IRC log for #gsoc on 20140307

00:03.27stqismThis place gets really off topic sometimes
00:03.34rlyshwlol sry bout that
00:04.56downeybrews some tea
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00:06.18downeystqism: tea is always on topic, right?
00:06.42stqismalways
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00:07.37umcculloughis always off topic
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00:14.26madrazr!anyone | olly
00:14.27gsocbotolly: "anyone" is Instead of looking for mentors from specific projects here, you will likely get much better results by speaking to that mentoring organization directly. You can find an org's contact information via the org list at http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/org/list/public/google/gsoc2014
00:14.37madrazrolly: sorry, I wanted to experiment that :)
00:15.08ollys'ok, i'm an idiot
00:15.24madrazrolly: no no, I really got curious about what it did
00:15.31madrazrolly: but did not know whom to redirect to
00:15.46madrazrolly: who else to redirect to
00:15.58ollysure, np
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05:31.34raviHey there !! I am Ravi, A GSoc 2014 student aspirant
05:32.31stqismI see, anything we can help you with?
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05:34.40raviActually I am in a process of finding Ovirt IRC
05:34.48ravican u hel me?
05:34.51ravihelp*
05:35.56Niharikaravi: http://www.ovirt.org/Communication
05:36.27raviThank you Niharika
05:37.01NiharikaIt was a five-second google search.
05:37.03umcculloughlooks like they're not on freenode
05:37.41ollynot all orgs use IRC
05:38.02ollybut if you look at their homepage in melange, you'll see they're on oftc: http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/org2/google/gsoc2014/ovirt
05:38.03umcculloughthey use irc.oftc.net
05:38.06thiagoand even those that do, some use different networks
05:38.32ollywe might all have to the way freenode seems to be holding up
05:38.38olly+given
05:38.40umccullough;)
05:38.44umcculloughsilly freenode
05:39.03ollyi was in an exclusive version for an hour or so earlier
05:39.04ravitrue : umccullough
05:39.16ollyless than 100 people in here on that one
05:39.46umcculloughis it wrong to have 8 wifi routers currently in use at my house?
05:40.04umcculloughjust installed dd-wrt on another wrt54g
05:40.51ollyjust a few more and you can have one on every channel
05:41.03ollyhow big is your house though?
05:41.06umcculloughwell, channels have overlapping frequencies
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05:41.16umcculloughmy house is about 4000 sq ft actually, two stories
05:41.26umcculloughbut i'm repeating the signal down to my other house now
05:41.26ollyumccullough: yeah, i know
05:41.44umcculloughi also avoid channel 6 since several neighbors use it :/
05:42.08umccullough6 acres to cover :)
05:42.27ollynow you're just showing off
05:42.31umcculloughheh
05:42.38umcculloughi just put this router out in the bathroom next to the pond
05:43.04umcculloughthen i'm gonna put one in the pump house down the hill
05:43.11umcculloughand hopefully that's enough to get me to the other house
05:43.46umcculloughi really don't feel likey paying for a 3rd DSL line
05:44.40umcculloughi think i'm gonna put all my build servers and stuff down there
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05:46.18umcculloughand my wife wants me to setup some nightvision security cameras at the barn on the other corner of the property
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05:46.40umcculloughmight be time to build some wok antennas
05:49.38prasoon2211_<PROTECTED>
05:51.20stqismumccullough: You use powerline adapters, right?
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06:16.44umcculloughstqism, nope
06:17.26umcculloughboth houses are on different meters
06:17.56umcculloughso, i couldn't really utilize powerline adapters to transmit the signal down there anyway
06:18.44stqismumccullough: Damn, in my home powerline is beautiful
06:18.48umcculloughif i was feeling up to it, i guess i could bury some cat5
06:19.29umcculloughonce i get the house wired up, i can eliminate most of my wifi routers in the house
06:19.39umcculloughi have a 1000' box of cat6 ready to use
06:19.44umcculloughjust too lazy to pull the wire :/
06:19.44stqismIt wouldn't be a bad idea
06:20.14umcculloughmy previous house was completely wired, i ran conduit in all the walls and pulls cat5e into the attic and a central wire closet
06:21.01umcculloughof course, that's easy to do when you're ripping walls apart and doing new sheetrock :)
06:21.56stqismI rent, so that's out of the question for me :P being in my early 20's, powerline adapters + wifi routers with ddwrt formed in to an oslr mesh is a lot nicer than finding a bank who'll give me a mortgage :)
06:22.07umcculloughyeah
06:22.35umcculloughwhat powerline adapters do you use?
06:22.40umcculloughi've been meaning to try some
06:23.28stqismI'd have to check the brand, but I got them off ebay for real cheap. Rated to 500 mbps
06:24.04umcculloughit would be good temporary solution and elminate some of the wifi routers in client mode
06:24.54stqismI recommend using them as much as possible, the drop in bandwidth with a mess of routers sucks
06:25.08umcculloughindeed
06:25.19umcculloughi have a closet picked out on the lower floor already
06:25.33umcculloughbut getting motivated to pull wire is hard
06:25.43stqismFloors? closets? Where do YOU live? Gosh
06:26.05umcculloughas i mentioned before, it's a 2 story ~4000 sq ft house
06:26.12stqismI have the luxury of closets and 1400 square feet, for too much.
06:26.35umcculloughit's on a slope
06:26.47umcculloughlower floor goes under the garage, and that's where the kids bedrooms are ;)
06:26.54stqismMakes more sense
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06:28.54umcculloughi live in a rural area of northern california...
06:29.36stqismMakes even more sense. I live in an overpriced area of socal
06:29.42umcculloughright
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06:30.31umcculloughmorning PulkoMandy
06:30.41PulkoMandyhello world!
06:30.53stqismPulkoMandy: But...you didn't even compile.
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06:36.52PulkoMandystqism: ... I'm interpreted?
06:37.01stqismHuh
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11:15.06vishuhello sir!
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11:24.13tachyonsvishu, hello
11:24.52vishuSir is mailing list  closed by now ?
11:24.55vishubecause
11:25.06vishui am not able to recieve any reply
11:25.36vishuI wanted to propose a new idea
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11:26.26vishuWhich may not be related to any of your projects but last year it was accepted but I was new so was not able to finish it .
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11:27.58tachyonsvishu  , which org?
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11:29.03vishuSir it was Sugar labs
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11:29.53vishubut this time I have something new and as I am 4th year student so now i have sufficient time to give to my project and would defiantly complete it ..
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11:34.04tachyonshttps://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
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11:39.12vishuNo sir i dont need the link I wanted to propose a new idea
11:39.20vishuI wanted to work with you
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11:40.10tachyonsvishu, this is general gsoc channel
11:40.23tachyonsnot specific to sugarlabs
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11:40.38tachyonsso it is difficult to find your mentor here
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11:40.57tachyonsSo always use mailing list for proposing new idea
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11:43.16vishuI know Sir but actually i was not being replied over their so opted for IRC instead
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11:47.28ollyvishu: there probably aren't any mentors from sugarlabs here
11:47.44ollyif they don't have their own irc channel, you'll have to email them
11:47.59vishuNo Sir i dont wanted to work with suger labs now
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11:48.11vishui thought you might listen to my idea once
11:48.51ollygenerally having an idea and trying to find an org to mentor it doesn't work
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11:49.39ollystudent supplied ideas can make good projects, but they're almost always ideas the students have *when they look at a particular org's existing code*
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11:50.43tachyonshttp://chat.sugarlabs.org:9090/
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11:51.01tachyons#sugar
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12:08.27DragooonHello, I'm a first year university student interested in participating in GSoC, I had a question
12:08.32sumanahHi Dragooon
12:08.34sumanahgo ahead and ask!
12:08.35sumanahwelcome
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12:08.43DragooonSince Student registration starts from March 10th, I take that means this is the period we submit our proposals?
12:09.08LordAroindeed
12:09.17sumanahDragooon: officially to Melange, yes
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12:09.35sumanahDragooon: getting feedback from the mentors and other developers in the project early will help you a lot
12:09.50DragooonI totally forgot March 10th and had April 10th in my mind, it suddenly hit me it's March
12:10.01sumanahthat sort of thing happens to me too sometimes :)
12:10.16rigelkwhat's the purpose of #melange ?
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12:10.28sumanahrigelk: for people to get help with Melange specifically
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12:10.53DragooonAs in melange the OS software Google wrote for their own stuff
12:11.01sumanahDragooon: you put your proposal up on a wiki page or send it to the mailing list for your project and get feedback
12:11.02DragooonIt's available for free for anyone else to use if someone wants to conduct something similar
12:11.04sumanahmake it better
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12:11.46DragooonJoomla! is something I'd be probably the strongest at
12:12.03DragooonOh yeah, another question, how does the 5 proposal limit work?
12:12.22sumanahDragooon: btw have you already read the manual/guide?
12:12.36DragooonCan it be any combination of total 5 proposals? Or do they have to be limited to one org
12:12.43DragooonI read the GSoC FAQ
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12:13.05sumanahDragooon: http://en.flossmanuals.net/GSoCStudentGuide/ is super helpful
12:13.17sumanahhttp://en.flossmanuals.net/GSoCStudentGuide/ch008_writing-a-proposal/ for instance
12:13.27sumanahDragooon: you do NOT have to limit yourself to one org
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12:16.16rigelkbtw, the aim of GSoC is to discover opensource communities as well. Dragooon, you should check others orgs, just to have a better understanding of it all. like #mdo :]
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12:17.04Dragooonrigelk: Joomla! is something I have never actually worked with, I've used it but on the surface. But it's something I'd like to get into since it has a wide application
12:17.24DragooonSo I thought it'd be a good opportunity to start with, I'll have three more proposals so I'll check out MDO as well. Thanks!
12:18.19rigelkDragooon: #mdo is just for fun, be warned. troll ahead :p
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12:18.47sumanahDragooon: I really want to remind you that fewer high-quality applications are better than more low-quality ones
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12:19.16sumanahand that mentors and org admins also make decisions partially based on whether they have seen that student show any lasting interest in the org
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12:19.35rigelksumanah, he might do more high-quality applications as well !
12:19.45Dragooonsumanah: Yeah I understand that, I don't have any prior coding experience with Joomla! though. So I'm not sure how that'll factor in
12:19.55sumanahbtw Dragooon what pronoun do you prefer?
12:20.08Dragooonsumanah: he works well
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12:20.11sumanahthx
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12:20.54sumanahDragooon: at least with Wikimedia, where I work, we really like it if the applicant tries to fix some small bugs during the application process
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12:21.09DragooonWait, Wikimedia is also participating?
12:21.12DragooonOh yay
12:21.23rigelksumanah: are there lots of first year of universiy, inexperimented coder like Dragooon and me, to participate to GSoC ?
12:21.28DragooonAre you a mentor?
12:21.51DragooonI am not an unexperienced coder btw, I am just a first year
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12:22.05sumanahyeah, I'm a mentor & org admin
12:22.19PalashGuys tell me if it's difficult to get selected in an org which has been selected for first time.
12:22.33bePoliteDragooon: that doesn't mean you're not unexperienced
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12:22.55DragooonbePolite: No, but I'm not unexperienced.
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12:23.12rigelkDragooon: sry, i didn't mean to say that :/
12:23.13bePoliteI didn't mean you are
12:23.25gevaertsPalash: there are too many factors involved to answer that :)
12:23.42DragooonAs in I do have a lot of coding experience, so I want to jump in GSoC since I finally have the chance
12:24.06sumanahrigelk: yes, there are lots of first-year university students who participate in GSoC
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12:24.24sumanahhttps://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2014 is Wikimedia's page
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12:24.55Dragooonsumanah: What are the chances for someone not experienced in MediaWiki itself to be considered for a slot?
12:25.02LordAroDragooon: "a lot"
12:25.07gevaertsPalash: if it's a popular organisation, and your proposal is fairly good but not exceptional, you're probably not going to get selected. If your proposal is very good, and the organisation is not extremely popular, you'll get selected
12:25.10PulkoMandythat's the goal of GSoC
12:25.11sumanahDragooon: I can't give you an exact number. Your chances improve as you show up
12:25.18PulkoMandyget more people working on open source project
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12:25.33sumanahDragooon: Read the page https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2014 , read the manual - those will give you a lot of info
12:25.35DragooonOkay, cool. Thanks
12:25.51PulkoMandyat least here at Haiku we will try to pick students that are new to the project
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12:25.55DragooonYeah I'm reading, a lot of reading
12:26.05PulkoMandyfor example, we won't pick the same student two years in a row
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12:27.25sumanahDragooon: I wrote something about 'the rhythm of help' http://www.harihareswara.net/sumana/2014/02/26/0 that you might find helpful as well
12:27.46DragooonCurrently I'm browsing all the ideas pages
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12:27.54sumanahcool
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12:28.12bePolitecool man
12:28.31DragooonAnd looking into stuff that I find interested (as in cool ideas which I'd use)
12:28.39bePoliteJust that most cool projects have some competition
12:28.43DragooonSo I'll start bugging the mentors in a day or so about them before applying
12:29.00sumanahDragooon: :) showing up and being in contact on the mailing list, etc is good
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12:29.07sumanah(the project's mailing list)
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12:29.47DragooonSo how do I show up? Hi, I'm a GSoC student and x, y, z ideas interest me?
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12:30.03novochenyes, Dragooon
12:30.39novocheni did that, though no reply till now
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12:31.45sumanahI think asking specific questions in your introduction is good
12:32.12sumanahnot just "how do I get started" but "I thought about doing it this way; would that have too many performance liabilities?" etc
12:32.14DragooonWhat happens if I apply to multiple orgs and get multiple acceptance? (Not to sound too arrogant or something)
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12:32.42novochenthe orgs will figure it out, I assume
12:32.53sumanahDragooon: the organizations have a deduplication meeting
12:32.57PulkoMandyDragooon: the orgs decide who keeps you
12:33.09PulkoMandythey will probably ask you for your choice, but they aren't forced to do so
12:33.19sumanah"First round of de-duplication checks happens; organizations work together to try to resolve as many duplicates as possible." 15 April
12:33.27PulkoMandy(let's say if one of the orgs has many good students, and the other doesn't)
12:33.27gevaertsWell
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12:33.39sumanahDragooon: the polite thing to do is to mention to the mentors that you have submitted multiple proposals
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12:33.57gevaertsThey *may* ask for your preference. I'm not convinced that happens often enough to make it probable
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12:34.58DragooonSo...mentors sit in a round table and auction away the students? :P
12:35.04novochensh!t, melange seems to be blocked by GFW
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12:35.37gevaertsDragooon: for the last few unresolved cases, more or less :)
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12:35.57sumanahDragooon: it's an IRC room and "auction" implies that someone gets a reward for saying "you take this one"
12:35.59gevaertsMost duplicates are resolved in private conversation between orgs (and maybe students) though
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12:54.40DragooonOh god #mdo is a total troll thing
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12:55.33PulkoMandywe are most desirable!
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12:56.28DragooonCertainly
12:56.39DragooonProposal #1: Make a new site
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12:56.43DragooonProposal #2: Burn the previous site
12:57.13astrofrogI wonder if anyone will submit a proposal next year for GSoC for the "Most Desirable Organization"
12:57.22astrofrogas an org application
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12:57.50DragooonYou mean no one has so far? Most shameful
12:57.59astrofroggood question actually
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12:59.43bePoliteI plan to submit
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13:00.22PulkoMandyastrofrog: http://mostdesirable.org - we are working on it!
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13:01.14astrofrogfantastic!
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13:01.32astrofrogI'm a little worried other orgs will see a drop in student applications though
13:01.37astrofrogif MDO gets accepted
13:02.46astrofrogI guess competition is good
13:04.10gevaertsthinks that the acceptance of MDO is not really something other organisations need to worry about
13:04.20astrofrog;)
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13:05.16rigelkDragooon: mdo was created 2 days ago, so having no student so far is quite normal ; however, we got proposals already ^^'
13:05.19bePolitelol I think time has passed for the acceptance
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13:06.19gevaertsbePolite: it hasn't. MDO was granted a highly exceptional extension
13:06.45PulkoMandybecause it is most desirable
13:07.28sumanahFor all the newbies in the channel who don't understand: a student contacted MANY orgs this year and told each of them that they were the "Most Desirable Organisation". We are now making fun of this circumstance by pretending that there really is one.
13:09.19rigelkseriously, MDO could become a good information center for newbies, beside its natural world-class troll status.
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13:20.29downeyrigelk: most desirable help?
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13:25.20rigelkexactly. downey , mdo is an umbrella for everything. mdo has 42 projects. mdo has tea. end of story :]
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13:26.55novochen42 mentors, 42 ideas, 42 students
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13:38.08chockosometimes projects have a futile origin, but they eventually can be transformed to be the greater good by the amout of people it attracts
13:38.22chockolike the web framework flask
13:39.18kblin?
13:39.26kblinfutile origin?
13:39.36chockoso it would not be a so bad idea to make MDO something really useful, like a set of advices for applying to gsoc
13:40.38chockofutile like useless  or also like it is a joke
13:41.57chockoi agree with the statement of rigelk : "seriously, MDO could become a good information center for newbies, beside its natural world-class troll status."
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13:42.42kblinthe reference to flask threw me off, as that's actually a decent web framework.. or rather a nice finish over werkzeug
13:43.53chockoyes it really good
13:44.17sumanahI've used Flask and it seemed fine :)
13:44.17chockoat the begiining it was just a joke
13:44.45chockoand finally the dev started reaaly to build it
13:45.16kblinbut the main part of the business logic still is in werkzeug, which already existed at the time
13:45.27chockomayle i did not used good words to explain my thouhts, my bad, sorry
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13:45.55kblinanyway, I understood what you meant, now :)
13:47.13PulkoMandyyou guys can join the MDO and make it even more most desirable :)
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13:47.37kblinI'm happy to help with admining MDO for gsoc 2015, as I'm sure the mentors are all great as well
13:49.12chockobtw, why the bitcoin adress ?
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13:51.02PulkoMandyI guess we have at least the domain name to pay for?
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13:51.07PulkoMandyI don't know who gets the money
13:51.34kblinit's a wiki, right? you should be able to see who added it :)
13:52.11PulkoMandynot the home page, I think
13:53.06kblinah, right
13:53.24kblinI haven't used google code since forever :)
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13:54.42PulkoMandywell, yes... most of their updates *remove* features... :(
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14:01.22downeyThe BTC donations allow most desirable resources
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14:02.23downeyNeed to ask carols for advice on most desirable t-shirts
14:03.11kblinMDO will stock women's cuts, though, and as opposed to other t-shirt providers, MDO's will be the correct size
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14:04.01jbischIs the BTC address the official most desirable address?
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14:05.13downeyIsn't dogecoin more desirable these days?
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14:18.18jbischYes, dogecoin cannot go anywhere but the moon. We will all be rich.
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14:21.02sumanahDr3amc0d3r|away: hi!
14:21.16sumanahoh sorry, I thought you were someone else I knew.
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14:21.47shivammaxhello!
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14:24.09sumanahhi shivammax
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14:54.48lordkryss!logs
14:54.48gsocbotlordkryss: "logs" is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc/
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15:22.31rihbynePulkoMandy: what is MDO ?
15:22.51downeyrihbyne: Visit #mdo for details
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15:29.16JordiGHHow many Indians did we get last year?
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15:32.04shivammaxI suppose there were a lot.
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15:32.29shivammaxAt least around 20+ were from IIIT-Hyderabad!
15:33.32rihbynelots of IITians and they are experienced and eating newbie slots :P
15:34.04rihbyneJordiGH: ^
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15:34.34JordiGHSo, what's a reasonable yearly salary for a programmer in India?
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15:34.43darnirYou get lots of IITians, IIITians and BITSians
15:34.43JordiGHTwo GSoCs? Three?
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15:34.57JordiGHEight GSoCs?
15:35.15darnirJordiGH: Eight is about right
15:35.40JordiGHI've heard stories of so many people making so much less money than that.
15:36.07darnirWell, you have lower paying jobs too.
15:36.13PulkoMandyI do :/
15:36.26PulkoMandybut, I work for an open source project - so it's ok
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15:36.46JordiGHHm, two GSoC is what this says: http://www.staff.com/blog/web-developer-salaries-infographic/
15:36.47darnirEight is around what one of the students from those institutes might bag.
15:37.12JordiGHSo one GSoC is already 6 months pay.
15:37.57rihbyneseriously IITians grap slots quickly
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15:38.17darnirLast year I made more through one GSoC than most of my friends made through 6 month internships.
15:38.36darnirAnd more than a couple made lesser through their jobs for the whole year
15:39.24JordiGHRight, so GSoC is a lot of money in India. I wonder if this alone explains why we get so many Indians.
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15:40.00stqismJordiGH: You might be on to something obvious
15:40.35JordiGHstqism: Yeah, I know it's kind of obvious, was just wondering exactly how alluring the money is.
15:40.44JordiGH6 months salary? Wow.
15:40.44rihbyneJordiGH: what have you decided then.
15:40.51rihbyne:D
15:40.59JordiGHrihbyne: Decided? Nothing.
15:41.00stqismJordiGH: 6 months worth would be a damn lot
15:41.07downeyJordiGH: GSoC is a lot of money most places.
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15:41.31darnirWell, the difference is in the fact that the dollar is overpriced in a lot of places.
15:41.39JordiGHdowney: Yeah, but it's about the same as a summer undergraduate research grant in the US or Canada.
15:41.51JordiGHdowney: As an undergrad, I made about the same amount for a summer of marking papers.
15:41.55downeyJordiGH: Most of the world doesn't live in the US or Canada. :)
15:42.21darnirJordiGH: Cost of living matters.
15:42.36PalashActually GSoC for me isn't about the money, but the experience of coding and learning !
15:42.50TCDmoney's nice though
15:42.58JordiGHMoney's a good antidepressant.
15:42.59stqismPalash: That's what they all say ;)
15:43.00shivammaxYeah, specially because we're on the Open Source ride, why even talk money
15:43.01PalashMost Indians don't consider getting any money for internships at all.
15:43.04darnirI know first hand as an Indian who is currently staying in EU. We pay less than half the price for most of the commodities.
15:43.18JordiGHshivammax: "Open source" doesn't mean "gratis".
15:43.42JordiGHshivammax: There are many examples of successful commercial free software.
15:43.51PulkoMandydarnir: beware about EU, I think you can double the prices of everything by moving from Slovakia to Norway :)
15:43.53Palashstqism : No, it;s actually true. Since india itself doesnt have a great big coder base
15:43.59rihbynejava is hybrid one
15:44.00shivammaxJordiGH: I meant the comparison. Yeah I would definitely need some money to keep my life going
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15:44.19darnirstqism: If it was about the money, I'd have come back as a student, not forgone $5500 to be a mentor
15:44.34stqismdarnir: :P
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15:45.19stqismshivammax: That's always a funny thought, off what I have saved up I could live in Vietnam comfortably for a while, due to the tiny cost of living
15:45.24darnirAnd as just mentioned, that is *a lot* of money when looking at the living expenses in India
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15:46.12darnirPulkoMandy: True. But I'm already halfway there in Germany. It can't get too much worse now.
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15:55.44carolsserves some coffee and tea
15:55.57downeyTeaGIF
15:56.18carolshi downey
15:56.30downeycarols: Hi, Carol! Happy Friday.
15:56.45carolshappy friday to you as well :-)
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16:07.41narendraj9__Since the whole idea behind gsoc is to help people get started in open source, I think it would be better if people aren't allowed to participate in consecutive years. This would ensure that new people enter the open source community.
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16:08.38gevaertsnarendraj9__: is that the whole idea behind it though?
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16:09.19narendraj9__gevaerts, that's what I think it is. Correct me if I am wrong. :-)
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16:10.15gevaertsnarendraj9__: I'd say http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2014/help_page#3._What_are_the_goals_of_this_program is the best answer
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16:12.11gevaertsOrganisations can (and several do) decide that *their* primary goal is to get new people, but gsoc as a whole doesn't really have a single specific goal like that
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16:13.48carolsnarendraj9__: it's certainly one of the ideas behind gsoc.
16:13.57carolsbut i would certainly not call it the "whole" idea
16:14.10Ivanovicnarendraj9__: for us at wesnoth there are basically 2 ideas:
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16:14.14Ivanovic1) get new people in
16:14.21Ivanovic2) kickstart some areas which really need love
16:14.40Ivanovicand yeah, not always both are fullfilled
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16:15.44narendraj9__okay. Sometimes to get things done, better and experienced people are needed. I got the idea.
16:15.51Ivanovicand if the folks have any expience in open source: we don't care!
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16:16.11Ivanovicso if folks have experience with other projects: fine by us
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16:16.39Ivanovicif they don't: does not matter
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16:16.57Ivanovicwhat matters is that they are able to work together with us, so fit into our community
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16:19.16stqismIvanovic: Fitting in is very big with us
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16:24.14Ivanovicstqism: i hope that is the case for every org
16:24.16Ivanovic;)
16:24.38stqism:P
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17:05.491JTAALGBF!numapps
17:05.50gsocbot1JTAALGBF: "numapps" is In 2014, 190 of 371 mentoring orgs were accepted. 2013: 117/417 orgs; 4144 students submitted 5999 proposals, of which 1192 were accepted. 2012: 180/406 orgs; 1212/6685 proposals (by 4258 students). 2011: 175/417 orgs; 1116/5474 proposals (by 3731 students). 2010: 151/367 orgs; 1026/5539 proposals (by 3464 students)
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17:10.20cardinot#iprj
17:11.28umccullough117 of 417 in 2013?
17:11.30umcculloughthat sounds wrong...
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17:12.20umcculloughshould be 177
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17:14.05Mathnerd314is the list of people who have signed up as mentors available somewhere? I'm trying to narrow down my list of projects and some of them basically require a specific person to be the mentor
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17:27.55umcculloughMathnerd314, not sure i follow
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17:36.23Mathnerd314well, I want to know if e.g. "Has Simon Peyton Jones signed up as a mentor for Haskell yet?"
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17:36.50ishan1604IRC channel of Haskell awaits you
17:37.07Mathnerd314he's not on there... :-)
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17:38.02umcculloughyou'll have to ask each org
17:38.34umcculloughonce a mentor creates a profile and requests connection to an org, the admin is responsible for assigning them. I'm not aware of any way to search this on melange, but you can certainly ask in #melange
17:39.02Mathnerd314hmm, ok then.
17:39.12umcculloughalso, i would assume each org has indicated somewhere on their ideas pages which mentors *intend* to participate this year
17:39.21ishan1604Yes right
17:39.28Mathnerd314not Haskell... :p
17:39.35umcculloughshame on them ;)
17:40.04Mathnerd314well, I did ask them, they said they basically pick which proposals they like and then coerce various people into being mentors
17:40.18umcculloughugh
17:40.44umcculloughseems like a poor practice IMO
17:41.55Mathnerd314how would you recommend doing it?
17:41.57umcculloughin any case, it's entirely possible that melange has a way to discover the mentors, but i don't know how
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17:42.15umcculloughmost orgs are encouraged to provide a list of mentors that have committed for the year
17:42.26umcculloughit's recommended anyway
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17:42.53edsiperumccullough, your goal at this point is not your mentor, is your organization, if you ask something about X project, you will get a reply
17:43.15umcculloughhuh?
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17:50.01terriMathnerd314: Why not ask Simon  Peyton Jones directly, if he's the one mentor you care about right now?
17:50.31Mathnerd314he's not, actually, I have like 20 mentors for 20 different project ideas
17:50.52Mathnerd314I could theoretically ask them all, but it feels like spamming
17:51.47terriIn that case, I'd suggest you should probably use the public mailing lists to discuss your ideas, and see which mentors get interested. :)
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17:52.06umcculloughindeed, list them all off and see who bites
17:52.13umcculloughyou can only submit 5 proposals
17:53.35Mathnerd314hmm, ok then. mailing list it is.
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17:55.59Mathnerd314I think SPJ does read the mailing lists occasionally, actually...
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18:06.26rigelkMathnerd314: the only spam is when you apply for Most Desirable Org ^^
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18:16.47Mathnerd314rigelk: you mean someone writing "Most Desirable Org" into the application?
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18:19.37rigelkyes ^^ some student has sent such a mail to many mentors recently ;)
18:19.53umcculloughhttp://pastebin.com/fi4eNBf3
18:20.20terriit's resulted in this: mostdesirable.org
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18:23.04Mathnerd314hmm, were they accepted this year?
18:23.17umcculloughmostdesirable.org? we're working on it
18:23.46blast007Mathnerd314: it's an inside joke :P
18:24.13umcculloughnext year for sure!
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18:24.41Mathnerd314I dunno, just thinking about that logo to svg converter
18:24.57umcculloughheh
18:24.58terriMathnerd314: the entire org is a joke. :)
18:25.04umcculloughi actually found two projects that sorta already do it
18:25.07rigelkoh, interested Mathnerd314 ? :)
18:25.20umcculloughTurtleArt has a save to SVG feature
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18:26.07umcculloughanyone is free to work on MDO tasks even outside of GSoC
18:26.15umcculloughwe'll give you commit access to the git repo
18:26.46Mathnerd314hmm, not much point if it's already implemented
18:27.07umcculloughyeah, i searched around after the idea was added to the list :/
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18:28.01Mathnerd314and all the others are super hard
18:28.14umcculloughwe're open to proposals
18:28.35Mathnerd314eh, I think I'll stick to Haskell
18:28.48umccullough:)
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18:30.18territhat reminds me, I need to add my other project idea to mostdesirable.org
18:30.37terriI suppose my android build is going to tak ea while anyhow...
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18:34.28warthog9offers carols some tea
18:34.34carolsthank warthog9
18:34.36carols:-)
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18:37.13CFS-MP3carols will you be around for some time? I had to ask you something and I don't remember what it was, but it will come to me :-)
18:37.31carolsCFS-MP3: i'm here now. i make no guarantees as to later.
18:37.33carolsbut anyway
18:37.37carolswhy not just email?
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18:38.56CFS-MP3I save email for the most formal stuff :-)
18:39.00chroam I allowed to apply for 2 projects?
18:39.11chroso that I can have a fallback plan
18:39.17chroin case I am not accepted in 1 of them
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18:39.50CFS-MP3chro, up to 5 I think
18:40.20chroand I need to state that in my proposals? that I am applying for several ones
18:40.38umcculloughup to 5 proposals, for one or more projects
18:40.45CFS-MP3don't know about other projects but so far I haven't received any proposal formally but I can already tell many things about the students who have contacted me
18:40.53darnirchro: Always a good idea not to give your mentors a surprise
18:41.00rigelkchro: no need to mention ; b imho
18:41.19CFS-MP3so I'm saying that if you've already discussed things with orgs most likely you can figure out the chances of being accepted or not
18:41.26rigelkbut yeah, surprises don't mix well with orgs
18:41.43chroyhe thing is that not all projects for a given org are accepted
18:42.02chrolast year I applied for one and discussed things with my mentor, but the project was left out of GSoC
18:42.18chrocause apache have a fixed amount of slots
18:42.25darnirThe point will most probably come up in deduplication talks. If the org already knows about your other applications, they can ask you for your choice. Else, it'll all be to your disadvantage
18:43.13terriYou don't *need* to tell the orgs, but yeah, you'll need to be prepared to choose very quickly if you come up in deduplication
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18:43.41chrosomeone will ask me to choose?
18:43.58rigelksomeone may. or not.
18:44.12rigelkmay not*
18:44.14terrichro: Depends.  sometimes one org needs you way more than the other and they'll get you regardless.  But sometimes both have equal needs and they'll ask you your preference.
18:44.21terriBe prepared to answer
18:44.39territhe last thing we want to hear at that point is "can you give me a few days?" because we generally have only hours to work it out.
18:44.42chrook, that's no problem at all
18:45.48CFS-MP3do students know if they're been accepted to more than one and that there's a deduplication process affecting them, or they just get a notification of the final outcome?
18:46.49darnirCFS-MP3: It depends. Sometimes you get a choice, other times you done
18:46.51chroI think you cannot be accepted for more than one
18:46.53darnirdont*
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18:49.14CFS-MP3darnir but even when you don't get a choice you at least get some notification that more than one project had accepted you? (even if then you don't get to choose unless the projects are nice enough to ask)
18:49.19gevaertsNo
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18:50.09gevaertsThe bit where orgs can ask you is actually bending the rules already
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18:51.54warthog9gevaerts: orgs should ask that up front, if a student has applied elsewhere, and where on their preference list their org is
18:52.07gevaertsnods
18:52.24gevaertsWhen I was involved with selecting students, we did exactly that
18:52.26warthog9we usually ask it during the interview
18:53.00terriWe don't always ask, but many students tell us up-front
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18:55.20rigelkwarthog9: there is an interview ?
18:55.40warthog9rigelk: some orgs may request/require an interview
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18:56.14gevaertsUsing various media, from irc to phone
18:56.15warthog9rigelk: we do a 1hr irc chat, go over the app, ask a bunch of questions and throw a coding exercise at the students
18:56.45warthog9we've always found it to be exceedingly useful
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19:01.24rigelkit sure is. what org do you represent, warthog9 ?
19:01.35warthog9I'm with SyncDiff(erent) this year
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19:02.15warthog9I've been part of git, ran kernel.org for a number of years, etherboot, python and probably a couple more I've forgotten in the 7years I've been doing GSoC
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19:03.45chrowarthog9, have you ever did internship at google?
19:03.56yuriy-kHello! Is Carol Smith online?
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19:04.41gevaertscarols: visitors for you :)
19:04.45carolshi
19:04.51carolshow can i help?
19:04.53warthog9chro: no, I'm a little old to do an internship
19:05.10chrohow old are you?
19:05.19yuriy-kHi! Yes please - I would like to clarify -
19:05.19carolschro: want to take this to a PM, please?
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19:05.23yuriy-kI am a student of Cousera - may I participate GSoC?
19:05.36carolsyuriy-k: i don't know. is that an accredited university?
19:05.57chroit's not a university
19:06.04chroit's an online learning platform
19:06.22yuriy-kcarols: seems like - no. (Cousrera - https://www.coursera.org/ )
19:06.29carolsyuriy-k: then no, that doesn't count
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19:08.46yuriy-kOk. Thanks. At least I tried ((
19:08.54carolsok
19:08.55carolscheers
19:09.30yuriy-kOne more question :
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19:09.53carolsyes??
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19:10.38yuriy-kIs there any MOOS that allows students to participate GSoC?
19:11.10carolsit's not a question of MOOCS allowing students to participate. it's a question of students meeting GSoC's eligibility criteria.
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19:11.18warthog9chro: I'm in my mid 30s
19:11.35carolswarthog9: want to take this to a PM, please?
19:12.23chrocarols, btw, can you confirm that I can make up to 5 proposals, and that in case I get accepted for more than one, someone will ask me to choose one?
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19:12.36carolschro: no, they don't have to ask you.
19:12.42carolsso don't apply for an org you don't want to work for
19:13.40umcculloughput another way: the orgs may discuss the overlapping proposals amongst themselves without your input
19:13.42yuriy-kOk, so - Is there any MOOS that satisfy GSoC's eligibility criteria?
19:13.56carolsyuriy-k: are there any MOOCS that are accredited universities?
19:14.19chroI was thinking of applying for more than 1 project in the same org. Because I know that not all projects are selected for GSoC due to available slots each org has
19:15.20umcculloughchro, go for it? :)
19:15.28yuriy-kcarols, Yes -  May be you have such information (from already appoved students)?
19:15.37carolsyuriy-k: i don't, sorry
19:15.58chroumccullough, but maybe if I specify my preferences in each proposal it would be easier for an org to decide
19:16.07umcculloughsure
19:16.11chrook
19:16.12chrothanks
19:16.14scorche|shchro: communication with the org is a good thing  ;)
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19:16.37chroright
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19:17.15CFS-MP3carols are there stats about the ratio failed/total students for past years? (or failed/total projects)
19:17.24carolsCFS-MP3: sure, on our wiki
19:17.34yuriy-kcaols: ok, thanks.
19:17.40carolsyw
19:17.51downey*sigh* everyone in my office went out for tea and left me here to work :(
19:18.03carolsdowney: your life: so hard.
19:18.14downeycarols: my day was most desirable up until then
19:18.17gevaertsdowney: have some tea here!
19:18.25downeygevaerts: thanks! i think i will
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19:18.36brlcadI wish my coworkers would leave me alone more ;)
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19:19.01chrocarols, is it true that you have a playground at Google Mountain View?
19:19.12carolschro: i don't know, i don't work in mountain view.
19:19.23chrooh ok
19:19.36downeychro: closest thing i've seen there is a sand volleyball court. you can see it on google maps.
19:19.50umccullough"playground" can mean a lot of things :D
19:19.50chrook
19:20.23chroactually they have one at google zurich with a slide
19:20.32downeycarols: Do you know if any OSPO'ers are going to LibrePlanet this year?
19:20.39brlcadchro: http://searchengineland.com/figz/wp-content/seloads/2013/03/google-playground-SXSW-1362946830.jpg
19:20.41carolsdowney: not that i'm aware of..
19:21.22downeycarols: Ah ok. Still nice of y'all to sponsor it. :)
19:21.30carolsdowney: happy to :-)
19:21.55Ivanovicbrlcad: but this playground is not in mountainview...
19:22.02CFS-MP3carols will you be at I/O?
19:22.18carolsCFS-MP3: i don't think so. could change, but i don't currently have tickets
19:22.43CFS-MP3really? I guess that puts my chances of getting one into perspective
19:22.45gevaertscarols: will you be somewhere? :)
19:22.55carolsgevaerts: i am currently right here :-)
19:23.15gevaertsOh, good! :)
19:23.20carolsCFS-MP3: they don't want too many googlers at i/o. it is, after all, for the developers, not the employees.
19:23.44chrocarols, could you tell me in which office you are located?
19:23.55scorche|shcarols: you are definitely not "right here"
19:24.01carolschro: sure, san francisco.
19:24.05chrothanks
19:24.09brlcadIvanovic: i know :)
19:24.37carolsyw
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19:25.08brlcadthe flemings across the street is a nice touch :)
19:25.12CFS-MP3carols OK... hopefully there's some kind of process that gives a tad of priority to non-employees part of GSOC or something :-)
19:25.24carolsCFS-MP3: i honestly know nothing about it whatsoever :-)
19:25.27downeyI heard a rumor there will be tours of carols desk during the student/mentor summit in October
19:25.28carolsit's quite nice actually
19:25.32carolsone less thing to worry about
19:25.49downeychro: ^
19:25.49carolsdowney: you're funny.
19:25.57downeyreally hoping to get a picture of the stapler.
19:25.59CFS-MP3:-D
19:26.01stqismdowney: I'm assuming empty tea mugs, all over the place.
19:26.03downeyand the tea cozy
19:26.19chrodowney, no, actually I just want to send a letter to carols' boss
19:26.22downeystqism: i'd assumed they'd be full
19:26.37CFS-MP3should we bring a proper European cup for carols?
19:26.39stqismdowney: Depends if carols has a tea kettle on her desk as well
19:27.20carolsyou all assume i am so much messier and have so much more on my desk than i actually do...
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19:28.24chroactually a recommendation letter, about the very good job she has been carrying out with GSoC
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19:28.50carolschro: sure, you're welcome to email her.
19:28.54chroand maybe I will also send her some typical cakes from my town
19:29.02chroI mean, for you :)
19:29.04carolsplease don't send us perishables.
19:29.17brlcaditsatrap!
19:29.19carolswe don't want them nor will we eat them nor will they most likely make it through customes
19:29.21carols*customs
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19:30.10chrooh ok
19:30.30carolsbut thank you for thinking of us
19:31.07chroyw :)
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19:31.42CFS-MP3carols most European geeks are experts of getting things through customs
19:31.47CFS-MP3both in and out the US
19:31.59carolsCFS-MP3: i'm glad to hear it. still, please don't send us perishables.
19:32.02downeythe cake is a lie
19:32.58chrois it?
19:33.10chroI was just thinking of doing something nice
19:33.33chrook, let's end this conversation here.
19:34.04gjcaHello. Anyone from Freifunk around?
19:34.18carolsgjca: the best place to ask that would be to the freifunk community
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19:44.23eLobatohey could anyone give feedback on why our organization was not selected?
19:46.11downeyeLobato: Did someone from your org attend the IRC meeting for orgs that weren't selected? Perhaps that person would have some details.
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19:46.31eLobatodowney: I tried but got in too late..
19:46.47carolseLobato: i'd recommend you just email me
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19:55.53JordiGHOh, that meeting already happened?
19:55.54JordiGHCrap.
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19:58.51umccullougha week ago?
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20:00.52CFS-MP3JordiGH what meeting?
20:01.03JordiGHThe rejected org meeting.
20:01.06CFS-MP3Ah yes
20:01.07CFS-MP3it did
20:01.11JordiGHNever mind, I just found out why we got rejected.
20:01.23CFS-MP3what was your project?
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20:03.01JordiGHMercurial.
20:04.37terriJordiGH: Mercurial is going to work under the Python umbrella this year, no?
20:04.44JordiGHterri: Yeah.
20:04.57JordiGHBut I'm not very hopeful, so far only one student has expressed interest.
20:05.17terriJordiGH: still time to advertise!
20:06.05JordiGHI think the hg devs are kinda sleepy about advertising this year.
20:07.45TCDi was maybe interested but i just havent expressed it :p
20:08.00TCDfinds it hard to type and eat pizza
20:08.07JordiGHTCD: Do you like hg?
20:08.22TCDJordiGH: It was a project that struck me as interesting
20:08.31JordiGHAh, why?
20:08.43JordiGHIt's a very hackable and lively DVCS.
20:08.47JordiGHWe're the Canada of git.
20:09.00TCDI'm trying to think of a good answer to that, heh.
20:09.34JordiGHYou know about Canada theory, right? http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/005497.html
20:09.57TCDthat's neat.
20:10.25terriJordiGH: you should at least put a post up on the soc2014-general list talking about the Mercurial projects.  Python tends to attract a lot of students who are interested in python but not sure which project, and I think many of them subscribe to the list hoping osmething will jump out at them. :)
20:10.38TCDI can't really think of a reason why; I'm just someone who has gut feelings but can't really justify or explain them :p
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20:10.45TCDpast 'it sounds interesting'
20:11.08JordiGHTCD: Here's me doing some huckstering: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cov1FsopLSU
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20:13.03joshuatjHi, I would like to clarify what I've read on Student Allocations http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2014/studentallocations
20:13.15carolsjoshuatj: sure, how can i help?
20:13.20joshuatjThe second paragraph reads "Please note that if your organization has never participated in GSoC before it is unlikely you will receive more than 1-2 slots this year"
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20:13.25carolsindeed
20:13.29carolsthat is in fact the case
20:13.34joshuatjdoes that mean 1-2 slots per project or 1-2slots per mentoring org?
20:13.40carols1-2 slots per org
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20:13.50carols1-2 total students
20:14.06joshuatjhmmm... that means a new GSoC can only take 1-2 total students. Wow... that's quite competitive.
20:14.13carolsi agree
20:14.16carolsand it's for your own safety
20:14.21carolslike a seatbelt, really
20:14.57joshuatjcarols: I guess right now I just have to trust those that went before me that it is necessary :) Thanks carols for the clarification
20:15.10carolsyw
20:15.17carolsi'll tell you a quick story
20:15.26carolstwo years ago we had a new org ask for 7 slots
20:15.30carolswe gave them 2
20:15.38carolsat the mentor summit that year the org admin came up to me and said:
20:15.50carols"i just want to shake your hand and thank you for not giving me all the slots i asked for."
20:16.04carolsso there you go.
20:16.25rigelkcarols: did he explain why ?
20:16.37blast007it's more work that people think
20:16.39blast007than*
20:16.41carolsrigelk: yeah, because he didn't actually understand what he was asking for
20:17.16joshuatjcarols: I see.. haha ok.
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20:17.38carolsmost orgs don't actually understand how much work gsoc is
20:18.18TCDJordiGH: Thanks!
20:18.18carolsit's not just "oh, free developers for three months"
20:18.55JordiGHYeah, it's a lot of work to attract the students.
20:19.16carolsand a lot of work to mentor them and evaluate them and keep them on track and help them
20:19.19carolsand and and
20:19.23TCDI've seen some orgs flooded with students, or so it seems
20:19.42rigelkok :) TCD : like MDO ? ^^'
20:20.06TCDOh yeah, MDO is going to be impossible to get into..it's so fierce competition over there
20:20.44downeyis there an LDO?
20:20.53one_more_minuterigelk: MDO?
20:21.12TCD#mdo
20:21.15downeyjoshuatj: It's definitely about quality over quantity.
20:22.30JordiGHThe actual code that students have written for us has never been all that interesting. It's been more interesting to work with them after GSoC. How common is this experience?
20:22.31joshuatjdowney: ya, it does make sense to me now. Looks like it's time to up the game :p
20:22.59downeyjoshuatj: I encouraged some of our mentors to sit out this year who felt more obligated to be a mentor and were not doing it because they loved doing so
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20:30.51joshuatjdowney: wow ok. Thanks for the glimpse of how it's like to be a mentor.
20:35.16umcculloughJordiGH, the ones that stick around can be very interesting, indeed
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20:35.55downeyJordiGH: Fairly common over here
20:36.26downeyJordiGH: but then again, my first attempts at things are usually not very good compared with as i get more experience. so, i guess it's not too surprising.
20:36.55umcculloughwe had a student port nfs4 to Haiku, and then after gsoc, he built in ASLR and wrote a new process scheduler
20:39.04TCDwhy must all these projects seem so neat..
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20:41.52downeyTCD: Which are you finding most desirable?
20:42.13umcculloughone that isn't in the org list, i suspect
20:43.22TCDdowney: I figured I should apply to 2 orgs in the case that one gets a huge amount of (good) proposals or something similar
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20:44.03JordiGHSo you think you have two mediocre proposals?
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20:44.12JordiGHYou only need one good one.
20:44.42JordiGHBut more than a brilliant idea in a proposal, what most orgs want to see is early involvement and an indication that you'll work hard and stick around and enjoy working with them.
20:45.11TCDNono; I'm just planning that what if my proposal is for the same/similar thing as someone else with a better proposal.
20:46.11JordiGHTheoretically it doesn't matter if you propose the same idea as someone else, and if both are good, there may be a chance that both can work on the same thing.
20:46.23TCDhm.
20:46.25JordiGHIndividual orgs may decide that they don't want duplicate projects, though.
20:46.26terriTCD: the other way to mitigate risk of similar proposals is to submit your proposal early and talk to the mentors.
20:46.49terrisometimes it's possible to split up a project if there are multiple good students, and sometimes mentors are able to help redirect students to spread out projects.
20:46.59TCDtrue.
20:47.09terribut it's much easier to do that if you submit early and talk to them lots.
20:47.38brlcadindeed
20:48.24ollyif there are two proposals for the same idea and one's been talking to us for weeks and the other appears much later, the former almost inevitably looks more appealing
20:49.03downeyhttp://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2014/help_page#11._What_happens_if_two_students_are
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20:56.12ollydowney: I know we're allowed to accept two student working independently on the same thing, but it's always seemed a bad idea to me
20:56.24carolsolly: some orgs really want to
20:56.30carols"may the best coder win" sort of thing
20:56.33downeyolly: to me too :)
20:56.33carolssome orgs don't
20:56.36carolseither's fine
20:56.44ollycarols: i don't have a problem with that, but I'd rather not try it myself
20:56.56carolsolly: fair enough :-)
20:56.57downeyolly: i suppose there is some scenario where some A/B testing could be useful
20:56.58TCDdoesn't sound like the best use of resources :P
20:57.34ollylike nasa getting 3 versions of some control software written by students for gsoc?
20:57.49gevaertswill work hard to be gnome (or similar) org admin, and then he'll have dozens of students doing the same thing!
20:57.50carolsTCD: i've certainly heard from orgs where a really needed feature had two great proposals and they said, "great, you can both try and we'll implement the best one"
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20:58.46ollygevaerts: RAGS - Redundant Array of GSoC Students
20:58.53gevaerts:)
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20:59.25ollystep 1: RAGS, 2: riches!
20:59.27gevaertsNothing like making people redundant in the proper sense of the word :)
20:59.56terriolly: sounds like something for MDO
21:00.06TCDcarols: I'd hate to be the one who gets told 'sorry we won't use your work' :p
21:00.11ollywould be interested to here how it's worked out for orgs which have tried it
21:00.16olly*hear
21:00.18carolsTCD: you'd still get paid, why do you care? :-)
21:00.23TCDtrue.
21:00.32ollylikes to think students do care
21:00.38ollyand it isn't just for the money
21:00.50carolsolly: well, i think most students do come to gsoc just for the money.
21:00.51carolsgranted
21:00.56gevaertscarols: maybe TCD is one of those students who isn't in it *just* for the money :)
21:00.58carolslots *stay* because they realize it's great
21:01.07TCDIf I'm honest does it affect my chances? :P
21:01.16gevaertsTCD: no
21:01.29gevaertstries to trick TCD into being honest :)
21:01.39TCDI wouldn't have come if it wasn't for the money, but I would consider myself to be in it for more than the money :P
21:01.53paultagStudents do care.
21:01.58paultagwell, the ones that do well.
21:02.01paultagcough cough.
21:03.54rigelkpaultag: are we all that bad ? :p
21:06.12paultagrigelk: I love all the GSoC students
21:06.18paultagso much amazing work and so many great ideas
21:06.40paultagit's just the small amount that don't do things until just before it's due :)
21:07.54rigelkoh. just those ones :)
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21:09.18paultagLucky for my sanity, this has been a very small amount of students selected to participate :)
21:09.35paultagmost are wonderful hackers
21:09.46stqismI like my students, it's just those special few who fail to read anything and try to email a proposal  that unnerve me :)
21:10.06paultagno one reads anything anymore :)
21:10.12paultagcanned responses are the best
21:10.13paultagcough
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21:10.43terriWhat responses have people been sending to http://pastebin.com/fi4eNBf3
21:11.04brlcadfinds "tell me what to do" students frustrating to interact with, educate
21:11.22terribrlcad: I made a flowchart for those.  it's helped quite a bit.
21:11.38gevaertsbrlcad: so tell me what to do about those :)
21:11.40stqismbrlcad: I had one who attempted to tell me something about my own project that was incorrect
21:12.12stqismterri: That's the real good one :P
21:12.28brlcadgevaerts: it involves a blender and a cooler
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21:13.00brlcadmargaritas! <ba-dum*tish*>
21:13.19gevaerts:)
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21:17.25CFS-MP3terri we got the exact same text (in a connection request no less)
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21:19.03ollyterri: link them to http://mostdesirable.org/
21:19.11ollyCFS-MP3: all orgs have, it appears
21:19.17terriCFS-MP3: yeah, there's a huge number of orgs that have gotten that.  So many that they formed http://mostdesirable.org/ ;)
21:19.27stqismWe ALL did :)
21:19.53terriif someone actually writes the "choose a project spinner" for MDO, we'll all have the easiest way ever to deal with "tell me what to do" queries. ;)
21:21.24carolsserves some more tea and coffee
21:21.42gevaertsgets a cup of most desirable tea
21:21.59terriActually, if someone writes that, I will find some really random swag to send them as a prize.
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21:22.40stqismterri: I'll throw in an oh so rare Tox sticker
21:23.39territhey can have my unopened dow chemical lip balm, a bunch of stickers, and a random selection of t-shirts to be determined based on their t-shirt size.
21:23.51CFS-MP3out of curiosity, do you guys have preferred countries to pick your students?
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21:24.01TCDaw, does it have to be JS?
21:24.20meflinI only takes students who live in a country on this planet
21:24.28terriI probably have some weirder swag around.  would have to look.
21:24.31stqismCFS-MP3: With us, we would generally like you to not be in some strange timezone where we'd never be able to communicate.
21:24.31gevaertsCFS-MP3: I suspect most people don't, and those that do won't admit it :)
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21:25.03CFS-MP3gevaerts I can relate to that :-)
21:25.10stqismCFS-MP3: As a general rule of thumb, our students must be alive to be considered :)
21:25.29TCDYou guys are disgusting with the level of discrimination I'm seeing.
21:25.39ollygevaerts: we'll take students for *ALL* parts of India
21:25.41gevaertsThere are barriers that are correlated with countries though. You have to be able to find a language you can use to talk to the student, and sometimes that's not easy
21:26.01TCDI think you should open your student applications to dead aliens.
21:26.16terriput it on the MDO list.  clearly the MDO would take dead aliens.
21:26.17stqismgevaerts: And in all honesty, not being able to communicate with students isn't a good thing.
21:26.18ollygoogle isn't allowed to do business with dead aliens
21:26.22ollyour hands are tied
21:26.31gevaertsTCD: we do, but unfortunately nearly no dead aliens attend accredited universitues
21:26.42CFS-MP3olly not even if they are enrolled in an acceptable university?
21:26.44stqismAre you sure?
21:27.03stqismI'm sure I could enroll an alien in a community college
21:27.09terriclearly the outreach initiatives to dead aliens need to be stepped up.
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21:27.49stqismI don't think Google prohibits students from other planets in the FAQ
21:28.19CFS-MP3doesn't say anything about dogs in obedience schools either
21:28.20scorche|shstqism: as long as the colleges are accredited!
21:28.53stqismscorche|sh: As CFS-MP3 mentioned, what if my dog attended an accredited obedience school?
21:28.57terriCFS-MP3: but yeah, we care about communicating.  So timezone doens't matter as long as you're willing to be awake when your mentor is awake, or communicate asynchronously by email.
21:29.16gevaertsstqism: does it follow post-secondary courses?
21:29.18TCDstqism: Does your dog have experience in programming languages?
21:29.23gevaertsHmmm
21:29.45terriis your dog trying to further its skill in Computer Science?
21:29.50stqismMaybe, and only if licking a keyboard counts.
21:29.51gevaerts"Post-secondary courses" means the courses that come after the starters and the main courses, so they're desserts, I think
21:30.11scorche|shstqism: i dont think those get any of these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher_education_accreditation
21:30.16stqismYeah, I think my dog likes deserts. Shame he can't eat em
21:30.29gevaertsstqism: he can't handle sand?
21:30.50stqismgevaerts: Something about chocolate and throwing up
21:31.04gevaertsstqism: not much chocolate in most deserts!
21:31.15stqismscorche|sh: Can I enroll him in a local community college?
21:31.37scorche|shi am the wrong person to ask!
21:31.39stqismgevaerts: We eat very different kinds of deserts
21:32.01stqismscorche|sh: Lets assume he got in. Can he apply?
21:32.16scorche|shstqism: i am not one to eat many types of desert
21:32.21scorche|shthough, i live in one
21:32.23stqismLets also assume he's the greatest K9 coder of his generation
21:34.02gevaertsstqism: I never ate any desert!
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21:34.43stqismYou folks should eat more deserts, it's like dessert without the calories
21:34.57gevaertsAh, finally :)
21:34.59scorche|shactually, there are times when haboobs come in and you cant really avoid eating desert - but then again, i tend not to enjoy it
21:35.14stqism:P I was dumb of a momend
21:35.18gevaertsscorche|sh: surely never a whole one? :)
21:35.19stqismmoment, rather
21:35.27terriyeah, windy season in albuquerque and we all eat desert like it or not.
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22:03.47funcodewhat if our college schedule does not meet up with the GSOC schedule? Is their any flexibility?
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22:04.16umcculloughhow far off?
22:04.19brlcadfuncode: only what you discuss with the mentoring org .. the dates of the program are fixed
22:04.45umcculloughsometimes a student will be doing finals for a week or two after gsoc starts, and it's usually not a big deal as long as they let the org know
22:05.05shinji_do mentors need to be associated with organisation for which one is applying for??
22:05.25umcculloughshinji_, are you a mentor?
22:05.35shinji_no i'm a student
22:05.42ollythe org will have mentors
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22:06.09ollyyou don't bring your own mentor, unless you're applying to the "ospo org", which is a special case
22:06.21umcculloughright, the org supplies the mentors
22:06.29DaSpiritWhat's the ospo org?
22:06.37umcculloughgoogle's internal org
22:06.44umcculloughopen source programs office
22:06.54umcculloughor whatever
22:06.58ollyit's in the FAQ
22:06.59DaSpiritI never knew that existed.
22:07.02DaSpiritI'm going to look it up.
22:07.12ollythey only take a few students each year
22:07.27ollyit's generally research projects, with the uni supervisor as mentor
22:07.33ollyat least AIUI
22:07.35DaSpiritOh.
22:07.52ollyso it's a harder route, not an easy one as some students seem to think
22:08.08ollyi bet they get some "interesting" proposals
22:08.40scorche|shthere is an entry in the FAQ about it  ;)
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22:59.43wiruzxHi everyone
22:59.54mataLebamhello wiruzx
23:00.38Guest86911Hello
23:01.39wiruzxI would like to ask: what if I would be accepted in some project, and I'll do all tasks before the summer?
23:02.22wiruzxor maybe not all, but some of them
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23:06.27terriwiruzx: if you finish early, you generally work with your mentor to find new stuff to do.
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