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| 00:08.38 | *** topic/#gpe is The GPE Palmtop Environment - http://gpe.handhelds.org/ | GPE Wiki: http://handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/GPEProject | Development Manual (in progress): http://www.kernelconcepts.de/~fuchs/gpe/doc/devmanual/ | GPE 2.7 released! | Sorry for the loud discussions going on here ;) |
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| 06:03.29 | lamikr | RP: Thanks for pointing the patch, that could be one good option. Do you know how "should" the userspace get the vetoable suspend event from the kernel in this case. |
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| 07:12.01 | RP | lamikr: It should come via apm - the kernel side code isn't complete thought |
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| 13:20.31 | florian | hi all |
| 13:20.47 | mmp | hi florian :) |
| 13:20.49 | Philippe | hi florian |
| 13:21.57 | Philippe | florian: well we only said hello :-) |
| 13:22.18 | florian | Philippe: i'm happy with that :-) |
| 13:23.50 | Philippe | florian: anyway disagreements do not make people evil... |
| 13:24.58 | florian | Philippe: true, the way how this discussion is going on makes me sad. i didn't expect that it would go on like that. |
| 13:26.24 | florian | i was short before giving up on gpe at all |
| 13:28.07 | mmp | florian: :-( |
| 13:28.37 | Philippe | well we'll just have to find something that is acceptable to most. |
| 13:29.26 | mmp | (if I can ask... I don't want to start any flame now) How did it all begin? |
| 13:30.03 | florian | mmp: don't worry, i spent them majour share of nights in my past four years with gpe and related projects... so there is no way for me to give up that fast :-) |
| 13:31.28 | florian | mmp: as long i'm the only one who tlks there is no danger |
| 13:32.08 | mmp | :-) |
| 13:32.55 | mmp | btw, I (finally) managed to build NM package; now I'm just finishing some scripts for it... |
| 13:33.45 | mmp | but I still don't understand why libtools puts -L/usr/lib to gcc when relinking... . I had to use oe_libinstall ... |
| 13:34.25 | florian | It started about at the time i started to work on gpe... a time where server hosting was expensive. I can remember Nils and me wanted to start a project that hosts a community platform for development... but not like sourceforge or hh.org. |
| 13:35.23 | florian | We wanted to have community people setting up and administrating the platform itself too. |
| 13:36.09 | florian | Now that machines and bandwidth are cheap we started such a project in spring. |
| 13:38.42 | florian | Of course Nils and i want to see GPE on that platform... |
| 13:39.43 | mmp | but then, why do other people want it to stay here? For them, it should not be a difference whether they use hh.org, or ltg... |
| 13:41.23 | florian | Because of some unpleasant things going on (Koen might want to comment) we didn't want to start a public discussion but that was a bad i dea obviously. |
| 13:43.09 | florian | Now Nils started after things were more or less expected to work (from a technical point of view)... we were pretty sure that it is a good idea and not a big problem at all. |
| 13:44.36 | florian | mmp: in theory yes - the thing people complain about is that we didn't involve other contributors at the right time. |
| 13:44.41 | florian | that's a fact |
| 13:45.44 | florian | The most common argument is that LTG is currently payed by kernel concepts - Nils' company. |
| 13:46.01 | mmp | not very nice to see fights inside opensource projects:-( |
| 13:46.53 | florian | people don't seem to be able to believe that ltg is independent |
| 13:47.00 | mmp | hmm, and possible moving the ownership to some other person? Maybe this would make it more feasible... |
| 13:47.51 | florian | mmp: yes, but it seems to happen even in the open source community quite frequently. i can imgine there were similar problems in the gimp project e.g. |
| 13:49.48 | florian | mmp: sure - there is even a note on the website about that this is desired - but there are no volunteers so far. |
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| 13:51.25 | florian | Philippe: i'm pretty much convinced that it is less emotional that it looks - it the very common struggeling about competence, power and maybe even money |
| 13:52.33 | florian | I wonder if someone had complained if we sugeested movin to sourceforge... thats a commercial thing iirc. |
| 13:53.40 | Philippe | we could invite reenoo and france to join that foundation if it would make them feel better about this. |
| 13:53.56 | florian | Philippe: yeah, we discussed about this - we have more people who volunteered sponsoring the machine pb__ e.g. |
| 13:54.42 | florian | Philippe: but we didn't manage to find people who want to do the |
| 13:55.07 | reenoo | it's pretty difficult to talk about the other side of the story since much of it went through non-public channels |
| 13:55.28 | florian | administrative work for that, at least here it would be quite some effort. |
| 13:55.36 | florian | but definitly a good idea |
| 13:56.42 | Philippe | reenoo: well it might be time to make it public then, so that people can get the complete picture? |
| 13:57.31 | reenoo | Philippe: I'm not going to do you that favour after Nils' screaming even though George didn't make anything public |
| 13:58.30 | Philippe | reenoo: as I understood it Nils was apologizing himself for making things public, not the other way round. |
| 14:02.00 | reenoo | Philippe: quoting Nils in response to George: "If I wanted to post the mail I wrote to you publically I would have done it."; George however did not make any private mail public |
| 14:02.55 | florian | yeah, that was not that clever... but my fault, i mixed up somethign |
| 14:04.36 | Philippe | anyway my opinion is that we should try to avoid blaming and hurting people's feelings and try to restart all this with a clean slate. Infighting is not going to be good to any of us. |
| 14:06.25 | Philippe | especially to devs who have nothing to do with any problems/misunderstandings etc there are between the two other parties involved. |
| 14:09.37 | florian | hmm yes |
| 14:10.02 | florian | the major problem seems to be people don't trust each other |
| 14:11.03 | reenoo | florian: you're not making it easy to trust you, are you? I mean, it all comes out after the fact... |
| 14:12.07 | reenoo | florian: not long ago you were complaining like crazy about a lack of transparency wrt handhelds.org, and now all this? |
| 14:12.49 | florian | reenoo: Well.. lets say it in this way - we maybe didn't behave that clever this time but you might google for a short summary what we did before. |
| 14:13.54 | florian | reenoo: oh, i still do - speaking for myself. Even worse for Familiar as you - the maintainer - told me that you had no idea how things are decided. |
| 14:14.46 | Philippe | reenoo: this hostility is not going to get us anywhere... There were mistakes made, now we should skip over to the part to fix them. And florian, the pot and kettle story is not going to help either. |
| 14:15.22 | reenoo | florian: I never said anything like that. I said nothing had been decided wrt Familiar 0.9 |
| 14:15.58 | florian | reenoo: in fact i consider ltg to be freedom and that is not the kind of freedom politican speak of and not the freedom you get with a free beer |
| 14:16.30 | florian | reenoo: you said this, to me, in german... |
| 14:17.03 | florian | in a private chat about five monts ago |
| 14:19.08 | florian | reenoo: but what me really makes sad is how you go on with me. i see you and koen don't like each other but i don't see why i earned this hostile behaviour. |
| 14:19.43 | florian | (in fact i can imagine why france doesn't liek me, but i think we are able to speak with each other in a normal way) |
| 14:24.42 | reenoo | florian: please stop misciting private communication. you don't want others to make private communication public either |
| 14:25.55 | florian | reenoo: that's true, sorry - but you forced me to do so. |
| 14:34.43 | reenoo | florian: I don't know where all this "you show hostile behaviour" comes from. I'm not the only one who thinks this smells fishy, I just happen to publically express my opinion |
| 14:36.58 | florian | reenoo: i know france thinks the same, but who else? |
| 14:39.08 | reenoo | florian: check the #oe logs of yesterday. you may remember a conversation you had with mallum |
| 14:39.46 | florian | reenoo: i remeber, that was about the time i got really angry. |
| 14:42.32 | reenoo | florian: at the end of the day, I'm just asking question and bringing up details that you had not made public. the response to that is a lot of screaming and getting personal from your side. yet I am accused of being hostile |
| 14:42.48 | reenoo | florian: I fail to understand that |
| 14:44.09 | florian | reenoo: i fail to understand what you want to prove |
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| 14:50.40 | florian_ | this laptop is _unstable_ :-/ |
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| 15:17.34 | lamikr | Hi Philippe |
| 15:17.40 | lamikr | and florian |
| 15:17.51 | lamikr | and PB |
| 15:18.19 | florian | hi lamikr |
| 15:19.39 | lamikr | florian: Anything interesting going on? |
| 15:20.08 | florian | lamikr: apart from some very unpleasant discussions... yes |
| 15:20.23 | Philippe | hi lamikr |
| 15:20.43 | florian | i work on a fbpanel based panel app for gpe and website updates. |
| 15:20.56 | lamikr | Philippe: it's being long time, how has your summer went? |
| 15:21.24 | florian | oh btw, i managed to convert the gpe cvs to a subversion repository... that might be something we want to test. |
| 15:21.36 | florian | quite some people mentioned that would be a good idea. |
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| 15:22.49 | Philippe | lamikr: indeed some pitka aikä. Summer went very well! A bit too well, way too much partying and festivals. Virtually no coding. |
| 15:23.14 | lamikr | florian: At least I favor subversion over cvs. Another good one is git, I think familiar 084 with git works much better than earlier with monotone. No more version problems. |
| 15:23.45 | florian | lamikr: ok, noted :-) |
| 15:24.05 | florian | i'd prefer svn because it is similar to use |
| 15:24.25 | Philippe | cvs to svn imports are also better tested. |
| 15:24.40 | florian | i dislike bith git and montone, but i must say that monotone is much better than previous releases |
| 15:24.57 | Philippe | anyway before any move I would like to see some issues resolved first. |
| 15:25.18 | florian | i'll try to make a public repository for testing... |
| 15:25.36 | florian | Philippe: hmm... sorting the base directory? ;) |
| 15:25.41 | lamikr | Yes, maybe the git is better for the projects like gpe containing multiple apps because with subversion you do not need to download all of them. |
| 15:26.15 | Philippe | florian: well I still volunteer to sort that stuff out. |
| 15:26.16 | lamikr | With git it is always "download whole repository" if you want to make commits. |
| 15:27.05 | Philippe | lamikr: I find git also eats too much disk space. I know disk space is cheap these days, but I prefer to fill up my disks with other data. |
| 15:27.10 | florian | yeah, the whole svn tree is quite big... > 8000 commits |
| 15:27.38 | lamikr | but for things like kernel where is one main repository and then special repositories like "omap", git works much better for merging and tracking the changes than cvs/svn approach. |
| 15:27.49 | florian | Philippe: well... in fact we could du that with svn more easily or... with "mv" before converting. |
| 15:28.31 | Philippe | svn mv afterwards would keep history tracking more consistent. |
| 15:29.41 | lamikr | hmm, reading my own text and noticed speaking nonsense. I meant: maybe the svn is better for the gpe like of projects... |
| 15:29.43 | florian | that's true |
| 15:30.24 | lamikr | Philippe: svn mv? |
| 15:30.47 | Philippe | lamikr: idd. svn has a mv command. One of the major improvements over cvs |
| 15:36.25 | lamikr | Philippe: Might be... I use trunk / branches concept recommended by the subversion docs, but I work usually via eclipse svn plugin, so usually commands like "mv" or commit are hide for the bacground for me... In eclipse those terms are "branch" and merge... |
| 15:36.44 | lamikr | or rename or move. |
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| 15:39.26 | Philippe | lamikr: mv == move (just like in the shell) |
| 15:48.40 | Philippe | lamikr: well uni did everything they could to get me completely disgusted with Java. Of course having to use borland tools on windows NT did not help. But the inherent brokeness of the language become all to clear. Especially when we got to networking. I never managed (like 85% of my class) to get the networking to work in several hours. And when I tried to so-called really difficult and hard socket programming in C I had it working in 15 minutes. |
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| 15:56.02 | lamikr | Yes, it of course differs. I am just wondering what kind of things you tried to do with networking because basic client/server tcp/ip and udp socket programming is really easy also with Java. A place where People used to have problems Java used to have problems were high traffic server sides with really lot of hits, because java server used require small blocking time for every connection... |
| 15:56.03 | lamikr | ...establishment. Earlier java server vendors worked out that problem by implementing a small part of the server in c and calling that from java, but nowadays java has classes in nio package that can do asynchornous io. |
| 16:02.44 | Philippe | lamikr: well it was the basic client/server tcp/ip or udp stuff. No way to get it to work. |
| 16:06.08 | lamikr | Ok, then your teacher really made the best for trying you to hate java. :-) |
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| 18:02.13 | mmp | Finally! Resistance was futile, NetworkManager was assimilated! |
| 18:02.16 | mmp | err, packaged:) |
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| 19:08.34 | france | hello |
| 19:08.36 | france | reenoo|afk: hi |
| 19:08.40 | france | Philippe: hi |
| 19:08.44 | france | mmp: hi |
| 19:08.58 | mmp | france: hello:) |
| 19:09.01 | reenoo | hey france |
| 19:09.02 | france | arg, florian vanished.... |
| 19:09.18 | france | no he will say, that I did not say hi to him. :-( |
| 19:09.28 | france | s/no/now/ |
| 19:11.32 | mmp | france: I think that you are in different timezone, so (I guess) it should be ok:) |
| 19:14.14 | emte | lol |
| 19:14.43 | emte | while you are here france, there problems with the mailing list again? |
| 19:14.49 | emte | are * |
| 19:15.06 | france | checking...... |
| 19:15.13 | emte | it keeps sending me ractivation strings but none of tehm work |
| 19:15.21 | emte | reactivation* |
| 19:16.18 | france | can you forward me a copy? france@handhelds.org |
| 19:16.25 | emte | sure, sec |
| 19:16.50 | emte | long headers i assume? |
| 19:17.20 | france | please..... |
| 19:17.38 | emte | i should just create an account that has no spam/virii filtering so the list stops thinking i am rejecting emails |
| 19:18.05 | france | emte: next week we have a new box for e-mail.... |
| 19:18.28 | france | emte: I hope it has enough cpu power to filter the hh.org user e-mail along with the mailing lists. |
| 19:19.10 | france | emte: is should help...the biggest problem is we get thousands of bounces that were never sent from hh.org every hour. |
| 19:19.25 | emte | yeah i know |
| 19:20.06 | emte | but the mail server blacklists me because my filters return spam/virri warnings |
| 19:20.44 | france | just drop the ones from the mailing lists instead of sending them back? |
| 19:21.12 | emte | i would if i controlled the server |
| 19:21.20 | emte | all i can select is to filter or not |
| 19:21.24 | france | ahh, that is always a problem. |
| 19:22.01 | france | the other problem is that we needed a better mail decoder amavis just is not doing it, most of the spam that gets through is encoded in a way that spamassasin or clamav misses it. |
| 19:22.43 | emte | you try contacting sophos or any others for a non-profit version? |
| 19:23.38 | france | emte: I have not...OSLOSU is in the process of setting up 5 such filters and have offered to filter all the hh.org e-mail. |
| 19:27.11 | emte | ah |
| 19:27.41 | emte | yeah they should have enterprise level equipt/software for the issue |
| 19:30.41 | france | emte: it is being installed. |
| 19:31.11 | france | emte: recieved your e-mail..checking through the logs.... |
| 19:32.50 | emte | lol |
| 19:33.09 | emte | sounds like you need to look at your quota settings :) |
| 19:33.36 | france | the history of hh.org is that I have always trusted people to do the right thing. This was my error... |
| 19:34.01 | france | it is what allowed koen to run amuck and created the familiar issue, the same is probably true for the gpe issue. |
| 19:34.06 | emte | quota is still good practice in production ... runaway logs etc |
| 19:34.15 | france | I just like to trust people unless proved other wise. |
| 19:35.04 | emte | but yeah its always a delema when enforcing boundaries on users |
| 19:35.19 | emte | which reminds me |
| 19:35.26 | emte | the dev clusters back up yet? |
| 19:35.27 | france | the bottom line is tht koen and florian are friends... koen vowed to destroy handhelds.org by moving all the proects to another site. florian is helping... |
| 19:35.50 | france | emte: I am going to have to fly from boston to portland to set it up. |
| 19:35.56 | france | and I just do not feel like it. |
| 19:36.02 | emte | :( |
| 19:36.04 | france | I should go in the next few weeks. |
| 19:36.06 | mmp | france: would they destroy handhelds.org with it? |
| 19:36.21 | mmp | I'm just curious, don't want to start any flame |
| 19:36.33 | mmp | if it would, please don't reply:) |
| 19:36.39 | emte | it would |
| 19:36.43 | france | but why shoudl I spend my time and money flying to portland, to setup something just to be hassled and flamed for it. |
| 19:36.54 | mmp | :-( |
| 19:36.56 | france | mmp: lol |
| 19:37.14 | france | mmp: it does not matter what I say or not say... I will get flamed for it...so go a head.. |
| 19:37.23 | emte | i only know one buddy in portland and he is probably not the guy to help |
| 19:37.31 | emte | bit rusty i think |
| 19:37.47 | emte | altho ... |
| 19:37.57 | emte | i've another in redmond ... |
| 19:38.10 | france | mmp: that is koens publicly stated intent to destroy handhelds.org |
| 19:38.25 | mmp | france: I don't think so; from what I have read today by idling here, it seems that florian is open to suggestion and he does not want to do anything wrong to hh.org nor anything else |
| 19:38.50 | france | mmp: public opinion is against him.. he is back peddling today. |
| 19:38.57 | mmp | as far as I understand, florian only would like to migrate gpe |
| 19:39.21 | mmp | <disclaimer> this is how I understand it, YMMV</disclaimer> |
| 19:39.32 | emte | mmp, is that not the same thing? |
| 19:39.33 | france | mmp: you missed the familiar/angstrom/oe incedient about six months ago..this is just a minor skirmish taht is part of a bigger problem. |
| 19:40.01 | france | the good news it that things are getting settled out... |
| 19:40.06 | emte | which reminds me, i read a funny commit the other day |
| 19:40.08 | mmp | emte: I don't think so, GPE is just part of handhelds.org; there are much more projects... |
| 19:40.20 | mmp | err, many more |
| 19:40.38 | emte | it seems the angstrom crew has adapted scratchbox to work with OE/bitbake |
| 19:41.28 | mmp | france: yes... . |
| 19:42.02 | emte | i've been curious |
| 19:42.24 | emte | who is paying for the "OE/angstrom" servers |
| 19:42.44 | france | emte: it is the same ip as the linux-to-go site. |
| 19:42.57 | france | emte: so it must be florian and nils at kernel concepts... |
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| 19:43.10 | france | emte: it is hosted in germany and should have an imprint statement on it. |
| 19:43.20 | emte | yeah i know its in germany |
| 19:43.44 | emte | i am just wondering how much they will enjoy paying for the extra BW that is the mailinglist |
| 19:43.50 | france | emte: I am still hosting the oe and angstrom mailing lists on hh.org. I am probably being too nice again. |
| 19:44.04 | emte | there is a statement that tehy are being moved |
| 19:44.29 | emte | you not get that one? |
| 19:45.15 | france | emte: I did not see that... can you guild me? |
| 19:45.21 | france | s/guild/guide/ |
| 19:45.39 | france | emte: the spelling checker is helping me again. |
| 19:46.21 | emte | 06/07/30 from Mickey: ANN monotone.vanille.de closed / mailing list will move |
| 19:46.39 | Philippe | hi france ! |
| 19:46.57 | france | Philippe: hi |
| 19:47.07 | emte | if you want a fwd let me know |
| 19:47.43 | france | emte: no need, for some reason the linux-to-go site is not yet setup for e-mail... |
| 19:48.01 | france | emte: RP asked yesterday if hh.org could still host the mailing lists or a while longer... |
| 19:48.22 | france | Philippe: take your time... catch up...I have about an hour before I have to head out |
| 19:50.12 | Philippe | france: oh well seems to be the GPE moving issue. That was kind of expected. |
| 19:53.59 | france | Philippe: not really. I expected more from Nils. I thought he was of good character. |
| 19:57.05 | Philippe | france: well I do not get the feeling they are up to destroy handhelds as you say... |
| 19:57.08 | emte | in the long term charachters fray |
| 19:57.28 | Philippe | Of course I do understand that it will have some impact on handhelds. |
| 19:57.48 | emte | Philippe, that was a koen quote |
| 19:58.31 | Philippe | emte: ok could be, but I have never seen, read or heard such a statement of koen. |
| 19:58.31 | emte | i am sure florian is not trying to, or is not aware of it himself |
| 19:58.46 | emte | i might have it in my logs somewhere |
| 19:58.53 | france | Philippe: you missed a lot of history... this has been going on for over six months. |
| 19:59.19 | france | Philippe: florian is koens friend and partner.. they do everything together.. |
| 19:59.20 | emte | only six? seems like years |
| 19:59.28 | Philippe | france: I do know about the whole familiar thing. I spoke to Koen about this at Fosdem. Don't have the details though. |
| 19:59.30 | france | I know... |
| 19:59.48 | france | Philippe: was he bad mouthing me or hh.org? |
| 20:00.01 | emte | there are very jaded views on the whole issue ... on both sides |
| 20:00.35 | emte | well more like all dozen sides |
| 20:01.05 | emte | originally it was project oriented, then it was pushed personal |
| 20:01.11 | Philippe | france: to be honest he bad mouthed nobody as such. But he made clear he did not like the way how certain things had been handled. |
| 20:02.36 | emte | hmm, by reading back it will be interesting to see how LTG pans out |
| 20:02.45 | emte | since they have no volunteers |
| 20:03.16 | france | emte: it is the uglyness, fear and upset.. that i see as the bigger problem. |
| 20:03.29 | emte | nah, its all ego |
| 20:03.45 | emte | and some pride |
| 20:04.28 | emte | the longer it goes on the more about ego it becomes |
| 20:05.56 | france | nah, I checked 90% of that at the door....the folks that know all the details have commented that i have been extremely calm |
| 20:06.17 | emte | all your decisions have been logial |
| 20:06.24 | emte | logical* |
| 20:06.54 | emte | even legally validated |
| 20:07.25 | emte | its the stuff on a personal level that is the issue in the end |
| 20:08.05 | emte | hh.o is more of a blanket scapegoat for the issue now |
| 20:08.24 | emte | rather than part of the actuall issue |
| 20:08.56 | emte | from an outside perspective anyway |
| 20:13.48 | emte | outside of the shadowing issue, everyone hopes open source projects make the best decisions |
| 20:14.13 | emte | if they feel they need to move to make this happen, then so be it |
| 20:15.38 | emte | on the otherhand ( in canada atleast ), if developers are setting up a company and need a non-profit tax deduction to help, it makes sense to move an established project onto it |
| 20:15.53 | emte | one can only hope that they succeed in thier business venture |
| 20:17.11 | emte | lol |
| 20:17.20 | Philippe | catch you later people |
| 20:17.36 | lamikr | see you philippe |
| 20:17.42 | emte | have funn |
| 20:22.35 | lamikr | france: One thing I have always wondered is who are the funding people behind the handhelds.org or openembedded.org? I know that compaq propably put earlier the funding to some projects but what about now? |
| 20:23.07 | france | lamikr: I am one of the founders of handhelds.org in 1999. In 2003 compaq dropped the project. |
| 20:23.16 | france | since that time it has been soley funded by me. |
| 20:23.37 | france | as when the project was dropped so was the budget/funding. |
| 20:24.27 | france | I did how ever get compaq's research labs to continue to provide bandwidth, which worked out well since I had an office there. |
| 20:24.39 | france | OE until very recently was hosted by handhelds.org |
| 20:24.52 | france | now it is hosted by linux-to-go |
| 20:25.11 | lamikr | So you worked yourself also in compaq research with jamey? |
| 20:25.19 | france | which is kernelconcepts, which is nils company |
| 20:25.44 | france | jamey's office was across from mine. |
| 20:26.32 | france | if you take the bootldr code everywhere it says Compaq Corp it should say George France, I did the work but compaq legal wanted there name on it, it was their first open source project. |
| 20:27.09 | france | I also did the first distribution for the ipaq, which became familiar. |
| 20:28.02 | france | version 0.1 throught 0.34 was almost exlusiviy done by me. No most of my volunteer time is eaten up doing admin stuff... I rarely ahve time to hack on code anymore. |
| 20:28.13 | lamikr | I was using ipaq 3630 and installed also familiar 0.50 to it, but during that time I was solely a end user/tester. I only started actively keeping attentions to hh again when I wanted to have linux phone 2 years ago and decidec that 6300 is the best way to go on with development. |
| 20:29.12 | france | lamikr: i did a port for the 65xx a while back... I just need to fix bootblaster so folks can use it. I have not had the time and I do not expect most folks will want to solder on jtag wires to use it. |
| 20:30.12 | france | the 69xx is really nice, have you seen it? I wonder if it is available in the usa? |
| 20:30.27 | lamikr | france: Really! nice. Have you been able to get phone or gps module working with it? |
| 20:30.44 | france | lamikr: on the 65xx the phone works great |
| 20:30.51 | france | lamikr: I have not tried the GPS |
| 20:31.01 | lamikr | france: I am not from usa, I am from middle finland. |
| 20:31.13 | france | on the 69xx, I have not yet got one. |
| 20:31.23 | france | I do not think that i will have the time to play with it. |
| 20:31.54 | lamikr | I have forget, does 6500 has 200x200 screen or 320x200? |
| 20:31.59 | france | I was looking through the website and it appears that koen took my name off of many pages. |
| 20:32.07 | france | I need to add stuff back.. |
| 20:32.25 | france | Maybe a "funded by George" sign? :-) |
| 20:33.47 | france | 65xx is 320x240 IIRC |
| 20:35.16 | lamikr | Well, then it is actually in some way nicer than 6900. If I remember correctly: 6500 = 6300 + gps - wifi. 6900 = 6300 + gps - smaller screen. |
| 20:36.17 | france | what I really want is the wifi and phone |
| 20:36.41 | france | so I can do voip over wifi or utilize the phone |
| 20:36.44 | lamikr | france: same here. And suspend. |
| 20:36.46 | emte | yeah that reminds me |
| 20:37.01 | emte | that is what minisip or splayt is about ... |
| 20:37.04 | emte | splat |
| 20:37.10 | france | many times when I go into large buildings the cell phone access gets really bad, but wifi almost always works |
| 20:37.42 | emte | anyway, did you have any plans to drop UDP into the bootloader and maybe offer specific network drivers? |
| 20:38.35 | lamikr | france: I have just got the power button working (it was handled differently than other buttons) and need just to do a small cleaning with various drivers that they works properly after resume. Touschreen for example still dies now after I resume by pressing the power button. |
| 20:38.57 | france | the boodldr needs a clean up and rewrite...I am just out of time...I should probably work on gettng some corporate sponsors for hh.org to get some of this work done. |
| 20:39.14 | emte | you should talk to motorolla ... |
| 20:39.18 | france | lamikr: very nice. Well Done! |
| 20:39.26 | emte | since they recently launched their opensource aspects |
| 20:39.42 | france | emte: good idea...do you know anyone there? |
| 20:39.53 | emte | unfort, no :( |
| 20:40.02 | emte | atleast not that i know of |
| 20:40.07 | france | emte: since I have an office at nokia research labs, they may not be happy with me. |
| 20:40.12 | emte | true |
| 20:40.25 | emte | you try to get nokia sponsor? |
| 20:40.33 | emte | the n770 is pretty open ... |
| 20:42.23 | lamikr | france: Are you Nokias employee or just co-operating with their research lab via some other company or university? |
| 20:43.01 | france | lamikr: I have my own company...we have a cross arrangement. |
| 20:43.21 | france | lamikr: it is similir to the deal that i had with DEC, Compaq and HP at CRL. |
| 20:45.46 | lamikr | france: I think it would actually be good idea to mention somewhere clearly who is funding the project. whether it is you or you are doing it via your company because it makes things to look more open. I remember there were some months (maybe year) ago some problems with registering domain names, and I was thinking should I gave some euros. But it was hard to know whether it was really... |
| 20:45.47 | lamikr | ...needed and to who to give the money. |
| 20:47.55 | france | lamikr: my company gets money from nokia to work on things other than handhelds.org. My company pays me. I put money into handhelds.org, inc's checking account, which is the non-profit that was setup, when hp labs closed, as it was an hp requirement for them to donate the dev cluser and other hardware. |
| 20:48.04 | france | lamikr: you now have the complete chain. |
| 20:49.18 | lamikr | france: Thanks, that clarified the things. |
| 20:50.08 | lamikr | france: About technical issues... How did you find out the jtag pins in 6500? |
| 20:51.11 | france | lamikr: I have / had an NDA with HP, as part of a co-research agreement. |
| 20:51.15 | emte | datasheet and circuit trace? |
| 20:51.24 | france | lamikr: I had an office at hP. |
| 20:53.43 | france | lamikr: I should, add that my company also gets money from amd, intel, avid, tac, etc...(not just a nokia shop) |
| 20:54.27 | lamikr | france: I and husam have tried to identify the jtag pins from the h6300 but as neither of us have much experience from the electricity stuff or soldering (I have for example only used to read physics in university without really touching anything concretely) we had not been very successfull on that. |
| 20:54.40 | lamikr | we have some pics from motherboard: http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/hpipaqh6300pictures?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=img_1928.jpg |
| 20:54.54 | lamikr | or http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/hpipaqh6300pictures?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=img_1929.jpg |
| 20:55.11 | lamikr | http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/hpipaqh6300pictures?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=img_1930.jpg |
| 20:55.19 | lamikr | http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/hpipaqh6300pictures?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=img_1931.jpg |
| 20:56.26 | france | lamikr: I have to figure out how I can do this. I have all the specs, but my NDA with HP is sort of funny with the closure of the research lab in cambridge. I need to get some clarification from the HP folks. |
| 20:59.10 | *** join/#gpe mimecar (n=chatzill@110.Red-81-34-171.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 20:59.12 | mimecar | hi |
| 20:59.22 | emte | ... wasnt someone else looking for the jtag pins on the 6300 a few weeks ago .... and one of them was unconnected under the chip ... |
| 20:59.25 | lamikr | france: ok, the jtag would really be a really great thing. |
| 21:00.34 | lamikr | emte: Are you sure it was 6300? At least h6300-port mailing list has not had any discussion from this? Could you find who was it? |
| 21:01.15 | emte | i am not sure |
| 21:01.22 | emte | its a vague memory |
| 21:01.43 | emte | i only remeber it as i suggested looking for ICP pins |
| 21:05.51 | *** join/#gpe petterhj (n=TESTID@host-81-191-111-34.bluecom.no) |
| 21:06.40 | emte | nope it was a 2032 |
| 21:06.58 | emte | sa1100 chip |
| 21:07.04 | emte | so def not a 6300 |
| 21:07.54 | lamikr | emte: thanks anyway for checking that. |
| 21:08.17 | emte | np |
| 21:11.08 | france | it has been fun chatting with everyone, but I have to run some errands. I will be back in a few hours. |
| 21:11.45 | france | bye bey |
| 21:11.49 | france | s/bey/bye |
| 21:11.49 | mmp | france: bye:) |
| 21:11.49 | emte | have fun |
| 21:11.54 | france | thanks! |
| 21:12.14 | lamikr | bye |
| 21:24.24 | *** join/#gpe JiniDog (n=jini@Vab8f.v.pppool.de) |
| 21:31.04 | mmp | good night:) (at least to folks in timezones nearby:) |
| 21:31.40 | mimecar | mmp: it's 23:31 only |
| 21:31.43 | mimecar | on GMT + 2 |
| 21:31.54 | mmp | :-) |
| 21:31.59 | mmp | that's me:) |
| 21:32.17 | mmp | time to use OSPF protocol to route me to bed:) |
| 21:32.19 | mimecar | it's saturday night :) |
| 21:32.27 | mimecar | ????? |
| 21:32.34 | mmp | Open Shortest Path First:) |
| 21:32.58 | mimecar | xDD |
| 21:33.22 | mmp | mimecar: it is, but I need to learn for some exams I did not manage to do before two months:( |
| 21:33.40 | mimecar | two weeks before exams |
| 21:33.51 | mimecar | the best time to start the study :P |
| 21:34.02 | mmp | well, then it's time |
| 21:34.06 | mimecar | ups |
| 21:34.09 | mimecar | algebra |
| 21:34.12 | mmp | exam is on 31th august:) |
| 21:34.35 | mmp | mimecar: :-) |
| 21:34.54 | mimecar | I ended my exams one year ago |
| 21:35.28 | mmp | uhh, you already finished school? |
| 21:35.34 | mmp | lucky man |
| 21:35.42 | mimecar | university :P |
| 21:35.48 | mmp | university, sorry:) |
| 21:35.53 | mimecar | next september (final project) |
| 21:35.59 | mmp | I took "school" as a more general term |
| 21:36.09 | mimecar | don't worry |
| 21:37.22 | mimecar | interesting |
| 21:39.05 | mmp | :) |
| 21:39.19 | mmp | mimecar: good night:) |
| 21:39.22 | mimecar | but algebra is horrible |
| 21:39.25 | mimecar | night :) |
| 21:39.49 | mmp | algebra is... nice, when viewing from correct perspective. And _only_ from that perspective. :) |
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| 23:06.47 | *** join/#gpe polyonymous_ (i=hacker@pD9538BE5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
