| 00:01.51 | decimad | oh, there's a third option |
| 00:01.56 | decimad | save to a temp-file |
| 00:02.34 | decimad | that would get rid of the whole message box |
| 00:06.23 | cyborg_ar | that could actually work better |
| 00:06.31 | cyborg_ar | just dump the board to a temp file |
| 00:06.33 | cirilo | temp files in this case would cause even more problems, like WTF did *that* 3d model come from |
| 00:06.48 | cyborg_ar | you know where the original file lives |
| 00:06.52 | cyborg_ar | pass it to the tool |
| 00:08.55 | decimad | aren't there autosaves? |
| 00:09.03 | decimad | you could trigger on and use the autosave file |
| 00:09.06 | decimad | *one |
| 00:09.40 | decimad | because that will probably have logic *not* to reset the m_dirty flag |
| 00:19.59 | cirilo | I don't know if there's an autosave |
| 00:20.06 | cirilo | lemme grep |
| 00:21.16 | cirilo | ah oh - does have autosave |
| 00:22.09 | cirilo | ok - thanks for all the tips. I'll get working on that Export Item one day. :O |
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| 01:36.27 | tom_fig | Freecad can go to hell. What are your guy's preferences for CAD? |
| 01:36.46 | xzcvczx | autodesk fusion 360 |
| 01:36.56 | xzcvczx | but i would prefer to use opencad |
| 01:40.10 | tom_fig | By opencad, do you mean openscad? Or just open-source cad software? |
| 01:40.20 | xzcvczx | woops nah i meant freecad |
| 01:41.29 | tom_fig | I just can't stand the undo on there. There are other things, like crashes, but that one really irks me. |
| 01:42.00 | xzcvczx | tom_fig: what os? |
| 01:42.32 | tom_fig | Windows, although I'd run it on an Ubuntu VM if it were markedly better |
| 01:42.35 | xzcvczx | theres another one like openscad thats based on python script instead of some made up language |
| 01:42.49 | xzcvczx | tom_fig: autodesk fusion is free if you make < 100k/yr with it |
| 01:43.06 | tom_fig | Ah, nice to know |
| 01:44.03 | xzcvczx | or whatever the windows version is called.... it might be just autodesk 360 or something, i am not sure if fusion is osx related |
| 01:44.13 | xzcvczx | as vmware calls their osx version vmware fusion |
| 01:44.41 | xzcvczx | oh nvm it is called fusion 360 |
| 01:47.01 | tom_fig | I was hoping for a polished experience like KiCad |
| 01:47.32 | tom_fig | I know you guys are always badgering it, but it's pretty good compared to many, many other pieces of software |
| 01:48.36 | xzcvczx | two wrongs don't make a right :P |
| 01:49.16 | tom_fig | lol, oh come on |
| 01:49.56 | tom_fig | Have you ever tried to use gEDA? |
| 01:50.06 | xzcvczx | 7 lefts don't make a right either :) |
| 01:50.11 | c4757p | hah |
| 01:50.23 | tom_fig | Hahaha |
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| 01:58.26 | decimad | lol |
| 02:14.59 | xzcvczx | decimad: very nice |
| 02:15.48 | c4757p | ...seriously? |
| 02:16.01 | c4757p | of /course/ I ask if anybody wants the version numbers in the title bar and people say yes |
| 02:16.04 | c4757p | fuckin /users/ |
| 02:16.12 | xzcvczx | i didn't |
| 02:16.27 | c4757p | lol |
| 02:16.29 | c4757p | thank you :p |
| 02:16.52 | mroszko__ | verion in title bar? |
| 02:16.54 | mroszko__ | whyyyyyyyy |
| 02:17.01 | c4757p | because users |
| 02:17.23 | mroszko__ | are said users autists? |
| 02:17.33 | c4757p | no, just dumb |
| 02:17.46 | mroszko__ | . |
| 02:17.51 | mroszko__ | rule #2512515 |
| 02:17.55 | mroszko__ | never give users an option |
| 02:18.02 | xzcvczx | decimad: but yeah the new algorithm looks good |
| 02:18.15 | xzcvczx | mroszko__: i would consider that rule like #4 |
| 02:18.15 | c4757p | ooh, yes, I was going to try that out |
| 02:18.25 | c4757p | got the remote url on hand quickly? |
| 02:18.55 | mroszko__ | i started writing a gerber viewer in qt |
| 02:18.56 | mroszko__ | :3 |
| 02:19.47 | decimad | Another step taken on my way to xzcvczx's <3 ! |
| 02:20.02 | c4757p | xzcvczx <3s nobody |
| 02:20.44 | decimad | usually he's quicker in answering ;) |
| 02:20.45 | xzcvczx | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:20.46 | xzcvczx | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:20.46 | xzcvczx | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:21.02 | c4757p | thanks |
| 02:21.03 | xzcvczx | c4757p: lrn2 <3/ |
| 02:21.07 | xzcvczx | c4757p: lrn2 </3 |
| 02:21.08 | xzcvczx | rather |
| 02:21.17 | xzcvczx | wow that was a c4 level failure |
| 02:21.24 | c4757p | maybe you should lrn2 <3 |
| 02:21.36 | xzcvczx | but <3 is for weenies |
| 02:21.36 | decimad | Feel the <3! |
| 02:21.39 | xzcvczx | and icecream lovers |
| 02:21.58 | c4757p | but icecream is goo |
| 02:22.01 | c4757p | d |
| 02:22.37 | mroszko__ | qt5 docks are like anti-userfriendly |
| 02:22.38 | xzcvczx | c4757p: i was going to post the instructions you posted but my history isn't long enough in irc |
| 02:22.42 | mroszko__ | they hide deprecated classes |
| 02:22.55 | mroszko__ | and dont link obscure defines and enums |
| 02:22.57 | c4757p | I just asked for the url :p |
| 02:22.58 | mroszko__ | requiring more google searching |
| 02:22.59 | mroszko__ | :( |
| 02:23.02 | mroszko__ | docs* |
| 02:23.21 | xzcvczx | c4757p: well blame history | grep git |
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| 02:40.08 | c4757p | high-fives decimad |
| 02:40.24 | c4757p | I didn't even know the blurry text bothered me! :D |
| 02:40.26 | xzcvczx | that was a stupidly quick build |
| 02:40.31 | xzcvczx | incremental? |
| 02:40.34 | c4757p | always |
| 02:40.48 | c4757p | build finished like five minutes ago and I've been playing with it :P |
| 02:40.50 | xzcvczx | bzr always shafted incremental for me |
| 02:41.23 | c4757p | hm, I should probably remove his commits though, before I end up accidentally pushing them |
| 02:41.31 | c4757p | put them on master so as not to confuse his build script |
| 02:41.44 | xzcvczx | haha |
| 02:41.56 | xzcvczx | c4757p: lol by build script just builds whatevers in kicad/ |
| 02:42.05 | c4757p | (it automatically wipes the build dir if I switch branches, as that's been a problem point in the past with incrmentals) |
| 02:45.06 | c4757p | https://misc.c4757p.com/little-bit-close.png |
| 02:45.12 | c4757p | I wonder if pns should route around mask expansions |
| 02:45.22 | c4757p | I don't like that trace cutting under the mask opening like that |
| 02:45.58 | xzcvczx | it should but it doesn't |
| 02:46.21 | xzcvczx | c4757p: so does pcbway or whoever it is work over teh weekend? |
| 02:46.35 | c4757p | yup, it got mask and silk today |
| 02:46.38 | c4757p | :) |
| 02:46.48 | xzcvczx | nice |
| 02:52.21 | c4757p | yo decimad, not sure if this is part of the code you touched or not, but I just noticed it - https://misc.c4757p.com/overline.png |
| 02:52.28 | c4757p | probably overline should factor into the font height calculation? |
| 02:53.14 | decimad | Yo' c4757p ;) |
| 02:53.46 | c4757p | also maybe we should make these all face the same direction :p https://misc.c4757p.com/is-this-the-way-the-electrons-move.png |
| 02:53.52 | decimad | The current implementation of font rendering thinks the texelbox size of the character |
| 02:55.08 | decimad | Since I wrote the tool for the atlas and have all the true type font information, I can export way more information, including kerning pairs etc.. But I would prefer to negotiate with Orson on this |
| 02:55.38 | c4757p | nods |
| 02:56.35 | decimad | That's also why the character spacing is a bit larger and the chars a bit smaller currently |
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| 04:37.22 | xzcvczx | is surprised that noone has responded about getting rid of old bzr shit |
| 04:37.31 | xzcvczx | and we really need to scrap svn stuff as well |
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| 04:38.50 | c4757p | ...we still have svn stuff? |
| 04:40.29 | xzcvczx | CreateSVNVersionHeader.cmake |
| 04:40.41 | xzcvczx | i don't think its even referenced anywehre |
| 04:40.53 | xzcvczx | might even be a FindSVN.cmake as well |
| 04:41.39 | c4757p | I'll probably rip that shit out later then |
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| 07:08.55 | cyborg_ar | damn someone hit a dog with their car outside, now i'm wide awake |
| 07:08.59 | cyborg_ar | poor doggy |
| 07:13.21 | metacollin | :( |
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| 07:30.43 | GyrosGeier | hmmmmmmmm |
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| 07:31.29 | GyrosGeier | what if I add an AVR-ISP into my CPLD design? |
| 07:32.25 | GyrosGeier | upside: I don't need so many connectors |
| 07:32.42 | GyrosGeier | downside: I need to write VHDL for it |
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| 07:44.27 | cyborg_ar | or you could use an avr that supports jtag |
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| 07:47.35 | ziongate | hi all, just to be sure, there is no "curved track" option in kicad right ? |
| 07:48.10 | cyborg_ar | nope |
| 07:48.12 | ziongate | (i have seen some threads it is in a wish list) |
| 07:48.15 | ziongate | ok thanks |
| 07:48.18 | cyborg_ar | kicad can only do straight tracks |
| 07:48.49 | ziongate | yeah good for me. |
| 07:48.50 | cyborg_ar | what i do is i make a circle or arc in the comments layer, and then trace it by hand with the track tool |
| 07:49.25 | ziongate | ah ok. thanks. well don't have any need of curved tracks, was just wondering |
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| 09:07.28 | xzcvczx | cyborg_ar: the comments layer? |
| 09:09.24 | cyborg_ar | yes |
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| 09:09.33 | cyborg_ar | cmts.user |
| 09:09.36 | xzcvczx | ah |
| 09:09.47 | xzcvczx | thats user comments not designer comments :P |
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| 09:58.08 | thearduinoguy | Morning |
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| 10:30.36 | GyrosGeier | tries to find coffee |
| 10:32.10 | cyborg_ar | GyrosGeier, did you check the cabinets? |
| 10:32.56 | archivist | found it in the kitchen... and drinking it |
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| 10:47.59 | archivist | now where is some free space on shelves |
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| 10:58.02 | decimad | ahhh, coffeee |
| 10:58.08 | decimad | this warm feeling in the stomach |
| 10:58.10 | decimad | hmmmm |
| 10:59.43 | gordonjcp | I'm going to have more coffee |
| 11:04.19 | cyborg_ar | i just had some hazelnut roast |
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| 11:15.22 | GyrosGeier | cyborg_ar, I'm travelling today |
| 11:15.36 | GyrosGeier | as in, I have already dismantled the tent |
| 11:21.20 | leizhou | hello everyone |
| 11:24.03 | decimad | hello leizhou |
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| 11:26.26 | leizhou | Glad to be here |
| 11:26.35 | leizhou | Hoping to have friends here. |
| 11:28.43 | decimad | Especially xzcvczx is the one who's making friends here! |
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| 11:45.37 | Sujith | hello leizhou |
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| 11:50.13 | cyborg_ar | leizhou, we're very friendly here, even when it doesnt seem like it |
| 11:50.48 | cyborg_ar | decimad, hmm i wonder how complicated it would be to set up cmake for this thing |
| 11:51.01 | cyborg_ar | i can give it a small try for compiling on linux |
| 11:51.40 | gordonjcp | cyborg_ar: friendly? Wtf, how dare you say that, I ought to kick your backside for that |
| 11:51.44 | gordonjcp | cyborg_ar: friendly indeed |
| 11:51.50 | decimad | Probably not very complicated, but I don't know enough about CMake and my motivation to learn it thoroughly for setting up a single project before some other tool shows up is very low |
| 11:52.13 | gordonjcp | I should really learn cmake |
| 11:52.18 | gordonjcp | lots of stuff seems to use it |
| 11:52.20 | cyborg_ar | i'll give it a short try, gotta learn some cmake |
| 11:52.31 | cyborg_ar | if i suceed i'll send you a PR |
| 11:52.52 | decimad | the complication is adding freetype |
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| 12:02.34 | decimad | (the added complication being that cmake doesn't help at all with visual studio, it rather makes it harder to work with) |
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| 12:03.31 | cyborg_ar | hmmm |
| 12:03.48 | cyborg_ar | the original makefile is sillty |
| 12:03.56 | cyborg_ar | seems to only compile the commandline tool |
| 12:04.04 | cyborg_ar | what files go for the library? |
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| 12:10.25 | decimad | cyborg_ar: hrm? |
| 12:10.56 | cyborg_ar | nevermind |
| 12:10.59 | decimad | everything in the libmsdf directory goes to libmsdf.lib |
| 12:11.05 | cyborg_ar | i got libmsdf.a to compile |
| 12:11.29 | cyborg_ar | now to get your bit to compile |
| 12:11.56 | decimad | dependencies are boost and that lib |
| 12:12.11 | cyborg_ar | this is fun :) |
| 12:12.21 | cyborg_ar | i might get something that works on linux soon |
| 12:22.31 | cyborg_ar | ok everything compiles, nothing links |
| 12:22.32 | cyborg_ar | lol |
| 12:23.11 | xl0 | There is a feature request about procedural footprints somewhere, right? |
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| 12:24.54 | cyborg_ar | it is a sought after feature yes |
| 12:25.27 | decimad | the church over the street is currently indoctrinating helpless children again... |
| 12:25.51 | erichvk_ | Free windows PCs for the poor? |
| 12:29.25 | cyborg_ar | decimad, SUCCESS!! |
| 12:29.32 | cyborg_ar | got it to compile and link on linux |
| 12:30.02 | cyborg_ar | now gotta clean things up a little bit |
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| 12:36.39 | decimad | cyborg_ar: great! |
| 12:40.10 | cyborg_ar | hmm i get a black square as the output |
| 12:40.47 | decimad | :) What were the options? |
| 12:41.17 | cyborg_ar | ./msdf-atlasgen --font=../sampflefonts/UbuntuMono-R.ttf |
| 12:41.23 | cyborg_ar | using char height 0. |
| 12:42.25 | decimad | char height should default to 32? |
| 12:43.26 | decimad | oh, you found a bug ;) |
| 12:43.33 | decimad | I used auto-height lately |
| 12:43.42 | cyborg_ar | lol |
| 12:43.44 | cyborg_ar | yes |
| 12:43.48 | cyborg_ar | i just saw it |
| 12:43.51 | cyborg_ar | it does range.first |
| 12:43.55 | cyborg_ar | it should be the last |
| 12:46.05 | cyborg_ar | anyway i'm giving it a test forcing the value in the code |
| 12:47.51 | decimad | i updated the repo, did not test though ;) |
| 12:47.54 | cyborg_ar | looks like it's working like it should |
| 12:47.57 | cyborg_ar | oh ok |
| 12:48.23 | cyborg_ar | i'm almost done with the cmake thing |
| 12:49.25 | cyborg_ar | decimad, http://i.imgur.com/Lwyb7Sy.png does it look correct? |
| 12:49.43 | decimad | looks good to me! |
| 12:49.57 | cyborg_ar | good |
| 12:50.01 | cyborg_ar | we have it working on linux |
| 12:50.09 | decimad | Great, thank you! :) |
| 12:50.14 | cyborg_ar | it took 20 minutes lol |
| 12:50.27 | decimad | you knew what you were doing, at least approximately ;) |
| 12:50.38 | cyborg_ar | let me clean up the cmakelists a bit and commit things |
| 12:50.49 | cyborg_ar | nah, i just banged on the keyboard for a bit |
| 12:51.14 | cyborg_ar | also i noticed you put freetype binaries in there |
| 12:51.47 | decimad | It's simpler on windows this way |
| 12:51.58 | cyborg_ar | do you have msys2? |
| 12:52.01 | decimad | no |
| 12:52.06 | cyborg_ar | aw |
| 12:52.21 | cyborg_ar | it'd be nice to see if this simplistic cmakelists work well on windows/msys |
| 12:52.38 | cyborg_ar | that's the platform kicad officially supports anyway |
| 12:52.39 | decimad | You can leave out the binaries then, only used by the msvc project |
| 12:53.26 | cyborg_ar | could you move include/freetype to lib/freetype or lib/include/freetype |
| 12:53.40 | decimad | sure |
| 12:53.49 | decimad | gimme a sec |
| 12:54.03 | cyborg_ar | though lib does have some valid compilable things |
| 12:54.16 | cyborg_ar | i'd like to move it outside stuff that has real code |
| 12:54.40 | cyborg_ar | i guess you could just add a freetype folder |
| 12:54.47 | decimad | well that's all 3rd party stuff |
| 12:54.48 | cyborg_ar | and put the precompiled binaries and includes there |
| 12:55.05 | cyborg_ar | but the only precompiled one is freetype |
| 12:55.14 | cyborg_ar | the others we build ourselves so it's fine |
| 12:55.44 | cyborg_ar | there's also libmsdf.lib which it might be a mistake because you build that one |
| 12:56.02 | decimad | okay, I would recommend you put it where you want it and I'll update the project then ;) |
| 12:56.08 | cyborg_ar | okay |
| 12:56.31 | cyborg_ar | i'll pull in your changes, do what i need to do, and send you a PR |
| 12:56.37 | decimad | kk |
| 13:06.47 | nickoe | xzcvczx: fyi, i have been away for the weekend still trting to caych up |
| 13:23.20 | alphaferret | cyborg_ar, are you a real cyborg or is that just a nickname |
| 13:25.22 | cyborg_ar | haha |
| 13:25.28 | cyborg_ar | maybe |
| 13:25.33 | cyborg_ar | decimad, sent PR |
| 13:25.50 | cyborg_ar | i separated it into two commits |
| 13:26.02 | cyborg_ar | the first one implements cmake, the second one does all the file moving |
| 13:26.31 | cyborg_ar | you might want to fixup that commit with the changes you do to get it to compile again on mscs |
| 13:26.34 | cyborg_ar | msvs* |
| 13:27.48 | cyborg_ar | (ie you might not want to do the merging on github) |
| 13:27.54 | decimad | I will add them later, thank you, merged it |
| 13:28.12 | decimad | People will have to live with it, I'm currently onto something different ;) |
| 13:40.30 | cyborg_ar | ha |
| 13:40.47 | cyborg_ar | well the cmake thing should work fine on all platforms that have the libraries |
| 13:42.39 | c4757p | nickoe: woo, got vnc up |
| 13:44.41 | *** join/#kicad drod (~ldm@ip-95-221-235-169.bb.netbynet.ru) |
| 13:46.50 | c4757p | ooh, I feel clever |
| 13:47.34 | c4757p | instead of "ssh -L portforward host &; PID=$!; script...; kill $PID" or something similar, just do "(script) | ssh -L portforward host cat" |
| 13:47.36 | c4757p | ^-^ |
| 13:52.03 | cyborg_ar | :) |
| 13:52.05 | cyborg_ar | i did a cmake |
| 13:57.57 | c4757p | nickoe: okay, jre is installed |
| 13:58.04 | c4757p | nickoe: are you around now? |
| 13:58.41 | c4757p | nickoe: let me know when I can shut it down for about ten minutes, I'd like to clean up the cable clutter around where I set it up now that I've got proper remote access >_> |
| 14:07.20 | *** join/#kicad fellbuendel (~furry@unaffiliated/fellbuendel) |
| 14:16.18 | GyrosGeier | c4757p, I just leave the port forward open |
| 14:16.29 | GyrosGeier | with ssh -NL ... |
| 14:20.47 | *** join/#kicad LOMAS (~LOMAS@163.47.148.223) |
| 14:28.11 | c4757p | well, I hardly want to keep it open forever :p |
| 14:28.35 | *** join/#kicad LOMAS_ (~LOMAS@163.47.148.223) |
| 14:30.46 | *** join/#kicad CarlPoirier (~CarlPoiri@modemcable019.249-59-74.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 14:30.47 | GyrosGeier | well, it does have the advantage of allowing two parallel instances of the script to work |
| 14:30.56 | c4757p | fair |
| 14:31.14 | c4757p | to be clear, this script forwards vnc to the mac and launches a vnc client :p |
| 14:31.18 | c4757p | I wouldn't run two of them :P |
| 14:33.15 | *** join/#kicad Wetmelon (~wetmelon@host-73-169.ncasgro.asheville.nc.us.clients.pavlovmedia.com) |
| 14:43.40 | *** join/#kicad LOMAS__ (~LOMAS@163.47.148.223) |
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| 14:54.20 | *** join/#kicad ayjay_t (~ajp_@24-151-28-56.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) |
| 14:54.29 | *** join/#kicad mgottschlag (~quassel@reactos/tester/phoenix64) |
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| 15:02.04 | *** join/#kicad cyborg_ar (~cyborg_ar@c-98-215-226-11.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 15:03.05 | *** join/#kicad drod (~ldm@ip-95-221-235-169.bb.netbynet.ru) |
| 15:04.28 | *** join/#kicad aylons (~aylons@179.159.186.43) |
| 15:08.56 | Aylons_away | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:09.14 | archivist | someone needs a new password |
| 15:09.17 | Aylons_away | oh, god |
| 15:09.19 | Aylons_away | i do indeed |
| 15:09.22 | Aylons_away | silly me |
| 15:11.58 | Aylons_away | Well, not so bad actually. This was not my password, this was actually just the email verification. The password is still safe, but I changed it anyway. |
| 15:17.41 | *** join/#kicad eszett (~Eszett@dslb-084-059-074-203.084.059.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
| 15:18.32 | eszett | hi |
| 15:19.08 | *** join/#kicad berjan (~chatzilla@ip5455a1d7.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl) |
| 15:19.11 | Aylons | Hello |
| 15:19.55 | c4757p | heh, pro tip |
| 15:20.15 | c4757p | if you need to type something like that with a password, see if your IRC client has a dedicated window just for the IRC /server itself/, and type it /there/ |
| 15:20.25 | c4757p | if you mess up and accidentally "speak" it, it won't go anywhere :p |
| 15:23.24 | Aylons | I was doing it, got distracted by the verification mail and didn't realize this was the kicad channel |
| 15:24.43 | c4757p | lol, fair enough :) |
| 15:25.49 | *** join/#kicad scubasonar (~smuxi@c-24-5-230-176.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 15:29.25 | c4757p | ah, I installed the wrong thing. derp |
| 15:29.30 | c4757p | proper java incoming :p |
| 15:30.33 | c4757p | https://misc.c4757p.com/omgomgomg.png |
| 15:32.50 | c4757p | nickoe: okay, java'd |
| 15:33.51 | *** join/#kicad berjan_ (~chatzilla@ip5455a1d7.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl) |
| 15:34.48 | decimad | Gosh, I think there is no way I could calculate the du/dx in the vertex shader or even in the drawchar-routine, as I'd need the window dimensions for this. They can change but GAL records everything and recreates it only in change-events. So unless that happens I have no way to get to the current window dimensions :( |
| 15:35.39 | decimad | I wonder why there is no way to access the render target sizes in vertex/pixel shader |
| 15:39.02 | GyrosGeier | Aylons, protip: on most servers, you can also use /quote NickServ ... |
| 15:39.45 | GyrosGeier | but tab-completion is still a bitch, because /qu<tab> gives /quit, which posts the remainder of the line into all channels you're in |
| 15:39.52 | Aylons | I actually did a /query nickserv and has a dedicated windows for it on XChat. But copying and pasting from the mail was too enticing for me to resist :cP. |
| 15:40.36 | Laksen | c4757p, where are you getting it produced? |
| 15:41.06 | c4757p | pcbway |
| 15:41.38 | c4757p | nickoe: how frequently does jenkins retry? seems to still not be working |
| 15:41.56 | c4757p | I see nothing in the log |
| 15:43.00 | Aylons | I didn't like xchat much, actually. Later I'll look for another client, if anyone has any suggestions, I'm open. |
| 15:43.19 | c4757p | huh. xchat would definitely have been by first recommendation |
| 15:43.29 | c4757p | unfortunately my only other recommendation is a text-mode client :| |
| 15:51.21 | Aylons | I'm not unconfortable with text. I found the xChat GUI to be a bad one, and maybe a text-mode would be better. I'm a regular emacs user, maybe I'll look onto an emacs implementation. I'm sure there is more than one. |
| 15:51.45 | c4757p | there is :) |
| 15:53.19 | Aylons | But, for now, I'll do my first dive on the Kicad code. Any recommendations on that? I was thinking on patching any of these bugs: https://garoa.net.br/wiki/Grupo_de_Desenvolvimento_C%2B%2B_com_KiCAD#Starter_patches |
| 15:54.42 | decimad | cyborg_ar: okay, project files are updated, if you like you can announce unix support ;) |
| 16:01.07 | GyrosGeier | buys a few more reels of various hardware |
| 16:01.22 | cyborg_ar | decimad, sent to the list :) |
| 16:01.47 | c4757p | blinks at jenkins |
| 16:01.50 | c4757p | "Ping response time is too long or timed out. |
| 16:01.53 | c4757p | " |
| 16:02.01 | c4757p | well yes, you dumb shit, that's because my fucking router doesn't respond to ping |
| 16:02.05 | c4757p | just fucking ssh in, you pile of shite |
| 16:02.11 | c4757p | grumbles, pokes iptables |
| 16:02.21 | decimad | cyborg_ar: nice, thank you! |
| 16:03.41 | c4757p | oh no, it /does/ respond to ping, I had to enable that for something else |
| 16:03.45 | *** join/#kicad Eli2_ (~Eli2@pdpc/supporter/professional/eli2) |
| 16:03.47 | c4757p | and it's responding like 25ms |
| 16:03.48 | nickoe | c4757p: I think every ten minutes or so, but I am not sure it does that infinitely, but there is a button I can hist. |
| 16:03.50 | c4757p | wtf, jenkins |
| 16:03.52 | cyborg_ar | decimad, the magic of open source |
| 16:04.10 | c4757p | nickoe: it's saying "Ping response time is too long or timed out.", but I have no problem pinging the server |
| 16:04.17 | c4757p | nickoe: can you confirm what you have the host set to? |
| 16:04.26 | *** join/#kicad sandeepkr_ (~sandeepkr@111.235.65.5) |
| 16:08.43 | decimad | cyborg_ar: When there's not a sh*tload of platform specific fixes and hacks a cmake setup actually seems reasonably simple :D |
| 16:11.21 | decimad | Maybe Orson can find a way to supply the render target dimensions, otherwise I fear I cannot really accelerate it, c4 |
| 16:13.07 | decimad | Otherwise one could remove the edge filtering altogether. The edges would still be good, just the extra tad of AA-faking would be gone. |
| 16:19.31 | Yatekii | hey did anyone here doe anything wit audio and bluetooth/netwark already by coincindence? |
| 16:20.49 | nickoe | netwark? |
| 16:20.56 | Yatekii | *network ofc :P |
| 16:21.05 | nickoe | hey!! |
| 16:21.18 | Yatekii | I am sorry my brain just suks |
| 16:21.32 | nickoe | it could be some random new REST API for iiiinnnnneeeteeerneeets oooooffff THinGSS |
| 16:22.14 | cyborg_ar | decimad, there's performance issues? |
| 16:22.16 | nickoe | Yatekii: what do you mean with anything with bluetooth? |
| 16:22.53 | Yatekii | nickoe: yeah :D |
| 16:22.57 | decimad | cyborg_ar: Well, c4757p mentioned he felt zooming being a bit less responsive |
| 16:23.13 | c4757p | I tried to emphasize it was /slight/, and on a /huge/ board |
| 16:23.17 | c4757p | it doesn't matter :p |
| 16:23.18 | decimad | Nothing quantifyable though |
| 16:23.19 | Yatekii | nickoe: I want to build my own class D amp and if it's not toooo much trouble I would like to have Bluetooth and Network streaming |
| 16:23.41 | nickoe | I think that should be sort of easy with the proper bluetooth module. |
| 16:23.46 | decimad | And I am aware of a possible optimization, just that I don't know how to do it in Orson's framework |
| 16:23.56 | mgottschlag | Yatekii: http://i08fs1.atis-stud.uni-karlsruhe.de/~s_gottsc/IMG_20150930_112931666_HDR.jpg <- like that one? :D |
| 16:24.00 | cyborg_ar | i dont see how it would slow down zoom though |
| 16:24.03 | nickoe | Yatekii: I suspect you can get bluetooth modules where you can get PCM out of it directly |
| 16:24.16 | decimad | by rendering a little bit slower, I guess |
| 16:24.20 | cyborg_ar | if anything zooming in should reduce the amount of texels |
| 16:24.27 | Yatekii | nickoe: I guess for bt I can take an nrf52832 which just gets the data ove rthat stupid BLE profile and transforms it into I2S. |
| 16:24.36 | mgottschlag | (no bluetooth though, and I still didn't get enough time to work on the software... the hardware supports USB input and wifi) |
| 16:24.48 | cyborg_ar | it could be than the sharper visuals play with your perception of movement |
| 16:24.53 | Yatekii | nickoe: I was googling a bit and I felt like tehre is only some shady stuff I can't trust |
| 16:25.02 | Yatekii | microchip for example has the worst doku world imo |
| 16:25.15 | decimad | cyborg_ar: but it also increases the amount of blends, smoothsteps and sqrt's and differentiations |
| 16:25.43 | decimad | the sqrt's and diffs are really not needed at pixel level |
| 16:25.43 | Yatekii | ahh mgottschlag yep that's right :D but it has no network :P |
| 16:25.59 | Yatekii | does the pi have BT? |
| 16:26.18 | mgottschlag | yeah, I planned to use wifi and use OpenWRT + MPD or something like that |
| 16:26.28 | Yatekii | mgottschlag: oh it has wifi :) I want cable :) how do you do network streaeming? |
| 16:26.30 | mgottschlag | wired network is easier |
| 16:26.36 | Yatekii | is it? |
| 16:26.42 | mgottschlag | I don't yet, the software isn't done yet :) |
| 16:26.45 | Yatekii | I never did anything with PHY/MAC ICs :S |
| 16:26.52 | *** join/#kicad ayjay_t (~ajp_@24-151-28-56.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) |
| 16:27.00 | mgottschlag | well, if you use linux, then it's all the same |
| 16:27.17 | Yatekii | who in their right mind would not use unix :P ;) |
| 16:27.25 | mgottschlag | PCB layout-wise, wifi is easier if you use a prebuilt module (which I'd certainly would) |
| 16:27.44 | mgottschlag | I planned to use some realtime kernel, but that turned out to be too much work, so it's going to be linux :) |
| 16:28.10 | mgottschlag | my main problem is that the CPU does not have any FPU, so I'll have to rewrite some of the audio processing stuff |
| 16:28.18 | mgottschlag | e.g. resampling |
| 16:29.14 | mgottschlag | the pi would be much better, with an FPU and builtin bluetooth (on the pi 3), but then at least older pi's would not have both wifi and USB-input :) |
| 16:30.13 | decimad | if the values are within a fixed range, which they tend to be in such apps, it's not too bad with fixed point at least |
| 16:30.29 | mgottschlag | yeah, but most audio applications just use floating point |
| 16:30.43 | mgottschlag | Yatekii: whatever you do, just make sure that your CPU module provides a I2S MCLK :D |
| 16:31.01 | mgottschlag | (not all do, but most amps seem to expect a synchronized MCLK) |
| 16:32.50 | Yatekii | mgottschlag: well the nrf52832 supports all the possible I2S stuff I feel |
| 16:33.16 | Yatekii | well for wifi I would use a done module I guess, but for network I rather want it wired |
| 16:33.43 | Yatekii | how do you do USB sound? |
| 16:34.06 | mgottschlag | the CPU module provides USB OTG, and I use the linux gadget-audio driver |
| 16:34.09 | Yatekii | I would rathe rnot use sth like a pi but I feel like I need to :S |
| 16:34.13 | mgottschlag | doesn't work perfect either though |
| 16:34.28 | mgottschlag | Yatekii: is BLE the same as regular bluetooth 4.0, performance wise? |
| 16:34.45 | mgottschlag | apart from that, well, you can probably add 10MBit ethernet to that module, via SPI |
| 16:35.07 | mgottschlag | not much, but might be enough for 48kHz/24Bit |
| 16:35.27 | *** join/#kicad bgamari (~bgamari@2001:470:e438::1) |
| 16:36.02 | Yatekii | mgottschlag: that's the fact about BT that I didn't figure out yet. there is a BT profile for audio but some guy from nordic semi said that BLE is not fast enough for audio. so I ask myself how other devices do it then lol |
| 16:36.17 | mgottschlag | BLE probably is just a subset of BT 4.0 |
| 16:36.20 | *** join/#kicad ferdna (~ferdna@cpe-69-23-129-73.elp.res.rr.com) |
| 16:36.32 | nickoe | Yatekii: audio with BLE?? |
| 16:36.32 | Yatekii | yeah 10mbit should be enough, I just don't know what chips are nice and what ae not |
| 16:36.47 | nickoe | I mean for audio there are profiles like SPP, A2DP, AVRCP, GVADP a |
| 16:36.50 | Yatekii | nickoe: I aint got no clue man, why'd you ask me? :D |
| 16:36.51 | nickoe | but they are part of classic bluetooth |
| 16:36.57 | Yatekii | yeah A2DP I read about |
| 16:36.59 | Yatekii | ah ok |
| 16:37.15 | Yatekii | but I think nrf52832 should be capable of doing BT |
| 16:37.24 | mgottschlag | the docs explicitly say BLE |
| 16:37.35 | Yatekii | also I read that Android thinks it's cool and doesn't use A2DP, not sure tho |
| 16:37.47 | nickoe | Yatekii: if it can do A2DP I suspect it can also output audio directly |
| 16:38.27 | *** join/#kicad Novus (~Novus@2605:e000:628b:1400:e9da:147c:2a59:59bb) |
| 16:38.32 | Yatekii | yeah well seems to be BLE only |
| 16:38.45 | nickoe | mgottschlag: BLE is BLE. But if you have a bluetooth smart module it supports both. |
| 16:39.23 | nickoe | I am still a bit new to this bluetooth stuff |
| 16:39.32 | Yatekii | 1 Mbps, 2 Mbps supported data rates |
| 16:39.35 | Yatekii | hmm |
| 16:39.43 | Yatekii | well bluetooth is retarded beyond belief |
| 16:39.51 | c4757p | huh, I wonder what "response time" Jenkins measures |
| 16:39.53 | *** join/#kicad phinxy (~tehhhd@unaffiliated/phinxy) |
| 16:39.57 | c4757p | it claims 4.2 seconds to my mini |
| 16:40.02 | c4757p | I can ssh into it much faster :P |
| 16:40.11 | c4757p | (and that's from an external server, not on my local network >_> ) |
| 16:40.31 | nickoe | I ssh to it fine, but it seems a bit sluggish when entering chars |
| 16:40.38 | nickoe | but nothing too bad |
| 16:40.42 | nickoe | git a very tiny bit |
| 16:40.47 | Yatekii | mgottschlag: what made you choose the TI chip? and how satisfied are you with it's performance? |
| 16:40.50 | c4757p | huh, it's very responsive for me |
| 16:41.15 | mgottschlag | Yatekii: I think it's quite good, but I don't have anything to compare to |
| 16:41.28 | Yatekii | hmm ok |
| 16:41.42 | Yatekii | well because I would have gone with the MAC9709 now |
| 16:41.45 | Yatekii | *MAX |
| 16:41.50 | Yatekii | it's filterless |
| 16:41.51 | mgottschlag | I chose based on price vs. noise/harmonic distortion based on the datasheet |
| 16:42.15 | Yatekii | but it has no I2S, I need a separate codec for that |
| 16:42.57 | Yatekii | well, well THD+N is very deceptive. paying attention to the power level on which it was measured is key I feel |
| 16:43.39 | Yatekii | what are you going to do with that board and what do you need the pi zero for? :) |
| 16:43.43 | mgottschlag | yeah, it's usually measured at 1W, and that's approximately what I used most often :) |
| 16:44.01 | mgottschlag | that's not a pi zero, that's a Atmel CPU board... a bit older than the pi :) |
| 16:44.08 | Yatekii | huh?! I have seen many graphics that have it measured at random values like 22W |
| 16:44.23 | Yatekii | oh, looked like a pi zero :D |
| 16:44.44 | mgottschlag | the CPU board is running a full linux and runs an MPD server for network audio, and connects the USB gadget driver with the codec, etc etc |
| 16:45.03 | mgottschlag | 400MHz ARMv5, no FPU, 256MB RAM :( |
| 16:45.13 | mgottschlag | but: much more USB compared to the pi |
| 16:45.14 | Yatekii | some mates said: "just use a Pi3 for all the BT/Network/Controlling stuff and just build the amp" |
| 16:45.26 | Yatekii | maybe that's the right approach, not sure |
| 16:45.39 | Yatekii | why do you need more usb? |
| 16:45.46 | mgottschlag | 2x host, 1x device, so USB input and USB wifi (or bluetooth?) is possible at the same time |
| 16:46.13 | Yatekii | ah kk |
| 16:46.14 | mgottschlag | it's basically supposed to be connected to a computer to act as a USB sound card |
| 16:46.26 | Yatekii | yeah I want to do that too |
| 16:46.35 | Yatekii | I just want USB/BT/Network/Analog |
| 16:46.38 | mgottschlag | but then, I just need to get the software finished so that it can actually be used :/ |
| 16:46.43 | Yatekii | yeah |
| 16:47.02 | decimad | don't you know, software is the easy part! |
| 16:47.16 | decimad | at least that's what people told me way too often |
| 16:47.22 | mgottschlag | maybe just wired network + BT works as well, and then some network sound system on top of that (Pulseaudio/Airplay via network) |
| 16:47.26 | mgottschlag | decimad: haha |
| 16:48.11 | Yatekii | decimad: it IS the easy part. if it is on a pc or a well documented chip. so pretty much every chip but the nrf52 |
| 16:48.42 | Yatekii | *so it is not the easy part on pretty much every chip but the nrf52 |
| 16:48.53 | decimad | I tended to have less hassle with the hardware than with the software, because everything is left for the software - because software is so easy to write! |
| 16:49.36 | mgottschlag | Yatekii: it's much more work than the hardware, most of the time :D |
| 16:49.38 | Yatekii | hard ware lis like: it doesn't work, well good luck finding the mistake. software is like: oh that value is wrong, well so the mistake must be in that addition, and done |
| 16:49.43 | mgottschlag | (I am a software engineer) |
| 16:49.45 | decimad | oh, can't you do that as well...? because it's software, it's easy? And maybe that? |
| 16:49.51 | gordonjcp | Yatekii: horseshit |
| 16:50.09 | gordonjcp | Yatekii: it's no harder to debug hardware than it is software |
| 16:50.14 | Yatekii | AHHAHAHAHAHAHA |
| 16:50.17 | Yatekii | yeah ofc |
| 16:50.27 | Yatekii | good luck finding that short |
| 16:51.09 | mgottschlag | I've made the experience that hardware debugging gets easier over time as you adapt proper procedures when assembling everything, just like with software and getting used to various types of debuggers :) |
| 16:51.40 | mgottschlag | (e.g., don't assemble all at once, start part by part and test as you go... and use a current limited power supply so that you notice before chips start to burn due to shorts) |
| 16:52.20 | Yatekii | well yeah ofc |
| 16:52.51 | Yatekii | but software is very verbose (at least if you make it that way and use proper tool (e.g. NO MICROSOFT)) whilst hardware is not |
| 16:52.57 | Yatekii | (e.g. short) |
| 16:54.39 | gordonjcp | Yatekii: so, what, do you think every electronics manufacturer has a huge pile of abandoned projects, because they couldn't get them to work somehow? |
| 16:54.40 | mgottschlag | true, but software usually also is a lot more complex :) |
| 16:54.56 | gordonjcp | Yatekii: it's actually easier to debug hardware than software |
| 16:55.08 | Yatekii | gordonjcp: who said that? so you implay that if sth is hard to do it wont get done? |
| 16:55.11 | gordonjcp | Yatekii: it's almost always incredibly obvious what's wrong with hardware |
| 16:55.22 | gordonjcp | Yatekii: it's impossible to work out what's wrong with software |
| 16:55.29 | Yatekii | ofc |
| 16:55.36 | Yatekii | I guess everyone will agree with that lol |
| 16:55.39 | gordonjcp | if it doesn't work, it doesn't work, good luck working out why your function falls over |
| 16:55.57 | gordonjcp | etc etc |
| 16:56.09 | gordonjcp | Yatekii: I have literally no idea why you'd think hardware would be any harder to debug |
| 16:56.26 | mgottschlag | I don't think it's possible to say that either is more difficult... it always depends on the complexity |
| 16:59.15 | decimad | I mean it on a level where chips are connected together with a few opamps and voltage dividers and some filtering. |
| 16:59.40 | decimad | Of course designing a chip is very difficult |
| 16:59.49 | nickoe | c4757p: or maybe it is just the OSX feel where it feels sluggish :P |
| 16:59.56 | Yatekii | designing a chip is easy again. it's very verbose. |
| 16:59.58 | decimad | But that's actually comparable to software |
| 16:59.58 | c4757p | lol |
| 17:00.15 | nickoe | c4757p: ping times about 140 ms for me |
| 17:00.27 | gordonjcp | decimad: designing a logic chip is |
| 17:00.36 | Yatekii | but when I have an XTAL that seems perfectly soldered but has a broken solderjoint and software runs fine 99.9% of the time and just sometimes gets stuck, who would uppose its that? |
| 17:00.37 | gordonjcp | decimad: designing an analogue chip isn't though :-) |
| 17:00.38 | c4757p | ping will be slightly faster than ssh, you're pinging the router but sshing through it |
| 17:00.41 | Yatekii | even after you soldered it a few times |
| 17:00.47 | decimad | gordonjcp: yeah, granted |
| 17:00.53 | decimad | but few people do such stuff |
| 17:00.58 | gordonjcp | Yatekii: well, it would be fairly obvious |
| 17:01.04 | Yatekii | yeah ofc |
| 17:01.05 | nickoe | c4757p: yeah, I know |
| 17:01.14 | nickoe | just to have some metric to compare with :) |
| 17:01.21 | gordonjcp | Yatekii: if you've got a shitty clock, you'd see it straight away |
| 17:01.29 | Yatekii | because it couldn't be AURT or I2C or SPI devices blocking the proper execution |
| 17:01.39 | gordonjcp | no |
| 17:01.44 | Yatekii | the clock was NOT shitty 99.9% of the cases |
| 17:01.45 | gordonjcp | because you'd see the clock wasn't there |
| 17:01.47 | Yatekii | I just told you |
| 17:01.49 | Yatekii | litterally |
| 17:01.54 | Yatekii | you don't even read |
| 17:01.57 | gordonjcp | the clock will be shitty 100% of the time |
| 17:02.09 | gordonjcp | 99% of the time it will be un-shitty enough for the chip to work |
| 17:02.12 | gordonjcp | christ |
| 17:02.16 | gordonjcp | don't you even have an oscilloscope? |
| 17:02.23 | Yatekii | LOL |
| 17:02.41 | mgottschlag | gordonjcp: the average hobbyist does not have an oscilloscope |
| 17:02.44 | Yatekii | wont argue with you anymore., you are obv. the biggest pro on earth that can see even the tieniest clock-skew. |
| 17:02.45 | gordonjcp | mgottschlag: uhm |
| 17:02.53 | mgottschlag | I diidn't have one when I designed that audio board |
| 17:02.58 | Yatekii | and we have a fucking 8.5k agilent osc |
| 17:02.58 | gordonjcp | mgottschlag: why not? |
| 17:03.01 | gordonjcp | they're cheap |
| 17:03.04 | gordonjcp | Yatekii: yeah, me too |
| 17:03.08 | Yatekii | *tiniest |
| 17:03.13 | Yatekii | and I know how to use it |
| 17:03.18 | gordonjcp | Yatekii: I prefer using my 30-year-old analogue 'scope |
| 17:03.20 | Yatekii | and I can tell you when a clock is ok. |
| 17:03.28 | mgottschlag | gordonjcp: I have one now, but I just bought stuff when I really needed it, and I could build that board without one :) |
| 17:03.28 | Yatekii | nice for you |
| 17:03.32 | nickoe | mgottschlag: you are not a hobbyist if you don't have an oscilloscope! |
| 17:03.35 | gordonjcp | mgottschlag: fairy nerf |
| 17:03.53 | gordonjcp | Yatekii: the Agilent lives at work :-) |
| 17:04.38 | Yatekii | well we have one in our students lab. and I feel lucky to have one ... when I see the tectronics at my PhD mates lab ... ohm |
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| 17:05.08 | gordonjcp | Yatekii: tbh a 20MHz dual-trace analogue is the most useful thing you can have on the bench |
| 17:05.30 | gordonjcp | Yatekii: an expensive DSO is *great* when you need to exactly characterise something |
| 17:05.49 | nickoe | gordonjcp: most usefull? You mean, that you can use it for 99% percent of the debugging you need? |
| 17:05.50 | gordonjcp | a lot of the time, you just want to take a look and see if the signal *right there* is what you expect it to be |
| 17:05.56 | decimad | Chuck Norris could get it done with a Multimeter though |
| 17:06.11 | nickoe | decimad: but I like graphic stuff |
| 17:06.17 | nickoe | like oscopes |
| 17:06.22 | gordonjcp | nickoe: it's not so great if you're investigating complicated digital signals |
| 17:06.33 | Yatekii | gordonjcp: I lack the experience to be able to judge that I feel. I always just worked with agilent ones (appart from the crappy HP and Tectroix ones I saw in a few labs I visitted) and I feel they're great :) |
| 17:06.47 | gordonjcp | Yatekii: it comes with practice |
| 17:06.57 | gordonjcp | Yatekii: you'd spend a lot of time setting up a DSO |
| 17:06.59 | nickoe | gordonjcp: we all know that. But you just used the strange wording "most usefull thing you can have" |
| 17:07.16 | nickoe | anyway, just a side comment. |
| 17:07.20 | Yatekii | ya |
| 17:07.29 | gordonjcp | nickoe: okay, a really good cup of tea is the most useful thing to have on your bench |
| 17:07.37 | gordonjcp | Yatekii: sometimes you just want to take a quick look |
| 17:07.38 | nickoe | c4757p: so anything interesting happeing in here during the weekend I missed? |
| 17:07.50 | gordonjcp | you don't much care what the signal *is*, but you reckon it ought to be a train of pulses |
| 17:07.52 | nickoe | gordonjcp: ohh well... |
| 17:08.05 | gordonjcp | Yatekii: lo and behold, when you 'scope it, it's sitting stuck high |
| 17:08.22 | Yatekii | well I use the osc for pretty much every measurement ... I hardly use a multimeter ever. I have some mates that prefer the multimeter if it's possible. |
| 17:08.25 | gordonjcp | Yatekii: you don't need much accuracy to work out that this is Just Plain Wrong |
| 17:09.27 | Yatekii | well oftentimes it's obv. whats wrong. what I feel hard to find out is why. |
| 17:09.48 | decimad | Deep neural networks |
| 17:09.54 | Yatekii | damn and I still don't know how to do my audio :D need to google some more I guess |
| 17:09.56 | decimad | You never know why, but glad that |
| 17:09.59 | gordonjcp | Yatekii: just like software, there's a chain of events that leads up to it |
| 17:10.04 | gordonjcp | Yatekii: oh, what audio are you doing? |
| 17:10.45 | Yatekii | gordonjcp: and you have a stacktrace that tells you the steps and in ever ytsep you can at least doa print and print all the values. you can easily determine in what layer it's broken :) I don't feel the same for hw IMO |
| 17:11.01 | gordonjcp | Yatekii: practice... |
| 17:11.01 | Yatekii | but I do software for 15yrs now, HW is more like 5 |
| 17:11.29 | Yatekii | (if you don't count the cosmos building box at the age of 6 :D) |
| 17:12.08 | gordonjcp | I don't really need a fast 'scope because audio isn't very fast |
| 17:12.23 | gordonjcp | and if I'm measuring RF I don't really need to see the waveform's shape |
| 17:12.29 | gordonjcp | I just need to see the height of the trace |
| 17:12.48 | archivist | wonders why fault finding is usually missing from all the course |
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| 17:13.14 | gordonjcp | archivist: indeed |
| 17:13.15 | Yatekii | gordonjcp: I wanna do a Class D amp (done chip is ok for me) that can receive Bluetooth, Network and USB as well as analog audio sources. maybe I even could decide on the amp (after a few semester I can now make smthing out of those values) but I got no clue how hard network/bt/usb will be. on a PC it would be terribly easy for me. not with bare HW. I don't even knowif it could be trivially achieved ... |
| 17:13.53 | gordonjcp | well you do get chips for class D audio |
| 17:14.04 | gordonjcp | it's incredible how much power you can get out of them |
| 17:14.21 | gordonjcp | hundreds of watts out of a little module the size of a packet of noodles |
| 17:14.28 | gordonjcp | doesn't even get hot |
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| 17:15.49 | gordonjcp | Yatekii: essentially it sounds like you're building a network media player |
| 17:17.34 | archivist | a bunch of inputs, a switching device, a remote control interface(network or infra red), an output stage |
| 17:20.51 | decimad | nickoe: I like Osc's too ;) |
| 17:21.00 | gordonjcp | okay |
| 17:21.05 | gordonjcp | so you need an analogue 'scope |
| 17:21.20 | gordonjcp | what you also need is something to generate Lissajous figures on it, when you're not actually using it |
| 17:22.10 | archivist | not made a lissajous figure for a very long time :) |
| 17:23.30 | nickoe | xzcvczx: whats up? How to build on osx for a newbie :P |
| 17:24.02 | nickoe | xzcvczx: Can I just execute Adams scripts or do I need to brew stuff? (I have not reread the osx instructions yet) |
| 17:24.19 | GyrosGeier | Yatekii, BT: depends on what you want |
| 17:24.53 | GyrosGeier | there are readymade audio solutions, including the dual stack approach that allows you to connect a phone and a computer at the same time |
| 17:25.48 | GyrosGeier | if you want to really learn this stuff, get a simple radio chip, and write your own stack |
| 17:25.59 | GyrosGeier | if you want WiFi, get a dual WiFi/BT IC |
| 17:26.21 | GyrosGeier | separate ICs are difficult to use because they tend to overload each other |
| 17:26.30 | nickoe | GyrosGeier: ... back to the raytracing rendering issue. I mean what variables to inspect. I suspect it might have something to do with him makeing it render bins outside the atual window size and then it might sometimes not cound them all or something. |
| 17:26.50 | GyrosGeier | hmm |
| 17:26.53 | GyrosGeier | possible |
| 17:26.55 | nickoe | GyrosGeier: do you know why kicad was deleted for debian testing? |
| 17:27.00 | GyrosGeier | nope |
| 17:27.10 | nickoe | 2 secs |
| 17:27.28 | cyborg_ar | nickoe, looked at the bug tracker? |
| 17:27.44 | GyrosGeier | nickoe, https://packages.qa.debian.org/k/kicad.html points at https://bugs.debian.org/834246 |
| 17:27.48 | nickoe | kicad 4.0.2+dfsg1-4 is marked for autoremoval from testing on 2016-09-19 It is affected by these RC bugs: 834246: kicad: FTBFS in testing |
| 17:28.40 | nickoe | GyrosGeier: Does 4.0.4 build without that patch? |
| 17:28.52 | nickoe | on debian testing? |
| 17:29.09 | GyrosGeier | probably not |
| 17:29.27 | GyrosGeier | or is the boost patch in 4.0.4? |
| 17:29.40 | nickoe | yeah, that was the part I did not remember. decimad do you remember? |
| 17:29.46 | GyrosGeier | moves to the train |
| 17:29.51 | GyrosGeier | one hour until it leaves |
| 17:30.02 | nickoe | I might try to test it then |
| 17:30.06 | GyrosGeier | \o/ night trains |
| 17:30.14 | nickoe | GyrosGeier: where are you now? |
| 17:30.17 | nickoe | it is not night here! |
| 17:30.29 | GyrosGeier | Hamburg |
| 17:30.36 | nickoe | it is not night there either |
| 17:30.41 | decimad | The boost patch cannot be in 4.0.4 if that was not lifted to c++11 |
| 17:30.41 | GyrosGeier | there is no night train Berlin->Munich |
| 17:30.53 | GyrosGeier | so I went to Hamburg for the day |
| 17:30.55 | nickoe | decimad: ok |
| 17:31.07 | GyrosGeier | the train leaves at 20:26, and arrives at 7:30ish |
| 17:31.15 | nickoe | ahh, I see. |
| 17:31.24 | GyrosGeier | then quick shower in central station, and off to the customer |
| 17:31.45 | nickoe | GyrosGeier: gl |
| 17:32.09 | GyrosGeier | if you have a rail pass, a tent, a sleeping bag and a bike, being homeless isn't that bad in Europe |
| 17:32.33 | GyrosGeier | except it's going to get cold soon, I should possibly move towards Spain |
| 17:33.01 | alphaferret | ping c4757p |
| 17:33.32 | nickoe | alphaferret: he might have left his keyboard for some hours now |
| 17:33.34 | alphaferret | on your computer project, i assume you had a mobo, daughterboards, any grandaughter? |
| 17:33.59 | decimad | Is that some kind of experiment? |
| 17:34.11 | alphaferret | moi? no i have some questions |
| 17:34.22 | decimad | No I meant Gyros |
| 17:34.29 | alphaferret | carry on... |
| 17:35.32 | c4757p | no, no granddaughter :p |
| 17:35.50 | alphaferret | i'm curious how you would approach something modular like that |
| 17:35.51 | GyrosGeier | decimad, nah, just too many jobs in too different places |
| 17:35.58 | GyrosGeier | so there is no point in having a flat |
| 17:36.00 | c4757p | alphaferret: very carefully :p |
| 17:36.13 | alphaferret | organizing it in kicad |
| 17:36.55 | decimad | It seems to me you might be living in the danger of burning out! |
| 17:36.58 | alphaferret | let's says for example a modular nested board with 5 sub-boards |
| 17:37.26 | cyborg_ar | alphaferret, my gut feeling would be "NO." |
| 17:37.26 | nickoe | decimad: ? |
| 17:37.38 | decimad | But that is with my own abilities in mind, so subjective ;) |
| 17:37.38 | cyborg_ar | each connector you add is unreliability piling up |
| 17:37.43 | alphaferret | no as in don't do it in kicad? |
| 17:37.51 | nickoe | Something tells me alphaferret likes many PCB boards instead of one monolith |
| 17:38.02 | alphaferret | it's a hypothetical |
| 17:38.03 | cyborg_ar | also cost |
| 17:38.09 | *** join/#kicad drod (~ldm@ip-95-221-235-169.bb.netbynet.ru) |
| 17:38.09 | cyborg_ar | connectors are fucking expensive |
| 17:38.14 | alphaferret | pure kicad question, possibly my only one |
| 17:38.18 | c4757p | alphaferret: sub-boards are separate projects |
| 17:38.34 | alphaferret | ok that's how i did, was just curious |
| 17:38.37 | c4757p | completely discrete entities |
| 17:38.43 | c4757p | :) |
| 17:39.00 | alphaferret | and then would you link schematics in a main board for ease of navigation? |
| 17:39.25 | nickoe | c4757p: wee build complete on the osx box http://ci.kicad-pcb.org/job/osx-kicad-clang-head/2/console |
| 17:39.52 | cyborg_ar | GyrosGeier, i'm too sedentary to do that ha |
| 17:39.53 | c4757p | :o |
| 17:40.11 | c4757p | build of kicad entirely? I didn't think it had been long enough |
| 17:40.15 | nickoe | for those too lazy to click the link I was not really building anything... |
| 17:40.26 | nickoe | just ran sw_vers -productVersion |
| 17:40.27 | c4757p | oh. |
| 17:40.29 | c4757p | lol |
| 17:40.57 | c4757p | that's what it looked like, but I just figured the build might be silent if no errors :p |
| 17:41.15 | nickoe | hehe |
| 17:41.15 | c4757p | woo, still |
| 17:41.19 | nickoe | \o/ |
| 17:41.28 | c4757p | nice that it's working :) |
| 17:41.30 | cyborg_ar | i've been thinking on moving to the middle of nowhere where i can own a house for peanuts, as most of my work is through the internet/mail |
| 17:41.54 | decimad | that'd be so great |
| 17:42.03 | decimad | I hate all the freaking noise |
| 17:42.10 | cyborg_ar | i do not mind the noise |
| 17:42.15 | alphaferret | amen to that |
| 17:42.33 | cyborg_ar | and i quite enjoy that i have pretty much every single thing available at a short walk/bike/train ride away |
| 17:42.42 | cyborg_ar | i just dislike the cost |
| 17:42.52 | cyborg_ar | rent went up twice this year |
| 17:43.24 | c4757p | some noise is okay. some annoys me, but I hate not being near things, so it's worth it |
| 17:43.34 | Plugh | cyborg_ar: twice? :P |
| 17:43.40 | cyborg_ar | i've got a train going by every 3-15minutes |
| 17:43.46 | c4757p | I'd much rather be in a small city than the middle of nowhere. large cities can fuck off though |
| 17:44.02 | decimad | I was thinking maybe noise cancelling headphones/earphones might help me with the traffic sound at least |
| 17:44.11 | Plugh | cyborg_ar: If you don't mind me asking, what sort of work do you do that only requires the net/email? |
| 17:44.12 | cyborg_ar | well it was just a $200/mo increase in total, but it still hurt |
| 17:44.18 | decimad | "just" |
| 17:44.19 | c4757p | I'm in Utica NY now, that's perfect size :) |
| 17:44.29 | Plugh | decimad: Just what I was about to say |
| 17:44.48 | cyborg_ar | well the total rent is $1350 |
| 17:45.10 | cyborg_ar | for A 2.5 BED 2 BA we share with a friend |
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| 17:45.28 | alphaferret | city noise is cumulatively damaging to your soul. one day you're ok with it, next day you will sell your momma to get away |
| 17:45.36 | decimad | Was it actually an increase of 400$? |
| 17:45.44 | cyborg_ar | no, 200 |
| 17:45.59 | cyborg_ar | and i think there will be another before winter |
| 17:46.03 | decimad | :( |
| 17:46.08 | c4757p | alphaferret: I've had a bit of city noise most of my life :p |
| 17:46.11 | cyborg_ar | apartment next door is smaller and rented for $1700 |
| 17:46.17 | alphaferret | some people can handle it |
| 17:46.19 | Plugh | three increases in a year? That doesn't sound right. |
| 17:46.22 | cyborg_ar | it's easy as c4757p has no soul to damage |
| 17:46.36 | alphaferret | utica isn't beijing though |
| 17:46.49 | c4757p | cyborg_ar: haha |
| 17:47.00 | c4757p | alphaferret: yeah, like I said - small city okay |
| 17:47.04 | c4757p | large city bad |
| 17:47.06 | cyborg_ar | anyway, i've got a 90-100dB train going by every 3-15 minutes 24/7 |
| 17:47.07 | c4757p | :) |
| 17:47.16 | cyborg_ar | it is surprisingly easy to tune out |
| 17:47.35 | c4757p | ugh, trains |
| 17:47.40 | decimad | I find it actually quite antisocial that you can inherit a flat (as if space had an owner) and then rent it to people anyways ;) |
| 17:47.46 | alphaferret | worse than noise are.... hipsters |
| 17:47.47 | cyborg_ar | but it makes it hard to skype with clients |
| 17:48.00 | cyborg_ar | yeah that's the cause of the 3 rent increases |
| 17:48.07 | cyborg_ar | fucking hipsters |
| 17:48.28 | cyborg_ar | for some reason they are paying ungodly amounts of money to live in this latino neighborhood |
| 17:48.30 | alphaferret | it used to be called gentrification now it's hipsterfication |
| 17:48.35 | cyborg_ar | soon to be formerly latino |
| 17:49.53 | cyborg_ar | to be fair our landlord is a really nice guy, and that's why we keep staying |
| 17:50.07 | cyborg_ar | he only increased rent 20% |
| 17:50.09 | Plugh | cyborg_ar: I'm heading out for the afternoon. You can reply, or PM me, later once I've returned. |
| 17:50.17 | cyborg_ar | property taxes went up about that much |
| 17:50.34 | cyborg_ar | other landlords just doubled the price and evicted everyone |
| 17:50.46 | cyborg_ar | doubled the price in one go* |
| 17:52.09 | cyborg_ar | it makes no economic sense to keep poor people here if there are hipsters lining up to pay absolutely silly money to live here |
| 17:55.39 | cyborg_ar | anyway small city indeed sounds great, i've lived on a smallish city all my life. though i thought i wouldnt be able to adapt to this bigger one i got by fine |
| 17:56.12 | Yatekii | gordonjcp: exactly :) but the question is how I link them all :) and if I use a ready made board + amp or some different ics :) I didslike the board solution |
| 17:56.52 | Yatekii | GyrosGeier: well I was looking for some ready made ics but I was not able to judge if they are any good. and I don't want wifi :) I want cable network ;) |
| 17:57.01 | alphaferret | if you have the sensibility for a rural area, and you think you can make a go of it do it sooner than later |
| 17:57.08 | Yatekii | sorry was a way talkin with my dad ^^ |
| 17:57.20 | c4757p | eww, rural |
| 17:57.25 | cyborg_ar | eww |
| 17:57.38 | c4757p | I like there to be more people than cows around me |
| 17:58.10 | alphaferret | that's why i said 'if you have the sensibility for a rural area' |
| 17:59.10 | cyborg_ar | my requirements are: All utilities (including internet with at least a few megabits), grocery store, post office and hardware store at biking distance, preferably at least 2 or 3 different chains of groceries without having to go into the highway |
| 17:59.26 | cyborg_ar | that rules out most suburbs |
| 17:59.40 | cyborg_ar | oh also, i prefer if the houses are mostly different from one another |
| 18:00.20 | cyborg_ar | small (complete) towns and big cities are pretty much the only places i'd be comfortable in |
| 18:01.03 | Yatekii | GyrosGeier: http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/70005120A.pdf could be an option. not sure |
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| 18:18.48 | reportingsjr | hah |
| 18:19.17 | *** join/#kicad mozzarella (~sam@unaffiliated/sam113101) |
| 18:19.21 | reportingsjr | I live in the middle of a fairly large city and besides a /very/ faint whirring noise from cars way off in the distance all I hear is birds and crickets :P |
| 18:27.06 | cyborg_ar | actually the only noise that annoys me a bit is drunken people screaming from the bars around the corner |
| 18:27.18 | cyborg_ar | somehow i can tune out the train but not that |
| 18:27.53 | cyborg_ar | ooh i didn't know the fermilab was in the chicago suburbs |
| 18:28.01 | c4757p | the noise that annoys me is the loud motorcycles owned by the people at the pizza shop across the street |
| 18:28.13 | c4757p | I fantasize about pouring things in their gas tanks |
| 18:29.17 | cyborg_ar | lol |
| 18:29.45 | cyborg_ar | i assume what you want to pour in is not gas |
| 18:30.08 | c4757p | indeed |
| 18:30.22 | c4757p | usually it's pure essence of loathing |
| 18:30.36 | c4757p | sadly I haven't found that in liquid form |
| 18:31.53 | cyborg_ar | you could try screaming into one of these http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j10PyETcGWdaIkz/Customized-Quartz-Glass-Liebig.jpg |
| 18:33.42 | cyborg_ar | it will probably be almost pure water, but according to homeopaths it contains a memory of the essence of loathing, which should infuse it with hate properties |
| 18:33.57 | c4757p | lol |
| 18:44.51 | alphaferret | has not fired up the brand new wep 858d+ yet |
| 18:45.54 | alphaferret | only uses heteropathy |
| 18:46.33 | *** join/#kicad mgottschlag (~quassel@reactos/tester/phoenix64) |
| 18:55.34 | xzcvczx | nickoe: you need to brew shit |
| 18:55.39 | xzcvczx | nickoe: do you want my osx build script? |
| 18:55.46 | nickoe | xzcvczx: sure |
| 18:55.57 | nickoe | I have installed brew now |
| 18:56.06 | nickoe | that is essentially all I have done... |
| 18:56.10 | nickoe | and tmux of course |
| 18:56.24 | nickoe | nothing more |
| 18:56.33 | nickoe | or.. I did install some xcode stuff |
| 18:56.37 | nickoe | to get git |
| 18:56.44 | nickoe | I think it was called xcode command line tools |
| 18:56.50 | xzcvczx | ok |
| 18:57.00 | nickoe | I don't have a complier I think |
| 18:57.09 | xzcvczx | xcode command line tools == ompiler |
| 18:57.10 | xzcvczx | compiler |
| 18:57.25 | nickoe | ahh, great, clang is indeed available |
| 18:57.30 | nickoe | I just misread... |
| 18:57.34 | nickoe | the output |
| 18:57.55 | xzcvczx | check_wx should probably be run under screen/tmux the first time |
| 18:58.09 | xzcvczx | as i expect c4757p to be unreliable |
| 18:58.10 | *** join/#kicad jstein_ (~quassel@gentoo/developer/jstein) |
| 18:58.15 | xzcvczx | woops i mean c4757p's connection |
| 18:58.56 | *** join/#kicad bvernoux (~Ben@chl26-1-88-183-104-56.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:59.49 | nickoe | looks stable enough to me so far |
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| 19:01.57 | c4757p | my connection is pretty good, actually |
| 19:02.09 | c4757p | it's not fast, but it stays up reliably |
| 19:02.25 | nickoe | xzcvczx: is $HOME/.bashrc not used on osx? |
| 19:02.26 | c4757p | and I was even charitable and bought the hardware to give you a wired connection ;) |
| 19:02.34 | nickoe | \o/ |
| 19:02.53 | xzcvczx | c4757p: i just wanted the oppurtunity to call you unstable :) |
| 19:03.00 | xzcvczx | or unreliable |
| 19:03.07 | xzcvczx | nickoe: ummmm shrug |
| 19:03.14 | xzcvczx | i never really bother with .bashrc |
| 19:04.05 | c4757p | I haven't even put qos limits on you...yet >:) |
| 19:04.07 | c4757p | xzcvczx: haha |
| 19:04.09 | c4757p | I know :) |
| 19:04.51 | xzcvczx | sure ya did |
| 19:05.29 | nickoe | he is not even polish and nor is he on the right half plane |
| 19:05.30 | reportingsjr | I find it so bizarre how out of date arduino is on basically every package manager |
| 19:05.51 | nickoe | because arduino |
| 19:06.15 | c4757p | huh, Arch doesn't even /have/ Arduino in the mainrepos |
| 19:06.18 | c4757p | main repos |
| 19:06.20 | c4757p | just AUR |
| 19:06.39 | c4757p | looks like it's the latest version though |
| 19:09.20 | nickoe | xzcvczx: mm Checking Dependencies... Error: No such keg: /Users/kicad/homebrew/Cellar/gettext |
| 19:09.51 | nickoe | ohh, it has help text to resolve .. |
| 19:10.27 | xzcvczx | nickoe: if/when i eventually finish it off i will have it ask for permission to do it iteself |
| 19:10.35 | nickoe | Error: No available formula with the name "oce" looks like it is named homebrew/science/oce |
| 19:10.45 | xzcvczx | oh woops |
| 19:10.54 | xzcvczx | well when its poured it responds to just oce iirc |
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| 19:11.09 | nickoe | it does not as for anything |
| 19:11.58 | nickoe | *ask |
| 19:12.12 | nickoe | xzcvczx: What does pour mean in brew terminology? |
| 19:12.21 | nickoe | is that dependency resolution? |
| 19:12.41 | nickoe | btw, I am talking about the check_deps step |
| 19:12.44 | xzcvczx | meh installed |
| 19:12.47 | xzcvczx | == poured |
| 19:12.53 | reportingsjr | c4757p: fedora only has 1.6.4 which is a year and a few months old :( |
| 19:13.06 | c4757p | :( |
| 19:24.39 | alphaferret | changed ground symbol from agnd to gnd, cvpcb but the old net name still persists |
| 19:30.49 | *** join/#kicad rdmitry (~Dmitry@95-37-249-206.dynamic.mts-nn.ru) |
| 19:33.10 | xzcvczx | nickoe: so hows the progress? |
| 19:40.15 | nickoe | ==> ./configure --prefix=/Users/kicad/homebrew/Cellar/libngspice/26 --with-ngshared --enable-cider --enable-xspice |
| 19:40.41 | nickoe | alphaferret: did you regenerate the netlist? |
| 19:40.49 | alphaferret | yes like 50x |
| 19:40.53 | xzcvczx | nickoe: oh you don't need check_spice |
| 19:41.00 | xzcvczx | nickoe: spice is now a brew recipe |
| 19:41.05 | xzcvczx | did you not read the instructions :P |
| 19:41.31 | alphaferret | when i tried to refill ground zone it lists agnd as the only ground net |
| 19:41.33 | alphaferret | hmm |
| 19:41.46 | nickoe | xzcvczx: I ran ./kicad-app.sh check_deps and it gave me a line for deps to install, which I did. So I am pretty sure I followed all the instructions I got... |
| 19:41.52 | nickoe | maybe I should have ignored some of them :O |
| 19:42.08 | xzcvczx | nickoe: oh you are still at check_deps stage? |
| 19:42.17 | xzcvczx | haha i misread that |
| 19:42.28 | xzcvczx | i assumed you had run check_spice (don't bother running it though) |
| 19:42.31 | nickoe | yeah |
| 19:42.57 | nickoe | it is only a dual core box it seems |
| 19:45.59 | alphaferret | even deleted agnd symbol, the old net still persists |
| 19:51.59 | nickoe | maybe there is another |
| 19:52.15 | nickoe | alphaferret: also, what is your actual problem? |
| 19:52.33 | alphaferret | i think i found it, had invisible pin named to old name |
| 19:53.21 | nickoe | yeah, invisible pins are evil |
| 19:53.54 | nickoe | xzcvczx: are your scripts "related" to adams scipts? are you intending them to replace/update adams? |
| 19:53.56 | alphaferret | yes they are |
| 19:54.54 | xzcvczx | nickoe: i wrote mine because i wanted git and something "cleaner" than what he had |
| 19:55.01 | xzcvczx | he has like 10 scripts hwere a single one would work |
| 19:55.35 | nickoe | xzcvczx: .. well, that does not say much. I mean, his scripts could also be just one... |
| 19:55.36 | xzcvczx | nickoe: whats line 27 in the script you have? |
| 19:55.46 | xzcvczx | nickoe: they could, but they aren't |
| 19:56.11 | nickoe | CMAKE_SETTINGS=( |
| 19:56.15 | xzcvczx | ah cool |
| 19:56.23 | xzcvczx | wasn't sure if i had updated it since i made those changes |
| 19:56.34 | xzcvczx | i really have to finish it off and get it put in a git repo somewhere |
| 19:56.55 | nickoe | it is making oce now |
| 19:57.11 | nickoe | can'y you just make adam adopt it? |
| 19:57.11 | xzcvczx | it shouldn't need to make it |
| 19:57.15 | xzcvczx | it should be poured |
| 19:57.22 | nickoe | what do you mean? |
| 19:57.41 | xzcvczx | nickoe: its not quite so simple, as his stuff requires a fair bit of hacking so its usable on osx 10.9-10.10 |
| 19:57.59 | nickoe | can't you make yours compatible to that to? |
| 19:58.07 | nickoe | didn'y you talk about dropping 10.9? |
| 19:58.15 | xzcvczx | nah we dropped 7/8 |
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| 20:01.03 | nickoe | ok |
| 20:01.03 | nickoe | But what do you mean, that is should be poured? |
| 20:01.06 | nickoe | I have not installed oce before |
| 20:01.09 | nickoe | this is the first time |
| 20:01.11 | nickoe | with brew |
| 20:01.23 | xzcvczx | nickoe: well it shouldn't be building it |
| 20:01.33 | xzcvczx | it should just be using a pre-built package |
| 20:01.37 | nickoe | who is "it"? your script or brew? |
| 20:01.40 | xzcvczx | brew |
| 20:02.02 | nickoe | I choose ==> Installing homebrew/science/oce maybe that was wrong? |
| 20:02.24 | xzcvczx | nah that was right |
| 20:02.50 | xzcvczx | hmmm if you type "brew edit oce" does line 7 say "bottle"? |
| 20:02.50 | nickoe | xzcvczx: http://dpaste.com/1GQEXY7 |
| 20:03.11 | nickoe | bottle do |
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| 20:03.27 | xzcvczx | c4757p: oi what version of osx is that box running |
| 20:03.38 | nickoe | 10.11 |
| 20:04.01 | nickoe | or 10.11.6 to be a bit more precise |
| 20:05.11 | xzcvczx | hmmm thats defintely the right oce |
| 20:05.14 | xzcvczx | weird |
| 20:05.16 | xzcvczx | oh well |
| 20:05.53 | nickoe | xzcvczx: http://dpaste.com/3877CKT |
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| 20:11.24 | c4757p | yup, latest |
| 20:11.35 | c4757p | it's all up to date :p |
| 20:11.53 | xzcvczx | even the 0-day update? |
| 20:12.06 | c4757p | bah |
| 20:16.48 | nickoe | xzcvczx: so the building from source should be updated to mention 10.9 instead of 10.7? |
| 20:16.50 | nickoe | http://ci.kicad-pcb.org/job/kicad-doxygen/ws/Documentation/doxygen/html/md_Documentation_development_compiling.html#build_osx |
| 20:17.03 | nickoe | and also in the first paragraph on the page |
| 20:17.54 | nickoe | xzcvczx: c4757p and what about http://kicad-pcb.org/help/system-requirements/#_apple_mac_os_x ? |
| 20:18.43 | *** join/#kicad berjan (~chatzilla@ip5455a1d7.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl) |
| 20:18.46 | xzcvczx | well stable(4.0) is still 10.7 |
| 20:18.54 | xzcvczx | thats why kicad nightlies are currently broke |
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| 20:19.58 | nickoe | ok |
| 20:20.41 | nickoe | Because adam updated the machine? |
| 20:20.52 | nickoe | Is there any users using 10.7 or 10.8? |
| 20:21.30 | xzcvczx | nah adams machine runs 10.11 |
| 20:21.37 | xzcvczx | but the sdk versions differ |
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| 20:23.54 | nickoe | yeah, but I don't understand why it is suddenly broken. |
| 20:24.13 | nickoe | Could you elloborate a bit more on that? |
| 20:24.24 | nickoe | *elaborate |
| 20:25.05 | xzcvczx | well all the brew stuff was built with the 10.7 sdk, and then when kicad moved to c++11 (which 10.7 wasn't really compatible with) shit broke |
| 20:25.18 | xzcvczx | as you were mixing 10.9 built kicad with 10.7 deps |
| 20:25.47 | nickoe | hmm, ok, so it is the c++11 that is the "culprit" here? |
| 20:26.03 | nickoe | but why not just build nightlies for 10.9 as minver? |
| 20:26.40 | xzcvczx | thats the problem..... the brew deps are built with 10.7 as the minver |
| 20:26.43 | xzcvczx | and it doesn't like mixing |
| 20:26.44 | nickoe | I mean, as I see it you can have multiple homebrews to coexist, it is just a matter of selecting the correct one in the envirnment you are trying to build |
| 20:27.13 | xzcvczx | well you can only do that by default with different versions of homebrew packages |
| 20:27.27 | xzcvczx | brew doesn't really support 2 seperate installs of homebrew packages |
| 20:27.44 | nickoe | it seems so to me |
| 20:27.52 | nickoe | just don't install it on the root fs |
| 20:28.10 | c4757p | nickoe: it's basically a fresh system. I don't know how much of the requirements you need me to install and what can go in the user context |
| 20:28.28 | c4757p | you have admin now, so.. :p |
| 20:28.33 | nickoe | c4757p: I don't need you to install anything. |
| 20:28.38 | c4757p | okay :) |
| 20:28.52 | nickoe | I just installed brew in the kicad user home and I guess that is good (hopefully) |
| 20:28.58 | c4757p | woo |
| 20:29.12 | c4757p | I don't care if you install things system wide, that's fine too |
| 20:29.30 | c4757p | just don't break it ;) |
| 20:29.38 | xzcvczx | nickoe: oh, in which case you might have to hack the kicad-app.sh script a bit, as its designed for brew to be installed in the normal place |
| 20:29.58 | nickoe | xzcvczx: what dependencies in there expect that? |
| 20:30.21 | xzcvczx | line 37 |
| 20:30.39 | nickoe | ok |
| 20:30.51 | nickoe | they mention: "Multiple installations: Create a Homebrew installation wherever you extract the tarball. Whichever brew command is called is where the packages will be installed. You can use this as you see fit, e.g. a system set of libs in /usr/local and tweaked formulae for development in ~/homebrew." |
| 20:30.54 | nickoe | https://github.com/Homebrew/brew/blob/master/share/doc/homebrew/Installation.md |
| 20:32.29 | nickoe | xzcvczx: I guess a prefix variable for /usr/local is in order then :P |
| 20:33.20 | xzcvczx | if people are going to start using seperate brew installations i would prefer to see if there is a way to get brew to say where shits installed |
| 20:33.25 | xzcvczx | i will need to look into that |
| 20:33.33 | nickoe | like HOMEBREW_PREFIX |
| 20:33.36 | xzcvczx | then you just provide it with which brew |
| 20:35.31 | decimad | who's hosting that kicad.info btw? |
| 20:36.04 | reportingsjr | decimad: Chris Gammel |
| 20:36.53 | reportingsjr | s/Gammel/Gammell/ |
| 20:37.02 | nickoe | he looks like http://theengineeringcommons.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/contextualelectronics.jpg |
| 20:37.21 | nickoe | ohh, it is two l's, I always used one .. :P |
| 20:37.57 | thardin_ | baofeng in the background |
| 20:38.34 | nickoe | :) |
| 20:40.27 | decimad | I think I'm too old for the visual design. My eyes search any structure to follow, but there's only white |
| 20:40.54 | decimad | And the colourful logo with aggressive red tilted INFO |
| 20:45.29 | decimad | I need to go cry... soo old... :( |
| 20:50.51 | reportingsjr | imagines decimad saying this and being 28 years old |
| 20:50.54 | reportingsjr | :P |
| 20:59.32 | nickoe | decimad: are you talking about https://forum.kicad.info/uploads/default/10/67dd89d5a3f3aa46.png ? |
| 20:59.35 | nickoe | there is a shadow! |
| 20:59.50 | reportingsjr | nickoe: is the spice stuff available in the windows nightly yet? |
| 20:59.56 | nickoe | reportingsjr: no |
| 21:00.04 | xzcvczx | nickoe: so progress? |
| 21:00.05 | reportingsjr | Ok, are they going to be? |
| 21:00.16 | nickoe | I have not even tried to build ngspice on windows |
| 21:00.20 | reportingsjr | hah |
| 21:00.31 | nickoe | I have not even tried it on linux either |
| 21:00.59 | nickoe | xzcvczx: it took 90 minutes to do brew install boost gettext cmake glew cairo glm automake libtool libngspice homebrew/science/oce |
| 21:01.18 | xzcvczx | 87 of those minutes building oce most likely |
| 21:01.29 | xzcvczx | with another 2.5 building libngspice |
| 21:01.30 | xzcvczx | :P |
| 21:01.43 | nickoe | xzcvczx: check deps are good now, |
| 21:01.49 | nickoe | now building wx I think |
| 21:01.55 | xzcvczx | ok |
| 21:02.02 | xzcvczx | that will probably take ~40mins |
| 21:02.56 | nickoe | it errored |
| 21:03.12 | xzcvczx | oh what error? |
| 21:03.31 | nickoe | I think it was becasue I cancled it earlier during download |
| 21:03.41 | nickoe | I just removed the wx folder to retry, so wait a bit. |
| 21:03.48 | xzcvczx | ah yeah that would cause issues |
| 21:04.22 | nickoe | hmm, no still failing |
| 21:04.45 | nickoe | http://dpaste.com/22Q8MG1 |
| 21:04.56 | nickoe | I guess I need to have that script relative to the kicad source... |
| 21:05.16 | xzcvczx | the kicad-app.sh came with a folder called patches |
| 21:05.17 | xzcvczx | iirc |
| 21:06.16 | xzcvczx | ah lol you nuked the patches folder when you nuked the wx folder |
| 21:06.27 | xzcvczx | you should have just nuked the downloaded file |
| 21:06.36 | nickoe | ah, hehe |
| 21:06.48 | nickoe | that file structure was bad |
| 21:06.58 | nickoe | but are the patches the same as those from kicad? |
| 21:07.30 | xzcvczx | ummmm not sure |
| 21:07.40 | xzcvczx | but there is no guarantee the ones in the kicad tree will stay around |
| 21:12.04 | nickoe | anyway, it is building wx not with the original kicad-app patches. |
| 21:12.48 | nickoe | dunno how long that will take, any estimate xzcvczx? |
| 21:14.41 | xzcvczx | 30ish mins |
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| 21:38.38 | xzcvczx | damn microsoft isn't giving me the anniversary update |
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| 21:42.50 | decimad | xzcvczx feel your priviledge! |
| 21:42.52 | nickoe | xzcvczx: hmm, not done yet, but I am going to sleep now. |
| 21:43.40 | xzcvczx | decimad: is that a pun about the new ms browser? |
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| 21:55.29 | decimad | xzcvczx: is there a new browser? |
| 21:55.47 | xzcvczx | microsoft edge |
| 21:55.59 | decimad | I'll look that up |
| 21:56.45 | c4757p | I'm slightly disappointed, I won't be able to use "Internet Exploder" anymorwe |
| 21:56.52 | c4757p | -w |
| 21:56.57 | xzcvczx | c4757p: yeah you can, don't worry |
| 21:57.06 | xzcvczx | its still in the default win10 install |
| 21:59.13 | decimad | I wonder what they're trying to achieve |
| 21:59.36 | xzcvczx | get rid of the horrible reputation that IE had through 6-7 and part of 8? |
| 22:00.02 | decimad | Isn't it a bit late for that? |
| 22:00.55 | xzcvczx | still if you want to refer to shitty browsers standards wise these days you still spout ie typically without mentioning specific versions |
| 22:01.08 | xzcvczx | so its still a good way to get a clean slate amongst idiots |
| 22:01.14 | decimad | The try seems doomed... like any other tries of big companies that have a big product A and trying desperately to create B, C, D ... Z |
| 22:02.02 | xzcvczx | those who use windows don't typically have a high enough iq to associate them |
| 22:02.16 | decimad | Otoh a lot of engineers would be unemployed otherwise, so it probably serves a use |
| 22:03.01 | *** join/#kicad leizhou (5da8726d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.168.114.109) |
| 22:03.30 | decimad | and of course, a few good ideas can be copied into browsers that are actually used |
| 22:06.44 | mroszko__ | huh |
| 22:06.48 | mroszko__ | i cant get the grid to show in pcbnew |
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| 22:09.22 | xzcvczx | mroszko__: check layer widget->render |
| 22:09.29 | xzcvczx | make sure its a sensbile colour |
| 22:09.36 | mroszko__ | gah |
| 22:09.37 | xzcvczx | try switching to legacy and see if it appears |
| 22:09.39 | mroszko__ | why was it off by default |
| 22:09.39 | mroszko__ | wtf |
| 22:09.49 | xzcvczx | its not |
| 22:09.50 | mroszko__ | theres the disable grid button on the left |
| 22:09.53 | mroszko__ | and the fucking render grid |
| 22:09.58 | decimad | xzcvczx: don't take my current opinions too seriously though... I seem somewhat exhausted, in which case I tend to worship my pessimism ;) |
| 22:10.56 | mroszko__ | http://i.imgur.com/Zo27Gg2.png |
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| 22:11.03 | mroszko__ | http://i.imgur.com/FJkspec.png |
| 22:11.07 | mroszko__ | there shouldnt be too fucking options |
| 22:11.39 | xzcvczx | blame legacy |
| 22:12.19 | *** join/#kicad tom_fig (602556db@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.37.86.219) |
| 22:15.15 | decimad | btw, does anyone actually know when orson will show up again? |
| 22:15.49 | xzcvczx | probably in about 12ish hours/ |
| 22:15.50 | xzcvczx | ? |
| 22:16.08 | decimad | I wasn't too sure if he went on a business trip |
| 22:16.33 | xzcvczx | i am not sure how often/if he is ever sent on business trips |
| 22:17.30 | decimad | Well, he said there were busy times and that he'd be off on friday. |
| 22:17.52 | decimad | Or rather "from" friday? So I wondered if anybody knew |
| 22:18.07 | decimad | I will totally let me surprise ;) |
| 22:18.49 | mroszko__ | omfg |
| 22:18.59 | mroszko__ | i fucking hat eit when someone says, lets make Ctrl-Y into cut |
| 22:19.03 | mroszko__ | instead of redo |
| 22:19.16 | c4757p | ...how often do people say that? |
| 22:19.38 | c4757p | does /anything/ use ctrl-Y for cut? |
| 22:19.44 | c4757p | emacs uses it for paste... |
| 22:19.47 | mroszko__ | something definitely does |
| 22:19.54 | mroszko__ | i keep hitting it in stupid things |
| 22:19.56 | mroszko__ | like CLion |
| 22:19.58 | decimad | Wouldn't it make sense to have undo and redo be integral part of the keyboard layout? |
| 22:20.00 | xzcvczx | mroszko__: so you want redo to actually cut? thats just weird |
| 22:20.00 | mroszko__ | and i think eclipse does too |
| 22:20.05 | mroszko__ | no |
| 22:20.09 | mroszko__ | i want redo to redo what i just undid |
| 22:20.13 | mroszko__ | not remove the line |
| 22:20.21 | mroszko__ | and then ruin any attempt at actually doing a redo :( |
| 22:20.42 | decimad | Need to revert this branch and redo the other! |
| 22:21.36 | decimad | and then you could rebase the changes of a feature branch to your master |
| 22:21.45 | cyborg_ar | i keep hitting M-w and C-y into t things -_- |
| 22:22.29 | decimad | Wouldn't it actually be cool to not have the undo system be a simple stack, but a tree? |
| 22:22.38 | cyborg_ar | lol |
| 22:22.43 | c4757p | I'd like that very much |
| 22:22.43 | cyborg_ar | yeah just like emacs |
| 22:22.53 | cyborg_ar | instead of redoing you undo the undo |
| 22:23.09 | cyborg_ar | i got scarily used to that |
| 22:23.28 | cyborg_ar | i am too afraid to undo in kicad so i rarely do it |
| 22:23.33 | c4757p | lol |
| 22:23.38 | decimad | I mean, not really to use it all the time, but less data loss |
| 22:24.23 | cyborg_ar | something in the back of my head keeps screaming that the data structures are gonna get fucked up and crash |
| 22:24.23 | decimad | And then hop between the revisions to compare... Should actually not be hard to implement if the COMMIT system is there now |
| 22:24.54 | c4757p | I don't think I've ever had an undo crash |
| 22:24.57 | c4757p | which frankly is stunning |
| 22:25.07 | decimad | I only had it do the wrong thing, yeah |
| 22:25.14 | c4757p | the undo code is horrifying. |
| 22:25.30 | decimad | will soon be the past! |
| 22:25.56 | decimad | Then it's the straight forward thing with an object holding the diff and commit and revert methods |
| 22:29.26 | decimad | although Tom implied this would also be used for observing changes, where I would disagree that's a good choice |
| 22:31.00 | decimad | I'll try to catch some sleep to entertain you with my beloved humour again. |
| 22:59.35 | NoGodDamnIdea | hello guys |
| 23:00.08 | NoGodDamnIdea | i want to practice my pcb making skills ( more like learn ) so i want to do very simple ( but fun :D ) circuits |
| 23:00.19 | NoGodDamnIdea | did some amplifiers and a synth |
| 23:00.24 | NoGodDamnIdea | anyone have any other ideas? |
| 23:01.10 | cyborg_ar | have you done SMT or just through hole? |
| 23:05.15 | cyborg_ar | NoGodDamnIdea, ^ |
| 23:05.33 | NoGodDamnIdea | both smt and through hole |
| 23:05.47 | NoGodDamnIdea | but just a smt cap |
| 23:08.18 | NoGodDamnIdea | cyborg_ar ^ |
| 23:08.42 | cyborg_ar | try making a boart with all smt components :) |
| 23:08.47 | *** join/#kicad ferdna (~ferdna@cpe-69-23-129-73.elp.res.rr.com) |
| 23:11.35 | NoGodDamnIdea | oh but i dont want to practice my soldering skills , just the board making skills |
| 23:11.46 | NoGodDamnIdea | so im looking for simple stuff to make |
| 23:33.27 | *** join/#kicad scubasonar (~smuxi@c-24-5-230-176.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 23:36.30 | xzcvczx | if any fucking spacebar heaters respond to that email i am going to make you rue the day!!! |
| 23:41.01 | *** join/#kicad kow_ (~fffffff@CPE3085a93a4319-CM00fc8db094f0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 23:42.46 | xzcvczx | :P |
| 23:42.57 | decimad | Hrmmm, do you think too, that we should have version strings in the toolbar? I think I'll drop Wayne a Reply |
| 23:43.22 | c4757p | grah, I hate it when I upgrade and it breaks my kicad build |
| 23:43.24 | c4757p | decimad: the toolbar? |
| 23:43.31 | decimad | Titlebar, sorry! |
| 23:43.36 | xzcvczx | lol do that and i will revoke your ability to use a computer :P |
| 23:43.36 | c4757p | I'm replying with a proposed compromise too |
| 23:43.41 | c4757p | I want them gone |
| 23:43.55 | c4757p | but if people like them, there's a better option than just leaving them as it |
| 23:43.58 | c4757p | as is |
| 23:44.15 | xzcvczx | which is? |
| 23:44.18 | decimad | My cause should be clear by now c4 ;) |
| 23:44.37 | c4757p | 1) make them consistent - in all apps or none |
| 23:44.45 | c4757p | 2) simplify them, it should just be "4.0.5" etc |
| 23:44.51 | c4757p | no fucking /git hashes/ |
| 23:44.56 | c4757p | but versions are...okay, if not ideal |
| 23:45.06 | xzcvczx | how does that work on master? |
| 23:45.23 | c4757p | dunno, I'll have to think of a fallback when there's no build version string set |
| 23:45.35 | c4757p | that's an implementation detail though, I don't really care what happens on devel |
| 23:45.36 | xzcvczx | tbh that just sounds worse |
| 23:45.41 | c4757p | why? |
| 23:45.46 | xzcvczx | i prefer just a single place to look |
| 23:45.53 | decimad | No worry xzcvczx, I will personally volunteer to make nice version strings into the titlebar! |
| 23:45.57 | xzcvczx | aka, look in about |
| 23:46.00 | c4757p | well, yes |
| 23:46.07 | c4757p | I don't see how that's /worse/ than what we have now, though. |
| 23:46.19 | c4757p | I still want them gone, but I'd rather compromise than give in completely ;) |
| 23:46.25 | xzcvczx | c4757p: nah more trying to find a solution for master |
| 23:46.34 | c4757p | well, that's because master doesn't matter |
| 23:46.37 | xzcvczx | well wayne seems relatively happy removing it |
| 23:46.42 | c4757p | on devel builds, we do it the xz way and check the about box |
| 23:46.42 | xzcvczx | so quickly do it before anyone noticed |
| 23:46.45 | xzcvczx | notices |
| 23:46.54 | c4757p | it'll be in the title bar, but only because you need a fallback when there's no build verstring |
| 23:47.01 | c4757p | you don't even look at that :P |
| 23:47.13 | c4757p | users don't want to see the long-ass version info in the about box, though. |
| 23:47.17 | c4757p | they just want "this is kicad 4.0.5" |
| 23:47.18 | xzcvczx | c4757p: but then you get somebody making a bug.... "in stable i could see version in the titlebar now its not there, how do i get it back" |
| 23:47.23 | decimad | We could use latin numbers too, they look cool |
| 23:47.24 | c4757p | so? |
| 23:47.28 | c4757p | you get that either way |
| 23:47.33 | c4757p | you get that if you rip them out entirely too |
| 23:47.38 | c4757p | closed, notabug, wontfix |
| 23:48.05 | xzcvczx | c4757p: you will also get *shudder* js-reynauds repo doing weird shit seeing as he is convinved its 4.1 |
| 23:48.09 | decimad | isn't there a talk-to-the-hand? |
| 23:48.23 | c4757p | xzcvczx: we need to tell js-reynaud to stop fucking doing that |
| 23:48.28 | c4757p | in fact I mean to /either way/ |
| 23:48.30 | xzcvczx | +9999 |
| 23:48.31 | c4757p | it's /not/ 4.1 |
| 23:48.41 | c4757p | that's asinine |
| 23:49.08 | xzcvczx | the best one if it neeeds a version is 4.9 or 4.99 |
| 23:49.14 | xzcvczx | so people know its master for 5 |
| 23:49.23 | xzcvczx | but i don't like that when its not even rc'd anyways |
| 23:49.26 | c4757p | in any case, an arbitrary, biased selection of individuals is unanimous: https://twitter.com/c4757p/status/774797856934887424 |
| 23:49.28 | decimad | c4757p: xzcvczx said I was able to use a computer! |
| 23:50.04 | c4757p | lol |
| 23:50.40 | decimad | can't talk yourself out of that, dude! :D |
| 23:52.55 | c4757p | well, okay |
| 23:53.03 | c4757p | you raise a good point - wayne seems in favor of removing |
| 23:53.13 | c4757p | if I propose a compromise I'll probably tilt things in favor of keeping |
| 23:53.19 | c4757p | sits on it until people start to disagree |
| 23:54.54 | decimad | Maybe it would be better to place the name of the last committers there, linked with git blame |
| 23:55.09 | c4757p | lol |
| 23:55.13 | xzcvczx | i actually dislike it there as it encourages people to only give that version information not the copy-to-clipboard stuff |
| 23:55.19 | c4757p | ^^^ |
| 23:55.26 | xzcvczx | so many bug reports are like "Please copy version ifno" |
| 23:55.33 | c4757p | though a lot of people don't know about that |
| 23:55.45 | xzcvczx | they need to learn to read the documentation |
| 23:55.54 | c4757p | it'd be cool if we could have an in-app bug report mechanism that attached all the relevant info |
| 23:55.56 | xzcvczx | its a pity that launchpad doesn't allow for formatted bug reports |
| 23:56.00 | c4757p | it could even grab backtraces >_> |
| 23:56.32 | decimad | you open a can of security problems there... though it's cool if done well |
| 23:57.07 | cyborg_ar | xzcvczx, i use the spacebar in winter, you insensitive clod! |
| 23:57.19 | decimad | but seriously, i don't think there are enough devs to handle that storm of crash reports :D |
| 23:57.30 | c4757p | awards cyborg_ar points for "insensitive clod" |
| 23:57.43 | xzcvczx | cyborg_ar: i will cut off your arms and legs reducing how cold you get and stopping you from using the damn spacebar :P |
| 23:57.57 | c4757p | I worry about you sometimes |
| 23:57.58 | cyborg_ar | i can still use my nose |
| 23:58.09 | *** join/#kicad alphaferret (~user@54034F08.catv.pool.telekom.hu) |
| 23:58.40 | cyborg_ar | c4757p, i have been seeing that less and less in slashdot, the comments have gotten less funny lately |
| 23:58.57 | c4757p | slashdot's been pathetic for years now |
| 23:59.41 | c4757p | the comments are getting stupider too, hold your nose if you read anything hardware-related in particular |
