| 00:03.55 | *** join/#harmattan zk8 (~tester@port-92-206-195-100.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 00:46.23 | djszapi | franz`: I would be interested in avahi, too. |
| 00:47.44 | djszapi | mmm, ovi rejected my package :) |
| 00:48.05 | franz` | try testing those .debs from that link |
| 00:49.08 | djszapi | franz`: ok, I am gonna import it into the community repository, if it works. |
| 00:52.16 | ieatlint | random offtopic question... if you were at a fancy hotel bar, spent $23.27 on lunch and left a $4 tip (thus writing $4.00 and $27.27 on the receipt), and then white still at the hotel realize they charged you $27.92... would you ignore the $0.65, or complain? |
| 00:52.23 | djszapi | is there a signal I can catch when the user swipes away off my application, and my application is put into the background ? |
| 00:52.48 | djszapi | Ovi QA complained about the timer so that I should pause at that time, and that suggestion makes complete sense. |
| 00:53.10 | ieatlint | djszapi: there is in qml |
| 00:53.32 | ieatlint | need to find it, but there's a page status or something property that you can watch for changes on |
| 00:53.43 | djszapi | let me check |
| 00:54.52 | beford | djszapi, any hints why they rejected it? |
| 00:55.10 | beford | oh nevermind, just read it |
| 00:55.42 | djszapi | ieatlint: all I see is inActive |
| 00:57.16 | djszapi | let me go for that. |
| 00:57.26 | ieatlint | http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/library/html/guide/html/Developer_Library_Essential_concepts_for_Harmattan_developers_Application_fundamentals_Application_lifecycle.html might be it |
| 00:58.09 | ieatlint | active should work, or if viewMode is WindowState.Fullsize |
| 00:58.16 | ieatlint | both should be the same, i think |
| 00:58.46 | ieatlint | unless something like dropping down the status bar causes the app to be active==false since the status bar has focus |
| 01:00.49 | djszapi | fullSize is not okay |
| 01:01.00 | djszapi | you can launch the appwithout fullScreen for instance |
| 01:01.16 | ieatlint | oh, no, fullsize isn't ok, but that's not why |
| 01:01.29 | ieatlint | it appears viewMode is an enum with only two values |
| 01:01.50 | ieatlint | fullsize and thumbnail... so if visible is false, viewmode will still be one of those two |
| 01:02.05 | *** join/#harmattan Khaled (~khaled@41.129.39.133) |
| 01:02.50 | ieatlint | visible==true && viewMode==WindowState.Fullsize is the most accurate detection of a window that is the current app i think |
| 01:03.20 | djszapi | disagree |
| 01:03.29 | djszapi | you can start the application in non full size mode |
| 01:03.56 | djszapi | or even switch off anytime. |
| 01:04.02 | ieatlint | it only appears as thumbnail if it it's in the task switcher |
| 01:04.32 | djszapi | then I do not need visible |
| 01:04.49 | ieatlint | viewMode==WindowState.Thumbnail && active==true is not possible methinks |
| 01:04.56 | djszapi | the only check I need is whether it was put away to the switcher |
| 01:05.01 | djszapi | I do not see why I would need two checks. |
| 01:05.44 | ieatlint | because simple is bad |
| 01:05.47 | ieatlint | :P |
| 01:06.22 | itsnotabigtruck | btw any idea where the initrd on the N9 comes from? |
| 01:06.26 | ieatlint | active tells if you if you have focus, viewMode tells you if it's fullscreen or thumbnail (ie, in taskswitcher) and visible tells you if it's visible |
| 01:07.00 | itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: concerning the hotel thing...maybe? |
| 01:07.02 | ieatlint | so to tell if you're the current app, use active. however, if a user does something like drop down the status bar, active will be false -- if that's an issue, you need to do two tests |
| 01:07.13 | djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: huh ? |
| 01:07.35 | ieatlint | i think that was supposed to be directed at me |
| 01:07.44 | itsnotabigtruck | whoops, yep |
| 01:07.48 | djszapi | ieatlint: no, active catches those. |
| 01:07.51 | itsnotabigtruck | not the first time i've made that sort of mistake, heh |
| 01:07.58 | ieatlint | and yeah, i don't really care about 65 cents... i'm just put off by the discrepancy |
| 01:07.59 | djszapi | I still do not see why I would need two checks. |
| 01:08.09 | ieatlint | djszapi: active checks for focus |
| 01:08.21 | ieatlint | focus is implicit that the window is visible and fullscreen |
| 01:08.42 | ieatlint | but, if there's anything on top of the window, it can be visible and full screen but not active |
| 01:08.43 | djszapi | ...so, I do not still see why one check is not enough |
| 01:09.11 | ieatlint | it all depends on if you want your app to stop your app if something like the status bar is dropped down |
| 01:09.13 | itsnotabigtruck | ieatlint: well, guess it entirely depends on whether you want to get it back on principle, whether it's worth the time to do so, and whether you're worried about getting on the bad side of the hotel staff...why not go fo rit |
| 01:10.20 | djszapi | visible == true and active == false | visible == false and active == false -> need both according to the documentation. Well, that is silly. |
| 01:10.37 | djszapi | there should be an "can interact with the app state variable". |
| 01:10.48 | *** join/#harmattan franz`` (franz@neozeed.net) |
| 01:10.55 | djszapi | ieatlint: ofc the game player wanna have the timer stopped :) |
| 01:11.04 | djszapi | there is no disagreement there, right ? :) |
| 01:11.29 | ieatlint | ah, no, in that case yes... didn't realize it was a game |
| 01:11.42 | ieatlint | you can just use active |
| 01:11.43 | ieatlint | :) |
| 01:11.56 | djszapi | no... |
| 01:12.07 | djszapi | I need two checks apparently according to their API. |
| 01:12.56 | ieatlint | well if you're just testing for focus, active is all you need |
| 01:13.49 | itsnotabigtruck | yeah, it sounds like you just need pause whenever active goes false |
| 01:14.00 | djszapi | mmm, true, visibility does not matter. |
| 01:15.06 | ieatlint | active==true && visible==false is not possible |
| 01:15.07 | djszapi | it is cool Ovi tests it this useful. |
| 01:15.09 | itsnotabigtruck | hopefully MP3ing all my lossless files will be sufficient to get them onto the N9 |
| 01:15.13 | ieatlint | the docs say that combo "is not allowed" |
| 01:15.25 | djszapi | ieatlint: and who said it would possible ? :) |
| 01:15.55 | ieatlint | you should just put a lot of "if( 0 ) { ...; }" statements in your app then |
| 01:16.08 | ieatlint | if( 0 ) { do_something_awesome(); } |
| 01:16.27 | djszapi | let me know when you are sober :P |
| 01:17.00 | ieatlint | bah, if you think i got that drunk at a hotel bar for $23... |
| 01:17.05 | ieatlint | that included food |
| 01:18.00 | djszapi | hopes to get invitation for the Qt Contributor Summit |
| 01:18.45 | ieatlint | when/where is that? |
| 01:19.54 | djszapi | http://wiki.qt-project.org/Events/Qt_Contributors_Summit |
| 01:20.32 | itsnotabigtruck | looks like i have 10 gigs of lossy, 15 gigs of lossless |
| 01:20.46 | itsnotabigtruck | so, no way mp3ing the 15 gig part is going to make everything fit on a 16 gig n9 |
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| 01:22.05 | djszapi | so anybody willing to test the enhanced UX ? :) |
| 01:24.14 | itsnotabigtruck | oh btw what do you all use to sync your music |
| 01:24.20 | itsnotabigtruck | and djszapi: for kanagram i assume? |
| 01:24.56 | djszapi | yes, but I need to do this for khangman, too. |
| 01:25.07 | djszapi | and prolly for kletters as well |
| 01:25.19 | *** join/#harmattan adlan (~adlan@115.85.128.54) |
| 01:26.00 | djszapi | actually I was also expecting rejection because I do not have a help page how to play the game, and not quite intuitive. |
| 01:27.03 | itsnotabigtruck | oh yeah - ieatlint: i just realized |
| 01:27.13 | itsnotabigtruck | are you sure the charge is the final value |
| 01:27.24 | *** join/#harmattan benares_98 (~user@208.70.18.120) |
| 01:27.31 | itsnotabigtruck | i assume this is on your credit card, i think it's common to over-authorize by a bit to cover the expected tip |
| 01:28.13 | ieatlint | potentially, but clearly i'll be calling the police for credit card fraud once it posts |
| 01:28.23 | itsnotabigtruck | lol |
| 01:28.41 | ieatlint | 911.. |
| 01:28.43 | itsnotabigtruck | multiply $23.27 * 1.2 |
| 01:29.06 | itsnotabigtruck | (20% tip) |
| 01:29.07 | ieatlint | perhaps indeed |
| 01:29.39 | ieatlint | my asshole of a self apparently left a mere 17% |
| 01:29.44 | itsnotabigtruck | lol |
| 01:30.37 | ieatlint | and yeah, i bet that summit in berlin will be awesome |
| 01:30.49 | itsnotabigtruck | well, the reason is that since you usually write the tip after they authorize the charge, they want to make sure you have enough left against your limit that the whole thing will go through with a typical tip |
| 01:30.51 | ieatlint | somehow doubting i'd find an invitation or the funds to get there though |
| 01:31.54 | itsnotabigtruck | :( |
| 01:32.28 | ieatlint | 225 seats isn't that many, and there are a lot of people who have done a lot of qt stuff |
| 01:33.40 | itsnotabigtruck | btw any ideas about the sync software |
| 01:33.42 | GeneralAntilles | Oh, Nokia. |
| 01:33.44 | GeneralAntilles | How much you suck. |
| 01:34.17 | itsnotabigtruck | i hate to have to pick and choose what music to load, everything fits, lossless, on my 32gig zune |
| 01:34.22 | djszapi | ieatlint: yes, but I hope I get in. |
| 01:34.46 | ieatlint | good luck |
| 01:35.17 | djszapi | I was not able to get to the last summit because of other sprints |
| 01:35.25 | djszapi | even though my company wanted to sponsor me ... |
| 01:35.38 | djszapi | vis major story. |
| 01:36.33 | itsnotabigtruck | hm, i was going to mention that...seems like it ought to be possible to work something through your job |
| 01:36.35 | itsnotabigtruck | but i suppose not |
| 01:37.31 | ieatlint | not in my case |
| 01:37.41 | djszapi | seems I have another regression in kanagram: http://paste.kde.org/421976/ I made override_dh_shlibdeps: void though. |
| 01:37.45 | djszapi | so not sure 'sup. |
| 01:40.17 | itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: just take ${shlibs:Depends} out of your debian/control and write them in manually |
| 01:40.19 | ieatlint | hah, yeah, would be $1.5k on airfare alone for me |
| 01:40.23 | ieatlint | don't think that's happening :P |
| 01:40.40 | djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: that is more work for each package if you have more than needed. |
| 01:41.02 | djszapi | and the overriding should work anyway. |
| 01:41.41 | djszapi | has no clue what is going on, it worked previously. |
| 01:42.40 | itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: if what you were doing is what i think it is, that causes your package to have no dependencies |
| 01:43.13 | djszapi | yes because you cannot ship dependencies into app stores, like ovi |
| 01:43.15 | itsnotabigtruck | which is not so desirable and would have the same net effect as removing ${shlibs:Depends} anyway |
| 01:43.25 | djszapi | ofc |
| 01:43.37 | djszapi | except that you would need to do it for every single package |
| 01:43.42 | itsnotabigtruck | i was under the impression you can depend on things in the image/nokia repo only |
| 01:43.48 | djszapi | instead of doing once in the rules file...which does not seem too sane. |
| 01:43.52 | itsnotabigtruck | you can't require EXTERNAL dependencies |
| 01:43.56 | itsnotabigtruck | not having dependencies is just wrong |
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| 01:44.13 | djszapi | you clearly do not understand how ovi works :) |
| 01:44.23 | itsnotabigtruck | i do understand how non-halfassed packaging works |
| 01:44.52 | itsnotabigtruck | and if what you claim were true you couldn't have python apps in the store, which you can |
| 01:45.14 | djszapi | except that python is available |
| 01:45.18 | djszapi | and kdelibs is not. |
| 01:45.21 | djszapi | or libkdeedu. |
| 01:45.30 | itsnotabigtruck | right... |
| 01:45.45 | itsnotabigtruck | so reread what my solution was |
| 01:45.49 | djszapi | no |
| 01:45.58 | itsnotabigtruck | which was to remove ${shlibs:Depends} (that's where the autodetected dependencies go) |
| 01:46.00 | djszapi | that is more work than my way in certain cases |
| 01:46.06 | itsnotabigtruck | then manually enter dependencies that aren't shipped together with your app |
| 01:46.07 | djszapi | and I will not apply different versions per case. |
| 01:46.11 | itsnotabigtruck | libc6, etc. |
| 01:46.13 | djszapi | that would be plain silly and useless. |
| 01:46.34 | itsnotabigtruck | you should be able to just take the list debhelper generated and remove all the kde stuff |
| 01:46.36 | djszapi | you clearly do not understand what the dh rule is about :) |
| 01:46.37 | itsnotabigtruck | then paste it back into control |
| 01:46.56 | djszapi | huh ? |
| 01:47.41 | itsnotabigtruck | the problem is that debhelper (correctly) detected dependencies, but those dependencies are shipped with your package - so you need to exclude /those/ dependencies but not any of the others |
| 01:48.01 | itsnotabigtruck | so a) build, b) use dpkg -I foo.deb, c) take the Depends line and paste it into debian/control |
| 01:48.10 | itsnotabigtruck | d) remove the entries for all the libs you ship with the package |
| 01:48.21 | itsnotabigtruck | e) rebuild the package |
| 01:48.39 | djszapi | no real need to waste my time for fun |
| 01:48.48 | djszapi | and re-test evertyhing. |
| 01:49.26 | itsnotabigtruck | it's not about fun, it's about correctness, and if ovi qa was really about qa they'd fail packaging discrepancies like that |
| 01:49.39 | itsnotabigtruck | debian would |
| 01:51.15 | djszapi | not really. |
| 01:51.29 | djszapi | and I actually found the real issue |
| 01:51.44 | djszapi | which was a missing tab character, so it works now anyway |
| 01:51.51 | djszapi | so why to mess up for fun ? |
| 01:53.23 | djszapi | especially because I do not need any dependencies which is not available on the platform by default. |
| 01:54.07 | itsnotabigtruck | because "it works now" but only with the cheap workaround hack |
| 01:54.36 | djszapi | I do not seriously understand your point |
| 01:54.38 | itsnotabigtruck | and what the dependencies do is e.g. prevent somebody from installing it on their desktop pc |
| 01:54.48 | djszapi | you say, Nokia will take qt-components off in 1.3 ? |
| 01:54.50 | djszapi | or what ? |
| 01:54.53 | djszapi | I really do not follow. |
| 01:55.07 | djszapi | hahahaha |
| 01:55.13 | itsnotabigtruck | well, suppose the user removed mp-harmattan-whatever, marked everything as manually installed, and selectively removed stuff they don't want |
| 01:55.17 | djszapi | who said I support desktop ? |
| 01:55.33 | djszapi | every day use case :D :D |
| 01:55.37 | djszapi | for an average user I target :D |
| 01:55.47 | djszapi | truely. |
| 01:56.03 | djszapi | if a user does, he has much bigger issues anyway |
| 01:56.15 | itsnotabigtruck | the point is that there's the halfassed way and the official debian policy-compliant way |
| 01:56.24 | itsnotabigtruck | and you seem to have this idea that as long as ovi qa accepts it nothing is wrong |
| 01:56.29 | djszapi | ofc |
| 01:56.36 | djszapi | because who enjoys wasting the time for fun ? |
| 01:56.45 | djszapi | if you do, go for it, and change |
| 01:56.53 | itsnotabigtruck | you do realize you've spent more time bitching about my solution, than it would take to actually implement it |
| 01:57.03 | itsnotabigtruck | you talk about wasting time, i'm suggesting a 1 minute copy-paste job |
| 01:57.06 | djszapi | you bitched |
| 01:57.08 | djszapi | I do not care. |
| 01:57.19 | djszapi | then why don't you do if it bugs you ? |
| 01:57.29 | djszapi | instead of talking to me about I am not interested in ? :) |
| 01:57.35 | itsnotabigtruck | you don't care so much that you spend hours arguing with me over silly stuff (to be fair, i'm also spending hours arguing with you) |
| 01:57.54 | djszapi | please stop talking to me about this useless |
| 01:58.00 | djszapi | it is just waste of time for both of us ... |
| 01:58.08 | djszapi | patches are welcome, period. |
| 01:59.00 | djszapi | and no, it is not one minute |
| 01:59.12 | djszapi | I should retest it on all images, that I do not even have access anymore |
| 01:59.21 | djszapi | so it would kinda impossible to re-test the changes. |
| 01:59.52 | djszapi | so I would even reject your patch even if it is not tested thoroughly as previously. |
| 02:00.03 | djszapi | unless it is tested* |
| 02:01.52 | itsnotabigtruck | too bad there's no way to patch in having discipline in your code |
| 02:04.10 | djszapi | ieatlint: do you have phone and ssh connection by hand to test the package ? |
| 02:08.38 | djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: and actually doing your workflow for many packages, is quite error prone |
| 02:08.48 | djszapi | since if it is something is missing, you are not any forward |
| 02:08.53 | djszapi | you are in the same situation |
| 02:09.04 | djszapi | and it is not unusual having 10+ depencies from the ground up |
| 02:09.13 | *** join/#harmattan longthen (~Charles@58.246.38.91) |
| 02:10.45 | djszapi | I have 15-20+ dependencies in my case, I need to remove 5-6 so if I mess up just one among 5-10 packages, kinda sucks. |
| 02:11.02 | djszapi | and this is vastly an error-prone process for no real gain. |
| 02:11.36 | djszapi | and probably maintenance hell as well once I update the package. |
| 02:11.43 | djszapi | project* |
| 02:20.53 | djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: reading material for you: http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/%23harmattan.2012-02-13.log.html#t2012-02-13T18:12:15 |
| 02:25.20 | itsnotabigtruck | reads |
| 02:25.37 | itsnotabigtruck | that doesn't seem to be particularly related, unless it's just to say that debian people don't care about the real world |
| 02:25.53 | itsnotabigtruck | it looks like cdbs does have parallel building, too, it just has to be opted into? |
| 02:25.59 | djszapi | that is what I think you do. |
| 02:26.13 | djszapi | or well, you do not do :) |
| 02:26.29 | djszapi | no offense. |
| 02:26.54 | djszapi | I was always respecting the debian rules in the beginning even if they had not made sense. |
| 02:27.23 | djszapi | like, please wait 5 hours for kdelibs with -j1 instead of just using -j5 |
| 02:27.31 | djszapi | and waiting 1 hour that way |
| 02:27.43 | djszapi | harmattan is just not debian. |
| 02:27.53 | itsnotabigtruck | what if you just stick DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=parallel=5 at the top of your rules file |
| 02:28.28 | djszapi | the technical implementation is not the point. |
| 02:28.47 | djszapi | I am just saying their principles do not make any sense for certain Harmattan cases |
| 02:28.49 | itsnotabigtruck | it's not like i'm worshipping the debian policy, they've definitely got some issues on their end...but the dependency fields are there for a reason, it's not that difficult to use them, and it could help avoid some problems |
| 02:29.00 | djszapi | which is not their mistake since it is of course a distinct platform. |
| 02:29.19 | djszapi | not really |
| 02:29.41 | djszapi | for 5-10 packages x 20 dependencies => editing manually and re-test everywhere for no gain is a maintenance hell |
| 02:29.48 | itsnotabigtruck | and as it stands somebody could download kanagram, double-click it on their ubuntu pc, and hit the button and it would probably try to install it, because it's not declared that it requires any harmattan stuff |
| 02:30.15 | djszapi | nobody did yet |
| 02:30.26 | djszapi | not just for kanagram but anything else using the same policy. |
| 02:30.35 | djszapi | in the last 1-2 years |
| 02:30.54 | djszapi | so why bother with maintenance hell, if there is no request ? |
| 02:31.21 | itsnotabigtruck | you keep talking about this 'retest everywhere'...it's highly doubtful it'll cause a problem unless you fool around with the minimum version bounds, and besides, you were just asking that people test your debs |
| 02:31.37 | itsnotabigtruck | maybe there's a more proper way to exclude certain packages from ${shlibs:Depends} |
| 02:31.40 | djszapi | you did not clearly take tests seriously yet |
| 02:31.48 | djszapi | tests are exactly against trusting. |
| 02:32.21 | djszapi | actually that is the main purpose of tests |
| 02:32.29 | djszapi | to avoid trust. |
| 02:33.00 | itsnotabigtruck | you have to trust that your tests cover every case, and that's never true |
| 02:33.11 | itsnotabigtruck | tests don't prove something's correct, they only prove that something passes the tests |
| 02:33.20 | djszapi | no, you do not have to |
| 02:33.34 | djszapi | wait, there is a good book about testing from a guru, it might worth reading it |
| 02:33.38 | djszapi | I loved that book, at least |
| 02:33.50 | djszapi | "The art of Unit Testing" or so, I recommend that to you |
| 02:34.03 | djszapi | I think the guy also have videos avialable for free. Really good ones. |
| 02:34.09 | itsnotabigtruck | testing is a useful tool but in the last few years people have been picking it up like a cargo cult |
| 02:34.32 | djszapi | unfortunately they actually do not pick it up enough. |
| 02:34.48 | itsnotabigtruck | passing unit tests != proper software |
| 02:35.11 | itsnotabigtruck | and obsessing over unit tests can adversely affect actually making good software |
| 02:35.40 | itsnotabigtruck | and it seems like people either don't do unit tests, or obsess over them |
| 02:35.42 | djszapi | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:35.51 | djszapi | if it passes, we can trust |
| 02:35.58 | itsnotabigtruck | like i just said, tests check if you pass the test |
| 02:36.02 | djszapi | really, I recommend you that guy from Israel. |
| 02:36.10 | djszapi | he made a very cool book and many movies. |
| 02:36.16 | djszapi | videos* |
| 02:36.51 | itsnotabigtruck | there's an infinite number of ways you can screw up that will get past the tests |
| 02:37.03 | djszapi | and that is exactly the point to avoid. |
| 02:37.04 | itsnotabigtruck | like, for example, sabotaging debhelper into producing packages with bogus dependency lines |
| 02:37.10 | djszapi | starting with not having tests at all... |
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| 02:47.00 | djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: anyway, you are welcome to test the app. I pushed to OVI, already, but still |
| 02:56.03 | itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: eh, toss the deb up somewhere and i'll load it up |
| 02:56.07 | itsnotabigtruck | i've got homework to procrastinate! |
| 03:08.51 | itsnotabigtruck | jpwhiting: still around? |
| 03:09.29 | itsnotabigtruck | (probably not, the whole firmware discussion was a long time ago) |
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| 04:13.37 | djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: just ping me when you have time since I would not like to upload it permanently. |
| 04:48.27 | djszapi | rzr: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=libtiff4-dev&project=home%3Arzr%3Aharmattan -> it is shipped by Nokia proper, so libtiff4-dev is history. |
| 04:50.25 | djszapi | rzr: libvorbis is also shipped by Nokia, so that one is also gone |
| 04:51.01 | djszapi | libselinux package in the community repository lol :) |
| 04:53.45 | djszapi | rzr: m4 is available in the repository, that is also now gone. |
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| 05:33.06 | djszapi | so how is running nemo mobile on N950 ? |
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| 08:47.04 | djszapi | X-Fade ping |
| 08:47.29 | djszapi | what repositories does the app4meego (client) accept for packaging in case nemo ? |
| 08:48.14 | djszapi | wondering where to put the kdelibs package to in order to get it realized by apps4meego as a dependency for kde apps. |
| 08:48.23 | X-Fade | CE:APPS |
| 08:48.53 | X-Fade | Check which repo it compiles against. |
| 08:49.05 | X-Fade | I guess it should be there? |
| 08:49.13 | X-Fade | *go there |
| 08:49.33 | djszapi | X-Fade: can you join #nemomobile for a short discussion about it ? |
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| 09:01.39 | Hq` | is it possible to have package dependencies in nokia store? |
| 09:02.27 | djszapi | yes |
| 09:02.36 | djszapi | but you cannot push dependencies to the "apps" repository. |
| 09:02.49 | djszapi | so if you have a dependency not being there, you need to pack up. |
| 09:03.21 | Hq` | I was thinking about depending on openssh-client |
| 09:03.31 | Hq` | it's already in some nokia repo since it comes with developer mode |
| 09:03.48 | djszapi | yes, it is coming iirc from openssh-client |
| 09:03.51 | djszapi | so that should be okay. |
| 09:04.00 | Hq` | but I wonder if the dependency works with devices that don't have developer mode enabled |
| 09:04.13 | djszapi | http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta3/free/o/openssh/ |
| 09:04.21 | djszapi | Hq`: yes |
| 09:04.33 | Hq` | ok, good |
| 09:04.35 | Hq` | thanks |
| 09:06.40 | itsnotabigtruck | Hq`: well, enabling developer mode just installs a bunch of packages |
| 09:07.17 | itsnotabigtruck | aegis-dev-mode is the only one that really controls the developer mode-ness of the phone |
| 09:07.22 | Hq` | yeah, but I was not sure if it also enables a separate repository where they come from |
| 09:07.43 | itsnotabigtruck | but the other stuff could be installed in any combination |
| 09:07.49 | itsnotabigtruck | yeah, nah, it's from the regular repo |
| 09:07.51 | djszapi | Hq`: no worries, you are good to go :) |
| 09:07.58 | itsnotabigtruck | it would be nice to have a proper version of ssh...5.1 is ancient |
| 09:16.26 | itsnotabigtruck | wants elliptic curve cryptography |
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| 09:47.55 | gri | grrr, qt-components' MenuLayout was not made with one thing in mind: hiding an item :( |
| 09:48.44 | djszapi | gri: no wonder :D |
| 09:50.11 | gri | yeah, dynamic menus were not invented at that time :P (well technically it's possible but I don't like the way) |
| 09:50.56 | djszapi | no worries, they did not fix many "bugs" in qml2 either, checked out :) |
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| 10:11.18 | rzr | djszapi: no pb to rm then |
| 10:11.26 | rzr | djszapi: i am busy this week |
| 10:11.39 | djszapi | rzr: I am cleaning up the repo |
| 10:11.44 | djszapi | I will remove yet another 5-10 packages. |
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| 10:15.51 | itsnotabigtruck | http://twitter.com/#!/vivainio/status/132563920283111425 that tweet sums up what's wrong with mobile and web dev stuff |
| 10:16.17 | itsnotabigtruck | there's people who mean serious business, and there's everyone else, and there's a lot of everyone else |
| 10:19.38 | petteri | I don't really get the tweet, maybe there is not enough context or something |
| 10:20.45 | itsnotabigtruck | petteri: oh, just a twitter back and forth with the usual suspects whining about aegis to a nokia technical marketing person |
| 10:21.46 | itsnotabigtruck | but the point is, everything's built so the 50 developers can make canned apps for the 10000 users |
| 10:22.19 | itsnotabigtruck | not-so-ambitious devs making not-so-ambitious apps for not-so-ambitious users |
| 10:22.36 | itsnotabigtruck | and it's not just nokia of course, it's the trend |
| 10:22.40 | itsnotabigtruck | that's why it's depressing |
| 10:23.32 | petteri | like the trend :P I see a lot of eagis whiners having access to N950, but not giving anything usable back to "community" |
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| 10:24.31 | itsnotabigtruck | petteri: well, that's the thing |
| 10:24.39 | itsnotabigtruck | but that doesn't mean the aegis whiners are wrong |
| 10:25.14 | djszapi | most of the time they are wrong. |
| 10:25.16 | petteri | for my point it means, good N950s going to waste |
| 10:25.25 | djszapi | +1 |
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| 10:26.46 | djszapi | that is what I also mentioned last July or so; there were many people who would have been okay with certain shortcomings and produced awesome things back instead of having the phones for whiners. |
| 10:27.04 | admiral0 | hello |
| 10:27.22 | itsnotabigtruck | hey |
| 10:27.33 | admiral0 | oh, here we go again |
| 10:27.37 | admiral0 | aegis |
| 10:27.56 | djszapi | no please, do not start it all over again. |
| 10:28.04 | admiral0 | XD |
| 10:28.12 | admiral0 | djszapi: you are a minority |
| 10:28.16 | admiral0 | we will crush you |
| 10:28.18 | admiral0 | :D |
| 10:28.44 | admiral0 | #netbeans dudes ignore me :( |
| 10:28.59 | djszapi | quantity does not matter, just quality :) |
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| 11:16.16 | djszapi | faenil: heya man :) |
| 11:16.24 | djszapi | faenil: do you use this nemo mobile thingie on N950 ? |
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| 12:12.30 | cyrus-n9 | hey guys. i cant update rss feed. how to check is downloading working or not? |
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| 12:36.40 | cyrus-n9 | maybe in terminal |
| 12:54.54 | petteri | no idea, maybe try to access the rss address with browser |
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| 13:26.32 | blacktass | Hi all. Anybody here who was succeed with installing qt5 packages from qtwebkit team on pr1.2 device? |
| 13:27.37 | djszapi | Yeah. |
| 13:29.30 | blacktass | djszapi: I can't install them. Aegis throws a lot of errors like Aegis rejecting /var/cache/apt/archives/qt5-base_5.0.0~20120209b2_armel.deb: package 'qt5-base' origin cannot be determined -- signature check failed |
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| 13:56.39 | djszapi | blacktass: have you followed this ? http://wiki.qt-project.org/Qt_5_on_Nokia_N9 |
| 13:57.38 | blacktass | djszapi: yep, I used this script (install_qt5.sh) and it throwed me that errors. I'm trying to install it at n950 pr1.2 with developer mode switched on |
| 14:06.35 | djszapi | X-Fade figured out why packages do not get published ? |
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| 14:38.46 | djszapi | blacktass: I would love to help, but I am full of loaded atm :/ |
| 14:38.54 | djszapi | perhaps tonight, if you do not get it fixed |
| 14:41.42 | djszapi | faenil: so how stable is this nemo thingie ? |
| 14:42.21 | faenil | haven't used it much because it has some big drawbacks such as lack of working battery indicator |
| 14:42.25 | faenil | on N950 |
| 14:42.45 | djszapi | really ? It worked one year ago with the meego DE. |
| 14:42.59 | faenil | yeah it stopped working don't know when |
| 14:45.00 | faenil | then it's not integrated with qtcreator yet, so it's uncomfortable as a dev env |
| 14:45.30 | djszapi | no qtcreator ?! ?! </3 |
| 14:46.03 | faenil | well you can use qt creator and template qtquick app, but the green arrow won't work :D |
| 14:46.28 | djszapi | would like to have a qtcreator-less platform. |
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| 14:47.02 | faenil | why would you, it's so nice |
| 14:49.14 | faenil | omg twitter web interface just changed |
| 14:53.58 | gri | faenil: yeah, into something worse |
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| 14:54.18 | faenil | gri: nah just need to get used to it :) |
| 14:54.50 | gri | I don't like the way messages are now expanded |
| 14:55.02 | gri | you have to find your message again to collapse the conversation |
| 14:55.16 | faenil | yeah that's true |
| 14:55.59 | djszapi | faenil: so is nemo actually any useful ? |
| 14:56.20 | djszapi | is it worth spending my time with writing/porting on app onto it ? How much userbase they have ? |
| 14:56.22 | faenil | djszapi: not to the average user I guess |
| 14:56.30 | faenil | little userbase afaik |
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| 14:56.53 | faenil | I'm writing qmlgallery just to contribute, because I like having the chance of working on an almost fully open OS |
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| 14:57.07 | djszapi | almost ? |
| 14:57.14 | faenil | because I'm not informed |
| 14:57.19 | djszapi | I thought it is truly open |
| 14:57.44 | faenil | I said almost because I don't know facts |
| 14:57.49 | faenil | it should be truly open |
| 14:58.13 | djszapi | I have just attended to the steering group meeting of theirs today |
| 14:58.20 | djszapi | so it seems the Open Governance thingie works by them |
| 14:59.12 | faenil | yes |
| 15:00.45 | faenil | oh crap I can't think blackberry is pusshing Qt on QNX without PLANNED support for QtMobility... |
| 15:00.51 | faenil | that's just crazy...ahhahahaha |
| 15:01.01 | faenil | I had such a big laugh today about that |
| 15:02.56 | djszapi | qtmobility really needs love. |
| 15:05.16 | faenil | how do expect people to work on mobile apps if they don't give them the possibility to? LOL |
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| 15:08.06 | faenil | how do they* |
| 15:08.42 | itsnotabigtruck | faenil: not sure what the big deal about that is |
| 15:08.57 | itsnotabigtruck | sure it might make it harder to port stuff, but qtmobility's only a small part of the api |
| 15:09.24 | faenil | but it's a critical part when building mobile-oriented apps |
| 15:09.41 | itsnotabigtruck | also the other thing is rim doesn't control qtmobility, nokia does |
| 15:09.52 | itsnotabigtruck | so the qtmobility apis aren't going to be aligned to what rim's os has |
| 15:10.05 | itsnotabigtruck | it's probably better that those sorts of things be platform specific anyway |
| 15:10.50 | faenil | don't know...it's their task to make a nice mapping between the two |
| 15:11.02 | itsnotabigtruck | often nice mappings are impossible |
| 15:11.18 | faenil | indeed |
| 15:11.23 | itsnotabigtruck | e.g. what if rim has their own contact data layout, porting qtmobility means forcing that into whatever nokia did |
| 15:11.36 | itsnotabigtruck | and apis lie qtmobility are supposed to be generic in theory but they never are |
| 15:12.08 | faenil | I agree with you, but this way you won't attract qt developers |
| 15:15.07 | itsnotabigtruck | well it's cool to hear rim is going qt... |
| 15:15.18 | itsnotabigtruck | maybe they'll buy out qt if nokia gets bored with it |
| 15:15.30 | itsnotabigtruck | which is a real risk now that they've killed off all their platforms that can possibly use it |
| 15:16.17 | faenil | I wouldn't say that before MWC ;) |
| 15:17.54 | itsnotabigtruck | nokia never launches anything at mwc, and besides, it's not like their strategy is about to change |
| 15:18.26 | itsnotabigtruck | wp7 = new high end, symbian and s40 = cookiecutter boringphones |
| 15:18.39 | djszapi | X-Fade ping, ping and ping :) |
| 15:18.40 | itsnotabigtruck | harmattan = run over by a truck |
| 15:19.11 | faenil | itsnotabigtruck: I'd wait, you know, just in case ;) |
| 15:19.24 | itsnotabigtruck | heh |
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| 16:19.35 | djszapi | X-Fade lbt what is the current time on c-obs ? |
| 16:20.03 | djszapi | mmh, it is probably utc |
| 16:20.37 | lbt | it's wrong for sure |
| 16:20.56 | lbt | badly |
| 16:20.59 | djszapi | interestingly enough my package did not get updated since 05:04 |
| 16:21.10 | djszapi | 05:44, even if it is 16:20 |
| 16:21.14 | djszapi | was built 1-2 hours ago |
| 16:33.39 | djszapi | rzr: ping |
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| 16:45.00 | djszapi | lbt: mmm, obs does not seem to handle 300 MB orig.tar.gz upload :) |
| 16:45.06 | djszapi | at least not on the webinterface. |
| 16:45.56 | lbt | is astonished! |
| 16:47.36 | lbt | I will say that moving towards git rather than tarballs will make this much more sane |
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| 16:47.50 | lbt | but that's not a useful answer for the next few weeks |
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| 16:51.30 | xmlich02 | hi i was trying to port my meego (qt-components based app) to maemo and i have problem with device orientation. In landscape mode application works well, but in portrait mode is visible only part of window and the cursor (touch) is gives also rotated response.. |
| 16:51.30 | djszapi | what do you mean ? |
| 16:51.33 | djszapi | lbt ^ |
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| 16:52.43 | GeneralAntilles | Damn, between 1.5 and 2 millions N9s in Q4. |
| 16:53.06 | lbt | we'll be working on a way to use git rather than upload tarballs |
| 16:53.11 | faenil | even though the report says 600k N9s were shipped in Q4 |
| 16:53.17 | faenil | who knows where the rest comes from? |
| 16:53.32 | abinader | djszapi: I guess he means when he touches the screen and receives QPos(100, 200) in landscape, when he touches the same pos in portrait it goes QPos(200, 100) |
| 16:53.39 | abinader | xmlich02: is it? ^ |
| 16:54.13 | xmlich02 | abinader, looks like it |
| 16:54.24 | djszapi | abinader: I asked lbt :) |
| 16:54.48 | abinader | djszapi: oh :) |
| 16:54.54 | djszapi | lbt: don't osc already use vcs, and so the website use that in the background ? |
| 16:55.01 | djszapi | doesn't* |
| 16:55.20 | lbt | yes but that's an internal detail |
| 16:57.10 | djszapi | lbt: still submitting after half an hour :P oxygen-icons is unfortunately around 300 MB :/ |
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| 17:04.46 | djszapi | lbt done incredible, let us have a drink :D |
| 17:05.07 | lbt | :) |
| 17:05.26 | djszapi | lbt I wonder why the PA team did not truncate it out for the needed icons only. |
| 17:06.17 | lbt | yeah - that would be nice |
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| 17:08.16 | djszapi | GeneralAntilles: link ? |
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| 17:23.25 | petteri | so anyone porting isis browser to harmattan: http://isis-project.org |
| 17:34.39 | djszapi | Err... no developer mode switch over 3g ? :/ |
| 17:38.27 | rm_work | GeneralAntilles: wait what? |
| 17:38.42 | rm_work | GeneralAntilles: that's how many they sold? i don't actually know if that is a high or low number <_< |
| 17:39.20 | itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: what do you mean |
| 17:39.30 | itsnotabigtruck | of course it should work, it just apt-gets some stuff |
| 17:39.35 | itsnotabigtruck | maybe your connection is on the fritz? |
| 17:40.03 | djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: no I can surf. |
| 17:40.17 | djszapi | and the developer switch is turned off. Basically the same as with the maps application. |
| 17:40.27 | djszapi | when I try to fetch a package for a country. |
| 17:40.59 | itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: what happens if you try to install something off ovistore |
| 17:42.10 | itsnotabigtruck | hopefully this is just some misconfig something and not self-sabotaging behavior at the behest of carriers |
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| 17:43.17 | DocScrutinizer51 | GeneralAntilles: usercount #n9 XP |
| 17:43.42 | DocScrutinizer51 | GeneralAntilles: btw HI, long time no see |
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| 17:45.14 | itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: also do you ever get any sort of error message saying downloading over wireless is prohibitado or some such? |
| 17:45.50 | djszapi | "Update failed". |
| 17:45.56 | djszapi | Try again. |
| 17:46.00 | djszapi | even from wi-fi :/ |
| 17:47.23 | itsnotabigtruck | well, if it happens over wi-fi also then i doubt it's hinging on being wireless... |
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| 17:47.50 | djszapi | I have no clue what to do |
| 17:47.53 | djszapi | apart from reflashing. |
| 17:48.00 | itsnotabigtruck | install meecatalog from ovi |
| 17:48.07 | itsnotabigtruck | install meego terminal from meecatalog |
| 17:49.25 | djszapi | unknown error for signing in my account |
| 17:49.33 | djszapi | I have the gut feeling it is some date/time issue |
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| 17:49.52 | djszapi | oh yes |
| 17:49.54 | djszapi | the date is the future |
| 17:49.56 | djszapi | damn... |
| 17:50.07 | itsnotabigtruck | you said downloading maps over 3g is disallowed? |
| 17:50.13 | djszapi | actually, not 30.03.2011 |
| 17:50.20 | djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: was for me |
| 17:50.28 | DocScrutinizer51 | LOL |
| 17:50.29 | itsnotabigtruck | yup, it is |
| 17:50.39 | DocScrutinizer51 | benefits of aegis |
| 17:50.43 | itsnotabigtruck | "Connect to a Wi-Fi network to download maps" |
| 17:51.00 | djszapi | yeah |
| 17:51.08 | itsnotabigtruck | there's probably a way to circumvent that...i'll probably do it on principle |
| 17:51.25 | itsnotabigtruck | you wouldn't download a map! screw you i would if i could |
| 17:52.11 | DocScrutinizer51 | dang my 3G downstream is triple as fat as my DSL |
| 17:52.30 | itsnotabigtruck | btw what's a good way to speed test the N9's connection |
| 17:52.32 | djszapi | ok meegopas is downloaded |
| 17:52.37 | djszapi | so at least I can now head to home :) |
| 17:52.41 | itsnotabigtruck | since the speed test in the ovi store is completely broken |
| 17:52.51 | itsnotabigtruck | has somebody packaged iperf for n9? |
| 17:52.53 | djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: dedicated website ? |
| 17:53.17 | itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: web speed tests are super unreliable |
| 17:53.27 | itsnotabigtruck | all the ones that are actually reliable use flash |
| 17:53.30 | itsnotabigtruck | which is obviously a no go |
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| 17:53.38 | djszapi | worked for me... |
| 17:53.41 | djszapi | quite exactly. |
| 17:53.59 | djszapi | even I could get flash work |
| 17:54.05 | djszapi | but non-flash sites were also ok |
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| 17:55.52 | itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: then what's one that produced accurate results |
| 17:55.52 | djszapi | heh splitnode |
| 17:55.52 | itsnotabigtruck | almost all the non-flash ones are "mobile" tests that use some tiny file |
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| 17:56.00 | itsnotabigtruck | meaning the result is all noise |
| 17:56.00 | djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: no clue by heart, first results in google. |
| 17:56.03 | itsnotabigtruck | e.g. 500 ms latency + 10 kb file = bs result |
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| 17:57.25 | djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: what to do with meego terminal btw ? |
| 17:57.32 | DocScrutinizer51 | itsnotabigtruck: that's why the websites I know are using different sizes for the test downloads |
| 17:57.42 | DocScrutinizer51 | and also try to evaluate latency |
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| 17:58.49 | DocScrutinizer51 | HEH, is this now best common practice to reboot freenode services each evening 1900 CET? |
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| 18:01.32 | itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: well, see if you can apt-get update |
| 18:01.49 | itsnotabigtruck | also if you manage to get that far, then the problem is really weird since you can access the internet then :p |
| 18:01.56 | itsnotabigtruck | did fixing the time fix it? |
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| 18:02.07 | djszapi | nop |
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| 18:43.54 | ZogG_laptop | black_tass: =* |
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| 18:59.06 | dragly | Anyone here familiar with DBus calls and how to find services? I'm trying to make a phone call from my app, but am only able to open the dialer through the com.nokia.telephony.callhistory interface. |
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| 19:06.04 | djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: any other clue ? :P |
| 19:08.45 | djszapi | X-Fade ping |
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| 19:21.02 | dragly | hm, I figured qdbus was of some help, and ended up trying qdbus com.nokia.call-ui /Call Com.Nokia.Telephony.CallUi.Call , but this only gives me "Call Ended" |
| 19:21.32 | frals | dbus-monitor while starting a call from contacts would be my bet |
| 19:22.16 | tomma | cant remember what the right method was but think it was in com.nokia.call-ui |
| 19:28.20 | dragly | ah, dbus-monitor shows the method NewCall and not Call. I'll see if I can figure out the arguments. |
| 19:29.36 | dragly | huh, I get No such method 'NewCall' in interface 'Com.Nokia.Telephony.CallUi' |
| 19:30.09 | dragly | but it is listed by qdbus if I type qdbus com.nokia.call-ui /Call |
| 19:30.45 | dragly | oops, it is a signal, not a method |
| 19:33.53 | tomma | qdbus com.nokia.call-ui /Call Com.Nokia.Telephony.CallUi.Call "" "<number>" |
| 19:35.42 | dragly | Thanks tomma, but that only gives me a notification on the screen saying "Call ended". Does it start a call on your device? |
| 19:37.15 | tomma | hmm... doesn't seem to work |
| 19:38.09 | tomma | same with requestcall |
| 19:38.56 | dragly | perhaps it is not meant to work? |
| 19:39.41 | dragly | I.e. that it is blocked or something. |
| 19:39.41 | Sazpaimon_ | has anyone looked at the source for extraplugins? |
| 19:40.34 | Sazpaimon_ | Im wondering if the author actually modified qmlapplicationviewer.cpp or if there's some secret feature of qt creator that I'm missing |
| 19:49.57 | *** join/#harmattan harbaum (~quassel@dslb-092-075-146-023.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 19:58.10 | black_tass | djszapi: any chance you have time for that problem with qt5 now? |
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| 19:59.54 | djszapi | black_tass: mmh, no sorry I need to polish a qt patch for review. |
| 20:04.54 | MohammadAG | <dragly> Anyone here familiar with DBus calls and how to find services? I'm trying to make a phone call from my app, but am only able to open the dialer through the com.nokia.telephony.callhistory interface. |
| 20:05.05 | MohammadAG | dragly, same as Maemo 5 DBus, needs aegis token |
| 20:05.41 | MohammadAG | also I get a MALF every time I startup: "too frequent reboots |
| 20:05.49 | MohammadAG | there's an OK Button that dismisses it though |
| 20:07.18 | dragly | MohammadAG, this DBus API from Maemo 5, or the com.nokia.call-ui I mentioned above? http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/DBus/DBus_in_Freemantle#D-Bus |
| 20:09.32 | dragly | I can answer that myself , it is the api from the link :) |
| 20:09.46 | dragly | it works using develsh :) |
| 20:09.51 | MohammadAG | dragly, I would've answered it if my internet didn't suck :p |
| 20:09.53 | MohammadAG | wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/DBUS |
| 20:09.59 | *** part/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@plexyplanet.org) |
| 20:10.00 | MohammadAG | that's where I wanted to look |
| 20:10.08 | dragly | nice, thanks |
| 20:10.08 | MohammadAG | anyway, you need an Aegis token yeah |
| 20:10.11 | MohammadAG | yw |
| 20:10.17 | MohammadAG | one more thing |
| 20:10.21 | MohammadAG | afaik my request was denied |
| 20:10.28 | MohammadAG | So it might be ovi-only |
| 20:10.53 | dragly | can I test my app with the Aegis token? |
| 20:10.57 | SqRt7744 | evopedia for harmattan is up for grabs! Thanks to Iktwo for a really nice QML UI, whoever wants it can get it here: https://github.com/Iktwo/evopedia |
| 20:11.19 | MohammadAG | not sure, your request might be denied when installing the package |
| 20:11.33 | dragly | Ah, well, I was thinking about Ovi in any case. I could make it open the dialer instead if I need a non-Ovi version. |
| 20:11.54 | MohammadAG | cracking aegis is a saner way :p |
| 20:12.38 | dragly | hehe, I haven't messed with aegis yet - thankfully... |
| 20:13.21 | *** join/#harmattan Venemo_N950 (~venemo@fedora/Venemo) |
| 20:13.51 | Venemo_N950 | Jaffa, ping |
| 20:21.01 | admiral0__ | kdevelop + scratchbox = <3 |
| 20:28.47 | *** join/#harmattan Free-MG (~ircchatte@p4FFE7EFB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:29.37 | Sazpaimon_ | you know what's funny |
| 20:30.12 | Sazpaimon_ | I see a lot of hate towards N9 on TMO, but an equal amount of people asking "how do I make my N900 ____ like on the N9" |
| 20:32.48 | Venemo_N950 | Sazpaimon_, why're you surprised? |
| 20:33.00 | Venemo_N950 | hey admiral0 :) |
| 20:33.09 | admiral0 | hello |
| 20:33.40 | admiral0 | how are you Venemo_N950 |
| 20:33.42 | admiral0 | ? |
| 20:33.48 | Venemo_N950 | admiral0, I've fixed the bugs in the Italian translation! :) Thank you for finding them! |
| 20:33.56 | admiral0 | :D |
| 20:34.19 | Venemo_N950 | also, the app is now in Ovi Store! :) |
| 20:35.37 | Venemo_N950 | a few months late, but better late than never |
| 20:38.58 | Venemo_N950 | admiral0, also, I'm refactoring IRC Chatter's code |
| 20:39.13 | admiral0 | i've been busy today too |
| 20:39.13 | admiral0 | https://admiral0.tadalist.com/lists/2143555/public |
| 20:39.56 | Venemo_N950 | that's an empty page |
| 20:40.32 | Sazpaimon_ | also on a side note |
| 20:40.48 | Sazpaimon_ | i could not make heads or tails of the accounts ui and telepathy |
| 20:41.04 | Sazpaimon_ | i may need to hope someone else can make a steam chat account plugin |
| 20:41.15 | Venemo_N950 | me either, although I haven't bothered much |
| 20:41.41 | *** join/#harmattan ajalkane (~ajalkane@a88-115-212-112.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 20:42.11 | Sazpaimon_ | if anyone is ever interested I posted some .NET code which allows one to communicate wih steam over their web API and a standard SSL connection |
| 20:42.43 | Sazpaimon_ | I'd write it in python but I dont know if telepathy-python apps can be submitted to nokia |
| 20:42.55 | Sazpaimon_ | and then there's the accounts-ui |
| 20:43.51 | Venemo_N950 | heh |
| 20:43.58 | Venemo_N950 | what's steam? |
| 20:44.14 | Sazpaimon_ | steampowered.com |
| 20:44.53 | Venemo_N950 | never heard of it |
| 20:44.59 | Sazpaimon_ | it's valve's gaming disribution platform |
| 20:45.08 | Sazpaimon_ | almost every company that publishes games use steam now |
| 20:45.13 | Venemo_N950 | ahm |
| 20:45.27 | Sazpaimon_ | but i also has a very popular social networking interface |
| 20:45.38 | Venemo_N950 | aaah, I wasn't aware |
| 20:45.40 | Sazpaimon_ | with voice chat, group chats and the like |
| 20:46.17 | Sazpaimon_ | im surprised you never heard of it, I think they peak at 5 million users a day |
| 20:46.43 | Sazpaimon_ | http://store.steampowered.com/stats/ |
| 20:47.02 | Sazpaimon_ | I guess if you don't play computer games it isn't useful to you |
| 20:47.52 | Venemo_N950 | I only play Starcraft 2 and I play it very rarely |
| 20:47.54 | Sazpaimon_ | but yeah, anyone that uses steam for games uses it for chat too |
| 20:48.17 | Venemo_N950 | Recently I don't have time for gaming. |
| 20:48.36 | Venemo_N950 | I used to play a lot in my highschool years. |
| 20:48.48 | Sazpaimon_ | I don't either, but sinc all of my friends use either steam or IRC for chat it'd be pretty useful to have available |
| 20:49.03 | Venemo_N950 | nowadays I'm just hunting bugs instead of zerglings... :D |
| 20:56.17 | Venemo_N950 | anyway, I'm going to sleep now |
| 20:56.33 | Venemo_N950 | check out Puzzle Master in the Ovi Store! :) |
| 20:56.43 | Venemo_N950 | cheers & bye :) |
| 20:56.43 | Sazpaimon_ | who has time for games |
| 20:57.08 | Venemo_N950 | I've had time for Puzzle Master :P |
| 20:58.06 | Sazpaimon_ | seriously though, if anyone here who knows more about telepathy/account manager than I could possibly make an account/telepathy plugin for this: https://github.com/Overv/SteamWebAPI |
| 20:58.10 | Sazpaimon_ | I would greatly appreciate it |
| 20:58.54 | Venemo_N950 | djszapi is a telepathy fan, that much I know. |
| 20:59.00 | Venemo_N950 | anyway, goodbye :) |
| 20:59.04 | Sazpaimon_ | he said he was too busy :( |
| 20:59.36 | Sazpaimon_ | I think he's just mad because i stopped testing Kanagram |
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| 21:13.59 | *** join/#harmattan bambee_ (~bambi@ubuntu/member/bambee) |
| 21:16.57 | bambee_ | Hi, I got a nokia n9 recently and since a factory reset : I cannot install an app , I cannot activate the developer mode, I cannot upgrade meego --> each time I try to install something it fails with "installation interrupted" |
| 21:17.00 | bambee_ | wtf? |
| 21:19.09 | dragly | MohammadAG, thanks for the hints! It is working in my app now :) Even though I have to pass the DBus message as a QProcess call at the moment. |
| 21:21.14 | dragly | bambee_, I don't know if there are other options, but maybe flashing it completely will help |
| 21:22.00 | bambee_ | the hardware is not flashed when you make an factory reset ? |
| 21:22.16 | bambee_ | arf |
| 21:22.27 | itsnotabigtruck | bambee_: nope |
| 21:22.44 | itsnotabigtruck | also apparently the "factory reset" feature is slightly infamous for screwing up phones |
| 21:23.04 | itsnotabigtruck | you need to 1) retrieve the firmware images for your phone |
| 21:23.12 | itsnotabigtruck | 2) install the flasher 3.12.1 utility from nokia |
| 21:23.25 | itsnotabigtruck | 3) flash it |
| 21:23.35 | dragly | bambee_, in addition, after reflashing, don't restore settings before enabling dev. mode |
| 21:23.48 | bambee_ | ok |
| 21:23.51 | dragly | You'll see this has come up before: http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/%23harmattan.2011-09-29.log.html |
| 21:24.05 | dragly | Search for installation interrupted in that log ;) |
| 21:24.08 | itsnotabigtruck | the flasher command is going to look like |
| 21:24.46 | dragly | if anything fails after restoring settings after enabling dev. mode you'll at least have access to a terminal (and hopefully SSH over USB) |
| 21:25.28 | itsnotabigtruck | flasher -F main.bin -F emmc.bin --erase-user-data=secure -R |
| 21:25.52 | itsnotabigtruck | possibly add --erase-mmc=secure |
| 21:26.07 | itsnotabigtruck | you probably don't need the --erase stuff if you don't want to expunge the phone of all traces of data |
| 21:26.14 | itsnotabigtruck | there's probably a non-secure erase that's faster |
| 21:26.27 | bambee_ | thanks for your help :) |
| 21:27.43 | itsnotabigtruck | oh, also |
| 21:27.49 | itsnotabigtruck | if you go the reflash route |
| 21:28.07 | itsnotabigtruck | make sure to get the currect regional variant (001, 003, etc.) |
| 21:28.23 | itsnotabigtruck | also if you do the emmc, make sure to get the version that includes the maps you want |
| 21:31.48 | Sazpaimon_ | I wouldnt trust --erase-mmc=secure |
| 21:32.13 | Sazpaimon_ | the fat32 data will still be there |
| 21:32.17 | Sazpaimon_ | somewhere |
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| 21:32.41 | Sazpaimon_ | unless they did like a multi-pass erase which would kill the mmc |
| 21:34.30 | itsnotabigtruck | Sazpaimon_: one or two erase passes isn't going to kill teh flash |
| 21:35.22 | Sazpaimon_ | two erase passes isn't a secure erase |
| 21:36.01 | Sazpaimon_ | if somthing is labeled as secure erase it should be DoD 5220 or better |
| 21:36.52 | Sazpaimon_ | maybe at least 7 passes |
| 21:36.59 | mgedmin | and a flamethrower |
| 21:37.04 | mgedmin | to be sure |
| 21:37.12 | Sazpaimon_ | I dont know the protocol for flash media |
| 21:39.07 | itsnotabigtruck | Sazpaimon_: 7 pass erase isn't useful for anything |
| 21:39.29 | itsnotabigtruck | on a hard drive, a 3 pass erase is all the overkill you could want |
| 21:39.37 | itsnotabigtruck | and i believe that's what the newer dod standard calls for |
| 21:39.50 | itsnotabigtruck | though if the dod wants to get rid of something important, they don't bother with silly overwrites |
| 21:40.31 | itsnotabigtruck | but if the emmc does its own wear leveling there's no guarantee that any number of write passes will expunge everything |
| 21:41.09 | itsnotabigtruck | however, if the emmc doesn't have too many spare blocks, 1 pass ought to be enough to expunge the vast majority of the data |
| 21:42.25 | itsnotabigtruck | btw it looks like the alternative to "secure" erase is "quick" erase |
| 21:42.31 | itsnotabigtruck | as in --erase-user-data=quick |
| 21:42.41 | Sazpaimon_ | [16:39] <itsnotabigtruck> though if the dod wants to get rid of something important, they don't bother with silly overwrites |
| 21:42.54 | Sazpaimon_ | yeah, thermite is all you need to erase your data |
| 21:43.02 | Sazpaimon_ | not just from the hard drive, from existance |
| 21:43.14 | itsnotabigtruck | for hard drives i think normally they use NSA approved degaussers |
| 21:43.19 | itsnotabigtruck | but those are kinda expensive |
| 21:43.44 | Sazpaimon_ | thermite is more fun to watch |
| 21:44.12 | itsnotabigtruck | lol |
| 21:44.18 | Sazpaimon_ | https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=k-ckechIqW0 |
| 21:47.10 | itsnotabigtruck | awesome |
| 21:49.24 | itsnotabigtruck | http://www.nsa.gov/ia/_files/Government/MDG/NSA_CSS_Storage_Device_Declassification_Manual.pdf ooh |
| 21:50.07 | itsnotabigtruck | page 4 covers flash memory devices |
| 21:51.11 | Sazpaimon_ | smelting? |
| 21:51.14 | Sazpaimon_ | awesome |
| 21:51.22 | itsnotabigtruck | ok, so the nsa manual seems to specify a simple 1 pass overwrite with a non-random pattern |
| 21:51.24 | itsnotabigtruck | then verifying |
| 21:51.29 | itsnotabigtruck | however that's in the absence of wear leveling |
| 21:51.34 | itsnotabigtruck | wear leveling makes everything complicated |
| 21:51.58 | Sazpaimon_ | i like smelting better |
| 21:52.04 | itsnotabigtruck | or is that to be done before the smelting, lol |
| 21:52.19 | itsnotabigtruck | nah, it's either-or heh |
| 21:52.39 | Sazpaimon_ | hoestly, if you smelt something you're not getting that data back |
| 21:52.43 | Sazpaimon_ | remind me to buy a smelter |
| 21:53.02 | itsnotabigtruck | lol |
| 21:53.32 | Sazpaimon_ | in case the fbi breaks down my door, I'll set up an automated system to drop my desk into the smelter |
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| 21:55.17 | itsnotabigtruck | :p |
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