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| 11:02.39 | *** topic/#gsoc is Google Summer of Code 2014 has finished | You can see the list of GSoC 2014 who participated here: http://goo.gl/qjlV7A | The Google Summer of Code 2014 mentoring orgs list is at: http://goo.gl/Qx6xLC |
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| 11:24.22 | *** topic/#gsoc is Google Summer of Code 2014 has finished | You can see the list of GSoC 2014 who participated here: http://goo.gl/qjlV7A | The Google Summer of Code 2014 mentoring orgs list is at: http://goo.gl/Qx6xLC |
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| 12:47.02 | saiborg | Hello. |
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| 12:49.21 | saiborg | I'm wondering if anyone could help me to get started with the GSOC. |
| 12:49.42 | Niharika | Hi saiborg. |
| 12:49.53 | saiborg | Hello. |
| 12:49.56 | Niharika | saiborg: GSoC 2015 hasn't been announced yet. |
| 12:50.13 | saiborg | Yes. I was wondering how I could work for it, and open source in general. |
| 12:50.48 | Niharika | saiborg: You could have a look at the organizations which participated in this round and start contributing to any you like. |
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| 12:52.06 | saiborg | Yes exactly. I'm still not comfortable with reading code. There seems to be a steep learning curve between the stuff a programming course teaches you and what you need to know to contribute for Open Source. |
| 12:53.13 | Niharika | saiborg: That's the difference between doing college projects and real world projects. :) |
| 12:53.24 | saiborg | I have tried understanding some C source code for some Open Source Linux applications but beyond a limit, it still does not make any sense. |
| 12:53.43 | saiborg | Yes. I know. It's just, am I doing anything wrong? |
| 12:53.50 | Niharika | saiborg: You should ask for help on the org channels whenever you get stuck. It's really hard, if not impossible, to do it on your own. |
| 12:54.50 | Niharika | saiborg: Also, very often, you need to understand only some of the code for a certain project. You can ignore the rest of it. |
| 12:54.56 | saiborg | Ah yes. Is it okay if I popped by once in a while( a lot, actually) with questions I might come across? |
| 12:55.11 | PulkoMandy | I think the most difficult thing to realize is that there is nothing wrong in asking for (a little) help and collaboration. Often college projects focus on the opposite (doing everything on your own) |
| 12:55.26 | PulkoMandy | but you came here to ask for help so you must have realized that already :) |
| 12:55.28 | Niharika | saiborg: Sure. The org channels will be of more help, I suppose. |
| 12:55.50 | saiborg | As in? |
| 12:56.02 | PulkoMandy | it depends on the project you are looking at |
| 12:56.20 | PulkoMandy | most of them have a way to contact their developers directly, either an IRC channel or a mailing list (or both) |
| 12:57.36 | PulkoMandy | if you send a mail or connect to a channel and explain what you are trying to do with their code, what you have done, and why you got stuck, you should get some help from the developers who know the codebase better |
| 12:57.54 | PulkoMandy | (or if they don't, they may at least know who you should ask) |
| 12:58.07 | saiborg | Ah. I am presently working on a project in C++ that automates the allocation of time tables for an entire institution. My college, for instance,has over 30 departments and it takes over a week to produce a coherent solution. |
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| 12:58.40 | PulkoMandy | there is an open source project already doing exactly that: www.tablix.org |
| 12:58.52 | saiborg | Ah. Nice. I'll check em out. |
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| 12:59.05 | PulkoMandy | but I don't know if your college allows using existing projects instead of doing the work yourself |
| 12:59.26 | PulkoMandy | (mine did. It happened once and all the teacher could say was "I should have googled it myself") |
| 12:59.49 | saiborg | No. I am doing this out of my own discretion. We do not have projects yet. Hell, they are still teaching us programming basics in class. |
| 13:00.33 | PulkoMandy | they have to start there, I think |
| 13:01.58 | PulkoMandy | my computer sciences courses started with "let's check you all know how to use a keyboard and mouse". Everyone did, but if it wasn't the case they would have had to setup a course for that too. They can only assume you know what you learnt in school, and most schools don't have enough computers involved |
| 13:02.10 | saiborg | Since we have an enormous campus with over 3 sub campuses, I'm also trying to reduce the amount of distance a teacher has to cover,allocating laboratories to classes and making sure every teacher has atleast one free hour per day. |
| 13:02.16 | PulkoMandy | or at least that's how it works here (France). Other countris may handle this differently |
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| 13:03.04 | saiborg | Yeah. Here, in India, we just have teachers reading the text and FORCING us to take down their notes. Not really an environment conductive towards quality coding. |
| 13:04.19 | Niharika | Agreed. It's sad. :( |
| 13:05.25 | saiborg | I recently attended a Pycon in Bangalore and it really cooked up interest in me to get real serious about coding. |
| 13:06.46 | PulkoMandy | well, at least you're aware that college won't do everything for you. Some people believe that, but when you look for a job, interviewers have little interest in which school you attended or whatever. Personal projects are what makes you stand out |
| 13:07.01 | saiborg | The things people do with their code, it's just mind blowing. I can whip up solutions to codechef or Project Euler problems, but that is not the same as doing a real life project. |
| 13:07.09 | PulkoMandy | (all colleges are more or less the same anyway, and if you got your diploma, there's no need to look further) |
| 13:08.02 | PulkoMandy | it's different skills. and in english they have different names too: computer science and software engineering |
| 13:08.14 | saiborg | Yes. Mine is Software Engineering, |
| 13:08.49 | saiborg | They teach us agile without giving us enough technical prowess to really see it applied. |
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| 13:09.58 | PulkoMandy | you have to try it for yourself anyway |
| 13:10.51 | saiborg | I know.So what would you have me look into now? There seems to be a bridge that I am unable to scale between creating code to solve trivial coding problems and doing real life projects. |
| 13:10.56 | PulkoMandy | my longest projects for school were something like 4 or 5 months, working on them part time and in small teams of at most 4 people, that's still an order of magnitude smaller than any real world project |
| 13:11.36 | PulkoMandy | there's no way you could have a real-scale project at school, and it wouldn't be realistic anyway, in a real project there are always some "senior" developers around for whom it's not the first project |
| 13:12.12 | PulkoMandy | well, I don't know about you, but I can tell you what I did when I realized that |
| 13:12.19 | saiborg | Sure. |
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| 13:12.58 | PulkoMandy | I took an existing but abandonned program that I needed for my own use. It was an old drawing program running under DOS, and I started messing with the code to get it running on my Linux computer |
| 13:13.17 | PulkoMandy | now it's a reasonably succesful open source project |
| 13:13.22 | saiborg | Ah. So it was in C? |
| 13:13.32 | PulkoMandy | yes |
| 13:13.35 | PulkoMandy | http://pulkomandy.tk/projects/GrafX2 |
| 13:13.44 | saiborg | Thanks. |
| 13:14.14 | PulkoMandy | this may not be the easiest route, as I had to start from long forgotten sourcecode without the original authors being able to help me |
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| 13:14.54 | PulkoMandy | so joining an active project would be easier for that. But then be ready for people looking at your code and telling you why it's wron and how you can improve it, again and again |
| 13:15.03 | saiborg | Well, I am always kind of a reinvent the wheel kind of person. Agreed, it takes time, but as with my music, I guess I might end up with a lot of knowledge on coding. |
| 13:15.19 | PulkoMandy | so it depends if you want to discover things the hard way by yourself or be mentored to get things faster |
| 13:15.53 | saiborg | Well, as for the mentoring part, do I do something in Github? |
| 13:16.05 | PulkoMandy | that depends on the project you are interested in |
| 13:16.42 | PulkoMandy | if I take GrafX2 as a small "toy" example (I don't plan to enter it in GSoC for now), we don't use github directly, the development happens on that page I linked above |
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| 13:17.14 | saiborg | And so, do I learn new topics or modules on the go or do I need to have an idea before I indulge myself? |
| 13:17.16 | PulkoMandy | we have an IRC channel (#grafx2 on freenode) and a mailing list at google groups, which you could join to ask questions about the sourcecode |
| 13:17.17 | saiborg | Ah. |
| 13:17.36 | PulkoMandy | each project has its own way to handle these things |
| 13:18.00 | PulkoMandy | if you imported the sources on github because you prefer working there, that would be fine too. But some other projects may not like it |
| 13:18.14 | PulkoMandy | so that's something to handle with the project developpers |
| 13:18.26 | saiborg | Ah. And could you tell me or link me on how multiple file projects or programs work? That still does not seem to strike me, |
| 13:19.05 | PulkoMandy | as for the tasks you want to do, it's really up to you. Ideally you pick a project you use, because writing code you have an use for is a good way to stay motivated |
| 13:19.13 | PulkoMandy | writing code you will never run is not as fun |
| 13:19.33 | saiborg | Sure. Thanks a lot. |
| 13:20.02 | PulkoMandy | well, let's take GrafX2 as an example again, it is a rather small project. There is a makefile in the source folder which describes how everything is built. It's not the most readable/cleanest thing I wrote, however |
| 13:20.28 | saiborg | Ah. I've overheard people talk of the MAKE file |
| 13:20.32 | PulkoMandy | there are several popular build systems like that, I can think of autotools and cmake which are rather popular for C and C++ projects |
| 13:20.42 | saiborg | Is that the file that runs the rest of the program/. |
| 13:20.43 | PulkoMandy | Java projects would probably use Ant or Maven for this |
| 13:20.43 | saiborg | ? |
| 13:20.57 | PulkoMandy | no, it compiles everything and creates the executable |
| 13:21.25 | saiborg | So you link all the files to this. How? |
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| 13:22.04 | PulkoMandy | there are resources about this online, for example (from a quick google search: http://mrbook.org/tutorials/make/) |
| 13:22.31 | saiborg | Ah thanks |
| 13:23.24 | saiborg | I'll check out everything you've said. |
| 13:23.26 | saiborg | :) |
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| 16:00.10 | carols | serves some tea and coffee |
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| 17:47.25 | olasd | belatedly grabs a cup of tea |
| 17:47.51 | carols | enjoy, iâm sure itâs still hot |
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| 20:07.27 | badescunicu | carols: I didn't have the chance to tell you "thanks for the t-shirt, it is awesome"! :D |
| 20:08.07 | carols | badescunicu: youâre welcome! |
| 20:08.13 | carols | thanks very much for not having a complaint :-) |
| 20:08.41 | meflin | not many complaints here this year |
| 20:08.49 | badescunicu | green is my favorite color :) |
| 20:09.02 | carols | yeah, the participants have been very good about emailing me directly and keeping it off the mailing lists |
| 20:09.05 | carols | which iâm glad about |
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| 22:18.21 | umccullough | carols, is there likely to be another lottery for hotel rooms? |
| 22:18.36 | carols | umccullough: no, our deadline was a long time ago :-) |
| 22:18.42 | umccullough | k |
| 22:19.05 | meflin | error tea to hot |
| 22:24.17 | mtrythall | Howdy! I'm with BotBot.me. We received a request to log this channel. Is there an OP around I can speak with? |
| 22:24.46 | meflin | you want to log a channel that has a usual user load of 300 ppl? |
| 22:25.24 | umccullough | also, this channel is already logged... |
| 22:25.30 | meflin | by its own services |
| 22:26.19 | carols | what umccullough and meflin said. |
| 22:27.33 | mtrythall | Size of the channel isn't really a concern for us. And I'm merely responding to a request we received. |
| 22:27.48 | mtrythall | I'll delete the request, np |
| 22:28.17 | meflin | !logs |
| 22:28.18 | gsocbot | meflin: "logs" is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc/ |
| 22:28.23 | meflin | already handled :) |
| 22:29.02 | umccullough | the one annoyance of those logs is that it seems you gotta wait for the end of the day to see them |
| 22:29.13 | meflin | piffle |
| 22:29.14 | umccullough | making it difficult to "catch up" if you just joined |
| 22:29.52 | meflin | patience is a virtue |
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