| 00:00.05 | jadrian | aseigo: ah ok! go on |
| 00:00.07 | aseigo | jadrian: dropping a compressed file where? |
| 00:00.23 | *** join/#kde Unbeliever (~Unbelieve@18.19.223.82.arsystel.com) |
| 00:00.57 | jadrian | aseigo: anywhere. Say you drag and drop a tgz, besides copy, move, link, you'd have extract here |
| 00:01.50 | jadrian | aseigo: I thought about it because usually usually end up creating a link, then chose extract here, then delete the link |
| 00:01.59 | Dhraakellian | so how would one go about getting true transparency in KDE? |
| 00:02.16 | aseigo | jadrian: yeah, that would make sense... |
| 00:03.33 | seaSceaDa | n8 cu all... |
| 00:03.40 | jadrian | bye seaSceaDa |
| 00:03.47 | seaSceaDa | n8n8 |
| 00:07.10 | zr | Dhraakellian: yes |
| 00:07.36 | *** part/#kde benjamindees (~benjamind@adsl-65-64-51-159.dsl.tulsok.swbell.net) |
| 00:07.46 | zr | Dhraakellian: there's a patch for xorg that gives true trasparency and sox-like shadows |
| 00:07.56 | zr | *OS-x |
| 00:08.21 | Dhraakellian | heh |
| 00:08.25 | Dhraakellian | that I kew |
| 00:08.27 | Dhraakellian | knew |
| 00:08.57 | Dhraakellian | I'm just wondering how difficult it is to get true transparency in KDE |
| 00:09.11 | Dhraakellian | if it's just a matter of getting xorg CVS... |
| 00:09.50 | zr | it is |
| 00:10.13 | Dhraakellian | and then? |
| 00:10.19 | *** part/#kde willix (~willix@i-194-106-44-32.freedom2surf.net) |
| 00:10.26 | Dhraakellian | how does one take advantage of it? |
| 00:10.48 | zr | http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=204593 |
| 00:12.12 | jadrian | I'm not so sure about benifits of transparency though |
| 00:12.18 | jadrian | what can you effectivly use it for? |
| 00:12.36 | cibe | looking good? |
| 00:12.48 | jadrian | maybe some panels like kicker, to minimize what they hide |
| 00:12.59 | jadrian | cibe: but where would you use it? |
| 00:13.06 | jadrian | cibe: kicker, what else? |
| 00:13.17 | cibe | konsole? |
| 00:13.31 | jadrian | do you find it usable? |
| 00:13.36 | cibe | yes |
| 00:13.40 | MaNI | if you set |
| 00:13.44 | MaNI | it to not be too transparent |
| 00:13.48 | MaNI | its usable and looks nice |
| 00:14.11 | *** join/#kde NamShub (~mathieu@dsl-147-78.aei.ca) |
| 00:14.14 | marcusU | Tranparency is one of those visual effects that looks cute at first but just gets in the way for real use. |
| 00:14.18 | jadrian | I don't know... |
| 00:14.29 | jadrian | I've tried it with fake transparency |
| 00:14.46 | jadrian | and it never looked that good even though it's not completely transparent |
| 00:14.49 | *** join/#kde onkko (~onkko@syella.venigo.fr) |
| 00:14.51 | onkko | hi |
| 00:15.04 | jadrian | but maybe a better implementation will do the trick |
| 00:15.10 | jadrian | same for transparent menus |
| 00:15.11 | onkko | when i run k3b in a KOnsole i have got this errors, kdecore (KIconLoader): WARNING: Icon directory /usr/share/icons/hicolor/ group 48x48/stock/table not valid. |
| 00:15.16 | Dhraakellian | I have xchat partially transparent |
| 00:15.25 | Dhraakellian | and I think I have konsole transparent |
| 00:15.27 | *** join/#kde syd (~chatzilla@ca-crlsca-cuda1-c7b-85.crlsca.adelphia.net) |
| 00:15.42 | onkko | can you help me please? |
| 00:16.47 | jadrian | onkko: seems like it's trying to fetch some icons that do not exist |
| 00:17.04 | jadrian | onkko: if that's it, I wouldn't worry to much if it works ok |
| 00:17.12 | *** join/#kde bolivar (~bolivar@host-187-163-220-24.midco.net) |
| 00:17.25 | zr | Dhraakellian: are you on gentoo? |
| 00:17.33 | onkko | jadrian: i have downloaded some icons theme, but i have remove this, and now, when i download some applications, i have this errors |
| 00:17.51 | jadrian | onkko: oh you removed hicolor? |
| 00:18.24 | jadrian | maybe you removed the default icon theme? |
| 00:18.28 | *** join/#kde boga (~boga@CPE000ae64b2a0e-CM00e06f240dd8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 00:18.35 | onkko | no |
| 00:18.41 | onkko | when i go to the control center |
| 00:18.48 | NamShub | onkko: debian? its a known problem |
| 00:18.54 | jadrian | brb |
| 00:19.01 | onkko | NamShub: yes, debian sarge |
| 00:19.02 | Dhraakellian | zr: yeah |
| 00:19.17 | NamShub | onkko: the only workaround I found is to disable the error message heh |
| 00:19.28 | Dhraakellian | a friend already showed me how to get cvs ebuilds of things |
| 00:19.32 | Dhraakellian | I haven't yet set it up |
| 00:19.36 | onkko | NamShub: how you do this please |
| 00:20.07 | NamShub | onkko: run kdebugdialog |
| 00:20.45 | onkko | yes NamShub |
| 00:21.02 | NamShub | in expert mode |
| 00:21.39 | onkko | kiCconLoader NamShub ? |
| 00:21.41 | NamShub | kdebugdialog --fullmode |
| 00:22.05 | onkko | ok NamShub |
| 00:22.16 | NamShub | 264: Warning: output to: NONE |
| 00:23.04 | onkko | hey |
| 00:23.06 | onkko | it is right |
| 00:23.10 | onkko | thans you NamShub =) |
| 00:23.13 | onkko | thank |
| 00:23.29 | onkko | but i have got two errors when i run k3b |
| 00:23.32 | onkko | k3b: WARNING: KGenericFactory: instance requested but no instance name passed to the constructor! |
| 00:23.32 | onkko | k3b: ERROR: (K3bSongManager) Can't open file /home/onkko/.kde/share/apps/k3b/songlist.xml |
| 00:31.18 | *** join/#kde sauber (~ask@Gf558.g.pppool.de) |
| 00:31.24 | sauber | hi |
| 00:31.35 | zr | Dhraakellian: is it safe to delete that aformentioned kde3.2 directory? |
| 00:31.37 | sauber | i have this strange behaviour using align to grid on kde 3.3 |
| 00:31.56 | sauber | space between icons is much larger then in the last versions |
| 00:32.08 | *** join/#kde KonvIRC (nobody@24-56-163-92.nm.warpdriveonline.com) |
| 00:32.14 | Dhraakellian | zr: there may be better ways to do it, but what I did was 'emerge -pv prune' |
| 00:32.20 | sauber | is there a way to configure the spacing or granulary of the grid? |
| 00:32.43 | *** join/#kde keanne (~riken@mnc02.mei.co.jp) |
| 00:32.51 | Dhraakellian | then copied the packagenames that had to do with KDE into the appropriate spot in `emerge -av prune <kde package names>` |
| 00:33.15 | Dhraakellian | I do recall the emerge man page advocating caution when using prune |
| 00:33.22 | *** join/#kde hps (~hps@L0856P09.dipool.highway.telekom.at) |
| 00:33.53 | zr | Dhraakellian: holy sh!t, it's UNMERGING WORLD! HELP! |
| 00:34.01 | Dhraakellian | ^C |
| 00:34.06 | Dhraakellian | ^C! |
| 00:34.13 | zr | IT DOENST WORK OMG |
| 00:34.18 | Dhraakellian | ack |
| 00:34.25 | zr | no no NO NO!!! |
| 00:34.29 | zr | NO GLIBC |
| 00:34.34 | Dhraakellian | kill it? |
| 00:34.35 | zr | NOT PYTHON OMG! |
| 00:34.37 | onkko | how can i do to put k3b in FR please |
| 00:34.56 | Dhraakellian | (please tell me this is a cruel joke) |
| 00:36.57 | *** join/#kde zr (~zr@host167-55.pool80116.interbusiness.it) |
| 00:36.59 | zr | j/k |
| 00:37.38 | Dhraakellian | you narfing incestual fornicator |
| 00:38.07 | zr | shivers me timbers |
| 00:39.12 | Dhraakellian | I would put that up on bash.org if I expected the average reader to know what "unmerging world" means |
| 00:39.59 | zr | they host a counterstrike server |
| 00:40.05 | zr | nuff said about the avarage iq |
| 00:40.08 | zr | *average |
| 00:40.28 | *** join/#kde dle (~dle@Toronto-HSE-ppp3888699.sympatico.ca) |
| 00:40.33 | Dhraakellian | not being too familiar with counterstrike, I'm not sure what you mean by that |
| 00:40.48 | *** part/#kde onkko (~onkko@syella.venigo.fr) |
| 00:41.20 | zr | nothing, don't mind |
| 00:41.59 | dle | Does anyone know how KDE relates font preferences to motif/lesstif apps? Until recently, the fonts on widgets in acroread, gv, and nedit were the same as on K and G apps, but that's broken now. Don't know why. Running mdk-linux-10o. |
| 00:43.20 | *** join/#kde nebyeti (~Ben@dialup-4.158.18.124.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) |
| 00:45.10 | sauber | someone knows if there is a way to adjust kdesktops align to grid behaviour? |
| 00:46.05 | dle | sauber: right-click -> Icons -> Align to Grid |
| 00:46.37 | sauber | dle: no.. i want to change the spacing of the grid |
| 00:46.56 | sauber | i got much more space between icons with align to grid on kde 3.3 than older versions |
| 00:47.04 | sauber | it looks ugly |
| 00:48.48 | dle | ah. good question, and I don't know the answer. :) |
| 00:49.34 | sauber | dle: you guys got the same differnent behaviour of the align to grid option? |
| 00:50.06 | sauber | the space between icons is as large as a icon |
| 00:50.54 | dle | sauber: I'm running 3.2. |
| 00:51.08 | sauber | i see |
| 00:53.10 | *** join/#kde blackbird (~cabernet@202.78.41.26) |
| 00:53.13 | aseigo | sauber: yeah, that was hardcoded in there =/ |
| 00:53.29 | aseigo | sauber: there is a bug report or three about it on bugs.kde.org ... go vote for one of them |
| 00:53.40 | sauber | ah ok |
| 00:53.47 | sauber | thanks for the info |
| 00:54.02 | sauber | damn.. my laptop took 1 day compiling kde 3.3 and now this mess :) |
| 00:54.09 | dle | I'm glad I've heard about this. I think I'll hold off on an upgrade. |
| 00:55.55 | Dhraakellian | is there an easy way to toggle the preview pane on and off in KMail without going into the settings? |
| 00:59.19 | grepper | drag it :) |
| 01:01.02 | Dhraakellian | heh |
| 01:01.06 | *** join/#kde kde (~kde@215-235.dynamic.akademy.kde.org) |
| 01:01.50 | Dhraakellian | I was thinking something more along the lines of a keystroke, toolbar button, or grippy sort of thing |
| 01:02.41 | *** join/#kde sAkYa_ (~sakya@dsl-082-083-058-224.arcor-ip.net) |
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| 01:17.14 | jeebes | hi |
| 01:17.29 | jeebes | I've got a bit of a problem with the new KDE, I can't seem to install all of it |
| 01:17.58 | jeebes | I did an apt-get upgrade to get it, or most of it, it is holding back lots of apps becasue it can't install the newest kdelibs4 |
| 01:18.06 | jeebes | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:20.19 | *** join/#kde lrathbon (~logan@CPE7ed9415afb2c-CM014210012128.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 01:20.45 | lrathbon | is it possible to change the shortcut of sending messages in Kopete from ctrl+enter to just enter? |
| 01:20.57 | aseigo | lrathbon: yes |
| 01:21.21 | aseigo | would you like to know how as well? ;-) |
| 01:21.28 | lrathbon | aseigo: please |
| 01:21.34 | aseigo | in the chat window, go under the settings menu and go into the configure shortcuts dialog |
| 01:22.00 | lrathbon | yeah I did that before |
| 01:22.06 | lrathbon | but shortcut was listed as "none" |
| 01:22.14 | lrathbon | for Say |
| 01:24.34 | lrathbon | and if I set it as return it still doesn't work |
| 01:25.01 | lrathbon | oh I see, it's Send message |
| 01:27.41 | *** join/#kde CoolPops (~jeremy@dhcp024-209-047-249.neo.rr.com) |
| 01:28.41 | dec0ding | what is the /decoZzzZzz |
| 01:28.43 | CoolPops | Has anyone made Kde 3.3's new Window Specific Settings work for Emacs and the Emacs Speedbar? I'm having difficulties making Kde distinguish between the two. Settings for my Emacs window are getting set for the speedbar as well. |
| 01:30.51 | *** join/#kde tyreth (~tyreth@CPE-147-10-33-95.vic.bigpond.net.au) |
| 01:31.04 | *** join/#kde Echo6 (~overlord@ws140-217.patterson.dynamic.msstate.edu) |
| 01:31.10 | tyreth | kget crashes for me with 3.3, how can I set konqueror to use a different app, or to just not use kget? |
| 01:31.12 | *** join/#kde KonvIRC (nobody@24-56-163-92.nm.warpdriveonline.com) |
| 01:31.31 | aseigo | tyreth: go into the kget configuration and disable it there |
| 01:31.47 | tyreth | aseigo: If you mean by loading kget, I can't do that: it crashes |
| 01:32.48 | lrathbon | why is it that arts always causes problems for me... I really don't like it, I wish I could just get kde programs to use alsa |
| 01:33.32 | aseigo | alsa is not an option |
| 01:33.50 | aseigo | for numerous reasons that are usually not immediately apparent to those not involved with desktop multimedia dev =) |
| 01:33.59 | aseigo | the good news is that aRts is going away in KDE4 |
| 01:34.04 | lrathbon | thank god |
| 01:34.47 | jeebes | what is to blame for the KDE sound system refusing to let go of the driver for me? |
| 01:34.57 | *** join/#kde blackbird (~cabernet@202.78.41.26) |
| 01:35.00 | aseigo | jeebes: design. |
| 01:35.06 | aseigo | poor design, to be exact ;-) |
| 01:35.09 | jeebes | I mean is it the sound driver, or kde |
| 01:35.14 | aseigo | neither |
| 01:35.17 | aseigo | it's aRts |
| 01:35.22 | lrathbon | arts messes around with my volumes |
| 01:35.28 | lrathbon | which is extremely annoying |
| 01:35.45 | jeebes | I can't seem to get the arts alternatives to work |
| 01:35.54 | aseigo | jeebes: what arts alternatives? |
| 01:35.59 | jeebes | Whats it called again |
| 01:36.04 | aseigo | jeebes: the only alt right now is gstreamer which only works with juk and amarok |
| 01:36.04 | jeebes | os something |
| 01:36.09 | aseigo | oh... oss? |
| 01:36.15 | jeebes | yea |
| 01:36.21 | lrathbon | oss isn't comparable to arts |
| 01:36.26 | jeebes | oh |
| 01:36.31 | jeebes | what exactly is arts |
| 01:36.48 | *** join/#kde CpuID-Work (~nathan@dsl-202-173-145-89.qld.westnet.com.au) |
| 01:37.07 | CpuID-Work | hey, someone mind letting me know what the best config setup would be using arts/alsa? |
| 01:37.22 | jeebes | alsa, ins't that the alternative |
| 01:37.25 | lrathbon | arts is at a higher level, originally I think it was made so that people could play more than one sound at a time using OSS which didn't permit that |
| 01:37.33 | lrathbon | but ALSA does... |
| 01:37.35 | CpuID-Work | it seems a lot of kde likes and wants arts (as it would) yet ive got nice alsa support in my kernel |
| 01:37.44 | tyreth | I've noticed that kde 3.3 sets all my mixer volumes to 0 except for one...which is useless since i need two of them up to hear anything. |
| 01:37.50 | lrathbon | but then again arts is useful for setting up software midi synthesizing |
| 01:38.47 | aseigo | alsa is not an option |
| 01:38.51 | aseigo | for numerous reasons that are usually not immediately apparent to those not involved with desktop multimedia dev =) |
| 01:38.54 | aseigo | the good news is that aRts is going away in KDE4 |
| 01:39.07 | lrathbon | not immediately apparent, but they're apparent |
| 01:39.22 | jeebes | Ahh |
| 01:39.33 | jeebes | I can't use my kcontrol thing |
| 01:39.34 | aseigo | lrathbon: aRts was orginally designed to be a synth app |
| 01:39.35 | jeebes | An error occurred during your last KDE upgrade leaving an orphaned control module |
| 01:39.38 | aseigo | lrathbon: so.. yeah.. not surprising =) |
| 01:39.46 | lrathbon | aseigo: yeah |
| 01:39.52 | aseigo | jeebes: have you logged out of your KDE since upgrading KDE? |
| 01:39.53 | jeebes | hardly anything in the control center will open |
| 01:39.55 | jeebes | uh |
| 01:39.56 | jeebes | no |
| 01:39.59 | jeebes | I'll try that |
| 01:40.02 | jeebes | :) |
| 01:40.02 | lrathbon | aseigo: the only way I've ever been able to get MIDI working is through Timidity/aRts |
| 01:40.04 | aseigo | yeah. it helps |
| 01:40.05 | *** join/#kde keanne (~riken@mnc02.mei.co.jp) |
| 01:40.08 | jeebes | brb |
| 01:40.11 | jeebes | hopefully |
| 01:40.15 | aseigo | or else just run `kbuildsycoca --noincremental` |
| 01:40.16 | CpuID-Work | so is it best using alsa for my kernel? |
| 01:40.20 | CpuID-Work | and use arts as my mixer etc? |
| 01:40.31 | aseigo | CpuID-Work: you have little choise at this point =) |
| 01:40.43 | CpuID-Work | ok coo |
| 01:40.46 | lrathbon | CpuID-Work: definitely |
| 01:40.50 | CpuID-Work | so im guessing arts became due to OSS being so gay? |
| 01:40.54 | lrathbon | CpuID-Work: unless you want to use OSS |
| 01:40.59 | lrathbon | CpuID-Work: basically |
| 01:41.01 | aseigo | CpuID-Work: no. nothing of the sarts. |
| 01:41.02 | aseigo | er, sort |
| 01:41.02 | CpuID-Work | and now that theres alsa its getting phased out? |
| 01:41.07 | aseigo | no |
| 01:41.08 | CpuID-Work | ah k np |
| 01:41.13 | CpuID-Work | just a theory :) |
| 01:41.17 | lrathbon | oh I read arts as alsa |
| 01:41.38 | lrathbon | alsa was created to deal with the limitations of oss |
| 01:41.43 | CpuID-Work | ya |
| 01:41.46 | lrathbon | and also oss is totally nonfree, ironically |
| 01:41.48 | CpuID-Work | and it has all the kernel drivers etc |
| 01:47.01 | *** join/#kde BillClint (1000@d14-69-15-201.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 01:51.57 | *** join/#kde jeebes (~jeebes@dhcp024-208-188-071.columbus.rr.com) |
| 01:52.01 | jeebes | hmm |
| 01:52.14 | jeebes | ok everything seems to work fine after rebooting |
| 01:52.30 | aseigo | jeebes: =) |
| 01:52.31 | jeebes | except all the minimise and close buttons hava vanished from all my windows |
| 01:52.35 | aseigo | lo |
| 01:52.36 | aseigo | l |
| 01:52.39 | aseigo | who needs those? |
| 01:52.41 | jeebes | hehe |
| 01:53.09 | aseigo | jeebes: i was going to say... a bit late to be up isn't it? then i remembered i'm no longer in n. america right now.. hahahaa |
| 01:53.22 | jeebes | what time is it there |
| 01:53.27 | jeebes | its only 10 pm where I am |
| 01:53.38 | aseigo | 4am |
| 01:54.42 | jeebes | wow ok, the new window decorations widget lets you (ie: forces) you to design your own button config |
| 01:54.58 | jeebes | forced me to at least, if I wanted a little x to click |
| 01:55.05 | jeebes | no worries, everythings cool now :) |
| 01:55.24 | *** part/#kde CoolPops (~jeremy@dhcp024-209-047-249.neo.rr.com) |
| 01:57.05 | jeebes | so when you make a custom theme, if I were to upload it somewhere, does it have everything a person needs to use the same theme, or if I have a custom icon set, do they have to have it installed too |
| 01:58.20 | *** join/#kde Pixxt (1000@d14-69-15-201.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 01:59.07 | aseigo | jeebes: yes... atm i don't believe it packages up such things |
| 01:59.17 | jeebes | k |
| 01:59.27 | CpuID-Work | hmm, you wanna know whats weird, should i have an /etc/init.d/arts[d] file on my machine if ive got arts installed? (using gentoo portage) |
| 01:59.33 | CpuID-Work | im pretty sure there was one before |
| 01:59.49 | jeebes | It would be ideal if it saved lots of stuff, including karamba themes and stuff |
| 02:00.00 | CpuID-Work | mmm karamba |
| 02:00.01 | jeebes | ideal in that it would be easy to trade themes |
| 02:00.11 | jeebes | I hope they integrate it into kde soon |
| 02:00.17 | jeebes | karamba I mean |
| 02:00.32 | aseigo | jeebes: well, karamba in its current form probably won't any time soon |
| 02:00.44 | aseigo | jeebes: it's too cpu intensive and really ought to be integrated directly into kdesktop so as avoid hackiness |
| 02:00.58 | aseigo | jeebes: it's on my "to discuss at akademy for kde 4" list |
| 02:03.54 | jeebes | cool |
| 02:04.02 | jeebes | as long as the wheel is spinning... |
| 02:04.03 | *** join/#kde Anthony- (~anthony@S010602608cdb4440.vn.shawcable.net) |
| 02:04.27 | jeebes | I love superkaramba, has a lot of potential |
| 02:04.46 | *** join/#kde hyphenated (~cgilmour@morannon.eservglobal.co.nz) |
| 02:05.03 | *** join/#kde doctorwhite (~doctorwhi@deu-74-57.Reshall.Berkeley.EDU) |
| 02:05.05 | jeebes | though after my upgrade its tranparency isn't working right anymore, it shows a grey background as black |
| 02:05.22 | hyphenated | has anyone made 'OBEX File Transfer' work with their cellphone? |
| 02:06.47 | *** join/#kde Flo2K (~Flori@p54873DFE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 02:07.30 | Pixxt | woot anybody here got that freebie phone that comes with whatever mobile phone service you use |
| 02:07.44 | jeebes | what can you do with it |
| 02:07.55 | Anthony- | Is anyone familiar with the reason that KDE doesn't package its individual software programs in separate packages, instead of lumping them together? |
| 02:08.03 | aseigo | Anthony-: yes |
| 02:08.29 | jeebes | heh |
| 02:08.51 | jeebes | hey whats the deal with the screensaver config listing tons of screensavers but almost none of them work |
| 02:08.55 | aseigo | * pedantically |
| 02:09.07 | jeebes | or is that just me |
| 02:09.11 | aseigo | jeebes: your install of xscreensaver is b0rk3d |
| 02:09.14 | Anthony- | aseigo: The multi-word explanation being? |
| 02:09.31 | grepper | too much damn work ? |
| 02:09.36 | aseigo | Anthony-: it's easier on packagers and developers |
| 02:09.49 | aseigo | Anthony-: and there are relatively sane ways for packagers to split up the metapackages |
| 02:10.00 | aseigo | Anthony-: pretty much everyone is doing it that way these days |
| 02:10.08 | jeebes | ah |
| 02:10.11 | aseigo | Anthony-: if you build from source you can pass flags to configure to skip apps |
| 02:10.12 | jeebes | I'll try to reinstall it |
| 02:10.25 | hyphenated | Pixxt: I got my phone free with the service I signed up for, but that was ages ago, and they gave me a crappy nokia one |
| 02:10.37 | hyphenated | Pixxt: the new one, I had to shell out some $$ for |
| 02:10.48 | CpuID-Work | im never going on a phone contract again |
| 02:10.51 | Anthony- | aseigo: Granted, however that doesn't bypass the fact that I still need to download horribly bloated software packages and manually trim out all the nonsense |
| 02:10.56 | CpuID-Work | ive still got spare phones now, from previous contracts, which is good |
| 02:11.05 | Anthony- | It's even worse for a package-based distribution |
| 02:11.08 | CpuID-Work | im just gonna buy phones outright from now on, works out better off anyway |
| 02:11.35 | CpuID-Work | Anthony-: use gentoo, set some USE flags id say |
| 02:11.39 | CpuID-Work | its pretty sane to do |
| 02:11.40 | aseigo | Anthony-: no it isn't worse for package based dist |
| 02:11.54 | CpuID-Work | maybe on something like redhat where everyone is so used to rpm -i'ing precompiled packages, that is where its a mess :) |
| 02:12.05 | aseigo | Anthony-: witness suse, for instance |
| 02:12.10 | Anthony- | CpuID-Work: Gentoo USE flags help, though they're nothing compared to DO_NOT_COMPILE, which is painful to use |
| 02:12.18 | CpuID-Work | i guess so |
| 02:12.21 | jeebes | say is there a command that will tell you how long your os has been installed |
| 02:12.34 | CpuID-Work | gentoo portage leaves the freedom to do a lot for any builds that need specific requirements usually |
| 02:12.47 | CpuID-Work | so i guess if it doesnt do it already, can easily submit a patch for something new :) |
| 02:13.49 | Anthony- | CpuID-Work: Which is precisely why I use Gentoo for my systems but being a software developer myself, I'm trying to comprehend the reason they would force users to download needless software when there is a relatively straightforward alternative |
| 02:14.06 | Anthony- | Laziness is not an excuse |
| 02:14.44 | CpuID-Work | well, i think kde have the right idea |
| 02:14.50 | CpuID-Work | distribute categories of apps |
| 02:15.00 | CpuID-Work | if maybe you have 5 apps its not too bad to do them separately |
| 02:15.11 | CpuID-Work | but when you ahve the amount that kde does :) |
| 02:15.38 | Dhraakellian | hmm |
| 02:15.51 | Anthony- | I don't argue that there's anything wrong with categorization, but I believe that there is something definitely wrong with rediculous bloating of distributed files |
| 02:15.58 | Dhraakellian | I seem to remember from the days when I would install Mozilla every day on the computers at school |
| 02:16.07 | Anthony- | If I needed a windows-level of bloat, I wouldn't be using Linux |
| 02:16.09 | Dhraakellian | that I could choose which components to install |
| 02:16.21 | Dhraakellian | is there something like that for KDE? |
| 02:16.26 | lrathbon | I like it SIMPLE though -- if I install Xorg, I don't want to have a million different packs to organize, along with devel packs |
| 02:16.31 | Dhraakellian | "Which image viewer do you want?" |
| 02:17.24 | *** part/#kde owen (~owen@S010600095bdadbc7.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 02:17.47 | lrathbon | gah I typed that message in the wrong channel :P |
| 02:18.12 | aseigo | Anthony-: then pick a distro that does it right |
| 02:18.19 | aseigo | Anthony-: obviously you are using something braindamaged |
| 02:18.39 | Anthony- | lrathbon: Xorg is a display server that has one single purpose, which is to create an initial GUI environment that can be built upon. KMail has one single purpose, as does KSirc, Konsole and Kopete. There is nothing wrong with having addons to those -independant- programs, but that doesn't mean that all of them need to be distributed together |
| 02:18.56 | lrathbon | Anthony-: I didn't mean to type that here |
| 02:19.19 | lrathbon | but what I said kind of works in this context, hehe |
| 02:19.26 | Anthony- | It applies to the discussion |
| 02:19.35 | *** join/#kde illogic-al (~illogic-a@24-193-108-12.nyc.rr.com) |
| 02:19.36 | Dhraakellian | hmm |
| 02:20.02 | Dhraakellian | I know that Gentoo doesn't provide a kdeextragear package |
| 02:20.18 | lrathbon | but I don't think it'd be a good idea to separate the kdesktop package from the kwin pack, etc -- I think kdebase should be kept the way it is |
| 02:20.21 | Dhraakellian | but has separate ebuilds for each app |
| 02:20.22 | Anthony- | aseigo: Granted, Gentoo could break up the packages and distribute them individually. On the other hand, what's wrong with the -developers- of the software taking the time to offer their software in a sane way? |
| 02:20.38 | aseigo | Anthony-: we do offer it in a sane way |
| 02:20.40 | Anthony- | lrathbon: I agree on that, I'm meaning only packages such as kdenetwork |
| 02:20.51 | aseigo | Anthony-: a sane way for the intended consumers. which are sane distributors of binaries |
| 02:20.56 | lrathbon | Anthony-: I heartily agree -- which is what a lot of distros are doing already |
| 02:20.59 | aseigo | Anthony-: gentoo does fall into that category. |
| 02:21.08 | lrathbon | but that's not how they're packaged by the KDE devels, I know |
| 02:21.11 | aseigo | er, s,does,does not, |
| 02:21.21 | *** join/#kde illogic-al (~konversat@24-193-108-12.nyc.rr.com) |
| 02:21.31 | Dhraakellian | hmm |
| 02:21.44 | Dhraakellian | illogic-al == Alpha_and_Omega? |
| 02:21.45 | Dhraakellian | hmm |
| 02:21.53 | Alpha_and_Omega | Yes |
| 02:22.00 | Alpha_and_Omega | Yes it does. |
| 02:22.04 | Dhraakellian | be afraid? |
| 02:22.16 | Alpha_and_Omega | Mayhaps |
| 02:22.27 | Anthony- | aseigo: I don't dispute that, though I also don't see why it can't be made to be somewhat flexible for people who prefer better control over their software without having to jump through an array of hoops to filter out the unnecessary components |
| 02:22.32 | blackbird | begging and the end |
| 02:22.50 | lrathbon | whoa konqi has a googlebar now? |
| 02:22.57 | Dhraakellian | yep |
| 02:23.04 | lrathbon | sick |
| 02:23.11 | whappd | what? where? |
| 02:23.13 | Dhraakellian | good sick or bad sick? |
| 02:23.13 | lrathbon | I might start using it more now |
| 02:23.15 | whappd | i want one :0 |
| 02:23.20 | lrathbon | good sick |
| 02:23.25 | Dhraakellian | whappd: 3.3 |
| 02:23.28 | whappd | eh. |
| 02:23.31 | Dhraakellian | webbrowsing profile |
| 02:23.35 | whappd | screw that. i'm not updating yet. |
| 02:23.52 | Anthony- | aseigo: For example, while using KMail and clicking on a link in a message, I would rather shoot myself in the foot than have it open in Konqueror or download the file and display it from a local temp file |
| 02:23.54 | lrathbon | whappd: uh.. ? hence the "now" in my message :P |
| 02:24.12 | whappd | lrathbon: i wasn't sure if it was a plugin or something... |
| 02:24.19 | lrathbon | whappd: oh ok |
| 02:24.39 | lrathbon | I still wonder if there's a way to make it so you can single click on the location bar to select the url |
| 02:24.45 | lrathbon | my family gets soooo confused that way |
| 02:25.24 | Anthony- | I don't disagree that KMail provides excellent functionality (minus the Qt/KDE backend), however there is a point where the extra features become detrimental rather than productive |
| 02:26.22 | aseigo | Anthony-: there are some features in kmail that are largely unecessary, yes.. |
| 02:26.24 | Alpha_and_Omega | Really? |
| 02:26.27 | aseigo | Anthony-: that's totally unrelated to the topic |
| 02:26.36 | aseigo | Anthony-: and you can set your browser to something other than konqueror in 3.3 |
| 02:26.36 | Alpha_and_Omega | o_0 |
| 02:27.14 | aseigo | Alpha_and_Omega: hm? |
| 02:27.17 | lrathbon | aseigo: you can? Sick! |
| 02:27.19 | *** join/#kde renyi|ace (~renyi@219.95.202.240) |
| 02:27.19 | Anthony- | aseigo: Perhaps then, if the software wasn't distributed in such a bloated fashion with so many inter-dependencies, those detrimental features would not be present |
| 02:27.28 | lrathbon | but.. I don't think I want to now that I've seen the changes made to Konqi |
| 02:27.32 | aseigo | lrathbon: hey... users get what they want =) |
| 02:27.43 | Alpha_and_Omega | aseigo: "there is a point where the extra features become detrimental rather than productive" |
| 02:27.47 | lrathbon | aseigo: heh |
| 02:27.50 | aseigo | lrathbon: well, yeah... we waited until konq rocked to implement that ;-) ... just kidding of cours |
| 02:28.04 | lrathbon | heh |
| 02:28.13 | George | Anthony-: please elaborate as to the bloat of the distribution |
| 02:28.15 | aseigo | Alpha_and_Omega: astounded as in you agree with that statement, or disagree with that statement |
| 02:28.25 | George | Anthony-: are you referring to the main modules, like kdenetwork, kdebase etc? |
| 02:28.29 | aseigo | Anthony-: well, that has nothing to do with it |
| 02:28.34 | aseigo | Anthony-: do you actually develop software? |
| 02:28.47 | Alpha_and_Omega | woops |
| 02:28.59 | aseigo | Alpha_and_Omega: haha... now we know who you REALLY ARE! ;-) |
| 02:29.02 | Anthony- | George: If you read upwards, you can see what I was meaning by "bloat" |
| 02:29.09 | Alpha_and_Omega | aseigo: heheh |
| 02:29.19 | Alpha_and_Omega | aseigo: astounded as in disagree |
| 02:29.20 | Anthony- | George: I was meaning the packaging and high degree if inter-dependency of the software |
| 02:29.34 | aseigo | Alpha_and_Omega: oh. well... he's correct in that there are features that are completely unecessary |
| 02:29.34 | Anthony- | "of", rather than "if" |
| 02:29.50 | aseigo | Alpha_and_Omega: it has nothing to do with our packaging and integration, however |
| 02:29.59 | George | Anthony-: we would lose a lot of development efficiency if we developed without the module system we have - we'd waste lots of time with the fragmented build system |
| 02:30.06 | aseigo | Alpha_and_Omega: and kmail is actually making progress towards better rather than worse in that category, however |
| 02:30.18 | Alpha_and_Omega | aseigo: like what? I find that all its features are useful to me |
| 02:30.28 | Alpha_and_Omega | bouncing is especially fun :-) |
| 02:30.37 | lrathbon | one of my favourite KDE extra gear projects is KMPlayer.. I'm surprised no one ever talks about it |
| 02:30.48 | aseigo | sure... but having N different filtering mechanisms isn't very useful |
| 02:30.57 | George | Anthony-: we are not packagers, it's up to the distributions to package our stuff |
| 02:31.01 | lrathbon | it rules |
| 02:31.09 | Anthony- | George: As aseigo pointed out earlier, the software appeals to an audience, though I believe that there's a point where it becomes unreasonable |
| 02:31.40 | Alpha_and_Omega | aseigo: I dunno about that. It gives people the choice on whether they want to use spamassassin or whatever else there is out there |
| 02:31.48 | Anthony- | If I want a MUA, I don't need another eight megabytes of compressed garbage along with it |
| 02:31.49 | Alpha_and_Omega | cjoice is always a good thing |
| 02:31.54 | Alpha_and_Omega | *choice |
| 02:32.12 | Alpha_and_Omega | Anthony-: that's what mutt's for :-D |
| 02:32.23 | aseigo | Anthony-: then use an OS that packages things properly |
| 02:32.34 | Anthony- | Alpha_and_Omega: I've heard |
| 02:32.47 | George | Anthony-: to be honest, I'd rather download the module than hunt for 1000s of packages of the individual apps |
| 02:32.55 | aseigo | Alpha_and_Omega: filtering.. not spam killing |
| 02:32.57 | Alpha_and_Omega | Just heard the tales |
| 02:32.59 | aseigo | mutt is pretty cool |
| 02:33.09 | lrathbon | aseigo: well if OSes package it properly.. then shouldn't KDE also do it the "proper" way? point is, there is no proper way of doing things |
| 02:33.17 | Anthony- | aseigo: It's not the distribution that doesn't package things properly, it's KDE |
| 02:33.20 | George | Anthony-: and inter dependancy is good, it means we don't reimpliment stuff |
| 02:33.41 | George | Anthony-: if we didn't have interdependancy, we'd have serious bloat issues |
| 02:33.47 | lrathbon | I mean... if you don't want bloat, why are you using KDE? |
| 02:33.54 | Alpha_and_Omega | lol |
| 02:34.07 | lrathbon | seriously though |
| 02:34.09 | aseigo | Anthony-: oh, we're supposed to spoon feed the distros while making development work less efficient? |
| 02:34.22 | lrathbon | I think Anthony- has a point |
| 02:34.40 | Anthony- | George: A packaging system could handle the main dependency installations, what concerns me is the quite restrictive nature of the packages |
| 02:34.41 | aseigo | lrathbon: you're not a software developer or packager either are you? ;-) |
| 02:34.42 | lrathbon | I'm not saying he's right, but he has a point, and it's valid |
| 02:34.51 | aseigo | Anthony-: they aren't restrictive |
| 02:34.53 | lrathbon | aseigo: I know pyQt, stfu! j/k |
| 02:34.55 | George | Anthony-: define "restrictive nature" |
| 02:35.06 | aseigo | Anthony-: they are just collections of apps which makes our job that much easier |
| 02:35.11 | Anthony- | George: If only a few of the larger applications were distributed independantly, it would be greatly helpful |
| 02:35.20 | lrathbon | aseigo: I'm not a politician, so I guess that means I have no right to talk about politics? |
| 02:35.37 | Alpha_and_Omega | Anthony-: I don't know which distro you are using but I don't like the way MDK decided to patch KDE and instead of blaming KDE i just built it from source |
| 02:35.46 | aseigo | lrathbon: no. you can talk about politics, but one would hope you have a general grasp of politics |
| 02:35.46 | lrathbon | btw kolourpaint is sooooooooooooo much better than kpaint |
| 02:35.50 | Anthony- | aseigo: I don't disagree with that, but does making your job easier make it right to make the jobs of countless other users that much more difficult? |
| 02:35.52 | Alpha_and_Omega | Now I'm happy and MDK is happy and we can all live in peace |
| 02:35.58 | aseigo | lrathbon: you think? yeah... kolourpaint rox |
| 02:36.12 | aseigo | lrathbon: there is talk of integrating kjsembed to make writing effects plugins ubersimple |
| 02:36.29 | George | Anthony-: yes, but a lot of the larger applications depend heavily on the smaller ones |
| 02:36.31 | aseigo | Anthony-: the two measurements are orthogonal |
| 02:36.40 | Anthony- | Alpha_and_Omega: That's definitely a solution even if it may not be ideal |
| 02:36.40 | lrathbon | aseigo: I don't think the KDE devels are doing things wrong -- I like the modules -- but certain programs should be split -- I mean we have JuK and Noatun which basically serve the same purpose |
| 02:36.41 | aseigo | Anthony-: and it doesn't make users lives that much more difficult. |
| 02:36.43 | George | Anthony-: for example, KMail depends on most of the stuff in kdepim |
| 02:36.46 | aseigo | Anthony-: packagers can and do get it right |
| 02:36.49 | lrathbon | there should be one KDE media player |
| 02:36.53 | aseigo | Anthony-: for those compiling from source, it's not that hard either |
| 02:37.04 | lrathbon | but as far as KDE pim goes.. you guys are doing it perfectly IMHO |
| 02:37.10 | aseigo | lrathbon: the proper comparison would be noatun and amaroK |
| 02:37.19 | George | Anthony-: as I say, we are the developers, not the packagers. We simply release the source code and it just so happens most packagers package the same way our build system works |
| 02:37.22 | aseigo | lrathbon: juk and noatun serve fundamentally different audiences |
| 02:37.35 | aseigo | lrathbon: and amarok will hopefully replace noatun in the near future |
| 02:37.43 | George | Anthony-: as it's more convenient for the packagers and it doesn't make much difference at all |
| 02:37.44 | lrathbon | aseigo: still... I think KDE should have one media player by default. That's just my opinion. |
| 02:37.44 | Alpha_and_Omega | lrathbon: there is |
| 02:37.57 | Alpha_and_Omega | lrathbon: it's noatun :-) |
| 02:38.11 | George | Anthony-: it is perfectly possible to package each application separately, and Debian does it this way |
| 02:38.24 | aseigo | lrathbon: would be nice but then we underserve one segment or the other |
| 02:38.26 | Alpha_and_Omega | juk manages music collections |
| 02:38.28 | aseigo | lrathbon: nasty that way |
| 02:38.42 | lrathbon | well then consider this |
| 02:38.44 | Alpha_and_Omega | noatun is mainly for playing individual files |
| 02:38.52 | aseigo | Alpha_and_Omega: you are thinking of kaboodle i think |
| 02:38.59 | lrathbon | Kaboodle and Noatun are both labeled 'Media Player' |
| 02:39.00 | Anthony- | George: Referring to your KMail comment, my disagreement is not that it doesn't work as-is, rather that it works and I would rather not have the extra dependency that I'll never need... |
| 02:39.11 | lrathbon | one of them should be eliminated, or its description should be changed |
| 02:39.22 | Alpha_and_Omega | aseigo: i was actually thinking of noatun, but i see your point |
| 02:39.24 | aseigo | lrathbon: well, that's not really what those descriptions are for... we use them poorly though |
| 02:39.25 | Dhraakellian | I actually have a use for both JuK and amaroK |
| 02:39.29 | *** part/#kde tyreth (~tyreth@CPE-147-10-33-95.vic.bigpond.net.au) |
| 02:39.38 | George | Anthony-: well, take that up with the KMail people |
| 02:39.48 | Dhraakellian | JuK for tagging (the multiline comment field is nifty) |
| 02:39.53 | Dhraakellian | and amarok for everything else |
| 02:39.54 | aseigo | Anthony-: which dependency is that? |
| 02:40.42 | Anthony- | George: For example, I used KDE's menu bar with the FluxBox window manager along side with KMail. It was faster not having to use KWin, though it performed horribly in the long run because of the dependency factor |
| 02:40.46 | dle | juk could use some improvement. |
| 02:40.48 | lrathbon | and KPDF is useless imho |
| 02:41.01 | lrathbon | I see no advantage to using it over KGhostview |
| 02:41.08 | Alpha_and_Omega | dle: juk got a lot of love for 3.3 |
| 02:41.15 | aseigo | lrathbon: besides being an order of magnitude faster? |
| 02:41.24 | George | Anthony-: KDE isn't designed to run with foreign window managers, although it will interoperate with them. As 99% of us are using KWin all the optimizations etc are for KWin (obviously) |
| 02:41.30 | Alpha_and_Omega | lrathbon: kghostview does _not_ work with al pdfs |
| 02:41.31 | dle | Alpha_and_Omega: you mean it's a lot better> |
| 02:41.34 | dle | ? |
| 02:41.34 | aseigo | lrathbon: there are patches that port kpdf to xpdf 3 which even widens the gap further |
| 02:41.40 | Alpha_and_Omega | dle: yes |
| 02:41.53 | dle | I'm glad to hear that. :)] |
| 02:42.00 | Anthony- | George: I realize that KDE is intended to be an entire desktop environment, it's just frustrating when wanting one program out of twenty and needing such a large number of dependencies |
| 02:42.01 | Dhraakellian | I like being able to do a non-left click on a window and have it in focus while still having it underneath things |
| 02:42.09 | Dhraakellian | without having to have the mouse over it |
| 02:42.12 | lrathbon | aseigo: I think KDE should have one "document viewer" and KGhostview seems like the one to me |
| 02:42.40 | aseigo | Anthony-: it has nothing to do with kwin |
| 02:42.50 | aseigo | Anthony-: it's the fact that when you don't have kdelibs loaded into ram, things start slower |
| 02:43.04 | aseigo | Anthony-: we have cool hacks like kdeinit and the like that make launching multiple kde apps faster |
| 02:43.11 | George | aseigo: I stand corrected :) |
| 02:43.19 | Anthony- | The point being that I need KDELibs and KDEInit in the first place |
| 02:43.31 | George | Anthony-: uhm. |
| 02:43.40 | aseigo | Anthony-: just like you needed glibc in the first place |
| 02:43.45 | Alpha_and_Omega | Anthony-: it's the backbone of kde |
| 02:43.46 | George | Anthony-: kdelibs is absolutely required. |
| 02:43.54 | Alpha_and_Omega | og course you'll need kdelibs |
| 02:43.55 | George | Anthony-: just like gtk is required for anything GNOME |
| 02:44.08 | George | Anthony-: if we didn't have kdelibs we'd have serious bloat issues |
| 02:44.08 | aseigo | Anthony-: a consistent, coherent, powerful, integrated desktop requires libs that bind things together |
| 02:44.16 | Anthony- | KDELibs I could live with. Having to start KDEInit in a foreign window environment I cannot |
| 02:44.38 | aseigo | Anthony-: you don't have to start kdeinit |
| 02:44.46 | George | kdeinit doesn't run when you're not running full KDE |
| 02:45.00 | George | kdeinit is run by the startkde script |
| 02:45.02 | Alpha_and_Omega | owned |
| 02:45.02 | George | iirc |
| 02:45.04 | aseigo | Anthony-: and kdeinit has nothing to do with the windowing environment, it has to do with launching subsequent kde apps faster =) |
| 02:45.15 | Alpha_and_Omega | :-D |
| 02:45.15 | Anthony- | George: When I was using KMail and FluxBox, KDEInit started prior to starting KMail |
| 02:45.23 | George | Anthony-: I find that highly unlikely |
| 02:45.33 | aseigo | George: depends on how it was in his menu |
| 02:45.48 | George | aseigo: yes, I suppose |
| 02:46.00 | lrathbon | aseigo: how should it have been in his menu? |
| 02:46.11 | aseigo | lrathbon: in theory just "kmail| |
| 02:46.14 | aseigo | er, "kmail" |
| 02:46.27 | George | well, $KDEDIR/bin/kmail |
| 02:46.29 | Dhraakellian | kmail! |
| 02:46.40 | George | as if he was in a foreign environment KDEDIR may not have been set |
| 02:47.04 | aseigo | kdedir isn't set anymore. it was depricated in kde2 |
| 02:47.05 | Alpha_and_Omega | mmm, cheetos |
| 02:47.09 | aseigo | `kde-config --prefix`/bin/kmail |
| 02:47.15 | aseigo | Alpha_and_Omega: oooh.. bring some of that shit over here |
| 02:47.22 | lrathbon | usually when I'm in WMaker (or what have you) and run a program such as "kmail" in an xterm, running ps -A tells me that kdeinit is indeed running |
| 02:47.23 | *** join/#kde lypanov (~alex@lyp.xs4all.nl) |
| 02:47.37 | aseigo | Alpha_and_Omega: thx |
| 02:47.40 | Anthony- | George: I can't recall the exact installation environment it was using, although I certainly remember waiting twenty seconds for the kdeinit server to start, and then watching it start subsequent programs only afterwards |
| 02:47.47 | Alpha_and_Omega | You finish it and i kill you |
| 02:47.55 | aseigo | lrathbon: hm... i wonder if that's due to kuniqueapp forking and then running kdeinit to avoid double startup overhead |
| 02:48.04 | aseigo | Anthony-: it isn't a server =) |
| 02:48.14 | George | Anthony-: kdeinit is only a script, and kdeinit runs in about 2-3 seconds here |
| 02:48.17 | Anthony- | aseigo: Daemon, then |
| 02:48.29 | aseigo | Anthony-: it's a silly do-nothing app that just loads the kdelibs into mem so that other apps don't have to =) |
| 02:48.46 | George | Anthony-: are you referring to kded? |
| 02:48.58 | lrathbon | on a completely unrelated note.. anyone know if KGhostView will have a find feature sometime soon? |
| 02:49.07 | aseigo | lrathbon: doubt it =/ |
| 02:49.09 | Alpha_and_Omega | what the heck does kded do? |
| 02:49.10 | George | aseigo: it's nearly 5am :) |
| 02:49.16 | aseigo | George: only? ;-) |
| 02:49.16 | lrathbon | I'm still using XPDF because of that |
| 02:49.20 | George | aseigo: hehe :) |
| 02:49.39 | aseigo | lrathbon: yeah... that's one of the nice things about kpdf is that it should track xpdf from release to release |
| 02:50.05 | lrathbon | aseigo: what's KGhostView's focus going to be for future releases? |
| 02:50.18 | aseigo | lrathbon: no idea |
| 02:50.37 | Anthony- | George: At this point there's no reason to be discussing the FluxBox and KMail scenario because it was many months ago |
| 02:50.54 | Anthony- | I honestly can't remember enough about it to discuss it properly |
| 02:50.55 | George | Anthony-: so what other gripes have you got with KDE? |
| 02:51.00 | lrathbon | like right now KGhostview is listed as PS/PDF Viewer and KPDF is listed as PDF viewer... so in my eyes there's overlap, and if I were new to KDE I'd think, "hm, what's the point of kpdf if kghostview does both?" |
| 02:51.03 | Alpha_and_Omega | One dedicated gs viewer and another dedicated pdf viewer |
| 02:51.15 | Alpha_and_Omega | *ps |
| 02:51.23 | George | KGhostview loads PDF? |
| 02:51.33 | Alpha_and_Omega | George: It tries |
| 02:51.50 | lrathbon | I've had less problems with KGhostview loading PDFs than I have with KPDF |
| 02:51.50 | Alpha_and_Omega | And most of the times makes a valiant attempt |
| 02:51.53 | Anthony- | George: I'm certain that I could provide you with an expansive list, though in the interest of drawing the line... |
| 02:52.22 | aseigo | lrathbon: i generally agree with that... once kpdf has proven itself i'm sure we'll drop pdf support from kghostview |
| 02:52.41 | lrathbon | aseigo: cool |
| 02:52.58 | aseigo | no point in code dupe... and we have a general policy of one purpose, one app |
| 02:53.56 | lrathbon | but I'm glad you have pdf support in kghostview now actually.. because KPDF does a crap job rendering the pdfs |
| 02:55.29 | lrathbon | I'm liking the new sounds in kde btw... a lot less "shocking" than the ones in 3.2 |
| 02:55.50 | Alpha_and_Omega | The new sounds are awesome. |
| 02:56.16 | lrathbon | yes |
| 02:56.23 | Alpha_and_Omega | For this alone I'm willing to endure artsd |
| 02:56.25 | *** part/#kde Anthony- (~anthony@S010602608cdb4440.vn.shawcable.net) |
| 02:56.29 | lrathbon | I found the old startup sound endearing... but the new one is better |
| 02:56.49 | Dhraakellian | I had the new sounds for a while |
| 02:56.57 | Dhraakellian | then I turned them off |
| 02:57.05 | lrathbon | Dhraakellian: don't like 'em? |
| 02:57.18 | Dhraakellian | they're okay, but the novelty wore off |
| 02:57.41 | Dhraakellian | that and the SG-1 eps I was watching required me to turn the volume way up |
| 02:58.04 | Dhraakellian | and then someone IMed me |
| 02:58.20 | Dhraakellian | loud notification sounds |
| 02:58.36 | lrathbon | hehe |
| 02:58.37 | Alpha_and_Omega | lol |
| 02:59.25 | Alpha_and_Omega | reclaims even |
| 02:59.36 | lrathbon | brb, need to take dog out :) |
| 02:59.46 | aseigo | ] |
| 03:00.04 | Alpha_and_Omega | Chester Cheetah says: "Lack of cheetos may cause slight brain damage." |
| 03:00.50 | lrathbon | haha |
| 03:07.34 | lrathbon | gah it's boring in here now |
| 03:07.40 | lrathbon | I want a heated discussion again :( |
| 03:07.50 | lypanov | kde sucks |
| 03:08.02 | lrathbon | ... |
| 03:08.26 | lypanov | ass |
| 03:08.26 | lypanov | heavily |
| 03:08.26 | lypanov | lots of it |
| 03:08.26 | Dhraakellian | !;) |
| 03:08.26 | lypanov | a lot |
| 03:08.26 | lrathbon | then what would that make GNOME in terms of suckiness? |
| 03:08.31 | lypanov | total ass sucking bitchcake material |
| 03:08.35 | Dhraakellian | lrathbon: gnome sucks the rest of the donkey? |
| 03:08.41 | lrathbon | Dhraakellian: erm... sure. |
| 03:08.50 | Dhraakellian | okay... |
| 03:08.57 | Dhraakellian | excuse me while I go floss my brain |
| 03:09.11 | lypanov | it all sucks ass |
| 03:09.20 | lrathbon | the ONLY thing I like about GNOME is the "Computer" icon on the desktop |
| 03:09.39 | lrathbon | I made my own for my KDE desktop :P |
| 03:09.46 | lypanov | wadafumofo? |
| 03:10.09 | lrathbon | I think I'll go stir up some controversy in #gentoo |
| 03:10.35 | Alpha_and_Omega | lol |
| 03:10.48 | lrathbon | Dhraakellian: you used DentoTape, I hope |
| 03:11.06 | Alpha_and_Omega | I think it was NeuroTape |
| 03:11.13 | Alpha_and_Omega | Brain floss and all... |
| 03:11.48 | lrathbon | what?? |
| 03:11.48 | Alpha_and_Omega | In other news... |
| 03:11.50 | Alpha_and_Omega | :-) |
| 03:11.52 | lrathbon | Alpha_and_Omega: what do you use? |
| 03:12.02 | lrathbon | if you say BitchX I'll kill you |
| 03:12.03 | Alpha_and_Omega | lrathbon: Konversation. |
| 03:12.11 | Dhraakellian | konversation is coming along |
| 03:12.12 | Alpha_and_Omega | lrathbon: lol |
| 03:12.18 | grepper | we are on to you lypanov - kde developer by day, evil Troll by night |
| 03:12.26 | lypanov | damnnit |
| 03:12.27 | Alpha_and_Omega | lol |
| 03:12.29 | lypanov | caught out |
| 03:12.36 | lypanov | irssi! |
| 03:12.37 | lrathbon | hehe |
| 03:12.45 | Dhraakellian | I look forward to the day when konversation catches up and passes xchat |
| 03:12.56 | lrathbon | xchat is bloated |
| 03:12.59 | Alpha_and_Omega | That day's already here for me :-P |
| 03:13.03 | lypanov | xchat is crud |
| 03:13.16 | lrathbon | Konsole is the best irc client out there |
| 03:13.18 | *** join/#kde guhvies (~guhvies@dsl093-119-202.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 03:13.27 | Alpha_and_Omega | lrathbon: ? |
| 03:13.31 | lrathbon | it gives me antialiased fonts for irssi :) |
| 03:13.35 | lypanov | Alpha_and_Omega: yum. thx |
| 03:13.37 | Dhraakellian | lypanov: don't take this the wrong way, but I believe YOUR MOM is bloated. |
| 03:13.38 | Dhraakellian | !;) |
| 03:13.51 | Alpha_and_Omega | lrathbon: so does gnome-terminal... |
| 03:13.55 | lrathbon | Dhraakellian: it was me that said xchat was bloated |
| 03:14.01 | lrathbon | Alpha_and_Omega: yeah but gnome-terminal is a pos |
| 03:14.04 | Dhraakellian | well... |
| 03:14.09 | Alpha_and_Omega | lol |
| 03:14.18 | Dhraakellian | lrathbon: still... does the troll not deserve it? |
| 03:14.31 | Dhraakellian | you two wouldn't happen to be siblings? |
| 03:14.39 | lrathbon | Dhraakellian: how did you know!? |
| 03:14.56 | Dhraakellian | >.> |
| 03:14.56 | Dhraakellian | <.< |
| 03:15.44 | Poprocks | ow |
| 03:15.47 | whappd | o.o |
| 03:15.51 | Alpha_and_Omega | with a cheeto |
| 03:15.56 | Alpha_and_Omega | ... |
| 03:16.04 | *** join/#kde somekool (~mjobin@S010600d0b73f8132.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 03:16.18 | The3_14ed|er | and points to anyone who can correctly pronounce this nick |
| 03:16.47 | somekool | hello people .... anyone remember once folders in konqueror was animating on mouse over ? I can't get this option back ? was it a special icon set feature ? |
| 03:16.48 | Poprocks | the leader? |
| 03:16.54 | The3_14ed|er | nope |
| 03:16.59 | Alpha_and_Omega | The3_14ed|er: The3_14ed|er |
| 03:17.05 | Alpha_and_Omega | exactly like that. |
| 03:17.08 | The3_14ed|er | Alpha_and_Omega: harharhar |
| 03:17.16 | Poprocks | haha... |
| 03:17.18 | Alpha_and_Omega | Gimme my points foo. |
| 03:17.20 | whappd | thee laedler? |
| 03:17.50 | *** join/#kde bipolar (~konversat@dsl-66-216-151-034.dejazzd.com) |
| 03:18.02 | bipolar | does anyone here use Rekall? |
| 03:18.02 | lypanov | The3_14ed|er: how did u know my mom was teh bl04t? |
| 03:18.11 | lypanov | rekall is lame |
| 03:18.14 | The3_14ed|er | lypanov: lucky guess |
| 03:18.16 | Alpha_and_Omega | So I got the new Xorg w/ transparency support |
| 03:18.24 | The3_14ed|er | oooh |
| 03:18.24 | Alpha_and_Omega | and fired up KDE |
| 03:18.27 | Alpha_and_Omega | OMFG! |
| 03:18.31 | Alpha_and_Omega | It rocks! |
| 03:18.31 | Poprocks | Alpha_and_Omega: gah!! |
| 03:18.32 | whappd | 3.3? |
| 03:18.38 | Alpha_and_Omega | Then it froze... |
| 03:18.43 | Poprocks | Alpha_and_Omega: ;) |
| 03:18.48 | whappd | hahaha |
| 03:18.53 | Poprocks | transparency is such a novelty |
| 03:18.53 | The3_14ed|er | hint: The π-ed |er |
| 03:19.02 | Alpha_and_Omega | So then I fired it up up again! |
| 03:19.11 | Poprocks | Alpha_and_Omega: all right! |
| 03:19.38 | Alpha_and_Omega | and was enjoying the sounds as i moused over diff desktops |
| 03:19.50 | Alpha_and_Omega | 1-2-3-4-1-2-3-4-1-2- |
| 03:19.50 | lypanov | The3_14ed|er: :P |
| 03:19.54 | Alpha_and_Omega | freeze... |
| 03:19.56 | Poprocks | was the translucency not distracting? |
| 03:19.57 | The3_14ed|er | Alpha_and_Omega: you too? |
| 03:20.00 | *** part/#kde Echo6 (~overlord@ws140-217.patterson.dynamic.msstate.edu) |
| 03:20.12 | Alpha_and_Omega | So thenI fired it up again! |
| 03:20.21 | Poprocks | Alpha_and_Omega: tell us more! |
| 03:20.22 | The3_14ed|er | those desktop switching sounds are slightly addictive |
| 03:20.23 | Alpha_and_Omega | But this time i stuck to desktop one |
| 03:20.31 | The3_14ed|er | 's one reason I turned off system sounds |
| 03:20.38 | Alpha_and_Omega | And was messing around with the menu |
| 03:20.47 | Alpha_and_Omega | the menu shadows look weird |
| 03:20.55 | Alpha_and_Omega | but it didn't freeze |
| 03:21.10 | Alpha_and_Omega | So then I was like, Alright! Let's fire up an app! |
| 03:21.16 | Poprocks | oh great |
| 03:21.19 | *** join/#kde SecretMethod70 (SecretMeth@c-24-12-144-155.client.comcast.net) |
| 03:21.31 | Alpha_and_Omega | And I fired up konversation |
| 03:21.40 | Poprocks | and it froze? |
| 03:21.47 | Alpha_and_Omega | and turned on transparency for the konvi window |
| 03:21.51 | Alpha_and_Omega | and it was meh |
| 03:21.56 | Alpha_and_Omega | (not that impressive) |
| 03:22.07 | Poprocks | Alpha_and_Omega: how do you "turn on transparency"? |
| 03:22.07 | Alpha_and_Omega | So then I turned it off |
| 03:22.15 | Alpha_and_Omega | Poprocks: transset |
| 03:22.40 | Alpha_and_Omega | So _then_ a Konvi OSD display came up! |
| 03:22.41 | The3_14ed|er | psuedo-transparency, though |
| 03:22.54 | Alpha_and_Omega | And it had the shadows and looked cool! |
| 03:23.02 | Alpha_and_Omega | But then X froze again... |
| 03:23.19 | Poprocks | Alpha_and_Omega: doesn't sound worth it to me, yet |
| 03:23.29 | Alpha_and_Omega | Poprocks: nein. |
| 03:23.45 | Poprocks | and what are these desktop switching sounds you all speak of? |
| 03:23.55 | The3_14ed|er | http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=204881 <-- I'm considering setting that up |
| 03:24.04 | Alpha_and_Omega | But I can guarantee the KDE won't look quite right when the new X get's released |
| 03:24.14 | Alpha_and_Omega | Menu shadows for one |
| 03:24.37 | Poprocks | well I'm sure KDE will adapt to these changes in circumstance... |
| 03:24.45 | Alpha_and_Omega | they appear arounf the menu instead of below |
| 03:25.02 | *** join/#kde huhlig (~huhlig@68.185.86.121) |
| 03:25.18 | huhlig | is there anyway for korganizer to sync with something like yahoo calender? |
| 03:25.22 | Alpha_and_Omega | Poprocks: I dunno bout the 3.3.x release, but I'm sure it will for 3.x |
| 03:25.27 | Alpha_and_Omega | or 4.x |
| 03:25.41 | Poprocks | Alpha_and_Omega: yeah prolly |
| 03:25.48 | lypanov | wtf happened to #gentoo? |
| 03:25.51 | lypanov | its so lame these days |
| 03:25.58 | lypanov | are the ops even devels? |
| 03:26.05 | whappd | lypanov: doubtful. |
| 03:26.05 | Alpha_and_Omega | lypanov: U R l4m3! |
| 03:26.12 | lypanov | whappd: yer. thought as much |
| 03:26.13 | whappd | #gentoo does suck, though |
| 03:26.17 | Alpha_and_Omega | U l4m3R U |
| 03:26.17 | lypanov | calling me a freeloader |
| 03:26.28 | whappd | oh, this i gotta see |
| 03:26.32 | lypanov | i've written crap loads more code than the 1337 ops in that chan |
| 03:26.39 | lypanov | even for gen2 probably hehe |
| 03:26.53 | Alpha_and_Omega | heh |
| 03:27.24 | *** join/#kde lrathbon (~logan@CPE7ed9415afb2c-CM014210012128.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 03:27.56 | lypanov | no |
| 03:27.59 | lypanov | total crap anyways |
| 03:29.10 | whappd | >.> |
| 03:29.12 | whappd | <.< |
| 03:29.21 | Poprocks | that's weird.. I didn't have colour in IRSSI when I was using konsole |
| 03:29.26 | Poprocks | but I had colour in regular bash |
| 03:29.38 | *** join/#kde sparkersiaaass (~rit@adsl-64-216-107-16.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) |
| 03:29.50 | somekool | Poprocks konsole -ls |
| 03:30.10 | Poprocks | somekool: same difference |
| 03:30.13 | sparkersiaaass | i don't don't have system sounds anymore in kde, but aplay blah.wav works fine. can anyone point me in the right direction? |
| 03:30.34 | Poprocks | eh whatever I want to try konversation anyway |
| 03:30.48 | Poprocks | whappd: who's using gentoo? |
| 03:30.48 | The3_14ed|er | sparkersiaaass: did you just update to 3.3? |
| 03:30.59 | Poprocks | oh in #gentoo? |
| 03:31.03 | whappd | Poprocks: i am, but i'm laughing at a moron there |
| 03:31.04 | whappd | yeah |
| 03:31.13 | sparkersiaaass | The3_14ed|er: nope, 3.2.3 |
| 03:31.47 | Poprocks | whappd: what's his name |
| 03:32.23 | whappd | it was nightgrave, being slightly idiotic. he's not really a moron, but i'm in a piss-poor mood, so i'm lashing out :P |
| 03:32.24 | Poprocks | nightgrave? |
| 03:32.29 | sparkersiaaass | The3_14ed|er: # artsd |
| 03:32.30 | sparkersiaaass | ALSA lib pcm_hw.c:549:(snd_pcm_hw_start) SNDRV_PCM_IOCTL_START failed: Broken pipe |
| 03:32.35 | sparkersiaaass | any ideas? |
| 03:33.07 | The3_14ed|er | sparkersiaaass: in ~/.kde/share/config rename knotifyrc and knotify.eventsrc |
| 03:33.10 | The3_14ed|er | hrm |
| 03:34.10 | The3_14ed|er | and they should be replaced the next time you start KDE |
| 03:34.17 | The3_14ed|er | that might work |
| 03:34.57 | Alpha_and_Omega | sparkersiaaass: ll ~/.kde/share/config/knotify* |
| 03:35.17 | Alpha_and_Omega | oh |
| 03:35.31 | Alpha_and_Omega | The3_14ed|er: already pointed out the prob |
| 03:35.58 | sparkersiaaass | so those artsd messages are related to the prob? |
| 03:36.12 | *** join/#kde AssociateX (~SouthBoun@24-117-130-246.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 03:36.14 | The3_14ed|er | dunno |
| 03:36.28 | The3_14ed|er | Alpha_and_Omega: any luck figuring out the pronunciation? |
| 03:36.32 | Alpha_and_Omega | sparkersiaaass: i see them and artsd works |
| 03:36.46 | sparkersiaaass | Alpha_and_Omega: ok |
| 03:37.04 | The3_14ed|er | hint: The π-ed |er |
| 03:37.16 | Alpha_and_Omega | The3_14ed|er: The π-ed |er |
| 03:37.44 | The3_14ed|er | spell it out with only letters |
| 03:37.53 | The3_14ed|er | english letters |
| 03:37.57 | whappd | the piedler |
| 03:38.01 | The3_14ed|er | nope |
| 03:38.04 | Alpha_and_Omega | the needler |
| 03:38.06 | whappd | oh. |
| 03:38.09 | whappd | pied piper. |
| 03:38.12 | The3_14ed|er | nope |
| 03:38.13 | Alpha_and_Omega | lol |
| 03:38.13 | The3_14ed|er | yes! |
| 03:38.57 | whappd | ehh, you can keep your rocketcash |
| 03:38.59 | whappd | or whatever the hell that is |
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| 03:39.08 | whappd | planet points? |
| 03:39.09 | whappd | something like that. |
| 03:39.16 | whappd | yay, netsplit |
| 03:39.17 | The3_14ed|er | well, I said, "and points to anyone who can correctly pronounce this nick" |
| 03:39.34 | The3_14ed|er | pi+ed |
| 03:39.45 | whappd | Alpha_and_Omega: 3.14 = ~pi. + ed. |
| 03:39.51 | The3_14ed|er | really bad math pun |
| 03:40.02 | Alpha_and_Omega | there is no point... |
| 03:40.22 | *** join/#kde AssociateX (~SouthBoun@24-117-130-246.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 03:40.35 | The3_14ed|er | well, I use the underscore since, afaik, '.' isn't a valid char for IRC nicks |
| 03:40.37 | sparkersiaaass | Alpha_and_Omega: tried what The3_14ed|er suggested and still no system sounds |
| 03:43.40 | Alpha_and_Omega | NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETSPLIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT |