| 00:16:11 | ToyKeeper | is the happy owner of a brand-new ipaq. |
| 00:16:25 | ToyKeeper | Now I need to figure out how to dump the rom so I can put linux on it. :) |
| 00:16:51 | bvx | 32 or 64MB> |
| 00:17:12 | ToyKeeper | 32MB. 3635. |
| 00:17:31 | sjohnson | is away: Making a food run. |
| 00:18:31 | Nermal | lo Tangent |
| 00:18:38 | Nermal | ToyKeeper: I pasted the url for you |
| 00:18:56 | ToyKeeper | Yes, and I'm reading. :) |
| 00:19:39 | Nermal | you install a prog called "osloader" onto the ce device |
| 00:19:40 | Nermal | run it |
| 00:19:51 | Nermal | choose the options said in the howto :) |
| 00:21:05 | ToyKeeper | :) |
| 00:22:25 | bvx | as I suppose, there must already be a way to sync to linux? |
| 00:26:31 | sjohnson | is back (gone 00:09:00) |
| 00:26:58 | pisymbol | anyone running/installing Linux |
| 00:29:13 | jacques | pisymbol: yep |
| 00:30:39 | pisymbol | how easy is it to screw up the flash permanently |
| 00:30:54 | bvx | is 480x360 feasible like on casio? |
| 00:31:04 | jacques | pisymbol: definte permanently |
| 00:31:09 | pisymbol | can you save an image of CE before install (reading the directions right now) |
| 00:31:34 | pisymbol | as long as I can restore CE if a install fails - I |
| 00:31:37 | pisymbol | I'm happy |
| 00:31:53 | jacques | pisymbol: yes. if you don't follow directions you can screw it up so bad tat you have to send it to CRL |
| 00:32:04 | pisymbol | CRL will restore your iPAQ? |
| 00:32:08 | pisymbol | free? |
| 00:32:18 | bvx | when they find out.. |
| 00:32:28 | jacques | yes - you pay shipping both ways and hve to wait a couple weeks tho |
| 00:32:59 | jacques | they have JTAG equipment and know how to open up ipaq and solder on the right leads |
| 00:34:04 | pisymbol | that sucks - you sound like you've done it before...hmmm |
| 00:34:39 | jacques | nope, but I have seen it happen - almost always ppl didn't follow directions - skipped steps or did them in wrong order |
| 00:34:57 | jacques | the only dangerous part is flashing the bootldr |
| 00:35:15 | ToyKeeper | I'm researching how to do that right now... |
| 00:35:26 | jacques | go slow and follow directions |
| 00:35:29 | ToyKeeper | I'm really anxious to get linux on this ipaq I got about an hour ago. :) |
| 00:35:40 | ToyKeeper | Yes, I plan to be very cautious. |
| 00:35:42 | jacques | if you have a 64MB ipaq, use bootldr 2.14.8 or later |
| 00:35:53 | pisymbol | ToyKeeper: I'm anxious and I have to wait till tomorrow |
| 00:35:58 | ToyKeeper | Hopefully it will be easier than getting my palm rom flashed using romeo. |
| 00:36:02 | jacques | make sure ipaq is plugged into charger and fully charged before flashing bootldr |
| 00:36:06 | pisymbol | 2.14.8+ okay |
| 00:36:22 | pisymbol | yes, that makes sense - the doc seems to stress this |
| 00:36:27 | jacques | if you have a 32MB ipaq, you can use 2.14.5 |
| 00:36:41 | pisymbol | how long is install approx? |
| 00:36:42 | ToyKeeper | I've got a 32MB ipaq. Any advantage to the newer bootloader release? |
| 00:37:14 | jacques | not sure - I don;t have any hard information on changes between 2.14.5 and 2.14.8 |
| 00:37:16 | ToyKeeper | Hmm. Charge light stopped blinking. Does that mean it's full? :{ |
| 00:37:20 | jacques | other than 64MV ipaq support |
| 00:37:25 | jacques | ToyKeeper: yes |
| 00:37:39 | ToyKeeper | Good. Sorry for the silly question. :) |
| 00:37:41 | jacques | pisymbol: install time depends on how much you install |
| 00:37:58 | pisymbol | I'm a little unsure of what you mean |
| 00:38:13 | jacques | pisymbol: for example, familiar has a bootstrap image and a complete image |
| 00:38:18 | pisymbol | ahh |
| 00:38:21 | jacques | bootstrap is about MB and complete is about 12MB |
| 00:38:29 | jacques | bootstrap is about 5MB |
| 00:38:31 | pisymbol | 12MB - what do I get? Everything? |
| 00:38:43 | jacques | not everything, just lots of things :-) |
| 00:38:47 | pisymbol | gcc? |
| 00:38:48 | jacques | bootstrap does not even include X |
| 00:38:54 | ToyKeeper | Oh, man.. Am I going to have to modify this USB cradle to do rs232? |
| 00:39:02 | jacques | no, you can't fit gc and a dev env in 16MB flash |
| 00:39:13 | pisymbol | that |
| 00:39:18 | jacques | ToyKeeper: if you cant get a serial cradle/cable, yes |
| 00:39:30 | ToyKeeper | Ass. |
| 00:39:30 | pisymbol | I ordered a serial cable with it for Linux |
| 00:39:39 | pisymbol | read up a little bit before ordering |
| 00:39:51 | ToyKeeper | (that's "ass" as in "damn", not "ass" as in "you're an ass" :) |
| 00:39:59 | Nermal | giggles |
| 00:40:00 | jacques | ToyKeeper: current bootldr only supports serial |
| 00:40:10 | jacques | ToyKeeper: I figured |
| 00:40:13 | Nermal | yay for uk ipaq coming with serial cradles |
| 00:40:39 | jacques | i had to wait 2 weeks to get a serial cradle |
| 00:40:41 | pisymbol | jacques: can you give a brief explanation of how you installed Linux? |
| 00:40:43 | jacques | after i got my ipaq |
| 00:40:45 | pisymbol | maybe some insigts |
| 00:41:06 | jacques | pisymbol: well, i used a convoluted method because I didn;t want to use windows/activestink |
| 00:41:23 | pisymbol | ahh - any reason why you didn't want to go that route? |
| 00:41:39 | jacques | pisymbol: because I didn't ave a windows machine |
| 00:42:19 | ToyKeeper | I suppose I'll have to boot into windows soon. :( I haven't done that for months. |
| 00:42:21 | pisymbol | good for you |
| 00:42:42 | jacques | pisymbol: yeah, but it *is* more convoluted using only linux for the first part of the bootldr install |
| 00:42:54 | pisymbol | I see (looking over the install) |
| 00:43:05 | pisymbol | I suppose since I DO run 98, I will go the easiest route |
| 00:43:19 | jacques | pisymbol: there are linux-only instructions about someplace |
| 00:43:23 | pisymbol | Again, my goal is to install Linux on my iPAQ (future) correctly |
| 00:43:27 | jacques | pisymbol: yeah, I probably would in your situation too |
| 00:43:56 | pisymbol | any insights after the first part |
| 00:44:50 | pisymbol | ooh yea, are the 3600 instructions model generic? |
| 00:45:01 | pisymbol | concerned about his 3670 |
| 00:45:07 | jacques | pisymbol: not off hand, once you have the bootldr flashed and protected, it's pretty hard t oscrew things up |
| 00:45:32 | jacques | pisymbol: you mean same instructions for 32MB and 64MB models? |
| 00:45:46 | jacques | pisymbol: other than bootldr version, they are the same |
| 00:45:59 | jacques | brb, gotta run outside |
| 00:46:54 | Nermal | any particular reason ? |
| 00:47:46 | pisymbol | after reading the instructions closely - it SEEMS to be an easy process |
| 00:47:52 | Nermal | yah |
| 00:48:00 | pisymbol | I'm a little bit unsure about using the HyperTerminal |
| 00:48:11 | jacques | back |
| 00:48:26 | jacques | my jeep is getting soaked |
| 00:48:29 | jacques | :-( |
| 00:48:39 | pisymbol | its hot and humid in Jersey |
| 00:48:53 | jacques | raining for first time in months in bay area CA |
| 00:50:10 | pisymbol | I'm assuming you used minicom to communicate |
| 00:50:31 | Nermal | yah |
| 00:50:33 | jacques | yes, i like minicom fine |
| 00:50:43 | jacques | hyperterminal makies me itch |
| 00:51:16 | pisymbol | pardon my ignorance, what is minicom for (Linux/WIN)? |
| 00:51:28 | pisymbol | hasn't used a modem in a really long time - RH 4.something |
| 00:52:04 | jacques | minicom is for linux |
| 00:52:06 | ToyKeeper | Hmm. Where are some instructions about modifying the usb cradle? |
| 00:52:30 | pisymbol | http://www.handhelds.org/pipermail/ipaq/2000-Auguest/000061.html |
| 00:52:37 | pisymbol | ^TK |
| 00:52:41 | jacques | ToyKeeper: hmmm, they should be somewhere on the wikki, but I don;t have an exact link |
| 00:53:35 | pisymbol | so how do you start an xmodem download of the boatldr image? |
| 00:54:08 | jacques | pisymbol: you get osloader over to the ipaq on wince |
| 00:54:08 | pisymbol | step 12 is alittle "vague"? |
| 00:54:31 | jacques | pisymbol: it's probably vague because they didn't want to be terminal app specific |
| 00:54:37 | pisymbol | I understand that - but when you get the boot> prompt |
| 00:54:48 | pisymbol | agree, but examples are always nice! :) |
| 00:54:51 | jacques | pisymbol: you do load bootldr |
| 00:54:53 | jacques | pisymbol: ten |
| 00:54:55 | jacques | pisymbol: then |
| 00:55:12 | pisymbol | eagerly waiting |
| 00:55:23 | jacques | pisymbol: ctrl-a, s, down down return, select bootldr file, space, return |
| 00:55:43 | jacques | that's for minicom |
| 00:55:54 | pisymbol | yeah - what's for hyperterminal |
| 00:56:00 | jacques | beats me |
| 00:56:01 | pisymbol | :) |
| 00:56:40 | jacques | there are tons of ppl about who know how to use hyperterminal tho |
| 00:56:48 | jacques | you should also join #handhelds.org |
| 00:57:05 | pisymbol | really? |
| 00:57:18 | Nermal | yah |
| 00:57:19 | pisymbol | I noticed you can send file but there are different protocols - default is Zmodem |
| 00:57:26 | Nermal | use xmodem |
| 00:57:45 | pisymbol | figures |
| 00:58:02 | pisymbol | this is the critical step yes? sending the proper boatldr image file |
| 00:58:38 | Nermal | no |
| 00:58:40 | Nermal | well |
| 00:58:46 | Nermal | if it goes wrong don't worry |
| 00:58:57 | Nermal | the crucial part is erasing the ce bootloader and flashingthe new one |
| 00:59:15 | jacques | crucial step is the reset |
| 00:59:17 | Nermal | if the sending goes wrong, the osloader won;t try and flash it.. |
| 00:59:31 | jacques | making sure things are in order before resetting |
| 00:59:32 | sjohnson | pisymbol: Yes. The flashing the bootldr is the most critical. If it goes wrong you have a brick. |
| 00:59:40 | pisymbol | nice@ |
| 00:59:48 | Nermal | pisymbol: just check all the values after it has flsahed it |
| 00:59:50 | jacques | because nutil you reset, you can keep flashing bootldrs |
| 00:59:51 | Nermal | like in the howto |
| 00:59:51 | pisymbol | hey a $700 brick |
| 00:59:54 | Nermal | if they are all ok |
| 00:59:57 | Nermal | it shoiuld be fine :) |
| 01:00:10 | Nermal | if not.. ffs don't reset it |
| 01:00:13 | pisymbol | yes, I noticed that - so do the memory dumps and check for proper values |
| 01:00:22 | pisymbol | ffs? |
| 01:00:34 | Nermal | for fscks sake ;) |
| 01:00:50 | Nermal | pisymbol: yah.. do the peeks |
| 01:01:03 | pisymbol | of course |
| 01:01:27 | pisymbol | now, once I have flashed the bootldrs I'm in the gold |
| 01:01:46 | pisymbol | I mean with a proper bootldr installed, I can install any flavor of Linux (familar) dist. I want |
| 01:43:40 | ToyKeeper | Does pcmcia stuff work on the ipaq in linux, if you have a pc card sleeve? |
| 01:44:34 | jacques | ToyKeeper: most cards which are supported nuder linux work - but NO cardbus |
| 01:45:08 | ToyKeeper | Just wondering, if I snagged a pc card sleeve and an 802.11 card, if I could use it. :) |
| 01:45:28 | jacques | ToyKeeper: what is the 802.11 card exactly? |
| 01:45:40 | ToyKeeper | Wireless networking. |
| 01:46:02 | jacques | ToyKeeper: i mean what brand and model |
| 01:46:26 | ToyKeeper | Oh, I don't know. anything which works in linux. |
| 01:46:47 | jacques | ToyKeeper: check around here to see what's working before you buy |
| 01:48:16 | ToyKeeper | First I'm just trying to get a serial connection. :) |
| 02:15:25 | Nermal | pisymbol: umm.. you need it to fit in 16mb of rom :| |
| 02:35:03 | sjohnson | is away: shower |
| 02:46:11 | sjohnson | is back (gone 00:11:07) |
| 02:52:41 | | hmmm... hello is any one around? |
| 02:52:41 | Gene | hello? |
| 02:52:55 | sjohnson | Gene: Hello |
| 02:53:10 | Gene | may i ask some question about familiar? |
| 02:53:18 | Gene | thanks, sjohnson |
| 02:53:23 | jacques | certainmount |
| 02:53:28 | sjohnson | go ahead |
| 02:54:01 | Gene | i am writing some modules on 2.4.3, heavily rely on netfilter |
| 02:54:15 | Gene | and i would like to port them to familiar later |
| 02:54:25 | Gene | does familiar has netfilter at all? |
| 02:55:05 | sjohnson | Gene: No. But it could be grabbed from a debia .deb. |
| 02:55:05 | Gene | and i heard that there isn't even mmu for the familiar? |
| 02:55:21 | jacques | Gene: you might have to build your own kernel - not sure if netfilter can be totally modular |
| 02:55:34 | jacques | Gene: no FPU, yes MMU |
| 02:56:12 | Gene | thanks. but what do u mean by "grabbed from debia.deb."? |
| 02:56:18 | Gene | grab the netfilter? |
| 02:57:11 | sjohnson | I might be confused. if netfilter a kenel fire scheme or the control program? |
| 02:57:47 | sjohnson | RE deia.deb. That should have been debian .deb package. |
| 02:57:56 | Gene | it's a framework to do all things about packets handling... |
| 02:58:36 | sjohnson | Gene: Then you will have to build a customized kernel like jacques said. |
| 02:59:13 | sjohnson | The familar kenel isn't compile with any packet filter stuck at all. Nor much use for it for most people. ;> |
| 03:00:16 | Gene | i c... thanks much! i will try |
| 03:00:37 | Gene | so does it has kernel thread? |
| 03:00:52 | Gene | or even userspace? |
| 03:01:16 | sjohnson | Gene: don't understand your question. |
| 03:01:35 | cdm|qnx | Gene: Nah - that is not the LInux way so much. |
| 03:01:56 | Gene | can i use kernel_thread()? |
| 03:01:57 | cdm|qnx | likes "mount -Tio-net /lib/dll/nfm-ipfilter.so" - no need for rebuild of any kernels. |
| 03:02:20 | sjohnson | cdm|qnx: Phfft! |
| 03:02:46 | cdm|qnx | and then I can just do a "slay -f io-net" to disable all of networking - or start two io-net's for debugging. :) |
| 03:03:01 | jacques | heh, :-P |
| 03:03:01 | sjohnson | Gene: Yes. Familar is a full yet slim linux distribution. |
| 03:04:43 | sjohnson | 's iPAQ will eventually will become his mini-laptop computer. |
| 03:05:46 | Gene | so do can i do socket programming there? |
| 03:06:37 | sjohnson | Gene: Yes. Anything you can do from a desktop computer you can do on an iPAQ. |
| 03:07:54 | Gene | so what OS are you guys running in ipaq? |
| 03:08:02 | Gene | WinCE? |
| 03:08:19 | jacques | winces |
| 03:08:31 | sjohnson | Linux 2.4.3 plus patches. And a debian based distribution. |
| 03:08:45 | cdm|qnx | QNX |
| 03:29:20 | | hola, mlp |
| 03:29:20 | mlp | hello |
| 03:30:36 | cdm|qnx | hey mlp |
| 03:30:47 | | bonjour, mlp |
| 03:30:47 | mlp | hello |
| 03:30:48 | mlp | can some body tell me that IPAQ is having Single Instruction Multiple Data (SIMD) support or not ? |
| 03:31:23 | mlp | thanks cdm |
| 05:07:58 | ToyKeeper | It's really difficult to solder 9 wires onto 9 really tightly-packed leads. |
| 05:08:21 | ToyKeeper | I think I'll work on this cradle modification tomorrow, after getting some better tools. |
| 06:36:34 | flush | hi, anyone got ce installed? |
| 06:37:20 | ToyKeeper | Unfortunately. |
| 06:37:24 | ToyKeeper | I haven't been able to get rid of it yet. |
| 07:03:31 | ToyKeeper | Maybe it's a good thing I haven't gotten the OS flashed yet. Once I do, I won't be getting any work done for a *long* time... :) |
| 07:33:08 | ToyKeeper | Night, night. |
| 10:57:32 | erikm | waves hi |
| 11:04:45 | sjohnsonHome | is away: at work |
| 11:49:07 | jbs | Any better linux newbie howto's than Wiki? I can't use RAM as non-volatile storage... |
| 11:51:13 | erikm | jbs: don't need a newbie howto for that. RAM is volatile memory |
| 11:53:11 | jbs | Where do I put my Blackdown JRE, then? |
| 11:53:18 | erikm | jbs: though you might want to check out www.linuxdoc.org and www.linuxnewbie.org |
| 11:53:37 | erikm | jbs: on the jffs2 filesystem |
| 11:53:47 | erikm | jbs: if there is room left, of course |
| 11:54:36 | jbs | erikm: That's kind of the problem... :-/ |
| 11:56:39 | jbs | erikm: From wiki: How do I reboot Linux without losing the contents of /mnt/ramfs?<empty> |
| 12:02:14 | erikm | jbs: answer is simple: move it to the flash filesystem |
| 12:03:17 | erikm | jbs: Q: and what if the flash filesystem is full? A: remove some stuff you don't need |
| 12:05:59 | jbs | erikm: Ok, thanks. What about dualling with CF memory _and_ Ethernet? Is there an adapter available? |
| 12:06:22 | erikm | jbs: afaik compaq now has a dual PCMCIA sleeve |
| 12:07:03 | jbs | erikm: Ok. It's a must-have ;-) |
| 12:13:23 | jbs | Btw: (newbie) Is the serial cable on the cradle treated as an ordinary serial port as far as linux is concerned? |
| 12:13:50 | erikm | jbs: yes. the only difference is that it doesn't have hardware flow control |
| 12:14:37 | jbs | erikm: Is that a problem? (I'll use javax.comm to access it) |
| 12:17:21 | jbs | erikm: Whops. Java-question. I'll give it a try. Thanks. |
| 15:51:17 | sjohnson | is away: lunch |
| 17:02:36 | sjohnson | is back |
| 17:59:39 | sjohnson | is away: dentist appt |
| 18:32:32 | mpakula | is away... brb |
| 20:00:01 | mpakula | nikos: is it possible that I cannot ping laptop form ipaq because of dhcp server ? ( but laptop is default gateway) |
| 20:00:24 | nikos | mpakula: No, dhcp would have nothing to do with that. |
| 20:01:00 | nikos | mpakula: Is the ipaq using DHCP to get its settings? |
| 20:01:59 | mpakula | nikos: i specified ifconfig usbf and route default.... but it just not pinging |
| 20:02:37 | nikos | Let me just very quickly go through the minimum steps necessary to get a one step USB link working: |
| 20:04:16 | nikos | I'm reviewing a moment, just a moment.... |
| 20:05:00 | nikos | 1. Unplug the ipaq either from the cradle, or the USB cable from the system, the ipaq must not be connected via USB. |
| 20:05:16 | nikos | 2. On the ipaq: modprobe usb-eth |
| 20:05:21 | nikos | 3. Connect USB |
| 20:05:52 | nikos | 4. On the ipaq, configure usbf interface like: ifconfig usbf up 10.0.0.2 netmask 255.255.255.0 |
| 20:06:12 | nikos | 5. On the PC: insmod usbnet |
| 20:06:38 | nikos | 6. PC example: ifconfig usb0 up 10.0.0.1 netmask 255.255.255.0 |
| 20:07:05 | nikos | 7. On ipaq: route add default gw 10.0.0.1 |
| 20:07:23 | nikos | At that point, you should be able to communicate between the ipaq and PC, although no further. |
| 20:11:22 | ToyKeeper | nikos: what kernel version does that require? |
| 20:11:37 | nikos | ToyKeeper: On which side? |
| 20:11:48 | ToyKeeper | The PC. usbnet |
| 20:11:57 | nikos | ToyKeeper: 2.4.3 I think. |
| 20:12:03 | | usbnet is at http://handhelds.org/z/wiki/How%20do%20I%20setup%20USB%20networking |
| 20:12:03 | nikos | ibot: usbnet |
| 20:12:15 | ToyKeeper | Looks like I'll be upgrading my kernel next week, then. :) |
| 20:12:27 | nikos | ToyKeeper: See that URL, I think maybe 2.4.2 would work, but you will probably need to compile the module yourself. |
| 20:12:45 | ToyKeeper | First I need to get a serial connection so I can use the bootloader. :) |
| 20:13:34 | ToyKeeper | I've been trying to build one, but the leads are really close together in the cradle. Need better tools. |
| 20:18:20 | mpakula | well looks like it doesn't work, however I had it working ( it might have been when laptop wasn't connected to outside line - I don't see how it may affect anything) |
| 20:18:47 | nikos | mpakula: If you disconnect it you lose the connection and have to start over again. |
| 20:20:39 | mpakula | nikos: I'll try tomorrow to set up usb network with no LAN connection |
| 20:21:12 | nikos | K |
| 20:32:49 | mpakula | nikos: surprise I've disconnected lan set up usb net. and started to ping than I connected back lan and it is still pinging ;-) weird |
| 20:33:27 | nikos | mpakula: Hmm, routing thing I guess. |
| 20:38:21 | mpakula | nikos: just to check I've configured ipaq and laptop again for usb with lan working and it is pinging I'll try to set up usb tomorrow when i start my machine and I'll know whether USB should go before pcmcia ;o) |
| 20:40:39 | mpakula | good night :-O |