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| 00:04.17 | danderson | _Samo: I'd rank down, not mark as spam. |
| 00:04.25 | danderson | It's relevant to your org, it's just terrible. |
| 00:04.47 | danderson | (and that way, the proposal will also figure into this magic "org popularity" count that we're apparently doing) |
| 00:06.37 | _Samo | ok danderson |
| 00:06.48 | _Samo | i will do that |
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| 00:20.12 | CyberTooth | !timeline |
| 00:20.12 | socinfo | "timeline" is (#1) http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs#timeline, or (#2) for the visually oriented: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_mRuBILD0TjI/S6tGHR4mM3I/AAAAAAAACbw/tftJozZHs-0/s1600/gsoc10timeline.JPG |
| 00:26.15 | BarryCarlyon | Oooooh a jpg. |
| 00:26.30 | wtachi | :P |
| 00:26.46 | ArthurLiu | should definitely be svg |
| 00:27.00 | wtachi | should use content negotiation |
| 00:27.08 | BarryCarlyon | Gooa put that on my blog. Not that it is working again. |
| 00:29.29 | danderson | ArthurLiu: god mode enabled. |
| 00:29.35 | danderson | ArthurLiu: /cycle ? |
| 00:29.43 | *** mode/#gsoc [+o ArthurLiu] by ChanServ |
| 00:29.51 | danderson | or not. |
| 00:29.51 | ArthurLiu | I can haz +o |
| 00:31.45 | BarryCarlyon | Rofl. |
| 00:32.30 | mmadia | would http://tinyurl.com/gsoc2010-accepted-students be useful for !countdown ? |
| 00:32.45 | ArthurLiu | I mandate that every organization decide student/project pairs ranking using the Schulze voting method with Schwartz Sequential Dropping |
| 00:34.37 | ArthurLiu | Debian is going to try a new student/project/mentor 3D matrix based method. It's going to be fun. |
| 00:35.59 | Catfish_Man | I suggest printing out all the proposals and nailing them to a wall. Then get really drunk and fire wildly with a shotgun until you hit a structural beam |
| 00:36.09 | Catfish_Man | once you're out of the hospital, look for the most intact proposals |
| 00:36.12 | Catfish_Man | and choose those |
| 00:37.26 | ArthurLiu | is the alcohol DFSG-compliant? |
| 00:37.34 | BarryCarlyon | I like that plan Catfish_Man, tho its not very environmentally friendly..... |
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| 00:37.47 | jcreigh | ArthurLiu: mostly, but some of it will have to be rebranded. :) |
| 00:38.19 | Catfish_Man | BarryCarlyon: use absinthe for the alcohol, it's green |
| 00:38.53 | BarryCarlyon | Or to build on Catfish_Man's suggestion, get all the applicants in a room and shoot wildly for 5 mins. Who ever is left is in. |
| 00:39.03 | BarryCarlyon | Catfish_Man: you trying to get me drunk? |
| 00:39.13 | Catfish_Man | not you in particular, no |
| 00:39.25 | BarryCarlyon | o.0 |
| 00:39.41 | ArthurLiu | we have http://www.flickr.com/photos/aigarius/3754456465/ |
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| 00:40.54 | BarryCarlyon | Nice. |
| 00:41.02 | cao | ArthurLiu: age and vineyard? ;) |
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| 00:42.24 | ArthurLiu | Tempranillo from Extremadura, Spain, 2009 |
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| 00:42.51 | ArthurLiu | specially made for DebConf9 http://www.debian.org/News/2009/20090722 |
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| 00:57.24 | aoszkar | !next |
| 00:57.24 | socinfo | "next" is Student applications are closed. Be ready to respond to comments on and about your proposal. Accepted student proposals will be announced at http://socghop.appspot.com on April 26: 19:00 UTC. |
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| 01:19.41 | adimania | !stats |
| 01:19.41 | socinfo | "stats" is http://www.lfowles.org/irc/gsoc/stats.htm |
| 01:20.10 | skbohra_ | now peace for few days |
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| 01:25.15 | adimania | any idea about how many students applied and how many applications were received? |
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| 01:29.36 | skbohra_ | adimania: it may take couple of weeks or more to get that |
| 01:29.53 | adimania | okay |
| 01:30.11 | adimania | what was the count last year? |
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| 01:34.05 | skbohra_ | adimania: dont remember, if you google you may find |
| 01:34.15 | adimania | cool :) |
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| 01:53.24 | Sannya | hi |
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| 01:53.51 | Sannya | is there anyway to know how many ppl are applying to the same project as myself? |
| 01:53.53 | Sannya | :D |
| 01:54.02 | Catfish_Man | other than asking them, no |
| 01:54.19 | Sannya | oh |
| 01:54.21 | Sannya | thank you :) |
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| 02:34.54 | ankitg|afk | ... a silence fell that could be heard a thousand miles off ... |
| 02:35.07 | kimelto | :) |
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| 02:37.05 | Gangadhar | :-) |
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| 02:41.08 | felipevieira | !next |
| 02:41.08 | socinfo | "next" is Student applications are closed. Be ready to respond to comments on and about your proposal. Accepted student proposals will be announced at http://socghop.appspot.com on April 26: 19:00 UTC. |
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| 03:31.01 | eilime | Hi. Hoping someone can help: I submitted my proposal under the wrong organization... I know, I know. Is there any way to fix this? |
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| 03:34.18 | d4ddi0 | eilime: If I understand correctly, I'm afraid your proposal is invalid |
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| 03:34.30 | d4ddi0 | I'm just a student. |
| 03:34.35 | Catfish_Man | eilime: I would email carols and see if she can help |
| 03:34.43 | Catfish_Man | I doubt anyone expected this to happen :P |
| 03:35.05 | eilime | I feel so silly. Who is carols and how do I reach her? |
| 03:35.24 | Catfish_Man | she's in charge of gsoc this year, and is often on this irc channel |
| 03:35.43 | Catfish_Man | I don't have her email address handy unfortunately, but I suspect it shouldn't be too hard to find |
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| 03:36.09 | eilime | great. thanks so much. I'll look for the email, and keep my eyes out in here. |
| 03:36.32 | Catfish_Man | danderson may also be able to help |
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| 03:36.40 | Catfish_Man | at least in pointing in the right direction |
| 03:37.48 | bawr | Arg, more than two weeks of waiting. :/ |
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| 03:41.56 | cmurillo | eilime: carols@google.com |
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| 03:44.35 | bawr | Uhh, how do I know if a comment has been made on my proposal? I didn't sign up for notifications before, and now when I click on my proposal on the list page, nothing happens. |
| 03:44.52 | eilime | thanks for the email! |
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| 03:48.09 | iamherealive | I am unable to see my own proposal. That I submitted. How do I comment to the proposal when I am unable to see it? |
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| 03:51.40 | xiainx | you can't |
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| 03:53.20 | iamherealive | Is their a way to see comments given out by my mentor? |
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| 03:57.04 | iamherealive | <PROTECTED> |
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| 03:58.43 | Manca | you should be able to see your proposal under "List my Studen proposals" section |
| 03:59.04 | Manca | there should be an organization and associated proposal if you submitted it successfully |
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| 04:00.53 | iamherealive | Yes, I am able to see my proposal when I click "List my Student Proposals". But it is only outline of my proposal when I click on them, I am unable to see my complete proposal. |
| 04:01.10 | Manca | it's weird |
| 04:01.17 | Manca | you should be able to see whole proposal |
| 04:01.33 | iamherealive | I just wanted to keep track of my Mentor comments and reply to them accordingly? |
| 04:01.34 | Manca | and at the bottom there should be a comment box, so that you and your mentors can comment on it |
| 04:02.01 | jkwood | I'm having issues with that as well - I can't get any of the student proposals to load. They highlight when I click on them, but they don't open. |
| 04:02.04 | Manca | also, you can subscribe to your proposal, so that you get updates if somebody makes a comment on your proposal. |
| 04:02.23 | Manca | it works like charm for me |
| 04:03.01 | iamherealive | I am facing the exact issue that "jkwood" explained. |
| 04:03.36 | Manca | what browser do you use? |
| 04:03.42 | iamherealive | Firefox |
| 04:03.45 | jkwood | Firefox. |
| 04:03.47 | Manca | weird |
| 04:03.52 | jkwood | And no, I haven't had issues until now. |
| 04:03.54 | mmadia | what mouse button are you trying,, primary or middle -- so as to open in a 2nd tab ? |
| 04:04.09 | jkwood | Both. |
| 04:04.13 | Manca | maybe it's just a temporary glitch |
| 04:04.21 | Manca | but again it works w/o problems for me |
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| 04:06.15 | tridactyla | same problem here on chrome |
| 04:06.20 | iamherealive | I just checked with Chrome same issue. S |
| 04:07.24 | jkwood | Boy, I sure hope Melange gets some good students this year to fix their half-baked software... |
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| 04:08.18 | iamherealive | I did't checked the checkbox which said "Make my proposal public". Is this the cause of the issue? |
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| 04:08.32 | mmadia | not for nothing, but that's not a very thankful or motivating comment, jkwood. :| |
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| 04:09.25 | tridactyla | iamherealive: nope, i did and i have the same issue. you don't happen to have the url in your browser history, do you? |
| 04:09.52 | jkwood | mmadia: When my software has major issues, I don't release it to the public in a production environment. |
| 04:10.33 | iamherealive | tridactyla: No, I don't have the URL in my browser history. |
| 04:11.23 | iamherealive | tridactyla: I don't think the URL might help. |
| 04:11.53 | jkwood | mmadia: That said, I gripe about Sourceforge too, but we continue to use them. So, I probably should just keep quiet if I'm not submitting a patch. |
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| 04:12.18 | marcosroriz | Are you guys having problem with seeing the student proposal too? |
| 04:13.23 | jkwood | marcosroriz: Yes, I can't open any of them (It worked earlier today.) |
| 04:13.33 | marcosroriz | I'm with this issue too :/ |
| 04:14.33 | tridactyla | iamherealive: yes it works if you just go the the url. i think just the links are broken |
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| 04:15.34 | jkwood | Not working in Konqueror either. |
| 04:16.08 | jkwood | loads the Melange changelog |
| 04:16.11 | bawr | Oh damn, Plan 9 was mentoring? How the hell did I miss that? :( |
| 04:16.24 | bawr | Ah well. Something to look for during the next GSoC. |
| 04:16.43 | iamherealive | tridactyla: I should have saved the URL, its too late now |
| 04:17.25 | marcosroriz | I didn't save the url |
| 04:17.34 | marcosroriz | btw guys, how many proposal you guys submitted? |
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| 04:18.15 | bawr | One here. |
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| 04:19.07 | marcosroriz | two here :3 |
| 04:19.28 | tridactyla | iamherealive: with chrome you can use "inspect element", then look for the t170xxxxxxxx, and put that in the url http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/student_proposal/private/google/gsoc2010/<your username>/t127xxxxxxxx |
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| 04:20.05 | iamherealive | tridactyla: I was using Firefox, When I submitted the proposal. |
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| 04:21.10 | tridactyla | iamherealive: it doesn't matter what you used to submit it. but i'm sure firefox has a similar feature, maybe with a plugin |
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| 04:24.57 | tridactyla | iamherealive: yep, it looks like firebug for firefox will also work |
| 04:25.31 | *** join/#gsoc gnaruag (~gnaruag@122.162.245.210) |
| 04:25.50 | iamherealive | tridactyla: How do I perform a similar task in Firefox using firebug? |
| 04:26.38 | tridactyla | iamherealive: right click on your proposal in the table thing, then select "inspect element" |
| 04:27.14 | *** join/#gsoc hiddenpearls-awa (~hiddenpea@119.152.28.165) |
| 04:30.29 | bawr | tridactyla: Ah, thanks. Thanks to that advice I've found a link in my history. |
| 04:31.02 | bawr | Turns out I even have one comment, where they say they got my submission and are reviewing it. |
| 04:31.09 | gracelaw | Hi there, hope this is the right place for this question - virgin GSoC admin here :-) I have accepted a mentor's request in Melange, but he is not listed on my mentor's page and I can't assign him to a student proposal |
| 04:31.18 | gracelaw | do you know what I should do? |
| 04:32.16 | *** join/#gsoc secureendpoints (~chatzilla@cpe-24-193-47-88.nyc.res.rr.com) |
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| 04:36.18 | iamherealive | tridactyla: Thanks for help. |
| 04:36.23 | *** part/#gsoc iamherealive (~iamhereal@117.192.167.241) |
| 04:38.53 | bawr | And now that I know mentors were asked not to pre-announce accepted proposals, I'll die of a stress-induced heart attack before I get to see the results. ;/ |
| 04:39.23 | wtachi | if you die, can I have your computer? |
| 04:40.15 | jkwood | http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=870 for anyone else having this issue. |
| 04:40.51 | bawr | wtachi: No. No you can't. |
| 04:41.03 | bawr | I demand a Viking burial with all my electronics. |
| 04:41.55 | wtachi | I don't know how the vikings will feel about that. |
| 04:42.22 | wtachi | Who knows, maybe you'll go to Valhalla and Thor will become addicted to World of Warcrafty |
| 04:42.26 | wtachi | *Warcraft |
| 04:42.30 | bawr | s/Viking/Vulcan, if that's more your thing. ;) |
| 04:42.48 | bawr | Pshaw, World of Warcraft. |
| 04:43.31 | wtachi | I've never played, but maybe Vikings would be interested |
| 04:44.50 | bawr | Well, scratch the Viking part, anyway. I just want to be buried with all my stuff on the off-chance that Egyptians were right. |
| 04:45.44 | wtachi | good luck with that |
| 04:46.01 | *** join/#gsoc abhijain (~abhishek@218.248.65.242) |
| 04:47.26 | bawr | Nah, I actually hope that if I die there's just nothing. I'd feel silly and out of place if any of the major religions got it right. Discordianism I could live with, but that's only because Discordians have no official stance here. :) |
| 04:47.46 | *** join/#gsoc anth_x (~a@c-98-221-10-138.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 04:49.26 | wtachi | so if you're buried with your stuff, people will only think you're silly in this world |
| 04:49.31 | wtachi | of course, they would if you didn't, too |
| 04:51.59 | bawr | Well, what people think about me, whether I'm dead or not, isn't really my concern. |
| 04:52.27 | *** join/#gsoc hwked (~ankit@122.173.199.160) |
| 04:53.05 | bawr | But if we're talking burials, a cremation with electronics and having "Always look at the bright side of life" playing wouldn't be bad. At all. |
| 04:53.18 | *** join/#gsoc hiddenpearls-awa (~hiddenpea@119.152.28.165) |
| 04:53.28 | wtachi | hm |
| 04:53.34 | wtachi | yes, that's definitely the right song |
| 04:53.49 | wtachi | but shouldn't you be crucified, then? |
| 04:53.55 | wtachi | I'm just saying |
| 04:54.24 | wtachi | and you should sing along |
| 04:54.38 | wtachi | :P |
| 04:55.48 | *** part/#gsoc umashanthi (~A@112.135.138.129) |
| 04:56.09 | bawr | Well, if we're talking about my true dreams which I dare not even suggest putting in practice in public... I'd like an intricate system of springs, strings and pulleys connected to my body to make it dance before the coffin shuts forever at the end of the song. ;P |
| 04:56.29 | bawr | Because hey, I'll be dead, anyway. |
| 04:56.45 | harlan | anybody here good with tinyproxy? |
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| 04:57.06 | wtachi | bawr: that would be all over youtube |
| 04:57.17 | wtachi | do you want your funeral to be reduced to a funny youtube video? |
| 04:57.43 | bawr | wtachi: Let me think... would it really be funny? |
| 04:57.53 | wtachi | depends |
| 04:58.03 | *** join/#gsoc nmudgal (~d2d46c84@gateway/web/freenode/x-ymgvyjgrcuvcsfyg) |
| 04:58.10 | wtachi | on music and clothing |
| 04:58.44 | bawr | As I said, I'd be dead anyway... might as well be the first person to put fun in funeral. |
| 04:58.46 | wtachi | when I get old, I'm going to move to a national park and live off the land until I die |
| 04:59.01 | wtachi | that's the idea, anyway |
| 04:59.11 | wtachi | there probably won't be any national parks left |
| 04:59.48 | bawr | Ah, that'd be a problem. |
| 05:00.05 | *** join/#gsoc rryan (~rryan@dhcp-18-111-7-131.dyn.mit.edu) |
| 05:00.15 | harlan | and a terrible shame |
| 05:00.16 | rryan | is it just me, or is melange not loading student proposals atm |
| 05:01.11 | *** join/#gsoc m1nt (~mint@189.150.141.47) |
| 05:01.15 | bawr | rryan: Yeah, there's a bug. Do you have google chrome or firebug for firefox? |
| 05:01.24 | rryan | both yea |
| 05:01.48 | *** join/#gsoc Crix- (~no@c-68-52-135-170.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 05:02.06 | bawr | Once the list loads, inspect the element with your proposal. |
| 05:02.16 | bawr | The format of the link is something like this: |
| 05:02.25 | bawr | http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/student_proposal/private/google/gsoc2010/bawr/t127006308673 |
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| 05:02.53 | bawr | You'll find something similar around that element, just stitch it together. |
| 05:03.00 | rryan | k, thanks |
| 05:03.12 | bawr | No problem. |
| 05:04.36 | jkwood | http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=869 if you want to vote on the bug. |
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| 05:11.52 | anth_x | huh. it was working for me about 5-10 minutes ago but just stopped. |
| 05:12.05 | wtachi | caching? |
| 05:12.35 | *** join/#gsoc lunaticare (~quassel@ip-95-221-8-242.bb.netbynet.ru) |
| 05:12.37 | anth_x | seems unlikely, given how the list is generated after page load. |
| 05:13.19 | anth_x | the Notifications list is displaying the same behavior (and was similarly working ~10 minutes ago) |
| 05:14.16 | wtachi | yup, it broke for me too after I refreshed |
| 05:14.35 | Crix- | i think application viewing is down right now |
| 05:14.46 | Crix- | mine didn't work a few times |
| 05:15.16 | wtachi | it still works if you know the URL |
| 05:16.13 | jkwood | It's just the Ajax redirection (grumble grumble poor use of Ajax) that's broken, but that's more than enough. |
| 05:16.59 | wtachi | well, it still worked for almost everyone up until the deadline |
| 05:17.09 | wtachi | which is an accomplishment I guess |
| 05:17.37 | *** join/#gsoc pushkalcodes (~d2d43dfb@gateway/web/freenode/x-adgtcndxdolwfoug) |
| 05:17.38 | jkwood | That's because they pushed the update AFTER the deadline. |
| 05:18.03 | anth_x | wisely. |
| 05:18.54 | jkwood | reviewing the changes they made, they shouldn't have pushed it at any point during the application process - I could be busy reviewing student applications right now. |
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| 05:19.21 | bawr | jkwood: Yeah. Why didn't they just make the titles work like links is beyond me. I mean damn, reinventing hyperlinks with AJAX? :| |
| 05:19.58 | wtachi | it's the future!!! |
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| 05:20.25 | *** join/#gsoc swa_k (~swagatkar@115.242.79.161) |
| 05:20.29 | wtachi | Webkit will be reimplemented in Javascript! |
| 05:20.36 | swa_k | hi room!! |
| 05:20.45 | bawr | Also, let me say that once again, because I fell really stupid. Plan 9 was a mentoring organisation this year, and I missed it. :( |
| 05:20.52 | bawr | wtachi: hahahahaha. |
| 05:21.00 | bawr | Hello, swa_k . |
| 05:21.16 | anth_x | bawr: it's okay, we forgive you. |
| 05:21.26 | swa_k | so wats the mood of the room today,yesterday all were jittery |
| 05:21.46 | wtachi | it got busy right around the deadline |
| 05:21.49 | jkwood | Next thing you know, they'll be rendering video in HTML. |
| 05:21.51 | anth_x | you can still come write code for us, we'll take it. |
| 05:22.09 | bawr | jkwood: You know what scares me? With HTML5 that's actually doable. |
| 05:22.12 | wtachi | jkwood: you mean decoding |
| 05:22.26 | anth_x | we got fewer proposals than last year, but the average quality was much higher. i don't think we got a *single* spam app. |
| 05:22.38 | bawr | anth_x: If I don't get selected for GSoC, I will. |
| 05:22.39 | swa_k | i still have no comments from mentors :( |
| 05:22.44 | harlan | we had no spam apps, either. |
| 05:22.51 | *** join/#gsoc skbohra (~x287@unaffiliated/skbohra) |
| 05:23.02 | wtachi | swa_k: it could take days |
| 05:23.16 | swa_k | yea i have my fingers crossed |
| 05:23.20 | bawr | If I won't, I'm still going to, but after GSoC. I've been a silent supporter of Plan 9 for far too long. |
| 05:24.08 | anth_x | it's good stuff. we'll be here. :-) |
| 05:24.20 | jkwood | Oh, and blinking text. Because traditional methods of highlighting just aren't enough. |
| 05:25.03 | bawr | jkwood: Wait, what? Someone put a <blink> tag in the proposal for your org? |
| 05:25.20 | anth_x | Their tags shall blink until the end of days? |
| 05:25.28 | wtachi | it's in the org name |
| 05:25.50 | *** join/#gsoc dash123 (~d2d43d17@gateway/web/freenode/x-egevokqelavqzbax) |
| 05:26.25 | dash123 | anybody else having trouble viewing their already submitted proposals? |
| 05:26.26 | wtachi | not to mention black text with black shadows |
| 05:26.36 | jkwood | bawr: Still griping about using AJAX for links. Don't mind me. |
| 05:26.37 | wtachi | dash123: yes, many |
| 05:26.44 | jkwood | dash123: http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=869 |
| 05:26.57 | bawr | jkwood: Ah. In that case, I can sympathise. |
| 05:28.01 | bawr | So, is Go interesting enough to learn it, or is it mostly cool as a proof of concept? |
| 05:28.02 | *** join/#gsoc ritek (~quassel@189.223.26.228.dsl.dyn.telnor.net) |
| 05:28.14 | wtachi | could be way worse--my university's registration interface does an SQL query every time you view the course catalog |
| 05:28.21 | wtachi | and remembers it for when you click the links |
| 05:29.24 | bawr | Ouch... ow. Ow. |
| 05:29.31 | swa_k | so are the stats for the number of apllicants out?? |
| 05:29.40 | swa_k | *applicants |
| 05:29.53 | anth_x | bawr: i've not looked at it myself yet, but it's got a ton of momentum. it looks quite real. |
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| 05:31.34 | ei-grad | !timeline |
| 05:31.35 | socinfo | "timeline" is (#1) http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs#timeline, or (#2) for the visually oriented: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_mRuBILD0TjI/S6tGHR4mM3I/AAAAAAAACbw/tftJozZHs-0/s1600/gsoc10timeline.JPG |
| 05:31.58 | ferringb | holy crap that bot needs to die. |
| 05:32.08 | bawr | Ooh, Rob Pike and Ken Thompson... Looks good so far. |
| 05:32.18 | dash123 | jkwood, wtachi: thanks. Nice to know that I am not alone :) |
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| 05:32.52 | ferringb | anyone else recently been having issues accessing list items via firefox/chromium? |
| 05:33.04 | wtachi | yes, many |
| 05:33.05 | jkwood | ferringb: https://sourceforge.net/apps/phpbb/freedroid/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=55 |
| 05:33.09 | wtachi | http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail |
| 05:33.24 | jkwood | BTW, everyone vote on that bug so they fix it yesterday. |
| 05:33.26 | ferringb | wtachi: kind of figured, just nudging to see what/why/when ;) |
| 05:33.32 | wtachi | someone should change topic |
| 05:33.46 | *** join/#gsoc fsteeg (~fsteeg@xdsl-78-34-130-241.netcologne.de) |
| 05:33.47 | ferringb | yeah, it's kind of retarded that the only browser that seems to work for me is IE, and this is fairly non-windows centric of a program... ;) |
| 05:33.56 | ferringb | also, that was horrible english on my part. |
| 05:34.13 | jkwood | ferringb: IE is working? |
| 05:34.18 | jkwood | boggles |
| 05:34.23 | bawr | Well, if it's described as "Python meets C", I absolutely must check it out. |
| 05:34.27 | *** join/#gsoc mmohit (~chatzilla@122.169.136.4) |
| 05:34.39 | ferringb | was when I last tried it, isn't w/ the ie6 version I've got in a vm |
| 05:34.40 | bawr | Seeing as I love both. Yeah, I'm weird like that. |
| 05:34.53 | wtachi | Python+C is far too few languages to make an interesting combination |
| 05:35.07 | wtachi | I'm sure there's much more than that |
| 05:35.15 | jkwood | ferringb: If you tried it before the application period ended, then you tried it before they pushed the update that broke it. |
| 05:35.28 | ferringb | ok |
| 05:35.39 | ferringb | jkwood: also, that link you gave me doesn't exactly look relevant btw... |
| 05:35.40 | swa_k | so after the deadline mostly mentors hang out here :) |
| 05:35.46 | ferringb | wtachi: and your link is a 404 |
| 05:35.46 | bawr | I would disagree there. Python, by definition, already contains half of Common Lisp. |
| 05:35.52 | jkwood | Whoops, sorry. |
| 05:35.54 | *** join/#gsoc [mharrison] (~mharrison@c-71-192-116-155.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 05:35.56 | wtachi | oops |
| 05:36.02 | ferringb | yep. |
| 05:36.02 | bawr | And Python, Lisp and C can add up to something interesting. ;) |
| 05:36.06 | jkwood | http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=869 |
| 05:36.14 | ferringb | multi-fail to confuse the crap out of me even further ;) |
| 05:36.18 | jkwood | Forgot I had pasted to one of our users. |
| 05:36.22 | ferringb | thanks |
| 05:36.27 | *** part/#gsoc gracelaw (~gracelaw@c-67-164-97-141.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 05:36.33 | wtachi | what about Haskell? I'd like to see a mix of C and Python with monads and STM |
| 05:36.46 | wtachi | just because of the obscureness, partly |
| 05:36.57 | bawr | No. Not Haskell. OCaml I could go with. |
| 05:37.27 | wtachi | the beauty of Lisp (Scheme, at least) is the simplicity; I doubt Go has enough of that |
| 05:37.39 | wtachi | but I really shouldn't talk before looking at it |
| 05:38.08 | bawr | Basically, I think that Haskell is about 5-20% as useful as zealots claim it to be. |
| 05:38.25 | bawr | If we're going for obscure and useful things, give me Erlang any day. |
| 05:38.35 | jkwood | Whitespace is the language of the future. |
| 05:38.38 | bawr | :D |
| 05:38.46 | wtachi | nobody cares about whitespace |
| 05:38.48 | wtachi | INTERCAL FTW |
| 05:38.55 | wtachi | even better spec than Scheme |
| 05:39.10 | ferringb | [mharrison]: hola |
| 05:39.23 | jkwood | wtachi: http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/whitespace/ |
| 05:39.31 | [mharrison] | Sup |
| 05:39.47 | ferringb | panera harrison by chance? |
| 05:39.58 | wtachi | I've seen it before, even written a program, but it isn't interesting |
| 05:40.00 | [mharrison] | Nope. M Harrison |
| 05:40.04 | ferringb | err, panela, pardon |
| 05:40.10 | wtachi | imo |
| 05:40.13 | *** join/#gsoc fabiocba (~chatzilla@187.64.38.100) |
| 05:40.17 | bawr | wtachi: Nah, R6RS is better than most specs I |
| 05:40.19 | bawr | 've seen. |
| 05:40.32 | jkwood | Then perhaps http://www.staringispolite.com/likepython/ ? |
| 05:40.35 | wtachi | have you read the INTERCAL spec? |
| 05:41.03 | bawr | Yes. Rabbit ears and all similar names were particularly a nice touch. |
| 05:41.19 | ritek | !next |
| 05:41.20 | socinfo | "next" is Student applications are closed. Be ready to respond to comments on and about your proposal. Accepted student proposals will be announced at http://socghop.appspot.com on April 26: 19:00 UTC. |
| 05:41.46 | wtachi | INTERCAL wins because of the humor |
| 05:41.55 | wtachi | did you know C++ only has one limerick? |
| 05:42.01 | fabiocba | hi, i'd love to know if once the deadline april 9th is gone, can't i apply anymore my proposal? it means i've lost my participation at gsoc? |
| 05:42.07 | wtachi | and I agree, aside from humor R6RS is great |
| 05:42.11 | wtachi | !extension |
| 05:42.12 | socinfo | "extension" is The deadline WAS NOT extended and WILL NOT be. Not even for you. |
| 05:42.18 | [mharrison] | lol |
| 05:42.33 | bawr | fabiocba: Yes, you can't get an extension. Better luck next year, and start earky. |
| 05:42.36 | bawr | *early |
| 05:42.41 | fabiocba | =/ |
| 05:42.44 | fabiocba | ok sry guys |
| 05:43.19 | bawr | wtachi: Wait, I remember this "real" spec that also had a lot of humour thrown in... |
| 05:43.21 | wtachi | anyway, 'night |
| 05:43.23 | *** part/#gsoc ferringb (~ferringb@gentoo/developer/ferringb) |
| 05:43.25 | *** part/#gsoc wtachi (~sean@cpe-065-190-001-228.nc.res.rr.com) |
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| 05:43.39 | wtachi | bawr: what? |
| 05:43.41 | bawr | No, I don't. Ah, well. Maybe some day I'll remember. |
| 05:43.53 | wtachi | oh, okay |
| 05:43.56 | *** part/#gsoc wtachi (~sean@cpe-065-190-001-228.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 05:44.41 | bawr | Okay, today's the 10th, so that means there's over two weeks of checking my e-mail for mentor comments every few minutes. :/ |
| 05:44.51 | bawr | grr |
| 05:45.04 | haris_ | Are you mentor bawr? |
| 05:45.13 | bawr | No. |
| 05:45.31 | haris_ | Oh. Okay. |
| 05:46.06 | bawr | haris_: If you subscribe on your proposal page, you get notified if a mentor reviews / comments it. |
| 05:47.25 | haris_ | Oh... Can you please tell me how to send private messages here? |
| 05:47.40 | bawr | Here? As in, on IRC? |
| 05:47.48 | haris_ | Yes please. |
| 05:48.21 | bawr | In most clients, something like "/msg nick your message". It will probably open a separate chat window with that nick for you. |
| 05:48.37 | *** join/#gsoc hiddenpearls-awa (~hiddenpea@116.71.171.188) |
| 05:48.44 | bawr | Or the window will be opened once the person replies. Depends on the client, really. |
| 05:49.04 | haris_ | Okay... |
| 05:49.21 | haris_ | MSG bawr So, are you a GSoC student? |
| 05:49.36 | bawr | Forgot the "/". :) |
| 05:49.41 | haris_ | oops... |
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| 06:07.11 | spsneo | !next |
| 06:07.12 | socinfo | "next" is Student applications are closed. Be ready to respond to comments on and about your proposal. Accepted student proposals will be announced at http://socghop.appspot.com on April 26: 19:00 UTC. |
| 06:07.39 | *** join/#gsoc xiainx (~xiainx@modemcable195.238-202-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 06:08.04 | neh | socinfo, what are total no of apps this time? |
| 06:08.04 | socinfo | Error: "what" is not a valid command. |
| 06:08.23 | spsneo | !help |
| 06:08.23 | socinfo | "help" is !next, !faq, !advice and !wiki. !botabuse tells you about private query syntax |
| 06:08.23 | neh | socinfo, any infor abt total no of apps this time? |
| 06:08.24 | socinfo | Error: "any" is not a valid command. |
| 06:08.36 | spsneo | neh: socinfo is a bot |
| 06:08.39 | neh | spsneo socinfo is a useless bot |
| 06:08.46 | spsneo | neh: hehe :D |
| 06:08.57 | bawr | This information will be released after the list of accepted applications is done, or so we've heard. |
| 06:09.16 | spsneo | bawr: isn't it done yet |
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| 06:10.35 | bawr | A list of *accepted* proposals, as opposed to *submitted* proposals. :) |
| 06:10.59 | pk__ | so much of wait :( |
| 06:11.32 | neh | bawr ok.. yep its too much of wait! |
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| 06:11.59 | bawr | Hey, no argument there. |
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| 06:12.20 | spsneo | bawr: My bad ! |
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| 06:15.22 | mayanks43 | app period over :) |
| 06:15.49 | spsneo | mayanks43: why are you so happy about it |
| 06:15.57 | mayanks43 | its a relief |
| 06:16.07 | spsneo | mayanks43: hehe true |
| 06:16.22 | mayanks43 | now time for goosebumps :( |
| 06:16.44 | bawr | And OCD checking for new comments. |
| 06:17.03 | mayanks43 | perhaps :P |
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| 06:18.36 | ufong | !next |
| 06:18.36 | socinfo | "next" is Student applications are closed. Be ready to respond to comments on and about your proposal. Accepted student proposals will be announced at http://socghop.appspot.com on April 26: 19:00 UTC. |
| 06:20.11 | pk__ | most crucial period |
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| 06:24.06 | *** join/#gsoc evdk (~x@ip134-101-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) |
| 06:24.35 | evdk | Hi all |
| 06:24.41 | evdk | I just reported this issue |
| 06:24.42 | evdk | http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=871 |
| 06:24.54 | evdk | I can't open any student proposals anymore |
| 06:25.05 | evdk | seems after the last update which fixes the sorting |
| 06:25.15 | evdk | you guys also experiencing this? |
| 06:25.40 | anirvana | no, i just viewed my proposal |
| 06:25.51 | bawr | Yes, there's like three separate reports. |
| 06:25.59 | nfl | !next |
| 06:25.59 | socinfo | "next" is Student applications are closed. Be ready to respond to comments on and about your proposal. Accepted student proposals will be announced at http://socghop.appspot.com on April 26: 19:00 UTC. |
| 06:26.14 | bawr | anirvana: go to the list page, do ctrl+f5, see if it'll work then. |
| 06:26.29 | nfl | !next |
| 06:26.30 | socinfo | "next" is Student applications are closed. Be ready to respond to comments on and about your proposal. Accepted student proposals will be announced at http://socghop.appspot.com on April 26: 19:00 UTC. |
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| 06:27.20 | anirvana | I guess it's an issue for mentor/admin pages, i am astudent and i can view my proposals |
| 06:27.42 | evdk | ok, indeed I am mentor/admin |
| 06:27.49 | evdk | I haven't seen the student pages |
| 06:27.50 | bawr | anirvana: The issue is that the entries on the *list* of proposals aren't clickable. |
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| 06:28.06 | bawr | Could be you're lucky. |
| 06:28.22 | bawr | But it's pretty much reported on Chrome, Firefox, IE and Safari so far. |
| 06:29.06 | evdk | I care more about reading proposals than the sort order, I think this goes for most o us |
| 06:29.14 | evdk | maybe the update can be reverted |
| 06:29.15 | evdk | ? |
| 06:29.23 | jkwood | evdk: You were the third reporter, then. |
| 06:29.34 | jkwood | 869 and 870 both deal with the same issue. |
| 06:29.36 | anirvana | bawr : I am no lucky :( , even i can't click on it |
| 06:29.47 | bawr | anirvana: Told you. ;P |
| 06:31.29 | anirvana | bawr : but i can view my proposal using the direct link :P |
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| 06:32.20 | bawr | anirvana: I know, we all can. :) |
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| 06:37.39 | adifire | funny those posts in google groups - "oh i didn't see the deadline, can i submit the app now also?" lol! |
| 06:38.37 | WarrenB | Cannot find page. Did you mean "sock hop proposal"? |
| 06:38.48 | Ophiuchi | well, in Real Life (tm) that often actually works, unless your prospective client is govermnment |
| 06:39.54 | bawr | Ophiuchi: It was made pretty clear that there will be no deadline extension, and that it is a hard deadline. |
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| 06:43.49 | Ignat | hi everybody |
| 06:43.53 | Ignat | When can I see comments to the application? |
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| 06:44.01 | spsneo | evdk: yeah I am also not able to open my proposals anymore |
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| 06:44.22 | ihalip | morning peeps |
| 06:46.53 | Ophiuchi | bawr: not saying that it's a good idea to count on being able to get an extension, just that it's not completely ridiculous |
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| 06:48.08 | Ophiuchi | Ignat: when someone made a public comment |
| 06:49.02 | evdk | Ophiuchi, Ignat: which probably takes at least until Melange is fixed |
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| 06:51.11 | Ignat | what`s mean "Melange"? |
| 06:51.32 | Ophiuchi | evdk: there is currently a problem in the student view? |
| 06:51.32 | evdk | Ignat: the website used to manage GSoC apps |
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| 06:51.47 | Ignat | ok) |
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| 06:52.10 | evdk | Ophiuchi: it is not possible to open proposals since the update last night |
| 06:52.59 | jkwood | Ophiuchi: No, we got a hard and fast "No extensions, better luck next year." on the mentors mailing list, so while it may not be ridiculous, it's not possible. |
| 06:53.50 | Ophiuchi | evdk: Ic. The admin/mentor view seems to be ok though, I don't see issues |
| 06:54.13 | ihalip | evdk: oh great, i thought it was just a problem with my connection |
| 06:54.16 | dukeleto | I am an org admin and I can't seem to to see the proposals for my students |
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| 06:54.20 | Ophiuchi | jkwood: to be entirely clear: I'm not deating that. I'm saying pointing and laughing is not entiely appropriate. |
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| 06:54.48 | Ophiuchi | 'debating' and 'entirely' |
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| 06:55.18 | dukeleto | the list of proposals is there, but clicking on them does nothing. other mentors in my org have the same issue. is anybody else seeing this? |
| 06:55.31 | ihalip | dukeleto: me too (as student) |
| 06:55.43 | anirvana | dukeleto : It's a bug |
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| 06:55.58 | anirvana | dukeleto : http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=871 |
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| 06:56.38 | anirvana | Nobody can click on those link, but you can use the direct link, if you remember |
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| 06:57.51 | dukeleto | ihalip: that is the correct behavior as a student, but this also occurs for org admins and mentors |
| 06:58.12 | ihalip | it can't be possible to be the correct behavior |
| 06:58.33 | ihalip | i should still see my proposal and be able to add a comment |
| 06:58.40 | anirvana | It's not the correct behavior dukeleto even for students |
| 07:00.03 | dukeleto | anirvana: thanks for the clarification |
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| 07:02.01 | kblin | morning folks |
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| 07:20.02 | Ophiuchi | fun datapoint to the 869-871 bug: it was working for my org until a second admin tried to do something with it |
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| 07:31.56 | _Samo | hi |
| 07:32.04 | _Samo | I'm an admin |
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| 07:32.36 | _Samo | I find that today morning I can not longer enter into student application |
| 07:33.02 | anirvana | _Samo : http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=871 |
| 07:33.07 | jkwood | _Samo: http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=869 |
| 07:33.30 | _Samo | ok thanks for the heas up |
| 07:35.00 | _Samo | I guess it is a good oportunity for admins and mentors to take a break this weekend after so many days of hard work |
| 07:35.16 | jkwood | Something like that. ;) |
| 07:35.24 | jenred | well yes but we are also supposed to have a few things done by Monday |
| 07:35.55 | _Samo | jenred, like what? |
| 07:36.06 | kblin | _Samo: like check the mailing list ;) |
| 07:36.15 | kblin | carol wrote the list there |
| 07:36.17 | _Samo | yep |
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| 07:37.08 | kblin | but I guess unless you got a lot of spam proposals during the last few days, it's not that bad |
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| 07:39.35 | jenred | mentors need to be assigned to projects as well |
| 07:40.00 | jenred | and we like to use this period to provide students additional feedback |
| 07:40.09 | jenred | hopefully things will be fixed soon |
| 07:40.14 | kblin | yeah :) |
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| 07:45.30 | kblin | has anyone figured out a good way to extract all the application texts from melange, btw? |
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| 07:50.09 | _Samo | yep |
| 07:50.46 | _Samo | 'CVS export' button on the right? |
| 07:51.04 | _Samo | *CSV |
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| 07:54.21 | Ophiuchi | that, and cut and paste. |
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| 08:22.54 | kblin | _Samo: that just exports the list, as far as I see |
| 08:23.15 | kblin | ah, no |
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| 08:23.54 | kblin | no pre-coffee work.. especially not if you get woken up early |
| 08:24.50 | thebolt | morning kblin |
| 08:25.03 | kblin | morning thebolt |
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| 08:29.53 | Ophiuchi | pushes some coffee west |
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| 08:31.34 | kblin | Ophiuchi: west? |
| 08:31.59 | Ophiuchi | kblin: you were in BaWue, right? |
| 08:32.04 | kblin | ok, granted, at least your host is east from here :) |
| 08:33.32 | Ophiuchi | kblin: yep, I'm in Bavaria |
| 08:33.39 | mayanks43 | how do we get the public link now tht edit my proposal has been disabled??? |
| 08:33.57 | thiago_home | you don't edit |
| 08:34.26 | mayanks43 | how to get the public link to the proposal |
| 08:34.30 | mayanks43 | anyone?? |
| 08:35.10 | Ophiuchi | mayanks43: http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=871 .. there's a bug, don't panic just yet |
| 08:35.44 | mayanks43 | actually m a student |
| 08:35.50 | mayanks43 | and m able to view my propsal |
| 08:36.07 | kblin | Ophiuchi: anyway, thanks for the coffee |
| 08:36.13 | mayanks43 | but not getting the public link |
| 08:36.44 | kblin | goes back to play with his new toy |
| 08:37.05 | kblin | er... s/play/work/ s/toy/nas/ |
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| 08:37.26 | thebolt | kblin: :P |
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| 08:38.07 | kblin | Though I do want to hit whoever came up with the name for the raid discovery tool over the head |
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| 08:38.49 | thebolt | kblin: oh? what NAS and what tool? |
| 08:39.09 | kblin | a netger readynas duo.. and the tool is called "RAIDar" |
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| 08:39.16 | thebolt | ah yes :) |
| 08:39.18 | thebolt | i also have a duo |
| 08:39.22 | thebolt | never used that tool though |
| 08:39.33 | thebolt | just connected it, checked in my dhcp which IP it got and accessed it |
| 08:39.37 | |newbie| | Hello |
| 08:39.47 | kblin | hi |newbie| |
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| 08:40.08 | kblin | thebolt: well, it had a setup_Linux.sh, I decided to give that a try |
| 08:40.56 | |newbie| | My name is Alex Vishnevskyi (Iskander) i take a participate on the Google Summer of Code |
| 08:41.16 | |newbie| | unfortunately i am not writing the purposal in the GSoC, can you continue deadline for porposals so that I could write my porposual? |
| 08:41.31 | kblin | nope, not in our hands. |
| 08:41.32 | |newbie| | i working with Battle for Wesnoth (http://wesnoth.org/), has a wiki page in that site(http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeProposal_Alexander_Vishnevskyi) and regiters as GSoc Studen (http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/student/show/google/gsoc2010/iskander) |
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| 08:42.02 | kblin | |newbie|: did you submit a proposal at all? |
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| 08:42.30 | |newbie| | No i just register as a student |
| 08:42.55 | kblin | !extension |
| 08:42.55 | socinfo | "extension" is The deadline WAS NOT extended and WILL NOT be. Not even for you. |
| 08:43.20 | Upthorn | |newbie|: did you check out #wesnoth-dev at all? |
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| 08:43.41 | iamsumesh | Hi everyone. |
| 08:43.55 | |newbie| | no |
| 08:43.58 | kblin | Upthorn: if he didn't submit a proposal, it's just too late (tm) |
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| 08:44.23 | thiago_home | try again in 50 weeks |
| 08:44.48 | Ophiuchi | shift-reload on the 871 bug |
| 08:44.52 | Upthorn | |newbie|: that is a shame, because they had a bot running in #wesnoth-dev issuing frequent reminders that they can not accept students that did not make a proposal on the GSoC system. |
| 08:44.57 | Ophiuchi | started to work again for us |
| 08:45.12 | Upthorn | |newbie|: see http://asdfhgup.pastebin.com/QGgxsYvj |
| 08:45.31 | kblin | thebolt: anyway, I bought a unit without any drives and I'm currently trying to figure out if I want to boot up the box (1) without any drives in it (2) with one drive installed (3) with both drives installed |
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| 08:47.23 | araujo | Iskander, you still can contribute with the project, and stay around for next GSoC |
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| 08:48.44 | Iskander | I undersatand, but it be offensively last the chanse for annoying mystake |
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| 08:48.48 | thebolt | kblin: ah ok. ewll, i did the same but got 2*1.5TB at the same time, run with both |
| 08:49.37 | araujo | Iskander, it is fine, just stay around the wesnoth community |
| 08:49.40 | kblin | thebolt: yeah, I dicided to blow the money I earned at cebit and got two enterprise grade WD 2TB drives :) |
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| 08:55.23 | thebolt | kblin: nice :) |
| 08:55.50 | kblin | and a ram upgrade, though that was cheap :) |
| 08:55.54 | thebolt | hehe |
| 08:56.58 | thebolt | once i get the llc setup it will have to buy me a new computer.. |
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| 08:58.43 | kblin | thebolt: the fun part is that netgear is currently running a promo for customers registering their readynas, and you'll get a 500 gig drive |
| 08:59.05 | kblin | which is handy to get for my work pc, I need more space for data |
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| 09:01.17 | spsneo | kblin: can you give me the link to the netgear promo |
| 09:02.27 | kblin | spsneo: seems to be a german thing, http://www.netgear.de/promotion/ReadyNASDuo_Aktion_022010/index.html |
| 09:02.47 | spsneo | kblin: only valid for german people? |
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| 09:03.20 | kblin | germany austria and switzerland, it seems |
| 09:03.52 | shreyas | !next |
| 09:03.52 | socinfo | "next" is Student applications are closed. Be ready to respond to comments on and about your proposal. Accepted student proposals will be announced at http://socghop.appspot.com on April 26: 19:00 UTC. |
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| 09:07.48 | pavansss91|web | Hi all |
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| 09:09.02 | kblin | thebolt: hm, interesting. it seems to be up now, but didn't open port 80 |
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| 09:16.02 | Lennie | hiya |
| 09:16.16 | thebolt | kblin: test https? |
| 09:16.17 | kblin | hey Lennie |
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| 09:16.29 | thebolt | hi Lennie |
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| 09:16.57 | kblin | thebolt: I only see ports 111, 139, 445 and 631 open |
| 09:17.08 | thebolt | kblin: thats strange |
| 09:17.24 | kblin | but it's still resyncing the raid, I'll just wait until that's done |
| 09:17.38 | thebolt | yea |
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| 09:17.47 | kblin | still a bit weird |
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| 09:19.51 | thebolt | kblin: well, if i check my duo.. it use a part of the first disk to put the OS on |
| 09:20.17 | x` | good morning gsocers |
| 09:20.36 | mayanks43 | good afternoon |
| 09:20.41 | thebolt | kblin: so guessing is that it unpacks the FS image from flash or so on first bootup.. then starts stuff for real after reboot |
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| 09:22.34 | kblin | thebolt: well, it already did restart |
| 09:22.42 | thebolt | kblin: hm, ok |
| 09:22.58 | kblin | but as I said, it's now busy syncing the raid |
| 09:23.01 | kblin | hmm |
| 09:23.03 | thebolt | well, i remember it taking forever to setup (and during this period the fans ran on full..) |
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| 09:23.17 | thebolt | after that it became really quiet and nice |
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| 09:23.30 | kblin | it's not too noisy |
| 09:23.34 | kblin | aw, crap |
| 09:23.54 | kblin | I'm short one mentor for a while |
| 09:24.01 | movicont | !logs |
| 09:24.01 | socinfo | "logs" is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc |
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| 09:24.11 | thebolt | yea, but right now it is quieter than my external 3.5" USB disk (with no fan in the enclosure) |
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| 09:25.29 | kblin | same here. the noise I thought I heard from it was actually my old usb drive :) |
| 09:25.53 | kblin | anyway, I'll just let it sync for now |
| 09:26.07 | kblin | and figure out where to get a replacement mentor |
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| 09:27.25 | thebolt | kblin: in which project? |
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| 09:27.48 | kblin | samba |
| 09:28.52 | kblin | one of my mentors just contacted the team explaining his recent absence. he just got out of hospital after an accident :/ |
| 09:29.09 | thebolt | oh :( |
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| 09:35.57 | kblin | cool, I managed to miss this proposal |
| 09:36.10 | kblin | "i try to done everbest for your project" |
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| 09:36.39 | kblin | impressive. I'll assign my top mentor, /dev/null |
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| 09:37.04 | drt24 | kblin: was that the entire proposal?! |
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| 09:38.44 | kblin | drt24: no, it also contained the empty application template :) |
| 09:39.15 | kblin | and a link to a page claiming to prove the applicant's impressive C experience |
| 09:39.31 | kblin | failed a bit on reading comprehension, it seems |
| 09:39.43 | thebolt | heh |
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| 09:40.42 | Ivanovic | interestingly we don't have a single "nothing here at all" proposal this year |
| 09:40.49 | drt24 | kblin: :-) |
| 09:40.53 | Ivanovic | everyone proposing something has actually done what we asked for |
| 09:41.01 | kblin | Ivanovic: cool |
| 09:41.04 | Ivanovic | as in: join our irc chan and the likes |
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| 09:41.13 | kblin | impressive |
| 09:41.23 | Ivanovic | okay, last year we had 35 eligible proposals, this year we only have 22 |
| 09:41.40 | Ivanovic | but hey, those were able to follow direction, which was not the case last year... |
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| 09:41.47 | kblin | man, samba got a ton of proposals, some of them pretty good, and some of them pretty silly |
| 09:42.14 | kblin | I like that one student who said he was going to implement some feature in "C" |
| 09:42.19 | drt24 | has submitted a patch and has some more patches ready to send, but the project last had activity in 2000... so I am not sure whether the mentor exists yet... |
| 09:42.32 | Ivanovic | most of our students selected an idea that was proposed by us: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas |
| 09:42.55 | Ivanovic | though one came up with a *really* detailed idea that was created by himself: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/GSoC-WesnothWhiteboard_Gabba |
| 09:43.21 | AshishG | Ivanovic: so it that a good or a bad thing? |
| 09:43.35 | Ivanovic | AshishG: hmm, hard to say |
| 09:43.57 | Ivanovic | AshishG: in general ideas that come right from the student show that they invested some time to research and are interested |
| 09:44.02 | Ivanovic | which is a *great* thing |
| 09:44.11 | AshishG | Ivanovic: Generally orgs like to fullfill their requirements (their ideas) first, is that true? |
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| 09:44.22 | Ivanovic | though there is of course lots of room for "total nonsense", too |
| 09:44.36 | AshishG | hehe |
| 09:44.45 | Ivanovic | the ideas the project does list is what the project thinks are possible improvements |
| 09:44.57 | Ivanovic | improvements that are also possible in the timeframe of gsoc |
| 09:45.15 | Ivanovic | and yeah, the projects are done by humans, so they/we don't find everything that really is possible |
| 09:45.45 | kblin | AshishG: in my experience most student-proposed projects are of a higher quality |
| 09:45.46 | AshishG | hmm |
| 09:46.08 | Ivanovic | student proposed projects show that there is some initiative |
| 09:46.10 | kblin | AshishG: at least if you don't count "i try to done everbest for your project" as "student's own idea" |
| 09:46.21 | thebolt | kblin: what, you don't? :) |
| 09:46.23 | x` | whoah @at that proposal, Ivanovic! |
| 09:46.24 | Ivanovic | which is a great factor later on when it comes to motivation |
| 09:46.29 | x` | -@ |
| 09:46.41 | AshishG | @kblin: quality? there can be ideas which are easier but provide higher utility and ideas that are complex but provide lowwer utility, right? |
| 09:47.07 | steev | mmm wesnoth |
| 09:47.11 | pjlantz | for mentors: do you favor students that have open source development experience prior to sending in an application? I base this question on that many templates have this question |
| 09:47.13 | AshishG | @kblin: hehe @everyBestGuy |
| 09:47.14 | kblin | AshishG: that said, I've seen many good proposals based on project ideas suggested by the orgs |
| 09:47.15 | Ivanovic | x`: you should not forget that we are really insane and if someone asks us for a "well done" proposal we select this (expressive and outstanding!) proposal from last year: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeProposal_AI_Improvement_Crab |
| 09:47.33 | Ivanovic | of such a kind we had three last year (yeah, about the same length and quality) |
| 09:47.49 | kblin | pjlantz: no, it just makes it easier to get an idea about the student's interest and experience |
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| 09:48.05 | thebolt | Ivanovic: was the project well done though? |
| 09:48.05 | kblin | pjlantz: also, we get to look at the student's code in that case |
| 09:48.16 | steev | pjlantz: not in my experience - this year, we are having the users subscribe to a mailing list, send an introductory mail, as well as provide a patch to (anything) show that they know how to work with a vcs |
| 09:48.21 | Ivanovic | thebolt: the one doing this project is 100% insane |
| 09:48.31 | thebolt | Ivanovic: hehe okay :P |
| 09:48.32 | Ivanovic | thebolt: which makes him a mentor this year |
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| 09:48.40 | thebolt | Ivanovic: .) |
| 09:48.59 | Ivanovic | he has *great* capabilities, easily gets into the hardest and most feared parts of our codebase and just gets the job done |
| 09:49.00 | pjlantz | i see :) |
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| 09:49.14 | Ivanovic | beside this he is really helpfull, communicates with people and, yeah, is insane |
| 09:49.16 | thebolt | had one student do a totally insane projects a few years ago as well.. unfortunately it didn't make it to the core (yet) and that guy had to stop coding for medical reasons.. |
| 09:49.20 | Ivanovic | (positively insane!) |
| 09:49.31 | AshishG | http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeProposal_AI_Improvement_Crab is pretty elaborate :-o |
| 09:49.37 | kblin | AshishG: quality is mostly "research done by the student to get a clue about the technical background of the project and initiative" |
| 09:49.42 | x` | "remaining day being my Sunday D&D session - I've been a D&D DM for 9+ years" - love it. :) |
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| 09:49.54 | thebolt | but it took me as mentor pretty much all time from project proposal to midterm to fully understand the paper it is based on |
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| 09:50.10 | AshishG | hehe |
| 09:50.21 | Ivanovic | AshishG: as you see in this proposal, it is basically started based on our idea which was "do something about the AI" |
| 09:50.32 | thebolt | (the maths was terribly heavy.. and i still have ~1½ full years of maths at uni, including differential geometry etc) |
| 09:50.35 | Ivanovic | AshishG: where we thought more about having some library of commands to make things easier |
| 09:50.51 | Ivanovic | AshishG: though he thought "ahh, there is other stuff that can and should be done" |
| 09:50.57 | Ivanovic | and yeah, he did and succeeded |
| 09:51.20 | AshishG | that's inspiring |
| 09:51.45 | Ivanovic | in general the largest part about getting accepted is showing that you are able to get a grasp of things |
| 09:51.49 | kblin | AshishG: so basically "I will code a social networking plugin for melange in c/c++" is bad quality, as melange doesn't even use these languages |
| 09:51.59 | Ivanovic | that you are able to find out what really is required and how it should work |
| 09:52.08 | AshishG | :D |
| 09:52.16 | Ivanovic | and that you are able to talk to the other people around to see what makes sense |
| 09:52.28 | AshishG | hmm... so my proposal isn't that bad after all |
| 09:52.31 | kblin | I didn't make that one up, that one was suggested on the melange ml |
| 09:52.42 | Ivanovic | (and of course showing that you are most likely able to implement what you suggest, since this is "summer of CODE" not "summer of PLANS" |
| 09:52.43 | Ivanovic | ;) |
| 09:52.44 | AshishG | talked about context free grammar which for the parser |
| 09:52.44 | Gracenotes | Ivanovic: although two weeks is not a long enough time to learn an entire codebase |
| 09:52.49 | x` | 3 months is a lot of time to learn a lot of things, so the ability to learn and process unknown material is key here, I guess |
| 09:52.57 | Ivanovic | Gracenotes: noone asks to learn the entire codebase |
| 09:52.58 | Gracenotes | so some familiarity beforehand is good |
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| 09:53.07 | kblin | Ivanovic: it's called "whitepaper" anyway |
| 09:53.14 | Gracenotes | to make a proposal that actually penetrates into some useful technical detail! |
| 09:53.26 | Ivanovic | Gracenotes: and in fact you have more than two weeks |
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| 09:53.36 | gvallarelli | hi all |
| 09:53.50 | Ivanovic | you got at least the time right from when the list of orgs is annouced till two or three days before the duplicate resolution starts |
| 09:54.08 | AshishG | somone i know applied to a marine scientist org and apparently nobody else had applied to his project, that's one approach he took to get in |
| 09:54.09 | Ivanovic | and in this time you can ask the devs around how to get started best |
| 09:54.18 | kblin | Gracenotes: actually I consider proposals that indicate a reasonable attempt to understand our architecture pretty good already, even if they misunderstood the finer details of the architecture |
| 09:54.19 | Gracenotes | Ivanovic: I mean, to make a proposal that's technically sound |
| 09:55.01 | Ivanovic | Gracenotes: there is enough time to get used to things so that you can write a good proposal |
| 09:55.07 | Ivanovic | you should not think that you are all alone |
| 09:55.13 | Ivanovic | you will get pointers on where to look |
| 09:55.27 | Ivanovic | and the devs are around to discuss with you, provide feedback and refine things |
| 09:55.45 | AshishG | that's the best part |
| 09:55.47 | AshishG | the mentors |
| 09:55.50 | Ivanovic | yes, this involves lots of communication and the irc logs for the last weeks are *huge* because of this |
| 09:55.58 | Gracenotes | true, the organization wouldn't apply if it weren't into it :) |
| 09:56.12 | Ivanovic | AshishG: to be honest, it does not really matter for us at wesnoth if there is soc or not in those regards |
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| 09:56.29 | Ivanovic | AshishG: if someone wanting to do something came up outside of soc we would still provide the same help |
| 09:56.51 | Gracenotes | I'm sort of playing a devil's advocate. I did dig through so many mailing list conversations for my proposal, and I am familiar with the system I'm hoping to modify |
| 09:56.56 | AshishG | Ivanovic: that gets me interested :) |
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| 09:57.21 | Gracenotes | but, first-year student, so my experiences probably don't generalize well |
| 09:57.47 | Gracenotes | well, first year applying to GSOC |
| 09:58.05 | kblin | Gracenotes: for my first gsoc, I had two days to dig into my project, and I found a bunch of papers describing libraries I wanted to use and all |
| 09:58.55 | kblin | Gracenotes: I didn't end up implementing it the way I proposed, but the proposal still showed that I spent quite some time thinking about the problem |
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| 09:59.45 | kblin | call me egocentric, but I'd expect that good students can do the same |
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| 10:00.23 | kblin | that is, come up with a proposal that could work, even if you as a mentor might know deeper reasons why it won't work that way |
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| 10:00.47 | Gracenotes | I had so many things due this past week it's a wonder I got them all done. For the proposal, I think I didn't get into as much technical detail as I would have liked, but still managed to get out ~3000 words of good content |
| 10:01.26 | kblin | gsoc proposals got way more verbose since 2005 |
| 10:01.29 | [mharrison] | Good lord, you wrote 3000 words for your GSoC proposal? Good luck |
| 10:01.54 | Gracenotes | yeah -_- |
| 10:02.19 | Gracenotes | when I write good stuff, I write lots of it, and I take a long time doing it. |
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| 10:03.00 | thebolt | kblin: i am not sure that is a good thing though |
| 10:03.15 | thebolt | in my world it is also a virtue to be able to express what you want to say in a compact and concise way |
| 10:03.28 | Gracenotes | [mharrison]: I hope that's a good kind of "good luck" |
| 10:03.41 | Gracenotes | :P |
| 10:03.42 | [mharrison] | Yeah, sure it is =P |
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| 10:04.01 | thebolt | if a student cannot convince me in a page or two, wlel, then they have partly failed .P |
| 10:04.17 | Gracenotes | well, I *was* planning on applying for more things... |
| 10:04.20 | [mharrison] | Expressing your opinion/thoughts in a verbose form is a virtue. Especially in a program that's reading lots of applications |
| 10:04.29 | [mharrison] | Er, not verbose |
| 10:04.30 | [mharrison] | Terse |
| 10:04.33 | [mharrison] | Sigh, it's 6am here |
| 10:04.35 | skbohra | thebolt: org app templates are genereally exhaustive |
| 10:04.45 | Gracenotes | woo, 6am buddies |
| 10:05.06 | skbohra | even if i answered only them, it took 6 pages :) |
| 10:05.22 | Gracenotes | if you actually want to read it, er I mean skim it, http://docs.google.com/View?docid=0Afa5MxwyB_zYZGhjanNrdjNfMjkzZjloOWNienY&pageview=1&hgd=1&hl=en |
| 10:05.24 | thebolt | skbohra: ew, thats a bit over the top imo |
| 10:05.59 | [mharrison] | Gracenotes, I'd read it, but there's not enough time in the day for me to read 3000 words =P (I work for my university's newspaper, btw) |
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| 10:07.25 | thebolt | skbohra: also, for us the template is more like background info etc.. the real proposal is "free form" and that is the one i said 1-2 pages for.. 1-2 pages should be more than enough to describe what you want to do, a short idea of how to do it, and some kind of support that you are the right person to do ot.. then you can have "appendixes" with more info (schedule etc) but if i am to read ~40-50 proposals.. well, 8 pages or so is just too much :P |
| 10:07.29 | Gracenotes | [mharrison]: wait, I'm wrong, it's *only* 2732 words! |
| 10:07.51 | [mharrison] | heh |
| 10:08.09 | [mharrison] | In the newspaper world, 1000 words is a *big* article that most people won't read. 500 is about right |
| 10:08.19 | skbohra | thebolt: the main idea though is described in less then 2 pages |
| 10:08.27 | Gracenotes | heh. I did make sure to have *some* summary sections, at least. But, yeah. Now if I can apply the same work ethic towards a 20-page history of math paper. |
| 10:08.31 | [mharrison] | And newspaper readers aren't reading dozens/hundreds of articles at once... |
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| 10:08.45 | skbohra | thebolt: rest is personal info, why you want to work with us and all |
| 10:08.48 | thebolt | skbohra: well, those 2 pages should (IMO) be enough for me to say "okay, this one is good, lets put it on the top 10" or "nope" ;) |
| 10:08.57 | Gracenotes | [mharrison]: I might be biased.. I can read my own words pretty quickly |
| 10:08.57 | thebolt | (top10 of which we would have say 5 slots) |
| 10:09.17 | Gracenotes | probably because their origin is within my mind, and from my internal voice |
| 10:09.18 | skbohra | thebolt: that makes sense |
| 10:09.33 | [mharrison] | Gracenotes, put the important bits into a succinct app. Then link to a URL with more details if the org is interested |
| 10:09.41 | Ivanovic | thebolt: to be honest, most of the "this one is good enough for the top10" comes from direct talking |
| 10:09.48 | Ivanovic | thebolt: as in: chatting in irc |
| 10:09.54 | thebolt | Ivanovic: yea, true.. but still :P |
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| 10:10.08 | [mharrison] | You'd be surprised at how differently others interpret your "internal voice". Not only in writing, but in software engineering in general |
| 10:10.17 | thebolt | if you apply for a job and the employer have to read 8 pages.. well, good luck getting any job :P |
| 10:10.23 | [mharrison] | thebolt, yeah |
| 10:10.35 | Gracenotes | [mharrison]: that sounds really interesting, actually. what do you mean? |
| 10:10.45 | thebolt | if i were to hire someone and received a 8 page pile, well, i would throw it out without looking :P |
| 10:11.23 | thebolt | oh well, i have to go out and fix my bike |
| 10:11.25 | thebolt | bbl |
| 10:11.27 | Gracenotes | mostly in the writing sense of it. |
| 10:11.36 | Gracenotes | fix my bike too? >.> see ya |
| 10:11.50 | ebo | kblin: I've stayed away from any disk 1TB and above. I've heard that they are still to new to be reliable. One of the network admins I know have had several times the infant failure rate than 750GB and less. I wish you better luck, but you might want to check into that... |
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| 10:12.21 | [mharrison] | Gracenotes, from a software engineering standpoint, it's *hard* to get the developer and the customer/user to all be on the same page. What you think is plainly obvious, like "Show next page", someone else can interpret that completely differently |
| 10:12.48 | [mharrison] | And in writing, these people don't have ~20 years of hearing your voice...they may not know what you mean |
| 10:13.22 | ebo | kblin: loosing a mentor to an accident... that's bad... Sorry to hear. |
| 10:13.40 | Gracenotes | [mharrison]: engineers grow up understanding what technical people mean when they misspeak |
| 10:13.58 | [mharrison] | That's not an assumption you can make... |
| 10:14.05 | x` | which cinema in london should i go to? |
| 10:14.21 | [mharrison] | But the main problem with 3000 words, is the volume of apps that orgs have to go through |
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| 10:14.41 | Lennie | thebolt: For that reason my resume fits in one page :) |
| 10:14.45 | mlankhorst | then just pad with badger badger badger ;) |
| 10:14.54 | Lennie | Which apparently is pretty common for US standards |
| 10:14.55 | [mharrison] | Lennie, as it should |
| 10:15.20 | [mharrison] | It's much more difficult to fit your resume in one page than 3 |
| 10:15.40 | Gracenotes | [mharrison]: regarding you talking about developers not writing customer-friendly language, they're somewhat blind to their own ability to correct misleading information |
| 10:15.54 | [mharrison] | And if you can't show your qualifications in a page, maybe you're not qualified enough |
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| 10:16.14 | Gracenotes | ...er, I'm trying to develop a hypothesis here, and I'm not even sure I'm convincing myself. never mind, heh. |
| 10:16.18 | [mharrison] | I say the same when I'm photographing an event...if I can't tell the story within 5 minutes, then I don't need to be there |
| 10:16.34 | Lennie | true |
| 10:16.54 | [mharrison] | Gracenotes, it's not *just* about developer/customer relations...it's the same for developer/developer and customer/customer |
| 10:17.17 | Lennie | <- hates bug reports that are not complete :) |
| 10:17.23 | Gracenotes | it's a wonder we have language at all |
| 10:17.27 | Lennie | there is a template for a bug for a reason, use it |
| 10:17.28 | Lennie | :) |
| 10:17.33 | [mharrison] | lol |
| 10:18.16 | [mharrison] | I suggest everyone manage a team of > 3 people at some point in their lives. It really offers a lot of insight...it doesn't matter what you're managing them to do |
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| 10:18.54 | Gracenotes | apparently human language cropped up shortly after we got our vocal pipes. So we had the mental capacity all along, and the efficiently of the vibrating mouthing sounds is still catching up to our intelligence. |
| 10:19.11 | skbohra | Gracenotes: :) |
| 10:19.12 | kblin | ebo: well, I've got two 2tb disks in a raid setup, I hope one of them outlasts the other long enough for me to get a replacement |
| 10:19.44 | neh | socinfo !next |
| 10:19.44 | socinfo | Error: "!next" is not a valid command. |
| 10:19.47 | [mharrison] | Gracenotes, communicating intent is always difficult...in any capacity |
| 10:19.51 | neh | socinfo next |
| 10:19.51 | socinfo | "next" is Student applications are closed. Be ready to respond to comments on and about your proposal. Accepted student proposals will be announced at http://socghop.appspot.com on April 26: 19:00 UTC. |
| 10:20.01 | Gracenotes | ah, communication. Actually, I'm in a group of 3 people for a game project this semester, and I'm having to end up thinking about scheduling and who's doing what, eschewing the temptation to just write the whole damn thing myself |
| 10:20.29 | [mharrison] | A group of 3 is actually the best number, outside of 1 |
| 10:20.34 | [mharrison] | Any more than that and it's trouble |
| 10:20.41 | [mharrison] | 2 is also trouble |
| 10:20.48 | [mharrison] | Unless you're a dynamite pair |
| 10:20.56 | skbohra | [mharrison]: :) |
| 10:21.29 | Lennie | actually two more then doubles your productivity :P |
| 10:21.34 | [mharrison] | 3 gives you a tie-breaker without a massive difference of opinion |
| 10:21.38 | Lennie | usually of course :) |
| 10:21.38 | [mharrison] | Lennie, hah! |
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| 10:21.59 | skbohra | [mharrison]: here its said that 3 people should never make team :) |
| 10:22.04 | skbohra | an old saying |
| 10:22.06 | [mharrison] | skbohra, interesting |
| 10:22.14 | Gracenotes | "dynamite pair" sounds almost tautologically the same as not-causing-trouble ._. |
| 10:22.57 | [mharrison] | Gracenotes, dynamite pairs are rare, but they happen...such is the case with The Postal Service (band) and the Gorillaz |
| 10:23.27 | [mharrison] | But if the pair is wrong, you get two conflicting opinions with no real leader...which is why 3 is a good number |
| 10:24.01 | merwok | skbohra, where is "here"? |
| 10:24.23 | skbohra | merwok: Rajasthan, India |
| 10:24.51 | merwok | Okay. |
| 10:25.10 | [mharrison] | merwok, with a name like "skbohra", you had to ask? ;) |
| 10:25.26 | merwok | Yes. |
| 10:25.45 | Gracenotes | that doesn't have any implicit nationality to me |
| 10:25.47 | merwok | I don't know first names of every languages, nor am I always sure if a nick is a name or a nick. |
| 10:26.10 | skbohra | [mharrison]: :D |
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| 10:26.34 | [mharrison] | Ah. It does to me, and a /whois skbohra certainly nails it. Again, it's difficult to communicate intention |
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| 10:30.46 | skbohra | India is indeed a large country and we have lots of traditions varying from state to state |
| 10:31.04 | Lennie | I'm off, ttyal :) |
| 10:31.23 | [mharrison] | skbohra, as I've said here before, you have lots of everything =P |
| 10:31.30 | thebolt | well, a problem with teams is that overhead is very non-linear with number of people.. one of my last courses at uni (This fall) we were 8 people in a project |
| 10:31.34 | skbohra | [mharrison]: hahaha |
| 10:31.53 | thebolt | and with 8 people we basically had to devote one guy to leading&admin, then split team into two 4-man groups to get anything done ;) |
| 10:32.00 | skbohra | [mharrison]: indeed 1 billion people |
| 10:32.21 | [mharrison] | More than 1 billion, for sure |
| 10:32.46 | thebolt | [mharrison]: nah, not a lot of space int he middle of cities where you can still be alone ;) |
| 10:32.52 | skbohra | [mharrison]: rest are refugee I am sure |
| 10:32.53 | [mharrison] | lol |
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| 10:33.21 | [mharrison] | But there are plenty of people who don't have access to the channels to even report their existence...1 billion is just an estimate |
| 10:33.27 | skbohra | thebolt: indeed we have lots of space , where I am , its a desert |
| 10:33.45 | thebolt | skbohra: i said in middle fo city ;) but yes, i am aware there are loads of empty space also |
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| 10:34.36 | skbohra | [mharrison]: the worlders largest census program have started here, where each and every india will get a unique id , and smart card |
| 10:34.42 | skbohra | world's* |
| 10:34.48 | thebolt | after all, there are "just" 380/km2 in india |
| 10:34.51 | skbohra | aah types |
| 10:35.16 | merwok | typos? |
| 10:35.20 | thebolt | sweden is 20 :P but I am about to move back to taiwan with 670.. or well, Taipei city with 10000/km^2 :P) |
| 10:35.24 | skbohra | hits his keyboard |
| 10:35.29 | [mharrison] | Can't be each and every...we're doing our 10-year census in the US too, and even in our ~300million country, not everyone gets reported |
| 10:35.43 | merwok | skbohra, maybe hitting the keyboard is not your thing. |
| 10:35.52 | piyushmishra | what document shall be considered as a proof of my enrollment status in my college? |
| 10:36.03 | piyushmishra | wil my I-card do? |
| 10:36.22 | skbohra | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unique_Identification_Authority_of_India |
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| 10:36.48 | [mharrison] | piyushmishra, I believe Google still asks for a transcript |
| 10:36.49 | skbohra | piyushmishra: there is lot of time before thinking about that ;) |
| 10:37.13 | thebolt | [mharrison]: you need some of the swedish top-governmental style.. everyone is assigned an ID-number on birth or immigration.. and there is a central registry of everyone covering pretty much everything (so when in contact with gov. you only give your id number and they get it all :P).. would guess it is less than maybe a few hundred non-registered immigrants wrong ;) |
| 10:37.16 | merwok | I hope there is someone competent in English at my univ's administration. |
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| 10:37.49 | piyushmishra | :P |
| 10:38.00 | piyushmishra | I knw there is lot of time |
| 10:38.08 | piyushmishra | but u dnt knw at wht pace my collg works |
| 10:38.23 | thebolt | piyushmishra: please.. try to write in english |
| 10:38.26 | skbohra | [mharrison]: we are pretty hopeful about this project, |
| 10:38.31 | piyushmishra | n we will have holidays from 28th coz sems end tht day |
| 10:38.34 | thiago_home | they also know where you live |
| 10:38.39 | thiago_home | at least here in Norway they do |
| 10:38.49 | [mharrison] | thebolt, well, we have the social security system, but that doesn't account for immigrants (illegal or otherwise) and other people who just never get one |
| 10:39.00 | thebolt | thiago_home: not only where i live, but pretty much everything ;) |
| 10:39.05 | thiago_home | when I typed my personnummer for a bank account online, they sent me the password by mail |
| 10:39.13 | thebolt | thiago_home: and most of it is public info so i can go and get it for my neighbour as well :P |
| 10:39.15 | thiago_home | oh, the tax records are also open |
| 10:39.22 | thiago_home | you can find out how much anyone earns |
| 10:39.29 | thebolt | thiago_home: i think sweden and norway are pretty much the same in that regards |
| 10:39.38 | piyushmishra | wow nice transparency |
| 10:39.49 | [mharrison] | thiago_home, the US would never go for that |
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| 10:39.56 | thiago_home | no doubt |
| 10:39.57 | thebolt | anything the gov. does or has that is not explicitly protected as secret is public info |
| 10:40.12 | skbohra | thiago_home: India can never , atleast not in next 50 years to come |
| 10:40.17 | thiago_home | it wasn't until I started watching CSI (10 years ago) that I realised that the US has no central DB of people |
| 10:40.18 | piyushmishra | here u can keep looking for the person for whole of ur life and not have a clue of his origins too |
| 10:40.22 | [mharrison] | People confuse their privacy with their security here |
| 10:40.24 | thiago_home | in Brazil, there's such a thing and everyone is fingerprinted |
| 10:40.32 | thebolt | (and most info they have on citizens is not secret) |
| 10:40.56 | mlankhorst | thiago_home: here now too :( government here built a database of fingerprints from everyone |
| 10:41.01 | thiago_home | it really baffled me in the first episodes that they found a fingerprint but couldn't find who it was from |
| 10:41.07 | [mharrison] | lol |
| 10:41.36 | merwok | France is turning into a police state too. |
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| 10:41.43 | mlankhorst | central database with fingerprints of everyone that has requested an id, and having one is mandatory, go figure.. |
| 10:41.47 | merwok | Still, we're not there, and there is backlash. |
| 10:41.58 | thebolt | here they don't have fingerprints |
| 10:42.09 | mlankhorst | and of course storing of all internet data for 6 months |
| 10:42.16 | piyushmishra | we are improving but still way behind |
| 10:42.27 | piyushmishra | its almost impossible to carry out that task here |
| 10:42.28 | thebolt | there is a central DNA bank of ~98% of everyone born after 1970-ish.. but it is at least (luckily) not open to police yet |
| 10:42.36 | merwok | Perhaps in the future we'll have Google Tax and Google Fingerprints. :p |
| 10:42.44 | piyushmishra | haha |
| 10:42.45 | piyushmishra | may be |
| 10:42.49 | thebolt | (it is used for medical research.. pretty unique in the world in that way) |
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| 10:43.35 | mlankhorst | 1 euro bet security agencies have access to it ;) |
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| 10:44.19 | thebolt | mlankhorst: well, the police have in a few cases (through the courts) got access to specific samples from it |
| 10:44.35 | thebolt | (and it was used for identification of victims after the 2004 tsunami) |
| 10:44.55 | thebolt | you can request yourself to be removed though |
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| 10:45.47 | merwok | Opt-out for privacy sucks. |
| 10:45.50 | mlankhorst | here you have mandatory fingerprinting, no chance to be removed... |
| 10:46.39 | [mharrison] | heh, any similar policy in the US would result in mass rioting |
| 10:47.15 | thebolt | mlankhorst: wonder how long it takes before that becomes eu-wide requirement.. |
| 10:47.53 | johang | well, the get a new passport in EU they need fingerprints |
| 10:48.13 | schumaml | [mharrison]: it's easy to keep the masses occupied by something else, though |
| 10:48.26 | thebolt | johang: yea, but iirc there is no central registry of those here (yet) |
| 10:48.52 | schumaml | e.g. do all legislation and other preparations during super bowl |
| 10:49.10 | [mharrison] | lol |
| 10:49.26 | mlankhorst | thebolt: that IS how it works.. |
| 10:49.31 | [mharrison] | Yeah..."register your DNA to win a trip to the super bowl!" that might work |
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| 10:49.44 | mlankhorst | we ask the eu to make it require fingerprints on passports |
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| 10:49.51 | mlankhorst | and we keep a copy for our own database.. |
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| 10:50.43 | merwok | schumaml, here in France gov passes stupid laws during holidays. Works every time. |
| 10:51.20 | schumaml | I thought thed French were good at saying "No!" |
| 10:51.32 | mlankhorst | nah, theyre good at putting fire to cars :) |
| 10:51.32 | schumaml | or "non!", to be precise |
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| 10:52.00 | merwok | Oh, we're good, but then the holidays come and the law passes. |
| 10:52.25 | merwok | Our current government has stopped listening to people, or common sense too. |
| 10:52.36 | merwok | So even if we say no, noone listens. |
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| 10:53.49 | merwok | We're killing our whole education system, we're giving tasks to the local powers without giving the money to do it, we're trying to control the Internet, etc. |
| 10:54.08 | merwok | France is an enterprise now. Short-term profit is all that matters. |
| 10:54.20 | merwok | Universities are becoming that too. |
| 10:54.42 | merwok | We're mimicking USA's worst aspects. |
| 10:54.50 | [mharrison] | lol |
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| 10:57.29 | Dark_Shikari | merwok: worst aspects? nahhhh |
| 10:57.32 | Dark_Shikari | you don't have our bad internet yet |
| 10:57.54 | merwok | I.e.? |
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| 11:05.04 | mlankhorst | merwok: doing even better here :) |
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| 11:05.41 | merwok | mlankhorst, Netherlands? |
| 11:05.47 | mlankhorst | merwok: yes |
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| 11:05.55 | mlankhorst | rekeningrijden ;) |
| 11:06.19 | mlankhorst | installling a bug in every car |
| 11:06.23 | merwok | Aren't you hosting the Pirate Bay? |
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| 11:07.41 | bawr | Hm. Apparently the Polish president along with a number of top brass died in a plane crash earlier today. The things I discover when I check out the news once a month. |
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| 11:08.13 | mlankhorst | although I wonder if it matters anyhow that they know where your car is since they can track you throug cell phone anyhow.. |
| 11:09.16 | thebolt | mlankhorst: guess they add a built-in kill-switch also? :P |
| 11:09.16 | merwok | Or passport RFID chips. |
| 11:09.43 | schumaml | mlankhorst: most people know that cellphones can be tracked |
| 11:09.47 | thebolt | mlankhorst: rfid chips have very limited physical reach though.. |
| 11:09.54 | thebolt | bah, merwok* |
| 11:10.19 | mlankhorst | my drivers license is still valid id, so i can leave my passport and id card at home most of the time |
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| 11:11.30 | bawr | Don't worry, they'll get to that. |
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| 11:14.47 | mlankhorst | its creepy that companies know more about people then other humans can though.. |
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| 11:18.33 | schumaml | groups know more about something than individuals. natural, I'd say... |
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| 11:19.43 | mlankhorst | yeah but how much do you know about that group? |
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| 11:19.57 | schumaml | e.g the #gsoc group know more about gsoc deadline than the indivudual student whoi misses them |
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| 11:20.14 | bawr | I'm not sure who said that, but basically, as soon as it became possible to watch N people with less than N operatives, we were screwed, anyway. |
| 11:20.22 | merwok | And Google knows more about you than I do. |
| 11:20.42 | bawr | And now most of the watching can be done with 0 operatives, thanks to computers. |
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| 11:29.48 | thebolt | the really scary part becomes when some group/corporation/etc knows more about you than you do ;) |
| 11:30.16 | thebolt | I have no problem with friends knowing more about me than I do.. I probably have one or two such friends.. but someone outside that, no thanks |
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| 11:31.07 | maheshs | Is there anyway to see how many proposals organization has recieved? |
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| 11:33.19 | brik | maheshs: don't think so |
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| 11:44.43 | saishiv | hello !! |
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| 11:54.25 | spsneo | are you all able to view your submitted proposals |
| 11:54.56 | smtms | yes, all of us are |
| 11:54.58 | smtms | or at least me |
| 11:55.41 | nmudgal | waves hand in yes ! |
| 11:56.19 | spsneo | I am not able to see my submitted proposal |
| 11:56.28 | spsneo | is it because I didn't make it public? |
| 11:56.40 | smtms | spsneo, making it public has nothing to do with it |
| 11:56.41 | merwok | Are you sure you submitted it? |
| 11:57.03 | nmudgal | spsneo: if it shows in the list my proposals ? |
| 11:57.16 | spsneo | merwok: nmudgal: yeah it shows in the list |
| 11:57.25 | nmudgal | spsneo: then when you click it don't get opened isn't it ? |
| 11:57.33 | spsneo | nmudgal: yeah |
| 11:57.55 | nmudgal | spsneo: that is also a problem with me ! |
| 11:58.06 | dhaun | guys, try a forced reload |
| 11:58.18 | spsneo | nmudgal: thats what I was asking. Atleast I should be able to see the public view of the proposal.. |
| 11:58.29 | dhaun | there was a bug in Melange but it has been reverted - yet some things seem to be cached by the browser |
| 11:58.39 | spsneo | dhaun: cool |
| 11:58.57 | nmudgal | dhaun: Did several times |
| 11:59.13 | nmudgal | dhaun: but i m not even able to see it's public view |
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| 11:59.36 | spsneo | dhaun: thanks it works now |
| 11:59.40 | adimania | nmudgal: spsneo: clear the cache of your browser |
| 11:59.48 | spsneo | nmudgal: you need to do ctrl+f5 |
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| 12:00.02 | spsneo | nmudgal: or ctrl+refresh button |
| 12:00.03 | nmudgal | spsneo: done ;)! |
| 12:00.11 | spsneo | nmudgal: no need to clear all the cache |
| 12:00.22 | nmudgal | spsneo: it's done ! |
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| 12:00.31 | spsneo | nmudgal: :) |
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| 12:00.47 | nmudgal | spsneo: no need to clear the cache ++ |
| 12:01.05 | spsneo | smtms: done ! |
| 12:01.10 | smtms | spsneo, you are god! |
| 12:01.27 | spsneo | smtms: I wish I was ;) |
| 12:01.40 | nmudgal | smtms: define : god :) |
| 12:01.59 | spsneo | nmudgal: don't wave your hand any more ;) |
| 12:02.47 | nmudgal | spsneo: yeah ;) I thought something else ! |
| 12:02.55 | spsneo | nmudgal: :) |
| 12:03.24 | SukhE | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:03.41 | nmudgal | SukhE: try nothing will happen |
| 12:03.55 | smtms | this is a "delete my proposal" now |
| 12:03.58 | SukhE | Ok. Hehe. |
| 12:04.20 | nmudgal | smtms: :) |
| 12:04.23 | SukhE | There is nothing to edit, but I was just curious why it was there. |
| 12:04.50 | nmudgal | SukhE: if you are curious just try it out ! |
| 12:05.18 | SukhE | You already satisfied my curiousity! |
| 12:06.01 | nmudgal | I think a bug in melange or a sacred mistake ! |
| 12:06.20 | smtms | or a trap! |
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| 12:22.44 | adimania | SukhE, Its a black hole, you click on it and your project gets sucked by the gravity!! :D |
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| 12:30.32 | yonij | ? |
| 12:30.43 | swa_k | hello room |
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| 12:41.42 | swa_k | why is the room so quiet?? |
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| 12:44.14 | yonij | no idea |
| 12:44.22 | yonij | are u there |
| 12:44.30 | yonij | hello |
| 12:44.42 | yonij | helloooo |
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| 12:45.19 | danderson | please stop that. |
| 12:45.27 | danderson | nobody is talking because nobody has anything to say. |
| 12:45.31 | nmudgal | swa_k: everyone is quite so busy I think! |
| 12:45.55 | merwok | Or relaxing. |
| 12:46.01 | bawr | Most people are just waiting for results. Nothing to do but wait and obsessively refresh their proposal page, looking for new comments. ;) |
| 12:46.07 | swa_k | yeah i guess |
| 12:46.11 | vegard | haha |
| 12:46.18 | vegard | thought I was the only one ;) |
| 12:46.18 | swa_k | same here, waiting for comments |
| 12:46.36 | vegard | webserver stats, anyone? :-P |
| 12:46.44 | nmudgal | vegard: no you are not the only one me too waiting |
| 12:46.45 | pkuhad | should we be in touch with mentors and discussing ideas or wait for comments first |
| 12:46.46 | bawr | Heh. |
| 12:46.58 | swa_k | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:47.21 | nmudgal | swa_k: which org ? |
| 12:47.27 | bawr | That seems... improbable. |
| 12:47.32 | swa_k | Berkman at harvard univ |
| 12:47.35 | yonij | any one applied for berkman |
| 12:47.53 | yonij | great |
| 12:47.53 | swa_k | i did |
| 12:47.59 | tag617 | bawr: are you able to access your proposal page, after the deadline passed. |
| 12:48.15 | bawr | tag617: Yep. Can't edit it, naturally. |
| 12:48.17 | merwok | I'm not compulsively refreshing, because I'm subscribed for updates. :) |
| 12:48.22 | yonij | swa_k:me too apllied 4 that |
| 12:48.26 | nmudgal | tag617: forced refresh will do the thing for you |
| 12:48.35 | swa_k | cool so did u hear nythng frm thm?? |
| 12:48.39 | bawr | merwok: I'm subscribed *and* compulsively refreshing my inbox. |
| 12:48.41 | merwok | Also, the mentor writes emails to students. |
| 12:48.47 | bawr | So you know, it can be both. |
| 12:48.57 | swa_k | @yonij what was ur project abt?? |
| 12:48.59 | merwok | bawr, I have an applet that checks mail regularly. |
| 12:49.17 | merwok | (Real IMAP mail, not some inefficient webmail :) |
| 12:49.21 | bawr | So do I. :) |
| 12:49.43 | bawr | Do you think I let that stop me? :) |
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| 12:49.56 | merwok | I'm idleing in the project's IRC rooms and fixing bugs. |
| 12:50.01 | merwok | No stress here. :) |
| 12:50.49 | lolfrenz | you guys know that you can subscribe to receive updates via mail when comments arrive, right? |
| 12:51.20 | Ophiuchi | lolfrenz: doesn't help with the jitters. aren't they cute? :)) |
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| 12:52.15 | nmudgal | lolfrenz: yup I think I know |
| 12:53.01 | bawr | :d |
| 12:57.03 | x` | hahah |
| 12:57.07 | x` | MrSmellySocks |
| 12:57.43 | x` | what's the mood like here? |
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| 13:00.31 | pdani | extension? |
| 13:01.07 | merwok | !extension |
| 13:01.07 | socinfo | "extension" is The deadline WAS NOT extended and WILL NOT be. Not even for you. |
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| 13:08.33 | yonij | any one applied for berkman |
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| 13:10.56 | merwok | Why does this question pop up every hour? |
| 13:11.38 | vegard | was only 21 minutes, not 60 |
| 13:11.50 | nmudgal | merwok: not at an hour but after few minutes |
| 13:12.09 | merwok | I was doing a mean :p |
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| 13:12.40 | schumaml | a useful question would include what someone who applied to berkman is needed for |
| 13:13.10 | danderson | experiments to create a new race of genetically superior berkman applicants? |
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| 13:13.17 | nmudgal | schumaml: bingo ! |
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| 13:16.21 | yonij | not a bad idea |
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| 13:17.46 | vsh | when trying to edit my proposal melange says "error: this page is inactive" |
| 13:17.53 | vsh | why? |
| 13:18.02 | d4ddi0 | berkman applicant: your horrific mutated death, while tragic, will help us to build a generation of supermen. |
| 13:18.02 | merwok | Deadline's over. |
| 13:18.38 | vsh | did not know deadline applies to editing as well |
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| 13:19.00 | vsh | wishes hed done editing before hand :( |
| 13:19.13 | swa_k | it does |
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| 13:19.35 | nmudgal | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:20.11 | d4ddi0 | vsh: now you can do editing by proxy through comments, or pestering the mentor and hoping they go for it :) |
| 13:20.20 | swa_k | no we can nmudgal |
| 13:20.21 | merwok | vsh, I somehow understood the same thing, that we could edit after the deadline, but learned otherwise yesterday. |
| 13:20.26 | swa_k | i mean cant |
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| 13:20.52 | nmudgal | swa_k: but you said it does |
| 13:21.01 | vsh | seems like they should mention it somewhere |
| 13:21.18 | vsh | d4ddi0: thats what ive done for now |
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| 13:21.33 | swa_k | actually a frnd of mine heard frm his mentor and was tld to edit his proposal by monday |
| 13:21.36 | vsh | its just odd with a "[TODO]" in the middle of the application :) |
| 13:24.16 | swa_k | no comments yet :( |
| 13:24.26 | vsh | shouldnt they also have some sort of markup and monospaced fonts by default? |
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| 13:25.09 | nmudgal | swa_k: may be he meant using proxy through comments ! |
| 13:25.47 | d4ddi0 | yeah. You can still ad comments to your own proposal |
| 13:25.54 | d4ddi0 | /ad/add/ |
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| 13:45.57 | Ian_Corne | !next |
| 13:45.57 | socinfo | "next" is Student applications are closed. Be ready to respond to comments on and about your proposal. Accepted student proposals will be announced at http://socghop.appspot.com on April 26: 19:00 UTC. |
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| 13:54.58 | mmadia | !logs |
| 13:54.58 | socinfo | "logs" is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc |
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| 14:10.29 | anirvana | !stats |
| 14:10.29 | socinfo | "stats" is http://www.lfowles.org/irc/gsoc/stats.htm |
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| 14:13.45 | mkarnicki | those stats are fun :D |
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| 14:19.15 | SRabbelier | Could everyone please have a look at socghop pages that have lists right now? (such as http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2010 ) |
| 14:20.15 | Ophiuchi | SRabbelier: can't open proposals is back |
| 14:20.24 | Ophiuchi | SRabbelier: with the better score sorting |
| 14:20.38 | SRabbelier | Ophiuchi: what happens when you try to open a proposal? |
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| 14:21.10 | Ophiuchi | SRabbelier: I get the g is undefined error (firefox here) |
| 14:21.26 | Ophiuchi | SRabbelier: ie 'normally visible' just nothing |
| 14:21.35 | SRabbelier | aaah |
| 14:21.38 | Ophiuchi | Line 10 |
| 14:21.39 | SRabbelier | it's not until you _click_ a row |
| 14:21.40 | SRabbelier | I see |
| 14:22.35 | SRabbelier | Ophiuchi: thank you! |
| 14:24.08 | Ophiuchi | SRabbelier: np, pleased to be of help |
| 14:24.37 | SRabbelier | Ophiuchi: :D |
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| 14:24.57 | x` | do we get to see any proposals stats? |
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| 14:26.14 | SRabbelier | x`: yup |
| 14:26.38 | SRabbelier | x`: during the next week there'll be a Melange hackathon, hopefully the statistics framework will get integrated during that time |
| 14:27.39 | x` | nods agreeably while eating a white chocolate cookie |
| 14:27.50 | x` | thanks for the info SRabbelier |
| 14:29.27 | SRabbelier | x`: very tasteh :) |
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| 14:38.56 | madewokherd | is there a guide somewhere to scoring proposals, some criteria perhaps? |
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| 14:40.19 | bawr | Depends on the org. |
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| 14:41.30 | madewokherd | surely there are some common things to look for |
| 14:41.40 | madewokherd | like "Is the problem explained/defined clearly?" |
| 14:41.57 | kblin | !mentorguide |
| 14:41.57 | socinfo | Error: "mentorguide" is not a valid command. |
| 14:42.00 | kblin | hm |
| 14:42.04 | kblin | hang on |
| 14:42.27 | kblin | http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code/wiki/AdviceforMentors |
| 14:42.34 | kblin | madewokherd: ^^^^ |
| 14:44.08 | kblin | then again, this doesn't really focus on the scoring much |
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| 14:46.25 | madewokherd | reads |
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| 14:48.11 | yanglang | are you guys able to edit proposal at this moment? |
| 14:48.57 | bawr | No. All you can do not is add comments. |
| 14:49.18 | kblin | !edit |
| 14:49.19 | socinfo | "edit" is You can submit your application early and edit it up until the deadline (April 9). Once the deadline passes, you cannot edit it. Instead, leave comments. |
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| 14:49.52 | bawr | madewokherd: I believe in most orgs you could get away with something extremely bare-bones, provided you talked with them for the last two weeks. |
| 14:49.57 | bawr | So again, it all depends. |
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| 15:18.29 | Afuna | g/wc |
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| 15:46.40 | gevaerts | Are students automatically subscribed to email notifications on comments? |
| 15:47.05 | danderson | not to my knowledge. I think getting spammed by email is opt-in. |
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| 15:49.34 | dho_plan9 | thats somewhat unfortunate imo |
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| 15:49.47 | dho_plan9 | but ive said that b4 |
| 15:50.00 | dho_plan9 | (forgive dumb typing, lacerated pinky last nite) |
| 15:50.01 | bawr | Yeah, it really should default to subscribing. |
| 15:50.06 | bawr | Ouch. |
| 15:50.14 | gevaerts | yes, it can cause unnecessary delays or even total lack of response... |
| 15:50.28 | dho_plan9 | gevaerts: thats been my experience |
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| 15:50.58 | kblin | !bugs |
| 15:50.58 | socinfo | "bugs" is Melange bugs are tracked at http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/list, you can file a new bug at http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/entry |
| 15:51.01 | dho_plan9 | yep |
| 15:51.04 | kblin | and patches welcome |
| 15:51.20 | dho_plan9 | puts neosporin on his patched pinky |
| 15:51.28 | dho_plan9 | 7 hours in the er last night |
| 15:51.40 | kblin | ouch |
| 15:51.44 | dho_plan9 | protip: er in baltimore on friday night = long wait unless youve been shot or stabbed |
| 15:52.09 | bawr | dho_plan9: How did you manage to mangle your pinky, anyway? |
| 15:52.11 | dho_plan9 | urgent care next time instead |
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| 15:52.15 | dho_plan9 | eh |
| 15:52.37 | dho_plan9 | was at the bar, did an irish car bomb, shot got stuck, i tapped the glass on the bar trying to get the shot glass out and the glass shattered. |
| 15:52.49 | maheshs | Nice :D |
| 15:53.04 | maheshs | :P |
| 15:53.07 | bawr | Ouch. |
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| 15:53.53 | kblin | dho_plan9: bad day for mentors today, it seems. one of my mentors got out of hospital this morning but still isn't fit to mentor for some time |
| 15:54.26 | gevaerts | decides to be careful |
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| 15:55.37 | dho_plan9 | 9 sutures. pics on facebook :P |
| 15:55.51 | dho_plan9 | kblin: thats awful, what happened? |
| 15:56.02 | tzikis | dho_plan9: why didn't you stab yourself a bit while waiting? |
| 15:56.17 | tzikis | you get in, and you tell them to fix the pinky while they're at it :P |
| 15:56.23 | dho_plan9 | i dont trust myself with my left hand and i fucked my right pinky :) |
| 15:56.39 | kblin | biking accident, as far as I understood one arm broken, one arm bruised |
| 15:56.40 | danderson | dho_plan9: (about the email notifications) thing is, if it were opt-out, I can bet you a lot that everyone would be up in arms about google not respecting people's privacy or whatever |
| 15:57.08 | danderson | opt-out is conceptually the right tool here, but people are very particular about what ends up in their mailboxes, sometimes irrationally so. |
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| 15:57.33 | gevaerts | danderson: but melange is not google, so there's no problem :) |
| 15:57.42 | danderson | no, but GSoC is |
| 15:57.52 | kblin | gevaerts: some people seem less clear on that |
| 15:57.59 | kblin | thread-deletes |
| 15:58.05 | dho_plan9 | people are silly. i understand |
| 15:58.23 | danderson | when people get annoyed at getting email from the GSoC program, they won't stop and think that this is actually an open source application which google happens to use |
| 15:58.33 | danderson | they'll just go apeshit about how google emailed them without opt-in |
| 15:58.35 | dho_plan9 | kblin: yuck, glad it wasnt worse |
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| 15:59.21 | dho_plan9 | maybe when i feel more like typing i will make a more obvious button |
| 15:59.22 | dho_plan9 | otoh |
| 15:59.29 | dho_plan9 | i dont know what students see... |
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| 16:00.01 | kblin | dho_plan9: well, you can rune a test instance on your own box |
| 16:00.38 | drt24 | dho_plan9: it is a fairly obvious button |
| 16:00.46 | drt24 | I saw it :-) |
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| 16:01.27 | dho_plan9 | ok |
| 16:01.28 | kblin | dho_plan9: I assume it's about as prominent as ours |
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| 16:01.43 | dho_plan9 | i've never seen it :) |
| 16:01.48 | dho_plan9 | so |
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| 16:02.27 | dho_plan9 | i think part of that is that i never remember to until its too late since i figure that that's how the app would work neway |
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| 16:03.16 | gevaerts | Well, a mail to our project dev list should do the trick. Students that also don't read that are hopeless anyway :) |
| 16:03.52 | dho_plan9 | true |
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| 16:13.39 | efgpinto | hi |
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| 16:41.48 | yonij | is there anyone who knows pearl/ |
| 16:41.52 | yonij | ? |
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| 16:48.01 | Kosma | is reluctant to answer |
| 16:48.22 | Kosma | last time i said 'yes' I had to fix a gigantic system written years ago ;p |
| 16:49.03 | sreich | haha |
| 16:49.21 | anirvana | :D |
| 16:49.29 | AshishG | :D |
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| 16:53.36 | kblin | pearl is an electronics web store |
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| 16:54.31 | Kosma | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_%28disambiguation%29 |
| 16:54.35 | Kosma | just pick one |
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| 16:54.49 | d4ddi0 | One of my co-workers regretted for years putting C on his resume, because he got sent from the Windows team to my team (old C codebase on AIX). |
| 16:55.32 | d4ddi0 | And thats a step better the PERL, depending who you ask ;P |
| 16:55.53 | Kosma | curse of competency + legacy code = wasted life |
| 16:56.00 | d4ddi0 | hahahha |
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| 16:56.26 | kblin | d4ddi0: but C code has a better chance of being readable |
| 16:56.40 | Kosma | kblin: well said |
| 16:56.52 | mlankhorst | kblin: unless you start doing magic with pointers ;) |
| 16:57.07 | Kosma | although the German C dialect is the very thing that drives programmers mad |
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| 16:57.20 | kblin | mlankhorst: well, a better chance, that's all I said |
| 16:57.23 | jkwood | No, C will still be more readable than Perl. |
| 16:57.25 | Kosma | char Puffer[100]; |
| 16:57.26 | kblin | Kosma: German C? |
| 16:57.56 | Kosma | and a huge ascii-art 'Fertig!' banner at the end of a successful compilation |
| 16:58.05 | Kosma | the job offer said nothing about German... |
| 16:58.35 | bawr | Kosma: German-C? I shudder to think of it. |
| 16:59.32 | jkwood | -EGERMANC |
| 16:59.45 | bawr | :D |
| 16:59.50 | kblin | Kosma: but just imagine this in perl code :) |
| 17:00.22 | Kosma | apart from 'use strict' and 'use warnings', Perl should also have 'use pbp' |
| 17:00.28 | Kosma | pbp is Perl Best Practices book |
| 17:00.29 | neXyon | !next |
| 17:00.29 | socinfo | "next" is Student applications are closed. Be ready to respond to comments on and about your proposal. Accepted student proposals will be announced at http://socghop.appspot.com on April 26: 19:00 UTC. |
| 17:00.36 | bawr | ARRRGH. Now I have been officially reduced to someone like this kid in your car constantly asking "Are we there yet?", and it hasn't even been a day so far. |
| 17:01.08 | thebolt | evening |
| 17:01.09 | tzikis | hahhaha bawr i feel ya |
| 17:01.38 | Kosma | the German-C really defeated me. I quit that job after 21 days |
| 17:01.38 | kblin | hey thebolt |
| 17:02.03 | kblin | Kosma: %s/Puffer/buffer/g |
| 17:02.16 | Kosma | kblin: the comments were German, too. |
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| 17:03.01 | Kosma | the entire system was also designed by Germans, which meant it had a few million LOC, took 2 hours to compile on a state-of-the-art machine and generated a 512KB file |
| 17:03.12 | bawr | What. |
| 17:03.18 | d4ddi0 | I wonder if machine translated comments would be any more useful that the original. |
| 17:03.33 | thebolt | heh, i have a code-base i am using a bit for prototyping in my thesis work that is written in C, in german (Both code and comments) for an embedded system.. |
| 17:03.33 | d4ddi0 | Considering the uselessness of a lot of C comments... |
| 17:03.49 | bawr | We need translators that understand code. Namely, fuzzy-match words even when the majority of vowels are removed. :) |
| 17:03.49 | thebolt | another tool is in english, but comments in chinese :P |
| 17:04.04 | Kosma | d4ddi0: would you EVER want to translate "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn." to English? |
| 17:04.18 | gevaerts | suspects that the usefulness of German comments depends on how well one knows German |
| 17:04.45 | bawr | x++; // x auseininkrementiren |
| 17:04.47 | bawr | ;) |
| 17:04.51 | d4ddi0 | facepalmss |
| 17:05.01 | kblin | Kosma: that's not german, though |
| 17:05.59 | Kosma | facepalms too |
| 17:06.05 | Kosma | kblin: it's close enough |
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| 17:07.02 | kblin | Kosma: this might be the time to point out that I'm german :) |
| 17:07.37 | bawr | kblin: *do* the Germans have a verb that's roughly like byoneincrement, then? :) |
| 17:08.39 | kblin | nope |
| 17:08.53 | Kosma | facepalms at himself |
| 17:09.02 | bawr | Aww. |
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| 17:10.44 | baer | German is only able to concatenate nouns ;) |
| 17:11.00 | Kosma | gevaerts: I studied German for five years, actually |
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| 17:11.13 | Kosma | and still don't get it |
| 17:11.14 | r0bby|android | kblin: damn you Germans |
| 17:11.24 | bawr | baer: In that case, I need to rephrase my question. |
| 17:11.30 | r0bby|android | :) |
| 17:11.42 | bawr | kblin: *do* the Germans have a noun that's roughly like byoneincrementation? ;) |
| 17:11.59 | Kosma | or, is it possible to concatenate one? ;) |
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| 17:12.44 | gevaerts | Kosma: it's not possible to concatenate one noun |
| 17:13.13 | d4ddi0 | I prefer ++x to x++ in c. Its usually what you mean anyway. |
| 17:13.38 | r0bby|android | doesn't know C |
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| 17:15.08 | bawr | I went from C to Python, and I still like C. |
| 17:15.32 | Kosma | Python is useful, but crazy |
| 17:15.57 | bawr | Actually, it's quite consistent. Much more than Ruby, anyway. :) |
| 17:16.35 | bawr | Not even speaking of Perl, heh. |
| 17:17.05 | d4ddi0 | C has a certain elegance. It does make you work harder to get to the same place as Python, though |
| 17:17.08 | Kosma | >>> x=10; y="5"; x>y |
| 17:17.09 | Kosma | False |
| 17:17.31 | bawr | Kosma: And? You're comparing a string to an integer. |
| 17:17.32 | Kosma | this single Python "feature" is almost a showstopper |
| 17:17.47 | bawr | There are very good reasons why this doesn't give you an exception. |
| 17:17.54 | d4ddi0 | ruby has made you weak, old man |
| 17:18.08 | Kosma | but why the hell does it compare the type names lexicographically? |
| 17:18.15 | Kosma | to piss you off? |
| 17:18.18 | bawr | What? |
| 17:18.21 | kblin | d4ddi0: ++x and x++ is the same if used as a single command |
| 17:18.23 | Kosma | to make debugging impossible? |
| 17:18.42 | Kosma | bawr: x<y because "int" < "string" |
| 17:18.47 | bawr | No. |
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| 17:18.59 | d4ddi0 | kblin: right. But most of the people who put x++ everywhere have NO IDEA it is postincrementing |
| 17:19.32 | Kosma | bawr: "Note that comparing objects of different types is legal. The outcome is deterministic but arbitrary: the types are ordered by their name." |
| 17:19.53 | d4ddi0 | and get into trouble when they try to write longer statement with a ++ inside somewhere |
| 17:19.54 | Kosma | WHY? |
| 17:19.56 | kimelto | morning! |
| 17:20.17 | bawr | I stand corrected, but to answer your question... so that generalised sorting works. |
| 17:20.26 | bawr | For one example, anyway. |
| 17:20.55 | Kosma | well, one of the Python proverbs says 'everything should be explicit rather than implicit' |
| 17:21.25 | dreimark | Kosma: imort this |
| 17:21.25 | bawr | To be more precise, so that [1,2,3,"a","d","zxccxz",23].sort() does something useful. Ideally, of course, you don't want a list like that at all. |
| 17:21.37 | dreimark | s/imort/import/ |
| 17:21.53 | bawr | Kosma: I have to say, this could be done better arguably, but frankly, it's never been an issue for me. |
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| 17:22.54 | d4ddi0 | Kosma: What you just described is pretty unintuitive. but better than a segfault or something |
| 17:22.59 | jkwood | d4ddi0: Define "most people." |
| 17:23.10 | Kosma | d4ddi0: it should really throw an exception |
| 17:23.34 | Kosma | d4ddi0: I've never in my entire programmers life needed to sort things by the type |
| 17:23.34 | d4ddi0 | jkwood: most people == most people who think they know C |
| 17:23.51 | jkwood | And you've done an exhaustive study of C coders? |
| 17:24.11 | d4ddi0 | no, just the code I've been left behind to fix |
| 17:24.34 | jkwood | I've seen more useless or incorrect pre-decrements in the last week than I have ever seen useless or incorrect post-decrements. |
| 17:24.50 | bawr | Kosma: It's arbitrary so that sorting works, not because sorting by type name is useful. I'd prefer an exception, but I've seen valid uses of this. |
| 17:25.13 | Kosma | bawr: but if explicit is better, why not just express this? |
| 17:25.40 | bawr | Again, not disagreeing with you. Just saying it's not really a big problem. |
| 17:25.46 | bawr | For me, anyway. |
| 17:25.56 | Kosma | well, it's probably not encountered often |
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| 17:26.08 | Kosma | although I've not written enough Python code to verify this |
| 17:26.11 | d4ddi0 | jkwood: My assertion is that useless is better than incorrect, and I can't think of a lot of giant exploding pre-increment bugs I've fixed |
| 17:26.47 | d4ddi0 | unless some fool is going through code he didn't write an dchanging them arbitrarily :) |
| 17:26.47 | Kosma | d4ddi0: well, in fact using a post-decrement in a wrong way is pretty easy to detect |
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| 17:26.58 | bawr | Kosma: Write a PEP to make object monkey-patchable. |
| 17:27.05 | bawr | Then you'll get to override this. ;) |
| 17:27.23 | bawr | Well, in Python 3k, anyway. ;) |
| 17:27.28 | jkwood | Us: "Sort this array." |
| 17:28.19 | Kosma | d4ddi0: if you're asking for trouble, you shall be punished |
| 17:28.21 | jkwood | Student: "for (int i=0; i < array.length(); ++i)" |
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| 17:29.35 | bawr | jkwood: Uhh, wouldn't that work the same? I thought the third part of for() is guaranteed to be executed after each iteration. |
| 17:29.36 | jkwood | It's just as easy to use either one incorrectly. |
| 17:30.15 | jkwood | bawr: Not when they assume i has been incremented in their sort. |
| 17:30.26 | bawr | Ah, there's that. |
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| 17:31.03 | jkwood | It's not used incorrectly, per se, it just tends to confuse the student. |
| 17:31.04 | d4ddi0 | ugh. ok I get it |
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| 17:31.48 | bawr | Well, teaching them C++ will only result in confusion, either way. ;P |
| 17:32.08 | jkwood | Somewhat like the rather clever fella who explicitly handled 2 conditions without explicitly commenting that the third condition was implicitly handled, and wondered why I insisted his code didn't work. |
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| 17:33.09 | jkwood | Students: Make useful comments, please. If you do something clever, note it. If your comments are just a reiteration of the syntax in English, you're doing it wrong. |
| 17:35.03 | jkwood | } //rant |
| 17:35.43 | thebolt | jkwood: using ;++i or ;i++ does not change anything in that case |
| 17:35.53 | Kosma | jkwood: the best way to learn to comment is to maintain your own code for some time |
| 17:36.05 | bawr | thebolt: It doesn't, but jkwood explained how it's confusing. |
| 17:36.10 | thebolt | jkwood: the third part is executed after each iteration, no matter what is in there.. the post/pre is only with relation to the other operations |
| 17:36.13 | thebolt | bawr: i don't see how it is |
| 17:36.23 | Kosma | thebolt: it doesn't matter |
| 17:36.26 | bawr | If someone barely knows C, it can be. :) |
| 17:36.47 | Kosma | but if you saw that code in a bigger program, you would probably start wondering why is it written this way |
| 17:37.11 | thebolt | no? i would always use ++i.. as I also code c++ and for C++ it can make a difference if i for example is an iterator |
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| 17:37.26 | thebolt | (pre-increment saves construction of a temporary for c++ iterators) |
| 17:37.45 | Kosma | aah, the C++ |
| 17:37.46 | jkwood | thebolt: Fully half of all the problems I've ever seen (if not more) in people's code comes from their not thinking through just what their code does, making an assumption, and being wrong. |
| 17:37.59 | thebolt | jkwood: that I can agree to :) |
| 17:38.11 | bawr | jkwood: Give students lots and lots of paper, and force them to use it. |
| 17:38.32 | jkwood | bawr: I agree. My first recommendation of programming tools is a composition notebook and a pencil. |
| 17:38.59 | bawr | I mean, I can do a lot of pointer arithmetic in my head okay, but I'd rather not. |
| 17:39.19 | jkwood | When trying to solve a problem, that's what I use before ever touching an editor. |
| 17:39.38 | thebolt | depends on how hard the problem si, but yes.. pen and paper is terribly useful |
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| 17:39.56 | bawr | Yup. Paper is my #1 design / debug assistant. |
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| 17:40.24 | Kosma | thebolt: not really, a big problem can be partitioned into modules on paper easily |
| 17:40.37 | thebolt | Kosma: i was more refering to small problems |
| 17:40.53 | thebolt | small problems you can usually come up with the full solution at once / as you go along |
| 17:41.04 | Kosma | if a problem is small enough to be contained in your head as whole, there's no need to write it on paper |
| 17:41.21 | jkwood | You can never minimize your code so much that bugs can't be introduced. |
| 17:41.32 | thebolt | i tend to use pen and paper quite a bit when CADing too.. just quickly drawing something usually helps finding the hard parts so you can focus on those |
| 17:42.00 | kblin | yay, finally my NAS is set up :) |
| 17:42.13 | Kosma | !when |
| 17:42.13 | socinfo | "when" is later |
| 17:42.17 | thebolt | kblin: :) |
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| 17:44.33 | Kosma | by the way, have you heard news from Poland? |
| 17:44.44 | thiago_home | yes |
| 17:45.16 | Kosma | it's so shocking we can hardly believe it |
| 17:47.00 | thiago_home | I imagine |
| 17:48.24 | bawr | I can believe it. I can't, however, bring myself to care much. I only found out by accident, I don't do news usually. |
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| 17:56.27 | kblin | Kosma: it sure is shocking, but to be completely honest, I'm more shocked about the other people on the plane than about the polish president |
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| 17:58.17 | zooko | Folks is it still the case that the Melange-based site is broken? |
| 17:58.30 | zooko | I can't seem to view reviews on any proposals, but I'm not sure if it is just a different UI that I don't understand or a bug. |
| 17:58.34 | jkwood | zooko: Nope. F5 to get a working version. |
| 17:58.46 | jkwood | (forced browser refresh) |
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| 18:01.43 | adimania | zooko: if F5 does not work, try Ctrl+F5 |
| 18:04.19 | anirvana | can i view the proposals which other students have submitted ? |
| 18:04.34 | jkwood | anirvana: Only if they give you a link to it and make it public. |
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| 18:04.59 | jkwood | Of course, many of our students also posted their applications to our mailing list or forums, so YMMV. |
| 18:05.00 | anirvana | ok thanks |
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| 18:14.50 | Gracenotes | also, you can paste formatted text into Google Docs and have that display nicely |
| 18:15.38 | Kosma | kblin: no one liked the president |
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| 18:19.16 | kblin | Kosma: well, someone did elect him, right? :) |
| 18:19.31 | Kosma | he was controversial right from the start |
| 18:19.41 | maheshs | how to make up link to proposal if the user has made it public? |
| 18:19.52 | Kosma | after all, you don't see twins ruling a country very often, don't you? |
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| 18:23.02 | kkb110 | did anybody here apply gstreamer? |
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| 18:24.17 | swa_k | anyone applied for berkman?? |
| 18:26.17 | kkb110 | Yes~ I am the only person applied gstreamer! :D |
| 18:26.38 | maheshs | kkb110: how do you know you are the only one? :) |
| 18:26.47 | kkb110 | because nobody replied :) |
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| 18:27.14 | Gracenotes | I don't see 3000 people in the channel :o |
| 18:27.41 | sttwister | I guess that would make me the only person that ever went to Mars! :D |
| 18:27.47 | kkb110 | I believe that people here are the most strongly motivated people among the entire applicants pool |
| 18:28.42 | kkb110 | so I don't care much about the rest. |
| 18:28.43 | jkwood | kkb110: I think perhaps some of our most motivated people don't even know this channel exists. |
| 18:29.07 | kkb110 | Im just kidding lol |
| 18:30.02 | gevaerts | Only the most strongly motivated people are awake right now |
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| 18:30.22 | maco | at 230pm on a saturday? |
| 18:31.25 | fat0ss | <PROTECTED> |
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| 18:33.40 | Kosma | maco: at 830pm on a saturday? |
| 18:33.58 | maco | ah yeah european time its probably dancy party time |
| 18:34.04 | maco | here its picnic in the park time |
| 18:34.21 | yonij | has any one applied for a webcrawler |
| 18:34.53 | CiswatiC | its am here... |
| 18:35.11 | CiswatiC | i meant 12 am here.. |
| 18:35.27 | Kosma | maco: national mourning time, actually |
| 18:35.28 | YuviPanda | 12 AM here too. We must be from around the same place, CiswatiC ;) :P |
| 18:35.38 | Kosma | YuviPanda: maybe you're the same person? :) |
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| 18:36.06 | YuviPanda | Kosma: totally, I herd India's population is around 1 or 2 ;) |
| 18:36.24 | Kosma | 1.499999999999999999998472 on a Pentium :-) |
| 18:36.45 | CiswatiC | m Indian too |
| 18:36.46 | maheshs | Everyone ( including me) seems to be curious of how many applications there intrested organization recieved. Why not to make this public :( |
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| 18:37.01 | maheshs | +1 me. An Indian. |
| 18:37.10 | yonij | me too |
| 18:37.28 | maco | its noon-ish in google-ville |
| 18:37.37 | CiswatiC | does the counting end? |
| 18:38.57 | kkb110 | because the acceptance rate will be about 1:6, I guess only 60 people here can actually participate this summer. |
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| 18:39.49 | mlankhorst | kkb110: nah, statistics lie :) |
| 18:39.51 | gevaerts | kkb110: that's assuming everyone here is a student |
| 18:40.06 | mlankhorst | AND assuming the people who visit this channel dont have a smaller chance to get rejected ;) |
| 18:40.18 | maco | im a student but im here as a mentor |
| 18:40.18 | kkb110 | I see |
| 18:40.20 | dberkholz | did anyone say how many people applied? with how many total proposals? |
| 18:40.33 | kkb110 | for last year I think it was about 6000? |
| 18:40.37 | gevaerts | Well, they're obviously too busy on irc to do real work, so they're more likely to be rejected ;) |
| 18:41.26 | YuviPanda | or maybe they consider it important enough to waste time on IRC on :P |
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| 18:42.05 | CiswatiC | everyone over here sounds praying, just hoping to get lucky, my be the others who are out r working. |
| 18:42.10 | mlankhorst | and people doing one liners.. |
| 18:42.28 | kkb110 | maco: then can you see how many students applied to your organization? |
| 18:42.34 | maheshs | getting bored.. |
| 18:42.45 | CiswatiC | sorry its may be. |
| 18:42.51 | yonij | it was actually 7000 |
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| 18:44.23 | kkb110 | I guess about 50% of the entire proposal goes really popular few organization |
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| 18:44.38 | maco | kkb110: no, im going to co-mentor since being-a-student has prevented me from being able to do the paperworky parts that come before summer |
| 18:45.13 | kkb110 | I see.. |
| 18:45.48 | dberkholz | kblin: around 1/3 of the slots go to the top 15 organizations |
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| 18:45.56 | CiswatiC | how many proposals are there for plan9? anybody has the idea? |
| 18:45.58 | dberkholz | at least, that's how it went last year |
| 18:45.59 | kblin | dberkholz: hm? |
| 18:46.06 | dberkholz | kblin: sorry, meant kkb110 |
| 18:46.11 | kkb110 | how did you get the information? |
| 18:46.14 | AshishG | i think it works |
| 18:46.22 | kblin | dberkholz: yeah, just read the backlog :) |
| 18:46.37 | dberkholz | kkb110: i looked at which organizations got projects from last year and made a histogram |
| 18:46.46 | kkb110 | aha |
| 18:46.48 | akashv | #gsoc-india |
| 18:46.54 | akashv | sorry |
| 18:47.02 | adimania | kkb110: Last year 3500 students applied 5900 applications |
| 18:48.00 | mlankhorst | also is it just me or is the applet slow? :( |
| 18:48.04 | int3 | dberkholz: care to share that histogram? (: |
| 18:48.09 | kblin | mlankhorst: must be you |
| 18:48.23 | dberkholz | int3: http://dev.gentoo.org/~dberkholz/gsoc/slots/slot_allocations_2009_histogram.png |
| 18:48.30 | kblin | mlankhorst: I'm currently triaging the samba proposals for easier digestion of the CSV list later |
| 18:48.55 | int3 | dberkholz: nice, thanks |
| 18:49.20 | kblin | dberkholz: hm, but at least joomla! is out of the game this year ;) |
| 18:50.02 | dberkholz | and mysql |
| 18:50.15 | kkb110 | dberkholz: but it seems this doesn't show how many applied for each organization? |
| 18:50.23 | gevaerts | is intrigued by the lack of 8-slot orgs |
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| 18:50.51 | dberkholz | kkb110: nope. that would be a nice set of numbers to have, and i'm working on getting it. |
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| 18:51.18 | kkb110 | but anyways, it's useful thanks :) |
| 18:51.28 | int3 | dberkholz: how did you get your histogram data? it's not released on the gsoc site, is it |
| 18:51.41 | mlankhorst | which reminds me, need to mentor a student this year just for fun :) |
| 18:51.48 | dberkholz | you can get the # of successful projects for each organization if you go to their page from last year |
| 18:52.01 | dberkholz | my data is a little different but not far off |
| 18:52.45 | int3 | ah, they do have a list of accepted student projects from 2009 |
| 18:52.58 | *** join/#gsoc jbartosik (~jbartosik@aata216.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 18:53.00 | int3 | on the gsoc 2009 page |
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| 18:54.40 | YuviPanda | if someone submitted an application to Mono to work on MonoTouch, I wonder how they're feelin right now |
| 18:54.54 | maco | goes to fill out forms on melange |
| 18:55.02 | kblin | what the? |
| 18:55.30 | kblin | we've got a student who's currently working full-time in the military? |
| 18:56.33 | mlankhorst | O_O |
| 18:56.36 | dberkholz | YuviPanda: they'd better change their project to be "turn monotouch into an c#->obj-c compiler" |
| 18:56.46 | mlankhorst | does military academy count ? ;) |
| 18:57.05 | YuviPanda | dberkholz: that's forbidden too, btw. |
| 18:57.34 | YuviPanda | dberkholz: you *have* to write your code ini C/C++/Obj-C or you're out |
| 18:58.04 | gevaerts | thinks that projects that depend on the goodwill of external companies were a bad idea to start with |
| 18:58.27 | kblin | mlankhorst: no idea, actually |
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| 18:59.09 | maco | wow kde got a LOT of slots |
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| 18:59.50 | kkb110 | kde beat gnome |
| 18:59.51 | Ivanovic | maco: ehm, slot numbers are not out yet |
| 18:59.52 | mlankhorst | yeah, they get tons of people applying too :) |
| 18:59.52 | thiago_home | lots of students and lots of mentors |
| 19:00.27 | maco | Ivanovic: looking at the histogram of /last year/ |
| 19:00.33 | Ivanovic | ahhhh |
| 19:00.36 | maco | Ivanovic: that dberkholz posted |
| 19:00.37 | YuviPanda | is that because of the C++ vs C/gobj thing? |
| 19:01.08 | Ivanovic | do not forget that kde is a whole desktop environment with *many* projects that were in SoC handled under kde |
| 19:01.11 | thiago_home | doubts it |
| 19:01.21 | *** join/#gsoc micahcowan (~micah@gnu/maintainer/micahcowan) |
| 19:01.31 | YuviPanda | Ivanovic: same with GNOME too anyway. |
| 19:01.39 | dberkholz | maco: umbrella projects get a lot |
| 19:01.53 | maco | makes sense |
| 19:02.07 | maco | im working on adding another project to kde's umbrella too :P |
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| 19:03.28 | kblin | YuviPanda: well, you can still develop for the older iphone os, right? |
| 19:03.46 | kblin | but basically, this just shows again how evil apple really is |
| 19:03.57 | thiago_home | you can develop anything for the iPhone |
| 19:04.04 | thiago_home | the question is whether they'll let your app in the store |
| 19:04.17 | thiago_home | and if they'll let you even install the app without jailbreaking |
| 19:04.25 | YuviPanda | thiago_home: if app isn't in the app store that pretty much means nobody's gonna use it |
| 19:04.35 | thiago_home | I know |
| 19:04.44 | thiago_home | but it's their store, they choose what they put on it |
| 19:05.08 | sreich | and choose what they want to remove from it.. |
| 19:05.16 | thiago_home | yeah |
| 19:05.29 | YuviPanda | thiago_home: one thing I don't get is that why, while 'it's their store, they choose what hey put on it' is legal but 'it's their OS, they choose what they put on it' isn't |
| 19:05.35 | micahcowan | Google exercises similar control over the Android market, though they seem to be more permissive. |
| 19:05.38 | *** join/#gsoc jdk2588 (~jaideep@117.199.112.78) |
| 19:05.46 | YuviPanda | NOTE: I was probably a preteen when that happened, so I have no clue what i'm talkin about |
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| 19:06.15 | thiago_home | YuviPanda: it's legal, though, because you have to accept the license of their software |
| 19:06.20 | sreich | precisely |
| 19:06.23 | thiago_home | and the license can require almost anythin |
| 19:06.32 | sreich | the giant EULA that nobody reads |
| 19:06.43 | maco | thiago_home: i thought you couldnt install apps that werent in the store, period? |
| 19:07.07 | thiago_home | maco: I think that, as a developer, you can deploy apps to your phone |
| 19:07.08 | thiago_home | I think |
| 19:07.13 | tzikis | not without jailbreaking it |
| 19:07.14 | thiago_home | I mean, how do people test the apps? |
| 19:07.39 | tzikis | thiago_home: that's true |
| 19:07.50 | sreich | yeah, but what if it requires the sdk to actually do that, or something? |
| 19:07.56 | maco | thiago_home: yeah but if you develop an app and they refuse to put it in the store, oksure "its their store they can choose what to sell" but what about the part where nobody ELSE can sell too? |
| 19:08.16 | maco | nobody else can buy your app |
| 19:08.21 | thiago_home | they can |
| 19:08.23 | sreich | i.e. you can't just send off a gunzip to n users and have them install it easily. that's another alternative, I suppose. |
| 19:08.27 | thiago_home | the problem is how you get the app to download |
| 19:08.34 | thiago_home | you need another store app |
| 19:08.42 | thiago_home | and you can only get those after jailbreakin |
| 19:08.49 | thiago_home | crappy g key... |
| 19:08.58 | maco | imagine if ubuntu made it impossible to install packages that didnt come from the repos |
| 19:09.03 | maco | same thing |
| 19:09.06 | sreich | and if your app competes in any way, against an app of apple's, I would expect it to be removed. also see the one case where there was an exceptional replacement for what iTunes did; and they removed it because it "duplicates functionality of iTunes". |
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| 19:09.11 | maco | oh and compiling from source was also impossible |
| 19:09.49 | thiago_home | anyway, it doesn't amaze me that Apple does that |
| 19:10.00 | YuviPanda | maco: and you could't write your own apps without payin 99$ to Canonical... |
| 19:10.03 | thiago_home | what amazes me is that they get away with it and that people buy their device |
| 19:10.10 | sreich | yes |
| 19:10.10 | maco | YuviPanda: right |
| 19:10.21 | sreich | it's because it isn't important to "regular people"; they don't care |
| 19:10.29 | sreich | or aren't aware |
| 19:10.41 | thiago_home | yep |
| 19:10.44 | SukhE | Stuff such as this doesn't bother many people. They just need to get it working. |
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| 19:11.02 | sreich | the majority I have talked to are completely oblivious to it. especially the apple fanboys I have talked to. although those, after informance, have just shrugged it off |
| 19:11.17 | thiago_home | is of course keenly aware of that |
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| 19:11.33 | tzikis | 99% of the people don't care because simply they are not developers, and it's 100% easier for them to install an application through the AppStore than the other alternatives anyway |
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| 19:11.53 | bawr | Wait, what? Cannonical block third-party repos? o_0 |
| 19:12.12 | tzikis | this is also why most reviews of the iPad are negative, but it's been selling as hell |
| 19:12.23 | kblin | haha |
| 19:12.30 | maco | bawr: saying that the way the iphone works would be like if canonical blocked 3rd party repos and compilers |
| 19:12.36 | bawr | Well, iPad is mostly a fanboy product, if we want to be frank. |
| 19:12.37 | sreich | it kind of sucks really. I feel like us open source developers are living in an episode of The Twilight Zone, wherein everyone else but us knows the truth, and we are seen as crazy.. |
| 19:12.38 | bawr | maco: Ahh. |
| 19:12.54 | kblin | we've got one applicant who attached a full version of his application as .docx document |
| 19:13.00 | maco | kblin: O_O |
| 19:13.02 | SukhE | Hehe. |
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| 19:13.05 | sreich | kblin: wow. |
| 19:13.06 | tzikis | hahaha |
| 19:13.06 | bawr | kblin: ...ouch. |
| 19:13.12 | sreich | big slap in the face :D |
| 19:13.22 | bawr | Do you have a ceremonial flogging in mind for such people? |
| 19:13.27 | cao | kblin: spam |
| 19:13.29 | dberkholz | kblin: was he wondering whether wine could handle it? |
| 19:13.29 | mlankhorst | .dox :> |
| 19:13.41 | tzikis | make them convert .docx to LaTeX |
| 19:13.42 | sreich | kblin: haha, what's better: is it in office 2007-only? :D |
| 19:13.43 | tzikis | THAT will teach them |
| 19:13.43 | kblin | I'd really like to see the face of jeremy allison when I pass on this application |
| 19:13.47 | YuviPanda | kblin: did he submit that to OO.org? :D |
| 19:13.55 | kkb110 | LOL |
| 19:13.55 | maco | OOo can open .docx |
| 19:13.59 | thiago_home | open, yes |
| 19:14.01 | kblin | YuviPanda: samba |
| 19:14.08 | thiago_home | OOo has trouble with .pptx though |
| 19:14.08 | bawr | tzikis: Hey, now don't you bad-mouth LaTeX. ;P |
| 19:14.14 | thiago_home | layout gets destroyed |
| 19:14.23 | thiago_home | I've added to my corporate signature "Don't send me .pptx" |
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| 19:14.28 | thiago_home | email signature |
| 19:14.28 | kkb110 | maybe the proposal is about improving docx support |
| 19:14.32 | cao | also mit some .ppt files |
| 19:14.37 | tzikis | i just dont like it. And i also think its the worse thing you can do to someone who's used to .docx |
| 19:14.53 | Tobias_Houfek | Hi, I missed my the application deadline |
| 19:14.55 | sreich | thiago_home: yeah, anyone who sends me a format like that I will just respond back telling them where they can put it :) |
| 19:14.55 | maco | when my windows-using friends would get stuck with .docx files they learned to send them to me to get them converted to .doc files (yay OOo) |
| 19:15.01 | bawr | !extension |
| 19:15.01 | socinfo | "extension" is The deadline WAS NOT extended and WILL NOT be. Not even for you. |
| 19:15.13 | bawr | That. Sorry, try next year. |
| 19:15.14 | kkb110 | ,,,,,,,,, |
| 19:15.15 | Tobias_Houfek | Is there a way I can still hand it in ? |
| 19:15.17 | YuviPanda | maco: I just asked them to mail it to themselves and open with google |
| 19:15.24 | bawr | Tobias_Houfek: No. |
| 19:15.26 | cao | kblin: please hand hjeremy this application in person and take a picture of his face |
| 19:16.07 | sreich | lol |
| 19:16.07 | dberkholz | sreich: that works great till your boss does it (or your boss's boss) |
| 19:16.07 | sreich | yeah :) |
| 19:16.08 | kblin | cao: sure, send me a plane ticket for a STR<->SFO round trip flight, please |
| 19:16.08 | thiago_home | I just tell them: if I modify this document, I will destroy the formatting |
| 19:16.08 | thiago_home | then they understand |
| 19:16.24 | bawr | Out of curiosity... Would you still be offended if someone sent you a PDF instead of a PS? ;) |
| 19:16.30 | kblin | thiago_home: well, luckily my boss' boss dislikes the new office |
| 19:16.41 | maco | hmm didnt consider this potential downside of switching jobs from an open source company to a not-open-source company... |
| 19:16.44 | thiago_home | PDF is ok |
| 19:16.49 | kkb110 | pdf will be ok since it's an open format |
| 19:16.56 | YuviPanda | put it in a gist |
| 19:17.20 | YuviPanda | should move to something similar to gist but hosted on his own servers |
| 19:17.28 | thiago_home | remembers when we required job applications to be .pdf or .txt |
| 19:17.30 | thiago_home | never .doc |
| 19:17.49 | bawr | Uhh. |
| 19:17.53 | bawr | "Gist helps build stronger relationships by connecting the inbox to the web to provide business-critical information about the people and companies that..." |
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| 19:17.58 | bawr | Sounds so... enterprisey. |
| 19:18.35 | kkb110 | I really don't like the fact that a lot of undergrad students pay their tuition to learn ms word, excel, access.. etc.. in a college |
| 19:18.47 | YuviPanda | bawr: now what i'm hearin.. :| |
| 19:18.52 | maco | isnt that primary school stuff? |
| 19:18.54 | YuviPanda | Gist is a simple way to share snippets and pastes with others. All gists are git repositories, so they are automatically versioned, forkable and usable as a git repository. |
| 19:18.55 | bawr | thiago_home: So if I send out a PDF and a near-identical plaintext version in my e-mail's body, I'm a part of some dying breed? |
| 19:19.05 | thiago_home | bawr: somethin like that |
| 19:19.11 | YuviPanda | doesn't even have a resume :| |
| 19:19.11 | bawr | :( |
| 19:19.21 | maco | my resume is done in LaTeX |
| 19:19.27 | kkb110 | maco: many of my friends in here actually taking those courses here.. I was amazed too |
| 19:19.27 | bawr | Ha, awesome. |
| 19:19.46 | kkb110 | maco: but of course not cs majors |
| 19:19.49 | Tobias_Houfek | sorry again but is there absolutely no way to still send my proposal, like if the mentoring organisation agreed ? |
| 19:19.57 | thiago_home | Tobias_Houfek: no |
| 19:20.01 | kblin | !extensionm |
| 19:20.01 | socinfo | Error: "extensionm" is not a valid command. |
| 19:20.02 | kblin | !extension |
| 19:20.02 | socinfo | "extension" is The deadline WAS NOT extended and WILL NOT be. Not even for you. |
| 19:20.04 | maco | kkb110: i remember it being required at the *community college* i attended while in high school, but neither my uni's international affairs school nor school of arts and sciences required it |
| 19:20.06 | thiago_home | Tobias_Houfek: deadline was 24 hours and 20 minutes ao |
| 19:20.10 | kblin | Tobias_Houfek: see above |
| 19:20.10 | bawr | YuviPanda: Wait, what. My Google-fu is weak, care to link to those gists you speak of? |
| 19:20.16 | thiago_home | Tobias_Houfek: you can submit it if you invent a time machine |
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| 19:20.35 | bawr | See? Now *that's* a project for the summer. |
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| 19:20.53 | kkb110 | maco: some major requires here (u. of delaware) |
| 19:20.55 | kblin | Tobias_Houfek: of course you can get involved with your mentoring org anyway |
| 19:21.04 | Kosma | bawr: actually, the summer becomes kinda meaningless once you invent that machine |
| 19:21.06 | Tobias_Houfek | even if no one else applied for that project ? |
| 19:21.06 | kblin | just not as a gsoc student |
| 19:21.19 | YuviPanda | bawr: http://gist.github.com/ |
| 19:21.25 | maco | Tobias_Houfek: if you submitted a proposal already, i'm not *sure* but i think you can still edit it |
| 19:21.29 | bawr | Kosma: But I was talking about trying to invent it over the summer. |
| 19:21.32 | maco | if you didnt submit anything, too bad |
| 19:21.35 | kblin | Tobias_Houfek: look, it's called a deadline because it won't budge |
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| 19:21.45 | jcreigh | maco: you can't edit an existing proposal, but you can add comments. (I believe) |
| 19:22.02 | bawr | YuviPanda: Aah, should've just said "the gist pastebins" ;)_ |
| 19:22.08 | maco | jcreigh: ah ok |
| 19:22.13 | bawr | *github |
| 19:22.19 | Tobias_Houfek | man, why is called application deadline if its the proposal deadline |
| 19:22.27 | Tobias_Houfek | ^it |
| 19:22.31 | JanisB | Hello, Is it impossible for that moment to edit submitted proposals? |
| 19:22.37 | kblin | !edit |
| 19:22.38 | socinfo | "edit" is You can submit your application early and edit it up until the deadline (April 9). Once the deadline passes, you cannot edit it. Instead, leave comments. |
| 19:22.43 | jcreigh | Tobias_Houfek: huh? What did you think "application deadline" meant? |
| 19:22.43 | kkb110 | seems to be impossible |
| 19:22.50 | thiago_home | JanisB: yes, you can't edit |
| 19:22.51 | maco | Tobias_Houfek: because the proposal is how you apply... |
| 19:22.54 | JanisB | oh, thanks |
| 19:22.56 | bawr | ...Please, don't start complaining about something nearly no one has a problem with, Tobias_Houfek. |
| 19:23.08 | bawr | It just makes you look bad. |
| 19:23.10 | Tobias_Houfek | being able to apply as atudent, thats what i thought it meant |
| 19:23.22 | maco | and the proposal is part of the application |
| 19:23.23 | YuviPanda | checks out, has a BarCamp to attend tomorrow |
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| 19:23.28 | bawr | In that case, you should have tried to make sure earlier. |
| 19:23.32 | Tobias_Houfek | right, no complaining |
| 19:23.40 | Tobias_Houfek | anyway, too bad |
| 19:23.51 | kblin | Tobias_Houfek: talk to your mentoring org anyway |
| 19:23.54 | maco | no reason you cant work on open source anyway |
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| 19:24.08 | kblin | they might still want to mentor you, even if they can't fund you |
| 19:24.19 | maco | ive never been a GSoC-student but ive spent since my second semester at uni working on open source |
| 19:24.20 | Tobias_Houfek | i missed the t-shirt :) |
| 19:24.28 | Tobias_Houfek | anyway, thx |
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| 19:24.42 | kblin | Tobias_Houfek: you could mentor for some project ;) |
| 19:24.45 | Tobias_Houfek | i already wrote a mail to both tutor and google |
| 19:25.01 | CiswatiC | wat is the deadline to edit the proposal? |
| 19:25.03 | kblin | Tobias_Houfek: that's how I get my t-shirts these days |
| 19:25.07 | maco | CiswatiC: yesterday |
| 19:25.11 | kblin | !edit |
| 19:25.11 | socinfo | "edit" is You can submit your application early and edit it up until the deadline (April 9). Once the deadline passes, you cannot edit it. Instead, leave comments. |
| 19:25.18 | maco | i just got around to filling out the "i want to be a mentor" form on melange |
| 19:29.01 | micahcowan | maco, if there are specific project proposals you want to mentor, go mark them ASAP, and then maybe email your org admin |
| 19:29.29 | CiswatiC | how can i add comments? and uptil what time? |
| 19:29.30 | maco | micahcowan: i dont think i can see the proposals yet |
| 19:29.34 | micahcowan | Any proposals that should have had mentors, but didn't, may adversely affect your org's allocated student slots if it's not done by Monday/Tuesday |
| 19:30.01 | micahcowan | CiswatiC, you go to the proposal and comment on it. I'm not aware of a limit on comments. |
| 19:30.23 | Dark_Shikari | how do we get a proposal to move from "sent" to "under review"? |
| 19:30.24 | micahcowan | maco, you should be able to once you finish the mentor form (and are approved). |
| 19:30.26 | Dark_Shikari | I offered to mentor it |
| 19:30.28 | Dark_Shikari | but it didn't move |
| 19:30.30 | micahcowan | You'll have to ping your org admin for that, possibly. |
| 19:30.35 | maco | micahcowan: yeah im waiting for the approved bit |
| 19:30.40 | dhaun | Dark_Shikari: add a comment |
| 19:30.48 | Dark_Shikari | ah k |
| 19:31.09 | kblin | ew, what kind of CSV format is that? |
| 19:31.11 | dhaun | scoring may also help - didn't try that |
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| 19:31.25 | micahcowan | scoring doesn't seem to be necessary, just commenting. |
| 19:31.45 | swa_k | any berkman mentors here?? |
| 19:32.12 | kkb110 | why don't you go to #berkman? |
| 19:32.35 | swa_k | tried not many ppl thr,and everythn is so quiet thr |
| 19:32.44 | kkb110 | ok.. |
| 19:33.02 | swa_k | its so much better hre |
| 19:33.09 | micahcowan | possibly timezone diffs? |
| 19:33.14 | kkb110 | here, at least some people respond, like me.. I understand, although it is not useful at all lol |
| 19:33.51 | swa_k | yea but its gud to kno thr real ppl on the othr side too :) |
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| 19:39.09 | kblin | crud |
| 19:39.33 | kblin | and here I thought using the csv data exported by melange was easy |
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| 19:41.52 | bawr | Eww, CSV. |
| 19:43.31 | kblin | bawr: I wish |
| 19:44.12 | movicont | !logs |
| 19:44.12 | socinfo | "logs" is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc |
| 19:44.30 | kblin | they use a dialect of CSV that allows for quoted text to contain newlines |
| 19:45.04 | Dark_Shikari | So, how do we know which proposals have mentors and which don't? |
| 19:45.06 | thebolt | kblin: got the http access working on the DUO? |
| 19:45.14 | Dark_Shikari | There's only "sent" and "under review" |
| 19:45.18 | Dark_Shikari | and "under review" means "has a comment" |
| 19:45.19 | Dark_Shikari | not "has a mentor" |
| 19:45.27 | bawr | Well, CSV is fun like that. There's so many broken dialects! :( |
| 19:46.22 | gevaerts | Dark_Shikari: "has a mentor" is pretty meaningless this early in the review period |
| 19:46.30 | drt24 | kblin: is there a magic library which makes it easy? |
| 19:46.33 | dhaun | Dark_Shikari: there's a Mentor column in the list |
| 19:46.34 | Dark_Shikari | gevaerts: um... read the thread on the ML |
| 19:46.39 | micahcowan | gevaerts, er, no. |
| 19:46.48 | Dark_Shikari | (btw, this is why I hate the new system |
| 19:46.51 | Dark_Shikari | NOBODY KNOWS WHAT IS GOING ON) |
| 19:47.03 | kblin | thebolt: yeah, I just installed apt, ssh, and did a system update |
| 19:47.06 | gevaerts | I did read it :) |
| 19:47.10 | micahcowan | "has a mentor" is absolutely necessary to getting a student slot, as of this weekend. |
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| 19:47.43 | thebolt | kblin: yep, also did that on mine :) |
| 19:47.59 | micahcowan | Dark_Shikari, I'm not sure I understand. When I view proposals, they either have a name under "Mentors", or they have "N Proposed". |
| 19:48.03 | gevaerts | "If you just act as before, you won't see much of a difference in allocation" |
| 19:48.04 | kblin | I'm currently trying to get the damned proposals parsed out so I can turn them into emails and forward them to our internal list |
| 19:48.09 | Dark_Shikari | micahcowan: yeah, I see it now |
| 19:48.38 | kblin | I hate those JS lists, they're too smart and decide for me how many entries I want to see per page |
| 19:49.12 | micahcowan | kblin, agreed. |
| 19:49.14 | jcreigh | yeah, it would be greatly improved simply by the removal/improvement of that silly JS widget. |
| 19:49.40 | dhaun | gevaerts: except for the bit about assigning (preliminary) mentors now |
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| 19:50.04 | kblin | anyway |
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| 19:50.40 | gevaerts | wouldn't mind some actual clear communication from google every now and then |
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| 19:52.49 | micahcowan | gevaerts, "won't see much of a difference (from before)" and "is pretty meaningless" are not equivalent statements, AFAICT |
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| 19:53.26 | *** part/#gsoc mpavel (~Pavel@cpc1-dund3-0-0-cust363.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 19:53.34 | micahcowan | (Just because you won't do any worse than before by ignoring the assigned-mentors state, doesn't mean you can't do better by taking it into account) |
| 19:53.42 | aoszkar | !timeline |
| 19:53.42 | socinfo | "timeline" is (#1) http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs#timeline, or (#2) for the visually oriented: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_mRuBILD0TjI/S6tGHR4mM3I/AAAAAAAACbw/tftJozZHs-0/s1600/gsoc10timeline.JPG |
| 19:54.07 | gevaerts | micahcowan: my interpretation (which might of course easily be wrong) is that the slots allocation *in the end* will be the same, but if people assign mentors early it will converge faster |
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| 19:55.42 | aoszkar | the correct link for the timeline is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/timeline |
| 19:56.00 | *** join/#gsoc kishan_ (~kishan@117.201.96.246) |
| 19:57.30 | mlankhorst | heh, do i have to invite myself to become a mentor? :> |
| 19:58.10 | AshishG | :D |
| 19:58.20 | *** join/#gsoc vimzard (~vimzard@203.199.213.3) |
| 19:58.25 | mlankhorst | well that did the trick, now i can hit the 'willing to mentor' button |
| 19:59.10 | yonij | has anyone done a webcrawler before? |
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| 20:01.22 | *** join/#gsoc mlankhorst (~mlankhors@wine/developer/mlankhorst) |
| 20:01.22 | *** mode/#gsoc [+o mlankhorst] by ChanServ |
| 20:01.33 | *** join/#gsoc LawG (~lg@unaffiliated/hughjass) |
| 20:02.55 | bawr | yonij: writing one for your project? ;) |
| 20:02.59 | *** join/#gsoc MrBlueSky_ (~darkscyth@c-24-129-82-57.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 20:03.28 | yonij | yep |
| 20:03.48 | yonij | even if not for this...i should definitely learn it |
| 20:04.45 | AshishG | bawr: :D |
| 20:04.58 | manikand | yonij: cool man! which mentor org is this part of? |
| 20:05.21 | yonij | for berkman |
| 20:05.53 | xb95 | hmm. so, the score is a sum, which is OK but it's problematic if not every application is rated by the same number of people. seems like having a mean would be useful too. |
| 20:06.31 | neXyon | !next |
| 20:06.31 | socinfo | "next" is Student applications are closed. Be ready to respond to comments on and about your proposal. Accepted student proposals will be announced at http://socghop.appspot.com on April 26: 19:00 UTC. |
| 20:06.52 | *** join/#gsoc zaicic (~paul@cpc2-with1-0-0-cust597.bagu.cable.ntl.com) |
| 20:06.58 | AshishG | !google |
| 20:06.59 | socinfo | "google" is not the cosmic cash machine people think it is. |
| 20:07.15 | Kosma | !botabuse |
| 20:07.15 | socinfo | "botabuse" is (#1) Leave me alone! (also, you can play with me as much as you like in a private /query so as not to spam the channel), or (#2) When in a query with me, use whatis #gsoc <factoid> to get the best use., or (#3) You can also get a list of factoids with 'factoids search #gsoc *' and 'more' |
| 20:07.22 | *** join/#gsoc kane77 (~kane@194.1.130.108) |
| 20:08.50 | *** join/#gsoc kane77 (~kane@194.1.130.108) |
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| 20:11.29 | *** join/#gsoc neXyon (~neXyon@91-114-212-52.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 20:11.38 | kblin | man, my perl-fu still is weak |
| 20:12.31 | jkwood | Yeah, I can't decode line noise by hand either. |
| 20:13.08 | AshishG | :D |
| 20:13.46 | Kosma | actually, what's the reason of people thinking that Perl really is line noise? |
| 20:14.24 | jkwood | Comprehensive testing with both noisy and quiet phone lines. |
| 20:14.56 | jkwood | Hooking a signal tracer up to a fiber optic line produced exactly no usable Perl. |
| 20:15.30 | Kosma | ha ha |
| 20:15.44 | Kosma | but seriously, I gave a lecture about Perl some time ago |
| 20:15.53 | Kosma | I took great efforts to show people how clean and elegant it can be |
| 20:16.05 | mlankhorst | Kosma: but that is the ideal case |
| 20:16.08 | mlankhorst | in reality :) |
| 20:16.11 | AshishG | loves Python. :-~~ |
| 20:16.27 | jkwood | Ruby, on the other hand, is mostly gleaned from Dr. Seuss books. |
| 20:16.41 | Kosma | and somehow after the lecture most people still thought Perl is just a toy |
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| 20:17.08 | *** join/#gsoc rajat (~rajat@59.94.72.176) |
| 20:17.34 | jkwood | And Python can be generated from UML diagrams. |
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| 20:23.20 | *** join/#gsoc x` (~x`@dyn1067-48.hor.ic.ac.uk) |
| 20:24.10 | x` | hello |
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| 20:24.33 | fabiosl | !next |
| 20:24.34 | socinfo | "next" is Student applications are closed. Be ready to respond to comments on and about your proposal. Accepted student proposals will be announced at http://socghop.appspot.com on April 26: 19:00 UTC. |
| 20:25.06 | bawr | Kosma: It can be elegant, yes. C can be elegant, too. Hell, VB could be elgeant, I guess. |
| 20:25.10 | bawr | Or Brainfuck. |
| 20:25.12 | *** join/#gsoc eilime (~eilime@2002:4a50:35a9:0:221:e9ff:fed9:453f) |
| 20:25.13 | bawr | But you know. |
| 20:25.30 | *** join/#gsoc felipevieira (felipeviei@187-24-2-251.3g.claro.net.br) |
| 20:25.37 | Kosma | !perl |
| 20:25.37 | socinfo | Error: "perl" is not a valid command. |
| 20:25.39 | Kosma | :( |
| 20:26.29 | d4ddi0 | lols |
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| 20:27.39 | bawr | It's just that in a random sample of code, C tends to be just readable, VB insane and unreadable, and Perl looks like line noise. :) |
| 20:27.50 | bawr | *just barely readable |
| 20:28.29 | LawG | Usually you can tell what's going on in Perl if you understand the defaults |
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| 20:29.32 | Kosma | yes, and contexts |
| 20:29.34 | *** join/#gsoc lolfrenz (~stefys@unaffiliated/lolfrenz) |
| 20:29.38 | Kosma | and suddenly it's all clear and simple |
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| 20:29.48 | LawG | and very elegant ;) |
| 20:30.06 | bawr | So... to understand Perl, I only need to understand half of it in the first place? :) |
| 20:30.34 | Kosma | once you understand the mechanics, you can guess many things |
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| 20:30.57 | jkwood | So if you have context, then a random piece of code can make sense? That's amazing! |
| 20:31.09 | jkwood | I think I'll write something like that for C... |
| 20:31.11 | Kosma | no, the other way round |
| 20:31.26 | LawG | then a context can make sense? |
| 20:31.32 | Kosma | if you don't know Perl, context won't help you much |
| 20:32.12 | Kosma | or, well, you might understand what map { lcfirst } does, but you won't guess how |
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| 20:34.19 | Kosma | still, most of the Perl mechanics boil down to a few simple ideas: contexts, lists, map, default value |
| 20:35.10 | smtms | default variable? |
| 20:35.31 | Kosma | $_ |
| 20:35.39 | LawG | and file handle |
| 20:35.42 | *** join/#gsoc admishra (~admishra@117.96.46.149) |
| 20:35.43 | LawG | all that |
| 20:35.57 | Kosma | "- hey, $_ is damn hard to write! - yes, because you don't write it" |
| 20:36.50 | micahcowan | Not really a fan of Perl's context-dependency. But I'm a fan of having regexes built into the syntax. |
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| 20:37.23 | bawr | I prefer Python, thank you very much. If I want stuff that could resemble line noise, I'd stick with Scheme / any other Lisp and their parens. |
| 20:37.52 | micahcowan | doesn't see why life has to be "Perl versus Python". The both have strengths and weaknesses. |
| 20:38.04 | jkwood | bawr: Pretty sure that Python is just a pseudocode interpreter. |
| 20:38.15 | AshishG | :D |
| 20:38.16 | bawr | :D |
| 20:38.22 | *** join/#gsoc yonij (~chatzilla@117.196.160.195) |
| 20:38.23 | micahcowan | But my choice between Perl and Python tends to be how text-parsing oriented it is :) |
| 20:38.24 | AshishG | Again, Python :-~~ |
| 20:38.50 | bawr | micahcowan: I think it's not an accident than very few people like both Perl and Python. |
| 20:38.56 | Landon | micahcowan: hehe, I use python all the time for text processing though |
| 20:39.03 | bawr | At least not that I know od. |
| 20:39.05 | bawr | *of |
| 20:39.15 | AshishG | anyway, have to leave, gn |
| 20:39.15 | micahcowan | does |
| 20:39.23 | Landon | works for a datamining group on campus |
| 20:39.33 | Landon | er, Information Extraction* ;) |
| 20:39.33 | micahcowan | Landon, well sure, it's not like you _can't_. But Perl is better at it (IMO)... at least when regexes can do the job well. |
| 20:39.44 | Landon | yeah, I end up using regexen a _lot_ |
| 20:39.52 | bawr | I can see how Perl would be better for text-heavy work, though. |
| 20:39.55 | Landon | but it is nice having objects to play with instead of built in syntax |
| 20:40.08 | micahcowan | OTOH, it's always bothered me that iteration over characters in a string has never been as straightforward in Perl as it is in Python. |
| 20:40.09 | Landon | but it's been a looong time since I've heavily used perl |
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| 20:40.31 | micahcowan | You end up doing some /\G./g thing, or substr(...), or... |
| 20:40.43 | Landon | heh |
| 20:40.45 | bawr | And as far as Python goes, two things were deal-breakers for me. |
| 20:40.45 | micahcowan | Landon, yeah, well greater familiarity with one or the other is definitely a decent grounds for preference :) |
| 20:40.51 | bawr | a) Stackless Python |
| 20:40.55 | bawr | b) Generators |
| 20:41.07 | micahcowan | Generators are awesome. How can you not like generators? |
| 20:41.11 | Landon | micahcowan: 100%, I almost used python for my crypto class projects |
| 20:41.25 | bawr | Off the top of my head, list expressions are pretty neat, too. |
| 20:41.28 | Landon | then decided I'd probably be better off with C++ :p |
| 20:41.31 | bawr | micahcowan: I guess I said that wrong. |
| 20:41.36 | Landon | bit ops in python don't look like much fun |
| 20:41.38 | micahcowan | bawr, nm, I understand now. |
| 20:41.45 | micahcowan | You're pro-Python, so obviously that's not what you meant :) |
| 20:41.47 | bawr | Yeah, I phrased that wrong. |
| 20:42.14 | micahcowan | Landon, aren't bit ops in python the same as pretty much anything else? |
| 20:42.49 | bawr | No bitfields like in C? |
| 20:43.20 | Landon | micahcowan: huh, what do you know, I wonder what my problem with it was then |
| 20:43.21 | bawr | Obviously you haven't seen the struct module and some third-party binary manipulation libraries. :) |
| 20:43.32 | micahcowan | bitfields, as in struct { ... int foo:3; ... }? |
| 20:43.34 | *** part/#gsoc AshishG (13lackhat@117.254.27.62) |
| 20:43.37 | bawr | Yes. |
| 20:43.58 | bawr | But as I said, with third-party libraries, you can even get packed data like that with little hassle. |
| 20:44.29 | micahcowan | Yeah, seems less useful to high-level languages like Perl or Python. |
| 20:44.49 | micahcowan | Landon, speed, mebbe? |
| 20:45.01 | safal_soni | micahcowancan u tell me abt Python |
| 20:45.22 | bawr | safal_soni: Why don't you read about it instead? :) |
| 20:45.38 | micahcowan | safal_soni, the online documentation for Python is quite excellent. |
| 20:45.41 | Landon | micahcowan: it's possible, but I'm ready to admit that my bottleneck wrt speed is still algorithms and not language choice :p |
| 20:46.06 | micahcowan | Which, actually, is one thing I had trouble with in Perl. I was too cheap to buy a book, so I learned Perl from the manpages.... I do _not_ recommend that. :) |
| 20:46.43 | bawr | Python has good docs, for the most part. The ability to read 90% of the stdlib is a huge boon, too. |
| 20:47.17 | micahcowan | The manpages do make terrific _references_, tho. |
| 20:47.28 | safal_soni | :no what i want to know is gesture & speech recognition possible in python |
| 20:47.30 | bawr | Heh. |
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| 20:48.17 | bawr | safal_soni: Google "gesture speech recognition python" for libraries which implement it. If you want to implement it yourself... do some research, ask around in #python. :P |
| 20:48.19 | micahcowan | safal_soni, it's possible in any mainstream language. But you probably want libraries, in which case Google is your friend. |
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| 20:48.46 | safal_soni | micahcowan:thankx |
| 20:49.39 | bawr | micahcowan: I take offence to your "mainstream" remark! Give me enough time to write a C-to-brainfuck compiler, and I'll do it in brainfuck, even. Hell, I'm brave enough to attempt whitespace. ;) |
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| 20:50.12 | micahcowan | bawr, well, sure. I was too lazy to state _exactly_ what I meant instead of "mainstream" |
| 20:50.30 | bawr | Heh. |
| 20:50.33 | bawr | Fair enough. |
| 20:50.43 | micahcowan | Which includes Turing completeness, and interfaces to other facilities (libraries? other programs?) :) |
| 20:50.44 | d4ddi0 | "Google is your friend" sounds kinda ingratiating in a google sponsored channel |
| 20:50.57 | d4ddi0 | :p |
| 20:51.12 | micahcowan | d4ddi0, mebbe. How would you have said it. |
| 20:51.33 | d4ddi0 | same |
| 20:51.40 | bawr | micahcowan: If I had to, I would write a stdin-stdout multiplexer and interface with any libraries through that. ;) |
| 20:51.44 | jkwood | Topeka is your friend. |
| 20:52.21 | reddragon | anyone who has applied to berkman? |
| 20:52.48 | d4ddi0 | What we need is something equivalent to RTFM, but with s/manual/Intarwebs/ |
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| 20:52.59 | micahcowan | RTFW ? :) |
| 20:53.02 | micahcowan | STFW! |
| 20:53.09 | micahcowan | Hm, too close to STFU tho |
| 20:53.23 | bawr | You are like the fifth person to ask today. Why don't you all go to the berkman IRC channel and stay there until you meet someone. ;P |
| 20:54.06 | *** join/#gsoc promulo (~promulo@189.71.71.21) |
| 20:54.28 | bawr | I mean, every single berkman person says their IRC is empty so they came here, and of course there's almost never two of them around at the same time, and they don't scroll up a few hundred lines to know someone in a similar situation was here bafore- -snip-rant- |
| 20:54.57 | bawr | micahcowan: No, being close to STFU is just a bonus here. |
| 20:55.03 | LawG | you can't really scroll up if you just joined :/ |
| 20:55.29 | d4ddi0 | !berkman |
| 20:55.29 | socinfo | Error: "berkman" is not a valid command. |
| 20:55.35 | jkwood | LawG: You apparently need better scroll buttons. |
| 20:55.36 | bawr | LawG: Sorry, I'm damn too used to IRCing from a VPS that's always on. My bad. |
| 20:55.37 | d4ddi0 | :D |
| 20:55.46 | reddragon | bawr, LOL |
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| 20:56.20 | bawr | But if they all *stayed* in the berkman channel, they'd see one another. Just saying. I bet they go in, ask around, leave after two minutes and just ask here instead. |
| 20:56.50 | bawr | But yeah, I should stop ranting. :) |
| 20:56.53 | reddragon | bawr, I came here because other berkman people told me that they found other berkman applicants here instead of in the berkman channels |
| 20:57.04 | LawG | Yeah I'm not defending it |
| 20:57.07 | bawr | Which is *precisely* the problem! |
| 20:57.43 | d4ddi0 | berkman->slots--; |
| 20:57.48 | jkwood | Proposal: Berkman suffers from a lack of available help in their irc channel. My summer project will involve writing dozens of irc bots to give the illusion of available help. |
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| 20:58.12 | reddragon | berkman->slots++ :P |
| 20:58.13 | bawr | I must be the only person that stays in deadish IRC channels, waiting for when they get lively. Oddly enough, they *do* get lively after I stay there a few hours. |
| 20:58.22 | bawr | Ah well. |
| 20:58.30 | *** join/#gsoc Macarse (~macarse@190.193.173.112) |
| 20:58.37 | bawr | jkwood: :D |
| 21:03.45 | Ophiuchi | tls and diplomacy don't live on the same planet, and never have. Talk about apt naming :-> |
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| 21:05.41 | mayanks43 | bawr which org? |
| 21:06.07 | bawr | osuosl, or more specifically, the Pydra team. |
| 21:06.13 | mayanks43 | k |
| 21:06.25 | bawr | tls? |
| 21:06.40 | bawr | Somehow I doubt this is about transport layer security. |
| 21:07.17 | mayanks43 | is it times literary supplement |
| 21:07.19 | mayanks43 | :P |
| 21:07.20 | Ophiuchi | bawr: it's not |
| 21:07.33 | Ophiuchi | mayanks43: no :) |
| 21:07.52 | *** join/#gsoc pygi (Mario@metronet308.zg.metro.carnet.hr) |
| 21:07.53 | bawr | Do tell, then. |
| 21:07.55 | Ophiuchi | the nickname of a member of my org |
| 21:08.11 | bawr | Aww, it was an inside joke. |
| 21:08.24 | micahcowan | bawr, at least you're not one of those that pops into a chan, asks a question, and then parts when no one has answered it _two_ minutes later. :p |
| 21:08.29 | micahcowan | (pet peeve) |
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| 21:09.33 | bawr | micahcowan: I was alluding that it's precisely my pet peeve, yes. :) |
| 21:10.00 | *** join/#gsoc bluescarni (~yardbird@82-171-103-79.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 21:10.05 | bawr | My simple rule is that if I'm joining a channel with some purpose in mind, the minimum I should stay is 24h. |
| 21:10.38 | Ophiuchi | bawr: that is slow :) |
| 21:11.48 | bawr | Why? My IRC client informs me if something happens, so I lose nothing. |
| 21:13.30 | mayanks43 | pidgin \m/ |
| 21:13.46 | micahcowan | And many smaller-ish chans (even if they appear to have many lurkers, who may not actually know answers) are strongly tied to timezones, so waiting the better part of a full day/night cycle often makes sense (if you can sit around that long) |
| 21:14.18 | micahcowan | I'll frequently wake up in the morning and try to answer questions in #wget that may have been sitting there for several hours. |
| 21:14.26 | reddragon | mayanks43, what have you applied for? |
| 21:14.36 | bawr | Urrgh, Pidgin and IRC. |
| 21:14.38 | mayanks43 | limesurvey |
| 21:14.47 | mayanks43 | :) |
| 21:14.59 | x` | micahcowan: which is, funnily enough, only possible on those quiet small channels :) |
| 21:15.06 | bawr | mayanks43: And I agree, if one doesn't keep their IRC session open at all times, waiting around for answers would be a pain indeed. |
| 21:15.52 | *** join/#gsoc laknath (~buddhika@112.135.94.34) |
| 21:15.59 | *** join/#gsoc codestasher (~nitin@122.169.128.223) |
| 21:16.16 | bawr | Which is why I don't have a problem with paying an IRC tax for an irc-centric vps. :) |
| 21:17.19 | mayanks43 | wht is tht? :) |
| 21:18.03 | jkwood | Virtual Private Server. It's essentially a virtual machine that someone else hosts for you. |
| 21:18.11 | jkwood | Example: Linode.com |
| 21:18.29 | mayanks43 | k |
| 21:18.32 | bawr | For most uses, you can pretty much substitute "a shell account". |
| 21:20.01 | jkwood | If you're just using it for irc, es. |
| 21:20.03 | jkwood | *yes |
| 21:20.20 | jkwood | Mine also hosts my webserver, as well as torrents of one of the Linux distros I used to run. |
| 21:20.58 | mayanks43 | so what r the benefits over normal irc clients? |
| 21:21.28 | Ophiuchi | mayanks43: being able to hibernate on irc |
| 21:21.32 | bawr | Hmm. Linode uses Xen, so it looks pretty nice. Something to consider when I'll be able to switch providers. (My current one was chosen specifically for its ability to provide OpenVPN, even though it's not on Xen.) |
| 21:21.53 | Ophiuchi | (not claiming I wasn't doing that, mark. Just not for every visit to every channel) |
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| 21:22.15 | bawr | mayanks43: Well, if you need it, you'll feel something in your heart. ;) |
| 21:22.30 | mayanks43 | gr8 lemme give it a try |
| 21:22.33 | mayanks43 | :) |
| 21:23.13 | jkwood | bawr: It's an unmanaged service, so you're on your own for setting it up. The community docs are pretty good, though. |
| 21:23.36 | bawr | Well, I always set these things up myself. |
| 21:23.52 | jkwood | mayanks43: I have a copy of irssi sitting in screen which sits in irc channels 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. I just connect to it with ssh when I want to be there. |
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| 21:24.38 | mayanks43 | jkwood: u get all logs... how do u search for useful info |
| 21:24.43 | mayanks43 | some shortcut |
| 21:25.02 | jkwood | I just review it as needed. Some channels I don't bother reading backlog on - others are small enough to do it. |
| 21:25.19 | bawr | jkwood: dtach+weechat here. :) |
| 21:25.34 | bawr | Also, Linode looks pretty sweet, they even have sane DNS configuration. |
| 21:25.41 | jkwood | You can also set irssi up so that when you go /away, it logs every highlight of your name, and dumps them in a channel when you come back. |
| 21:25.55 | mayanks43 | k tht's gr8 |
| 21:26.41 | jkwood | bawr: I could not be happier with them. Great people to work with. |
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| 21:29.29 | bawr | jkwood: Well, I've just found my new VPS host. :) |
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| 21:30.15 | jkwood | Apparently he found his answer pretty quick. |
| 21:31.07 | summatusmentis | jkwood: I'm doing the same thing on my VPS |
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| 21:35.28 | mkarnicki | my dear.. deadline is over, and the channel is so quiet ;) |
| 21:35.45 | sreich | I like it this way |
| 21:36.09 | mkarnicki | :) |
| 21:36.11 | sreich | less talking about non-coding things :) |
| 21:36.16 | mkarnicki | xD |
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| 21:38.05 | bawr | Heh. |
| 21:38.27 | no_u0 | is it ok for a student to add comments to his app after the deadline? |
| 21:38.40 | kblin | no_u0: sure |
| 21:39.30 | kblin | aw, man, the kernel shipped with my nas doesn't come with ipv6 built in.. |
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| 21:43.43 | Ophiuchi | kblin: is that going to be a persistent problem? :> |
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| 21:45.30 | kblin | probably not, as soon as I figure out how to best compile a kernel module for that sparc system |
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| 21:51.32 | mayanks43 | i just commented on my app :P |
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| 21:52.24 | mayanks43 | which had a mistake and had to repost to rectify tht |
| 21:53.47 | no_u0 | my app is like ..7 pages on m$ word |
| 21:54.00 | mayanks43 | mine same :) |
| 21:54.41 | mayanks43 | ppl have made really quality apps this time so battle is tuffer :( |
| 21:56.32 | vegard | hm. I am not able to access my proposal anymore |
| 21:56.40 | vegard | I click it in the list and nothing happens |
| 21:56.57 | Declination | yes, I am curious about this as well |
| 21:57.12 | Declination | maybe its an interim phase thing since presumable we have to be able to see comments on it |
| 21:57.49 | mayanks43 | hmmm... no prob on mine |
| 21:58.24 | Declination | i shall check again, haven't looked in a few hours |
| 21:58.51 | Declination | ya, nothing happens for me |
| 21:59.18 | mayanks43 | weird |
| 21:59.25 | jkwood | vegard: Force a refresh in your browser. |
| 21:59.28 | no_u0 | works fine for me on chrome |
| 21:59.51 | jkwood | That was a bug they introduced yesterday and fixed today, so you probably still have the bug in your browser cache. |
| 22:00.10 | mayanks43 | or clear cache |
| 22:00.11 | vegard | ok, worked now |
| 22:00.12 | vegard | thanks |
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| 22:00.39 | Declination | that was odd |
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| 22:05.14 | xb95 | really would like a way to sort by mean score |
| 22:05.32 | xb95 | also, my mentors really want a way to see which ones they haven't rated yet |
| 22:05.39 | xb95 | 68 applications, some are bound to get forgotten |
| 22:05.49 | xb95 | without going through it a dozen times to make sure |
| 22:06.03 | xb95 | is there a melange API? |
| 22:06.07 | xb95 | goes to look |
| 22:07.17 | ankitg | xb95: try #melange |
| 22:07.17 | xb95 | doesn't seem to be |
| 22:08.20 | xb95 | yeah, I know of that channel. this channel contains other org admins though who deal with the same problems, and maybe one of them has interesting and useful workarounds. and if not, at least this raises awareness to google. |
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| 22:09.08 | xiainx | xb95: Spreadsheet? |
| 22:10.03 | xb95 | I'm under the impression that we need to rank them within Melange so Google has that information for.. their own purposes. or whatever. is that not true? |
| 22:10.41 | dhaun | xb95: in the end - yes |
| 22:11.10 | dhaun | but you could do the initial ranking outside of Melange and then rank only those that you actually want to mentor so that they're at the top |
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| 23:00.38 | yonij | can anyone clarify on mapreduce...basic level? |
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