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| 01:06.20 | unique311 | hello |
| 01:10.19 | unique311 | zso you use ikvm from within mono? |
| 01:10.21 | unique311 | wtf |
| 01:10.26 | unique311 | this thing is killing me |
| 01:10.28 | unique311 | softly |
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| 04:25.43 | Prez_ | hello |
| 04:26.30 | Prez_ | is there an n800 channel not for developers, i mostly have usability questions, like, how to sync files between my minux laptop and n800 using bluetooth, |
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| 04:42.07 | keesj | Prez_: not really |
| 04:42.30 | keesj | welcome anyway, there is a user mailing list , |
| 04:43.41 | keesj | what is also the internet tablet talk forum. but if you use a linux labtop I guess that here is the place to get some help |
| 04:44.28 | keesj | only I don't know anything about syncing with other than rsync |
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| 05:09.15 | trevarthan | xournal is awesome. so much better than maemopad+. i finally found a working copy of it for the n800 too. yay for not having to code it myself! |
| 05:12.35 | trevarthan | got my n800 back up to speed after that crash earlier today too. took about 5 hours to flash and reinstall all my applications. ugh. hope that doesn't happen again. |
| 05:13.12 | trevarthan | anyone know how to make a usb backup of the flash image? |
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| 07:19.41 | tigert | my xournal didnt draw anythign on screen |
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| 08:19.24 | AD-N770 | good morning |
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| 08:38.52 | mk8 | Hi to all ... |
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| 08:53.39 | Jaffa | morning, all |
| 08:54.44 | melmoth_n800 | i really dislkethe feeling of this blueeetoth keyboardddd |
| 08:55.30 | melmoth_n800 | isthe reaction time always sllow with bt keyboard,,,? |
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| 09:39.30 | Mithrandir | is there a reason why libhildon is called libhildon-1.so.0 rather than just libhildon.so.1 ? |
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| 09:52.33 | mattsqz | what is this nonsense.. |
| 09:52.46 | mattsqz | cp: cannot stat `/media/sda2/etc/ld.so.conf': Input/output error |
| 09:52.46 | mattsqz | cp: cannot stat `/media/sda2/home/user/.kde': Input/output error |
| 09:52.46 | mattsqz | cp: cannot stat `/media/sda2/home/user/.kderc': Input/output error |
| 09:52.46 | mattsqz | cp: cannot stat `/media/sda2/usr/local/share/man/man3': Input/output error |
| 09:54.23 | inz | matt, dmesg probably tells you more |
| 10:01.42 | mattsqz | brb |
| 10:07.28 | tigert | media/sda2?? |
| 10:07.42 | tigert | a memory card named "sda2"? |
| 10:08.36 | keesj | yea! what device are you using? |
| 10:08.56 | nomis | well, its just the mountpoint... |
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| 10:19.17 | b0unc3 | good morning |
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| 11:26.38 | drega | the article on how to use x11vnc to 'drive' the n800 from a pc is missing from the wiki. |
| 11:26.56 | drega | anyone seen or know were a copy of it might be? |
| 11:28.22 | dpb_ | was it in the old wiki? |
| 11:29.32 | dpb_ | apparently |
| 11:29.35 | dpb_ | http://test.maemo.org/maemowiki/How_to_use_x11vnc_to_'drive'_the_N800_from_a_PC |
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| 11:37.05 | pulsar_ | hi |
| 11:37.55 | pulsar_ | any d devs around? i wonder if anybody has managed to get the dgcc/gdc frontend working for maemo |
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| 12:17.36 | guardian | anyone ever tried to compile istanbul on maemo ??? http://live.gnome.org/Istanbul |
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| 12:59.41 | melmoth | I m playing with the hildon filechooser widget in pygtk..I can select a file, but i don not understand how to change the device so its point to a memory card |
| 12:59.45 | melmoth | any idea ? |
| 13:00.29 | Juhaz | "change the device"? the location the dialog is by when it opens? |
| 13:02.21 | melmoth | not the default (not now :) ) |
| 13:02.38 | melmoth | by defaut i have the "n800" device |
| 13:02.54 | melmoth | and i was expecting the widget to cope with a click on it, and show me the memory card available |
| 13:02.58 | melmoth | on its own |
| 13:03.03 | melmoth | and well... it does not |
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| 13:10.47 | i-nZ | Hello. Where can I get a list of all available sources for nokia n800 ? |
| 13:12.08 | Okko | i-nZ: From the Internet |
| 13:12.34 | ||cw | i-nZ: I odn't think that's possible as anyone can make a source. most are listed wiht the apps in the application catalog on the wiki though |
| 13:13.00 | i-nZ | well I just added some "Extras" source when the installation asked if i want to |
| 13:13.07 | i-nZ | so i thought there are unofficial-official repositories |
| 13:13.31 | Okko | there are but anyone can make them |
| 13:13.31 | i-nZ | e.g I wanted to install evince but it complained about libglade |
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| 13:25.56 | inz | i-nZ, nice nick ;) |
| 13:28.03 | i-nZ | inz: :D |
| 13:28.09 | i-nZ | mine is based on my name ;) |
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| 13:30.02 | inz | i-nZ, mine has evolved past that ;) |
| 13:31.27 | i-nZ | anyway I just got my n800 today and I am still surfing around to figure out what are the information sources |
| 13:31.53 | i-nZ | next step will be to setup a dev env :) |
| 13:33.51 | melmoth | Juhaz: i have postes a small testcase on maemo-developer that sort of show what i dont understand |
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| 13:50.11 | Juhaz | melmoth, ok, don't have a device here right now, but I'll take a look when I get home. |
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| 13:52.20 | konttori | Sweet: http://www.yle.fi/uutiset/kotimaa/id61019.html |
| 13:52.46 | konttori | (only for finnish people) |
| 13:53.17 | konttori | Basically says that it's now legal in finland to make programs that remove CSS from dvds. |
| 13:53.28 | MoRpHeUz | =) |
| 13:53.46 | konttori | So, stay tuned for a dvd ripping enabled version of media converter this weekend ;) |
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| 13:59.16 | pulsar_ | wooohooo! that was easy! http://turrican.renoise.com/pulsar/pics/helloglade.png |
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| 14:01.12 | sciboy | Hehe |
| 14:01.40 | pulsar_ | mono-develop is a pain in the ass btw. royale. |
| 14:04.20 | sciboy | It's being a similar pain in the ass trying to get a N800 in australia. |
| 14:04.45 | pulsar_ | is it? i got mine from amazon |
| 14:05.17 | sciboy | Nice, |
| 14:06.00 | pulsar_ | i am thinking about writing a nice podcatcher client. gpodder does not suit me. |
| 14:06.26 | sciboy | Yeah? Anything in particular that gPodder doesn't do? |
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| 14:06.35 | pulsar_ | yep. beeing snappy :) |
| 14:06.50 | pulsar_ | i dont know why, but the current port is fu*** slow |
| 14:07.11 | pulsar_ | takes about one minute to start i.e. |
| 14:07.25 | pulsar_ | and uses 100% cpu when downloading podcasts. |
| 14:07.58 | pulsar_ | castget is a nice tool though |
| 14:08.23 | pulsar_ | x-compiled it some time ago. actually it works pretty well. |
| 14:10.04 | guardian | browsing the bugzilla is depressing :( instead of getting bug fixed, you can follow the bug bouncing from one people to another: "reassigned to jp" -> "reassigned to mika" -> "reassigned back to jp" -> NO U ! :((((( |
| 14:11.20 | keesj | :P |
| 14:12.48 | sciboy | =/ |
| 14:13.51 | mgedmin | bugball! |
| 14:20.36 | ||cw | I've had that happen to me, someone either thinks I'm supposed to, or even am capable, of fixing a bug that i'm neither |
| 14:22.33 | guardian | pddd |
| 14:22.35 | guardian | this is shameful |
| 14:22.35 | guardian | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1300 |
| 14:23.01 | guardian | dispute about who has the bigger dick, the one who wins marks the bug as fixed :) |
| 14:23.46 | bilboed | don't forget to attach a picture of proof |
| 14:23.50 | bilboed | :) |
| 14:24.06 | guardian | haha |
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| 14:24.13 | guardian | ok enough for today |
| 14:24.17 | guardian | switching to other dev project |
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| 14:27.37 | guardian | really i expected something more professional from nokia |
| 14:28.39 | guardian | all i saw was "maemo qa claiming ownership", "bugball bouncing from on people to another", and people arguing who in the hierarchy can decide if a bug is fixed or not |
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| 14:33.12 | tigert | ? |
| 14:33.45 | `0660 | i think it's brave from nokia to handle all that in the public bugzilla :) |
| 14:34.16 | `0660 | the other option would be to keep it inside the company, but that would not be so open |
| 14:36.32 | guardian | sometimes it takes time to fix bugs, so far so good. it's just a pity when the whole process is slowed down by somehow off topic quarrels |
| 14:37.00 | tigert | guardian: "qa claiming ownership" sounds like it gets sucked in the internal bugzilla and gets worked on |
| 14:37.14 | tigert | I know it sucks to then disappear from the outside view |
| 14:37.17 | tigert | and we try to fix that |
| 14:37.19 | ||cw | Xandros does that, they have the public bug tracker and an internal one. when someone opens a bug, they validated it them open a bug on the internal that the end user can't see. when the internal is fixed, the public is closes as well. |
| 14:37.29 | tigert | but there's so darn many things to fix that it is not easy or fast |
| 14:37.33 | X-Fade | guardian: This bug is actively worked on, as fas as I know.. |
| 14:38.00 | tigert | guardian: this website thing is something quim is trying to fix all the time |
| 14:38.03 | guardian | i don't doubt it's actively worked on |
| 14:38.04 | Okko | who's the Oskari they are talking about? :) |
| 14:38.15 | guardian | it's just demonstrate unprofessional handling |
| 14:38.17 | X-Fade | I'm sure Quim doesn't allow sucky/broken documentation to stay there long.. |
| 14:38.18 | guardian | +s |
| 14:38.23 | tigert | its just a a lot of issues popping up all over the place |
| 14:38.50 | guardian | the result being my little person being frustrated :D but i'm sure i'm not the only one in this case |
| 14:38.57 | tigert | because theres the whole lot of content that is converted first and then you see it didnt work here or there? |
| 14:39.19 | tigert | and thus a crapload of things to fix :) |
| 14:39.53 | tigert | guardian: well, do you want things to be more open or not? |
| 14:40.00 | tigert | guardian: look at gnome bugzilla for example |
| 14:40.05 | tigert | stuff like this does happen there |
| 14:40.40 | tigert | its human communication. sure, it could be handled face to face maybe |
| 14:41.06 | guardian | i won't pretend i know the perfect solution |
| 14:41.20 | tigert | yeah |
| 14:41.22 | guardian | if the internal bugzilla and the public one are really synchronized i have nothing against that |
| 14:41.32 | X-Fade | guardian: You have to understand that there are a few different parties at play here. Documention writers, website admin, internal qa, document manager,external consultants.. |
| 14:41.38 | guardian | i'm tempted to believe it's a huge task to achieve |
| 14:41.39 | tigert | its just that if you have more transparency in the process, also the times when people are unhappy will show |
| 14:41.59 | tigert | X-Fade: yeah |
| 14:42.03 | tigert | that is what makes things complicated |
| 14:42.19 | guardian | not to mention PGP ;) |
| 14:42.23 | tigert | there are not just the guy who writes docs, the guy who maintains the web, the guy who does testing |
| 14:42.26 | tigert | but teams of people doing that |
| 14:42.34 | tigert | each having their good and bad days I suppose |
| 14:42.38 | guardian | true |
| 14:42.41 | X-Fade | You just can't go in and fix things directly. Somebody has to sign off on it etc etc.. |
| 14:43.10 | tigert | and thus things sometimes happen that team A has a deadline and team B does not know something they should and do things that pull rug from under team A's feet |
| 14:43.12 | tigert | or something |
| 14:43.17 | tigert | its just a big mess to deal with |
| 14:44.08 | tigert | its moving ahead and we have more thinking of the community also inside etc |
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| 14:44.25 | tigert | like plankton is going to be in the sdk theme etc |
| 14:44.44 | tigert | and we try to use sardine ourselves too etc |
| 14:44.52 | tigert | to hack on the same dogfood we give to you :) |
| 14:45.04 | tigert | but its so many things sometimes I just want to curl down and sleep =) |
| 14:45.22 | tigert | when I make the mistake of looking at the big picture of "nokia and community" :) |
| 14:52.06 | guardian | thx for bothering explaining the situation |
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| 15:10.42 | stuaart | Hello |
| 15:12.22 | stuaart | Anyone here have any experience using gpsd? |
| 15:12.52 | stuaart | I'm struggling to work out how to change the baud rate |
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| 15:41.08 | trevarthan | Hello. Can anyone tell me how to make a backup of my currently running firmware via USB flasher? |
| 15:41.56 | trevarthan | It would make me feel better if I had an entire image to restore to. It took me 5 hours to reinstall all of my applications last night after I got the white screen of death. |
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| 15:55.19 | part | trevarthan: don't know any way to access the data via usb when the device doesn't boot |
| 15:56.29 | nomis | trevarthan: I suspect that Nokia has no interest in making the image data available via USB. |
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| 16:14.09 | melmoth | bel orage |
| 16:14.10 | melmoth | oups |
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| 16:53.33 | Juhaz | melmoth, it looks like it's a "feature" of CREATE_FOLDER mode, it won't allow navigation by user, only creation of subdirectory in the preselected one. |
| 16:56.39 | melmoth | mhh, i must admit i havent try with NEW_FOLDER ... |
| 16:56.45 | melmoth | i ll try that |
| 16:57.37 | melmoth | but the thing is..i would really like to be sure this is a new folder.. I guess i can check its content afterward though, and act if therea re other files in it already |
| 17:01.11 | melmoth | works bette with SELECT_FOLDER indeed |
| 17:01.21 | melmoth | thanks ! |
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| 17:11.46 | Skyrazer | hello |
| 17:17.27 | Skyrazer | i could need some help on installing phonelink |
| 17:17.45 | Skyrazer | so i installed libgnokii, but i cant find the binary.. where should it be? |
| 17:18.13 | Skyrazer | i'm using os2006 and libgnokii2 |
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| 17:31.00 | melunko_ | Hello there, anyone knows if there are any vnc server to N800? |
| 17:32.34 | Skyrazer | yes there are |
| 17:33.07 | Skyrazer | here: http://mike.saunby.googlepages.com/x11vncfornokia7702 |
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| 17:34.57 | melunko_ | Skyrazer: thanks |
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| 17:36.35 | b0unc3 | hello |
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| 17:41.20 | mk8 | Hi to all .. |
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| 17:43.59 | Skyrazer | ok, gbye |
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| 19:27.16 | trevarthan | Hmmmm... seems like if you can flash to the RAM, you should be able to pull from the RAM too using the flasher. Is that impossible? |
| 19:31.51 | Juhaz | it might be possible but "you can do it the other way around" is no reason to assume that. and it's not RAM |
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| 19:39.26 | trevarthan | Juhaz: Oh yeah? It's not random access memory? |
| 19:41.48 | trevarthan | Can someone from Nokia please tell me if it's possible to download a flash ram image from the n800 to some other medium? Simple yes or no will be fine. Thank you! |
| 19:45.24 | Sulis | i was wondering if the button on the mic part of the headphones actually controls anything, i see that it is registered as XF86Phone |
| 19:45.26 | Disconnect | trevarthan: misusing terms and then getting picky with the people helping you is a good way to get them to wander off |
| 19:49.01 | trevarthan | Disconnect: he wasn't helping. Nothing he said was intended to be useful in any way. |
| 19:49.43 | trevarthan | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_access_memory |
| 19:50.20 | Disconnect | actually, looked like he was trying to help from here. but since you've taken mindreading 101 and can speak on his intent with such authority, i'll bow to your superior whining and wander off myself.. |
| 19:50.54 | `0660 | :P |
| 19:51.04 | trevarthan | Disconnect: I'm just trying to get an answer to a question. Sorry to bother you. |
| 19:51.26 | Juhaz | no, it's not random access memory, since it's nand flash and is limited to block addressing |
| 19:52.04 | nomis | trevarthan: I still firmly believe that Nokia installed all kinds of bells and whistles to make this basically impossible. |
| 19:52.14 | nomis | trevarthan: you probably need to use JTAG to get a dump from the flash. |
| 19:53.26 | trevarthan | nomis: I believe you. I would just like to hear someone from Nokia say it. That's all I want. Something definitive. |
| 19:53.34 | nomis | trevarthan: then ask Nokia. |
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| 19:54.07 | trevarthan | nomis: I thought that was what I was doing. They don't have a presence here? |
| 19:54.45 | `0660 | i don't think they have official presence here |
| 19:54.52 | nomis | trevarthan: there are some Nokia Employees here, but no official presence, no. |
| 19:55.11 | `0660 | in other words, if you want answers here, you will have to be polite |
| 19:55.32 | trevarthan | I'd be satisfied with the word of an employee, so long as he knows what he's talking about. I'm not sure I know what "official" means. |
| 19:56.28 | trevarthan | `0660: look, I'm sorry if you all don't think I'm being polite. I thought Juhaz was taking an obvious snipe at me. I still do. I responded accordingly. |
| 19:56.52 | `0660 | in this context it would mean that they would be forced to act polite to everyone |
| 19:57.02 | ferulo | peeeaaaace :) |
| 19:57.05 | Juhaz | tigert is probably the most active nokia employee here and I doubt he knows about that either, being a GUI guy |
| 19:57.56 | ferulo | trevarthan: if this helps, I have never listened anything about RAM dumps |
| 19:58.05 | trevarthan | Juhaz: ok. I'll stop asking if no one knows. fair enough. I hope you can't blame me for persistence. |
| 19:58.42 | Disconnect | fyi many (most? and istr including the 770/800) embedded linux boxes can use the flasher to dump to/from RAM, for testing kernels or as a 2-stage flash method, etc. so - regardless of what you want to say about the definition of "access" - talking about dumping RAM is going to be confusing at best. |
| 19:59.07 | Sulis | and does anyone know if there are any hildonisations for python? |
| 19:59.38 | ferulo | Sulis: hildonisations? |
| 20:00.10 | trevarthan | Disconnect: I'm not sure whether you just said that "yes, you can download a flash image from an n800", or "no, you can't". Could you clarify? |
| 20:00.16 | Sulis | yep, so that you can hildonise a python gui |
| 20:00.27 | ferulo | yeah Sulis you have python-hildon module |
| 20:00.34 | Sulis | excellent |
| 20:00.36 | Sulis | thanks |
| 20:00.41 | ferulo | so you can create a hildon.window and so on |
| 20:00.46 | Sulis | right |
| 20:01.16 | Sulis | i guess i should look for some documentation on this... |
| 20:01.35 | Disconnect | trevarthan: i said "in most embedded applications, RAM and flash are not interchangable terms. especially relating to reading/writing data from the host". as far as what you can do on the nokia boxes (without soldering, presumably, and without a working OS) its pretty much limited to whatever flasher will do. so type ./flasher and see.. but if its not there, its unlikely to be possible. |
| 20:01.39 | `0660 | trevarthan, i think you would already have got the answer if it was that simple |
| 20:02.11 | ferulo | Sulis: yup, it's on pymaemo.garage.maemo.org |
| 20:03.04 | Sulis | ah, that's great, thanks |
| 20:05.56 | trevarthan | `0660: I don't know. I can't count the number of times I've asked questions for days straight before getting an answer. Persistence might be annoying, but it's useful. Sometimes the right people just aren't listening and so you can't be sure if you don't continue to ask. I am sorry for annoying everyone though. That's an unfortunate side effect. |
| 20:06.22 | tigert | Juhaz: yea, you are correct. I have no clue |
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| 20:06.42 | tigert | Juhaz: I bet daniels would know, if he doesnt tell when asked, then the information is not public |
| 20:06.58 | tigert | we do have people on the channel from Nokia, there are things we can talk about and things we can not talk about |
| 20:07.16 | tigert | there is no mystery to it - we'll just say its something we cannot comment on |
| 20:07.29 | trevarthan | tigert: is this one of those things you can't talk about? |
| 20:07.38 | tigert | the flash stuff? |
| 20:07.42 | trevarthan | Yeah. |
| 20:07.43 | tigert | I just simply have no clue about that |
| 20:07.51 | tigert | I do UI and pretty pixels |
| 20:07.55 | trevarthan | Is there anyone you could ask about it for me? |
| 20:08.54 | trevarthan | someone who deals with the hardware or the boot loader would probably know. |
| 20:09.07 | ||cw | trevarthan: the linux flasher si a shell script isn't it? |
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| 20:09.23 | Juhaz | it's not |
| 20:09.39 | nomis | trevarthan: you know, you could also use the Mailinglist. Lots of Nokians read the Mailinglist and it is more likely to get the question delivered to a knowing person. |
| 20:09.44 | ||cw | hm, thought it was, not sure why i thought that |
| 20:09.59 | nomis | that would be a better option than knowingly annoying people in here. |
| 20:10.17 | Juhaz | if you're only interested in installed applications, rootfs should be all you need, and dumping that shouldn't be hard, since it's obviously mounted on the device and fully readable from userspace... "through usb" part might still not be possible, but if you have a working OS and can use memory card or network, ... |
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| 20:11.16 | trevarthan | Juhaz: that's a good point. I could always treat it like any other linux machine and use cpio to copy the file system. |
| 20:11.23 | `0660 | annoying people tactic seems to work pretty good too ;) |
| 20:11.31 | Juhaz | you could probably dump even most of the rest through /dev/mtd* with a working OS, but getting it back would be another story entirely, since the flasher expects a specific format, which probably isn't a raw dump. |
| 20:11.38 | ||cw | trevarthan: http://www.nopcode.org/0xFFFF/?p=docu&q=usage |
| 20:12.45 | trevarthan | ||cw: Wow. Does that do what I think it does? |
| 20:13.04 | ||cw | it says it does what I think you want |
| 20:13.18 | trevarthan | ||cw: I'll have to take a look at that tonight! Many thanks! |
| 20:13.57 | tigert | trevarthan: ask daniel |
| 20:14.38 | trevarthan | `0660: I like to call it "communication". It's getting people's attention that can be difficult. |
| 20:15.09 | tigert | trevarthan: well, since the flasher is not free software, I guess there is a reason for this |
| 20:15.38 | tigert | probably the low level stuff is considered proprietary or such - I dunno. |
| 20:15.40 | ||cw | Juhaz: right, it's a "Fiasco" package, but 0xFFFF can restore just certain pieces |
| 20:15.40 | `0660 | i think there are better ways to reach goals |
| 20:16.07 | tigert | but yeah |
| 20:16.33 | tigert | we are not bad people |
| 20:16.48 | `0660 | you could have just made a search with "flasher" on http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/ |
| 20:16.54 | tigert | its just that many of us are busy, its hard to irc from work, and not everyone wants to hang around here after work hours :) |
| 20:17.19 | ||cw | or on the maemo wiki |
| 20:20.18 | trevarthan | tigert: yeah, that's why I asked a lot. Wanted to make sure it got exposure. |
| 20:20.18 | tigert | yeah |
| 20:20.26 | tigert | the wiki has most of this too |
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| 20:21.41 | trevarthan | `0660: It's too bad you can't Mute someone like on Xbox Live. :) That would probably be useful. |
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| 20:25.42 | `0660 | trevarthan, don't know about xbox live, but there's always /ignore, i just prefer education over suppression :) |
| 20:26.55 | tigert | <PROTECTED> |
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| 20:31.37 | Mithrandir | also, if you have @ you can mute people. :-P |
| 20:33.09 | trevarthan | Ah. Good to know. I knew I could get kicked. hopefully I won't get muted or ignored. |
| 20:39.24 | `0660 | trevarthan, you hope you don't get ignored? :) |
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| 20:47.54 | unique311 | APPLE IIgs experience in here |
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| 21:56.18 | greentux | are there modest packages for testing around? |
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| 22:22.26 | tigert | trevarthan: no worries, we are nice folks :) |
| 22:22.28 | tigert | hmm |
| 22:22.48 | tigert | http://tigert.1g.fi/kuvat/Laivat/2007-05-25-nordlandia-rosella/ < something completely different and offtopic :) |
| 22:23.55 | Sulis | hmm, boats and planes |
| 22:23.59 | tigert | yeah |
| 22:24.05 | tigert | the weather was nice tonight |
| 22:24.14 | tigert | I warned, its totally off topic :) |
| 22:24.40 | Sulis | hehe |
| 22:25.37 | Sulis | you took those tonight? |
| 22:25.37 | tigert | yeah |
| 22:25.52 | Sulis | some of them are really nice |
| 22:25.59 | tigert | yeah, the light was pretty nice |
| 22:27.05 | Sulis | yeah, it looks lovely |
| 22:28.48 | Sulis | i keep encountering the finnish language now, and so i want to learn it |
| 22:29.57 | tigert | :) |
| 22:30.28 | Sulis | heh, but it seems that every finn that i meet speaks perfect english |
| 22:30.38 | tigert | writes on irc at least :) |
| 22:31.01 | tigert | but yeah, considering we learn it from 3rd grade, it would be weird if we didnt know it at all :) |
| 22:31.32 | tigert | plus all the US tv series run on our TV as well |
| 22:31.34 | zeenix | Sulis: you haven't met the taxi drivers in finland? |
| 22:31.43 | tigert | zeenix: haha |
| 22:31.50 | Sulis | zeenix: no, i haven't |
| 22:32.42 | Sulis | heh, there there is very rarely any language other than english on english tv... :( |
| 22:32.48 | zeenix | Sulis: and you haven't come across the type who would seem very rude but then it turns out that they just didn't have the confidence to say 'hello' in english? :) |
| 22:33.05 | tigert | zeenix: yeah, thats unfortunate |
| 22:33.13 | tigert | but that exists |
| 22:33.17 | tigert | finns are shy to speak in english |
| 22:33.36 | Sulis | but that's fear of making a fool of yourself |
| 22:33.44 | tigert | yeah |
| 22:33.58 | tigert | and the fact that we have very good courses of english grammar and volcabulary |
| 22:34.05 | tigert | but not that much spoken excercises |
| 22:34.24 | tigert | thus our accent is pretty horrid and people are ashamed of it, and fear of stumbling on what they try to say |
| 22:34.45 | Sulis | i kinda like the accent :P |
| 22:35.12 | tigert | its sorta cute :) |
| 22:35.16 | tigert | the "Mika Häkkinen" voice |
| 22:36.11 | Sulis | heh, well i don't watch formula one so i don't know |
| 22:36.29 | jumpula | "the race was very hard" |
| 22:37.33 | Sulis | hehe |
| 22:38.47 | zeenix | Sulis: so i take it that you have moved to finland recently? |
| 22:39.00 | tigert | http://youtube.com/watch?v=0Q6s_LhLchk |
| 22:40.03 | Sulis | zeenix: nope |
| 22:40.51 | Sulis | i'm encountering finnish on the net, although i'm thinking of visiting finnland later in the year |
| 22:41.32 | zeenix | Sulis: why? :) |
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| 22:41.58 | zeenix | Sulis: encouraging finnish i mean |
| 22:42.34 | Sulis | encouraging? |
| 22:42.46 | Molagi | Sulis i recommend you visit when its summer here :P |
| 22:42.56 | tigert | well. winter is an experience too |
| 22:43.10 | Sulis | i don't see enough snow :P |
| 22:43.16 | tigert | but then one needs to go to north |
| 22:43.22 | tigert | in mid-winter |
| 22:44.38 | Molagi | yeah, lapland is nice |
| 22:44.47 | Molagi | not so dark and depressing |
| 22:44.51 | jumpula | lapland, home of lapdancing |
| 22:45.12 | Molagi | indeed :d |
| 22:45.24 | Sulis | lol |
| 22:45.53 | tigert | http://www.flickr.com/search/?s=int&w=all&q=lapland+finland&m=text < hm, good search it seems |
| 22:46.53 | Sulis | zeenix: why are you confused that someone would want to learn your language? |
| 22:47.12 | tigert | zeenix is not a native finnish speaker |
| 22:47.14 | zeenix | mine? |
| 22:47.28 | tigert | he just works here :) |
| 22:47.35 | Sulis | ah |
| 22:47.37 | Sulis | kay |
| 22:47.41 | tigert | but man. we need to go to lapland as a team |
| 22:47.44 | tigert | during the darkest winter |
| 22:47.47 | tigert | that would rock |
| 22:48.02 | zeenix | Sulis: i've been here for two years but haven't even grasped the basics |
| 22:48.34 | zeenix | tigert: it's a bit more than that i think since i have a gf in here now :) |
| 22:48.48 | tigert | oh, then its motivation to learn the language :) |
| 22:49.12 | Sulis | i don't mind a challenge, and i find grammar interesting |
| 22:49.26 | tigert | "interesting" is a very mild term |
| 22:49.42 | jumpula | grammar or the lack of one? :) |
| 22:49.43 | tigert | they say its one of the most "interesting" grammars, in par with japanese |
| 22:49.48 | tigert | there is grammar |
| 22:49.55 | tigert | its just full of exceptions :) |
| 22:49.56 | jumpula | yes, there is |
| 22:50.11 | Sulis | japanese grammar is not hard |
| 22:50.13 | jumpula | but it's non-trivial to figure out on-the-fly |
| 22:50.59 | zeenix | minä haluan tapPan jumpulaa :) |
| 22:51.01 | tigert | ok, time to take the dogs out and then sleep |
| 22:51.03 | tigert | ttyl :) |
| 22:51.26 | Sulis | seeya tigert |
| 22:51.36 | Sulis | zeenix: what does that mean? |
| 22:52.10 | zeenix | Sulis: removing the 'P', it would mean 'i want to meet jumpula' |
| 22:52.30 | zeenix | but with a p more, it means 'i want to kill jumpula' :) |
| 22:52.51 | Sulis | hehe |
| 22:53.03 | jumpula | yeah, but the verbs here bend in a funny fashion |
| 22:53.13 | jumpula | so, in that context it would be like |
| 22:53.20 | jumpula | haluan tavata jumpulan |
| 22:53.28 | jumpula | haluan tappaa jumpulan |
| 22:53.33 | jumpula | p changes to v |
| 22:53.54 | tigert | yeah, but there is a way where this works too |
| 22:53.55 | jumpula | or other way round, since in the base form it's v |
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| 22:54.09 | tigert | "hän tapaa jumpulan" vs "hän tappaa jumpulan" |
| 22:54.27 | tigert | is correct, just different form of sentence |
| 22:54.31 | jumpula | bend is not the correct term, but don't remember the grammatic term at the moment |
| 22:54.42 | Sulis | congugate |
| 22:54.42 | tigert | "he/she will meet jumpula" vs "he/she will kill jumpula" :) |
| 22:54.55 | jumpula | no post or pre posiotions |
| 22:55.11 | jumpula | their function is embedded in the words :) |
| 22:55.19 | tigert | yep. |
| 22:55.27 | jumpula | -o |
| 22:55.53 | tigert | koti = home. at home = kotona. from home = kotoa. from ones home = kotoaan, into ones home = kotiinsa |
| 22:55.56 | tigert | etc, easy? :) |
| 22:56.22 | Sulis | no, it's not easy, but that makes it worth doing |
| 22:58.08 | jumpula | go fishing = mennä kalaan, enter a fish (go inside a fish) = mennä kalaan |
| 22:58.08 | jumpula | the latter has really no meaning and therefore not used :) |
| 22:58.08 | jumpula | but that demonstrates the behavior of the language |
| 22:58.08 | tigert | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_grammar |
| 22:58.09 | tigert | holu crap, that is long |
| 22:58.09 | Sulis | lol, i guess you can tell by the context in a sense like that |
| 22:58.12 | tigert | s/lu/ly// |
| 22:58.12 | jumpula | if one opts for challenge, then icelandic could be worth trying for |
| 22:58.19 | zeenix | why don't we all just start speaking klingon |
| 22:58.34 | jumpula | zeenix: i was wondering when you might bring that up :D |
| 22:58.43 | jumpula | q'pla |
| 22:58.54 | tigert | yIrqI' yIy yIy qaSvI' 'oH pongwIj'e' 'ej vInlan yejquvDaq jIjeS. pa' DIvI' SuDqu' vI'oS. |
| 22:59.02 | Molagi | oh my god |
| 22:59.02 | Sulis | zeenix: klingon is like swallowing sandpaper though |
| 22:59.08 | tigert | http://kasvi.org/index.php?kli |
| 22:59.44 | zeenix | is that the politician |
| 22:59.52 | tigert | yeah |
| 22:59.58 | tigert | well, and a geek |
| 23:00.02 | Molagi | heh |
| 23:00.06 | tigert | mostly a geek, who also got into politics |
| 23:00.17 | jumpula | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_grammar |
| 23:00.19 | Molagi | good strategy to fish some votes |
| 23:00.24 | ferulo | damm, I got a call today from my landord |
| 23:00.36 | ferulo | complains about the music |
| 23:00.42 | zeenix | i would vote for him if i had a vote |
| 23:00.43 | xan | ferulo, WHO complained |
| 23:00.47 | ferulo | hahaha |
| 23:00.49 | Sulis | jumpula: but icelandic i've not encountered |
| 23:00.50 | ferulo | YOU KNOW |
| 23:00.56 | xan | SAY IT |
| 23:00.58 | ferulo | THE FORMER PRESIDENT OF FINLAND! |
| 23:01.03 | xan | YES |
| 23:01.11 | ferulo | I cannot understand this finnish guys! |
| 23:02.18 | Sulis | jumpula: that seems a lot like latin... |
| 23:02.19 | jumpula | Sulis: i tried to fill an icelandic immigration form couple of years ago |
| 23:02.22 | ferulo | look xan now everyone is silent! |
| 23:03.15 | jumpula | i was unable to deduce most of the stuff |
| 23:03.15 | xan | ferulo, because you said the words |
| 23:03.15 | ferulo | they are scared! |
| 23:03.15 | jumpula | words didn't resemble anything i know |
| 23:03.46 | Sulis | jumpula: you're a linguist? |
| 23:03.52 | jumpula | no |
| 23:04.07 | Sulis | oh... |
| 23:04.21 | Sulis | kay! |
| 23:04.43 | jumpula | i really know only little of grammar (for any language) but it's fun to deduce stuff based on other languages :) |
| 23:04.58 | zeenix | Sulis: he is damn trekkie |
| 23:05.15 | jumpula | zeenix: takes one to know one ;) |
| 23:05.36 | Molagi | ferulo, so Martti Ahtisaari complained about music? |
| 23:05.48 | tigert | ok sleep & |
| 23:05.59 | Sulis | hehe, i used to call myself trekkie, but i dunno anymore... |
| 23:06.04 | ferulo | Molagi: yep |
| 23:06.11 | Molagi | strange |
| 23:06.43 | jumpula | any good scifi goes |
| 23:07.03 | jumpula | trek was my introduction to the genre, so there's some nostalgy there |
| 23:07.27 | Sulis | yeah, i grew up with the next generation really |
| 23:07.31 | ferulo | Molagi: I lived in the aparment below mine |
| 23:07.50 | ferulo | and that's what my landlord told me, so either it said it, either my landlord is a lier |
| 23:08.06 | Molagi | heh |
| 23:13.11 | Molagi | you better watch out, martti may still have some political powers :D |
| 23:14.36 | xan | when he doesn't come to work on monday I'll use his monitor for some xinerama love, so it's all fine |
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| 23:15.46 | Molagi | :P |
| 23:16.25 | Sulis | random question: when a finn speaks english they kinda stretch the vowels a bit or something...and i like that, it's kinda sexy, so does a native english speaker speak finnish with too short vowels and sound...harsh? |
| 23:17.31 | Molagi | dont know, never really heard anyone native english speaker speak finnish :P |
| 23:17.54 | Sulis | really? |
| 23:18.29 | ferulo | Molagi: well, I hope he can do only as any our finnish citizen can do. I guess that in this supposed democracy we all have same rights and duties |
| 23:18.44 | Molagi | :) |
| 23:18.56 | Molagi | Sulis atleast i cant recall :/ |
| 23:19.04 | ferulo | if he uses his political power to stop me puting opera on saturdays mornings then I won't trust this zero-corruption thing |
| 23:19.39 | tigert | ferulo: wireless headphones :) |
| 23:19.56 | Sulis | hahaha, opera on headphones |
| 23:20.06 | Molagi | must be lame |
| 23:20.07 | tigert | opera saturday mornings does not sound like fun when its not your choice :) |
| 23:20.31 | tigert | but anyway, off to the saturday mornings without opera (hopefully ;)) |
| 23:20.39 | ferulo | well, my mornings usually starts at 13.00 |
| 23:21.23 | tigert | ah. that is a bit different then. in finland we call it "afternoon" ;) |
| 23:21.39 | Sulis | hehehe |
| 23:22.08 | Molagi | i wish my mornings would start at 13.00 |
| 23:22.53 | Sulis | i wish the mornings when i have to work would start at 13:00 but not my saturday mornings |
| 23:24.14 | Molagi | yeah |
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| 23:31.09 | *** topic/#maemo is maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | http://maemo.org | irc logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ | https://garage.maemo.org/projects/os2007on770/ | http://www.flickr.com/groups/maemo/ |
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