| 00:01:28 | Disconnect | found it. sz isn't nearly as important as rz ;) |
| 00:09:59 | Disconnect | btw don't dl task-bootstrap yet, am rsyncing it (so it updates in place) |
| 00:12:09 | Disconnect | also btw, I'll be out all day tomorrow. lift&carry duty (moving out of a colo) |
| 00:17:31 | Disconnect | ok new test task-bootstrap is up |
| 00:18:56 | DragonEagle | wants to be able to install intimate on a jffs2 so he can have his mobile develoment environment back |
| 00:39:27 | flypiper | Disconnect: d\l new image |
| 00:39:37 | Disconnect | flypiper: uploading again ;) |
| 00:39:50 | flypiper | OK cancelling |
| 00:40:08 | Disconnect | flypiper: timing is everything. started the ul, then came back here ;) |
| 00:40:18 | Disconnect | in THEORY this ver will use init, and give a shell on console. in practice, no idea. |
| 00:40:33 | flypiper | cool |
| 00:40:48 | Disconnect | oh and its missing sz |
| 00:40:56 | Disconnect | but it has rz |
| 00:41:08 | flypiper | should be fine |
| 00:41:28 | flypiper | long as it recieves..can load modules |
| 00:41:48 | Disconnect | yep |
| 00:42:28 | Disconnect | do me a fav - load the module via dpkg.. |
| 00:43:24 | flypiper | which one has smc91c92.cs.o?? |
| 00:43:59 | Disconnect | um. no idea. |
| 00:45:16 | flypiper | module for meghz card |
| 00:45:38 | Disconnect | ok the jffs2 is ready |
| 00:45:47 | flypiper | grabbing |
| 00:55:05 | Disconnect | btw anyone else around? |
| 00:55:47 | Disconnect | re all the talk on the list about gpg keys, verification, etc. Kiss doesn't need that - frankly, I don't give a fsck who you are IRL. I just care that the person I 'validate' as a package maintainer is the same person who uploads. |
| 00:55:55 | Disconnect | anything beyond that is just noise. |
| 00:59:56 | flypiper | .... |
| 01:00:57 | Disconnect | hang on, explaining to fiance, then explain here ;) |
| 01:01:35 | flypiper | tell sienna..hello |
| 01:02:40 | Disconnect | she says hi |
| 01:03:52 | Disconnect | ok. so the familiar/CRL guys have decided on a debian-style package maintainer system. maintainer gets 'vouched' in, sends his public key, and then goes to meet with an already-validated debian maintainer, who checks his id and then vouches for his key. |
| 01:04:15 | Disconnect | basically they are doing the same thing (including using debian maintainers as "notaries") .. |
| 01:04:39 | flypiper | ahhhh |
| 01:04:43 | Disconnect | my take on it (as I just said to Sienna) is.. "It doesn't matter WHO I am, it just matters that I'm ME.." |
| 01:04:51 | Disconnect | the keys authenticate that easily enough. |
| 01:05:00 | flypiper | yep |
| 01:05:08 | flypiper | flashing |
| 01:05:10 | Disconnect | will prolly do the fingerprint-via-phone thing (which is step 1 in the debian/CRL version) but other than that.. |
| 01:07:00 | DragonEagle | Disconnect: fingerprint-via-phone? |
| 01:07:14 | Disconnect | DragonEagle: yah. verbal "validation" of the gpg fingerprint. |
| 01:07:29 | Disconnect | which doesn't prove you are Joe Smith, but DOES prove you are the person who sent the key. |
| 01:07:37 | Disconnect | could care less about the "Joe Smith" side of things. |
| 01:14:09 | flypiper | pef ...boot> |
| 01:15:08 | Disconnect | yeppers |
| 01:17:28 | flypiper | net/configed....now install-kiss & |
| 01:19:35 | Disconnect | COOL :) |
| 01:20:54 | DragonEagle | Disconnect: you bounced |
| 01:21:19 | Disconnect | DragonEagle: ok. so thats an old message? ;) |
| 01:34:15 | Disconnect | still ok? |
| 01:34:46 | Disconnect | wow someone heard of kiss already. like completely unrelated (they joined #ipaq) |
| 01:40:10 | Disconnect | dumb question. apt-get in busybox..? I heard it was jamey, then heard it was someone else.. |
| 01:40:38 | flypiper | done |
| 01:40:43 | epac | so Disconnect, tell me more :o) |
| 01:40:55 | Disconnect | epac: flypiper is (so far) our big tester ;) |
| 01:40:59 | Disconnect | he's trying the new ver now. |
| 01:41:13 | flypiper | hang on..not finished |
| 01:41:25 | Disconnect | hehe |
| 01:41:29 | epac | ok, i'm ready to flash :o)~~ tell me more .. :o) |
| 01:41:46 | epac | Keep It Simple Stupid ? |
| 01:41:47 | Disconnect | DragonEagle: busybox-dpkg works great.. so what I'm hoping is the apt-get will as well, since its just a pipe to busybox-wget |
| 01:42:06 | Disconnect | epac: s/stupid/sh*thead/ was how I learned it. but yah, and it fits with the whole familiar/intimate thing. |
| 01:42:17 | DragonEagle | Disconnect: isn't there more to it than that? |
| 01:42:38 | Disconnect | DragonEagle: not really. parse dependencies (busybox-dpkg can do that) and wget packages. |
| 01:42:53 | Disconnect | DragonEagle: install in the correct order is the only piece that isn't already in busybox. |
| 01:43:02 | epac | disconnect: what would be the req for it ? |
| 01:43:40 | Disconnect | epac: req? one of the goals is flash/ext integration. so it runs fine off flash (based off busybox, so smaller than fam) and if you have other storage (nfs, udrive, etc) it automatically detects that. |
| 01:44:01 | Disconnect | epac: for 1.0, its just a dpkg version of fam. only we're not quite there ;) |
| 01:44:31 | epac | s/req/requierment/ (need to lgo back to school for spelling classes) |
| 01:44:46 | Disconnect | heh |
| 01:44:58 | epac | what do you mean by flash/ext integration ? |
| 01:44:59 | DragonEagle | Disconnect: install in order should be fairly easy |
| 01:45:40 | Disconnect | DragonEagle: that was my thought as well. |
| 01:46:13 | DragonEagle | just check/install the dependant packages (recursively?) first |
| 01:46:36 | Disconnect | yah. but loops suck. ;) |
| 01:47:09 | DragonEagle | Disconnect: so does string handeling in C |
| 01:47:25 | Disconnect | hehe |
| 01:48:05 | DragonEagle | fortunately in most cases, they are short loops |
| 01:48:16 | DragonEagle | what about handleing of multiple feeds? |
| 01:48:40 | Disconnect | one packages info file. |
| 01:48:45 | Disconnect | so no biggie. |
| 01:48:59 | Disconnect | the only diff between feed1 and feed2 is url, which can be arbitrary. |
| 01:49:34 | DragonEagle | ok, so in this instance, package a in feed X and package b is in feed Z? |
| 01:50:05 | Disconnect | ..so it just knows package a and b, with arbitrary urls. |
| 01:50:32 | DragonEagle | so instead of a filename entry in the Packages file, it's a url? |
| 01:50:32 | Disconnect | v2 can 'optimize' things like ftp connections. but v1 .. just needs to go "wget dpkg -i wget dpkg -i .." (or - config option? - wget wget weget .. dpkg..) |
| 01:51:20 | Disconnect | DragonEagle: both perhaps. filename is needed for dpkg. saves processing. url gives us wget stuff. |
| 01:51:20 | Disconnect | DragonEagle: and "real" apt/dpkg will ignore extra fields. |
| 01:51:23 | Disconnect | so we do stock packages file, with an added filed. |
| 01:51:23 | Disconnect | er field |
| 01:52:45 | DragonEagle | had a thought, you can do what you want with it, but I think we should be able to handle ipkgs as debs too. |
| 01:52:59 | DragonEagle | has always been a firm believer in backwards compatability |
| 01:52:59 | Disconnect | yep. thats another goal of kiss ;) |
| 01:53:25 | DragonEagle | an ipkg is basically a deb anyways, right? |
| 01:53:37 | Disconnect | IIRC there is an ipkg that installs deb now. so all we need is a deb that installs ipkg (easy) |
| 01:53:47 | Disconnect | yah, only tar instead of ar (and both are in busybox) |
| 01:53:57 | DragonEagle | :) |
| 01:54:05 | Disconnect | again, tag jamey. he's doing (coordinating? dunno) most of the busybox stuff, independent of kiss. |
| 01:54:09 | Disconnect | flypiper: how we doing? |
| 01:54:21 | DragonEagle | so that's what a 3 line patch (assuming you bracket your if clauses :-) ) |
| 01:54:26 | flypiper | xserver-ipaq.. |
| 01:54:30 | Disconnect | flypiper: cool |
| 01:54:51 | Disconnect | flypiper: btw the packages haven't been updated, so it should come out the same as before (as good or bad as that may be ;) ..) |
| 01:55:16 | flypiper | OK... |
| 01:56:04 | Disconnect | so.. no great objections to my "slashing" of the maintainer req? |
| 01:57:22 | flypiper | done...do I need to do sync,,,,, |
| 01:57:29 | epac | so what are the main differences with familiar at this point, beside: -handling of .deb/.ipk -use of Busybox_arm ? |
| 01:57:49 | DragonEagle | use of Busybox_arm |
| 01:58:19 | Disconnect | and a way smaller boostrap, and a 'base' that has X, etc. but busybox and deb is the big diff. |
| 01:58:33 | epac | how much space difference ? |
| 01:59:16 | Disconnect | epac: task-bootstrap for fam is roughly equiv to task-bootstrap here. our task-bootstrap is 2M. task-base is 7M .. their task-base (w/o X, etc) is also about 7M (6.5?) |
| 02:00:05 | Disconnect | has to eat and crash. (leaving the house at an ungodly hour tomorrow :( ..) |
| 02:00:15 | Disconnect | with any luck I'll be back here tomorrow afternoon. but so far, luck hasn't been with me ;) |
| 02:00:20 | Disconnect | night all! |
| 02:00:26 | DragonEagle | sleep well |
| 02:00:32 | Disconnect | flypiper: btw I'll update the packages tomorrow whenever I get home, so the whole mess uses init, etc. |
| 02:00:34 | Disconnect | cya DragonEagle |
| 02:01:09 | flypiper | Disconnect: cya |
| 02:01:22 | epac | ! |
| 02:01:23 | epac | oops |
| 02:01:26 | epac | sorry |
| 02:21:53 | DragonEagle | is away: I'm getting a movie and will probably be gone for the better part of the evening |
| 02:22:23 | epac | l8r |
| 02:24:11 | flypiper | calls it a rap.....have a good nite.^ |
| 11:27:59 | prh | is back (gone 00:02:30) |
| 16:56:35 | DragonEagle | is back (gone 01:10:05) |
| 19:41:59 | bipolar | quiet today... |
| 19:42:24 | france | yes, that is good, I have much work to get done. |
| 19:42:56 | bipolar | france: :) |
| 20:53:19 | epac | ls -al |
| 20:53:23 | epac | oops :o0 |
| 20:53:40 | epac | flypiper: how did it go yesterday ? |
| 20:57:25 | flypiper | epac..just have some odds&ends loose.. |
| 20:57:44 | flypiper | epac: it's still sweet!! |
| 20:57:51 | epac | something i can help with ? :o)~~~ |
| 20:58:59 | flypiper | epac: not sure...have some libs to link...and I think Disconnect was gonna burn another test image for me today. |
| 20:59:22 | flypiper | epac: thanks for the offer! |
| 21:00:36 | flypiper | DragonEagle: hey |
| 21:06:33 | DragonEagle | hey hey |
| 21:12:21 | epac | is Disconnect around ? |
| 21:20:28 | flypiper | is headed home after a 400 mile day...bbiab |
| 22:41:46 | flypiper | is away ...playing with html |
| 22:50:52 | Disconnect | epac: I will be in a bit (right now I've had a bad day and am going to sit a bit ;) ..) |
| 22:50:56 | Disconnect | so everyone "queue up" the problems, suggestions, etc and I'll go after them when I get in for real. |
| 22:53:47 | flypiper | grabbs his notes |
| 22:56:49 | prh | well everyone how is the smooching? |
| 22:57:20 | prh | no life - oh well time for a quikc shower and bed then :) |
| 22:57:22 | prh | taarrraaa |
| 22:57:28 | prh | is away: zzZZZzzzzz |
| 23:05:58 | Disconnect | is back |
| 23:06:03 | Disconnect | so whats the word? |
| 23:06:15 | Disconnect | had the thought that doing a from-scratch build might work pretty well. but take bloody forever. |
| 23:06:38 | Disconnect | unless someone has a 64M ipaq w/ drive and intermittant access to bandwidth (for uploading) |
| 23:08:29 | flypiper | Disconnect: still have shared lib problems ..libXft.so.1,libXmuu.so.1,libXtst.so.6,libXi.so.6 |
| 23:08:40 | Disconnect | damnit. |
| 23:08:50 | Disconnect | are they on the drive? (please say yes, please say yes..) |
| 23:09:28 | flypiper | they look like they are..but |
| 23:09:39 | flypiper | let me find them again.. |
| 23:09:41 | Disconnect | ok good. |
| 23:09:53 | Disconnect | wget kiss.handhelds.org/ldconfig .. chmod +x ldconfig ; ./ldconfig |
| 23:10:45 | epac | Disconnect does it include gcc ? |
| 23:11:26 | Disconnect | epac: not yet. 1.0 is basically familiar, only smaller. 1.1 is flash/udrive integration (and with any luck, debian integration - certainly by 1.2) |
| 23:11:44 | Disconnect | ..1.0 should be a week from tomorrow if anything goes well. 1.1 not long after. |
| 23:12:48 | epac | sounds good ! |
| 23:12:59 | epac | can't wait for you to tell me where to download it :o) |
| 23:13:04 | Disconnect | heh |
| 23:14:56 | france | :-) |
| 23:15:23 | france | greetings, until the wife comes home. |
| 23:16:57 | france | Disconnect: no finger prints will be required. (DNA samples) :-) no, just kidding. |
| 23:18:02 | Disconnect | france: for kiss, I don't care who they are, just that they are the same person I approved. |
| 23:18:56 | france | Disconnect: already discussed and resolved yesterday. Only issue is how do you verify that you have the correct person if they lose their key. |
| 23:19:13 | france | Disconnect: then life gets more complex, but not impossible. |
| 23:19:51 | Disconnect | yah. |
| 23:20:35 | france | Disconnect: please remember, that those that do the work, get to decide how things work, since Jamey is working on the system, he has the final say. If somebody wants to write code for a better system, I would be more than happy to implement it. |
| 23:22:39 | Disconnect | france: easily solved - I'll sign the keys for kiss developers. (and in point of fact, I -did- the scripts for a better version. almost a week ago now.) |
| 23:23:32 | france | Disconnect: there will be no need to sign keys only packages. |
| 23:24:19 | france | Disconnect: if you have a better system, you should send it to me or jamey. I am certain that Jamey would prefer not to re-create something. |
| 23:24:39 | france | Disconnect: Both of us would prefer to do other things. |
| 23:24:47 | Disconnect | france: from what I saw on the list yesterday (didn't do email today, was offline all day) its following the debian system. which requires validating ID -> user. |
| 23:24:57 | Disconnect | doesn't care -who- they are, just that they are the same person who was approved. |
| 23:25:14 | france | Disconnect: ready today's e-mail, then we can talk about it. |
| 23:25:18 | Disconnect | ok |
| 23:54:04 | Disconnect | is just about there for a pre-release (eg it won't do much, but what it does it'll do well. mostly just the installer and packaging system, sans apt-get.) |
| 23:54:37 | Disconnect | oh and its got init now, so ^C etc should work. |
| 23:59:49 | Disconnect | btw flypiper .. might as well use the channel, thats what its for ;) |