irclog2html for #handhelds.org on 20050804

00:04.12*** part/#handhelds.org mreimer (~mreimer@bilbo.vpop.net)
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00:16.39fdvis it so that qDebug doesn't work under opie?
00:16.53fdvit seems like that, but I can't immediately see why
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05:47.56gintsmorning
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06:25.47pigeonhmm, is it possible from the bootldr to write/edit a file on the jffs2 flash?
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06:32.26Naytehi everyone
06:33.44NayteIs there a place I can download Familiar packages whilst I figure out how to get my IRDa/USB networking figured out?
06:44.40MonMothayea! I found my wifi card!
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07:08.22CIA-103llornkcor * 10opie/noncore/apps/tinykate/mainwindow/tinykate.cpp: fix # 0001687: opening desktop file
07:13.56*** join/#handhelds.org bluelightning (~bluelight@219-89-14-166.dialup.xtra.co.nz)
07:16.56CIA-103llornkcor * 10opie/ (3 files in 3 dirs): apply patch in # 0001662, fixes build with uclibc
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09:31.32Georgyanyone in here who has set up a crosscompile-environment on a debian host system?
09:34.27koenyeah
09:34.33koenI use OE
09:34.37koenoe.handhelds.org
09:34.55Georgyok, i'll try :)
09:35.18Georgythe debian-howto here : http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/DevelopmentToolchains is a bit outdated
09:38.46*** join/#handhelds.org pH5 (~ph5@p5485C180.dip.t-dialin.net)
09:38.57ljpoe is more than just a crosscompile environment
09:47.05pb_yah, oe is virtually a way of life these days
09:55.26lpkhttp://www.pretec.com/product/Mobile_peripherals/802_11b.htm
09:55.45lpkDoes anyone have this device? I'd like to buy something that works ;)
10:23.36zecke_ljp: right OE is also a tinderclient
10:28.27Georgybut the guide on installing OE is really good
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12:14.03CIA-103florian * 10gpe/base/gpe-login/ (ChangeLog gpe-login.c locale.alias po/gpe-login.pot):
12:14.03CIA-1Introduce a fallback solution for creating a locale list using
12:14.03CIA-1locale.alias.
12:19.02Georgykoen: i have installed openembedded now with all that bitbake stuff and that... can i make a familiar-kernel this way? (want to try that SD-Patch)
12:20.47zecke_Georgy: bitbake virtual/kernel
12:21.02zecke_Georgy: if your conf/local.conf, BBPATH and BBFILES are correctly set
12:21.42Georgyi think so...just followed that wiki: http://oe.handhelds.org/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/GettingStarted
12:22.12Georgyat first i have to get the kernel-sources, to apply the patch...and then build the kernel and get it running on the ipaq
12:24.38zecke_Georgy: bitbake virtual/kernel to start building your toolchain and a kernel
12:24.56zecke_Georgy: if you want to apply a patch change the bitbake file of the kernel to apply your patch
12:25.45Georgyah...ok... thanks, will try that
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12:41.47dcfeh
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12:43.36CyHawkhi! can you point me to some resources on how to "extend" an ipaq? that is i want to connect some hacked up circuitry to it, what is the least painful way? (i hope for something less demanding than sdio)
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13:44.28pb_CyHawk: which ipaq?  Older ones have a PCMCIA bus available on the 100-pin expansion connector.
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13:50.32koenGeorgy: hh40
13:50.47Georgyerhm...ok
13:51.07Georgya bit surprising, but ok.. *gg*
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14:02.37Georgyis there a special directory where the patch-file needs to be?
14:03.54zecke_Georgy: either in the same file as the bb file
14:04.00zecke_Georgy: or in a directory called files/
14:04.23zecke_Georgy: or in the directory that is named ${PN}-${PV} (PN = Package Name, PV= Package Version)
14:05.04Georgyseems most patches that are lsited in the bb files are unter the "files" folder, i'll put it there, thanks .)
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14:59.25CIA-103florian * 10gpe/base/gpe-login/ (ChangeLog Makefile gpe-login.c):
14:59.25CIA-1Improve fallback solution to support more situations.
14:59.25CIA-1Defind DEBUG only if not already defined.
14:59.25CIA-1Add -Wall and a section to handle DEBUG.
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15:21.03jameyfrance:  you around?  some confusion about which h1 goes in the rack
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15:22.06joshua_uh-oh. moving hh.org around?
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15:41.24jameymoving around the new servers
15:42.38CIA-103rw * 10gpe/base/gpe-mixer/ (ChangeLog Makefile): gpe-mixer: Remove bogus '-' (resulting in '--lgpewidget' etc.) from Makefile
15:48.06CIA-103florian * 10gpe/base/gpe-login/ (ChangeLog Makefile gpe-login.c locale.alias):
15:48.06CIA-1Version 0.81 released.
15:48.06CIA-1Import new file from gdm with the help of Phil's awk knowlege.
15:48.06CIA-1Improve fallback solution to support more situations.
15:48.06CIA-1Define DEBUG only if not already defined.
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16:12.38CIA-103florian * 10gpe/base/gpe-mixer/ (ChangeLog gpe-mixer.c):
16:12.38CIA-1Release V 0.42
16:12.38CIA-1Remove bad colour/style stuff.
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16:15.54nullushello
16:17.04*** join/#handhelds.org nullbinos (~nullus@l192-114-44-202.broadband.actcom.net.il)
16:18.00nullbinosis  Familiar v0.9 out?
16:23.14koennullbinos: does the website say it's released?
16:23.18koenif not, it's not out yet
16:27.31nullbinosnothing has been mentioned yet
16:27.42nullbinosdates?
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16:41.47CIA-103rw * 10gpe/base/gpe-contacts/ (ChangeLog autogen.sh configure.ac export.c): gpe-contacts: add --disable-dbus configure option
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16:53.49CIA-103rw * 10gpe/base/gpe-contacts/ (20 files in 2 dirs): gpe-contacts: release 0.41
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17:41.54france_re-hi
17:42.09france_so which browser is the most popular these days on a handheld device
17:42.13france_boa, dillo
17:42.21france_skipstone
17:42.36france_mozilla?
17:42.51Georgyopie or gpe?
17:42.56france_either
17:43.11france_I know what I like but I am trying to figure out what is popular
17:43.18Georgyin opie there are not many. a commercial opera-version and konqueror-embedded
17:43.23vIkSiTevening all
17:43.32Georgyhi vIkSiT
17:43.35france_evening
17:43.43vIkSiThiya.. how're things?
17:44.03vIkSiTkonq is nice.. but limited
17:44.27vIkSiThmm anyone got screenies of a gpe based today system?
17:44.31vIkSiT+tasks, contacts etc?
17:44.44vIkSiTwhat i want from opie : a more stable task+contact+today screen
17:44.54GeorgyvIkSiT i think there should be some screenies on handhelds.org
17:45.06vIkSiTnone for today screens, unfrotunatly
17:46.56mreimerthere is also a new one gpe-mini-browser in OE, built on webkit, or whatever the name of that toolkit apple released
17:47.50joshua_aka khtml :P
17:48.11mreimeryeah
17:48.13mreimerhi joshua_
17:48.26france_mreimer: thanks
17:48.48mreimerwelcome. haven't used it though
17:48.56jg_joshua_: having fun at scicortex this summer?
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17:49.15france_mreimer: no worries, just gathering some details
17:50.29joshua_jg_: I am.
17:50.30koenmini-browser screenshots: http://handhelds.org/~gpe/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=Applications&page=3
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17:50.59france_koen: thanks
17:54.25zeckeSubversion is berserk?
17:54.47CIA-103mreimer * 10linux/kernel26/drivers/mtd/nand/hamcop_nand.c: Flesh out the WinCE partition scheme a little more.
17:54.48Georgyanyone of you who has ever used monodevelop?
18:03.12vIkSiTkoen, any of the pim app?
18:03.47koenvIkSiT: ?
18:04.03vIkSiTkoen, er.. i meant, screenshots of the gpe pim app?
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18:04.56koenvIkSiT: same album, first page
18:05.30vIkSiTok
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18:19.50aquadranhow nice :] finaly got proper working own opie build for h1915
18:20.11vIkSiTnice..
18:20.14vIkSiT:)
18:28.08vIkSiThmm.. btw, whats the average install size for a GPE system?
18:28.58vIkSiTi've got a 5550, wondering how much space i'd have left on it.. if i install GPE?
18:30.51vIkSiTkoen, ?
18:40.33vIkSiThmm.. anyone?
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18:41.10GeorgyvIkSiT gpe seems to be a bit larger than opie, but not that bad. tested it on my h5450 a few days ago
18:41.33vIkSiTah ok.. becuse there's an 8mb difference in size.. zipped :)
18:42.00Georgyhmm.. at least in my case it fitted in the flsh without problems
18:42.28Georgy32 MB standard-flash
18:42.29vIkSiTGeorgy, you've got extra storage?
18:44.19koenvIkSiT: gpe includes more stuff than opie, like a browser and mediaplayer on h3900 images
18:44.33vIkSiTkoen, ah.. which can be removed?
18:44.39vIkSiTi mean..
18:44.50vIkSiTobv they can.. but after installation complete removal is possible?
18:44.55vIkSiTno conflicting libs or anything..
18:45.25koenyes, it is removable
18:45.30vIkSiTgreat
18:45.31koenipkg does a good job
18:46.26vIkSiTkoen, so what would you say is the space requirement of a heavy duty contact list and tasks and things?
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18:46.38vIkSiT(the databases of this stuff, et al)
18:46.47koena few 100k
18:46.52koenif it's really big
18:47.06vIkSiTah cool..
18:47.18vIkSiTand which pim apps does GPE use?
18:47.36koengpe-calender, gpe-contacts, gpe-todo  
18:47.47vIkSiToh ok.. custom..
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18:59.37Georgygot to go now, have a nice evening all
19:00.01*** part/#handhelds.org Georgy (~Christoph@dsl-084-057-140-197.arcor-ip.net)
19:02.46prpplagueany arm asm gurus awake?
19:03.11prpplaguepb_: ping
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19:07.54pb_prpplague: at your service
19:08.59saldanawhich dhcp client is included with familiar?
19:09.09pb_udhcpc.  it's built in to busybox.
19:10.23CIA-103zecke * 10opie/libopie2/opiecore/device/ (odevice.h odevice_ipaq.cpp odevice_ipaq.h):
19:10.23CIA-1ODevice:
19:10.23CIA-1<PROTECTED>
19:10.23CIA-1<PROTECTED>
19:11.34saldanathanks :)
19:11.46prpplaguepb_: when jumping to a location using BL, if the the first command there is a STMDB sp!,{r4,r5,r6,lr} , then at the end of the sub routine, a call for LDMIA sp!,{r4,r5,r6,pc}
19:12.25prpplaguepb_: iirc, this is gonna store the values of r4,r5,r6 and lr, and then reload them setting the pc to value of lr
19:12.35prpplaguepb_: correct?
19:13.10pb_prpplague: right
19:13.31pb_that's a fairly common idiom for subroutine entry/exit.
19:14.11prpplaguepb_: ahh ok
19:14.42prpplaguepb_: i've not done a huge amount of asm
19:14.56prpplaguepb_: still getting used to the syntax and common techinues
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19:15.50pb_prpplague: generally, subroutines are not allowed to corrupt r4-r11, so they must stack and restore those registers if they want to use them.
19:17.02pb_and, on most arm cores, stm/ldm is the most efficient way (in both space and time) to do that if more than one register is involved.
19:17.39prpplaguegotcha
19:18.14pb_if the subroutine doesn't need to save any registers, it can return with just "mov pc,lr" or "bx lr"
19:18.20prpplaguepb_: i'm |<-->| this close to cracking this bootloader
19:18.30pb_hehe
19:18.31pb_very good
19:18.54prpplaguepb_: hehe, been a very educational experience, hehe
19:19.12prpplaguepb_: these guys did a good job of obfuscating their code
19:40.17joshua_ARM is fairly easy to disassemble, compared to MIPS or x86, I've found
19:40.21joshua_x86 is really bad.
19:42.14aquadranjoshua_: not always. i found one wince driver which is much difficult than equivalent x86 driver
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19:43.36aquadranjoshua_: i think it depend on compiler which create such code
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20:09.51prpplaguepb_: have you found any good software for use with a wiggler for stepping through code and watching the registers?
20:16.14aquadranpb_: i updated patch to not use irda suspend/resume which is deprecated now
20:17.19joshua_aquadran, I guess.
20:17.36joshua_aquadran, well-optimized x86 is fairly incomprehensible.
20:21.49aquadranjoshua_: personaly i feel better in x86 disassembly propably related to much more experiences with that
20:22.34pb_prpplague: unfortunately not
20:22.45pb_aquadran: ok, very good
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20:35.57CIA-103florian * 10gpe/base/gpe-plucker/ (Makefile unpluck/Makefile):
20:36.53CIA-103florian * 10gpe/base/gpe-plucker/Makefile: Update makefiles to modern needs, release version 0.3.
20:41.09CIA-103philippe * 10gpe/base/gpe-mini-browser/ (gpe-mini-browser.c hildon-mini-browser.c interface-calls.c): Extra code to avoid buttons go grazy with labels and the new toolbar API (definitely improved, time will tell if it is fixed)
20:41.16prpplaguepb_: lovely
20:41.54prpplaguepb_: i just want something i can see all the registers, and hit the spacebar to go the next pc address
20:42.06prpplaguepb_: lauterbach does it nicely
20:42.50pb_yeah, it sucks that there is no free solution for that.
20:43.29prpplaguepb_: seems like it should be easy to do
20:43.41prpplaguepb_: think i'll look into writing something
20:43.49pb_fairly easy, yeah
20:44.07pb_it's not totally trivial, because of the way the arm jtag interface works, but it certainly isn't an intractable problem
20:44.24pb_that would be cool
20:48.06prpplaguepb_: yea, all i need is just a box on the screen with the registers
20:48.29prpplaguepb_: and maybe a key to restart the board
20:50.56pb_right
20:53.07prpplaguegotta run
20:53.09prpplaguepb_: later
20:54.21*** join/#handhelds.org Amidamar1 (~Amidamaru@p54A4F5CA.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:01.27vIkSiTerm
21:01.36vIkSiTok, need some help testing gpe..
21:01.49vIkSiTi just installed.. and now it seems to be stuck on an offset check
21:02.05vIkSiT....................................................Offset = 0005A0A8
21:02.06vIkSiT...........................
21:02.06vIkSiT.....................................................Offset = 0005A0A8
21:02.06vIkSiT...........................
21:02.06vIkSiT.....................................................Offset =
21:02.07vIkSiTwhoops
21:02.20vIkSiTand the same offset is getting checked everytime..
21:02.24vIkSiTwhat should I do?
21:03.09vIkSiThmm... someone help me out a bit?!
21:03.44vIkSiTer.. france_, koen ?
21:07.03CIA-103philippe * 10gpe/base/gpe-mini-browser/gpe-mini-browser.c: Correcting labels for Url and Fullscreen button
21:07.47*** join/#handhelds.org justintodd (~blag@209.121.65.171)
21:08.36justintoddHello! has anyone successfully got Bluetooth working on the IPAQ 5550 / with familiar linux 0.8.2 (h3900)?
21:09.03vIkSiTopie or gpe?
21:09.23vIkSiTpb_, around?
21:09.52justintoddGPE
21:10.02vIkSiTah not used that much.
21:10.09justintoddthe bluetooth controller isnt detected by default
21:10.49justintoddperhaps the driver isn't inserted? do you know what module corresponds to the IPAQs bluetooth controller?
21:11.34koenh5550 has a broken bluetooth chip
21:11.48vIkSiTah.. koen ..
21:11.52vIkSiTany ideas about the above?
21:11.59vIkSiT(offset trouble?)
21:12.45vIkSiTcan i just ctrl+c it?
21:12.47justintoddcan i modify and recompile the driver to get it to work with out much... work?
21:13.12vIkSiTkoen, i haven't done that thinking about possible memory damage.. is it safe to do so?
21:14.24joshua_iss this while flashing bootldr?
21:14.35joshua_or while flashing root?
21:14.50vIkSiTjoshua_, after flashing root, and typing boot
21:14.58joshua_just reset the system
21:15.03vIkSiTok
21:15.53vIkSiThmm. just did.. now what, joshua_ ?
21:16.44vIkSiTnothing seems to be happening actually..
21:19.33*** join/#handhelds.org whitehawk (~falcone@catv-50630a70.catv.broadband.hu)
21:21.34vIkSiToh,  i see this is a documented 5550 problem?
21:22.24whitehawkhi
21:22.38whitehawkopie and gpe support VGA?
21:22.52ljpyes
21:24.02*** join/#handhelds.org marcan (1337@58.Red-83-54-250.pooles.rima-tde.net)
21:25.31whitehawkcool cause I think more and more that in "windows mobile for pocket pc 2003 se" SE means sucks endless or sucks (for) ever
21:25.35justintoddwhere can i find the docs on it?
21:26.22koenjustintodd: the bluetooth is broken in the hardware
21:26.33koenyou need 2.6 and some patches to bluez to get it to work
21:26.40koensee the wiki and the mailinglist archives
21:27.22vIkSiTkoen, any idea about the 5550 and fixed offset problem?
21:27.34vIkSiT(when booting gpe?)
21:28.25koenvIkSiT: no idea, is Just Works(TM) over here
21:28.37justintoddok. thanks for the help
21:28.53vIkSiTkoen, ouch ..! http://www.handhelds.org/hypermail/familiar/229/22978.html this is what i found..
21:29.55vIkSiTis there anything i can do to check whats going wrong?
21:30.14vIkSiTi can get to the boot menu, but from there on.. it goes to the offset loop..
21:30.18vIkSiTkoen, ..
21:31.41vIkSiTcould i for example, disable the scanning of the jffs2 system?
21:35.08mreimerbummer. I have officially bricked my h2200 :-(
21:35.32mreimerwell, not quite--I trashed the 2nd-stage loader, but thankfully the first-stage and rescue bootloaders still work
21:35.53mreimerI need to find a CF card reader to get operational again
21:39.32vIkSiTFSCK
21:39.47vIkSiTi need to sleep. jeez.i did the stupidest possible thing.
21:40.03whitehawkbye
21:40.23vIkSiTthrough ymodem, i uploaded the entire bz2 file which had the bootldr and things **Inside it, onto the 5550
21:40.31vIkSiTsomeone kick me!
21:42.44koenvIkSiT: you'd be surprised how many "your image doesn't work, you suck" "did you flash the .tar or the .jffs?" "ehm... hold on..." moments we have here  
21:43.21vIkSiThehe, i'm sure the images dont suck :) although i have had to redownload gpe coz of a checksum error.
21:43.55koenhmmm, ipkgfind doesn't know about arch
21:44.27koenand php it is
21:44.31*** join/#handhelds.org Timelord (~TL@216.137.177.112)
21:48.06*** join/#handhelds.org hufnus (~slonsiki@m888136d0.tmodns.net)
21:48.59vIkSiTkoen, what were you saying about BT on the 5550?
21:49.03vIkSiTbroken chip?
21:49.12vIkSiTthought it worked fine on it..
21:49.32koensee the wiki
21:49.41vIkSiToh hh?
21:49.42koenpocketpc has a horrible hack for it
21:49.45*** join/#handhelds.org bjohnson (~bjohnson@i216-58-62-125.igs.net)
21:50.06vIkSiToh?
21:50.07koenthey limit bluetooth to 1 slow connection
21:50.24vIkSiTouch
21:50.29koenso you can't use a bt keyboard and mouse with the latest firmware
21:50.39vIkSiTthats bad.
21:50.42koenyeah
21:50.45vIkSiTso is there a workaround?
21:50.51koenon linux there is
21:51.00koenbut you need 2.6 and a patched bluez
21:51.16vIkSiTfam is not 2.6?
21:51.26vIkSiTfamiliar*
21:51.31koendistro != kernel
21:51.32jameynot yet
21:51.42koenjamey: our zaurus images use 2.6
21:51.47koenand the jornada ones
21:51.50vIkSiTi meant.. familiar doesn't use 2.6?
21:51.52jameyexcellent!
21:51.55vIkSiTah ok
21:52.10vIkSiThmm.. so the work i'm doing for opiebluez.. has no meaning?
21:52.11koenthe sleeve-compatible ipaqs still run 2.4
21:52.16vIkSiTor can it only handle one connection?
21:52.34koen2.4 is horribly broken for bluetooth on the h5550
21:52.52vIkSiTdamn!  i see. so one connection is barely possible..
21:52.59*** join/#handhelds.org jg_ (~jg@c-24-34-97-46.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
21:53.38koenthe chip and the serial port loose synchronization and can't recover from that
21:53.47koenso *if* it works it's pure luck
21:54.13vIkSiTthe bt chip and serial port lose sync? but whats the connection?
21:54.28vIkSiTwhen using bt.. i'm sure i won't be using the serial as well..
21:54.40koenthe h5550 has 3 serial ports
21:54.49koen1 for the cradle, one for IR and one for bluetooth
21:54.50vIkSiThmm?
21:54.52vIkSiTAh
21:55.03vIkSiTdamn
21:57.11vIkSiTso no one has actually got bt running on 2.4/5550. koen , so whats the status of 2.6 on 5550s? still on, or ?
21:58.00pb_still has the "self destruct after thirty seconds" bug.
21:58.41pb_there are patches to make the bluetooth stuff in 2.4 work more or less the same as in 2.6, though, if you want to try that.
21:59.46vIkSiTpb_, ah?
21:59.58vIkSiThow would that be, and has anyone tried it?
21:59.58vIkSiT:)
22:04.14vIkSiTand gpe has no package manager?
22:05.32koensettings -> package manager
22:12.51*** part/#handhelds.org agd5f (~deuchera@65.242.105.130)
22:13.54*** join/#handhelds.org mithro (~tim@c213-100-42-188.swipnet.se)
22:14.06france_security updates to apache finished, let me know if there are any issues.
22:18.02koenfrance_: is the php on hh.org really old or really insecure?
22:18.15koenor option 2: did someone update ipkgfind?
22:18.23koens/2/3/
22:19.20france_I think it is php 4.3.x
22:19.40*** join/#handhelds.org prpplague (~billybob@72.22.131.116)
22:19.49koensomewhere around that version they fixed a security issue
22:20.13koenyou could pass arbitrary variables into the script via http get
22:20.33koenlike 'logged_in=1'
22:20.49mreimerouch
22:21.13koennewer versions require $_GET['logged_in'] to access http get vars
22:21.38koenyou can still turn on the insecure option, though
22:22.36koenipkgfind cvs HEAD is using the old method, that's why I wondered
22:23.08france_koen: sounds like a project for somebody to update it :-D
22:23.27france_koen: next week andy is working on the website, so I suspect everything will get changed about
22:23.35koencool
22:23.48prpplaguepb_: have you looked at armtool?
22:23.54koenfrance_: I rewrote ipkgfind as a drupal module: http://ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl/drupal/?q=ipkgfind&pnm=tslib-conf
22:24.09koenthat's the site I use to test nasty hacks on
22:24.14pb_prpplague: nope
22:24.32koenso I have a debugged version to run on hh.org
22:28.01france_nods
22:28.22prpplaguepb_: http://hri.sourceforge.net/tools/armtool.html
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23:10.37koen'night all
23:10.41mreimernight koen
23:15.46*** join/#handhelds.org saldana_ (~saldana@reverse-82-141-58-228.dialin.kamp-dsl.de)
23:32.03*** join/#handhelds.org inomine (~inomine@81-178-83-42.dsl.pipex.com)
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