| 01:15.43 | Thought | hi |
| 01:15.59 | Thought | anyone in here have any expertise with cross-compilers? |
| 01:19.08 | Thought | is anyone even awake? |
| 01:27.49 | hubick | hello |
| 01:27.55 | Thought | hiya |
| 01:27.59 | hubick | Thought: i have mine working |
| 01:28.34 | Thought | would you happen to know if the h8300-hms cross-compiler produces different code from the h8300-elf? or was it just named wrong? |
| 01:29.17 | hubick | dude, that's like a good question. though mine does work, i'm still pretty much a newbie. |
| 01:30.41 | Thought | hmm .. I've got the h8300-hms, nice neat rpm, but the kernel wants h8300-elf, and I'm too impatient to download all the source and build a new cross-compiler and gdb if they produce the same code, but if they don'r produce the same code, then none of my experiments will work at all |
| 01:31.25 | hubick | yeah, i have just used the prebuilt ones of hh.org :) |
| 01:32.50 | Thought | hmmm |
| 01:33.37 | Thought | I don't think they support the h8 do they? |
| 01:33.48 | hubick | h8? |
| 01:33.52 | Thought | hitachi |
| 01:34.13 | Thought | nope - don't see it |
| 01:34.15 | hubick | i haven't even looked at that |
| 01:34.57 | hubick | i know there was a dir in there with a few different ones, but i think they were all ipaq/arm centric |
| 01:35.58 | Thought | ah - they are different |
| 01:36.33 | hubick | if you hang out, someone who knows something might stop by, but i wouldn't hold your breath this late on a Friday |
| 01:37.13 | Thought | yeah - true |
| 01:38.40 | hubick | hrm. on a different note, i wonder if anyone has GTK 2 building for familiar yet. i assume so. |
| 01:39.55 | hubick | oooh, pb_ does have it going. |
| 01:41.03 | Thought | gtk 2 is ok, but there aren't enough apps that support it yet, and I've found they've removed an aweful lot of features |
| 01:41.40 | hubick | they seem to have made good headway on the internationalization of it at least |
| 01:42.06 | hubick | 2.1 supports xinerama, which i really want for my dual head workstation |
| 01:42.19 | Thought | ah |
| 01:42.37 | Thought | It just seems like they've ... dumbed it down |
| 01:44.00 | hubick | until the last 5 months, i hadn't run linux since redhat 5.2 era several years ago, so i mostly forget the older stuff |
| 01:44.31 | hubick | i'm looking forward to see what Evolution looks like when it's ported. |
| 01:47.38 | Thought | ported? oh to Gnome2? |
| 01:47.58 | Thought | I'm not a big Evolution fan - reminds of the "remote virus shell" too much |
| 01:49.07 | hubick | hey Thought, i have a newbie cross compiler question for you though... |
| 01:49.47 | hubick | do you need to ldconfig libs added to cross tool chain to update cache? and how? |
| 01:51.04 | Thought | not that I know of. Just stick the finished libs and executables on the target machine and run ldconfig there |
| 01:51.23 | Thought | linker shouldn't care until you execute the program |
| 01:51.38 | Thought | been awhile since I've done any cross-compiling though |
| 01:51.57 | hubick | well, i mean, if you want to add libs to your xc tool chain though....other software you build with that can't find those until you update it's cache (?) |
| 01:53.32 | Thought | must be late .. I'm not getting the question. You've added libs ... to which system? the target or the host? |
| 01:53.40 | hubick | i need to play around more. as you can see, i'm pretty new to this whole xc thing |
| 01:53.52 | hubick | all referring to host system |
| 01:54.03 | hubick | building arm binaries on host system |
| 01:54.12 | Thought | dynamically linked or static libs? |
| 01:54.18 | hubick | dynamic |
| 01:54.29 | hubick | if you put an .so in arm's lib dir |
| 01:54.44 | hubick | will it be picked up for arm cross compiles right away? |
| 01:54.48 | Thought | just cross-compile the libs and copy them to the target system, then update the target. The host system shouldn't care about it |
| 01:55.10 | hubick | i think you are misunderstanding me |
| 01:55.30 | hubick | if i am writing an app, A, that depends on lib B... |
| 01:55.35 | Thought | right |
| 01:55.50 | hubick | and i put B in the arm tool chain's lib dir... /skiff/local/lib |
| 01:55.57 | hubick | and then go to build A |
| 01:56.06 | Thought | yes, its automatic |
| 01:56.11 | hubick | ok |
| 01:56.18 | hubick | no need to ldconfig |
| 01:56.21 | Thought | right |
| 01:56.55 | Thought | ldconfig is for running the new executable. The compilation uses hardcoded dirs into the xc and whatever you pass with -L |
| 01:57.31 | hubick | ahh |
| 01:57.32 | hubick | yeah |
| 01:58.52 | hubick | i knew it would pick up -L, but hardcoded was the question...didn't know if gcc would find it |
| 01:58.57 | hubick | does GCC use LD to find libs? |
| 01:59.19 | Thought | nope |
| 02:00.21 | Thought | well ... it uses it to find its own libs to execute, but not to build with |
| 02:00.26 | hubick | yeah |
| 02:00.51 | hubick | yet it will look in the library path just as ld |
| 02:01.22 | hubick | actually, that's an assumptionn |
| 02:01.32 | Thought | I forget all the search algorythms it goes through |
| 02:01.36 | hubick | that it just wasn't built with what happens to be the same set of dirs, hardcoded |
| 02:01.39 | Thought | it usually "just works" :) |
| 02:01.45 | hubick | exactly |
| 02:01.57 | hubick | i never had to think about this kinda stuff before |
| 02:02.25 | Thought | hehe |
| 02:02.30 | Thought | ever work on IRIX? |
| 02:02.47 | hubick | not really, had a few of em during my CS degree |
| 02:02.54 | Thought | they have 3 different ABIs you can compile for with 3 seperate sets of libraries for each ABI |
| 02:03.00 | Thought | compiling on one is a nightmare |
| 02:03.08 | hubick | gah |
| 02:03.17 | hubick | well...actually, no, that might be good |
| 02:03.28 | hubick | i mean, drop all the old crap, and cut a fresh ABI |
| 02:03.35 | hubick | like, if only Microsoft had done that a few times |
| 02:04.05 | hubick | i guess .NET/CLR counts as the first real departure |
| 02:04.31 | hubick | ahh |
| 02:04.35 | hubick | im reading API, not ABI |
| 02:04.49 | hubick | well...3 separate libs, assuming |
| 02:05.22 | hubick | GCC has a new ABI every rev tho :) |
| 02:05.38 | hubick | i heard now they even found bugs in the 3.2, and it will have to change yet again |
| 02:05.51 | Thought | its usually not bad until you realize that Oracle only support the O32 ABI, now you want to make a perl to load the Oracle module ... so all of perl and all the modules must be compiled O32 ... but GCC won't compile O32, only N32 or better, but some module needs real IEEE floating point, so it needs GCC not the broken IRIX compiler .. suddenly you can't do what you want |
| 02:06.55 | hubick | i wait for the day GCC can link with Intel compiler libs |
| 02:07.04 | Thought | yeah ... IRIX has 3 ABI .. different binary formats that can't load each others libraries or link with each others code, and even the newest monster 64 bit machines still have the regular OS utils compiled as N32 not N64, so they don't support there own ABI |
| 02:07.21 | Thought | link with Intel libs? |
| 02:07.24 | Thought | hmmm |
| 02:07.28 | hubick | Intel compiler |
| 02:07.31 | hubick | very fast |
| 02:07.34 | hubick | fast code |
| 02:07.50 | hubick | i saw benchmarks showing 40+% on GCC 3 |
| 02:07.55 | Thought | I'd have to compare against GCC myself |
| 02:08.11 | Thought | benchmarks are well .. easily slanted for whatever you want them to say |
| 02:08.23 | hubick | yeah |
| 02:08.34 | Thought | I'd rather have Intel put there research into GCC than just have GCC load Intel libs |
| 02:08.48 | hubick | it's not really possible from my understanding |
| 02:09.14 | hubick | GCC's design for multiple architectures doesn't allow the integration between front and back ends necessary for many optimizations |
| 02:09.34 | hubick | don't quote me on that though :) |
| 02:09.55 | Thought | I don't see why it couldn't |
| 02:10.13 | Thought | but I'm getting cloudy so you could be right |
| 02:10.23 | Thought | its been a long time since I was into all this stuff |
| 02:10.28 | hubick | i think it has to do with current intermediate format |
| 02:10.59 | hubick | actually, i might remember something about GCC having a new tree format in a branch of their CVS |
| 02:11.07 | hubick | but will require updates of all front/back ends to use |
| 02:11.33 | pigeon | Hmm seems that the initial mounting of / on the ipaq/familiar is not according to /etc/fstab |
| 02:12.24 | hubick | pigeon: really. that's /weird/ |
| 02:12.35 | hubick | how would that even happen? |
| 02:12.53 | hubick | being that mount reads from fstab in init.d ( i think) |
| 02:12.57 | pigeon | Hmm well, I have noatime for /, but it doesn't seem to mount / with noatime. |
| 02:13.11 | hubick | oh, the options are different? |
| 02:13.30 | hubick | that could be a kernel weirdness |
| 02:13.51 | hubick | i have a lot of problems with my NFS |
| 02:13.51 | Thought | uhmm |
| 02:14.11 | pigeon | Well |
| 02:14.16 | pigeon | /dev/mtdblock3 / jffs2 defaults,noatime |
| 02:14.22 | Thought | initial mounting of / is different from /etc/fstab, the kernel remounts root later |
| 02:14.24 | pigeon | /dev/mtdblock/1 on / type jffs2 (rw) |
| 02:14.47 | pigeon | Hmm, /dev/mtdblock3 doesn't really exist anyway. |
| 02:15.25 | Thought | root mount point is determined by the kernel at compile time or via a parameter passed to the kernel, not by /etc/fstab. Think about it - with no root mounted, how can it read /etc/fstab?? |
| 02:15.39 | pigeon | Hmm true. |
| 02:16.21 | Thought | it should however match what the fstab says in case of remounts and such. You can set the kernel root with the "root=" command line option. |
| 02:16.49 | hubick | ibot: linuxargs? |
| 02:16.49 | | linuxargs is probably set linuxargs "nortfm noinitrd noroot noinit noconsole" ;) or http://www.handhelds.org/ or in /boot/params or set linuxargs "noinitrd root=/dev/mtdblock1 init=/bin/sh console=ttySA0" |
| 02:17.38 | pigeon | Hmm the question will be, how do I pass mount options in linuxargs. |
| 02:18.40 | hubick | it should do the remount according to fstab though right? |
| 02:19.07 | pigeon | It doesn't seem to be doing that. |
| 02:19.22 | pigeon | Not until I added mount -o remount / in /linuxrc |
| 02:19.29 | pigeon | Anyway... |
| 02:19.46 | hubick | hack away! |
| 02:20.01 | Thought | when it does the remount, it still hasn't read /etc |
| 02:20.08 | pigeon | I'm just a bit paranoid about atime ;) |
| 02:20.26 | pigeon | /dev/mtdblock/1 on / type jffs2 (rw,noatime) |
| 02:20.29 | pigeon | ;) |
| 02:20.47 | hubick | i dunno, definitely beyond my limited understanding then |
| 02:20.48 | Thought | linuxargs must be something specific to the handheld? Normally passed in your boot loader, such as lilo or grub |
| 02:21.01 | hubick | Thought: exactly |
| 02:21.12 | hubick | it is in the compaq bootloader |
| 02:21.22 | Thought | the root= command is shown by ibot |
| 02:21.40 | Thought | how you change it .. well .. I don't have an iPaq - wish I did |
| 02:21.49 | Thought | feel free to mail me one :) |
| 02:21.58 | hubick | ibot: set linuxargs |
| 02:21.58 | | hubick: are you smoking crack? |
| 02:22.03 | hubick | ibot: set linuxargs? |
| 02:22.03 | | i haven't a clue, hubick |
| 02:22.16 | Thought | ibot: linuxargs? |
| 02:22.16 | | methinks linuxargs is set linuxargs "nortfm noinitrd noroot noinit noconsole" ;) or http://www.handhelds.org/ or in /boot/params or set linuxargs "noinitrd root=/dev/mtdblock1 init=/bin/sh console=ttySA0" |
| 02:22.28 | hubick | you can use set/show on them |
| 02:22.33 | hubick | at bootloader prompt |
| 02:22.42 | hubick | or edit /boot/params |
| 02:22.59 | hubick | ibot: /boot/params? |
| 02:22.59 | | i heard /boot/params is Search for /boot/params on Wiki (xchat screws the link I tried to put here...) |
| 02:23.18 | Thought | xchat screws a link? hmmm |
| 02:23.19 | Thought | odd |
| 02:23.58 | hubick | my xchat likes to core on channel list window :) |
| 02:25.02 | Thought | really? |
| 02:25.19 | Thought | wonder why |
| 02:25.20 | hubick | not every time, but it only ever dies when i'm in there |
| 02:25.22 | pigeon | Hmm there's a zombie on my ipaq |
| 02:25.36 | hubick | pigeon: it's haloween, leave it alone :) |
| 02:25.44 | pigeon | Heh |
| 02:25.45 | Thought | hubick: did you download a binary or build it yourself? |
| 02:26.06 | hubick | Thought: delivered by the nice people at Redhat with version 8 :) |
| 02:26.14 | pigeon | 9 ? ZN 0:00 [jffs2_gcd_mtd1 <defunct>] |
| 02:26.29 | pigeon | It happens everytime now. |
| 02:26.37 | Thought | Unix ... the wonderful OS where parents can kill children and make zombies |
| 02:27.10 | Thought | hubick: Ah - I havent messed with 8 - but the RPM on the xchat site is broken for me completely. Had to compile myself |
| 02:27.28 | Thought | and it STILL has a nasty bug when sending an ACTION in private |
| 02:27.35 | Thought | it makes another tab for that one action |
| 02:27.52 | hubick | Thought: i am just staring at the gtk 2 snapshot their right now :) |
| 02:28.00 | pigeon | Gar. |
| 02:28.01 | Thought | I tried it |
| 02:28.08 | Thought | the gtk2 version is getting there |
| 02:28.12 | pigeon | That zombie appears if I do that mount -o remount / |
| 02:28.14 | hubick | Thought: yay! |
| 02:28.33 | Thought | but if you make any config changes, you have to quit xchat and restart for them to take effect |
| 02:28.35 | pigeon | Maybe I shouldn't be doing that then. |
| 02:29.01 | hubick | I have high hopes for the linux of 8 months from now |
| 02:29.27 | hubick | when everyone has migrated to GTK 2, and we have 2.2 with Gnome 2.2 and Kernel 2.6 |
| 02:29.52 | hubick | And Mozilla/GTK 2 included in that |
| 02:31.17 | Thought | forget Mozilla .. only reason I want them to finish Mozilla/GTK2 is so that Galeon2 can be released |
| 02:31.34 | hubick | Thought: sure, that will do to |
| 02:31.44 | Thought | but I do hope they put back some of the stuff they've removed from GTK |
| 02:32.13 | hubick | I just hope the fundamental architecture is good enough to enable all that |
| 02:32.30 | Thought | like the taskbar applet .. you used to be able to right click a window name and send it a "Kill" signal to forcibly kill an application |
| 02:32.39 | Thought | thats been removed from the list |
| 02:32.54 | Thought | alot of the features of the panel have been just axed |
| 02:32.57 | hubick | Thought: you mean gnome 2 |
| 02:33.07 | Thought | yes, gnome 2 - sorry |
| 02:33.21 | Thought | its still a kludge |
| 02:33.26 | hubick | oh yeah, gnome 2 lacks features. yes. |
| 02:33.37 | hubick | i filed bugs and they fixing stuff though! |
| 02:33.45 | hubick | Nautilus pisses me off a lot |
| 02:33.52 | Thought | well |
| 02:33.53 | hubick | mainly, that the tree is useless |
| 02:34.02 | Thought | I rarely use it |
| 02:34.32 | hubick | though, they did fix the Gnome Search tool the way i wanted it in RFE i sent |
| 02:34.40 | Thought | I still prefer gmc honestly - gmc could handle rpms by installing them, upgrading them, or browsing inside the archive - handled tar and other archives nicely too |
| 02:34.40 | hubick | they added drag n drop |
| 02:34.59 | Thought | nautilus is badly bloated and slow, although the newest ones are MUCH faster |
| 02:35.15 | hubick | i have only run ones that came with RH8 |
| 02:35.36 | Thought | which version is it? |
| 02:35.51 | hubick | 2.06 |
| 02:36.13 | Thought | same one I have |
| 02:36.24 | Thought | the previous ones were about ¼ of the speed |
| 02:36.30 | hubick | the damn tree needs to track your main window dir changes |
| 02:36.52 | Thought | well, alot of the nice tabbed stuff on side panel are missing |
| 02:36.54 | hubick | and be opened to the dir that is your start dir when you launch it |
| 02:37.28 | hubick | and searching/medusa really needs to be fixed up and added back in |
| 02:37.44 | Thought | I used to not use the tree, I used the news panel instead .. but thats gone |
| 02:37.58 | hubick | i'm used to windows explorer |
| 02:38.10 | Thought | but the icons look prettier than ever - and thats what counts |
| 02:38.14 | Thought | I'm used to bash :) |
| 02:38.21 | hubick | apparently i am supposed to open two nautilus windows |
| 02:38.32 | hubick | and drag from one dir/window to the other |
| 02:38.46 | hubick | which i think is comlete horse shit |
| 02:38.56 | hubick | as for Bash...exactly...it's what i use mostly |
| 02:39.07 | Thought | before bash was GEM on my atari, and dragging between window was common, but opening a new window as a clone of the current one was easy |
| 02:39.08 | hubick | god praise Cygwin on Windows as well |
| 02:39.46 | Thought | heh |
| 02:39.58 | hubick | atari :) |
| 02:39.59 | Thought | I don't use windows for anything |
| 02:40.13 | hubick | i went out into the real world to make money |
| 02:40.18 | hubick | computing to get stuff done |
| 02:40.22 | hubick | rather than just for computings sake |
| 02:40.33 | hubick | windows, stuff just works |
| 02:40.42 | Thought | windows .. stuff just crashes |
| 02:40.54 | hubick | i hated windows - HATED - up until 2000 and XP, which actually half work |
| 02:40.56 | Thought | I wanted to get stuff done, so I stayed with Unix |
| 02:41.01 | hubick | XP does not crash |
| 02:41.06 | hubick | my uptime with XP is month |
| 02:41.07 | Thought | XP still sucks |
| 02:41.08 | hubick | Linux is days |
| 02:41.16 | hubick | linux crashes all the time |
| 02:41.20 | Thought | something is seriously wrong with your linux box |
| 02:41.27 | hubick | back in 93 when i first used to run it, fine |
| 02:41.32 | hubick | kernel runs fine |
| 02:41.36 | hubick | kernel is great |
| 02:41.42 | hubick | Gnome and apps die |
| 02:41.42 | Thought | you have bad ram or something |
| 02:41.47 | hubick | ECC ram |
| 02:41.56 | hubick | kernel don't crash, just apps |
| 02:41.56 | Thought | linux didn't crash them |
| 02:42.08 | Thought | linux did NOT crash .. the application didn't |
| 02:42.19 | Thought | er |
| 02:42.20 | Thought | are |
| 02:42.22 | Thought | did |
| 02:42.31 | hubick | actually, my kernel does lock as well |
| 02:42.37 | Thought | bet it didn't |
| 02:42.41 | hubick | X likes to lock it |
| 02:42.49 | Thought | X doesn't lock the kernel |
| 02:43.00 | Thought | its possible that X can hang |
| 02:43.05 | Thought | but it doesn't hang the kernel |
| 02:43.19 | hubick | well, something is poking it the wrong way |
| 02:43.26 | Thought | you can still log in via the network, or a serial port, kill X, and restart X |
| 02:43.32 | hubick | no |
| 02:43.36 | hubick | not sometimes |
| 02:43.47 | hubick | i'm not that dumb |
| 02:43.55 | hubick | use linux since 93 |
| 02:43.55 | Thought | then you have a VERY serious problem with your machine |
| 02:44.11 | hubick | kernel locks are /rare/ |
| 02:44.24 | hubick | and i think device drivers |
| 02:44.26 | Thought | I've seen linux keep on going even on faulty hardware |
| 02:44.47 | hubick | i think dual head is responsible for large numbers of gnome/application/and X locks |
| 02:44.55 | Thought | have yet to see a real crash that wasn't my own fault from using developer releases, my own hacking, or the wrong CPU set |
| 02:45.05 | hubick | i use dual head and dual CPI |
| 02:45.07 | hubick | CPU |
| 02:45.24 | Thought | what kind of video card? |
| 02:45.32 | hubick | nvidia and matrox |
| 02:45.57 | Thought | nvidia drivers from Xfree or from Nvidia? |
| 02:46.01 | hubick | xfree |
| 02:46.15 | hubick | which don't work worth crap with my DVI either |
| 02:46.27 | hubick | well, matrox does |
| 02:46.36 | Thought | still, Xfree doesn't recommend the usage of different cards when doing dual-head |
| 02:46.37 | hubick | nv doesn't like it |
| 02:46.42 | hubick | sure it does |
| 02:46.51 | hubick | that's how most everyone does it |
| 02:46.55 | Thought | you can do it, but they say you'll have more problems |
| 02:47.07 | hubick | problems |
| 02:47.26 | Thought | I'd try the drivers from nvidia .. see if they work any better |
| 02:47.38 | hubick | i'm againsed binary closed source |
| 02:47.46 | hubick | if i can avoid it |
| 02:48.09 | hubick | i think gnome is biggest problem, but they are working on dual head for gtk and gnome 2.2 |
| 02:48.32 | Thought | so am I .. but if I got a GeForce4 or something, I don't think you could use the Xfree drivers and have it work, and if it did work, you'd be paying alot for a card you can't take full advantage of |
| 02:48.50 | hubick | i gots gf 4 in other box |
| 02:48.51 | Thought | and its odd that you are against closed source drivers, but like XP |
| 02:48.53 | hubick | not linux box |
| 02:49.16 | hubick | i like XP from a usage perspective, not a political one |
| 02:49.27 | Thought | lol |
| 02:49.44 | Thought | I hate XP from both - I tried to use it once and it got in my way |
| 02:49.53 | hubick | you have to configure it a lot |
| 02:49.54 | Thought | swore at it the whole time |
| 02:50.06 | hubick | you can shut off most all the crap |
| 02:50.26 | Thought | the difference between windows and linux is simple |
| 02:50.26 | hubick | XP out of the box is shit |
| 02:50.32 | Thought | I tell linux to do something it does it |
| 02:50.48 | Thought | I tell windows what to do and it gives a wizard that tries to guess what I mean |
| 02:50.49 | hubick | i tell Xchat i want a channel list, it dissapears half the time |
| 02:51.12 | hubick | i tell mozilla i want ZDnet, it goes poof and dissapears |
| 02:51.24 | hubick | i can't tell nautilus i want to search for a file |
| 02:51.31 | Thought | compile xchat yourself, the rpm is buggy |
| 02:51.37 | hubick | i copy something, close the app, then paste...it doesn't work |
| 02:51.38 | Thought | mozilla is a dog, try galeon |
| 02:51.53 | Thought | use bash |
| 02:52.04 | hubick | i don't want to use bash |
| 02:52.09 | Thought | I do |
| 02:52.15 | hubick | if i was happy with bash, i wouldn't put X on at all |
| 02:52.21 | hubick | back to linux 93 |
| 02:52.44 | Thought | guis have there place - file management isn't one of them |
| 02:52.53 | hubick | i think it is |
| 02:52.57 | Thought | I type too damn fast to waste my time with a rat |
| 02:53.13 | hubick | i can ctrl+click 10 files out of a big dir, and drag em to another one WAY faster than i can do that in bash |
| 02:53.22 | Thought | I use because I need the overlapping windows to seperate my attension |
| 02:54.10 | Thought | just finding the files is a pain with a GUI .. waiting on icons and shit .. I can type part of the name and TAB the rest or use wildcards or regexs |
| 02:54.16 | hubick | search my pub_htm dir for *.xml, drag results to editor which opens in tabs...forget that in bash |
| 02:54.35 | hubick | yeah, you might deal with 1 file, i usually deal with 15 |
| 02:54.46 | Thought | cd pub[TAB]; vi *.xml |
| 02:55.07 | hubick | not every one, open only 10 out of 25 xml results? |
| 02:55.19 | Thought | which 10? |
| 02:55.24 | hubick | pick from list |
| 02:55.39 | hubick | you know some of them don't have meta tag you need to change or whatever |
| 02:55.44 | Thought | I can type it faster than clicking them |
| 02:55.55 | hubick | you a wizard on the keyboard then |
| 02:55.59 | hubick | your choice |
| 02:56.01 | hubick | i like GUI |
| 02:56.06 | Thought | type as fast as I talk |
| 02:56.06 | hubick | you like VI! |
| 02:56.18 | hubick | i like normal editors |
| 02:56.24 | Thought | <-- Unix admin |
| 02:56.34 | hubick | where i can delete a line by going shift+down, del |
| 02:56.49 | Thought | faster for me to just hit d twice |
| 02:57.07 | gco_ | just use ctrl-k |
| 02:57.12 | hubick | my problem is i have a really crappy memory |
| 02:57.18 | hubick | i always forget commands for crap |
| 02:57.19 | Thought | wanna delete 10 lines? its just 10d |
| 02:57.40 | hubick | i like "discovery" as a gui principle |
| 02:57.41 | Thought | how many key presses is that with a regular editor? |
| 02:58.06 | hubick | 12 key presses |
| 02:58.18 | hubick | grab mouse for that many |
| 02:58.20 | gco_ | emacs is the only editor |
| 02:58.21 | Thought | vs 3 |
| 02:58.25 | Thought | ack |
| 02:58.29 | hubick | uh oh, here we go :) |
| 02:58.34 | Thought | not going there |
| 02:58.40 | gco_ | :-) |
| 02:58.50 | Thought | bigger than my OS with its own programming language. I don't do LISP |
| 02:58.50 | hubick | i already said i liked windows, wasn't that enough |
| 02:59.19 | gco_ | You don't need to know lisp. That's mostly for extending the editor. Try that with notepad. |
| 02:59.34 | Thought | btw, a fun way to learn vi, is using gvim ... its a good mix |
| 02:59.48 | Thought | notepad is just a textbox widget with a save command |
| 02:59.59 | hubick | can i do shift+down, del to kill a line? |
| 03:00.14 | HET2 | hmmm |
| 03:00.25 | gco_ | You can make emacs work any way you want. Use Xemacs for a version a Windows user would like. |
| 03:00.28 | Thought | not shift-down, but you can highlight a line with either regular vi commands or the rat and hit DEL |
| 03:00.34 | HET2 | /usr/lib/ipkg # ntpdate 137.92.140.80 |
| 03:00.34 | HET2 | 2 Nov 10:59:45 ntpdate[569]: step time server 137.92.140.80 offset 3153.565341 |
| 03:00.34 | HET2 | sec |
| 03:00.34 | HET2 | /usr/lib/ipkg # run_sbin_pm_helper:71 pm_helper_path=/sbin/pm_helper |
| 03:00.34 | HET2 | ide0: unexpected interrupt, status=0x00, count=1 |
| 03:00.35 | HET2 | rtc_pm_callback: pm callback 0 RTSR=00000000 ICPR=00000000 |
| 03:00.45 | HET2 | ntpdate crashed my system |
| 03:00.45 | HET2 | :) |
| 03:01.26 | Thought | HET2: looks like it was a faulty ide .. but submit a bug report |
| 03:01.34 | hubick | Thought: unless i can do shift down thing, forget it...i want editor with normal highlighting |
| 03:01.44 | hubick | normal == every other damn editor in the world other than vi and emacs |
| 03:01.49 | Thought | ick - too many key presses |
| 03:02.21 | hubick | I'm using Anjuta and Gedit right now |
| 03:02.33 | HET2 | Thought: i dont know if it is a bug... |
| 03:02.35 | hubick | thinking of giving Eclipse a try |
| 03:02.36 | Thought | do they do syntax highlighting? |
| 03:02.37 | HET2 | Thought: i cant reproduce it |
| 03:02.40 | gco_ | Xemacs does that out of the box. So it's normal (by your definition) |
| 03:03.04 | hubick | gco_: does it? |
| 03:03.10 | gco_ | Of course. Xemacs is the editor that does *everything*, you can stop asking questions like that. |
| 03:03.15 | gco_ | :-) |
| 03:03.19 | HET2 | <flame war> vim is so much better than emacs </flame war> |
| 03:03.20 | hubick | gco_: will it do ctrl+x and friends |
| 03:03.34 | Thought | HET2: if you system crashed, report it to the kernel maintaners ... anything that causes a kernel panic should be looked into |
| 03:03.45 | HET2 | Thought: it wasnt a kernel panic |
| 03:03.48 | gco_ | If you want to use those bizarre keys, yes. |
| 03:04.02 | Thought | HET2: what in your system crashed? |
| 03:04.26 | HET2 | Thought: it froze |
| 03:04.35 | Thought | close enough - report it |
| 03:04.38 | HET2 | hehe |
| 03:04.39 | HET2 | okay |
| 03:04.53 | HET2 | ibot, bugs |
| 03:04.54 | Thought | with as much info as you can give em - see if it made any entries in the message log too |
| 03:05.07 | HET2 | ibot, bug report |
| 03:05.07 | | bug report is, like, http://www.handhelds.org/bugzilla |
| 03:05.42 | HET2 | Thought: the logs are on ramfs |
| 03:05.51 | HET2 | Thought: and since i had to reboot it is obvious they are gone :) |
| 03:05.56 | Thought | ah |
| 03:06.26 | hubick | i finally got my ipaq configured the way i like it...boots straight into Links |
| 03:06.32 | HET2 | hrm |
| 03:06.37 | HET2 | what was the url to mantis' bugviewer |
| 03:06.50 | HET2 | hubick: whats links |
| 03:07.03 | Thought | well, for people learning vi, I recommend gvim, since the menu short-cuts are the actual vi commands, so you can tear-off the menus and see the vi keys and learn them as you use them |
| 03:07.15 | hubick | HET2: a curses web browser |
| 03:07.25 | HET2 | hubick: why would you want your ipaq to boot into links |
| 03:07.34 | Thought | I don't like links .. ever see w3m? |
| 03:07.42 | Thought | w3m handles tables and frames |
| 03:07.51 | hubick | Thought: so does Links |
| 03:08.01 | hubick | HET2: i use ipaq as robot controller |
| 03:08.04 | Thought | don't you mean lynx? |
| 03:08.16 | hubick | Thought: no |
| 03:08.33 | hubick | Links kicks Lynx's ass |
| 03:08.33 | HET2 | links is better than lynx |
| 03:08.58 | HET2 | i wish there was something like dillo for qt... |
| 03:08.58 | hubick | HET2: i don't want overhead of GPE/OPIE |
| 03:09.15 | hubick | i have links set to launch shell scripts |
| 03:09.25 | hubick | so i can have special boot.html file with links to scripts |
| 03:09.31 | HET2 | hubick: hmm so you've no window manager? |
| 03:09.32 | hubick | which i can launch to run my robot control software /etc |
| 03:09.41 | hubick | all with NO keyboard |
| 03:09.41 | Thought | I like the layout and coloring of w3m |
| 03:09.50 | hubick | no typing, no login |
| 03:10.00 | HET2 | Thought: my ipaq is b&w :) so colors are not an issue |
| 03:10.05 | Thought | ah |
| 03:10.13 | hubick | Links does color well |
| 03:10.20 | hubick | Links even uses page colors |
| 03:10.28 | Thought | looks like links uses less screen space than w3m |
| 03:11.05 | hubick | Thought: you have to enable color |
| 03:11.15 | Thought | I see |
| 03:11.36 | HET2 | hmm |
| 03:11.46 | HET2 | as far as i remember there were 2 spreadsheet tools in opie |
| 03:11.53 | HET2 | i just forgot which was the usable one |
| 03:11.57 | hubick | open office? :) |
| 03:11.59 | dondiego | hi all! |
| 03:12.03 | dondiego | anyone up? |
| 03:12.05 | hubick | hello dondiego |
| 03:12.14 | dondiego | hi hubick |
| 03:12.33 | dondiego | i've come here to get some help, as u might have guessed...hehe |
| 03:12.36 | Thought | for spreadsheets I use gnumeric, but I guess there isn't a port for opie |
| 03:13.04 | hubick | thinks with GNU in them don't usually use QT |
| 03:13.47 | hubick | dondiego: i know next to nothing. if you are lucky you might hit one one of the two or three simple things i do know :) |
| 03:14.43 | Thought | yup |
| 03:15.47 | hubick | Thought: you confirming my next to nothing? :) |
| 03:16.15 | Thought | nope - other statement |
| 03:16.28 | hubick | :) |
| 03:17.16 | dondiego | i have a problem with konqueror on my 3870... |
| 03:17.38 | hubick | yep, that would be a miss most likely :-) |
| 03:17.52 | dondiego | does it tilt somewhere in ur head hubick? |
| 03:17.52 | dondiego | lol |
| 03:17.55 | hubick | me being the console ipaq running weirdo |
| 03:18.55 | hubick | i just try to take care of some of the low hanging fruit questions to help unburden the main developers |
| 03:19.05 | dondiego | haha |
| 03:19.25 | dc__ | thank god |
| 03:19.46 | dondiego | that's a console problem though: i can open an url when typing it in the address bar of the browser, but not when calling the proggy from the command line |
| 03:19.52 | hubick | do my time answering peon questions as i work myself up from newbie |
| 03:20.58 | hubick | dc__++ |
| 03:21.23 | dondiego | could u help me dc? |
| 03:21.48 | dc__ | dondiego: :/ |
| 03:21.57 | dc__ | dondiego: I spose I could try |
| 03:22.05 | hubick | dondiego: does doing the same work with konq on yer desktop? |
| 03:22.05 | dondiego | cool |
| 03:22.11 | dondiego | did u read my problem? |
| 03:22.27 | dc__ | heh |
| 03:22.34 | dondiego | haven't tried that yet hubick |
| 03:22.38 | dc__ | dondiego: so it looks like a qpe/opie problem then? |
| 03:22.46 | dondiego | really dc? |
| 03:22.52 | dc__ | welll |
| 03:22.56 | Thought | hmm ... I like w3m better for screen layout and navigation, but it hangs on yahoo mail on the first refresh, doesn't lock, just doesn't display it. links works. hmm |
| 03:22.57 | dondiego | don't know |
| 03:22.58 | hubick | dondiego: it doesn't need some --loadthis option |
| 03:23.02 | dc__ | dondiego: explain the exact problem to me... |
| 03:23.27 | dondiego | ok |
| 03:23.45 | dondiego | i'm running familiar 0.5.3 on an ipaq 3870 |
| 03:23.56 | dondiego | i connect to the net using bluetooth |
| 03:24.20 | hubick | 0.5.3 is sooo MAY. we have 0.6 now you kow :) |
| 03:24.34 | dc__ | and you're using opie/qpe? |
| 03:24.45 | dondiego | yup |
| 03:25.08 | dondiego | i can browse the internet with konqueror when first launching it and then writing the url in the url bar |
| 03:25.13 | dc__ | I'm the last person to ask then, try a guy who likes qpe/opie better :) |
| 03:25.19 | hubick | Thought: does w3m let you use mouse in xterms? |
| 03:25.19 | dc__ | dondiego: like #opie :] |
| 03:25.28 | Thought | hubick: yes |
| 03:26.16 | dondiego | BUT when i type, say "konqueror http://the_url_i_want_to_access.com", i get an error |
| 03:26.37 | Thought | what error? |
| 03:26.50 | hubick | "I am sorry, i think that web site sucks, and don't want to load it" |
| 03:26.56 | dondiego | it says "malformed file URL" |
| 03:27.04 | dondiego | lol hubick |
| 03:27.17 | hubick | file url? |
| 03:27.20 | hubick | thats weird |
| 03:27.21 | dondiego | it seems to try to open a file, instead of a distant url |
| 03:27.28 | dondiego | oops |
| 03:27.35 | dondiego | malformed url file |
| 03:27.36 | dondiego | hehe |
| 03:28.16 | hubick | you forget a slash or somethin? |
| 03:28.23 | dondiego | no one is using a web browser down here? |
| 03:28.30 | Thought | I tried it |
| 03:28.38 | Thought | the desktop version with KDE works |
| 03:28.38 | dondiego | i tried all the ways i could think of hubick |
| 03:28.39 | hubick | half of those awake using Links now :) |
| 03:28.53 | dondiego | lol |
| 03:28.57 | dc__ | or galeon 2 :D |
| 03:29.13 | hubick | dc__ is 3l337 |
| 03:29.25 | dondiego | i want a graphical browser though...hehe |
| 03:29.39 | dc__ | indeed, compiling mozilla is an adventure of its own |
| 03:29.47 | Thought | I haven't done that yet |
| 03:29.47 | hubick | i told Thought i wanted a graphical file manager, he told me i wanted VI |
| 03:29.53 | hubick | and bash |
| 03:29.59 | dondiego | thought : u can run konqueror or konq-e |
| 03:30.00 | dondiego | ? |
| 03:30.28 | Thought | konqueror worked fine .. but again .. I'm on a desktop, not an ipaq |
| 03:30.36 | dc__ | hubick: gpe-filemanager yay |
| 03:30.37 | dc__ | heh |
| 03:30.59 | HET2 | hi dc |
| 03:31.05 | dondiego | me too, on my desktop the regular konqueror works perfectly |
| 03:31.08 | hubick | dondiego: have you considered upgrading to 0.6 and possibly seeing what all those guys have been doing for 6 months? |
| 03:31.22 | hubick | which might include fixing your bug |
| 03:31.31 | dondiego | but the embedded version has this problem on ipaq |
| 03:32.01 | dondiego | actually, that's my last hope solution hubick |
| 03:32.34 | dondiego | how do u suggest me to proceed:erase all and reinstall a clean system, or just upgrade? |
| 03:32.47 | hubick | obiwan, you are my only hope. 0.6 upgrade you will young padewan :) |
| 03:32.56 | dc__ | HET2: morning |
| 03:33.01 | HET2 | dondiego: whatch out dude |
| 03:33.05 | HET2 | dondiego: they use a new libc |
| 03:33.13 | HET2 | dondiego: if you upgrade just like that all will stop working |
| 03:33.53 | hubick | yeah, and you also may wish to use the new bootloader too |
| 03:33.59 | dondiego | yup there's some explanation on how to upgrade on the handheld site |
| 03:34.00 | hubick | which all adds up to major work |
| 03:34.28 | hubick | all of which will be for naught when you need to reinstall for the 0.7 as well, when they move to GCC 3.2 |
| 03:34.33 | dondiego | so last question: how do i erase all and restart, err... right from the start? |
| 03:35.09 | hubick | dondiego: follow directions...but basically...iflash new bootloader, then flash new root image |
| 03:35.26 | hubick | s/iflash/flash |
| 03:35.35 | HET2 | hubick: oh man... 0.7... |
| 03:35.44 | HET2 | hubick: any idea how long it will be before that comes out |
| 03:35.51 | hubick | HET2: nope. |
| 03:35.58 | HET2 | i hope like... LONG |
| 03:36.30 | hubick | HET2: i heard nelson telling jamey how cool the new build system's gonna be too |
| 03:36.44 | hubick | they build all from source |
| 03:36.59 | hubick | i hope like , tomorrow |
| 03:37.00 | hubick | ! |
| 03:37.23 | hubick | i had to hack and slash my C++ code to get it to built on this 1997 libc++ |
| 03:37.31 | dondiego | can i execute bootblaster from linux? |
| 03:37.48 | hubick | dondiego: i believe the bootloader will upgrade itself |
| 03:37.50 | dondiego | i mean, from familiar, not pocketpc something? |
| 03:38.04 | hubick | you issue bootloader a command, and it will download a new bootloader over serial |
| 03:38.33 | dondiego | where can i find info about this precedure hubick please? |
| 03:38.37 | dondiego | procedure |
| 03:39.04 | hubick | http://familiar.handhelds.org/releases/v0.6/ |
| 03:39.21 | hubick | http://familiar.handhelds.org/releases/v0.6/install/upgrade.html |
| 03:39.22 | dondiego | thx a lot |
| 03:39.25 | hubick | in particular |
| 03:39.38 | dondiego | btw, what GUI do u suggest me to use? |
| 03:39.43 | hubick | see...that's the low hanging fruit i like to take care of :) |
| 03:39.57 | dondiego | opie is not the "best" choice? |
| 03:40.06 | hubick | i think opie might be the best choice |
| 03:40.17 | hubick | i have heard that GPE has maturity problems |
| 03:40.24 | hubick | == stability issues |
| 03:40.36 | dondiego | basically, i want to be able to: have a graphical interface, use bluetooth, use irda and a graphical web browser |
| 03:40.37 | hubick | i don't run either, so i can't speak |
| 03:40.55 | hubick | dondiego: Microsoft Power PC 2002 :-) |
| 03:40.57 | dondiego | ok thx |
| 03:41.08 | dondiego | lol |
| 03:41.18 | hubick | Pocket PC even |
| 03:41.29 | dondiego | lol X2 |
| 03:42.02 | dondiego | gotta go eat smth...catch you in 20 minutes guys |
| 03:42.13 | hubick | i gonna sleep, so i TTYL |
| 03:42.19 | hubick | good luck with upgrade |
| 03:43.41 | Thought | ok - I've decided to build a cross compiler |
| 03:43.43 | Thought | *sigh* |
| 03:43.46 | Thought | this is gonna be a pain |
| 03:43.56 | Thought | and will be work for the morning |
| 03:44.02 | hubick | heh |
| 03:44.04 | Thought | g'night all |
| 03:44.09 | hubick | gnight, nice talkin |
| 03:44.46 | Thought | this will all be for nothing if I can't get the docs I need for this thing. I wanna try putting Linux on a cybiko ... www.cybiko.com |
| 03:49.52 | dondiego | back! |
| 03:49.53 | dondiego | hehe |
| 03:50.03 | dondiego | couldn't eat so i came back |
| 04:01.55 | dondiego | HET2, still here? |
| 04:02.15 | HET2 | sure |
| 04:03.38 | dondiego | cool |
| 04:04.11 | dondiego | when following the instructions on how to upgrade from 0.5.3, i get errors... |
| 04:04.29 | dondiego | isn't there a safe way to erase all and redo all? |
| 04:04.53 | dondiego | assuming that i'm running familiar at the moment, not pocket pc |
| 04:05.33 | HET2 | well |
| 04:05.36 | HET2 | you can reflash |
| 04:05.45 | HET2 | but first backup your useful data :) |
| 04:05.49 | dondiego | oh ok, i made a mistake in some file... |
| 04:06.19 | dondiego | but anyway, i prefer to restart from scratch, to have a clean toy...hehe |
| 04:06.29 | dondiego | how do i reflash |
| 04:06.32 | dondiego | ? |
| 04:06.37 | HET2 | there are howtos |
| 04:06.38 | HET2 | :) |
| 04:06.54 | dondiego | really? |
| 04:07.00 | dondiego | damn, didn't find them |
| 04:07.11 | dondiego | maybe because i didn;t look for them...hehe |
| 04:12.04 | dondiego | damn i'm lost... |
| 04:12.42 | dondiego | don't know how to reflash, what to do after a reflash to reinstall the stuff... |
| 04:12.46 | dondiego | help!!! |
| 04:13.38 | dondiego | please HET2... |
| 04:13.53 | HET2 | ftp://ftp.handhelds.org/pub/linux/compaq/ipaq/stable/update.html |
| 04:13.55 | HET2 | dude |
| 04:14.00 | HET2 | read the howtos |
| 04:15.15 | dondiego | thx bro |
| 04:19.22 | HET2 | dondiego: http://handhelds.org/download/familiar/ |
| 04:19.23 | HET2 | that one is better |
| 04:19.51 | HET2 | http://handhelds.org/download/familiar/releases/v0.6/install/upgrade.html |
| 04:19.55 | HET2 | for 0.5.3 to 0.6 |
| 04:21.52 | dondiego | really? |
| 04:22.01 | dondiego | does it erase all and then reinstall? |
| 04:22.27 | dondiego | that's what i want |
| 04:23.05 | HET2 | heh dude |
| 04:23.09 | HET2 | who installed your linux for you |
| 04:23.28 | HET2 | i dont know the procedure by heart |
| 04:23.32 | HET2 | i would have to read up myself |
| 04:23.39 | HET2 | and i am not going to read so you can be lazy |
| 04:23.48 | dondiego | ? |
| 04:24.31 | dondiego | no i mean: do u know if upgrading will result in a full clean system? |
| 04:24.50 | HET2 | most probably wont |
| 04:25.01 | dondiego | i have installed linux myself, but never reinstalled it, that's why i'm a by worried |
| 04:25.02 | HET2 | read up on installing 0.6 |
| 04:25.11 | HET2 | it is basically the same process |
| 04:25.16 | HET2 | just without the nasty wince part |
| 04:25.39 | HET2 | you also might want to upgrade your bootldr i guess |
| 04:25.52 | dondiego | that's what i'm trying to do |
| 04:26.01 | dondiego | but i don't know the last vresion of it |
| 04:26.21 | HET2 | i dont know either |
| 04:26.24 | HET2 | ibot, bootldr |
| 04:26.24 | | recommended, stable bootldr is 2.18.48, found at http://www.handhelds.org/feeds/bootldr or at http://cvs.handhelds.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/bootldr/ for cvsweb access |
| 04:26.44 | HET2 | the trick is not to know stuff |
| 04:26.48 | HET2 | the trick is to use your eyeballs |
| 04:28.03 | dondiego | i'm a bit in a hurry at the moment het2 |
| 04:28.19 | dondiego | that's why i rely on people's words... |
| 04:32.54 | dondiego | ibot, zImage |
| 04:32.54 | | dondiego: I give up, what is it? |
| 04:33.07 | dondiego | damn, doesn't work with me |
| 04:33.11 | HET2 | dondiego: if you are in a hurry then stick to your old version |
| 04:33.22 | HET2 | ibot, kernel |
| 04:33.40 | HET2 | works |
| 04:33.45 | HET2 | :0 |
| 04:34.00 | dondiego | ibot, kernel |
| 04:34.23 | dondiego | true |
| 04:34.23 | dondiego | hehe |
| 04:34.37 | dondiego | ibot, bootldr |
| 04:34.37 | | recommended, stable bootldr is 2.18.48, found at http://www.handhelds.org/feeds/bootldr or at http://cvs.handhelds.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/bootldr/ for cvsweb access |
| 04:34.51 | dondiego | ibot, fs |
| 04:34.51 | | dondiego: I'm not sure, is it larger than a breadbox? |
| 04:34.58 | dondiego | lol |
| 04:35.17 | dondiego | ibot, help |
| 04:35.40 | HET2 | ibot, ext3 |
| 04:35.40 | | HET2: I don't know, could you explain it? |
| 04:35.43 | HET2 | hmm |
| 04:44.01 | dan_t | hello |
| 04:44.11 | dan_t | dondiego: can you help me with bluetooth ? |
| 04:44.32 | dondiego | yup |
| 04:44.43 | dondiego | this i can...hehe |
| 04:45.14 | dan_t | dondiego: i have an ipaq with M$ pocket pc and i'm trying to connect it to my linux box with bluettoth |
| 04:45.49 | dondiego | lol |
| 04:45.56 | dan_t | dondiego: at hte first time i have tried to set up bnep but pocket pc donesn't support it (possible ??) |
| 04:45.58 | dondiego | didn't know u were using ms... |
| 04:46.20 | dan_t | so i have tryed to configure dund |
| 04:46.28 | dan_t | for using LAN profile |
| 04:46.46 | dan_t | but i'm unable to make it work |
| 04:47.11 | dan_t | theproblem i think is that there is no /dev/rfcomm0 device |
| 04:47.20 | dan_t | but i don't know how create it |
| 04:47.41 | dondiego | i can help u with bluetooth on linux, but as for windows... |
| 04:49.40 | dan_t | dondiego: i think the problem is on linux side... |
| 04:49.41 | dondiego | check the linux side; problems often come from there |
| 04:49.49 | dondiego | lol |
| 04:50.11 | dondiego | which version of bluez do u use? |
| 04:50.35 | dan_t | the latest from the site |
| 04:51.00 | dondiego | do u start the hcid daemon? |
| 04:51.04 | dan_t | yes |
| 04:51.34 | dondiego | what have u managed to do so far? |
| 04:51.45 | dan_t | i get this error from dund: /dev/rfcomm0 open failed No such file or directory(2) |
| 04:51.47 | dondiego | can u discover the LAN access point? |
| 04:52.31 | dan_t | yes i can connect to it but the LAN connections is not initialized: |
| 04:52.41 | dan_t | Nov 2 12:36:25 grinta dund[24481]: PTY opened: /dev/rfcomm0 |
| 04:52.41 | dan_t | Nov 2 12:36:25 grinta dund[24481]: New connection from 00:02:C7:0C:D3:24 |
| 04:52.46 | dan_t | Nov 2 12:36:25 grinta dund[24482]: /dev/rfcomm0 open failed No such file or directory(2) |
| 04:53.57 | dondiego | afraid i can't help u much... |
| 04:54.07 | dondiego | not used tu using the dund daemon |
| 04:54.19 | dan_t | dondiego: do you have an /dev/rfcomm0 device ?? |
| 04:54.48 | dondiego | don't know; i'm under windows at the moment... |
| 04:56.14 | dondiego | what is the goal of ur app? |
| 04:56.35 | dondiego | do u want to create an adhoc network? |
| 04:56.47 | dondiego | or just a point to point connection? |
| 04:56.57 | dondiego | with 1 servre and 1 client? |
| 04:59.48 | dan_t | dondiego: i want to create a ptp for the moment |
| 05:01.53 | dondiego | then don't use dund |
| 05:02.06 | dondiego | just run rfcommd and pppd |
| 05:03.15 | dan_t | the right way to do this is to use dund so i want make it work |
| 05:03.18 | dan_t | :) |
| 05:03.37 | dondiego | check this page, it should help u: http://www.harbaum.org/till/palm/bluetooth/index.html |
| 05:03.52 | dan_t | dondiego: about that can you explain me how to setup rfcommd ? |
| 05:04.28 | HET2 | hmm |
| 05:04.33 | dondiego | i use rfcommd and ppp, and i can surf the net from my ipaq using my linux box as a LAP |
| 05:04.33 | HET2 | it would be rather fun if qtawt compiles |
| 05:04.44 | dondiego | lol het2 |
| 05:07.32 | dan_t | dondiego: but now rfcommd is made obsolete from rfcomm kernel support |
| 05:07.50 | dan_t | dondiego: i have no rfcommd daemon installed |
| 05:08.06 | dondiego | i have rfcommd1.2 |
| 05:08.11 | dondiego | and it works fine |
| 05:08.24 | dondiego | just follow the link i have pasted |
| 05:08.43 | dondiego | follow the steps and u'll get to what u want bro |
| 05:16.08 | dondiego | got to go guys |
| 05:16.10 | dondiego | c ya! |
| 05:20.04 | dan_t | dondiego-away: |
| 05:22.36 | zecke | HET2: qtawt for kaffee? |
| 05:32.24 | HET2 | zecke: qtawt which comes with kdejava |
| 05:32.32 | HET2 | zecke: problem is i cant make it compile... |
| 07:04.34 | brainless | wb spiralman |
| 07:04.40 | spiralman | hey |
| 07:08.28 | iCEBaLM | hi |
| 07:12.18 | dan_t | hello |
| 07:12.30 | dan_t | there is someone here that can help me with bluetooth ? |
| 07:12.58 | nchip | what do you want to do |
| 07:14.19 | dan_t | nchip: i must connect my ipaq to my linux box with bluettoh |
| 07:14.33 | dan_t | nchip: ipaq is running windows pocketpc |
| 07:14.58 | dan_t | i have tried dund and fwcommd without succes. i get only errors |
| 07:15.07 | nchip | dan_t, this channel focuses on running linux on ipaq |
| 07:15.29 | dan_t | nchip: i know but i get errors on linux side so i think that someone can help me |
| 07:15.38 | nchip | i have no knoledge on pocketpc's bluetooth implementation |
| 07:16.02 | dan_t | nchip: i have plans to put linux on my ipaq but .... this is not my ipaq |
| 07:16.04 | nchip | have searched bluez mailinglist archives? |
| 07:16.28 | dan_t | nchip: sure but without succes |
| 07:16.48 | iCEBaLM | bluetooth rocks |
| 07:16.55 | zecke | iCEBaLM: yes it does |
| 07:17.10 | zecke | the good ole danish viking king bluetooth rocks ;) |
| 07:17.23 | iCEBaLM | wish it had a little more bandwidth, I want bluetooth headphones |
| 07:17.37 | dan_t | so there is someone that can help me ? |
| 07:17.57 | dan_t | is two days that i work on that without succes |
| 07:18.24 | iCEBaLM | dan_t: you should probably ask in #bluez |
| 07:18.27 | dan_t | there is here someone that have successfully configured dund ? |
| 07:21.14 | dan_t | nchip: have you sucessfully configured dund or fwcommd or fwcomm ?? |
| 07:21.46 | nchip | dan_t, i have just usen pand an rfcomm |
| 07:22.00 | nchip | and rfcomm with mobile phone |
| 07:22.19 | dan_t | nchip: rfcomm to connect ipaq to your linux box ? |
| 07:23.00 | nchip | ipaq(linux) -> mobile phone |
| 07:26.54 | dan_t | nchip: so you have used rfcomm as client and not as server ? |
| 07:27.53 | nchip | dan_t, excactly. |
| 08:26.44 | Fangal | Ive just installet opie with familiar, my first try didnt work out at all since there wasent any fonts. But with the updated one i got it right, but i havent been able to coonect to it with qutopia desktop. Anyone got this working ?? Or should i try some other way ?? |
| 08:27.40 | Nermal | uh |
| 08:27.53 | Nermal | I got it working with the latest beta of qtopia desktop |
| 08:28.12 | Nermal | and I'm also running the unstable feed of opie, though I'm not sure if that makes a difference |
| 08:28.36 | Nermal | what ver of qtopia desktop are you using ? |
| 08:28.50 | Fangal | is this in linux or windows ? |
| 08:29.06 | Fangal | its version 1.6.0 |
| 08:30.33 | Nermal | linux |
| 08:30.47 | Nermal | you need to use the latest beta for both windows and linux |
| 08:30.52 | Nermal | what are you using ? |
| 08:31.33 | Fangal | ok, so there is a later version than 1.6.0 then ? |
| 08:31.38 | Nermal | there are betas |
| 08:31.43 | Nermal | you using doze or linux ? |
| 08:32.20 | Fangal | well ill tryed in booth, i have windows in mmy laptop and linux in my workstation so i want it to work in both |
| 08:32.30 | Nermal | ftp://ftp.trolltech.com/qtopia/source/QtopiaDesktopSetupBeta2.exe |
| 08:32.34 | Nermal | theres the windows one |
| 08:33.20 | Fangal | ah ok well its the one i use |
| 08:34.53 | Nermal | ftp://ftp.trolltech.com/qtopia/source/qtopia-desktop-1.6.0beta2-1.i386.rpm |
| 08:34.58 | Nermal | is the linux one |
| 08:35.03 | Nermal | and it should work ok |
| 08:35.16 | Nermal | check under the security settings underthe preferences tabv |
| 08:35.25 | Nermal | make sure you are allowing syncs |
| 08:35.38 | Fangal | ah ok, will check right again |
| 08:35.46 | Fangal | know i mean ;) |
| 08:37.27 | Fangal | hmmm i wonder, i dont have any security settings. Could it be that some packages are missing ? |
| 08:50.23 | Fangal | isnt there anywone who installed latest familiar with opie ? And tried to syncronize with qtopia desktop ? |
| 08:50.43 | flypiper|work | Fangal: try #opie |
| 08:51.04 | Fangal | ah ok i will try there thanks |
| 10:42.07 | Rcast | Hello, does anybody have some advice they can give me on native compiling on the ipaq, i.e. installing gcc to the ipaq. |
| 10:45.19 | HET2 | Rcast: this is going to take a LOT of space |
| 10:47.08 | Rcast | HET2: Yeah i have a 256 compact flash card which i can use for the purpose, i not quite sure how to start wether it is better to try to install intimate to it or wether i can do it from familiar. |
| 10:50.11 | HET2 | Rcast: i am not sure 256mb are enough :) |
| 10:50.23 | HET2 | Rcast: well i have 128mb and that wasnt enough |
| 10:50.28 | HET2 | Rcast: i forgot how much is enough though |
| 10:50.35 | HET2 | Rcast: people use microdrives for native compiling |
| 10:50.43 | HET2 | Rcast: or they use nfs mounts |
| 10:52.29 | Rcast | oh, so i might have to consider a setup with an NFS mout?, just out of curiosity how did you attemp this? |
| 10:55.13 | HET2 | i didnt :) |
| 10:55.16 | HET2 | i use smbfs mounts |
| 10:55.27 | HET2 | and i use the skiffs for crosscompiling |
| 10:55.33 | HET2 | and a local cross compiler |
| 10:55.37 | HET2 | on a x86 machine |
| 10:57.17 | Rcast | ah, ok, the main reason i want to do this is that i sometimes require other libraries for example readline, and when i try to compile on the skiff these are unavailable (?m to my knowledge) and also for ease of use. |
| 10:58.01 | HET2 | Rcast: compiling for the ipaq has always been tricky |
| 10:58.01 | HET2 | :) |
| 10:58.57 | Rcast | :-) yeah i guess that was one of the reasons i wiped Pocket Pc, just to have some fun, Thanks anyway |
| 12:47.02 | flyback | hey |
| 12:47.11 | flyback | anyone know how to eraser a palm's bigrom from debug mode ? |
| 13:46.09 | Mutiny | has anybody ever used qvfb to run OPIE under a GPE X session? |
| 14:19.40 | Rcast | HET2: I managed to get some simple programs to compile on the ipaq, using the debian sorces and a lot of symlinks, only taking 25mb of space (i could probably cut down on the space used if i knew what i didn't need) will probably need to install more libraries when i need then but so far everything works. Thanks again for trying to assist earlier |
| 14:23.06 | HET2 | Rcast: i'd love to see your x compiling environment! |
| 14:23.15 | HET2 | see / use |
| 14:26.41 | Rcast | Well there isn't much there, just a basic gcc libraries, i kinda followed this: http://www.zauruszone.com/howtos/compiling_on_the_zaurus.shtml but then got the binaries from the development feed (wasn't able to use this directly due because it wanted to install directly to the flash) |
| 15:00.03 | hubick | Yay. I just got my own software to install from my own ipkg's and feed :) |
| 15:01.59 | Tox|IPv6 | Hm. |
| 15:02.19 | NonToxic | It's taking forever to mount ReiserFS on my iPAQ, is this normal? |
| 15:02.24 | NonToxic | And should I be partitioning? |
| 15:29.00 | NonToxic | Shoot. |
| 15:29.11 | NonToxic | USB Networking just decided to become notworking. |
| 15:39.52 | nelson | I'm sorry to hear of the death of your late networking. |
| 15:47.27 | dizee | =( i just installed familiar-0.6 on my ipaq along with opie. now, after installing the opie-suspend package (i think, maybe it was task-suspend, i dunno) my ipaq likes to refuse to wake up from suspend unless i press the suspend button a dozen times in rapid succession. it wakes for a second, then immediately goes back to sleep. any advice? |
| 15:48.32 | dizee | in the meantime, i'm spidering the handhelds.org wiki to see if there's been any reported problems -- if i can't find out anything, i'm just going to build a new kernel |
| 15:49.43 | dizee | in the meantime, i think the wiki entry for " o |
| 15:49.43 | dizee | + Change the power button so it will not power down |
| 15:49.58 | dizee | goddamnit |
| 15:50.01 | NonToxic | Oh well, I just bought a CF card. |
| 15:50.18 | dizee | why is that an 'oh well' ? =) |
| 15:50.23 | NonToxic | dizee: I had that problem. Press the power button once for me, and see if it comes up and goes down. |
| 15:50.34 | NonToxic | Oh well == I only have 1 slot for CF, so I have to use USB Flakeyness |
| 15:50.43 | dizee | NonToxic: nope, single press and no reaction :/ |
| 15:50.46 | NonToxic | (cradle is almost dead, it doesn't stay in ): ) |
| 15:50.51 | dizee | mmm, bold colon bad |
| 15:50.55 | NonToxic | I mean, after you've done the dozentime thing |
| 15:51.24 | dizee | NonToxic: will check |
| 15:52.08 | dizee | NonToxic: doesn't work :/ |
| 15:52.19 | NonToxic | Hm.' |
| 15:52.25 | NonToxic | Try upgrading/downgrading bootloader... |
| 15:52.31 | NonToxic | That's what I've heard causes some problems... |
| 15:52.40 | dizee | i've tried particular combinations of successive presses, from 0-15 and it doesn't help me, the only way i can get it back to a usable state is hard-reset |
| 15:53.02 | dizee | hmm, i upped to the latest bootloader yesterday, i'll back down to the previous one, but why would the bootloader cause problems with the running system? |
| 15:53.08 | NonToxic | Dunno. |
| 15:53.11 | NonToxic | Oh COOL! |
| 15:53.57 | dizee | what is chex quest? |
| 15:54.02 | NonToxic | ACH! |
| 15:54.06 | NonToxic | You've never heard of chex quest?!!?! |
| 15:54.31 | dizee | :/ |
| 15:54.36 | dizee | nope |
| 15:55.08 | dizee | i've adjusted the light/power settings in opie to only deactivate lcd during suspend |
| 15:55.31 | NonToxic | Ah. |
| 15:55.32 | dizee | at least this'll prevent it from suspending while i'm logged in and doing something |
| 15:55.39 | NonToxic | You need to hit buttons, instead of hitting the power button. |
| 15:55.42 | NonToxic | I believe that is the fix. |
| 15:55.55 | dizee | and i'm sure the lcd probably is the most battery-consuming part of the system |
| 15:56.12 | NonToxic | Haha - nope, it's the CPU. |
| 15:56.21 | dizee | echo 1 > /proc/sys/ts/suspend_button_mode |
| 15:56.27 | dizee | that'll disable the suspend button as well ;) |
| 15:56.39 | dizee | really? what about the backlight? |
| 15:56.49 | NonToxic | Well, the b/l is different... |
| 15:58.49 | dizee | hehe |
| 15:59.49 | dizee | yeah, not that i'm an electrical engineer or anything, but i'd say the backlight was more power-hungry than the lcd controller |
| 16:00.34 | LoRez | dizee: I'm sure it is |
| 16:12.23 | dizee | damn away message - /set auto_away off |
| 16:13.01 | nelson | well done, Verisign (whois is down) |
| 16:13.06 | dizee | mmm, for some reason, i'm getting "SIOCSIFFLAGS: No such device" when attempting to configure usbf -- yet the interface is there :/ |
| 16:13.25 | LoRez | nelson: works for me |
| 16:13.28 | nelson | dizee LoRez: Compaq/HP has confirmed that the backlight consumes more power than any other item. |
| 16:13.37 | dizee | sa1100usb_core and usb-eth are loaded -- `ifconfig usbf` shows a configured device :/ |
| 16:13.50 | nelson | LoRez: must have been overloaded. working now. |
| 16:13.52 | LoRez | er... nm.. I guess .org works |
| 16:14.05 | LoRez | .com doesn't |
| 16:14.19 | LoRez | they must've actually moved the .org stuff over |
| 16:14.31 | LoRez | there it went |
| 16:14.51 | dizee | damnit -- i've been trying for 3 days to get a room for phreaknic6 and the line at the hotel is constantly busy :/ |
| 16:16.08 | dizee | oh well, they're all sold out anyway |
| 16:16.09 | dizee | fuck |
| 16:28.01 | nchip | ibot automount |
| 16:28.02 | | it has been said that automount is at http://handhelds.org/z/wiki/AutoMounting |
| 16:28.57 | nchip | hmm. that is not the automount used to mount nfs :P |
| 16:29.15 | treke|home | flypiper: Even more news on the cf front |
| 16:29.35 | treke|home | flypiper: turns out the sleeve does actually work. It seems it's hh21 that doesnt like it |
| 16:30.19 | treke|home | AntiProxy: you around? |
| 16:30.27 | Leeds | treke|home: which sleeve? |
| 16:30.38 | treke|home | Leeds: PI Dual CF |
| 16:30.45 | Leeds | oops... |
| 16:31.01 | treke|home | Leeds: what did you just upgrade? :) |
| 16:31.04 | Leeds | I've got one waiting for me at the office, after having to call FedEx from the other side of the planet |
| 16:31.17 | treke|home | Leeds: I'm back on hh20a and it works fine |
| 16:31.30 | Leeds | good! |
| 16:32.26 | treke|home | but all is well again |
| 16:42.59 | hubick | is the Packages.filelist created by ipkg-make index required for the feed, or can it be deleted? |
| 16:47.52 | iCEBaLM | sweaty? |
| 17:05.56 | Leeds | iCEBaLM: been in Bangkok |
| 17:11.15 | iCEBaLM | yeah I had that happen once too, I went to the hospital |
| 17:54.16 | nelson | hubick: it's required for ipkgfind. |
| 18:01.23 | pragma | What do I need to install and have JAVA ipkgs working in my familiar? |
| 18:39.42 | Namapoos | has anyone ever had problems with gid warnings when making cramfs images? |
| 20:36.13 | lammer1 | can anyone give me a hand setting up my cisco350 card? |
| 21:27.09 | nelson | lammer1: sorry, not me. I don't have one myself. What happens if you simply insert it into your sleeve? What gets printed on the console (if anything). What gets printed when you run logread immediately after inserting the card? |
| 21:41.16 | lammer1 | nelson: the card's lights are flashing... but when i perform an iwconfig it's not listed... |
| 21:41.16 | lammer1 | nelson: when i plug in the card i get the following: |
| 21:42.57 | lammer1 | nelson: cardmgr[86]: executing: 'modprobe airo' |
| 21:42.57 | lammer1 | cardmgr[86]: executing: 'modprobe airo_cs' |
| 21:42.57 | lammer1 | airo: MAC enabled eth0 0:7:50:ca:83:f9 |
| 21:42.57 | lammer1 | eth0: index 0x05: Vcc 5.0, Vpp 5.0, irq 42, io 0xc49b0000-0xc49b003f |
| 21:42.57 | lammer1 | cardmgr[86]: executing: './network start eth0' |
| 21:44.25 | xsd[g] | lammer1: hrm... what does `ifconfig eth0` say? |
| 21:45.31 | lammer1 | sh-2.03# ifconfig |
| 21:45.31 | lammer1 | lo Link encap:Local Loopback |
| 21:45.31 | lammer1 | inet addr:127.0.0.1 Mask:255.0.0.0 |
| 21:45.31 | lammer1 | UP LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:16436 Metric:1 |
| 21:45.31 | lammer1 | RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 |
| 21:45.31 | lammer1 | TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 |
| 21:45.33 | lammer1 | collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 |
| 21:45.35 | lammer1 | RX bytes:0 (0.0 b) TX bytes:0 (0.0 b) |
| 21:46.18 | lammer1 | xsd[g]: sorry... coming right up |
| 21:46.35 | lammer1 | sh-2.03# ifconfig eth0 |
| 21:46.35 | lammer1 | eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:07:50:CA:83:F9 |
| 21:46.35 | lammer1 | BROADCAST MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 |
| 21:46.35 | lammer1 | RX packets:0 errors:205 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:205 |
| 21:46.35 | lammer1 | TX packets:4 errors:4 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:4 |
| 21:46.36 | lammer1 | collisions:0 txqueuelen:100 |
| 21:46.38 | lammer1 | RX bytes:0 (0.0 b) TX bytes:2312 (2.2 Kb) |
| 21:46.40 | lammer1 | Interrupt:42 |
| 21:47.49 | kergoth | er, is tehre a reason you're flooding the channel? |
| 21:47.55 | kergoth | #flood exists for a reason |
| 21:48.49 | xsd[g] | lammer1: hrm... are you in the range of a WAP? |
| 21:49.51 | NonToxic | dhcpcd eth0 |
| 21:50.06 | NonToxic | if that fails, force iwconfig to recognize it |
| 21:50.07 | kergoth | lammer1: 'dmesg' is your friend |
| 21:50.08 | NonToxic | iwconfig eth0 |
| 21:52.59 | a7r | yoh. |
| 21:53.05 | NonToxic | y0h a7r |
| 21:56.18 | a7r | sup? |
| 22:01.12 | lammer1 | can someone tell me what the arguement for iwconfig is to change a card from managed mode to adhoc? |
| 22:08.43 | NonToxic | ibot slashdot |
| 23:43.20 | NonToxic | http://www.joshuawise.com/~joshua/irc.htm |
| 23:43.33 | NonToxic | "What is IRC?" |