| 00:00.08 | simph1 | My favorite part of programming is the learning of how mysql works with oracle forms, plsql... or php... together with my programming skills in java (netbeans and eclipse) or utilizing the C# experience i have... ;) |
| 00:00.50 | smootar | Well we need your help on the reports generation for BSIR. |
| 00:01.32 | smootar | I'm going to try to get the reports prioritized so you know which to work on first. |
| 00:02.14 | simph1 | I am an outsider at this point... and I do not understand how your systems work at present... this gives me a great disability in assisting you if you know my meaning? |
| 00:03.21 | simph1 | is there anyway i can get like a 101 on everything ... that is related to which you need my help on? |
| 00:03.45 | smootar | Tim should be able to chat here shortly, I'm stepping away for a while. He or Kathryn (he'll introduce you) will be able to help. |
| 00:04.07 | smootar | I will connect in a while to see how things are going. |
| 00:09.13 | *** join/#ldstech TimRiker (~TimRiker@216.49.181.128) |
| 00:09.13 | *** join/#ldstech TimRiker (~TimRiker@bzflag/projectlead/TimRiker) |
| 00:09.21 | simph1 | Hi Tim... |
| 00:09.26 | simph1 | I added you to my skype |
| 00:10.03 | simph1 | Did Alan Smoot tell you about where I am with my skillset? |
| 00:19.48 | simph1 | You there Tim? |
| 00:50.02 | simph1 | I think if you used PL/SQL ---> you can make procedures and functions that calculate... and create and update database tables... it also can run reports... and all kinds of things in Oracle Forms... been doing this in college... ;) |
| 00:55.04 | simph1 | or using java/javascript... with php... and the database... (mysql perhaps)... make calculations... connects to database tables... automatic updates the data... from a backend site... |
| 01:01.28 | simph1 | I could probably do the entire project myself... seems from the instructions very simplistic... |
| 01:01.44 | simph1 | BSIR |
| 01:06.30 | TimRiker | yeah, sry. busy day. I'll get on skype tonight. |
| 01:06.57 | TimRiker | Did you get added to the project on tech.lds.org? I'll look at that now, but I'm headed out the door. |
| 01:11.02 | simph1 | Yes i did... and im accepted... and i accepted the agreements etc |
| 01:11.12 | simph1 | Alan Smoot has been helping me get setup! |
| 01:11.16 | simph1 | im coming to conference too! |
| 01:11.18 | TimRiker | simph1, what's your ldsaccount username? please /msg me instead of posting publicly here. |
| 01:11.22 | simph1 | simph1 |
| 01:11.32 | simph1 | oh sorry boss |
| 01:11.33 | simph1 | lol :) |
| 01:12.00 | TimRiker | np. :) |
| 01:12.52 | TimRiker | added you to the project. :) |
| 01:13.22 | TimRiker | https://tech.lds.org/index.php/talent-profile?controller=projects&view=joinproject&joinid=405 |
| 01:13.47 | TimRiker | the link to the wiki page for docs, jira for bugs, and svn for source is there. |
| 01:14.10 | TimRiker | the test site is here: https://tech.lds.org/bsir/ |
| 01:14.47 | TimRiker | most of what's needed at present is to get the reports flushed out. I'm working on ldsaccount integration on this end. |
| 01:15.05 | TimRiker | reports and some kind of testing framework would both be good things to start on. |
| 01:15.52 | TimRiker | I'll be on later tonight. try out the test site and holler if you have questions. I gotta run. back later. |
| 05:52.31 | jessestay | Should we have a contest on who can have the longest uptime in IRC? |
| 12:02.48 | *** join/#ldstech smootar (~smootar@216.49.181.128) |
| 13:29.46 | smootar | ~log |
| 13:29.46 | infobot | rumour has it, log is located at http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/webos-internals/ and the latest log is located at http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/webos-internals.txt |
| 13:33.50 | smootar | logs are not there, they are here: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23ldstech/ |
| 13:38.48 | *** join/#ldstech William (william@its-utapau.its.utexas.edu) |
| 15:38.20 | *** join/#ldstech sshaw (~decriptor@137.65.132.35) |
| 15:45.07 | *** join/#ldstech tdeforest (a6f9777c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.166.249.119.124) |
| 15:46.29 | tdeforest | Leaving North Platte. |
| 16:00.28 | smootar | Will you be calling in? |
| 16:42.10 | *** join/#ldstech TimRiker (~TimRiker@bzflag/projectlead/TimRiker) |
| 16:47.43 | *** join/#ldstech aamonson (d831b5fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.49.181.254) |
| 16:50.17 | TimRiker | smootar, there is also a https://ldsteams/sites/ldstech/ |
| 16:58.44 | *** join/#ldstech kathryngz (~kathryn@97-117-85-92.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 16:59.10 | *** join/#ldstech sshaw (~decriptor@137.65.132.35) |
| 17:13.12 | TimRiker | moin kathryngz :) |
| 17:14.09 | TimRiker | kathryngz, have you changed your ldsaccount email to your gmail version? I still see your aol email on tech.lds.org. we really should not be storing email info, but instead pulling from ldsaccount when we need it. |
| 17:21.42 | *** join/#ldstech kathryngz (~kathryn@97-117-85-92.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 17:21.49 | TimRiker | kathryngz, wb |
| 17:21.57 | kathryngz | wb? |
| 17:22.11 | TimRiker | welcome back. :) |
| 17:22.11 | kathryngz | oh, I bet it's welcome back :) |
| 17:22.14 | kathryngz | LOL! |
| 17:22.18 | TimRiker | =P |
| 17:22.34 | kathryngz | I hit the wrong button on Zone Alarm--it was warning me about XChat accessing the trusted zone. |
| 17:22.43 | kathryngz | So then it disconnected me. |
| 17:22.51 | TimRiker | eek. :) ok, not really. |
| 17:22.57 | kathryngz | Yeah :) |
| 17:23.03 | TimRiker | it's saving you from yourself |
| 17:23.08 | kathryngz | Exactly <g> |
| 17:23.34 | TimRiker | where are we on the IE bug? you said you had specific lines for me to look at? |
| 17:23.54 | kathryngz | You are a mind reader :) |
| 17:23.59 | kathryngz | I was just about to send you this: |
| 17:23.59 | kathryngz | http://www.ventanazul.com/webzine/articles/stupid-internet-explorer |
| 17:24.15 | TimRiker | looks like you tried the expanded version of jquery? I checked that in to try locally, but I don't recall if I changed the site to use that version or not. |
| 17:24.21 | kathryngz | We aren't the only ones having this IE problem. |
| 17:24.32 | TimRiker | that does not surprise me |
| 17:24.37 | kathryngz | Me neither. |
| 17:24.45 | kathryngz | You said expanded version--do you mean the update? |
| 17:24.58 | kathryngz | I tried both the old version and 1.5 (I think) that you uploaded. |
| 17:25.00 | kathryngz | Neither helped. |
| 17:25.09 | jessestay | Should we have a contest on who can have the longest uptime in IRC? |
| 17:25.11 | kathryngz | I have alerted all the data and keys, and they are all correct. |
| 17:25.18 | kathryngz | Why not? <g> |
| 17:25.39 | kathryngz | Apparently, IE does not want to replace the contents of some elements. |
| 17:25.50 | kathryngz | Googling shows that other people are having this problem too. |
| 17:26.17 | TimRiker | the -1.5 version is the readable expanded version. jquery.js is also upgraded to 1.5, but in the compressed form. |
| 17:26.18 | kathryngz | The best suggestion (as in most likely to work, but still clunky) is probably the one in the article I just pasted... |
| 17:26.27 | kathryngz | I just used what you added. |
| 17:26.52 | kathryngz | Anyway, the author of the article got the element text to be replaced by removing it and then appending new text. |
| 17:26.56 | kathryngz | Ugh... but if it works... |
| 17:27.17 | TimRiker | jessestay, ChanServ will likely win. :) if you're good at it, try #idlerpg (I think that's right) where you advances levels for doing nothing, and drop levels for talking, etc. |
| 17:27.18 | kathryngz | I think I'll make it conditional to IE, though, so FF users don't have to wait. |
| 17:28.10 | TimRiker | sounds painful, but ah well. the joy of IE |
| 17:28.46 | kathryngz | Exactly. Some day I'm going to send Microsoft a bill for the hundreds of hours I've spent troubleshooting and tweaking code for IE. |
| 17:29.13 | kathryngz | Not hundreds on this project alone, of course :) but previous projects at work too. |
| 17:29.57 | TimRiker | It might not be a bad idea to have a small message someplace recommending anything but IE. |
| 17:30.49 | kathryngz | Do you think Welfare would go for that? Apparently IE is the Church's standard, which is . . . amazing to me. |
| 17:31.08 | kathryngz | It's on all the family history machines as the default. |
| 17:31.36 | kathryngz | Rick said everyone in the field will be using IE. |
| 17:31.49 | kathryngz | Maybe we can change that... <g> |
| 17:32.03 | TimRiker | I think we should bring it up. yeah, talk to Lynn Shaw about that. the one issue for the family history machines at present is that he does not know how to install an ssl certificate into firefox from landesk without a ui prompt. |
| 17:32.20 | kathryngz | How about this disclaimer... "If you would like BSIR to actually work, please use anything but IE" |
| 17:32.22 | kathryngz | he he he |
| 17:32.23 | TimRiker | if he could solve that issue, they would switch to firefox. |
| 17:32.51 | kathryngz | Do you know how to do that? |
| 17:32.55 | kathryngz | You know everything!! |
| 17:33.04 | TimRiker | nope. not spent too much time looking for it though. |
| 17:33.20 | kathryngz | You would do millions of church members a favor by finding the answer :) |
| 17:33.31 | kathryngz | You have a lot of free time, don't you? ;) |
| 17:34.56 | TimRiker | yeah... If I had some, I'd use it for sleep. |
| 17:35.10 | kathryngz | What a concept :) |
| 17:35.33 | TimRiker | didn't have to drop off the kids this morning, so I got 7 hours. ahh. almost there. |
| 17:35.47 | kathryngz | Sleep really helps!! |
| 17:36.04 | TimRiker | have you tried firebug out yet? I've just installed it, but not messed with it much. |
| 17:36.43 | kathryngz | I have...I don't know it well yet, but it alerted me to about 10 errors yesterday which I was able to fix. |
| 17:36.50 | kathryngz | I need to learn it better. |
| 17:53.11 | kathryngz | Oh! I just read what you typed above more carefully, that jquery.js is upgraded but minified. I'll switch back to jquery.js in the header. Thanks. |
| 17:58.32 | TimRiker | :) |
| 18:11.46 | TimRiker | The requested URL /bsir/assets/json/select.json was not found on this server. - we try to load a select.json. we should probably detect that and not request one. |
| 18:14.24 | kathryngz | yeah, there's no such file. Where is that request coming from? |
| 18:22.06 | kathryngz | I just searched for select.js in all the code of the site and it doesn't appear. |
| 18:26.35 | TimRiker | .json |
| 18:27.09 | TimRiker | I just checked in some changes. the various change language functions try it. I found 4 places to change |
| 18:34.57 | kathryngz | I don't see a select.json locally or in the repo browser. I'm confused? |
| 18:36.56 | kathryngz | Well, I just tried that guy's trick of appending text to the element to be translated, and IE throws the same error. |
| 18:36.59 | kathryngz | grrrr! |
| 18:53.17 | TimRiker | hmm |
| 18:54.20 | TimRiker | there is no select.json. the code that changes languages on login.php for example has a drop down where select is the first "language" so we try to translate to "select" and fail. I just added a check for that, so we don't try translating till you pick a real language. |
| 18:54.37 | TimRiker | does IE handle language changes on feedback or other forms? |
| 18:55.03 | TimRiker | https://tech.lds.org/bsir/feedback.php for example? |
| 19:06.11 | *** join/#ldstech simph1 (~simph1@166-70-120-233.ip.xmission.com) |
| 19:06.22 | simph1 | yeay... i fixed my mIRC... :0 |
| 19:09.53 | simph1 | mIRC has got to be the BEST irc chat program EVER : |
| 19:10.59 | kathryngz | @Tim--thanks--I thought that check was already in place, so glad you caught that. |
| 19:11.37 | simph1 | hi kathryn... : |
| 19:11.55 | kathryngz | Hi Simon! Welcome :) |
| 19:12.06 | kathryngz | @Tim, brilliant question. The answer is YES it does! |
| 19:12.17 | kathryngz | See https://tech.lds.org/bsir/feedback.php. |
| 19:12.21 | simph1 | I am a PhP developer... together with mySQL... and IIS/Wamp/Apache etc |
| 19:12.38 | kathryngz | Great! I understand you're available to help with reports... |
| 19:12.55 | simph1 | whatever you mean by reports... thats like a can of worms.. lol... |
| 19:13.01 | kathryngz | You said it :) |
| 19:13.44 | simph1 | but if you mean... do i know how to query... join... calculate... and do all that sorts of things in sql... and then bring that information out into a webpage style php page... then the answer is yes i can! |
| 19:13.49 | kathryngz | @Tim--I'll have to look at the feedback page's script--I forgot how it works <g> |
| 19:14.13 | kathryngz | @Simon--that is exactly what we're looking for :) Have you been to the BSIR site? |
| 19:14.21 | simph1 | yes i hacked in |
| 19:14.39 | simph1 | it was so simple due to you not using security systems to protect the data... :) |
| 19:14.53 | simph1 | lol |
| 19:14.53 | kathryngz | Tim, are you listening to this? <g> |
| 19:15.10 | simph1 | for instance i can see ALL your codes... ALL your js files... etc |
| 19:15.25 | simph1 | with php... you cannot do that |
| 19:15.34 | simph1 | do you know why kathryn? |
| 19:15.42 | kathryngz | I'm not sure what you're asking? |
| 19:15.53 | kathryngz | I'm not a security expert by any means :) |
| 19:15.54 | simph1 | basically you goto the website... you right click... view source... |
| 19:16.00 | kathryngz | Sure... |
| 19:16.01 | simph1 | now i can see all the links... |
| 19:16.05 | simph1 | all the js files |
| 19:16.09 | simph1 | all your connection scripts |
| 19:16.11 | simph1 | etc... |
| 19:16.22 | simph1 | with php... this is an example |
| 19:16.27 | kathryngz | Aren't the connection scirpts in server side php? |
| 19:16.31 | kathryngz | *scripts |
| 19:16.35 | simph1 | yes |
| 19:16.40 | simph1 | and |
| 19:16.42 | kathryngz | So how do you see them in view source? |
| 19:16.45 | simph1 | this is fun... and interesting |
| 19:16.48 | kathryngz | Yes :) |
| 19:16.49 | simph1 | you can on your site |
| 19:16.51 | kathryngz | Good for me to learn! |
| 19:16.57 | simph1 | coz your using java etc |
| 19:17.06 | kathryngz | Actually, we're not using java... |
| 19:17.10 | simph1 | now with php... if you had a calculation... |
| 19:17.18 | simph1 | i know... |
| 19:17.20 | kathryngz | Can you give me an example of where you saw a connection script in view source? |
| 19:17.22 | simph1 | im just stating... lol |
| 19:17.31 | simph1 | so you understand why php is better |
| 19:17.43 | simph1 | if i had... A + B = C... |
| 19:17.53 | simph1 | and you put that in to a php page... |
| 19:18.05 | simph1 | and the USER client side... views source on that page |
| 19:18.10 | simph1 | all they see.. is the answer |
| 19:18.23 | simph1 | so if a=1... b = 2... c then = 3 |
| 19:18.29 | kathryngz | Right... can you give me an example of where you could see a connection string in view source? |
| 19:18.29 | simph1 | on the view source... you only see 3 |
| 19:18.56 | kathryngz | I'm not so worried about the other stuff... maybe I shoudl be... but the connection string should not be visible client side. |
| 19:19.01 | kathryngz | Can you tell me where it is visible? |
| 19:19.02 | simph1 | kathryn doesnt know when i am teasing her... but i could get it... in the way that it is setup right now... |
| 19:19.18 | simph1 | ;) |
| 19:19.55 | simph1 | im not at home right now either.. :0 |
| 19:20.00 | simph1 | im in class... ;) |
| 19:20.19 | simph1 | NET103A... boring subnetting... |
| 19:20.42 | kathryngz | Try not to fall asleep :) |
| 19:20.54 | simph1 | thats why im entertaining myself with this ;) |
| 19:21.06 | simph1 | what was the link to the bishops storehouse again? |
| 19:21.09 | kathryngz | @Tim, just looked at the feedback page. The only difference is that the elements are selected with an actual class. |
| 19:21.15 | simph1 | coz im at college... :0 |
| 19:21.23 | kathryngz | Just hack into it like you did before, lol! |
| 19:21.27 | simph1 | lol.. |
| 19:21.39 | simph1 | i used the link... and on the main page... it had 5 passwords |
| 19:21.46 | simph1 | i used those.. ;) |
| 19:21.48 | simph1 | got in... |
| 19:22.03 | kathryngz | In the new translation script, they're selected by [class=*tr_] |
| 19:22.07 | kathryngz | That is the only difference I can see. |
| 19:22.28 | kathryngz | @simon, so do you really need the link? |
| 19:22.57 | kathryngz | @Tim, oops, [class*=tr_] |
| 19:23.21 | kathryngz | I think [class*=tr_] must be confusing IE--at least that's my working theory. |
| 19:24.28 | kathryngz | bsir URL is https://tech.lds.org/bsir/login.php |
| 19:24.55 | simph1 | i found a possible bug... |
| 19:25.01 | kathryngz | Thank you!! |
| 19:25.04 | kathryngz | What is it? |
| 19:25.15 | kathryngz | It sounds like you can help us with testing as well as reports. |
| 19:25.21 | kathryngz | Both are critical at this point. |
| 19:25.49 | simph1 | when i sign into the site... and go to local leaders... choose any stake etc... and the page shows up for 2 seconds with emails etc... and it suddenly disappears.. then another page comes up! |
| 19:26.41 | kathryngz | Ah... the local leaders page isn't working because we haven't been able to tie into fake (or real) membership data yet. |
| 19:27.01 | kathryngz | But the page shouldn't be disappearing. I bet I erroneously attached a validation script to the search form. |
| 19:27.06 | simph1 | for those who dont know me... I am a tutor... at stevens henager college... doing a bachelor of computer science programming major... last year... grad date nov 2011... :) |
| 19:27.09 | kathryngz | Thanks for catching that! |
| 19:27.44 | simph1 | i am mentally ill... which is why my communication skills are faster than i can type... lol... adhd... ocd... etc... lol... watch out!!! lol.... |
| 19:27.59 | kathryngz | Okay, you're scaring me ;) |
| 19:28.02 | simph1 | lol... |
| 19:28.34 | simph1 | nah... it just means my skillset is greater than most... due to IQ in top 4% of population |
| 19:28.45 | simph1 | ;) |
| 19:28.49 | kathryngz | And clearly you're very humble... |
| 19:28.51 | kathryngz | ;) |
| 19:28.52 | simph1 | lol... |
| 19:29.01 | simph1 | me? humble... joking right? |
| 19:29.06 | simph1 | ;) |
| 19:29.08 | kathryngz | :) |
| 19:29.14 | simph1 | love to have a laugh... :) |
| 19:29.18 | kathryngz | Me too :) |
| 19:29.22 | simph1 | hey... seriously tho |
| 19:29.26 | kathryngz | Yes? |
| 19:29.56 | simph1 | I love scrutinizing (cant spell) database tables... to get rid of those duplications etc... that make databases slow |
| 19:30.13 | simph1 | im not talking about data duplications... |
| 19:30.24 | simph1 | im talking fields... and redundant datafields etc |
| 19:31.03 | kathryngz | Sounds like a good skill to have! |
| 19:31.04 | simph1 | example is where you have in one table... name of student... id of student... and in a second table.. name of student... id of student... student grant amount... |
| 19:31.15 | simph1 | you only need one field that is the same... |
| 19:31.18 | simph1 | in both tables |
| 19:31.51 | simph1 | and using joining techniques in sql... or pl/sql... which is the programming language for sql... you can speed up data transfer... |
| 19:31.53 | kathryngz | Yes... in fact, that's how we set up our tables. I don't think any data is duplicated anywhere |
| 19:32.24 | kathryngz | Though it wouldn't hurt to double check... but AFTER we meet our deadline... has Alan told you much about this project and what we're up against? |
| 19:32.32 | simph1 | nope |
| 19:32.36 | simph1 | all i got is the site link |
| 19:32.45 | kathryngz | Is your class still boring? I can go into detail <g> |
| 19:32.48 | simph1 | and i have never worked in this capacity before |
| 19:32.56 | simph1 | they are watching youtube vids... |
| 19:32.58 | simph1 | lol |
| 19:33.02 | kathryngz | <g> |
| 19:33.07 | kathryngz | Okay, here's the deal. |
| 19:33.12 | simph1 | k.... |
| 19:33.20 | simph1 | you dont mind me asking questions along way |
| 19:33.23 | simph1 | thats how i leaern |
| 19:33.25 | simph1 | learn* |
| 19:33.33 | kathryngz | No, please do. I'm the same way. |
| 19:33.41 | simph1 | i love bantering |
| 19:33.42 | kathryngz | We were tasked with writing a web application for LAC (Latin American & Caribbean) Bishop's Storehouses. |
| 19:33.47 | kathryngz | It's fun :) |
| 19:33.48 | simph1 | k |
| 19:33.52 | kathryngz | the bantering, |
| 19:33.54 | simph1 | i got the bishops storehouse sheets |
| 19:34.01 | kathryngz | Well, and of course the storehouse stuff too :) |
| 19:34.02 | kathryngz | Anyway... |
| 19:34.03 | simph1 | bishop came over the other night and gave me a copy |
| 19:34.05 | simph1 | lol... |
| 19:34.11 | kathryngz | Great! |
| 19:34.14 | kathryngz | You're prepared :) |
| 19:34.22 | simph1 | anticipated |
| 19:34.39 | simph1 | ok... so you got to have tables for... manager of storehouse... |
| 19:34.44 | simph1 | workers |
| 19:34.46 | kathryngz | Good job :) Anyway, the LAC storehouses and area offices were tracking inventory using an Access database. |
| 19:34.49 | simph1 | food stuffs |
| 19:34.53 | simph1 | stock taking |
| 19:34.55 | kathryngz | Yes, all that is set up. |
| 19:34.58 | simph1 | lol... |
| 19:35.03 | kathryngz | Do you have mysql workbench? |
| 19:35.14 | simph1 | i use the following: |
| 19:35.22 | simph1 | pl/sql (programming side of sql) |
| 19:35.28 | simph1 | that makes procedures and functions |
| 19:35.37 | simph1 | like modules of java for instance.... |
| 19:35.44 | simph1 | i use mysql |
| 19:35.45 | simph1 | sql |
| 19:35.51 | simph1 | slightly different in languages |
| 19:35.54 | kathryngz | Good, that's what we're using on this project. |
| 19:35.56 | kathryngz | mysql. |
| 19:36.02 | simph1 | i got workbench |
| 19:36.17 | simph1 | i use c#, java, javascript... vb... visual studio 2010... silverlight |
| 19:36.20 | kathryngz | Have you been set up with access to the BSIR site? |
| 19:36.22 | simph1 | all kinds of techs... |
| 19:36.30 | simph1 | nope... i hacked in remember |
| 19:36.32 | kathryngz | right now we just need mysql/php for the reports. |
| 19:36.37 | simph1 | lol |
| 19:36.56 | kathryngz | Tim, you still listening? |
| 19:37.02 | simph1 | <?php echo "hello world"; ?> |
| 19:37.10 | kathryngz | lol :) |
| 19:37.20 | simph1 | I got A grade in PHP |
| 19:37.22 | kathryngz | Tim, can you set Simon up with the appropriate access for BSIR, or does he need to talk to Alan? |
| 19:37.41 | kathryngz | Tom always did the setup in the past, but not sure how it's handled n9ow... |
| 19:37.43 | simph1 | or do i still use... the log in for the 5 passwords that are showing on the main page? |
| 19:37.55 | simph1 | lol... |
| 19:38.00 | kathryngz | I"m talking about access to the SVN repo, the database, etc. |
| 19:38.09 | kathryngz | No, those passwords won't work for that :) |
| 19:38.09 | simph1 | no i dont know how to get that.. lol |
| 19:38.23 | kathryngz | Okay, back to the status (hopefully Tim will chime in and answer our question)... |
| 19:38.47 | simph1 | lol... |
| 19:38.56 | kathryngz | The storehouses and Area Offices were tracking inventory in an MS Access database <shudder> |
| 19:39.04 | simph1 | WOW |
| 19:39.08 | kathryngz | Though it was better than paper. But they had to email files back and forth. it was a mess. |
| 19:39.13 | simph1 | i used to do access via client side... |
| 19:39.20 | simph1 | before that... used DBase IV |
| 19:39.26 | kathryngz | So we were tasked with coming up with, very quickly, a replacement web application. |
| 19:39.31 | kathryngz | That's what BSIR is. |
| 19:39.33 | simph1 | ok... |
| 19:39.39 | simph1 | but let me guess |
| 19:39.39 | kathryngz | Just about everything is done EXCEPT the report. |
| 19:39.42 | simph1 | they want to use the same data |
| 19:39.43 | kathryngz | *reports. |
| 19:39.56 | kathryngz | Nope... we talked about that and decided it wasn't feasible, given the tight timeline. |
| 19:40.04 | kathryngz | (we're hoping to roll out the end of March). |
| 19:40.10 | simph1 | wow long time |
| 19:40.13 | kathryngz | So we will just be entering beginning balances in our database |
| 19:40.19 | simph1 | ok |
| 19:40.24 | simph1 | question |
| 19:40.28 | kathryngz | Shoot! |
| 19:40.35 | simph1 | will we be using calculating fields techniques? |
| 19:40.39 | simph1 | in the databse |
| 19:40.51 | kathryngz | If it turns out to be the best way to do the reports, we can. |
| 19:40.58 | simph1 | ok... |
| 19:41.00 | simph1 | im listening |
| 19:41.23 | kathryngz | So I was given an old user guide which listed all the reports and gave screen shots. |
| 19:41.36 | kathryngz | So I set up the HTML to look like the reports, but right now only one or two reports are populated with data. |
| 19:41.50 | kathryngz | We need the rest of the reports done. |
| 19:42.00 | simph1 | POINT: |
| 19:42.04 | kathryngz | If you sign on as an area office person, then click the reports tab, you can see the reports. |
| 19:42.16 | kathryngz | Point is? |
| 19:42.17 | kathryngz | :) |
| 19:42.19 | simph1 | I type 80 wpm... i know xsl... xml... do you need that? |
| 19:42.40 | simph1 | ok ok im a all rounder... |
| 19:42.41 | kathryngz | I don't think so, though we could consider it if it offered a clear advantage. |
| 19:42.47 | simph1 | lol... ok |
| 19:42.53 | simph1 | listening... |
| 19:43.08 | simph1 | IDEA: |
| 19:43.30 | kathryngz | So basically, your task (should you choose to accept it ;) ) would be to write the SQL queries for these reports, then put the data into the HTML framework. |
| 19:43.39 | simph1 | what me and you need... is a lab setup... which i already have... where we can test example data... and work together... |
| 19:44.15 | kathryngz | Actually, that's what BSIR is too, if I'm understanding you right. It's our dev site, and we have fake data already in the database. |
| 19:44.29 | simph1 | ok... i mean i would need access to the field names etc |
| 19:44.31 | kathryngz | Let me get you the name of the report that is already done... |
| 19:44.38 | simph1 | and what queries you need |
| 19:44.41 | kathryngz | Right... that's why you need to either talk to Tim Riker or Alan Smoot. |
| 19:44.47 | simph1 | exactly! |
| 19:45.04 | kathryngz | You would need to write the queries based on the HTML wireframes that have been created (which were based on the screen shots in the old user guide). |
| 19:45.06 | kathryngz | Make sense? |
| 19:45.09 | simph1 | want me to log in to my computer at home right now... start up my server and show you... my query stuff...? |
| 19:45.33 | kathryngz | the purpose being? |
| 19:46.14 | simph1 | it shows you how i add... remove... insert... delete... using a webpage... records... and it prints out using a query all the items as if it was a report |
| 19:46.34 | simph1 | utilizing php/html techniques |
| 19:46.45 | simph1 | connects to a mysql database |
| 19:46.50 | simph1 | it adds data... |
| 19:46.54 | simph1 | removes records... |
| 19:46.55 | kathryngz | I don't think so, though I appreciate the offer. |
| 19:46.59 | simph1 | lol... |
| 19:47.17 | kathryngz | I'd rather have you focus on writing the queries, if you're good with that. |
| 19:47.22 | simph1 | yes |
| 19:47.35 | kathryngz | k, hold on--I'm going to find the one report that is done so you can see it :) |
| 19:47.36 | simph1 | im giving you 20hrs a week ... of my time |
| 19:47.43 | kathryngz | Wow!!! That is fantastic! |
| 19:47.52 | kathryngz | I bet you'll be able to whiz through these reports. |
| 19:48.01 | kathryngz | I hope that won't put a dent in the time you need for school, though... |
| 19:48.03 | simph1 | maybe... depends on the complexities |
| 19:48.07 | simph1 | nah |
| 19:48.11 | kathryngz | k, hold on and let me get you the link. |
| 19:48.20 | simph1 | i did a 25 question NETWORKING complex test in 35mins... ; |
| 19:48.33 | simph1 | thank you... /msg me |
| 19:48.42 | simph1 | this channel is public |
| 19:49.33 | kathryngz | What did that just do? |
| 19:55.41 | TimRiker | gets back from lunch and reads up. :) |
| 19:58.00 | simph1 | me and kathryn... are working on getting me all the field names etc workbench |
| 20:00.02 | simph1 | Hi Tim... :) nice to see you back... im in college... but they are talking kindergarden stuff... lol |
| 20:00.02 | TimRiker | wow. a lot to read. |
| 20:00.08 | simph1 | bored out of my mind... |
| 20:00.22 | simph1 | 1 + 2 = 3... is the last comment the teacher just said... wow! |
| 20:00.32 | TimRiker | simph1, the current site is not supposed to be secure. that should be obvious with the usernames and passwords listed right on the first page in clear text. |
| 20:00.47 | TimRiker | those will NOT be there when we go to production obviously. |
| 20:00.50 | simph1 | thats correct... :0 |
| 20:00.58 | simph1 | of course... lol... |
| 20:01.07 | simph1 | we were having a bit of fun... |
| 20:01.11 | simph1 | ;) |
| 20:01.23 | TimRiker | the thing you should not be able to see is the mysql database credentials. those should be secure now. |
| 20:01.29 | simph1 | whilst i was bored to tears |
| 20:01.42 | TimRiker | I added you to the project on tech.lds.org |
| 20:01.42 | simph1 | exactly... i wanted to make sure of that . . . |
| 20:02.06 | TimRiker | there's info there pointing to the test site and jira (bugs) and svn (version control) |
| 20:02.24 | simph1 | i think i saw that.. |
| 20:02.33 | TimRiker | you can check out the source code (again, without db credentials) from there and if you like, you can setup a local copy. that's how I debug. |
| 20:02.59 | simph1 | yeah thats what i was going to do ... |
| 20:03.03 | TimRiker | or at the moment (but not later in production) svn commits are applied to the live site. (it's on a test server at present) |
| 20:03.04 | simph1 | on my wamp server |
| 20:03.21 | simph1 | is it using localhost? |
| 20:03.25 | simph1 | or something else... |
| 20:03.29 | TimRiker | cool. there is a schema under db/ that you need to create. I run it on localhost, yes. |
| 20:03.30 | kathryngz | So I don't need the email the workbench file, then. |
| 20:03.39 | kathryngz | It's in the trunk/db folder. |
| 20:03.45 | simph1 | nice.. so no need to change credentials for connection then |
| 20:03.51 | TimRiker | nods |
| 20:04.01 | simph1 | thank you tim... i want to get this done asap for you guys.. |
| 20:04.08 | simph1 | im giving 20hrs a week |
| 20:04.13 | TimRiker | you need to add them. there should be a template file there, but I don't think there is at the moment. I'll add one. |
| 20:04.24 | simph1 | ok... what i need more than anything... is |
| 20:04.33 | simph1 | field names... of all tables to be queried |
| 20:04.41 | simph1 | and the queries you need... |
| 20:05.02 | simph1 | like... i need to know how many tins of tomatoes we have and we need to have name of manager of center... and these fields... |
| 20:05.25 | simph1 | or are we making it up? |
| 20:06.21 | simph1 | kathryn is showing me where to look for the stuff... |
| 20:08.03 | kathryngz | Hey, I just remembered... the reports are defined in the wiki :) |
| 20:08.14 | kathryngz | Do you have the BSIR wiki link? |
| 20:08.19 | simph1 | ok ill check that too... give me a day or so to get up to speed... |
| 20:08.23 | simph1 | yes |
| 20:08.31 | simph1 | ill read it... |
| 20:09.08 | TimRiker | yes. there's a functional spec in the wiki. https://tech.lds.org/wiki/BSIR_functional_specifications |
| 20:09.44 | simph1 | getting to speed... wow this has been a rollercoaster ride... |
| 20:10.36 | simph1 | thank you guys for being patient... i am trying to get my feet out of this deep hole... of mud... and get myself used to your system... :) |
| 20:10.58 | kathryngz | You're doing phenomenally! |
| 20:11.21 | kathryngz | Yes, check out the wiki specs. The area office reports are defined under... Area Office :) |
| 20:11.23 | simph1 | as long as you can put up with my bantering... it helps me get to speed real fast... |
| 20:17.11 | TimRiker | simph1, I added a README.txt in web/includes/ to get you started once you've checked out the source. |
| 20:17.31 | simph1 | thank you tim |
| 20:17.45 | simph1 | basically i was just debating to myself... |
| 20:17.57 | TimRiker | svn links etc. are here: https://tech.lds.org/index.php/talent-profile?controller=projects&view=joinproject&joinid=405 |
| 20:17.57 | simph1 | that i know how to do all the database stuffs... queries... reports... etc |
| 20:18.08 | TimRiker | luvs those nice short urls... NOT |
| 20:18.10 | simph1 | i know how to code all languages practically... |
| 20:18.13 | kathryngz | Tim, any way I can make a private chat show up at the same time as this public one? |
| 20:18.13 | simph1 | lol.. |
| 20:18.25 | kathryngz | I could look it up but it's faster to ask you <g> |
| 20:18.27 | simph1 | and now im learning networking... ;) |
| 20:18.48 | TimRiker | kathryngz, depends on the irc client. in xchat I can detach chats into different windows, but I rarely do. :) |
| 20:19.28 | simph1 | i use mIRC |
| 20:19.40 | TimRiker | ah xchat windows. yes, right click on a channel in the channel window and pick detach. |
| 20:19.50 | kathryngz | How do you detach them, and what does it signify that your message to me showed up in a different color? |
| 20:19.56 | kathryngz | And how did you do that? |
| 20:19.57 | kathryngz | :) |
| 20:20.02 | simph1 | lol... |
| 20:20.11 | TimRiker | simph1, fine. I use XChat, but mIRC is popular too. |
| 20:20.30 | simph1 | sometimes i hate this college... they are a fasttrack ... 1 month to learn everything ... where some colleges get 3 or 4 months... crazy huh |
| 20:20.38 | TimRiker | XChat colors msgs if they contain your nick or keywords you enter in preferences. |
| 20:20.48 | kathryngz | oh, okay. |
| 20:20.56 | TimRiker | so this is plain |
| 20:21.00 | TimRiker | kathryngz, and this is colored |
| 20:21.11 | kathryngz | TimRiker |
| 20:21.18 | kathryngz | TimRiker this is a test |
| 20:21.22 | simph1 | :) |
| 20:21.25 | kathryngz | Okay, why didn't it work for me? |
| 20:21.31 | kathryngz | Or does it just show up in color for you? |
| 20:21.33 | TimRiker | start typing and nick, and normally <tab> will complete the nickname and add a comma, or : or whatever. settable in prefs. |
| 20:21.38 | kathryngz | And how do I split the window? |
| 20:21.41 | TimRiker | yes, shows as color for me. |
| 20:21.46 | kathryngz | TimRiker, this is another test |
| 20:21.58 | kathryngz | I tried the tab and it inserted a comma, but stayed black. |
| 20:22.01 | kathryngz | Oh, okwy. |
| 20:22.06 | simph1 | wouldnt you type /msg timriker hello boyo... |
| 20:22.09 | TimRiker | ~x en jp This should show as color for kathryngz too |
| 20:22.15 | kathryngz | Yes, it does. |
| 20:22.20 | kathryngz | So how do I split the windows? |
| 20:22.35 | kathryngz | I want to see a private and public chat at the same time instead of having to click between them. |
| 20:22.41 | simph1 | sounds complex... lol |
| 20:22.47 | kathryngz | Don't like to use the mouse if I can avoid it, lol! |
| 20:22.52 | TimRiker | I don't try that. there might be a way. but you can "detach" a window and have multple windows open. |
| 20:23.59 | kathryngz | Aha--it's under File > Detach. |
| 20:24.01 | kathryngz | Cool. |
| 20:24.10 | kathryngz | And now, that being said, I'm starving and am going to lunch. |
| 20:24.13 | kathryngz | Catch you later! |
| 20:24.36 | kathryngz | heads off to get a delicious salad! |
| 20:24.37 | simph1 | dont say that... |
| 20:24.45 | simph1 | im stuck in class until 2 |
| 20:24.46 | simph1 | lol |
| 20:24.46 | kathryngz | Don't say what? |
| 20:24.51 | simph1 | im starving!!! |
| 20:24.57 | kathryngz | Oh, sorry!!! That's like eating a picnic in front of someone who's fasting |
| 20:25.10 | kathryngz | Never mind, I'm going to have a boring salad which you probably wouldn't want anyway. |
| 20:25.21 | kathryngz | You're not really hungry. These aren't the droids you're looking for. |
| 20:25.24 | kathryngz | Move along, move along. |
| 20:25.36 | kathryngz | leaves before someone throws tomatoes... |
| 20:26.04 | TimRiker | this is not the salad you are looking for |
| 20:26.09 | kathryngz | ROFL! :) |
| 20:26.26 | kathryngz | really is laughing out loud, and now I'm really standing up and walking to the kitchen. |
| 20:26.32 | kathryngz | Too bad we can't eat virtual food, lol! |
| 20:26.41 | kathryngz | But Elder Bednar would have something to say about that <g> |
| 20:29.10 | *** join/#ldstech aamonson (d831b5fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.49.181.254) |
| 20:31.27 | TimRiker | ~give kathryngz a cookie |
| 20:31.27 | infobot | ACTION gives kathryngz a home-baked chocolate chip cookie to cheer him up. |
| 20:31.46 | TimRiker | hehe. him. |
| 20:38.07 | simph1 | hey guys... in a bit im heading back home from class... |
| 20:38.38 | simph1 | ill spend a couple of hours reading and making notes on the task you have given me and the info on the site etc... and ill make a way for the reports to be done easier... |
| 20:38.44 | simph1 | thanks tim! |
| 20:38.55 | simph1 | thanks Alan... HAPPY BIRTHDAY! :) |
| 20:48.55 | TimRiker | cya soon simph1 |
| 20:53.16 | simph1 | leaving for home now... |
| 20:57.29 | kathryngz | TimRiker, lol! Will the next upgrade to the bot include gender recognition? ;) |
| 20:57.48 | TimRiker | heh. nope. the bot has issues there all it's own. |
| 20:57.50 | TimRiker | ~gender |
| 20:57.51 | infobot | I'm lesbian |
| 20:57.54 | TimRiker | ~gender |
| 20:57.55 | infobot | I'm gay |
| 20:57.55 | kathryngz | Oops!! |
| 20:57.57 | TimRiker | ~gender |
| 20:57.57 | infobot | I'm sexless |
| 20:58.00 | TimRiker | ~gender |
| 20:58.00 | infobot | I'm hermaphroditic |
| 20:58.03 | TimRiker | ~gender |
| 20:58.03 | infobot | I'm sexless |
| 20:58.07 | kathryngz | poor bot is very confused. |
| 20:58.07 | TimRiker | etc. |
| 20:58.10 | TimRiker | indeed |
| 20:58.44 | TimRiker | ~literal gender |
| 20:58.44 | infobot | "gender" is "<reply> I'm (gay|lesbian|female|sexless|male|hermaphroditic|pregnant|not sure)" |
| 20:59.13 | kathryngz | I'm not even going to go there :) |
| 20:59.21 | TimRiker | perhaps not office safe... ah well. |
| 21:00.04 | kathryngz | So... how did you think of checking IE translation on the feedback page?? I am impressed, and that has to hold the key to the problem. |
| 21:00.07 | kathryngz | Do you already know the key? |
| 21:00.22 | kathryngz | (No sense in my looking for it if you've already found it :) ) |
| 21:00.53 | kathryngz | By the way, someone needs to tell the bot that "pregnant" is not a gender... |
| 21:01.02 | TimRiker | nope. I was just looking for the "select" language and found the different translation implementations. |
| 21:01.17 | TimRiker | hehe. true that. |
| 21:01.21 | kathryngz | I had totally forgotten about it. It was written quite a while ago. |
| 21:01.30 | kathryngz | Anyway, you ROCK! That was exactly the clue we needed. |
| 21:01.50 | TimRiker | so is the main page working now? |
| 21:02.05 | kathryngz | No, I thought it was more important to eat my salad than do some coding ;) |
| 21:02.15 | kathryngz | But as soon as my salad is done, I'm on it :) |
| 21:02.25 | TimRiker | sweet |
| 21:02.49 | kathryngz | the cookie? |
| 21:02.51 | kathryngz | ;) |
| 21:06.20 | TimRiker | feedback has no html headers etc. I guess IE just hates valid html |
| 21:06.56 | kathryngz | Oh, no :\ |
| 21:08.06 | kathryngz | So the code that works in feedback may not work in the other document. |
| 21:12.47 | TimRiker | dunno. I added xhtml headers to feedback tell me if that breaks something. :( |
| 21:13.21 | TimRiker | I'm using the "total validator" plugin for firefox to look at html syntax issues. |
| 21:13.39 | kathryngz | I should get that. |
| 21:13.48 | TimRiker | the w3c validator is nice, but only works on public pages. |
| 21:14.00 | kathryngz | Yes. |
| 21:14.15 | smootar | Kathryn: Do you know what the priority order of the queries is? |
| 21:14.19 | TimRiker | http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=https%3A%2F%2Ftech.lds.org%2Fbsir%2Ffeedback.php&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=Inline&group=0 |
| 21:14.32 | smootar | Is it in priority order on the wiki page? |
| 21:15.05 | kathryngz | Good question, Alan, they're just in tab/link order, not priority. |
| 21:15.25 | kathryngz | The HQ reports are last priority, per Rick. All the incomplete Area Office reports would be the other priority. |
| 21:15.37 | smootar | Are you OK if I talk with Ralph Howse and get the priority order of these reports? |
| 21:15.49 | kathryngz | Absolutely--or is that something you would like me to do? |
| 21:16.42 | kathryngz | Tim, the feedback page is still working. You committed your changes, right? |
| 21:16.50 | smootar | I will talk to him about it. |
| 21:17.04 | kathryngz | Sounds good. Let me know what you find out. |
| 21:22.30 | TimRiker | kathryngz, feedback looks like it does not use tr_ names |
| 21:23.23 | kathryngz | right. |
| 21:23.25 | TimRiker | yes, the live feedback.php has xhtml headers added. I'm looking at tr_ issues there now. |
| 21:23.35 | kathryngz | It just uses .tr |
| 21:24.05 | kathryngz | I started using ID's and class of tr, then realized it would duplicate a lot of translations since ID's have to be unique. |
| 21:24.27 | kathryngz | So I scrapped the ID's and made each translatable element have a class starting with "tr_" and ending with the JSON key. |
| 21:26.16 | TimRiker | nods |
| 21:26.19 | kathryngz | But never made those changes to the feedback page. |
| 21:26.28 | kathryngz | If it ain't broke... |
| 21:26.29 | kathryngz | <g> |
| 21:48.27 | TimRiker | well, it has the multiple id issue, but so does every other page we have. |
| 21:48.54 | TimRiker | looking at login.php. commited an indent to get me started. |
| 21:49.30 | TimRiker | looks liek changing the iteration is the key. Wish I had an xp vm here to test on my dev box. |
| 21:49.39 | TimRiker | s/leik/like/ |
| 21:52.39 | kathryngz | We need to fix the multiple ID's... wasn't aware of that. |
| 21:54.34 | smootar | Kathryn: What languages are we still needing translation for? French in progress, Spanish done?, Portuguese? |
| 21:55.21 | kathryngz | Spanish screens 98% done (except for new validation messages which I'm currently putting in place) |
| 21:55.28 | kathryngz | Spanish user guide just started this morning. |
| 21:55.44 | kathryngz | French screen translation and user guide translation just started in the last two days. |
| 21:56.02 | kathryngz | We sent portugues translation to a contact of Tim's but haven't heard back. |
| 21:56.19 | kathryngz | *Portuguese |
| 21:56.35 | smootar | Should we send Portuguese to a larger audience? |
| 21:56.50 | kathryngz | TimRiker, any word back from Alex on Portuguese translation? |
| 21:57.12 | smootar | Are there other languages? |
| 21:57.21 | kathryngz | Not at this point. |
| 21:57.35 | kathryngz | We joked about Chinese in the future ;) |
| 21:58.39 | kathryngz | Probably wouldn't hurt. |
| 21:58.46 | kathryngz | Even though it's the lowest priority. |
| 22:21.36 | smootar | Kathryn or Tim: What is the update on the IE Bug? |
| 22:25.59 | smootar | ~lart timriker |
| 22:25.59 | infobot | executes killall -HUP timriker |
| 22:33.57 | TimRiker | still beating on js issues for IE. I could use a test machine with ie installed.... |
| 22:34.40 | kathryngz | Isn't it crazy? I went around the block and back again trying everything I could think of |
| 22:34.50 | TimRiker | nods |
| 22:34.57 | kathryngz | You came up with the best clue, which was the feedback page! At least we have an example of something that works! |
| 22:35.22 | TimRiker | it's a start |
| 22:35.27 | kathryngz | Yes, and a good one. |
| 22:35.37 | kathryngz | While you're doing that, should I clean up the duplicate id's? |
| 22:35.43 | kathryngz | I'm downloading the plugin you mentioned. |
| 22:35.51 | kathryngz | I assume that will highlight them... |
| 22:36.02 | TimRiker | installing ie7 on ubuntu now. ugh |
| 22:36.10 | kathryngz | Condolances. |
| 22:36.24 | kathryngz | Or maybe Condolendes. Does this thing have a spellchecker? |
| 22:36.25 | kathryngz | :) |
| 22:36.31 | kathryngz | *Condolences!!!! |
| 22:36.34 | kathryngz | Sheesh :) |
| 22:37.20 | kathryngz | So Alan, to answer your question, Tim is very close to solving it :) |
| 22:37.28 | TimRiker | yeah, right. :) |
| 22:37.37 | kathryngz | See? :) |
| 22:41.52 | kathryngz | Seriously, I think we're very close... we have a code sample that works on one page. Now we (Tim) just has to make it work on the other pages. |
| 22:42.59 | kathryngz | Okay, I have just installed Total Validator. |
| 22:44.37 | TimRiker | great. all I'm managed to get is and ie7 that fills my screen with useless javascript error messages. |
| 22:45.09 | kathryngz | Yes. Did you notice that the access error pointed to a bracket in the jQuery library file? |
| 22:45.10 | kathryngz | :( |
| 22:45.14 | kathryngz | Very helpful. |
| 22:45.39 | TimRiker | trying an alternate ie7 installer.... |
| 22:45.45 | kathryngz | Oh joy... |
| 22:45.47 | kathryngz | ;) |
| 22:49.05 | TimRiker | gak |
| 22:49.17 | kathryngz | ? |
| 22:49.26 | TimRiker | feedback does not even work in the multiple ie7's I have installed. |
| 22:50.57 | kathryngz | Ah... I'm running 8. feedback.php works in both compatibility mode and regular mode. |
| 22:51.07 | kathryngz | I wonder what the field uses. |
| 22:51.30 | kathryngz | Do you know who could tell us? |
| 22:51.45 | kathryngz | I assume the Church keeps the storehouse computers standard like they do the FH computers, though I could be wrong. |
| 22:56.58 | TimRiker | no idea |
| 22:57.07 | kathryngz | I'll see if Rick knows. |
| 23:02.57 | TimRiker | got ie6 installed instead... login works, but language updates don't work on either page. |
| 23:03.09 | TimRiker | I think I'll head home where I can find a windows machine to test with. |
| 23:03.13 | kathryngz | Okaya. |
| 23:03.15 | kathryngz | Okay. |
| 23:03.38 | TimRiker | oh, no word from Alex yet. I'll email him again and ask. |
| 23:03.40 | kathryngz | BTW, I think someone sent out an email saying the Church would not be supporting IE6 any more, so I don't know that it's worth it to test in IE6. |
| 23:03.51 | kathryngz | That might have been in a family history email I got. |
| 23:03.55 | kathryngz | Thanks for following up with Alex. |
| 23:04.10 | TimRiker | yeah, just trying to get something working on ubuntu but failing. |
| 23:04.49 | kathryngz | http://blog.iampaddy.com/2009/09/01/venn-diagram-of-ie6/ |
| 23:21.33 | TimRiker | heads home. back online working from there. have fun! |
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