| 00:01.21 | *** topic/#hhwiki by AntiProxy -> The hh.org wiki is a mess. Let's rebuild. What functions does the wiki serve that aren't better served elsewhere? Let's try to pare the site down to 2 or 3 or 4 major sections and try to simplify things. Please see http://handhelds.org/z/wiki/WikiReorganization . Wiki janitors needed! || A-W,Y-Z are done |
| 00:01.41 | AntiProxy | mmm |
| 00:01.48 | AntiProxy | i'll do the small letters |
| 00:01.57 | pb_ | cool |
| 00:02.06 | pb_ | my web connection has stopped again. :-/ |
| 00:07.13 | *** topic/#hhwiki by pb_ -> The hh.org wiki is a mess. Let's rebuild. What functions does the wiki serve that aren't better served elsewhere? Let's try to pare the site down to 2 or 3 or 4 major sections and try to simplify things. Please see http://handhelds.org/z/wiki/WikiReorganization . Wiki janitors needed! || A-Z are done |
| 00:09.30 | *** topic/#hhwiki by AntiProxy -> The hh.org wiki is a mess. Let's rebuild. What functions does the wiki serve that aren't better served elsewhere? Let's try to pare the site down to 2 or 3 or 4 major sections and try to simplify things. Please see http://handhelds.org/z/wiki/WikiReorganization . Wiki janitors needed! || a-Z,A-Z are done |
| 00:09.33 | *** topic/#hhwiki by AntiProxy -> The hh.org wiki is a mess. Let's rebuild. What functions does the wiki serve that aren't better served elsewhere? Let's try to pare the site down to 2 or 3 or 4 major sections and try to simplify things. Please see http://handhelds.org/z/wiki/WikiReorganization . Wiki janitors needed! || a-z,A-Z are done |
| 00:09.38 | AntiProxy | yay |
| 00:09.53 | pb_ | phew. |
| 00:09.58 | pb_ | so, I guess that was the easy part done with. |
| 00:10.19 | AntiProxy | yup.. |
| 00:10.32 | AntiProxy | now we need to check what links we have broken .) |
| 00:10.49 | AntiProxy | i tried to fix plenty on the fly |
| 00:11.10 | AntiProxy | the mess is mostly in the way links are arranged |
| 00:11.22 | AntiProxy | for instance, my entry (AntiProxy) comes linked under the hardware compatiblity |
| 00:11.29 | AntiProxy | or a similar page |
| 00:11.52 | pb_ | Yeah. |
| 00:12.09 | pb_ | Also, I guess all the "singletons" listed at http://handhelds.org/z/wiki/SearchPage/map should be viewed with some suspicion. |
| 00:13.06 | AntiProxy | i wonder if there are any statistics kept |
| 00:13.12 | AntiProxy | as to how many pages we trashed |
| 00:13.13 | AntiProxy | heh |
| 00:13.21 | pb_ | yeah, I was just wondering the same thing. |
| 00:13.36 | AntiProxy | count the lines .) |
| 00:13.37 | AntiProxy | brb |
| 00:14.41 | AntiProxy | hmm |
| 00:14.43 | AntiProxy | about 40 |
| 00:14.49 | AntiProxy | that doesn't sound realistic |
| 00:15.03 | AntiProxy | gah.. i'm hungry |
| 00:15.03 | AntiProxy | brb |
| 00:15.05 | pb_ | no, I'd have thought it would be more. |
| 00:16.32 | AntiProxy | maybe the history buffer is limtied |
| 00:16.50 | AntiProxy | where's kencausy tonight? |
| 00:17.05 | pb_ | could be. |
| 00:17.53 | pb_ | so, maybe it's time to make a new front page, and then work on the structure from the top down. |
| 00:18.24 | AntiProxy | now we need a whiteboard |
| 00:19.03 | pb_ | yep |
| 00:19.41 | AntiProxy | do you have any more detailed plan in mind? |
| 00:19.52 | pb_ | well, I was just looking down the existing front page. |
| 00:19.55 | AntiProxy | ( i feel like stripping all html tags from the wiki ) |
| 00:20.09 | pb_ | maybe we could start by just chopping things out from that and see how we get on. |
| 00:20.09 | AntiProxy | i don't get why some people bother creating tables n crap like that on a wiki page |
| 00:21.47 | pb_ | so, I'd delete HandheldsQuestions, HandheldsMailingLists, LittleToDos, HandheldsBuyAndSell. |
| 00:21.58 | pb_ | I don't think there's much of value in HandheldsDiscussion either. |
| 00:22.20 | AntiProxy | not really.. MLs are there for that purpose |
| 00:22.45 | pb_ | right. |
| 00:23.26 | AntiProxy | i wonder if a PHP->IRC gateway could be useful .) |
| 00:23.46 | pb_ | so, then we have HandheldsPeople, which is effectively the root of the "personal page" space and I think can stay as it is. |
| 00:24.05 | AntiProxy | yup.. |
| 00:24.09 | pb_ | HandheldsDistributions, HandheldsApps and HandheldsDocuments I'm not sure about, need to look at those and see what's actually inside them. |
| 00:24.18 | AntiProxy | once we move all the personal pages under handhelds people.. it'll clean up a lot of the mess |
| 00:25.02 | pb_ | yeah. |
| 00:25.24 | AntiProxy | mmm.. crackers didn't do it |
| 00:25.31 | AntiProxy | br |
| 00:25.31 | AntiProxy | b |
| 00:26.41 | AntiProxy | .\ |
| 00:26.46 | AntiProxy | i guess i need to go shopping |
| 00:29.23 | pb_ | :-/ |
| 00:29.40 | pb_ | right, I made a first round of deletions to the wiki front page. |
| 00:29.57 | AntiProxy | i'm slowing down as i'm really hungry .\ |
| 00:30.15 | AntiProxy | i think i'll drive up to a gas station and get some junk food |
| 00:30.43 | pb_ | heh, righto. |
| 00:31.00 | AntiProxy | want anything? |
| 00:31.14 | AntiProxy | a "chicken" burger,, or a hotdog sandwich? |
| 00:31.33 | pb_ | nope, I think I'm good. |
| 00:31.43 | AntiProxy | bbs then .) |
| 00:31.51 | pb_ | enjoy |
| 01:01.44 | pb_ | okay, I've moved most of the personal pages to be children of HandheldsPeople. |
| 01:02.19 | pb_ | some were already children of HandheldsUsers, and I left those ones alone. |
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| 12:22.14 | *** join/#hhwiki pb_ (~pb@pc2-cmbg4-3-cust239.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) |
| 12:40.48 | pb_ | I've added some more remarks to http://handhelds.org/z/wiki/WikiReorganization |
| 12:53.43 | *** join/#hhwiki cmarqu (colin@buug.mind.de) |
| 12:56.16 | pb_ | hi colin |
| 13:00.29 | cmarqu | Hi pb_ |
| 13:00.37 | cmarqu | pb_: Are you editing WikiReorganization? |
| 13:00.46 | cmarqu | Can you tell me when you are dine? |
| 13:00.50 | pb_ | I'm done now. |
| 13:00.54 | cmarqu | Good. |
| 13:06.23 | pb_ | cmarqu: yes indeed; one of the main motivations for starting on this wiki cleanup was that the documentation for things like PPP and Bluetooth was buried in hard-to-find places. We just need a volunteer to edit each page and distil it into a suitable form for putting on the main site. |
| 13:06.37 | cmarqu | We should maybe slowly phase out "Ipaq" as part of wiki names. |
| 13:06.43 | cmarqu | pb_: Yep. |
| 13:07.18 | pb_ | Yes. Well, I guess there are pages like IpaqHardwareCompatibility where it makes sense to keep "Ipaq", but in general you're right. |
| 13:07.47 | cmarqu | Is it possible to do a rename in the wiki database? http://handhelds.org/z/wiki/HandheldsSoftware is full of "Ipaq" |
| 13:09.01 | pb_ | Oh yeah, so it is. |
| 13:09.38 | pb_ | In the medium term, I think a lot of the functionality in HandheldsSoftware would be better provided by an enhanced ipkgfind (with a category browsing interface). So I'm not sure how worthwhile it is to spend too much time on that area of the wiki. |
| 13:10.30 | pb_ | The Zaurus thing at http://killefiz.de/zaurus/ is kind of what I had in mind there. |
| 13:10.51 | cmarqu | Yeah. I'll just add a note that most of this applies to non-iPAQs too. |
| 13:11.26 | pb_ | Okay, that's cool. |
| 13:31.08 | cmarqu | How do we mark pages that should be deleted (after discussion)? "DELETE"? |
| 13:32.28 | pb_ | Sounds reasonable to me. |
| 13:33.11 | pb_ | I think we can get per-page access stats out of the Apache logs on handhelds.org. |
| 13:33.37 | cmarqu | http://handhelds.org/z/wiki/Troubleshooting%20for%20Developers - nobody uses this it seems? |
| 13:33.58 | pb_ | Either we could do something manual with grep, or we can try being nice to Nick and see if he can make analog spit out a list of the most popular ones. |
| 13:34.18 | pb_ | cmarqu: no, looks dead. |
| 13:36.22 | cmarqu | Maybe we should use MarkedForDeletion and link this page under WikiReorganisation. |
| 13:37.23 | pb_ | Yeah. |
| 13:39.44 | pb_ | cmarqu: handhelds.org/~pb/wiki-hits.gz is something I distilled from this month's logs. |
| 13:40.29 | pb_ | Shouldn't be too hard to do a bit of text processing to sort them by most-requested order. |
| 13:40.38 | cmarqu | Yep. |
| 13:50.11 | cmarqu | pb_: Do you have the rights to delete ftp://ftp.handhelds.org/pub/linux/compaq/ipaq/stable/update.html ? |
| 13:50.54 | cmarqu | http://www.handhelds.org/feeds/bootldr/install.html too. |
| 13:51.34 | pb_ | Yes. It looks like the whole pub/linux/compaq/ipaq tree is outdated, in fact. |
| 13:52.11 | cmarqu | Might be interesting for historical reasons though. Make a tarball maybe? |
| 13:52.45 | pb_ | Well, it's probably harmless enough to just leave it be for now, if we remove any links that point there. |
| 13:53.00 | pb_ | I can zap install.html from the bootldr feed easily enough though. |
| 13:53.02 | cmarqu | Hmm, Google might link to such a page. |
| 13:54.56 | pb_ | right, install.html is history. |
| 13:55.54 | pb_ | cmarqu: yes, that's true. in that case, let's just document it on the reorganisation page for now. I'll ask Jamey what he wants to do with that tree. |
| 13:56.16 | cmarqu | Ok. |
| 13:56.23 | cmarqu | http://www.handhelds.org/minihowto/ppp.html - ha! :) |
| 13:56.48 | pb_ | Doh! |
| 13:57.33 | pb_ | Actually, looking at the ppphowto in the wiki, virtually none of it is still applicable to Familiar 0.7. |
| 13:57.40 | cmarqu | Yeah. |
| 13:58.17 | cmarqu | Should we abolish all the old stuff, even 0.6.x? |
| 13:58.59 | pb_ | Yes, I think so. Maybe we could keep the latest 0.6 instructions around on a separate page for a short while. |
| 13:59.22 | pb_ | Once 0.7 is actually released, I think we can definitely blow away the 0.6 references. |
| 13:59.24 | cmarqu | Actually, we should also take care to write "applies to Familiar", since we might get OZ/OE instructions more and more. |
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| 14:00.38 | pb_ | Yeah. |
| 14:02.09 | cmarqu | Would be nice if we had a wiki with user-visible revision control |
| 14:06.24 | pb_ | Mmm. Is that easy to arrange? |
| 14:06.40 | cmarqu | I don't know. Newer ZWikis might have it... |
| 14:06.59 | cmarqu | emacswiki.org's engine allows that, and it is great. |
| 14:07.44 | pb_ | Ken was talking on Friday about investigating newer versions of ZWiki. I don't know what the outcome of that was, if any. |
| 14:10.19 | pb_ | wow, it seems that the zwiki on handhelds.org is way old. |
| 14:10.39 | pb_ | seems to be version 0.9.8, dated 2001-11-29. |
| 14:10.49 | cmarqu | Ah. |
| 14:10.54 | pb_ | (latest is 0.18.0, 2003-05-01) |
| 14:11.43 | cmarqu | Upgrading Zope doesn't seem to be easy, but it might be necessary also. |
| 14:12.41 | pb_ | Yeah. That's not something I feel like attempting myself, but maybe Ken can have a go. |
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