| 00:00.30 | samiam010203 | anyone know what repos i should add |
| 00:01.41 | konttori | I hate it when that happens. |
| 00:02.00 | samiam010203 | yes it sucks :( |
| 00:02.01 | konttori | people should always include all dependencies in their repos |
| 00:02.18 | samiam010203 | thats what i think too |
| 00:02.35 | konttori | take your pick from here: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/applicationrepositories/ |
| 00:02.51 | konttori | I would suspect http://repository.maemo.org/ |
| 00:02.52 | samiam010203 | thanks for the link |
| 00:02.56 | konttori | bora |
| 00:03.06 | konttori | free non-free extras |
| 00:03.15 | konttori | that might be the case. |
| 00:03.17 | samiam010203 | cool |
| 00:03.22 | samiam010203 | ill look into it now |
| 00:03.24 | samiam010203 | brb |
| 00:03.26 | konttori | Up.s the address was: http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ |
| 00:13.57 | samiam010203 | i need hildon-fm1, hildon-libs0, and libosso1 packages |
| 00:14.05 | samiam010203 | i cant seem to find them |
| 00:25.58 | samiam010203 | thanks guys/gals , i succesfully got it installed :) |
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| 01:12.40 | trevarthan | I just got a thinkoutside/igo kb. |
| 01:13.15 | trevarthan | The FN key doesnt work and the SHIFT key doesnt work. how do I fix that? |
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| 02:43.39 | kakos | Is there a word processor for the N800? |
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| 02:57.19 | Brenduh | I figure ya'll bought rs mmc cards. I was wondering if you know where the cheapest place is to buy them. |
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| 03:05.56 | outtolunc | i seen 1gb ones for like $19ish earlier.... http://www.flash-memory-store.com/1gb-multimedia.html |
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| 03:07.52 | outtolunc | anyone know what the proper svn url/branch is for the maemo 2.2 (770 stuff) |
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| 04:57.17 | tko | outtolunc: theoretically https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/maemo-branches/IT-2006/ but we didn't really enforce it properly due to lack of interest |
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| 05:08.28 | outtolunc | thanks |
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| 05:14.44 | unique311 | hello all |
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| 05:15.06 | unique311 | https://garage.maemo.org/ |
| 05:15.22 | unique311 | pupnik POSE most active this week. WOW |
| 05:17.41 | unique311 | can't seem to get mh-shot-tool to authenticate when it comes time to upload to flickr. |
| 05:17.47 | unique311 | anyone having this issue? |
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| 07:47.41 | mk8 | Hi to all ..... |
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| 08:35.08 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
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| 08:37.24 | pupnik_ | unique311: pretty funny re: pose active. I just updated the progress status on some of the TODO list. |
| 08:37.48 | pupnik_ | guten morgen! |
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| 08:44.22 | unique311 | doing alot of research on this thing... |
| 08:45.03 | unique311 | if i can find the older sources codes.....3.0 3.1 and 3.2 could make some more magice happen |
| 08:46.05 | unique311 | i found 3.0 on Koders.com, but like i stated on my ITT post. have to DL every single file individually. |
| 08:46.24 | unique311 | make some magic happen pupnik. |
| 08:47.08 | unique311 | also. i just uploaded a new project....quicksynergy...GUI for synergy....works nicely... |
| 08:47.23 | unique311 | its in the garage |
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| 08:51.17 | pupnik_ | what magic needed unique311 ? |
| 08:52.13 | unique311 | the keyboard you spoke of on ITT |
| 08:52.23 | unique311 | skin version of it. |
| 08:52.49 | unique311 | figure if i compile psoe 3.0 and am able to use the handpsring treo 90 rom. |
| 08:52.52 | pupnik | oh. do you like the idea of putting the keys on either side of the display? or do you think that would suck too much? |
| 08:52.56 | unique311 | all i have to do is modify the skin... |
| 08:53.10 | unique311 | it would be coold.. |
| 08:53.12 | unique311 | cool |
| 08:53.12 | pupnik | yeah i'd figure that |
| 08:53.42 | unique311 | but you have to understand the roms being used now m130 and m505 don't support keyboard in the rom.. |
| 08:53.51 | unique311 | treo 90 does |
| 08:53.51 | pupnik | i'm wondering if maybe we could make a skin with keys that would work with roms for any PALM? |
| 08:53.57 | unique311 | no |
| 08:54.04 | pupnik | :( |
| 08:54.21 | unique311 | reason being everything is in the rom.. |
| 08:54.41 | unique311 | if you can extract the rom and hack the hell out of it..then maybe.. |
| 08:55.01 | pupnik | but you can type in any rom with bluetooth keyboard, i think |
| 08:55.54 | pupnik | so i'm wondering if pose on-screen keys go through the x keyboard input |
| 08:55.57 | unique311 | you can, you can also use synergy to to type. |
| 08:56.16 | pupnik | i suppose i'd need to look at the source |
| 08:56.27 | unique311 | you can probably modify the source for the 3.5 emu and get it to support the treo90 |
| 08:56.41 | unique311 | but i think thats going to be alot of work. |
| 08:56.54 | pupnik | did you have any luck getting the .deb to work? |
| 08:57.01 | unique311 | yeah |
| 08:57.18 | unique311 | not sure if its the user/extras that fixed it. |
| 08:57.40 | unique311 | or removing the com.nokia.pose.service file. |
| 08:57.43 | pupnik | ok good deal. so i can youse your debian package config if i need to compile POSE for myself |
| 08:57.51 | pupnik | s/youse/use |
| 08:58.05 | unique311 | yes |
| 08:58.40 | unique311 | you want the source code i modified? |
| 08:59.32 | pupnik | yeah that would be good. |
| 08:59.43 | unique311 | k going to upload now.. |
| 08:59.53 | unique311 | it will include fltk and pose. |
| 09:00.04 | unique311 | both are source files from debian |
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| 09:02.42 | unique311 | might just write the admin at koders and see if he can just send me the source folder for 3.0 |
| 09:02.55 | unique311 | http://www.divshare.com/download/1079353-e8a |
| 09:03.12 | unique311 | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^pupnik^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ |
| 09:04.32 | unique311 | pupnik when you have a chance check this link out...on how to have the keyboard pop up.... |
| 09:04.35 | unique311 | https://garage.maemo.org/snippet/browse.php?by=lang&lang=2 |
| 09:10.23 | pupnik | thanks |
| 09:10.39 | pupnik | file is passwd protected? |
| 09:11.01 | unique311 | huh |
| 09:11.03 | unique311 | oh |
| 09:11.06 | pupnik | i can't download it from divshare |
| 09:11.10 | unique311 | lol |
| 09:11.12 | unique311 | its pose |
| 09:11.15 | unique311 | i think |
| 09:11.43 | pupnik | ok that worked |
| 09:12.41 | pupnik | oh that snippets page is great |
| 09:12.49 | pupnik | i had forgotten about it |
| 09:13.26 | unique311 | what about if you modify fltk source to pop up the hildon keyboard.. |
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| 09:13.48 | unique311 | i don't think you have to modify the pose source |
| 09:13.51 | lardman | I see someone's removed the DSP info bit from the wish list. Any ideas whether this was on purpose (i.e. is it just a prompt for me to add some additional information in a wiki page for it)? |
| 09:13.55 | unique311 | pose already has a keyboard.. |
| 09:14.28 | unique311 | whenever a keyboard is needed, its from the right click menu, and thats fltk isn't? |
| 09:14.53 | pupnik | i don't know |
| 09:15.13 | pupnik | watchu talkin' bout lardman? |
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| 09:17.22 | sbaturzio | Aloha! |
| 09:17.23 | pupnik | And why should Caesar be a tyrant then? // Poor man! I know he would not be a wolf, // But that he sees the Romans are but sheep: |
| 09:17.26 | pupnik | - Shakespeare, 'Julius Ceasar' |
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| 09:24.27 | lardman | pupnik: On the roadmap page there used to be an entry in the wishlist saying that we'd like some 'hello world' style source code for the DSP |
| 09:24.48 | lardman | But after re-reading the pade, I suppose I need to "Propose a new feature", which is fair enough |
| 09:24.55 | lardman | s/pade/page |
| 09:25.11 | unique311 | pupnik here it is..it can be done... |
| 09:25.16 | unique311 | http://seriss.com/people/erco/fltk/ |
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| 09:25.59 | unique311 | check out this link http://seriss.com/people/erco/fltk/#TouchScreenNumPad |
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| 09:26.16 | unique311 | shows how to make a pop-up numeric pad for fltk |
| 09:27.26 | unique311 | the only reason for needed a pop up keyboard would be to write when you have to save open, etc. |
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| 09:29.01 | AD-N770 | good morning |
| 09:29.34 | pupnik | k i havta go buy more ramen |
| 09:29.58 | kulve | MoRpHeUz: should that gmyth-ls work? |
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| 10:05.22 | MoRpHeUz | kulve: yeah |
| 10:05.41 | MoRpHeUz | gmyth-ls -h IP -p 6543 -u mythtv -w mythtv |
| 10:05.56 | MoRpHeUz | (if database's passwd and user are mythtv) |
| 10:06.39 | kulve | ** (gmyth-ls:30366): WARNING **: Could not connect to backend db |
| 10:06.46 | kulve | it doesn't even send anything over tcp |
| 10:07.21 | kulve | I have compiled it in a different prefix but I think gst and gnomevfs finds the new modules because of the env variables I've set |
| 10:07.35 | MoRpHeUz | kulve: hhmm |
| 10:07.47 | MoRpHeUz | kulve: try: |
| 10:07.52 | MoRpHeUz | strace gmyth-ls .... |
| 10:08.01 | MoRpHeUz | and see what strace shows you at the end... |
| 10:08.13 | MoRpHeUz | kulve: maybe I know what is wrong =) |
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| 10:08.53 | kulve | how end..? |
| 10:08.59 | kulve | connect(3, {sa_family=AF_INET, sin_port=htons(3306), sin_addr=inet_addr("192.168.3.11")}, 16) = -1 EINPROGRESS (Operation now in progress) |
| 10:09.13 | MoRpHeUz | stops at that ? |
| 10:09.17 | kulve | read(3, "K\0\0\2\377\25\4#28000Access denied for u"..., 16384) = 79 |
| 10:09.25 | MoRpHeUz | hhmm =) |
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| 10:09.32 | MoRpHeUz | try: |
| 10:09.41 | MoRpHeUz | mysql -h IP -umythtv -pmythtv |
| 10:09.56 | kulve | Argument invalid. Type --help |
| 10:10.51 | MoRpHeUz | ?? |
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| 10:11.11 | MoRpHeUz | mysql -h 192.168.3.11 -u mythtv -pmythtv (try this) |
| 10:12.41 | kulve | oh, mysql.. |
| 10:13.10 | MoRpHeUz | =) |
| 10:13.15 | kulve | don't have that.. |
| 10:14.32 | MoRpHeUz | ok....I think I know what is your problem... |
| 10:14.41 | MoRpHeUz | try downloading (and installing) this: http://downloads.sourceforge.net/gmyth/libmysqlclient15_5.0.27_i386.deb?modtime=1179168457&big_mirror=0 |
| 10:15.18 | kulve | I do have libmysqlclient15-dev.. |
| 10:15.21 | kulve | what's that on your link+ |
| 10:15.22 | kulve | ? |
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| 10:15.59 | MoRpHeUz | it's not the dev one |
| 10:16.08 | MoRpHeUz | kulve: it's the package itself |
| 10:16.18 | MoRpHeUz | (there are this one and the dev one) |
| 10:16.44 | kulve | ii libmysqlclient15off 5.0.32-7etch1 mysql database client library |
| 10:16.51 | kulve | I did have that one |
| 10:17.02 | kulve | now I do have the mysql -command line client too.. |
| 10:18.17 | kulve | hmm.. |
| 10:18.40 | kulve | I think I've just listened the wrong port with my tcpdump.. |
| 10:19.47 | MoRpHeUz | hhmm hehe |
| 10:19.55 | kulve | what's the --port for..? |
| 10:20.08 | MoRpHeUz | kulve: try also gmyth-cat...it should work as well... |
| 10:20.16 | MoRpHeUz | mythbacken's port |
| 10:20.17 | kulve | doesn't work with out it, but doesn't matter what I put to it (the port) |
| 10:21.04 | MoRpHeUz | gmyth-cat -h IP -p 6543 -u mythtv -c CHANNEL_NUMBER > file.mpg |
| 10:21.10 | MoRpHeUz | kulve: maybe the guy that coded gmyth-ls made a mistake with this parameter...I can check it latter...(I have always used with the port) |
| 10:21.43 | kulve | "-p 1" works just fine ;) |
| 10:21.56 | kulve | "invalid argument" if I skip the parameter |
| 10:22.21 | MoRpHeUz | kulve: ok..I'll correct that as soon as I finish the bug I'm working on! thanks... |
| 10:23.29 | kulve | hmm.. the cat doesn't accept -w and -u ? (at least not according to the --help) |
| 10:24.16 | MoRpHeUz | kulve: no...it just needs the user name |
| 10:24.21 | MoRpHeUz | ( -u ) |
| 10:24.35 | MoRpHeUz | ow |
| 10:24.37 | MoRpHeUz | my fault |
| 10:24.44 | MoRpHeUz | it doesnt need even the username hehe |
| 10:25.01 | MoRpHeUz | (according to --help) |
| 10:25.15 | kulve | -f should give a file that's recorded earlier? and -c would start recording? |
| 10:25.40 | *** part/#maemo tfheen (n=tfheen@aine.err.no) |
| 10:26.32 | MoRpHeUz | kulve: nops... |
| 10:26.47 | MoRpHeUz | -c would start live tv |
| 10:27.11 | MoRpHeUz | (then you redirect it's output ">" to a file or even pipe to a player) |
| 10:27.31 | MoRpHeUz | kulve: btw, just tested and gmyth-ls needs backend's port, otherwise it doesnt work |
| 10:28.01 | kulve | ./bin/gmyth-cat -h 192.168.3.11 -p 6543 -c 65 > /tmp/foo.mpg |
| 10:28.02 | kulve | (gmyth-cat:32446): GLib-CRITICAL **: g_io_channel_write_chars: assertion `channel != NULL' failed |
| 10:28.06 | kulve | (gmyth-cat:32446): GLib-CRITICAL **: g_io_channel_flush: assertion `channel != NULL' failed |
| 10:28.10 | kulve | Segmentation fault |
| 10:28.53 | kulve | hmm.. "-f filename" started to print lot's of numbers.. |
| 10:29.13 | MoRpHeUz | kulve: if the numbers were increasing it was right |
| 10:29.22 | kulve | they do |
| 10:29.36 | MoRpHeUz | ok...try to play /tmp/foo.mpg with mplayer for instance... |
| 10:29.44 | MoRpHeUz | (need to CTRL+C to stop) |
| 10:29.52 | kulve | 499968000 |
| 10:30.11 | kulve | I'm not able to use any graphical stuff now. I test that from home |
| 10:30.17 | MoRpHeUz | (dont worry because once we assure all of them are working, gmyth-streamer will do all of these steps automatically for you) |
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| 10:30.31 | kulve | it seems that it's mostly working now.. |
| 10:30.35 | kulve | at least those two things |
| 10:30.38 | MoRpHeUz | just try then: du -sh /tmp/foo.mpg and see if the file has some "size" |
| 10:30.49 | MoRpHeUz | kulve: so gmyth-ls worked ? |
| 10:30.52 | kulve | 478M /tmp/foo.mpg |
| 10:30.59 | kulve | yeah, the ls gives all my channels |
| 10:31.13 | zuh | kulve: You can just run mplayer foo.mpeg and see if the numbers run like they are supposed to... |
| 10:31.33 | kulve | zuh: excellent :) |
| 10:31.36 | kulve | (and they are) |
| 10:31.56 | MoRpHeUz | kulve: great! it seems to work =) |
| 10:32.27 | MoRpHeUz | now you just have to start gmyth-streamer and you should have remote stream with live transcoding =) |
| 10:32.43 | kulve | it's still a bit unclear to me how to use the mplayer on the device.. |
| 10:32.52 | MoRpHeUz | (if you have port 40000 opened on your firewall, you can even try that from wherever you are) |
| 10:33.03 | zuh | kulve: next time, put the N800 in front of a mirror with the camera out and stream the feed ;) |
| 10:33.19 | MoRpHeUz | haha |
| 10:33.20 | MoRpHeUz | =) |
| 10:33.49 | MoRpHeUz | kulve: gmyth-streamer will stream the video over http, and you will use mplayer to "play an url"... ;-) |
| 10:34.07 | MoRpHeUz | kulve: this is why I said that you should not worry as gmyth-streamer would do all this stuff for you =) |
| 10:34.25 | kulve | MoRpHeUz: can I choose the codecs it uses? |
| 10:34.46 | MoRpHeUz | kulve: yeah... |
| 10:34.59 | MoRpHeUz | kulve: but I just can assure that the default one works =) hehe |
| 10:35.04 | MoRpHeUz | (and some other combinations) |
| 10:35.18 | MoRpHeUz | but inside n800 I'm 100% sure that the default options work |
| 10:36.05 | kulve | I'll try to find some time to test those out |
| 10:36.05 | kulve | thx |
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| 10:37.56 | MoRpHeUz | kulve: it's me who has to say thanks =) (btw, thanks hehe) |
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| 11:01.20 | unique311 | http://www.flickr.com/photos/unique0nez/ |
| 11:01.30 | unique311 | new screenshots...of The POSE |
| 11:02.06 | pupnik | :) |
| 11:02.20 | pupnik | http://smarterits.com/~brandon/RonPaulLolz.gif |
| 11:03.50 | *** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com) |
| 11:03.53 | pupnik | you pull that keyboard up with right click? |
| 11:04.45 | *** join/#maemo pcfe (n=pcfe@a88-114-153-134.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 11:05.13 | inz | uniq, you got mh-shot-tool working? |
| 11:06.48 | *** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com) |
| 11:10.17 | MoRpHeUz | good work..nice pics |
| 11:10.21 | unique311 | no |
| 11:10.38 | unique311 | keyboard is within the emu |
| 11:11.11 | pupnik | ok so it comes up when you start that notepad thing |
| 11:11.25 | unique311 | yes |
| 11:11.44 | unique311 | it doesn't come up.. |
| 11:11.48 | unique311 | you have to call it up.. |
| 11:11.54 | pupnik | ok i understand |
| 11:11.59 | unique311 | the graffiti area has the abc |
| 11:12.14 | unique311 | thats why i modified the skin again so people would be able to see it. |
| 11:12.52 | unique311 | yes mh-shot-tool is working inz |
| 11:13.42 | roope | I hate it when I try to install an app (like urhos media app) and it just says "Operation failed". Thanks a lot for the verbose information. |
| 11:16.06 | unique311 | pupnik im not too sure about this ron paul character.. |
| 11:16.24 | unique311 | he talks a good games...but at the end of the day he is still a republican.... |
| 11:16.37 | inz | uniq, cool, do you have any idea why it wasn't working? |
| 11:17.11 | unique311 | multiple browser windows being open... |
| 11:17.26 | unique311 | i left a comment on the website.. |
| 11:17.48 | unique311 | something about flickr not being able to authenticate "frob" |
| 11:20.15 | suihkulokki | roope: you know who defines the error messages :) |
| 11:30.22 | *** join/#maemo konttori (n=konttori@a88-114-91-19.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 11:30.46 | konttori | roope: i hate that too |
| 11:30.50 | *** join/#maemo obi (n=obi@unaffiliated/obi) |
| 11:31.19 | konttori | There should be a log window in the installer. |
| 11:33.49 | inz | there is |
| 11:36.37 | unique311 | I want The Enlightenment, who do i speak to.... |
| 11:37.26 | konttori | inz: great. |
| 11:38.34 | *** join/#maemo mazzen (n=Markus@89.245.130.108) |
| 11:41.46 | MoRpHeUz | unique311: k-s =) |
| 11:44.01 | unique311 | hmmm i don't understand.... |
| 11:44.01 | unique311 | looks like random keypresses to me.. |
| 11:44.21 | unique311 | explain yourself MoRpHeUz |
| 11:44.53 | MoRpHeUz | unique311: a guy called k-s is porting evas to the device... |
| 11:44.54 | MoRpHeUz | =) |
| 11:45.11 | MoRpHeUz | if you want enlightment on it, ask him =) |
| 11:45.19 | unique311 | ok |
| 11:45.33 | MoRpHeUz | unique311: it's k-s =) take a look at his blog |
| 11:45.38 | unique311 | is k-s rasterman |
| 11:45.51 | unique311 | http://www.rasterman.com/ |
| 11:45.58 | *** join/#maemo hendryx (n=hendryx@194.216.112.207) |
| 11:46.04 | MoRpHeUz | no...rasterman is helping |
| 11:46.12 | *** part/#maemo hendryx (n=hendryx@194.216.112.207) |
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| 11:46.27 | MoRpHeUz | unique311: k-s: http://blog.gustavobarbieri.com.br/ |
| 11:46.57 | unique311 | so theirs 2 individuals working on it... |
| 11:46.58 | unique311 | ok |
| 11:47.16 | MoRpHeUz | =) |
| 11:47.31 | MoRpHeUz | unique311: take a look at the videos... =) |
| 11:47.44 | unique311 | i did... |
| 11:47.50 | unique311 | i saw all of ths on maemo.org |
| 11:48.05 | MoRpHeUz | =) |
| 11:48.10 | unique311 | but on the other hand..i'm also seeing that on rasterman.com he is porting it. |
| 11:48.16 | unique311 | or has it running on the n800 |
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| 11:48.54 | MoRpHeUz | yeah...they are working together |
| 11:48.58 | unique311 | ok |
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| 12:01.14 | *** join/#maemo booiiing (i=[booiiin@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x32459B0C) |
| 12:13.16 | konttori | UKTUBE 0.3 out now: https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/1667/UKMP-1.3-uktube0.3.deb |
| 12:14.03 | konttori | Cool new features are: Faster download, less stalling. Cropped 16:9 mode for those videos with black borders and a do-not-save mode. |
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| 12:41.46 | roope | konttori: any ideas why it would give that error when i try to install the ukmp 1.3? I have python 2.5 already installed. |
| 12:42.09 | roope | Clicking the link from the maemo.org downloads page. |
| 12:42.26 | konttori | Does the error happen immediately? |
| 12:42.35 | roope | Yeah. Before any progress banners. |
| 12:43.00 | konttori | sounds like it's missing some pre-dependency. |
| 12:43.20 | konttori | sounds odd, as I haven't heard such problems from anyone else |
| 12:43.44 | konttori | otoh: not everyone has the time to report errors |
| 12:43.59 | suihkulokki | roope: use xterm and install it as root with dpkg -i |
| 12:44.57 | konttori | roope: can you open the log file? |
| 12:45.14 | konttori | Application manager menu / tools/Log |
| 12:45.24 | konttori | Maybe it tells something that makes sense |
| 12:45.40 | unique311 | http://shop.01media.com/info.asp?ProductID=16517 |
| 12:45.54 | unique311 | some serious hardware mod..and this could be a beautiful thing.. |
| 12:47.13 | konttori | roope: have you been able to install previous versions? |
| 12:47.48 | roope | yes, 1.0 at least was ok. |
| 12:47.54 | roope | let's check the log. |
| 12:48.02 | unique311 | http://www.ic2005.com/shop/product.php?productid=30&cat=0&page=1 |
| 12:48.39 | gwak | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:48.51 | roope | that's weird. nothing comes to log. |
| 12:49.11 | konttori | Odd? Really nothing? |
| 12:49.19 | roope | yeah. "operation failed" immediately. |
| 12:49.21 | unique311 | 4 in 1 |
| 12:49.34 | roope | perhaps this needs a reboot, like windows. ;) |
| 12:49.36 | konttori | Does it even start with the lien: osso-application-installer 4.46 UI version 2? |
| 12:49.43 | roope | yes. but nothing more. |
| 12:49.43 | unique311 | means i can use all the different cards i have laying around. |
| 12:49.47 | konttori | Yeah, might be that the system is jammed. |
| 12:50.20 | konttori | Hmm... next line should be /usr/bin/dpkg-deb -f '/media/mmc1/UKMP1.3.deb' |
| 12:50.26 | unique311 | qwak do you own one of thos |
| 12:50.28 | konttori | or something quite similar |
| 12:50.28 | unique311 | e |
| 12:51.07 | `0660 | does anyone have any guess of the new firmware release date? :) |
| 12:54.50 | konttori | hey roope: try out the uktube version when you have rebooted: http://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/1667/UKMP-1.3-uktube0.3.deb |
| 12:54.59 | roope | what's the difference. |
| 12:55.13 | konttori | It has the wickedly cool uktube bundled in. |
| 12:55.21 | roope | what is uktube? |
| 12:55.24 | konttori | OTOH, it needs mplayer to play the videos. |
| 12:55.32 | konttori | It plays youtube videos in full fps in fullscreen |
| 12:55.39 | roope | oh. |
| 12:55.49 | konttori | have a look at this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy-SGsItwPA&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fkonttoristhoughts%2Eblogspot%2Ecom%2F |
| 12:56.12 | konttori | that is from the initial version. the current one is 0.3 and is already much better. |
| 12:56.23 | pupnik | konttori: that will work in IT2007 on 770? |
| 12:56.27 | konttori | yeah |
| 12:56.41 | konttori | and it2006 as well |
| 12:56.58 | roope | it's a big-ass table. |
| 12:57.49 | konttori | roope: You can install mplayer from http://downloads.maemo.org/product/mplayer |
| 12:59.21 | jani | that uktube video reminds of one question that i was thinking few weeks ago.. |
| 12:59.37 | jani | does google provide api for youtube? |
| 13:00.21 | *** join/#maemo PierreTramo (n=gcarrier@cl-190.bru-01.be.sixxs.net) |
| 13:00.35 | PierreTramo | is the sourcecode of flasher available? |
| 13:00.45 | konttori | jani: as in, being able to access google videos from youtube? |
| 13:00.48 | PierreTramo | i guess it's not :) |
| 13:00.57 | konttori | oh, you mean like for rss feeds? |
| 13:01.10 | konttori | Yeah, they have api |
| 13:01.31 | konttori | http://www.youtube.com/dev |
| 13:01.41 | robtaylor | konttori: what's that video you're watching in the clip? |
| 13:01.53 | konttori | it's a windows table parody |
| 13:02.28 | konttori | roope: did the reboot help at all? |
| 13:03.02 | konttori | robtaylor: this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZrr7AZ9nCY |
| 13:03.33 | jani | ok. |
| 13:04.01 | konttori | jani: did you have thoughts about making some youtube app? |
| 13:04.21 | jani | the idea i was thinking that it would be somewhat good idea to make a similar application to joost that uses youtube as video storage .. |
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| 13:05.37 | konttori | jani: you mean like that it's playing youtube clips continuously? |
| 13:05.43 | konttori | Sounds like a nice idea? |
| 13:06.04 | pupnik | i prefer to click to start |
| 13:06.18 | jani | yes, something like that.. .first one would pick a topic or a keyword and then it would stream the stuff .. |
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| 13:07.45 | roope | konttori: no, still the same error. :/ |
| 13:08.01 | roope | perhaps my application manager turned into the aplication mangler. |
| 13:08.01 | konttori | damn! |
| 13:08.15 | konttori | Are you able to install other programs? |
| 13:08.31 | konttori | Try installing mplayer if you don't already have it |
| 13:08.50 | robtaylor | konttori: thanks. thats a big-ass table... |
| 13:09.07 | jani | konttori: app would use some caching/background downloading so possible caps in playback would be minimal .. |
| 13:09.14 | roope | Why not do this with a device the size of a small car? |
| 13:09.21 | roope | konttori: yeah, for instance mplayer is installing smoothly. |
| 13:10.03 | unique311 | was wine ever discussed for the n800/770? |
| 13:10.06 | *** join/#maemo kenneth (n=kenneth@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:10.38 | pupnik | try windows on an 8mhz IBM AT first |
| 13:10.41 | konttori | roope: and you tried the uktube version. Hmm... could you try uninstalling ukmp 1.0 first? |
| 13:10.58 | konttori | unique311: can't be done, as n800 doesn't have intel processor |
| 13:11.55 | roope | I have uninstalled 1.0 already.... |
| 13:11.59 | pupnik | it's theoretically possible, with an x86 core running the executeables, then wine handling the API |
| 13:12.05 | pupnik | emu core |
| 13:12.53 | gla55 | isn't there dosbox port? |
| 13:13.09 | konttori | roope: and still nothing in the log? |
| 13:13.34 | bstock | anyone have a good list of repo's for os2007 on n770? |
| 13:13.55 | pupnik | http://pupnik.de/dosbox_maemo_065_001.tgz |
| 13:14.15 | pupnik | 0.70 runs too, but has problems |
| 13:14.25 | unique311 | everything compiles expect for winlib... |
| 13:14.28 | guardian | what's the best approach to draw antialised lines in a gtk application ? do it by myself or is there anything i can use ? |
| 13:14.30 | unique311 | Winelib |
| 13:14.49 | roope | still nothing. perhaps my device is just borked. |
| 13:15.22 | konttori | I'll try with my vanilla 770. |
| 13:17.00 | bstock | can i use any n800 apps on an n770 w/ 2007 hacker os? |
| 13:17.50 | pupnik | bstock: not with the latest 2007 hacker os i tried |
| 13:18.25 | pupnik | unique what's the slowest windows machine you've used? now imagine it 100 times slower. |
| 13:18.47 | jani | seems the youtube api is pretty simple. |
| 13:18.58 | bstock | hmm so the packages i use need to be what, regular 770 packages? |
| 13:19.18 | pupnik | bstock, many work, but some demand features only found on the 800 |
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| 13:20.05 | konttori | cool. garage doesn't work on 770 |
| 13:20.20 | konttori | 770 tells me: unable to complete secure transaction. |
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| 13:20.52 | pupnikafk | Qemu has two operating modes: User mode emulation. In this mode, QEMU can launch processes compiled for one CPU on another CPU. It can be used to launch the Wine Windows API emulator |
| 13:21.15 | *** join/#maemo aCiDBaSe (n=osantana@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:21.21 | konttori | ferenc: I'm unable to access garage.maemo.org from 770 |
| 13:23.46 | unique311 | pupnik the slowest cpu use, hmmmmm. amd athlon xp 3400+ |
| 13:24.43 | unique311 | pretty new to this whole computer world..actually i think the notebook i'm using now beats the my desktop |
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| 13:25.06 | unique311 | pentium M 2.0 ghz |
| 13:25.42 | unique311 | 1.69ghz |
| 13:26.40 | roope | btw, http://maemointeraction.wordpress.com/2007/06/26/lets-talk-about-text-input/ |
| 13:27.00 | roope | For those interested in touch screen text input, there's some interesting stuff to read. As well as the design process we had. |
| 13:28.08 | roope | Perhaps also i should spam the ubuntu mobile people... |
| 13:28.23 | derf | I never actually use the built-in input method, anyway. |
| 13:28.43 | konttori | roope: I just tested installing the ukmp on my 770 and it installed without a problem. |
| 13:28.55 | konttori | did you try installing from the web or from a file? |
| 13:29.09 | roope | from the web. |
| 13:29.12 | konttori | Maybe you need to save the deb first and then install from the deb. |
| 13:29.17 | konttori | just a though. |
| 13:29.17 | roope | let's try that. |
| 13:29.50 | roope | oh. yeah. that works. well, that sucks. |
| 13:30.26 | roope | (not that it works, but rather that the browser one didn't work. :) |
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| 13:39.55 | konttori | Hmm... so odd. I'll have to do some tests. |
| 13:42.16 | roope | anyway, the app now starts fine. i'll download some mp3's and test it out some more. |
| 13:44.14 | konttori | roope: Have a test on the uktube as well. it's splendid! |
| 13:44.30 | konttori | Well, the tool. It's more like a tool than an app at the moment. |
| 13:44.41 | roope | let's see. idea of copy-paste sounds a bit clumsy. :) we'll see. |
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| 13:45.26 | konttori | roope: yeah. Would love to make some better way. But as said, it's a proof of concept at the moment. |
| 13:45.50 | roope | like a thing that ... you should check out ... you know the iphone youtube. |
| 13:46.10 | roope | well that was a clear thought. :D but there's this mobile interface to youtube. that's like pushing and promoting featured videos. |
| 13:46.21 | roope | It would be really cool if the app would directly read from that API. |
| 13:47.53 | konttori | roope: I'm kind of planning that, but... ;) It takes some time to make that kind of an app. |
| 13:48.06 | konttori | I was thinking about making it use ukmp interface. |
| 13:48.39 | roope | that would be cool. the thumbnails like your album arts. |
| 13:49.13 | konttori | yeah. Icons are the best way to access stuff using your finger. |
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| 13:51.08 | roope | the individual song titles could also be finger sized. they're a bit small right now. |
| 13:52.30 | roope | you could fit like a 6x2 grid of song titles at once inside an album. |
| 13:52.38 | konttori | But, hover over the songs with your finger -> it won't play unless you click -> Helps to position your finger. |
| 13:53.19 | konttori | Hard to make 6x2 grid. Song names would need to be put to two lines. |
| 13:53.28 | konttori | that is if I would make the font bigger. |
| 13:53.29 | roope | yeah. |
| 13:53.40 | Jaffa | Good UIs are rarely easy, IME ;-) |
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| 13:54.29 | konttori | anyway, I'll keep the two column model in mind in case I have the time to work on it some time. |
| 13:54.41 | Jaffa | roope: your thesis is protected by a username/psasword combo |
| 13:54.43 | roope | i'll sketch it just to check if it's crap. |
| 13:54.43 | gla55 | Jaffa: depends on how complex things the ui needs to achieve.. |
| 13:54.49 | roope | jaffa: wow. oh. |
| 13:55.01 | roope | have to fix that immediately. |
| 13:55.08 | Jaffa | Yeah, it's on planet already ;) |
| 13:55.55 | Jaffa | gla55: I dunno, a good looking, easy-to-use UI may need more design time than implmentation (e.g. drawing/coding)) time, but it's still not easy. Having said that, google.com started off easy enough, I imagine. |
| 13:56.13 | roope | jaffa: nobody said it would be easy. :) |
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| 14:03.25 | konttori | interesting. fps controller for ps3: http://au.gear.ign.com/articles/799/799262p1.html |
| 14:03.52 | roope | jaffa: now the document works, thanks! |
| 14:04.06 | Jaffa | roope: cool, thanks |
| 14:04.55 | Jaffa | roope: yeah, you need to lose the "s" off https:// |
| 14:05.42 | roope | thanks again. :) |
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| 14:42.01 | roope | uktube works. :) |
| 14:46.57 | dragorn | reading the UI design scrollback, a good decision might be to follow the NDS game UI style, where you usually hit a button once to highlight it, and hit it a second time to activate it if the game is touchscreen-driven |
| 14:47.13 | dragorn | might be easy to make a double-hit with highlight button class for hildon |
| 14:47.23 | dragorn | well, it WOULD be easy. Might be worth-while. |
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| 15:17.39 | roope | well, list items work like that already. for buttons the usual expectation is that first press activates. |
| 15:18.01 | roope | lotus notes has those two-press to activate -buttons, and those are universally criticized. |
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| 15:18.42 | dragorn | roope: I don't advocate it for usual apps, but for tablets and especially finger-driven tablet apps, it might make sense is all I'm saying. Works well for the DS. |
| 15:18.46 | ttuttle | Hey, is it true that multimedia (at least sound) is broken on hacker edition 2007 for the N770? |
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| 15:21.28 | ericz | hey ttuttle :) |
| 15:21.35 | ttuttle | ericz: Hey. Yours ship yet? (Mine didn't.) |
| 15:21.50 | ericz | nah, i don't think so, it emails you right? and says in Your Account? |
| 15:22.41 | ttuttle | ericz: Yeah, or so I hear. |
| 15:22.55 | dragorn | from woot? |
| 15:23.00 | ericz | dragorn, yeah |
| 15:23.02 | dragorn | buy.com has them for $140 today, too |
| 15:23.06 | dragorn | for anyone who missed woot yesterday |
| 15:23.09 | ttuttle | dragorn: Are you the Kismet dragorn? |
| 15:23.14 | dragorn | yeah |
| 15:23.18 | ttuttle | dragorn: Cool. What's up? |
| 15:23.31 | ericz | haha, i was hoping on a bluetooth keyboard as today's woot |
| 15:23.33 | ttuttle | dragorn: (How's newcore coming along?) |
| 15:23.37 | ttuttle | ericz: Yeah, you wish. |
| 15:23.38 | dragorn | not much. waiting for builds on stuff to complete. |
| 15:23.43 | ttuttle | dragorn: Need CPU? |
| 15:23.55 | dragorn | ttuttle: Surprisingly close to being done, needs more gui elements and thats about it |
| 15:24.02 | dragorn | and then I need to get mouse working in ncurses |
| 15:24.04 | ttuttle | dragorn: Cool. I'm really excited. |
| 15:24.10 | dragorn | nope, this is work stuff anyhow I'm waiting on. |
| 15:24.27 | ttuttle | dragorn: Ah, /me knows what that's like. Plone takes almost a minute to restart ;-) |
| 15:24.39 | ttuttle | dragorn: distcc over the Internet would probably be pretty slow. (And untrusted.) |
| 15:24.44 | dragorn | yuo |
| 15:24.46 | dragorn | yup |
| 15:25.02 | dragorn | i've got a quad 2ghz amd64. it's fine. :P |
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| 15:25.21 | ttuttle | dragorn: /me grumbles. I've got a dual 2ghz core2duo. It's not bad. :-) |
| 15:26.33 | ttuttle | dragorn: So does Kismet run well on the N770? |
| 15:27.03 | dragorn | not incredibly, the drivers are weird |
| 15:27.17 | dragorn | the 770 works better than the 800, at least w/ the released firmwares, though |
| 15:27.18 | ttuttle | dragorn: Oh. Do they need debugging, or is there no hope? (I wouldn't mind debugging if I can help.) |
| 15:27.27 | dragorn | ttuttle: Not much to debug, they're binary blobs |
| 15:27.28 | ttuttle | dragorn: /me smiles. 770++. |
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| 15:27.32 | ttuttle | dragorn: Ewww. What card? |
| 15:27.45 | dragorn | ttuttle: Wrapped in a small OSS shell to translate to kernel skb buffers |
| 15:27.55 | ttuttle | dragorn: That sucks. |
| 15:28.04 | dragorn | ttuttle: Interesting dodge to avoid using kernel headers in the binary blob |
| 15:28.07 | ttuttle | dragorn: Someone should ban binary blogs. |
| 15:28.11 | ttuttle | dragorn: They suck. |
| 15:28.27 | ttuttle | dragorn: So what kind of card is it? Nokia proprietary? |
| 15:28.51 | dragorn | ttuttle: It's a conexant, somehow related to a prism54 softmac. someone did something to get the p54 softmac driving the card on a 770, but it was a long time ago, theres been no dev since, and it seems like the p54 softmac stuff is in an usuable state of flux at the moment |
| 15:29.22 | ttuttle | dragorn: Ah. That's too bad. softmac is cool. Maybe once d80211/mac80211 settles down someone can port it. |
| 15:29.39 | ttuttle | dragorn: What kind of problems does it have? |
| 15:29.46 | dragorn | We'll see, I don't know how well generic kernels work on the 770 |
| 15:29.53 | dragorn | if there are other magic bits besides the wireless |
| 15:30.07 | ttuttle | dragorn: They *do* offer patches, right? Right? |
| 15:30.09 | dragorn | Well, sometimes it won't go into monitor mode. Sometimes it won't come out. Sometimes it thinks it came out, but doesn't work. |
| 15:30.17 | ttuttle | dragorn: It's illegal not to, I think. |
| 15:30.34 | ttuttle | dragorn: Does repeating the operation help? ;-) |
| 15:31.57 | ttuttle | dragorn: Oh, is anyone maintaining gpsmap? I've thought about making a "1000-in-1" Linux mapping/data application, but I don't know enough about it. |
| 15:31.58 | ericz | bah, online shopping is not cool.. i'm just too impatient |
| 15:32.11 | ttuttle | ericz: Have patience. =D |
| 15:32.34 | ericz | i hope i get it this week at least |
| 15:33.10 | ttuttle | ericz: I think you probably will. But don't quote me. It's probably just my own false hope talking. |
| 15:33.15 | ericz | hrm.. i wonder what my WPA key is.. i'll have to look into that |
| 15:33.20 | ericz | i'm going to need that |
| 15:34.09 | ericz | damn my security practice.. it's going to take forever to type that with an onscreen keyboard |
| 15:35.22 | dragorn | not always. the 800 is even more flaky, usually with the firmware version of the drivers it locks up randomly about 5 minutes in |
| 15:36.39 | dragorn | theres an updated set of the OSS modules which works better, but would require me to go swapping modules on users and chrooting things to initialize the device again, and that doesn't make me too comfortable. I don't like doing things that require users reboot their devices every time if something goes funny |
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| 15:48.35 | ericz | ttuttle, what do you think a round-trip flight to dallas costs? |
| 15:48.50 | dragorn | from? |
| 15:50.07 | ericz | virginia? |
| 15:50.43 | ericz | haha, security would go through everything i owned followed by cavity search because the return flight would only need to be like a few hours after arrival |
| 15:52.45 | dragorn | dunno, i've done NY to SF and back w/ a 6 hour stay in cali and didn't get groped |
| 15:54.56 | ericz | that's a long flight for only 6 hours |
| 15:54.56 | dragorn | yup |
| 15:54.56 | dragorn | about 6 hours each way infact :P |
| 15:54.56 | ericz | i've done VA to seattle quite a few times |
| 15:54.56 | ericz | but i stayed a couple weeks |
| 15:55.15 | ericz | VA to ireland had to be the worst |
| 15:57.58 | dragorn | ttuttle: newcore has been taking a back seat the last few weeks to getting the new wispy hardware running |
| 15:58.59 | ttuttle | dragorn: Ah. Maybe I need to get a WiSpy then. |
| 15:59.49 | dragorn | ttuttle: http://kismetwireless.net/screenshot/spectool-gtk-dev.png ... once I work around the lack of gtk-cairo integration on the maemo stuff it ought to work on the 770/800 too |
| 15:59.55 | dragorn | though I haven't tested the speed it renders on them |
| 16:00.13 | ttuttle | dragorn: Er, but the N770 doesn't allow you to use USB without an awkward power injector. |
| 16:00.26 | dragorn | yeah |
| 16:00.28 | dragorn | oh well |
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| 16:00.29 | dragorn | :P |
| 16:00.33 | ttuttle | dragorn: What's the difference between the Topo and Planar? |
| 16:00.36 | dragorn | Still worth having. Also, network support. |
| 16:00.43 | ttuttle | dragorn: Is Topo over time? |
| 16:00.56 | dragorn | planar is realtime, topo is colored by the # of signal peaks over time |
| 16:01.03 | ttuttle | dragorn: Ah. |
| 16:01.05 | dragorn | when you have overlapping networks you can see them *really* well in topo |
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| 17:24.08 | monteslu | anyone here doing python development for the 770 or 800 ? |
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| 17:26.14 | MoRpHeUz | monteslu: a lot of people I guess =) |
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| 17:32.18 | kulve | MoRpHeUz: btw. gmyth.pc has incorrect -I in Cflags. Or the gms uses wrong #includes |
| 17:34.09 | MoRpHeUz | kulve: hhmm...I'll take a look at that....but gms is written in python..so doesnt have #includes hehe...are you talking about gmyth itself ? |
| 17:34.31 | kulve | bbl |
| 17:36.13 | monteslu | I'm thinking of writing an app that will control my kid's lego mindstorms NXT through bluetooh using NXT_Python: http://home.comcast.net/~dplau/nxt_python/index.html |
| 17:36.41 | monteslu | should I just bundle it for a repo as NXT_Python, plus my app? |
| 17:37.08 | monteslu | my own app will probably be less than 2K |
| 17:37.23 | monteslu | and NXT_Python is pretty small itself |
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| 17:37.53 | dragorn | i'd say 2 packages is better |
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| 17:38.07 | dragorn | because if others develop w/ nxt python it's nice to have it available vanilla |
| 17:38.12 | dragorn | my $0.02 anyhow |
| 17:38.52 | monteslu | hmm.. what if i don't change the libs at all, just add my nxtcontroller.py and a menu entry for it? |
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| 19:13.43 | unique311 | To hildon or not to hildon, that is the question. |
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| 19:46.02 | khertan | Hi ! |
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| 19:52.45 | khertan | Someone know a good small gtk imap client that enable to read imap mail offline ? |
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| 19:58.53 | derf | khertan: I wish. |
| 19:59.11 | derf | If you find one, let me know. Hildon's mail reader is completely useless. |
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| 19:59.44 | mk8 | Hi to all .... |
| 20:09.26 | pupnikafk | i wish nokia were more aggressive with this platform |
| 20:09.45 | gla55 | not time for it yet |
| 20:09.49 | pupnikafk | intel is now doing advertising for them. they have a good set of software (with holes) |
| 20:09.53 | pupnikafk | ok |
| 20:10.14 | pupnikafk | we are bleeding edge |
| 20:10.40 | pupnik | hey gla55, do you want to port a really cool emu to nokia?! :)D |
| 20:11.35 | gla55 | i'm just a 770 user, the dev i do is symbian and j2me |
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| 20:18.55 | khertan | i ve just finish to install gcc-3.4 on my n800 for onboard dev ... |
| 20:19.07 | khertan | can i install the sdk on the device ? |
| 20:19.47 | pupnik | why do you want to do that |
| 20:20.00 | khertan | because i want to dev onboard :) |
| 20:20.22 | khertan | i want to be able to dev while i'm in public transport |
| 20:20.33 | khertan | and i ve not many time at home to dev ... |
| 20:21.03 | khertan | (i m in a train 2,5 hours by days) |
| 20:21.31 | khertan | the header for hildon (hildon-widgets/hildon-program.h) |
| 20:24.12 | kakos | Is there a good file manager for the N800? |
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| 20:32.32 | khertan | arg ... it s take many Mo the dev headers ... |
| 20:33.34 | jani | what?! |
| 20:35.40 | khertan | i m installing the hildon-libs-dev |
| 20:35.50 | khertan | directly on the device |
| 20:36.13 | jani | compiling you mean ? =) |
| 20:37.56 | khertan | yes compiling onboard :) |
| 20:43.58 | khertan | YAAAAPIKAHAY ! |
| 20:44.42 | khertan | i ve successfully compiling onboard (on my n800) a c application that use the hildon framework ... |
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| 20:53.34 | tko | khertan: with just a single battery? amazing :-P |
| 20:55.19 | khertan | lol :) |
| 20:55.36 | khertan | only 30s for a dummy 300 lines applications |
| 20:57.43 | kakos | I'm so glad that metalayer-crawl is smart enough to ignore symlinks. </sarcasm> |
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| 21:10.30 | pupnik | ~flash! ahh ahhhhh!~ |
| 21:11.05 | Sho_ | kakos: mc ;) |
| 21:11.25 | kakos | Sho_: Isn't mc command line based? |
| 21:11.35 | Sho_ | kakos: yes (you'll need Ossi Xterm) |
| 21:11.55 | kakos | Sho_: As much as I love terminals, I'd prefer a GUI-based file manager |
| 21:12.15 | Sho_ | kakos: Unfortunately I haven't found a decent GUI-based one |
| 21:12.20 | Sho_ | (for the N800, that is) |
| 21:12.27 | kakos | gpe-filemanager seems to work fine |
| 21:12.58 | Sho_ | kakos: I was pondering to convert Thunar (XFce.org's lightweight file manager into a Hildon app, but I'm a KDE developer and tremble at the thought of digging into GTK+ code =) |
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| 21:13.43 | tko | Sho_: you could always start by compiling qt and kde... :) |
| 21:13.48 | Sho_ | kakos: http://thunar.xfce.org/index.html |
| 21:14.06 | Sho_ | tko: I could, but unfortunately Maemo's input methods are tied to GTK+ |
| 21:14.23 | tko | Sho_: well, you could continue there.. :) |
| 21:14.33 | kakos | Eh. I don't need a great file manager... just one that lets me get to root without the use of symlinks |
| 21:14.40 | Sho_ | tko: So my first todo item would be to check out if I can somehow splice Xvkbd and the input method together to make it work with Qt windows, too |
| 21:15.15 | tko | there is some reverse-engineered documentation in the wiki, and we should be getting the interesting parts of the input methods published "real soon now" |
| 21:15.38 | Sho_ | tko: Sounds cool - could you hand me a link to that wiki page? |
| 21:16.15 | tko | http://maemo.org/community/wiki/InputMethod I think |
| 21:16.35 | Sho_ | tko: thanks |
| 21:16.37 | tko | I can't recall the state of opening the implementation.. it's been in progress for so long |
| 21:17.05 | Sho_ | tko: got the device less than two weeks ago and didn't have too much time to look into its software guts yet :-) |
| 21:18.15 | Sho_ | tko: With Qt4 it would probably be pretty easy to do given that it can be built to use the glib main event loop |
| 21:20.41 | tko | Sho_: I'd probably just reimplement it since it's all based on a couple of X messages anyway |
| 21:22.18 | Sho_ | food for thought, hmhm |
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| 21:40.19 | roope | kakos: for a transparent keyboard, how would it really work? |
| 21:40.29 | roope | how would you select something from the application area? |
| 21:42.22 | roope | how would you reposition the cursor. how would you paint text. how would you pan the web page etc. |
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| 21:47.34 | kakos | roope: It'd be just like the full-screen keyboard we have now, but it types in real time rather than storing it in a buffer and you can see it interact with the textbox in question |
| 21:47.55 | roope | kakos: so you couldn't actually interact with the background? |
| 21:48.10 | roope | For instance, you couldn't reposition the cursor in the textbox by tapping there? |
| 21:48.17 | kakos | Not while the keyboard is up. Then when you minimise it, you interact with the background again |
| 21:48.21 | roope | That's a quite big problem if you would want to actually put the cursor into a new position. |
| 21:48.52 | kakos | I'm just looking for an incremental improvement on the existing full-screen keyboard rather than the ultimate solution |
| 21:49.06 | roope | how would it improve it? |
| 21:49.35 | kakos | Well, I was always annoyed that I was essentially blind while the full-screen keyboard was up. |
| 21:50.06 | kakos | Say I'm writing something in the Note app, I'd like to be able to see the text appear in the Notes application rather than all the text being crammed into that little buffer at the top |
| 21:50.24 | kakos | Furthermore, if you don't need that buffer at the top, you could space the keys out a little better since you have more screen realestate |
| 21:50.36 | roope | Well. Kind of. But have you tried actually drawing a transparent keyboard on top of text on Notes? It's a complete mess. |
| 21:50.48 | roope | Both have text. It's not really easy to read. |
| 21:51.38 | roope | I'd like to see a real-life worst case example first. :) |
| 21:52.17 | kakos | Well, if you can somehow manage true alpha transparency, it can be done. |
| 21:52.34 | kakos | I have terminals layers upon each other and I can read each layer fairly consistently |
| 21:52.37 | roope | I didn't mean from a technical perspective. Of course it can be done, but. |
| 21:53.03 | roope | I tried. I really tried those when doing the design. |
| 21:53.11 | roope | But at least I thought them to be really poor. |
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| 21:53.44 | kakos | roope: You designed the full-screen keyboard? |
| 21:53.52 | roope | kakos: yup. |
| 21:54.05 | kakos | roope: Cool. :) Thanks, BTW. |
| 21:54.17 | roope | I'm all for still improving it. :) |
| 21:54.28 | roope | But I'm not 100% sure about transparency being an improvement. |
| 21:54.41 | roope | The problem really comes that if the textfield goes behind the keyboard, then manipulating the textfield becomes harder. |
| 21:54.57 | kakos | roope: Neither am I. It was the first thing that came to mind when I was thinking of how to improve it |
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| 21:55.55 | kakos | Hmmm |
| 21:57.41 | roope | For widgets that have labels an obvious improvement would be to just import the label of that widget to the full screen view. |
| 21:57.50 | roope | so at least you remember to which field you are entering text. |
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| 21:58.57 | kakos | Sorry about that |
| 21:59.42 | kakos | Is there a way to tell between a tap from the stylus and a finger pressing on the screen? |
| 21:59.58 | roope | yes. and we utilize it, for launching stylus keyboard / finger keyboard. |
| 22:00.06 | kakos | That's what I thought, but wanted to make sure |
| 22:00.10 | Sho_ | roope: A real-time translucent full-screen keyboard would be an interesting opt-in feature, though. For example, to be able to follow a chat while typing a response, as not to be redundant or late. |
| 22:00.24 | kakos | Perhaps when the full-screen keyboard is up, thumb presses interact with the transparent keys that overlay the screen and the stylus interacts with the background? |
| 22:00.25 | roope | sho: yes, that's true. there are real problems with the current thing. |
| 22:00.43 | roope | kakos: in theory, yes, but who is holding the stylus when using the finger keyboard? |
| 22:00.53 | roope | (your fingernails can act as the stylus, yes.) |
| 22:01.01 | Sho_ | roope: Does the X server on the device ship with COMPOSITE? |
| 22:01.28 | roope | sho: no idea, sorry. I don't really know about the technical stuff. |
| 22:01.33 | roope | I'm an interaction designer. |
| 22:01.50 | kakos | roope: I can hold the stylus while I'm using the thumb keyboard. |
| 22:02.06 | Sho_ | roope: ok :) |
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| 22:02.20 | roope | kakos: yes well, you _can_, but. :) |
| 22:02.24 | kakos | roope: I just kind of nestle it between my palm and the side of the N800 when I'm thumb typing |
| 22:02.36 | roope | Most users don't. |
| 22:02.40 | kakos | roope: Well, I don't care about anyone else. ;) |
| 22:03.05 | roope | I have to care. :) |
| 22:04.47 | kakos | Hmmm. Make one of the buttons swap between interacting with the full-screen keyboard and the background? So, activate a text field, open up the full-screen keyboard, type a little, hit the button and select another text field, hit the button again, type some more, ad nauseum? |
| 22:04.49 | Sho_ | Although curiously, I'm much faster with the stylus-driven keyboard than the finger one (I thought it would be the reverse) |
| 22:05.07 | roope | kakos: wouldn't that button be called the "close keyboard" button? |
| 22:05.17 | roope | close it, select another text field, continue? |
| 22:05.41 | kakos | Yes... |
| 22:05.42 | kakos | Heh |
| 22:05.46 | kakos | I'm tired. :) |
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| 22:06.47 | Sho_ | roope: got any user testing numbers on typing performance stylus vs. fingers? wondering if I'm part of the trend :) |
| 22:07.20 | kakos | You could make the full-screen keyboard an option as the default text entry method so when you click on a text field, it pops up instead of the virtual keyboard or handwriting recognition thing. |
| 22:08.39 | kakos | That way it becomes much easier for users to just close it and switch to a new text field and have it pop up again |
| 22:08.41 | roope | sho: umm, mostly speed-wise there isn't a major difference. |
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| 22:08.49 | roope | some are faster with the one, some with the other. |
| 22:09.10 | Sho_ | hmkay :) |
| 22:09.22 | roope | kakos: that's true, kind of. then agian, if you tap the text field with the thumb, it does launch the full screen immediately. |
| 22:09.47 | roope | speed is gained with time of use. so the more you use one, the faster you become. (chicken and egg, kind of. :) |
| 22:10.05 | kakos | Hmmm. So it does... |
| 22:10.08 | kakos | I didn't know that, actually |
| 22:10.42 | roope | kakos: that's what we use the finger detection. tap text field with stylus -> get stylus optimized input method. tap text field with finger -> get finger optimized input method. |
| 22:11.03 | roope | I like to think that it's a neat idea. :) |
| 22:11.14 | kakos | It is, actually. |
| 22:11.28 | kakos | It just never occurred to me. :) |
| 22:12.33 | kakos | On a slight aside, when you tap the button to get upper case letters, why doesn't it revert to lower-case letters once you hit a key? |
| 22:12.56 | roope | in the finger keyboard? it should. |
| 22:13.19 | Sho_ | kakos: unless by "tap the button to get upper case letters" you mean caps lock ;) |
| 22:13.51 | kakos | Sho_: Yeah, that one, but there is no normal shift in the finger board as far as I can tell. |
| 22:14.06 | Sho_ | hm |
| 22:14.10 | roope | hm |
| 22:14.10 | kakos | roope: Hmmm. Perhaps my install is busted. :( |
| 22:14.52 | roope | no, actually you're right. hmm. |
| 22:14.55 | roope | auto-cap does work, but. |
| 22:15.18 | kakos | yeah. The auto-cap works fine |
| 22:17.34 | roope | I guess. Hm. It's simpler to have only two states and manual user interaction. I didn't want three states. like shift state and caps lock state. |
| 22:17.40 | roope | then again, it wouldn't really need caps lock at all. |
| 22:20.05 | roope | poor answer, sorry. :) |
| 22:21.07 | kakos | Heh |
| 22:21.50 | kakos | Would it be possible to make the transparency thing a selectable option? With it off, you get what we have now, with it on you get a transparent keyboard without the buffer thingie so you can do things like chat |
| 22:22.29 | roope | It would have a fair bit of work, because then all the button sizes would need to change. The layout would ideally change. |
| 22:22.52 | roope | Rather than just increasing the height of the current buttons, a better layout could be created. and that would be very much work et.c |
| 22:23.27 | kakos | I'll make you cookies if you do it. <3 |
| 22:25.01 | kakos | Anyway, just a suggestion. |
| 22:25.19 | kakos | Does Maemo actually support alpha transparency? |
| 22:25.28 | roope | yeah. but it wouldn't be really trivial. |
| 22:25.35 | roope | kakos: some parts already do. |
| 22:25.56 | roope | so yes technically, it can be done. it's not used universally. |
| 22:26.19 | kakos | Well, just a suggestion. |
| 22:26.32 | kakos | I'll send you guys a delicious cake if you implement it, but I won't hold my breath. :) |
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| 22:40.12 | kakos | roope: Do you know if the thumb keyboard is open sourced or not? |
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| 23:57.28 | PierreTramo | any *BSD user here? |
