`not everyone here (especially here) is a native english speaker, so i make no assumptions`
`03:57.28`	`Luria`	`more that a few people from finland, you know`
`03:57.52`	`ekim\|irc`	`of course`
`03:57.56`	`ekim\|irc`	`nokia ia based in finland`
`03:58.02`	`ekim\|irc`	`not that it ha anything to do with it`
`03:58.06`	`ekim\|irc`	`or maybe it does`
`03:58.10`	`Luria`	`uh`
`03:58.13`	`Luria`	`yeah it does`
`03:58.18`	`Luria`	`that was my point :-)`
`03:58.35`	`ekim\|irc`	`Well...I am not finish`
`03:58.35`	`ekim\|irc`	`:)`
`03:58.48`	`ekim\|irc`	`im from florida....which is probably as far as you can get`
`03:58.59`	`ekim\|irc`	`and you apparently are from new york`
`03:59.09`	`Luria`	`do a /who on the channel...`
`03:59.13`	`Luria`	`yup`
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`03:59.31`	`ekim\|irc`	`I know`
`03:59.36`	`ekim\|irc`	`nyc.res.rr.com`
`03:59.46`	`ekim\|irc`	`same isp`
`03:59.52`	`Luria`	`ah right. cafe connection.`
`03:59.59`	`ekim\|irc`	`Your at a cafe now ?`
`04:00.07`	`Luria`	`yes`
`04:00.14`	`Luria`	`took my n800 to florida last month...`
`04:00.21`	`ekim\|irc`	`where in florida /`
`04:00.26`	`Luria`	`used my notebook twice that week`
`04:00.56`	`Luria`	`bal harbour`
`04:01.05`	`ekim\|irc`	`Hmm`
`04:01.12`	`ekim\|irc`	`I live in tampa`
`04:01.15`	`ekim\|irc`	`not sure how close that is`
`04:01.23`	`Luria`	`got my cwp safety cert :)`
`04:01.41`	`ekim\|irc`	`whats that ?`
`04:01.53`	`Luria`	`bal harbour is miami beach`
`04:02.01`	`Luria`	`are you from florida?`
`04:02.28`	`ekim\|irc`	`yeah`
`04:02.32`	`Luria`	`concealed weapons permit... you need to take and pass a safety class before they issue you a permit`
`04:02.37`	`ekim\|irc`	`from a place that nombody has heard of`
`04:02.44`	`Luria`	`tampa?`
`04:02.45`	`ekim\|irc`	`and nobody can spell`
`04:02.48`	`ekim\|irc`	`no`
`04:02.55`	`ekim\|irc`	`try to pronounce this :)`
`04:02.58`	`ekim\|irc`	`thonotosassa`
`04:03.23`	`ekim\|irc`	`too many acronyms...`
`04:03.25`	`ekim\|irc`	`my brain hurts`
`04:03.27`	`Luria`	`thoh-no-toe-sa-sa`
`04:03.30`	`Luria`	`?`
`04:03.31`	`ekim\|irc`	`wow`
`04:03.38`	`ekim\|irc`	`you did it`
`04:03.44`	`ekim\|irc`	`not many people can say it ... let alone spell it`
`04:04.07`	`ekim\|irc`	`have you written anythingfor the 770/800`
`04:04.13`	`ekim\|irc`	`hildon seems to be pretty easy to program for`
`04:04.28`	`Luria`	`not yet`
`04:04.52`	`ekim\|irc`	`are you a developer at all ?`
`04:05.02`	`Luria`	`i had almost set up a dev environment, but my router went down, and i cant vpn home...`
`04:05.09`	`Luria`	`not critical, but i cant play`
`04:05.19`	`Luria`	`and i havent been home in a while`
`04:05.58`	`ekim\|irc`	`so you don't live in nyc ?`
`04:06.04`	`Luria`	`there are a couple of things i want to do`
`04:06.09`	`Luria`	`i do`
`04:06.20`	`ekim\|irc`	`Ohh cool`
`04:06.28`	`ekim\|irc`	`I haven't written anything useful`
`04:06.37`	`ekim\|irc`	`working on a opastebin app with django`
`04:06.39`	`ekim\|irc`	`<PROTECTED>`
`04:06.42`	`ekim\|irc`	`nothing huge`
`04:06.42`	`Luria`	`there are couple maemo frontends that need doing`
`04:06.54`	`Luria`	`no`
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`04:07.38`	`ekim\|irc`	`what is the name of the maemo interface`
`04:07.39`	`ekim\|irc`	`hildon ?`
`04:07.40`	`_Monkey`	`hildon is, like, a tablet desktop framework, http://live.gnome.org/Hildon and a standard part of the maemo platform`
`04:07.54`	`ekim\|irc`	`nice`
`04:07.59`	`ekim\|irc`	`maemo ?`
`04:07.59`	`_Monkey`	`maemo is, like, at maemo.org or Open Source Software`
`04:08.07`	`ekim\|irc`	`your an idiot ?`
`04:08.16`	`ekim\|irc`	`ohh...don't know the answer to that one huh ?`
`04:08.17`	`Luria`	`_Monkey, idiot ?`
`04:08.18`	`_Monkey`	`i haven't a clue, luria`
`04:08.22`	`ekim\|irc`	`nice`
`04:08.28`	`ekim\|irc`	`_Monkey, linux ?`
`04:08.29`	`_Monkey`	`linux is a free kernel thats inside most open source operating systems today and its a core technology for Maemo`
`04:08.34`	`ekim\|irc`	`_Monkey, python ?`
`04:08.35`	`_Monkey`	`python is at pymaemo.garage.maemo.org!`
`04:08.39`	`ekim\|irc`	`ohh`
`04:08.41`	`ekim\|irc`	`a python port`
`04:08.47`	`Luria`	`oh yeah`
`04:08.48`	`ekim\|irc`	`_Monkey, ruby ?`
`04:08.48`	`_Monkey`	`ekim\|irc: bugger all, i dunno`
`04:08.51`	`ekim\|irc`	`:(`
`04:08.56`	`ekim\|irc`	`no rails then`
`04:08.57`	`Luria`	`yes there is RoR`
`04:09.01`	`ekim\|irc`	`Ohh`
`04:09.17`	`Luria`	`remember we were talking about metasploit`
`04:09.21`	`ekim\|irc`	`Yeah ?`
`04:09.25`	`ekim\|irc`	`is that written in ruby ?`
`04:09.30`	`Luria`	`yes, the web interface works`
`04:09.34`	`ekim\|irc`	`Ohh`
`04:09.37`	`Luria`	`that we didnt metion`
`04:09.41`	`ekim\|irc`	`I haven't playeed with it in like a year`
`04:10.08`	`ekim\|irc`	`how does task switching work on the 770`
`04:10.13`	`ekim\|irc`	`can I run more then omne app at a time`
`04:10.17`	`Luria`	`yes`
`04:10.23`	`ekim\|irc`	`Like be coding my app in vim ... then preview it in opera`
`04:10.30`	`Luria`	`its not hard,`
`04:10.44`	`Luria`	`youll see :-)`
`04:11.11`	`Luria`	`i want to try pyro on n800 python later`
`04:11.16`	`Luria`	`or rather ipython`
`04:11.40`	`Luria`	`that would be like having a hacking shell`
`04:11.46`	`ekim\|irc`	`pyro`
`04:11.49`	`ekim\|irc`	`isng that the firefox thing`
`04:11.57`	`ekim\|irc`	`like ... acrive desktop done right`
`04:12.01`	`ekim\|irc`	`*active`
`04:12.01`	`Luria`	`_Monkey, pyro ?`
`04:12.01`	`_Monkey`	`i think pyro is short for PYthon Remote Objects. It is an advanced and powerful Distributed Object Technology system written entirely in Python.`
`04:12.04`	`ekim\|irc`	`or something like that`
`04:12.06`	`ekim\|irc`	`Ohh`
`04:12.11`	`ekim\|irc`	`I must be thiking of something else`
`04:12.38`	`ekim\|irc`	`Ohh`
`04:12.40`	`Luria`	`worse, there a like five python libs that are called pyro`
`04:12.48`	`ekim\|irc`	`I was actually thiking of this`
`04:12.49`	`ekim\|irc`	`http://www.pyrodesktop.org/`
`04:14.33`	`Luria`	`oh god`
`04:14.40`	`ekim\|irc`	`where !`
`04:14.51`	`Luria`	`not on a mozilla desktop`
`04:16.36`	`ekim\|irc`	`wow`
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`04:16.37`	`ekim\|irc`	`what happened`
`04:16.37`	`ekim\|irc`	`netsplit ?`
`04:16.37`	`Luria`	`wow`
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`04:16.39`	`Luria`	`a net split`
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`04:16.41`	`ekim\|irc`	`definately netsplit`
`04:16.41`	`Luria`	`i didnt think those happened anymore`
`04:16.41`	`ekim\|irc`	`O yeah`
`04:16.41`	`ekim\|irc`	`I had one happen a few weeks ago`
`04:16.41`	`Luria`	`it like efnet c. 1994`
`04:16.41`	`ekim\|irc`	`Looks like kubrick burped :)`
`04:16.41`	`Luria`	`quick, split ops!`
`04:17.23`	`ekim\|irc`	`do what ?`
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`04:17.24`	`Luria`	`old channel hacking technique?`
`04:17.24`	`ekim\|irc`	`Hmm ?`
`04:17.24`	`*** join/#maemo hendryx (n=hendryx@194.216.112.207)`
`04:17.24`	`*** join/#maemo fish_ (n=fish@freigeist.org)`
`04:17.24`	`Luria`	`ok, it worked like this`
`04:17.24`	`Luria`	`you see a split`
`04:17.43`	`*** join/#maemo nomis (i=simon@vmax.unix-ag.uni-siegen.de)`
`04:17.43`	`Luria`	`get on the smaller side, or a single server that was split`
`04:18.05`	`Luria`	`join a "new" channel with the same name of the channel where you want ops`
`04:18.16`	`ekim\|irc`	`Ohh nice`
`04:18.24`	`Luria`	`kick on the resync before you lose ops`
`04:18.33`	`ekim\|irc`	`because the channel doesn't exist on that server`
`04:18.33`	`ekim\|irc`	`yet`
`04:18.42`	`Luria`	`right`
`04:18.51`	`ekim\|irc`	`Im coming kind alate on the irc scene :)`
`04:19.11`	`Luria`	`i dropped out c. 1998-9`
`04:19.25`	`Luria`	`this is the only ircing ive done since`
`04:20.32`	`Luria`	`dalnet is still somewhat "new" to me :-)`
`04:20.45`	`ekim\|irc`	`I just joined a few days ago :0`
`04:20.49`	`ekim\|irc`	`their nickserv bugs me`
`04:20.55`	`ekim\|irc`	`thet do an email loop`
`04:21.09`	`ekim\|irc`	`I dont know any other irc network that does that`
`04:21.27`	`Luria`	`thats what was "new"`
`04:21.36`	`Luria`	`all the services`
`04:22.05`	`Luria`	`brb`
`04:22.36`	`ekim\|irc`	`cool`
`04:23.05`	`*** join/#maemo syosoft (n=Sean@c-75-68-255-52.hsd1.vt.comcast.net)`
`04:24.25`	`Blacksitox`	`rp-pppoe on n800 ?`
`04:24.39`	`Blacksitox`	`how compiling rp-pppoe for n800 ?`
`04:25.26`	`ekim\|irc`	`Sorry`
`04:25.39`	`ekim\|irc`	`I don't have a 770 , nor do I know what rp-pppoe is`
`04:25.40`	`ekim\|irc`	`:)`
`04:25.50`	`ekim\|irc`	`I should have mine by next week though :)`
`04:26.02`	`ekim\|irc`	`I assume pppoe as in DSL internet right ?`
`04:26.17`	`ekim\|irc`	`Point to Point Protocol Over Ethernet ?`
`04:27.01`	`Blacksitox`	`yes`
`04:28.00`	`ekim\|irc`	`Why would you need that on the 770`
`04:28.02`	`ekim\|irc`	`which uses wifi`
`04:28.08`	`ekim\|irc`	`or 800 for that matter`
`04:29.42`	`*** join/#maemo Zword (n=Zword@bos94-3-82-226-234-106.fbx.proxad.net)`
`04:30.18`	`*** join/#maemo rkaway1 (n=timj@e176217134.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`04:31.16`	`Luria`	`i wish there were a tiny ap the size of a rj-45 connector`
`04:31.43`	`Luria`	`iow, plugin to a ethernet network, you can use an IT`
`04:32.15`	`Luria`	`maybe battery powered and/or PoE`
`04:33.46`	`*** join/#maemo dolske (n=dolske@c-24-7-115-18.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`04:36.47`	`*** join/#maemo Hyperion\|n800 (n=Hyperion@CPE-70-94-16-224.wi.res.rr.com)`
`04:37.26`	`ekim\|irc`	`O hey Luria ...your back`
`04:37.30`	`ekim\|irc`	`Umm...`
`04:37.34`	`Luria`	`back`
`04:37.39`	`ekim\|irc`	`what is the gui for the 770 called ?`
`04:37.47`	`Luria`	`hildon?`
`04:37.48`	`_Monkey`	`well, hildon is a tablet desktop framework, http://live.gnome.org/Hildon and a standard part of the maemo platform`
`04:37.55`	`ekim\|irc`	`is it hildon`
`04:38.04`	`ekim\|irc`	`I know hildon is the library for writing maemo compatible apps`
`04:38.09`	`ekim\|irc`	`or at least gui framework`
`04:38.23`	`ekim\|irc`	`but what is the task switching/app launching part`
`04:38.32`	`ekim\|irc`	`the actual user interface`
`04:38.50`	`Luria`	`osso?`
`04:38.56`	`ekim\|irc`	`maybe`
`04:39.19`	`ekim\|irc`	`has anyone been able to replace that`
`04:39.27`	`ekim\|irc`	`maybe run fluxboxy on it or something`
`04:39.32`	`ekim\|irc`	`just because you can I guess :)`
`04:39.42`	`Luria`	`hmmm`
`04:40.26`	`Luria`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maemo`
`04:41.23`	`Luria`	`it has the stack "diagram"`
`04:42.34`	`ekim\|irc`	`Huh ?`
`04:42.50`	`Luria`	`the maemo "stack"`
`04:42.52`	`ekim\|irc`	`I get it`
`04:42.58`	`Luria`	`look at the wikipedia page`
`04:43.00`	`Luria`	`ok`
`04:43.01`	`ekim\|irc`	`but you didnt answer my other question`
`04:43.08`	`Luria`	`oh`
`04:43.11`	`Luria`	`i dunno`
`04:43.12`	`ekim\|irc`	`has anyone got fluxbox to work on it ?`
`04:43.18`	`ekim\|irc`	`I guess there is not reall a point`
`04:43.29`	`ekim\|irc`	`you cant right-click ... so it would be problamatic`
`04:43.40`	`ekim\|irc`	`*problematic`
`04:44.07`	`Luria`	`well, not really`
`04:44.15`	`Luria`	`you could just load it and stil`
`04:44.21`	`Luria`	`sit stil`
`04:44.22`	`Luria`	`l`
`04:44.25`	`Luria`	`:-)`
`04:46.32`	`Luria`	`http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sh9VoEb93I`
`04:46.32`	`ekim\|irc`	`wow...thats exciting`
`04:46.42`	`ekim\|irc`	`Ohh nice`
`04:47.12`	`ekim\|irc`	`How is he typing ?`
`04:47.44`	`Luria`	`keyboard, i would guess`
`04:47.55`	`Luria`	`http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=36941#post36941`
`04:47.57`	`ekim\|irc`	`are there any apps that run ONLY on the n800 besides camera specific apps ?`
`04:48.32`	`Luria`	`skype`
`04:48.36`	`Luria`	`microb, rtcomm`
`04:48.48`	`Luria`	`(afaik on the last two)`
`04:49.10`	`ekim\|irc`	`aww damn`
`04:49.15`	`ekim\|irc`	`they have skype for the n800`
`04:49.17`	`ekim\|irc`	`aww come on`
`04:49.21`	`Luria`	`but i dunno what will run on os2007 and not os2007he`
`04:49.22`	`ekim\|irc`	`why doesn't it work on the 770 ?`
`04:49.43`	`Luria`	`all i know is that there is no official release`
`04:49.53`	`syosoft`	`because only the poor own 770's - and the poor cant skype :(`
`04:49.59`	`ekim\|irc`	`Whatever`
`04:50.02`	`ekim\|irc`	`I am poor`
`04:50.05`	`ekim\|irc`	`and I demand my skype`
`04:50.12`	`ekim\|irc`	`Im sure somebody has done it`
`04:50.14`	`syosoft`	`...that was in jest ;) i own a 770...`
`04:50.18`	`Luria`	`i do not know if you put 2007he on your 770 and manually dpkg skype if it works`
`04:50.24`	`syosoft`	`heh, just picked it up a couple weeks back. havent put it to use too much thou.`
`04:50.29`	`syosoft`	`more interested in my HTPC ATM`
`04:50.40`	`syosoft`	`any "must have" apps you guys can suggest?`
`04:50.41`	`Luria`	`yeah, dont use skype much`
`04:50.51`	`Luria`	`oh dear`
`04:50.55`	`Luria`	`not again`
`04:51.11`	`Luria`	`thats the third time in 24 hours`
`04:51.19`	`Luria`	`i need to write a page`
`04:51.21`	`syosoft`	`heh, if its that common a question....hows about putting a little page together?`
`04:51.44`	`syosoft`	`I bought it for the toy aspect of it - but would be nice to get some use out of it as well.`
`04:51.58`	`ekim\|irc`	`How much ewas yours syosoft ?`
`04:52.11`	`ekim\|irc`	`I bought it for 150 on amazon`
`04:52.11`	`syosoft`	`picked it up at buy.com`
`04:52.16`	`ekim\|irc`	`yesterday...`
`04:52.19`	`syosoft`	`143 or something, somewhere around that.`
`04:52.25`	`Luria`	`http://mg.pov.lt/770/reflash-n800.html`
`04:52.34`	`Luria`	`but those are n800 debs`
`04:52.34`	`syosoft`	`is there a thumb keyboard for 770 ?`
`04:52.49`	`Luria`	`virtual, yes`
`04:52.55`	`syosoft`	`right`
`04:53.03`	`syosoft`	`you guys use a screen protector?`
`04:53.07`	`Luria`	`yes`
`04:53.12`	`Luria`	`yes, yes`
`04:53.12`	`syosoft`	`i already scratched it :( damn dirty stylus`
`04:53.25`	`Luria`	`with the original plastic?`
`04:53.32`	`Luria`	`or the screen itself?`
`04:53.48`	`syosoft`	`hrm...is the original plastic on it so well you cant tell it's on it?`
`04:53.52`	`Luria`	`cause the stylus will cut the original plastic screen`
`04:53.59`	`syosoft`	`because mine didnt seem to have anything on it.`
`04:54.05`	`Luria`	`(on the n800 after two weeks)`
`04:54.16`	`Luria`	`look carefully is all i can say`
`04:54.34`	`syosoft`	`yea, i'm guessing it's naked.`
`04:54.40`	`Luria`	`only so much i can tell you; ive had an n800 since the end of june`
`04:55.04`	`ekim\|irc`	`where can I buy a screen protector ?`
`04:55.07`	`Luria`	`dont know a ton about the 770`
`04:55.12`	`Luria`	`one sec`
`04:55.15`	`ekim\|irc`	`is it a standard sized screen ?`
`04:55.29`	`syosoft`	`i've seen a couple for 'em`
`04:55.45`	`syosoft`	`the one i plan on getting has a retail of $12.95 or something, cant remember the name of it now :)`
`04:56.01`	`Luria`	`i bought these`
`04:56.02`	`Luria`	`http://www.screenguardz.com/`
`04:56.09`	`Luria`	`thats probably what you mean`
`04:56.10`	`ekim\|irc`	`I cant wait until I get my package :)`
`04:56.16`	`ekim\|irc`	`probalby next friday :9`
`04:56.23`	`Luria`	`fairly cheap`
`04:56.55`	`syosoft`	`i think i was leaning torwards the ClearTouch`
`04:57.03`	`syosoft`	`not sure why, just was`
`04:57.51`	`Luria`	`just a happy camper with those. cant tell you if it's better.`
`04:57.57`	`syosoft`	`coo`
`04:58.02`	`Luria`	`there are a bunch of threads at itt about this`
`04:58.29`	`syosoft`	`what about flys landing on my monitor and looking creepy? any threads about that?`
`04:58.43`	`syosoft`	`they probably know you wont smack 'em there....the bastards...`
`04:58.46`	`Luria`	`you'd have to search`
`04:58.54`	`Luria`	`_Monkey, flys`
`04:58.55`	`_Monkey`	`Luria: i'm not following you...`
`04:58.58`	`Luria`	`_Monkey, flys?`
`04:58.59`	`_Monkey`	`luria: bugger all, i dunno`
`04:59.23`	`syosoft`	`monkey? ;) quick on that tab are we?`
`04:59.51`	`Luria`	`_Monkey, debian ?`
`04:59.52`	`_Monkey`	`debian is really easy to use, and I think the install that exists on the nokia devices are a lot more custom tailored for them than you think`
`05:00.11`	`Luria`	`_Monkey, x11 ?`
`05:00.11`	`_Monkey`	`x11 is, like, not configured for the the opengl chip`
`05:00.30`	`Luria`	`_Monkey, irc ?`
`05:00.31`	`_Monkey`	`somebody said irc was only a couple of days old for me`
`05:00.36`	`Luria`	`heh`
`05:00.52`	`Luria`	`it gets annoying quick, but never gets old`
`05:01.15`	`ekim\|irc`	`bye guys`
`05:01.23`	`syosoft`	`cya`
`05:01.50`	`syosoft`	`what about car mounting?`
`05:02.00`	`syosoft`	`any decent mounts for air vents in the dash?`
`05:02.06`	`Luria`	`night`
`05:02.17`	`Luria`	`you could look into the nav pack`
`05:02.28`	`syosoft`	`just generic windshield ones :(`
`05:02.36`	`Luria`	`ah`
`05:02.37`	`syosoft`	`a bit tacky for my taste`
`05:02.42`	`Luria`	`dunno then`
`05:02.46`	`Luria`	`i understand`
`05:03.15`	`rm_you`	`anyone know anything about Puchi (the theme editor)? like maybe if it works with n800 themes?`
`05:03.48`	`Luria`	`ok, so i totally want one of these:`
`05:03.49`	`Luria`	`http://www.gd-itronix.com/index.cfm?page=Products:MR-1`
`05:04.14`	`Luria`	`screw maemo :-)`
`05:04.24`	`syosoft`	`what good is a 36" drop test...`
`05:04.34`	`syosoft`	`unless their target demo is little peoplel`
`05:04.47`	`Luria`	`ask my friend who dropped his panasonic cf-m34 down a flight of stairs`
`05:05.00`	`syosoft`	`that sounds a bit further than 36"`
`05:05.01`	`Luria`	`the thing was still running at the bottom`
`05:05.12`	`Luria`	`he was glad i recommended it :-)`
`05:05.18`	`syosoft`	`whats the retail on that thing?`
`05:05.51`	`Luria`	`4k`
`05:05.57`	`Luria`	`to start`
`05:06.00`	`syosoft`	`figured it be far more than what you actually get`
`05:06.11`	`syosoft`	`i like tech pricing. rather funny`
`05:06.35`	`Luria`	`cf-m34 is a tough toughbok http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/upgrade/1279251.html`
`05:06.41`	`Luria`	`toughbook`
`05:06.50`	`Luria`	`i love mine`
`05:07.32`	`rm_you`	`is it possible to recover from installing a broken theme on an n800?`
`05:07.58`	`syosoft`	`return it to the store as defective? ;)`
`05:08.05`	`rm_you`	`lol`
`05:08.13`	`rm_you`	`like, besides flashing`
`05:08.25`	`Luria`	`please note that the screen held the bullet - it screwed up the keyboard... but didnt enter the cpu section of the notebook`
`05:08.44`	`rm_you`	`if i SSH in, is it possible to change the theme via some CLI tool?`
`05:10.02`	`Luria`	`oh here we go`
`05:10.22`	`Luria`	`http://www.mavromatic.com/images/PANASONIC-BULLETPROOF-TOUGH.jpg`
`05:10.41`	`syosoft`	`:) soo not consumer products`
`05:10.53`	`syosoft`	`cool nevertheless.`
`05:10.59`	`bmidgley`	`Luria hope he got a working laptop out of all the publicity`
`05:11.06`	`Luria`	`hehe`
`05:11.19`	`bmidgley`	`he should wear a jacket made out of them`
`05:11.36`	`Luria`	`the p3-400mhz/192mb models go for $200 on ebay`
`05:12.00`	`Luria`	`p3-700/256 for about 300`
`05:13.06`	`bmidgley`	`i have a fujitsu p1510 which is about that size but lighter`
`05:13.15`	`bmidgley`	`i'm not often being shot at so it works out`
`05:13.35`	`syosoft`	`http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/technology_news/4220415.html i like that :)`
`05:14.19`	`Luria`	`right, but ive stuck the screen under a running faucet with no ill effect :-)`
`05:14.44`	`Luria`	`got the backlit sealed membrane keyboad for it`
`05:15.02`	`syosoft`	`any benefits of windows media center that no nother soft for xp cant mimic ?`
`05:15.07`	`Luria`	`add the fact that it has a proper serial port and its a hack of all trades`
`05:15.18`	`bmidgley`	`i do wish i had an outdoor readable screen. my n800 needs one too`
`05:15.32`	`Luria`	`yeah`
`05:15.54`	`Luria`	`the second cf-m34 is the outdoors model - transflective and no microphone`
`05:16.05`	`Luria`	`it is handy in a car`
`05:16.31`	`bmidgley`	`better battery life too when you can turn the backlight off and still see`
`05:16.32`	`Luria`	`just wish there were nice nav software for desktop linux`
`05:17.16`	`Luria`	`anyone know if is there anything?`
`05:17.28`	`Luria`	`not mapping software, navigation software`
`05:18.07`	`bmidgley`	`emulated env running maemo mapper`
`05:18.16`	`bmidgley`	`but seriously there is a gtk port of maemo mapper`
`05:18.17`	`Luria`	`ummmm`
`05:18.22`	`Luria`	`no`
`05:18.33`	`Luria`	`maemo mapper is a fork of gpsdrivfe`
`05:18.38`	`Luria`	`gpsdrive`
`05:18.43`	`Luria`	`sorta`
`05:18.57`	`Luria`	`then got rewritten for maemo`
`05:18.59`	`bmidgley`	`gpsdrive has the worst UI i've ever seen`
`05:19.08`	`bmidgley`	`hopefully he didn't use one line of code from it`
`05:19.15`	`Luria`	`thats why it got rewritten`
`05:20.08`	`bmidgley`	`i love the topo maps (only works in US though)`
`05:27.34`	`*** part/#maemo syosoft (n=Sean@c-75-68-255-52.hsd1.vt.comcast.net)`
`05:29.47`	`*** join/#maemo jbinder (n=jared@70.88.194.54)`
`05:30.31`	`rm_you`	`here goes nothing...`
`05:30.49`	`Luria`	`christ, what is wrong with this world when i am answering questions on #linux`
`05:35.27`	`*** join/#maemo slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo)`
`05:36.07`	`Luria`	`wow i like that fujitsu`
`06:04.54`	`*** join/#maemo NetBlade (n=osku@xdsl-206-183.nblnetworks.fi)`
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`09:01.13`	`amr`	`oh dear i think i broke my tablet and mmcs :-(`
`09:01.54`	`amr`	`took my tablet on holiday and it got a bit fruity when accepting cards, suddenly thought the card was read only then it thought it was corrupt`
`09:02.02`	`amr`	`now i can write to it`
`09:02.12`	`amr`	`if i try and unmount anything in the console and then remount it`
`09:02.24`	`amr`	`either by reinserting it or by doing /mount - i get the message that it is corrupt`
`09:02.34`	`amr`	`now my device isnt showing up when its plugged into my pc`
`09:08.01`	`*** join/#maemo VimS (n=vims@dslb-084-061-021-085.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`09:12.22`	`*** join/#maemo pcfe (n=pcfe@a83-245-162-212.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
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`09:15.05`	`k8`	`hi \o\`
`09:16.41`	`rik`	`hi`
`09:16.46`	`rik`	`/o/`
`09:18.09`	`k8`	`:D`
`09:20.19`	`*** join/#maemo zumbi (n=zumbi@230.132.219.87.dynamic.jazztel.es)`
`09:40.54`	`*** join/#maemo Hurgh (n=florian@85.127.115.110)`
`09:49.37`	`rik`	`is canola good enough to play UPnP video? if so, does anyone know much about it? i'm trying to configure video viewing on my n800, from my fileserver here. it already has an install of ezlink ng on it.`
`09:52.24`	`k8`	`which player used for the mp3?`
`09:52.28`	`k8`	`(n800)`
`09:55.24`	`*** join/#maemo zumbi_ (n=zumbi@12.132.219.87.dynamic.jazztel.es)`
`10:09.05`	`Hurgh`	`hi`
`10:09.34`	`Hurgh`	`does anybody else have problems with the device mode when os boots from mmc?`
`10:13.56`	`*** join/#maemo sp3000 (n=tt@hoasb-ff0ddd00-250.dhcp.inet.fi)`
`10:36.03`	`*** join/#maemo londo (n=georgiou@82.133.49.59)`
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`10:37.39`	`amr`	`the correct way to unmount my mmc is to do umount -l /media/mmc1 in xterm isnt it`
`10:37.40`	`amr`	`as root`
`10:40.42`	`Hurgh`	`why -l ?`
`10:41.36`	*** part/#maemo amr (n=amr`@cpc3-leed7-0-0-cust755.leed.cable.ntl.com)
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`10:41.49`	`amr`	`whoop`
`10:41.53`	`Hurgh`	`-l is not necessary`
`10:42.05`	`amr`	`i always get the message that its busy or in use`
`10:43.03`	`Hurgh`	`i don't if i close all apps which use it`
`10:43.58`	`amr`	`hm`
`10:44.00`	`pupnik`	`i've seen that too`
`10:44.12`	`Hurgh`	`nevertheless you're might use it with or without`
`10:44.13`	`pupnik`	`and there's no fuser command`
`10:44.20`	`Hurgh`	`-'re ^^`
`10:46.24`	`Hurgh`	`why do you think there's no fuser?`
`10:46.30`	`amr`	`oh it worked this time`
`10:46.48`	`pupnik`	`no idea - i use it to check process owners of opened devices`
`10:47.08`	`pupnik`	`like cdrom when it won't eject`
`10:47.25`	`Hurgh`	`i have it in /usr/bin`
`10:47.55`	`pupnik`	`Nokia770-49:~ it2006se here`
`10:48.27`	`Hurgh`	`oh ok`
`10:48.38`	`Hurgh`	`n800 since yesterday ^^`
`10:49.02`	`Hurgh`	`i didn't have a 770 before`
`10:49.46`	`pupnik`	`Hurgh: how do you like the 800 so far?`
`10:50.52`	`Hurgh`	`hm there are many interesting things i could use it for but it's not easy to set up`
`10:51.23`	`Hurgh`	`avahi-daemon is broken so i can't install canola at the moment`
`10:51.55`	`Hurgh`	`and the device mode doesn't work properly if you boot from mmc`
`10:52.00`	`Hurgh`	`for me at least`
`10:53.49`	`Hurgh`	`an hour ago i asked if anybody else had a problem`
`10:54.16`	`Hurgh`	`some days ago somebody asked the question too`
`10:54.25`	`Hurgh`	`but no answers :/`
`10:56.38`	`pupnik`	`'device mode'?`
`10:57.37`	`pupnik`	`usb 2.0 high speed device mode?`
`10:58.11`	`Hurgh`	`yes i think so`
`10:58.14`	`pupnik`	`oh connecting it to the PC via USB at all`
`10:58.20`	`Hurgh`	`yes`
`10:58.30`	`Hurgh`	`using the mmc as mass storage`
`10:58.45`	`pupnik`	`:/`
`10:58.51`	`pupnik`	`works for me (on 770)`
`10:59.03`	`pupnik`	`lemme check`
`10:59.04`	`Hurgh`	`with os on the mmc?`
`10:59.55`	`pupnik`	`1`
`11:00.22`	`pupnik`	`works fine`
`11:00.37`	`pupnik`	`is your vfat partition on /dev/mmcblk0p1 ?`
`11:00.43`	`Hurgh`	`yes`
`11:00.54`	`Hurgh`	`7gb :)`
`11:01.13`	`Hurgh`	`and 500mb ext2 on mmcblk0p2`
`11:02.08`	`pupnik`	`sorry, i don't know what to do`
`11:02.24`	`Hurgh`	`i think he would like to give the pc access to both partitions`
`11:02.27`	`pupnik`	`does dmesg output give any useful info?`
`11:02.49`	`Hurgh`	`but that doesn't work for the second because he booted from that one`
`11:03.05`	`Hurgh`	`and so he fails for mmc2`
`11:03.09`	`Hurgh`	`mmc1 works`
`11:03.28`	`Hurgh`	`no useful messages`
`11:04.27`	`Hurgh`	`i'll file a bug report`
`11:04.42`	`Hurgh`	`but now i have to eat :)`
`11:04.46`	`pupnik`	`i don't know if that's a bug`
`11:04.57`	`*** join/#maemo Sho_ (i=ehs1@kde/hein)`
`11:05.03`	`Hurgh`	`why not?`
`11:05.04`	`pupnik`	`afaik the usb automount is designed only for the first partition`
`11:05.49`	`Hurgh`	`if i boot from flash in device mode i can mount both partitions`
`11:06.15`	`pupnik`	`you can't mount the root partition in use`
`11:06.35`	`Hurgh`	`of course`
`11:06.45`	`Hurgh`	`and i think that's the problem`
`11:07.21`	`pupnik`	`it's not designed to allow that`
`11:08.07`	`pupnik`	`unless i have misunderstood, but i don't think i have`
`11:08.13`	`Hurgh`	`i only want to access the vfat partition :'(`
`11:08.19`	`Hurgh`	`^^`
`11:08.21`	`pupnik`	`oh`
`11:09.51`	`pupnik`	`Is this correct?: you boot from 2nd partition on mmc1, and want to access first vfat partition on mmc2?`
`11:10.12`	`Hurgh`	`no both mmc2`
`11:10.24`	`Hurgh`	`mmc1 is accessible`
`11:10.28`	`pupnik`	`ok`
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`11:32.59`	`rik`	`pupnik: i have kismet working :)`
`11:33.18`	`rik`	`and it's stable.`
`11:34.04`	`pupnik`	`kismet?`
`11:34.05`	`_Monkey`	`i think kismet is http://eko.one.pl/maemo mistral user or http://kismetwireless.net/code/kismet-svn-devel-n800.deb but don't complain if it doesn't work`
`11:34.12`	`rik`	`yup.`
`11:34.16`	`pupnik`	`what did you have to do?`
`11:34.20`	`rik`	`that's what you were helping me with yesterday.`
`11:34.30`	`pupnik`	`i was checking _monkey's information`
`11:34.35`	`rik`	`upgrade to latest OS. switch off WLAN scanning.`
`11:34.43`	`rik`	`and extend the idle times.`
`11:35.02`	`rik`	`it's okay, but it still leaves the wireless card unhappy when it quits`
`11:35.13`	`rik`	`but i left it sitting and running for > 10 minutes, and it was still grabbing packets.`
`11:35.17`	`pupnik`	`interesting - is there a web page / forum or wiki with info on how to do this?`
`11:35.18`	`pupnik`	`nice`
`11:35.40`	`pupnik`	`we shouls get that howto online somewhere`
`11:35.54`	`rik`	`all the info was on internettablettalk, it's jsut in 18 gajillion separate threads :)`
`11:36.35`	`rik`	`dragorn will also want to know this . he promised to have a script for it if i gave him the user-space parts. we're still SOL on the driver for the moment though.`
`11:37.50`	`pupnik`	`maemo.org wiki is down: http://maemo.org/community/indexb`
`11:38.05`	`rik`	`'k`
`11:38.12`	`pupnik`	`well if you can help pull the info together i guess internettablettalk is the only place`
`11:38.24`	`rik`	`yeah`
`11:38.30`	`pupnik`	`if there's a good thread for it, we can add it to monkey`
`11:38.41`	`pupnik`	`monkey can help search engines also to find the good info`
`11:38.51`	`rik`	`i'll giv ethe wiki a few hours, then check it again, and add it there, teach monkey about that instead.`
`11:40.04`	`pupnik`	`ok`
`11:40.08`	`pupnik`	`thanks`
`11:40.56`	`pupnik`	`http://test.maemo.org/maemowiki/TitleIndex#K`
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`11:47.15`	`pupnik`	`aloha sbaturzio :)`
`11:47.42`	`sbaturzio`	`pupnik: ciao`
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`11:53.44`	`Blacksito`	`hi`
`11:58.04`	`pupnik`	`moo`
`11:58.10`	`rm_you`	`if i install bash on my n800, it won't replace ash, right?`
`11:58.32`	`rm_you`	`it will just let me run it if i want?`
`11:58.40`	`pupnik`	`dunno`
`11:58.45`	`amr`	`is there anything different about mmc-mobile cards?`
`11:58.48`	`rm_you`	`:/`
`11:58.57`	`amr`	`my generic mmc reader cant seem to read it`
`11:59.01`	`pupnik`	`bash might symlink to /bin/sh or something`
`11:59.09`	`amr`	`actualy i think its my mac`
`11:59.24`	`pupnik`	`ls -l /bin/ash`
`11:59.24`	`pupnik`	`lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 7 Jul 29 12:13 /bin/ash -> busybox`
`11:59.27`	`amr`	`it worked fine in windows`
`11:59.43`	`rm_you`	`on the zaurus, installing bash replaced busybox, which basically meant it was fl sh time :/`
`12:00.05`	`rm_you`	`*flash time`
`12:00.23`	`pupnik`	`i'm feeling lucky`
`12:00.38`	`rm_you`	`lol`
`12:00.47`	`pupnik`	`bash: Depends: base-files (>= 2.1.12) but it is not going to be installed`
`12:01.06`	`*** join/#maemo zumbi (n=zumbi@50.132.219.87.dynamic.jazztel.es)`
`12:01.20`	`pupnik`	`hmm not sure i want to install bash now`
`12:01.32`	`rm_you`	`lol`
`12:01.54`	`*** join/#maemo juco2 (n=vickeryj@cpe-076-182-044-240.nc.res.rr.com)`
`12:03.03`	`*** join/#maemo vivijim (n=vivijim@200.184.118.132)`
`12:03.08`	`rm_you`	`ack!`
`12:03.30`	`rm_you`	`The following packages will be REMOVED:`
`12:03.47`	`rm_you`	`<PROTECTED>`
`12:04.00`	`rm_you`	`and about 30 other lines including... about every package on my system`
`12:04.13`	`rm_you`	`i'd say thats a no`
`12:04.43`	`rik`	`heheh`
`12:04.57`	`rm_you`	`but want bash :( sad`
`12:07.52`	`pupnik`	`i could compile it and see if the binary runs standalone`
`12:09.41`	`*** join/#maemo luck^ (n=Luciano@200.184.118.132)`
`12:10.48`	`rm_you`	`that would be really awesome, actually...`
`12:11.00`	`rm_you`	`though i think my friend here has a scratchbox setup`
`12:11.09`	`rm_you`	`so i could prolly figure it out too`
`12:11.16`	`rm_you`	`though i'm new to n800 dev stuff`
`12:11.29`	`rm_you`	`was working on Zaurus stuff until like last week :/`
`12:11.40`	`rm_you`	`just got my n800 like 4 days ago`
`12:11.56`	`rm_you`	`been experimenting with a2dp+video mostly`
`12:14.00`	`Hurgh`	`rm_you do you boot your os from mmc?`
`12:15.26`	`amr`	`im going to install linux on a vm on my macbook and play with creating a full screen clock application`
`12:17.11`	`rm_you`	`Hurgh: no`
`12:17.24`	`rm_you`	`Hurgh: didnt even know you could do that on the n800 :P`
`12:17.25`	`Hurgh`	`ok`
`12:17.33`	`rm_you`	`I did on my zaurus though... :P`
`12:17.44`	`Hurgh`	`i did it`
`12:18.15`	`rm_you`	`on an n800? or a zaurus? :P`
`12:18.21`	`Hurgh`	`n800`
`12:18.30`	`Hurgh`	`got it yesterday ^^`
`12:18.31`	`rm_you`	`lol, crazy`
`12:19.11`	`Hurgh`	`but now i cannot access the mmc as mass-storage via usb`
`12:19.17`	`rm_you`	`:(`
`12:19.55`	`Hurgh`	`i'm looking for others who have the same problem`
`12:20.21`	`rm_you`	`well it makes sense`
`12:20.49`	`rm_you`	`when it switches to usb mass storage mode, it unmounts the cards on the n800... it cant unmount the root filesystem while its in use... :/`
`12:21.35`	`Hurgh`	`it should only mount the first partition and that's a normal fat32`
`12:21.46`	`rm_you`	`hm`
`12:21.54`	`Hurgh`	`the second one is an ext2 as root`
`12:21.57`	`*** join/#maemo zumbi_ (n=zumbi@215.132.219.87.dynamic.jazztel.es)`
`12:22.02`	`rm_you`	`ah you made your SD have multiple partitions?`
`12:22.08`	`Hurgh`	`yes`
`12:22.10`	`rm_you`	`hrm`
`12:22.11`	`rm_you`	`dunno the`
`12:22.15`	`rm_you`	`*then`
`12:22.16`	`Hurgh`	`i followed the wiki`
`12:22.26`	`Blacksito`	`list the repositories for maemo mappers?`
`12:31.53`	`*** join/#maemo pupnik_ (n=pupnik@dslb-088-068-112-142.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
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`13:13.20`	`pupnik_`	`Optimised alpha blending on arm: (psx) http://gpsp-dev.blogspot.com/2007/04/arm-alpha-blending-pass.html`
`13:24.35`	`pupnik_`	`man psx4all loads about 20 times faster than pcsx`
`13:25.38`	`*** join/#maemo ekim\|irc- (i=ekim@dt061n59.tampabay.res.rr.com)`
`13:29.37`	`pupnik_`	`Virtio's VPOM-3430 Virtual Platform starts at $2,488 USD for a single user license and is available immediately.`
`13:37.15`	`*** join/#maemo ajturner (n=ajturner@adsl-67-38-13-205.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net)`
`13:37.59`	`*** join/#maemo ajturner (n=ajturner@adsl-67-38-13-205.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net)`
`13:38.57`	`pupnik_`	`3420 and 3210 also look intriguing`
`13:38.59`	`*** join/#maemo fork_ (n=chatzill@24.251.102-84.rev.gaoland.net)`
`13:39.10`	`fork_`	`hello`
`13:39.11`	`_Monkey`	`bonjour, fork_`
`13:39.31`	`pupnik_`	`looks like core might be 2-3x faster than 1136js`
`13:39.39`	`pupnik_`	`hi`
`13:39.39`	`_Monkey`	`bonjour, pupnik_`
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`13:59.55`	`amr`	`im getting that message saying that /media/mmc1 is busy when trying to umount`
`14:00.04`	`amr`	`should i just add -l and then take it out?`
`14:00.22`	`*** join/#maemo Sho_ (i=unknown@kde/hein)`
`14:03.50`	`*** join/#maemo andrunko (n=andrunko@20150179202.user.veloxzone.com.br)`
`14:05.29`	`*** join/#maemo UKP (n=UK1@217.171.137.241)`
`14:07.50`	`amr`	`anyone any ideas why an mmc mobile card wont work in any os through an mmc card reader`
`14:07.55`	`amr`	`whereas an rsmmc does`
`14:12.03`	`*** join/#maemo AD-N770 (n=jep@24.Red-80-26-22.staticIP.rima-tde.net)`
`14:13.37`	`*** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com)`
`14:18.01`	`pupnik`	`don't have a reader here sorry`
`14:18.19`	`*** join/#maemo matt_c_ (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com)`
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`14:34.37`	`Hurgh`	`amr have you tested it with other readers which definitely understand mmc 4.0?`
`14:37.35`	`erstazi`	`I need a drink, jack daniels preferably`
`14:40.38`	`Hurgh`	`anybody here with a n800 with os booting from mmc/sd?`
`14:47.51`	`*** join/#maemo adoyle (n=adoyle@static-72-74-246-2.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)`
`14:48.32`	`Veggen`	`duh. silly me. it's a bluetooth card reader I need`
`14:50.33`	`Veggen`	`(I've been looking for a bluetoothlike to usb storage thing without luck)`
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`15:04.30`	`Veggen`	`but hmm - does such a thing exist?`
`15:05.46`	`pupnik`	`interesting idea`
`15:07.27`	`pupnik`	`libasound2?`
`15:07.28`	`_Monkey`	`libasound2 is, like, binaries compiled under gregale at http://pupnik.de/ libasound2-dev_1.0.8-3_armel.deb libasound2-plugins_1.0.8-3_armel.deb libasound2_1.0.8-3_armel.deb`
`15:09.26`	`Veggen`	`there are some things, but it's not clear whether it's the thing i want or only an usb card reader with built in bluetooth dongle.`
`15:09.28`	`*** join/#maemo alex-weej (n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust237.midd.cable.ntl.com)`
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`15:55.21`	`pupnik`	`cyclone 68k core with notes http://notaz.gp2x.de/cyclone.php (hatari, uae, POSE, genesis... )`
`16:10.26`	`*** join/#maemo VimS (n=vims@dslb-084-061-021-085.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`16:12.57`	`Tu13es`	`how do I transfer a route I have on Google Maps to Maemo Mapper?`
`16:18.10`	`*** join/#maemo red-zack (n=mk@p5B045821.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`16:18.51`	`*** join/#maemo MrBIOS (n=aperez@adsl-76-247-108-103.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)`
`16:31.42`	`*** join/#maemo Tahitibob (n=david@guy78-4-82-243-43-241.fbx.proxad.net)`
`16:44.50`	`pupnik`	`good question Tu13es`
`16:45.33`	`Tu13es`	`i can't seem to get a route working on Maemo mapper either`
`16:48.24`	`Tu13es`	`can you move the route in Google Earth?`
`16:48.28`	`Tu13es`	`in GMaps you can pick up the line and drag it`
`16:50.06`	`sp3000`	`you probably can't drag it all the way to maemo mapper though`
`16:50.21`	`sp3000`	`:P`
`16:51.02`	`Tu13es`	`?`
`16:55.12`	`*** join/#maemo pello (n=pello@unaffiliated/pello)`
`16:55.36`	`pello`	`hello, i'm looking for a wiki under n800`
`16:56.24`	`*** join/#maemo kreig (i=craig@h-68-164-14-24.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net)`
`16:56.25`	`kreig`	`hola`
`16:56.28`	`kreig`	`new n800 user`
`16:56.39`	`pello`	`hola`
`16:56.41`	`pupnik`	`valkommen`
`16:57.29`	`kreig`	`i crash it quite a bit mroe than I would expect`
`16:57.51`	`kreig`	`so I wanna figur eout why, but found /var/log emtpy 8)`
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`16:58.25`	`kreig`	`I also need to do some debugging of my wireless link`
`16:58.33`	`trevarthan`	`kreig: what crashed?`
`16:58.37`	`trevarthan`	`the n800?`
`16:58.38`	`_Monkey`	`the n800 is probably much better than a desk phone :-)`
`16:58.38`	`kreig`	`because it just can't hold it for more than a few minutes and then it will just lock up and reset`
`16:58.51`	`kreig`	`so I was looking for iwconfig, and no luck`
`16:58.59`	`kreig`	`PS, I have root by sshing to root@localhost`
`16:59.22`	`trevarthan`	`krieg: if your wireless causes the n800 to reset, try replacing your router?`
`16:59.30`	`trevarthan`	`that's definitely not normal`
`16:59.40`	`trevarthan`	`s/krieg/kreig/`
`16:59.44`	`kreig`	`trevarthan: well, I have considered that, but I would poop on this thing if a remote router reset it`
`17:00.04`	`trevarthan`	`are you running the latest firmware?`
`17:00.10`	`trevarthan`	`(on the n800)`
`17:00.12`	`kreig`	`yes, 4.2007...`
`17:00.26`	`kreig`	`but, I also understand that making it not blow up may take some hackering`
`17:00.44`	`kreig`	`my neighbor has one and doesn't seem to have this issue`
`17:00.45`	`trevarthan`	`kreig: no, it really shouldn't. mine is rock solid.`
`17:00.56`	`kreig`	`he already has a devel environment setup`
`17:01.08`	`trevarthan`	`kreig: do you have another wireless network you can test with? just to rule out it being a b0rked router?`
`17:01.13`	`kreig`	`yah, I played with his n800 for awhile and didn't have the problem on his ten`
`17:01.25`	`*** join/#maemo sbaturzio (n=sbaturzi@host244-136-static.36-88-b.business.telecomitalia.it)`
`17:01.29`	`kreig`	`trevarthan: yah, I can find a bar to test it at, and have some testing beers too`
`17:01.37`	`trevarthan`	`lol`
`17:01.50`	`trevarthan`	`yeah, try that. if it still crashes, get it replaced under warranty.`
`17:01.54`	`kreig`	`I figure if it still blows up, then I got a bum machine, because I have several friends with them and they haven't mentioned this`
`17:02.04`	`trevarthan`	`if it doesn't blow up, get the router replaced.`
`17:02.16`	`kreig`	`oh man, that is TWO routers on this LAN that need replacement`
`17:02.33`	`trevarthan`	`well, don't jump to conclusions yet. try it on another network first.`
`17:02.38`	`pupnik`	`exactly`
`17:02.39`	`kreig`	`they are old, cheap linksys crap`
`17:02.50`	`kreig`	`hehe`
`17:03.22`	`kreig`	`so, is ther ea equiv to iwconfig?`
`17:03.55`	`pupnik`	`nice, about 300 ml of orange juice on my compaq keyboard and it still works`
`17:04.15`	`pupnik`	`i just poured it out... :/`
`17:04.39`	`kreig`	`something is wacky here`
`17:04.46`	`trevarthan`	`kreig: I don't know regarding iwconfig. I've never needed it. The GUI does a really good job.`
`17:04.48`	`kreig`	`I can ping the router, but can't connect to it's web interface`
`17:04.54`	`pupnik`	`yeah ifconfig works`
`17:05.06`	`kreig`	`well ifconfig doesn't tell me nifty things about the wireless connection`
`17:05.21`	`trevarthan`	`kreig: can't you get that from the control panel?`
`17:05.25`	`*** part/#maemo pello (n=pello@unaffiliated/pello)`
`17:05.34`	`kreig`	`trevarthan: nope`
`17:05.35`	`pupnik`	`i don't have iwconfig on the 770 though`
`17:07.23`	`kreig`	`hmmm`
`17:07.31`	`kreig`	`I think I might try to reflash it`
`17:07.31`	`orakle`	`that's wireless-tools`
`17:07.32`	`*** join/#maemo mazzen (n=Markus@u30-237.dsl.vianetworks.de)`
`17:07.34`	`*** join/#maemo Luria (n=ibnNagre@207-237-220-85.c3-0.80w-ubr16.nyr-80w.ny.cable.rcn.com)`
`17:07.37`	`kreig`	`opera is sucking`
`17:07.38`	`*** join/#maemo melmoth (n=user@dyn-91-165-102-171.ppp.tiscali.fr)`
`17:07.48`	`kreig`	`I can ping the shit, but operate is crapping it's pants`
`17:08.37`	`trevarthan`	`kreig: try installing microb`
`17:08.37`	`kreig`	`or it could be that the router lameness is letting ICMP packets thru but dropping others`
`17:09.00`	`Hurgh`	`yes that was one of the first things i downloaded`
`17:09.02`	`trevarthan`	`microb works better than Opera for some sites (though overall I find it slower and buggier)`
`17:09.39`	`trevarthan`	`microb crashes like crazy on ITT. so annoying.`
`17:09.53`	`Hurgh`	`oO`
`17:09.59`	`Hurgh`	`i had no crash so far`
`17:12.56`	`kreig`	`bewm, another crash`
`17:13.47`	`kreig`	`orakle: is wireless-tools the name of the package?`
`17:13.57`	`Luria`	`after i installed rtcomm, contacts default to showing avatars. so I know how to switch "contacts" to list view... but now "speed contacts" is stuck in avatar display and takea up too much space on the desktop. anyone know if i can change the speed contacts display back to the old style?`
`17:14.13`	`kreig`	`ok, it crashes, and then it reboots, and then it gets to the little hands touching splash screen and reboots again and then it is fine`
`17:14.51`	`*** join/#maemo vivijim (n=vivijim@200.184.118.132)`
`17:15.18`	`kreig`	`then it locks up when I launch x-terminal`
`17:15.20`	`kreig`	`hmm`
`17:15.27`	`kreig`	`I'm getting suspicious that I got a bad unit`
`17:15.45`	`kreig`	`I'm gonna reflash it`
`17:15.52`	`kreig`	`nuke it all and see what happens`
`17:16.37`	`pupnik`	`yes reflash and test on another wlan if possible`
`17:17.30`	`kreig`	`i want the n800 luv`
`17:17.32`	`kreig`	`i know it is there`
`17:18.01`	`kreig`	`my goal is to right a program to crash my pals iPhone when we are on the same wlan`
`17:18.13`	`kreig`	`so far, it looks like I'm in trouble 8)`
`17:18.17`	`*** join/#maemo Silicium (n=marco@2001:1620:2003:1:1:0:0:1)`
`17:18.20`	`Silicium`	`hi there`
`17:18.20`	`_Monkey`	`hi, Silicium`
`17:18.32`	`Silicium`	`are there problems with the repositorys?`
`17:18.52`	`erstazi`	`hi Silicium`
`17:18.56`	`Hurgh`	`hi`
`17:19.00`	`erstazi`	`Silicium, _Monkey is a bot`
`17:19.03`	`Hurgh`	`trying installing canola?`
`17:19.10`	`Silicium`	`nope`
`17:19.12`	`Silicium`	`xterm`
`17:19.17`	`erstazi`	`Silicium, and which repositories, n800 or 770?`
`17:19.23`	`Silicium`	`n800`
`17:19.24`	`Silicium`	`mora`
`17:19.26`	`Silicium`	`b`
`17:19.53`	`erstazi`	`Silicium, I am not too sure about OS2007's repos... but you might need some GPG keys`
`17:19.59`	`kreig`	`Silicium, make sure to chang ethe COmponents field too, form user to free non-free`
`17:20.20`	`kreig`	`I got a gpg error on the nokia repo as well`
`17:20.25`	`Silicium`	`i have the problem since yesterday`
`17:20.28`	`kreig`	`the 3rd party one had a bad signature`
`17:20.41`	`kreig`	`it was yesterday when I tried it for the first time`
`17:20.44`	`Silicium`	`the gpg error is imho only a warning`
`17:20.50`	`erstazi`	`when I get a bad signature, I just go through the repos with a browser and download`
`17:21.07`	`Silicium`	`hmm, ok`
`17:21.23`	`Silicium`	`are there a new gpg key available?`
`17:23.28`	`*** join/#maemo Blacksitox (n=FuckYou@unaffiliated/blacksito)`
`17:25.49`	`*** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com)`
`17:27.53`	`kreig`	`can ou flash this thing from linux?`
`17:31.44`	`Luria`	`why does the scifi network suck?`
`17:32.14`	`Hurgh`	`kreig of course ^^`
`17:33.25`	`kreig`	`ok, flashed it and still it is fucky`
`17:33.59`	`kreig`	`i pack it up, and head towards Nokia store and try it on a different wlan on the way there`
`17:34.07`	`kreig`	`my wlan is definetly old and abnormal`
`17:34.25`	`kreig`	`for instance, the DHCP server is a different router than the wiresless one`
`17:34.31`	`kreig`	`and so on...`
`17:40.07`	`*** join/#maemo unique311 (n=stan@ool-457ae2a6.dyn.optonline.net)`
`17:46.22`	`*** join/#maemo Yamazaki-kun (n=bsa3@212.183.134.211)`
`17:55.10`	`kreig`	`wooo`
`17:55.13`	`kreig`	`well, it's a bum unit`
`17:55.27`	`kreig`	`I went ot the public library and it lockedup and went kaplooey`
`17:55.32`	`kreig`	`that is to wlan's`
`17:55.33`	`kreig`	`two`
`17:56.03`	`*** join/#maemo Sulis_ (n=syrinx@87.114.133.212.plusnet.thn-ag1.dyn.plus.net)`
`17:56.15`	`kreig`	`luckily I live near the flagship Nokia store here in Chicago`
`17:56.20`	`kreig`	`let's go see how their customer service is`
`17:59.24`	`Luria`	`well, its good in nyc`
`18:01.37`	`*** join/#maemo Cyorxamp (n=Cyorxamp@212.57.229.111)`
`18:01.53`	`Cyorxamp`	`Lo, I'm getting an N800 soon but I need to know something from the horses mouth`
`18:02.14`	`Cyorxamp`	`I used to have Jornada 928, a device that also has a texas instruments processor`
`18:02.25`	`Cyorxamp`	`Is the N800 with its OMAP 300mhz a little on the slow side? at all?`
`18:03.11`	`Cyorxamp`	`My Jornada is now 5 years old! and the texas CPU it has isn't that much different than the N800's`
`18:03.19`	`disq`	`it's much better than the n770, but i guess a little more juice wouldn't hurt`
`18:04.24`	`Cyorxamp`	`I'm getting a new phone on monday on contract with a 3G tarrif for data use (need a new phone that has bluetooth for the N800) - but I'm worried that the features of the nokia phone will be ultimately similar to the N800 :S`
`18:05.00`	`Cyorxamp`	`And I can't find any Linux PDA/Phones anywhere :( unless you want a hack jobbed XDA`
`18:05.11`	`disq`	`get the most basic 3g+bt phone if you're also getting a tablet`
`18:05.25`	`Cyorxamp`	`thats a tall order`
`18:05.40`	`disq`	`there's the neo1973 (openmoko) but afaik it's still beta`
`18:05.48`	`Luria`	`samsung a717`
`18:05.58`	`Luria`	`or 727`
`18:06.19`	`Luria`	`or mot razr v3xx`
`18:06.22`	`Cyorxamp`	`A colour screen, bluetooth, 3G phone that doesn't do much else than call and text - they always have mp3 playback, and cameras, and all sorts of crap`
`18:07.01`	`Cyorxamp`	`Luria: both of those are phones, not what I'd call PDA/Phones`
`18:07.15`	`Luria`	`oh`
`18:07.55`	`Luria`	`none are smart phones. which is great if you have an n800`
`18:08.25`	`Cyorxamp`	`don't suppose theres word about the next nokia linux device being a PDA/Phone is there?`
`18:08.38`	`Cyorxamp`	`I'd put up with my Zaurus a little longer if that was the case`
`18:09.13`	`Luria`	`god, i hope not`
`18:09.53`	`Cyorxamp`	`anyone tried a Nokia E65 with a N800`
`18:09.55`	`gla55_`	`unlikely you'll see a phone maemo device too soon..`
`18:10.00`	`disq`	`yeah, it would be awful`
`18:10.06`	`gla55_`	`e65 should work brilliantly with n800..`
`18:10.12`	`disq`	`Cyorxamp: probably. did you check ITT?`
`18:10.17`	`gla55_`	`it's not a bad phone otherwise either`
`18:10.18`	`disq`	`_Monkey: ITT?`
`18:10.20`	`_Monkey`	`ITT is http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums`
`18:10.32`	`Cyorxamp`	`I don't mind the whole phone and a pda thing - when the phone isn't trying to double up the feature set of the PDA`
`18:11.09`	`gla55_`	`just don't use the featuers if you don't care.. buying a device thats intentionally limited never made that much sense to me especially if the features were just a bit of software..`
`18:11.35`	`Cyorxamp`	`rawr, ok theres on thing that annoys me then`
`18:11.36`	`disq`	`i have no use for PDA's, my phone's (nokia 6021, really basic and old) calendar is enough for me. I don't use outlook or another calendar on the pc, so no sync trouble :P`
`18:11.40`	`gla55_`	`deciding to not buy a phone that has the right size, featureset etc just because it has a smartphone os would be stupid`
`18:11.54`	`Cyorxamp`	`it's fine that I can say... E65 for casual 'going out'-ness with the camera and shit and no pda`
`18:11.59`	`Cyorxamp`	`But then I'd be annoyed theres no OGG playback!`
`18:12.04`	`gla55_`	`...`
`18:12.08`	`gla55_`	`just get oggplay?`
`18:12.14`	`Cyorxamp`	`on a E65?`
`18:12.27`	`gla55_`	`s60 3rd ed`
`18:12.35`	`gla55_`	`it's symbian`
`18:12.35`	`Cyorxamp`	`eh?`
`18:12.51`	`Cyorxamp`	`so I can play ogg on the E65?`
`18:13.02`	`gla55_`	`<PROTECTED>`
`18:13.06`	`gla55_`	`yes`
`18:13.10`	`Cyorxamp`	`cool :P`
`18:13.23`	`Cyorxamp`	`see now you're making me think along the lines of 'The Phone and the Operating System'`
`18:13.24`	`Cyorxamp`	`ABHABH!HB!SWhb1]`
`18:13.33`	`Cyorxamp`	`It's not computer! the N800 is!`
`18:14.02`	`gla55_`	`of couse nobody is forcing you to install any 3rd party software on it if you don't want..`
`18:14.15`	`gla55_`	`i'd still prefer s60 due to multitasking etc over a normal "featurephone"`
`18:16.40`	`Luria`	`i get the pda phone. i just think its dubious to combine mobility with the need to be near an outlet ;-) hence my n800+bt internet approach`
`18:17.01`	`Cyorxamp`	`Don't suppose maemo will come out for any other existing nokia (now symbian powered) devices ?`
`18:19.21`	`Cyorxamp`	`Ok ok ok ok ok.... nevermind that`
`18:19.41`	`erstazi`	`Cyorxamp, yeah, maemo is the community`
`18:19.58`	`Cyorxamp`	`and the community that drives the next release of the OS`
`18:20.13`	`erstazi`	`Cyorxamp, but symbian based... I highly doubt that`
`18:20.14`	`Cyorxamp`	`E65 + N800 - fair enough... in terms of the information the E65 can stores (calanders, contacts, pictures, videos, etc etc...) can it sync nicely with the N800 ?`
`18:20.43`	`Cyorxamp`	`Some kind of odd version of gnokii for N800 ? :P`
`18:20.50`	`erstazi`	`Cyorxamp, tablets work fine enough without a Symbian based OS.`
`18:21.23`	`Cyorxamp`	`what are you on about?`
`18:21.26`	`erstazi`	`I think if Nokia is smart (which they usually are except that last blunder of a phone they just released), they will stick with an open source OS`
`18:22.00`	`erstazi`	`Cyorxamp, are you referring to phones or tablets?`
`18:22.05`	`erstazi`	`that will clear things up`
`18:22.14`	`Cyorxamp`	`<Cyorxamp>> E65 + N800 - fair enough... in terms of the information the E65 can stores (calanders, contacts, pictures, videos, etc etc...) can it sync nicely with the N800 ?`
`18:22.29`	`Cyorxamp`	`I'm very clearly on about the E65 and N800 syncing`
`18:23.08`	`disq`	`you can browse pics/videos/files on the phone from the n800, but there won't be any syncing`
`18:23.21`	`Cyorxamp`	`totally useless!`
`18:23.37`	`Cyorxamp`	`Has gnokii been added to the repo's ?`
`18:23.44`	`erstazi`	`Cyorxamp, I am not sure about the E65, but does it have BT?`
`18:24.02`	`Cyorxamp`	`yeah erstazi it does, or it'd be a poor choice`
`18:24.07`	`disq`	`there's a project in the garage that uses gnokii. not sure about the name`
`18:24.10`	`gla55_`	`of course it has..`
`18:24.11`	`disq`	`dialer? or something?`
`18:24.21`	`gla55_`	`<PROTECTED>`
`18:25.04`	`Cyorxamp`	`bugger it, I'm not getting an E65 - even if its free when i go on contract, it'll annoy the hell out of me`
`18:25.07`	`erstazi`	`ugh I hate when svn does this`
`18:25.48`	`disq`	`Cyorxamp: this project has, and uses, gnokii: https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=31`
`18:26.00`	`*** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com)`
`18:26.16`	`Luria`	`oh new ukmp release. neat.`
`18:26.42`	`Cyorxamp`	`disq, the OS does have a proper packagement management doesn't it ? - i.e. apt-get whatever I want on the go via 3G`
`18:26.55`	`Cyorxamp`	`I'm getting this because I love my debian :P`
`18:27.08`	`disq`	`yeah but you can't install regular debian packages`
`18:27.12`	`disq`	`they have to be compiled for armel (not arm)`
`18:27.21`	`Cyorxamp`	`yeah I realise that`
`18:27.23`	`erstazi`	`Cyorxamp, yeah, you have to make sure its for the ARM(el) architecture`
`18:27.28`	`Cyorxamp`	`yes thank you!`
`18:27.30`	`erstazi`	`but!`
`18:27.48`	`Cyorxamp`	`jees, I've been using PDA's that are ARM and also a linux Zaurus for ages - I get the diff!`
`18:27.49`	`erstazi`	`get this, you can grab the source and package it yourself for armel arch through scratchbox`
`18:28.17`	`Luria`	`Cyorxamp, i hope someone told you, you need to recompile debs for armel.`
`18:28.18`	`erstazi`	`and the documentation for porting is very well formed compared to others out there`
`18:28.24`	`erstazi`	`Luria, heh`
`18:28.26`	`Cyorxamp`	`So, when bought - it'll have a link to the maemo repo URL already in it>?`
`18:28.48`	`erstazi`	`Cyorxamp, yes, there are even people's sources.list they posted in the wiki or in forums like ITT`
`18:28.54`	`pupnik`	`actually the nokia tablets use gentoo and you need to compile everything`
`18:29.00`	`erstazi`	`pupnik, heh`
`18:29.02`	`Cyorxamp`	`and presumably some variation of synaptic to stop you from hitting terminal all the time`
`18:29.18`	`erstazi`	`that would be a distro that would be fun to see ran on a nokia`
`18:29.43`	`Luria`	`not run... crawl`
`18:30.11`	`erstazi`	`heh`
`18:30.12`	`disq`	`Cyorxamp: there's the "application manager" which basically does apt-get update and invokes apt/dpkg to install stuff on user's request. you can manage the sources.list from there too, etc.`
`18:30.16`	`Luria`	`how many people here are zaurus refugees ?`
`18:30.39`	`Luria`	`the app manager blows.`
`18:30.57`	`Cyorxamp`	`I'm gonna turn my zaurus into an Alarm Clock :P`
`18:30.59`	`erstazi`	`I find just using xterm and apt-get update or apt-get install foo works fine as well`
`18:31.04`	`Luria`	`i had a 5600? you?`
`18:31.12`	`Cyorxamp`	`I've still got a 5500`
`18:31.29`	`erstazi`	`I think my sources.list is very up to date with the different repos that are working for OS2006`
`18:31.37`	`Luria`	`my 5600 wont take a charge`
`18:31.49`	`Cyorxamp`	`Luria the OZ team have really fucked things up tho - and the repositories are totally broken`
`18:31.55`	`Cyorxamp`	`time to jump ship`
`18:32.22`	`amr`	`do i anounce a public away mesage?`
`18:32.41`	`Cyorxamp`	`http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_8910i-370.php`
`18:32.41`	`pupnik`	`amr: not yet`
`18:32.46`	`amr`	`oh good`
`18:32.50`	`Cyorxamp`	`it looks nice, theres no silly camera, its bluetooth`
`18:32.58`	`amr`	`new client and it told me it had set me away`
`18:32.59`	`Cyorxamp`	`damnit no 3G`
`18:33.02`	`Luria`	`i thought about moving to a 1000 or a 3200, but the nokia seemed wiser. i do miss the keyboard though.`
`18:33.20`	`pupnik`	`i love the thinkoutside stowaway - fits in the other pocket`
`18:33.37`	`disq`	`i got my keys and phone in the other pocket`
`18:34.09`	`Luria`	`yeah... i have the think outside (now igo ultra slim)`
`18:34.28`	`erstazi`	`honestly, when I first got my nokia a while back, I thought I was going to break it instantly (especially with kids and travelling)`
`18:34.30`	`Luria`	`my "kit" is:`
`18:35.53`	`Luria`	`n800, iblue 757 pro, ultra slim, retractable usb; all in a civilian labs bag.`
`18:36.18`	`erstazi`	`nice`
`18:36.31`	`Cyorxamp`	`is N800 micro or mini SD I forget`
`18:36.40`	`Cyorxamp`	`stupid card manufacturers!`
`18:36.42`	`erstazi`	`iblue 757 pro is a bt keyboard right?`
`18:36.42`	`Luria`	`only this left is a solar panel and a replacement for my class 4 edge phone.`
`18:37.11`	`Luria`	`iblue 757 pro is a solar gps`
`18:37.45`	`disq`	`Cyorxamp: two full-size sd slots`
`18:37.51`	`Luria`	`Cyorxamp, its normal sd(hc)`
`18:38.18`	`erstazi`	`nice Luria`
`18:38.48`	`Luria`	`when i said ultra slim, i meant an igo ultra slim model bt kybd`
`18:38.49`	`erstazi`	`Luria, I think that might be my next investment is gps`
`18:39.10`	`*** join/#maemo MaemoUS (n=MaemoUS@189.25.90.145)`
`18:39.13`	`erstazi`	`Luria, if you don't mind me asking, how much was the igo keyboard?`
`18:39.34`	`Luria`	`which is should be using, 'cause the thumb board makes me tired`
`18:39.34`	`Cyorxamp`	`Wow I can only fine ONE (1, one, uno, I) Nokia phone without camera, but with 3G and BT`
`18:39.46`	`Cyorxamp`	`How does a E60 + N800 sound?`
`18:40.00`	`Cyorxamp`	`damnit it's got symbian crap!`
`18:40.00`	`erstazi`	`Cyorxamp, I know some who join here use that combo`
`18:40.25`	`erstazi`	`but I do not know about sharing files`
`18:40.53`	`Cyorxamp`	`Card slot: RS-DV-MMC, hotswap`
`18:41.05`	`Cyorxamp`	`bleh!? not mini/normal/micro SD ?`
`18:41.15`	`Cyorxamp`	`I know SD is based on MMC - but thats not clear`
`18:41.23`	`Luria`	`not at all. it used to be think outside. the model (with the new name) still goes for $100 (reputable nyc b&m store)`
`18:42.05`	`erstazi`	`Cyorxamp, last I knew, n800 can take a mmc/rs-mmc card`
`18:42.27`	`*** join/#maemo qgil (n=qgil@a88-112-12-130.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`18:42.41`	`Luria`	`ive seen it for much more on line. but also less - about 70 is the best ive seen.`
`18:44.13`	`Luria`	`it ain't perfect - the number row is a trade off and the question mark on the up arrow is problematic for irc`
`18:44.24`	`Cyorxamp`	`abhGh gdh chjejip efo[qwd0eriu w`
`18:44.31`	`Cyorxamp`	`oops`
`18:45.11`	`Luria`	`(which is why you will sometimes see me repeat a sentence from minutes before and then immediately ask a question ;-)`
`18:45.53`	`Luria`	`what? forgot this isnt #klingon?`
`18:46.11`	`Cyorxamp`	`Ka'Pla!`
`18:46.29`	`*** part/#maemo Cyorxamp (n=Cyorxamp@212.57.229.111)`
`18:47.10`	`*** join/#maemo Cyorxamp (n=Cyorxamp@212.57.229.111)`
`18:47.17`	`Cyorxamp`	`No one in that channel :P`
`18:47.26`	`Cyorxamp`	`So disappointing !`
`18:48.20`	`Cyorxamp`	`I think I might let O2 give me one of these horrid E65 phones, does anyone know if the media player (or any others you know you can download) can swap from MP3 to OGG naturally?`
`18:48.44`	`Luria`	`a lone warrior, alone, searching for honor. on irc. alone.`
`18:48.50`	`Cyorxamp`	`On the OpenZaurus OS it comes with XMMS ... which does this nice - but on the normal Zaurus OS, its a case of using 'Media Player' and OGGPlay`
`18:49.32`	`gla55_`	`Cyorxamp: what you mean with swap naturally?`
`18:49.43`	`Cyorxamp`	`A good 75% of my music is in OGG, but it spoils it when those few tracks arn't and a different bit of software is needed to play it`
`18:49.45`	`gla55_`	`Cyorxamp: if you use oggplay on s60 you can use it to play both mp3's and oggs like`
`18:49.45`	`Cyorxamp`	`yeah`
`18:50.00`	`gla55_`	`iirc at least`
`18:50.04`	`Luria`	`i prefer unnatural swapping.`
`18:50.13`	`Cyorxamp`	`hmm, is the oggplay you've on about not the same as the oggplay I use on my zaurus ?`
`18:50.25`	`gla55_`	`too bad mmf plugin that would be supported by the built in player would need all-tcb signing from nokia`
`18:50.32`	`gla55_`	`it's symbianoggplay`
`18:50.42`	`Cyorxamp`	`http://www.rotters.de/`
`18:51.22`	`Cyorxamp`	`oh cool, yeah not the same`
`18:54.11`	`Cyorxamp`	`I take it the whole 3G Phone + Bluetooth + N800 .... thing, is a walk in the park?`
`18:54.49`	`*** join/#maemo sbaturzio (n=sbaturzi@host244-136-static.36-88-b.business.telecomitalia.it)`
`18:54.49`	`kulve`	`it is`
`18:58.37`	`*** join/#maemo sbaturzio (n=sbaturzi@host244-136-static.36-88-b.business.telecomitalia.it)`
`18:59.53`	`qgil`	`cool: http://movemydata.org/`
`19:03.31`	`Cyorxamp`	`ok I've had a think, I've come to the conclusion the N800 is pointless - but its been great chatting and I thank you for your help! :P`
`19:12.39`	`Cyorxamp`	`the only thing I'm buying is Pizza :P`
`19:12.52`	`Cyorxamp`	`and maybe a SL-C3200 or a UMPC :P`
`19:14.03`	`qgil`	`Cyorxamp: just curious, have you used the N800`
`19:14.18`	`Cyorxamp`	`nope, no shops around here have one - been phoning all day`
`19:14.30`	`qgil`	`Cyorxamp: where do you live`
`19:14.39`	`Cyorxamp`	`UK, above Stoke-on-Trent`
`19:15.22`	`*** join/#maemo sbaturzio (n=sbaturzi@host244-136-static.36-88-b.business.telecomitalia.it)`
`19:16.10`	`qgil`	`Cyorxamp: as far as I know in the UK you find it in some chains in main streets and malls`
`19:16.31`	`Cyorxamp`	`nokia lists only two nokia shops in staffordshire - none near me`
`19:16.44`	`Cyorxamp`	`and no guarantees they will have the N800`
`19:17.07`	`Cyorxamp`	`I've changed my mind about the N800 anyway - it does seem kinda pointless now, I fell in love with the whole debian factor`
`19:17.50`	`qgil`	`dixons, currys, carphone house... but ok, I'm not selling devices :)`
`19:17.57`	`Cyorxamp`	`:D`
`19:18.56`	`Cyorxamp`	`To me it now just looks like a E45, that had a big screen, no phone or 3G, and an oversized onscreen keyboard`
`19:19.19`	`Cyorxamp`	`I'd rather go for a clamshell design like the Zaurus SL-C3200 or like most UMPC's`
`19:19.34`	`Cyorxamp`	`My SL-5500 has a thumbpad, as did my Jornada 928 ... I'd miss it`
`19:20.00`	`qgil`	`Cyorxamp: np, see you in 2009 ;)`
`19:20.18`	`Cyorxamp`	`Oh do tell :P`
`19:23.08`	`Cyorxamp`	`qgil: ?`
`19:23.21`	`qgil`	`Cyorxamp: yes`
`19:23.39`	`Cyorxamp`	`' np, see you in 2009 ;) ' - what do you mean!`
`19:24.27`	`qgil`	`Cyorxamp: that you are looking the Nokia N800 from a Nokia phones perspective - I believe it will take you a while to realize that this is a wrong perspective`
`19:24.56`	`qgil`	`the while will be longer or shorter depending on how much time it take for you to enjoy 60 minutes of tablet in your hands`
`19:25.03`	`qgil`	`so my guess is... 2009 :)`
`19:27.54`	`Cyorxamp`	`but it doesn't do anything new - at all`
`19:28.43`	`Cyorxamp`	`it's an internet tablet - that you can only use when huddled under the shelter of a wifi area - not for on the go`
`19:28.56`	`Cyorxamp`	`it can't sync with its own nokia phones for interconnectivity`
`19:29.42`	`Cyorxamp`	`its debian sure, which is yum yum yum - but I suspect glossed over`
`19:29.48`	`qgil`	`Cyorxamp: I won't tell you are not right: you are`
`19:30.32`	`qgil`	`Cyorxamp: it's just that you are missing the combination of factors that make these devices interesting`
`19:30.34`	`Cyorxamp`	`the new zaurus is yum - only sharp turn their back on you if your not japenese`
`19:30.50`	`Cyorxamp`	`I don't see what your getting at, neither have you explained`
`19:31.20`	`qgil`	`Cyorxamp: well, it's not easy to explain it - since I got my 770 I start using it and since then, well`
`19:32.38`	`qgil`	`Cyorxamp: I should find an explanation if I would be a seller - lucky I'm not - I'm just a happy user (full disclosure: and a Nokia employee)`
`19:35.05`	`gla55_`	`i dunno if i'd want to sync my 770 and n95..`
`19:35.25`	`gla55_`	`for mail etc.. just use the same online servers from both..`
`19:35.26`	`qgil`	`Cyorxamp: I think i've got it: it's 800px wide resolution and fits in my (jacket) pockets`
`19:35.52`	`Cyorxamp`	`but thats it, a big screen - I already said that`
`19:36.35`	`qgil`	`Cyorxamp: for me this is accessing to the web normally`
`19:36.52`	`qgil`	`Cyorxamp: this is what I mostly do with computers`
`19:36.58`	`Cyorxamp`	`as can many other PDA's with far less problems elsewhere`
`19:37.30`	`gla55_`	`no other pda has been so good for me for web`
`19:38.06`	`qgil`	`Cyorxamp: then I would match the other PDA's with the other factor: open platform to experiment whatever`
`19:38.11`	`Cyorxamp`	`I can't see how googling and searching pages, and filling out forms, and chatting on web pages is good when 90% of your screen becomes a keyboard!`
`19:38.18`	`Cyorxamp`	`as is a Zaurus`
`19:38.31`	`Cyorxamp`	`their only problem is no wifi!`
`19:38.49`	`Cyorxamp`	`but a proper keyboard!`
`19:39.00`	`*** join/#maemo Luria (n=ibnNagre@207-237-220-85.c3-0.80w-ubr16.nyr-80w.ny.cable.rcn.com)`
`19:39.31`	`qgil`	`Cyorxamp: with the tablet I'm making my passive web use: read email/web pages, listen/view stuff + little actions: brief answers, pings, clicks...`
`19:40.03`	`qgil`	`Cyorxamp: then at home/work I do the longer active tasks that require good keyboard and etc`
`19:40.12`	`qgil`	`with my laptop`
`19:40.30`	`gla55_`	`it's not a laptop replacement.. well.. sort of maybe if you get bt keyboard`
`19:41.49`	`qgil`	`well, and RAM, CPU, screen resolution - it is definitely not a laptop / PC substitute, but it's a great compagnion`
`19:42.42`	`trevarthan`	`Question for my fellow OSS developers out there: What do you think about accepting donations for software?`
`19:43.06`	`qgil`	`trevarthan: accepting or asking for?`
`19:43.10`	`Cyorxamp`	`good providing they don't affect the course of the development - like TransGaming does with Cedega`
`19:43.45`	`Cyorxamp`	`and optional, not a 'forced donation' for a serial like X-Chat for Windows is`
`19:43.51`	`erstazi`	`trevarthan, one of the companies I am contracted to donates to FOSS`
`19:44.19`	`trevarthan`	`qgil: accepting`
`19:44.40`	`erstazi`	`trevarthan, what license did you release your apps with?`
`19:44.44`	`trevarthan`	`GPL`
`19:44.51`	`erstazi`	`v2?`
`19:45.12`	`trevarthan`	`mmmm.... yeah v2.`
`19:45.42`	`erstazi`	`legally, I believe you are ok to accept donations, let me verify`
`19:45.44`	`disq`	`i donate to OSS, but i never accepted/asked for any of my software before`
`19:45.50`	`qgil`	`trevarthan: I don't see any difference than with any other donation : you ask the donor why and if the answer makes sense to you, you accept the money. If it doesn't, then don't.`
`19:46.02`	`erstazi`	`qgil, exactly`
`19:46.03`	`disq`	`depends on the app though. it makes the aspect of development more business-y, so if i don't like the project as much as i used to like it, then i won't accept donations for it`
`19:46.16`	`disq`	`because that will force me to work on it which i don't want to do at that point anyway`
`19:46.19`	`trevarthan`	`I wouldn't mind doing a ransom for certain features. It would provide a way for the community to motivate me to work on things that I have little to no interest in.`
`19:46.37`	`trevarthan`	`But I don't know if ransoms ever work, or if there is a professional way to go about it.`
`19:47.02`	`qgil`	`trevarthan: free software is about free-as-in-speech, the economical component is not conditioned`
`19:47.22`	`erstazi`	`unless you have a special license with the so-said entity`
`19:47.52`	`trevarthan`	`qgil: sure. but if I have no interest in developing a feature, and no-one else does either, then paying me to do it might help.`
`19:47.55`	`erstazi`	`like the project I am working on is going to be under those guidelines`
`19:48.53`	`qgil`	`trevarthan: but that's ok and has nothing to do with GPL itself: you are the author and you decide what to work on and what are your incentives`
`19:48.56`	`trevarthan`	`One of the problems I have with donations is that I'm not the only developer of Kagu. disq has helped considerably, and unique311 pitched in too. I wouldn't feel right accepting a donation when it isn't solely my work.`
`19:49.19`	`trevarthan`	`qgil: you're the one asking about the GPL. I know it doesn't conflict. I've read the GPL.`
`19:49.35`	`erstazi`	`trevarthan, well thats when you include them or have them donate to a different non-profit`
`19:49.38`	`qgil`	`trevarthan: this is what I referred to about making sense or not: your situation would be the same if you would have a restaurant or a fazine`
`19:49.50`	`qgil`	`not free software related only`
`19:49.59`	`trevarthan`	`ah. right. gotcha`
`19:50.49`	`erstazi`	`trevarthan, if I was in your shoes, I would have them donate to a IRS 501(c)(3) because it helps with tax returns (: (if you are in the US)`
`19:51.29`	`trevarthan`	`ah... now you're speaking tax crap. geez. I'd prefer to not have to deal with that.`
`19:51.35`	`erstazi`	`if the donation is spread out over 2 years, they receive 90% in tax cuts`
`19:51.54`	`trevarthan`	`Someone should set up a website that acts as a clearinghouse for OSS donations and handles all that crap for you.`
`19:51.55`	`erstazi`	`trevarthan, well, just advice...`
`19:51.56`	`disq`	`trevarthan: could ask what "part" that donation is for, and distribute the donation in "shares" (mind the double quotes there) depending on the answer. i only touched some of the code anyway`
`19:52.51`	`disq`	`but yeah if it comes to tax returns and all that BS i wouldn't bother either :)`
`19:52.56`	`trevarthan`	`disq: you might have only "touched" some of it. But you've put in damn near as many hours as I have in debugging, fixing, and discussion. Easily as valuable.`
`19:53.09`	`qgil`	`trevarthan: your donation looks more like a bounty, since it's conditioned to the development of a feature. I recommend you to read http://tieguy.org/blog/2006/06/18/crowding-out-of-intrinsic-motivations-aka-the-bounty-problem/`
`19:53.45`	`erstazi`	`disq, my point is, if its a considerable amount, then you could direct them to a non-profit of your favorite. but at the same time, it could be split amongst yinz`
`19:53.47`	`trevarthan`	`qgil: that was just one idea. I'm thinking about donations in general, bounties just being one part of it.`
`19:54.41`	`trevarthan`	`erstazi: yeah, I'd prefer to keep it in the project. I've never been a fan of giving money to non-profits.`
`19:54.51`	`trevarthan`	`qgil: reading that now, btw`
`19:54.56`	`qgil`	`trevarthan: read it any way :) Money in floss development is like sex in youth: once you do it you have left something behind`
`19:55.55`	`disq`	`disturbing analogy, i was looking for paying FOSS jobs`
`19:55.56`	`trevarthan`	`lol`
`19:56.20`	`*** join/#maemo UKP (n=UK1@chiren.zippysoft.com)`
`19:56.33`	`trevarthan`	`I never regretted sex in youth. :) Maybe it depends on how you go about it. :)`
`19:56.42`	`Luria`	`hmmm same joke. move it to thailand.`
`19:56.51`	`*** join/#maemo pdz- (n=paul@135.14.169.217.in-addr.arpa)`
`19:57.14`	`Luria`	`now it's paying.`
`19:59.18`	`Luria`	`okay, that was in poor taste.`
`20:01.07`	`trevarthan`	`seems like if I added a public bounty for a feature, that would keep someone who just wanted to work on it for fun from doing it.`
`20:01.27`	`*** join/#maemo Pierre (n=nwork@o207.orange.fastwebserver.de)`
`20:01.33`	`trevarthan`	`you'd have to receive payment then and there, and keep it hush hush or else it would hurt everyone else's motivation.`
`20:01.50`	`trevarthan`	`and you'd have to roll the feature out quickly`
`20:02.11`	`disq`	`yeah`
`20:02.15`	`trevarthan`	`that just doesn't seem real practical unless you're getting paid a lot for the feature.`
`20:03.01`	`trevarthan`	`"thank you" donations seem ok though. Seems like those would help the developer re-affirm their self worth. you know?`
`20:03.41`	`disq`	`i'd take an arstechnica review over any $30 donation`
`20:03.45`	`ajturner`	`trevarthan: bounties are usually put out for a feature that someone really wants now because they either have more time than money or an actual business use for hte feature - and instead of paying one of their devs (or if they don't have devs) then it's a way to encourage the ad-hoc chaotic foss community to focus on that feature at that moment`
`20:04.15`	`Silicium`	`hmm, where i can find the maemo mbr config and the kernel?`
`20:04.17`	`ajturner`	`I've done bounties, and also paid features on FOSS - and continue to do free dev`
`20:04.20`	`Silicium`	`<PROTECTED>`
`20:05.11`	`trevarthan`	`ajturner: yeah. It seems like public bounties are counter productive though.`
`20:05.18`	`ajturner`	`trevarthan: I disagree`
`20:05.29`	`disq`	`Silicium: kernel is in a seperate mtd partition`
`20:06.11`	`disq`	`Silicium: i don't know specific details though. a search for "mtd" in maemo.org could answer some of your questions`
`20:06.22`	`ajturner`	`from what I've seen and done - without a bounty some features just languish - they're hard or left to their own devices the available devs aren't interested in it`
`20:06.23`	`Silicium`	`ok thanks`
`20:06.35`	`ajturner`	`the benefit factor isn't high enough measured in "fun" alone`
`20:06.44`	`*** join/#maemo shackan (n=frob@host166-136-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)`
`20:06.58`	`trevarthan`	`ajturner: when have you ever seen a bounty paid out though? I see asterisk bounties all the time and nothing ever comes of them.`
`20:06.59`	`Silicium`	`and are existing other compatible Bluetooth keyboard?`
`20:07.02`	`ajturner`	`Threshold to Develop <= Fun + Money + Prestige`
`20:07.10`	`Silicium`	`not so for 150$`
`20:07.23`	`ajturner`	`trevarthan: XBox hack, wxWidgets`
`20:07.31`	`ajturner`	`NintendoDS Wifi`
`20:07.44`	`trevarthan`	`ajturner: how much were the bounty amounts?`
`20:07.47`	`ajturner`	`someone is working on getting Asterisk on iPHone I think`
`20:08.19`	`ajturner`	`trevarthan: $3000 US`
`20:08.27`	`ajturner`	`for the DS Wifi`
`20:08.46`	`ajturner`	`and yet there is still a very active community around even Wifi dev now - BECAUSE of that bounty enabled them`
`20:08.56`	`ajturner`	`http://sc.tri-bit.com/dswfb`
`20:09.23`	`disq`	`bounties over a certain amount (a grand? not sure) are ok, but below that i think not many devs will bother`
`20:09.27`	`ajturner`	`trevarthan: wxWidgets bounties: http://www.wxwidgets.org/wiki/index.php/WxWidgets_Bounties`
`20:09.33`	`disq`	`if it's easy to do most of the time it'll get implemented for free anyway`
`20:09.47`	`ajturner`	`disq: but "when" will it get implemented?`
`20:10.01`	`qgil`	`trevarthan: I keep the sex/money analogy - it's not the matter itself what makes it appropriate or not - it's the people involved, the friends, the context, the purpose`
`20:10.05`	`ajturner`	`if I'm a business, I don't want a possible year lead time - I mayb e willing to pay $300 to have it this month`
`20:10.17`	`qgil`	`in some cases it works and everybody is happy, in some cases it causes more trouble than other thing`
`20:10.29`	`qgil`	`there is not only one rule`
`20:10.29`	`disq`	`ajturner: ok, a valid argument`
`20:10.44`	`ajturner`	`qgil: but it's usually a problem with the people that weren't involved in the sex/bounty - they feel jealous & left out moreso`
`20:10.46`	`ajturner`	`their problem :)`
`20:11.37`	`qgil`	`ajturner: did you follow the issue in Debian about some maintainers getting paid to get the release done?`
`20:11.39`	`trevarthan`	`lol. the sex reference again.`
`20:11.48`	`ajturner`	`I missed how ti fits with Maemo dev - are their bounties being offered?`
`20:11.48`	`qgil`	`in GNOME the issue would be different`
`20:11.53`	`qgil`	`in Ubuntu it is different`
`20:11.53`	`qgil`	`etc`
`20:11.55`	`ajturner`	`qgil: no, didn't`
`20:12.16`	`ajturner`	`how is a bounty diff't from someone having a full-time job working on it?`
`20:12.41`	`ajturner`	`I was actually surprised at GUADEC how many companies are now heavily invested in Gnome`
`20:12.45`	`qgil`	`the context, the purpose... :)`
`20:12.54`	`*** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com)`
`20:12.55`	`ajturner`	`in fact, the conference felt kinda... 'corporate' ;)`
`20:13.58`	`ajturner`	`ah, I see trevarthan asked if donations were ok`
`20:15.03`	`milhouse`	`speaking of guadec... quim, any progress on the presentations being posted to maemo? I'd really like to see the Modest presentation`
`20:15.14`	`trevarthan`	`so, that sounds like it would make the guys doing it for free feel bad`
`20:15.20`	`qgil`	`milhouse: dirk is on holidays, so...`
`20:15.30`	`trevarthan`	`but I'm not sure that's a bad thing.`
`20:15.34`	`disq`	`speaking of guadec.. i'll see you all in istanbul next year. (kinda psyched)`
`20:15.52`	`qgil`	`milhouse: anyway, in my queue - I also want to have all these prsentations out`
`20:16.00`	`milhouse`	`qgil: ah ok, that's cool - thanks`
`20:17.40`	`qgil`	`ajturner: hum, have me met?`
`20:17.51`	`qgil`	`have we met, I mena`
`20:17.55`	`qgil`	`m e a n`
`20:18.30`	`ajturner`	`qgil: not sure if I ran into you at GUADEC? I presented on GeoClue with Henri Bergius (bergie) and Tuomas Kuosmannen`
`20:18.43`	`ajturner`	`and also did the OpenStreetMap lightning talk`
`20:18.58`	`milhouse`	`Would this be the right time to ask about OS 2007HE progress? :)`
`20:19.20`	`qgil`	`ajturner: I missed those sessions and many others due to GNOME & maemo colateral responsibilities :(`
`20:19.40`	`ajturner`	`sorry to hear - they were back-to-back :)`
`20:20.13`	`*** join/#maemo spect (n=spect@polsl4-193.rybnet.pl)`
`20:20.25`	`qgil`	`milhouse: it's always right time to ask this - a different story is the time to have answers`
`20:20.48`	`ajturner`	`qgil: you didn't come out for sushi or beers with the rest of the Nokia Maemo team?`
`20:20.51`	`milhouse`	`just wondering if it's still on track :)`
`20:20.56`	`milhouse`	`been a bit quiet`
`20:21.24`	`qgil`	`ajturner: sushi yes, beers too`
`20:21.47`	`milhouse`	`shed loads of new interest in 770s lately - i think exceeding n800 interest! :)`
`20:22.05`	`qgil`	`milhouse: it is on track, there is something quite ready - still with internal reviews though (and don't try to deduce any date from this because even myself fail at these exercises) :)`
`20:22.40`	`milhouse`	`excellent news - thanks quim`
`20:23.55`	`milhouse`	`i'd be happy to help test whatever you have ready :D`
`20:25.11`	`qgil`	`it's more in the non-code side milhouse - please don't make much fuzz of this since, really, I don't know when will be ready to be published`
`20:25.34`	`qgil`	`by non-code I mean non-developer`
`20:25.50`	`milhouse`	`ok, no problem - just wondering (others have asked on itt)`
`20:26.43`	`qgil`	`yes, I know - they also ask in my blog :)`
`20:27.06`	`milhouse`	`maybe a brief maemo update would suffice? :)`
`20:27.15`	`milhouse`	`essentially what you've said above`
`20:27.27`	`milhouse`	`just to calm the masses (of new 770 owners) :)`
`20:27.44`	`qgil`	`let me see if I can explain`
`20:27.52`	`qgil`	`to me there are 2 types of silence`
`20:28.10`	`qgil`	`1 type is we can't tell something because it's confidential etc`
`20:28.37`	`qgil`	`another type is we can't tell something because there are still details missing and to awake and then frustrate expectations we prefer to say nothing`
`20:28.56`	`sp3000`	`darn`
`20:29.18`	`qgil`	`now is the second category`
`20:29.30`	`milhouse`	`ok, but bear this in mind... a few weeks back (6+?) it was announced that os 2007he would be released in "weeks not months") - i'd provide a link to the maemo news archive but... ;)`
`20:29.43`	`qgil`	`sp3000: the last I would like is to get quoted in a sentence combining 770, silence and sex ;)`
`20:30.05`	`milhouse`	`since then - no news. definately worth just posting something that says "it will be a bit longer but not much" - no details required beyond that`
`20:30.33`	`milhouse`	`becuase now it is getting into months, rather than weeks :)`
`20:30.43`	`qgil`	`milhouse: and what if I write "not much" and then it happens that is somewhat "Much"?`
`20:31.08`	`qgil`	`milhouse: when I wrote that "weeks not months" I really thought would be like this`
`20:31.13`	`qgil`	`then the unplanned comes and etc`
`20:32.43`	`qgil`	`I can also quote sentences from maemo mailing lists or ITT of people (with their full right) saying that releases and changes matter more than more words`
`20:33.14`	`milhouse`	`qgil: absolutely, and i understand that you need to remain vague and even the best intentions of mice and men etc. mean the project slips... but from an end users point of view the "radio silence" surrounding OS 2007HE doesn't bode well. Remember that OS 2007 on 770 has caused a lot of angst so just a few words to say the project hasn't slipped off the radar would be nice`
`20:33.18`	`qgil`	`I think the best message is to release the new HE version - in the meantime perhaps silence is not the best option, but writing 'something' has its risks too`
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`20:34.02`	`milhouse`	`expectation management is one phrase that springs to mind... without the need to give an exact date, just something to say it's ticking along and not forgotten`
`20:35.11`	`qgil`	`hum`
`20:35.13`	`milhouse`	`"OS 2007HE UPDATE: It's still going to happen, hang in there. End of update." :)`
`20:35.47`	`milhouse`	`Devil you do, devil you don't I guess`
`20:36.56`	`qgil`	`alright, I'll do it but in the middle waters - enough to get me quoted in something less volatile than in an IRC log`
`20:37.25`	`milhouse`	`argh... don't make me feel guily!`
`20:37.28`	`milhouse`	`:)`
`20:37.39`	`milhouse`	`thanks :)`
`20:37.42`	`qgil`	`I'm trying to write this misc blog post, I'll add a 770 postdata - I'll sleep much better after that`
`20:38.05`	`milhouse`	`thank you!`
`20:38.36`	`qgil`	`no, thank you`
`20:39.05`	`milhouse`	`i hope it doesn't back fire on you - if it does, you can say you "told me so" :)`
`20:39.57`	`qgil`	`I don't mind getting back fired on stuff we are working on :)`
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`20:48.09`	`pello`	`syn syn syn`
`20:48.22`	`pello`	`are you aware of a minimcom / cu n800 package?`
`20:48.54`	`milhouse`	`Review of the T-Mobile Ameo in this months T3 mag, got 4 out of 5 stars, has a 640x480 screen costs �500 and was criticised for not being able to show Flash or YouTube... how does it get 4 stars?! The N800 got 3 stars at most (could have been 2) costs less, does more. What gives?`
`20:49.59`	`milhouse`	`I know T3 isn't a great tech mag (was once) but still... can't the reviewers be edumacated by Noka when they are given the device to review? :)`
`20:50.28`	`milhouse`	`s/Noka/Nokia/`
`20:50.48`	`pello`	`are you aware of a minimcom / cu n800 package?`
`20:50.55`	`milhouse`	`think i need to cancel my T3 sub an' all.`
`20:51.24`	`qgil`	`milhouse: this bloog entry is getting too gnomeish and the PS looks like totally out of context`
`20:51.33`	`qgil`	`milhouse: recommend me an itt thread and I'll post there`
`20:51.38`	`milhouse`	`how about having Carlos post a blog update?`
`20:51.53`	`milhouse`	`hang on, i'll go search - deffo one at least`
`20:52.02`	`qgil`	`convince Carlos that silence category 2 is not the best option ;)`
`20:52.33`	`milhouse`	`here you go: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8912&highlight=2007`
`20:52.44`	`milhouse`	`title: Is OS 2007 ever going to come? :)`
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`21:04.40`	`qgil`	`milhouse: and here you go: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8912&highlight=2007`
`21:05.19`	`milhouse`	`superb! :) that should stop the natives from getting restless for another few weeks :D`
`21:06.42`	`pupnik`	`aww man fantastic interview from Scott Horton with Ron Paul - http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2007/08/17/rep-ron-paul-3/`
`21:06.56`	`pupnik`	`oops`
`21:06.59`	`milhouse`	`nooo....politics!`
`21:07.21`	`pupnik`	`sorry wrong channel`
`21:07.24`	`qgil`	`milhouse: I tell you with confidence that I can't invest the time I invested in the Tablet Advocacy thread now again :)`
`21:07.47`	`milhouse`	`i can imagine :)`
`21:08.00`	`milhouse`	`maybe you need to hire someone for that role?`
`21:08.11`	`milhouse`	`or to be part of their role...`
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`21:08.29`	`milhouse`	`someone to deal with the plebs :)`
`21:09.14`	`qgil`	`I don't hire, but if anybody asks me I still tell that I prefer to hire people fix/improve/lead first - it is always easier and more grateful to provide explanations after that :)`
`21:10.43`	`milhouse`	`from your point of view, I can see why you'd say that. From my point of view, it's slightly different. :)`
`21:10.56`	`qgil`	`about dealing with the community, we are working on this but concentrating on the maemo.org channels`
`21:11.12`	`milhouse`	`fair enough.`
`21:11.25`	`qgil`	`some ITT people expects that Nokia employees should follow all the activity there and respond`
`21:11.45`	`qgil`	`well, I don't know many OSS projects where developers are expected to be responsive out of the channels of the project`
`21:11.48`	`milhouse`	`absolutely, it should be a part of your daily routine to read every post on ITT`
`21:11.52`	`milhouse`	`;)`
`21:12.08`	`milhouse`	`but it would be nice to see you there occasionaly`
`21:12.18`	`milhouse`	`:)`
`21:12.26`	`milhouse`	`i think igor drops by every now and again`
`21:12.37`	`milhouse`	`not sure who sd69 is... might be an nokian`
`21:12.41`	`milhouse`	`s/an/a/`
`21:12.51`	`qgil`	`I don 't track userid's either`
`21:13.41`	`qgil`	`as I see it a lot of the fuzz comes from a non-common understanding`
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`21:13.50`	`qgil`	`landing as a parachute in itt from time to time doesn't always help on this`
`21:14.12`	`qgil`	`and once you shoot then you have to continue`
`21:14.29`	`qgil`	`so really, I think it is good enough to be responsive always in the maemo lists, bugzilla, etc`
`21:14.49`	`qgil`	`and then there is some of you guys who are in both spaces`
`21:15.01`	`milhouse`	`i don't think anyone is expecting continuous dialog there, but the occassional note might help. at least keep an eye on it to guage reaction and feedback... it's probably good for that in some capacity`
`21:15.23`	`milhouse`	`for instance, the cheap 770s and the WSoD and lack of support from Nokia - that's bad.`
`21:15.44`	`milhouse`	`though i'm sure that's been noticed in the ofifical channels also`
`21:16.25`	`milhouse`	`where possible those of us who visit most of the official communication channels will feed back into ITT`
`21:18.07`	`qgil`	`milhouse: when talking about hardware "lack of support" is not a right expression: you use the Nokia customer channels for that`
`21:18.21`	`milhouse`	`Apparently Nokia are refusing responsibility`
`21:18.28`	`qgil`	`maemo is about software - I really have little to say and do about hardware even if I have a @nokia.com`
`21:18.31`	`milhouse`	`not honouring warranty etc.`
`21:19.18`	`milhouse`	`understood - but whether it's software or hardware, it reflects badly on nokia/maemo/etc.`
`21:19.51`	`qgil`	`"apparently", do you remember a thread? Nokia support follows the threads there`
`21:19.51`	`milhouse`	`anyway... not your area so i'll drop it :)`
`21:19.57`	`milhouse`	`there are sever on itt`
`21:20.02`	`milhouse`	`s/sever/several/`
`21:20.11`	`qgil`	`they are followed, reported internally, etc`
`21:20.38`	`milhouse`	`as a summary, anyone who bought one of the cheap 770s is being refused a warranty repair for the white screen of death`
`21:21.05`	`qgil`	`cheap/expensive doesn't mean anything: the warranty text is the same`
`21:21.08`	`milhouse`	`it seems that devices were cross shipped to another continent where the warranty is invalid (ie. UK bought devices have US warranties etc.)`
`21:21.15`	`milhouse`	`i'd have thought so too`
`21:21.20`	`milhouse`	`but apparently not`
`21:21.32`	`*** join/#maemo threeuNF (n=sedated@pool-72-64-219-13.tampfl.fios.verizon.net)`
`21:21.40`	`milhouse`	`let me find a not too long thread`
`21:22.55`	`pupnik`	`hey milhouse`
`21:22.56`	`_Monkey`	`milhouse is, like, the owner of _monkey`
`21:23.03`	`milhouse`	`maybe you can clarify something: Was the WSOD fault rectified on the production line, and does it only affect a range of devices? or is it inherent in every device ever produced?`
`21:23.11`	`pupnik`	`oh nevermind`
`21:23.48`	`qgil`	`milhouse: if you are talking to qgil, qgil can tell you that he has no clue about hardware, honestly`
`21:23.59`	`milhouse`	`ok :)`
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`21:25.45`	`*** join/#maemo eichi (n=eichi@62.224.95.25)`
`21:25.57`	`qgil`	`and qgil knows only a little about sales and guarantees, not specifically about Nokia but in general as a consumer`
`21:26.45`	`qgil`	`but if you buy legally a consumer electronics product the seller or distributors that sold it to you has to respond about the guarantee`
`21:27.09`	`*** join/#maemo rowdy_23 (n=gutember@201.79.167.250)`
`21:27.34`	`milhouse`	`you'd have thought so...`
`21:27.36`	`qgil`	`a different thing is if you buy the device in your trip to the US or wherever and then try to claim something to a reseller or whoever in a different country`
`21:28.42`	`milhouse`	`if i bought a Nokia device on a trip to the US, assuming the device is also sold in the UK I'd fully expect Nokia to repair it under warranty - wouldn't you?`
`21:28.51`	`*** join/#maemo MaemoUser (n=MaemoUse@189.25.90.145)`
`21:29.18`	`qgil`	`milhouse: depends on the guarantee text - I reckon I haven't read it.`
`21:29.19`	`milhouse`	`seemingly Nokia UK are looking up the MAC address and refusing the warranty because it was shipped for sale in the US, which is nuts.`
`21:29.27`	`milhouse`	`seems... unecessary.`
`21:29.53`	`MaemoUser`	`somebody knows if when i call gtk_widget_destroy the childs are destroyed too? for example a container`
`21:31.39`	`qgil`	`in any case if you as a consumer think this is unfair you can rant on ITT but, really, where you should go is to the institutional office (sorry, my English lacks some vocabulary) where you can claim your consumer rights`
`21:31.51`	`rowdy_23`	`anyone knows if can i mount a samba partition located in a remote computer from the n800?`
`21:31.55`	`qgil`	`I'm not saying this as a Nokia employee and I have no special interest defending Nokia sales here`
`21:32.09`	`qgil`	`I'm saying this just as a consumer`
`21:32.18`	`milhouse`	`yep, that's what i tend to recommend to people - consult their local trading standards and stand by your consumer rights`
`21:33.16`	`milhouse`	`it just seems unecessary - particularly as the WSoD is an all too common problem so I hope this doesn't continue for months to come. oh well.`
`21:33.18`	`*** join/#maemo threeish (i=sedated@pool-72-64-219-13.tampfl.fios.verizon.net)`
`21:34.48`	`qgil`	`oh well, a problem here is when we mix open source software practices with issues unrelated to the software itself: hardware, guarantees, etc`
`21:35.00`	`milhouse`	`i'll shut up about hardware. :)`
`21:35.14`	`milhouse`	`and guarantees/warranties :)`
`21:35.42`	`milhouse`	`it does come up a bit on itt so wondered if you had any inside info - if not, no worries.`
`21:35.49`	`qgil`	`then people expect that Nokia representatives (((I'm not talking about you))) will go to a web forum and answer to issues as if they were hackers`
`21:37.27`	`qgil`	`milhouse: Nokia people in charge of gathering user satisfactions and etc follow ITT as part as the scanning of web, media, etc`
`21:37.42`	`milhouse`	`that's good to know`
`21:37.54`	`qgil`	`I'd say all the relevant issues reach the internal target, specially those relating to hardware`
`21:37.58`	`milhouse`	`there's a lot of noise there, but also some useful grass roots activity/frustrations/happiness etc`
`21:38.20`	`qgil`	`milhouse: well, that's clear - no doubt about it :)`
`21:38.56`	`pupnik`	`why do people who like free operating systems not value freedom?`
`21:39.18`	`milhouse`	`wrong channel again? ;)`
`21:41.27`	`qgil`	`pupnik: freedom is one of the topics that got thinking more the phylosophers of all times - perhaps you want to develop a bit your toughts ;)`
`21:41.59`	`pupnik`	`qgil perhaps you can help me become more developed`
`21:42.20`	`qgil`	`pupnik: provide an example`
`21:42.48`	`qgil`	`pupnik: if only to help me become more developed`
`21:43.02`	`pupnik`	`habeus corpus`
`21:43.25`	`pupnik`	`torture`
`21:43.34`	`pupnik`	`do you like torture?`
`21:43.45`	`DaniloCesar`	`LOL!!!`
`21:44.02`	`pupnik`	`there are people who support torture`
`21:44.08`	`pupnik`	`in power`
`21:44.16`	`milhouse`	`you mean in the USA?`
`21:44.22`	`milhouse`	`land of the free?`
`21:44.25`	`pupnik`	`in the usa, germany, europe`
`21:44.32`	`qgil`	`pupnik: it's either habeas corpus or habemus papa`
`21:44.49`	`milhouse`	`i'd go with habeas corpus myself`
`21:45.53`	`pupnik`	`i will stop talking, but lets all support lawful government and freedom of speech`
`21:46.02`	`qgil`	`in fact only a subset of humans value freedom, and have a very different understanding between themselves about what freedom means`
`21:46.17`	`qgil`	`the rest of species seems to ignore freedom`
`21:47.14`	`qgil`	`some would say that "lawful" is uncompatible with "freedom" ;)`
`21:47.58`	`pupnik`	`depends on the country qgil`
`21:48.13`	`qgil`	`and the ideology`
`21:48.54`	`milhouse`	`soooo.... this n800 thing... is it any good?`
`21:49.01`	`qgil`	`but if you are talking about the US, a different system of elections and a less powerful president would definitely help`
`21:49.08`	`milhouse`	`Chads!!!`
`21:55.29`	`rowdy_23`	`anyone knows if i can mount a samba partition located in a remote computer from the n800?`
`21:57.06`	`milhouse`	`should be possible`
`21:57.10`	`milhouse`	`check fanoush's site`
`21:57.58`	`milhouse`	`http://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/#mmcplus`
`21:58.07`	`milhouse`	`there's a ZIP file with nfs, cifs etc.`
`21:58.32`	`rowdy_23`	`ok :D, thx for the tip...`
`21:59.02`	`milhouse`	`also search itt forums - it's been discussed several times`
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`22:02.14`	`amr`	`how come when i umount my mmc`
`22:02.18`	`amr`	`and then reinsert it`
`22:02.26`	`amr`	`i always get the message that it is corrupt`
`22:02.38`	`milhouse`	`every time?`
`22:02.51`	`amr`	`i dont think ive seen a time where it hasnt said that`
`22:02.54`	`amr`	`if i restart the device with it in its fine`
`22:03.05`	`milhouse`	`this is on a 770?`
`22:03.06`	`amr`	`and if i restart it without a card and then later insert it, its fine`
`22:03.07`	`amr`	`yes`
`22:03.11`	`*** join/#maemo threeuNF (i=sedated@pool-72-64-219-13.tampfl.fios.verizon.net)`
`22:03.48`	`qgil`	`finally, the blog entry I'm trying to write since... http://desdeamericaconamor.org/blog/node/387`
`22:04.12`	`qgil`	`opening #maemo is always risky when you want to be productive ;)`
`22:04.13`	`milhouse`	`yummie`
`22:04.34`	`amr`	`hm`
`22:04.42`	`qgil`	`that was just a joke, thanks milhouse and co for the (as usual) productive conversation`
`22:04.55`	`milhouse`	`my pleasure :)`
`22:05.17`	`amr`	`i cant get any files onto my mmc-mobile card either :-(`
`22:05.22`	`amr`	`the 770 can read/write it fine`
`22:05.38`	`amr`	`my usb access to mmc's is flakey at the best of times, regardless of os too`
`22:05.55`	`amr`	`i can read the files fine, but can only write about 8mb before it freezes up`
`22:06.09`	`milhouse`	`is the card any good?`
`22:06.20`	`qgil`	`milhouse: btw, question for you (no hurries) - how you feel about the new http://maemo.org/news/ ?`
`22:06.27`	`amr`	`how do you mean milhouse`
`22:06.31`	`amr`	`the mmc-mobile one?`
`22:06.51`	`*** join/#maemo juco2 (n=vickeryj@cpe-076-182-044-240.nc.res.rr.com)`
`22:06.54`	`amr`	`i have 2, both datawrite, one is rs-mmc the other is mmc-mobile`
`22:07.06`	`amr`	`the rs-mmc can be read in my card reader and im currently writing to it and its fine`
`22:07.18`	`amr`	`the mmc-mobile doesnt seem to be properly recognised at all by the reader`
`22:07.23`	`milhouse`	`qgil: looks a bit more stylish, main text font renders a little small in ff/xp`
`22:07.27`	`amr`	`i cant use usb to write to either card`
`22:07.42`	`milhouse`	`qgil: i certainly prefer the wider widht and without the hackergotchis`
`22:08.01`	`milhouse`	`qgil: and the consistent flow is better - the first article always looked a little odd`
`22:08.02`	`qgil`	`wait, the hackergotchis are still in the planet`
`22:08.09`	`milhouse`	`what am i looking at?`
`22:08.10`	`milhouse`	`oh hang on`
`22:08.20`	`milhouse`	`ah`
`22:08.22`	`milhouse`	`hmm...`
`22:08.25`	`amr`	`guess i might try back things up later and wipe all the cards and flash my 770`
`22:09.14`	`milhouse`	`qgil: the news page seems to be planet in a different format`
`22:09.20`	`milhouse`	`what's going on? confused :(`
`22:09.35`	`qgil`	`it's not, look the sources of the news there: it's a mixture`
`22:09.55`	`qgil`	`it is intended to be the single page you will need to follow to get a grasp of whatever is relevant`
`22:09.56`	`milhouse`	`yes, it's a superset - a lot of planet articles, plus others... is that wise?`
`22:10.04`	`milhouse`	`ok`
`22:10.07`	`qgil`	`now, please log`
`22:10.30`	`qgil`	`with your maemo account`
`22:10.48`	`milhouse`	`i saw the hearts thing... didn't vote for anything :)`
`22:11.03`	`milhouse`	`i did think - why hearts (a bit cheesy)... why not mini tablets?`
`22:11.16`	`qgil`	`whatever :)`
`22:12.05`	`qgil`	`it's not only the hearts what makes a news go up on the rank and/or stay in the highlights, it's a ombination of factors, including Technoraty reputation, people linking that article in del.icio.us...`
`22:12.06`	`milhouse`	`and when i'm not logged in, how do i see the votes? i don't see the hearts when i'm not logged in - should i?`
`22:12.13`	`*** join/#maemo pdz (n=paul@135.14.169.217.in-addr.arpa)`
`22:13.00`	`qgil`	`milhouse: it's a bug http://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1815`
`22:13.03`	`milhouse`	`i think someone has already opened a bugzilla entry for the workflow following a vote - i agree with that, it just leaves you on a page with a text box which is wierd.`
`22:13.20`	`milhouse`	`aha, good :)`
`22:13.26`	`milhouse`	`(good that it has a bug entry)`
`22:13.27`	`qgil`	`anonymous users will see hearts everywhere once this is fixed and once we have adapted the maemo.org home to these news`
`22:13.52`	`qgil`	`milhouse: yeah, that workflow has another bug submitted`
`22:14.04`	`qgil`	`this is what betas are good for :)`
`22:14.07`	`milhouse`	`i need to visit news more often :)`
`22:14.15`	`milhouse`	`i tend to hit planet by default (bookmark)`
`22:14.41`	`qgil`	`I'm following it regularly and, as usual, I'm processing a lot of web new pages with "maemo" in it`
`22:14.53`	`qgil`	`I'm surprised how clever the algorythm is when "editing"`
`22:14.57`	`milhouse`	`i like the bugzilla changes - fine with that. i also saw the bug complaining about midgard and wiki - i agree the midgard "wiki" is primitive... should have diffs at least`
`22:15.13`	`qgil`	`even when people doesn't fave much as it's happening now`
`22:15.53`	`qgil`	`bugzilla changes, i'd like to see them applied in few weeks (and I can talk about deadlines about this) ;)`
`22:16.06`	`qgil`	`the wiki, yes it's my next battle`
`22:16.56`	`milhouse`	`the only thing i'd say about the fixed width - while i understand why it's there, i think it's going to constrain some content (ie. wide tables, long lines of code etc.) which is a shame`
`22:17.26`	`milhouse`	`any tables with more than half a dozen columns break out of the fixed width :(`
`22:18.25`	`qgil`	`milhouse: I'm open to discussion as soon as real problems appear`
`22:18.25`	`qgil`	`bugzilla went flexible, other components can go flexible as well if needed`
`22:19.15`	`milhouse`	`bug 1392`
`22:19.16`	`_Monkey`	`Bug 1392 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1392`
`22:19.47`	`milhouse`	`oh great... the BluetoothDUN page has gone :(`
`22:20.14`	`milhouse`	`that page had a table that was all over the place! :)`
`22:20.36`	`milhouse`	`and had some useful info (what phones were known to work or had problems with tablets).`
`22:21.49`	`qgil`	`milhouse: it's not gone, the content is there but the moin tablet format is not recognized`
`22:22.09`	`qgil`	`need manual fixing (too late for me to go through this today)`
`22:22.59`	`qgil`	`let me 2 minutes to see thie BTdun page...`
`22:23.47`	`milhouse`	`odd, it used to be visible - maybe an update supressed it.`
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`22:28.54`	`milhouse`	`so markdown doesn't support tables? you have to use html instead? bummer.`
`22:32.42`	`milhouse`	`...and midgard preview is soooo slow`
`22:41.42`	`qgil`	`http://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1392 updated`
`22:42.14`	`qgil`	`milhouse: on the other hand is usual to get complains about the limitations of creating tables in wikis, in this case if you know html there are no limitations`
`22:42.39`	`qgil`	`in fact midgard wiki can digest most HTML (because in its origin it's not a wiki)`
`22:43.31`	`qgil`	`the midgard wiki needs fixing, I agreed with henri a list of changes but they are not done`
`22:43.48`	`milhouse`	`yeah... i'm just trying to convert that wiki table to html table - nightmare :)`
`22:43.51`	`qgil`	`next week I will convert this list in public bugs so it's clear what is to be expected from the wiki`
`22:44.06`	`milhouse`	`i'll try and update the bluetoothdun page using an html table tonight`
`22:44.08`	`qgil`	`milhouse: that one is nightmare yes`
`22:44.14`	`qgil`	`thanks`
`22:44.27`	`milhouse`	`will keep the same columns for now, but at least get it to display`
`22:44.59`	`qgil`	`time for me to zzzzzzz`
`22:45.26`	`milhouse`	`one advantage the wiki notation has over html is that it's easier to edit... this html could get messy :)`
`22:45.36`	`milhouse`	`g'night - and thanks again`
`22:46.20`	`qgil`	`thanks to you again :)`
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`23:13.39`	`red-zack`	`question: is it possible to watch youtube or other flashplayer related things on 770? how to install flashplayer? does a portable version exist?`
`23:14.07`	`red-zack`	`btw, hi all, good evening/night`
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`23:47.37`	`Luria`	`hmmm`
`23:47.46`	`Luria`	`so im thinking about a 770 for my mom`
`23:48.00`	`Luria`	`anyone tried such an experiment?`
`23:48.12`	`erstazi`	`Luria, my mother has used mine before`
`23:48.35`	`erstazi`	`Luria, just show her the basics, how to connect with wifi and where the browser is and a few other apps that might interest her, I did the same for my father`
`23:48.54`	`Luria`	`and your mom isnt grace hopper, right?`
`23:48.57`	`Luria`	`i see`
`23:49.06`	`Luria`	`and do they use it?`
`23:49.39`	`sully`	`Oh dear. I was going to get my parents one and... no. Bad idea.`
`23:49.55`	`erstazi`	`my mother dislikes computers, I have to guide her how to copy and paste a URL into an email and how to send the email`
`23:50.06`	`Luria`	`oh my mom is ok on firefox`
`23:50.08`	`erstazi`	`Luria, they used mine for an hour`
`23:50.16`	`Luria`	`but not much more`
`23:50.35`	`erstazi`	`Luria, the key of success is if they want to learn... anyone can desire but if they want to learn then its different`
`23:50.51`	`Luria`	`i guess you are right about that`
`23:51.24`	`Luria`	`sully, what happened with you?`
`23:51.38`	`sully`	`I remembered my mother can't yet handle a mouse`
`23:51.46`	`Luria`	`oh`
`23:51.53`	`Luria`	`not the case here.`
`23:52.08`	`erstazi`	`sully, technically, no one needs a mouse, except for gaming`
`23:52.12`	`erstazi`	`some games`
`23:52.15`	`Luria`	`my mother is travelling more these days, so was asking about portable email devices`
`23:52.31`	`erstazi`	`Luria, honestly, the deals they have on the 770 are great for her`
`23:52.32`	`sully`	`No need to tell me, I used to do CAD without a mouse in the 90s`
`23:52.34`	`erstazi`	`and she can always learn`
`23:52.54`	`sully`	`I used a HTC TyTn and was pretty impressed with it`
`23:52.59`	`erstazi`	`sully, I am a web developer and thats our main focus is mouse-less user-friendly apps`
`23:53.00`	`Luria`	`blackberry, treo, etc... but she doesnt really want to check it on the bus - she wans a computer in miami or st. louis or whereever`
`23:53.29`	`sully`	`http://www.europe.htc.com/products/htctytn.html`
`23:53.29`	`erstazi`	`Luria, I would let her try it, $130 + free shipping at buy.com is not bad`
`23:53.43`	`sully`	`Touchscreen, QWERTY keyboard, Windows Mobile`
`23:53.50`	`Luria`	`yeah. i have a shopping cart ready to go :-)`
`23:54.11`	`Luria`	`i like the htcs, but they are pricey and so is the service`
`23:54.28`	`sully`	`hmm, I suppose`
`23:54.45`	`Luria`	`whats the current stability of the 770?`
`23:54.54`	`sully`	`IT 2006 is pretty good`
`23:55.03`	`Luria`	`and 2007he?`
`23:55.08`	`erstazi`	`Luria, I use 770/OS2006`
`23:55.13`	`sully`	`Haven't tried. I guess you could set that up for her`
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`23:55.27`	`sully`	`You definitely want to do the boot from MMC and kernel hack to speed it up`
`23:55.33`	`erstazi`	`I am more the type to use a stable version before going with OS2007HE`
`23:55.34`	`sully`	`Very annoyingly slow before that`
`23:55.42`	`Luria`	`well, i, like most of you, are tech support :-)`
`23:55.52`	`erstazi`	`of course`
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`23:56.13`	`Luria`	`i put in wall cat-5 wiring down 8 years ago :-)`
`23:57.19`	`sully`	`If I ever buy in this ridiculously expensive city, it will be phone/coax/ethernet to all rooms`
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`23:58.40`	`Luria`	`yeah, i have rj-11/rj-45 panels in most rooms, terminating at a hub 5 feet from the multi room stereo`
`23:59.09`	`sully`	`Been wondering how I could embed a touchscreen PC in the wall of each room`
`23:59.10`	`Luria`	`line -> dsl patch(and split off) ->pbx`
`23:59.53`	`Luria`	`cool little system... i have one of these (now) ancient panasonic digital/analog hybrid pbxs`
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