| 00:00.26 | grwi | dhart, from the previous years : ) |
| 00:00.37 | Landon | dhoss: google for drupal gsoc application |
| 00:00.41 | Landon | there's a HOWTO on it |
| 00:00.45 | dhoss | Landon: thanks |
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| 00:03.46 | ojwb | there are several orgs with example apps from previous years |
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| 00:12.56 | nexous | I'm currently an 18 year old high school senior. I will be graduating in early June. I am NOT jumping straight into any college or university, so therefore would I be able to participate in GSOC? |
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| 00:14.05 | dhoss | i think i should be more specific, where do i submit a student proposal? |
| 00:15.09 | tmbg37 | nexous: I don't think you can |
| 00:15.23 | Raim | dhoss: after you registered on the soc website, there will be an option. but discuss your proposal with your org first |
| 00:15.32 | nexous | tmbg37: darn. I kind of figured that I wouldn't be allowed. :/ |
| 00:16.45 | nexous | tmbg37: thanks for the answer though, I appreciate your help. |
| 00:16.55 | dhoss | Raim: thanks |
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| 00:17.50 | dhoss | Raim: sorry, but where's the SOC registration page? I see a Google Group but i'm failing to find the rgistration |
| 00:18.01 | ojwb | nexous: there's nothing stopping you getting involved with an open source project outside gsoc though |
| 00:18.20 | ojwb | and previous involvement is a bonus when applying in the future |
| 00:18.26 | Catfish_Man | dhoss: http://socghop.appspot.com/ |
| 00:18.34 | dhoss | Catfish_Man: aha, thanks |
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| 00:19.56 | grwi | !date |
| 00:19.56 | socinfo | Error: "date" is not a valid command. |
| 00:20.15 | grwi | ojwb, why not teach the bot in what format to enter your birthday date ?:) |
| 00:20.28 | grwi | !birthday |
| 00:20.28 | socinfo | Error: "birthday" is not a valid command. |
| 00:20.42 | C0D3R3D | ! |
| 00:21.26 | ojwb | if it doesn't say, file a bug against melange |
| 00:21.42 | ojwb | should accept iso format really |
| 00:22.21 | ojwb | anything else is going to result in a significant number of people transposing day and month |
| 00:22.34 | grwi | i might have not seen it because of konqueror's "proper visualization", i can't say if it's a bug |
| 00:22.50 | ojwb | istr it being unclear to me |
| 00:23.01 | ojwb | and it trying to pop up some calendar thing |
| 00:23.10 | ojwb | like I want to pick my birth date from a calendar... |
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| 00:30.58 | thomastc | yeah, I too didn't really see the point of the calendar |
| 00:31.38 | thomastc | the target audience is perfectly capable of parsing a string like "yyyy-mm-dd", or else they should go away |
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| 00:32.29 | gutworth | are there some hints for what to include in a project proposal? |
| 00:32.36 | gutworth | (as in a webpage) |
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| 00:33.07 | homunq | gutworth: depends on the org |
| 00:33.41 | gutworth | I seem to remember sample applications were provided in previous years |
| 00:33.44 | tntcoda | is there a reason why underlined text doesnt show in public view of an application? |
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| 00:35.14 | homunq | gutworth: depends on the org |
| 00:35.34 | homunq | tntcoda: sounds like a bug. Have you looked at the page source? |
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| 00:36.07 | tntcoda | well, when i save it in the editor it auto removes the underlining from the visual editor, so its not even getting to the source |
| 00:36.32 | tntcoda | i swear it worked earlier in the day as well :p |
| 00:36.33 | ojwb | thomastc: my guess is it's a standard date entry control from some widget library |
| 00:36.50 | ojwb | !advice |
| 00:36.51 | socinfo | "advice" is http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code/wiki/AdviceforStudents for students, http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code/wiki/AdviceforMentors for mentors |
| 00:36.56 | ojwb | gutworth: read that ^^ |
| 00:37.12 | gutworth | ah, thank you |
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| 00:37.35 | ojwb | AdviceforStudents is really good - everyone should have read it |
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| 00:38.10 | grwi | it's interesting yes, |
| 00:38.17 | grwi | i just learned to be bolder : ) |
| 00:38.33 | ojwb | *grwi* ? |
| 00:39.42 | grwi | *approach the community earlier, don't hesitate to ask questions, etc.. for students gave me a little courage : ) |
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| 00:41.48 | ojwb | it was a joke - *this is bold* is common plain text and wiki markup |
| 00:42.41 | summatusmentis | and in irssi, it's made bold |
| 00:42.53 | summatusmentis | for easy recognition |
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| 00:46.12 | glaksmono | wh00t |
| 00:46.20 | glaksmono | getting bored again |
| 00:46.21 | glaksmono | haha |
| 00:46.26 | summatusmentis | bored? |
| 00:46.32 | summatusmentis | how is that possible? |
| 00:46.40 | koryk | there is so much GSoCing to do! |
| 00:46.44 | summatusmentis | you're not submitting enough applications if you're bored |
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| 00:47.51 | glaksmono | summatusmentis: which orgs are you applying to? |
| 00:47.57 | summatusmentis | OpenAFS |
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| 00:49.34 | tntcoda | what happens if (all be it unlikely) more than one organisation accept your application? Who decides which project you get allocated to? |
| 00:49.55 | glaksmono | summatusmentis: only 1? |
| 00:50.14 | summatusmentis | glaksmono: yeah, that's who I worked with last year |
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| 00:50.44 | glaksmono | oh i c.. |
| 00:50.56 | glaksmono | i want to get web apps project.. kk.. |
| 00:51.54 | phrame | April 15: |
| 00:51.54 | phrame | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:52.01 | phrame | tntcoda: ^ |
| 00:52.12 | phrame | from the timeline |
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| 00:52.42 | phrame | sounds like someone decides who you're paired with, though the timeline isn't specific in saying if it's just the google people or if the organizations get a say in itt |
| 00:52.43 | tntcoda | ah thanks |
| 00:52.48 | phrame | it* |
| 00:52.56 | phrame | sure |
| 00:54.49 | summatusmentis | the orgs work it out |
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| 00:58.48 | ojwb | google decides if the orgs can't |
| 00:59.11 | ojwb | if you're in that situation, do make sure the orgs know your preference, though it might be ignored |
| 00:59.22 | ojwb | if you don't want to end up doing a project, don't apply for it! |
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| 01:06.05 | Landon | http://code.google.com/p/tircd/ |
| 01:06.06 | Landon | oohoo |
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| 01:07.41 | summatusmentis | Landon: cool! |
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| 01:09.07 | scorche | not it isnt..it is a travesty! |
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| 01:18.39 | warren | lh: hi. I was told to ask you questions about an unusual GSoC problem... |
| 01:19.13 | lh | warren: go ahead |
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| 01:19.15 | warren | lh: I have a developer who is too young to be the Google SoC student, but could possibly be a SoC mentor. Is there an age minimum for mentors? |
| 01:19.30 | warren | lh: I hear there was a mentor last year 15 years old. |
| 01:19.35 | summatusmentis | ooh ooh! |
| 01:19.44 | summatusmentis | jumps around waving his hand in the air |
| 01:19.52 | lh | no age minimum for mentors but some hoops |
| 01:19.57 | lh | please email lhospo@gmail.com |
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| 01:20.13 | warren | lh: that's you? |
| 01:20.33 | warren | summatusmentis: was that you last year? |
| 01:20.43 | summatusmentis | warren: no, but I knew the answer to your question :) |
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| 01:21.15 | warren | Ryan52: <lh> no age minimum for mentors but some hoops <lh> please email lhospo@gmail.com |
| 01:21.18 | summatusmentis | just in a goofy mood, tired of writing |
| 01:21.29 | warren | Ryan52: are you interested in helping that project? |
| 01:21.56 | lh | warren: yes that is me |
| 01:22.11 | Ryan52 | warren: the instantmirror thing? sure, I guess. =P |
| 01:22.24 | warren | Ryan52: ok cool, go ahead and e-mail lh. |
| 01:23.22 | lh | Ryan52: thanks |
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| 01:24.08 | Ryan52 | k, will do. (later, once I get home or to some other place with stable internet...) |
| 01:26.10 | thebolt | Morning |
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| 01:48.54 | allen | hi, all |
| 01:49.30 | summatusmentis | hi |
| 01:49.56 | qsx | hi |
| 01:50.10 | allen | summatusmentis: I have submitted my application, but no mentor reviews it.. |
| 01:51.24 | ojwb | allen: how long ago? |
| 01:52.16 | allen | about 36 hours ago. |
| 01:52.21 | summatusmentis | allen: They may not list it as under review until the app period ends |
| 01:53.12 | allen | summatusmentis: you mean they may review my application until April 3? |
| 01:53.22 | ojwb | we don't seem to get notifications of new applications, but I'd not necessarily expect someone to review within 36 hours |
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| 01:53.46 | summatusmentis | allen: it's possible |
| 01:54.06 | allen | summatusmentis: thanks |
| 01:54.11 | ojwb | you could try asking politely on irc or the list if there's anything you can do to improve it |
| 01:54.26 | allen | ojwb: ok, thanks |
| 01:54.33 | summatusmentis | yeah, I'd do that |
| 01:54.41 | ojwb | posting your application, or a link to it, to the list for public comment might be useful too |
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| 01:54.58 | ojwb | on the webapp only mentors can comment; on the list, anyone interested can |
| 01:55.17 | summatusmentis | oh, you mean external link, yes |
| 01:55.24 | ojwb | ah yes |
| 01:55.29 | allen | ojwb: list? |
| 01:55.30 | ojwb | I mean put a copy on your website, etc |
| 01:55.39 | ojwb | the projects mailing list, assuming they have one |
| 01:55.51 | allen | ojwb: ah. good idea |
| 01:56.54 | glaksmono | haiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii |
| 01:56.54 | summatusmentis | hi glaksmono |
| 01:56.54 | allen | ojwb: you said you don't get notifications of new applications, did you mean if anybody submitted application you will get notifacation? |
| 01:56.57 | glaksmono | hi again summatusmentis, how's ur apps going? |
| 01:57.09 | summatusmentis | far slower than it should be |
| 01:57.30 | ojwb | allen: I'm admin for an org; not had an email from the system to inform me about either of the applications we've had so far |
| 01:57.35 | glaksmono | kk.. gl |
| 01:57.48 | ojwb | so I only know because I'm checking every so often |
| 01:58.14 | allen | ojwb: strange, I've already submitted my application to opensuse |
| 01:59.15 | ojwb | i'm not sure if it's meant to or not, but assuming it's not just me, the opensuse mentors may not know about your application if they aren't checking |
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| 01:59.57 | allen | ojwb: maybe I need send an email to the mentor |
| 02:00.01 | allen | ojwb: thanks again |
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| 02:08.20 | marcosRz | hi |
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| 02:09.40 | marcosRz | I was wondering to develop a web based project (Php + Apache + Mysql) is it better to use a more stable linux distro like Debian or use Ubuntu ? |
| 02:09.59 | dhoclone_plan9 | I really don't think it matters. |
| 02:10.06 | KNY | I've never had a problem with my ubuntu server |
| 02:10.16 | KNY | they're both excellent |
| 02:10.20 | dhoclone_plan9 | (From someone who has co-authored 2 PHP books and doesn't use Linux) |
| 02:10.30 | marcosRz | =] |
| 02:11.09 | marcosRz | I was thinking that too, since some especific tools are available only for Windows. By using windows to develop a open source project, even if its a Web project, isn't that a little uncosistent? |
| 02:11.09 | summatusmentis | I don't feel like it matters either, but debian touts stability |
| 02:11.18 | p_l | awww, MySQL <--- can't get over his dislike ;-) |
| 02:11.22 | dhoclone_plan9 | I don't use Windows either |
| 02:11.31 | marcosRz | bsd? |
| 02:11.33 | dhoclone_plan9 | p_l: Heh. |
| 02:11.36 | dhoclone_plan9 | marcosRz: :) |
| 02:11.43 | marcosRz | :X |
| 02:11.58 | dhoclone_plan9 | is one of those damn OS elitists. |
| 02:12.12 | p_l | was using NetBSD when he decided to never use MySQL again |
| 02:12.15 | marcosRz | for example there is a software X that is only available for windows, wouldn't that be some how incosistent? |
| 02:12.28 | dhoclone_plan9 | Says the guy typing this in PuTTY on his girlfriend's WinXP SP2 box :( |
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| 02:12.47 | marcosRz | never tried a bsd |
| 02:12.58 | dhoclone_plan9 | It's worth a shot :) |
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| 02:13.17 | dhoclone_plan9 | So is Plan 9, but Plan 9 doesn't have PHP. It also doesn't have MySQL. I also think that it doesn't really want either. |
| 02:13.34 | p_l | I like certain differences between *BSD and most of current linux distros |
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| 02:13.41 | dhoclone_plan9 | So it's probably not a good choice for a PHP/MySQL project |
| 02:13.48 | LawnGnome | p_l: I think MySQL hatred transcends operating system. :P |
| 02:13.54 | marcosRz | Actually my first distro was red hat in 2000 , and it's a horrible experience. Since I was 13 and that time linux didn't support OTB hardwares... |
| 02:13.55 | dhoclone_plan9 | hier(7) |
| 02:14.10 | dhoclone_plan9 | That is all. |
| 02:14.16 | marcosRz | in 2000 did gnome existed? |
| 02:14.17 | p_l | hmmm... |
| 02:14.23 | dhoclone_plan9 | marcosRz: yeah |
| 02:14.29 | p_l | marcosRz: yes, it existed, as well as KDE 1.1 |
| 02:14.52 | marcosRz | I wanted to try Red Hat, because It was so cool this virtual desktop LOL |
| 02:15.00 | p_l | started at the same time, except he was 11~12? during his first try |
| 02:15.03 | dhoclone_plan9 | aaaaaaaaanyway, I'm out for the evening |
| 02:15.05 | marcosRz | but since I had only 13 years |
| 02:15.06 | marcosRz | :/ |
| 02:15.12 | marcosRz | It was hard to use it |
| 02:15.17 | p_l | dhoclone_plan9: cya :) |
| 02:15.18 | thebolt | heh, my first experience was slackware 97.. |
| 02:15.24 | dhoclone_plan9 | is tired of fending off people on 9fans who don't understand the purpose of GSoC |
| 02:15.32 | p_l | dhoclone_plan9: what happened? |
| 02:15.32 | summatusmentis | I started on mandrake |
| 02:15.37 | thebolt | but nowdays i run windows exclusivly on my "gui"-systems .P |
| 02:15.44 | thebolt | (xp sp2 atm.. stable as a rock) |
| 02:15.50 | dhoclone_plan9 | p_l: Couple students are asking about projects and people are like ``lame'' |
| 02:16.08 | dhoclone_plan9 | or the guy who tried to bring in the iPhone SDK license agreement to say that you couldn't port drawterm to iPhone |
| 02:16.13 | dhoclone_plan9 | (drawterm is like VNC, kind of) |
| 02:16.13 | p_l | dhoclone_plan9: oh, bad style elitism strikes again? |
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| 02:16.19 | summatusmentis | dhoclone_plan9: kick them :) |
| 02:16.29 | dhoclone_plan9 | because it would provide access to programs not provided by the app store |
| 02:16.33 | dhoclone_plan9 | I facepalmed. |
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| 02:16.48 | dhoclone_plan9 | And then replied ``So does SSH, but nobody's banning that.'' |
| 02:16.58 | ojwb | so does a web browser |
| 02:17.02 | dhoclone_plan9 | ^ |
| 02:17.06 | dhoclone_plan9 | it's a retarded argument |
| 02:17.26 | dhoclone_plan9 | A lot of it is also because some of the more core people don't `get out much' |
| 02:17.26 | ojwb | might stand up in court of course! |
| 02:17.30 | p_l | the point in iPhone license was about running non-signed code on the phone itself |
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| 02:17.46 | dhoclone_plan9 | ojwb: They'd have to actually uphold it more diligently in all cases. |
| 02:17.51 | dhoclone_plan9 | ojwb: and honestly |
| 02:17.53 | p_l | (that's why there is no Flash/Java) |
| 02:18.03 | dhoclone_plan9 | ojwb: Plan 9 has less than 100 users. |
| 02:18.14 | dhoclone_plan9 | ojwb: I think they'll kill ssh before they kill drawterm. |
| 02:18.22 | p_l | as well as the reason why there is no Lisp for non-jailbroken iPhones |
| 02:18.27 | ojwb | was joking, mostly |
| 02:18.27 | dhoclone_plan9 | I'd be surprised if drawterm got more than 10 downloads. |
| 02:18.41 | dhoclone_plan9 | I'm not joking about those numbers, sadly |
| 02:19.09 | ojwb | seems mean not to let you run code on the device you just bought |
| 02:19.09 | dhoclone_plan9 | The successor to UNIX failed at succeeding UNIX. |
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| 02:19.24 | dhoclone_plan9 | Yeah. |
| 02:19.32 | ojwb | dhoclone_plan9: don't be sad, several other successors to UNIX have to |
| 02:19.45 | dhoclone_plan9 | ojwb: Yeah, but Plan 9 was written by the people who wrote UNIX ;) |
| 02:20.01 | summatusmentis | those people are still alive? |
| 02:20.03 | dhoclone_plan9 | Anyway, so it's a bunch of people with no clue who are also not mentors and are just taking the time to talk to hear themselves speak |
| 02:20.03 | summatusmentis | >_> |
| 02:20.03 | p_l | dhoclone_plan9: I personally think nowadays that glendix has better chances, assuming someone decides to blend together current linux and enable certain blocked plan9-style features (mounts, namespaces, etc.) + change security model to completely different (yes, I'm advocating TOMOYO :D) |
| 02:20.08 | summatusmentis | </troll> |
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| 02:20.22 | dhoclone_plan9 | I've never liked the idea of Glendix. |
| 02:20.28 | dhoclone_plan9 | It's the wrong approach IMO. |
| 02:20.38 | dhoclone_plan9 | #1) It concedes defeat |
| 02:21.00 | ojwb | dhoclone_plan9: yes, i know the history |
| 02:21.01 | dhoclone_plan9 | #2) Part of the reason you need it is because Plan 9 doesn't function well in heterongeneous environments. |
| 02:21.14 | dhoclone_plan9 | Fixing #2 is a better idea, in my eeys |
| 02:21.29 | p_l | dhoclone_plan9: I don't consider it best. While I like plan9's core concepts, many things never meshed well with me, though. OTOH, Linux is still broken by keeping to Unix permission model or making it worse |
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| 02:22.01 | dhoclone_plan9 | *nods* |
| 02:22.19 | dhoclone_plan9 | I've considered forking it a number of times, but there's not a big enough supporting army even if I got everyone to go with me :) |
| 02:22.34 | dhoclone_plan9 | At least I can have a sense of humor about it |
| 02:22.43 | dhoclone_plan9 | I really must go, girlfriend, movies, bed, all are calling |
| 02:22.49 | p_l | TOMOYO actually allows you to implement plan9-style namespaces as it can filter what you can mount where and who can do it in a more fine-grained way than plan9 :) |
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| 02:23.01 | p_l | dhoclone_plan9: go, go, don't let us drag you down :) |
| 02:23.03 | dhoclone_plan9 | p_l: We'll talk more tomorrow I'm sure :) |
| 02:23.09 | dhoclone_plan9 | welterusten |
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| 02:28.10 | Borbus | Is the date 23rd May for begnning coding set in stone? My semester doesn't finish until the 3rd June |
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| 02:28.52 | Sepho | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:29.03 | summatusmentis | not really? but you'll lose a fair amount of time if you wait |
| 02:29.07 | summatusmentis | that said, it happens |
| 02:29.23 | Borbus | I'll also lose my degree if I don't :P |
| 02:29.33 | summatusmentis | well, right |
| 02:29.44 | summatusmentis | it does happen, just make sure your mentoring org knows |
| 02:29.45 | p_l | Borbus: don't remind me... |
| 02:30.02 | warren | It is a competition between the students to be accepted as the Google SoC student in my project. |
| 02:30.09 | warren | So they began work already |
| 02:30.09 | Borbus | When I say my semester ends, I actually have my last exam on that date |
| 02:30.25 | Borbus | So, you know, I can't really be doing a project full time |
| 02:31.12 | summatusmentis | Borbus: like I said, students have done it, but you should talk to your org to make sure it's amenable |
| 02:31.56 | asmeurer | ouch. what school lets you out so late? |
| 02:32.22 | summatusmentis | I think a lot of schools in .eu do it that way |
| 02:32.35 | summatusmentis | and I'm sure other parts of the world too |
| 02:32.36 | Borbus | UEA in the UK.. it's because Easter fell late this year |
| 02:33.11 | p_l | asmeurer: Japan has it worse... :D |
| 02:33.11 | ojwb | the timings don't fit well for some countries |
| 02:33.12 | Borbus | Usually term does end at that time, but exams have actually finished much sooner so we get 2-3 weeks off |
| 02:33.20 | Borbus | But not this year :( |
| 02:33.25 | p_l | I don't remember the exact callendar, but in Japan the term starts ~1st April :D |
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| 02:33.41 | ojwb | just work out when you can work (e.g. some people start coding in earnest in the community bonding period) and include that in your application |
| 02:33.52 | ojwb | the org then know what the situation is |
| 02:34.13 | ojwb | springing suprises like "oh, i can't work for the first 3 weeks" is likely to just mean you get failed |
| 02:34.22 | asmeurer | Google isn't very international minded: someone told me that all of their logs are in Pacific time, and the logs double up every year for daylight savings time |
| 02:34.30 | Borbus | Yeah I was planning to do bug fixes and stuff during the bonding period if I get accepted to one |
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| 02:35.01 | ojwb | to be fair on them, there is no "perfect 3 months" which works everywhere |
| 02:35.06 | ojwb | for GSoC |
| 02:35.22 | Borbus | Yeah.. actually I can work for another month after the end date |
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| 02:37.00 | ojwb | you're welcome to continue to work after the "end" date, but the evaluations are for work to that point |
| 02:38.45 | ojwb | someone told me that if you type google into google, you break the internet |
| 02:39.14 | ojwb | asmeurer: ^ |
| 02:39.21 | Borbus | Yeah.. well I was going to work on free software over summer anyway.. getting paid for it would just be a bonus |
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| 02:39.28 | Borbus | Although having a mentor would be nice too |
| 02:39.46 | ojwb | a lot of projects are happy to provide mentoring outside of gsoc |
| 02:40.08 | ojwb | though few are able to pay you too |
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| 02:42.19 | shikhar | can BSD-licensed code can be incorporated in an apache-licensed project? |
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| 02:42.41 | ojwb | should be able to be |
| 02:42.45 | Borbus | Depends which BSD license |
| 02:42.46 | Landon | shikhar: I don't see why it wouldn't be able to, unless apache license prohibitsit |
| 02:42.49 | Landon | or something silly like that :P |
| 02:42.50 | ojwb | unless they require copyright assignment |
| 02:42.58 | ojwb | that's true - needs to be the new one |
| 02:43.23 | Landon | didn't like the fiddling with licenses part of soc last summer |
| 02:43.47 | Borbus | But I don't think many use the 4 clause license any more |
| 02:43.48 | Landon | of course, it was relatively straightforward since I did the whole thing |
| 02:43.52 | ojwb | and the lesson to learn from this is don't create yet another licence! |
| 02:44.34 | Borbus | GPL3 for everything :) |
| 02:45.08 | Landon | Borbus: ouch :P BSD-likes for everything |
| 02:45.08 | summatusmentis | Landon: yeh |
| 02:45.33 | Borbus | BSDs aren't copyleft though |
| 02:45.48 | Landon | I disagree with copyleft |
| 02:45.49 | ojwb | sometimes that is appropriate |
| 02:46.17 | Landon | it's not like they're taking your ability to use your code away :) |
| 02:46.18 | summatusmentis | licensing as a weapon seems like a bad plan |
| 02:46.31 | summatusmentis | just as a general rule |
| 02:46.32 | Landon | (if $CORP puts your code in their product) |
| 02:46.37 | Borbus | All software should be free software so non-copyleft doesn't make sense |
| 02:46.57 | Landon | I like people to have choice |
| 02:47.09 | Landon | if they want a closed product, so be it |
| 02:47.40 | p_l | Borbus: except that forcing your license on someone doesn't count as "freedom" in my (and not only mine) book |
| 02:48.09 | Borbus | You only force the license on them if they wish to release |
| 02:48.11 | summatusmentis | Borbus: unfortunately, an idealogical stance, if held too strongly, doesn't make a lot of sense in the real world |
| 02:48.23 | Borbus | Anyone can still make personal hacks and never release them |
| 02:48.34 | summatusmentis | for now |
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| 02:48.43 | p_l | Borbus: It's still forcing your decision on someone. |
| 02:48.54 | p_l | shouldn't take psychology and philosophy classes |
| 02:49.04 | p_l | *have taken |
| 02:49.09 | Borbus | Forever, forcing people to release hacks would be very un-free |
| 02:49.12 | Landon | it's why we dislike jehovas witnesses that come aknocking |
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| 02:49.38 | Sepho | buenas noches a todos |
| 02:49.45 | Borbus | So don't use free software |
| 02:49.49 | summatusmentis | but forcing people to release under your license is totally ok? |
| 02:50.02 | Borbus | You can pay programmers to write software for you and do whatever you want with it |
| 02:50.13 | Borbus | That's ultimate freefom for you, but not the community |
| 02:50.28 | Borbus | And it is about every hacker in the end, not each individual one |
| 02:50.40 | p_l | Borbus: That's what socialism told us too (I'm from an ex-commie country actually) |
| 02:51.16 | ojwb | is from an ex-capitalist country |
| 02:51.24 | ojwb | or it will be the way things are going |
| 02:51.35 | p_l | and frankly speaking, MIT license is nearly equivalent to public domain as it's defined in polish law |
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| 02:51.51 | chx | lh: http://twitter.com/dmitrig01/statuses/1391118087 are you *sure* he is not alien? |
| 02:51.52 | summatusmentis | should look into MIT license |
| 02:51.56 | Borbus | X11 license? |
| 02:52.06 | LawnGnome | *hearts* the MIT license. |
| 02:52.06 | p_l | (hint: in many countries your code defaults into public domain after certain amount of time, no matter how you licensed it) |
| 02:52.15 | ojwb | MIT is pretty much the same as new BSD |
| 02:52.22 | Borbus | If you want basically public domain then use beerware |
| 02:52.25 | ojwb | in terms of what it allows and doesn't |
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| 02:52.34 | ojwb | wording isn't the same |
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| 02:52.52 | summatusmentis | hmm |
| 02:52.52 | p_l | ojwb: That's why I have written MIT/BSD3 :) |
| 02:53.04 | summatusmentis | alright, enough licensing talk, I need to go write a proposal |
| 02:53.06 | Borbus | But public domain doesn't ensure that hackers will have the same freedoms in the future |
| 02:53.25 | Landon | do they not have the freedom to use the code? |
| 02:53.47 | Landon | that's really the only freedom that counts for me |
| 02:53.49 | Borbus | Not necessarily, someone could repackage it and make them sign an eula |
| 02:53.52 | p_l | Borbus: GPL takes one of the freedoms already from me, while public domain == WTFPL (the most free license in the world) |
| 02:54.07 | Landon | Borbus: sure, but look at project gutenberg |
| 02:54.13 | p_l | Borbus: And you can take the previous version and do wtf you want with it |
| 02:54.27 | Borbus | Assuming someons still has a copy |
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| 02:55.02 | Borbus | I agree public domain IS ideal, if copyright didn't exist |
| 02:55.04 | p_l | Borbus: The only option for that is when it hasn't been released before, which makes the point moot |
| 02:55.09 | Borbus | Copyleft is meant to "undo" copyright |
| 02:55.24 | Borbus | A lot of people don't belive copyright for software should exist at all |
| 02:55.30 | summatusmentis | but copyright, as a concept, isn't bad |
| 02:55.33 | Borbus | But public domain does not undo copyright |
| 02:55.37 | ojwb | might I suggest that this discussion isn't going to go anywhere useful? |
| 02:55.47 | summatusmentis | the implementation is |
| 02:55.49 | ojwb | because there are multi legitimate view points |
| 02:55.53 | Borbus | Copyright is bad actually.. it wasn't designed for how it is used now |
| 02:55.56 | summatusmentis | ojwb: nope, only mine is right |
| 02:56.00 | p_l | Borbus: Actually, in many countries, the fact that software goes under it means it *has* to be released as public domain after certain amount of time |
| 02:56.19 | Landon | Borbus: sounds like most US laws |
| 02:56.20 | Landon | :) |
| 02:56.20 | summatusmentis | Borbus: that's the point, copyright conceptually isn't bad, the way it's used is |
| 02:56.37 | Borbus | It doesn't make sense when anybody can copy anything freely |
| 02:56.37 | summatusmentis | Landon: well, sure, but Mickey Mouse still hasn't been released |
| 02:56.52 | Landon | you lost me |
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| 02:57.14 | Landon | I was just saying the laws are being bent into wheels |
| 02:57.14 | p_l | Landon: the time of US copyright protection is the time since first appearance of Mickey Mouse + few years |
| 02:57.49 | Borbus | Copyright actually is designed (and written in the US constitution) to benefit the publi |
| 02:57.56 | Borbus | So yes, copyright is meant to be a good thing |
| 02:57.57 | summatusmentis | Landon: technically under copyright things are supposed to be public domain after a while. Whoever owns mickey mouse keeps getting it pushed back |
| 02:58.10 | Borbus | But clearly copyright does not benefit the public any more |
| 02:58.25 | summatusmentis | implementation and policy |
| 02:58.41 | Borbus | The terms for copyright have been increasing, I think it is 70s after the author's death now |
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| 02:58.55 | p_l | Borbus: only in USA. And USA isn't the world :) |
| 02:59.00 | Borbus | s/70s/70 years |
| 02:59.05 | Landon | you cretins do what you want with mickey mouse |
| 02:59.05 | Landon | :P |
| 02:59.23 | Borbus | Yes in the USA.. actually I know more about US copyright law than the UK (where I live) |
| 02:59.50 | Borbus | The UK is very similar though |
| 02:59.50 | Bloodmaker | it's more dominant *shrug* |
| 03:00.01 | p_l | knows mostly polish copyright law, as he was forced to read the whole law |
| 03:00.03 | Borbus | It's because of Wikipedia |
| 03:00.07 | Bloodmaker | or rather the US makes a bigger deal out of it |
| 03:00.26 | Borbus | I know everything I know about licensing and copyright because of wikipedia, and en wikipedia is hosted in the US so.. |
| 03:00.29 | Bloodmaker | actually the majority of wikipedia editors are from britian and the like |
| 03:00.50 | Borbus | Yeah but the fair use claims etc. are all for US law not UL |
| 03:00.55 | Borbus | UK |
| 03:01.09 | Bloodmaker | huh |
| 03:01.10 | p_l | can't wait for our new AGI overlords, as they will not be as stupid as all of us are |
| 03:01.11 | Borbus | I'm not sure if UK even has a fair use clause |
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| 03:01.57 | summatusmentis | p_l: do you really believe that? |
| 03:02.09 | Gofishus | copyright law varies by jurisdiction by jurisdiction |
| 03:02.20 | p_l | summatusmentis: It's not hard to be less stupid than the mass of humans... |
| 03:02.59 | summatusmentis | p_l: granted, but it's pretty easy to be as stupid as the mass of humans too |
| 03:03.33 | p_l | also, AGIs probably will do *long term* planning. Something democracies seem inherently incapable, with few exceptions |
| 03:03.33 | Borbus | http://www.dklevine.com/general/intellectual/againstfinal.htm |
| 03:03.36 | Bloodmaker | @p_l, not racist comment, but if you exclude the street-loving gangsters, the overall stupidity decreases |
| 03:03.42 | Bloodmaker | dunno how much |
| 03:03.54 | Borbus | This is quite an interesting site by two professors saying that copyright and patents hsould be abolished |
| 03:03.58 | Borbus | And I agree |
| 03:04.19 | summatusmentis | I don't |
| 03:04.21 | summatusmentis | reformed, yes |
| 03:04.23 | Bloodmaker | copyright and patents should never be abolished or removed from system |
| 03:04.27 | summatusmentis | revamped, yes |
| 03:04.35 | summatusmentis | completely re-done, yes |
| 03:04.38 | Bloodmaker | it's like saying your ownership on your house should be abolished |
| 03:04.40 | summatusmentis | abolished, no |
| 03:04.41 | Landon | I agree with the whole 14yr +14yr extension, but not gone completely |
| 03:05.07 | Borbus | I do not like confusing copyrightable thigns with property |
| 03:05.19 | Bloodmaker | so you don't like it |
| 03:05.30 | Bloodmaker | oh, nvm |
| 03:05.35 | Bloodmaker | gah, read wrong |
| 03:05.49 | p_l | Bloodmaker: Where I lived, stupidity of muggers didn't make any change on the direction of the country. Those who actually did make a change, were on the street because they didn't fit, not because they were stupid |
| 03:05.50 | loupgaroublond | Bloodmaker, i would argue to abolish ownership too |
| 03:05.50 | Borbus | If I invent an algorithm, I don't think me keeping that secret is like owning a house |
| 03:06.10 | Bloodmaker | @borbus: i'm simply moving the application of said thing to a different situation |
| 03:06.13 | Ori_B | Borbus: if you patent an algorithm, by definition it's not a secret. |
| 03:06.20 | Bloodmaker | xD |
| 03:06.36 | Borbus | As good as |
| 03:06.39 | loupgaroublond | Borbus, i think you're mixing up trade secrets |
| 03:06.41 | Borbus | Because nobody can use it |
| 03:06.55 | p_l | and in few places filing a patent for algorithm will give you a "math is not patentable" response :) |
| 03:06.57 | Ori_B | now, if you write an open source program, do you think that other people should be allowed to take it and close-source it, and redistribute it withut attribution? |
| 03:07.27 | Borbus | Ori_B: no, I was saying earlier that I support copyleft |
| 03:07.33 | Ori_B | because that's what removing copyright makes legal. |
| 03:07.35 | Bloodmaker | @p_l: the majority of people in the USA that hang out on the street are gangsters, drug addicts, and overall idiots. I'm sorry if it isn't so about your country |
| 03:07.45 | Borbus | Because copyleft is the best thing anyone has come up with to "undo" copyright |
| 03:07.46 | Ori_B | Borbus: you said that copyright should be abolished. |
| 03:08.01 | p_l | Ori_B: That's why I use MIT/BSD - it requires attribution (I really liked BSD4, actually, as it forced public attribution) |
| 03:08.04 | Ori_B | copyright is nothing more than a way of saying what other people are allowed to do with information you produce. |
| 03:08.06 | Bloodmaker | copyleft? you just pull that one out of your ass? |
| 03:08.18 | Ori_B | Bloodmaker: copyleft is a recognized term. |
| 03:08.29 | Borbus | Not me.. someone wise did long ago |
| 03:08.33 | Ori_B | it's just copyright where the requirement is to keep it public |
| 03:08.33 | Bloodmaker | not to the almighty brain of mine! |
| 03:08.44 | Ori_B | instead of private like most copyrights require. |
| 03:08.45 | p_l | Bloodmaker: no, that's what RMS created when he got busted for copying Symbolics code to LMI without attribution... :P |
| 03:09.06 | Borbus | Ori_B: ideally free software would be public domain and there would be no copyright |
| 03:09.06 | Bloodmaker | xD |
| 03:09.25 | Borbus | But, since there *is* copyright, copyleft is the best we can do to remove copyright |
| 03:09.25 | Bloodmaker | borbus: that's a load |
| 03:09.32 | Ori_B | Borbus: in other words, it would be perfectly alright to take it, close it up, and not attribute anyone. |
| 03:09.38 | Ori_B | that's what public domain means. |
| 03:09.54 | Borbus | Yeah I know |
| 03:10.03 | p_l | guesses that's why polish legal system doesn't have US-style copyright |
| 03:10.04 | loupgaroublond | that's also what the bsd license gets you if you don't require attribution |
| 03:10.11 | Borbus | Attribution is only for ego stroking |
| 03:10.17 | p_l | Borbus: not only |
| 03:10.36 | Bloodmaker | votes CC =) |
| 03:10.52 | p_l | Borbus: If you want public domain and no "ego stroking", go medieval and never write who wrote the code :) |
| 03:11.09 | loupgaroublond | but then this is what the GPL is good for, making sure it can't just be locked up closed source,but not requiring full attribution |
| 03:11.18 | *** join/#gsoc gwp (n=gwpslp@pool-71-116-109-83.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 03:11.25 | Ori_B | Borbus: more or less, I have no problem telling other people what to do with my code. |
| 03:12.15 | Bloodmaker | /chat:dead |
| 03:12.16 | Ori_B | and (this will probably get me flamed) I don't have any issues with software patents above and beyond the issues I have with patents for everything else. |
| 03:12.20 | Bloodmaker | ^lol |
| 03:12.35 | Borbus | Ori_B: so you think all patents are bad? |
| 03:12.37 | p_l | Well, my personal policy for what I create is a combination of "proprietary" and MIT license |
| 03:12.42 | Ori_B | Borbus: no; just the system around them. |
| 03:12.50 | Ori_B | for one, they last way too long. |
| 03:12.51 | p_l | (now that p-word will get me flamed) |
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| 03:12.57 | Borbus | I don't really know much about patents in general |
| 03:13.15 | ojwb | wonders how many days this will last |
| 03:13.16 | Borbus | But software patents are very wrong |
| 03:13.26 | Landon | p_l: keep your personal life out of this :) |
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| 03:13.54 | p_l | Landon: I couldn't resist, I love pyrotechnics |
| 03:14.00 | Ori_B | Borbus: why is describing how to, say, position molecules on a substrate inherently different from describing how you calculate the best places to position them? |
| 03:14.05 | Borbus | I share the view of the great Donald Knuth in regards to patents |
| 03:15.11 | chx | [20:09] <p_l> Bloodmaker: no, that's what RMS created when he got busted for copying Symbolics code to LMI without attribution... :P <= any reading to base that claim? |
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| 03:15.23 | Borbus | Ori_B: well it's because programmers can easily implement patenets algorithms without even knowing |
| 03:15.30 | Borbus | They can even come up with them independantly |
| 03:15.37 | Ori_B | Borbus: and so can people creating physical devices. |
| 03:15.45 | Borbus | I don't know about chemical synthesis to know if the same thing is possible |
| 03:15.56 | p_l | chx: I doubt I'll be able to produce real-world citations, but AFAIK that was the official note given by Symbolics when they changed the licensing terms for Genera code to universities |
| 03:15.56 | Ori_B | Alexander Graham-Bell is the inventor of the telephone because he got to the patent office several hours earlier. |
| 03:16.02 | Bloodmaker | quick question: is cable usually run underground or on the pole? just in general (i wanna know if mine's gonna go out, lol) |
| 03:16.17 | ojwb | can be either |
| 03:16.30 | p_l | Bloodmaker: Depends what cable, really |
| 03:16.31 | Borbus | Fibre optics is always ground |
| 03:16.35 | Borbus | But copper can be either |
| 03:16.46 | Ori_B | Borbus: Elisha Gray was a couple of hours late. |
| 03:16.47 | Bloodmaker | D= now borbus, don't go making me jealous |
| 03:16.57 | Ori_B | both of them invented the same thing though. |
| 03:17.05 | Borbus | Bloodmaker: lol don't worry, I only have above ground copper to my house |
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| 03:17.24 | Borbus | Ori_B: yeah well, I think I do disagree with patents in general |
| 03:17.46 | Borbus | I just haven't studied them enough outside of software to justify that |
| 03:18.18 | Ori_B | I think that patents should last long enough for the original inventor to be first to market. |
| 03:18.22 | Borbus | The real bad thing about patents if there is just too many of them to check, and they are written in legal-speak |
| 03:18.24 | Ori_B | so perhaps 3 or 4 years |
| 03:18.28 | ojwb | the idea that you can violate them by independently thinking up an idea seems rather problematic to me |
| 03:18.33 | Borbus | s/if/is that |
| 03:18.41 | ojwb | particularly as there are often ideas whose "time has come" |
| 03:18.46 | Ori_B | but not long enough to just sit on the patent and charge people royalties. |
| 03:19.07 | Borbus | ojwb: yeah.. and your software could be in production long before somebody realises |
| 03:19.22 | ojwb | or perhaps worse, my device |
| 03:19.38 | p_l | chx: apparently RMS states the same facts, but with different interpretations. I don't give a damn about interpretations, though. Long time ago happen it did... |
| 03:19.46 | Ori_B | but either way, the problems with patents are the same with software as with anything else. |
| 03:19.49 | ojwb | changing a software package to remove offending algorithms is likely easier and cheaper than retooling a production line |
| 03:19.49 | Borbus | And also big companies like IBM use patents as a kind of trading device in a kind of "you don't sue us, we won't sue you" kind of thing |
| 03:19.57 | chx | p_l: meh, it was less than 30 years ago :p |
| 03:20.23 | Borbus | ojwb: well that depends, look at GIF, it was a de-facto standard |
| 03:20.25 | p_l | chx: in computer world that's a lot |
| 03:20.42 | Borbus | PNG is maybe just as ubiquitous as GIF was back then |
| 03:20.47 | p_l | now if someone managed to get Genera code into public domain, like most good open source LISP systems... |
| 03:20.53 | Bloodmaker | LISP? |
| 03:20.58 | Bloodmaker | nvm i haz google xD |
| 03:21.03 | p_l | ... |
| 03:21.09 | Bloodmaker | yah, sry |
| 03:21.14 | p_l | goes to drink something after that question ^^; |
| 03:21.15 | Ori_B | ...wait, seriously, a programmer that doesn't know of lisp? |
| 03:21.19 | LawnGnome | If you love parentheses, you'll love LISP. |
| 03:21.24 | Ori_B | joins p_l |
| 03:21.27 | Borbus | is still learning common lisp |
| 03:21.27 | Bloodmaker | i forget things man |
| 03:21.35 | summatusmentis | meh |
| 03:21.51 | LawnGnome | will have a drink too. Lunchtime on a Thursday isn't too early to start drinking for the weekend, right? |
| 03:22.02 | summatusmentis | never used lisp, although I have used scheme and it was not fun |
| 03:22.03 | Shadow_Master | just don't forget C next time :P |
| 03:22.37 | Borbus | Oh and the other bad thing about patents is that they cost a lot of money.. too expensive for most people |
| 03:22.48 | Ori_B | yes, that too. |
| 03:22.58 | Borbus | So really they don't benefit individuals |
| 03:22.59 | Upthorn | (programming(in(lisp(taught(me(how(to(count(parentheses))))))))) |
| 03:23.01 | Ori_B | and there should be an open review process |
| 03:23.18 | Borbus | emacs counts parantheses for me :) |
| 03:23.21 | Landon | Upthorn: or get a realtext editor! |
| 03:23.35 | Upthorn | actually I've never coded in lisp |
| 03:23.40 | Ori_B | the patent process is broken, but the idea of "Let inventors be first to market so that they can stay profitable" isn't a bad idea. |
| 03:23.43 | Upthorn | just thought I'd propogate the old joke |
| 03:23.49 | Gofishus | remember - patents for software doesn't patent the code you write or the algorithm, its the idea behind it |
| 03:24.15 | Borbus | Ori_B: sure, but clearly patents do not provide any benefit to the poor broke genius |
| 03:24.25 | Bloodmaker | @upthorn: notepad2 highlights them for me =D |
| 03:25.02 | Ori_B | Borbus: as I said, the system is broken. not the concept. |
| 03:25.03 | Borbus | They'd have to look for angel investment or something to get the patent filed.. and in fact most investors won't even consider without a patent pending |
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| 03:25.34 | Borbus | And even if they do then the investor is benefitting not the inventor |
| 03:25.50 | Upthorn | http://bash.org/?741856 is another version, probably better than my own |
| 03:26.19 | Bloodmaker | xD |
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| 03:28.06 | Borbus | Ori_B: http://www.pluto.it/files/meeting1999/atti/no-patents/brevetti/docs/knuth_letter_en.html <-- here is the letter by Knuth regarding patents |
| 03:28.32 | Borbus | It's a must read just ebcaues it's Knuth of cours |
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| 03:31.52 | Bloodmaker | i shall patent the HTML tag <div> ! |
| 03:32.29 | p_l | finds lack of sugar in kitchen outrageous |
| 03:32.30 | Landon | I'll patent <blink> ! |
| 03:32.32 | Landon | and make millions |
| 03:32.33 | Landon | :D |
| 03:32.41 | Landon | p_l: want some jelly beans? |
| 03:33.24 | p_l | no, can't really take jelly. OTOH, when I have access to sugar, my tea/coffee is considered an energy drink... :P |
| 03:33.44 | Landon | well I've got 20+ pounds |
| 03:33.45 | Landon | :( |
| 03:33.52 | p_l | heh |
| 03:34.07 | Landon | I thought it'd be cool! but now I'm just sick of htem |
| 03:34.11 | p_l | btw, anyone here planning to attend HAR2009? |
| 03:34.19 | milki | 20+ lbs of sugar? |
| 03:34.19 | Landon | and it seems certain (horrible)flavors have high defect rates |
| 03:34.25 | Landon | milki: of jelly beans! |
| 03:34.32 | milki | ah |
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| 03:35.13 | p_l | usually buys sugar in 2 or 4 kg packs |
| 03:35.31 | Landon | dislikes this data structures class |
| 03:35.34 | r0bby | I use splenda |
| 03:35.46 | Landon | doing a lab right now, it's mostly fighting with C# to do what I want |
| 03:35.57 | r0bby | <blink>Newsflash: Landon is evil</blink> |
| 03:35.58 | Landon | ntohing to do with data structures other than one of the types we use is a huffman tree |
| 03:36.14 | Borbus | C#.. yuck |
| 03:36.16 | r0bby | <marquee>Landon rocks</marquee> |
| 03:36.21 | p_l | Landon: At least you got C#. All I got is Java |
| 03:36.30 | r0bby | (I remember a tag like that from my early HTML days |
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| 03:36.40 | Landon | if it was in python I'd actually be getting somewhere on this project |
| 03:36.41 | Borbus | Java is better than C# |
| 03:36.42 | Landon | :( |
| 03:36.45 | r0bby | is drinking coffee |
| 03:36.48 | Landon | and learning about data structures |
| 03:36.54 | r0bby | at 11something at night |
| 03:36.57 | Landon | not how to throw up message boxes in a GUI |
| 03:37.03 | Borbus | You need to read a book to learn about data structure |
| 03:37.05 | p_l | r0bby: please don't invoke evil marquee spirit |
| 03:37.06 | r0bby | since i'm fell asleep and have a paper to write |
| 03:37.09 | Ori_B | Landon: ....you do GUI stuff? :( |
| 03:37.12 | Ori_B | that sucks. |
| 03:37.13 | Borbus | Knuth for example :P |
| 03:37.21 | Landon | Ori_B: yeah :( no CLI stuff |
| 03:37.23 | r0bby | <marquee> p_l too late </marquee> |
| 03:37.28 | Landon | even though it'd make almost infinitely more sense |
| 03:37.47 | Ori_B | Landon: yeah.. for learning algorithms, a GUI is simply not needed. |
| 03:37.52 | Borbus | GUIs suck so much.. but if I have to I use Qt |
| 03:38.01 | r0bby | GUIs make baby jesus cry |
| 03:38.05 | Ori_B | and for doing user interfaces, you have no excuse not to use some drag-and-drop GUI designer |
| 03:38.11 | Ori_B | like Glade or whatnot |
| 03:38.12 | r0bby | .... Ori_B |
| 03:38.15 | Landon | we're using visual studio |
| 03:38.17 | r0bby | un-necessary |
| 03:38.27 | r0bby | learn the way the layouts work |
| 03:38.28 | Landon | but it's still completely unnecessary |
| 03:38.30 | Borbus | Use a real text editor |
| 03:38.33 | r0bby | ex) Java Swing is piss easy |
| 03:38.40 | Borbus | Get emacs and be happy |
| 03:38.55 | Borbus | Qt is as easy as Swing and much better |
| 03:38.56 | Ori_B | r0bby: it's not worth the time. I don't care about attaching events by hand. |
| 03:39.09 | Landon | Borbus: I have a book, but I haven't had much time to read through it |
| 03:39.11 | Borbus | And you get to use something that isn't Java, like C++ |
| 03:39.13 | Borbus | Or python |
| 03:39.19 | r0bby | WinForms is like java swing in a way :) |
| 03:39.29 | Landon | (granted it's also as old as the hills, but data structures haven't really changed in 30 years :P) |
| 03:39.33 | p_l | r0bby: you made me feel like writing a gui |
| 03:39.46 | r0bby | p_l: I should be shot |
| 03:39.54 | r0bby | but after i have another cup of joe |
| 03:39.57 | Borbus | Landon: well the best book is probably Knuth and that's donkeys years old |
| 03:39.59 | r0bby | this shit didn't kick in yet |
| 03:40.34 | Landon | got a book by Wirth after seeing a recommendation in Beautiful Code |
| 03:40.38 | p_l | r0bby: Heh, I just set up my coffee maker (gotta test this "bigger amount of coffeine" brand :)) |
| 03:40.51 | *** part/#gsoc KNY (n=KNY@leonidas.kickersny.com) |
| 03:41.24 | Gofishus | everyone should learn design patterns by GoF |
| 03:41.41 | r0bby | okkkkkkk |
| 03:41.51 | p_l | of which ~16 doesn't exist and most of the rest are errors ;-) |
| 03:41.58 | r0bby | <marquee> is supported in firefox 3 |
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| 03:42.23 | Borbus | Design patterns and algorithms are different things though |
| 03:42.31 | Borbus | Data structures fall under algorithms really |
| 03:42.39 | p_l | now, where I had this paper, "Objects have failed..." |
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| 03:43.11 | Gofishus | yeah algorithm design thats different |
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| 03:43.24 | Gofishus | the O(n) notation |
| 03:43.31 | r0bby | oh my god and bliqnk too |
| 03:43.32 | r0bby | :( |
| 03:43.33 | Borbus | Having said that I haven't read GoF |
| 03:43.55 | Borbus | I'll add it to my (very long) reading list |
| 03:44.12 | p_l | uses mostly a language that makes "design pattern" a bug |
| 03:44.34 | Gofishus | when you have time =) |
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| 03:45.31 | p_l | no, really, 16 of 23 design patterns don't exist and the rest is overcomplicating stuff that is already available |
| 03:46.20 | r0bby | p_l: what lang |
| 03:46.37 | ojwb | polish I think |
| 03:46.50 | p_l | r0bby: Common Lisp :P |
| 03:47.06 | r0bby | ((((((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))(((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))))) |
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| 03:47.21 | Gofishus | Lisp isn't an object oriented language |
| 03:47.29 | r0bby | it can be |
| 03:47.32 | r0bby | clojure ;) |
| 03:47.34 | Dremth | could someone explain how this mentor thing works? |
| 03:47.38 | p_l | Gofishus: Common Lisp is |
| 03:48.00 | r0bby | Dremth: sure, a mentor works with you one on one and critiques your code as you go along with your project |
| 03:48.48 | Gofishus | ah, well Lisp in general wasn't designed to take advantage of those patterns |
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| 03:49.24 | p_l | Gofishus: no, it's the other way around. If you see a design pattern-like code, it means you do something wrong :) |
| 03:49.33 | p_l | (in case of Lisp) |
| 03:50.25 | p_l | they are either invisible or so simple you can't call it a pattern |
| 03:50.36 | kumarabhi | hey people , do u know of any proj of any org wherein a lot of algorithms knowledge is involved and u have to work on finding good alogrithms |
| 03:50.38 | kumarabhi | ? |
| 03:51.09 | Landon | I think there might have been a few of those in gcc |
| 03:53.09 | Gofishus | alot of these projects are done in C++, unfortunately a language that my school does not teach =( |
| 03:53.10 | kumarabhi | gcc? is it? |
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| 03:55.48 | p_l | http://www.foldr.org/~michaelw/emacs/color-box.png <--- I don't see any parentheses in that lisp code :> |
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| 04:00.14 | dumbdude1 | hi |
| 04:00.28 | dumbdude1 | i need help with applying for gsoc program |
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| 04:02.52 | *** join/#gsoc mmaruseacph2 (n=mihai@p16.eregie.pub.ro) |
| 04:02.56 | ojwb | !advice |
| 04:02.57 | socinfo | "advice" is http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code/wiki/AdviceforStudents for students, http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code/wiki/AdviceforMentors for mentors |
| 04:03.11 | dumbdude1 | any requirement? |
| 04:03.13 | ojwb | dumbdude1: read that ^^ - it's very useful |
| 04:03.26 | *** join/#gsoc pygi (n=pygi@193.198.163.148) |
| 04:03.30 | dumbdude1 | i'm not a mentor |
| 04:03.33 | dumbdude1 | i'm just a student |
| 04:03.45 | ojwb | then use the first link... |
| 04:07.07 | dumbdude1 | thanks |
| 04:07.13 | dumbdude1 | any mentors here? |
| 04:08.42 | homunq | !anyone |
| 04:08.43 | socinfo | "anyone" is Instead of looking for mentors from specific projects here, you will likely get much better results by speaking to that mentoring organization themselves. You can find the org's contact info by clicking on their name in the list at: http://socghop.appspot.com/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2009 |
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| 04:09.42 | dumbdude1 | do mentor and student need to be in the same city in order to be eligible? |
| 04:10.07 | homunq | !faq |
| 04:10.08 | socinfo | "faq" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/faqs |
| 04:10.30 | homunq | answer: no. But before you ask another question, read that. |
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| 04:30.38 | p_l | ... well, it's 0429 UTC, I guess it's time to start working on the project that has deadline tommorrow... |
| 04:31.15 | dumbdude1 | p_l?? |
| 04:31.53 | Ryan52 | poor p_l |
| 04:32.13 | p_l | dumbdude1: the joys of team assignments in uni, with most people having little knowledge of programming and even less about collaboration methods |
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| 04:34.48 | p_l | considers paying a visit to BlueJ developers... with a clue-by-four |
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| 04:37.01 | p_l | !orgbycat |
| 04:37.01 | socinfo | "orgbycat" is 2009 orgs list by category: http://delicious.com/gsoc2009/bundle:Categories (note: work in progress) |
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| 04:40.03 | Ori_B | p_l: I had good luck convincing a teammate to use git :) |
| 04:40.14 | dhoss | git<3 |
| 04:40.44 | Bloodmaker | i hate git |
| 04:40.47 | Ori_B | is somewhat surprised that he's in 3rd year computer science and still so unconfident with coding... :( |
| 04:40.50 | p_l | Ori_B: I tried to introduce Mercurial, as it has better integration with NetBeans (which was preinstalled on their uni-supplied laptops) |
| 04:40.57 | Bloodmaker | rather the lack of support for it on win systems |
| 04:41.17 | Ori_B | Bloodmaker: heh. msysgit seems to work reasonably for the few times I needed it |
| 04:41.18 | dumbdude1 | any mentors here who are looking for students? |
| 04:41.21 | *** join/#gsoc amit8-88 (n=amit8-88@unaffiliated/amit8-88) |
| 04:41.31 | Ori_B | but I haven't really been on a windows machine since last summer at RIM |
| 04:41.33 | Ori_B | and they used Perforce |
| 04:41.41 | dumbdude1 | p_l and me are both students..please let's us know |
| 04:42.06 | Ori_B | (...damn it, why am I even taking engineering physics... I should be in compsci with the way my summer jobs are going...) |
| 04:42.10 | p_l | dumbdude1: Check the damned org list, please. I'm already in touch with two~three orgs :P |
| 04:42.13 | Bloodmaker | i can't get any to work actually. I tried setting my chyrp installation up, it never would work |
| 04:42.16 | Bloodmaker | @ ori_b |
| 04:42.43 | p_l | Ori_B: What were you doing at RIM, if your NDA doesn't forbid you from speaking? :) |
| 04:43.11 | Ori_B | Bloodmaker: http://code.google.com/p/msysgit/ <-- that's the one that I tried, and it worked. |
| 04:43.32 | p_l | ... everything but not MSYS... |
| 04:43.36 | p_l | *shivers* |
| 04:43.37 | Ori_B | p_l: Embedded OS work for a not-a-phone device. |
| 04:44.34 | Ori_B | p_l: more or less, finger print scanner driver stuff, and bringing up their OS on new hardware (mostly a matter of finding the right magic constants to make the existing drivers work) |
| 04:44.51 | p_l | nice |
| 04:46.18 | p_l | was a sysadmin/cable monkey last summer |
| 04:46.39 | Ori_B | heh |
| 04:46.47 | summatusmentis | anyone around from apertium? |
| 04:46.51 | Ori_B | has to finish filling out forms for this summer job |
| 04:47.04 | p_l | :D |
| 04:47.27 | Ori_B | Bell Labs, Plan 9 work :D |
| 04:47.37 | Ori_B | is excited. |
| 04:48.14 | p_l | Ori_B: Nice, what project? :) |
| 04:48.34 | Ori_B | p_l: not entirely decided, but hopefully the Blue Gene port |
| 04:48.42 | acr | anyone here from osuosl? |
| 04:48.48 | ojwb | !anyone |
| 04:48.48 | socinfo | "anyone" is Instead of looking for mentors from specific projects here, you will likely get much better results by speaking to that mentoring organization themselves. You can find the org's contact info by clicking on their name in the list at: http://socghop.appspot.com/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2009 |
| 04:48.50 | summatusmentis | Ori_B: this is internship, not gsoc |
| 04:48.54 | summatusmentis | ? |
| 04:49.00 | Ori_B | summatusmentis: correct. |
| 04:49.04 | p_l | Ori_B: ... I envy you |
| 04:49.14 | p_l | *loves* big iron |
| 04:49.39 | p_l | but the notion of spending time in USA is scary |
| 04:49.53 | Ori_B | p_l: eh, it's not that bad. |
| 04:50.08 | Ori_B | plus, even if it is, it's only a 4 month position |
| 04:50.16 | Ori_B | (I guess, unless I try to get it extended...) |
| 04:51.46 | summatusmentis | is the US really that bad, from an international standpoint/ |
| 04:51.48 | summatusmentis | ? |
| 04:52.07 | p_l | summatusmentis: Depends how much you hear about various laws in US |
| 04:52.18 | summatusmentis | granted |
| 04:52.37 | Ori_B | summatusmentis: not really. but the work visa stuff is a pain |
| 04:52.57 | Ori_B | and I'm Canadian; I can only imagine how much more annoying it is if you're -- god forbid -- from the middle east or something |
| 04:52.59 | summatusmentis | I live here, and some of the laws scare me, but I don't feel like it's bad, overall |
| 04:53.06 | p_l | which lately for me meant that no week has passed without adding another "evidence" to my list of "why should I keep away from USA" |
| 04:53.08 | summatusmentis | oh, work visas sure |
| 04:53.19 | Landon | I think some of the going-ons intheUK scare me a bit more |
| 04:53.33 | p_l | sure, here is not best as well |
| 04:53.42 | summatusmentis | the whole cctv thing Landon ? |
| 04:53.54 | p_l | But this is one of the cases where EU law had helped a little... |
| 04:54.12 | p_l | now if only "Three Strikes" Sarkozy infringed on copyright twice more... |
| 04:54.21 | Ori_B | anyways, I'm off to bed |
| 04:54.33 | Ori_B | good night, and good luck with your applications :) |
| 04:54.34 | summatusmentis | sleep well |
| 04:54.52 | p_l | Ori_B: Night :) |
| 04:55.00 | p_l | has a sleepless night |
| 04:55.15 | summatusmentis | will be up for an hour at least |
| 04:55.40 | orirawlings | @Ori_B do you know how rare it is that i find somebody with the same name as me? |
| 04:56.55 | Ori_B | orirawlings: since this is probably the first time I've seen someone with the same name as me, I'd assume it's near the same frequency for you? |
| 04:56.58 | Ori_B | :P |
| 04:57.22 | orirawlings | well, i was once invited to a group on facebook for people named ori |
| 04:57.28 | ojwb | perhaps you're the same person, and one of you is from the future |
| 04:57.35 | orirawlings | i was surprised how many members there wer |
| 04:57.47 | orirawlings | my mind just exploded |
| 04:57.55 | summatusmentis | where is the name from, originally? |
| 04:58.11 | p_l | ... I just thought about what people called "Orly" has :P |
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| 04:58.28 | summatusmentis | wiki says hebrew |
| 04:58.36 | orirawlings | i tend to get a different story everytime i ask my parents |
| 04:58.53 | orirawlings | i've heard it has both hebrew and french origins |
| 04:59.14 | Ori_B | Hebrew, in my case. |
| 04:59.25 | summatusmentis | well, there's a mountain in the pyrenees called Orhy |
| 04:59.33 | orirawlings | lots of people tend to ask me if i'm jewish |
| 04:59.45 | summatusmentis | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pic_d%27Orhy |
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| 05:05.54 | p_l | hahahaha. I just found my friends old pics concerning "Algorithms and Data Structures" lecture on tuesday 9.45 am, which he made I think on monday night ;> |
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| 05:14.40 | dumbdude1 | looking for mentor here ... |
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| 05:15.15 | ojwb | this is not the place to look |
| 05:15.38 | ojwb | try the channels or lists of the org you're interested in |
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| 05:18.53 | dumbdude1 | i mailed 20 of them already |
| 05:19.31 | ojwb | 20?! |
| 05:19.32 | ojwb | wow |
| 05:19.36 | glaksmono | heh? |
| 05:19.41 | glaksmono | 20 of them..?? |
| 05:19.44 | glaksmono | yay.. |
| 05:20.01 | glaksmono | HAI EVERYONE!!! |
| 05:20.05 | AlekSi | wow |
| 05:20.08 | ojwb | 20 applications is a sanity limit, not a target |
| 05:20.24 | dumbdude1 | see you guys tmr |
| 05:20.28 | dumbdude1 | it's 1:17am |
| 05:20.30 | dumbdude1 | good night |
| 05:21.16 | AlekSi | heh |
| 05:21.20 | AlekSi | good morning :) |
| 05:21.30 | Upthorn | has made only one application this year |
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| 05:30.55 | summatusmentis | Upthorn: I'm only submitting one |
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| 05:33.15 | amar | i won't submit one.. i will try to join one that suits me best |
| 05:33.45 | ojwb | um, that's not how it works |
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| 06:03.41 | HesH | Hi. Can anyone help me with the basic timeline as to when the summer of code will be? I have semester exams coming by, that is why. |
| 06:03.59 | allen | !timeline |
| 06:03.59 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/timeline |
| 06:04.07 | Constitution | political conversations always ping me :( |
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| 06:04.28 | p_l | LOL |
| 06:04.49 | HesH | thank you |
| 06:05.41 | HesH | So.. Everything will be over by August 25!! |
| 06:06.08 | HesH | gr8.. thank you.. |
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| 06:07.42 | davidL | is there a character limit on the content portion of the proposal? |
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| 06:30.05 | summatusmentis | just as affirmation to my counting, because it's 1:30am, students have roughly 12 weeks of coding time right? |
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| 06:41.45 | ojwb | yes |
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| 06:43.01 | MaNI | well unless they start before they get accepted |
| 06:43.33 | ojwb | there's the "community bonding period" too |
| 06:43.36 | ojwb | that's after acceptance |
| 06:44.10 | summatusmentis | well right, I knew that |
| 06:44.22 | summatusmentis | I just wanted to make sure I'd counted right |
| 06:44.37 | summatusmentis | I suppose I can build 'community bonding period' into my timeline though |
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| 06:52.12 | summatusmentis | !faq |
| 06:52.13 | socinfo | "faq" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/faqs |
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| 06:53.19 | summatusmentis | is there a max # of chars for the applcation section? |
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| 06:54.04 | ojwb | not aware of one |
| 06:54.15 | summatusmentis | there was last year, that's why I ask |
| 06:54.44 | ojwb | #melange will know for sure |
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| 06:58.16 | junkman | regarding templates of organisations.......does every point in template need to b mentioned (if ne1 doent make sense with u then)? |
| 06:58.26 | junkman | mentioned i mean written in app |
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| 07:01.21 | junkman | ne1 |
| 07:01.26 | ojwb | what? |
| 07:01.37 | ojwb | northeast? |
| 07:01.38 | junkman | the ques 1 asked |
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| 07:02.13 | junkman | regarding templates of app. by orgz |
| 07:02.26 | ojwb | not totally sure I understand, but if they ask a question which isn't relevant, obviously you can't answer it |
| 07:02.39 | ojwb | or can only write "not applicable" |
| 07:02.54 | junkman | okzzz..... |
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| 07:09.10 | x58 | May a make a suggestion for those of you writing applications, spell out full words. s/u/you/ would be a good start. ne1 would become anyone. |
| 07:09.14 | x58 | It shows some professionalism. |
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| 07:11.10 | arunmathew88 | I searched through the Ideas list and found one idea suitable for me. What should I do next? |
| 07:11.51 | x58 | arunmathew88: You should check to see if that organisation has a guideline set on how to apply (templates mostly) |
| 07:11.55 | x58 | and then apply. |
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| 07:12.39 | scorche | arunmathew88: go talk to the org about it |
| 07:13.17 | arunmathew88 | x58: The GSoC User guide says we should communicate with the probable mentor before applying for better results na? |
| 07:14.17 | arunmathew88 | x58: *****before applying, for better results, na? |
| 07:14.44 | x58 | Follow the guidelines |
| 07:14.46 | scorche | points at his response |
| 07:14.51 | x58 | see if you are a good fit with the mentor. |
| 07:15.42 | x58 | My first answer still fits within that range. See if the organisation has anything set in terms of what you need to do. |
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| 07:17.28 | arunmathew88 | where can i find it. The ideas page in not that informative,, |
| 07:18.06 | arunmathew88 | Is "Submit your Student Proposal" the link to apply for an idea??? |
| 07:19.06 | arunmathew88 | will it work for an already listed idea? or is it for fresh ideas?? |
| 07:21.29 | scorche | the application/proposal is typically much more than just a simple idea...as x58 said, orgs typically have templates of a proper application and will usually ask for such things as an abstract, detailed description, timeline, etc |
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| 07:25.41 | arunmathew88 | i understood that we have to apply in organisation's template,, What i didnt get is,, should we submit abstract and all, for an idea that is already listed in the organisation's ideas list, and is the questions asked on clicking "Submit your Student Proposal" the template for application?? |
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| 07:28.22 | arunmathew88 | scorche: how do i talk to organization? I am connected to their irc channel noone is responding, |
| 07:28.48 | scorche | wait until they do...alternatively, you could check for mailing lists, etc |
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| 07:29.07 | arunmathew88 | k |
| 07:29.27 | arunmathew88 | what about my prev qs? |
| 07:30.21 | arunmathew88 | anyways,, |
| 07:30.41 | scorche | you dont have to apply for an idea on an org's list, however if you have your own idea, definitely talk to the org first...and those questions likely are part of the template |
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| 07:35.55 | arunmathew88 | ok,, i dont have a new idea,,, say i want to work on an idea y listed in organisation x's ideas list. |
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| 07:36.31 | arunmathew88 | So i should try contacting organization x and the proposed mentor for the idea z |
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| 07:37.30 | arunmathew88 | now after that what should i do at last, so that google tried mapping me with mentor (if accepted)...? |
| 07:37.52 | scorche | you really should read this... |
| 07:37.53 | scorche | !faq |
| 07:37.53 | socinfo | "faq" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/faqs |
| 07:37.56 | arunmathew88 | my communication with organization and mentor is unknown to GSoC webpage na? |
| 07:38.05 | xiaohui | hi, can the proposal handed in be modified again? |
| 07:38.22 | arunmathew88 | ok lemme read,, |
| 07:38.26 | arunmathew88 | Thank you so much scorche & x58 |
| 07:38.32 | arunmathew88 | I ll get back soon |
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| 07:46.24 | x58 | arunmathew88: No thanks, don't come back soon. Please take the time to read the various websites that exist out there. |
| 07:46.30 | x58 | xiaohui: Yes. |
| 07:46.52 | xiaohui | thank you x58 |
| 07:48.09 | arunmathew88 | :) Sorry for any trouble. I didn't mean it... |
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| 07:48.49 | x58 | arunmathew88: You are asking basic questions. |
| 07:50.12 | arunmathew88 | i understood now,, I had just ran through the guide,,, I missed the essential parts. |
| 07:50.28 | x58 | Cool. |
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| 08:06.25 | xiaohui | I cannot hand in the proposal because of server error |
| 08:07.07 | xiaohui | does it limit the number of characters of the proposal ? |
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| 08:08.12 | araujo | it limits the abstract |
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| 08:12.41 | xiaohui | but it isnot over the limit,why still show me that 500 server error |
| 08:13.10 | ojwb | server's probably broken currently |
| 08:13.12 | ojwb | try again in a bit |
| 08:13.14 | ojwb | or report it on #melange |
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| 08:16.00 | xiaohui | anyone could sumbit the proposal now? |
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| 08:23.32 | kblin | hm, dammit |
| 08:23.49 | kblin | why is it that at the end of the money, there's still so much month left? |
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| 08:26.42 | p_l | kblin: because we are in a world with strong typesystem and someone made it so that students are of subtype "Poor" |
| 08:27.27 | kblin | p_l: hehe, I guess |
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| 08:28.32 | kblin | p_l: that's really the downside of being a gsoc mentor while still being a student :) |
| 08:28.34 | p_l | kblin: students that aren't poor either are not really of type "Student" or found a privilege elevation exploit and coerced their type :) |
| 08:29.01 | shirish | how do i apply after i select an organization |
| 08:29.03 | shirish | ? |
| 08:29.10 | kblin | !userguide |
| 08:29.11 | socinfo | "userguide" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/userguide |
| 08:29.14 | p_l | guesses he gets cranky in the morning after sleepless night |
| 08:29.15 | kblin | it's all in there |
| 08:30.06 | thebolt | hi all |
| 08:31.28 | kblin | hi thebolt |
| 08:32.24 | vivek | hai |
| 08:32.39 | spectie | !timeline |
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| 08:32.40 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/timeline |
| 08:33.09 | p_l | ãã¯ããããã |
| 08:33.10 | kblin | ok, time for food and then for picking up my laptop |
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| 08:38.14 | aghisla | morning all |
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| 09:23.31 | thebolt | hm.. anyone else who submitted a student application just recently? |
| 09:24.38 | aghisla | thebolt: recently includes yesterday? |
| 09:24.46 | thebolt | well, as recently as possible |
| 09:24.55 | thebolt | i get 500 Internal Error |
| 09:24.58 | aghisla | ... |
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| 09:25.37 | p_l | lol |
| 09:25.59 | kblin | thebolt: someone complained about that in #melange about an hour ago |
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| 09:26.44 | kblin | ahrg |
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| 09:26.54 | kblin | hates MSDN |
| 09:27.10 | kblin | even more today, as it's a real eyesore |
| 09:27.18 | BarryCarlyon | greets everyone |
| 09:27.26 | BarryCarlyon | puts the kettle on |
| 09:28.33 | thebolt | hi BarryCarlyon |
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| 09:28.39 | BarryCarlyon | Morning thebolt. |
| 09:28.41 | aghisla | oh dear BarryCarlyon |
| 09:28.52 | aghisla | I brought chocolate cookies |
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| 09:29.01 | BarryCarlyon | Yay! |
| 09:29.03 | spectie | !slots |
| 09:29.04 | socinfo | "slots" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/studentallocations |
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| 09:29.49 | spectie | when are the number of slots per organisation figures published |
| 09:29.58 | spectie | somewhere between the 3rd and 15th of april ? |
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| 09:30.13 | ojwb | thebolt: xiaohui mentioned getting 500 errors here earlier too |
| 09:30.48 | ojwb | spectie: they're not really final until the accepted students are announced |
| 09:30.53 | spectie | ok |
| 09:31.14 | ojwb | but the orgs know them roughly before as we iterate |
| 09:31.44 | susscorfa | !next |
| 09:31.44 | socinfo | "next" is Student application period has now started, and runs until April 3rd at 19:00 UTC (12:00 PST) (countdown: http://tinyurl.com/dzlmpj ). Students, apply now at http://tinyurl.com/cznmrx. |
| 09:31.48 | kblin | yeah, it usually changes by a slot more or less later |
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| 09:32.19 | kblin | I've only seen "less" happen when orgs asked for one student less after conflict resolution |
| 09:32.23 | ojwb | thinks it's rare for it to change hugely, except downwards if the org can't use that many |
| 09:32.24 | spectie | ah ok |
| 09:32.36 | ojwb | some org last year gave back loads |
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| 09:32.46 | spectie | well, we have 11 mentors registered and have asked for 7 slots, which will give us 4 backup mentors |
| 09:32.48 | ojwb | we begged an extra one quite late on |
| 09:32.50 | chunmun1 | spectie: I was selected for drupal last yr.. and there was a +1 in the slot count in the last hr.. |
| 09:33.02 | ojwb | are we meant to fill in that number yet? |
| 09:33.17 | ojwb | had assumed we wouldn't until the student app deadline |
| 09:33.18 | spectie | ojwb, i thought so |
| 09:33.27 | spectie | it seemed to be looming at us |
| 09:33.30 | spectie | the box |
| 09:33.31 | spectie | to be filled |
| 09:33.35 | kblin | I din't fill in anything there yet |
| 09:33.45 | spectie | we're probably nervous though ;) |
| 09:33.50 | ojwb | left it at zero, assuming we'd be prodded |
| 09:33.52 | kblin | I don't even have applications for Wine yet |
| 09:33.53 | spectie | and it can always be revised |
| 09:34.00 | ojwb | aww, poor kblin |
| 09:34.27 | kblin | ah, they'll be coming in on the last few days, as always |
| 09:34.42 | kblin | speaking of last few days, I need to submit a talk for a conference |
| 09:34.43 | ojwb | we had two early on, none since |
| 09:34.53 | ojwb | but enquiries on the list and irc |
| 09:35.07 | kblin | yeah, we had that as well |
| 09:35.11 | spectie | i have two posters to write for a conference in may :/ |
| 09:35.49 | kblin | is planning to jump the green-it bandwagon |
| 09:36.52 | kblin | I'm trying to get a simple active directory setup working on a 2W system |
| 09:37.03 | ojwb | isn't entirely clear on who has offered to mentor for us yet, so I think I'll leave it at 0 for now |
| 09:37.13 | ojwb | the other admin is away and back at the weekend |
| 09:37.26 | MaNI | surely it depends on seeing all the applications anyway |
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| 09:37.38 | ojwb | that's kind of my feeling |
| 09:37.46 | MaNI | if you have 20 mentors but only two applications that look worth mentoring you should only be requesting 2 slots |
| 09:37.50 | ojwb | but I could make a first stab at the max we could do |
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| 09:37.57 | ojwb | yeah |
| 09:38.10 | kblin | ojwb: I'm 100% certain leslie will poke us if we need to do anything about it |
| 09:38.31 | ojwb | she is a champion cat herder |
| 09:38.43 | kblin | world-class :) |
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| 09:39.00 | kblin | yay |
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| 09:39.08 | kblin | hugs his lapop |
| 09:39.21 | aghisla | hugs her laptop too |
| 09:39.27 | kblin | there's nothing like your own system |
| 09:39.32 | spectie | MaNI, exactly |
| 09:39.40 | kblin | $HOME sweet $HOME |
| 09:39.48 | aghisla | :D |
| 09:40.00 | aghisla | 192.168.1.1 sweet 192.168.1.1 |
| 09:40.09 | aghisla | hides |
| 09:40.27 | kblin | aghisla: 127.0.0.1 sweet 127.0.0.1, if at all |
| 09:40.37 | ojwb | indeed |
| 09:40.42 | aghisla | oops |
| 09:40.57 | kblin | or, if you want to be modern, ::1 sweet ::1 |
| 09:41.04 | Mathiasd1 | 127.0.0.0/8 sweet 127.0.0.0/8 |
| 09:41.33 | kblin | why is it that geeks are all such smart-alecs? |
| 09:41.36 | kblin | :) |
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| 09:41.48 | kblin | myself included, of course |
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| 09:43.52 | xiaohui | could I delete the submitted proposal |
| 09:45.08 | shirish | how many proposals for a single organizatins can be submitted can i submitted more than one project for same organization |
| 09:45.24 | ojwb | shirish: you can, but it's best to talk to the org first |
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| 09:45.34 | shirish | thank you ojwb |
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| 09:48.53 | aghisla | BarryCarlyon: the water's boiling! |
| 09:49.13 | BarryCarlyon | Hurrah! |
| 09:49.17 | BarryCarlyon | brews up |
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| 09:51.51 | BarryCarlyon | hands round cups of tea, green tea, and other kinds of tea, with a tray of biscuits and cookies |
| 09:51.53 | ojwb | students aren't allowed to graduate after 2030 |
| 09:51.59 | Mathiasd1 | :o |
| 09:52.01 | Mathiasd1 | says who? |
| 09:52.13 | Mathiasd1 | ooooh, cookies |
| 09:52.13 | ojwb | the form |
| 09:52.29 | Mathiasd1 | :-) |
| 09:53.22 | t0ms | I broke my notebook's LCD :((( |
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| 09:54.34 | aghisla | remembers huge chocolate chip cookies from Starbuck's |
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| 09:56.13 | ojwb | xiaohui: i think you go to edit it, and click "withdraw" at the bottom |
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| 09:58.34 | ojwb | ah, seems you only see that just after submitting |
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| 10:21.10 | Casuist | Hey folks. I'm new to IRC, is anyone on? |
| 10:21.28 | kblin | yup |
| 10:21.34 | kblin | around 400 people |
| 10:21.35 | Wolf_OSGeo | quite a lot of us |
| 10:21.58 | Casuist | haha.. I was just wondering for precisely that reason. I wasn't seeing any chat. |
| 10:22.09 | Casuist | great to know. |
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| 10:22.44 | Casuist | I'm working on my application for gsoc and thought I would try to pop into the IRC for the first time to see what was going on? |
| 10:23.12 | kblin | Casuist: there's more active times and less active times |
| 10:23.28 | Erant | This qualifies as a less active time. |
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| 10:23.37 | Wolf_OSGeo | Casuist: what org are you applying for? |
| 10:23.38 | kblin | it's kind of slow here at this time of day |
| 10:23.45 | Casuist | well yeah. It comes as no surprise. It's 3:30am where I am. |
| 10:23.46 | jasebo | I figured it was just me! |
| 10:24.11 | Casuist | I'm not actually sure. I just heard about this through my university. |
| 10:24.26 | kblin | Casuist: yeah, it's more active around evening UTC, when the US folks get up and the Europeans get home from work |
| 10:24.28 | Casuist | It's all very new to me, so I'm still reading and trying to figure out the process. |
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| 10:25.14 | BarryCarlyon | rofl: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2009/mar/24/penis-drawing-roof-google |
| 10:25.18 | Casuist | ah |
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| 10:25.41 | t0ms | Casuist: where are you from? |
| 10:25.52 | Casuist | Oregon, United States |
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| 10:26.47 | ojwb | BarryCarlyon: it's not actually in google's aerial picture though |
| 10:27.05 | t0ms | so you have like 3-4 am |
| 10:27.22 | Casuist | 3:30am, yeah |
| 10:27.39 | kblin | sighs |
| 10:27.49 | kblin | that's so beavis and butthead |
| 10:27.59 | BarryCarlyon | hmm |
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| 10:28.34 | Casuist | so are most of the people in this program college students? |
| 10:29.01 | relix- | as opposed to what Casuist? |
| 10:29.04 | t0ms | Casuist: I'm pre-college student |
| 10:29.11 | relix- | ah like that |
| 10:29.12 | jasebo | I'm a post-college non student |
| 10:29.41 | Casuist | cool. |
| 10:29.54 | Casuist | Jasebo you have a degree already then? |
| 10:30.02 | jasebo | I wouldn't be up at 3:30am! |
| 10:30.18 | kblin | jasebo: er.. |
| 10:30.21 | relix- | jasebo .. |
| 10:30.23 | Casuist | haha.. yeah, I'm kind of a night owl. |
| 10:30.24 | pedronveloso | good morning |
| 10:30.26 | pedronveloso | :P |
| 10:30.43 | relix- | I'm regularly up at that time, and I'm a college student :p |
| 10:31.02 | kblin | relix: I guess that was jasebo's point |
| 10:31.09 | jasebo | exactly! |
| 10:31.14 | relix- | oh snap |
| 10:31.30 | relix- | my sarcasm detector must be malfunctioning |
| 10:31.31 | ojwb | often is and is a real person |
| 10:31.33 | jasebo | toddles off for a cup of tea and a lie down |
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| 10:31.49 | Casuist | lol |
| 10:31.52 | kblin | ojwb: I'm not sure kiwis count... |
| 10:32.03 | kblin | ;) |
| 10:32.07 | ojwb | isn't a kiwi |
| 10:32.09 | ojwb | well, not yet |
| 10:32.11 | llnz | watch it kblin |
| 10:32.17 | ojwb | give it a couple of years |
| 10:32.21 | llnz | :-) |
| 10:32.24 | jasebo | are you just across the ditch are you ojwb? |
| 10:32.31 | ojwb | yep |
| 10:32.32 | Lezard | cool a kiwi |
| 10:32.33 | Lezard | xD |
| 10:32.49 | ojwb | only been here a year though - i'm from the UK originally |
| 10:32.54 | kblin | llnz: I mean from the point of "being up to be able to talk to anybody who's not from australia" |
| 10:33.04 | *** join/#gsoc arnaudleg (n=arnaudle@cop60-1-82-240-25-4.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 10:33.07 | llnz | hehe |
| 10:34.06 | kblin | still remembers the fun we had scheduling media team meetings at WF |
| 10:34.06 | *** join/#gsoc instinctfmine (i=7be714e4@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-4c5f3b8f0000807a) |
| 10:34.31 | *** join/#gsoc mavu_ (n=satya@59.178.186.227) |
| 10:34.39 | instinctfmine | :) |
| 10:35.12 | kblin | like let's meet late friday evening UTC, so the europeans are still up, the AUS/NZ folks are already up and the Americans are home from work |
| 10:35.50 | Casuist | where is UTC time? |
| 10:35.53 | relix- | but what about the asians! |
| 10:35.59 | Casuist | I'm used to Japanese time, but not UTC |
| 10:35.59 | relix- | racist! |
| 10:36.02 | pedronveloso | can someone tell me about the documentation google needs? "For all students, we will need a transcript/proof of enrollment in school.", is there a deadline to send this? |
| 10:36.04 | Casuist | haha |
| 10:36.30 | kblin | relix: we had no asians in the media team |
| 10:36.39 | relix- | kblin, still, it's a little bit racist ;) |
| 10:36.50 | kblin | pff |
| 10:37.00 | relix- | I've no idea what time they are on, really, just messing with ya |
| 10:37.12 | instinctfmine | mmm.... |
| 10:37.24 | kblin | it's hard enough to schedule the meetings for all people in an international team |
| 10:37.30 | jasebo | asia has lots of timezones |
| 10:37.35 | llnz | kblin: yeah, i remember organising worlds meetings and attending server meetings |
| 10:37.51 | llnz | 8am on a saturday or sunday |
| 10:37.56 | kblin | llnz: yeah, the world meetings were the same actually |
| 10:38.12 | jasebo | argh.. 8am meetings.. I hate them |
| 10:38.23 | Casuist | wait I got it I think. It looks like I'm sitting at -7 UTC. |
| 10:38.33 | jasebo | UTC = GMT |
| 10:38.58 | instinctfmine | UTC==GMT? |
| 10:38.59 | Casuist | yeah, I just got that |
| 10:39.11 | Casuist | yes |
| 10:39.11 | BarryCarlyon | UTC != GMT |
| 10:39.16 | Casuist | lol |
| 10:39.22 | kblin | BarryCarlyon: close enough, though |
| 10:39.25 | jasebo | BarryCarlyon: please explain :-) |
| 10:39.37 | kblin | jasebo: one of them has leap seconds, one hasn't |
| 10:39.41 | BarryCarlyon | UTC is universal time, GMT is greeniwch mean time |
| 10:39.41 | haoyu | pedronveloso, you only need to send it when they asked you |
| 10:39.43 | kblin | I can't remember which was which |
| 10:39.58 | BarryCarlyon | GMT I think kblin |
| 10:40.09 | pedronveloso | ok, thanks, and yeah UTC != GMT |
| 10:40.10 | reggna | Oh, no. Someone might be a few seconds late to the meeting! :O |
| 10:40.23 | BarryCarlyon | UTC is constant, but during british summer time (BST) GMT is generally forgotton, and everyone assumes BST is GMT. |
| 10:40.40 | Casuist | :P |
| 10:40.45 | Raim | reggna: lol |
| 10:41.27 | jasebo | but for all intents and purposes... UTC=GMT |
| 10:41.28 | *** join/#gsoc dimazest (n=dimazest@unibz.it) |
| 10:41.29 | jasebo | lol |
| 10:42.20 | pedronveloso | well im GMT+0 cause I live in Portugal, and I just checked http://www.bipm.org/, and it says the diference is 18 seconds, so I guess is the same after all :\, hehe |
| 10:43.06 | relix- | 18 seconds |
| 10:43.08 | relix- | heh |
| 10:43.08 | pedronveloso | * 0.18 seconds :P |
| 10:43.14 | relix- | lol |
| 10:43.16 | devvrat | !timeline |
| 10:43.17 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/timeline |
| 10:45.08 | *** join/#gsoc dimazest (n=dimazest@unibz.it) |
| 10:45.23 | Casuist | so what IRC clients are you guys using? I might try to find a good one to install. Right now I'm just using mibbit.com which I find rather limiting. |
| 10:45.39 | thebolt | irssi |
| 10:45.44 | jasebo | chatzilla |
| 10:45.48 | AlekSi | XMPP-IRC transport and Psi :P |
| 10:46.15 | Mathiasd1 | irssi ftw :) |
| 10:46.17 | Mathiasd1 | Psi? |
| 10:46.22 | aghisla | konversation |
| 10:46.26 | *** join/#gsoc jaguarandi (n=darkaj@a83-132-233-199.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 10:46.26 | AlekSi | http://psi-im.org |
| 10:46.36 | Mathiasd1 | ah |
| 10:46.39 | Mathiasd1 | looks nice |
| 10:46.55 | Casuist | don't think I'd care for irssi, I'm too visual of a person, hehe. |
| 10:47.05 | t0ms | Casuist: irssi |
| 10:47.10 | t0ms | :) |
| 10:47.15 | Mathiasd1 | xchat is a nice program as well (and graphical ;) ) |
| 10:47.16 | *** join/#gsoc Chainsaw (n=chainsaw@amalthea.dyn.pbo.linx.net) |
| 10:47.25 | *** join/#gsoc Fing (n=Fingolfi@s0595.vpn.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de) |
| 10:47.30 | MaNI | xchat |
| 10:47.40 | *** join/#gsoc mhuot_ (n=mhuot@c-24-118-182-94.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 10:48.32 | pedronveloso | Konversation |
| 10:48.41 | Chainsaw | Conspire. |
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| 10:50.24 | *** join/#gsoc instinctfmine (i=7be714e3@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-2df9bdc69699797e) |
| 10:51.02 | *** join/#gsoc Teo` (n=Teo@140.105.164.27) |
| 10:51.27 | ojwb | nc to the irc port |
| 10:52.36 | thebolt | ojwb: cat & echo to the ethernet driver ;) |
| 10:52.51 | *** join/#gsoc KhaledE (n=Administ@41.225.239.24) |
| 10:53.15 | kblin | magnet over my DSL cable |
| 10:53.21 | reggna | :P |
| 10:53.25 | aghisla | morse |
| 10:53.53 | Casuist | Hmmmm.... Psi, Konversation, Xchat, and Conspire all look pretty nice. Especially Conspire. |
| 10:53.55 | jasebo | i have a young kid on a donkey who brings scrawled messages up the hill 3 times per day, and waits for my written reply |
| 10:54.04 | aghisla | pigeons? |
| 10:54.10 | KhaledE | hi there, where can i find a list per languages of the projects ?? |
| 10:54.13 | aghisla | jasebo: HAHA wonderfil |
| 10:54.14 | ojwb | no thanks, I've eaten |
| 10:54.22 | ojwb | !orgbylang |
| 10:54.23 | socinfo | "orgbylang" is 2009 list is work in progress: http://delicious.com/gsoc2009/bundle:Languages |
| 10:54.24 | *** join/#gsoc kumarabhi (n=chatzill@115.241.202.175) |
| 10:54.42 | jasebo | aghisla: and you tell that to young people these days.... |
| 10:54.43 | *** join/#gsoc disismt (n=disismt@124.124.233.29) |
| 10:54.50 | ojwb | KhaledE: ^^ (as linked to from the AdviceForStudents page, which is also worth reading) |
| 10:55.27 | aghisla | or like the Athenian soldier who ran from athens to marathon to bring victory message |
| 10:55.38 | KhaledE | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:56.16 | *** join/#gsoc Huy (n=huy@118.68.94.186) |
| 10:56.31 | Casuist | anyone use mIRC? That one looks pretty great too. |
| 10:56.37 | aghisla | jasebo: the kid on a donkey on the hill is very Lord of the Ring-ish |
| 10:57.19 | *** join/#gsoc arnaudleg (n=arnaudle@cop60-1-82-240-25-4.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 10:57.32 | Casuist | http://www.mirc.com/mirc.html <-- what about that one? |
| 10:58.05 | Raim | mirc is so 90s ;) |
| 10:58.51 | Casuist | really? Why's that? |
| 10:59.19 | Casuist | It's current. 2009. |
| 10:59.44 | *** join/#gsoc mib_wbwk56mz (i=3ba217dd@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-8dd0f77921756a06) |
| 10:59.54 | Casuist | hey pedronveloso isn't Konversation for Kubuntu? |
| 11:00.18 | kblin | well, mirc is a windows client, and all the kiddies use it |
| 11:00.23 | *** part/#gsoc KhaledE (n=Administ@41.225.239.24) |
| 11:00.28 | aghisla | ;_ |
| 11:00.31 | aghisla | ;) |
| 11:00.40 | kblin | also, I guess about 90% off the IRC exploits out there target mirc |
| 11:00.41 | Raim | Casuist: just kidding. my experience is from back then when I used windows years ago |
| 11:00.53 | AlekSi | Psi is a client for XMPP (Jabber), not IRC. |
| 11:00.58 | meonkeys | how do I add Mifos to http://delicious.com/gsoc2009/bundle:Languages ? |
| 11:00.59 | AlekSi | You will need transport. |
| 11:01.00 | Raim | Casuist: and even on windows I rather switched to xchat |
| 11:01.25 | *** join/#gsoc semmalai (n=root@210.212.246.51) |
| 11:01.25 | pedronveloso | Casuist: not only, I'm using openSuse, Konversation is a part of KDE I think, so any distro can have it, kubuntu probably has it too |
| 11:01.39 | kblin | meonkeys: look on the mentor's list for the login/pass |
| 11:01.43 | Casuist | ooh.. that's not good |
| 11:02.04 | kblin | Casuist: I'd use Xchat on windows |
| 11:02.28 | kblin | Casuist: there's free builds available as well, not only the one by the author where he wants money for the build |
| 11:02.42 | Mathiasd1 | first proposal version is almost ready :) yay |
| 11:02.49 | meonkeys | kblin: ah, ok. thanks! |
| 11:02.52 | Casuist | yeah, I thought I saw it when I had Ubuntu |
| 11:02.55 | Mathiasd1 | yes, there's a 'silverex' version or something |
| 11:03.18 | *** join/#gsoc larry_jr (n=Larry@200.184.118.130) |
| 11:03.45 | semmalai | i have one project idea for GSOC . using this any one can develop the dynamic websites like online quiz,airline reservation,shopping cart ...etc by just drag and drop and data base to page mapping is it worthful or this feature is already available in some othe tools |
| 11:04.45 | Toba | that idea is... worthful. |
| 11:04.54 | Toba | and clearly completely original. |
| 11:04.59 | Casuist | btw, Psi is actually available for Windows, though it seems quite heavy at a 11.6mb download |
| 11:05.25 | *** join/#gsoc [mharrison] (n=mharriso@c-71-192-116-155.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 11:05.40 | Casuist | sorry, I think the point you were trying to make is that it's for Jabber not IRC, haha |
| 11:06.08 | Casuist | Well, I think I've narrowed them all down to Xchat. That seems to be the best one for Windows. |
| 11:06.13 | *** join/#gsoc FeezX (i=FeezX@CPE001fd050f05d-CM00080d354a44.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
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| 11:07.10 | semmalai | Toba:thanks for your comment |
| 11:07.17 | kblin | I don't believe in drag&drop programming |
| 11:07.23 | Toba | sorry for my sarcasm semmalai |
| 11:07.25 | Casuist | semmalai I've seen something like that using a Java applet before, but I'm always in favor of doing away with those. They take too darn long to load. |
| 11:07.27 | Toba | but I don't think it's a good idea at all |
| 11:07.34 | Toba | it isn't even a good idea for programming legos |
| 11:08.01 | Casuist | why is that Toba? |
| 11:08.14 | Raim | drag&drop is not turing complete, that's the problem |
| 11:08.31 | Toba | let me try to be succinct... because.... *because*.... BECAUSE..... *rending of clothes* because it just ain't smart. |
| 11:08.34 | Casuist | turing? |
| 11:08.37 | kblin | there's two ways to implement this correctly, and only the third works |
| 11:08.49 | FeezX | is there a minimum required programming experience to apply to GSOC? |
| 11:08.57 | Toba | and there's our problem. if you don't know who turing is, you probably shouldn't try to revolutionize the computer science field. |
| 11:09.12 | kblin | FeezX: let me reply to this with another question. how long is a piece of string? |
| 11:09.26 | Toba | hopefully not longer than the roll it's on. |
| 11:09.35 | Casuist | I'm not... I just changed majors from Electrical Engineering. |
| 11:09.40 | Casuist | pardon my ignorance. |
| 11:09.49 | *** join/#gsoc sivaji (n=sivaji__@122.164.242.40) |
| 11:09.56 | Toba | turing completeness is a concept |
| 11:10.03 | Toba | if something is turing complete, it can run any program |
| 11:10.07 | Toba | do anything a computer can do |
| 11:10.09 | kblin | Casuist: turing completeness is a property that describes if you can solve any solvable problem using the language |
| 11:10.25 | FeezX | hehe, yeah, well, I'm just asking... I've been learning c++ (from book, myself) for sometime, but... |
| 11:10.42 | kblin | FeezX: it really, really depends on the project |
| 11:11.08 | Casuist | hmmm.... I suspect science will one day (probably soon) reach that level of sophistication. |
| 11:11.20 | *** join/#gsoc Vamsi (n=Vamsi@121.247.120.7) |
| 11:11.30 | Toba | 'can' |
| 11:11.34 | Toba | does not mean 'can easily' :p |
| 11:11.38 | kblin | Casuist: probably all programming languages in wider use are turing-complete |
| 11:11.43 | Toba | I should hope so |
| 11:11.52 | Mathiasd1 | even brainfuck is turing complete |
| 11:11.53 | FeezX | oka, and, on GSOC website, it says I need to be a student. I'm currently taking a part-time (1 day a week) math course at college, does this qualify? |
| 11:11.59 | kblin | heck, the C++ template metalanguage is turing complete on itself |
| 11:12.00 | Casuist | well of course not. Anything worth doing takes a lot of time and commitment. |
| 11:12.15 | Toba | kblin but there be dragons in those waters |
| 11:12.19 | MaNI | In the student sign up page for degree there are three options "Undergraduate/Master/PhD" but in my country we have a level "Honours" which falls in between Undergraduate and Masters, What should I select here? |
| 11:12.41 | kblin | Toba: given that it took lots of years to prove it was, I definitely guess so |
| 11:13.34 | *** join/#gsoc poona (n=poona@unaffiliated/poona) |
| 11:13.35 | Toba | writes a c to c++ template metalanguage code translator |
| 11:13.53 | kblin | MaNI: toss a coin |
| 11:14.06 | Casuist | I suspect your country has a better education system than here in Amercia, so it's likely that your Honours is equal to our Masters. |
| 11:14.06 | kblin | MaNI: that's just for the statistics, iirc |
| 11:14.12 | Casuist | possibly |
| 11:14.19 | *** join/#gsoc robson_ (n=robson@201.37.98.171) |
| 11:14.39 | MaNI | Casuist, I don't think so somehow |
| 11:14.45 | jasebo | Casuist: Hmmm... I think honours isn't masters |
| 11:14.51 | poona | is there any way one can find out who are all the mentors accepted by a particular organization so far? |
| 11:14.55 | poona | i mean if you are already a mentor, is there a way to find out the rest of the mentors for your org |
| 11:14.59 | *** join/#gsoc mmaruseacph2 (n=mihai@p16.eregie.pub.ro) |
| 11:15.00 | ojwb | FeezX: I think you need to be full time, but check the FAQ |
| 11:15.10 | MaNI | kblin, okay if it is just for statistics I guess I will just call it undergraduate |
| 11:15.21 | jasebo | MaNI: problem for you is that you've already graduated, technically speaking.. right? |
| 11:15.25 | ojwb | poona: ask the admin |
| 11:15.27 | MaNI | This is why statistics should never be trusted :P |
| 11:15.34 | MaNI | jasebo, correct |
| 11:15.51 | poona | ojwb: who is the admin here. danderson? |
| 11:15.59 | ojwb | your org's admin |
| 11:16.02 | *** join/#gsoc skbohr1 (n=shree@117.199.112.6) |
| 11:16.05 | poona | oh |
| 11:16.08 | ojwb | they can see tehm |
| 11:16.09 | ojwb | them |
| 11:16.25 | ojwb | maybe mentors can see each other, but I can't tell as I'm an admin... |
| 11:16.33 | FeezX | ojwb: "You may be enrolled as a full-time or part-time student." but, I don't even have a student card or nothing from my school! |
| 11:16.45 | MaNI | jasebo, so technically speaking I am not undergraduate, but Honours is not the same as Masters either so |
| 11:16.45 | ojwb | FeezX: can you get something? |
| 11:17.04 | *** join/#gsoc Huy (n=huy@118.68.94.186) |
| 11:17.08 | jasebo | MaNI: I see your dilemma, but my legal-sense is tingling and saying that you can't claim a "masters" |
| 11:17.32 | FeezX | 'get' something? I'm sure I have some sort of record there, since I paid for the course, etc. |
| 11:17.35 | jasebo | MaNI: My solution would be to say undergraduate and then find somewhere else to say "But I'm really doing honours" |
| 11:17.37 | ojwb | I think you should pick whichever seems closer |
| 11:17.45 | ojwb | FeezX: I mean ask them for a letter |
| 11:17.56 | MaNI | jasebo, makes the most sense yeah |
| 11:18.07 | jasebo | ojwb: honours here in Aus. is 1 extra year after undergrad, and masters is 2 |
| 11:18.12 | ojwb | saying "FeezX is a student enrolled here" |
| 11:18.12 | MaNI | jasebo, I would rather lie downwards then upwards anyway if I have to lie |
| 11:18.18 | jasebo | ojwb: so they're equidistant |
| 11:18.53 | FeezX | ojwb: Hmm, I'd have to check out. |
| 11:19.04 | kblin | MaNI: as a mentor, I don't care about your degree, I just care about skill and dedication |
| 11:19.17 | ojwb | do we even see that field? |
| 11:19.29 | MaNI | kblin, sure but I don't want to later be disqualified for lying about my current degree or something arb |
| 11:19.51 | MaNI | kblin, not that I think that will happen but I would rather do what is considered most right anyway |
| 11:20.15 | jasebo | MaNI: Just so you know, I have no idea if they'd get nasty about it or not :-) |
| 11:20.29 | kblin | MaNI: dunno, I claimed undergrad, but in germany we have (or used to have for people who started more recently) only a "Diplom", which is roughly equivalent to a M.Sc. |
| 11:20.36 | ojwb | no, the org doesn't see it |
| 11:21.03 | MaNI | think I'll go with undergrad |
| 11:21.04 | MaNI | thanks |
| 11:21.07 | kblin | so the undergrad/grad student split doesn't apply at all |
| 11:21.11 | *** join/#gsoc dimazest (n=dimazest@unibz.it) |
| 11:21.15 | ojwb | would be astonished if someone was disqualified for picking the wrong one in such a case |
| 11:21.16 | Casuist | So Toba, is turing an idea of AI in computers? That's what it seems to be to me, just from what I've read so far. |
| 11:21.30 | kblin | Casuist: that's the turing test |
| 11:21.35 | Casuist | somehow simulating the mind of a human? |
| 11:21.41 | kblin | Casuist: that's different |
| 11:21.45 | Casuist | ah |
| 11:21.49 | Casuist | still reading |
| 11:21.54 | kblin | Casuist: though I guess proclaimed by the same turing |
| 11:22.03 | ojwb | "turing machine" and "turing complete" are relevant phrases |
| 11:22.13 | ojwb | alan |
| 11:22.29 | Toba | ojwb and kblin have this under control :) |
| 11:23.13 | *** join/#gsoc Lennie (n=ljvderij@x035060.its-s.tudelft.nl) |
| 11:23.13 | *** mode/#gsoc [+o Lennie] by ChanServ |
| 11:23.20 | Casuist | yes, Alan |
| 11:23.23 | kblin | hi lennie |
| 11:23.29 | Lennie | hi kblin |
| 11:23.53 | kblin | Lennie: there were some people having issues with sending student applications before |
| 11:23.58 | kblin | thebolt: ping |
| 11:24.00 | Lennie | We know |
| 11:24.05 | kblin | ah, ok |
| 11:24.17 | ojwb | FeezX: if you need clarification about exactly what google want to see, talk to lh (but she's probably asleep as she's in california) |
| 11:24.32 | Casuist | I'm actually having that problem too, but I should be able to figure it out tomorrow when I'm more awake. |
| 11:24.41 | Lennie | kblin, we are all deeming them as dangerous :P |
| 11:24.51 | Casuist | on that note, I think I'll hit the hay. |
| 11:25.08 | kblin | Lennie: I see |
| 11:25.28 | Casuist | good night all. Cheers! |
| 11:25.30 | *** join/#gsoc eallrich (n=eallrich@hulk.dreamhost.com) |
| 11:25.43 | *** part/#gsoc Casuist (i=47edcc84@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ded5e747524fc90f) |
| 11:26.08 | *** join/#gsoc cdx (n=Miranda@cdx-laptop.ds.pg.gda.pl) |
| 11:27.50 | Lennie | anyhow |
| 11:27.54 | Lennie | Fix is deployed :) |
| 11:28.30 | poona | this channel reminds me of those good old days |
| 11:28.45 | kblin | Lennie: thanks |
| 11:28.49 | jasebo | poona: what were those good old days? |
| 11:29.07 | poona | and all those excitement when they get selected |
| 11:29.12 | poona | jasebo: gsoc |
| 11:29.18 | jasebo | :-) |
| 11:29.22 | jasebo | I danced |
| 11:29.33 | jasebo | in retrospect, it was very embarrasing |
| 11:29.46 | *** join/#gsoc arnaudleg_ (n=arnaudle@cop60-1-82-240-25-4.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 11:29.48 | omniter | i would bust down my door and scream in the hallway |
| 11:29.57 | poona | especially when lh and others start announcing the results. uncontrollable. lh had to mute the thread :) |
| 11:29.58 | *** join/#gsoc zwj (n=zwjsq@210.41.87.200) |
| 11:29.59 | poona | hehe |
| 11:30.17 | poona | jasebo: ex gsoc'er? |
| 11:30.40 | jasebo | no... when we were chosen as an mentoring org |
| 11:30.52 | jasebo | so, it was recently retrospectively embarrasing |
| 11:30.52 | aghisla | jasebo: reminds me one year ago :) |
| 11:30.59 | poona | oh. so you are a mentor |
| 11:31.01 | poona | ? |
| 11:31.05 | jasebo | yes |
| 11:31.10 | *** join/#gsoc Egis (n=Egis@cpc1-finc11-2-0-cust598.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 11:31.15 | poona | jasebo: great. which org? |
| 11:31.20 | jasebo | LimeSurvey |
| 11:31.53 | poona | nice |
| 11:32.44 | poona | anyways best of luck to all students this year. |
| 11:32.53 | aghisla | crosses fingers |
| 11:32.54 | *** join/#gsoc dimazest (n=dimazest@unibz.it) |
| 11:35.42 | *** join/#gsoc Noya (i=noya@andariel.informatik.uni-erlangen.de) |
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| 11:37.46 | *** mode/#gsoc [+o mithro] by ChanServ |
| 11:38.26 | meonkeys | is Olly in here? |
| 11:38.34 | *** join/#gsoc MarkieMark1 (n=mark@lns-bzn-42-82-255-115-10.adsl.proxad.net) |
| 11:38.46 | ojwb | yes |
| 11:38.59 | meonkeys | ojwb: hi there, my real name is Adam Monsen. |
| 11:39.09 | ojwb | ok |
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| 11:39.31 | meonkeys | so, the login to change gsoc2009 bookmarks is for delicious.com, correct? |
| 11:39.40 | ojwb | yes |
| 11:39.40 | *** join/#gsoc cylmor_ (n=cylmor@cm173228.red91-116.mundo-r.com) |
| 11:39.47 | ojwb | doesn't it work for you? |
| 11:39.59 | meonkeys | no, and I tried it several times |
| 11:40.03 | ojwb | hmm |
| 11:40.10 | meonkeys | cut/paste and typing it in. |
| 11:40.13 | ojwb | did you just want to add java? |
| 11:40.23 | *** join/#gsoc parren (n=peo@80-219-219-168.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 11:40.28 | meonkeys | I wanted to add Mifos as a Java project, yes. |
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| 11:40.59 | ojwb | grameen? |
| 11:41.23 | meonkeys | yeah, the software project is called Mifos, the company who funds it is called the Grameen Foundation USA |
| 11:41.27 | ojwb | ok |
| 11:41.34 | ojwb | done |
| 11:41.48 | ojwb | no idea about the login though... |
| 11:42.03 | ojwb | logged in and out to check it before sending the mail |
| 11:42.22 | meonkeys | yeah, strange... I'm usually pretty adept at logging in. :) |
| 11:42.31 | meonkeys | thanks for your help, Olly. |
| 11:43.03 | ojwb | sure |
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| 11:45.06 | meonkeys | ojwb: aha! I tried it with a new Firefox profile (no delicious cookies) and it worked. |
| 11:45.23 | meonkeys | heh, delicious cookies. |
| 11:45.37 | ojwb | ah, you already have an account? |
| 11:45.56 | ojwb | might be worth posting that tip to the list |
| 11:46.03 | *** part/#gsoc ywu (n=ywu@124-171-97-231.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 11:46.05 | meonkeys | yes. I only tried logging out of my own account first, not blowing away cookies. |
| 11:46.08 | meonkeys | sure, will do. |
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| 11:52.34 | Lennie | steals meonkeys's cookies. Mwahaha! |
| 11:52.53 | Lennie | Sorry, I had to :D |
| 11:53.29 | meonkeys | :) |
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| 11:53.56 | reggna | cookies? for me? |
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| 11:55.32 | Lennie | shares his cookies with reggna |
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| 12:03.36 | thebolt | kblin: pong ;) |
| 12:03.39 | thebolt | (was out for dinner) |
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| 12:08.36 | kblin | thebolt: just about your melange issues |
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| 12:09.03 | thebolt | kblin: guessed as much :) |
| 12:09.05 | thebolt | but it works now |
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| 12:17.05 | reggna | Lennie|Food: :D |
| 12:17.51 | NotAee | Greetings people. Would me being a committer in a project already, be an issue for participating in soc ? |
| 12:18.13 | kblin | NotAee: nope, as long as you're eligible otherwise |
| 12:18.20 | NotAee | thanks kblin |
| 12:18.27 | kblin | NotAee: at least from the google side of things |
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| 12:18.47 | kblin | NotAee: some mentoring orgs will focus on getting new people into the community |
| 12:19.15 | NotAee | So I've heard, yep. |
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| 12:20.39 | kblin | so talk to the prospective mentoring orgs |
| 12:20.52 | kblin | as always with gsoc, communication is key |
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| 12:25.44 | volker | I have a rather general question: I will write my bachelor thesis in the upcoming months. My idea is to programm a mashup framework for applications on the Android platform. |
| 12:26.00 | volker | could that project be part of the gsoc? |
| 12:26.37 | NotAee | AFAIK you must contribute to an existing project. If this can fit to some already existing project, I guess yes. |
| 12:27.27 | danderson | note that Android is not a mentoring org this year |
| 12:27.28 | volker | okay |
| 12:27.50 | danderson | so you'll need to find another org that is interested in mobile apps in general (I think there is one) |
| 12:28.16 | volker | students includes unversity students? |
| 12:28.42 | danderson | yes. |
| 12:28.52 | danderson | any institution that has permission from the local government to teach |
| 12:28.55 | volker | In German there is a different word for both :) |
| 12:29.27 | danderson | (which sadly includes that creation science institute in Jesusland, but there you go) |
| 12:29.31 | lut4rp | hello |
| 12:30.14 | kblin | danderson: any cut-off chosen will leave you with some cruft |
| 12:30.27 | danderson | yeah, sure. |
| 12:30.32 | volker | From what I read there is no mobile related project |
| 12:30.34 | volker | too bad |
| 12:31.01 | danderson | no? I was pretty sure there was at least one group doing stuff in the mobile space in general... Maybe I got it wrong. |
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| 12:31.17 | arun | volker, maemo does some mobile/embedded, i think. |
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| 12:31.33 | danderson | Android will probably mentor in future years (if SoC continues to exist, of course), but this year they're too busy |
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| 12:32.25 | volker | thx anyways guys :) |
| 12:32.34 | ojwb | if you can find a mentor yourself, then the google umbrella is possible I guess |
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| 12:33.22 | kblin | it's probably not too good a pick this year |
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| 12:33.40 | ojwb | ? |
| 12:34.23 | ice-man | hi may some here will be able to answer me this |
| 12:34.37 | ice-man | is it normal having unresolved symbols on a shared library as it doesnt have reverse dependencies ?? |
| 12:34.50 | BarryCarlyon | um wrong channel? |
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| 12:35.35 | ice-man | may be some one is able to answer me |
| 12:35.51 | ojwb | that doesn't mean this is the place to ask though |
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| 12:36.07 | *** mode/#gsoc [+o SRabbelier] by ChanServ |
| 12:36.07 | sandy_kc | anybody concerned to ASCEND..?? |
| 12:36.25 | AlekSi | ice-man: sounds strange |
| 12:36.25 | BarryCarlyon | Since for a start what os, what library etc. Better off asking in a more appropriate channel. |
| 12:36.27 | *** join/#gsoc arunreddy (n=excelsio@220.224.105.85) |
| 12:37.11 | ice-man | AlekSi why? |
| 12:37.13 | ojwb | !anyone |
| 12:37.13 | socinfo | "anyone" is Instead of looking for mentors from specific projects here, you will likely get much better results by speaking to that mentoring organization themselves. You can find the org's contact info by clicking on their name in the list at: http://socghop.appspot.com/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2009 |
| 12:37.18 | ojwb | sandy_kc: ^^ |
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| 12:37.50 | AlekSi | ice-man: I think it's not normal, but I'm not an expert |
| 12:38.31 | ice-man | me neither |
| 12:38.43 | sandy_kc | ok |
| 12:38.45 | ice-man | that is why i am asking |
| 12:38.50 | *** part/#gsoc arunreddy (n=excelsio@220.224.105.85) |
| 12:38.56 | ojwb | well, you'll find experts elsewhere |
| 12:38.57 | ojwb | really |
| 12:39.31 | ice-man | ok ojwb forget about it i wont ask anymore keep the channel for you |
| 12:39.58 | ojwb | no, keep it for stuff related to GSOC |
| 12:40.17 | sandy_kc | ojwb:actually there is no one on that particular channel of the organization, and mentor is not replying to my email |
| 12:40.37 | ojwb | if they aren't it their own channel, I really doubt they'd be here |
| 12:40.45 | Lezard | lol |
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| 12:40.51 | Lezard | good point |
| 12:40.55 | sandy_kc | hmm... |
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| 12:42.44 | ojwb | if they're mostly US-based, it's nighttime now |
| 12:43.03 | omniter | actually US is morning right now |
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| 12:43.20 | ojwb | 8:43am in NY it says here |
| 12:43.30 | omniter | 8:43 am is morning... |
| 12:43.32 | ojwb | 5:43am west coast |
| 12:43.32 | jasebo | they're all stuck in traffic |
| 12:43.36 | ojwb | not in my book... |
| 12:43.43 | omniter | -_- |
| 12:44.14 | omniter | if the sun's up, it's definitely morning. |
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| 12:44.19 | omniter | or afternoon |
| 12:44.25 | *** join/#gsoc NicDumZ (n=nico@wikimedia/NicDumZ) |
| 12:44.27 | omniter | but definitely not nighttime |
| 12:44.38 | sandy_kc | how abt australia?? |
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| 12:44.56 | jasebo | almost midnight |
| 12:45.08 | *** join/#gsoc PINguAR_ (n=nec@194.27.222.68) |
| 12:45.16 | ojwb | depending where - it's quite wide... |
| 12:45.19 | sandy78 | viens me voir sur www.maxicanne.com |
| 12:45.39 | jasebo | the west doesn't count :-D |
| 12:46.05 | omniter | wow... |
| 12:46.15 | omniter | did we just get a french porno ad in here?! |
| 12:46.28 | omniter | wtf is goin on... |
| 12:46.33 | ojwb | spambots |
| 12:46.34 | *** mode/#gsoc [+b *!*@*.maxicanne.com] by danderson |
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| 12:50.02 | lagolas | Hey for some reason I am not able to open to GSoC 2009 site, and read about diff projects, though its working fine on my frnd's comp. Does anyone having similar problem? |
| 12:50.47 | *** join/#gsoc disismt (n=disismt@124.124.233.29) |
| 12:51.24 | lagolas | Other sites are working fine for me, but can't open anything with url http://socghop.appspot.com/org/show/google/gsoc2009/..... |
| 12:52.09 | sandy_kc | can someone please tell whether the channel "#N/A" is not available or a channel..?? |
| 12:52.13 | jaguarandi | well I am havng a 404 in that url :S |
| 12:52.20 | BarryCarlyon | Maybe one of the servers in the round robin is down lagolas |
| 12:52.24 | sandy_kc | because I am able to enter in the channel...but of course i am alone |
| 12:52.24 | Lennie | jaguarandi, yeah because it has dots on the end |
| 12:52.29 | Lennie | lagolas: http://socghop.appspot.com/org/show/google/gsoc2009/melange works fine here |
| 12:52.30 | jaguarandi | lagolas, ^^ |
| 12:52.36 | BarryCarlyon | sadrul, I entered it |
| 12:52.37 | jaguarandi | no Lennie i took the ... |
| 12:52.42 | BarryCarlyon | sandy_kc, even. |
| 12:52.49 | Lennie | that still isn't a valid URL :) |
| 12:52.52 | omniter | i entered it too... |
| 12:52.55 | Lennie | so yeah you should get a 404 |
| 12:53.14 | lut4rp | yech... root in OS X uses sh, instead of bash :/ |
| 12:53.36 | jaguarandi | ah yeah Lennie you are right :p |
| 12:53.42 | lagolas | well I meant any url starting with that, try replacing "...." with "plan9" |
| 12:53.47 | sandy_kc | BarryCarlyon:even..?? |
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| 12:54.16 | omniter | sandy_kc, it means he mispelled your name |
| 12:54.23 | lagolas | for eg: this doesn't work for me - http://socghop.appspot.com/org/show/google/gsoc2009/plan9 |
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| 12:54.48 | jaguarandi | well it works for me :S |
| 12:54.59 | ojwb | lagolas: what webbrowser? |
| 12:55.01 | Lennie | jaguarandi, it works here so I wonder why it doesnt for you |
| 12:55.03 | omniter | if you call me "onmiti" or something, you follow up with "omniter, even", to correct yourself. |
| 12:55.03 | Lennie | jaguarandi, what do you get? |
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| 12:55.16 | lagolas | firefox with vimperator add-on |
| 12:55.21 | jaguarandi | Show Organization for Plan 9 from Bell Labs ... |
| 12:55.27 | ojwb | me too |
| 12:55.31 | ojwb | (I get the page) |
| 12:55.49 | lagolas | well, it works on other systems, but not on mine. No idea by it behaving so |
| 12:55.51 | *** join/#gsoc LiangHF (i=LiangHF@119.48.37.94) |
| 12:57.10 | lagolas | looks like I am the only one being denied access to it :( |
| 12:57.10 | schumaml | lagolas: do you have access to anything with "google" in its url? |
| 12:57.10 | *** join/#gsoc Sisu (i=sisu@scene.fi) |
| 12:57.11 | lagolas | yes, I can search on google |
| 12:57.22 | lagolas | I can access gmail |
| 12:57.44 | Lennie | oops |
| 12:57.46 | schumaml | that does probably rule out a "google"-blocking trojan :) |
| 12:58.07 | Lennie | lagolas , what do you see when opening the page? |
| 12:58.17 | lagolas | it doesn't open |
| 12:58.25 | lagolas | its stuck loading it |
| 12:58.26 | Lennie | just nothing at all |
| 12:58.27 | Lennie | k |
| 12:59.05 | Lennie | can you visit: http://www.appspot.com ? |
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| 12:59.16 | *** join/#gsoc calebr (n=calebr@unaffiliated/calebr) |
| 12:59.31 | lagolas | yes I can visit that |
| 12:59.42 | *** join/#gsoc rohananil (n=rohanani@210.212.160.101) |
| 12:59.49 | Lennie | k interesting |
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| 13:23.58 | kblin | interesting |
| 13:24.15 | kblin | looks like the guy who stole my credit card number is a gamer... |
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| 13:25.28 | ice-man | hey ojwb tell kblin that this channel is only for gsoc |
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| 13:33.39 | NicDumZ | !next |
| 13:33.39 | socinfo | "next" is Student application period has now started, and runs until April 3rd at 19:00 UTC (12:00 PST) (countdown: http://tinyurl.com/dzlmpj ). Students, apply now at http://tinyurl.com/cznmrx. |
| 13:33.45 | omniter | ice-man, kblin didn't ask for help regarding a completely irrelevant topic. chatting in here's perfectly fine. |
| 13:34.10 | ice-man | that is a nonsense |
| 13:34.20 | danderson | also, bringing out the attitude is a really bad idea |
| 13:34.23 | *** join/#gsoc cibolofeo2 (n=MPerez@67.79.248.226) |
| 13:34.25 | danderson | it makes you look like an asshole |
| 13:34.31 | omniter | ^ |
| 13:34.35 | ice-man | that is true |
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| 13:35.57 | kblin | ice-man: I'm very sorry for all the interesting conversations I disrupted |
| 13:36.05 | straydawg | :) |
| 13:36.20 | ice-man | kblin i dont have a problem with that |
| 13:36.27 | ice-man | others have |
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| 13:36.45 | omniter | ice-man, i just explained why nobody has a problem with it... |
| 13:37.06 | kblin | oh well, let's drop it |
| 13:37.17 | omniter | agreed |
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| 13:37.31 | kblin | gets back to real work |
| 13:38.00 | Ownatik | wow |
| 13:38.09 | Ownatik | gsoc is TIGHT STUFF |
| 13:38.14 | Ownatik | I wanna get in NOW |
| 13:38.22 | omniter | Ownatik, did you apply? |
| 13:38.26 | antarus | is it that early? :p |
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| 13:38.40 | summatusmentis | antarus: early? |
| 13:38.42 | Ownatik | omniter, not yet, but I surely will |
| 13:38.53 | omniter | Ownatik, get on it. =) |
| 13:38.54 | AlekSi | heh |
| 13:39.00 | orirawlings | yeah, i can't wait either |
| 13:39.04 | orirawlings | i hope i get accepted |
| 13:39.06 | omniter | which org you have in mind, Ownatik? |
| 13:39.14 | omniter | actually, everyone, which orgs? |
| 13:39.29 | Ownatik | Hmmm I don't know yet I just had a quick glance at the list |
| 13:39.29 | orirawlings | natural user interface group |
| 13:39.46 | Ownatik | will look at it when I come back from class, got to go now |
| 13:39.49 | Ownatik | see you everyone! |
| 13:39.58 | AlekSi | just kde |
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| 13:42.45 | Traveler9 | hi |
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| 13:42.56 | Traveler9 | any mentors here would like to discuss about possible projects? |
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| 13:43.20 | spectie | hey Traveler9 |
| 13:43.26 | Traveler9 | hi spectie |
| 13:43.30 | uzytkownik | Traveler: Try the channel of project |
| 13:43.34 | Chainsaw | Traveler9: There are many mentors here. It would help to have an idea of what you're looking for. |
| 13:43.39 | spectie | Traveler9, which project are you interested in? |
| 13:43.41 | Chainsaw | Traveler9: Are you looking to code in C? |
| 13:43.41 | spectie | or which area ? |
| 13:43.59 | uzytkownik | !orgbylang |
| 13:43.59 | socinfo | "orgbylang" is 2009 list is work in progress: http://delicious.com/gsoc2009/bundle:Languages |
| 13:43.59 | Traveler9 | c++,c,embedded,php,javascript,tk, |
| 13:44.06 | Traveler9 | yes Chainsaw |
| 13:44.26 | orirawlings | did you look at the org list? |
| 13:44.37 | Traveler9 | i did. |
| 13:44.38 | Chainsaw | Traveler9: Do see uzytkownik's list as well, but perhaps you want to take a look at our ideas: http://www.atheme.org/wiki/atheme-project/SummerOfCodeIdeas |
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| 13:45.10 | Traveler9 | i sent emails to potential org. they refer me here or their channels for furthermore discussion before submitting the application |
| 13:45.33 | orirawlings | i picked out an organization or two from the list that sounded interesting and did research about them |
| 13:45.46 | orirawlings | i then went and talked to them directly about project ideas |
| 13:45.57 | orirawlings | either in their chan or on their forums |
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| 13:50.59 | uzytkownik | Hello. When and where do I need to send a proof of being student? It is in my native language so it needs to be a) traslated by accredited translator b) translated c) not translated at all (I think it is b) but I prefere to ask) |
| 13:51.18 | Traveler9 | student id should be engough i think |
| 13:51.20 | smtms | uzytkownik, you need this proof only if you get accepted |
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| 13:51.27 | Mek | and afaik it doesn't need to be translated |
| 13:51.36 | smtms | uzytkownik, when you get accepted, you will receive instructions |
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| 13:52.03 | smtms | uzytkownik, it's c) |
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| 13:52.38 | uzytkownik | smtms: Anyway I prefer to have a "documentation" in advance. Better do today what you have to do tomorrow |
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| 13:53.12 | smtms | uzytkownik, have you finished your GSoC project already? :-) |
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| 13:54.12 | zounds | !next |
| 13:54.12 | socinfo | "next" is Student application period has now started, and runs until April 3rd at 19:00 UTC (12:00 PST) (countdown: http://tinyurl.com/dzlmpj ). Students, apply now at http://tinyurl.com/cznmrx. |
| 13:54.33 | uzytkownik | smtms: No :-) . But getting proof took me a minute as I get it today when I prolonged my student ID card |
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| 14:02.03 | zounds | !log |
| 14:02.03 | socinfo | Error: access denied (owner). |
| 14:02.24 | zounds | ah, I was hoping that would tell me where the log of the channel is stored |
| 14:02.36 | spectie | !logs |
| 14:02.37 | socinfo | "logs" is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc |
| 14:02.37 | Lennie | http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc |
| 14:02.37 | straszheim | niiice |
| 14:02.42 | straszheim | !shutdown -r now |
| 14:02.42 | socinfo | Error: "shutdown" is not a valid command. |
| 14:02.46 | straszheim | ;) |
| 14:02.58 | Lennie | !42 |
| 14:03.00 | socinfo | Error: "42" is not a valid command. |
| 14:03.01 | Lennie | lame :( |
| 14:03.02 | zounds | ah, thanks |
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| 14:04.31 | Ownatik | Hi, I'd like to know, when applyhing for a project, is it necessary to have experience in the domain or the mentor will carefully explain how stuff works and everything to help you get started |
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| 14:04.43 | zounds | hm, those are less searchable than I would have hoped |
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| 14:05.18 | zounds | does anyone know of any example student applications? |
| 14:05.40 | spectie | zounds, http://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Talk:Google_Summer_of_Code/Application_2009 |
| 14:05.46 | spectie | see on the right |
| 14:06.10 | zounds | spectie: cool, thanks |
| 14:06.24 | Traveler9 | any web development with php,ajax,etc and MFC,OPENGL,GUI development & tcl/tk tool development mentors here? |
| 14:06.29 | Traveler9 | i'ma potential student |
| 14:06.50 | hypa7ia | !anyone |
| 14:06.51 | socinfo | "anyone" is Instead of looking for mentors from specific projects here, you will likely get much better results by speaking to that mentoring organization themselves. You can find the org's contact info by clicking on their name in the list at: http://socghop.appspot.com/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2009 |
| 14:06.59 | hypa7ia | Traveler9: read that ^^ |
| 14:07.06 | Lennie | !orgbylang |
| 14:07.07 | socinfo | "orgbylang" is 2009 list is work in progress: http://delicious.com/gsoc2009/bundle:Languages |
| 14:07.11 | Lennie | also interesting :) |
| 14:07.28 | Lennie | who runs that list btw? |
| 14:07.33 | Lennie | I need something updated :) |
| 14:07.56 | Mek | the username/password for that list was sent to the mentors list |
| 14:08.17 | Lennie | I should look it up then :) |
| 14:08.49 | Lennie | thanks Mek |
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| 14:10.51 | zounds | !timeline |
| 14:10.51 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/timeline |
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| 14:14.50 | sea-gul1 | what's the "name on documents"? |
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| 14:15.08 | Traveler9 | any mentor from wxwidgets?geeklog? i found interesting projects to discuss with |
| 14:15.21 | summatusmentis | !anyone |
| 14:15.22 | socinfo | "anyone" is Instead of looking for mentors from specific projects here, you will likely get much better results by speaking to that mentoring organization themselves. You can find the org's contact info by clicking on their name in the list at: http://socghop.appspot.com/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2009 |
| 14:15.28 | ashishpaliwal | any mentor from apache ?? |
| 14:15.44 | Lennie | sea-gul1, in some cultures names are written as the Builder, Bob |
| 14:15.54 | Lennie | instead of Bob the Builder like we do here in The Netherlands |
| 14:15.55 | hypa7ia | ashishpaliwal, Traveler9: please read the "anyone" text above |
| 14:16.11 | Lennie | sea-gul1, the name on documents is used for stuff like award certificates |
| 14:16.30 | sea-gul1 | thanks for explanation! |
| 14:16.31 | Lennie | sea-gul1, on which we can print your name in any unicode character :) |
| 14:18.11 | Lennie | sea-gul1, so chinese people can have their "chinese" name on it |
| 14:18.11 | Lennie | sea-gul1, yw |
| 14:18.11 | sea-gul1 | why is it needed? |
| 14:18.27 | sea-gul1 | ok |
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| 14:26.40 | Phrozn2 | no ops. parrty |
| 14:26.40 | sea-gul1 | what happened? |
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| 14:26.40 | maruel | sea-gul1: http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=netsplit |
| 14:26.40 | maruel | don't worry, we'll come back to them soon (hopefully) |
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| 15:48.44 | *** topic/#gsoc is Students, apply now! http://tinyurl.com/cznmrx - Help Needed with Melange Testing http://tinyurl.com/testmelange - Read the GSoC 2009 Site User's Guide http://tinyurl.com/gsoc09userguide - Updated Flyers & Program Presentations now the Wiki - Upload your screen casts, etc. to our YouTube Channel (details on mentors and students list) - This channel is logged at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc |
| 15:49.14 | Landon | summatusmentis: lusting after these work machines atm |
| 15:49.17 | p_l|backup | jbailey: I heard the most secure way of air travel in US is with an unloaded gun in your checked baggage, as they can't fuckup your stuff :) |
| 15:49.18 | Landon | I want to smuggle one out :P |
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| 15:49.29 | Landon | core i7 and a 80 gig intel SSD drive |
| 15:50.08 | jbailey | p_l|backup, Eh, no. That's a fast way to go to jail. Firearms have to be declared and travel in a separate special suitcase which is locked and handled specifically by a TSA official. |
| 15:51.14 | p_l|backup | jbailey: That's what I'm talking about |
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| 15:57.00 | summatusmentis | Landon: dang... |
| 15:57.26 | scorche|sh | jbailey: afaik, it doesnt need to be separate... |
| 15:57.27 | jbailey | scorche|sh, I'm not in the habit of travelling with guns, but I gathered that it wasn't checked through the regular process. |
| 15:57.27 | Landon | it needs to be in a locked case though |
| 15:57.27 | Landon | iirc |
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| 15:57.27 | p_l|backup | jbailey: afaik it 1) doesn't have to be separate 2) the shift supervisor has to supervise the check in your presence (and you can use a locked case - normally they destroy the case if it's locked) |
| 15:57.27 | Landon | I would assume normally they ask for the key first :P |
| 15:57.27 | scorche|sh | jbailey: it isnt, but the point is, if you place it in your baggage, you are allowed to lock your baggage and TSA cant touch it without you there in front of it |
| 15:57.30 | p_l|backup | Landon: They don't ask, as normally the check isn't conducted anywhere near you. They simply pry it open |
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| 15:58.40 | p_l|backup | Landon: Oh, and forget about transferring anything weirder without a gun near it. Even if it has disassembly instruction, they'll do it the other way, cause the instructions might set them the bomb ;-) |
| 15:58.40 | Landon | We recommend that you provide the key or combination to the security officer if he or she needs to open the container. You should remain present during screening to take the key back after the container is cleared. |
| 15:59.00 | Landon | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:59.36 | p_l|backup | Landon: Reasonable contact means "aww, just pry it open" |
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| 15:59.57 | p_l|backup | unless you have a gun in it :P |
| 16:00.14 | Landon | well |
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| 17:32.41 | *** topic/#gsoc is Students, apply now! http://tinyurl.com/cznmrx - Help Needed with Melange Testing http://tinyurl.com/testmelange - Read the GSoC 2009 Site User's Guide http://tinyurl.com/gsoc09userguide - Updated Flyers & Program Presentations now the Wiki - Upload your screen casts, etc. to our YouTube Channel (details on mentors and students list) - This channel is logged at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc |
| 17:32.41 | summatusmentis | if you're accepted, and pull out, that's a slot that could've been given to someone else, but wasn't |
| 17:32.41 | eggnogg | Okay. I'm supposed to get a call back within a few days, but I'd like to have something to do if they say no :D |
| 17:32.48 | summatusmentis | oh, we're talking about before applications |
| 17:32.59 | antarus | right, sorry |
| 17:33.00 | summatusmentis | s/applications/acceptance/ |
| 17:33.13 | antarus | if you commit to doing soc and then quit for a better opportunity |
| 17:33.18 | summatusmentis | then yes :) |
| 17:33.19 | antarus | I would say good for you, but still a dick move ;) |
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| 17:33.23 | p_l|backup | is going to write himself in credits for current groups assignment as "Code Monkey on crack&coffeine" |
| 17:33.39 | summatusmentis | antarus: yeah, just kinda not cool |
| 17:33.48 | eggnogg | yeah. But I can submit an application and say no if I'm notified of acceptance and the spot is given to somebody else? |
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| 17:33.53 | antarus | eggnogg: yes |
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| 17:33.59 | eggnogg | wonderful. Thanks |
| 17:34.28 | ritz | catfish: thanx |
| 17:34.49 | cylmor | just to be sure, is it possible to apply to different projects inside one mentoring organization? |
| 17:34.53 | summatusmentis | eggnogg: that said, might be most fair to your org to keep them updated |
| 17:34.56 | Catfish_Man | cylmor: yes |
| 17:34.56 | antarus | cylmor: yes |
| 17:34.58 | mwilkes|phone | evenin all |
| 17:35.05 | Catfish_Man | hi mwilkes |
| 17:35.11 | summatusmentis | hi mwilkes|phone |
| 17:35.12 | cylmor | thank you Catfish_Man and antarus :) |
| 17:35.20 | summatusmentis | rub it in some more that you have an awesome phone :) |
| 17:35.23 | eggnogg | summatusmentis: As in to inform them before they begin delivering acceptances that I've taken a different opportunity? |
| 17:35.23 | cylmor | i couldn't find it in the FAQ |
| 17:35.38 | summatusmentis | eggnogg: if you've taken a different opportunity, yes |
| 17:35.44 | summatusmentis | !faq |
| 17:35.44 | socinfo | "faq" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/faqs |
| 17:35.47 | summatusmentis | cylmor: ^^ |
| 17:36.30 | mwilkes|phone | summatusmentis: Most phones have irc clients, I'm just bored on a train |
| 17:36.52 | summatusmentis | mwilkes|phone: heh. Palm OS doesn't, that I've found |
| 17:36.56 | summatusmentis | but palm os is OLD |
| 17:38.03 | mwilkes|phone | summatusmentis: really? palm is easy to code for and the irc protocol is simple |
| 17:38.17 | mwilkes|phone | make one! |
| 17:38.20 | summatusmentis | not that I've found (havne't looked really) |
| 17:38.23 | summatusmentis | also, no time :) |
| 17:38.32 | eggnogg | one of my friends found a client. He showed me. Can't remember the name |
| 17:38.40 | eggnogg | but it does exist |
| 17:38.50 | schumaml | http://members.tripod.com/~hokamoto/PalmIRC.html |
| 17:39.00 | mwilkes|phone | :) |
| 17:39.01 | summatusmentis | tripod? :-D |
| 17:39.11 | schumaml | most obvious search term |
| 17:39.12 | mwilkes|phone | i used to ssh from my palms |
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| 17:39.23 | dho_plan9 | oh yeah? I ssh from my forehead. |
| 17:39.28 | summatusmentis | mwilkes|phone: actually that I can do |
| 17:39.41 | summatusmentis | I've done screen w/ irssi before on the centro |
| 17:39.46 | summatusmentis | screen is tiny |
| 17:39.59 | mwilkes|phone | had a IIIe, an m505 and another one that I forget |
| 17:40.10 | mwilkes|phone | tungsten t3 maybe? |
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| 17:54.02 | ritz | hi |
| 17:54.21 | ritz | was just wondering which address should i fill up in my registration form |
| 17:54.33 | ritz | my permanent residence |
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| 17:54.43 | ritz | or my college/hostel address |
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| 17:55.00 | Landon | I would put an address that you can receive mail at over the summer |
| 17:55.16 | ajuonline | where you want the Money sent. :D |
| 17:55.35 | ritz | whats the purpose of shipping address then |
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| 17:55.41 | Landon | ooh |
| 17:55.44 | ritz | though i got the answer |
| 17:55.51 | Landon | yeah, I guess use whatever you want |
| 17:55.54 | Landon | it's probably for the map then |
| 17:56.09 | ritz | thanx |
| 17:56.17 | ajuonline | shipping - where you want stuff delivered - money, t-shirt wtc. |
| 17:56.18 | nabith | I would like to add , that in the address slot you fill up the address where you are going to reside in the summers |
| 17:56.34 | ritz | that is not fixed yet :) |
| 17:56.35 | ajuonline | nabith: yeah, that has to be your "Shipping Address" |
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| 17:57.33 | ritz | i think i shud make it the address where atleast someone wud be there on my behalf |
| 17:57.35 | ajuonline | hails EllenKo |
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| 17:58.53 | nabith | ajouonline: i think it would be better that shipping address slot be filled with the permanent address |
| 17:59.12 | ritz | yes...i agree |
| 17:59.34 | devvrat | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:59.47 | Landon | spaced |
| 18:00.07 | ajuonline | nabith: depends on what you want :) |
| 18:00.40 | ajuonline | i stay away from my permanent address, so i put my shipping address as my school address and get the stuff. |
| 18:01.20 | ritz | i don't think i'll stay in my school during the summers |
| 18:01.53 | devvrat | ya |
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| 18:02.01 | ritz | so that's rightly said then "depends on what you want" |
| 18:02.02 | ritz | :) |
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| 18:03.29 | nabith | :-) |
| 18:03.32 | ajuonline | shipping - means - where you want things shipped. |
| 18:03.40 | ajuonline | pretty much self explanotary |
| 18:04.08 | lh | ajuonline: how is sahana conf? |
| 18:04.43 | ajuonline | lh: conference ended awesomely :) we had a BarCamp today. kool action :) |
| 18:04.56 | ajuonline | all domain experts and developers meeting face2face for the first time. |
| 18:05.07 | lh | ajuonline: cool! |
| 18:05.30 | ajuonline | i mean, the new developers, of course the core team have been a part of deployments, so they have met the domain guys already a lot of times |
| 18:05.34 | ajuonline | but fun for us, newbies ;) |
| 18:05.58 | Landon | is in your internets, transferring 8 gig files |
| 18:06.09 | ajuonline | oO |
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| 18:06.21 | Landon | 46MB/s ! |
| 18:06.23 | homunq | We have two people applying for different parts of the same idea. There is a small amount of overlap |
| 18:06.57 | homunq | One idea is that they both do the overlap in the first 1-2 weeks, then choose which person's version to use. |
| 18:07.01 | ajuonline | collaboration - is fine and encouraged |
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| 18:07.20 | homunq | It's redundant, so that if one flakes out, the other can continue |
| 18:07.37 | ajuonline | both have to complete their scope of the work |
| 18:08.07 | homunq | but it means that one person might end up submitting something finally which is only 85% theirs |
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| 18:08.18 | ritz | are you a mentor homunq? |
| 18:08.22 | homunq | although the other 15% they would have done, just not used in their final version. |
| 18:08.28 | homunq | ritz: mentor and admin. |
| 18:08.29 | ajuonline | what about the other person? |
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| 18:08.53 | ritz | actually it happened with me as an applicant :) |
| 18:09.06 | homunq | person A plans to do 1,3,5,7,9 |
| 18:09.10 | ritz | i'm not sure if i will get the project |
| 18:09.15 | homunq | person B plans to do 1,2,4,6,8 |
| 18:09.47 | homunq | so in the first week, A does 1 and B does 1' |
| 18:09.53 | homunq | then they choose 1' |
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| 18:10.35 | homunq | and at the end A submits 1', 3,5,7,9 as final product, and 1 as a discarded sideline. |
| 18:10.54 | ajuonline | homunq: i *think* it should be fine. |
| 18:10.59 | ajuonline | but thats my personal opinion |
| 18:11.10 | homunq | lh? opinions? |
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| 18:11.15 | hwked_ | !orgs |
| 18:11.16 | socinfo | "orgs" is http://socghop.appspot.com/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2009 |
| 18:11.21 | lh | homunq: on the phone can pay attetnion later |
| 18:11.23 | hwked_ | !next |
| 18:11.23 | socinfo | "next" is Student application period has now started, and runs until April 3rd at 19:00 UTC (12:00 PST) (countdown: http://tinyurl.com/dzlmpj ). Students, apply now at http://tinyurl.com/cznmrx. |
| 18:11.32 | homunq | ok, respond whenever. |
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| 18:15.51 | ritz | even i want some advice on that topic |
| 18:16.32 | danderson | parse error |
| 18:16.34 | danderson | what? |
| 18:16.40 | ritz | as an applicant, i suggested a topic and saw another applicant contributing his ideas to it |
| 18:16.50 | danderson | oh |
| 18:16.55 | danderson | well, cool |
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| 18:17.01 | ritz | and the real problem is that we both want to implement it using diff. technologies |
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| 18:17.55 | ritz | he has apparently worked on a similar solution using smthing else and i have done it differently |
| 18:18.35 | ritz | should i propose a co-work plan or spear ahead with my own set of plans? |
| 18:21.56 | vinc456 | ritz: i think you should talk with your org |
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| 18:22.18 | ritz | and i suppose homunq was referring to that only, what r the odds :) |
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| 18:23.19 | homunq | ritz: it sounds as if you should do it separately |
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| 18:23.38 | homunq | if there is no clean way to work together - if you want to use different technologies. |
| 18:23.46 | homunq | I think my situation is different. |
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| 18:26.02 | ritz | still trying to figure things out, thanx anyways |
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| 18:27.22 | thetopcoder | does any of you know when you're going to need our documents showing we are stundets ? |
| 18:27.31 | thetopcoder | *students |
| 18:27.38 | Landon | after you've been accepted if I remember |
| 18:28.01 | thetopcoder | yest that is what i understood too |
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| 18:28.46 | thetopcoder | and do you know what kind of docs do we need , because in some situations it may last some time before we can obtain them |
| 18:28.49 | thetopcoder | ? |
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| 18:29.04 | Landon | is it in the FAQ? |
| 18:29.23 | danderson | and don't panic, you'll have plenty of time to get the documents |
| 18:30.03 | thetopcoder | in the faq it says that we need transcripts or "other" documentation |
| 18:30.24 | Landon | transcripts should be relatively easy to get :) |
| 18:30.37 | Landon | (at least, at my school, we just go to the administrative building and they print on demand) |
| 18:30.48 | tntcoda | yer same here |
| 18:31.00 | summatusmentis | you can use a student id card |
| 18:31.12 | ritz | thats easy |
| 18:31.14 | thetopcoder | yes this is my case to but it may last 1 month |
| 18:31.29 | thetopcoder | *too |
| 18:32.05 | Landon | hah, .wine + scp = fail |
| 18:32.30 | Landon | scp was descending into the Z: directory somewhere in .wine, which is linked to / |
| 18:32.31 | Landon | :) |
| 18:32.37 | Landon | no wonder the transfer was taking so long |
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| 18:42.38 | Set_Killer | so i have to send my picture of my student book to google when i am aproved to the project? right? |
| 18:42.47 | danderson | !faq |
| 18:42.47 | socinfo | "faq" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/faqs |
| 18:43.05 | SRabbelier | Set_Killer: I assume "student book" is a mistranslation of "proof of enrollment"? |
| 18:43.17 | Set_Killer | yes |
| 18:43.24 | SRabbelier | Set_Killer: in that case, see the faq danderson posted |
| 18:43.32 | Set_Killer | thx |
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| 18:43.58 | SRabbelier | Set_Killer: btw, didn't you get msged by a bot to ask you to read the faq? |
| 18:44.06 | SRabbelier | s/ to ask you/asking you/ |
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| 18:44.31 | smtms | did he really mean botasking? |
| 18:44.35 | SRabbelier | :( |
| 18:44.37 | SRabbelier | sed fail |
| 18:44.52 | SRabbelier | s/to ask you/asking you/ |
| 18:44.56 | SRabbelier | that's what I meant :P |
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| 18:45.17 | Set_Killer | no, there was no bot |
| 18:45.40 | SRabbelier | durin42: where'd durinbot go? |
| 18:46.00 | durin42 | SRabbelier: he's flaky I guess |
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| 18:46.10 | durin42 | SRabbelier: I didn't even do anything, and there he is. |
| 18:46.14 | durin42 | SRabbelier: probably got dc'ed |
| 18:46.20 | SRabbelier | lol |
| 18:46.23 | SRabbelier | durinbot: status |
| 18:46.27 | SRabbelier | :( |
| 18:46.52 | SRabbelier | durin42: he doesn't even respond to help! :P |
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| 18:47.06 | durin42 | SRabbelier: heh, he's really really simple |
| 18:47.17 | *** join/#gsoc codestasher (n=silent@210.212.160.101) |
| 18:47.22 | durin42 | SRabbelier: the only thing he notices is when people join |
| 18:47.24 | SRabbelier | durin42: for shame |
| 18:47.26 | durin42 | query, etc all get ignored |
| 18:47.40 | Set_Killer | so the answer of my question is 'yes' ? |
| 18:48.26 | danderson | the answer to your question is in the FAQ |
| 18:48.51 | danderson | and we are not FAQ bots available to repeat it to everyone who comes in here asking a FAQ |
| 18:49.09 | ritz | !FAQ |
| 18:49.09 | socinfo | "FAQ" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/faqs |
| 18:49.14 | ritz | :) |
| 18:49.15 | Set_Killer | but there is not written, it writes: We will need to have all of this documentation on file before issuing payment to a particular student. |
| 18:49.29 | SRabbelier | Set_Killer: seems pretty clear to me :) |
| 18:49.44 | Set_Killer | so i have to send it before getting paymant? |
| 18:49.47 | Set_Killer | not now |
| 18:49.50 | Set_Killer | right? |
| 18:50.01 | SRabbelier | Set_Killer: have a little faith in yourself and save us some time |
| 18:50.08 | SRabbelier | Set_Killer: it's not nuclear pysics |
| 18:50.26 | Set_Killer | LoL :D |
| 18:50.28 | danderson | I'm going to go read the FAQ for you now |
| 18:50.36 | danderson | and so help me, if the answer is in there, I'm going to go ballistic. |
| 18:50.49 | Set_Killer | no, pls dont ;P |
| 18:51.05 | SRabbelier | Set_Killer: I'd run if I were you |
| 18:51.18 | SRabbelier | Set_Killer: while you still have legs to run with! |
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| 18:51.49 | Set_Killer | :D |
| 18:51.54 | danderson | you're lucky I saw the "don't" before I opened the FAQ URL |
| 18:52.09 | danderson | because I'm pretty certain that the exact answer is in there under a completely obvious question name |
| 18:52.46 | danderson | and the penalty for making me read the FAQ for you is not enjoyable |
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| 18:52.57 | Set_Killer | yay, i saved my legs ;P |
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| 18:53.06 | Set_Killer | danderson, sory |
| 18:53.15 | Set_Killer | !userguide |
| 18:53.15 | socinfo | "userguide" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/userguide |
| 18:53.30 | *** join/#gsoc sid0 (n=sid0@unaffiliated/sid0) |
| 18:53.49 | Sokol | !time |
| 18:53.49 | socinfo | "time" is http://tinyurl.com/dbxnmy |
| 18:54.13 | Sokol | !timeleft |
| 18:54.14 | socinfo | Error: "timeleft" is not a valid command. |
| 18:54.17 | danderson | !next |
| 18:54.17 | socinfo | "next" is Student application period has now started, and runs until April 3rd at 19:00 UTC (12:00 PST) (countdown: http://tinyurl.com/dzlmpj ). Students, apply now at http://tinyurl.com/cznmrx. |
| 18:54.24 | Sokol | ty |
| 18:54.39 | SRabbelier | !help |
| 18:54.39 | socinfo | "help" is see !faq, !advice and !wiki |
| 18:54.43 | SRabbelier | mhhh |
| 18:54.50 | SRabbelier | socinfo: forget help |
| 18:54.50 | socinfo | The operation succeeded. |
| 18:55.08 | SRabbelier | socinfo: learn help as see !next, !faq, !advice and !wiki |
| 18:55.08 | socinfo | The operation succeeded. |
| 18:55.13 | SRabbelier | !help |
| 18:55.13 | socinfo | "help" is see !next, !faq, !advice and !wiki |
| 18:55.24 | Sokol | socinfo: forget time |
| 18:55.24 | socinfo | The operation succeeded. |
| 18:55.28 | SRabbelier | assuming we keep !next up to date, we might as well |
| 18:55.37 | SRabbelier | Sokol: why'd you do that for? |
| 18:56.26 | homunq | !learn time as http://tinyurl.com/dbxnmy |
| 18:56.26 | socinfo | The operation succeeded. |
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| 18:56.46 | homunq | I'm not going to edit war, but I think that one is useful for the clueless. |
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| 18:56.51 | danderson | that factoid is for the many, many <censored> who cannot seem to find timezone conversion tools when deadlines approach |
| 18:56.55 | SRabbelier | homunq: indeed :) |
| 18:57.06 | danderson | or read the time for that matter |
| 18:57.15 | *** join/#gsoc orirawlings (n=orirawli@dhcp45.ssv2.iit.edu) |
| 18:57.17 | danderson | or THINK FOR THEMSELVES |
| 18:57.25 | danderson | (can you tell this is getting to me?) |
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| 18:57.36 | SRabbelier | danderson: I think it's time for you to take a well deserved break from #gsoc |
| 18:57.56 | SRabbelier | danderson: go enjoy dinner ;) |
| 18:58.43 | homunq | danderson: for a little while, I was getting more stressed by spam/cluelessness the larger the channel got - "think how many other people have to read this $#!*" - but I realized that was silly, so I chilled out. |
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| 19:03.18 | danderson | homunq: I try to rationalize, but there's only so much stupid my internal defenses can take :P |
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| 19:04.07 | homunq | danderson: I hear that beer helps with that :) |
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| 19:04.50 | danderson | homunq: beer at work is permitted on friday only, TGIF and all that :P |
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| 19:05.00 | danderson | and coding drunk doesn't give good results anyway |
| 19:05.08 | *** join/#gsoc phytos (n=phytos@dinauz.org) |
| 19:05.21 | homunq | nor does coding and lurking #gsoc |
| 19:05.41 | Catfish_Man | actually that gives quite good results :) |
| 19:05.41 | Giant-Sheep | what, the ballmer peak isn't true? that's like finding out there's no santa... |
| 19:05.55 | danderson | it's probably true |
| 19:06.00 | danderson | just too hard to reach |
| 19:06.06 | danderson | the peak is too narrow |
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| 19:07.05 | lh | antarus: known issue, fix is in afaik, needs to be pushed (re: ascii), it is also written up in the user |
| 19:07.07 | lh | guide |
| 19:07.10 | Traveler0 | any wxwidget,geeklog and other web development mentors? |
| 19:07.25 | danderson | !anyone |
| 19:07.25 | socinfo | "anyone" is Instead of looking for mentors from specific projects here, you will likely get much better results by speaking to that mentoring organization themselves. You can find the org's contact info by clicking on their name in the list at: http://socghop.appspot.com/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2009 |
| 19:07.31 | SRabbelier | chuckles and thinks of Samuel Vimes who used to be in a semi-permanent state of drunk |
| 19:07.55 | SRabbelier | Lhwhat is? |
| 19:07.57 | SRabbelier | lh: what is? |
| 19:08.11 | danderson | WELL MY BLOODY PLEASURE |
| 19:08.24 | danderson | *expletive deleted* |
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| 19:09.05 | SRabbelier | danderson: 0.o |
| 19:09.48 | lh | homunq: that sounds a bit awkward to me. a little duplication of effort is par for the course but it sounds like a group project to me, which we don't allow because it can make evaluating one person's work difficult or introduce dependencies (that mean one student doesn't get to do their work because they are blocked on someone else) |
| 19:09.58 | lh | sounds like you have solved the dependency problem, but it still seems a bit wierd to me |
| 19:10.23 | lh | danderson: i am sorry the RTFM questions are getting to you dear |
| 19:10.48 | homunq | lh: the interweaved numbers were meaningless. After week 2, each would go their own merry way. |
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| 19:12.22 | homunq | lh: we will take your opinion into consideration, but if the students come up with a clear and feasible plan, we might allow this. We won't try to foment it any more than I already did with the initial suggestion. |
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| 19:14.42 | homunq | danderson: thanks btw, for all you do, for all you are. |
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| 19:15.42 | danderson | homunq: anything to serve, though I do need to figure out how to get less affected by the stupid |
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| 19:15.59 | danderson | but the history of my case justifies it, I believe. |
| 19:16.03 | danderson | I could tell you stories. |
| 19:16.22 | danderson | I've seen the bottom of the internet barrel. You don't want to hear those stories. |
| 19:16.27 | danderson | anyway :P |
| 19:17.04 | SRabbelier | danderson: I'm sure there/s worse on 4chan :P |
| 19:17.28 | homunq | he was an ancient internaut, he stoppeth 1 of 3. |
| 19:17.35 | danderson | but at least they have the good taste to remain confined to retardsville |
| 19:17.51 | danderson | which is clearly marked as an area prone to cause brain damage |
| 19:17.59 | danderson | the rest of them roam the interwebs freely |
| 19:18.16 | danderson | attacking unsuspecting surfers everywhere in dark IRC channels in the wee hours of the morning |
| 19:18.34 | SRabbelier | danderson: getting poetic are we :P |
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| 19:21.10 | srna | help |
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| 19:21.25 | SRabbelier | !ask |
| 19:21.25 | socinfo | Error: "ask" is not a valid command. |
| 19:21.30 | SRabbelier | well bugger |
| 19:21.37 | SRabbelier | srna: don't ask to ask, just ask |
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| 19:22.48 | danderson | !learn ask as Don't ask to ask, just ask. Meta-questions lead to meta-answers and wasted time. |
| 19:22.48 | socinfo | The operation succeeded. |
| 19:23.26 | SRabbelier | danderson: hehe, I think it was Catfish_Man that deleted it? |
| 19:24.41 | SRabbelier | just checked and confirmed |
| 19:25.14 | danderson | any idea why? |
| 19:25.21 | Catfish_Man | because it's two lines instead of one |
| 19:25.27 | Catfish_Man | your laziness is spamming my chat window :P |
| 19:25.29 | lh | homunq: i need to see the plan to see if google is ok with it. |
| 19:25.30 | Gurpartap | He ate it |
| 19:26.01 | srna | sorry guys, I wanted to write a command to nickserv, my fault |
| 19:26.09 | homunq | lh: no plan yet. I will convey that if one develops further. |
| 19:26.12 | danderson | Catfish_Man: it's that, or me highlighting you each time someone asks something with a frequently given reply :P |
| 19:26.20 | danderson | so that you can give them the reply :P |
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| 19:26.23 | homunq | mostly, we want to leave it to the students. |
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| 19:26.59 | SRabbelier | danderson: that's still 2 lines |
| 19:27.22 | lh | homunq: sounds good |
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| 19:27.42 | danderson | SRabbelier: indeed it is. I'm just explaining, in a silly way, that *I*'m not going to type those same answers over and over again |
| 19:27.53 | danderson | but that someone is going to have to if the bot doesn't do it |
| 19:27.59 | homunq | !hitler |
| 19:27.59 | socinfo | Error: "hitler" is not a valid command. |
| 19:28.04 | danderson | and machines are pretty good at storage and retrieval, so, why not? :P |
| 19:28.06 | SRabbelier | homunq: wtf? |
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| 19:28.22 | homunq | just trying to godwin this argument |
| 19:28.33 | SRabbelier | homunq: lol... I was going ot ask "couldn't wait for godwin"? |
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| 19:41.06 | SRabbelier | #faq |
| 19:42.11 | SRabbelier | ah, well that works |
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| 19:44.35 | kblin | #faq? |
| 19:44.45 | kblin | is that a faq channel? |
| 19:44.45 | SRabbelier | kblin: Please be so kind as to read the faq as it contains the answer to your question, it can be found at http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/faqs. |
| 19:44.54 | SRabbelier | kblin: aliassed that locally |
| 19:45.06 | chunmun | faq? |
| 19:45.09 | chunmun | !faq |
| 19:45.09 | socinfo | "faq" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/faqs |
| 19:45.16 | SRabbelier | kblin: figured it might be a little less blunt |
| 19:45.27 | Landon | don't we have 3 things pointing people to the FAQ now? :P |
| 19:45.27 | SRabbelier | kblin: plus, it expands the text before I send it, so I can prefix the user's nick |
| 19:45.38 | SRabbelier | Landon: afaik just !ask |
| 19:45.41 | SRabbelier | err |
| 19:45.41 | Landon | durinbot, SRabbelier, and socinfo |
| 19:45.43 | SRabbelier | just !faq |
| 19:45.45 | SRabbelier | fails :( |
| 19:45.54 | SRabbelier | kicks Landon in the behind |
| 19:45.57 | SRabbelier | Landon: meany |
| 19:46.02 | Landon | :P |
| 19:46.05 | SRabbelier | Landon: you excluded danderson! |
| 19:46.12 | SRabbelier | :P |
| 19:46.21 | kblin | hmm |
| 19:46.28 | kblin | goes to read the scrollback |
| 19:46.37 | danderson | I point at things that point at the faq |
| 19:46.47 | danderson | I'm a meta-pointer |
| 19:47.36 | t0ms | can sb send me sources.list from debian lenny please? |
| 19:48.06 | SRabbelier | t0ms: wrong channel |
| 19:48.22 | danderson | is going to pretend that didn't just happen |
| 19:48.23 | homunq | Landon and danderson |
| 19:48.30 | t0ms | SRabbelier: ups, srry |
| 19:48.32 | homunq | now I'm a meta-meta-pointer. |
| 19:49.07 | danderson | homunq: you run the risk of me segfaulting you :P |
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| 19:52.22 | kblin | sighs and goes back to writing a cool abstract for his talk proposal |
| 19:53.20 | z4chh | Is it alright if the abstract is like one sentence? |
| 19:53.42 | z4chh | it says max 500 chars...so i feel like i should write more hah |
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| 19:56.46 | homunq | z4chh: ask your org. |
| 19:59.50 | SRabbelier | !askyourorg |
| 19:59.50 | socinfo | "askyourorg" is You should ask the organization you are interested in applying as this varies per organization. |
| 19:59.52 | SRabbelier | that one? |
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| 20:00.40 | glaksmono | good afternoon SRabbelier |
| 20:01.51 | SRabbelier | glaksmono: heya |
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| 20:13.36 | kblin | darn |
| 20:14.11 | kblin | the signal/buzzword factor of my abstract is still a bit high |
| 20:14.31 | imbusy | how do you measure? |
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| 20:15.12 | Catfish_Man | kblin: ...wouldn't it be bad for it to be low? |
| 20:15.38 | kblin | Catfish_Man: depends |
| 20:15.47 | kblin | Catfish_Man: it's for an industry conference |
| 20:16.13 | kblin | Catfish_Man: the title of one of last year's keynotes was "the bits are in the clouds" |
| 20:16.22 | Catfish_Man | ⦠|
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| 20:18.18 | alpaca | as a reference to cloud computing? |
| 20:18.26 | kblin | yeah, of course |
| 20:18.51 | alpaca | i guess it wouldnt be anything else :P |
| 20:18.52 | kblin | but if manager types give keynotes about it, you know it's overhyped |
| 20:18.52 | borja | The number of cloud puns has gotten kinda ridiculous recently |
| 20:19.03 | borja | searches for particularly egregious example |
| 20:19.17 | alpaca | egregious, dude |
| 20:19.22 | uzytkownik | !timeline |
| 20:19.23 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/timeline |
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| 20:20.31 | borja | I can't find it right now, but there was this one article that was titled something like "FOOBAR: stratocumulos or cirronimbus?" (where FOOBAR was some sort of cloud-related software package) |
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| 20:20.45 | z4chh | my proposal isn't wordwrapping o_o |
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| 20:21.08 | borja | apparently the "pun" was that one of the clouds is higher that the other, so they were asking whether FOOBAR was something that would "fly high" |
| 20:21.42 | borja | does research that has recently been recategorized as "cloud" research, much to his chagrin |
| 20:22.13 | Catfish_Man | just title the talk "cumulonimbus. seriously, guys". When they walk in, arrange for them to be struck by lightning |
| 20:22.20 | Catfish_Man | when they complain, point to the name of the talk |
| 20:22.56 | borja | But then they'll just reply "See? Cloud Computing is the thunderstorm that's sweeping IT!" |
| 20:23.11 | Catfish_Man | then you zap 'em again |
| 20:23.17 | Catfish_Man | they'll learn quickly |
| 20:23.22 | borja | heh |
| 20:24.12 | SRabbelier | Catfish_Man: reminds me of an xkcd comic :P |
| 20:24.39 | kblin | hehe |
| 20:24.51 | kblin | I'm reminded of a simpsons episode |
| 20:25.16 | glaksmono | hi guys, any mentor around LA area? |
| 20:25.23 | pavelo | just finished reading xkcd (all of it :P) |
| 20:25.46 | kblin | pavelo: you obviously need to get into Open Source |
| 20:25.49 | kblin | so much free time |
| 20:25.59 | glaksmono | wow.. |
| 20:26.01 | pavelo | yep |
| 20:26.04 | alpaca | i dont find xkcd too funny anymore |
| 20:26.08 | alpaca | dinosaur comics ftw. |
| 20:26.10 | pavelo | maybe i should put that in my application |
| 20:26.15 | alpaca | even those have been downhill a little |
| 20:26.38 | glaksmono | wh00t |
| 20:26.45 | alpaca | xkcd is still funny from time to time though i supposed |
| 20:26.48 | pavelo | we'll you can't expect it to beat "sudo" on a daily basis |
| 20:26.51 | alpaca | no |
| 20:26.54 | alpaca | no you cant |
| 20:26.56 | alpaca | god i want that shirt |
| 20:27.19 | pavelo | i may just order it some day |
| 20:27.21 | SRabbelier | alpaca: buy it, it's cheap |
| 20:27.22 | borja | The "Stand back. I'm going to try science" is my favorite |
| 20:27.31 | alpaca | one of my favorites is the ballmer peak |
| 20:27.32 | Landon | borja: heh, I have that one |
| 20:27.35 | Landon | acted it out too |
| 20:27.36 | Landon | in chem lab |
| 20:27.37 | Landon | :P |
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| 20:27.43 | borja | Landon: awesome |
| 20:27.44 | alpaca | balmer? i suck at spelling. |
| 20:27.51 | Landon | my favorite was his talk @ google |
| 20:28.03 | alpaca | http://xkcd.com/323/ :D |
| 20:29.01 | glaksmono | interesting site |
| 20:29.14 | glaksmono | aw man, no one is in the LA area.. sigh.. |
| 20:29.57 | alpaca | glaksmono: just curious, why does it matter? |
| 20:30.11 | SRabbelier | glaksmono: the idea for Melange is to make it possible later on for you to find mentors in your general area :) |
| 20:30.20 | pavelo | "it works, bitches" is nice too, but I'm not sure i would want to wear it in public :P |
| 20:30.42 | SRabbelier | glaksmono: mentors, but also successful GSoC |
| 20:30.47 | SRabbelier | pavelo: sure you do |
| 20:31.12 | alpaca | i have a shirt that ends with ", bitches." |
| 20:31.27 | alpaca | actually, i think its just ", bitch." |
| 20:31.43 | pavelo | do you wear it? |
| 20:31.49 | alpaca | yep |
| 20:31.59 | alpaca | not to work, but yeah :P |
| 20:32.10 | pavelo | cool |
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| 20:35.33 | glaksmono | alpaca: cuz i'm holding a GSoC info talk tomo |
| 20:35.44 | glaksmono | alpaca: and i want to invite mentors or developers there.. would be great |
| 20:35.48 | alpaca | thats a good reason :) |
| 20:35.55 | glaksmono | yay..!! :P |
| 20:36.31 | glaksmono | SRabbelier: yup! |
| 20:36.42 | borja | glaksmono: did you tell lh about this? she can probably put you in touch with GSoC-ers in the area, although maybe not on such short notice |
| 20:36.48 | glaksmono | well, i've told my friend already, so far there's about 20+ people registered to the event tomo |
| 20:36.55 | glaksmono | so it would be great if anyone could also come tomo ;) |
| 20:36.57 | glaksmono | i got one mentor tomo |
| 20:37.01 | glaksmono | from Inkscape and OpenICC |
| 20:37.06 | SRabbelier | glaksmono: you shouldof pinged leslie earlier, so she could put you on the calender :) |
| 20:37.07 | glaksmono | well he mentored 2 orgs i think |
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| 20:37.22 | glaksmono | SRabbelier: i pinged her, and she sent it to the mentor's mailing list |
| 20:37.30 | SRabbelier | glaksmono: ok :) |
| 20:37.50 | glaksmono | SRabbelier: no one replied.. :( |
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| 20:38.45 | *** join/#gsoc mikm (n=lolWUT@unaffiliated/mikm) |
| 20:38.47 | kblin | glaksmono: even if I got a plane ticket right now I probaly couldn't make it to LA in time |
| 20:39.00 | glaksmono | it's tomorrow at 11:00AM - 1:00PM |
| 20:39.01 | glaksmono | :P |
| 20:39.08 | kblin | glaksmono: not with having to sign up with DHS 48h before the flight and all |
| 20:39.08 | glaksmono | where are you kblin |
| 20:39.15 | glaksmono | LOL!!! |
| 20:39.17 | kblin | southern germany |
| 20:39.18 | glaksmono | you're oversea |
| 20:39.25 | glaksmono | lol kk.. |
| 20:39.49 | kblin | I guess this applies for many other people as well |
| 20:39.58 | glaksmono | yay, many people outside of the U.S. |
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| 20:42.40 | SRabbelier | lol @ http://www.whitehouse.gov/openforquestions/ |
| 20:42.43 | SRabbelier | go through the questions |
| 20:43.01 | SRabbelier | there's so many in the top 10 that are about legalizing marijuana it's not even funny :P |
| 20:43.11 | Catfish_Man | has anyone asked "how do I shot web?" yet? |
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| 20:43.30 | mikm | SRabbelier: And Obama just blew them off |
| 20:43.32 | mikm | :/ |
| 20:43.39 | SRabbelier | the top 4 questions on "Financial Stability" are about legalizing marijuana |
| 20:44.10 | glaksmono | wow.. |
| 20:44.12 | glaksmono | this is so new |
| 20:44.14 | SRabbelier | mikm: oh, where at? |
| 20:44.17 | glaksmono | very nice |
| 20:44.21 | glaksmono | actually participate with your gov |
| 20:44.29 | SRabbelier | glaksmono: yup, Google Moderator ftw |
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| 20:44.37 | glaksmono | lol |
| 20:44.44 | SRabbelier | glaksmono: it's hosted by Google too |
| 20:44.51 | mikm | SRabbelier: At some recent town hall. He mentioned how many there were, laughed, and said it wasn't gonna happen |
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| 20:45.08 | SRabbelier | mikm: seriously? |
| 20:45.14 | mikm | Yeah |
| 20:45.16 | SRabbelier | mikm: epic fail :) |
| 20:45.22 | kblin | dunno |
| 20:45.32 | glaksmono | SRabbelier: really?? |
| 20:45.40 | glaksmono | SRabbelier: Google codes those stuff? |
| 20:45.41 | mikm | Obama is a corporate shill, so I'm not surprised |
| 20:45.41 | SRabbelier | glaksmono: yup, look at the source |
| 20:45.51 | SRabbelier | glaksmono: Google Moderator has been public for quite a while |
| 20:45.57 | kblin | I think that country has some bigger issues to fix other than to decide if they should legalize dope |
| 20:46.03 | mikm | Well, pretty much every politician is |
| 20:46.06 | glaksmono | SRabbelier: well, i could see YouTube there |
| 20:46.25 | glaksmono | haha.. well, i think if it's individual choice, what would you pick? |
| 20:46.29 | glaksmono | lol, he couldn't code it himself |
| 20:46.38 | mikm | kblin: You have a point, but legalization of pot affects more than just college students getting high |
| 20:46.45 | glaksmono | using open source would not be enough for "White House" |
| 20:46.56 | glaksmono | and those "National Security" |
| 20:47.03 | mikm | kblin: Our prisons/legal system is swamped with people charged with a victimless crime |
| 20:47.06 | *** part/#gsoc amitav (n=amitav@122.50.130.103) |
| 20:47.11 | SRabbelier | mikm: exactly |
| 20:47.38 | mikm | Also, hemp is d |
| 20:47.40 | mikm | er |
| 20:47.43 | kblin | mikm: well, as far as I know dope isn't technically legal in the netherlands |
| 20:47.44 | mikm | Hemp is very useful |
| 20:47.57 | SRabbelier | kblin: yes, but you don't get arested for it either ;) |
| 20:47.58 | mikm | But can't be legally grown |
| 20:48.03 | glaksmono | is Google moderator open source? |
| 20:48.17 | SRabbelier | kblin: and if you do you don't go to prison (there are exceptions ofcourse) |
| 20:48.26 | Erant | Softdrugs only, mind. |
| 20:48.27 | SRabbelier | glaksmono: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_moderator |
| 20:48.31 | kblin | mikm: you can grow thc-deficient strains, I guess |
| 20:48.38 | glaksmono | ah kk.. --> http://www.google.com/enterprise/marketplace/viewListing?productListingId=5143210+6088191711778981644 |
| 20:48.49 | mikm | kblin: not legally, in most places |
| 20:48.59 | kblin | ok, they could fix that |
| 20:49.01 | alpaca | kblin: I think that country has some bigger issues to fix other than to decide if they should legalize dope |
| 20:49.11 | alpaca | ^ im all for legalization, trust me, but that couldnt be more true. |
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| 20:49.20 | SRabbelier | kblin: fix what? |
| 20:49.33 | glaksmono | dank, this thing is so much faster than Melange |
| 20:49.36 | alpaca | i want pot to be legalized more than the next guy, but i hate that people think its important right now. because its not. |
| 20:49.46 | SRabbelier | glaksmono: that thing is running on real google infrastructure :P |
| 20:49.56 | glaksmono | so google apps is not on google infrastructure? |
| 20:49.58 | SRabbelier | glaksmono: not some proc and bandwith restricted boxes :P |
| 20:50.01 | kblin | SRabbelier: it's kind of pointless to outlaw a plant |
| 20:50.01 | glaksmono | "real" google infrastructure? |
| 20:50.07 | glaksmono | ah kk.. |
| 20:50.14 | glaksmono | hmm.. |
| 20:50.25 | glaksmono | would it run as fast if i move it in the local machine? |
| 20:50.26 | SRabbelier | glaksmono: AppEngine is running on Google infrastructure, just limited |
| 20:50.38 | glaksmono | i c.. |
| 20:50.42 | SRabbelier | glaksmono: it runs a lot faster locally, if that's what your'e asking |
| 20:50.44 | alpaca | and why would you ever want to grow a thc-deficient strain :X |
| 20:50.48 | glaksmono | yeah |
| 20:50.48 | SRabbelier | of course, locally doesn't scale |
| 20:51.13 | glaksmono | hmm.. kk.. |
| 20:51.21 | kblin | alpaca: two reasons... |
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| 20:51.35 | glaksmono | i was thinking about that too on my optimization apps :P |
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| 20:51.47 | alpaca | i was being semi-sarcastic :P |
| 20:51.51 | alpaca | but what are the two reasons? |
| 20:51.51 | kblin | alpaca: one is that hemp fibre is pretty good for high quality ropes and stuff |
| 20:51.55 | alpaca | yes |
| 20:52.02 | alpaca | i dont know what the 2nd would be, haha |
| 20:52.15 | kblin | alpaca: and the other is that it's fun to watch people steal it and try to get high on it |
| 20:52.22 | alpaca | hahahahahahaha |
| 20:52.23 | Erant | lol |
| 20:52.25 | alpaca | brilliant. |
| 20:52.33 | scorche | wonders if this is a suitable topic |
| 20:52.45 | alpaca | i was thinking the same thing but i went with it :X |
| 20:52.47 | alpaca | im done. |
| 20:52.58 | SRabbelier | kblin: lol indeed |
| 20:53.05 | SRabbelier | scorche: why not :P |
| 20:53.13 | SRabbelier | scorche: it's Melange related... :P |
| 20:53.19 | kblin | scorche: oh, btw, I'm happy about thinkpads again :) |
| 20:53.34 | scorche | doesnt want to ask why it is Melange related =P |
| 20:53.38 | scorche | kblin: \o/ |
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| 20:53.59 | SRabbelier | omg, in every category there's a question about legalizing it in the top 10, how sad is that? |
| 20:54.01 | kblin | scorche: I just spent one day using a different laptop, then I got mine back from repair |
| 20:54.33 | kblin | it's just not the same |
| 20:54.48 | SRabbelier | ~3m votes casted... that's like... one fifth of the Dutch population :P |
| 20:54.52 | SRabbelier | seems popular :P |
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| 20:55.37 | scorche | kblin: =) |
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| 20:56.17 | kblin | scorche: and the other box even is a lenovo design |
| 20:56.53 | scorche | kblin: those other lenovo stuffs?...they are all way too shiny for me |
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| 21:01.44 | kblin | scorche: I borrowed it so I had something to do on my day of travelling around in a train |
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| 21:04.41 | *** join/#gsoc Eduard_Munteanu (n=edi@79.115.193.214) |
| 21:04.48 | Eduard_Munteanu | Hi there. |
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| 21:05.50 | Eduard_Munteanu | Does every org get a minimum number of slots? I remember it was 2, right? |
| 21:06.13 | kblin | I guess so |
| 21:06.21 | summatusmentis | I think that's what it was last year? |
| 21:06.23 | kblin | unless the org asks for less |
| 21:06.32 | Eduard_Munteanu | kblin, thanks. |
| 21:07.01 | kblin | there's a page in melange explaining the slot allocations |
| 21:07.03 | *** part/#gsoc sandy_kc (n=sandeep@210.212.8.60) |
| 21:07.14 | summatusmentis | !allocation |
| 21:07.14 | socinfo | Error: "allocation" is not a valid command. |
| 21:07.15 | Eduard_Munteanu | kblin, will take a peek. |
| 21:07.17 | summatusmentis | !slots |
| 21:07.17 | socinfo | "slots" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/studentallocations |
| 21:07.22 | Eduard_Munteanu | summatusmentis, thanks. |
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| 21:07.25 | summatusmentis | sure thing |
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| 21:15.00 | Eduard_Munteanu | Damn, 2.6.29 hanged up... or maybe it's just the nvidia drivers. |
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| 21:19.21 | Eduard_Munteanu | Did all/many orgs post wrapup reports for 2008? I only see at most 10. |
| 21:19.34 | SRabbelier | Eduard_Munteanu: not all/a lot did |
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| 21:20.44 | Eduard_Munteanu | SRabbelier, heh, I see. |
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| 21:27.15 | kblin | Eduard_Munteanu: I think I'm guilty of not writing one for my orgs |
| 21:27.30 | kblin | I'm a coder, not a poet, dammit :) |
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| 21:29.15 | glaksmono | any last mentors who would like to give a talk tomo at the GSoC 2009 InfoTalk event at Cal State L.A.? feel free to ping me ;) |
| 21:29.27 | glaksmono | or developers.. |
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| 21:29.36 | glaksmono | well, and/or developers |
| 21:29.39 | Eduard_Munteanu | kblin, yeah, last year I was mentored by LF and I was kinda curious if/how they reviewed my work. |
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| 21:29.54 | glaksmono | Eduard_Munteanu: are you in the LA area? |
| 21:30.01 | glaksmono | oops, nvm.. |
| 21:30.03 | glaksmono | :P |
| 21:30.11 | Eduard_Munteanu | glaksmono, I was mentored, not a mentor :) |
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| 21:31.42 | mmu_man | plop |
| 21:32.20 | mmu_man | does code.google.com have buildfarm or ssh accounts alike ? |
| 21:32.20 | mmu_man | just checking |
| 21:32.26 | mmu_man | I can't find the list of provided tools there, as odd as it seems |
| 21:32.36 | kblin | Eduard_Munteanu: hm, I wouldn't have discussed that sort of thing in a wrap-up, I guess |
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| 21:33.05 | Eduard_Munteanu | kblin, well, of course not in detail. But you would've mentioned whether a project went well. |
| 21:33.19 | SRabbelier | mmu_man: nope |
| 21:34.15 | kblin | Eduard_Munteanu: I hope I made my opinions about the project clear to my student directly |
| 21:34.40 | glaksmono | Eduard_Munteanu: that's ok.. :P |
| 21:34.48 | glaksmono | Eduard_Munteanu: are you still involved? |
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| 21:35.05 | Eduard_Munteanu | kblin, that was true in my case also. But maybe other people from that org had opinions. |
| 21:35.30 | Eduard_Munteanu | glaksmono, yes, just sent a patch series a couple of days ago. |
| 21:35.38 | mmu_man | SRabbelier it didn't seem obvious but I suppose since I didn't find anything... :) |
| 21:36.04 | mmu_man | I'm checking a list of possible remote servers usable for SoC students for projects who don't have such |
| 21:36.14 | SRabbelier | mmu_man: they only offer svn, the wiki, issue tracker, and a downloads area |
| 21:36.19 | mmu_man | small sized project can likely use soething like freeshell.org |
| 21:37.00 | mmu_man | yep, it sounds obvious when looking at tabs, but IIRC sourceforge or berlios had more non evident options |
| 21:37.35 | mmu_man | I'm considering getting a dedicated server like http://www.dedibox.fr/ for some months to help |
| 21:38.04 | mmu_man | yes berlios has foundries http://developer.berlios.de/about_foundries.php |
| 21:38.08 | Eduard_Munteanu | SRabbelier, I can't see why big hosters like Google Code or SF don't offer Git repos and insist on providing only CVS/SVN. |
| 21:38.26 | Lennie | Eduard_Munteanu, SRabbelier couldn't agree more ofcourse :D |
| 21:38.32 | Catfish_Man | Eduard_Munteanu: Google has a custom svn backend built on BigTable |
| 21:38.35 | mmu_man | though the intend was to allow students to build interactively from a know environment without requiring large own hw |
| 21:38.54 | SRabbelier | Eduard_Munteanu: Hg support is coming up on code.google.com |
| 21:38.59 | SRabbelier | Eduard_Munteanu: and git support is already there on SF |
| 21:39.23 | mmu_man | can't make sense out of git, at least not looking at the web interface, always spending 10min to get just the dir listing for head |
| 21:39.34 | Eduard_Munteanu | SRabbelier, whoa, it means I haven't stopped by SF in a while, gotta check it. |
| 21:39.53 | SMParrish | Evening all, My question of the day is can Community College students participate in GSOC? |
| 21:39.53 | SRabbelier | mmu_man: heh, I guess you need to be brain-damaged in the right way; I've never had any problems with that :) |
| 21:39.57 | SRabbelier | Eduard_Munteanu: you should |
| 21:40.09 | SRabbelier | SMParrish: Please be so kind as to read the faq as it contains the answer to your question, it can be found at http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/faqs. |
| 21:40.16 | mmu_man | hg is nice, portable python, like 4 lines to port to BeOS (changing the stupid #!/usr/bin/env python supposed to find python except when the OS has no /usr) |
| 21:40.22 | Eduard_Munteanu | SRabbelier, hg is rather okay as far as I heard. Still, it's kinda slow IIRC. |
| 21:40.39 | SRabbelier | Eduard_Munteanu: nah, not really slow |
| 21:40.43 | mmu_man | it doesn't seem that slow, I use it a bit on OSSv4 |
| 21:40.51 | SRabbelier | Eduard_Munteanu: both git and hg outperform one another on different areas |
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| 21:41.03 | mmu_man | and I recall checking out XEmacs (they use it now), and it wasn't really that slow, for the whole XEmacs tree |
| 21:41.05 | SRabbelier | mmu_man: hehe, lol |
| 21:41.35 | Eduard_Munteanu | SRabbelier, I appreciate hg is architecture-wise similar to git, as it's not centralized. I find that great. |
| 21:41.56 | SRabbelier | Eduard_Munteanu: correct, DVCS for the win |
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| 21:43.23 | mmu_man | aw that's antique ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/haiku/snapshots |
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| 21:45.23 | mmu_man | oh berlios has git & hg now too |
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| 21:51.00 | SRabbelier | whow |
| 21:51.04 | SRabbelier | will you look at that: http://code.google.com/p/support/issues/detail?id=60#c75 |
| 21:51.11 | SRabbelier | look like the code.google.com team is actually GSD! :P |
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| 21:52.27 | kblin | GSD? |
| 21:52.36 | vicmiclovich | wat? |
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| 21:54.08 | SRabbelier | Gettign Something Done? |
| 21:54.14 | SRabbelier | that's lh's mantra |
| 21:54.18 | SRabbelier | kblin: shame on you for not knowing |
| 21:54.24 | anirudh | hi anyone submitted the application ? |
| 21:54.38 | SRabbelier | anirudh: are you serious? |
| 21:54.42 | anirudh | lol |
| 21:54.44 | anirudh | yea |
| 21:54.54 | anirudh | i'd submit in a couple of days |
| 21:55.05 | kblin | SRabbelier: GSD parses as "Galaktischer Sicherheitsdienst" for me, from the Orion series |
| 21:55.32 | anirudh | i'd like to see a PDF of someone who submitted, just facing problems in the layouting stuff :D |
| 21:55.49 | anirudh | fresh and good applications , yo ! :) |
| 21:55.54 | SRabbelier | kblin: lol |
| 21:56.23 | *** join/#gsoc pygi (n=pygi@193.198.163.7) |
| 21:56.30 | kblin | it was my favourite sci-fi series, before I found Firefly |
| 21:56.39 | pygi | anyone has a nice project for me? :) |
| 21:56.45 | hypa7ia | !anyone |
| 21:56.45 | socinfo | "anyone" is Instead of looking for mentors from specific projects here, you will likely get much better results by speaking to that mentoring organization themselves. You can find the org's contact info by clicking on their name in the list at: http://socghop.appspot.com/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2009 |
| 21:56.50 | hypa7ia | pygi: ^^ |
| 21:57.01 | lh | all hail the holy gospel of gsd |
| 21:57.05 | SRabbelier | kblin: I keep hearing about Firefly, maybe I should watch it... |
| 21:57.07 | SRabbelier | grins |
| 21:57.11 | pygi | hypa7ia, o com'on, I'm not newbie here xD |
| 21:57.13 | SRabbelier | lh: I knew I'd lure you out with GSD :P |
| 21:57.15 | hypa7ia | firefly is full of awesome |
| 21:57.37 | danderson | you can't take the sky from me... |
| 21:57.48 | danderson | is sad that it no longer exists |
| 21:57.53 | hypa7ia | too :( |
| 21:58.26 | *** join/#gsoc geek745 (n=paul@134.139.238.8) |
| 21:58.29 | kblin | dunno |
| 21:58.37 | *** join/#gsoc alunduil (n=alunduil@24-119-178-35.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 21:58.47 | kblin | I'm not sure they could have kept up the quality for many more seasons |
| 21:58.56 | kblin | I just wish they had finished the first one |
| 21:59.09 | anirudh | i'd like to see an application's PDF any of u guys submitted this year |
| 21:59.18 | lh | SRabbelier: i am a creature of habit |
| 21:59.27 | anirudh | just to get a hang of the format and breathe a real application |
| 21:59.30 | anirudh | ;D |
| 21:59.32 | anirudh | :D |
| 21:59.33 | SRabbelier | lh: yes, idneed :P |
| 21:59.37 | *** join/#gsoc MTsoul (n=MTsoul@c-67-185-149-71.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 21:59.47 | kblin | anyway, Orion is a german series in b&w, filmed way before star trek was around |
| 21:59.58 | SRabbelier | kblin: that's ancient |
| 22:00.01 | kblin | it's really really low-tech on the props |
| 22:00.20 | Egis | anirudh: http://penyaskitodice.wordpress.com/2008/06/25/wordpress-gsoc-trac-social-bug-tracking-development/ |
| 22:00.21 | kblin | but it's filmed in post-ww2 germany, they had no money for fancy props |
| 22:00.31 | kblin | so they had to be smart about using them |
| 22:00.41 | SRabbelier | Erant: which makes it all the more awesome :P |
| 22:00.47 | SRabbelier | errr |
| 22:00.49 | SRabbelier | s/Erant/kblin |
| 22:01.07 | SRabbelier | is having two conversations at the same time, obviously failing at it too |
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| 22:02.01 | pygi | lh, hypa7ia treats me like I am some kind of newcomer :( |
| 22:02.03 | pygi | tell him to stop :p |
| 22:02.13 | *** join/#gsoc TinyJeffM (n=JeffM@adsl-75-16-90-222.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:02.14 | kblin | pygi: stop whining ;) |
| 22:02.23 | *** join/#gsoc ar1nd4m (n=Arindam@203.110.243.21) |
| 22:02.29 | pygi | now you're being rude too :-/ |
| 22:03.05 | lh | pygi: maybe you're just behaving badly |
| 22:03.18 | pygi | lh, o.O |
| 22:03.23 | pygi | that's so not true o.O |
| 22:03.24 | *** part/#gsoc domonoky (n=Domonoky@rockbox/developer/domonoky) |
| 22:03.27 | hypa7ia | pygi: also, i'm not a dude |
| 22:03.28 | anirudh | who's the most famous person after lh at the Gsoc chat ? :P |
| 22:03.45 | pygi | hypa7ia, my personal apologies then |
| 22:03.51 | hypa7ia | :) |
| 22:04.05 | SRabbelier | hypa7ia: which is why I try to refer to people as 'they' :P |
| 22:04.13 | Ryan52 | lh: my email only said "instantmirror" twice :) |
| 22:04.16 | SRabbelier | which is perfectly valid in english :P |
| 22:04.35 | hypa7ia | SRabbelier: ish :) i usually use the more annoying but more correct "he or she" |
| 22:04.53 | hypa7ia | the neutral "they" is pretty commonly accepted though |
| 22:05.09 | SRabbelier | hypa7ia: too bothersome |
| 22:05.13 | SRabbelier | Lennie: see |
| 22:05.27 | Lennie | ^_^ |
| 22:05.36 | *** join/#gsoc ar1nd4m (n=Arindam@203.110.243.21) |
| 22:05.50 | Lennie | Didn't I posted the following on the issue tracker: You know my English isn't that good |
| 22:05.51 | *** join/#gsoc flyankur (n=flyankur@122.162.237.141) |
| 22:06.06 | Lennie | I can just hide behind my Dutch fence :) |
| 22:06.08 | Ryan52 | lh: "few more details"...such as? |
| 22:06.25 | hypa7ia | SRabbelier: i agree that it's bothersome, but i'm more bothered by the grammar than by the extra typing... there's always a tradeoff :) |
| 22:06.39 | SRabbelier | hypa7ia: fair enough |
| 22:06.50 | SRabbelier | Lennie: /snoexcuse |
| 22:07.28 | *** join/#gsoc ar1nd4m (n=Arindam@203.110.243.21) |
| 22:07.58 | hypa7ia | SRabbelier: a great work on the topic is the "handbook of nonsexist writing": http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0595159214/ |
| 22:08.08 | hypa7ia | i refer to it often, it's very readable and usful |
| 22:08.37 | hypa7ia | oh yay it's back in print |
| 22:08.52 | SRabbelier | hypa7ia: pfff, talk about bothersome |
| 22:08.58 | Raim | !advice |
| 22:08.58 | socinfo | "advice" is http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code/wiki/AdviceforStudents for students, http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code/wiki/AdviceforMentors for mentors |
| 22:09.04 | SRabbelier | hypa7ia: not even an e-book |
| 22:09.07 | Landon | I just avoid situations where it comes up |
| 22:09.27 | SRabbelier | Landon: how d'ya do that? |
| 22:09.43 | hypa7ia | SRabbelier: i know, i have the dead-tree version! :) |
| 22:09.44 | Landon | I carefully phrase my phrases |
| 22:09.45 | Landon | :P |
| 22:09.50 | hypa7ia | Landon: i do that a lot too |
| 22:10.26 | *** join/#gsoc IwikiwI (n=Vamsi@121.247.120.7) |
| 22:10.33 | *** join/#gsoc eamiri (n=chatzill@cs-osl-03.cs.surrey.sfu.ca) |
| 22:10.54 | SRabbelier | Landon: lol |
| 22:10.57 | Ryan52 | lh: ok, the email giving me consent has been sent. |
| 22:11.13 | kblin | yay |
| 22:11.21 | kblin | just made up a new buzzword |
| 22:11.26 | kblin | now I need to go and hype it |
| 22:11.26 | hypa7ia | ruh roh |
| 22:11.34 | Landon | kblin: what is it! |
| 22:11.36 | Landon | I need to use it |
| 22:11.38 | lh | Ryan52: groovy |
| 22:11.52 | kblin | Landon: Embedded Active Directory |
| 22:12.06 | Landon | ew |
| 22:12.08 | Landon | sounds godawful |
| 22:12.23 | *** join/#gsoc npe (i=npe@dn157-088.naist.jp) |
| 22:12.28 | kblin | it's cool because it resurrects old buzzword zombies and frankensteins them into a new one |
| 22:12.52 | Ryan52 | lh: so what more do you need for me to do? |
| 22:14.06 | *** join/#gsoc geek745 (n=paul@134.139.238.8) |
| 22:14.07 | SRabbelier | kblin: what's it mean? |
| 22:16.07 | kblin | SRabbelier: "Nya, nya, we can run on low-power ARM processors, Microsoft can't" |
| 22:16.21 | kblin | :) |
| 22:16.50 | SRabbelier | kblin: lol, wine can, ms can't? |
| 22:16.56 | SRabbelier | kblin: or samba? |
| 22:17.07 | kblin | samba can |
| 22:17.12 | SRabbelier | kblin: win |
| 22:17.42 | kblin | I'm just pimping out my abstract for a conference |
| 22:17.46 | *** join/#gsoc lemketron (n=lemketro@palm-64-28-152-131.palm.com) |
| 22:18.17 | Erant | Wine won't run on ARM procs. |
| 22:18.43 | SRabbelier | Erant: shush |
| 22:18.44 | Lennie | kblin, meet Erant. Erant meet Kblin a wine dev :P |
| 22:18.58 | SRabbelier | (also sambda and Thousand Parsec) |
| 22:19.08 | SRabbelier | s/bd/b/ |
| 22:19.14 | SRabbelier | ibot: sweet |
| 22:19.15 | ibot | i heard sweet is a great girl? |
| 22:19.19 | Lennie | :D |
| 22:19.20 | SRabbelier | lol |
| 22:19.21 | SRabbelier | cackles |
| 22:19.27 | Erant | Lennie: Ah |
| 22:19.29 | SRabbelier | ibot: melange |
| 22:19.31 | Lennie | awesome bot |
| 22:19.33 | Lennie | s/t/d |
| 22:19.34 | SRabbelier | taps foot |
| 22:19.36 | Erant | Well. It won't. :P |
| 22:19.37 | kblin | SRabbelier: no.. |
| 22:19.38 | Lennie | lame :( |
| 22:19.44 | kblin | SRabbelier: WorldForge, not TP |
| 22:19.45 | Lennie | I failed |
| 22:19.49 | SRabbelier | kblin: crud |
| 22:19.53 | SRabbelier | kblin: sorry :( |
| 22:19.59 | Erant | ARM != x86. Nor x64. It doesn't have an x86 core neither |
| 22:20.11 | SRabbelier | Erant: dun't need one |
| 22:20.19 | Erant | No. It'll run on magic. |
| 22:20.24 | SRabbelier | Erant: how'd you know 0.o |
| 22:20.29 | kblin | SRabbelier: mithro is the on on TP |
| 22:20.30 | Erant | Wild guess :P |
| 22:20.56 | *** join/#gsoc grogs987 (n=Grogs@138-38-203-68.resnet.bath.ac.uk) |
| 22:20.57 | *** join/#gsoc grogs (n=grogs@138-38-203-68.resnet.bath.ac.uk) |
| 22:21.00 | SRabbelier | kblin: gah, he is, sorry for mixing you two up :( |
| 22:21.21 | Eduard_Munteanu | Really now, x86(-64) is a lot like Microsoft... bloated with stupid opcodes for stupid programmers. |
| 22:21.39 | kblin | SRabbelier: of course mithro used to hang out at WF alot before he decided he'd like to do space games |
| 22:21.40 | *** join/#gsoc TinyJefferyM (n=JeffM@adsl-75-16-90-222.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:21.44 | SRabbelier | Eduard_Munteanu: I don't care, honestly :P |
| 22:21.47 | *** join/#gsoc Bloodmaker (n=inder@74.195.1.110) |
| 22:21.49 | SRabbelier | Eduard_Munteanu: as long as it runs my python :P |
| 22:21.54 | kblin | SRabbelier: which makes the whole thing more complicated |
| 22:22.13 | SRabbelier | kblin: heheeh, feeling a little,errr, what's the word |
| 22:22.15 | SRabbelier | vindictive? |
| 22:22.37 | Eduard_Munteanu | SRabbelier, true, but it was a techie judgement that "it could've been better" |
| 22:22.48 | *** part/#gsoc anirudh (i=75c770d5@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ae1c5df014349dae) |
| 22:23.40 | Erant | <fn~Eduard_Munteanu> Really now, x86(-64) is a lot like Microsoft... bloated with stupid opcodes for stupid programmers. |
| 22:23.47 | Erant | Welcome to the world of CISC |
| 22:24.27 | Eduard_Munteanu | Erant, well, I can live with "push" instead of 2 insn to get something on the stack |
| 22:24.43 | SRabbelier | oh dear |
| 22:24.44 | thiago_home | like AAA ? |
| 22:24.46 | SRabbelier | now the ranting will commence |
| 22:24.48 | *** join/#gsoc eliel (n=eliels@151-202-114-200.fibertel.com.ar) |
| 22:24.50 | Eduard_Munteanu | but I can't live with "let's do lmsw %ax" instead of "mov 1, %cr0" |
| 22:24.56 | Erant | thiago: AAA is teh awsum :P |
| 22:25.01 | SRabbelier | prepares to /kick as needed |
| 22:25.08 | Erant | Adjust After Addition ftw. |
| 22:25.41 | Eduard_Munteanu | yeah |
| 22:26.00 | SRabbelier | oh... that went over a lot more smooth than I thought :P |
| 22:26.06 | SRabbelier | I figured Erant would be flaming about now :P |
| 22:26.06 | Erant | 'cuz, like, we use lots of BCD numbers these days |
| 22:26.14 | Erant | I'm smouldering. |
| 22:26.17 | Erant | On the inside. |
| 22:26.20 | SRabbelier | Erant: all da time, like, when simulating a NES :P |
| 22:26.28 | Erant | Yup. |
| 22:26.40 | Erant | My 6502 emu rocked the boat. |
| 22:27.00 | mmu_man | 6502 \o/ |
| 22:27.01 | SRabbelier | Erant: it failed |
| 22:27.07 | Erant | Self modifying code and all |
| 22:27.07 | SRabbelier | Erant: it ran only like, half the ROMS :P |
| 22:27.20 | mmu_man | http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=52820 :D |
| 22:27.26 | Erant | Pfrt. Compared to the other teams. Which ran... none ;) |
| 22:27.27 | Eduard_Munteanu | SRabbelier, nvm, the rest weren't worth playing :P |
| 22:27.44 | SRabbelier | Eduard_Munteanu: heh, that's cheap :P |
| 22:27.49 | SRabbelier | Erant: point |
| 22:27.51 | *** join/#gsoc sandrejev (n=sandreje@lan-84-240-25-139.vln.skynet.lt) |
| 22:27.59 | *** join/#gsoc thiagoss (n=thiagoss@189.71.59.168) |
| 22:28.09 | Erant | SRabbelier: Also. How many people actually WROTE code for that project? Out of the 5 people we had? |
| 22:28.13 | Erant | Liek... 2? :P |
| 22:28.25 | Eduard_Munteanu | SRabbelier, yeah, though my point is sometimes you just code for the code |
| 22:28.42 | kblin | sighs |
| 22:28.45 | SRabbelier | Erant: well.... it's like this |
| 22:28.51 | SRabbelier | Eduard_Munteanu: in this case we did |
| 22:28.52 | kblin | I hate writing short bios about myself |
| 22:29.02 | *** join/#gsoc russellb_ (n=russellb@asterisk/digium-open-source-team-lead/russellb) |
| 22:29.05 | SRabbelier | Eduard_Munteanu: 't was a school project after all |
| 22:29.09 | SRabbelier | kblin: how else would you boot? |
| 22:29.27 | kblin | SRabbelier: bios, not BIOS |
| 22:29.32 | Erant | ;) |
| 22:29.39 | Erant | BIOS is old. |
| 22:29.45 | Erant | EFI is the new hot thang. |
| 22:29.46 | Eduard_Munteanu | SRabbelier, heh, I didn't intend to bash Erant; only pointed out the outcome isn't the only interesting part. |
| 22:29.52 | p_l|backup | SRabbelier: SRM and OpenFirmware kicks BIOS' ass :P |
| 22:30.06 | p_l|backup | Erant: now it's called UEFI |
| 22:30.07 | SRabbelier | p_l|backup: tell kblin! :P |
| 22:30.12 | SRabbelier | kblin: pfff, same diffrence |
| 22:30.16 | Erant | p_l: What, since when? O_o |
| 22:30.28 | SRabbelier | Eduard_Munteanu: why not bash Erant? |
| 22:30.28 | p_l|backup | Erant: I'm waiting for EFI 3.0 to be called UEFA |
| 22:30.30 | kblin | SRabbelier: :p |
| 22:30.32 | SRabbelier | Eduard_Munteanu: that's the fun part.. |
| 22:30.36 | danderson | yeah, and EFI is used on one completely locked down series of hardware |
| 22:30.39 | Eduard_Munteanu | SRabbelier, :)) |
| 22:30.40 | Erant | :( |
| 22:30.46 | danderson | the rest of the useful world still has BIOSen |
| 22:30.55 | kblin | p_l|backup: but that's the european football association already |
| 22:31.04 | Erant | danderson: Well, there is EFIX |
| 22:31.17 | danderson | also, isn't there some controversy along the lines that EFI prevents fully open source core bootup software? |
| 22:31.22 | p_l|backup | kblin: that's why it will be called like that, so they could use popularity |
| 22:31.22 | Eduard_Munteanu | No, that should spell "Well, there is LinuxBIOS" |
| 22:31.27 | Eduard_Munteanu | or coreboot, or what it |
| 22:31.27 | SRabbelier | kblin: we've long since ran out of three/four letter acronyms |
| 22:31.27 | p_l|backup | danderson: nope |
| 22:31.31 | Eduard_Munteanu | 's called now. |
| 22:32.10 | p_l|backup | danderson: you just write an app that understands the format your kernel is in and how to pass data, or pack your kernel directly into EFI .exe |
| 22:32.17 | danderson | see last question of http://archive.fosdem.org/2007/interview/ronald+g+minnich |
| 22:32.20 | *** join/#gsoc sepho_ (n=sepho@117.pool85-55-42.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 22:32.37 | danderson | "It is not really possible to build a full open-source BIOS if EFI is involved." |
| 22:32.37 | SRabbelier | gah |
| 22:32.42 | SRabbelier | I keep getting "An update for the Google Reader offline feature is available. Refresh." -_-" |
| 22:32.54 | kblin | ha |
| 22:32.56 | *** join/#gsoc Mindless` (n=mindless@209.0.48.75) |
| 22:33.06 | Eduard_Munteanu | I just wish they published their damn specs. After all, there isn't much to hide in a motherboard, or ahem, "added value", as NVIDIA puts it. |
| 22:33.07 | p_l|backup | danderson: EFI also makes it impossible to fully control your hw in case of x86 |
| 22:33.24 | p_l|backup | danderson: as by spec it uses SMM |
| 22:33.28 | *** join/#gsoc mlankhorst (n=mlankhor@wine/developer/mlankhorst) |
| 22:33.28 | *** mode/#gsoc [+o mlankhorst] by ChanServ |
| 22:33.34 | danderson | p_l|backup: in the case of any architecture. The BIOS/EFI controls the machine at bootup. It can do anything it pleases |
| 22:33.45 | SRabbelier | danderson: that's rather disturbing |
| 22:33.47 | monsieurp | !next |
| 22:33.47 | socinfo | "next" is Student application period has now started, and runs until April 3rd at 19:00 UTC (12:00 PST) (countdown: http://tinyurl.com/dzlmpj ). Students, apply now at http://tinyurl.com/cznmrx. |
| 22:33.48 | danderson | that's why open source BIOS initiatives are so important IMO |
| 22:33.53 | Eduard_Munteanu | p_l|backup, but SMM is still set up bi BIOSes. |
| 22:33.58 | Eduard_Munteanu | s/bi/by |
| 22:34.13 | danderson | there is a whole world between power on and bootloader startup that is closed, secret and mysterious |
| 22:34.24 | danderson | I saw the talk by the LinuxBios folks, it was scary |
| 22:34.41 | danderson | the way they had to reverse engineer lots of secret internal stuff in the CPUs and chipsets |
| 22:34.42 | Eduard_Munteanu | danderson, and there's still more inside SMM and ACPI, hidden _while the OS is running_ |
| 22:34.43 | SRabbelier | would rather not thing about that |
| 22:34.46 | p_l|backup | Eduard_Munteanu: SMM is a mainline x86 faggotry. It's just that BIOS spec doesn't require it to work (certain cpu stuff has to be done in SMM, like synchronisation between powerstates...) |
| 22:34.53 | danderson | that aren't documented publicly because they are only useful to the BIOS |
| 22:34.55 | lh | Ryan52: there is no instant mirror mentoring organization in google summer of code |
| 22:34.59 | lh | so i am utterly confused |
| 22:35.05 | Erant | danderson: Read about the recent microcode fail on the intels, and whatnot? |
| 22:35.21 | thebolt_away | hi lh |
| 22:35.22 | SRabbelier | Erant: so, feeling at home in GSoC yet? ;) |
| 22:35.29 | p_l|backup | still mourns after Alpha |
| 22:35.34 | danderson | for example, there is apparently a magic way to turn the L2 cache in CPUs into a micro-RAM |
| 22:35.36 | *** part/#gsoc stefanb85 (n=stefan@86.121.81.154) |
| 22:35.47 | Erant | SRabbelier: :) |
| 22:35.59 | danderson | which BIOSes use as a scratch area while they initialize the north/southbridges to get the real RAM synchronized and communicating with the core |
| 22:36.06 | SRabbelier | danderson: like, write 0x42 to 0o1337? |
| 22:36.09 | p_l|backup | danderson: it's not magic, that's how they operate before you startup memory controller :-) |
| 22:36.12 | Erant | danderson: That doesn't seem weird. |
| 22:36.15 | SRabbelier | Erant: I told you it's awesum ;) |
| 22:36.26 | Erant | You need to init your SDRAM controller somehow |
| 22:36.30 | danderson | p_l|backup: I was under the impression that this behavior needed to be specifically enabled |
| 22:36.38 | Eduard_Munteanu | danderson, huh? In any case, direct access to L2 cache isn't in any way unimportant. |
| 22:36.39 | danderson | at least in the early processors supporting this kind of thing |
| 22:37.04 | danderson | Eduard_Munteanu: what do you mean 'huh' ? |
| 22:37.09 | p_l|backup | well... in my alpha, it was the cpu that configured memory bus before switching to firmware... :P |
| 22:37.12 | Erant | danderson: I used this on an ARMv9 core, I believe. |
| 22:37.21 | Ryan52 | lh: err, ok, gimme a sec. |
| 22:37.27 | Eduard_Munteanu | danderson, I presumed you minimized the importance of that (hidden) feature. |
| 22:37.38 | danderson | Erant: there was a time on x86 when this did not exist |
| 22:37.45 | danderson | at that time, LinuxBios had their own C compiler |
| 22:37.55 | danderson | that compiled code to use only cpu registers as "ram" |
| 22:37.58 | *** part/#gsoc vicmiclovich (n=Victor@hdb.n3.ips.mtn.co.ug) |
| 22:38.13 | danderson | but, all the cpu registers it could find, obviously :P |
| 22:38.25 | lh | Ryan52: thank you |
| 22:38.26 | p_l|backup | lol |
| 22:38.36 | danderson | that gives you something like <1k of RAM to play with until you initialize the real memory bus |
| 22:38.53 | *** join/#gsoc Mindless` (n=mindless@209.0.48.75) |
| 22:38.53 | kblin | oh well, completed my CFP submission with a couple of days to spare |
| 22:38.54 | kblin | go me |
| 22:39.08 | Ryan52 | lh: I gotta ask warren, and he's not a around right now, so I'll figure it out later.. |
| 22:39.10 | p_l|backup | danderson: Alpha's boot using L1 as ram using firmware placed inside CPU which has a monitoring and debugging interface exported over a serial port :D |
| 22:39.19 | Erant | danderson: http://threatpost.com/blogs/researchers-unveil-persistent-bios-attack-methods |
| 22:39.22 | danderson | p_l|backup: see, now *that* is a sexy cpu |
| 22:39.24 | Erant | Should interest you ;) |
| 22:39.25 | Eduard_Munteanu | danderson, err, are you talking about SPARC or something? Because otherwise that's nowhere near 1k register capacity :-) |
| 22:39.45 | Erant | PPC has a HUUUUGE amount of registers |
| 22:39.46 | lh | Ryan52: what organization is warren with? |
| 22:39.50 | p_l|backup | Eduard_Munteanu: full MMIX 1.0 spec gives you 512 64bit registers... |
| 22:39.51 | Erant | Like. an insane amount |
| 22:40.00 | danderson | Eduard_Munteanu: I was thinking including MMX, SSE and other extension registers |
| 22:40.08 | danderson | but yeah, the upper bound I gave is high |
| 22:40.09 | Eduard_Munteanu | p_l|backup, danderson, oh, I see. |
| 22:40.13 | danderson | probably more like 200 bytes if you're lucky |
| 22:40.18 | Ryan52 | lh: redhat. is that what it would be then? |
| 22:40.30 | Erant | danderson: So that article is scary, when it comes to BIOSes ;) |
| 22:40.37 | danderson | p_l|backup: isn't MMIX a fictional architecture invented for AoCP ? :) |
| 22:40.42 | *** join/#gsoc geek745 (n=geek745@134.139.238.8) |
| 22:40.48 | thebolt_away | Eduard_Munteanu: well, technically netburst has alot larger register file than exposed via x86 instruction set,.,. |
| 22:40.52 | p_l|backup | danderson: Who knows how long it will be fictional :P |
| 22:40.59 | thebolt_away | somewhere along the lines of 2-5x more |
| 22:41.00 | SRabbelier | Erant: that shit depresses me :( |
| 22:41.17 | p_l|backup | thebolt_away: all "x86" have way more physical registers, due to register renaming and microcoding |
| 22:41.20 | Erant | SRabbelier: The dark side has an edge, unfortunatly. Always has, always will. |
| 22:41.37 | Eduard_Munteanu | thebolt_away, yeah, I meant SPARC had like 64 GPRs in usual CPUs. |
| 22:41.42 | danderson | p_l|backup: yeah, of course, but those registers aren't accessible outside the black box |
| 22:41.45 | thebolt_away | p_l|backup: yea, but the earlier ones alot less so |
| 22:41.49 | p_l|backup | thebolt_away: unconfirmed sources claim that you could switch AMD K5 into RISC mode :) |
| 22:41.57 | thebolt_away | Eduard_Munteanu: yep, i know |
| 22:42.00 | lh | Ryan52: yes it would. ok. please have your mom reply back with "RedHat and JBoss.org" |
| 22:42.14 | SRabbelier | Erant: good thing we has lots of lanterns ^^ |
| 22:42.16 | lh | Ryan52: i still need to get this through legal, no guarantees |
| 22:42.29 | danderson | but another thing I loved about the linuxbios talk was the anecdotes |
| 22:42.40 | Erant | SRabbelier: Yup :) |
| 22:42.48 | danderson | like AMD talking to them, and telling them that their SMP initialization routine was more efficient than theirs |
| 22:43.05 | danderson | and enabled the BIOS to boot in full SMP mode after the fundamental initialization |
| 22:43.08 | Erant | :) |
| 22:43.10 | vanRossum | can i contribute to kde by writing a game? |
| 22:43.11 | vanRossum | =) |
| 22:43.30 | Erant | danderson: coreboot sounds like an interesting project now. |
| 22:43.35 | danderson | it is |
| 22:43.39 | SRabbelier | !askyourorg |
| 22:43.39 | socinfo | "askyourorg" is You should ask the organization you are interested in applying as this varies per organization. |
| 22:43.42 | SRabbelier | vanRossum: ^^^^ |
| 22:43.46 | danderson | it's slightly sad that manufacturers *still* don't seem to get this |
| 22:43.50 | p_l|backup | danderson: it's not hard, as LinuxBIOS can screw emulating an IBM PC |
| 22:43.53 | Eduard_Munteanu | Erant, danderson, yes, it is. The bad part is you need to have some relevant hardware lying around. |
| 22:44.08 | Erant | Eduard: You from coreboot? |
| 22:44.19 | Eduard_Munteanu | Erant, no, but I thought of applying there. |
| 22:44.31 | llnz | vanRossum: there are also some specific game projects in SoC |
| 22:44.32 | danderson | Eduard_Munteanu: yeah, that's what I meant. Coreboot, last I checked, mostly works on server-end motherboards, and only a select few at that |
| 22:44.46 | p_l|backup | danderson: K8/K10 is basically a SoC, you can run it on bare bones board with memory sockets, bootrom and powersource... |
| 22:44.48 | danderson | not many home folks have the courage/expertise to get coreboot working on a consumer mobo |
| 22:44.57 | Eduard_Munteanu | danderson, yeah. And reverse-engineering your own motherboard is by far no option for a SoC. |
| 22:45.03 | vanRossum | llnz: i just saw one |
| 22:45.11 | danderson | heh |
| 22:45.15 | Erant | Hmm. Let's see if I have any of their hardware. I also have a reasonable selection of EEPROM programmers, so I can fix pretty much everything. |
| 22:45.16 | danderson | though I would love the challenge one day |
| 22:45.23 | SRabbelier | danderson: you mean they're not insane enough? |
| 22:45.37 | Ryan52 | lh: k, email sent... |
| 22:45.39 | danderson | Eduard_Munteanu: but, as far as I know, it's a truly insane task without manufacturer support, right? |
| 22:45.43 | Erant | Reasonable selection of EEPROM programmers + heatgun + soldering skills + a copy of IDA pro, and you're good to go ;) |
| 22:45.52 | lh | Ryan52: thank you |
| 22:45.54 | danderson | as in, no debugger port to jack in and see what is going on, etc. |
| 22:46.11 | danderson | oh, well, yeah, there is reverse engineering the onboard BIOS I guess. |
| 22:46.20 | p_l|backup | wants something that acts like SRM for boot firmware! |
| 22:46.30 | Eduard_Munteanu | danderson, err, I believe so. You'd also need an ICE and some other high-end tools, even though mobos can be similar to one another. |
| 22:46.52 | p_l|backup | how many BIOSes out there booted in SMP and ran multiple processes? ;D |
| 22:47.04 | koryk | Is there a length limit on applications? |
| 22:47.13 | Erant | I need to get my x86 skills back up to scratch. |
| 22:47.24 | Erant | I'm not very up-to-date on it. |
| 22:47.34 | kblin | lets other people do the assembly stuff |
| 22:47.34 | danderson | p_l|backup: for hardware initialization, all of them could take advantage afaik |
| 22:47.35 | Eduard_Munteanu | Just an ICE is >$1000 IIRC |
| 22:47.42 | danderson | especially SMP machines with numa memory architectures |
| 22:47.49 | p_l|backup | danderson: yes, but SRM dropped you into shell :) |
| 22:47.59 | danderson | if the BIOS boots in full SMP, all cores can initialize their own memory modules in parallel |
| 22:48.00 | pygi | SRabbelier, mind if I catch you on pm? |
| 22:48.07 | kblin | koryk: not that I'm aware of |
| 22:48.12 | Eduard_Munteanu | That is, unless you're willing to infringe those damn copyrights and disassemble their BIOSes :P |
| 22:48.16 | koryk | kblin: thx |
| 22:48.19 | SRabbelier | pygi: go wild |
| 22:48.31 | kblin | koryk: but try to keep the application in reasonable limits |
| 22:48.39 | danderson | Eduard_Munteanu: ouch. I pine for ARM cores that have a built-in debug core :P |
| 22:48.40 | p_l|backup | Eduard_Munteanu: If you are outside USA, you are usually not infringing on anything by disassembling :) |
| 22:48.54 | Eduard_Munteanu | danderson, err, testing is likely to work in parallel only on NUMA-enabled hardware. |
| 22:49.00 | Erant | DMCA allows reverse engineering for interoperability purposes |
| 22:49.04 | danderson | Eduard_Munteanu: that's what I said |
| 22:49.05 | *** join/#gsoc Kaetemi (n=Kaetemi@pdpc/supporter/base/kaetemi) |
| 22:49.06 | Erant | So you're all good. |
| 22:49.09 | danderson | isn't it? |
| 22:49.17 | araujo | hello |
| 22:49.22 | p_l|backup | Erant: Not always, and only clean room |
| 22:49.41 | Eduard_Munteanu | danderson, err, SMP != NUMA |
| 22:49.42 | kblin | yeah, you need two teams |
| 22:49.43 | danderson | Erant: I don't know if this qualifies under that. I'm pretty sure "interoperability" has a strict lawyerese definition |
| 22:49.52 | Eduard_Munteanu | p_l|backup, hmm, not sure. |
| 22:49.53 | danderson | I'd definitely get legal advice before touching anything |
| 22:49.57 | Erant | p_l|backup: Clean room is an interesting approach though. But I'm in europe, so I'm all good ;) |
| 22:49.58 | p_l|backup | in Poland law simply states that the fragment about "forbidden to disassemble" in EULA is illegal :P |
| 22:50.23 | kblin | p_l|backup: but you still need to be careful about US laws |
| 22:50.25 | Erant | I remember ath5k being a textbook example of cleanroom reversing. |
| 22:50.32 | danderson | Eduard_Munteanu: and I said SMP machines with numa memory architectures |
| 22:50.37 | kblin | p_l|backup: at least if you ever want to travel to the US |
| 22:50.42 | Eduard_Munteanu | danderson, oh, my bad :) |
| 22:50.44 | *** join/#gsoc nman64 (n=n-man@fedora/nman64) |
| 22:50.45 | danderson | granted, I repeated "memory architecture" from the acronym :) |
| 22:50.57 | SRabbelier | p_l|backup: win |
| 22:51.02 | SRabbelier | p_l|backup: gotta love poland |
| 22:51.26 | Eduard_Munteanu | Erant, still, they didn't disassemble the code. |
| 22:51.36 | p_l|backup | kblin: oh you mean the old trick with arresting people for stuff that isn't a crime were they live and who don't have citizenship? :D |
| 22:51.54 | kblin | p_l|backup: has happened before |
| 22:52.01 | p_l|backup | kblin: I know |
| 22:52.05 | danderson | the workaround would be to reverse engineer the bios |
| 22:52.10 | danderson | then post the specs on Freenet |
| 22:52.18 | danderson | similarly, later "discover" them on Freenet |
| 22:52.19 | kblin | p_l|backup: and if you work in IT, there's an awful lot of conferences in silicon valley |
| 22:52.22 | danderson | and implement from them :P |
| 22:52.24 | p_l|backup | kblin: I figure I won't be given any kind of Visa anyway :> |
| 22:52.24 | *** join/#gsoc sven423 (n=quassel@amarok/rokymotion/sven423) |
| 22:52.27 | Eduard_Munteanu | p_l|backup, no, but if you contribute to such a project having disassembled the code, that code is useless if they want to be legit. |
| 22:52.36 | Eduard_Munteanu | for those in US. |
| 22:52.42 | *** join/#gsoc kumarabhi (n=chatzill@115.241.158.79) |
| 22:52.47 | SRabbelier | danderson: rofl |
| 22:52.52 | Eduard_Munteanu | danderson, heh :)) |
| 22:53.00 | SRabbelier | p_l|backup: why is that? :p |
| 22:53.22 | *** join/#gsoc cjhopman (n=chris@wesnoth/developer/cjhopman) |
| 22:53.24 | *** join/#gsoc secureendpoints (i=chatzill@181.sub-75-221-217.myvzw.com) |
| 22:53.46 | p_l|backup | SRabbelier: I can totally see myself writing checking the box about "conducting terrorist operations in US" in Visa forms :P |
| 22:53.55 | p_l|backup | -writing |
| 22:53.56 | SRabbelier | p_l|backup: LOL!!!!! |
| 22:53.58 | danderson | it's a bit of a pity that x86 doesn't come with embedded debugging facilities |
| 22:54.04 | SRabbelier | p_l|backup: why would you do that? :p |
| 22:54.20 | Eduard_Munteanu | Heh, Freenet, DVCSs work well. What's more to say? Internet and OSS is anarchy :P |
| 22:54.23 | danderson | wants to plug his CPU into a debugger and remote control/poke it |
| 22:54.27 | p_l|backup | SRabbelier: for the same reasons dolphins kill porcupines. Shits'n'giggles |
| 22:54.32 | tcoppi | there is SMM mode |
| 22:54.41 | tcoppi | you need an expensive debugger to take advantage of it |
| 22:54.43 | SRabbelier | danderson: cos, obviously, you got matrix skills and can read the output fast enough? :P |
| 22:54.43 | Eduard_Munteanu | not to mention GPG webs. |
| 22:54.44 | Erant | kblin: Yeah, DEFCON, blackhat, etc. I want to go there :( |
| 22:54.49 | SRabbelier | p_l|backup: lmao :P |
| 22:54.54 | danderson | tcoppi: but does that work as soon as the cpu powers on? |
| 22:54.56 | Erant | SRabbelier: Instruction stepping. |
| 22:55.01 | tcoppi | danderson: afaik yes |
| 22:55.03 | danderson | or does it require initialization to talk to other stuff first? |
| 22:55.04 | SRabbelier | p_l|backup: I wouldn't define Guantanamo as "shits'n'iggles" :P |
| 22:55.12 | SRabbelier | Erant: pffff, you weren't supposed to take that srsly |
| 22:55.16 | tcoppi | actually I don't know if ICE mode works for 64bit |
| 22:55.19 | Erant | Ah |
| 22:55.33 | danderson | Eduard_Munteanu: Freenet has the nice advantage of fairly guaranteed anonymity |
| 22:55.39 | scorche | Erant: those are fun ;) |
| 22:55.43 | p_l|backup | SRabbelier: I would be simply denied a Visa. And yes, there's a checkbox asking you about planning to conduct terrorist operations in certain Visa forms |
| 22:55.46 | danderson | if you don't sign the document, anyone could have deposited it |
| 22:56.06 | danderson | unless your enemy has the ability to monitor all freenet nodes simultaneously |
| 22:56.09 | Erant | scorche: Well, BlackHat is insanely expensive, so no way of ever getting there without corporate backing, but DEFCON is interesting. |
| 22:56.11 | SRabbelier | p_l|backup: telll me about it, filled them in at least 3 times now |
| 22:56.16 | danderson | and corellate traffic between nodes to figure out an origin |
| 22:56.21 | scorche | Erant: for some ;) |
| 22:56.26 | SRabbelier | danderson: they do, name's BB, pleased to meet you |
| 22:56.33 | Erant | scorche: There's the added fun of watching Apple try and forbid people presenting. |
| 22:56.52 | SRabbelier | Erant: presenting? |
| 22:56.59 | danderson | and even then, the only thing they can prove is that at time T, you pushed "something" into freenet |
| 22:57.03 | SRabbelier | Erant: I thought that's what Keynote is all about, presenting stuff? :P |
| 22:57.09 | kblin | SRabbelier: ever tried the new online-thing yet/ |
| 22:57.09 | p_l|backup | as for conferences... I'll admit that I have a goal of moving a lot of IT *out* of US :P |
| 22:57.10 | Eduard_Munteanu | danderson, yeah, I know. The only downside is that it's damn slow. |
| 22:57.11 | danderson | afaik, they can't know what you pushed without rubber-hose cryptography |
| 22:57.16 | SRabbelier | danderson: nice |
| 22:57.20 | SRabbelier | kblin: new online-thingy? |
| 22:57.38 | kblin | SRabbelier: that DHS website thing, I forgot the name |
| 22:57.42 | SRabbelier | p_l|backup: lol, "wtb g1"? |
| 22:57.44 | Eduard_Munteanu | danderson, or aggressively compete for connections with you, though it's unlikely as they say. |
| 22:57.49 | *** join/#gsoc rocky_h (n=Rock@202.152.243.73) |
| 22:57.50 | kblin | SRabbelier: instead of the visa waiver |
| 22:57.52 | SRabbelier | kblin: I'm blank, sorry |
| 22:57.55 | SRabbelier | kblin: aah, yes |
| 22:57.56 | Erant | SRabblier: Heh. Alex Ionescu? |
| 22:58.00 | SRabbelier | kblin: I filled it in, got approved and stuff |
| 22:58.32 | kblin | SRabbelier: so you should be fine for a while now, right? |
| 22:58.35 | SRabbelier | Erant: Alex? |
| 22:58.45 | SRabbelier | kblin: yeah, except there's this _other_ form that you need to fill in too |
| 22:58.59 | kblin | ew |
| 22:59.04 | kblin | oh well |
| 22:59.05 | Eduard_Munteanu | danderson, yeah, that's the best cryptanalysis method. |
| 22:59.07 | danderson | Eduard_Munteanu: yeah. There was that huge crypto-fail a while back though |
| 22:59.11 | tcoppi | http://www.rcollins.org/articles/probemd/ProbeMode.html |
| 22:59.14 | kblin | "* Making the Leap from Engineer to Manager" |
| 22:59.18 | Erant | http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=1616 |
| 22:59.19 | tcoppi | i don't know how much of that will apply to modern procs though |
| 22:59.21 | danderson | where they discovered that 0.7 only encrypted 128k of every 256k block |
| 22:59.21 | Erant | Something like that |
| 22:59.22 | kblin | why would I want to? |
| 22:59.25 | p_l|backup | brb |
| 22:59.31 | danderson | due to an incorrect length passed in lower level crypto code |
| 22:59.31 | kblin | oh, right.. money |
| 22:59.41 | danderson | so 50% of all blocks were stored plaintext |
| 22:59.44 | danderson | huge, huge fail. |
| 22:59.59 | SRabbelier | Erant: dis might be relevant to ur interests: http://tinyurl.com/cn33mn |
| 23:00.03 | ojwb | so "strings", the great hacking tool |
| 23:00.08 | kblin | anyway, off to bed |
| 23:00.26 | kblin | ojwb: sssh, or the german gouvernment wil outlaw that as well |
| 23:00.30 | danderson | (the code was lifted from freenet 0.5, which used a 128k block size, and 0.7 was changed to use 256k block sizes, without changing the length passed to the crypto code) |
| 23:00.37 | kblin | s/wil/will |
| 23:00.42 | SRabbelier | danderson: that's a pretty damn big epic fail |
| 23:00.47 | SRabbelier | danderson: they didn't have any test cases? :P |
| 23:01.02 | danderson | hahahaha |
| 23:01.06 | danderson | test cases, freenet |
| 23:01.11 | danderson | that was funny |
| 23:01.16 | tcoppi | lol |
| 23:01.27 | kblin | night folks |
| 23:01.30 | *** join/#gsoc DTRemenak|RDP (n=DTRemena@about/essy/CrazyCoder/DTRemenak) |
| 23:01.30 | Erant | SRabbelier: HAHA. That swallow thing is awsum ;) |
| 23:01.34 | Erant | kblin: 'nite |
| 23:01.47 | SRabbelier | Erant: heheh, yes :D:D |
| 23:01.59 | SRabbelier | Erant: avg speed :P |
| 23:02.16 | danderson | that project is *awesome* |
| 23:02.22 | danderson | seriously, it is awesome |
| 23:02.33 | danderson | the guys behind it are batshit insane, so it has a good chance of working :P |
| 23:02.45 | danderson | also, a guy on my team is interested in 20%ing for it |
| 23:02.50 | danderson | and he did a PhD on LLVM :P |
| 23:02.57 | SRabbelier | danderson: LOL :D:D |
| 23:03.01 | SRabbelier | danderson: omg, awesome ^^ |
| 23:03.11 | SRabbelier | danderson: so, when will it be merged to python trunk? :P |
| 23:03.12 | *** join/#gsoc rohananil (n=rohanani@210.212.160.101) |
| 23:03.14 | Erant | xkcd <-- batshit insane |
| 23:03.15 | *** join/#gsoc DTRemenak|RDP_ (n=DTRemena@67-131-219-2.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 23:03.16 | SRabbelier | danderson: wtb faster python |
| 23:04.36 | *** join/#gsoc DTRemenak|RDP_ (n=DTRemena@67-131-219-2.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 23:06.04 | *** join/#gsoc durinbot (n=durinbot@adsl-76-197-243-84.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:06.36 | SerialNo | This Link ID is used throughout the site when creating various URL links related to you and content you create. As a result, it may only consist of lower ASCII characters, digits, and underscores. Also, it must be unique and not in use by any other user of the site. |
| 23:06.36 | SerialNo | ? |
| 23:06.42 | SerialNo | what is this for? |
| 23:07.04 | SRabbelier | !read |
| 23:07.04 | socinfo | "read" is Please read the FAQ and documentation (including the information provided to you on the relevant pages) before asking a question. |
| 23:07.07 | SRabbelier | !faq |
| 23:07.07 | socinfo | "faq" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/faqs |
| 23:07.08 | Erant | It's like a username |
| 23:07.08 | Chainsaw | SerialNo: You could put your IRC nickname there. |
| 23:07.10 | SRabbelier | !userguide |
| 23:07.10 | socinfo | "userguide" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/userguide |
| 23:07.17 | SRabbelier | SerialNo: ^^^^ |
| 23:07.21 | Chainsaw | SerialNo: That way, pages that link to you will clearly have your IRC nickname listed and people can find you easier. |
| 23:07.32 | SRabbelier | Chainsaw: just point them at the userguide next time |
| 23:07.40 | SRabbelier | Chainsaw: they won't learn if you keep spoonfeeding them answers |
| 23:07.53 | Erant | omnomnom |
| 23:08.01 | SRabbelier | so anyway, python speedup of 5x |
| 23:08.06 | SRabbelier | wouldn't that make it like... faster than Java? |
| 23:08.11 | Erant | I always imagined answers would be more forkfed. |
| 23:08.13 | Chainsaw | SRabbelier: *shrug* I find it impolite to not answer the actual question. |
| 23:08.36 | SRabbelier | Chainsaw: I find it impolite that they waste our time in the first plase |
| 23:08.36 | Erant | SRabbelier: Your average snail is faster than Java |
| 23:08.45 | SRabbelier | Erant: LOL! |
| 23:08.46 | SRabbelier | Erant: true |
| 23:08.59 | kumarabhi | hey, can we upload our application to some site , as app upload page does not provide proper formatting? |
| 23:09.39 | Erant | But 5x faster... |
| 23:09.41 | rszulgo | I don't think so |
| 23:09.44 | Erant | That might put it up there with ObjC? |
| 23:09.47 | tcoppi | 5x faster python would be so win |
| 23:09.49 | tcoppi | in so many way |
| 23:09.50 | Erant | Slightly slower, but close. |
| 23:09.58 | rszulgo | kumarabhi: Maybe ask you org about it |
| 23:10.00 | Ori_B | kumarabhi: I'd put a poorly formatted application up,with a link to the well formatted one |
| 23:10.04 | tcoppi | +s |
| 23:10.05 | Ori_B | and I'd ask the organziation first. |
| 23:10.12 | Erant | ObjC still has a lot of native code, which makes it fast, ofc. |
| 23:10.16 | rszulgo | :) |
| 23:10.29 | Ori_B | Erant: objc method dispatch is really the only slow part |
| 23:10.36 | Ori_B | and method dispatch isn't all _that_ slow |
| 23:10.44 | Ori_B | maybe (at worst) 5 times slower than C |
| 23:10.46 | *** join/#gsoc webchickenator (n=webchick@drupal.org/user/24967/view) |
| 23:10.47 | *** mode/#gsoc [+o webchickenator] by ChanServ |
| 23:10.53 | SRabbelier | Erant: aye |
| 23:11.06 | SRabbelier | Ori_B: 5 times is a lot |
| 23:11.16 | Erant | I've never really done much with ObjC, due to it's Apple nature (and my lack of a mac). |
| 23:11.23 | Ori_B | SRabbelier: that's true, but it's also fairly easy to optimize in a tight loop |
| 23:11.41 | Erant | I read through the basics of ObjC when I was trying to get my hackintosh working. |
| 23:11.43 | Ori_B | ie, you can look up the method ahead of time and use the cached version |
| 23:11.58 | kumarabhi | ori_b: ok , where do you upload it? |
| 23:12.07 | Ori_B | kumarabhi: uh, wherever you have web space? |
| 23:12.09 | rszulgo | kumarabhi: Your app doesn't need to be pretty but rich. :) |
| 23:12.11 | SRabbelier | Ori_B: ah, true :) |
| 23:12.20 | SRabbelier | Ori_B: means it boils down to proper compiler ;) |
| 23:12.37 | Ori_B | SRabbelier: in ObjC, you can do it manually. |
| 23:12.49 | *** kick/#gsoc [SerialNo!n=SRabbeli@ip138-114-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] by SRabbelier (SRabbelier) |
| 23:13.03 | Erant | Eh? |
| 23:13.06 | SRabbelier | mutters something about PM's |
| 23:13.10 | Erant | Oh |
| 23:13.15 | Erant | Annoying, innit. |
| 23:13.29 | SRabbelier | I don't care if you don't speak English, I don't care if you don't know how to look stuff up by yourself |
| 23:13.40 | SRabbelier | but don't go insulting me if I refuse to spoonfeed you |
| 23:13.43 | danderson | SRabbelier: *now* you're starting to get it :P |
| 23:13.58 | SRabbelier | danderson: *cackles* |
| 23:13.59 | danderson | pins a "Fighting the stupid" badge on SRabbelier's tshirt |
| 23:14.00 | Ori_B | IMP method = [object getMethodImplementation:@selector(someMethod)]; while (tightloop) { method(obj); }<--- not quite right, but that's the gist of it |
| 23:14.05 | kumarabhi | ori_b: please tell me an example site! |
| 23:14.06 | SRabbelier | grins more |
| 23:14.18 | Erant | Damnit. Now he's going to be parading that badge around. |
| 23:14.22 | Erant | Thanks danderson. |
| 23:14.25 | SRabbelier | Ori_B: not quite readable, but eh, understandable ;) |
| 23:14.26 | Ori_B | kumarabhi: I don't know. there is plenty of free web hosting out there. |
| 23:14.27 | Erant | :P |
| 23:14.33 | Erant | 'Dammit' actually, according to xkcd. |
| 23:15.06 | SRabbelier | Erant: lol :P |
| 23:15.42 | Ori_B | SRabbelier: yeah, it's not the prettiest thing, but it reduces the overhead to (IIRC) about half the cost of a C++ virtual method |
| 23:15.54 | Ori_B | and slightly more than the cost of a direct function call. |
| 23:16.33 | SRabbelier | Ori_B: doesn't sound like that bad a language, Obj-C that is |
| 23:16.46 | Ori_B | SRabbelier: it's got some nice points :) |
| 23:17.01 | Ori_B | it's syntax is an obvious bolt-on though. |
| 23:17.06 | SRabbelier | Ori_B: no lie |
| 23:17.39 | Ori_B | and it's somewhat lacking in libraries off of OSX (sigh; and Apple doesn't make any machines that really interest me...) |
| 23:17.43 | *** join/#gsoc Bloodmaker (n=inder@74.195.1.110) |
| 23:17.59 | lh | Ryan52: what is warren's nick? |
| 23:18.19 | SRabbelier | http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/03/26/get-ready-for-java-on-appengine/ |
| 23:18.23 | Ryan52 | lh: warren |
| 23:18.23 | SRabbelier | my my, applause @ techcrunch |
| 23:18.29 | Ryan52 | :) |
| 23:18.30 | SRabbelier | they figured that one out all by themselves? |
| 23:18.30 | *** join/#gsoc miloops (n=miloops@host.190.15.202.22.static.itcsa.net) |
| 23:18.39 | SRabbelier | they must have some reaaaaaally intelligent people over there! |
| 23:18.46 | Ryan52 | lh: tho, like I said, he's not online right now. |
| 23:19.03 | *** join/#gsoc SerialNo (n=SerialNo@78.155.59.164) |
| 23:19.39 | *** join/#gsoc mhuot_ (n=mhuot@c-24-118-182-94.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 23:20.11 | *** join/#gsoc p_l (i=plasek@89.248.166.201) |
| 23:22.02 | *** join/#gsoc joeyadams (n=joey@70.151.149.100) |
| 23:22.25 | lh | Ryan52: thanks |
| 23:22.55 | p_l|backup | As for Objective-C, most of 1.0 runtime was rewritten by someone from Etoile project in ~48h... and it's the fastest and leanest runtime available. Then you have much bulkier, heavier etc. GNU, and then giant cow from Apple :P |
| 23:24.22 | *** part/#gsoc pavelo (n=pavelo@cl-300.mbx-01.si.sixxs.net) |
| 23:24.23 | SerialNo | This Link ID is used throughout the site when creating various URL links related to you and content you create. As a result, it may only consist of lower ASCII characters, digits, and underscores. Also, it must be unique and not in use by any other user of the site. |
| 23:24.28 | SerialNo | stiill need help |
| 23:24.50 | SerialNo | i need en examle |
| 23:25.36 | SerialNo | in mu language "link"=http//.... |
| 23:25.56 | thiagoss | SerialNo that's a unique name for you through your data on the site |
| 23:26.14 | SRabbelier | wonders if SerialNo will ever learn |
| 23:26.15 | SerialNo | give me an examle |
| 23:26.17 | thiagoss | somewhat similiar to a login, or a nick here at irc |
| 23:26.22 | apinto | !timeline |
| 23:26.22 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/timeline |
| 23:26.24 | SRabbelier | SerialNo: read the documentation |
| 23:26.27 | SRabbelier | SerialNo: it has an example |
| 23:29.18 | *** join/#gsoc RT|Chatzilla (n=rt@reactos/tester/RT) |
| 23:30.31 | ojwb | think of it as a GSoC entrance test |
| 23:30.56 | ojwb | if you're unable to compose an identifier fulfilling those requirements, programming will be a real challenge in most languages |
| 23:30.57 | SRabbelier | ojwb: thank you |
| 23:31.02 | *** kick/#gsoc [SerialNo!n=SRabbeli@ip138-114-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] by SRabbelier (SRabbelier) |
| 23:31.05 | SRabbelier | well there you go |
| 23:31.12 | *** join/#gsoc MaxMmm (n=MaxM@m430436d0.tmodns.net) |
| 23:31.47 | dhoclone_plan9 | headdesks |
| 23:31.52 | dhoclone_plan9 | Is it really that difficult? |
| 23:31.59 | SRabbelier | dhoclone_plan9: apparently |
| 23:32.06 | SRabbelier | dhoclone_plan9: reading is an advanced skill you know |
| 23:32.10 | dhoclone_plan9 | p_l|backup: I still need to get my shit together with Etoile |
| 23:32.14 | dhoclone_plan9 | SRabbelier: Oh yeah, I forgot. |
| 23:32.18 | *** join/#gsoc SerialNo (n=SerialNo@78.155.59.164) |
| 23:32.19 | SRabbelier | dhoclone_plan9: involves using quite a few brain cells |
| 23:32.19 | ojwb | the name "link id" is a bit obscure maybe, but it does very clearly say what the format needs to be |
| 23:32.53 | SRabbelier | ojwb: it does, and there is an example in the userguide |
| 23:32.57 | ojwb | ok |
| 23:33.10 | ojwb | and someone even suggested using your irc handle a bit earlier |
| 23:33.18 | SRabbelier | ojwb: yup |
| 23:33.19 | SRabbelier | ojwb: they did |
| 23:33.29 | *** join/#gsoc devilsadvocate (n=devilsad@202.3.77.11) |
| 23:33.32 | ojwb | they must have ... um ... written that bit of the user guide since I read it all carefully |
| 23:33.40 | dhoclone_plan9 | I scratched my head a bit when I saw ``link id'' |
| 23:33.49 | SRabbelier | ojwb: search for "leslie hawthorn" |
| 23:33.56 | dhoclone_plan9 | But it's not like there was no context. |
| 23:33.59 | ojwb | found her! |
| 23:34.12 | SRabbelier | ojwb: ;) |
| 23:34.17 | *** join/#gsoc Mathiasdm (n=mathias@vpnr061.ugent.be) |
| 23:34.19 | SRabbelier | ojwb: including the example/ |
| 23:34.20 | SRabbelier | ? |
| 23:34.32 | SRabbelier | ffs |
| 23:34.38 | *** kick/#gsoc [SerialNo!n=SRabbeli@ip138-114-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] by SRabbelier (and stay out) |
| 23:34.48 | SRabbelier | danderson: how does that banstick work again? |
| 23:34.52 | *** part/#gsoc ben_AU (n=user@123-243-126-84.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 23:35.18 | scorche | o_O |
| 23:35.31 | ojwb | I think that is actually new |
| 23:35.40 | ojwb | anyway |
| 23:35.43 | SRabbelier | ojwb: quite possibly |
| 23:36.05 | SRabbelier | ojwb: the document is updated if it's unclear |
| 23:36.08 | *** join/#gsoc SpellWeaver (n=virus@203.199.213.3) |
| 23:36.22 | ojwb | I wish our mentor "ls84kfutrhjdkgirh" had read that |
| 23:36.30 | ojwb | (seriously) |
| 23:36.37 | scorche | O_o |
| 23:36.47 | SRabbelier | ojwb: lolol, epic fail :P |
| 23:36.55 | ojwb | well, it's unlikely to clash at least |
| 23:36.56 | *** join/#gsoc ultrasonic (n=manohar@203.199.213.3) |
| 23:36.57 | SRabbelier | scorche: how about 0_o? |
| 23:37.00 | *** join/#gsoc pygi (n=pygi@193.198.163.134) |
| 23:37.02 | SRabbelier | ojwb: true that |
| 23:37.11 | ojwb | "oh, you're the other ls84kfutrhjdkgirh" |
| 23:37.11 | scorche | my eyes dont squint that way |
| 23:37.18 | p_l | ojwb: so.. how one should report such id in writing? |
| 23:37.27 | p_l | s/writing/speech/ |
| 23:37.32 | SRabbelier | ojwb: LOL! :P |
| 23:37.33 | ojwb | we call him/her ls84k for short |
| 23:37.45 | p_l | Lima Sierra 84Kilo Foxtrot Uniform Tango Romeo Hotel Juliett Delta Kilo Golf India Romeo Hotel |
| 23:37.47 | p_l | ? |
| 23:37.48 | SRabbelier | ojwb: lolol |
| 23:37.50 | SRabbelier | ojwb: hilarious |
| 23:38.02 | ojwb | I bet it turns out that is their real name, and I've just insulted some random culture |
| 23:38.29 | SRabbelier | ojwb: dude, you're on a roll :P |
| 23:38.30 | p_l | Lima Romeo Hotel would be a quite correct abbreviation too :P |
| 23:38.41 | SRabbelier | is laughing out loud, trying not to be too loud :P |
| 23:39.27 | ojwb | well, I'm out of material |
| 23:39.37 | ojwb | but come back, I'm here all week |
| 23:39.39 | *** join/#gsoc Bloodmaker_ (n=inder@74.195.1.110) |
| 23:39.42 | pygi | thinks SRabbelier is mucho loco today |
| 23:39.49 | dhoclone_plan9 | Tip your waitress, try the veal, etc etc |
| 23:39.53 | SRabbelier | pygi: :( |
| 23:40.04 | ojwb | it's veal-y good! |
| 23:40.14 | SRabbelier | ojwb: xD bad pun |
| 23:40.16 | ojwb | see, I said I was out of material |
| 23:40.32 | SRabbelier | ojwb: you were right :P |
| 23:43.32 | p_l | hmm... tommorrow I'm flying home... and today @12 UTC I have to turn the java project in... >_> |
| 23:43.49 | SRabbelier | p_l: tight planning you got there |
| 23:44.32 | p_l | SRabbelier: and >24h since last sleep |
| 23:45.04 | SRabbelier | p_l: sweet, you're going downnnnnn :P |
| 23:45.33 | danderson | SRabbelier: /ban nick, before kicking them |
| 23:45.39 | danderson | a decent irc client will set the right banmask |
| 23:45.46 | SRabbelier | danderson: hehe |
| 23:45.48 | SRabbelier | danderson: fair enough |
| 23:45.52 | danderson | don't do it until he comes back though |
| 23:45.56 | danderson | banmask lists aren't infinite |
| 23:45.59 | p_l | SRabbelier: thankfully this time I've got afternoon flight :P |
| 23:46.07 | danderson | and #gsoc's list has filled up before |
| 23:46.12 | SRabbelier | danderson: seriously? |
| 23:46.16 | danderson | yeah |
| 23:46.22 | danderson | it saturates at 30 or 40, or so. |
| 23:46.29 | SRabbelier | danderson: ouch, that bites |
| 23:46.36 | SRabbelier | danderson: can we kindly ask for more? :P |
| 23:46.42 | danderson | probably not |
| 23:47.05 | scorche | you *can*, but it isnt realyl necessary |
| 23:47.10 | danderson | I'm guessing it's just a performance issue overall, and given the average quality of IRC service daemons, I'm guessing it's hard-coded somewhere |
| 23:47.21 | danderson | but as scorche says, usually it's not necessary |
| 23:47.31 | danderson | the "You are banned" message usually results in people never returning |
| 23:47.40 | danderson | leave the ban for a week or so, then it can usually be safely removed |
| 23:47.50 | SRabbelier | danderson: hehe, nice, :P |
| 23:47.56 | scorche | +L is the mode that grants a larget list |
| 23:48.24 | *** join/#gsoc MaxMmm (n=MaxM@m330436d0.tmodns.net) |
| 23:48.29 | SRabbelier | scorche: oh? what's keeping people from not turning it always on? |
| 23:48.48 | scorche | only staffers can enable it |
| 23:49.39 | p_l | would love if universities actually made workshops on how to code as a group before making people do group projects |
| 23:50.03 | SRabbelier | scorche: heh, I'm sure we have enough influence that we could convince one to turn it on :P |
| 23:50.14 | scorche | SRabbelier: sure...but it isnt needed |
| 23:50.29 | SRabbelier | scorche: but it's more fun to be speeeecial! |
| 23:50.36 | *** join/#gsoc MaxMmm (n=MaxM@wsip-98-173-48-39.sd.sd.cox.net) |
| 23:50.41 | scorche | meh |
| 23:52.28 | *** join/#gsoc SerialNo (n=SerialNo@78.155.59.164) |
| 23:53.30 | z4chh | what's up with this html editor? i write the code how i want it..and it changes it >.> |
| 23:54.09 | mmu_man | Dreamripper ? :) |
| 23:54.22 | SRabbelier | z4chh: it likes to fsck with you? |
| 23:54.23 | *** join/#gsoc sid0 (n=sid0@unaffiliated/sid0) |
| 23:54.25 | mmu_man | I tried Amaya the other day but it seemed buggy |
| 23:54.29 | SRabbelier | z4chh: you refer to TinyMCE I assume? |
| 23:54.31 | mmu_man | but maybe it was just GTK |
| 23:54.37 | SRabbelier | z4chh: or not gsoc related? |
| 23:54.46 | z4chh | SRabbelier, the html editor for submitting forms |
| 23:54.48 | z4chh | err |
| 23:54.50 | z4chh | proposals* |
| 23:54.54 | ojwb | that's tinymce |
| 23:54.57 | SRabbelier | z4chh: right, TinyMCe it is |
| 23:55.03 | p_l | btw, the coolest thing you can show during serious outage due to sudden server move: show live feed of admins doing the move :) |
| 23:55.06 | SRabbelier | z4chh: few things going on there |
| 23:55.06 | z4chh | ahh ok |
| 23:55.07 | *** join/#gsoc [1]Evan (n=EvanKros@c-98-203-5-20.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 23:55.20 | z4chh | it is a pain in the butt getting the formatting right.. |
| 23:55.20 | *** join/#gsoc chandlerc[g] (n=chandler@nat/google/x-084983e8edbe3ee6) |
| 23:55.21 | *** mode/#gsoc [+o chandlerc[g]] by ChanServ |
| 23:55.22 | SRabbelier | z4chh: we have feedparser santize the html |
| 23:55.24 | *** join/#gsoc dannyb (n=dannyb@c-69-139-146-16.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 23:55.24 | *** mode/#gsoc [+o dannyb] by ChanServ |
| 23:55.37 | SRabbelier | z4chh: and tinymce also has some funky stuff it does with the html |
| 23:55.43 | z4chh | yes o_o |
| 23:55.43 | *** part/#gsoc ywu (n=ywu@124-171-97-231.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 23:55.48 | SRabbelier | z4chh: so 1 + 1 ~= 42 |
| 23:56.03 | z4chh | why cant it just leave it aline :\ ...i write nice xhtml, and it screws everything up |
| 23:56.12 | z4chh | alone* |
| 23:56.26 | SRabbelier | z4chh: well, you can |
| 23:56.30 | SRabbelier | z4chh: turn it off with NoScript :P |
| 23:56.39 | z4chh | what do you mean? |
| 23:57.05 | SRabbelier | z4chh: tinymce = javascript |
| 23:57.10 | SRabbelier | z4chh: turn of javascript, byebye tinymce? |
| 23:57.37 | z4chh | hmmm |
| 23:57.42 | z4chh | ill try that |
| 23:57.55 | z4chh | one thing really missing is a preview function |
| 23:58.53 | SRabbelier | z4chh: issue on file for that |
| 23:59.08 | SRabbelier | z4chh: if you see Lennie online, ask him to "write a preview function in Scheme" |
| 23:59.09 | z4chh | good |
| 23:59.15 | SRabbelier | z4chh: he'll run away screaming ;) |
