| 03:08:09 | jacques | damn, are there any CHEAP ARM platforms??? |
| 03:08:25 | jacques | frikng LARTS are 500 pounds each |
| 03:08:55 | jacques | amazingly the ipaq seems to be the best deal |
| 03:08:59 | jacques | amazing |
| 04:34:13 | jacques | 'lo |
| 04:34:38 | Klaxon | Hullo. |
| 04:35:45 | Klaxon | Is there much going on here t'nite? |
| 04:36:08 | jacques | not really. a bit more going on in #handhelds.org but not much |
| 04:37:27 | Klaxon | I'll hafta check that out. Mostly I'm lurking. I'm interested to see how cool Linux on iPAQ is. |
| 04:38:57 | jacques | Klaxon: it's great for developers right now. still needs a bit of time for end users |
| 04:40:40 | Klaxon | Yeah, pretty clear from handheld.org that it's not there yet for users. Is the X server usable enough? |
| 04:41:16 | jacques | Klaxon: I find it very usable |
| 04:42:39 | Klaxon | Cool! And people run Blackbox for a wm? |
| 04:43:22 | jacques | Klaxon: blackbox, icewm, ion, flwm |
| 04:47:18 | Klaxon | jacques- Which do you prefer? |
| 04:47:46 | Klaxon | Anyway so there is 802.11b support already, that is pretty awesome. Is there a web browser? |
| 04:48:54 | jacques | Klaxon: I like flwm, but I may be the only one :-) I am going to conver to ion |
| 04:49:14 | jacques | Klaxon: there is konqueror floating around somewhere, and dillo |
| 04:51:29 | Klaxon | Konqueror?! Doesn't that require QT? |
| 04:52:33 | waspy | does anyone know how to upload a file to the linux filesys through serial |
| 04:53:13 | jacques | Klaxon: yep |
| 04:53:32 | jacques | waspy: setup a ppp connection or use sz |
| 04:53:58 | waspy | ppp through serial? |
| 04:53:59 | Klaxon | jacques- So you're saying QT runs on it, too? This boggles the mind. |
| 04:55:07 | waspy | from serial on windows |
| 04:55:13 | jacques | Klaxon: yes, QT/E and real QT if you have the storage |
| 04:55:45 | jacques | waspy: I dunno much about windows but you should be able to find a terminal client that supports zmodem transfers |
| 04:55:55 | jacques | waspy: or xmodem |
| 04:56:31 | waspy | isn't the bootloader xmodem method directly to flash no to the filesys? |
| 04:58:59 | Klaxon | jacques- Fascinating. 571k and you've got QT. I'm gonna have to get one of these. |
| 04:59:36 | jacques | waspy: which dist are you running? |
| 04:59:46 | waspy | familiar |
| 04:59:52 | jacques | waspy: familiar 0.4 ? |
| 05:00:22 | jacques | waspy: I wan't talking about bootloader |
| 05:00:35 | waspy | .4 |
| 05:00:41 | jacques | waspy: familiar 0.4 has /usr/bin/rz which can be used to receive zmodem transfers |
| 05:02:06 | waspy | really , let me try |
| 05:02:54 | jacques | Klaxon: check out: http://qpe.sourceforge.net/screenshots/ |
| 05:03:43 | waspy | hey is it normal for, the ipaq to go sleep , when you firsttap the screen? |
| 05:03:44 | Klaxon | jacques- Yeah, I'm on troll.no right now looking at screenshots and README's. |
| 05:04:29 | Klaxon | jacques- The sourceforge site is much more informative. |
| 05:04:33 | jacques | waspy: it's not asleep - just screen blanked |
| 05:04:46 | jacques | waspy: which kernel did you flash? -fam1 or -fam2 ? |
| 05:04:52 | Klaxon | jacques- But you don't run qpe? |
| 05:04:55 | jacques | waspy: I thought that was fixed in -fam2 |
| 05:05:02 | waspy | fam .4 |
| 05:05:18 | jacques | waspy: I am referring to the kernel file name |
| 05:05:39 | jacques | Klaxon: no, I run straight familiar 0.4 and intimate on my microdrive |
| 05:06:01 | waspy | fam 2 |
| 05:06:32 | jacques | waspy: hmm, I really thought that was fixed. there is a workaround but I don't recall it at the moment |
| 05:06:44 | waspy | kernel 2.4.3 |
| 05:07:03 | waspy | it's really messed up man, gotta tap it like 4 times |
| 05:07:28 | jacques | waspy: :-( for some reason I haven't seen that problem, but it does affect some ppl |
| 05:07:53 | waspy | strange, is there a fix |
| 05:08:04 | jacques | waspy: I think so but I don;t remember the details |
| 05:08:38 | waspy | considering reinstalling wince |
| 05:09:34 | jacques | waspy: ok |
| 05:10:01 | waspy | considering, but may be not |
| 05:10:05 | jacques | waspy: if anybody told you linux on the ipaq was perfect, they were lying |
| 05:10:17 | waspy | that alex...LOL |
| 05:10:18 | jacques | waspy: I would only recommend it for developers at this time |
| 05:10:53 | jacques | waspy: though I just read on the ipaq list that a newer kernel should fix the problem |
| 05:11:20 | waspy | k |
| 05:13:09 | jacques | I'm running 2.4.4-rmk3-np1 but it has its own problems |
| 05:13:21 | waspy | like what? |
| 05:13:38 | jacques | ramfs mount not showing up in df |
| 05:22:57 | Klaxon | jacques- Compaq sez, "Recent versions of the IBM Microdrive have exhibited problems in working with the iPAQ Pocket PC." Any problems for you? |
| 05:24:16 | jacques | Klaxon: wow. where did you see that? |
| 05:24:24 | edwardam | Klaxon: ?? Where ??? |
| 05:24:36 | jacques | Klaxon: I got my udrive in november |
| 05:24:58 | Klaxon | http://www.compaq.com/products/handhelds/pocketpc/faq.shtml#a31 |
| 05:25:52 | edwardam | hmmm ... Sounds like a software issue ... |
| 05:25:54 | jacques | dammit I wish they would put a date on those things |
| 05:25:59 | jacques | edwardam: I agree |
| 05:26:10 | jacques | which would mean orthogonal to linux |
| 05:26:34 | edwardam | Klaxon: yeah ... doesn't that kill you ... a fix will come soon.... Soon from when? |
| 05:26:42 | Klaxon | Yeah, "Check back soon" kind of loses meaning w/o a date. |
| 05:28:18 | waspy | is it a bug where the ipaq doesn't keep correct time? |
| 05:28:33 | jacques | waspy: more like an unimplemented feature |
| 05:28:57 | waspy | no time? |
| 05:30:05 | jacques | waspy: ipaq has a hardware clock which survives reboots, but it's not being used to set the software clock properly in familiar 0.4 |
| 05:30:36 | jacques | waspy: the hardware clock *does not* survive power disconnect (slide switch) |
| 05:30:38 | Klaxon | What's on that 16MB ROM on the iPAQ? Does familiar flash onto it, or is it unused in a Linux setup? |
| 05:31:02 | jacques | Klaxon: in linux, all files are in flash |
| 05:31:18 | jacques | Klaxon: so all RAM is available for processes |
| 05:31:57 | jacques | Klaxon: so to answer your question, all ROM is used under linux |
| 05:32:06 | Klaxon | jacques- Oh, wow. Interesting setup. I suppose that makes sense. CF cards can also be used for files? |
| 05:32:14 | jacques | Klaxon: yes |
| 05:32:34 | jacques | Klaxon: and you can use ramfs too if you like |
| 05:32:37 | Klaxon | jacques- Thanks for all the info, btw. |
| 05:32:45 | jacques | Klaxon: np |
| 05:32:50 | Klaxon | Unless you're -you- and ramfs isn't working. |
| 05:33:13 | jacques | Klaxon: I didn't say it's not working - it works fine, just doesn't show up in df for some reason :-) |
| 05:33:28 | Klaxon | Oh, misread... My mistake. |
| 05:33:42 | jacques | Klaxon: and if I look in /proc/mounts it claims to be 0 size no matter what |
| 05:34:47 | jacques | Klaxon: oops, not sure about the /proc/mounts thing |
| 05:36:32 | jacques | Klaxon: I meant it shows up as 0 size in 'df -a', and does not show up at all in 'df' |
| 05:39:32 | Klaxon | Ahhh, right. You can pr'y live w/o df, right? du can at least get you in the ballpark. |
| 05:40:43 | jacques | Klaxon: it's not really hurting me. if it was I would go back to the old kernel |
| 05:42:30 | Klaxon | How about sound? XMMS or somesuch work? |
| 05:43:20 | jacques | Klaxon: best is madplay because it has an excellent integer mode |
| 05:43:40 | jacques | Klaxon: most mp3 players these days use floating point, and if they have n integermode, it sucks |
| 05:43:55 | jacques | Klaxon: StrongARM does not have a FP unit |
| 05:44:01 | Klaxon | No FPU on the iPAQ? |
| 05:44:08 | jacques | Klaxon: so all FP cals are in software, which is slow |
| 05:44:14 | jacques | Klaxon: right |
| 05:44:23 | edwardam | Klaxon: StrongArm CPU doesn't have one ... StrongArm runs iPAQ |
| 05:46:11 | Klaxon | I think the Itanium is the same way. I guess Intel just got spooked w/ their FPU problems. |
| 05:47:08 | jacques | Klaxon: I would be shocked if the itanium doesn't have at least 4 FP units :-) |
| 05:47:30 | jacques | Klaxon: FPUs add size, complexity, and power requirements to a CPU |
| 05:47:47 | jacques | Klaxon: strongARM was designed for embedded devices |
| 05:50:48 | Klaxon | Right. But I bet the next generation of these devices will have it, and if not that then certainly the one thereafter. |
| 05:51:39 | jacques | Klaxon: yes, I think so |
| 05:51:53 | jacques | wow, 2.4.5-rmk4 is out |
| 05:52:07 | jacques | may be time to checkout hh cvs latest kernel again |
| 05:53:46 | Klaxon | Anyway, on Itanium, "The IA-64 floating point architecture is more complex than that of previous Intel processors ... the necessity for software assistance is new in the Intel Architecture." |
| 05:55:05 | jacques | Klaxon: probably analogous to the programmable GPU in the nvidia geforce 3 |
| 05:55:38 | Klaxon | And that thing is amazing, btw. (The Nvidia GPU) |
| 05:58:05 | jacques | Klaxon: yes. totally amazing. I can't wait until there are games that use it. |
| 05:59:19 | Klaxon | The nice thing is it will let developers do unique things with the available processing power. Until now, games have tended to have all the same look, because everyone is using the same functionality. |
| 06:00:41 | jacques | Klaxon: yeah, the programmable shaders are going to be SO cool |
| 06:02:51 | Klaxon | Anyway, I'm outta here. Have a good night, and thanks again for the info. |
| 06:03:20 | jacques | Klaxon: np, good luck. maybe I'll soo you around again if you get an ipaq |
| 06:04:26 | Klaxon | Yeah, I'll be back here for sure if I get one. C-ya! |
| 06:16:45 | vh | too bad usbnet is only for 2.4 |
| 06:21:10 | waspy | yes |
| 06:21:29 | jacques | usbnet is very cool. |
| 06:21:36 | waspy | oyes |
| 06:32:34 | edwardam | is away: ZzZzZz |
| 07:23:35 | waspy | how do you put familiar in verticle view |
| 07:24:12 | jacques | waspy: you can change the /etc/init.d/x script |
| 07:24:40 | jacques | waspy: change 320x240 to 240x320 |
| 07:24:40 | | jacques: that doesn't look right |
| 07:24:48 | | jacques: i'm not following you... |
| 07:24:48 | jacques | ibot: shut up |
| 07:27:07 | waspy | k |
| 07:28:52 | jacques | waspy: hmm, I thought familiar already was in vertical view |
| 07:29:02 | jacques | waspy: anyway, just change it to the other way |
| 07:29:26 | waspy | verticle as in vert in now left to right |
| 07:30:56 | waspy | how about 1024x768? |
| 07:32:06 | waspy | when is the Quake port for the ipaq comming |
| 07:32:33 | BBrox | 1024x768 on the iPAQ screen ???!!? |
| 07:32:40 | BBrox | The LCD has only a 320x240 resolution |
| 07:32:58 | BBrox | And the Quake port is frozen :-) |
| 07:33:14 | cdm|qnx| | waspy: You don't get to run the screen at anything other then it's natural rez. |
| 07:33:36 | waspy | can anyone recommend any good games besides checkers? |
| 07:34:44 | BBrox | Doom ? |
| 07:35:19 | BBrox | (anyway, about the Quake port, we should check the PocketQuake work as it seems they are doing some FPU => integer work to increase frame rate) |
| 07:35:29 | waspy | for the IPAQ |
| 07:37:00 | BBrox | Well, Doom works just fine on the iPAQ |
| 07:39:33 | waspy | what are some good games please? |
| 07:41:47 | waspy | hmm |
| 07:41:53 | waspy | hmm |
| 07:42:44 | waspy | will all of the H670's 64 megs be utilized with Familiar? |
| 07:44:20 | jacques | waspy: yes |
| 07:44:32 | jacques | waspy: hmm, what are you asking? |
| 07:44:54 | jacques | waspy: are you asking if you can access all the RAm or if all the RAM will be used up? |
| 07:45:49 | waspy | well there is 16 rom, and that's all used, will all 64 megs be useable (MP3's) ? |
| 07:46:09 | jacques | waspy: yes |
| 07:46:48 | waspy | then how come it says: |
| 07:46:56 | waspy | # df -m |
| 07:46:56 | waspy | Filesystem 1M-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on |
| 07:46:56 | waspy | ramfs 15 1 14 1% /mnt/ramfs |
| 07:47:19 | waspy | ramfs 15 1 14 1% /mnt/ramfs |
| 07:47:40 | waspy | l |
| 07:47:48 | jacques | that's a ramfs file system |
| 07:47:56 | waspy | dev/mtdblock/3 15 14 1 89% / |
| 07:48:10 | jacques | that's your flash |
| 07:48:12 | waspy | yes but only 15 megs |
| 07:48:16 | waspy | of both |
| 07:48:41 | waspy | should it say 64 1m - blocks |
| 07:48:56 | jacques | waspy: cat /proc/meminfo |
| 07:50:16 | waspy | total: used: free: shared: buffers: cached: |
| 07:50:16 | waspy | Mem: 31674368 24010752 7663616 0 0 15720448 |
| 07:50:43 | waspy | hmm not utilizing 1/5 |
| 07:50:45 | waspy | 1/2 |
| 07:50:52 | jacques | waspy: which bootldr version are you using? 2.14.5 or 2.14.8 ? |
| 07:51:03 | waspy | 2.14.5 |
| 07:51:21 | jacques | waspy: you need to add a mem=64M to your linuxargs in the bootldr |
| 07:51:29 | jacques | waspy: then you will have all your 64MB |
| 07:52:02 | jacques | waspy: the above is showing the kernel thinks you only have 32MB RAM |
| 07:52:48 | waspy | what is the safest way to do this? |
| 07:53:36 | jacques | waspy: there is really only one way to do it, reboot into bootldr, and change your linuxargs and params save |
| 07:53:49 | waspy | all linuxargs? |
| 07:55:30 | jacques | set linuxargs "noinitrd root=/dev/mtdblock/3 init=/linuxrc mem=64M console=ttySA0" |
| 07:55:41 | jacques | params save |
| 07:59:38 | waspy | cool thnx |
| 07:59:57 | waspy | so 31 1M -blocks = 64 megs |
| 08:00:37 | jacques | waspy: no, where do you see that? |
| 08:00:53 | jacques | waspy: the ramfs is not all your ram |
| 08:01:01 | cdm|qnx| | Has anyone tried getting MAME ported to the ipaq? |
| 08:01:07 | jacques | waspy: the ramfs just has a size of 15MB |
| 08:01:15 | waspy | ok , so where is the reset? |
| 08:01:17 | waspy | rest? |
| 08:01:34 | jacques | waspy: it's there, it's just not part of ramfs |
| 08:01:47 | waspy | what is it used as? |
| 08:01:53 | jacques | waspy: that's why /proc/meminfo shows 31674368 ~= 32MB |
| 08:02:01 | jacques | it's used for processes |
| 08:02:10 | waspy | ok |
| 08:02:17 | jacques | there is already a mame port |
| 08:02:28 | jacques | but I don't know how well it works |
| 08:03:20 | waspy | in wince , I guess, you can use a slider to shift mem alocation |
| 08:03:49 | waspy | but in Linux I figure it's set |
| 08:04:01 | jacques | waspy: in wince both processes plus all your files go in RAM |
| 08:04:29 | jacques | waspy: in linux, processes and files in ramfs go in ram, while other files go in flash |
| 08:05:27 | waspy | interesting |
| 08:05:59 | waspy | so this flash only has 100k rewrites? |
| 08:06:20 | waspy | hope it doesn't continously use flash |
| 08:06:46 | cdm|qnx| | jacques: The slider under WinCE lets you dictate the size of ramfs vs "core". Is the ramfs under Linux dynamic? |
| 08:07:57 | jacques | cdm|qnx|: I have been told that it is, but if so, only up to the pre-defined size (in this case 16MB) |
| 08:08:14 | jacques | cdm|qnx|: they are trying to get ppl to switch to the new tmpfs under linux |
| 08:08:26 | cdm|qnx| | k. The main reason WinCE doesn't let you put stuff in the flash is that the vast majority of it is full. |
| 08:08:48 | jacques | cdm|qnx|: unless you have a 32MB flash unit, then you are wasting 16MB |
| 08:08:59 | cdm|qnx| | jacques_idle: True. But only if you know you have such a beast. |
| 08:09:16 | jacques | cdm|qnx|: which is nearly impossible to find out under wince :-) |
| 08:09:21 | cdm|qnx| | :) |
| 08:10:00 | waspy | how long do you think it took wince to be developed? |
| 08:11:19 | cdm|qnx| | waspy: What version? They have done a lot of "tossing" of things. |
| 08:11:39 | waspy | the latest ipaq version |
| 08:12:11 | cdm|qnx| | So PocketPC? It is really hard to say. They have a bunch of different teams (kernel, ie, word, etc, etc, etc). |
| 08:12:22 | cdm|qnx| | there is also all the work that went into eVC++. |
| 08:13:44 | waspy | is it a large team? |
| 08:13:52 | waspy | or teams? |
| 08:14:42 | cdm|qnx| | teams. |
| 08:14:46 | cdm|qnx| | and they have a lot of people yes. |
| 08:14:51 | waspy | over 100? |
| 08:15:52 | waspy | explorerCe must have taked a lot of time |
| 08:16:22 | jacques | i must admit it's nice. the ce browser |
| 08:16:36 | waspy | yes , not even wap, full |
| 08:17:01 | cdm|qnx| | waspy: I would guess that between all the different groups? Well over 100. |
| 08:17:07 | waspy | the Ipaq Linux needs a comparable alternative |
| 08:17:21 | waspy | to ExplorerCe |
| 08:17:52 | cdm|qnx| | Probably won't happen. Microsoft has more programmers working on ExplorerCE then there are users of Linux on the iPaq. :) |
| 08:18:01 | jacques | waspy: ppl are working on it. konq/embedded for one |
| 08:18:10 | waspy | shouldn't be that difficult with Communicator sources |
| 08:18:20 | jacques | waspy: ugh. |
| 08:18:25 | waspy | ugh? |
| 08:18:30 | waspy | difficult huh |
| 08:18:51 | cdm|qnx| | You gotta give MS credit - they have a good rendering engine for IE. |
| 08:18:59 | cdm|qnx| | I know a bunch of the guys on that team - they are VERY smart. |
| 08:19:09 | waspy | seems like it |
| 08:19:21 | jacques | waspy: you mean mozilla? maybe but it's very large |
| 08:20:01 | waspy | I mean taking a look at mozilla and doing some heavy duty refining |
| 08:20:47 | waspy | do the guys on the explorerCe team use assembly or c++? |
| 08:20:53 | cdm|qnx| | notes that QNX has mozilla down to 8M in RAM running as a client in our client/server browser technology. |
| 08:21:10 | cdm|qnx| | waspy: C++. assembly would be kinda silly since it runs on so many different platforms. |
| 08:21:36 | waspy | so they use a cross compiler? |
| 08:21:46 | cdm|qnx| | of course. |
| 08:21:51 | cdm|qnx| | you can download it from MSFT for free. |
| 08:22:15 | waspy | is it a IDE? |
| 08:23:59 | waspy | hmm |
| 08:24:03 | cdm|qnx| | yeah. |
| 08:24:28 | cdm|qnx| | Still not as nice as our PhAB: http://warg.uwaterloo.ca/~cdm/qnxrtp/phab.jpg |
| 08:27:07 | BBrox | Back from the market |
| 08:29:33 | jacques | BBrox: what did you get? |
| 08:30:12 | waspy | speaking of explorer |
| 08:30:18 | waspy | Just crashed |
| 08:30:30 | waspy | slaps cdm|qnx| around a bit with a large trout |
| 08:31:05 | cdm|qnx| | waspy: why? I don't make explorer! :) |
| 08:31:28 | waspy | no just had to reboot |
| 08:31:37 | cdm|qnx| | hahaha... |
| 08:32:12 | BBrox | jacques: fruits, cheese and fishes :-) |
| 08:33:59 | cdm|qnx| | BBrox: what city do you live in? |
| 08:34:37 | BBrox | cdm|qnx|: Toulouse (south west of France) |
| 08:35:15 | cdm|qnx| | nice. |
| 08:35:28 | cdm|qnx| | likes the European lifestyle. |
| 08:36:55 | BBrox | planned to do some hinking tomorrow but it seems the plan changed :-) |
| 08:37:39 | jacques | BBrox: what kind of fishes? |
| 08:38:37 | cdm|qnx| | hates having to buy all of his food stuffs at large "box" stores. |
| 08:39:25 | BBrox | jacques: salmon and tuna (fresh of course, not boxed :-) ) |
| 08:40:09 | cdm|qnx| | :) |
| 08:41:31 | jacques | BBrox: I am extremely envious |
| 08:42:49 | BBrox | :-) |
| 08:43:36 | jacques | BBrox: those are my two favorite fish, and red snapper |
| 08:46:58 | waspy | nite everyone |
| 09:09:58 | vh | 500KB/s with the usbnet, not bad. |
| 09:11:38 | BBrox | Hmmm, we should petition for an iPAQ SETI@Home client :-) |
| 09:16:25 | BBrox | We that, we could create 'Team iPAQ' on SETI@Home and use all the CPU of our iPAQs when logged on the network :-) |
| 09:21:33 | jacques | BBrox: it will be a bit painful doing software float |
| 09:22:07 | BBrox | Well, there was an ARM client for old SETI versions |
| 09:23:48 | BBrox | Hmmmmm, no wonder DivX crashed, the AVI file was corrupted :-/ |
| 11:00:27 | Nermal | is gone.. autoaway after 15 min [l/on p/on] |
| 14:48:05 | _Axu_ | hi :) |
| 14:49:18 | _Axu_ | why does the apm batterycharge output work so bad ? |
| 14:49:32 | _Axu_ | anyone got some configuration tips ? |
| 16:03:49 | _Axu_ | i cant find xpaint as well |
| 16:04:08 | _Axu_ | its really hard to find apps for ipaq usage |
| 20:47:01 | Nermal | hmmm.. whats the difference between the ipaq 3600 and the ipaq 3630 |
| 20:47:36 | BBrox | None AFAIK |
| 20:48:39 | Nermal | they just decided they wanted to up the number |
| 20:48:42 | Nermal | *great* |
| 20:49:03 | a7r | when was there a `3600'? |
| 20:49:09 | Nermal | hmm.. does it come with any pcmcia or compact flash sleeve |
| 21:33:30 | Nermal | is gone.. autoaway after 15 min [l/on p/on] |
| 23:50:55 | Stikman | How much approx. is an iPAQ? |
| 23:51:15 | a7r | in USD? they can be had for 500 on up. |
| 23:51:48 | | privet, jacques |
| 23:51:48 | jacques | a7r: hi |
| 23:51:55 | | hey, jacques |
| 23:51:55 | jacques | ibot: howdy |
