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| 10:42.44 | *** topic/#gsoc is Google Summer of Code 2010 is On!: http://bit.ly/9hFpcb - Help Wanted (in a few days): http://bit.ly/dzry1z - Be Merry, Excited and All That Goodness!! |
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| 15:01.47 | kblin | hm, crud |
| 15:02.02 | kblin | so much for the plan of fun gps navigation with my cell phone |
| 15:02.38 | kblin | the EULA for the navigation software is so shady, it'd shield an elephant |
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| 15:04.56 | mlankhorst | :) |
| 15:05.07 | mlankhorst | but not from a scud missilee |
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| 17:32.48 | fat0ss | so gsoc fellas ready for bang once again |
| 17:33.09 | kblin | sort of |
| 17:35.33 | ajuonline | what kinda bang? |
| 17:40.35 | ajuonline | Numb3rs' description of IRC http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2rGTXHvPCQ |
| 17:40.45 | ajuonline | <discuss> |
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| 18:04.36 | fat0ss | please give any suggestions :D regarding GSOC preparation |
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| 18:11.18 | _Samo | clear |
| 18:12.16 | ajuonline | _Samo: you mean /clear ? |
| 18:12.31 | _Samo | yep sorry |
| 18:16.57 | codestasher | ajuonline so jao |
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| 19:53.27 | DanParker | lol |
| 19:54.18 | Jeff_S | I wonder what was so funny |
| 19:56.57 | blast007 | musta been an inside joke ;) |
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| 20:22.17 | Ivanovic | kblin: do you plan on heading over to fosdem? |
| 20:22.57 | kblin | no time, I'm afraid |
| 20:23.14 | Ivanovic | :( |
| 20:24.50 | kblin | next month I either need to start my phd work or start looking for a job until I can start my phd thesis |
| 20:25.19 | Ivanovic | yeah, sounds reasonable |
| 20:25.31 | Ivanovic | i am currently looking for something to write my final thesis about |
| 20:26.11 | kblin | you're going for a straight comp-sci degree, right? |
| 20:26.15 | Ivanovic | jup |
| 20:26.25 | Ivanovic | embedded system |
| 20:26.34 | thebolt | just started his thesis work some 2 weeks ago |
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| 20:26.50 | thebolt | got some pretty good momentum though, did a lot of the pre-research before officially started |
| 20:26.52 | kblin | Ivanovic: did your pandora arrive yet? |
| 20:27.02 | Ivanovic | nah, they still have issues with the case |
| 20:27.09 | thebolt | also embedded systems btw, but from a more hardware-close perspective :) |
| 20:27.10 | Ivanovic | that is: the company in china is still not done with the mould |
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| 20:27.39 | thebolt | Ivanovic: what sub-area are you looking to do your thesis within? |
| 20:27.46 | Ivanovic | thebolt: i am more on the operation system side of ES |
| 20:28.11 | Ivanovic | as in software product lines and that stuff |
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| 20:28.42 | thebolt | Ivanovic: ok, well my degree is EE, but my "specialization" is overall system design /SoC design.. and i'll have both hard&software.. |
| 20:29.05 | thebolt | probably start designing on an OMAP-based schematic tomorrow ;) |
| 20:29.18 | Ivanovic | though if this part of the department has no more room for a thesis atm it might as well be something like WCET based stuff |
| 20:29.46 | Ivanovic | (another part of the chair is working on a worst case execution time aware compiler, some interesting and hardcore stuff, too) |
| 20:29.58 | thebolt | hehe ok :) |
| 20:30.16 | Ivanovic | hmm, omap is quite huge and high performance class |
| 20:30.42 | thebolt | yea |
| 20:30.44 | Ivanovic | i am more talking about the area of the more tiny ES stuff like eg some microcontroller, mpsoc and so on |
| 20:31.16 | thebolt | well, in this case it will be one omap-l138 (not omap35.. no need for graphics etc and the POP is pretty hard for manufacturing) and one ARM7-based microcontroller |
| 20:31.48 | thebolt | (as arm9 + linux isn't good enough for timing-critical GPIO stuff) |
| 20:32.41 | Dark_Shikari | isn't omap arm13 aka cortex? |
| 20:32.45 | kblin | thebolt: even if you go for an RT kernel? |
| 20:32.53 | Ivanovic | Dark_Shikari: depends on the version you use |
| 20:32.54 | thebolt | technically my thesis work is actually to try to discuss what kind of ES setup would be most suited, give advantages&disadvantages (in our specific application), then propose a more full design of one of them and implement that to show that my discussion was valid |
| 20:32.58 | thebolt | kblin: yes |
| 20:33.28 | thebolt | OMAP35xx is Cortex-A8 |
| 20:33.34 | Ivanovic | Dark_Shikari: OMAP itself has several versions, atm we are at OMAP3 which comes with a cortex a8 |
| 20:33.41 | Ivanovic | OMAP4 will have a cortex a9 |
| 20:33.45 | thebolt | the OMAP I am looking at is ARM926 + DSP |
| 20:34.05 | thebolt | (about half the performance of OMAP3, and half the price.. and easier manufacturing) |
| 20:34.06 | Dark_Shikari | it would be nice if someone sold a chip that was just a cortex and nothing else |
| 20:34.08 | Dark_Shikari | the DSP is huge |
| 20:34.20 | Dark_Shikari | I guess that's ARM's plan with the 2ghz quadcore a9 |
| 20:34.58 | thebolt | Dark_Shikari: ST have Cortex-M3s |
| 20:35.08 | Dark_Shikari | yeah I know, the DSP is so huge it has its own mini-cortex |
| 20:35.19 | Ivanovic | Dark_Shikari: what you want is a plain arm cpu, not a while soc, right? |
| 20:35.20 | thebolt | (without DSP that is) |
| 20:35.26 | Dark_Shikari | Ivanovic: it would be nice |
| 20:35.35 | Dark_Shikari | not for me personally but I can imagine a lot of uses |
| 20:35.36 | Ivanovic | s/while/whole |
| 20:36.01 | Dark_Shikari | I wonder what's going on with the Snapdragon and other arm derivatives |
| 20:36.04 | Dark_Shikari | er, cortex derivatives |
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| 20:41.04 | thebolt | Dark_Shikari: Freescale have Cortex-A8 units without DSP |
| 20:41.15 | Dark_Shikari | curious, how much do they charge? |
| 20:41.21 | thebolt | no idea really |
| 20:41.35 | thebolt | let me see what the smallest one is and how much it is |
| 20:42.18 | thebolt | for one or for 1k units? |
| 20:42.26 | thiago_home | buy in bulk, it's cheaper per unit :-) |
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| 20:42.43 | thebolt | yep, definitely |
| 20:42.50 | thebolt | hm, seems it is only one of their largest that is actually Cortex |
| 20:42.59 | thebolt | and that one is $38/each (in trays of 84 units) |
| 20:43.09 | thiago_home | 84? |
| 20:43.17 | thiago_home | who came up with that? |
| 20:43.22 | Erant | It's a fairly common tray size. |
| 20:43.29 | thebolt | yep |
| 20:43.29 | thiago_home | maybe, but why that number? |
| 20:43.46 | kblin | thiago_home: number of square chips that fit on a round wafer? |
| 20:43.55 | thebolt | nope |
| 20:44.09 | thebolt | but the trays are standard size for handling |
| 20:44.24 | thebolt | 5.35x12.44" |
| 20:44.41 | thebolt | and for the size of the BGA of that processor you can fit 14x6 units.. |
| 20:44.45 | Erant | Made out of that freaky plastic. |
| 20:45.10 | thebolt | hehe |
| 20:45.48 | thiago_home | wonders how much the hardware of his Cortex-A8-powered cellphone actually costs |
| 20:46.06 | thebolt | btw, for comparison, OMAP3530 (biggest TI omap 3 with GPU etc) is $69 for one, $59 at 100 units |
| 20:47.00 | thebolt | (and L138 is $37 for one, down to $22 if you buy 5000 at once ,) |
| 20:47.14 | thiago_home | how about 100k? :-P |
| 20:47.45 | Erant | thiago_home: They did a price-estimate on the iPhone at one point. Wasn't much more than around... $15 for the proc |
| 20:48.35 | thebolt | thiago_home: for those volumes the price are not public, you go to TI directly ;) |
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| 20:49.15 | thiago_home | yup |
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| 20:49.28 | thiago_home | this is a 3430 |
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| 20:50.49 | thiago_home | pretty nice to develop for, especially after I got remote gdb working |
| 20:50.58 | thiago_home | does anyone know a nice ARM assembly reference manual? |
| 20:55.12 | _Samo | hi guys |
| 20:56.01 | Erant | thiago_home: Euh, the ones ARM supplies? |
| 20:56.13 | Erant | http://www.arm.com |
| 20:57.50 | thiago_home | wondering if anyone knew of one that is nicer/easier/etc. |
| 20:58.11 | robbyoconnor | this place is hopping |
| 20:58.47 | robbyoconnor | *WHY* can't it be this way in between summer of code announcements? |
| 20:59.06 | robbyoconnor | thiago_home: straight from ARM :) |
| 20:59.21 | Landon | way to be late :p |
| 21:00.02 | thiago_home | has the Itanium Reference Manuals already |
| 21:00.11 | thiago_home | easy to understand the assembly reference |
| 21:00.18 | thiago_home | unlike the x86 / x86-64 ones |
| 21:00.50 | robbyoconnor | *ALL* winter this wasn't like this |
| 21:00.58 | robbyoconnor | it DIES here I swear i saw tumbleweeds roll by |
| 21:01.08 | thebolt | thiago_home: well, that is because ia64 is nicer than ia32 on ISA-level :P |
| 21:01.15 | thebolt | much nicer :) |
| 21:01.26 | thiago_home | indeed but that's not what I meant |
| 21:01.33 | thiago_home | try to read the manual where it explains what an instruction does |
| 21:01.42 | thiago_home | the pseudocode for the IA-64 manual is readable |
| 21:02.22 | thebolt | ok, don't have the ia64 manual, just ia32 |
| 21:02.51 | robbyoconnor | buy it |
| 21:02.56 | thiago_home | http://www.intel.com/design/itanium/manuals/iiasdmanual.htm |
| 21:02.57 | robbyoconnor | er or request it |
| 21:03.00 | thiago_home | or download it |
| 21:03.02 | thiago_home | :-) |
| 21:03.15 | robbyoconnor | you can also order hard-copies :) |
| 21:03.18 | robbyoconnor | for *FREE* |
| 21:03.26 | thiago_home | can't really search them with Ctrl+F |
| 21:03.38 | robbyoconnor | sure you can |
| 21:03.46 | robbyoconnor | it's called the index |
| 21:03.58 | robbyoconnor | that's ctrl+F for hardcopy books |
| 21:03.59 | thebolt | don't do any ia64 development, so i see no reason to get them :P |
| 21:04.07 | kblin | robbyoconnor: in most books I have, the index sucks |
| 21:05.19 | thiago_home | no need for IA-64 development |
| 21:05.26 | thiago_home | just learn one good assembly :-) |
| 21:06.06 | kblin | I already know one good assembly language |
| 21:06.09 | Landon | kblin: I've always found the index in books retardedly useful compared to just ctrl+F |
| 21:06.09 | kblin | it's called C |
| 21:06.21 | Landon | you should get on the publishers case about getting a better index algorithm :P |
| 21:07.00 | kblin | Landon: it's just that most books I had for university never had the stuff I really wanted to find in it's index |
| 21:07.15 | kblin | unlike my "joy of cooking", which has a pretty good index |
| 21:07.32 | Landon | heh, joy of cooking ... :P |
| 21:07.38 | Landon | funny you bring that up |
| 21:07.53 | Landon | I was just thinking of the index of that |
| 21:08.00 | kblin | :) |
| 21:09.27 | thebolt | kblin: well, volume 2 and 3 of the ia32 manual is just a big index, all assembly instructions from A to Z.. ont that hard to find in ;) |
| 21:10.34 | Landon | thinks we really need to step up to the plate and get that psychic interface made |
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| 21:11.02 | robbyoconnor | gets the pyscho interface mode working |
| 21:11.21 | robbyoconnor | revs up the chainsaw |
| 21:11.37 | thebolt | Landon: the DWIM-interface? ;) |
| 21:11.44 | Landon | indeed |
| 21:12.16 | Landon | "I see you're using a bubble sort, let me fill in a more appropriate algorithm" |
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| 21:14.29 | kblin | sucks if your assignment is "program a sort using bubble sort" :) |
| 21:15.44 | Landon | but it's psychic! |
| 21:15.46 | Landon | :P |
| 21:16.22 | Landon | that's the beauty of it, the perfect interface |
| 21:16.31 | robbyoconnor | http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/looflirpa/beer.shtml |
| 21:16.32 | robbyoconnor | LOL |
| 21:16.34 | Landon | ... except when you're at work |
| 21:16.35 | kblin | right.. |
| 21:16.43 | Landon | then you run into the "Don't think of porn" problem |
| 21:17.14 | robbyoconnor | "I see you're gonna look at porn, STOP IT MISTER!" |
| 21:17.21 | kblin | you need a more interesting job |
| 21:17.30 | robbyoconnor | "Do it and i'll email your boss!" |
| 21:17.37 | thebolt | or you will need a new job after that ;) |
| 21:18.33 | robbyoconnor | thebolt: only if you get caught. |
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| 23:45.31 | getxsick | hi |
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| 23:59.16 | getxsick | anyone remember a toll free number to citi? |
| 23:59.23 | getxsick | forgot my pass to account |