| 00:31:20 | Nermal | lo |
| 03:22:17 | sjohnson | is back (gone 03:42:57) |
| 03:22:45 | | DW: Portland, Portland International Airport, OR, United States; (KPDX) 45-35-27N 122-36-01W 7M; last updated: Jul 08, 2001 10:55 PM EDT; Dew Point: 60.1 F (15.6 C); Pressure (altimeter): 30.03 in. Hg (1016 hPa); Pressure tendency: 0.01 inches (0.5 hPa) lower than three hours ago; Relative Humidity: 49%; Sky conditions: clear; Temperature: 81.0 F (27.2 C); Visibility: 10 mile(s); Weather: Haze; Wind: from the NNW (340 degrees) at 5 MPH (5 KT) |
| 03:22:45 | DW | ibot: weather KPDX |
| 03:23:13 | DW | thought so |
| 03:23:44 | DW | just got done edging and mowing :) |
| 03:24:27 | DW | it's gonna be a warm muggy night -- I sure wish we had a/c :\ |
| 03:30:58 | | jacquesZzZz: San Jose, San Jose International Airport, CA, United States; (KSJC) 37-21-33N 121-55-27W 25M; last updated: Jul 08, 2001 10:53 PM EDT; Dew Point: 55.9 F (13.3 C); Pressure (altimeter): 30.02 in. Hg (1016 hPa); Pressure tendency: 0.01 inches (0.4 hPa) higher than three hours ago; Relative Humidity: 65%; Sky conditions: partly cloudy; Temperature: 68.0 F (20.0 C); Visibility: 10 mile(s); Weather: Haze; Wind: from the NW (310 degrees) at 10 MPH (9 KT) |
| 03:30:58 | jacquesZzZz | ibot: weather ksjc |
| 04:37:08 | pkomarek2 | What is the device name (/dev/....) for the, er, docking port at the bottom of the ipaq where your cradle or serial cable connects? |
| 04:38:52 | jacquesZzZz | pkomarek2: you mean the serial port? |
| 04:41:00 | pkomarek2 | jacquesZzZz: is it always a serial port, even if you have a usb cable attached? |
| 04:42:26 | jacquesZzZz | pkomarek2: nope |
| 04:43:13 | jacquesZzZz | pkomarek2: if you are using usb and usbnet, it's the usbf device, otherwise it would depend on the driver |
| 04:44:26 | pkomarek2 | jacquesZzZz: okay, so if I'm trying to use the ipaq as a serial console for another computer, I should tell minicom on the ipaq to look at /dev/ttyS0 -- is that correct (BTW, hello again and thanks again!) |
| 04:45:18 | jacquesZzZz | pkomarek2: that's correct, if you are using devfs, it would be /dev/tts/0 but even then there should be a ttyS0 symlink |
| 04:46:27 | jacquesZzZz | pkomarek2: oops that may be wrong |
| 04:46:37 | jacquesZzZz | pkomarek2: you should try /dev/ttySA0 |
| 04:51:50 | pkomarek2 | jacquesZzZz: still no luck, but I'll get it eventually -- are there any limitations on flow control for the ipaq? |
| 04:54:12 | slowcoder | Minicom on the ipaq? Are there ipkg's for that ? |
| 04:56:20 | jacquesZzZz | pkomarek2: yeah - the ipaq serial port cannot do hardware flow control - lines just aren't there (so I hear) |
| 05:01:12 | pkomarek2 | slowcoder: I have made a little ipkg for it. BUT it's not really set up right--minicom doesn't handle < 80 columns properly. If you're interested, let me know. I'm thinking of cutting the "fat" out of minicom. Of course I would use the name "microcom" if I do this. ;-) |
| 05:01:40 | jacquesZzZz | pkomarek2: why not use the itsy fonts like intimate does? |
| 05:01:58 | jacquesZzZz | pkomarek2: then you can get 80x35 or some such in landscape mode |
| 05:02:00 | slowcoder | pkomarek2: Ok |
| 05:02:07 | pkomarek2 | jacquesZzZz: aha, I was using hardware flow control. |
| 05:03:00 | pkomarek2 | jacquesZzZz: I haven't messed with the fonts yet, but the smallest I've found so far was 5x7. Also, I'm not running landscape right now (maybe I should) |
| 05:04:34 | jacquesZzZz | pkomarek2: here are the itsy fonts: |
| 05:04:35 | jacquesZzZz | itsy4x6 |
| 05:04:35 | jacquesZzZz | itsy4x7 |
| 05:04:35 | jacquesZzZz | itsy4x8 |
| 05:06:26 | slowcoder | Hmm.. I had a font on my Palm which was 3x4.. And it actually worked.. Not perfect, but it was definitly useable.. |
| 05:07:04 | jacquesZzZz | slowcoder: heh, I'd like to see you read that on the ipaq screen (much smaller pixels) |
| 05:08:18 | pkomarek2 | jacquesZzZz: thanks much -- unfortunately I'm only able to play with the ipaq between rebooting a broken machine (Alpha) right now. Bad hard drive. |
| 05:10:04 | slowcoder | jacquesZzZz: Right.. Didn't think of that.. :) |
| 05:10:14 | pkomarek2 | jacquesZzZz: incidently, it's one of the machines I'd like to use the ipaq on as a serial console. Don't know whether it's interesting, but some of the new IBM PPC workstations have some kind of irda port on the front to allow this. |
| 05:11:55 | jacquesZzZz | pkomarek2: that *is* intersting |
| 05:13:20 | pkomarek2 | jacquesZzZz: they advertise using the palms as an example, but tag on "and other handhelds" or something similar. This solution is much better than fiddling in the back of your cabinet, trying to find the right serial port on the right machine. |
| 05:13:51 | jacquesZzZz | pkomarek2: hmm, do the palms have real irda? |
| 05:13:59 | slowcoder | pkomarek2: Kool.. I can really see the use for that at work.. |
| 05:14:10 | slowcoder | pkomarek2: 200+ *NIX boxes.. |
| 05:14:21 | slowcoder | jacquesZzZz: Jupp.. IrComm at least. |
| 05:15:50 | jacquesZzZz | slowcoder: well then anything the palm can do, the ipaq can do better |
| 05:16:21 | pkomarek2 | jacquesZzZz: =-) but we knew that already (#ipaq) |
| 05:16:36 | jacquesZzZz | heh |
| 05:19:46 | slowcoder | jacquesZzZz: Hmmm.. Most of the things.. The character recon on the Palm is awesome. |
| 05:20:16 | pkomarek2 | jacquesZzZz: mgetty manpage (I'm using mgetty on the Alpha's serial ports) says to change the flow control, you have to recompile. At least they put that in the BUGS section... |
| 05:20:29 | jacquesZzZz | pkomarek2: ugh |
| 05:20:50 | jacquesZzZz | pkomarek2: you could always get a CF serial adaptor |
| 05:21:01 | jacquesZzZz | those can do real flow control |
| 05:22:17 | pkomarek2 | jacquesZzZz: ah, that's good to know. I just bought a cf sleeve today, because I wanted it for memory (I've got a cf-based digital camera). However, I thought I'd wait for the dual pcmcia sleeve and buy pcmcia cards instead -- it seems that they're cheaper, but I haven't looked closely. Any advice? |
| 05:23:39 | slowcoder | pkomarek2: If anything, they are easier to come by.. |
| 05:24:37 | pkomarek2 | I suppose they already have the economy-of-scale. But what are the advantages of CF cards? |
| 05:26:26 | jacquesZzZz | just size |
| 05:26:33 | jacquesZzZz | sometimes power usage |
| 05:27:31 | slowcoder | pkomarek2: And (as you mentioned) interoperability with cameras and such... |
| 05:27:58 | slowcoder | pkomarek2: Note though: There are (quite cheap as well) CF->PCMCIA adapters on the market.. |
| 05:28:39 | pkomarek2 | slowcoder: heh, I don't think I'm going to use my Kodak DC-260 as a serial console -- I'd have to use the paddle to select characters from lists... |
| 05:29:20 | slowcoder | pkomarek2: Huh?? I was referering to using the cameras CF-cards and such.. |
| 05:29:45 | pkomarek2 | slowcoder: I was joking =-) |
| 05:33:31 | pkomarek2 | slowcoder: I bought the cf sleeve mainly for memory, because I wanted to get started on my "latex-on-ipaq" project. I don't know if I'll use the debian latex (probably tetex?), or port an old package called "emtex". |
| 05:35:09 | jacquesZzZz | pkomarek2: you are sick |
| 05:36:27 | pkomarek2 | jacquesZzZz: I'm a grad student, and the thesis is looming. This is better than actually writing the thesis! ;-) |
| 05:36:41 | slowcoder | (Says the guy who ran bochs on his ipaq.....) |
| 05:39:53 | jacquesZzZz | slowcoder: touche |
| 05:47:26 | pkomarek2 | heh. Anybody run a palm emulator on the ipaq? I saw a journalist suggesting this... |
| 05:48:14 | jacquesZzZz | pkomarek2: that's FAQ # 3 |
| 05:48:36 | jacquesZzZz | pkomarek2: many ppl have tried to get POSE to run. but they all hit byte alignment problems |
| 05:49:23 | pkomarek2 | jacquesZzZz: sounds like a new challenge...but not for me. I actually chose the ipaq for python and latex support (knowing I'd have to do the latex myself). |
| 05:49:30 | slowcoder | jacquesZzZz: In what?? The MC68emul or somehing else ? |
| 05:50:45 | jacquesZzZz | slowcoder: they were just trying to port POSE which is a palm emulator for x86 unix, to ARM arch |
| 05:51:14 | slowcoder | jacquesZzZz: I know _exactly_ what POSE is.. I've done a lot of work on the Palm and POSE.. |
| 05:52:27 | jacquesZzZz | slowcoder: ah, OK, well they could get it to compile, and some even tore out a lot of the UI stuff to save space, but it would always crash when trying to load the ROM files |
| 05:53:32 | slowcoder | jacquesZzZz: Hmm.. But the data-types has the same size as on x86, r8?? Short = 16, int = 32 ? |
| 05:54:33 | jacquesZzZz | slowcoder: ppl seemed to think it was data type alignment issues, which *are* differnt from x86 |
| 05:54:51 | pkomarek2 | jacquesZzZz: did you actually succeed with bochs? do you see where I'm going with this? |
| 05:55:24 | slowcoder | jacquesZzZz: So, the problem is poorly written code, not incompatible code.. It just happends to work on x86... Cute.. |
| 05:55:41 | jacquesZzZz | slowcoder: yes, I think that is the problem - nonportable code |
| 05:56:00 | jacquesZzZz | pkomarek2: problem with bochs is that it can only emulate vga display |
| 05:56:20 | jacquesZzZz | pkomarek2: I was running it in text mode because ipaq screen is too small for vga |
| 05:56:39 | slowcoder | jacquesZzZz: Hmm.. Anyone in this channel which have looked into it further ? |
| 05:56:41 | pkomarek2 | jacquesZzZz: okay. I suppose POS |
| 05:56:45 | jacquesZzZz | pkomarek2: if only bochs could emulate ega or something, it would be SO cool on the ipaq |
| 05:57:16 | pkomarek2 | jacquesZzZz: doh. I was writing I suppose POSE assumed some sort of svga for output? Though I can't think of why it would. |
| 05:57:18 | jacquesZzZz | slowcoder: most of the ipaq "big guns" looked at it at onel point or another, I doubt any of them are awake right now tho |
| 05:58:14 | jacquesZzZz | slowcoder: if you look way back in the *non-searchable* ipaq list archives, you will see lots of posts about it |
| 05:58:49 | slowcoder | jacquesZzZz: Hmmm... |
| 05:59:24 | jacquesZzZz | slowcoder: actually, with the new alignment fixups in the kernel.... |
| 05:59:46 | slowcoder | jacquesZzZz: And I guess people ahve tried copilot?? (Predecessor to POSE) |
| 06:00:41 | jacquesZzZz | slowcoder: I dunno about that. for some reason it was never discussed much. |
| 06:00:56 | jacquesZzZz | maybe it's even less portable. i wish I remembered |
| 06:01:31 | jacquesZzZz | slowcoder: POSE on ipaq would be a killer app tho |
| 06:01:57 | pkomarek2 | you know it's a rough night when, at 3am, you find yourself saying "crap, what'd I cut myself on, and did I dribble any blood on the motherboard?" |
| 06:02:03 | jacquesZzZz | slowcoder: hmm, there might be a wikki page on it - I'm gonna look |
| 06:02:44 | jacquesZzZz | http://handhelds.org/z/wiki/PoseOnIPAQ |
| 06:04:31 | jacquesZzZz | oh crap, it's in C++ |
| 06:05:45 | slowcoder | jacquesZzZz: Jup... And not exactly the prettiest piece of code I've laid eyes on either... |
| 06:06:11 | jacquesZzZz | slowcoder: did you look at that wikki page? |
| 06:06:22 | slowcoder | jacquesZzZz: Jup |
| 06:06:35 | slowcoder | jacquesZzZz: Is UAE running on the ipaq ? |
| 06:06:56 | jacquesZzZz | slowcoder: what's that? |
| 06:07:30 | slowcoder | jacquesZzZz: Amiga emulator... The MC68K CPU-emulation for Copilot/POSE is from UAE |
| 06:07:55 | jacquesZzZz | slowcoder: hmmm, I think I was going to try building that, and then forgot |
| 06:08:31 | jacquesZzZz | slowcoder: I was on an emu kick - gnuboy, bochs, snes, xmame |
| 06:08:31 | slowcoder | jacquesZzZz: I would suspect that the data-alignment problem lies in the CPU-emulation... |
| 06:08:46 | jacquesZzZz | slowcoder: I was afraid it was in the ROM |
| 06:09:26 | slowcoder | jacquesZzZz: Copilot forked of the MC68K code from UAE, and I don't think they have kept it updated.. Maybe if someone were to "update" the code in POSE to include the latest from UAE.. |
| 06:09:56 | slowcoder | jacquesZzZz: The ROM is entirely MC68K code.. Which runs on the Palm.. I'm positive that the ROM isn't the problem.. |
| 06:10:39 | jacquesZzZz | slowcoder: that's very good to hear |
| 06:13:33 | jacquesZzZz | slowcoder: I have seen another MC68k emulator on freshmeat recently |
| 06:13:39 | jacquesZzZz | slowcoder: it looked pretty good |
| 06:14:40 | jacquesZzZz | damn, the skins are twice as big as the source |
| 06:16:27 | slowcoder | jacquesZzZz: That's a file containg skins for every Palm-model ever... You'll only need one.. :) |
| 06:16:55 | slowcoder | jacquesZzZz: You trying to install POSE ? |
| 06:16:57 | jacquesZzZz | slowcoder: or, on the ipaq, none |
| 06:17:02 | jacquesZzZz | slowcoder: im bored |
| 06:17:42 | jacquesZzZz | slowcoder: i hope I can find my rom file - otherwise I will have to wait unti lI get batteries |
| 06:18:48 | slowcoder | jacquesZzZz: Should I send you mine ? Palm-OS 3.5 from a Vx |
| 06:19:20 | jacquesZzZz | slowcoder: thanks but I don't think that's necessary, I have mine somewhere |
| 06:39:18 | slowcoder | jacquesZzZz: Gaah.. XCopilot doesn't support Grayscale.. which my ROM requires.. |
| 06:41:46 | jacquesZzZz | slowcoder: hmg, probably one reason ppl moved to POSE |
| 06:46:16 | jacquesZzZz | wow, pose has coms a long way from xcopilot |
| 06:47:12 | jacquesZzZz | now to find that dang rom file |
| 06:52:01 | jacquesZzZz | crap |
| 06:52:04 | jacquesZzZz | something's wrong |
| 06:52:12 | jacquesZzZz | none of the settings menu items work |
| 06:55:39 | jacquesZzZz | I found a rom image I had but POSE tells me it has a bad checksum and then crashes |
| 06:56:05 | jacquesZzZz | if I can find my rechargable batts I can download a new one |
| 07:35:12 | ToyKeeper | http://www.xyzz.org/tmp/ipaq/scooby.png |
| 07:37:16 | sosman | is anyone in there? |
| 07:37:46 | slowcoder | Yup |
| 07:37:59 | ToyKeeper | :) |
| 07:38:10 | sosman | more importantly, is there any beer in the fridge? |
| 07:40:08 | sosman | Now maybe I can make this iPAQ work like a peltier device to keep the tinnies cold. |
| 07:40:37 | ToyKeeper | http://www.xyzz.org/tmp/ipaq/gen-an.png |
| 07:43:35 | sosman | so I take it there is a way to change the background image? |
| 07:43:54 | ToyKeeper | Yup. |
| 07:43:59 | ToyKeeper | qiv |
| 07:44:05 | ToyKeeper | (plus "bkgd" to make it easier) |
| 08:02:07 | sosman | So qiv.1 isn't the man page for qiv then... |
| 08:05:32 | d00d | hello |
| 08:05:45 | d00d | anyone has ever compiled a kernel for the iPAQ? |
| 08:07:12 | ToyKeeper | ipk's usually don't have documentation... |
| 08:09:23 | sosman | So I have to read "the one true documentation"? |
| 08:09:55 | sosman | I found qiv in the packages but I have searched all over for bkgd with no luck. |
| 08:11:44 | ToyKeeper | bkgd is in the unstable feed. |
| 08:11:53 | | unstable feed is at http://familiar.handhelds.org/familiar/feeds/unstable/packages/armv4l/ |
| 08:11:53 | ToyKeeper | ibot: unstable feed? |
| 08:13:36 | ToyKeeper | http://www.xyzz.org/tmp/ipaq/scooby.png <-- my current favorite background.. :) |
| 08:15:24 | ToyKeeper | bkgd includes documentation. Just run it after installing, and it'll explain how to set it up. The qiv docs are pretty much just "qiv -h". |
| 08:16:45 | ToyKeeper | Not like you'll ever actually see the background on a screen that small.. :) |
| 10:22:42 | sosman | I am getting: "USB device not accepting new address=20 (error=-110)" under some conditions. |
| 14:33:07 | ipaq_fan | Hello ipaq people |
| 14:36:31 | nikos | Hi |
| 14:39:30 | nikos | is away: Errands |
| 15:17:12 | sjohnson | is away: lunch |
| 15:20:13 | nikos | is back |
| 17:19:36 | sjohnson | is away: I'm busy. |
| 17:19:46 | sjohnson | is back (gone 00:00:03) |
| 17:53:00 | pkomarek | Does the ipaq get "real slow" just before the batteries die? |
| 17:53:33 | pkomarek | Followup question -- if the batteries die, should this corrupt any files? |
| 17:54:53 | pkomarek | Explanation -- my ipaq got real slow last night, and afterwards sshd would segfault. After comparing md5sums for every library sshd uses, I found that libssl's libcrypto.so.0.9.5 was corrupted. After replacing the corrupt library, things work again. |
| 18:06:39 | pkomarek | What can cause corruption of file in /usr/lib? Batteries dying? |
| 18:08:21 | nikos | pkomarek: No I don't believe that. |
| 18:08:49 | nikos | pkomarek: I could believe that if you attempted to read the file in a low battery situation, the returned data could be corrupted. |
| 18:09:11 | nikos | pkomarek: Or if you attempted to write to the file in a low memory situation, then the file could be corrupted. |
| 18:09:28 | nikos | pkomarek: But power status cannot effect the contents of flashrom. |
| 18:09:36 | nikos | s/effect/affect/ |
| 18:09:44 | pkomarek | nikos: I ask because last night my ipaq got real slow after a lot of use (battery low/dying?), and this morning it had recharged, but libcrypto was corrupted |
| 18:10:10 | nikos | pkomarek: I'm not sure about the slowness, but I can't see the file being corrupted simply due to low power. |
| 18:10:30 | pkomarek | nikos: This is already better than /. -- people know the difference between "affect" and "effect" |
| 18:10:36 | nikos | :) |
| 18:10:48 | pkomarek | nikos: I assumed the slowness was due to a dying battery |
| 18:10:56 | nikos | pkomarek: You might want to send email to the ipaq@ list with an inquiry. See if someone has a different opinion. |
| 18:11:25 | nikos | pkomarek: I don't really see that either. The only thing I can think is that you were blocking waiting for some sort of IO or memory access that was affected by the low power status. |
| 18:12:19 | pkomarek | nikos: hmm. I'll write to the list. I've only had the machine since Friday afternoon, so I don't have a good sense for it yet. |
| 18:30:05 | pkomarek | nikos: BTW, thanks! |
| 18:30:11 | nikos | pkomarek: Sure. |
| 18:45:12 | Nermal | lo BBrox :) |
| 18:46:17 | BBrox | 'lo Nermal :-) |
| 19:58:59 | ingi_goinghome | is there anyway that you can replace the rom on the ipaq with a flashable eeprom? |
| 19:59:11 | BBrox | ROM ? |
| 19:59:14 | BBrox | There is no ROM on the iPAQ |
| 19:59:18 | ingenite | no rom? |
| 19:59:25 | nikos | ingenite: The iPAQ uses flashROM. |
| 19:59:27 | BBrox | I's FLASH memory |
| 19:59:30 | ingenite | it is? |
| 19:59:31 | ingenite | oh |
| 19:59:33 | nikos | Yes. |
| 19:59:47 | nikos | That's one of the major reasons Linux is moving so fast on that device. |
| 20:00:14 | ingenite | do the newer cassiopeias use flash roms as well? |
| 20:02:00 | ingenite | or can you only run linux off the compact flash cards on it |
| 20:03:10 | nikos | This is #ipaq. ;) |
| 20:04:18 | nikos | ingenite: Questions about other hardware are better directed to #handhelds.org. |
| 20:04:20 | Nermal | I have heard due to their square, bricklike design, cassiopeias make excellent ice scrapers :) |
| 20:09:01 | ingenite | lol |
| 20:09:11 | ingenite | ok nikos sorry about that |
| 20:09:22 | nikos | No biggy. ;) |
| 20:52:13 | d00d | hello |
| 20:54:14 | d00d | how can i extract files from a .ipk in a Debian x86 box? |
| 21:01:27 | pkomarek | d00d: an .ipk file is just a gzip'd tar archive: tar -zxvf file.ipk. Similarly for .debs: ar x file.deb. |
| 21:01:58 | pkomarek | d00d: I may be wrong about the ipk itself being gzip'd. If that fails, try tar xvf file.ipk |
| 21:02:45 | nikos | A little late, d00d left 5 minutes ago. ;) |
| 21:02:59 | nikos | He also got that answer on #handhelds.org, but you are indeed correct. |
| 21:03:19 | pkomarek | nikos: doh! |
| 21:13:11 | sjohnson | Hey gang. I've just updated my process viewer/kill python/GTK program. I added a QUIT button and sorting by column. |
| 21:14:01 | sjohnson | You can pick it up at http://monsters.org/ipaq/procview.py |
| 23:22:00 | d00d | jacques_work: no |
| 23:22:09 | d00d | jacques_work: have to do somehting special? |
| 23:22:44 | d00d | 's window manager has gone crazy |
| 23:23:10 | ToyKeeper | I wonder where mallum is.. |
| 23:23:11 | d00d | is trying to keep control of the xchat window |
| 23:23:40 | jacques_work | d00d: in that case I dont know what the problem is, if you had a good root flash and you never tried flashing a kernel larger than 512k and your linuxargs are correct, I don't know what the problem could be |
| 23:24:36 | d00d | jacques_work: could it be that my filesystem is too big? ~13 MB |
| 23:25:12 | jacques_work | d00d: no, if you started it at the right place, it shold be fine |
| 23:25:30 | d00d | how can i know that? |
| 23:27:15 | jacques_work | d00d: I just mean if you did 'flash root' with those partitions defined, it shold be fine |
| 23:27:42 | jacques_work | d00d: did you flash your image before or after kernel? |
| 23:28:00 | d00d | wait a min... |
| 23:31:20 | d00d | i don't remember creating partitions nor running flash root :( |
| 23:32:24 | d00d | i followed the instructions in ftp.hh.org/pub/linux/compaq/ipaq/stable/install.html |
| 23:32:48 | d00d | and then the ones in http://familiar.handhelds.org/familiar/releases/latest/install/H3600/install.html |
| 23:33:18 | d00d | what are the commands to define partitions? |
| 23:36:44 | jacques_work | the commands that start with 'partition' |
| 23:36:56 | jacques_work | nuder setting bootldr's parameters |
| 23:37:08 | jacques_work | BIAW - food |
| 23:37:35 | d00d | bye |
