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| 06:26.06 | banas | !logs |
| 06:26.06 | gsocbot | banas: "logs" is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc/ |
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| 12:06.16 | MatthewWilkes | I like tax offices |
| 12:06.19 | MatthewWilkes | they're always so helpful |
| 12:06.37 | MatthewWilkes | Well, not German ones, but UK, US and Norwegian ones, sure. |
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| 13:53.46 | ankitkv | does anyone have an idea how long the debit card and the amount inside is valid? |
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| 13:55.47 | olly_ | ankitkv: carols advises removing the money promptly, though I think to avoid fraudulent withdrawals rather than it expiring |
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| 13:56.53 | ankitkv | yeah, I know. but I'm in a situation where the card may make things easy for me (to apply for universities for post-grad) |
| 13:57.17 | ankitkv | the visa cards in my country have mandatory visa verification that sometimes causes problems with US sites |
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| 13:57.49 | olly_ | i'd suggest you check with citibank |
| 13:58.32 | ankitkv | will do, thanks :) |
| 13:59.26 | hello_world | cards online transactions are valid only for US and canada |
| 13:59.43 | hello_world | I will miss gsoc so bad |
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| 14:00.13 | gevaerts | wonders how to fix hello_world's record getting stuck :) |
| 14:01.03 | hello_world | i am not stuck gevaerts : what made you think that |
| 14:01.17 | gevaerts | You keep repeating the same thing! |
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| 14:01.36 | utku | Sept. 27th is the final evaluation deadline but when we can start submitting them? |
| 14:01.43 | hello_world | It's on my heart everyday !! |
| 14:02.19 | hello_world | !timeline utku |
| 14:02.29 | hello_world | !timeline |
| 14:02.29 | gsocbot | hello_world: "timeline" is http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/events/google/gsoc2013 |
| 14:02.33 | utku | hello_world: I can't find that on timeline. |
| 14:02.59 | utku | hello_world: Actually I can. |
| 14:02.59 | gevaerts | Mentors, students and organization administrators can begin submitting final evaluations to Google |
| 14:03.02 | gevaerts | " |
| 14:03.16 | utku | My bad, I didn't read after "Firm 'pencils down' date." |
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| 14:03.56 | olly_ | hmm, we normally get more than 4 days for that don't we? |
| 14:04.07 | hello_world | GSoC documentation has been done in a way similar to cyclic graph.. |
| 14:04.14 | olly_ | luckily i'm not a cat herder this year |
| 14:04.39 | hello_world | or i say Non finite Automata |
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| 14:05.22 | hello_world | olly_: you meant you are not mentor this year !! |
| 14:05.37 | ankitkv | I've been documenting as I code :) |
| 14:05.52 | hello_world | that's best practice. |
| 14:05.53 | olly_ | i'm not an admin this year |
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| 14:06.10 | JordiGH | If I don't want to receive a tshirt, I don't need to update my contact info on Melange, do I? |
| 14:06.11 | olly_ | so i just have to fill in an evaluation, not chase everyone else to |
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| 14:06.34 | olly_ | JordiGH: they'll probably try to send one anyway |
| 14:07.08 | gevaerts | JordiGH: you have to set your address to a PO box :) |
| 14:07.36 | gevaerts | Or to an address in one of those selected countries |
| 14:07.37 | JordiGH | But what else does Google want my address for? |
| 14:07.39 | hello_world | JordiGH: what about certificate ? |
| 14:07.58 | olly_ | hello_world: JordiGH's not a student |
| 14:08.08 | hello_world | ooppsss |
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| 14:09.13 | hello_world | JordiGH: divert it to someone else..why miss google t-shirt |
| 14:09.33 | JordiGH | I don't want to be responsible for inflicting a Google shirt on anyone else. |
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| 14:10.49 | hello_world | +1 |
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| 17:18.45 | ankitkv | hi carols, till when is the debit card and the amount inside it valid? |
| 17:18.56 | carols | ankitkv: until the expiration date on the card. |
| 17:19.03 | ankitkv | alright :) |
| 17:19.56 | gevaerts | Oh, is that what "expiration date" means? ;) |
| 17:20.12 | carols | i think so, yes, gevaerts :-) |
| 17:20.20 | gevaerts | Good to know! :) |
| 17:20.24 | ankitkv | I detect sarcasm :p |
| 17:20.27 | carols | happy to help |
| 17:20.34 | dfighter | I thought it was edible until then |
| 17:20.39 | dfighter | damn |
| 17:20.53 | dfighter | are you saying I shouldn't have eaten the card? |
| 17:20.55 | dfighter | ?! |
| 17:22.12 | gevaerts | dfighter: depends. Did you enter a wrong PIN three times before eating it? |
| 17:22.29 | dfighter | nah, I just felt like having a snack |
| 17:22.44 | gevaerts | In that case, no, you shouldn't have :) |
| 17:22.56 | scorche|sh | dfighter: you can use the card for anything you want...i do know that some use them for food, though in a bit more efficient manner |
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| 17:23.27 | dfighter | scorche|sh, do they melt it and then drink? |
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| 17:24.46 | scorche|sh | not really melt it as such - it goes through a very technical process where it becomes a colloidal liquid |
| 17:25.06 | dfighter | I see |
| 17:25.27 | dfighter | well too bad, it's only like my 10th card, I guess I still have a lot to learn :( |
| 17:25.30 | scorche|sh | or...you could...you know...buy food with it... |
| 17:25.38 | scorche|sh | ;) |
| 17:26.53 | dfighter | I'll try with my next card! thanks scorche|sh! :) |
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| 19:19.24 | JordiGH | How much prodding of a student, "hey, are you doing work?" should be expected? |
| 19:20.06 | meflin | until code is produced or they die |
| 19:20.23 | JordiGH | :-) |
| 19:20.33 | scorche|sh | JordiGH: well, all students are beautiful and unique snowflakes - some need more urging than others ;) |
| 19:20.48 | meflin | or more TWAP's upside the head |
| 19:21.11 | meflin | my view is jump on it early and often |
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| 19:23.04 | meflin | he wo |
| 19:23.12 | carols | hi meflin |
| 19:23.19 | JordiGH | We're not getting as good work out of our students this year. |
| 19:23.35 | JordiGH | I don't know if we spread ourselves too thin or if we lowered our standards in order to accept more students. |
| 19:24.12 | meflin | students are tricky things |
| 19:24.17 | meflin | so are mentors |
| 19:24.49 | JordiGH | Yeah, I don't know, the consensus is that we're not doing well. |
| 19:25.48 | meflin | hard to say without being there .. but perhaps start looking at what your doing and what isn't working? |
| 19:28.29 | JordiGH | One of my students has spent a lot of time perfecting this one feature. |
| 19:28.41 | JordiGH | It was supposed to just be part of a bigger whole, but turned out to be a huge and complicated problem. |
| 19:29.03 | JordiGH | So he's working, but his focus seems to have narrowed. |
| 19:29.13 | thiago | JordiGH: my rule of thumb is that you should get to see some progress every week |
| 19:29.30 | thiago | either by seeing the commits, or in a blog, or a couple of tweets |
| 19:29.32 | JordiGH | thiago: What if the progress is about a very specialised part? |
| 19:29.48 | thiago | that they need the whole week to think about it? |
| 19:30.06 | thiago | without writing any code as proof-of-concepts? Without asking other people in MLs about info? |
| 19:30.25 | thiago | I'd expect at *least* a PoC by the end of the week |
| 19:30.29 | thiago | a strawman implementation |
| 19:31.50 | thiago | or, if no work was accomplished, a brief email explaining why (sorry, busy with exams and the power went out) |
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| 19:32.49 | JordiGH | thiago: Oh, no no, he's writing lots of code. |
| 19:33.04 | JordiGH | Octave may now have the best image-reading abilities of any software out there thanks to this guy. :P |
| 19:33.19 | JordiGH | But it was supposed to be a small part. |
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| 19:33.57 | gevaerts | JordiGH: then it's up to the mentor and the student to agree if that's OK or not |
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| 19:34.20 | JordiGH | Well... I think it's ok. I can't make him stop working on this problem despite numerous implorations. |
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| 19:34.57 | thiago | is he accomplishing things according to the plan? |
| 19:35.28 | JordiGH | Well, according to a very small part of the plan. |
| 19:35.44 | thiago | is he doing stuff beyond the scope of the plan? |
| 19:36.04 | JordiGH | He managed to magnify the focus of a small part of the plan to the point where it's consumed almost all of his time. |
| 19:36.09 | thiago | if he's still working within the scope of the plan, it might be because it was just more complex than projected |
| 19:36.27 | JordiGH | It could be. Or could be that perfectionism is a curse. |
| 19:36.32 | thiago | yes |
| 19:36.36 | thiago | perfect is the enemy of good |
| 19:37.03 | thiago | talk to them, explain that, explain that there's only a month left and a lot to accomplish |
| 19:37.15 | thiago | as rewarding as this part may have been, you have to work on the non-fun parts too |
| 19:37.38 | JordiGH | I've tried, heh. Each time it's "but I'm allllmost there". |
| 19:37.56 | thiago | JordiGH: tell him "you said that two weeks ago". Time's up. |
| 19:38.09 | thiago | point him to the Duke Nukem case |
| 19:38.18 | thiago | it was always "two more weeks until the release" |
| 19:38.19 | thiago | for years |
| 19:38.41 | gevaerts | thiago: wrong example |
| 19:38.45 | gevaerts | The *did* release in the end |
| 19:38.51 | thiago | gevaerts: yeah, years late |
| 19:38.53 | JordiGH | And it was shit. |
| 19:39.03 | JordiGH | The thing is, this guy actually does make the code better each time. |
| 19:39.10 | thiago | gevaerts: I meant as an example of engineers having no clue about how much work is left. |
| 19:39.33 | JordiGH | He has managed to find all the edge cases and nooks and crannies of the problem and is determined to squash them all. |
| 19:40.01 | thiago | JordiGH: it's plain and simple: tell the student that he may get bad marks for spending too much time perfecting stuff instead of getting the other parts done according to the project. |
| 19:40.15 | JordiGH | Well, there are no marks, only pass or fail. |
| 19:40.20 | scorche|sh | JordiGH: it sounds like it is up to you whether this drive is acceptable or if you need to put some pressure on him to move to other portions of the project |
| 19:40.24 | thiago | subjective, in the mentor's mind |
| 19:40.32 | thiago | too many bad marks = fail |
| 19:40.39 | JordiGH | I feel like I can't fail someone who is working hard producing good code. |
| 19:40.53 | scorche|sh | JordiGH: the project can change drastically - as long as the mentor and student both agree |
| 19:40.54 | gevaerts | I think it's partly a question of whether this part was underestimated before (by everyone), or whether he has really expanded the scope |
| 19:41.00 | thiago | JordiGH: what scorche|sh said. What's more important: this code or accomplishing the full project? |
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| 19:42.26 | thiago | in OSS, we may accept people working in their corners and producing amazingly good, for a very small portion of the software |
| 19:42.37 | thiago | but TBH, I prefer that people get a broader overview of the project |
| 19:42.46 | thiago | it's healthier for the person and it's healthier for the project |
| 19:43.13 | thiago | decreases the bus factor |
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| 19:43.57 | JordiGH | Oh, his code is beautifully commented. I will have no trouble maintaining this modulo a bus. |
| 19:45.05 | thiago | but that means you have less time for other things |
| 19:45.40 | thiago | it's also a loss of opportunity: if someone else is hit by a bus, the student can't step in |
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| 19:56.54 | meflin | sorry for the fade out emergency work call |
| 19:58.50 | meflin | based on lightly skimming JordiGH do you have a long term contributor? |
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| 20:08.02 | JordiGH | meflin: He was one before he started. |
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| 22:04.51 | parx | Did we skip a "Who is New in Google Summer of Code - Part 10?" http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2013/08/who-is-new-in-google-summer-of-code_30.html |
| 22:06.08 | parx | I don't think I saw my org featured despite our submission. |
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