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| 00:17.11 | harlan | where can I find the LinkID of our last-year's backup org admin? |
| 00:21.54 | ojwb | harlan: ask him/her? |
| 00:22.39 | ojwb | i don't think last year's applications are available |
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| 00:23.24 | harlan | ojwb: thanks, I might have just gotten that. |
| 00:26.57 | harlan | Whre do I learn the Link ID format? |
| 00:27.17 | micahcowan | It's just the "link ID" that the user chose when they signed up for an account. |
| 00:27.34 | micahcowan | it's just a nick, basically |
| 00:27.49 | micahcowan | (Hiya, harlan) |
| 00:27.50 | harlan | It;s not the user@gmail.com address, apparently. |
| 00:27.56 | harlan | Hi micahcowan - how goes? |
| 00:28.02 | ojwb | harlan: no, it's a "token" provided when you sign up |
| 00:28.18 | ojwb | your irc nick would be one obvious choice |
| 00:28.58 | ojwb | harlan: hmm, I think last year it might have autocompleted if you typed a name |
| 00:29.11 | ojwb | so try that perhaps... |
| 00:29.41 | harlan | will do - here goes... |
| 00:29.58 | harlan | he's already applied from last year, so I'd like to use whatever we used then. |
| 00:30.48 | harlan | I guessed, it was accepted. Works for me, for now. |
| 00:30.52 | micahcowan | :) |
| 00:31.37 | ojwb | cool |
| 00:32.32 | harlan | Are the application templates things on the appspot site, or are they on our project's site? |
| 00:33.12 | jasebo | I wish I could change my linkID |
| 00:33.20 | jasebo | :-( |
| 00:33.36 | jasebo | it gets used as the mentoring organisation link as well, but mine is based on my name |
| 00:34.02 | jasebo | if I'd known last year when I created it, I would have chosen a linkID that was related to my project |
| 00:34.23 | jasebo | harlan: you fill out an online application form at the appspot site |
| 00:36.29 | harlan | thanks - I'm hoping that we have a form from last year I can stil use. |
| 00:38.00 | harlan | Is that available? I'm not seeing it on the socghop.apspot.com page... |
| 00:38.07 | MatthewWilkes | jasebo: Where is it used for the org? |
| 00:38.17 | jasebo | Last year I created a document and typed it all up using that... and thankfully I saved it! |
| 00:39.41 | jasebo | Our "LimeSurvey" page is at http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_org/google/gsoc2009/jcleeland/limesurveyhome |
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| 00:42.07 | jasebo | "jcleeland" is my linkID |
| 00:42.16 | jasebo | and from memory it gets used for all the relevant LimeSurvey links |
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| 00:42.33 | jasebo | ^^^ MatthewWilkes |
| 00:42.39 | jasebo | it's just a minor annoyance :-) |
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| 00:43.55 | ojwb | jasebo: I think that means you put "jcleeland" in two places |
| 00:44.03 | ojwb | last year our org and admin linkids weren't the same |
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| 00:48.21 | MatthewWilkes | jasebo: It really shouldn't, your org has its own linkid |
| 00:48.31 | MatthewWilkes | jasebo: Report it as a bug if it actually does |
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| 00:54.39 | harlan | Are there "org" documents as opposed to ones I would write? |
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| 00:58.33 | harlan | ie, I want a document that I can edit and my backup org admin can edit. |
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| 01:01.20 | jasebo | harlan: what I mean is that I copied all the questions into a word processing document, answered them all there |
| 01:01.31 | jasebo | then I sent them around our developers group for comments and changes |
| 01:01.38 | jasebo | then I pasted them into the online form! |
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| 01:02.47 | jasebo | MatthewWilkes: I'll double check it this year and definitely report it as a bug if that happens, I can't find the links from last year that I am vaguely remembering, so I could just be talking rubbish :-| |
| 01:03.29 | harlan | Is it expected that potential students will fill out that form as part of the GSoC application process, and that is "mechanically" part of the appspot page, or is it something on our site? I'm kinda getting that it's a form at appspot... |
| 01:04.11 | harlan | and since it contains possibly private info |
| 01:04.24 | harlan | it would be good to know who will be seeing that info. |
| 01:05.25 | ojwb | harlan: I don't recall the exact details, but they do fill out stuff in melange |
| 01:05.58 | jasebo | students got their own application form last year, some bits of the organisation application form become public, but I don't think all of it - it's there so that your org can be assessed for selection |
| 01:06.05 | harlan | thanks ojwb |
| 01:06.28 | ojwb | you might want to encourage them to make the non-private-details part public too |
| 01:06.36 | ojwb | so your wider community can comment |
| 01:06.53 | ojwb | harlan: you were in last year weren't you? |
| 01:07.03 | ojwb | oh, or were you not the org admin? |
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| 01:09.12 | harlan | if that;'s the case, it sure would be swell if there were better pointers to how to "make it go". |
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| 02:46.52 | MatthewWilkes | Can I get an opinion from a former student on a application template question please? I want to know if it's a good way to ask for a timeline of the project |
| 02:47.18 | MatthewWilkes | http://pastie.org/864425 |
| 02:52.25 | codestasher | MatthewWilkes , its good to ask |
| 02:52.42 | codestasher | but mentor should also help out the student in designing the timeline |
| 02:52.56 | codestasher | especially for a student who is there to learn |
| 02:54.16 | MatthewWilkes | hmm, so I should make it more clear that it's not binding? |
| 02:55.13 | codestasher | you may do that |
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| 02:56.12 | MatthewWilkes | Thanks for the permission :P |
| 02:56.17 | skbohra | as a former student i would say, its nice to have it in template |
| 02:56.21 | skbohra | MatthewWilkes: :D |
| 02:56.22 | codestasher | any time ;) |
| 02:56.54 | MatthewWilkes | skbohra: Right, but is that way of wording it any good? |
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| 02:57.57 | skbohra | MatthewWilkes: i found it interesting, especially the last two |
| 02:58.22 | codestasher | MatthewWilkes, your org ?? |
| 02:58.47 | MatthewWilkes | codestasher: Plone |
| 02:59.17 | MatthewWilkes | skbohra: The last one is a bit unusual, but surely asking them where they want to be in their project by the end of SoC isn't too controversial? |
| 02:59.27 | jasebo | it's a good idea MatthewWilkes - our students had trouble working out what we meant by "milestones" last year |
| 02:59.46 | ojwb | "kilometrestones" |
| 03:00.02 | jasebo | thanks ojwb :-) |
| 03:00.11 | skbohra | you project after three months of gsoc, makes lots of sense, in selecting a student who will continue to work with org even after gsoc |
| 03:00.19 | skbohra | :) |
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| 03:01.23 | ojwb | skbohra: or one who will say that they will |
| 03:01.50 | skbohra | :D who will not |
| 03:04.06 | MatthewWilkes | or at least make them think about it while writing their application |
| 03:05.50 | codestasher | !topic |
| 03:05.50 | socinfo | "topic" is Read it! /topic will show it again. |
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| 03:08.28 | skbohra | MatthewWilkes: exactly |
| 03:10.56 | J-NFurst1 | I am excited to hear that plone will be participating in gsoc this year :) |
| 03:11.02 | ojwb | MatthewWilkes: it's a nice clear approach, though sometimes a project might break down better into different milestones |
| 03:11.25 | ojwb | J-NFurst1: you only know they are *applying* at present... |
| 03:11.39 | J-NFurst1 | yeah i know |
| 03:11.54 | J-NFurst1 | but I hope they get in! |
| 03:11.56 | LetterRip_ | J-NFurst1: i was gonna say everyone is applying still :) |
| 03:12.00 | LetterRip_ | no garuntees |
| 03:16.49 | MatthewWilkes | J-NFurst1: I hope we get in too |
| 03:17.00 | MatthewWilkes | this bit of the year is bloody scary for me :) |
| 03:17.34 | skbohra | hehe |
| 03:17.37 | J-NFurst1 | haha |
| 03:17.53 | skbohra | think about us students :D |
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| 03:18.56 | J-NFurst1 | yeah, but it is still early for us |
| 03:19.03 | J-NFurst1 | we don't have application deadlines yet |
| 03:19.23 | J-NFurst1 | well applications open that is |
| 03:19.29 | MatthewWilkes | J-NFurst1: So, are you hoping to apply for a Plone project? |
| 03:19.39 | J-NFurst1 | yes, I would love to |
| 03:19.52 | MatthewWilkes | Awesome, got any ideas yet? |
| 03:20.56 | MatthewWilkes | (I'm not procrastinating, no sir-ee!) |
| 03:22.03 | J-NFurst1 | hehe, well actually after just hearing that plone was applying I just started dl'ing it again to play with the most recent version to get some ideas |
| 03:22.05 | J-NFurst1 | so none yet |
| 03:22.24 | J-NFurst1 | but it has been about a year or so since I last played with plone so I need to refresh myself |
| 03:23.07 | J-NFurst1 | but give me couple hours tonight and I am sure I will come up with a couple ideas, and if your still around I would love to discuss them with you |
| 03:23.22 | MatthewWilkes | J-NFurst1: By the most recent version do you mean the beta that was released yesterday? |
| 03:23.27 | MatthewWilkes | If not, try that one, it's really cool! |
| 03:24.05 | J-NFurst1 | hmm it was 3.3.4 let me find the beta |
| 03:24.17 | MatthewWilkes | J-NFurst1: Linux? |
| 03:24.22 | J-NFurst1 | yea |
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| 03:25.13 | MatthewWilkes | J-NFurst1: Then grab http://launchpad.net/plone/4.0/4.0a5/+download/Plone-4.0a5-UnifiedInstaller.tgz |
| 03:25.20 | J-NFurst1 | perfect |
| 03:25.45 | MatthewWilkes | J-NFurst1: It's pretty easy to upgrade it to the beta but the installers haven't been cut yet. It's just bug fixes, anyway, no new features |
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| 03:57.36 | LetterRip_ | how many devs actively participate in plone? |
| 03:58.36 | Akshay | i am very new to gsoc . how to start participate |
| 03:59.57 | J-NFurst | Akshay, are you a student or part of an organization? |
| 04:00.24 | MatthewWilkes | LetterRip_: According to ohloh there were 81 core contributors over the last year, but the plugin community is much bigger |
| 04:00.39 | LetterRip_ | ic |
| 04:01.11 | Akshay | J-NFurst: student |
| 04:02.12 | MatthewWilkes | LetterRip_: http://dev.plone.org/collective/browser is an interesting link - it's a pubic SVN repo for add-ons that anyone can get access to |
| 04:02.21 | MatthewWilkes | Gives a good idea of how many people are making addons |
| 04:02.37 | [mharrison] | read brianherman's signoff as "CAREER TERMINATED" |
| 04:03.54 | J-NFurst | Akshay: well as students we are just stuck waiting right now... The projects are currently applying, I believe their deadline is the 12th |
| 04:04.13 | skbohra | !orgsbylang |
| 04:04.14 | socinfo | "orgsbylang" is The 2009 list is work in progress: http://delicious.com/gsoc2009/bundle:Languages |
| 04:04.28 | skbohra | Akshay: ^ you may like to see this |
| 04:04.36 | skbohra | if you are yet to choose on org |
| 04:05.08 | skbohra | or to get an idea, i must say |
| 04:05.24 | ojwb | J-NFurst: you can usefully start to look at orgs which have applied |
| 04:05.33 | LetterRip_ | hmm interesting according to ohloh we are almost exactly 1/3 C, 1/3 C++, and 1/3 python |
| 04:05.42 | Akshay | skbohra: from where i have to choose org |
| 04:05.55 | LetterRip_ | the c++ and python is mostly from libraries though |
| 04:06.32 | MatthewWilkes | LetterRip_: What project are you? |
| 04:06.45 | LetterRip_ | Blender |
| 04:06.51 | J-NFurst | ojwb: how do we see which orgs have already applied, I thought that was private |
| 04:06.54 | LetterRip_ | https://www.ohloh.net/p/blender/analyses/latest |
| 04:07.16 | ojwb | J-NFurst: well, orgs don't tend to make a secret of it |
| 04:07.28 | J-NFurst | well that is probably true :) |
| 04:07.33 | MatthewWilkes | LetterRip_: Using Blender was my first and only experience of C++ |
| 04:07.47 | ojwb | orgs which have taken part before and have a good track record have a good chance of being accepted if they've applied this year |
| 04:07.58 | LetterRip_ | Hmm did you work on the gameengine? |
| 04:08.00 | ojwb | so that's somewhere to start |
| 04:08.13 | LetterRip_ | only usage of C++ is external libraries and the game engine |
| 04:08.17 | MatthewWilkes | LetterRip_: I was only a user, not a contributor |
| 04:08.22 | LetterRip_ | ah ok |
| 04:08.32 | LetterRip_ | well any modern GUI is almost always C++ |
| 04:08.46 | ojwb | e.g. google for the org's name with gsoc and 2010 and you'll probably find info about them applying this year if they are |
| 04:08.49 | LetterRip_ | most office software is also |
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| 04:11.52 | MatthewWilkes | LetterRip_: It was for my 3rd year university project. We made a game for a flight simulator, you played as a bumblebee, cell shaded, about 5 mins play time |
| 04:12.13 | MatthewWilkes | was quite nice, although it's ruined video games for me |
| 04:12.23 | LetterRip_ | ah neat |
| 04:12.23 | MatthewWilkes | seems too much like work now |
| 04:12.30 | [mharrison] | MatthewWilkes, playing as a to-scale bee in a physics-based flight sim would rock |
| 04:12.58 | MatthewWilkes | [mharrison]: We had to simplify the physics as people couldn't handle it |
| 04:13.08 | [mharrison] | Damn people |
| 04:13.26 | [mharrison] | I'm sure the CPU would have difficulty handling it on a bee too... |
| 04:14.24 | MatthewWilkes | The scariest bit was when I was sat in the simulator with a laptop telnetted into the interface server trying to calibrate everything |
| 04:14.41 | J-NFurst | haha |
| 04:14.53 | MatthewWilkes | Most flight simulators only use a tiny fraction of their range, we ended up using 25% of the available movement |
| 04:15.04 | [mharrison] | What was the sim? |
| 04:15.15 | MatthewWilkes | it scares the hell out of you moving the whole range, I tell you |
| 04:15.43 | MatthewWilkes | old photo, but: http://www.aer.bris.ac.uk/avionics/admiss/CS_motionpod.jpg |
| 04:16.16 | J-NFurst | nice setup |
| 04:16.33 | [mharrison] | Ok, yeah, playing a bee in that would kill you |
| 04:17.20 | MatthewWilkes | http://www.cert.fr/dcsd/TILT-ROTOR/RHILP/HQsim.html is something else that uses the same hardware |
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| 04:19.01 | [mharrison] | Landon, look at my horse! |
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| 04:20.01 | Landon | [mharrison]: WAT |
| 04:20.16 | Landon | What A Thoroughbred! |
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| 04:21.48 | MatthewWilkes | For any b3tards⦠http://www.deagostini.com.au/ilovehorses/ |
| 04:22.24 | rajat | thanks skbohra for the link |
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| 06:19.09 | codestr0m | lh doesn't seem to be online, but does she still come on irc or who would be a good contact? |
| 06:19.31 | ojwb | she's at a conference currently I believe |
| 06:19.36 | Catfish_Man | codestr0m: she's out this week, carols is probably a good person to talk to |
| 06:20.06 | ojwb | the generic contact email is ospoadmin@gmail.com |
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| 06:21.13 | codestr0m | Catfish_Man / ojwb thanks.. what I have to say about a certain organization I used to be involved with is private so it's why I'd mention it to her directly.. I'll just email. thanks |
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| 06:26.18 | scorche | smells drama |
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| 07:20.14 | creek23 | smells it too |
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| 07:44.46 | tomoj | hey all |
| 07:46.07 | tomoj | so, to be accepted as a mentoring organization, do you have to pay? |
| 07:48.49 | Catfish_Man | no |
| 07:48.53 | Catfish_Man | google pays you |
| 07:49.52 | Landon | but if you want to pay someone, it wouldn't hurt to pay me :) (it probably wouldn't help either, but that's not my problem!) |
| 07:50.11 | Dark_Shikari | lol |
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| 07:52.39 | creek23 | Landon: LOL |
| 07:52.53 | tomoj | I've realized my considered mentoring organization is too niche |
| 07:53.21 | tomoj | (the BPFK) |
| 07:53.55 | creek23 | Catfish_Man, pay me instead. it would probably help... but im not sure of it. |
| 07:54.18 | ojwb | BPFK? |
| 07:55.46 | garbeam | is it possible to assign more google accounts to an application of a mentoring org? |
| 07:56.23 | tomoj | ojwb: lojban definitional committee |
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| 07:56.48 | scorche | garbeam: for what putpose? |
| 07:57.26 | ojwb | garbeam: if you're accepted, you can add more admins and/or mentors |
| 07:57.28 | creek23 | to have mo assigned google accounts to an application of a mentoring org. |
| 07:57.31 | creek23 | thats what |
| 07:57.31 | creek23 | :D |
| 07:58.13 | garbeam | scorche: it would allow others in the same organisation to review and tune the application, perhaps an idea for future gsoc app? |
| 07:58.39 | scorche | garbeam: we use our own wiki for that, actually - then the admin submits it |
| 07:59.55 | garbeam | scorche: well we use our own wiki for the project ideas, however there is no reason why we should put the answers to all the application questions into our own wiki |
| 08:00.58 | garbeam | also why not requiring to assign mentors of a mentoring org already in the application phase, because then you can see a) if the claimed number of mentors is true and b) if the mentors also share interest in other orgs |
| 08:02.02 | scorche | garbeam: i never said you "should"...i merely said what my org does to satisfy your need - it works qute well for us, really and is way easier than making the Melange team put in a ton of extra work |
| 08:02.37 | garbeam | scorche: so your org did not apply yet? |
| 08:02.51 | scorche | no....it isnt like the day you submit really matters |
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| 08:03.24 | scorche | as long as we make sure it gets in before the deadline |
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| 08:04.47 | scorche | i cannot speak for the mentor-bit in an official "this is why" capacity, but i dont think that really matters, but it would be a lot of work done trying to get individual mentors to sign up and apply to be a mentor to only not have your org accepted |
| 08:06.56 | garbeam | scorche: well it would prove notability and significance of an org, esp. for new-comer orgs and make a havier weight application |
| 08:07.17 | garbeam | and my impression of last year was that it matter when you applied, but I can't prove this |
| 08:07.43 | scorche | where did you get that impression from? |
| 08:07.55 | kblin | I'd be very surprised if the time of application mattered.. after all that's what deadlines are fore |
| 08:07.58 | kblin | for |
| 08:08.33 | kblin | garbeam: actually it'd only prove that the org signed up many google accounts |
| 08:08.35 | scorche | and i dont think it would prove that...just because you get a bunch of people to sign up as a mentor proves nothing...there are plenty of other better methods to determine the health of an org |
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| 08:10.21 | garbeam | well that impression is more or less based on blue air, so which is why I wouldn't take it too seriously, but speaking of some experience in conference boards etc, there is a clear pattern that early applications have higher visibility if the response is great, and what I heared of gsoc last year is that there were many applications |
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| 08:11.02 | kblin | depends on the way the conference board is organized |
| 08:11.06 | garbeam | though I don't know how gsoc deals with it internally, if they view the applications strictly after the deadline then your approach is absolutely fine |
| 08:11.28 | garbeam | (but in my impression that's rarely the case) |
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| 08:12.23 | garbeam | kblin: well yes, but assumed you have a list of mentors you can search for the names if they have some evidence that they exist, I mean Google must know quite well if some name is a real person or just an invention |
| 08:12.31 | scorche | they go over each application in a room with a number of people in it after the deadline |
| 08:12.55 | kblin | garbeam: whoa, you know how many people run gsoc? |
| 08:13.31 | garbeam | kblin: no I don't |
| 08:13.32 | scorche | garbeam: it still doesnt say much about the health of an org compared to say, how long the org has been around, version control statistics, community level, ohloh, etc |
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| 08:14.42 | garbeam | scorche: yea, it only tells some story indirectly |
| 08:15.05 | scorche | and would be a massive waste of alreayd stretched resources |
| 08:15.29 | garbeam | well, I'm sure one could easily automate this to some degree |
| 08:15.43 | scorche | and it still would be a massive waste of effort imo |
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| 08:16.33 | garbeam | it would just add an automated factor to each application, you could use sum(log(#google hits)) of the mentor names |
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| 08:16.54 | garbeam | and generate a graph of the mentor names to identify multiple interests |
| 08:16.58 | kblin | garbeam: you don't have to enter a name to a google account |
| 08:16.59 | scorche | and that really wouldnt tell them anything of use |
| 08:17.04 | garbeam | dunno if that's a big time waste |
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| 08:18.31 | kblin | garbeam: and how is "mentors who offer to mentor for multiple orgs" a bad thing? (you seem to imply that) |
| 08:18.43 | thebolt | Morning |
| 08:18.48 | kblin | morning thebolt |
| 08:18.56 | scorche | garbeam: also, you might be interested in http://groups.google.com/group/google-summer-of-code-announce/web/notes-on-organization-selection-criteria |
| 08:18.58 | garbeam | kblin: not in the current process |
| 08:19.00 | thebolt | slept in today.. all the time until 7:15 |
| 08:19.18 | ojwb | if the org can't be trusted to tell the truth in their application, their unlikely to prosper |
| 08:19.32 | ojwb | they're |
| 08:19.34 | ojwb | gah |
| 08:19.54 | garbeam | kblin: but it would give an idea at least about how many mentors are available, hence you will have a rough idea how many projects could be sponsored |
| 08:20.21 | kblin | garbeam: looking at it the other way around, if google went all gestapo on me just to fund some development for my org, I'd probably not bother |
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| 08:20.49 | garbeam | kblin: yes that's a good counter-argument, oh well |
| 08:21.24 | scorche | garbeam: how many slots are allocated is way down the line on the process...and mostly determined by student applications...the org requests how amny they think they can handle/willing to work with |
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| 08:22.36 | kblin | garbeam: you'd be surprised how much you'd have to kick your mentors to sign up if they didn't get a student for their proposals the last few years :) |
| 08:22.52 | garbeam | scorche: but wasn't a critic in GSoC many times that mentors were poor or didn't invest enough time? |
| 08:23.01 | thebolt | kblin: must be just iny our orgs ;) |
| 08:23.18 | thebolt | your* |
| 08:23.22 | kblin | garbeam: I don't see how signing mentors up earlier improves their quality |
| 08:23.29 | scorche | either |
| 08:23.31 | thebolt | otoh, we always filled the mentors with students ;) |
| 08:23.54 | kblin | thebolt: that's a big difference |
| 08:24.39 | thebolt | kblin: yea, but in our case I think it is more collective process also.. the people doing the proposal does not map 1:1 to the one who ends up mentoring it |
| 08:24.40 | J-NFurst | what projects are you guys from |
| 08:24.55 | kblin | thebolt: but if you filled out all those forms for year after year for nothing, you're likely to think "I'd rather spend my time writing this cool new feature I'm working on" |
| 08:25.07 | thebolt | kblin: sure |
| 08:25.20 | scorche | J-NFurst: being that there are currently 228 users in here, i dont think it is that wise to ask such an open-ended question ;) |
| 08:25.25 | garbeam | kblin: well I can see at least a relationship of #mentors to max. projects, regardless the students, or it is no news that some university with big classes will usually perform worse than a uni with small classes |
| 08:25.54 | thebolt | kblin: but we're so small that there is pretty much an equality between the groups "people who care enough about the project to bother spending a lot of time on it", "people who are considered core developers" and "mentors" ;) |
| 08:25.56 | scorche | J-NFurst: however, many organisations utilise cloaks on freenode, so you can often times do a /whois on a user you are curious about and often see which project they might belong to |
| 08:26.10 | kblin | garbeam: don't even get me started on the folly of university rankings the way they're done now |
| 08:26.38 | garbeam | kblin: no don't but it's just common sense ;) |
| 08:26.46 | scorche | garbeam: but max projects dont factor into the equation until much later when slots are allocated... |
| 08:27.17 | kblin | garbeam: for all I know, fyodor from nmap mentored 5+ students every year during the first years of GSoC |
| 08:27.24 | garbeam | yes I know, I mean what I'm proposing is perhaps the bottom-up process instead of the current top-down approach ;) |
| 08:27.43 | kblin | and I haven't heard complaints about nmap being a lousy mentoring org, quite the contrary |
| 08:28.08 | ojwb | garbeam: but how would that improve things? |
| 08:28.43 | garbeam | ojwb: I was just thinking that it might simplify the application process for the reviewers a bit |
| 08:28.48 | ojwb | I suspect few orgs can accurately say "we can mentor X projects" |
| 08:28.57 | ojwb | because it depends on what students apply for |
| 08:29.05 | garbeam | I mean an org that doesn't bother about mentors before application can't be taken seriously or could it? |
| 08:29.14 | kblin | thebolt: looking at this from a perspective where most developers are paid to work on the project full-time, there's a difference there |
| 08:29.27 | ojwb | well, you need to know that you can field enough mentors to be viable |
| 08:29.27 | thebolt | kblin: definitely |
| 08:29.36 | thebolt | kblin: which is part fo the whole one-size-does-not-fit-all-for-gsoc |
| 08:29.45 | ojwb | but if you are (say) KDE, then making a list of people doesn't really help that |
| 08:29.53 | garbeam | ojwb: or let me say this, a couple of years ago I mentored for an org that I never worked with before and I had no record whatsoever in that org |
| 08:30.20 | ojwb | garbeam: I'd be dubious of allowing that as an org admin |
| 08:31.00 | scorche | me as well... |
| 08:31.15 | kblin | ojwb: I had a similar situation last year, where a student was working on a gstreamer plugin for wine and a gstreamer developer offered to mentor.. went great |
| 08:31.24 | ojwb | we had a comentor from another org last year, for a project related to two orgs |
| 08:32.16 | garbeam | all I can say is that I worked in a similar area as well as the project I mentored later on, but I didn't work for that org before etc -- I guess this is not so uncommon |
| 08:32.21 | ojwb | in the larger orgs, the admins won't know of many of the mentors though |
| 08:32.27 | kblin | garbeam: anyway, I agree with ojwb and scorche that this is the org's problem, not google's |
| 08:33.03 | ojwb | garbeam: did the student do well? |
| 08:33.19 | garbeam | yes he still does pretty well in that org ;) |
| 08:33.28 | ojwb | well, that worked out then |
| 08:33.48 | garbeam | but it was down to him, he was very good and I didn't have much to do |
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| 08:34.33 | ojwb | the mentor who I was most disappointed so far with is actually someone I've known for years, and used to work with |
| 08:34.53 | ojwb | he just got too busy with work, but took a while to tell us |
| 08:35.06 | ojwb | and the student needed a lot of help |
| 08:35.49 | garbeam | oh that is sad |
| 08:35.55 | scorche | that is why we try to have the student use the community as a first line-of-defence...and have backup mentors =) |
| 08:36.38 | ojwb | well, luckily I had a dream student, so was able to step in and turn around his, so it worked out well in the end |
| 08:37.29 | Catfish_Man | I did that once. 'twas one of the things that woke me up to the fact that we no longer had the resources and attention to be a mentoring org |
| 08:38.29 | kblin | Catfish_Man: though you could possibly join in under the umbrella of another org |
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| 08:39.15 | Catfish_Man | kblin: eh... pidgin *maybe* |
| 08:39.31 | Catfish_Man | but fundamentally, anyone who isn't an experienced cocoa programmer is going to have issues mentoring an adium student |
| 08:39.38 | aghisla | it is not a big problem if it's known.. the student should not feel abandoned, and [s]he doesn't if the mentor tells [s]he's busy. the community can fill up the gap nicely. |
| 08:39.41 | kblin | right |
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| 08:40.14 | kblin | in theory :) |
| 08:40.30 | Catfish_Man | anyway, bedtime |
| 08:40.32 | Catfish_Man | 'night everyone |
| 08:40.33 | kblin | in theory, theory and practice are identical, in practice however... |
| 08:44.08 | garbeam | another question is this: why do you think mentoring orgs are necessary at all? wouldn't mentors + project ideas just do well? |
| 08:44.34 | thiago | who would receive the money? |
| 08:44.43 | thiago | who would judge the proposals? |
| 08:45.21 | thebolt | having an "extra layer" also makes the administraiton much easier (for google), i think.. |
| 08:45.36 | thebolt | having to deal directly with X thousand mentors VS a hundred or two orgs |
| 08:45.47 | kblin | so google just has to deal with 150-odd admins instead of .. what thebolt said |
| 08:46.09 | thebolt | i don't remember how many mentors there were last year exactly, but on average more than one per org ;) |
| 08:46.27 | kblin | garbeam: gsoc is run by two people, who both also have other work at google |
| 08:46.39 | thiago | KDE had more mentors lined-up and ready than students |
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| 08:47.06 | kblin | thiago: I assume many larger orgs had that |
| 08:47.14 | ojwb | 999 accepted students, so at least 999 mentors |
| 08:48.11 | kblin | thiago: most of samba's application were for two proposals, mentored by the same person. so basically 90% of our mentors were not needed :) |
| 08:48.30 | thiago | that happens, yeah |
| 08:48.39 | thiago | we'll see this year for Qt. I'm introducing it for the first time. |
| 08:48.49 | thiago | I'll submit the proposal in the morning. |
| 08:48.57 | thiago | I mean application (the org application) |
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| 08:50.24 | garbeam | well mentors shouldn't receive any money, I'm doing it for fun |
| 08:50.45 | thiago | KDE mentors don't receive money |
| 08:50.52 | garbeam | so that's not the problem, but I agree there is some advantage to have self-organising orgs in the game ;) |
| 08:50.57 | thiago | however, the KDE e.V. does and the money is used to pay for developer sprints |
| 08:51.09 | thiago | sometimes, they include GSoC students |
| 08:51.49 | kblin | WorldForge passes on the money to the mentors, as we have no entity that could receive money for "the project" |
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| 08:52.24 | kblin | last year, we pretty much used it to pay for the mentor summit extra costs google didn't cover, and some hosting |
| 08:52.30 | garbeam | what I implied with my question was that stripping the orgs out would potentially give smaller orgs an opportunity to get some students for really interesting projects |
| 08:52.30 | thiago | Qt will most likely waive all money |
| 08:54.39 | ojwb | garbeam: smaller orgs can often find a suitable umbrella org |
| 08:54.51 | kblin | garbeam: dunno, I mentored while I still was a student, during a time where I could have gotten some other job as well, the $500 helped pay for tuition |
| 08:55.37 | kblin | I'd be surprised if I was the only one |
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| 08:56.19 | kblin | I still did it for the fun of it, if I was looking for money, I'd have applied as a student :) |
| 08:56.33 | garbeam | kblin: well I spend man years in writing open source software for free and I enjoyed it more then the work I get paid for, ideally I enjoy mentoring the same ;) |
| 08:57.06 | garbeam | but nobody will be sad if he gets some money, sure |
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| 08:58.05 | kblin | garbeam: that's likely true for most mentors involved in gsoc |
| 08:58.17 | kblin | anyway, back to work.. :) |
| 08:58.32 | garbeam | yup, thx for your time! |
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| 09:02.51 | ojwb | can't remember the last time he wrote something which wasn't FOSS |
| 09:03.10 | ojwb | you just need to find the right job... |
| 09:03.19 | thebolt | did yesterday.. haven't got there yet today though :P |
| 09:03.34 | garbeam | ojwb: I'm founding my own company to have the right job ;) |
| 09:03.58 | ojwb | garbeam: that's what I did |
| 09:06.12 | garbeam | ojwb: did it work out well? |
| 09:06.34 | garbeam | the only problem I see is finding your first customers, isn't it? |
| 09:07.17 | ojwb | well, I'm still doing it nearly 10 years later |
| 09:07.39 | ojwb | and yes, it helps a lot to have a client or two lined up |
| 09:07.58 | ojwb | or to have a plan to cope if you don't |
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| 09:23.32 | skbohra | dreams of a open source startup some day :D |
| 09:23.38 | ebo | LetterRip_: you might want to take a look at your code analysis. I just noticed that the Fortran (Free-format) has -4 blank lines in it, and Make has -5,368 lines with 6,597 lines of comments. I think that FORTRAN scared all the comments away 8-S |
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| 09:55.45 | alina | hello |
| 09:56.07 | alina | I'm having some doubts about the application process for a mentoring organization |
| 09:56.35 | Ivanovic | doubts? |
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| 09:58.56 | alina | In the paragraph 1.5 of the GSoC participation agreement say that for taxations purposes the mentoring organization should send a tax form |
| 09:59.11 | Ivanovic | yes |
| 09:59.29 | Ivanovic | at the end, when the orgs do get payment you (as org) have to send in a tax form |
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| 09:59.51 | Ivanovic | the students do get money and the mentor org gets some little money (500$) for each mentored student, too |
| 10:00.53 | Ivanovic | at that point google is required to gather the tax info, since a payment takes place |
| 10:01.28 | alina | so, this is not part of the application process? because the paragraph I mentioned also says "Please note that your Application will not be considered complete until Google has received your W9 or Foreign Certification form" |
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| 10:01.52 | Ivanovic | in the last years that was not required before but afterwards |
| 10:01.59 | Ivanovic | and i assume it will be the same this time |
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| 10:05.50 | alina | ok, I have already submitted an application form as a mentoring organization. is there any way to know if my application will be considered complete by google? |
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| 10:07.26 | Ivanovic | that should be everything for the moment |
| 10:07.52 | Ivanovic | if things were different i would at least have expected to eg get an explicit link to the forms and these things mentioned on the ml |
| 10:08.08 | Ivanovic | kblin: do you know anything specific regarding this W5 stuff? |
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| 10:11.09 | Ivanovic | alina: "You will be given the appropriate form and instructions for sending the completed document to Google as part of the Application process." |
| 10:11.28 | Ivanovic | alina: since there are no instructions so far i'd say that this point is a case of "not applicable yet" |
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| 10:12.41 | Raim | I guess this is a legal thing, so Google can still drop your organization if you cannot provide this tax form or something like this. but in the past that was only required at the end for payment |
| 10:14.12 | Ivanovic | unlikely that it will happen in the setup process due to time constraints |
| 10:14.27 | Ivanovic | the google open source people only have less than a week to review all applications |
| 10:14.39 | kblin | alina: from a data privacy point of view, I wouldn't submit any tax info to google until I need that so they can pay me :) |
| 10:14.43 | Ivanovic | it is unlikely that they can and will request tax forms in this short time |
| 10:15.30 | kblin | certainly not before my org is accepted |
| 10:15.38 | alina | Raim, Ivanovic: OK, thanks for the help, is there any official way to confirm this or should I simply trust it would work like that |
| 10:15.50 | kblin | !faq |
| 10:15.51 | socinfo | "faq" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs |
| 10:17.06 | kblin | or more specifically http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs#org_docs |
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| 10:27.15 | alina | kblin, thanks, I tried to join the group mentioned in the FAQ a few days ago but my subscription is still pending for approval. I've just e-mailed the owner explaining my doubt. |
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| 10:27.36 | alina | Ivanovic, Raim, kblin: thanks again for the help |
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| 10:57.26 | Waren | yo |
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| 13:37.47 | rajat1 | where do we first propose willingness to work on some proposed idea |
| 13:38.45 | Raim | talk to the specific project |
| 13:38.55 | Raim | s/project/organization/ |
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| 13:40.25 | sfb | Working with the organization you want to work on the idea for is the best first step. The earlier the better. |
| 13:41.11 | rajat1 | sure. for instance i would want to work with sip communicator but their irc channel is dead |
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| 13:41.59 | creek23 | rajat: tried the mailing list? |
| 13:42.02 | creek23 | eek. |
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| 13:43.45 | sfb | rajat1: http://www.sip-communicator.org/index.php/Development/MailingLists |
| 13:45.15 | rajat1 | thanks sfb |
| 13:45.34 | ojwb | rajat1: also, the people on irc may be in different timezones to you, so try a different time of day |
| 13:45.59 | rajat1 | ofcourse |
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| 13:46.40 | sfb | I know in NeL we're sporadic so it helps to lurk there for a few hours if you have the time. |
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| 13:47.18 | sfb | Specifically because of the time zones. |
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| 13:57.14 | rajat1 | im in high school and will join college in july'10. i am 18 already. am i eligible for gsoc |
| 13:58.29 | cronco | i think you have to be enrolled by may 24th,iirc |
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| 14:17.32 | rajat1 | i checked the rules. its april 26 in fact |
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| 14:53.27 | cbmuser | hi, I have registered our project for GSoC for the first time; anyone can tell me what else we need to take care of? |
| 14:53.59 | cbmuser | I'm just a bit afraid I forgot something or so |
| 14:54.23 | cbmuser | it's very exciting to wait for the feedback (: |
| 14:54.25 | skbohra | cbmuser: which project it is ? |
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| 14:55.21 | loufoque_ | cbmuser: go to a temple and sacrifice a virgin to up your chances |
| 14:55.33 | cbmuser | LOL |
| 14:55.51 | cbmuser | skbohra: linux-minidisc (yes, it's rather small ;)) |
| 14:56.13 | cbmuser | but we're without competition ;) |
| 14:56.21 | cbmuser | regarding the software |
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| 14:57.53 | skbohra | cbmuser: looking for a link |
| 14:58.17 | cbmuser | sorry, I thought you had access to the database ;) |
| 14:58.20 | cbmuser | here you go: |
| 14:58.29 | cbmuser | https://wiki.physik.fu-berlin.de/linux-minidisc/doku.php |
| 14:58.39 | skbohra | i am a potential student actually :D |
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| 14:59.47 | cbmuser | skbohra: great ;) |
| 15:00.06 | cbmuser | our task list: https://wiki.physik.fu-berlin.de/linux-minidisc/doku.php?id=googlesummerofcode |
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| 15:13.06 | rajanaresh | hi |
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| 15:15.41 | skbohra | i wanted to say hi :( |
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| 15:51.03 | cbmuser | skbohra: you were probably 20 seconds too late ;) |
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| 15:53.45 | kblin | cbmuser: sounds like a fun project, btw |
| 15:56.06 | cbmuser | kblin: thanks! |
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| 16:02.04 | cbmuser | kblin: do you have some tips? I have registered the first time |
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| 16:04.12 | sfb | That's funny. |
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| 16:04.22 | sfb | I just found my mini disc player this weekend. |
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| 16:05.14 | cbmuser | kblin: I'm afraid I forgot something when registering |
| 16:05.27 | sfb | You can edit it until tomorrow afternoon. |
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| 16:05.46 | cbmuser | ok |
| 16:05.56 | cbmuser | but is there anything else I need? |
| 16:06.14 | sfb | What do you mean? |
| 16:06.17 | cbmuser | is sorry if he is asking stupid questions which have obvious answers ;) |
| 16:06.35 | sfb | http://dev.ryzom.com/projects/nel/wiki/GSoC2010 |
| 16:06.40 | sfb | Here's our "home page" for GSoC 2010 |
| 16:06.47 | cbmuser | thanks! |
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| 16:08.26 | dkumar | I am gettingInvalid XSRF token while submitting the form for mentoring organisation |
| 16:08.26 | dkumar | ? |
| 16:08.33 | dkumar | "Invalid XSRF token" |
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| 16:10.21 | cbmuser | sfb: I'm reading your link, very helpful |
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| 16:11.55 | ksinkar | what criteria does google use for selecting organizations? |
| 16:12.10 | ksinkar | for the gsoc program |
| 16:12.36 | araujo | I think they have never made publicly any official comments about that |
| 16:13.16 | ksinkar | what bout speculations? |
| 16:14.10 | sfb | I think the main things are your org app, a student application template (optional but helpful if you want specific info) and your ideas list. |
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| 16:14.51 | araujo | some criteria I have noticed during these years are: how many users/projects could benefit from the organization, and if the organization offers something new or innovative that attracts some of the google people |
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| 16:15.44 | araujo | ksinkar, that is my speculation :) |
| 16:15.47 | cbmuser | sfb: your template looks very nice, do you mind if I ... ;) |
| 16:15.57 | cbmuser | I mean, the application template |
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| 16:16.05 | sfb | ksinkar: http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/orgcriteria |
| 16:16.31 | sfb | cbmuser: Help yourself. |
| 16:16.39 | sfb | Blender has some good material as well. |
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| 16:17.20 | ksinkar | thankx |
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| 16:19.37 | cbmuser | sfb: thank you very much! |
| 16:21.43 | sfb | cbmuser: no problem. |
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| 16:24.29 | ksinkar | where is that list of organizations ideas and their classification? |
| 16:24.34 | ksinkar | can someone give me the link |
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| 16:33.40 | sfb | ksinkar: You mean the one from 2009? |
| 16:34.10 | sfb | ksinkar: http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2009 |
| 16:34.24 | sfb | That's all of the accepted orgs from 2009 and links to their ideas page. |
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| 16:34.50 | sfb | Hi Kaetemi |
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| 16:41.25 | sfb | Is BZFlag not participating this year? I can't findany mention of SoC 2010 on their site/wiki. |
| 16:41.28 | sfb | Just 2009. |
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| 16:58.11 | Sir_Gallantmon | I have a question about how students will submit code in the GSoC |
| 16:58.25 | Sir_Gallantmon | how exactly will student code submissions be handled? |
| 16:58.48 | Sir_Gallantmon | does Google provide a repository for students to import code and work in or something? |
| 16:59.24 | danderson | it's up to the orgs, not Google |
| 16:59.40 | danderson | you're working for the open source orgs, each org has a different way of doing things |
| 16:59.50 | araujo | Sir_Gallantmon, and at the end, google post the instructions of how to send the code to them |
| 17:00.21 | danderson | oh, yeah, there is some thing at the end where you submit the code you wrote back to google, just for the record |
| 17:00.24 | araujo | it is pretty much uploading a tarball with your code at the end, so not big deal |
| 17:00.35 | danderson | but the bulk of the development happens the way the org wants |
| 17:00.39 | danderson | not the way google wants |
| 17:00.42 | araujo | right |
| 17:00.54 | araujo | you develop using the tools and the method of your org |
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| 17:10.12 | Sir_Gallantmon | ahh ok |
| 17:10.35 | chida | hello all |
| 17:10.51 | Sir_Gallantmon | I thought that Google might require people to use Google Code repositories to work in, considering the enforced requirement for the Google Accounts since 2006 |
| 17:11.38 | Sir_Gallantmon | not really a problem for my org, since we have a Mercurial mirror of our main Mercurial repository in Google Code so that it integrates with the issue tracker |
| 17:11.39 | Catfish_Man | that would definitely annoy a lot of mentoring organizations, since they'd have to do cross VCS merging |
| 17:12.02 | Sir_Gallantmon | cross-VCS stuff can be a pain |
| 17:12.09 | chida | i have applied for participation as an organization, how do i know my application is received successfully? |
| 17:12.32 | chida | i have not received any email confirming receipt of the application |
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| 17:12.33 | Sir_Gallantmon | chida, it should show up on the list of Applications for Organizations |
| 17:13.11 | Sir_Gallantmon | chida: http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/org_app/list_self/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/orgapp |
| 17:13.23 | Sir_Gallantmon | that links you to applications for orgs where you are the admin or backup admin |
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| 17:14.01 | Sir_Gallantmon | one of these days, I'm gonna get the SVN, Git, and Bzr mirrors set up and working properly |
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| 17:15.40 | Sir_Gallantmon | thankfully, Mercurial has rather nice support for SVN and Git |
| 17:15.50 | Sir_Gallantmon | through the hugsubversion and hg-git extensions |
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| 17:17.26 | Raim | the application can be edited again until the deadline, right? |
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| 17:18.22 | edwardk | Sir_Gallantmon: most of the haskell projects we work on are maintained in darcs, so i'm glad they don't force a repository format =) |
| 17:19.02 | Sir_Gallantmon | Raim: yes |
| 17:19.10 | Sir_Gallantmon | edwardk, oh god, that would be horrible |
| 17:19.13 | Raim | alright :) |
| 17:19.29 | Sir_Gallantmon | darcs doesn't seem to be easily convertable to other systems |
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| 17:20.48 | edwardk | Sir_Gallantmon: theoretically, david roundy has been working on a porcelain for git to make git act a bit more like darcs, but yeah, it is a bit alien. |
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| 17:25.47 | Sir_Gallantmon | personally, I'd like to be able to manipulate darcs repos in Mercurial, since I have a couple of C/C++ projects that unfortunately use darcs |
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| 17:26.03 | Sir_Gallantmon | I say unfortunately because my system is already polluted with different SCM isntallations |
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| 17:26.12 | Sir_Gallantmon | s/isntallations/installations/ |
| 17:26.23 | Sir_Gallantmon | I have Perforce, Mercurial, SVN, CVS, and Bazaar installed |
| 17:26.41 | Sir_Gallantmon | I don't really want to install any more SCMs on my computer ;) |
| 17:26.45 | edwardk | heh |
| 17:26.57 | Catfish_Man | has cvs 1.10 installed, among other strange things :P |
| 17:27.08 | Sir_Gallantmon | I used to have more SCMs installed on my computer |
| 17:27.22 | Sir_Gallantmon | but most of them were centralized SCMs and I was able to set up importers to import into SVN |
| 17:27.25 | edwardk | i mostly wind up getting away with using git or darcs, with a pretty clean separation of using darcs for all my haskell projects, and git for anything else. |
| 17:27.28 | lut4rp | ohey friends from another world! |
| 17:27.52 | Sir_Gallantmon | I'm hoping to avoid Git, really |
| 17:28.10 | Sir_Gallantmon | I feel like I die a little inside everytime I use either Git or CVS.... |
| 17:28.16 | edwardk | a laudable goal =) |
| 17:28.27 | lut4rp | wat |
| 17:28.34 | micahcowan | Sir_Gallantmon, I mostly agree with you, though git >>>>>>>> CVS |
| 17:28.38 | lut4rp | Someone just said git and death together. |
| 17:28.44 | micahcowan | * > CVS, for that matter |
| 17:28.45 | lut4rp | No. |
| 17:28.48 | lut4rp | Git > * |
| 17:28.52 | lut4rp | :) |
| 17:28.55 | Sir_Gallantmon | CVS's checkout model is just extremely painful |
| 17:29.02 | Catfish_Man | Concurrent Versions System (CVS) 1.10 `Halibut' (client/server) |
| 17:29.02 | Catfish_Man | Copyright (c) 1989-1998... |
| 17:29.04 | Sir_Gallantmon | Perforce improves it a little bit, but not much |
| 17:29.14 | Catfish_Man | yes, THAT old a version :( |
| 17:29.17 | micahcowan | Matter of opinion, obviously. git > a vast majority of things, mebbe, but I definitely prefer Hg personally. |
| 17:29.26 | micahcowan | Sir_Gallantmon, /me using Perforce at work :~-( |
| 17:29.28 | Sir_Gallantmon | unfortunately, I'm stuck with Perforce because of schoolwork |
| 17:29.35 | Catfish_Man | anyway, time to get off the shuttle bus |
| 17:29.38 | Catfish_Man | later folks |
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| 17:30.06 | Sir_Gallantmon | my lab partner uses Visual Studio, and I can't and don't want to |
| 17:30.25 | Sir_Gallantmon | as a result, I had to look for one that has good VS integration |
| 17:30.32 | Sir_Gallantmon | so Perforce was my choice... |
| 17:30.59 | Sir_Gallantmon | fortunately, Mercurial quite recently gained a very reliable Perforce depot manipulator extension |
| 17:31.09 | Sir_Gallantmon | it can import and sync to Perforce depots |
| 17:31.38 | Sir_Gallantmon | however, it requires p4 to be installed, so I still had to keep Perforce installed :( |
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| 17:32.12 | Sir_Gallantmon | Git is just very awkward |
| 17:32.27 | Sir_Gallantmon | I come from a background of using mostly CVS and SVN |
| 17:32.43 | Sir_Gallantmon | and Git is very strange for me to use |
| 17:32.53 | Sir_Gallantmon | worse, Git has near zero Windows support |
| 17:33.03 | lut4rp | Excuse me? No way sir! |
| 17:33.11 | lut4rp | plz2see msysGit |
| 17:33.19 | lut4rp | the support now is fine. |
| 17:33.19 | Sir_Gallantmon | that qualifies are near zero |
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| 17:33.43 | Sir_Gallantmon | msysGit is essentially Git compiled into an extremely outdated version of Cygwin to work on Windows |
| 17:34.04 | Sir_Gallantmon | s/are/as/ |
| 17:34.21 | lut4rp | Uh, so what would qualify as support? |
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| 17:34.38 | Sir_Gallantmon | a true native client that can integrate with non-Java IDEs |
| 17:34.56 | Sir_Gallantmon | one that runs at the reputed speed of Git on Linux |
| 17:35.14 | Sir_Gallantmon | Git's speed is well known |
| 17:35.19 | Sir_Gallantmon | on Windows... just no... |
| 17:35.25 | Sir_Gallantmon | Git is quite slow on Windows |
| 17:35.33 | lut4rp | Certainly not "quite slow"/ |
| 17:35.37 | lut4rp | I've used it |
| 17:35.40 | Sir_Gallantmon | compared to the Linux version, yes it is |
| 17:35.44 | Sir_Gallantmon | so have I |
| 17:36.08 | lut4rp | compared to the linux version, yeah, true. |
| 17:36.10 | lut4rp | hmm. |
| 17:36.21 | lut4rp | apply to SOC with Git :) |
| 17:36.28 | Sir_Gallantmon | there are efforts to reimplement the entire Git client as a C# project |
| 17:36.31 | Sir_Gallantmon | to me, that qualifies |
| 17:36.33 | lut4rp | wqat |
| 17:36.36 | lut4rp | ugh |
| 17:36.51 | lut4rp | that sounds... polluted to me. |
| 17:37.01 | Sir_Gallantmon | since Mono can compile C# down to true native code, it will be just as fast, if not faster than Git on Linux |
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| 17:37.34 | tseiff | who * |
| 17:37.37 | tseiff | who |
| 17:37.43 | lut4rp | me? |
| 17:37.43 | edwardk | Sir_Gallantmon: actually the git extensions for visual studio are pretty good |
| 17:37.59 | Catfish_Man | new office is a much shorter walk from the bus. woot :) |
| 17:38.13 | tseiff | sorry first time, the / instinct isn't there yet |
| 17:38.19 | Sir_Gallantmon | http://www.eqqon.com/index.php/GitSharp |
| 17:38.47 | edwardk | http://sourceforge.net/projects/gitextensions/ |
| 17:39.35 | lut4rp | tseiff, no problemo :) |
| 17:39.36 | edwardk | hands tseiff an extra couple of spare /'s to get him started. |
| 17:39.56 | Sir_Gallantmon | the extensions are great |
| 17:39.59 | Sir_Gallantmon | but the core of it sucks |
| 17:40.02 | Sir_Gallantmon | its based on msysGit |
| 17:40.40 | ihalip | does anyone know if there's a list of organisations who already applied? |
| 17:40.43 | Sir_Gallantmon | it works by firing commands to msysGit and interpreting output |
| 17:40.55 | edwardk | i mostly just use them long enough to get stuff checked in or out and deal with the repository from unix land ;) |
| 17:41.31 | edwardk | ack, that reminds me i should actually submit the application for haskell for this year. |
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| 17:42.35 | Sir_Gallantmon | since Mercurial has very good support for importing and syncing Git repos now, I'll probably add the extension and deal with Git repos that way |
| 17:42.56 | Sir_Gallantmon | it doesn't even need Git itself to work :) |
| 17:43.57 | edwardk | i've yet to have a good reason to get acquainted with mercurial. |
| 17:43.57 | Sir_Gallantmon | it also apparently has a Visual Studio SCC plugin |
| 17:43.57 | Sir_Gallantmon | VisualHG ( http://visualhg.codeplex.com ) |
| 17:44.16 | carols | morning catfish_man! |
| 17:44.26 | Catfish_Man | g'morning carols :) |
| 17:44.50 | Sir_Gallantmon | I hope my organization is accepted for the GSoC |
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| 17:45.43 | Sir_Gallantmon | it's small, but we're really enthusiastic about the GSoC |
| 17:45.47 | Sir_Gallantmon | we almost applied last year |
| 17:46.00 | Sir_Gallantmon | but then we started working on the YubiKing contest |
| 17:46.40 | Sir_Gallantmon | and basically forgot about GSoC |
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| 17:48.51 | edwardk | Sir_Gallantmon: that might be enough of a reason for me to actually give it a shot. the git extensions are just sort of bolted on |
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| 17:49.32 | tseiff | so does everyone use the same channel here? |
| 17:50.23 | tseiff | is it just one big room for all gsoc stuff? |
| 17:50.36 | Catfish_Man | tseiff: this channel is for general summer of code stuff. Individual mentoring organizations run their own channel |
| 17:50.48 | tseiff | cool, i see |
| 17:51.10 | Catfish_Man | many of which predate soc |
| 17:51.16 | edwardk | Sir_Gallantmon: We've had a lot of good experiences with gsoc. A lot of good developers have come out of or been refined by the process. |
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| 17:51.57 | edwardk | I think the darcs folks are actually going to see if they can branch off as their own org, rather than fall under the haskell community's umbrella though this year. |
| 17:52.01 | Sir_Gallantmon | I've heard that GSoC is unlikely to accept small orgs, but I applied anyways |
| 17:52.18 | edwardk | In light of your comment, I'm curious to see how that will work out for them |
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| 17:52.40 | Sir_Gallantmon | there are some orgs that never get accepted, like ReactOS |
| 17:52.54 | Sir_Gallantmon | they usually have to sneak their projects under the umbrella of other orgs |
| 17:53.02 | rafael-ec | Sir_Gallantmon: why ReactOS has never been accepted? |
| 17:53.08 | Sir_Gallantmon | no one knows |
| 17:53.09 | Catfish_Man | there's usually a good collection of 1-3 slot orgs |
| 17:53.20 | Igbanam | hi guys |
| 17:53.27 | Sir_Gallantmon | Google never gives a reason why they don't accept ReactOS, as far as I know |
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| 17:53.36 | Sir_Gallantmon | and ReactOS has a applied every year for the last few years |
| 17:53.49 | Mek | afaik google has been given reasons to whoever asked for the past couple of years... |
| 17:54.00 | rafael-ec | It is a big project, as far as I know. |
| 17:54.26 | Sir_Gallantmon | ReactOS has nearly 40 constantly active developers, which is considered midsize I think |
| 17:54.50 | Catfish_Man | that would be fairly large by most standards |
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| 17:55.03 | Sir_Gallantmon | the thing that irks them the most is that the Wine project is always accepted |
| 17:55.19 | Mek | Sir_Gallantmon: so did they ask why they were not accepted? |
| 17:55.24 | Sir_Gallantmon | No idea |
| 17:55.40 | Jeff_S | Sir_Gallantmon: I'm sure if they asked directly they would get an honest answer |
| 17:55.55 | Sir_Gallantmon | comments in the ros-dev mailing list seem to make me think that they've been rebuffed or something |
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| 17:56.15 | Sir_Gallantmon | I don't really know, so take it all with a grain of salt |
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| 17:57.43 | Sir_Gallantmon | hmm, wait |
| 17:57.47 | Sir_Gallantmon | they had a spot in 2006 |
| 17:58.48 | Sir_Gallantmon | but they were denied in 2007, 2008, and 2009 |
| 17:59.06 | Sir_Gallantmon | being an OS project seems not to be the issue |
| 17:59.09 | Sir_Gallantmon | since Haiku OS is accepted every year |
| 17:59.24 | Catfish_Man | Sir_Gallantmon: could be they screwed it up in '06 |
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| 18:00.00 | Sir_Gallantmon | apparently they got autogenerated denial emails each year since |
| 18:00.11 | Sir_Gallantmon | well, all the pages regarding GSoC 2006 are gone |
| 18:00.22 | Sir_Gallantmon | so I don't know |
| 18:00.25 | Mek | and apparently they couldn't be bothered to go ask why they were denied like many of the other organisations did |
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| 18:00.40 | kblin | Sir_Gallantmon: I guess every org that gets denied gets an autogenerated mail |
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| 18:00.56 | kblin | Sir_Gallantmon: heck, even the orgs that get accepted get autogenerated emails :) |
| 18:01.05 | Sir_Gallantmon | of course |
| 18:01.13 | Sir_Gallantmon | it would be painful to hand write all those mails.... |
| 18:02.10 | Catfish_Man | anyway, Mek is right. Organizations curious about rejection reasons should ask privately |
| 18:02.13 | Catfish_Man | irc is a fine way to do so |
| 18:03.27 | Sir_Gallantmon | I guess the attitude of the ReactOS Foundation President towards GSoC pretty much meant he's not going to ask |
| 18:04.03 | Sir_Gallantmon | I don't agree with his attitude towards the GSoC, but meh |
| 18:04.07 | Catfish_Man | that attitude also sounds like a possible reason for rejection ;) |
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| 18:08.09 | creek23 | !timeline |
| 18:08.09 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs#timeline |
| 18:10.44 | kblin | Ivanovic: ping :) |
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| 18:18.24 | King_InuYasha | ... |
| 18:19.16 | King_InuYasha | How many small projects have been included in GSoC in the past? |
| 18:19.29 | Catfish_Man | check previous years lists |
| 18:19.33 | Catfish_Man | I don't think anyone is counting, but it's a lot |
| 18:19.36 | King_InuYasha | they're gone |
| 18:19.43 | King_InuYasha | the lists prior to 2009 |
| 18:19.47 | Catfish_Man | ah |
| 18:21.36 | King_InuYasha | I tried to find ReactOS information, and I noticed all the info prior to 2009 is gone |
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| 18:23.30 | Ivanovic | kblin: pong |
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| 18:26.16 | JeroenDeDauw | Hey |
| 18:26.24 | JeroenDeDauw | Can a person mentor for 2 organizations?µ |
| 18:26.44 | Ivanovic | johang: sure |
| 18:26.54 | King_InuYasha | Oooh, I found the information for prior to 2009 :) |
| 18:27.02 | Ivanovic | though you should be aware that mentoring can be real work and take lots of time |
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| 18:27.16 | Ivanovic | so make sure not to volunteer for "too many" students |
| 18:27.24 | King_InuYasha | http://code.google.com/soc/2006/reactos/about.html |
| 18:27.45 | tierra | JeroenDeDauw: it may be a good idea to have additional mentors available in case your time runs short |
| 18:28.14 | JeroenDeDauw | tierra: Well, I'm not planning to, but am checking for someone else. |
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| 18:29.27 | tierra | it is possible, and perfectly fine, just as long as the person has the time, but you never know what could come up, so I would advise them to have a backup plan in place in case they can't follow through |
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| 18:30.11 | JeroenDeDauw | tierra: Yeah, that's logical. Is this noted in any official docs? |
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| 18:34.24 | kblin | Ivanovic: |
| 18:35.25 | kblin | Ivanovic: you had a link to your application template somewhere, right? |
| 18:35.33 | Ivanovic | sure |
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| 18:35.54 | Ivanovic | http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SoC_Information_for_Google#Does_your_organization_have_an_application_template_you_would_like_to_see_students_use.3F_If_so.2C_please_provide_it_now. |
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| 18:36.53 | kblin | wow. that's really elaborate |
| 18:36.59 | Ivanovic | yes |
| 18:37.31 | kblin | you're not mentoring this year? |
| 18:37.51 | Ivanovic | i am admin, just like every year |
| 18:38.06 | kblin | I see |
| 18:38.10 | Ivanovic | (have never mentored myself and am busy with my thesis this summer anyway) |
| 18:38.18 | kblin | fair enough |
| 18:38.29 | kblin | that tends to keep you busy |
| 18:39.12 | Ivanovic | yes, i am sure it will provide me with enough stuff to do |
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| 18:41.06 | tierra | JeroenDeDauw: I can't find any docs on it, but I know it's happened in the past |
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| 18:47.24 | JeroenDeDauw | tierra: Ok, thanks for your help :) |
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| 18:48.02 | King_InuYasha | are the logs of this channel publicly available? |
| 18:48.11 | skbohra | !log |
| 18:48.11 | socinfo | Error: access denied (owner). |
| 18:48.14 | skbohra | !logs |
| 18:48.15 | socinfo | "logs" is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc |
| 18:48.28 | skbohra | King_InuYasha: ^ |
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| 18:49.50 | King_InuYasha | I see |
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| 18:58.33 | Guest98577 | Hi I'm from the dojofaces open source community. We would like to participate in the soc. |
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| 18:59.10 | Chainsaw | Guest98577: Did you fill in the application form at socghop.appspot.com? |
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| 18:59.15 | carols | guest98577: have you guys applied? |
| 18:59.22 | carols | oh sorry chainsaw :-) |
| 18:59.31 | Guest98577 | There is no legal entity behind dojofaces, we'Re just a bunch of geeks making a library. Is this ok for soc? |
| 18:59.47 | Chainsaw | Guest98577: I don't believe it'll be a problem. |
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| 18:59.58 | Chainsaw | Guest98577: We've applied as Atheme, which is also just a loosely-knit community. |
| 19:00.06 | Guest98577 | We haven't applied yet, but I'm currently collecting what's needed. |
| 19:00.19 | carols | this should help you guest98577: http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs#org_types |
| 19:00.27 | carols | i would encourage you to read all of the faqs |
| 19:00.32 | carols | they've very helpful |
| 19:00.38 | King_InuYasha | if projects had to be a legal entity, my org would have had a problem too |
| 19:00.39 | Chainsaw | Guest98577: We chose to forego the mentor/infrastructure payments from Google as that would be quite a hassle to handle. |
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| 19:00.42 | micahcowan | Guest98577, it's not uncommon for GSoC. But, you should get onto filling out the application ASAP; the deadline is tomorrow. |
| 19:00.49 | Wyk3d | hi, does anyone have a list of accepted organizations from last year sorted by programming language ? |
| 19:00.52 | lut4rp | Ah dang carols beat me to the FAQ. :) |
| 19:00.58 | Chainsaw | Guest98577: (You can do this, it just goes back to the pool for next year) |
| 19:01.10 | lut4rp | Wyk3d, yes, http://delicious.com/gsoc2009/ |
| 19:01.19 | Wyk3d | lut4rp: thanks |
| 19:01.22 | carols | see you beat me on that one lut4rp :-) |
| 19:01.23 | lut4rp | sure. |
| 19:01.28 | lut4rp | carols, we're even now. |
| 19:01.29 | lut4rp | :) |
| 19:01.36 | carols | :-) |
| 19:01.41 | King_InuYasha | :) |
| 19:01.54 | Chainsaw | Guest98577: So if that's what you're worried about, it does not have to be a hurdle. I had no paperwork to do, everything was online. |
| 19:02.42 | King_InuYasha | For the most part, SoC is an informal agreement |
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| 19:03.20 | King_InuYasha | the submitters of applications have to agree to a ToA so that Google can protect itself, but other than that, no other legal obligations |
| 19:03.59 | micahcowan | King_InuYasha, not sure that's accurate |
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| 19:04.17 | King_InuYasha | I haven't seen any other legal agreements on the SoC site |
| 19:04.21 | micahcowan | It is to some (legal) degree an employer/employee contract, is it not? |
| 19:04.27 | King_InuYasha | no |
| 19:04.31 | micahcowan | Well, for students, at any rate |
| 19:04.39 | King_InuYasha | somewhat, for students |
| 19:04.49 | King_InuYasha | but again, it is mostly informal |
| 19:05.10 | King_InuYasha | the agreement that students agree to is for the stipend, I think |
| 19:05.12 | Chainsaw | It is a commitment that you're making to Google and to your student. |
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| 19:05.36 | Chainsaw | Informal or not should not really make a difference there. |
| 19:05.52 | King_InuYasha | in any case, as long as the org isn't doing something explicitly illegal, there shouldn't be problems |
| 19:06.01 | Guest98577 | Thank you everybody for your help. I will go on with the application now ... |
| 19:06.26 | micahcowan | I imagine that, regardless of how informal it is, if an org seriously botched things up (such as suddenly refusing to communicate for no reason, especially if it caused problems for the students' evaluation/payment), there could be legal repurcussions (gross neglicence type stuff). |
| 19:06.43 | cab938_lappy | What kind of submission chances are there for orgs? |
| 19:06.47 | cab938_lappy | I filled out app out |
| 19:06.57 | cab938_lappy | I'm just curious as to how many organizations google accepts |
| 19:07.24 | kblin | micahcowan: I somehow doubt that. but you'd get an angry lh yell at you, which is bad enough, I guess :) |
| 19:07.35 | carols | cab938_lappy: http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs#number_orgs |
| 19:07.44 | cab938_lappy | oh, I missed that |
| 19:07.49 | cab938_lappy | I saw the students, but not the orgs |
| 19:07.50 | cab938_lappy | thanks |
| 19:07.53 | carols | yw |
| 19:08.07 | cab938_lappy | oh, actually, I did see that |
| 19:08.13 | cab938_lappy | I mean, how many submitted applications? |
| 19:08.22 | cab938_lappy | e.g. were those 150 only 50% of the apps? |
| 19:08.28 | cab938_lappy | how rigourous is the app process |
| 19:08.46 | cab938_lappy | or is it just vetting to make sure we're not completely uninteresting? |
| 19:08.57 | carols | cab938_lappy: based on the tweets lh has been making for the last few days, it sounds like we're at about 180 orgs that have applied right now and the deadline is tomorrow |
| 19:09.18 | cab938_lappy | ah ok |
| 19:09.22 | cab938_lappy | so certainly some pruning |
| 19:09.25 | creek23 | and 30 of which will be rejected :( |
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| 19:09.44 | Chainsaw | cab938_lappy: And they are all read by a human. It is not a formality. |
| 19:09.49 | cab938_lappy | well, competition makes it strong! |
| 19:10.02 | cab938_lappy | Chainsaw, very good, or I would have had to python it |
| 19:11.01 | King_InuYasha | who is lh? |
| 19:11.02 | *** join/#gsoc jaideep (~jaideep@117.199.112.188) |
| 19:11.06 | mlankhorst | !lh |
| 19:11.06 | socinfo | "lh" is Leslie Hawthorn, Program Manager - Open Source; Geek Herder extraordinaire. This is who you turn to if you have very specific questions about GSoC whose answer applies only to you. |
| 19:11.19 | Chainsaw | King_InuYasha: lh is in charge. |
| 19:11.24 | mlankhorst | THE lh :O |
| 19:11.28 | Catfish_Man | maaaaan. Last year's definition of lh was so much more fun |
| 19:11.35 | mlankhorst | what was it? |
| 19:11.38 | Chainsaw | King_InuYasha: So you can read lh as "the boss", basically :) |
| 19:11.45 | mlankhorst | !learn lh as mutti |
| 19:11.45 | socinfo | The operation succeeded. |
| 19:11.49 | Catfish_Man | I don't remember. There we like twelve of them |
| 19:11.52 | Catfish_Man | and it was very silly |
| 19:11.54 | Catfish_Man | *were |
| 19:11.55 | mlankhorst | yeah ;P |
| 19:12.01 | mlankhorst | i suddenly remembered |
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| 19:12.09 | King_InuYasha | ahh... naruhodou... |
| 19:12.58 | mlankhorst | why did they remove them, it was awesome |
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| 19:13.54 | cab938_lappy | So this is our first year applying |
| 19:14.00 | cab938_lappy | I've got a questions for the veterns out there |
| 19:14.12 | cab938_lappy | Do you go about activly recruiting students for your projects? |
| 19:14.17 | cab938_lappy | Or just let the ideas page do the work? |
| 19:14.36 | King_InuYasha | I'd like to know that too |
| 19:14.53 | cab938_lappy | For instance, I work full time at a university in a CS dept. |
| 19:15.13 | cab938_lappy | I could certainly pimp the program around, and hope they pick the OSS project I'm working/mentoring/etcing on |
| 19:15.26 | cab938_lappy | Or should I just sit back and let our ideas page do the work? |
| 19:15.30 | cab938_lappy | Perhaps free candy? |
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| 19:15.55 | carols | cab938_lappy: why not do both? make a great ideas page that will encourage people to come up with great project ideas and recruit people you want to apply |
| 19:16.00 | skbohra | its unsual to fill out a form to download , from a os project |
| 19:16.13 | cab938_lappy | I plan to pimp up our ideas page |
| 19:16.17 | cab938_lappy | because I don't just want local students |
| 19:16.37 | kblin | cab938_lappy: I personally try to advertise GSoC in general and then mention that _I_ happen to work for some really cool projects :) |
| 19:16.44 | cab938_lappy | I just wondered if it would seem unfortunate to Goo if students from my uni end up working on my project |
| 19:16.57 | mlankhorst | sure |
| 19:17.00 | dhaun | does the same as kblin :) |
| 19:17.26 | cab938_lappy | We actually just had recruiters from google waterloo but I don't remember them mentioning the SoC for some reason |
| 19:17.54 | kblin | probably they were from the other google |
| 19:18.22 | cab938_lappy | The other google? |
| 19:18.26 | cab938_lappy | the canadian knock off? |
| 19:18.27 | cab938_lappy | :) |
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| 19:18.47 | kblin | the one that still does no evil, but certainly is naughty |
| 19:19.02 | cab938_lappy | heh |
| 19:19.03 | cab938_lappy | I like it |
| 19:19.13 | cab938_lappy | on earth day when the lights go out |
| 19:19.15 | cab938_lappy | watch out |
| 19:19.28 | cab938_lappy | wonders who's hand that is |
| 19:19.44 | cab938_lappy | Well, I'm hopeful we're accepted, it could be a lot of fun! |
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| 19:20.41 | cab938_lappy | Is there a way to share my application with others at this stage? |
| 19:20.57 | kblin | sure, your backup mentor has full access |
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| 19:23.12 | cab938_lappy | kblin, anyone but him? |
| 19:23.22 | cab938_lappy | I wanted to share it with someone who has done another gsoc project |
| 19:23.36 | cab938_lappy | but it didn't look like I could until we were accepted |
| 19:25.52 | dhaun | I don't think the application will ever be public - if you want to make it public, post it somewhere else |
| 19:26.27 | creek23 | cab938_lappy: use your project's wiki. |
| 19:27.02 | cab938_lappy | creek23, yea, I was planning too, just copy and pasting from web forms generally sucks |
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| 19:49.16 | dennda | Hi. Can a single project apply and, if it's not taken, still take part in gsoc through an umbrella project? |
| 19:49.29 | Dark_Shikari | yes |
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| 19:50.02 | thiago | is writing his org application now |
| 19:50.33 | dennda | Dark_Shikari: And I can trust you on that? Does it say that anywhere? :) |
| 19:50.42 | Dark_Shikari | I don't see why not. |
| 19:50.45 | Dark_Shikari | but don't trust me. |
| 19:50.54 | mlankhorst | aww |
| 19:51.03 | mlankhorst | thiago: i beat you to it ;p |
| 19:51.10 | dennda | Not saying I don't. Just want to be sure |
| 19:52.03 | dennda | Where is LH? |
| 19:52.52 | thiago | ponders the answer to the "why" question |
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| 19:53.11 | kblin | dennda: it actually depends on the umbrella org willing to take you up |
| 19:53.56 | dennda | kblin: no other problem involved? (brb) |
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| 19:55.09 | carols | dennda: she's at sigcse this week |
| 19:55.26 | kblin | I can't speak for google, of course, but like Dark_Shikari said, I can't see any reason why it wouldn't be allowed |
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| 19:56.51 | carols | dennda: is this the sort of thing you mean? http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs#no_org |
| 19:57.15 | micahcowan | dennda, there is nothing whatsoever to prevent that, provided the umbrella project is happy to accept you. |
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| 19:57.45 | _ke | carols, leslie is away? |
| 19:57.54 | micahcowan | For instance, GNU has an umbrella project, but many projects (GCC, Hurd) prefer to apply separately. However, if they aren't accepted, and GNU is, they can easily come in under that organization |
| 19:57.54 | summatusmentis | she's at a conference, iirc? |
| 19:57.55 | summatusmentis | yeah |
| 19:57.59 | summatusmentis | what carols said |
| 19:58.00 | micahcowan | In particular, Google will not care. |
| 19:58.16 | carols | _ke: yes, check out her twitter stream, its been full of stuff about the conference. |
| 19:58.22 | micahcowan | Unless for some reason they actively wish to block a known-misbehaving org, probably |
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| 19:58.42 | thiago | a couple of KDE sub-projects apply every year and don't get it |
| 19:58.43 | dennda | carols: No. |
| 19:58.48 | thiago | KOffice, Amarok, etc. |
| 19:59.01 | micahcowan | thiago, and, I imagine, find success within the KDE umbrella? |
| 19:59.01 | dennda | My question has been answered. Thank you! |
| 19:59.24 | micahcowan | dennda, OTOH, slots are always limited, and just because you get in under an umbrella org, doesn't guarantee that the org will get sufficient slots to allocate to you |
| 19:59.29 | anth_x | micahcowan: last year, plan 9 applied as an umbrella project and glendix applied individually. glendix was not accepted; we took one of their projects/students. |
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| 19:59.38 | micahcowan | GNU usually has a few projects who must go without |
| 19:59.55 | dennda | micahcowan: I know, thanks |
| 20:00.07 | _ke | carols, maybe you could help me too: im just putting together the application for GNOME. however i cant find any number of successful students at GNOME in 2005 and 2006. i have the number of accpepted students thought. do you have access to that data somehow? |
| 20:00.50 | carols | _ke: are you with GNOME? you can email me at carols@google.com from a GNOME email and I can provide that to you |
| 20:01.01 | _ke | carols, sure thing |
| 20:01.05 | carols | _ke: great |
| 20:01.15 | schumaml | _ke: the past years are link from the gsoc page |
| 20:01.28 | schumaml | and afaik all the projects listed there are the successful ones |
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| 20:02.47 | _ke | carols, sent |
| 20:03.02 | carols | _ke: cool, thanks. |
| 20:03.12 | _ke | carols, it would be great if you could check my numbers too, i just pulled them out of our wiki |
| 20:04.22 | blast007 | sfb: re: your BZFlag question - no, we are not. |
| 20:04.50 | smtms | will Google check these numbers (successful and participated students) in the organizations appilcations? |
| 20:05.21 | carols | smtms: yes. we review every application by hand. |
| 20:06.13 | smtms | if you know the correct numbers why ask for them? :-) |
| 20:06.36 | *** join/#gsoc jbourne (~rahulgolw@l005044.zseriespenguins.ihost.com) |
| 20:06.37 | schumaml | to see if the orgs keep track of this as well? |
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| 20:07.04 | schumaml | might be a small handicap for orgs who've got a different admin |
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| 20:08.02 | anth_x | we had a different admin in 2007. finding it's a bit of a hassle. thankfully, there's this company that makes searching for things pretty easy... ;-) |
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| 20:11.43 | _ke | carols, will you reply by mail? |
| 20:11.49 | carols | _ke: yep, just did |
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| 20:11.58 | _ke | carols, awesome! thanks a lot |
| 20:12.02 | carols | _ke: yw |
| 20:13.35 | _ke | carols, what should we put for the years before 2007? we just have the number of students we accepted |
| 20:13.57 | carols | _ke: that's fine by me. i'll see if lh has those numbers when she gets back |
| 20:14.17 | _ke | carols, ok! |
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| 20:15.40 | _ke | carols, do you know when that will be? as im on the other side of the world ;) |
| 20:15.45 | kblin | _ke: I was guessing for the years I didn't admin as well :) |
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| 20:16.26 | carols | _ke: i have a very long meeting with her on sunday, so i will talk to her about it then :-) i think she arrives earlier that day |
| 20:16.55 | _ke | carols, thats too late for the deadline then ;) |
| 20:17.38 | carols | _ke: indeed. i will be sure she knows you did you best with the numbers |
| 20:17.55 | _ke | carols, alright, thanks! |
| 20:18.42 | carols | _ke: of course :-) |
| 20:18.52 | kblin | _ke: hang on, you need the numbers of _successful_ students? |
| 20:18.56 | dhaun | _ke: the field is big enough - can't hurt to leave a note there |
| 20:19.02 | _ke | kblin, yep |
| 20:19.46 | kblin | _ke: http://code.google.com/soc/2005/results.html |
| 20:19.52 | kblin | search for your org name |
| 20:20.14 | kblin | and http://code.google.com/soc/2006/gnome/about.html |
| 20:20.31 | *** part/#gsoc ostin (~Ostin@mcc-dyn-21-71.kosnet.ru) |
| 20:20.36 | _ke | kblin, "Please note that this page contains a sampling and not a complete listing of the projects done as part of the Google Summer of Code 2005." |
| 20:20.50 | _ke | kblin, so im not sure if those are _all_ the successful students |
| 20:22.24 | kblin | I didn't count, but in 2005 there weren't that many students |
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| 20:24.03 | kblin | _ke: how many students did Gnome accept in 2005? |
| 20:24.19 | _ke | kblin, 12 |
| 20:24.27 | _ke | kblin, on the list there are only 7 |
| 20:25.56 | *** join/#gsoc jaideep (~jaideep@117.199.112.188) |
| 20:26.45 | kblin | ok, there's 259 people on that list |
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| 20:27.14 | kblin | that'd be a 65% success rate |
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| 20:27.24 | kblin | sounds a bit low :) |
| 20:27.25 | _ke | kblin, im quite sure we had more |
| 20:27.40 | kblin | yeah, but now you know you had at least 7 ;) |
| 20:28.12 | _ke | kblin, hehe |
| 20:28.32 | kblin | I actually managed to miss the note about the sampling.. the orgs I know about were complete :) |
| 20:28.52 | kblin | the numbers for 2006 should be more reliable, I guess |
| 20:29.09 | *** join/#gsoc memcat (~gabesilk@d207-6-245-187.bchsia.telus.net) |
| 20:29.24 | _ke | kblin, yep |
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| 20:32.21 | kblin | but I can't imagine LH sitting in front of the stack of mentoring org applications saying "aha! GNOME got the number of successful students for 2005 wrong, no GSoC 2010 for them!" |
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| 20:32.58 | juanger | Hi guys, I have a presentation translation in spanish. Where should I sent it? |
| 20:33.04 | _ke | kblin, i can imagine THAT ;) |
| 20:33.05 | kblin | hm, actually I can, but that's because I have a lively imagination :) |
| 20:33.25 | thiago | clicks Submit |
| 20:33.39 | mlankhorst | haha |
| 20:33.58 | mlankhorst | kblin: Well it's easy to imagine lh reading email all day, because a few days a year that's all she really does :P |
| 20:33.59 | thiago | "There are errors in your form" |
| 20:34.19 | *** join/#gsoc kpreid (~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com) |
| 20:34.51 | thiago | the "link id" for the backup admin, is that a google account address? |
| 20:34.59 | kblin | nope |
| 20:35.18 | kblin | that's the link id the mentor specified in his melange account settings |
| 20:35.30 | thiago | ah |
| 20:35.32 | kblin | see http://socghop.appspot.com/user/edit_profile |
| 20:35.38 | thiago | crap, I don't know what she set |
| 20:35.43 | thiago | asks another person to be backup admin |
| 20:36.00 | *** join/#gsoc karim (~karim@neyret.fr) |
| 20:36.03 | karim | hi |
| 20:36.14 | kblin | I stumbled over that during the test run |
| 20:36.30 | kblin | until I managed to guess Lennie's link id |
| 20:36.59 | kblin | of course for your real application, you wouldn't want any odd random person as backup mentor :) |
| 20:37.19 | thiago | yeah |
| 20:37.37 | kblin | then again, Lennie is not very random.. not sure about odd, though ;) |
| 20:37.39 | thiago | will wait for the backup admin to register with Melange |
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| 20:39.15 | mlankhorst | thiago: isn't Nightrose backup admin? |
| 20:40.56 | Nightrose | mlankhorst: for KDE |
| 20:41.00 | Nightrose | thiago is doing Qt |
| 20:41.01 | Nightrose | :) |
| 20:41.08 | Nightrose | he switched :D |
| 20:41.09 | mlankhorst | ah ;p |
| 20:41.36 | Nightrose | thiago: alexandra going to be your backup? |
| 20:41.39 | thiago | yeah |
| 20:41.42 | Nightrose | cool |
| 20:41.43 | thiago | but I don't know her ID |
| 20:41.43 | mlankhorst | ponders whether to write a kde4tv app or not |
| 20:41.46 | Nightrose | ah |
| 20:41.51 | Nightrose | tried troubalex? |
| 20:42.02 | thiago | anyway, I didn't switch. I'm just opening up new opportunities :-) |
| 20:42.06 | thiago | KDE is doing fine without me |
| 20:42.08 | Nightrose | haha |
| 20:42.10 | Nightrose | sure |
| 20:42.11 | thiago | yeah, tried that, no work |
| 20:42.14 | Nightrose | ok |
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| 20:43.05 | thiago | submitted |
| 20:43.10 | thiago | aep agreed to be backup admin |
| 20:43.19 | *** join/#gsoc DrJoel (~joel@rtems/maintainer/joel) |
| 20:43.23 | thiago | which is good, because now one admin isn't a Nokia employee :-) |
| 20:43.35 | Nightrose | heh |
| 20:43.37 | Nightrose | good |
| 20:44.08 | mlankhorst | mm nokia |
| 20:44.14 | mlankhorst | gief maemo :P |
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| 20:44.15 | *** mode/#gsoc [+o mlankhorst] by ChanServ |
| 20:44.31 | thiago | maemo is dead, long live meego |
| 20:44.33 | *** join/#gsoc goose (goose@unaffiliated/hansthedestroyer) |
| 20:44.45 | thiago | is actually close to Portland in an Intel conference |
| 20:44.48 | thiago | and it's lunch time |
| 20:44.50 | thiago | BBL |
| 20:45.09 | *** part/#gsoc karim (~karim@neyret.fr) |
| 20:45.22 | mlankhorst | ain't there yet! |
| 20:46.16 | sreich | thiago: mmmmh, I wonder what proposals there will be for Qt, then.. |
| 20:47.23 | *** join/#gsoc Unhammer (~user@c28374BC1.dhcp.bluecom.no) |
| 20:47.23 | kblin | "pick me and I'll make Qt more awesomer!!!1111one"? |
| 20:49.11 | mlankhorst | PICK ME, I KNOW HOW TO SPELL QT! |
| 20:49.30 | sreich | ah yes, quicktime |
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| 20:50.05 | kblin | mlankhorst: decent use of caps, but not enough typos |
| 20:50.11 | mlankhorst | :( |
| 20:50.38 | mlankhorst | qt is for mac videos right? I'll implement RGB42 support >:) |
| 20:50.44 | sreich | forgot leetspeak too |
| 20:50.52 | sreich | mlankhorst: no, QT is for mac videos |
| 20:50.56 | mlankhorst | aww |
| 20:51.33 | mlankhorst | darn, pick me and get 500$ for mentoring, and I'm willing to share half of the cash I'll get |
| 20:51.39 | mlankhorst | whistles |
| 20:51.50 | kblin | Qt is for making nokia phones more pretty :) |
| 20:52.05 | Landon | kblin: turning them into cuties? |
| 20:52.06 | Landon | >.> |
| 20:52.56 | sreich | kblin: don't forget linux :) |
| 20:53.02 | Nightrose | didn't you know Qt devs are the cutest yet? |
| 20:53.04 | Nightrose | ;-) |
| 20:53.23 | Landon | but I'm not a Qt dev! |
| 20:53.23 | Nightrose | is pretty certain about this from the sample she has |
| 20:53.30 | Nightrose | Landon: i'm sorry for you |
| 20:53.31 | Nightrose | :D |
| 20:53.40 | mlankhorst | haha |
| 20:53.51 | thebolt | Evening |
| 20:53.58 | Nightrose | 'lo thebolt |
| 20:54.16 | kblin | sreich: or windows or osx |
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| 20:55.36 | sreich | kblin: not sure if that's possible ;-) |
| 20:56.01 | sreich | Nightrose: hopefully it's not mutually exclusive =) |
| 20:56.31 | Nightrose | sreich: well i still have to figure that out |
| 20:56.40 | mlankhorst | cute, I can remove the desktop in kde |
| 20:56.44 | Nightrose | needs more testing |
| 20:56.47 | mlankhorst | but it immediately creates a new one if i do :( |
| 20:56.51 | kblin | Nightrose: I'll trust you on that then, I don't think I know many Qt devs |
| 20:57.07 | Nightrose | kblin: i'm totally trustworthy |
| 20:57.08 | Nightrose | trust me |
| 20:57.10 | Nightrose | ;-) |
| 20:57.20 | sreich | naw, she's biased. don't listen to her :) |
| 20:57.32 | sreich | mlankhorst: eh? why would you want to do that? |
| 20:57.39 | sreich | plasma-desktop, you are referring to? |
| 20:57.47 | Nightrose | sreich: whuuuuuuuut? |
| 20:57.49 | Nightrose | biased? |
| 20:57.57 | Nightrose | maaaaaaaaaaybe a tiny little bit |
| 20:58.17 | mlankhorst | sreich: wondering what would happen if i clicked that kidney in the upper right, and hit the delete button it had ;) |
| 20:58.23 | sreich | that's what biased persons always say :) |
| 20:58.29 | sreich | mlankhorst: ah |
| 20:58.29 | Nightrose | mlankhorst: it's a cashew!!! |
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| 20:58.31 | sreich | haha, kidney |
| 20:58.38 | sreich | that's a new term for it that I haven't heard :) |
| 20:58.50 | Nightrose | me neither |
| 20:59.06 | sreich | feels guilty that he is eating cashews at the moment.. |
| 20:59.17 | anth_x | better than eating kidneys. |
| 20:59.19 | *** join/#gsoc Abhinav1 (~Abhinav1@unaffiliated/abhinav1) |
| 20:59.22 | Nightrose | true that |
| 20:59.33 | schumaml | why? |
| 20:59.34 | mlankhorst | kidney bean obviously ;p |
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| 21:00.01 | kblin | upper right? |
| 21:00.10 | sreich | what's wrong with kidneys? |
| 21:00.14 | kblin | my kde doesn't have anything up there |
| 21:00.24 | sreich | kblin: it can be anywhere, really |
| 21:00.33 | mlankhorst | just unlock your widgets and you will see |
| 21:00.33 | Nightrose | it's everywhere! |
| 21:00.36 | sreich | you can move it to the left, right, bottom, top, etc etc etc |
| 21:00.53 | kblin | I don't have any kidneys on my screen, apart from in the chat log |
| 21:01.07 | chrisinajar | compsciwizkid: (looking at your recent change in nickname) do you have a drunk and a sober irc nick? |
| 21:01.31 | compsciwizkid | chrisinajar: haha no, my last name is miller :P |
| 21:01.37 | sreich | aw |
| 21:01.39 | chrisinajar | compsciwizkid: awe... |
| 21:02.12 | compsciwizkid | my drunk nickname is rumncoketime :P |
| 21:02.24 | kblin | sreich: might be because I'm running kde 3.5.10 |
| 21:02.32 | mlankhorst | ;P |
| 21:02.39 | sreich | gathers pitchforks and kde devs |
| 21:02.49 | Jeff_S | scary image/win 20 |
| 21:02.55 | Jeff_S | ignore me :) |
| 21:03.03 | compsciwizkid | <- my gsoc linkID, wanted to keep it consistent.. |
| 21:03.26 | chrisinajar | ah |
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| 21:03.36 | Landon | chrisinajar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avYUL1A-WUM drinking tiiiiime@ |
| 21:03.38 | timClicks | hi - i'm coordinating this year's GSoC for Sugar Labs. Last year's admin seems to have gone AWOL. Should I create a new organisation or is it possible to have a google admin alter the organisation's details? |
| 21:03.41 | compsciwizkid | just heard about gsoc, super excited! |
| 21:03.50 | mlankhorst | has added all nick changes, quits and mode changes to ignore |
| 21:04.05 | mlankhorst | timClicks: Just apply for your org this year, ought to be possible |
| 21:04.24 | kblin | sreich: oh, you think they can fix all those annoying bugs my kubuntu has with those pitchforks? :D |
| 21:04.37 | Nightrose | kblin: for sure |
| 21:04.40 | sreich | kblin: no, those are kubuntu bugs |
| 21:04.42 | sreich | runs |
| 21:04.47 | Nightrose | bugs don't like pitchforks |
| 21:04.54 | timClicks | mlankhorst: so, create a duplicate org record? |
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| 21:04.56 | kblin | sreich: hehe, right :) |
| 21:05.12 | kblin | timClicks: you'll be creating a new record anyway |
| 21:05.22 | mlankhorst | timClicks: do you need to? I could apply for wine this year while kblin was head last year anyhow |
| 21:05.23 | timClicks | kblin: okay, will do |
| 21:05.43 | timClicks | mlankhorst: well, I can't access the current record.. |
| 21:06.20 | kblin | timClicks: that shouldn't matter |
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| 21:06.42 | kblin | from looking at the links, every year's gsoc has it's own namespace |
| 21:09.04 | chrisinajar | Landon: that's wicked awesome. |
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| 21:26.47 | bitsweat | hey gsoccers - is there a way to see my 2009 org app in the updated melange? |
| 21:27.08 | bitsweat | there's portions that I'd like to retain |
| 21:29.40 | kblin | bitsweat: a bit late for that, I'm afraid |
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| 21:30.02 | bitsweat | late, yes :) |
| 21:30.18 | bitsweat | I'd like to ensure I keep to the standard we used last year |
| 21:30.27 | bitsweat | rather than coming up with new stuff |
| 21:30.36 | kblin | bitsweat: late as in I don't think there's a way to see the old app anymore |
| 21:31.16 | bitsweat | Yeah, I couldn't find a way in melange. I thought maybe there's a direct URL. |
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| 21:31.42 | kblin | not that I'm aware of |
| 21:31.45 | bitsweat | I put so much work into it last year, would be a shame to repeat :( |
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| 21:39.05 | smtms | maybe the melange developers would know a way? |
| 21:39.54 | bitsweat | smtms: I hope so - I asked :) |
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| 22:06.39 | j-b | !timeline |
| 22:06.39 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs#timeline |
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| 22:08.21 | lekernel | hi |
| 22:08.46 | lekernel | What is your plan for dealing with disappearing students/mentors? => you mean student/mentors whose contact is lost during GSoC? |
| 22:09.21 | kblin | yeah |
| 22:10.06 | lekernel | what can be done with disappearing students? except informing google and forgetting about their contribution? |
| 22:10.28 | Nightrose | well you can collect contact data beforehand |
| 22:10.38 | Nightrose | and regularly check on everyone to make sure they're still doing fine |
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| 22:10.42 | ihalip_ | and you can have backup mentors |
| 22:11.46 | lekernel | oh, ok, I see |
| 22:12.16 | lekernel | I was rather seeing it as "if you do lose a student, what do you do" |
| 22:13.34 | kblin | well, that as well, but it's also "how do you notice a student is having problems prior to the mid-term or end-of-term surveys" |
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| 22:14.14 | kblin | like "we've got the phone# of the student's mom and will call her" ;) |
| 22:15.11 | kblin | anyway, bedtime for me |
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| 22:20.14 | lekernel | I'm going to apply for Milkymist |
| 22:21.16 | lekernel | it's an open source (at the hardware level) system-on-chip (like LEON3/GRLIB, OpenRISC, OpenCores) designed for video jockey/artistic/graphics applications |
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| 22:21.23 | robbyoconnor | my mentor last summer contacted me when he didnt hear from me |
| 22:21.31 | robbyoconnor | (I had been working -- just not bugging him) |
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| 22:21.56 | lekernel | I don't know if HW projects are welcome in GSoC, but there's a *lot* of software development to do as well |
| 22:22.04 | ThomasWaldmann | moin |
| 22:22.12 | lekernel | on the board support package, on the libraries, applications, ... |
| 22:27.36 | *** join/#gsoc jps (~63bf48bc@gateway/web/freenode/x-oofldgcxftddjbyt) |
| 22:28.37 | jps | Hi! I've volunteered to mentor three seperate projects, mostly by communicating on their mailing lists and editing their wikis. Is there anything more I need to do? How can I check to make sure they have applied? |
| 22:29.11 | robbyoconnor | communicate with them jps |
| 22:29.14 | Sir_Gallantmon | lekernel: technically, they aren't *disallowed* |
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| 22:30.00 | lekernel | it's more or less software anyway (Verilog HDL) |
| 22:30.52 | jps | Well, I have communicated with them. I see on the timeline that the "Mentoring organization application deadline" is tomorrow. Is there a central list of applications received by google that I can check to see that the admins (some of which speak poor English) have successfully applied? |
| 22:31.08 | micahcowan | jps, mentors are _usually_ people who are already pretty heavily involved with the project in question as a contributor. Is that you? :) |
| 22:31.14 | jps | yes |
| 22:31.24 | micahcowan | K. Just checking :) |
| 22:31.28 | jps | but this is my first gsoc experience |
| 22:31.49 | jps | so I have no idea whether the project admins have done their part and I'd like to check |
| 22:32.10 | micahcowan | However, if all three orgs make it in, I'd highly recommend you consider mentoring no more than two as an absolute max (my opinion), unless you don't have a day job, etc |
| 22:32.23 | micahcowan | I don't believe you can check on that arbitrarily. |
| 22:32.47 | Ivanovic | there is no way for you beside asking your project admins (as in "those that would admin your project in SoC", they do *not* have to be identical to specific positions in your project!) |
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| 22:37.44 | jps | I do not at present have a day job, and two of the three mentorships are extremely easy -- one is underway by a programmer more skilled than I, and another is a reimplementation of some existing code which needs to be cleanroomed before it can be open sourced |
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| 23:01.34 | Conan_Kudo | O.o |
| 23:01.51 | Conan_Kudo | somehow, there are two copies of the same Organization application.... |
| 23:01.55 | Conan_Kudo | submitted to GSoC |
| 23:02.21 | ojwb | double your chances! |
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| 23:11.55 | nshm | carols: hello |
| 23:12.00 | carols | nshm: hello |
| 23:12.01 | nshm | sorry to ping you |
| 23:12.10 | carols | that's fine, how can i help, nshm? |
| 23:12.10 | nshm | are you sure cmusphinx app is not submitted? |
| 23:12.17 | nshm | I see it in my account |
| 23:12.28 | carols | no, not sure, that's probably correct |
| 23:12.44 | nshm | k, great then |
| 23:12.55 | nshm | sorry for noise |
| 23:13.12 | carols | np |
| 23:13.37 | Lezard | a lot of organizations applying? |
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| 23:32.24 | ihalip_ | Lezard: there were 77 irrc in the first day alone |
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| 23:32.29 | ihalip_ | according to a facebook post |
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| 23:32.41 | ihalip_ | -irrc +iirc :) |
| 23:32.54 | ojwb | there's always a pulse at the start and end |
| 23:36.03 | robbyoconnor | is anybody using that form i created? |
| 23:36.23 | robbyoconnor | I'm gonna officially disable the form tomorrow. |
| 23:36.59 | robbyoconnor | there's only 38 orgs on there |
| 23:37.19 | anth_x | you're disabling entry or the spreadsheet all together? |
| 23:37.33 | robbyoconnor | I disabled that to be anyways |
| 23:37.39 | schumaml | the "oh, the column titles are slightly different from the form field titles" one? ;) |
| 23:37.53 | robbyoconnor | no they're not |
| 23:38.03 | anth_x | it was interesting to see. thanks for making it. |
| 23:38.22 | ihalip_ | robbyoconnor: it'll get pointless tomorrow, right? |
| 23:38.27 | robbyoconnor | yes. |
| 23:38.30 | robbyoconnor | it's pointless now |
| 23:38.30 | ihalip_ | exactly |
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| 23:38.47 | ihalip_ | might as well keep it for another day or two |
| 23:39.41 | ihalip_ | you haven't had any new additions for 3 or 4 days, right? |
| 23:41.05 | schumaml | robbyoconnor: I seem to recall "IRC nick" on the form, and the sheet read "nick or channel" |
| 23:41.20 | robbyoconnor | schumaml: read it again |
| 23:41.22 | robbyoconnor | i changed it |
| 23:41.26 | robbyoconnor | but you cant actually |
| 23:41.42 | anth_x | so, file names at T1 don't match column names at T2. :-) |
| 23:41.59 | anth_x | s/file/field/ |
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| 23:49.53 | robbyoconnor | anth_x: yes |
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| 23:51.26 | MatthewWilkes | evenin' |
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| 23:58.10 | Kosma | !timeline |
| 23:58.10 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs#timeline |
