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07:28.46codestasherhey all , anyone up ?
07:29.05runasand:)
07:29.34codestasherhey runasand
07:29.40Landonanyone here in remote sensing?
07:29.54codestashernot me :P
07:30.15codestashercan anyone guide me in web designing
07:30.18codestasher:)
07:30.38kblincodestasher: sure. first, forget everything you know about programming
07:30.46codestashernice
07:30.50runasandhehe :)
07:30.55codestasherforgot
07:30.57codestashernow wht
07:31.01kblincodestasher: as a next step, start beliving that bling == good
07:31.12kblinbelieving, as well
07:31.15runasandnow you're on the right track
07:31.35codestasheri can see my web page :P
07:32.15kblinand next, pick the web design tool du jour and start doing your website
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07:32.54kblinit just needs to work on IE 8 in vista, nobody uses anything but the latest browsers anyway
07:33.26kblinuse silverlight in addition to flash, you have both plugins installed anyway
07:33.27thebolthi all
07:33.36kblinhi thebolt
07:33.54codestasherthnx kblin but can i get some tutorials /
07:34.00kblinif you followed this advice, you're on par with most web designers out there
07:34.04kblin</rant>
07:34.31runasandcodestasher: what do you want to do? do you know css, for example?
07:34.40codestashernot much
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07:34.50codestasherhave worked on ASP
07:35.12codestasherfollowed some e-book with all sitemap stuff
07:36.44runasandit would be good to have an idea about what you want to do
07:37.00codestasher:) i have
07:37.43codestasherjust not sure about wht to use for that
07:38.23runasand.. a bit hard to say without knowing what you want to do :)
07:38.59skbohrakblin: ^ IE8, silverlight :/
07:39.45kblinskbohra: from all I understood, web design is running after the greatest, latest crap
07:39.51codestasheri will go with wht kblin said then
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07:40.50kblinskbohra: then again, I'm just a low level C hacker, what do I know about web design
07:41.36skbohra:) codestasher
07:42.03runasandcodestasher: uhm :)
07:42.18runasandgives kblin "the look"
07:42.30codestasheryou all mentors ??
07:42.46skbohrakblin: well much share of market is still hold by IE6
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07:42.50skbohra:(
07:43.09dqminhkblin's first two advices are correct though :)
07:43.40runasandcodestasher: nah, student
07:43.56skbohraand as someone said, most time webdesigner spent is on "get the bastard work in IE6"
07:43.58codestasherfor gsoc even students are mentors i gues
07:44.32p_lcodestasher: one thing, since you used ASP. For fuck's sake, hyperlinks are done through <a href=...></a>, not javascript
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07:45.25runasandcodestasher: what makes you say that?
07:45.34dqminhjust forget everything about ASP seriously :)
07:45.44skbohra+1
07:45.47codestasherwhere does that come from i never said anything related to hyperlinks
07:46.24Catfish_Mancodestasher: most of the last 5-10 minutes has just been non-web-designers complaining about web designers
07:46.26Catfish_Mannot real advice
07:46.35codestasheryeah
07:46.56codestashernot at all a right place to ask about web designing :)
07:47.10codestasherrunasand i know i student who is also a mentor
07:47.34runasandcodestasher: I tried to help and said that I would need a bit more info about what you're trying to do, before I can give any "advice" about tools and such :)
07:47.35skbohrastudent is a mentor ?
07:48.03codestasheri will get to you later with all my requirements in details :)
07:48.10p_lcodestasher: as for _practical_ webdesign (i.e. nothing fancy, just make it work somehow): Keep yourself to some sane CSS, don't depend on JS unless you really have to, use plain old html for page content (unless you _really_ need something other). That's probably not a webdesigner would tell you, but it gives *usable* results for a non-webdesigner type :)
07:48.40codestasherthanks p_I
07:48.54codestasheri already got 1 project for summer
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07:49.04runasandcodestasher: yep, what p_l said.
07:49.07p_llooks at his poor mangled nick again
07:49.27codestasherwas just wandering if i could handle designing also
07:49.43skbohrap_l: +1
07:49.44runasandif you haven't done much web development, I suggest you start with something easy and work from there.
07:49.45skbohra:)
07:49.55codestashersure runasand
07:50.15p_lskbohra: I just always wonder about fonts others have when I see my nick mangled into p_1 or p_I ;-)
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12:08.29kblindecides to skip lectures today
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12:16.05kblinahrg
12:16.22kblinwhat happened to kmail in kubuntu 9.04?
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12:40.39runasandkloeri: kmail is probably mad at you for skipping lectures today ;p
12:41.14p_lheh, skipping lectures :D
12:41.29runasanderr, s/kloeri/kblin/
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13:12.38kblinrunasand: I doubt that
13:13.07kblinrunasand: I've already completed this lecture once, I was just planning to go there to prepare for an examn on the topic
13:13.16kblinrunasand: and I need to finish my thesis first
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13:17.52jbailey__<durinbot> Hi. I've never seen you before in #gsoc, so I just wanted to ask that you check the FAQ and userguide before asking questions.
13:17.54jbailey__*lol*
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13:19.04jbaileyNeat idea for the bot, though.
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13:44.01okidogi!logs
13:44.02socinfo"logs" is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc
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14:50.31summatusmentishi all
14:50.49omniteryello
14:51.07summatusmentishowsit?
14:51.20omniterpretty good, just moved into my new place. how are you? :)
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14:54.26borjahey summatusmentis, how's it going?
14:57.08summatusmentisborja: well enough :)
14:57.17summatusmentisomniter: I'm tired, needing to do homework
14:58.24omniterhomework? you're in high school?
14:58.52borjaheh
14:58.57borjaomniter: are you in the US?
14:59.02omniternope
14:59.08summatusmentisomniter: no, I'm very defnitely in college, finals are coming up
14:59.09borjahomework in college is very common in the US
14:59.24omniteroh jeez... thank gawd i'm not in the US
14:59.36summatusmentiswait, what? if I hadn't gone to school in the US, I wouldn't have to do homework?
14:59.36omniterthe only reason i'm doing so well in university is because i don't have homework.
14:59.45summatusmentisconsiders transferring
15:00.15borjasummatusmentis: when I came to grad school in the US, I was shocked when we got homework assigned on our first day of class. I had not done homework since high school.
15:00.17thebolthehe.. i was used to no homework for three years.. then i got here to taiwan as exchange student and got loads of them.. sucks
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15:00.30omniteras soon as i went from high school to uni, my average went up by 10. because i don't get marked on homework, which i never do. lol
15:00.38summatusmentisthat's awesome
15:00.48summatusmentisI need to go to school in another country
15:00.52ojwbin the UK at least, you wouldn't call it "homework", just "work"
15:01.10omniterright. because you can do it in the streets?
15:01.12omniter:)
15:01.29ojwbmore often, the library or lab or ...
15:01.39summatusmentiswell, yeah
15:01.41ojwbbut if the streets are your thing, go for it
15:01.56summatusmentiswhen I say homework, I mean "work outside of class, above and beyond class time"
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15:03.26summatusmentisborja: this means then that I may not be assigned homework while I'm abroad in the fall?
15:03.37borjasummatusmentis: where are you going?
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15:06.15summatusmentisborja: Universidad de Sevilla, or Universidad Pablo de Olavide (also in Sevilla)
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15:09.24borjasummatusmentis: awesome
15:09.37summatusmentisborja: I'm super excited
15:10.03borjasummatusmentis: yeah, you're unlikely to get homework in Spain, although that's slowly changing with the Bologna process (the new education system they're implementing in Europe)
15:10.23summatusmentisborja: you don't understand how excited this makes me :)
15:11.08borjasummatusmentis: plus, the south of Spain is the most easy-going part of Spain
15:11.22summatusmentisI'm all for easy going
15:11.25borjaheh
15:11.27summatusmentisman, whatever :-P
15:11.28jhilhaha
15:11.47borjaI'll be in Madrid this summer for a research internship, and also looking forward to it
15:12.08borjaprefers the Spanish work ethic
15:12.28borjaI like how I'm legally required to take weekends off, and *have* to take two weeks off in August while I'm there
15:12.28summatusmentisthe Spanish work ethic being?
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15:12.41p_lborja: what, saying everyday "manana"? :P
15:12.42borjasummatusmentis: 35 hour work week, strictly enforced
15:12.43summatusmentiscan I just be Spanish?
15:13.01borjasummatusmentis: and at least 30 vacation days per year, mandated by law
15:13.15summatusmentishow's the tech industry in Spain?
15:13.16borjaborja: So, for a 4-month internship, I have to take 10 days off
15:13.53borjaIt's pretty good, although obviously nowhere near what it is in the US
15:14.04borjaBut, for me, the selling point is the quality of life aspect
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15:14.30summatusmentismeh, myh sense of certain tech companies in the US is you're unofficially expected to work 60+ hours a week (code monkey stuff)
15:14.48borjaLast summer I worked in Madrid too, and I was much more productive in those four months than I've ever been here in the US, mostly because I was overall more relaxed and could spread out my work more evenly throughout those months
15:14.48p_lsummatusmentis: well, that's the point of using code monkeys
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15:14.59p_lsummatusmentis: IMHO cable monkeys have it better than coding ones
15:15.14summatusmentisp_l: cable monkeys being the lackeys for sysadmins?
15:15.34p_lsummatusmentis: aka PFY's/junior system administrators :D
15:15.44summatusmentisright right
15:16.11p_llackeys usually don't handle very expensive equipment, at least not where I worked :)
15:16.26summatusmentishaha, I guess that's fair
15:16.38antarustypically works > 40 hours by choice
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15:16.42antarusis a USian
15:16.54summatusmentisantarus: because you enjoy it?
15:17.33antarusI enjoy the extra benifits
15:17.48antarussuch as free dinner, which probably means I work an extra 4-5 hours a week
15:17.49summatusmentisyou get extra benefits for longer work hours?
15:17.58summatusmentisoh, that's fair :)
15:18.15p_lyeah, that's fair :)
15:18.36antarusno point in going home at 5:30 if I can eat free at 6:30: now obviously scheduling dinner at 6:30 is partly to keep me there extra time; I'm not retarded ;p
15:19.03summatusmentisand presumably you're not paid hourly
15:19.16antarusI was actually paid hourly when I started
15:19.18antarusit was great
15:19.20antarusovertime++ :P
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15:19.43p_lheh. The funniest overtimes are because of systems designated to count hours you spend working :D
15:19.45dandersonhere in switzerland we're much more sane
15:19.47dandersonfor example:
15:19.51dandersonI get in at 11:30
15:19.54dandersonjust in time for lunch
15:19.56dandersonthen dinner
15:20.01dandersonand then go home after my 8 hours
15:20.02danderson:P
15:20.08dandersonthat way, no extension necessary!
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15:20.23summatusmentisdanderson: I'd love that
15:20.23dandersonand if overtime is necessary, it works out well because I'm synchronized with mornings in California
15:20.29dandersonto coordinate with other teams
15:20.30antarusdanderson: I get in at 11:30 some days too
15:20.41antarusdanderson: but I'm actually pretty productive getting in at 9
15:20.42summatusmentisI need a job that'll let me work whenever i want
15:20.43dandersonantarus: I don't get in at 11:30 some days :P
15:20.55antarusdanderson: last friday I got in at 2:30pm ;)
15:20.59summatusmentisor grad school, I could keep being a student forever
15:21.13borjahas a love-hate relationship with grad school
15:21.24dandersonhehe, reminds me of an "I'm going to be late" email I saw recently
15:21.33summatusmentisborja: really?
15:21.43danderson"I was at karaoke last night, and my head hurts... I have only one word to explain this: ROCK! \m/"
15:21.47summatusmentisis PhD comic an accurate representation?
15:21.57dandersonreply: "What about 'alcohol' ?"
15:22.07Landonboo, my whiteboard has scratches in it
15:22.10jbaileydanderson, I will lurk forever on your team lists for the entertainment that comes by sometimes ;)
15:22.11borjasummatusmentis: PhD comics is very close to reality more often than not
15:22.11dandersonreply: "Alcohol isn't a concept, it's the implementation!"
15:22.33summatusmentisborja: that's not really reassuring :-P
15:22.55Landonsummatusmentis: the organizational chart is very true
15:23.09summatusmentisLandon: which?
15:23.14Landontrying to find it
15:23.17summatusmentisalso, you're undergrad :)
15:23.19borjasummatusmentis: I think the problem is that too many people perpetuate the notion that grad school should be a "rite of passage" before you get a PhD and can advance to greener fields.
15:23.20Landonkind of hard to search for, I don't remember any terms
15:23.37Landonsummatusmentis: doesn't mean I Can't see the structure at work :P
15:23.41borjasummatusmentis: so most graduate programs are structured around making you do insane amounts of work, most of which is neither conducent to your dissertation nor fun
15:23.42Landonexcept we don't have HS students
15:23.42summatusmentisborja: so very stress heavy?
15:23.45LawnGnomeborja: Yeah, don't get me started on that love/hate relationship. At the moment, with deadlines looming, I've swung towards the "hate" side. :)
15:23.46summatusmentisLandon: true
15:24.09borjasummatusmentis: it's very stress heavy but it's the "good stress"
15:24.22summatusmentisI'm not sure I'll have the grades for grad school anyway, so it may not matter
15:24.30LandonI'm tempted to look through all of them right now!
15:24.38borjaLawnGnome: Are you also a part of the brotherhood of grad students? ;-)
15:24.47borjaLawnGnome: I have a scary deadline on May 5th myself
15:25.06LawnGnomeborja: Indeed I am. Graduate film student here.
15:25.13borjaLawnGnome: wow, cool
15:26.48Landonsummatusmentis: thank god for fast internet
15:26.50LandonI'll find it
15:26.54summatusmentisha
15:26.55Landoncan't be much farther than the 500s
15:27.22borjaLandon: The one that hit close to home for me is the "You have to sleep, drink, and eat research" one
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15:27.30borjaLandon: A professor once gave me that spiel
15:27.46LandonI'm sure other departments are slightly more bearable than CS
15:27.56Landon:P
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15:28.13LawnGnomeLandon: That's a damned dirty lie if ever I heard one. :P
15:28.18borjaLandon: dunno... at least we have funding in CS :-P
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15:28.26LawnGnomeFund... ing?
15:28.51summatusmentishaha
15:29.03borjaLawnGnome: It's this thing where you actually get money to do your dissertation instead of having to work 2-3 jobs to make it through grad school
15:29.04LawnGnomeIn a good year, I can negotiate my way into borrowing the cheap versions of the gear I really need for about half the time I want it for. :)
15:29.15borjahas no idea how his friends in the humanities make it through grad school
15:29.29LawnGnomeborja: Yeah, I still get to hold down a full-time job as well as studying.
15:29.44LawnGnomeI'll tell you how we get through it: alcohol.
15:29.44summatusmentissee, there's no way I'd ever be able to do that
15:29.54summatusmentisI'd be super stressed, and probably break down
15:29.58LawnGnomeAlso pot... er, herbal supplements that are, of course, completely legal.
15:30.00Landonborja: well I'm sure EECE is close enough to get funding too :P
15:30.01Landonhaha
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15:30.25LawnGnomesummatusmentis: Ah, but when you're an arts student, that's actually a _good_ thing. :P
15:30.32borjaheh
15:30.42summatusmentisLawnGnome: inspiration and all that :-P
15:30.53LawnGnomePrecisely. :)
15:31.00p_lhmm... PhD comic... I'll have too look for that
15:31.09p_lfound
15:31.27summatusmentisI just did my "find a new webcomic, and read all of it up to recent" over the last couple days
15:31.29borjasummatusmentis: It all depends on the school, though. The University of Chicago just happens to be a very intense place. I have friends who are doing their PhD at other schools and are not subjected to the same stress levels
15:31.30summatusmentiswith PhD
15:31.59p_lsummatusmentis: I'm going to follow that one too, since I'll probably have to take a trip to Edinburgh this night
15:32.02summatusmentisborja: well, I suppose if my grades are good enough, I'd like to go to a quality school (CMU comes to mind)
15:32.44borjasummatusmentis: grades are only one factor (and not a particularly big one) in getting into grad school
15:32.59borjasummatusmentis: so don't be discouraged if your grades are not top tier
15:33.23jbaileysummatusmentis, There's also paying off the professor.
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15:33.49p_lI'm thinking of getting a PhD... despite that I still haven't finished my first year :P
15:33.49summatusmentisjbailey: "college student"
15:34.00summatusmentisthere's no such thing as enough money to pay off the professor
15:34.14jbaileyOh right.  Fair enough. =)
15:34.14Landonsummatusmentis: phdcomic over the past few days? intense?
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15:34.16Landoner
15:34.17Landonintense!
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15:34.31summatusmentisLandon: nah, it just means procrastination
15:34.33summatusmentisand late nights
15:34.39Landonstill
15:34.42Landonover a thousand
15:34.46Landonyou should get an achievement
15:35.16borjasummatusmentis: on the other hand, reading all the comics embodies the procrastination spirit of PhD Comics
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15:35.30summatusmentisborja: that won't help in grad school :-D
15:35.56borjasummatusmentis: you'd be surprised at how much procrastinating gets done in grad school :-P
15:36.12summatusmentishow much breaking down happens afterwards? :-P
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15:37.10LandonI should really write a script to do this for me
15:37.41p_l... balanced diet.. "half of them is beef flavour, the other half is shrimp flavour"
15:37.45p_lthat sounds like me
15:37.52summatusmentisLandon: by 'this' I assume you mean 'breaking down'
15:38.00Landonfinding that one strip
15:38.05p_lhttp://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=12
15:38.09LandonI'm doing like 2/s
15:38.11summatusmentisI ate ramen for a long time earlier this year
15:38.13summatusmentisurgh
15:38.28p_lsummatusmentis: depends on quality of ramen. the 7p one is really *bad*
15:38.45summatusmentisLandon: that means roughly 8 minutes, give or take
15:38.55p_lso I get supply drops from homeworld :P
15:39.03LandonI can go faster if I only check for size
15:39.07Landonbut I sitll find some funnies
15:39.10Landonat 850
15:39.19Landonhttp://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive/phd043007s.gif
15:39.21Landon:O
15:39.26LandonTHERE USED TO BE A COUCH IN MY OFFICe
15:39.37Landonlooked just like that!
15:39.46Landonhad an inflatable bed and clothes stashed under the cushions
15:39.47summatusmentisp_l: I don't eat meat, so I usually substitute the flavor packets
15:40.18summatusmentisnot that this somehow magically makes ramen better for you
15:40.38p_lsummatusmentis: but you at least eat fish, right? :D
15:40.47summatusmentisI try not to
15:41.04summatusmentisoccassionally I will
15:41.12summatusmentisthat word has too many doubles of letters in it
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15:41.28summatusmentisoh, just one s
15:41.34Landonok, I'm busting out the python
15:41.40summatusmentiss/occassionally/occasionally/
15:41.56summatusmentisLandon: at work? gross. At least wait until you get home >_>
15:46.47Landonactually
15:46.48Landontoo lazy
15:46.51Landonclicking is faster
15:48.03Landon500s
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15:51.56LandonI think I passed it
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15:55.07summatusmentisLandon: really not that big of a deal
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16:02.35LandonI will. find it
16:02.41Landonafter I stop playing with the new TV
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16:07.13pygihiiii
16:07.34Landonhas 47" of ubuntu now
16:07.35Landonhehehe
16:07.46Landontoo bad it's near useless
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16:07.55Landononly works on the computer that I don't use as much :\
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16:58.38sandrejevhi
16:58.44sandrejevI have a question
16:58.59theholyducksandrejev, why not just...
16:59.02theholyduckASK the question?
16:59.08theholyduckinstead of saying you have it?
16:59.11monsieurp:D
16:59.11durin42Don't ask to ask, just ask.
16:59.13MarkieMark1!anybody
16:59.13socinfoError: "anybody" is not a valid command.
16:59.13durin42!ask
16:59.15socinfo"ask" is Don't ask to ask, just ask. Meta-questions lead to meta-answers and wasted time.
16:59.25durin42Ok, good, socinfo knows that.
16:59.33sandrejevI sent my student ID and tax forms to ospoellenko@gmail.com like it was said in documentation
16:59.38sandrejevwill I get a reply
16:59.41sandrejev?
16:59.49sandrejevIt was 3 days ago
16:59.52durin42lh: ping, sandrejev has a question
17:00.12sandrejevsorry, went to gmail to search up email address :)
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17:01.44sandrejevanyone?
17:01.48MarkieMark1afaik it takes a while for 1 person to look at 1000 sets of documents, ISTR lh said it'll be a while, no point in holding your breath sandrejev
17:02.02lhsandrejev: what do you need
17:02.15lhsandrejev: no, no reply. hang on will find relevant thread
17:02.30lhdurin42: thank you for the ping
17:02.30sandrejevhm
17:02.45sandrejevbut the thread isn't setup yet?
17:02.49lhsandrejev: if we discover we dont have what we need, we will let you know. no need to worry, :)
17:03.03lhsandrejev: thread is on students mailing list. search for 1000 1 Ellen
17:03.06lhthen you will find it
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17:16.02cschmidt!numapps
17:16.03socinfo"numapps" is This year there are 395 mentoring org apps. That's less than the 500 last year, but there's also much less spam. There are 5900 proposals from 3500 students.
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17:17.19Ori_B0.o
17:17.22Ori_Bwell, that's... interesting.
17:17.31Ori_BAuthReply: I HATE YOU
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17:20.39vknechthello
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17:25.16Landonanyone here know pLSA? >.>
17:25.49vknechthi jwir3 :-)
17:25.54jwir3hey vknecht
17:26.09jwir3just got jorrit's email, and was confused by the date lol
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17:32.59Landonok now I know they're just makign stuff up
17:33.07Landon"Cosine of the angle between query and documents" :P
17:35.40MarkieMark1that's the dot product I suppose :)
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17:46.21KillerX_lh: ping
17:47.19pygiKillerX_, why are you buggng people? :D
17:47.22lhKillerX_: pong
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17:47.43p_lAny GSoCers in Edinburgh?
17:47.59KillerX_lh: pm :)
17:48.05LandonMarkieMark1: yeah, but it just struck me as funny that they were using query and documents
17:48.06lhKillerX_: go for it
17:48.13LandonI'm seeming to understand the algo more now though
17:48.36Landonis going to bench press a locomotive at this rate
17:48.49Landonyay for whiteboard!
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17:52.54LandonI revise my statement
17:53.00Landonyay whiteboard(s) and TV
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17:58.53ajuonlinepygi: meh
17:59.03ajuonlineshoots pygi
17:59.06ajuonline:D
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18:00.29pygiajuonline, ...
18:00.56ajuonlinepygi: how are you doing?
18:01.08pyginot well
18:01.09pygitired
18:01.10pygivery
18:01.28ajuonlineme too. but I got done with my exam today.
18:01.33ajuonline2 projects to submit now.
18:02.18t0mshm, is there any math student bored and willing to help me? :D
18:02.29dqminhajuonline: i still have 5 more exams :p
18:03.08ajuonlinedqminh: didnt you say, you had like 7?
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18:04.04dqminhajuonline: heh , i have 6 , finished 1 today :p
18:04.18codestashermine starting from 1st
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18:11.27jeffshantzt0ms: what do you need help with?
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18:13.41t0msjeffshantz: I need to solve integral from 0 to "a" from function: x*e(-x/2)
18:14.25jeffshantzHa.  I haven't done calculus in many moons.  Sorry, can't help you.  If we were talking about discrete math, then I might be able to.
18:14.36jeffshantzBut good luck with that ;)
18:15.19t0msjeffshantz: thanks :))
18:16.01jwir3t0ms: You need integration by parts
18:17.05lh!timeline
18:17.05socinfo"timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/timeline
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18:18.03t0msjwir3: I know... but after the integration by parts I get another integral from x^2*e(-x/2)
18:19.19jwir3ah yes... I remember this
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18:26.42kblinmeh
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18:27.00kblinit always feels weird having to quote Butt et al. on a paper
18:27.43ajuonlinelol
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18:30.57Landont0ms: you're not thinking recursively!
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18:31.41Landoniirc you can do some magic with that and define it as the original something
18:31.46Landonor something of that manner
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18:35.10MarkieMark1think, what is x*e^((x^2)/2) the derivative of?
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18:35.32omniterPI!
18:35.47MarkieMark1that's the answer to everything though
18:35.54Landonto the i!
18:36.46p_l42
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18:40.49t0msLandon: I have solved it already, thanks :)
18:41.13LandonI'd have busted out my 89
18:41.18Landonbut I'm too lazy, so good job
18:41.19Landon:P
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19:02.54kblinsigh
19:03.05kblinexec and fork is very inefficient
19:08.41durin42kblin: on what os?
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19:09.15kblindurin42: linux
19:09.21kblindurin42: but I do it alot
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19:10.26kblindurin42: I'm annotating around 10,000 RNA sequences with their possible secondary structure, and I can only get that data from an external program for now, so I need to fork and exec 10000 times
19:11.11kblinand then the same again for another program later on :)
19:11.25durin42ugh
19:11.28durin42that's no fun
19:12.06dandersonkblin: run a forkpool :P
19:12.59dandersonpools of processes that read instructions from a fifo, exec() it, instrumenting libc so that exit() and _exit() read a new program from fifo and exec that :P
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19:13.15dandersonit's like a thread pool, only more horrific! :P
19:15.11kblindanderson: I guess I can't do that from python easily
19:15.38dandersonkblin: it was a joke anyway
19:15.43dandersona sick, sick, twisted joke
19:15.45dandersonplease don't do this
19:15.54kblinI wasn't planning to
19:15.57Landonor if you do, don't open source it
19:15.57Landon:p
19:16.01kblinhehe
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19:16.37LandonI really want to nap :\ but my old roommate might come over to pick up his crap today
19:17.35kblincrap.. OSError: [Errno 24] Too many open files
19:17.43kblinI thought I had that one fixed
19:18.10summatusmentishi
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19:26.57Garuma!timeline
19:26.58socinfo"timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/timeline
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19:34.09kblinI seem to be leaking file descriptors...
19:34.13kblinannoying
19:35.21p_lkblin: can you compile statically?
19:35.39kblinpython?
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19:35.54p_loh. Then compile python interpreter statically :D
19:37.25kblinhmm
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19:37.36p_lstatic binaries get faster forks
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19:38.51kblinI'm more concerned about leaking fds right now
19:39.08kblinpython     8586        kai   63u      REG                8,3      773   589303 /tmp/tmpd0J6Oz (deleted)
19:39.18kblinwhy is that still open? I closed and unlinked it
19:41.27torbenh4kblin: you got the code of the program you need to run ?
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19:41.46kblintorbenh4: yeah
19:41.55kblinwell, depends
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19:42.02torbenh4kblin: build a .so and wrap it using ctypes ?
19:42.24kblinI don't want to start working on RNAfold and blast just now
19:42.32kblinnot a month before I need to hand in my thesis
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19:44.31summatusmentiskblin: I've asked you this, what's your thesis on?
19:44.35torbenh4thats not working on it... its just changing some build parameters and changing some printfs ?
19:45.12kblintorbenh4: haha., yeah "just some build parameters"
19:45.58kblinanyway, I wouldn't mind if I could make my script stop leaking temp files
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19:57.50summatusmentisI should install ubuntu
19:57.55summatusmentisagain
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19:58.17kblinsummatusmentis: protein engineering on aconitases
19:58.54torbenh4kblin: is that rnafold from vienna rna ? looks like all code is in rnalib anyways.
19:59.17summatusmentiskblin: oh, bioinformatics stuff?
19:59.49kblintorbenh4: I'm more concerned about blast
20:00.12kblintorbenh4: that's what's not only slow but also leaking files for me right now
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20:02.54kblinI just don't understand why the heck the files are listed as deleted but aren't closed after the function has run
20:04.55torbenh4kblin: unlinking does not close a file. but you said you ran close on the fd.
20:06.57kblinhttp://pastebin.ca/1406537
20:07.08kblinI seem to be leaking the temp file
20:07.35kblinfrom my python process, not from the NCBIStandalone.blastall(blast_exe, program, blast_db, file_name)
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20:08.07kblinas that just starts blast passing the string in "file_name"
20:08.29kblinbut I don't see why open(), write() and close() leaves me with the open file
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20:10.29torbenh4kblin: mkstemp returns an open fd to the tmpfile.
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20:10.39torbenh4kblin: you dont close that one
20:10.58kblinhm
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20:11.15kblinso how do I close that? fd is an int
20:12.53torbenh4kblin: os.close
20:13.11kblinah, os.close
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20:14.08kblinIRC, invented to make you find your answers a moment after you asked, thus making you look stupid
20:14.14kblintorbenh4: thanks
20:14.31torbenh4no problem :)
20:15.03kblinwhat part of germany are you from?
20:15.08torbenh4berlin
20:15.12kblinI owe you a beer
20:15.20torbenh4well... born in bremen :)
20:15.23kblina bit far for a beer, though :)
20:15.58kblinbut I'll try to keep that in mind when I'm in berlin at some point
20:16.10torbenh4ok :)
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20:16.30torbenh4where are you ?
20:16.35kblinTübingen
20:17.07Catfish_Manoh nice. Tübingen is beautiful
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20:17.31kblinI certainly like it
20:17.56kblinliving's a bit on the expensive side, but there's always something
20:18.17torbenh4does not like mountains :D
20:18.36kblinthere's no mountains in tübingen
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20:18.47summatusmentisyou don't like mountains!
20:18.49kblinI think the maximal elevation difference here is like 300m
20:19.29kblinwhich is a pain if you need to go uphill with your bike, arguably, but it's not a mountain
20:19.29torbenh4thats a huge mountain in my world.
20:20.15kblinof course coming from an area where you can see who's coming to visit you next weekend on wednesday, I guess your opinion differs
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20:20.20torbenh4in bremen we consider the muellberg, which *is* the highest elevation, a mountain
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20:22.16kblinI had a fun car ride through the swabian alb (max elevation is like ~900m, I guess) once, with a danish guy and an austrian girl.. the danish guy was all like "look! mountains!" and the austrian looks around, puzzled and asks "where?"
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20:24.55torbenh4haha :) that could be me. although i go like "look mountains" when i drive to hamburg.
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20:27.09ajuonlinejust sent his tax docs
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20:31.43kblinhaha!
20:32.03summatusmentisoh, I should do the whole "tax" thing too
20:32.13kblinreduced runtime by moving the rnafold run to a later place in the code. :)
20:32.36kblinlife is good again
20:33.35dqminhis waiting for Star Trek *happygeek*
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20:39.15Landonoh
20:39.20Landonwhat sort of stuff do we need to send in
20:39.28Landonshould probably get on getting a transcript
20:40.16summatusmentisyou don't need an official one do you?
20:42.27kuarezmaHi all, I know that the info is in the mailing lists, but I really want to be sure of something, I will be in two different countries during the summer, none of which is the United States, so I need to fill in two Foreign Certification Forms, one for each country, right?
20:42.38Landonsummatusmentis: I don't think so
20:42.45Landonjust proof of enrollment
20:42.47summatusmentisLandon: so where's the work involved?
20:42.49Landonhasnt looked hard yet
20:42.55Mekah, the gsoc stats spreadsheet got updated with stats for this year...
20:42.59Landonwell I've gotta go into the administrative building
20:43.00Landon:P
20:43.09Landonrequest a transcript, wait in line, gosh
20:43.25summatusmentisLandon: you don't have a place online to see an unofficial transcript?
20:43.42Landoneh not that I can think of
20:44.07Landonhopes we can do this by email this year
20:44.15Landonsince I don't know where I can get ahold of a fax machine :\
20:44.23summatusmentisMek: not the "by school" section?
20:44.30summatusmentisoh, seriously
20:45.04Mekhmm, no that one not it seems
20:45.21Landonvalid complaint!
20:45.30LandonI'm scared of office technology
20:45.34LandonI always seem to hit the wrong buttons
20:45.45Landon<-- technophobe
20:45.57Landonunless it's mine and I've had time to figure it out
20:46.03summatusmentisLandon: I'm astounded that people still use fax machines :(
20:46.14ajuonlineLandon: yes, you can email. i *think* at least for me. non-us ;)
20:46.40ajuonlinekuarezma: no. just one form.
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20:47.13kuarezmafor the country I have now, thanks, I got confused with some info in the FAQ
20:47.19ian_macwe use fax machines all the time
20:47.20ian_machandy
20:47.23kuarezma*I am now
20:47.47ajuonlinekuarezma: just one. because google needs that form, as a delcration for you, that you would not do any work in US soil.
20:47.49ian_macif you have something on paper and want to send it to someone else, it is quick and efficient
20:47.50summatusmentisLandon: from the FAQ "You have two options for returning all documents, this means both Proof of Enrollment and W9/Foreign Certification Form, to Google. It is highly preferred that you return them via email"
20:47.54ajuonlineand would take care of your taxes
20:48.35ajuonlineon your own*
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20:48.37kuarezmaokay, but then I have to declare the work in both countries?
20:48.47kuarezmaah, okay
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20:48.59summatusmentisian_mac: but.... but... scan->pdf->email
20:49.11ian_macwow, that's two extra steps
20:49.11summatusmentisand then you have a digital copy
20:49.19ian_macdon't always need a digital copy
20:49.25ajuonlinekuarezma: thats something you need to ask, some one else, maybe your University/ immigrations?
20:49.36summatusmentisdigital copy is way easier to keep track of
20:49.39summatusmentisand searchable :)
20:49.51summatusmentisand doesn't kill trees
20:49.56ian_macwell, sure...  but not all of our suppliers take orders by email
20:50.00kuarezmathanks ajuonline :)
20:50.04ian_macanyway, for the most part, I'd agree
20:50.06ian_macsometimes
20:50.08ian_macfax is just easier
20:50.29summatusmentisassuming you have/know how to use a fax machine
20:50.39ian_macknow how to use?  really?
20:50.40MaNIand love horrid quality documents
20:50.57ian_maccompared to scanning, pdfing and emailing?
20:51.09Mekmost people I know have never touched a fax machine their entire lifes...
20:51.33MaNIyou should be able to figure one out really quickly
20:51.40MaNIthey are not particularly complex
20:51.42summatusmentisian_mac: scanning is easy, I've honestly never touched a fax machine
20:51.46ian_macyou type in the number and press fax
20:51.47MaNIthey suck though
20:51.58ian_macwell, sure, they are what, 72 dpi?
20:52.03summatusmentisbut there are so many buttons!
20:52.07ian_macbut a lot easier than scanning in my experience
20:52.17summatusmentisI can run my scanner through software
20:52.18smtmsexcept you don't see your mistakes
20:52.19ian_macmy computer has more buttons than the fax machine
20:52.45summatusmentisbut you only need your mouse button :)
20:52.46smtmsian_mac, your computer is supposed to be computer, not office tool
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20:52.53summatusmentisand that
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20:53.20ian_machuh?
20:53.30ian_macanyway, this isn't really worth arguing about
20:53.31summatusmentisI say you only need your mouse button, I'd rather use a command line, but yeah
20:53.34MaNIfax machines should be replaced with scanners that you enter an email address onto
20:53.38summatusmentisno, I'm right, fax machines suck
20:53.44summatusmentis:-P
20:53.44ian_machehehe
20:53.47ajuonlinesummatusmentis: the buttons are numeric, to dial in the number
20:54.07ian_macI agree fax technology could use updating
20:54.11ian_macto work on an IP network
20:54.16kblinsummatusmentis: you're mixing up devices
20:54.26kblinsummatusmentis: you're talking about vacuum cleaners
20:54.31ajuonlineof course he does that all the time. mixing up things :P
20:54.35ian_mac@kblin lol
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20:54.50summatusmentiskblin: you've seen the new vacuum cleaner/fax machine combos right? :-P
20:54.56summatusmentismade by dyson >_>
20:55.04ajuonline=))
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21:44.41p_lvacuum cleaner/fax machine combo?? fax with built-in garbage collector? :D
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21:47.19r0bbyLOL
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22:32.24torbenh4wonders if there is another one from berlin ?
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22:38.27holgertorbenh: good question. i am wondering if anyone from oldenburg got in this year. in 2007 i was the only one, in 2008 we were two. now i became a mentor ;)
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22:39.24holgertorbenh4:  where in berlin are you from?
22:39.36torbenh4pberg
22:40.09torbenh4holger: hah... oldenburg is almost home.... born in bremen.
22:40.22holgeralso heh. pberg - that's where my sister lives ;)
22:42.12torbenh4holger: what are you mentoring ?
22:42.25torbenh4err... which project :D
22:42.31holgergotta visit her sometime. it's been a while since i have been to berlin. nice memories @ simon-dach-str and k17.
22:42.49holgeroh, arm optimizations to x264 (under videolan umbrella)
22:45.02torbenh4oh... interesting... fixed point stuff also ?
22:45.50holgermostly neon (simd). x86 simd saw no takers this year (guess i really got most of the lower hanging fruit ;)
22:46.25torbenh4hmm... i have only been one time to k17 :D  i am more of a techno head though. but k17 also got some ebm.
22:47.27torbenh4i will need to port my stuff to fixed point when its done... so i might ask you some things :)
22:49.58holgerso we're even there. we had no idea where to go and asked @ paules metal eck. and they sent us there. turned out they had some anniversary, so entry was free (redeemed in free drinks), and barbecue in the court yard
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22:51.01holgerpretty new to neon too, but looks like a really interesting platform. going to get a beagle, and play with it
22:51.29holgerso well, sure, if it's asm, feel free to ask.
22:52.24torbenh4oh... nah. celt has a nifty set of macros, to do fixed point stuff.
22:53.16torbenh4but yeah... beagle board would be cool. however i want a board with a network interface.
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22:55.51holgerebv beagle comes with about everything, including a usb ethernet adapter.
22:56.04torbenh4i had my share of asm in the 90s but nowadays its so complex :S it was already too complex to keep in head on 68030..
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22:57.34holgerpreaching to the choir ;) i did my thesis on using perf counters to locate optimizable code in what was already supposed to be highly optimized asm ;) lead to the fastest x86 world currently known to exist ;)
22:57.59holgereh. s/world/satd in the world/
22:59.34theholyduckapply it to x264?
22:59.41torbenh4satd ?
22:59.50theholyduckany speed improvement to x264 would be awesome :P
22:59.57Catfish_Mantheholyduck: he did
23:00.00holgertorbenh4:  satd: sum of absolute transformed differences.
23:00.04theholyduckCatfish_Man, ah :P
23:00.11theholyduckwell moar then?
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23:01.03holgertheholyduck:  the easy targets are gone by now. currently looking at idct. not that useful for encoding, but more so for decoding.
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23:05.24holgertheholyduck:  or well, looking at it _again_. the obvious opts were already in with the satd patch http://git.videolan.org/?p=x264.git;a=commit;h=2dca5f5413051a26cbba4e20f3c77ff69b694ba3
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23:06.42torbenh4holger: hmm... i dont know much about video... and also have some problems understanding 2d transforms.
23:07.56torbenh4holger: i am more into audio :) nice and 1 dimensional.
23:08.16holgertorbenh4:  actually, once you got them, they're easy. i still do not know much about x264. but the leaf functions are pretty easy - get what they do, apply your simd knowledge, instant magic ;)
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23:09.00torbenh4holger: yeah. thats true... not necessary to understand the maths to optimize them :)
23:09.47holgerwell, i found a previously unused trick after really understanding what a hadamard transform was about. but audio? what are you working on?
23:09.55torbenh4holger: me project is improving/rewriting the packet loss concealment code of the celt codec (audio)
23:10.15holgerlink to abstract?
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23:13.47Dark_Shikarioh, he's doing celt
23:13.49Dark_ShikariThat thing
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23:14.02Dark_ShikariCelt is Interesting (TM)
23:15.18Dark_Shikariits arithmetic coder is bizarre though
23:15.43torbenh4holger: hmm... i proposed the project myself. cant find a link to my application
23:16.19Dark_Shikariand holger, you need to read a bit of background text -.- it takes just a few hours
23:17.01holgertorbenh4:  nm, found it. http://socghop.appspot.com/student_project/show/google/gsoc2009/xiph/t124025000372
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23:17.28theholyducki should cut down on the number of channels im in for the lulz
23:17.30holgerDark_Shikari:  on celt? just did some. have a rough idea now what they're about
23:18.08Dark_ShikariI meant about x264
23:18.15Dark_Shikariit's even on the soc wiki page
23:18.16torbenh4holger: however i need to inject mdct coeffs into the stream. currently trying to find out how to do that in a way which does not create artifacts in the time domain aliasing cancelation.
23:18.22Dark_Shikariand you were supposed to read it before applying last summer ;)
23:18.28Dark_Shikarihttp://www.mediafire.com/download.php?auxd23m2snw
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23:18.45Dark_Shikaritorbenh4: you're still at the point where you're allowed to modify the bitstream spec, right?
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23:21.15holgerDark_Shikari: lol
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23:21.30torbenh4Dark_Shikari: not me :)
23:21.48torbenh4but jm ... yes :)
23:21.52Dark_Shikarihow can you be not allowd to change the bitstream format yet not know how you're going to inject MDCT coeffs into the bitstream?
23:22.09theholyduckDark_Shikari, so what IS x264 getting from gsoc?
23:22.12theholyducksomething awesome?
23:22.26Dark_Shikaritheholyduck: 4:4:4/4:2:2, weightp, arm
23:22.40theholyduckwhy would we want arm support?
23:22.44theholyduck:P
23:23.02Dark_Shikaribecause we want to support the creation of high-performance CISC instruction sets designed by people who have a clue what they're doing
23:23.07Dark_Shikarialso, arms are cool.
23:24.47holgerand apart from that, think real time encoding of web cam streams (or at least, this is what i see in this for now until arms get faster)
23:25.13Dark_Shikariprobably potentially still too slow.  They need to pull an Intel and stuff more ALUs on the chpi
23:25.16Dark_Shikari*chip
23:25.49holgerwell. i want to see at least real time cif working after summer.
23:26.07p_laren't arms load-store?
23:26.47Dark_Shikariyes
23:27.02Dark_Shikariof course, their load-store capability is about 100x more complicated and versatile than x86
23:27.13Dark_Shikariwith single instructions that can load or store up to 16 registers at a time
23:27.25Dark_Shikariand the ability to insert values anywhere into a register on load without zeroing the rest
23:27.31Dark_Shikarithe ability to automatically "splat" a value across a register on load
23:27.42Dark_Shikarietc etc ec
23:28.03Dark_Shikarioh, and the ability to specify the alignment of a load or store, not merely "aligned" vs "unaligned"
23:28.08p_lwell, it's just that I read that as "ARM = CISC" at some point... but I'm getting sleepy and I've got around ~5h of sleep
23:28.21Dark_Shikariwell, in my opnion, even if you're load-store, if you're more complex than x86, you're CISC.
23:28.24holgerthe funny thing about this is really, that arm once stood for acorn _risc_ machine.
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23:28.30Dark_ShikariYeah, which I find hilarious
23:28.36Dark_Shikaria long time ago, it was actually a simple instruction set ;)
23:29.06p_lwell, that's why I prefer the term load-store... not many of "RISC" had simple ISAs :D
23:29.35Dark_ShikariI hate the term risc, it's become a marketing gimmick
23:29.38p_lafk - I need to get some sleep, train @6:50 UTC
23:29.42torbenh4Dark_Shikari: i am injecting the coeffs after the decoding. in case a packet is lost.
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23:30.00holgeri tend to think about it in terms of 2op arch vs. 3op arch.
23:30.00Dark_Shikaritorbenh4: ah, so you're trying to guess the coefficients lost due to a packet loss?
23:30.00Dark_Shikariholger: make that 5 operands
23:30.02torbenh4Dark_Shikari: yes.
23:30.08Dark_Shikariconditional + 3 register operands + shift ;)
23:30.11holgerwhich still leaves my wondering why neon has a register swap insn.
23:30.23Dark_Shikariholger: so you can swap doublewords in two quadword registers
23:30.30Dark_Shikaritorbenh4: Here's your problem
23:30.37Dark_ShikariLet's say you found a way to guess coefficients reasonably well.
23:30.49Dark_ShikariIf you did... you would be able to use those for *EVERY* packet as part of the prediction process
23:30.53Dark_Shikarithus improving coding efficiency
23:31.16Dark_ShikariSo, in any theoretically optimum coding method, you should not be able to guess any better than what is built into the spec
23:31.25Dark_Shikariif you can guess better, the spec is suboptimal
23:31.35holgerheh. currently #gsoc is far more on topic re x264 than #x264. someone up for touhou discussion? this can't continue for too long.
23:31.40Dark_Shikarilol
23:31.56theholyduckfeels like doing a comment about vlc not having a "make it suck less" gsoc task
23:31.59torbenh4heh ? :D
23:32.18Dark_Shikariactually, how the hell does the MDCT work in Celt anyways
23:32.22Dark_Shikariis it really a 40-sample MDCT?
23:33.36torbenh4Dark_Shikari: depends on the framesize. but smallest framesize is 64 iirc... so its a 64 coeff MDCT
23:34.01Dark_Shikariah k
23:34.40Dark_Shikariwell, here's what you can do, at the cost of significant CPU
23:34.59Dark_Shikarikeep a running model (an LPC, for example) of the amplitude of each coefficient from packet to packet
23:35.04Dark_Shikariupdate the model with every newly received packet
23:35.19Dark_Shikarithen, if a packet is lost, guess the values using the LPC corresponding to the given coefficient
23:35.36Dark_ShikariI wonder if this would be useful just for guessing the coefficient values in the first place, in which case it could be used as a prediction method
23:35.56holgertorbenh4:  so let me get this straight. they're aiming for even lower latency than lame? which currently has something like 48 samples i think.
23:36.09Dark_Shikariholger: no, mp3's mdct is much larger than that afaik
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23:36.21torbenh4Dark_Shikari: too intense... i also read a paper that MDCT coeffs change signs quite fast.
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23:36.36Dark_Shikaritorbenh4: keep track of the amplitude not the phase
23:36.54holgerhttp://lame.sourceforge.net/tech-FAQ.txt - see 2.
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23:37.31Dark_Shikariholger: er, it's 576 samples/frame
23:37.33Dark_Shikaricelt is 64
23:37.48holgerbut they say it can be decreased.
23:38.14Dark_Shikarisure, by violating the spec afaik
23:39.00torbenh4holger: you cant mdct a block of 576 samples, if you dont have them
23:39.35Dark_Shikaritorbenh4: are you allowed to use future packets to guess past packets' lost values?
23:39.38Dark_Shikarifor example
23:39.39Dark_Shikariif you have packets A, B, C
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23:39.42Dark_Shikariand you lose B
23:39.45Dark_Shikarican you use C to guess B?
23:39.48Dark_Shikarior are you not allowed to increase latency?
23:40.14torbenh4Dark_Shikari: i dont want to increase latency :D
23:40.49Dark_Shikariwell another thing you can do is keep a running average of the energy in each band
23:41.08Dark_Shikariand then pick a random phase, multiply by the energy, and thus guess the MDCT coeff for that band
23:41.20Dark_Shikarithis is not useful for prediction because randomized values don't save entropy
23:41.24Dark_Shikaribut it is useful for guessing values in a lost packet
23:41.31Dark_Shikarias it'll produce noise that closely matches the statistical properties of the audio
23:41.33torbenh4Dark_Shikari: however it might be the case, that when i need to compute C ... that B arived.
23:41.52Dark_Shikariwait, you're referring to packets coming out of order?
23:42.05torbenh4Dark_Shikari: jitter....
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23:42.16Dark_Shikariexplain?
23:42.28torbenh4Dark_Shikari: out of order packets are not happening very often.
23:42.34Dark_Shikarithen why are you worrying about them?
23:42.41Dark_Shikariyou just referred to a situation where you have packets A, B, and C
23:42.49Dark_ShikariB was lost, C came, but then B came after C
23:42.53Dark_Shikarithat's out of order packets
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23:43.20torbenh4Dark_Shikari: jitter means that a ping over atlantic take 200 +- 40ms
23:43.29torbenh4the 40ms being jitter.
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23:43.44Dark_Shikariwell then clearly your playback latency will have to be 240ms.
23:45.22torbenh4well... not a good example. but musicians playing together get annoyed when the latency between them goes beyond 25ms.
23:45.37Dark_Shikarithen they better not communicate over contintents
23:45.40Dark_Shikari*continents
23:45.51Dark_Shikariunfortunately there's this speed of light limit that gets in the way of things
23:45.52torbenh4which can be achieved with fastpath dsl lines inside .de
23:46.17theholyducktorbenh4, or by all of them taking to the authoban and meeting in rl?
23:46.22theholyduck.p
23:46.50torbenh4but some packets might take 30ms....
23:47.03Dark_ShikariI don't see what you're getting at here
23:47.09Dark_Shikariif for 10 seconds your latency rises to 30ms instead of 25ms
23:47.13Dark_Shikariyou are going to have to increase the latency
23:47.16Dark_Shikarithere's no magic about it
23:48.05holgertorbenh4: pretty much only with dsl 16000. fastpath on slower dsl is 15ms or so. times 2. vdsl is ~17.
23:48.56torbenh4it does not happen for 10 secs. it just happens for 2 packets. (like a big packet from another port blocking the line)
23:50.20torbenh4holger: well.. its not ping time in this case. its just a stream going to the other side and being played back.
23:50.55Dark_Shikariso the issue is you want to *pretend* these packets never exissted
23:51.00Dark_Shikariand instead try to conceal their loss
23:51.18holgeryeah, k. i love my vdsl bandwidth, but i miss the dsl16k rtt ;)
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23:52.26torbenh4Dark_Shikari: yes. but the missing packet still has an effect due to the overlap on the following packet. and when i decode that, the late packet may have arrived.
23:52.40Dark_Shikariwell that's not an issue, you just have to backtrack and decode it
23:52.46Dark_Shikariit just means that in the meantime you have to fill with some junk coeffs
23:52.48Dark_Shikariwhich can be derived as I said
23:52.58torbenh4Dark_Shikari: however random phases are nono...
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23:54.22torbenh4this is not video :) they are pretty audible.
23:54.49torbenh4problem is also the really short blocks... of course.
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23:56.54torbenh4i have a buffer of the last samples in time-domain. the current code determines pitch using autocorrelation, and mdcts from that block and just injects that.
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23:57.57Dark_Shikarikeep a running average of each coefficient's amplitude
23:57.57Dark_Shikarieven better, keep an average of the average, and the standard deviation
23:57.57Dark_Shikariand use that combined with a PRNG to generate approximate values
23:58.00Dark_Shikari(an average of the average) -> (an average), blegh
23:58.02Dark_Shikaribasically the theory is that the amplitude of coefficients will not change much between two packets
23:58.04Dark_Shikariand furthermore, phase is totally irrelevent
23:58.10Dark_Shikarijust pitch?  why not try to guess all the coeffs?
23:58.39torbenh4that will be my work ... gsoc did not even start yet :P
23:58.49Dark_Shikariand who said that means you can't start working? =p
23:58.59torbenh4i did... :D
23:59.01Landonprobably school :P
23:59.05Dark_Shikariall three of our students already had partially working projects before the due date of the applications =p

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