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| 01:46.13 | *** topic/#gsoc is Google Summer of Code 2010 is On! - Coding has started! http://bit.ly/96UQZe - File Feature Requests & Bugs at http://bit.ly/a5tD87 - Read the FAQs: http://bit.ly/9q41Ey - Consider Hosting a GSoC Info Session: http://bit.ly/amIwdd |
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| 04:16.48 | kblin | morning folks |
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| 06:30.15 | ihalip | coding has started? |
| 06:30.35 | Catfish_Man | it's almost finished... |
| 06:30.56 | ihalip | that's what the topic sais :P |
| 06:31.04 | Catfish_Man | oh, heh |
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| 06:58.09 | dholbach | good morning |
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| 08:19.23 | _Samo | hi there |
| 08:19.42 | _Samo | our organisation have a problem with an student |
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| 08:20.08 | _Samo | his project is almost finished, but he has vanished |
| 08:20.47 | _Samo | does not attend scheduled meetings and does not answer to emails during the last week |
| 08:20.54 | MatthewWilkes | _Samo: Follow your plan for a disappearing student, that might be phoning him or it might be failing him |
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| 08:22.18 | _Samo | his project is almost finished, and the feedback so far was good, but all of suddenly he has dissapeared |
| 08:22.59 | _Samo | we don't have means to contact him apart from his email |
| 08:23.30 | _Samo | at least with the info available to us, the mentoring org |
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| 08:30.20 | timotei | _Samo: there must have been an telefone number in the proposal afair |
| 08:31.00 | _Samo | lets see |
| 08:33.22 | _Samo | timotei: no we don't have it, we did not requested it either |
| 08:33.59 | timotei | _Samo: well, you could ask google for providing it. me as a student I remember I had to fill it in |
| 08:34.06 | timotei | _Samo: in my melange account |
| 08:34.17 | _Samo | I will contact admins |
| 08:34.24 | _Samo | thanks for the info |
| 08:34.33 | timotei | _Samo: yw |
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| 09:00.40 | Nightrose | yea the phone number doesn't get shared but you can ask carol to call him |
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| 09:15.02 | kblin | _Samo: that's actually why I recommend asking for the phone number in the application template. been in your place before |
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| 10:20.49 | qrng | Nightrose: Carol is a she. |
| 10:21.54 | vegard | I think the "him" refers to the student ;-) |
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| 10:22.22 | qrng | Ah, looked up for the whole conversation. Sorry for my premature comment. |
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| 10:27.58 | kblin | hm, great, now my GF's grandmothers will be all concerned about my SF trip |
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| 11:08.50 | kblin | haha, sweet |
| 11:10.16 | kblin | a lobby group of the german music and movie industry sent takedown notices to a video platform, and it seems like they got a couple of legit videos as well |
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| 11:11.00 | kblin | now the copyright owners of those viedos are sending C&Ds to the lobby organization |
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| 11:11.25 | drt24 | :-) |
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| 12:19.01 | Nightrose | qrng: i know - i met her ;-) |
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| 14:19.48 | josip | hello, when can we start filling in the final evaluations? |
| 14:20.11 | timotei | josip: http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/timeline |
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| 14:29.01 | kblin | !next |
| 14:29.01 | socinfo | "next" is Suggested pencils down date is on August 9th. Also see !timeline for more info. |
| 14:29.07 | kblin | hmm |
| 14:29.59 | kblin | !forget next |
| 14:30.00 | socinfo | The operation succeeded. |
| 14:30.43 | kblin | !learn next as August 16th: Firm 'pencils down' date. Mentors, students and organization administrators can begin submitting final evaluations to Google. Also see !timeline for mor info. |
| 14:30.47 | socinfo | The operation succeeded. |
| 14:30.58 | kblin | also !when |
| 14:31.08 | kblin | !when |
| 14:31.09 | socinfo | "when" is later |
| 14:31.12 | kblin | :) |
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| 14:44.47 | dberkholz | _Samo: lesson learned, next time require additional contact info in your app template =) |
| 14:46.11 | _Samo | yep |
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| 16:21.44 | _Samo | carols: ping |
| 16:21.51 | carols | _Samo: pong |
| 16:22.23 | _Samo | hi Carols |
| 16:22.25 | carols | hi |
| 16:22.44 | _Samo | we have lost all traces of a student, in the last week |
| 16:23.18 | smtms | panic! |
| 16:23.21 | carols | _Samo: do you want to continue discussing this in a logged irc channel? |
| 16:23.21 | _Samo | carols: he has not attended scheduled meetings and he has not answered any email we have sent his way |
| 16:23.41 | _Samo | humm... |
| 16:23.49 | _Samo | I don't know |
| 16:23.56 | carols | why dont you email me? |
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| 16:24.32 | _Samo | at the moment our only question is if you could make a phone call to this guy |
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| 16:24.53 | carols | _Samo: sure, i can do that |
| 16:25.03 | _Samo | It is a surprise because the guy was doing well and his project is almost finished |
| 16:25.15 | Catfish_Man | personal emergency perhaps :/ |
| 16:25.17 | Catfish_Man | we had that happen once |
| 16:26.07 | _Samo | Carols: Ok, I will send you the details through an email |
| 16:26.12 | carols | ok |
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| 16:27.14 | topfs2 | oh carols since your here. I've noticed that final payment will begin at 20th-ish on timeline. Is this still likely? just making traviling plans and would be nice to know somewhat when they will show up :) |
| 16:27.22 | topfs2 | Are there any known delays atm and such? |
| 16:27.35 | topfs2 | (if you don't know or don't want to say disregard me :) ) |
| 16:27.52 | carols | topfs2: no, no known delays. i let everyone know about delays when I hear about them, so you'll be the second to know |
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| 16:28.05 | topfs2 | nice, thx! |
| 16:28.11 | carols | yw |
| 16:28.30 | topfs2 | my first gsoc but must say it feels like a well oiled machinery :) |
| 16:28.39 | carols | topfs2: my first gsoc too :-) |
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| 16:30.10 | topfs2 | hehe carols seems like your a natural at it then ;) |
| 16:30.18 | carols | topfs2: thanks very much :-) |
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| 16:32.48 | kblin | carols: evening :) |
| 16:33.07 | carols | evening kblin |
| 16:33.14 | carols | serves tea, coffee and cookies |
| 16:33.19 | carols | seems to be a party today :-) |
| 16:33.23 | kblin | yay, tea |
| 16:34.33 | carols | sips tea and continues through email |
| 16:36.29 | MatthewWilkes | is counting down the minutes until he can go to the steakhouse |
| 16:36.39 | MatthewWilkes | segfaults and things are fixed, nothing blocking tasty beef |
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| 16:45.58 | _Samo | Carols, email sent |
| 16:46.04 | carols | great, thanks |
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| 16:52.39 | kblin | MatthewWilkes: btw, it seems like that P != NP paper violates a few of the "10 signs" :) |
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| 17:01.23 | Nightrose | kblin: 10 signs? |
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| 17:04.56 | kblin | "Ten Signs a Claimed Mathematical Breakthrough is Wrong" http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=304 |
| 17:05.04 | kblin | Nightrose: ^^^ |
| 17:05.18 | kblin | fun read |
| 17:05.29 | Nightrose | thx |
| 17:06.23 | MatthewWilkes | kblin: I couldn't be arsed to read any more after it started sounding like people showing off. If you prove P!=NP just write a short, concise paper and let that speak for itself |
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| 17:08.07 | kblin | that sounds like sign 6 or 8 :) |
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| 18:06.34 | neXyon | carols: how do the organisations get the 500 $? |
| 18:06.50 | carols | neXyon: in a PO |
| 18:07.18 | neXyon | carols: for non-english ppl that means? :) |
| 18:07.32 | Jeff_S | neXyon: the orgs send an invoice to google for payment |
| 18:07.41 | neXyon | ah, I see |
| 18:07.56 | carols | neXyon: google issues the organization a purchase order. the org invoices google. google sends payment to the org/ |
| 18:09.34 | neXyon | carols: btw, I have to tell you that you're doing an awesome work! thanks for that! |
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| 18:09.56 | carols | neXyon: thanks very much :-) |
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| 18:14.26 | neXyon | carols: the only thing I don't like that much is how students get the money, but I'm sure that's not your fault; I can think that it's very difficult to find some way to pay students in a lot of different countries around the world and satisfy US tax and other laws |
| 18:14.54 | carols | neXyon: yep. please do let me know if you have a better solution, i'm all ears :-) |
| 18:15.09 | valeuf | neXyon: what's the problem with this way? |
| 18:16.04 | valeuf | neXyon: neXyon personally I feel quite secure to have a credit card and much easier than trasnfer! |
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| 18:17.14 | smtms | you don't have a credit card |
| 18:17.41 | valeuf | smtms: sorry, French idiom, a debit card ^^ |
| 18:17.49 | neXyon | valeuf: the currency exchange and atm fees and for me the fact that ppl in my country are much more used to cash than credit cards (in most cases you can't pay with credit cards at all); so in the end I'd prefer transfer :) |
| 18:18.04 | gevaerts | valeuf: you mean a blue card? :) |
| 18:18.33 | schumaml | neXyon: what country is this? |
| 18:18.36 | neXyon | smtms: it mostly behaves like one (for the sellers), that's reason enough to call it credit card, no? |
| 18:18.47 | gevaerts | neXyon: there is *no* easy to use method to get money to people all over the world that's actually cheap |
| 18:19.01 | neXyon | gevaerts: I guessed so |
| 18:19.12 | valeuf | neXyon: some people pointed out some transfer method using a forex broker |
| 18:19.31 | valeuf | which seems a good alternative if ATM fees are expansive in your country |
| 18:19.35 | schumaml | waits for someone to suggest paypal :) |
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| 18:19.49 | neXyon | nah not paypal xD nonono :) |
| 18:20.10 | gevaerts | There probably are ways to get money cheaply to (almost) anywhere, but I suspect those would need significant time per country, or even per person, and are therefore not usable in this case |
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| 18:20.44 | neXyon | valeuf: I personally will transfer the money to an US account of a friend and he will transfer to me |
| 18:21.28 | neXyon | but not everyone has friends in the US, so I'm speaking generally, not really about myself in the end |
| 18:21.34 | valeuf | neXyon: :) |
| 18:22.26 | valeuf | neXyon: it seems that some people get trouble with the credit card, but I am not sure that generally speaking people are unhappy with this system... hard to say! |
| 18:22.58 | gevaerts | bets that changing to a different system will not reduce the number of people unhappy with it |
| 18:23.34 | schumaml | google could venture into banking |
| 18:23.45 | smtms | gevaerts, it's easy: you offer two payment methods, so it's always the student's fault if he isn't happy with the method he chose |
| 18:23.47 | neXyon | valeuf: probably best would be to let ppl choose between the card and transfer with IBAN/BIC, but I don't know how much effort that is, how much there can be automated |
| 18:23.52 | neXyon | schumaml: hehe :) |
| 18:24.04 | schumaml | gbanks popping up everywhere |
| 18:24.11 | gevaerts | smtms: what if neither of them are suitable? |
| 18:24.12 | neXyon | smtms: yeah, exactly |
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| 18:24.26 | neXyon | but I'm sure carols kann tell us the problems with that?! |
| 18:24.32 | smtms | gevaerts, you send the kill squad |
| 18:24.40 | gevaerts | schumaml: worldwide? In *all* countries with gsoc people? Good luck! |
| 18:24.47 | bawr | schumaml: Google banks? NWO theorists and plain old paranoiacs would all die of heart attacks. |
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| 18:25.41 | schumaml | bawr: instant international money transfer -> nobody would listen to NWO theorists |
| 18:25.51 | carols | neXyon: in order to do a payment transfer to a bank account I have to issue an individual purchase order to each student who requests it, have them invoice us (which takes 30 days) and then they finally receive payment after that. not to mention i'd have to keep track of each of the 1,000 students' preference on how they want to be paid and maintain two separate systems |
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| 18:26.30 | smtms | carols, is that how the bureaucracy at Google works? |
| 18:26.33 | bawr | schumaml: Does not follow. Then again, it's not like people are listening now. |
| 18:26.49 | gevaerts | points out that gsoc is something that's run by *one* person, within the rules of a large organisation. That *seriously* limits what one can reasonably ask for |
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| 18:28.10 | carols | smtms: i guess i dont define that as bureaucracy. you just looking to troll? |
| 18:29.05 | smtms | of course not |
| 18:29.20 | carols | great |
| 18:29.25 | gevaerts | carols: I'm actually surprised you're able to bypass these invoice-per-person rules with the debit cards |
| 18:29.57 | carols | gevaerts: yes, its been a lot of trial and error we've gone through. next year we'll improve over this year, of course. every year we try new stuff. |
| 18:30.08 | neXyon | carols: well, students could be given the choice once and accoring to valeuf probably most would choose the card and you have to do the invoice with the organisations too, no? :) I know it's a bit unfair to annoy you with that |
| 18:30.13 | plasmafury | wonders if carols will go on a stressbusting vacation after end of gsoc |
| 18:30.21 | gevaerts | I'd hope so. You have to keep the job interesting :) |
| 18:30.56 | carols | neXyon: there are 150 organizations. so yes, i have to make 150 individual POs and I'm not looking forward to it. but there are 1,026 students. that is just unmanageable for me. |
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| 18:31.10 | carols | plasmafury: i wish! that would be wonderful :-) |
| 18:31.24 | plasmafury | carols: you aren't? :/ |
| 18:31.24 | neXyon | carols: I see :) |
| 18:31.36 | carols | plasmafury: dont have any plans to |
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| 18:31.55 | plasmafury | ah, hardworking carols |
| 18:31.57 | plasmafury | gets back to code |
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| 18:33.22 | bawr | plasmafury: Heh, good idea. I'm off to do battle with git's stash and format my commits into something reasonably for cherry-picking. |
| 18:33.49 | plasmafury | bawr: writing code is *always* a good idea. Unless you have a date within the hour and need to shower |
| 18:34.21 | neXyon | carols: the last thing I wonder is if there's no bank that provides such debit cards with better currency exchange fees or the possibility to do international transfers not only US ones; even without that requirements I wonder if it's not better to change the bank, I read many complaints about citi in the ML (about service, web page, etc.) |
| 18:35.08 | bawr | plasmafury: I have long hair and a pathological hate for hair dryers, so an hour is too long... but I get the idea. :) |
| 18:35.22 | bawr | *too short |
| 18:35.39 | gevaerts | bawr: but do you have lots of dates? |
| 18:35.40 | carols | neXyon: its all stuff im working on improving for next year. i picked up the program when it had already been started this year so i couldn't make any changes to the way payments were done this year. we'll try to fix it next year |
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| 18:35.51 | plasmafury | bawr: i was counting in travel time too, y'know |
| 18:35.59 | plasmafury | bawr: i live on the suburbs, and most people i know don't :( |
| 18:36.02 | plasmafury | s/on/in/ |
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| 18:36.28 | bawr | gevaerts: I'm going to go with no. Quality dates, though. :3 |
| 18:36.39 | smtms | carols, you mean lh chose citi? |
| 18:36.58 | neXyon | carols: awesome, that completely satisfies me, I'm sure you'll give your best and I again have to thank you a lot! |
| 18:37.23 | carols | smtms: i mean lh already had the balls rolling on doing payment cards with citi for this year before i got there. which is why we had the new plastics for the cards this year. |
| 18:37.40 | thebolt | Evening everyone |
| 18:37.57 | bawr | plasmafury: Eh, an hour isn't long. Well, I'm used to walking everywhere, so my scale is admittedly off. :) |
| 18:38.47 | plasmafury | bawr: it takes me an hour form home to anywhere good, so :( |
| 18:40.06 | bawr | plasmafury: No buses? :( (Europe here, so I get from the suburbs to city centre in half an hour tops.) |
| 18:40.15 | plasmafury | bawr: yes buses, but lots of distance |
| 18:40.20 | plasmafury | bawr: buses are all I have |
| 18:40.37 | plasmafury | bawr: and I have to changeover - my locality -> terminus then terminus to wherever |
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| 18:42.03 | bawr | plasmafury: Ouch, I feel for you. I used to have a shitty setup like that a year ago at my university city. |
| 18:42.26 | plasmafury | bawr: :( |
| 18:42.41 | plasmafury | bawr: i did buy a motorbike with my gsoc money, so that should help things up |
| 18:42.55 | plasmafury | bawr: besides, it's easier to get girls out on a bike than on a bus :P |
| 18:43.26 | bawr | I wouldn't know. I really wouldn't trust myself with anything travelling more than 20MPH. :) |
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| 18:43.55 | plasmafury | bawr: me neither, it now implies i should sleep more than 4 hours a day :( |
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| 18:46.32 | bawr | Though you might have a good idea with the bike. If I crash a bike, I'm less likely to mutilate anyone except myself than with a car. Still, until it's absolutely necessary, I'd rather avoid this stuff altogether. :) |
| 18:46.56 | PlaneMadFanboy | bawr: you haven't seen chennai roads much :P |
| 18:47.22 | plasmafury | bawr: you can do 40kmph on some stretches |
| 18:47.31 | plasmafury | bawr: you'll have to move out of citi proper to do anything over 50-60 |
| 18:48.07 | bawr | plasmafury: Hey, I never said my problems with transportations had rational reasons. :) |
| 18:48.13 | plasmafury | ah! |
| 18:48.16 | plasmafury | irrationalreasons++ |
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| 18:50.28 | bawr | Well, anyway, git fight time. OH GOD THE DEADLINE IS LOOMING ON THE HORIZON |
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| 18:52.02 | gevaerts | bawr: remember to use a hard pencil! |
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| 18:56.14 | kblin | evening thebolt |
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| 19:03.35 | carols | gevaerts: #2 pencils only :-) |
| 19:04.34 | gevaerts | At least! :) |
| 19:04.49 | bawr | Not helping. ;( |
| 19:05.07 | kblin | neXyon: reading back on the comments on payment systems... so far people have complained about all of them |
| 19:05.58 | kblin | I'm pretty sure you can find other banks to provide the debit cards, and that'll mostly mean you've got new problems |
| 19:06.29 | kblin | of course using the same payment system more than once already is some kind of break of gsoc tradition |
| 19:06.57 | carols | kblin: but we had new kinds of cards this year, its different, right? ;-) |
| 19:07.08 | kblin | ah, fair enough :) |
| 19:08.25 | kblin | in my career as gsoc student I've personally had us cheques, local bank cheques and western union transfers |
| 19:08.43 | kblin | all of them were problematic for someone on the mailing list |
| 19:09.14 | carols | kblin: surely you dont mean we're never going to find a solution that everyone's happy with? |
| 19:09.33 | gevaerts | No hand delivered gold bullion? |
| 19:09.45 | kblin | carols: I'm sure that within the next 100 gsocs or so you'll converge on an optimal solution |
| 19:10.01 | carols | gevaerts: well, i was considering that for next year, but the armored trucks were the issue. |
| 19:10.13 | gevaerts | kblin: Unfortunately the financial industry will change slightly faster than that |
| 19:10.37 | carols | kblin: yes, indeed. at some point over the next 100 programs we're bound to find a solution that works for some of the people some of the time |
| 19:10.52 | gevaerts | carols: I'm sure people would complain about it being too shiny anyway |
| 19:10.59 | kblin | gevaerts: the us cheques had a wells&fargo stagecoach on them, close enough? |
| 19:11.05 | thebolt | maybe just get the people come and line up outside buidling hm.. 43 is it? and then give them cache ;) |
| 19:11.32 | kblin | thebolt: once they invent beaming, I guess |
| 19:11.46 | kblin | but then it's probably a US source of income |
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| 19:12.14 | carols | thebolt: then we have to individually fly them all to mountain view :-) |
| 19:12.14 | kblin | I doubt banking costs currently are at 30% |
| 19:12.30 | carols | and then everyone will complain they didnt want USD |
| 19:13.01 | kblin | and that they lose money when entering the US |
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| 19:13.13 | kblin | because you now need to pay $14 to enter |
| 19:13.24 | gevaerts | Do you have to pay to leave? |
| 19:13.24 | thebolt | carols: well, but then they would see gplex nad MV and be happy :P |
| 19:13.57 | carols | thebolt: then the people who have already been here to visit will complain they didn't get a better pony |
| 19:13.59 | schumaml | kblin: do I at least get disney dollars for that? |
| 19:14.02 | carols | wanted a different color, im sure |
| 19:14.13 | thebolt | gevaerts: nah, it is for ESTA |
| 19:14.20 | thebolt | carols: ;) |
| 19:14.25 | kblin | thebolt: 4 of them, yes |
| 19:14.31 | carols | :-) |
| 19:14.38 | kblin | thebolt: 10 is to pay for "come visit the US ads" |
| 19:14.46 | thebolt | kblin: hehe |
| 19:15.04 | kblin | thebolt: it's an attempt at a gouvernment-run snowball system |
| 19:15.21 | kblin | waves at raptor |
| 19:15.50 | thebolt | kblin: hehe.. well, good then i am not going to US anytime soon.. and besides, i got ESTA clearance last october and hm, it should be valid for 2 or 3 years |
| 19:16.32 | gevaerts | I suspect that the main problem with the payment system is that most students haven't seen the real world properly yet, so they assume a place where everything is free and perfect |
| 19:16.41 | thebolt | otoh, a resident visa for taiwan is a couple of hundred euro (150 or 200).. |
| 19:16.44 | thebolt | gevaerts: hehe true :) |
| 19:17.28 | kblin | thebolt: same here... but my passport is running out |
| 19:17.35 | kblin | so I need to get a new one :) |
| 19:17.38 | thebolt | kblin: ah, too bad |
| 19:17.49 | thebolt | otoh, if you can afford going to US you can afford the extra $14 ;) |
| 19:18.06 | gevaerts | thebolt: depends on where you come from |
| 19:18.07 | kblin | I'm just pissed, that's all |
| 19:18.19 | gevaerts | I suspect that people from just across the border might disagree |
| 19:18.29 | gevaerts | But then possibly the rules might be different for them |
| 19:18.53 | schumaml | but that's just canadians or mexicans, right? :) |
| 19:18.55 | kblin | we should make US citizens pay to enter the EU, as well. we'll be nice and just charge a EUR 7.5 "no fingerprinting" charge |
| 19:19.25 | thebolt | gevaerts: ESTA is just for VWP-people.. and neither mexico nor canada goes under those rules iirc |
| 19:20.14 | baer | kblin: haha nice idea |
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| 19:20.59 | baer | kblin: and we should introduce some sort of tourist sales tax |
| 19:21.02 | kblin | I also recently learned that you can't fly via the UK anymore, because while you can refuse to be shoved through a backscatter X-ray scanner, that refusal means you can't fly |
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| 19:25.55 | baer | kblin: wtf? you can't opt in for the full-body search? |
| 19:26.26 | drt24 | apologies on behalf of his governments idiotic security services |
| 19:26.27 | kblin | nope |
| 19:26.44 | kblin | at least not from what I've understood |
| 19:26.50 | baer | security in paris charles-de-gaulles allowed me to board a plane to sfo with scissors and half a liter of water in my bag |
| 19:26.58 | summatusmentis | dude, and I thought the US was bad |
| 19:27.32 | kblin | it's fun they pretend to be surprised hardly anybody opted out so far |
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| 19:28.03 | kblin | it's like being surprised that no-one opts out of walking through the metal detector |
| 19:29.35 | plasmafury | awww, cold chicken :( |
| 19:31.47 | baer | most people probably don't know what it is and that they can refuse to be scanned |
| 19:32.58 | kblin | they can't really, if they want to fly |
| 19:33.06 | kblin | it's lord vetinari style logic |
| 19:33.22 | kblin | you always have a choice, of course |
| 19:33.27 | thebolt | another case of the (faulty) "well, why refuse being watched if you have nothing to hide" 'logic' |
| 19:33.40 | kblin | yeah |
| 19:33.56 | baer | i guess they'll declare the scanner at hamburg airport to be a great success in a few months |
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