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| 17:06.01 | skbohra | waves hello to everyone :) |
| 17:06.33 | Chainsaw | Hi there :) |
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| 18:53.18 | MatthewWilkes | to those of you at the women in FLOSS sessions at the mentor summit, check out this awesome blog post: http://sufficient-champagne.blogspot.com/2009/10/fairer-plone.html :D |
| 18:55.32 | straydawg | MatthewWilkes: going there now |
| 18:57.02 | straydawg | MatthewWilkes: interesting. |
| 18:57.12 | straydawg | MatthewWilkes: i read the whole thing thinking the title was 'fairer phone' |
| 18:57.18 | straydawg | so it wasn't what i expected ;) but i get it now. |
| 18:57.47 | straydawg | MatthewWilkes: uselessest session i went to btw imho. |
| 18:57.59 | MatthewWilkes | oh? |
| 18:58.45 | straydawg | i didn't like the fact that the session (intentionally) skipped the 'what is the problem anyway?' part. |
| 19:00.08 | straydawg | don't get me wrong, i'm sympathetic to the cause (i swallowed a few "i am offended as a man now" moments even).. |
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| 19:03.38 | schumaml | the thread about anonymous contributions did originate from this session as well? |
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| 20:10.18 | Nightrose | is very very happy that the session skipped th "what is the problem" part and instead actually produced something usable to improve the situation |
| 20:10.50 | Nightrose | it was the first session/discussion of that kind i went to that actually had any useful results |
| 20:11.25 | Nightrose | and trust me i went to a lot of them |
| 20:11.42 | Nightrose | schumaml: yes it did |
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| 20:38.17 | ojwb | missed the session, but is glad that it seems to have been productive |
| 20:38.22 | ojwb | are there any notes from it? |
| 20:46.00 | russellb | can't help but wonder how different the open source trends really are than the trends in math/science in general |
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| 20:52.49 | Jeff_S | russellb: open source tends to attract fewer women compared to percentages in CS in general |
| 20:53.29 | russellb | Okay, that's interesting. I just didn't know if the trend was different, and by how much |
| 20:53.31 | ojwb | and by enough that it's pretty clearly significant |
| 20:53.40 | russellb | I guess I should have attended the session(s) :-p |
| 20:53.46 | tierra | the session notes include: "There are between 15% and 25% women in conventional software development whereas there are 1.5% - 2.5% in FLOSS." |
| 20:53.51 | ojwb | I think it's about 2% in open source and more like 20% in general |
| 20:53.54 | tierra | but that's about all that's in the notes |
| 20:53.57 | Jeff_S | I wasn't there this year :( but I've had this discussion... |
| 20:54.22 | russellb | 15 to 25, really? |
| 20:54.36 | ojwb | that doesn't fit with places I've worked, admittedly |
| 20:54.39 | russellb | I've certainly never experienced a ratio like that in any school or professional setting |
| 20:54.55 | tierra | yeah, I was a little surprised by that, I thought it was much less, but I haven't been back to school in over 6 years |
| 20:55.12 | russellb | yeah, perhaps current enrollment trends have changed. |
| 20:55.19 | tierra | yeah, maybe |
| 20:55.33 | tierra | I still don't think I see that professionally though now |
| 20:55.42 | russellb | So, here at my work, my engineering department has say 40 people. We have one female engineer, and she's a temporary intern. |
| 20:56.11 | tierra | I would have figured about 5-10% at most |
| 20:56.13 | russellb | and my open source project has zero female contributors, heh. |
| 20:56.21 | russellb | maybe we smell bad |
| 20:56.21 | tierra | same here |
| 20:56.25 | tierra | heh |
| 20:56.27 | Jeff_S | russellb: "maybe" ? :) |
| 20:56.30 | russellb | :-p |
| 20:56.33 | Jeff_S | heh |
| 20:58.06 | ajuonline | who smells bad? |
| 20:58.15 | ajuonline | sorry I just woke up |
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| 21:00.30 | tierra | "Between 2000 and 2005, the number of college women studying computer science in the U.S. plummeted 70 percent. Last year, only 21 percent of computer science graduates were women, down from 37 percent in 1985, according to the Forbes Web site." |
| 21:00.35 | tierra | huh? |
| 21:01.17 | ojwb | nicely non-corresponding figures there |
| 21:01.33 | ojwb | 1985 - "last year" vs 2000-2005 |
| 21:01.36 | tierra | yeah, I don't know that I trust this article |
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| 21:03.44 | ojwb | i was curious about the title of the session "Reversing the trend [...]" which suggests the number of woman in open source is falling |
| 21:07.02 | schumaml | we lost some female contributors because one female contributor was harassing them in the past. |
| 21:07.51 | schumaml | I guess that counts as epic fail |
| 21:07.54 | ojwb | wow |
| 21:08.02 | tierra | CMU reports 8% women in CS in 1995, and 42% in 2000: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/gendergap/www/index.html |
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| 21:11.07 | ajuonline | one of the senior members we have is a female professor/ACM distinguished scientists |
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| 21:21.16 | hypa7ia | tierra: sadly CMU is back down in the 20%'s from what i hear |
| 21:21.47 | tierra | that's disappointing |
| 21:22.11 | hypa7ia | the number of women in CS in generally has been falling since the 80's. that quote you had was odd, but that's the trend i've read about. |
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| 21:25.42 | tierra | well, I don't really understand that quote, and I don't think the original writer did either, I think some numbers are mixed up there or something, either way, it's hard to come to any conclusion the way it's worded |
| 21:26.02 | tierra | it was some local paper's article |
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| 21:37.34 | tierra | interesting... I found an article that asked CMU what they did to bring the numbers up to 40%.... |
| 21:37.43 | hypa7ia | tierra: they wrote a whole book on it |
| 21:37.44 | tierra | "Your research has had an impact on the computer science department of Carnegie Mellon, raising women's enrollment in the program from 7 percent in 1995 to 42 percent in 2000. How? What can be done to get more women involved in the field? " |
| 21:37.51 | tierra | "What happened at Carnegie Mellon is that there was an accounting for this different motivation. There's been an attempt to teach computing in a more interdisciplinary way. Also, the university accounted for the different levels of experience--one of our findings being that women came in with different levels of experience, but there was no difference in ability. " |
| 21:37.58 | tierra | " |
| 21:37.59 | tierra | A new set of courses was introduced in the first year, allowing everyone to self-select where they wanted to be according to their experience, and then everyone would be at a similar level by the second year. That means you wouldn't have students with little experience sitting next to someone that's been hacking their whole life and then get really discouraged." |
| 21:39.17 | hypa7ia | http://books.google.ca/books?id=StwGQw45YoEC |
| 21:39.44 | tierra | ah, yeah, I saw that in the first CMU article I linked |
| 21:39.51 | hypa7ia | it's a fantastic book |
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| 21:41.01 | ajuonline | I was reading through hypa7ia blog, and u speak up :P |
| 21:41.20 | hypa7ia | haha |
| 21:41.23 | hypa7ia | hides |
| 21:41.33 | ajuonline | hypa7ia: mind stalker! |
| 21:42.09 | ajuonline | hypa7ia: howdy :)? |
| 21:43.11 | hypa7ia | is doing well |
| 21:43.26 | hypa7ia | has to get through a stack of phishing false positives before going home though :s |
| 21:44.14 | ajuonline | how many more hours before that happens? |
| 21:44.33 | hypa7ia | only about 20 minutes :) |
| 21:45.13 | ajuonline | its like 2 pm there? and ur already going home? :P |
| 21:45.32 | hypa7ia | i'm in EST |
| 21:45.33 | hypa7ia | toronto |
| 21:45.44 | hypa7ia | so it's nearly 6 |
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| 21:46.39 | ajuonline | ah ok, i thought PDT |
| 21:47.30 | hypa7ia | nope, i'm in seattle regularly but live in toronto |
| 21:49.16 | ajuonline | So I learned today, all of Canada is not PDT. at least the peeps I talk to live in PDT, so I assumed :) |
| 21:49.32 | hypa7ia | haha, awesome |
| 21:52.09 | hypa7ia | i think there's a sogn |
| 21:52.12 | hypa7ia | oops |
| 21:52.38 | hypa7ia | should have read "there's a song about that by the Arrogant Worms" |
| 21:52.56 | hypa7ia | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vxDDcTc64c |
| 21:53.12 | ajuonline | about timezones? |
| 21:53.20 | hypa7ia | no, about canada being big :) |
| 21:54.10 | ajuonline | :) |
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| 21:55.26 | ajuonline | my friend who's gonna present in the US soon, tells me, he wwants to make sure to tell the americans by having a Canada map in the slides |
| 21:55.37 | ajuonline | so that they dont assume, they live in igloos or something |
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| 21:56.53 | ajuonline | for now, i just wish, it was big enough, that it could share borders with India :P |
| 21:57.04 | ajuonline | i would have to travel less |
| 21:57.15 | ajuonline | s/he/she* |
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