| 01:32:59 | | DragonEagle is the man |
| 01:32:59 | DragonEagle | ibot the man |
| 01:33:15 | Disconnect | although... a mapper (deb<->fam) would probably be easy enough. each package takes some interaction to set up, but after that its automagic |
| 01:33:32 | | Disconnect: i'm not following you... |
| 01:33:32 | Disconnect | ibot: kiss |
| 01:33:38 | Disconnect | ok good ;) |
| 01:34:14 | | bugger all, i dunno, dragoneagle |
| 01:34:14 | DragonEagle | ibot kiss is <reply> $who, what kind of a bot do you think I am? |
| 01:35:28 | DragonEagle | well, we can call it an attempt at a smoke screen |
| 01:36:15 | DragonEagle | Disconnect: as far as the deb dependencies are concerned, we can grab then directly from debian |
| 01:36:17 | Disconnect | it'll be public soon enough. I just want to have something first. |
| 01:36:38 | DragonEagle | I can make that part of the pkg converter |
| 01:37:00 | Disconnect | cool :) |
| 01:37:12 | sgodsell | btw you can make busybox installable, just change the library dependancies, so you can drop it in or out |
| 01:37:45 | sgodsell | taco bell rulez with monta zooma ;) |
| 01:37:48 | Disconnect | sgodsell: how so? installable is easy (thats the alternatives system) .. the trick is removing one section at a time ;) |
| 01:37:52 | bipolar_ | uploads his new Qtopia build. |
| 01:37:53 | Disconnect | monta zooma? |
| 01:38:11 | sgodsell | revenge ;) |
| 01:38:30 | Disconnect | ahh heh |
| 01:38:36 | sgodsell | You know monta zoomas revenge ;) |
| 01:38:42 | Disconnect | yah |
| 01:38:53 | Disconnect | was in mexico city for 3 months. ;) |
| 01:39:05 | Disconnect | so.. thoughts so far? |
| 01:40:41 | sgodsell | Hmmm, well it looks like you want to have a replacement for familiar, where kiss will use debian instead of ipkg |
| 01:40:43 | sgodsell | correct |
| 01:40:52 | Disconnect | mostly. |
| 01:41:02 | sgodsell | I have no problem with that |
| 01:41:35 | Disconnect | flash-based dist, with some different methodologies and a lack of "history" (stuff built up along the way, ala sed/awk/etc) |
| 01:42:17 | Disconnect | the big trick is debian compatibility |
| 01:42:23 | DragonEagle | dammit, what did I miss? |
| 01:42:43 | sgodsell | not too much |
| 01:43:22 | Disconnect | :Ø: DragonEagle has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds) |
| 01:43:22 | Disconnect | <sgodsell> Hmmm, well it looks like you want to have a replacement for familiar, where kiss will use debian instead of ipkg |
| 01:43:22 | Disconnect | <sgodsell> correct |
| 01:43:23 | Disconnect | <Disconnect> mostly. |
| 01:43:23 | Disconnect | <sgodsell> I have no problem with that |
| 01:43:24 | Disconnect | :Ø: DragonEagle [allen@24.246.177.51] has joined #kiss |
| 01:43:49 | DragonEagle | there is a size issue too |
| 01:43:58 | bipolar_ | Disconnect: do you have a base image that has ipkg in it? |
| 01:44:03 | DragonEagle | Disconnect: thx |
| 01:44:10 | Disconnect | bipolar_: no but I've got a base image w/ dpkg |
| 01:44:10 | bipolar_ | Disconnect: I'd like to test my new Qtopia build .:) |
| 01:44:22 | Disconnect | bipolar_: for that matter, I've got a 2M task-boot w/ dpkg. |
| 01:44:30 | bipolar_ | Disconnect: wow |
| 01:44:32 | sgodsell | So if busy box was installed, and if someone wants to use the real libc and files then there would be a problem |
| 01:44:44 | sgodsell | It really isn't a big problem |
| 01:45:00 | Disconnect | busybox is the real libc |
| 01:45:18 | Disconnect | the problem is real sed/awk/wget/etc .. but update-alternatives handles that. |
| 01:46:08 | sgodsell | I thought busybox used a different libc (a smaller version) |
| 01:46:20 | DragonEagle | sgodsell: that's completely optional |
| 01:46:43 | Disconnect | it can, but its not required. |
| 01:46:58 | sgodsell | Ah, ok |
| 01:47:41 | Disconnect | bipolar_: #handhelds.org, tell marnuke about it |
| 01:50:05 | Disconnect | ahh. there's a good point. SOURCE REPOSITORY - no packages w/o source (or incompatible license, but thats a question to worry about later) |
| 01:52:10 | DragonEagle | wonders if he's fallen off the net again |
| 01:53:14 | Disconnect | thoughts? require debian-standard tgz/patch/dsc? |
| 01:53:25 | Disconnect | it'll be hard for the standard fam stuff, but CRL will probably get behind it |
| 01:54:22 | DragonEagle | debian standard is a must, but isnt there also a way to make it understand tgz? |
| 01:54:41 | Disconnect | thats easy, jamey did it already. |
| 01:55:20 | Disconnect | I'm thinking mandatory source packages - solve the whole "where is X sources" and "which cvs tag is Y"... |
| 01:55:29 | sgodsell | Do you mean the data.tar.gz file inside the .deb file |
| 01:55:43 | Disconnect | no .. source package. |
| 01:55:48 | Disconnect | debian package is 3 files, plus bins. |
| 01:56:03 | DragonEagle | I'm all for that, when I'm putting a pkg together from source, I always create a dev pkg too, headers etc |
| 01:56:07 | Disconnect | package.tgz (sources) .. package.patch (/debian dir and other patches, if needed) and package.dsc (description file) |
| 01:56:14 | DragonEagle | probably not a bad practice imho |
| 01:56:48 | Disconnect | ..but how do we convert familiar.. hrm. will have to tag CRL tomorrow, see if they will get behind it |
| 01:57:33 | DragonEagle | it looks like most of CRL is already behind us |
| 01:57:46 | Disconnect | yep. so far (and w/in reason ;) ..) |
| 01:57:50 | sgodsell | Convert all the existing .ipkgs to .debs and gather up the source for all the ipkgs as well? |
| 01:57:53 | Disconnect | as it should be - so long as we are reasonable, they'll help :) |
| 01:58:23 | Disconnect | sgodsell: yah. converting is the easy part. sources are the hard part. |
| 01:58:48 | sgodsell | ;) |
| 01:59:20 | sgodsell | There really isn't any one clean place to get source from, yuk |
| 01:59:27 | sgodsell | hmmm |
| 02:00:39 | Disconnect | yah but no upgrades through the "nice" system without sources. |
| 02:00:59 | Disconnect | that'll solve it. either you can do the old method (and beg a7r, etc) or you can use the new system. but the new system doesn't like binary-only packages. |
| 02:01:10 | Disconnect | (overrides as needed - eg, xserver from CRL) |
| 02:01:38 | sgodsell | Just gathering up all the source would take a long time, not to mention if you want clean source that actually builds the binaries then each item/program/app has to be build and tested |
| 02:01:48 | sgodsell | THAT IS A BIG YUK |
| 02:02:33 | Disconnect | sgodsell: we need to do a buildd box eventually anyway, to do armv4l debian. for now, just having sources will make life easier for the rest of the world. |
| 02:02:35 | sgodsell | Come to think of it that is how it should be done in the first place |
| 02:02:57 | Disconnect | buildd has been an intimate goal for a while. it'd work just as well for kiss. |
| 02:04:25 | DragonEagle | hey fly |
| 02:04:28 | Disconnect | flypiper: just in time for the tail end of the project meeting :) |
| 02:04:55 | Disconnect | ok so short-term tasking. |
| 02:04:57 | flypiper | sorry..had an emergency..change heat unit in wife's car |
| 02:05:05 | flypiper | what did I miss? |
| 02:05:07 | Disconnect | me: task-base packages, clean up task-boot. |
| 02:05:15 | Disconnect | DragonEagle: ipk->deb conversion. |
| 02:05:23 | flypiper | cooool |
| 02:05:58 | Disconnect | bbrox: has apt-get in busybox perhaps, I need to get it. |
| 02:06:08 | Disconnect | jamey: has ipk support in busybox. I need that too ;) |
| 02:06:16 | Disconnect | we still need someone to webmaster. |
| 02:06:21 | flypiper | both would be great! |
| 02:07:03 | flypiper | I could help with the web...but man I am crammed right now |
| 02:07:19 | Disconnect | oh. also, me.. upgrade task-b* to 2.4.16 |
| 02:07:33 | flypiper | I gotta burn that!!! |
| 02:07:49 | Disconnect | heh so far its still got some issues I think. but shortly. |
| 02:08:05 | sgodsell | Hello flypiper |
| 02:08:11 | flypiper | I will help ya sort them out |
| 02:08:16 | Disconnect | flypiper: also.. http://www.handhelds.org/pipermail/familiar/2001-September/002407.html <- we're doing this, so that package maintainers can actually maintain packages. |
| 02:08:22 | flypiper | sgodsell: evening |
| 02:08:46 | flypiper | wonderful, I will check it out |
| 02:08:56 | Disconnect | flypiper: btw sienna (fiance) says hi |
| 02:09:27 | flypiper | Disconnect: tell her hi....and you will have to squeeze her for me! |
| 02:09:43 | DragonEagle | Disconnect: the decisions made tonight need to be put in writting somewhere |
| 02:09:55 | Disconnect | DragonEagle: yep. they are on my wall :) |
| 02:10:10 | DragonEagle | hmmm, I ment somewhere a little more public :P |
| 02:10:25 | Disconnect | hehe |
| 02:10:37 | DragonEagle | I for one am not going to the other side of the country to see the whiteboard:) |
| 02:10:47 | Disconnect | yah. gonna get kiss.handhelds.org now, slap a closed page on it, update hidden pages .. sound good? |
| 02:11:01 | DragonEagle | works for me :) |
| 02:12:14 | Disconnect | ok who wants to take task-boot off my hands for a couple of revs? |
| 02:12:26 | Disconnect | isn't sure he's got time to give that all the attention it needs while getting kiss off the ground. |
| 02:13:04 | Disconnect | mostly basic stuff, just maint. got big plans for it in a little while, but for now I need someone to stir in some small changes and such. |
| 02:13:22 | Disconnect | grr brb |
| 02:24:01 | Disconnect | ok back |
| 02:25:43 | Disconnect | so.. |
| 02:27:08 | flypiper | Disconnect: I'd be lost ...but count me in on some web work |
| 02:27:15 | Disconnect | heh cool :) |
| 02:27:22 | Disconnect | flypiper: want to launch in a week, maybe 2. |
| 02:27:51 | flypiper | Disconnect: your the man...whatever you think...hey thinking: |
| 02:28:21 | Disconnect | flypiper: sienna wants to know what kind of plane you had your 'adventure' in.. |
| 02:28:38 | flypiper | our logo...what about putting a pic of the penguin up in front of our logo? |
| 02:29:25 | Disconnect | for logo I'm thinking of lipstick-mark kiss ;) .. here we go! |
| 02:29:35 | flypiper | tell sienna it was a C-177 Retract....about 160mph |
| 02:29:37 | Disconnect | hand in the "how!" palm-out fingers-open w/ lipstick on the palm. :) |
| 02:29:49 | flypiper | Your the man |
| 02:30:23 | flypiper | That plane is known as a cardinal RG |
| 02:31:07 | Disconnect | sienna is torn between the palm-open and the sock-puppet-lips (fingers curled as top lip/face, thumb as bottom lip) |
| 02:31:20 | DragonEagle | http://dragons.espssw.net/kiss-logo.png |
| 02:31:22 | Disconnect | she says she almost crashed in a beachcraft travelair |
| 02:31:54 | Disconnect | dragons.espssw.net does not exist, try again |
| 02:32:05 | DragonEagle | http://dragons.espsw.net/kiss-logo.png |
| 02:32:08 | DragonEagle | sorry |
| 02:32:09 | flypiper | I saw a tavelair make a hard landing...and burn...3 guys got out and one had his leg on fire..scarry |
| 02:32:39 | Disconnect | ucky. remind me not to fly travelair ;) |
| 02:32:44 | Disconnect | she just got an emergency landing at BWI |
| 02:32:58 | Disconnect | DragonEagle: cute :) |
| 02:33:33 | DragonEagle | hehe and it only took 30 seconds :) |
| 02:33:39 | flypiper | tell her: Im not having any more night emergency landings...I decided to spend the night..That opens your eyes!! |
| 02:34:09 | jacques_ | is sienna your daughter? |
| 02:34:17 | Disconnect | jacques: heh no. fiance |
| 02:34:29 | jacques_ | ah |
| 02:34:58 | Disconnect | found the lips. crop them from http://www.student.virginia.edu/~wuva/public/images/kiss.gif |
| 02:35:21 | flypiper | DragonEagle: cute...what about 500 kisses on the white part??? |
| 02:35:42 | DragonEagle | flypiper: what aboug overlaying those lips over tux? |
| 02:35:50 | DragonEagle | and this time I'm serious |
| 02:36:15 | jacques_ | i see you guys are down to the really important decisions |
| 02:36:29 | Disconnect | heh |
| 02:36:42 | flypiper | jacques_: sorry got carried away |
| 02:36:47 | Disconnect | jacques_: If I can get flypiper a logo and layout, he can work too ;) |
| 02:36:51 | jacques_ | np - have a ball |
| 02:37:04 | Disconnect | jacques_: well.. think we're caught up otherwise. |
| 02:37:05 | jacques_ | i was just teasing |
| 02:37:44 | Disconnect | figured. |
| 02:37:54 | Disconnect | but if you think we missed something so far.. -please- speak up ;) |
| 02:39:48 | sgodsell | Real cute logo. I think he needs more lipstick ;) |
| 02:40:26 | jacques_ | Disconnect: where are you getting your base packages? |
| 02:40:35 | jacques_ | Disconnect: liek glibc |
| 02:40:55 | DragonEagle | http://dragons.espsw.net/kiss-logo2.png |
| 02:40:58 | Disconnect | jacques_: um. my familiar install, ripped into bits and pieces. (so yah, gotta provide a clean build at some point shortly after step 2) |
| 02:41:46 | Disconnect | maybe the kiss a bit smaller. and rotated slightly to the right. |
| 02:41:50 | Disconnect | (straightened out) |
| 02:42:03 | Disconnect | oh my bad, tilted MORE (left) |
| 02:42:09 | Disconnect | "jaunty" sienna says. |
| 02:42:19 | Disconnect | dunno diddly about putting kiss-marks on things, so I'll go w/ jaunty too ;) |
| 02:42:21 | flypiper | DragonEagle:lol....I like it!! |
| 02:42:37 | Disconnect | DragonEagle: looking good :) |
| 02:42:40 | jacques_ | Disconnect: I can do native builds of all the baseline packages |
| 02:42:46 | jacques_ | (already have) |
| 02:42:59 | DragonEagle | yeah, but I killed my intimate install in the process :( |
| 02:43:00 | Disconnect | jacques_: roxxor :) |
| 02:43:03 | jacques_ | I just need help debianizing them |
| 02:43:16 | jacques_ | that's why I'm going to checkout checkinstall |
| 02:43:17 | Disconnect | cool I can handle that end :) |
| 02:43:21 | jacques_ | :-D |
| 02:43:26 | Disconnect | heh |
| 02:43:36 | jacques_ | I also do my own xfree builds |
| 02:43:51 | jacques_ | but I guess that's not nearly as big a deal as it xcompiles well |
| 02:44:08 | Disconnect | jacques_: do I hear you volunteering for core-packages-maintainer? ;) |
| 02:44:43 | jacques_ | Disconnect: why not :-) sure. |
| 02:45:23 | Disconnect | yay. :) that leaves me with a reasonable workload (everything, followed by dist management) instead of just everything, followed by more everything ;) |
| 02:45:44 | jacques_ | heh, I build glibc on my ipaq fo fun |
| 02:46:31 | jacques_ | it takes > 3 hours but heh |
| 02:46:53 | Disconnect | thats just sick ;) |
| 02:47:29 | jacques_ | that's me |
| 02:47:50 | jacques_ | I've done the linuxfromscratch build on the ipaq more times than I can remember |
| 02:47:51 | Disconnect | DragonEagle: how's the logo doing? |
| 02:47:59 | Disconnect | linuxfromscratch? |
| 02:48:12 | DragonEagle | Disconnect: can't remember how to rotate by an arbitary angle in the gimp |
| 02:48:26 | Disconnect | um. I did that recently... transform, then grab it and pull |
| 02:48:42 | jacques_ | Disconnect: linuxfromscratch.org |
| 02:48:50 | Disconnect | gimme a sec DragonEagle, will poke at it |
| 02:48:58 | DragonEagle | Disconnect: got it |
| 02:49:04 | jacques_ | Disconnect: a way of bootstapping a dist entirely from source |
| 02:49:14 | Disconnect | ahh excellent :) |
| 02:49:20 | Disconnect | (to both) |
| 02:49:34 | Disconnect | jacques_: you think its worth "backing up" to do that here? |
| 02:50:40 | Disconnect | that would certainly solve the source-packages problem. but .. uck. ;) |
| 02:52:25 | DragonEagle | http://dragons.espsw.net/kiss-logo3.png |
| 02:53:09 | Disconnect | good angle.. maybe center it a bit more and its perfect :) |
| 02:53:32 | Disconnect | whees.. we've got a logo and a base image. :) |
| 02:53:45 | Disconnect | and (soon) a website. now all we need is .. um.. a dist. ;) |
| 02:54:34 | DragonEagle | Disconnect: I was trying not to make him look like a care bare |
| 02:54:37 | bipolar_ | wonders where DragonEagle got the lipstick for that pic from... |
| 02:54:59 | DragonEagle | bipolar_: my fiance's makup bag :) |
| 02:54:59 | Disconnect | good point. |
| 02:55:07 | bipolar_ | lol |
| 02:56:39 | Disconnect | http://www.student.virginia.edu/~wuva/public/images/kiss.gif I think |
| 02:57:22 | DragonEagle | Disconnect: yeah |
| 02:59:19 | DragonEagle | Disconnect: is that set? the minute I unplug my ipaq, my system is going to crash |
| 02:59:44 | Disconnect | looks good :) |
| 02:59:53 | Disconnect | you rule :) |
| 03:00:19 | DragonEagle | Ok, I'll be back in about 5-10 minutes (may as well grab a smoke while the system is rebooting :) ) |
| 03:00:24 | Disconnect | cool |
| 03:00:43 | jacques_ | cool logo |
| 03:01:21 | Disconnect | yah, works well. and it'll fit on a splash screen. :) |
| 03:07:18 | flypipercub | is away |
| 03:07:51 | flypiper | is away |
| 03:10:29 | Disconnect | has a splash screen. :) |
| 03:11:12 | DragonEagle | blah, that was interesting |
| 03:13:56 | Disconnect | intimate.handhelds.org/disconnect/kiss_splash.jpg (and the pnm is there for use w/ pnm2fb from the intimate splashscreen setup) |
| 03:14:39 | DragonEagle | sweet, we should work that in as the kernel fb image :) |
| 03:15:02 | bipolar_ | DragonEagle: it'd be to big. |
| 03:15:17 | bipolar_ | DragonEagle: no compression on that. :( |
| 03:15:22 | DragonEagle | bipolar_: I got it that far, how hard can it be to scale it down a nit |
| 03:15:31 | DragonEagle | s/nit/bit/ |
| 03:15:41 | bipolar_ | DragonEagle: oh, yeah. :) |
| 03:15:52 | bipolar_ | DragonEagle: I was thinking a full screen image. |
| 03:15:55 | Disconnect | DragonEagle: easier - just use the intimate stuff. gzips pretty well |
| 03:16:11 | DragonEagle | Disconnect: I'm still in the middle of an intimate install :) |
| 03:16:12 | Disconnect | first thing linuxrc does ;) |
| 03:16:21 | Disconnect | heh |
| 03:17:04 | DragonEagle | I'm installing it over nfs, then I'm gonna mkfs.jffs2 -d /mnt/nfs -o /dev/mtdblk/2 |
| 03:17:24 | Disconnect | DragonEagle: um. that seems like the hard way, since you can just grab the base image tgz ;) |
| 03:17:46 | DragonEagle | I tried to do an install, it didn't like going onto a jffs2 cf card |
| 03:18:24 | Disconnect | DragonEagle: no install, just untar it then conf /etc/fstab etc. |
| 03:18:43 | DragonEagle | Disconnect: oh hell, now you tell me, it's almost finished |
| 03:18:50 | Disconnect | flypiper: you grok cvs? |
| 03:19:10 | DragonEagle | Disconnect: define grok |
| 03:19:23 | Disconnect | DragonEagle: can handle check in check out |
| 03:19:35 | DragonEagle | oh, ok :) |
| 03:19:37 | flypiper | Disconnect:??? |
| 03:19:53 | Disconnect | flypiper: no biggie. |
| 03:20:58 | Disconnect | flypiper: web stuff. can use scp just as easily. |
| 03:21:53 | flypiper | Disconnect:Ok |
| 03:23:51 | DragonEagle | hehe this channel is getting quite the following :) |
| 03:24:04 | Disconnect | yah and we haven't even got a website ;) |
| 03:24:32 | sgodsell | Disconnect: you should change the topic and add where you can get the distro from |
| 03:24:33 | DragonEagle | hehe I guess we could just point to the logo ftm:) |
| 03:24:51 | gmkp | Where can I get more info about kiss? |
| 03:24:54 | Disconnect | sgodsell: step 3 |
| 03:25:02 | Disconnect | gmkp: nowhere, yet. its a new dist for linux on the ipaq. |
| 03:25:20 | Disconnect | info is here. there's a test image tho. |
| 03:25:27 | Disconnect | if you feel lucky ;) |
| 03:25:48 | gmkp | No, not at the moment. Any release plans? Who is in charge? |
| 03:26:16 | Disconnect | lots of plans, and I am ;) |
| 03:26:32 | sgodsell | intimate.handhelds.org/disconnect/task-boot-1.0 |
| 03:26:35 | Disconnect | hoping for 1.0 saturdayish |
| 03:26:44 | sgodsell | gmkp you can try that out |
| 03:26:53 | gmkp | Disconnect: Oh, thank god I held on to it: I was just going to ask if this is vaporware! |
| 03:27:02 | DragonEagle | lol |
| 03:27:26 | Disconnect | thats mostly just good for "how small can task-boot get and still install stuff" .. kiss-test is "how small can X, python, xstroke, rxvt-aa, fonts, etc get" ;) |
| 03:28:13 | Disconnect | saturday we should have task-boot that can install task-base, that can install anything from familiar or intimate. hopefully apt-get-style (so no manual downloads) |
| 03:28:39 | Disconnect | will bbiab - grabbing my ipaq, doing more work on breaking task-base into packages. |
| 03:29:05 | gmkp | Well, it seems very hot; not only it is just 2MB, but it is made only couple of days ago! |
| 03:29:47 | DragonEagle | /topic so you think size doesn't matter? well you can kiss my ipaq |
| 03:29:49 | DragonEagle | :) |
| 03:30:46 | DragonEagle | n |
| 03:30:56 | DragonEagle | doh! |
| 03:31:06 | Disconnect | hehe |
| 03:31:29 | DragonEagle | lol |
| 03:31:38 | sgodsell | Nice topic ;) |
| 03:32:17 | gmkp | Disconnect: Maybe the more notorious quote "Size Does Matter"? |
| 03:33:31 | Disconnect | Kiss: Your biggest little pocket pal? |
| 03:36:22 | sgodsell | Hey I think the two mono chrome guys that both use QPE or QTOPIA should try task-boot-1.0 |
| 03:36:46 | sgodsell | That means bipolar_ and gmkp ;) |
| 03:36:52 | DragonEagle | what's QTOPIA? |
| 03:36:55 | sgodsell | wait to get hit |
| 03:37:03 | sgodsell | waits |
| 03:37:04 | Disconnect | sounds good. |
| 03:37:23 | Disconnect | anyone got an easy way to take an install tree and turn it into a deb? |
| 03:37:25 | bipolar_ | DragonEagle: QPE's new name |
| 03:37:27 | sgodsell | The new QPE |
| 03:37:48 | DragonEagle | bipolar_: ah, a new name so ppl will be more interested in it |
| 03:38:06 | bipolar_ | DragonEagle: yeah. Catchy, aint it... |
| 03:38:07 | DragonEagle | QPE XP |
| 03:38:14 | sgodsell | lol |
| 03:38:34 | Disconnect | QXPE? |
| 03:38:38 | sgodsell | GatesIPAQ |
| 03:38:50 | DragonEagle | sgodsell: no, that's CE |
| 03:39:10 | sgodsell | Funny things is Microsoft gives iPAQs to all there Consultants now |
| 03:39:41 | DragonEagle | that's because the minute an ipaq is sold, they get money |
| 03:40:14 | DragonEagle | flypiper: wb |
| 03:40:26 | flypiper | tries to choke dial-up |
| 03:40:37 | sgodsell | Hello flypiper |
| 03:40:50 | flypiper | sgodsell: hi |
| 03:44:37 | DragonEagle | WINDOWS CONTAINSE AN ADICTIVE INGREADANT |
| 03:44:58 | BrianR___ | any more info on the kiss project available yet? |
| 03:45:29 | Disconnect | wonders why its so hard to find deb build info for packages w/o source. |
| 03:45:42 | DragonEagle | BrianR___: it has a logo |
| 03:45:49 | BrianR___ | DragonEagle: heh. A small penis? |
| 03:46:04 | DragonEagle | BrianR___: hey now, that hurts |
| 03:46:05 | BrianR___ | "It's not the size of your flashdisk, but how your use it..." |
| 03:46:20 | DragonEagle | http://intimate.handhelds.org/disconnect/kiss_splash.jpg |
| 03:47:13 | Disconnect | ...but part of kiss is to integrate flash, nfs, udrive... |
| 03:47:16 | gmkp | Disconnect: Hmm, nice title. |
| 03:47:18 | Disconnect | the size quote fits better ;) |
| 03:47:23 | BrianR___ | Disconnect: heh |
| 03:47:58 | BrianR___ | is there any goals / design docs yet? |
| 03:48:14 | Disconnect | BrianR___: yep, but they are still on my wall ;) |
| 03:48:20 | BrianR___ | or even just scanned in versions of notes scribbled on napkins.. :) |
| 03:48:34 | Disconnect | BrianR___: no napkins. contact paper on the wall, dry-erase on the contact paper == white board. |
| 03:48:45 | BrianR___ | heh. awesome. |
| 03:49:26 | Disconnect | BrianR___: same 5 steps as before. but we've fleshed it out a bit - with luck, 1.0 on saturday (busy week @ work, not sure if I'll make it for sat) using familiar packages |
| 03:50:48 | DragonEagle | Disconnect: I _will_ have the new python done by then |
| 03:50:56 | DragonEagle | one way or the other :) |
| 03:51:05 | Disconnect | cool |
| 03:51:09 | Disconnect | 1.1 gets the new python :) |
| 03:51:19 | DragonEagle | likes having his weekend in the middle of the week :) |
| 03:51:24 | Disconnect | 1.0 won't have any packages of its own, so we -have- to stay 100% fam compat |
| 03:56:51 | flypiper | has got to go....gonna fix some skinned knuckles.....see all you fine ppl later |
| 03:57:01 | Disconnect | cya :) |
| 04:12:23 | bipolar_ | I sure hope we get a properly working ipkg or apt-get soon. |
| 04:15:05 | Disconnect | yep |
| 04:15:28 | Disconnect | thats [jamey/bbrox] depending |
| 04:22:26 | DragonEagle | hey france |
| 04:22:53 | france | DragonEagle: greetings |
| 04:29:56 | Disconnect | woohoo, got a base-files deb that (close enough) passes lintian |
| 04:30:09 | DragonEagle | kewl |
| 04:30:37 | DragonEagle | hey Disconnect, can is there a dpkg option that acts like ipkg upgrade? |
| 04:30:50 | Disconnect | DragonEagle: apt-get upgrade |
| 04:30:54 | DragonEagle | thx |
| 04:30:56 | Disconnect | DragonEagle: thats why apt-get is so critical. |
| 04:31:04 | Disconnect | dpkg only handles local files. |
| 04:31:43 | DragonEagle | yeah, pls forgive my debian ignorance, I use slackware myself |
| 04:34:16 | Disconnect | no prob |
| 04:34:29 | Disconnect | ipkg is either a retarded apt-get or a hyper-intelligent dpkg ;) |
| 04:34:52 | DragonEagle | lol |
| 04:40:36 | Disconnect | whee. even got a little "script" to do it once I edit the control files. |
| 04:40:46 | Disconnect | PKG=ipaqtools ; dpkg-deb --build $PKG && mv -f ${PKG}.deb ${PKG}_1.0-1_arm.deb && lintian ${PKG}_1.0-1_arm.deb |
| 04:41:36 | DragonEagle | hehe |
| 04:42:22 | DragonEagle | nelson is right, there needs to be a better way to handel jffs2 filesystems, I just wouldn't know where to start |
| 04:43:18 | Disconnect | DragonEagle: how so? |
| 04:43:27 | DragonEagle | the slow mounting |
| 04:43:34 | DragonEagle | for blkmtd |
| 04:44:21 | Disconnect | ahh |
| 04:51:07 | Disconnect | ok its midnight, got half the packages made.. gonna crash. night all! |
| 04:51:45 | france | night |
| 04:52:45 | DragonEagle | night Disconnect |
| 04:53:26 | sgodsell | take care Disconnect |
| 05:30:45 | DragonEagle | is away: just away |
| 05:34:44 | sgodsell | is away: The bed looks wonderful in my dreams right now |
| 07:46:14 | DragonEagle | is away: good night |
| 11:30:57 | DragonEagle | is away: work |
| 15:33:26 | jg | Disconnect: Morning... |
| 15:42:24 | Disconnect | heya |
| 15:44:03 | flypiper | Disconnect: morning |
| 15:45:53 | Disconnect | heya flypiper |
| 15:46:12 | Disconnect | got a bunch of the task-base packages made last night. |
| 15:47:52 | flypiper | got a big govt order this morning..will be taking the afternoon off/can be available for testing |
| 15:48:27 | Disconnect | cool :) |
| 15:53:22 | Disconnect | ok btw. intimate.handhelds.org/disconnect/kiss/realindex.html .. until kiss.handhelds.org lights (should be soon) |
| 15:53:27 | Tangent | flypiper : Congrats.. .well done :) |
| 15:53:38 | Tangent | Morning everyone BTW |
| 15:53:52 | flypiper | Tangent:Morning..Thanks |
| 15:53:59 | Disconnect | heya Tangent |
| 15:54:04 | Disconnect | yah, congrats flypiper |
| 15:54:15 | Tangent | Disconnect : I read all of the the logs from last night :) |
| 15:54:30 | Tangent | Disconnect : Also, you may have noticed, I set up ibot to be on this channel too :) |
| 15:54:34 | Disconnect | yep thanks :) |
| 15:57:35 | Tangent | Disconnect : You busy or bored? |
| 15:58:46 | Tangent | Disconnect : i.e. you wanna have a look at this python stuff I've been writing |
| 16:00:11 | Disconnect | mostly busy |
| 16:00:29 | Tangent | shame :( |
| 16:06:00 | flypiper | is away |
| 16:24:04 | Disconnect | urgh. debian binary-only packages are a PITA. but i'm not up to doing a full source-build between now and saturday. |
| 16:42:25 | sgodsell | Hello everyone ;) |
| 16:55:17 | flypiper | is away, headed home, see ya'll soon! |
| 17:03:10 | Disconnect | well.. the debs are odd (at best) but at least they are built. think there are some orphans still tho. |
| 17:04:07 | prh | what package system is kiss going to use? |
| 17:11:13 | Disconnect | prh: deb |
| 17:11:22 | prh | real full .debs? |
| 17:11:41 | Disconnect | sorta. |
| 17:11:57 | prh | sorta? |
| 17:12:00 | Disconnect | 3 (4?) trees, in order of precedence (ie first is highest priority): |
| 17:12:06 | Disconnect | kiss-ified debs |
| 17:12:14 | Disconnect | familiar debs |
| 17:12:17 | Disconnect | intimate debs (maybe) |
| 17:12:19 | Disconnect | debian-arm |
| 17:12:28 | Disconnect | er, s/trees/feeds/ |
| 17:13:00 | prh | erm familiar ipkgs even? |
| 17:14:31 | Disconnect | nope. dragoneagle is making a converter. |
| 17:14:47 | prh | ooh |
| 17:14:51 | prh | not hard mind |
| 17:15:02 | Disconnect | and I've already got a script (aimed at intimate, but it'll work here too) that compares our version to upstream version (in this case, familiar instead of intimate) and "acts" (intimate ver mails maintainer. this ver will convert) |
| 17:15:33 | prh | sounds complicated |
| 17:15:38 | Disconnect | not really. |
| 17:15:48 | Disconnect | wc -l PackageChecker |
| 17:15:48 | Disconnect | 77 PackageChecker |
| 17:16:08 | prh | I mean the whole kiss structure |
| 17:17:58 | bipolar | 'lo |
| 17:18:12 | Disconnect | bipolar: still not that complex. apt-get rules for that sort of thing. |
| 17:18:27 | bipolar | Disconnect: huh? |
| 17:18:34 | Disconnect | er that was to prh sorry |
| 17:18:38 | Disconnect | btw hi bipolar ;) |
| 17:18:39 | bipolar | np |
| 17:18:42 | bipolar | :) |
| 17:42:33 | Disconnect | woohoo, only a couple more packages. :) |
| 17:58:54 | Disconnect | thinks its done :) just needs kernel |
| 18:02:13 | Disconnect | woohoo, done. about to do up a quick installer and test :) |
| 18:02:22 | Disconnect | (and I can make task-boot smaller by dropping python) |
| 18:02:41 | Disconnect | er.. task-base that is. |
| 18:02:46 | Disconnect | task-boot hasn't got python. or anything else. ;) |
| 18:16:54 | Disconnect | first task-bootstrap.jffs2 coming up shortly :) |
| 18:17:12 | Disconnect | ..as soon as I remember to type mkfs.jffs2 instead of mkfs (doh!) |
| 18:18:49 | Disconnect | whee 2.0M still. |
| 18:18:59 | Disconnect | anyone wanna try it? (requires net connection still) |
| 18:19:31 | Disconnect | its task-boot (so if task-boot worked, this should) with an installer script that may or may not work. |
| 18:20:52 | Disconnect | http://intimate.handhelds.org/disconnect/kiss/realindex.html grab task-bootstrap.jffs2 |
| 18:21:00 | Disconnect | task-bootstrap.jffs2 04-Dec-2001 10:21 2.0M |
| 18:31:04 | Disconnect | is trying it ;) |
| 18:32:18 | | bbrox was last seen on #handhelds.org 2 hours, 30 minutes and 20 seconds ago, saying: => meeting [Tue Dec 4 16:01:58 2001] |
| 18:32:18 | Disconnect | ibot: seen bbrox |
| 18:33:02 | | Disconnect: Houston, Hooks Memorial Airport, TX, United States; (KDWH) 30-04-03N 095-33-22W 46M; last updated: Dec 04, 2001 11:59 AM EST; Dew Point: 66 F (19 C); Pressure (altimeter): 30.16 in. Hg (1021 hPa); Relative Humidity: 83%; Sky conditions: overcast; Temperature: 71 F (22 C); Visibility: 10 mile(s); Wind: from the ESE (120 degrees) at 8 MPH (7 KT) |
| 18:33:02 | Disconnect | ibot: weather kdwh |
| 18:33:06 | Disconnect | doh |
| 18:33:19 | | Disconnect: Baltimore, Inner Harbor, MD, United States; (KDMH) 39-17N 076-37W; last updated: Dec 04, 2001 11:54 AM EST; Dew Point: 37.9 F (3.3 C); Pressure (altimeter): 30.34 in. Hg (1027 hPa); Relative Humidity: 45%; Sky conditions: overcast; Temperature: 59.0 F (15.0 C); Visibility: 10 mile(s); Wind: from the ESE (120 degrees) at 8 MPH (7 KT) |
| 18:33:19 | Disconnect | ibot: weather kdmh |
| 18:34:00 | Disconnect | doh. ibot needs a better weather source. no clouds at all. (well a bit of smog off to the eastish) |
| 18:54:37 | Disconnect | hrm. evidently hosing libc is Bad. who'da guessed? |
| 18:54:56 | Disconnect | (so for those reading scrollback or whatnot, don't install task-bootstrap yet -- it works, but the install-kiss is busted) |
| 19:29:05 | Disconnect | flypiper: am testing the installer now :) |
| 19:29:39 | flypiper | cool..is the kiss image new..ready for a run? |
| 19:32:35 | flypiper | Disconnect: or is kiss-test ready ?? |
| 19:34:23 | Disconnect | flypiper: getting there. |
| 19:34:47 | flypiper | OK im getting ready to test |
| 19:35:42 | Disconnect | flypiper: gimme a few |
| 19:36:21 | flypiper | Disconnect: no prob |
| 19:40:48 | bipolar | Disconnect: will the kiss image you are working on have packaging support? ipkg or apt-get? |
| 19:50:54 | Disconnect | bipolar: this one has deb and wget. once I reach bbrox I'll find out whats up with apt-get (and jamey has the ipkg installer) |
| 19:51:03 | Disconnect | is reflashing again. |
| 19:51:08 | Disconnect | fsckered it but good ;) |
| 19:51:50 | bipolar | Disconnect: where is everyone? :) |
| 19:52:00 | bipolar | we need code, man! :-D |
| 19:54:55 | bipolar | france: :-D |
| 19:55:04 | france | bipolar: Hello |
| 19:57:04 | | Disconnect was last seen on #kiss 5 minutes and 56 seconds ago, saying: fsckered it but good ;) [Tue Dec 4 19:51:08 2001] |
| 19:57:04 | france | ibot seen Disconnect |
| 19:59:14 | france | Disconnect: I will be back in an hour. |
| 19:59:25 | france | bye - meeting. |
| 19:59:57 | bipolar | france: l8tr |
| 20:02:02 | Disconnect | france: ok have fun |
| 20:13:35 | Disconnect | bipolar: about to upload task-bootstrap (including installer) .. again .. hoping this one works ;) |
| 20:15:10 | Disconnect | if anyone is suicidal^Wbored, you can try it. flashing mine now (so yes, its almost completely untested) |
| 20:19:11 | flypiper | Disconnect: Im crazy...is it kiss-test..@realindex.html? |
| 20:21:26 | Disconnect | task-bootstrap |
| 20:21:36 | flypiper | K |
| 20:24:42 | DragonEagle | is back (gone 08:53:44) |
| 20:24:48 | bipolar | DragonEagle: WB |
| 20:24:55 | DragonEagle | hey bp |
| 20:26:54 | Disconnect | um. ok. dumb question. how do you create an empty-but-working /var/lib/dpkg/status? |
| 20:27:02 | Disconnect | # dpkg -i xstroke_1.0-1_arm.deb |
| 20:27:02 | Disconnect | (Reading database ... xxxxx files and directories installed.) |
| 20:27:02 | Disconnect | Unpacking xstroke (from xstroke_1.0-1_arm.deb) ... |
| 20:27:02 | Disconnect | Memory fault |
| 20:29:26 | Disconnect | ok hrm. must be something else.. this blows. |
| 20:34:34 | Tangent | Disconnect : I think you may be running into a jffs2 problem |
| 20:34:48 | Tangent | Disconnect : jffs2 doesn't support shared_writeable mmap |
| 20:34:55 | Tangent | Disconnect : Which dpkg normally uses... |
| 20:35:03 | Tangent | Disconnect : Don't know about the busybox implementation tho |
| 20:51:00 | Disconnect | agggg |
| 20:52:13 | Tangent | do an strace on dpkg |
| 20:52:20 | Tangent | Should be pretty revealung |
| 20:55:57 | Disconnect | open("gtk-menu_1.0-1_arm.deb", O_RDONLY) = 4 |
| 20:55:57 | Disconnect | fstat64(4, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=5952, ...}) = 0 |
| 20:55:57 | Disconnect | old_mmap(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x40019000 ... so far ok.. |
| 20:56:07 | Disconnect | fstat64(5, {st_mode=S_IFIFO|0600, st_size=0, ...}) = 0 |
| 20:56:07 | Disconnect | old_mmap(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x4001a000 |
| 20:56:07 | Disconnect | _llseek(5, 0, 0xbffff9a0, SEEK_CUR) = -1 ESPIPE (Illegal seek) |
| 20:56:12 | Disconnect | _llseek(5, -3072, 0xbffff8b4, SEEK_CUR) = -1 ESPIPE (Illegal seek) |
| 20:56:12 | Disconnect | _llseek(5, -1224, 0xbffff8b4, SEEK_CUR) = -1 ESPIPE (Illegal seek) |
| 20:56:17 | Disconnect | so something ain't right. :( |
| 20:59:29 | Disconnect | segv when run on ext2 |
| 21:00:34 | Disconnect | er.. reiser. |
| 21:00:41 | Disconnect | this could be very very bad. :( |
| 21:02:54 | Disconnect | maybe found a patch tho. |
| 21:06:58 | | jamey was last seen on #handhelds.org 1 days, 6 hours, 7 minutes and 30 seconds ago, saying: CF and PCMCIA flash devices have a logical->physical block mapping -- successive writes to the same logical block go to different physical blocks [Mon Dec 3 14:59:28 2001] |
| 21:06:58 | Disconnect | ibot: seen jamey |
| 21:07:02 | Disconnect | damn |
| 21:22:44 | Disconnect | hrm. wonder if it requires a postinst. |
| 21:29:31 | Disconnect | is building a new busybox, think I know whats wrong |
| 21:34:52 | Tangent | Disconnect : What do you think is wrong? |
| 21:35:53 | Disconnect | Tangent: gimme 5 secs, I'll tell you if I was right |
| 21:36:14 | Tangent | Disconnect : If I wait, I won't be able to point and laugh if you're wrong |
| 21:36:25 | bipolar | Tangent: lol |
| 21:36:48 | Disconnect | was wrong. :( |
| 21:37:09 | Disconnect | well wait. maybe. |
| 21:37:10 | Tangent | Disconnect : Hahahahah ... You fool ;) |
| 21:37:13 | bipolar | HA HA |
| 21:37:30 | bipolar | points at Disconnect and Laughs... :) |
| 21:39:13 | Tangent | Disconnect : See what happens... you start your own distro, and get nothing but abuse from the users ;) |
| 21:39:37 | bipolar | :) |
| 21:40:13 | Disconnect | Tangent: you aren't even a user. you don't use your ipaq these days you said. ;) (although with that in mind, you should slap it into a usbnet cradle and nfs-run debian buildd on it ;) ..) |
| 21:42:00 | Tangent | Disconnect : If you've got a preconfigured buildd image for me to run, I'd be happy to... if not, then there's no way I'm tackling the install docs again |
| 21:42:08 | Tangent | Disconnect : I'm still recovering from last time |
| 21:42:18 | Disconnect | Tangent: heh |
| 21:44:14 | Disconnect | grr. so it forks, then mmaps /var/lib/dpkg/info/gtk-menu.list, then craters. |
| 21:46:48 | Disconnect | Tangent: ok so its nothing to do with memory allocation. something to do with this mmap. and seems to be unrelated to jffs2 as well. |
| 21:46:53 | Tangent | Disconnect : Can it be fixed to use tmpfs? |
| 21:46:56 | Disconnect | was thinking it was malloc related. |
| 21:47:08 | Disconnect | Tangent: the trick is.. here's where it does that mmap |
| 21:47:39 | Disconnect | old_mmap(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x4001a000 |
| 21:47:41 | Disconnect | succeeds |
| 21:47:45 | Disconnect | old_mmap(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x4001b000 |
| 21:47:47 | Disconnect | then it dies. |
| 21:48:14 | Tangent | Disconnect : Nod... but couldn't we make the file it's mmaping be in /tmp |
| 21:48:29 | Disconnect | Tangent: sure. which file is it mmapping? |
| 21:48:47 | Disconnect | grep map dpkg.c |
| 21:48:47 | Disconnect | root@intimate:/opt/task-boot/V3/busybox-0.60.2# |
| 21:48:51 | Tangent | Disconnect : Well, you said it was /var/lob/dpkg/indo/gtk-menu.list |
| 21:49:33 | Tangent | Disconnect : Ah... when you put it like that, I see the problem :) |
| 21:49:46 | Disconnect | Tangent: thought it was, but as I look now I'm not even sure. |
| 21:50:35 | Disconnect | Tangent: ahh.. wait. its mmapping fd # -1 .. I'd bet thats probbaly not good. |
| 21:54:05 | bipolar | Hey! It's 5pm again! |
| 21:54:12 | Disconnect | heh so it is. whee!!! |
| 21:54:17 | Disconnect | so.. |
| 21:54:18 | bipolar | Time to go home and recompile Qtopia! :-P |
| 21:54:22 | Disconnect | who wants to argue with busybox-dpkg? |
| 21:54:38 | bipolar | Disconnect: I'd lose... |
| 21:54:49 | Disconnect | bipolar: heh. I think I just did as well. |
| 21:54:52 | bipolar | Disconnect: what version are you ising? |
| 21:55:02 | bipolar | ising = using |
| 21:55:07 | Disconnect | 0.60.2 |
| 21:55:17 | bipolar | Disconnect: Try the CVS version. |
| 21:55:26 | bipolar | Disconnect: perhaps it's fixed there. |
| 21:55:42 | Disconnect | one can hope. |
| 21:55:45 | bipolar | :) |
| 21:55:57 | bipolar | l8ter all! |
| 22:10:48 | Disconnect | flypiper: still around? do me a fav - grab that image, try the install-familiar script.. |
| 22:10:58 | Disconnect | the install-kiss script is, well fsckered. |
| 22:11:47 | flypiper | Disconnect: you want me to install familiar (from task-bootstrap?) |
| 22:11:56 | Disconnect | flypiper: yep. |
| 22:13:33 | flypiper | Disconnect: /tmp: bad directory |
| 22:13:42 | Disconnect | um. hrm. odd. |
| 22:14:05 | Disconnect | flypiper: should have been created basically first thing. |
| 22:14:11 | Disconnect | flypiper: you got a splash screen, right? |
| 22:14:17 | flypiper | yep |
| 22:14:31 | Disconnect | hrm. |
| 22:14:31 | flypiper | but poking around ...can't ping by hostname.. |
| 22:14:39 | Disconnect | yah dns is still screwed. |
| 22:14:41 | flypiper | OK ..using IP |
| 22:15:03 | Disconnect | when did it say /tmp: bad directory..? |
| 22:15:23 | flypiper | first thing after install-familiar |
| 22:15:33 | Disconnect | how very not right. |
| 22:16:29 | Disconnect | ahh. grr. foundit. |
| 22:16:31 | flypiper | the /tmp dir-linked to /mnt/ramfs/tmp |
| 22:16:53 | Disconnect | no.. wait. that should be ok. its created pretty early. damn. hrm. |
| 22:17:44 | Disconnect | whats in /mnt/ramfs? |
| 22:17:51 | flypiper | if I try to cd to /tmp..//bad directory |
| 22:17:58 | Disconnect | ls /mnt/ramfs |
| 22:18:26 | Disconnect | flypiper: cuz when I booted it, I didn't have trouble with tmp. I had trouble with dpkg.. |
| 22:18:40 | flypiper | ls: /mnt/ramfs: no such file or directory |
| 22:18:48 | Disconnect | ahh. ls /mnt |
| 22:19:06 | flypiper | same: no such file..ect |
| 22:19:24 | Disconnect | for /mnt? |
| 22:19:32 | flypiper | yep |
| 22:19:44 | Disconnect | oh. hang on a sec.. mv /task-boot/mnt / |
| 22:19:49 | Disconnect | then ls /mnt ;) |
| 22:20:22 | flypiper | intimate ramfs |
| 22:20:47 | Disconnect | ok now try familiar-installer |
| 22:20:52 | Disconnect | er install-familiar |
| 22:21:21 | flypiper | wget: not found |
| 22:21:37 | flypiper | zcat: Invalid gzip magic |
| 22:22:04 | flypiper | rm: Cannot remove 'bin' No such file..ect |
| 22:22:10 | Disconnect | aggg. |
| 22:22:19 | Disconnect | ok. hang on, I'll post a new image real quick. (when did you grab that one?) |
| 22:22:58 | flypiper | looks like posted at 10:21 |
| 22:23:24 | flypiper | been about 2:30 or so my time |
| 22:24:00 | Disconnect | flypiper: md5sum 70cac8f6c341010b1d7630604d8908f4 ? |
| 22:24:52 | flypiper | yep |
| 22:26:03 | Disconnect | hmm. odd. |
| 22:26:20 | Disconnect | gonna head home, will reflash that one on mine when I get there and see what I can see.. |
| 22:26:56 | flypiper | be careful..I'll be here |
| 22:51:48 | bipolar_ | re .. |
| 23:25:17 | sgodsell | is away: bbl |
| 23:32:59 | DragonEagle | is away: bbiab |
| 23:33:12 | DragonEagle | Tangent: so we need a jffs2 capable version of apt-get |
| 23:59:31 | DragonEagle | is back (gone 00:26:32) |
