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| 14:10.30 | Joe___ | Hello, what's the exact time Google announce the accepted student on May.6? Is it 18:00 UTC? |
| 14:23.11 | Freso | Joe___: I guess weâll see on Monday. :) |
| 14:23.16 | Freso | !timeline |
| 14:23.17 | gsocbot | Freso: https://developers.google.com/open-source/gsoc/timeline |
| 14:23.39 | Freso | ^ says "May 6 18:00 UTC Accepted student proposals announced" |
| 14:24.14 | Joe___ | Thanks! |
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| 17:29.12 | Aayush_AGGRE | hey there. i am a student and have started android app development recently. |
| 17:29.28 | Aayush_AGGRE | want to be a part of gsoc. |
| 17:30.28 | Aayush_AGGRE | wanted to know how many apps do i need to publish in order to be a part of gsoc |
| 17:31.22 | PulkoMandy | it's too late for this year edition |
| 17:31.47 | PulkoMandy | and you don't need to publish anything, you would be working on some existing open source project codebase |
| 17:31.52 | PulkoMandy | !studentguide |
| 17:31.53 | gsocbot | PulkoMandy: https://g.co/gsoc/studentguide |
| 17:31.59 | PulkoMandy | a lot of relevant info there :) |
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| 20:13.01 | fundamental | ouch, it looks like students can indeed withdraw at any point, including very much last minute. |
| 20:19.05 | valorie | not an ouch, imo, but very human-friendly |
| 20:19.48 | valorie | GSoC isn't work for hire, after all |
| 20:20.40 | fundamental | yep, I'm mostly thinking that it seemed like a good fit and too bad the particular instance didn't work out in the end |
| 20:22.25 | valorie | right, it would be ideal if more students involved themselves earlier |
| 20:22.41 | valorie | so that there were even fewer last-minute withdrawals |
| 20:23.09 | valorie | I urge that all year round, but the tiny minority do |
| 20:23.57 | fundamental | for many projects events like GSoC create a momentary spike in the visibility of a project to students, so it's not supprising, that's just how it goes |
| 20:24.40 | PulkoMandy | this could mean you have a visibility/outreach problem to solve, however :> |
| 20:24.56 | fundamental | I'm likely planning on trying to experiment around with the 'first-timers-only' in regards to that |
| 20:25.29 | Chaosgrille[m] | as a student i was confused how much traffic the mailing lists and ircs got in the last week. i thought more students would think about gsoc atleast half a year in advance. on the other hand i have to skip a semester if i want to participate gsoc. in other countries there are holidays so students dont "risk" to much apllying |
| 20:25.31 | fundamental | PulkoMandy: I'd say that's true for most projects, though it's a bit more true for the domain my org is in |
| 20:26.11 | valorie | Chaosgrille[m]: that's unfortunate, to have to skip a semester |
| 20:26.18 | PulkoMandy | things like hacktoberfest may help as well... but only if you accept pull requests on github |
| 20:26.42 | valorie | I think the issue is that each year the consciousness of GSoC is too slow to trickle out to all the students |
| 20:27.02 | fundamental | Chaosgrille[m]: that's got to be a stressful decision to make :-/ |
| 20:27.36 | Chaosgrille[m] | valorie: yes but i think gsoc is more important. right now i am still attending courses etc. if i get selected i can stop all courses i did the last months |
| 20:27.45 | fundamental | PulkoMandy: I considered hacktoberfest, though looking through activity from past years it looks more like a short term boost of activity within existing community members rather than attracting external/new ones |
| 20:27.53 | PulkoMandy | well, whatever you do, some people will always complain a few hours/days after the deadline anyway :> |
| 20:28.03 | valorie | PulkoMandy: lol so true |
| 20:28.16 | valorie | I do that even if not aloud! |
| 20:29.13 | PulkoMandy | fundamental: maybe, we don't accept pull requests in our org (git repo is hosted elsewhere so I never tried it). One of our candidates for this summer did get started with pull requests and git in hacktoberfest however, and that helped |
| 20:30.28 | fundamental | PulkoMandy: I begrudgingly migrated a fair amount of code over to github to take advantage of the network effect there. |
| 20:30.41 | valorie | github, ick |
| 20:31.08 | PulkoMandy | well, our org gets a lot of pressure for that (both existing contributors and outsiders), but, not doing it so far |
| 20:31.10 | valorie | not sure 'drive-by' code dumps are valuable |
| 20:31.17 | PulkoMandy | we just have a mirror of our sources there |
| 20:31.29 | valorie | KDE has a mirror there as well |
| 20:31.35 | PulkoMandy | (one that you can't even build because we do crazy things with git tags, even) |
| 20:31.42 | valorie | we are moving from Phabricator to gitlab |
| 20:31.55 | valorie | but dunno if that will be a winner in the long run |
| 20:32.11 | fundamental | hard to say with gitlab since they do seem to have issues with scalability |
| 20:32.18 | PulkoMandy | Haiku is using Gerrit now, so we have to train people to a different git flow |
| 20:32.20 | valorie | I guess there are advantages and the opposite to every way of welcoming newcomers |
| 20:33.16 | fundamental | it's tricky to look at things from the perspective of how much can be done given that there's only so many hours to improve the situation |
| 20:33.25 | valorie | my way is basically hugging everyone who wants a hug |
| 20:33.28 | PulkoMandy | yes, and things that help newcomers may be annoying to other devs, or the opposite |
| 20:33.48 | valorie | but then I'm not a coder |
| 20:34.31 | PulkoMandy | we always need more non-coders :> |
| 20:34.54 | fundamental | valorie: that's generally a good policy, though they have to appear or request the hug first |
| 20:34.59 | valorie | well, KDE has welcomed me, and so I in turn welcome others |
| 20:35.00 | fundamental | which can be a challenging step |
| 20:35.19 | valorie | I wouldn't want to touch someone who didn't welcome it |
| 20:35.28 | PulkoMandy | one of our "problems" is that users get so frustrated at how slow we are they eventually learn C++ to help us :p |
| 20:35.37 | valorie | PulkoMandy: lol |
| 20:36.25 | PulkoMandy | we had a workshop about hugging at a free software conference last month. The conclusion is we should probably write an april 1st RFC about the hug negociation protocol |
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| 20:41.11 | fundamental | I really should try to send out some emails to students who expressed interest, but never followed up informally asking "What made you decide to stop?" |
| 20:41.54 | valorie | if I had emails, I'd do that |
| 20:42.13 | valorie | but most ask a question in IRC and then leave, never to be seen again |
| 20:42.34 | valorie | and honestly, it takes more interest than that to be successful |
| 20:52.35 | fundamental | There were a lot of individuals who expressed interest on the mailing list. Many fewer tried IRC |
| 20:52.50 | fundamental | I did make sure that literally all students got back some response |
| 20:56.40 | valorie | oh, my students seem to think that MLs are some dinosaur communication device |
| 20:56.57 | valorie | even irc is toooooo ooooooold |
| 20:57.13 | Mc | oral communication is much older |
| 20:57.19 | valorie | we do bridge the chans with telegram and matrix but that is not yet seamless |
| 20:57.41 | valorie | grunts and hoots |
| 21:00.24 | fundamental | heh, if we tried to stay fashionable, then a third of the time working for the project would be spent migrating platform to platform |
| 21:02.11 | olly | the one I'm confused about submitted a decent patch and interacted a lot but never submitted a proposal |
| 21:02.44 | olly | i've tried to follow up a bit but got no response |
| 21:03.54 | fundamental | sounds like they might have been a great candidate, but they got a good internship as an alternate |
| 21:04.34 | fundamental | At least I'm guessing that's what just happened to my org as well |
| 21:16.55 | valorie | you can't blame a kid for weighing the alternatives and choosing the one that seems best |
| 21:17.52 | valorie | it takes time - IMO a few years - to get an emotional investment that makes working for free seem like a good alternative |
| 21:19.51 | fundamental | no blame at all. Just contemplation on the new slot assignment or non-assignment. |
| 21:21.22 | valorie | yeah |
| 21:22.05 | valorie | well my dashboard still says all my slots are used |
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| 21:24.18 | olly | fundamental: it's possible your lost one failed the second round of check on the eligibility proofs |
| 21:24.36 | olly | it's rare but happens |
| 21:26.02 | fundamental | olly: yeah, that's possible, though it would be nice if the email stated that or not. At least I don't think that would be leaking any private information in doing so |
| 21:26.43 | olly | if they did withdraw for an internship, that's much better than trying to do both |
| 21:27.32 | fundamental | Certainly. Trying to learn/work on multiple things is a formula for burnout. That's not fun to have happen or to watch it build. |
| 21:27.58 | olly | most of our failures have been students who quietly took an internship in parallel, and then find you can't actually do two full time jobs in parallel for 3 months well enough for people to not notice |
| 21:31.15 | valorie | we had a great student withdraw about half-way through the project last year |
| 21:31.19 | valorie | that stung |
| 21:32.05 | valorie | they gave no feedback until much later, and it was like "sorry, it was a great opportunity and I couldn't turn it down" |
| 21:32.25 | valorie | I found that rude and thoughtless |
| 21:32.35 | valorie | but that's life sometimes |
| 21:33.45 | fundamental | Stuff happens. I just tend to like there to be communication about happenings. Otherwise you can be left guessing |
| 21:34.47 | valorie | indeed |
| 21:35.18 | valorie | it really leaves the teams and especially the mentors themselves feeling very burned |
| 21:36.18 | fundamental | I imagine it's hard to leave any negative feedback though for fear of unintentionally burning bridges |
| 21:38.08 | Freso | "22:33:25 <@valorie> my way is basically hugging everyone who wants a hug" â¤ï¸ |
| 21:38.23 | valorie | :-) |
| 21:38.51 | valorie | although online that hugging is sometimes just finding the page on the wiki they need |
| 21:38.52 | fundamental | to be clear with that note, are those metophorical hugs or literal ones? (I was assuming the former) |
| 21:39.17 | valorie | I give literal ones in person |
| 21:39.25 | valorie | plenty of virt hugs when appropriate |
| 21:39.37 | valorie | but it's mostly an attitude |
| 21:40.25 | valorie | I'm not naturally a huggy person; wasn't brought up that way |
| 21:40.41 | valorie | but I felt so good being around people like that |
| 21:40.54 | valorie | I wanted to make others feel as good as I did |
| 21:41.01 | Freso | valorie: Can you find me the page on the wiki that I need? |
| 21:41.09 | valorie | lol |
| 21:41.20 | valorie | you have to give me a bit more detail, Freso! |
| 21:41.24 | valorie | :-) |
| 21:41.31 | Freso | But I donât know what I need! |
| 21:41.40 | valorie | right |
| 21:41.48 | Freso | Maybe what I need is that page that tells me what I need? |
| 21:41.54 | valorie | which many people stumble into IRC know knowing |
| 21:42.05 | valorie | and not having the words to ask |
| 21:42.18 | valorie | I remember being that person |
| 21:44.14 | fundamental | It's fun sometimes being the person to ask 'dumb' questions because the foundation to them is very different than everyone else |
| 21:45.25 | valorie | sure, it took me years to understand how the foss community works/is "organized" and how projects relate to one another |
| 21:45.37 | fundamental | The first time I recall being on IRC I was confused by program behavior when I had built C-strings, but they were all EOF terminated because I misread something :p |
| 21:46.37 | valorie | I figured out a few years ago that I can even help out in some technical channels because newcomers show up where-ever |
| 21:46.53 | valorie | since they don't understand how things are organized |
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