| 00:01:47 | noriko | i have a 3670 |
| 00:01:56 | noriko | everything seems to work fine |
| 00:02:17 | ipasql | you have access to all 64mb ? |
| 00:02:48 | noriko | as far as i know |
| 00:02:53 | noriko | i have 32 in ramfs |
| 00:02:56 | noriko | and 32 ram |
| 00:03:06 | ipasql | sounds about right... hehe |
| 00:03:51 | noriko | i imagine it's adjustable |
| 00:04:00 | noriko | haven't had reason to yet |
| 00:04:17 | ipasql | as soon as I find my serial cable... why's familiar so far behind schedule anyway, sez 0.5 will be released 3 mos. ago... |
| 00:50:28 | sgodsell_nb | is away: bbiaw |
| 02:16:25 | edwardam | is away: bbiab |
| 02:30:41 | edwardam | is back (gone 00:14:16) |
| 02:54:23 | descent | hi!every body. |
| 02:55:01 | descent | I want to use freetype to display fonts in qt-embedded library |
| 02:55:29 | descent | but I must find a function to display bitmap. |
| 02:55:44 | descent | Can someone help me? |
| 02:56:39 | mandor_ | try on handhelds.org |
| 03:03:50 | descent | hi!every body. |
| 03:03:50 | descent | I want to use freetype to display fonts in qt-embedded library, but I must find a function to fraw bitmap. |
| 03:03:50 | descent | Can someone help me? |
| 03:17:15 | sjohnson | is away: getting sinus medicine. |
| 03:39:02 | sgodsell_nb | is away: bbiaw |
| 03:42:26 | sjohnson | is back (gone 00:25:11) |
| 03:44:06 | edwardamZzZzZzZz | is away: Night all |
| 03:50:02 | remmie | hello? |
| 03:51:44 | remmie | has anyone seend this when trying to load the boot loader on an ipag 3150? |
| 03:51:45 | remmie | 00018A80 bytes loaded to C0000400 |
| 03:51:45 | remmie | img_size is too large for region: 00000000 |
| 03:52:36 | remmie | it wont load...... |
| 03:54:02 | remmie | md5 check sum i riht |
| 05:34:05 | sjohnson_zzZz | is away: need sleep |
| 07:50:00 | DragonEagle | is back (gone 09:10:16) |
| 08:53:39 | DragonEagle | is away: rouchen is nicht verboten da |
| 08:58:24 | DragonEagle | is back (gone 00:04:45) |
| 10:25:20 | DragonEagle | is away: need sleep |
| 12:09:20 | edwardamZzZzZzZz | is back (gone 08:25:14) |
| 14:17:38 | buzzub | Hi, can anyone tell me how much of the familiar distribution will fit on my 32MB iPAQ? |
| 14:32:13 | nikos | buzzub: Can you explain a little better what you mean? |
| 14:34:20 | buzzub | How much space will I have left if I install the basics + networking + X given that my iPAQ has 32MB? |
| 14:35:04 | nikos | buzzub: 32MB of what? RAM or ROM? |
| 14:36:02 | buzzub | 32RAM/16ROM |
| 14:40:07 | nikos | buzzub: In this case then the operative quantity is 16MB of FlashROM. This is basically the same for most of us, certainly myself. I'm not sure about v0.5 as it is still in development, but you have roughly 1-2MB free in FlashROM after installing the complete image or installing most of the task packages. Depending on your needs packages may be removable providing more free space. |
| 14:40:12 | | BBrox was last seen on #handhelds.org 1 days, 19 hours, 7 minutes and 4 seconds ago, saying: should get back to do some bbplay coding (or rather some ASM for FFMpeg :-) ) [Mon Sep 10 20:33:08 2001] |
| 14:40:12 | MoD | ibot: seen BBrox |
| 14:49:19 | buzzub | Hmmm.... But I thought when you download programs to wince they are stored in RAM. is it not the same for handheld linux? |
| 14:50:19 | nikos | buzzub: That is not true for the Familiar distribution. We use the FlashROM much like a hard disk drive. |
| 14:50:46 | nikos | buzzub: You can install files in RAM also, but by default, packages are not installed in RAM but in FlashROM. That is configurable by the user however. |
| 15:03:42 | buzzub | Are my socket CF Ethernet card or cabletron PCMCIA 802.11 card likely to be supported on familiar? |
| 15:14:47 | beeblebrox | is away: I'm busy |
| 15:28:57 | sgodsell | What does the accelerometer really do? |
| 15:30:15 | sgodsell | I guess I could look at the h3600_backpaq_accel.c code, but I was hoping someone would answer me, and save me looking at the code ;) |
| 15:31:09 | nikos | sgodsell: Can be used to monitor the angular and rotational position of the ipaq and allow changes in it to be detected and used to do things like play a game or move the mouse pointer. |
| 15:31:45 | sgodsell | nikos is that in all dual sleeves? |
| 15:32:08 | jg | sgodsell: No, it is in our magic research expansion packs... |
| 15:32:22 | sgodsell | Oh man |
| 15:32:34 | sgodsell | So noone really has one then :( |
| 15:32:39 | jg | sgodsell: It gives you the G field reading in two orthogonal axes... |
| 15:32:39 | sgodsell | So no one really has one then :( |
| 15:32:44 | dc | sounds cool :) |
| 15:32:48 | bworth | sgodsell: it can also be used to rotate the screen to the "proper" orientation automatically, depending on how you are holding the ipaq |
| 15:33:05 | sgodsell | I want one |
| 15:33:21 | sgodsell | Please, with sugar on top |
| 15:33:57 | bworth | sgodsell: (which, i might add, Bill Gates was touting a week or two ago as a development from their Microsoft Research lab) |
| 15:34:35 | sgodsell | So when are these things coming out? |
| 15:35:06 | sgodsell | Will they be in the future sleeves? |
| 15:35:47 | sgodsell | I guess you can see that I am really enthusiastic about it ;) |
| 15:35:53 | dc | hehe :) |
| 15:36:20 | sgodsell | Well dc, wouldn't you like one? |
| 15:36:25 | bworth | sgodsell: palm users have created a "dongle" that plugs into the bottom of a palm device, and sends accel. data through serial port. I have a couple sample chips of the device they used for this and hope to develope a similar device for the ipaq. |
| 15:37:36 | bworth | http://bodotill.suburbia.com.au/adxl202/adxl202.html |
| 15:38:13 | mandor | bworth: why don't you use ip over usb instead? |
| 15:38:28 | mandor | you can buy an usb cable for 20$ I think |
| 15:38:37 | mandor | and usb is quite fast |
| 15:39:51 | dc | bworth: tell me if you get hold of a driver :) I'm a bit of an electronics dude. |
| 15:42:47 | sgodsell | dc there is a driver already in the kernel |
| 15:42:49 | bworth | mandor: ipaq is a usb "slave" device, not "master", and as such, really doesn't support usb "peripheral". The "IC" I'm using can be monitored directly from a serial port without the need for additional electronics that would be necessary to implement usb. |
| 15:43:02 | sgodsell | h3600_bacpaq_accel.c |
| 15:44:02 | dc | sgodsell: mmm :) |
| 15:44:21 | mandor | I know this. But what bring your IC? you can't connect any usb slave =) |
| 15:44:53 | bworth | sgodsell: i don't think that i would be able to use the bacpaq driver, though i haven't looked at the source yet. It's my understanding that they use a FPGA in the sleeve to interpret the signals from the "ic" and pass them to the ipaq, though i'm not 100% sure about this. (I don't think they use a serial port to interface) |
| 15:45:48 | dc | nice, I just realised. if you take a sleve apart there's a heap of wasted space, you could stuff a sensor in there :) |
| 15:46:45 | sgodsell | bworth is that what you did? |
| 15:46:55 | sgodsell | stuff it in the wasted space |
| 15:47:09 | sgodsell | Or the dongle |
| 15:50:11 | bworth | i haven't actually built the dongle yet, but i'm planning to have everything in the dongle (just 1 ic, really, and maybe a couple of caps or diodes, are all that's needed) |
| 15:51:34 | dc | yep! |
| 16:01:55 | bworth | you could build the device into the sleeve, but i assume you'd have to use a different interface (and i don't know if there's any interface available in the sleeve connector besides the pcmcia input) so it would be more complicated than serial. I hope to be able to provide do-it-yourself instructions and a driver, when I'm finished. If we could generate enough interest (and applications) maybe we could convince compaq to build them into the sleeves, or se |
| 16:03:06 | mandor | bworth: is the ipaq port a "real" serial port? I'd like to have an i/o card plugged here in order to move a small robot (and to make my coffee=) ) |
| 16:05:28 | nikos | mandor: http://handhelds.org/Compaq/iPAQH3600/index.html |
| 16:09:19 | bworth | sgodsell: here's a page describing compaq's "rock 'n' scroll" interface, with links to the video clips i mentioned |
| 16:09:31 | edwardam | nikos: is there an editor in the fam .5 root image ? |
| 16:09:52 | nikos | edwardam: I'm behind, I've made no attempt to load or examine v0.5. Sorry. |
| 16:09:59 | DragonEagle | is back (gone 05:44:38) |
| 16:12:18 | bworth | oops, i guess i should include the link (duh) http://www.research.compaq.com/wrl/projects/RocknScroll/RocknS.html |
| 16:14:36 | dc | bworth: rock 'n' scroll? |
| 16:15:01 | nikos | Tangent: Hello! Long time no see. How are you? |
| 16:15:13 | Tangent | nikos : Hi there |
| 16:15:32 | Tangent | Just hopped on breifly to retreive my email via modem... Still don't have my DSL line yet |
| 16:16:22 | nikos | Tangent: Like your new home? |
| 16:16:32 | Tangent | nikos : Things are going well... I've finished the construction work on my office now, and got my computers in there |
| 16:16:42 | nikos | Tangent: Excellent |
| 16:16:44 | Tangent | nikos : Yeah... new home is cool :) |
| 16:17:08 | kirma | btw, saw quite nice 3d game demo on ipaq a week ago or so... |
| 16:17:19 | Tangent | I'll post some pictures up once I'm moved them from the camera onto a machine |
| 16:17:22 | kirma | full-screen textured 3d stuff |
| 16:17:26 | dc | =) |
| 16:17:27 | mandor | kirma: where? |
| 16:17:36 | mandor | kirma: there's doom by bbrox =) |
| 16:18:10 | Tangent | mandor : Or alternatively, BZFlag got LXDoom running |
| 16:18:10 | kirma | it's a demo by friends' company... dunno more |
| 16:18:36 | bworth | dc: interface developed by compaq wrl (western research lab) for a handheld device with no external input (no buttons, stylus, etc) controlled solely bye tilting and "flicking" the unit. Check out the video links, it's pretty cool. |
| 16:18:37 | mandor | Tangent: I didn't know ... what's the difference between the 2 versions? |
| 16:18:40 | kirma | framerate with a space ship and asteroid looked decent, 10-20 fps |
| 16:19:17 | Tangent | mandor : Virtually nothing... LXDoom seems to run a little better... not faster... just more reliable |
| 16:19:30 | mandor | ok |
| 16:19:36 | bworth | tangent: welcome back! |
| 16:19:42 | Tangent | bworth : Thanks... |
| 16:20:11 | Tangent | Ack.. I just looked at the news page for intimate... No new news since 3rd July... I must've been very slack |
| 16:20:24 | dc | lol |
| 16:21:16 | Tangent | has forgotten what it's like to have an internet conection... Ahhh.. the power :) |
| 16:23:00 | bworth | tangent: #intimate has been DEAD while you were away |
| 16:23:20 | Tangent | bworth : Very very sad... |
| 16:23:34 | Tangent | bworth : Have there been any cool developments on the iPAQ in the last month? |
| 16:25:17 | jg | Tangent: trying to get familiar .5 put to bed... |
| 16:25:23 | jg | Tangent: glad to see you.... |
| 16:25:49 | Tangent | jg : Thanks.. it feels nice to be back in touch with the world. |
| 16:25:53 | jg | Tangent: Jacques has done alot of work on toolchain and rebuiling Intimate using them while you were MIA.... |
| 16:26:09 | jg | Tangent: Nervous about going further without your buy in... |
| 16:26:36 | Tangent | jg : Cool.. good to know that progress is going on... |
| 16:27:02 | Tangent | jg : I need to get my ADSL line installed so that I can spend a few days online, sorting out my life there... |
| 16:27:43 | jg | Tangent: The basic issue is that bleeding is too bleeding... You get a new toolchain 2x/week, whether you need them or not, and you get new glibc's at frequent intervals. The proposal is to back intimate off to stable or testing, and use a known good and tested toolchain.... |
| 16:28:36 | Tangent | jg : Testing sounds good to me... stable was too old for compatibility with some of the familiar bits |
| 16:28:55 | jg | Familiar .5 will have a more up-to-date glibc.... |
| 16:29:28 | jg | (or rather, Familiar .5 alpha has a more up to date, and hopefully compatible with Intimate, glibc). |
| 16:30:32 | jg | The other major issue is that we need to rebuild all our own bits. The compiler you get from Debian compiles for Arm3; exe's are 15% or so bigger than one built properly for StrongARM. |
| 16:30:54 | Tangent | jg: OK.. you've convinced me.. I've just signed the cheque for my ADSL order, and sealed it in the envelope. |
| 16:31:37 | mandrake | Tangent: I take it you're the intimate maintainer? |
| 16:31:39 | jg | Ok, great! I discovered the toolchain problem when I went to rebuild X native on one of our iPAQ's running Intimate.... |
| 16:31:47 | mandrake | Tangent: you should try getting intimate running with 2.4.7 :) |
| 16:32:28 | jg | Tangent: So how's the new house? |
| 16:32:29 | Tangent | mandrake : There's a load of things I need to try at the moment... I've been busy buying a house, and building my new office for a couple of months... |
| 16:32:56 | Tangent | jg : I'm just transferring some pictures of my new office from my camera at the moment... I'll upload them as soon as I can |
| 16:33:22 | mandrake | cool. |
| 16:33:31 | mandrake | I had to go through all that when I moved to pittsburgh, too |
| 16:33:32 | Tangent | jg : New house is very cool... but I suddenly find that I have 1001 different things demanding my attention... e.g. wallpaper for the hallway which is currently bare... etc |
| 16:33:47 | jg | Comes with the territory.... |
| 16:33:48 | mandrake | although I'm going to be moving again hopefully next year |
| 16:34:02 | mandrake | I've decided that instead of a house with lots of rooms, I really want a big loft with only a couple of rooms that are very open |
| 16:34:13 | mandrake | I have too much computer equipment to fit into a standard house. |
| 16:34:54 | Tangent | mandrake : I just build a machine room inside my office... fitted the aircon in there... |
| 16:35:24 | Tangent | mandrake : Keep all the heat and noise away from me |
| 16:35:34 | mandrake | Tangent: I have a machine room also, with a special AC unit |
| 16:35:39 | jg | Tangent: Best thing you can do right now is make Jacques feel he's doing the "right thing", and bless him to continue madly forward.... |
| 16:35:56 | mandrake | but in my actual home office, I have too many displays to fit around a normal desk |
| 16:35:57 | mandrake | looks for a pic of his current setup |
| 16:36:14 | Tangent | jg : He has my blessing.. If he's online within the next 30 mins or so, I'll tell him myself :) |
| 16:37:14 | jg | Tangent: Good. I'll tell him so when he's on next (and I'm on).... The remaining question is stable versus testing.... |
| 16:38:08 | Tangent | jg : I'm afraid that I'm a version junky... |
| 16:38:29 | Tangent | jg : We should probably go with stable for an easy life... but I always want the latest of everything |
| 16:38:40 | Tangent | jg : My inclination is to say Testing |
| 16:39:33 | jg | Tangent: My view is we're trying to push handhelds forward, rather than debian itself... So unstable is clearly inappropriate. But I don't know the differences between stable and testing.... |
| 16:40:14 | cworth | jg: I think we may hit some of the same problems with testing that we do with unstable... |
| 16:41:24 | jg | What we need is the following: 1) a stable build system, and 2) a stable full fledged Linux for those who want/need it for handheld use.... |
| 16:41:29 | Tangent | Has this question been asked to the mailing list? |
| 16:41:55 | Tangent | For a general concenus of opinion? |
| 16:42:09 | jg | Tangent: Not really: we probably should ask.... |
| 16:42:46 | cworth | jg: IIUC, stable is a fixed release, so we can depend on it, (only security updates). unstable is chaos. and testing is unstable with a few sanity checks added, (something like it must compile for all platforms, and has been in unstable for some threshold of time with no critical bugs). |
| 16:42:49 | Tangent | jg : Strikes me as the easy (and blameless) solution... see what everyone wants, and go with it :) |
| 16:44:05 | jg | Tangent: Last I heard, Jacques was building stable from scratch, with new toolchain. |
| 16:44:45 | Tangent | jg : That's really fantastic... Exactly what we need |
| 16:48:46 | jg | Tangent: He was also running the validation tests on a bunch of compiler versions. |
| 16:49:56 | Tangent | jg : He must have some more free time lately.. last time I was around, he was extremely busy with work... Sounds like he's been doing lots and lots of good 'behind-the-scenes' stuff |
| 16:50:26 | jg | Tangent: Yup. |
| 16:52:03 | Tangent | wishes that his camera would transfer images faster |
| 16:53:28 | sjohnson | Tangent! Welcome back. |
| 16:53:37 | Tangent | sjohnson : Thanks |
| 16:53:48 | sjohnson | Tangent: Hows the new house? |
| 16:55:13 | sjohnson | is away: meeting... |
| 16:55:18 | Tangent | sjohnson : I'll show you in just a couple of minutes.... It's nice tho... having a house :) |
| 17:02:39 | Tangent | sjohnson : Here we go... some piccies of the new office being made... (still in progress)... http://ipaq.secret.org.uk/piccies/NewOffice/ |
| 17:02:51 | mandrake | http://mandrake.net/house/images/my_desk.jpg |
| 17:03:03 | mandrake | actually, that has 3 more machines than it does in that shot, too |
| 17:03:14 | mandrake | I need to update my pic |
| 17:03:36 | mandrake | I also really need a place with a workbench |
| 17:03:38 | Tangent | mandrake : Heh.. looks similar to my setup... (Hunts for old pic...) |
| 17:04:23 | bworth | mandrake, Tangent: you guys have the same "U"-shaped desk? |
| 17:04:41 | mandrake | bworth: my desk I built from ikea parts |
| 17:04:42 | Tangent | bworth : Nah.. not the same |
| 17:04:55 | Tangent | Heh.. my desk is ikea too :) |
| 17:05:26 | mandrake | on my desk I have 1 3-headed display, 1 22" flatpanel mac display, 1 10 |
| 17:05:27 | mandrake | ack |
| 17:06:03 | mandrake | on my desk I have 1 3-headed display, 1 22" flatpanel mac display, 1 19" windows display, my laptop/ipaq, and 1 server status display |
| 17:06:18 | Tangent | mandrake : Check out http://ipaq.secret.org.uk/piccies/NewOffice/10.jpg ... That was at my old house |
| 17:06:39 | mandrake | my desk is kinda cramped |
| 17:06:48 | mandrake | even though I built this one to almost completely surround me |
| 17:07:29 | Tangent | mandrake : My desk was kinds cramped.. that's why I made the machine room... moved all the boxes in there... and a couple of screens... and have all the important stuff on the desk.. with none of the clutter |
| 17:07:31 | mandrake | Tangent: are you still copying it up? |
| 17:07:49 | mandrake | or is this jpg just broken? |
| 17:08:03 | Tangent | mandrake : Just resending it... I think I must've killed the FTP before it finished... |
| 17:08:06 | mandrake | Premature end of JPEG file |
| 17:08:19 | Tangent | mandrake : Try now |
| 17:08:46 | mandrake | better |
| 17:09:09 | mandrake | I really need to set up my office at home for optimal working |
| 17:09:23 | Tangent | mandrake : There were another two machines behind me when I took that photo |
| 17:09:37 | mandrake | I need to transition some boxes to the other side of my room |
| 17:10:00 | Tangent | mandrake : I just wanted an office where I could use the phone without people complaining about the noise |
| 17:10:41 | mandrake | http://mandrake.net/house/images/server_room.jpg - my server room before I set up machines |
| 17:11:36 | mandrake | http://mandrake.net/house/images/server_closet.jpg - another angle |
| 17:11:57 | Tangent | mandrake : Haha... you are obviously just as sad and obsessive as me ;) |
| 17:12:15 | dc | mandrake: hehe! |
| 17:12:26 | mandrake | yeah, I've got 3 sparcs I never turn on |
| 17:12:30 | mandrake | an indy I've never even set up |
| 17:12:45 | mandrake | an alpha whose disk I haven't replaced since the power surge fried it |
| 17:12:52 | mandrake | a netwinder (those are fun) |
| 17:12:53 | dc | lol. |
| 17:13:08 | Tangent | Anyhow... I've got to free up this phone line now for a bit, so my GF's mum can phone her... I'll be back online in about four or five hours time... |
| 17:13:17 | Tangent | Catch you later if you're still around |
| 17:13:23 | mandrake | later |
| 17:13:49 | dc | mandrake: is there any easy way to emulate an iPaq on linux.. |
| 17:13:59 | dc | just by running a small res X server? |
| 17:14:00 | dc | heh |
| 17:21:12 | dc | grr... |
| 17:21:14 | dc | n/m |
| 17:21:16 | dc | lol |
| 17:21:19 | dc | later. |
| 17:24:04 | nikos | is away: Errand |
| 17:29:26 | DragonEagle | is away: bbi10 |
| 17:50:21 | DragonEagle | is back (gone 00:20:55) |
| 17:58:12 | sjohnson | is back (gone 01:02:59) |
| 18:05:49 | nikos | is back |
| 21:03:54 | sgodsell | is away: bbiaw |
| 21:04:15 | DragonEagle | is away: need food |
| 21:08:42 | sj_work | is away: headed for home. BBIAW |
| 21:13:18 | pattieja | is away: bible study |
| 23:22:23 | noriko | if someone assaults you twice over a period of time, and they're much larger then you, can you use a weapon to defend yourself on the third time? |
| 23:28:38 | ban_ | define weapon |
