IRC log for #ldstech on 20111201

00:06.26TimRikernot that I know of, but I'll ask around.
00:06.51josephscottfound someone through my linkedin contacts, I'm going to try there first
00:07.00TimRikergood luck!
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15:45.03macnewboldyawns
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15:59.15smootar************************************************
15:59.15smootar***** Begin - LDSTech Meeting - 1 DEC 2011 *****
15:59.15smootar************************************************
15:59.22smootarWho is here for our meeting?
15:59.39scgallafentmoin
15:59.56smootarwaves
16:00.17tdeforesthere
16:01.38smootarscgallafent, would you start?
16:01.49scgallafentTimRiker started working on the staging instance of recprop yesterday. I'm not sure how far he got. The external IP address appears to have been assigned (I can look it up externally), but it isn't answering.
16:02.02scgallafentI'm not sure where he got in that process and whether that is stalled.
16:02.26scgallafentStill waiting to hear back from Google...........
16:03.23scgallafentI realized I can set up for testing against lds.org instead of cdev.lds.org, so I'll set up for testing that way.
16:03.28scgallafentThat about sums up my world.
16:03.57smootarscgallafent, is there a ticket # for google that we can follow-up on?
16:04.06scgallafentA Google ticket number?
16:04.10smootarhears TimRiker over the wall.
16:04.15smootarSupport ID of some sort?
16:04.34scgallafentMatt H would know. I don't know if he can encourage the process along or if we just have to wait.
16:05.07smootarI didn't see one from Matt, but I wonder if we should follow-up with Google.  Having an ID would help push it along maybe.
16:05.09smootarJust a thought.
16:05.18smootarI would like to get that done.
16:05.27smootarIt has been lingering a long time.
16:05.30scgallafentShould we give it until Monday and then have him check with them.
16:05.37scgallafent(That was a question)
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16:06.06smootarmaybe.
16:06.17smootarIf I get the itch today I may call him.
16:06.23scgallafentOK
16:06.25smootarMoving on.
16:06.29smootartdeforest?
16:06.35tdeforestRearranged the dashboard to be organized around areas of contribution: https://cdev.lds.org/ldstech/joomla/?option=com_talentpool&controller=reports&view=reports&task=display&Itemid=39
16:07.02scgallafentloves compact URLs
16:07.14TimRikerhehe. scgallafent beat me to it
16:07.25smootar:)
16:07.26tdeforestthe lines of code and cost per 1000 lines may need to be updated to better match what we think the community contribution actually is
16:07.36scgallafentLooks nice
16:07.51smootarLike it.
16:07.56tdeforestlooking forward to having it dynamically updated - just hard coded right now
16:08.12smootarThis is coming along nicely.
16:08.34tdeforestsame with the other areas, just hard coded at the moment
16:08.35smootarI found out that John didn't use TimRiker's dashboard in his meeting.
16:08.53TimRikertdeforest, should I be doing a json interface on the page so you can pull in totals that way?
16:08.54smootarHe is waiting for a better version.
16:09.05smootarlikes that idea.
16:09.07TimRikerI could just look at the request type and deliver json.
16:09.15tdeforestthat's a good idea
16:09.38tdeforestsmootar: is this info helpful to John?
16:09.44smootarTimRiker, is that something you could start on soon so that the dashboard would start coming alive?
16:09.53smootarIt is.
16:09.53TimRikeryep
16:10.17smootarExcept he didn't like the caveot's (sp?) I provided.
16:10.28smootarLike Gospel Library is mostly content, not code.
16:10.48tdeforestdid he have a recommendation on the caveats?
16:10.53TimRiker~spell caveots
16:10.57smootarSo, I'm looking for the best automated approach to dealing with this type of project.
16:11.20smootarWould love ideas.
16:11.46tdeforestyou can see i've included anecdotal info in the dashboard
16:11.48smootarBut I do think the approach we have taken is good at this point.
16:11.56smootarYes, good stuff.
16:12.08tdeforest:)
16:12.20tdeforesti think it helps give the report more meaning
16:12.26smootarAgreed.
16:12.46TimRikertdeforest, note: in theory the dev site should point at a dev site statsvn using the svn base url config. I assume you've considered that and just pointing at production as there's nothing useful in dev svn.
16:12.56smootarI think the json services is the right way to approach this.
16:13.05tdeforestsmootar: any change on cost per 1000 from gartner?
16:13.12smootarYou can then present the info nicely in your dashboard.
16:13.21tdeforestyeah. production will be more useful
16:13.28smootarI tried to login to gartner, but I wasn't able to do so.
16:13.35smootarI thought I had an account provided to me a while back.
16:13.47smootarI need to track that down.
16:14.03scgallafentWhat if we just had a list of directories to exclude when calculating lines of code?
16:14.21smootarThat would be a conservative approach, and not a bad idea.
16:14.24TimRikerworking on emp/nonemp through ldap now
16:14.27macnewboldthat seems like a good initial approach
16:14.48tdeforestyeah. my dashboard hardcode includes all lines-needs to be edited/massaged
16:15.03smootarDo we exclude projects that have frameworks (apps) like joomla checked into them?
16:15.07TimRikercan't easily identify directories. could exclude entire repositories though.
16:15.44macnewboldframeworks are tricky - we may have initially pulled them in, then modified them, adding value
16:15.47tdeforestsmootar: tough call.
16:15.58smootarlikes macnewbold lurking.
16:16.02scgallafentWe could separate code and data into separate repositories and include the data in the project, but that seems like a lot of work and gyration just to calculate the stats.
16:16.02TimRikersmootar, we don't currently no. the output from statsvn does not make these easy to identify either
16:16.09macnewboldbut their initial value should probably be subtracted unless we want to count it as "volunteer contributions"
16:16.29smootarnods at these thoughts.
16:16.30tdeforesti say count frameworks. they had value and don't implement themselves
16:16.44scgallafenttdeforest has a point.
16:17.01scgallafentEven if we imported a bunch of code, there was effort involved in integrating that code and making it work for our needs.
16:17.25TimRikerpoints out again that statsvn does not break down contributer stats by path. just by repository.
16:17.41smootarSo the combination of removing large content projects and showing dates of when code was contributed.  I like this approach.
16:17.58smootarSo the dashboard would need to be able to show the last 90 days or last 12 months.
16:18.04tdeforestTimRiker: so there may be some repos we don't count if we feel they skew results
16:18.05smootarAnd be configurable.
16:18.21TimRikeryes, repos we can include/exclude easily.
16:18.26*** join/#ldstech dlhace (d831b5fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.49.181.254)
16:18.41smootarLet's move forward with that.
16:18.54smootarWhole repo's included/excluded.
16:19.35smootarAlong with providing date information with the json.
16:19.47smootarWe need to figure out how to do that, and how granular.
16:19.56tdeforestif you click on the lines of code in the dashboard you can see how the full details will be made available
16:20.01smootarLike maybe 1 week or month granularity.
16:20.21smootarMaybe a range only.
16:20.31smootarpassed in on the json call.
16:20.39tdeforesti was thinking a range
16:20.42scgallafentAre we going to count lines of code added over a date range or try to include the churn?
16:20.59TimRikercan't just pass it on json. the reports from statsvn would all need to be regenerated. that takes an hour or so.
16:21.22TimRikerunless you want to wait an hour for the reply that is. :)
16:21.38tdeforest:)
16:21.39smootarLet's discuss this later, but ranges need to be considered.
16:21.44smootarLet's move on.
16:21.44tdeforestk
16:21.52smootarAnything else tdeforest ?
16:21.57TimRikeragreed. just saying that's not an easy issue to address.
16:22.01tdeforesti tweaked the highlight areas as you saw smootar
16:22.12smootaragrees with TimRiker
16:22.20tdeforesti don't know if i like it - may just rvert them
16:22.38smootarI like what you have done.
16:22.44smootarThis really is clean.
16:22.51tdeforestsmootar: you should review yesterday's mtg notes about david staheli's projects
16:23.04tdeforestthat's all for me
16:23.08smootarOK.
16:23.08TimRikertdeforest, could we move the report items down below up to the top and make the descriptions pop-ups? ie: make the list small like a sub-menu across the top.
16:23.51tdeforestTimRiker: sure. let's discuss after
16:24.13smootarlikes that idea. We do need to be able to adjust the date range. Maybe you could think about that.
16:24.33tdeforestyeah. we'll see what we can do there
16:24.45smootarTimRiker, update?
16:25.10TimRikerdashboard stuff we already mentioned.
16:25.33TimRikeralso I worked on the a staging recprop instance only to find that tech-stage is not externally visible.
16:25.52TimRikerno sure what the next step on that is. proxy it through someplace I suppose.
16:25.54smootarThe information that TimRiker provided is the drill down info for Development.  So I think we are on target with TimRiker's data.
16:26.31TimRikermoving forward on getting ldap lookups into the statsvn home. should probably check this code in someplace, but have not.
16:26.34TimRikersuggestions?
16:26.40smootardlhace, how do we solve this?
16:27.00smootardlhace, the staging server needs to be visible.
16:27.31TimRikerdlhace was in touch with the security folks. The general reply was: community projects are insecure, so we won
16:27.45TimRikerwon't approve access to these 2.
16:28.03TimRikerthough at the time of the request, only ldstech was hosted in stage.
16:28.24dlhaceyes, I will need to work with security on this.  We also need to put into a place a process for other applications if we are going to be hanging them off of tech-stage.lds.org
16:28.24TimRikerclearly we need more communication on goals and strategies.
16:28.46smootar<PROTECTED>
16:28.58smootarWe need solutions, not stop signs.
16:29.04TimRikerdlhace, you mentioned dev/test/integration instances. do we have servers in place for these? would any of those be externally visible?
16:29.33TimRikerwell, dev is. I mean the others.
16:29.35dlhaceYes the cdev, ctest, cint are already exposed externally.
16:30.01TimRikerwhat's on ctest, cint? should we be adding recprop there?
16:30.08dlhacewe probably need a process in place to scan apps before we expose them externally even for ones that are in the cdmz
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16:30.27smootarsounds plausable
16:30.39TimRikerscgallafent, these would still be cdir not gdir. does that block what recprop needs?
16:31.05scgallafenthold on...
16:31.16scgallafentNo.
16:31.20scgallafentI don't think so.
16:31.32TimRikerjosephscott, talking about perhaps adding recprop to ctest or cint
16:32.04josephscottis there a list of the different hostnames/environments?  
16:32.08TimRikerok. I'll talk to dlhace about details and see if we can spin up ctest.lds.org/camping/
16:32.18smootarOk, let's move on.
16:32.19scgallafentUltimately I think we are going to run into situations where we need gdir instead of cdir, but maybe we solve that later.
16:32.28smootaragrees
16:32.42smootarTimRiker, anything else?
16:32.51TimRikernope. I'm good and swamped
16:33.12smootardlhace, do we have continuous integration for Scheduler yet?
16:33.14tdeforest~give TimRiker a clone
16:33.15infobotACTION gives a clone to TimRiker
16:33.23TimRikerooh! new toy
16:33.32smootar:)
16:33.39scgallafentdlhace, we've started working through a process of scanning apps (and resolving security's concerns before they are deployed). Not perfect, but it's progress and I've got the Fortify reports to prove it. :)
16:33.58smootarscgallafent, awesome.
16:34.05tdeforest:D
16:34.12TimRikeryes. access to fortify would be useful. (hint, hint)
16:34.18smootardlhace?
16:34.25smootarI'll track him down later.
16:34.38smootarWe have our LDSTech Broadcast tomorrow morning.
16:34.45smootarDid everyone get the invite sent to them?
16:34.51tdeforestyep
16:35.03scgallafentYes
16:35.10*** join/#ldstech KFitz (~MittRomne@proxy.lds.org)
16:35.10TimRikery
16:35.19KFitzG'Day
16:35.24smootarThe invite was sent to 75k people.  It was 65k last month.
16:35.32dlhaceI also need to find out about final thoughts on caching
16:35.57smootardlhace, do you have the continuous integration for the Scheduler?
16:36.13smootarProkarma will need this.
16:36.16dlhaceAs far as the canning of the app with fortify, that is great.  But security is going to want to run their own checks
16:36.32smootarThey started yesterday on this project.
16:36.37dlhaceyes continous integration for the scheduler is at cint.lds.org/scheduler
16:36.39TimRikerdlhace, I think we have other priorities over caching for cdev. can we allocate the hardware but leave it for later?
16:36.57dlhacethat is scanning not canning
16:37.11dlhaceyes,
16:37.12smootarI was expecting it at cdev.lds.org/scheduler.  I think I'm confused.
16:37.29dlhacecdev.lds.org/scheduler is the dev instance
16:37.56smootarWhen someone checks into svn, should the build be auto deployed to cdev?
16:37.59dlhacedo you mean cont dev?
16:38.10tdeforestis canning apps for my emergency supplies
16:38.26smootarMaybe.
16:38.27dlhaceI guess integration is really continuous
16:38.28TimRikerthings tdeforest means apples
16:38.58smootar:)
16:39.04TimRikercdev should be continuous. ctest/cint should me manual pushes.
16:39.12TimRikers/me/be/
16:39.18smootardlhace, does cdev get auto updated on a commit?
16:39.27smootarFor Scheduler?
16:39.34TimRiker(and coda? :)
16:40.03smootarOK, and CODA?
16:40.40smootarI agree cint and ctest would be a manually push.
16:40.57smootarWe are over time.
16:41.08smootarKFitz anything?
16:41.23TimRikerjosephscott, so we have cdev, ctest, cint, tech-stage, and production lanes at present. no apps are everywhere.
16:41.58TimRikersome apps in each. no list of what's where.
16:42.08josephscottI'm not sure what the difference is between all of those, hence my question about a list, with brief descriptions
16:42.08KFitzNo, I missed the beginning of the meeting, how is the test app coming?
16:42.34smootarWe need to discuss cint, ctest, tech-stage in the future.
16:42.43tdeforestKFitz: we're focusing on hiring a PM in phillippines
16:42.59tdeforestwhich is going slowly
16:43.09smootarJohn refocused efforts to the dashboard.
16:43.20TimRikerchecks for a reply from jc...
16:43.25smootarHiring is slow on the lead in the Phillipines.
16:43.41smootarTimRiker is working to get an interview with jc.
16:44.01smootarThe dashboard is for Blaine and took priority.
16:44.03dlhacecdev doesn't currently get updated on a committ, but I am working on that
16:44.24smootartdeforest and TimRiker have been working on this.
16:44.25TimRikerI've not been too available in the evenings, so I'm having timezone issues getting in touch with jc
16:44.44smootarTimRiker, did he reply?
16:44.46TimRikerdlhace, cdev should auto-update. cint should not.
16:44.46josephscottmakes a note to ask more about the dashboard tomorrow
16:44.58TimRikersmootar, no reply last night, no
16:45.16smootarOK, we need to end.  15 min over.
16:45.17smootar************************************************
16:45.17smootar***** End - LDSTech Meeting - 1 DEC 2011 *******
16:45.17smootar************************************************
16:45.28smootarThanks for everyone joining.
16:45.36TimRikerI have a nice dusty dashboard in my car if that helps.
16:45.59TimRikerread "Thanks for everyone joking." LOL
16:46.18tdeforestTimRiker: we were going to discuss the reports categories as menu
16:46.23tdeforestdo you have time?
16:46.26smootardlhace, can Prokarma check-in and have it auto deploy to a server in cdev for Scheduler?
16:47.11TimRikersure. I'm just thinking a sub menu across the top with Users|Roles|Skills|Traffic|Graphs and a hover-over text description.
16:47.17dlhacenot quite yet, i will have to help manually push it for a little while
16:47.35dlhaceI need to put an agent server into the CDMZ and then open the firewall ports.
16:47.48dlhaceThen the build team can finish off the build to push to the agent
16:47.56smootarOK, they started yesterday.  If you could get this working asap I would appreciate it.
16:48.10tdeforestor we could do a menu down the side. i'd like to also remove the sidebar on this view - i don't think it adds much utility for this section
16:48.18smootarThey will need this.
16:48.28TimRikerdlhace, coda should have a r172 build in cdev. but it's still r166
16:48.33smootarruns to a meeting.
16:48.56tdeforestTimRiker: i'll work on this and let you know when it is checked in
16:49.05TimRikertdeforest, cool. thx!
16:49.57TimRikertdeforest, got any ajax render-table-from-json code I should look at?
16:50.17TimRikerI was thinking I'd make the page call itself to get json. that way I can test right there.
16:51.34TimRikerperhaps http://datatables.net/ ?
16:52.58TimRikerit's already in joomla pages, right? using: joomla/templates/ldstech/js/datatables/media/js/jquery.dataTables.min.js ?
16:53.21TimRikerthough I don't think we need all the unit tests checked in...
16:53.34tdeforestdata tables is good
16:54.15tdeforestvery powerful and flexible
16:54.32TimRikerare we using any of the sub-directory stuff under joomla/templates/ldstech/js/datatables ?
16:54.38TimRikercan we remove what we're not using?
16:55.05tdeforesti'll look. i know i removed some stuff we weren't using
16:56.33TimRikerlooks like all we use is jquery.dataTables.min.js
16:56.41tdeforestwithout looking i'm pretty sure there is more I could remove
16:57.25tdeforesti'll do some pruning
16:58.26TimRikerIdeally I'd like to see a includes/js/jquery.dataTables.min.js and nothing being used from templates/
16:59.53tdeforestthe templates dir seems like a good location since it is related to our customizations
17:01.20TimRikerjust that we have js files in at least 2 places. don't know which is the joomla-way
17:02.05TimRikernot a big deal. just thinking out loud
17:02.41tdeforestit would be nice to have them in one location. /me looks to see what's in includes/js
17:03.03TimRikerjquery stuff we've added
17:03.34TimRikerin theory there's an xml file someplace for our add-ons that lists all the files we add. not that we've tested that in a long time.
17:04.21TimRikerjoomla/modules/mod_talentpool/mod_talentpool.xml joomla/administrator/components/com_talentpool/talentpool.xml
17:04.59tdeforesthmmm. was ignorant of those files
17:05.59TimRikerin theory we can bundle up the talentpool module and component into zip files and then install them on another joomla instance
17:06.15TimRikeragain, not been tested in a long time.
17:07.42tdeforesti'll add tickets for consolidating js dirs and for reviewing the xml files, medium to low priority.
17:08.05TimRikerk
17:12.48TimRikeradds statsvn stuff (including binary jar files, ugh) to svn
17:14.09TimRikerdlhace, can you get http://cdev.lds.org/statsvn/ working? apache dies on the cdev svn server on that request.
17:15.58dlhace* wondering what I can do better that TimRiker on the statsvn stuff
17:17.20TimRikerdlhace, apache dies on the cdev svn server. segfault. something is different on releases on that server.
17:17.27TimRikerapache is unstable.
17:17.53dlhaceso you want me to look at updating apache?
17:17.54TimRikerI just have not taken the time to figure out what got setup there.
17:18.09TimRikerwell, I want it to stop crashing. =)
17:20.37TimRiker/svn/ /svnrm/ and /statsvn/ should all be on the same machine in cdev. I forget which.
17:21.06TimRiker/svn/ was working, /svnrm/ was working but /statsvn/ was crashing apache last I checked.
17:21.37TimRikerthey should match what chqpvul5222 is doing in production
17:30.35TimRikertdeforest, I checked the statsvn code into ldstech/statsvn/
17:35.22RedWorksome one left me a post-in note
17:35.37RedWorkand it's too cryptic for me to make out today...
18:19.36TimRikerI don't see any way to send header/footer information with datatables. is there something I'm missing?
18:25.04tdeforestand I'm back...
18:25.38tdeforestTimRiker: i don't understand what you're trying to do
18:26.09TimRikerwhat would you like the json data to look like such that totals are included?
18:26.25TimRikeror can datatables add up the totals?
18:27.13tdeforestdata tables might be capable of totaling
18:30.44tdeforestdoesn't look like data tables handles sum for a column
18:32.35tdeforestTimRiker: here's a method for totaling column values: http://www.datatables.net/examples/advanced_init/footer_callback.html
18:34.06TimRikergood find. reviewing
18:48.33TimRikerhmm... and sometimes we'll have a value, and sometimes not.
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18:51.21TimRikerchrxn_, opening and closing your lid again?
18:51.46chrxnyeah what the heck
18:52.25chrxnIt onlyy happens on this server
18:53.14chrxnWeird
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20:53.42aamonsonsince my name starts with @aa, I am always at the top of the list of people in the channel :)
20:59.01aaatdeforestnot any more aamonson
21:02.59macnewboldhehe
21:03.32macnewbold~seen aamonson
21:03.34infobotaamonson <80bb6105@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.187.97.5> was last seen on IRC in channel #ldstech, 9m 52s ago, saying: 'since my name starts with @aa, I am always at the top of the list of people in the channel :)'.
21:05.56_tdeforestmust have fallen off a cliff
21:12.42macnewboldsounds like it
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21:17.12MacNewboldwohoo - i found how to tell who someone is logged in as when they're on an alternate nick
21:17.22tdeforestdo tell
21:17.24MacNewbold<PROTECTED>
21:17.41MacNewboldor if testing for a specific account, replace * with the account
21:18.06tdeforestslick
21:18.18tdeforesti doubt i'll remember that when i need it, but very cool :)
21:20.27MacNewboldhehe, TimRiker and i were messing with that the other day
21:29.51smootarll
21:30.47smootar<PROTECTED>
21:58.19TimRikermacnewbold, /whois also includes that information
21:58.30macnewboldin my client it doesn't :(
21:58.34TimRikerit will tell you the name of the account they are logged in as.
22:00.17*** join/#ldstech TimRiker (~TimRiker@bzflag/projectlead/TimRiker)
22:00.17*** mode/#ldstech [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ
22:00.48TimRikerarg...
22:01.13TimRikermacnewbold, what about /quote whois GvzEvxre
22:01.32TimRikerreminds people that it's /quote and not /server LOL
22:02.26macnewboldnothing
22:02.40macnewboldnothing for /server either
22:30.01TimRikerthat's what you get for using purple/pidgin I guess
22:30.22macnewboldyeah, serves me right
22:30.28TimRikerlol
22:30.32macnewboldso far for me the pros outweigh the cons
22:31.02macnewboldquick question - how does one retrieve the definition of a factoid/command that accepts args?
22:33.50macnewboldhe's gone i guess
22:42.56TimRikeruse the poorly documented cmd: syntax. :(
22:43.09TimRiker~listkeys whaleblock
22:43.24TimRikerliteral cmd: whaleblock (.*?)
22:43.30TimRiker~literal cmd: whaleblock (.*?)
22:43.30infobot"cmd: whaleblock (.*?)" is "($1): <action> shields $1 with a freakishly huger whale named ollywag"
22:43.59scgallafentTimRiker: Can you tell me what revision is running on the production CPAS instance?
22:45.35TimRiker552
22:46.07scgallafentThanks.
23:50.06RedWorkhttp://www.instructables.com/id/Origami-Snowflake-1/ <--- Christmas Origami!

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