| 00:02.17 | SuperTaz | I just looked at the list...it seems it is explained |
| 00:02.29 | SuperTaz | at least sort of |
| 00:05.17 | *** join/#kicad riq_ (~riq_@c-24-6-115-254.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 00:05.19 | *** join/#kicad cirilo (~cirilo@CPE-120-144-53-157.lnse5.win.bigpond.net.au) |
| 00:15.57 | *** join/#kicad CarlPoirier (~CarlPoiri@modemcable019.249-59-74.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 00:27.21 | *** join/#kicad DL7AD (~sven@p4FD43A59.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 00:34.41 | *** join/#kicad bonzibuddy (~hamnstar@209.148.84.98) |
| 00:36.43 | *** join/#kicad k\o\w (~fffffff@CPE3085a93a4319-CM00fc8db094f0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 00:38.56 | *** join/#kicad drawkula (~username@p4FC11D8E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 00:43.24 | *** join/#kicad kuldeep (~kuldeep@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka) |
| 00:46.22 | *** join/#kicad ayjay (~ajp_@24-151-28-56.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) |
| 00:53.01 | *** join/#kicad Plugh (~kcozens@CPE68b6fc4e50b3-CM68b6fc4e50b0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 00:57.28 | *** join/#kicad ferdna (~ferdna@cpe-69-23-129-73.elp.res.rr.com) |
| 01:01.54 | mroszko | lol |
| 01:02.02 | mroszko | apparently digikey paid $5k for kicad.org |
| 01:03.29 | cirilo | wtf for? |
| 01:03.42 | mroszko | "because they had customers that got malware on |
| 01:03.42 | mroszko | their computers who typed kicad.org." |
| 01:04.27 | cirilo | so cyber squatting = $$$ |
| 01:07.37 | *** join/#kicad riq_ (~riq_@c-24-6-115-254.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 01:08.12 | *** join/#kicad CarlPoirier (~CarlPoiri@modemcable019.249-59-74.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 01:13.23 | mroszko | yea |
| 01:13.26 | mroszko | well to be fair |
| 01:13.28 | mroszko | it was pretty malcious |
| 01:13.32 | mroszko | it wasnt just squatting |
| 01:16.19 | mroszko | man |
| 01:16.27 | mroszko | it would be nice if we could simplify the downloads page for kicad |
| 01:16.35 | mroszko | but gah, every linux distro has its own package |
| 01:16.37 | c4757p | <cirilo> so cyber squatting = $$$ ---- unfortunately, yes |
| 01:16.40 | mroszko | usual way is just offer a .deb and .rpm |
| 01:16.46 | c4757p | sometimes throwing money at the problem is the easiest way to make it go away |
| 01:16.55 | c4757p | no matter how much you don't like the people you're throwing it at >_< |
| 01:16.57 | mroszko | still kinda weird reason |
| 01:17.06 | mroszko | since when does digikey do that for customers? |
| 01:17.10 | mroszko | they dont provide it services |
| 01:17.11 | mroszko | so |
| 01:17.48 | mroszko | hell, its only the last 2 years that digikey appears to have gotten an actual it guy |
| 01:23.17 | Plugh | mroszko: Make one package and use alien to generate the other packages as needed? :) |
| 01:29.03 | cirilo | well, I'd rather digikey be the new squatters than the previous lot |
| 01:30.27 | cirilo | though it's rather amusing that their "design tools" page doesn't ever mention kicad. :) http://www.digikey.com/en/resources/design-tools/design-tools |
| 01:34.45 | c4757p | suppose it would help to know what was said between them and their customer, though I don't think we ever will :) |
| 01:35.44 | mroszko | "I SEARCH FOR YOUR CAD TOOL AND GOT A VIRUS" |
| 01:35.48 | mroszko | "WHAT DID YOU SEARCH" |
| 01:35.50 | mroszko | "KICAD" |
| 01:35.53 | mroszko | "THATS NOT OUR TOOL" |
| 01:35.58 | mroszko | "YES IT IS, IT SAYS CAD IN THE NAME" |
| 01:36.02 | c4757p | hah |
| 01:36.03 | mroszko | "*facepalm*" |
| 01:36.12 | c4757p | giggles |
| 01:36.58 | *** join/#kicad nitrousnrg (~quassel@190-103-222-12.cepanet.com.ar) |
| 01:37.04 | *** join/#kicad nitrousnrg_ (~quassel@190-103-222-12.cepanet.com.ar) |
| 01:37.18 | mroszko | *IT EVEN SAYS IT HAS DIGIKEY LINKS* |
| 01:38.19 | blocky | yay build success |
| 01:39.57 | *** join/#kicad crazy_im1 (~mj@a89-182-169-105.net-htp.de) |
| 01:45.04 | blocky | hmm what do people edit c++ with on linux? eclipse? |
| 01:50.47 | *** join/#kicad Wetmelon (~wetmelon@host-73-169.ncasgro.asheville.nc.us.clients.pavlovmedia.com) |
| 02:03.45 | Strontium | blocky: I use geany |
| 02:03.57 | Strontium | for all my text editing/coding on linux |
| 02:04.36 | Strontium | as far as i am concerned, Eclipse is a frankenstien of horrific proportions. |
| 02:09.12 | blocky | yeah i'm being forced to use eclipse for work right now and i hate it |
| 02:09.25 | blocky | i am usually a vim/cscope/makefile person |
| 02:12.38 | blocky | but i don't know how to make that work with c++ |
| 02:12.49 | blocky | i can just use grep i guess |
| 02:14.23 | *** join/#kicad smoores (~smoores@c-67-188-210-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 02:16.01 | GyrosGeier | blocky, vim |
| 02:17.08 | GyrosGeier | the Kicad codebase is a bit annoying because the mapping from function name to file name is a bit wonky at times |
| 02:19.03 | *** join/#kicad Eli2| (~Eli2@pdpc/supporter/professional/eli2) |
| 02:20.40 | blocky | GyrosGeier: you use vim? |
| 02:26.40 | cirilo | blocky, for a long time I used 'kate' - others use emacs, these days I use "clion" (not free) |
| 02:27.04 | reportingsjr | clion was pretty decent for the small amount I tried it |
| 02:27.17 | reportingsjr | both times I've tried it other stuff comes up and I get distracted, haha |
| 02:27.52 | cirilo | but there's another free editor based on GTK which is becoming popular - though I haven't spent much time on it because I don't think it's as well organized as it should be |
| 02:28.28 | cirilo | blocky, ah, Strontium said it: geany |
| 02:29.44 | cirilo | most times I use clion as I used 'kate' anyway - only text editor. Once in a while it's nice to use the other tools it has like the refactor/rename tools |
| 02:29.54 | cirilo | much more convenient than grep/sed |
| 02:35.13 | blocky | i use sublime text a lot |
| 02:35.32 | blocky | i just don't have a good C++ alternative to cscope |
| 02:41.54 | cirilo | heh .. FreeCAD haz FEM for thermal transfer in development |
| 02:48.32 | mozmck | I use eclipse a bit and like it pretty well for c++ Once you learn to use it a bit it can make finding things in c++ very fast. |
| 02:48.59 | mozmck | codelite seems pretty decent the little I've used it as well. |
| 02:55.27 | reportingsjr | cirilo: really? that's cool |
| 02:56.40 | cirilo | reportingsjr, well it'll be great when it's at a usable stage. Saying "this cube is heating up a solid FR4 block" isn't terribly useful |
| 02:58.54 | cirilo | As far as Thermal FEM for PCBs goes, setting up a detailed STEP model in SALOME is a monstrous nuisance. Would be nice to export just the info needed for thermal analysis and perhaps even the control file .. but that would require oodles of time fiddling with the tools in Salome |
| 03:03.53 | *** join/#kicad smoores (~smoores@c-67-188-210-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 03:12.31 | *** join/#kicad trash80net (~trash79@162-200-156-77.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:15.20 | *** join/#kicad tannewt (~textual@c-71-231-55-126.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 03:18.10 | *** join/#kicad tom_fig (602556db@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.37.86.219) |
| 03:18.39 | GyrosGeier | hmm |
| 03:21.02 | GyrosGeier | I wonder if there are connectors that attach to pin headers, can be crimped with ribbon cable, and can be placed next to each other |
| 03:21.32 | GyrosGeier | i.e. I want a 2x16 connector that can be used as 4 2x4 connectors |
| 03:23.43 | GyrosGeier | so I can have a single connector with a ribbon cable that either goes to a driver board for four LEDs, splits up in four cables going to different boards, or connect individual cables |
| 03:28.01 | *** join/#kicad ferdna (~ferdna@cpe-69-23-129-73.elp.res.rr.com) |
| 03:28.04 | *** join/#kicad sandeepkr (~sandeepkr@182.75.187.110) |
| 03:29.34 | mozmck | GyrosGeier: not that I'm aware of - there is not much room between pins. |
| 03:32.29 | mozmck | Actually, you might could find some where you crimp sockets (is that what you call them?) on each wire and they shove into the header |
| 03:34.01 | GyrosGeier | hmm |
| 03:34.04 | GyrosGeier | that might work |
| 03:34.19 | mozmck | Lot more work than IDC :-) |
| 03:34.46 | GyrosGeier | yup |
| 03:35.11 | GyrosGeier | basically, I've built a PWM controller for 12 LEDs |
| 03:35.22 | GyrosGeier | and now I need to connect the LEDs |
| 03:36.44 | mozmck | yeah. Or if you have room, instead of a 2 x 16, just put 4 2x4s side-by-side |
| 03:37.04 | mozmck | So you can use IDC headers |
| 03:37.16 | GyrosGeier | and then use a 2x19 header? |
| 03:37.47 | GyrosGeier | the idea is to remain flexible |
| 03:37.56 | mozmck | I was just thinking 4 cables all the time |
| 03:39.04 | GyrosGeier | mmh |
| 03:39.44 | mozmck | I think you would have to skip more than one set of pins if you wanted them all on one header. The IDC clamp is what makes those headers wide. |
| 03:43.53 | GyrosGeier | hmm |
| 03:44.02 | GyrosGeier | ponders going rigid-flex |
| 03:44.24 | GyrosGeier | that is going to suck with Kicad |
| 03:45.34 | GyrosGeier | or I make a huge board |
| 03:45.44 | GyrosGeier | with a huge cutout in the middle |
| 03:47.07 | mozmck | what is rigid-flex? |
| 03:48.14 | GyrosGeier | parts of the PCB are flexible two-layer boards |
| 03:48.26 | GyrosGeier | or one layer |
| 03:48.38 | GyrosGeier | and parts are regular rigid 4 layer |
| 03:48.55 | mozmck | oh, interesting! |
| 03:49.29 | GyrosGeier | two mechanisms: preparing a flex-PCB and then gluing it to the rigid parts like normal multilayer |
| 03:50.04 | GyrosGeier | or milling the PCB down to a very thin layer that is flexible enough for mounting in a weird shape |
| 03:50.12 | GyrosGeier | the latter will break if bent again |
| 03:50.27 | GyrosGeier | the former is pretty robust, but expensive |
| 03:50.35 | mozmck | I bet |
| 03:50.41 | GyrosGeier | main problem is that Kicad doesn't handle either |
| 03:50.52 | GyrosGeier | because you need different Edge.Cuts for different layers |
| 03:51.07 | *** join/#kicad invultri_ (~leila@a82-95-232-65.adsl.xs4all.nl) |
| 03:53.17 | *** join/#kicad mroszko (~mroszko@ool-4350d3a1.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 03:54.43 | GyrosGeier | hmm |
| 03:55.12 | GyrosGeier | or I could use some of https://www.digikey.de/product-detail/en/molex-llc/0510210800/WM1726-ND/242848 instead of pin headers |
| 03:58.49 | *** join/#kicad C47 (~d3bug@189.242.9.218) |
| 04:01.46 | *** join/#kicad DocScrutinizer05 (~saturn@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 04:05.16 | *** join/#kicad daey_ (~Flutterba@unaffiliated/day) |
| 04:05.33 | cirilo | I've torn the ends of cables to allow room for IDC connectors - pretty typical |
| 04:06.02 | GyrosGeier | http://www.molex.com/molex/products/datasheet.jsp?part=active/0151340800_CABLE_ASSEMBLIES.xml |
| 04:06.27 | GyrosGeier | that sounds almost sensible |
| 04:06.44 | GyrosGeier | cut these in half for the actual LED connection |
| 04:06.50 | cirilo | GyrosGeier, for rigid-flex the things that *really* suck are (a) need a giant rectangle on Edge.Cuts - the actual rigid parts go on another layer and the flex parts go on yet another layer |
| 04:07.30 | GyrosGeier | and use assemblies with both connectors for distributing signal around |
| 04:07.36 | cirilo | and (b) all components are on the "Top Layer" - can't automatically tell which parts are for rigid and which parts are mounted to the flex |
| 04:08.40 | cirilo | picoblades are great if you can stick to using preassembled wires |
| 04:08.49 | GyrosGeier | yes |
| 04:08.57 | cirilo | retaining force is pretty good :) |
| 04:08.58 | GyrosGeier | I've hand-crimped two wires |
| 04:09.10 | GyrosGeier | lots of swearing |
| 04:09.15 | GyrosGeier | hm |
| 04:09.38 | GyrosGeier | these have 1A per pin |
| 04:10.08 | GyrosGeier | so I should use six power pins for my LEDs |
| 04:10.20 | GyrosGeier | if they have 4x0,75A |
| 04:10.25 | cirilo | I've used 1 connector from Hirose with smaller pitch/contact than PicoBlade - I drop the contact half the time while trying to load the manual crimp tool. :) |
| 04:53.41 | blocky | what do people use for FEM now? matlab? |
| 04:53.53 | blocky | i've heard of one called ansys |
| 05:07.24 | *** join/#kicad VA3VNA (~mayday_ja@67.70.9.37) |
| 05:07.49 | *** join/#kicad Plugh (~kcozens@CPE68b6fc4e50b3-CM68b6fc4e50b0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 05:08.37 | cirilo | blocky, the only affordable one is Salome :) |
| 05:08.55 | *** join/#kicad abcrawf (~abcrawf@apollo.acrawford.com) |
| 05:09.56 | cirilo | at a previous work place we used some $15k add-on to Autodesk |
| 05:10.28 | cirilo | but that was 10 years ago when we couldn't find any good enough freebies |
| 05:12.24 | *** join/#kicad oldtopman (~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman) |
| 05:25.53 | *** join/#kicad mgottschlag (~quassel@reactos/tester/phoenix64) |
| 05:28.04 | GyrosGeier | hm |
| 05:28.07 | GyrosGeier | http://www.hit-karlsruhe.de/Moorhuhn/daten/VRDM36x-DE.pdf |
| 05:28.09 | GyrosGeier | Page 9 |
| 05:29.00 | GyrosGeier | the suggested circuit makes sense for the desired voltage curve when switching on |
| 05:29.15 | GyrosGeier | but wouldn't I need a flyback for switching off? |
| 05:30.08 | trygvis | the motor control ciruits usually have flyback diodes internally |
| 05:30.33 | GyrosGeier | okay |
| 05:31.13 | *** join/#kicad tannewt (~textual@c-71-231-55-126.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 05:31.16 | GyrosGeier | also, can I replace that 1N4001 with a LSM1152J ? |
| 05:31.45 | GyrosGeier | wait |
| 05:32.05 | GyrosGeier | LSM115J |
| 05:32.12 | GyrosGeier | because I have a few of those |
| 05:32.32 | GyrosGeier | I think that should be even better for the electrolytic |
| 05:33.03 | trygvis | probably not, LSM115J is only rated for +15V |
| 05:33.11 | GyrosGeier | ah |
| 05:33.13 | GyrosGeier | good point |
| 05:36.39 | *** join/#kicad alphaferret (~user@54034F08.catv.pool.telekom.hu) |
| 05:41.38 | *** join/#kicad tannewt (~textual@c-71-231-55-126.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 06:07.11 | *** join/#kicad the193rd (~Ident@ip-178-202-196-234.hsi09.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 06:07.33 | *** join/#kicad crazy_imp (~mj@unaffiliated/crazy-imp/x-8704303) |
| 06:25.03 | *** join/#kicad the193rd (~Ident@ip-178-202-196-234.hsi09.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 06:28.36 | cirilo | I hate visual inspection of boards .. the boards look so nice until you see the small detail and then they look so ugly :O |
| 06:41.48 | *** join/#kicad kraiskil (~kraiskil@85-76-143-57-nat.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 06:41.49 | *** join/#kicad rubdos (~rubdos@host-85-27-50-55.dynamic.voo.be) |
| 06:45.58 | *** join/#kicad the193rd (~Ident@ip-178-202-196-234.hsi09.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 06:59.47 | *** join/#kicad eduardas_m (~eduardas_@213.197.143.19) |
| 07:00.47 | *** join/#kicad the193rd (~Ident@ip-178-202-196-234.hsi09.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 07:07.47 | *** join/#kicad firewalker (~firewalke@athedsl-05196.home.otenet.gr) |
| 07:11.31 | *** join/#kicad berjan (~chatzilla@ip54538619.speed.planet.nl) |
| 07:17.01 | *** join/#kicad the193rd (~Ident@ip-178-202-196-234.hsi09.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 07:21.49 | *** join/#kicad kraiskil (~kraiskil@145.247.15.238) |
| 07:22.25 | *** join/#kicad erichvk (~esh@ppp118-210-166-57.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net) |
| 07:34.59 | *** join/#kicad adfklj (b91f64ed@gateway/web/freenode/ip.185.31.100.237) |
| 07:35.29 | *** join/#kicad Wetmelon (~wetmelon@host-73-169.ncasgro.asheville.nc.us.clients.pavlovmedia.com) |
| 07:43.34 | *** join/#kicad kraiskil (~kraiskil@145.247.15.238) |
| 07:45.28 | inductiveload | cirilo, boards are never improved by adding components, I find |
| 07:46.39 | *** join/#kicad eldarkg (~eldar@94.180.215.46) |
| 07:46.48 | inductiveload | though if ICs had clear plastic pacakges so you can see the dies and leadframes, I could be convinced otherwise |
| 07:47.42 | archivist | LEDs do :) |
| 07:52.46 | inductiveload | light-bulbs too, and some vacuum tubes |
| 07:53.05 | inductiveload | and the occasionaly uv-eraseable eprom |
| 07:53.25 | inductiveload | but only in a little window, just teasing you |
| 07:54.08 | *** join/#kicad ricardocrudo (~ricardocr@185.19.197.52) |
| 07:54.11 | archivist | I spent ages staring through a stereo zoom microscope chasing shorts under chips |
| 07:57.51 | cirilo | ouch :O |
| 07:58.15 | cirilo | unfortunately X-ray inspection is one of those things which I expect will never be cheap |
| 07:58.58 | cirilo | I think of the earlier BGA work and marvel that people got good production yields :) |
| 07:59.35 | archivist | that and a high resolution DVM to find shorts |
| 08:00.00 | cirilo | then again I think early large color LCDs from Sharp had rejection rates >50% .. or at least those were the stories going around |
| 08:02.18 | inductiveload | cirilo, I'm amazed that BGAs work even now |
| 08:02.44 | inductiveload | that and that every transistor out of hundreds of millions on a CPU works well enough |
| 08:03.14 | inductiveload | and the hundreds of bond wires are all OK too |
| 08:16.23 | cirilo | heh .. well it's no wonder the most high-tech fabs cost multiple $B |
| 08:17.19 | archivist | part of the cost is rejection/waste ratio |
| 08:18.36 | *** join/#kicad mozzarella (~sam@unaffiliated/sam113101) |
| 08:20.03 | archivist | how it was done in the 1960's http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=semiconductor+manufacture |
| 08:35.57 | *** join/#kicad Guest40483 (~lkundrak@fedora/lkundrak) |
| 08:39.23 | *** join/#kicad stefan_slight (~Thunderbi@89.204.138.8) |
| 08:40.12 | *** join/#kicad pointhi_ (~pointhi@88.116.72.14) |
| 08:47.07 | *** join/#kicad xorly (~xorly@ip-89-176-10-118.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 08:47.58 | *** join/#kicad stelarcf (~stelarcf@92.81.84.163) |
| 08:48.38 | *** join/#kicad stelarcf (~stelarcf@92.81.84.163) |
| 08:50.59 | *** join/#kicad stelarcf (~stelarcf@92.81.84.163) |
| 08:55.15 | *** join/#kicad stelarcf (~stelarcf@92.81.84.163) |
| 08:55.35 | *** join/#kicad sandeepkr (~sandeepkr@182.75.187.110) |
| 09:05.01 | *** join/#kicad berjan (~chatzilla@2001:67c:2564:a156:1d71:4a25:6b30:e16c) |
| 09:11.56 | *** join/#kicad iaglium (~i@45.63.97.181) |
| 09:14.00 | xzcvczx | wonders why screen hasn't been modified to be able to use ssh transport to auto attach remote hosts |
| 09:19.01 | trygvis | tmux <3 |
| 09:19.18 | trygvis | but I used to always have ssh -t $host screen -rd in history |
| 09:19.23 | trygvis | back before tmux |
| 09:19.26 | trygvis | tmux <3 |
| 09:19.31 | Kinnison | hugs mosh |
| 09:20.00 | xzcvczx | trygvis: sure that works, but screen does have host.pid.[tty] or something options so i don't see why it can't have it natively |
| 09:20.32 | trygvis | yeah, true |
| 09:20.44 | trygvis | heh, I really meant mosh+tmux |
| 09:21.15 | xzcvczx | screen is also much more installed-by-default than tmux |
| 09:21.46 | cirilo | 'k - see you guys tomorrow - time to escape the computer |
| 09:23.03 | *** join/#kicad eszett (~Eszett@dslb-084-059-074-203.084.059.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
| 09:23.05 | eszett | hi |
| 09:36.49 | *** join/#kicad NoGodDamnIdea (~King@46.102.41.103) |
| 09:36.49 | *** join/#kicad NoGodDamnIdea (~King@unaffiliated/nogoddamnidea) |
| 09:56.24 | *** join/#kicad kuldeep (~kuldeep@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka) |
| 09:57.11 | *** join/#kicad sandeepkr (~sandeepkr@182.75.187.110) |
| 10:01.48 | *** join/#kicad kuldeep (~kuldeep@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka) |
| 10:02.02 | *** join/#kicad sandeepkr (~sandeepkr@182.75.187.110) |
| 10:04.41 | *** join/#kicad NoGodDamnIdea (~King@31.14.109.208) |
| 10:04.41 | *** join/#kicad NoGodDamnIdea (~King@unaffiliated/nogoddamnidea) |
| 10:19.51 | *** join/#kicad the193rd (~Ident@ip-178-202-194-15.hsi09.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 10:20.50 | *** join/#kicad shaun413 (uid121475@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lebswvfkccywlxmg) |
| 10:27.03 | *** join/#kicad the193rd (~Ident@ip-178-202-194-15.hsi09.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 10:32.57 | *** join/#kicad KarlZeilhofer (~Thunderbi@88-117-82-93.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 10:47.38 | *** join/#kicad ayjay (~ajp_@24-151-28-56.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) |
| 10:51.35 | *** join/#kicad Bird|otherbox (~Da@unaffiliated/htt-bird) |
| 10:59.32 | cyborg_ar | trygvis, :D |
| 11:02.25 | *** join/#kicad niki (~niki@0x3e2c86e7.mobile.telia.dk) |
| 11:03.06 | cyborg_ar | archivist, i like the little chutes http://www.collection.archivist.info/showresult.php?prog=1&srcprog=searchv13.php&srcdata=title&Type=PS&Accn_no=2285&subject=7450 |
| 11:04.16 | cyborg_ar | and solder fume extraction |
| 11:05.24 | archivist | cyborg_ar, this one amuses me, humans fitted to the machine http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=lucas+machine+stations |
| 11:07.57 | cyborg_ar | http://www.collection.archivist.info/showresult.php?prog=1&srcprog=searchv13.php&srcdata=title&Type=PS&Accn_no=2273&subject=7438 |
| 11:08.22 | cyborg_ar | you had to cross your eyes to use one of those stereo microscopes? |
| 11:09.27 | archivist | I suppose they were checking for abilities there |
| 11:10.31 | archivist | there were a few k images left when the factory was about to be demolished, managed to collect them |
| 11:11.25 | *** join/#kicad mozzarella (~sam@unaffiliated/sam113101) |
| 11:11.42 | cyborg_ar | it looks really neat |
| 11:11.55 | cyborg_ar | it was really high tech |
| 11:13.11 | cyborg_ar | the soldering stations for the modules have some great fume extraction, they did care for the ladies |
| 11:13.39 | archivist | this search tells me I have catalogued 2454 so far http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=lucas+ps |
| 11:15.17 | archivist | had to stare at the images to identify and write a title, some have a title sheet with info |
| 11:15.47 | cyborg_ar | http://www.collection.archivist.info/showresult.php?prog=1&srcprog=searchv13.php&srcdata=title&Type=PS&Accn_no=1558&subject=6740 LOL |
| 11:16.12 | cyborg_ar | i wonder if they actually used it in ads or they just wanted to stare at the girl's ass |
| 11:16.17 | archivist | not PC for these days |
| 11:16.40 | sibiria | is offended etc. |
| 11:16.47 | archivist | probably would have been used |
| 11:17.08 | SuperTaz | that's not a microscope |
| 11:17.18 | SuperTaz | or an eyechart exactly |
| 11:18.05 | cyborg_ar | my guess was to see how good their stereoscopic vision was |
| 11:18.13 | cyborg_ar | at a similar focal distance as the microscope |
| 11:18.14 | SuperTaz | if you look at her right eye, you'll see a lens in front of it...that device was used to test whether a prescription was correct |
| 11:18.22 | cyborg_ar | ahh |
| 11:18.30 | SuperTaz | before the modern devices to refract :) |
| 11:18.54 | SuperTaz | that's about 90% educated guess and 10% conjecture ;) |
| 11:19.00 | cyborg_ar | it seems like it was a pretty good place to work at in it's heyday |
| 11:19.21 | *** join/#kicad mozzarella (~sam@unaffiliated/sam113101) |
| 11:19.26 | SuperTaz | the factory with the swingarm chairs? |
| 11:19.48 | SuperTaz | looks like an assembly line for electronics |
| 11:19.53 | archivist | there is an ex worker site on the web, seems a happy bunch |
| 11:20.02 | SuperTaz | probably radio? |
| 11:20.04 | cyborg_ar | yeah |
| 11:20.06 | cyborg_ar | it's lucas |
| 11:20.10 | archivist | car devices |
| 11:20.10 | cyborg_ar | automotive |
| 11:20.13 | SuperTaz | ahhhh |
| 11:20.19 | SuperTaz | makes sense |
| 11:20.34 | cyborg_ar | thet assemble smoke machines ;) |
| 11:20.37 | archivist | that soldering station is a regulator |
| 11:20.48 | SuperTaz | lol |
| 11:20.57 | SuperTaz | to make sure they didn't make too many products? ;) |
| 11:22.03 | archivist | various versions of regulator http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=lucas+regulator |
| 11:22.14 | SuperTaz | ahhh, gotcha ;) |
| 11:22.46 | SuperTaz | seriously...that station with the soldering on one side and QA on the other is probably more efficient than modern human processes that do the same |
| 11:23.23 | SuperTaz | not than machine processes, but nowadays they rarely have such proximity, largely because there is much less hand soldering |
| 11:23.36 | SuperTaz | when I worked at MOT, we had a museum |
| 11:23.43 | cyborg_ar | i just love those chutes |
| 11:23.47 | cyborg_ar | very innovative |
| 11:23.54 | SuperTaz | yeah...that's what I was talking about |
| 11:23.59 | SuperTaz | super efficient |
| 11:24.02 | SuperTaz | though not ergonomic |
| 11:24.16 | archivist | and they are close enough to chatter |
| 11:24.24 | SuperTaz | yeah |
| 11:24.29 | SuperTaz | I'd imagine that was wartime? |
| 11:24.36 | SuperTaz | or an artifact of wartime |
| 11:26.04 | SuperTaz | no...too modern |
| 11:26.19 | SuperTaz | I forgot for a second why they used so many women |
| 11:26.40 | SuperTaz | it was (I kid you not) because they had smaller fingers and hands |
| 11:27.20 | cyborg_ar | yeah that was before they used japanese https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96iJsdGkl44 |
| 11:27.33 | SuperTaz | during wartime, it was because they were on the home front, but they realized outside of wartime, that women could handle smaller/more delicate parts more easily |
| 11:28.04 | SuperTaz | lol |
| 11:28.30 | SuperTaz | can't open the link (weird youtube issues) |
| 11:28.39 | cyborg_ar | and they are trained since kids to do delicate tasks (eg sewing) |
| 11:28.47 | SuperTaz | they were |
| 11:28.49 | SuperTaz | yes |
| 11:29.34 | SuperTaz | it was interesting, though, because it was an area where women were able to break stereotypes |
| 11:30.35 | SuperTaz | luckily they didn't use too much child labor |
| 11:31.41 | cyborg_ar | http://www.smalltownmusic.com/ebay/11-22-2011/folded_line_reverb_tank/1.jpg |
| 11:31.45 | *** join/#kicad Wetmelon (~wetmelon@host-73-169.ncasgro.asheville.nc.us.clients.pavlovmedia.com) |
| 11:31.45 | SuperTaz | most countries outlawed and/or restricted child labor in the right timeframe for them not to be used as much |
| 11:32.08 | *** join/#kicad seve (~seve@2604:180:2:1c3::27bd) |
| 11:32.13 | SuperTaz | wow |
| 11:32.30 | SuperTaz | kind of a crazy era, eh? |
| 11:33.21 | SuperTaz | if you put a label on like that today, you'd probably be shot |
| 11:33.29 | archivist | there is a spring reverb in the garage here, must see if it has a label |
| 11:33.44 | SuperTaz | aye, that'd be interesting |
| 11:34.08 | SuperTaz | now I need to start hunting at yard sales for spring reverbs |
| 11:34.25 | SuperTaz | can't really put one on my pedal board, though |
| 11:35.46 | archivist | mine is accutronics a division of hammond, no girls though, just a list of patents |
| 11:36.12 | cyborg_ar | aw |
| 11:36.36 | cyborg_ar | i love the controlled atmosphere conditions thing |
| 11:36.44 | cyborg_ar | probably means that the factory had a fan |
| 11:38.33 | SuperTaz | or a very controlling foreman? |
| 11:39.20 | SuperTaz | cyborg_ar: do you own that reverb, or just pulled the pic off an ebay listing? |
| 11:40.15 | archivist | heh see workers in rows http://www.lucasmemories.co.uk/site/GreatKingStreet/index.html |
| 11:40.24 | cyborg_ar | picked it off the internet |
| 11:42.21 | *** join/#kicad firewalker (~firewalke@87.202.20.116) |
| 11:42.36 | *** join/#kicad berjan_ (~chatzilla@2001:67c:2564:a156:4cb7:4853:fdce:81b1) |
| 11:43.15 | SuperTaz | lol yeah |
| 11:48.13 | SuperTaz | I kind of want to build a spring reverb to add to my signal chain, even though I have a modeled spring reverb that's really good now |
| 11:48.21 | SuperTaz | just for the fun of it |
| 11:51.24 | SuperTaz | I suppose I could build one to be bolted vertically to the outside of my cabinet, but it'd be a pain to isolate it |
| 11:52.56 | archivist | the one I have here has internal mounting isolation built in |
| 11:53.49 | SuperTaz | cool |
| 11:53.59 | SuperTaz | yeah, I'd have to build a custom amp to be able to use one |
| 11:54.48 | SuperTaz | which actually sounds like a lot of fun and something I will do someday, in my spare time |
| 11:56.56 | SuperTaz | get some NOS tubes and build a hybrid tube/solid state amp with a spring reverb built in |
| 11:57.39 | SuperTaz | make sure to label all the pots 0-11 ;) |
| 12:02.50 | archivist | I hate tooobs |
| 12:04.18 | *** join/#kicad the193rd (~Ident@ip-178-202-194-15.hsi09.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 12:13.47 | *** join/#kicad eduardas_m (~eduardas_@213.197.143.19) |
| 12:14.25 | *** join/#kicad eduardas_m (~eduardas_@213.197.143.19) |
| 12:17.47 | *** join/#kicad the193rd (~Ident@ip-178-202-194-15.hsi09.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 12:22.55 | *** join/#kicad nitrousnrg (~quassel@190-103-222-12.cepanet.com.ar) |
| 12:22.58 | *** join/#kicad nitrousnrg_ (~quassel@190-103-222-12.cepanet.com.ar) |
| 12:24.02 | *** join/#kicad stefan_slight (~Thunderbi@89.204.154.63) |
| 12:31.13 | *** join/#kicad Thor-Arne (~email@34.79-161-66.customer.lyse.net) |
| 12:33.10 | *** join/#kicad newbie16 (~firewalke@ppp-94-67-137-86.home.otenet.gr) |
| 12:41.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://neo900.org/stuff/werner/tmp/eeshow/ |
| 12:42.24 | eszett | interesting, but i dont get its purpose what does eeshow offer kicad cant? |
| 12:42.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | git access, and DIFFs |
| 12:42.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | and cmdline printing of schematics |
| 12:43.10 | eszett | i will give it a try |
| 12:43.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | yw |
| 12:45.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~eeshow |
| 12:45.00 | infobot | methinks eeshow is https://neo900.org/git?p=eeshow;a=summary |
| 12:45.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~eeshow is also https://neo900.org/stuff/werner/tmp/eeshow/ |
| 12:45.13 | infobot | DocScrutinizer05: okay |
| 12:45.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~eeshow |
| 12:45.35 | infobot | i heard eeshow is https://neo900.org/git?p=eeshow;a=summary, or https://neo900.org/stuff/werner/tmp/eeshow/ |
| 12:52.11 | GyrosGeier | http://ci.kicad-pcb.org/job/windows-kicad-msys2-nightlies/lastFailedBuild/console |
| 12:52.15 | GyrosGeier | something is fishy |
| 12:55.43 | reportingsjr | at last, I have internet back! |
| 12:56.26 | GyrosGeier | 5 |
| 12:56.58 | reportingsjr | and it is way better than the last place. Beautiful! |
| 12:58.16 | eszett | welcome back reportingsjr |
| 12:59.16 | reportingsjr | hHH |
| 12:59.19 | reportingsjr | haha* |
| 12:59.43 | reportingsjr | I used about 60GB of data on my phone in the last 5 weeks |
| 13:09.30 | GyrosGeier | still doesn't have an actual home |
| 13:09.49 | GyrosGeier | the plan is to spend next week traveling from camping site to camping site |
| 13:09.49 | reportingsjr | GyrosGeier: couch surfing? |
| 13:09.53 | reportingsjr | ah |
| 13:09.55 | GyrosGeier | partially |
| 13:09.58 | reportingsjr | I almost ended up in that situation |
| 13:10.10 | GyrosGeier | it is kind of annoying |
| 13:10.21 | GyrosGeier | but OTOH my expenses are a lot lower |
| 13:10.27 | GyrosGeier | this city is expensive |
| 13:11.05 | GyrosGeier | so |
| 13:11.11 | GyrosGeier | time to clean up the hackerspace |
| 13:13.08 | GyrosGeier | wonders why msys2 compiler startup is so slow |
| 13:13.35 | GyrosGeier | it takes over two minutes to compile the bitmaps |
| 13:13.54 | GyrosGeier | the same machine needs less than 10 seconds under Linux |
| 13:14.32 | *** join/#kicad firebird__ (~firebird@125.16.18.198) |
| 13:16.19 | reportingsjr | internet is much better which means I can switch back to my desktop. Wow my monitors look like shit now. |
| 13:16.30 | reportingsjr | I got used to a 1080p screen that is only 14" vs 21" |
| 13:22.35 | GyrosGeier | nickoe, http://ci.kicad-pcb.org/job/windows-kicad-msys2-nightlies/723/console is my attempt of giving a faster machine to the nightly build |
| 13:22.49 | GyrosGeier | that is just a freshly installed msys2 |
| 13:23.09 | GyrosGeier | the builds before that on the same machine had weird problems |
| 13:37.52 | *** join/#kicad rohitksingh (~rohit@180.151.119.206) |
| 13:44.02 | decimad | gnarf, sometimes the msvc incremental rebuild info loses it and makes you rebuild the whole thing -.- |
| 13:46.37 | decimad | seems to happen with these super-smart covariant virtual overrides |
| 13:55.22 | *** join/#kicad cosmobird (~firebird@125.16.18.198) |
| 13:56.52 | *** join/#kicad tom_fig (42bce4eb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.188.228.235) |
| 14:00.18 | reportingsjr | decimad: are you using visual studio as your IDE? |
| 14:00.43 | *** join/#kicad alphaferret (~user@54034F08.catv.pool.telekom.hu) |
| 14:02.04 | *** join/#kicad stambaughw (62658c62@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.101.140.98) |
| 14:11.15 | reportingsjr | huh, it was kind of digikey to purchase kicad.org. On the other hand, they gave money to people distributing malware. ð |
| 14:12.56 | c4757p | hm. Wayne's "not going to push his luck" on getting the domain transferred totally back to us-- |
| 14:13.10 | c4757p | I mean...they did a nice thing by taking it over |
| 14:13.19 | c4757p | but...it's still directly named after our project |
| 14:13.36 | c4757p | if they don't transfer it entirely, they're still squatting it, they're just not squatting /and/ distributing malware... |
| 14:14.10 | reportingsjr | yeah, but I'm pretty sure they are allowed to do so |
| 14:14.35 | c4757p | assuming our name has no legal protections of any sort, yes, but it's still only a /bit/ less shady.. |
| 14:14.36 | reportingsjr | pissing off one of the largest electronics distributors seems like a bad idea |
| 14:15.07 | alphaferret | why did they buy it |
| 14:15.14 | reportingsjr | I'm gonna consider this overall a pretty big win. People trying to find kicad and getting malware is way, way worse than them getting digikey instead. |
| 14:15.25 | c4757p | alphaferret: a customer complained to them about getting malware off the site |
| 14:15.28 | reportingsjr | alphaferret: customers of theirs were trying to find kicad and getting malware. |
| 14:15.38 | c4757p | reportingsjr: oh, it's a win so far, I'm very grateful that they did that |
| 14:15.44 | reportingsjr | I'm actually pretty shocked that they would put so much money towards that. |
| 14:15.50 | c4757p | I will, however, change that viewpoint entirely if they won't give it over to us |
| 14:16.12 | c4757p | getting it away from malware distributors is good. taking it for themselves is /not/. they're not the kicad project |
| 14:17.00 | alphaferret | was the malware ever confirmed or only claimed |
| 14:17.11 | reportingsjr | ehhh, it's kinda like advertising :P |
| 14:17.20 | reportingsjr | alphaferret: pretty sure it was confirmed by mroszko |
| 14:17.28 | c4757p | yeah, I believe so |
| 14:17.32 | c4757p | either way I remember it being /super/ dodgy |
| 14:18.12 | reportingsjr | Let's try and stay off of digikey's shit list for now and if they say they are keeping it stay quiet for a bit? |
| 14:18.31 | Thor-Arne | it was a suspisious adverticement suppiler on that page, i checked it several times |
| 14:18.31 | reportingsjr | If they do that reapproach in 6 months to a year and try to work out a deal. |
| 14:18.37 | c4757p | I don't find DigiKey's "shit list" partiicularly frightening |
| 14:18.57 | cyborg_ar | it was startling when i realized |
| 14:19.02 | c4757p | -i |
| 14:19.26 | cyborg_ar | though i am glad they just did a dumb redirect to their site instead of going specifically to their eda tool |
| 14:19.38 | cyborg_ar | so i do believe they didn't want to do evil at all |
| 14:19.47 | c4757p | yeah |
| 14:19.57 | c4757p | like I said |
| 14:20.00 | c4757p | I'm happy with them, now |
| 14:20.05 | c4757p | :) |
| 14:20.18 | c4757p | just saying, I won't be if they decide to ignore us and not give us /our bloody domain/ |
| 14:20.20 | cyborg_ar | i would not mind seeing a digikey logo in the kicad site |
| 14:20.28 | reportingsjr | It isn't our domain |
| 14:20.33 | cyborg_ar | specially if this opened a relationship for other stuff |
| 14:20.38 | alphaferret | i had no idea there was so much intrigue in the world of schematics |
| 14:20.47 | c4757p | no, it's not legally our domain, but it's directly named after us |
| 14:20.52 | reportingsjr | and? |
| 14:20.56 | cyborg_ar | reportingsjr, it is a trademark though, not registered, but a trademark |
| 14:21.06 | reportingsjr | ok? |
| 14:21.10 | reportingsjr | We had the opportunity to buy it |
| 14:21.14 | reportingsjr | no one dide.. |
| 14:21.24 | reportingsjr | s/e//g |
| 14:21.31 | c4757p | well, yes, which is why we can't just take it back from them directly |
| 14:21.32 | cyborg_ar | reportingsjr, nobody is suggesting digikey hand it over for free |
| 14:21.47 | c4757p | but in the court of Not Being a Dick, you are required not to snatch up domains that look like they should be associated with someone else |
| 14:21.56 | c4757p | that's just basic Being a Decent Person |
| 14:22.00 | reportingsjr | sure |
| 14:22.20 | reportingsjr | I don't see it unreasonable for them to ask for something in return since they spent a good chunk of change on it though. |
| 14:23.07 | reportingsjr | whether or not they consider their logo on the kicad website we'll see |
| 14:23.42 | c4757p | I don't see it as unreasonable to /ask/, and if I were in charge of the webiste I'd happily oblige |
| 14:24.03 | *** join/#kicad Wind0r (~Wind0r@unaffiliated/wind0r) |
| 14:24.05 | reportingsjr | sure |
| 14:24.13 | cyborg_ar | yeah the only tricky thing is that they do have a competing eda, but i dunno how serious they are about it, i've never used it |
| 14:24.17 | reportingsjr | I totally agree with that |
| 14:24.21 | cyborg_ar | and dont know what kind of people use it |
| 14:25.30 | c4757p | I doubt many commercial EDA makers, even small ones, see us as a legitimate competitor |
| 14:25.38 | alphaferret | what's the worst case, you change the official site name to kicad-eda or something |
| 14:25.50 | c4757p | well, we already have kicad-pcb.org |
| 14:26.29 | c4757p | of course the exact domain name isn't /that/ important. nobody just types in domain names anymore, everybody who wants our website will just google 'kicad' |
| 14:26.46 | archivist | linuxcnc had a similar problem with an ape, EMC enhanced machine controller being our old name |
| 14:27.35 | *** join/#kicad leila (~leila@a82-95-232-65.adsl.xs4all.nl) |
| 14:28.52 | archivist | send them a lawyers letter about "passing off" as kicad, in the UK that is illegal |
| 14:29.07 | c4757p | they're not in the UK :) |
| 14:29.17 | cyborg_ar | they are probably in russia |
| 14:29.29 | archivist | they do have a uk warehouse :) |
| 14:29.29 | cyborg_ar | but you might be able to use legal persuation on the registrar |
| 14:29.40 | cyborg_ar | (squatters) |
| 14:29.47 | c4757p | I did a little bit of quick research and it doesn't look like they're doing anything illegal unless they use that domain to actually try to convince people they're giving them something called kicad, that isn't what is /actually/ kicad |
| 14:29.51 | cyborg_ar | i see no reason to lash out at digikey |
| 14:29.58 | c4757p | I don't see anything putting them legally in the wrong by just having the domain |
| 14:30.05 | NoGodDamnIdea | guys |
| 14:30.12 | NoGodDamnIdea | can kicad make a one click bom? |
| 14:30.15 | c4757p | (and I'm pretty sure they'd have checked /anyway/ before dropping $5k on it) |
| 14:30.22 | cyborg_ar | NoGodDamnIdea, lol |
| 14:30.24 | archivist | I di, it redirects to non kicad |
| 14:30.28 | archivist | do |
| 14:30.36 | c4757p | NoGodDamnIdea: one click? well, fewer clicks maybe, if you use the one in pcbnew |
| 14:31.03 | NoGodDamnIdea | well im interested if i can export it |
| 14:31.08 | NoGodDamnIdea | to a .tsv file |
| 14:31.42 | c4757p | archivist: yeah, but there's no active misrepresentation |
| 14:31.57 | c4757p | no reasonable person would think that kicad.org redirecting to digikey.com implies that kicad /is/ digikey :P |
| 14:32.33 | archivist | they may think kicad is somehow not real opensource |
| 14:32.34 | NoGodDamnIdea | like from a digikey list or something |
| 14:32.37 | alphaferret | why doesn't someone just call them |
| 14:32.39 | c4757p | the only way I can see them infringing on the unregistered trademark, bearing in mind that the rules are much, much looser for unregistered trademarks, is if they started /calling their EDA package kicad/ |
| 14:32.39 | NoGodDamnIdea | to a tsv file :/ |
| 14:33.08 | c4757p | NoGodDamnIdea: dunno, sorry :P |
| 14:33.28 | cyborg_ar | or at least making that domain redirect directly to their eda tool |
| 14:34.06 | cyborg_ar | where a "reasonable person" would think that the product is what's called now |
| 14:34.08 | c4757p | even then I'm not sure they could get in trouble, unless we got a /really/ 'good' lawyer ;) |
| 14:34.12 | alphaferret | NoGodDamnIdea, use the export bom in pcbnew |
| 14:34.21 | c4757p | as long as the page it goes to still describes what it is honestly |
| 14:34.23 | cyborg_ar | yeah it would have to be a really expensive lawyer |
| 14:34.32 | dunz0r | Tried just asking Digikey? |
| 14:34.40 | cyborg_ar | still, this is all idle speculation |
| 14:34.41 | dunz0r | I mean, maybe they're nice guys? |
| 14:34.48 | cyborg_ar | yes they are doing just that |
| 14:34.51 | c4757p | dunz0r: yeah - I'm just speaking hypothetically, if they refuse |
| 14:34.54 | cyborg_ar | we're just jerking off here |
| 14:35.14 | c4757p | so far, it seems they're being really nice about this, I'm not /actually/ angry at them, just pondering what the case would be if they did tell us to piss off |
| 14:36.13 | c4757p | (in other words, I woke up late and am still undercaffeinated, and waiting for the coffee to work before I do any Real Work ;) |
| 14:37.19 | alphaferret | underiodinated |
| 14:39.36 | *** join/#kicad Plugh (~kcozens@CPE68b6fc4e50b3-CM68b6fc4e50b0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 14:40.49 | *** join/#kicad stelarcf (~stelarcf@92.81.115.213) |
| 14:47.12 | xzcvczx | c4757p: the problem is non-undercaffeinated for you is a .42 blood-caffine content |
| 14:47.31 | c4757p | lol, I don't actually drink that much coffee |
| 14:48.22 | *** join/#kicad stelarcf (~stelarcf@92.81.115.213) |
| 14:55.16 | xzcvczx | sure ya done |
| 14:55.17 | xzcvczx | dont |
| 14:56.43 | *** join/#kicad cosmobird (~firebird@125.16.18.198) |
| 15:02.45 | invultri_ | Do I need specific ESD protection on internal connectors (no ad-hoc connections) |
| 15:05.30 | cyborg_ar | i dont think so, unless the circuit is specially sensitive |
| 15:07.37 | *** join/#kicad stelarcf (~stelarcf@92.81.115.213) |
| 15:08.01 | invultri_ | thanks. |
| 15:08.12 | *** join/#kicad stelarcf (~stelarcf@92.81.115.213) |
| 15:08.23 | cyborg_ar | for internal connections that can only be accessed with the case open, you can assume the person poking around is taking proper ESD precautions |
| 15:08.44 | invultri_ | and for good measure I added a text on the schematic ;) |
| 15:09.00 | invultri_ | -> Internal connectors are not meant to be hotplugged, |
| 15:09.00 | invultri_ | You run the risk to toast the chips. |
| 15:09.28 | c4757p | I'm making a computer motherboard |
| 15:09.38 | c4757p | my only protection devices are on the power connector, RS232 port, USB port, and SD card slot |
| 15:09.38 | invultri_ | this schematic looks so .. simple now |
| 15:09.39 | c4757p | that's it :) |
| 15:10.05 | cyborg_ar | c4757p, you dont really need any more |
| 15:10.07 | c4757p | plenty of internal conenctions and whatnot |
| 15:10.15 | c4757p | but I haven't put anything on those |
| 15:10.27 | cyborg_ar | unless you explicitly want to allow chimpanzees to fumble with the internal connectors |
| 15:10.32 | c4757p | I /might/ add protection to the JTAG connectors, just because those will be used a /lot/ during development. |
| 15:11.20 | cyborg_ar | c4757p, well a good reason to is that a jtag connector would be attached to a cable of certain lenght, attached to another system that could be charged at a completelly different potential |
| 15:11.52 | cyborg_ar | but a card edge connector for a card that will be powered by the motherboard? meh |
| 15:12.45 | c4757p | yeah |
| 15:13.07 | c4757p | (actually, oh shit, I /haven't/ put the proper protection on the power input, I just meant to. *adds that to the PCB todo list*) |
| 15:13.38 | cyborg_ar | :D i'm about to lay out a GPS/IMU sensor board |
| 15:13.51 | invultri_ | I have a sad IO pin that I need to give a purpose ;) (due to expander connectors being full) |
| 15:13.55 | c4757p | the power input directly drives the 12V bus, not just the inputs to the downstream regulators, so I want proper protection on it |
| 15:14.06 | c4757p | I've got reverse polarity protection right now, but that's it |
| 15:14.11 | cyborg_ar | invultri_, wire it to a test post |
| 15:14.24 | cyborg_ar | it's always handy to have extra pins when debugging |
| 15:14.29 | decimad | reportingsjr: yup |
| 15:14.35 | c4757p | going to add a fuse and an SCR programmed to trip at 14V, I think |
| 15:14.38 | archivist | all the decouplers on the 12v should be enough |
| 15:14.57 | cyborg_ar | c4757p, did you put your fancy inrush protection circuit? |
| 15:15.01 | c4757p | yeah |
| 15:15.06 | c4757p | that's pretty much necessary |
| 15:15.15 | c4757p | it has a /fuckton/ of /very low impedance/ capacitance at the input |
| 15:15.20 | c4757p | that pisses off upstream regulators |
| 15:15.23 | cyborg_ar | yeah |
| 15:15.31 | *** join/#kicad THX (~noone@176-12-58-185.pon.spectrumnet.bg) |
| 15:15.32 | c4757p | I've had similar boards trip the overcurrent protection on power supplies |
| 15:15.58 | cyborg_ar | one thing i would like to improve on this board is power distribution/sequencing |
| 15:16.06 | invultri_ | cyborg_ar: even if its on a gpio ? |
| 15:16.55 | cyborg_ar | something annoying is that i have an I2C bus with pullups on a rail that is on, but one of the devices on it could be optionally off |
| 15:17.04 | reportingsjr | sheeeiiittt |
| 15:17.10 | cyborg_ar | that would not fly |
| 15:17.16 | cyborg_ar | so i remove the option to turn it off |
| 15:17.19 | reportingsjr | I just took my website down right after sending out some resumes.. >.< |
| 15:17.34 | c4757p | I divided my I2C bus into an S0 branch and an S5 branch, with MOSFET "isolators" between them |
| 15:17.48 | c4757p | anything that turns off in S5 is on the S5 branch, and that whole branch gets shut down |
| 15:17.56 | cyborg_ar | hmm |
| 15:17.57 | c4757p | er, other way around |
| 15:17.59 | c4757p | but you get the idea |
| 15:18.06 | cyborg_ar | i'll study that |
| 15:18.12 | cyborg_ar | sounds like a good idea |
| 15:18.13 | c4757p | hint: that typical MOSFET level shifting circuit also works to isolate a powered-down bus |
| 15:18.19 | c4757p | just make sure the gate is on the side that powers down ;) |
| 15:18.33 | c4757p | (and the body diode is pointing against the side that powers down) |
| 15:19.05 | cyborg_ar | well now that i remember, the I2C is always on, the one that can be off is the UART, so i may just need one mosfet |
| 15:19.17 | *** join/#kicad phinxy (~tehhhd@unaffiliated/phinxy) |
| 15:20.05 | cyborg_ar | i want to shut down everything when the USB converter detects a suspended host |
| 15:20.16 | cyborg_ar | so that i don't violate the USB spec |
| 15:21.05 | *** join/#kicad Haohmaru (~Haohmaru@176-12-58-185.pon.spectrumnet.bg) |
| 15:21.08 | c4757p | nods |
| 15:21.44 | xzcvczx | wonders why the hell -o is sort in top |
| 15:21.52 | cyborg_ar | but there is a misconfiguration corner case where the device may configure the suspend line as a gpio and shut off the device at the receiving end of the UART, but still send data |
| 15:23.07 | cyborg_ar | that's an annoying thing with programmable stuff, you have to design it so it's hard to do a "poke of death" where you can damage the electronics just by misconfiguring the device |
| 15:27.23 | invultri_ | btw I should never have to put *.bak, and *.bck files into |
| 15:27.28 | invultri_ | source control ? |
| 15:27.38 | invultri_ | and I suppose none of the -cache either |
| 15:28.36 | tom_fig | Yeah, those are all on my gitignore list |
| 15:28.47 | *** join/#kicad MacInLew (~textual@137.190.52.118) |
| 15:29.47 | c4757p | nono |
| 15:29.49 | c4757p | keep the -cache |
| 15:29.52 | c4757p | /always/ |
| 15:29.55 | c4757p | .bak and .bck can go |
| 15:30.17 | c4757p | but -cache is where the schematic symbols you use go. without it, the project is unusable without access to the full set of libraries it was created with |
| 15:31.04 | tom_fig | Oh, duh, sorry for suggesting that, lol |
| 15:31.16 | c4757p | haha |
| 15:31.49 | *** join/#kicad antonioclj (~Thunderbi@186.210.151.107) |
| 15:32.35 | invultri_ | ok |
| 15:33.24 | xzcvczx | hopefully one day -cache will just be a distant memory |
| 15:33.30 | xzcvczx | in 2023 |
| 15:33.34 | c4757p | yeah, with the new sch file format it'll be gone |
| 15:33.48 | xzcvczx | so 2023.... over? under? |
| 15:34.12 | c4757p | lol |
| 15:34.17 | c4757p | I'd have guessed 2018 ;) |
| 15:35.10 | invultri_ | Pin connected to some other pins but no pins to drive it <-- o_O it IS the vcc pin |
| 15:35.35 | xzcvczx | oooo think you a smart-ass huh.... since the last releaseish of kicad was 2013 + almost 3 years til 2015 for 4.0 that 5.0 will be an additional 3 years |
| 15:36.05 | *** join/#kicad Strontium (~Strontium@192.228.191.95) |
| 15:36.11 | c4757p | invultri_: yes, but vcc has to be driven by a power supply, doesn't it? ;) |
| 15:36.36 | xzcvczx | i was always told that electronics could be powered by hopes and dreams..... did you lie to me c4? |
| 15:36.40 | invultri_ | yes... so I guess I need to set something to power out then |
| 15:37.01 | c4757p | yes |
| 15:37.05 | *** join/#kicad smoores (~smoores@c-67-188-210-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 15:37.24 | c4757p | invultri_: if there's no clear "power supply" device, you can use a PWR_FLAG instead to mark the point where power enters the net |
| 15:38.52 | invultri_ | seems that doing a save-as messes up stuff big time |
| 15:38.57 | c4757p | O_o |
| 15:39.49 | invultri_ | I needed to add the custom lib again, all is well |
| 15:48.14 | cyborg_ar | god |
| 15:48.25 | cyborg_ar | there's some serious crashing bugs with the pns now |
| 15:48.29 | invultri_ | phew... initial version of this schematic pushed. |
| 15:48.46 | cyborg_ar | they might be fixed in master, gotta update |
| 15:49.16 | xzcvczx | thats typically a good idea if you are running trunk/master |
| 15:50.49 | tom_fig | Yeah cyborg, I've been having issues with pns crashes |
| 15:51.36 | tom_fig | I made a debug build from master yesterday, so maybe some stuff is fixed. Haven't used it enough to find out. |
| 15:51.39 | xzcvczx | poor tom.... never gets a break |
| 15:51.45 | c4757p | huh |
| 15:51.50 | c4757p | hasn't had much trouble with pns lately |
| 15:52.01 | c4757p | other than the shove behavior being a little quirky ever since track locking was added |
| 15:52.05 | xzcvczx | c4757p: yeah well you still haven't finished your copmuter |
| 15:52.21 | tom_fig | Yeah, some of the shove behavior is hilarious |
| 15:53.14 | cyborg_ar | one thing that happens is when hitting the delete key one time too many |
| 15:53.29 | cyborg_ar | also i had problems with the differential pairs |
| 15:53.37 | c4757p | <cyborg_ar> one thing that happens is when hitting the delete key one time too many --- urgh, that sounds bad |
| 15:53.52 | cyborg_ar | it's the new delete while still in pns mode |
| 15:54.27 | cyborg_ar | it wouldnt be as bad if crashing pcbnew didn't crash the whole damn kicad |
| 15:55.10 | cyborg_ar | meh, wayne reverted the generated files commit, now triggered a bigger rebuild than necessary |
| 15:55.25 | c4757p | yeah, but it doesn't take much to trigger a full rebuild :P |
| 15:55.27 | c4757p | also, dammit. |
| 15:55.53 | tom_fig | I have the exact same issue sometimes cyborg |
| 15:55.54 | c4757p | sighs at niki |
| 15:56.00 | tom_fig | I can't replicate it when I want to though :\ |
| 15:56.18 | cyborg_ar | tom_fig, let's try and see if we can come up with a way |
| 15:56.50 | reportingsjr | looks around |
| 15:56.54 | reportingsjr | hello digikey employee |
| 15:56.57 | c4757p | haha |
| 15:57.11 | archivist | kickbans reportingsjr |
| 15:57.21 | c4757p | hey, he only said one was on the mailing list, he probably just assumes everyone on the IRC channel is a dick ;) |
| 15:57.30 | invultri_ | crap... another bug to fix -_- |
| 15:57.59 | reportingsjr | why would a digikey person send a private email containing quotes from the mailing list? |
| 15:58.08 | cyborg_ar | meh |
| 15:58.09 | c4757p | no idea. |
| 15:58.13 | cyborg_ar | human beings |
| 15:58.24 | cyborg_ar | let's stop making a soap opera out of this |
| 15:58.31 | cyborg_ar | i should have emailed wayne directly |
| 15:58.36 | cyborg_ar | bleh |
| 15:59.08 | xzcvczx | yeah i was expecting that |
| 15:59.29 | c4757p | I /don't/ like that Wayne is trying to stop open discussion about it. |
| 15:59.58 | c4757p | that's how open-source projects /work/, people discuss openly and voice their opinions so others may consider them |
| 16:00.07 | cyborg_ar | i think it is sensible |
| 16:00.14 | c4757p | if it damages a "potential relationship" - oh well, whatever, we were doing fine without that relationship before |
| 16:00.15 | xzcvczx | but it is dealing with a commercial entity :P |
| 16:00.22 | cyborg_ar | we only have half a conversation and are speculating |
| 16:00.34 | cyborg_ar | there's about nothing of worth that can be said in the open |
| 16:00.39 | c4757p | doesn't matter |
| 16:00.51 | xzcvczx | but yeah i hope the dk employee didn't bother quoting me as i was just statying fact |
| 16:00.51 | *** join/#kicad blaze (~blaze@unaffiliated/blaze) |
| 16:00.55 | cyborg_ar | now things like pushing dicks code from behind the scenes is a different matter |
| 16:01.18 | c4757p | discussion about project management should always be open and unrestricted, even if some people are saying things you don't like |
| 16:01.34 | c4757p | sure, we only have half the story, but the proper response is to /ignore/ the people talking about things they don't know about |
| 16:02.22 | *** join/#kicad Laksen (~Laksen@unaffiliated/laksen) |
| 16:02.24 | c4757p | perhaps I'm not much of a businessman....but a potential "mututally beneficial relationship" doesn't mean much to me when none of us even knew it was possible a couple days ago, and we were still doing just fine |
| 16:02.29 | c4757p | mutually* |
| 16:02.30 | cyborg_ar | well it doesnt help matters if you're trying to cut a deal with an entity that could not care less about OSS politics and could have their sensibilities hurt |
| 16:02.36 | c4757p | but that's my point |
| 16:02.38 | c4757p | we don't need that deal |
| 16:02.39 | reportingsjr | " perhaps I'm not much of a businessman" |
| 16:02.44 | cyborg_ar | it's normal professional courtesy |
| 16:02.44 | reportingsjr | perhaps? :) |
| 16:02.48 | c4757p | if they're going to have a fit about things people have said, tell them to piss off |
| 16:02.52 | xzcvczx | did you not see the discussion like a few weeks ago about this exact issue in here? |
| 16:02.56 | c4757p | cyborg_ar: but we're not /professional/ |
| 16:02.59 | c4757p | this is a /community project/ |
| 16:03.09 | c4757p | and members of the community should be able to speak their minds |
| 16:03.23 | reportingsjr | yes, but speak when we have all of the info, haha |
| 16:03.35 | c4757p | if some digikey employee doesn't like it, that's /their/ problem. if we didn't need them three days ago when we hadn't heard of this, we still don't need them now |
| 16:03.45 | reportingsjr | otherwise we are speaking out of our asses |
| 16:03.47 | xzcvczx | the thing is though is the domain is pretty much just dead baggage to dk as they can never use really use it |
| 16:03.50 | c4757p | reportingsjr: yup! |
| 16:03.54 | reportingsjr | c4757p: dude, chill out |
| 16:04.06 | c4757p | speaking out of our asses should be /allowed/, that's part of permitting open discussion |
| 16:04.14 | c4757p | <reportingsjr> c4757p: dude, chill out -- I'm not upset or anything :P |
| 16:04.18 | c4757p | I just don't agree with you :P |
| 16:04.31 | reportingsjr | http://lpontius.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/dig1.jpg |
| 16:04.39 | xzcvczx | molly is just mad at c4757p because he wouldn't let her sleep last night |
| 16:04.46 | cyborg_ar | hahaha |
| 16:04.47 | xzcvczx | so hes mad at the world |
| 16:04.59 | cyborg_ar | maybe too much coffee |
| 16:05.04 | cyborg_ar | or too little |
| 16:05.19 | xzcvczx | coffee/bea............. |
| 16:05.23 | c4757p | dude... I don't know where anyone sees that I'm angry or upset or whatever :P |
| 16:05.33 | xzcvczx | c4757p: your webcam |
| 16:05.41 | cyborg_ar | c4757p, it's hard to tell with text |
| 16:05.50 | c4757p | I'm just saying... we should foster an environment of open communication between all members of the project, whether or not we like what they're saying |
| 16:06.00 | tom_fig | I don't know about you guys, but I can feel the spittle from here :O |
| 16:06.16 | cyborg_ar | that is a good sentiment, but i feel this particular case is not the best to push the issue |
| 16:06.17 | reportingsjr | c4757p: you're saying some rather inflammatory things even if you don't feel like you are. |
| 16:06.30 | c4757p | if someone offends someone at DigiKey and makes them not like us anymore, that is unforunate, but a /necessary consequence/ of open communication |
| 16:06.51 | *** join/#kicad mgottschlag (~quassel@reactos/tester/phoenix64) |
| 16:06.52 | cyborg_ar | there are other things like actual arguments about the code and project direction that deserve better open discussion |
| 16:06.58 | reportingsjr | seriously, we don't need to instantly jump to "what if everyone is an asshole?" mode of thinking |
| 16:07.16 | *** join/#kicad m_w (~Michael@ip68-14-170-91.ok.ok.cox.net) |
| 16:07.16 | cyborg_ar | for example putting some thought in the way programs are tied together and that perhaps dick idea wasn't the best |
| 16:07.47 | tom_fig | Hmm |
| 16:07.47 | c4757p | I don't understand how "everyone should be able to speak their mind" is inflammatory. |
| 16:07.58 | reportingsjr | c4757p: that's fine, just know from outside of your mind it is. |
| 16:08.09 | xzcvczx | meh all of it should just be libbed out to platform independence (without wx) and then let the platform crap all be a thin-layer on top using whatever toolkit |
| 16:08.15 | cyborg_ar | that is a more real issue than idle bickering about digikey |
| 16:08.36 | reportingsjr | at the local hackerspace I don't /feel/ like a dick, but I know I often am because of how blunt I am. Knowing that I will sometimes try to adjust how I say things. |
| 16:08.41 | c4757p | reportingsjr: ...so, that's it? "you're wrong, and I can't explain why, but just know that outside of your mind, you're wrong"? |
| 16:09.12 | cyborg_ar | xzcvczx, i agree, there should be a big cleaver driven between the logic and the UI, but there needs to be a good direction so that people can send patches and get them accepted |
| 16:09.14 | reportingsjr | c4757p: because you won't be convinced of any other argument. |
| 16:09.19 | c4757p | you haven't made one! |
| 16:09.24 | c4757p | you just said "that's inflammatory" |
| 16:09.27 | c4757p | how?? |
| 16:09.49 | reportingsjr | c4757p: you (even hypothetically) said digikey folks are going to be dicks about this situation. |
| 16:09.54 | c4757p | no, I didn't |
| 16:10.12 | c4757p | I was just interested in how it should be handled if they were |
| 16:10.17 | reportingsjr | if you are going to be pendantic then no, you didn't say dicks, but what you described was someone being a buncha dicks. |
| 16:10.30 | reportingsjr | yes, hence me saying you hypothetically said that. |
| 16:10.34 | c4757p | ... |
| 16:10.49 | c4757p | so...what's wrong with discussing how you would handle a bad situation? I never said the bad situation would happen |
| 16:11.20 | reportingsjr | mmm, you didn't act uncertain that it wouldn't happen that way. |
| 16:11.43 | *** join/#kicad antonioclj (~Thunderbi@186.210.151.107) |
| 16:11.51 | c4757p | I stated /multiple times/ that I was happy with them so far, that I thought they did a very nice thing for us, and that I was only discussing hypothetical future actions that I was never claiming would happen. |
| 16:12.08 | c4757p | I had to clarify that multiple times because people kept thinking I was saying they would actually do that. |
| 16:12.13 | reportingsjr | I don't think I'll be able to convince you otherwise which I why I said understand from the outside it looks like a dick move. If you want to ignore my advice, fine. |
| 16:13.02 | reportingsjr | I've been in this situation more times than I have cared to. My advice is to calm down and not talk hypothetically about it. You are welcome to ignore this. |
| 16:14.00 | reportingsjr | Just don't get upset when you keep doing it and you get called out for it again by Wayne. |
| 16:14.03 | c4757p | so...never talk hypothetically about possible bad situations. just let them happen, and don't have a plan for them beforehand. |
| 16:14.05 | c4757p | got it. |
| 16:14.16 | reportingsjr | Yes, it's called tact |
| 16:14.22 | reportingsjr | you and I both lack it |
| 16:14.28 | reportingsjr | It has bitten me many times |
| 16:15.18 | invultri_ | do people create single blocks for basic logic gates or use the enormous default gateS? |
| 16:15.23 | c4757p | so, in your view, being polite to people comes /before/ having a plan to avoid being fucked over by something otherwise out of your control. |
| 16:15.45 | reportingsjr | c4757p: that's a distorted view, but sure. |
| 16:15.56 | c4757p | no project that's operated publicly can ever discuss what would happen if someone did something wrong, because they'd have to have that discussion in the open, and that's /rude/. |
| 16:16.03 | reportingsjr | being polite goes a long way |
| 16:16.21 | c4757p | well, I'm sure you'd make a wonderful manager |
| 16:16.25 | c4757p | peronally I prefer function over form. |
| 16:16.43 | cyborg_ar | c4757p, in some fields, form _is_ function |
| 16:16.43 | reportingsjr | personal attacks are maybe not a good way to make friends |
| 16:16.52 | cyborg_ar | this is interfacing with fleshy stuff |
| 16:17.08 | c4757p | I'm not trying to make friends |
| 16:17.14 | reportingsjr | that's fine |
| 16:17.51 | reportingsjr | maybe this is a better way to put it: You're being like Dick |
| 16:17.54 | reportingsjr | :) |
| 16:18.03 | cyborg_ar | reportingsjr, nah |
| 16:18.16 | cyborg_ar | he's not threatening anyone with billing them for wasting his time |
| 16:18.20 | reportingsjr | heh |
| 16:18.28 | cyborg_ar | i always got a kick out of that |
| 16:18.37 | reportingsjr | suddenly c4757p will start commiting massive commits out of the blue |
| 16:18.43 | xzcvczx | meh tbh at least digikey was nice enough to pick up the domain to stop the danger of malware |
| 16:18.48 | reportingsjr | telling people to compile kicad instead of using stable versions |
| 16:19.29 | c4757p | if I'm being like Dick by pondering hypothetical situations that happen to involve other people, whatever. I'm not being a twat to people on the bug tracker, or exercising "authority" in the dark through a private channel, or any number of things he did that are /genuinely/ wrong. |
| 16:19.31 | cyborg_ar | and tell everyone to fuck off on feature requests, instead of just ignoring them |
| 16:20.05 | cyborg_ar | compating c4757p with dick is inflamatory |
| 16:20.10 | cyborg_ar | and not fair at all |
| 16:20.20 | cyborg_ar | pot kettle |
| 16:20.45 | reportingsjr | cyborg_ar: it's the "my opinion or FUCK YOU" attitude |
| 16:21.08 | cyborg_ar | that's a very tiny aspect, and not unique to dick |
| 16:21.16 | c4757p | I don't understand where I /ever/ said anything like that. I'm /totally/ okay with you having your own individual opinion. |
| 16:21.23 | cyborg_ar | and it could be construed that you're implying all the other things would apply too |
| 16:21.27 | c4757p | I never once implied it wasn't welcome, or that you weren't contributing something of value |
| 16:21.51 | c4757p | I respect your opinion, and am totally willing to consider it, I just have yet to hear an argument for it that convinces me. |
| 16:22.02 | reportingsjr | yes, as I said would likely happen |
| 16:22.05 | c4757p | you're the one accusing /me/ of being a dick, just because I don't agree with the arguments you've given in support of your opinion. |
| 16:22.32 | c4757p | I've even explained /why/ I don't agree with them |
| 16:22.32 | cyborg_ar | i think the only disagreement c4757p is having is that he believes having a free forum is more important than shutting up when there's something at stake, which is a valid genuine opinion |
| 16:22.39 | c4757p | I'm hardly just saying "my opinion or fuck you". |
| 16:23.01 | cyborg_ar | i disagree with that in this single particular case |
| 16:23.13 | cyborg_ar | and do think there should have been more noise in others |
| 16:23.18 | cyborg_ar | like the whole curl debable |
| 16:23.23 | cyborg_ar | debacle* |
| 16:23.41 | c4757p | my problem with /that/ debacle is the exact same problem, honestly |
| 16:24.03 | c4757p | we need a flatter organization structure, where everybody can voice their opinion, and nobody says "nuh uh, we're doing it MY WAY" unless they really /have/ to |
| 16:24.09 | cyborg_ar | yep, i agree with you, for stuff that is project matters, there should be fully open discussion |
| 16:24.13 | c4757p | (in this case, Dick...) |
| 16:24.26 | cyborg_ar | or at least let code speak |
| 16:25.01 | cyborg_ar | accept patches that meet code quality guidelines, even if you just disagree from a direction standpoint |
| 16:25.11 | cyborg_ar | because otherwise you end up turning away good contributions |
| 16:25.19 | c4757p | now, we /do/ need a way to resolve endless bikeshedding loops, and authority helps with /that/. but we have way too many instances of people solving valid problems, and their solution being rejected because someone with a little authority needs their spacebar heater |
| 16:25.35 | cyborg_ar | just because you're stuck in a hole and don't like the people actually doing the work |
| 16:25.45 | reportingsjr | points out that quite a few of the largest/most successful open source projects are run exactly opposite to that manner |
| 16:26.26 | xzcvczx | i am actually surprised that wayne nuked macros without any bikeshedding (not that i think macros are in any way a good idea) |
| 16:26.40 | cyborg_ar | the authority should be the code in those cases, whoever pledges to code and maintain the feature should have the largest part of the say on how it's done |
| 16:26.46 | cyborg_ar | rather than the peanut gallery |
| 16:26.52 | cyborg_ar | all within reason of course |
| 16:26.57 | *** join/#kicad berjan (~chatzilla@ip54538619.speed.planet.nl) |
| 16:27.12 | c4757p | cyborg_ar: Wayne has even stated he /agrees/ with that viewpoint |
| 16:27.28 | xzcvczx | c4 is a peanut does that make him the peanut gallery? |
| 16:27.30 | c4757p | he's told me multiple times that I have the final-ish say in how code I've written is to be implemented |
| 16:27.38 | c4757p | it's just... he doesn't always practice what he preaches >_> |
| 16:28.00 | reportingsjr | KiCad seems to be in an inbetween phase |
| 16:28.00 | cyborg_ar | yeah |
| 16:28.02 | c4757p | I am /not/ a peanut |
| 16:28.03 | cyborg_ar | and that is the issue |
| 16:28.06 | c4757p | otherwise I'd have eaten myself. |
| 16:28.12 | cyborg_ar | lol |
| 16:28.21 | c4757p | blows raspberry at xzcvczx |
| 16:28.29 | reportingsjr | It is big enough that one person can't/shouldn't maintain all of the code, but the leads haven't wanted to pass the reins on that |
| 16:28.43 | tom_fig | Well, despite all of these issues and debacles, KiCad still stands and works well in an actual production environment. |
| 16:29.09 | xzcvczx | c4757p is a turtle |
| 16:29.11 | reportingsjr | If KiCad continues to grow Wayne might need to micromanage a little less and give more say to individual maintainers |
| 16:29.51 | c4757p | he has even admitted that he needs to do /that/, but said he can't think of enough people he trusts enough to do that. |
| 16:29.53 | cyborg_ar | either way, long bikeshedding sessions shouldn't serve as a way to demoralize contributors, if they end up taking days/weeks, leadership should step in to just let the contributor do it their way instead of having to bring the pope to say how it should be done |
| 16:29.58 | c4757p | he's just way too picky |
| 16:30.20 | reportingsjr | that is a really tough thing to do |
| 16:30.20 | c4757p | he needs to be able to trust people to maintain sections even if he /doesn't/ agree with them |
| 16:30.56 | reportingsjr | I had to do exactly that recently and it was nerve-racking at first, but after a month or two I felt so much better/. |
| 16:31.14 | cyborg_ar | yeah, it's the growing pains |
| 16:31.17 | xzcvczx | would be pretty easy to allocate if shit were ipc rather thna single-process |
| 16:31.26 | c4757p | scratches head |
| 16:31.30 | c4757p | I... don't see how |
| 16:31.36 | cyborg_ar | it doesnt change anything |
| 16:31.50 | cyborg_ar | you can have the same shit tight coupling with ipc or not |
| 16:32.21 | xzcvczx | meh dickway does limit stuff a bit though |
| 16:32.25 | reportingsjr | I don't know if anyone besides Javier and JP could currently convince Wayne to step back a bit from the actual code. |
| 16:32.38 | xzcvczx | javier? |
| 16:33.43 | cyborg_ar | what needs to happen is to foster the feeling that you can pick up kicad, work a couple months on a feature, and then not spend half a year begging to get it merged |
| 16:33.47 | *** join/#kicad riq_ (~riq_@c-24-6-115-254.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 16:34.01 | *** join/#kicad stefan_slight (~Thunderbi@82.113.98.136) |
| 16:34.25 | cyborg_ar | that has improved a lot lately |
| 16:34.29 | cyborg_ar | kicad is almost there |
| 16:34.39 | c4757p | reportingsjr: wayne still gets email notifications for /every commit/ >_< |
| 16:35.00 | reportingsjr | yeah |
| 16:35.51 | c4757p | currently I check the commit log roughly daily, sooner if something interesting is going on, less if I don't hear about anything interesting at all for a while. if I were in his position I don't think that would change |
| 16:36.29 | cyborg_ar | i dont see anything wrong with that |
| 16:36.50 | reportingsjr | cyborg_ar: Wayne's trying to cover too many things at once |
| 16:36.58 | c4757p | yeah |
| 16:37.00 | cyborg_ar | he is |
| 16:37.07 | reportingsjr | which is leading to more important things, like patches, being skipped over |
| 16:37.14 | c4757p | I don't see anything /wrong/ with getting emails for commits, I guess, but it's definitely a sign that he's focusing a bit too much on them |
| 16:37.17 | reportingsjr | an overall architecture |
| 16:37.21 | c4757p | it's not like /anybody/ can commit things |
| 16:37.24 | cyborg_ar | the thing i see wrong is that he's both directing the problem and working on eeschema's innards on the side |
| 16:37.28 | c4757p | he shouldn't give commit access to people he can't trust a bit |
| 16:37.32 | reportingsjr | c4757p: that too |
| 16:37.35 | reportingsjr | err cyborg_ar |
| 16:37.37 | c4757p | and if he can trust them, he shouldn't have to personally verify /every commit/ |
| 16:39.07 | cyborg_ar | directing the project* |
| 16:39.18 | reportingsjr | If we want kicad to grow and be maintainable we need someone who will give more control over the code to individuals and someone who will focus on managing/directing the project as a whole |
| 16:39.49 | cyborg_ar | well it is a symptom of being short handed for a long while |
| 16:40.12 | cyborg_ar | manager is also flipping burgers, and doesn't trust anyone else with the grill |
| 16:40.25 | reportingsjr | yep, micromanaging |
| 16:40.29 | c4757p | well |
| 16:40.41 | c4757p | manager also flipping burgers is a symptom of being shorthanded |
| 16:40.47 | c4757p | manager not trusting anybody else to, not so much :p |
| 16:41.42 | c4757p | to be fair, the manager also flipping burgers is the norm on pretty much any open source project that isn't /huge/ |
| 16:42.33 | c4757p | I wonder at what point Linus stopped actually writing code. I mean, he wrote an entire VCS to manage the code just a few years ago :P |
| 16:42.37 | cyborg_ar | the thing is doing the transition, which is not easy |
| 16:43.13 | cyborg_ar | i dont think he ever stopped, he just doesn't filter every single line of code that goes in the kernel |
| 16:43.28 | cyborg_ar | if anything he's work in a pet project if he has time to spare |
| 16:44.03 | cyborg_ar | he'd* |
| 16:44.06 | cyborg_ar | i cant spell today |
| 16:44.08 | reportingsjr | c4757p: he said he hasn't really written any code in the kernel for 5-10 years |
| 16:44.12 | c4757p | he does still write code, but not much |
| 16:44.48 | cyborg_ar | one thing that helps is having people "own" parts of the codebase |
| 16:44.50 | c4757p | reportingsjr: a skim through the kernel git log shows approximately 2-3 commits a month that he claims come /directly/ from him (excluding merges and reverts) |
| 16:45.15 | reportingsjr | I don't know if he considers that "code" or just snippets |
| 16:45.21 | cyborg_ar | in blender there was an architecture document and each module had one or more maintainers associated with it |
| 16:45.22 | reportingsjr | this is from an interview I read a couple of months ago |
| 16:45.24 | c4757p | yeah |
| 16:45.42 | c4757p | he's still definitely doing a little bit, but it's mostly smallish, obviousish bugfixes |
| 16:46.22 | invultri_ | afaik he still oogles most of it and is the last barrier |
| 16:46.29 | c4757p | yeah |
| 16:46.38 | cyborg_ar | so if you had a patch for the game engine you submitted it to Campbell, or Ben, |
| 16:46.40 | invultri_ | just that there are 5 layers of filters before it ends at his station |
| 16:47.05 | cyborg_ar | Ton would only bother with stuff that touched the very core |
| 16:47.06 | c4757p | invultri_: to be clear, I'm not saying he /doesn't do much/ anymore, but rather that he doesn't write much kernel code of his own anymore |
| 16:47.13 | cyborg_ar | i think he was also in charge of SDNA |
| 16:47.18 | c4757p | he's still /highly/ involved with the project, but has manged to step back and mostly be a manager :) |
| 16:47.19 | cyborg_ar | along with Brecht |
| 16:47.55 | c4757p | but he still flips the occasional burger, because it's hard to resist that when liking the burger-flipping in the first place is why you started the project :) |
| 16:48.08 | cyborg_ar | this was many years ago, but yeah, Ton would not give it much second thought if campbel approved a game engine patch on his own, because he owned that module |
| 16:48.36 | *** join/#kicad tannewt (~textual@c-71-231-55-126.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 16:48.49 | cyborg_ar | there were also weekly meetings to talk about stuff that needed to be done, and what patches are in the pipeline, etc |
| 16:49.21 | cyborg_ar | it was a really healthy project, it probably still is, haven't been involved in over 5 years |
| 16:49.30 | *** join/#kicad awolf2 (c7b982ee@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.185.130.238) |
| 16:49.31 | tom_fig | Damn, got kicad footprint editor to crash....but the whole thing goes... |
| 16:49.41 | awolf2 | Are we just using the 4.0.3 assets for 4.0.4? |
| 16:50.00 | cyborg_ar | it was just 1 hour a week, all the people with commit access would meet on IRC to check on everything, and other devs and users could join in if they kept it civil |
| 16:52.19 | cyborg_ar | it did go a long way on keeping everyone in sync on what was going on and what needed to be done, and it was the perfect opportunity to talk about patches and branches being worked on, also to round up the release goals and decide when to go to the next phase |
| 16:53.35 | cyborg_ar | the big thing blender had that kicad doesn't was the blender institute, Ton and a few others are paid full time to work on blender |
| 16:54.25 | *** join/#kicad Plugh (~kcozens@CPE68b6fc4e50b3-CM68b6fc4e50b0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 16:56.13 | cyborg_ar | https://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:Doc/Process/Module_Owners/List |
| 16:57.44 | cyborg_ar | lol arrow sent me a 15% off coupon |
| 16:59.11 | tom_fig | Sweet |
| 16:59.19 | tom_fig | Do they have anything in stock? :| |
| 16:59.49 | cyborg_ar | HAHAHHA |
| 17:00.00 | c4757p | o_O |
| 17:01.39 | xzcvczx | last time i checked icon files were generated into build not into source tree anyways :S |
| 17:02.24 | *** part/#kicad talsit (foobar@gromit.mixdown.ca) |
| 17:09.48 | invultri_ | cyborg_ar: https://www.arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardMicro is this the board you refered to yesterday ? |
| 17:11.02 | *** join/#kicad Haohmaru (~Haohmaru@176-12-58-185.pon.spectrumnet.bg) |
| 17:18.36 | *** join/#kicad pointhi_ (~pointhi@88.116.72.14) |
| 17:20.01 | GyrosGeier | dafuq |
| 17:20.07 | GyrosGeier | http://ci.kicad-pcb.org/job/windows-kicad-msys2-nightlies/723/console |
| 17:20.15 | GyrosGeier | I've already solved this one once |
| 17:21.18 | *** join/#kicad Haohmaru (~Haohmaru@176-12-58-185.pon.spectrumnet.bg) |
| 17:29.13 | cyborg_ar | invultri_, yes |
| 17:29.28 | *** join/#kicad mgottschlag (~quassel@reactos/tester/phoenix64) |
| 17:29.58 | invultri_ | ok |
| 17:30.14 | cyborg_ar | or the "pro micro" by sparkfun |
| 17:30.27 | cyborg_ar | the chinese clones of course |
| 17:30.49 | *** join/#kicad oofus (~quassel@oofus1-adsl.demon.co.uk) |
| 17:31.52 | *** join/#kicad Haohmaru (~Haohmaru@176-12-58-185.pon.spectrumnet.bg) |
| 17:32.16 | cyborg_ar | hm i'm having this strange bug |
| 17:32.28 | cyborg_ar | the projectname.pro file shows up twice |
| 17:33.23 | cyborg_ar | oooh wait it doesnt |
| 17:33.28 | cyborg_ar | it's an autosave |
| 17:42.30 | *** join/#kicad tannewt (~textual@c-71-231-55-126.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 17:43.46 | *** join/#kicad bvernoux (~Ben@chl26-1-88-183-104-56.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 17:47.03 | *** join/#kicad nitrousnrg (~quassel@190-103-222-12.cepanet.com.ar) |
| 17:47.46 | *** join/#kicad riq_ (~riq_@c-24-6-115-254.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 17:50.30 | *** join/#kicad alphaferret (~user@54034F08.catv.pool.telekom.hu) |
| 17:51.08 | cyborg_ar | 25% of the files are autogenerated, dont you dare reduce that number |
| 17:51.14 | alphaferret | is there anything special to making a non-ground bottom layer zone |
| 17:51.30 | cyborg_ar | alphaferret, no, just assign the right net to the zone |
| 17:51.40 | cyborg_ar | and dont let it touch anything grounded |
| 17:52.37 | kakimir | is there like way to.. if I draw a regulator to schematic.. to save that regulator circuit and just lasso/select that circuit and save it |
| 17:52.56 | kakimir | then just plant it in projects like nothing |
| 17:53.45 | cyborg_ar | unfortunately no |
| 17:53.54 | alphaferret | well sort of though |
| 17:53.55 | cyborg_ar | you can only import a whole schematic sheet |
| 17:54.15 | cyborg_ar | and it messes up your labels |
| 17:54.29 | cyborg_ar | only reliable way for now is text editor sadly |
| 17:54.34 | kakimir | does it? |
| 17:54.57 | kakimir | if my labels are ASDASD045837? |
| 17:55.08 | kakimir | what messes what? |
| 18:01.00 | *** join/#kicad Haohmaru (~Haohmaru@176-12-58-185.pon.spectrumnet.bg) |
| 18:02.08 | alphaferret | do you first have to define a keepout area on the bottom ground if that has been defined already? |
| 18:03.03 | cyborg_ar | huh? |
| 18:03.56 | cyborg_ar | zones with a higher "priority level" will push away lower priority ones |
| 18:05.20 | *** join/#kicad mgottschlag (~quassel@reactos/tester/phoenix64) |
| 18:06.58 | alphaferret | for some reason it didn't let me create a bottom non ground zone, probably because it was interfering with ground |
| 18:12.29 | *** join/#kicad Haohmaru (~Haohmaru@176-12-58-185.pon.spectrumnet.bg) |
| 18:16.32 | *** join/#kicad m_w (~Michael@ip68-14-170-91.ok.ok.cox.net) |
| 18:19.21 | cyborg_ar | how exactly didn't it let you? |
| 18:22.56 | *** join/#kicad erichvk_ (~esh@ppp121-45-31-89.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net) |
| 18:24.08 | alphaferret | i pressed b and nothing happened, no prob i just did them all on top layer |
| 18:24.53 | alphaferret | so all i have to do is increment priority? |
| 18:25.51 | cyborg_ar | yes |
| 18:25.56 | cyborg_ar | of the smaller zone |
| 18:27.01 | alphaferret | does thermal relief actually in real life have benefits |
| 18:29.46 | cyborg_ar | yes |
| 18:29.57 | cyborg_ar | avoids tombstoning of resistors |
| 18:30.18 | cyborg_ar | and helps solder through hole components without having to heat up the whole plane |
| 18:30.40 | cyborg_ar | s/resistors/small chip components/ |
| 18:31.04 | *** join/#kicad Haohmaru (~Haohmaru@176-12-58-185.pon.spectrumnet.bg) |
| 18:38.15 | GyrosGeier | I just did a 440x600mm board with no thermal relief |
| 18:38.23 | GyrosGeier | you really want that |
| 18:38.36 | cyborg_ar | haha |
| 18:38.59 | cyborg_ar | i made a much smaller board without thermals on some resistors and it was hell to get them soldered |
| 18:39.05 | *** join/#kicad gzamboni (~gzamboni@gzamboni.zael.fr) |
| 18:39.58 | alphaferret | i have one board that's 18x18mm. if i ever get into oven baking it will be very hard to see when the paste reflows right? |
| 18:40.53 | cyborg_ar | you shouldnt need to see it |
| 18:41.07 | cyborg_ar | as long as the oven follows the profile well it should solder fine |
| 18:41.27 | cyborg_ar | for such tiny boards i've had success using hot plates |
| 18:41.30 | *** join/#kicad Haohmaru (~Haohmaru@176-12-58-185.pon.spectrumnet.bg) |
| 18:42.19 | alphaferret | i'm not doing profiles, it will be a 50$ toaster or convection |
| 18:42.58 | alphaferret | hot plate with a teflon pan on top? |
| 18:43.24 | GyrosGeier | profiles are worth it |
| 18:43.39 | alphaferret | i'm not going to get a pid or an expensive oven |
| 18:43.45 | GyrosGeier | you need the plateau for the solder paste to activate and boil off |
| 18:44.16 | GyrosGeier | when I go full power from the start, the solder is bubbling a bit still as it settles |
| 18:44.26 | alphaferret | preheat |
| 18:45.07 | alphaferret | planning on having china do my small boards with no lead pads and i'll do the easier ones |
| 18:45.37 | alphaferret | unless i fuck up a bunch of protos and pay for too many iterations of non-working board then i need to rethink |
| 18:47.19 | *** join/#kicad bgamari (~bgamari@c-71-235-8-183.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) |
| 18:50.40 | *** join/#kicad firebird__ (~firebird@125.16.18.198) |
| 18:52.38 | *** join/#kicad Sync (~foobar@sync-hv.de) |
| 18:53.05 | *** join/#kicad crazy_imp (~mj@unaffiliated/crazy-imp/x-8704303) |
| 18:53.19 | *** join/#kicad dunz0r (~dunz0r@is.a.hax0r.se) |
| 18:53.22 | *** join/#kicad smoores (~smoores@c-67-188-210-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 18:55.00 | *** join/#kicad jhelwig (~jhelwig@50-39-183-7.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net) |
| 18:55.00 | *** join/#kicad jhelwig (~jhelwig@puppetlabs/development/jhelwig) |
| 18:56.27 | *** join/#kicad ricardocrudo (~ricardocr@ip5f5bf4e2.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 18:56.45 | *** join/#kicad thardin (~thardin@h-39-109.a258.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 18:56.50 | *** join/#kicad zapb_ (~zapb@static.61.224.47.78.clients.your-server.de) |
| 19:00.27 | *** join/#kicad newbie16 (~firewalke@ppp-94-67-137-86.home.otenet.gr) |
| 19:01.51 | *** join/#kicad crakrjak (~merc@unaffiliated/crakrjak) |
| 19:05.11 | *** join/#kicad ayjay (~ajp_@24-151-28-56.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) |
| 19:06.33 | *** join/#kicad KarlZeilhofer (~Thunderbi@88-117-82-93.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 19:07.13 | *** join/#kicad antonioclj (~Thunderbi@186.210.151.107) |
| 19:07.45 | *** join/#kicad berjan (~chatzilla@ip54538619.speed.planet.nl) |
| 19:11.12 | *** join/#kicad Haohmaru (~Haohmaru@176-12-58-185.pon.spectrumnet.bg) |
| 19:18.25 | *** join/#kicad tannewt (~textual@c-71-231-55-126.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 19:21.28 | *** join/#kicad Haohmaru (~Haohmaru@176-12-58-185.pon.spectrumnet.bg) |
| 19:23.02 | *** join/#kicad ridesa7 (~stambaugh@rrcs-98-101-140-98.midsouth.biz.rr.com) |
| 19:31.46 | *** join/#kicad Haohmaru (~Haohmaru@176-12-58-185.pon.spectrumnet.bg) |
| 19:32.14 | *** join/#kicad mgottschlag (~quassel@reactos/tester/phoenix64) |
| 19:34.02 | *** join/#kicad ridesa8 (~Thunderbi@rrcs-98-101-140-98.midsouth.biz.rr.com) |
| 19:36.06 | decimad | I'm doing comments now... does doxygen have some syntax for pre/postconditions? |
| 19:37.21 | c4757p | @pre @post |
| 19:38.17 | decimad | that's too easy! |
| 19:40.51 | *** join/#kicad mgottschlag (~quassel@reactos/tester/phoenix64) |
| 19:41.42 | xzcvczx | lol, yeah typically doxygen does shit so badly that you can't expect something simple |
| 19:42.37 | *** join/#kicad Haohmaru (~Haohmaru@176-12-58-185.pon.spectrumnet.bg) |
| 19:49.45 | *** part/#kicad stambaughw (62658c62@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.101.140.98) |
| 19:50.19 | GyrosGeier | nickoe, it seems msys/mingw got changed |
| 19:50.32 | GyrosGeier | and selecting 32/64 bit mode is different now |
| 20:00.14 | kakimir | was there some character to activate underline? |
| 20:00.27 | kakimir | like ~ does line above |
| 20:10.43 | *** part/#kicad m_w (~Michael@ip68-14-170-91.ok.ok.cox.net) |
| 20:11.16 | *** join/#kicad Haohmaru (~Haohmaru@176-12-58-185.pon.spectrumnet.bg) |
| 20:13.31 | decimad | haha, I absolutely need to push this quickly, an awesome wall of capslocks incoming :D |
| 20:14.08 | GyrosGeier | how did that ever work? |
| 20:14.28 | decimad | work? |
| 20:14.39 | GyrosGeier | KiCad-Winbuilder |
| 20:15.16 | decimad | I leave the question for the building pros ;) |
| 20:17.05 | decimad | I think types need to be uppercase so that the TMP-guys stay away ;) |
| 20:20.47 | *** join/#kicad phinxy (~tehhhd@unaffiliated/phinxy) |
| 20:21.41 | *** join/#kicad Haohmaru (~Haohmaru@176-12-58-185.pon.spectrumnet.bg) |
| 20:27.46 | niki | c4757p: huh ? |
| 20:27.55 | c4757p | what? |
| 20:28.12 | niki | [17:55:53] * c4757p sighs at niki |
| 20:28.19 | c4757p | oh |
| 20:28.24 | c4757p | about your patch being reverted |
| 20:28.25 | niki | reading backlog ;-) |
| 20:29.02 | niki | yeah saw it earlier, when I did a pull |
| 20:30.36 | cyborg_ar | decimad, documenting the code? |
| 20:32.05 | *** join/#kicad Haohmaru (~Haohmaru@176-12-58-185.pon.spectrumnet.bg) |
| 20:32.12 | decimad | cyborg_ar yeah? |
| 20:32.35 | cyborg_ar | nice! |
| 20:32.53 | decimad | no, I'm not documenting existing code ;) |
| 20:33.14 | cyborg_ar | ah |
| 20:34.04 | *** join/#kicad ferdna (~ferdna@cpe-69-23-129-73.elp.res.rr.com) |
| 20:48.26 | *** join/#kicad Murr (~Murr@14.128.169.216.client.dyn.strong-sf87.as22781.net) |
| 20:49.37 | decimad | although I must really see, on most code I don't need this documentation and on code I do need it and there is some, it does not help ;) |
| 20:50.26 | decimad | there is some truth to "good code does not net comments"... not as absolute, but still |
| 20:50.46 | decimad | what would be important is large overview |
| 20:51.41 | decimad | maybe a small tour through the codebase would be nice |
| 21:04.17 | niki | hmm... |
| 21:04.23 | nickoe | GyrosGeier: Whats up with msys2 and? |
| 21:05.20 | niki | Has libdxf in the source tree been modified compared to libdxf upstream ? |
| 21:05.52 | niki | Because, it's some releases, and bug fixes behind upstream |
| 21:05.56 | nickoe | niki: I don't think so |
| 21:06.18 | nickoe | niki: But are there problems with it as is now? |
| 21:07.21 | GyrosGeier | nickoe, I've set up a second msys2 box |
| 21:07.26 | GyrosGeier | which fails to build Kicad |
| 21:07.55 | nickoe | it is offline now? |
| 21:07.58 | nickoe | can I have a look at it? |
| 21:07.59 | niki | well, it's a upstream lib that is bundled, for one, and upstream, i think, supports newer versions of dxf i think, haven't look closely at it yet |
| 21:08.27 | GyrosGeier | because the wx library from mingw32 thinks wxIntPtr is 64 bit wide |
| 21:09.18 | nickoe | GyrosGeier: hmm, dunno, you might need to ask the msys2 people. They are to be found in #msys2@OFTC |
| 21:09.39 | nickoe | but I don't know, how do you select mode? |
| 21:09.42 | nickoe | now |
| 21:09.46 | niki | And has any potential fixes been pushed upstram, and is there any policy in KiCAD to send fixes upstream ? |
| 21:10.38 | nickoe | niki: it looks like only some coverity warnings have been addressedn in lib_dxgf |
| 21:10.45 | nickoe | lib_dxf |
| 21:11.06 | niki | okay, have they been sent upstream ? |
| 21:11.30 | *** join/#kicad Haohmaru (~Haohmaru@176-12-58-185.pon.spectrumnet.bg) |
| 21:11.52 | nickoe | I don't know, I suspect not |
| 21:12.10 | nickoe | niki: you can compare yourself.. https://github.com/KiCad/kicad-source-mirror/commit/cc2fe47c959886bf0919b9b0c6d17fe293f99516 |
| 21:12.26 | nickoe | GyrosGeier: How do you do it now? |
| 21:12.47 | nickoe | did you start a MSYS2, MINGW32 or MINGW64 shell? |
| 21:14.35 | *** join/#kicad newbie67 (8d2cc6b7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.141.44.198.183) |
| 21:14.56 | newbie67 | hi there |
| 21:15.24 | nickoe | newbie67: whats up? |
| 21:16.32 | newbie67 | need some suggestions. new user so looking for some tips... |
| 21:19.55 | GyrosGeier | nickoe, the old box still works |
| 21:20.06 | GyrosGeier | nut upgrading might break it |
| 21:20.10 | nickoe | but can I play with the new one? |
| 21:20.30 | GyrosGeier | yes |
| 21:21.02 | GyrosGeier | its network connection is wonky though |
| 21:21.16 | GyrosGeier | because the VPN is RAS |
| 21:21.25 | *** join/#kicad oofus (~quassel@oofus1-adsl.demon.co.uk) |
| 21:21.41 | GyrosGeier | I haven't found out how to make it dial up automatically |
| 21:26.39 | *** join/#kicad paco73 (527a0595@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.122.5.149) |
| 21:32.11 | *** join/#kicad CarlPoirier (~CarlPoiri@modemcable019.249-59-74.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 21:38.12 | *** join/#kicad AndyBotwin (~Gustavo@unaffiliated/andybotwin) |
| 21:41.29 | *** join/#kicad Haohmaru (~Haohmaru@176-12-58-185.pon.spectrumnet.bg) |
| 21:44.07 | *** join/#kicad Wetmelon (~wetmelon@host-73-169.ncasgro.asheville.nc.us.clients.pavlovmedia.com) |
| 21:44.48 | *** join/#kicad NoGodDamnIdea (~King@31.14.109.208) |
| 21:44.48 | *** join/#kicad NoGodDamnIdea (~King@unaffiliated/nogoddamnidea) |
| 21:51.57 | *** join/#kicad Haohmaru (~Haohmaru@176-12-58-185.pon.spectrumnet.bg) |
| 22:01.38 | *** join/#kicad Plugh (~kcozens@CPE68b6fc4e50b3-CM68b6fc4e50b0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 22:02.30 | *** join/#kicad Haohmaru (~Haohmaru@176-12-58-185.pon.spectrumnet.bg) |
| 22:06.45 | *** join/#kicad nitrousnrg (~quassel@190-103-222-12.cepanet.com.ar) |
| 22:07.37 | *** join/#kicad tannewt (~textual@c-71-231-55-126.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 22:13.02 | *** join/#kicad Haohmaru (~Haohmaru@176-12-58-185.pon.spectrumnet.bg) |
| 22:22.58 | *** join/#kicad ridesa7 (~Thunderbi@pool-173-71-149-152.nrflva.fios.verizon.net) |
| 22:23.36 | *** join/#kicad Ephexis (~IRC@unaffiliated/ephexis) |
| 22:25.32 | *** join/#kicad berjan (~chatzilla@ip54538619.speed.planet.nl) |
| 22:31.45 | *** join/#kicad Haohmaru (~Haohmaru@176-12-58-185.pon.spectrumnet.bg) |
| 22:42.12 | *** join/#kicad Haohmaru (~Haohmaru@176-12-58-185.pon.spectrumnet.bg) |
| 22:47.56 | xzcvczx | lol @ all the macbooks in the kim.com courtroom |
| 22:50.23 | cyborg_ar | lol what a character |
| 22:50.28 | cyborg_ar | are all kiwis like that? |
| 22:50.45 | xzcvczx | well kim.com is techniclally german |
| 22:51.00 | cyborg_ar | true |
| 22:52.38 | *** join/#kicad Haohmaru (~Haohmaru@176-12-58-185.pon.spectrumnet.bg) |
| 22:52.42 | xzcvczx | i think one of the lawyers in the courtroom live in the same building as me |
| 22:53.14 | decimad | it's good that he left germany though ;) |
| 22:53.40 | decimad | is that court on air currently? |
| 22:54.13 | xzcvczx | yes |
| 22:54.15 | xzcvczx | well on youtube |
| 22:54.22 | xzcvczx | 20min delayed |
| 22:55.50 | decimad | great audio! |
| 22:56.06 | xzcvczx | lol yeah, my audios maxed out and its still pretty hard to hear |
| 22:56.24 | xzcvczx | its a pity they weren't able to wire the courtroom for sound, or at least hook into the existing audio system |
| 22:56.41 | decimad | could have organized a pointing mirco |
| 22:56.44 | decimad | micro |
| 22:56.54 | decimad | a directed? what's the term in english |
| 22:57.02 | xzcvczx | nah they are still affected by stuff in the way |
| 22:57.30 | xzcvczx | look at all the fucking mics already there...... more than enough |
| 22:58.06 | xzcvczx | there must be a hard-of-hearing loop somewhere htey could hook into surely |
| 22:58.18 | xzcvczx | this sounds like a cam recording of a movie :P |
| 22:59.28 | decimad | to me it sounds exactly as if the bitrate for audio were too low... |
| 23:00.12 | xzcvczx | just wait for someone in the audience to cough :P |
| 23:00.25 | *** join/#kicad bugzc (~1@unaffiliated/bugzc) |
| 23:00.30 | xzcvczx | but yeah i don't know what sort of internet connection they will have so it might be that at fault |
| 23:01.04 | decimad | lol |
| 23:01.08 | xzcvczx | hahaha they are listening to me |
| 23:05.06 | mroszko | oO |
| 23:05.26 | *** join/#kicad tom_fig (602556db@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.37.86.219) |
| 23:06.00 | decimad | she was quick! |
| 23:06.00 | c4757p | Oo oO Oo |
| 23:06.36 | mroszko | im sad that america has declared war on tall people |
| 23:06.48 | c4757p | ... |
| 23:07.00 | mroszko | what |
| 23:07.02 | mroszko | you havent noticed |
| 23:07.08 | mroszko | they made ikea recall the tall dressers |
| 23:07.12 | mroszko | because idiots got darwined |
| 23:07.18 | c4757p | well, it's not something I'd notice, being 5'6, but... |
| 23:07.29 | mroszko | and you can never find 36" sleeves or longer easily in stores |
| 23:08.06 | mroszko | and most chairs are made for small people |
| 23:08.10 | mroszko | so uncomfortable being tall |
| 23:08.11 | mroszko | ((( |
| 23:08.20 | xzcvczx | c4757p: you wouldn't reach 5'6" with 6" soles |
| 23:08.24 | decimad | were those the things which fell over when you pulled to many drawers or what? |
| 23:08.29 | decimad | too |
| 23:08.33 | mroszko | if you pulled out the drawers |
| 23:08.40 | c4757p | blows raspberry at xzcvczx |
| 23:08.40 | mroszko | and then proceeded to jump on the drawer |
| 23:08.47 | mroszko | you know, physics |
| 23:08.48 | decimad | lol |
| 23:09.11 | gordonjcp | if you pulled out all the drawers and they had heavy things in, they'd fall over unless you fitted the check strap to the back and screwed it to a wall |
| 23:09.14 | gordonjcp | like you're supposed to |
| 23:09.28 | decimad | who could have known! |
| 23:09.30 | xzcvczx | only in earthquake prone areas |
| 23:09.31 | gordonjcp | like with any kind of drawers that are taller than they are deep, and have heavy things in |
| 23:09.33 | mroszko | i mean its a dresser |
| 23:09.38 | mroszko | i have all the drawers full on my Malm |
| 23:09.43 | mroszko | and it wont tip with all the drawers out |
| 23:09.48 | gordonjcp | mine will |
| 23:09.49 | mroszko | maybe because i dont keep lead bars in it |
| 23:09.54 | gordonjcp | but my floors are very uneven |
| 23:09.56 | c4757p | ...wait |
| 23:10.01 | c4757p | where /do/ you keep your lead bars? |
| 23:10.03 | gordonjcp | and the walls aren't very straight |
| 23:10.03 | c4757p | looks confused |
| 23:10.08 | xzcvczx | mroszko: those will just break through the floor of the drawer |
| 23:10.09 | mroszko | outside |
| 23:10.10 | decimad | I had to laugh when I realized there were actually technical provisions that keep you from opening too many drawers |
| 23:10.12 | mroszko | buried under the tree |
| 23:10.22 | mroszko | gotta keep it hidden for when lead prices eventually jump up! |
| 23:10.27 | gordonjcp | everything at my house is at an odd angle out of plumb |
| 23:10.32 | gordonjcp | it's because I live in a listed building |
| 23:10.35 | gordonjcp | :-D |
| 23:10.39 | mroszko | the leaning tower of piza? |
| 23:10.47 | mroszko | hows the rent? |
| 23:10.48 | c4757p | yeah, I don't have a single floor that's properly flat |
| 23:11.14 | gordonjcp | mroszko: heh |
| 23:11.39 | gordonjcp | mroszko: in all seriousness, I pay less per month than a mate of mine who's just moved to the outskirts of London pays per week |
| 23:11.48 | *** join/#kicad Haohmaru (~Haohmaru@176-12-58-185.pon.spectrumnet.bg) |
| 23:11.51 | xzcvczx | mroszko: meh just get lead posioning so when you pass we can steal all your lead |
| 23:12.16 | gordonjcp | and I've got a two bedroom house with about a quarter acre of garden and four parking spaces, while he has a bedroom with en-suite bathroom, shared kitchen and living room |
| 23:12.32 | c4757p | eigh |
| 23:12.33 | c4757p | eugh |
| 23:12.33 | gordonjcp | and even better, I'm absolutely nowhere fucking *near* London |
| 23:12.37 | c4757p | hahah |
| 23:17.47 | xzcvczx | ewwwww extradition law being based on the requesting state laws rather than the requested state laws |
| 23:17.50 | xzcvczx | thats just wrong |
| 23:17.59 | xzcvczx | as if you want someone extradited just make up a law and voila |
| 23:19.40 | xzcvczx | gha they need more cameras |
| 23:23.04 | *** join/#kicad Haohmaru (~Haohmaru@176-12-58-185.pon.spectrumnet.bg) |
| 23:25.27 | cyborg_ar | xzcvczx, how does that work constitutionally though |
| 23:27.56 | *** join/#kicad CarlPoirier (~CarlPoiri@modemcable019.249-59-74.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 23:28.27 | *** join/#kicad drawkula (~username@p4FC11D8E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:41.58 | xzcvczx | cyborg_ar: well thats the stupid thing..... it depends on the requesting states constitution |
| 23:42.58 | xzcvczx | so if you have an ex-treaty with them then if the devolve into a dictatorship without the treaty being revoked they can create a law and voila they can try and request someone who badmouthed them in another country |
| 23:44.52 | xzcvczx | if there is an inequality of arms then use your legs and kick the shit outta them dammit |
| 23:47.27 | cyborg_ar | an international treaty cannot trample a state's constitution |
| 23:47.42 | cyborg_ar | in theory at least |
| 23:48.02 | c4757p | in theory, theory and practice are the same |
| 23:48.09 | cyborg_ar | in any case extraditions are diplomatic events |
| 23:48.49 | cyborg_ar | so how they are treated depends on how much the requested state wants to kiss the requesting state's ass |
| 23:49.11 | xzcvczx | cyborg_ar: but they are diplomatic underneath a legal framework |
| 23:49.25 | xzcvczx | kiss ass/bend over and take it |
| 23:49.52 | cyborg_ar | xzcvczx, democracies are notorious for using the constitutional framework as toilet paper, only to pay too little too late when the courts catch up with them |
| 23:50.35 | xzcvczx | its bullshit anyways..... this case should have never been bought yet they will be extradited and convicted when all avenues of appeal are said and done, and i wonder whether it will even go to the privy council |
| 23:51.28 | xzcvczx | although the privy council is pretty much dead these days |
| 23:51.41 | xzcvczx | as we try and pretend to assert out independence |
| 23:51.59 | *** join/#kicad Haohmaru (~Haohmaru@176-12-58-185.pon.spectrumnet.bg) |
| 23:56.22 | *** join/#kicad superlou (~superlou@ool-457c146e.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 23:59.58 | *** join/#kicad rqou (~rqou@totally.a.legitimate.domain.not.malware.xn--xi7a.xn--j6w193g) |
