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| 00:20.13 | *** topic/#gsoc is Google Summer of Code | Student Projects Announced May 4th, 2017 | https://g.co/gsoc |
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| 01:34.34 | r0bby | gevaerts: That' easily fixable, don't disclose the number of slots. |
| 01:34.39 | r0bby | That's* |
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| 04:42.23 | r0bby | This year my org did have some students that weren't good...some wrote good proposals but no community engagement |
| 04:43.11 | r0bby | No code contributions either, a requirement which I feel really uneasy waiving without good reason |
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| 05:15.12 | valorie | amen, r0bby |
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| 05:17.58 | r0bby | The lack of community engagement disturbs me |
| 05:18.29 | r0bby | and if I see it happen during the community bonding period...it's gonna be bad. If it doesn't happen publicly, I consider there to be no communication. |
| 05:19.24 | r0bby | Well bad for them, thank you Google for giving us the tools to make it such that students don't get paid for doing nothing! |
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| 05:26.18 | olly | r0bby: you could failed students before the first payment before, though it never seemed to be very well publicised |
| 05:28.12 | r0bby | eh I know |
| 05:28.17 | r0bby | but now it's explicit |
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| 05:35.15 | olly | *could have |
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| 05:44.58 | r0bby | olly: yeah -- I feel like a dictator with how I'm handling enforcement :/ |
| 05:45.27 | r0bby | We also really need long-term contributors |
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| 09:15.51 | gevaerts | r0bby: yes, that was what I was arguing :) |
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| 09:18.26 | r0bby | true |
| 09:18.43 | r0bby | We shouldn't be giving students slot allocation numbers -- they're useless anyways. |
| 09:19.10 | r0bby | Sometimes, it comes down to a numbers game, other times -- it's a matter of "we just aren't sure you'll stick around, or even succeed" |
| 09:19.23 | r0bby | ANYBODY can write a good proposal, but can they execute it? |
| 09:19.30 | gevaerts | Well... |
| 09:19.53 | gevaerts | has seen enough proposals to know that that's not true :) |
| 09:20.10 | r0bby | I've seen some pretty pisspoor proposals myself |
| 09:20.20 | r0bby | and some pretty freaking hilarious ones too |
| 09:20.30 | Valodim | writing a good proposal is *not* trivial |
| 09:20.39 | r0bby | No, it's not. |
| 09:20.54 | r0bby | Writing about it and coding it are two totally different beasts. |
| 09:21.29 | r0bby | What I'm lookin for is far more than "can you complete the project" |
| 09:21.34 | r0bby | I'm looking for retention |
| 09:21.58 | r0bby | ...which is what we all strive for as orgs but in our case -- it's needed |
| 09:22.31 | r0bby | Valodim: also keep in mind I've been a student, mentor and org admin - so I know both sides of things. |
| 09:24.19 | r0bby | I've been around Google Summer of Code since 2008, sitting out 2014 -- otherwise I've been around a long, long time. |
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| 09:25.23 | pyc0d3r | hello |
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| 09:26.34 | r0bby | hey pyc0d3r |
| 09:27.00 | pyc0d3r | how are u r0bby |
| 09:27.32 | r0bby | probably gonna conk out shortly |
| 09:28.07 | pyc0d3r | ok no problem , are you GSoC mentor or student? |
| 09:30.06 | r0bby | Org admin |
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| 09:32.34 | pyc0d3r | ok sir @r0bby with org |
| 09:32.53 | r0bby | Don't call me sir |
| 09:33.11 | pyc0d3r | ok dude |
| 09:33.49 | pyc0d3r | me i am a student who's apply |
| 09:37.54 | r0bby | pyc0d3r: We can't tell you anything -- even your org. |
| 09:38.24 | r0bby | I'm against giving any information that would help you infer -- Google disallows this...not us. |
| 09:40.08 | r0bby | pyc0d3r: I have been in your position, I know how you feel -- but can't help you |
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| 09:41.07 | pyc0d3r_ | hi |
| 09:41.31 | r0bby | We can't tell you anything |
| 09:42.46 | pyc0d3r_ | ok i am only here to chat and have fun thats all, are you free |
| 09:42.51 | r0bby | Nope |
| 09:42.54 | r0bby | im heading to bed :) |
| 09:43.10 | r0bby | you really should be chatting with the orgs you applied to |
| 09:43.11 | r0bby | ;) |
| 09:43.23 | pyc0d3r_ | wow what time your location now |
| 09:45.14 | pyc0d3r_ | ?? |
| 09:46.30 | gevaerts | Are you waiting for an answer from someone who just announced he was going to sleep? :) |
| 09:47.15 | pyc0d3r_ | oh |
| 09:47.34 | pyc0d3r_ | what about u @gevaerts |
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| 09:47.52 | pyc0d3r_ | are you up for hangout |
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| 13:33.06 | zeenix | Hi |
| 13:34.16 | zeenix | I'm an admin and mentor of an org. I'm going to soon loose my company google account I registered as. Is there a way to transfer my roles to my private google account? |
| 13:35.14 | Valodim | -> gsoc-support@google.com :) |
| 13:35.25 | zeenix | Valodim: that's my next step |
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| 13:35.41 | zeenix | i first thought i asked here and see if there is something i can do msyelf |
| 13:36.43 | gevaerts | I imagine the steps would involve inviting yourself as a "new" admin, but I don't actually know if you can still do that now |
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| 13:46.04 | zeenix | gevaerts: yeah, i sent them a mail. Let's see what they say |
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| 14:08.13 | pyc0d3r | hello |
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| 17:11.24 | maxstk3 | !faq |
| 17:11.24 | gsocbot | maxstk3: "faq" is https://g.co/gsoc/faq |
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| 17:26.48 | maxstk3 | I don't see the answer to my question. If my project is complete by the first evaluation period and the mentor checks and passes each evaluation, am I allowed to receive the full stipend all at once? |
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| 17:27.52 | meflin | mentors cannot do so |
| 17:30.26 | maxstk3 | meflin, you mean mentors can't have our full stipend sent at once or that they can't do all evaluations at once? Or both? |
| 17:30.36 | meflin | either |
| 17:30.49 | meflin | mentors dont send stipends and only can do evals at the correct times |
| 17:30.50 | maxstk3 | meflin ok thank you for clarifying |
| 17:31.12 | gevaerts | I'd say being done at midterms means you seriously got your timelime wrong, and I'd take that into account in my evaluation :) |
| 17:31.29 | Valodim | you can always add stretch goals :) |
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| 17:32.35 | maxstk3 | Valodim yes, there's always something more to do |
| 17:34.25 | maxstk3 | gevaerts ok fair enough, but i remember reading about some people already having completed their project by the time they started without penalty :/ |
| 17:34.40 | maxstk3 | (in past gsocs) |
| 17:35.28 | Valodim | it really depends on the situation |
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| 17:37.14 | terri | maxstk3: You can actually get in trouble for that; google's paying for new work. A small "working ahead" is fine, but having completed everything beforehand looks *very fishy* if it's challenged. |
| 17:37.43 | terri | As Valodim says, it can depend on the situation a lot. But it's definitely not a thing to aspire to. |
| 17:39.53 | gevaerts | If I were a mentor (I was, once!), I would definitely expect extended goals if the student is *that* massively ahead of schedule |
| 17:40.50 | Valodim | particularly the situation where the mentor feels like they were conned by the student can get ugly fast |
| 17:40.54 | gevaerts | I'd also be checking right now if your proposal wasn't in my list and triple-check it :) |
| 17:41.01 | maxstk3 | terri thanks for telling me. it makes sense for it to not be allowed, I was just confused by stuff I'd read from past participants. i was thinking of completing some parts while waiting, but i will wait now. |
| 17:41.49 | Valodim | feel free to start, as long as you don't expect to get six weeks off because you finished early, there won't be a problem |
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| 17:43.57 | terri | maxstk3: working on a few parts is fine, as long as you talk to your mentors about it and they agree that it's appropriate. |
| 17:45.59 | maxstk3 | ok thanks for the advice. i will take the whole summer and work on quality. i need to stop overthinking, i will check back May 4. |
| 17:46.05 | terri | But of course you do run the risk of not getting chosen and then being really upset about having done work for free. No one can stop you from doing work for free, that's what open source is about, but doing work now definitely doesn't guarantee you getting picked. :) |
| 17:46.13 | olly | Done by first evaluation would be more like 8 weeks off |
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| 17:49.14 | maxstk3 | terri good points. see everyone back May 4th. i have student work to finish and exams to study, so time should pass fast. :) |
| 17:53.29 | egypt | !calendar |
| 17:53.34 | egypt | aww |
| 17:53.44 | egypt | !timeline |
| 17:53.44 | gsocbot | egypt: "timeline" is (#1) https://developers.google.com/open-source/gsoc/timeline, or (#2) https://developers.google.com/open-source/gci/timeline |
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| 17:54.40 | egypt | hmm. that first link says there is a google calendar we can subscribe to, but i can't find it. |
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| 17:55.28 | gevaerts | You mean the one linked to at the top of the timeline page? |
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| 17:57.31 | egypt | gevaerts: there's a .ics, but not a live thing i can add to my google calendar |
| 17:58.11 | gevaerts | must be looking wrong! |
| 17:58.16 | egypt | oh, wait, there's an email address on the html link. that works! |
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| 18:07.53 | downey | I don't actually see any 2017 events in the .ICS calendar, but maybe I'm doing it wrong. bluesomewhere any idea if that's up-to-date? |
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| 18:15.51 | Robert_S | downey: It's you :) |
| 18:16.35 | Robert_S | We should probably remove that calendar in general, maybe replace it with something else. But time. Oh.. time. |
| 18:18.21 | olly | And date |
| 18:21.26 | r0bby | There _IS_ a google calendar |
| 18:21.39 | r0bby | I actually have it embedded in my calendar |
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| 18:23.25 | downey | Robert_S: what is this "time" of which you speak?! |
| 18:24.55 | downey | Ah, I see it now ... I was just looking for events/details that weren't on the calendar. :-) |
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| 18:31.15 | bluesomewhere | what Robert_S said :) |
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| 18:49.38 | egypt | bluesomewhere: i think it would be enough to add a line like, "You can import this timeline to your Google Calendar by adding gsummerofcode@gmail.com" |
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| 19:16.01 | Robert_S | egypt: When you click on the HTML version, I think there's a button. |
| 19:16.11 | Robert_S | egypt: Or you can cut and paste the ICAL link into the add a calendar box. |
| 19:16.48 | Robert_S | downey: Yeah, I don't think OA/OM things are there. It wouldn't be hard to generate an ical file from the app's built in timeline, just someone has to do it. :) |
| 19:22.02 | r0bby | Robert_S: if only it was open source... |
| 19:23.04 | r0bby | (sorry for being persistent, just find it kinda sad that a program to get students interested in Open Source doesn't have the webapp to run the program, also as open source) |
| 19:23.28 | r0bby | ...that came of way more abrasive than intended... |
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| 19:25.14 | bluesomewhere | text, the unfriendly medium ;) |
| 19:26.18 | r0bby | LOL |
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| 19:30.41 | r0bby | I use this calendar(have for years): https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=gsummerofcode%40gmail.com&ctz=America/New_York |
| 19:36.04 | downey | r0bby: https://developers.google.com/open-source/gsoc/timeline is CC-BY :-) |
| 19:36.27 | r0bby | downey: same source ;) |
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| 19:37.03 | r0bby | downey: I'm still giving them a hard time for not open sourcing the webapp that runs GCI/GSoC |
| 19:37.26 | r0bby | s/still/just/gi |
| 19:39.34 | downey | r0bby: Interestingly, I actually understand why after reading the Google internal open source policies which themselves are open source at https://opensource.google.com/docs/ :) |
| 19:40.53 | r0bby | TL;DR? |
| 19:42.24 | r0bby | also holy red tape batman |
| 19:42.36 | r0bby | https://opensource.google.com/docs/releasing/approval/ |
| 19:42.45 | r0bby | They wanna focus on the codebase, not red tape |
| 19:43.20 | downey | That's refreshingly little red tape compared to other large orgs, IMHO |
| 19:44.47 | r0bby | How much third party code do they use? |
| 19:47.49 | terri | downey: yeah, releasing open source when you're a large company is pretty complicated. I have great respect for our IP lawyers at work, they have very interesting and challenging jobs. |
| 19:52.52 | r0bby | I'm not saying I don't understand...I can almost guarantee that they borrowed some internal code for the site |
| 19:53.11 | r0bby | It's fine, I guess |
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| 19:53.35 | r0bby | and the other perk to being closed source: they have full control over the feature set |
| 19:53.52 | r0bby | ...I mean even open source has that but.. |
| 19:54.05 | terri | but more arguments. :) |
| 19:54.34 | r0bby | terri: to which end? |
| 19:55.45 | r0bby | downey, bluesomewhere I see both of you use IRCCloud, do you have a gripe with the lack of the ability to search the backlog in the desktop client? |
| 19:57.45 | downey | r0bby: No gripes here. Like most people, I never search a chat history. ;-) |
| 19:58.01 | r0bby | I usually do -- usually for mentions |
| 19:58.14 | r0bby | if someone mentions me -- i wind up ignoring it |
| 20:00.36 | olly | r0bby: so after moaning about the gsoc webapp being closed source you barely pause before asking questions about some other closed source webapp... |
| 20:01.23 | r0bby | olly: gsoc is different! |
| 20:01.26 | terri | r0bby: arguments have an end? That's not how open source works. ;) |
| 20:01.28 | r0bby | DAMN IT! |
| 20:01.43 | r0bby | gsoc/gci |
| 20:01.49 | r0bby | 's mission for one :P |
| 20:01.58 | r0bby | MADNESS I say, MADNESS! |
| 20:03.45 | downey | FWIW: https://github.com/irccloud/irccloud-desktop |
| 20:04.25 | r0bby | not all of IRCCloud is closed-source ^ |
| 20:05.10 | downey | Anyway, since this channel is about GSoC, I might mention you can search the channel logs: |
| 20:05.12 | downey | !logs |
| 20:05.12 | gsocbot | downey: "logs" is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc/ |
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| 20:05.45 | r0bby | Except it's usually not this channel but we're veering off-topic -- sort of |
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| 20:07.20 | downey | nods |
| 20:08.44 | r0bby | terri: it has no end. Was just pressing to which point you were responding to |
| 20:09.31 | perepujal | misses melange |
| 20:09.37 | terri | ew, no |
| 20:09.44 | terri | r0bby: oh, just the one directly above |
| 20:10.43 | r0bby | oh yeh -- Open source just has transparency -- sometimes. I know certain open source projects struggle with transparency -- but I digress <<insert kermit with tea meme here>> |
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| 20:17.27 | downey | I miss melange like a miss a root canal |
| 20:18.52 | terri | I like root canals a lot more than I liked melange. the root canal hurt eventually stops. ;) |
| 20:23.47 | perepujal | Being forced to the use of closed source is something that makes me pain, and has contributed in no mentoring this year, if in plus it suggests students to use freeware google docs instead of open source alternatives then even melange is better. |
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| 20:32.42 | terri | perepujal: As a big org, we calculated and we were spending 100+ hours on helping people work through melange issues. I'd much rather my volunteers spend that time on actually mentoring! |
| 20:35.09 | perepujal | Agree, but closed source is not an option |
| 20:35.17 | terri | (I needed to track my own volunteer hours for a work donation matching thing and it was, uh, educational.) |
| 20:36.48 | terri | perepujal: I'd rather suck it up and deal with some closed source than constantly have my volunteers burn out, so I disagree, but that's ok, we don't have to agree. :) |
| 20:37.53 | r0bby | perepujal: agreed but right now -- that's not an option. I've been giving them a hard time constantly -- I'm sure some of them just want me to shut up |
| 20:38.05 | terri | If we wanted melange to stick around, we needed to step up and make it work, and that didn't happen, clearly. |
| 20:38.53 | r0bby | perepujal: The closed source one works quite well |
| 20:38.57 | r0bby | I rather like it |
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| 21:11.38 | olly | downey: yes, note I carefully said "webapp" |
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| 21:18.17 | downey | olly: huh? think i missed something :) |
| 21:24.46 | olly | "<downey> FWIW: https://github.com/irccloud/irccloud-desktop" |
| 21:26.10 | r0bby | olly: My objection to the gsoc webapp is for different reasons. I'm not an Open source purist |
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