IRC log for #maemo on 20070530

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05:58.07keesjHi
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06:21.52Prez__hello
06:23.11Prez__anyone gotten an n800 to connect to a laptop via bluetooth to do networking over laptop's network?
06:23.38Prez__this a linux laptop, btw
06:25.34Prez__wow, 180 people, no one home?
06:29.21cosmoi don't have a n800 or a laptop with bluetooth
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06:34.10Prez__sorry, a realize this might not be correct channel for this sorta question, maybe there is another chanel for n800 or any non developerish questions?
06:35.02cosmoi think this is a good channel for that
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06:37.10Prez__thing is I have wired ethernet to my laptop, i´d like to use the laptop as gateway for N800
06:37.46Prez__i used to be able to turn my precious laptop into a wifi AP, but this new one has different chipset for wifi
06:38.03Prez__that is previous laptop, not precious...sorry
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06:42.23cosmoi think there is something about bluetooth networking in the wiki
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06:52.10timelesscosmo: he said wifi AP, not BT
06:52.32timelessthat sounds more like a problem that the laptop os vendor should help w/
06:52.38timelessoh
06:52.49timelesshrm, no, i didn't see the earlier scrollback, sorry :(
06:53.50timelesshttp://maemo.org/maemowiki/HOWTO-BluetoothNetworking
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07:30.19mk8Hi to all ...
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07:34.55Free_maNhi mk8
07:35.04mk8Hi Free_maN
07:35.11Free_maN:)
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07:52.30guardianhello maemo
07:52.59keesjagain!
07:53.12unique311danm...who has the nick maemo
07:53.13narixahi
07:53.17unique311hllo
07:53.36N800maybe i should register that one..
07:53.37N800heh
07:54.27N800ok, i'm officially a loser
07:54.32keesj:p
07:54.49N800join the crew keesj, register 770
07:57.50N800nick..
07:58.28N800770 erroneous nickname
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07:59.16botuxI need to get me a real nick :P
08:00.11N800try
08:00.37botuxThatReallyNiceGuy
08:00.48N800too orinal
08:00.52N800original
08:01.01inzRemovusWrinklusFrumYourForuhead
08:01.21N800IneededARealNickSoIchooseThisOne
08:01.36narixarly? (:
08:01.44N800lol
08:01.48inzya rly
08:01.51inzo_O
08:01.55narixano waii! :D
08:02.03narixa'- '
08:02.33botuxI_SeriouselyNeedSomeNewbieHelp
08:02.39inzCamelCaseIsForLoses...OhWait...
08:02.43inz+r
08:03.19N800LifesAbitchAndThenYouDie
08:04.18N800i have seriously run out of ideas for osx86 and my n800
08:04.51botuxN800: it's summer that's perhaps why
08:04.57botuxat least here in amsterdam :p
08:05.17N800i party hard in the winter...
08:05.22N800summer i chill....
08:05.30N800too much trouble in nueva york..
08:05.52N800teh devil is out full blown in new york city...
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08:07.59botuxN800: for the the big question is actualy what do I want to do on the devices
08:08.22botuxI like programming , that is really all I really like to do
08:08.28botux(on computers that is)
08:08.42N800i don't know how to program..
08:08.50N800i think thats my problem
08:08.52pnahi * problems to install camera on sardine
08:08.57botuxSo I guess I would like to program ON you
08:09.33N800program on me
08:09.36N800hmmmm
08:09.40dpb_kinky
08:09.41N800i don't know about that..
08:09.56pnaI'm tryng ti install from the deb on garage.maemo
08:10.03pnathe camera 2_7
08:10.12botuxBut I am happy that somebody is working on gcompris, I guess I need to spend time on that
08:10.40N800pick up mtpaint botux...
08:10.45N800it needs you...
08:10.46N800heheh
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08:10.57N800i need it..
08:11.42botuxdid you try the new image editor?
08:11.51N800which?
08:11.58N800xournal?
08:12.57botuxMirage
08:13.11N800thats a photoviewer
08:13.15N800isn't it?
08:13.26botuxYes , oops sorry
08:13.31N800lol
08:13.41N800image editor..same difference
08:13.53N800i did try horizon..
08:13.57N800very nice...but limited..
08:14.04N800and has issues
08:14.13botuxI liked it
08:14.30N800i installed visual studio today..
08:14.47N800i installed lots of dev apps last 2 dayz..
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08:16.21N800not sure why...after reading some going thru some ebooks on the different languages..
08:17.04N800not sure i need them
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08:18.08botuxN800: do you work in the embeded world?
08:19.14N800no
08:19.25N800I'm an artist...
08:19.38N800fuck that could mean anything now days...
08:22.16Fatal:D
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08:24.40N800i don't sing or pretend to be somone i'm no...I don't get paid for doing lots of cocaine being 6,1 and weighing 140 pounds...I'm a real artist...something like a bob ross...
08:26.02N800the part about doing the cocaine....
08:26.17N800?
08:27.15N800I would if it birth a masterpiece....
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08:30.25X-Fade_N800: Do you create art on your N800? :)
08:31.52AD-N770good morning
08:32.25N800yes i do...
08:32.38N800but am limited to a small screen...
08:32.59N800i was using smaller...i have a ppc6700 that I made some real nice stuff on..
08:36.29X-FadeN800: Do you have some of your work online?
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08:38.37N800http://unique11210.googlepages.com/monthly0.html
08:38.41N800i have that
08:38.47N800very proud of it..
08:38.59N800cause if you look close you can see its a bunch of lines...
08:39.17N800knowing the size of the device i did it on..
08:39.44N800I have paintings....
08:40.32N800lots of blackbook works...
08:41.14timelessping
08:41.24timelessis anyone here familiar w/ /proc/cpuinfo?
08:41.31N800I'll update that page with something i do  on the N800
08:41.41N800i think i have something..
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08:44.22N800X-fade you draw....
08:44.25zuhtimeless: What of it?
08:48.53timelessi'm wondering how standardized its output is
08:48.57timelesstimeless@boffo:~$ grep -E '^model name\W*:.*Katmai' /proc/cpuinfo
08:48.58timelessmodel name      : Pentium III (Katmai)
08:49.16timelesscan i be assured that my search for something like that will always do something like i want?
08:49.36timelessis a token like 'model name' ever going to change its spelling, flavor, etc?
08:49.53timelessdo I need to do LC_ALL=C before doing cat /proc/cpuinfo?
08:50.30timelesswill the : ever become some other marker? ...
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08:53.04zuh"always" is a bit strong word here... :)
08:53.33X-FadeN800: Sorry, I was away from the keyboard.
08:53.57N800np
08:54.04X-FadeN800: Nice one.. As you are drawing on a low res device..
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08:54.32X-FadeN800 at least has a higher resolution.. 800x480.
08:54.52N800yes
08:55.05N800can take advantage of that in fullscreen...
08:55.29N800the drawing app i used for the ppc is called vaspaint...
08:55.38N800lots of usefull tools..
08:55.54N800i get the same from mtpaint.
08:57.08N800http://s50.photobucket.com/albums/f333/unique311/?action=view&current=Budn800screen.jpg
08:57.17N800thats from mtpaint on the n800
08:57.51N800which is not. bad....could be better....
08:58.12Okko_timeless: There can be multiple "model name" rows at least. I have 2 processors and it shows them both.
08:58.39X-FadeN800: Yeah, you would need a full screen app.
09:00.05N800the screenshot is from mtpaint also..theirs a feature to take screens with it...
09:00.17N800not a bad app at all..
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09:04.30timelessokko: i have 2 processors too, not particularly worried about that
09:04.48timelessi'm actually looking for: system type             : EE PS2
09:05.09timelessand i'm hoping that I won't encounter a computer w/ different flavors of MIPS :)
09:09.07Okko_timeless: my PC doesn't give system type at all
09:09.17timelessnor do any of mine
09:09.38Okko_ok :)
09:10.03timelesswhich is part of the reason that i'm very worried about writing a patch
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09:14.49timeless... while (fgets(buf, 256, f)) { - if ( (strstr(buf, "system type\t\t: ") == buf) ... Unfortunately the format of /proc/cpuinfo is not standardized. ...
09:14.49timelesswww.ssl.berkeley.edu/pipermail/boinc_cvs/2006-June/009274.html - 11k -
09:14.53timelessthat's so reassuring
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09:34.09jkyrohello
09:34.20jkyroany .install file wizards around?
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09:34.34jkyrois it possible to specify multiple repositories
09:35.01jkyroI have difficulties accessing the maemo website...
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09:37.31inzjkyro, the app installer documentation says it is possible, but it isn't
09:37.49inzjkyro, it might be in svn, but not in the version currently shipped
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09:39.47jkyrook, so the options are either to copy the depended packages over or perform some other ugliness...
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09:42.06jkyrothanks for the quick reply
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09:47.40zuhEven though development in the open is a good thing, this also brings frustration when it advances lightyears ahead of (non-open) sw releases. It's like: "Hey, here's [candy feature]. Oh, you need to wait for a release where it is to be able to use it. And no, nobody can say when it's coming since it's company s3kr1ts."
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09:50.37Jaffazuh: true
09:50.44zuhAnd it's of course worse when it applies to bugs too
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11:05.21Gathajawould someone know what I'm doing wrong when scratchbox says "You must close your other Scratchbox sessions first" when I try to switch from X86 to ARMEL
11:05.51Gathajait works one time and after that only that error until reboot
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11:07.00dpbyou need to kill all the processes you've started inside scratchbox
11:09.04Gathajaoh
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11:11.09Gathajastupid me :)
11:11.10Gathajathanks
11:13.30dpbnp
11:15.39konttori_Hi all!
11:16.15konttori_demonstration video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCIANUJ-ctg
11:16.29konttori_debian here: https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/1491/UKMP-1.0.deb
11:16.41konttori_(you need to have python installed)
11:16.54konttori_if you don't have python, install from here: https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/1182/python2.4-runtime.install
11:21.08konttori_Comments thread in here: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=50157#post50157
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11:30.49melmothben c est juste un pub .
11:30.50melmothoups
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12:08.11i-nZI just updated my n800 with latest libgtk/glib and now it won't boot
12:08.16i-nZ0_0
12:08.31i-nZlatest as in the ones from the Repositories wiki page
12:08.34i-nZfor 2007
12:11.42i-nZwhat the hell
12:12.34i-nZlibgtk 2.10.6-0ubuntu3.1
12:12.35i-nZ?!
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12:17.35ian_brasil_any news on the repository situation?
12:18.47X-Fadei-nZ: How did _that_ gtk end up on your device? :)
12:19.08i-nZrepos
12:19.12i-nZas I already told you
12:19.16i-nZit is in the repos
12:19.20i-nZi will kill the one who put it there
12:19.27i-nZcan someone tell me how to downgraden now
12:19.51X-Fadei-nZ: Do you have a dualboot setup?
12:19.56i-nZno
12:20.46i-nZplease help me
12:20.50i-nZhow to use apt-get to downgrade
12:20.52i-nZI am in ssh
12:21.01X-FadeAh, you can still connect to it?
12:21.06i-nZlibgtk2.0-0 (= 2.10.6-0ubuntu3.1) but 2:2.6.10-2.osso30 is to be installed
12:21.13robtaylori-nZ: apt-get install $package=$version
12:21.14i-nZYeah i can. but the OS doesn't load
12:21.17i-nZah =
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12:21.36i-nZlibgtk2.0-0 is already the newest version.
12:21.38i-nZ:|
12:21.49i-nZapt-get install libgtk2.0-0=2:2.6.10-2.osso30
12:22.42i-nZapt-get upgrade libgtk2.0-0=2:2.6.10-2.osso30
12:22.46i-nZ0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
12:22.49i-nZnow what?
12:23.01i-nZwhy doesn't apt-get have query command
12:23.04i-nZARGH
12:23.10X-Fadehttp://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo3.1/free/binary/libgtk2.0-bin_2.6.10-2.osso30_armel.deb
12:23.23X-FadeYou can download and install that with dpkg?
12:23.25i-nZi have that repository added
12:23.28i-nZokay
12:24.08i-nZi think I also have libglib ubuntu installed
12:25.53X-Fadehttp://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo3.1/free/binary/libglib2.0-0_2.8.6-1osso11_armel.deb
12:25.58i-nZthanks
12:26.45i-nZnow how can I query where is the ubuntu package?
12:27.18X-Fadei-nZ: Just apt-get upgrade and use the download only option?
12:27.31i-nZlet's see if the device will load maemo at all
12:27.32X-FadeThat way you can see where it fetches the fike..
12:27.40X-Fade*file
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12:28.35mateushi all
12:28.42i-nZwtf
12:28.48i-nZnow it loops infinetly in loading
12:30.05i-nZand I can no longer ssh
12:30.07i-nZ0_0
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12:30.48X-Fadei-nZ: Hmm then it probably updated another package too..
12:31.29i-nZsys-magic
12:31.40i-nZglib gtk and iptables afair
12:31.42i-nZbusybox too
12:32.27i-nZnow i am completly screwed
12:34.36konttoriBlog entry for the ukmp 1.0 launch: http://konttoristhoughts.blogspot.com/2007/05/ukmp-10-outhttpwwwbloggercomimggllinkgi.html
12:35.04i-nZbtw what is the license of corola corona or whatever it is spelled
12:35.19zuhcanola?
12:35.23i-nZyes
12:35.53zuhDunno, but it's closed anyway
12:36.20i-nZright closed
12:37.20i-nZi am going to flash the device
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12:40.17ian_brasil_the release upload on garage.maemo.org does not seem to work for me
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12:43.45guardianis this supposed to work: from my workstation i'm going to downloads.maemo.org, on the right side bar, i select "IT OS 2007" then click fetch and there are still IT OS 2006 only packages displayed
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12:48.30ian_brasil_https://garage.maemo.org/frs/admin/qrs.php is not working
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12:51.56i-nZi can't seem to get the nokia flashed
12:52.19i-nZhttp://pastebin.ca/522471
12:52.29i-nZjust prints that but i don't see any flashing activity
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12:53.56i-nZideas?
12:54.10i-nZops
12:54.26i-nZmissed the -F
12:55.36i-nZi am going to kill the guy who placed ubuntu packages in the maemo repo
12:57.48plaesugh, really?
12:57.57plaesI mean the packages part...
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13:12.17Free_maNhelp me :( don't arrived to install new modull cx3110 for n770
13:12.19parti-nZ: uh, what packages?
13:12.44Free_maNrmmod cx3110x
13:12.50i-nZlibgtk and libglib
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13:13.04Free_maNinsmod cx3110x_mt ==> no such device
13:13.08Free_maN:(
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13:13.31parti-nZ: which repo?
13:13.38i-nZi don't know which one it was
13:14.18i-nZone of those for 2007 http://maemo.org/community/wiki/applicationrepositories/
13:16.06parti-nZ: looks like it would be http://repository.nrcc.noklab.com/
13:16.37i-nZyes it looks like
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13:19.31partmaybe that should be removed from the list
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13:21.29i-nZthe eko and tortoise are dead links too
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14:01.54pnahi * tryng build pack for the latest trunk version of hildon-desktop 0.0.15 but when I launch dpkg-builpackage i got an:
14:01.59pnadpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: libxcomposite-dev
14:02.27pnaanyway i don't find the libcomposite in sardine nor any other repo
14:03.39pnas/libcomposite/libxcomposite-dev
14:05.00pnabut when i go with an dpkg-buildpackage -d -rfakeroot everything goes smooth
14:05.59pnaso whats wrong with /me? well nothing just to know what is that lixcomposite
14:06.40pnals
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14:29.49zuhpna: libxcomposite is the interface library for the Composite extension. I guess hildon-desktop only optionally uses it so ignoring the build dependancy causes no harm (the feature is just automatically disabled in the configure script)
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14:34.51i-nZDo you know if SD cards have high impact on battery life?
14:35.04i-nZand what if I use an SD card to increase the virtual memory?
14:36.02mgedmindo you often run out of memory?
14:36.24i-nZWell I have had this device for a couple of days only
14:36.27mgedminI'd say the 64 megs of the 770 is not enough, but the 128 megs of the n800 so far has been plenty for my use cases
14:36.33i-nZmhm
14:36.42guardianah its cool
14:36.45mgedminI suggets a memory monitor statusbar applet (load-applet or osso-statusbar-cpu)
14:36.45guardiani installed remote desktop
14:36.55guardianworks smoothly, only pb is that i can't enter any text :)
14:37.18mgedminguardian: I've heard that rdesktop has that problem
14:37.20i-nZso what about the impact on battery life?
14:37.25mgedminwindows has its own on-screen keyboard, doesn't it?
14:38.14i-nZi will be flying on sunday and just ripped some of my dvds
14:38.18mgedminthe battery lasts 5-6 hours when offline and reading with fbreader
14:38.18i-nZto watch :)
14:38.35i-nZmhm
14:38.46mgedminmaybe more, I've never measured it accurately
14:38.47i-nZi just put 2x 2gb cards in :)
14:38.57i-nZmaybe a bit excessive
14:39.12mgedminI have one 4gb card
14:39.16mgedminit still has 1 gig free
14:39.34mgedminI had another 512 meg in the other slot, but it suddenly died on me
14:39.45mgedminI didn't know SD cards could just up and die with no prior warning
14:39.55mgedminit's not readable with a USB SD reader either
14:41.04guardianmgedmin: well i could install handwriting recognition on the windows pc i'm accessing through remote desktop :)
14:42.13i-nZI am quite intreguied to see how much the battery will last for watching a movie
14:42.14i-nZ:))
14:43.32i-nZwhat software do you use to convert .docs etc to something that you can nicely read?
14:43.53melmothi dont use .doc :)
14:44.01melmothbut you may print them in a file
14:44.13melmothso you have a postscript file , and from them ps2pdf
14:44.42mgedminisn't there an abiword port for maemo?
14:44.50mgedminit ought to be able to read .doc files
14:45.41i-nZthere is for n770
14:45.45etrunkomgedmin: the abiword port is quite unstable
14:45.49i-nZwell doc/odt
14:45.54etrunkodoesn't worth a try
14:46.03etrunkonot yet
14:46.06i-nZpdf reading isn't very pleasant
14:46.21i-nZthe built-in reader in n800 can't scroll with a shortcut
14:46.35mgedmini-nZ, what do you mean by that?
14:46.36zuhi-nZ: Use evince
14:46.37i-nZand there is no word wrapping
14:46.49mgedminyeah, no word-wrapping
14:46.52i-nZevince is a bit slow and seems to put a lot of load on the cpu when antialiasing the text
14:46.54mgedminso the fonts get pretty tiny
14:47.11mgedminother than that it's not too bad
14:47.13i-nZso it drains the battery more i suppose
14:47.26i-nZfbreader is cute but doesn't handle large stuff
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14:47.35mgedminI last tried evince on the 770, and it ate up all the memory after rendering 3 or 4 pages
14:47.36i-nZi have 1200 pages rtf and txt
14:47.42i-nZrefuses to load
14:47.47mgedminoh?
14:47.54zuhi-nZ: But it isn't as braindead to use as the orig. pdf viewer
14:47.56mgedminI'm surprised
14:47.59i-nZi ended up using html to read that
14:48.04mgedminfbreader hasn't choked up on any file yet
14:48.25mgedminalthough it had some problems with some rtf files (missing sentences, that kind of thing)
14:48.48mgedminI finally discovered it didn't like a \*
14:48.50i-nZi had encoding problems with rtf
14:48.52guardianis it me or maemo.org is slow ?
14:48.57i-nZyes it is
14:49.01guardianok
14:49.05guardiani won't blame it then :D
14:49.05etrunkoas usual
14:49.11i-nZgoogle cache helps
14:49.11i-nZ:)
14:49.28guardianseems that migration to midgard is not a smooth process :/
14:49.52i-nZso at the end of the day if I want to read documents i have on my desktop PC i don't get much choice
14:52.44i-nZcan I get gcc on the device ? :P
14:52.48i-nZon the nokia n800
14:53.59melmothi-nZ: why ?
14:54.07melmoth(note that i dont know the anwser :) )
14:54.12melmothi compile stuff on scratchbox
14:54.19i-nZi dunno not to feel deprived :))
14:54.30melmothscratchbox
14:54.30i-nZi am so confused with this debian stuff still
14:54.33melmothplus it s faster
14:54.37i-nZthat's for sure
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15:55.13zuhumm...
15:55.13zuhCould someone stop that nick toggling from happening?
15:55.58zuhEither Pr3dS|Phgre, Phoenigore or anyone with teh Powa to do so the less friendly way...
15:56.46`0660Phoenigore, why do you change your nick all the time?
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15:57.57`0660hmm, it seems to happen every 5 minutes. the actual person might not be aware of it
16:00.58Aleksandyrnote to self: learn irssi
16:01.08Aleksandyranyone happen to know the kline command? :)
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16:09.34NostferkaAircrack for palm?
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16:25.49c0ffeenow that are interesting nicks, thanks for sharing
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17:07.13defor^workhello
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18:04.27Aleksandyrlittle too quiet in here
18:04.43Aleksandyr*cricket*
18:05.01Sulis*tumbleweed*
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18:05.48AleksandyrI mean, we have working Java now
18:06.01AleksandyrI figured that'd be good for some talking =/
18:06.25guardiangeez
18:06.35*** join/#maemo Hyperion|n800 (n=user@wireless-229-90.uchicago.edu)
18:07.06guardianjava :) welcome to 1999
18:07.08i-nZjava huh
18:07.12i-nZwho needs java when there is mono
18:07.23i-nZ*c#/mono
18:07.24Aleksandyrguardian: yeah, I know :)
18:07.29guardiani would say, isn't mono worthless now that java is open source ?
18:07.42guardianreinventing another wheel that in the end is the same
18:07.48Aleksandyrthe next-gen Microsoft VMs look pretty interesting
18:07.56AleksandyrI will say
18:08.17AleksandyrJ2ME is kind of perfect for the N800, imnho.
18:08.37guardianat least it keeps people busy
18:08.37gla55_personal profile would be better
18:08.37Aleksandyrno .NET equivalent really exists (.NET CF doesn't count)
18:08.41Aleksandyrwe have personal profile now :)
18:08.46gla55_we do??
18:08.48Aleksandyrwell, we have basis, which is allegedly a superset of personal
18:08.48gla55_great
18:09.19guardianwhat's the avantage of using garage compared to my own server space ?
18:09.36Aleksandyrguardian: lots more traffic/publicity on garage
18:09.51guardiani don't look for fame
18:10.33Aleksandyrit's not fame, but it'd be easier to find your stuff on garage
18:10.44Aleksandyrplus, if it's on garage, I imagine getting it in to extras is easier
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19:38.07Milhouse2maemo.org... down?
19:38.44Sulisnot here
19:39.01unique311no
19:39.02Milhouse2planet seemed to disappear for a bit - back now.
19:39.06unique311works here also
19:39.06Milhouse2(thanks)
19:39.26Milhouse2I just wanted to see if there was any comment on the Palm Foleo - what an odd device!
19:39.41Milhouse2Those guys better take another hit...
19:40.17Suliswhat is that?
19:40.23Milhouse2New Palm device
19:40.28Milhouse2http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/9436/palm-officially-introduces-the-foleo/
19:40.35Milhouse2A "Smartphone Companion"
19:40.45unique311i just checked that out..
19:40.54unique311what a co en ki denk
19:40.55i-nZlooks like a laptop to me
19:40.57i-nZhuh
19:41.05unique311its a palmtop
19:41.06melmothindeeed
19:41.07unique311hehehe
19:41.11AlowishusI say it's the N800 but in a bigger form that makes it useless
19:41.16Milhouse210" screen, 2lb weight, no touchscreen, 1024x800 screen, WiFi, BT... it's a laptop!
19:41.28melmoth<PROTECTED>
19:41.39Milhouse2Palm Fanboys have already dubbed it the "Fooleo"... I think they may be right
19:41.56Sulisyeah, it is a laptop, although a fairly compact one
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19:42.33Milhouse2compact for sure, but big enough to be compared directly with a laptop where it will probably be slated
19:42.40unique311theirs also a video of the founder talking avout it..
19:42.43Milhouse2probably == should be
19:42.45unique311and its small..
19:43.06unique311looks like that little compact sony vaio...that i still want but can't afford...
19:43.08Milhouse2unique311 - I watched it, and felt embarassed
19:43.48Sulisunique311: i think the one that you're refering to is smaller than that...
19:44.01Milhouse2If Palm had come up with something using the N800 form factor they might have been on to something but this... this is what took them five years??? Perhaps they should have revised the form factor at some point during the last couple of years
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19:44.52konttoriHey, is it possible to create an .install file without a repo?
19:44.55Sulisat one point i wanted to get one of the 10" ibooks
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19:45.13konttoriLike just contain a link to the .deb file
19:45.26Suliskonttori: why would you want to do that?
19:45.35melmothkonttori: not that i am aware of, but you can make a really simple repository with 1 directory, and 1 deb inside
19:45.46konttoriSo that I can use a garage account
19:45.58kooshi, would a dbus question appropriate here?
19:46.36melmothkoos: i guess so as long as it s maemo related .
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19:47.01melmothjust for the record, i m clueless for any dbus and lib osso stuff :(
19:47.11Sulisthere's a
19:47.16Sulisahem
19:47.34Sulisthere's a channel called #dbus on this network where all the d-bus devs hang out
19:47.55koosmelmoth, sulis: ok, I go there ..
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19:48.30Sulis:( i didn't mean to tell him to go away
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19:49.29||cwSulis: some people don't understand that you can be in more than one channel
19:49.32konttorimelmoth: but that would require a dir named build, right?
19:49.41melmothnot necessarily
19:50.02melmothhttp://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/repository-howto/repository-howto
19:50.38melmoththe main stuff is the dpkg-scanpackages utilitiThat creates Packages.gz
19:51.35melmothkonttori: another issue is also that the web server where the .install file is located must tell it s a specific mime type
19:51.42konttoriOk, but I still can't use garage folders, as then users would have one repo for every release they DL. = not nice
19:51.45melmothotherwise, the browser will just display it
19:52.03i-nZwhy oh why debian why oh why
19:52.14i-nZnow i have to learn a new system
19:52.20melmoththis is not a debian issue, this is a maemo one (hte .install file)
19:52.30i-nZi am moaning in general
19:52.34i-nZfor the nokia n800
19:52.36Aleksandyrmy ability to complain about the debian package system is sharply constrained by how well it works :)
19:52.39melmothkonttori: if i understand correclty , if your app is mature enough you can have it hosted on extra
19:52.46konttoriYeah
19:52.52konttoriReally?
19:52.54konttoriHow?
19:52.58melmothwait
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19:53.30melmothhttp://maemo.org/community/wiki/ExtrasRepository
19:53.38konttoriThere is an example video of the ukmp app in here: http://konttoristhoughts.blogspot.com/2007/05/ukmp-10-outhttpwwwbloggercomimggllinkgi.html
19:53.49konttorisweet! thank you!
19:54.14Aleksandyrkonttori: dark skin reminds me of today's surface demo :)
19:54.31konttoriwhat surface demo?
19:54.36AleksandyrMicrosoft Surface?
19:54.45Aleksandyrit's the iTable
19:55.05konttoriHaven't seen it yet. watching now
19:55.31konttoriIs it possible HW wise to have multitouch in maemo?
19:55.38konttoriI mean for 770 / N800?
19:55.44unique311konttori...you build the media player using visual basic?
19:56.22AleksandyrI assume that whatever lets thumb-detection work
19:56.22konttoriNope, with python
19:56.22unique311ok
19:56.22Aleksandyrcould be modified to do basic multi-touch detection
19:56.23unique311How are you with C++?
19:56.26AleksandyrI mean, assuming the touchpad works the way I expect it does
19:56.29Sulisso that you could have some gestures or something?
19:56.36Sulisthat would be cool
19:56.41konttoriunique311: Haven't coded it much lately. Should be ok.
19:56.45xandaniel stone said it's impossible iirc, search maemo-developers archives
19:57.08Aleksandyrxan, I imagine there's a controller in between me and the raw touchpad resistance values
19:58.46AleksandyrI'd rather see PowerVR drivers first, of course :)
19:59.04SulisPowerVR?
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19:59.19Aleksandyrthe N800 sports a PowerVR MBX accelerator
19:59.50konttoriNokia did hint that they were in discussions about the powervr.
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20:00.40Aleksandyrfyi, the powervr mbx is what allows the N95 to play 640x480 MPEG4 at 30fps
20:00.42xanAleksandyr, as far as I remember the HW simply can't give you more than one pressure point at the same time, but as I said I'm only quoting from memory
20:00.48Sulisooo, 3d chip in the n800?
20:00.58Aleksandyrxan, makes sense, who would ever want multiple pressure point data =/
20:01.18konttorixan: I'm remembering the same thing.
20:01.43xanAleksandyr, I suppose it's simply more expensive to do :)
20:01.48konttoriI think the design of multi
20:01.54konttoriUps
20:02.00Gathaja<PROTECTED>
20:02.08Aleksandyrxan, not only that, but there's all sorts of event models that expect one point at a time
20:02.11Gathajaups :P
20:02.15konttori;)
20:02.24konttorigood one!
20:02.38Gathaja:D
20:02.47Aleksandyris thumb mode simply a pressure-based option? I've never really used it
20:02.51Gathajadamn spacebar
20:02.55Sulishehe
20:03.50konttoriI wonder how many patents microsoft has already aplied for on the surface project.
20:04.11AleksandyrI'm confused as to how they didn't step on the iPhone
20:04.22Sulishow could they do that?
20:04.24Aleksandyrthen again, a multi-touch surface is a pretty obvious generalization.
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20:05.54SulisAleksandyr: obvious to techy geek types :P
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20:07.43konttorican there be any other point for the 'surface' demo than to let investors know microsoft is 'on top of the game' and letting investors know of new patents? I mean have they told any concrete examples of use (like... say apple has done on the iphone)
20:08.07Aleksandyrit is a bit of shilling for the press
20:08.26Milhouse2apprently it's targetted at restaurants... not expecting it to appear in my local chinese anytime soon
20:08.26Aleksandyrbut it's an honest-to-goodness way to expand computing into the living room
20:09.28Milhouse2also, i'm not really sure i want to slide my fingers all over a surface in a public space... i don't suppose Bill thought of the hygiene issues here
20:09.29Suliskonttori: i'm just thinking of the desk that the head guy had in "The Island"
20:09.46SulisMilhouse2: probably better than a public keyboard
20:09.59Milhouse2Sulis - fair point
20:10.06konttoriSulis: oh yeah. that was pretty cool
20:10.08AleksandyrMilhouse2: better than a keyboard (damn you Sulis:) and antibiotic plastic surfaces are an easy trick
20:10.19Aleksandyrpfft I'm thinking LCARS all the way
20:10.20Milhouse2but I don't often use public keyboard, whereas the surface may become more common place (though I doubt it)
20:10.44SulisLCARS ooo, good point
20:10.53konttoriI don't think that's a very real life example. I mean, viable real life example. Except for a few korean and taiwanese cafes
20:10.58Milhouse2Is BillG a Trekie? :)
20:11.20Milhouse2honestly, restaurants is one of the use cases (read it somewhere - BBC?)
20:11.27Sulislol, he's like one of the high priests of the temple of nerd!
20:11.47Milhouse2"Also designed to interact with mobile phones placed on the surface, Microsoft says it will initially sell the unit to corporate customers.
20:11.47Milhouse2These will include hotels, casinos, phone stores and restaurants."
20:12.07Milhouse2(c) BBC
20:12.15Milhouse2http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6703249.stm
20:12.52Milhouse2Surface - the new TabletPC...
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20:15.24AleksandyrI'm an HCI geek. What can I say.
20:15.26sp3000http://users.on.net/~disko/touchbsod.jpg
20:16.09AleksandyrLCARS + Surface = http://databsod.ytmnd.com/
20:17.15Milhouse2Going OT, why haven't Nokia released any devices that charge using inductive coupling? ie. Splashpower?
20:17.29Milhouse2you just put your phone down on a plate and it begins charging
20:18.07Aleksandyrinductive coupling has massive, massive, issues, I thought?
20:18.10konttoriI think it would cost more than the current rechargers.
20:18.31AleksandyrI've got an inductively charged electric toothbrush, and it positively glows after a long enough charging session
20:18.50Milhouse2I thought the issues were solved, there's at least two companies selling it. Don't know the cost, but I suppose it might be expensive to start with (as Bluetooth was initially)
20:19.40Aleksandyrmy electrical engineering and electrophysics classes suggest differently :)
20:19.49Milhouse2Given the convenience factor, and the ability to use a single plate for many devices (ie. actually save on adapters) I'd say it had legs even if there is a cost..
20:20.19konttoriBy the way, did you guys test out the ukmp 1.0 already? If so, any comments?
20:20.26Milhouse2Well Splashpower reckon they've cracked it, and some other US company too
20:20.31Sulisheh, but knowing all the companies that are making devices, you'd need to have about 10 different plates
20:21.05Milhouse2Right, but that's where the oppurtunity lies in enforcing a standard while the market is still small
20:21.16Milhouse2I only know of two players
20:21.20Sulisyeah, also like bluetooth
20:21.25Sulis...i gues
20:21.27Suliss
20:22.09konttoriMilhouse2: Have a look at the screenshot and video here: http://konttoristhoughts.blogspot.com/2007/05/ukmp-10-outhttpwwwbloggercomimggllinkgi.html
20:22.20Milhouse2I guess it will need someone big like Nokia to get the ball rolling
20:22.30konttoriOh, you meant like market players ;)
20:22.34Milhouse2kontorri - checking...
20:23.16Milhouse2two players pushing inductive coupling technology - but it will need a big device supplier to get their wares into the market and get it noticed
20:23.41Milhouse2then everyone will say "hey wow, this is really cool... why aren't Motorola offering this?"
20:23.57konttoriI think Nokia follows it's previous market strategy to not to be the first in the trenches. They do take part in designing stuff, in the standards comities, but they seldom try something as a market first
20:23.57Milhouse2etc.
20:24.11Milhouse2Internet Tablets?
20:24.27konttoriBut yea, maybe they could try out the water with some luxury model.
20:24.51Sulisiternet tablets are more of a fork than something new
20:24.55konttoriI still have problem understanding that nokia actually made the internet tablets
20:25.10Milhouse2I actually meant they were first in the trenches with the Internet Tablets, however I suppose you might mean they fear backing the wrong technology (ie. backing Betamax and the world backs VHS)
20:27.06konttoriWell, I mean that they didn't endorse the clam phone model until everyone was doing it, they didn't go for thin models until everyone was doing it and so on.
20:31.08i-nZhas someone ever tried those laser projection keyboards?
20:31.26Milhouse2some people have... they seem to work ok with 770/n800
20:31.40konttoriI've heard that they don't work at all
20:31.41i-nZI guess they work *only* on flat surface
20:32.01konttoriand even the it's one finger at a time tapping.
20:32.09roopeHm.
20:32.19konttoriFrom what I've understood, it's a nice concept but doesn't work yet
20:32.22roopeI've tried laser projection keyboards. They're not really good, frankly.
20:32.31i-nZmkey
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20:32.41i-nZunfortunatly BT kbs are quite expensive
20:32.42i-nZ:
20:32.43i-nZ:/
20:32.46Milhouse2not so hot on glass tables - probably wouldn't work so well on the Microsoft Surface... ;)
20:32.46roopeTry tapping on your table surface for five minutes, you'll feel the problem. :)
20:32.55konttorijust buy a foldable kb. they are probably 100$
20:33.12roopePlus there is the problem of having to lift up your finger after each stroke.
20:33.32roopePeople learn to type things like ee without lifting your finger. the laser keyboard sees "e", not "ee".
20:34.23roopeSurface is kind of interesting. It's mostly exactly like seen a year or so ago already, but there's some new concepts.
20:34.27konttoriroope: did you already have a look at the ukmp video? I would love to hear some comments / critic from you.
20:34.34roopeRelating to putting  your device on there and interacting with it.
20:34.54roopelet's see. :)
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20:35.08konttorihttp://konttoristhoughts.blogspot.com/2007/05/ukmp-10-outhttpwwwbloggercomimggllinkgi.html
20:35.23Sulisi don't like the idea that the surface has to use a camera...it just seems...nasty
20:35.45konttoriSulis: is MS surface using a cam?
20:35.57Sulisyeah
20:36.22roopeAlmost all of the multitouch solutions are using a cam.
20:36.25i-nZtalking about keyboards, is there a word processor I can use if I get one ?
20:36.27i-nZ:)
20:36.28konttoriat least the iphone implementation was based on a pressure layer that interacts with light coming from the sides. I wondr why surface isn't using something like that
20:36.31roopeBig screen ones, that is.
20:36.48sp3000konttori: outhttpwwwbloggercomimggllinkgi? heh
20:36.56konttoriYeah, that's probably cost effective
20:37.09konttoriyeah. I know. I messed up the post
20:37.28Aleksandyrkonttori: patents. :)
20:37.29konttoriAnd can't fix it anymore. Posted it too many times. I didn't notice that at first
20:37.42konttoritrue
20:38.30roopekonttori: i think that's the nicest media player in maemo currently. :) Canola may have a bit more eyecandy, but it's also slower to use.
20:38.54konttoriReally? do you think so?
20:39.00k-s[WORK]roope: yes, ukmp is simpler
20:39.00roopewas there any playlist functions there? or did you plan some? enqueue some albums up?
20:39.25roopeof course yours relies quite heavily on like full albums... with album art.
20:39.26k-s[WORK]konttori: you should do some tricks to make it load faster
20:39.33konttoriI was planning to add 'partylist' first (enque) and then add playlists.
20:39.35roopeI have quite much media with improper metadata and possibly no album art.
20:39.35k-s[WORK]konttori: or at least "make believe"
20:39.40Suliscanola keeps scanning my music, and that slows my n800 to a crawl
20:39.41roopeI'm not quite sure how you deal with those.
20:39.56konttoriIt loads album art from the internet
20:39.59k-s[WORK]konttori: in canola, we do init sdl before any other thing
20:40.07konttoriIt doesn't use the id tags album art
20:40.09k-s[WORK]Sulis: ?
20:40.19k-s[WORK]Sulis: it shouldn't "keep scanning"
20:40.27k-s[WORK]Sulis: what's your use case?
20:40.34Aleksandyrkonttori: what does it use for a storage backend?
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20:40.52konttoriIt loads all id tags always on startup
20:40.58konttoriSo, it uses internal tables ;)
20:41.05Suliswell it scans every now and then, and every time i turn it on, but i have quite a lot of music and it takes a long time to scan it
20:41.09konttoriImages are cached to mmc
20:41.27k-s[WORK]Sulis: there are some gconf parameters you can play with
20:41.35Sulisoh?
20:41.54k-s[WORK]Sulis: get gconf-editor and go to /apps/canola-conf
20:41.59konttorik-s[WORK]: It's only slow on the first load, when it loads the images from the net. Subsequent loads are quite fast
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20:42.17Sulisk-s[WORK]: i have that already, will look
20:42.18k-s[WORK]konttori: no, I mean, make SDL window appears as soon as possible
20:42.32roopekonttori: also that mechanism of list item selection by dragging and releasing is very nice.
20:42.45k-s[WORK]konttori: for example, canola loads its plugins just after the initial splash is shown
20:42.48konttorik-s[WORK]: Oh! Well, I'll have a look at the ordering of the init code. thanks for the tip!
20:43.00k-s[WORK]konttori: make it start "fast"
20:43.09k-s[WORK]konttori: :-)
20:43.40k-s[WORK]konttori: btw, thank you to showcase what I keep saying here: python is just good to do this "control" kind of stuff
20:43.54konttoriroope: thanks! I think it's the only way to be able to access smallish segments of the screen with using a finger.
20:44.06Sulisk-s[WORK]: i see what collection-autoscan does, but what would inital_scanner_delay do?
20:44.13k-s[WORK]bit bang is in C anyway... no need to count references by hand like we had to do with canola! :-(
20:44.19konttoriYeah, I absolutely love python. It's really ideal for frontend apps.
20:44.39k-s[WORK]Sulis: how many seconds to wait before auto-scan, AFAIR you can make it negative to never auto-scan
20:45.14k-s[WORK]konttori: I wrote python bindings for EFL, much easier to work with than SDL
20:45.15Sulisah, but unsetting collection_autoscan will do that just as well
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20:45.46k-s[WORK]konttori: now I'm optimizing Evas to run as fast as raw SDL on device... then we can rewrite our apps to use it, I'll keep you informed
20:46.21k-s[WORK]Sulis: probably... I don't look at that code for some time... :-P
20:46.23konttoriSo, where can I read about the benefits of EFL vs SDL?
20:46.33k-s[WORK]konttori: www.enlightenment.org
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20:46.48k-s[WORK]konttori: special interest for us "eye-candy" apps is use of Edje as theme system
20:46.49konttoriI must admit that I've had not probs with SDL. It's nice to use and fast.
20:47.16Sulisk-s[WORK]: hehe, well i'll try it and see what happens
20:47.17k-s[WORK]konttori: it keep track of what changed (pygame.sprite.Group like)
20:47.37roopekonttori: well, perhaps not the _only_ way, but one very nice way. :)
20:47.58k-s[WORK]Sulis: you can also use canola-applet and stop scanning when you want, or write your own dbus-send script
20:48.35konttoriroope: True. Of course there are other possibilities starting with mouse cursor.
20:48.35Sulisk-s[WORK]: yeah, i'm thinking that's a good idea
20:49.00Suliskonttori: does your player make up a readable database of music and id3 tags?
20:49.12k-s[WORK]Sulis: you can also stop using web-ui, so any HTTP GET request can do it as well
20:49.19konttoriSulis: nope. It doesn't store them in any way
20:49.45konttorik-s[WORK]: EFL does look really nice. Thanks for the info. Looks interesting.
20:50.52konttoriSulis: Future versions will probably have to use some better form of storage. Maybe sqlite.
20:51.06Aleksandyrentirely off topic: is there some way to bind on to wlan0 getting an IP address?
20:51.10Sulisk-s[WORK]: any HTTP GET request can update the db?
20:51.19Sulisor stop updating the db?
20:51.21Aleksandyr*very easy way that I could put into a shell script.
20:51.46k-s[WORK]Sulis: sure!
20:52.02k-s[WORK]konttori: http://barbieri-playground.googlecode.com/svn/efl-tests/
20:52.40k-s[WORK]konttori: it's in C so far... but you can get my python-bindings (at enlightenment.org CVS, under e17/proto/python-efl) and do the same
20:52.58k-s[WORK]konttori: I also have a project at garage to provide ARMEL binaries as soon as I get reasonable performance
20:53.35konttoriWas MDK:s work using EFL? The video that had some nice GFX ?
20:53.55k-s[WORK]Sulis: canola web-ui is basically AJAX, so you can find out all the URLs and methods to request this
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20:54.16k-s[WORK]konttori: no, his "graffi" (or something like this) is another thing, I've not seen any code yet
20:54.27konttorik-s[WORK]: Makes sense to wait until optimized far enough. Will they be big libs? As in total filesize and memory footprint.
20:54.44k-s[WORK]konttori: evas is really fast on PC... but it's 32bpp internally and need to do the conversion, I'm working on this...
20:54.46konttorik-s[WORK]: Oh, so it's nokia internal thing. Looked interesting though
20:55.05k-s[WORK]konttori: no, whole lib set is under 1mb (uncompressed disk size)
20:55.15k-s[WORK]konttori: yes, mdk work seems nice
20:55.23Sulisk-s[WORK]: ah, i might look at that then...
20:55.32konttoriso, that includes edje and etk and other stuff as well?
20:55.47k-s[WORK]konttori: EFL have good code to load images, it's possible to load already doing scale... for image thumbnails
20:55.58konttorireally nice!
20:56.02k-s[WORK]konttori: just edje, no etk as I don't plan to use it
20:56.13Sulisk-s[WORK]: does canola store it's db in a way that i can read it? sqlite or something?
20:56.14konttoriok. makes sense.
20:56.15k-s[WORK]etk is not big by itself, but its themes may add some footprint
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20:56.31konttoriisn't canola using sqlite?
20:56.36k-s[WORK]Sulis: sqlite, under /home/user/.canola/canola.db
20:57.30k-s[WORK]konttori: great thing with etk is that you can embed that gtk-like UI inside your beauty app, with effects... so your form just fade-in/out, or slide, without problem
20:57.33Sulishmmm, i'm just wondering if i could use that to do something else that i've been looking to do
20:57.41k-s[WORK]Sulis: what?
20:58.19Suliswell i want to have something that will sync the music that i want from my main computer onto my n800 over the network
20:58.40k-s[WORK]Sulis: fine
20:58.53etrunkorb does that... :(
20:58.56konttorik-s[WORK]: really? nice. is it hard to convert gtk forms to etk?
20:59.18k-s[WORK]Sulis: canola-conf will process and execute any query that is stored on /media/mmc1/.canola.db, backlog table
20:59.31k-s[WORK]konttori: no! it actually loads GLADE :-P
20:59.35konttoriSulis: you mean like a upnp?
20:59.46konttoricool!
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20:59.59Suliskonttori: no, not like a upnp
21:00.19etrunko:wa
21:00.23etrunkodamn
21:00.37konttoriupnp can also send / receive music files (not only stream them).
21:00.39etrunkotime to go home
21:00.54Sulishmm, really
21:01.50chencaSulis: are you thinking in some kind of rsync to media files?
21:02.20k-s[WORK]Sulis: if you want to use via USB instead of network, you can just write SQL queries in "backlog" table and they'll be executed in order
21:02.57k-s[WORK]Sulis: otherwise you can use rsync, upnp or something else... hardly anything will beat rsync in performance, but you still need to trigger rescan
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21:03.21konttorik-s[WORK]: Did you read this? http://www.vergenet.net/~raster/
21:03.26k-s[WORK]Sulis: I provide some scripts with canola-conf, they are prefixed with (guess what) canola-conf :-P
21:03.39konttoriLooks like it's hard to optimize for 16 bit.
21:03.41Sulisk-s[WORK]: yeah, i've noticed them
21:03.58k-s[WORK]konttori: sure, I'm talking with raster... on a daily basis :-)
21:04.08k-s[WORK]konttori: we're trying to get the man working here at INdT
21:04.16N800konttori, x, y is not use...
21:04.18konttoriDoes he live around?
21:04.28N800i think they go by bounds...not sure what this is..
21:04.42k-s[WORK]konttori: no, he lives in Japan today
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21:04.58konttoriAll right! Interesting!
21:05.13Suliswhat i really want to do it have a database of everything all the music on my main computer on my n800 and vice versa, so i can just select what i want to transfer the next time they're on the network together
21:05.47N800don't think the nick N800 is a good idea..
21:05.52k-s[WORK]ah, ok
21:05.57N800xchat glows when someone says n800
21:05.58N800lol
21:06.16N800konttori this is unique311
21:06.22N800i pm'ed you
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21:23.08mk8Hi to all ...
21:23.19Sulishi to one
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22:02.56guardianmaemo.org down ?
22:03.06i-nZjust veery slow
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22:03.24guardiani'm reaaaaaly far from the server then :D
22:08.18b0unc3hmm.. is just a week that I uploaded a deb to the maemo repo... still does not appear in the app manager... very strange...
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